Neither the Russian people nor their rulers accept the role of the American litter

Neither the Russian people nor their rulers accept the role of the American litterEditor’s Note: Terra America continues to publish materials that reflect the reaction of the American expert community to Vladimir Putin’s nomination for the presidency of Russia in the next elections, as well as the fact that Putin-Medvedev has been castling. We offer the opportunity to express our position as an influential political figure in Washington - Adam Garfinklu, editor-in-chief of The American Interest. The magazine was created in 2005 with the help of people like Francis Fukuyama, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Joseph Joffe to cover issues of international politics, US foreign policy, and the strategic goals of American politics in general. The journal is rightfully considered to be one of the leading US periodicals, and the opinion of its editor-in-chief is undoubtedly an extremely authoritative reflection of the position of a part of the US ruling elite, which we present to our reader.


- Dear Mr. Garfinkl, what, in your opinion, will the reaction of Democrats and Republicans to news from Russia that Putin and Medvedev “swapped places”?

- Most people perceived the statement of your leaders not as a sensation, but as a formality. The response has already been - appropriate.

If we talk about some kind of interparty difference, and she, I repeat, is not great, the Republicans, perhaps, reacted to the changes in Russia more realistically, simply noting: “Well, Russia is like Russia; what changes could there be? To this, everything has gone in recent years, and it will go in the same vein for another eight or twelve years. ” Perhaps the Democrats, this news was to plunge into despair, given their inherent idealism. No wonder - Russia "missed the biggest chance since the fall of the communist regime"! They always react to such things emotionally. Republicans have better nerves.

At this stage, perhaps, where internal differences in the ranks of Republicans and Democrats are more important, they are no less significant than the external distinction between these two parties. Among the democrats, there are enough leftist-wing isolationists, who currently do not care about the rest of the world, because they are deeply concerned about the situation inside the country. They are opposed by traditional liberals, idealists, obsessed with the global export of democracy, but at the same time there is a certain percentage of traditional democrats, the hawks, whose views are more realistic.

Republicans have serious controversies over foreign policy. In the wing of John McCain, terry internationalists were concentrated, so to speak, to whom it does not occur that an excess of US involvement in international affairs (albeit from a position of strength), coupled with excessive military spending, ultimately to the detriment of our power.

Another wing was chosen by the Tea Party, whose position is close to isolationism. A striking example of an isolationist is Congressman Ron Paul. But many other Republicans believe that America is too expansive, that its ambitions exceed its capabilities, and so on. I repeat, these internal differences are no less important than inter-party ones.

- There is an opinion that it is more convenient for people from Russian special services to cooperate with Republicans. How true is this statement? If it is true, then how do you explain the apparent deterioration in US-Russian relations in the last years of Putin’s rule?

- As I have already said, Republicans are inclined to greater realism and look at the world calmly. They are business people and love to get things done. It is more comfortable for them to deal with one partner, if you like, with one reputable "owner" who will ensure that the transaction takes place - both in politics and in business. To the democrats, of course, the authoritarian style is sickening, their element is loud negotiations and fabrication of consensus, and equally in the United States and abroad. As a rule, democrats are less organized, less prepared, they neglect the business side, and it is not surprising that foreign leaders and officials (especially in Russia) prefer to deal with Republicans, seeing in them a lot in common.

I do not think that the noticeable weakening of ties between the United States and Russia in the last years of Putin’s and Bush’s rule is somehow related to their psychological differences. In my opinion, President Bush overestimated the importance of the personal factor in relations with Russia. What is worth one of his attempt to "look into the soul of Putin," as he deigned to put it. In addition, Putin, I think, very cleverly and very timely put on the neck a symbol of the Christian faith - it was an almost surefire way to circle the pious Bush around the finger, and it worked not only in Russia.

The obsession ended when Bush realized that personal sympathies could not replace the magnetic power of state interests, which every leader, of course, understands in different ways. And Bush understood this epiphany as a personal drama.

On the other hand, for Russia, more or less recovering from the collapse of the former system, this was a period of internal reconsolidation. Power without hesitation used patriotism as a lever to control public opinion, and the elite, feeling more comfortable, also changed the political vector, at least outwardly. The movements of Putin at that time eloquently made it clear to the Americans that the malleability of the Cold War was over forever. And Putin showed his courage very skillfully. The deeper Bush’s disappointment got, the more aggressive your president acted. Such a combination could not but affect the relations of the two countries.

Plus, well-known events also played their part, because something is constantly happening in the world. The new relations between our countries are the result of September 11, the war in Iraq, the result of Iran’s claims to leadership in the region, the result of what happened in Transnistria and Georgia. And the correspondence sympathy of the two leaders only slowed down the solution of all these accumulated problems. One entailed another. The Russian-American portfolio of negotiations more and more resembled a heap of insoluble contradictions, whose bitterness only aggravated the mutual understanding of the two leaders on a personal level. In my opinion this was the case. Talking about the attitude of Democrats and Republicans towards people from state security, I think, is not appropriate here.

- Before the war in Ossetia 2008, the ideological standoff between Russia and the USA was moderate - the Russians promoted the idea of ​​sovereign democracy, the Americans exported democracy to any end of the earth, both models were somewhat contradictory, but the level of tension was incomparably lower than during the Cold war or after xnumx. Is it worth it, in your opinion, to expect another recession of ideological tension?

“I do not think that the tension between the two countries in the Bush era is in any way connected with ideology.” The concept of "sovereign democracy" is nothing more than a demagogic device, invented to show that Russians have their own version of democracy, albeit incompatible with how Western politicians understand it. It was another slogan. I would not call it “ideology”, since it does not correspond to any actual ideology in our understanding of this term.

As for America, the period of strategic assistance to democracy (this is a short period) in the Middle East also only partially justified itself. The Bush administration actually rejected this political course when Bush again won the election. It is interesting to note that, according to the latest data from the Marshall Fund of Transatlantic Trends of Germany, the European public much more zealously supports the strategy of spreading democracy than the Americans. This is something new in international politics. But we also see the bitter fruits of this policy, the main purpose of which in the period from 2006 to 2008 was mainly the transformation of the Middle East. In general, by the end of Bush’s second term, the role of ideology in US-Russian relations was quite small.

And, as you rightly noted, now this factor, in fact, has been eliminated. Both America and Russia had their own reasons.

It seems to me that Vladimir Putin’s generation is nauseated tired of political abstractions with a Marxist-Leninist flavor. Cynical pragmatists with a great deal of personal experience justifying certain political steps, they live for today, driving your vast country. On the other hand, the USA is experiencing a crisis of the national soul.

The American establishment, especially the intelligentsia, is discouraged by a sharp sense of a certain fundamental error, but at the same time we do not know what exactly failed and how to fix it. So many things — culture, economics — have gone badly — that anxiety inevitably develops either into skepticism and denial, or, at least, the need to rethink the ideological tenets that have long been so inherent in Americans. So, the Russians at the moment have moved away from abstract systems "before exploring," while the Americans questioned the suitability of American abstractions, and there is much in common in this. It means that the sharpness of the ideological contradictions of the Cold War times was dulled, and their role in our relations lost its meaning as never before.

An important role, besides the personal qualities mentioned above, is played by the fact that both parties, trying to embrace the consequences of the cold war (especially its end), do not hear each other. The collapse of the USSR, the end of the bipolar system, which caused the gradual extinction of NATO, form a complex of interrelated phenomena with which both former adversaries cannot really cope, since they cannot really comprehend them. The collapse of empires and the change of systems takes time to figure them out. Such things cannot be settled over several years, and it may take decades to adequately understand them. Recall the fall of the Habsburgs or the Ottoman Empire after the First World War - debris hovered in the air for about twenty years.

The same with the Cold War - the dust has not settled. Therefore, an incomplete and incompatible understanding of this historical fact continues to aggravate relations between Russia and the United States. There is no full agreement on September 11, but, in my opinion, this is a trifle.

Let me remind you a number of details. At the beginning of 90, the Russian elite, especially Edward Shevardnadze, believed the promises of the United States, in particular, Secretary of State James Baker, that reunification of Germany using the 4 + 2 formula would not result in NATO expansion to the East, and, all the more, with the installation of NATO missiles. Perhaps they just heard it, or they didn’t understand the significance of these promises in a post-Soviet perspective. But then euphoria reigned.

And what really happened?

NATO has expanded three times, joining even the three former Soviet republics! From the American point of view (and here I express the opinion of a minority) this expansion of the military alliance was a monstrous mistake. America and its allies should behave in such a way that the subsequent rulers of Russia would recognize the territorial status quo of the end of the Cold War without harboring revanchist ambitions. It was necessary, following the advice of Churchill, to show magnanimity to the vanquished. But just this the United States did not. On the contrary, we in every way humiliated and weakened Russia, despite the sincerity of our assurances that the NATO expansion will not undermine the security of your country.

We never managed to understand that neither the Russian people nor their rulers would accept the role of the American litter. We don’t want to understand why the Russians don’t thank us for deliverance from communism, and the Russians are convinced that they themselves have rid of it, and in this I agree with them. Thus, a wide and multi-layered complex of misconceptions about the end of the Cold War and its consequences was formed. These misconceptions have become a colossal brake on the development of our relations. And ideology, again, has nothing to do with it.

- What is the meaning of the “reset” for the defense policy of Russia and the USA? Do you notice any changes? Did the reset help solve the missile defense problem in Europe? According to some Russian experts, this was worth serious concessions in Iran, to which she refused to sell the C-300 anti-aircraft guns ...

- For me, that “sovereign democracy”, that “reset” is nothing more than propaganda slogans. As a result of the reboot, nothing has changed significantly. Relations between the United States and Russia have not become better than they were before it, to a certain extent they have even deteriorated, due to the growth of authoritarian tendencies in Russian domestic politics. The new START agreement has neither military nor strategic significance - the number of reductions is purely symbolic. That's all the achievements.

The Obama administration, counting on Russia's help in Iraq and Afghanistan, was ready to make concessions, very significant ones, such as the refusal to deploy anti-missile components in the Czech Republic and Poland. According to the plan, it was supposed to promote the rapprochement of Moscow and Washington in the arms control negotiations, to silence the former resentment of the Russians, guaranteeing the conclusion of a deal on 95% concluded under the former president. In addition, you were offered to alleviate a number of trade and diplomatic difficulties regarding Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan ... but everything turned out somewhat differently.

The Russian government and its negotiators, as is customary in your country, in every way pulled the time, forcing our administration to pay the maximum price for everything.

All these are traditional diplomatic games, and Russian diplomats are also able to play them no worse than others. The Obama administration was impatient to receive dividends from its strategy of “engaging the Russians”; the White House did not expect them to delay the arms control negotiations in every possible way. True, in the end, the States were provided some assistance in Afghanistan, but very little.

Я I do not think that, for example, the refusal to supply Iran with C-300 can be considered a signal to reboot. The Russians were not even going to sell these systems to the Iranians, because by and large, the sale of these weapons is more dangerous for Russia than for us.

The cost to the United States was to deny the missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic, given that they had previously promised to place it there. The Poles reacted with indignation. In Poland, there was no anti-Americanism until 17 September 2009. When the Poles became aware of this decision, they perceived it as a stab in the back.

The irony is that the deployment of the missile defense system, which the president has been negotiating for so long (I don’t know whether it will happen now for technical and financial reasons) will really limit the effect of Russian short-range missiles in Europe, while the funds from which we refused, would not affect your military potential. And it was clear to the Russians from the very beginning.

It turns out that Moscow, in fact, lured Americans into a situation that, having caused irritation among the Poles, in parallel weakened the Russian missile power to a level not originally envisaged. Pretty funny, aren't you?
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  1. Banshee 22 October 2011 12: 53 New
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    "The magazine was created in 2005 with the help of people like Francis Fukuyama, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Joseph Joffe to cover issues of international politics, US foreign policy, and the strategic goals of American politics in general"

    There are few comments. Brzezinski's help is invaluable.

    “We never managed to understand that neither the Russian people nor their rulers would accept the role of the American litter.”

    Strange, right? But not that they should have been! Like this, they did not accept the fundamentals of democracy ... and why I still don’t see bombers in the sky?

    “We don’t want to understand why the Russians don’t thank us for getting rid of communism, and the Russians are convinced that they themselves have saved them, and in this I agree with them.”

    Oh, how ... so it was you? Wow...

    “The Obama administration, counting on Russia's help in Iraq and Afghanistan, was ready to make concessions, very significant ones, such as the refusal to deploy anti-missile components in the Czech Republic and Poland.”

    Yeah, they do not deploy missile defense, and instead of the States, we are starting to impose a cramocracy. Well, Afgan, we are scientists, and Iraq is not a gift. So yourself, dear ones, yourself. Ruin your technique, your soldiers, your loot. And we’ll come up with some crap in response to the missile defense system.

    “In addition, you were offered to alleviate a number of trade and diplomatic difficulties regarding Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan ... but everything turned out somewhat differently.”

    Nothing, ok. You worry about yourself, we are here somehow ourselves ...

    "I do not think that, for example, refusing to supply Iran with C-300 can be considered a signal to reboot. Russians were not going to sell these systems to Iranians, because by and large, the sale of these weapons is more dangerous for Russia than for us."

    Yes, Iran is our first enemy. We'll talk about it for the whole world ...

    "States cost dereliction of missile defense in Poland and the Czech Republic, given that they had previously promised to place it. The Poles reacted with outrage. In Poland there was no anti-Americanism before 17 September 2009. When the Poles became aware of this decision, they took it as a blow in the back."

    Oh, yes ... Poles straight all the people got enraged! Well, they dreamed about missile defense, could not live without it ... As my relatives wrote to me, "Thank God that it fell through, otherwise even if they had fired your missiles ..." And they were right in their own way. So, most likely, the Poles were outraged about their framing for the first blow, if that. Although they are about, and without reason, outraged.

    The last two paragraphs did not understand what.
    1. Sergh
      Sergh 23 October 2011 18: 02 New
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      Well, at least not on the topic, but on the occasion!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fb3m-1Hs0M
  2. sirToad
    sirToad 22 October 2011 12: 59 New
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    Moscow lured and weakened ... it looks like a complaint from an elderly womanizer. (and here also prostatitis, damn!)))
  3. Astartes 22 October 2011 13: 18 New
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    Gavnopendos the liberator, the Russian people will never agree to the role of litter, and the ruler, unfortunately, has long since caved in
  4. Millibyte 22 October 2011 13: 44 New
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    "... the US is in crisis of a national soul."

    Gee, what, the first meeting with reality does not correspond to Hollywood wisdom: "Bill, what will you do with your share of the stolen millions?" "Of course, Joe, I’ll buy the coolest car, the coolest crap, hire the coolest ice and go to lower the loot to Las Vegas!"

    National soul, of course - the mirror of the people!
  5. Tyumen
    Tyumen 22 October 2011 14: 13 New
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    Let us recall the fall of the Habsburgs or the Ottoman Empire after the First World War - the wreckage soared in the air for twenty years.

    The wreckage of the Russian Empire is still floating.
    Maybe they’ll get together.
  6. zczczc
    zczczc 22 October 2011 15: 04 New
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    Of the entire article, only the phrase "NATO has expanded three times, having joined even three former Soviet republics" is indisputable. Everything else is words.
  7. esaul 22 October 2011 15: 43 New
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    A funny impression of this article arises ... First, after reading the headline, “Wow! Yes, we are like that! Even amers reckon with this !!!”, and then, several times, returning to separate paragraphs, you understand - this is another cartoon on topic - "Himself a fool!" But, because a serious uncle, the brutal husband of Brzezinski and others like him, is cringing, the impression of a mature logical justification and blah, blah, blah ... The essence is that Russia itself is to blame for not understanding the noble impulses and body movements of Pindors : protect, save prevent ... The naive Pindosiks themselves were lured into stormy politics and are now blamed for something else. Now, if you sat quietly, you goggle, with delight, at all that x ... uncle turns from the ocean, then uncle would bring us gingerbread cookies and "we would be happy" to the very grave plaque.
  8. Evgeny Petrovich 22 October 2011 15: 52 New
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    The wreckage of the Russian Empire will gather !!! It is bad that with such a collection a lot of red liquid flows from the people.
  9. Evil Tatar
    Evil Tatar 22 October 2011 17: 42 New
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    The magazine was created in 2005 with the help of people such as Francis Fukuyama, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Joseph Joffe to cover issues of international politics, US foreign policy, and strategic goals of American politics in general.

    The listed persons are Farvest activists ...
    These persons are the first in the list of enemies of Russia!
    And their blah blah blah, together or singly, only shows their essence ...
    An interview with this BES with an extraordinary thinking and perverted subtext gives out their truly good intentions ...
    1. Ivan35
      Ivan35 22 October 2011 19: 31 New
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      I agree with Tatar and with Banshee and Esaul!
      This Garfinkle is still a warrior! Ah, poor Bush - the cunning Putin cheated on him by wearing a cross! You see the debris hanging in the air like from the Ottoman Empire - that is, it believes that our empire is over - like the Turkish one in its time! Nifiga like that! Lies! Turkish was artificial - the Turks conquered foreign lands! Our empire is eternal - if it broke up, it will gather again - because we (by and large) did not win anyone - exceptions in the very outskirts (Central Asia, the Baltic states and the Caucasus)
      Our peoples themselves merged into one family and remain in it. Integration is not a whim of Putin Lukashenko and Nazarbayev - for thousands of years the peoples lived together and will be another thousand years
      Analogies with the Habsburgs and Turks are inappropriate! - Yes, these Garfinkles are all sorts of things and they themselves know it and are afraid of it, and therefore they let in fog and give it what they wish for real
      1. Kyrgyz 22 October 2011 21: 06 New
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        The Caucasus was not conquered, he himself joined in parts, the Turks did not give them life
        1. Ivan35
          Ivan35 22 October 2011 21: 12 New
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          I had in mind the Caucasian wars of Russia - and so I agree - many joined - the Georgians are the same - both Ossetians and Armenians - and the Turks got out and Iran was still "not raised" then
  10. AleksUkr 22 October 2011 20: 48 New
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    Any opinion of friends and enemies needs to be studied and tried on for yourself. There are many interesting points in the article. Relations between Russia and the United States naturally worsened and will worsen, Americans are too abstruse and self-confident. Their country is bigger, better, stronger and shines with a certain stupidity. Exaggerated conceit. We have the opposite. Our valiant rotten intelligentsia suffers the opposite. We love to execute ourselves for everything and everyone. We love to repent to the whole world for acts that we did not commit. No shame or conscience. Especially for people like Svanidze and other riffraffers. We just don’t know our story, we don’t want to know. For many of ours , the so-called citizens of Russia, there is no word patriotism. Who saw that the Americans wear clothes with the symbols of Russia, and ours gladly cling to these rags, and they enthusiastically grind. Disgrace. And we still want to be respected in the world, or at least were considered.
  11. fellow misha 23 October 2011 12: 11 New
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    The American establishment, especially the intelligentsia, is discouraged by the keen sense of some fundamental error, but we don’t know what exactly is out of order and how to fix it. [/
    Your fundamental mistake is determined by two proverbs - "they don’t come to a strange monastery with their charter" and "do not open your mouth to a strange loaf."
  12. dimarm74
    dimarm74 23 October 2011 13: 00 New
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    Honestly, Mr. Amerikos said everything .....
    “We don’t want to understand why the Russians don’t thank us for getting rid of communism, and the Russians are convinced that they themselves have saved them, and in this I agree with them.”

    This phrase says a lot in fact, the most important thing is the recognition that the United States played a key role in the collapse of the USSR .... To us, Mr. Gorbachev and others like him (liberals of all stripes) tell us that the USSR was doomed, that the situation was catastrophic etc ..... that they say the collapse of the USSR was objective, etc. And the American elite honestly recognizes .. yes .. mole ... saved Russia from communism and we believe that this is our merit .....

    "We, on the contrary, humiliated and weakened Russia in every possible way, despite the sincerity of our assurances that NATO expansion would not undermine the security of your country."
    Also a very good quote ..... to all the freaks .... who claim that they say that NATO is not our enemy, etc. should read this Mr. .....
  13. Evil Tatar
    Evil Tatar 23 October 2011 14: 06 New
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    AlexUkr: Who saw, that Americans wear clothes with the symbols of Russia? And ours with pleasure cling to these rags, and with delight they grind ...

    Not only did I see, but for my husband’s husband myself, I ordered several T-shirts with the symbols of the USSR and Russia. A chic topic turned out, with a meaning ... On the back is the symbolism of the USSR. On the chest Russia. I didn’t expect it myself ...
    When she was a “guest” at home in the Russian Federation, she took five with her to the USA ...
    So she says that she wears without taking off, and local residents and friends are fooling around, asking where he got it, how to order ...
    So the simple American people who smell who is Russian are very respected ...
    1. esaul 23 October 2011 17: 18 New
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      Tatar, hello, dear! Listen - what you wrote is cool! There is only doubt that everyone there wears T-shirts with the symbols of Russia, exclusively, out of a sense of respect. Conjuncture, trend, fashion, joke ... Just like many of us, wearing a T-shirt with a star-and-stripes, they are not at all going to beat the pindostan. Interestingly, it is not so often that you can now see the Yusov symbolism in the vestments of youth. This is a positive TREND! In 90's, this coloring was more common. There are, of course, individual idiots who, having put on jeans, are filled with the courage of the “conquerors of the wild West”! ISCHO WOULD BE! They are now "of the same blood" with the dudes who lit a cigarette from the Colt! Now all the heifers are theirs! And yet, it is nice to see that young people, for the most part, crystallize a sense of pride in their country. Except, of course, for individual selects ..
      1. gAMauzer
        gAMauzer 23 October 2011 21: 05 New
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        If you want, you can classify me as an “individual choice *” (for young animals), but: where did you see this “crystallization of pride in your country”? And what can be proud of in this country? Stools? You?

        Just do not blame the historical past: the past - it is the past, and - most importantly - it is not THIS country, it is OTHER countries (Russia, Russia, the USSR - not Erefstana).

        And the place of Yuesov’s symbolism in the head was firmly taken by iPhones with Ford focuses. Diluted with yaga, grass, and early sexual intercourse. And this is, yes, just not a positive TREND.
        1. Evil Tatar
          Evil Tatar 24 October 2011 03: 23 New
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          Did you think you said the last word? Comrade, Mauser ...

          I am under 50 and the USSR is my past ... Although I am young!
          And the 90s of the Russian Federation (or how are you about the camp?) I also lived ...
          And then you pick the roe from your nose?
          And right now I fledged myself (I haven’t even matured yet ... Goofing around ...), and flooded you with judgments about someone else’s past ... Did you read the wrong books at school? Daria Dontsova and others like them ... But my parents did not explain, did not tell. Apparently there was nothing to tell ... Or are you an orphan?
          You, Mauser, so that Luser (oh) does not become, worry about your past ...
          Time will fly by very quickly, believe me.
          Honor Ostrovsky ...
          "... so that it would not be excruciatingly painful for aimlessly lived years" ...

          I assure you that we and Esaul, and such as we have something to be proud of ...
          Yes, that it’s me, you don’t understand one thing ...
          1. sirToad
            sirToad 24 October 2011 03: 30 New
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            assalam alaikum, angry kind man! I will support you! and I’ll say for myself - not everywhere and not all young people think in terms of iPhones and other crap. it all depends on the education and environment. My daughter is 15 years old. Bucks, of course. but he was surprised to find that her communication environment - “Coca-Cola is shit”, “smoking is only idiots”, etc. This is an excerpt from the exchange of opinions, I accidentally heard.
            1. esaul 24 October 2011 06: 24 New
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              Salute, sir! Your answer, once again, confirms the "positive trend"! I, too, did not rush off my conclusions. Two children themselves - 22's and 16's. And maybe something will push Mauser to take a closer look at his surroundings, after our words. Although, this is unlikely ... In this particular case, we are dealing with a difficult neglected case, colleague.
              1. sirToad
                sirToad 24 October 2011 06: 42 New
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                good morning, dear! and I'm talking about the same thing! By the way, I recently stumbled on an Internet interview with some current ne ... sorry, stars. He writes - I say, from Barnaul this is a town of this type Dolgoprudny - live alone - drunks, sedentary, etc. and they’re only listening to the chanson, I say, one was to the whole city who had a cassette with the recording of Patricia Kaas ... "It became just ridiculous I won’t say that there are two theaters in the city, etc. etc. etc. and then I just shrugged my shoulders - if you want dirt, you can always find it. I myself worked in the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the early nineties - after all, if the indicated lady lived in the "smartroom" behind the plants - and this was just my "ward" district - then she still she told the whole truth - the ambulance did not go there without PPS even during the day, and the bodies from the sewage treatment facilities were caught with enviable regularity. t - well, I’ll say that everything’s wrong - and what? don’t forgive me, the showman - so, the former cop. But what enta ne ... excuse me, socialite, even though it is printed in yellow, but it was replicated by the press. I talked with a lady from In Serbia, I found out where and said, “And this is where there are only murderers and maniacs!” (It turns out, I read the interview) that's such crap.
                1. Evil Tatar
                  Evil Tatar 24 October 2011 07: 01 New
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                  Yes, everywhere was "gloomy" in the 90s ... What can I say?
                  Echoes can still be heard ... Obviously, they are furious who in the 90s were not guarded ...
                  Interesting ... And what about Serbia? A quiet oasis in a raging sea?
                  Funny ...
                  1. sirToad
                    sirToad 24 October 2011 07: 14 New
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                    from Serbia, it’s just that I’ve got an adequate one - she loves Russian culture, but in the simplicity of her soul she decided that the yellow press is the mouthpiece of the people. Well, Dontsova also likes reading with others. but I kind of convinced her and advised other authors and sources to look.
          2. gAMauzer
            gAMauzer 24 October 2011 08: 39 New
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            Yes, you have something to be proud of.

            You are fifty now. So twenty years ago you were thirty.
            So you (like Esaul, and people like you) are one of those two hundred million that have ** sold the Union. And blame is not Tagged with EBN - and you, comrades, "although I am young!"

            ** Is it necessary to protect the country from the dirty pawns of greasy imperious fucking-ups - there’s nothing to moan, they say, "the youth wears a T-shirt with Yues symbols!" You are also sitting at the Yuesov model.

            If you then went to the barricades, you would look, and the USSR would be your REAL, and not the past. And you would be honored and respected by me (although, you do not need respect for an individual choice, right?). And not only to you, but to everyone who would go.

            But do not go. And therefore, you do not deserve honor or respect. This is especially true of the army - these can generally be called traitors (I'm not talking about those who went through Afghanistan and / or Chechnya - but they deserve respect for another war).

            So: I believe that you and Esaul - representatives of the generation of cowards and traitors - have something to remember. Namely, the way you put on your own chains and before the EBNom spread the red carpet to the Kremlin.

            So, don’t fuck up, got it? On yours, geeks, an opinion to look back - to insert sticks into wheels to itself. Live, and somehow we ourselves will figure out what and how to do.

            ps

            I read a lot of things at school. Even before Engels reached, "The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State." And most of all I love Mayakovsky, as you yourself understand. Especially the "Left March."
            1. sirToad
              sirToad 24 October 2011 08: 48 New
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              all - to * evil and I yeroy! I didn’t serve in the army and I won’t serve! and all but me are to blame for my troubles.
              1. gAMauzer
                gAMauzer 24 October 2011 08: 55 New
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                Firstly - you’re right, you didn’t serve in the army and I won’t serve - unfortunately, they don’t take them after a fool.

                Secondly - I did not blame anyone for MY troubles: I blamed you for your troubles (or am I wrong?).

                Thirdly: I am not a hero. And you are a goat, yes.
                1. sirToad
                  sirToad 24 October 2011 09: 00 New
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                  boor. snotty boor and also unlearned
                  1. gAMauzer
                    gAMauzer 24 October 2011 09: 02 New
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                    About ignorance - that's right.
                    The second course of extramural studies. Specialty: teacher of history and social studies.

                    True and about rudeness.
                    With resentment - went too far.
              2. aleks 24 October 2011 15: 52 New
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                whom did you surprise with — such Jews in Russia are not few — is that apparently the Russian trouble?
                1. sirToad
                  sirToad 24 October 2011 15: 58 New
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                  are you talking about
                  1. Evil Tatar
                    Evil Tatar 24 October 2011 16: 45 New
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                    He is about Mauser!

                    What do you take from him, Mauser?
                    He has a certificate, and one year in absentia ...
                    Historian, future. Teach-and-tel will be ...
                    Mmmmmmm ... Yes-ah-ah-ah-ah ...
                    For a long time in the wrong hands did not scum, nerd?

                    Better shoot yourself, snotty villain ... From the Mauser ...
                    You don’t have a future like you, moron.
                    1. sirToad
                      sirToad 24 October 2011 16: 48 New
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                      aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! and I sometimes say about the Yids at my own expense.
      2. Evil Tatar
        Evil Tatar 24 October 2011 03: 36 New
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        Greetings buddy, Esaul!
        The fact is that the one to whom there was a gift lived in Russia from 92 to 98.
        I took my wife with me. A real Russian woman ...
        A normal American ... Now he is sad in America because of a happy time spent in Russia ... I know that he does not see in his America what he experienced in Russia ...
        Fortunately, the wife is Russian, and the circle of friends corresponds ...
        And so ... Shit there, not life ...
        Ordinary people live about the same as everywhere else.
        But Mauser is sorry ... He defined himself.
        1. esaul 24 October 2011 06: 31 New
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          Tatar, hello buddy! I also have real examples from my life. In the 90's, when the majority in the country was shitty, several of my friends (family, not family) rushed over the hill. What unites them there is sadness in Russia. And about the life of ordinary people there, you are absolutely right. I shake my hand!
          1. Evil Tatar
            Evil Tatar 24 October 2011 07: 09 New
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            Yesaul too ...
            Friends, acquaintances, classmates sketched around the world ...
            In "Classmates" I see that everything seems to be fine, but between the lines of melancholy and sadness ... Nostalgia ...
            At the same time, some of those who departed have already returned, and another, according to rumors, would not be a bad thing ...
            On the other hand (like Zhirinovsky’s in the Baghdad video), there are already more than 10 million of ours in the USA alone + the same number of former Soviet republics ...
            And to Europe, and Israel?
            Tremble foes, the story is not over ...
            Russian riot in America, if that ... How do you like it?
            1. Banshee 24 October 2011 09: 32 New
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              The opinion of Mr. Mauser unfortunately has a place to be. And not only him. I encounter with enviable regularity.

              Yes, we can say that we pissed off the USSR. Yes, everything could be different in 1993. But you shouldn’t discount the fact that in those years there was a shortage of trees, everybody felt like a tank / armored car. And the question of obtaining reliable information was no less problematic than today. People simply were not ready for such a choice, they did not know HOW to do the right thing.

              Another question for the generation of the Mauser ... And what about you? Where are you? Not normally settled, there is someone to shove / dump is not the best position now, okay, our opinion can be in the toilet history, because the USSR pissed, And what are you? How are you planning to differ from us?

              How can you do it yourself? Well, well ... we'll see. There is a good proverb about teaching on one's own and others' mistakes. You don’t want to learn from ours (yes, you don’t really study at all), thank God that I obviously will not live to see the moment when you start learning from yours.
              1. sirToad
                sirToad 24 October 2011 09: 43 New
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                to be honest, they lifted up! at that time I honestly, honestly repeat, under the law and the oath, served in the Operational Battalion. completely - the whole of 1991 and the following - business trips. countrywide. fingers to bend to bend. Now - with the spine problems. like - there were no serious injuries but the armor and the sphere for 12 hours on myself - not honey. it’s easy to argue “yes I would ... to the barricades ...” yeah. and by the way, on August 19, I was in the service, a platoon on a divorce com said: "Rider, baked Yeltsin!" thought - yes, sintered. not in Moscow. indeed, information means a lot. It’s all about the information war now, and then who and what? I don’t feel any guilt before anyone. all the more so because the same shit at that time accompanied us on business trips with curses. they were sorry for the Balts, Caucasians and others who got rid of "Russian imperialism". easy to be a hero in the internet. you don’t even need to look into the eyes.
      3. zczczc
        zczczc 24 October 2011 17: 42 New
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        esaul, in the USA there are a lot of people who consider it the highest style to put on Russian earflaps, take out a lighter with a red star from your pocket, pull out a cigarette case with the inscription KGB and twist it. T-shirts, caps, etc. with our symbols from the same opera.

        There is no talk of any love for Russia, just entertainment. As we have the horns of the Teutons to pull on.
        1. esaul 27 October 2011 20: 25 New
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          Something you confused ZCZCZC, my friend! Read my posts and tell me where I am talking about people's love for Russia over the hill, expressed through Russian symbolism.
  14. mind1954
    mind1954 24 October 2011 02: 38 New
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    Rulers do not yet agree, but de facto act
    like a comprador bourgeoisie in a colony!
    They do not agree, and until when? Until everyone sells out
    mineral resources of the country!?
    And then, “good bye” and the people and the motherland, if they are the people, still
    they will not know before! "WILL BE!"
  15. dmb
    dmb 24 October 2011 10: 10 New
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    In vain you attacked the "gun". He is right in something. In 92, I suggested that a lieutenant colonel in Chechnya go with his regiment to Moscow. And he would have come and without a shot he came. But a career, a family. By the way, he has grown up to colonel general. But did not stay in the army.
    1. sirToad
      sirToad 24 October 2011 10: 22 New
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      but in some ways everyone is right. just why be rude? In our platoon, too, the opportunity was to dunk Yelkin. not fused. And the higher the person’s position, the more stopping factors. And career and family, and there are all sorts of garters with nishtyak, which is a pity to lose. But at the same time - before blaming anyone. come to the mirror. and what will you see there?
    2. esaul 24 October 2011 17: 20 New
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      DMB, history, offensively, is monotonous in terms of the causes and consequences of all kinds of social reforms! I have a White Guard novel in my library. Published on the basis of memoirs of officers (from junior officers to the generals) of the tsarist army. Among them, there are both “dyed” and “not dyed,” which ended their lives abroad. So, at the time of the October coup, only in Moscow, it was in forced demobilization (All peoples are brothers! Armies are not needed !!! - so the red agitators shouted), about 100 of thousands (!) Staff officers who could crush the riot in the bud . But, a total of about a third of this amount came to officer meetings. The rest found reasons to stay at home. Why I say, once again - for the accusers, "You were not there and you did not open your smelly mouth!" As a rule, whoever blames others the most is, in fact, himself a jerk!
      1. sirToad
        sirToad 24 October 2011 17: 32 New
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        about agitators: my grandfather (Ossetian) had a brother - I don’t remember exactly the sub or pro-teacher. He served in the Vladikavkaz infantry regiment (there later was the OVVKU) and even later - the headquarters of the OSG Ministry of Internal Affairs in the UK. and so he, the brother of grandfathers, campaigned for a company in which he served to go over to the side of the Bolsheviks. although, it would seem - in 25 years he would have been guaranteed nobility. And later he rose to the rank of colonel of the Ministry of State Security and was killed by the “freedom fighters” in 1949 in the mountains of the present Chechen Republic. Maybe, after all, not only crispy rolls - they were under the king?
        1. esaul 25 October 2011 19: 34 New
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          Sir, my friend, I did not interpret that under the king everything was in chocolate. As for the agitators - who can blame these guys for insincerity and falsity? They firmly believed in bright ideals and in the possibility of happiness for all. The tragedy is that a bunch of political swindlers cynically took advantage of them. A very sensible description of these crooks is given in “I have Honor” by Pikul, in the words of a white officer who sided with the Bolsheviks. And there were all kinds of tsarist officers ... There were those who ordered in Kronstadt that on the one side of the street only officers with their ladies were allowed to plan, and on the other “sailor”, and if the sailor violated this order, then he was a punishment cell! And there were those who went with their soldiers to the end, like General Samsonov, and did not consider it shameful to eat from one boiler with ordinary soldiers. At least, all these people whom you and I mentioned were dead beautifully and not aimlessly - for their ideas and their love. They were not bypassed with this gift, unlike the snotty "Comrade Revolver"! Best regards, esaul.
  16. 916-th
    916-th 24 October 2011 13: 51 New
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    sirToad:
    before you blame anyone. come to the mirror. and what will you see there?

    If our descendant “Mauser” approaches a normal mirror, not a crooked one, and looks at him meaningfully, and not with an empty look, then he will see that the previous generation, his fathers, and his grandfathers are behind him, and behind them are his great-grandfathers. And if, among other things, he picks up his son (or any other child, if he hasn't already), he will see the connection of generations, where he is an inextricable link, the connection between the past and the future of our people.

    And then, perhaps (it depends on parenting), he will understand that one cannot renounce the past, because without it there will be no future. Perhaps he will also understand that descendants should, by definition, be better than their ancestors, but not to credit it to themselves, realizing that they, so correct and decisive, did not appear here from a parallel reality.
    1. sirToad
      sirToad 24 October 2011 14: 32 New
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      I agree. recently heard the opinion of one youthful and ardent - de, in order to have a bright future, you need to drop the past (familiar, right?) but without the past there is no future or present, this is St. Augustine's conclusion. And each passes the roads of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers. when I was on a business trip in Ingushetia at night to me, the deceased grandfather often dreamed of him and I was civilian in the Caucasus and in CHON in the 20th in the same place and in the Patriotic War in the Elbrus region. and he had one question: "what are you guys doing?"
    2. esaul 27 October 2011 20: 29 New
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      "Ah! Farewell! Harasch said! Dzhigit!"
  17. 916-th
    916-th 24 October 2011 14: 50 New
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    sirToad:
    I don’t see dreams, but there is a feeling that the departed fathers and grandfathers are invisible with us.
  18. sirToad
    sirToad 24 October 2011 14: 59 New
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    and they are always invisible to us. from any position - what about the pagan (don’t hit the egg on the table - beat the great-grandfather on the forehead, didn’t you hear such a thing?) that from the Christian. that from the point of view of Russian cosmism - everyone becomes part of a single information field of the universe. And the position of denying the past is the very thing about which Dostoevsky has “demons”, it seems - since there is no god, then everything is possible.
    And since then I have not seen my grandfather anymore as I removed my epaulettes in 1995. and so he was always with me in the commandant’s office and on the block. behind the back.
    1. esaul 24 October 2011 16: 50 New
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      sir, my friend, you were in vain flushed from the words of this goldfinch! There will be too much honor for him! Learn from Tatarin, although he is evil, but - judicious! Mauser - he is a hero behind a computer, who grew up on his mother’s father’s neck, such an all-knowing denuncher and a fighter for bright ideals! Such goldfinches are now undergrowth, and this is a sign of stability and prosperity of this society at this stage of development! What is interesting, colleague, their "unifying zoological trait is a zoologically rabid reaction with copious salivation and inadequate reaction to stimuli that are a contradiction to their perception of the surrounding reality," among the people - "Crazy dog ​​- shit, whom to bite." I repeat - do not pay attention. With ardent greetings, esaul! wink "Do not throw a bisser in front of pigs," in my opinion, the ancient Romans put it this way. Ah, how well they said! And apparently 916 is right, - Mauser's parents missed something ...
      1. sirToad
        sirToad 24 October 2011 17: 05 New
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        Yes, I thought something like that. maybe he is still afraid of his dad. and you can rush at me (in the internet). on the street, I walk quietly at night - the thugs somehow bypass me. and here a miracle sits and stinks. Che has flushed up - I don’t know. nerves were to hell.
  19. gAMauzer
    gAMauzer 24 October 2011 17: 14 New
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    I earn a living as a janitor. And I don’t have and didn’t have a father (by the way, to the question of “tempora” and “mores”: fools who were ready to fuck with the first comer were also observed in your ardent USSR, not to mention the present).

    Who has a "zoologically rabid reaction" is a very controversial issue.
    And "scumbags circumvent" - a matter of luck. And you will never get around, and me.
    1. esaul 24 October 2011 17: 34 New
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      Ha! Hi colleague Mauser! In 80, I myself “hobbled” as a janitor - I had to feed my family, but I didn’t catch something. Apparently, the whole thing is in compliance with basic hygiene standards ... "... And you will be treated ..." - do you remember such a movie?
    2. Evil Tatar
      Evil Tatar 24 October 2011 17: 37 New
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      Damn, Mauser ...
      Once again I want to contact you.
      Why are you carrying any garbage?
      That is all rascals, cowards, etc. for you.
      USSR profucu.
      That you about times and morals swelled ...
      You call your mom and grandmother fools ...
      The whole world is based on carnal and spiritual love, otherwise you would have been born a jellyfish or a frog ...
      And I don’t sympathize with the fact that you don’t have a dad ... It’s a pity there was no one to teach you "intelligence", but at the same time respect for elders, and indeed for people.
      Mom apparently couldn’t ... She didn’t take it out.
      With such an insult in your head (mind you spit yourself), you will soon find yourself in a company of scumbags who definitely will not pass by you.
      They need such stray ones, and even with help ...
      Count up, a gangster with a higher pedagogical education ...
      Calm down, think ...
      Come back to talk calmly ....
      1. gAMauzer
        gAMauzer 24 October 2011 18: 03 New
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        It seems that I'm nervous (via the Internet, you can’t argue here, it's hard to scare)?
        And about the "think": Yesaul diagnosed at me, simultaneously with the presence of rabies, the absence of the "thinker" itself.

        Comrados, there are three of you here (I announce the whole list, please: Esaul, Evil Tatar, SirToad) adults, all with an army behind.

        Are you completely blind? Or see the unknown third eye? Well, where, where, WHERE, in the tail and in the mane, do you see that "a sense of respect for the Motherland crystallizes among young people"? Where do you see in Russian MODERNITY (yes, leave you alone history, finally, where does the youth have historical knowledge ?!) is something worthy of respect? Show me this marvelous marvel. WHERE IS IT?

        He is not here. No, I’ll give it to the bite, NO, by letters: Н-Е-Т.

        But meanwhile, somewhere up there, he inserted his remark of Banshee, who, with all my “love” for him, looks at the youth much more OBJECTIVELY - and sees almost nothing except g * vna.

        And he is right! I declare to you with all responsibility a piece of this very g * vna, directly from its thick.

        And here you are looking for "individual you *** dkov." What are "individual"? A generation (and more than one) you *** dkov paces the streets of this country. And above them (and you, “although I’m still young!”) Is dominated by the full-time bando-oligarchic clique of m * Dacians whom you deigned to take to power.

        And now, these two masses of shit are swaying somewhere below, smelly, but harmless.

        "The Russian people will never reconcile ..." This "Russian people", by and large, has long been up to a damn who and what is doing over him (even to you, since you are sitting and I don’t do anything *). And just the same, whoever stands above him - EBN, GDP, DAM or B. Hu. O. (Bama).

        And here are examples of "We care!" - look at the "cultural" mother in Europe, Europe: scholarships with pensions have been lowered - crowds of people go out into the streets, a lawless policeman slammed a suspected kid during detention - crowds of people storm the institutions and put forward demands. And they are being implemented.
  20. gAMauzer
    gAMauzer 24 October 2011 18: 10 New
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    The fact is that we - youth - shit, and you - old people - shit.

    And we will only stir (ONLY) when we start burning red-hot scrap in f * ck.

    More precisely, it can be stirred: you are a bit old (although one is still young here!), And to us - if TREND is to our liking.

    That's the whole story.

    And it’s high time to pass Alexander Samsonov with his sermons to the polyclinic for experiments. "The Russian people - the Messianic" ... P ** dec ... Drunk, torn, ** f and the remnants of hard workers and intellectuals, preserved after the collapse of the Sovka - "messianic people" ... P ** dec ...
    1. esaul 25 October 2011 19: 40 New
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      Boy, sorry for you! Choke soon in your shit. It’s for you E: T
  21. Evil Tatar
    Evil Tatar 24 October 2011 18: 30 New
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    Damn you, Mauser.
    Why are you so restless?
    What are you calling for?
    Well, you are a future historian, and although only in your second year, it is time to know the words of the classic: - "there is nothing worse than the Russian rebellion, meaningless and merciless ..."
    You don’t worry much, otherwise we’ll sleep ...
    Krovushki, I feel, we’re still choking with excitement, with people like you howls ...
    Thank God there are adequate youth and there are many more ...
    Go Moysha, OH Mauser, popey ko-o-ofe, calm-o-th ...
    And then you will give% pu to the torn to pieces (you should), you still have ahead ...
  22. gAMauzer
    gAMauzer 24 October 2011 18: 37 New
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    I know the words of a classic.
    And to that I urge.
    For ** alo, understand?

    "Thank God there are adequate youth and there are many more ..."

    Really?
    Number? Habitats? Reveal / passwords?

    In PM.
    I’ll go to be torn to pieces. Fuck you. At the same time, I’ll look at what “adequate youth” is doing now (do they really read books?).
    Quite seriously.
  23. Uncle Sam
    Uncle Sam 24 October 2011 23: 38 New
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    "Neither the Russian people, nor its rulers will not accept ...." Th drive what over the past 100 years with which only the Russian people did not accept ....
  24. esaul 26 October 2011 07: 12 New
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    "I am tormented by vague doubts" about the sexual orientation of Mauser. Something he often “shakes” with his ass, “waves”. Oh, this is not good, brothers! Here, apparently, in what way he picked up the infection ...
    1. sirToad
      sirToad 26 October 2011 08: 00 New
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      and you look, that on this occasion old Freud interpreted NPR. in the "psychology of the unconscious."
  25. gAMauzer
    gAMauzer 26 October 2011 16: 18 New
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    "Old Freud" said that "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

    I don’t even want to comment on this.