Military Review

Spread 360 degrees. Why we do not stack with China

168
After intense summits of BRICS and SCO, the press was filled with pompous headlines about the upcoming “new world order”, which will be determined by the union of China and Russia. However, in reality, this alliance is not in a hurry to form, breaking up against the inertia of the Russian bureaucracy and the “public opinion” of the elites.

In the first six months of this year, the volume of trade between Russia and China declined by almost a third compared with the same period last year. At the same time, exports from China to Russia decreased by 36,2%, and from Russia to China by 23,9%. Of course, the reason for this was the weakening of the ruble, the economic problems of the PRC, and the fall in oil prices. But the matter is not even in these figures, but in the fact that the “turn to the East” does not seem to be taken seriously by anyone except the top political leadership of the country. I will give an example.

Recall the Chinese project "New Silk Road". One of the branches of the corridor "Western China - Western Europe" is a modern automobile highway almost 8,5 thousand kilometers long. Most of them have already been built - this is 3,4 thousand km in China and 2,7 thousand km in Kazakhstan (the site is completed and will be commissioned next year). For Kazakhstan in general, this construction has become a real national project, on which N. Nazarbayev has high hopes. And it is clear why this is the revival of trade, the development of small business along the highway (often in depressed regions of the country) and, in the end, the most modern road infrastructure in Kazakhstan. Moreover, this is, in fact, an extremely important Eurasian project, because it connects not only Kazakhstan and China, but also Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan, and Tajikistan. With Russia by itself, but here there is a hitch. Next year, the Kazakhs will bring their plot to the border with Russia in the Orenburg region, and then the fate of the project completely depends on us, and not to say that it is positively determined. We are still thinking whether we need it. No kidding.

It got to the point that Nazarbayev personally asked D. Medvedev to connect to the project and pull the road to St. Petersburg through Moscow, Kazan, Orenburg. I will note here the obvious fact that we need a road for all the same reasons as indicated above. This is especially true not spoiled by investments and development projects of the Orenburg region. But instead of vigorous work on our part, we see the already familiar red tape:

“On the eve of the meeting of the first persons of the Orenburg region, who discussed the construction of the highway (...) When construction begins, the federal authorities did not respond. This is due to the fact that there is no agreed project and, consequently, funding for it. To begin construction, it is necessary to prove the future efficiency of the road. First of all, it should have a return, be convenient for residents and guests of Orenburg ... ”

Actually, this is all that we need to know about the “turn to the East”, which was first announced, if I'm not mistaken, in the 2012 year.

In the same Orenburg region there is a wonderful city of Orsk on the very border with Kazakhstan. So: in the nearest Kazakhstani city of Aktobe (also known as Aktyubinsk), signs on the doors of the offices of large international companies are duplicated, in addition to Kazakh, in Russian, English and Chinese, and their top managers speak Chinese fluently. But after a little more than a hundred kilometers, in the Russian Orsk, the Chinese were only seen on TV.

One gets the feeling that the Russian management and business elite, which is habitually oriented towards the West, still consider turning the East to be a temporary political bliss of top management. It is understandable. After all, her money is not exactly stored in Asian accounts, and overseas property is not in Beijing and Shanghai. If you read the numerous statements of HSE experts (namely, they still largely determine the economic course of the country), the gap between political declarations and real practice becomes even more obvious. Add here almost complete disregard of China by our media (except for rare outbreaks of interest about summits or any bird flu) and the resulting ignorance and denseness of society, which remains at the mercy of outdated myths about China.

In general, the country still hopes for the lifting of sanctions and the restoration of ties with the West more than for integration with Asia, although time requires from us quite different.
Author:
Originator:
http://www.odnako.org/blogs/razvorot-na-360-gradusov-pochemu-u-nas-ne-skladivaetsya-s-kitaem/
168 comments
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  1. ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 19 July 2015 14: 49
    +107
    Our bureaucrats can only stir up work in the fresh air with a shovel or ax.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. fridge
      fridge 19 July 2015 14: 52
      +16
      Or a portrait in the office above the table with Gaddafi, as a reminder.
      1. Vasek Trubachev
        Vasek Trubachev 19 July 2015 15: 06
        +58
        According to media reports, Chinese banks, just like European ones, do not give long-term loans in Russia, it is not profitable for the Chinese! "Friendship is friendship", but they will only do what is good for them!
        Yes, and the memory is still alive of those who remember the insidiousness and arrogance of the Maoist hunweibins with cititniks, who, to match the modern maidan Khokhlov in Kuev, stormed the border crossings and Soviet missions in China.
        1. Baikonur
          Baikonur 19 July 2015 15: 07
          +33
          The Chinese, as always, are friends first! And then - Everything can be! I too, on Putin’s place, were friends with suspicion and caution! Moreover, there are many examples of history!
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. aleksfill
            aleksfill 19 July 2015 16: 04
            +14
            You cannot completely rely on China, China, as an ally, friend, companion, is unpredictable precisely because of its mentality, all that we see in China,
            as in a partner - a mask, always smiling, sometimes fawning, often with bows
            and always with a feeling of unsaid. I think our politicians do not feel
            the danger that ANY relations with China are.
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 19 July 2015 18: 30
              +9
              Quote: aleksfill
              You can’t completely rely on China,

              You can’t rely on it, but you need to build a road. The federal highway will not hurt. I’m afraid that Tajiks will just build ....
              By the way, our friend went to Abkhazia and says that the Germans built the roads there, back in 2009. are still good
              1. sap
                sap 19 July 2015 23: 09
                +2
                Only the main highway, and the rest is Mr. God forbid, the devastation as it was post-war has remained, the Russian business is squeezed out and there is no money. 90% have Russian passports and receive Russian pensions and social security benefits, but with an ambition. was 2012 40 days in Gudauta, on the beach I talked with V. Kolesnikov (the borrower Chikatilo and the Deputy Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation at one time), he was a native of the city. Now I can imagine the situation with intra-clan showdowns well.
                1. opus
                  opus 20 July 2015 02: 05
                  0
                  Quote: sap
                  and the rest is Mr. God forbid, devastation as it was after the war

                  Not true, except for specifically national ones (in the mainstream of the mountain tongue)
                  At present, in Abkhazia there is a fairly developed network of highways, in the improvement of the quality of which sufficiently large funds are invested annually by the standards of the republic. So, the Abkhazian section of the M-27 highway was repaired, which now has a fairly high-quality asphalt surface. Quite quickly, asphalt is laid in the cities of the republic, as well as in large villages. In essence, the vast majority of villages, even the most remote ones, can be reached from the capital of Abkhazia within 2 hours. For this, off-road vehicles are not required at all, since even dirt roads are generally in satisfactory condition. This is a great advantage of the republic, creating conditions for the involvement of all regions of the country in economic activity.
              2. opus
                opus 20 July 2015 02: 04
                +3
                Quote: Pilat2009
                and says that the Germans built the roads there, in the distant 2009 year. still good

                1. Lies. Not a single German company will build roads in Abkhazia
                2. They (roads) and in Germany "nothing", there the standard is 5 years, if I'm not mistaken. Milling the right lane (LKW) and then, if it was a hot summer
            2. sap
              sap 19 July 2015 22: 55
              +4
              Quote: aleksfill
              everything we see in China
              as in a partner - a mask

              The whole East is such and there is no need to be deceived, on this account. In no case should you be fooled, in the East only the strong are respected.
          3. Alekseev
            Alekseev 19 July 2015 19: 46
            +20
            Quote: Baikonur
            The Chinese, as always, are friends first!

            Yes, there is no need to turn to anyone and no one to turn away absurdly and capriciously!
            Must develop own production and cooperate with countries around the world that honestly want it. And also to strengthen the Army and the Fleet, and the Strategic Missile Forces in the "first place"!
            As for whether China gives it or not, I advise you to remember that the volume of the gas contract alone reaches $ 400 billion, and China gave 25 billion to Gazprom to start building the Power of Siberia.
            Our banks, on the other hand, need to give up the destructive habit of lending in dollars and euros abroad, and then refinance and spread speculation, but we must learn to collect profits "for a pretty penny" by lending to the real sector.
            1. avia1991
              avia1991 19 July 2015 20: 17
              +9
              Quote: Alekseev
              it is necessary to learn to collect profit "for a pretty penny" by lending to the real sector.

              Oooo, where you got it! .. laughing We are not in the USSR, dear - here banks do not need "kopecks", give them MEAT!
              What is one Gref's "sitting" in Ukraine, with the issuance of loans - going, by the way, to the same "ATO"!
            2. aksakal
              aksakal 19 July 2015 23: 27
              +2
              Quote: Alekseev
              Our banks, on the other hand, need to give up the destructive habit of lending in dollars and euros abroad, and then refinance and spread speculation, but we must learn to collect profits "for a pretty penny" by lending to the real sector.
              You’re talking, good But no one took it seriously, and here you need a carrot and stick - and, since the banks turn the big grandmas, then the carrot and stick should be more abrupt than ordinary people. If the whip - then surely the yeah to the far north, if the carrot - alas, reward lemons ... Anyway, anyway, you need to cover up speculations for banks, banks were not invented for this at all, but for lending real sector. The real sector, developing on its own headstock, and on average with a profitability of 10-15% would develop for a long time, but if on credit, then everything happens much faster. So, for this, they came up with banks. It's time to return the banks to what they were created for, or let them die to hell. Financial speculation is like malignant degeneration of cells, like cancer, because the consequences are almost the same! As cancer cells begin to kill the body, so banks, switching to speculation, and any - currency, stocks and others, begin to kill the real sector. And the treatment in both cases is similar - there to burn cancer cells with chemotherapy, here - only as the great Stalin taught.
              1. bayard
                bayard 20 July 2015 02: 13
                +1
                Quote: aksakal
                as the great Stalin taught.

                In a similar situation, Comrade Stalin carried out the therapy of "tightening the screws", because the state mechanism is lax. "Cadres decide everything", cadres need to be changed - they are like bolts with the wrong thread - first replace, then tighten ... and control.
            3. opus
              opus 20 July 2015 02: 11
              +4
              Quote: Alekseev
              Our banks need to give up the destructive habit of lending in dollars and euros abroad,

              1,75-3% is placed by the Central Bank (MinFin) there. in currencies / paper class "A"
              Our banks take from pension funds (for example, there are others) at 5-7%, for PFs of Western countries this is super profit

              The US Federal Open Market Committee, following a meeting in mid-March, decided to maintain the base interest rate at 0-0,25% per annum.

              Swiss National Bank (NBS) introduces negative rates on deposits at the level of 0,25% in order to protect their economy. if recounted-Dynamics of the currency pair EUR / CHF

              our vtyuhivayut (the same mortgage) at 17% per annum.
              Ryk? yes, but super profit, and then, did not work out, we will recoup on legal entities (ALL (!) banks have raised the "old" rates for yul up to 25-29%)
              Banks are not in the loser, the current groaning-CB and Nagibulin dryuchut ...
              1. OLGRIN
                OLGRIN 21 July 2015 05: 53
                0
                Here, this is the essence of our bitch bank offices. And they are also surprised at interviews: "You have no respect for our bank?" No, b ... I really respect scammers and privatizers. This existing banking system is a parasite, they do not produce anything, they do not allow anything to develop. That is why they are not respected for ... in the West, especially in China.
                Small Business Assistance Program - 25% per annum. Doesn't the American aid in preference resemble?
          4. 1goose3
            1goose3 19 July 2015 21: 37
            0
            I, too, in the place of Putin

            No, of course ..., yes of course .... Damn, I got confused, but you can’t refuse toughness laughing
          5. iliitchitch
            iliitchitch 19 July 2015 23: 36
            +4
            Quote: Baikonur
            The Chinese, as always, are friends first! And then - Everything can be! I too, on Putin’s place, were friends with suspicion and caution! Moreover, there are many examples of history!


            What examples? Well, why, did the Chinese ever cut us with knives? And don't pedal me about Damansky. The sideboards got out from under the baseboards ... As a child, my grandmother told me: "Don't be awful = you will be happy." You have to be adults already. Without the Chinese, we will not master the Galaxy and will not put things in order on the planet.
        2. Vasek Trubachev
          Vasek Trubachev 19 July 2015 15: 26
          +24
          Yes, and the island Damansky donated by the drunkard Yeltsin to China, is also remembered. Nobody is forgotten and nothing is forgotten.
          1. clidon
            clidon 19 July 2015 16: 58
            +6
            Yes, and Damansky Island donated by a drunkard Yeltsin to China, is also remembered.

            Damansky was handed over to China under the allied government. Under Yeltsin and Putin, they gave away territories that were not "settled" in 1991.
          2. bastard
            bastard 19 July 2015 17: 02
            -2
            Quote: Vasyok Trubachev
            Yes, and the island Damansky donated by the drunkard Yeltsin to China, is also remembered. Nobody is forgotten and nothing is forgotten.

            Elena Masyuk has a very interesting 4-episode film "The Hieroglyph of Friendship" in 2004. Who is not lazy can look. In the 1st episode just about Damansky. And in general, a very vivid mini-series showing who we are and who they are.
            Now the film is ordered to be put on the shelf.
            1. Oprychnik
              Oprychnik 19 July 2015 18: 15
              +11
              Helen Masyuk not yet strangled ??? I remember how she, during the terrorist attack in Budenovsk, lamented in Novaya Gazeta how our people were, referring to Chechen terrorists.
              They were familiar to her all. Tsuka ...
              1. Oprychnik
                Oprychnik 19 July 2015 18: 53
                +3
                After the little article, Masyuk, I stopped buying Novaya Gazeta ... Burn the editorial office, this is the smallest ...
              2. bastard
                bastard 19 July 2015 19: 03
                +1
                Quote: Oprychnik
                Helen Masyuk not yet strangled ???

                She is a journal. What they order, it sculpts. They will say in pink describe - describe, and vice versa. Free journalists are a myth.
                1. Oprychnik
                  Oprychnik 19 July 2015 19: 14
                  +2
                  I answer you. Considering the absolute absence of this ... Hmmm ... "Specialists" of any moral obstacles, one should not cite her as an example to at least someone, by the way, in Chechnya she was held as a hostage for a long time, and she fled running from there, and now she doesn't show her nose there. That's why I'm surprised that she is still alive ... Don't remember her. Otherwise it will not last long.)))
                  1. bastard
                    bastard 21 July 2015 15: 10
                    0
                    Quote: Oprychnik
                    I answer you. Given the absolute absence of this ... Hmm ... "Specialists" of any moral obstacles, you should not give her as an example to at least someone, incidentally

                    Thanks for your feedback. This is exactly what I meant. The surname is given not as an example, but in order to show that a professional journalist can make any ("good" - "bad") film or report for anyone, just to be in a "trend", well, money with glory, of course. As for morality: a journalist with morality is a person almost unknown to anyone, it is enough to watch TV or read ANY (well, almost) press. Or do you think that Karaulov, Kiselev, Solovyov, Malakhov, etc. are decent people? I don’t believe in miracles for a long time. All of them are scoundrels put by the authorities to distract our attention from real problems. Alas, I think so. My regards. hi
          3. ty60
            ty60 19 July 2015 22: 21
            0
            After all, this red-bound book is much stronger than Faust Goethe! Yuz Aleshkovsky. How many books you don’t read, you won’t become emperor anyway. Mao Tse Dong. From this very book ...
          4. zyablik.olga
            zyablik.olga 20 July 2015 09: 26
            +4
            Quote: Vasyok Trubachev
            Yes, and the island Damansky donated by the drunkard Yeltsin to China, is also remembered. Nobody is forgotten and nothing is forgotten.

            Why do not you remember who gave 2008 year of China about. Sluts and half of the Big Ussuri?
        3. hrych
          hrych 19 July 2015 15: 38
          +10
          If this route is continued further, it is possible that Orenburg will have the border with China, and Kazakhstan, although it will make a profit, will lose its independence and, in addition to Chinese tablets, Kazakhs will find themselves with Mao's quotes and the fate of the Uighurs. The GDP offered its own routes for Chinese goods: the Transsib and Bam, plus our road, and the Northern Sea Route, so transit and profit from it will be exclusively ours. We have our own interest here, plus these roads have already been built, funds have been invested, and here we need to create an infrastructure for someone. Plus our "Silk Way" is being developed by our D.Vostok.
          1. marshes
            marshes 19 July 2015 18: 22
            +2
            Quote: hrych
            and Kazakhstan, although it will make a profit, will lose its independence and besides Chinese tablets, the Kazakhs will be with quotes by Mao and the fate of the Uyghurs.

            It’s strange, like, in 1910 there were about 100 thousand Kazakhs in China, now 1.5 million.
            Increase well roughly 10 times.
            When RI, Kazakhs there were more than 3 lemons; if you multiply by ten, then there should be almost 30 lyam, but now 11 lyam.
            "you scratch turnips." smile
            1. hrych
              hrych 19 July 2015 18: 45
              +3
              Let us turn to the original source:
              According to Chinese sources, 1937 people lived in Xinjiang in 1943-4, of which 360 were Kazakhs, but by 020, according to the 930-1953 All-China Census, this number dropped to 1953 (a decrease of 1954% )
              According to the official census of 2000, the number of Kazakhs in China amounted to 1250 thousand people, and in 2010 the number of Kazakhs reached 1 people.

              https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Казахи_в_Китае
              From 1943 to 53 (over 10 years), the Chinese killed 500 thousand Kazakhs.
              Now scratch your turnips drinks
              1. marshes
                marshes 19 July 2015 19: 04
                +2
                Quote: hrych
                Now scratch your turnips

                And what to scratch, there were really Kazakhs under 100 thousand in 1910, then you describe the 1930s, when the Kazakhs fleeing from hunger went to China.
                Quote: hrych
                of which 930 thousand were Kazakhs,

                This was already in 1937, followed by uprisings almost up to the XUAR branch, the Soviets helped actively, but before the MAO regime.
                Quote: hrych
                In 1953, according to the data of the All-China Census of 1953-1954, this number decreased to 421 thousand people (a decrease of 45%).

                Half returned to the USSR, the other half left for Mongolia.
                Quote: hrych
                From 1943 to 53 (over 10 years), the Chinese killed 500 thousand Kazakhs.

                They ripped off, as you put it, from the strength of 10-20 thousand Kazakhs. During the Ospan-Batyr uprising, by the way the Uyghurs also participated, the White Cossacks ... But the Uyghurs were not very active, so the Chinese were crushing them. smile
                1. hrych
                  hrych 19 July 2015 19: 16
                  +2
                  Let us turn to the original source:
                  In the 1930s, there were about 800 thousand Kazakhs in East Turkestan, of which by the 1950s as a result uprisings and subsequent exodus Kazakhs to India killed about 100 thousand
                  Get hurt in short.
                  Okay, this is the lyrics, because of the law "One family - one child", in the PRC single young men never have the opportunity to have a woman more than the entire CA in full force, but there is a way out - expansion, the Russian Federation is stronger, India is forces are almost equal, Vietnam is invincible, but in the SA it is simpler and in general the times of small principalities end in such a way that you keep your ears on the top of your head and only stupidly stick out from under the Russian umbrella, once you ate ...
                  1. marshes
                    marshes 19 July 2015 19: 24
                    +2
                    Quote: hrych
                    Okay, this is the lyrics, because of the law "One family - one child", in the PRC

                    It does not apply to "small" peoples. It is they who restrict the Han people.
                    Quote: hrych
                    RF is stronger

                    DV, you have under the border 300 lyamov cuffs. smile
                    Quote: hrych
                    but in the CA it’s simpler, so keep your ears on top of your head and only by stupidity will you pop out from under the Russian umbrella, just eat ...

                    Another 20 years of such weather and there will be no water in the CA and where there is a lot of water ... laughing
                    In the XUAR, there are huge problems with water, here they are OR and Irtysh turn to themselves.
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 19 July 2015 19: 38
                      +2
                      300 lyam - a lot of burning meat, though the whole Ext. Mangolia is only 24 lemas,
                      Let us turn to the original source:
                      North and West of China are sparsely populated: 5 provinces of the north and west occupy 55% of the country's area, but only 5,7% of the population live in them
                      http://infokitai.com/naselenie-kitaya.html
                      The Far East of Russia is not a separate country, like the Republic of Kazakhstan, but part of one and a half hundred million Russia, with one of the strongest on the Earth and a well-equipped millionth army, with hundreds of strategic missiles with more than a thousand warheads, and even more tactical systems and up to 5 thousand tactical nuclear charges to them. So, that Irtysh is a shish.
                      1. marshes
                        marshes 19 July 2015 19: 43
                        +2
                        Quote: hrych
                        with one of the strongest on Earth and equipped with a millionth army with hundreds of strategic missiles with more than a thousand AP, and even more tactical systems and up to 5 thousand tactical nuclear charges to them. So that Irtysh is a shish.

                        In ten years we’ll talk ... smile
        4. Russophile
          Russophile 19 July 2015 16: 55
          +3
          Very accurately said. One can also recall how the arms of GDP were turned upside down at the price of gas. So you want to have a direct track in Europe - money for a barrel
          1. samuil60
            samuil60 19 July 2015 23: 30
            0
            That's it. It seems that BB feels well the desire of the Chinese to sit on two chairs: seemingly cooperate with Russia, but at the same time, not particularly spoil relations with the Americans (China has 4 trillion dollars in its hands). So, perhaps, the "slowness" of the Orenburg officials is directed from Moscow - the Chinese and Kazakhs have invested money, the claw is stuck, now it is possible to pull the time. And bargain on various issues with those and others.
        5. Alexander_
          Alexander_ 19 July 2015 18: 40
          +2
          To build on its territory, from its raw materials, by its staff, why do foreign loans?
        6. mervino2007
          mervino2007 19 July 2015 18: 59
          +1
          Quote: Vasyok Trubachev
          According to media reports, Chinese banks, just like European ones, do not give long-term loans in Russia, it is not profitable for the Chinese! "Friendship is friendship", but they will only do what is good for them!

          How can we determine our benefit in the construction of a motorway? Where to get money for construction "for the Chinese"? They will then benefit from increased exports, and we? Can I take a fee from the Chinese? Author, ay!
        7. Asadullah
          Asadullah 19 July 2015 23: 21
          +2
          Chinese banks, like European banks, do not give long-term loans in Russia,


          Have you asked? In China, there is one bank, CB, credit policy depends on it, no matter what units have credit relations. Another question is that the interest rate will not suit everyone. For the rest, I do not understand the reason for the panic, and the name is strange, a 360-degree turn, this is not a turn, but a turn. Only there is an agreement on strategic cooperation between the Russian and Chinese railways, work is ongoing without U-turns. The project of the Russian-Chinese wide-body long-range aircraft is also developing. The construction of a bridge across the Amur River has begun. On the website of any ministry you will find a bunch of agreements with the PRC, not to mention working contracts with CNPC. 6 contracts for the construction of huge modern cement plants in the European part of Russia. And commercial branches of Chinabank provided loans to Megafon, VTB, VEB, and Rosselkhozbank, not to mention a 25 billion swap. And the road Moscow - Kazan? Yes, too lazy to list everything. It seems that Aunt Khaya voiced in the kitchen, picked up the whole porch, it turned out the pigeons were shitting on the balcony .... ay-yy-yay.
        8. opus
          opus 20 July 2015 02: 01
          0
          Quote: Vasyok Trubachev
          According to media reports, Chinese banks, as well as European banks, do not give long-term loans in Russia

          Not true. GIVE.
          Problem: they don’t give in rubles. They give in dollars sga (for which they themselves are like candy wrappers).
          Ours do not charge (although the rate, including insurance, up to 7-8% / year).
          They are awake. and if the dollar is 100?
          In rubles, the issue has not yet been resolved
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Silkway0026
      Silkway0026 19 July 2015 15: 22
      +48
      Spread 360 degrees. Why we do not stack with China


      Did the author mean something completely abstruse, or is there a mess in my head? A U-turn from West to East is actually 180 degrees.
      And 360 - you will appear in the same place where you were.
      1. lelikas
        lelikas 19 July 2015 16: 03
        0
        And if you read the "Orsk Chronicle" - then the Chinese have already occupied them.
      2. Mih
        Mih 19 July 2015 16: 35
        +3
        And 360 - you will find yourself where you were. Definitely! Euclid's geometry, yes, but maybe this is a "literary" meta-taaphor.
      3. Revolver
        Revolver 19 July 2015 17: 34
        -2
        Quote: Silkway0026
        Did the author mean something completely abstruse, or is there a mess in my head? A U-turn from West to East is actually 180 degrees.
        А 360 - you will find yourself in the same place where you were.
        It was precisely this that he had in mind that some were spinning in place and could not decide. And it’s good that way. If you really face the Chinese, you can get Mao’s quote-book (as depicted in one of the comments above) for rigorous memorization.
        Yes, from the opposite side, too, to rake, because it is possible to be friends with China only and exclusively against the West, and in this case the West will take retaliatory measures.
      4. The comment was deleted.
    4. armageddon
      armageddon 19 July 2015 15: 44
      +9
      Hmm ... The problem is where the Russian nouveau riche people save their money ... I think you don’t need to say where ... So soft sabotage is coming up, so to speak ... Nothing ... The president has directly said that they are tormented to receive their contributions ... Let's wait ... God marks the huck !!!
      1. zennon
        zennon 19 July 2015 16: 00
        0
        Quote: Armagedon
        Hmm ... The problem is where the Russian nouveaux riches keep their money ... It seems that you don’t need to say where ...

        Well, why? It would be interesting to know. I had a chance to see two and even speak, but I don’t know anything about their money ...
      2. kil 31
        kil 31 19 July 2015 17: 52
        +1
        Quote: Armagedon
        Hmm ... The problem is where the Russian nouveau riche people save their money ... I think you don’t need to say where ... So soft sabotage is coming up, so to speak ... Nothing ... The president has directly said that they are tormented to receive their contributions ... Let's wait ... God marks the huck !!!

        They will receive it, this is done easily, you take another citizenship and voila all the doors open.
    5. Cams
      Cams 19 July 2015 16: 33
      +3
      I hesitate to ask ....
      Who is the author?
      Does he own some kind of info from the Kremlin?
      How does he know that we are only thinking about the continuation of the road?
      No kidding.
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 19 July 2015 16: 56
        +9
        Quote: KAMLS
        I hesitate to ask ....
        Who is the author?

        No kidding.

        "Here I have an acquaintance - also a scientist - he has 3 classes of education ... And he will draw an article ... in half an hour so will draw - read it!"
        1. sap
          sap 19 July 2015 23: 11
          0
          Can't you tell from real?
      2. veksha50
        veksha50 19 July 2015 17: 11
        0
        Quote: KAMLS
        How does he know that we are only thinking about the continuation of the road?
        No kidding.



        You would read the articles of this Eugene Super, make a conclusion ...

        I personally treat him with great caution ... to put it mildly ...
        1. ferdiperdozzz
          ferdiperdozzz 19 July 2015 18: 42
          +7
          Oh yes, the article is definitely a minus, the scarecrows about "they have children and money in Europe" are already bored. That everyone is obsessed with this Europe? I was there, many times, I saw how people live. A tourist - yes, hurt yourself, I do not argue, and even then not everywhere.
          And as for the "European-quality repair", "Euro-lining" and "Euro-lining" - so that is complete nonsense, in the 90s it was clear something that we were striving for, because there were no cars or sausages. It's funny now. If the board is evenly planed, it becomes "Euroboard". If the window does not need to be covered with paper for the winter, it has become not just a "normal window", it has become a "euro window".
          However, I was distracted.
          Everyone writes about the Chinese (except for the inhabitants of the Far East) that in this very Far East the Chinese are like dirt. Only there are more of them in the same USA at times than in the Far East. What to do then - if there are one and a half billion - there will be a lot of them everywhere, purely mathematically. I must say that the Chinese do not interfere with the residents of the Far East. And the shouting most of all that "the Ketays have conquered us! Guard" are citizens of countries like Lithuania, which is unable to digest 700 refugees from Africa.

          Sorry for the confusion, I'm not completely sober at the moment :)
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. siberalt
      siberalt 19 July 2015 16: 41
      +1
      Yeah. First, your train given to private ownership and the rails from the disassembled sections went to China. And now the highway itself to the Chinese. If according to the classics, then without mail, telegraph, bank and train station - there is no state sovereignty. So, what of this remains state?
      1. Cams
        Cams 19 July 2015 18: 09
        +1
        Dismantled the rails by order from the Kremlin? And sold too?
        Or maybe they were ordinary criminals who, though slowly but surely, are being cleaned up after the 90s?
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. siberalt
          siberalt 19 July 2015 20: 19
          +1
          There was a minister Aksenenko under Yeltsin. And who ordered whom is not known to us. Hundreds of kilometers of railways and sections of roads along with power lines were dismantled along Altai alone.
    8. sssla
      sssla 19 July 2015 18: 31
      +1
      Quote: ilya_oz
      Our bureaucrats can only stir up work in the fresh air with a shovel or ax.

      Especially real GUSS officials
      1. Dilshat
        Dilshat 19 July 2015 22: 23
        0
        At least 2 Gus officials go to VO. laughing
    9. Robert49
      Robert49 19 July 2015 19: 32
      0
      And beyond the Arctic Circle!
    10. olegst
      olegst 19 July 2015 21: 02
      0
      ... our liberals are crowding into Europe, although Russia needs it only as a raw materials appendage. But liberals are quite happy with this, since there is nothing more liberal in the world than selling a national treasure to a podshevka ...
    11. gav6757
      gav6757 20 July 2015 00: 05
      +1
      Only our grandfather Stalin, or someone with his character, can budge our bureaucrats!
      And, you need to change the top officials shaking their pockets for business executives and statesmen.
      It is a pity that we are only shouting about the lack of personnel in management, but no attempts are made to introduce "new blood"!
      But, before the authorities allow various corrupt Gaidars! And for some reason no one asks who is behind her, who allocated state grants to the Maria Gaidar Foundation, etc.
      Ah, I would have to ask !!!
  2. apro
    apro 19 July 2015 14: 49
    +7
    Why doesn’t add up? So the PRC has sovereignty and the Russian Federation is very limited, we switched places at first we were the older brothers for them now. Moreover, the PRC's national economy is still more powerful and more opportunities, Russia can only claim second roles, Moscow does not like but what will you do.
    1. hrych
      hrych 19 July 2015 15: 45
      +5
      They have never been and will never be our "elder brothers". Are we Maoists? There is trade, but there is no diktat and cannot be. We were "elder brothers" because saved them from the Japanese, imposed on them their own Marxist-Leninist system, in their own image and likeness, taught them, built their economics and to a stupid crumb simply controlled their domestic and foreign policy. At least for a gram if there is something like that in relation to us, I agree. There are no secondary roles, in the UN Security Council we constantly impose a vetto, these only shyly abstain, so who is on the sidelines here?
      1. apro
        apro 19 July 2015 16: 08
        0
        I understand your objections to Khrych, but Maoism is Stalinism with a Chinese bias. Trade is good, but one of the ways of war and imposing one’s will, who has more opportunities, wins. We became older only because the Chinese Communists themselves accepted our ideas and wanted them we imposed them in China, we imposed them in other places and we know what happened. Politics is the art of the possible and the PRC is unprepared for an equal confrontation with the West, therefore they behave cautiously at the UN and are aggressive in the national economy and international trade. gives the SGA did not want to spit on the UN, we strongly defended Yugoslavia Libya Iraq Syria?
        1. hrych
          hrych 19 July 2015 16: 12
          +1
          So why are they "older brothers" to us? Lenin opened their eyes to them, and even then a little.
          1. apro
            apro 19 July 2015 16: 23
            0
            They have enough eyes open to see who is in front of them. Lenin opened their eyes to them and still do not close and we have slammed shut to see. Older brothers because they have something to learn, they have results in worse conditions.
            1. hrych
              hrych 19 July 2015 16: 39
              +6
              So go and learn from them what you want, more than a billion beggars, people completely deprived of social security, with stupid quotes from the crazy Mao, you can remember our oligarchs, but there is the family clan of the petty Deng - both party members and billionaires, apparently Lenin has read a lot. There are several hundred billions of internal gaster, working 12-18 hours a day, and they also pull a net between floors to catch suicides. There is also such a gorgeous law, one child per family, but since there is no social network, then both elderly parents sit on the child's neck, of course guys are needed here, here girls in the village are drowned in a ditch. And now under a hundred million young men will never be able to find a woman. Learn ahead, but remember that from such work and such a life, you would get out the balls, like Schwarzenegger's in "Total Recall". And they also have Shaolin acrobatic monks there, only in stupid films about them one nuance is missed, there the brethren have solid sodomy.
              1. apro
                apro 19 July 2015 16: 54
                +1
                Dear Khrych you suffered, it’s not beautiful, I live near China once even visited, arriving in Blagoveshchensk in Soviet times, dirty shacks were visible through the river, now skyscrapers and shopping centers, local cars run like bmt or tarot or aui. I worked near I can roughly imagine how the Chinese work and how they earn, but in some places they have 18 centuries, but everything is changing rapidly, I won’t see you at the expense of sodomy. You are very savvy in this matter.
                1. hrych
                  hrych 19 July 2015 17: 07
                  +2
                  Oleg, do not take your backward Maoists into brothers, let alone older ones, okay, for the past hundreds of years, including 70 years of Bolshevism, we have been forced to worship the West, their culture and ideology, the result is that we have only riddled trouble. Now we still didn’t have enough to focus on these, which are 50-60 years behind us in science and technology (I beg you, just don’t give counterfeit gadgets as an example).
                  1. apro
                    apro 19 July 2015 17: 33
                    -1
                    Learning to survive is a vital necessity and it is advisable to learn from the strong with those who are smarter and with whom they succeed, the PRC is not the worst example. The older brother is a figurative expression, China is certainly a separate civilization
                    and we don’t have much in common with them, but they are not backward. Hrych, you're talking about imposing Western values ​​that brought Russia only troubles, I think that this is fundamentally wrong, Russia is nevertheless closer to European civilization and all the best that we took there helped Russia needs to increase its potential, because we have, by and large, a European education system of health and science, art, if it isn’t okay, a social system. Russia is a European state with great potential and is able to integrate Europe into itself. The problem is that Europe is now practically an occupation zone SGA and the Americans are bombing Europe worse than the barbarians and no one is waiting for us there and there will be no cooperation, and the only option is the PRC.
                    1. hrych
                      hrych 19 July 2015 18: 02
                      +7
                      It just so happened that I am very familiar with the history of this territory. Until the last emperor PuI, (and this is already the 20th century) for thousands of years she was ruled by the Jurchen, the Syanbi (Genghisides), then the Manchurians (descendants of the first). When they start talking about the antiquity of this civilization, they don’t know that Chinese statehood is only less than 100 years old, i.e. since 1924 (overthrow of PuI). All these hundreds of years, the main - the Han population were hereditary slaves, and it is not surprising that they endure Maoist slavery - genetics. Immediately, the Chinese were defeated by the Kwantungs, but then we gifted them with Uyghuria and Manchuria, they captured Tibet themselves, but there was no one to defend this wasteland, then climbed to Vietnam and India, but we got worthy of the horns, including us ... So this Chinese statehood is sheer stupidity, then a cultural revolution, then gathering pans for scrap, an epic battle with sparrows, then the Gang of Four, when Baba Mao wanted to seize power, and Dan, who sold his people - a billion to slavery to a golden billion, They have invested 60 years of hard work, of course, in Amersky securities, which are inconvenient to use even in the toilet. And of course, constant hunger (except in recent years it was not, however, an agricultural country, but it depends on food imports), and the victims of these experiments are calculated in the 20th century ... well, we don’t have so many people in Russia. Yes, it’s worth admitting that they are building a fleet, building cities, but they are covered by a crisis, but it will be terrible.
                      1. apro
                        apro 19 July 2015 18: 26
                        -1
                        Hrych, I’m also interested in the history of China, once even concluded for myself that the territory north of the Great Wall of China is of Hordian origin and Russia’s claim to machzhuria was quite justified. and if this can be overcome by humane methods, then whoever God will do, so that the repressions of the Communists are justified. Den did what IVS Stalin did, agreed with Western bankers on technical cooperation and on their terms there were no other options, the result is important and it is. Khrych does not need to consider others stupider poorer than himself, preferably without emotion. China is not a friend and not an enemy, we have a common enemy with them, and if Russia really wants to defeat the amers, the PRC is likely to support this initiative, but does Russia want it?
                      2. demo
                        demo 31 July 2015 21: 24
                        0
                        For example.
                        Life brought me to one Chinese.
                        His name is Ten Weiza (Victor) in Russian.
                        His mother is Russian, and his father is Chinese.
                        In the 30's, during the dawn of Soviet-Chinese relations, his father, among several tens of thousands of Chinese, was sent to the USSR to study at a higher military institution.
                        He was to become a pilot.
                        And here, by the time the college graduated, the 1941 war of the year.
                        He, a lieutenant, is recorded as a volunteer.
                        He went through the whole war.
                        By the end he was a colonel, with an iconostasis of orders and medals.
                        He became a member of the CPSU (b). To the fact that he was a member of the party of China.
                        And in Chelyabinsk, where there was a school, he had a son.
                        In this case, the son was born in an officially registered marriage.
                        For further service he was sent again to Chelyabinsk,
                        Where he became the head of the aviation school.
                        In 1949, Mao came to his senses and asked Stalin to return those who survived back to China.
                        Little remains - 2-3 thousands.
                        The rest gave their lives, and for you and me.
                        Father was called to the head of the garrison and offered a choice - you want to go home, go, you want to stay stay.
                        His father decided to leave, because he had both parents and sisters and brothers left there.
                        Returning, he joined in the work on the creation and formation of the Chinese Air Force.
                        And he succeeded enough in that.
                        He resigned as lieutenant general.
                        They buried him not cremating, but in the ground, not like now - a pot of relatives.
                        His name is listed in the book of memory of the Chinese people.
                        So.
                        We sat once and drank mentally.
                        Toward the end of the second softened Victor and said an interesting thing.
                        I, for Chinese, says, not Chinese, but for Russians I am not Russian.
                        I am a half-breed.
                        And the attitude towards me is the same.
                        And this is despite the merits of his father. And despite the fact that he speaks excellent Russian, French, English, and, accordingly, Chinese.
                        And has two higher educations.
                        Etc.

                        It reminds me of the situation with Russia.
                        For Europeans we are Asians, and for Asians we are Europeans.
                        And who are we really?
                        The country is huge.
                        What do residents of Vladivostok feel like?
                        What about Kaliningrad?

                        And to be honest, the article was about how we, Russia, can’t decide how to be friends and fight.
                        But the Chinese do not discuss what they are.
                        We have little knowledge about China.
                        Therefore, the judgments will be one-sided and not true.

                        As you can see, the Chinese are different.
                        I met others.
                        But more about that another time.
      2. MstislavHrabr
        MstislavHrabr 20 July 2015 18: 38
        0
        I wouldn’t lead the road from Orenburg through Kazan to Peter, but through Tambov, Voronezh, Lipetsk, Oryol to Mogilev and Minsk. Through the center of Russia but bypassing Moscow ... So Europe is shorter, cheaper and much more useful would...
      3. demo
        demo 31 July 2015 19: 34
        0
        In order to argue in such a peremptory way, one must have an idea of ​​both Marxism-Leninism and Maoism.
        Without going into details, the main contradiction arises between them.
        M.L. declares internationalism, and Maoism nationalism.
        And then judge for yourself.
  3. fridge
    fridge 19 July 2015 14: 49
    +20
    360 degrees is a turn, not a turn. lol 180 degrees is a turn, and 90 degrees is a turn. laughing
    1. An60
      An60 19 July 2015 14: 57
      +5
      The super-author of the article rotates in a serious way ... by 540 *.
    2. Kibalchish
      Kibalchish 19 July 2015 15: 02
      +5
      So I thought about the same thing when I saw it. The author lives in reality with an alternative amount of dimensions wassat
  4. Basarev
    Basarev 19 July 2015 14: 52
    +12
    And in a good way, both the West and China should be sewn. Only friends with Russia should be friends.
    1. SteelRatTV
      SteelRatTV 19 July 2015 16: 07
      +4
      Do not forget what is meant by "Northern Territories" in China. Therefore, do not rush headlong into the Chinese "gentle" embrace.
      1. mr.Man
        mr.Man 19 July 2015 16: 30
        +2
        Quote: SteelRatTV
        Do not forget what is meant by "Northern Territories" in China

        Well, someone thinks about the Russian Empire with the territories of Finland, Poland, the Caucasus and Central Asia ... Kazakhs and Uzbeks think about those Kazakhs and Uzbeks who live in northeastern China ... We have been good neighbors for hundreds of years and have been swearing at home, but it’s better to live with a neighbor soul to soul, and not with a neighbor across the road (that is, okIan), who don’t care about your apartment-house ...
        1. marshes
          marshes 19 July 2015 18: 39
          0
          Quote: mr.Man
          Kazakhs and Uzbeks think about those Kazakhs and Uzbeks who live in northeast China ...

          There are Kazakhs and Uighurs, Uzbeks, well, maybe there is some amount.
      2. Cams
        Cams 19 July 2015 16: 35
        0
        The northern territories are in Japan ..
        Are you a co-author?
        1. Kasym
          Kasym 20 July 2015 18: 52
          -1
          Basarev. How to raise the economy without trade? Generally speaking, why doesn't GDP cut off trade with the West (press down on gas, etc.)? This is not possible, we must strive for all neighbors to be rich countries, not beggars. What to take from the poor - no trade, no development of border regions, only problems. The PRC is not a poor country. On the contrary, they worked up fat that they are ready to finance such a project (AIIB, BRICS bank, development banks - what are they for then). And look: they are trying to "help" all neighbors (not without their own interest, of course) with development loans. Because they understand that a beggar neighbor is worse than a gun.
          In Kazakhstan, besides this road, a whole program has been developed: from Astana in all directions and from Alma-Ata. And it was decided to make Aktobe a millionaire with all the "nishtyaks" (with Shymkent) - I think that in time there will be roads from these cities in all directions. We have fun: the deputies have opened feeders in the form of road construction. hi
          1. Tambov Wolf
            Tambov Wolf 20 July 2015 23: 46
            0
            With rich neighbors but poor people, revolutions turn out. Do we need them? A good ruler primarily takes care of his country, and only then of others. But for us, as always, the opposite is true.
  5. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 19 July 2015 14: 52
    +2
    Spread 360 degrees. Why we do not stack with China
    maybe the author does not add up, reality is another!
  6. cap54
    cap54 19 July 2015 14: 54
    +4
    If 360 degrees, then what is this reversal? This is some kind of rotational movement in one place !!!
    1. mr.Man
      mr.Man 19 July 2015 16: 11
      0
      Well Duc turned away ...
  7. Mikhanchik
    Mikhanchik 19 July 2015 14: 58
    +13
    Everything seems to be fine, life should get better. They are talking about development and import substitution. But all is bad luck. In our city, two out of four plants were closed and sawn for scrap. And the bosses migrated from the plants to those that are still working. How can I change something if the head is rotten sad
  8. Barakuda
    Barakuda 19 July 2015 15: 01
    +2
    Again, again, is it all gone? After a year to return to this article. However, a year ago they wrote similar. And the caravan is coming.
  9. boforss
    boforss 19 July 2015 15: 04
    +10
    What trouble in Orsk still do not speak Chinese wink ... Like any project, there are pluses and minuses, pluses are more likely to be developed in the direction of China so that Russia should think it over wisely.
    1. Barakuda
      Barakuda 19 July 2015 15: 16
      +2
      And why not in Kazakh? It seems to be near, or in vain I got 5 matches in geography. And Russian as it was and will be. Indestructible language. Although you know better what is going on there.
  10. captain
    captain 19 July 2015 15: 10
    +3
    Well, Chubais doesn't want to learn to speak Chinese, what should he do now? Dvorkovich does not want ..., Medvedev does not want. Well, do our "elite" have real estate there?
  11. 1536
    1536 19 July 2015 15: 15
    +2
    What is it. Then one government official declares that “WE don’t need a high-speed railway from Moscow to Kazan”, because no, you see, “there will be no one to travel”, now there is new news. These "nam-nam" are like three little pigs who sit in their houses and laugh at everyone, what good fellows they are. For the time being. This is from a narrow-minded mind, after all, rightly so, I do not want to think that it is by malicious intent for a bribe from Nulland. I wonder if Nazarbayev made a phone call to Russia on an iPhone, or so, on a special call? Although the effect of these requests is one - "0".
  12. The comment was deleted.
  13. gelezo47
    gelezo47 19 July 2015 15: 27
    +5
    Everyone understands that it would be time to turn east. Isn’t our officials in prostration!? After all, the West has long given us to understand, surrender Crimea, Donbass and then they will think. And in the east we have not only China, but also states that strive for close cooperation with Russia ...
    Someone’s soul hurts for the Fatherland, and someone’s for their own savings in the west ... request
  14. Mikhail Ivanovich
    Mikhail Ivanovich 19 July 2015 15: 28
    +2
    "For construction to begin, it is necessary to prove the future performance of the road."
    Any road, and even more so this one, is so necessary for the country. What is there to think? .. Especially in this area.
    What kind of efficiency are we talking about if there are simply no roads.
    I don't quite agree with the previous comment of "1536": "This is from a dim wit .."
    I am sure that from a deep, precisely analytical mind, only a stranger and hostile to our country.
    1. veksha50
      veksha50 19 July 2015 17: 22
      +1
      “Any road, and even more so this one, is so necessary for the country. What is there to think? .. Especially in this area.
      What kind of efficiency are we talking about, if there are simply no roads "...

      I can’t be reproached for cringing in the West, however, when in films you see concrete autobahns passing through the wild deserts of the USA (not to mention the inhabited states), it takes a little envy ...

      We, in Russia, need roads, any and everywhere ... Or do our officials-bureaucrats-domoross-oligarchs want to turn Russian roads from ills into weapons ??? !!! So against whom ???

      So this road - Russia needs no less than Kazakhstan and China ...

      PS True, some may object, saying that we will build a strategic highway for the PRC army ...
  15. dojjdik
    dojjdik 19 July 2015 15: 30
    0
    we need to pull the gas pipeline, this is the case and the "silk" routes, that's how it goes; the whole point of embarrassing us with the Chinese revolves around gas and it's not in the "ways" that
  16. Barakuda
    Barakuda 19 July 2015 15: 39
    +1
    Hell knows. I have a cottage near Tyumen - such as a log house, 20 km from Velizhansky highway. Silence, lake, talk - forester and mosquitoes with woodpeckers. You’ll bring a loaf of bread five and a couple of cigarettes to a forester, and that's fine. No internet. that's just the last 2 years I can’t get there, the dog has probably forgotten already .. And there moose run and wild boars, for the time being.
  17. narval20
    narval20 19 July 2015 15: 44
    0
    Having no real confirmation, crazy article in the style of "fantasy" and "everything is bad"
  18. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 19 July 2015 15: 49
    +5
    I don’t understand, but don’t we need this road? And all kinds of tablets in Chinese do not hang horseradish. Let the toilet look for the dictionary.
    1. hrych
      hrych 19 July 2015 15: 56
      +1
      Absolutely not needed.
      1. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 19 July 2015 16: 58
        +3
        Quote: hrych
        Absolutely not needed.

        And explain why then create BRICS and SCO? For pants support and fogging?
        1. hrych
          hrych 19 July 2015 17: 16
          +1
          Taking advantage of our geographical position, control over gigantic mineral reserves, military power (primarily nuclear missile), create a fairer new world order, primarily in world trade (now the main trade routes, international trade, exchanges, etc. under NATO control, where the unfair redistribution of income stemming from colonialism). We have our transit roads with the Far East, the same path creates competition for us (most of the way past us) and why do we need it?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 19 July 2015 17: 54
            +3
            In this case, we are at an impasse. China sleeps and sees its whole Far East, including Lake Baikal and Sakhalin, as well as some part of Kazakhstan, where it is successfully coping, and our government is spinning on 360 *, looking for horizons from where investments will come.
            1. Mordvin 3
              Mordvin 3 19 July 2015 21: 54
              +2
              In general, in my opinion, ours just want a rollback, but the Chinas do not agree. They have a hole in their head for this business, but we don’t give our own.
          2. The comment was deleted.
  19. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 19 July 2015 15: 50
    +5
    . To the minus author. Not any evidence, just a whining. Yes, and a 360-degree turn - stand still is called. Where you went, there you go.
  20. tasha
    tasha 19 July 2015 15: 50
    +1
    "At the same time, exports from China to Russia decreased by 36,2%, and from Russia to China by 23,9%. Of course, the reason for this was the weakening of the ruble, and the economic problems of the PRC, and the fall in oil prices."

    And, I hope, at least one percent or another the rate of import substitution works. From personal observations - there is progress, including for goods that were previously exported from China. Made in Russia.
    1. siberalt
      siberalt 19 July 2015 20: 54
      0
      To understand more specifically the reasons for the fall in exports, it would be nice to know its structure. If this concerns clothes and household appliances, then this is directly related to the depreciation of the ruble and, as a result, to the purchasing power of the Russians. A couple of months ago I came across some kind of documentary. They showed at once the deserted Chinese border cities, the main sources of income of which were trade with our shuttles and the tourism business.
  21. Alexl
    Alexl 19 July 2015 15: 54
    +6
    And why should Russia constantly adapt to someone? Now under the West, now under China?
  22. pofigisst74
    pofigisst74 19 July 2015 15: 56
    +5
    Another "vsepalschik" IMHO. The road was not built for him ... It will be necessary, they will build it faster than the Kazakhs! For now, let them drive along TransSib. The bridge to the Crimea is more important to us now!
  23. DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 19 July 2015 15: 57
    +2
    Pletuny, with China everything is going well. Yuan is attached to the buck. The bucks have now been artificially made more expensive, and the ruble has fallen to the euro, and even more so to the dollar. Or will you order us to subsidize trade with China at a loss? The fact that the ruble has fallen is very good for our production. I suspect that the play with Greece is in the hands of EU producers, they are scrolling it from time to time. And the United States can only print money.
    1. Tambov Wolf
      Tambov Wolf 20 July 2015 23: 58
      +1
      Good quote from Gref and Nabiullina. Aren't you graduating from HSE with Yasin? Gaidar also liked to tell these fables to us, but God tidied up. Read the story. When is a bad, cheap currency considered the height of grace? Only the liberals have the American style. For some reason, the Americans are not reducing their currency, like they printed a trillion more, but no, they are cutting the ruble the way they want. remained, because Gaidar is good, do not tell me?
      1. Do not be angry
        Do not be angry 21 July 2015 00: 13
        +2
        Quote: Good AAAH
        The fact that the ruble fell is very good for our production.


        That's very good ... especially in theory and lips of management, but in practice in June industrial production dropped by 4.8% compared to June last year.

        Not everything that politicians say is true, but rather the opposite.
  24. zinger
    zinger 19 July 2015 15: 58
    +2
    I need this road more than China. overwhelmed with consumer goods right up to St. Petersburg.
    1. angurow
      angurow 19 July 2015 17: 33
      +2
      already failed
  25. Gor-1974
    Gor-1974 19 July 2015 16: 00
    0
    Perhaps we are building a relationship with China as in that saying, "friends on further, enemies closer" With all due respect to the Chinese people, they may be our most likely enemy in the near future.
    1. NordUral
      NordUral 19 July 2015 16: 16
      +6
      Our not probable, but real enemy, with its concept of a global disarming strike, is the United States. And one must be blind so as not to see this. The current situation is not the state of two powerful powers of the USA and the USSR in the 60-80 years. Now both countries are weakened, but we are slowly, despite all the work of the liberals in power, began to recover, although obviously at an insufficient pace. That the US is slipping into the abyss. Cold war military rivalry overtaxed the world's first economy. And the transfer of production to Asia completed the process of degradation.
      The country is facing many, practically no longer solvable problems. And again, as in Stalin's time, Russia is again the main problem of the United States. Oddly enough for some, but we are the only country in the world that will never go into a subordinate position before whoever it is. And the top of the States understands this, just as they understand that the trick with "perestroika" will not work for us a second time. Therefore, we, and only we, stand on the edge of their blow.
      1. Tambov Wolf
        Tambov Wolf 21 July 2015 00: 06
        +1
        Dear, do you remember how they shouted here that Ukraine would freeze in winter and die of hunger? Soon the second winter, but for now only the militia recedes. The truth is that the scouts are screaming that we don’t have any drain, so maybe the United States ..... So maybe the USA is it too early to bury? Saying a gop without jumping over an obstacle is not good. Our authorities are helping them, so they started buying their bond papers again. You are certainly an optimist, but sometimes healthy pessimism will not hurt.
    2. veksha50
      veksha50 19 July 2015 17: 36
      +2
      Quote: Gor-1974
      With all due respect to the Chinese people, they are perhaps our most likely enemy in the near future.


      By logic. China may become our enemy ...

      However, this requires a lot of things, including time ...

      The PRC can enter into confrontation with the Russian Federation only if Russia wins the fight between the United States and Russia ... And then the struggle for "hegemony" will spill over into our relations ...

      And so now to talk on this topic is not even water, but to crush the air in a mortar ...

      The real enemy for Russia is the USA and their stray gopot ...
  26. Alexl
    Alexl 19 July 2015 16: 00
    +1
    Are there many Russian-language plates in Beijing or Shanghai?
    1. hrych
      hrych 19 July 2015 16: 06
      +6
      .................. Full
      1. veksha50
        veksha50 19 July 2015 17: 37
        0
        Quote: hrych
        ... full



        Excuse me, but "cucumber with ears" - what's this ???
        1. hrych
          hrych 19 July 2015 18: 13
          +1
          Cucumbers, they are strange ...
          1. veksha50
            veksha50 19 July 2015 19: 06
            0
            Quote: hrych
            Cucumbers, they are strange ..



            Mdaaa ... called "Nikerasebe" ...
  27. DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 19 July 2015 16: 03
    +1
    Regarding the Sino-Russian battles, there is a Ziono-American trick to drive a wedge between us. Quietly, the Chinese will still go all over Asia to Israel and restore order with ISIS. 100 Chinese, per ISIS.
  28. NordUral
    NordUral 19 July 2015 16: 06
    +4
    In general, the country still hopes for the lifting of sanctions and the restoration of ties with the West more than for integration with Asia, although time requires from us quite different.

    Namesake, not the country hopes, but this liberal bastard who has permeated all the pores of our power and "economy". They do not need either modernization or development of the country. These bugs are quite satisfied with our country, as a raw material appendage of the developed world.
    But this does not suit us, ordinary citizens of Russia! And it’s time for us to understand that we are faced with the choice of becoming slaves or being free citizens of an independent and industrially developed country.
    And in the elections, namely in the elections, and not in the swamp or Maidan, to force the authorities to do what the people need, and not a miserable bunch of thieving officials and oligarchs.
    It is high time !
  29. volk0773
    volk0773 19 July 2015 16: 21
    0
    It seems like we were on the same level in the mid-80s. AND NOW??? That's all the conclusions.
  30. VoenDok
    VoenDok 19 July 2015 16: 26
    +1
    We are not doing well with China due to the fact that we have opposing interests with China on most issues. And traditionally strained relations since tsarist times, which under Mao almost escalated into a war (and there were separate military clashes both before the Second World War and after). It should be understood that the desire to "make friends with China" is a way to tease amers, but not much more.
  31. afrikanez
    afrikanez 19 July 2015 16: 33
    0
    A bunch of wealthy businessmen draw conclusions on China for the whole nation. Very well angry
  32. 2014ya.ru
    2014ya.ru 19 July 2015 16: 33
    +3
    Some kind of provocative little article.
  33. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 19 July 2015 16: 43
    +2
    It is not a question of love / not love of China, but the question of economic survival.
    In addition to the Chinese, no one will give Russian loans due to sanctions. And they really need
    Silk Road. And Russia - loans.
    The Russian Reserve Fund (at current oil prices) will end in 1.5-2 years.
    Welfare Fund - in another 1-2 years. Money runs out - and all of a sudden.
    And salaries to the workers of the military-industrial complex, pensions will have to be paid.

    Therefore, it is more reasonable not to recall Damansky, etc., but to quickly promote them.
    projects - in exchange for currency.
    1. apro
      apro 19 July 2015 17: 01
      0
      Russia’s warrior does not need loans, it needs a state central bank and an independent imperial policy. Funds are good, but they don’t work for Russia.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 19 July 2015 17: 36
        0
        "Russia does not need loans" ///

        I’ll try to explain. The state central bank - even liberal, even super-patriotic -
        can print only rubles. As many rubles as you like.

        But for all the materials-parts-components-mechanisms-machines that Russia
        buys in the West for his equipment (and this is about 70%) you need to pay only in currency. Otherwise, equipment will not be released from factories.
        Neither for rubles (nor for yuan) will sell anything.
        China has accumulated a huge foreign exchange reserve. Which he can
        Share with a project partner.
        1. apro
          apro 19 July 2015 17: 58
          +2
          To start own industry, we primarily need rubles, and the range of foreign purchases can be reduced, because Russia just recently produced almost everything that is needed for existence and development. China needs raw materials and transportation projects, and there is nothing to object to the rival of fools.
  34. moskowit
    moskowit 19 July 2015 16: 52
    +1
    Quote: Silkway0026
    Spread 360 degrees. Why we do not stack with China


    Did the author mean something completely abstruse, or is there a mess in my head? A U-turn from West to East is actually 180 degrees.
    And 360 - you will appear in the same place where you were.


    The author meant what he said. But the two-stage turn, first at 180 *, was grunted, weighed, hung, then continued and returned to its former state. Ours in Moscow are already very big snobs, that they are Asians, and the Far Eastern and Transbaikal business has only been in China for a quarter of a century ... Invite fellow businessmen or go there, they will certainly tell you a lot of interesting things ...
  35. GraveBezKresta
    GraveBezKresta 19 July 2015 17: 13
    +4
    Actually, there is a betrayal of Russia's national interests. Kitaez already stupidly allowed into our territory, but who will throw them out of there ?! Medvedev, Dvorkovich, Gref, Chubais - is all this liberalistic slime? Which for more than 20 years has been godlessly robbing the riches of Russia. At the same time, they are trending for us that they are effective managers.
    "Deputies do not want to lease the land of the Russian Federation to the Chinese
    Deputies do not want to give Russian land to the Chinese for rent depositphotos.com
    The LDPR faction initiates an appeal by the State Duma with a request to reconsider the decision of the authorities of the Trans-Baikal Territory to transfer 115 thousand hectares of agricultural land for lease to a Chinese company. State Duma Deputy Speaker for the LDPR Igor Lebedev said that the faction considers this an “important geopolitical issue” and, if it is not resolved, “a Chinese will be the governor of Transbaikalia in 20 years”. The head of the region, Konstantin Ilkovsky, announced the signing of a protocol with Chinese partners at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, explaining this by the low demand for land.
    Blog
    Jun 20, 10:59
    According to Kommersant, the reason for the LDPR’s dissatisfaction was "information that the leadership of the Trans-Baikal Territory wants to lease land to some agricultural company." State Duma Vice-Speaker Igor Lebedev fears that “99% of Chinese” will be invited to work there, so a “facilitated border crossing regime” will be introduced. This is one of the least populated areas of the country, so the LDPR wants to solve "this important geopolitical issue."
    The faction initiates an appeal addressed to the Prime Minister Dmitry Medvedev with a request not to allow to conclude an agreement. The minimum plan is the chamber’s protocol order to receive information from the responsible departments about the possible negative consequences of the contract, deputy chairman of the faction Yaroslav Nilov told the publication.
    The reason for concern was the information about the signing of a protocol of intent by the government of the Trans-Baikal Territory on "the implementation of a joint project for the development of agricultural lands. The Chinese partners agreed to register enterprises with tax records at their place of business and to attract local labor resources in the amount of at least 75%, the regional authorities said. We are talking about the lease of 115 thousand hectares of fallow lands and pastures for up to 49 years with investments of about 24 billion rubles. "
    Here is the link: https://realty.rambler.ru/news/deputaty-ne-hotyat-otdavat-zemli-rf-v-arendu-kita

    ycam-2634 /? utm_source = rambler & utm_content = realty & utm_medium = news & utm_campaign = se

    lf_promo
  36. DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 19 July 2015 17: 30
    0
    Quote: NordUral
    Our not probable, but real enemy, with its concept of a global disarming strike, is the United States. And one must be blind so as not to see this.


    And the collective farmers believe everyone, they are just guys. Look in Ukraine, not only the collective farmers fooled, but also urban. They believe in the EU and a brighter future, they believe that China will attack Russia soon, and it was announced to them on television. And think about it?
  37. boforss
    boforss 19 July 2015 17: 48
    +1
    In general, what about the reproaches towards Russia regarding relations with Europe, when the very highway that the author is so worried about goes from China to the same Western Europe through the territory of the Russian Federation? That is, we will not blame China for wanting to cooperate with Europe request .
  38. Signaller
    Signaller 19 July 2015 17: 50
    0
    Until the rooster pecks, the man does not move .. This is sacred. Rap with some kind of "silk road" and, most importantly, for FREE. Well, you give !!!!!. Here the Motherland will say and we will all become the ranks as one. And the Motherland has not yet said "A". So why go across the fire into the fire ?????
  39. The comment was deleted.
    1. norman-70
      norman-70 19 July 2015 18: 08
      +1
      SCO, BRICS is an instrument of China’s influence, but neither like Russia, Ms. there was and will not be any friendship between China and the Russian Federation! Especially against the United States or the West as a whole! In no way can Russia replace the West with China! Russia purposefully turns into a RAW MATERIAL ADDITION of China!
  40. Evgeny Khokhlov
    Evgeny Khokhlov 19 July 2015 17: 54
    +1
    Yes, you already forget about the friendship of peoples and all that! There is only business and nothing personal ....
    1. P2002
      P2002 19 July 2015 18: 18
      0
      Quote: Yevgeny Khokhlov
      Yes, you already forget about the friendship of peoples and all that! There is only business and nothing personal ....

      I still don’t understand where the road will go: in the south of Kazakhstan through the Kyzyl Horde or Akmola Aktyubinsk Orenburg?
      1. Semurg
        Semurg 19 July 2015 19: 17
        +1
        Khorgos-Almaty-shymket-kyzyl-horde-Aktyubinsk-R
        Ф
      2. boforss
        boforss 19 July 2015 19: 25
        0
        Judging by the map, China has grandiose plans. It is planned to take the current federal network of highways Orenburg-Kazan-Cheboksary-Nizhny Novgorod-Vladimir-Moscow-St. Petersburg, and then Europe as the basis for the route from the borders of Kazakhstan to the Russian Federation. So that China wants to "be friends" with Europe in all wink
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. norman-70
    norman-70 19 July 2015 18: 15
    -3
    falling oil prices, ruble collapse, sanctions, almost international isolation, a ban on access to Western finances, technologies, and against this background, the Russian government suddenly decided to get up off its knees ??? Yes, go on, be friends, with China! ??? we look at the trade turnover of China and the USA, China and the EU, and we look at the trade turnover between China and the Russian Federation, and we WILL UNDERSTAND China to each other and partner! and sitting in the convoy of China and from there waving the West with a dirty fist .... ????
    1. hrych
      hrych 19 July 2015 20: 50
      0
      Ruble collapse (far from collapse of course is far away) - a planned action of the Russian government (it’s time to understand), to sharply accelerate import substitution (including for resort holidays, so as not to drag the Turks funds, but to develop Crimea and Sochi). The population suffered, but slightly and practically did not suffer in essential goods, significant damage was inflicted on those wishing to purchase vehicles, but on the scale of the country and the world war (world revolution) - this is nonsense.
  43. NNV
    NNV 19 July 2015 18: 19
    0
    Zadolbali Damansky, that there 27 million Soviet citizens were brutally destroyed, all this was done by the West, led by the Nazis, and that the so-called elite and their accomplices are trying to "make friends" with the murderers of civilians.
  44. DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 19 July 2015 18: 21
    0
    Quote: norman-70
    SCO, BRICS is an instrument of China’s influence, but neither like Russia, Ms. there was and will not be any friendship between China and the Russian Federation! Especially against the United States or the West as a whole! In no way can Russia replace the West with China! Russia purposefully turns into a RAW MATERIAL ADDITION of China!


    I’m not saying how gouging our economy at the end of the USSR and under Yeltsin was, it’s more difficult to restore. Have you given birth to children so that there is no demographic failure? No wonder they want to raise the retirement age. And for this reason, you have to finance with oil money. A lot of pensioners, and there is no one to work, it is not for nothing that migrants plow here.
    That's what I do not agree with, that the market and entrepreneurs will regulate and build everything. It is necessary for the state to build and control not only space. But what is built must be handed out in private hands, for rent with the right to purchase, so that competition is instilled.
  45. reut.sib
    reut.sib 19 July 2015 18: 22
    +2
    Why doesn’t it add up with China? There was nothing in common and I hope it will not! Well, I can’t eat their rubber
    tomatoes and cucumbers - and this I mean only food products, not to mention something else. How is it that there is no one to grow vegetables in Siberia? Chinese greenhouses are everywhere, and nothing will grow in this place. Maybe officials in Orsk are doing right - We don't need this "PLASTIC way"!
  46. imugn
    imugn 19 July 2015 18: 29
    +1
    the percentages of decrease in commodity turnover given in the article are probably caused by the depreciation of the ruble against the dollar. In rubles, these percentages may also be in growth; the article does not say anything about this
  47. marshes
    marshes 19 July 2015 18: 32
    +3
    And the route that goes through Kazakhstan is star-shaped, concrete with asphalt pavement. 140, not a problem, it will be resolved. 200 did, 6 audyuha does not go. smile .
    1. boforss
      boforss 19 July 2015 19: 07
      0
      So their heavy trucks need to move along the "star" roads, they build on credit, not with their own money, with their own equipment and with their workers. Themselves is not with a mustache (sadness).
      1. marshes
        marshes 19 July 2015 19: 17
        +1
        Quote: boforss
        So their heavy trucks need to move along the "star" roads, they build on credit, not with their own money, with their own equipment and with their workers. Themselves is not with a mustache (sadness).

        So the road will be paid. smile We already have an example of a toll road, Astana-Borovoe is still a bit and it will pay off. smile
        And so they build ours, there are few foreigners, there are divided into sections, the Chinese are not visible, but in principle not large sections have already been built. They say that the Germans conduct laboratory tests.
        1. Semurg
          Semurg 19 July 2015 19: 30
          +1
          There are Azerbaijani companies. He talked with one, he says concrete from Baku to Tbilisi and then to Turkey will be, this is probably an understudy if the Russian Federation refuses the project.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. boforss
            boforss 19 July 2015 19: 44
            0
            They want to stretch a railway line to Turkey, through the countries of Central Asia, then Iran, Turkey and the European Union, the so-called "Silk Road". But it’s not so big yet. If it does not work out with a piece of iron, then yes, the highway remains.
            1. marshes
              marshes 19 July 2015 19: 51
              0
              Quote: boforss
              They want to stretch a railway line to Turkey, through the countries of Central Asia, then Iran, Turkey and the European Union, the so-called "Silk Road". But it’s not so big yet. If it does not work out with a piece of iron, then yes, the highway remains.

              She already is smile Ours laid through Turkmenistan to Iran, then they themselves.
              In general, they are in Duisburg, or else there ... "paths" must come. smile
        2. boforss
          boforss 19 July 2015 19: 30
          +1
          So you’re more fortunate with people in power, they’re thinking about the benefits for the country rather than for their personal pockets, this is evidently the situation in Kyrgyzstan. crying
          1. Semurg
            Semurg 19 July 2015 19: 44
            +2
            officials in the CIS are absolutely the same everywhere. RK is a richer country than yours and the RF is even richer than RK, hence the level of kickbacks in your personal pocket.
  48. v245721
    v245721 19 July 2015 19: 35
    -2
    one nonsense wrote fool and others discuss all this nonsense. stop a lot of text and a clear throw-in mess. !!!! and I wonder where did such digital numbers come from ????
  49. chester9
    chester9 19 July 2015 19: 41
    +1
    The author, slow down, the state language in Russia is Russian, and what the hell are the tablets should be duplicated in some Chinese ??? do not sell for imported pennies over a hill !!! be in the country once you live here !!
  50. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 19 July 2015 19: 54
    +6
    Over time, we understand that China is no better than Europe. All around are predators. Do not pretend to be herbivores. Only by playing on the contradictions between them, playing only for oneself, can one succeed.
    1. AndreySTR
      AndreySTR 19 July 2015 20: 41
      -2
      Weak - attacks. Strong - always calm.