"LifeNews": in the Kostroma region, a conscript soldier shot his colleagues in the guardhouse

In the media, there are details of the tragic incident in the military camp of the Kostroma region. The Department of Defense reports (from the LifeNews report) that the corporal of the RF Armed Forces, using automatic weapon, opened fire on his fellow soldiers who were at that moment with him in the guardroom. Several shots were fired, as a result of which, according to preliminary data, three people were killed (among them one officer), three more were injured of varying degrees of severity. The 19, an old corporal who opened fire, committed suicide, at least as reported in the news agency reports.

TV channel LifeNews publishes the data of the dead and wounded in the Kostroma region:

The dead:
Corporal Bakhtin P., 1996.
Lieutenant Voronchikhin A., 1990.
Corporal Myakushko A., 1991.
Corporal Kosachev A. 1995.

Wounded
Junior Sergeant Ivanov Denis, 1991.
Starshina Lamov Andrey, 1985.
Sergeant Petrutin Stanislav.

A special commission, which arrived from Moscow, works at the scene of the incident. According to preliminary information, the reason for the execution of colleagues 19-year-old military personnel became “personal motives”.

The soldier who opened fire from a machine gun in the Kostroma region (in the village of Pesochnoye) served as a conscript.

Information about the incident is being specified.

Comments

[Darkmor]

"Personal motives"
Suicide -> driving to suicide -> hazing -> all the blame is on the command of the unit

[Alex_Rarog]

I agree, the stars are definitely worth understanding! And someone to plant.

[222222]

And where were the ... psychologists ..? They spawn like mushrooms after the rain .. and it’s easiest to shoot .. Can I figure it out first?

[gladcu2]

222222

What are the psychologists? Mom and dad still drag in.

Officers and soldiers should be taught the statutes of the guard duty. There seems to be a clause on the punishment of military personnel. In time it was necessary to remove the soldier from the outfit.

[222222]

Son. Teach your dad about the guards ..

[gladcu2]

Uncle, in my 20s, before the demobilization 2 months a company instead of an ensign-foreman. I was a sergeant.

And the lieutenant was the first year-old temporarily performing comrades. All the rest of the platoon commander who is on retraining, and who went on vacation.

So I didn’t have any fights or violations of the daily routine. And I slept like a conscript with all the barracks. And Yulya after lights out could cover to the fullest. But I didn’t even go to watch TV after a hang up. But because everything that I did never departed from the charter.

And if anyone remembers or knows. That is the daily routine for a soldier, this is sacred.

So I know the army very well.

[222222]

Uncle I, in my 20s, before the demobilization 2 months company ..
Do not be offended .. the son ...

[tolancop]

I DO NOT BELIEVE!!!
Comrotes are at least a captain. And there are not so few officers with warrant officers in it, at least there will be a dozen. Even if the command staff is incomplete, then leaving the company without a command staff, leaving the company to the sergeant - not a single commander of the high-ranking unit in their right mind will do this. And the fact that it is asserted that under the "command" of the company there was complete order, because "I never departed from the charter" you can tell the grateful listeners who are ready to take spreading noodles on their ears. Those who really SERVED, your stories will not deceive.
I admit that a sergeant could command a company only if the company was WELL VERY INCOMPLETE - one name, and personnel with a gulkin nose. Or the company command from divorce to lunch or from lunch to dinner, i.e. when people with asterisks are preoccupied with their own affairs. I believe in such a command unconditionally - being a sergeant himself, he commanded a company, more than 40 people in full force. And he acted on personal authority, without reference to the charter, for ... they would laugh ...

[gladcu2]

And believe me.

Komroty was an old starter then the captain half-force. The commander’s platoon, we had one captain (the luyntent of the comrade, this is not a paradox) and a first-year lieutenant and two ensigns. Petty Officer Senior Warrant Officer.

And I was a sergeant after a year of university. There was such a set in '88. They took them from universities.

And my experience was better than that of young lieutenants. Since after 3 months of training, I visited 20 months in all sergeant posts. And what is to paint outfits. Bred to classes and guards. I also knew better how to ask the company duty officer than any company commander. Because it went from a to z.

In the absence of platoon locks, classes were conducted. And drill and sport holidays. Lead the company away from the dining room.

You’ll get a hell out of me. And that was 18 to 20 years old for everyone. Lieutenant 25 was.

Like a clockwork.

[222222]

George Mary always begins with the phrase: "When I served under the banner of the Duke of Cumberland ..."

[Manul]

Quote: 222222

George Mary always begins with the phrase: "When I served under the banner of the Duke of Cumberland ..."

What are you guys talking about? Is he telling the truth to you, or is it more visible to you from above, or is this Sergeant right (there is no name in PM, but the nickname is incomprehensible) in that the charter is the most important component to ensure order and insurance against any state of emergency? As for me - he says business, and you, for your part, want to prove that you have longer.

[sgazeev]

Cope without psychologists.

[gladcu2]

The company was 130. 100 personnel and two partly assigned platoons.

Does any of you know? What does it mean to conduct combat training in a company?

This is not everyone in life had to do. Especially at the age of 18-20 years.

[Maksus]

Well, I happened, and so what? Any platoon commander knows this ...

[derik1970]

all this could be ... who served in the army does not laugh at the circus ....

[arane]

Quote: derik1970

all this could be ... who served in the army does not laugh at the circus ....

It could! Everything can be in our army! I served as a doctor for half a year .....

[tolancop]

"I have a hell of a mess" - another NOODLES !!!! WHAT can a sergeant do to a "spoiled one"? Moreover, within the framework of the disciplinary regulations ... NOTHING REAL !!! Announce the outfit? Not funny..

I have already forgotten the charter of the guard service, but as far as I remember, the separation of the guards is under the jurisdiction of the officer on duty, not the company commander, and even more so a certain person whom no one officially authorized to command the company. The maximum is "- Ivanov, from your company 10 people on guard .. - Understood, there will be 10 people ...". And that's it! And you don't need to take merit as a company to the dining room. I don’t know how in other units, but for the company to be brought to the dining room by the commanders - this is an exceptional case from which the officer on duty would get his eyes on the forehead ... The chief of the company led ... 2 times to the 3rd ... the rest of the time a sergeant, usually a platoon commander 1. And this was perceived as NORM. ....
Continue the art whistle ...
By the way, I forgot to ask ... What army did you serve in? It doesn’t look like a CA ...

[nimboris]

Lyuley weighed or taunt the bosses.

[kavad]

I DO NOT BELIEVE!!!

Anything can happen. In our department (OVO) - a company on vacation, his deputy on a business trip, a cock on vacation. For a month now the helper of the platoon and guard from the guarded facility - the senior warrant officer and foreman!

[derik1970]

at one time, the army did not have enough officers, so sergeants dragged the service ... therefore, I began to call up "jackets" into the army myself ... these are 1994-1996 years of my service - military unit 22267, art / training, her already multiplied by zero and not only her ... a lot of us were two-year-olds and on guard and on duty and on duty, etc. and so on ... I will not be surprised at anything from what gladcu2 told, apparently not everywhere there was a set of personnel ... you yourself know who served in the army that does not laugh in the circus ...

[HUMAN OWNER 1]

absolutely right in 1994, after the hospital, while it was "overgrown" two weeks later, two weeks later, he left on duty in the division, then we will help in the regiment as a sergeant with 1,5 years of service, there was not a set of personnel everywhere ...

[_Brown_]

A company of a company is different, of course, but on average: a company is a starley or a captain, still a political officer, 3 platoons (from ml. L-t to st. L-t) and one, two warrant officers or foremen. In MCP l / s from 90 to 120 people. But if the company is separate or some kind is not motorized rifle, then the number of l / s may be different.

[Nehist]

I wonder where are you in the company of 10 officers and warrant officers? Maximum 7 and usually 5 souls

[gladcu2]

In fact, all this is tragic. For many families.
.

[Nick]

Quote: gladcu2

222222

What are the psychologists? Mom and dad still drag in.

Officers and soldiers should be taught the statutes of the guard duty. There seems to be a clause on the punishment of military personnel. In time it was necessary to remove the soldier from the outfit.

So, how to determine on time or not on time? there are no psychologists in the outfit.
Let it be known to you that as far back as the 70 of the last century, in the security and defense units of the Strategic Missile Forces, where soldiers, taking up combat duty, are constantly with military weapons, soldiers were recruited only after the positive conclusion of a military psychologist. He himself went through these procedures, psychological tests, interviews. And mom and dad have nothing to do with it.

[gladcu2]

Nick

There is always a charter. And it strictly describes the relationship of the military. If you strictly follow the charter, no shootings should have happened.

For any complaints and crisis situations, the soldier is removed from the dress.

It could be that the person was missing. But damn it.

Okay, I don’t want to talk about this anymore.

And psychologists in the army only create a niche where everyone is trying to evade responsibility.

If honey commission in the army allowed. That is your best psychologist foreman of the company and 5 outfits out of turn. It will be small, add.

[I am a Russian]

Quote: gladcu2

There is always a charter. And it strictly describes the relationship of the military.

In any situation, a charter?

[gladcu2]

I am a Russian.

Charter in any situation, without exception.

[derik1970]

we had a crossbow in the unit, on guard ... of horror, of course ... I didn’t go as a bunker ... it was clear that the problem was in hazing ... but that it’s clear that an old man is not always clear to the colonel ... but somewhere after a year or two, some bandits disarmed the changing of the guard when changing posts, in a dark area, when moving from one post to another, they took away weapons and it seems they killed no one ... not everywhere the lighting is good ... with this lighting of the posts and adjoining territory was painted in due time as a nachkar ... disgusting damn it when on a post as in the priest of a black man and save on this ...

[tolancop]

You really, dear, decide ... Either strict adherence to the charters, or a company under the full command of a sergeant ... Since one does not combine with the other ...
And "if you strictly follow the charter, then no shootings should happen" ... There shouldn't be a lot of things, but it happens ...
2 days in a row to defend the company duty officer what charter is provided for? None. And it was .. Not enough? I’ll add ... I was replaced, rested a day and again interceded, as it turned out for three days in a row (the charter is resting), the daily ones, however, have I been changed ... Not enough? He rested another day and stepped in for FOUR DAYS OF A CONTRACT (charter in a knockout !!). And there is no one to blame for violating the charter, since it so happened that the rest of the sergeant was busy with much more important matters ...

About "shooting should not be" a separate conversation. And I myself was trained in the handling of weapons, trained, screwed up, call it what you want, that checking the weapon begins with disconnecting the magazine, then twitching the shutter, then the control release. In part, the picture with young growth is similar. However, THERE WAS NOT a case that someone from the next call did not queue up in a bullet catcher !! There was no ... Although they taught without fools ...

[gladcu2]

tolancop

The key word is "by the charter." Everything must be done according to the charter. The charter contains the order for the duty officer and the orderly.

[Nick]

Quote: gladcu2

There is always a charter. And it strictly describes the relationship of the military. If you strictly follow the charter, no shootings should have happened.

It's funny to read right. What class are you in? I’ll tell you a secret - we also have a Criminal Code, but for some reason they violate it, despite the possible time.

Quote: gladcu2

For any complaints and crisis situations, the soldier is removed from the dress.

And if there were no complaints? If the soldier is secretive, well, such a character. Whereas?

Quote: gladcu2

And psychologists in the army only create a niche where everyone is trying to evade responsibility.

A psychologist in the army so that people with an unstable psyche are prevented from using deadly weapons, there are non-combat units for them, let them serve there and bring their service to the homeland, and not a bunch of corpses.

[gladcu2]

Each nut has a threaded bolt. Answer yours if you yourself.

If a soldier is secretive, then his place is in the "intelligence"

[222222]

UVS .. "84. The commander (chief), in order to comply with the established procedure for military service by subordinate military personnel, is obliged:
comprehensively study the business and moral-psychological qualities of subordinates through personal communication with them, daily engage in their education;

personally conduct conversations with their subordinates; ""
..UGKS "150. Commanders of military units (subdivisions), chiefs of territorial bodies and divisions of the military police, from whom the guards are assigned, are responsible for the selection of the personnel of the guards and their preparation for service, timely arrival of guards for classes and divorce.
It is forbidden to appoint servicemen on guard duty: those who have not been sworn in to the Military Oath (who have not brought an obligation); who have not mastered the appropriate training program for the arrived replenishment; committed acts containing signs of crimes under investigation, prone to the use of alcoholic beverages, narcotic drugs, psychotropic substances and their analogues, toxic substances; having the third and fourth groups of neuropsychic stability; sick and other military personnel who at this time, due to their moral and psychological state, cannot carry out guard duty; previously prosecuted; experiencing loss or other difficult events in the family, with deviations in behavior (depression, anxiety, fear, etc.); characterized by increased conflict, expressing unhealthy moods. "

[derik1970]

I must, I must ... they wrote beautifully, do you see the reality, no? our whole life is formalities ... and even more so in the army ... all the more so if in a day every belt is loaded with straps and loads, and you won’t be safe from freaks ... served in 1994-96, even then there were abnormal I’m not sorry for the army, with some I had to learn the multiplication table and other elementary things ... but you should go on guard with them later as well ... in the army, the social side of civilian life was reflected in the mirror ... the commander is a subtle psychologist and diplomat and much more ... but you can’t imagine everything ... for example, those soldiers who constantly thumped, often from local ones, often sat on my lips, then I met them in civilian cities in my city, arrogant faces, became bosses. .. and some in the army were hiding from prison and also fell on the lip ... they tried not to put them on guard ... but nevertheless, some openly declared that they were ready to open the armory, then they were sent far away to serve ... there was nothing choose it was, and now the same ...

[officer29]

Quote: gladcu2

There seems to be a punishment clause

Read the UGKS! And carefully! Then it will not seem to you!

[arane]

Quote: officer29

Quote: gladcu2

There seems to be a punishment clause

Read the UGKS! And carefully! Then it will not seem to you!

Well, a man forgot ... Confused the UGKS and disciplinary, maybe very long ago it was .....
Although how can he, dear, forget that

[creak]

Quote: arane

the man forgot ... Confused the UGKS and disciplinary, maybe very long ago it was .....

"O Warrior who lives by the service, read the Charter for the coming sleep, and in the morning, having risen from sleep, read the Charter in a new way."
The charter is a thing, of course, necessary, but you cannot foresee the whole variety of life situations in it - therefore, in some cases, you should sometimes be guided by common sense and worldly experience, if, of course, they exist.
It is no coincidence that Peter the Great said: "Do not adhere to the Rite like a blind wall ..."

[Hleb]

in the unit, each fighter is in full view. and without psychologists in the team, problematic issues immediately surface

[222222]

Gleb (5) Today, 19:09 ↑
in the unit, each fighter at a glance. and without psychologists .. "
..so I'm about the same ..

[Victorio]

Quote: Gleb

in the unit, each fighter is in full view. and without psychologists in the team, problematic issues immediately surface

====
all right, that means there were prerequisites, and this was known, well, for sure, to several. and the likelihood that suddenly and in itself flew off coils is very small.

[tolancop]

I wouldn’t be so categorical about "come out right away". Sometimes problems begin to creep out of a character, from whom no one expected them, since no manifestations were observed for a long time ... We had one of this kind .. I served for 4 months, and then .. saw something .. incoherent speech, half-insane look, movement "torn" ... With drugs then massively did not indulge, incl. you can't blame it on that. And they didn’t understand, frankly, whether the fighter really made a fool or just decided to "mow" a little (then he was a great artist). But they brought the information to the commander and took note of it.

[manuchao]

They didn’t produce psychologists, but they took women to these posts. And what is good in education is not entirely appropriate in the sun.

[smershxnumx]

I have a classmate (senior sergeant, deputy commander of the company) so the contract is pulling (43 times under the "old ass") ... The conscript hanged himself (the "bride" did not wait for him) ... Letekha-platoon (did not serve for a week, six days from the order ) - on "freedom" with "fired for compromising circumstances" .. A reprimand to a classmate (company commander - a vacant position), to a battalion commander - an incomplete official ... brigade commander - I don't know what they slapped ...
Question: for what "the stars brought down" ???

[veksha50]

Quote: smerx24

Question: for what "the stars brought down" ???

But Leitech generally did not have the right under the law to even punish with reprimand, not to mention dismissal ...

PS Pay attention to the ranks of those whom the kid shot ... Two foremen and ml. sergeant, two corporal and starley nachkar ...

Question on the backfill: what could the two foremen and the younger sergeant in the guard at the same time ??? Well, they didn’t go breeders ...

So there was a showdown with people most likely not even part of the guard, and the starley went on the occasion of the grandfathers-elders ... And sober grandfathers would not swing the rights to a fighter with weapons in their hands ...

Something like this ... But this is purely my thoughts aloud ...

[proletarian]

As said above: Where there is a mess, there is trouble.

[Manul]

Quote: veksha50

Something like this ... But this is purely my thoughts aloud ...

And not only yours. Everyone understands that the point is not in the weak moral psyche who committed this, but in the unhealthy environment of this particular part. Both above and below there are many good arguments in favor of this. I agree with them.

[proletarian]

Why? Yes, because there was no normal human contact with the personnel (especially with the new recruits), and the Charter has nothing to do with it.
If everything is left to chance in the BARDAK unit, WAIT FOR TROUBLE !!!

[arane]

Quote: smerx24

I have a classmate (senior sergeant, deputy commander of the company) so the contract is pulling (43 times under the "old ass") ... The conscript hanged himself (the "bride" did not wait for him) ... Letekha-platoon (did not serve for a week, six days from the order ) - on "freedom" with "fired for compromising circumstances" .. A reprimand to a classmate (company commander - a vacant position), to a battalion commander - an incomplete official ... brigade commander - I don't know what they slapped ...
Question: for what "the stars brought down" ???

And this, my friend, is a consequence of the liberalization of the army! If you are an officer, how can you punish a negligent conscript soldier? Without breaking the law? The answer is simple- NO! Vaascha! And stick the wise men a disciplinary charter in a dup! Now on the lip by a court order,! Who needs to do this garbage? And, I forgot, a reprimand, even a strict one, you can slap him! Let him be ashamed! NSS to declare, or to expel from the army?

This is the first part of the problem! The second important point is that the commanders and commanders are placed in such conditions that they have to hide the presence of an unregulated woman, because if they report about it, they will get through their brains until they are fired! Therefore, everything is hidden until the emergency results!
The third. It’s almost impossible to bring to justice the conscript soldier, who has been ripped off from a nearby demobilization or the presence of a crowd of hot countrymen at a stage when nothing has happened yet, because the military prosecutor’s office does not want to do this! And here everything is simple. Refusal to carry out the order is a war crime, there is such an article! There is an article, but no precedents! Yes dofiga everything.

In general, sergeants and officers in combat units are the most disenfranchised people in this regard! Their rights were taken away, and responsibilities were imposed in the cube

Everything that I wrote does not in any way cancel the guilt of the commanders, and the presence of idiots of varying degrees in command posts ..... Unfortunately

[Moore]

Quote: arane

And this, my friend, is a consequence of the liberalization of the army! If you are an officer, how can you punish a negligent conscript soldier? Without breaking the law? The answer is simple- NO! Vaascha! And stick the wise men a disciplinary charter in a dup! Now on the lip by a court order,! Who needs to do this garbage? And, I forgot, a reprimand, even a strict one, you can slap him! Let him be ashamed! NSS to declare, or to expel from the army?

Imagine, my child, while in a comradely position (he does not have a spare part) and being very stubborn, he decided to bring one such conscript-undergrowth (evading duties, quietly spitting those who are weaker) to his lip. With all the necessary minutes of conversations, reports and other tops. The minor expectedly complained ... to his mother. Mom arrived the next day in the division’s educational department and threw a tantrum about the raids on the child. The child was also expectedly transferred to another part. With matching cots for the company and far-reaching conclusions.
This is to say that it’s already clogged tightly in the subcortex of the authorities: the most important thing is calmness of one’s own ass, and by what method and method this is achieved - it gave the tenth ...

[Nehist]

A huge plus for your comments! Everything to the point.

[Vadim2013]

It must be remembered that the 19 corporal (an excellent soldier) killed three.

[222222]

Vadim2013 SU Today, 20:56 ↑
It must be remembered that a 19-year-old corporal (an excellent soldier) killed three of them. "
..Macnomara was the Minister of Defense. And leaped out the window .. "Russian tanks are coming."
The roof is tearing regardless of rank. Positions. Toes and lamps

[tolancop]

McNamara was the Minister of Defense, but seems to be still alive. And Forrestal sighed out the window ...

[North]

I agree. but instead of hazing -80% crime. there, after all, now they also rule money.

[FIREMAN]

Without evidence, conversation is pointless. Maybe he returned from vacation or dismissal, there is a girlfriend in bed with another. I do not know two such cases by hearsay. I waited for the first guard and forth. If the actual circumstances are unknown, you can build versions as you like. Although the version with hazing is plausible in this case, judging by the age of the participants.

[Altona]

Quote: FIREMAN

Although the version with hazing is plausible in this case, judging by the age of the participants.

--------------------------
It may still be based on personal hostility, but then there are also questions for the command, why bring these characters together in one outfit?

[Darkmor]

Quote: FIREMAN

Maybe he returned from vacation or dismissal, there is a girlfriend in bed with another.

Then he would have killed his girlfriend and her stinker.
Or he would have escaped from the guard with weapons to kill them (if he serves not far from home).
He could have just shot himself if he had been upset by some external factor, such as the betrayal of his girlfriend.
But, if he shot the entire guard, it means that, in his understanding, there was a reason.

Quote: Altona

Why bring these characters together in one outfit?

Usually such people are not in conflict, and this is the whole problem. They suffer humiliation and do not show open aggression, but at one moment they break down and such a denouement ensues. If they could take out their anger gradually, the matter would not come to the point of murder.
But our army, this is such an environment where, as it were better to say ... there are no half measures. There is a clear division into those who can be crushed for themselves (physically or mentally), and those with whom it is better not to mess with. And you will very quickly be identified in one of these categories, regardless of your desire.
Therefore, I won’t be surprised if this soldier had excellent recommendations and did not provoke conflicts either in the barracks or on guard.

[veksha50]

Quote: Darkmor

But our army, this is such an environment where, as it were better to say ... there are no half measures. There is a clear division into those who can be crushed for themselves (physically or mentally), and those with whom it is better not to mess with.

I completely agree with your comment, however, I would like to add to the context that I pulled out: this is not only in our army ... This is in most of not only armies, but specifically in closed purely male collectives ...

[urii]

what’s the logic here. if the girl didn’t wait. what is the point of killing colleagues. why? if the person didn’t do anything to you. you won’t shoot at him.

[gladcu2]

Firman.

Perhaps this was what you are talking about in bed. But only in the days of the USSR. There, such questions were treated differently than now.

In modern times, the level of cynicism rolls over. Especially in relations with the weaker sex.

But with all this, the cost of living has become very low. Many young people can appreciate their life with a second surge of emotions.

Is it easy for you to shoot yourself? Yes easily. Automatic to the chin and corpse. Just like that. Just joked, and now everyone is not joking.

And psychologists are not gentle here. Here you need a strict requirement to fulfill orders. And a clear schedule without a minute of personal time. Everything is extremely tough and responsible.

[FIREMAN]

Perhaps this was what you are talking about in bed

I agree with you, but there are many reasons. Speaking of friends, I’m not inclined to tell someone the tales of the Vienna Woods - 2003 and 2009 the same post. Two corpses. The reason is described above. I won’t give the military unit number - please take my word for it.

gladcu2 (1) Today
strict requirement to follow orders. And a clear schedule without a minute of personal time. Everything is extremely tough and responsible.

I agree. Until a certain point, this was until the officers changed, which was absolutely violet at what was happening with the police. A bunch of factors to provide that are often impossible.
Regards FIREMAN

[gladcu2]

FIREMAN

Verify the truth.

Where the officer began to flirt with old-timers or ensigns. There began a mess.

[Motherland Russia]

Not only on the command of the unit.
Many served - they know that there are enough moral freaks.

[Temples]

We really didn’t have hazing.
A similar incident has occurred.
One was shot in the guard of the sergeant.

So it’s better to wait for the results of the investigation.
And do not rush to remove epaulettes from officers.

[ty60]

Now they are calling for drug addicts and people sitting there. Try to find out what kind of cockroaches are in their heads ..

[gladcu2]

ty60

What nonsense are you talking about cockroaches?
In a company, a company commander knows every character of a soldier and also knows what to expect from him. This is if a good company.

But these snot with psychologists, these are excesses, and only harm.

[remy]

earlier even in the pioneer camps dope kicked out.
and now some kind of scribe ...

[vkl-47]

Yes, it happens everywhere when people go from coils. There is no wonder here. As long as the investigation is still nothing is clear. It’s early to draw conclusions. What happened there and how.

[gladcu2]

Remy

I agree.

And if the soldiers have time to engage in physical assault, then sports holidays are too short.

[aleksfill]

I agree that perhaps the soldier was brought, as they say, to the handle and nothing
did not give himself away until Kalash appeared in his hands, but then it was not able
affect. And what can be hazing at the service of just one year? For three years
service in the 60s, I just - only once had a chance in the general construction to hear
an order to punish a conscript soldier for assault. If today
with such a one year service life, such cases occur, then this
there may be an omission of the medical board at the call, maybe the guy is not quite mentally
healthy and what is the commander’s fault then?

[commander 64]

The shootings in the guards were, as we see, there are, and unfortunately they will be. Who commanded will understand.
And shout before debriefing: "All the fault is on the command of the unit!" - this is familiar. In army problems, as you will listen, all specialists.
Is this a housewives forum?

[gladcu2]

commandant

You are right about the shooting at the guard. And always where there is an army there will be extra-articulate relationships.

But as a former conscript, I know one thing. The order in the unit depended only on the commander of the unit.

The commander of the unit is not very. That's all in this part, including the last baker and the horse that carries the waste into the pigsty. All is not very.

This is true. Here before the court in
Almighty, and before you will confirm.

[Manul]

Quote: komendant 64

The shootings in the guards were, as we see, there are, and unfortunately they will be. Who commanded will understand.
And shout before debriefing: "All the fault is on the command of the unit!" - this is familiar. In army problems, as you will listen, all specialists.
Is this a housewives forum?

As I understand it, hitting only on gladcu2? Only he defends the order and charter as the norm, which should provide service without incident. What does he say so? Just that the charter is impossible in principle to support those who govern? Do you always need to close your eyes for something? Always need to negotiate with someone? The charter is violated from the smallest. Concessions are always given to someone. And after that it turns out that someone is higher, someone is equal. I don’t need to rub here that the dude was offended by life and pulled the trigger, because he has a bad character. It’s possible. But then on the other side there could be those bloodsuckers - this is quite possible to admit. And unfortunately you are unlikely to know the whole truth. If there are sadists and scum in the command, no one will ever let it come up. They say that the soldiers are to blame.

[31R-US]

I don’t know how it is today (I didn’t call mommy from a mobile phone as I rode), but earlier there was more order with hazing

[31R-US]

who minusanul, I understand the conscript

[veteran66]

Quote: 31R-US

who minusanul, I understand the conscript

I was a conscript, but those who served in the army, and did not "officer" immediately after school, know about hazing. And in general, do not chase after these arithmetic signs, here, as in the army, whoever licked deeper (threw the slogan louder and earlier) received more advantages, with very rare exceptions. I'm telling you as twice demoted)))))

[Alexs1833]

fully support.

[gladcu2]

31R-US

You're not right. Hazing was. But bullying in a good company never happened. There were fights, but without bruises.

But if after lights out, someone could not sleep. That is the whole company including grandfathers in the rain for a sports festival. Emphasis lying in the most athletic puddle and it is for fans to conduct bazaars. Grandfathers ran along with the young.

[Nick]

Quote: Darkmor

"Personal motives"
Suicide -> driving to suicide -> hazing -> all the blame is on the command of the unit

You are right, but one should also ask from the medical board why psychopaths get into combat units ?, why do they trust military weapons? Where are the military psychologists? Such conscripts should be sent to support services, and not to combat units.

[TOR2]

Quote: Nick

You are right, but one should also ask from the medical board why psychopaths get into combat units?

And not only from the medical board, only people with an impeccable reputation should be called on to the Armed Forces.

[kinolog2322]

That there are draftees. Contractors are insane, they are found in the fourth ten. There was such a platoon on survival. As the professional selection went through, I can’t imagine.

[_Brown_]

Honestly, I don’t understand the current young growth. And they serve a year, and they have been freed from many everyday tasks, and their psychologists have a quiet hour (if they don’t lie), and cell phones to communicate with relatives and loved ones ... Why aren’t they served?
I myself served in the 90's in the south of our Motherland ... Anything happened, but what would go for the murder followed by suicide? Fools are dumb ...

[andrei332809]

no words ... some mats.
wait what WRC says. and in general, where do these silently-silently look

[Penetrator]

Quote: andrei332809

no words ... some mats.
wait what WRC says. and in general, where do these silently-silently look

And where do the specials? Can you explain?

[andrei332809]

Quote: Penetrator

And where do the specials?

But shouldn't they know about everything that is happening in the unit? Or should they only look for swords?
no political instructors, zampovospos without authority ...

[lukke]

But shouldn't they know about everything that is happening in the unit? Or should they only look for swords?
no political instructors, zampovospos without authority

the immediate commander must first of all know about everything that happens in the subunit. Now, if it is "unearthed" that he was trying to commit a terrorist attack with a weapon, then do not worry, the special officer is stretched to the fullest for having missed the terrorist. And so - all the questions to the commander and deputy for educational work, + to the chief of the guard (he seems to have died) and to the side as a whole. Yes, now the porridge will be brewed, bless you. (and this is on the eve of a grandiose nix - a rally of all MO educators, as they wrote in the article below))))

[pv1005]

First of all, the immediate commander must know about everything that happens in the unit.

The direct commander closest to the serviceman is the direct commander (commander). The closest for the corporal in 99% will be the squad leader. At least from 1986 to 2013 it was so.

[Penetrator]

Quote: andrei332809

But shouldn't they know about everything that is happening in the unit? Or should they only look for swords?
no political instructors, zampovospos without authority ...

Somewhat wrongly, you understand the functional responsibilities of the military counterintelligence agencies. It can be said, very far from understanding.

[Slobber]

Sick. And then they will say that the soldier is to blame.

[Penetrator]

Quote: razgildyay

Sick. And then they will say that the soldier is to blame.

Do you feel sick? Wake up He is a murderer and, accordingly, guilty of causing death, although this does not cause doubt in you?

[Deniska]

The most terrible beast is a beast cornered.

We do not yet know what "personal motives"

[Slobber]

I will break into your pants on purpose, and then you will kill me. Total?

[Penetrator]

Quote: razgildyay

I will break into your pants on purpose, and then you will kill me. Total?

I do not touch the wretched.

[olegkrava]

Conclusion: one idiotic shot the floor of the guard, and on the Military Review website everyone got into a fight with each other. Democratic and tactful.

[armageddon]

There are simply NO words !!! Yes, the corporal himself judged and passed the verdict ... Myself, by the way, without appeal ... Don’t judge, let’s not judge ... I’m REALLY SORRY !!!

[would]

But can't it be like that? Maybe, as well as bringing to such a state by bullying.

[Penetrator]

Quote: rait

But can't it be like that? Maybe, as well as bringing to such a state by bullying.

Yes, everything can be. Just remember the murder of an Armenian family in Gyumri. Just recently, in VO there was a discussion of news about the trial of Permyakov, our military man suspected of this crime. So the verdict was not yet, he does not plead guilty, and the matter is very muddy. But how everyone turned up against him! And here you are making an unfortunate victim out of a clear killer. Tell about this to the parents of Corporal Bakhtin P., 1996, Senior Lieutenant A. Voronchikhin, 1990, Corporal Myakushko A., 1991., Corporal Kosachev A. 1995. Weak?

[would]

Tell about this to the parents of Corporal Bakhtin P., 1996, Senior Lieutenant A. Voronchikhin, 1990, Corporal Myakushko A., 1991., Corporal Kosachev A. 1995. Weak?

If the victims are guilty of this, then it is easy and not weak. But whether they are guilty is a question of the answer to which I do not know.

And it happens, as I said in different ways: Here is a soldier hanged himself, everyone will immediately say that "hazing", bullying, and so on. Option. And in my practice, I am familiar with a case of serious insanity when a suicide believed that his mother had sent him a letter stating that his 7 best friends drowned on the river. There was no letter, the mother of the fighter did not know what was going on at all, the fighter was in some kind of incomprehensible state and it all ended with a consultation with a psychiatrist and most likely demobilization for health reasons. Spring was typical. But they would not have had time to pull him out of the loop, they would not have learned anything.

So I repeat: It can be very different and in view of the fact that the shooter committed suicide, we most likely will not restore the whole picture of the incident.

[kil 31]

Ministry of Defense reports It seems forbidden to disclose to the media. It will now begin on Rain and Echo. It’s not good enough, but let the military prosecutor’s office understand, not the media.

[Deniska]

100% finished the guy!

[97110]

Quote: Deniska

100% finished the guy!

From my own experience. The chef put the peas in the soup before serving. The unit commander always ate from a common pot. The cooks were sent to a platoon to grow above themselves. He escaped. For tomorrow we took the sisters at the apartment. He explained that he would no longer run, but would hang himself. After the survey, he left (no lie) in Allakurti, as an ordinary motorized rifleman. He wrote later that he was. Have you brought it? This is 1977-78. The mentality of people was stronger, and they did not know "soldiers' mothers" yet. The boss is not always to blame, even if you know for sure that the "bureaucrats at the trough" are to blame for everything. It happens to the "I", and it happens to the "e". Anything can happen.

[AlexSK]

How can you give 100, 200 have you personally been there? Why give out their guesses for the truth? I consider all these fortune-telling inappropriate. Conclusions need to be drawn after the investigation.

[Prisoner]

At a starling in peacetime, losses are such that in the war they would have hit on the bulldozer, mother do not grieve. He did not organize the service, apparently the military chose the wrong profession. He died and the soldier killed. At 25 years old and so leave. Sorry. It’s scary to even think about parents.

[svp67]

What have you done boy. He brought so much grief to his family and the families of others ... It is a pity that there was no person nearby who could help you ...
Mourn

[almost demobil]

Quote: svp67

What have you done boy. He brought so much grief to his family and the families of others ... It is a pity that there was no person nearby who could help you ... I grieve

Better regret the guys he killed.

[svp67]

Quote: almost demobilized

Better regret the guys he killed.

You probably read, but you don’t get the point. And ABOUT WHICH OTHER FAMILIES I spoke, what do you think?

[veteran66]

Quote: svp67

You probably read, but you don’t get the point

there are many of them, the first line is read, and the text and meaning, as they say: "niasilil", just to quickly throw the slogan.

[veteran66]

Quote: almost demobilized

Better regret the guys he killed.

it is still unknown why he killed them, maybe the road is there for them

[Siberia 9444]

This is woe to the parents of the dead! We need to figure out if "hazing" is how they could bring the guy to this! Where did the fathers of the commanders look! Only the army has become prestigious and there are so many deaths. My condolences to parents, this is a disaster.

[Oman 47]

99% - have guessed.

[Penetrator]

Quote: Oman 47

99% - have guessed.

Do you think that in the current army there is hazing?

[svp67]

Quote: Penetrator

Do you think that in the current army there is hazing?

Do you think that it was completely eradicated? Alas, no, although they pressed very hard. Just a fight should go on constantly with any of its manifestations. Then, alas, they did not have time.

[Penetrator]

Quote: svp67

Quote: Penetrator

Do you think that in the current army there is hazing?

Do you think that it was completely eradicated? Alas, no, although they pressed very hard. Just a fight should go on constantly with any of its manifestations. Then, alas, they did not have time.

Why do you judge so categorically? Apparently, the perpetrator and the victim (except for the officer, of course) of the same draft. There is no need to talk about classical bullying. Let's at least then change the term to "hazing" or something.

[gladcu2]

Where there are many people gathered together there will always be conflicts.

It is important to properly train officers and give them methods of suppressing conflicts.

For example, to identify leaders and their victims and balance the tension.

Well this is ideal. But in real life you need to strictly follow the daily routine so that the soldiers have no time to dope.

[Hleb]

give them methods

exactly

Well this is ideal

it's real! in normal units, contractual, such moments are decided in a collective and without regard to the committees of some mothers and charters, which the command professes for the unit’s indicators, and not for a healthy army spirit

[Mikhail m]

Not the first such case. The boy’s psyche went. It is surprising that the dead are all corporal and the guard, and wounded sergeants and foremen.

[gladcu2]

What the hell is a boy?

His name is a soldier. The adult has already taken responsibility.

[veteran66]

Quote: gladcu2

The adult has already taken responsibility.

Got it? Entrusted, he is a draftee. Do you think that as he came to the draft board, he immediately became an adult? If...

[Bronik]

If only they wouldn’t be appointed indiscriminately. It’s not easy to shoot at yourself. It’s a pity the boys (everyone).

[ALEA IACTA EST]

So soon, our Armed Forces will again begin to consider a bunch of idiots and loonies ...

[Bronik]

In any army in the state there are psychologists, just so that military personnel do not fool around or get crazy. And this is also the task of the father-commander.
I’m not minus anyone in the dialogs.

[97110]

Quote: ALEA IACTA EST

So soon n

If we start ourselves. No information, the verdict rendered. And they burst into tears - we go. And read the comments - enemies are not needed. We smear the tar ourselves. Let's go feathers wallowing!

[holgert]

... I agree !!! there are bastards everywhere, but you don’t need to judge the Armed Forces !!! Of course, the guilt of the commanders is visible here !!!

[The boat]

Quote: holgert

there are bastards everywhere, but you don’t have to judge about them !!!

funny. If such news came not from Kostroma, but, say, from Zhitomir, and the persons involved in it would be the soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine. I imagine what would start here) "Genetic ypod", "put a little", "explained to the dypaky how to remove the fuse ... on his head", "yes he was drunk, stopudovo ...", "one hundred percent infa on Twitter - under the foolishness! "," What can you expect from a fascist with brainwashed by Poroshenko's propaganda, comrades? " etc. Well, and the general conclusion - "The Armed Forces of Ukraine ... but the steps!"

[fyodor]

Quote: Das Boot

funny. If such news came not from Kostroma, but, say, from Zhytomyr, and the APU soldiers would be involved in it

You know, you are right in some way, if the discussion were sarcastic-critical, I repent myself sinful, but if it happened, say in some kind of National Battalion or right-wing SEC, I would only be glad, would not discuss, but I would be glad. about APU, too, I would not say anything now they row everyone in spite of their health, so there are much more chances that this will happen, but death is not a topic for mockery. except for frank Nazi scumbags, the earth is glassy to them.

[Islander]

We slept, relaxed, commanders ...

I led different people, but I was always aware of what was happening inside the team, regardless of the number of subordinates. This is the essence of fulfilling any tasks and overcoming any difficulties. This is the MAIN.
And here on the face - the dullness of the authorities, which led to deaths.

Direct commander and partly in all severity. I hope you don’t need to teach Shoigu.

You will not return the boys, the kingdom of heaven.

Today is 100 grams. Exclusively for peace. Pancake...

[Kovlad]

Psychology. I do not condone or condemn. Must figure it out. When he served, they were ... er ... excesses. With normal development and upbringing, you can stand the answer and be able to give without killing, but specifically. Well, if a guy without a father grew up and his mother kissed him all the time, then yes, it’s so difficult.

[sabakina]

The news says nothing in which camp. So there are 2 of them: 331 PDP + artillery regiment of the Airborne Forces and the military academy of KhRBZ.
Well, there will be horse racing hopak today on the censor of 10 pages ...

[The boat]

Quote: sabakina

Well, there will be horse racing hopak today on the censor of 10 pages ...

yes let them jump. It is what it is. and they have nothing to object to.

[Egevich]

and the starter, and the assistant and the breeder ... as well as everyone who was nearby ... would have flunked the others, but didn’t have time to shoot him himself, I think so ... not a fact that hazing, oh not a fact .. . wait for the official conclusions ...

[sabakina]

What did you get?
-Our, 331, 3 baht, 9 company.
A friend who was on a contract in the regiment says the 9th company is "eternal flyers". It is unknown who is being recruited.
-All conscripts. Contractors will not engage in such nonsense. What was on personal grounds is unknown.
“A young wife must give birth to a lieutenant.”

[Hleb]

all conscripts? look at the years of birth, despite the fact that corporals and foremen.
Yes, about contractors, you can also write here in order

[sabakina]

The sergeant major could have caught a bullet by accident, he wanted to take away / take the barrel up / to the side ... You were there, saw how it was? A friend will not speak in vain, because he served as a contract. Yes, they went to Levashovo for vodka, so what? They live in tents (except for tankers, those in barracks), weapons in the pyramid. The contract soldier has a wife, children and, in the end, a contract that is not sickly paid (if you wonder how much, I can check with Stas). I have already written about the "eternal flyers" of the 2nd company.

[Hleb]

what are you talking about my friend here? and what difference does it make, whether I was there or not, for conscripts they began to say — so I tell you — look at the birth years. look at the photo. the eyes of the veil swam? or brain?

[sabakina]

Unlike you, I do not know this regiment from stories. I myself have been from headquarters to subsidiary farming, I know how and how the regiment lived / lives during the USSR and after the collapse. And my friend, who recently quit due to health reasons to help me. And if you think that as a child, being in the regiment and at the shooting range, tankodrome, tents in Pesochny, I did not understand how my father served and what atmosphere in military unit 71211 — you are very deeply mistaken!
I can only say one thing, after the collapse of the Soviet Union, the expression "there is such a profession to protect the Motherland" faded into the background.
P.S. My father, Art. pr-shchik was friends with the regiment Voronin. But this last name will not tell you anything ... It's me that the fish rots from the head ...

[Hleb]

I hadn’t noticed before that you were a troll. more annoying. did you decide to surprise me here with your adventures in the back rooms, or did you decide to tell about your friendship?

And if you think that as a child, being in the regiment and at the shooting range, tankodrome, tents in Pesochny, I did not understand how my father served and what atmosphere in military unit 71211 — you are very deeply mistaken!

I don’t even care how your father served and who he is.
change your shoes if you don’t have the courage to answer honestly.
wrote -

All conscripts. Contractors will not engage in such nonsense

if you don’t agree, then you could say that LifeNews is blatantly lying, that Corporal Myakushko is 24 years old serving as an urgent, junior sergeant Ivanov is 24 years old, Sergeant Lamov at 30 and also received the rank of foreman, Sergeant Petrutin.
either they would say that they were not there at all, or that they were 18 years old.

[I am a Russian]

Quote: sabakina

tents in the Sand

yeah ... in this place they looked at the soldiers as at .... Some are not worthy to carry the rank of officer.

[alone]

They brought the guy, what can I say. Among the dead and wounded, the youngest. It's a pity.

[31R-US]

But were you there? Tell us how it happened.

[alone]

Quote: 31R-US

But were you there? Tell us how it happened.

And how can you explain what happened? The guy just took the machine gun and killed wounded colleagues for fun, and then committed suicide, right? And this is only because there can be no hazing in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, the soldiers communicate among themselves as gallant cavaliers. Do you believe that he did it for no reason?

[namer]

Quote: lonely

soldiers communicate among themselves as gallant gentlemen

it is (hi Omar!)

Two soldiers repaired the wiring. Suddenly a scream, noise, a three-story mat.
They began to understand. One soldier is asked what happened.
- Yes, Petrov soldered the wiring on the ceiling, and I kept the stepladder. Suddenly he
dripped solder right by my scruff of the neck.
“And what did you say?”
- I said: Comrade soldier, please be careful. You on me
drip with molten tin.
."

[roskot]

Seen well got it. But this is not a matter of one day. The obvious flaw in the officers.

[I am a Russian]

Quote: roskot

The obvious flaw in the officers.

There, even before the officers "missed" ... The army is like an exam ... either you become a man or a hanger for your pants.

Although it is already full of male people for whom it is not fashionable to be a man.

[alexander 2]

It is time to introduce an article into the Criminal Code: "Driving to murder." Guessing the same, not knowing all the circumstances, you can endlessly. Let the prosecutor's office figure it out. My condolences to all family and friends.

[pv1005]

First, flip through the Criminal Code, and then write "smart" things.

[Lentosder]

And there are also such * births as this kid. I served in 2009-2010. We had all soldiers and officers grunted for any irregular relationships. And each soldier had a memo with numbers to call if anything. And they called by the way.

If anyone touched him, this is not a reason for everyone to blame the back door!

[VladimS]

It’s not good enough, but let the military prosecutor’s office understand, not the media.

Absolutely right! Not the media THINK (journalists)! Oh, how they can do it .. we all know.
We are good here too! We’re not throwing any versions here ... Why?
Not just everything. Because there can be dozens of options, and the real one is the only one and has already occurred. Sorry for the people. Very young, to live and still live. Oh!

[Alex Nick]

Yes, at least they got you, but psycho grabs at the machine. What did he do in the army? And the company is out of business. What is he doing there too?

[atamankko]

There is a minimum of information, therefore, it is not necessary to draw conclusions who is to blame.

[020205]

Who’s to blame? From the unit commander to the unit commander, that’s the whole story! We always do it, I served, we had terry hazing and there were no such cases, the nose was broken and the guys fell on stools themselves! And a friend served in 2009- 2010 so there the double bass extorted money from them, they didn’t break off anything !!!

[a-cola]

Strange, corporal. It’s just served a half year. Despite the fact that they serve only a year. I doubt that hazing. They could just get away with nothing to do. Word for word, everyone has a weapon ...

[AdekvatNICK]

when I wrote about what had happened, they made me sick.

on the topic, when a part of the army arrived with a fresh tune, they saw a hell of a hell. They found out that two had escaped. One month left to serve another month. They dumped them with guns. While they were running, they took the dude hostage by car, they got there somewhere, then they shot at cops, as a result they were found they blocked them in the dachas in the house, they waved white flags, but the cops avenged theirs just failed everyone. Here you ask, where was the brain? half a year and a month home. But there isn’t everything in Vin Diesel’s soul. There were lots of boobies in the army. There were direct prosecutors. But people didn’t go to complain. They swallowed blades, nails, needles, hung up, but the prosecutor’s for them was something out of the ordinary. The question is, why did your parents give life to you if you decided to kill yourself? it’s already psychology. It’s better to run to the prosecutor’s office. Or get transferred. To whom he did better is not clear.
On the hike, the huddled "herd" worn out the one whom they chose as the target of ridicule and humiliation.
IMHO. Because as if a terrorist attack he would go and shoot at the barracks. There is clearly a showdown of personal interests.

[Irkut]

Assumptions here may be different. Accept mine: it’s hard to live in the army without drugs. The roof goes ... Let them investigate and tell us. And then we can tell a lot.

[Hleb]

it’s hard to live without drugs in the army

Yes, it’s almost impossible. without drugs in general in the army anywhere. the roof is going)) what is there to talk about here)

[AdekvatNICK]

maybe he meant that it’s hard for addicts there. And you attacked))

[Hleb]

I personally did not throw and did not minus. answered sarcastically, but did he put it amusingly? go, sort it out, if it’s written out of context

it’s hard to live without drugs in the army

)

[Irkut]

That's right, buddy! Bravo, I started you!

[The boat]

Quote: Irkut

Accept mine: it’s hard to live in the army without drugs.

about how. Develop a thought:
“For Shoigu, a special board is delivered from Afgan, although, according to rumors, he prefers Colombian. In the Pskov division, porridge is cooked in hemp oil. ... "

[Irkut]

I missed just one word: "drug addicts." For this I got so many drawbacks. You should read: "It is difficult for drug addicts in the army to live without drugs." And in general, someone can guarantee that our armed forces cannot get people with such "disease"?

[Hleb]

with LifeNews
Art. Lieutenant Voronchikhin. died

ml Lieutenant Ivanov. injured

Corporal Myakushko. died

foreman Petrutin. injured

Corporal Kosachev. died

[Hleb]

like this is he

[AdekvatNICK]

even though it’s a year to serve everything, it seems to me that the requirements have grown for the soldiers and they are losing their nerves. Constantly, the anxieties of the exercises. Unfortunately, there is no 100% protection against this. You can’t attach every nanny.

[Nikoha.2010]

Quote: AdekvatNICK

even though it’s a year to serve everything, it seems to me that the requirements have grown for the soldiers and they are losing their nerves. Constantly, the anxieties of the exercises. Unfortunately, there is no 100% protection against this. You can’t attach every nanny.

A year is just nonsense. Six months in training and six months in part. And alarms and doctrines on the contrary. + Nehru from idleness to toil with all sorts of nonsense. The men killed by a colleague are truly sorry. I won't say anything about the "arrow". I'm not an investigator. There was everything under the USSR, I myself know not by hearsay, but then there was no such "publicity" of the state of emergency, let alone the Internet and mobile communications. IMHO!

[Manul]

Quote: Nikoha.2010

Year is just nonsense.

And if in prison? Where unbearable conditions, and a month for three years, hell stretches.

[Nikoha.2010]

Quote: Manul

And if in prison? Where unbearable conditions, and a month for three years, hell stretches.

Ilya, where is the prison?

[YGV-97219]

Nothing new! There have been such cases, and most likely they will be, no matter how regrettable it sounded! We must carefully analyze each incident, although in most cases they are associated with so-called bullying, therefore, this prehistoric infection must be fought!

[halzan7]

what a pancake assumptions can be not an army, but a "kindergarten" only kids with big eggs and no brains. To do them is simply neher, there is a lot of free time. The "paletteruka" work is completely absent. My deputy boy said this: If a soldier is overcome by bad thoughts or desires, then there is only one command "FALLED BACK!"

[020205]

Quote: AdekvatNICK

even though it’s a year to serve everything, it seems to me that the requirements have grown for the soldiers and they are losing their nerves. Constantly, the anxieties of the exercises. Unfortunately, there is no 100% protection against this. You can’t attach every nanny.

There is more crime, extorted money, here’s the guy’s chip and not only the chip shot, unfortunately !!!

[duschman80-81]

Until the end of the investigation, no conclusions can be drawn. It is easiest to blame it on "bullying", but other factors cannot be ruled out in any way.

[020205]

This is definitely not hazing, then he would bring down grandfathers, not green officers !!!

[31R-US]

In no case do not want to offend the army, but if there are the same specialists as in the police, then sadness

[Boa kaa]

I read all the comments. Everyone has their own story, their own * viewing angles * of the incident ...
What I would like to say. There was a system (bad-good - the second question) that weeded out * weak links * in the guard chain. The deputy kept a record of letters, after each he talked with a fighter, the psychologist tested and gave a conclusion about the degree of psychological readiness to carry CS and psychological resistance to adverse factors in the service. Sergeants and foremen took care of the weak, did not give them an insult. Helped fellow countrymen who served more than you. The commander monitored the fair distribution of outfits and bringing everything to the standard supply standards to each soldier. So it was back in 1971 ...
They broke the system, but did not create a new one! For the needs of the day, priests of the regiments were introduced (Here it is necessary to ask from him!).
And if I am a Jew, Muslim, Mohammedan, Buddhist ... And what, should I speak of my faith with a long-lived Orthodox priest? And if I'm an atheist or a Baptist, then what?
Psychologists were removed. Expensive. Sociologists and deputies with special training - no. Everyone put on the father-commander. Yes, even a pile of papers loaded to discourage the desire for service completely!
But his main task is to organize the battle, to teach the troops combat use.
I have loved fliers all my life. Only the best could become a deputy: a pilot of at least 2 classes, showing a personal example, a soulful person, knowledgeable in people, wise in life experience MAN! Everyone came to him with his own problem, and he listened to everyone, helped with advice and deed ... Oh, there were BOLSHEVIKI! The communists. The CPSU and the USSR have collapsed ... A strong national idea will make everyone stronger ... But where is it now?
Ideas were replaced by the ruble, ideals were replaced by mask culture ... Therefore, we are reaping what has grown out of this.
In a specific case, the trackers will understand.
But without correcting the general situation with the moral education of people, we will always come across such incidents.
It is necessary to return the system of education of the people in the spirit of love for the Motherland, its heroic past, the traditions of the ancestors. And you need to start this from the kindergarten age! Then the thug will think three times whether it is worth raising a hand to a colleague ... starting from vulgar hazing and up to the execution of colleagues. IMHO.

[Manul]

Quote: Boa constrictor KAA

I read all the comments. Everyone has their own story, their own * viewing angles * of the incident ...
What I would like to say. There was a system (bad-good - the second question) that weeded out * weak links * in the guard chain. The deputy kept a record of letters, after each he talked with a fighter, the psychologist tested and gave a conclusion about the degree of psychological readiness to carry CS and psychological resistance to adverse factors in the service. Sergeants and foremen took care of the weak, did not give them an insult. Helped fellow countrymen who served more than you. The commander monitored the fair distribution of outfits and bringing everything to the standard supply standards to each soldier. So it was back in 1971 ...
They broke the system, but did not create a new one! For the needs of the day, priests of the regiments were introduced (Here it is necessary to ask from him!).
And if I am a Jew, Muslim, Mohammedan, Buddhist ... And what, should I speak of my faith with a long-lived Orthodox priest? And if I'm an atheist or a Baptist, then what?
Psychologists were removed. Expensive. Sociologists and deputies with special training - no. Everyone put on the father-commander. Yes, even a pile of papers loaded to discourage the desire for service completely!
But his main task is to organize the battle, to teach the troops combat use.
I have loved fliers all my life. Only the best could become a deputy: a pilot of at least 2 classes, showing a personal example, a soulful person, knowledgeable in people, wise in life experience MAN! Everyone came to him with his own problem, and he listened to everyone, helped with advice and deed ... Oh, there were BOLSHEVIKI! The communists. The CPSU and the USSR have collapsed ... A strong national idea will make everyone stronger ... But where is it now?
Ideas were replaced by the ruble, ideals were replaced by mask culture ... Therefore, we are reaping what has grown out of this.
In a specific case, the trackers will understand.
But without correcting the general situation with the moral education of people, we will always come across such incidents.
It is necessary to return the system of education of the people in the spirit of love for the Motherland, its heroic past, the traditions of the ancestors. And you need to start this from the kindergarten age! Then the thug will think three times whether it is worth raising a hand to a colleague ... starting from vulgar hazing and up to the execution of colleagues. IMHO.

Uh .. Well, a review .. I take off my hat and copy to replenish the arguments in the argument for the truth. Thank you

[fyodor]

Quote: Manul

I read all the comments. Everyone has their own story, their own * viewing angles * of the incident ...

I also read all the comments, but not all spoke out that screenings are going on at the initial stage, that is, with the medical board of the military registration and enlistment office, I myself know the case when psychologists or psychotherapists doubted that they wouldn’t be worthless, but since he goes to serve with a friend, it’s like nothing, in the end, the friend fell ill and was commited, the people were left alone and in the end ... there was no one killed, he just ran away and was also commissary, but what’s the moral, that screening should be done by the military commissariat without a hack, although I don’t know what psychologists bought diplomas but had previously predicted it at times, although they also relied on chance, but the reaction was predicted by aggression there or suicide, but now that you take everyone in a row as a Supreme Military Court, if only to fulfill the plan. So the commanders have nothing to do with it, at the initial stage it is necessary to know who and with what mobile psyche to take to the army, the medical board is to blame, or rather their psychiatrists.

[sgazeev]

I don’t know if there were psychologists in military registration and enlistment offices in the USSR, but there were psychotherapists. They used a hammer to determine the nervous state, excitability of the conscript. A young soldier (salaga) of 1965 conscription arrived in our battalion, they were assigned to the engineering and technical staff company, during the service he avoided fulfilling orders, they suffered transferred in the service platoon the same thing. They were assigned to the battery, not even a week had passed, when on a park service day he hanged himself at the starting position on a bitch, having previously distributed the debts. Here is a story. And in those days they served for three years. There were no crossbows on guard. 1964gg. The guy did not want to serve, in those days they did not know what "hazing" was. There was a gradation according to the years of service: "salaga", "young", "old man", bullying, in
There was no extortion. He himself served for three years and I remember the soldiers' service, they went to the army 19 years old and up to 28 years. Before the army he worked as an electrician for three years, and now they are taking him from school.

[Oml]

What do you mean brought to the murder? It can be killed either by a scumbag, or a resentful person, or a stupid person, or ... What kind of nerves do they lose? What requirements have grown? Is the service now at least approximately comparable with the times of 20 and beyond? It's just that everything is superficial now, people are not sure about the future. The topic is difficult, in any case, not an option. Sometimes they kill that looked wrong. But this is an army, excuse me with a small letter.

[Chulman]

I still remember two (by their last names), whom I would have shot now! So "grandfathers" are different

[Oleg56.ru]

All this is of course unpleasant, but gentlemen, forum users, I have a question for you. Surely many of you went as guards of the guard and you know that loading weapons is carried out upon entering a post outside the guardhouse at the place of loading weapons under the control of NK or PNK. Weapons are taken from the pyramid only with the permission of the Tax Code. It turns out that the sentry independently took weapons from a pyramid locked in the lock, the keys to which are kept by the chief of the guard, loaded the machine gun and opened fire. The question is, who is to blame? Psychologists, fathers commanders, or guard officers who allowed this incident? Even if the shift came from the post, they are still discharged outside the guardhouse and the guard should not go into the guardhouse with loaded weapons. It turns out that at that time all the articles of the UGiKS NK and PNK, breeding, etc. were violated. Such an opinion just develops, it’s even scary for this opinion ....

[Massik]

We don’t know the details, there can be a lot of options. This is not a front-line region, so the relaxation of comrade double basses was anyway. Another thing is that any more or less normal person can not decide on such a reason without good reason.

[MORDVIN13rus]

About the COP. When I was in my military service, at night, NK and Divorce were breathing, and the guards and sentries ran themselves changing, loading and unloading weapons either on the run or already on guard, and no one had any idea to shoot, although the remnants of hazing were still sometimes either NL or Divorce scum turned out to be, did not give sleep at all. Although in part and in Sochi they ran and even one hanged himself with us. Treble 32390 2008-2010 drifted there.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Oleg56.ru

loading of weapons is carried out upon entering a post outside the guardhouse at the place of loading of weapons under the control of NK or PNK.

Respected! You forget that the sentry, changing from a post (becoming a guard) to a guardhouse, goes with a store adjoined to the AKM. He discharges it already in the guardroom. So he * discharged it * by removing it from the fuse and jerking the shutter ... By the way, some jerk the shutter at the post, put the AKM on the fuse - * ready for battle! * This also happened.

Quote: Oleg56.ru

all the same, they are discharged outside the guardhouse and the guard should not go into the guardhouse with a loaded weapon.

Yes, he apparently did not go. He put those whom the nachkar replaced from his posts. And jumped out to the shooting - wounded. Then he decided himself. Is it logical?

[31R-US]

But in general, now it is becoming interesting to go to the guards with a "fart" a bunch of certificates for everything, pay for everything, the AK army is allocated (from a personal neighbor, the son serves, I didn’t entrust the slingshot to him, he goes to the guard with AK, drunk every day in the area to the army arranged fights) I can not figure it out, probably old age

[Thompson]

Quote: FIREMAN

Without evidence, conversation is pointless. Maybe he returned from vacation or dismissal, there is a girlfriend in bed with another. I do not know two such cases by hearsay. I waited for the first guard and forth. If the actual circumstances are unknown, you can build versions as you like. Although the version with hazing is plausible in this case, judging by the age of the participants.

It's not that. Usually in such a situation, a crossbow and that’s all. And then he shot ... Obviously unregulated relationship.
Let them figure it out ... Although .. everything is now blamed on the guy! All ends in the water ...

[AdekvatNICK]

a lot of victims, wang, they will remove the battalion commander and the commander of the unit. In all parts, the prosecutor’s office will check the boys with visiting conversations. They will return psychologists. The victims will be compensated and arrange for the funeral of those wounded in Moscow for treatment.

[ingenera]

Why is everyone so excited? During my service (1971-73), orders on this occasion were sometimes read out. The situation is called: "I got to the military weapon." And neither hazing nor other circumstances justify it. We dealt with the offenders in a different way. We went on guard every other day. Weapons are separate, and offenses are separate - somehow it was. Or were we “sub-sub” in the sense of the psyche?

[tolancop]

I support. I served later, but the situation was similar.
There have always been accidents similar to what happened, only there was not a half-line about it in the press - they would announce at the post that an incident occurred in part N and date another command center to the commanders "to keep an eye out." And not always hazing was the cause of the murders, it didn't happen once. Blaming the commander is the simplest thing that the "top" often do while covering their 5th point. And there will be a cloud of reasons for "brain wedging" - one was beaten by colleagues, another received a bad letter from home, and the third one simply "went crazy" from life in the barracks. And you can't get into everyone's head. I will drink blood to the commander of the HF - that's for sure, but it's possible that they will objectively figure it out. In my unit there was a fatal case as a result of knowingly using weapons. The commander (the real one was a COMMANDER !!!) according to the results of the analysis, if he suffered, then not much. But he had to write a letter to the mother of the deceased ... But how to explain that the son, who was expected at home in a month or two, will not come? Will never come! ...
The situation was difficult. And primitive in its stupidity - just came together 2 .... one shooter, and the other victim. One of them fulfilled the charter to the letter, and the other died as a result ... I mention this especially for the "lover of regulations" ... Anything has happened ...

[halzan7]

not more oak but more circumspect. and not only about themselves "loved ones" thought. and understood that military weapons only against the enemy, and not a colleague, no matter how bastard he was !!!!

[Cananecat]

The most offensive thing is that they won't find non-regulations, and the dude will say "I wanted to scare," he will be declared insane and will go to the durke ...

[Aleksey_K]

The media appears details of the tragic incident in the military field camp of the Kostroma region. The Ministry of Defense reports (from a LifeNews report) that the corporal of the Russian Armed Forces, using automatic weapons, opened fire on his colleagues who were at that moment in the guardhouse with him.

Either the media messed up everything, or in this part a complete mess, or the charter of the guard service changed for the worse. This charter clearly states that loading and unloading weapons is carried out at a special place. After loading, the changing of the guard, no longer getting into the guardhouse, receives an order to take over the posts. Only a bad chief of the guard could violate this provision of the charter. After returning from the post, first of all, all the guards unload their weapons, make a control "shot" and only after that the changing of the guard in formation gets into the guard room, but before that they put the machine guns at the place where the weapons are stored. And no one has the right to just take a weapon and start loading it. In the rooms for rest and wakefulness - weapons should not be. This means there were violations in the organization of the guard in this part. Therefore, the officers are to blame, at least for the fact that they themselves constantly violated the Charter of the guard service. Why did I say that the changing of the guard goes in formation to the guardhouse because then the soldiers see their comrades and what who is doing with weapons. I, as the chief of the guard, came in last. And no one on guard could not use a weapon without sanction.
Of course, a fantastic case is possible when all the enemies of a soldier could be in one shift and while the weapon was loaded he could use it. But so that there were several corporal, sergeants and foremen in the shift - a complete lie, and where the rank and file, they also had to suffer from accidental hits. And the head of the guard was to follow the guard until complete disarmament.

[Yeraz]

I’m interested in something else. It’s because there was a law on NON-DISCLOSURE OF NOT FIGHTING LOSSES !!! MOL GOSTAIN NOW. What kind of secret is this when everyone found out about it in a second ???

[Razvedchik]

Those who write that we don’t know and most likely we don’t know are right. Here you can guess the exact info without figs!
Personal. 2003, summer, July. Grodno. 6 OMBR. Art. s-t, a contractor ZRDN, a guard, a traveling guard, by the way the local himself dumped with a barrel and two shops. He ran after him as part of the duty unit. Itself surrendered, without casualties. I saw him in the district hospital brought for examination - mowed this deserter of horseradish under imbecile.
2004 year. While on guard, I read a summary of the incidents on the guard. I don't remember exactly the year, but the case is hellish! In the "court" 120-ke Minsk, the PNK lieutenant, together with the diverting serge-conscript, threatening with weapons, disarmed two shifts in the guardhouse and, leaving the barrels and cartridges in the back of the expropriated guard "Ural", rushed after the "bird of ultramarine color", or "for the Revolution" , HZ.
"Stopped" on the highway with the help of MI-24 and taken prisoner by "Feljandarmerie". Also no casualties. But the motives are only You, Lord, know! Something like this.

[SPB 1221]

People are all different, some are more psychologically stable, others are less stable. They put one on the face and he’s like a flint, and they call him the second a fool, he will go and hang himself, unfortunately this is so.
He served in Kamchatka, an officer on a nearby boat, the lieutenant commander came at night, took a machine gun from the top watchman and released a line in his mouth. They started to understand, it turned out the wife was about to leave. Of course, psychologists in the army are needed, especially tests for admission to military service with weapons are needed, serious medical commissions are needed in military commissariats, because people come not only with flat feet, but also with problems in their heads. You can talk a lot, you can ask a lot of questions to everyone, but I think that we need to wait for an objective investigation of the objective and not the appointment of switchmen and then say who is right, who is to blame and to what extent.

[ava09]

Quote: gladcu2

The company was 130. 100 personnel and two partly assigned platoons.

Does any of you know? What does it mean to conduct combat training in a company?

This is not everyone in life had to do. Especially at the age of 18-20 years.

Feeling yourself depends on everyone’s personal ambitions ...) I read your skirmish with other servants, the question arose - which troops did you serve in? Although in the late 80s there was no mess in rare parts.

[gladcu2]

ava09

In the technical.

I went to the guard only in training. I do not consider myself ambitious. After the army, I avoid working with people.

[Garris199]

Cameras on the territory of the unit and in the barracks, the signal output to the command of the unit and above. For cases of hazing it is cruel to punish all who participated and those who did not stop. Punish as treason.

[Seal]

Bullying in the army is essentially no. But addicts, unfortunately, abound. I have a couple of years as a child served his year - he said. There is something to compare.

[antikilller55]

I agree, many people write about hazing and bringing a guy to suicide, but now almost everything is okay with this in the army (a relative, a year-old, is soon seen to be demobilized in parts), but there are enough spicemen, salt-men, heroin players and other ghouls both among double basses and among conscripts .

[Alexdark]

Such incidents always have one conclusion. The killer is crazy, he is to blame. After all, the dead will not tell why he did this. Most of the time, these things happen because of bullying. Wherever it can be. Be it an educational institution, an army, etc. (the difference is zero, even though you fight on the table). There is always one version in the media, the killer is a crazy sucker). And not these "killers" should be checked by psychologists before this happens. And those who were flunked, those who, probably because of the love of bullying and other unhealthy satisfaction, paid the price. These are the people who are mentally ill. Not the ones they brought out.

[Gouging]

Here, bad news, bad news. "Hazing" is a no brainer. I do not know what to say. Everyone went through this, all conscripts at least. I don't know what happened in real life, why the guy grabbed the machine gun. It hardly cost that many deaths. Although ... I don't know, but making assumptions is stupid.