Cleopatra goes for a breakthrough

26


Although I am not a big fan of antiquity, it is a sin not to recall that the other day was the anniversary of the battle at Cape Actium - the last of the epic sea battles of the ancient world, which took place on September 2 31 BC. Since by that time the Mediterranean Sea had long ago turned into Mar Romanum, and Rome had no enemies left (pirates do not count), the Romans had to willy-nilly to blizzard each other. The reason was quite worthy - a fight for power between the two heirs of the slain Caesar - Mark Antony and Guy Octavius ​​Furin.
In the Ambracian Gulf on the west coast of Greece, Octavia’s fleet blocked the combined fleet of Anthony and his girlfriend, Egyptian queen Cleopatra Philopator. The number of warring armadas in different sources varies greatly - from 260 to 400 ships. It is not clear who really possessed a quantitative superiority, but everyone agrees that Anthony’s ships were larger and heavier on average, but Octavius ​​had more archers and throwing machines. In terms of training, the Octavian sailors were noticeably superior to the enemy; moreover, Anthony’s fleet was weakened by the epidemic of malaria, which knocked down many soldiers and rowers.

Anthony made a bet on rams, and the commander fleet Octavia Mark Vipsaniy Agrippa (Octavius ​​himself was heavily lurking with sea sickness) - for remote combat and boarding. Agrippa's tactics turned out to be more advantageous. His light and maneuverable libourns, as a rule, managed to avoid ramming blows, and from the incendiary shells the catapults and ballista soon flared up many of Anthony's triremes and quadriremes.
Cleopatra's flotilla initially stood in reserve, but, sensing that the case literally smelled fried, the queen ordered to move forward and go for a breakthrough of the enemy's battle line. Behind her rushed the flagship Deutser Anthony and several other ships caught up nearby. Total escaped about 60 ships that went to Egypt, and the rest - burned or surrendered.
The loss of the Antoni fleet is estimated at approximately 200 ships and 5000 dead sailors. Octavians killed about two and a half thousand, the losses in the ships - are unknown.
Subsequently, the Roman historians, for whom Octavius ​​became divine Augustus, and Anthony - a vile impostor (of course, if he won, then the estimates would change to the opposite), called a breakthrough from the Ambracian Bay shameful and cowardly flight. However, I would not be so categorical. If Anthony and Cleopatra chose as their goal not a heroic and senseless death in fire or in salty water, then they acted absolutely correctly. And what else could they do?





The battle of Actium and the return of Anthony to Egypt. Pictures of the Slovak artist Rado Javor.



Build Roman liburn.



Roman birema with ballista




Roman trireme and quadrireme with combat towers and boarding gangways.

In conclusion, a pair of Renaissance paintings depicting the battle of Actium. Judging by them, the then artists read the ancient authors, but had a very vague idea of ​​what the warships of ancient Rome looked like.



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  1. +3
    6 September 2015 09: 27
    That's interesting.
    1. -15
      6 September 2015 11: 08
      It’s a sin not to recall that the other day was the anniversary of the battle at Cape Aktsium - the last of the epic naval battles of the ancient world, which took place on September 2, 31 BC


      how can you forget such a great event? Someone really needs to support the mossy version of the story about "ancient and great Rome." The version of "ancient Rome" does not stand up to criticism today, because many questions have accumulated on which traditional historians cannot and do not want to answer, for example,
      - due to what resources could the city of Rome develop in Italy - a city far from trade routes and industrial centers?
      -that these two-seasons, triremes, four-seasons, five-periods, and ten-periods could not be built either by Rome, or Greece, or even later by Venice due to the fact that no suitable tree species grow on the territory of these countries, i.e. pine trees, at least in sufficient numbers, to create such fleets of one hundred or two hundred military vessels.
      -Roman account -Roman numbers are absolutely unsuitable for calculations and of course it is impossible to use them in the calculations of the economy of the ugroin empire.
      Regarding the fact of antique warships and the tactics of using weapons by these ships, there is an article by naval officer Kostylev to which there are no answers either.
      http://www.newparadigma.ru/prcv/Publ/Kostylev/xoxma.htm

      In the article, Kostylev discusses the impossibility of building galleys with rows of oars more than one, as well as the impossibility of using wooden vessels to use massive rams. And also again, the complete impossibility of such machines of antiquity as a ballista and a catapult. The management of fleets without a SPECIAL PIPE was completely impossible, and this pipe was discovered by Galileo in the 16th century.
      In short, with the ancient world wherever you throw a wedge everywhere. Too much invented, something that does not fit with real physical and chemical laws. But at the same time, ANTIQUITY, as a historical epoch, of course took place in history, but what this "antiquity" really was, historians are confused to hide. "Antique" ie previous - the cities that perished civilization were St. Petersburg, Rome in Italy - such a city was, but not like the capital of the Roman Empire, Philadelphia in America, Odessa, which on some maps goes like Ordesa, there are antique buildings in Kiev, in Japan there are many antique buildings in many other cities. Modern civilization is literally built on the ruins of this dead civilization, so Peter 1 did not build his city on the Neva, but DIGGED IT ...


      This is an image from the Chronicle of Ivan the Terrible, as we see in Russia of those years, naked figures from, as it were, "ancient" antiquity were quite present ...

      http://www.kramola.info/vesti/neobyknovennoe/antichnaja-rus
      1. +2
        6 September 2015 11: 29
        I like this topic - about rams and rams)))). It was always touching that a historical event, if of course it still happened, is reproduced according to "nirazu" not historical films. In this clinical case - the film "Cleopatra"

        I came across an article by Korystylev about 7 years ago. Now periodically in disputes I bring an article.
        In the article, Kostylev discusses the impossibility of building galleys with rows of oars more than one, as well as the impossibility of using wooden vessels to use massive rams. And also again, the complete impossibility of such machines of antiquity as a ballista and a catapult. The management of fleets without a SPECIAL PIPE was completely impossible, and this pipe was discovered by Galileo in the 16th century.


        Well, there is still

        If you believe the representatives of KVI, on the decks of ancient galleys (see above), various catapults, arcballists, doriboles, onagra and other stone-throwing devices towered with batteries. They fired at enemy ships with both cobblestones and pointed pegs and pots with "Greek fire."

        The saga about the pots is forced to sweep away from the threshold. No one will let you play with flammable liquids on a wooden ship. Incendiary arrows are another matter, they light them from the torch just before the shot, and even an arrow that fell onto the deck by accident does not pose a great danger. Well, fell, well, pick it up and throw it overboard. Another thing is when about twenty of these arrows yell firmly into the side: then don’t yawn, knock down the carcasses. And the "fire pots", gentlemen, are more dangerous for their ship than for the enemy.

        Move on. Our catapults are mounted on deck ... Which one? The design feature of the galley is precisely the absence of a clean deck, with the exception of small areas in the bow and stern - the tank and the utah. The catapult is a ragged structure, it has many long moving parts. Suppose we still managed to squeeze onto the tank and yut one at a time (no longer enter), so what? These two decks - the kingdom of deck sailors. All control of the sails is concentrated here, in the sense of all the running ends of the ship’s gear and the main part of the standing rigging. With the first shot we cut half of all these ropes! Even with the advent of a much more compact weapon, guns, armament galleys was a problem. As a rule, it was possible to dispense 5-7 small-caliber guns on the bow and stern platforms, and nothing more. This, in the end, ruined the galley: the gunboat with its large-caliber cannons simply survived its "retirement".

        In addition, we with our stone-throwers greatly interfere with archers and legionnaires, who already lack space, and then there are sailors, and here is Mr. Questor with his assistants, and here we have taken away the lion's share of space.
        1. -3
          6 September 2015 19: 49
          Quote: Severomor
          I like this topic - about rams and rams)))).
          We know another's story by heart! And the history of the Urals and Siberia, the Far East? And what happened before Yermak? Or to Erofei Pavlovich Khabarov? And why is the Chinese wall built by loopholes in the direction of China? Sad
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. +8
        6 September 2015 17: 26
        Quote: War and Peace
        Peter1 did not build his city on the Neva, but DIGGED IT ...

        Well yes. Digging a couple with ukrami. Those are the Black Sea, and Peter Peter)))))
        Quote: War and Peace
        without a SPECIAL PIPE, it was impossible at all, and this pipe itself was discovered, as Galileo knew in the 16 century.

        Admirals Beatty, Jellico, and Ingenol with Hipper can be blamed for the same. How dare they command the fleets under Jutland without the VHF, scoundrels like that and once again !!!!
        Generally less Fomenkovschina at night and pass for a normal person))))
        1. -1
          6 September 2015 20: 16
          Quote: tomket
          Well yes. Digging a couple with ukrami. Those are the Black Sea, and Peter Peter)))))


          how do you want to talk on business, or just scratch your tongue?

          here are links to the research of St. Petersburg, by the way not Fomenko at all ...

          http://www.kramola.info/vesti/letopisi-proshlogo/otkuda-gorod-chast-1
          there are also propositions, a lot of factual material
          on the old map of 1720 it is clear that Vasilievsky Island has already been planned out, but how can this be done without geodesy, which in those days had not happened? there were no tools - this is impossible ...

          Quote: tomket
          Admirals Beatty, Jellico, and Ingenol with Hipper can be blamed for the same. How dare they command the fleets under Jutland without the VHF, scoundrels like that and once again !!!!
          Generally less Fomenkovschina at night and pass for a normal person))))


          But what actually commanded the fleets? You read Kostylev, it’s pointless to give orders from the flagship to the rest of the ships without a telescope — they won’t see, therefore, neither TURN RIGHT nor OPEN THE FIRE SIMULTANEOUSLY is impossible, so the tradicism here misses.
          Do not like Fomenko? so I don’t refer to him ...
          1. 0
            7 September 2015 12: 34
            Quote: War and Peace
            Do not like Fomenko? so I don’t refer to him ...

            Well, you’re not referring to Marx. On Engels))))
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +1
        6 September 2015 20: 28
        -that these two-seasons, triremes, four-seasons, five-periods, and ten-periods could not be built either by Rome, or Greece, or even later by Venice due to the fact that no suitable tree species grow on the territory of these countries, i.e. pine trees, at least in sufficient numbers, to create such fleets of one hundred or two hundred military vessels.
        And there were pine trees and cedar, I don’t remember about which island there was an article, whether Cyprus, or Malta, because there forests were worn out, including for the construction of ships.
        1. -3
          6 September 2015 20: 37
          Quote: svd-xnumx
          -that these two-seasons, triremes, four-seasons, five-periods, and ten-periods could not be built either by Rome, or Greece, or even later by Venice due to the fact that no suitable tree species grow on the territory of these countries, i.e. pine trees, at least in sufficient numbers, to create such fleets of one hundred or two hundred military vessels.
          And there were pine trees and cedar, I don’t remember about which island there was an article, whether Cyprus, or Malta, because there forests were worn out, including for the construction of ships.


          these are just words, there is no evidence ...
          1. +1
            6 September 2015 22: 25
            Here are the data on the vegetation of Italy
            On brown, volcanic and, in places, dark-colored soils of Apennine, Sicily and Sardinia up to a height of 500-600 m, the vegetation is represented by groves of evergreen stone and cork oak, closer to the coast are pine, olives, oleander, carob, mastic tree and Aleppo pine. At heights of 1000-1500 m, forests of oak, beech and chestnut prevail, and above 2000 m - mountain coniferous-deciduous forests of beech, spruce, fir and pine. The remains of ancient forests are also found, where among others there are white ash, white poplar and eastern plane tree. Https: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1% 80% D0% B0% D1% 84%
            D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%98%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B8
            Ships were built from pine, cypress, spruce and oak. And in those days it was no longer a big problem to buy and bring boards from remote areas, ships went all over the Mediterranean, the Black Sea basin, and maybe even went from there around the Pyrenees to northern Europe.
            1. 0
              6 September 2015 23: 32
              Quote: svd-xnumx
              Here are the data on the vegetation of Italy
              On brown, volcanic and, in places, dark-colored soils of Apennine, Sicily and Sardinia up to a height of 500-600 m, the vegetation is represented by groves of evergreen stone and cork oak, closer to the coast are pine, olives, oleander, carob, mastic tree and Aleppo pine. At heights of 1000-1500 m, forests of oak, beech and chestnut prevail, and above 2000 m - mountain coniferous-deciduous forests of beech, spruce, fir and pine. The remains of ancient forests are also found, where among others there are white ash, white poplar and eastern plane tree. Https: //ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%93%D0%B5%D0%BE%D0%B3%D1% 80% D0% B0%
              D1% 84%

              D0%B8%D1%8F_%D0%98%D1%82%D0%B0%D0%BB%D0%B8%D0%B8
              Ships were built from pine, cypress, spruce and oak. And in those days it was no longer a big problem to buy and bring boards from remote areas, ships went all over the Mediterranean, the Black Sea basin, and maybe even went from there around the Pyrenees to northern Europe.


              maybe wikipedia is enough already? After all, everyone who is not lazy is writing there,
              here is a view of a typical Greek forest and so everywhere, how can one build from such liquid woods? Yes, this is understandable because there is south, little rain, and where does the ship’s forest come from?
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. +2
                6 September 2015 23: 42
                more Greece, you can see a few stunted cypresses ...
                1. +1
                  8 September 2015 23: 45
                  The problem in Greece is the lack of water. From that and "stunted cypresses". And in northern Greece, the picture is different.
              3. 0
                21 October 2015 13: 57
                Quote: War and Peace
                maybe wikipedia is enough already? After all, everyone who is not lazy is writing there,

                duck and your sources are similar, not about them the phrase: "Chukchi is not a reader, Chukchi is a writer!"
            2. -3
              7 September 2015 00: 07
              Ships were built from pine, cypress, spruce and oak. And in those days it was no longer a big problem to buy and bring boards from remote areas, ships went throughout the Mediterranean, the Black Sea basin


              As always questions. One tree - one board? Or?????????? A lot of boards?
              If there are several boards from the trunk, then there should be a saw that cuts along. "Friendship" is called, like that.

              And what was the name of the century when the greatest fleets were built?

              When the pyramids were built, the century was copper-stone. Those. the main tools are stone, copper is too soft, but that's another story.

              In the days of the "great" legions, even an iron (and more often bronze) sword was piercing. Well, he could not cut, broke.

              Suppose there were all the same saws like Friendship))))), sawed trees both along and across. "Civilized" other Greeks and Romans they are, they could do anything.

              Question - where is the file ??? Yes, the very one with which the teeth are sharpened and bred soft and flimsy at the time of the saw ???????? ...... if it was ?????
            3. +2
              8 September 2015 23: 42
              I think that in ancient Rome, i.e. in ancient Italy, with forests it was no worse than in modern Portugal. Already something, but there are enough pines here now. The argument about the lack of forest for building a fleet is unconvincing. And yet, where did the Portuguese and Spanish take wood for ships in the era of the Great Geographical Discoveries?
              1. -2
                8 September 2015 23: 59
                Quote: izGOI
                I think that in ancient Rome, i.e. in ancient Italy, with forests it was no worse than in modern Portugal. Already something, but there are enough pines here now. The argument about the lack of forest for building a fleet is unconvincing. And yet, where did the Portuguese and Spanish take wood for ships in the era of the Great Geographical Discoveries?


                Well show the Portuguese forests? And as regards the great geographical discoveries, this is part of the GREAT HISTORICAL SUBSTITUTION, PORTUGAL is not a country in the Pyrenees, but PORTA is ATAMANIAN, and SPAIN is RUSSIA -ORDA, hence the forests.
                -n-ORt (D) -guliya -ORDA - HORDY COUNTRY, as we see in the name of toponyms the true meaning of the previous great n-ORDER,
                in Spain there is a national park ORDESA del perdida ...
          2. 0
            21 October 2015 13: 54
            Quote: War and Peace
            these are just words, there is no evidence ...

            where is your proof? only words, demagoguery and an attempt to prove their "monapoly" on historical knowledge through running into others.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  2. +5
    6 September 2015 09: 28
    The Romans were mostly famous for victories on land, they even invented a raven (a bridge with a beak) in order to quickly switch to boarding. It is true how many Romans were in the legions of Anthony is unknown, and Cleo must have been Egyptians and Greeks, and they were not particularly resilient, all the victories of the Spartans, Athenians, Thebans and Macedonians were in the past.
  3. +1
    6 September 2015 10: 03
    In the figure of triremes and quadriremes, I considered the rows of oars at the quadrireme well, two rows, maybe I'm already blind of course. it is amazing to the art of shipbuilders how it was possible with copper tools to build such splendor. Just making a log board is a problem. and here the fleets are built. But almost no carpentry tools were found at the excavations.
    1. ICT
      +4
      6 September 2015 10: 16
      Quote: Free Wind
      almost no excavations were found.


      such as the saws and axes of 300 years ago, it’s easy to find, and ships in those days were built for more
      1. +1
        7 September 2015 18: 13
        battle axes are dug up and older - they even single out a whole civilization of battle axes ...
    2. -1
      8 September 2015 03: 36
      how could one have such magnificence with brass instruments.


      The drawings show ships of the Iron Age. And little was done of copper, even in the "copper" age.

      But almost no carpentry tools were found at the excavations.


      And who saw a craftsman throwing a tool? And they didn’t put in the grave - the son inherited.

      Just making a log board is a problem. and here the fleets are built.


      The skill is not that. When the circular is at hand.
      But people were no more stupid than us. Spin. Found ways.
  4. -2
    6 September 2015 10: 19
    In the last two drawings, presumably reproductions of paintings from the Middle Ages or Renaissance, the ships are drawn correctly, with one row of oars, in contrast to the modern reconstructions shown in the previous drawings. Regardless of the name of the ship: bireme, triеer or decera, there could not be more than one row of oars. And the digital prefix, in the name of the ship, most likely indicated the number of rowers or some other indicator, I do not exclude that the displacement is in "conventional units". recourse
  5. +6
    6 September 2015 11: 14
    the fight for power between the two heirs of the slaughtered Caesar - Mark Antony and Guy Octavius ​​Furin.


    August Guy Julius Caesar Octavian along with Guy Julius Caesar - one of the key figures in world history, if that ...

    Why, for example, European monarchs were called "august persons" ??
    What word is used for German Kaiser ??

    So at Cape Promotions, everything was very serious ...
  6. ICT
    +4
    6 September 2015 11: 45
    Quote: War and Peace
    because many questions have accumulated


    only one answer to all asking questions:

    "smart seven years will not answer the questions he asks bugger ( BIG GREETS TO AUTO MODERATOR, I ALREADY WANTED TO WRITE) \fool. in one hour "

    let's say 50-70 years ago, there was an expression in itself,

    "cut down the house with one ax", this hour in all of Russia for sure not to find a person with such a skill,


    I repeat, there are a lot of mysteries in history, but that doesn’t mean that if we cannot answer them, then there was no history
    1. ICT
      0
      6 September 2015 11: 57
      smirk ....lol

    2. -5
      6 September 2015 12: 09
      Quote: TIT
      Quote: War and Peace
      because many questions have accumulated


      only one answer to all asking questions:

      "smart seven years will not answer the questions he asks bugger ( BIG GREETS TO AUTO MODERATOR, I ALREADY WANTED TO WRITE) \fool. in one hour "

      let's say 50-70 years ago, there was an expression in itself,

      "cut down the house with one ax", this hour in all of Russia for sure not to find a person with such a skill,


      I repeat, there are a lot of mysteries in history, but that doesn’t mean that if we cannot answer them, then there was no history


      Well, this is your level higher and you will not rise ...
      1. ICT
        +5
        6 September 2015 12: 32
        Quote: War and Peace
        Well, this is your level higher and you will not rise ...


        machine gun training courses lol (2.5 Godda Quaker, 5 years of contract = technician, engineer, group leader, hereinafter free man) we have enough in life,
    3. -2
      8 September 2015 03: 40
      cut down a house with one ax "


      But what about the euro-window with an ax then? belay
  7. -1
    6 September 2015 12: 38
    Nothing, crop note!
  8. +1
    6 September 2015 13: 42
    Quote: Severomor
    I like this topic - about rams and rams)))). It was always touching that a historical event, if of course it still happened, is reproduced according to "nirazu" not historical films. In this clinical case - the film "Cleopatra"

    I came across an article by Korystylev about 7 years ago. Now periodically in disputes I bring an article.
    In the article, Kostylev discusses the impossibility of building galleys with rows of oars more than one, as well as the impossibility of using wooden vessels to use massive rams. And also again, the complete impossibility of such machines of antiquity as a ballista and a catapult. The management of fleets without a SPECIAL PIPE was completely impossible, and this pipe was discovered by Galileo in the 16th century.



    Well, there is still

    If you believe the representatives of KVI, on the decks of ancient galleys (see above), various catapults, arcballists, doriboles, onagra and other stone-throwing devices towered with batteries. They fired at enemy ships with both cobblestones and pointed pegs and pots with "Greek fire."

    The saga about the pots is forced to sweep away from the threshold. No one will let you play with flammable liquids on a wooden ship. Incendiary arrows are another matter, they light them from the torch just before the shot, and even an arrow that fell onto the deck by accident does not pose a great danger. Well, fell, well, pick it up and throw it overboard. Another thing is when about twenty of these arrows yell firmly into the side: then don’t yawn, knock down the carcasses. And the "fire pots", gentlemen, are more dangerous for their ship than for the enemy.

    Move on. Our catapults are mounted on deck ... Which one? The design feature of the galley is precisely the absence of a clean deck, with the exception of small areas in the bow and stern - the tank and the utah. The catapult is a ragged structure, it has many long moving parts. Suppose we still managed to squeeze onto the tank and yut one at a time (no longer enter), so what? These two decks - the kingdom of deck sailors. All control of the sails is concentrated here, in the sense of all the running ends of the ship’s gear and the main part of the standing rigging. With the first shot we cut half of all these ropes! Even with the advent of a much more compact weapon, guns, armament galleys was a problem. As a rule, it was possible to dispense 5-7 small-caliber guns on the bow and stern platforms, and nothing more. This, in the end, ruined the galley: the gunboat with its large-caliber cannons simply survived its "retirement".

    In addition, we with our stone-throwers greatly interfere with archers and legionnaires, who already lack space, and then there are sailors, and here is Mr. Questor with his assistants, and here we have taken away the lion's share of space.


    And what, our comrade Ko (ry) is cold, I don’t know how to do it right, the ultimate truth? And here is the tackle WHEN PROPELLER GALERS ON OARS. And who said that you can't fit galleys with pots of "Greek fire" when it comes to who will take the throne?
  9. 0
    6 September 2015 20: 10
    Respect to the author ...
    Thanks ... interesting ....
    Roman trireme and quadrireme with combat towers and boarding gangways.

    I would like to throw a fly in the ointment (not for self-interest) .... These things -trireme and kvadritriema are a figment of the imagination of modern geniuses of history .... An article about it was, everything was understood in detail ... the length of the oar is at least 15 meters, how much is it will turn? What is the efficiency? By the way, ancient courts are being created now .... and with no problems at the same time ... but ... when they were going to create "three rows", they counted ... it's impossible ...
    and so, you can draw anything beautifully))))
    1. 0
      6 September 2015 21: 46
      ancient ships are creating now .... and with any equilibrium problems


      Probably the inhabitants of Ancient Greece, and later Ancient Rome, possessed some secret technologies that did not reach us. Everything was burned by fire or destroyed by barbarians.

      It's time to erect a monument to the unknown nomad (s) drinks
    2. -1
      6 September 2015 21: 46
      ancient ships are creating now .... and with any equilibrium problems


      Probably the inhabitants of Ancient Greece, and later Ancient Rome, possessed some secret technologies that did not reach us. Everything was burned by fire or destroyed by barbarians.

      It's time to erect a monument to the unknown nomad (s) drinks
    3. 0
      8 September 2015 03: 48
      I would like to throw a fly in the ointment (not for self-interest) .... These things -trireme and kvadritriema are a figment of the imagination of modern geniuses of history .... An article about it was, everything was understood in detail ... the length of the oar is at least 15 meters, how much is it will turn? What is the efficiency? By the way, ancient courts are being created now .... and with no problems at the same time ... but ... when they were going to create "three rows", they counted ... it's impossible ...
      and so, you can draw anything beautifully))))


      Just the reconstructors succeeded.
      1. 0
        8 September 2015 09: 17
        Quote: Aljavad
        I would like to throw a fly in the ointment (not for self-interest) .... These things -trireme and kvadritriema are a figment of the imagination of modern geniuses of history .... An article about it was, everything was understood in detail ... the length of the oar is at least 15 meters, how much is it will turn? What is the efficiency? By the way, ancient courts are being created now .... and with no problems at the same time ... but ... when they were going to create "three rows", they counted ... it's impossible ...
        and so, you can draw anything beautifully))))


        Just the reconstructors succeeded.


        They stopped talking about it a long time ago, but it’s a trireme, but the MOST IMPORTANT thing is that the OARS on this boat are made of MODERN MATERIALS, but if they were made of wood, they would become heavy, in short, this reconstruction is fiction again ...
        1. 0
          8 September 2015 15: 53
          It remains to place the catapults, stone-throwers with a supply of stones)))))), find a place for magic fire pots, allocate space for the boarding team and go)))))))))
  10. +2
    6 September 2015 22: 37
    The floating palace of Caligula. Found in a lake near Rome and raised by order of Mussolini. How do you like displacement?
    Still, one should not think of the ancients as idiots.
    1. -2
      6 September 2015 23: 49
      Quote: RiverVV
      The floating palace of Caligula. Found in a lake near Rome and raised by order of Mussolini. How do you like displacement?
      Still, one should not think of the ancients as idiots.


      Well, where is it? seems burned out? well, it’s so with the tradiks, all the sources burned out, all the artifacts burned out, the archives of the Russian Academy of Sciences burned out, and what is left is destroyed by the Arabs-bandits, Igilovites, friends of the United States and Israel ...
      1. 0
        7 September 2015 06: 00
        "It drowned." :( Then it was raised. Before considering the ancestors stupid, look in the mirror.
        Here is another example of ancient technology. Can you repeat it on a 1: 1 scale?
        1. 0
          7 September 2015 09: 06
          Quote: RiverVV
          "It drowned." :( Then it was raised. Before considering the ancestors stupid, look in the mirror.
          Here is another example of ancient technology. Can you repeat it on a 1: 1 scale?


          The Italian government built a huge museum on the banks of the Nemi, where the Caligula barges were exhibited until 1944. The Germans, retreating under the onslaught of the allied forces, burned down the museum and its unique exhibits, so that now visitors to the restored museum are forced to content themselves with viewing models of famous ships executed on a scale of 1: 5: ..

          http://www.bibliotekar.ru/chip/5.htm
          "drowned" or burned out, don't you even know that?
          1. -1
            7 September 2015 10: 05
            Are you normal at all? At first it was built. For Caligula. Then it drowned. In the lake. Then they lifted him. Then they burned it.
            Are you roaming?
            1. -1
              7 September 2015 11: 52
              Quote: RiverVV
              Are you normal at all? At first it was built. For Caligula. Then it drowned. In the lake. Then they lifted him. Then they burned it.
              Are you roaming?


              the fact that it was built is beyond doubt, doubts about the other WHO BUILT? Caligula? This still needs to be proved, but it is impossible to prove, because the artifact burned down and only a fairy tale-legend remained that the caligula, they say, built, and not leonardo davinci or mussolini, in fact, this is the same myth as the "great" Chinese wall-front type near Beijing, for the divorce of tourist suckers. So, when they say that "blessed fire" and does not burn, then you need to bring proof, uncle ...
              1. +2
                7 September 2015 12: 15
                To paraphrase Carroll: when reading your posts, I think about things with the letter "y". Of course the Chinese wall was built by Mao. I personally carried bricks. On all fifty walls that have survived to our time. The pyramids were built by aliens, and ancient shelters dug up the Black Sea. :)))

                Well, think it yourself: how many people went to earthworks while digging this ancient Roman barge? What, the Gestapo intimidated everyone and took a subscription to talk only about Caligula? Conspirology should also be in moderation, and you already have it creeping from all ears.
                1. 0
                  7 September 2015 14: 34
                  Of course, Mao built the Chinese wall. Personally dragged bricks

                  And what is wrong? Is there any mention of the "Great Wall of China"? Marco Polo didn't see her point-blank? Did you see it in the 50s of the 20th century?
                  Gestapo scared everyone

                  In Italy? That's why you write THIS? No mind, count KALEKA!
                  1. +1
                    7 September 2015 15: 24
                    No, it is the Gestapo. So worse. Or do you disagree, a descendant of ancient Ukrainian?

                    As for the great walls of China ... You are for the sake of interest google, how many of them. They, by the way, are available on the territory of the Russian Federation, and in Mongolia too
                    1. -1
                      7 September 2015 18: 58
                      Quote: RiverVV
                      No, it is the Gestapo. So worse. Or do you disagree, a descendant of ancient Ukrainian?

                      As for the great walls of China ... You are for the sake of interest google, how many of them. They, by the way, are available on the territory of the Russian Federation, and in Mongolia too


                      following your logic, if the Chinese walls in our territory, then this territory is not ours, but Chinese, so what? such a protradik position stinks of treason ...
                      1. -3
                        8 September 2015 11: 08
                        I imagined how Mao sends crowds of workers to our territory and they pour the remains of ancient structures there. Imagine this to yourself, and then start digging an anti-Chinese shelter.
                      2. -1
                        8 September 2015 23: 48
                        Quote: RiverVV
                        I imagined how Mao sends crowds of workers to our territory and they pour the remains of ancient structures there. Imagine this to yourself, and then start digging an anti-Chinese shelter.


                        fart, ernichainite, you can’t speak normally anymore, just grimace? Your time goes by, not all the trampled artifacts were destroyed by the Tradicians, the earth has preserved a lot of things from the previous reality, and you and the likes of the tomcat obscurantism can only crap on the forums ...
                    2. The comment was deleted.
    2. yan 2015
      +2
      7 September 2015 22: 56
      technologies of the ancient world in construction are still surprising in their reliability. Coliseum. Parthenon. the same Pyramids .. well, the Caligula floating palace. is impressive.

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