About Panther and strategic eggs in one basket

First about the good. As it turned out recently, the gondola of the device for setting and retrieving a flexible extended towed hydroacoustic complex antenna (UPV GPBA GAK) on the recently published Tigra photo portrait (ref. 1), still belongs to Panther. In another photo from b345 (forums.airbase.ru), taken in the same place at the same hour, this is clearly visible. The hydrodynamically perfect shape of the PLAC Project 971 by inexperience can only be confused with the 671RTMK, but the elongated ("limousine") fencing leaves no doubt that we have before us the only naval "Pike-B" of the Russian Navy and one of two or three combat-ready cruising nuclear submarines of the Red Banner Northern fleet.

"Panther" in the company of five SSBNs (the fifth is almost not visible), Gadzhievo, 01.01-08.08.2015 (photo from b345 from forums.airbase.ru)

Now about the sad. Being in the base of five SSBNs is also suggestive. Assuming that one of the seven strategists of the Federation Council is still on combat patrol ("Tula" is under repair at Zvezdochka "), the KOH of our northern group of NSNF is only 0,14 (instead of the desired 0,33 or close to the ideal 0,5). On the one hand, this may not seem so important: when launching an SLBM of the R-29RMU2 “Sineva” 11500 km (link 2), to Washington - “only” 6740 km, and to San Francisco - 7950 km, while that all its ammunition BDRM able to release the "queue" for 3,5 min. (14 seconds between launches, as during the legendary operation "Behemoth-2" in 1991. - link 3). That is, if a nuclear strike is delivered from the US territory to the Russian Federation, the 15-20 flight minutes of the American ICBMs (with v = 7 km / s) of the 31-th division in combat duty will be enough to shoot at answer.

On the other hand, one of the potential enemy SSBNs can patrol somewhere in the Danish Strait, 2300 km from Gadzhiyevo - at the minimum launch distance of the Trident-2 (*) (5,5 min. Flight of the SLBM). In this case, the 50% of the naval component of the nuclear triad of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will be destroyed by a single warhead purely preventively (two short minutes is hardly enough to make a fateful decision about a nuclear response). For complacency, you can, of course, look for excuses in the absence of a threatened period (by relying on the SVR) and in readiness to quickly go to sea if something happens (taking into account the average repairs and VTGs completed and staffing on a contract basis). However, it will be much better to think about raising KOH and at least some dispersal - instead of crowding in one OPB, almost tied to the board to the board (almost like in Pearl Harbor). Relaxation is a treacherous lady, abuse of her by anyone and never lead to good. ■

(*) The minimum launch range was kindly suggested by ak_12.

"Karelia" and "Ekaterinburg", Gadzhievo, 01.01-08.08.2015 (photo from b345 from forums.airbase.ru)

"Yuri Dolgorukiy", Gadzhievo, 01.01-08.08.2015 (photo from b345 from forums.airbase.ru)

Novomoskovsk and Verkhoturye, Gadzhievo, 01.01-08.08.2015 (photo from b345 from forums.airbase.ru)

Comments

[Gamdlislyam]

The article has the clear purpose of launching "lice doubts" in the country's defense capability and the competence of the Navy leadership (and the commander-in-chief with the Defense Ministry leadership). The arguments (if it can be called arguments) are calculated on the ignorance of the readers, on their incompetence. The psychologically correct move of the fifth column is to sow doubt.
Opus put a minus.

[Tanais]

Quote: Gamdlislyam

The article has the clear purpose of launching "lice doubts" in the country's defense capability and the competence of the Navy leadership (and the commander-in-chief with the Defense Ministry leadership). The arguments (if it can be called arguments) are calculated on the ignorance of the readers, on their incompetence. The psychologically correct move of the fifth column is to sow doubt.
Opus put a minus.

The funny thing is that the AUTHORITY is not traced ... "LJ", "Alexander Shishkin's Blog" and that's it ...

Is this Shishkin the author, is it a repost ... It's not clear

No links, no signatures ...

[veksha50]

Quote: Tanais

No links, no signatures ...

Yes, it's not about the links ... In the photo 5 (!!!) the nuclear submarines standing at the quays ...

The very essence of missile nuclear submarines as an integral part of the nuclear triad is their invisibility, their proximity to the enemy’s shores ...

In this case, they stand - like in a parade ... 5 nuclear submarines X 16 missiles = 80 missiles ... This is an almost full-fledged OS missile division from Voivod (Satan) ... And all this is in sight, without the ability to quickly hide, leave ...

Here the whole point is: the construction of individual berths, etc. there’s no money, and it’s not necessary to inflate the infrastructure ... But the fact that there should be a constant rotation - some of the boats are on the database, some are returned, moved to the position area for a shift, and some are on vacation and scheduled maintenance ... That is, in the same Gadzhievo for good, more than two boats in the base should not be at the same time !!!

PS Just do not need to say that missiles can be launched from the parking lot at the pier ... The conversation is not about that ...

[Mikhail Zubarev]

Firstly, it is not clear when the photo was taken. She may be at least 10 years old. And gentlemen, experts, give your conclusion that this is the third submarine, is it really a strategist?

[kote119]

the third in a row 971pr - multi-purpose

[imperialist]

Do you see "Northwind"? How can a photo be 10 years old?

[altman]

And in August in Gadzhievo snow lies?

[rubs]

There were snowfalls in June. In August there is no snow.

[tolian]

In the year 66, in mid-August, a snowstorm caused snowstorm at the airport near Murmansk (flew to Havana).

[Andrey NM]

In August there was practically no snow, sometimes pieces remained in the lowlands, but very rarely. Previously, the base was dispersed. The 13th division often stuck in the Reindeer Gub, the rest in the Gadzhievo. By the way, they began to develop Gremikha as a base point even in tsarist times, there was nothing to do about it, everything went on. Even then they were thinking about the development of bases and the cover of shipping. Holes in the rocks of the Balaclava type and in the North poked around, and for large ships. They probably didn’t dig ... BDRMs were used quite intensively in the late 80s, in a year the ship made two autonomous units, sometimes more.

[sub307]

Judging by the amount of snow in the hills, the photos were taken at about the same time, most likely the month of May is the beginning of June.

[rubs]

In the 80s he served there. It looks like on that pier where the multi-purpose man in the photo.
Then the piers were not empty either. More than five boats rested.
However, in my amateurish opinion, they had enough trouble. Hand over - take the boat. And prepare for the campaign, and stock up. Again, the teachings are different. Well this is not a taxi. Gas ticket and shift shift. Broke, I’ll call.

And the layout is well-known: everyone in the database will burn. God forbid to push another boat into the sea.

And if you stupidly estimate. Half the boats at sea, the other at the base. What is bad?

[AUL]

And you could not reasonedly to refute the facts that are given in the article? It would be interesting to get acquainted with your calculations.

[veksha50]

Quote: Gamdlislyam

The arguments (if it can be called arguments) are designed for the ignorance of readers, for their incompetence. Psychologically loyal course of the fifth column - to sow doubt.

Well, first of all, the five-column enemy TAK will not write ... A man is writing who is a fan of the safety of the marine part of our nuclear triad ...

And to confirm this version (the need to disperse the eggs) I can give an example: the OS missile division consisted of 10 regiments (with mine launchers), so the "shoulders" between the positional areas of these regiments reached 240 km ... That is, not only were the missiles in protected silos, they were also quite far from each other ...

Well, we won’t talk about cover ... in Soviet times, the forces and means to protect the positional area were stored under a bar with two zeros ...

So the point is not the authorship, but the fact that there really is a reason to think ... higher ...

[Nosgoth]

That is, “if I don’t like something” (violates my complacency) - you need to immediately throw the labels “he is from the fifth column, these are traitors,” liberasts?

The more often such words (accusations) are scattered, the less value they have. And more and more often, when you hear - "Yes, this is the fifth column to blame", you understand that a person (no matter who) is simply delirious with another persecution mania, and you do not take his words seriously. Here is the result of your "verbiage".

What kind of kindergarten?

[veksha50]

Quote: Nosgoth

That is, “if I don’t like something” (violates my complacency) - you need to immediately throw the labels “he is from the fifth column, these are traitors,” liberasts?

Sergey, if THIS your post is addressed to ME, then I already told you: CAREFULLY read the text, thoughtfully, and not hysteria ...

I just said that this review was NOT written by a five-column ... And in general, talking about fifth or tenth columns at the moment is a bunch in a puddle ...

And if you are already trying to answer someone - then do it targetedly ...

[Grandson of Veteran]

friends, my case is not typical at the age of 37. I decided that I want to serve in the submarine fleet. Rather, I decided it before. but the family perceived the moron. I want everything, cook, by anyone ..... This is mine .... I decided earlier, at 25 years old. Dad served at the Black Sea Fleet.

[Grandson of Veteran]

Well, they drove, the seaman))) I will ride tourists along the coast, and next time you will see the sea in the picture)) Thank you all)) Your Mom) Greetings)

[Monster_Fat]

Well, let's just say Gadzhievo is not just a place for "parking" boats, it is a strategic naval base and there is a lot of things in the hills there ... there are also means against ballistic missiles. But, here's how many missiles of a potential enemy they are designed for, a mystery.

[veksha50]

Quote: Monster_Fat

But, here is how many missiles of the probable enemy they are designed to be a secret.

In Soviet times, all this (Navy) was thoroughly protected ... But now ... And, again, you are right - this is a secret ...

But I don’t think that such a base is even heavily defended, even after what we had done to the army-navy-air defense in previous dashing times ...

[Nosgoth]

It means "everything is all right", do we sleep further?

[veksha50]

Quote: Nosgoth

It means "everything is all right", do we sleep further?

You not only read this, but also read my other posts ??? Or do you have an instant reaction to this momentary situation - who said something against your information ???

Who said everything is all right ??? And who said - that EVERYTHING is out of order ???

Do you have in your hands the plan of protection and defense of the naval base of the Gadzhievo ??? Top secret, by the way ... On which EVERYTHING that covers this base is painted, and in the explanatory note questions about interaction with the covering forces, ranging from infantry and ending with VKS means, are worked out ???
And you see from him that Gadzhiev is not covered ???

Yes, the fact that 5 submarines at the same time at the pier is not comme il faut ...
But it’s not necessary to link this fact with the issue of covering the base ... These are somewhat different things ...

[staryivoin]

I do not know whether it is a stuffing or not a stuffing. But the SSBN base is not a collective farm market where anyone can tumble. Well, for the air cover of the base, there is probably also something more reliable besides slingshots. About eggs in one basket, too, perhaps not a fact, but who they show more firmly in time. Only one agrees to relax is not worth it.

[Nosgoth]

Those. Are you claiming this is a photo montage?

[Rurikovich]

First, with modern means of communication, high-speed media and other "bells and whistles" of the modern world, a possible war will become known not now, but long ago. Therefore, the presence of all nuclear submarines on the naval base should not be embarrassing. Even with a very rapid deterioration of relations with a potential enemy, there will be enough time to bring the weapons into combat readiness and, if necessary, take the actions necessary to prevent possible damage, it can also be a change of deployment.
Secondly, it would be high time to restrict the access of various "analysts" to the bases of "strategists" so that ordinary people, who should be confident in their defenders, would not be confused by their "concern"!

[imperialist]

In a threatened period, it will be even more impossible to withdraw them from the base. This is the sure death of boats. Under the "cap" will be teeming with Los Angeles and Virginias, and we have only four combat-ready multipurpose nuclear submarines, two of which are Project 671RTMK boats. And in peacetime, sending a strategist to the BS without cover is not good.

[andrei.yandex]

The first photo speaks for itself if it is an installation. It’s worth considering.

[sevtrash]

Strange reaction from some - like "keep out and keep quiet." And what is this site for then, if not for discussion and talk? The probable enemy has much more complete information, most likely the nuclear submarine base under the constant control of satellites, drones, installed sensors, and residency.
As for KOH, it is difficult to expect anything else. Look at Google how at least the nuclear submarine bases of Americans, Europeans and the same Gadzhievo look.

[veksha50]

Quote from rudolf

With such efficiency in the use of armaments, deploying ICBMs (SLBMs) ​​on a nuclear submarine loses all meaning. Statements like, Sinev and from the pier will get - from the evil one.

Vooot ... But this is the essence ...

It turns out - the costs of construction and operation are huge, incommensurable with the costs of creating mine or mobile soil complexes ...

The whole essence of the marine part of the nuclear triad lies in its inconspicuous location near the enemy territory (objects) ...

But to get the enemy ... there are a lot of ways and means, but to carry out combat duty unseemly and present a sudden surprise, like a devil from a snuff box - this is their main task ...

[rubs]

And why be nearby with a range of missiles of ten thousand kilometers?

[Vadim237]

We have few submarines with ICBMs.

[imperialist]

We have enough submarines with ICBMs. But the fact that they stick out in the bases is another matter. There is practically no multipurpose component, the tasks of which include covering strategists in areas of BS bearing.

[Vadim237]

Looks like our Ministry of Defense saves on nuclear submarine patrols - one hell, they will launch missiles when an enemy missile attack is detected.

[cost75]

Everything is calm in Baghdad, the president intends to visit friendly USA

[Cat man null]

Quote: cost75

Everything is calm in Baghdad, the president intends to visit friendly USA

Why - take an interest .. with what composition of the delegation. Then, if you want, you can write all kinds of nonsense ..

[colonel manuch]

Five strategic cruisers in one place! We do not have enough bases, lack infrastructure? I just want to ask the question: "Where is the money Zin!", And meanwhile the theft of state funds by "effective managers" is flourishing and everyone knows about it, then "where is the landing?" They made some noise with the "sweet couple", but with the Vostochny cosmodrome, "but things are still there!" Not order, or again you want to feel on your own skin the morning of June 22, 41?

[lelikas]

Quote: polkovnik manuch

Five strategic cruisers in one place! We do not have enough bases, lack infrastructure? I just want to ask the question: "Where is the money Zin!", And meanwhile the theft of state funds by "effective managers" is flourishing and everyone knows about it, then "where is the landing?" They made some noise with the "sweet couple", but with the Vostochny cosmodrome, "but things are still there!" Not order, or again you want to feel on your own skin the morning of June 22, 41?

Aha - to each cruiser base how to build in Balaclava? Even with the union, it was hard to drag such a bunch of bases, and now even more so. Just in case, this is not just a pier near the shore ....
The Yankees collecting ships in the bases also remember Pearl Harbor - but they continue - are they dumb?
We cannot all drive out to sea - we have one ship from the fleet right now - which is not hidden and the photo is sobsno confirmed.
What a shock will befall the author if he learns that most of the "newest" T-90s are in storage, and their brothers in parts are crowded in hangars, and do not rush non-stop across the fields and immense weights.

[strannik1985]

No need to mix flies and cutlets, talking about KON SSBNs, because the boat being on combat duty ensures the stability of the MSNS. You don’t use the entire fleet in the first 20 minutes of the conflict, unlike SSBNs.
Of course it's hard. By 1982, the NSNF included 86 RPLs of nine projects armed with seven types of SLBMs (in the United States, 41 SSBNs, 5 different projects, armed with 4 types of SLBMs). In fact, the USSR NSNF was created three times: the first time from the end of the 50s to 1967, 37 RPLs with first-generation missiles (R-11FM, R-13, R-21) were built, then from 1967 to 1972, 34 RPLs with missiles of the second generation (R-21), since 1972 SSBNs have been supplied with SLBMs R-29. At the same time, the modernization of previously built ships for the new missile system was not carried out and the boats were simply "stored" in the fleet. Where can we get the money to provide the basing?

[Wadikcat]

I venture to comment amateurishly. Nevertheless, we see not a timetable for access to the SSBN, but a one-shot photo. Secondly, I will assume that the mentioned schedule most likely has a different look, based on the tension of the global political situation. Moreover, this situation is determined not by the tone of the news, but by the materials of the relevant mining services. In the end, in August, Navy Day is celebrated, a bunch of arms tests are carried out, exercises are provided, including international ones, and there are a million more reasons that led to the instantaneous finding on the basis of several ships under consideration. It seems to me that there is simply a certain speculation on the part of the author of the article.

[serverny]

"These are stupid ..." ©

[strannik1985]

Ahem ... do you understand the difference between SSBNs and an aircraft carrier?

[Sergey333]

A good target, I did not know that all aircraft carriers were in their one place.

[Russian Patriot]

I apologize, but it is possible to write abbreviations (KON, MSYAS, PLAK) with decryption.

[strannik1985]

SNF-Navy nuclear deterrence forces.
SSBN-nuclear submarine with ballistic missiles, in Russia there is the designation of the SSBN (RPSN) - missile submarine strategic cruiser (boat).
The operational voltage coefficient (Eng. Operational Tempo), abbreviated as KOH or the coefficient of operational use of forces is one of the most important parameters characterizing the operational efficiency of the weapons complex and showing the possibility of using the complex for combat use. As a rule, in relation to warships and submarines. It is calculated for the selected period as the ratio of the time that the ship (or several ships) was in the areas of combat mission to the total duration of the period, including the time spent at sea and the time spent at basing points [1]. For example, if KLB = 0,5 for a certain year is indicated for SSBNs, then this means that during this year 50% of the time the boat was at sea.

In practice, the Navy of the USSR and Russia, the operational voltage coefficient is dimensionless and varies from 0 to 1,0. In the US Navy, the analogue of KOH is English. Operational Tempo - expressed as a percentage, varies from 0 to 100%.

[Zomanus]

The photos are beautiful. It is clear that looking at these hills will get tired in the second year of service, but for the first time beauty. Well, what about the article ... I don’t think that tomorrow they’ll missiles at this base. Because this is usually preceded by a significant seething of shit, after which there are actions.

[Ivan Ivanych]

It is embarrassing that you can easily walk around and take a picture of a secret base with strategists, upload it to the network. Somehow it's not right.

[Megatron]

And what, the base is not covered by any means of air defense, in principle, that the author so boldly claims to destroy it with one single charge ??

[ava09]

Do you seriously think that "one charge" is aimed at a strategic object of such importance? Moreover, this is practically the entire composition of the nuclear forces of the Northern Fleet. And the small SSBN bases that remained after the assassination of the USSR receive less attention than Moscow?

[ava09]

Quote: Gamdlislyam

The article has the clear goal of launching "lice doubts" about the country's defense capability and the competence of the Navy leadership (and the commander-in-chief with the Defense Ministry leadership). Opusu put a minus.

If I understood you correctly, your personal experience does not allow you to doubt the impeccability of power in general? Did you know that from "die-hard patriots" there can be no less harm than from alarmists? I tell you this without trying to estimate the value of the article material.

[doctor_alex]

Gentlemen, I think that they have already written here, but all the comments are too lazy to read, and so pop the boat concentrating in one place. It's not that simple, a modern warship is not a cauldron for you, where you threw a stone on a rope there and stood in the parking lot. No, any ship, including an underwater one, must not only be tied with mooring lines to the pier, but also provided with a mass of various energy media, such as various electricity (!!!), steam for heating and equipment, water, air. And even in the Soviet Union, where the military was no richer example, there were big problems with all this, the parameters of the media supplied from the shore were not satisfactory, and in order to provide the boat, the crews often drove the ship's equipment spending its precious resource, and this despite the fact that the boats like Now they were in the databases, not one or two at a time, and the author here offers to lay eggs in different baskets. Where does the money come from for a boat to build its own berth with a thermal power station, compressor station and God knows what? In short, if we scatter all the boats separately when they are in the bases, then either we will have boats for 2 years before the average repair and will go to Sevsk once a year, or the country will tear at each halt to build a power plant.

[strannik1985]

For some reason, the USN can (and could, from the 60th KOH of the American SSBNs was 0,5-, 06). By 1956, the Office of Special Projects developed the technical characteristics for the strategic nuclear forces, SSBNs and SLBMs. In addition to creating 41 SSBNs, the project provided for the creation of an adequate infrastructure basing, MTO and maintenance, as well as a combat cycling system for the operation of SSBNs. From 1960 to 1965, 5 floating depots were added to the fleet, at the rate of 1 PB for each SSB, and 5 undergoing factory repair (modernization). the squadron introduced supply transports, floating warehouses, tugboats, boats.
By 1982, we had 86 RPLs of 9 different projects with missiles of 7 different types, where can we get the money, with more than twice as many numbers?
Maybe instead of one "Borey" (Yuri Dolgoruky-713 million dollars or 23 billion rubles), it was worth carrying out work similar to the development of USP half a century ago?