Military Review

About hand-to-hand combat

126
If a person goes into battle unprepared, it will be dishonorable in relation to the federation, in relation to the brothers by arms, but worst of all - in relation to him.
Robert Heinlein. Star infantry

A samurai without a sword is like a samurai with a sword, only without a sword.
Bushido


I want to express my opinion on the army hand-to-hand combat. Yes, yes, the very one who is an army and little different from him Dynamo. Immediately I warn you that this is not about wonderful techniques and unique techniques. No one denies the obligation of this discipline in power structures. And no one doubts the fighting qualities of individual prominent Companions.

About hand-to-hand combat


So, it is no secret to anyone that modern hand-to-hand combat was developed in the 70 of the last century by a group of enthusiasts based on sports sambo, boxing, as well as karate and a small admixture of combat sports. These creators took the most effective (in their opinion) techniques and, based on their ideas about “real” combat, created a system for training security forces fighters from scratch from scratch. While ignoring the rich domestic (and foreign too) experience. And they got some kind of semi-discipline discipline with certain utility claims.

What's the catch? And here is what: in stories The development of martial arts hand-to-hand combat (combat without weapons) is closely linked, and to be perfectly accurate, is a special case of the usual battle with weapons. Complexes of formal exercises (kata) of oriental martial arts (namely, martial arts, and not martial arts) are performed with or without weapons. Movement and technology are performed almost the same with or without weapons. You also need to add that it is implied that you are one and you have several opponents, and they are armed.

What do we see in the martial arts of the East? Permanent movements that impede opponents attack and joint actions. The absence of a long series of strikes against one opponent. Instead, the principle of "one action - one enemy." If the master spends on the opponent more than one movement, he fusses. Accordingly, if in the formal complex we see a series, then, as a rule, this is a series against several opponents. And even more so there are no clinches and a long struggle in the girth (or even on the ground) - this threatens to lose control over other opponents. Who are completely out of place may be a weapon. Getting a knife in the back with a knife (or a manhole cover on the head) while embracing one of the interlocutors is not the best end to a fighter’s career. Lying on the ground, when several opponents attack you, is generally like death.

As for the actual training, in the current situation we have several systems of combat skills - proper hand-to-hand combat, work with melee weapons, actions with firearms. As a result, there is an accumulation of skills that very often contradict each other.

Suppose there is a fighter who has a training in hand-to-hand combat, which is common in our time, with one opponent, with clinches and even wrestling. In practice, this translates into concentration on one opponent and a long “shuttle” trampling in one place in order to properly abuse the adversary. And this same fighter has a rifle training, where you have to control a lot of opponents, constantly move and not sit (stand) in one place. Accordingly, some skills will contradict others. For example, if during a sudden collision you have to first use hand-to-hand combat skills, then take part in a shootout, and after the shooting ends, end the fight again with your hands - most likely, our fighter will have problems.

There are still no less interesting moments. Modern army means that the fighter will be dressed in some special equipment. I have little idea of ​​two soldiers in helmets, body armor and full “unloading”, boxing, moving with a shuttle and putting on tobi ara mawashi geri (who is interested, he will find a translation) or trying, “gently” embracing, to throw over his shoulder. No matter how strange it may sound, but modern equipment returns us to the times of medieval armor. Technology has changed, but the essence remains. A blow with a bare fist on the jaw and a punch in a kevlar glove on an armored sphere on an opponent's head are not exactly the same thing. Yes, and poke a knife in a bulletproof vest is not always advisable.

But at the same time, hand-to-hand combat is still designed for airborne demobilization at a school disco or in a bar. And somehow it is forgotten that hand-to-hand combat is still one of the means that allows the fighter to survive on the battlefield. And this tool should also be developed and modernized, like everyone else. That is, instead of the natural and necessary part of combat training, we have a certain alien element, which is useless in its current form in combat.

It is clear that the infantry is not likely to get into a situation where you can apply hand-to-hand combat skills. But anything happens in a war, and if suddenly a fighter encounters an opponent face-to-face during a battle in a city tomorrow, and he will not have the opportunity to shoot - for example, he did not have time to recharge, or sticking, or ... It would be better for a fighter, and for his comrades, if he will be able to grieve the enemy even in such conditions.

In the meantime, I see attempts to train combatants in combat skills, dressing them in boxing gloves on soft mats and in sweatpants. And it would be funny if it were not sad. In the end, it is dishonorable with respect to the fighter himself.

I repeat. We are not talking about the fact that martial arts are good, and hand-to-hand combat is bad. Not at all. The idea is that hand-to-hand combat in the army has become a highly specialized semi-sports system, not related to the main activity. As a drill. In the East, martial arts taught primarily tactics and strategies of combat, discipline and the ability to think in different situations. Therefore, as a rule, they developed among the military elite. It is like chess, only with the help of arms and legs. We have these chess for some reason used in boxing gloves for beating on the head. Although this is only a part of their functions, and not the most important one.
Author:
126 comments
Ad

Subscribe to our Telegram channel, regularly additional information about the special operation in Ukraine, a large amount of information, videos, something that does not fall on the site: https://t.me/topwar_official

Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. blizart
    blizart 31 July 2015 06: 13
    +36
    An intellectual with glasses shyly asks the instructor of the thug: "What kind of sports would you advise me for self-defense?"
    He chewing: "You for business, or for show-off?"
    -Of course for business!
    -Run!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. APES
      APES 31 July 2015 09: 49
      +17
      to the Great Patriotic War - the Germans, when they ran out of cartridges, as a rule, departed.
      Russians went into hand-to-hand combat and, as a rule, won, because the old Russian game "wall to wall" was in the genes, this is when the village mutuzel each other from the heart of the village.

      there is a good book - "War Machine" by AE Taras, there is a good epigraph:
      "The worst animal on earth is a cornered rat!" - who wants to check, go down to the basement, find a rat and drive it into a corner with a stick - at one time I tried, repeating the desire was gone forever, from the rat driven by me I backed away.

      Intelligent glasses shy
      I saw one intellectual (170 height, 55 kg weight, I never went in for sports) - broke off a branch from a living tree !, when at night two obscure comrades asked him for a light, comrades were in the hospital, and the intellectual could not explain anything ..., so :)))
      1. Vend
        Vend 31 July 2015 10: 19
        +1
        You can see it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8N9EjNLLS4s
      2. activator
        activator 31 July 2015 10: 27
        +15
        At a friend, my grandfather served in some unit, either SMERSH or a saboteur, in general a long time ago, he told me honestly, I don’t remember. damage with one blow and use everything that turns out to be handy. One drawback was that he couldn’t use it in his village in the event of a fight because he couldn’t knock out one blow to the head and he couldn’t, but would simply mutilate people I would do Adam's apple, hands, Avy. Yes, and it was impossible to use the prison immediately.
        1. smershxnumx
          smershxnumx 31 July 2015 13: 56
          +6
          Our hand-to-hand instructor conducted classes on the parade ground ("... no one will lay mats for you in battle, and learn not to fall ...). And then - broken fingers, dislocations and bruises of joints," stuck "muscles - and no there were no parterres ("... fell down - count it, died ...") Somehow ...
          1. papik09
            papik09 2 August 2015 06: 39
            +2
            100500% true. Broken fingers - this is garbage, but when there were broken hands and embossed Adam's apple - it was already a lot of safsem not for malicious smiles and smirks hi
        2. smershxnumx
          smershxnumx 31 July 2015 13: 56
          +4
          Our hand-to-hand instructor conducted classes on the parade ground ("... no one will lay mats for you in battle, and learn not to fall ...). And then - broken fingers, dislocations and bruises of joints," stuck "muscles - and no there were no parterres ("... fell down - count it, died ...") Somehow ...
      3. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 31 July 2015 12: 06
        0
        I will add another opinion. If a soldier is a javelin and the enemy is pitching, no matter what melee equipment he possesses, the enemy will strangle you with stupid brute force, simply with two hands. Therefore, no matter who says the weapon of salvation before the pitching, and the technique of owning it, for example, a samurai sword, or, in short, a ninja, cartridges will run out, the sword will not end. IMHO.

        PySy. It is not for nothing that in any sport there is a weight category. Watch the movie "Troy". If they fought there with bare hands, then Ajax would strangle Hector, and the jock at the beginning of the film is Achilles. Weapons make people equal in strength.
        1. CTEPX
          CTEPX 31 July 2015 13: 03
          +9
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          Not for nothing that in any sport there is a weight category.

          There are no weight categories in assault competitions. In our hand-to-hand competitions, there are weighted ones among the military-industrial complex (though no one knows how to determine them before the start of the competition), but there are no age and gender differences. True, both that and another - not a sport, but a pure applied, and the preliminary delivery of standards is mandatory)).
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          no matter what melee equipment he possesses, the enemy stupidly brutally strangles you, simply with two hands.

          If "drisch" owns a plucked technique and knows how to move, then I don't envy pitching)).
          1. Tiheros
            Tiheros 1 August 2015 00: 11
            +5
            They are competitions and competitions, that there are rules, and the rules are always restrictions. In some ways (platform, ring, tatami, uniform, weight categories, etc.). In real combat there is none of this and the pitching or master then there, and the one who is more determined and ready to go to the end, and the one who makes better and faster decisions In extreme conditions. One thing is competition where you won’t be killed and another thing is to fight to the death. Therefore, it’s not in vain In the same Sparta or B Japan paid great attention to the psychological training of a fighter and then the combat technique
        2. Sling cutter
          Sling cutter 31 July 2015 13: 07
          +4
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          I will add another opinion. If a soldier is a javelin and the enemy is pitching, no matter what melee equipment he possesses, the enemy will strangle you with stupid brute force,

          1. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 31 July 2015 15: 42
            +2
            Lavrov especially has good night workouts! wink In general, an interesting man, and his tricks work.
            1. smershxnumx
              smershxnumx 31 July 2015 19: 43
              +1
              Our hand-to-hand instructor (Alexander Veniaminovich, I don’t remember his surname) also practiced this, taught us a few things, but ... "It's too early for you to know ...". Something like this...
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. The comment was deleted.
        5. APES
          APES 31 July 2015 13: 20
          +5
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          with bare hands


          real story:

          a girl of 17 years, height 1 65, weight 45 kg - she loved to jump from a parachute, was carried away, became seriously engaged

          it was a prelude, and the story is the following: one day, when jumping, got entangled in slings, the parachute hangs like a snot, she forgot about everything in shock, in particular about the sling cutter, as a result she broke the slings with her bare hands and opened the reserve. The scars from the slings on his hands remained for life.

          a man in a trance is capable of a lot, and no one knows all his capabilities to the end ..........
          1. Hleb
            Hleb 31 July 2015 13: 40
            +8
            as a result, with her bare hands she tore the slings and opened the reserve
            yeah, the trance of this little inch was specific))
            (and this, my friend, the rumor cuts: parachute jump)
            1. APES
              APES 31 July 2015 14: 27
              +1
              Quote: Gleb
              rumor cuts

              it happens :) sorry hi
              sometimes you don’t make a reservation
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Throw
              Throw 31 July 2015 14: 41
              +8
              On the topic of all non-contact styles, GRU, etc. The master of non-contact combat is a SCARY person! )))
              But the guy in his underpants forgot to say this laughing
            4. Old_kapitan
              Old_kapitan 31 July 2015 15: 18
              0
              In a trance, a person, on the contrary, "slows down". You picked the wrong word.
              1. Ingvar 72
                Ingvar 72 31 July 2015 15: 45
                +2
                Quote: Old_Kapitan
                In a trance, a person, on the contrary, "slows down". You picked the wrong word.

                Once at a time. Sometimes you make cotton, and sometimes like in slow motion.
                1. Old_kapitan
                  Old_kapitan 31 July 2015 17: 40
                  0
                  Then it is not a trance. In psychology, there is a clear (relatively, but in any case without the desire for active action) definition of this state.
          2. Old_kapitan
            Old_kapitan 31 July 2015 15: 13
            +1
            Very much believe. My instructor told me: the guy, with a knapsack, touched the edge of the door with his knapsack and bent the pin. Of course, he could not pull out the ring. I do not remember why, but the reserve did not work either. So he barehanded !, behind his back !, ripped the knapsack and still put the main one into action. That's how it happens!
        6. smershxnumx
          smershxnumx 31 July 2015 19: 29
          +3
          And here, dear Max_Bauder, hand-to-hand combat begins! The weight category (this is not a sport), nor uniforms (no protective devices for the body, arms, legs, helmets, gloves / pads, "shells", etc.), nor shoes ("kerzachi", sneakers, moccasins ), no headgear (helmet, hat, panama) ... By means of improvised means we simply incapacitate the enemy: a ballpoint pen, a rolled-up newspaper, a trouser belt, an umbrella, a folder for documents, and the same cell phone, etc. etc.!!! Something like this, colleague ..
          1. papik09
            papik09 2 August 2015 07: 19
            +1
            hi
            ... or a finger in the eye ... wassat
            drinks
        7. nnz226
          nnz226 31 July 2015 23: 47
          +4
          When ours flew into a counterattack from the trenches against the Germans (at least an episode from the movie "They Fought for the Motherland"), they were hardly distributed by weight categories, choosing an adversary to match themselves ... But learning to kill the enemy not only with a bullet or bayonet, but and "auxiliary items" should be introduced in combat units, albeit not at the level of special forces, but still ... During the war, the fighters had a sharply sharpened small sapper blade (MSL) in great demand just for such melee. By the way, a new fighter in armor and unloading with a shovel in his hands will be relevant in case of a close collision (as the author of the article mentioned that today's soldiers are similar to knights in armor, then the MSL will be in place of the sword)
        8. papik09
          papik09 2 August 2015 06: 41
          +2
          And if "drysh" (as you broadcast) is simple, Stupid angry knock out a rolling eye? And then what? wassat
      4. Rus86
        Rus86 31 July 2015 15: 03
        0
        the book is impressive +
      5. Astrey
        Astrey 31 July 2015 22: 37
        +3
        Quote: APES
        to the Great Patriotic War - the Germans, when they ran out of cartridges, as a rule, departed


        Some time has passed since then. Sufficient for the analysis of accumulated experience and structuring of the material in the training manual.

        Undoubtedly, RB is necessary as a means of tempering the spirit. He gives confidence and willingness to fight until victory or to the very end. Which is often much more important than the ability to shoot accurately.

        BUT! BI must be developed like any element of competitiveness - otherwise the outdated element (weak link) will "drown" the entire system. And the population of this system will become "food" for the winner.
        The experience of the Second World War is mostly negative - romantic sambo was taught at the level of "putting the opponent's hand behind the back" - a useful skill in civilian life - but why should ALL soldiers catch enemies in this hall and where to lead the caught enemy from the battlefield then is an unanswered question. The British were rescued by trench boxing - google for anyone interested.

        It is strange to read that in a country like Russia, the ARB is still at the level of uh ... not satisfying modern conditions. Miracle heroes boxing in gloves - a shoemaker without boots. Where are you looking? If not Rogozin with Shoigu, then public and veteran organizations.

        Develop a system of MODERN RB and present it to whom it should be, but they don’t understand, well, she died so died, teach the specialist practitioners that they will not disdain to use it at competitions and thereby popularize it.

        For example, in this way (as a first approximation) in the long-suffering Ukraine, the Ukrainian tactics application system went.
        Who cares - he will google and index two orders of magnitude better than someone who is curious.
    3. Max_Bauder
      Max_Bauder 31 July 2015 11: 59
      +5
      So I agree with the opinion of Sergei Nikloaevich, look and listen.

    4. oldkap22
      oldkap22 31 July 2015 21: 52
      0
      therefore, in the SA of the USSR, the main sport is CROSS ...
  2. Hleb
    Hleb 31 July 2015 06: 13
    +2
    Well, I don’t know, I don’t know ... I think Irbis is getting thick.
    Accordingly, some skills will contradict others.
  3. Sars
    Sars 31 July 2015 06: 33
    +2
    Not all opponents have the same armor. You can also "fight" the Taliban.
    It is possible to drop Americans with equipment weight from 30 kg as penguins.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 31 July 2015 06: 49
      +5
      Americans with equipment weighing from 30 kg, perhaps as penguins - the main thing is to drop
      oh well) from 30 and above will be on the march. during operations and 30 will not be
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Sars
        Sars 31 July 2015 06: 56
        +2
        Photo is outdated. Not without vests, Americans do not fight.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 31 July 2015 06: 57
          +1
          bronik? and with it will not be more than 30
    2. blizart
      blizart 31 July 2015 06: 49
      +11
      Quote: SarS
      Not all opponents have the same armor. You can also "fight" the Taliban.
      It is possible to drop Americans with equipment weight from 30 kg as penguins.

      In various stages of exhaustion? On a rocky slope? On soggy clay? Our instructor - prize-winner of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan in boxing says: "What is the best hand-to-hand combat technique? Kalashnikov assault rifle!"
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 31 July 2015 09: 39
        +5
        With an attached bayonet.
  4. The comment was deleted.
  5. morph
    morph 31 July 2015 06: 53
    +24
    hand-to-hand combat is, first of all, psychological and mental preparation, it means going to the end, looking at danger in the "face", not being afraid to hurt another person, the ability to endure pain, etc.
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 31 July 2015 06: 55
      +2
      and this too, I agree
    2. Victorio
      Victorio 31 July 2015 11: 52
      +1
      Quote: Morf
      hand-to-hand combat is, first of all, psychological and mental preparation, it means going to the end, looking at danger in the "face", not being afraid to hurt another person, the ability to endure pain, etc.

      ====
      that's right, add more tricks for handling improvised items
  6. D-Master
    D-Master 31 July 2015 06: 54
    +21
    That is, instead of the natural and necessary part of combat training, we have a certain alien element, which in its present form is useless in battle. I would like to ask the author what degrees of skill and martial arts he owns? The article is absolutely crazy. A fighter trained as a hand-to-hand martial fighter. Which can beat with hands and feet, can fight both in the rack and in the stalls. It also effectively smothers and breaks. Accordingly, he has developed general physical fitness and a module of acrobatics, which helps to move around the area with rifts, etc. But this does not mean that a trained fighter will drop the machine gun and go to strangle enemies. This is a physically prepared unit, which, during a clash, can fight with or without weapons. But stomping and clinching is a manifestation of a competitive form when like meets with like. Author. I write as a trainer who trained the champions of Russia, Europe and the world medalists in Universal Fight, I understand what I am writing about. You are not!
    1. Hleb
      Hleb 31 July 2015 07: 16
      +9
      I think the author wanted to say something like the following, but a little thickened)
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Inok10
        Inok10 31 July 2015 12: 37
        +8
        Quote: Gleb
        I think the author wanted to say something like the following, but a little thickened)

        .. hi .. and add from myself .. hi
        1. Hleb
          Hleb 31 July 2015 13: 07
          +1
          fine! it’s clear that the show sparring, but it works great. The video contains Mikhail Grudev, the head of the Federation of Russian hand-to-hand fighting Izvor.
          http://izvor.ru/
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 31 July 2015 13: 35
            +4
            .. hi .. flops so come that the partner "floats" four times .. hi .. it’s a pity that our Kaliningraders do not have a dynamic video .. Gennadievich does not want to do window dressing ..
            1. Throw
              Throw 31 July 2015 19: 34
              +6
              ... plops come so that the partner "floats" four times ..

              .. may indicate that the instructor has poor control over the kick. Why show half-dead "uke"?)

              The result - in a melee you need:

              1. work with weapons and

              2. necessary minimum of accumulated equipment.

              We look :)



              laughing
            2. saygon66
              saygon66 3 August 2015 14: 08
              0
              - Not really ... Dial "Plastun Kaliningrad" ...
    2. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 07: 24
      +6
      Quote: D-Master
      I would like to ask the author what degrees of skill and martial arts he owns? The article is absolutely crazy

      Quote: D-Master
      Author. I write as a trainer who trained the champions of Russia, Europe and the world medalists in Universal Fight, I understand what I am writing about. You are not!


      I will make a screen for the story. You are the first to suspect Kazakov of incompetence.
      Or are you a poker player?

      Quote: D-Master
      A fighter trained as a hand-to-hand martial fighter. Which can beat with hands and feet, can fight both in the rack and in the stalls. It also effectively smothers and breaks. Accordingly, he has developed general physical fitness and a module of acrobatics, which helps to move around the area with rifts, etc. But this does not mean that a trained fighter will drop the machine gun and go to strangle enemies. This is a physically prepared unit, which, during a clash, can fight with or without weapons. But stomping and clinching is a manifestation of a competitive form when like meets with like.


      Have you read the article?
      Maybe people at competitions run in full gear?
      How do you imagine an "acrobatics module" or rolls in armor and gear?
      Have you ever seen what an infantryman looks like? The tip is not at all like in the photo at the top of the article. It shows "ballet", if you are, of course, aware of what it is and how it is prepared in the army.
    3. Irbis
      31 July 2015 07: 53
      +13
      If you think that I write my articles on the rich experience of viewing Hollywood action films, then you are cruelly mistaken. This article is based on the opinion of people who are not only coaches for the Republic of Belarus, karate, sambo, but also having more than one war behind them. I just voiced their (well, my) opinion. Well, what to do that those who are well at war, can not always write well.

      Ps
      Before posting, I first gave them a read :-)
      1. APES
        APES 31 July 2015 10: 04
        +1
        Quote: Irbis
        If you think


        question:
        a young man of 18 years, the CCM in hand-to-hand combat, the CCM in water polo, + is smart and quick-witted to this.

        during the call to which troops will they take him ???? :)
        and how long will this young man wait for a decision ???
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. lukke
          lukke 31 July 2015 11: 02
          +9
          a young man of 18 years, the CCM in hand-to-hand combat, the CCM in water polo, + is smart and quick-witted to this.

          during the call to which troops will they take him ???? :)
          and how long will this young man wait for a decision ???
          How the card will fall) i.e. only God knows (poor eyesight, etc. can cross out everything), but if he wants to get into the so-called the elite of the Armed Forces under category 1 according to the medical board - he will need to be persistent in communicating with the military commissar (at least try). And yet - the CCM is relevant for the year of its confirmation, then I'm sorry, you have either progress and a permanent title of Master of Sports, or regression - 1 adult)
          And also from my own practice I will say that various law enforcement agencies (divisions) have their own "favorite" sports, and if you are three times hand-to-hand ninja-Nintendo, but instead of you they will take a volleyball player)
          But the main sport in the Army is still running and army triathlon (running, shooting and swimming)
          1. APES
            APES 31 July 2015 11: 58
            +2
            Quote: lukke
            poor eyesight etc. can cross out everything

            all ok
            Quote: lukke
            if he wants to get

            he didn’t want to get anywhere, but in the end he got wink - to the bay of Halalay Russian island bully

            Quote: lukke
            And the most important sport


            with my message I wanted to convey a simple thought - sport is good.
            and a young man playing sports is much better than any ideological addict.
            1. lukke
              lukke 31 July 2015 12: 03
              +1
              with my message I wanted to convey a simple thought - sport is good.
              and a young man playing sports is much better than any ideological addict.
              it is better to engage in physical education), professional sport makes people crippled and very fast, And I agree - we do not need addicts)
            2. The comment was deleted.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. vit8180
            vit8180 31 July 2015 14: 20
            +6
            88 year, CCM on sambo, TRP standards - excellent .... Before the call, he received rights in DOSAAF. And where did I go? .......................
            "Royal troops"! Stroybat in the far north. One thing consoles - ".... they are such animals that they don't even give out a weapon ....."
            1. dvg79
              dvg79 1 August 2015 08: 44
              +3
              Another proof of the inadequacy of personnel policy in the army.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. Nehist
      Nehist 31 July 2015 08: 11
      +1
      Dear, a real hand-to-hand encounter is very, very different from what you as a coach and your champions do.
      1. APES
        APES 31 July 2015 09: 55
        +2
        Quote: Nehist
        your champions are doing.


        a real champion is more likely to survive and win in

        Quote: Nehist
        real hand-to-hand encounter
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 31 July 2015 12: 43
          +2
          So you are a terrible battle swimmer ?! Well, I’m a modest technician, I don’t know how they taught you personal experience from me, albeit not entirely successful, but as you can see, I’m still alive and I have a degree in chess.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    5. CTEPX
      CTEPX 31 July 2015 13: 22
      +3
      Quote: D-Master
      as a trainer who trained the champions of Russia, Europe and the world medalists in Universal Combat, I understand what I am writing about. You are not!

      I do not think that you know so much about the author to confidently determine your personal superiority)). And the author writes just about unsportsmanlike training. A champion can be a good soldier. And it may not be)).
  7. almamatkulov. 79
    almamatkulov. 79 31 July 2015 07: 01
    +5
    Alas, in our army in some parts there is no longer either force or combat training. My student served in the Baltic, so he and the boys bought a simulator for their grandmothers so that they would not completely gobble up control of the border area from monitors.
  8. SibSlavRus
    SibSlavRus 31 July 2015 07: 02
    +4
    If you managed somewhere to lose a machine gun, bayonet-knife and sapper blade, then, yes - the only thing left for you is hand-to-hand combat. angry
    Do what you can, and complete the combat mission!

    The battlefield is not a sports ring with rules, not a street fight with show-offs: you need to kill right away, even with your hands.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 07: 41
      0
      Quote: SibSlavRus
      If you managed somewhere to lose a machine gun, bayonet-knife and sapper blade, then, yes - the only thing left for you is hand-to-hand combat.


      A strike with a bayonet and a butt - what is this? Fire training?
      Then the MPL strike is an engineering preparation, at least ...
      A bayonet-knife is generally cooking.

      By the way, the article stipulates:
      if suddenly tomorrow a fighter during a battle in the city collides with the enemy face to face, and he will not be able to shoot - for example, he does not have time to recharge, or poking, or ... It will be better for the fighter and his comrades, if he be able to upset the enemy, even in such conditions.
      1. Throw
        Throw 31 July 2015 16: 33
        +2
        Exactly, the battle on the MSL is an engineering training engineer! And throwing - remote clearance! )))
  9. Fox
    Fox 31 July 2015 07: 17
    +1
    Irbis is right ... the lack of skills is with improvised tools and equipment.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 07: 26
      -1
      Quote: Fox
      Irbis is right ... the lack of skills is with improvised tools and equipment.


      Well, you know where he is now ...
      And where did he get the material for the article ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
  10. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 31 July 2015 07: 29
    +18
    In today's conditions, the Republic of Belarus in the army is primarily an educational burden. The ability to concentrate, overcome pain, the development of strong-willed qualities, and so on. Significantly more important than for the army and even special forces of the Republic of Belarus is for the police, which, conceived by virtue of their official duties, come into conflict with their bare hands.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 08: 40
      -1
      Quote: Aron Zaavi
      In today's conditions, the Republic of Belarus in the army is primarily an educational burden. The ability to concentrate, overcome pain, the development of strong-willed qualities, and so on.


      Quick chess is fully consistent with such requirements if the player’s Kuznetsov’s applicator is on the player’s chair. You can still not let the toilet go before the party.
  11. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 31 July 2015 08: 25
    +7
    Termination of training in fencing in military universities is a very big mistake. It is understandable, it was difficult to provide "expensive noble sport" in the USSR. However, any competent athlete will confirm that fencing develops endurance, agility, psyche, reaction and thinking. Even sometimes fencing is called "sports chess". But possession of a sporting weapon will allow you to confidently handle both a knife and a sapper shovel and just a machine gun, finally.

    It is now impossible to drive a herd of servicemen into the fencing hall, obligation will always give rise to profanity. But if you simply introduce a sword, a saber, a broadsword into the uniform of officers, then a simple human desire to master it will arise. Sections will begin to be visited, there will be a demand for coaches, halls, ammunition, gunsmiths. In the end, the health and skills of the officers will increase significantly, and the country's economy will somehow, at least slightly, advance towards improvement.

    Although maybe I'm wrong and it’s better to leave it as it is? Calm down.
    1. Alexey M
      Alexey M 31 July 2015 13: 32
      +2
      Again, offer all the swords to distribute? laughing
  12. Turbo rabbit
    Turbo rabbit 31 July 2015 08: 28
    +11
    To enter hand-to-hand combat, a fighter must:
    1) Pass on the battlefield machine gun, gun, knife, waist belt, shoulder blade, body armor, hard hat.
    2) Find a flat platform on which no stones or sticks lie.
    3) Find the same races on it.
    And only after that, to join with him in melee.

    In general, a melee gives a chance to escape from captivity.
    Z. S. I’ve been doing melee for 15 years.
    1. Irbis
      31 July 2015 08: 59
      +10
      To enter hand-to-hand combat, a fighter must:
      1) Pass on the battlefield machine gun, gun, knife, waist belt, shoulder blade, body armor, hard hat.
      2) Find a flat platform on which no stones or sticks lie.
      3) Find the same races on it.
      And only after that, to join with him in melee.

      How much can you repeat this stupid joke? I have such a suspicion that the majority of commentators reviewed the militants. Just a few questions about this joke:
      1. Do you have that ammo does not end? Or as in the movie 9 a charging colt in which throughout the whole movie they never changed the clip?
      2. Using a knife, a shoulder blade, a belt, and a helmet is not a close fight?
      3. At the moment of close combat, you will always have the opportunity to have time to shoot, recharge, change the store?
      4. You are a cowboy and at 100% you are sure that you will have time to shoot at a man who has managed to reach you at a distance of a strike with a sapper shovel.
      5. Are you sure that from the same pistol you will cover a person in a bulletproof vest from the first shot?

      All these supposedly funny jokes, only the result of the fact that between the hand-to-hand combat is taught the same way as in any sports section. Too much convention.

      A small example:
      In Japan, there are systems that teach how to use the sword. There are two of them - Kendo and Ken-jutsu. And the first came from the second. Do you know how they differ? The fact that ken-jutsu no blocks and other protective actions. There is only the attack and contra with the departure from the line of attack of the enemy. Do you know why? Yes, because in the group battle you will not have time to exchange courtesies with the enemy. You are being hacked from all sides and the only way to survive is not to be where they are beaten and to cut everyone on the right and left.

      And this traditional Asian approach to hand-to-hand combat is exactly the same. There hand-to-hand combat is built from work with weapons and the appropriate tactics. Only the distance changes.
      1. Turbo rabbit
        Turbo rabbit 31 July 2015 09: 17
        +5
        You did not see the signature. If I believed that joke, I probably would have stopped doing it.
        1. Irbis
          31 July 2015 09: 18
          0
          I apologize :-) And then this joke everyone sucks repost
      2. washi
        washi 31 July 2015 12: 47
        +2
        Quote: Irbis


        A small example:
        In Japan, there are systems that teach how to use the sword. There are two of them - Kendo and Ken-jutsu. And the first came from the second. Do you know how they differ? The fact that ken-jutsu no blocks and other protective actions. There is only the attack and contra with the departure from the line of attack of the enemy. Do you know why? Yes, because in the group battle you will not have time to exchange courtesies with the enemy. You are being hacked from all sides and the only way to survive is not to be where they are beaten and to cut everyone on the right and left.

        And this traditional Asian approach to hand-to-hand combat is exactly the same. There hand-to-hand combat is built from work with weapons and the appropriate tactics. Only the distance changes.

        And I thought that the problems with the Japanese possession of the sword lie precisely in bad weapons, which are fragile and can not withstand a direct parry strike. Since this was done in European, Asian or Russian schools.
        I call Russian the mixture from Europe and Asia that had to be gained in battles
        1. Irbis
          31 July 2015 13: 02
          +1
          The Japanese have no problems with owning a sword, nor with the swords themselves. He does an excellent job with what he is intended for. If he broke down at you, then it is like with any weapon - you need to take care of it and be able to use it.
          1. Throw
            Throw 31 July 2015 18: 38
            0
            Alexey M
            Again, offer all the swords to distribute?

            Swords, not swords, but a katana in skilled hands ... wink
      3. would
        would 6 August 2015 08: 35
        0
        1. End. The problem is that they do not end all at once.
        2. Conditionally not. Hand-to-hand combat is a fight with bare hands, but the fact that with weapons is a separate discipline. Yes, they were combined into one type of training.
        3. I do not, the rest will have it. Including me. Therefore, the lack of time for such actions in real combat means death.
        4. I am sure that in the framework of this battle, any kamikaze who just dares to stand up and run to the enemy will be riddled with bullets for a good tens of meters. And most likely not just bullets.
        5. But I’m sure that a man in body armor will have a firearm in battle and he will stuff me with bullets before I can just run to him.

        At the same time, you somehow forgot that modern firefights, with rare exceptions, do not imply not only close contact, but even line of sight. And they often consist in the fact that from one "green" they shoot at another "green" from where they shoot at them. To speak in such conditions about at least some kind of close collision is simply ridiculous, but about trying to get close to the enemy to a distance of hand-to-hand combat, so generally sign in ignorance of the topic and amateurism of militants where shootings take place at close range, without hitting each other, and when no one is trying to stop the idiot who runs at them. Real life is not an action movie and everything is completely different here.

        Actually, the example of Japan perfectly speaks of the fact that you have revised the militants because you do not distinguish between a modern battle with firearms and battles from the Middle Ages when you really chopped with swords because you didn’t come up with anything better.
    2. lukke
      lukke 31 July 2015 12: 30
      +1
      To enter hand-to-hand combat, a fighter must:
      1) Pass on the battlefield machine gun, gun, knife, waist belt, shoulder blade, body armor, hard hat.
      It’s easier for the commander to pass such a fighter before the battles)
      Would replace all wrestlers, boxers, etc. to cool gunners or mechanics)))
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 31 July 2015 16: 01
        +8
        Quote: lukke
        to cool gunners or mechanics)))

        And I would have sent them to the march throw along the intersection, 70 km! good wassat Do not rush to extremes: to the god of God - Caesar Cesarean.
        P.S. A pair of well-trained nerd operators are capable of destroying an enemy division with a mouse and a monitor, and a pair of well-trained guys are able to cut a couple of dozen nerd operators. Each has its own tasks. hi
    3. The comment was deleted.
  13. brom
    brom 31 July 2015 09: 00
    -1
    The author clearly has nothing to do with this. Usual thoughts from the couch: I read something somewhere, I watched Chinese films, but someone was telling something.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 09: 20
      +3
      Quote: brom
      The author clearly has nothing to do with this. Usual thoughts from the couch: I read something somewhere, I watched Chinese films, but someone was telling something.


      Tell me, dear, and if it turns out that the Author has something to do with this, do you acknowledge that your judgment was born without any participation of your (beyond any doubt outstanding) intellectual abilities?
  14. Major_Vortex
    Major_Vortex 31 July 2015 09: 17
    +5
    Against a trained fighter armed with modern weapons, even the absolute world champion in any martial art is powerless. Every fighter needs to know this as 2x2. I’m personally ready to demonstrate this by going against any champion, for example, with Kalash laughing

    But if you still want to wave your fists against an unarmed opponent, the first thing to develop is speed, the second is strength, and the technique (all kinds of tricks, blocks and strikes) is only in the last or third place. In hand-to-hand combat, it is useful in this order: you cannot catch up with the fast, but against the strong, technical, but weak, nothing will be done.

    Regarding the fact that hand-to-hand combat methods must be practiced not with bare hands, but with weapons - I agree to 100. I don’t fight with my bare hands.
    1. erg
      erg 31 July 2015 17: 04
      +1
      Last week I spent at the center for the training of instructors for the professional training of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the city of Moscow. I am a freelance fire training instructor in my unit. We spent a lot of time practicing disarmament techniques against
      1. Major_Vortex
        Major_Vortex 31 July 2015 18: 18
        0
        Quote: erg
        Last week I spent at the center for the training of instructors for the professional training of the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the city of Moscow. I am a freelance fire training instructor in my unit. We spent a lot of time practicing disarmament techniques against


        Without good physical preparation, melee turns out to be none. Therefore, the first thing a fighter needs to develop is speed, the second is strength, and the third is the development of technology. The number of practiced tricks should also be minimal - 1-2, worse than 2-4 tricks, and it’s better not to waste time working out many tricks - this will be a useless lesson. This is for the Ministry of Internal Affairs, where the methods of detention and disarmament, rather than killing the offender before the trial, are really important. But the employee of the Ministry of Internal Affairs also does not rely on bare fists. There must be special equipment at hand. A policeman driving offenders with his bare hands, if he is not a superman, is more like a moron.

        For a soldier, a melee is an extreme measure, because the enemy will not refuse weapons voluntarily, you can wave your fists and put blocks against firearms only in the movies. Even on the street, any scuffle ends when someone takes out a weapon and sends it at the enemy. Who does not understand this is the corpse.

        Take an interest in the history of boxing uprisings in China and how they all ended. A well-known story demonstrates how the confrontation between the martial arts masters of the regular army really ends. After the boxing uprisings, there are very few martial artists in China, only a few.
        1. erg
          erg 1 August 2015 15: 46
          0
          I apologize, but my commentary was not completely highlighted. Why is it only the first lines. It was about disarming an armed enemy when he threatens you with a loaded pistol. From what we were shown and what we practiced, it is really possible to disarm the enemy without even being a professional melee, etc. The head of the center himself, who, he said, had never engaged in any struggle disarmed the enemy with a pistol aimed at him in a split second. One admission caused us simply admiration. He literally instantly dismantled the Makarov pistol, which was in the hands of the attacker, and his finger was on the trigger. Only parts flew to the floor. Of course physical training is needed, as are speed and technique. But the techniques are so simple that any sufficiently developed person can master them. At least, a big belly does not interfere (many of the employees who arrived at the training camp were with a solid abdomen). The algorithm of action is this. If you threaten with a gun by any means you convince the attacker that you are not dangerous for him, you are afraid of him, you may even whimper. But always keep your surroundings under control. Try to approach the enemy so that your hands have the opportunity to reach his weapons, but without giving any reason to doubt your safety. Further, leaving the line of attack and simultaneously intercepting his hands with his arms. All movements should be the shortest. There are many opportunities to disarm. For example, with one hand grab at the base of the opponent’s hand, with which he holds a weapon, with the other at the same time, grab the pistol shutter from above and without stopping the movement, move the bolt back. Simply slide the shutter a couple of mm. and even if the enemy manages to press the shutter, there will be no shot, and after completing the shutter to the end and releasing you will get a cartridge bias, since your hand, placed on top, will block the extraction hole and will not allow the cartridge to fly out. Everything, in the hands of the enemy only 810 grams of iron. Your further actions depend on your skill. You can knock out a weapon, wring your hand with a weapon or just run away. This is just one of many ways. You can hold the finger while holding the trigger or the trigger of the enemy’s gun with the palm of your hand (you can use your finger, but if you pull the trigger, the trigger will pinch your finger, and this is sensitive, the palm is not so painful). But all the tricks follow the same algorithm, the same actions with your hands, only different options for intercepting a hand with a weapon and your subsequent actions. Of course, all this requires working out in training, but it is quite accessible for an ordinary person not burdened with knowledge of melee.
  15. erased
    erased 31 July 2015 09: 35
    +5
    "Hand-to-hand combat" is the wrong name for melee combat. Close combat is included in the section of the physical training of a soldier, which is reflected in the manual. The Soviet training system developed in the 20-30s of the last century on the basis of the works of Oznobishin, Spiridonov, Oshchepkov. I recommend that you familiarize yourself with them before writing that everything was invented in the 70s. The training systems for the Red Army and for the NKVD were tested by the war, when they certainly did not learn too much and did not suffer from garbage. On the basis of this, post-war manuals were created.
    In the future, both the methodology itself and the level of teaching were simplified and in some places became formal. At the very end of the 20th century, the army tried to return some of the lost.
    This is briefly about the most close combat.
    As for the methodology, it is based on the applied and educational sections. An attempt to strengthen one of the sections to the detriment of the other leads either to a sports-game version (sports types SAMBO, JUDO, KARATE and others), or to an indicative ballet show such as Aikido performances and the Kadochnikov system. This is also briefly for a concrete analysis will take a lot of time.
    By the way, about all this, 20-25 years ago, they wrote and talked a lot. Maybe you should read these materials before issuing new opus?
    1. CTEPX
      CTEPX 31 July 2015 13: 41
      +2
      Quote: erased
      "Hand-to-hand combat" is the wrong name for melee combat.

      Quote: erased
      Maybe you should read these materials before issuing new opus?

      The author, if I understood correctly, is depressed that one of the SPORTS federations appropriated the title of "army hand-to-hand combat" in the 70s. Anyway, you repeated his (author's) arguments)).
      1. Ile ham
        Ile ham 31 July 2015 23: 23
        +1
        Most likely, the author is upset that RB (real) and all its derivatives (for special units) have become a PUBLIC SPORT. And I still remember (from the distant 1993) my instructor. His expression - "I don't fight on the streets. I was taught not to fight, but to kill .."
  16. Captain45
    Captain45 31 July 2015 09: 42
    +4
    "In the meantime, I see attempts to train combatants in combat skills, dressing them in boxing gloves on soft mats and in sweatpants. And it would be funny if it were not sad. In the end, it is dishonorable with respect to the fighter himself."
    I am not a specialist in the Republic of Bashkortostan, so something was once taught during service in the army and after in the Ministry of Internal Affairs from time to time, but to the above quote I recalled an episode from the book "Face to Face" of the famous SF intelligence officer V. Leonov, when it seems that the nachpo of the Northern Fleet visited his squad during training and was horrified that the fighters were practicing bayonet and knife fighting with real weapons without any insurance in full gear and expressed fear that this would lead to injuries, to which Leonov reasonably remarked like , and that we will also fight the Germans according to the rules. The result, as they say, is obvious, for the war in the North and the Far East, Leonov's detachment had the lowest losses. In the book, he tells how the scouts in his detachment were trained. Here is how it seems to me and the answer to the question about the preparation stated in the article.
    1. Major_Vortex
      Major_Vortex 31 July 2015 09: 54
      +4
      Without gloves, mats and other protective equipment, training is idiocy. To run into a blow with a bare hand even a 2-3-month-old melee is a guaranteed injury. Collapse onto asphalt or another hard surface after a throw - too.

      Work without contact and protect the enemy - this is ballet. In battle, no one will spare you. Therefore, remedies are needed. And working with cold steel teaches you how to handle dangerous objects.
      1. CTEPX
        CTEPX 31 July 2015 13: 49
        +2
        Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
        Without gloves, mats and other protective equipment, training is idiocy.

        If training in the Republic of Belarus is applied, then the use of protective equipment (including mats) is justified for some types of training and some types of competitions. Very dosed. Otherwise, it easily turns into idiocy)).
        1. Major_Vortex
          Major_Vortex 31 July 2015 18: 25
          +5
          Quote: ctepx
          If training in the Republic of Belarus is applied, then the use of protective equipment (including mats) is justified for some types of training and some types of competitions. Very dosed. Otherwise, it easily turns into idiocy)).


          Quite the opposite, without protection, fights are held only on exams, after which many need medical care, and serious injuries occur, even fatal.

          In the process of training, if we don’t defend ourselves, we will get an army of disabled people and cripples, from whom there will certainly be no sense. Some expenses for subsequent treatment and the provision of funeral services.

          Do not fantasize. You will still offer exercises with military weapons and ammunition for REALISM.
  17. Armavir
    Armavir 31 July 2015 09: 51
    +2
    as my commander told me - hand-to-hand combat is something you have to do somewhere ... an automatic machine, a shovel, a knife and on the field to meet the same crucifix ....
  18. Vladimir
    Vladimir 31 July 2015 10: 07
    +4
    If a soldier has a strong and strong physical statue, then he can use hand-to-hand fighting skills, and a person below the average needs a good gun more, maybe I'm wrong - I'm sorry.
  19. D-Master
    D-Master 31 July 2015 10: 12
    +4
    Quote: Mik13
    Have you read the article?
    Maybe people at competitions run in full gear?
    How do you imagine an "acrobatics module" or rolls in armor and gear?
    Have you ever seen what an infantryman looks like? The tip is not at all like in the photo at the top of the article. It shows "ballet", if you are, of course, aware of what it is and how it prepares in the army
    .

    I have read the article and have an excellent idea of ​​what an infantryman looks like in armor and without any reason. For you, a dense one - I explain: acrobatics is one of the ways to develop coordination abilities, which are the basis for the preparation of any fighter, fighter and soldier of a special unit. In a simpler language, this is the preparation of an object, at least for moving on an uneven surface, so that it does not stupidly sit on the h ... tsu. And rolling for ordinary infantry is already aerobatics, though not the highest. Regarding ballet, he himself staged such "ballets" for teenagers more than once. This of course has nothing to do with destroying the enemy, except for one thing. Anyone who participates in ballet can physically learn and destroy. Those who do not participate will never be able to. This concludes our conversation.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 10: 43
      +1
      Quote: D-Master
      On this, I think our conversation is over.

      Why? Nahamili - and in the bushes? This is a real male act! Teach your champions the same?

      Quote: D-Master
      I read the article

      So write right away - I read it, but did not understand. If something is not clear - you ask. Don't be rude from the start. It's not polite. I often observe this behavior in Brusley and Chaknorris, exhausted by long vacations and the absence of a school leadership, but certainly not in the coaches who prepare. "Champions of Russia, Europe and World Medalists in Universal Combat".

      Nobody in the article writes that sports RB is not needed or useless. For civilians - really needed. But an infantryman (in the sense of a soldier who goes into battle, including a paratrooper, reconnaissance, etc.), this training is useless in battle.

      Quote: D-Master
      For you, dense - I explain: acrobatics is one of the ways to develop coordination abilities, which are the basis for the training of any fighter, wrestler and soldier of a special unit. A simpler language is the preparation of an object, at least for moving on an uneven surface, so that it does not stupidly sit on the ...

      The article was written about equipment. Can you even imagine how much everything wears on a soldier in battle weighs?
      The very first problem that a fighter will encounter after your acrobatics is a different arrangement of the center of gravity with all the consequences. Well, if your acrobatics at least will not interfere. I don’t even remember about its usefulness.

      Quote: D-Master
      Those who participate in ballet physically can destroy and learn. Who does not participate - can never.


      I beg you, try dedicated part justify somehow. Of course, I understand that coaches of champions of large and small gyms should not drop their undoubted outstanding authority with such trifles as the proof of their statements, but I hope that you will nevertheless come down ...
  20. redcod
    redcod 31 July 2015 10: 12
    +4
    Hand-to-hand combat is needed and they need to be engaged in order to bring each movement to automatism, so that any movement is reflexive. And already in the second or third year, someone like that comes with a deep understanding. And each has his own, suffered.
  21. Nehist
    Nehist 31 July 2015 10: 31
    +5
    From my own experience: in combat, the hand-gun starts suddenly, all the techniques are completely forgotten, there is about a minute to make a decision and neutralize the enemy. How and how to do it does not matter even with a finger in the eye, even with a helmet in the face
  22. brn521
    brn521 31 July 2015 10: 42
    +6
    If we are talking specifically about our armed forces and conscripts, then we need only a few of the most effective techniques brought to automatism. And sparring will not work here if these techniques are really effective. Something from Thai boxing for example. Powerful blows combined with a short distance, where the machine / bayonet-knife / sapper blade no longer helps.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 10: 54
      0
      Quote: brn521
      If we are talking specifically about our armed forces and conscripts, then we need only a few of the most effective techniques brought to automatism. And sparring will not work here if these techniques are really effective. Something from Thai boxing for example. Powerful blows combined with a short distance, where the machine / bayonet-knife / sapper blade no longer helps.


      I agree, but not Thai boxing ... The procedure is automatic strike, lost (or not) automatic machine - MPL, knife ... And only then the blows - to those places without protection.
  23. Irbis
    31 July 2015 11: 32
    +6
    Here you read some comments and think, and people generally read the text that they discuss? Or read the phrase hand-to-hand fight and then begins the flow of consciousness?

    For starters for history buffs. Do not confuse two parallel systems: sambo (combat sambo) created on the basis of judo by Oshchepkov in 20, the system of cognition created on the basis of essentially ju-jutsu (also sambo) and modern hand-to-hand combat created on a mixture of karate, boxing, sambo and others like them. Learn the story, and do not read picture books. Modern kicks technology that both karate and all other clones love to demonstrate so much, counting taekwondo, kickboxing, etc., was developed by Gitin Funakoshi’s son in the middle of the 50s. Neither Challenge nor Oschepkov simply physically could not know her. Because neither in judo, nor in ju-jutsu it is stupidly not. Modern hand-to-hand combat was developed by a group of students of Kharlampiev, based on their acquaintance with karate. Moreover, they began to study karate under the guidance of the Japanese precisely with its submission. One of these Japanese is now heading the Shito-Ryu Federation (in my opinion, Sato is his name).

    Referring to something else in 20 of the year does not hold water for one reason: the realities of 20s of the last century and the realities of almost 20s of the XXI century are slightly different things.

    This is the first. The second. In general, communication with instructors in various departments shows an amazing picture. In one place RB teaches boxing, in another wrestler, in another karate, somewhere bodybuilder in general. As a result, who is in that much, everyone is trying to convey their ideas mixed with departmental orders, whose provisions sometimes do not withstand any criticism. Where is the system? She is essentially absent only nominally in orders. Well, in some special units. By the way, we have no contradictions with the representatives of these departments, and a common language is found in about five minutes of communication. Because people who have real experience often think in the same categories.

    The third problem arises when parsing the phrase "best practices". What do you mean the best? Best by what criteria? And why did those who took this technique decide that it is better? The technical arsenal in the same east has been perfected within the framework of systems for centuries, and in some places for thousands of years (there are such legends). And he perfected himself according to the tactics of behavior in battle. To pull out the "best trick" without understanding why it is needed in this system is like pulling out a word from the novel "War and Peace". A collection of these "best tricks" tugged on from everywhere, turns into a collection of meaningless trinkets.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 31 July 2015 11: 56
      0
      In a real situation, there is no definition at all of the best technique; there is an effective one. This is a technique that qualitatively disables the enemy in a minimum amount of time. Kicking is beautiful of course, but not effective in practice. If I modify Oshchepkov’s system for realities, I think the most that was bylo, this is my opinion.
      1. Irbis
        31 July 2015 12: 13
        +3
        What does effective mean? The technique is effective when performed at the moment when it should be performed. The inefficiency of technology says only that the equipment was performed stupidly out of place and not at the right time, and this in turn speaks of gaps in training. And no matter what you do - the concept of effectiveness is the same everywhere.

        The problem is not the martial arts themselves, but the lack of a training system. And the main feature of this is the lack of technical uniformity and uniform methods. When part of the head. MC for weight lifting, What hand-to-hand he will teach? And CCM skiing?
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 31 July 2015 12: 37
          +1
          Above, I gave a definition of effective reception, what it does not matter, spitting in the face can be very effective. In a short-range close-to-hand collision, the role is played not by the technique of striking or receiving, but by the speed of its execution; it is not even possible to simulate a situation. The fact that there is no training system is a fact, but it once was. We need a systematic approach to this ...
          1. Irbis
            31 July 2015 13: 52
            0
            You're wrong. No matter how fast you are (and the speed of a person is physiologically limited) if your actions are not adequate to the situation, then this price is worthless. Timeliness, which means being on time in the right place with a technical action adequate to the situation. What gives the minimum cost and maximum effect, and efficiency is important everywhere.

            If the efficiency of your work is in the region of 10%, your work cannot be called effective, since you will "eat" all your physical potential almost immediately. What will you do next?
            1. Nehist
              Nehist 31 July 2015 22: 21
              +1
              From my own experience, one against two, one spat in the face, the other just fell! Well, how do you explain ... Well, there are no tricks in the hand! You want to live, you will have a gnaw with your teeth !!!
              Respectfully to those who understood me!
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. Earnest
    Earnest 31 July 2015 12: 59
    +10
    That is, instead of the natural and necessary part of combat training, we have a certain alien element, which in its present form is useless in battle
    I’ll add not so much as an athlete (well, the former feel , and the current idler laughing ), but as an accomplished commander: RB is needed to educate and train a fighter at the junction of physical and psychological development (we do not take the classic characteristics from NFP - strength, dexterity, speed, endurance, but non-classical) pain endurance, being in a state of constant threat of attack in a limited space and a bunch of other similar details. Someone will say that this is sucked from the finger? And I will say that a kid with the skill of the same street fights more easily perceives the threat of being wounded in a combat situation and thinks less about it "in execution". The best scouts for me came from the Dagestanis (half of the commanders tried to get rid of them, and I collected them angry ), the best radio operators and machine gunners are from the "intelligentsia" ... How can they be combined in one intelligence unit, in one search group? The answer is RB and FP in general, engineering training and, if there is time, drill. The author in vain pulls the RB out of the entire aggregate of the battle, assessing the need for individual training in army conditions. Training as part of a subunit, combat coordination, the use of all (ALL, including RB) means of combat, mutual assistance and camaraderie are the key to the victories of the Russian soldier. Try to prove to me that RB is an individual type of physical training, when in army conditions it is carried out as part of a unit. A platoon of 18-year-old boys with all their show-off, childish pranks, ChSV and other troubles are not two sparring partners! And I will take it and put it as a "dummy" for practicing the "kick from below" of the "crooked" one, and the most indecisive ones will train on it - yes, I would beat the author myself for depriving me of the opportunity to conduct such "trainings"! I don't give a damn about the fight, whether there will be hand-to-hand combat or not, fate will decide, but the invaluable component of the collective (main!) And individual (secondary) education of a fighter, his spirit and character in general - there is nothing to replace RB with!
    1. Irbis
      31 July 2015 13: 05
      0
      You do not read very carefully.
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 31 July 2015 22: 33
        +1
        I read it attentively, by the way, ask your comrades how many people went one on one. The handshake is a dump of evil smelly tired people! Who is in front of you! You weren’t there to understand you .... Regards. And God forbid you to go hand to hand ...
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 31 July 2015 22: 23
      +1
      And in something you are right ...
  26. Geser
    Geser 31 July 2015 13: 17
    0
    Interestingly, what about the melee system according to Kadochnikov? I saw a documentary movie dedicated to this system. Impressive. As far as I know, it is according to the Kadochnikov system that army hand-to-hand combat was built. In fact, hand-to-hand combat is a reserve weapon of a fighter. In the open shuffle with bare hands on the armed agree, idiocy. But the first thing that is taught in hand-to-hand combat is to be able to choose battle tactics. A well-trained hand-to-hand combatant is able to correctly assess the situation and choose the appropriate tactics - one is a warrior in the field.
    1. kafa
      kafa 31 July 2015 13: 54
      0
      One hand-to-hand instructor told his cadets:
      - Hand-to-hand combat, hand-to-hand combat ... to engage in hand-to-hand combat, a fighter must pass on the battlefield: an automatic machine, a gun, a knife, a waist belt, a shoulder blade, body armor, and a helmet. Find a flat area on which not a single stone or stick is lying. Find on it the same twat. And engage in hand-to-hand combat.
      This is not what I said, but I very much agree.
  27. MahsusNazar
    MahsusNazar 31 July 2015 13: 46
    +3
    I read the comments! I read the article very carefully!
    I won’t argue with anyone, I’ll just tell you what they taught me and how it worked in practice.
    And the practice began on the streets of the district called "Bolgarka", which lived under the motto - "not sitting - not a kid." Fights were massive and with the use of improvised means, often homemade and carefully made so as not to get "under the article" (bicycle chains, "pigs", and, as the best option, a soldier's belt with a "miracle badge")
    Street fights taught to spin, not to fall, to beat from any position, to rise if knocked down, not to reckon with minor injuries, but to track their severity.
    Then there was a service in the Special Forces, there they trained physically, taught to finish off. "Dances" were only for "show", but the instructor always said that show is necessary and even irreplaceable, but it is dangerous to get carried away with them.
    As a result, already in adulthood, I got into a situation against several, until my skills were let down, and I won’t go into battle without weapons, even in hand-to-hand fighting, they didn’t beat the speed bump, but finished it off.
    That something like this.
    1. RiverVV
      RiverVV 31 July 2015 14: 32
      +3
      About the same school, everything was just beginning in Kazan, and the area was "Degtyarka". And still uncomfortable without a knife in my pocket. You can, of course, do something with your fists, or with improvised means, but ... it's better to have it.
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 31 July 2015 21: 42
        +1
        And I had the usual sambo and boxing .. So far in the army .. well, it so happened, that we spent 10 days with us ..
        The first thing he said on the assignment was to knead, forget your sports habits ..
        And then he showed me what this means .. At first I threw it over my hip, in sportswear .. with support .. Then, as it should ... I was looking for a couple of minutes ..
        then he showed some simple, terribly simple tricks .. but I used it a couple of times in my life .. I don’t drink, but I really wanted to drink after that ..)))
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 1 August 2015 00: 49
          +1
          So how is it? The funniest thing is that the ambala 13 year old girl can send to the other world! What about the guys then talk ... They brought an example from life ... But then the masters of sports revive ...
    2. Nehist
      Nehist 1 August 2015 00: 46
      0
      I will answer honestly! Finish the recumbent so that he doesn’t get up again! You wrote everything correctly and apparently we have one school, street !!!
  28. Free Island
    Free Island 31 July 2015 13: 51
    0
    quote from article :)) "In the East, martial arts were taught primarily tactics and strategy of combat, discipline and the ability to think in various situations. Therefore, as a rule, they developed among the military elite. It's like chess, only with the help of arms and legs. For some reason, these chess pieces are used in boxing gloves for hitting on the head, although this is only a part of their functions, and not the most important ... on Sakhlin and Kuril Islands))))))))) AUTHOR, THINK ABOUT THIS)))) no need to turn our heads to the east again)) Bruce Lee and Vanya Dam are just ballerinas who worked for the public))))) ) forget about these two heroes of your cassette video childhood))))))))
    1. Irbis
      31 July 2015 14: 04
      +3
      Do not carry nonsense and less read bedtime stories.

      For your information, my dear connoisseur of war tales, the presence of many katanas in the Japanese army does not mean that this is a samurai. Secondly, being a samurai the likelihood that you would be engaged in martial arts in those days to strive for zero. It is like an elite occupation and professional wars to the 40 years of the last century were very few in the army due to the elimination of samurai as a class. In the bulk of the Japanese army was recruited from yesterday's peasants, because at that time this country was, although it had industry, but was agrarian.

      So turn on your mosk better and think about who the Cossacks actually chopped.
    2. Mik13
      Mik13 31 July 2015 14: 18
      +2
      Quote: Free Island
      apparently this is why our KAZAKI were so famously RUBYING JAPANESE SUPEREXTRAMEGA OF HANDMARKERS FIGHTERS DURING THE SECOND WORLD in Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands))))))))) AUTHOR, THINK ABOUT THIS)))) do not turn our braces again and Vanya Dam is just ballerinas who worked for the public)))))) forget))))


      Nothing, not long left ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
  29. RiverVV
    RiverVV 31 July 2015 14: 28
    +3
    The author is naive. In fact, a melee is not necessary at all in order to defeat enemies with its help. In order for a soldier to engage in hand-to-hand combat, it is necessary: ​​to lose weapons, a helmet, a belt, a shovel and boots, find a level field, on which there are no stones, no branches, find another similarly gouging on this field and enter into hand-to-hand fighting the fight. They say that this button accordion was invented by Kadochnikov.

    In fact, hand-to-hand combat is primarily a means of moral and psychological training of a soldier. Not even physical, oddly enough. You can build two squads against each other and say, "Boxing, five minutes." Gloves are not required, it is enough to prohibit blows to the head and groin. After five minutes, move one formation relative to the other by one person and repeat the command. Opponent knocked out and knocked out are eliminated. Or the rule "loser drops out" works. Then the soldiers themselves decide who will stand up against whom.

    In such marathons, the strongest rarely wins. Decides stamina and willingness to stand to the end. If the department is soldered, then he does not even have a permanent champion.
  30. gcn
    gcn 31 July 2015 15: 37
    0
    If a person is larger than you, then he should use this a little bit slower. It is bad if he is approximately comparable in speed of reaction and you were taught by one instructor (officer) then there is only one option for a seam, an unexpected blow without a pattern and one is better
  31. Mikhail3
    Mikhail3 31 July 2015 15: 45
    +4
    Quote: activator
    At a friend, my grandfather served in some unit, either SMERSH or a saboteur, in general a long time ago, he told me honestly, I don’t remember. damage with one blow and use everything that turns out to be handy. One drawback was that he couldn’t use it in his village in the event of a fight because he couldn’t knock out one blow to the head and he couldn’t, but would simply mutilate people I would do Adam's apple, hands, Avy. Yes, and it was impossible to use the prison immediately.


    Well yes. This is army hand-to-hand combat as part of the preparation of the battlefield. What the respected author writes about is that he died in the army. The USSR lost the Cold War, and the victors took all measures so that the vanquished would not rise, preferably never. How is this done?
    Among other things - the help of blocks and bookmarks in the systems of preparing the country's future. We see the hellish failure of education, completely destroyed by skillful measures aimed at the future. And we see complete disorientation and misunderstanding of the very essence of training a human soldier. The funny dances that we see in the "Dynamo school" are really almost impossible to imagine in equipment in a real battle. But even that is not bad.
    Why teach melee? It is not so easy to answer. Because instead of answering, one must ask the question - who is being taught? Very different things - holding sports competitions (which our leaders have been so keen on lately) and military training. A sports approach, regardless of the techniques being learned (even if they are all secret, secret, super-efficient, etc.), is generally not applicable to military affairs.
    Of course, swinging is better than drinking. But on the basis of a fat muscle and full of fists, people begin to consider themselves fighters! And they are, at best, special forces "Delta" - fat pitching without a single victory. The very understanding of why and what to train has been lost. By the way, Heinlein, to whom the author of the article refers, understood something in this matter. And we had such an understanding.
    Well, the winners of the Cold War have applied their tricks to the bearers of this very understanding, so there are no others, but those farther ...
  32. Petrik66
    Petrik66 31 July 2015 22: 00
    +3
    In 1991. I won bronze at the USSR Taekwondo WTF Championship in Tashkent. And this is full contact, albeit with serious restrictions. in 86 he finished his service in the red army, was in the special forces. In the army, you need to learn to move, and all these pseudo-scooters are nonsense. In South Korea there is a taekwondo academy - kukivon, I was there twice and listened to stories about the "terrible" Tiger division, where everything is like one - black belts. During his service in Vietnam during the war, not a single case of hand-to-hand combat with the enemy was recorded. Well, except for the fact that to drink bottles on the head and swim in the pool ?????? General physical training is necessary, and instead of learning a pseudo-scooter for show-off in front of generals and girls, it is better to march - throw and three horns on plywood adversaries.
  33. Nehist
    Nehist 31 July 2015 22: 50
    +1
    Guys !!! Those who really were in hand-to-hand combat! Have you used the tricks ?! Me not! I wanted to live, that on hand came under that and worked !!! Need to be ready to kill, or they will kill you! I’m ending the debate, and then here all sorts of CCMs and so on which, apart from the mats, did not see anything, well, and besides MATs they don’t deserve anything! Prepare the champions, let them defend their homeland at the competitions! And give everything else to us! Ordinary fighters who were not taught anything but those who simply did their job! So I understand that few people drove home 200 ?!
  34. Whiskey
    Whiskey 1 August 2015 00: 22
    +1
    "Belang" Krasnopolsky, Petriy, Fomichev - this is about the difficulty of switching from shooting to hand-to-hand. There, even the stands are identical - with or without a gun.
    It is a pity if new methods are not used in our army. But still it seems that what is being taught is very different from the part, the instructor, etc. .. So it’s not so sad, even if the guard uses these practices.
  35. Raider
    Raider 1 August 2015 01: 51
    0
    I am not a Candidate Master of Sports in any kind of martial arts, not a holder of black belts, I was seriously involved in athletics, basketball - 1 category in all. Grew up in the era of perestroika. The streets were dark. I tried karate, kickboxing. Not mine. But he learned basic kicks with his feet. I understood how it happened to fight a sambist in a fight, if you don't knock you out with the first or second blow, you will be strangled on the ground. I went to judo. For this, he even gave up athletics and basketball (for some reason, one did not interfere with the other, so by the way). ATP coach, I came and took it back. In total, before the army, I was a "runner", with a small set of knowledge and the simplest techniques of striking and wrestling techniques and the rule, who hit first is the winner. By the way, practically every boy owned it in the dashing 90. Someone "swayed", someone "meowed" like Bruce-Lee, who studied 12 techniques of Buddhist monks, there was no Internet, people disappeared in basements (all sections of then newly emerging sports started there, so for history), fitness centers was not one word.
  36. Raider
    Raider 1 August 2015 01: 51
    +6
    After the KBM and the oath, we passed the deadlift, like push-ups for a while, press, 1 km run, pull-ups and brush press. Were weeded out. They sent me to the training school, before the army they had a driver's license, I really wanted a freebie, I approached an officer-countryman, he promised, you’ll be a driver. I got into reconnaissance for junior commanders. I am not inventing anything, I write as it is, I left 69 kg, became 66 in training, came 74 kg. As long as I remember, we run, do push-ups. In the morning, the thought - how to live this day, in the evening, thank God, another day has passed. All running. On the fists. Do you want - a report and back to the troops, no one bells, as in "Soldier Jane". 3rd floor. 25 meters smoking room. Smoke? Line up, report, run, smoke, run, line up, report - 3 minutes. For 3 months, in principle, this hell has become an ordinary army life. And the next 3 flew by. But this is the lyrics. And now to the article. The first to drop out were pitching and generally the guys with "tank" dimensions - endurance, here is the soldier's main weapon. In the 9th round in boxing, they hug more, in the army, those who have the strength to stand on their feet after the fight and put everything into one blow. During the march, all the "Schwarzenegger's relatives" begged them to be abandoned, the law of the army - I do not exist, there is - we, the last time. We had to drag him and his ammunition with weapons. Gone. The instructor immediately repulsed the desire (literally and figuratively) to kick above the belly, to fall to fight. We stand without belts and weapons, uniform no .. I don't remember, "Your weapon, soldier? Boots !!!" and then a blow to the shin (this was then the boots appeared). Finish, finish hard. Work with a knee, a knot from a tree, a stone, a ballpoint pen. Kill and survive. Leave the lines of fire or strike with weapons (by the way, as in the video, always by turning the body). And then how lucky you are and who will be your opponent. Patience.. It doesn’t matter pain, thirst, etc. the main thing is self-confidence, you will bear it and go through, which means - the absence of fear, a psychological victory over yourself. And then, already at home, I realized that self-confidence allows you to do without fists, your confidence scares people who are looking for fear in you and gives confidence to your friends. We were taught this way, if a soldier ran 5 km, you must run a sergeant 10, can not you? take off do not disgrace the baubles. Hand-to-hand combat is not only physical training, but more psychological. Here I told the ATP, to my running trainer, and in truth, like a horse he ran and ate oatmeal, which was then a shame to look into the horse’s eyes laughing... And there were no beautiful kicks, "mills", uppercuts. "Automatic" kats were of course. And ahead was December 1994. I didn't have to apply there, but you always think about it, and if all of a sudden ... everything in life happens for the first and last time, melee bypassed me there. DMB-94-96. A lot of lyrics, excuse me, you start to remember, your hand reaches for a glass ... IMHO (yes, I was 3rd grade in chess, I'm not kidding, my father played perfectly, taught). something like that. Good luck and health to you and your loved ones!
    1. MahsusNazar
      MahsusNazar 1 August 2015 23: 44
      0
      Shaami-Yurt 2001 - platoon commander, I understand what you mean, brother, and yes, the Special Forces behind
    2. MahsusNazar
      MahsusNazar 1 August 2015 23: 44
      0
      Shaami-Yurt 2001 - platoon commander, I understand what you mean, brother, and yes, the Special Forces behind
  37. Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder 1 August 2015 16: 08
    +3
    Another addition. Martial arts came from Chinese or Japanese real battles in battle. All this technique, as one of the members of the forum put it, and I agree with him, is a continuation of the blows of a sword or any other cold weapon, because before that they fought with just such a weapon and there was a full contact battle. Then a firearm appeared, but due to its low rate of fire, the infantry went to the infantry in a bayonet attack, and there was not so much one-man skill as the Japanese used to fighting one on one, but the coherence of the action of the warriors nearby, he stabbed - you beat off the attack. Then an automatic weapon appeared and now it’s logical that something like this appears.

    Below.
  38. Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder 1 August 2015 16: 10
    0
    For some reason I did not get into the comments above.

    1. Irbis
      1 August 2015 16: 49
      +1
      I sometimes have the idea that this movie has more common sense than most "combat systems".
    2. Throw
      Throw 2 August 2015 02: 46
      0
      Here it is more clear))



      1. Throw
        Throw 2 August 2015 02: 59
        -1
        And this is a mixed style, kik-gan-kata bully

  39. Vladycat
    Vladycat 2 August 2015 03: 49
    +2
    I'm far from RB, of course, but there is some experience. Now I am serving in places not so remote bully . Yes, our specialists come to physical training and give us RB skills. But experience has shown that it was precisely in an emergency that he was not needed. At first I watched, and then took part (although we are forbidden), in putting things in order. And I will say that there were no beautiful receptions there. A good yard fight with the use of special equipment (at times any improvised item is the employee’s special equipment), with the task of laying everyone on the floor.
    Somehow interesting people came to our city (from Moscow and Ivanovo) with a seminar on Russian Hand-knitting. I liked the expression - "You have to learn to fight so that you can fight in extreme old age." They showed us something reminiscent of contactless combat (a little easier than I thought), battle in the dark (with closed eyes). And not any techniques and certain movements. Everything is based on the correct vision of the support team (from the outside it resembles aikido) While there were enthusiasts, we studied a little on a voluntary basis. And as a result, he put a paratrooper in sparring, and one graduate of a military school, who bragged about his RB. I admit that the fight was not serious, and in reality they may have banged me, but they were unpleasantly surprised by the ease with which they lay on the floor.
    Any kind of martial arts is a system. And you can pick up a key to the system. This is her weakness.
  40. saygon66
    saygon66 3 August 2015 13: 35
    0
    Hand-to-hand fighting on the street ... what By the nature of work, we often have to deal with those who want to wave their hands and feet, the impression from these meetings is the following: you need to study the techniques used by the orderlies of the "psychiatric hospital"! laughing
    - "Kitchen fighters" impregnated with vodka and "chemistry" do not feel pain - you want to break it, you want a soul: a person will feel the consequences after the "substances" stop acting ... "Cutting out" such a client is easy to bend - And .. hello, zone! "I saw a wonderful technique of holding, when 2-3 people sit on the asphalt, a killer under a hundred - it really helps! And there is a minimum of damage ... and that is, such that hands" with meat "from the bracelets are ripped out .. ...
  41. would
    would 6 August 2015 09: 06
    0
    It is always quite funny to read such articles from people who, to put it mildly, do not understand what modern combat is. Especially for those who do not understand, I explain everything as simplified as possible

    1. There is a massive development of enemy positions from artillery / aviation which destroys everything in its path. And in the case of a sliding rampart of fire, it plows the earth along with it, burning it a few centimeters deep. After this item, the plowed field remains.
    2. There is heavy equipment in the form of tanks (and probably in the future TBMP) that destroy everything in their path along with the support of aviation and artillery.
    3. Following are BMPs that complete what they started and land infantry again under enemy fire.
    4. Infantry without armor under enemy fire when bullets are whistling in the air, fog from fragments and real fire, under the howls of an MLRS, trying to squeeze their own * well, you understand * are pressed into every bump, praying into every hole that they would not be killed (and the fragments because they also fly from above) and shoot out with an adversary of which they often don’t even see. They see a certain object / area from which they shoot and try to shoot at it. And this object is located at least 300 meters, or even more.

    In the brains of the ARB adherents, apparently, a fighter in such conditions should stand upright and from his brutal appearance all the bullets and fragments will fall before him and he will run hundreds of meters like the hero of an action movie, he will run to the enemy’s positions and will stop shooting at him from the sight of his coolness and will enter into hand-to-hand combat. laughing It would be funny if it would not be so sad to hear about such nonsense from people who, in fact, in which case fight. Here is just one pearl from the text

    about anything at war, and if suddenly tomorrow a fighter during a battle in a city collides with an enemy face to face, and he will not be able to shoot - for example, he has not had time to recharge, or a dive, or ... It will be better for the fighter, and for his comrades, if he will be able to upset the enemy even in such conditions.


    The reality is very harsh and in it, with the exception of extremely specific cases outside the real battle, there is no place for the use of hand-to-hand combat.

    That is why ARB is a restorative discipline whose goal is to strengthen a fighter physically, increase his strength and endurance, and it is also very important to make him believe in himself so that he acts more boldly, aggressively and confidently on the battlefield. And no more.
  42. ratcatcher
    ratcatcher 9 September 2015 01: 14
    0
    Reasoning about the same topic
    http://shri-boomer.livejournal.com/410982.html?thread=26527334
  43. alleksSalut4507
    alleksSalut4507 25 October 2015 17: 44
    0
    I agree, the battle is like in chess-move (movement) to move.