June 22 - Day of memory and grief. 74 of the year since the beginning of World War II

108
22 June. Talking date in stories countries in the history of its peoples. 74 a year ago, the Great Patriotic War began, which by and large did not end today. It did not end, as there are still tens of thousands of soldiers who gave their lives in the name of the Great Victory, are missing, no burial places have been found yet, until now many residents of Russia, Belarus, Kazakhstan and other former Soviet republics have nothing they know the fate of their relatives, who were called up by the military commissariats and found themselves on the battlefields from Brest and Sevastopol to Moscow and Stalingrad, from Voronezh and Prokhorovka to Konigsberg and Berlin.

June 22 - Day of memory and grief. 74 of the year since the beginning of World War II


June 22 - one of the saddest dates in national history. Date, which was the prologue to the loss of millions of Soviet citizens, the prologue to the destruction of hundreds of Soviet cities and villages, the monstrous atrocities perpetrated by the Nazi criminals against the civilian population, the prologue to Hitler’s plan to turn whole nations into victims of the Nazi bloody ideology.

All human grief and pain are embedded in the epoch-making speech of Yuri Levitan about the attack of Hitler's Germany on the Soviet Union:

Attention! Says Moscow! We convey an important government message.

Citizens and citizens of the Soviet Union!

Today at 4 in the morning, without any declaration of war, the German armed forces attacked the borders of the Soviet Union! The Great Patriotic War of the Soviet people against the Nazi invaders began! Our cause is right! The enemy will be defeated! Victory will be ours!




A lot of interesting evidence is presented in the speech of the People’s Commissar for Foreign Affairs Vyacheslav Molotov:

Citizens and citizens of the Soviet Union!

The Soviet government and its head, Comrade Stalin, instructed me to make the following statement:

Today, at 4 o'clock in the morning, without making any claims to the Soviet Union, without declaring war, German troops attacked our country, attacked our borders in many places and bombed our cities — Zhytomyr, Kiev, Sevastopol, and some others, with more than two hundred killed and wounded. Enemy raids and artillery shelling were also committed from the Romanian and Finnish territories.

This unprecedented attack on our country is a treachery unparalleled in the history of civilized nations. The attack on our country was made despite the fact that a non-aggression treaty was concluded between the USSR and Germany and the Soviet government fulfilled all the conditions of this treaty with good faith. The attack on our country was committed despite the fact that for the entire duration of this treaty the German government has never been able to make a single claim to the USSR for the fulfillment of the treaty. The entire responsibility for this robber attack on the Soviet Union falls entirely on the German fascist rulers.

Already after the attack took place, the German ambassador to Moscow, Schulenburg, was at 5 hour. 30 min. this morning, as the people's commissar of foreign affairs, I made a statement on behalf of my government that the German government decided to go to war against the USSR in connection with the concentration of Red Army units on the eastern German border.


At this point, it is worth allowing yourself to “interrupt” Molotov’s speech for a second. "In connection with the concentration of parts of the Red Army on the eastern German border." Are not the statements of the current supreme representatives of NATO countries (which includes Germany), which has grown to the western borders of the Russian Federation, similar to hearing today, when Russian troops, responding to the cross-border activity of a foreign military bloc, are conducting exercises on their territory? All almost one to one.

Continuation of the speech of the people's commissar V.Molotov:

In response to this, on behalf of the Soviet government, I stated that until the last minute the German government did not make any claims against the Soviet government, that Germany had attacked the USSR, despite the peaceful position of the Soviet Union, and that fascist Germany was the attacking side.

On behalf of the government of the Soviet Union, I must also declare that in no point our troops and ours aviation they didn’t allow the border to be violated, and therefore the statement made this morning by the Romanian radio that allegedly Soviet aircraft fired at Romanian airfields is a complete lie and provocation. The same lie and provocation is all of Hitler’s declaration today, trying to retroactively concoct indictment about the Soviet Union’s non-compliance with the Soviet-German pact.


And here there are analogies. The NATO leadership declares Russia's “militaristic” policy at a time when the armed forces themselves are moving closer and closer to Russian territory. Moreover, in the military bloc they say that this, they say, Russia has approached the borders of NATO. As you can see, this is not a unique statement - such statements have already been made - by the Nazis at the time of the start of the invasion of our country.

Vyacheslav Molotov:
Now that the attack on the Soviet Union has already taken place, the Soviet government has given our troops the order to repel the predatory attack and expel the German troops from the territory of our Motherland.

This war is not imposed on us by the German people, not by the German workers, peasants and intellectuals, whose suffering we understand well, but by the clique of the bloodthirsty fascist rulers of Germany who enslaved the French, Czechs, Poles, Serbs, Norway, Belgium, Denmark, Holland, Greece and other peoples .

The government of the Soviet Union expresses the unshakable confidence that our valiant army and navy and brave Soviet aircrafts will honor their duty to the Motherland, to the Soviet people and deliver a crushing blow to the aggressor.

Not the first time our people have to deal with attacking arrogant enemy. At one time on the campaign of Napoleon in Russia, our people responded with the Patriotic War, and Napoleon was defeated, came to his collapse. The same will happen with the arrogant Hitler, who announced a new campaign against our country. The Red Army and all our people will lead the victorious Patriotic War for the Motherland, for the honor, for freedom.

The Government of the Soviet Union expresses its firm conviction that the entire population of our country, all workers, peasants and intelligentsia, men and women will react with due consciousness to their duties, to their work. All our people must now be united and united as never before. Each of us must demand from ourselves and others the discipline, organization, dedication worthy of a true Soviet patriot, in order to provide all the needs of the Red Army, fleet and aviation to ensure victory over the enemy.

The government calls upon you, citizens and citizens of the Soviet Union, to rally even more closely around our glorious Bolshevik party, around our Soviet government, around our great leader, Comrade Stalin. Our cause is right! The enemy will be defeated! Victory will be ours!




On this day we remember all those who went to the front with weapons in the hands to fight the enemy, we recall all those who were tortured in death camps, who died from wounds and hunger, who, sacrificing themselves for the sake of Victory, worked in the enemy's rear, who shared the last crumb of bread with the children of besieged Leningrad, who literally took out soldiers from the next world in front-line hospitals, who forged a victory for the machine or helped to forge it, giving concerts for fighters literally a few hundred meters from enemy positions. We admire the greatest feat accomplished by the Soviet people during the Great Patriotic War! The bright memory of the fallen and eternal glory to the victorious people!



The Great Patriotic War is also a very serious history lesson, which was given to the country at a great price, and therefore a lesson that none of us can forget.
108 comments
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  1. +25
    22 June 2015 06: 14
    To all veterans, to all who worked behind the scenes in the hospitals of SLAVA. I had two great-grandfathers from this war, my great-grandmother from the Kursk Bulge reached the Reichstag. Thank you all and eternal memory.
    1. +12
      22 June 2015 06: 24
      I agree completely with you ... My grandfather also did not return from the Second World War. He died in 1941 ...
      1. +35
        22 June 2015 06: 27
        I repeat, it is more appropriate here:

        We are sitting with my father, we drank his signature wine from currants, told how they woke up at dawn, June 22, 41 - years in a pioneer camp in Belarus, from the sounds of aerial combat. We ran out into the street, in the sky the familiar I-16s and unfamiliar planes entwined in a hellish tangle, exchanged bursts (tracers sparkle so that it does not look like maneuvers).

        In this battle no one was shot down, the battle shifted beyond the forest horizon.
        In the morning an unfamiliar plane appeared in the sky. The pioneer camp had a beautiful dining room with a glass roof. We had lunch in several shifts. The change of father had already had lunch and left the dining room. An airplane with an unfamiliar silhouette made a call over the dining room. The children screamed joyfully and waved his hands and pioneer caps ...

        A line of two machine guns blew a beautiful glass roof over the dining room, and everything that was under that roof ...

        The surviving children were taken to the forest, then they were led through the forest to the station for a long time, then they were put into the cars and sent to the east of the USSR ...

        Minsk, where my father was from, was bombed, he never saw his relatives again ....
    2. +17
      22 June 2015 06: 35
      One of the most mournful days of our history.
      A day that instantly changed / rewrote / crossed out plans, hopes, the fate of our ancestors - hundreds of millions of people ...
      1. +4
        22 June 2015 10: 05
        Quote: prosto_rgb
        One of the most mournful days of our history.

        1. 0
          23 June 2015 13: 30
          Quote: prosto_rgb
          One of the most mournful days of our history.


          agree

    3. +12
      22 June 2015 07: 18
      I wanted to write a lot, but no words! It is rightly said in the song that "... there is no such family in Russia where your hero would not be remembered ..." My father went to the front at the age of 17, my uncle fought from the first days, my mother worked in a steel workshop from the age of 14 , grandmothers worked in factories, and many more distant relatives fought. The relatives of the grandmother on the father's side were in captivity with young children (they lived near Vyazma). There is only one thing to say - THANKS !!! For what I live, my children and grandchildren! Thanks ! Eternal memory to all who gave their lives on the fields of war, who burned in the sky, who drowned in the seas!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. +7
      22 June 2015 08: 41
      The first hit was the hardest ...
      1. Bombardier
        +12
        22 June 2015 09: 03
        I was in my native village yesterday, went to the former line of defense - women from the village were digging with their hands, including my grandmother Lidiya Ivanovich Sachkova, her husband died in Finnish, the children were left alone at home ....
      2. +1
        22 June 2015 18: 56
        Quote: Mik13
        The first hit was the hardest ...
      3. 0
        23 June 2015 01: 42
        Especially when you consider that Zhukov's order acted - "Do not open the fire"
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. +2
      22 June 2015 23: 44
      74 years separate us from that mournful day

      Everything can be crushed, swept, forgotten,
      Asphalt and shackle in concrete.
      Blowing up the cathedral like an extra building
      To build a stadium at the site of the cemetery.
      Everything can be lost that is collected over the centuries,
      Everything can be silenced, threatening reprisals ...
      But only human memory
      Concrete and it is impossible to exterminate!
  2. +28
    22 June 2015 06: 18
    Probably one of the most famous photographs, which depicts an inscription made by an unknown soldier in the Brest Fortress. That was the stamina and courage of the pioneers of that war. And Hitler intended to take the fortress in stride.
    PS Today I got a diploma defense. Is it a coincidence or not, I don’t know
    1. +2
      22 June 2015 08: 24
      Your cause is right! The diploma must be protected! Good luck!
      1. +5
        22 June 2015 11: 36
        I hasten to report, the diploma is protected ... Excellent!
        1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      22 June 2015 12: 44
      Quote: Alexander_Sasha
      Today I got a diploma defense. Is it a coincidence or not, I don’t know

      profile?
      1. 0
        22 June 2015 13: 14
        Maintenance and repair of motor vehicles
  3. +20
    22 June 2015 06: 19
    The Great Patriotic War is also a very serious history lesson, which was given to the country at a great price, and therefore a lesson that none of us can forget.
    1. +6
      22 June 2015 08: 30
      Eternal Memory to everyone who took the first blow .. We remember everything .. And we will try to be worthy of you!
  4. +8
    22 June 2015 06: 20
    This lesson should not be forgotten by all countries participating in this terrible war. Nowadays, Russia has repeatedly called on NATO countries to remember this.
    1. 0
      22 June 2015 14: 27
      This lesson should not be forgotten by all countries participating in this terrible war. Nowadays, Russia has repeatedly called on NATO countries to remember this.
      But they do not forget. Sanctions have been extended for half a year in Russia laughing
  5. +11
    22 June 2015 06: 22
    The bitter date of the beginning of World War II. Now they are trying to rewrite history in ruins, proving that the Second World War was not and the USSR was already at war with 1939. I would like to spit in the shameless eyes and answer with the lines:
    On the 22 of June exactly at the 4 of the hour / Kiev was bombed / we were announced / the war began /.
    Both of my details went through the war, surviving and ending the war - one in Berlin and the other in Japan, and this day was remembered as the worst in their life. And do not bring us the Lord to go through what they and the x generation have passed. Thank you: grandfathers, fathers, great-grandfathers for your feat and eternal memory
    1. +5
      22 June 2015 11: 42
      D-Master (2) RU Today, 06:22
      Bitter date of the beginning of the Great Patriotic War. Now in ruins they are trying to rewrite history, proving that there was no Second World War and the USSR had fought since 1939. "" "
      ............
      "" Ten days before the war
      22.06.2015/22/1941 The Red Army began to prepare to repel the German invasion long before June XNUMX, XNUMX ...

      ... Directive PBC No. 61582ss of April 29, 1934 in the Workers 'and Peasants' Red Army (Red Army) established three provisions: normal, reinforced and fully prepared ....
      ... "From the directive of the KOVO Military Council to the military councils of the 5th, 6th, 12th, 26 armies. June 11, 1941.

      "1. In order to reduce the combat readiness of cover units and detachments allocated to support border troops, carry out the following activities:

      Rifle, cavalry and artillery units ...
      ... In the early 50s, the Military Scientific Directorate of the General Staff of the USSR Armed Forces conducted a survey of Soviet military leaders regarding the concentration and deployment of troops of the western border military districts in June 1941. They recalled that they had received orders to withdraw their units to concentration areas on June 18-19.

      “Colonel General of the Tank Forces P.P. Poluboyarov (former chief of the armored forces of PribOVO):

      “On June 16, at 23 p.m., the command of the 12th mechanized corps received a directive on putting the unit on alert ... On June 18, the corps commander raised the formations and units on alert and ordered them to be withdrawn to the planned areas. On June 19 and 20, this was done.
      ... http: //www.belvpo.com/en/53821.html
  6. demon13051980
    +10
    22 June 2015 06: 23
    Glory to the people of the Winner !!!

    LOW BOW TO RELEASERS! LIVING AND FAVORING!
    1. +5
      22 June 2015 10: 23
      My grandfather went to war at the age of 18. He fought on the 3rd Ukrainian front. He liberated Romania, Yugoslavia. He was seriously injured in Hungary on Lake Balaton. He returned from the hospital only in the 46th year.
  7. +14
    22 June 2015 06: 26
    22 June 41 the day that Germany will never be forgiven. This day instantly distorted and crossed out the plans, hopes, and fates of all our near and dear ones, hundreds of millions of people ... The worst day in my life, according to my grandmothers.
    And the Russian leadership has a huge responsibility not to prevent it from happening again, so as not to be taken by surprise.
    Unfortunately, the previous guide -labeled and EBN did everything to make it happen again ...
  8. +9
    22 June 2015 06: 33
    Eternal memory to the heroes who saved their homeland from the insidious fascist beast. Both grandfathers fought, went through the whole war, finished one in Germany, the second in Poland, wounded, but returned alive. eternal glory and memory of living and dead heroes!
    1. +6
      22 June 2015 09: 31
      LOW KNOWLEDGE TO THE LIBERATORS! ALIVE AND FALLED !!! 'Cgfcb, j Thank you. That we were born and live!
  9. +10
    22 June 2015 06: 37
    5 grandmother’s brothers, grandfather .. Uncle Vasily died at the age of 11 during a bombing, cut off his head with a splinter, Uncle Stefan died on May 9, 1945, from joy .. the heart could not stand it.
  10. +4
    22 June 2015 06: 37
    Boris Yulin - 1941: The Myth of Disaster
    In my opinion, the most adequate assessment of 1941

    1. +1
      22 June 2015 06: 48
      Quote: tots
      In my opinion, the most adequate assessment of 1941

      Firstly, the very name of the disaster myth suggests that this is a myth and there were no defeats.
      And secondly, the experts divorced, like dogs uncut. A sudden attack, by superior forces.
      You yourself count the forces at the beginning of the warriors.
      1. +3
        22 June 2015 07: 11
        There were defeats, but not disasters!
        1. -1
          22 June 2015 07: 20
          Quote: igorka357
          There were defeats, but not disasters!

          Well, yes, 3 prisoners in the first months of the war, millions of dead are not a disaster for you, it's a defeat.
          Only in this case I can not imagine what disaster means to you.
          As for the defeats themselves, some so-called experts, already now say that they were not defeats, it was almost a success.
          1. +2
            22 June 2015 07: 52
            A catastrophe for me means a defeat in the war! You consider the shreds from the western border to Moscow to be the whole of Russia, but compared to the whole of Russia, it’s just shit, just take Siberia-Urals? What catastrophe? Many prisoners, but defeat, retreat in the first months yes, defeat! We then passed half of Europe, we leveled the enemy’s capital to the earth, our grandfathers hung such Lyuli Fritz that they still remember! The Russians won the war, where is the catastrophe? Now, if you had lost yes! Suvorov ..Kutuzov..Makarov, and Zhukov finally knew military terminology and the concept of tactical retreat, there were woe officers who argue, there were cowards and traitors, there were many prisoners, but the disaster did not happen!
            1. +2
              22 June 2015 08: 07
              Quote: igorka357
              Do you think shreds from the western border to Moscow all over Russia

              What you call a scrap here is thousands of destroyed villages and villages, hundreds of destroyed cities and millions of people killed. Although for you this is just a scrap fool
              Further I see no reason to talk with you.
              1. +1
                22 June 2015 08: 59
                I repeat once again, most people and enterprises were evacuated to the east of the country! Destroyed villages, burnt wooden buildings, destroyed cities, many people died, I don’t argue ... but not millions died and millions were captured as you yell, it’s You’re yelling! In your first months, millions died, millions surrendered, and the last four years of the war no one died or surrendered! Nobody argues the Red Army was defeated at the beginning of the war, but not a disaster! I rest ..)) good luck hi !
            2. The Trick-22
              +3
              22 June 2015 09: 52
              Quote: igorka357
              Catastrophe for me means defeat in war!

              Well, then the Chernobyl explosion is also not a disaster - it did not lead to the extinction of the species Homo sapiens.
              The cauldrons of the 41st, millions of prisoners in the first months of the war, confusion of the leadership, fatal tactical mistakes, the loss of almost the entire tank and aircraft fleet in the west, the monstrous speed of expansion - against the background of the doctrine of "little blood on foreign territory" looks like a catastrophe. Although, of course, a question of terms.
              Quote: igorka357
              The Red Army suffered defeats at the beginning of the war, but not a disaster!

              catastrophic defeats.
              1. +5
                22 June 2015 10: 42
                Quote: Trick-22
                The cauldrons of the 41st, millions of prisoners in the first months of the war, confusion of the leadership, fatal tactical mistakes, the loss of almost the entire tank and aircraft fleet in the west, the monstrous speed of expansion - against the background of the doctrine of "little blood on foreign territory" looks like a catastrophe.

                Hmm ... who told you that the USSR had a doctrine of "little blood on foreign territory"?
                Do not confuse propaganda and doctrine. Propaganda - yes, it was broadcasting about "a little blood, a mighty blow." And the doctrine ... the doctrine said that the war would be long and bloody - and the victory would be won by the one who could take the industry out of the blow and mobilize it faster and better than the enemy.

                The real doctrine of the USSR is best spoken by 15 years of continuous evacuation planning. And the approved standards for irretrievable losses of weapons in the first year of the war (based on which stocks were created and mobilization production was planned). And the breakdown on the ground in the spring of 1941 fortified areas near Vyazma, Mozhaisk and in the southern suburbs of Leningrad (with a shelf life of 1 turn in 1942).
                1. The Trick-22
                  0
                  22 June 2015 11: 33
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  who told you that the USSR had a doctrine of "little blood on foreign territory"?

                  I agree, this is partly a propaganda figure of speech. However, at both operational-strategic games in January 41, which also bore the name "Offensive operation of the front with a breakthrough of the UR, "defense was viewed as a short-term measure to pin down the main enemy forces.
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  And the breakdown on the ground in the spring of 1941 fortified areas near Vyazma, Mozhaisk and in the southern suburbs of Leningrad (with a shelf life of 1 turn in 1942).

                  This does not indicate preparation for
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  long and bloody
                  the war. The Germans also built the bridgeheads of Cologne and the Hindenburg line, but were not going to defend themselves. And in fortification, we gave preference to SD, as close as possible to the new border.
                  1. +2
                    22 June 2015 11: 46
                    Quote: Trick-22
                    However, at both operational-strategic games in January 41, which even had the name "Offensive operation of the front with a breakthrough of the UR," defense was seen as a short-term measure to pin down the main enemy forces.

                    Defense was not considered there at all - for the inability to simulate a border battle. In the introductory notes: the enemy was stopped at the turn of such and such, mobilization and concentration were over - it was time to conduct a frontal offensive operation.
                    Quote: Trick-22
                    The Germans also built the bridgeheads of Cologne and the Hindenburg line, but were not going to defend themselves. And in fortification, we gave preference to SD, as close as possible to the new border.

                    Ahem ... in the first half of 1941, the Germans built UR along the Vistula. Ours, along with the so-called Molotov’s line, they broke on the territory of the UR on the line Rzhev-Vyazma-Spas-Demyansk-Bryansk.

                    Well, mob-planning and evacoplanning still remain. "Starvation strategy" in full growth.
                    1. The Trick-22
                      0
                      22 June 2015 12: 16
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      Defense was not considered there at all - for the inability to simulate a border battle.

                      Well, you can’t model it. But after all, during the front-line exercises of the Western direction, Vatutin gave an introduction, which was practically repeated later by the 4th Hepner Panzer Group on breaking through our positions in the Lida area. Theoretically, it turned out that there were no opportunities for parrying this breakthrough at the disposal of the army. Conclusions were reported to the very top, but sent to ignore.
                      1. 0
                        22 June 2015 17: 42
                        Quote: Trick-22
                        But after all, during the front-line exercises of the Western direction, Vatutin gave an introduction, which was practically repeated later by the 4th Hepner Panzer Group on breaking through our positions in the Lida area. Theoretically, it turned out that there were no opportunities for parrying this breakthrough at the disposal of the army.

                        In practice, they tried to counteract the breakthrough of 4 TGr in advance of the pre-war advancement of the district forces to the areas of concentration and counterattack of two MKs - 3 and 12. And theoretically, he had a chance of success.
                        And practically 3 MK for 2/3, and 12 MK - for 1/2 were pulled apart "for tactical needs" even before the strike. And it turned out that instead of 5 divisions of 2 mechanized corps against 4 TGRs, only 2. 2 TD alone tried to hold back 6 Panzerdivision, and 28 TD in the same way clashed with 1 Panzerdivision.
              2. 0
                22 June 2015 12: 10
                Doctrine ...))) say? Yes, you read Soviet propaganda, it sometimes happened there, for example .... one cart carrier of ammunition with thirty carts with machine guns and armored cars chopped down with an ax ... But this is a fighting spirit , raising the courage of the soldiers, envy of the hero in the good sense of the term ... he could, then I can ... With the real situation, with the strategic planning of operations at the front, this has not even the slightest relationship! Well, who will be the whole to inform the country with the plans of the General Staff of the army, eh? Of course, the Soviet people thought ... everything is fine, we’ll smash the enemy at the border with little blood! And what do you compare the man-made disaster of a particular region with a catastrophe for the entire Russian nation and for the country? comparison!
                1. The Trick-22
                  0
                  22 June 2015 12: 51
                  Quote: igorka357
                  Doctrine ...))) say? Yes, you read Soviet propaganda, it sometimes happened there, for example .... one cart carrier of ammunition with thirty carts with machine guns and armored cars chopped down with an ax ... But this is a fighting spirit raising courage

                  what does the propaganda leaflet have to do with it? Comrade and I Alexey RA actually about prewar planning say propaganda is secondary.
                  Quote: igorka357
                  ! And what do you compare the technological disaster of a particular region with the disaster for the entire Russian nation and for the country?

                  Sorry if you wrote above:
                  Quote: igorka357
                  You consider the shreds from the western border to Moscow as the whole of Russia, and compared to the whole of Russia it’s just shreds,
                  ?
                  So
                  Quote: igorka357
                  stupid limited comparison!

                  quite appropriate. For stupidity, of course, I'm sorry. I hope I’ll be smarter in your comments.
                  1. 0
                    22 June 2015 16: 35
                    wink So pre-war planning, or as you put it earlier, "the doctrine of little blood" ...)))? It is a scraps, and Chernobyl is a man-made disaster on a piece of land! A catastrophe in the military understanding of this word means only one thing ... defeat in a war, everything the rest is tactical and strategic miscalculations that are not fatal for the existence of the state! Of course, the death of people is a catastrophe, retreat and captivity is also a catastrophe, but not in the understanding of this word in which it is expressed by Rezun and others like them! And the death of one person is generally the end of the universe for his relatives and friends! So here's a pun! Sincerely ..))!
                    1. The Trick-22
                      -1
                      22 June 2015 16: 44
                      Quote: igorka357
                      A catastrophe in the military understanding of this word means only one thing ... defeat in the war, everything else is tactical and strategic miscalculations for the country's existence!

                      pointless terminological dispute. For you, the 41st -
                      Quote: igorka357
                      miscalculations not fatal for the existence of the country!
                      , for me - a disaster. I do not insist.
            3. +2
              22 June 2015 10: 12
              Quote: igorka357
              Many prisoners, yes defeat, retreat in the first months of the war yes defeat!

              So, little things, the personnel army disappeared in the boilers of 41go. But what do we care about the little things? Such a position, scattered by people is very detrimental. There are not so many of us left now to hold such a point of view, a million there, a million here, but what significance does this shred have in comparison with the huge Russia ..... It was disasters and tragedies in 41. BIG LETTER. AND FOR THE ARMY AND FOR THE PEOPLE.
              1. The Trick-22
                0
                22 June 2015 10: 20
                Quote: tomket
                It was catastrophes and tragedies that were at 41m. BIG LETTER. AND FOR THE ARMY AND FOR THE PEOPLE.

                I support your comment.
              2. +1
                22 June 2015 16: 54
                Yes, is it really so and disappeared? Throwing people around is certainly a pernicious position ... but, just imagine if there was no order to fight to the death, if our wars ... our grandfathers and grandmothers did not sacrifice their lives believing in victory ... wherever the Wehrmacht reached, did you imagine? And the tough position of the Supreme (227) in relation to deserters and cowards, of which there were quite a few? Everyone criticizes the NKVD and watered workers in combat units, but they did not sit in the rear when the regiment or battalion went into battle, yes what can we say, our generals died on the front line, I hope there is no need to give examples! Only clear leadership (maybe not in the first months of the war) ... of the headquarters headed by the supreme, only great courage and self-sacrifice of our people, only faith in victory, faith in our commanders saved you and me who are now writing, and we must thank those people for giving us this future, at the cost of their lives, and not criticize and sort out their bones "they did it wrong, they did it wrong" .. .!
              3. 0
                22 June 2015 19: 11
                the cadre army exists for this purpose, in order to burn down, hold back the first, most terrible blow of the enemy, and by its death give the country time to mobilize and retaliate. the cadre red army accomplished this task with honor.
          2. +5
            22 June 2015 08: 34
            Sasha! Well, that’s you too! In total there were 2900 thousand troops in the western districts! Everyone was captured or something plus 100 thousand were added. And millions more killed! And Halder acknowledged the first days of the war-the Russians are fighting until the last man, there are few prisoners!
            The first months of the war are not a catastrophe, but a tragedy ....... (and to deny the defeat of the Western districts in border battles is stupid, the facts are stubborn things, although not pleasant, but the Red Army did not defeat).
            And it’s worth admitting (well, it’s not pleasant again) that NPOs and GBVs are to blame for so much of the war that the Wehrmacht took advantage of. blood.
          3. 0
            22 June 2015 10: 07
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            already now they say that it was not a defeat, it was almost a success.

            The other day we almost won a victory in Tsushima. So, the weather factor apparently intervened. And tomorrow we will probably almost crush the entire Wehrmacht near Kiev. In general, all these hysterical vacillations of pseudo-historians are somewhat pestered. Voroshilov is a genius of military leadership, but the Germans reached Leningrad. And Zhukov is a satrap and a non-commissioned officer. However, for some reason, Berlin was not taken by Voroshilov. Despite all his genius. Well, Pavlov prepared for the defense and brilliantly stopped the Army Group Center. As well as Kopec, who brought the entire aviation of the district out of the attack. Kopets found the courage to shoot himself, but Pavlov did not. However, "historians" claim that everything was different.
          4. +1
            22 June 2015 12: 56
            Yes, there were defeats, but not DISASTERS! Yes, VERY SEVERE defeats !!!! Millions of soldiers of the dead and prisoners !!!! These are very bitter facts! But not a disaster! because after the disaster can’t recover.
          5. 0
            22 June 2015 13: 09
            HOW STALIN THE SOVIET UNION WAS PREPARING FOR THE WAR WITH THE FASCIS. DOES STALIN REALLY IGNORE SCIENTIFIC ACKNOWLEDGMENTS THAT THE WAR WILL BEGIN IN JUNE 1941?
            http://politklubok.ru/blog/43956889620/Kak-Stalin-Sovetskiy-Soyuz-k-voyne-s-fash
            istami-gotovil.-Deystvi? utm_campaign = transit & utm_source = main & utm_medium = page_0 & d
            omain=mirtesen.ru&paid=1&pad=1&mid=03D3D796D43FD2567B32DF21892DF376
      2. +3
        22 June 2015 07: 55
        Just the same "experts" who find fault with the Soviet leadership and divorced, however, you are among them, but their opponents are much less!
        1. wanderer_032
          +3
          22 June 2015 09: 56
          Quote: igorka357
          Just the same "experts" who find fault with the Soviet leadership and divorced, however, you are among them, but their opponents are much less!


          I agree. If those people who were at that time in leading positions in state power were completely worthless, then how could the Soviet Union have won in this war?

          But with Boris Vitalievich Yulin I do not quite agree in that part that our then leadership could prepare a preventive military operation aimed at the defeat of Nazi Germany. A lot of factors indicate this, but this plan crashed due to systemic and personnel errors of the country's leadership.

          As for the combat experience of the Red Army, it was. And not the most backward, if we recall the breakthrough of the "Mannerheim Line" (which was considered by many Western military theorists to be insurmountable) in the winter campaign of 1939-40, as well as the military operation in the Far East (Khalkhin Gol). In addition, a significant part of the civilian population had previously experienced, moreover, foreign intervention and civil war. There were also in our military history the struggle against the Basmachs in Central Asia, and the events at the Chinese Eastern Railway.
          In general, the Red Army had a wealth of combat experience.
          Many of the experienced officers, as well as many people from the younger commanders of the Red Army, were direct participants in these events.
          So the combat experience was full. The experience was not only in the conduct of hostilities against a well-equipped enemy who already had experience in the massive use of large ground mechanized units together with large units of military aviation and artillery, such as the Nazi-German troops and their allies.
          That kind of experience the Red Army did not have.
          But at that time, precisely such a method of warfare was still quite new, in world military practice in general. And in fact, no one really had him seriously, except the Germans.
          And therefore, to compete with them in this form of military art at that time was very difficult, and by the strength of this was far from every army in the world.
          Our ancestors managed not only to delay the advance of this military machine in the first period of the war, but also to completely stop its progress in certain areas, as well as completely hamper its actions. In fact, they sometimes succeeded in the impossible.

          The German-fascist "blitzkrieg" began to slip seriously even during the first battles of the Great Patriotic War (Brest alone is worth something). Who does not believe open "War Diary" F. Halder and read. By the way, he was not the only one who wrote about this.
          Von Mellentin, Guderian, and many others also wrote about this.
          1. -1
            22 June 2015 10: 59
            Quote: wanderer_032
            (which Brest alone is worth).

            How did the assault on Brest affect the overall pace of advancement of Army Group Center? The answer is no, everything went as planned. Moving units go forward, infantry units are cleaning the cauldrons. As it was near Brest.
            Quote: wanderer_032
            So the combat experience was full.

            And why then did they leave for Moscow?
            Quote: wanderer_032
            A lot of factors indicate this, but this plan crashed due to systemic and personnel errors of the country's leadership.

            And what, have they already discovered the date of the attack on Germany in the archives? Somewhere already read about it, not Rezun case?)))
            1. wanderer_032
              +2
              22 June 2015 14: 47
              Quote: tomket
              And how the storming of Brest affected the overall pace of advancement of the Army Group "Center"


              But the forces were constrained, German. Even if only partially. The enemy was forced to spend time, resources and constantly carry out operations to clean up the Brest Fortress from those who were in it.

              The Germans decided in advance that the Brest Fortress would have to be taken only by infantry - without tanks. Their use was hindered by forests, swamps, river channels and canals surrounding the fortress. The immediate task of the 45th division was: to capture the Brest Fortress, the railway bridge across the Bug northwest of the fortress and several bridges across the Bug and Mukhavets rivers inside, south and east of the fortress. By the end of the day on June 22, the division was supposed to advance 7-8 kilometers deep into Soviet territory. Confident Hitler strategists took no more than eight hours to take the fortune.
              http://reskov.narod.ru/fortress/brestkrepost.html

              It was originally planned like this. And local battles for the Brest Fortress lasted more than a month. Separate centers of resistance were seen even in November 1941.
              This is based on these historical inscriptions:
              "We will die, but we will not leave the fortress", "I am dying, but I do not give up. Farewell, Motherland. 20.11.41."

              In just 8 days of fighting, the 45th AP of the Wehrmacht lost:
              The losses were heavy; they are: 32 officers, 421 non-commissioned officers and soldiers killed or missing 31 officers, 637 non-commissioned officers and soldiers injured.
              http://maxpark.com/community/14/content/2265671

              For comparison - during the Polish campaign, the 45th division, having fought 400 kilometers in 13 days, lost 158 ​​people killed and 360 wounded.
              http://reskov.narod.ru/fortress/brestkrepost.html

              For 8 days of fighting, the defenders of the fortress destroyed an entire battalion and bled an entire regiment of the 45th PD of the Wehrmacht. That is about 1/3 of the total number of the division.
              And how many losses the Germans suffered there, there are still no reliable data.
              But judging by the time, the numbers for any one in a thousand should only be killed, if not more.
              Brest came at a high price. And this is just one local battle in this big battle.

              And the total losses of the Germans killed on 30.6.1941/30/1941 - the total losses of the German army on the Eastern Front by June 8886, XNUMX amounted to XNUMX killed.
              http://reskov.narod.ru/fortress/brestkrepost.html

              That is, in 8 days their entire division was killed, without a small amount.
            2. wanderer_032
              +2
              22 June 2015 14: 59
              Quote: tomket
              And why then did they leave for Moscow?


              Because the strategic initiative was in the hands of the enemy.
              This was expressed primarily by the suddenness of the strike in the early days of the war, almost complete superiority in the air, control of all important communications by the enemy troops, large losses of weapons, military equipment, material and technical units and personnel by the Red Army.
              The first blow of the Germans was very strong, like a hurricane.
              1. Ulan
                +2
                22 June 2015 17: 10
                I agree. The suddenness was expressed primarily not in the fact that the blow was not expected, but firstly, the main blow was delivered in the western direction and the force of the blow.
                The concept of the outbreak of war, developed at that time by the General Staff, provided that the war would begin by attacking our borders with limited invasion forces. Initial operations before the clash of the main forces will last up to one and a half to two weeks, which should be enough to mobilize and concentrate and deploy the main forces.
                The Germans hit almost all the available forces, leaving an insignificant reserve. Moreover, the Germans were able to create three to five and somewhere tenfold superiority in the areas of the main attacks.
                Sudden was the force of the blow.
              2. 0
                22 June 2015 20: 59
                Dear wanderer! And why did the Wehrmacht take the strategic initiative ?! What suddenness are you talking about? Why did the Luftwaffe gain control in the air ?! How did the Red Army's multiple superiority in technology evaporate in a month ?!
                Was it not because he was strong as a hurricane, that he fell into the "holes from the donut" ?! Who was this cool-star who substituted the troops of the Western districts for a predictable, systematic defeat ?! Who said that we have nothing to learn from the Wehrmacht, they are all They took from us! And who was supposed to closely monitor the experience of a potential enemy in the Polish and Western companies ?! What was a revelation for the NKO and the General Staff of the concentration of powerful mobile (tank and motorized) strike groups in a narrow sector and the Cannes strategy ?! The 1st echelon was pulled into a "string" and with a gap between the cover echelons from 100 to 200 km ?! NPO and General Staff themselves created ALL prerequisites for the defeat of the troops of the border districts and, as a result, a similar start of the war.
                1. wanderer_032
                  0
                  22 June 2015 21: 36
                  Quote: Predator
                  What was the revelation for the NKO and the General Staff of the concentration of powerful mobile (tank and motorized) strike groups in a narrow sector and the Cannes strategy ?!


                  Surely not.

                  Quote: Predator
                  Why were the troops of the 1st echelon pulled out in a "string" and with a gap between cover echelons from 100 to 200 km ?!


                  They didn’t want to attract the attention of the Germans, I suppose. If the Germans realized that a serious defense was being built, or the Red Army was pulling large military forces to the border, then this, in principle, could provoke the Germans to change the plan regarding the start date of the operation to an earlier date. In addition, the Germans could attract even more forces for the "Barbarossa". Considering the more developed network of railways and highways in Europe, in comparison with the USSR of that period, as well as significantly shorter distances. That the Supreme Command Headquarters was in no way profitable.
                  The Supreme High Command headquarters, with all its might, tried to delay this period to a later period and not provoke the enemy to his premature actions that were unfavorable to her (it is from here that all orders go that it was forbidden to use weapons in border conflicts that had at that time).
                  Thus, the Stavka wanted to demonstrate to the enemy that there were no serious forces of the Red Army in the border regions of the USSR.
                  It must be understood that there was active misinformation on both sides towards the enemy, which spread through all possible channels.
                  And we were defeated in this.

                  Quote: Predator
                  And who was to closely monitor the experience of a likely adversary in Polish and Western companies ?!


                  He who should have watched. And he also delivered reports on time. It’s just that someone was let down by overconfidence that with the help of such technology and in such quantity (this is me about tanks, planes, etc.) the Germans are unlikely to be able to carry out their main plan. And even seriously try to do it.
                  In addition, there was evidence that the German army was not preparing to conduct military operations in the winter on the territory of the USSR (and this was really so, remember the frostbitten German soldiers in the winter of 1941-42). There was also evidence that the Reich industry was operating in peacetime and was not increasing the rate of production of weapons, military equipment and, most importantly, ammunition.
            3. wanderer_032
              +1
              22 June 2015 15: 12
              Quote: tomket
              And what, have they already discovered the date of the attack on Germany in the archives? Somewhere already read about it, not Rezun case?)))


              In this, not date plays a decisive role, but the deployment of forces and the armed forces before an armed conflict. An essential role is also played by weapons systems and military equipment that were in service with the parties. Or rather that factor why were they created, for the conduct of the nature of the fighting. The awl in a bag cannot be hidden.

              Here you are such a big wise guy, then answer a simple question:

              What were the ABC-35 and SVT-38 rifles designed for?
              As well as submachine guns PPD-40 and light machine gun DP-27.

              And more:

              Why were the KV-1 and KV-2 tanks created?
              What is their purpose?

              Another question: why were the BT, T-26, T-28, T-35 series tanks created?

              Other questions: Why was the BB-1 short-range bomber (SU-2) created, as well as the SB bomber? Why was the IL-2 manufactured in a single version, if it was originally designed as a double?

              And again: For what purpose did they end up on the western borders of our country in 1941?
              If a non-aggression treaty was concluded with the Germans.

              Enough for a start.
              1. Ulan
                +1
                22 June 2015 15: 49
                And what is your option? I’ll answer your questions simply - this weapon was created to defeat the enemy. Are you of a different opinion?
                1. Ulan
                  +2
                  22 June 2015 17: 15
                  It's wonderful to pass, but answer the question? Only amateurs consider the amount of equipment and on this basis draw conclusions about intentions.
                  Glory to Mr. Rezun, many brains powdered, "aggressive tanks" and "aircraft-jackals."
                  But to read the military doctrine of the USSR of that time is laziness. And it says explicitly that the Red Army should be able (forces and means) to wage war on two fronts simultaneously, moreover on the western, against one or against a coalition of states.
                  Hence the calculation of the required size of the army and the need for quantity and types of weapons.
                  1. wanderer_032
                    0
                    22 June 2015 21: 58
                    Quote: Ulan
                    Glory to Mr. Rezun, many brains powdered, "aggressive tanks" and "aircraft-jackals."


                    But he did not develop them. And he did not draw up and approve technical specifications for their development and production. wink smile

                    Quote: Ulan
                    But to read the military doctrine of the USSR of that time is too lazy


                    In accordance with Soviet doctrine, our troops, having repelled the first attack of the enemy, had to go on the offensive themselves, defeat the enemy troops in East Prussia and in the Warsaw region go to the Vistula in its lower reaches. At the same time, an auxiliary strike should be struck on the left wing of the front against Ivan the City, with the task of defeating the enemy’s Lublin grouping and then entering the Vistula in its middle course. The plan describes in detail the directions of strikes, areas of concentration, the number of troops, their tasks, as well as the tasks of fleets, aviation, and so on.
                    The plan was developed by the chief of the General Staff B. M. Shaposhnikov, the chief of the operational management by Lieutenant General N. F. Vatutin.
                    http://xreferat.ru/35/273-2-problemy-formirovanie-voenno-strategicheskoiy-doktri

                    ny-v-sssr-na-kanune-iv-gody-velikoiy-otechestvennoiy-voiyny.html

                    The problem was largely that our troops did not have time to arrive and turn around to retaliate.
                    1. Ulan
                      0
                      23 June 2015 10: 00
                      It's like that. And I completely agree. Only you confuse the doctrine with a specific plan.
                      If you believe Martirosyan, then Zhukov’s Shaposhnikov’s plan was changed. And not for the better.
                2. wanderer_032
                  0
                  22 June 2015 21: 04
                  Quote: Ulan
                  I’ll answer your questions simply - this weapon was created to defeat the enemy.


                  This is a very vague wording; for preschool and primary school children this answer will come down. Because any weapon is created for these basic purposes.

                  But any type of weapons and military equipment is designed for specific purposes according to the technical specifications.
                  At that time, TK was issued by the People’s Commissariat of Defense (NPO USSR) together with the General Staff of the Red Army of the USSR, the first was personally headed by I.V. Stalin, the second directly obeyed him.
                  The People’s Commissariat of the Defense Industry (1936-1939) was responsible for the organization of production and production itself, which was then divided into separate branch people's commissariats. The People’s Commissariat for Heavy Engineering (armored vehicles) was also involved in this.
                  In addition, any type of armament and military equipment is created under the military doctrine adopted by the General Staff at the current moment in the country, as well as with an eye to the short-term / medium-term / long-term (depending on the type of weapon / military system). This is done so that the weapons system or military equipment does not have time to become morally or physically obsolete.

                  Quote: Ulan
                  And what is your option?


                  This I asked a question. Let the one to whom he is asked answer.
              2. The Trick-22
                0
                22 June 2015 17: 51
                Quote: wanderer_032
                What were the ABC-35 and SVT-38 rifles designed for? ... PPD-40 and the DP-27 light machine gun ... KV-1 and KV-2 tanks? ... BT, T-26, T-28, T-35? .... BB-1 (SU-2), as well as an SB bomber? ... Why IL-2 was manufactured in a single-seat version ... Enough for a start.

                Yeah. To start. Well, so enlighten - for what and why? Especially regarding small arms. Very curious.
                1. wanderer_032
                  0
                  22 June 2015 22: 19
                  Quote: Trick-22
                  Yeah. To start. Well, so enlighten - for what and why? Especially regarding small arms. Very curious.


                  Uh, no. Let us be enlightened by the great wise guy to whom the question was asked.
          2. +1
            22 June 2015 11: 12
            Quote: wanderer_032
            As for the combat experience of the Red Army, it was. And not the most backward, if we recall the breakthrough of the "Mannerheim Line" (which was considered by many Western military theorists to be insurmountable) in the winter campaign of 1939-40, as well as the military operation in the Far East (Khalkhin Gol).

            Parts that had the Khalkhin-Gol experience remained in the Far East.
            As far as the Finnish one, then in the Special Forces of the Red Army I got an extremely specific experience of breaking through a fortified enemy strip in rugged wooded and swampy areas in winter conditions. Moreover, at the meeting following the results of 1940, inspectors complained that Finnish was reproduced everywhere in the exercises - even in Transcaucasia the breakthrough of SD in the swamp forests was being played out.
            Quote: wanderer_032
            So the combat experience was full. The experience was not only in the conduct of hostilities against a well-equipped enemy who already had experience in the massive use of large ground mechanized units together with large units of military aviation and artillery, such as the Nazi-German troops and their allies.

            Also, there was no own experience of the actions of large mechanized compounds in real conditions. The maximum level is the tank brigade. According to the results of the Polish campaign, it was decided to disband the Mehkorpus in general for complete disruption (it is not surprising with the OShs of the time).
            It is noteworthy that the first teachings of a fully equipped mechanized corps arr. 1940 should have been held in September 1941. And based on the results of these exercises, a decision had to be made - how to cut the states. Because the mechanized corps even theoretically did not climb into the breakthrough strip and completely paralyzed its own rear.
            1. The Trick-22
              0
              22 June 2015 12: 40
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Parts that had the Khalkhin-Gol experience remained in the Far East.
              As far as the Finnish one, then in the Special Forces of the Red Army I got an extremely specific experience of breaking through a fortified enemy strip in rugged wooded and swampy areas in winter conditions.

              I absolutely agree. A valuable conclusion from Zimnaya was, perhaps, in the depressing absence of a junior command link. Also
              Quote: wanderer_032
              The Mannerheim Lines (considered insurmountable by many Western military theorists)
              it is doubtful that by 1939 any "lines" at all could be considered "insurmountable".
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Because the mechanized corps even theoretically did not climb into the breakthrough strip and completely paralyzed its own rear.

              besides - poor air defense cover and limited mobility infantry.
              1. +2
                22 June 2015 14: 47
                Quote: Trick-22
                I absolutely agree. A valuable conclusion from Zimnaya was, perhaps, in the depressing absence of a junior command link.

                Not only junior, but also average. You remember the brief conclusions on the results of the SPF, voiced some at the ever-memorable "Meeting": there are no cultural, qualified and educated command personnel or only a few, there are no competent staff officers. wink
                1. The Trick-22
                  +1
                  22 June 2015 15: 18
                  Quote: Alexey RA
                  voiced by someone at the ever-memorable "Meeting"

                  and yes again. It would be nice to comrade wanderer_032 speech some at the meeting 17.04.40 re-read) By the way, about
                  Quote: wanderer_032
                  as well as the military operation in the Far East (Khalkhin Gol)
                  on the topic of "invaluable combat experience" can be answered with a quote some:

                  "Minor episodes in Manchuria, near Lake Khasan or in Mongolia are nonsense, this is not a war - these are isolated episodes on a strictly limited patch."(with)
                  1. +1
                    22 June 2015 17: 45
                    Quote: Trick-22
                    "Minor episodes in Manchuria, near Lake Hasan or in Mongolia are nonsense, this is not a war - these are individual episodes in a strictly limited patch." (C)

                    Japan was afraid to start a war, we didn’t want this either, and some test of strength on the patch showed that Japan had failed. They had 2-3 divisions and we have 2-3 divisions in Mongolia, the same number on Hassan. Our army has not yet waged a real, serious war. (C)

                    In general, it’s sometimes very nice to quote conclusions some according to the red army arr. 1939-1940 without specifying the author of the quote - they immediately write about defeatism, alarmism, slander and humiliation. laughing

                    And if you start to quote the act of acceptance of the Red Army of 1940 ... or quotes from the docks given in the incredibly scandalous work of the herehistorians-defilers Andreas and Dimitros "Is faith strong? Where have the children of the God-Emperor gone?"
                    1. The Trick-22
                      0
                      22 June 2015 18: 11
                      Quote: Alexey RA
                      In general, it’s sometimes very pleasant to quote the conclusions of someone in the Red Army arr. 1939-1940 without specifying the author of the quote - they immediately write about defeatism, alarmism, slander and humiliation.

                      And if you start citing the act of acceptance of the Red Army in 1940 ... or quotes from the docks given in the incredibly scandalous work of the herehistorians-defilers Andreas and Dimitros "Is faith strong? Where did the children of the God-Emperor disappear?"

                      + 100!
                      laughing
              2. wanderer_032
                -1
                22 June 2015 15: 27
                Quote: Trick-22
                it is doubtful that by 1939 any "lines" at all could be considered "insurmountable".


                It's good to talk on the couch for a beer.
                And in fact:

                Everything is written in quite some detail:
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CB%E8%ED%E8%FF_%CC%E0%ED%ED%E5%F0%E3%E5%E9%EC%E0

                Here is another reference:
                http://army.armor.kiev.ua/fort/findot.shtml
                1. The Trick-22
                  +1
                  22 June 2015 15: 39
                  Quote: wanderer_032
                  It's good to talk on the couch for a beer.
                  And in fact:

                  Everything is written in quite some detail:
                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CB%E8%ED%E8%FF_%CC%E0%ED%ED%E5%F0%E3%E5%E9%EC%E0

                  Well, I read:
                  Where about
                  Quote: wanderer_032
                  The Mannerheim Lines (considered insurmountable by many Western military theorists)

                  ?
                  1. wanderer_032
                    0
                    22 June 2015 22: 17
                    Quote: Trick-22
                    Where about


                    The fact that the Red Army, having a clear superiority in forces (at the time of the outbreak of the war, almost one and a half times in personnel, five times in artillery, two times in machine guns, and the vast majority in tanks and planes) overcame the defensive line, which had a depth of only about 90 kilometers, almost three months, were explained, in particular, by the huge number of extremely strong bunkers, for each of which it was necessary to wage a fierce battle, to use tanks to silence these bunkers, and heavy artillery to break through the walls of these heavy-duty bunkers.

                    Meanwhile, the main difficulty in the fight against the Finnish bunkers was that these structures were skillfully applied to the terrain and were located so that from a great distance they were practically invisible (hidden by folds of the terrain, forest), and our tanks approached them and guns often could not because of the many natural and artificial obstacles. In addition, many of the bunkers were intended for flanking fire and from the front were generally not visible and inaccessible to flat fire. And if you deploy a tank for firing at the bunker, then he exposes his side to the fire from the front.

                    So, according to the compilers of the book "Secrets and Lessons of the Winter War," the length of the Mannerheim Line was about 135 kilometers, and its depth was about 90 kilometers. This line included three main and two intermediate defense lines. On the three main lanes there were over two thousand bunkers and bunkers, of which about 280 were reinforced concrete machine-gun artillery firing points.
                    http://army.armor.kiev.ua/fort/findot.shtml
                    1. wanderer_032
                      0
                      22 June 2015 22: 22
                      Engineering barriers

                      The main types of anti-personnel obstacles were wire nets and mines. Additionally, slingshots were installed, which were slightly different from the Soviet slingshots or the Bruno spiral. These anti-personnel obstacles were complemented by anti-tank ones.

                      For the purpose of saving money, the holes were made of low-quality concrete, which easily crumbled under the fire of the guns that were widely used in the Winter War of the T-28 and T-28M tanks [3] with a caliber of 76,2 mm [10]. They were usually placed in four rows, two meters from one another, in a checkerboard pattern. Rows of stones were sometimes reinforced by wire fences, and in other cases by moats and scars. Thus, anti-tank obstacles turned simultaneously into anti-personnel. The most powerful obstacles were at an altitude of 65,5 at bunker No. 006 and at Khotinen, at bunkers No. 45, 35 and 40, which were the main ones in the defense system of Mezhbolotnoy and Sumy resistance nodes. At DotA No. 006, the wire network reached 45 rows, of which the first 42 rows were on metal poles 60 centimeters high, embedded in concrete. The hollows in this place had 12 rows of stones and were located in the middle of the wire. To undermine the fake, it was necessary to go through 18 rows of wire under three-four-layer fire and 100-150 meters from the front edge of the enemy’s defense. In some cases, the area between the bunkers and the bunkers was occupied by residential buildings. They were usually located on the outskirts of the village and were made of granite, and the wall thickness reached 1 meter or more. Such houses, if necessary, turned into defensive fortifications.

                      Finnish sappers managed to erect about 136 km of anti-tank obstacles and about 330 km of wire fences along the main defense line.
                      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CB%E8%ED%E8%FF_%CC%E0%ED%ED%E5%F0%E3%E5%E9%EC%E0
                      1. wanderer_032
                        0
                        22 June 2015 22: 25
                        For your information:

                        Antitank gouges - wooden poles or granite blocks buried in rows in a certain order, later pyramidal concrete or reinforced concrete products (structures) used as an engineering barrage of a fortification type.
                        Designed to impede the advancement of tanks and equipment of tank units and enemy units. Small anti-tank gouges should raise the bottom of the tank, removing the tracks from the ground, or damage the bottom and transmission parts; can be disguised. Large anti-tank gouges should make it difficult to clear passageways with their size. Often combined with minefields and wire fences. In the long-term fortification of World War II, up to 10-20 rows of grooves were used, surrounded by 20-30 rows of barbed wire.
                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Противотанковый_надолб
                      2. wanderer_032
                        0
                        22 June 2015 22: 26
                        Escarp (French escarpe - "slope, slope") - initially - a steep internal slope of the moat of long-term or field fortification. Nowadays, there is also an anti-tank (anti-transport) earthen obstacle in the form of a high (2-3 m) steep slope of a hill slope (river bank) facing the enemy and having a steepness of 15 to 45 °.

                        A recess is opened in the slope in such a way as to obtain a horizontal platform ending with an artificial wall. Soil excavated during excavation is thrown to the edge of the site towards the lowering of the slope, a parapet is formed from it in front of the escarpment site.

                        The effect of the escarp is that the enemy tank, climbing the slope and crossing the parapet, is on the site in front of an earthen wall, which, according to its technical characteristics, cannot be overcome and because of which it cannot fire. The purpose of the parapet is to mask the escarp and protect the walls of the escarp from destruction by cannon fire.

                        Kontereskarp - initially - the closest slope of the external castle moat closest to the enemy. Nowadays - an anti-tank obstacle in the form of a steep slice (3-4 m) of the slope of the terrain, facing the defender. Designed to capsize tanks when descending from a height.

                        Escarps are used in equipping defensive lines on uneven terrain and along river banks. The use of eskarps is limited, on the one hand, by the significant amount of necessary earthwork, and on the other, by the presence of natural slopes facing the enemy, falling into the range of angles of 15-45 °.
                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Эскарп
                2. The Trick-22
                  0
                  22 June 2015 15: 48
                  Quote: wanderer_032
                  Here is another reference:
                  http://army.armor.kiev.ua/fort/findot.shtml

                  So what? where is there about "insurmountability"? Don't exaggerate. Don't you think that the twentieth century made some adjustments to the meaning and assessment of the "impassability" of "ramparts", "lines" and other long-term fortifications?
            2. wanderer_032
              0
              22 June 2015 15: 21
              Quote: Alexey RA
              Also, there was no own experience of the actions of large mechanized compounds in real conditions.


              I completely agree with this.
        2. +1
          22 June 2015 10: 53
          Quote: igorka357
          Just the same "experts" who find fault with the Soviet leadership and divorced, however, you are among them, but their opponents are much less!

          In general, I am a supporter of the fact that the main factor in the 41 tragedy of the year was still the Wehrmacht, and not the Soviet leadership. However, I do not share your opinion that the Soviet leadership is infallible. And the rainy day of the calendar, it still exists. Despite the fact that then there was the GREAT VICTORY.
          1. The Trick-22
            0
            22 June 2015 11: 05
            Quote: tomket
            In general, I am a supporter of the fact that the main factor in the 41 tragedy of the year was still the Wehrmacht, and not the Soviet leadership. However, I do not share your opinion that the Soviet leadership is infallible. And the rainy day of the calendar, it still exists. Despite the fact that then there was the GREAT VICTORY.

            and for this comment +100.
            I do not consider it appropriate in this sensitive issue to make a vulgar division into "hats" and "detractors". Approaching "woe to the vanquished" and "not judging the winners" is somewhat incorrect here, IMHO.
            1. Ulan
              +1
              22 June 2015 16: 04
              Who argues. You need to approach objectively, and not admire "freeway locomotives", a la Rezun.
              1. The Trick-22
                0
                22 June 2015 21: 11
                Quote: Ulan
                You need to approach objectively

                laughing That is the problem.
          2. +1
            22 June 2015 11: 55
            Yes, I agree with you, read above, I wrote that there were grief commanders and cowards traitors ... and you can’t give me an example where I wrote that the Soviet leadership acted 100% correctly, there were miscalculations, and a rainy day exists, but the disaster was prevented by our glorious grandfathers, and we must not forget about it !!!
          3. Ulan
            +4
            22 June 2015 16: 03
            Of course the Wehrmacht. Everyone forgets about one important point - logistics. After the rapid defeat of France in the 1940 campaign, the strategic situation for the Red Army sharply worsened. No one expected that the French army, not inferior to the Wehrmacht, but in some ways superior, would be defeated so quickly.
            After this, the obviously losing first phase of the war with Germany became inevitable for the USSR.
            The Soviet Union under no circumstances could identify Germany in strategic deployment.
            The reason is simple - the Wehrmacht was already mobilized with equipped and deployed rear. The throughput and carrying capacity of railways and highways west of the Soviet border with Germany was at least twice as high as in Soviet territory.
            That is, if the USSR had begun open mobilization and the massive transfer of troops to the western borders, the Wehrmacht would have done it twice as fast and Germany accused the USSR of aggression would have dealt a blow. The result could be much worse.
            That is why when Zhukov presented to Stalin a draft of his "Deployment Considerations" of May 15, 41, where he advised "to get ahead of Germany in strategic deployment. Stalin pulled him back sharply.
            May 15, 1941, this was no longer possible.
            By the way, Rezun, this draft, rejected by Stalin, passes off as a mythical plan "Thunderstorm".
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. alt
        +6
        22 June 2015 09: 32
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        And secondly, the experts divorced, like dogs uncut. A sudden attack, by superior forces.
        You yourself count the forces at the beginning of the warriors.


        How do you compare forces at the start of the war? Virtually the entire economy of Europe worked for fascist Germany. The Wehrmacht used 70% of its forces to invade the USSR. And this is 5 500 000 people. + 900 000 people from the armies of Finland, Romania and Hungary. In the western border districts, there were 2, which is about 743% of the land forces of the USSR. Moreover, the main groups of the Red Army were in Ukraine and covered the industrial areas of the South. (As is known from the front-line territories of the USSR according to the evacuation plan, the evacuation of industry and people was unprecedented in scale and terms.) In the Brest direction, the Nazis exceeded our forces in infantry by 000 times, in tanks by almost 54 times, in aviation by 4,5 times, in artillery by almost 3, 2 times. The USSR could not keep its entire army on the western borders since there was a real threat of an attack from the East and the South by Japan. And general mobilization naturally needed time. Rearmament, general arrangement of new western borders (3,3) simply did not have time to spend before the war. The USSR delayed the outbreak of war with all its might (the same peace treaty with Germany)

        Eternal Glory to the Soviet people, the Red Army, the rear workers, the leadership of the Land of Soviets defending the world from the fascist plague!
        1. 0
          22 June 2015 22: 11
          One hints that small arms and tanks were created for an explicit march to the West (on May 15, 1941 they should have gone), the other complains about the Wehrmacht's overwhelming superiority from experience to lead in deployment and, as a result, 5-10 times superiority in forces and means.
          Now it is no longer a secret that the Soviet leadership knew about the approximate dates of the war (the exact date is not important, it’s enough that the enemy decided), and he knew about the directions of the main attacks: the Baltic States-Leningrad, Minsk-Moscow, Lvov-Kharkov. forces in Ukraine, instead of Belarus, the idea was not Stalin, but Tymoshenko-Zhukov. If NGOs and the General Staff studied the actions of the Wehrmacht in Poland and the West, where he showed that up to 80% of the forces the Wehrmacht concentrates in attack groups in selected areas and that against them you need to have no less forces with reserves in the near rear of these forces. Well, it’s not a feasible thought for NGOs and the General Staff. In terms of deployment from 1940 (Shaposhnikov), this was provided for, in addition, cover troops should be in the near (!!!), and not the rear that is closest to the border. The plan provided for an active, mobile defense with the withdrawal of cover troops deep into our territory until the moment of full mobilization (up to 500 km), and a plan was also prepared for the NX for the evacuation of enterprises, agricultural equipment and assets her and the population. So the strike groups of the Wehrmacht were to meet the tight groupings of our troops, which were systematically moving away to prevent the deep breakthroughs and encirclement of our troops. A clever and only right strategy. And what did we have in June 1941?! The first echelon of cover 76 divisions per 4500 km of border in the west. Oh how! That is more than 30 km per division. And who placed this 1 echelon near the border, that even light field artwork worked on it ?! What could 2 rifle and 1 tank divisions at Brest do, 2 tank groups of one and a half dozen divisions with a defense front of 70 km?! (And 6 SD and 22 TDs were almost destroyed at their locations by artillery strikes). MK Oborin was 60-100 km away from them (the motorized rifle division was 65 km from the tank division, and 22 TDs were already burning corpses in the parks). Who planned this all ?! Who replaced strategy from flexible to static-rigid along the border? ! And even 30 km to the division in a row ...... That's why it happened.
          Okay, this topic is so big that it should be moved to the Forum.
          1. wanderer_032
            0
            22 June 2015 22: 52
            Quote: Predator
            One hints that small arms and tanks were created for a clear trip to the West


            Not all, but most. Especially the BT series. Of which, from the beginning of BT production, the Red Army has had:

            Project 620 - BT-2 of all modifications
            Project 1836 - BT-5 of all modifications
            Project 5328 - BT-7 of all modifications

            Total: pr.7784 pcs. BT only.

            Even taking into account the cancellation of vehicles that had worked out their motor resources, there were still a lot of them in the Red Army. And they were exploited until 1945 (BT-5/7).
    2. 0
      22 June 2015 07: 12
      Yes, quite openly!
    3. +3
      22 June 2015 12: 21
      22 June 2015, 08: 10
      Hitler's first shame: how the Germans miscalculated on the first day of the war

      In 1941, 485 border outposts guarded the USSR border. On June 22, all of them - from the Barents to the Black Sea, according to the Barbarossa plan, were to be destroyed. The Germans were sure that it would take them no more than 30 minutes. But the Nazi’s calculation turned out to be wrong. Hours passed, days, weeks, and border guards continued to provide fierce resistance.

      http://tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201506220810-w2b9.htm
    4. 0
      22 June 2015 13: 57
      Well done Boris Yulin! Beautiful, truthful and OBJECTIVE! But I think so that the blame for 3,5-4,0 million captured Soviet citizens in the first year of the war lies in any way with the country's leadership. This is so many lives !!!!!
      1. Ulan
        +1
        22 June 2015 16: 10
        Of course, on the leadership of the country. Once it leads the country, it means that it is responsible for everything. BUT !!! By this, you are withdrawing from military criticism of the USSR military leadership. And it was clearly not up to par.
        There were those who performed their duty as expected, and there were those who watched the operetta at the time of the attack.
        There were fighter regiments that met the dawn of June 22 in the cockpit of the aircraft, they inflicted the first losses of the Luftwaffe, and there were commanders who spent the night in neighboring villages and did not even leave the duty link, but kept sergeants on duty at the airfield.
        It was like that.
  11. +9
    22 June 2015 06: 38
    "Let us bow to those great years
    To those glorious commanders and fighters
    And the marshals of the country and ordinary
    Let us bow down to both the dead and the living ... "
    1. +6
      22 June 2015 08: 03
      I join, Eugene!
      Hard date!
      Both grandfathers laid their heads in that terrible war! Let us bow our heads and be silent!

      And when a death thunder struck over them,
      To us fate has drawn a different story, To us, not recruited, to us, not attributed
      To the army of the surrounding quarter.

      Gray snowstorm trail has gone dead,
      All calendars flew around.
      Years of our lives, as trains, flew by,
      How we have been orphaned for a long time!

      Remember the guys, remember the guys
      Is it to put it in words
      How they stood at the draft board
      With forever shaved heads.

      Let us recall them all to one today,
      Paved the terrible road.
      Soon there will be no one besides us
      Who heard the first alarm with them.

      And when a death thunder struck the world
      Pipes of the district orchestra,
      We swallowed the sounds of rage and torment
      So that at least the music resurrected!

      Remember the guys, remember the guys
      This is only we have seen with you,
      As they walked from the draft board
      With forever shaved heads.

      V. Berkovsky - D. Sukharev
  12. +5
    22 June 2015 06: 42
    A mournful date, but even such a misfortune did not break Russia (no matter how they call it)! And immediately the words of the song from the "Officers" movie come to mind: "... There is no such family in Russia where there is no HERO ... ", we do not have a single family that was not scorched by the Second World War! And these U-R-O-D-S, again climb to us with their NATO! But there is nothing new: Napoleon, having gathered all of Europe under his banners, went to Russia and where did he end his miserable days !? And as for Hitler, under whom the same Europe submissively "lay", it will be said to the point, the same ended badly! But apparently the LESSON for the current strategists from the United States and their brainchild - NATO, did not go for the future! It seems that for a long time our Cossack women have not given their horses to drink from the Spree, they will guess and give them water from Potom and the Thames! It will not "rust" behind us, the answer is always adequate "hello"! It is not clear what NATO politicians are hoping for, because the memory of the people in Russia cannot be eradicated, we absorbed it with mother's milk and did not forgive or forget anything! Glory to the Russian people, the victorious people, the creator people! Glory to Russia!
  13. +3
    22 June 2015 06: 43
    Eternal memory to all the fallen and not surviving to victory!
  14. +5
    22 June 2015 06: 49
    Mournful date! Great date! Eternal memory and glory to those who first accepted the battle! To everyone who went through this war with faith in victory! To everyone who fought!
    SHAME ON UKRAINE !!!
    The Ukrainian authorities completely ignored the birthday of the famous partisan commander Sidor Kovpak. This was during a rally on the outbreak of World War II, veterans from the committee of partisans and underground workers of the Kiev city organization of veterans said. Sidor Kovpak became one of the most famous commanders of anti-fascist resistance during the Great Patriotic War. He commanded the Putivl partisan detachment, and later - the 1-th Ukrainian partisan division. Major General, twice Hero of the Soviet Union.

    Yes, it is "inconvenient" for the current authorities to remember SUCH HEROES! How "inconvenient" it is to remember the underground workers from Kiev! Kudrya, Okipnaya ... and many others who fought against the Nazis and Bandera. But we - remember! And our memory cannot be erased at all! Forgotten "present", that Batyuk was blind, but led the Kiev underground. And today in Kiev there are the same heroes, whose names we will recognize and whom we will be proud of.
    1. +3
      22 June 2015 07: 49
      Forgotten and Nikolai Strutinsky and many other partisans, underground and scouts. And the memorial plaque of Nikolai Kuznetsov was generally spoiled, only the fascists and Bandera do this.
    2. 0
      22 June 2015 14: 40
      Quote: Egoza
      Mournful date! Great date! Eternal memory and glory to those who first accepted the battle! To everyone who went through this war with faith in victory! To everyone who fought!
      SHAME ON UKRAINE !!!
      The Ukrainian authorities completely ignored the birthday of the famous partisan commander Sidor Kovpak. This was during a rally on the outbreak of World War II, veterans from the committee of partisans and underground workers of the Kiev city organization of veterans said. Sidor Kovpak became one of the most famous commanders of anti-fascist resistance during the Great Patriotic War. He commanded the Putivl partisan detachment, and later - the 1-th Ukrainian partisan division. Major General, twice Hero of the Soviet Union.

      Yes, it is "inconvenient" for the current authorities to remember SUCH HEROES! How "inconvenient" it is to remember the underground workers from Kiev! Kudrya, Okipnaya ... and many others who fought against the Nazis and Bandera. But we - remember! And our memory cannot be erased at all! Forgotten "present", that Batyuk was blind, but led the Kiev underground. And today in Kiev there are the same heroes, whose names we will recognize and whom we will be proud of.

      My grandmother personally saw Kovpak when he raided with his partisan detachment in Polesie. According to her, the German garrison in advance instantly withdrew without a fight, leaving more than a dozen settlements in Kovpaku. It is a pity that then Kovpak returned to Ukraine again.
  15. +4
    22 June 2015 06: 55
    Russia did not give rest to anyone with its resources and territories ... And now this is repeated. The mongrels surrounded us from all sides, and the insulting now overseas owners are trying to bite us. Now is not 1941, and therefore they will immediately receive not only their teeth, but they will not collect a scrap of wool from their filth if they dare to attack Russia. Both of my grandfathers remained in that War, their eternal memory.
  16. +3
    22 June 2015 07: 00
    GLORY TO THE RUSSIAN SOLDIER !!!!
  17. +4
    22 June 2015 07: 05
    Unfortunately, the grandchildren and great-grandchildren of those who killed civilians as part of the Nazi police battalions again near the Russian border and how in the 41st they kill civilians in Donbass with impunity. I would like to believe that, like 70 years ago, the enemy will be defeated, the fascist reptile will be crushed, Victory will be ours, success to you fighters of the DPR and LPR !!!
  18. +1
    22 June 2015 07: 37
    Eternal memory to all the fallen in the GREAT PATRIOTIC WAR! Unfortunately, many politicians are fueling military conflicts in order to achieve their base goals and replenish their immense wallet. The price of all this is ruined human lives with which no one counts.
  19. +1
    22 June 2015 07: 56
    my grandfather found a war in Shepetovka ... how it continues to this day (insanity) - at the railway station there were many trains with equipment, fuel, ammunition and personnel, the trains were set up by wise enemies of the people who are still alive !!! at dawn, only one Fritz bomber, unaccompanied by guards, dropped one powerful bomb and many lighters — the result: everything burned and exploded! blat, dumbness, theft and party-wise cadres ... does not remind of anything?
  20. +6
    22 June 2015 08: 12
    On the video - a message from YouTube.



    http://nyka-huldra.livejournal.com/10892086.html
    1. +5
      22 June 2015 08: 37
      Thanks for the video ... The lump in my throat is straight! hi
      1. 0
        22 June 2015 08: 48
        Quote: MIKHAN
        . A lump in the throat is straight

        I was killed by a YouTube comment about the insult. angry
    2. Erg
      +1
      22 June 2015 09: 11
      Everything is fine. Youtube fascists warns wassat
  21. +1
    22 June 2015 08: 33
    Unfortunately, the West began to forget the lessons of history. Actively rewrite the results of the war, trying to steal the VICTORY from our people.
  22. +3
    22 June 2015 08: 37
    Yes, the date is truly significant for our country. It was then that our country, and all the peoples living in it, had to endure the bloody test of the right to live, to exist both on our land and in history in principle. Unfortunately, the conclusions obtained during this test had to be refreshed again after the 90's devastation. And of course I want to be mistaken, but I think that now we are approaching the next test for the right to exist.
  23. +2
    22 June 2015 08: 39
    A blessed memory to everyone who died in that war. We won the war, which the whole world lost.
  24. +1
    22 June 2015 08: 45
    We are proud! Love! The feat of ancestors will be given to sons and grandchildren!
    1. +3
      22 June 2015 12: 56
      Eternal memory to all who fell in the fight against fascism in a bloody and terrible war. But now the "brown plague" is again coming to our "home", but not from the territory of Germany but from the Baltic states and Ukraine and the United States and Israel "lead" them, and again bombs are falling on our land, and again they stood in the way of this infection - we.
      And whatever happens, one must always remember -
      Our cause is just, the enemy will be defeated, victory will be ours.
  25. The Trick-22
    0
    22 June 2015 08: 49
    All human grief and pain is embedded in the speech of Yuri Levitan, which has become a landmark, about the attack of Nazi Germany on the Soviet Union:
    ...
    The enemy will be defeated! Victory will be ours!


    What sorrow, author? Solemnly measured speech with a confident ending - The enemy will be defeated! What are these snot about pain? Did he grieve in advance?
  26. +2
    22 June 2015 08: 49
    To the Living Veterans of the Great Patriotic War, Glory !!! To the lost and dead Heroes, Bright Memory!
  27. +5
    22 June 2015 08: 53
    “That is the longest day of the year ...” Konstantin Simonov
    That longest day of the year
    With its cloudless weather
    We were given a common misfortune
    At all, for all four years.
    She pressed such a trail
    And so many people laid down,
    What is twenty years and thirty years
    Living does not believe that they are alive.
    And to the dead, straightening a ticket,
    Someone close
    And time adds to the lists
    Someone else who isn’t ...
    And puts
    puts
    obelisks.
  28. +8
    22 June 2015 08: 59
    My father lived with his family in Zhibinka on June 22, 1941 (this is a settlement 15 km from Brest, where in the summer, as they used to say - maneuvers, they took out almost the entire garrison of the Brest Fortress. They had weapons, guns, even tanks, but the shells for them and the cartridges remained in the Fortress. Therefore, it was not difficult for the Nazis to disperse the summer field camps of the fortress garrison and without stopping to go further inland. Father, he was 13 years old, recalled how the U-87 with a howl rushed to the peak to refugee columns and retreating units of the Red Army, he and his mother in refugee columns managed to get to Minsk only, until Gott and Guderian closed their sinister ticks east of Minsk, so the occupation began for him, and the next year he got into a 14-year-old boy in the detachment to the partisans, where he fought with adults before July 3, 1944 in the brigade of Pyotr Ivanovich Masherov, received a medal for this to the partisan of the Great Patriotic War of the 1st degree, participated in Amenit partisan parade on July 17 in the liberated Minsk (he is even on the newsreel). Then there was the army and post-war Life in Belarus, where the reunited family returned after the Victory.
    I was still a kid at the age of 11 in 1964, the first time I got to the Brest Fortress. I was struck by what remained of the magnificent structure, and when I visited the Museum, I heard about the exploits of the Heroes of the Fortress, which the country learned about thanks to Sergey Sergeyevich Smirnov. I crawled through the ruins, stood in the ruined church (regimental club), looked at the ruined barracks and was proud to be standing at the famous Kholm Gate, which were the first to meet the war on the border. then overwhelmed me feelings I carried through my whole life and even now typing this text, I remember those childhood experiences. I was proud that I, too, was Russian, that these famous and unknown soldiers of the great Red Army perished for my homeland.
    I am a fan of this edition. I always read with interest not only editorial material, but also especially comments on them. There are a lot of decent, intelligent, educated people who respond with nerve and knowledge of the issue ...
    Dear, let’s not succumb to the vileness and insults that sometimes pour on us, which are replete with many publications addressed to our Great Motherland - Russia. let us in this mournful country for thinking people and the following days. we will remember that we are the heirs of those Heroes, that we are the children of those who restored and entrusted us with this Great Country. It depends on us now who will live further in it, because we have children, grandchildren and great-grandchildren. This is who we must defend what we inherited from our fathers and grandfathers: A great country that defeated world fascism, and a Great Victory !!!
  29. +2
    22 June 2015 09: 06
    Respect! Remember! Mourn A low bow for courage and stamina!
  30. +3
    22 June 2015 09: 46
    The adversaries will not erase the memory of our Great Past. She will live for centuries and be transmitted at the gene level for generations. Remember, mourn. The photo in the article is symbolic - Heroes' Square in the city of Smolensk. To the left of the fortress wall is the grave of Hero of the Soviet Union Sergeant Egorov Mikhail Alekseevich, together with Junior Sergeant M.V. Kantaria under the direction of Lieutenant A.P. Berest, hoisting the Banner of Victory on the roof of the defeated German Reichstag on the morning of May 1, 1945.
  31. 0
    22 June 2015 10: 19
    "... only the grief of the Mother of God for Russia is mine ..."
  32. +1
    22 June 2015 10: 27
    Bulat Okudzhava

    Ah war, what did you do, mean-spirited:
    our yards have become quiet
    our boys raised their heads -
    they have matured for the time being,
    on the doorstep barely loomed
    and they left, after the soldier - the soldier ...
    Goodbye boys! Boys
    try to go back.
    No, don't you hide, be tall
    spare no bullets or grenades
    and do not spare yourself, and yet
    try to go back.

    Ah, the war, what are you, mean, did:
    instead of weddings - separation and smoke,
    our girls dresses are white
    gave to their sisters.
    Boots - well, where do you get from them?
    Yes, green wings epaulets ...
    You spit on gossip girls.
    We will settle scores with them later.
    Let the chatter, that you do not believe in anything,
    that you go at random ...
    Goodbye, girls! Girls,
    try to go back.

    Eternal memory of those who defended their homeland!
  33. +3
    22 June 2015 10: 50
    Eternal and blessed memory of those who died in that terrible war. WWII veterans respect, honor and attention in the difficult current time.
  34. +2
    22 June 2015 11: 00
    Blessed memory of the fallen for their homeland. My grandfather folded his head in the battle of Smolensk 1941.
  35. +1
    22 June 2015 11: 41
    Fritz crap, the Japanese crap, the French crap, the Poles crap, the Swedes crap and Pin # wasps crap!
    Eternal memory to the wars that have turned their heads defending our Motherland!
  36. 0
    22 June 2015 11: 42
    Eternal memory and glory to those who died in that war ...
  37. +1
    22 June 2015 12: 17
    Let's remember !!!! Mourn June 22 ... And rejoice, celebrate May 9!
    And everything needs to be done so that from us, who still remember and know, to transfer this memory and knowledge to our children and grandchildren. To remember !!!!
    Look for your relatives at the memorial. There the data is updated. I even got goosebumps when I found my great-grandfather and cousins. There is still someone to look for. Look for data on podvignaroda.mil.ru. Also constantly adding data.
    Let's REMEMBER !!! AND THE VICTORY WILL BE AFTER US !!!!!!
    These sneaky eureka and drafts still can not calm down ....
  38. Roshchin
    +2
    22 June 2015 12: 17
    The Great Patriotic War is also a very serious history lesson, which was given to the country at a great price, and therefore a lesson that none of us can forget.

    Unfortunately, this lesson of history was not enough learned and poorly learned by us. Enemies in 50 years at the hands of traitors, with the indifference of the majority of the people, achieved much of what they could not in 1941. The country that defeated the aggressor was destroyed, the economy was destroyed, ethnic and territorial conflicts arose. And as an apotheosis - part of the USSR, Ukraine became a hostile state near the borders of Russia.
    What a lesson and how we can learn it in our time will show the future. History teaches us that it teaches nothing. Alas.
    1. The Trick-22
      0
      22 June 2015 17: 34
      Quote: Grove
      Unfortunately, this lesson of history was not enough learned and poorly learned by us. Enemies in 50 years at the hands of traitors with the indifference of the majority of the people achieved a lot of what they could not in 1941

      Yes, do not bother you all in a heap, and the 41st, and 91st, and subsequent years.
      Which of the lessons of 1941 is applicable to the collapse of the Union? Anti-Soviet and subversive element in the 91st were not actively detected?
      1. Roshchin
        +1
        22 June 2015 17: 52
        The main lesson of the 41st was that at the helm of the country were state people who linked their fate with the USSR. Children of prominent state. figures of that time were at the front. No need to distort the obvious. The memory of the feat of the people is sacred.
        The article talks about the lessons of history. And lessons must be learned.
  39. +1
    22 June 2015 12: 23
    For all my fifty kopecks this day has never passed for me just like that.
    Always frost on the skin.
    ...
    I read the comments - in general, the whole "goose bumps" were covered.
    Two grandfathers and an uncle fought. The war passed, they survived. Uncle so in general, 18-year-old near Stalingrad, captivity in the same place, liberation after "Uranus". Dnieper, Prague, and until 1947 at mine clearance near Leningrad.
    ...
    Thanks, girls and guys for MEMORY.
    As long as we remember - they won’t defeat them.
  40. -3
    22 June 2015 12: 50
    The main fault of the leadership of the USSR and Stalin personally is that they did not prepare the army and the country for a surprise strike. Quite the opposite - experienced commanders were exterminated or removed in the repressions. It came to such cases when battalion commanders were appointed commanders, because all senior command personnel were repressed. Aviation of the first echelon was located near the border, without dispersal, without elementary camouflage. Army supply depots were located too close to the new border. They all became trophies of Germany. Fortifications on the old border were destroyed almost everywhere without building the same ones on the new one. Measures were not prepared for the uninterrupted supply of army, especially tank, units with ammunition and fuel. Even in new tanks (T-34 and KV), the USSR was superior to Germany, but finding themselves without supplies, about 3000 Soviet tanks became German trophies. A week before the start of the war, radio stations were removed from all new fighters. I'm not talking about training. Any initiatives of commanders to increase combat readiness in case of a surprise attack were harshly suppressed. For example, for some reason, the order to enter the war did not reach the command of the air forces of the Baltic region in time. For almost a week of the war, despite the German bombing raids, this command did not use aviation, strictly observing the instructions - "do not respond to provocations ..." And this is only a small part of the consequences of not being prepared for a surprise attack. A week before the start of the war, Stalin still called Hitler “the best friend of the USSR” ... His reaction in the first hours of the war: “At 4:30 in the morning, S.K. Tymoshenko arrived at the Kremlin. All the summoned members of the Politburo were already assembled. The People's Commissar and I were invited to the office. Stalin was pale and sat at the table, holding a pipe not full of tobacco in his hands.
    We reported the situation. I.V. Stalin said perplexedly:
    - Is this a provocation of German generals?
    - The Germans bomb our cities in Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic states. What a provocation ... - S.K. Tymoshenko.
    “If you need to organize a provocation,” said I.V. Stalin, the German generals also bombed their cities ... - And, having thought a little, he continued: - Hitler probably does not know about this.
    “We must urgently call the German embassy,” he turned to V.M. Molotov ”- G.K. Zhukov.
    1. -1
      22 June 2015 14: 34
      Quote: Edvid
      The main fault of the leadership of the USSR and Stalin personally is that they did not prepare the army and the country for a surprise strike. Quite the opposite - experienced commanders were exterminated or removed in the repressions. It came to such cases when battalion commanders were appointed commanders, because all senior command personnel were repressed. Aviation of the first echelon was located near the border, without dispersal, without elementary camouflage. Army supply depots were located too close to the new border. They all became trophies of Germany. Fortifications on the old border were destroyed almost everywhere without building the same ones on the new one. Measures were not prepared for the uninterrupted supply of army, especially tank, units with ammunition and fuel. Even in new tanks (T-34 and KV), the USSR was superior to Germany, but finding themselves without supplies, about 3000 Soviet tanks became German trophies. A week before the start of the war, radio stations were removed from all new fighters. I'm not talking about training. Any initiatives of commanders to increase combat readiness in case of a surprise attack were harshly suppressed. For example, for some reason, the order to enter the war did not reach the command of the air forces of the Baltic region in time. For almost a week of the war, despite the German bombing raids, this command did not use aviation, strictly observing the instructions - "do not respond to provocations ..." And this is only a small part of the consequences of not being prepared for a surprise attack. A week before the start of the war, Stalin still called Hitler “the best friend of the USSR” ... His reaction in the first hours of the war: “At 4:30 in the morning, S.K. Tymoshenko arrived at the Kremlin. All the summoned members of the Politburo were already assembled. The People's Commissar and I were invited to the office. Stalin was pale and sat at the table, holding a pipe not full of tobacco in his hands.
      We reported the situation. I.V. Stalin said perplexedly:
      - Is this a provocation of German generals?
      - The Germans bomb our cities in Ukraine, Belarus and the Baltic states. What a provocation ... - S.K. Tymoshenko.
      “If you need to organize a provocation,” said I.V. Stalin, the German generals also bombed their cities ... - And, having thought a little, he continued: - Hitler probably does not know about this.
      “We must urgently call the German embassy,” he turned to V.M. Molotov ”- G.K. Zhukov.

      Unfortunately this is a fact.
    2. Ulan
      +4
      22 June 2015 16: 29
      No need to repeat the gossip of Mr. Rezun. Nobody destroyed the fortified areas on the old border. They were partially mothballed, partially disarmed. But nobody blew them up. Read the documents. Moreover, even a cattle plan to complete part of the URov. Unfortunately unfulfilled due to lack of funds.
      On June 22, 1941, the Red Army included more than 400 thousand commanders. Up to 16 thousand commanders were subjected to repressions for various political reasons.
      After a second review of cases, 8 thousand were acquitted and returned to the army with their former ranks. Rokossovsky as an example. So, the percentage calculation is 8 thousand to 400 thousand. Could this affect the combat effectiveness?
      The battalions were put into the divisions not because of repressions, but because the number of newly formed units increased sharply. You will find the numbers yourself. Hence the lack of command personnel for new formations, accelerated graduation from schools, and the call of commanders from the reserve.
      The deployment of aviation, warehouses, camouflage, and the supply of troops is not the work of Comrade Stalin personally, but of Zhukov’s comrades as Commander-in-Chief of the General Staff, Tymoshenko, as People’s Commissar of Defense, heads of departments and military branches and commanders of districts and their deputies.
      This is their direct fault, not Stalin and Molotov.
      Pribvo began to bring troops on alert as early as June 19th. Orders for the district are published. By the way, aviation of the PribVO and Odessa districts was the least affected.
      And read Zhukov, but do not take everything for granted. For example, Zhukov claimed that he was removed from the post of chief of the General Staff for the proposal to surrender Kiev.
      In fact, on that day he writes about Kotior, Zhukov was not at all in Stalin’s office in the Kremlin.
      The proposal to surrender Kiev was made by Marshal Budyonny, who commanded the South-Western direction. For which he was removed. But Zhukov was removed just because he, as the chief of the General Staff at the beginning of the war, was not up to par and sent to a secondary front.
      The merits of Georgy Konstantinovich are great and he rightfully bears the name of Marshal of Victory, but he had enough punctures in the initial stage of the war and in the pre-war period.
  41. +1
    22 June 2015 12: 53
    Remembering June 22, 1941, I would like to recall those who forged a victory in the rear. Here is information on the construction of the Gorky defense line:
    On October 16, 1941, German troops broke through the front near Vyazma, essentially opening the way to Moscow, and only the desperate resistance of the defenders of the Soviet capital did not allow the Nazis to seize it. The Gorky Regional Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks and the Oblast Executive Committee adopted a resolution on the beginning of intensive construction of defensive structures around Gorky. Then, a defense committee was created in Gorky, headed by Mikhail Ivanovich Rodionov, first secretary of the regional and city party committees. After the leadership of the country was informed about these measures, on October 31, the State Defense Committee of the country supported the actions of the Gorkovites with a decree and ordered the construction of the Oka defensive line to be completed by December 25.
    The local authorities were ordered to “ensure the mobilization of the population for the construction of field fortifications with the appropriate tools, with a supply of food for urban residents - for 5 days, rural - for 7 days. Clothing should be appropriate for the season ... "
    Even during the preparation of the war with the USSR, the Wehrmacht command planned to capture Gorky after the capture of Moscow. But in mid-October 1941, it became clear that the goals set by the Barbarossa plan would not be achieved within the allotted time. The fourth tank group, which was supposed to bypass Moscow, block it along the Vladimir-Suzdal line, was stuck in the Kaluga direction. Near Tula sat the second tank group of General Guderian, but after all, according to German plans, it should have been in Arzamas on October 10, and in Gorky on October 15. But Hitler did not give up the blow to Gorky, only postponed it for another time, there was an option - the end of May 1942.
    On the territory of the Gorky Region, the construction of a ring fortified defense line began, primarily on the distant approaches to the city of Gorky, at a distance of 70-80 km from it. The defensive ditches formed an almost continuous broken line connecting Katunka, Purekh, Chistoye, Ilyino station, the left bank of the Klyazma, Gorbatov, Pavlovo, Zaplatino, Oranki, Kudrino, Staroselye, Tatinets. In parallel to the right bank of the Volga, anti-tank ditches were built from Gorodets to Vasilsursk. And along the Oka, they stretched to Mordovshchikov (now Navashino) and further to Shimorsky (this is Vyksa district).

    The result was an impassable anti-tank line with powerful anti-fire protection. In two months, 12 million cubic meters of land were taken out, about 100000 cubic meters of stone, 300000 cubic meters of timber were harvested, more than 350 thousand people participated in the construction, including 150 thousand Gorky residents.

    By January 1, 1942, the construction of defensive structures was completed. On January 14, they were adopted by a special commission. 1134 kilometers - this was the total length of the anti-tank trenches. At the defensive lines 1116 bunkers and bunkers, 1026 dugouts, 114 command posts were erected. Tank hazardous areas were blocked off with gouges, iron "hedgehogs" and blockages.

    link to the entire article: http: //www.zem-nn.ru/old/gaz/10_02/12.html
    hi
  42. 0
    22 June 2015 13: 17
    I envy that generation, 10s from 100-n thousand survived!
    Campaign history repeats itself!
  43. Ulan
    +1
    22 June 2015 16: 34
    Eternal salute to the heroes, those who were the first to meet the terrible blow of the enemy and broke the aggressor's plan of lightning war "Barbarossa", thereby predetermining the Victory. Most of them did not live to see Victory, but their feat is forever inscribed in history.
    Almost everyone fought in my sepmery. Father, left as a volunteer, fought near Moscow, near Rzhev, started as a platoon commander, graduated in the 43rd company, was commissioned after two serious injuries and six months of treatment in a Tashkent hospital. Mom in the army, ended the war in Poznan. The maternal grandfather, the commander of the partisan detachment, was seriously injured, taken by plane to the mainland, where he died in the hospital. The maternal uncle was half dead in the 42nd, two uncles father’s line, one came back without a hand, the second went through the whole war.
  44. 0
    22 June 2015 17: 55
    What does Nazism lead to?
  45. -2
    22 June 2015 19: 16
    The people need help - I don’t have so much deep knowledge to correctly answer this provocative treatise (I will be very grateful for the help):
    Today is the 74th anniversary of the start of World War II. But the war began almost two years earlier.
    Germany entered World War II on September 1, 1939; USSR-September 17, 1939. From this day until June 22, 1941, the USSR acted as an ally of Nazi Germany.
    Relations between Germany and the USSR were regulated by three treaties of 1939:
    - German-Soviet trade agreement, signed on August 19, 1939;
    - The Non-aggression Treaty between Germany and the Soviet Union (Molotov-Ribbintrop Pact), signed on August 23, 1939;
    - The Treaty of Friendship and the Border between the USSR and Germany, signed on September 28, 1939.
    The German-Soviet trade agreement is not deservedly forgotten, talking about the eve of the Great Patriotic War.
    The essence of the trade agreement concluded on August 19 was as follows:
    1. According to the agreement, Germany provided the Soviet Union a commodity loan in the amount of 200 million reich marks. Financing was provided by the German Golddiskontbank (Golddiskontbank). The loan was 100% guaranteed by the German government and implied an interest rate of 5%, and the secret agreement assumed that the rate would be reduced to 4,5% - 0,5% went to the USSR special account in Berlin.
    2. The loan was to be used to finance Soviet orders in Germany for the supply of machine tools, equipment, various goods, and weapons. Moreover, the latter should have been delivered in smaller volumes than other supply items.
    3. The loan was repaid by the USSR through the supply of raw materials, the amount and volume of which should be agreed upon by concluding an additional agreement between the two Governments. The annual interest on the sums for deliveries of Soviet goods must be accumulated in a special account of the USSR in Berlin. The full repayment dates for this loan were in early 1946.

    Germany’s needs for strategic raw materials and food were not fully covered by internal and occupational resources, and supplies from the USSR became a significant help.
    Germany's dependence on the foreign food market averaged 20%; in some categories (for example, in feed and grain) it was even more significant, and in fats even exceeded 40%. The wartime food supply plan stipulated that meat consumption would be 68% and fat consumption 57% of peacetime consumption.
    For industrial raw materials, Germany's dependence on imports was approximately 33%. In the metallurgical industry, the ratio of domestic ore consumption to consumption of imported ore was expressed in a ratio of 1: 3. For a number of non-ferrous metals, dependence on foreign countries was also extremely large; for example, for lead it was 50%, for copper - 70%, for tin - 90%, for aluminum (bauxite) - 99%. The dependence on mineral oils (65%), rubber (over 85%) and raw materials for the textile industry (about 70%) was also very significant. According to the assessment of the military-industrial headquarters, the metal reserves should have been sufficient for the most of 9-12 months, rubber - for 5-6 months of the war.
    And if the USSR could not provide Germany with industrial and agricultural raw materials for military needs in 1940-1941, the transit deliveries of these raw materials through the territory of the USSR were of great importance for restoring the combat capability of the German army after military companies 1939-1940 and accumulating the necessary raw materials for military company against the USSR.
    The last train with Soviet grain crossed the bridge over the Western Bug to Terespol on June 22, 1 hour 15 minutes before the German attack on the USSR.
    1. The Trick-22
      0
      22 June 2015 21: 40
      Quote: demo_mag
      Today is the 74th anniversary of the start of World War II. But the war began almost two years earlier.
      Germany entered World War II on September 1, 1939; USSR-September 17th, 1939.

      Frankly, I do not understand those who consider the Polish and Baltic campaigns and the Winter War outside the context of the Second World War, but as secondary peripheral interlovers who have nothing to do with it. On June 22, the enemy crossed precisely new the border announced by the pacts on the border between Germany and the USSR.
      1. 0
        22 June 2015 22: 41
        I didn’t understand a little, I’m leaving a thought?
        If this is the answer to what I have laid out, then I personally think that there was a substitution of concepts, namely the Great Patriotic War they want to replace the Second World War, but unfortunately there is no time to sort everything out ...
        on this and hoped for the help of knowledgeable people.
        1. Ulan
          +2
          23 June 2015 10: 23
          The answer is simple. A non-aggression treaty, a trade treaty, and a demarcation treaty are not military alliance agreements. If anyone does not believe, let him present from these agreements clauses where it is written about the military alliance and the plan of joint military operations.
          That is, from the very beginning, the wrong message - "actually was an ally", leads to incorrect subsequent conclusions and misinterpretation of documents and facts. That is, there is a scam ... substitution.
          For lack of a treaty of military alliance between Germany and the USSR, peace treaties are slipped as treaties of alliance.
          Germany at that time traded with almost the whole world, but this does not mean, for example, that Sweden or the United States were their allies.
          By the way, the fallacy is that the Second World War began on September 1, 1939. It’s just considered so. In fact, it began on September 3rd, when France and England entered it with their colonies. Before this, the German-Polish war lasted 2 days.
          1. 0
            23 June 2015 17: 43
            Ltd. thank. a sound answer (or even the minuses received are of little use).
            Thanks again.
  46. +1
    22 June 2015 22: 19
    [quote = tomket] [quote = wanderer_032] (one Brest is worth what). [/ quote]
    And how did the assault on Brest affect the overall pace of advancement of Army Group Center? The answer is no, everything went as planned. Moving units go forward, infantry units are cleaning the cauldrons. As it was near Brest. [quote = wanderer_032
    Are you guys okay? Have you read the headline? June 22 is a day of remembrance! About a dozen people honored their memory and all ....
    The orchestra plays the carcasses - experts appear on the arena! And off we go: regiments, divisions, corps, fronts, "hellishstalinosoton" all interrupt each other, etc. Like Bushkov's "the brave columnist Vanyatka stole canned meat from the warehouse and regularly denounced Stalin for his inability to plan strategic operations"
    Phew, "horses, people mixed up in a heap ..." Boo-boo-boo "the left support roller of the KV tank was overheating and this was Stalin's fault, the Supreme's blatant carelessness", boo-boo-boo. All the feats of the fighters in this direction are bullshit because Corporal Pumpelshaise did not see these feats in his memoirs! Everyone knows that the memoirs of the columnist Pumpelshaise are an invaluable storehouse of crystal truth and logic like ".... women, children and old people ran out of the burning huts on the edge of the village and we immediately mowed them down with machine guns. Damned commissars! The civilian population was not taken out in time!"
    And what about the quote about the Brest Fortress, which, in your opinion, is pointless to defend the question: why did the Germans attack it so stubbornly, such an unnecessary fortress ?! How is Goth there? "Our movement slowed down, the euphoria of the first successes passed. More and more often we met resistance: an infantryman who jumped out from behind a hut with a bunch of grenades, a lone anti-tank gun, two machine gunners" Enemies wrote about our ancestors with great respect than descendants. It did not occur to me that the Germans did not take Moscow because they did not have enough of those battalions that were killed in Brest
    fortresses?
  47. alt
    0
    22 June 2015 22: 57
    Quote: Trick-22
    Frankly, I do not understand those who consider the Polish and Baltic campaigns and the Winter War outside the context of the Second World War, but as secondary peripheral interlovers who have nothing to do with it. On June 22, the enemy crossed precisely the new border, announced by pacts on the border between Germany and the USSR.


    The Munich Treaty, drawn up on September 29 and signed at 30 a.m. on September 1938, XNUMX

    On September 29, 1938, the heads of government of Great Britain, France, Germany and Italy (Chamberlain, Daladier, Hitler, Mussolini, respectively) gathered in Hitler’s Munich residence “Führerbau”. During the two-day negotiations, they decided the fate of Czechoslovakia, whose representatives were invited only to “hear the verdict.” Czechoslovakia “recommended” (read - forced) to transfer to Germany the Sudetenland (the place where the Sudeten Germans were compactly resident) with all the property on its territory, including weapons and equipment of fortified areas. In the event of failure, France, which had an agreement with Czechoslovakia to protect it from German aggression, relieved itself of all responsibility for the consequences.
    In accordance with the Munich Treaty, on October 1, 1938, German troops entered the Sudetenland.
    Prague. The Ambassador of Poland handed over the mid-ultimatum of the Polish government with a demand to transfer the Teszy region to Poland. In the evening, Polish troops entered the Tieszyn region.
    Germany acquired territory favorable for an attack on Poland (which in 1938 still imagined itself to be an ally of Germany and, together with it, joyfully divided Czechoslovakia)
  48. +1
    23 June 2015 05: 24
    Sergey Sall: Perspectives of Earth Civilization.
  49. Wii
    0
    23 June 2015 22: 19
    And so in Ukraine they met the Nazis .....
  50. alt
    +1
    23 June 2015 22: 53
    War song