Military Review

"Suns", which are in service with the Russian army, in some parameters are inferior to export samples

179
In recent years, foreign customers have been actively interested in the flame-throwing systems “Sunstock” produced by the Omsk Transport Engineering Plant. Now these machines are already in service with the armies of Azerbaijan, Kazakhstan and Iraq. Moreover, supplied abroad TOC-1A are more perfect than those that are used in the Russian army, writes Messenger of Mordovia.


"Suns", which are in service with the Russian army, in some parameters are inferior to export samples


The fact is that “Sunshine” delivered for export are created on the basis of T-90С with B-92С2 engine with 1000 hp power, the agency reports and gives the characteristics of these machines:

"Mass, t. - 44,3
Crew, pers. - 3
Maximum speed km / h - 60
Power reserve, km - 500

ARMAMENT
Multi-launcher launcher
Number of guide tubes, pcs. - 24
Shooting range, m:
- minimum - 400
- maximum - 6000
Full salvo time, sec. - 6
Type of ammunition - Nurs.

Flamethrowers, located in the Russian army, are made on the basis of decommissioned T-72.



TOC-1A Iraqi Army

Another advantage of export machines, according to the author, is “their equipment with built-in dynamic protection - both the upper front part of the hull and the side projections”.

“Suns” of the Russian army are not equipped with dynamic protection at all.

“The result, due to the lack of such protection, can be very sad if TOSs find themselves under the fire of anti-tank weapons of the enemy,” concludes the Herald of Mordovia.
Photos used:
vestnik-rm.ru
179 comments
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  1. sever.56
    sever.56 10 July 2015 14: 09
    -10%
    What nonsense ... !!! Where is the government, the Ministry of Defense looking? Or did the loot outshine?
    The last thing, when samples are sent for export better than those that are in service with the Russian army! Rogozin needs to take this topic into control!
    1. GRAY
      GRAY 10 July 2015 14: 14
      +122
      Quote: sever.56
      What nonsense ... !!! Where does the government, the Ministry of Defense look ??? Or the loot of an eye overshadowed ???

      There, by the crew, overhead, 24 thermobaric logs. Dynamic protection will not help.
      1. Conductor
        Conductor 10 July 2015 14: 33
        +5
        And really, how sensitive is this ammunition to the effect of an explosion of an element of dz?
        1. GRAY
          GRAY 10 July 2015 14: 47
          +4
          Quote: Explorer
          And really, how sensitive is this ammunition to the effect of an explosion of an element of dz?

          PCs are equipped with a fire mixture.
          The guides themselves are protected from 7.62, nothing will happen if you undermine the element itself, but what happens if you undermine what gets into this element is a question.
          1. igordok
            igordok 10 July 2015 15: 41
            +25
            Quote: GRAY
            PCs are equipped with a fire mixture.
            The guides themselves are protected from 7.62, nothing will happen if you undermine the element itself, but what happens if you undermine what gets into this element is a question.

            "Fire mixture" is a metallic powder that burns when sprayed in air. It is almost impossible to set fire to a shell, in an unsprayed, caked state. So until the propelling charges go off, only the engine is dangerous in the ammunition.
            1. Botanologist
              Botanologist 10 July 2015 15: 55
              +10
              There will be enough engines to carry this T-72 into space, if at least half of it works. And when jamming missiles after firing, this thing is quite real.
              1. crazyrom
                crazyrom 11 July 2015 02: 44
                +2
                In fact, when undermining the missiles in the guides, the tank will simply squeeze to the ground, not for long. That's why he and the tank, he is not afraid of a cloud of fire, it is relatively tight (if he can ride underwater). Lights up later or not, is another question, but the crew definitely will not have anything, in extreme cases, will have to throw the car. Tank, even a direct hit of land mines is not terrible, not like a cloud of fire. Fire + vacuum + temperature only affects unarmored and easily armored leaky targets. I think even all sorts of MRAP and armored KAMAZ (Typhoon probably) will easily withstand close undermining of this projectile, well, maybe it can turn over and the wheels burst and burn, but remain intact inside.
                1. igor.borov775
                  igor.borov775 11 July 2015 22: 37
                  +1
                  Don’t say it. I just listened to the designers and they said something completely different. I advised you not to risk the density of the cover, a very serious one will smear exactly on the wall if it is not burned out. And miss one more thing you worked out and brought to mind on your technique the result is one hundred percent predictable. You must understand that ours are trying hard. If you did, we did not want to excuse me. I guess what it is about. Six roller platform will be only T-72. This was announced and the point. And the main platform of the T-14. All unification. You can shake the air but the decision has already been made. The equipment does not stand still; soon the new weapons of these systems will come to mind, and then they will modernize in full as expected.
                  1. crazyrom
                    crazyrom 16 July 2015 03: 22
                    +1
                    Well, just think, vut you are an engineer, come up with Buratin. Since he is on the tank chassis, then for what? To fight on the front lines, protect the crew from shooting. Suddenly, a deadly box of 1x3x5 meters above the head, from one hit from Kalash everyone dies. Seriously? All of this is checked, tested, the box is likely to be swept from both 12,7mm and DShK and from which it wasn’t swept. Everything is brought to mind. Nothing bad will happen.
            2. rosarioagro
              rosarioagro 10 July 2015 16: 34
              +5
              Quote: igordok
              "Fire mixture" is a metallic powder that burns when sprayed in air.

              As I understand it, aluminum is something that does not oxidize, so if a cumulative stream sets it on fire it will burn merrily and uncontrollably melting all around, like a lithium battery, when pierced with a nail, only a larger scale
              1. 78bor1973
                78bor1973 10 July 2015 16: 45
                +14
                Just for experiment, take the light bulb and remove the flask, screw it into the "cartridge", take a plastic bag, pour flour, inflate and wrap the cartridge, shake the bag and plug it into the socket, I guarantee an incredible feeling!
              2. Nick
                Nick 10 July 2015 22: 08
                +4
                Quote: rosarioagro
                it will burn merrily and uncontrollably melting all around, about like a lithium battery, when pierced with a nail,

                But you are a researcher ... what
                1. sap
                  sap 10 July 2015 23: 34
                  +8
                  After all, the kids read damn it. My Lord doesn’t bring such a Mundeley.
                  1. Region-25.rus
                    Region-25.rus 11 July 2015 09: 53
                    +2
                    yeah)) 30 years ago he experimented with everyone)) But he was lucky) Only the palace burned in three places winked
            3. Asadullah
              Asadullah 10 July 2015 18: 05
              +5
              in unsprayed, caked form it is almost impossible to set fire.


              There is still an oxidizing agent and an inhibitor. Catch fire. Another light up. It’s hard to set fire to a accumulator, with matches or a lighter. And this one will light up and also detonate. It all depends on the case.
              1. psiho117
                psiho117 10 July 2015 21: 19
                +2
                Quote: Asadullah
                in unsprayed, caked form it is almost impossible to set fire.


                There is still an oxidizing agent and an inhibitor. Catch fire. Another light up. It’s hard to set fire to a accumulator, with matches or a lighter. And this one will light up and also detonate. It all depends on the case.

                Thermobaric mixtures do not contain an oxidizing agent. So it can catch fire only from the BZT line-up at point blank range. But from the stray bullets, the launcher is armored, and aimed shooting at the installation in any case should not be allowed.
                Well, detonation is generally impossible without a regular fuse.
              2. tol100v
                tol100v 10 July 2015 22: 11
                +5
                Quote: Asadullah
                There is still an oxidizing agent and an inhibitor

                I ask you not to confuse two mutually exclusive things! You are welcome! These are the basics of chemistry and the theory of combustion! And then Zeldovich with the team will teach you a LESSON!
                1. Asadullah
                  Asadullah 11 July 2015 13: 22
                  +1
                  Have mercy! An explosion from a flash differs in milliseconds. Tepmobar, it's still a very short flash, precisely calculated. And the direct conductor of this outbreak is the very inhibitor that prevents the outbreak history from being too short. So ordinary ash is an inhibitor of the oxidation of ordinary sugar, restraining the development of oxidation products, you won’t crush a piece of sugar with a match, but shaking off the ashes of a cigarette on it is easy. For the development of oxidation in this case does not occur instantly, but allows combustion products to stand out.

                  Among other things, these ignition initiators are present, without going into details, it is very combustible in itself, not to mention the ability to ignite. In addition to TB, there are ordinary incendiary NURSs with a wide range of active substances. I see no reason for them not to ignite, well, unless Zeldovich convinces)). And about the lesson, I’m always glad to listen to a smart person.
            4. psiho117
              psiho117 10 July 2015 21: 24
              +4
              Quote: igordok

              "Fire mixture" is a metallic powder that burns when sprayed in air. It is almost impossible to set fire to a shell, in an unsprayed, caked state.

              you are mistaken - in modern TB mixtures of magnesium-aluminum powder, somewhere around 10-20%, depending on the type of ammunition. The rest is liquid combustible chemistry (usually something like isopropyl nitrate) mixed with stabilizers and phlegmatizers. So it’s possible to set fire, but not with an ordinary bullet or a fragment.
              1. Asadullah
                Asadullah 11 July 2015 16: 33
                0
                Yeah. Only in the discussion did we pile everything together, a thermobar and fuel-air. But we are still talking about a thermal bar, which can also be charged with VOG. So Bumblebees, these are nitroesters with magnesium-aluminum powder about 50%, plus 10% of the mass of explosive explosives. As for Solntsepekov, then we look at the NURS marking, A3 will definitely correspond to hexogen, aluminum mixed in wax. All other markings, various nitroesters, numbers, - proportion.
        2. st25310
          st25310 10 July 2015 16: 49
          -5
          Our TOS will soon be based on Almaty.
          1. Fedor Bolts
            Fedor Bolts 10 July 2015 17: 08
            +12
            We have Armata in the form of a tank, it will not be soon
            1. Per se.
              Per se. 10 July 2015 18: 53
              +7
              Quote: Fedor Boltov
              We have Armata in the form of a tank, it will not be soon

              On top of that, how rational is it to make the same self-propelled guns, TOSs, various bridgelayers, repair and recovery vehicles, and so on, on the Armata platform (on which the T-14 is now estimated at about 400 million apiece), when the ready-made chassis T- 72, and there is still the possibility of producing the T-90 tank on a cheaper and more mastered base? On the photo ACS "Coalition" (on the T-90 chassis).
              1. Mik13
                Mik13 11 July 2015 16: 00
                0
                Quote: Per se.
                On top of that, how rational is it to make the same self-propelled guns, TOSs, various bridgelayers, repair and recovery vehicles, and so on, on the Armata platform (on which the T-14 is now estimated at about 400 million apiece), when the ready-made chassis T- 72, and there is still the possibility of producing the T-90 tank on a cheaper and more mastered base?


                Very rational. Because it turns out cheaper. The T-14 SLA and equipment are much more expensive than the chassis.

                KMK, it is advisable to make equipment on the Armat platform for those parts where the T-14 is armed. It will be easier to service, respectively - cheaper.

                And for parts on the T-90 \ 72 it is really better based on them so far ...
          2. Fedor Bolts
            Fedor Bolts 10 July 2015 17: 08
            +2
            We have Armata in the form of a tank, it will not be soon
      2. theadenter
        theadenter 10 July 2015 15: 58
        +13
        And that's true. Ours saved very well. And for export "vparili" more expensive.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 10 July 2015 20: 08
          0
          We save money on rearmament, they don’t buy tricked out things.
          1. theadenter
            theadenter 11 July 2015 05: 23
            +3
            Refusal from irrational (excess) tricks is difficult to call thoughtless economy.
      3. Drmadfisher
        Drmadfisher 10 July 2015 16: 06
        -3
        messenger of Mordovia, yeahhhh, super look up to them
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 10 July 2015 16: 19
          +27
          Quote: DrMadfisher
          messenger of Mordovia, yeahhhh, super look up to them

          You shouldn't be sneering. "Vestnik Mordor" very often publishes "tasty" materials on domestic weapons.
          In fact, it is the unofficial "Bulletin of the Military Industrial Complex of the Russian Federation". smile
      4. 78bor1973
        78bor1973 10 July 2015 16: 39
        +10
        The article is nothing, they compare TOS-1 "Buratino" with TOS-1M "Solntsepёk", proves another amateurism of journalists, "Solntsepkov" TOS-1M based on T-72 does not exist in nature, on its basis only "Buratino".
        1. Mavric
          Mavric 10 July 2015 19: 03
          +3
          +100500, the first thought was where did we get the Sun? All his life was Pinocchio.
      5. Asadullah
        Asadullah 10 July 2015 17: 58
        +12
        Exactly. In addition, these vehicles are not designed for direct combat collisions, the protection is of a nature against an accidental fragment, and the tank base is for confident patency. Much more important is what b \ n in these tubes.
        1. tol100v
          tol100v 10 July 2015 22: 17
          0
          Quote: Asadullah
          . Much more important is what b \ n in these tubes.

          And there may be very good ammunition, suitable in caliber! Guess !?
      6. Per se.
        Per se. 10 July 2015 19: 06
        +2
        Quote: GRAY
        There, by the crew, overhead, 24 thermobaric logs. Dynamic protection will not help.
        Probably, the main problem is not this, but why weapons of this class are generally sold for export ... A vacuum bomb, systems with thermobaric charges, these are weapons comparable in impact strength to nuclear ammunition. Why equip your potential enemies with such powerful weapons as "Soltsepek" and "Buratino" (as well as multiple launch rocket systems such as "Tornado")? There are not many of them in our army, with a reduced number of personnel.
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 10 July 2015 21: 38
          +3
          Quote: Per se.
          Perhaps the main problem is not this, but why weapons of this class are generally sold for export ... A vacuum bomb, systems with thermobaric charges, this weapon is comparable in force to the effects of nuclear weapons.

          Weapons "of this class" have been known since the days of Vietnam, they cleared the landing sites for helicopter assault in the jungle. So there are no creepy secrets there, any novice chemist can make a self-made OD charge, the only difference is that the army mixture is more stable and more powerful.

          And tales about the "vacuum" bomb (I burn this amateurish name bully ) and an analogue of tactical nuclear weapons - leave to the journalists: in fact, everything is much simpler - compared to conventional explosives for open space, OD mixtures can increase the explosiveness by 1,2-2,5 times, TB of the mixture - by 1,5-2 times, BB "with afterburning" - 0,5-1 times. In a closed volume, the ODS - 3,5 times, TBS and explosives "with afterburning" - 2,5 times.
        2. sap
          sap 10 July 2015 23: 37
          0
          Well, probably Syria?
        3. igor.borov775
          igor.borov775 11 July 2015 22: 59
          0
          And how can you re-equip production itself from 20 trillion 25 to re-equip production. And now, spending has increased precisely on the re-equipment of production. And one more point is not taken into account. Most enterprises produce civilian products. Every year its production is increasing. Lord, do not let everything gather speed immediately.
      7. tol100v
        tol100v 10 July 2015 21: 57
        0
        Quote: GRAY
        . Dynamic protection will not help.

        There, the connection will not help! But, it is thought that the Order will be executed!
      8. WE ARE MAKING
        WE ARE MAKING 10 July 2015 22: 59
        0
        Yes? And from the side armor-piercing ones?
      9. dobryak19
        dobryak19 10 July 2015 23: 40
        0
        if it’s real, then the crew, in the event of a hit and penetration, unfortunately has no chance ....
      10. Alexey-74
        Alexey-74 11 July 2015 09: 40
        0
        I agree, but it’s still unpleasant when export vehicles are better than ours in the army, and it doesn’t matter what happens, shelling on the march and much more, dynamic protection is needed.
    2. KERTAK
      KERTAK 10 July 2015 14: 14
      +12
      It's like an export Lada in its time. And most likely, the customer simply asked to put dynamic protection without knowing that in fact it is not needed. Our cities are not equipped with the same dynamic protection, and I think the sun does not need this. Solntsepeki shoot from 400 meters to 6 km. As it was written above, if a shell or rocket hits it, then the charges detonate and dynamic protection will not help in this case. And about the chassis and base, you can change it.
      1. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak 10 July 2015 14: 47
        +5
        Quote: KERTAK
        And about the chassis and base, you can change it.

        But it will cost extra money. Where to get them from?
        Look how many screams have already been heard regarding the "Armata" that it is a very expensive car. fool
        1. KERTAK
          KERTAK 10 July 2015 15: 45
          +1
          I agree with you that the armature chassis is expensive. Below I expressed an idea about this.
          I mean to put the chassis of the T-90 for the Russian army and not the T-72
          1. Ezhaak
            Ezhaak 10 July 2015 19: 27
            0
            Quote: KERTAK
            Armata chassis is expensive

            This is a separate conversation. Electronics and all sorts of tricks like active protection flies a pretty penny! And they will reduce the cost of the car mainly due to these bells and whistles. For there are crowds of those who believe that this is not necessary.
      2. novobranets
        novobranets 10 July 2015 15: 14
        -2
        Quote: KERTAK
        As it was written above, if a shell or rocket hits it, then the charges detonate and dynamic protection will not help in this case.

        And if an anti-tank system or a blank gets into the chassis (just don’t say that the grenade doesn’t fly at such a distance, there could be anything), but the package won’t touch? Without the DZ, which is not very expensive, and which could protect the car, the installation got up, and on a motionless target, loopy slowly, until you really get into the guides. My opinion is that protection is not superfluous. hi
        1. KERTAK
          KERTAK 10 July 2015 15: 50
          +7
          I don’t know exactly how the car showed itself in conflicts. but I think that the car is not involved in the battles at the forefront along with tanks
          1. novobranets
            novobranets 10 July 2015 19: 29
            0
            TOS is designed to cover tanks and infantry. He does not work in the same ranks with tanks, but the small firing range forces the TOC to follow the battle formations, at a relatively small distance.
            1. Inok10
              Inok10 10 July 2015 19: 59
              +10
              Quote: novobranets
              TOS is designed to cover tanks and infantry.

              .. CBT is in the arsenal of the RKhBZ Troops !!!!!!!!!!! .. am .. one "half-creed in half-shoes" made a stuffing with a reference to the Bulletin of Mordovia and no one bothered to check the source !!! ... THERE IS NO SUCH ARTICLE THERE !!! .. NO !!! .. well, the rest smear snot on the desk without knowing the difference between TOS "Buratino" and TOS 1M "Solntsepek" .. disgusting to watch .. am
              1. novobranets
                novobranets 10 July 2015 20: 09
                -3
                Similarly, Pinocchio, the TOS-1A Solntsepek heavy flamethrower system is designed for fire support of infantry and tanks, destruction of enemy manpower, open and closed fire positions in various types of offensive and defensive combat, and also for the destruction of lightly armored vehicles and vehicles funds. TOS-1A operates in combat formations of supported troops from open and closed positions.http://dokwar.ru/publ/vooruzhenie/artillerija_i_rszo/modernizirovannaja_
                tjazhelaja_ognemetnaja_sistema_tos_1a_quot_solncepek_quot/14-1-0-60
                1. Inok10
                  Inok10 10 July 2015 20: 28
                  +3
                  Quote: novobranets
                  Similarly, "Pinocchio", a heavy flamethrower system TOS-1A "Solntsepek"

                  .. learn MATCH, YOUR MOTHER! .. CBT and CBT 1M is not MLRS !!!!! .. this is the armament of the RKhBZ troops to destroy a cloud of chemical warfare agents! .. that's why the thermobaric charge !!! but not high-explosive! .. the discussion is over ... you don’t need to copy the wiki, you need to think with your head !!! .. am
                  1. novobranets
                    novobranets 10 July 2015 20: 37
                    0
                    Okay, you don’t like Vika, but the "Dogs of War" magazine will do? Read if you can. Your mother is the same. hi .http: //www.dogswar.ru/artilleriia/raketnoe-oryjie/6282-tiajelaia-ognemetnai.htm
                    l
                    This is the armament of the RKhBZ troops to destroy a cloud of chemical warfare agents!
                    Brilliantly, I take off my hat. To discuss the truth is useless.
                    1. Inok10
                      Inok10 10 July 2015 21: 03
                      +4
                      Quote: novobranets
                      Okay, you don’t like Vika, but the "Dogs of War" magazine will do?

                      .. will not do !!! am .. the GRAU MO index of the Russian Federation for ammunition is suitable for me ..
                      What, there is no such ?! ..that is, nothing to do with artillery and MLRS .. TOS / TOS 1A (M) does not have !! .. oh, sadness turns out to be ..
                      .. a, the rhbm ammunition index is:
                      MO.1.01.00 - TOS-1
                      MO.1.01.04 - NURS TOS-1A
                      MO.1.01.04M - NURS TOS-1A

                      .. I have the honor! .. you deserve the disadvantages, for not knowing MATCHIES! .. consider outfits to be out of turn .. hi
                      1. novobranets
                        novobranets 10 July 2015 21: 15
                        +1
                        Quote: Inok10
                        .. consider outfits to be out of turn ..

                        I’m very grateful, but I will refuse, I’m not worthy, you know. You are carried away with exclamation marks, but this is not an argument.
                      2. psiho117
                        psiho117 10 July 2015 22: 01
                        +3
                        Quote: Inok10
                        .. the GRAU MO index of the Russian Federation for ammunition is suitable for me ..
                        What, there is no such ?! ..that is, nothing to do with artillery and MLRS .. TOS / TOS 1A (M) does not have !! .. oh, sadness turns out to be ..

                        your conclusion is generally a finger to the sky.
                        Likely it will be a discovery for you that we have 2 types of Bumblebee with different indices - for MO and RCBM, 2 types of RCB - again for MO and RCBZ, and even 2 types of grenade launchers: GM-94 and LPO-97, for them .
                        All the differences are only in the name and index of the GRAU.
                        At our place, Allah doesn’t order the use of the same-called weapons - at the MO \ Fleet \ UFSIN \ BB - it will all be with a different name \ index \ supply and other senility.

                        So if tomorrow some nibul "stripe" has its left heel scratched, the GRAU will calmly recline the TOC in some POS for the infantry and FOS for the fleet, well, it will calmly come up with 2 more new types of indexes for the same NURs.
                      3. Inok10
                        Inok10 10 July 2015 22: 39
                        +4
                        Quote: psiho117
                        your conclusion is generally a finger to the sky.

                        .. indexes "in the studio"! .. give me ammunition MO.1.01.00 - TOS-1 with the GRAU index .. laughing .. and yet, a very small, but significant remark .. The troops of the Russian Chemical Forces are a kind of troops of the Moscow Region .. laughing .. you just "don't know" the composition of the RF Armed Forces. This is for your passage about ..
                        Quote: psiho117
                        that we have 2 types of Bumblebee with different indices - for MO and RCBZ, 2 types of RCB - again for MO and RCBZ

                        .. oil painting .. laughing ..
                        Quote: psiho117
                        and even 2 types of grenade launchers: gm-94 and LPO-97, for them.
                        All the differences - only in the name and index of GRAU

                        .. ah, you distinguish MIA and MO .. as I understand it no .. GM 94 (first modification of GM 93) is a grenade launcher for specialists of the Ministry of Internal Affairs used indoors only with thermobaric ammunition .. LPO-97 - combined arms army .. with other characteristics of ammunition .. you managed to confuse "warm" with "soft" well .. laughing .. GRAU has nothing to do with the Ministry of Internal Affairs! ..this is the Directorate of the Ministry of Defense, not the Ministry of Internal Affairs! .. bully
                      4. novobranets
                        novobranets 11 July 2015 05: 14
                        +1
                        I didn’t want to get involved, but I don’t have the strength to read this balcony.
                        it is a grenade launcher for specialists of the Ministry of Internal Affairs used indoors only with thermobaric ammunition ..
                        Firstly, this is an army grenade launcher, in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, etc., they began to use it a year later (in fairness, it suits them well)
                        In 2007, a hand-held grenade launcher entered service with the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, and in 2008, the Federal Security Service also began using a hand-held grenade launcher in its units.
                        http://topwar.ru/8905-tulskiy-ruchnoy-granatomet-gm-94.html Во вторых-не с исключительно ТБ-боеприпасом, а с тремя видами. В третьих- применять ТБ в закрытом помещении, это надо много выпить. Ну и в четвертых, поберегите здоровье, хотя бы закусывайте. Почитал Ваши предидущие комменты, сравнил со вчерашними- два разных человека писали. Вывод- пятница- святое дело, но злоупотреблять не стоит, а то Вы себе позволяете лишнее. Это я без подначки, по дружески. hi
                      5. Inok10
                        Inok10 11 July 2015 19: 26
                        +4
                        Quote: novobranets
                        I didn’t want to get involved, but I don’t have the strength to read this balcony.
                        .. start with the story of creation ..
                        The GM-93 / GM-94 manual multiple-charge grenade launcher was developed at the Tula Instrument Design Bureau in the early 1990s. The GM-93 hand-held grenade launcher was developed on the basis of the RMB-93 pump-action combat rifle, which was also designed at the Tula KBP, but it was not in demand in law enforcement agencies. It was a pity to abandon the "original" scheme of the RMB-93, which was not understood by contemporaries, and on the basis of the design of the RMB-93 a system was created that was already close to the "soul of an artilleryman" of 43 mm caliber. The new sample differed from the prototype only in size and minor design changes associated with an increase in caliber. It's hard to say what prompted the creation of a truly original design, but the weapon turned out to be quite curious. The world has never seen a pump-action shotgun with a rifled bore of such a terrifying caliber!
                        and read on ..
                        The main type of ammunition for the GM-93 was a grenade with thermobaric equipment. The kit also included a practical shot with an inert disc and a training cartridge. In the future, missile elements of traumatic, lighting, smoke, etc. were promised. actions. The propellant charge of these unitary shots was located in a short sleeve, borrowed from a cartridge with an active-reactive projectile for the TKB-700 experimental aviation gun of 45 mm caliber, which never went into mass production.
                        .. and more ..
                        The first object for the introduction of GM-93 was chosen by the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation. However, due to the scarcity of the available ammunition palette, of which the only one that was far from being the most necessary for law enforcement agencies was thermobaric, there was no interest in the new grenade launcher. Nevertheless, work to improve the new weapons continued and, a year later, a modernized model of the GM-93 appeared, which received the GM-94 index.
                        ..that is, with the pedigree, time of birth and place sorted out .. hi .. continue ..
                      6. Inok10
                        Inok10 11 July 2015 19: 52
                        +4
                        .. continue ..
                        Quote: novobranets
                        Firstly, this is an army grenade launcher, in the Ministry of Internal Affairs, etc., they began to use it a year later (in fairness, it suits them well)

                        .. that is, the above history of birth points exactly to the Ministry of Internal Affairs .. it is already later, at the turn of 2000, we find such an interesting specimen as "the requirement for a shot from LPO 97" .. with interesting characteristics .. the minimum range is 5 meters, the fuse platoon is not more than 3 meters after exiting the bore .. the charge in the grenade must have a TNT equivalent in pressure within a radius of 2 m. not less than 1.5 .. that is, a shot into the next room .. the original is attached .. this is to your conclusion about enclosed spaces. ...
                        Quote: novobranets
                        Thirdly, use TB indoors, it is necessary to drink a lot.
                        .. keyword - equivalent ! .. hi .. and LPO-97 entered service with the Russian Chemical Safety Base and engineering battalions in 2002, the index is MO.1.16.01.000, adopted for service on 11.12.2002/XNUMX/XNUMX .. hi
                      7. Inok10
                        Inok10 11 July 2015 20: 02
                        +3
                        .. and, here is the hero of the occasion .. pay attention to the grenade! .. the initial speed of the grenade in the barrel bore 85 m / s .. this is LPO 97 .. armed with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation .. hi
                      8. Inok10
                        Inok10 11 July 2015 20: 07
                        +3
                        .. and, here is the product under the index GM 94 Ministry of Internal Affairs .. again attention to the grenade! .. hi .. feel the difference ?! .. the initial speed of the grenade in the bore is 76 m / s .. the two products described are different, but of the same type .. hi
                      9. Inok10
                        Inok10 11 July 2015 20: 16
                        +3
                        Quote: novobranets
                        I read your previous comments, compared with yesterday, two different people wrote. Conclusion, Friday is a holy cause, but you should not abuse it, otherwise you allow yourself too much. This is me without a second, in a friendly way.

                        .. after the above about LPO 97 and GM 94 having different performance characteristics:
                        - at maximum range
                        - sighting range
                        - are not unified by ammunition!
                        .. what else he said yesterday .. conclusion .. maybe you should learn the performance characteristics and external differences between TOS-1 "Buratino" and TOS 1A (M) "Solntsepek" .. and in what kind of troops they are in service and not to be confused tactics of their use with MLRS .. just as a friend .. hi
    3. psiho117
      psiho117 10 July 2015 21: 03
      +3
      Quote: Inok10
      TOS and TOS 1M is not MLRS !!!!! .. this is the armament of the RKhBZ troops to destroy a cloud of chemical warfare agents! .. that's why the thermobaric charge !!! but not high-explosive!

      Dear, you are raving. Some freak blurted out that this is a facility for burning BOV, and for several years this nonsense has been walking on the Internet.
      Home-grown "experts" are unaware that the Gloomy Soviet Genius has always traditionally attributed everything related to flamethrower weapons to the RChBZ troops.
      And this is not because chlorine and mustard clouds were planned to be burned out of flamethrowers - but because this was a tradition even from the First World War, chemists were supposed to mess with gas cylinder equipment, and what they would spray from it was already the tenth thing.
      It is no secret that initially the thermobar was developed for chemists as a potentially high-power filling of incendiary means.
      It was then that all the other branches of the army had tasted this new tasty treat, and wanted the same, and now they are not surprised by hand and grenade launcher TB grenades, aviation and artillery TB warheads, etc.
      1. Inok10
        Inok10 10 July 2015 21: 29
        +3
        Quote: psiho117
        Dear, you are raving. Some freak blurted out that this is a facility for burning BOV, and for several years this nonsense has been walking on the Internet.
        Home-grown "experts" are unaware that the Gloomy Soviet Genius has always traditionally attributed everything related to flamethrower weapons to the RChBZ troops.
        And this is not because chlorine and mustard clouds were planned to be burned out of flamethrowers - but because this was a tradition even from the First World War, chemists were supposed to mess with gas cylinder equipment, and what they would spray from it was already the tenth thing.
        It is no secret that initially the thermobar was developed for chemists as a potentially high-power filling of incendiary means.

        .. one BM TOS-1A (M) .. 40 000 m2 at a temperature of 2000 C .. on 4 hectares at a temperature of 2000 C, do you claim to preserve at least something? .. it's you raving .. laughing .. of this and the troops of the Russian Chemistry Base! .. bully
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 10 July 2015 22: 22
          +3
          Quote: Inok10
          40 000 m2 at a temperature of 2000 C .. on 4 hectares at a temperature of 2000 C, do you claim to preserve at least something? .. it's you raving .. laughing .. of this and the troops of the Russian Chemistry Base! .. bully


          Seriously? Why not use nuclear weapons right away? there the temperature is higher)) at once it will burn out the entire infection))

          Here I can imagine - they dropped the japs ​​on the Far Eastern VO with infectious ticks and rats - and here we are, let's plow the forest from Buratinka! or Palladins "partners" XM687 use - Pinocchio is right there, all of that, degassing.
          Do you even have an initial idea of ​​modern means of chemical and biological damage? I'm afraid not.

          No, well, if you manage to send a battery of TOCs on April 22. 1915 on the Ypres ledge - you may be able to disrupt the insidious plan of the gene. Falkenhayn - I’m only afraid that it will be more effective to use on the enemy, and not on the cloud ...
        2. Inok10
          Inok10 10 July 2015 22: 57
          +3
          ... Osovets! .. PLACE OF RUSSIAN MILITARY GOOD! .. soldier .. with you psiho117.. empty yap .. I have nothing to talk about! ..
  • kotvov
    kotvov 10 July 2015 20: 13
    0
    My opinion is that protection is not superfluous. ,,
    But what does this make the car heavier. Do not take it into account? According to the idea of ​​the pinocchio problem, the same as the carts. I jumped out, shot and dumped.
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 10 July 2015 20: 24
      -2
      Quote: kotvov
      and what does it make the car heavier. We don’t take into account?

      Take this option into account - jumped out, got it (not even fatally, to the ice rink), and could neither shoot back nor dump it. And how heavy a car is a simple DZ?
      1. man_of_war
        man_of_war 11 July 2015 06: 31
        +2
        Dear, do not screw up nonsense, you are contradicting yourself ... The answer to the question, how many DZ blocks can fit on the rollers and whether anyone puts them there? ... in many modern conflicts, armored combat vehicles were struck in 70% of cases in the turrets ... so TPSs have a higher probability of "catching" something with guides than a chassis ...
        1. novobranets
          novobranets 11 July 2015 10: 13
          0
          Here is the onboard protection. Surely saving more than one life. At the same time, it covers the upper, most often affected part of the tracks. Well, this, of course, is nonsense, really, why? Why try to save the crew, if some "specialists" say - no need, it won't help anyway, we buried them in advance.
          1. novobranets
            novobranets 11 July 2015 10: 16
            0
  • KERTAK
    KERTAK 10 July 2015 16: 00
    +1
    thermobaric charge in the sun. Why not create thermobaric rockets for Grad?
  • Parkan
    Parkan 10 July 2015 21: 16
    0
    the fact that the Grads are not protected at all by anything is just bad, if such a convoy falls on a march under shelling or at positions, then such a car with a crew can easily be put into disrepair not even by a direct hit by a blast wave and fragments, it would be logical to reserve packages at least from fragments and a chassis of the Typhoon-U or K type
  • tol100v
    tol100v 10 July 2015 22: 29
    +1
    Quote: KERTAK
    . And about the chassis and base, you can change it.

    I agree. You can put it on a cart with a battery and hydraulics during start-up!
  • The comment was deleted.
    1. sever.56
      sever.56 10 July 2015 14: 36
      +15
      What are you saying ...! The workers were paid back their salary debts, about fifty criminal cases were instituted, managers who disrupted the terms of putting the cosmodrome into operation were dismissed, about twenty people were arrested and are in jail.
      The spaceport will be put into operation on time.
    2. subbtin.725
      subbtin.725 10 July 2015 15: 47
      +6
      Quote: Bridge
      Something control Rogozin did not prevent the mess at the construction site of the Vostochny cosmodrome.

      I live nearby, work is ongoing.
  • Falcon
    Falcon 10 July 2015 14: 31
    +6
    Why does she need a powerful engine? she’s not at the forefront with tanks. Only more consumption and less resource.
  • Tambov Wolf
    Tambov Wolf 10 July 2015 14: 36
    +3
    You’re a strange comrade. You yourself answered the question in the third sentence and ask again. Traders in power rule. And you’ll find traitors, too.
    1. sever.56
      sever.56 10 July 2015 14: 48
      +2
      Quote: Tambov Wolf
      Themselves in the third sentence answered their own question and still ask.


      I, in fact, do not ask in my comment, but express my discontent, comrade ...
  • mQn
    mQn 10 July 2015 15: 13
    +23
    What a strange boil? What is so bad about the t72 database ?????? T-90 is understandably better, but this is a slight difference, we are not comparing tanks. Firepower is the same, permeability level. And heavy-duty armor for this machine is unnecessary, it’s not a tank, it doesn’t work in the first lines. the approximate principle of hail, but there you do not shout that the truck has little armor! nothing wrong with that. It just comes out much cheaper, we have thousands of wheelbases from the t-72, so they produce these systems on it.
    1. poquello
      poquello 10 July 2015 17: 39
      +1
      Quote: mQn
      What a strange boil? What is so bad about the t72 database ?????? T-90 is understandably better, but this is a slight difference, we are not comparing tanks. Firepower is the same, permeability level. And heavy-duty armor for this machine is unnecessary, it’s not a tank, it doesn’t work in the first lines. the approximate principle of hail, but there you do not shout that the truck has little armor! nothing wrong with that. It just comes out much cheaper, we have thousands of wheelbases from the t-72, so they produce these systems on it.

      + everything is correct, except for armor and hail, those tornadoes also do up to 70km, but they are not convenient everywhere, everything is rational with booking - they are procrastinating from Afghanistan
  • KGB WATCH YOU
    KGB WATCH YOU 10 July 2015 15: 15
    +2
    I don’t know, does the MO buy Solntsepeki in our army? In my opinion, no. So the claims are unfounded.
    1. jjj
      jjj 10 July 2015 15: 31
      +1
      It seems that Vestnik Mordovia also receives funds from Hirst
  • gav6757
    gav6757 10 July 2015 15: 37
    0
    Send these solntsepeki to the LPR and the DPR, let them bake dill there !!!
  • Juborg
    Juborg 10 July 2015 16: 13
    +8
    Guys, than throwing spears at each other, it's better to follow the links and see that the photo has the author, but the text does not. It is not clear what kind of special this all was composed, "Vestnik Mordovii" began to print something, and "VO", to retype "duck". Well, about the T-72, a good use of this chassis (there are a lot of them in warehouses and there will be no problems in spare parts), the tank closes hermetically, therefore, what is placed above it will not cause much harm to the crew if it detonates or detonates. Well, about active defense, there is nothing to raise the question at all, these are not shock machines, the maximum is the second echelon, if not the third, and acts from closed positions, like "Msta".
  • akribos
    akribos 10 July 2015 16: 28
    +4
    Shashi T72 and the lack of dynamic protection is not what worsens the quality of our machines, but the increased range, yes. But I think our army will receive modernized NURS. Sincerely.
  • Starshina wmf
    Starshina wmf 10 July 2015 18: 00
    +4
    Dynamic protection is not necessary. Then it is necessary to install the "Grad" installations with dynamic protection. What kind of nonsense.
  • Inok10
    Inok10 10 July 2015 19: 52
    +4
    .. there is no such libel on the Bulletin of Mordovia .. this is the purest stuffing .. LEARN THE MATCH, YOUR MOTHER! .. "Buratino" in the first photo! on the T-72 base .. more "Solntsepek" on the T-90 in a gerbil Iraqi .. no words .. only letters .. am
  • Ratmir_Ryazan
    Ratmir_Ryazan 11 July 2015 11: 48
    0
    There is no need to make a tragedy out of this and give in to panic to look for traitors ... Yes, this is all due to the fact that they entered service in Russia much earlier at that time and they also put tanks into service without dynamic protection ... Yes, of course, we also need those " Solntsepeki "in service in the Russian Federation to modernize and increase their security ... Like all other equipment and tanks and infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers and others ... But the means do not allow you to do everything at once ...
  • ZKB
    ZKB 11 July 2015 20: 04
    0
    led the Indians into beads ... Solntsepek- multiple launch rocket system. TOS is designed to destroy enemy manpower and equipment in the open and in shelters by undermining the thermobolic mixture. T90 base is expensive, as well as dynamic protection. this is an extra show off to push the materiel for more expensive grandmothers. they say you are the best. if you put a refrigerator with cognac, satellite TV and Wi-Fi there, it will be even more expensive, but the combat effectiveness will not increase from this. and by the way, the secret of the sun is not in the base or dynamic protection (absolutely useless, because such systems are destroyed either from the air or by artillery) but in the ammunition. and ammunition supplied for export, I think worse than domestic. so these bells and whistles are a marketing trick, no more.
  • Salavatsky Ministry of Emergency Situations
    0
    Quote: sever.56
    Where is the government looking, the Ministry of Defense? Or loot eyes overshadowed?


    And you compare the characteristics of those T-90, which are in service with us, and those that we are driving to India, as well as their number with us and the Hindus. There will be a slight shock.
  • Sergey-72
    Sergey-72 10 July 2015 14: 09
    +3
    So what's the problem? Or, as the saying goes, "give your wife to your uncle, and go to ,,,,,,"
    1. TSOOBER
      TSOOBER 10 July 2015 14: 31
      +3
      Sweat about the cut-down export options has long been a "legend of deep antiquity", only the best and only the very best (Mi-28NE with a nadtulochnaya, "Ash" to the Hindus, a photo of Indian aircraft with a modern high-precision is not like its own)! The Ministry of Defense about the very expensive "Armata" "PAK-FA", what does it mean expensive? Have our soldiers seen air conditioners in equipment? And for export there is a full "stuffing"! Why should we T-50, how can we dump "cast iron" from it, and high-precision It's a shame! The Chinese want the S-400, and they will get it in the most sophisticated version, with a long-range missile, and we will wait!
      Please supply Iskander to Belarus with a range of much more than 500 km (developed by some Belarusian enterprise, "sort of), and then I'll calm down a bit!
      In the army only in the maximum possible configuration any equipment!
      1. dyksi
        dyksi 10 July 2015 14: 56
        +5
        This nonsense can be traced in all types of weapons. The MiG-35 participated in the tender for India with the AFAR BEETLE AE, and for our Air Force they stuffed a banal slot into it, with a maximum viewing range of 120 km and said that this was space technology. Now, all other things being equal, the fighter will be more vulnerable against Raphael, Typhoon, etc., since they will see it earlier, the surprise factor will be behind them. In short, the words from the stands are one, things are completely different. They said that the best for themselves, in fact, budgetary troops are joining our troops.
  • g1v2
    g1v2 10 July 2015 14: 12
    +3
    By the way, for a long time there was a misunderstanding - more sunflowers are exported than in our troops. Either we don’t need them too much, or Iraq’s interests are our own.
    1. poquello
      poquello 10 July 2015 17: 58
      +1
      Quote: g1v2
      By the way, for a long time there was a misunderstanding - more sunflowers are exported than in our troops. Either we don’t need them too much, or Iraq’s interests are our own.

      and not too needed, and weapons are improved faster than released
    2. serenja
      serenja 10 July 2015 23: 44
      0
      And what do you think to fight in the sun, even near Bialystok, even near Rzhev? The densely populated area, however, is genocide. In the desert, it is simpler with such systems: a caravan? - caravan, militants? - they are the most! The fire! And without "accompanying victims", only if the militants do not take hostages.
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 10 July 2015 14: 13
    -3
    I think that the MLRS on Armata will be delivered over time. Not all at once. Let's make a quantum leap through the generation.
    1. 3axap82
      3axap82 10 July 2015 14: 21
      +10
      Why install such a technically primitive system on an expensive chassis? This is NURS, something like "Katyusha".
      1. Izotovp
        Izotovp 10 July 2015 15: 15
        +1
        These NURSs, like other heavy weapons, should have comparable mobility and security with other systems and should be included in the general command and control system. Do not confuse the T-14 tank and Armata !!! Armata was created as a unified platform for all types of heavy weapons and a way to get away from the soldiers of different grades.
    2. KERTAK
      KERTAK 10 July 2015 14: 27
      +3
      A little expensive. Armata 400 million worth. Maybe I'm wrong in the price, but the homestim chassis costs 1/3 of the cost, about 130 million comes out. Expensive if the T-90 costs half as much as 70 million.
      1. Tersky
        Tersky 10 July 2015 14: 38
        +7
        Quote: KERTAK
        A little expensive. Armata 400 million worth.

        There were no official confirmations of this figure and could not be. If this is true, then the amount is really fantastic: the aviation industry asks for such money for MiG-29 fighters. hi
        1. KERTAK
          KERTAK 10 July 2015 15: 43
          +1
          In the price, I could be wrong, I took the price in one of the articles of the military review. and about fighters then yes maybe a plane should cost more than a tank.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 10 July 2015 16: 25
          +3
          Quote: Tersky
          There were no official confirmations of this figure and could not be. If this is true, then the amount is really fantastic: the aviation industry asks for such money for MiG-29 fighters.

          This may be the price of the head machine.
          In 1939, Kotin asked for 1 million for the head HF. In the series, the cost decreased, EMNIP, fourfold.
    3. serenja
      serenja 10 July 2015 23: 37
      +1
      What for? For export, you can at least some, at least put on BelAZ. Why are we so expensive? Put on them a new SLA, a friend or foe system, what else is there? In short, what is really needed. They: fired a salvo, and went to the rear to charge. Almost do not participate in the battle. And the cheaper they are, the more they will be. It’s even better to transfer them to old tank chassis-chassis with modernization by itself.
  • Slevinst
    Slevinst 10 July 2015 14: 13
    +4
    in theory, they should bullet deep from the rear or i.e. to hit them you need to break through with them even with battles
    1. SRC P-15
      SRC P-15 10 July 2015 14: 17
      +5
      Quote: Slevinst
      in theory, they should bullet deep from the rear or i.e. to hit them you need to break through with them even with battles

      How deep is the rear if their firing range is 6000 m?
      In our country it is always like this: the best is abroad. Remember the cars that were exported before, in comparison with those that were sold in the country - heaven and earth.
    2. GRAY
      GRAY 10 July 2015 14: 23
      +7
      Quote: Slevinst
      in theory, they should bullet deep from the rear or i.e. to hit them you need to break through with them even with battles

      Not that it would be deep from the rear, but deep in the battle formations it should be located - yes.
  • aviator1913
    aviator1913 10 July 2015 14: 14
    +1
    Yes, they are likely to upgrade. The question is in their application. Where do we use similar systems? Due to the short range of missiles, vehicles will be found near the front line. Add. Reservations certainly improve performance, but not much. Here we need a comprehensive modernization, bringing the body and engine to the level of T-72Б3, I think it will be sufficient.
    1. 3axap82
      3axap82 10 July 2015 14: 24
      +1
      Why modernize the chassis of the machine, the meaning of which is to carry on top rails for firing rockets with unguided projectiles?
      If these charges light up from above, at least not that they detonate, then nothing will remain from the car even though the armature is at least t-72b3
      1. aviator1913
        aviator1913 10 July 2015 14: 40
        0
        I agree. But the existing engine is still too low-powered for such a colossus. And additional booking is not expensive, taking into account unification.
  • ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 10 July 2015 14: 15
    -6
    Traders are sucks. fool
    Our army - all the best! Otherwise, we will end! request
  • sells
    sells 10 July 2015 14: 15
    +4
    Everything is simpler. Iraq has money, RA does not, therefore it goes for export
    1. max702
      max702 10 July 2015 14: 24
      +5
      Quote: vend
      Everything is simpler. Iraq has money, RA does not, therefore it goes for export

      Her, with external contracts, the rollback is more interesting ..
    2. dyksi
      dyksi 10 July 2015 15: 08
      +2
      Yeah, and a few dozen passenger MS-21 MOs are ready to be purchased even today (this is at a time when five cars fall in our week, mainly due to old age), and they cost a lot. With this money you can buy a lot of Dryers and MiGs and in a good configuration.
    3. pazuhinm
      pazuhinm 10 July 2015 15: 53
      +1
      Actually, this is all the same offensive weapons. Assault. And hardly need dynamic protection. Not until the opponent will be when they beat ...
      1. lelikas
        lelikas 10 July 2015 16: 02
        +1
        Quote: pazuhinm
        Actually, this is all the same offensive weapons. Assault. And hardly need dynamic protection. Not until the opponent will be when they beat ...

        They are assigned to chemists and were created to destroy the infection.
        Fencing them with the same Contact is a matter of several hours. Katyusha also shot at tanks directly - but this is an exception and not a rule.
        Threat in the same Afghanistan - the extreme ranks simply did not charge.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 10 July 2015 16: 30
          +3
          Quote: lelikas
          They are assigned to chemists and were created to destroy the infection.

          For TOS-1A The main objective of the system is to support infantry and armored forces.
          Quote: lelikas
          Katyusha also shot at tanks directly - but this is an exception and not a rule.

          TOS-1A firing range is less than that of a 120-mm mortar. So the PU will be forced to work near the front edge.
          1. lelikas
            lelikas 10 July 2015 16: 58
            0
            I wrote - they were created, and what they are doing right now is a pleasant side effect, and it’s 3 km that they won’t roll them out for direct fire, unless they’re fighting in the steppe.
  • starhina01
    starhina01 10 July 2015 14: 16
    +3
    as always, a cobbler without a boot hi
  • flSergius
    flSergius 10 July 2015 14: 18
    +1
    And all because the plant OJSC. The bourgeois has no homeland, but there is a cottage and an account in Switzerland. Right at the time, the National Bolsheviks proposed: up to 15 people, commercial organizations, everything else is state-owned.
    1. Mostovik
      Mostovik 10 July 2015 14: 39
      0
      But Stalin did not agree with such a statement by the National Bolsheviks about the number of workers in commercial organizations. If anything, the first radio and television in the USSR were released by artels.
      1. flSergius
        flSergius 10 July 2015 15: 08
        0
        Mostovik either a schoolboy or a troll. It is clear that the matter is not in the specific number of workers, but in the influence of the mercenary interest of a businessman on the country's industry. Under Stalin, an artel could have been 1000 people, because if they were engaged in sabotage, everyone would go to a special resort, which is with cedars and bears. As many as needed, we would have gone as many as 15 people. and 1000 people
        1. Mostovik
          Mostovik 10 July 2015 15: 59
          +1
          I am not a troll, I just don’t enter individual commentators in your sect. I’m working with numbers, and I can’t understand how 15 can mean 1000)
      2. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 10 July 2015 16: 57
        +6
        Quote: Bridge
        But Stalin did not agree with such a statement by the National Bolsheviks about the number of workers in commercial organizations. If anything, the first radio and television in the USSR were released by artels.

        Chihiks ... in the discussion on teaching staff especially emphasized the simplicity of production, citing the example that this submachine gun was made even some kind of artel. Until we looked at what kind of artel it was.
        It turned out that this artel "Primus" in peacetime produced various valves, and in the war, before switching to PPS, it produced such a technologically complex monster as PPD (not PPSh, but PPD). Moreover, it was the Primus specialists who set up the production of stamped parts for PPS at other St. Petersburg manufacturers of these weapons - the Kulakov plant and the Voskov.
  • activator
    activator 10 July 2015 14: 25
    +3
    that it’s normal on the T 72 chassis, it’s not very important, it’s important it’s cheaper. but the fact that there are fewer of them even in the economy version is bad. And I don’t understand why the small firing range in comparison with the same hail and what prevents it from increasing to the MLRS level? Explain who is in the know.
    1. Wedmak
      Wedmak 10 July 2015 14: 36
      +6
      And I don’t understand why the small firing range compared to the same hail

      Due to the thermobaric warhead and its method of use (ammunition of a volume explosion). Most of the rocket takes charge, not the engine. Hence the short range of destruction, but a huge destructive ability.
    2. corporal
      corporal 10 July 2015 14: 39
      +4
      Quote: activator
      And I don’t understand why the small firing range compared to the same hail

      The main volume of the shell is occupied by explosives. There is not much space left on the propellant propellers. Increase the flight range, the power of the ammunition decreases.
      Looks like the developers found an acceptable balance: range-power.
      1. activator
        activator 10 July 2015 14: 50
        +3
        Thanks to the Witcher and Corporal. And if you increase the pipe and put in the engine, it’s more powerful
        you don’t wear it on yourselves or if the range increases, the accuracy will deteriorate, which, as I understand it, is important for these systems and you need to increase the warhead again and again in a circle? request
        1. Wedmak
          Wedmak 10 July 2015 15: 03
          +1
          .And if you increase the pipe and put in the engine more powerful all
          still not wearing

          What's the point? If you increase the diameter for a more powerful engine (and it’s solid fuel there, you can make it with a larger diameter, but it will come out more expensive), then the weight of the rocket itself will increase and the weight and dimensions of the package of guides will increase significantly. Also, with an increase in diameter, aerodynamic characteristics will decrease, and flight range and accuracy will decrease.
          and again in a circle

          In principle, yes, a vicious circle, range, warhead power, accuracy and off we go.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 10 July 2015 17: 03
          +3
          Quote: activator
          And if you increase the pipe and stick in the engine more powerful

          Then we get 9M51 from Hurricane. smile

          Shell - 256 kg, warhead - 143,5 kg, the charge itself - 30 kg.
        3. poquello
          poquello 10 July 2015 18: 06
          +1
          Quote: activator
          Thanks to the witcher and corporal. And if you increase the pipe and put in the engine, everything is more powerful ...

          the tornado will turn out
        4. The comment was deleted.
      2. dyksi
        dyksi 10 July 2015 15: 14
        +2
        By the way, the older brother of "Solntsepek", "Buratino", was called that because the test specimens had much longer guides for greater range and he really looked like Buratino, then this idea was abandoned.
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 10 July 2015 16: 15
          0
          Quote: dyksi
          the guides were much longer for longer range

          And how is the length of the guides related to the firing range ??? This is not a gun! request
          1. Wedmak
            Wedmak 10 July 2015 16: 29
            +1
            And how is the length of the guides related to the firing range ??? This is not a gun!

            With the same charge, a long and thin shell will fly further than a thick and short one. Frontal drag is less. And in flight, a long projectile is more stable than a short one.
            1. Bayonet
              Bayonet 10 July 2015 17: 07
              +1
              This is understandable, but where does the length of the GUIDELINES ???
              1. Wedmak
                Wedmak 10 July 2015 17: 27
                0
                GUIDE LENGTH

                Oh, that's what you mean. Of course, I'm not a very expert, but I think the length affects the stability of the flight. The rocket twists in flight. There is a pin on the rocket, on the guide groove. You won't make a very steep groove, there will be speed losses, so they lengthen the guide so that the rocket makes at least a full turn before leaving the "pipe".
                But it is, an assumption.
    3. serenja
      serenja 10 July 2015 23: 24
      +2
      Because it’s not MLRS, where 2/3 of the rocket is a solid fuel engine. TOS missiles have a massive warhead filled with liquid warfare, the engine occupies about 1/4 of the missile, hence the range. Yes, and the chassis is far from the Urals, there is nothing to compare with the Hurricane MAZ, I mean the length of the chassis base.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 10 July 2015 14: 27
    +4
    Found something to complain about. The chassis in this complex does not matter at all. From T-72 it just came out cheaper.
    And as for the dynamic armor, well, as if the TOCs should cover the tanks, this time. Secondly, the installation itself is not really a tank. Considering that in the 24 package on the roof, pipes stuffed with explosive mixture, and the whole package in full view, the absence of remote sensing on the chassis, this is far from the first significant thing.
    By the way, it’s real, what will happen if a missile from an ATGM gets into a package of charged guides? Fire?
  • Sukhoi
    Sukhoi 10 July 2015 14: 31
    +9
    We are armed with TOS-1 Pinocchio, if my memory serves me. This time.
    Secondly, in the presence of a huge quantity of T-72 it would be strange to deliver to the troops based on the T-90. And dynamic protection can be weighted any pepelats.
  • vagabo
    vagabo 10 July 2015 14: 32
    +7
    The chassis really does not play a fundamental role here. The widespread use of "Solntsepek", which is in service with the chemical defense troops, in a war against a "technological" enemy is hardly possible. But against ISIS - the very thing. We have what we did earlier at the base, which was then available. A newer version is now being shipped to Iraq, which customers have ordered. What is the bazaar for?
  • ALEA IACTA EST
    ALEA IACTA EST 10 July 2015 14: 32
    +1
    And the leadership of Azerbaijan should pay tribute - well done, they do not skimp on equipping the army.
    And stop chasing money is evil, and the latest military equipment is good. yes
    1. Tambov Wolf
      Tambov Wolf 10 July 2015 14: 43
      +4
      It can be evil for you, but for our "leaders" this is the same thing. Why should they buy yachts and huts in Courchevels and Florida for the poor. You may be sitting on potatoes, but they can’t "get it." caviar, cognac, whiskey, ham, otherwise how to "lead".
  • APASUS
    APASUS 10 July 2015 14: 35
    +6
    The problem is, as always, inflated. It looks like our rednecks from the Moscow Region have saved a little. And upgrading the car by adding additional protection in my opinion can be done freely without resorting to the help of aliens.
  • shans2
    shans2 10 July 2015 14: 41
    +7
    This is a weapon of mopping up and knocking out fortified points (As in Afghanistan and was used in the USSR). In general, not against some advanced army, against the advanced one you have to shoot from afar with thermobaric SMERCH.
  • 1aspid1
    1aspid1 10 July 2015 14: 44
    +6
    She just doesn’t need it on these machines. And the foreign customer wanted it, they hung it. If you pay for anything else, we’ll hang a New Year’s garland.
  • Aleksandr12
    Aleksandr12 10 July 2015 14: 46
    +3
    This criticism is not groundless, but initially, the design specification for the development, apparently, did not spell out an option for dynamic protection for the RA. TOS-1A is a "modernized" "Buratino", which was created just on the basis of the T-72. "Vestnik Mordovii" in vain makes a fuss, though not without reason, about the choice of a tank as a base for installation. T-90s have not been supplied to RA since the shaggy 90s. All these tanks go abroad. Until the T90 is supplied to the army, all TOSs will be based on the T72. Therefore, the criticism of the author of the article, on the one hand, is correct (why export technology is better), on the other hand, the customer in the person of the Ministry of Defense is apparently satisfied with this alignment. (since he not only pays money, but also develops tactics for using these machines). In my opinion, DZ on export "soltsepeks" is installed in order to rip off more money, and not to improve the security of the car.
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 10 July 2015 14: 50
    +4
    Crazy article. When creating the TOS "Buratino" (Solntsepek), it was originally implied and implied that it would be covered by more powerful weapons. Therefore, sculpting an expensive DZ on it is a waste of money, as well as sculpting them for the Russian army on an expensive T-90 chassis ...
    If you follow their logic, then the Tornado-G should be hung from top to bottom DZ.
  • Circuit breaker
    Circuit breaker 10 July 2015 15: 01
    +4
    Quote: Bridge
    Something control Rogozin did not prevent the mess at the construction site of the Vostochny cosmodrome.


    My friend works in the East. I don’t know about cuts and kickbacks, but about the hunger strike and non-payment of s / n - BOB. Everyone gets paid. There are delays, but not more than a week. I explain about hunger strikes and other heresy: One alcosaurus worked in the East, he was kicked out with pissed rags from the blue, and this Monsignor was very offended and decided to take revenge. I went to the local zhurnihlyulyam and letting down a tear I told them a terrible fable about inhuman working conditions and about hunger strikes and about the nonpayment of sn for months. Like this!! and don’t believe everything that is shown on the zombie viewer
  • Mercenary
    Mercenary 10 July 2015 15: 07
    -5
    Well, dill suffered from such nonsense, "Oplot". When they themselves have junk on the front lines. Now they are not alone. Traders from Oboronservis caught ukrop infection (probably sexually transmitted)?
  • VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 10 July 2015 15: 18
    -1
    Our misfortune-all my life abroad pushed the best, but to our own, what remains. But for the sale of better and more powerful weapons abroad, one must judge. For it in a roundabout way can begin to kill its creators.
  • Lawless
    Lawless 10 July 2015 15: 36
    +3
    We have a country of experts! And what is the difference between the T72 and the T90?! The chassis (?!) was installed from the T90, nonsense! And the customer could ask for dynamic protection, for a fee! Install on the decommissioned chassis? And where did they get it? !!! And mediocre admins and moderators copied, well done! Google to help, so I don’t know where Old can be spied ... Hi Naro-Fominsk ....
  • vagabo
    vagabo 10 July 2015 15: 37
    +2
    Quote: VNP1958PVN
    Our misfortune-all my life abroad pushed the best, but to our own, what remains. But for the sale of better and more powerful weapons abroad, one must judge. For it in a roundabout way can begin to kill its creators.


    Who told you that all the best abroad? Yes, the customer is now spoiled by an abundance of proposals, but for his army, not to say that always, but basically, there are modifications with higher characteristics. "Solntsepek" does not belong to the basic types of weapons in our army.
  • Yeraz
    Yeraz 10 July 2015 15: 51
    +5


    at 0:40 and especially at 1:00 Solntsepeki, a beautiful sight)
    1. Yeraz
      Yeraz 10 July 2015 15: 59
      0
      ahah minus for the video)))) yes there are a couple of my fans here)))
  • lukke
    lukke 10 July 2015 15: 54
    +4
    The Bulletin of Mordovia is certainly a powerful publication,) but I think the question is not relevant:
    1. The chassis is not the most important in the range of applications of the installation itself, and in our (T-72) case, it’s not the worst
    2. TTX cars suggest its use in very close contact with the enemy (by the standards of modern combat and types of weapons of developed countries), which means there is a huge probability of their losses, one wonders why Rolls-Royce, which is designed for 1-2 volleys, and further to scrap, if you're lucky?
    3. If the defense industry does not sell goods over a hill, we ourselves will ride on rarity for a long time, because economy and development at the state level is not a plan for a vegetable shop in Biryulyovo for a month.
    An article from a series of peasant magazine headings is like a hot topic, but essentially a soap bubble ...
    my little opinion)
  • Sasha75
    Sasha75 10 July 2015 16: 15
    +4
    Well, in the first place there is a real war, and I think everyone will agree with me on a normal training ground for testing new equipment and identifying weaknesses and strengths too. Secondly, and the old ones, how can they be thrown away, whether they have spare parts, we still do not have a war, and the main tank, for the most part, is not Armata and T90, but T 72 for the most part. Third, it’s no secret that the more If the factory makes them according to foreign orders, the cheaper it will cost us, and this is not a miserable fraction of a percent, but several times cheaper, up to 20, or even 25 percent of their current value. Yes, and we will sell them soon. We’ll see for ourselves, the war is such a thing, and it goes along the growing east is a delicate and long matter. And in the mass of piles of weapons that you can fight, without special education and training, only accelerated courses, and not for several years only we possess in large quantities, and only we can produce quickly.
    1. 31rus
      31rus 10 July 2015 21: 51
      0
      This is the right approach
  • NordUral
    NordUral 10 July 2015 16: 16
    +1
    Guys, don't worry so much. I think that in the event of a sudden attack by the Yankees, we will have no time for "sunshine". To fight off everything that will fly on our heads from all sides.
  • komendor
    komendor 10 July 2015 16: 20
    0
    And that it is impossible to control this machine in combat conditions remotely. It seems that there are no problems with this.
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 10 July 2015 16: 36
    +2
    Some kind of nonsense ... What’s the base here? Is that a tank?
  • afrikanez
    afrikanez 10 July 2015 16: 39
    +2
    Unclear. why such equipment, dynamic protection. It is equivalent to putting it on guns. Extra waste of money. sad
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 10 July 2015 17: 07
      +1
      Quote: afrikanez
      Unclear. why such equipment, dynamic protection. It is equivalent to putting it on guns. Extra waste of money.

      Then, due to the short range of fire, TOS often work directly in battle formations of infantry / tanks. 6 km is less than a 120 mm mortar.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 10 July 2015 17: 44
        +3
        If the fathers are commanders, then they can also drive the CBT into infantry battle formations. With a natural result in the form of consolidation of this machine.
  • indiggo
    indiggo 10 July 2015 17: 28
    +1
    Of course the sun is a very powerful weapon. but it’s not necessary to exaggerate it too much. all art without cover from the air doomed metal.
  • Straight
    Straight 10 July 2015 18: 00
    -4
    If they deliver abroad primarily and to their army last, this means they are thinking not about strengthening the country's defense capability, but about loot. But nothing surprising - we have a national idea now.
  • alone
    alone 10 July 2015 18: 26
    +4
    Not every state is capable of attacking Russia. Those who attack will use nuclear weapons. During a nuclear war, Solntsepek will have no difference what kind of chassis he has.
  • BARMEN628651
    BARMEN628651 10 July 2015 18: 35
    0
    Unsure that everything is so.
  • Barakuda
    Barakuda 10 July 2015 18: 50
    0
    I DO NOT SEE DIFFERENCES, I saw - destroyed. Yes, and ask the fighters - are they ready to approach such a distance ..? And do not shy away from every bullet.
    Let those who have no piss!
    Yes and Friday today smile
  • Barakuda
    Barakuda 10 July 2015 18: 56
    +2
    Quote: lonely
    NOT every state is able to attack Russia

    Let's just say absolutely nothing fool Well, self-liquidators, perhaps ..
    1. alone
      alone 10 July 2015 21: 39
      +6
      Quote: Barracuda
      Let's just say absolutely nothing Well self-destructors except that ..


      let's correct what was said. any attack on Russia, in the USA means the end of the universe.
      And if one of the two countries attacks each other, this means the end of the universe squared.

      Do not worry. Nobody will attack Russia. Yes and there is no reason. If you remember, the USSR was destroyed not by nuclear weapons, but by traitors. Be careful not of missiles, but of officials
  • dr.star75
    dr.star75 10 July 2015 19: 44
    +1
    Come on, don’t scare the men. If the salt chain was exported, then the sun is already on the pitch 2.
  • knifebot
    knifebot 10 July 2015 19: 48
    +1
    “The result, due to the lack of such protection, can be very sad if TOSs find themselves under the fire of anti-tank weapons of the enemy,” concludes the Herald of Mordovia.
    if this happens, they will not leave anywhere anyway, with or without dynamic defense, and fragments from artillery shells, which are the most likely striking element that they will encounter - they will withstand perfectly and on base 72, DZ is not an assistant here.
  • Crown
    Crown 10 July 2015 20: 51
    0
    It turns out it is designed to fight against bearded men? what
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 10 July 2015 21: 14
    0
    So what? So these parameters are enough to smash the enemy along the wall.
  • Dies Irae
    Dies Irae 10 July 2015 21: 24
    0
    There’s nothing to break the spears of, brothers.
    Remember, the new, mighty T-90 went into the series?
    So, just look at how much they received the Russian army, and how many were exported.
    Money doesn't smell. And officials in uniform and without absolutely give a damn about how many Russian guys in case of war will be burned alive in "boxes" due to the lack of armor sufficient by modern standards or the lack of dynamic protection.
    1. Raven
      Raven 12 July 2015 12: 44
      0
      how much? Well, write if you say .. there were 10? 50? 80? 800? 1500 ??? how much!? how beautiful to throw a cry and say "little" !!!!! how much is not enough? not to tell. then tell me how many Germans have the same Leopards 2a6 and 2a7 ??? Abrams in the maximum configuration (not the one that is linear for urban battles) ??? and compare how many T90 we have ???

      or for you if tanks less than 5000 were built, then this can not be considered? accustomed to quantity measured and on the quality, tactics of application forgotten.

      Anyone understands that the choice in favor of Armata instead of the T90 with the latest modifications is due to the fact that nothing new T90 was from itself - a replacement for electronics and other things it is just a replacement for the filling - nothing has changed conceptually ...
      so stop hysteria and how to repeat the mantra corruption corruption corruption ... if everything is so bad - crawl into the cemetery - tired of nagging ...
  • Valery T.
    Valery T. 10 July 2015 21: 37
    +2
    And what should they do on the battlefield? We have a BMP without dynamic protection, and - what? Do not ride the battlefield?
  • Paul
    Paul 10 July 2015 22: 08
    -1
    cars are divided into classes:
    Class A - small, most often purely urban cars, with a length not exceeding 3,8 and a width of 1,6 meters.
    Class B - small cars, one of the most popular and massive in the category of passenger cars.
    Class C, the so-called small middle class.
    Class D is positioned as medium, which means the recognition of cars in this category as the most optimal for the transport of goods and passengers.
    Class E is the highest in the medium category, a type of car that is favored by large businessmen, for which this type is often called the business class.
    Class F - powerful and exclusive cars are divided into two subclasses:
    F1 - expensive production cars, characterized by a high level of comfort and expensive materials. These include, for example, the Mercedes-Benz S-Class;
    F2 - cars of manual assembly, they probably should already be considered not as a means of transportation, but as a demonstration of the position and status of its owner. These are cars like Bentley, Ferrari, Lamborghini.
    Class G applies to a type of car with a coupe body, in this class there is a division into two groups:
    G1 - production cars (Kia Cerato Koup);
    G2 - piece work coupe, premium class (Aston Martin).
    Class H are roadsters and convertibles. As in other cases, there are two types of car:
    H1 - mass-produced (Audi A5 Cabriolet);
    H2 - manual elite assembly (Mercedes-Benz SL Class).
    Class K is SUVs, it is divided into subclasses:
    K1 - this type includes light SUVs, a variety of SUVs and crossovers. Best suited to minor off-road conditions, allow you to move freely in the city, as well as on broken and poorly cleared roads (Chevrolet Niva);
    K2 - medium SUVs, the most versatile type of car that allows you to move around the city and overcome not the most difficult dirt (Audi Q5);
    K3 - heavy SUVs. They serve to overcome any impassability, especially if the car is specially prepared for this (Mercedes-Benz GL class);
    K4 - pickups (Ford Ranger).
    Class L - minivans. They have the largest cabin from five to seven seats (Chevrolet Orlando).
    Class M - a small commercial type of car, divided into two subclasses:
    M1 - mini vans (Ford Transit Connect);
    M2 - light vans (Volkswagen Transporter);
    M3 - vans (Gazelle).
    So that's what I mean. TOS-1 "Buratino" with TOS-1M "Solntsepёk" drawing an analogy is the Class M1 and M2. but to put them on the base of "Armata" it will already be Class F2. here's a thought;) can anyone develop better)))
    1. Dies Irae
      Dies Irae 10 July 2015 22: 56
      +1
      Quote: Pavel
      So that's what I mean. TOS-1 "Buratino" with TOS-1M "Solntsepёk" drawing an analogy is the Class M1 and M2. but to put them on the base of "Armata" it will already be Class F2. here's a thought;) can anyone develop better)))


      And what is the point of putting the "Armata" - "Solntsepёk" on the platform?
      It is unlikely that he will benefit from this.
      1. Paul
        Paul 10 July 2015 23: 27
        +1
        Yes, I mean that there is no point in making a Bugatti Veron out of a workhorse. if there are thousands of chassis from the T-72 then it is necessary to use their motor resources to the full
        1. Dies Irae
          Dies Irae 10 July 2015 23: 38
          -1
          Quote: Pavel
          Yes, I mean that there is no point in making a Bugatti Veron out of a workhorse. if there are thousands of chassis from the T-72 then it is necessary to use their motor resources to the full


          That is, in our troops - the T-72 chassis, in foreign - the T-90 chassis, and this will be called "full use of the motor resource"? Why not the other way around, I beg your pardon?
          1. Paul
            Paul 10 July 2015 23: 53
            +3
            I'm not an expert in tank technology, but a quick look at the sites gives a picture that the T-72 and T-90 chassis are similar
            customer wants new! and decent grandmother pays for it and for these grandmothers it remains to upgrade our equipment, but in quantitative terms I don’t think that Pinocchio modules put on a chassis killed in the trash
          2. Raven
            Raven 12 July 2015 12: 48
            0
            come to the car dealership and say - would I have a Volvo XC90? but to you: yes, no, here we have the Samara freedoms — we will only sell them to you — you turn and leave ... or not?
            a foreign customer has the right to demand anything at least TOS based on gelendvagen ... - or he will go to another seller ... our army is also a customer. and she needs to think not only about how and on what basis to buy TOC ... but also about how to maintain nuclear weapons and a lot of things more and more and more ... and if instead of one TOC based on t-90, 3 TOS can be made based on canned t-72, then I just for. good
  • serenja
    serenja 10 July 2015 23: 14
    -1
    This is what would sell more expensive. Damn dz, if he should shoot from the rear? It would be nice if the sunshine were driven out for export with the new MSA, and so what is it to flog a fever?
  • si onist1
    si onist1 11 July 2015 00: 32
    -1
    Quote: GRAY
    Quote: sever.56
    What nonsense ... !!! Where does the government, the Ministry of Defense look ??? Or the loot of an eye overshadowed ???

    There, by the crew, overhead, 24 thermobaric logs. Dynamic protection will not help.

    Quote: Dies Irae
    Quote: Pavel
    So that's what I mean. TOS-1 "Buratino" with TOS-1M "Solntsepёk" drawing an analogy is the Class M1 and M2. but to put them on the base of "Armata" it will already be Class F2. here's a thought;) can anyone develop better)))


    And what is the point of putting the "Armata" - "Solntsepёk" on the platform?
    It is unlikely that he will benefit from this.

    Quote: lonely
    Not every state is capable of attacking Russia. Those who attack will use nuclear weapons. During a nuclear war, Solntsepek will have no difference what kind of chassis he has.

    and America is not going to attack Russia, the next war that is already underway, it will be a war of the West from the Isis which will break through to the Caucasus, the Caucasian Mujahideen have already sworn allegiance to the Isils
    1. serenja
      serenja 11 July 2015 06: 55
      0
      If the Mujahideen break through, then the West will arrive in time, and China will join at some point ("to preserve and protect the Russian people from Western aggressors," for example).
    2. Dies Irae
      Dies Irae 11 July 2015 07: 41
      0
      Quote: si onist1
      and America is not going to attack Russia, the next war that is already underway, it will be a war of the West from the Isis which will break through to the Caucasus, the Caucasian Mujahideen have already sworn allegiance to the Isils


      Personally, I don’t know what America is going to do, I think even America itself does not know this. For example, when Hitler attacked Poland in 1939, he also clearly did not assume that he would start WWII, most likely, he counted on getting away with it, like Austria or the Czech Republic ... so ...
  • Sibguest
    Sibguest 11 July 2015 09: 34
    0
    Quote: sever.56
    "Messenger of Mordovia"

    "Herald of Mordovia" is the most authoritative expert publication (apparently - in all areas of human activity).
  • Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 11 July 2015 13: 22
    0
    How do we all want to quickly modernize the armament of our army, put all the best .. But this is not a fairy tale, we also need money for this, and much more, but where to get it all at once?
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 11 July 2015 14: 12
    0
    Here is the transition to Armata and will allow us to modernize Solntsepek and increase the range of defeat and the speed of changing positions.