The elusive "Barguzin": a big surprise for the United States

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In the next five years, Russia will have a new "weapon retaliation "- the Barguzin battle railway missile systems. Appearing from “out of nowhere”, these rocket trains will be able to deliver a crushing retaliation against the territory of any adversary.

Last week, the first International Military-Technical Forum "Army-2015" was held in Kubinka (Moscow region). The event turned out to be colorful, useful and rich in food for thought. Russian President Vladimir Putin, opening the forum, in particular, mentioned that our country will continue to actively develop and improve its strategic nuclear weapons. “The composition of nuclear forces this year will add to more 40 new intercontinental ballistic missiles, which will be able to overcome any, even the most technically advanced anti-missile defense systems,” said the head of the Russian state.

This statement, of course, caused a storm of emotions among Western politicians. “This belligerent rhetoric of Russia is unjustified, dangerous and plays a destabilizing role,” said NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg. “No one should hear such statements from the leader of a strong country and worry about the possible consequences,” said US Secretary of State John Kerry.

And “worrying” about our most likely adversary, really, is about what. In recent years, Russia has not only intensively restored its nuclear missile shield, but also regains those types of strategic defensive weapons that the United States, for all their technological and financial strength, have failed to create, no matter how hard they tried.

This is primarily about combat railway missile complexes (BZHRK), which were created in the Soviet Union by the Utkin brothers — the general designer of the Yuzhnoye Design Bureau, academician of the RAS Vladimir Fedorovich Utkin (Dnepropetrovsk, Ukraine) and the general designer of the design bureau of special engineering (St. Petersburg) Petersburg, Russia) Academician of RAS Alexei Fedorovich Utkin in the middle of the 80-s of the last century. Under the leadership of the elder brother, an intercontinental ballistic missile RT-23 and its railway version RT-XNUMHUTTH (23IX15, "Scalpel" according to NATO classification) were created, and under the direction of the younger brother, the "spaceport on wheels" capable of carrying three "Scalpel »And launch them from anywhere in the Soviet Union, with which there is a railway connection.


Mobile combat railway missile system (BZHRK) with intercontinental combat missiles RT-23 UTTH


This weapon turned out absolutely lethal. BZHRK "Good work" in appearance, almost did not differ from conventional freight trains. Therefore, it was an impossible task for the US military to calculate their location visually or using space observation among thousands of trains, daily scouring the vast country. And take steps to intercept - too. Because from the moment of receiving the order to perform the combat mission until the launch of the first rocket, the “Good One” took less than three minutes. Having received the order, the train stopped at any point on its route, the contact suspension was set aside by a special device, the roof of one of the refrigerated cars was opened and from there a ballistic missile carrying 10 nuclear warheads into the sky with a mortar launch practically appeared , from nowhere, 10 Soviet BZHRK, carrying 12 intercontinental ballistic missiles in response to a nuclear strike could literally wipe out any European country that is part of NATO, or several lko major US states.

Nothing like the American engineers and the military to create and could not, although they tried. Therefore, Western politicians entered into the business, and, at the insistence of the USA and Great Britain, from Soviet 1992 to 2003, all Soviet BZHRKs were removed from combat duty and destroyed. The appearance of two of them can now be seen only in the museum of railway equipment at the Warsaw station of St. Petersburg and in the AvtoVAZ Technical Museum.

However, over the past 20 years, the problem of effective "retaliation" of Russia in the event of aggression not only did not diminish, but only worsened. The new “global non-nuclear strike” strategy, which guides the current US authorities, suggests that not a nuclear strike, but a massive strike with high-precision missiles, will be dealt with on the territory of the likely enemy. Thousands of such missiles launched from American submarines, surface ships and ground installations should cover the most important industrial, energy centers of the enemy, the bases of its nuclear potential and, ultimately, leave it without teeth and will to resist. ...

And one of the guarantees that this scenario will not be implemented on the territory of Russia, and the revival in our country of the development and production of combat railway missile systems is becoming. Which by the mere fact of their existence can “cool the heat” of potential opponents of our country.

Work on their creation has already begun. Shortly before the Armiya-2015 international military-technical forum, Russian Deputy Minister of Defense Yury Borisov told reporters that the draft design of the new Russian BZHRK called Barguzin was ready. Before 2020, the structure of the Russian Armed Forces should be received before 5 BZHRK "Barguzin". Their development and construction is carried out at the expense of the funds provided for in the state armaments program up to 2020.

Information about the start of practical work on the reconstruction of BZHRK was also confirmed in the Radio Electronic Technologies Concern (KRET), which is developing means of electronic warfare for new rocket trains. “These developments are coming. Now our institutes are engaged in these developments, and these proposals will be handed over to the head executor who will be appointed to restore the BZHRK, ”adviser to the deputy head of the concern Vladimir Mikheev told TASS at the Army-2015 forum. “The train must be protected from reconnaissance and destruction, and the missiles themselves, which will be used by them, are also objects against which the enemy’s missile defense will act,” he stressed.

Information about what the Barguzins will represent is extremely limited. However, it is already quite clear that these will not be “modernized“ Well done ”, but completely new cars. First, because the technology for 30 years (the first "Good" was adopted for the 1987 year) went far ahead. Secondly, because all the work on the Barguzin is performed in Russia, without the involvement of the Ukrainian Yuzhnoye Design Bureau and the Yuzhmash plant.

The main weapon of the Barguzins will not be the 100-tonne "Scalpels", but the 50-tonne RS-24 "Yars" missiles. This is a completely Russian rocket - the development of the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering, the production of the Votkinsk plant. As you have already noticed, the Yars is twice as light as the PT-23UTTH, but it also contains a smaller number of separable combat units - 4 (according to open sources) instead of 10 (although it flies almost 1 thousand kilometers further than the "Scalpel"). It is known that each Barguzin will carry the YNS on the 6. But it is not yet very clear which way the developers of the new rocket train will go - or they will try to place in each refrigerated wagon that serves as a transport container for a rocket, two Yars, or will be limited to one for each rocket, but double compared to “Well done”, will increase the number of container-launchers in the composition of each train. At the same time, obviously, the main know-how of the creators of the “Well done” brothers Utkin’s will remain in the Barguzin - the system of launching the rocket: discharging the contact network over the train, mortar launching of the rocket, discharging it to the side using a powder accelerator and subsequent launch of the sustainer engine. This technology made it possible to divert the rocket propulsion engine from the launch complex and thereby ensure the stability of the rocket train, the safety of people and engineering structures, including railroad ones. And it was the Americans who could not put it into practice when developing their BZHRK, which at the beginning of the 90-s of the last century was tested at the US railway test site and the Western missile test site (Vandenberg Air Force Base, California).

At the same time, the Barguzin in general, neither cars, nor diesel locomotives, nor electromagnetic radiation, will be separated from the total mass of freight trains, thousands of which are now scurrying daily on Russian railways. Because the railway technology during this time, too, have gone far ahead. For example, the “Well done” was carrying three DM62 diesel locomotives (a special modification of the М62 serial diesel locomotive) with an aggregate power of 6 thousand lh.s. And the power of only one of the current mainline freight two-section diesel locomotive 2ТЭ25А "Vityaz", which is serially produced by Transmashholding, is 6 800 hp Full autonomy of the train is assumed to be the same as the “Well done” - 30 days. The course range is up to 1000 thousand kilometers per day. This, according to the developers, is enough to ensure the complete secrecy of the Barguzin and its ability to deliver an unexpected retaliation to the enemy at any time.
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107 comments
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  1. -53
    27 June 2015 06: 35
    If he ("Barguzin") really does not differ from civilians, it will not be much! It remains only to solve the problem with the sedimentation tanks. But this is not a solvable problem. They will find out anyway.
    1. +26
      27 June 2015 11: 33
      But what's the problem? On each railway node (this is every 100-200 km of hauls) there are sedimentation tanks in which ordinary roars stand for months ...
      Example, let's start from the east of the country:
      Nakhodka - Partizansk - Smolyaninovo - Artem - Ocean - Corner - Vladivostok
      it’s 180km ... I went by train for six years almost every week, it’s just clogged all the way, in the west of the country more often, I won’t continue ...
    2. +9
      27 June 2015 15: 27
      Sump bases can be created for training and distraction. And when pin_ dos start a war, it will be possible to groan right out of the way. Modern geolocation allows you to shoot from anywhere in the world, and not from certain attached ones, as it was in the previous system.
      1. 0
        28 June 2015 09: 25
        And one more thing: in the mines, the yars will probably be replaced with heavier missiles. Poplars and yars in difficult years have helped to maintain nuclear potential. But poplars have monoblock warheads, yars are better, but the casting weight is small. Yars seems to be a successful missile and its use in the bzhrk will allow them to maintain their production and maintain the balance of the system.
    3. +3
      27 June 2015 21: 58
      Unless someone calls on the Named (or numbered) iPhone and does not tell. For a barrel of jam. Well, you understand me. By the way, do you have this?
    4. +3
      28 June 2015 19: 52
      the SSBN submarine also has bases where it is easy to detect them; strategic YES also has a weak place for base airfields; Yars also has base points. It’s not that there are sedimentation tanks - you can’t do without them, because you need to carry out maintenance to replenish provisions, etc., etc. as well as the submarine is constantly on the move, albeit at low noise, but it goes on being inspected it goes on.
      The guarantee of safety of modern nuclear deterrents in modern realities is precisely constant movement - that is, the Yars roam the forests of the nuclear submarines, surf the oceans and YES are in the air and the trains rush along the railway - in the event of an aggravation of the military situation, all nuclear weapons delivery vehicles go to combat duty with maximum autonomy which repeatedly provides the possibility of a retaliatory nuclear weapons, that’s all.
      For example, in peacetime, 80% of mobile nuclear weapons carriers stand on bases and in tanks and take turns on duty, and in the event of a possible conflict, the percentage grows in tanks and falls to 20%. As if nothing new, everything has already been invented a long time ago.
  2. +4
    27 June 2015 06: 50
    And he will not destroy the railway tracks.
    1. +31
      27 June 2015 11: 33
      Passing RAU Rostov people who are not knowledgeable.
      BZHRK Well done because of the excessively high mass of the launch platform with the RT-23 UTTH missile, it destroyed railway lines. The routes along the BZHRK passage were strengthened, but the resource of the railway tracks was still small.
      The new BZHRK "Barguzin" is safe for railways. Due to the use of the twice lighter YARS rocket, the weight of the car with the launcher and the YARS rocket will not exceed the weight permissible for the railway track, that is, it will not destroy the railway tracks, as it was with the BZHRK Molodets.
      1. 0
        27 June 2015 19: 37
        Quote: RAU Rostov
        RAU Rostov Today, 06:50
        And he will not destroy the railway tracks.


        Minus him for the fact that he did not read the article to the place where it is said about radical weight loss ...
        Yes, and you have problems with logic, how will it destroy the canvas if
        Quote: ARS56
        ARS56 Today, 11:33 ↑
        The new BZHRK "Barguzin" is safe for railways. Due to the use of the twice lighter YARS rocket, the weight of the car with the launcher and the YARS rocket will not exceed the weight permissible for the railway track, that is, it will not destroy the railway tracks, as it was with the BZHRK Molodets.

        ??
        He says it will, and you say that in vain we minus - it will not ...
      2. 0
        27 June 2015 21: 15
        Quote: ARS56
        Passing RAU Rostov people who are not knowledgeable.

        but it’s interesting, what is the share of diesel locomotives in the railway transport fleet? And will they not be identified by the thermal signature?
        1. 0
          28 June 2015 00: 30
          Quote: Pilat2009
          but I wonder what is the proportion of diesel locomotives in the railway transport fleet?

          A lot of them.
      3. Registrar
        0
        28 June 2015 17: 54
        I think we still don’t know much, due to secrecy. Why we could be proud of the success of our military-industrial complex, and amer / pen-sis would be written in cots for a very long time.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. -3
      27 June 2015 11: 34
      Quote: RAU Rostov
      And he will not destroy the railway tracks.


      Aw, and wow, these developers. A boy from rastov - Galava
    4. +6
      27 June 2015 13: 59
      After a day, or even every day, 120-ton tanks pass by. Do they destroy paths badly?
    5. +6
      27 June 2015 14: 48
      What is the difference, the railway will have to be restored after a nuclear winter, for those who survive.
      1. +4
        27 June 2015 16: 48
        Quote: Rodion
        railway tracks will have to be restored after a nuclear winter,
        so Barguzin is created so that the nuclear winter does not come. A rejection of the railway track is needed at 15% of the rail head output. (This is from memory, I could be wrong).
        1. +2
          27 June 2015 19: 59
          Can anyone (preferably a specialist) say how our secret developments get along with such treaties and Western inspections in our military units? Do we have secrets from the enemy or all secrets only from us?
          "On 05.02.2011/XNUMX/XNUMX, the START treaty was concluded. Under this treaty, Russia is ahead of time destroying certain types of weapons and, in addition, in a UNILATERAL order, makes the following concessions:
          With regard to the PGRK (mobile soil missile system), the PENTAGON receives notifications of the release of mobile missiles from production facilities; on the movement of missiles to the training ground; sending them to the arsenal and arriving at the ICBM base; regarding the conversion or liquidation of PGRK. PGRK formations and missile regiments are inspected to confirm the accuracy of the declared data on the number and types of deployed and non-deployed ICBM launchers located at the ICBM base; the actual number of warheads deployed on a specifically designated deployed mobile ICBM. Moreover, for reading POPs (their own identification marks), American inspectors are allowed into the holy of holies - the Krona construction with military missiles. The first shows of promising PGRC are held to demonstrate the distinguishing features and confirm the technical characteristics of each new type, variant or variety of ICBMs and launcher. As far as the Yars PGRK is concerned, this has already been done. Before the start of American inspections, pre-inspection procedures are introduced in the PGRK compound that disrupt the main operational and combat training activities.

          This is a far from complete list of unilateral and humiliating articles of the START Treaty with respect to the Topol, Topol-M, Yars and Rubezh PGRKs, the content of which, taking into account the deployment of the global missile defense system and its regional segments, does not correspond to the interests military security of the Russian Federation. In addition, an orbital constellation of spacecraft of the United States and its allies is functioning, which monitors all PGRK position areas in real time. "

          Original source http://nvo.ng.ru/gpolit/2015-03-20/1_snv.html
          1. +4
            28 June 2015 02: 08
            Gentlemen, it’s high time to understand the idea that the residency is not somewhere else, but in Moscow, that the whole concern for defenses is ostentatious for mere mortals. All politics comes down to surrendering the interests of the West in exchange for the status quo for the existing ruling elite. In a real situation, none of this elite will dare to “press a button”, dare not. But the arms race and budget cuts are welcome. Such an essence of the Russian elite has been very clearly manifested over the past 1,5 years: complete political myopia in foreign policy, lack of will in geopolitics, mediocrity in the economy (both inside and outside). Failure in Ukraine, the surrender of Russian interests, for the sake of its cosmopolitanism in New Russia, Donbass. So much has already been said about this, so much blood has been shed by the innocent ...
            Lies and hypocrisy. In everything, everywhere, always.
            1. +1
              28 June 2015 02: 22
              Quote: cap-blood
              the residency is not located anywhere, but in Moscow, that all concern for defensive capabilities is ostentatious for mere mortals. All politics comes down to surrendering the interests of the West in exchange for the status quo for the existing ruling elite.

              10 has already been so old for this Maya (maybe I don’t remember it anymore, but to search for the source is lazy), and then it may still have been relevant. 20 years ago - it was definitely relevant Yes

              Do you think nothing has changed since then?

              Quote: cap-blood
              In a real situation, none of this elite will dare to “press a button”, dare not.

              Do you have any information? (gyyy laughing)? Or it seems to youwhat exactly is it?

              Quote: cap-blood
              political myopia in foreign policy, lack of will in geopolitics, mediocrity in the economy (both inside and outside). Failure in Ukraine, surrender of Russian interests, for the sake of its cosmopolitanism in New Russia, Donbass.

              Sunset on a wonderful holivar ..

              I will say this: this is only one of the points of view. Like many others, she also has a right to exist.

              PS: Here, I found:

              Quote: cap-blood 19 April 2014 15: 05
              .. for capricious moods no particular occasions are visible. Is it not obvious that the southeast was leaked, that Putin does not want further confrontation with the West, if only because his family members are located in this West, and even Russia itself has problems - you won’t get it ..

              My dear ... nothing has changed since then? wink
              1. +3
                28 June 2015 03: 15
                When I wrote this, I didn’t have any source, I just spoke out about what I see with my own eyes, in fact. See for yourself the loss of Russian interests in the world, the actions and statements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Gazprom, the agreement with China, but just visit Ukraine, Odessa, the Donbass, and Transnistria. I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth and will be happy if I find out that I am wrong. He simply spoke about what he felt on himself.
                For a year now, as I hadn’t accessed the site, apparently I returned in vain.
                Health and good luck to all readers and forum users!
                1. 0
                  28 June 2015 03: 53
                  Quote: cap-blood
                  See for yourself the loss of Russia's interests in the world, the actions and statements of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Gazprom, the agreement with China

                  The rest of my life will not be enough for me to "see" all this .. if possible - more specifically:

                  - what is the "loss of the Russian Federation's interests in the world"?
                  - what is wrong with the "actions and statements of the Foreign Ministry, Gazprom"?
                  - what kind of "agreement with China" and how do they upset you?

                  Quote: cap-blood
                  I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth

                  I also

                  Quote: cap-blood
                  He simply spoke about what he felt on himself.

                  Um ..

                  - residency (enemy) is in Moscow
                  - all care about the defense of the Russian Federation ostentatious
                  - the whole policy of the Russian Federation is reduced to the surrender of interests to the West in exchange for the status quo for the existing ruling elite of the Russian Federation
                  - arms race and cut the budget of the Russian Federation
                  - complete political myopia in the foreign policy of the Russian Federation
                  - lack of will in the geopolitics of the Russian Federation
                  - mediocrity in the economy (both inside and outside)
                  ...

                  You can clarify - what of all this, specifically from this, did you feel on yourself? And how did you feel it, being in the Kherson region?

                  Quote: cap-blood
                  apparently returned in vain

                  That only you decide .. hi
    6. 0
      27 June 2015 23: 04
      I apologize for the minus, read it, but misunderstood. I read it - but late. Sorry again!
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. +6
    27 June 2015 07: 27
    either they will try to put two Yars in each refrigerator car that serves as a transport container for the rocket, or they will limit themselves to one for each rocket,
    If they don’t want to be different, then they’ll limit themselves to one, otherwise they’ll have to sculpt reinforced carts again request
    1. +10
      27 June 2015 10: 57
      Quote: perepilka
      If they don’t want to be different, then they’ll limit themselves to one, otherwise they’ll have to sculpt reinforced carts again



      Which, exactly, was the main unmasking sign of the Well done ...

      But, given the weight of the new rocket, most likely, this will not have to be done, and thank God ...
  5. +8
    27 June 2015 07: 44
    “No one should hear such statements from the leader of a strong country and worry about the possible consequences,” said US Secretary of State John Kerry on this subject.
  6. bort74
    -9
    27 June 2015 07: 50
    There is an opinion, and not only mine, that such products were not removed from duty.
    1. +7
      27 June 2015 08: 26
      Quote: bort74
      There is an opinion, and not only mine, that such products were not removed from duty.

      They took off. One of the places where the BZHRK was based was the base in the Kostroma region. Vasilek station, if memory serves me right. I found photos of these places on the networks, complete devastation. It's a pity.
      1. +6
        27 June 2015 10: 58
        Quote: Kos_kalinki9
        They took off. One of the places where the BZHRK was based was the base in the Kostroma region.



        Her, dear, and destroyed in the first place ... I mean the Kostroma division and the RPM ...
        1. +1
          27 June 2015 15: 05
          Quote: veksha50
          Quote: Kos_kalinki9
          They took off. One of the places where the BZHRK was based was the base in the Kostroma region.



          Her, dear, and destroyed in the first place ... I mean the Kostroma division and the RPM ...

          No. Thirty seems to have lasted longer than the base in Siberia. True BZHRK was there on the joke. although maybe I'm wrong.
          1. 0
            17 September 2015 11: 12
            In fact, all the BZHRKs stood idle. In any case - in Kostroma - for sure. I served there since 1996. And they put it on the joke either from the 91st or from the 93rd, after the buchi. Only "command trains" traveled along the routes, without starting ones.
        2. +1
          27 June 2015 17: 59
          I served there in 1980, there was an exemplary division awarded the Order of Suvorov, and through the fence part of the airborne forces.
    2. +1
      27 June 2015 13: 44
      Unfortunately, it is not. I had two uncles who served on such a one near Krasnoyarsk - they all started to cut.
  7. +6
    27 June 2015 07: 56
    I read and wonder how many terribly smart commentators divorced just to be terrifying, and this is not so for them, I understand that if they are still pro-Western sheep, then many people cannot insert a plug into the outlet, but they undertake to teach everyone and everything. In a word, CANCER. soldier
    1. +1
      27 June 2015 10: 54
      "many cannot even insert a plug into the socket." They can, as much as they can, only the outlet is different.
    2. +2
      27 June 2015 15: 56
      Quote: cerbuk6155
      In a word, CANCER.

      Do you happen to play "tanks"? Jargon, you know, is familiar ... And it is always useful to listen to clever things ... even if they turn out to be not so smart.
      1. +3
        27 June 2015 16: 57
        Quote: Starley from the South
        And listening to smart things is always useful ... even if they turn out to be not so smart.

        why then listen to them if they are essentially * not so smart *? No.
  8. +13
    27 June 2015 08: 00
    I’ll criticize you as a railwayman. Tracking the train now is easier than before. It’s enough to hack into the Russian Railways data transmission system and gain access to the Ural GID system. The second moment. There are practically no refrigerators left on the network. For five years now we’ve been carrying some barrels and 10 percent of gondola cars with wood and metal and charcoal. Composition looks like a white crow.
    1. +12
      27 June 2015 08: 12
      It’s okay to disguise as 40-pound containers, passenger mail will return 8-axle barrels of mass and electronic databases can be corrected and run the place of ten paravoziks forty or fifty let them catch and at such a speed of movement and maneuvering God help them. I believe that there are no equal for paravoziks.
      1. -6
        27 June 2015 08: 56
        Can you imagine the length of the railway infrastructure? You can stick a GPS sensor to the train sitting from any forest planting
        1. +2
          27 June 2015 09: 42
          So what? I’ve worked on the road for 15 years. It can take it, but who can he get it? ZhPS sensor, sign and hang a bulb so that it can be seen? It’s easier to detect a boat than a bzhrka.
          1. +1
            27 June 2015 10: 52
            Have you heard of the Palma system?
            1. +2
              27 June 2015 16: 07
              It’s written on the fence, and there is firewood, you can write any numbers at one time, cunning cars were bombed and numbers were rewritten and searched for cars linear across the country.
          2. +3
            27 June 2015 17: 12
            Quote: apro
            A boat is easier to spot than a bzhrka.

            Oleg, you, please, decide for yourself, at least: * railwayman * you or A SUBMARINE?
            Or maybe you're an astronaut from RKV? wink
            Then tell the forum users how things are with the space echelon of missile defense, and how the location of any target on the Earth’s surface is determined from space. belay
            Good Luck!
            1. +1
              27 June 2015 17: 35
              I’m two-handed for bzhrka! Firstly, it’s a little cheaper than Plbr, secondly, mobile soil poplars in the third, more secretive than mines, an ideal weapon of retaliation. [Quote = KAA boa constrictor] [quote = apro]
              Or maybe you're an astronaut from RKV? wink
              Then tell the forum users how things are with the space echelon of missile defense, and how the location of any target on the Earth’s surface is determined from space. belay
              Good luck! [/ Quote]
              Wrong questions cannot be answered correctly.
        2. +8
          27 June 2015 11: 18
          Quote: bulat
          Can you imagine the length of the railway infrastructure? You can stick a GPS sensor to the train sitting from any forest planting



          What's next???

          All the charm and dignity of the BZHRK is that it can constantly be on the move, and not stand on separate half-stations-dead ends ... And start (stop, scatter the contact network and start) for him the standard is 3 minutes ... Flight tasks for clearly defined purposes, missiles were also introduced into the control system on the basis of RPM, and when the train goes along the route, AGO (astronomical and geodetic support - reference) is carried out through the appropriate equipment, which immediately makes the necessary corrections to the flight mission ...

          Well and further ... The JPS sensor hangs on it ... Even the signals that it transmits to the satellite, let them be sent to some US Air Force base ... They ALSO have to constantly make changes to the flight missions in their missiles ...

          And while they have no such technique, absolutely absent !!! And whether there will be - another question ... THIS IS AT them obsolete SNF, NOT AT US !!!
          1. +1
            27 June 2015 15: 11
            I can give you 100500 ways to interrupt the movement of trains. I will not bring them here. Attract .....
            1. +2
              27 June 2015 16: 10
              And what? An attack on a delivery vehicle is a war, are you sure that you can stop all paravoziki with a XNUMX% guarantee?
          2. 0
            27 June 2015 15: 41
            Quote: veksha50
            and when the train goes along the route, AGO (astronomical and geodesic support - reference) is conducted through the appropriate equipment, which immediately makes the necessary corrections to the flight task ...

            Most commentators are not interested, but to me - yes.
            Tell me, didn’t there be a RPPZ regime at the BZHRK and all the geodetic data did indeed send directly to the rocket launchers, more precisely, did the RPPZ go on constantly?
            Well, if there was a device on the farm called AGK - what was the point in the above process, if all the same 20 minutes in the parking lot the calculation of the basic direction is carried out ??
            1. 0
              27 June 2015 16: 59
              Quote: Moore
              Tell me, didn’t there be a RPPZ regime at the BZHRK and all the geodetic data did indeed send directly to the rocket launchers, more precisely, did the RPPZ go on constantly?


              Thanks to this, the BZHRK, having received the launch command on the fly, stopped and, after three minutes, made the launch ... Why did the Americans fear it and first of all insisted on its destruction, and not on the destruction of stationary and mobile Topol ...
              1. 0
                17 September 2015 11: 25
                I'll add my "five cents". A bit wrong. As far as I remember, launching "from any point on the route" is, as it were, softer, a bit fantastic. On the route, positions were prepared, upon entering which the launcher was supposed to catch the sensor. I found a detour of these positions and a check of sensors. If I didn't catch it, something could be entered there (sensor number, if it's broken), but only for a specific position. The BZHRK could not just stop anywhere on the route and launch it "in three minutes". For this, all prelaunch systems had to be deployed. Those. for operational launch, the BZHRK had to be in a prepared (including from a geodetic point of view) position and at the same time "deployed". The collapsed state, even in position, meant the need for an accelerated, but still deployment. And the deployment took at least 20-30 minutes. But for this, there was such a concept as increased levels of combat readiness. wink
          3. +1
            27 June 2015 15: 49
            Why can't GPS be found? After all, "bugs" are found in rooms with devices. And the second way is to suppress the work of GPS by electronic methods. If US destroyers are taken out of service, why is it not applicable to GPS?
        3. +4
          27 June 2015 11: 43
          A GPS sensor is a sensible idea, of course, but you seem to have not read the entire article, KRET "The train must be protected from reconnaissance and defeat." This sensor and any other sensor simply won't work.
          1. -1
            27 June 2015 15: 20
            You cannot imagine the extent and vulnerability of Russian Railways infrastructure.
            1. 0
              28 June 2015 00: 41
              Quote: bulat
              You cannot imagine the extent and vulnerability of Russian Railways infrastructure.

              The railway is such a strong squat (to put it mildly) design that is not easy to disable.
    2. +4
      27 June 2015 09: 18
      I agree with the comment, but not only you think so, the military thinks too. Simply put, I assume that pacifiers will ply as a distracting maneuver.
    3. +1
      27 June 2015 11: 03
      Quote: bulat
      The command line looks like a white crow.


      But this is already negative, but interesting and necessary information ... After all, our customers and developers can think in the old categories, that is, refrigerators - it’s full on Russian Railways ...

      Then, most likely, it is necessary now, during the development process, to change the camouflage ... Either the goods, or the containers ... Just do not need to shout about Klaba - the TTX is completely different ... But why not the RS-24 to make under these containers ???
      1. +3
        27 June 2015 11: 15
        Quote: veksha50
        Just do not need to shout about Klaba - there TTX is completely different ...

        Speaking of CLUB-K, the idea is sound. I mean that Europe doesn’t relax either. Let's create a light version of Barguzin with this complex, with target designation, for example, the Brussels region.
      2. 0
        27 June 2015 15: 42
        I believe the best camouflage is a mailer. But he does not ride with three locomotives ...
        1. +2
          27 June 2015 21: 54
          Quote: Moore
          But he does not ride with three locomotives ...

          read the article carefully, three young locomotives drove. now one is more powerful than those three
      3. +2
        27 June 2015 17: 50
        Quote: veksha50
        After all, our customers and developers can think in old categories,
        Well, too much! Research institutes and military-technical commissions on the side, or what?
        And here, reading the musings of * experts *, it is clear that they were stuck in the last century ... There are inertial-free gyroscopic systems on the carrier and an astro correction system on the product. Even the antediluvian NKs of the Tobol type on our first strategists made it possible to compensate for the error in the place of up to 10 km and in the direction of up to 3,0 * (I am silent about Andromeda and Medveditsa). And the data storage time has increased up to 5 days. And this is under water, where neither RNS nor stars are visible. What you can suffer above, kill - I do not understand!
        1. +4
          27 June 2015 20: 14
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          Well, too much! Research institutes and military-technical commissions on the side, or what?


          I left the Kostroma division of the BZHRK and went to the Central Research Institute-4, which, in fact, this BZHRK accompanied, among other tasks ... And, I will tell you, the cabinet worker at the research institute and the person working directly on technology - for some reason there was little connection between them ...

          When the first complex arrived in Plesetsk, on Medvezhya Street, and went on pilot combat duty, I had to report to Mosca, the General Staff of the Strategic Missile Forces, about some miscalculations in the organization of the combat command system ... They did not believe me, yelled, then the commission arrived ( not immediately, but when the complex had already arrived from Plesetsk to Kostroma for PPD), as a result, the senior commissioner, Colonel, was in a pre-infarction state ... Here you have the support of the research institute ...

          Also, in TsNII-4 there was and is a medical department dealing with ergonomics ... So, no matter how they claim that the living conditions on the BZHRK are two orders of magnitude lower than on a diesel submarine, there were no positive results from this .. .

          And you - research institutes are for this purpose ... There is no feedback - consider, a third of the mess depends on just this, if not more, when mastering new technology ...
    4. -3
      27 June 2015 16: 02
      Quote: bulat
      The command line looks like a white crow.

      So after all, you can disguise as a passenger. But you never know the options, here is a field for imagination. And at the moment "H" the navigation systems of the probable "partners" are usually disabled, there are opportunities
      1. +1
        27 June 2015 17: 02
        Quote: Starley from the South
        So you can also disguise as a passenger.



        Moore upstairs said this, about the main unmasking feature - neither mailboxes, nor passenger ones, and none in general travel "with three locomotives", and you can't get away from them - you need the ability to "pull" launchers ... This is not necessary , but the possibility of "pulling away" is provided ...
  9. +11
    27 June 2015 08: 10
    The author did not mention one feature of the Barguzin. An indispensable condition for the design of this BZHRK was its complete identity and indistinguishability from a simple train, in contrast to the Molodets, which could be visually distinguished from a simple car by the presence of a reinforced bottom. as stated now, it will not be and it will be indistinguishable from a simple carriage.
    As for the Yars missiles themselves, it is possible that the first Barguzins will be equipped with them. But there is an opinion that when the Sarmat ICBM is adopted, which will just weigh 100 tons (as stated), the BZHRK will also be equipped with this missile. But wait One thing is certain: we need these complexes as soon as possible.
    1. +2
      27 June 2015 08: 43
      Under the Scalpel, P 75 was laid. For those who are not in the know, this is the mark of the rail (the number of kilograms per meter) Throughout the network, basically P 65 lies.
      1. +5
        27 June 2015 09: 44
        Transib and bam mostly p90
        1. 0
          27 June 2015 10: 49
          author -> author -> author kill yourself
      2. 0
        27 June 2015 13: 04
        Quote: bulat
        Under the Scalpel, P 75 was laid. For those who are not in the know, this is the mark of the rail (the number of kilograms per meter) Throughout the network, basically P 65 lies.

        So, maybe that's why they put 50 ton "Yars" instead of 100 ton "Scalpels".
        1. 0
          27 June 2015 14: 32
          That is why. Plus, they want to get by with 4-axle cars, remove the demaxing modifications of these cars, reduce the load on locomotives (since they still need a huge reserve for traction) and get at least some unification with the land Yars. Although if you ask me - the 75-ton "Yars-M" would be better for the BZHRK, it is still not a soil complex and the weight restrictions are lower
    2. +3
      27 June 2015 10: 29
      Definitely Sarmat will not be put on the BZHRK. Firstly, the mass of 100 tons is speculation - only PN is known in the region of 10 tons, and the rocket class is heavy, i.e. mass more 105 tons. It can be 150, 200, or even more. Secondly, the work on the BZHRK is carried out by the MIT, which is responsible only for solid-propellant missiles. Therefore, the Barguzin rocket is made on the basis of the RS-24 (and it is not at all necessary that it will become its copy in terms of dimensions, mass and throw weight)
    3. +3
      27 June 2015 11: 08
      Quote: NEXUS
      that upon the adoption of the Sarmatian ICBM, which will be exactly 100 tons (as stated), the BZHRK will also be equipped with this missile.



      Hey hey hey ... We slow down slowly ... It's me - like a rocket launcher and a former BZhRkshnik I say ...

      Never heavy none of the designers and developers would even think of placing a rocket on a mobile complex ... I repeat: Any mobile complex ... And the BZHRK is one of the mobile ...

      All its "charm" is in the range of both the rocket itself and the power-weight of the warhead ... And this implies a stationary specialized launch ...

      And here we have the problem of protecting its positional area, and not only from air and from space ...
      1. +1
        28 June 2015 14: 51
        Quote: veksha50
        Hey hey hey ... We slow down slowly ... It's me - like a rocket launcher and a former BZhRkshnik I say ...

        And I do not claim that Sarmat will be put on the railway platform, but only suggested that with the declared mass of 100 tons, this option has a place to be. I repeat, I DO NOT APPROVE, but only reflect on this topic.
  10. +12
    27 June 2015 08: 43
    The complex is more than serious. The ground strategic missile forces receive a system similar in secrecy to the marine nuclear component, and in invulnerability perhaps even superior to it. Concerns about the discovery and destruction of paths: if they find far from everything, stop the launch? It is unlikely, but along the paths it is not necessary to consider developers as suckers.
    In general, you will not envy the adversary, if only we were worthy of the Ancestors and again not about .... whether the Motherland is like in 91.
  11. -2
    27 June 2015 09: 37
    They would also have made an air launch system for ICBMs from transporters, no different from civilian aircraft. Thousands of passenger and transport planes fly around the world, and if one of them launches ICBMs at any time, the entire laudable missile defense system is covered with a copper and very polished basin smile
  12. +1
    27 June 2015 09: 57
    As I understand it, the Barguzin complex is our answer to missile defense and a club over the euro to collective farmers who dare to deploy missile defense elements on their territory
  13. 0
    27 June 2015 10: 44
    Well, right.
    Wise guys, they will make it so that no one will guess that it goes on rails.
  14. +1
    27 June 2015 10: 56
    "For example, Molodets was hauled by three DM62 diesel locomotives (a special modification of the serial M62 diesel locomotive) with a total capacity of 6 thousand hp. And the capacity of only one current mainline freight two-section diesel locomotive 2TE25A" Vityaz ", which is serially produced by Transmashholding, is 6 hp. from."...

    All the same, the number of diesel locomotives will be equal to the number of autonomous launchers, because the combat use of the BZHRK also provides for its "pulling away" in parts in the area of ​​combat duty in order to reduce its vulnerability ...
  15. -8
    27 June 2015 11: 37
    At the same time, obviously, in Barguzin the main know-how of the creators of Molodets, the Utkin brothers, will remain - the missile launch system: withdrawal of the contact network over the train, ------------- a strange statement, missile launch is full-scale war, why take the contact network aside, just cut it, and then restore it after launch.
    1. +4
      27 June 2015 11: 54
      I put you a minus for the contact network, in fact, trains still run
      1. 0
        27 June 2015 12: 09
        During the 3rd World War, you’re an optimist, and then after starting up restore the network for 2-3 hours to personnel, although why save the network if the answer flies. In fact, it is easier and more inconspicuous to cut the wires than to set aside.
        1. 0
          28 June 2015 00: 54
          Quote: New Communist
          During the 3rd world

          World wars are a rare phenomenon, and various teachings and other experimental launches are a frequent phenomenon, will we cut each time?
          1. 0
            28 June 2015 09: 02
            And why do you need to conduct studies on the ways equipped with electric wires, not electrified, or not enough.
  16. -4
    27 June 2015 11: 39
    And another problem, in Russia saboteurs and homo Russophobicus hang beacons on barguzins
    1. +4
      27 June 2015 12: 38
      In Russia there are also anti-sabotage units, and at hour X they will work without errors ... believe me a word!
      1. -4
        27 June 2015 14: 14
        Yeah, on a trolley for a barguzin. No need for elusions, here you are lucky, but losses of barguzins up to 30% are acceptable.
        1. +3
          27 June 2015 17: 07
          Quote: New Communist
          Yeah, on a trolley for a barguzin. No need for elusions, here you are lucky, but losses of barguzins up to 30% are acceptable.



          For your information, in one of the supposedly mail cars (there are not only refrigerators, but three cars decorated as mail cars - a dining room-kitchen, a leisure car for personnel and a carriage not just with security, namely an anti-sabotage group armed with modern electronic means tracking, detection, etc.).

          And if you talk like that, both you and the tanks are burning, and missile planes go down, and submarines are drowning, and people somehow have the property of dying, dying ...

          Still, a terrible thing is life ... Yes ???
  17. +3
    27 June 2015 12: 37
    Yes, it doesn’t matter whether they block our BZHRK or not, whether they will be under the hood of a probable adversary or not! Only one thing is important ... the first and most important is SPRN, if it works clearly, it doesn’t matter where the enemy ballists fly, and for what purposes .. .we will have time to take off everything that can fly and overcome, and go to meet their missiles and .... the world of kranta! Secondly, no disguise will save, with the current high-tech detection complex, moreover, from all angles, the BZHRK will definitely like PGRK ... but they will only destroy these complexes after they have completed their combat mission of launching! The only advantage of PGRK and BZHRK in their mobility is that the areas of their combat duty and routing routes are constantly changing, but ... but their locations constants, and unfortunately the enemy knows very well! Therefore, only SPRN, and the accurate work of launch calculations will not allow adversaries to rejoice in victory!
    1. -1
      27 June 2015 14: 37
      .but their places of deployment are constant, and, unfortunately, the enemy knows them very well! ---- this is Kostroma, site -6
      1. 0
        27 June 2015 16: 22
        Quote: new communist
        .but their places of deployment are constant, and, unfortunately, the enemy knows them very well! ---- this is Kostroma, site -6

        Not 6 but 30. Here is her photo in the current state. So the opponent knows this place of deployment.
        1. +1
          27 June 2015 17: 12
          Quote: Kos_kalinki9
          Not 6 but 30. Here is her photo in the current state. So the opponent knows this place of deployment.



          This is the former RPM ... I don’t know what it is now ... most likely - it was plundered ... As when we switched from the mine UR100 to the BZHRK, why didn’t we drag it from the mine PU after dismantling ...

          Thank God I did not find all the horror - already in the 88th I was transferred to another part ...
        2. 0
          27 June 2015 18: 04
          I agree, the memory failed, we were not allowed to 30k.
    2. 0
      27 June 2015 17: 08
      Quote: igorka357
      Yes, it doesn’t matter whether they block our BZHRK or not



      I completely agree with the text of your comment ...
  18. +2
    27 June 2015 12: 53
    Range - up to 1000 thousand km per day.

    It turns out that up to a million km. Correct in the article.
    1. +1
      27 June 2015 14: 20
      Quote: anip
      It turns out that up to a million km. Correct in the article.

      This is often the case with journalists))

      +
  19. +2
    27 June 2015 13: 39
    So what, another Yars but on a railway platform? Yes, it is more mobile, but more invulnerable, but it carries weapons of the second stage (which may not have been used at all), I will not explain why.
    The strange has so much money that it is not so economical to invest it. This raises the second part of the eternal Russian question - what to do? And the answer is trivially simple - the creation of a universal launch complex on a railway platform (WATAGA system) capable of launching air defense missiles, coastal anti-ship systems, and carrying out combined arms support.
    (I REPRESENT a heavy and super-heavy railway platform on the basis of which defense, industrial and aircraft-bearing systems can be created - for the strange one located in 11 time zones, bordering most of the countries of the continent.)
    And to do this, divide the complex into two elements: the starting lineup and the arsenal lineup going along adjacent paths in the same direction, capable of starting in motion, a quick change of arsenal lineups (Russian missile machine gun). Also, to work out for combined arms support a missile capable of hitting l / s and lightly armored enemy vehicles on a strip of 1.5 X 10 km - an analogue of carpet bombing, only immeasurably cheaper (the SEED missile has no analogues in the world, in terms of its construction and survivability. )
    Something like this, while I'm not talking about logistics, modular components of the launch complex, security systems of the "WATAGA" complex, but the fact that this is not a simple launcher, but a system tied to radar complexes are strange in general, with powerful computing potential.
    I do not comment, I do not give answers.
  20. +1
    27 June 2015 13: 51
    Under them it is necessary to prepare the infrastructure. You won’t drag such a car for normal operation or repair. I’m studying on a wagon car, maybe I will ever see them))
  21. +1
    27 June 2015 15: 15
    Quote: apro
    Transib and bam mostly p90


    There are few contact networks. The main draft force is diesel locomotives, which means that the start time is significantly reduced.
    Z.Y. and there are enough tunnels for shelter there.
  22. +1
    27 June 2015 15: 16
    On another forum, 3 years ago, almost all possible sores were sorted out, the author takes part in the creation. All problems were solved and the MO supported a draft design. The author, for obvious reasons, works and doesn’t comment on anything sensible man. The name could be changed to Nemesis, which for I, rockets are very important, we need very accurate missiles with maneuvering warheads with increased nuclear power. So to speak, for particularly gentle use on sensitive targets. No need to hurry, the main quality and capabilities of the complex. Because its operation is orders of magnitude cheaper than SSBNs. And being in the tunnels will deliver a continuous headache.
    1. +1
      27 June 2015 19: 12
      What is good BZHRK? By the fact that it can advance closer to the coast during the threatened period, i.e. to the adversary, reducing delivery time, at the same time - choose a place away from the pelvis with Aegis, well, or at the same time complicating his service.
  23. 0
    27 June 2015 15: 17
    About special trains. The first department is on the alert.
  24. 0
    27 June 2015 15: 25
    Do not write core. I have the expression P-90 cognitive dissonance turns
  25. Advaita_
    0
    27 June 2015 15: 29
    How protected are the railways for moving the complex?
  26. 0
    27 June 2015 16: 00
    Talk less, work more! 20th year is too long! The USA may not give this time. And why did they increase the missile range by 1000 km? It may be more reasonable to leave the previous 10000 km, but add warheads? Still, 4 pcs - not enough, sort of.
  27. +1
    27 June 2015 18: 33
    If he ("Barguzin") really does not differ from civilians, it will not be much! It remains only to solve the problem with the sedimentation tanks. But this is not a solvable problem. They will find out anyway.
    you would have to go to the city on the Neva, namely St. Petersburg, and go to the railway museum and see for yourself everything and you won’t allow such mistakes. nor any sedimentation tanks of a bunker and other such trains do not need; they mix perfectly with the usual train.
  28. 0
    27 June 2015 18: 36
    Talk less, work more! 20th year is too long! The USA may not give this time. And why did they increase the missile range by 1000 km? It may be more reasonable to leave the previous 10000 km, but add warheads? Still, 4 pcs - not enough, sort of.
    the author did not mention the power of these missiles.
  29. +2
    27 June 2015 19: 52
    Quote: Strannik_GO
    And the answer is trivially simple - the creation of a universal launch complex on a railway platform ("WATAGA" system) capable of launching air defense missiles, coastal anti-ship systems, and providing combined arms support.

    I just wanted to write about it. You need to create a platform for a whole class of weapons. Given that the mass of missiles will be lower, the train can be disguised as a postal and luggage train. In order for the enemy not to receive a "picture" of the train, wagons and locomotives will need to be shuffled periodically. Instead of missiles, it will be possible to place electronic warfare equipment on the clone trains. There is more space here and the energy sources are much more powerful. Several such electronic warfare trains can easily arrange "fun" for a technological enemy. Or, for example, a pseudo-BZHRK with the ability to launch the X-101 and an automatic missile feed. This thing "Eurogolubyatnyu" could easily pinch.
    1. -2
      27 June 2015 20: 30
      It’s still not bad to attach a couple of wagons with a patient and a S-300, and 10 more train blenders to launch with inflatable missiles.
  30. +1
    27 June 2015 22: 07
    Quote: lidiy
    Under this treaty, Russia is ahead of schedule destroying certain types of weapons and, in addition, in a UNILATERAL manner, it also makes the following concessions: In relation to the PGRK (mobile soil missile system), notifications on the release of mobile missiles from production facilities are sent to the PENTAGON; on the movement of missiles to the training ground; sending them to the arsenal and arriving at the ICBM base; regarding the conversion or liquidation of PGRK. PGRK formations and missile regiments are inspected to confirm the accuracy of the declared data on the number and types of deployed and non-deployed ICBM launchers located at the ICBM base; the actual number of warheads deployed on a specifically designated deployed mobile ICBM. Moreover, for reading POPs (their own identification marks), American inspectors are allowed into the holy of holies - the Krona construction with military missiles. The first displays of promising PGRC are held to demonstrate the distinguishing features and confirm the technical characteristics of each new type, variant or variety of ICBMs and launcher. As far as the Yars PGRK is concerned, this has already been done. Before the start of American inspections, pre-inspection procedures are introduced in the PGRK compound that disrupt the main operational and combat training activities.

    Have you read the contract? Or on the principle of "heard the ringing"? Yes, there are inspections. So what? We carry out exactly the same inspections on enemy territory
  31. +1
    27 June 2015 23: 30
    Quote: ARS56
    BZHRK Well done because of the excessively high mass of the launch platform with the RT-23 UTTH missile, it destroyed railway lines. The routes along the BZHRK passage were strengthened, but the resource of the railway tracks was still small.

    The paths really intensified, but the BZHRK did not destroy the paths at launch.
  32. +1
    27 June 2015 23: 36
    http://nvo.ng.ru/gpolit/2015-03-20/1_snv.html

    Sorry, But Vildanov in places carries frank delirium.

    Quote: lidiy
    Can anyone (preferably a specialist) say how our secret developments coexist with such agreements and Western inspections in our military units?

    Get along well

    Quote: lidiy
    "On 05.02.2011 the START treaty was concluded. Under this treaty, Russia is ahead of time destroying certain types of weapons and, in addition, in a UNILATERAL order

    What does it mean unilaterally? Do Americans not cut back? It would not hurt Vildanom not only to sprinkle articles in NG, but also to provide data that Russia and the United States exchange under this agreement. Then I would know that there is no one-sided reduction. They cut back. And what is ahead of schedule - so what can you do if most of our complexes come close to the service life limits ...

    Quote: lidiy
    ... in a UNILATERAL manner, it also makes such concessions: With regard to the PGRK (mobile soil missile system) notifications on the release of mobile missiles from production facilities are sent to the PENTAGON; on the movement of missiles to the training ground; sending them to the arsenal and arriving at the ICBM base; regarding the conversion or liquidation of PGRK.

    Vildan probably because of age is not aware that all these parameters belonged to the START-2 treaty, which ceased to exist. All of these notifications and more. Certain conditions are met (they are stipulated), but not to the extent that he writes

    Quote: lidiy
    PGRK formations and missile regiments are inspected to confirm the accuracy of the declared data on the number and types of deployed and non-deployed ICBM launchers located at the ICBM base; the actual number of warheads deployed on a specifically designated deployed mobile ICBM. Moreover, for reading POPs (their own identification marks), American inspectors are allowed into the holy of holies - the Krona construction with military missiles. The first shows of promising PGRC are held to demonstrate the distinguishing features and confirm the technical characteristics of each new type, variant or variety of ICBMs and launcher.

    So what? We can carry out exactly the same checks as part of inspections. And by the number of BG including
  33. +1
    27 June 2015 23: 37
    Quote: lidiy
    As far as the Yars PGRK is concerned, this has already been done. Before the start of American inspections, pre-inspection procedures are introduced in the PGRK compound that disrupt the main operational and combat training activities. This is not a complete list. one-sided and derogatory articles of the START treaty regarding the Topol, Topol-M, Yars, and Rubezh PGRK, the contents of which, taking into account the deployment of the global missile defense system and its regional segments, are not in the interests of the military security of the Russian Federation.

    And not only with regard to Yars. And "Rubezh", And in the future and "Barguzin" and "Sarmat". What a damn they are unilateral derogatory procedure? Does the general already take down the roof from old age? These procedures are specified in the contract. And for both sides. We also test their missiles in RPM in the same way.
    And another scarecrow - GLOBAL PRO

    Quote: lidiy
    In addition, there is an orbital grouping of spacecraft of the United States and its allies, which monitors all PGRK position areas in real time. "

    All-purpose and exclusive real-time monitoring. True, the general forgot to say that this would require from 1,5 to 2 hundred reconnaissance satellites. And there are now ... The United States has satellites that, under certain conditions, are capable of detecting PGRK in total FIVE. Which pass over the points of deployment as much TWO TIMES A DAY. Pretty real time scale. In general, the issues of fixing PGRK from satellites is a separate issue.
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. +1
    27 June 2015 23: 50
    Quote: veksha50
    For your information, in one of the supposedly mail cars (there are not only refrigerators, but three cars are designed for mail cars - a dining room-kitchen, a leisure car for personnel and a car not just with security, namely an anti-sabotage group

    Exactly under the postal? 278 and 279th were like passenger. In the latter, there was a DSOO compartment
  36. +1
    28 June 2015 01: 57
    Quote: Author
    At the same time, Barguzin in general - neither by wagons, nor diesel locomotives, nor electromagnetic radiation, will stand out from the total mass of freight trains, thousands of which are now daily scurrying along Russian railways.

    1. What nonsense. I do not know about "Barguzin", but even W80 and W84 (poop) are "visible" for 100-200m
    2. This is a letter train, that’s it.
    3. To Yourself Contradictions
    Quote: Author
    The main weapon of the Barguzins will be not the 100-ton Scalpels, but the 50-ton RS-24 Yars rockets. This is a completely Russian missile - the development of the Moscow Institute of Heat Engineering, the production of the Votkinsk plant

    railway car weight




    ICBM "Yars" Length (without warhead) about 17 m
    49-50 tons + 15 tons lifting mechanisms, total 65 tons
    how is it "no different"?
    Quote: Author
    Because railway technology during this time also went far ahead.

    Come on?
    and detail?
    "Sapsan", so this is Siemens ICE-2, but in terms of tare weight, load, no one "left" anywhere
    Quote: Author
    For example, “Molodets” was dragged by three diesel locomotives DM62 (a special modification of the serial diesel locomotive M62) with a total capacity of 6 thousand hp And the capacity of only one current main cargo two-section diesel locomotive 2ТЭ25А Vityaz, which is serially produced by Transmashholding, is 6 800 hp

    mb the point is that "Molodets" weighs 100 tons, and Yars -50 tons?
    800 l / s win? at 50% weight reduction?
    Diesel locomotive 3TE116U of PJSC "Luganskteplovoz". Diesel locomotive 3TE116U is the most powerful operating diesel locomotive in the territory of the former USSR. More than 10 000 horsepower, 56 meters.

    1. +1
      28 June 2015 07: 02
      Incorrect question. 26 tons is the tare weight
      1. 0
        28 June 2015 23: 36
        Quote: bulat
        Incorrect question. 26 tons is the tare weight

        correct answer: yes this is the tare weight, FOR a freight car
        For the PASSENGER, under which the Good "" or "Barguzin" is disguised, it will be, it will make 2 \ 30 tons too (minus the entrails: seats, toilet, ventilation, air conditioner, etc.)
        30 + 50 + 15 (
        Quote: bulat
        15 t lifting mechanisms
        ) =?
        Is this a typical train / wagon?
  37. -1
    28 June 2015 03: 24
    Quote: bulat
    I’ll criticize you as a railwayman. Tracking the train now is easier than before. It’s enough to hack into the Russian Railways data transmission system and gain access to the Ural GID system. The second moment. There are practically no refrigerators left on the network. For five years now we’ve been carrying some barrels and 10 percent of gondola cars with wood and metal and charcoal. Composition looks like a white crow.


    That's it. Than to defraud these BZHRK, recreating their production and infrastructure, it would be easier to concentrate on increasing the production of mobile Topol-M, Yars.
  38. +2
    28 June 2015 11: 23
    “Molodets” was dragged by three diesel locomotives DM62 (a special modification of the serial diesel locomotive M62) with a total capacity of 6 thousand hp And the capacity of only one current main cargo two-section diesel locomotive 2TE25A Vityaz, which is serially produced by Transmashholding, is 6 hp.

    Yes, even with a capacity of 15000 hp. issued. Three diesel locomotives on 15P961 were caused not by a single "low power" of each, but by the fact that each locomotive had to "carry" its own launch module (division, in more understandable language) from the regiment (composition)

    The full autonomy of the train is supposed to be the same as the Molodets - 30 days.

    Maybe the theoretical one was 30 days, although I heard figures from 21-28 days from knowledgeable people, but the flight never lasted more than 14

    Quote: Legacy of the Ancestors
    Than to defraud these BZHRK, recreating their production and infrastructure, it would be easier to concentrate on increasing the production of mobile Topol-M, Yars.

    So I already wrote about the same. Okay, they would be planning to deploy 7 divisions, as planned under the USSR (deployed 3). And even then, not everywhere the structures were built. As they say Krasnoyarsk ride in Perm on TO. But to fence the garden because ONE DIVISION... Not only will it be necessary to create PPD from scratch, moreover, it will be necessary to deploy small-scale production of missiles. And this, in spite of the fact that they write here neither Yars, nor Avangard / Rubezh, nor Bulava. Something created on their basis, which means that the finished one will not be put there. Further, it is generally not clear what the structure of this BZHRK would be. Everything was clear with the old one. Three diesel locomotives, three launch modules, a command module, 5 auxiliary cars. If necessary, the command module and auxiliary cars remained at point X, and the modules moved to points X1, X2, X3. How is it now? How many launch modules will there be? 3 or 6? if there are three, then the train will be slightly longer - 20 cars, if 6 - there will be about 30 cars. Again, the point is to keep everyone together (if you don't take them apart)? So that if something happens, covered with one ammunition? Dispersion is one of the ways to ensure that part of the regiment is still shot. Putting 3 diesel locomotives on again - this will again be an unmasking sign. Usually, three diesel locomotives pull trains of several dozen cars (50-60, I don't know how now).

    Quote: NEXUS
    But there is an opinion that upon the adoption of the Sarmatian ICBM, which will be exactly 100 tons (as stated), the BZHRK will also be equipped with this missile

    Sorry, dear NEXUSbut do not believe such opinions. This is bullshit. I am living NEVER not put on the BZHRK. In addition, there is so much nonsense on the Internet about "Sarmat" that your ears faint. At the same time, mutually exclusive nonsense. About "Sarmat" with a 100% guarantee is known only:
    a) What is a liquid rocket
    b) that it is a heavy rocket
    c) that it is a rocket HUNDRED CLASS

    Only one conclusion can be drawn from this. "Sarmat" will have a launch weight of over 106 tons. And that's all. And more than 106 are 120, 140 and 180 tons. All the rest are the nonsense of our media and PR generals and politicians. How nonsense are their statements that "Sarmat" will deliver a present of 10 tons to America via the South Pole. It is enough to take a sheet of paper and roughly calculate "what it will result in in tons"
    1. 0
      28 June 2015 23: 43
      Quote: Old26
      were caused not by a single "low power" of each, but by the fact that each locomotive had to "carry" its own starting module (d

      No.
      profile (bias) of railway tracks in the USSR (Russian Empire)
      Quote: Old26
      Distribution is one way to ensure that part of the regiment is still shot.

      launches are made not anyhow how and where I want, but only from positions.
      meaning in BZHRK-no.

      Quote: Old26
      Zhizhu NEVER put on the BZHRK.

      If the "slurry" was on the nuclear submarine, what prevents it from being put on the BZHRK?
      Stupidity?
      Quote: Old26
      statements that "Sarmat" will deliver a present of 10 tons to America through the South Pole. It is enough to take a sheet of paper and roughly calculate "what it will result in in tons"

      if you "take a piece of paper" then an ICBM with a turbojet engine, in order to send 10 tons there, it will take 30% more starting mass for a turbojet engine than for
      Quote: Old26
      Manure

      it is a priori.
      The power of a rocket engine is (up to) 30% better than that of a turbojet engine. and the MORE MPN, the% more
  39. 0
    28 June 2015 12: 00
    "Appearing out of nowhere, these rocket trains" ////

    How is it "out of nowhere"?

    1) Sleeping rails are highly visible and
    structure visible from space.
    2) ICBMs are very heavy. Not on any rails
    they can be carried. Those. the route is limited.
    3) Need additional locomotives to pull-push
    such a load. Those. trains will look different from the rest.

    The Americans had a similar idea. They refused, considering
    that deep fortified mines are more reliable.
    1. 0
      28 June 2015 17: 26
      Quote: voyaka uh
      1) Sleeping rails are highly visible and
      structure visible from space.

      Planet Earth is generally a very noticeable thing, heh, the enemy will not have to find the railway, but a specific composition on it.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Need additional locomotives to pull-push
      such a load. Those. trains will look different from the rest.

      Freight train - more than three thousand tons. In addition, locomotives (diesel locomotives, electric locomotives, shunting locomotives) are ferried as part of trains and the presence of "extra" locomotives is in the order of things.
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Americans had a similar idea. They refused, considering
      that deep fortified mines are more reliable.

      Because Americans are a nation of money-lenders, not designers, they don’t know how to fuck.
    2. 0
      28 June 2015 23: 46
      Quote: voyaka uh
      1) Sleeping rails are highly visible and
      structure visible from space.

      Well, yes ... and DOP (dear. Common use, WHERE will the ICBM pass?)
      railway Germany

      Germany autobahns

      Find the difference?

      Quote: voyaka uh
      Not on any rails
      they can be carried. Those. the route is limited.

      over all.
      but on ADD (+ bridges) - NOT FOR ALL
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Need additional locomotives to pull-push
      such a load

      Depends on the profile (bias)
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The Americans had a similar idea. They refused, considering
      that deep fortified mines are more reliable.

      nonsense.
      they did not have the Ministry of Railways of the USSR: private traders.
      Do not comply with the secrecy regime (as we have now in JSC or PJSC "Russian Railways")
  40. +2
    28 June 2015 12: 15
    Quote: voyaka uh
    ICBMs are very heavy. Not on any rails you can carry. Those. the route is limited.

    Using modern lightweight solid fuel rockets, you can minimize the impact on the way, but in any case, you need to carry out a huge range of activities. Create field BSPs, if the division is not in the region where it was before, or conduct an audit of the old ones, create a permanent deployment center, create military camps, and much more. But in any case, the difference between the BZHRK and the PGRK is that it is ADDED to the road. And satellite intelligence capabilities have increased compared to the 80s, when such a train was difficult (but not impossible) to detect
  41. +1
    28 June 2015 18: 32
    Quote: Setrac
    Because Americans are a nation of money-lenders, not designers, they don’t know how to fuck.

    Because they know how to count money and choose what is more efficient and cheaper. As for the fact that they do not know how to nichrome, it is worth reading on the resource and materials on the creation of the BZHRK. Moreover, they began such studies for a long time for us. And the car was, like ours, disguised as a director. But if after reading, they found out that it is safer and cheaper in mines - this is their choice
  42. +1
    29 June 2015 21: 39
    Quote: opus
    No.profile (bias) railway tracks in the USSR (Russian Empire)

    Alas, but here you are wrong. the presence of three diesel locomotives was due precisely to the "separation" of the launch modules according to the field launch positions and nothing else.

    Quote: opus
    launches are made not anyhow how and where I want, but only from positions. There is no sense in BZHRK.

    Of course, it is best to start from the starting position. They, by the way, were created more than 200. On the route of movement of the BZHRK stood, and now there are navigation instruments (sensors) installed on the supports. Of course, launching from a pre-prepared position was preferable, but if necessary, the launch could have been made on the route (though with less accuracy). The meaning is in the BZHRK. I see no reason to deploy ONLY one division

    Quote: opus
    If the "slurry" was on the nuclear submarine, what prevents it from being put on the BZHRK?

    No, not stupid. It’s just that the operating conditions of the rocket on the nuclear submarine are different from the operating conditions on the railway ...

    Quote: opus
    if you "take a piece of paper" then an ICBM with a turbojet engine, in order to send 10 tons there, it will take 30% more starting mass for a turbojet engine than for

    And no one argues with that. The question is different. The deputy of the Ministry of Defense is broadcasting that the ICBM will deliver 10 tons to the enemy through the South Pole. And 10 tons is not a throw-away weight, but only combat equipment. You do not need to be seven spans in the forehead to understand that the ratio of combat equipment to the throw weight of an ICBM will be three times greater than that of the same "Global" missile, that is, capable of carrying cargo through the South Pole. Simply put, if an ICBM has a combat equipment equal to, for example, 4,5 tons, then a global one - about 1,5 tons (look at the parameters of an old Soviet missile of the same purpose. Moreover, according to modern treaties, the ratio of combat equipment to throw weight is very clearly prescribed .. Yes, and the ratio of the throw weight to the starting weight has not been canceled. The result of such calculations, if you believe the deputy of the Ministry of Defense will be deplorable. The starting mass will be such that the rocket at the time will be attributed not to the class of 100-ton, but God forbid the class of 300-400 ton ...
  43. 0
    3 July 2015 23: 04
    A new one will appear! Go to the railway museum at Vashavsky train station and see OLD !! How our country dictated its will to the rest of the world !!!
  44. 0
    3 July 2015 23: 04
    Warsaw

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