Military Review

Facts and speculations on the course of the operation "Bagration"

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Facts and speculations on the course of the operation "Bagration"



Gomel historians are delicately questioning the well-established version that it was the legendary Marshal Konstantin Rokossovsky in May 1944 who persuaded Stalin and the Supreme Command in the uniquely possible strategic plan for Bagration to liberate Belarus from the Hitlerites (23 June –6 –John –John –June –X –John –June –John –June –X –John –June –June –June-June-June-June 2007 of the year). "The commander of the Belarusian Front 29, let's say, somewhat embellished in his memoirs a personal role in developing the plan of delivering two main attacks on one front, which had never been practiced by Soviet troops before the war," said NVO columnist he was surprised to hear, in particular, from the dean of the Faculty of History of the Gomel State University. Francis Skaryna, Candidate of Historical Sciences Nikolai Mezga. It was unambiguously sounded at the thematic round table held in Gomel during the press tour arranged for Russian journalists last summer by the Standing Committee of the Union State and the National Press Center of the Republic of Belarus with the support of the Russia Today International Information Agency. In general, the organizers and experts quite convincingly disclosed the stated theme, dedicated to the little-known pages of this unprecedented in the world military stories victorious operation. The author of these lines had a chance to visit a number of major memorial sites associated with Bagration, and to see the corresponding memorial sign opened last year, which, according to the projects of its creators, can and should be the germ of a large museum ensemble similar to the Russian Mamayev Kurgan in near Belgorod.

"EXIT TO THINK" ROKOSSOV IS NOT OFFERED?

Indeed, in the community of researchers and in the mass consciousness of lovers of military history, the “picture” from the film epoch “Liberation” (the 3 film “Direction of the Main Strike”, 1970) is firmly established. “It’s unlikely that you’ve thought it all up,” says Stalin to Rokossovsky on May 23 at the Headquarters, following a presentation on how and where to deliver the “difficult but promising success” main attack. - Go to the next room. Think over your offer again. ”

The “Liberation” scenario was written in the days when the newly published memoirs of Rokossovsky's “Soldier's Duty” lay on the shelves of bookstores. And the scene for the screen epic was “borrowed,” apparently from that part of the book, where it was said that the decision taken by the front command about two main strikes, which was unconventional from previous ideas, was “criticized”: “The Supreme Commander and his deputies (by the way, a rather odd mistake: the entire war at Glavkoverha was only one deputy - Marshal Zhukov. - I.P.) insisted on delivering one main attack ... Twice I was offered to go into the next room to think over the proposal Rates After each such “thinking through” it was necessary to defend my decision with a new force. After making sure that I firmly insist on our point of view, Stalin approved the plan of the operation in the form in which we presented it.

“The insistence of the front commander,” he said, “proves that the organization of the offensive was carefully thought out.” And this is a reliable guarantee of success. ”

The first sentence of this statement by Glavkoverha was one-on-one in “Liberation”.

At the above-mentioned round table, the NVO columnist asked the Gomel scientist the question: what grounds are there for him to question the decision on Operation Bagration described by Rokossovsky and reproduced in many publications and documentary films? Say, has the transcript of this discussion been suddenly declassified? And even more to interpret (hint) this “scientific discovery” as “some exaggeration” by the marshal of his role in the operation to liberate Belarus? Why did Rokossovsky need it? In response, Nikolai Mezga referred only to the fact that there were no similar details in the memoirs of some other participants in that meeting. But the main thing, according to him, is that Marshal Zhukov, in his Memoirs and Reflections, clearly indicates that the decision on Bagration was made by Stalin several days before.

Nowhere in the available sources - “NVO” checked this - and indeed there is no information that Glavkoverkh “drove” Rokossovsky from the conference room of the Headquarters to a separate office. But on the other hand, why should they be? After all, the Supreme “offered to think” to one commander of the Belarusian 1, because with a certain riskiness of the plan of operation, it was him who was most responsible for his implementation in the impassable swamps of Polesye. Therefore, it is possible that Rokossovsky remembered more than other commanders whose troops participated in Bagration.

As for Zhukov, specifically “Marshal of Victory” wrote directly: “The version of“ two main attacks ”existing in some military circles on the Belarusian direction by the forces of the 1 of the Belarusian Front, which KK allegedly insisted on. Rokossovsky before the Supreme, is devoid of foundation. Both of these blows, designed by the front, were previously approved by I.V. Stalin still 20 May on the draft of the General Staff, that is, before the arrival of the commander of the 1-Byelorussian Front in the Headquarters. "

Unfortunately, his great-granddaughter, international journalist Ariadna Rokossovskaya, who had joined the press tour, could not participate in the round table in Gomel a day later. She now does a lot to perpetuate the name of her legendary great-grandfather, and I told her about this “extraordinary” view of Gomel historians. Ariadne, who in recent years has been actively working with the archives of her famous ancestor, including the manuscripts of his memoirs, answered, not without irony, that she “could have resisted this slander”.

By the way, at the expert-media seminar, which was later held in Minsk, Ariadne heard the words of gratitude in her address as a representative of the Rokossovsky family from the head of the exposition department of the Belarusian State Museum of the History of the Great Patriotic War Svetlana Pribysh. The fact is that the descendants of the marshal not so long ago donated personal belongings of the commander to the museum - his military tunic and homemade pistol, which he was presented by Belarusian partisans.

The journalist herself attaches great importance to the manuscripts of her famous ancestor, the drafts of his memoirs. She declared to the Belarusian military news agency Vayar that he “wrote everything up to the very last line, by hand, without any literary assistants or secretaries, and signed his notes to the press three days before his death.”

The NVO observer also asked the Belarusian historians, who by and large spoke very gratefully about Konstantin Konstantinovich’s contribution to the liberation of the republic, aren’t they going to perpetuate his name in the Gomel region more meaningfully? Yes, there is a repeatedly painted-repainted bust in the courtyard of the Museum of Military Glory in Gomel; a memorial plaque hangs on a house preserved in the regional center, which once housed a task force of the 1 Belarusian; and named after the commander of the street - on it, in the past Odessa, the front headquarters was located. But - not a single worthy of his commanding talent and personality of the monument. By the way, it is more than surprising that there is no such thing in the whole grateful marshal of Belarus. The remarkable bust of Rokossovsky, a copy of which is demonstrated in the Bobruisk regional museum, is “hidden” in the State Museum of the Great Patriotic War in Minsk. Dean Nikolai Mezga, for some reason extinguishing a little, said that such discussions at the level of city and regional authorities are underway, and it is hoped that a monument to the commander, who brilliantly manifested himself in Operation Bagration, can be created in the coming years. “But it’s too early to talk about specific projects,” he summed up, not without regret.

It is worth noting that in Russia, impressive Rokossovsky monuments (the marshal is mounted on horseback) on the eve of the Victory's 70 anniversary were erected in Moscow and Volgograd. Growth sculptural figure of the commander on a high pedestal towers in Kursk. All this - in addition to numerous busts in various cities of the country, including those that are not connected with his name.

WOODEN BOMBS ON Plywood TANKAM

It is also surprising that, until the summer of last year, there was nothing large-scale monumental in Belarus that would correspond to the scope and results of the strategic operation of the Soviet troops “Bagration” unprecedented in the world military history. At one time, they “did not think out” of meaningful perpetuation of “Bagration” in the Soviet Union. In modern Belarus, they “forgotten” about this also because July 3 celebrates Independence Day in the country, timed to coincide with the liberation of Minsk in 1944 (which cannot but cause some bewilderment: after all, the entire Republic was cleared of the Hitlerites 28 July - this the day the invaders knocked out of Brest).

Here we will not “bore” the reader many times in the literature of various kinds of tsifiryu - the huge number of troops and military means of the opposing sides, the ratio of their losses. We only recall that already on July 17 1944 of the year 57,6 were carried out in Moscow by thousands of German prisoners of war, officers and generals captured in “boilers” near Bobruisk, Vitebsk and Minsk. But on the whole, during the 68 days of the offensive, the whole of Belarus, Eastern Poland and part of the Baltic states were liberated, the German Army Group “Center” was completely destroyed. But it should be said about the spirit of the operation.

- The process of making decisions "Bagration" wore a purely creative, businesslike nature. Thus, the commanders of the 3 Belarussian and

The 1 Baltic Fronts, ”said Colonel Nikolai Buzin, Deputy Chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Belarus, at a media seminar in Minsk. “For example, instead of one, Chernyakhovsky proposed two strikes on Bogushevsk and Orsha directions of the enemy’s defenses, and Baghramian convinced the Stavka that after breaking through, it would be more profitable for his troops to develop an offensive not in the southwest, but in the west direction. Within the framework of the operation, very serious attention was paid to the issues of enemy disinformation. But the same Chernyakhovsky, contrary to all the rules of camouflage, began to designate a false concentration of troops using wooden layouts in precisely those areas where the actual concentration of the attack forces for the offensive was envisaged. The Germans, as a sign that they revealed the plan of our command, several times bombed these areas with wooden bombs. Only after this commander-in-front is advancing his troops to the starting areas for an offensive and delivering unexpected blows to the enemy. During the operation, personnel issues were vividly resolved. When crossing the Berezina River and subsequently unsuccessfully acted 5-I Guards Tank Army. As a result, the army commander General of the Communists was removed from office. In a number of sources, this decision is interpreted as unjustified, since the army could not advance due to the lack of fuel. But when General Solomatin was appointed instead of Rotmistrov, he ordered to collect the remnants of fuel from all tanks and fill them with tanks of 70 – 80 vehicles. The advance units resumed the offensive, while the rest remained to wait for the fuel ...

And now 21 June 2014 of the year on the edge of the field adjacent to the 71 kilometer of the Bobruisk – Mazyr highway, near the village of Rakovichi, Svetlogorsk district, Gomel region, was opened the 7-meter monument. In June, the 1944 th here sloshed and mosquitoes now drained the Bridsky Moss bog, along the “shores” of which stood the troops of the first echelon of General Paul Batov's 65 Army, which launched the 24 June offensive. It was from here that the rapid liberation of the Belarusian lands began, for three years under a more than brutal fascist yoke.


German invaders have long remembered Belarusian roads. 1944 Photo of the Year

- Near this place there are still those same boggy places where soldiers in 1944, during 20 days and nights, secretly built rafts for guns and guts for tank passage; laying of the gatey continued most intensively with the start of hostilities. The warriors themselves overcame the bog in the mokopops (this wicker-woven "second sole" for boots is clearly shown in the movie "Liberation"), dragging garbage with ammunition, food and other necessities to support the troops, told the journalists who arrived at the memorial sign the deputy head of the department ideological work, culture and youth affairs of the Svetlogorsk district executive committee Lyudmila Grabko.

The sculptural composition is crowned with arrows of two strikes directed to the same point. Under them is a wide bronze bas-relief, in the center of which the figures of Konstantin Rokossovsky, Georgy Zhukov, Pavel Batov and Mikhail Panov (commander of the 1st Guards Tank Corps) are recognized. Right and left - the advancing Soviet soldiers, partisans, sailors of the Dnieper flotilla. The granite foot symbolizes the gati, along which through the Polesskie swamps the Soviet tank corps briskly moved west, and then the armies. To the left of this representative memorial pedestal is the heavy Soviet IS-3 tank and the 85-mm D-44 divisional cannon (this is a rather “non-standard” decision by the creators of the memorial, since neither the tank nor the gun took part in the operation by definition: they were launched in production at the very end of the war). In addition, the complex includes a chapel, trenches, dugouts, and gati fragments.

The initiative to perpetuate "Bagration" came from the honorary citizen of Svetlogorsk, the poet Izyaslav Kotlyarov, who in 2010 brought the idea to the provincial authorities, was heard and actively supported. Although, as Konstantin Mishchenko, deputy director for research at the Gomel Regional Museum of Military Glory, told reporters, “skeptical opinions were expressed: say, who will visit an object that stands in an open field — to the nearest 5,2 km?”. However, according to him, “there is a busy highway running there, and, as evidenced by the staff of the Svetlogorsk Museum of Local History, even now many cars stop at the memorial sign, and their passengers are examining the memorial building with some interest.”

Having been on the spot, the author of these lines fully confirms these words of the historian. In addition, Belarus already has two clear precedents - the world-famous Khatyn (54 km from Minsk, in 5 km from the Minsk – Vitebsk highway) and the village of Krasny Bereg (“Khatyn Children's”; in 21 km from Zhlobin, in 3,5 km from the highway Gomel-Minsk). The last memorial, created in the middle of the 2000s, is not yet so widely known. It is dedicated to the memory of children killed by the Nazis in the special camp, where boys and girls (mostly girls) were taken to the drop for the wounded Wehrmacht soldiers. This sadly ensemble, as noted by the guide Alexander Mankiewicz, who answered on the spot to the question of the NVO columnist, hundreds and thousands of people visit the site annually. A detailed report on the Red Coast was published by NVO in 31 No. 2014 for the year.

Meanwhile, the search for funding for "Bagration" was conducted more than one year. The fact that the idea will be embodied in stone and bronze became clear when the expensive project (the Gomel sculptor Valery Kondratenko became the winner of the memorial sign competition) was carried out through the budget of the Union State (70 anniversary of the legendary offensive). The cost of the composition was estimated at 42 million Russian rubles, of which 32 million allocated SG. Even more than 8 billion Belarusian rubles (about the same in Russian rubles) amounted to deductions of labor collectives of the region (in particular, at the expense of the traditional Saturday community work) and voluntary donations of citizens. Konstantin Mishchenko noted that these funds will go "to the museumification of this object." He clarified that "it is planned to increase the number of vehicles in the open area, to create a permanent exhibition that reflects the progress of the operation from planning to completion of the first stage."

According to Sergey Merkulov, deputy chairman of the district executive committee, “such a structure was necessary on the territory of the Republic of Belarus, or rather, in our Svetlogorsk district”: “It’s good that the“ Bagration ”operation will become perpetuated with time in the Russian Federation Battle of Stalingrad and Kursk. It is even incomprehensible why it happened so that we came to an understanding of this only now. Indeed, as a result of that offensive, the republic was liberated from the German fascist invaders, in essence, with lightning speed, and after that the Germans didn’t really wake up to Berlin itself. ”

At least the fact that all the “boilers” that Hitler's troops got into was eliminated in the shortest time, says: “lightning speed”: Bobruisk - 3 of the day, Vitebsk - 4, Minsk - 6, Vilnius and Brest - on the 2 of the day.

SIXTHS FOR THE REPRESENTATION OF THE "MATTRESSERS"

At the round table, the NVO observer was shocked by one detail in the story of the exploits of soldiers and officers during the operation "Bagration" - I hadn’t heard or read about it personally before. It turns out that in every enemy DotA, his machine-gunners had a special pole to repel the bodies of Soviet soldiers, who closed the embrasure with themselves, in order to continue firing at the attackers. This was stated by the deputy director for scientific work of the Gomel Museum of Military Glory Konstantin Mishchenko: “Wehrmacht soldiers who defended in pillboxes were aware that Soviet soldiers could make such self-sacrifice and prudently prepared such poles.” True, to my clarifying question whether the pedantic Germans had any written instructions from the command on this matter, whether they were found, the museum worker was at a loss to answer.

With reference to the researcher of this topic - the Head of the Headquarters of regional expeditions on the places of accomplishments of the self-sacrifice of Sergei Zvyagin - his Gomel counterpart gave the exact figure that during World War II the famous feat of Alexander Matrosov was repeated by 437 soldiers and officers. Perhaps this figure is not final: a rather rounded number appeared in the literature of the Soviet period - about 300 of such heroes. “Of these cases, one truly unique is known,” said Mishchenko. - Two Red Army men closed the embrasure on the same day in one battle. And it happened on the Belarusian land. The feat was accomplished by 1 in March 1944 of the year on the outskirts of the village of Mormal, which is a dozen kilometers to the south-west of Zhlobin, by the commander of a machine-gun platoon 22-year-old lieutenant Nikolai Petrovich Zhuykov and the commander of a machine-gun crew of 50-year-old sergeant Philippe Nikolaymeyazeyyyyyyyyyyyyyi asleep. When the enemy machine gunner threw back the body of the dead Zhuikov, the example of the officer was followed by Mazilin, and the combat task was completed. By the way, of all those who committed such a feat, Sergeant Mazilin was the oldest. Both "sailor men" were introduced for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, but the command decided that the Order of Lenin would be enough for everyone. And sometimes for such self-sacrifice, they were limited to awarding the medal "For Courage".

Total order 170 "sailors" were posthumously awarded the Golden Star of the Hero.

One of the journalists asked the speaker what was the point of such a throw on a machine gun, because even a pistol shot throws the body two to three meters, what can we say about the machine-gun bursts released into the chest? And even if the body of the murdered hero remains on the embrasure, the time until the enemy throws it back is so short that the sacrifice with all the admiration for the feat is highly doubtful. This is not the case, the historian replied: it must be understood that the outcome of the battle is decided every moment, every minute, and while the enemy machine gun is silent, even if it’s half a minute, the advancing ones have time to move forward, bypass the firing point and destroy it.

Mishchenko also noted that during the entire war there was not a single case of a Wehrmacht soldier rushing to the embrasure. One "feat of Matrosov" was committed by a US Army soldier in the Pacific theater of operations in 1945.

As for the operation "Bagration", then in the course of it took place such feats, and not one. During the trip, I visited the village of Sychkovo, near Bobruisk, where, in addition to the magnificent memorial on the 18-meter-mound in memory of the liberators of the 1-Byelorussian Front and partisans, the bunkers of the times of those battles were preserved. He perpetuates the feat of the commander of the rifle squad of Senior Sergeant Mikhail Seleznev, who, with the liberation of the village, covered the loophole with his body. He was posthumously awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union. Sychkovsky school, park and central street of the village bear the name of the bearer of the Golden Star, and he was buried in a mass grave near the school.

In addition, contrary to the assertion of the Gomel museum-worker, the case of a double embrasure closure in Belarus was not the only one. Thus, when an offensive in the area of ​​Mogilev was launched, two soldiers of the 95 regiment of the 31 Guards Rifle Division of the 16 Guards Rifle Guard Corps of Lieutenant Ivan Ilchenko and junior sergeant Bary Shavaliyev formed one after another at the crack of the enemy firing point. The first for this feat was awarded the title Hero of the Soviet Union, and the second was awarded the Order of the Patriotic War II degree. And the names of the three Siberians who fought on the Volkhov front, who in January 1942 in one battle closed the embrasure of three pillboxes, are also known - all posthumously became the Knights of the Golden Star.

Also, according to Sergey Zvyagin, 14 is known for unique cases where "sailors" survived after throwing on a flamethrower opening. “At the present time,” he testifies, “only one of them survived - from Kiev Pyotr Filonenko, who is also the youngest such hero: he threw himself at the embrasure of the enemy bunker at 14-year-old age!”

And this happened precisely during the offensive of the troops of the 1 of the Belorussian Front, when brigades of the 1 of the Guards Tank Corps attacked the enemy, where Filonenko served in the intelligence unit. The former son of the regiment himself, who escaped to the front in 11 years and threw two years for “solidity”, which now for 85, in his recently published book “Through the Eyes of a Young Soldier”, said: “Our armored personnel carriers took the lead. At first the offensive developed well, but the resistance of the Germans increased. And on the right - German pillbox. The fight is in full swing. What to do? Rush thought tightly press the barrel of a fascist machine gun, so that it was torn off. He jumped off the armored personnel carrier, scrambled up to the bunker, and jumped right on the trunk. I felt a sharp blow, my chest burned, my legs buckled, and I fell on my stomach. For some time I felt how a German beat me on the shoulder with the trunk, on the head, to push it aside, and then - darkness, I don’t remember anything. ”

They decided to bury him, who showed no signs of life, as an officer — that is, in a coffin. Already nails in the lid began to hammer when they heard from under it barely audible rattles. Astonished colleagues immediately sent him to the doctors. Those, too, as they say, were taken over the heads: 12 bullets bleed. He underwent 12 operations and spent half a year on rehabilitation in a hospital in Georgian Tskhaltubo (here the unique patient was even called “Darned”). After that, he returned to the army in the army, although from intelligence officers he had to retrain into signalmen. Victory met in the communications regiment in Hungary. Later he served in the police, the service in which he graduated in the rank of colonel. And even by chance, once having acted in a movie, he later performed episodic roles in films (“Bumbarash”, “Diplomats Unwillingly”, “Yaroslav the Wise” ...).

Many expose the exploit of Peter Alekseevich to doubt, "require" to submit the relevant documents. The head of the Headquarters of regional expeditions to the places of accomplishments of self-sacrifice testifies that "we even saw a medical card from the hospital in Tskhaltubo, where we sent especially honored people and where all his injuries were described." “There was also a submission for the title of Hero of the Soviet Union, but his superiors did not approve him then,” the search engine states.

Sergey Zvyagin also testifies that in March 2014, the former young “sailor” went to the streets of Kiev to try to reason Bandera not to smash his hometown: “However, there were several literally freaks who pushed the front-line soldier on the asphalt and started beating. Fortunately, we managed to take him to Moscow and put him in a good hospital ... "

The representative of the Belarusian General Staff, Colonel Nikolai Buzin, in his speech at the seminar in Minsk, noted that "the exploits of the common soldier and the skillful leadership of the command isolated Operation Bagration from a number of other offensive operations and the loss of our troops were less than the losses of the Wehrmacht": "Alas Up to this point, any attack, including a successful one, was inevitably accompanied by large losses of Soviet soldiers in comparison with the enemy. Sometimes multiple. "
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  1. svp67
    svp67 5 September 2015 15: 02 New
    +15
    Gomel historians delicately question the well-established version that the legendary Marshal Konstantin Rokossovsky in May 1944 convinced Stalin and the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command (SVKK) of the only possible plan for the strategic operation “Bagration” to liberate Belarus from the Nazis (June 23 - August 29, 1944 of the year)
    Whatever it was, but the plan of the operation itself, that is, how and where to attack was developed by Rokosovsky’s headquarters and he, as commander, proved the correctness of his decisions to the Supreme and General Staff. And on the map and documents of the "Operation Plan" at the bottom of the first was his signature. And if the Supreme’s signature appeared on them in the “Approve” column, then the Commander could prove that he not only clearly understands the goals and objectives set for him by the Headquarters, but clearly sees how to implement them. And if, the Germans themselves considered Konstantin Konstantinovich a very worthy and dangerous adversary, then it is not "Gomel historians" now to question this. Since the military ethics is such that the Commander is responsible for everything, and if he believes that the idea proposed to him is the best, then this idea becomes already his. Everything becomes subordinate to her, as the Commander begins to bring it to life. And I won’t be surprised if the next time it turns out that "Gomel historians" "find" documents claiming that the plan of this operation was proposed by someone from Belarus.
    1. Nicholas C.
      Nicholas C. 5 September 2015 17: 24 New
      +10
      Quote: svp67
      the plan of the operation itself, that is, how and where to attack was developed by Rokosovsky’s headquarters and he, as commander, proved the correctness of his decisions to the Supreme and General Staff. And on the map and documents of the "Operation Plan" at the bottom of the first was his signature.

      The Belarusian operation is not an operation of one Rokossovsky front, but an operation of four fronts. And, accordingly, the General Staff was preparing it. From design to full details. Moreover, an operation of this magnitude requires enormous resources (which still need to be supplied on time and in the right place, and this is GKO). How and what can be read in Vasilevsky’s memoirs. And Alexander Mikhailovich, in my opinion, is not seen in any politicking. When there Stalin called him with Zhukov for this training. When and with whom else consulted. And the operation was developed personally by Alexey Innokentievich Antonov. He signed. It is a pity that Antonov’s memoirs were not read. Are there any at all? - The man died in the service. But everyone can independently find what Antonov was doing at that time.

      And the scene in the “other office” looks somehow Hollywood. Such operations take a long time to prepare and coordinate for a long time with the necessary secrecy, of course, including actions of the front commanded by Rokossovsky himself. “Think Five Minutes,” sounds like a joke.

      PS. My father walked everything in this operation in the calculation of the battalion mortar in Batov’s army of the Rokossovsky front.
      1. svp67
        svp67 5 September 2015 23: 41 New
        0
        Quote: Nikolay S.
        From design to full details.

        It can not be.
        Quote: Nikolay S.
        And the operation was developed personally by Alexey Innokentyevich Antonov

        You imagine the volume of all documents that are being developed for such an operation. Not that one person, even the entire General Staff, is not capable of fulfilling them in a short time. What is the parallel work method used for when a lower combat headquarters is assigned a preliminary combat mission and they begin to work out their part of the work SIMULTANEOUSLY with the Higher one, and this is done to speed up the work, of course you can use a consistent method, but it takes longer and doesn’t release the same downstream commanders of their headquarters from the execution of their part of the work.
        So it’s enough to pick up, in the archives, the documents preceding this meeting and see what the General Staff of Rokossovsky directed. Everything will immediately fall into place.
        1. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 6 September 2015 05: 17 New
          +1
          Quote: svp67
          You imagine the volume of all documents that are being developed for such an operation. Not that one person, even the entire General Staff, is not capable of fulfilling them in a short time.

          No need to theorize. You just need to know.
          “In addition to Antonov, only four people were involved in the direct development of the plan of the Belarusian operation: Zhukov, Vasilevsky, the chief of the General Staff’s Operations Directorate and one of his deputies. Subject correspondence, telephone or telegraph negotiations were strictly prohibited. The development of Operation Bagration lasted several weeks, May 20, her plan was signed by Antonov. In Stavka, the plan was discussed on May 22 and 23 with the participation of Zhukov, Vasilevsky, Baghramyan, Rokossovsky, and the staff of the General Staff headed by Antonov. The aim of the operation was to cover two flank attacks and destroy the Minsk group of the enemy Army Group Center. "

          Antonov’s biography is reproduced without changes in many places. For example here:
          pomnipro.ru/memorypage13118/biography


          It is strange that neither you nor the author of the article under discussion knew about it. So another question: what was there with the branded Belarus. Vasilevsky’s memoirs describe in detail what was developed.
          Zhukov, by the way, was also the assistant in staff affairs. Vasilyevsky from discussions to specific work on the operation could only connect in early May - he was in the army.
          How Stalinists worked for Stalin is for Vasilevsky. And not only. 18 hours a day, seven days a week. Sleep from 6 am to 12. Bed in the same place at the service. The current does not understand. Therefore, they are not capable of doing anything.

          After the meeting at Headquarters there was still a revision. The operation plan was finally approved on the 30th. On the 31st, the directives went into the troops. And went dvizhuha.
          1. svp67
            svp67 7 September 2015 06: 24 New
            0
            Quote: Nikolay S.
            No need to theorize. You just need to know.

            You do not fully understand the essence of the issue discussed here. The fact that the General Staff proposed to advance on the front of the Rokossovsky - I have no doubt.
            The question was, who suggested attacking in Belarus IN TWO MAIN DIRECTIONS.
            And in order to put all the points over “ё”, you just need to read the preliminary instructions of the General Staff.
            1. Chiropractor
              Chiropractor 7 September 2015 14: 04 New
              0
              Quote: Igor Pugatarev
              because even a pistol shot casts the body two or three meters away,


              what do you guys make fun of?

              such a stopping effect, not every ruzhzho give ....
            2. Nicholas C.
              Nicholas C. 7 September 2015 15: 29 New
              0
              Quote: svp67
              You do not fully understand the essence of the issue discussed here. The fact that the General Staff proposed to advance on the front of the Rokossovsky - I have no doubt.
              The question was, who suggested attacking in Belarus IN TWO MAIN DIRECTIONS.
              Yes, I understand everything.
              Quote: Author Igor Pugatarev
              Gomel historians delicately question the well-established version that the legendary Marshal Konstantin Rokossovsky in May 1944 convinced Stalin and the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command (SVKK) of the only possible plan for the strategic operation “Bagration” to liberate Belarus from the Nazis (June 23 - August 29, 1944 of the year)

              The phrase of this Ivan Plugatarev is simply full of Ales kaput. Read the memoirs of Vasilevsky, Rokossovsky, Shtemenko and others. Then do not disgrace yourself with the Belarus brothers. “Kina” is not enough to see. And then the Belarusians will think that we are all ignoramuses.

              The two main attacks in Operation Bagration are a strike from the south of the Rokossovsky front and a strike from the north of Baghramyan's front with the aim of encircling the Army Group Center in the Minsk region. This is the design of the operation.

              Vasilevsky: "During the March and April the concept of the summer campaign has been repeatedly discussed and specified by the Supreme Commander. G.K.Zhukova and I were called to Moscow several times."
              "The plan was to ... surround and destroy German groups in the area of ​​Vitebsk and Bobruisk"
              "Actually, from April in fact, the material support of the upcoming summer campaign was to begin. "The General Staff submitted to the GKO all the calculations for the military forces required for this operation, stocks of military equipment, facilities, ammunition, fuel, equipment, food and other material resources."


              So what did Rokossovsky say on May 22-23? If you read his memoirs, you would know what was written directly: the operation was planned at Headquarters and was developed at the General Staff. He only had thoughts about the offensive on his front: "the terrain on the direction of Rogachev – Bobruisk allowed in the initial period of the offensive
              to concentrate there only the forces of the 3rd and partially the 48th armies. If this grouping of our troops is not helped in another sector, the enemy will be able to prevent a breakthrough of his defense here ...
              The attack of the 65th and 28th armies on the left bank of the Berezina in the direction of Bobruisk, Osipovichi deprived the enemy of the opportunity to transfer his forces from this sector against the 3rd army, and vice versa. "

              But even so the words of Rokossovsky look muddy. Because according to Vasilevsky, the operation initially envisioned the encirclement of Bobruisk and Vitebsk. But in another way you won’t surround Bobruisk - you have to advance from the north and from the south, on the other side of the Berezina. Here are two hits. Baghramyan surrounded Vitebsk without a pump about the “two blows”.
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 6 September 2015 11: 02 New
        +2
        "And the operation was developed personally by Alexei Innokentyevich Antonov.
        He signed "///

        That's right. Antonov - outstanding
        operative officer. When in the General Staff
        the Vasilevsky-Antonov tandem was formed,
        Red Army operations - starting with the Battle of Kursk -
        became thoughtful and balanced.
  2. avt
    avt 5 September 2015 15: 05 New
    -5
    ,, Gomel historians delicately question the well-established version that the legendary Marshal Konstantin Rokossovsky in May 1944 convinced Stalin and the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command (SVKK) of the only possible plan for the strategic operation “Bagration” to liberate Belarus from the Nazis (June 23 - 29 August 1944). “The commander of the 1st Belorussian Front, let’s say, has somewhat embellished his personal role in his memoirs in devising the idea of ​​delivering two main strikes on one front, which the Soviet forces had never practiced before during the war,” the observer of NVO was not without this I heard surprise, in particular, from the Dean of the Faculty of History of Gomel State University. Francis Skorina, candidate of historical sciences Nikolai Mezgi. "-------- what Yeah yeah ???? Who ? Much more for this role, the historians are “preparing Butske’s place? Like to swallow according to the tonsils in pursuit of nishtyaks from the master's table? Well, now they certainly know better, and even from Gomel. laughing
    1. imperialist
      imperialist 5 September 2015 15: 36 New
      +9
      They are not waiting for any nishtyakov. The teaching and student body of the historical faculties of Belarusian universities is completely saturated with Svidomo. We are slowly but surely preparing the Galicia-2 project.
      1. denis6064
        denis6064 5 September 2015 19: 22 New
        +3
        I agree with you. I personally know some of them.
      2. 1500014781401
        1500014781401 6 September 2015 10: 18 New
        0
        to whom is this for you? Maybe it's time to stop pouring dirt on Belarusians and Lukashenko, dear allies?
  3. starshina pv
    starshina pv 5 September 2015 15: 13 New
    +4
    A lot of secrets and mysteries left the Second World War, and there will be a lot of debate and discussion! And how was it really, will we know when?
    1. shooter cc
      shooter cc 7 September 2015 01: 07 New
      0
      Quote: starshina pv
      A lot of secrets and mysteries left the Second World War, and there will be a lot of debate and discussion! And how was it really, will we know when?

      Yeah now, historians are already running to show the archives to everyone. If only your great-grandchildren will learn the whole truth, don’t even hope for yourself.
  4. Evilcat
    Evilcat 5 September 2015 15: 28 New
    +2
    Zhukov's evidence is a serious argument. But what about the fact that they were essentially competitors? For example, the Victory Parade was commanded by Rokossovsky, and Zhukov only accepted it.
    1. svp67
      svp67 5 September 2015 15: 32 New
      +6
      Quote: EvilCat
      But what about the fact that they were essentially competitors? For example, the Victory Parade was commanded by Rokossovsky, and Zhukov only accepted it.

      This is a common situation in the Army, someone is the Chief, someone is the Subordinate. There was a time when Zhukov was subordinate to Rokossovsky and the latter in the description indicated the shortcomings of the future "Marshal of Victory", which spoiled the "bright image". Do people of the Zhukovsky type forgive such a thing?
    2. shooter cc
      shooter cc 7 September 2015 00: 25 New
      0
      Quote: EvilCat
      Zhukov's evidence is a serious argument. But what about the fact that they were essentially competitors? For example, the Victory Parade was commanded by Rokossovsky, and Zhukov only accepted it.

      Anyone who takes a parade in status higher than the one who commands. And the beetle was still a warrior, and he was cruel to the best of his own, and too proud, so the testimony of a beetle is not always an argument, much less iron.
  5. creak
    creak 5 September 2015 15: 31 New
    +13
    Quote: starshina pv
    A lot of secrets and mysteries left the Second World War, and there will be a lot of debate and discussion! And how was it really, will we know when?


    It is difficult to say, nevertheless, I would like to add that my father once mentioned that he did not see such a massacre as the Germans arranged near Bobruisk before him. The Wehrmacht experienced about the same as the Red Army in the tragic summer of 1941, mountains of broken equipment, columns of prisoners and everywhere the corpses of the killed Germans ...
    I believe that my father knew what he was saying, he fought from July 1941 to February 1945, starting with an ordinary and ending the war as captain, company commander ...
    In his opinion, although an ordinary but direct participant in those events, Operation Bagration is the most brilliant operation of the Second World War.
    1. shasherin.pavel
      shasherin.pavel 5 September 2015 17: 40 New
      -6
      Quote: ranger
      the most brilliant operation of the Second World War.

      this is the liberation of Kursk, but Chernyakhovsky was killed by Bandera, but after the war, there was no one who wanted to advertise his talent.
      1. vovanpain
        vovanpain 5 September 2015 18: 47 New
        +8
        Did Banderyuki really kill Chernyakhovsky, not Tolbukhin. This is something new. And please answer the question: When was Zhukov subordinate to Rokossovsky?
        1. Evver
          Evver 5 September 2015 19: 12 New
          +5
          Chernyakhovsky died from shell fragments in East Prussia, in February 1945, in a collision with Bandera (according to one version) - he was seriously wounded and then Vatutin died!

          A Tolbukhin F.I. met Victory alive and healthy, and died only in 1947 ...
          1. vovanpain
            vovanpain 5 September 2015 19: 59 New
            +10
            I apologize to Marshal Tolbukhin and you, I forgot about Vatutin. But Chernyakhovsky didn’t die at the hands of Bandera. They all bow deeply to those living now.
        2. wild_boar
          wild_boar 5 September 2015 19: 14 New
          +7
          Both are participants in the First World War (then it was called the Patriotic War), both went over to the side of the Soviet government in 1917. Both almost simultaneously completed higher command courses: Rokossovsky in 1929, Zhukov in 1930. Yes, and they were born in the same year and in the same month.

          After completing the courses, both were assigned to the Belarusian military district: K. Rokossovsky - commander of the 7th Samara cavalry division named after the English proletariat, G. Zhukov - commander of the 2nd cavalry brigade of this division. Note that Zhukov is subordinate to Rokossovsky.

          Here is the characteristic that G. Zhukov gave to his immediate superior K. Rokossovsky on November 8, 1930:

          “Certification of the commander of the 2nd cavalry brigade of the 7th Samara cavalry division Zhukov PK.
          Strong will. Resolute. It has a rich initiative and skillfully applies it in practice. Disciplined. Demanding and persistent in their requirements. By nature, a little dry and not sensitive enough. It has a significant share of stubbornness. Painfully proud. Militarily prepared well. Has a great practical team experience. He loves and constantly improves military affairs. The presence of abilities for further growth is noticeable. It’s authoritative ... It can be used to advantage for the post of pomkomdiv or commander of a mechanical connection ... It cannot be appointed to staff and teaching work - it organically hates it. "
          1. vovanpain
            vovanpain 5 September 2015 20: 01 New
            +9
            Thanks, now I understand before the Second World War.
  6. sabakina
    sabakina 5 September 2015 15: 42 New
    +2
    Brothers - Belarusians! So We stepped through your swamps or again, as with Susanin! Felts bulo, felts not bulo ....
    1. shasherin.pavel
      shasherin.pavel 5 September 2015 17: 45 New
      0
      There were Poles! So Susanin was! "because we understand that there can be dreams without dreams, but there can be no dreams without dreams." True, Susanin accomplished his feat the next year after the Poles kicked in the ass from the Kremlin, but if there was Susanin, then he led someone into the swamps. And if he led someone into a swamp, then let it be Poles ...
  7. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 5 September 2015 16: 48 New
    +2
    Yes, there were people in our time, not like the current tribe! But to the gentlemen "scientists" before starting to rummage through historical documents, wash their hands !!! Stop shouting the feat of the people.
  8. starshina pv
    starshina pv 5 September 2015 16: 57 New
    +1
    Quote: ranger
    Quote: starshina pv
    A lot of secrets and mysteries left the Second World War, and there will be a lot of debate and discussion! And how was it really, will we know when?


    It is difficult to say, nevertheless, I would like to add that my father once mentioned that he did not see such a massacre as the Germans arranged near Bobruisk before him. The Wehrmacht experienced about the same as the Red Army in the tragic summer of 1941, mountains of broken equipment, columns of prisoners and everywhere the corpses of the killed Germans ...
    I believe that my father knew what he was saying, he fought from July 1941 to February 1945, starting with an ordinary and ending the war as captain, company commander ...
    In his opinion, although an ordinary but direct participant in those events, Operation Bagration is the most brilliant operation of the Second World War.

    A big bow to your father! But my grandfather went missing in 1942 somewhere near Rostov-on-Don, in the last letter he wrote that the Don was bleeding and there were also mountains of corpses, only ours, military and civilians.
  9. 3vs
    3vs 5 September 2015 17: 31 New
    +2
    Nikolai Mezga, it seems, is getting State Department money.
    These "historians" are slowly starting to poison the general memory of the war, of a common history,
    I think this is done purposefully ...
    1. Stas57
      Stas57 6 September 2015 01: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: 3vs
      Nikolai Mezga, it seems, is getting State Department money.
      These "historians" are slowly starting to poison the general memory of the war, of a common history,
      I think this is done purposefully ...


      but such mediocrity, ignoramus and dunno like 3vs are the worst in the world.

      Yes, the State Department still paid Zhukov for everything, and at the same time for the entire Soviet Generals.

      After making sure that Rokossovsky continued to defend his point of view, Stalin approved the plan of operation in the form that was proposed by the headquarters of the 1 Belorussian Front. It must be said that Zhukov refutes this story of Rokossovsky. According to him, the decision on two attacks by the 1-th Belorussian Front was made by the Headquarters on 20 in May. http://topwar.ru/52694-pyatyy-stalinskiy-udar-operaciya-bagration.html


      3vs Well, if only Zhukova once in a life would read!

      but what he writes State Department Agent G. K. Zhukov-

      The version of "two main attacks" in the Belarusian direction existing in some military circles by the forces of the 1 Belorussian Front, which K. K. Rokossovsky allegedly insisted on before the Supreme, is groundless. Both of these attacks, designed by the front, were previously approved by I.V. Stalin on the 20 of May according to the draft of the General Staff, that is, before the arrival of the commander of the 1
      Belorussian Front to Headquarters.
      It is also worth noting here that in Soviet military theory it never
      it was envisaged that two main strikes would be launched by one front, and if both strikes were equivalent in strength and value, they were usually called "powerful strikes."

      Zhukov G. Memoirs and Thoughts
      Chapter Nineteen. The liberation of Belarus and Ukraine.


      But Vasilevsky does not mention such a rally on 22 in May:

      On May 20, the plan of the Belarusian operation developed by the General Staff was presented to the Supreme Commander. Soon it was considered at Headquarters with the participation of some commanders and members of the military councils of the fronts. In the coming days, the General Staff [400] was to submit an updated plan for final approval at Headquarters. Together with G.K. Zhukov and A.I. Antonov, I repeatedly visited the Supreme Commander in those days. Each time during these meetings, we returned to discuss the details of the plan and the conduct of the Belarusian operation, which received the name "Bagration". At that time, the question of the readiness of the Leningrad Front to conduct an offensive operation on the Karelian Isthmus and the plan of the operation of the Karelian Front in South Karelia, which was supposed to begin a few days after the operation of the Leningrad Front, was comprehensively considered.

      30 May Headquarters finally approved the plan of operation "Bagration".

      Vasilevsky Alexander Mikhailovich
      A life-long affair
      1. shooter cc
        shooter cc 7 September 2015 01: 16 New
        0
        Quote: Stas57
        and here is what State Department agent G.K. writes himself. Zhukov-

        Zhukov doesn’t respect himself to quote. Whatever book he leaves, he is the most truthful one, he must believe. And before that, what was he writing? , yes, almost all of his memoirs are a boring enumeration of events and facts, much has been misinterpreted as something from the grave, and the truth about the beginning of the war has never been so.
  10. shasherin.pavel
    shasherin.pavel 5 September 2015 17: 34 New
    -2
    The feat of “Matrosov” was made by 14 summer Prazhanka, who closed the basement window from where the Nazis fired machine-gun fire to protest.
  11. The comment was deleted.
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. fa2998
    fa2998 5 September 2015 20: 01 New
    +2
    Quote: starshina pv
    A lot of secrets and mysteries left the Second World War, and there will be a lot of debate and discussion! And how was it really, will we know when?

    Yes, there are a lot of “white spots” in the history of the Second World War, a lot of secrets, many documents destroyed. On the one hand, screams about rewriting history, on the other hand, marked 70 years of Victory, and documents on history are secret, declassified by teaspoon. Recently, another portion was. request what hi
  14. Altona
    Altona 5 September 2015 20: 04 New
    +5
    Grandfather died near Mogilev ... All that remains ...
  15. Erwin
    Erwin 5 September 2015 20: 04 New
    +6
    The memorial complex "Barrow of Glory", was erected in honor of the encirclement of the German group during the operation "Bagration", the so-called "Minsk Cauldron". The largest construction in the republic dedicated to this operation.
  16. 79807420129
    79807420129 5 September 2015 20: 59 New
    +8
    Whether Stalin sent Rokossovsky to think or not we won’t know, and most importantly, the Bagration operation was carried out brilliantly, and if the sabers forget about it, it will be the same as what is happening now with Ukraine. This is another musician from the State Department grant grant.
  17. 1536
    1536 5 September 2015 21: 12 New
    -3
    Maybe it’s not too late to find money and at least buy land near the Brest Fortress - under the monuments to fallen soldiers and officers of the Red Army in the early days of World War II! It will be Russian property. After all, they will betray everything that is possible, destroy, vulgarize, etc. This is not a reproach, it is a statement of fact. I don’t want to see how the US flag flutters over the Brest Fortress, as fascism triumphs on Belarusian soil after decades. To redeem nationwide, in the name of present and future generations, standing on the side of truth, and not "Gomel history."
    1. Erwin
      Erwin 6 September 2015 00: 56 New
      +4
      Dear 1536, in the Republic of Belarus they are very responsible in maintaining the memory of the Great Patriotic War. By the way: that year a new museum was opened at one of the central avenues (Pobediteley Ave, by the way), over the dome of which the Soviet flag is constantly developing, next to the state square. a flag, which, by the way, is also of the Soviet sample (without a hammer and sickle). Also, the old border has a memorial complex "Stalin's Line", where the bust of the leader of all times and peoples (to which even flowers are brought) is absolutely officially installed, but not every country of the former USSR can boast of this ... And these examples are just offhand. So, I think, it's too early for you to bury us, look if you didn’t survive.
    2. 1500014781401
      1500014781401 6 September 2015 10: 21 New
      +2
      and in what state is the military burial place in Russia? How do WWII veterans live?
      1. Volga Cossack
        Volga Cossack 6 September 2015 20: 54 New
        0
        yes, it’s obvious that fashion has gone again — roll the barrel to Belarus — the elections — on May 9, here they shouted — the ribbons are supposedly forbidden Georges- and I am a citizen of the Russian Federation — I live and work in Belarus — no one infringes me and I never watched the above described. ........ and bought the tapes by the 9th of my 3 meters - in the regional center and gave myself and his wife and children and acquaintances ........ and what was - was not - until now shells - helmets - sleeves plow in the fields!
  18. bullfinch
    bullfinch 5 September 2015 21: 52 New
    +4
    I read to the place- "(by the way, a rather strange typo: throughout the war the Glavkoverkh had only one deputy - Marshal Zhukov. - I.P.)"and threw it. It’s immediately obvious that the person writes who has no idea what he is writing about.
    1. Stalin's only deputy for GKOs and his first deputy for the Council of People's Commissars, People's Commissar for Foreign Affairs Molotov.
    2. Stalin's Deputies for the People’s Commissariat of Defense, Chiefs of the General Staff, Marshal B.M. Shaposhnikov and General A.M. Vasilevsky who replaced him
    3.1th Deputy Commissar of Defense and Supreme Commander-in-Chief of the Army G.K. Zhukov
    4. The second after Molotov, First Deputy Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars and Chairman of the State Planning Commission N.A. Voznesensky, who was Stalin's chief assistant in managing the country's military economy.
    Such mistakes of the author speak at least about his non-professionalism.
  19. Stas57
    Stas57 6 September 2015 00: 50 New
    +1
    Gomel historians delicately question the well-established version that the legendary Marshal Konstantin Rokossovsky in May 1944 convinced Stalin and the Headquarters of the Supreme High Command


    Ahrenet discovery!
    With booties in the morning!

    but nothing about this A. Isaev wrote and spoke on television several years ago!

    it certainly is in the book Bagration. published in 2014
    As Rokossovsky wrote in his memoirs: “Twice I was offered to go into the next room in order to consider the proposal of the Headquarters. After each such “thinking over”, I had to defend my decision with renewed vigor. ”After making sure that I firmly insisted on our point of view, Stalin approved the plan of the operation in the form as we presented it.” Isaev, relying on documents from the front, demonstrates that just Rokossovsky was a supporter of one super-powerful strike, and only the pressure of the Headquarters forced him to redistribute forces and strengthen the second strike, which as a result led to success.

    but the joke itself is that K.K. Rokossovsky was kicked for it during his lifetime!


    first column down
  20. Green1976
    Green1976 6 September 2015 01: 16 New
    0
    Eternal glory in your truth among strangers and a stranger among your own!
  21. Gouging
    Gouging 6 September 2015 23: 57 New
    0
    "Gomel historians" ... None of these organisms at that terrible time was not even a cloudy drop. But this is not the time when you can lie, all that comes to your mind (digging of the Black Sea from ukroistorikov). In the brilliant operation “Bagration,” the next copyists of history begin to poke their snouts. It’s very strange that they were Belarusian, I didn’t think of anyone.