Modernization tank LEOPARD 2: the game and the players

117

Danish army LEOPARD 2A5DK tank during an operation in Afghanistan in February 2014. Denmark acquired 57 tanks LEOPARD 2A4 from stocks of the German army in 1997, later KMW upgraded 51 vehicles to the 2A5DK configuration. The Danish army currently has 36 2A5DK tanks

The Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) LEOPARD 2 tank is one of the brightest NATO tanks that came into service before the end of the Cold War. LEOPARD 2, the main battle tank (MBT), originally designed to respond to the challenges of the European operational space, in particular what was then called the internal German border, is currently operating in a variety of conditions. Those who once created and designed the car, today can certainly be very surprised that the tank is deployed in Afghanistan, Southeast Asia and Latin America.

When LEOPARD 1979 was created as a perfect tank of the Cold War era in 2, no one could have imagined that the Cold War would end, but ... it ended. And then the question arises whether Germany and the Netherlands needed all the tanks that they had, and if they didn’t need them, then what was their fate? It is logical to ask another question, if at the end of the Cold War, the need for military assets was significantly reduced, how did this affect the companies involved in the production of the LEOPARD 2 tank?

After the Cold War, LEOPARD 2 was transformed, new users acquired a tank through both direct deliveries and the purchase of surplus vehicles. As for upgrades, these were “official” upgrades and improvement programs run by users and suppliers of original systems. Also, the “new” LEOPARD 2 users had on their accounts a rather large number of their own modernization programs, as they sought to use all the capabilities of the tank in order to meet their operational needs.

First of all, it is necessary to begin the analysis of the development of the LEOPARD 2 tank modernization programs from the activities of the community of the first LEOPARD 2 operators. In the 80s, Germany began to think about its future tank needs. At that time, several possible paths were considered. First, the creation of a new car, but after careful analysis, this idea was subsequently discarded. Secondly, an option was explored to develop advanced systems that could be integrated into LEOPARD 2 as part of the modernization program. This way of further development of the tank was officially approved in 1989. Later, an experienced machine for testing components under the designation KVT, whose protection was significantly improved, appeared. This was followed by a testing machine for instruments and devices under the designation IVT, which was used as a stand for technologies such as an integrated command-information system. In 1990, the TVM1 program began, in which two cars were tested in two different configurations; At the beginning of 90, the TVM2 program was launched, in which a variant with more specific upgrades was tested. These works formed the basis of the solution that determined the modernization path, and as a result, the three operators of the LEOPARD 2 tank in October 1991 decided to choose KWS II (with significantly improved protection and other improvements), which later became known as the LEOPARD 2A5 variant.

The modernization of the LEOPARD 2 tank continued and the next step was the LEOPARD 2A6 variant, which received the 120-mm Rheinmetall L / 55 cannon, improvements in protection and other improvements. Germany decided to convert LEOPARD 225A2 5A2 tanks into 6 tanks, deliveries began in March 2001. The Dutch army modified the LEOPARD 180A2 5 tanks to the 2A6 standard, the first deliveries began in February of the 2003 year. Switzerland has also developed several modernization programs for its Pz87 tanks.

Both LEOPARD 2A5 and LEOPARD 2A6 models were successfully sold abroad. Sweden decided to adopt the LEOPARD 2, initially renting LEOPARD 160A2 tanks from Germany for 4 and giving them the designation Strv 121 (these tanks have now been returned to Germany). The Strv 122 became a tank, chosen mainly to fulfill Swedish requirements; it is based on the LEOPARD 2A5 model, which is equipped with Sweden-specific equipment. In total, the 122 tank was purchased, the 29 was manufactured in Germany and the rest in Sweden. Sweden has upgraded the Strv 10 122 tanks to the Strv 122B configuration by improving mine protection (Germany similarly redesigned the LEOPARD 70A2 tanks, which were designated 6A2M).

In March 2002, Greece, based on its needs, chose the configuration LEOPARD 2HEL; it is a variant of 2A6 with additional protection.

A total of 170 machines were ordered, of which 140 tanks were manufactured in Greece; The first deliveries took place in March 2006. In addition, Greece bought the LEOPARD 183A2 4 tank from the stocks of the German army in accordance with the contract signed in August 2005. Spain also chose LEOPARD 2A6, signing a contract in 1998 for the purchase of 219 tanks. The tanks were designated LEOPARD 2E, the first 30 vehicles were manufactured in Germany, their deliveries began in the 2003 year, the remaining vehicles were manufactured in Spain by General Dynamics European Land Systems (GDELS). Spain also bought LEOPARD 108A2 tanks from the surplus of the German army in order to fill the empty niche before entering LEOPARD 4E; These machines are designated LEOPARD 2A2E.

Germany decided to officially order LEOPARD 2 in September of the 1977 of the year, intending to buy 1800 tanks. The manufacture of tanks of the first batch was divided between the KMW companies (at that time Krauss-Maffei acted as the main contractor, later Wegmann joined its structure, after which the modern company KMW was formed) and MaK (later became part of Rheinmetall). After four batches, KMW manufactured 787 tanks, and MaK 643 tanks. In December 1985, the production of the most advanced version of the LEOPARD 2A4 began. From 1979 to 1992, several serial batches were made. The Bundeswehr bought a total of LEOPARD 2125 2 tanks, all tanks were upgraded to LEOPARD 2A4 standard. From the very beginning of its appearance, the Leopard 2 was constantly upgraded to the latest standards. So, to this quantity we must add tanks made for export. The Netherlands became the first foreign customer for the LEOPARD 2 tank, signing a contract in March 1979 of the year and accepting the first shipments in the 1982 year. Total 445 tanks were purchased. Switzerland ordered LEOPARD 2 in August 1983, after which it received German 35 tanks in 1987; there he received the designation Panzer 87 (Pz87). The local production of the Pz87 tank began in December of the 1987 of the year and continued until the 1993 of the year; for the Swiss army, the 345 of the Pz87 tanks were manufactured. Based on these figures, we can talk about the manufacture of a total of X-NUMX tanks LEOPARD 2950 for three operators in the period from 2 to 1979 year; moreover, only 1993 machines were not made in Germany.

Current state of affairs

Changes in the European concept of security after the end of the Cold War made it possible to receive “peace dividends”, as defense spending declined and most of the military assets became redundant. This particularly affected the tanks. The Netherlands originally bought LEOPARD 445 2 tanks, but began selling them at the end of the 90s. In 1997, Austria ordered the LEOPARD 115A2NL former Dutch tanks 4 (they are now LEOPARD 2A4ОE), the first vehicles delivered in the 1998 year (approximately 56 remain in service). Norway received the LEOPARD 52A2NL (4A2NO) Dutch 4 tank and is currently looking at upgrading it (see below). In the Netherlands, Portugal bought LEOPARD 37A2NL (6A2PO) 6 machines. Canada bought LEOPARD 100A2NL 4 tanks in the 2007 year; We will discuss this deal later, as it had a significant impact on the subsequent development of the LEOPARD 2 tank.

In April 2011, the Netherlands Ministry of Defense announced that the LEOPARD 2 tank would be decommissioned, and the remaining vehicles would be stored, where they could be sold. In January, 2014 announced that Finland would buy LEOPARD 100A2 tanks (Leopard 6A2FI) 6 tanks, spare parts and ammunition for them under a contract worth 200 million euros from the Netherlands, 2015 to 2019 a year from the Netherlands. But due to the well-known events taking place in Europe, the Dutch army apparently intends to return to operation the remaining LEOPARD 2A6NL tanks, from which a new tank battalion consisting of approximately 17 tanks will probably be formed.

Switzerland bought 380 tanks Pz87 from 1987 to 1993 a year, but by the end of 90's, it became obvious that the Swiss would reduce their armed forces and, therefore, reduce the fleet of Pz87 tanks. It was decided to leave the 134 tank Pz87, and the remaining put in storage, sell or convert for other tasks. In 2007, the Swiss army decided to convert 12 tanks into an engineering vehicle AEV3 KODIAK; Rheinmetall and RUAG Defense took part in the project, which decided to re-make cars in Switzerland. Later in the year 2010, Switzerland sold Xhexme Pz42 machines from Rheinmetall for conversion into specialized versions, while Canada bought February 87 from Switzerland 2011 Pz12 tanks for conversion into specialized versions. In accordance with the Swiss armaments 87 armament program in Switzerland, a total of 2014 Pz96 tanks must be removed from service.

As for the 134 Pz87 tanks left in service with the Swiss army, they were upgraded by RUAG to the Pz87WE configuration. According to the modernization program Werterhaltungs (WE), from the very beginning, it was supposed to focus on increasing the level of mine protection of the hull, the tower also received additional protection for the front, sides and roof due to the installation of armor modules. New electric turret drives were installed, and the commander's periscope was replaced by a PERI-R17A2 periscope with an optimized thermal imaging channel from Airbus Defense & Space. An important addition was the Vehicle Integrated Information Navigation C2 System (VIIINACS). A remotely controlled weapon module from Autarkes Waffensystem (AWS) was also installed with a 12,7 mm M2 machine gun. During the modernization, a full range of measures was taken to reduce the signs of visibility. For other LEOPARD 2 customers, RUAG Defense offers a complete upgrade of the Pz87WE. However, the Swiss army, mainly due to financial difficulties, received only a stripped-down version of the WE modernization.

Like the Netherlands and Switzerland, Germany also significantly reduced the fleet of LEOPARD 2 tanks, transferring a large number of vehicles to surplus, and thus creating the current international market for the modernization of LEOPARD 2 tanks. Germany also continues to upgrade its fleet of tanks LEOPARD 2, which gives another direction of modernization.

In 2007, Chile acquired LEOPARD 140A2 4 tanks, 115 of them under the designation LEOPARD 2A4CHL were left in service with minimal modifications, while 25 tanks were purchased for spare parts. Denmark bought LEOPARD 57A2 4 tanks from Germany in 1997, of which 51 was later modified by KMW to LEOPARD 2A5DK configuration (six tanks were used as spare parts). Before being deployed in Afghanistan in 2007, some tanks in 2006-2007 underwent another modernization, and the level of protection of these tanks was increased, for example, by installing lattice screens. Today, Denmark is armed with 36 tanks LEOPARD 2A5DK.

In 2003, Finland bought LEOPARD 124A2 tank 4 from Germany; 12 was converted into support machines, 12 was disassembled for parts and 100 left in operation under the designation 2A4FI. Later in 2009, 15 2A4 tanks were also purchased from Germany for spare parts. At some point, LEOPARD 2A4FI could be upgraded, but this possibility was unlikely when Finland bought 100 LEOPARD 2A6NL tanks from the Netherlands in 2014.

Modernization of Turkish MBT


Winter running tests LEOPARD 2NG

Aselsan is the leading defense modernization company in Turkey and has previously played an important role in the main tank modernization programs (171 LEOPARD 1A1 / A4 and 170 M60A1) and armored personnel carriers (supply of uncooled thermal imagers for ACV 300X and BTR for BTR, and for the BTR, in the case of APV 60 and Armored personnel carriers (supplying uncooled thermal imagers for ACV 155 and BTV ACR 2009 and Armored personnel carriers) Aselsan has also developed a T-2 FIRTINA Turkish self-propelled howitzer fire control system. In accordance with the contract issued in 4, Aselsan received a task from the Office of the Defense Industry to install a new Tank Fire Control System (TFCS) tank fire control system, designated EAGLEEYE III and originally chosen for the third-generation Turkish tank ALTAY MBT, on MBT LEOPARD 2A4 Turkish Army. In addition to the modern TFCS, the LEOPARD 12,7A2 tanks also had a remote-controlled SARP armament module with an 4-mm machine gun and additional booking modules. The LEOPARD 2011A2 MBT prototype was planned to be used as a “debugging stand” as part of the ALTAY MBT program of the Turkish Armed Forces. Since November 4, after the completion of the installation, the prototype tank LEOPARD 2A2013 (received the designation LEOPARD 2013NG for sale for export) underwent comprehensive sea trials and firing trials, which ended in 2. In March, 4, Aselsan and RUAG signed an agreement to install the TFCS system, which successfully showed itself on the 2АXNUMX tank during firing tests, on the LEOPARD XNUMX MLU prototype.

In the 2006-2009 years, the Turkish army bought a total of 298 tanks LEOPARD 2A4 from the German army, the official contract for the purchase of another 41 + 15 (for spare parts) tanks LEOPARD 2A4 was signed in April 2010 of the year. Today, the balance of the Turkish Armed Forces includes 339 tanks LEOPARD 2A4 (including a prototype LEOPARD 2NG). Aselsan also upgraded the LMS on some LEOPARD 2A4 Turkish machines. The upgraded tank LEOPARD 2A4 took part in the Atis Serbet training (fire at will), conducted in October 2014, at the Polatli proving ground.

Modernization tank LEOPARD 2: the game and the players

The AEV-3 KODIAK Multifunction Engineering Machine allows engineering units to successfully perform a variety of tasks. The concept of the machine is based on the modernization of the extra chassis OBT LEOPARD 2


LEOPARD 2, received the baptism of fire in Afghanistan, is in service with many countries

Poland bought its first LEOPARD 2A4 tanks in the 2002 year, it delivered the 124 tank in the LEOPARD 2A4PL version. Later in November, 2013, Poland bought another batch directly from the warehouses of the German army; these are LEOPARD 14A2 4 tanks and LEOPARD 105A2 tanks 5, which are to be delivered in the 2015 year. Prior to this, in October 2013, the Polish Ministry of Defense issued a request for proposals regarding the LEOPARD 2PL modernization program. In December, 2013 received three replies to this offer: from WZM and Rheinmetall, from Bumar and from the PCO tandem with Aselsan. Since the LEOPARD 2PL modernization process has stopped and this is most likely due to the fact that since the process of reorganization and consolidation of the Polish defense industry is in progress, this modernization will be one of many programs launched to support local industry.

One of the contracts relating to the tank LEOPARD 2 was issued in September 2014 to ZM Mesko (part of Polish Defense Holding). She received a contract for the production of 14000 120-mm high-explosive fragmentation projectiles with supplies up to 2017 year. In November, 2014 of the Year was followed by another contract for the production of 13000 armor-piercing sub-caliber tracer shells, which must also be delivered before the 2017 of the year.

In a document entitled “Future purchases of the Norwegian aircraft in 2014-2022,” released in 2014, the Norwegian Ministry of Defense determined the number of programs associated with the modernization of the LEOPARD 2 tank. The 5045 project provides for the installation of an assault bridge on the LEOPARD 2 chassis in order to replace existing bridges based on the LEOPARD 1 chassis. In total, the LEOPARD 5 AVLB bridge laying machines need 8-2, the program, which should be completed in the 2020 year, will cost from 391 to 652 million dollars. The 5049 project provides for the replacement of engineering vehicles with the chassis of the LEOPARD 1 tank with engineering vehicles based on the LEOPARD 2 chassis. Five to eight LEOPARD 2 AEV engineering vehicles are also required; this program, worth 391-652 million dollars, will be completed by 2020 year.

The largest program associated with the tank LEOPARD 2, is the project 5050 - upgrading the actual tanks LEOPARD 2. In accordance with it, it is necessary to upgrade the LEOPARD 46A2NO 4 tanks to a new configuration, including enhanced protection, new thermal sights and air conditioning. The contract must be issued by 2016, and the program must end in 2021. The upgrade program will cost from 1304 to 2608 million dollars. The procurement document states that the number of tanks being upgraded can be reduced and will be in this case less than 46 units.

The last country on our list, which led several programs to upgrade the tank Leopard 2, is Canada. Without a doubt, the country's unique activity in this area influenced the latest “official” modernization of the LEOPARD 2 for the Canadian army, which was designated LEOPARD 2A7. Canada operated LEOPARD C2 (a variant of the LEOPARD 1 tank) for many years and ultimately had to remove it from service and replace it with a wheeled artillery mount. But then Afghanistan began and it became clear that the tank plays a vital role even in conditions of asymmetrical combat operations.

This prompted Canada to launch the Tank Replacement Project, for which the LEOPARD 2007 tank was selected as the optimal solution in 2. In accordance with the 1 Stage of this project, the Canadian Army received leased 20 tanks leopard 2A6M from the German army. These tanks were prepared for combat by KMW and arrived in Afghanistan in August 2007. In addition, in order to support tanks, Canada acquired two armored recovery vehicles (BREM) BUFFEL ARV.

The 2 phase of the Tank Replacement Project began after signing in December of 2007 a contract with the Netherlands for the purchase of 80 LEOPARD 2A4NL and 20 tanks LEOPARD 2A6NL. 20 tanks 2A6NL had to be upgraded to the German standard 2A6M, and then sent to the German army in exchange for 20 tanks 2A6M, previously supplied to Canada for operation in Afghanistan. These former German tanks received the designation 2A6M CAN after additional upgrades based on the experience gained during the fighting. Later in December, the 2014, tanks in the 2A6NL version, "surfaced" as an option LEOPARD 2A7.

As a result, Canadians now have their first-class 20 LEOPARD 2A6 CAN tanks and plus 80 LEOPARD 2A4NL tanks. In fact, these tanks fall into two programs: the previously mentioned Project for the replacement of tanks and the Project to increase the mobility of the troops, providing for the receipt of such specialized vehicles as BREMs and engineering. As previously noted, Canada acquired 2011 12 Pz87 tanks from Switzerland for conversion to specialized vehicles.

Canada entered into a contract with KMW for 20 LEOPARD 2A4NL tanks, which were to be upgraded to 2A4M CAN configuration. It primarily provides for a significant increase in the level of defense of the tower and the hull with a special focus on protection from mines and IEDs. The L / 44 gun was abandoned, but the tower electric drives were replaced and the Canadian communications system was improved. The finalization of the first five cars was completed at the KMW plant in November 2010 of the year and redeployed to Afghanistan in January 2011. Later in July, the 2012 of the 12 LEOPARD 2A4M CAN tanks were delivered directly to Canada.

While KMW was completing its work on 2A4M CAN, in October 2010, the company Rheinmetall Canada received a separate contract for the modernization and overhaul of 42 tanks LEOPARD 2A4. In this regard, to maintain its fleet of tanks, Canada also bought LEOPARD 15A2 4 machines from Germany for spare parts. In November, a contract was issued to Rheinmetall 2011, which included alteration of eight LEOPARD 2A4 tanks into the BREM BUFFEL ARV3 option with another option on the 4 machine. In July, 2012, the company Flensburger Fahrzeugbau Gesellschaft (FFG) received a contract from Canada worth 81,6 million euros for remaking LEOPARD 13A2 tanks into an engineering machine WISENT 4 AEV with an option for five more cars. As already noted, Canada had to replace the 2 20 LEOPARD 20A2M tanks leased from Germany for operation in Afghanistan with the 6 Dutch LEOPARD 20A2 tanks, which in turn were converted to the German configuration by KMW. However, this was just the beginning of much more significant modernization work that allowed the next generation of LEOPARD 6A2 to be created. In addition to LEOPARD 7A2M, KMW spent a lot of effort developing follow-up options, such as the LEOPARD 6 Peace Support Operations (PSO) option for peacekeeping operations, which was designed to meet the growing need for asymmetric conflicts. KMW has a close relationship with the LEOPARD 2 tank operator community, and has received constant feedback and comments from the Danish and Canadian forces in Afghanistan, armed with LEOPARD 2 tanks. In addition, KMW regularly introduced new technologies as it sought to find new customers for the LEOPARD 2 tank. All this formed the basis of the new LEOPARD 2A2 production tanks, which quite possibly can receive large contracts in the Middle East.


Canada decided to increase its engineering capabilities in the framework of the project to increase the mobility of the troops, and therefore bought the FNF X XUMUM 13 machines with the first deliveries in the 2 year. When signing the contract at 2015, Canada also placed options on five more WISENT 2012 machines.


German tank LEOPARD 2A7 during the transfer of the German army in December 2014 year

In December, the KMW company transferred the first tank LEOPARD 2014A2 to the German army in December, at the same time it was decided to upgrade all existing German tanks LEOPARD 7A2 to the standard 6A2. First, the new version of the protection levels were reduced to the standard 7A2M and then even increased, there is also the possibility of additional reservations. The information management system IFIS was installed, the internal communication was improved, a new possibility of exchanging data and voice messages with supporting tank infantry was added. An Airbus DS PERI-R6A17 commander's sight with an ATTICA thermal imager was installed, and driver and gunner observation systems were also improved. In addition, installed air conditioning and auxiliary power unit. The new version of the tank can also shoot programmable ammunition Rheinmetall DM3 HE and armor-piercing sub-caliber DM11.


Asian Leopard

In December, the Singapore Ministry of Defense announced that 2006 would buy 66 modernized LEOPARD 2A4 tanks along with LEOPARD 30A2 tanks directly from the warehouses of the German army. The tanks were to be upgraded at KMW, which, together with the local Singapore Technologies Kinetics, was to supply vehicles to the Singapore Army and carry out their maintenance. The training of crews of LEOPARD 4 tanks of the Singapore army was to be provided by the German army.

The Singapore Army sought to get modern tanks, learn how to operate and maintain them, and then build up their forces to meet the operational needs of Singapore. In this regard, the ways of modernization of the LEOPARD 2A4 Singapore fleet and the ways of acquiring specialized vehicles to support LEOPARD 2 tanks were identified. As for the specialized machines, the Singaporean army bought the BREM BUFFEL ARV, the LEOPARD 2 AVLB bridge laying machine and reportedly ordered the KODIAK AEV engineering vehicle.

By 2010, the LEOPARD 2A4 was upgraded to the new LEOPARD 2SG standard, the most notable change was the new AMAP reservation kit from IBD Deisenroth, which significantly increased protection. Other improvements include the installation of a Singapore standard communications system and a battle management system kit. However, some tanks do not have a permanently installed set of additional reservations, some of these tanks participated in the annual Panzer Strike exercises in Germany and Wallaby in Australia. As usual, Singapore is not very eager to reveal the details of the LEOPARD 2SG upgrade. It is precisely known that the Singaporean army will continue the modernization of these machines and they will remain in service for many more years.

For a long time, Indonesia was striving to modernize its armored forces and, ultimately, decided to buy LEOPARD 100 2 tanks from the surplus of the Dutch army. Then things got a little complicated, as the Netherlands reluctantly spoke about supplies, and Indonesia was also reluctant to respond to the purchase. Finally, in November 2013, the company officially announced that it had entered into a contract with Indonesia worth 213 million euros on "103 comprehensively renovated and modernized LEOPARD MBT; The order includes 42 upgraded infantry fighting vehicles MARDER 1A3 and 11 of various evacuation and engineering vehicles plus related documentation, training equipment and additional logistic support. In addition, the order includes initial deliveries of practical and conventional ammunition. ” The supply contract must pass in 2014-2016.

From the LEOPARD 103 2 tanks for Indonesia, the 42 machines in the LEOPARD 2 + configuration were delivered during the 2014 year. The rest of the 61 machine will be in LEOPARD 2RI configuration. Leopard 2 + is a limited upgrade of the LEOPARD 2A4 configuration, which included some improvements to the gun and fire control system to shoot the latest generation of ammunition, replaced the tower electric drives and installed air-conditioning system. LEOPARD 2RI is a more ambitious upgrade, which included the entire upgrade to the configuration of LEOPARD 2 + with the addition of a reservation kit based on the reservation kit of the Rheinmetall REVOLUTION option. In addition, according to the report of the German parliament 2013, the Indonesian contract provides for the supply of specialized machines, including four BUFFEL ARV (BREM), three AEV (engineering) and three AVLB (bridge laying).


Tank LEOPARD 2A6M CAN with lattice screens


Opportunities continue

As can be seen from the article there are many options for modernization that can be implemented on the tank LEOPARD 2. It should be noted right away that for those who are looking for effective tank forces, in Europe there are still quite affordable LEOPARD 2 chassis from the generation LEOPARD 2A4 and higher. Equally, these chassis available on the market offer tank operators the opportunity to replenish their fleets or convert excess chassis into specialized options, such as armored vehicles, engineering vehicles and bridge layers.

As for current upgrades, the upgrade possibilities of LEOPARD 2 are extremely diverse. First of all, it is worth noting the so-called “official” upgrades, when KMW consistently goes from 2A4 to 2A5, to 2A6 / 2A6M and, finally, to the 2A7 configuration. Indeed, the contract concluded in QNUMX of April with Qatar for the purchase of X-NUMX tanks LEOPARD 2013A62 puts KMW in a rather unique position, because it is one of the few western tank manufacturers that has received a contract for the production of tanks. KMW currently offers LEOPARD 2A7 + as an export system with a special focus on Middle Eastern operating conditions.

Thus, as for the “official” upgrades, KMW can be quite sure that at one point, in addition to 20 tanks currently being upgraded, will receive orders to upgrade the existing fleet of 205 tanks LEOPARD 2A6 / 2A6M to the German army to the configuration of LEOPARD 2A7. You can also reflect on the fact that the LEOPARD 2A7 upgrade will attract the existing operators of LEOPARD 2 tanks, especially those that already have the 2A6 version in service.

A wide range of "unofficial" upgrades tank LEOPARD 2. Take at least the company RUAG Defense and modernization of the tank Pz87WE. This time-tested solution can be one of the options for upgrading LEOPARD 2A4. In addition, the growth of financing in Switzerland will to some extent contribute to the growth of the quantity and quality of the modernization of the Pz87 tank, while the export potential may also increase. We also saw another proposal on modernization in Turkey. There, Aselsan is proposing a LEOPARD 2A4 upgrade to the LEOPARD 2 Next Generation configuration.

IBD Deisenroth has developed the Evolution retrofit kit, which seriously increases the level of protection against the full range of threats. For the LEOPARD 2SG Singapore retrofit, many elements of the Evolution kit are used. IBD protection components are also included in the LEOPARD 2 REVOLUTION retrofit kit, developed by Rheinmetall. Depending on the needs of the customer, Rheinmetall offers very wide possibilities for modernization, for example, a completely reworked tower, a new fire control system, and increased fire power. In conclusion, we can conclude that the maintenance of the combat capabilities of the LEOPARD 2 tank and its modernization on a global scale will allow us to preserve the highly profitable business for many years.

Materials used:
www.janes.com
www.kmweg.com
www.wikipedia.org
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117 comments
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  1. +16
    11 August 2015 05: 31
    "Leo2" will remain in service with many countries for a very long time, it turned out to be of very high quality, which once again confirmed the high class of the German tank building school. But that it will be replaced by a new car is no longer in doubt, since the appearance of our "Armata" simply forces our "partners" to keep up ...
    1. +10
      11 August 2015 07: 46
      I agree, but still heavy, like some of his other feline predecessors.
      But he fought with Gulkin, so it’s too early to talk about him, as well as about armature and early to evaluate.
      And it’s better that they didn’t meet at all .....
    2. wk
      +11
      11 August 2015 12: 15
      Quote: svp67
      since the appearance of our "Armata"

      What appeared is the running layout? crude concept .... remember they promised in 2012 a serial release, then in 2015 ... now after 2017 ... Do you believe it yourself?
      1. 0
        11 August 2015 19: 11
        The release should begin at the end of 16, or the beginning of 17, Putin personally hurried with the introduction of this new technology (Armata platform, Kurgan and Boomerang) so that it’s not sts, Chipollino.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +3
        13 August 2015 11: 26
        Where did Leo show himself as an "outstanding tank"?
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +3
      11 August 2015 21: 58
      It will certainly be in service.
      In countries friendly Germany.
      And what is the achievement of the German tank building school ??
      Enlighten for sho such a grandmother? - it is MUCH more expensive than T 72
      To be honest - as it does not inspire ..
      Although I understand sho from an expensive tank and fat more ...
  2. 0
    11 August 2015 06: 39
    "Leo2" will remain in service with many countries for a very long time, it turned out to be of very high quality, which once again confirmed the high class of the German tank building school. But that it will be replaced by a new car is no doubt the same, since the appearance of our "Armata" simply forces our "partners" to keep up ... "
    I can not disagree with you.
    But about Armata, do not overestimate her merits)
    I think that in the United States and Europe, work is already underway, and it was being done, to create a new MBT. And this is logical. Both our and European tanks have long been outdated. Compare how long MBTs were considered "new" during the Cold War. They were changed once in a row. 2-3 faster than now. (And this was not only in the USSR, but also in the United States, although they were more conservative in this regard.)
    1. +4
      11 August 2015 21: 59
      Can you explain to me how good Leo 2 is ???
      Wow factor, please do not involve ..
  3. +4
    11 August 2015 07: 25
    What can I say - a serious rival to our tanks. The best foreign tank is modest.
    1. +4
      11 August 2015 11: 39
      Quote: andrei.yandex
      The best foreign tank is modest.

      What is he the best?
      1. 0
        11 August 2015 19: 19
        The best of foreign tanks. Take and compare M1 Abrams, Challenger 2, Arietta, Merkava 4, Leclerc and Leopard 2A7. Then you will understand.
        1. 0
          13 August 2015 10: 53
          Taki compared already. The best of foreign, western tanks are the AMX-56 LEKLERK and MERKAVA MK-4.
        2. 0
          13 August 2015 11: 27
          Compare, compare, better than what?
          1. +1
            13 August 2015 11: 40
            What is better AMX-56? He has everything the same as other western tanks. All the same. The most powerful 120mm gun in 55 calibres. SLA from two computers. Thermal imagers, etc. - Well, all that western tanks are famous for. And at the same time he has what other western tanks do not have. The automatic loader, which allowed him to do 10 rounds per minute, made it smaller and lighter than other Western tanks, but more powerful armored. Hydropneumatic suspension and other cartoons. In general, the question of what is in the AMX-56 that is not present in the LEOPARD is obvious. The reverse question - what is in the LEOPARD such that is not in the AMX-56 - there is no answer.
            1. 0
              13 August 2015 15: 47
              Ahh, maybe the leclerc is good because its booking level is almost equal to the booking level of the leopard 2a4 from the 85th year? And the protection is one of the most important characteristics for a tank, and on it the leclerc is "not very good." ...
              1. +2
                13 August 2015 19: 48
                The Leclerc Tower is under the covers of the spare parts. Where is the powerful reservation?

                Leo-2 has 20mm main side armor. For comparison, the t-72-80-90 70-80mm.
                And the 4th battery and additional equipment of the tank are generally located on the fenders.
    2. 0
      13 August 2015 18: 01
      I think the best competitor to our tanks is not a leopard, but a leclerc and, perhaps, Chinese and Korean news
      1. 0
        13 August 2015 21: 23
        You do not respect our tanks at all, since you are comparing them with this trough, armored protection from the 85th?
  4. +5
    11 August 2015 08: 52
    LEOPARD 2, received the baptism of fire in Afghanistan, is in service with many countries


    But what is all this baptism of fire?
    1. +5
      11 August 2015 12: 36
      In no way, in fact, it was not ....
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. gjv
      +5
      11 August 2015 16: 27
      Quote: Garry Rosich
      But what is all this baptism of fire?

      Quote: gla172
      In no way, in fact, it was not ....

      During the offensive on November 2, 2007, the 2A6M tank was blown up by a makeshift explosive device, but remained intact: “The crew got on the IED and were the first to test the Leopard 2A6M modification,” the Canadian officer wrote to German media. The General Staff of the Canadian Armed Forces, General Rick Hillier, reported that the tank, having been blown up on IEDs, was decommissioned, but returned to the ranks after the repair. In October 2007, Denmark also introduced the Leopard 2A5 DK to southern Afghanistan. The tanks were taken from the Jydske Dragonregiment battalion (Jutland Dragoons Regiment), which had 3 tanks, one M113 infantry fighting vehicle, reconnaissance vehicle, and other tanks in reserve. The Danish version of the Leopard 2A5 is equipped with Swedish Barracuda camouflage, which limits the absorption of solar radiation, which reduces the infrared signature of the car. In addition, the tank has a traditional outdoor driver's seat, while the Canadian 2A6M uses the Dynamic Safety Seat as a protection against mines, thanks to which the driver is fixed with similar parachute belts. 6 wide belts hold him in the right position in limbo. In this case, the driver’s contact with the tank’s hull is excluded, which reduces the impact of the explosion on it. In January 2008, Danish tanks stopped the Taliban flanking maneuver near the Helmand River, provided fire support to the Danish and British infantry from the hill. On February 26, 2008, the Danish Leopard 2 was blown up on a land mine and one truck was damaged. The car under its own power returned to the camp for repair. The first fatal incident for the crew occurred on July 25, 2008. Danish Leopard 2A5 was blown up by IEDs in Helmand province. The car drove another 200 meters after the explosion. Three crew members, being wounded, left the tank, the driver could not be saved. In the same incident, a second tank hit a land mine, but none of the crew members were injured. Since December 7, 2008, Leopard 2 has been part of Operation Red Dagger. The vehicles received 31 ammunition to support coalition forces in the capture of the city of Nad Ali in the western part of Helmand province. The British Department of Defense noted that tanks, with their accurate fire and mobility, were a decisive factor in successfully completing a combat mission. The Danes consider these episodes to be baptism of fire.

      The film shows - the Khokhlov transporter An-124 was delivering tanks to Afghanistan.
      1. +3
        11 August 2015 17: 02
        Thanks for the info!


        and this is just for humor ....
    4. 0
      11 August 2015 17: 00
      I went there, I went here.
      Based on the information, how NATO fighters paid off the Mujahideen and they didn’t look for a special war in Afghanistan, they reduced losses by all possible means, money.
  5. +5
    11 August 2015 11: 58
    I don't know why, but when I first saw a photo of the newest West German tank Leopard-2 on a color insert in the magazine Foreign Military Review, and the Leo-2 was in its original incarnation - a chopped-box turret without an additional hinged armor, I immediately had a strong association between this panzer and another product of the gloomy Teutonic genius: the heavy tank "Tiger" Pz.Kpfw / VI (H) designed by Aders, that unkind memory of the panzer, for the first time in a relatively massive order used in the battles on Kursk arc. Then it seemed to me that the German tank builders returned to their time-tested original path ("Leopard-1" did not cause associations with German tanks of World War II at all). I understand that this is not at all true, but nevertheless such are the stable associations. "Leo-2" is in the photo in the article, compare with this one:
    1. -2
      11 August 2015 12: 30
      So it is - quadratic, practical, buzzing. Leo and Abrams grew out of a single project, but how much different tanks in the end turned out. Yet the Americans were more concerned about protecting the crew and combat effectiveness. If Abrams were diesel, then Leo would only be armed with the Bundeswehr.
      1. +2
        12 August 2015 01: 38
        as far as I know, the abrash only exceeded the leo in the frontal projection, there the emphasis was placed on this ... the protection of the sides from the RPG fire is higher for the Leo than for the Abrash ... there is an opinion that the American suffers from a lot of vulnerabilities from RPG on the sides and according to this indicator, he lags behind the Leclerc and the Challenger and Leo, only the Americans carefully hide it ... the facts the defeat of the abrasha from RPG-7 is really not known which grenade ... the comrade read on the amers forum so the crew member himself described but about the fact that the German or Saxon slammed from the seven did not hear
      2. +2
        12 August 2015 01: 39
        so sorry forced to disagree ..
      3. +1
        13 August 2015 11: 29
        There are modifications of diesel "Abrams".
      4. +2
        13 August 2015 15: 50
        There is such an Abrams, with a diesel engine, and it is in service only with kangaroos, in other cases it "lost a little" to the leopard in most countries in competitions for adoption, why would it? Maybe the abrashka is still worse?
    2. +3
      11 August 2015 16: 55
      Then I imagined that the German tank builders returned to their time-tested original path

      Yes, yes, they returned to their own way, so to speak. smile
      1. gjv
        0
        11 August 2015 17: 28
        Quote: i80186
        Yes, yes, they returned to their own way, so to speak.

        Remarkable stew. Here's another "gorge" under the "tin can". Maybe a stew too.
    3. -1
      11 August 2015 17: 30
      They almost escaped from tiger-2 by a run, since aviation helped because of its predominance.
      In general, Russian and German schools describe one thing but from different perspectives.
  6. wk
    -6
    11 August 2015 12: 08
    good "masha" (car) sorry that not ours .... and so the long-awaited "armata" turned into a "new dress of the king" at international forums over the "armature" laugh not childish ... a tank devoid of performance characteristics ... secrecy e. .t ..... when will the Accounts Chamber and the investigating authorities visit UVZ?
    1. +1
      11 August 2015 17: 05
      Comrade, don’t have tears.
      T-72b3, T-90 completely and somewhere and more overlap TTX leo
      -2, "Armata" STE is a different generation, a different level, if so more understandable.
      And about the performance characteristics of "Armata", the war is on the verge and you are like a child, give performance characteristics.
      1. wk
        -8
        11 August 2015 17: 16
        Quote: Igor K
        T-72b3, T-90 completely and somewhere and more overlap TTX leo

        I am not an expert, but I have not read about any overlapping performance characteristics ... except for "no analogue in the world" and is easily repaired on the battlefield .... generally a wild advantage !!!!
        Quote: Igor K
        "Armata" STE is a different generation, a different level if so understandable. And about the performance characteristics of “Armata”, on the verge of war and you are like a child, give me something.

        Yes there is no "armata" eyewash!
        1. -4
          11 August 2015 19: 43
          Armata - a very real and already completed combat vehicle, at UVZ have already begun to begin its mass production.
        2. +4
          11 August 2015 20: 02
          Quote: wk
          fraud

          So sit still and do not rub it.
        3. 0
          13 August 2015 11: 36
          Do you know how many times 72yoke got into the side of the seven and it left on its own? But judging by the mood of your comment, this is an essessseno "fake" (and since there is something about our technique besides a fake, that's tama-syama wow ...) Yab looked at Leo when he fought for 5 years at least in Afghanistan , and then took up statistics.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +1
        11 August 2015 17: 17
        The Leopard 2A7 has more powerful ammunition than the T 72 and T 90, and the electronics generally have heaven and earth.
        1. wk
          -4
          11 August 2015 17: 22
          Quote: Vadim237
          The Leopard 2A7 has more powerful ammunition than the T 72 and T 90, and the electronics generally have heaven and earth.

          yes even if not so .... one cartridge case in the automatic loader of all Soviet tanks starting from t 64 does not give a chance to our vehicles .... they can’t do a normal sight ... and quality? talk to the tank crew.
          1. +3
            11 August 2015 19: 54
            Quote: wk
            a cartridge case in the automatic loader of all Soviet tanks starting from t 64 does not give a chance to our vehicles

            What are you talking about? If you talk about survivability - compare the dimensions of the Leopard and the T-72, at least. "Big cupboard falls loudly", you know

            Quote: wk
            can't make a normal sight

            1G42 - why not a sight? Laser sight-rangefinder, the ballistic computer is included in the OMS, including. As far as I remember - adjustments for wind-temperature-wear of the bore -... - work out.

            It was also installed on the T-64B, myself with it .. um .. talked .. a very nice thing, I will report to you: I pressed "Measure" - and shoot.

            Quote: wk
            I'm not an expert

            That's noticeable. Yes
          2. +2
            11 August 2015 20: 01
            Quote: wk
            .one cartridge case in the automatic loading system of all Soviet tanks starting from t 64 does not give a chance to our cars.

            Soviet tanks DO NOT have a cap loading. The only ones who use it are the British.
            Quote: wk
            can’t do a normal sight ... and quality? talk to the tank crew.

            Well let's talk. PDPS, aka 1G42 and PDPN, aka 1G46 - GREAT SIGHTS. Who shot them can confirm.
            1. wk
              -2
              11 August 2015 21: 52
              Quote: svp67
              Soviet tanks DO NOT have a cap loading. The only ones who use it are the British.

              I don’t know what you mean by this .... I understand a combustible propellant that is not protected by a sleeve, which represents the greatest danger to all Soviet tanks since t 64
              1. +3
                11 August 2015 22: 14
                Quote: wk
                Quote: svp67
                Soviet tanks have NO shotgun loading

                I don’t know what you mean by that

                Do you even look at Vicki or something ..

                Quote: Wiki
                Cartridge (separate) loading - a loading method in which the projectile and combat charge placed in special bags (caps), are not connected in water and the whole and they are put into the tool one by one.


                Quote: wk
                I understand a combustible propellant not protected by a sleeve

                T-64, 72, 80 has a sleeve ... it’s just cardboard, and its pallet is metal. In the picture (below) the charge is on the right, the shell is on the left.

                Quote: wk
                which poses the greatest danger to all Soviet tanks since t 64

                There is an opinion that if a tank flew into a combat station (and in the T-55, for example, it is in the fuel tank sockets, right now I remember .. oh, the topic ..) - it’s all the same there — this cardboard sleeve, or brass. The problem is that you still have to get into this styling.

                And further. Unlike you, colleague, I served on the T-64, and I saw the T-72, T-80B and T-80UD alive. And the sights there are quite on the level, and everything else - too .. quite imagined.

                Don’t argue with you .. against the obvious, and people will reach for you wink
              2. +2
                11 August 2015 23: 05
                Quote: wk
                I understand that a combustible propellant that is not protected by a sleeve, which represents the greatest danger to all Soviet tanks since t 64

                By the way, on Western tanks the sleeve is also combustible. After the shot, only the bastard remains (like ours). Here, only the Challenger stands alone, with its cap loading.
              3. 0
                13 August 2015 11: 38
                Well, finally, here he is a real specialist, finished the discussion.
        2. 0
          13 August 2015 11: 37
          In the course you fought in it.
        3. 0
          13 August 2015 18: 12
          1. ammunition is not a tank. If you put a box of lemon in the tank, it will not get any cooler
          2. Electronics: in the t-72 and t-90 the concept of a simple tank for draftees was implemented, which makes it very popular, however, this does not make it weaker than foreign tanks. The lack of sophisticated electronics is a big plus. In comparison with foreign counterparts, our tanks are light in weight and the sighting and sighting equipment is somewhat weaker, which in the latest versions are beginning to be fixed.
      4. 0
        13 August 2015 18: 08
        Armata, I believe, is not MBT. This is a real heavy tank.
        This is its fundamental difference from the t-72, t-90, leo-2, leclerc, etc.
  7. 0
    11 August 2015 12: 16
    All the same, the German tank builders have a thrust towards right angles ...
    Of course, with the advent of cumulative shells, the tilt angle does not matter as much as before, but the thickness of the armor increases, and why they neglect such a simple solution ...
    1. wk
      -1
      11 August 2015 12: 28
      Some of the "experts" on the site gave a link to calculations on this, the bottom line is that with a large thickness of armor, this effect decreases, and in general it is not such a straightforward effect as it seems at first glance, there are also negative points google it. .. there is such.
      1. +1
        11 August 2015 16: 24
        Well, I don’t know, it’s kind of like the thickness will be calculated in a purely geometric way

        When hit in an inclined armor plate, the projectile must penetrate the armor layer equal to the thickness of the armor plate, divided by the cosine of the angle of impact:
        beff = bα = 0 / cosα,
        where
        beff is the effective thickness of the armor (along the projectile),
        α, city - the angle of impact of the projectile with the armor (from the normal).
        WiKi
        Rational reservation
        1. wk
          -3
          11 August 2015 17: 06
          I won’t argue because I can’t imagine those calculations (I’m weak in search, but I read it very recently in one of the tank cf..ch) .... well, of the visible shortcomings is the increase in size with the same reserved space, and therefore and the masses ... compare Leopard and Merkava with its futuristic tower shapes.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 0
      11 August 2015 17: 24
      They initially set a 22 ° angle in the tank for safe maneuvering in which it does not look bad at its tilt angles (if you look from above).
      Again, the desire of the Germans to make the design as technological as possible from the point of view of production.
    4. 0
      13 August 2015 15: 58
      Apparently we are fools, too, or not?
      The same welded tower, with right angles, take a look at the DZ.
  8. +1
    11 August 2015 12: 26
    Quote: andrei.yandex
    What can I say - a serious rival to our tanks. The best foreign tank is modest.


    The main ammunition of the tank in the tower is 15 shells, it is less than in the AZ T-90, the remaining ammunition is in the rack next to the mechanic’s drive, adding adrenaline to it in battle. Moreover, it is not in containers, like a merkava. To shift this ammunition must turn the tower 90g. Those. logically, you need to leave the battlefield. Is such a conditionally battle tank the best in the world?
    1. +3
      11 August 2015 12: 38
      Quote: Engineer
      The main ammunition tank in the tower - 15 shells

      In your opinion, in a modern battle, will a tank have time to fire at least 10 shells? wink

      PS
      Have fun.

      1. 0
        11 August 2015 16: 09
        Quote: professor
        Have fun.

        Technology at the highest level, super! It is not clear how the engine connects to the leading stars and the fuel system - in the video they unscrewed a couple of bolts under the belly, removed the cover and voila - you can pull out the engine. As I understand it, all on-board systems are powered by the APU, which is not connected to the engine in any way and has its own fuel system?
        1. gjv
          +3
          11 August 2015 16: 43
          Quote: Sukhoi
          It is not clear how the engine is connected to the leading stars and the fuel system - on

          The fuel system is connected by quick-release hoses, torque transmission through friction clutches.


          It acts as a power plant - MTU MB 873 diesel engine with a capacity of 1100 kW. This is a four-stroke, 12-cylinder turbocharged, liquid-cooled engine with a capacity of 47,6 liters. The design provides for a multi-fuel installation with a flow rate of 300 liters per 100 km of highway and 500 liters when driving over rough terrain. Engine replacement can be done in the field in 15 minutes. The Renk hydromechanical transmission HSWL354 is used, which has 4 forward and 2 reverse gears matched with a torque converter. The gearbox is fully automatic and consists of three planetary gear sets with disc brakes that allow you to engage 1,2 and 3 gears, and also block the friction clutch when you engage 4. When moving forward at a speed of no more than 8 km / h, you can immediately switch to reverse using friction elements. The use of hydrostatic transmission of the rotation mechanism significantly reduces the load on the chassis and transmission and provides kinematic adjustment of the radius of rotation by analogy with civilian technology. The Leopard 2 tank carries 3 fuel tanks with a total capacity of 1160 liters (500 liter tank in the MTO, and 700 liter 2 tanks on the fenders). The machine is capable of speeds of 68 km / h on the highway (limited to 50 km / h in peacetime) and 31 km / h in reverse. The power plant and transmission are separated from the fighting compartment by a refractory bulkhead. Recently, a new EuroPowerPack MTU MT883 engine with a capacity of 1210 kW was tested on the tank. EuroPowerPack is a combination of the MTU MT883 diesel engine with the five-speed Renk HSWL 295TM automatic transmission.
          1. 0
            11 August 2015 17: 34
            Quote: gjv
            The fuel system is connected by quick-release hoses, torque transmission through friction clutches.

            Such a story on all versions?
            PS Power reserve is modest.
        2. +1
          11 August 2015 17: 18
          Nemchura takes armored vehicles seriously.
          It’s not for nothing that the Atlantists have been so pissing since the time of the tsar of peas of the rapprochement between Russia and Germany.
        3. +1
          11 August 2015 17: 22
          Tank Leopard 2 is really the best and most high-tech of all foreign tanks.
          1. wk
            -2
            11 August 2015 17: 35
            Quote: Vadim237
            Tank Leopard 2 is really the best and most high-tech of all foreign tanks.

            like Leclerc is now the most modern ... he also has a charging device.
            1. 0
              11 August 2015 19: 48
              In optics and electronics, the Leopard 2A7 outperformed everyone, including Leclerc.
        4. -1
          11 August 2015 19: 01
          Quote: Sukhoi
          Technology at the highest level, super!

          The Germans, without straining, replaced the SU roller in a quarter of an hour. On Merkava it takes even less time. wink
          1. +2
            11 August 2015 19: 52
            Quote: professor
            The Germans, without straining, replaced the SU roller in a quarter of an hour.

            There is not just SU, but the whole MTU ... And of course they have a huge plus.
            1. 0
              6 November 2017 17: 49
              What is the plus? if something small has broken, pull out the whole block? This is a double-edged sword. The power unit is very tightly packed, so you can’t make minor repairs (this is 80% of all repairs).
          2. MMX
            +1
            11 August 2015 20: 08
            Quote: professor
            Quote: Sukhoi
            Technology at the highest level, super!

            The Germans, without straining, replaced the SU roller in a quarter of an hour. On Merkava it takes even less time. wink


            Ah so what was meant by the wording "the problem with the reliability of the Merkava engines is solved." Not bad.
            1. +1
              11 August 2015 20: 32
              Quote: MMX
              Ah so what was meant by the wording "the problem with the reliability of the Merkava engines is solved." Not bad.

              Such an opportunity existed even on Merkava 40 years ago long before Merkava 4 and childhood diseases with its German engine. Not bad.

              Quote: Igor K
              It depends on what kind of battle, if fire support is one thing, if a breakthrough of the enemy’s defense is another, well, if banditry is the third in the operational scope of the breakthrough.

              So give us an example (better from personal experience) where in a modern battle the tank managed to use at least half of the ammunition.

              Quote: Igor K
              And generally it is not necessary to juggle between how much you can shoot and whether it can, not seriously.

              It is serious. If a tank does not have a chance to use up 15-20 shells in a modern battle, then why should anyone discuss 40 of them, and who has 50?

              Quote: svp67
              With 6-8 rounds per minute, the firing rate, why not? Already one and a half to two minutes, he can hold out on the battlefield ...

              6-8 rounds per minute is for sparrows. The tank does not have as many targets per minute on the battlefield.
              1. MMX
                0
                11 August 2015 20: 41
                Such an opportunity existed even on Merkava 40 years ago long before Merkava 4 and childhood diseases with its German engine. Not bad.


                Well, the foreign engine has always been))) That would have been mine, that's another matter. And so, yes, provided lol
                1. +2
                  11 August 2015 20: 51
                  Quote: MMX
                  Well, the foreign engine has always been))) That would have been mine, that's another matter. And so, yes, provided

                  Engines are primarily divided by performance characteristics: power, fuel consumption, torque; reliability, maintainability and only then on "own" and "foreign". wink
                  1. MMX
                    +3
                    11 August 2015 20: 54
                    Quote: professor
                    Quote: MMX
                    Well, the foreign engine has always been))) That would have been mine, that's another matter. And so, yes, provided

                    Engines are primarily divided by performance characteristics: power, fuel consumption, torque; reliability, maintainability and only then on "own" and "foreign". wink


                    Well, yes, as long as the embargo is not imposed, and divided. And these conversations, like "your own", "not your own", this is all nonsense that does not matter, right?
                    1. -2
                      11 August 2015 21: 01
                      Quote: MMX
                      Well, yes, as long as the embargo is not imposed, and divided. And these conversations, like "your own", "not your own", this is all nonsense that does not matter, right?

                      The Germans will enter, put the Japanese. It’s also like a good diesel, right? wink
                      By the way, Israel has been under sanctions for more than 60 years.
                      1. +2
                        11 August 2015 21: 05
                        Quote: professor
                        The Germans will enter, put the Japanese. It’s also like a good diesel, right? wink
                        By the way, Israel has been under sanctions for more than 60 years.

                        If the Germans enter, then automatically and from the Japs get. (History shows). wink
                      2. +1
                        12 August 2015 14: 16
                        Quote: Allex28
                        Quote: professor

                        By the way, Israel has been under sanctions for more than 60 years.


                        I wonder what kind of "terrible" sanctions it is, during which the Israeli regime receives combat aircraft and helicopters from the United States, submarines from Germany and the EU countries are the country's largest trading partners.
                      3. MMX
                        0
                        11 August 2015 21: 24
                        Quote: professor
                        Quote: MMX
                        Well, yes, as long as the embargo is not imposed, and divided. And these conversations, like "your own", "not your own", this is all nonsense that does not matter, right?

                        The Germans will enter, put the Japanese. It’s also like a good diesel, right? wink
                        By the way, Israel has been under sanctions for more than 60 years.


                        Sanctions and embargoes - is that the same?
                        Engines in Japan are good. A country with the highest engineering potential. But I don’t remember tank engines at the bottom. Well, yes it doesn’t matter. They will be able to create and produce if you pay all the costs, including the modernization of the tank. Israel is a generous country)))
                      4. -1
                        11 August 2015 21: 33
                        Quote: MMX
                        Sanctions and embargoes - is that the same?

                        We have both. And also a state of war with several countries. What do you like more?

                        Quote: MMX
                        Israel is a generous country)))

                        Quite. It’s not stingy with its safety. hi
                      5. MMX
                        +2
                        11 August 2015 21: 48
                        We have both.

                        Tell it to Cuba. It will be fun. A couple of years of such an embargo, and Israel, not surrounded by a sea-okean, will take shape.

                        And also a state of war with several countries. What do you like more?


                        Yah? We then in Russia do not understand such things. We live without knowing the war for a thousand years like ... Yes, and with that very Japan (3rd world economy) we did not conclude a peace treaty ...

                        Quite. It’s not stingy with its safety.


                        That is right. The main thing that would be where to buy. And then, in fact, they will impose an embargo on the supply of everything that goes to the defense industry (and they have it in Europe and the Americas, this is done as a hello) and hi Islam.
                      6. -3
                        11 August 2015 22: 00
                        Quote: MMX
                        Tell it to Cuba. It will be fun. A couple of years of such an embargo, and Israel, not surrounded by a sea-okean, will take shape.

                        Let Cuba first tell you when it was last attacked, when the buses with its children were blown up. Let him tell about tens of thousands of "advisers" from the Council of Deputies who fought against it. Let him tell how many anti-Cuban resolutions were adopted at the UN. Let him talk about sanctions and embargoes since 1948. Better sea-ocean than Hamas, PLO and Hezbollah with Assad.


                        Quote: MMX
                        Yah? We then in Russia do not understand such things. We live without knowing the war for a thousand years like ... Yes, and with that very Japan (3rd world economy) we did not conclude a peace treaty ...

                        So and yes do not understand. Russia even with Georgia is not in a state of war, but laughter about Japan in general. "No peace treaty ..." Ay, ay, ay. Is there an embassy? They shoot at the border, do tourists ride here and there? Well, definitely a war. lol Well, just like on the border with Gaza, he became at full height and grabbed a bullet in the forehead.

                        Quote: MMX
                        That is right. The main thing that would be where to buy. And then, in fact, they will impose an embargo on the supply of everything that goes to the defense industry (and they have it in Europe and the Americas, this is done as a hello) and hi Islam.

                        Both America and the Soviet of Deputies and Japan have already taxed China and Europe. Survived. And we live better than some. You do not worry about us. The war is won not by weapons, but by soldiers.
                      7. 0
                        11 August 2015 22: 13
                        Quote: professor
                        The war is won not by weapons, but by soldiers.

                        Smiled ... Russians such an axiom ... wassat
                      8. +3
                        12 August 2015 08: 19
                        Quote: Allex28
                        Smiled ... Russians such an axiom ...

                        So. It’s not a weapon that wins the war, but a soldier. An extreme example is the brave Shiite Iraqi soldiers who threw Abrams at rumors about the approach of Ishilov’s in jeeps. Before that, there were brave Georgian soldiers who threw modern weapons without a fight.

                        Quote: MMX
                        Take more! Millions! Millions of advisers! .. Have you seen enough Indian films?

                        No. Materiel learned what and I advise you.

                        Quote: MMX
                        Israel is a dependent country from an external source. If the source is very angry, then the problems of Israel will increase many times, to say the least.

                        It seems to me the word "Israel" you can safely change the word "Russia" and your statement will not lose its meaning. Look, "the source is NOT very angry", and your economy is already bursting at the seams. What happens when he gets VERY angry?

                        Quote: MMX
                        That's just what he will fight in conditions of real isolation, the question is big ...

                        As before, mainly with the brains and all kinds of Uzi, Galilia, Tavors, Hermes, Kfirs, Atmos and other non-Russian names.

                        Quote: Sukhoi
                        Professor, the question is a little off topic, but still ... Do you know (not necessarily personally) your compatriot Jacob Kedmi? If so, how do you feel?

                        I ignore it as an ambitious "expert" who is offended and has not fallen into politics.
                      9. MMX
                        -1
                        12 August 2015 09: 18
                        No. Materiel learned what and I advise you.


                        Blessed is he who believes.

                        It seems to me the word "Israel" you can safely change the word "Russia" and your statement will not lose its meaning. Look, "the source is NOT very angry", and your economy is already bursting at the seams. What happens when he gets VERY angry?


                        In Soviet times, the source was very angry and nothing, the first in space was Yuri Alekseevich (as for example) ...
                        Ha, funny, I didn’t name the source)))
                        With regard to the current economic situation, it is "bursting at the seams" is somewhat untrue. Recession after fat years. Even strategically useful.

                        As before, mainly with the brains and all kinds of Uzi, Galilia, Tavors, Hermes, Kfirs, Atmos and other non-Russian names.

                        And Merkavakh, they forgot to say. Just buy the engines for them from someone and go. In extreme cases, pedals or pull-rod, the "Chariot" burns all the same ... lol
                        And so, yes. Look, North Korea lives and doesn’t complain ...
                      10. -1
                        12 August 2015 10: 25
                        Quote: MMX
                        In Soviet times, the source was very angry and nothing, the first in space was Yuri Alekseevich (as for example) ...

                        1. Russia is not the USSR.
                        2. Gagarin was sent into space, but the roads were never built.
                        3. How did you finish the USSR?

                        Quote: MMX
                        With regard to the current economic situation, it is "bursting at the seams" is somewhat untrue. Recession after fat years. Even strategically useful.

                        Double-digit inflation, a decline in production, imports, exports, a rise in price of everything and everything ... Hmm ... Very useful strategic plan. wassat Type the strongest survive.

                        Quote: MMX
                        And Merkavakh, they forgot to say. Just buy the engines for them from someone and go. In extreme cases, pedals or pull-rod, the "Chariot" burns all the same ...

                        The pedal drive is just that. Personally, I love pedaling. As for the tanks, this is an atavism. But if our native Zionist government puts a national priority on "creating a tank engine" (fortunately, it is not so stupid), then I dare to assure you that "its own" diesel will appear. There is a scientific and technical base, as well as personnel. That is, everything is there except the need to create "your" diesel engine.

                        Have a nice day. hi
                      11. MMX
                        0
                        12 August 2015 13: 45
                        1. Russia is not the USSR.
                        2. Gagarin was sent into space, but the roads were never built.
                        3. How did you finish the USSR?


                        1. The USSR is the history of our country.
                        2. Built. And not only roads. Yes, not everywhere there is a developed network of roads. Well, both the size of the country and the climate are somewhat different from Switzerland, say, or Liechtenstein.
                        3. The Soviet Union confronted the world alone in fact.

                        Double-digit inflation, a decline in production, imports, exports, a rise in price of everything and everything ... Hmm ... Very useful strategic plan. wassat type survive the fittest.


                        Well, over the past 15 years, they have accumulated fat and got used to a well-fed life ... The Russian car fleet has grown several times, and the number of car dealers selling world-class new cars has exceeded all conceivable limits, construction projects (both housing and commercial real estate) have shown record rates (though that real estate prices in Russia are not lower than European, and often higher), the tourist flow from the Russian Federation has also increased many times over the years, etc., etc. And this is after the devastation of the 90s ...
                        Will the fittest survive? No, rather adapt to changing conditions. Speaking of the embargo, you say that Israel will calmly survive it. But about us somehow differently right away, they say not all will survive, etc.
                        And the economy's "crackling at the seams" is not particularly felt (as someone living in Russia can say). The range, quality and prices of goods have not changed much (except for cars).

                        The pedal drive is just that. Personally, I love pedaling. As for the tanks, this is an atavism. But if our native Zionist government puts a national priority on "creating a tank engine" (fortunately, it is not so stupid), then I dare to assure you that "its own" diesel will appear. There is a scientific and technical base, as well as personnel. That is, everything is there except the need to create "your" diesel engine.


                        Well, yes, you can always modify it with your feet, as you know ...
                        You can create a lot, the main thing is that there would be enough resources at the level. And tiny Israel has problems with this.

                        Have a nice day.


                        And you are in a good mood.
                      12. 0
                        12 August 2015 14: 22
                        Quote: MMX
                        1. The USSR is the history of our country.
                        2. Built. And not only roads. Yes, not everywhere there is a developed network of roads. Well, both the size of the country and the climate are somewhat different from Switzerland, say, or Liechtenstein.
                        3. The Soviet Union confronted the world alone in fact.

                        1. That's exactly what the story is. Traces of past greatness.
                        2. The climate in Canada is also not tropical, but there are no complaints about the roads (from personal experience).
                        In Japan, the length of asphalt roads is greater than in all of Russia combined.
                        3.


                        Quote: MMX
                        Well, over the past 15 years they have accumulated fat and are used to a well-fed life ...

                        Do not read Soviet newspapers before dinner. What fat? There is no time for fat, I would be living.
                        Before sanctions:
                        GDP $ 24,700 (2013 est.) 69th place in the world, between the Bahamas and Seychelles.
                        Economic growth 1.3% (2013 est.) 196-3 m3sto in the world, immediately beyond the West Bank
                        Life expectancy is 70.47 years, 152nd place in the world, between Kazakhstan and Moldova.
                        Continue?

                        Quote: MMX
                        Speaking of the embargo, you say that Israel will calmly survive it.

                        It’s not calm (there is an Embargo now. For example, Japan), but it will survive.

                        Quote: MMX
                        You can create a lot, the main thing is that there would be enough resources at the level. And tiny Israel has problems with this.

                        The main thing is human resources, and in this Israel can only be envied. Special thanks to the national politics of the USSR.
                      13. MMX
                        0
                        12 August 2015 18: 47
                        1. That's exactly what the story is. Traces of past greatness


                        1. Well was it? There was something arguing here.

                        The climate in Canada is also not tropical, but there are no complaints about the roads (from personal experience).


                        2. They did not need to maintain such an army and navy, as well as to butt around the world with a hegemon.

                        3. List of socialist countries? Cool. Almost all of these countries we fought in different periods of history))) And I also had a snack with communist China ...
                        This did not affect the fact that the USSR was fighting the United States and NATO virtually all over the world. By the way, I note that all of Europe together got scared into the Alliance and graciously gave the reins of power to the United States. NATO (actually a military alliance of the most developed countries of the world) was created for only one thing - the fight against the USSR. This fact is already enough to speak about the influence and strength of our country in the world.

                        The climate in Canada is also not tropical, but there are no complaints about the roads (from personal experience).


                        I do not read. I see all the action outside the window. And car dealerships (in 2008, like we became the largest car market in the EU, then the truth was returned to the German crown, but stably in the top three), and clusters of new quarters, and huge shopping malls built one at a time (in our city) and an overwhelming number of busy on the ears of tour operators, and compatriots around the world can not be met (from personal experience).
                        After the crucible of the 90s, we are no longer surprised at anything, so I don’t think it will be worse.

                        It’s not calm (there is an Embargo now. For example, Japan), but it will survive.


                        If the embargo will be at the UN level and as with Iraq or North Korea, then 5 years and truncated.

                        The main thing is human resources, and in this Israel can only be envied. Special thanks to the national politics of the USSR.


                        Well I say, the great and richest country laughing
                        A part of the Jews, by the way, successfully returned back (from the USA and Israel, including).
                      14. 0
                        12 August 2015 19: 16
                        Quote: MMX
                        1. Well was it? There was something arguing here.

                        Did not have. There was visibility and then not everywhere.

                        Quote: MMX
                        2. They did not need to maintain such an army and navy, as well as to butt around the world with a hegemon.

                        Well, what kind of army did their southern neighbor keep, and what roads did he rebuild. I understand that there are tropics in Alaska and Illinois, but still ... laughing

                        Quote: MMX
                        This did not affect the fact that the USSR was fighting the United States and NATO virtually all over the world.

                        Organization of the Warsaw Pact

                        Non-Aligned Movement
                        119 countries. "The USSR actually confronted the whole world alone." laughing

                        Quote: MMX
                        I see all the action outside the window.

                        Before sanctions:
                        Population growth minus 0.04%
                        Fertility 11.6 per 1000 inhabitants, 168th place in the world
                        Mortality 13.69 per 1000 inhabitants 10th place in the world in mortality !!!
                        Infant mortality of 6.97 per 1000 newborns 160th place in the world between Porto Rico and Chile. In Israel, 3.98, 199th in the world.

                        Quote: MMX
                        If the embargo will be at the UN level and as with Iraq or North Korea, then 5 years and truncated.

                        We will fight on camels. laughing

                        Quote: MMX
                        Well I say, the great and richest country
                        A part of the Jews, by the way, successfully returned back (from the USA and Israel, including).

                        The richest country is not the one that squanders, but what it gains. By the way, over the past six months, 14000 Russians left for Israel, and in general, over 200 of your fellow citizens left Russia over the past year. And I guess that not the most incapable of work.
                      15. MMX
                        0
                        13 August 2015 06: 01
                        Did not have. There was visibility and then not everywhere.


                        Well, yes, Gagarin did not fly into space, Sholokhov did not write, Vysotsky did not compose, Magamayev did not sing, Bonarchuk did not make films, etc., etc. like that.
                        Although, if by greatness you mean the ability to create a network of carcinogenic fast food or developed pornodustria, then yes, the USSR was not a great power. Here you are right.

                        Well, what kind of army did their southern neighbor keep, and what roads did he rebuild. I understand that there are tropics in Alaska and Illinois, but still ... laughing


                        The United States is the undisputed leader. Who argues. A third of the world's economy. You must understand what this means. lol

                        Organization of the Warsaw Pact

                        Non-Aligned Movement
                        119 countries. "The USSR actually confronted the whole world alone." laughing


                        Well, tell me, my dear, how many and where has participated from this list of countries in military missions?
                      16. 0
                        13 August 2015 07: 00
                        Quote: MMX
                        Well, yes, Gagarin did not fly into space, Sholokhov did not write, Vysotsky did not compose, Magamayev did not sing, Bonarchuk did not make films, etc., etc. like that.

                        The greatness of a country is not determined by the achievements of its individual citizens, by the way its ordinary citizen lives. When Gagarin flew into space in the "great country", the collective farmers had neither passports nor salaries, etc., etc. like that.

                        Quote: MMX
                        Well, tell me, my dear, how many and where has participated from this list of countries in military missions?

                        We delete the Warsaw Treaty countries, the socialist camp, a hundred non-aligned countries, and it turns out that "the USSR actually opposed the whole world alone." Well straight to the whole world and straight by oneself and straight resisted. laughing
                      17. MMX
                        0
                        13 August 2015 12: 47
                        The greatness of a country is not determined by the achievements of its individual citizens, by the way its ordinary citizen lives. When Gagarin flew into space in the "great country", the collective farmers had neither passports nor salaries, etc., etc. like that.


                        When Gagarin flew into space, the collective farmers had passports, salaries, etc.
                        Well, for those who have a rectum that determines consciousness, of course, the benefits of fast food and access to the porn industry, of course, the greatness of the country is determined by this.

                        We delete the Warsaw Treaty countries, the socialist camp, a hundred non-aligned countries, and it turns out that "the USSR actually opposed the whole world alone." Well, straight to the whole world and straight alone and directly opposed.


                        Well, yes, just a country of golden billion with 90% consumption of all the world's resources, and even with the most powerful armies. Just think, nothing. And right alone. And directly opposed.
                      18. 0
                        13 August 2015 13: 22
                        Quote: MMX
                        When Gagarin flew into space, the collective farmers had passports, salaries, etc.

                        No. Then there was no freedom of movement in the "great country", no passports, and instead of salaries there were workdays.

                        The greatness of a country is determined not by its size and not by the achievements of individuals, but by the country's ability to provide a decent life for its citizens and, first of all, the weak, such as disabled people, pensioners, etc. The "great country" of the Council of Deputies was not able to provide elementary food, clothing and housing for its people. And fast food has nothing to do with the porn industry.

                        Quote: MMX
                        Well, yes, just a country of golden billion with 90% consumption of all the world's resources, and even with the most powerful armies. Just think, nothing. And right alone. And directly opposed.

                        At least not alone and not to the whole world. But even if this were so, then this does not justify wretchedness.
                      19. MMX
                        0
                        18 August 2015 21: 36
                        No. Then there was no freedom of movement in the "great country", no passports, and instead of salaries there were workdays.


                        That is why my grandfather then changed a couple of villages. He apparently didn’t know that they didn’t give him passports and were forbidden to travel ... It was a pity there was no direct line with Israel, he would have been explained to him then and he would have sat in place. And so, without knowing, he received a salary, and moved, and had a passport. Shpien apparently ...
                        You tie up with Indian films all the same.

                        The greatness of a country is determined not by its size and not by the achievements of individuals, but by the country's ability to provide a decent life for its citizens and, first of all, the weak, such as disabled people, pensioners, etc. The "great country" of the Council of Deputies was not able to provide elementary food, clothing and housing for its people. And fast food has nothing to do with the porn industry.


                        What spread rot of the USSR for the disabled? What about retirees? Do you judge by the period of perestroika? So it already was a collapse.
                        And about feeding the same thing. If you do not know, then I will tell you that the country went through a fierce war. When civilized Europeans came and killed 20 to 30 million civilians and destroyed a third of my country. When half of the entire industry had to be transported from one part of the country to another. And much more ...
                        And to say that Gagarin’s individual flew into space, well, you know, you need to lower the level of thinking to the level of sewage, then your opus will be relevant.

                        At least not alone and not to the whole world. But even if this were so, then this does not justify wretchedness.


                        If the USSR, 25 years after its disappearance, causes such an arson flicker as yours, then even other evidence of its greatness is not necessary.
                        Israel will disappear and after 25 years no one will even remember (except the Semites, of course) about its existence. But the USSR, a completely different thing ...
                      20. 0
                        19 August 2015 07: 16
                        Quote: MMX
                        That is why my grandfather then changed a couple of villages. He apparently did not know that he was not issued with a passport and was forbidden to move ..

                        The rural population began to receive passports only from 1974, and between 1935 and 1974, collective farmers were not allowed to move to another locality, and they were tied to the collective farm and place of residence. amounted to about 1970 million people, or 50% of the country's population), as before, were deprived of passports and freedom of movement. They could not leave their place of residence without them. According to paragraph 20,5 of the resolution on passports, this entailed a fine of up to 11 rubles. and expulsion by the police. Repeated violation entailed criminal liability. Article 100a, introduced on July 1, 1934 in the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926, provided for imprisonment for up to two years.

                        Quote: MMX
                        And so, without knowing, he received a salary, and moved, and had a passport.

                        Some issues of remuneration on collective farms

                        Quote: MMX
                        What spread rot of the USSR for the disabled? What about retirees? Do you judge by the period of perestroika?

                        He was in a soviet nursing home before perestroika. Been in America in a nursing home.

                        Quote: MMX
                        And about feeding the same thing. If you do not know, then I will tell you that the country went through a fierce war.

                        Yes Yes. That climate, then the war. Someone is always to blame. In the 1970s, the second post-war generation was growing, and there was nothing to eat and dress in the scoop. In Germany and Japan they say there was also a war ... They say they were bombed, even nuclear weapons.

                        Quote: MMX
                        If the USSR, 25 years after its disappearance, causes such an arson flicker as yours, then even other evidence of its greatness is not necessary.

                        By your analogy, Hitler has been gone for 60 years ... Says this about his greatness?

                        Quote: MMX
                        Israel will disappear and after 25 years no one will even remember (except the Semites, of course) about its existence.

                        Israel disappeared about 2000 years ago, but every day it was remembered by everyone, including yours. lol
                      21. MMX
                        0
                        26 August 2015 09: 11
                        The rural population began to receive passports only from 1974, and between 1935 and 1974, collective farmers were not allowed to move to another locality, and they were tied to the collective farm and place of residence. amounted to about 1970 million people, or 50% of the country's population), as before, were deprived of passports and freedom of movement. They could not leave their place of residence without them. According to paragraph 20,5 of the resolution on passports, this entailed a fine of up to 11 rubles. and expulsion by the police. Repeated violation entailed criminal liability. Article 100a, introduced on July 1, 1934 in the Criminal Code of the RSFSR of 1926, provided for imprisonment for up to two years.


                        Stuffing. And primitive. If you don’t know what it is about and are guided only by entries on Wikipedia, then this is an indicator of the level of knowledge and understanding of things, first of all, by you.
                        The fact that in a mandatory (!) Order (unlike city dwellers who had an obligation to obtain a passport) passports were not issued to collective farmers does not mean that they were deprived of this opportunity. Passports were issued to them in an explicit manner. Those. if a citizen, a resident of a collective farm, wanted to get a passport, he came to the police department with a certificate from the village council and received a passport.
                        These are two completely different situations: one is the prohibition of extradition in general; the second is the issuance of the appeal (as actually happened with reality). Liberal govnovbros not counted.

                        Some issues of remuneration on collective farms


                        The difference between wages and time tracking, you do not understand? On your part, there was a thesis that collective farmers did not have salaries (!!!). Workdays is a form of time tracking. Right or wrong is another matter. But you declared the absence of salaries, which is a direct lie.

                        Yes Yes. That climate, then the war. Someone is always to blame. In the 1970s, the second post-war generation was growing, and there was nothing to eat and dress in the scoop. In Germany and Japan they say there was also a war ... They say they were bombed, even nuclear weapons.


                        Japan and Germany have already become (were) superpowers ????
                        And they kept an army "wow," and "fought" everywhere ... nuclear submarines, strategists, nuclear weapons, navies, etc., they had such incredible things.
                        All these countries together under the wing of an older one sat and enjoyed the regime of full assistance. But we had to prove that we will survive on our own. Moreover, at the level of a superpower.

                        By your analogy, Hitler has been gone for 60 years ... Says this about his greatness?


                        The fact that Hitler died 60 years ago does not speak of his greatness.
                        What a question, this is the answer ...))

                        Israel disappeared about 2000 years ago, but every day it was remembered by everyone, including yours.


                        What does modern Israel have to do with the kingdom of Judah?
                      22. 0
                        26 August 2015 10: 35
                        Quote: MMX
                        Stuffing. And primitive. If you don’t know what it is about and are guided only by entries on Wikipedia, then this is an indicator of the level of knowledge and understanding of things, first of all, by you.

                        I have enough of my parents and grandfathers who are from the collective farm. I believe them more than any propagandists.

                        Quote: MMX
                        . Those. if a citizen, a resident of a collective farm, wanted to get a passport, he came to the police department with a certificate from the village council and received a passport.

                        lol

                        Quote: MMX
                        On your part, there was a thesis that collective farmers did not have salaries (!!!).

                        Demagogy. My grandfather received workdays, not money. For workdays he received grain, not money. Go to the city and buy a TV for workdays or grain.

                        Quote: MMX
                        But you declared the absence of salaries, which is a direct lie.

                        Even on kibbutzim they paid with live money and this was called remuneration of labor, and on collective farms there was an in kind payment. Feudalism. Here it is true. Do you want to leave the collective farm then will pay for the ticket at the station? wink

                        Quote: MMX
                        Japan and Germany have already become (were) superpowers ????

                        Exactly. The presence of nuclear weapons with a hungry population does not make the country a superpower.

                        Quote: MMX
                        The fact that Hitler died 60 years ago does not speak of his greatness.

                        And the fact that there is constantly talk about him? By your own analogy.

                        Quote: MMX
                        What does modern Israel have to do with the kingdom of Judah?

                        Direct: the same as modern Russia and the Russia of the Rimanov dynasty.
                      23. MMX
                        0
                        4 September 2015 08: 59
                        I have enough of my parents and grandfathers who are from the collective farm. I believe them more than any propagandists.


                        On the issue of faith - this is not for me, this is to the temple. I operate on the facts. And they say that you are lying.

                        Demagogy. My grandfather received workdays, not money. For workdays he received grain, not money. Go to the city and buy a TV for workdays or grain.


                        My grandfather received a salary in money and for the same workdays. And you still do not see the difference between the concepts of "time tracking" and "wages".

                        Even on kibbutzim they paid with live money and this was called remuneration of labor, and on collective farms there was an in kind payment. Feudalism. Here it is true. Do you want to leave the collective farm then will pay for the ticket at the station?


                        As already said - a lie, from beginning to end. Money was paid to peasants on workdays.

                        Exactly. The presence of nuclear weapons with a hungry population does not make the country a superpower.


                        Well, yes, they all argued that there were two superpowers in the world - the United States and the USSR. And here he is.
                        And about the hungry population, it's you again about propaganda.

                        And the fact that there is constantly talk about him? By your own analogy.


                        The analogy about Hitler is with you, dear. Therefore, I do not need to attribute my fantasies to me.

                        Direct: the same as modern Russia and the Russia of the Rimanov dynasty.


                        Oh how! Something I don’t remember, that Russia would interrupt its existence and other peoples live on its territory.

                        And there is such a country as Macedonia. Only now it has nothing to do with Macedonia since the time of Philip 2 and Alexander the Great. Here with Israel is about (!) The same picture.
                      24. -1
                        4 September 2015 09: 15
                        Quote: MMX
                        On the issue of faith - this is not for me, this is to the temple. I operate on the facts. And they say that you are lying.

                        Speculation. And about salaries (they didn’t pay money) and about passports. See the links above.

                        Quote: MMX
                        My grandfather received a salary in money and for the same workdays. And you still do not see the difference between the concepts of "time tracking" and "wages".

                        Did your grandfather have a private jet? It's just that none of the collective farmers received money, like passports, but your grandfather had everything. But the collective farmer was who else?

                        Quote: MMX
                        As already said - a lie, from beginning to end. Money was paid to peasants on workdays.

                        No. Paid in kind. Learn the materiel.

                        Quote: MMX
                        Well, yes, they all argued that there were two superpowers in the world - the United States and the USSR. And here he is.
                        And about the hungry population, it's you again about propaganda

                        Show photos of store shelves? queues for bread? wink

                        Quote: MMX
                        Oh how! Something I don’t remember, that Russia would interrupt its existence and other peoples live on its territory.

                        They still live other nations. About 200. Yes, and always lived. Under the Tatar-Mongol yoke, Russia, too, EMIP was not one or two years. Rumor has it for 200 years.

                        Quote: MMX
                        Here with Israel is about (!) The same picture.

                        The capital is Jerusalem, the Hebrew language, the Knesset has 120 members, the religion of Judaism ... Oh, no king. Duc and you do not. laughing Only here you are in 1917 all previous laws repealed. They broke the legitimate sequence, so to speak. In Israel, partially applicable laws are in force 2000 years ago.
                      25. MMX
                        0
                        12 August 2015 07: 07
                        Let him tell about tens of thousands of "advisers" from the Council of Deputies who fought against it


                        Take more! Millions! Millions of advisers! .. Have you seen enough Indian films?

                        So don’t understand. Russia, even with Georgia, is not at war, but laughter about Japan in general.


                        Yes, we have other problems. Another situation. We somehow all have to confront the very, very ... Who is arguing somehow.

                        Both America and the Soviet of Deputies and Japan have already taxed China and Europe. Survived. And we live better than some. You do not worry about us. The war is won not by weapons, but by soldiers.


                        Yes, I’m for Israel and I’m not worried. It’s somehow even for me: it exists, and for God's sake, let it succeed. Well, it will cease to exist - I won’t be happy, but I won’t be sure to get drunk with grief.
                        Israel is a dependent country from an external source. If the source is very angry, then the problems of Israel will increase many times, to say the least.
                        Well, a soldier is certainly the main value and strength. That's just what he will fight in conditions of real isolation, the question is big ...
                      26. 0
                        12 August 2015 02: 11
                        Quote: professor
                        The Germans will enter, put the Japanese. It’s also like a good diesel, right?
                        By the way, Israel has been under sanctions for more than 60 years.

                        Professor, the question is a little off topic, but still ... Do you know (not necessarily personally) your compatriot Jacob Kedmi? If so, how do you feel?
      2. +1
        11 August 2015 17: 16
        It depends on what kind of battle, if fire support is one thing, if a breakthrough of the enemy’s defense is another, well, if banditry is the third in the operational scope of the breakthrough.
        And generally it is not necessary to juggle between how much you can shoot and whether it can, not seriously.
      3. +1
        11 August 2015 19: 54
        Quote: professor
        In your opinion, in a modern battle, will a tank have time to fire at least 10 shells?

        With 6-8 rounds per minute, the firing rate, why not? Already one and a half to two minutes, he can hold out on the battlefield ...
  9. 0
    11 August 2015 13: 31
    In modifications the devil will break his leg, but I thought that only with us everything is complicated with this. The Germans are not far behind)
    One question: they do not remove rubber pads from the tracks at all? What's the catch?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. gjv
      +3
      11 August 2015 17: 01
      Quote: Sukhoi
      they do not remove rubber linings from the tracks at all? What's the catch?

      Rubber cushions on the tracks are installed so as not to spoil the asphalt of highways, of which they have plenty. These pillows are removable in principle, but they can be removed "broke", which often leads to such consequences.

      This is the Austrian tankers from the highway turned bravo to the right

      the Bundeswehr noted that the Leopards are not very suitable for work in mountainous areas in northern Afghanistan: they will not be able to be used for patrolling, they will not be able to pass through the narrow streets of Afghan villages, and local bridges simply cannot withstand their weight of 60 tons.
      1. 0
        11 August 2015 17: 50
        Quote: gjv
        This is the Austrian tankers from the highway turned bravo to the right

        So they also flew the truck. Is this an ordinary case for all tanks or a feature of Leo?
      2. 0
        14 August 2015 21: 41
        That’s the question, but where do they fight?
    3. gjv
      0
      11 August 2015 17: 07
      Quote: Sukhoi
      In modifications the devil will break his leg, but I thought that only with us everything is complicated with this

      Not very difficult for them. The main modifications are sequentially in order of numbers. The rest is the wish of national generals to replace some elements of equipment (sights, NVD, radio stations, etc.) and simply add the letters of the designation of the corresponding country.
      1. 0
        11 August 2015 17: 32
        Quote: gjv
        The rest is the wish of national generals for the replacement of some elements of equipment

        I actually meant these national versions.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. gjv
          0
          11 August 2015 18: 14
          Quote: Sukhoi
          I actually meant these national versions.

          There is an interesting "international" version of 2A5 - Leopard 2 PSO for urban combat conditions.

          1. EMES 15 is Leopard's main optical sight. Its function is to calculate the range to the target and aim the gun.
          2. Panoramic periscope sight of the commander PERI-R17A2 day / night vision. Combined with a thermal imaging channel.
          3. The FERO-Z18 gunner’s optical sight is mounted coaxially
          4. Charger hatch
          5. The commander’s hatch with an observation device
          6. Optical driver observation device
          7. Two optical surveillance devices on the driver's hatch.
          8. Coaxial machine gun 7,62 mm MG3
          9. Monitoring devices of the remote combat module FLW 200 with a 12,7-mm machine gun
          1. 0
            11 August 2015 18: 30
            Quote: gjv
            6. Optical driver observation device

            A driver observation device on the tower? Not a typo?
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. gjv
              +1
              11 August 2015 20: 29
              Quote: Sukhoi
              A driver observation device on the tower? Not a typo?

              Electron-optical converter, the image is displayed on the screen. And there may also be a set of digital video cameras with image output to the monitors of all crew members, from four sides, including a rear view camera. Here is the place of the driver.

              And the PSO driver also has a bulldozer for raking barricades.
            3. 0
              12 August 2015 19: 22
              Quote: Sukhoi
              Quote: gjv
              6. Optical driver observation device

              A driver observation device on the tower? Not a typo?

              I think this is optics loader. On our T-55-62, the loader had a full periscope, they could be looked in any direction + up and down.
              Additional eyes for the tank are not superfluous.
    4. 0
      11 August 2015 17: 12
      Ride a little, trawls mostly ride. The resource of the tank is however expensive.
  10. +1
    11 August 2015 17: 08
    But why in the photo do our tanks lift the barrel at 45 degrees into the sky - and in foreign tanks the trunk is 90% parallel to the ground?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. gjv
      +3
      11 August 2015 18: 04
      Quote: Shtynsky Dwarf
      But why in the photo do our tanks lift the barrel at 45 degrees into the sky - and in foreign tanks the trunk is 90% parallel to the ground?

      ... The chief designer, very pleased, brightening his face, already took a colored pencil in order to approve the drawing with a clear signature. But his pencil suddenly froze, and a shadow fell over his face. The stylus poked into the muzzle of the gun.
      - Does the barrel go beyond the dimensions of the tank?
      And as if an electric shock jerked Metelin. Yes, there is no doubt - the projection of the trunk when the position is “forward” crosses the front line of the hull. This means that, overcoming, for example, a vertical wall, the tank will hit it not with the forehead of the hull, but with a gun barrel, which is not designed for this. And going down, say, into a ravine, it can rest against the ground with its long trunk. What harmony is there ?! The pinkish light, in which the future was so pleasantly seen, disappeared, Metelin clearly saw the dull winter twilight, his gray blueprint, dull whitening on the table, the tired, mundane preoccupied face of Mikhail Ilyich.
      “This is some kind of obsession,” he grinned evilly. - Again, a dead end!
      - Well, why so soon - a dead end? - calmly retorted Koshkin. - We will think with you, see what can be done.
      - We'll have to abandon the long barrel, leave the old gun.
      - Need to think. A long barrel is an increase in the initial velocity of the projectile, and therefore, armor penetration. Arguing logically, we can predict that in the future the barrels of tank guns will become even longer.
      - Hardly. There is probably the same impasse as with a wheel drive.
      - We refused the wheel drive correctly. It is unpromising for tanks. But you can’t say about the long-barreled gun, ”Mikhail Ilyich did not agree. - Increased armor penetration - the main path of development of tank weapons. Here we must look for a way out. Let's think, Sasha, at least until the morning. The morning is wiser than the evening.
      “Think not, but the situation is hopeless!” - decided Metelin. But, having returned to his compartment, he nevertheless engaged in calculations and, by one in the morning, established an interesting fact: at the maximum elevation angle, the trunk almost does not go beyond the dimensions. Hence the proposal - to lock the gun in a marching position when the trunk is given the maximum elevation angle.
      In the morning, Metelin hurried to the chief’s office. Mikhail Ilyich looked peppy, joyfully excited.
      - Look, Sasha! He said, pulling a sheet of pencil drawing toward him. - It seems that we will overcome this fortress.
      In the figure, Metelin saw a tank with a very long gun barrel turned back and supported by a stand mounted on the aft armor plate. The trunk resembled a rather thick log.
      “The gunners are pulling their guns back with their barrel,” Mikhail Ilyich explained. “Why don't we follow suit?” In this case, there can be no restrictions either on the length of the barrel or on the caliber! And deploying the cannon in a firing position with a good electric drive is not a problem.
      - Great offer, Mikhail Ilyich. Better than mine.
      - What about you? - lively, with interest asked Koshkin. - Well, lay it out.
      Acquainted with the calculation, he cheerfully said:
      - Well, you see - the devil is not so terrible as he is painted. I am for your offer. A cannon with a barrel raised up like a spear is even beautiful. Prepare the stopper drawing in a marching manner. In this form, everything will go like clockwork, even our enemies will bite their tongue.
      1. 0
        11 August 2015 20: 33
        Thanks for the cultural tour. However, on all foreign tanks, the cannon protrudes significantly in front of the hull. Maybe it's just a mod? Or tradition? On the other hand, if there is a stabilizer, even if the body enters a ditch, the trunk will remain in a horizontal position without danger of burying itself in an obstacle. Although if you really drive into the wall, then the trunk pointing upward into it will not bite. But where does it happen that on a march they enter the walls?
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. gjv
      0
      11 August 2015 18: 24
      Quote: Shtynsky Dwarf
      But why in the photo do our tanks lift the barrel at 45 degrees into the sky - and in foreign tanks the trunk is 90% parallel to the ground?

      In general, on our modern tanks, the cannon can be locked in three positions.
      Yes, and NATO sometimes turn up 45.



      However, they lift the gun by a hydraulic cylinder, so they often save a hydraulic resource - when the gun is horizontal, the hydraulic cylinder is not filled in its initial state.
      1. gjv
        +1
        11 August 2015 19: 59
        Quote: gjv
        In general, on our modern tanks, the cannon can be locked in three positions.

  11. +2
    11 August 2015 21: 47
    And what about this very beautiful 2 Leopard?
    In WHAT salt?
    What did the German engineers do there?
    Why 4 crew member?
    How will he fight in the mud with such a weight?
    (I quickly remember the last modification for 70 tons)
    There is such a wonderful book "Tigers in the Mud"
    Shaw as be hints.
  12. +1
    11 August 2015 22: 08
    Nasovat in the electronics tank - of course you can, with excess.
    How will all this work after the first hit in the body ???
    Spawn caviar? Game over?
    1. 0
      12 August 2015 10: 36
      Tanks are not equipped with conventional monitors and equipment.
      1. 0
        12 August 2015 11: 26
        Vadim I guess
        BUT how not to strengthen COMPLEX equipment it remains difficult and vulnerable
        Now imagine a sabot projectile beats into the body
        It does not penetrate BUT dynamic loads are ...
  13. +1
    11 August 2015 22: 16
    In general, come to Kolyma / Alabino there and talk ...
    hi
  14. +1
    12 August 2015 12: 18
    Quote: professor
    Quote: MMX
    In Soviet times, the source was very angry and nothing, the first in space was Yuri Alekseevich (as for example) ...

    1. Russia is not the USSR.
    2. Gagarin was sent into space, but the roads were never built.
    3. How did you finish the USSR?

    Quote: MMX
    With regard to the current economic situation, it is "bursting at the seams" is somewhat untrue. Recession after fat years. Even strategically useful.

    Double-digit inflation, a decline in production, imports, exports, a rise in price of everything and everything ... Hmm ... Very useful strategic plan. wassat Type the strongest survive.

    Quote: MMX
    And Merkavakh, they forgot to say. Just buy the engines for them from someone and go. In extreme cases, pedals or pull-rod, the "Chariot" burns all the same ...

    The pedal drive is just that. Personally, I love pedaling. As for the tanks, this is an atavism. But if our native Zionist government puts a national priority on "creating a tank engine" (fortunately, it is not so stupid), then I dare to assure you that "its own" diesel will appear. There is a scientific and technical base, as well as personnel. That is, everything is there except the need to create "your" diesel engine.

    Have a nice day. hi

    And what do you not say whose lands you arbitrarily took? What did modern Israel actually begin with? What did you invent? commonplace plagiarism and theft of technology, these are your achievements. Why have you been fighting with all your neighbors for so many years now ?! Do you show your exceptionalism or what? Do not forget, Israel would not exist if the USSR said in those days its weighty NO.
    And about the economy - AT LAST the times "abroad will help us" are coming to an end, an understanding has come ... We will do everything. It just takes time to move on to other rails. Not by hearsay I say, everything is not at all as terrible as you are broadcasting here, but quite the opposite. And there is no crackling in the economy ... crackling in the heads of bureaucrats!
    1. -1
      12 August 2015 14: 28
      Quote: Raven2705
      And what do you not say whose lands you arbitrarily took?

      He took Judah from the Jews, Samaria from the Samaritans.

      Quote: Raven2705
      What did modern Israel actually begin with?

      From the congress in Basel.

      Quote: Raven2705
      What did you invent?

      Before us, Marconi invented the radio, and Edison a light bulb. Since then, we are on the little things ...

      Quote: Raven2705
      Do not forget, Israel would not exist if the USSR said in those days its weighty NO.

      ... and there would still be a mandated Palestine. laughing

      Quote: Raven2705
      We will all do it.

      Good luck to you.

      Quote: Raven2705
      And there is no cod in the economy ... a bang in the heads of bureaucrats!

      Drop by the nearest store.
      1. 0
        12 August 2015 15: 04
        Quote: professor
        Drop by the nearest store.

        I go there every day, everything is normal.
        Quote: professor
        Before us, Marconi invented the radio, and Edison a light bulb. Since then, we are on the little things ...

        I agree about the sweetheart, about Radio - Popov invented.
        Quote: professor

        What did modern Israel actually begin with?
        From the congress in Basel.

        This is only a formality.

        Quote: professor
        ... and there would still be a mandated Palestine.

        And there would be peace in the Middle East.
        Quote: professor
        Good luck to you.

        Thank you.
        Quote: professor
        He took Judah from the Jews, Samaria from the Samaritans.

        Subject conversation, PPC is simple. Do not teach others how to live and you will be happy.
        1. +1
          12 August 2015 15: 09
          Quote: Raven2705
          I go there every day, everything is normal.

          Ask a retired neighbor normal or not. It's like a litmus test.

          Quote: Raven2705
          I agree about the sweetheart, about Radio - Popov invented.

          Popov? Seriously? wink

          Quote: Raven2705
          This is only a formality.

          No. Formality is a vote at the UN.

          Quote: Raven2705
          And there would be peace in the Middle East.

          And all over the world. And Suni Shiites, Protestant Catholics, and Ukrainians La-la-la would love. wassat

          Quote: Raven2705
          Do not teach others how to live and you will be happy.

          I really didn’t know that everyone except the teachers was happy. I will consider.
    2. 0
      12 August 2015 19: 43
      Quote: Raven2705
      What did you invent?

      The Israelis invented - EPILATOR and that's it laughing
      For them, this is the height of perfection and an essential thing.
  15. 0
    12 August 2015 15: 40
    Quote: professor
    Popov? Seriously?

    Really!
    Quote: professor
    No. Formality is a vote at the UN.

    Everything was decided long before the congress.
    Quote: professor
    I really didn’t know that everyone except the teachers was happy. I will consider.

    Teachers do not teach life, but sciences (writing, reading, etc.) It is strange that they did not know. I will consider.
    Quote: professor
    And all over the world. And Suni Shiites, Protestant Catholics, and Ukrainians La-la-la would love.

    Did not love. But they would not have fought their whole history. Do you like living in a state of war?
    Quote: professor
    Ask a retired neighbor normal or not. It's like a litmus test.

    A litmus test of what? In the US and EU countries, a huge public debt, exorbitant. In the USA, unemployment goes off the scale, millions live on benefits - is everything normal there? Nothing cracking at the seams? What is the litmus test showing?
    1. 0
      12 August 2015 17: 57
      Quote: Raven2705
      Really!

      So be it, although Marlun Lumis officially registered a patent for the invention of radio 22 before Popov's invention of radio. But we will not let this fact darken the joys of Radio Day. laughing
      Improvement in telegraphing US 129971 A

      Quote: Raven2705
      Everything was decided long before the congress.

      Right How I forgot about the fact that the Almighty gave this land to Abraham and Jacob.

      Quote: Raven2705
      Teachers do not teach life, but sciences (writing, reading, etc.) It is strange that they did not know. I will consider

      In my time, they taught life. What is good and what is bad. Not those times now however.

      Quote: Raven2705
      Did not love. But they would not have fought their whole history. Do you like living in a state of war?

      So they are fighting regardless of us. And by the way, we want to live in peace and never attack anyone first. Likbez.

      Quote: Raven2705
      A litmus test of what? In the US and EU countries, a huge public debt, exorbitant. In the USA, unemployment goes off the scale, millions live on benefits - is everything normal there? Nothing cracking at the seams? What is the litmus test showing?

      The way old people live is a litmus test of society.

      PS
      When do school holidays end? wink
      1. +1
        12 August 2015 19: 33
        Quote: professor
        So be it, although Marlun Lumis officially registered a patent for the invention of radio 22 before Popov's invention of radio. But we will not let this fact darken the joys of Radio Day. laughing
        Improvement in telegraphing US 129971 A
        We remember about the patent when the radio is patented, and about the works of Popov, where it is all described in the open press three years before the patent, we are modestly silent.
        What can not be taken away from Marconi is the popularization of radio. Popov, on the other hand, worked for the military department, where with popularization for the people he didn’t.
        1. 0
          12 August 2015 19: 42
          Quote: Bad_gr
          We remember about the patent when the radio is patented, and about the works of Popov, where it is all described in the open press three years before the patent, we are modestly silent.

          Right Three years before the publication of the patent, Popov was only 13 years old, but already worked in the military department and invented the radio. good
          1. +1
            12 August 2015 21: 18
            I am writing about what I read about the debate Popov-Marconi.

            In general, Wik says:
            "The first patent for wireless communication was received in 1872 by Mahlon Loomis, who claimed in 1866 that he had discovered a method of wireless communication; in Germany, the creator of radio is considered Heinrich Hertz, 1888, in the USA - David Hughes, 1878 , as well as Thomas Edison, 1875, patent 1885, in the USA and a number of Balkan countries - Nikola Tesla, 1891, in Belarus - Yakov (Sarmat-Yakov-Sigismund) Ottonovich Narkevich-Iodku (Belarusian Yakub Narkevich-Yodka), 1890, in France - Edouard Branly, 1890, in India - Jagadish Chandra Boche, 1894 (or 1895), in England - Oliver Joseph Lodge, 1894, in Brazil - Landel de Moore, 1893-1894.

            The Italian engineer Guglielmo Marconi (1895) [2] [3] is considered to be the creator of the first successful system of information exchange using radio waves (radio telegraphy) in a number of countries.

            In Russia, A. S. Popov [3] [4] is traditionally considered the inventor of wireless telegraphy. In the first experiments on radio communications conducted in a physical office, and then in the garden of the Mines of the officer class, the receiver detected radiation of radio signals sent by the transmitter at a distance of 60 m. May 7, 1895 at a meeting of the Russian Physicochemical Society in St. Petersburg A. S Popov demonstrated the operation of his device, which, in fact, was the first radio receiver in the world. May 7 was the birthday of the radio.

            Further, radio communication was established at a distance of 250 m.Working on his invention, Popov soon achieved a communication range of more than 600 m.Then, during the maneuvers of the Black Sea Fleet in 1899, the scientist established radio communication at a distance of over 20 km, and in 1901 the radio communication range was already 150 km. The new transmitter design played an important role in this. The spark gap was placed in an oscillatory circuit inductively coupled to the transmitting antenna and tuned into resonance with it. Signal registration methods have also changed significantly. In parallel with the call, the telegraph was switched on, which made it possible to automatically record the signals. In 1899, the possibility of receiving signals using a telephone was discovered. At the beginning of 1900, radio communications were successfully used during rescue operations in the Gulf of Finland. With the participation of A. Popov, the introduction of radio communications in the fleet and in the army of Russia began .... "

            By the way, the question is: at what distance did Malon Lumisa transmitter-receiver work?
            in general, where you can read about his invention (a search by surname provides links to Marilyn Monroe and nothing else on the topic)
  16. -1
    13 August 2015 08: 57
    Quote: professor
    A litmus test of what? In the US and EU countries, a huge public debt, exorbitant. In the USA, unemployment goes off the scale, millions live on benefits - is everything normal there? Nothing cracking at the seams? What is the litmus test showing?

    I do not see the answer.
    Quote: professor
    PS
    When do school holidays end?

    Not in the know, it's been a long time.
    Quote: Bad_gr

    In my time, they taught life. What is good and what is bad. Not those times now however.

    Their labors were in vain in your case. wink
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Popov, on the other hand, worked for the military department, where with popularization for the people he didn’t.

    How does this affect technology discovery? Most of the technologies currently in use were discovered by the military one way or another.
  17. +1
    13 August 2015 09: 01
    Quote: Raven2705
    So be it, although Marlun Lumis officially registered a patent for the invention of radio 22 before Popov's invention of radio. But we will not let this fact darken the joys of Radio Day.
    Improvement in telegraphing US 129971 A


    Do the Chinese have a patent for the invention of gunpowder?
  18. 0
    13 August 2015 10: 34
    good article. Thanks for the review of modifications.
  19. +1
    14 August 2015 20: 10
    Quote: Banson
    All the same. The most powerful 120mm gun in 55 calibres.

    "Leopard-2A6 / -A7" has a 120mm smoothbore cannon with a barrel length of 55 clb (Rh 120 / L55), the "Leclerc" has 52 clb. (CN 120-26).
    Quote: Banson
    Automatic loading, which allowed him to make 10 rounds per minute ...

    Defensive fire is not part of the MBT mission range, aimed fire at specific targets is a "large sniper rifle". Probably, the rate of fire with manual loading was found to be satisfactory for shooting immediately and at max. distance (4-6 rds / min), and is directly linked to the speed of the OMS.
    Quote: Banson
    An automatic loader ... made it smaller and lighter than other western tanks ...

    Those. Does the loader and two shells (42 versus 40) make Leo heavier, and two mechanized warheads (22 shots — the machine itself, 18 shots — the drum) made of steel with drives and propellers make Leclerc easier? The internal volume occupied by the loader decreased, respectively, the turret length decreased slightly, the length of the tank is affected by the 6 and 7-wheeled chassis of Leclerc and Leopard-2, respectively (the difference is 0,8 m). The height on the roof of the tower at Leopard-2A1-A4 (52-55t) and Leclerc (57t - Series XXI, 56t - Series 2, 54t - Series 1) is equivalent (2,4m). But the height of the Leopard-2A5-A7 (60-63t) increased due to the additional spaced reservation of the tower roof, this is in addition to a significant increase in armor modules of the forehead and sides of the tower, and the forehead of the hull (only additional booking of this projection of the hull adds 3t), this is a question : who is better armored?
    Quote: Banson
    The reverse question is what is in the LEOPARD that is not in the AMX-56

    Reliability is first of all, except for combat stability, which affects the cost of operation (- as a result), electronic control systems, power plant (dv-la - 2 turbochargers versus 1, and transmission), suspension (torsion bar more reliable than hydropneumatic, although the latter should provide more smooth running) etc. Also significant experience in operating and improving Leopard-2 since 1979, for AMX-56 - since 1993.
    Here, the customer himself compares his preferences and capabilities, but most of the more or less advanced militarily advanced countries, having tested, comparing resource indicators and capabilities, preferred the German car to others, AMX-56 is only the famous Arab state. It is understood that the test results and provided by manufacturers tech. data was not disclosed for reasons of secrecy, except for final decisions and generalized information.
    1. 0
      14 August 2015 22: 46
      Quote: kplayer
      "Leopard-2A6 / -A7" has a 120mm smoothbore cannon with a barrel length of 55 clb (Rh 120 / L55), the "Leclerc" has 52 clb. (CN 120-26).

      If it were the same gun, then, yes, a longer one - more kinetic energy from the projectile. But here Leclerc has his own gun and the numbers are not an indicator. For example, our 2A82 gun with a shorter barrel gives more energy to the projectile than the Leo gun (ours has more pressure in the chamber)
      Quote: kplayer
      But the height of the Leopard-2A5-A7 (60-63t) increased due to the additional spaced reservation of the tower roof, ..........

      Where can I read about it? (on the spaced reservation of the ROOF of Leo's tower)
      Perhaps it’s worth recalling that Leo (like Abrams) has a 165 cm distance in the fighting compartment between the poles and the ceiling of the tower, which is not a plus for the loader to work. In Abrams, for example, the loader of normal growth in the tank can stand at full height only with the hatch open.
      Quote: kplayer
      power plant (dv-la - 2 turbocompressors against 1,
      As I understand it, they compare the Leo engine with the Leclerc engine.
      If according to Leo everything is clear - an ordinary engine with turbochargers, then with Leclerc the situation is more interesting.
      Firstly, he does not have a turbocharger, but a full-fledged turbine pumps air into the engine. The main engine cannot work without it, a turbine without an engine is easy. In addition, the tank’s generator is located exactly on the turbine. If you believe the Ukrainian site, where, after the exercises, the Ukrainian mechanical water describes the operation of this bundle: the main engine runs on a solarium, the turbine runs on kerosene.
  20. +1
    15 August 2015 14: 22
    Quote: Bad_gr
    If it were the same gun, then, yes, a longer one - more kinetic energy from the projectile. But here Leclerc has his own gun and the numbers are not an indicator. For example, our 2A82 gun with a shorter barrel gives more energy to the projectile than the Leo gun (ours has more pressure in the chamber)

    It’s just that Comrade Banson said that the barrel of the cannon of the AMX-56 is 55 klb. Long, instead of 52 klb. The standardization of NATO's 120mm smoothbore guns implies interchangeability of ammunition, with the exception of the British 120mm rifled gun L30 (and L11). And how is the Soviet / Russian 125 mm smoothbore here? these are other guns, a different caliber. For example, the ballistics of domestic 152 mm / L47 barrels of howitzers reach the distances of the NATO barrels of 155 mm / L39, and do not reach the 155 / L45 and 155 / L52 (NATO).
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Where can I read about it? (on the spaced reservation of the ROOF of Leo's tower)

    in the ZVO-magazine (issue, I don’t remember the year), it was said about ext. sheets on the roof (i.e. spaced), and armored modules of the forehead and sides of the tower (i.e. multilayer combined).
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Perhaps it’s worth recalling that Leo (like Abrams) has a 165 cm distance in the fighting compartment between the poles and the ceiling of the tower, which is not a plus for the loader to work. In Abrams, for example, the loader of normal growth in the tank can stand at full height only with the hatch open.

    In general, to load shells (22 kg) is not a plus; the loader works while sitting up, standing up during re-opening, depends on the individual physical and physiological data of the brow, experience (setting of the seat).
    Quote: Bad_gr
    As I understand it, they compare the Leo engine with the Leclerc engine.

    Yeah, in terms of reliability, in d.s. the best and unique are not synonyms.
    Quote: Bad_gr
    Firstly, he does not have a turbocharger, but a full-fledged turbine pumps air into the engine. The main engine cannot work without it, a turbine without an engine is easy. In addition, the tank’s generator is located exactly on the turbine.

    There is precisely a turbocharger with a combustion chamber such as a gas turbine, it also drives a turbocharger, i.e. dv will not work without it. Is not full tank gas turbine, rather, microturbine power supply (microturbogenerator), because It is also a generator drive, regardless of dv-la.
    Quote: Bad_gr
    If you believe the Ukrainian site, where, after the exercises, the Ukrainian mechanical water describes the operation of this bundle: the main engine runs on a solarium, the turbine runs on kerosene.

    Recommended, not otherwise.

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