Military Review

Undershoot. Flight. Undershoot

77
Undershoot. Flight. UndershootWe are near Kiev in a crowd lying
Artillery beats on its own.
This is our intelligence, probably
Landmark pointed incorrectly.
Undershoot. Flight. Undershoot.
According to its artillery beats.
They would have to beat on strangers,
And they are in their own, by darling.
(Artillery song).

In the Soviet Union there were six higher command artillery schools. Three of them in Ukraine - Odessa, Sumy, Khmelnitsky. The rest in Leningrad, Kolomna and Tbilisi. Three Ukrainian military districts accounted for half of the artillery schools of the Soviet Army.

The Kiev, Odessa and Carpathian military districts have always been the ultimate dream of every Soviet officer. The service there was not only the easiest in terms of climatic conditions, but also envisaged a swift replacement of the Group of Forces to Germany, Poland, Hungary, and Czechoslovakia. I was not lucky. The Soviet government did not let me into the “Kalashny row”. Therefore, I served in the “prestigious” Trans-Baikal and Turkestan military districts as a commander of an artillery platoon and a battery with guns: 100-mm MT-12, BS-3 and 152-mm “Hyacint-B” with a range of 40 km of nuclear ammunition.

Why am I doing this? And besides, I can professionally evaluate the artillery war in Novorossia. And he reminded about the schools that it was more understandable. The best artillery officers live in Ukraine! These schools were mainly local guys. After trying to get to serve closer to home, and already retirement and in general in other places and were not going to. And now they are fighting in the Donbass. On the one and the other side. Yes, there are many young people there, but they were taught by Soviet officers. And training in the Soviet military high schools was brilliant. And in the military, the service did not seem like honey, and many were “lucky” to fight in Afghanistan.

Judging by official reports, now the war in the Donbass basically comes down to artillery duels. And here begins the most incomprehensible. Why such amateurishness? Well, just a military-sports game "Zarnitsa". On television and photographs, anti-tank guns with open and not trenched openers. Any recruit soldier knows that the first thing to do is to dig into the ground. The blessing is not the mountains, but the Don steppe. In a state of ignorance, the gun shoots where it wants, and not where it hovers. She jumps like a frog. This gun has a smooth barrel (without rifling). It is used only for direct fire shooting (I see - I shoot). The ellipse of dispersion is maximum. Any senior battery officer would have nailed the gun commanders with a stick. Because it is better without a pair of idlers than the death of the entire battery after the first volley. The answer will arrive instantly.

Illiteracy is also visible in every official and unofficial information: “artillery and rocket launchers”. Yes, it is the same thing. “Grad” is artillery, but reactive. And what's the new post - “spotter”? Remember, Poroshenko blurted out: "We caught the spotter." No in artillery units and parts of such posts. Fire from closed firing positions (when the target is not visible) is led by the battery commander. It is located with its NP in the forefront of the infantry, and the battery in 10 – 20 km from the front line. And only the battalion personally firing. You can shoot without visual contact: on the map. The coordinates of the target are known, data is being prepared (even the amendment for the rotation of the earth is taken into account) and “Battery stand! The goal of 25, infantry ... volley fire. "

Counter-battery shooting is a classic type of artillery combat. It can lead every battery commander, even young. They spotted a shot, prepared the data, and before the enemy curtailed and changed the firing position - fire. The battery of the enemy should not survive if it is discovered and did not have time to leave this OP. It is therefore surprising that every day we are hung on the ears of the Lagman, that an enemy battery is firing from one or another settlement. And where are your gunners, comrades militia?

If you don’t, then quite elderly retired artillerymen will surely respond. Just throw a cry. After all, artillery systems have not changed. These are all invincible Soviet weapons.
Author:
Originator:
http://nvo.ng.ru/notes/2015-07-17/16_artilleria.html
77 comments
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  1. Tanais
    Tanais 19 July 2015 05: 50
    +12
    Yesterday my son, in Donetsk social media groups, "fished out" information about the shelling of the center of Donetsk ...

    2. In Donetsk groups they write that a kapets rattles in the City, there are arrivals at Universitetskaya, Artem, Shchors. Damn scary. Donetsk, hold on. Donbass, break through.
    1. domokl
      domokl 19 July 2015 06: 36
      +48
      Article shine. I fully agree with the author. At one time, he was often present at the work of art. The officers on the map "hollowed out" the enemy clearly.
      I had a version — in order to shoot, you need to shoot .. But it fell away by itself — they have been shooting for the second year.
      So art works, most likely "for a piece of paper".
      1. Good me
        Good me 19 July 2015 07: 24
        +23
        Quote: domokl
        So art works, most likely "for a piece of paper".


        Really, they threw pieces of paper ...

      2. tol100v
        tol100v 19 July 2015 22: 31
        +15
        Quote: domokl
        Article shine

        The math is even higher. But Peace is needed there, and not war, where We are being pushed! ARTA is always above everything Respected only one science, MATH! Without it, i.e. mathematics ARTA is blind like a mole on a sunny day!
      3. Duke
        Duke 20 July 2015 15: 58
        0
        Article shine. I fully agree with the author. At one time, he was often present at the work of art. The officers on the map "hollowed out" the enemy clearly.

        Totally agree with you Alexander.
      4. edge
        edge 20 July 2015 16: 28
        0
        Quote: domokl
        Article shine. I completely agree with the author.

        for sure, at the beginning of the development of the situation, I said the same thing about the commander training of shooters ....
      5. haak1970
        haak1970 21 July 2015 15: 55
        +1
        This diet confirms that our troops are not there.
      6. Alekseev
        Alekseev 21 July 2015 19: 15
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        So art works, most likely "for a piece of paper".

        Well, if it were just for a piece of paper, then Debaltseve would hardly have taken and the Ukrainian army would not have dug trenches and bunkers with bunkers, but would have been eager to block the border.
        At the same time, since they shoot intensively at Donetsk, it means that the enemy’s firepower is not sufficiently suppressed.
        Not knowing the details is difficult to draw conclusions.
        After all, in order to get from the self-propelled guns "to Donetsk", and not to suppress the platoon stronghold, it is enough to shoot "in the direction" and while the projectile is flying, start leaving with firing ...
        Here the task is different - not to destroy the militia units, but as Parashenka said: "It is necessary that the children sit in the basements and do not go to school, and that is the only way we will survive."
        So you need to destroy the artillery of the enemy, not only during the firing period, but always. And this requires reconnaissance and target designation, and high-altitude ammunition, and, of course, the actions of front-line aviation, or at least the OTRK or Smerch with new missiles (Tornado-C), would be nice.
        All this is not just purely military, but also for political reasons. But, probably, it’s inevitable, because without good tundles the banderlogs will not scatter and I will shoot from guns and mortars and fall into residential areas.
  2. bender8282
    bender8282 19 July 2015 06: 14
    0
    it’s just an eternal sloppiness !!! and nobody wants to fight, except for headless fanatics!
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 19 July 2015 06: 27
      +5
      Explain dear, whom did you mean by headless fanatics? what
      1. Good me
        Good me 19 July 2015 08: 07
        +8
        Quote: pv1005
        Explain dear, whom did you mean by headless fanatics? what

        I myself really can’t understand how to evaluate a comment.
        It is written do not understand how.

        Execution cannot be pardoned ...
        1. Vitaly Anisimov
          Vitaly Anisimov 19 July 2015 08: 11
          +3
          Quote: Good I
          Quote: pv1005
          Explain dear, whom did you mean by headless fanatics? what

          I myself really can’t understand how to evaluate a comment.
          It is written do not understand how.

          Execution cannot be pardoned ...

          Yes to shoot nafig and all affairs ... bully
          1. cayman gene
            cayman gene 19 July 2015 08: 49
            +21
            Quote: MIKHAN
            Yes to shoot nafig and all affairs ..

            you'd better do massive work, explain our policy, and shooting is easy.
            M.A. Sholokhov Virgin Soil Upturned. yes
            1. Vitaly Anisimov
              Vitaly Anisimov 19 July 2015 09: 19
              +6
              Quote: Cayman Gena
              Quote: MIKHAN
              Yes to shoot nafig and all affairs ..

              you'd better do massive work, explain our policy, and shooting is easy.
              M.A. Sholokhov Virgin Soil Upturned. yes

              Yes, I’m kind of ... But sometimes it’s useful to shoot! bully (for the general concept of the political situation)))) Plus you .. laughing
              1. Knight
                Knight 19 July 2015 10: 34
                +1
                Quote: bender
                it’s just an eternal sloppiness !!! and nobody wants to fight, except for headless fanatics!

                Quote: good me
                I myself really can’t understand how to evaluate a comment.
                The author believes that there are no specialists, so "headless fanatics" are fighting. Minus bender from me.
              2. cayman gene
                cayman gene 19 July 2015 11: 54
                +8
                Quote: MIKHAN
                . But sometimes it’s useful to shoot! (for the general concept of a political situation

                Vitaly, do not throw words. personally, I’m sure you won’t shoot, you have a different profession, and if not an executioner, then there’s no need to shoot.
              3. P2002
                P2002 19 July 2015 17: 58
                0
                Quote: MIKHAN
                Quote: Cayman Gena
                Quote: MIKHAN
                Yes to shoot nafig and all affairs ..

                you'd better do massive work, explain our policy, and shooting is easy.
                M.A. Sholokhov Virgin Soil Upturned. yes

                Yes, I’m kind of ... But sometimes it’s useful to shoot! bully (for the general concept of the political situation)))) Plus you .. laughing

                Nah, shoot it like two fingers about .... b, but then who will fight?
        2. tol100v
          tol100v 19 July 2015 22: 43
          0
          Quote: Good Me
          Execution cannot be pardoned ...

          Deal with commas!
      2. The comment was deleted.
  3. mig31
    mig31 19 July 2015 06: 22
    +4
    To silence the guns, you need such a charge !!! in response to the war party - an echo of this shot rocked the white house with its macaques ....
    1. Pathfinder_II
      Pathfinder_II 19 July 2015 08: 18
      +1
      ... such a shot so that the macaques are obnagodali and fall from the branch into their own ...
    2. Andrey NM
      Andrey NM 19 July 2015 08: 41
      +4
      To silence the guns, you need such a charge !!! in response to the war party - an echo of this shot rocked the white house with its macaques ....


      They do not have macaques there, but Makkaki ... Moreover, they are already in years, with progressive senility ...
      1. Vasek
        Vasek 20 July 2015 18: 20
        +1
        Quote: Andrey NM
        not macaques, but mccaki

        Is the Scots really?
        1. proletarian
          proletarian 21 July 2015 23: 20
          0
          Not a pin-wasp by type, McCain.
  4. Putinets
    Putinets 19 July 2015 06: 23
    +33
    And what kind of new position is the “spotter”? Remember, Poroshenko blurted out: "We caught the spotter." Not in artillery units and parts of such posts. Fire from closed firing positions (when the target is not visible) is led by the battery commander. He is located with his NP in the front ranks of the infantry, and the battery is 10–20 km from the front line. And only the battalion commander personally fires.


    Dear author, Your humble servant was just 2,5 years a spotter of fire in Afghanistan. I was intelligence chief adn. In addition, spotters of control platoon, VUN team, and battery commanders went with spotters. Sometimes, when it comes to it, at the same time the fire was corrected not for batteries, but even for guns, there were not enough batteries for all correctors. 149 MSP 201 MSD. So the post is old.
    But the fact that the level of training is zero is another matter. In Sumy school, which was quickly plundered and destroyed, there was a good preparation.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 19 July 2015 06: 32
      +28
      Quote: Putin
      In Sumy school, which was quickly plundered and destroyed, there was a good preparation.

      Right! only many good specialist officers did not join the Ukrainian army. So the current ukroartillerists were taught by C grade students. And who teaches them there? A month in training and take a walk, take a bullet. And if they are still from "Svidomo", they don't care where to shoot, just to destroy more. Are they hitting on their own? God help me! As for the militia's artillery, no one seems to have complained that they are destroying peaceful neighborhoods. well, except that the "talking vest" writes off everything to the militia, as it is due to his position.
      1. VadimSt
        VadimSt 19 July 2015 07: 32
        +30
        Really! There are shellings and counter-battery shooting every day. Almost every day, on the side of the DPR and LPR, new victims and destruction appear ... And so it has been for over a year. But neither the OSCE, nor the world community notice that the victims and destruction are only on one side - in the territories of the LPR! This is what makes the Kuevo junta periodically arrange provocations (Boeing, Volnovakha, Mariupol ...) and present the atrocities of "terrorists" to the world. And only then, the kuevy world unanimously stands in a pose, raises a screech, howl, comes to hysteria and declares that Russia is an aggressor, sanctions, urgent mobilization of everyone and everything to fight the world's evil. Fed up with bastards!
        Plotnitsky said correctly: - "Than such peace, war is better"!
        1. Pathfinder_II
          Pathfinder_II 19 July 2015 08: 25
          +23
          I do not understand the position of Russia. We have already been blamed for everything and everything, we streamline for a whole year. Why is it impossible to wage a counter-battery war from one’s territory (or with a small jump in the territory of the LPR)? Destroyed, went out and turned on a full information jammer (a dozen counter-news on the news, DDOS sites, etc.). Why is it impossible to prepare normal artillerymen from Ukrainians-militias? Supply modern artillery systems, ammunition, radars, topographic information systems, reconnaissance and communications? We are all united in a shop, so let everyone else be just as fun.
          1. Tanais
            Tanais 19 July 2015 08: 41
            +19
            Quote: PathFinder_II
            . Why is it impossible to prepare normal artillerymen from Ukrainians-militias?

            Who told you that there are no "normal gunners"? Have you read the article? But this is just a PRIVATE OPINION, without any special "binding" to the actual situation.
            And in FACT, our artillery (when they give it to shoot, "Minsk" damn it ...), does VSUshnikov in full.

            Quote: PathFinder_II
            Supply modern artillery systems, ammunition, radars, topographic information systems, reconnaissance and communications? We are all united in a shop, so let everyone else be just as fun.


            Why is this not so, ask your apologists for "Minsk" and "there is no possibility of a solution in any other way than peaceful" ...
          2. tol100v
            tol100v 19 July 2015 22: 53
            -4
            Quote: PathFinder_II
            so let everyone else be just as fun.

            Let the State Department become FUN, and you will FORGET quickly!
          3. tolyasik0577
            tolyasik0577 20 July 2015 14: 41
            +2
            And why, it’s interesting, it’s already a year that the junta has been hollowing out the DLNR and still can’t clear it of the "terrorists". The army, organized (at the very least) and armed with much more systems and ammunition, is opposed quantitatively and qualitatively to the weaker militia, which, apart from patriotism and the experience of previous warriors (the Afghan who was 30 years ago), had nothing. And then suddenly the militia will suppress the firing points of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, then burn the equipment, then smash the column. This LJJ is not casual ...
        2. Per se.
          Per se. 19 July 2015 21: 24
          +8
          Quote: VadimSt
          Plotnitsky said correctly: - "Than such peace, war is better"!
          Long before Plotnitsky, this was asserted by the ancient Roman historian. Publius Cornelius Tacitus ~ Bad peace is even worse than war. In general, the separatists are not the DNI and LC, they want to return home, to Russia, and all this Bandera piss, that the Russians were embarrassed to be, betrayed Russia and the memory of their ancestors. Now, indeed, dill, it is a Russian bitten by a Pole, or a traitor to the patient’s head.
    2. sssla
      sssla 19 July 2015 08: 25
      +3
      Quote: Putin
      So the post is old.

      The author correctly says that there is no such DUTY. You yourself write that as spotters ---
      Quote: Putin
      spotters went comm platoon control, com VUNA, battery commanders.

      Com platoon and com batteries HERE are posts! A spotter is not such a position hi
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 July 2015 11: 34
        +1
        Quote: sssla
        Com platoon and com batteries HERE are posts! A spotter is not such a position

        It depends on where. I mean, depending on which army. NATO members with their Anglo-Saxon model of artillery use have full-time spotters.
        1. sssla
          sssla 19 July 2015 12: 14
          +1
          Quote: Spade
          It depends on where. I mean, depending on which army

          I do not mind anyone, BUT, it was about the Soviet-Russian-Ukrainian general our armies.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 19 July 2015 12: 27
            +1
            Et yes.

            In addition, if, for example, the battery commander is sitting in the bushes with intelligence, then he is not a spotter. Strictly speaking.

            Because he, unlike the spotter, controls the artillery fire. He has a lot more rights.
            1. tol100v
              tol100v 19 July 2015 22: 59
              0
              Quote: Spade
              He has a lot more rights.

              He is just a commander. Though batteries, even a division! But he is a commander! And his word is ORDER!
      2. proletarian
        proletarian 21 July 2015 23: 27
        0
        There is no position, but there are spotters; is there some kind of paradox?
        Or am I wrong?
    3. Do not be angry
      Do not be angry 19 July 2015 10: 26
      +8
      Quote: Putin
      And what kind of new position is the “spotter”? Remember, Poroshenko blurted out: "We caught the spotter." No artillery units and parts of such positions ....

      Dear author, your humble servant was just 2,5 years a spotter of fire in Afghanistan

      Quote: sssla
      The author correctly says that there is no such DUTY. You yourself write that as spotters ---
      Quote: Putin

      spotters went comm platoon control, com VUNA, battery commanders.

      Com platoon and com batteries HERE are posts! A spotter is not such a position


      Maybe there is no position, but there is a function, a job.
      In general, here's what else puzzled me
      In the open state, the gun shoots wherever it wants, and not where you aim. She jumps like a frog. This gun has a smooth barrel (no rifling). It is used only for direct fire (I see - I shoot).

      It’s clear that a spotter is not needed for an anti-tank gun - I see it, I shoot (in fact, I need it because it sees the shooter from the AK where the bullets go very poorly), but does the spotter really need to be fired from closed positions of 152 mm?
      But they don’t dig in the guns because they’re not in the exercises - you need to turn around, fire and get out of position as quickly as possible.
      1. sssla
        sssla 19 July 2015 10: 28
        +3
        Quote: Fight
        but the function, the work is there.

        In function, no one spoke against it))
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 July 2015 11: 50
        +3
        Quote: Fight
        It’s clear that a spotter is not needed for an anti-tank gun - I see, I shoot

        Anti-tank guns shoot most beautifully with closed high-explosive shells. True, the range dispersion is quite large.

        When firing direct fire at a fixed target (task 1a), the gun commander receives an assessment. By moving (task 1b) - gunner
        So I think it’s clear who is the spotter here

        Quote: Fight
        But they don’t dig in the guns because they’re not in the exercises - you need to turn around, fire and get out of position as quickly as possible.

        They bury themselves. For MT-12 and T-12, it is not in vain that such openers are made.
    4. chenia
      chenia 19 July 2015 12: 09
      +4
      No position spotter. there is no position of the chief intelligence officer of the division in the military academy.

      On the first. any officer gunner just MUST be able to adjust the fire. Sometimes (when a deported cadet from art.VU appears in the unit and falls into the position of the intelligence department), they give a shot for a show off (they say which eagles were learned and this position generally involves performing the 4th task).

      according to the second - there is in the wood (or battery WU). position of the Commander of Intelligence.

      When thrashing around the city, most likely based on complete training. The data is given by the senior boss (I feel this is not the level of the battery or even the division).
      In principle, the calculations do not know where to beat. But any officer has a map and it’s not difficult to determine where the shells went (in the village or in the field). And then the calculation knows that they are shelling the city.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 19 July 2015 12: 34
        0
        Quote: chenia
        there is no position of the head of intelligence of the division

        ?
        How is it not?
      2. Putinets
        Putinets 19 July 2015 13: 52
        0
        No position spotter. there is no position of the chief intelligence officer of the division in the military academy.

        Excuse me, what army doesn’t have such a VUS? Open the Battle Manual. There are even duties.
      3. chenia
        chenia 19 July 2015 21: 52
        -1
        I agree, I was mistaken. in separate divisions there. There was never regimental subordination (except in groups of forces), everything was pulled by the Commander of Wood and intelligence and communications (and all this hung on the NS and the KD group).

        We generally have Com.WOOD (warrant officer), he is also the foreman of the division (exotic position) and the economic department was thrown to him. In batteries (40 people) and only two officers - Kom. batr. and Sob.Starshina battery conscript (aka deputy comm. OV-1, aka KO-3). Such are the states of peacetime.
        1. sablt
          sablt 20 July 2015 12: 10
          +2
          The 122mm howitzer artillery division in the Soviet Army was the main firepower of the motorized rifle regiment, was part of it, even in the state of peacetime. The division’s intelligence chief (captain’s position) organized the KNI equipment for the division commander and reconnaissance in the division (three batteries of 6 guns) information was sent to him and from the platoon commanders of the control of all three division batteries. Basic shooting based on full training (all corrections according to meteorological conditions are introduced - meteorological). The proofreader can use any scout issuing a break mark to the shooter, relative to the target (capture in the plug). When shooting a target, the spotter gives me only a break sign - a flight, a shortage, and that’s all. The shooter divides in half and shoot to kill.
          1. chenia
            chenia 20 July 2015 17: 29
            +2
            Quote: sablt
            The 122mm howitzer artillery division in the Soviet Army was the main firepower of a motorized rifle regiment


            Thank you I am in the know. The deployed regiment (peacetime staff) is about 1700 people. full staff of about 2.5 thousand. ADN about 160, a hundred less. Battery 39-40 two officers (instead of 5), etc. Woods hung on the NS (the KD group, the NS group. Geodesy. Conjugation. Communications) - just an intelligence department, a communications department. calculators. Com WOOD ensign.

            Words adjustment This is when you submit data to the battery for execution, and not a deviation of the gap. And there is definitely no such position.
            1. Lexa-149
              Lexa-149 21 July 2015 14: 35
              0
              In my GSADn, there were 149 people in peacetime in the state of peacetime SMEs. And there was always an HP position. But the commander of the Woods has no artillery military high school.
              http://yv-gontar.io.ua/s204353/shtaty_artillerii_suhoputnyh_voysk_i_vdv
      4. Lexa-149
        Lexa-149 21 July 2015 14: 27
        0
        How is it not ?! Where are you doing ?!
        belay
    5. NEXUS
      NEXUS 19 July 2015 17: 08
      +4
      Quote: Putin
      But the fact that the level of training is zero is another matter. In Sumy school, which was quickly plundered and destroyed, there was a good preparation.

      Schools not only ruined them. Serdyukov, so that he was empty, how many schools and institutes did he bury? Now you need to build ships, but there are no specialists, you need to expand the production of aircraft and adjust, there are no specialists, you need designers to design bureaus, and just the skilled workers, and this all the cat cried. Some kind of result, not chatter and bragging, we must first educate people, prepare a base for how and where to work, and then ask them. All of this we lack kotostrafically, but the office of officials is expanding and growing.
      Therefore, there are many talking places, but things are still there.
      1. Franky elvin
        Franky elvin 19 July 2015 23: 39
        -7
        There will be at least 60 thousand salaries in Moscow for junior employees of the Design Bureau, then at least one of the specialists will go there.
        Well .. or you can give defense enterprises to completely private hands, as in civilized countries.
        1. Franky elvin
          Franky elvin 20 July 2015 15: 36
          +1
          Shouldn't people who ensure the security of a country be prestige in this country? Or at least receive according to your work and rare qualifications?
          The state in our country either does not know how or does not want to.
          I just don’t understand why there are so many minuses to the comment.
    6. tol100v
      tol100v 19 July 2015 22: 49
      0
      Quote: Putin
      was a good preparation.

      It was a good preparation!
    7. Sharapov
      Sharapov 20 July 2015 15: 57
      +2
      I was also lucky to go through SWAKU - 1983-87 years 13 batr. Condemning the number of graduated officers now is an empty undertaking. The army was destroyed in the 90s and zero years (and especially successfully in Hohland). So I quit as a captain in 1993 and went to serve in other power structures, which I do not regret. So, only 26 out of 4 people who released my platoon into retirement by gunners, and those in Russia. I also communicate with Ukrainians of the same schoolmates — all of them are mainly engaged in commerce, hiding from the grave, and, due to the collapse of the army, have long forgotten the smell of gunpowder ..
    8. Lexa-149
      Lexa-149 21 July 2015 14: 17
      0
      Absolutely fair remark, colleague! I also served in the 149th guards of SMEs, in the 2nd General Assault Brigade, but after Afghanistan. In Tajikistan.
      I have the honor!
  5. Tanais
    Tanais 19 July 2015 06: 26
    +9
    Why such amateurism? Well, right military sports game "Zarnitsa".

    To all these reproaches, some of them may be fair, I will nevertheless note - in Zarnitsa, the militia's artillery won and wins, despite any "deviations from the regulations" ...
    A video of that year, just for illustration.

  6. Barakuda
    Barakuda 19 July 2015 07: 06
    +8
    As far as I know - calculation is stupid, bring it up, put it in, leave your ears, close your ears. I talked with the commander - I do not care where they gave, and I’m bulging there. Correctors need to shoot, it is better to start with the Supreme Council. And then they are surprised at captivity - they shot at residential areas.
    1. Donch4ak
      Donch4ak 19 July 2015 07: 29
      +16
      Yes deliberately beat, in the Lugansk maternity hospital, for example. And the fact that captive eyes are a bundle of surprise is a good preparation for the case of captivity.
      1. Pathfinder_II
        Pathfinder_II 19 July 2015 08: 30
        +13
        Well, why is this "naivety"? When the captured "artillerymen" will be shot, then the "epiphany" will come to minds.
        1. Tanais
          Tanais 19 July 2015 09: 02
          +3
          Quote: PathFinder_II
          Well, why is this "naivety"? When the captured "artillerymen" will be shot, then the "epiphany" will come to minds.


          Zakharchenko announced that they would not take prisoners of fire in the cities.
          But here a collision arises ... How can you take them prisoner or destroy them, if following the notorious "Minsk", the militia does not conduct active DB? Plus, they also made a commitment, in a UNILATERAL order (!!!), to withdraw all artillery less than 100mm 3 km from the front line ...
      2. tol100v
        tol100v 19 July 2015 23: 17
        +1
        Quote: Donch4ak
        . And the fact that captive eyes are a bundle of surprise is a good preparation for the case of captivity.

        Bring in a clean field and give their coordinates! And the question will be removed from the agenda!
    2. tol100v
      tol100v 19 July 2015 23: 15
      0
      Quote: Barracuda
      . Spotters shoot

      Correctors do not shoot, but you need to shoot!
  7. Donch4ak
    Donch4ak 19 July 2015 07: 26
    +4
    At the expense of not buried guns, it's true. There is even a story from Donetsk about how the not buried "Rapier" jumps when fired. It is worth noting that, most likely, the guns are not buried for a simple reason - in order to quickly leave after a series of shots. Further, last summer, a couple of streets higher, they did the sighting of the RZSO. One or two rockets were fired in a certain direction. Shot, silence, shot again. With regards to
    Just throw a cry.
    - there, without a cry, there is enough with it with their toys and not quite convinced. Much can be written, especially about last summer in Lugansk, but I don’t really want to ...
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 19 July 2015 07: 34
      0
      I do not agree about the "Rapier", the commander of the crew simply fired at the squares, the installation was, according to the returning mobilized man. Not lying, it makes no sense. True, they lived in the cellar, if not for the volunteers - kapets.
      1. Tanais
        Tanais 19 July 2015 08: 02
        +10
        Quote: Donch4ak
        At the expense of not buried guns, it's true. There is even a story from Donetsk about how the not buried "Rapier" jumps when fired. It is worth noting that, most likely, the guns are not buried for a simple reason - in order to quickly leave after a series of shots.


        There is no time to "dig in according to the rules" ... They rolled up, aimed, fired a shot (shots), left.
        They left, not expecting a "response" ... Only this way, and not otherwise. We don't need dead heroes.

        Quote: Barracuda
        I do not agree about the "Rapier", the commander of the crew simply fired at the squares, the installation was, according to the returning mobilized man. Not lying, it makes no sense. True, they lived in the cellar, if not for the volunteers - kapets.


        These are yours, "Svidomo motivated heroes", hit the squares. And ours, they are aiming, exclusively at the invaders ...
        1. Sharapov
          Sharapov 20 July 2015 16: 24
          -1
          Ours are Givi and Abkhaz, videos with which are on YouTube, in which these "leaders" of the militia are leading the calculations of MT-12? True, the guys aim at the barrel - they have no optics .... More than once the punitives complained about the accuracy and efficiency of the militia's artillery fire .... After watching these videos, with aiming through the barrel, I got stronger in the thought that it was not quite the militia who were hitting the punishers. ...
  8. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 19 July 2015 07: 54
    +9
    Pounding scum on residential blocks .. And they all know and understand where the shells fly ...
  9. ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 19 July 2015 08: 12
    +2
    Maybe to send military experts to Donbass? winked
    1. Tanais
      Tanais 19 July 2015 08: 21
      +6
      Better, try to explain to your "promoters of the Minsk agreements" that they ("agreements") are death for Donbass.

      1. Vitaly Anisimov
        Vitaly Anisimov 19 July 2015 08: 28
        +4
        Quote: Tanais
        Better, try to explain to your "promoters of the Minsk agreements" that they ("agreements") are death for Donbass.

        Do you think Russia is easy ..? And so we try as best we can, the losses we have are not small .. hi
        1. Tanais
          Tanais 19 July 2015 08: 53
          +15
          Quote: MIKHAN
          Do you think Russia is easy ..? And so we try as best we can, the losses we have are not small ..

          You know, just by phone, I spoke with Donetsk. Yesterday, at 22.30, I could not get through. There was a shelling of the city center, we were sitting in the basement, and therefore did not answer. I heard, feel better ...

          So they are DELIGHTED, from Zakharchenko's new PEACEFUL INITIATIVES ... And in FULL. They remembered both him and Putin, together with the little one and the monkey ... And the "minsk" and much more.

          An elderly disabled miner, did not regret expressions in anyone's address. If you skip all the "PI", then from about a five-minute conversation, only: "Hello, alive, everything is fine" ...
    2. Pathfinder_II
      Pathfinder_II 19 July 2015 08: 54
      +7
      Where to get them yourself? The Artillery Institute (formerly EVACU, SVPTAU) was closed in our city.
      1. BOLSHEVIK
        BOLSHEVIK 19 July 2015 12: 12
        +8
        Quote: PathFinder_II
        The Artillery Institute (formerly EVACU, SVPTAU) was closed in our city.

        And here is another one:
        Tula Higher Artillery Engineering Orders of Lenin and the October Revolution College named after the Tula Proletariat.
        Higher military educational institution of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, which existed from 1869 to 2010 and trained technical personnel (gunsmiths, military technicians, artillery engineers) for the Russian imperial, Soviet and Russian armies. In these years, it was transformed eight times and traveled a glorious path from an arms school to an artillery institute. The most outstanding event in the history of the TAII is the participation of cadets of the Tula arms and technical order of the Lenin School named after the Tula proletariat (the name TAII was from 1937 to 1958) in the battles for the city of Mtsensk in the composition of the 1st separate Guards Rifle Corps with 3 October 15th, 1941.
        The school survived all the times and more than 140 years carried its glorious traditions, but could not survive the times of Putin-Serdyukov, in 2010 the school was closed ....
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 19 July 2015 12: 37
          +2
          This is not at all. Not the commanders.
          1. Do not be angry
            Do not be angry 19 July 2015 12: 47
            +7
            Quote: Spade
            This is not at all. Not the commanders.

            And those specialists aren’t needed anymore?
            Who will provide the opportunity to command?
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 19 July 2015 13: 08
              0
              Are needed. But this is a completely different topic.

              According to the commanders, they closed Kolomenskoye and Yekaterinburg. But at the same time St. Petersburg will issue more commanders than it was in the previous scheme.
  10. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 19 July 2015 08: 47
    +12
    Maybe not quite in the subject, but I consider a landmark event! Donbass does not win ... Hold on guys! Glory to the Airborne Forces!
  11. midshipman
    midshipman 19 July 2015 09: 34
    +13
    Thanks A. Luchaninov. You put everything right in its place. Khokhlov artillery should not work at all, it must be destroyed instantly. I will give an example from history. G.K. In 10 days, Zhukov created such a system of artillery defense in besieged Leningrad that the Nazis could not put forward even a tank platoon to the forefront. Correctors were at the House of Soviets and the meat factory. Naval artillery of the main caliber and railway artillery (305 mm) struck with an accuracy of 20-30 meters. The last ones were created by my father, he died on December 27, 1941. I have the honor.
  12. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 19 July 2015 10: 01
    +2
    Regarding the artillery in Donbas ... Firstly, they show on TV only what they give to show: they try not to show anything to anyone at the combat positions. What flashes on TV is mostly staged, or somewhere in intermediate positions, or some secondary parts at the stage of preparation or somewhere else. Secondly: the artillery is operating there "on the move", that is, it fires several volleys and immediately recoils from the position, as the detection stations work well for all parties to the conflict and "goodies" will immediately arrive in response, therefore the positions are prepared "in a hurry." And thirdly ... do you really think that only "volunteer battalions" and militias are fighting there ... tongue
    1. Tanais
      Tanais 19 July 2015 10: 09
      +2
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      And thirdly ... do you really think that only "volunteer battalions" and militias are fighting there ...

      Question to whom?
  13. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 19 July 2015 10: 37
    0
    Quote: Tanais
    Question to whom?

    To the author of the article and to all those who continue to "be smart", "lying on the couch" staring at the "zombie box" and drawing "information" from it.
    1. Tanais
      Tanais 19 July 2015 11: 00
      +4
      Quote: Monster_Fat
      To the author of the article and to all those who continue to "be smart", "lying on the couch" staring at the "zombie box" and drawing "information" from it.

      You know, not having other, sufficient sources of information, And "zomboyaschik" can become an "ersatz" of an alternative source.

      You just need to think a little. "Shake the hemispheres."
    2. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 July 2015 11: 55
      0
      Why do you think that it is impossible to gather information from the "zomboyaschik"? Especially if you are aware of how combat work should be properly organized in the fire department.

      Now, if, for example, after a shot, the tip is not restored (both sides of the conflict are sinning), what should this indicate? That's right, about poor training.
  14. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 19 July 2015 11: 10
    +2
    Quote: Tanais
    You just need to think a little. "Shake the hemispheres."

    In this, you are absolutely right.
  15. Signaller
    Signaller 19 July 2015 12: 09
    -1
    Yes, it’s right. In that year I already wrote about it. About counterfire shooting. Then there appeared infa that the militias were waging such a struggle. I was glad. But rapiers or MT shoot, if you look at this shooting, almost direct fire. What area, what volleys from the closed positions ????. We see-shoot. I am really touched by shooting from tanks. Crawls and shoots. Where???? Apparently the dogs that the sea divorced. Well, in the village of a tank-in the palm of your hand. One shot from an RPG and a tank cap. A ride shoot at the crows, and how much noise.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 July 2015 12: 41
      0
      Quote: Signaller
      What area, what volleys from the closed positions ????

      At the school, they fired twice on live firing from the D-44. From closed fire stations. Great substitute for systems like "Genocide"
  16. Asadullah
    Asadullah 19 July 2015 14: 00
    +3
    ))) I always felt black envy for the gunners. Returning from the mountains, from the face, - only eyes, good at another fifty degrees the dirt falls off from the body, a walkie-talkie, l \ s drags two more pencils, and these, well-fed, glazed, drunk without recoiling)))
  17. sap
    sap 19 July 2015 14: 45
    -3
    Well, the Rtellirian retirees and storekeepers have found a topic to help. When Gunpowder tried to talk about the "spotter", it was unlikely that he meant the position, apparently it was just about a person correcting artillery fire, this is just like the drug addict pilot Savchenko, who was accused of coordinating the artillery fire on journalists. But what is interesting is not discussed, but meanwhile the author writes:
    - "On television and photographs, anti-tank guns with unburied openers and without a trench. Any soldier-recruit knows that the first thing to do is to bury himself in the ground. Fortunately, these are not mountains, but the Don steppe. In an unburied state, the cannon shoots wherever he wants, and not where It jumps like a frog. This gun has a smooth barrel (no rifling). It is used only for direct fire (I see - I shoot.) The dispersion ellipse is maximum. Any senior battery officer would have nailed the commanders of the guns with a stick. better without a couple of idlers than the death of the entire battery after the first volley. The answer will come instantly. "
    1. Lexa-149
      Lexa-149 21 July 2015 14: 54
      +1
      "On TV and photo frames, anti-tank guns with unburied openers and without a trench. Any soldier-recruit knows that the first thing to do is to bury himself in the ground. Fortunately, these are not mountains, but the Don steppe. In an unburied state, the cannon shoots wherever it wants, and not where you point it. It jumps like a frog This gun has a smooth barrel (no rifling) It is used only for direct fire (I see - I shoot).
      And with the PDO, the MT-12 fires superbly, so that the author bends. Even the tank can shoot with the PDO from its smooth-bore gun!
  18. ROMAN VYSOTSKY
    ROMAN VYSOTSKY 19 July 2015 15: 31
    +1
    I can personally testify - everything written in the article is absolutely true. But not all. Part. It is comforting that ukrov's position in art is even cooler.
  19. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 19 July 2015 16: 45
    +5
    Quote: Spade
    What should this indicate? That's right, about poor training.

    No, not right. This indicates: 1) or "staged" shooting - for a film report, 2) shooting at "white light as a pretty penny" - for those targets that cannot "respond" and are not of particular value ("disturbing fire", etc.) that is, over the areas, precise aiming is not needed.
    In addition, it is important where the video or reportage came from: if professional cameramen are filming, then the shooting is 100% staged, because no one in their right mind will ever let a cameraman take combat positions, especially if they need to be quickly changed and reciprocal "goodies" can be expected.
    If the video is "amateur", then the shooting is carried out across the squares and again, the one who shoots with a mobile phone or something else has time to do it, he does not expect return fire.
    If they are fighting "in an adult way" then there is no time for filming, believe me. The only one who can shoot artillery during a real fire raid is some half-wit who accidentally found himself in this place from other military units and foolishly unaware that response "stars" will soon arrive from the other side. But, believe me, there are very, very few such half-witted people - they do not live long.
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 19 July 2015 17: 47
      +1
      Staged, not staged ... what's the difference? To restore the tip is like an ass after a trip over a large wipe.
  20. Alcoholic
    Alcoholic 19 July 2015 20: 23
    -1
    Madness is crazy, not an article.
    And again, they did, they taught ...
    Mdaaa.
  21. Tester
    Tester 19 July 2015 20: 38
    +2
    Quote: "Therefore, I served in the" prestigious "Trans-Baikal and Turkestan military districts as the commander of an artillery platoon and a battery on guns: 100-mm MT-12, BS-3 and 152-mm Hyacinth-B with a firing range of 40 km with nuclear ammunition. " Sorry, of course, but speaking of illiteracy there is no reason to show yours. 152-mm "Hyacinth-B" at 40 km never fired, even with an active-reactive one.
  22. zinander
    zinander 19 July 2015 22: 15
    0
    There was also a Kazan school and it was also closed by a stool. There was information in 2014 that, like Shoigu, he ordered the restoration, but I do not know how much this corresponds to reality.
  23. Wolka
    Wolka 20 July 2015 05: 05
    0
    The artilleryman is right in his own way, he is a personal plus, but there was no command-order to respond to the destruction of the enemy, nobody canceled the one-man command in the army, apparently a game of politics is going on, and it was this amendment that he apparently did not take into account, and there is nothing to do with personnel, I think it was not for nothing that Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky again showed a "gesture of goodwill" and pulled the weapons down to 100 mm. by 3 km. from the line of contact, but here apparently not only politics, but probably a tactical maneuver to pull the dill into a bag, block them, and then the conversation will be an ultimatum peace, or ... autumn, winter, but soon
  24. tracker
    tracker 20 July 2015 06: 44
    +1
    By the way, I heard the statements of the militias, on the side of the Armed Forces there are very competent artillerymen, to see officers from the old Soviet school, they covered positions in response in time.
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 20 July 2015 15: 02
      0
      Quote: Pathfinder
      there are very competent gunners, to see officers from the old Soviet school, covered positions in response in time.

      Good communications and drones, no tricks.
  25. Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 20 July 2015 08: 51
    0
    Quote: sssla
    Com platoon and com batteries HERE are posts! A spotter is not such a position


    Position - comm. Platoon, and functional - spotter. It does not interfere.
  26. sablt
    sablt 20 July 2015 11: 31
    +2
    Dear, according to the presentation of the material, you are not like a professional in the field of artillery. This is too much for you, you still need to learn. Fire control is conducted by the shooter, as a rule, an officer, but even sergeants should study sighting with a rangefinder. The shooter calculates the settings for shooting, makes adjustments during the firefight, all in accordance with the "Rules for shooting and fire control of ground artillery".
    Foolishly wrote this, "the battery is located 10-20 km from the front edge! Where will it shoot then? On its own, probably. The firing range of 2C-1 or D-20 if my memory serves me 15 700 meters. What will I capture from the enemy if I will place the battery 10-20 km from the front edge. Correction for the rotation of the earth ??? - collation is called. This is how far you shoot the road ??? In the barrel artillery, an amendment is made for the rotation of the projectile in the channel of the svola-derivation is called. nonsense in a small text dear.
    The artilleryman - Odessa Military District 59 MSD.
    1. avdkrd
      avdkrd 20 July 2015 12: 57
      -2
      Quote: sablt
      Firing range 2C-1 or D-20 if memory serves me 15 700 meters.

      Changes - D20 has a range of 17400, ARS 24000m, Gvozdika and 15000m, but there are, say, Croatian ERBB 122 HB shells with a range of 21km. The "genocides" have a range of 30.500 m (OFS) in the towed version, both sides have.
    2. corn
      corn 20 July 2015 13: 43
      +4
      Quote: sablt
      - call is called.

      Probably a correlation? (From Latin - correlatio “correlation, interconnection”), although I am only the son of an artillery officer.
    3. Lexa-149
      Lexa-149 21 July 2015 15: 06
      -2
      The correction for the Earth's rotation is introduced when conducting mortar fire.
  27. Yasondinalt
    Yasondinalt 20 July 2015 12: 36
    0
    The questions are correct! But maybe we don’t know something, this is the policy? As the captain of the raid in "Cold Summer ..." - so it must be!
  28. RusOdessa
    RusOdessa 20 July 2015 12: 55
    +1
    If you look at the chronicle of the summer and, especially, winter battles, you can see that the results of the BCH artillery are much more effective than the APU. The APU works on areas, and the VSN destroys point targets (a tank, a roadblock, etc.) and almost without shooting is a sign of skill. Indeed, even with the availability of technical reconnaissance, target designation, and topographic referencing without the proper preparation of shooting installations and competent gun crew operations, the target cannot be destroyed.
    I think this is a consequence of the work of "vacationers", tk. the training of artillery officers to the level of the Soviet Army ceased more than 15 years ago, so these personnel have long been retired from the military. Of the three schools, not a single one remained. First, Khmelnytskoye was closed, then from Summskoye they made a military institute at a civil university, and then transferred to Lviv, and Odessa graduated the last gunners in 1997 (personally released as a design bureau) and then trained only officers of the RAV service.
    Now only Lvov trains artillerymen, where the entire base was created from scratch (after 2004, Yushchenko said that "true" patriots of Ukraine can be brought up only in Lvov). The command and teaching staff of the destroyed schools did not move to a new place and resigned, and almost half of the teaching material that had been created over decades was destroyed.
    Thus, deliberately, the continuity of generations was terminated. The current "artylerists" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine are a Ukrainian product of extremely low quality.
  29. NACC
    NACC 20 July 2015 13: 24
    0
    I didn’t understand something, the author calls on dill to shoot in the Donbass better and more accurately !!! ???
  30. koralvit
    koralvit 20 July 2015 15: 47
    +1
    One thing is clear, it is "headless fanatics" who shoot at residential areas, and whether they are specialists or not is another question. And if so, then they need to shoot in response, so that it is not confusing. They need to know that the answer will be, and will be, prompt and accurate. Then the shelling of residential areas will stop. And to persuade and conscience is useless.
  31. xomaNN
    xomaNN 20 July 2015 19: 08
    +1
    The question is precisely what uk. ar-you officers somehow once 10-15 years taught theory, served and occasionally fired. Those. now shoot at residential areas consciously. This is to the plane of humanism.
    And what about the DPR with regular personnel? After all, the whole vertical from the battery to the division by trained officers in the military cannot be bought? feel
  32. sellrub
    sellrub 21 July 2015 00: 22
    +3
    It is nice to read an article by a respected professor at the Artillery University.
    Dear colleague! War is OTHER. We do not know in what tactical conditions the AFU units are, how long the APU artillery in occupied positions will carry out firing missions.
    What intelligence tools do militias have? And so on and so forth, and so on ...

    Obviously, you watch few videos on YouTube. Look, dear colleague. There are examples of the BRILLIANT training of Ukrainian artillerymen. Great management, confident teams, great time ...

    You know ... When REAL military operations begin ... for some reason, the Shooting Rules and Combat Regulations are FORGOTTEN IMMEDIATELY.

    In a war in a military BASHKA, only that they were hammered with an ax with a teacher Luchaninov .... or, say ... Kobylin. Brilliant teachers! Only from the first day of REAL military operations do the previous military governing documents become outdated. It is with this FIRST day of the war that NEW Combat Regulations and Shooting Rules begin to be written.

    In this article, you evaluate the level of professional training of Ukrainian artillerymen. Commendable! But .... is it necessary to talk about this? It is NECESSARY to say that today's blood is killed by civilians from a fragment of Ukrainian artillery shell.

    And ... where did it all start? Right! FROM betrayal! Since taking the Oath of the "new" Ukraine. See what it has LEADED to? Ah, you ... shoot badly .... Alas! However, they shoot well! Another thing ... - where they shoot and why. With respect.
    1. Lexa-149
      Lexa-149 21 July 2015 15: 12
      -2
      Great comment! good
  33. Leeder
    Leeder 21 July 2015 01: 46
    0
    Quote: PathFinder_II
    Why is it impossible to wage a counter-battery war from one’s territory (or with a small jump in the territory of the LDP)

    Calculated instantly. Firstly, you can detect from satellites, and secondly, there have long been systems that calculate the coordinates of the battery. Do we need it? You won’t get rid of anything!
    For such things, I think some interested parties are especially hunting.
    But training would not hurt. But who knows, maybe there is. winked
  34. W stock
    W stock 21 July 2015 08: 56
    -2
    A very good article. Based on reports from the front, dill is not intentionally aimed at artillery, but with only one purpose - to demoralize the enemy and exert psychological pressure on the civilian population. It is clear that the artillery pieces are not laymen, but people with a military education. Therefore, shells falling into residential buildings, near hospitals, schools, kindergartens and other non-strategically important facilities, were not aimed. Do not underestimate the enemy.
  35. Neva_baz
    Neva_baz 21 July 2015 13: 38
    -2
    I liked the article. Everything is written correctly. If the enemy’s battery fires at residential buildings, it must be destroyed or suppressed. Maybe dill just has a longer range, but the DPR does not have such systems? With a good binding of the OP, NP and preliminary preparation of the shooting, and if also shooting the rapper - then when transferring fire to the target, the accuracy is high. At the expense of spotters. Yes, there is no such position in artillery. The duties of a spotter are usually performed by a trained fire platoon officer or military command officer.
  36. yehat
    yehat 21 July 2015 14: 22
    -1
    I want to say my "but" to this article. The author claims that the cannon-battery fight is successful after detecting fire. Oh well. In Leningrad, they waged an active counter-battery fight for more than a year, had a well-functioning and very good network of spotters who spotted the fire of the batteries and reported exactly where from.
    The fire was conducted not only by field howitzers, but also ship artillery even from a battleship, which has both an effective caliber and the best sighting devices. A huge amount of firing was carried out.
    Historians write that there were successful firing, the fire was "suppressed", the battery was "covered" or "destroyed". However, what are the real results? Less than 1% of retaliatory attacks yielded concrete results in casualties. Only a few UNITS of guns were destroyed - this is the official statistics. This is from real military history. And I do not believe the gallant graduates of artillery schools, who talk "just give me the coordinates." Of course, artillery has improved over the past 60 years, but not enough to drastically change efficiency. Counter-battery firing is not as effective as many say. And I consider the bravura statement of the author of the article to be idle chatter.
  37. Hannibal Lecter
    Hannibal Lecter 21 July 2015 20: 08
    +1
    Long-range artillery is generally not an easy thing. I remember at the beginning the first shot was counted for an invisible target 1 hour 20 minutes. And the rotation coefficient of the earth was taken into account, the heating of the trunks is a correction for each next shot. Correctors, of course, if possible, if probes are also needed in the atmosphere to measure the strength of the wind in the layers that the projectile passes through and again make corrections. There are many more things until the first time you shoot. Further after the first series as Santa Barbara. Correctly calculated, it means that for all guns, calculations for all fire are suitable.