Military Review

Source: the production of WIG in the Russian Federation will resume after 2020-th

177
In Russia, resumed production of impact wig after 2020 g, told reporter RIA News unnamed representative of the command of the Navy.

Source: the production of WIG in the Russian Federation will resume after 2020-th


According to the interlocutor, earlier in the Russian Federation 2 models of WIG for the armed forces were developed - the “military transport Orlyonok” and the Lun attack airplane with cruise missiles, but these projects were curtailed in 90 due to lack of funding. ” To date, the only sample "Lunya" decommissioned and mothballed in the Caspian Sea.

“The subject of WIG is restored in percussion, that is, as“ Lun ”- the carrier of cruise missiles. Construction should start after 2020 in Nizhny Novgorod, the source said. “The Ministry of Defense issued tactical and technical tasks, and experimental work is currently underway.”

In May, the head of the Morinsformsystem-Agat company, Georgy Antsev, reported that the Central Design Bureau for the SEC named after R.Е. Alekseeva is developing a project for an ekranoplan of the ocean zone with a take-off weight of approximately 500 tons. ”

He noted that "now there is a stage of resetting the Soviet period ..., research and development, modeling, prototyping."

The agency recalls that "an ekranoplan is a high-speed vehicle, something between a heavy aircraft and a light boat," which is capable of flying "within the range of the aerodynamic screen, at a height of up to several meters from the surface of the water or the ground."
Photos used:
Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
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  1. GRDS
    GRDS 29 July 2015 15: 54
    +34
    Wait .... good news! Better late than never!
    1. sichevik
      sichevik 29 July 2015 16: 00
      +35
      Quote: GRDS
      Wait .... good news! Better late than never!

      I agree with you, better late than never. But even earlier - much better. I remember at one time the tests of ekranoplanes in the Caspian brought the amers to a form of stupor. If my memory serves me, they called them "Caspian monsters".
      1. Baikonur
        Baikonur 29 July 2015 16: 02
        +6
        I have only one question for the ekranoplan (educate, who knows) - "And if - a storm?" Disruption of the operation? I do not pretend to be rated, just explain, who knows!
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 08
          +25
          Everything is simple. If there is a storm, the enemy also has a failure of the operation.
          1. Telakh
            Telakh 29 July 2015 16: 14
            +33
            Wing "Lun" could move on the "screen" with sea waves up to six points (with a wave height of up to 4-6 meters)
            1. bastard
              bastard 29 July 2015 16: 29
              +19
              Quote: Telakh
              Wing "Lun" could move on the "screen" with sea waves up to six points (with a wave height of up to 4-6 meters)

              "Eaglet" takes off at wave heights up to 2 meters, including across the wave. Has the ability to go to a gentle bank for landing or loading.

              Flight performance of the Eaglet airborne transport ekranoplan:

              Crew, people 6-8
              Wingspan, m 31.50
              Length, m 58.11
              Height, m ​​16.30
              Wing area, m2 304.60
              Weight, kg
              - empty loaded 120000
              - maximum takeoff 140000
              engine's type
              - starting 2 turbojet engines NK-8-4K
              - marching 1 TVD NK-12MK
              Traction
              - starting, kgf 2 x 10500
              - marching, e.hp 1 x 15000
              The maximum speed, km / h 400
              Cruising speed, km / h 350
              Practical range, km 1500
              Flight height on the screen, m 2-10
              Practical ceiling, m 3000
              Payload: up to 20000 kg
              Armament: "Utes" installation with two 12,7 mm machine guns

              THING!

              1. SOLGA
                SOLGA 29 July 2015 19: 20
                +4
                saw the "Eaglet" on the shore, and "Lun" was standing behind the reeds)
              2. varov14
                varov14 29 July 2015 21: 24
                -10
                And is it worth the garden to groan for the sake of two machine guns, and where are the "tomogavki"?
            2. opus
              opus 30 July 2015 02: 25
              0
              Quote: Telakh
              Wing "Lun" could move on the "screen" with sea waves up to six points (with a wave height of up to 4-6 meters)

              and take off? but with full ammunition?
              -7 points- no airborne flights are conducted; it is also not possible to ensure the operation of material and technical supply vessels
              -5 / 6 points virtually no shooting possible (that artillery, that rocket)
              6 points
              by sea wave heights 2-3 Large waves Waves are piled, ridges break, foam lays in stripes in the wind


              downwind 6 points - strong
              The sea in many places is covered with white ridges. The height of the waves reaches 4x meters, the average height is 3 meters. Wind speed 10,8 - 13,8 m / s. Bending thin tree trunks, and thick tree branches, buzzing telephone wires.
          2. activator
            activator 29 July 2015 16: 17
            +3
            Quote: Wedmak
            Everything is simple. If there is a storm, the enemy also has a failure of the operation.

            Is it that the sixth fleet will turn around and sail home? And if the ekranoplan catches a storm on the way?
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 22
              +14
              Is it that the sixth fleet will turn around and sail home?

              In a storm, more than 5 points (if I'm not mistaken) are not combat ready. Neither launch a rocket nor launch a torpedo. Again, the weather forecast is driving.
              and if the ekranoplan meets a storm on the way?

              What suddenly? At a speed of 300-400 km / h and with meteorological reports, it will quietly bypass the storm.
              1. Grabberxnumx
                Grabberxnumx 29 July 2015 16: 35
                +2
                Question to experts:
                That is, an aircraft carrier formation, for example, of our potential "friends" in a stormy area is incapable of combat, so it keeps radio silence so as not to be sunk?
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 42
                  +4
                  That is, an aircraft carrier formation, for example, of our potential "friends" in a stormy area is incapable of combat

                  It generally tries to circumvent the storm. But if you hit, then it seems to depend on the strength of the storm. Radio silence or not, in my opinion there is no difference, all the same, the striking forces will not be able to complete the task through the storm. Is that nuclear weapons do not care about the weather.
                  1. jjj
                    jjj 29 July 2015 17: 14
                    +8
                    And under the water the boat does not shake
                    1. Wedmak
                      Wedmak 29 July 2015 17: 25
                      -3
                      And under the water the boat does not shake

                      So what? The use of weapons is also impossible, the boat, when aiming, is guided by the noise of the propellers and units of the ship, and if the source of this noise is muffled by the noise of the waves and it jumps over them like a mad chip, what kind of aiming can we talk about? A torpedo or a rocket. The rocket will generally "break" immediately upon leaving the water.
                      1. varov14
                        varov14 29 July 2015 21: 46
                        0
                        I would have acted easier with our "friends", flew past the flotilla in some worn-out "whaler", helped with a pen and left the mines along the way, "with deep respect, merry sailing." Cheaper and no monsters. The filling can also be nuclear, so that the road is reliably one way. If the ship sees a mine, then it is necessary to come up with something so that he does not see, unfortunately I have not read anything about mines.
                      2. opus
                        opus 30 July 2015 02: 40
                        +3
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        The use of weapons is also impossible, when aiming, the boat focuses on the noise of the propellers and components of the ship,

                        nonsense, perfectly distinguishable, spurious noises increase. Yes, but not critical
                        Quote: Wedmak
                        The rocket will generally "break" immediately upon leaving the water.

                        this is true only for the KR complex P-5
                        (according to the project 4-6 points, excitement, wind speed up to 10m / s, speed up to 15 knots)
                        In fact, up to 3 points and up to 10 nodes.

                        KRK "Uran-E" can be used when the sea is rough with a force of 5-6 points.

                        ICBMs "according to FIG" up to 6-7 points (and I think that even higher)

                        Tula - capable of launching 16 intercontinental missiles from a depth of 55 meters right on the go, with sea waves in 6-7 points.

                        Trident-2 D5 was fired at 3-4

                        at P-21 the speed at the exit from the water was 30 m / s = 108 km / h,now guess higher
                        Polaris has a mine exit speed of more than 50 m / s


                        because of the virtually uncontrolled and unstable movement in the water, the rocket comes to the surface, having large pitch and yaw angles, up to 60 and more degrees.

                        To compensate for this, exit sensors are provided, when triggered, the missile stabilization machine starts to work, thus monitoring the parameters of the missile movement (see, for example, Ballistic missiles of Russian submarines (Selected articles), UDC: 629.762.2, Edition 2, (amended. State Rocket Center "Design Bureau named after Academician VP Makeev", Miass, 1997, pp. 113, 119).





                        40-70 a ton of plough on a draft from 120ts, with an ever-increasing bark (mass falls) is not so easy to dump, even during a storm


                        Well, what about "breaks" - of course, complete nonsense.
                        During the flight, there are such overloads (axial, lateral, torque) that the effect of the high-speed flow of the medium at V = 30 m / s, acting on
                      3. jjj
                        jjj 30 July 2015 12: 52
                        0
                        Yes, let's also take into account that the rocket exits in a "bubble"
                      4. opus
                        opus 30 July 2015 14: 30
                        0
                        Quote: jjj
                        Yes, let's also take into account that the rocket exits in a "bubble"

                        Well this (bubble) will save a little.
                        After a breakthrough of the surface tension film, the bubble makes a bump in the atmosphere, namely, the wind load begins to act
                2. shuhartred
                  shuhartred 29 July 2015 21: 37
                  +1
                  Quote: Grabber2000
                  That is, an aircraft carrier formation, for example, of our potential "friends" in a stormy area is incapable of combat, so it keeps radio silence so as not to be sunk?

                  Airplanes will not be able to take off one fig, so they are not capable of fighting. And a submarine can sink them, she doesn't care about a storm.
              2. varov14
                varov14 29 July 2015 21: 29
                -3
                So in the ocean rostors of 1500 km these are cat's tears, kerosene is not enough. Beautiful shit, but painfully voracious.
            2. shuhartred
              shuhartred 29 July 2015 21: 35
              +2
              Quote: activator
              Is it that the sixth fleet will turn around and sail home? And if the ekranoplan catches a storm on the way?

              EMNIP "Lun" can go up to 400 meters from the "screen" like an airplane. What is the problem to rise 40 meters and be higher than the wave? Radars won't see one devil. Or it can land on water and move like a ship. The storm will end again will take off. In general, should meteorologists work or not?
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 July 2015 22: 13
                +3
                Quote: shuhartred
                EMNIP "Lun" can move from the "screen" up to 400 meters like an airplane.

                The only question is how long it will last at this height, and with a stormy wind.
                Quote: shuhartred
                What is the problem to rise 40 meters and be higher than the wave?

                The problem is that the ekranoplan is relatively good only while the ground effect is active. And without it, it turns into a HORRIBLE plane. Therefore, your question is equivalent to something like the following: "Why not some Boeing 747 thread during a storm not go down and fly at an altitude of 40 meters above the waves ?!"
                Would you like to be a passenger of this Boeing? Me not.
                1. shuhartred
                  shuhartred 29 July 2015 23: 37
                  +2
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  The only question is how long it will last at this height, and with a stormy wind.

                  To be honest, no idea. But I think it's enough to either complete the task or get out of the storm zone.
                  Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                  Therefore, your question is equivalent to something like the following: "Why not some Boeing 747 thread during a storm not go down and fly at an altitude of 40 meters above the waves ?!"
                  Would you like to be a passenger of this Boeing? Me not.

                  If you are given a combat mission, then where will you go. And Boeing is not a combat aircraft. The ekranoplan is half plane, half ship. Even if he flops into the water, he will not drown. And Boeing?
                  1. Aljavad
                    Aljavad 30 July 2015 02: 55
                    0
                    The ekranoplan is half plane, half ship. Even if he flops into the water, he will not drown.


                    They are designed according to aviation strength standards, not marine ones.

                    If he flops 3-5 meters from his family - maybe nothing, he can stand it. And with 10 and it will be bad.

                    During the tests, the commander was frightened by the descent of the car and, out of flying habit, took over the steering wheel. The car lost the screen and fell flat. The main engine tail - came off. Well, on board, apart from the high commission, was Alekseev himself. He pushed the commander of the ship and brought the device to the parking lot on the booster. He also boasted to the commission: what a strong apparatus! Without a tail, maybe!

                    But these are words so that the topic is not closed. And so - thank God, there was no excitement at sea.
              2. Starley from the south
                Starley from the south 30 July 2015 01: 21
                0
                Quote: shuhartred
                In general, should meteorologists work or not?

                Any, even the most accurate forecast will not be 100-percent. Random processes come into play. which can not be taken into account in principle. You can bring the accuracy of the forecast, or, as meteorologists say, the accuracy of the forecast, to some limiting value 70 - 80% depending on the period. No best supercomputers and hourly meteorological measurements will help to achieve a better result.
                1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                  Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 July 2015 20: 21
                  0
                  Quote: Starley from the South
                  It is possible to bring the accuracy of the forecast, or, as meteorologists say, the accuracy of the forecast, up to some limiting value of 70 - 80%, depending on the period.

                  On this occasion, I recall:
                  The Second World War. Molotov's flight to the USA is planned. Meteorologists report personally to Comrade Stalin. In principle, the forecast is not bad, but ...
                  - What is the probability of a forecast? - asks the generalissimo
                  - 40%, Comrade Stalin!
                  - Forty percent ... Not enough ... - Vissarionitch thought, and suddenly smiled:
                  - And you predict on the contrary, there will be a probability of 60%
            3. Starley from the south
              Starley from the south 30 July 2015 01: 11
              +3
              Quote: activator
              and if the ekranoplan meets a storm on the way?

              Since ekranoplanes do not have the range of aircraft, this is not necessary. They are defensive weapons. But if they put a KR type "Caliber" on them and send them to the Arctic, but none of the "partners" would dare to swim closer to us than 1000 km.
            4. leon1204id
              leon1204id 31 July 2015 17: 13
              0
              And if there is a storm front in front of Boeing? laughing
          3. Koloradovatnik
            Koloradovatnik 29 July 2015 16: 20
            +24
            Source: the production of WIG in the Russian Federation will resume after 2020-th

            And the budget of the Russian Federation will pull the release of such giants? And the state of the industry?
            Max. Looney take-off weight - 370 t.
            For comparison: the maximum take-off weight of the Tu-160 - 275 t.
            And max. take-off weight of the projected transport wig - 500 t.
            And what about the engine? NK-87 will leave or will develop a new one? In any case, it must first be put on stream.
            In general, there are a lot of questions.

            In general, the Ministry of Defense recently plunged into full manilovshchina.
            It plans, offhand: several AUG, 50 Tu-160М2 at once.
            Where, on what means to produce all this, where to get specialists from - the military department is silent.
            1. Wedmak
              Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 30
              +8
              In general, there are a lot of questions.

              And mainly on the budget and "who will do it all."
              In general, the Ministry of Defense recently plunged into full manilovshchina.

              Do not say: PAK YES, Tu-160M2, PAK FA, IL-496, heavy tanker based on IL-96-300, IL-38N, Armata, Kurganets, Boomerang, robotics, drones, Boreas, Ash, Sarmat, new reconnaissance ships, Barguzin, Ratnik, new assault rifles, new missile weapons.
              What else have I forgot ... and yes, new jet engines!
              1. Koloradovatnik
                Koloradovatnik 29 July 2015 16: 45
                +1
                Everything you said, with the exception of the first three points, is real and necessary projects.
                About the first three points:
                1. The serial production of the T-50 has been postponed indefinitely, the site has already had news.
                2. The production of 50 of the White Swans of the Russian Federation is really beyond its power, perhaps by 2050.
                3. If we are going to produce the Tu-160 in series, then we will not pull the PAK YES.
                Let me remind you: in Soviet times, the predecessor of KAZ-KAPO with uninterrupted funding, the lack of personnel shortage produced no more than 4 aircraft per year.
                Now KAZ's capabilities allow to release 1-2 strategists a year, not more.
                Those. or the production of Tu-160, or PAK YES. But nothing - both together.
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 56
                  +2
                  these are real and necessary projects.

                  I do not argue. Just in the light of a heap of announced projects, some of which are very expensive and high-tech, the question arises, who will do it and for what money. Yes, I saw that young people still go to engineers, go to design bureaus, to factories. But the scope of production is enormous.
                  By the way, I forgot about the Hangar, the cosmodrome and plans for landing on Mars. Moreover, all these plans, projects and developments promise to reach the finish line for 2020-2025 years. And these are quite serious state plans. A five-year shift of individual projects in this case will yield little.
                  1. Jager
                    Jager 29 July 2015 17: 19
                    0
                    Statements are so that potential "friends" do not sleep!)) And to master at least a third of the projects is already good.
                2. ancient
                  ancient 29 July 2015 17: 50
                  +4
                  Quote: Colorado
                  Now KAZ's capabilities allow to release 1-2 strategists a year, not more.


                  Release???? belay Yes, they..KVR with difficulty on the 1st 2 do .. and you .. release wassat
                3. varov14
                  varov14 29 July 2015 22: 04
                  +2
                  You have to live according to your conscience, share your national wealth with the people, not to persevere in front of the world community, but to behave like kittens - Vaska listens and eats. And so either some, in the end, or others crash.
                4. Starley from the south
                  Starley from the south 30 July 2015 01: 29
                  +2
                  You do not take into account one detail - many of these projects will tighten the citizen, the same ekranoplans. And the citizen will immediately begin to make a profit. In any case, they are striving for this, most importantly, to organize everything normally, to introduce military developments in a civilian time, etc.
              2. FID
                FID 29 July 2015 18: 21
                +3
                Quote: Wedmak
                Il-496, heavy tanker based on Il-96-300,

                Il-476 - is there, Il-496? A tanker based on the Il-96-400, not the -300. I apologize...
                1. Wedmak
                  Wedmak 29 July 2015 19: 56
                  +1
                  IL-476 - is there, IL-496? The tanker is based on IL-96-400, not -300.

                  I made a mistake with the numbers, yes ... sometimes I confuse.
            2. veksha50
              veksha50 29 July 2015 16: 43
              +2
              Quote: Colorado
              In general, the Ministry of Defense recently plunged into full manilovshchina.
              It plans, offhand: several AUG, 50 Tu-160М2 at once.
              Where, on what means to produce all this, where to get specialists from - the military department is silent.



              And if you don’t try to do it, then they will eat us ...

              PS Sometimes you can scare the sworn "friends" ... And then - how it goes ...
              1. Koloradovatnik
                Koloradovatnik 29 July 2015 17: 07
                +5
                Veksha50.

                You are right, but at the moment it is most reasonable to maintain the current fleet of our strategic aviation until 2040-50, and the Tu-160 - longer.
                By this time, it will be possible to build 30-50 Tu-160M2s, new hypersonic cruise strategic missiles will arrive in time, and then the quantitative "shortage" will completely compensate for the qualitative superiority.
                In particular, it will be possible to avoid being drawn into the "arms race".
            3. ancient
              ancient 29 July 2015 17: 45
              +5
              Quote: Colorado
              In general, the Ministry of Defense recently plunged into full manilovshchina.


              And if not fellow and promises of "sweet life", then people will begin to think or become thoughtful, especially after looking into the refrigerator.
              And so .... Uryaya and "spectacle" maybe and that's it .. "bundle" wassat
            4. xtur
              xtur 29 July 2015 21: 35
              0
              > And the budget of the Russian Federation will pull the release of such giants? And the state of the industry?
              > Max. takeoff weight of Loonie - 370 tons.
              > For comparison, the maximum take-off weight of the Tu-160 is 275 tons.
              > A max. the take-off weight of the projected transport ekranoplanes is 500 tons.

              A CM was built in the bearded 60s, and the entire USSR built a comparable load-carrying capacity in 20 years; the entire USSR built it - that means even large electric drives are quite cheap
              1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 July 2015 22: 19
                0
                Quote: xtur
                KM was built in the bearded 60s, and the entire USSR built a comparable load-carrying capacity in 20 years

                Sorry, but you are wrong. KM made in the 60s was tested tested but not tested, unlike the flying Mriya. KM installed 10 engines of 13 kgf - this is, in fact, the Su-000 engine! How much did it cost in the 27s, I’m even afraid to guess.
                1. xtur
                  xtur 29 July 2015 22: 45
                  -1
                  > CM made in the 60s was tested tested but not tested, in contrast to the flying Mriya. The KM is equipped with 10 engines of 13 kgf each - in fact, this is the Su-000 engine! How much it cost in the 27s, I'm even afraid to guess.


                  To consider Mriya a worked-out airplane, despite the fact that it is the only one - is a big stretch. Therefore, in exactly the same sense in which Mriya flies, KM flew.
                  In general, it is quite obvious that for a cost comparable to the cost of Mriya, in the 60s KM would have forced not only to fly, but also to swim under water :-)

                  That attitude towards him, which clearly indicates very modest costs. I repeat - on my knees, 20 years before Mriya, they did something flying, with the GP of this Mriya.

                  In the 60s, the USSR could not pull Mriya-level programs between things. To assert the opposite is to deliberately mislead oneself, and others.
                  1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 29 July 2015 23: 13
                    +1
                    Quote: xtur
                    To consider Mriya a worked-out airplane, despite the fact that it is the only one - is a big stretch. Therefore, in exactly the same sense in which Mriya flies, KM flew.

                    You are comparing KM and Mriya. Do you know how much Mriya costs? Do you know how much KM costs? Sorry, but for now I am only reading guesses. It seems to you that Mriya is much more expensive, and that’s it.
                    I repeat to you - KM had 10 engines, compared with which the Mig-25 engines - ugh. It is not cheap
                    Quote: xtur
                    I repeat - on my knees, 20 years before Mriya, they did something flying, with the GP of the same Mriya.

                    Firstly, to GP Mriya CM as to China on four-wheel drive through Paris. Mriya can transport 150 tons to the intercontinental range. MK had (estimated) range of 1500 km (and it is not known with what payload)
                    If someone builds a crane that can lift 250 tons, will you also say that he has the same payload as Mriya?
                    Quote: xtur
                    In the 60s the USSR could not pull programs of the Mriya level between things

                    one more unfounded statement.
                    1. xtur
                      xtur 30 July 2015 16: 31
                      0
                      > You are comparing KM and Mriya. Do you know how much Mriya is worth? Do you know how much KM costs? Sorry, but so far I'm only reading guesses.

                      How much does the airbus cost, comparable with Mriya GP, is approximately clear. How much is Ruslan, too. the rest is a matter of common sense. Such dissimilar aircraft as KM and Mriyu should be compared at the cost of a GP unit - this is, from a military point of view, the primary characteristics if we consider these devices as platforms for launching the KR. There would be exact figures of cost, I would not have to guess. But even known facts are enough to estimate the cost - if not pretend to be a hose

                      "The dead giant was carried across the Caspian for two weeks." - so to the victim of a similar accident Airbas, or Mriya would not be treated. For negligence in relation to material values ​​of this level, everyone would be resigned from work.


                      > Mriya can transport 150 tons over intercontinental range. MK had (calculated) range of 1500 km (and it is not known with what payload)


                      The correct comparison range, to assess the feasibility of the KM is between RTOs, Mriya and Tu-22M3. The USSR had significant firepower on the Tu-22M3, and was ready to pay extra money compared to the RTOs for the mobility of this firepower. if the KM has an acceptable cost, then at a lower speed compared to the Tu-22M3 it can get its own niche.

                      "The second generation ekranoplanes were supposed to have a take-off weight of up to 1000 tons."

                      http://vz.ru/society/2015/7/29/758540.html

                      even at this stage it is clear that simply with a minimum of normal resource support during design, the characteristics increase by 1,5 - 2 times. So we are dealing already with 3 km. Or with an EP in which the GP is about 000 - 400 tons per 500 - 1000 km.

                      Such a mobile RTO, capable of taking on board 50 - 100t CR, inexpensive
                      compare https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Small_artillery_project_ ships_21630:
                      IN AND
                      For project 21630: 500 t
                      For project 21631: 949 t
                      For project 21632: 560 t

                      Cruising range up to 1500 miles

                      Missile weapons For the project 21631: 1x8 Caliber or 1x8 Onyx - i.e. 8x4t.

                      Lun already had about such data.
                      The main thing with this comparison is the cost. And there is every reason to believe that KM was not worth as Mriya
                      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 July 2015 21: 10
                        0
                        Quote: xtur
                        How much does the airbus cost, comparable with Mriya GP, is approximately clear. How much is Ruslan, too. the rest is a matter of common sense.

                        so how much does Ruslan cost? The figure was called $ 150 million for the plane, although there are also more modest figures - up to 100 million. Http://www.airwar.ru/enc/aliner/an124-210.html
                        Given all this, we can probably assume that the cost of Mriya will not exceed 300, to the maximum of 350-400 million dollars. This is the equivalent of the price of 3-4 heavy fighters.
                        The KM dragged on itself engines that exceeded the dviglo of the five most modern at that time fighter-interceptors. The KM is a much more complicated design than a conventional aircraft, because it must operate in a two-medium mode - both air and water are our best friends, while the aircraft has enough air. All this suggests that the KM and Mriya are machines that are comparable in cost (and, moreover, reasoning constructively, the KM is MUCH MORE THAN Mriya), just one is PRIAR, and the second is not, that's all.
                        Quote: xtur
                        But even known facts are enough to estimate the cost - if you do not pretend to be a hose

                        This is what I love - if you ask a person a direct question, he has nothing to answer and it begins: "I am right, because I am right, and who thinks otherwise, that hose"
                        No, dear, I will not let you pretend to be a hose.
                        Quote: xtur
                        "The dead giant was carried across the Caspian for two weeks." - so to the victim of a similar accident Airbas, or Mriya would not be treated

                        Yeah. Only you somehow "forgot" that the CM made its first flight in 1, and it crashed in 1966. You "forgot" that the Caspian monster itself was ABSOLUTELY useless, and was only suitable for the role of a test bench - it NEVER performed any other tasks. And you "forgot" that by the time it crashed, all the necessary data that could be obtained from it had been received from it; the same Lun was already being designed with might and main.
                        Therefore, only you can compare KM with Mriya - no one has the conscience to compare the prototype with the serial (even if it was the only one in the series) aircraft
                      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 30 July 2015 21: 10
                        -1
                        The correct comparison range, to assess the feasibility of the KM is between RTOs, Mriya and Tu-22M3. The USSR had significant firepower on the Tu-22M3, and was ready to pay extra money compared to the RTOs for the mobility of this firepower. if the KM has an acceptable cost, then at a lower speed compared to the Tu-22M3, it can get its own niche.

                        recall where exactly the USSR had the moon? In the Caspian flotilla. What are the Tu-22M3? :)))
                        Quote: xtur
                        even at this stage it is clear that simply with a minimum of normal resource support during design, the characteristics increase by 1,5 - 2 times. So we are dealing already with 3 km. Or with an EP in which the GP is about 000 - 400 tons per 500 - 1000 km.

                        And with the cost of an air regiment of modern fighters. And with no combat stability.
                        The tasks of destroying ship groupings through the use of missile-carrying aircraft are solved much easier and cheaper.
                        Quote: xtur
                        Cruising range up to 1500 miles
                        Missile weapons For the project 21631: 1x8 Caliber or 1x8 Onyx - i.e. 8x4t.
                        Lun already had about such data.

                        Yeah. Now recall that the cost of 1 boat type Buyan
                        According to the statement of the former commander of the Caspian Flotilla, Y. Startsev, the cost of the Astrakhan lead ship is 372 million rubles, serial ships can cost the customer - the Russian Navy is no more than 250 million rubles. http://bastion-karpenko.narod.ru/21630.html

                        Those. one boat costs about $ 10 million? How many squadrons of RTOs can be built instead of one "Cloon"?
                      3. xtur
                        xtur 31 July 2015 13: 40
                        0
                        Here are the cost data I found online today.

                        http://www.odnako.org/view_comment/51450/1803537/
                        http://www.odnako.org/view_comment/51450/1803582/
                        in the mid-80s, the Lunya construction cost around 30-40 million rubles, the first Eaglet cost 18 million, and the third 12 million
                        Lun 50-60, Tu-160 in 1990 cost 48 ml. Project 1234 from the memory of something about 20 million, the destroyer (ship of the 1st rank by the way) 100 million, the most fancy Mig-27 with Kaira 3,6

                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Малые_ракетные_корабли_про
                      4. xtur
                        xtur 31 July 2015 14: 04
                        0
                        > And with the cost of modern fighter aircraft regiment. And with no combat resistance.
                        The tasks of destroying ship groupings through the use of missile-carrying aircraft are solved much easier and cheaper.

                        what I like about accountants and bankers is that they understand everything.

                        They are not even embarrassed by the reference to the opinion of Kasatonov, who could see for himself the place of the EP in the Navy after the technical development of their parameters and the accumulation of operational experience.

                        Since the accountant who does not want to be a banker is bad, and apparently, every accountant already sees himself as a banker, simply providing a link to the opinion of specialists is clearly not enough to overwhelm their pressure. still have to directly quote the opinion of a specialist http://vz.ru/society/2015/7/29/758540.html:

                        "If there is a consistency, consistency, then over time we will move on to serial production. Then we will figure out where it will be used - over water or over ice," Kasatonov suggested. "When will they be made both technically and technologically, when their reliability will be confirmed, then the question of tactics of their use will arise. "

                        The former commander-in-chief considers the advantage of ekranoplanes their speed and suddenness of appearance. “He can fly in the air high, then above the water itself. The projection of the rocket is very small, several tens of centimeters. While experiments are underway, but there is a great future ahead. It has many uses. So, rocket-carrying ekranoplanes are a very effective means ", -"

                        PS.
                        it’s already quite bad when the cost is compared essentially the head of the Mriya glider and the finished combat aircraft - on ships it seems like the ratio of the price of hull and equipment is about 1 to 3, I don’t know exactly what the ratio of military aircraft will be, but certainly not less than 1 to 2, it means that an armed platform based on Mriya will cost about a billion and a half billion dollars

                        And the cost of the Moon, which was quoted above, is the cost of a ship with mounted weapons systems, which means that the cost of KM will be 2 times less than
                      5. xtur
                        xtur 31 July 2015 14: 16
                        0
                        unnecessarily in the original message the necessary part of the message was lost, I want to fix the relative data on the price of the Lun, which, although contradictory, is also interesting - one Lun costs about 2 RTOs and one Tu-160.

                        If the conditional Lun, after redesigning, becomes 2 times more efficient, as Kasatonov expected, then it will be completely comparable with the RTOs in terms of VI / GP, and if we proceed from the double difference in their price, then this is more than an acceptable difference taking into account the difference in their mobility

                        by the way, at the link http://www.odnako.org/view_comment/51450/1803537

                        there is an interesting analysis of the possibilities to replace Lun with different versions of Su - very instructive for opponents of EP
                      6. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
                        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 31 July 2015 19: 30
                        0
                        Quote: xtur
                        Here are the cost data I found online today.

                        Given the fact that you found conversations between two members of the forum without reference to sources, the value of this information is minuscule.
                        But even if you take it on faith - it turns out that Lun, costing either 30, or 40, or 50 million rubles, is at best one and a half times cheaper than the Tu-160. Can you compare the power of two Tu-160s (24 hypersonic X-15s each) and three moons? Range of action? Speed ​​reaction?
                        Quote: xtur
                        what I like about accountants and bankers is that they understand everything

                        Yes we are laughing True, I’m neither an accountant nor a banker, but what's the difference to you? :)))
                        Quote: xtur
                        They are not even embarrassed by the reference to the opinion of Kasatonov, who could see for himself the place of the EP in the Navy after the technical development of their parameters and the accumulation of operational experience.

                        If you are already trying to juggle, then show at least a minimum of ingenuity.
                        You and I talked about the ekranoplanes of the PAST, including their value in comparison with other types of weapons. On this occasion, Katasonov on your link said:
                        “Their main problem was reliability, which determined their future fate,” Igor Kasatonov, the former first deputy head of the Navy, told the VZGLYAD newspaper a year ago. The admiral found ekranoplanes when he commanded the Black Sea Fleet. According to Kasatonov, with the "paper-theoretical" beauty of the project in practice, ekranoplanes were extremely ineffective.

                        That's all. The rest that Katasonov says boils down to the following "If suddenly on the new technological base all the shortcomings of ekranoplanes magically disappear, and their characteristics magically increase 1,5-2 times, then they have nothing to do in the ocean, but in the coastal the zone may be useful for something else "

                        Quote: xtur
                        one Lun costs about 2 RTOs and one Tu-160.

                        That kills the ekranoplan idea at the root, because in its capabilities it didn’t lie close to either two RTOs or one Tu-160
                        Quote: xtur
                        by the way, at the link http://www.odnako.org/view_comment/51450/1803537
                        there is an interesting analysis of the possibilities to replace Lun with different versions of Su - very instructive for opponents of EP

                        It is touching. By your link, Valeria Komskov very clearly explained why the ekranoplane didn’t lie next to aviation
                      7. tlauicol
                        tlauicol 1 August 2015 05: 01
                        0
                        Yesterday, by the way, an experienced ES in Petrozavodsk was defeated - the arguments that ES could be safely splashed in case of engine failure were once again covered with a copper basin. In June, too, broke one
            5. varov14
              varov14 29 July 2015 21: 52
              0
              Apparently money burns hands, but there is no one to think about priorities.
            6. Maxom75
              Maxom75 29 July 2015 22: 30
              +2
              https://youtu.be/T2NcmAwlBf0 Это фильм про Алексеева, там как раз объясняется почему такой вес у экраноплана был. Ответ банальный ни главком ВВС, ни главком ВМС не хотели принимать этот вид военной техники в свой род войск. На авиастроение уходил практически весь алюминий и на строительство экранопланов выделили корабельную сталь, экраноплан получился тяжёлый. Всех смущало несколько факторов: дальность полёта (кране мала для ВМФ и стратегов ВВС; грузоподъёмность для корабля мала для самолёта велика; ограничения по погоде (в шторм неэффективен); не защищённ от противодействия "лётного крыла" АУГ; тихоходен для ВВС и слишком быстр для ВМС (не получится прикрыть от атак с воздуха); слабая вооружённость (только ударные комплексы). Я не вижу области применения экранопланов в современных ВС, ну разве, что эвакуационное средство и для быстрой доставки в определённый район диверсантов, ещё для ловли браконьеров. Могу ошибаться, но для чего ещё трудно понять. Впрочем я не эксперт.
            7. Dikson
              Dikson 30 July 2015 02: 36
              +2
              .. News from the category .. "And then Ostap suffered .." In a rather tough period for the country, when budget programs are sequestered, when production stops and workers and engineers are sent on forced vacations, people are looking for an opportunity to receive orders .. - the defense industry will save everyone ... So, in the absence of operating production facilities, the projectiles of space airships, diving ekranoplanes, walking tanks and dancing rockets appear .. And what is characteristic, it will be possible to ask about the results not earlier than 20 years .. Considering the scale of theft (and now only billions, less pampering) - in the overwhelming majority of cases it will end with sketches and layouts, on which billions of dollars will be spent .. And with all this, the country cannot build a single normal civil aircraft, not a single normal passenger car, no domestic computer, TV ..
          4. Throw
            Throw 29 July 2015 19: 17
            +1

            - "And if - a storm?" Disruption of the operation? I do not pretend to be rated, just explain, who knows!
            ...
            -Everything is simple. If there is a storm, the enemy also has a failure of the operation.

            If the storm-EP sticks out in the base, and the enemy ships continue to deploy.

            And it’s even more interesting to calculate the pictures of battle options when there is no storm. Take the TTX of the EP, ships of the AUG order or other possible targets for the EP.
            And compare, for example, with airstrike ..
            wink
        2. avt
          avt 29 July 2015 16: 26
          0
          Quote: Baikonur
          - "And if - a storm?" Disruption of the operation?

          So, for general development, look for the point at which surface ships still use weapons and compare with the same "Moon".
          1. strannik1985
            strannik1985 30 July 2015 07: 25
            +2
            Project 956 with active roll stabilizers can use weapons in waves up to 7 points, the use of weapons at 3-4 points is a normal situation for naval ships, not to mention being at sea. KM itself, half of the mock-ups, 2 of 4 "Eagles" were lost in moderate excitement. Again on the rake? Let's make ourselves a weapon of good weather?
            At the same time, the cost of the Lun ekranoplan is 50-60 million rubles, almost half of the cost of the Project 956 EM (100 million rubles), the cost of Tu-22M3 is 20 million rubles.
        3. aleks 62
          aleks 62 29 July 2015 16: 55
          +2
          ..... "And if - a storm?" ....

          .... It depends what ... If with a wave height of up to 2-2,5 m (and believe me a lot), then this device flies quite successfully (under it the water "moves in" - a pit is formed, as it were .... Well, with In a good storm, light ships (boats) also cannot perform fully combat missions - all ships have restrictions on seaworthiness and use because of this weapon ... hi
        4. NKVD
          NKVD 29 July 2015 17: 19
          0
          If the storm soars above the waves and continues to carry out the combat mission
        5. fevg
          fevg 30 July 2015 00: 06
          0
          It flies like an airplane, but the range is reduced due to increased fuel consumption.
        6. Starley from the south
          Starley from the south 30 July 2015 01: 05
          0
          Quote: Baikonur
          "And if it's a storm?"

          It seems like the Caspian Monster could fly confidently at five-meter waves, correct if I'm wrong. This, of course, will not pull on a real storm, but ... if the Soviet experience is taken into account, then a weak and medium "storm" will affect less than on surface ships.
        7. leon1204id
          leon1204id 31 July 2015 17: 09
          0
          There are ekranoplans and ekranoplanes. The ekranoplane does not rise above the effect of the screen - about 1,5-3 hulls, depending on the design. And the ekranoplane is already an aircraft that uses, in addition to the screen, and the lift of the wing. storm.
      2. Alexey Boukin
        Alexey Boukin 29 July 2015 20: 04
        +2
        The revival of work on the construction of ekranoplanes will be the best "monument" to Rostislav Alekseev.
      3. Grandfather bear
        Grandfather bear 29 July 2015 22: 55
        +1
        said ..... an unnamed naval command representative

        Like, some kind of spar seemed to run past the smoking-room, like in a military uniform, and type chucked something out.
        I don’t understand how this can be issued ?!
        Everyone here knows how unevenly I breathe on this subject, but, to give out something like this, to discredit the site!
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. dauria
        dauria 29 July 2015 16: 13
        -7
        - "And if - a storm?"


        Screen effect - up to a height of approximately 30% wing chords. We get meters 5-7. Rise above, turn into a regular plane. In a word, miracle judo successfully combines the flaws of an airplane and a ship. The price is airplane, the possibilities are highly controversial compared to a heavy bomber. Americans do not seriously consider them. In the civilian market, they have nothing to do in heavy weight, much less light weight.
        This is not a ship - imaginary autonomy, it is rigidly tied to fuel bases. And for the rest, you can’t call him a plane either.
        1. Telakh
          Telakh 29 July 2015 16: 18
          +13
          Americans do not consider them, because Americans in the ocean do not need them for nothing.
          For Russia, this is, firstly, anti-submarine and attack missile ships.
          Secondly - landing.
          Thirdly, the ekranoplan is not affected by torpedoes and flies at speeds up to 500km / h below the level of radar coverage.
          Fourth, the ekranoplane flies no worse than snow, swamps and flat land, and is ideal for use in the taiga for transporting passengers and goods along rivers and swamps in the extreme north.
          1. veksha50
            veksha50 29 July 2015 16: 48
            +1
            Quote: Telakh
            For Russia, this is, firstly, anti-submarine and attack missile ships.



            Just what Russia urgently needs now ... Let's just say that for defensive purposes and not in the ocean zone, they would be useful now !!!

            Well, the review has already said about the landing and transport option - it disappears, most likely - again due to financial problems ...

            PS I represent a "gift" on the Black Sea and Baltic Sea for mongrels from NATO ... Especially - for Romanians ... Yesin has already threatened them, saying who will be the first to fall under the distribution ...
        2. aleks 62
          aleks 62 29 July 2015 17: 00
          0
          .... Screen effect - up to a height of about 30% of the wing chord .....

          ..... belay ...... The screen effect is manifested at a distance up to the Wingspan, not the chord ..... By the way, the effect of the "air cushion" (screen) for a helicopter is also approximately up to the size of the rotor diameter .... Aerodynamics .... Do you understand ... wink
          1. sniper
            sniper 29 July 2015 17: 21
            +4
            Quote: aleks 62
            .. The screen effect is manifested at a distance to the Wingspan, and not the chords ..

            Just the same chords ...
            Aerodynamics .... Do you understand ...

            The screen effect occurs when the device flies low and the distance from the wing to the Earth or the surface of the water is small. The incoming flow, reflecting, manages to reach the surface and return back. That is, the wing seals the incoming air flow under it, turning it into a dynamic air cushion. Thus, an additional lifting force arises. The most complete effect is manifested if the flight height is not greater than the length of the chord of the wing of the aircraft (the chord of the wing is a segment of a straight line connecting the two most remote points of the wing cross section from each other).
            Reliance on a pillow of compressed air makes the ekranoplan much more economical than an airplane. Theoretically, ceteris paribus, the carrying capacity of a machine sliding over water can be 40% more!

            http://students.uni-vologda.ac.ru/pages/pm07/evn/ecreff.htm
          2. dauria
            dauria 29 July 2015 17: 59
            +6
            Aerodynamics .... Do you understand ...



            You know, even too lazy to argue. Even if you look at WIKI or something ... Well, what if with the intricacies of the focus of the wing and stability?

            By the way, the site has turned into a shop, few
            corresponding to the name. The gatherings of the former military, okay ... But this does not look much like a really military (or technical) site. Actually, the site owners skillfully use the good name and interest of people. Well ... They also need to eat.
            1. 52
              52 29 July 2015 19: 12
              +3
              dauria (1) RU Today, 17:59 ↑ New

              Aerodynamics .... Do you understand ...



              "You know, even too lazy to argue. At least take a look at WIKI or something ... Well, if with the intricacies of wing focus and stability, here http://engine.aviaport.ru/issues/53/page20.html

              By the way, the site has turned into a shop, few
              corresponding to the name "- I agree, fellow countryman. A full stream of urya-don't-understand-what, and not the slightest desire to read literature and do a brain analysis. Only technical reviews and please! And the" professor "sometimes burns!
              1. Throw
                Throw 29 July 2015 19: 29
                +1

                dauria (1) RU Today, 16: 13 ↑
                - "And if - a storm?"

                Screen effect - up to a height of approximately 30% wing chords. We get meters 5-7. Rise above, turn into a regular plane. In a word, miracle judo successfully combines the flaws of an airplane and a ship. The price is airplane, the possibilities are highly controversial compared to a heavy bomber. Americans do not seriously consider them. In the civilian market, they have nothing to do in heavy weight, much less light weight.
                This is not a ship - imaginary autonomy, it is rigidly tied to fuel bases. And for the rest, you can’t call him a plane either.

                I agree how heavy a shock or transport complex EP is ineffective.
                But. Possible as a lifesaver of the marine and near ocean zones.
                And in the light version (with piston engines) - just good for year-round use on rivers, including and in remote areas.
              2. wk
                wk 30 July 2015 01: 34
                0
                Quote: 52gim
                And the "professor" sometimes burns!

                and how many "professors" left the site or were banned (as too smart) ... one of these days one was walled up!
              3. The comment was deleted.
    3. smershxnumx
      smershxnumx 29 July 2015 16: 02
      +1
      Here the adversaries will again shudder from the heir to the "Caspian Monster" ... am
      1. smershxnumx
        smershxnumx 29 July 2015 19: 06
        +2
        The "sworn" partners certainly did not spare their efforts and money in the 90s so that our ekranoplanes would stop flying. And even now, I think, they will shit ...
      2. wk
        wk 30 July 2015 01: 36
        0
        Quote: smerx24
        Here the adversaries will again shudder from the heir to the "Caspian Monster" ...

        if it's ironic, then +++
      3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 July 2015 16: 11
      +10
      Quote: GRDS
      Waited

      And what have they waited for? What did the "unnamed representative" say? Can HORA shout or wait until 2020? Such publications can cause nothing but a sad smile.
      1. veksha50
        veksha50 29 July 2015 16: 51
        +1
        Quote: Bayonet
        Such publications can cause nothing but a sad smile.



        "And what have you waited for?"

        Yes, at least the fact that the developer has already been determined, TTZs have been issued, and the development work has begun ... and the Soviet developments, as I understand it, have been found, and this is also a lot of help to current developers ...

        And the money ... Yes, damn it, Russia has always lacked !!! However, for some reason there was always a way out ...
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 29 July 2015 19: 13
          +3
          Quote: veksha50
          Yes, at least the fact that the developer has already been determined, TTZ issued, and OCD began ..

          Where did you get this information from similar articles based on the statements of "unnamed representatives"? smile
          1. veksha50
            veksha50 30 July 2015 10: 37
            0
            Quote: Bayonet
            Where did you get this information from similar articles based on the statements of "unnamed representatives"?


            Here, at the moment, the article is being commented ...
            What I said is taken from this article ...

            The question then was not about where I got the information from, but about which of us was reading the article, and which was just writing comments, just to be noted ...
        2. strannik1985
          strannik1985 30 July 2015 07: 32
          0
          You see, what’s the matter ... The USSR spent 1,5 times more money on the construction of large surface ships and submarines than the United States spent on its fleet, while the task of fighting for supremacy at sea was never solved. Isn't it time to learn at least from your mistakes?
    5. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 July 2015 17: 29
      +6
      I read similar news in 2010 that in 2015 we will begin to build combat ekranoplanes - how are they building?
    6. APASUS
      APASUS 29 July 2015 19: 01
      -3
      Quote: GRDS
      Wait .... good news! Better late than never!

      So far, have not waited until only plans for 2020. During this time, a lot of things can change.
      Although the idea is simply excellent and we could become the founders of a new type of weapon .............. horseradish knows what has been going on in the minds of our government for how many years.
    7. Will give
      Will give 29 July 2015 20: 37
      +1
      Better sooner than late and really bad if never.
    8. NEXUS
      NEXUS 29 July 2015 21: 25
      +1
      Quote: GRDS
      Wait .... good news! Better late than never!

      I would like not only the Lun updated, but also the CM, which rusted in the Caspian.
      1. pticas
        pticas 30 July 2015 06: 24
        0
        Sorry to fix it. KM does not rust!
        It was crashed back in 1980 or 1981. Piloting error, as well as one "Eaglet", later in 1984.
      2. leon1204id
        leon1204id 31 July 2015 17: 18
        0
        It seems like it's just crap, even if there is an official source. We’ll build PAK YES and repeat the feat of the Americans from B2 Spirit.
  2. Oleneboy_
    Oleneboy_ 29 July 2015 15: 57
    +4
    I’m supporting it !!! Durmashina is still the same ... For the Ministry of Emergencies it is also necessary to save our ships in each fleet.
  3. Darkmor
    Darkmor 29 July 2015 16: 00
    +2
    Well, ekranoplans is a very interesting project. But he was of more interest as a scientific and technical one, and not as a military one. The ekranoplanes themselves had significant shortcomings in the Soviet years (in fact, why they were covered up). Honestly, until I see the alleged performance characteristics of the new ekranoplan, they won’t be happy.
    This can be a breakthrough in our defense industry, as well as a budget cut and a dead end branch of development.
  4. Turbo rabbit
    Turbo rabbit 29 July 2015 16: 00
    +3
    The machine is relevant. It is difficult to detect, it is capable of dragging a lot, only it is necessary to restore not only production, but also the entire infrastructure for them.
  5. tlauicol
    tlauicol 29 July 2015 16: 00
    +11
    Another zvizdesh from the series: we will hand over "Vikramaditya" in 2008, "Severodvinsk" in 1997, and the corvette "Strogiy" in 2014
  6. FID
    FID 29 July 2015 16: 01
    +16
    The agency recalls that "an ekranoplan is a high-speed vehicle, something between a heavy aircraft and a light boat," which is capable of flying "within the range of the aerodynamic screen, at a height of up to several meters from the surface of the water or the ground."


    I would say - up to several tens of meters above the surface .... Now I would argue with O. Kaptsov once again whether ekranoplanes are needed or not ...
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 29 July 2015 16: 10
      +6
      Quote: SSI
      Now I would argue with O. Kaptsov once again whether ekranoplanes are needed or not ...

      Let's better live to the 20th by the end of the article - someone said something to someone ....
      I can write five or ten of these in an hour. Well, knowing what kind of ekranoplanes we are trying to build now, I am afraid that they will call it "shock" immediately after installing a machine gun on it.
      Aircraft carriers in the 20m already promised us once.
      1. sniper
        sniper 29 July 2015 17: 40
        +1
        Quote: lelikas
        after installing a machine gun on it.

        Even with machine-gun weapons, an ekranoplan with a speed of 250 knots will catch up with any border violator and send him sprats to feed. Do not hait everything. Not beautiful! hi
        1. tlauicol
          tlauicol 30 July 2015 07: 58
          -1



          most violators are fishermen - they wanted to spit on ekranoplans
    2. engineer74
      engineer74 29 July 2015 16: 12
      +2
      Quote: SSI
      The agency recalls that "an ekranoplan is a high-speed vehicle, something between a heavy aircraft and a light boat," which is capable of flying "within the range of the aerodynamic screen, at a height of up to several meters from the surface of the water or the ground."


      I would say - up to several tens of meters above the surface .... Now I would argue with O. Kaptsov once again whether ekranoplanes are needed or not ...

      I support! A couple of years ago, interesting hmmm ... there were discussions! good (Oh, how good it was before the Maidan ...)
      Only now it is necessary to argue objectively, but without those. assignments for the project is not very convenient ....
    3. dyksi
      dyksi 29 July 2015 16: 24
      +8
      I don't understand why they write about the construction of aircraft carriers after 2026, destroyers after 2020 (as well as a promising interceptor), now there is also an ekranoplan in the same place. Why do they comfort the people in this way? For me personally, it all sounds like this: - "Fuck off, in the near future you will not see anything." We do not build corvettes and frigates, strategists cannot master the construction, and the ekranoplan is no less serious, especially a big shock one. Maybe for a start, put things in order and master what is and what is needed. Strategists, fighters (real, Su-30SM, MiG-35, MiG-31), frigates and destroyers, multipurpose nuclear submarines, tanks. We need exactly this as air and in large quantities, it must first be put on the conveyor belt and saturate the army and navy, then we can dream up.
      1. FID
        FID 29 July 2015 16: 31
        +10
        Remember Khoja Nasreddin and his parable about the donkey and everything falls into place ...
        1. engineer74
          engineer74 29 July 2015 16: 42
          +2
          Thoughts like: "Donkey or Podishah" also come, but the analogy is not entirely correct - the people will definitely not die first, and on occasion, maybe "come along" to help ... There is something else. Our promises are overwhelmed, moreover, with military-technical ones, mainly after 2020, the Americans lie about the lost and behave like an elephant in a china shop, not caring about the consequences. Something we do not know and this something will be until the 20th year.
          IMHO
        2. sniper
          sniper 29 July 2015 17: 45
          +3
          Quote: SSI
          Remember Khoja Nasreddin

          Sergey, I think differently ... First of all, it is necessary to revive science, even if industry cannot at this stage realize their developments. Otherwise, even a very developed industry will only have to produce pots, because they can’t develop anything else ... Somehow, in my opinion ...
          1. FID
            FID 29 July 2015 18: 27
            +3
            Quote: sniper
            even if industry cannot realize their development at this stage.

            Simply, absolutely EVERYTHING: by 2020, by 2025, after 2023, etc. There is no faith in these "stewards"!
            1. sniper
              sniper 29 July 2015 18: 42
              +2
              Quote: SSI
              Simple, absolutely ALL: by 2020, by 2025, after 2023

              Sergey, personally, I think these terms are overly optimistic, in fact, + 3-5 years is even better ... Everything is destroyed, and you need to recreate and improve, but this is not done in a couple of years ... My dear BPO "Screen ", perhaps you have heard about it, no matter how the MAP structure, it cannot be restored, although it works, it seems like the ABS does for MAZ ... Count up, ACS and ABS ... I want to cry ...
            2. NEXUS
              NEXUS 29 July 2015 22: 01
              +2
              Quote: SSI
              Simply, absolutely EVERYTHING: by 2020, by 2025, after 2023, etc. There is no faith in these "stewards"!

              Good evening, dear Sergey. hi
              You are right, there are many projects and how to make this whole fairy tale come true is not very clear yet. But looking at the fuss and the statements of Amers and Europeans and our applications for 20 and beyond, it really seems that they are not telling us something very important.
              You can scold our managers, the military-industrial complex and the whole elite ... but a lot is being done.
              There is such a crazy idea that many innovative developments HAVE ALREADY been in development for a long time, and the public is simply confronted with a fait accompli. But this is all a kind of understatement. I don’t know, maybe I'm wrong, but I'm used to trusting my intuition.
              Best regards hi
        3. Bayonet
          Bayonet 29 July 2015 19: 31
          0
          Quote: SSI
          Remember Khoja Nasreddin and his parable about the donkey and everything falls into place ...

          "an unnamed representative of the command of the Navy", exactly remembers this parable, therefore he is "unnamed"! smile
        4. xtur
          xtur 29 July 2015 21: 41
          0
          > Remember Khoja Nasreddin and his parable about the donkey and everything falls into place.

          ... and if they say that tomorrow they will start producing EP / Tu-160 / Armata / ... you yourself will say that this is unrealistic, because it takes 10-15 years to prepare the production of any serious project.

          This is just a matter of trust / distrust of the current government, because the deadlines for all serious projects are called, as far as one can judge, more or less realistic
      2. Wedmak
        Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 35
        0
        Well, how can corvettes and frigates not be built? Given that this name is now conditional, corvettes rivet quite quickly. RTOs are called.
        Fighters make and ship, multi-purpose submarines also do, along with diesel, tanks undergo modernization, but in a neighboring article they promise to start delivering T-14 next year.
        This is exactly what we need, like air and in large quantities.

        And in large numbers, how much?
    4. sniper
      sniper 29 July 2015 17: 36
      +4
      Quote: SSI
      Now I would argue with O. Kaptsov once again whether ekranoplanes are needed or not ...

      Hello Sergey! What is there to argue about? If the Neanderthals are given a Kalashnikov assault rifle, then they will lightly tinker and say that a stone ax is more effective ... Small missile boats, with a ridiculous speed and a complete lack of seaworthiness, are a GUD. But the device is an order of magnitude superior in speed and many times in armament - it sucks ... So why argue? The ekranoplan will leave any storm, wait it out, return and sink what nature has not drowned, and quietly returns to the base, But this is not at all Kaptsov's way - it means it has no right to exist. Somehow a couple of days ago, "experts" compared two boats, the Lithuanian one has 30 knots, and ours has only 19, and without bothering at all about the purpose of these boats ... And here 30 and more than 250 ... But ours - it sucks ... It's not about logic, it's about ordering ... IMHO
    5. Maxom75
      Maxom75 29 July 2015 22: 39
      0
      And what purpose can he have for the sun now? I honestly do not see. It will take a lot of money, but efficiency?
  7. Wedmak
    Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 07
    0
    Chet just can not believe it. That's when I see the flying prototype, I believe.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 29 July 2015 16: 18
      +1
      Quote: Wedmak
      Chet just can not believe it. That's when I see the flying prototype, I believe.

      Only if the moon is revived. And in view of the chronic drop in the exchange rate and oil prices - this is not believed at all. If KAMAZ and the Urals can build prototypes of cars with their own money, then the Central Design Bureau will certainly not pull an ekranoplane, and even 500 tons - this is how two Lunya come out.
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 29 July 2015 19: 39
        0
        Quote: lelikas
        Only if the moon is revived.

        This bird probably can’t be revived ....
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 29 July 2015 19: 59
          0
          They are unlikely to try at all. Technology stepped forward, new materials, new weapons, new SLAs appeared. Rather, they will take the best that was there and build a new one, perhaps even according to a different scheme.
        2. KazakPatrol
          KazakPatrol 29 July 2015 22: 53
          +1
          He's inside like new! I personally saw it!
        3. wk
          wk 30 July 2015 01: 39
          -1
          Quote: Bayonet
          This bird probably can’t be revived ....

          Do you need it?
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. Bongo
          Bongo 30 July 2015 05: 43
          +1
          Quote: Bayonet
          This bird probably can’t be revived ....

          To date, the only Lunya sample has been decommissioned and mothballed in the Caspian.
          wassat How does one combine with the other? Like, at first "mothballed" and then written off, or vice versa?
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 29 July 2015 20: 30
      +2
      Quote: Wedmak
      Chet just can not believe it. That's when I see the flying prototype, I believe.

      Unfortunately, I can only show on newsreels ...
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 29 July 2015 20: 46
        +2
        I’ll add a shorter video ...
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 29 July 2015 21: 19
          -1
          Thanks guys, but I saw that.
  8. nemec55
    nemec55 29 July 2015 16: 08
    +1
    Ufffff, aren't our media already tired tongue
    How much did the union fall apart ??? Until there is a unified strategy for governing the country for a hundred years (namely, a hundred and more than one is desirable) without radical changes in the system, politics, course, etc., this balobolst only makes you smile.
  9. shinobi
    shinobi 29 July 2015 16: 13
    +3
    However, there is a hint. To overwhelm an aircraft carrier, 2-4 missiles are required. And the "harrier" is the very thing. It moves above the water just out of sight of the radars, drags 8 "Granites" if memory serves. Quickly crept up, fired a volley and washed away. attention to yourself, and here special nuclear submarines are suitable for a full-fledged alaverdy to "partners". Why not an option?
    1. leshiy076
      leshiy076 29 July 2015 16: 22
      0
      The moon was armed with six mosquitoes.
      1. sniper
        sniper 29 July 2015 17: 47
        0
        Quote: leshiy076
        The moon was armed

        Can "Lun"
    2. dauria
      dauria 29 July 2015 16: 39
      +1
      Moves above water just out of sight


      Have you seen how the AUG air defense is organized? "out of sight" will not work for AWACS and fighters. They detect a missile with EPR less than half a meter above the water. And such a colossus has zero chances. And where will he get target designation? And in the light of the latest "projects", doubts about Shoigu are growing ... The order in the bedside tables is his.
    3. starpom
      starpom 29 July 2015 16: 47
      +4
      Quote: shinobi
      To fill up an aircraft carrier, 2-4 missiles are required.

      But for 2-4 missiles to reach the aircraft carrier, there must be up to 70 missiles in the salvo
    4. Bayonet
      Bayonet 29 July 2015 19: 47
      +1
      Quote: shinobi
      . Moving over the water just out of sight of the radar,

      Where such confidence? Any AUG with AWACS aircraft (and there are enough of them) will find it at a safe distance and take all measures to destroy it!
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 29 July 2015 20: 01
        -2
        This is if in the open sea. And if for the islands? And if on the ekranoplane air defense system will stand? And if I can write a dozen more of these ...
      2. svp67
        svp67 29 July 2015 20: 15
        -1
        Quote: Bayonet
        Any AUG with AWACS aircraft (and there are enough of them) will find it at a safe distance and take all measures to destroy it!

        There are many "buts", and the difficulty of detecting against the background of the sea, and the difficulty of hitting a fast-moving target at an extremely low altitude, not even because the EP itself is heavily armed ...
      3. Maxom75
        Maxom75 29 July 2015 22: 46
        0
        unless you make two such ekranoplanes, one shock the second with electronic warfare, well, at least Krasukha-2, then the AWACS will see not one or two ekranoplanes, but hundreds two three))) Maybe it won’t see anything at all. Maybe that's why they are thinking of resurrecting them? To score AWACS and AUG radars? Although nonsense. Now there is no such discipline as under the USSR, in the shortest possible time we only learned to trade the Motherland (((.
  10. Don_Pedro
    Don_Pedro 29 July 2015 16: 16
    0
    If this machine is promising, then why only with 2020?
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 19
      0
      why only with 2020?

      So it still needs to be constructed. Lun, Eaglet, KM, these are all the projects of the USSR, now they are technologically outdated. Yes, and probably constructively, because There are new schemes ekranoplans.
  11. Zerstorer
    Zerstorer 29 July 2015 16: 21
    +1
    To be honest, the phrase "after 2020" sounds like "Either the shah dies, or the donkey, or we will build the ekranoplan"
    1. sabakina
      sabakina 29 July 2015 20: 03
      +2
      Quote: Zerstorer
      To be honest, the phrase "after 2020" sounds like "Either the shah dies, or the donkey, or we will build the ekranoplan"
      Or everyone will die and not be built.
  12. bromine
    bromine 29 July 2015 16: 27
    0
    Until 2020, it is necessary to survive.
    If in the topic, to the anger of today, it is interesting how things are in Yakutia with the test of the Wing-Petrel-24 ekranoplan created in the Sky and Sea LLC. In civilian modification - it is able to carry up to 24 passengers with baggage. This is interesting because there was infa in China, that they have approximately the same devices already used on marine patrols of the coast.
  13. RPG_
    RPG_ 29 July 2015 16: 28
    0
    But why do we need them? How to fit them into the concept of the Navy? And what tasks will be set for them? Or just another cut like Skolkovo?
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 29 July 2015 16: 37
      +3
      Yes, of course, our new ekranoplan “Sterkh-10” cannot be compared with what the USSR built. But with what it is necessary to begin again.
      Sterkh-10

      "Sterkh-10" is made according to the formula of a catamaran and differs from the Soviet "Caspian monsters", which are made in the form of "flying boats". In addition, some of the elements are made of composite materials. "Sterkh" should break away from water or ice at speed and develop a cruising speed of 250 km / h.
      http://vz.ru/news/2013/7/29/643189.html
      Soviet school.
      "Large" ekranoplanes.



      But there were also small ones.
    2. sabakina
      sabakina 29 July 2015 20: 06
      +2
      Quote: RPG_
      But why do we need them? How to fit them into the concept of the Navy? And what tasks will be set for them? Or just another cut like Skolkovo?

      The Union could not come to a consensus, to whose fleet it could be assigned, perhaps this is one of the reasons for forgetting the brainchild of Alekseev ...
      1. wk
        wk 30 July 2015 01: 45
        -1
        Quote: sabakina
        The Union could not come to a consensus, to whose fleet it could be assigned, perhaps this is one of the reasons for forgetting the brainchild of Alekseev ...

        the reason for oblivion is that it is a DEAD branch of evolution, both in terms of weapons and for civilian purposes! POINT!
    3. sniper
      sniper 29 July 2015 20: 48
      +2
      Quote: RPG_
      But why do we need them? How to fit them into the concept of the Navy? And what tasks will be set for them?

      As the saying goes: Give the fool crystal horseradish, so he will either break, or cut his hands.
      Once in the tsarist army, Nagans were produced in two modifications: self-loading (for officers) and requiring a manual cocking of the trigger (for lower ranks). So the most interesting thing is that the second, not self-loading, was obtained from the officer by installing an extra part ... That is, it was more expensive in production ... What am I doing? At first, the crossbow was declared a weapon of smerds that did not correspond to the spirit of knightly wars, but otherwise, the knight's heavy crossbow bolt pierced right through along with the armor (of course, rape, genocide and other crimes were quite consistent with this spirit). Then there was a persecution of automatic weapons, then they demanded that a man walk in front of the locomotive and shout about the approach of this "monster", then everyone laughed at the first cars and airplanes, then .... and now: "ekranoplanes do not fit ..." So the time has come to delete those who enter, and look for smarter ones ... Well, something like that ...
  14. veksha50
    veksha50 29 July 2015 16: 33
    -2
    "Central Design Bureau for SEC named after R.E. Alekseev is developing a project of an ekranoplan ocean zone with take-off weight of approximately 500 tons"...

    Honestly, it was me who was singled out by me allotted ... to the ocean zone, and even the take-off mass - 500 tons ...

    I’m afraid it’s not going to turn out like this: "Why not aim at our comrade, William Shakespeare?" ...

    TTZ - has already been issued, OCD with the use of Soviet developments - is already underway, and this is only pleasing ... The necessary thing, no doubt, and, say, in the Caspian Sea, the Black Sea and the Baltic - consider it a fire-breathing dragon and powerful weapons .. But in the ocean zone, frankly, I can’t imagine it, no matter how I try ... And there are many reasons for this ...

    Well, God forbid that I was wrong, our government had enough financial resources for this project, and "partners" would give us time to develop and refine this project ...

    PS With the advent of such monsters, in part the problem of the lack of strike ships would be removed ... But anyway, well, I don’t see him in the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean off the coast of the United States, but I would like to !!!
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 29 July 2015 16: 39
      -1
      ocean zone, and even take-off mass - 500 tons ...

      This was said in May, that is, not the fact that it will be a strike ship. Perhaps even an airborne assault. And it is already quite possible to imagine.
      Again, the "ocean zone" includes the seas. The Atlantic, and even more so the Pacific Ocean, is unlikely to be overcome, but the entire coast of Europe will be accessible for sure.
    2. sniper
      sniper 29 July 2015 20: 57
      0
      Quote: veksha50
      . But anyway, well, I don’t see him in the Atlantic or the Pacific Ocean off the coast of the United States, but I would like it !!!

      And now try to imagine a monster, much larger, walking at a takeoff speed of a fighter, (this is from 240 to 300 km / h), alas, I don’t know more precisely. So planes can take off from it without catapults, without jumps, and without acceleration. That is, they lifted it from the hangar, the engine entered the operating mode, the holding grips were opened and it is already flying ... And with the landing too ...
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 29 July 2015 21: 26
        0
        So planes can take off from it without catapults, without jumps, and without acceleration.

        It is doubtful that the plane will be shoved there. It’s more likely that heels of anti-aircraft missiles will be delivered, such as TOR.
        In general, the load can be guessed for a long time. Here and Caliber, and torpedoes, and mines, and anti-submarine equipment. This is not to mention the landing and transport capabilities.
        1. sniper
          sniper 29 July 2015 22: 08
          0
          Quote: Wedmak
          In general, you can guess for a long time about the load.

          Denis, I completely agree, there would be a platform ... Personally, I do not think that Lun and Eaglet were a masterpiece that cannot be surpassed. These were, as is now customary to say, prototypes showing the possibilities of the idea itself. And for its improvement it is necessary to consider, build, test, develop operating experience and again to count and build ... And about the aircraft-based ekranoplan, I’m just to demonstrate the capabilities of the idea itself, although I understand that this is completely unrealistic. More precisely, a couple of fighters, so you can ride, but is there any sense in this?
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 29 July 2015 22: 34
        +2
        Quote: sniper
        And now try to imagine a monster, a much larger one, walking at a takeoff speed of a fighter (this is from 240 to 300 km / h), alas, I do not know more precisely.

        Well, the KM I’ll tell you it wasn’t small. And the carrying capacity under 1000 tons, if the memory serves ...
        Although, I think, if Alekseev were then given the green light, he would also have built a screen-aircraft carrier over time, and moreover, I quite believe this. hi
    3. Maxom75
      Maxom75 29 July 2015 22: 50
      0
      So I represent the ACG in the Black, Caspian or Baltic Seas. Here, carriers of the Air Force and Navy are not needed, they will be drowned by coastal complexes, but they are much cheaper.))
    4. fevg
      fevg 30 July 2015 00: 35
      0
      Quote: veksha50
      "Central Design Bureau for SEC named after R.E. Alekseev is developing a project of an ekranoplan ocean zone with take-off weight of approximately 500 tons"... Honestly, I was confused by the selection ... of the ocean zone, and even the takeoff weight - 500 tons ... ...

      This is a classification of seaworthiness, i.e. can he go out into the ocean like a ship.
  15. Izotovp
    Izotovp 29 July 2015 16: 34
    +2
    Yes ! The work of the designers !!! New engines, new avionics and completely different rockets !!! Many things need to be counted. But it will be a good way to quickly maneuver with fire and disrupt the coast attack on distant approaches. The ekranoplan can be quickly transferred to the desired area than a submarine, a missile boat or a coastal battery, and its payload is higher than that of a strategist.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 July 2015 17: 21
      -1
      For the development of a new engine for ekranoplanes, a budget of 100 rubles will come out.
      1. sniper
        sniper 29 July 2015 17: 56
        0
        Quote: Vadim237
        new engine for ekranoplanes

        Aircraft engines are used on ekranoplans, on large naturally, but on small and automobile ones they are not disdain ...
  16. 0255
    0255 29 July 2015 16: 42
    -1
    A year ago there were articles about the fact that the production of ekranoplanes will resume. I would like to see the result.
  17. jindol47
    jindol47 29 July 2015 16: 46
    +4
    Judging by the publications, it was not the underfunding that killed the ekranoplanes, but the rat scuffle between sailors and pilots. No one wanted to take (or lacked the mind) for a completely new business. Their ass was more expensive than the country.
  18. pticas
    pticas 29 July 2015 16: 59
    +4
    Equipment of this class is needed!
    He personally took part in the Orlyonok landing on the Caspian Sea. We took on board about 200 fighters in Baku and after 1 hour and 4 minutes, having already unloaded near Krasnovodsk (on the unequipped coast), we started back!
    Probably not bad for capturing a bridgehead?
    It is not worth comparing the "Lunya" with the DBK, perhaps better with the MRK of the "Bora" type, etc. etc. Probably quite competitive?
  19. Max40
    Max40 29 July 2015 17: 00
    -1
    I think they want to do for artyka.
  20. cherkas.oe
    cherkas.oe 29 July 2015 17: 07
    -1
    Quote: veksha50
    Sometimes you can scare

    If only a hedgehog is a bare ass, and sworn friends have eyes and ears and count other people’s grandmothers, they are also very proud.
  21. abc_alex
    abc_alex 29 July 2015 17: 07
    +2
    Quote: RPG_
    But why do we need them? How to fit them into the concept of the Navy? And what tasks will be set for them? Or just another cut like Skolkovo?


    They fit perfectly into the concept of our fleet. Much better than the Mistrals. Our fleet is rocket-carrying and in the coming years does not set itself the task of domination in the ocean. WIGs (but I still hope that they will revive ekranoplanes) as a highly mobile platform for heavy anti-ship missiles will be a means of strengthening the ship group. These machines have practically a ship's carrying capacity and airplane speed, but structurally they are designed to fly several meters above the water, that is, below the horizon.
    The Su-34 cannot yet carry even a pair of Onyxes, the Tu-22M3 in theory can carry three, and although it can be loaded with five in terms of load capacity, there is simply nowhere to hang them, the suspension system needs to be modernized, which, in the absence of the NK-25 production resumption program, is believed with difficulties.
    A "Lun" could carry 6 "Mosquitoes" on the external mount. This is at least an equal number of Onyxes. If you need to quickly increase the striking power of the ship group - please, 10 ekranolets will bring 60 Onyxes.
    1. Maxom75
      Maxom75 29 July 2015 22: 54
      0
      maybe for the quick transfer of personnel and ground-based missiles to the islands? But expensive will turn out to be cheaper.
  22. barclay
    barclay 29 July 2015 17: 08
    0
    Yes, there is a lot of work for engineers and designers. But, having a unique backlog from Soviet times, Russia has a chance to acquire very effective weapons on the ocean, which will make any aggressor think about a lightning quick retaliation or preemptive strike.
    Americans will have such a thing, obviously "across the throat."
    Also, such a technique does not hurt for rescue purposes.
    In any case, you need to try: build, operate, and only then draw final conclusions.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 July 2015 17: 23
      -1
      All that remains is to do the most difficult - a new engine with high efficiency and minimum fuel consumption.
  23. abc_alex
    abc_alex 29 July 2015 17: 34
    0
    Quote: Vadim237
    All that remains is to do the most difficult - a new engine with high efficiency and minimum fuel consumption.


    The turboprop engines and turbojet engines for Orlenka and Lun were only modified versions of serial engines. We still need a new theater of operations, like a powerful turbojet engine.
  24. Old26
    Old26 29 July 2015 18: 39
    +1
    Quote: sichevik
    I agree with you, better late than never. But even earlier - much better. I remember at one time the tests of ekranoplanes in the Caspian Sea brought the amers to a form of stupor. If my memory serves me, they called them "Caspian monsters

    No one brought the Americans to a stupor. The Caspian Monster got its name solely because of its size ...

    Quote: Baikonur
    I have only one question for the ekranoplan (educate, who knows) - "And if - a storm?" Disruption of the operation? I do not pretend to be rated, just explain, who knows!

    And if the storm? Khan is not only an operation, but also possibly the ekranoplan itself. EMNIP allowable excitement no more than 2-3 points.

    Quote: Wedmak
    Everything is simple. If there is a storm, the enemy also has a failure

    Yah? Do displacement ships allow an excitement of 2-3 points? Or what? But how then is the permissible excitement for using weapons up to 6-7 points ???

    Quote: Telakh
    Wing "Lun" could move on the "screen" with sea waves up to six points (with a wave height of up to 4-6 meters)

    Yah???

    Quote: Wedmak
    What suddenly? At a speed of 300-400 km / h and with meteorological reports, it will quietly bypass the storm.

    Yes? Does it have such range characteristics? PRACTICAL range for the same "Orlyonok" 1500 km. So the radius of action ... If the storm is local, it can bypass it. And if not?

    Quote: shinobi
    To fill up an aircraft carrier, 2-4 missiles are required.

    This means that in order to overwhelm an aircraft carrier, according to the calculations of our specialists, up to 7 Kh-12 cruise missiles with a warhead weighing a ton were needed. And then 22-2 "Mosquito" with BG weighing one and a half kilograms will fill up ???? Don't tell my slippers

    Quote: shinobi
    Moves over the water just out of sight of radars, drags 8 "Granites" if memory serves

    Changes your memory. There was no smell of "granites" there. Total SIX "Mosquitoes" with a firing range of 100-120 km. Out of sight of radars is cool, of course. Except for the "Hawkeye" with a detection range of 600 km, 400 km from the AUG, "hanging" at an altitude of 8-9 km
    1. sniper
      sniper 29 July 2015 18: 51
      -1
      Quote: Old26
      ... The Caspian Monster got its name solely because of its size ...

      Well, here you are wrong, Vladimir ... The name was Ship Model - KM, and only journalists ... Well, they will become ... wassat
      Quote: Old26
      And if the storm?

      At the speed of 250 nodes, you can get away from any storm ...
      Quote: Old26
      . If the storm is local, it can bypass. And if not?

      Return to base ...
      Quote: Old26
      with weather report

      ... Except for the "Hawkeye" with a detection range of 600 km, 400 km from the AUG, "hanging" at an altitude of 8-9 km

      In those days, finding a target flying at a height of several meters above the surface of the water was an almost impossible task. Maybe now something has changed, alas, I don’t know ...
    2. Maxom75
      Maxom75 29 July 2015 22: 56
      0
      correction radius is not 1500, but 2000 km, although radish is not sweeter. In addition to the north of the application I do not see .. ((
  25. Old26
    Old26 29 July 2015 18: 40
    +5
    Quote: veksha50
    "The Central Design Bureau for the SEC named after R.E. Alekseev is developing a project for an ekranoplan of the oceanic zone with a takeoff weight of about 500 tons" ... Honestly, it was me who singled out ... the oceanic zone, and even the takeoff weight of 500 tons ...

    Everyone can develop here, and a lot. The question is whether it will make it to the hardware. How economically such an ekranoplan would be profitable. Nowadays, small passenger ekranoplanes (and even then not clean ones) for 20-30 passengers can be considered profitable

    Quote: veksha50
    The necessary thing, no doubt, and, say, in the Caspian Sea, the Black Sea and the Baltic - consider it a fire-breathing dragon and a powerful weapon ...

    In the Caspian, one can still agree. It was only checked in the Caspian Sea. Nobody knows how he will behave during a storm in the Black Sea and the Baltic.

    Quote: pticas
    He personally took part in the Orlyonok landing on the Caspian Sea. We took on board about 200 fighters in Baku and after 1 hour and 4 minutes, having already unloaded near Krasnovodsk (on the unequipped coast), we started back!

    In the absence of fire from the enemy. Speed ​​- yes, but this is the only plus compared to landing ships

    Quote: barclay
    Americans will have such a thing, obviously "across the throat."

    Have you heard anything about the American ekranoplan under the Pelican program?

    Quote: Vadim237
    All that remains is to do the most difficult - a new engine with high efficiency and minimum fuel consumption.

    And at the same time able to work in such an aggressive environment as sea water

    Quote: Max40
    I think they want to do for artyka.

    And will they overcome hummocks above or below them? laughing
    1. sniper
      sniper 29 July 2015 19: 05
      0
      Quote: Old26
      but this is the only plus compared to landing ships

      By no means, a landing ship can only land in narrowly limited sections of the coast that are known to the enemy. For ekranoplanes, there are no such restrictions, as well as for SVP.
      Quote: Old26
      on the Pelican program have you heard anything?

      It didn’t go beyond conversations and cuts, even after they literally sniffed our ekranoplanes ... They could not do it, although they tried ...
      Quote: Old26
      And at the same time able to work in such an aggressive environment as sea water

      they do not work in water, but in air, although splashes are present, as in seaplanes in particular ....
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 29 July 2015 20: 00
        +2
        Quote: sniper
        By no means, a landing ship can only land in narrowly limited sections of the coast that are known to the enemy. For ekranoplanes, there are no such restrictions,

        Well, let him try the ekranoplan (which "has no such restrictions") to make a landing here smile
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 29 July 2015 20: 04
          -1
          You showed a stretch of coast in 50 meters. With such good pebbles. And to the left? And to the right? Yes, even assuming that they make a ramp for landing directly into the water, there is nothing complicated. He came up, threw the landing into the water, left.
          1. atalef
            atalef 29 July 2015 20: 21
            +2
            Quote: Wedmak
            You showed a stretch of coast in 50 meters. With such good pebbles. And to the left? And to the right? Yes, even assuming that they make a ramp for landing directly into the water, there is nothing complicated. He came up, threw the landing into the water, left.

            Lord, how many articles about ekranoplanes have already been
            There will be none, not profitable. to no purpose. application is limited - a dead end branch of design thought. Well, it happens, everything seems beautiful, but it makes no sense.
            How much can these ekranoplanes procrastinate?
          2. pticas
            pticas 30 July 2015 06: 31
            0
            Everything was so! At the "Eaglet", the head part turned to the side and the ramps along which the equipment came out descended. (Up to 2 armored personnel carriers checked)
        2. sniper
          sniper 29 July 2015 21: 02
          0
          Quote: Bayonet
          Well, let him try the ekranoplan (which "has no such restrictions") to make a landing here

          Sasha, hello, by the way! drinks This is casuistry of the purest water, I can throw pictures where tanks will not pass, where turntables will not land, where ... In short, it can be proved that all the equipment is sheer nonsense ... wassat
          1. tlauicol
            tlauicol 30 July 2015 04: 34
            -1
            "For ekranoplanes, there are no such restrictions, as well as for SVP" - your words?
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet 30 July 2015 06: 20
            0
            Quote: sniper
            In short, it can be proved that the whole technique is sheer nonsense.

            Hi Nikolay, there is no need to prove that the whole technique is nonsense, it's just an answer to - "For ekranoplanes, there are no such restrictions." There are not so many smooth beaches, but there are many materials where all the pros and cons of ekranoplanes are described. Serious research, unfortunately, shows that the cons outweighs. yes
    2. Maxom75
      Maxom75 29 July 2015 23: 00
      +2
      he will fly over hummocks, that is no problem. Your laughter is not appropriate, the question is how will it take off and land on the ice with such a weight?
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. atamankko
    atamankko 29 July 2015 18: 55
    -1
    What to discuss is a promising business.
  28. VadimSt
    VadimSt 29 July 2015 19: 30
    -1
    Probably an interesting little thing? "Got" to the North Pole and no longer only hangs over North America, but several times reduces the possibility of intercepting their gifts.
  29. Old26
    Old26 29 July 2015 19: 34
    +2
    Quote: sniper
    Well, here you are wrong, Vladimir ... The name was Ship Model - KM, and only journalists ... Well, they will become

    Nikolay. Ours really called it KM. The West christened it "Caspian Monster" precisely because of its size. I don't remember exactly which of Jane's reference books, there was a small article about him, a very "muddy" satellite photo and a phrase like: Its dimensions are huge, it's some kind of monster. It was there that he was named "Caspian Monster". Quite by accident, our abbreviation and their name coincided in letters. This rarely happens, but nevertheless ...

    Quote: sniper
    At the speed of 250 nodes, you can get away from any storm ...

    Leave - yes

    Quote: sniper
    In those days, finding a target flying at a height of several meters above the surface of the water was an almost impossible task. Maybe now something has changed, alas, I don’t know ...

    The ranges were shorter, but this made the "target" shine on the radar screen in the same way. She was not small ...

    Quote: sniper
    By no means, a landing ship can only land in narrowly limited sections of the coast that are known to the enemy. For ekranoplanes, there are no such restrictions, as well as for SVP.

    I will not insist, but if I agree with the argument regarding the DKVP, then I think there would be problems with the ekranoplan. He could "get out" on the coast, but return to the water again? How difficult would it be to do it ???

    Quote: sniper
    It didn’t go beyond conversations and cuts, even after they literally sniffed our ekranoplanes ... They could not do it, although they tried ...

    Well, ours are only "talking" so far.

    Quote: sniper
    they do not work in water, but in air, although splashes are present, as in seaplanes in particular ....

    Nevertheless, the experts themselves argue that the resource is reduced significantly
    1. Throw
      Throw 29 July 2015 19: 45
      0

      Quote: sniper
      At the speed of 250 nodes, you can get away from any storm ...
      Leave - yes

      ..and so from the storms and run ..

      And when to fight?

      EP problems in comparison with aviation - low speed and dependence on weather conditions. EP always goes WEATHER. And he cannot go around the front from above. And then there is dependence on excitement ...
      1. Wedmak
        Wedmak 29 July 2015 20: 11
        +1
        EP always goes WEATHER

        I’ll tell you a secret. Any means of attack and defense work according to the weather. Any air defense systems or anti-ship missiles have restrictions on their use. If a storm comes with a hurricane, neither Aegis, nor C-300, nor other technical equipment will work. Everything will curl up and wait and pray.
    2. sniper
      sniper 29 July 2015 21: 12
      -1
      Quote: Old26
      He could "get out" on the coast, but return to the water again? How difficult would it be to do it ???

      Vladimir, well, you understand very well that it’s one thing to cover 2-5% of the coast from the landing, and it’s completely different to cover the entire coastline ... At this speed, the landing means cannot be predicted. Instant air strike and landing immediately. The enemy simply does not have time to transfer forces ...
      1. tlauicol
        tlauicol 30 July 2015 04: 39
        -1
        The trouble is that 2% of the coast (and preferably with additionally equipped sites) will be available to the landing force - what is there to predict?

        100% of the coast is accessible only by UDC, they will also be covered from the air
  30. Victor1
    Victor1 29 July 2015 20: 15
    0
    I am glad that work in this regard is resuming.
    No one else will have such equipment; the Americans did not manage to build an ekranoplan.
    speed 500km / h above the surface, tech. characteristics and weapons will surpass Lun, because it will be at least a deep modernization. And there will be no longer mosquitoes, but something modern.
    I would like the fate of the new combat ekranoplan to be more prosperous than that of its predecessor.
  31. pticas
    pticas 29 July 2015 20: 23
    0
    Some kind of conversation went to Khrushchev: "What the hell do we need battleships when there are missiles!"
    For any type of weapons, its own niche is used if someone is not in the know.
    Who said that ekranoplans will act alone?
  32. gridasov
    gridasov 29 July 2015 21: 09
    +1
    For those who understand that an ekranoplane is a derivative of the process of air injection under the wing, which means that the problem is in the aspect that "hot" turbines are not very consistent with the tasks, and the efficiency on propellers is not enough. This means that the movers must be conceptually different. The essence of such devices is that it is possible and necessary to use processes with break-in moments. Then, in the air flow distribution system, it is possible to spin the entire volume of air under the ekranoplan from one initiating propulsive device not only in the direction of the lift force, but also in all directions in azimuth.
  33. srha
    srha 29 July 2015 22: 50
    +1
    Again the tale of the white bull. Let me remind you of the news reprint of VO from September 25, 2010 "Serial production of Russian ekranoplanes will begin after 2015. This, as reported by RIA Novosti, said the general director of the Alekseev Central Design Bureau Sergei Platonov. According to him, the concept of creating a new generation ekranoplans in Russia will be presented the government of the country until October 2010. Previously, Russian Defense Minister Anatoly Serdyukov said that in the future it is planned to build large-capacity ekranoplanes ".

    Someone, well, really wants to smuggle a hybrid truck with a Formula 1 car in the air-sea version. And he promises that he will drive almost like a car, and carry like a truck. And as a result, both the efficiency of cargo delivery of the vessel and the mobility of the aircraft are lost. And the remaining stub is exorbitantly weighted even over the weight of the marine vessel, since the structure is very strange for the vessel, and therefore requires even greater strength-mass, it turns out to be not only ineffective, but also torn out of the system of interaction with related military forces - the squadron will not steal from it , and he will slow down air forces.

    In other words, to carry this boat (with a displacement of 380 tons) and a half from the airspeed
    corpscorps

    These wings are required
    wingswings

    And such motors
    motorsmotors

    photo from Ekranoplan "Lun" project 903 http://igor113.livejournal.com/51213.html
  34. fevg
    fevg 30 July 2015 00: 50
    0
    Quote: shuhartred
    ... If you are assigned a combat mission, then where will you go. And Boeing is still not a combat aircraft. Wing half plane half ship. Even if it splashes into the water, it won’t drown. What about the Boeing?
    They will not set a combat mission if the conditions for its implementation are not surmountable. In this case, weather conditions. For example, strong headwind, which does not allow reaching the target with the available fuel supply on board. what
    You can flop into the water in different ways: it depends on the angle of entry. wassat
  35. fevg
    fevg 30 July 2015 01: 40
    0
    Quote: gridasov
    For those who understand that the ekranoplan is a derivative of the process of air injection under the wing, which means that the problem is in the aspect that "hot" turbines are not very consistent with the tasks, and the efficiency on propellers is low. This means that the movers must be conceptually different. ...
    And for those who don't understand? You probably wanted to say "screen"? In Russian - an air cushion created by throwing air from the wing towards the surface. Indeed, at near-zero speeds, when starting from a standstill, it is necessary to create a lifting force of the wing forcibly, by air flow around the wing. Apparently the problems of the movers will be solved?
    Quote: gridasov
    The essence of such devices is that it is possible and necessary to use processes with break-in moments. Then in the distribution system of air flows it is possible from one initiating mover to unwind the entire volume of air under the winged wing, not only in the direction of lift, but also in all directions in azimuth.
    This, of course, is not clear. There can be many directions, but the azimuth is one or the other, and why, and where to spin the air, except to create lift? And, note, the flow must be laminar (stable), otherwise there will be no lifting force with the screen. If there is speed, there will be lifting force, and the propulsors will begin to work in marching mode, without wasting fuel in vain. For maneuvering there are air wheels.
  36. Vovan 73
    Vovan 73 30 July 2015 04: 48
    +1
    I personally love the Motherland very much. But as a person in the past as a military man, these "unnamed sources of the Ministry of Defense" really got it with their 3,143 pleasure. Here you make at least one SERIAL !!!! the car by 2020 and in 2020, then it is already proud and say so, and so Russia, in response to the intrigues of enemies, resumed production of combat ekranoplanes. And then we will restore the Tu-160 and we will build the PAK YES, and the T-50 will go into production by the 15th (and now by the 17th) year. All this looks like a threat of a slave flogged in a stable, who flogged his master. They say wait a minute, so I’ll take the pitchfork, and I’ll arrange it for you.
    So you first arrange this hoo-hoo, and then tryndit.
  37. Sars
    Sars 30 July 2015 05: 34
    0
    About two weeks ago I was flipping through the channels and got on RenTV. They showed a thread from accidents and other nonsense; So, on the video that I came across in the background above the water at a low altitude, two ekranoplanes in shape and size resembling a "harrier" flew in formation ...
  38. leon1204id
    leon1204id 31 July 2015 17: 24
    0
    All this is idle talk and banter about some sources. The resource of the ekranoplan idea is huge, but until someone behind the hill will apply it in military affairs and our helmsmen will not move.