Neither the Russian people nor their rulers accept the role of the American litter

65
Neither the Russian people nor their rulers accept the role of the American litterEditor’s Note: Terra America continues to publish materials that reflect the reaction of the American expert community to Vladimir Putin’s nomination for the presidency of Russia in the next elections, as well as the fact that Putin-Medvedev has been castling. We offer the opportunity to express our position as an influential political figure in Washington - Adam Garfinklu, editor-in-chief of The American Interest. The magazine was created in 2005 with the help of people like Francis Fukuyama, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Joseph Joffe to cover issues of international politics, US foreign policy, and the strategic goals of American politics in general. The journal is rightfully considered to be one of the leading US periodicals, and the opinion of its editor-in-chief is undoubtedly an extremely authoritative reflection of the position of a part of the US ruling elite, which we present to our reader.

- Dear Mr. Garfinkl, what, in your opinion, will the reaction of Democrats and Republicans to news from Russia that Putin and Medvedev “swapped places”?

- Most people perceived the statement of your leaders not as a sensation, but as a formality. The response has already been - appropriate.

If we talk about some kind of interparty difference, and she, I repeat, is not great, the Republicans, perhaps, reacted to the changes in Russia more realistically, simply noting: “Well, Russia is like Russia; what changes could there be? To this, everything has gone in recent years, and it will go in the same vein for another eight or twelve years. ” Perhaps the Democrats, this news was to plunge into despair, given their inherent idealism. No wonder - Russia "missed the biggest chance since the fall of the communist regime"! They always react to such things emotionally. Republicans have better nerves.

At this stage, perhaps, where internal differences in the ranks of Republicans and Democrats are more important, they are no less significant than the external distinction between these two parties. Among the democrats, there are enough leftist-wing isolationists, who currently do not care about the rest of the world, because they are deeply concerned about the situation inside the country. They are opposed by traditional liberals, idealists, obsessed with the global export of democracy, but at the same time there is a certain percentage of traditional democrats, the hawks, whose views are more realistic.

Republicans have serious controversies over foreign policy. In the wing of John McCain, terry internationalists were concentrated, so to speak, to whom it does not occur that an excess of US involvement in international affairs (albeit from a position of strength), coupled with excessive military spending, ultimately to the detriment of our power.

Another wing was chosen by the Tea Party, whose position is close to isolationism. A striking example of an isolationist is Congressman Ron Paul. But many other Republicans believe that America is too expansive, that its ambitions exceed its capabilities, and so on. I repeat, these internal differences are no less important than inter-party ones.

- There is an opinion that it is more convenient for people from Russian special services to cooperate with Republicans. How true is this statement? If it is true, then how do you explain the apparent deterioration in US-Russian relations in the last years of Putin’s rule?

- As I have already said, Republicans are inclined to greater realism and look at the world calmly. They are business people and love to get things done. It is more comfortable for them to deal with one partner, if you like, with one reputable "owner" who will ensure that the transaction takes place - both in politics and in business. To the democrats, of course, the authoritarian style is sickening, their element is loud negotiations and fabrication of consensus, and equally in the United States and abroad. As a rule, democrats are less organized, less prepared, they neglect the business side, and it is not surprising that foreign leaders and officials (especially in Russia) prefer to deal with Republicans, seeing in them a lot in common.

I do not think that the noticeable weakening of ties between the United States and Russia in the last years of Putin’s and Bush’s rule is somehow related to their psychological differences. In my opinion, President Bush overestimated the importance of the personal factor in relations with Russia. What is worth one of his attempt to "look into the soul of Putin," as he deigned to put it. In addition, Putin, I think, very cleverly and very timely put on the neck a symbol of the Christian faith - it was an almost surefire way to circle the pious Bush around the finger, and it worked not only in Russia.

The obsession ended when Bush realized that personal sympathies could not replace the magnetic power of state interests, which every leader, of course, understands in different ways. And Bush understood this epiphany as a personal drama.

On the other hand, for Russia, more or less recovering from the collapse of the former system, this was a period of internal reconsolidation. Power without hesitation used patriotism as a lever to control public opinion, and the elite, feeling more comfortable, also changed the political vector, at least outwardly. The movements of Putin at that time eloquently made it clear to the Americans that the malleability of the Cold War was over forever. And Putin showed his courage very skillfully. The deeper Bush’s disappointment got, the more aggressive your president acted. Such a combination could not but affect the relations of the two countries.

Plus, well-known events also played their part, because something is constantly happening in the world. The new relations between our countries are the result of September 11, the war in Iraq, the result of Iran’s claims to leadership in the region, the result of what happened in Transnistria and Georgia. And the correspondence sympathy of the two leaders only slowed down the solution of all these accumulated problems. One entailed another. The Russian-American portfolio of negotiations more and more resembled a heap of insoluble contradictions, whose bitterness only aggravated the mutual understanding of the two leaders on a personal level. In my opinion this was the case. Talking about the attitude of Democrats and Republicans towards people from state security, I think, is not appropriate here.

- Before the war in Ossetia 2008, the ideological standoff between Russia and the USA was moderate - the Russians promoted the idea of ​​sovereign democracy, the Americans exported democracy to any end of the earth, both models were somewhat contradictory, but the level of tension was incomparably lower than during the Cold war or after xnumx. Is it worth it, in your opinion, to expect another recession of ideological tension?

“I do not think that the tension between the two countries in the Bush era is in any way connected with ideology.” The concept of "sovereign democracy" is nothing more than a demagogic device, invented to show that Russians have their own version of democracy, albeit incompatible with how Western politicians understand it. It was another slogan. I would not call it “ideology”, since it does not correspond to any actual ideology in our understanding of this term.

As for America, the period of strategic assistance to democracy (this is a short period) in the Middle East also only partially justified itself. The Bush administration actually rejected this political course when Bush again won the election. It is interesting to note that, according to the latest data from the Marshall Fund of Transatlantic Trends of Germany, the European public much more zealously supports the strategy of spreading democracy than the Americans. This is something new in international politics. But we also see the bitter fruits of this policy, the main purpose of which in the period from 2006 to 2008 was mainly the transformation of the Middle East. In general, by the end of Bush’s second term, the role of ideology in US-Russian relations was quite small.

And, as you rightly noted, now this factor, in fact, has been eliminated. Both America and Russia had their own reasons.

It seems to me that Vladimir Putin’s generation is nauseated tired of political abstractions with a Marxist-Leninist flavor. Cynical pragmatists with a great deal of personal experience justifying certain political steps, they live for today, driving your vast country. On the other hand, the USA is experiencing a crisis of the national soul.

The American establishment, especially the intelligentsia, is discouraged by a sharp sense of a certain fundamental error, but at the same time we do not know what exactly failed and how to fix it. So many things — culture, economics — have gone badly — that anxiety inevitably develops either into skepticism and denial, or, at least, the need to rethink the ideological tenets that have long been so inherent in Americans. So, the Russians at the moment have moved away from abstract systems "before exploring," while the Americans questioned the suitability of American abstractions, and there is much in common in this. It means that the sharpness of the ideological contradictions of the Cold War times was dulled, and their role in our relations lost its meaning as never before.

An important role, besides the personal qualities mentioned above, is played by the fact that both parties, trying to embrace the consequences of the cold war (especially its end), do not hear each other. The collapse of the USSR, the end of the bipolar system, which caused the gradual extinction of NATO, form a complex of interrelated phenomena with which both former adversaries cannot really cope, since they cannot really comprehend them. The collapse of empires and the change of systems takes time to figure them out. Such things cannot be settled over several years, and it may take decades to adequately understand them. Recall the fall of the Habsburgs or the Ottoman Empire after the First World War - debris hovered in the air for about twenty years.

The same with the Cold War - the dust has not settled. Therefore, an incomplete and incompatible understanding of this historical fact continues to aggravate relations between Russia and the United States. There is no full agreement on September 11, but, in my opinion, this is a trifle.

Let me remind you a number of details. At the beginning of 90, the Russian elite, especially Edward Shevardnadze, believed the promises of the United States, in particular, Secretary of State James Baker, that reunification of Germany using the 4 + 2 formula would not result in NATO expansion to the East, and, all the more, with the installation of NATO missiles. Perhaps they just heard it, or they didn’t understand the significance of these promises in a post-Soviet perspective. But then euphoria reigned.

And what really happened?

NATO has expanded three times, joining even the three former Soviet republics! From the American point of view (and here I express the opinion of a minority) this expansion of the military alliance was a monstrous mistake. America and its allies should behave in such a way that the subsequent rulers of Russia would recognize the territorial status quo of the end of the Cold War without harboring revanchist ambitions. It was necessary, following the advice of Churchill, to show magnanimity to the vanquished. But just this the United States did not. On the contrary, we in every way humiliated and weakened Russia, despite the sincerity of our assurances that the NATO expansion will not undermine the security of your country.

We never managed to understand that neither the Russian people nor their rulers would accept the role of the American litter. We don’t want to understand why the Russians don’t thank us for deliverance from communism, and the Russians are convinced that they themselves have rid of it, and in this I agree with them. Thus, a wide and multi-layered complex of misconceptions about the end of the Cold War and its consequences was formed. These misconceptions have become a colossal brake on the development of our relations. And ideology, again, has nothing to do with it.

- What is the meaning of the “reset” for the defense policy of Russia and the USA? Do you notice any changes? Did the reset help solve the missile defense problem in Europe? According to some Russian experts, this was worth serious concessions in Iran, to which she refused to sell the C-300 anti-aircraft guns ...

- For me, that “sovereign democracy”, that “reset” is nothing more than propaganda slogans. As a result of the reboot, nothing has changed significantly. Relations between the United States and Russia have not become better than they were before it, to a certain extent they have even deteriorated, due to the growth of authoritarian tendencies in Russian domestic politics. The new START agreement has neither military nor strategic significance - the number of reductions is purely symbolic. That's all the achievements.

The Obama administration, counting on Russia's help in Iraq and Afghanistan, was ready to make concessions, very significant ones, such as the refusal to deploy anti-missile components in the Czech Republic and Poland. According to the plan, it was supposed to promote the rapprochement of Moscow and Washington in the arms control negotiations, to silence the former resentment of the Russians, guaranteeing the conclusion of a deal on 95% concluded under the former president. In addition, you were offered to alleviate a number of trade and diplomatic difficulties regarding Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan ... but everything turned out somewhat differently.

The Russian government and its negotiators, as is customary in your country, in every way pulled the time, forcing our administration to pay the maximum price for everything.

All these are traditional diplomatic games, and Russian diplomats are also able to play them no worse than others. The Obama administration was impatient to receive dividends from its strategy of “engaging the Russians”; the White House did not expect them to delay the arms control negotiations in every possible way. True, in the end, the States were provided some assistance in Afghanistan, but very little.

Я I do not think that, for example, the refusal to supply Iran with C-300 can be considered a signal to reboot. The Russians were not even going to sell these systems to the Iranians, because by and large, the sale of these weapons is more dangerous for Russia than for us.

The cost to the United States was to deny the missile defense system in Poland and the Czech Republic, given that they had previously promised to place it there. The Poles reacted with indignation. In Poland, there was no anti-Americanism until 17 September 2009. When the Poles became aware of this decision, they perceived it as a stab in the back.

The irony is that the deployment of the missile defense system, which the president has been negotiating for so long (I don’t know whether it will happen now for technical and financial reasons) will really limit the effect of Russian short-range missiles in Europe, while the funds from which we refused, would not affect your military potential. And it was clear to the Russians from the very beginning.

It turns out that Moscow, in fact, lured Americans into a situation that, having caused irritation among the Poles, in parallel weakened the Russian missile power to a level not originally envisaged. Pretty funny, aren't you?
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  1. +8
    22 October 2011 12: 53
    "The magazine was created in 2005 with the help of people like Francis Fukuyama, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Joseph Joffe to cover international politics, US foreign policy strategy, and the strategic goals of American politics in general."

    There are few comments. Brzezinski's help is invaluable.

    "We have failed to understand that neither the Russian people, nor its rulers will accept the role of the American litter."

    Strange, right? But not that they should have been! Like this, they did not accept the fundamentals of democracy ... and why I still don’t see bombers in the sky?

    "We do not want to understand why the Russians do not thank us for getting rid of communism, and the Russians are convinced that they themselves got rid of it, and in this I agree with them."

    Oh, how ... so it was you? Wow...

    "The Obama administration, counting on Russia's assistance in Iraq and Afghanistan, was ready to make very significant concessions, such as refusing to deploy anti-missile components in the Czech Republic and Poland."

    Yeah, they are not deploying missile defense systems, and we are starting to "impose crap democracy" instead of the States. Well, we are scientists with Afgan, and Iraq is not a gift. So yourself, dear ones, yourself. Crush your equipment, your soldiers, your loot. And we will come up with some kind of crap in response to missile defense.

    "In addition, you have been offered to ease a number of trade and diplomatic difficulties regarding Iran, Iraq and Afghanistan ... but everything turned out a little differently."

    Nothing, ok. You worry about yourself, we are here somehow ourselves ...

    "I do not think that, for example, the refusal to supply Iran with S-300 can be considered a signal for a reset. The Russians were not going to sell these systems to the Iranians anyway, because, by and large, the sale of these weapons is more dangerous for Russia than for us."

    Yes, Iran is our first enemy. We'll talk about it for the whole world ...

    “It was costly for the United States to abandon missile defense in Poland and the Czech Republic, given that they had previously promised to deploy there. The Poles reacted with indignation. There was no anti-Americanism in Poland until September 17, 2009. When the Poles became aware of this decision, they took it as a blow in the back."

    Oh yeah ... The Poles just got mad with all the people! Well, they dreamed of missile defense, they could not live without it ... As my relatives wrote to me, "Thank God that it fell through, otherwise if they would have raked it with your own missiles ..." And they were right in their own way. So the Poles were rather indignant at putting them under the first blow, if that. Although they are indignant about and without reason.

    The last two paragraphs did not understand what.
    1. Sergh
      -1
      23 October 2011 18: 02
      Well, at least not on the topic, but on the occasion!

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fb3m-1Hs0M
  2. sirToad
    +2
    22 October 2011 12: 59
    Moscow lured and weakened ... it looks like a complaint from an elderly womanizer. (and here also prostatitis, damn!)))
  3. +5
    22 October 2011 13: 18
    Gavnopendos the liberator, the Russian people will never agree to the role of litter, and the ruler, unfortunately, has long since caved in
  4. +3
    22 October 2011 13: 44
    "... the USA is experiencing a crisis of the national soul."

    Gee, what, the very first encounter with reality does not correspond to the Hollywood wisdom: "Bill, what will you do with your share of the stolen millions?" "Of course, Joe, I'll buy the coolest car, the coolest crap, hire the coolest ice and go to Las Vegas to drop the loot!"

    National soul, of course - the mirror of the people!
  5. Tyumen
    0
    22 October 2011 14: 13
    Let us recall the fall of the Habsburgs or the Ottoman Empire after the First World War - the wreckage soared in the air for twenty years.

    The wreckage of the Russian Empire is still floating.
    Maybe they’ll get together.
  6. zczczc
    +1
    22 October 2011 15: 04
    Of the entire article, only the phrase "NATO has expanded threefold, including even three former Soviet republics" is indisputable. Everything else is words.
  7. +1
    22 October 2011 15: 43
    A funny impression from this article arises ... First, after reading the headline, "Wow! Yes, we are! Even amers take this into account !!!", and then, several times, returning to separate paragraphs, you understand - this is another cartoon on topic - "The fool himself!" But, because a serious uncle, a foster child of Brzezinski and others like him, is kalyakat, the impression of a mature rationale is created and blah, blah, blah ... But the point is that Russia itself is to blame, that it does not understand the noble impulses and gestures of the pindors : protect, save prevent ... Themselves lured naive Pindos in a stormy politics and now they are accused of something else. Now, if they sat quietly, goggling, with delight, at everything that x ... twirls the uncle from across the ocean, then the uncle would bring us gingerbread and "it would be happiness for us" to the very grave.
  8. -2
    22 October 2011 15: 52
    The wreckage of the Russian Empire will gather !!! It is bad that with such a collection a lot of red liquid flows from the people.
  9. Evil Tatar
    +5
    22 October 2011 17: 42
    The magazine was created in 2005 with the help of people such as Francis Fukuyama, Zbigniew Brzezinski and Joseph Joffe to cover issues of international politics, US foreign policy, and strategic goals of American politics in general.

    The listed persons are Farvest activists ...
    These persons are the first in the list of enemies of Russia!
    And their blah blah blah, together or singly, only shows their essence ...
    An interview with this BES with an extraordinary thinking and perverted subtext gives out their truly good intentions ...
    1. Ivan35
      +6
      22 October 2011 19: 31
      I agree with Tatar and with Banshee and Esaul!
      This Garfinkle is still a warrior! Ah, poor Bush - the cunning Putin cheated on him by wearing a cross! You see the debris hanging in the air like from the Ottoman Empire - that is, it believes that our empire is over - like the Turkish one in its time! Nifiga like that! Lies! Turkish was artificial - the Turks conquered foreign lands! Our empire is eternal - if it broke up, it will gather again - because we (by and large) did not win anyone - exceptions in the very outskirts (Central Asia, the Baltic states and the Caucasus)
      Our peoples themselves merged into one family and remain in it. Integration is not a whim of Putin Lukashenko and Nazarbayev - for thousands of years the peoples lived together and will be another thousand years
      Analogies with the Habsburgs and Turks are inappropriate! - Yes, these Garfinkles are all sorts of things and they themselves know it and are afraid of it, and therefore they let in fog and give it what they wish for real
      1. +1
        22 October 2011 21: 06
        The Caucasus was not conquered, he himself joined in parts, the Turks did not give them life
        1. Ivan35
          0
          22 October 2011 21: 12
          I meant the Caucasian wars of Russia - and I agree - many joined - the Georgians are the same - both the Ossetians and the Armenians - and the Turks got it and Iran was not yet "raised"
  10. +1
    22 October 2011 20: 48
    Any opinion of friends and enemies needs to be studied and tried on for yourself. There are many interesting points in the article. Relations between Russia and the United States naturally worsened and will worsen, Americans are too abstruse and self-confident. Their country is bigger, better, stronger and shines with a certain stupidity. Exaggerated conceit. We have the opposite. Our valiant rotten intelligentsia suffers the opposite. We love to execute ourselves for everything and everyone. We love to repent to the whole world for acts that we did not commit. No shame or conscience. Especially for people like Svanidze and other riffraffers. We just don’t know our story, we don’t want to know. For many of ours , the so-called citizens of Russia, there is no word patriotism. Who saw that the Americans wear clothes with the symbols of Russia, and ours gladly cling to these rags, and they enthusiastically grind. Disgrace. And we still want to be respected in the world, or at least were considered.
  11. 0
    23 October 2011 12: 11
    The American establishment, especially the intelligentsia, is discouraged by the keen sense of some fundamental error, but we don’t know what exactly is out of order and how to fix it. [/
    Your fundamental mistake is determined by two proverbs - "they don't come to someone else's monastery with their own charter" and "don't open your mouth to someone else's loaf."
  12. dimarm74
    -1
    23 October 2011 13: 00
    Honestly, Mr. Amerikos said everything .....
    "We do not want to understand why the Russians do not thank us for getting rid of communism, and the Russians are convinced that they themselves got rid of it, and in this I agree with them."

    This phrase says a lot in fact, the most important thing is the recognition that the United States played a key role in the collapse of the USSR .... To us, Mr. Gorbachev and others like him (liberals of all stripes) tell us that the USSR was doomed, that the situation was catastrophic etc ..... that they say the collapse of the USSR was objective, etc. And the American elite honestly recognizes .. yes .. mole ... saved Russia from communism and we believe that this is our merit .....

    "On the contrary, we humiliated and weakened Russia in every possible way, despite the sincerity of our assurances that NATO expansion will not undermine the security of your country in any way."
    Also a very good quote ..... to all the freaks .... who claim that they say that NATO is not our enemy, etc. should read this Mr. .....
  13. Evil Tatar
    -5
    23 October 2011 14: 06
    AlexUkr: Who saw, that Americans wear clothes with the symbols of Russia? And ours with pleasure cling to these rags, and with delight they grind ...

    Not only did I see, but for my husband’s husband myself, I ordered several T-shirts with the symbols of the USSR and Russia. A chic topic turned out, with a meaning ... On the back is the symbolism of the USSR. On the chest Russia. I didn’t expect it myself ...
    When she was "visiting" at home in the Russian Federation, she took five pieces with her to the USA ...
    So she says that she wears without taking off, and local residents and friends are fooling around, asking where he got it, how to order ...
    So the simple American people who smell who is Russian are very respected ...
    1. -4
      23 October 2011 17: 18
      Tatar, hello, dear! Listen - it's cool what you wrote! Only there are doubts that everyone there is wearing T-shirts with the symbols of Russia, solely out of a sense of respect. Conjuncture, trend, fashion, funny ... Just like with us, many, wearing a T-shirt with a minke, are by no means going to bow to Pindostan. Interestingly, it is not so often now that you can see Yusov symbolism in the vestments of young people. This is a positive TRAND! In the 90s, this coloring was more common. There are, of course, some idiots who, having put on jeans, are filled with the courage of the "conquerors of the Wild West"! ISHSHO - WOULD! They are now "of the same blood" with the dudes who lit a cigarette from the "Colt"! Now all the chicks are theirs! And yet, it is nice to see that the young animals, in the bulk, crystallize a sense of pride in their country. Except, of course, for individual choices.
      1. gAMauzer
        -4
        23 October 2011 21: 05
        If you want, you can rank me as a "separate selection" (for young animals), but: where did you see this "crystallization of the feeling of pride in your country"? And what can you be proud of in THIS country? Storetkin? You?

        Just do not blame the historical past: the past - it is the past, and - most importantly - it is not THIS country, it is OTHER countries (Russia, Russia, the USSR - not Erefstana).

        And the place of Yuesov’s symbolism in the head was firmly taken by iPhones with Ford focuses. Diluted with yaga, grass, and early sexual intercourse. And this is, yes, just not a positive TREND.
        1. Evil Tatar
          -6
          24 October 2011 03: 23
          Did you think you said the last word? Comrade, Mauser ...

          I am under 50 and the USSR is my past ... Although I am young!
          And the 90s of the Russian Federation (or how are you about the camp?) I also lived ...
          And then you pick the roe from your nose?
          And right now I fledged myself (I haven’t even matured yet ... Goofing around ...), and flooded you with judgments about someone else’s past ... Did you read the wrong books at school? Daria Dontsova and others like them ... But my parents did not explain, did not tell. Apparently there was nothing to tell ... Or are you an orphan?
          You, Mauser, so that Luser (oh) does not become, worry about your past ...
          Time will fly by very quickly, believe me.
          Honor Ostrovsky ...
          "... so that it would not be excruciatingly painful for the years spent aimlessly" ...

          I assure you that we and Esaul, and such as we have something to be proud of ...
          Yes, that it’s me, you don’t understand one thing ...
          1. sirToad
            0
            24 October 2011 03: 30
            assalam aleikum, an angry kind man! support you! And I’ll say on my own - not everywhere and not all young people think in terms of iPhones and other crap. it all depends on the upbringing and environment. The daughter himself is 15 years old. Bucks up, of course. but I was surprised to find that her communication environment - "Coca-cola is shit", "they smoke - only idiots", etc. these are excerpts from an exchange of views, overheard by chance.
            1. -4
              24 October 2011 06: 24
              Salute, sir! Your answer, once again, confirms the "positive trend"! I, too, did not write off my conclusions from the ceiling. He himself has two children - 22 and 16 years old. And maybe something will push Mauser to take a closer look at his surroundings, after our words. Although, this is unlikely ... In this particular case, we are dealing with a severe neglected case, colleague.
              1. sirToad
                0
                24 October 2011 06: 42
                good morning dear! and I mean the same! By the way, I recently came across an interview in the internet for a certain current ne ... sorry, stars. He writes - I say, from Barnaul this is a town of this type of Dolgoprudny - there are only one - drunks, sedentary, etc. and they only listen to chanson, I say, there was one for the whole city who had a cassette with a recording by Patricia Kaas ... "It just became ridiculous, I won't say that there are two theaters in the city, etc., etc. and then I just shrugged my shoulders - if you want dirt - you can always find it. I myself worked in the Ministry of Internal Affairs in the early nineties, but if the lady in question lived in a "cheeky" behind factories - and this was just my "ward" area - then she is not she told the whole truth - the ambulance did not go there without the accompaniment of the PPS even during the day, and the bodies from the treatment facilities were caught with an enviable regularity.the current, well, I’ll say that everything is wrong - and what? enta ne ... sorry, secular lioness, she says it, though in yellow, but it was replicated in the press. I talked with a lady from Serbia, found out where she came from and said, "and this is where there are some murderers and maniacs!" (it turns out, I read the interview) crap.
                1. Evil Tatar
                  -5
                  24 October 2011 07: 01
                  Yes, everywhere it was "gloomy" in the 90s ... What to say?
                  Echoes can still be heard ... Obviously, they are furious who in the 90s were not guarded ...
                  Interesting ... And what about Serbia? A quiet oasis in a raging sea?
                  Funny ...
                  1. sirToad
                    0
                    24 October 2011 07: 14
                    from Serbia, it’s just that I’ve got an adequate one - she loves Russian culture, but in the simplicity of her soul she decided that the yellow press is the mouthpiece of the people. Well, Dontsova also likes reading with others. but I kind of convinced her and advised other authors and sources to look.
          2. gAMauzer
            -4
            24 October 2011 08: 39
            Yes, you have something to be proud of.

            You are fifty now. So twenty years ago you were thirty.
            This means that you (like Esaul, and people like you) are one of those two hundred million who have ** a Union. And it's not Tagged with EBN that is to blame - but you, comrades, "although I'm young!"

            Is it a must ** to protect the country from the dirty paws of fat power bastards - there is nothing to moan, they say, "the youth wear a T-shirt with Yuesov's symbols!" You are now also sitting at the Yuesov model with a computer.

            If you then went to the barricades, you would look, and the USSR would be your REAL, and not the past. And you would be honored and respected by me (although, you do not need respect for an individual choice, right?). And not only to you, but to everyone who would go.

            But do not go. And therefore, you do not deserve honor or respect. This is especially true of the army - these can generally be called traitors (I'm not talking about those who went through Afghanistan and / or Chechnya - but they deserve respect for another war).

            So: I believe that you and Esaul - representatives of the generation of cowards and traitors - have something to remember. Namely, the way you put on your own chains and before the EBNom spread the red carpet to the Kremlin.

            So, don’t fuck up, got it? On yours, geeks, an opinion to look back - to insert sticks into wheels to itself. Live, and somehow we ourselves will figure out what and how to do.

            ps

            I read a lot at school. I even got to Engels, "The Origin of the Family, Private Property and the State." And most of all I love Mayakovsky, as you yourself understand. Especially "Left March".
            1. sirToad
              0
              24 October 2011 08: 48
              all - to * evil and I yeroy! I didn’t serve in the army and I won’t serve! and all but me are to blame for my troubles.
              1. gAMauzer
                -4
                24 October 2011 08: 55
                Firstly - you’re right, you didn’t serve in the army and I won’t serve - unfortunately, they don’t take them after a fool.

                Secondly - I did not blame anyone for MY troubles: I blamed you for your troubles (or am I wrong?).

                Thirdly: I am not a hero. And you are a goat, yes.
                1. sirToad
                  0
                  24 October 2011 09: 00
                  boor. snotty boor and also unlearned
                  1. gAMauzer
                    -4
                    24 October 2011 09: 02
                    About ignorance - that's right.
                    The second course of extramural studies. Specialty: teacher of history and social studies.

                    True and about rudeness.
                    With resentment - went too far.
              2. -1
                24 October 2011 15: 52
                whom did you surprise with — such Jews in Russia are not few — is that apparently the Russian trouble?
                1. sirToad
                  -1
                  24 October 2011 15: 58
                  are you talking about
                  1. Evil Tatar
                    -7
                    24 October 2011 16: 45
                    He is about Mauser!

                    What do you take from him, Mauser?
                    He has a certificate, and one year in absentia ...
                    Historian, future. Teach-and-tel will be ...
                    Mmmmmmm ... Yes-ah-ah-ah-ah ...
                    For a long time in the wrong hands did not scum, nerd?

                    Better shoot yourself, you snotty scoundrel ... From the "Mauser" ...
                    You don’t have a future like you, moron.
                    1. sirToad
                      -1
                      24 October 2011 16: 48
                      aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! and I sometimes say about the Yids at my own expense.
      2. Evil Tatar
        -6
        24 October 2011 03: 36
        Greetings buddy, Esaul!
        The fact is that the one to whom there was a gift lived in Russia from 92 to 98.
        I took my wife with me. A real Russian woman ...
        A normal American ... Now he is sad in America because of a happy time spent in Russia ... I know that he does not see in his America what he experienced in Russia ...
        Fortunately, the wife is Russian, and the circle of friends corresponds ...
        And so ... Shit there, not life ...
        Ordinary people live about the same as everywhere else.
        But Mauser is sorry ... He defined himself.
        1. -4
          24 October 2011 06: 31
          Tatar, hello buddy! I also have real examples from my life. In the 90's, when the majority in the country was shitty, several of my friends (family, not family) rushed over the hill. What unites them there is sadness in Russia. And about the life of ordinary people there, you are absolutely right. I shake my hand!
          1. Evil Tatar
            -7
            24 October 2011 07: 09
            Yesaul too ...
            Friends, acquaintances, classmates sketched around the world ...
            In "Odnoklassniki" I see that everything seems to be fine, but between the lines longing and sadness ... Nostalgia ...
            At the same time, some of those who departed have already returned, and another, according to rumors, would not be a bad thing ...
            On the other hand (like Zhirinovsky's in the "Baghdad" video), there are already more than 10 million of ours in the United States alone + the same number from the former Soviet republics ...
            And to Europe, and Israel?
            Tremble foes, the story is not over ...
            Russian riot in America, if that ... How do you like it?
            1. -1
              24 October 2011 09: 32
              The opinion of Mr. Mauser unfortunately has a place to be. And not only him. I encounter with enviable regularity.

              Yes, we can say that we pissed off the USSR. Yes, everything could be different in 1993. But you shouldn’t discount the fact that in those years there was a shortage of trees, everybody felt like a tank / armored car. And the question of obtaining reliable information was no less problematic than today. People simply were not ready for such a choice, they did not know HOW to do the right thing.

              Another question for the generation of the Mauser ... And what about you? Where are you? Not normally settled, there is someone to shove / dump is not the best position now, okay, our opinion can be in the toilet history, because the USSR pissed, And what are you? How are you planning to differ from us?

              How can you do it yourself? Well, well ... we'll see. There is a good proverb about teaching on one's own and others' mistakes. You don’t want to learn from ours (yes, you don’t really study at all), thank God that I obviously will not live to see the moment when you start learning from yours.
              1. sirToad
                0
                24 October 2011 09: 43
                to be honest, they pulled up! At that time, I honestly, I repeat honestly, within the framework of the law and oath, served in the Operational Battalion. solid - all 1991 and subsequent - business trips. countrywide. bend your fingers. now - problems with the spine. it seems - there were no serious injuries, but the armor and the sphere for 12 hours on itself - not honey. easy to argue "yes I would ... on the barricades ..." yeah. And by the way, on August 19, I was in the service, a platoon lump at the divorce says: "Rider, Yeltsin is baked!" thought - yes, baked. not in Moscow. indeed, information means a lot. This is now all rattling about information war, and then - who and what? I do not feel any guilt towards anyone. all the more so that the same assholes at that time saw us off on business trips with curses. they felt sorry for the Balts, Caucasians and others who got rid of "Russian imperialism". it's easy to be a hero in the internet. you don't even need to look in the eyes.
      3. zczczc
        -1
        24 October 2011 17: 42
        esaul, in the USA there are a lot of people who consider it the highest style to put on Russian earflaps, take out a lighter with a red star from your pocket, pull out a cigarette case with the inscription KGB and twist it. T-shirts, caps, etc. with our symbols from the same opera.

        There is no talk of any love for Russia, just entertainment. As we have the horns of the Teutons to pull on.
        1. -5
          27 October 2011 20: 25
          Something you confused ZCZCZC, my friend! Read my posts and tell me where I am talking about people's love for Russia over the hill, expressed through Russian symbolism.
  14. mind1954
    -1
    24 October 2011 02: 38
    The rulers do not agree so far, but "de facto" act
    like a comprador bourgeoisie in a colony!
    They do not agree, and until when? Until everyone sells out
    mineral resources of the country!?
    And then, "good bye" and the people and the Motherland, if they are the people, more
    before that they will not get rid of! "THERE WILL BE!"
  15. dmb
    -1
    24 October 2011 10: 10
    In vain you pounced on the "pistol". He's right about something. In 92, I suggested that a lieutenant colonel in Chechnya go with my regiment to Moscow. And he would have made it without a shot. But career, family. By the way, he has grown up to colonel-general. But he did not stay in the army.
    1. sirToad
      -1
      24 October 2011 10: 22
      but in some ways everyone is right. just why be rude? In our platoon, too, the opportunity was to dunk Yelkin. not fused. And the higher the person’s position, the more stopping factors. And career and family, and there are all sorts of garters with nishtyak, which is a pity to lose. But at the same time - before blaming anyone. come to the mirror. and what will you see there?
    2. -5
      24 October 2011 17: 20
      DMB, history, to the point of offensive, is monotonous in terms of the causes and consequences of all kinds of social reforms! In my library there is a series "White Guard Novel". Published on the basis of the memoirs of officers (from junior officers to generals) of the tsarist army. Among them there are both "painted" and "not painted" who ended their lives abroad. So, at the time of the October coup, only in Moscow, was in forced demobilization (All peoples are brothers! The army is not needed !!! - so shouted the red agitators), about 100 thousand (!) Career officers who could crush the riot in the bud ... But, in total, about a third of this number came to the officers' meetings. The rest found reasons to stay at home. Why do I say, once again - for the accusers, "You were not there and it is not for you to open your stinking mouth!" As a rule, whoever blames others the most is himself, in fact, a nonentity!
      1. sirToad
        -1
        24 October 2011 17: 32
        about agitators: my grandfather (an Ossetian) had a brother - I don’t remember exactly what was or was a mischief-maker. served in the Vladikavkaz Infantry Regiment (there was later OVVKU) and even later - the headquarters of the OSG Ministry of Internal Affairs in the UK. and so he, the brother of the grandfathers, agitated the company in which he served to go over to the side of the Bolsheviks. although it would seem that in 25 years he would have been guaranteed the nobility. And later he rose to the rank of colonel of the Ministry of State Security and was killed by "freedom fighters" in 1949 in the mountains of the present Chechen Republic. Maybe, after all, not only crispy rolls - they were with the king?
        1. -5
          25 October 2011 19: 34
          Sir, my friend, I did not even interpret that under the king everything was in chocolate. As for the agitators, who can accuse these guys of insincerity and falsehood? They firmly believed in bright ideals and the possibility of happiness for everyone. The tragedy is that a handful of political swindlers cynically used them. And a very sensible description of these rascals is given in Pikul's "I Have the Honor", in the words of a white officer who went over to the side of the Bolsheviks. And among the tsarist officers there were all sorts of ... There were those who ordered in Kronstadt that only officers with their ladies have the right to fly along one side of the street, and a "sailor" on the other, and if a sailor violated this order, then a punishment cell! And there were those who walked with their soldiers to the end, like General Samsonov, and did not consider it shameful to eat from the same pot with the privates. At least, all these people, whom you and I have remembered, died beautifully and not aimlessly - for their ideas and their love. They were not bypassed by this gift, unlike the snotty "comrade revolver"! Regards, esaul.
  16. 916-th
    +1
    24 October 2011 13: 51
    sirToad:
    before you blame anyone. come to the mirror. and what will you see there?

    If our descendant "Mauser" approaches a normal mirror, not a crooked one, and looks into it meaningfully, and not with an empty gaze, then he will see that behind him is the previous generation, his fathers, and behind them are his grandfathers, and behind them are his great-grandfathers. And if, among other things, he picks up his son (or any other child, if his own is not yet), then he will see the connection between generations, where he is an indissoluble link, the connection between the past and the future of our people.

    And then, perhaps (it depends on parenting), he will understand that one cannot renounce the past, because without it there will be no future. Perhaps he will also understand that descendants should, by definition, be better than their ancestors, but not to credit it to themselves, realizing that they, so correct and decisive, did not appear here from a parallel reality.
    1. sirToad
      -1
      24 October 2011 14: 32
      I agree. recently I heard an opinion from a young and ardent one - de, in order to have a wonderful future, one must discard the past (familiar, isn't it?) but without the past there is neither future nor present, this is still Augustine the Blessed. And everyone goes along the paths of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers. When I was on a business trip in Ingushegia at night, my deceased grandfather often dreamed about me and a civilian in the Caucasus and in ChON in the 20s in the same place and in the Patriotic War in the Elbrus region. and he had one question: "what are you guys doing?"
    2. -5
      27 October 2011 20: 29
      "Ay! Goodbye! Kharascho said! Dzhigit!"
  17. 916-th
    -1
    24 October 2011 14: 50
    sirToad:
    I don’t see dreams, but there is a feeling that the departed fathers and grandfathers are invisible with us.
  18. sirToad
    0
    24 October 2011 14: 59
    and they are always invisible with us. from any position - what about the pagan (do not hit the egg on the table - you hit your great-grandfather on the forehead - have you heard such a thing?) and what about the Christian. that from the point of view of Russian cosmism - everyone becomes part of a single information field of the universe. And the position of denying the past is the very thing about which Dostoevsky's "demons" seem to be - since there is no God, then everything is possible.
    And since then I have not seen my grandfather anymore as I removed my epaulettes in 1995. and so he was always with me in the commandant’s office and on the block. behind the back.
    1. -5
      24 October 2011 16: 50
      sir, buddy, you shouldn't have flared up at the words of this goldfinch! Too much honor for him! Learn from the Tatar, although he is evil, but reasonable! Mauser - he is a hero at the computer, who grew up on his mother's and father's neck, such an all-knowing exposer and fighter for bright ideals! Such goldfinches have now bred, and this is a sign of stability and well-being of THIS society at this stage of development! Interestingly, colleague, their "common zoological feature is a zoologically frenzied reaction with abundant salivation and an inadequate response to stimuli that contradict their perception of the surrounding reality", popularly - "Mad dog - fuck who to bite". I repeat - do not pay attention. With ardent greetings, esaul! wink "You should not throw a bead in front of pigs" in my opinion, the ancient Romans put it that way. Oh, how well they said! And apparently the 916th is right - Mauser's parents missed something ...
      1. sirToad
        -1
        24 October 2011 17: 05
        Yes, I thought something like that. maybe he is still afraid of his dad. and you can rush at me (in the internet). on the street, I walk quietly at night - the thugs somehow bypass me. and here a miracle sits and stinks. Che has flushed up - I don’t know. nerves were to hell.
  19. gAMauzer
    -3
    24 October 2011 17: 14
    I earn my living as a janitor. And I don't have and never had a father (by the way, on the question of "tempora" and "mores": fools ready to fuck with the first comer, were observed in your ardent USSR, not to mention the present day).

    Who has a "zoologically frenzied reaction" here is a very controversial question.
    And "thugs bypass" - a matter of luck. And you someday will not be bypassed, and me.
    1. -6
      24 October 2011 17: 34
      Ha! Hello colleague Mauser! In the 80s, I myself "jiggled" as a janitor - the family had to be fed, but I didn't catch the rabies. Apparently, it's all about the observance of elementary hygiene standards ... "... And you will be cured ..." - do you remember such a film?
    2. Evil Tatar
      -9
      24 October 2011 17: 37
      Damn, Mauser ...
      Once again I want to contact you.
      Why are you carrying any garbage?
      That is all rascals, cowards, etc. for you.
      USSR profucu.
      That you about times and morals swelled ...
      You call your mom and grandmother fools ...
      The whole world is based on carnal and spiritual love, otherwise you would have been born a jellyfish or a frog ...
      And that you don't have a dad - I sympathize ... It's a pity there was no one to teach you "wisdom", and at the same time respect for elders, and indeed for people.
      Mom apparently couldn’t ... She didn’t take it out.
      With such an insult in your head (mind you spit yourself), you will soon find yourself in a company of scumbags who definitely will not pass by you.
      They need such stray ones, and even with help ...
      Count up, a gangster with a higher pedagogical education ...
      Calm down, think ...
      Come back to talk calmly ....
      1. gAMauzer
        -3
        24 October 2011 18: 03
        It seems that I'm nervous (via the Internet, you can’t argue here, it's hard to scare)?
        And about "think": Esaul diagnosed me, along with the presence of rabies, the absence of the actual "thinker".

        Comrados, there are three of you here (I announce the whole list, please: Esaul, Evil Tatar, SirToad) adults, all with an army behind.

        And are you completely blind? Or see with an unknown third eye? Well, where, where, WHERE, in the tail and in the mane, do you see that "a sense of respect for the Motherland is crystallizing among the youth"? Where do you see something worthy of respect in the Russian MODERNITY (let alone history, finally, where did the youth get their historical knowledge ?!)? Show me this wondrous thing. WHERE IS IT?

        He is not here. No, I’ll give it to the bite, NO, by letters: Н-Е-Т.

        And meanwhile, somewhere up there, Banshee inserted his remark above, who, for all my "love" for him, looks at the youth much more OBJECTIVELY - and sees almost nothing but g * vn.

        And he is right! I declare to you with all responsibility a piece of this very g * vna, directly from its thick.

        And here you are looking for "individual you *** dkov". Which "individual"? A generation (and more than one) of you *** dkov is walking the streets of this country. And over them (and you, "although I am still young!") Is dominated by the full-time gang-oligarchic clique of m * daks whom you deigned to let to power.

        And now, these two masses of shit are swaying somewhere below, smelly, but harmless.

        "The Russian people will never reconcile ..." This "Russian people", by and large, has long ago given a damn about who and what is doing over him (even you, since you are sitting and not doing a shit). And in the same way, give a damn about who stands over him - EBN, VVP, LADIES or B. Hu. O. (bama).

        And here are examples of "We care!" - look at "cultured" Europe, her mother: the scholarships and pensions were lowered - crowds of people take to the streets, a lawless policeman slammed a suspected kid during his arrest - crowds of people are storming institutions and putting forward demands. And they are being fulfilled.
  20. gAMauzer
    -4
    24 October 2011 18: 10
    The fact is that we - youth - shit, and you - old people - shit.

    And we will only stir (ONLY) when we start burning red-hot scrap in f * ck.

    More precisely, it can be stirred: you are a bit old (although one is still young here!), And to us - if TREND is to our liking.

    That's the whole story.

    And it is high time for Alexander Samsonov with his sermons to be taken to the clinic for experiments. "The Russian people are messianic" ... P ** dec ... Drunk, rags, s ** n and the remnants of hard workers and intellectuals, preserved after the collapse of the Sovka - "messianic people" ... P ** dec ...
    1. -5
      25 October 2011 19: 40
      Boy, sorry for you! Choke soon in your shit. It’s for you E: T
  21. Evil Tatar
    -9
    24 October 2011 18: 30
    Damn you, Mauser.
    Why are you so restless?
    What are you calling for?
    You are a future historian, and although only in the second year, it is time to know the words of the classic: - "There is nothing more terrible than the Russian rebellion, senseless and merciless ..."
    You don’t worry much, otherwise we’ll sleep ...
    Krovushki, I feel, we’re still choking with excitement, with people like you howls ...
    Thank God there are adequate youth and there are many more ...
    Go Moysha, OH Mauser, popey ko-o-ofe, calm-o-th ...
    And then you will give% pu to the torn to pieces (you should), you still have ahead ...
  22. gAMauzer
    -3
    24 October 2011 18: 37
    I know the words of a classic.
    And to that I urge.
    For ** alo, understand?

    "Thank God there is adequate youth and there are much more of them ..."

    Really?
    Number? Habitats? Reveal / passwords?

    In PM.
    I'm going to surrender to the mercy. W * py. At the same time, I'll see what the "adequate youth" is doing now (do they really read books?).
    Quite seriously.
  23. Uncle Sam
    -4
    24 October 2011 23: 38
    "Neither the Russian people, nor its rulers will reconcile ...." Why drive something that over the past 100 years with which only the Russian people have not reconciled ...
  24. -4
    26 October 2011 07: 12
    "I am plagued by vague doubts" about Mauser's sexual orientation. Something often he "shakes" his ass, "waves". Oh, it's not good, brothers! Here, apparently, in what way he caught the infection ...
    1. sirToad
      0
      26 October 2011 08: 00
      but look what old Freud interpreted on this subject, eg. in the "psychology of the unconscious".
  25. gAMauzer
    -1
    26 October 2011 16: 18
    "Old Freud" said that "sometimes a cigar is just a cigar."

    I don’t even want to comment on this.

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