India preferred "Apache" to "Night Hunter"

125


The Mi-28H helicopter manufactured by the Russian company Rostvertol lost in the largest tender for the supply of modern helicopters to India to the American attack helicopter Apache AH-64D. According to the Indian military command, “during tests, including with the use of combat arsenal, helicopters proved to be excellent combat units, but the American strike aircraft demonstrated its advantage in our most important characteristics — qualitative additional capabilities and use of the machine in any conditions. This is not the first failure of the Russian industrialists, in the spring of 2011 of the year, a tender was missed for the delivery of multi-purpose MiG-35 fighters to the Indian Air Force.

India preferred "Apache" to "Night Hunter"


At present, there are three tenders in India for the acquisition of helicopters for the Air Force, the first is 22 attack helicopters (which Russia has already lost), the second is 12 heavy transport helicopters, the third is 197 light helicopters. The approximate cost of all tenders is 2.5 billion dollars. The Russian side takes an active part in all tenders and so far there is no data on the results of the last two.

Our industrialists are hoping for victory in the tender for the supply of light helicopters, which will make it possible to become one of the major suppliers in India’s new market sector for Russia. At the moment, two major applicants are being tested - the Russian Ka-226T and AS550 Fennec. In case of winning the tender, Russia will replace the entire Indian fleet of light helicopters Alouette 2 / 3, used mainly in the mountainous regions of the country.



The tender for the supply of heavy helicopters also left two main bidders - the Russian Mi-26Т2 and the American CH-47F Chinook.



In the future, the Ministry of Defense of India plans to organize several more tenders for the purchase of rotary-wing equipment and a very interesting tender for Russia for the purchase of multipurpose attack helicopters for the country's Navy. According to rough estimates, in the next ten years, India will adopt about the newest helicopters around 700.

Not surprisingly, the decision of the Russian Defense Ministry to acquire a Mi-35М attack helicopter for army units is a variant of the Mi-24 helicopter for the foreign market.



“The Mi-35М helicopter is very easy to operate, and commissioning is much faster than the new and expensive Mi-28Н helicopter,” stress military experts. No one in the Ministry of Defense denies that new helicopters, such as the Ka-52 and Mi-28H, are today more perfect than their counterparts in service with our army, but when purchasing helicopters for the armed forces, the continuity of the helicopter was primarily considered and technical ease of management.

But all this does not mean that helicopters are not being supplied to the army at all, simply the volume of acquisitions of Ka-52 and Mi-28H series helicopters is currently minimal and amounts to no more than one third of all acquired helicopters by the Russian military in 2011.

History "Night Hunter"

When designing the newest attack helicopter, the developers from the Moscow Aviation Plant Design Bureau tried to take into account the nuances of using the helicopter in the military units of the Ground Forces - take-off and landing in any weather conditions and at any time, fuel interchangeability, standardization of ammunition, compatibility of controls and communications.

To create a helicopter, a unique situation developed, the main plants and companies were idle without orders at that time, and the OKB engineers used the facilities and reserves of the missile and space complex.

Mi-28N - the latest aviation a machine with a complex of avionics and a fifth-generation glider. New developments were installed: transmission, carrier system, improved reservation, tail rotor, spacing of the main control systems. Almost all the details of domestic production.

To increase the survivability of the Mi-28H, the following solutions were implemented:
- separation of engines on different sides and connecting them with the main gearbox to eliminate the possibility of engine damage with one volley or enemy shot;
- implementation of flight on one engine and operation of mechanical systems for some hour without lubrication;
- transition to pneumatic actuators, instead of the hydraulic actuators used on early helicopters;
- full booking of the cockpit, screening and duplication of the most important systems and units;
- duplicated and placed on the sides of the helicopter control systems and nodes of the electrical network.

Tests have shown that the helicopter, in general, withstands 7.62 caliber ammunition, frontal armored glass withstands 12.7 mm caliber ammunition, and the armored side of the helicopter will withstand 20-mm ammunition.

In terms of its flight and combat characteristics, the Mi-28H significantly exceeds the Apache AH-64D, but there are two main factors that reduce all the advantages of the Russian helicopter to none:
- American "Apache AH-64D" has long been in mass production, and, therefore, many design flaws have long been identified and corrected;

- The Russian helicopter does not have combat experience and experience in military conflicts, so it can be said that all the advantages of the helicopter are still a sketch on paper.

The main characteristics of the "Night Hunter":
- length 17 meters;
- height 3.8 meter;
- mass 10 tons;
- two TVZ-117ВМА engines;
- average speed 265 km / h;
- The average range of 500 km;
- high-rise ceiling 5.7 thousands of meters;
- number of pilots 2 person;
- the possibility of transporting 2 person

Armament:
- gun "2А42" caliber 30 mm, ammunition 300 shots;
- load on 4 suspension up to 1600 kg;
- four ATGM "Sturm";
- two launchers with 130 caliber NUR;
- 16 ATGM "Whirlwind"

Various schemes for installing additional weapons are possible, such as: grenade launchers, machine guns, aerial bombs, air-to-air missiles or mining blocks.
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125 comments
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  1. -33
    27 October 2011 09: 22
    Something the patriots are silent ....
    Didn’t like it?
    1. +34
      27 October 2011 09: 57
      What should we worry about? More excellent helicopters will enter its troops, and when India gets burned while servicing the Apaches, as it has already burned, "two-thirds of the AN-TPQ-2002 artillery reconnaissance radar complexes acquired from the USA in 37 are inoperative due to lack of maintenance." ...
      Then she wagging the torso will sing Indy Russia Phai Phai, but the price of the Mi-28 will already be different
      1. itr
        -2
        27 October 2011 10: 50
        it's time to ban arms trading altogether
        To arm only your army, but what is worthless to offer to neighboring countries
        Well, by this time the hype will appear on its own
        Forbidden fruit is always sweeter
        1. Uncle Sam
          -1
          27 October 2011 11: 55
          And also gas and oil and forest. Harakiri is called.
          1. itr
            +3
            27 October 2011 13: 49
            and what sell oil oil and other products for rubles
            what do you think the ruble will become
            1. Phoenixl
              0
              27 October 2011 14: 35
              In exchange for such requirements, we will also begin to insert sticks into the wheels
              Money supply value depends on GDP
              1. itr
                0
                28 October 2011 07: 41
                For some reason I was thinking about guarantees of a gold reserve, well, the edge of raw materials
            2. KASKAD
              0
              27 October 2011 22: 29
              What do you think, how many enterprises will remain in Russia then working for export? Want to destroy the whole industry in one fell swoop?
          2. +10
            27 October 2011 15: 11
            That's just gas / oil / timber banning trade for the cordon is just very worth it !!! By trading in antimony and semi-finished products, our state seriously clogs the development of "full cycle" production (such as good money, constant demand, minimum claims to quality, and not everyone who wants to be a competitor ...) On a certain side, and tenders for the supply of high-tech weapons we we lose for the same reason.
      2. +4
        27 October 2011 23: 25
        Vadivak,
        I agree !!! What should go to the troops goes beyond the "hillock", and we again ... we stay on the "maize" to fly. Let these helicopters remain with us, and even the planes that were supposed to be exported to India was returned to us to go! They are Russifying and in formation, our troops ... I believe that first of all the army should get the new thing, and only then export. And besides, keep something in a stash, like the Pindos and Jews keep in secretly, some of their developments, and they sell old stuff ... That's how it should be, but we have the loot in the first place ...
      3. dmitri077
        -4
        28 January 2012 22: 50
        "What should we worry about? More excellent helicopters will go to our troops," - naivety the disease is not chronic, it cures over time lol nobody will creep up to you and do not dream
      4. GAMER0761GB
        +1
        20 February 2012 11: 12
        True, you say ... Most likely they refused our Mi-28x because they were not tested in battle, i.e. his fighting qualities on the battlefield were not known ......
    2. +4
      27 October 2011 09: 58
      And you seem to be a statistician, you record the actions of patriots, also to me, - there was a "bad guy" ...
      1. 0
        27 October 2011 10: 17
        No, I don’t fix it, it’s just ridiculous to look at your comments.
        If mi-28 had won the tender, then everyone would have written in boiling water, but now they are silent. More to such articles ....
        1. +1
          27 October 2011 10: 35
          Unpleasant, but reality, so what? But you - rejoice. They will modify the car if the claims are really significant.
        2. +3
          27 October 2011 17: 25
          Joker, what did you personally do for your native country? unless of course Russia is your own? you write in boiling water when failures pour in on her? what else? By the way, somehow it would not be logical (agree) to see the joyful exclamations of the patriots (yes, there are some in Russia, unlike you) with unpleasant news and vice versa - when there is something to be glad, why people should not show their joy happy for the country?
          1. +18
            27 October 2011 17: 36
            What have I done for the country? Well, I organized 125 jobs for its residents, and to them I pay a salary. I do not write boiling water, and I wrote my comment only because you annoy me with your stupid room patriotism. The country is falling apart because of people like you, and you sit and patriotically discuss on forums where the capital of Russia will be if it unites with Ukraine. Go down from heaven and live in reality, we have absolutely no problems for which you are tearing each other's throats on the forums. That’s why I’ve been writing aggressive comments lately.
            And about the problems, so I think that we have one basic one, NO ONE WANTS TO DO ANYTHING EXCEPT AS A LANGUAGE TO TORRY. That's all, my personal opinion.
            1. +3
              27 October 2011 17: 51
              and who is this "you"? you also sit here on the forum. Only instead of positive patriots whom you despise so much, bile is poured out here. And at the same time you consider yourself a hard worker? somehow, in Mikhalkov's way, straight, consider yourself a god))) Tell me, what kind of patriotism is not indoor and not stupid? this one that is yours? and because of what, how am I (or we) the country is falling apart? what is destructive in my actions (or ours)? can you be more specific? but, this is probably because people are happy with their achievements and their country (when they are, of course). Yes?
              1. +5
                27 October 2011 17: 58
                No, rejoice as much as you want, I’m also happy, I don’t consider myself a god. A patriot is not a roommate; he is that patriot who reinforces his words with actions, and not just thrashes his tongue, everyone threshes, and the country will fall apart further, and you will thresh further. I do not swear with anyone and do not stand on any side, so as not to be a room patriot. What I do not like, I say directly.
                1. +1
                  27 October 2011 18: 34
                  Joker, there is a variant more terrible than your "indoor patriots", this is the case - "indoor vegetables", which "parallel" the fact that our military-industrial complex has not the best days, that's where the trouble lies. And people here at least resent our failures.

                  (and good luck to you)
                  1. -3
                    27 October 2011 18: 51
                    And what has changed from your indignation? Or are they buying helicopters and tanks for your indignation?
                2. +2
                  27 October 2011 18: 35
                  being on anyone's side is the most convenient thing. And at the same time consider yourself better than others for some reason. And you and the communists are reptiles and patriots of Russia for some reason entirely "room", parasites. One you are a hard worker. Something better than the Mi-28 was created
            2. +7
              28 October 2011 01: 36
              Joker, so suggest action. And you also need to "chat with your tongue". At least from this forum, I realized that 90% of Russians are on the same wavelength - for Russia, independent from the outside world, for people like Gaddafi, against any NATO crap, and at the same time against the orange revolutions. It means a lot to me. We must be united on the most global issues, nevertheless continuing to argue about "important little things" And what to do? We will definitely come up with something. Personally, I soon dive into American forums (with the accumulated interesting information) and begin to open the eyes of their people to the truth. Information war is called - her mother is so.
            3. dmitri077
              -3
              28 January 2012 23: 00
              "What have I done for the country? Well, I have organized 125 jobs for its inhabitants, and I also pay them a salary." - I agree inside and out! a paragraph of fresh air in the murky sea of ​​"paatsriots" ... computer fighters with world imperialism and masonry .. there would be more such users
          2. Warvik
            0
            28 October 2011 22: 56
            And what is it with you (you and your little one, since I do not respect such layouts) it always turns out that a person owes for the Russian state, and not as it is necessary that a state is for a person. Let's think logically: 1) who created the state? (the answer is by a man, by you, by me, by us), 2) What was it created for? (the answer is to protect my, your, our interests), 3) For whose resources should the state protect us? (the answer is for ours: money, and money received from the sale of minerals that were found in our land), 4) Whose interests is the state protecting at the moment? (the answer is officials and the "chosen ones" as well. (just don't blame the Jews :))
      2. +2
        27 October 2011 11: 49
        I propose not to pay attention to govnotrol, it’s obvious that such ubl ... dkov should not be fed.
        1. -6
          27 October 2011 12: 11
          Who are you to?
          1. +3
            27 October 2011 13: 29
            this is he for you!
            1. -6
              27 October 2011 13: 40
              damn, and I thought to you sad
        2. Jaguar
          -4
          27 October 2011 17: 46
          is that to you below? Where 8 Apache AH Mk 1 turned into one AH-64D
    3. LESHA pancake
      +3
      27 October 2011 15: 29
      AND WHAT HERE TO Cry. NECESSARY TO TURN A SLEEVE AND MAKE A TURNWAY BETTER THAN Pindos' TECHNIQUE.
      1. -1
        27 October 2011 16: 33
        Nobody cries, no reason. We'll get more. "Apache" has long been "run in" in hot spots and not singly but in whole series. Do we need hot spots?
      2. +7
        27 October 2011 17: 37
        And we already have them, ka-52, but they don’t sell it to anyone and do it right.
        mi-28 lost because it's damp yet.
        1. 0
          27 October 2011 18: 27
          "Tarantula" is easier to control and master than "Alligator".
          In addition, they have the same weapons.
          I believe that the Alligator is suitable for solving the tasks of the Navy, since it can easily be based on ships.
          "Tarantula" is a very promising car, but we are lagging behind in electronics, but it can be solved, the main thing is that the car itself is excellent, "Apache" does not match it, however, due to the "filling" the lag is leveled.
          I am sure the Mi-28 will become the main army attack helicopter of the Russian Federation, and our allies.
          1. +1
            27 October 2011 20: 59
            The Mi-28 has a smaller combat radius than the Apache.
            1. -1
              27 October 2011 21: 23
              You are most likely confusing the combat radius with the ferry range.
              The combat radius is practically the same, however, the Apache ferry range is higher.
        2. +1
          27 October 2011 20: 54
          Finally in the subject.
        3. itr
          -2
          28 October 2011 07: 45
          We don’t buy it for ourselves either.
          In general, what made a united company there will be no competition when
          then there will be no helicopter
    4. SL.Kocegar
      -2
      28 October 2011 08: 21
      (http://www.arms-expo.ru/049049057051124053049057.htmlhttp://www.military-inform
      er.narod.ru/MI171.html) I’ll say to the attached information if I lost somewhere, then I won somewhere
    5. Tjumenec72
      -2
      28 October 2011 08: 46
      You look at the volume of the party - 22! To believe, India wants to look at all sorts of electronic Pribluda for combat. And even on our Schaub crush similar offers. The night hunter, strange as it sounds, is not super at night! Kamovites will be richer.
    6. Gur
      -3
      28 October 2011 11: 05
      Well, what can I say .. ?? Again, you start to lay out on the shelves that brought the country to the handle and that it is necessary to raise and defend the country .. 10 times a day already tired. You can probably say this in reproach to you .. well, that you like this state of affairs, does it make you happy? So it’s young that we will gradually sift through it .. so the same Apaches will soon ply directly along the borders of the Russian Federation. Well, here you are and people like you .. everyone is singing a song about his barn, and that, God forbid, what thread changes didn’t touch him.
    7. dmitri077
      -1
      28 January 2012 22: 54
      "Something the patriots are silent ...
      Didn't you like it? "- but what to answer to the loud fiasco? ... lol a time-tested killer with state-of-the-art electronics broke another bluff of the Russian military-industrial complex like an ace heating pad! ... another lesson: time is money!
      1. slas
        0
        13 February 2012 19: 57
        helped to tear?
  2. +3
    27 October 2011 09: 54
    Such decisions are made taking into account other factors besides TTX, perhaps the Indians won politically.
    And the Milians will have to modify the car, apparently again the electronics are lagging behind. Discard the principle - "and so it will do"!
    1. Alexey Prikazchikov
      +1
      27 October 2011 10: 27
      No, here the politics played the fact that the Indians are obsessed with diversifying the supply of defense products.
      1. Ion coaelung
        +2
        27 October 2011 11: 08
        Well, kickbacks to traitors of the Indian homeland should not be rejected? After all, it’s not only our people who are trying to bribe!
    2. -3
      27 October 2011 11: 48
      No one is guided by such principles; there is TK and it is being implemented.
      1. -2
        27 October 2011 18: 12
        Varnaga, as I understand it, you are "in the subject", since you say that you are guided by the TK?
        I proceed from what the engineer said about themselves (for which there is a separate respect).
        1. -2
          27 October 2011 19: 13
          So all enterprises of the military-industrial complex work on technical requirements determined by the customer in the person of the Moscow Region, except for works carried out on an initiative basis. I hope that I did not discover America?)
      2. Gosta
        -2
        27 October 2011 18: 20
        In terms of TK? You want to say that the Mi-28 was designed according to the technical specifications of India in order to participate in the competition?
  3. Sergh
    0
    27 October 2011 10: 35
    Yes, at least in Somalia they would have thrown him about a dozen, while there zamorushka, let him chase for free, or else sit in Torzhok.
    1. Volkhov
      -1
      27 October 2011 11: 42
      In Africa, for free, and so heaps of equipment and personnel, the Kuril Islands were swept away from the tanks, themselves with a bare bottom. In the army, cadres are selected from "psychological children", whom only to drive, and why - it does not matter.
      1. -2
        28 October 2011 13: 59
        won the Kuril Islands from the tanks,

        Where does this data come from? I have other information.
        http://www.sdelanounas.ru/blogs/8252/?PHPSESSID=30274a98ffda3af602923d76b2ebc751
        1. Volkhov
          +1
          31 October 2011 00: 10
          On your link near Moscow, and the export - on this site: The latest T-55 of Russia

  4. +17
    27 October 2011 11: 46
    Let's figure it out. MI-28 lost in such parameters as all-weather and applicability. There is nothing surprising in this, because still in the development of night vision and radar systems, the completion of which is drawing to a close. Further, the very participation of Russia in such a competition is a great achievement, because the mass production of MI-28N only began in 2008. The same Apache was launched in 1986. I can also recall that Apache and Night Hunter are finalists of the competition, in which such companies like Bell Helicopter, Eurocopter, AgustaWestland. Those who wish can familiarize themselves with the history of their withdrawal.
    And now some interesting facts about Apache. No serial production of Apache Longbow Block III is underway - this is another modernization of the old Apache Longbow Block II. It boils down to the use of composite propeller blades, T700-GE-701D engines, a new flight control system, as well as equipment upgrades for night operations. All. It is also worth remembering the resource of the rest of the iron, so the Indians - technicians - a big hello. Now let's talk about the obvious drawbacks of Pindo junk:
    -From the unthinkable inf. load - piloting Apache is extremely difficult (the Swedes also noted this, comparing it to MI-28).
    - Apache requires 18 four-ton trucks, 7 trailers, 5 tankers, 3 forklift trucks, 2 motorcycles, an eight-ton truck, and a fire truck.
    - An Apache flight hour requires 32 man-hours of ground work. For each pilot, there are six highly qualified ground specialists.
    -Preparing for takeoff means over a thousand clicks on different buttons. In total, this takes thirty minutes, twenty-two of which the helicopter is already with its engines running. If you are in a hurry, you can catch up in fifteen. If you try even faster, then something will have to be turned on already in the air - without any confidence that it will work. In such a hurry, you can, for example, lose encrypted radio channels or pictures from an infrared camera. By comparison, the Chinook takes five minutes to prepare for takeoff.
    - NAR and Hellfires can be transported on suspensions for a limited time - their mechanisms are calibrated from vibration and must be sent back to the factory.
    So good luck to the Indians.
    Those interested, by the way, can buy the book of the English pilot Edward Macy Apache: Inside the Cockpit of the World's Most Deadly Fighting Machine. Learn even more interesting things.
    1. mitrich
      +5
      27 October 2011 11: 56
      Varnaga,
      buying at a loss, right?
      I heard that Indians are very dissatisfied with Russia because of their blocking of oxygen to access Russian technology on missile topics.
    2. -3
      27 October 2011 11: 58
      - Apache requires 18 four-ton trucks, 7 trailers, 5 tankers, 3 forklift trucks, 2 motorcycles, an eight-ton truck, and a fire truck.

      You forgot about pedal horses, horse-drawn carts and green locomotives ...

      18 trucks? on one cap, on another boot and further down the list ...
      5 tankers? This is 20 tons of kerosene on 5 will turn out 100 tons. You are not confused with Jumbo?
      1. Phoenixl
        +2
        27 October 2011 12: 23
        He just had to try to crap!

        No serial production of Apache Longbow Block III is underway - this is another modernization of the old Apache Longbow Block II. It boils down to the use of composite propeller blades, T700-GE-701D engines, a new flight control system, as well as equipment upgrades for night operations.

        Is there only a case from the old car? =)
      2. -1
        27 October 2011 12: 27
        "You forgot about pedal horses, horse-drawn carts and green steam locomotives ..." Do you have anything to say on the topic?
        mitrich, it is obvious that some + outweighed the rest - also do not write off political and economic moments.
        1. +2
          27 October 2011 14: 51
          Do you yourself understand how this can be? In your opinion, ONE Apache squadron requires (hold on !!!) 216 four-ton trucks, 84 trailers, 60 tankers, 36 forklift trucks, 24 motorcycles, 12 eight-ton trucks and 12 fire engines.
          Would you like to fix your previous post?
          1. 0
            27 October 2011 15: 00
            This is not for me, but for the Pindos, so you can send your offer to them. A simple example, when designing and manufacturing new products in our office for LOI, they like to include various devices, laptops, etc., in the general calculation, although almost all the equipment is available. Anticipating outrage over the cut, I can say that everything is fully justified. Feel what I'm leading to?
            1. +4
              27 October 2011 15: 07
              This is not for me, but for the Pindos,


              Share the source of information please. Not in order to convict you of anything, but solely for the study of materiel.

              For example, the coordinates of Bagram Afghanistan are 34 ° 56'24.90 "N 69 ° 15'17.91" E. There are at least two squadrons of Apaches, and even more than fifty other aircraft. Moreover, on the territory of the base there are thousands of servicemen of different types of troops, and even in spite of this there are not so many vehicles. I can post satellite photos if you are interested.
              1. 0
                27 October 2011 15: 43
                In the first post I wrote about the pilot and his book, it costs only 11 bucks, who read it, it is very praised. In general, if you set a goal, then you can google more, but this will already go beyond the commentary. For example,
                "The US Army, which intends to adopt a total of 2026 of these Apaches by 689. Do you think this is cool? But you still do not know the main thing: Of this number, only 56 machines (8%) will be new construction, at that time like the remaining 643 - the old, used Apache Longbow Block II helicopters upgraded to the Block III version. In fact, I suppose there will be no new helicopters at all. It is obvious that Boeing will first upgrade the old helicopters (which, of course, is easier and cheaper than building new ones), and most likely the order will be reduced - so it will simply not come to assembling a new one. I wonder why then these 56 new machines were needed at all. And the answer to it is very simple - used Apache Longbow Block II in stock only 643 pieces, the rest have already been lost or written off due to the complete exhaustion of the resource. And to staff a certain number of existing battalions, 689 helicopters are needed. So the military scored such a number - although everyone understands perfectly well that in the current circumstances it is good if they give money for half the cars. "
                1. 0
                  27 October 2011 15: 51
                  In the first post I wrote about the pilot and his book, it costs only 11 bucks, who read it, they really praise it.

                  Dear, not all books are equally useful ...
                  Either you misunderstood something there or the author simply twisted it. Sometimes there are difficulties with the translation. However, the amount of equipment for one Apache cannot be what you represent it here.
                  1. +1
                    27 October 2011 19: 01
                    Yes, I can’t imagine anything, I only cited the opinion of the British pilot, how he relates, your business. I just think that no one will argue that Apache is inferior to MI-28 in the given parameters. As well as MI-28, it is inferior to Apache in terms of parameters due to which he lost the competition. It seems to me that this is just a tribute to justice, do you see here just a lot of "all-fledged" people, why not show them the situation from a slightly different angle? request
                2. Jaguar
                  0
                  27 October 2011 17: 21
                  why didn’t they write that the pilot in his book wrote about Apache AH Mk 1, and not about AH-64D. There is a significant difference between them, Well, the maintenance of Apache is not an easy task. Eight Apaches require 18 four-ton trucks, 7 trailers, 5 tankers, 3 forklift trucks, 2 motorcycles, 5 vanes, an eight-ton truck and a fire truck.
                  1. 0
                    27 October 2011 19: 02
                    Jaguar, thanks for correcting, I will mean smile
          2. Jaguar
            +2
            27 October 2011 16: 35
            18 four-ton trucks, 7 trailers, 5 tankers, 3 forklift trucks, 2 motorcycles, an eight-ton truck and a fire truck are required for 8, not one Apache
            1. -4
              27 October 2011 16: 42
              Why do you think so? Maybe not for 8, but for 16 ... winked
              1. Jaguar
                +2
                27 October 2011 17: 26
                http://a-lamtyugov.livejournal.com/500706.html тот кто "прочитал и похвалил"
    3. +1
      27 October 2011 12: 44
      Ah, well done! It was necessary to head your article! Ah, then the Pindos prostitutes. Are nervous!
    4. 0
      27 October 2011 13: 22
      Interesting information about the "miracle helicopter" from the USA ... Thanks for the information.
    5. +1
      27 October 2011 13: 33
      Varnaga, listen, I didn’t understand. Motorcycles are for what? wink
      1. +1
        27 October 2011 14: 46
        pilots chase hamburgers on them, while technicians try to "start the turntable" winked
        1. -1
          27 October 2011 23: 15
          And for one and a little girl of the local ride)
    6. dmitri077
      -1
      28 January 2012 23: 13
      "So good luck to the Indians." - ha-ha, aren't Indians like that? nightmare wink with such a pace soon no one will be left in the column "friends-colleagues" the awn takes over! with your logic - "how complicated everything is, I'm afraid I won't figure it out" - the hang glider in the teeth and forward to the Washington "regional committee"! India is torn by leaps and bounds to high technology! will master over time, there would be a desire! but where, by this time we will all be, this is a question! for another 10 years, we will master the aging MI-28, until the whole world finally switches to unmanned vehicles ...
  5. -1
    27 October 2011 11: 47
    No sdes politics played a thing

    and it is stupid to admit that the "Apache" at this stage is not the best car?
    The night hunter is still a "not rolled" car, it has been serially produced since 2008, and in fact is not a "night hunter". For him, the development of a night vision system and a radar is still underway!
    the armament nomenclature is worse than that of Apache at the moment.
    Apache - a proven machine
    The Indian Ministry of Defense announced that the military preferred the American helicopter, as it managed to show superiority in such characteristics as all-weather and possible applications. In turn, the Mi-28NE lost because it could not satisfy 20 points in the list of tender requirements.
    (this is from the years of ru)
    1. -10
      27 October 2011 12: 14
      Nah, why admit it, our room patriots with foam at the mouth will prove that this is all specially tuned,
  6. svvaulsh
    0
    27 October 2011 12: 47
    Again, the article suffers from inaccuracies. Again about the "fifth" generation, the crew - 2 pilots. The author needs to know how the pilot differs from the operator, or to correct other articles before laying out.
  7. -1
    27 October 2011 14: 11
    By the way, apachedrochery can dazzle the same at home
    http://imageshost.ru/photo/71906/id996089.html
  8. Maksim
    +1
    27 October 2011 14: 25
    God grant that we won, the pendos has a kovtelik technique, and here it is the best in the world and the best Ka-52 helicopter in the world is the Alligator.
    1. -13
      27 October 2011 14: 36
      Your alligator will be knocked down by plane, they have enough of this stuff.
      1. Maksim
        +1
        27 October 2011 21: 42
        and your Pendos Apache will be knocked down by plane. as you said
  9. -1
    27 October 2011 15: 07
    nasty nubotrol at work am he can't lick his yakindos in the anus (probably far away), here on the forum and "minus, look how many he poured to the supporters of Russia wink
    1. Phoenixl
      -4
      27 October 2011 15: 24
      Greasy! You need a diet, otherwise you’ll completely swim =)
  10. Owl
    -2
    27 October 2011 15: 57
    The phrase about ordering MI-35 helicopters for the Russian Armed Forces suggests that the main purpose will be participation in slow counterinsurgency wars, participation in local conflicts (like a "five-day" war) and participation in exercises.
  11. +3
    27 October 2011 16: 58
    It's time for the Russian Army to buy everything from NATO as well. And why, the rifles are English, the tanks are German, the helicopter carriers are French. Leave the form from Yudashkin, but it will be glamorous. And if without jokes, then the outfit in the West for the army is better than ours. They don’t save on people.
    1. +1
      27 October 2011 21: 29
      I would not say. Our cotton is better than the Bundeswehr.
      1. 0
        28 October 2011 06: 49
        It was better.
  12. -1
    27 October 2011 17: 49
    India is drawn into the orbit of NATO, this can explain the refusal to cooperate with Russia.
    A very disturbing fact.
    However, do not despair.
    Russia may find a new partner in the person of Iran.
    Iran is a geopolitical ally of the Russian Federation.
    A number of joint programs should be offered to Iran.
    For example, the joint creation of the STELS light front-line fighter (with the R-179M engine) to replace the aging MiG-29.
    And Iran will gladly buy the Tarantulas, as our helicopter is superior to the Cobra in many respects.
    1. +1
      27 October 2011 18: 00
      Have you also noticed that they throw us all over again for the umpteenth time? This is not what they see in us as authority.
      1. +1
        27 October 2011 23: 26
        Yes, I noticed: you and your supporters have a negative rating)
        1. 0
          28 October 2011 08: 38
          Yes, negative, this is by analogy when Russia decides for itself and does not listen to anyone, so all Western countries begin to hate it, and when our president clowns and ass licks everyone, everyone in the West is happy with this. So it is here.
  13. +2
    27 October 2011 18: 07
    Of course you are right.
    We lose credibility by following the lead of the United States and Israel (remember, refusal of supplies, already about the paid (!) S-300).
    It should be more firm and consistent in matters of military-technical cooperation.
    1. +1
      27 October 2011 19: 06
      Here you are wrong, the Iranians paid only an advance ... for which they later wanted to get the whole lot, refusing to pay the rest. Of course, they were shaved, and it was just the UN resolution that was in time, an excellent excuse.
      1. -2
        27 October 2011 19: 33
        Please provide a link to the source of information.
  14. PLO
    -1
    27 October 2011 18: 55
    here is a comment from the military-industrial complex, knowledgeable people comment: is it true or not?

    http://vpk.name/news/59802_novyii_ne_znachit_luchshii.html

    The author of the article about the American M230 Chain Gun gave incorrect information. Nice gun. The muzzle velocity of its projectiles is not 550 but 805 m / s, and accordingly the maximum firing range is 4500 m (effective 1500 m). The main ammunition for it is the shot with the M789 projectile. M789 - a cumulative fragmentation projectile whose armor penetration does not depend on the range. The armor penetration of the M789 - 25 mm of homogeneous steel armor at an angle of 60 degrees is sufficient against light armored vehicles. An armor-piercing tracer (BT) projectile fired from a 2A42 cannon demonstrates a similar armor penetration at a distance of no more than 500 m, and a new armor-piercing-sub-caliber (BP) projectile at a distance of no more than 1500 m. detachable pallet РМС303 for 30-mm guns 2A42 (2A72). The penetration of this projectile at a distance of 1000 m is 47 mm of steel homogeneous armor at an angle of 60 degrees, and 38 mm at a distance of 2000 m (also at an angle of 60 degrees). I wouldn't be surprised if the Indians buy such ammunition for their BMP-2. Short bursts (video of shootings) of a 30 mm cannon are enough to hit typical targets. The range of supersonic (1,1 M) AGM-114K HELLFIRE 2 is not 6-7 but 9 km. "Attack-V" has a range of 8 km only for the 9M120M missile, and "the most effective use of the" Attack "missile at ranges from 800 to 4000 m". It is safe to say that the Mi-28NE lost the Indian tender because its weapon lost. I hope for the Mi-28NM, the adoption of which is scheduled for 2015, we will see an ATGM with radar guidance that will not interfere with fog, rain, snow, dust and smoke
    1. Jaguar
      +1
      28 October 2011 11: 51
      Quote: olp
      we will see ATGMs with radar guidance that will not be interfered with by fog, rain, snow, dust or smoke
      This Hermes-A is visible, but:
      "The US Army, Navy and Marine Corps intend to spend about $ 33 billion on the purchase of 71 JAGM (Joint Air-to-Ground Missile) air-to-surface missiles," The Arizona Republic reports. the American company Lockheed Martin and the Raytheon / Boeing consortium The new JAGMs will replace three types of missiles in service with the United States at once - BGM-114 TOW, AGM-65 Hellfire and AGM-XNUMX Maverick.

      As expected, the US Army tender for the supply of missiles will end on May 31, 2011, and the winner of the competition will be announced no earlier than two months later. The JAGM is 1,8 meters long and 17,8 centimeters in diameter. The mass of the rocket is 48,9 kilograms. According to the requirements of the military, JAGM must hit enemy ground targets at a distance of at least 28 kilometers.

      According to Raytheon, the main advantage of its solution is an uncooled warhead with an infrared guidance system. Such a guidance system allows you to get rid of complex cooling systems, respectively reducing the mass of the rocket. At the same time, the integration of ammunition into the weapon systems of helicopters and aircraft already adopted for service is greatly simplified.

      Lockheed Martin, in turn, claims that its JAGM version uses semi-active laser and infrared-guided heads based on the AGM-114 Hellfire, AGM-114L Longbow Hellfire and FGM-148 Javelin missile warheads. According to the company, these systems allow for increased accuracy of the ammunition.

      The US military plans to adopt a new missile in 2016. It will join the armament range of the AH-64D Apache Longbow, MH-60R \ S Seahawk, AH-1Z Viper helicopters, MC-1C Gray Eagle drones and F / A-18E / F Super Hornet and F-35 Lightning II fighters. Taking into account the value of contracts for the development and testing of JAGM, the total volume of the program is estimated at seven billion dollars. "
      1. ereke
        +1
        28 October 2011 17: 40
        Purely the weapon itself may be old development, but of course modernized, the M230 cannon. Soviet 2A42 is the same in terms of parameters. And it's not about missiles. The main thing is that the "Apache" sees well both day and night, at any time of the day at any visibility. They do not have a dashboard, but a display that displays, among other things, online images from thermal imagers and fiber optic sights (on a clear day). The pilot and the operator see everything on the display as if on TV, down to the smallest detail. How many people are standing on the street and what they have in their hands (if in the city) or in the gorge (if in the mountains) at a distance of 1,5 kilometers, they may not see this helicopter. It is enough to aim the crosshair at a certain person displayed on the display or at a whole group of people, the cannons will turn themselves, the operator has to press the trigger (if a command is received) and the gun will start working. (As was the case in Iraq, the helicopter hung and saw a group of journalists displayed on the display, everything was in detail. They did not notice that the Apache was hanging in the distance, and stood near the van. In addition, there is a GPS satellite navigator, which can be used to obtain data on terrain and what and who is on it. The satellite constantly scans the terrain and transmits data to the Apache with an accuracy of up to 10 centimeters, In which case the satellite can illuminate with a laser and aim at a target for accuracy. ), only their head of self-knowledge is improved and has a more perfect algorithm of action.High-resolution thermal imager with a target of up to 5 kilometers.There are also helmets for pilots, which displays everything that all sights, radar and electronic optics see.But watch the movie Blue Thunder Thunder. Released back in 1983. There, just before the Apache was put into service (1984), all elements of the Apache combat support are shown in action. It is a little embellished (for example, pilots hear what people of interest to them say on the ground), but mostly corresponds to reality. The same moment when the pilots in the mode of hovering in the air near a high-rise building, in front of the window, at night, see in the thermal imager the silhouettes of people standing behind blackout curtains




        The helicopter cannot boast of high speed, like combat aircraft, and you need to sneak up on the enemy unnoticed.To do this, you need to see him at the beginning both night and day, and not vice versa so that they see you and hide or shoot. The Apache gives such an opportunity, to see from afar, and it is good to see and determine the goal. Using high-rise buildings for cover, if in the city or in the folds of the terrain in the mountains, you can quickly fly at ultra-low altitudes at a distance of a kilometer and destroy the enemy, if they are people, from any cannon, even if it will be an old small-caliber three-barreled gun from a "cobra" or a newer "volcano falanx" "
        1. ESCANDER
          -1
          28 October 2011 22: 04
          ereke
          --- "As it was in Iraq, a helicopter (Apache) was hanging and saw a group of journalists displayed on the display, all the details."

          To the storyteller!
          And you do not know that this group of journalists was destroyed by this Apache? On the Internet, the Pindos themselves laid out the video.
          I mean - a cool Apache on cool displays in the middle of daylight spotted a group of magazines, Pts carefully examined them and decided to bang!
          And he banged!
          Well, you can understand whether Apache, Abrams - everything is one.
          1. ereke
            -2
            28 October 2011 22: 15
            Yes, this display displays an image, they saw men who were not militants, the pilot who posted the video from the "Apache" to the Internet said that he had a camera in his hand. But other pilots began to deny this. Saying in his hand could be anything, any portable weapon. The case was hushed up. And the pilot who posted the massacre from the "Apache" was fired from the US Army
            1. ESCANDER
              0
              28 October 2011 22: 40
              But why can’t they tell the Apache’s cool displays from “anything”?
              They spotted them for a long time and hung, waiting for the permission for destruction requested earlier. At how much time do they need to distinguish a terrorist from a journalist on a white day? And you count, if it was night and the dudes really had some kind of seedy stingers? They cho, would give Pindos so many handicap balls in their cool displays to hollow?
              They would have funerals now (otherwise they give evidence, you see ...)
              1. ereke
                -4
                28 October 2011 23: 01
                ub-ok, the last time I answer you. They saw everything, but they did not know what kind of people they were, what their names were and where they did not hear what they were talking about, and it is clear that all these people are Arabs, the same people in civilian clothes, in T-shirts and summer trousers, shoot from grenade launchers. But there is such a psychological factor in war, when a man goes crazy. In this case, the flight commander went crazy. And he gave the command to open fire. And everyone went into a rage and began to wet and could not stop further in a state of passion. They then saw that an ambulance had arrived, they were asked what happened there and why they were shooting. The Apache pilots fled the scene of the massacre. Then the reconnaissance "Kiowa" flew up. In the picture, everything is clear to an outsider who is not in this war, that they shoot at people completely outsiders and have nothing to do with the militants. Wow, you can see it as well as others who watched this video. Then there was a scandal after viewing all the data from the "Apache" among the command and in the United States itself, but the case was hushed up. There were many such examples, one lieutenant freaked out, broke into an Arab house with his assigned patrol and shot everyone who was there, including the women. But they could sue him and put him in prison, he could not otmazatsya, unlike helicopter pilots, and explain the reason for such an act
                1. ESCANDER
                  0
                  29 October 2011 06: 07
                  Do you know other words except ub-ok?

                  --- “and it’s clear that all these people are Arabs,”
                  Where do you see?
                  Okay, the Pindos came down from the coils that instead of cameras they saw a weapon, but something happened to you, since you can’t tell a European from an Arab?
                  The group they soaked was white and international (damn, God forbid you put in Apache) ...
                2. slas
                  0
                  13 February 2012 20: 29
                  Quote: ereke
                  I answer you last time. They saw everything, but did not know what kind of people they were, what their names were and where they didn’t hear what they were talking about, and it’s clear that all these people are Arabs, with grenade launchers the same people shoot in civilians, in T-shirts and summer trousers.

                  Well, yes, urine of everyone who is in T-shirts and summer trousers. fool
        2. slas
          +1
          13 February 2012 20: 25
          Well, I overcame everything laughing
  15. 0
    27 October 2011 21: 54
    Can I put in my "five kopecks"? Is our Mi-28 really that good? Let me remind you that the main helicopter for the Air Force, according to the results of the competition (it was back in the 80s!) Was not chosen at all Mi, but Ka-50. Milevites started a secret fuss, because of which the troops got a shish, and not new turntables. But again they lost, in 1995 the Ka-50 was officially adopted. But under EBN, of course, there was no time for turntables. and buried the Ka-50, pushing through their raw product, which was liquid crap during the exercises.
    The Indians already had experience in the purchase of "pre-production" samples of Russian weapons. And they undoubtedly did not want, as in previous times, to receive the whole bunch of problems associated with this, especially for their own money. Last year, one of our Mi-28Н crashed during exercises at the Gorokhovets training ground during practical firing of high-precision missiles. Thanks to the design of the machine - the shock-absorbing chassis and the capsule, in which the pilots are able to withstand overload in the 15 g, the pilots remained alive. But the fact that the engines of the helicopter stalled from the exhaust gases of the rocket was indisputably noticed by the Indians. And to convince them that now this annoying flaw has been eliminated is useless. Even showing footage of all the latest exercises, where the Mi-28 group releases the entire ammunition of guided missiles and remains after that in the air.

    And I'm not sure that our army in the form of Mi-28 gets a really good car.
    PS From "Kamov" pilots could stupidly eject without experiencing the advantages of "shock-absorbing landing gear"
    1. PLO
      -2
      27 October 2011 23: 37
      liquid crap, not sure ..

      homegrown expert

      maybe the Ka-52 is better than the Mi-28, but this does not mean that the Mi-28 is bad.

      at heights where such a chassis on the mi-28 is effective, it’s not a fact that you can successfully eject the ka-52

      By the way
      Mi-28 security

      in the event of an emergency or catastrophic destruction of the structure at a height of more than 100 m, the rotor blades, wing consoles and doors of both cabs are first shot, then the forced pull belts are cut with special cutters, special “ramps” are inflated - balloons that prevent the crew from hitting the landing gear or turned gun, and the crew leaves the car with the help of parachutes.
      In the same situation, but at an altitude of less than 100 m, the system of forced belt tightening is activated, which reliably fixes the crew in the Pamir-K energy-absorbing seats developed by KB Zvezda. First, the main landing gear, which, when deformed, absorb it, is extinguished by the impact energy. Next, the seats come into operation, which are able to pay off the vertical overload of 50-60 g to 15-17 g, ensuring the safety of the pilot and the navigator-operator


      taking into account what you’re talking about year 95, you obviously don’t take into account that there were cases of screw overlap on the early versions of the ka-50, and on the ka-52, because of the coaxial design, it is difficult to install an over-the-barrel radar


      I will summarize: each helicopter has its drawbacks, but not one of them has an overwhelming advantage over the other, and not such a shit like you rushing to KB mile
      1. Insurgent
        -1
        28 October 2011 12: 57
        What kind of screw overlap on ka -27 is also a coaxial diagram of some screw overlap
        1. PLO
          -1
          28 October 2011 17: 43
          well, and the argument)
          where does the ka-27? he has other possibilities and tasks.

          here at least this link
          http://www.airwar.ru/enc/ah/ka50.html


          On June 17, 1998, General Vorobyov performed a flight according to the exercises of the Combat Training Course in conjunction with the program for mastering new aviation technology for R&D "Flight research of methods for performing complex aerobatics figures" and with a "Special program for training flight personnel to perform demonstration flights on Ka-50 helicopters" On the 30th minute of the flight, at an altitude of about 50 m and a speed of less than 60 km / h, in the process of an intensive roll change to 116 and an energetic descent with a large dive angle, the rotor blades collided with the helicopter collided with the ground, and the pilot, unable to use the rescue means , died As the commission investigating the disaster established, the cause of the accident was the piloting of the helicopter outside the limits stipulated by the Flight Operations Manual (flights with roll angles up to 70, pitch angles up to 60 and angular velocities along all axes up to 60 deg / s are allowed) The helicopter dived in a fatal flight almost sheer (over 80). At such pitch angles, it became possible to reconnect the vertical-course system along the roll channel, as a result of which the roll indication on the IKP-81 device abruptly changed by 180, which could disorient the pilot, who reflexively sharply shifted the cyclic step knob.This led to an increase in the descent rate to 30 m / s and an increase in the total angular velocity, which in combination with the low forward speed of the helicopter and the position of the right pedal on the stop led to the collision of the rotor blades.

          It is worth noting that, contrary to the popular belief spread by opponents of coaxial helicopters, history knows only a few cases of "collision" of the rotor blades, and not only on the Ka-50 For example, on October 24, 1969, due to the collision of the blades, the Ka-25 crashed, the crew which, in the right turn with braking at low speed, exceeded the bank angle limits by more than 3 times.On May 14, 1988, the Ka-27 was lost, the clashing of its blades occurred during acceleration to 350 km / h with a left roll of 70 and a dive angle of 60 ( permissible values ​​are respectively 290 km / h, 35 and 15) Both of these cases, like almost all others, are associated with piloting helicopters outside the envisaged limits.

          A year before the disaster of General Vorobyov, another case of collision of the rotor blades on the Ka-50 was recorded on July 31, 1997 during a slide, due to the pilot's loss of spatial orientation, the helicopter reached a pitch angle of 90, followed by overturning on the "back" and an increasing rate of increase angular velocity up to 180 deg / s Fortunately, that time it cost only the destruction of the tips of the blades, and the Ka-50, having completed an unintentional loop, landed safely.Investigations of the problem of the possibility of collision of rotor blades on Ka-50 helicopters showed that, subject to the requirements of the Guidelines for there can be no "clashing" flight operation.


          as a result, there will be no blades on acceptable modes of overlap, but in a battle everything rarely happens according to plan (well, I guess)

          by the way, on the ka-52, the blades are spaced more than on the ka-50, hence the problem of installing an over-the-barrel radar, because the helicopter turns out to be too high
          1. Insurgent
            -1
            28 October 2011 19: 15
            moreover, the tasks are the same, the scheme of the coaxial screws is the same, so it can be said that with the Mi-28 the screw will cut off the left-hand beam under adverse conditions, all machines are tested by manufacturers
            And on the head the brick may fall and that
            1. PLO
              -1
              28 October 2011 22: 37
              you can say anything, but the mi-28 did not have such cases, and the likelihood of such a case is very small
              ps one design, thousands of implementations (e.g. blade length, blade spacing, and many other factors)
    2. KASKAD
      -1
      28 October 2011 01: 56
      So in MI28 you can catapult with the shooting of the blades, you can fly out through the door it shoots back and the trap is inflated for a more pleasant escape.
      1. Jaguar
        -1
        28 October 2011 12: 12
        You are not confused with the Ka-50 (52)? There is no Mi-28 ejection seat
  16. zczczc
    +2
    27 October 2011 22: 03
    http://lenta.ru/articles/2011/10/26/final/
    "The Mi-28NE lost because it could not meet 20 items in the list of tender requirements."

    I would like to read about these 20 parameters.
  17. +4
    27 October 2011 22: 36
    Here, in fact - the hero of the occasion.
    MI-28NE (w / n 38 yellow) participated in demonstration flights in India.
    1. Insurgent
      +1
      28 October 2011 19: 17
      Would you sell it to Pakistan, or make it look like the Indians will interestingly react?
      1. Mesniy
        0
        31 October 2011 18: 16
        sell, you will receive commissions.
  18. kesa1111
    +2
    28 October 2011 02: 15
    Apache already has 3 modifications and has an over-the-neck radar. 28 has good export prospects after refinement. It's not even about outstanding qualities - there are not enough helicopters in the world. Almost any.
  19. 0
    28 October 2011 20: 32
    Maybe I am an expert, olp, but the Ka-50 worked in Chechnya in real combat conditions, and not in refined training conditions (without falling from missile gases) and earned the most flattering reviews. As I happened to read, they are now trying to teach the Mi-28N what the Ka-52 was able to do many years ago. The Mil vehicle was adopted in a form in which it should not have been accepted by any means! And they tried to sell such a "cheese" to the Indians, but the promise "to bring it to mind during operation" did not work, and that was the whole reason for the loss.
    There was also infa that the Air Force decided to significantly increase the order for the Ka-52, apparently prochukhav than they are threatened with equipping the "Raw Hunter".
    The only trouble is that the Air Force of not the richest country will overstrain, using two types of turntables (plus the Mi-24), while the US Air Force is quite capable of real combat operations on one type (plus the Cobra in the ILC). resembles the situation with the T-64/72/80 tanks, which developed in the Union, and the Abrams among the amers.
    That olp. If you turn to personal insults, then ... IT will be seen in the mirror, the most worthy representative of non-traditional orientation ..... IT is so out of your mouth and crawls. Next time, ask your husband a device from ... SHE rinse it before taking it into your mouth.
    1. PLO
      -2
      28 October 2011 22: 40
      well, you have fantasies lol
      are you jerking off there? belay
    2. Mesniy
      +1
      31 October 2011 18: 22
      The biggest trouble with the 50 is that it flies only during the day on "combat". At that time in any case, and then they said that 52 will solve these problems.
  20. 0
    29 October 2011 00: 27
    it seems to me that the Indians "lost" Russia on a dime
  21. +1
    29 October 2011 01: 21
    Let's see how India will receive apache smells ....
  22. +1
    29 October 2011 19: 17
    the Indian market is being tidied up seriously, most likely discounts and a service and a guarantee, and some Chinese clothes will be replaced with Indian ones in their own market.
    what can you do - competition - we need to work better and apache to a deck more thoroughly than what we even refused
  23. Mesniy
    -3
    31 October 2011 18: 19
    Well, they brought here a tramp, what can you talk about?
    Any of you that will choose: an imported car or a shovel govnomobile?
    In military technology, it’s about the same thing, but there is still politics involved.
    1. ESCANDER
      0
      31 October 2011 18: 31
      Mesniy

      They prefer Niva and UAZ for hunting. The army is about the same.
      1. +3
        31 October 2011 18: 51
        I agree, when there is no money for a land rover for hunting, you take a cornfield.
        1. ESCANDER
          -1
          31 October 2011 18: 57
          No, Land Rovers in the garages are resting.
          Niva and UAZ - this is the second, and who has a third in the stable.
          1. +1
            31 October 2011 19: 02
            Well, I don’t know, all my friends who have money to go hunting in jeeps.
            There is no money driven on the fields.
            1. ESCANDER
              0
              31 October 2011 19: 11
              Yes, we have in Siberia, you see, on entom good, they did not accelerate very well.
              1. +1
                31 October 2011 22: 10
                Why, after all, a patriot goes to UAZ to hunt, and he is larger than a land rover in size.
  24. 0
    2 November 2011 13: 03
    only the lazy did not write about the loss of the tender, but specifically: what are the 20 points on which Mi28 lost to Apache? Tea, not military secret, the Indians should have told our representatives about this Old. And then it would be possible to discuss how much ... and so, everything is at the level of emotions and screeching!
  25. 0
    3 November 2011 12: 50
    I really hope that we will win the next tenders for the supply of military equipment to India!
  26. +2
    28 January 2012 23: 43
    Nothing terrible happened ... they lost here, won in another place ... well, who said that contracts are won only by the best combat characteristics of the machines .... whoever believes in this is at least naive .....
    It strikes another. Podpindosniki only wait for Russia to misfire somewhere there ... take the very first toast ........ spit with saliva, yeah, here you are Russian suckers, etc. patriots ...
    You see, you see that a normal person worries about his country, even if he sometimes overdoes it ... it just burned out over the years of the country's "democratization" ..... Don't fall for their provocations, they are like energy vampires - they feed on our emotions .. ...

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