Finland arms its Hornets with cruise missiles

In 2007, Finland wanted to secretly buy low-profile AGM-158 JASSM cruise missiles from Lockheed Martin to arm its Hornet F / A-18C / D fighters. Despite history good relationship, the US Department of State in 2007 refused.

Fast forward to 2008 year. Russia's invasion of Georgia and the reaction of Germany upset many settlements in the region. As NATO weakens, the Scandinavian countries are moving in the direction of unofficial weapons with their own compact defenses. Finland, whose memories of the Russian invasion are still alive, reiterated its request to acquire unobtrusive cruise missiles. In 2011, Finland finally got what it wanted ...

Rockets: JSOW, SLAM-ER, JASSM and Taurus

Actually, the only serious threat for Finland comes from Russia, which is deploying a fleet of modern fighters and blocking them with belts of air defense missiles. The Finnish Hornets were originally intended to protect the airspace of Finland in the event of a new Russian attack, while direct support for the troops in combat was assigned secondary roles. The acquisition of cruise missiles with low radar visibility gives them a third potential role: the ability to strike back at enemy targets and targets in near Finland, with much greater chances of success than bombs on F / A-18C. The Russians understand this, which is why the Finnish request has become a delicate problem for the US Department of State.

Finland is looking for rockets that would already be integrated and qualified on the F / A-18 Hornet and would combine low radar visibility with GPS / infrared image guidance and a standard deviation from the target of less than 10 meters. Raytheon AGM-154 JSOW, Boeing AGM-84K SLAM-ER, Lockheed Martin AGM-158 JASSM and MBDA / EADS / Saab Taurus KEPD 350 were candidates for this role. They are all subsonic.

Raytheon's AGM-154 JSOW stands alone in this group because most of its versions do not have an engine. Weapon weighs just under 500 kg (1100 pounds) and uses classic GPS / infrared combined guidance. However, it is a planning bomb and uses its wings and body shape to create lift while maneuvering towards the target. This allows the bomb to be used at a distance of 22-130 km (14-80 miles), depending on the altitude and speed it was dropped. At this distance, it acts as a cruise missile, albeit with some compromises during sharp maneuvering. JSOWs are in great demand with many US allies. The most recent modification is the AGM-154C-1 JSOW Block III, which includes a 2-band data line for retargeting weapons in flight, and also has the ability to hit enemy ships. The JSOW-ER variant even has a small turbojet engine that allows the bomb to fly up to 500 km (300 miles) at low speed, but this model is still being tested.

Finland has requested a limited set of AGM-154C JSOW weapons for testing and can still select them as a short-range precision weapons for use along with long-range cruise missiles.

The AGM-84K SLAM-ER rocket manufactured by Boeing is derived from the Harpoon naval missile, but in addition it has wings, changes in hull shape, hover and some other changes. Powered by an air-jet engine, the 725 kilogram (1600 lb) SLAM-ER has an effective range of 280 km (150 nautical miles) and carries the 360 kilogram (800-lb) warhead. The two-way communication channel allows you to watch the video transmitted from the rocket and redirect it in flight. The company's customers are the US Navy, South Korea and Turkey, but Finland has not publicly expressed interest in this rocket.

The Lockheed Martin corporation AGM-158 JASSM rocket has an uneasy history of development, the program faced a number of forced delays and threats of closure. In fact, JASSM is only integrated with F / A-18 because the US Navy was once a partner - before they were trimmed in the 2005 fiscal year and ordered SLAM-ER. Turbojet 1020 kilogram (2250 lb.) JASSM can carry an 1000-lb. warhead over a range of 320 km (200 miles) while transmitting data through a single-lane communication channel. Since it is considered a rocket with the lowest radar visibility, the US Air Force considers it as a rocket occupying a decisive role in the fight against targets protected by sophisticated long-range air defense systems.

The USAF is the main customer of JASSM. Australia also ordered it, but with a list of reservations. Orders can also come from Holland, South Korea and Finland, the latter for a number of years focused on JASSM. In October 2011, the US Department of Defense finally gave official consent to requests from Finland.

The Taurus KEPD rocket is the result of a multinational effort led by EADS LFK and Saab Bofors Dynamics AB, and also implemented through MBDA. KEPD-350 weighs 1400 kg (3086 pounds), this is more than JASSM, and its stealth features are described as "moderate" because it did not use an absorbing coating for X-ray masking. The turbofan rocket relies on low maneuverability and the ability to carry additional fuel to deliver its 500 kilogram (1100 pound) MEPHISTO warhead to the effective range of 350 km (210 miles). There are currently no flight data or retargeting links. Spain has ordered KEPD-350 for its EF-18, Germany for its Tornado and Euroffighters, and finally Sweden, is expected to order it for its JAS-39 Gripen fighter. With the formal publication in the 2011 of the US Department of Defense about JASSM, hopes that Finland will leave KEPD-350 as “Plan B” have largely disappeared.

Contracts & Key Events

October 31 2011: The US Department of Defense ultimately approves of Finland’s official request for the purchase of AGM-158 JASSM cruise missiles. Finland will receive AGM-70 cruise missiles, 158 test vehicles, as well as support and test equipment, manuals and technical documentation, personnel training and training equipment, as well as support from the US government and private contractors. The estimated contract value is $ 2 million.

The State Department's Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) continues to chant Finland as a force for ensuring stability in Europe, which makes their previous failures and delays difficult to explain. The agency stresses that “The proposed sale of this equipment and subsequent support will not change the basic military balance in the region,” which is true, but their presence will provide Finland with significant deterrence capabilities that it did not have before.

1 April 2009: Finnish media reported that the government financial commission gave the go-ahead for 200 million euros to upgrade and purchase new equipment for the 67 and Finnish F / A-18 C / D Hornets, as part of the plan for 1 billion euros for the update the whole park to 2016 year. This permission includes the second request for the American JASSM missiles, Patria Oyj acts as an integrator on the Finnish side.

Finnish officials are reportedly optimistic. It is believed that this request will be approved. If not, then the documents received from YLE indicate that KEPD Taurus-350 will be a fallback for Finland. KEPD is a partner of EADS LFK, MBDA and Saab Bofors Dynamics, and the Taurus rocket is already integrated with the Spanish F / A-18 ("EF-18") Hornet.

9 September 2008: The Department of State Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA) announces Finland’s official request for the third phase of the F / A-63C and F / A-18D Hornet 18 modernization program. The contract could cost up to $ 406 million, and Boeing, a subsidiary of McDonnell Douglas in St. Louis, Missouri, will be the general contractor.

Finland has already begun to work on improving its air force with the introduction of suspended containers for targeting (LITENING targeting pod), modern air-to-air missiles AIM-120C-7 AMRAAM and AIM-9X Sidewinder, and other innovations.

Among the requested items: high-precision missile AGM-154C Joint Standoff Weapon (JSOW), as well as planning 15 precision bombs AGM-154C JSOW.Tak same unobtrusive guided weapons with a small radar reflective surface JSOWs Raytheon and something similar to the AGM-158 JASSM.

Comments

[APASUS]

The Finns are probably still influenced by Georgian chatter.

[Antagonist]

Quote: APASUS

Georgian chatter.

- Is that what it's called?

[datur]

APASUS,
The Finns are probably still under the influence of Georgian chatter .----- Yes, no, under the zombie influence of the Americans like the whole Baltic however

[Antagonist]

They all remember - 17, 39 and so on, occupied by Karelia. The sight of the fact that the Finns refused to clear the minefield for half a century, and even buy such weapons - that means they will not forget further.

[dmitri077]

"All of them remember - 17, 39, etc. years, occupied Karelia. The sight of the fact that the Finns refused to clear half a century of minefields, and even to buy such weapons, means they will not forget further." - it's just that no one trusts Russia, you can expect everything from it ... that's why even the quietest Finnish guys decided to be insured just in case

[ballian]

And what about Georgia ?? It is immediately clear that the Finns from the 2007 year wanted to buy this weapon.
In general, the reaction is ridiculous - on the one hand, to yell that Russia must arm itself to fight off the adversaries, and on the other hand, to present any ordinary arms purchases by another country as something out of the ordinary.
I’m silent that Finland is not a NATO member, unlike the Baltic countries, and there are no 100% guarantees that anyone will harness for it.

[gans]

every fool understands that we are arming ourselves against NATO and the mortals, and not against Finland, which by the way belonged to Russia before. But if the Finns start arming themselves, then questions arise, but they don’t need it

[Professor]

It is clearly written, the example of Georgia before their eyes. And the fact that they fought on the side of Hitler, it was not on the side of Stalin that they were to fight after what he arranged for them there.

[gans]

even before Georgia, they began to beg for weapons, but Stalin didn’t make much there, very few

[Antagonist]

Quote: gans

beg

- But they will not want to beech for the Soviet debts.

[LESHA pancake]

SO Fought AND KILLED OUR FATHER AND FATHER. THERE WASN'T THINKING ABOUT NEUTRALITY. THEREFORE, THE FINS ARE OUR POTENTIAL ENEMIES. AND WHICH GEORGIA IS CONCERNING, THERE TO SEE. IF ONE FROM THE Pindos mass media THERE ARE COMMENTS EXCEEDED.

[Jaguar]

The Warsaw Pact also did not have to be created according to your logic?

[Vadivak]

Quote: professor

it was not on Stalin’s side that they were at war after what he had arranged for them there.

Themselves asked do not forget that the USSR granted them independence

From 1809 to 1917, Finland was part of the Russian Empire. In December 1917, the Finns declared their independence, and soon the Council of People's Commissars (Soviet government) recognized it. In 1918, Finland launched a war against Soviet Russia, weakened by the Civil War. During the war, the Finns invaded Russian territories in Western Karelia and the Arctic. At the end of the war in 1920, the Tartu Peace Treaty was signed between the RSFSR and Finland. Under the agreement, Russia ceded to Finland the Pechenga region, the western part of the Rybachy peninsula, most of the Sredny peninsula, various islands in the Barents Sea, and the sea border established in the Gulf of Finland deprived Russia of access to international waters.
In the late 30s, fearing that anti-Soviet sentiment in Finland might be exploited by Hitler Germany in a future war with the Soviet Union, - through the territory of Finland, the Nazis could launch an attack on Leningrad, - Stalin began negotiations with the Finns. In 1939, during the negotiations, the Finns were invited to make an exchange of territories. One of the goals of the exchange was to ensure the security of Leningrad, since the distance from the border to Leningrad was only 32 kilometers. In case of war, the city could be occupied already in the very first days of the war. As Stalin said: “We ask that the distance from Leningrad to the border line would be seventy kilometers. These are our minimum requirements, and you should not think that we will reduce them. ” And he added witty: “We cannot move Leningrad, so the border line must be moved.”
At that time, Leningrad was the largest center of the Soviet defense industry. A bomber flying from the Finnish side in less than five minutes (!) Could reach the city center. Long-range artillery from the Finnish side, could hit almost any object in Leningrad.
In addition, the largest Soviet navy - the Baltic, was locked in the Gulf of Finland. Its only base in Kronstadt was viewed through binoculars from Finland. In the event of war, he could easily be fired from any artillery gun from the Finnish side. It is important to note that Stalin did not require the Finns to completely revise the results of the Soviet-Finnish war of 1918-1920, caring only about the security of the USSR, and offered the Finns twice as much territory as that which was requested in return.

[ballian]

Actually, a civil war was also going on in the territory of Karelia, and the local population was opposed to the Bolsheviks, in fact, the actions of the Finns came down to unofficial support for the Karelian separatists who rebelled against the Bolsheviks.

In the 39 year, there were no signs that Finland would converge with Germany, and in general it was the time of the most friendly relations between the USSR and Germany - according to the just signed agreement with Germany (Molotov-Ribbentrop), Finland was withdrawing into the sphere of the USSR and Germany could not go there, more with the troops.

The territory proposed by the USSR in exchange is a sparsely populated land unsuitable for economic activity - there is nothing to compare.

The ultimatum that the USSR presented to Finland on October 14, 39 went far beyond the "security of Leningrad" and sharply worsened the security of Finland in the event of a war with the USSR - this is its text.

http://www.runivers.ru/doc/d2.php?SECTION_ID=6776&CENTER_ELEMENT_ID=150947&PORTA


L_ID = 6776

As a result, the Finns would get a Soviet bridgehead for an offensive in 100 km from Helsinki (Hanko) - the Soviet excuse that in this way we want to block the sea approaches to Leningrad with artillery is ridiculous from a military point of view,
They lost part of the defensive "Mannerheim line" (point 3), and the one that remained with them disarmed (point 6)
, Finland was deprived of the opportunity to ally with countries that could help it repel the Soviet attack (for example, with the same France and Britain) (paragraph 5)
The demand to surrender part of the Rybachy Peninsula on the Kola Peninsula (point 3) cannot even theoretically have any relation to the security of Leningrad - but it allows the USSR to take control of the bay leading to the only Finnish port in the North, which is the only one that allows receiving military cargo from "Western democracies" ...

In fact, it can be assumed that if the Finns accepted the ultimatum in the future, they would receive new ultimatums about the model 39 - 40 years to the Baltic countries., But already in conditions that deteriorated sharply for the Finns ..
The fact that this is so is proved by real events - with the outbreak of war, the USSR threw off its mask and waged war to conquer Finland, and not the Karelian Isthmus at all.

[Vadivak]

Quote: ballian

There were no signs in 39 that Finland would converge with Germany.

Well, these two countries have long had a relationship, but in the Entente countries, the attitude towards Finland, which joined Germany (Kaiser Wilhelm's brother-in-law - Friedrich Karl of Hesse - was even elected king of Finland) was cool


In March - April 1918, the White Finns, with the help of Germany, liquidated the Social Democratic government and restored the bourgeois government in Finland, which canceled the Soviet-Finnish treaty and openly embarked on rapprochement with Germany.

Between 1930 and 1939 was the third round of the formation of Finland’s anti-Russian foreign policy, which directly set the stage for the emergence of the Winter War. In addition to the "Karelian Academic Society", in 1929 - 1931. In Finland, the so-called The Lapua (from Lapuas) movement, which is a fascist organization in the Finnish version. Lapuans declared the eastern border of Finland ... Ural! They openly called for the destruction of Leningrad and the "liberation" of Ingermanland, blasphemed the results of the Soviet-Finnish October agreement of 1920 and demanded physical reprisal against all liberals. This movement was supported by the President of Finland, Per Ewind Svinhuvud (1861 - 1944). In a conversation with the German ambassador von Blucher, the Finnish president said that “Russia is Finland’s only and constant enemy” and that “Hitler, from the Finnish point of view, is better than Gustav Stresemann (1878 - 1929; German statesman and politician)” . And Finnish Foreign Minister Hexel, in turn, assured the Germans that "the Finns will adhere to the anti-Russian course."
Thousands of builders of the Mannerheim Line inspired themselves with songs that “the army of Hitler and Mussolini will smash the USSR to pieces.”
Finland and, in particular, the Mannerheim Line in 1939 were visited by the chief of staff of the German Army Franz Halder (1884 - 1972), he also conducted exercises of the Finnish troops

[ballian]

What relationships" ? The fact that up to 18 years in Finland there was a struggle between pro-German and pro-Entente politicians is known, as well as it is known that Mannerheim was for an alliance with the Entente, temporarily victorious pro-Germans for TWO months put Friedrich Karl of Hesse on the throne, - so what? ? ;))) On December 12, 1918, the pro-German government of Sviichund and the "king" Friedrich left the scene. What did you want to say with your sheet?
What is the “third round” of the formation of Finland’s anti-Russian foreign policy? ”You here in“ proof ”brought - there was a movement adhering to the principle of“ Finland to the Urals ”- and what? - they were in the government ?? Or at least had some kind of influence in Finland Do you at least understand what democracy is and what freedom of speech is (Finland was really a democratic republic then) What other Finns had an "anti-Russian course" - details? Or do you take the remark of the Finnish prime minister for the "anti-Russian foreign policy of Finland" which is obviously on the conscience of the German ambassador) that Russia is an enemy of Finland? Horror -. It is urgently necessary to attack Finland on such an occasion.
And the fact that the builders of the DEFENSE line inspired themselves with songs is generally not anti-Russian.

Of course, I do not deny that Stalin looked far away and the Finnish border is at 30 km. from Leningrad this is a clear potential threat, but only - no one has yet revealed the discovery that Finland was going to attack the USSR then.

Just as it is a fact that the story with the "pushing back" of the border, as it turned out, was not only useless and meaningless, but also led to catastrophic consequences for the USSR.

[Vadivak]

Quote: ballian

What other "anti-Russian course" did the Finns have - details?

You can end here. Read about the Finnish invasion of Karelia in 1921-22.

[ballian]

Yes, the "invasion" was terrible - 550 Finnish volunteers arrived to the aid of the Karelians who rebelled against the Bolsheviks - I still do not understand how Soviet Russia had enough strength to repel this invasion :)

[ballian]

From the Soviet book _ "In the fall of 1921 in Karelia kulak revolts broke out under the slogan of the annexation of Karelia to Finland and the invasion of the White Finnish detachments began. The" Provisional Karelian Committee "was formed, which headed the anti-Soviet struggle. By the end of December 1921, the White Finnish detachments (5-6 thousand people. ) advanced to the line of Olanga, Kokosalma, Maslozero, Tunguda, Rugozero, Segozero, Porosozero, killing communists and Soviet employees "
______
That is, Finnish volunteers (550 people) made up only 10% of the number of rebels - 90% of the rebels were local Karelians.
.
And here's another from the Soviet book, which honestly speaks of the "popularity" of the Bolsheviks among the Karelians - "The difficult situation in Karelia was complicated by weak political work. According to the party census, in February 1922 the party organization of Karelia numbered only 812 people, and the percentage of communists was the Karelian was very small. "

[Vadivak]

You dear, do not evade, you ask about the anti-Russian course, and when they answer you, then you consider volunteers

[ballian]

AND ? I answered you - for those wishing to find an "anti-Russian course" the best vaccination is to go to the library and go through the Soviet newspapers of those years - as far as I know from what I read - the USSR paid almost no attention to Finland until the age of 39 and did not notice the "anti-Russian course" ...

[dmitri077]

"It is important to note that Stalin did not demand from the Finns a complete revision of the results of the Soviet-Finnish war of 1918-1920, caring only about the security of the USSR and offered the Finns a territory TWO TIMES larger than the one that was demanded in return." - what a humane human being it turns out to be! ... just asked .. and they, such bastards, refused

[Antagonist]

Quote: professor

And the fact that they fought on the side of Hitler

- Yes, rather - against Moscow.

[Nick]

So the Finns themselves made this mess.
Stalin asked them to move the border on the Korel Isthmus away from Leningrad. It was clear to everyone that a war was coming with the Nazis, and that enemy artillery could easily shell Leningrad from the Finnish border. But the Finns came up against it, although ours appealed to them more than once with this request and, moreover, they offered in return the territory of Karelia twice as large in area as requested from Finland. They even offered to redeem it (moreover, the Finnish Finance Ministry was in favor.) Well, when the 39 year came and Germany unleashed the war in Europe, Stalin had no choice but to solve the problem of the defense of Leningrad by military means.

[ballian]

Is America going to attack us? She's just a conditionally probable opponent.
In the same way, the Finns remember that back in 1938 the USSR did not have any claims against them. It all happened "suddenly".
Your Freudian clause "used to belong to Russia" says a lot.

"I will open America" ​​- if there is an army in the country, it is constantly rearming, otherwise there is no point in the army itself.

[ballian]

the assertion of the author of the text that "Finnish Hornets were originally intended to protect the airspace of Finland in the event of a new attack by Russia, and secondary roles were assigned to direct support of troops in battle" are not based on anything - "Hornets" are full-fledged strike aircraft.

[gans]

have you really decided to demand Karelia, otherwise why would they need cruise missiles, why would a goat accordion?

[lightforcer]

They want to join NATO.

[APASUS]

Quote: lightforcer

They want to join NATO.

I want to remind you that the Finns were sent a proposal to join NATO as many as three times, while during the USSR

[ballian]

They (or rather the communist puppet government of Kuusinen), and so Stalin promised to give half of Karelia and even the corresponding agreement between the USSR and the "Finnish government" was concluded, here is an excerpt from it:
Article I.
As a sign of friendship and deep confidence of the Soviet Union in the Finnish Democratic Republic, meeting the national aspirations of the Finnish people for the reunification of the Karelian people with the Finnish people in a single and independent Finnish state, the Soviet Union expresses its consent to transfer to the Finnish Democratic Republic the regions of Soviet Karelia with a predominantly Karelian population - everything in the amount of 70 square kilometers, with the inclusion of this territory in the state territory of the Finnish Democratic Republic "

=================
This is to the question of "insolent claims" of Finland - Stalin himself recognized the right of Finland on the territory of Karelia with the Karelian population and in fact that the Karelians are part of the Finnish people.
Here's an incident that later tried to hush :))

[3DV]

What contract is the excerpt from?

I assume that from the proposed in the negotiations on moving the border further from Leningrad

PS If so, then this is the same pretext as in Japan about the "northern territories" - since they offered to transfer it, then this is already ours

[ballian]

What do you google laziness? http://www.aroundspb.ru/finnish/docs/fdr_dog.php
V. Molotov - O. Kuusinen
3 декабря 1939 года
This is not an option, but a signed agreement with the Finnish communist government created in Moscow, which was supposed to be sent to Helsinki. Who in Moscow could have suggested then that Finland would be too tough, and the Kuusinen government would have to self-liquidate.

This is not a "pretext", but just a statement of the fact that the Soviet leadership quite realistically "in terms of" recognized Finland's rights to the lands of Karelia, although of course Stalin would not have squandered Soviet lands so massively - there is no doubt that after the alleged victory over the "White Finns" "Finland would be joined to the USSR according to the Baltic scenario, and how the borders within the USSR are drawn is not at all important.

[ballian]

In addition, 3DV (if you are not strong in geography) - the USSR offered "bourgeois" Finland in exchange for a concession of 3 thousand square meters. km. - less than 6 (six) thousand sq. km.
And he signed an agreement with the Finnish communist government that was bunged in Moscow in which he gave Finland 70 (seventy) thousand square kilometers - this is half of Karelia (within the borders of the 39 of the year) and the text of the agreement expressly acknowledges that the transfer of land is not a simple exchange, but the fulfillment of reasonable aspirations Finnish people about reunion.

[Dart weyder]

but nevertheless, the Kuril Islands also somehow belong (as they did) to Russia, the USSR and Russia again, and are recognized according to the post-war agreements, nevertheless, some almost immediately forgot about it, and began to incite the samurai ... In any case, the cries of radical parties and organizations (based on past experience) about "great Finland" (and why do all small countries love to dignify themselves like that !?) can find support from Western democracies - and the weaker Russia is, the louder the demands will be. Although if we take into account the territorial claims of all comers - in the Western European part - it would have been possible to satisfy them (hypothetically and jokingly) - that would be a laugh, I can't imagine how Poles, Balts and Romanians (like I named everyone! ??????? ?) will divide the territory among themselves - most likely they will kill each other - after all, they claim to almost one and the same territory !!!!!! a-che, give up the land - so they will kill each other on the way to them !!!!!! and that's all - then there will be no complaints against us!)

[Antagonist]

They also want the Sami - Vyborg, Lake Ladoga, Karelia, etc. .. For one thing - and the North Stream with the Germans to operate as part of reparations for 70 years of Finnish operation.

[Antagonist]

Quote: ballian

Your Freudian clause "used to belong to Russia" says a lot.

It is interesting to the finals, Georgians, Japanese, etc. - the Germans do not think to buy landing ships?
- Well, so to speak, for a new alliance with Finland along Konensberg and Vyborg ...

[LESHA pancake]

The Finns fought on the side of Hitler until they were given a tambourine, too, the most may happen now. In any case, Finland does not experience good feelings to Russia.

[Vadim]

Finland is probably the only country that didn’t spit in our backs after the collapse of the Union. It’s difficult to suspect them of aggressiveness.

[Antagonist]

Here rather - everything has its time.

[Jaguar]

Those who fought on Hitler's side later turned out to be better than those who fought against Hitler. Learn the post-war history and stop writing in caps

[Denis]

hz what is a caps, it looks like you with such judgments
in Estonia does not pull?

[Jaguar]

Caps Lock. And what is wrong with my judgment? In your opinion, the USA and the USSR in peace and friendship after the war with Germany? Or have you not studied post-war history at school yet?

[LESHA pancake]

this is what needs to be understood so that those who killed our fathers and grandfathers were white and fluffy or the Gestapo was a peacekeeping organization you lie but don’t lie.

[Jaguar]

it must be understood that those who killed our fathers and grandfathers after the war became allies (Germans and Romanians), allies (Americans and British) became enemies

[Antagonist]

- What they deserve. And not for Hitler - but against Soviet Russian occupants.

[LESHA pancake]

lie more bent into.

[Antagonist]

Here, the obvious things, as well as the land of Europe - Belarus, Ukraine and the Baltic countries joined under the Molotov-Rebentrop Pact.
Just think about how you had to prove yourself in 2 years from 39 to 41, so that people in 41 would fight against Moscow.

[LESHA pancake]

ABOUT WHICH PEOPLE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT Fascists THAT. THEY WERE GOOD WAR WITH PEACE POPULATION.

[Professor]

My grandfather went all over Finnish, so that I have no complaints about them.
On which side do not look at Georgia, and the neighboring country chopped off part of the territory from them. Here are the Finns and tensed as it was already passing.

[LESHA pancake]

HONOR AND PRAISING YOUR GRANDFATHER. THANKS TO GOD THAT THE Finns didn’t kill him. And Georgia didn’t chop off the territory of Georgia. It itself didn’t need to kill Ossetians.

[lightforcer]

She (Georgia) prosrali these territories back in 1992-1993.

[Antagonist]

Hailstones ironed the Russian occupation assault, to know.

[LESHA pancake]

AHA AGAIN WAS RUNNING BECAUSE ALREADY FIVE FIVE SPARK. DO NOT MIX.

[Antagonist]

Firstly - from verbiage in CAPITAL letters, the post-writer does not become - neither smarter, nor post more unpopulated. End this weird form.
Second - don't you really think that releasing the RA over such a "military monster" as Georgia in violation of domestic Russian and international legislation is glorious?
Due to the scam and the offensive in Georgia, Russia in the World has become on a par with banana-oil Libya, Venezuela, S. Korea, Egypt, Iran.
- How do you like this status?

[gans]

and who decided that Ossetia and Abkhazia is Georgian territory? Professor of sour cabbage soup

[Professor]

All except Russia, Nicaragua and I do not remember some kind of marginal.

I do not remove fault with Georgia.

gans, hello to the trolls

[gans]

Hi to the trolls, whether you are greeting yourself. If Stalin drew the border, this does not mean at all that the land has become Georgian, like the Crimea and Sevastopol Hohlyatsky

[lightforcer]

some kind of marginal.

Is this about Hugo Chavez?

[Antagonist]

Quote: professor

All except Russia, Nicaragua and I do not remember some kind of marginal.

“Five out of five.”

[His]

Yes you are friends however

[Dart weyder]

judging by the minus gans - there are radical Georgians, and even Mishiko himself minus !!!!

[Denis]

more conversations
buy a dozen rockets, great power!
maybe they are not very smart guys, but not to the same extent that they are seriously preparing for war with Russia, degrees?

[cohort]

A simple expansion of the range of weapons, so that there would be a reserve, so to speak, just in case. And then there is the F-18, but what to shoot is not so diverse and not so accurate. And then immediately the polar cries about the Finnish expansion into poor Russia and their type that Georgia is an example to them (maybe their generals under this guise and beat out something newer for themselves). Yes, only one of our turnover from January to July 11 billion killed US raccoons. And we are for a small but proud Finland, a very important market, and we hardly need this Finland, Poland, and Georgia, we would have to preserve our Far East and build the Eurasian Union.

[Dart weyder]

in terms of fighting off aggression - not a single country is a neighbor with such "dimensions" - naturally will not withstand a grateful (sudden) strike due to the small length of the territory - the destruction of the runway even by operational-tactical complexes and aviation - simply will not allow the use of aircraft for a retaliatory strike, that is, frightening a neighbor with 67 planes, although American ones, is also not serious, their use is possible only with a preemptive strike, which is also unlikely - since the Finns cannot withstand a retaliatory strike, this is not 70 years ago, so it is possible only one option for their use is if all the lads are piled on, - if they buy such a weapon, it means that someone has similar thoughts on this account, and the finals will no longer be able to quarrel ,,,,,

[kesa1111]

It seems that the Finns have paranoia .... Or there is a buyer.

[Denis]

this is what fly agaric Chukhonse overeating need to start a war?
most likely they got some kind of stool

[Jaguar]

Finland’s area is 338 km, Iraq’s 424 km. And the Americans didn’t destroy the GDP especially, the planes took off and even shot down the enemy. And what’s the area in general? Israelis do not really suffer from 437 km

[Professor]

interesting article on the topic
http://rnd.cnews.ru/army/news/line/index_science.shtml?2011/09/30/457801

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=AMowaZ3I90o

[His]

Professor these pend news from CNN. I would not take them seriously. The joke itself - who is flying next to the rocket, is it not a drone by accident?

[Professor]

News is not Pindos or Native American, news is true or false. IHMO everything is true here.
It’s not a drone flying nearby.

[Alexandr_K]

Quote: gans

if the Finns begin to arm themselves, then questions arise, but in the fig they need it

The question is well, oooh, not smart.

Quote: gans

but Stalin made little there, very few

And the finest zvizdyuley hung Stalin! Finns well done! It was not hell to climb into a sovereign state. Here I am completely on the side of the Finns.

Quote: LYOKHA damn

So fought the same and killed our grandfathers and fathers

Yes to the patam that OUR GRANDFATES AND FATHERS, on the orders of Stalin, went to kill the Finns, and those whom they did not kill were driven into the Stalinist socialist camps.

Quote: LYOKHA damn

FINNS OUR POTENTIAL ENEMIES.

Finns have never been enemies of Russia. The Finns never attacked Russia.

Well, in general, I look, in Russia there is a wild schizophrenia.


I remember the extermination tender in Finland 20 years ago. It was attended by MiG-29 and F / A-18 Hornet. As you know, the victory was won by "Hornet". In Russia, hysteria immediately began - it is a threat to the national and territorial integrity of Russia !!! Oh how! Those. if the Finns bought our plane, then this is normal, and since they, who are not so good, did not buy ours, then this is a threat to Russia. So what !?

[dred]

How many gray epaulettes rose.