The cruiser "Admiral Lazarev" will be disposed of in 2016 g

246
The modernization of the heavy nuclear missile cruiser “Admiral Lazarev” (the second of the four 1144 “Orlan” TARKs) is not planned, the ship will be disposed of, the Navy Headquarters told Interfax. He writes about it MIC.



“The decision to return the nuclear-powered cruiser Admiral Lazarev was not made. Apparently, the ship will have to be disposed of next year, ”a spokesman for the headquarters told the agency.

“An official document on this issue has not yet been adopted. It is expected that it will appear before the end of this year, ”he added.

According to the interlocutor, "the ship is outdated morally and physically frayed, therefore it is not able to wait in line for the restoration of technical readiness for a few more years."

“In addition, the transportation of the immobilized nuclear-powered cruiser from the Far East to Severodvinsk is also seen as very problematic. The regional ship repair enterprises will not be ready to restore the ship of such a large displacement in the next five years, ”he said.

Help MIC: "TARK" Admiral Lazarev "was built at the Baltic Shipyard under project 1144.2 under the name" Frunze ". It went into operation in 1984. Withdrew from the Pacific fleet in 1999. Five years later, nuclear power plants were unloaded from a ship in Big Stone, after which the cruiser was mothballed. ”

In December last year, Lazarev underwent a dock repair at the 30 th ship repair plant of the Pacific Fleet. However, no decision on the fate of the missile cruiser has so far been voiced.

Of the 4-s built TARK class "Orlan" in combat condition at the present time is only one - "Peter the Great."
  • vpk-news.ru
Our news channels

Subscribe and stay up to date with the latest news and the most important events of the day.

246 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. -26
    1 July 2015 17: 59
    It’s better to dispose than wait until he drowns himself.
    1. Old cat
      +112
      1 July 2015 18: 03
      Krandets, in 84 went into operation, and in 99 removed !!! 15 years!!!
      There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!
      If so we will relate to ships then what for such a fleet is needed? Only drown money, it’s better to go to land and aviation
      But:
      Source: Russia decided to transfer to Ukraine more than 20 ships in Crimea
      1. +49
        1 July 2015 18: 15
        Quote: Old cat
        Krandets, in 84 went into operation, and in 99 removed !!! 15 years!!!
        There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!

        Yes, because the authorities were different Gaidars with Chubais and Berezovsky with Gusinskys, Abramovichs for whom the main thing was to destroy our country as quickly as possible and at the same time "steal" more money. They did not consider the USSR as their homeland, as well as in the future, they simply fulfilled the order of their "masters" from the CIA and the Mossad, filling their pockets along the way.

        1. +76
          1 July 2015 19: 24
          COMMUNE!
          Construction started 1912 year
          Launched 1913 year
          Commissioned 1915 year
          Status In the fleet[

          OUT OF DATE? Rusty ?! ON NEEDLE ???? !!!!
          1. +20
            1 July 2015 19: 31
            Kommuna has extremely high-quality metal .. - it practically does not corrode .. Surprisingly, the secret of the alloy was lost a long time ago ..
            1. +8
              1 July 2015 20: 02
              Dikson YOU
              Nonsense, please write in excuse of a thief? Oh well. negative
              1. +6
                1 July 2015 21: 07
                And here is the excuse of a thief? There is really wonderful iron.
                1. +5
                  1 July 2015 21: 45
                  the secret of the alloy has long been lost.

                  Have you heard about spectral analysis?
                  And what about the use of chemicals?
                  You have never heard of other "impossible" analyzes.
                  Well, about the fact that more than a century and 30 years are different, you are unfamiliar because time is not a concept for you.
                  And finally, I don’t care how, the question is why.
                  The one who solves the problem is looking for a way, the one who does not want to solve is the cause.
                  And you justify by the fact that you level the comparison of a hundred-year-old vessel in service and a "goldfinch" hatched and announced with old stuff!
                  1. +25
                    1 July 2015 22: 24
                    Listen, if you know the ingredients of borscht, this does not mean that you will be able to cook it well. A column in India of chemically pure iron has cost more than one century .. And somehow no one succeeds in repeating such a trick .. And no reagents and spectral analyzes help .. You still ask around the "tankers" why they cannot repeat some brands of armor, or turbines, why the Chinese have blades "fly", but ours do not .. Everywhere has its secrets. Although the composition of the material is not so difficult to determine ..
                    1. +7
                      1 July 2015 22: 33
                      Quote: Dikson
                      A column in India made of chemically pure iron has cost more than one century .. And something no one can repeat such a trick.

                      Thank you, neighing again, at the expense of the "chemically pure": laughing
                      : Chet tells me that this is pitting corrosion, coupled with surface. laughing Rust, there, Sanya Eiffel, stupidly added phosphorus to the alloy, and there is no turret, "atmospheric iron" is fragile, but if there are no alternating stresses, it is a century old.
                      1. +4
                        1 July 2015 22: 54
                        Well, now laugh at the age of this thing .. And compare with any other piece of iron known to you ..
                      2. +4
                        1 July 2015 23: 26
                        Quote: Dikson
                        And compare with any other piece of iron known to you ..

                        In principle, any chromium-containing what lose the kitchen knife, descendants will find, they will go nuts laughing
                      3. +4
                        2 July 2015 01: 18
                        Quote: perepilka
                        Thank you, neighing once again, at the expense of "chemically pure":

                        Carbon in the iron column is 0.08%, silicon is 0.046%, sulfur is 0.006%, phosphorus is 0.114%, nitrogen is 0.032%; the rest is iron. / Analysis by Indian scientist Chedari
                        Such a composition can be considered chemically pure iron.
                        Clarity will bring density: mass / volume.
                        Who will give that?

                        A trace of the cannonball and traces of rust around.


                        Lumps of iron weighing 20-30 kg were welded together by forging: traces of hammer blows and a welding line were preserved on the column. The welding quality turned out to be good: in 1738 the column withstood artillery shelling during the invasion of the Persian Shah Nadir; traces of cores are still visible.
                      4. 0
                        2 July 2015 22: 48
                        Quote: opus
                        Lumps of iron weighing 20-30 kg were welded together by forging:

                        It seems like one hit and a bunch of cracks. Well, I know what a blacksmith’s welding is, you’ll wash such pieces with a sledgehammer, and there won’t be any sense.
                    2. +5
                      1 July 2015 22: 47
                      The whole secret of this "pillar" is that the chemical composition has a monstrous phosphorus content, such a natural phosphating, an oxide film protects the metal from corrosion.
                      1. -1
                        1 July 2015 23: 05
                        Quote: m262
                        monstrous phosphorus content,

                        Yeah, in "chemically pure iron", nevertheless it rusts, not childishly. And don’t worry, kritz, damask steel from India came, purely by credit, that ore with normal additives was found, but what Pal Petrovich did, Anosov, there really is no analogue, and consequently, in the form of thirty tons of Ural steel, noted in the city of Berlin ... and his merit, too. drinks
                      2. +1
                        2 July 2015 12: 07
                        Quote: m262
                        The whole secret of this "pillar" is that the chemical composition has a monstrous phosphorus content

                        there
                        Quote: opus
                        phosphorus - 0.114%



                        Phosphorus in most steels is a harmful impurity. Its content in the initial charge is usually several times higher than permissible in finished steel. Therefore, in the processes of steel smelting, as a rule, there is a need for mandatory metal dephosphorization.

                    3. +5
                      2 July 2015 01: 24
                      Quote: Dikson
                      And something no one can repeat such a trick.

                      Delhi climate especially therewhere the column is located is very dry: the relative humidity during the year does not exceed 50 - 60%, and normal - within 30 - 40%.

                      The English scientist Vernoy found that with relative humidity up to 30%, metal corrosion is practically not observed, while increasing humidity to 60 - 70%, a slow increase in corrosion is observed. At humidity above 70%, corrosion increases sharply and decreases slightly at humidity above 90%.

                      In 1953, Hudson published in the journal "Nature" (vol. 172, p. 499) a report on the rate of corrosion of copper steel and zinc in places with different climates, including near the famous column. The atmosphere in Delhi was in the penultimate place in terms of aggressiveness, yielding only to the atmosphere in Khartoum, which is even drier. Hudson also found that even during the monsoon, the humidity of the Delhi air exceeds the critical value (70%), at which steel corrodes noticeably, only in the morning. Even unstable zinc is very slightly oxidized in Delhi. From the results of Hudson, it follows that the metal of the Delhi column corrodes only two times faster than copper steel (6XX28MDT, 03XH28MDT, X15Н5Д2Т).
                      1. 0
                        2 July 2015 22: 11
                        Quote: opus
                        Delhi’s climate, especially where the column is located, is very dry: the relative humidity during the year does not exceed 50-60%, and the usual humidity is within 30-40%.

                        Monsoon from late June to mid-September.
                        And the column, not a part of the machine, stands and stands and its cold-brittleness, on the drum what Data about 114 thousandths from? although, in iron-carbon steel, a 0,05% limit, then, only on columns laughing Plus with me laughing
                      2. +3
                        2 July 2015 23: 36
                        Quote: perepilka
                        Monsoon, from late June to mid-September.

                        I used to think in Thailand humidity (Humidity in Thailand in winter and summer is ok 70%), rain, heavy, I don’t feel like smoking ...
                        returned, looked at the hygrometer in St. Petersburg: On average, for a year it is about 75%, in the summer - 60 — 70%, and in winter - 83 — 88% (and more often under 95% it can lie?)
                        The number of days with relative humidity in St. Petersburg however 80% varies from 140 to 155 per year
                        Delhi (monsoons oh mother), today

                        Do you count the daily average?
                        St. Petersburg, no rain, no sun, breeze, children burned, today (yesterday it was halfway easy)

                        Do you count the daily average?
                        Wrote the same:

                        Quote: opus
                        Delhi's climate, especially where the column is located, is very dry: relative humidity during the year does not exceed 50 - 60%, normal - within 30 - 40%.



                        Quote: perepilka
                        cold brittleness to her, on the drum

                        I did not understand thoughts !!!
                        Cold brittleness - tendency of metal to crack and break during cold machining.

                        Quote: perepilka
                        Data about 114 thousandths from?

                        REPEAT
                        Quote: opus
                        Carbon in the iron column is 0.08%, silicon is 0.046%, sulfur is 0.006%, phosphorus is 0.114%, nitrogen is 0.032%; the rest is iron. /Analysis made by Indian scientist Chedari
                      3. 0
                        3 July 2015 21: 45
                        Quote: opus
                        Do you count the daily average?

                        In the sixth ward plus forty, in the morgue minus five, the average for the hospital, the temperature is normal what
                        I did not understand thoughts !!!
                        Cold brittleness - the tendency of a metal to crack and break during cold machining.

                        Alternating loads under normal conditions they forgot to add, which side to this column, but at the expense of the mechanical, so the cracks in the zone of impact of the nucleus, mother-mother-mother, well, at the expense of "atmospheric iron" take an interest all the same
                        phosphorus - 0.114%, analysis done by Indian scientist Chedari
                        If in steel over 0,05% this is a marriage, in cast iron, up to 0,5%, they say foundries improve, but I somehow don’t meet him, and you won’t even cook it with a blacksmith requestWell, plus sign, even so for a summary of weather forecasts, a daughter in St. Petersburg, a medical assistant, on the sixth laughing
                    4. +2
                      2 July 2015 06: 42
                      You are 100% right. During the Second World War, already in 45, shock absorbers assembled from disk springs began to be installed on German planes. Drawings and finished products fell into the hands of our engineers, but they could not repeat the alloy from which the springs themselves were made. Our flattened at the first impact.
                  2. +8
                    2 July 2015 01: 07
                    Quote: Grandfather Bear
                    Nonsense, please write in excuse of a thief?

                    What nonsense?
                    It's true
                    Legends say that the sheets were "soaked" for decades in the Pinsk swamps, then forged ...

                    The vessel was built in the 1910s (order No. 3559 of the General Affairs Department of the Main Directorate for Shipbuilding). The order was accepted for execution on January 25, 1912.
                    at the shipyards of the Putilov plant in Petrograd. In the manufacture of the case was used special ductile malleable ship steel, the secret of which is now lost. Over the course of a century, it has worn out just a few millimeters and is almost untouched by corrosion.. This strikes even the most experienced engineers - because they are well aware that the steel hulls of modern ships corrode corrosion in 30-40 years. But on the catamaran, only those iron structures that were installed at a later time rust and turn into dust. The parts of the case were connected with metal rivets, which were hammered into special holes.






                    Everything rusts, he doesn't
                    Quote: Grandfather Bear
                    Have you heard about spectral analysis?

                    You can do a radionuclide analysis.
                    What to do with technologies that have been lost?

                    At the Composite enterprise, celebrating its 40th anniversary this year, new alloys are created and tested. Today, engineers of the main material science enterprise of Roscosmos, working with spacecraft, took up an unusual task - to solve the mystery of the steel of the hull of the sea ship "Commune"



                    "Putilov metallurgists in the process of creating sheet steel, applied burnishing (!)"
                    SHEETS !!!! not trunks.
                    And how did-xs
                    1. 0
                      2 July 2015 08: 49
                      In the future, all hulls of ships will be made of composites, they will certainly not rust and will have high strength.
                      1. +1
                        2 July 2015 12: 14
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        In the future, all ship hulls will be made of composites

                        hardly
                        1. Expensive
                        2. The prevalence of iron in the earth's crust is 4,65% (4-place after O, Si, Al)
                        3.KM practically not repairable and not subject to recycling
                        4.KM are also subject to degradation: UV, acids, alkalis, etc.
                      2. 0
                        2 July 2015 14: 06
                        3D printing will soon enter shipbuilding, and the high cost of production will go away.
                      3. 0
                        2 July 2015 21: 26
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        3D printing will soon enter shipbuilding,

                        3D is already "yesterday" day.
                        Take an interest in learning English (for what it took 3 to the printer a day, they fucked up for 30 minutes, and better with that)

                        ================
                        Yes, and it is not needed for shipbuilding (estimate 3d printer, the size of a ship)
                        and the modules ...
                        modules ALL equally collected in the dock
                      4. 0
                        2 July 2015 18: 54
                        Fiberglass corvettes have been around for a long time. The Space Shuttle's external tank was being repaired right on the launch pad. Recycling plastics has also been around for a long time.
                      5. +2
                        2 July 2015 21: 41
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Fiberglass corvettes have been around for a long time.

                        I meant other CM (Polymer composite materials, such as carbon), and not old fiberglass (from which the Polaris hulls were made)
                        Reinforced concrete and plywood, also KM
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        The Space Shuttle's external tank was being repaired right on the launch pad.

                        1. "repaired" nonsense is complete
                        sprayed (dusted) a polyisocyanurite foam up to 2,5 thick. see yes.
                        It's like polyurethane foam - it is a polyurethane foam sealant, only on 3 is about more expensive


                        / I can’t imagine the lunatic who will be patched by the N2 and O2 to patch up the external fuel tank .... for reference, the Americans refuel the wounds not on the SK, but in the analogue of the MIC (SC) /
                        2. I will disappoint you:
                        tanks (VTB Shuttle) were made aluminum-lithium alloy




                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Recycling plastics has also been around for a long time.

                        yeah ...
                        Are we talking about plastics or about, KM?
                        share ideas with them
                        Carbon Capture, Utilization & Storage
                        Gordon research conference
                      6. 0
                        2 July 2015 23: 39
                        You wrote about KM. Fiberglass differs only in the type of fiber, and for non-magnetism it is better.

                        grooved linings were made on the tank, in the photo - what the tank was wound on during manufacture wassat
                        The external tank was refueled with cryogenic fuel and oxidizer always on the launch pad.
                      7. +1
                        3 July 2015 03: 26
                        Quote: Scraptor
                        Fiberglass differs only in the type of fiber,

                        This is the "old" km, I meant something else.
                        by the way fiberglass is not recycled (if I may say so), in general
                        Shuttle TANK at 100%
                        Quote: opus
                        aluminum-lithium alloy



                        Fig. 3. Two examples friction welding (Photo: Courtesy of Lockheed Martin Space System, Michoud Operations,)

                        b) A 27.5 foot diameter aluminum alloy (Al 2195) Space Shuttle external tank barrel
                        neither where nor what was wound. TK coating was, partially mats, partially foam, partially stupidly punished

                        Quote: Scraptor
                        The external tank was refueled with cryogenic fuel and oxidizer always on the launch pad.

                        Yes, I was mistaken, I forgot about cryogenics.
                        But it does not change anything. no "repairs"
                      8. 0
                        3 July 2015 04: 30
                        Everything is normally recycled, especially in Germany. Maybe the material is old but not useless ...

                        Shuttle tank was obtained by winding. Accelerators were assembled from metal sections. There were metal parts but they did not have a primary bearing function. Lockheed can sing any kind of song as with F-35 / Yak-41 (from which the roofing felts were taken only there is no nozzle), but using the composite makes it possible to reduce weight by a minimum of 1,5-2 times, this is especially important for launch vehicles .

                        Fuel and oxidizer were poured back into storage tanks and repairs were carried out. No one in vain drove him back and forth on the crawler. This was done only when the prelaunch failure occurred after the shuttle had time to switch to power from an internal current source.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. +3
              1 July 2015 20: 43
              Quote: Dikson
              Surprisingly, the secret of the alloy has long been lost ..
              And didn’t you try to hand over to the laboratory * saw * pass and analyze the metal? --No? Well then, it’s clear that the secret of metal will never be guessed !!! laughing
              1. +8
                1 July 2015 21: 05
                Look on the Internet .. more recently, a similar operation was carried out .. I suspect this is not the first time .. I really need to know the composition .. And how to calculate the parameters and cooking technology?
                1. +13
                  1 July 2015 21: 54
                  For information - water is the perfect solvent. It dissolves everything, sometimes for a long time. And sea water dissolves everything and quickly. And it is almost the same to her that Steel 10, that pudding iron, that chromium-nickel alloy. Titanium and cast iron work well in seawater.
                  Also for information - to repeat the metal with the existing sample is not a problem for modern metallurgy. And to declare that marten gives ideal corrosion properties, and only an amateur can not have an electric furnace. Minus electric furnace in high prices.
                  Need to care for the ship! Mechanically, chemically, electro-chemically, etc., but take care!
                  hi
                  1. ork
                    ork
                    +17
                    1 July 2015 22: 08
                    Well, that's what kind of people. The more stars, the dumber the comments. Just like he returned to the army. "The more oak trees there are, the stronger the defense."
                    The electric arc method will never be more expensive than the open-hearth one. NEVER. Read the tutorial "Steel Making". Menagers are all around.
                    1. 0
                      1 July 2015 23: 02
                      Igor!

                      Read this tutorial yourself. At one time I was engaged in melting in electric furnaces of corrosion-resistant and heat-resistant steels. And just think is not harmful, why is the cost of steel from an electric furnace will be less? First, estimate the price of a unit of energy when burning natural gas and when arc / induction heating.

                      Well, regarding the following comment about Damascus steel. Firstly, Damascus steel and damask steel are not the same thing. It's like coconut and palm oil. Secondly, I clearly wrote the word "FOR EXAMPLE". What, with the semantic processing in the hollow of the familiar letters of difficulty? Is the school to blame for the problems with understanding the text? I recommend that you start writing a draft first, then read it carefully.

                      In general, you are not from dill? And then the rudeness and illiteracy napahnulo. fool
                      1. ork
                        ork
                        +2
                        2 July 2015 11: 10
                        Following your logic - the whole WORLD is ignorant, since they have long since left the technologies of the 19th century, i.e. "open-hearth furnaces". It makes no sense to argue with you, since which of us is right - judged (and for a long time already) modern technology of steel production. They also forgot to calculate the energy consumption for the specific tonnage of production, taking into account TOTAL (I repeat - TOTAL) of the open-hearth complex, and not just the furnace.
                        You can do (at home) anything. On an industrial scale, steel is successfully and cost-effectively obtained using a converter method for redistributing cast iron, followed by refinement to the desired grade using a vacuum cleaner, or by direct reduction method. And the way that you are trying to retract it is relevant for small volumes of special steels. And completely useless, where hundreds of thousands and millions of tons are needed.
                        So, you do not need to consider yourself smarter than the rest. Pride is a sin.
                        About "Damascus" this is a simple banter and nothing more.
                    2. 0
                      2 July 2015 08: 51
                      The future belongs to plasma ovens.
                  2. +1
                    1 July 2015 22: 36
                    Quote: My address
                    seawater dissolves everything and quickly
                    this is a very controversial statement .. There are too many factors for "quick" dissolution ... That is what Roman and Greek ships still find ... Is there something wrong in the solution? I agree with the electro-chemical factor of sea water .. But it is worth reading the same Jacques Yves Cousteau and a couple of surnames ... - on the contrary, they were amazed at how long the ships remained at the bottom ...
                    1. 0
                      2 July 2015 06: 48
                      Ships are stored in the bottom. More precisely in bottom sediments (silt is best).
                  3. +4
                    1 July 2015 23: 25
                    Quote: My address
                    For information, water is an ideal solvent. Dissolves everything, though sometimes for a long time. And seawater dissolves everything quickly.

                    Water is H2O. Pure, distilled. Dielectric, inert medium.
                    And everything else that is called water - river, sea, tap, key - is a kind of solution of various chemical mucks, often aggressive for metals and for the stomach. The solution is insidious! laughing
                  4. The comment was deleted.
                  5. +4
                    2 July 2015 03: 14
                    Quote: My address
                    For information, water is an ideal solvent.

                    not perfect, but a good strongly polar solvent.
                    According to the experience, ETHILIZOVALERATE (ethyl-2-methylbutyrate) (CH3) 2CH—-CH3COOX3X5 does not dissolve at all (0,17%).
                    Quote: My address
                    . And seawater dissolves everything and quickly

                    yes she herself is a solution of salts, with pH 8,1
                    sea ​​water is very dilute, and therefore almost completely ionized, neutral solution almost all known natural solid chemicals.
                  6. +4
                    2 July 2015 06: 40
                    Quote: My address
                    And to declare that martin gives ideal properties against corrosion, and there can be no electric furnace only an amateur. Minus electric furnace in high cost.

                    Open-hearth production in our country did not remain - this is the last century. Although steel can be welded there very high quality, but the energy consumption for fuel (fuel oil or natural gas) is huge - much more than in a conventional electric arc furnace.
                    Again, it is not clear what is meant by the term "electric furnace"? Exists some various steel smelting technologies where electric energy is used to heat the metal. Among them: electric arc-which is used as a rule for smelting ordinary grades (the most affordable and inexpensive), minus this method in the saturation of metal with carbon from graphite electrodes. Induction - smelting the highest quality corrosion-resistant, heat-resistant and other steels and alloys. furnaces can produce steels with a low carbon content and carbon-free alloys, since there is no carburizing medium.
                    RџSЂRё vacuum induction Smelting produces high-quality alloys with a low content of gases, non-metallic inclusions and alloys alloyed with any elements. But this method is very costly and limited in terms of production.
                    1. +1
                      2 July 2015 08: 55
                      To all this, it is still worth adding a plasma oven.
              2. -4
                1 July 2015 21: 32
                Why not! The secret of making "Damascus steel" was also lost, but then it was solved, in my opinion, in the 18th century. In Russia, this steel was called damask steel. Now, hunting knives are made from this steel.
                1. +4
                  2 July 2015 21: 27
                  Hand face...
                  Damascus and Bulat are two different things !!!
              3. +9
                1 July 2015 22: 41
                Not really. It’s only a little that you know the composition of the alloy. With each year of industrial development, technology has become much more complex, and the process chains have become longer. And to restore this chain, and most importantly, the specific parameters of technological processes, having only a finished product on hand is practically impossible. Take, for example, the blade of a high-pressure turbine of the AL-31 engine. By taking and examining it, one can easily obtain information about its geometry, in particular, about the internal cooling channels. You can get more or less accurate information about the alloy used in the blade. In the end, making microsections, we conclude that the blade is a single crystal. Geometry is relatively easy to copy. Alloy copy is already more difficult. Properly cooling the melt so that there is only one crystallization center is already damn difficult. But it is precisely the totality of all these technological stages that provides the final characteristics of the product. And this is only one shoulder blade. One unit in a huge engine. How, having only a finished product on hand, find out all the stages of its production? How many times has the workpiece been forged? Stamped? What heat treatment regimen was it subjected to? Have there been intermediate heat treatments between operations? This information is not available, and extracting it from the finished sparkling part is very, very difficult, if at all possible. That is why the AL-31F engine, which was developed back in the 70's, was only recently copied by China. And the result of this copying is extremely unsatisfactory: a much shorter resource, and less specific thrust than the original. And that is why, despite having its own copy, China still buys AL-31 from Russia. So, each design bureau keeps the secrets of armor, alloy, metals under seven locks.
                1. +1
                  1 July 2015 23: 56
                  Quote: Saburov
                  Properly cooling the melt so that there is only one crystallization center is already damn difficult.
                  You so selflessly spoke about the AL-31F dvigat blade that I foolishly almost believed that you were in the know ... but only to the point of melt and crystallization ...
                  Now it’s clear that with the technology of growing an all-crystal blade from a solution of titanium salts by a laser in a vacuum, you have no idea.
                  Then what is all this ... talk about? lol
                  1. +7
                    2 July 2015 00: 17
                    I personally do not know the technology, I have a different specialty. If the production technologies of the same blades were publicly available, then the Chinese or Indians would have stamped them for a long time and their engines were in no way inferior to ours or American ... you apparently read my comment poorly, it’s not about growing the blade, but in the process chain.
                    1. +1
                      4 July 2015 08: 57
                      Quote: Saburov
                      I personally am not familiar with technology, I have a different specialty. Alloy copy is already more difficult.
                      Then there is no need to argue with the aplomb of the expert that even in the first approximation you do not know. Yes
                      Actually about the AL-31F blades, I endured exactly up to this point: belay
                      Quote: Saburov
                      How many times has the workpiece been forged? Stamped? What heat treatment regimen was it subjected to? Have there been intermediate heat treatments between operations?
                      lol
                      Could not resist, sorry meekly. Probably offended, but not from evil. Just before * the old guard of the site * was responsible for every word ... Now something * is all mixed up in the Oblonsky’s house * ... sad
              4. +1
                2 July 2015 22: 54
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                And didn’t you try to hand over to the laboratory * saw * pass and analyze the metal? --No? Well then, it’s clear that the secret of metal will never be guessed !!! laughing

                There are modern technologies to produce similar. Only now the modern one turns out to be very expensive, and from the Demidov factories high-quality iron was cheap.

                "..... It got to the point that even having state-owned metallurgical plants, including those in the Urals, Peter I, by a decree of 1718, demanded that the Admiralty accept only Demidov iron for the needs of the fleet. The products of other plants were not ordered to be accepted for uselessness "The quality was really excellent: the cast-iron floors, jambs and the frame of the Nevyansk tower, built at the direction of Akinfiy Demidov and from his metal, for 300 years has hardly touched rust. The glory of the Demidov iron is not just a legend - the Old Sable brand was especially famous in XVIII century - the golden age of the old Ural metallurgy. Then Russia occupied the first place in the world in the production of metal, ahead of England and Sweden. ..... " http://vremenaru.com/demidov
            4. +3
              1 July 2015 21: 25
              This alloy can only be obtained in open-hearth furnaces; it really does not lend itself to corrosion in an aggressive environment, like sea water. Now the open-hearth furnaces are all dismantled. Steel is melted in electric furnaces, and electronics controls melting. Electronics so does not feel the melting of steel, like an experienced steelmaker controlling the melting. request
              1. 0
                1 July 2015 22: 09
                Vyacheslav!

                You are not right. See my comment above. Modern metallurgy, for example, can easily produce a damask blade, although everyone moans about the lost secret of bulat. It is just too expensive.

                I know a little about the types of corrosion and metallurgy, and I assure you that there is no precious metals and alloys for seawater. She eats gold with platinum. Only titanium and cast iron quite effectively resist it.
                hi
                1. +5
                  1 July 2015 23: 02
                  Quote: My address
                  Modern metallurgy, for example, can easily make a damask blade, although everyone is groaning about the lost secret of damask steel. It's just too expensive.

                  Here the high cost of manual work consists - and nothing more. Moreover, damask steel could be made only from ore of a certain deposit - the so-called. natural alloying was obtained. And now you can take almost any ore, and make damask steel with very specific manipulations and microalloying. In addition, there is now a mass of steels and alloys that will be in terms of characteristics and abruptly damask. Sharpening them, however, is more difficult, but there are also modern materials for this.
                2. +3
                  1 July 2015 23: 14
                  As Professor Gurin told us at the university, the secret of Damascus steel was discovered in the Middle Ages with the help of ticks, a bonfire, crowbar and a captive Arab! There is nothing complicated in steel itself — the biggest difficulty is forging. Samch steel can be obtained if a mold filled with cast-iron shavings is filled with low-carbon steel ((the shavings must be dry and calcined !!!)
                  Chatun resists seawater best, and it is from it that ships made door locks.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. 0
                  2 July 2015 06: 54
                  I confirm.
            5. ork
              ork
              0
              1 July 2015 22: 04
              So is he from Damascus steel ??? Ahrenet.
          2. +8
            1 July 2015 20: 56
            The ship is already morally obsolete (aluminum in superstructures, radar garlands, any lack of stealth) during its modernization, it will be necessary to change all equipment, including expensive reactors, weapons and systems, to adapt to the existing hull, and not vice versa.
            He has one plus, he is hefty and atomic. It's cool, people like it. At the same time, without aircraft carrier cover, as it was losing in the "big ocean" to the same USA, in general it will lose, because there will be no miracles and even modernized it will still be a floating arsenal.
            Therefore, the idea of ​​modernizing these "white elephants" was more of a political decision against the background of "a lot of extra money", but now I would not be surprised if "Nakhimov" (or "Petr") is frozen too. The Navy needs other ships and faster.
            1. +2
              1 July 2015 21: 29
              Some people here surprise me too, well, they would drive modernized "sixes", they would put in a V6, AWD, etc., if they don't have a new one, give them a new one and preferably once every .... year (month). To make a full-fledged combat ship from it, you must leave one bath !!! And what is cheaper ??? No matter how it would be simply set on fire during disposal, and then flooded. IMHO.
            2. ork
              ork
              +2
              1 July 2015 22: 25
              The fleet must first of all decide on a strategy. Will fight "behind a puddle" - it is necessary to build AUG AND TARK; Will not be - then really fast, but yachts for "Abramovich". They bring profit faster.
              1. +3
                1 July 2015 22: 27
                The fleet has already decided on a strategy. And AUG with large squadrons, at least 10 years in advance, are absent in it. Especially when you have to count money.
            3. +9
              1 July 2015 22: 55
              Write everything correctly. But there is one "but" that is almost always forgotten. It is possible to upgrade the Lazarev, but to build a new cruiser or destroyer in the near future is not. It's like with the "Mistrals": some shout - what for they are needed, others - but we ourselves will build. And what is the BOTTOM? Minus cruiser, minus two UDC. What's the plus? NOTHING! And time goes by ...
              1. 0
                1 July 2015 23: 05
                You understand, this is simple arithmetic - they took the money from somewhere and there it will no longer be. That is, either an old cruiser or ... and then they will spend on what. And it is recognized that this "or" is more important for defenses.
              2. +4
                2 July 2015 00: 24
                Quote: W L A D
                In December last year, Lazarev underwent a dock repair at the 30 th ship repair plant of the Pacific Fleet. However, no decision on the fate of the missile cruiser has so far been voiced.

                ...
                In December last year, Lazarev underwent a dock repair at the 30 th ship repair plant of the Pacific Fleet. However, no decision on the fate of the missile cruiser has so far been voiced.
                .. the article is written in black and white .. there is no decision .. and the conclusion of the "representative" in the "statement" of the journalists .. this is fortune telling on the coffee grounds .. and one more thing .. who will dispose of a ship of such a displacement? and where ? .. in order to dispose of it, specialists of the level who built it are needed ..
              3. +2
                2 July 2015 01: 54
                Quote: W L A D
                But there is one "but" that is almost always forgotten. It is possible to upgrade "Lazarev", but to build a new cruiser or destroyer, in the near future, not

                This is just at the time when the Pacific Fleet ships are sorely lacking!
                And again, the state cannot decide which fleet the RF, coastal or ocean needs.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. +18
            1 July 2015 21: 42
            Off topic, sorry ...
            But there is no such topic. And today is a holiday. Congratulations I congratulate drinks . Health and longevity to all of us good
            1. +5
              1 July 2015 23: 03
              Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
              Off topic, sorry ...

              and where is such a marvelous monument, excuse me?
              hi
              1. +2
                2 July 2015 00: 47
                Quote: old man54
                and where is such a marvelous monument,

                I won’t answer, I don’t know myself sad So in the morning I was congratulated by the former subordinates, now living in Belarus. The monument is really marvelous
                1. 0
                  2 July 2015 13: 59
                  In Kiev ....
            2. +5
              2 July 2015 01: 04
              Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
              Health and longevity to all of us

              Join us! drinks
              And the lost Eternal Memory! soldier
          5. 0
            1 July 2015 21: 54
            not much off topic but)

            Expert: Submarines of the Russian Federation and China are practically elusive for the USA
            U.S. military analysts admit that Russian and Chinese diesel-electric submarines pose a serious threat, as they are extremely difficult to detect, RIA Novosti reports.


            The agency cites the opinion of military expert Franz-Stefan Gadi, who believes that "diesel-electric submarines pose a threat to US access to strategically important coastal zones, as well as maritime trade." Gadi notes that these vessels are constantly being improved. The next generation will be equipped with air-independent power plants and powerful lithium-ion batteries. Such submarines will be even more difficult to detect and destroy in the event of a military conflict.

            The agency quotes American Rear Admiral Frank Drennan, who believes that "distinguishing the sound of a diesel-electric submarine in coastal waters is the same as trying to isolate the sound of a car engine in the noise of a big city."

            The United States Department of Defense Advanced Defense Research Projects Agency (DARPA) is currently developing an anti-submarine drone, which is almost the only means of combating Russian and Chinese non-nuclear submarines. The unmanned vessel ACTUV will be able to autonomously sail from 60 to 90 days, monitor the water area and inform the warships where the submarines are. The drone itself will not be equipped with any weapons.
            We add that a series of six Project 636.3 Varshavyanka diesel-electric submarines, which have already been nicknamed "black holes" for their noiselessness, are being built at the Admiralty Shipyard in St. Petersburg. The lead submarine of this series, Novorossiysk, was handed over to the military in August 2014, and the second boat, Rostov-on-Don, was taken over by the fleet at the end of 2014. The third and fourth "Varshavyanka" for the Black Sea Fleet - "Stary Oskol" and "Krasnodar" - will be transferred to the military this year.

            Dossier "RG"

            The boats of the project 636 have the following characteristics: length - 74 meters, underwater speed - 20 knots, maximum immersion depth - 300 meters, autonomy - 45 days, crew - 52 people. Armament - 6 torpedo tubes, ammunition - 18 torpedoes or mines (two per unit), anti-ship missile system of the "Club-S" type. The submarine's air defense is provided with Strela-3 or Igla anti-aircraft missile systems.
            1. +2
              2 July 2015 00: 25
              Quote: Siberia
              Armament - 6 torpedo tubes, ammunition - 18 torpedoes or mines (two per vehicle),

              How many classes did you graduate from before becoming an * expert *? Where did you get "2 per device"? 18: 6 = 3 (!) 6 in TA pipes, and 12 on shelves ... Yes
              (We have eaten a dog for a long time if the cook is not lying to us!) laughing
            2. +3
              2 July 2015 00: 32
              Quote: Siberia
              anti-ship missile system "Club-S"

              ... "Caliber PL" .. "Club-S" is an export version .. hi
          6. 0
            2 July 2015 01: 00
            Quote: Grandfather Bear
            OUT OF DATE? Rusty ?! ON NEEDLE ???? !!!!

            nevertheless Displacement 3100 t, against 24 300 t with nuclear power plants (two reactors), UNLOADED in 2005 like
            the inability to restart the reactor core at the Zvezda plant
        2. +5
          1 July 2015 20: 37
          It’s not necessary to write off everything on the Gaidars with Chubais; they have long been out of business.
          And the decision to write off the TARK is made by the current, thieves' government. Well, nothing, their time will come, and the people will "utilize" them, clean up.
        3. +7
          2 July 2015 01: 26
          Quote: quilted jacket
          Because the authorities were different Gaidars with Chubais and Berezovskiy with Gusinskys, Abramovichs for whom the main thing was to destroy our country as quickly as possible and at the same time to "steal" more

          You are right ... but it should be noted that the Mir orbital station was drowned precisely under the current president, on October 17, 2001, President Vladimir Putin announced at a meeting in the Ministry of Defense about the liquidation of military bases in Lourdes and Camrani [4].,
          and Lazarev at the wall costs 15 years also with GDP.
          This I mean, why do you divide the "figures" into two periods?
          You are fundamentally wrong, all the characters have remained in power for 25 years, the "Gaidar readings" are still being held, the top management "lays flowers at the grave", Mr. Chubais holds a state position, Mr. Stankevich is the presidential advisor , i.e. the whole Eieltsin army is "in business." And it was not for this purpose that they appointed a successor, namely a successor, in order to later change the political and social course of the Russian Federation.
          "Admiral Lazarev" is one of the victims of the Camprador bourgeoisie that came to power.
          Just sit down, analyze, look at what is happening from a class point of view. Try to think on your own without the help of a duroscope and you will understand that the liberal-bourgeois line, WITHOUT CHANGE, is and will be steadily pursued by the bourgeois authorities until the time when the socialist Revolution triumphs ..
      2. +20
        1 July 2015 18: 15
        Well, it was the same statement that the Navy will replenish 20 with new ships. Then everyone was laughing, but in fact, that's how.
        1. +6
          1 July 2015 19: 03
          Replenished. And ultra-small submarines will be built 25 pieces. The first one of these days has joined the Ukrainian Navy. If you do not believe me, then here is a photo of the latest SMPL of the Navy of Ukraine:
          http://sovpl.forum24.ru/?1-1-0-00000452-000-40-0#051
          These are the submarines in Ukraine that are going to be put into continuous production.
          1. +7
            1 July 2015 19: 32
            Quote: Denis_469
            http://sovpl.forum24.ru/?1-1-0-00000452-000-40-0#051

            Borderline, I guess what Will there be a rage in the Yaytsenyukhov ditch? laughing Nothing so funny wassat
            1. +2
              1 July 2015 19: 53
              Well, that I do not know. The Ukrainian admiral promised Ukraine that she would have 25 ultra-small submarines. Here is the first and shown.
              1. +7
                1 July 2015 20: 28
                Quote: Denis_469
                Here is the first and shown.

                Well, one FIG from the original deviated
                here is the correct Svidomo pidvodny Choven wassat
                1. 0
                  2 July 2015 14: 11
                  That nor a lodger! Vin bastard chovn
        2. 0
          1 July 2015 21: 41
          I agree with these! It is better to build a new ship that meets all modern requirements than to repair and modernize an outdated one - you need to invest small finances in it.
          1. +3
            1 July 2015 22: 02
            It is better to build a new ship that meets all modern requirements than to repair and upgrade an outdated

            Who told you that he is old? Who says obsolete? Gaidar? Nanochubyatsyat? Sir Duke?
            Before you grind nonsense, take an interest in the discussion question, and if not with your foot in the question, do not write.
            1. +1
              1 July 2015 23: 26
              If they took the money for the modernization of the Lazarev and immediately laid a new destroyer, then you can understand. But to cut the cruiser and nothing in return ... This (censorship)
      3. The comment was deleted.
        1. Fin
          +2
          1 July 2015 18: 46
          Quote: Grandfather Bear
          The death of this ship will be a monument (next) to the power of merchants and peddlers, a place which is in hard labor!

          Get excited! The reasons for the article are written, do not boil!
          And all-inclusive - it's to Murid.
          1. -8
            1 July 2015 19: 14
            Zhovtoblakitny you ours, calm down you. Moderators delete, without exception, all comments that disagree with either their knowledge of the Russian language or their political views. And this comes to simple conclusions, alas.
            1. +7
              1 July 2015 20: 16
              Quote: Grandfather Bear
              Zhovtoblakitny you ours, calm down you. Moderators delete, without exception, all comments that disagree with either their knowledge of the Russian language or their political views. And this comes to simple conclusions, alas.

              Some reds are no more recent than yellow-blakitnye ones, especially when the Raptors are knocked down with caps.
              1. +1
                1 July 2015 20: 20
                Civil
                That's for sure! And the orgasm at the sight of a live as at the sight of a cruiser is over the top.
            2. Fin
              +5
              1 July 2015 20: 51
              Quote: Grandfather Bear
              Zhovtoblakitny you ours, calm down you.

              I'm in Crimea on vacation. And removed in vain, even if the post hung as the most inadequate.
            3. Half-Blood
              +4
              1 July 2015 21: 11
              Moderators delete all comments without exception, which disagree with either their knowledge of the Russian language or their political views

              Does this mean knowledge of the Russian language by the Moderators?
              Scrolling through the forum, I somehow did not notice the ban of "especially literate" ...
        2. +4
          1 July 2015 21: 34
          On my own, I’ll add, it’s not gagging, but a crime! I’m only 15 years old. I’m still a teenager. I serve and serve him. If our leadership of the Ministry of Defense will treat the entire fleet like that, it’s a TROUBLE HIS PRICE!
          1. +1
            1 July 2015 22: 07
            You at school taught arithmetic dear? If from 2015-1984 = 31 years in the ranks it turns out. This is far from a teenager. Read and consider carefully and do not make hasty conclusions.
      4. +32
        1 July 2015 18: 24
        Quote: Old cat
        Krandets, in 84 went into operation, and in 99 removed !!! 15 years!!!
        There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!
        If so we will relate to ships then what for such a fleet is needed?

        During the perestroika period, only from 1991 to 1997 (without submarines and auxiliary vessels, since 1995 629 warships and ships of the Russian fleet were decommissioned, sunk in bases and sold for metal, 225 of them are ships of the 1st and 2nd rank. But taking into account that here data are given for surface ships only in 1997, and for submarines and auxiliary vessels only until 1995, the true numbers are likely to exceed today 800 ships and ships of the Navy.
        Read this link here for an almost complete list of ships decommissioned during the reign of these "thieves":
        http://drozd-cruiser.ucoz.ru/publ/9-1-0-12
        Moreover, many ships were modernized or built several years before this "assassination" of our Navy.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Russian phoenix
        +2
        1 July 2015 18: 26
        Quote: Old cat
        There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!

        What we have, do not store ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. +3
            1 July 2015 20: 41
            As for cars, it's just a great example! They knew how to do it before. And now look at the 31st Volga after a couple of years of operation ... I want to cry! You will not find such a quantity of rust anywhere else in the automobile industry.
            1. +8
              1 July 2015 20: 47
              This is marketing. Now almost everything in the consumer segment in the world is not made for long-term operation, but in order to buy a new product in a year or two ... Disposability is the main engine of trade ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
      7. +3
        1 July 2015 18: 44
        We can only say one thing - "It's a pity !!!"
      8. +3
        1 July 2015 19: 00
        About the transfer of the Ukram ships, most likely, the throw from UkroSMI.

        Quote: http://korrespondent.net/world/russia/3534332-rossyia-hotova-peredat-ukrayne-yz-
        kryma-20-korablei-smy
        "As soon as peace is reached and a decision is made, we will put more than 20 Ukrainian ships into neutral waters for transfer to representatives of the Navy (Ukrainian Navy), ”he said.


        Klitschko is resting. No specifics. What world, what solution? Russia is not at war with anyone.
        I did not find anything in normal sources (from the Russian media), only from ukrov.
      9. +10
        1 July 2015 19: 03
        Kiev intends to allocate 40 billion hryvnia (about $ 2 billion) to increase the fleet.
        Russia volunteered to help the Ukrainian fascists save this money (there is not enough ATO).
        Russia decided to transfer to Ukraine more than 20 ships in the Crimea ......
        I wonder who decides to help ukrofashistami gas discounts, warships ...
        Nothing censored comes to mind.
        1. +2
          1 July 2015 19: 44
          Stuffing, I wrote one comment higher.
      10. The comment was deleted.
      11. +3
        1 July 2015 19: 22
        Quote: Old cat
        Krandets, in 84 went into operation, and in 99 removed !!! 15 years!!!
        There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!
        If so we will relate to ships then what for such a fleet is needed? Only drown money, it’s better to go to land and aviation
        But:
        Source: Russia decided to transfer to Ukraine more than 20 ships in Crimea

        Still, it’s not for us to judge the modernization of such a giant, but the point is that when such a unit is withdrawn from the Navy, it is worth taking a replacement, is there perhaps something to discuss here?
        1. +2
          1 July 2015 20: 22
          Quote: APASUS
          Still, it’s not for us to judge the modernization of such a giant, but the point is that when such a unit is withdrawn from the Navy, it is worth taking a replacement, is there perhaps something to discuss here?

          TAKR "Admiral Nakhimov" is now undergoing a large-scale modernization and at the beginning of 2018 should become the flagship of the Pacific Fleet.
      12. +14
        1 July 2015 19: 36
        Quote: Old cat
        There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!

        The worst part is that Lazarev is not the first victim of the wise men of 90's ... Ulyanovsk was the NEW first real aircraft carrier! Remind him what those leaders did, the anchor to them in tonsils?
        1. +9
          1 July 2015 19: 55
          Not smart people, but traitors.
        2. 0
          1 July 2015 20: 57
          Was Ulyanov really needed then? here they did not know where to attach "Kuzma" and whether it would drown during the next "flag demonstration". As you know, there was a possibility.
          1. +5
            1 July 2015 21: 09
            Quote: clidon
            Was Ulyanov really needed then?

            Are you serious? sad Very strange question, dear. request
            1. Half-Blood
              +2
              1 July 2015 21: 17
              I agree with you.
              The question is "nowhere". Is the kangaroo jumping?
            2. -1
              1 July 2015 22: 41
              Are you asking the question "spherical in vacuum"? That is, did we want to have such a ship?
              - Well, I wanted to.

              With that funding, the fleet development strategy (more precisely, its absence) was such an opportunity?
              In the 90s, the fleet did not know what to do with what was already there, and they looked at the Ulyanovsk after the Varyag, which was also abandoned. Moreover, all the first 4 sisterships of the 1143 project went to the same place "into oblivion" (except for "Vikramaditya").
              Therefore, "Ulyanovsk" died even before the clever people appeared - it died along with the collapse of the USSR.
              1. +1
                1 July 2015 22: 45
                Quote: clidon
                Therefore, "Ulyanovsk" died even before the clever people appeared - it died along with the collapse of the USSR.

                He did not die. His brand new country, full of power and greatness, ready to guard the state, was cut into needles on stocks. He did not stand for 15 years at a joke near the wall.
                1. +1
                  1 July 2015 22: 56
                  And what had to be done with him? Brand new, full of health, greatness and other things by 35%.
                  You don't need to be a sage to understand - if the "Riga" still had chances to be completed (which did not materialize and was handed over to the Chinese), then the ship was one third ready, which was also more expensive, there were exactly 0 chances. "the economy does not allow - it takes place on the slipway.
                  1. +1
                    1 July 2015 23: 30
                    Quote: clidon
                    And what had to be done with him?

                    It was necessary to hand over the fleet, and not engage in wrecking nationwide. To build so many years ... designers, planners, allies, institutes ... uh ... barbarians.
                    1. +1
                      2 July 2015 20: 07
                      Then it is necessary to decide which fleet - ours, Chinese, Ukrainian? For what money? If this is just a wringing of hands, then against the backdrop of the collapse of the USSR and the entire Soviet system - the fate of Ulyanovsk is a grain of sand.
                      Even if you fantasize and admit that in the 90s the ship would be completed, in what form it would serve and in what condition it would be now.
      13. +3
        1 July 2015 19: 52
        And why the heck do you want to keep dill in the dill? Oysters contain two misrals, they incur losses. Let the dill take their stuff.
      14. +4
        1 July 2015 20: 33
        Frunze has the following fate. All his life he stood in Shkotov 17 at the wall, only on the day of the fleet he came to Vladik (2 hours sailing). 5 years later they could not raise the anchor. The ship was new (canole), but not running at all - that's why it happened. Very sorry.
      15. 0
        1 July 2015 21: 33
        On my own, I’ll add, it’s not gagging, but a crime! I’m only 15 years old. I’m still a teenager. I serve and serve him. If our leadership of the Ministry of Defense will treat the entire fleet like that, it’s a TROUBLE HIS PRICE!
      16. 0
        1 July 2015 22: 20
        Without touching the subject of the article, phrases from the context are ugly to pull out. If whole, then it looks like this:
        “Russia is ready to hand over to the Ukrainian military over 20 ships in Crimea when the appropriate decision is made,” a source at the headquarters of the Russian Navy told reporters.

        “As soon as peace is reached and a decision is made, we will withdraw more than 20 Ukrainian ships to neutral waters for transmission to representatives of the Navy (Ukrainian Navy),” he said.

        According to him, the Ukrainian ships are located in the deployment points of the Russian Black Sea Fleet, are completely isolated and are not involved in its daily activities, the Russian military ensures their safety. "
      17. ork
        ork
        +3
        1 July 2015 22: 21
        TARK is a class of ocean-going ships. He himself cannot participate in the campaigns. He needs a "support group". And they are NOT. Under the Union, there were bases in fraternal countries, there were specific goals on THAT side of the oceans - that's why such giants were built (by the way, its power reserve is not limited). In the current reality (for carrying the DB in their own waters) they are not needed. No shipyards, no specialists, no (most importantly) brains.
      18. +2
        1 July 2015 22: 43
        Honestly, I thought so that they would not modernize it. Nakhimov will be modernized until 2018, right after him, Petya will take up modernization. That is, even if the hands got to Lazarev, it would only be by the year 2023. What would have remained of Lazarev by then - xs. And it’s better not to take the place of the old man, but to build a leader instead of him - the money will probably be the same. Plus, we don’t have many places in shipyards for ships of the first rank. Sorry for the old man, but it was predictable. I hope that soon the first leader will be laid - it seems that the project is almost ready.
      19. 0
        1 July 2015 22: 50
        Quote: Old cat
        If so we will relate to ships then what for such a fleet is needed? Only drown money, it’s better to go to land and aviation

        There is some truth in almost any judgment.
        But the essence of truth is not specifically in this proposition.

        For reference.
        Fleet operation is a very expensive undertaking.
        About 4 years and operating costs are equalized with the cost of building a serial ship.
        So even 15 years of operation is already good, and there is nothing to kick the fleet here.
        Another thing is that sawing the golden hulls of perfectly fit ships with needles is a waste of abruptly primitive theft for the construction of palaces in the Canaries.
        The hull of a large ship can cost billions ... And nuclear power ...

        So you need to give an order to transfer the ship by the Northern Sea Route to Sevorodvinsk and you look after three or four years later, the Navy will again appear on the Navy envy of the enemies of Russia.

        Since airplanes and tanks in Sevorodvinsk do not repair the ship, they will not cause damage to the aviation and the ground forces.

        Another thing is if in Severodvinsk all production capacities are already scheduled for other facilities ...
      20. -4
        1 July 2015 23: 11
        they’ll also cut Petra in a short time, some prime minister will change sanctions for iPhones or stop it, and Lazarev, in order not to break, must be sold to the Chinese or Indians with an agreement to participate in the modernization, so that then Peter the First can be instigated
      21. +3
        1 July 2015 23: 27
        Quote: Old cat
        There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!

        Leave your absolutely working machine for five years on the street, and then try to start it at least just. Then you’ll understand everything. It is not regrettable, but reanimating it is more expensive or comparable than building a new one.
        1. +3
          1 July 2015 23: 48
          And if you leave this car also on the promenade in the coastal city .... It will be easier in five years to sweep it off the dustpan with a broom .. wink
    2. +4
      1 July 2015 18: 04
      The sad news. It can be seen that very much money will cost resuscitation. It’s easier to build something new.
      1. Arh
        -9
        1 July 2015 18: 12
        Of course it is sad !!! But if disposed of as a target, it will serve its purpose !!!
        1. +18
          1 July 2015 19: 21
          ... then as a target and will serve its service !!!

          ... only provided collect on the "target" all who -
          "... copied, sank in bases and sold for metal 629 warships and ships of the Russian fleet, of which 225 ships of the 1st and 2nd rank. But taking into account that here the data for surface ships are given only in 1997, and for submarines and auxiliary ships only up to 1995, the true figures are likely to exceed 800 ships and vessels of the Navy today."...
          am
          1. 0
            1 July 2015 22: 27
            ... only on condition that all those who are ...

            In my opinion, they won’t even clean up on such a colossus, although if you pack tightly ...
      2. dyksi
        +13
        1 July 2015 18: 52
        In general, before withdrawing from the fleet, ships (or any other weapons from the Armed Forces) build new ships and boats in the world and only then withdraw the old ones, but we have not built a single new destroyer or cruiser, and the darkness of ships has been utilized. The Sharks have also been disposed of, although they could have been converted into platforms for cruise missiles. The Ministry of Defense announced that it is ready to purchase several dozen MS-21s, which is not a small amount of money, and this at a time when the laying of destroyers is constantly being postponed, as well as the purchase of MiG-35 fighters, which the Armed Forces need much more than these super-expensive passenger aircraft. ... The ships are beautiful and can still serve for a long time after repair and modernization, just above nobody needs it. Geyropa dictates to them what ships can be built, that's why they build only watchdogs, and even with those problems, the Democrats missed everyone and also sing about the efficiency of the market economy, show it please, it is not there, one continuous scrapping of shipbuilding and aircraft construction, missiles fall, patrol boats one ship is under construction for almost ten years. Managers, they need to be thrown into the states in full force, at least for a week, then they will not be able to recover from their good deeds for two hundred years.
        1. +1
          1 July 2015 19: 09
          Quote: dyksi
          "Sharks" were also disposed of, although they could be converted into platforms for cruise missiles

          Nowhere. They need very large slipways, and they are occupied by Boreas and Ash-trees.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. SamSeBse
      +11
      1 July 2015 18: 05
      Sorry anyway. Beautiful and strong ship. One word - Cruiser!
      1. +7
        1 July 2015 19: 57
        Quote: SamSebe
        Sorry anyway. Beautiful and strong ship. One word - Cruiser!

        According to Western classification, 1144 is generally a battlecruiser, i.e. almost a battleship.
        1. +6
          1 July 2015 20: 55
          Quote: Nagan
          According to Western classification, 1144 is generally a battlecruiser, i.e. almost a battleship.

          And in our country Frunze was listed as a HEAVY ATOMIC ROCKET CRUISER, naturally 1 rank. soldier
    5. +4
      1 July 2015 18: 20
      this is very sad news, well now, if at the Pacific Fleet in a conflict in which ship will it be damaged and there will be nowhere to repair it?
      1. +3
        1 July 2015 18: 32
        If there is a conflict in the Pacific, our fleet will be doomed.
    6. +4
      1 July 2015 19: 22
      Here, the determining factor is the condition of the case, but it is apparently such that it is better not to repair it.
      1. +12
        1 July 2015 19: 32
        And for what, sorry, horseradish, he went dock repair a year ago? To write off?
        1. +5
          1 July 2015 19: 35
          To not drown directly against the wall!

          Look carefully at the photo, I think you can see how much water has poured in through the rotten bottom-side fittings!

          One of the main tasks in the dock repair was sealing outboard openings, which was done.
          1. +4
            1 July 2015 19: 59
            Thanks for the answer. Reaping means the fruits of 90's.
          2. +1
            1 July 2015 20: 04
            What holes were there that the divers couldn't handle? This is generally their standard work .. - they would have made all the holes for a month ... Was it really cheaper to drive a ship into the dock?
            1. +2
              1 July 2015 20: 14
              Firstly, the hull had to be cleaned and painted so as not to rot through. Without docking, you won’t be able to do this normally. Secondly, a large part of the outboard openings are in the bottom, and how do you imagine them being sealed by divers there?
              1. +2
                1 July 2015 20: 26
                But what, the diver can’t do welding under the ship’s bottom? The technology of welding and cutting metal under water has been known for a long time .. With cleaning and painting - here you are right, I didn’t think .. Most likely there was an examination and a lot more works that are more convenient in a dry dock. Stop. So, does he still have a dock for him at TOF? the problem is the lack of nuclear specialists? But you can make a power plant and bring it to the ship by the Northern Sea Route, if you can’t tow the ship to Severodvinsk ...
                1. +1
                  1 July 2015 21: 01
                  it was easier to pull out and slowly rush up everything. It will still need to be towed ...
                2. +1
                  1 July 2015 23: 18
                  And how are you going to bring the same sheet of steel to the water intake of, say, a desalination plant? Holding your hands above your head, and all this under the bottom?

                  Do not laugh, this operation without docking isn’t normal to do, what other divers then ...
                  1. 0
                    1 July 2015 23: 42
                    Have you read Gors Joseph's book Raising Shipwrecks? There are very well described various cases of diving work ... Specifically, on the topic, I confess, I do not know the specifics of the work carried out on the "Admiral Lazarev", therefore God bless them, with divers and welding under the bottom .. All the more, we are with you already seems to have figured out this issue above .. Thanks for the clarification!
      2. The comment was deleted.
    7. +10
      1 July 2015 19: 29
      Moreover, the 1 man told me clearly and clearly, with the hull of the ship there are problems, with the same Nakhimov he is in the best condition.
      1. +3
        1 July 2015 20: 28
        Therefore, Nakhimov and modernize, although he also stood in the sump for so many years. At least someone can normally explain the disposal of Lazarev hi and then solid moans
        1. +7
          1 July 2015 21: 26
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          At least someone can normally explain the recycling of Lazarev hi and then sheer moans

          I explain ..
          It can be repaired only in Severodvinsk. HO1. the place is occupied by Nakhimov. 2. Asterisk has Kirov .. his condition is much better than that of Lazarev. 3. Modernization is already required by Peter. At least in armaments and electronics.
          4. “Destroyer-type” projects are already ready, although it tends to be a tark. And it is necessary to decide .. Engage the shipyards with the construction of "type destroyers" Leader or almost completely disassemble, and then assemble the aircraft carrier Lazarev.
          A smart mind says - to modernize, what can be done at a price and time = building a new "type destroyer" is not very reasonable.
          1. +1
            1 July 2015 21: 33
            Quote: dvina71
            It can be repaired only in Severodvinsk.

            And what about NEW shipyards capable of building TARKs and ARKs? It seems that they are building and not even one ... although I did not "dig" this question seriously. request hi
          2. 0
            1 July 2015 21: 50
            Quote: dvina71
            I explain ..
            It can be repaired only in Severodvinsk. HO1. the place is occupied by Nakhimov. 2. Asterisk has Kirov .. his condition is much better than that of Lazarev. 3. Modernization is already required by Peter. At least in armaments and electronics.
            4. “Destroyer-type” projects are already ready, although it tends to be a tark. And it is necessary to decide .. Engage the shipyards with the construction of "type destroyers" Leader or almost completely disassemble, and then assemble the aircraft carrier Lazarev.
            A smart mind says - to modernize, what can be done at a price and time = building a new "type destroyer" is not very reasonable.

            I didn’t have a question, but the approval of the posts of Anton Gavrilov, about the state of Lazarev’s corps, but thank you too and + for the information good
          3. Russian phoenix
            +1
            2 July 2015 02: 29
            Quote: dvina71
            I explain ..
            It can be repaired only in Severodvinsk. HO1. the place is occupied by Nakhimov. 2. Asterisk has Kirov .. his condition is much better than that of Lazarev. 3. Modernization is already required by Peter. At least in armaments and electronics.
            4. “Destroyer-type” projects are already ready, although it tends to be a tark. And it is necessary to decide .. Engage the shipyards with the construction of "type destroyers" Leader or almost completely disassemble, and then assemble the aircraft carrier Lazarev.
            A smart mind says - to modernize, what can be done at a price and time = building a new "type destroyer" is not very reasonable.


            You in your competence, and at a level sufficient to us, explained what was happening ...

            But WHO will now explain why BEFORE SUCH allowed, and WHO will answer for this? ...
            1. +6
              2 July 2015 03: 16
              Who?
              Well, for example, I served in the USSR Armed Forces in 89-91, of which one and a half years in Cuba.
              He left one country and came to another .. empty shops, lines for the most necessary .. Then the Emergency Committee .. then where were you then and what did you do? Also craved sausages and jeans? No one came out to support them, they sat and waited. And now you ask - AND WHO IS THIS HERE GUILTY .. ??? !!!
              Yes, we are all to blame .. And those who supported the EBN and those who did not come out against him .., hoping - maybe they will carry it through ... THAT with our consent .. silent everything happened ..
              1. 0
                2 July 2015 03: 26
                Well, at 93 we went out and supported ... The question is not this, but the capabilities of those who do it.
                It would be possible to crush the demshiz only by letting it be completely ignored (especially nonparticipation in their games like the referendum on the preservation of the USSR, paradoxically), and punishing it before and after on every dark corner. These are specially-trained psychos, it is impossible with them otherwise. feel
                1. +2
                  2 July 2015 03: 40
                  Quote: Scraptor
                  Well, at 93 we went out and supported.

                  NO. It was necessary to take the red flags and go to support their army in August of the 91st .. Which entered the cities, but why .. xs .. Our support was not enough for them.
                  1. 0
                    2 July 2015 18: 56
                    Maybe it’s right, but the thing is different - only with flags, since there were such creeps, you can’t do it.
    8. +1
      1 July 2015 20: 56
      But a museum is not an option to make it? Like in Novorossiysk.
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      It’s better to dispose than wait until he drowns himself.
    9. Old cat
      0
      1 July 2015 21: 41
      Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
      It’s better to dispose than wait until he drowns himself.

      I’m talking about the site, Vadim has from advertising and what comes from advertising is we sheep, which we have already cut ...
      And as I would like Vadik Smirnov, Sasha Romanov to correct his face, however, there someone frolic about a funny face
      Forgot about the main thing!
      I'm not a dime !!! I spread rot and left, spread rot and smeared a wen in the face
      I'm nobody, I'm just watching
    10. 0
      2 July 2015 13: 48
      Let them put an equivalent system in operation ... the utilizers are bad
  2. mQn
    +12
    1 July 2015 18: 00
    Great were the ships!
  3. +14
    1 July 2015 18: 01
    Yes, that would be where the money spent on the "Mistral" would be useful ...
    1. +5
      1 July 2015 21: 05
      "The German shipbuilding company Nobiskrug is building the world's largest yacht for a Russian billionaire."

      "The cost of White Pearl was not disclosed, but CNBC believes that the amount will be nine figures. Melnichenko paid more than $ 2008 million for yacht A in 300."
      1. -7
        1 July 2015 22: 39
        The money of billionaires has nothing to do with the defense industry, they want it and buy it - that’s their money.
        1. +7
          1 July 2015 22: 56
          And why or whom did they rip off this money from?

          You still tell about honest deputies, whose wives, children, relatives do not fatten ...
          1. -2
            2 July 2015 09: 03
            Not all billionaires are thieves.
  4. +7
    1 July 2015 18: 02
    The General Staff must be disposed of, not the cruiser.
    1. +11
      1 July 2015 18: 08
      And recruit sorcerers, magicians and other magicians. You, apparently from them?
      Quote: vanya
      The General Staff must be disposed of, not the cruiser.

      Since in factory conditions it cannot be restored, then only magic and personally you can help. laughing
      1. Half-Blood
        0
        1 July 2015 21: 45
        Well, Vanya ... Understand and forgive!
    2. +8
      1 July 2015 19: 48
      Take for example the battleships Gangut, Petropavlovsk and Sevastopol. They regularly served in the First World War and in the Great Patriotic War. They were withdrawn from the fleet only in 54-56 years, that is, they were in operation for more than 40 years! Even the "Marat" ("Petropavlovsk") shot down by Rudel was restored by Stalin. And here is such extravagance! "They" have heard the word "modernization"? After all, it's always cheaper than building a ship from scratch. And in general, how could a nuclear-powered missile cruiser "become obsolete"? What kind of wording is this? That is, not in fashion, not in trend? It seems to me that "their" brain and conscience are outdated.
      1. +2
        3 July 2015 21: 58
        Modernization is far from always cheaper than building a new building. Sometimes it’s just not possible.
        Objectively - what's the point in TAKR !?
        With AUG - he will not cope, and he himself may "keel" from the blow of a couple of successful frigates.
        What moral effect will be from the loss of such a ship?

        Although a (certainly) devilishly beautiful ship!
        It will be a pity if it goes to the needles ...
  5. -3
    1 July 2015 18: 05
    ; excellent; news! without a knife, slaughtered ...
  6. +1
    1 July 2015 18: 05
    By the way, the frigates will apparently also be sawing. Chirkov is frank today. Amber makes a frigate for the Navy 3 and that’s it, then it switches to RTOs like that.

    Navy Commander: the lead ship of the 22800 project laid in the 2016 year

    Construction of frigates of the 11356 project will be suspended after the third ship due to non-delivery by Ukraine of engines for them, they will be replaced by small missile ships of the 22800 project with cruise missiles.

    RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20150701/1107232491.html
    1. +6
      1 July 2015 18: 15
      Suspended until new turbines appear.
      1. +1
        1 July 2015 19: 13
        the sixth there is no point in laying - then you can build 22350
    2. 0
      1 July 2015 23: 06
      Well, 11356 was ordered because they could be built quickly, unlike the new 22350, and since the second three could not be made quickly because of Ukrainian engines, there was no point in building them. Most likely, or still 2 more will be built, and 1 will be cut down or their hulls used for something else - for example, for the construction of export ships.
  7. +3
    1 July 2015 18: 07
    I am glad that at least new ships are entering the fleet, although I have not heard about nuclear
    1. +6
      1 July 2015 18: 18
      Well, 80 percent of what is now entering the fleet is minesweepers, auxiliary vessels, patrol, rescue and tugboats.
      1. +6
        1 July 2015 18: 50
        still forgot pleasure yachts and inflatable boats ..
  8. +2
    1 July 2015 18: 07
    Money for dock repair bye-bye ... And a handsome man on needles ... Maybe not true? I understand that emotions ... am
    1. +6
      1 July 2015 18: 21
      Evil, you do not like Russia ...! Ah, cheerful reports about the "acceptance tests" of the small fleet: boats, auxiliary ships (call them ships ?!) Well, let them be ships, a powerful border fleet (1 piece) ..., "frigates", landing ships (or ships?!) ... There is a great hope that the commanders of the nuclear submarine are not liberals !!! Sorry, it's boiling ...
      1. +6
        1 July 2015 18: 30
        ALABAY45;
        And, cheerful reports about "acceptance tests" of a small fleet: boats, auxiliary ships (call them ships ?!) Well, let them be ships, a powerful border fleet (1 piece) ..., "frigates", landing ships (or ships? !).

        What I constantly write in the eternal war with and d and about t and m and idiots!
        They will scream about achievement and breakthrough soon over the boat and liferaft!
        1. 0
          1 July 2015 21: 41
          I, too, with time, will report on the operating features of the Riviera 3800SK + NISSAN MARINE NS 9.8 B 1 (2-stroke), without photographs, cheerful reports ... I, at least catch fish, in contrast to "some" shipbuilders. ..
          1. -1
            2 July 2015 02: 07
            And what on such a vessel is only 9,8, I have 330 on a 9,9-Ohm.
            1. 0
              2 July 2015 11: 23
              I apologize for the flood, but did not succeed in keeping silent
              Quote: ALABAY45
              I, too, with time, will report on the operating features of the Riviera 3800SK + NISSAN MARINE NS 9.8 B 1 (2-stroke), without photographs, cheerful reports ... I, at least catch fish, in contrast to "some" shipbuilders. ..
  9. +6
    1 July 2015 18: 08
    As I understand it, only a couple of ships of this type remained. "Ushakov" and "Lazarev" for scrap. Unfortunately for all types of weapons the same mess. That aviation was exhausted in the 90s, that the fleet ...
    1. +1
      1 July 2015 18: 22
      Apparently the defense budget will be saved by canceling the previously planned modernization of large ships, and the construction of large ships, the Shkval destroyers, has been postponed by 2030.
      1. +3
        1 July 2015 18: 51
        Why so? Admiral Nakhimov is being modernized.
  10. krotov
    -39
    1 July 2015 18: 14
    Our condolences to you.
    Build new ones for the fleet, whose last victories date back to the times of Horatio Nelson.
    1. +4
      1 July 2015 18: 20
      Welcome, but minus you .... I think it’s not necessary to explain why why ....
    2. +8
      1 July 2015 18: 48
      "Your surname?" ... "K-k-k-rotov!" ... "Heil, Hitler!" ... "Heil, G-g-g-itler" ... Blow in the face: "Hitler , you need to pronounce it clearly! " (Film "Confrontation", 1985). Didn't look ?! I recommend... goodComparison and perception of what is happening, not really offended ?! Yes, even if offended, don't give a shit! Change the flag on your "nickname" and your avatar before it's too late ...!
      1. +8
        1 July 2015 19: 01
        I really didn’t know that Horatio Nelson was an admiral of the RIF wassat So, offhand ... Someone Ushakov was a contemporary of Nelson, but he did not have to lose his eyes, arms and legs to win. And even more so, to bring the battle to its own death. There was still a brig Mercury .. So, nonsense - to win the battle with two battleships - so it can any Krotov. In any toy. There was Nakhimov (the last battle of sailing ships).
        Well, and especially for those who are under the Union Jack -And what day are still celebrated by the non-renaissance warriors, tell me, eh? Wasn't it the same when the "five-minute" battleships of Germany sank half of the Grand Fleet, and only luck and miracle saved the fleet of your flag country?
        Quote from the Soviet film about the non-human "Name? KKrrotov"
    3. +8
      1 July 2015 21: 12
      Quote: krotov
      whose recent victories date back to the times of Horatio Nelson.
      Dear you are our well-wisher! Do not let me remember how the submarine "Panther" in 1918, in a shaggy year, lowered the destroyer "Vittoria" to the bottom under the same flag under which you today preach to us about the irrelevance of the Russian / Soviet fleet.
    4. 0
      2 July 2015 03: 45
      Learn the history of the Neanderthal man!
  11. +7
    1 July 2015 18: 19
    This situation, presumably, was created as a result of a general mess in the dashing 90s. Then many things were created and destroyed that were created under the Soviet Union due to lack of funds.
    Oh, sorry, did not save such a cruiser!
    He would be useful to Russia now.
    It's a shame to snot!
  12. +9
    1 July 2015 18: 25
    Hmm. One well-known company "Serdyukov, Vasilyeva and Partners" sawed off so much money that it would be enough to restore all the "Orlans", but why do we need such pranks, better a discount on gas, and we can rebuild Sochi-grad, in which the flood happened the other day to afford it that we, wild boars ...
    1. -3
      1 July 2015 18: 35
      For deep repair and modernization of this cruiser, 100 billion is needed.
      1. +15
        1 July 2015 18: 51
        You know, this is a matter of political will, first of all.
        If you really want to, then ..
        Shake Tolya Serdyukov, Tolya Chubais, take Nabiullina for patly, grab Yakunin and Siluanov for a fat scruff, and hint to Ulyukaev that his fat ass could go to Novaya Zemlya. Rotenbergs and Medvedev should be invited to explore the Kara Sea if they do not move. In the end, start seriously engaged in knocking out debts over the Mistral. To tell Miller that gas is better traded, everyone needs it.
        It is clear that all of the above is utopia and will not be so.
        That is why the handsome aircraft carrier of the "Orlan" type will be destroyed.
        You know, I would agree to its destruction if all of the above-mentioned persons (add another 50 smaller ones) were tightly brewed in the reactor compartment, put out to sea (we have plenty of water) and solemnly flooded to the sounds of the anthem.
      2. 0
        1 July 2015 19: 11
        Need production capacity. And they are not.
        1. +3
          1 July 2015 20: 45
          Quote: Dart2027
          Need production capacity. And they are not.

          Everything is simpler - no money.request
          But EMNIP, after Tsushima, there was a thing, they threw a cry among the people to raise money for the restoration of the fleet. And after all, they got a pretty penny on, I don’t remember at once how much specifically, but more of one battleship (or squadron battleship, which is basically the same). Note purely voluntary donations.
          And weakly, just dial on the redemption and repair of the Eagles? Or at least conservation, in the hope that sanctions and crises will not last forever, and when the thread in the treasury is scraped into production facilities for repair.
          Or in Russia, the patriotic upsurge stops at the same level as a pocket?
          And if you don't like the experience of tsarist times, then here are the Stalinist times. After the war, government bonds were distributed "for the restoration and development of the national economy." It is possible even now to release, but not in the general "national economy", but target ones - to the same fleet. Individuals with low incomes sign up voluntarily, while those with high income can sign up voluntarily and compulsorily.
          1. 0
            1 July 2015 21: 36
            Nevertheless, by the beginning of the WWII the shipbuilding program was not completed. And Stalin did not have time to build a fleet by the beginning of WWII. Money is a means of payment, but they themselves do not produce anything.
      3. 0
        2 July 2015 09: 26
        why did the comrade go wrong? after all, this is only an assumption.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +9
      1 July 2015 18: 57
      One salary of friends in 500 000 per day would be enough to build a new one with the need of Orlan in the newest configuration!
      When an official or a merchant receives thousands and tens of thousands of times more than a worker for work, this is theft.
      Return to the treasury (not personally in the pocket of every citizen!) The stolen one and it is possible to build space cruisers and not only Orlans!
      1. -3
        1 July 2015 19: 05
        Where did the firewood come from? Can you throw a link to official salary data? Or just convenient for you to think so. I do not deny that there are really big salaries, but the information must be confirmed if you are not a troll.
        1. +3
          1 July 2015 22: 04
          Here is the "average temperature in the hospital":
          http://daily.rbc.ru/special/society/17/02/2015/54e2f3139a79474577b095b7
          It was not in vain that they obtained permission not to publish such data, so that people would not be disturbed apparently. Therefore, you are unlikely to find official data ...
          1. -2
            1 July 2015 23: 13
            I post here a message, originally addressed to Grandfather Bear in a personal reply to his message (also to me in a personal). With minor modifications.

            So, I found the official data. Document of April 24, 2015.
            Цитата: http://www.rosneft.ru/attach/0/57/72/BP2-03_S-0132_UL-001.pdf
            Part one, "Terms and definitions"
            OFFICIAL WAGES - a fixed amount of cash payment per month, which is paid to the employee for the performance of official duties.

            ...

            Part three, "Official salary"
            3.2. The size of the salary of top managers is established in the following limits:
            - for the President of Rosneft OJSC - from 15 up to 20 million rubles;


            Take the worst case for us and the best case for Sechin. February, 28 days. The monthly salary is 20 million rubles. 20/28 = 0,71 million rubles a day.
            And on your picture (it is above) are indicated 6 млн (rublesprobably not Mongolian tugriks) in a day.
            6 / 0,71 = 8,4
            Your numbers 8,4 times overpriced... This is what I meant by "where did the firewood come from?" and "can you post a link to the official salary data?"
            I repeat, this is not Sechin’s defense. They really get too much. This is a recommendation to handle facts with care. And it will turn out like Navalny’s - 1,5 trillion rubles were allegedly spent on the Olympics (https://youtu.be/IOevV_xk5bY?t=46s).
            1. +4
              1 July 2015 23: 50
              It's not about salary, but about what monthly income from managers. RBC quote:
              Rosneft became the leader in the list of remuneration paid to executives for the first time, publishing the aggregate income of its board members headed by Igor Sechin. At the same time, of the 215,3 million rubles that each of the 13 top managers of the company received on average, only 27% account for salaries. The rest are premiums (43% of the total), “other types of remuneration” (another 30%) and compensation for expenses.

              Read more at RBC:
              http://daily.rbc.ru/special/society/17/02/2015/54e2f3139a79474577b095b7
              1. -5
                2 July 2015 00: 28
                No, it’s about salary - the propaganda picture above contains the word “salary”, not “income”.
                1. +2
                  2 July 2015 08: 31
                  You apparently do not understand the difference between salary and salary. And if I tell you that the salary can be several times the salary? Will you believe If not, fill in the gaps in this area.
      2. +7
        1 July 2015 19: 05
        I completely agree with you. Horseradish, as they say with citizens, does not return back to our pockets. But for the kind of money that all this Caudle gets, you can not only churn out "Eagles" and "Sharks", but build at least a "Death Star" in orbit, bring water to the moon, give everyone in need the simplest housing, start up trains on a magnetic pillow, to establish the production of domestic products and still remain.
        1. 0
          2 July 2015 09: 09
          There’s definitely not enough money for everything - you don’t need to count other people's money.
  13. +2
    1 July 2015 18: 27
    There are no brains not in the leadership of the fleet, not in the ministry, even if the models melt on it and he swims around the cubes, the Americans will boil until shit, and so it’s easy to scrape everything. And if we wage war on inflatable boats.
    1. +1
      1 July 2015 18: 38
      We'll have to fight on inflatable boats, new large, warships will not be built with us very soon.
  14. 0
    1 July 2015 18: 29
    I read the comments. Apart from banter, no one said anything. I’m far from a sailor, purely land, but there are specific sailors on the site, I’m interested in this question: a ship is expensive, there’s a cruiser with AD. Reprofiling in any way? Only recycling? Maybe for specialists and a dumb question, I just looked at the handsome man and it became a pity.
    1. +10
      1 July 2015 18: 54
      You can upgrade anything you want, but this is when there is a GOAL, a development strategy for the Navy, finances, and most importantly human capacities (factory workers, designers, etc.)! We managed to ditch 4 hulls of titanium nuclear submarines 945 (Barracuda, Kostroma), 945a (Nizhny Novgorod, Pskov) of the project !!! The cases of these submarines are from TITINA! 100 years at least. What if that is what we will defend? Boats, MRK, SKR? am Sorry, it’s painful ... It's a pity the ship, then that until 2030 hell to us, and not the ocean and, most importantly, combat-ready fleet.
      1. -1
        1 July 2015 19: 11
        Sergey, thanks for the answer, but I'm not talking about the further operation of the cruiser on a naval scale. Remove all unnecessary, cut the partitions necessary for the naval ship, alteration will be a civilian ship, the hull is decent. But, I repeat, I am a land one, and I will endure stinging comments.
        1. +2
          1 July 2015 19: 35
          The point is that for a deep modernization you need a big dock. And he is simply not in the Far East. And in Severodvinsk there is, but he is busy.
          1. 0
            1 July 2015 19: 50
            But is it real? And will it be cheaper to build a new ship?
            1. +1
              1 July 2015 20: 09
              The point is that even if you peel it all from the inside and replace part of the hull, it’s all the same faster than building a new ship of this class in the current situation .. Russia is now able to build only nuclear submarines .. with surface ships of large displacement - this is a matter of seams. .. But certainly not cheaper ..
              1. +1
                1 July 2015 23: 57
                I agree with you. So far we only know how to build DPLs in our city in St. Petersburg and somehow harnessed ourselves to strategists. With multi-purpose nuclear submarines while an ambush. NK 1,2 rank we are not capable yet. Unless piece by piece.
      2. 0
        1 July 2015 20: 32
        However, they are modernizing Nakhimov, and this is Orlan
      3. 0
        2 July 2015 09: 34
        the question is, do these boats no longer go?
  15. +19
    1 July 2015 18: 30
    The cruiser "Admiral Lazarev" will be disposed of in 2016 g

    It seems that the patient is more likely dead than alive. "Drop dead and what are we left with? From ships of the first or second rank in the ranks:
    SF-our most powerful fleet:
    1 TAKR "Admiral of the Fleet of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov", with an incomplete air group (8 Su-233), with missing "Granites", which on May 14 stopped at the 82nd shipyard in the village of Roslyakovo (in the vicinity of Severomorsk, Murmansk region) docked on repairs.
    1 TARKR pr. 1144.2 "Peter the Great", the second "Admiral Nakhimov" (former Kalinin "is currently not capable of combat) is being repaired and modernized until 2018." Admiral Ushakov "(formerly" Kirov ") has already been decommissioned, and after it is being written off and "Admirla Lazarev" (former "Frunze". A total of 4 TARKRs have 1 in service and one under repair.
    3 RRC pr. 1164: 1 SF ("Marshal Ustinov"), 1-Black Sea Fleet ("Moscow"), 1-Pacific Fleet (Varyag "), of which" Marshal Ustinov "is undergoing repairs and modernization by the end of this year. the end of the year was to be occupied by Moskva, however, due to the disruptions in the delivery time of the SKR pr. 11356 and the fire at the BOD pr. 1134B "Kerch", which led to the decision to dismantle the ship, it was decided to postpone the repair until next year.
    7 BOD pr. 1155 (3 Northern Fleets and 4 Pacific Fleets), of which the Vice-Admiral Kulakov (SF) is undergoing repairs, the engine was replaced, and the Admiral Tributs (Pacific Fleet), according to the plan, was to leave on June 30 from repair, we will look, no messages have been received yet. Ie .. in the dry residue 5
    1 BOD pr. 1155.1 "Admiral Chabanenko" (SF) is our only ship that can be safely called a destroyer under repair until the end of next year.
    3 destroyers pr. 956 (BF, Northern Fleet. Pacific Fleet) - due to problems with the DCU, which in fact became ships of the near sea zone. "The Baltic" Nastoichivy "- with tugs only goes to the test ranges near Baltiysk. Svalbard, Pacific "Rapid2 further than Shanghai."
    2 TFR pr. 11540 (BF), of which "Fearless" is being repaired and modernized until the middle of next year, followed by "Yaroslav the Wise" for repairs, those. while alone
    1 BOD pr. 01090 "Sharp-witted", devoted to the fleet already in 1969, I hope that it will finally receive the X-35 "Uranus" missile launcher, to its launchers removed from the decommissioned "R-44" RCA, to which the route cable was not even connected ...
    SKR pr. 1135 "Ladny" and SKR pr. 1135M "Pytlivy" - outdated ships, with weak air defense (2 SAM "OSA-MA"), frightening foes will do, but in real combat, in the best case, "missile catchers"
    Total we have-19 ships, of which only 12 are in the ranks, of which 3 are completely obsolete ships ... At the same time, we write off TARKR pr. 1144-GREAT NOW ...
    1. +4
      1 July 2015 18: 58
      point number 1 especially pleased me ... I hope that this whole list will be useful to local goofs who want to conquer Mexico or even prevent the American fleet in the oceans ...
  16. -3
    1 July 2015 18: 30
    The insanity grows stronger: 15-year-old ships go to "needles", others - to ukronatsikam. On the other hand, the liberals, headed by the "main liberal," have a rating of 89%. 11% of patriots remained in Russia. A sad sight.
    1. +4
      1 July 2015 18: 41
      11% of patriots laughing

      it is sad when a "patriot" hangs labels on 89% of the population of his country
      I forgot which of the patriots still did

      Well, Alyosha Navalny also sad that the people are so dense. Well, now he will not be so bored.

      PS It seems I remembered that patriot who wanted to change people in the country



      drinks

      Oh, and while I inserted the link, I remembered a couple of patriots



      it's hard for you patriots to live in such a misunderstood country laughing

    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +1
      1 July 2015 22: 46
      The American fleet, the first days of battle, will completely destroy our entire fleet.
  17. +5
    1 July 2015 18: 34
    The news is unpleasant, but even if all of our sorrows, the high cost of modernization, the unavailability of enterprises and the difficulty of transportation to the manufacturer’s enterprise are discarded, I would like to ask a question, why was it worth spending money on dock repair? Although, of course, it was convenient, they took the money, and it was not known whether the repair was known, because the ship was disposed of. The scheme is eternal for our Navy. Sincerely.
    1. +3
      1 July 2015 19: 06
      Quote: akribos
      the difficulty of transportation to the manufacturer’s enterprise,
      the whole difficulty lies in the fact that our icebreakers carry foreign tourists to the North Pole, or are chartered by foreign scientists for expeditions, instead of working in their own country .. That's all .. They would simply say - there is no money. Yes, under the bed at the Sakhalin governor there would be enough money in person to send the entire Pacific Fleet to Murmansk and back more than once ..
  18. +14
    1 July 2015 18: 35
    Great news from the category of innovation and nanotechnology .. angry Airplanes fly for 40 years .. and here is such a ship .. What was it, when cutting out the reactors, was irradiated dull? And is it really such an overwhelming task - during the summer navigation period to take it with an icebreaker "on the mustache" and lead it along the Northern Sea Route to Severodvinsk? No power plant? Take reactors from nuclear submarines, from the icebreaker fleet .. (they are going to build new nuclear-powered ships and modernize old ones.) In the end, but do not cut the ship! As far as I understand, there are simply no specialists in the Far East, no opportunity to carry out such work .. In the conditions of a catastrophic shortage of large ocean-going ships, if it is impossible to lay new ones, sending such a ship for scrap is more like sabotage or fraud .. Yes what there .. sell it to China! He will find a dock for repairs and ship vehicles .. By the way .. there is no way to take away to Severodvinsk - take it to China, rent a dock there and repair the chassis and hull work there .. - and supply reactors and weapons with us .. -What not an option? And then how to lease Transbaikalia for 50 years to the Chinese is so easy .. -that's let them provide production facilities at a discount ..
    1. +2
      1 July 2015 19: 01
      So I asked about what, is it necessary to dispose of? Are there no more options? Or is there, but no desire to use them? Or again someone's pocket?
      1. +1
        1 July 2015 19: 26
        Most likely, the phrase "morally outdated" carries a sad statement of the fact that ships of this class are simply very good targets with the current development of anti-ship strike weapons .. And then, even if this is not quite so, how much more profitable is it to "stir up" the mega super- a duper project with STEALTH technologies and other buns, (recently they wrote here about those who want to build and replace the Mistrals, and the aircraft carrier project) on which you can famously earn and haul it for 10 years .. I agree that Severodvinsk is physically unable to help alone to all four of our fleets ... Again, the defensive nature of our doctrine - here they would cover their shores, not before ocean campaigns ... But .. Most likely, something's pocket ..
        1. +1
          1 July 2015 20: 42
          However, Nakhimov is on modernization, and Peter is next at the reception. There is nothing wrong with stealth technology. New frigates and corvettes are being built using them
  19. +3
    1 July 2015 18: 41
    Why then repaired last year. Or as it often happens with us, at first they do, then they think.
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. +1
        1 July 2015 19: 56
        With the Sharks, everything was decided completely and irrevocably, if we talk about the 2's not running in Severodvinsk-scrap.
  20. +6
    1 July 2015 18: 54
    A comrade on Lazarev served, this news will not please him. A unique series of ships with such a bleak fate, horseradish reformers, democrats ....
  21. +1
    1 July 2015 18: 58
    Sad news, if true. Last year, there were rumors that Lazarev would be modernized. True, again there were rumors that there was something with the engines (HZ). But the decision to dispose is sad. Ships of this class have never been superfluous. Of course, if the cost of restoration and modernization is prohibitive (which we do not know) then this is at least understandable
  22. +4
    1 July 2015 19: 00
    I think the real reason is the banal lack of money. It would be better for the money that they spent on the Mistral, combat ships would be modernized. And so no money, no ships. And most importantly, no one is to blame.
    1. +3
      1 July 2015 19: 42
      The true reason is not a banal lack of money, but their illiterate and irresponsible use!
  23. +6
    1 July 2015 19: 02
    It is a pity Lawrence is not now, and comrade. Stalin ... Well, you can’t ruin everything in the Navy like that !!! Brothers that do something ... Even if 50% of the truth in the article, the picture is worthless. 15 years for such a ship is a youth. What will we defend ourselves with, if what? The Chinese would be given at least, so they would have put it into operation in 3-4 years.
  24. +5
    1 July 2015 19: 04
    Well, just YOUNG !!!!! But they ordered the Mistral, the partners will support, as VVP said. UUUUU just insanity !!!! After Tsushima, there were more brains !!!!
  25. +3
    1 July 2015 19: 05
    What we do not keep, having lost we cry !!! It is very sad to watch the code of the people's property so criminally destroyed because of the mediocrity and miscalculations of the government, although they are no longer in power, but the consequences of their activities are still affecting for a long time and after they leave the effect of a "chain reaction" that must be resolutely stopped !!!
  26. +2
    1 July 2015 19: 11
    Do not immediately bang your head against the wall, maybe the decision will be changed before the end of the year.
  27. +2
    1 July 2015 19: 13
    Why Lazarev, and not the older Ushakov? request
    Here's some more "good" news. Project 11356 FSE ended. http://prokhor-tebin.livejournal.com/890821.html

    PS We need more gas discounts and more demilitarized zones, right?
    1. +1
      1 July 2015 22: 49
      Ushakov will also be allowed for scrap - a decision has already been made.
  28. 0
    1 July 2015 19: 18
    It must be turned into a museum for the education of future generations, and turned into scrap.
    1. +9
      1 July 2015 19: 24
      Quote: professor
      It must be turned into a museum for the education of future generations, and turned into scrap.

      It is very true professor and to post in this museum photographs of all "thieves" such as Chubais, Gaidar, Berezovsky, Abramovich, Gusinsky, Prokhorov, and so on who "plundered" our country, its army and navy so that our descendants would never forget about it and allowed "them" to come to power.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +3
          1 July 2015 21: 44
          Quote: professor
          I'm releasing a rifle from an emergency

          Respected! Is that you about me ?????????? belay
          Well, let's see how much your high grace is still enough! am
      2. +7
        1 July 2015 19: 49
        You missed a couple of dozen. And as the removal of my comment shows, there are lovers of these thieves among the moderators.
        1. +4
          1 July 2015 20: 05
          Quote: Grandfather Bear
          You missed a couple of dozen. And as the removal of my comment shows, there are lovers of these thieves among the moderators.

          Well, I only listed the most "noticeable" smile
    2. +3
      1 July 2015 19: 45
      Professor, why are you doing this? - After all, the museum also needs to be kept .., watchmen, ticket service, cleaning staff and tour guides .. It’s easier to do ... - like Stalin and Beria .. - to call on the Pacific Fleet to serve a couple of sons of oligarchs and officials, ascribe to this ship and Do not give leave to leave until the first ocean trip .. - I think that the modernization of the cruiser would have passed in record time even for the Stalin era .. Is it not in vain that almost everyone who was near campsites near Vissarionitch on the Mausoleum? - it helped a lot in governing the country ..
      1. -6
        1 July 2015 19: 53
        Quote: Dikson
        Professor, why are you doing this? - After all, the museum also needs to be kept .., watchmen, tickets, cleaners and guides ..

        The public will pay with their money. Do not be shy to learn good from the bourgeoisie.

        Quote: Dikson
        . Not in vain, after all, almost everyone who was near the Vissarionovich on the Mausoleum had relatives in the camps who got into trouble? - it helped a lot in governing the country ..

        This method does not work. Died Stalin and Beria died and the system collapsed.


        клик
        1. +3
          1 July 2015 20: 16
          Quote: professor
          The public will pay with their money. Do not be shy to learn good from the bourgeoisie.

          Damn, and I was racking my brains all the time - how much money was used to tear the Aurora off the concrete bed, sprinkle a new bottom and restore the ship's engine! It's clear now! - It was Prokhorov with the company that took a walk on it once, a scandal arose, and immediately the money to restore the Aurora appeared .. So the method works!
        2. +2
          1 July 2015 21: 53
          Quote: professor
          The public will pay with their money.

          Look at the population density at the Far East! This is not San Francisco! Well, they go 1-2 times - that's all! If only "kitaisa" will help with visits!
          1. 0
            2 July 2015 06: 48
            Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
            Look at the population density at the Far East! This is not San Francisco! Well, they go 1-2 times - that's all! If only "kitaisa" will help with visits!

            Put it at least on the Moscow River. It would be a desire.
    3. +5
      1 July 2015 21: 41
      Quote: professor
      It must be turned into a museum for the education of future generations, and turned into scrap.

      Hello professor!
      Oleg is very glad that you returned from the * black list *! There will be something to talk about.
      Yes, about the museum. This is very troublesome and unpromising for the fleet, or something. Of course, patriotism, etc. But! a) repair - many mln; b) content n.b. due to self-sufficiency - at the Pacific Fleet it’s not real!
      So it turns out: the idea is beautiful, noble, patriotic, but economically - flawed.
      The fleet is poor! And there are no sponsors of this magnitude. Alikperov's "eggs" are closer to PR, etc. And what will you take from the fleet? Only losses!hi
      1. -2
        2 July 2015 06: 49
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Fleet is a beggar

        But what about getting up from your knees, the Olympics, the World Cup, etc.? wink
        1. +3
          2 July 2015 07: 07
          Quote: professor
          But what about getting up from your knees, the Olympics, the World Cup, etc.?

          Oleg, how can you? wassat This is a blow below the belt! laughing
          1. +4
            2 July 2015 07: 10
            Quote: Bongo
            Oleg, how can you? This is a blow below the belt!

            I am a naval officer. I do not care about the Olympics, the World Cup and other window dressings when they do this with a warship.
            1. +1
              2 July 2015 14: 13
              Quote: professor
              I am a naval officer. I do not care about the Olympics, the World Cup and other window dressings when they do this with a warship.

              I understand you! I feel about the same feelings seeing what happened to our air defense system.
  29. +3
    1 July 2015 19: 20
    Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
    Here's some more "good" news. Project 11356 FSE ended. http://prokhor-tebin.livejournal.com/890821.html

    SUSPENDED, but not over. Most likely they will find a way out, although they had to look for it 10 years ago, at least. Hoping in a neighboring country that it will supply something for your navy is stupid. At least in the Strategic Missile Forces understood this in the mid-90s and began to deploy production on its territory

    Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
    Why Lazarev, and not the older Ushakov?

    Ushakov is also disposed of
  30. -3
    1 July 2015 19: 26
    If desired, it can be converted to a training ship, and let the young sailors learn, always have time to cut. winked
  31. The comment was deleted.
  32. 0
    1 July 2015 19: 28
    [quote = Old cat] Krandets, in 84 went into operation, and in 99 removed !!! 15 years!!!
    There are no words, the Soviet jigs are still running, and then TARK !!!
    [/ quote] [/ quote]

    And the jigs that run into the sea? Kakbe distinguish between marine and terrestrial environments.

    And the technical equipment is incompatible.
  33. +10
    1 July 2015 19: 29
    Idiocy strikes

    First we carry out "Last December, Lazarev underwent a dock repair at the Pacific Fleet’s 30th Shipyard."and then we make a decision"the ship will be disposed of".
    It’s like first making repairs in the old house and then tearing it down.
    For me, if the dock repair has passed, then the decision on disposal can be postponed for several years. Otherwise, then you will have to wring your hands "why did we drown him."
    It will take ten years for modern Russian shipbuilders to build even a similar building.
    For almost half a century, iron has been used by Americans (repair). They both developed the Nimitz type of aircraft carrier hull in 1968, as aircraft carriers were produced in this hull until 2009.
    And we have been working hard for years to develop the hull so that the streamlining of the hull is better by hundredths of a percent and then we catch the jambs for years.
    Breakthrough things can only be dealt with when holes in the industry are patched (as in UVZ in the tank direction).
    The fleet is an expensive pleasure and scattering such ships a crime.
  34. +2
    1 July 2015 19: 34
    Sadly, what can I say ...
  35. 0
    1 July 2015 19: 35
    A little off topic, but I advise you to read. Strongly said. http://stockinfocus.ru/2015/06/30/ya-russkij-otkrytoe-pismo-vsem-ukraincam/
  36. +1
    1 July 2015 19: 46
    sad of course .. the fleet contains an expensive pleasure. you need a lot of ships at our borders and there is still an underwater fleet .. probably frigates and corvettes are also riveting. so cheaper and faster. and there’s nothing to swim soon in the ocean .. sad
  37. 0
    1 July 2015 19: 54
    you need to replenish, then dispose of already. although it would be 1 to 1. and then how do we get dill ....
  38. +3
    1 July 2015 20: 09
    Zh.D. made a gift for the day Navylousy dogs!
  39. +1
    1 July 2015 20: 18
    Someone blurted out the news from the section at the exit, and the elephant's loggers pile.
    There is no official solution for disposal, this time what , for disposal, the dough is probably more necessary than for the wiring to Sevsk, two, they will make Petra in the 21st, according to the plan, if, after Nakhimov, and then there will be a turn for Lazarev, three.
  40. +7
    1 July 2015 20: 23
    Fans of the disposal of warships should, at their leisure, look at the Philadelphia base of the US Navy. There still artillery iron from the 50s is preserved. Everything is greased and shiny like a cat's round details. soldier
  41. +1
    1 July 2015 20: 44
    Quote: ALEA IACTA EST
    It’s better to dispose than wait until he drowns himself.

    Sawed - you can’t collect it anymore !!!! Better to upgrade, even in time !!!
  42. +3
    1 July 2015 20: 49
    I wanted to write something evil, but there are no such censorship words. How can you cut such Ships? The story with "Buran" did not teach anything.
    1. -5
      1 July 2015 22: 55
      Which means how such ships can be cut - just like the 941 submarines, everything is metal, but then a dozen corvettes and frigates will be made of this scrap.
      1. 0
        27 November 2016 15: 57
        Perhaps I will agree with you, but dreams of Russian aircraft carriers flash. The Japanese, by the way, during the 2nd World War (just like the Americans), aircraft carriers considered the threat, it turned out to be correctly considered. Conclusion: 18 aircraft carriers of the USA were killed (18 in total !!!!) and where is the USA, and our guns are longer and thicker, and women don’t miss! This is me for fun. For every tricky one ... there’s a big and fat one (well, and then, as your fantasy tells you.)
  43. +2
    1 July 2015 20: 55
    what are you doing ... such a ship and scrapped ?!
  44. +1
    1 July 2015 21: 08
    It is interesting, but if you sell it to China or India as scrap metal or scrap metal, it will not sail fully armed tomorrow ???
  45. 0
    1 July 2015 21: 10
    Quote: Valter1364
    Fans of the disposal of warships should, at their leisure, look at the Philadelphia base of the US Navy. There still artillery iron from the 50s is preserved. Everything is greased and shiny like a cat's round details. soldier

    The same system worked in conjunction. All tanks were cut into metal during disposal, and barrels, often with towers, never!
  46. +2
    1 July 2015 22: 17
    I waited for so many years, and then suddenly there is no way to wait five years, something does not fit. Apparently they are lying that there will be opportunities for repairs "only" in five years. Transportation to Severomorsk is also not God knows what a difficult task for such a ship, it is only normal to prepare, there is a dock. In addition, he was recently docked with the repair of outboard fittings and painting, money down the drain? Most likely someone had their eyes on the iron, or someone decided to weaken the potential of the Navy, traitors at all levels are like fleas on a mongrel.
    1. +2
      2 July 2015 00: 46
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Transportation to Severomorsk is also not a god news what a difficult task

      * Transportation * is not a false task. Towing is difficult. With W more than 10 thousand tons, the senior on the towed ship is responsible for it. So there it will be necessary to plant a camp headquarters. This time.
      Second. Why Severomorsk? and not to Severodvinsk !? Or all the same in the letter "C", and then they will figure it out!
      Well, and the weather. This is three! An empty high-sided ship in the wind will collect the entire caravan on board, along with tugboats. This has happened more than once.
      And so - everything is simple! Grind with tongue - do not roll bricks!
  47. 0
    1 July 2015 22: 34
    The sad news is, it turns out that only 2 Orlans will be in service, and this is not enough.
    We cannot build a similar ship, but they want to cut the one that is on conservation.
  48. 0
    1 July 2015 22: 51
    I read somewhere a year ago that repairs would cost 50 billion. Do you need a ship for such an amount that leaves a maximum of 30 years, then the hull will decay, rarely does anyone go older than 60.
    1. 0
      27 November 2016 15: 47
      How old is Missouri? No answer needed.
  49. +1
    1 July 2015 22: 55
    ORLAN status project !!!
  50. -3
    2 July 2015 00: 23
    I recommend to all the foping, ananizing and other couch strategists, am, room rhymes, and an extra-class Internet pro who own information from the offices of the Moscow Region and who are sitting in the same room with the Supreme - write a petition about how you resent about the disposal of Lazarev.
    You know better what to do with it, you know every bolt in it.
    Come on, clowns.
    1. +2
      2 July 2015 05: 05
      For me "SUPREME" is the Lord God!
      And, this "miracle-YUDO" counting itself as the substitute of the Lord God on the territory of RUSSIA - Private Mental Organization, in abbreviated form -, CH.M.O.
  51. +1
    2 July 2015 03: 55
    Everything is our way!!! according to the army - carry out dock repairs!!!!/why? / then write it off, are they sick or something?
    1. +2
      2 July 2015 06: 04
      They are not "sick".
      They are ENEMIES!
  52. 0
    2 July 2015 05: 01
    Question? What are these articles for and to whom? Humiliate and insult us? Divide our community?
    Exactly!!! This is the main goal of such publications! And not in delivering “news”.
    This is how we should perceive them. As "enemy typists".
  53. 0
    2 July 2015 05: 11
    The ship is new "from the old ones". Rocket launchers in stacks below deck!
    This means that we will restore STARPERS like “Nakhimov” (well, the exhaust on the money there is COOLER), and newer projects will be in swing....
    And, God forbid... if the Leader of All Nations rises - I.V. Stalin?
    Do you feel... where will “our” “supreme” people and those like them be then?
  54. +1
    2 July 2015 05: 21
    The bastards got rid of such a ship!
  55. 0
    2 July 2015 05: 35
    in this world everything comes to an end...
    1. 0
      2 July 2015 05: 48
      I hope your “end” is not yet upon you.
      If you want to write, write, and don’t “sympathize” like all the new brethren.
  56. 0
    2 July 2015 08: 02
    Symptomatically, they changed the old name and the ship was laid up. What was wrong with the name "Frunze". A wonderful person, uncompromised even in the eyes of the white bourgeoisie. And Democrats know how to recycle.
    1. 0
      27 November 2016 15: 43
      When did you get up for fun?
  57. +1
    2 July 2015 09: 11
    For 1985 and 2003, there were respectively: a total of 703 and 146 surface combat ships, including 380 and 70 in the ocean and sea zones. Losses for ships of all classes over these years amounted to 557 units; for ships in the ocean and sea zones - 310 units. In the Battle of Tsushima, fleet losses amounted to 26 ships and vessels. During the year of reforms, fleet losses amount to about one and a half Tsushima, or 20 Tsushima for all the years of reform. In the far sea and ocean zones, surface ships “have nothing to do” without aircraft carriers with fighter aircraft, leaving only the coastal and close sea zone with cover from coastal aviation. That is, the Russian fleet with its surface component has actually become a coastal one. "Wars of the 21st century." M. Trebin, 2005. Further, it is predicted that the fleet will “collapse” by 2015 in terms of the number of ships and auxiliary vessels, which is what we see today. So it turns out that ships in the ocean zone are simply not needed without air cover, and the “cover” will be built by 2050 and the fleet will be coastal until 2050. You can downvote, but the facts will not cease to be facts.
    1. 0
      2 July 2015 19: 24
      It’s strange, RN converted civilian ships into aircraft carriers in 1982 in a couple of weeks... And in 1992 Lockheed “bought” something from the Russian Federation. bully
  58. 0
    2 July 2015 11: 41
    Well, seamen? Great news!! Happy Navy Day, so to speak! It’s strange, why did it rust so quickly? Or did they select such special steel for it? It’s like “Ustinov stood next to the same wall in Severomorsk with Kirov and the difference in joining the fleet was small and he didn’t rust? Push Frunze to the Chinese - in a year he will scare the Japanese
    1. 0
      3 July 2015 07: 14
      Most likely this is exactly the point. They will give it to their “brothers forever” for the price of scrap metal...
  59. 0
    27 November 2016 15: 26
    The nuclear cruiser served only 15 years? There is nothing in stock except swearing!
  60. 0
    27 November 2016 15: 37
    opus,
    Agree. It’s problematic to argue about energy with a metallurgist, and even with a Chinese about tea it’s a real no-brainer. This is not about the composition of the cruiser’s metal, but about its fate. About 15 years of service, where he even managed to check in, what kind of campaigns he was on, or stood at the pier (like my nephew, the sailor for 2 years never took a step on the deck). that's what it's about. My opinion: don’t go to scrap!

"Right Sector" (banned in Russia), "Ukrainian Insurgent Army" (UPA) (banned in Russia), ISIS (banned in Russia), "Jabhat Fatah al-Sham" formerly "Jabhat al-Nusra" (banned in Russia) , Taliban (banned in Russia), Al-Qaeda (banned in Russia), Anti-Corruption Foundation (banned in Russia), Navalny Headquarters (banned in Russia), Facebook (banned in Russia), Instagram (banned in Russia), Meta (banned in Russia), Misanthropic Division (banned in Russia), Azov (banned in Russia), Muslim Brotherhood (banned in Russia), Aum Shinrikyo (banned in Russia), AUE (banned in Russia), UNA-UNSO (banned in Russia), Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar People (banned in Russia), Legion “Freedom of Russia” (armed formation, recognized as terrorist in the Russian Federation and banned)

“Non-profit organizations, unregistered public associations or individuals performing the functions of a foreign agent,” as well as media outlets performing the functions of a foreign agent: “Medusa”; "Voice of America"; "Realities"; "Present time"; "Radio Freedom"; Ponomarev; Savitskaya; Markelov; Kamalyagin; Apakhonchich; Makarevich; Dud; Gordon; Zhdanov; Medvedev; Fedorov; "Owl"; "Alliance of Doctors"; "RKK" "Levada Center"; "Memorial"; "Voice"; "Person and law"; "Rain"; "Mediazone"; "Deutsche Welle"; QMS "Caucasian Knot"; "Insider"; "New Newspaper"