Roscosmos abandoned nuclear installation

Roscosmos will not create an interorbital tug with a nuclear electromotive installation. In the text of the draft space program, it is mentioned only in the context of the scientific and technical reserve for promising spacecraft, reports Lenta.ru report.

Previously, with the help of an engine with a nuclear reactor, Roscosmos planned to make manned flights to the moon after 2030. In 2012, the idea was supported by the then head of the agency, Vladimir Popovkin.

“At present, astronauts will be sent to a natural satellite of the Earth not earlier than 2035 of the year with the help of an oxygen-hydrogen inter-orbital tug MOB-KVTK, which allows a cargo weighing up to 38 tons to be removed from near-Earth orbit to the Moon,” the publication notes.

Nuclear engines, if they find their use, are supposed to be used for more distant flights, for example, to Mars.

The project entitled “Creating a transport and energy module based on a megawatt-class nuclear power plant” was approved by the president’s commission at 2010. The engine was assigned to Keldysh Center and the RSC Energia was assigned to the vehicle. The project was allocated 17 billion rubles.

In Roskosmos they do not comment on the situation, and in the “Keldysh Center” they say that they continue to work in accordance with their previous commitments.

According to a competent source, work on a nuclear installation can be "transferred to a closed (military) part of the Federal space program."

Comments

[Finches]

I see ... Money is over! As there Saltykov-Shchedrin:"They let the Balanians down, the Fitanese were given out, they wrote them down in the loro and nostro, but the money is bye-bye"

[meriem1]

no !!! just encrypted. Looks like a breakthrough technology has come to the fore.

[Finches]

In theory, such programs would not have to be very open!

[Inok10]

Quote: meriem1

no !!! just encrypted. Looks like a breakthrough technology has come to the fore.

.. judging by this phrase ..

According to a competent source, work on a nuclear installation can be "transferred to a closed (military) part of the Federal space program."

.. MO RF saw, said .. thing! .. let's syudy, imagine something else for yourself .. and absolutely true ..

[scientist]

Quote: Inok10

MO RF saw, said .. thing! .. let's syudy, you’ll come up with something else .. and absolutely right

The point is not the desire of Moscow Region, but the commercial component. Unlike the Moscow Region, Roscosmos, like any other commercial company in the World, simply cannot afford the huge costs of such global projects. Also, at one time a rocket was created for Gagarin, based on the ballistic R-7.
And the Moscow Region will quickly find effective military applications of a nuclear power plant, and when the technology is developed as with the R-7, it will be transferred to Roskosmos or Minatom.

[Volgroo]

I remembered about Wang. I said so. Only Russians can fly to Mars and the Moon. Probably due to this engine. Others will not.

[World Cup 2014]

tape.ru can only issue fakes.

[Alexey M]

I’m wondering where did Korolev want to fly to Mars?
Somehow, "space" has recently "blown away" around the world. All plans are postponed until 2030, China has generally quieted down, although it threatened to make its station. The Americans closed the shuttles, and that's it, there are no new ships yet. The participants are trying there, but the result while whiter than modest.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Alexey M

Somehow "space" has recently "blown away" around the world.

Americans seem to be bringing their superheavy rocket SLS - Space Launch Sistem, but the question arises - is there a carrier, but what will be removed with its help? So you are most likely right (sadly enough to admit this) - you should not expect bright and ambitious space projects in the near future ...

[A-Sim]

The feeling of an imminent and inevitable world conflict freezes ...

[gridasov]

You quite rightly noted that space themes have been suspended in many directions. But the answers are pretty simple. People can be fooled, but not endlessly. Space technologies have reached critical levels, after which it is impossible to move forward, since everything is simply destroyed, and according to the scientific process, the destruction of processes that should have been developed occurs, and they change the vector to the side, to put it mildly the opposite. The desire of the customers to create heavy rockets with a high payload rested on the impossibility of tearing them off the Earth. What is the problem? In turbo fuel pumps that operate on physical principles that cannot be analyzed. And they just "lock" these processes. The desire to put more propellers pulls the problem of weight and volume of fuel. They don't know how to overcome this mathematical dependence in the practice of life, because by some experiments they will spin around the bush or pound water in a mortar and poke like blind kittens into the wall. Without deepening the analysis and methodologies for comprehending complex information-capacitive processes, it is impossible to understand even in which direction to move.

[donavi49]

For the sake of competition, well, and various studies. However, then little knew about the same Mars. Now the whole package of tasks that faced the missions of the Queen and NASA is solved by rovers and orbital robots.

It is much cheaper to remove them, they do not need oxygen, water, food, they are not afraid of radiation. Robotics ousted astronauts from most of their tasks.

Therefore, everyone cooled to the lunar base - why? Current technologies do not allow the efficient use of lunar fuel and the project is unbearable today even for the whole world, this is precisely if we talk about stable and mass production and delivery to Earth.

On Mars, the benefits are even more foggy. In the sense of none. It’s better to collect and send robots, what the Europeans and NASA actually do.

Fly on - there is no technology even for robots.

Therefore, such stagnation. The entire necessary research package with people is provided by the ISS. The rest is robots.

[gridasov]

The human brain works according to a more advanced analysis technique than any known device. Therefore, in the analysis of new, I would say critical flows of information, since a person has never had contact with many at all, it is more profitable to use a person because the objectivity of information will be more accurate.
I repeat once again. We can obtain information within such limited parameters that it loses its meaning, in general, in such expeditions.
We can also say that within the framework of our planet, there are more than enough such "spaces" to first work out technologies here, and then in outer space.

[Alexey M]

Here we can already talk about all the general degradation of SCIENCE.
Look at the modern scientific world. IT TECHNOLOGIES occupy the largest part.

[region58]

Quote: Alexey M

Somehow "space" has recently "blown away" around the world.

A rude century, rude manners, no romanticism ... (c) But in essence - in my opinion, they decided that there would be nothing for a man to do machines, because it is expensive and troublesome.

[KaPToC]

Quote: Alexey M

I’m wondering where did Korolev want to fly to Mars?

The enormous tension of the forces of the whole planet to send one (several) people to Mars? For industrial space exploration, the energy of chemical fuel is not enough, even for the exploration of the moon.

[Ze Kot]

Quote: Alexey M

I’m wondering where did Korolev want to fly to Mars?

So one way is not so difficult

[RiverVV]

Well, the dough was allocated a little. What is 17 lard? Just tin mock riveted enough.

[mishastich]

How about just being kept secret?

[rotmistr60]

work on a nuclear installation can be "transferred to the closed (military) part of the Federal Space Program."

Such developments simply must be closed. And so in due time so many of our secrets flowed west that the damage done by this could not be counted.

[castle]

For example, the Tu-4 (a copy of the American B-29), the A-4 rocket (a copy of the German V-2), the RD-10 engine (a copy of the German Junkers Jumo 004B), the RDS-1 bomb, and much more from Soviet developments flowed west. I jerk, but you don’t give us another way.

[Amurets]

By the way, rocket-4 and V-2 are one and the same. But these developments and many others sharply moved not only the science and technology of not only the USSR, but also the USA where most German developments fell. And it’s not known what could have fallen on our heads if Hitler had not banned developments that could not have been completed in more than six months. So don’t have to jerk. Without Werner von Braun’s work, the Americans would not soon fly into space. And don’t think that Americans didn’t use our products. It’s just not advertised.

[Nick]

Quote: rotmistr60

work on a nuclear installation can be "transferred to the closed (military) part of the Federal Space Program."

Such developments simply must be closed. And so in due time so many of our secrets flowed west that the damage done by this could not be counted.

Most importantly, our scientists continue to generate new "secrets"

[Engineer]

Why would the Keldysh Center again reinvent the wheel, if KBHA already has RD0410? And what about their magnetoplasmodynamic engines?

[Wedmak]

If memory serves, the thrust of such an engine is small and it is suitable only for small spacecraft.

[gridasov]

Of course! However, the engine itself does not show its effectiveness, not for the level of application under which it is planned, but the ideology in it. She is completely unproductive. The balance of processes that are the basis for the creation of energy of the necessary effect does not fit into the part that forms the intensity of the return and the entire complex of the preliminary stage.

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Quote: mishastich

How about just being kept secret?

Apparently the way it is ....

work on a nuclear installation can be “transferred to a closed (military) unit

They obviously came up with something!

[Jurkovs]

Well, here's another load for the Angara-5 evaporated. At the end of the year, the President will approve the expenses for the period 2016-2030, (they say the dates on the Moon will shift sharply to the right), see if Angara itself remains there.

[Albert1988]

Quote: Jurkovs

Well, here's another load for the Angara-5 evaporated.

And who told you that? In the article, in general, the headline is extremely inconsistent with the content - some newspaper wrote that the project supposedly was closed, only the project developers for some reason do not know about it ...

[Amurets]

Oxygen-kerosene engines have reached the limit of perfection. I don’t know how we are working out oxygen-hydrogen. They postpone Angara launches on Vostochny. And now nuclear engines have been postponed. Yes, our affairs in space are unimportant. Or maybe they are thinking of flying under a solar sail?

[Diviz]

Only breakthrough technology should save money. This prevents others from working. Such a mess. World War 3 will begin; I won’t be surprised if we have flying saucers.

[Izotovp]

For the Martian program, an on-board nuclear reactor was developed to a large extent as a power source, and not as a mover.

[Mountain shooter]

We were not talking about a nuclear engine. Nuclear power plant for powering plasma engines. Engines are slowly growing in power - there are already 10 kW. Our engines are ahead. The movements were strong with the Nuclear Power Plant, but there they were not talking about a reactor with a coolant and a turbine, but about thermocouples with nuclear fuel. Only while everything was either difficult or dangerous (if the weight was reduced due to protection). No breakthroughs along this path have yet been seen, work is underway, technologies, materials, etc. are being improved. There, a high-current electrician is also needed, with low losses, and excess heat must be utilized by radiation, and a lot of heat ...

[Svetlana]

The use of 3rd-generation high-temperature superconductors in magnetic coils of thermonuclear reactors (TNR), similar to tokamaks and spheromaki, will make it possible to obtain stronger magnetic fields (200 KiloGauss constant magnetic fields and 10 MegaGauss pulsed) in plasma chambers to hold plasma and switch to neutron-free thermonuclear reactions proton beams with lithium or boron plasma. The mass of radiation protection will be reduced, which will make it possible to use TNR on aircraft.

[gridasov]

Commenting on you, we can only say that all accelerators in the form of Tokomakov, Spheromakov form and have a fundamental design error, namely, that which proceeds from the fact that a torus is a derivative of a sphere with converged critical bipolarization nodes to a place where space can form the maximum voltage of this polarization. Therefore, it is difficult to talk with people who do not understand where and why SPIN arises from. And this means that the density of magnetic force flows forming the polarization of the so-called .el magnetic forces cannot be obtained in these devices, if you form the movement of el. particles on such vectors that are being organized now. And this is completely obvious and justified. You just need to know the elementary topology of space in the form of the formation of magnetic forces in it. streams.

[gridasov]

In addition to Brown, the Germans had other specialists who took a slightly different path of development, not even rocket science. in general, the concept of organizing a highly efficient flight in different environments. Everything, even open data, indicates what was being done and why. Look at the property of a known substance - liquid metal. Its key property is probably not worth repeating. This substance with the pronounced properties of a highly radioactive substance. But which is not such in a passive state. Create conditions for him and get so much email. magnetic energy of a new quality, which is in excess and can be removed to the surface planes of the aircraft. In addition, it is not exhaustible because it works in a closed loop and does not emit life-threatening radiation. Most likely, it does not emit, since a significant part of the energy goes to the transformation of atomic-molecular transformations. In this case, there will be no chemical reactions like the interaction of two component or multicomponent chemicals. reactions. All processes of energy release, in the form of necessary, are the result of a change only in the state of this substance. And so that there is no heat generation, form the magnetic force flows in such a way that they harmonize along the direction vectors. Therefore, everyone would have to figure out what to take for a nuclear engine, propulsion or power plant. All this is one and the same, but at different levels of application potential, but in one principle of organizing the process in them.

[Aleksandr1959]

As for the development and testing of NRE, you can read the links: http://everythings.narod.ru/tech/russia_star_yard.htm
http://rocketpolk44.narod.ru/stran/yrd.htm

[gridasov]

What is the essence of so-called nuclear installations based on radioactive material, if we are talking about such. The fact that the potential energy or density of e-mail is hidden in a radioactive substance. magnetic processes in a certain scale of these disturbances, which is different from the external background of interactions. However, the lack of understanding. that in addition to certain critical states of matter such as solid, liquid, gaseous, there is also a dynamic state. Therefore, the conversation can and should go not only about the fact that "weakly radioactive" substances can be increased in the potential of internal nuclear or, more precisely, el. magnetic interactions at the nuclear level, but also from radially directed radiation vectors of the corresponding parameters of perturbations, to turn into linear. Thereby increasing the energy density in the bipolar direction. And that's not all. The possibility of overcoming or achieving supersonic speeds in the device and at the same time ensuring its rotation stability without destructive centrifugal processes allows, according to our technology, using practically any solid phase substance to turn into radioactive, while raising the potential of its internal interactions at the nuclear level. We have to significantly simplify the presentation of the form of subsequent reactions of opponents. In general, nuclear technologies should not be abandoned as this will aggravate the process of deepening knowledge.

[Vladimir 1964]

Yes, you, gridasov, well done, did not understand anything, but how it sounds, how it sounds ..... cool !!!

[gridasov]

Я могу напомнить , что в рамках современной науки известно , что электрон меняет массу при его ускорении . Это ведь не я придумал! А теперь представьте , что любой объект пространства имеющий мерность или относительную размерность , значит должен иметь структуру поляризации ,которая в свою очередь описывается свойствами магнитных силовых потоков. А теперь представьте себе , что любое вещество это структура взаимодействий не просто электронов , которые составляют фрактальные структуры атомов и молекул , а групп разно поляризованных по уровню таких эл. частиц. Так вот . Как изменить потенциальную энергию любого вещества состоящего из групп этих элементарных частиц по всем радиальным уровням . Ответ однозначен. И этим методом все успешно пользуются в том числе и в ядерных ускорителях. Но на уровне простых , если так можно сказать взаимодействий нужно не стрелять по "мишеням" и получать избыток энергии , а совершать не более сложное действие , чтобы получить трансформацию обычного вещества и получать избыток энергии и к тому же без промежуточных этапов его трансформации. Космос же упрощает все эти эффекты поскольку исчезает фоновое гравитационное воздействие от ЗЕМЛИ. Опыты проведенные на орбите со всей доказательностью подтверждают наши рассуждения. Просто ученые занимающиеся этим рассматривают все в несколько ином методе и восприятия и анализа.

[Ze Kot]

Quote: Vladimir 1964

Yes, you, gridasov, well done, did not understand anything, but how it sounds, how it sounds ..... cool !!!

Combine radiation from several sources into one beam to increase power. And to make radioactive any other materials to gain new opportunities.

[gridasov]

In principle, you are absolutely right. Only it’s still simpler — one source of momentum with a diluted stream and a spin attached to it and then again reduced to a point gives enormous energy in the form of a huge voltage between the ends of such a device. In fact, we are now talking about a DC transformer. I considered this development ten years ago. Otherwise, this device works on the principle of creating a standing wave, which does not work according to the amplitude of the pendulum, but to increase the rotation moment or spin of the magnetic flux. By the way, this device is very simple and can be used to send email. energy over long distances without step-up transformers, like substations.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: gridasov

What is the essence of so-called nuclear installations based on radioactive material, if we are talking about such. The fact that the potential energy or density of e-mail is hidden in a radioactive substance. magnetic processes in a certain scale of these disturbances, which is different from the external background of interactions. However, the lack of understanding. that in addition to certain critical states of matter such as solid, liquid, gaseous, there is also a dynamic state. Therefore, the conversation can and should go not only about the fact that "weakly radioactive" substances can be increased in the potential of internal nuclear or, more precisely, el. magnetic interactions at the nuclear level, but also from radially directed radiation vectors of the corresponding parameters of perturbations, to turn into linear. Thereby increasing the energy density in the bipolar direction. And that's not all. The possibility of overcoming or achieving supersonic speeds in the device and at the same time ensuring its rotation stability without destructive centrifugal processes allows, according to our technology, using practically any solid phase substance to turn into radioactive, while raising the potential of its internal interactions at the nuclear level. We have to significantly simplify the presentation of the form of subsequent reactions of opponents. In general, nuclear technologies should not be abandoned as this will aggravate the process of deepening knowledge.

Hyperboloid engineer Garin.

[gridasov]

If this was not a priority for those who will possess such technologies, then it is quite easy to lay out simple material in an accessible form of understanding for those who, at least, desire it. Therefore, I understand your irony. But we are talking about things that modern technologies of metal processing, etc. will allow us to build equipment in the basic version within a day, and not years and decades. Therefore, I would not associate the specifics of knowledge and techniques with works of art

[sir.jonn]

Quote: gridasov

Therefore, I would not associate the specifics of knowledge and techniques with works of art

For all the variety of principles for constructing technical solutions, the unprecedented influence of artistic expositions on this product cannot be ruled out, otherwise the works of theorists who have immortalized and have proved their name precisely thanks to literature can be called insignificant.

[gridasov]

I dare not agree with you. Indeed, many writers, science fiction writers, artists and other creative people at the core use the same method of environmental analysis. Just on extradition, like a transformed analysis, it looks as individual as the creator sees it. After all, to get information about a person it is enough to look at his reasoning and creativity, if any. I just didn’t think of moving away from the main topic of discussion, so I used these words.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: gridasov

I dare not agree with you. Indeed, many writers, science fiction writers, artists and other creative people at the core use the same method of environmental analysis. Just on extradition, like a transformed analysis, it looks as individual as the creator sees it. After all, to get information about a person it is enough to look at his reasoning and creativity, if any. I just didn’t think of moving away from the main topic of discussion, so I used these words.

I just wanted to shorten your comment on the work of my beloved A.N. Tolstoy in my childhood, because he publicly transformed the idea of ​​parallel radiation capabilities into the masses.

[gridasov]

I totally agree. And there are still very interesting aspects of working with information that can be convicted into codes, numbers, their flows, a set of numbers as algorithms, and therefore whole system processes, which can have both dynamics and potential. Indeed, all modern mathematics in its fundamental part is built on the search for a unified and correct solution. Right? And I agree with you. which is true. BUT!!! it turns out that the disposition of one and only correct solution having no alternative cannot be perceived as the only logically evaluated solution. That is, the position of a single look at such a decision makes it possible for another person to protest this position (to any extent its assessment) since this person is already in a topologically different space and its place, which is already determined by a complex of other interactions. That is, logically, we are already considering the same mathematical solution as a system of symmetries. And it means, in addition to the binary alternative, there may be a system based on all the numbers of the series. What does it mean ? This means that mathematics based on the search for one and only correct solution cannot give an objective idea of ​​this solution. That is, for simple static circumstances as solutions, this can be used wherever you go, but for highly dynamic turbulent ones, just like that. Consider all that I'm talking about is mathematics, not the fruit of philosophical reasoning.

[sir.jonn]

Quote: gridasov

What does it mean ? This means that mathematics based on the search for one and only correct solution cannot give an objective idea of ​​this solution.

Yes, without a bazaar. It's all to blame for the inconstancy of numbers, which is justified by a multitude of unknowns in any process, including the specifics of the behavior of derivatives of nuclear fusion. A full analysis is needed, "

Quote: gridasov

highly dynamic turbulent

processes
and it would not be useless in the near future, including the period until these studies are applicable in the processes we operate.

[gridasov]

This is the hidden secret of numbers, which is from the time when these numbers began to be used as an element of calculations. forgot about another function of numbers. The numbers are exactly the same if they are given the properties of a vector in mathematical space and a "potential" in relation to each other. What then? Then any number will always have a completely exact disposition in the relative space of their interactions with the same complexes. And then the number with variables will always become constant in every dynamically changing system. With the variable property of numbers, you can do static and low-potential calculations. And highly dynamic processes can be analyzed only and only with the function of number as constant and always and under any conditions with a certain place and meaning. Then the speed as such has a completely different definition and the space is analyzed by the processes of distribution of algorithmic flows of these numbers in their pure expression, according to - not vectors, but according to the properties contained in the essence of the number itself. This is incredible, but don't think I came up with it personally. I only have the ability to see and analyze what others cannot. No more. Therefore, I tell you that any number can be expressed, namely, by the structure of the position of the entire nat. a series of numbers. We write numbers linearly and sequentially. They record numbers radially and build a recording system based on the principle of interconnected variance. That is, the space is assessed as potential in its variations of transformations. In addition, it is always dynamic in its mathematical, if I may say so, transformations, which means it is dynamic in changes. That is, for a general understanding, you can look at a person to understand how not only his genome is built, but how each and not a cell works, but a molecule and an atom. After all, everything is interconnected in all vectors and in the potential of these points. It is also obvious that the ding method is such a mat. analysis does not exclude the other. They are compatible and have, apparently, borderline leaps.
So far, it is possible to substantiate hydro-gas-dynamic turbulent processes and define them in development algorithms. And this is cardinally enough to change a lot. And it went and went interspersed with what it would provoke as a positive reaction and vice versa.

[Gomel]

Of all the articles, the most accurate and true is the last paragraph.
such a breakthrough business was naturally transferred to the military unit and naturally accelerated the work and naturally will not comment. The Gorbachev-Yeltsin time of openly spreading secret information has passed.

[MolGro]

"Transferred to the closed (military) part of the Federal Space Program."
Apparently the result exceeded expectations and the military dragged the project away!
By the way, it also happened on antimatter after they found a way to capture it, all references disappeared. For this reason, we are building new accelerators) !!

[for]

There is nothing to transfer to the military field, and there is nothing to secret.
Normal engineering task.
And in such an elegant way the scientists decided to "save face", they say, we would have done it, but you see, bad and narrow-minded officials cut the funding.

[srelock]

"The director of the Keldysh Center, Anatoly Koroteev, noted that Roskosmos has not yet informed him about the rejection of development work on the topic of a nuclear engine.

- If Roskosmos sent this version of the FKP for approval, then let him agree on it. But we continue to work within the framework of the project approved by the commission under the President of the Russian Federation for the modernization and technological development of the Russian economy, - says Koroteev. - This project is designed until 2018, we have funding for it, and I see no reason to cry ahead of time. Whether there will be nuclear issues in the final version of FKP-2025 is another question. But the project was discussed at a very high level, and we were advised to speed up the work, but there was no question that the money would be taken away. Yes, there are many difficulties during the implementation of this project, but I do not see any financial problems yet. "
Adapted from the original article http://izvestia.ru/news/590819

[shinobi]

The electron-nuclear installation in the form in which it was offered a very low efficiency. The only plus in the small amount of reactive mass for plasma dvigunov. The absence of radioactive exhaust, a positive moment, but low thrust and the difficulty of cooling nullifies the advantages. The deadlock path. Most likely will be in further procrastinate the topic of double-circuit nuclear dviguns with a closed reactor core of the primary circuit and gas-dynamic cooling by the reactive mass (working fluid) of the secondary circuit. Winning in overall dimensions and simplifying cooling systems.

[gridasov]

Right word, talk about nothing. Because . that a process model is being considered. and only then the model of organization of this process in the device is considered. And not otherwise. That is, such a device or model is not only not effective, but also with a complete lack of quality factor. Otherwise, it simply does not have a temporary resource of use.

[meriem1]

And latent all minus. They do not believe in their homeland. Everything is measured by Americans (((Disgrace !!!