Continued procurement of IVECO Lynx armored vehicles would be a disaster for the Russian army

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Full-scale purchases of Italian IVECO LMV armored vehicles could have a catastrophic impact on the combat readiness of most ground forces and airborne forces. After all, it was planned to purchase three thousand of these machines. Moreover, when purchasing the LMV, the then military leadership rejected a large number of Russian military equipment, which successfully passed tests or, as they say, was "on the way." So in 2010, an almost ready tank of the new generation Object 195, also known as the T-95, was rejected. tanks on the subject of T-72B2 “Slingshot” and “Burlak”, a double-barreled version of the “Coalition” self-propelled artillery mount.

Continued procurement of IVECO Lynx armored vehicles would be a disaster for the Russian army

"Lynx" on the 2015 Army Forum in Kubinka. What for?

The BMD-4М, 2C25 Sprut, T-90A, BTR-90, BMP-3, and BMPT were also blacklisted. It was planned to stop the purchase of domestic armored vehicles "Tiger".

There were even statements that the army until the 2015 year will not buy anything domestic. It seemed that the then official of the Defense Ministry was not interested in how the Russian defense industry would survive and whether it would survive at all. But they launched an unusual activity on the "western direction." In addition to the IVECO LMV, the airborne began to "woo" long-obsolete IVECO VM 90. It was reported that "Lynx" will be equipped not only with special forces of the Airborne Forces, but also entire assault landing brigades, as well as reconnaissance units of the ground forces.






Machines were delivered to the Russian army that did not eliminate the deficiencies identified in Afghanistan

Began mass purchases of foreign sniper weapons. On the tests were taken wheel fighter tanks "Centauro" and BMP "Freccia". Allegedly, this technique was taken only for familiarization, but, nevertheless, information was leaking in the media that a purchase of a license for the production of Italian cars in domestic enterprises was being prepared.

True, skeptics joked that the same thing happened with “Lynx” with “Centauro”: they would give a resounding Russian name, and then everything would be limited to a screwdriver assembly of vehicle sets sent from abroad and screwing up the plates with these same Russian names. Nothing of his will not.






Chassis elements. Rust visible on some parts


Also, according to some data, works on modernization of the engine and transmission compartment of the T-72 tank began, along with the French, rumors about the Italian engine for the Armat tank. There were statements about a possible appeal to France with a request to supply self-propelled CAESAR self-propelled guns and to the Finns - about the desire to get 500 Patria armored personnel carriers. Plus, of course, the loudest and ingloriously ended cooperation project - UDC "Mistral".

All these clever maneuvers, I must say, very often met with the approval of those who sympathized with the reformers in the defense ministry. Say, "the domestic defense industry cannot create anything competitive," and the West is our friend, and there is nothing wrong with the fact that the equipment of a "friendly" NATO bloc will go massively to the troops.






Inside the car is very tight


The impression was created that the defense ministry did not at all assume that complications in relations with Europe and the United States could occur, that a crisis could occur in Ukraine or in another place where the interests of NATO and Russia would collide.

There are opinions that at that time they expected a sharp exacerbation of the situation in the former Soviet Central Asia, after the start of the withdrawal from Afghanistan of the forces of the Western coalition. A possible military conflict in this region was seen as a repetition of what happened there since 2001. So, in order to fight the Taliban, in Tajikistan, Kyrgyzstan, IVECO LMV, Centauro, CAESAR and other Western "toys" should have been massively needed.






Driver's seat

But it seems that our strategists have miscalculated, the situation in Central Asia is still relatively stable, the Taliban are mired in clashes with even more bloodthirsty terrorists. But the trouble came, as always, from where it was not expected. Relations with the West have escalated almost to the state of the Cold War. One could only imagine what the level of combat readiness of the units that had massively switched to Western equipment was, how many hundreds of foreign-made cars currently would be parks without spare parts. It’s good that the UVZ team managed to “break through” a budget upgraded version of the T-72, and Arzamas managed its own BTR-82.

We must pay tribute to the current leadership of the Ministry of Defense, which from the very beginning has managed to improve relations with the domestic defense industry. As a result, we now have sufficiently combat-ready troops, and not "forces for conducting police and peacekeeping operations in the Central Asian theater of operations." Although there is still much work to do: many gentlemen-reformers managed to tinker so much.
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  1. +28
    22 August 2015 05: 25
    During time, we realized ... what to do now in the current situation, well, purely hypothetically ... what the cost of exploiting the Lynx and the Tiger .... well, just as a comparison.
    If at present there are problems with spare parts for the Lynx? As a rule, if the machine is constantly in use, then a constant flow rate for spare parts and technical fluids is required ... is there any interruption?
    Yes, it is required to purchase Western equipment, but no more than for acquaintance. And maybe something to tear.
    But hoping that a potential adversary will take care of your defenses is a direct betrayal.
    1. +28
      22 August 2015 06: 29
      Transplant MO officers who made the purchasing decision to Lynx. And their families should be transplanted onto them, having selected all their personal vehicles.
      Let them pay for repairs themselves.
      1. +13
        22 August 2015 08: 47
        Quote: sibi
        Transplant MO officers who made the purchasing decision to Lynx. And their families should be transplanted onto them, having selected all their personal vehicles. Let them pay for the repairs themselves.

        Again, the question arose about the responsibility of decision makers, while there is a caste of untouchables, the army will be gathered by thread. One Shoigu is not enough for everything .......
      2. +2
        22 August 2015 19: 44
        transplanted to trot then in a place with lynxes on a barge and in the White Sea ...
      3. -1
        22 August 2015 20: 46
        Quote: sibi
        Transplant MO officers who made the purchasing decision to Lynx. And their families should be transplanted onto them, having selected all their personal vehicles.



        Yes, yes .., put him on a Lynx and blow it up in a mine, in a kilo-two, and then on the Tiger and do the same, but for some VO users, as well as the authors of such articles, look at the result. Of course, this Lynx is to blame for corruption, lobbyism and empty promises of the military-industrial complex ..

        Lynx is an excellent battle-tested machine, for the GRU and the Airborne Forces.
      4. +2
        22 August 2015 21: 27
        Transplant MO officers who made the purchasing decision to Lynx. And their families should be transplanted onto them, having selected all their personal vehicles.
        Well, this for ghouls will not even be a punishment, but exotic, but taking them to collect their children and sending them to fight on this technique would be very interesting)))
      5. 0
        22 August 2015 21: 33
        Where is the FSB looking? Everywhere theft and betrayal.
        1. +1
          22 August 2015 21: 53
          if the FSB was looking where it should be ... students at the Moscow State University are recruited into the igil what can we talk about. atomic boats burn every year. And how do these guys live.
          1. 0
            22 August 2015 22: 25
            Especially from France, it is very clearly visible, funny.
      6. 0
        23 August 2015 11: 47
        Quote: sibi
        Transplant MO officers who made the purchasing decision to Lynx. And their families should be transplanted onto them, having selected all their personal vehicles.
        Let them pay for repairs themselves.

        Everything is clear here, they got a bribe. And money must be worked out.
    2. 0
      22 August 2015 14: 59
      Quote: Strashila
      In time, we realized ...

      But they were still going to buy FÉLIN, FAMAS.
  2. +21
    22 August 2015 06: 31
    Who will we sing hosanna? Who set and for a long time held the position of a brilliant effective manager? Who covered and brought out of court?
    1. +3
      22 August 2015 08: 02
      Quote: KBR109
      Who will we sing hosanna? Who set and for a long time held the position of a brilliant effective manager? Who covered and brought out of court?


      if you start telling the truth and criticizing the real state of affairs, then you can go to the bathhouse forever, therefore, no matter how bad everything is, but the "people" are still for him ...
      1. 0
        22 August 2015 12: 18
        Quote: War and Peace
        "people" is still for him
        And your people for whom? Or are you strictly against it? stop
        1. +3
          22 August 2015 19: 07
          Quote: Stanislav
          Quote: War and Peace
          "people" is still for him
          And your people for whom? Or are you strictly against it? stop


          our Russian people do not live well in real work, few salesmen are required, but there are all kinds of managers, and if there is an offer for construction engineers, such as KUZNETSOV, then the designer gets 20 thousand. so not so young people go to such work, but he divorced oligarchs-billionaires-Jews and officials such as Sechin and Yakunin, who receive 5-7 mil.rub per day. so smart people are against such a policy of his ...
        2. 0
          22 August 2015 19: 07
          Quote: Stanislav
          Quote: War and Peace
          "people" is still for him
          And your people for whom? Or are you strictly against it? stop


          our Russian people do not live well in real work, few salesmen are required, but there are all kinds of managers, and if there is an offer for construction engineers, such as KUZNETSOV, then the designer gets 20 thousand. so not so young people go to such work, but he divorced oligarchs-billionaires-Jews and officials such as Sechin and Yakunin, who receive 5-7 mil.rub per day. so smart people are against such a policy of his ...
  3. +6
    22 August 2015 06: 38
    Quote: KBR109
    Who will we sing hosanna? Who set and for a long time held the position of a brilliant effective manager? Who covered and brought out of court?

    This must be asked from the Guarantor. He monitors and guarantees legality ..... well, or at least the appearance of legality.
  4. +4
    22 August 2015 06: 39
    Where are the names of the scoundrels?
    What is this nonsense? Do people work for another state and continue?
    Why then do such articles? Crime Prevented. Hooray! The criminal is released ???
    1. +4
      22 August 2015 06: 48
      Vasilieva goes for parole, what's the point of planting them and immediately letting them go?
  5. +6
    22 August 2015 07: 13
    Painfully and bitterly friends. We all see, understand and know. And together we pretend ... But corruption continues to corrode ... Who can’t know: the reason for Yakunin’s departure from Russian Railways (they didn’t even leave the board of directors) was his direct refusal to publish Medvedev’s income statement. And this is the head of the State Corporation. Garant complained - and here is the reaction.
  6. +5
    22 August 2015 07: 43
    Baryga Serdyukov and his cohort must be sent to Kalym.
  7. +8
    22 August 2015 07: 43
    Yes Serdyukov should be tried and sentenced to life for the collapse of the defense industry! Why only he was kept "Minister of Defense" for so long.
  8. +6
    22 August 2015 07: 56
    The main "pseudo-reformers" of our defense industry Serdyukov and K. have been identified. But the first got off with a slight fright, the accomplices were slightly strained. The consequences of Russian "military reforms" were superficially covered, the reason was not revealed at all! This means that there are no guarantees that the situation will not repeat itself ...
    1. +3
      22 August 2015 09: 32
      D because if you open everything, the country will fall apart.
      Well, it’s like a nuclear strike, it’s possible to strike, but how to live like then?
      So here, well, you will not take Serdyukov alone, then a "gnome" (DAM) is needed and a bunch of "outstanding" people. And to follow the path of "Bati" (IO Stalin) well, to put it mildly, not comme il faut.
      1. -2
        22 August 2015 12: 44
        Serdyukov set up ... so that the last of the remaining real officers who could say "I have the honor ..." and punish the thieves and sprayers would "withdraw" from the army. And then make an absolutely obedient army. No ambition or indemnity. Manual ...
      2. +2
        22 August 2015 22: 42
        Quote: otter
        if you open everything, the country will fall apart.

        If everything is revealed and eliminated, the country will not fall apart, but will become much better! In your opinion, is it better to leave everything as it is? And to be touched by the "imprisonment" of a thief in a 13-room apartment, and to admit the main person involved in nothing at all with attachment to a dusty and well-paid position for us?
        JV Stalin is not comme il faut to you? Yes, with him, the Stooltkin company would be quickly multiplied by zero and replaced by people who are sick of the cause! The same with regard to the LADIES of a bunch of "outstanding" people!
  9. 0
    22 August 2015 08: 49
    The era of Serdyukovism, fortunately, is over.
    1. +3
      22 August 2015 11: 57
      But the consequences of the Serdyukov-Medvedov era will continue to hiccup the Motherland for a long time, and that the worst thing is not only technically. According to the image of the country's leadership, this whole tragic comedy "Serdyukov and the Girls" has caused irreparable damage.
  10. +4
    22 August 2015 09: 05
    Iveco-Lynx itself is certainly a good car. 6 kg (if I'm not mistaken) can withstand, this is no joke. Unfortunately, Tigers with such a mine resistance (only large Typhoon-U and Typhoon-K) have not begun to be purchased in the Russian Federation. The whole problem was in the "screwdriver assembly" of these machines. Therefore, they did the right thing to terminate the contract.
  11. +4
    22 August 2015 10: 24
    Rust is visible on some details .. man, if you climb under a Mercedes 600y, you will also see rust in some parts after operation

    They did the right thing, that they accepted the Lynx, because if not it, then our designers still wrinkled the pussy, and figs we saw new modifications of the tiger and other similar machines.
  12. +1
    22 August 2015 10: 52
    All these clever maneuvers, I must say, very often met with the approval of those who sympathized with the reformers in the defense ministry. Say, "the domestic defense industry cannot create anything competitive," and the West is our friend, and there is nothing wrong with the fact that the equipment of a "friendly" NATO bloc will go massively to the troops.
    ..... for stupidity, very similar to treason. you have to pay and now ....
    there is still much work to be done: so many gentlemen-reformers managed to do so much.

    And first of all, for the country's security, it is necessary to CLEAN the MO and other departments from all these friends of the West - "gentlemen of the reformers" so that their spirit is no longer there!
  13. 0
    22 August 2015 11: 04
    For areas of the far north, equipment from Turkey, Brazil and South Africa is especially good. This is what you need to purchase. laughing
  14. +6
    22 August 2015 11: 38
    There has already been a period in the history of Russia when weapons of foreign development and production were adopted and purchased. So, the period before the First World War, Minister of War Sukhomlinov, artillery systems are in service with the Russian artillery mainly developed and even produced by the French concern Schneider. And not only guns, Russia even had to build the cruisers Admiral Nevelskoy and Muravyov-Amursky in Germany, which at the beginning of the war requisitioned them, including them in its fleet as Elbing and Pillau. I am not even talking about the massive deliveries from abroad of cars, airplanes and components for them. But this was the tragedy of a country with undeveloped industrial production, but with developed embezzlement and corruption. History has a habit of repeating itself in a farce. Quite recent history - instead of Sukhomlinov - Minister Taburetkin, instead of cruisers - the notorious French "Mistrals", the acquisition of a license and commercial vehicles - completely unnecessary and unsuitable for the Russian army "armored vehicles" "Lynx" (aka Iveco LMV), good though the Italian B-1 "Centauro" did not have time to buy (where would they then go?). And now the situation has not changed too much - just look at how many components of imported origin are in promising (that is, planned for adoption) Russian army equipment, for example: promising heavy (6x6) 16-ton truck "Ural-63704" - aka "Tornado-U": axles - Hungarian Raba, YMZ-652 engine - licensed French (again?!?) Renault dCi 11, clutch - Sachs, gearbox and transfer case - ZF. And this is not a complete list and only one, I emphasize - promising! - car. Interestingly, the Russian military is seriously counting on the fact that if something happens (God forbid!) NATO countries or their allies will still regularly supply components for military equipment to Russia. And talks about import substitution are still mostly talks. And this is not at all happy.
    I have the honor.
    1. +2
      22 August 2015 12: 30
      100 (STO) years there, 100 (STO) years here ... The analogy suggests itself. Directly "vicious circle" of some kind ...
  15. +4
    22 August 2015 12: 57
    An article, at least amateurish, at most delusional.
    Offhand only.
    1) rust under the bottom of the car? It’s ridiculous. Look at the bottom of your own first.
    2) "Chentauro" is a serious design and technological achievement. Placing a 105mm and 120mm high ballistic cannon, albeit with a reduced recoil momentum, on a wheeled chassis is a major success. We have Boomerang - the weakest link among the others (Armata, Kurganets-25) - there is no engine, wheels, etc. And the version of the "wheeled tank" based on it (integration of the corresponding fire module), generally caused slight confusion among the designers.
    3) the story with the Mistrals, which has set the teeth on edge ... Given the specifics of modern military operations, such "expeditionary command" ships would be useful. But it turned out the way it happened. Now the urya-patriots are singing the fable "The Fox and the Grapes". And what is offered in return is ... sadness, in general. Domestic basic technologies for landing troops on the coast (on the coast from the ramp) are 50 years old). Over-the-horizon assault landing, its integrated support and control, etc. - until then, as far as China ...
    4) if you pay more attention to the study of military history, in particular, the history of the development of military equipment, you can see how many borrowings were in various formats.
    Conclusion: the article is amateurish and urya-patriotic.
    1. -1
      22 August 2015 13: 41
      - Do we need wheeled tanks AT ALL ?? In Europe, one situation, we have somewhat different.
      Will he be in demand ??
      In South Africa, by the way, too, the road-soil situation is not like in Russia.
      Yes, maybe Centauro and achievement, but why should we?

      - Mistral project is VERY controversial.
      He did not provide any special breakthroughs. In general, this is not exactly a warship.

      Over-horizon assault landing, its integrated support and control, etc. -


      beautiful, the main thing sounds scientific ..
  16. 0
    22 August 2015 13: 19
    It’s only good that they didn’t have time to fully invest in foreign arms and military equipment, and the purchase of small parties is only for the benefit. In the West, they don’t do weapons either and are able to do something for themselves. Not a sin and learn. Peter 1 at the time did not hesitate.
  17. 0
    22 August 2015 13: 56
    Well, I think you can give the remaining Lynx to the Military Police or the FSO. But ideally, of course, return it back and request money.
  18. 0
    22 August 2015 13: 58
    The point is: no country in the world can do EVERYTHING - including in the defense sphere.
    Alas, this is so - to do everything from a cartridge to a strategic bomber was very expensive even for the USSR, and ...
    The Russian Federation is not the USSR.
    It is not always possible to contain several competing manufacturers of the same type of weapons inside the Russian Federation.
    The only and unique monopolist will delight you with prices and quality.

    In theory, cooperation in this delicate area with foreign countries is necessary ..
    HOWEVER - even Ukraine with Motorsich is worth something .. The result is fabulous - they were left without engines ..
    Ukraine remained without defense ..

    To be honest, the situation is complicated. What is there to advise - I do not even know.
    Cooperated in something with the French (not only Mistral) and on you ..

    It is necessary to buy .. but in small series ... to study, to use - it is impossible to close in yourself.
    I remember the report from the still early Aviamaks - foreign manufacturers do not really go as the Russian Armed Forces do not buy their equipment in principle ..

    Well, imagine - we bought - and then the sanctions ..

    Iran at one time bought the F-14 but during the war with Iraq - sat without spare parts ...

    We need to talk - an interesting technique - a large order - localization of production - something like this ...

    In general - there is something to think about.
  19. wow
    +1
    22 August 2015 14: 11
    B ... oh, it’s a pity that I’m not 37 in the yard. And even Taburetkin and Co. did not even remember ....
  20. +1
    22 August 2015 14: 25
    The BMD-4М, 2C25 Sprut, T-90A, BTR-90, BMP-3, and BMPT were also blacklisted. It was planned to stop the purchase of domestic armored vehicles "Tiger".

    - Nothing so failed! Like Iveco LMV is to blame? Well now then satiated army fleet of light vehicles of domestic production (Wolf 4x4 / 6x6 also became objectionable)? There are some c.n. they lit up, they are already calling for the transfer to other power structures, go, and never served cars (rotted in open-air storage depots).
    The great war was fought with the Willisammies, Studebakers and Dodge, and did not disdain what was going on now in not strong minds?
    1. 0
      23 August 2015 15: 37
      To make it clear, if Finland bought 139 used Leopard-2A4 tanks, then 27 were put into storage precisely to replenish spare parts, or immediately dismantled.
  21. +1
    22 August 2015 15: 15
    Quote: Aspeed
    I, in the place of our Minister of Defense, didn’t send them away, it’s time to start a criminal case against the bastards.

    I fully agree with the assessment of the domestic defense industry. In many ways, they really got fucked up.
    But I categorically object to the proposal "send farther away". We need to think responsibly: how will we equip OWN armed forces in the context of conflicts with foreign suppliers? Are the current sanctions a lesson?
    And one more thing: how are we going to prepare design, technological and working personnel for OWN industry?
    But with regard to the criminal case, I absolutely support it. It’s not just firing, but closing! For others to be discouraged.
    Only so win!
  22. +1
    22 August 2015 15: 46
    So it turns out that the UAZ didn’t come up with anything better. Fishermen-hunters even who prefer UAZ with money to get into the jungle. A hunter is akin to a warrior!
    1. 0
      23 August 2015 07: 24
      Quote: chelovektapok
      better UAZ-ika did not come up with anything
      And the GAZ-69? As far as I remember, I did the UAZ-469 on the cross.
  23. 0
    22 August 2015 17: 21
    > And the question of the responsibility of the factories did not arise?

    Recently I was at a military factory (aviation). The equipment is still those of Soviet times. I looked at all this and the thought came - how our military equipment can still compete on equal terms with Western companies with such archaic equipment. At the same time, prices cannot be lower than imported samples. Rather, it will be lower when modern production is built. They are building another site there, they say that there will be a very modern production. Well, and to steal, you need to learn from the Americans. Their advertised F-35 aircraft, which was supposed to cost around $ 30 million, jumped in price to $ 100 million, no one was shot).
    1. +1
      22 August 2015 18: 43
      Dear ... do not look at the production date of the machines.
      If he holds accuracy .. the point is to change him.
      The paradox is that the machine during normal operation can only acquire positive changes ... especially the bed, it eventually loses internal stress and only gets better from this.
      The Swiss for the production of high-precision machine tools send the frame to the mine for several years to relieve internal stresses.
      He worked at a multi-bearing plant ... there were still captured German machine tools manufactured in the 30s of the last century ... and there is no replacement for them, no one is simply releasing them at the present time.
      1. 0
        22 August 2015 19: 52
        Dear Strashila (1) The trouble is not that the machines are old. The trouble is that young people are reluctant to work on these machines. And, since there are few workers, how can we fulfill our plans? Only if one worker will service several machines or one machine will perform many operations. I saw such a blank is put into it, a finished part comes out that does not require other operations. It does all turning, milling, drilling, boring operations, even metalwork is not necessary.
  24. +3
    22 August 2015 18: 10
    Quote: Olezhek
    The point is: no country in the world can do EVERYTHING - including in the defense sphere.
    Alas, this is so - to do everything from a cartridge to a strategic bomber was very expensive even for the USSR, and ...
    The Russian Federation is not the USSR.

    The paradox of history ... in imperial Russia everything was done on a turn-key basis ... if there was a grand piano on the ship for the officers' cabins of the company ... then it was made, not bought on the side.
    On the one hand, it is difficult, on the other hand, historical experience says that we must be independent of supplies from outside. There may not be any allies at all ... so there will be no one to wait for help from.
    As one expert noted that the USSR won the war due to one factor ... it had its own production of ignition systems for technology, albeit not super ... but it was its own and adapted to our realities.
    The military-industrial complex is the same business, but in contrast to other industries, with good governance, it not only carries security to the country, the development of science and industry, the flow of currency, but not the most recent ones, it is the influence in the world.
    And yet ... not enough to buy, we must be able to use it sensibly.
    In early 1941, Germany sold the USSR the latest models of aircraft ... sold without hesitation to show the new in the expectation that the USSR would not be able to realize this soon, but they were surprised to learn after the outbreak of war that we were able to not only learn and adopt a lot but also bring to life in a matter of months and put all this in the troops.
    1. +1
      23 August 2015 13: 23
      There is such an interesting thing - called serialization ..
      If the product is mastered and constantly manufactured - its cost can be very low.
      Attempting to make several pieces is a long, expensive, unpredictable result.

      Moreover, prices may vary by an order.

      The problem is just that. Trying to do everything in one country is an economic dead end.

      But then - the problem Mistral ...
      They were done very well and very quickly ..
      And then did not give to the customer ...

      In general, the free market is not a panacea either ...
  25. -1
    22 August 2015 19: 19
    Shoigu came and immediately from the air everything appeared!
  26. +1
    22 August 2015 20: 21
    There were even statements that the army would not buy anything domestic until 2015. The impression was that the then-Defense Ministry official was not interested in how the Russian defense industry would survive and whether it would survive at all. But they launched an unusual activity in the "western direction".
    well, like this. Mistral also grew from there. ours must be stamped, ours!
  27. 0
    22 August 2015 23: 56
    Quote: sibi
    Transfer to Lynx MO officials, ...

    Do not just transplant, but force them to redeem.
  28. 0
    23 August 2015 07: 43
    . The so-called purchase of equipment for the Russian army from the West is nothing more than an operation to obtain technical, technological, production, and other documentation for all the samples of equipment listed in the articles and not only (Mistral). Serdyukov, if he had not stolen and thieves around himself, did not produce, the hero of Russia would have been given for this. And domestic developments, which have been pouring from the cornucopia for the last 3 years, did not come from dampness. Their development did not stop for a minute. The intensity of development within the operation was reduced. But this was a state interest.

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