Military Reform Platforms

31


"God forbid you live in an era of change." This famous phrase is attributed to Confucius or interpreted as the ancient Chinese wisdom in general. Naturally, the change is different, the difference is in whether the change is for better or worse. Recently I had a chance to read one comment on the “Military Review”, the meaning of which boiled down to the fact that, as the author put it, “thanks to the damned Taburetkin, Makarov, Popovkin (God rest his soul) that in due time placed before the military industrial complex the requirement and ultimatum to create new samples tracked and wheeled armored vehicles ".

Indeed, the reforms significantly affected our army, most of the “glorious deeds” of these reformers were mentioned many times, much had to be redone after that, but such a phenomenon as a single platform also began to be realized with them, and this somehow remained without special attention. So is this really one of the few that they donated to our army as a blessing? Let's try to figure out the topic is interesting, and, one might say, rare in discussions.

It is now known that four basic platforms are being developed for the ground forces of the Russian Federation, on the basis of which machines of different types should be created. Firstly, it is a heavy Armata tracked platform (weight category up to 65 tons), on the basis of which, in addition to tank T-14, a heavy infantry fighting vehicle has been created and other combat and auxiliary vehicles should appear. Secondly, it is the Kurganets-25 medium tracked platform (25 tons), on the basis of which a family of vehicles should also be built. Initially, it was supposed to divide such equipment into heavy and medium teams, respectively. Closing the list are two wheeled platforms - the average Boomerang in the same 25-ton category and the light one in the weight category up to 10 tons (presumably the Tiger).

Military Reform Platforms


It was stated that Russia was the first in the world to switch to unified combat platforms in the above-mentioned main categories of land vehicles.
As explained, uniform platforms should simplify, reduce the cost of production and maintenance of equipment, as well as facilitate the creation of machines for different purposes due to the modular design.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union, our armed forces inherited a huge fleet of tracked and wheeled armored vehicles, which turned into a headache for reformers. The cumbersome and “disconnected” legacy, as it was represented, did not fit into the new requirements of a compact army, with the seeming impossibility of a global war. It was said that the NATO partners are disarming, cutting down the army, and we still have thousands and thousands of useless armored vehicles.

Admittedly, the ideally coveted concept of a single platform has been raised by engineers for a long time. However, what is interesting is that radically implement it in military equipment not in the US or NATO, not during the power of the Soviet Union, but in the new Russia, after the pogrom of industry, science, the breakdown of cooperative ties, extensive reductions in the army, in this very era of change and grand reforms.

Why did the reformers need a fundamentally new technique, why did everything created earlier and for the future appear to be instantly obsolete?

When the Russian Ministry of Defense suspended the purchase of armored vehicles for five years (reported by the RIA "News"), The then chief of the General Staff of the Armed Forces of Russia Nikolai Makarov said that the military took this time to designers to develop new types of military equipment. “We have a difficult situation with ground forces. We stopped with purchases of armored vehicles, ”explained Makarov.



What was this “difficult situation”? Why did defense officials suddenly hated everything domestic, read the Soviet one? In 2011, the technical backwardness of the Russian military equipment was repeatedly declared. In particular, the commander-in-chief of the land forces, Alexander Postnikov, said then: “Those samples weaponswhich are produced by industry, including armored weapons, artillery and small arms, in their parameters do not correspond to the patterns of NATO and even China. ” Makarov himself at the time also told that some samples of Russian weapons and military equipment were inferior in their tactical and technical characteristics to the most successful foreign counterparts. The already mentioned commander-in-chief of the land forces of Russia, General Alexander Postnikov, spoke very dismissively of the combat qualities of the main Russian battle tank T-90, which, in his words, “is in fact the 17 version of the Soviet T-72, produced from 1973 onwards. Postnikov also owns that the defense industry has made its products so unprofitable and terribly expensive (Uralvagonzavod offered T-90 for 118 million rubles apiece). His famous gem: “It’s easier for us to buy three Leopards for the same money (Leopard-2 in the world market cost about 6 million dollars, that is, then a little more than 170 million rubles).

There were flaws in everything “Soviet”, for example, our paratroopers liked the BMD-4М, but the military department didn’t need it, then they refused to buy it, the marines liked the BMP-3F, but, again, the officials didn’t like it. The logical evolution of the evolution of wheeled armored personnel carriers, the BTR-90, was rejected because it lacked protection against explosions on land mines and there was no landing through the rear doors. And it was not the ones for whom the equipment was intended to decide, but the mediators, defense buyers, who had their own idea of ​​weapons as a product, the army was actually excommunicated from the right to choose and order. To enhance the effect of the unsuitability of domestic technology, in contrast, it was said about the advantages of a foreign one, the purchases of which, quite seriously, could acquire a global character, become the basic basis.

At that time, the head of armaments, Deputy Minister of Defense Vladimir Popovkin spoke at a round table devoted specifically to the issues of the advisability of purchasing weapons abroad. From his words it followed that the issue had been resolved. The Russian army will be equipped, including with imported weapons. According to the head of armaments, the Ministry of Defense is closing a number of programs that were considered only yesterday as very promising domestic developments. Instead, as Popovkin said at the time, there is another simple way out - to purchase similar equipment abroad. Moreover, you need to start right away, both large and small, with a landing ship of the Mistral type and sniper rifles, you can buy Israeli Drones, Italian armored vehicles "Iveco" "Lynx" and the German light armor of the company "Rheinmetall". They were easily ready to spend billions in this, without demanding from foreign manufacturers either price cuts or wide unification. It was Vladimir Popovkin who announced in 2010 the termination of funding for the development of the practically finished T-95 tank (the tank passed state tests with a list of individual comments) and the closure of the project. According to him, the design of the vehicle is "morally obsolete", and the tank was called too expensive and difficult for conscripts to master.



From the moment when the intrigue of the T-95 tank was replaced by the news about Armat, it became known about the concept of the “platform” of military equipment, to the development of which the military department, it must be assumed, and allotted five years.

So, for the first time in the world and only here - a single platform. Up to this point, the world of such a large-scale phenomenon in military affairs did not know, and many have associated the word “platform” with another.



In technology, the first appearances of the concept of “platform” are attributed to IBM, their principle of “open architecture” made it possible to popularize the product, to make the IBM PC one of the main computer platforms. Automobile corporations have used the platform as an opportunity to increase sales, diversifying the model range on the developed chassis. In both cases, these are marketing moves, where profit came first. If, according to the generally accepted opinion, the platform of the car is its lower part, which includes the power elements, the suspension and its attachment points, that is, at present, the interpretation of the concept “platform of the car” is close enough to the interpretation of the concept “frame chassis”, which then a “platform” for our reformers?

In the “backward” USSR, on the basis of T-72, a wide variety of combat vehicles were produced long ago: the MTU-72 bridge laying machine, the TOC-1 “Buratino” flame-throwing system, the IMR-3М engineering machine, the Berloga radiation and chemical reconnaissance vehicle, the repair and evacuation machine BREM-1, military demining machine BMR-3M, BMO-T fire fighting vehicle, a tank support fighting vehicle (BMPT), 152 mm SAU Msta-S was created.

A successful and well-developed base was used in other countries of the former Warsaw Pact, and not only, for example, in South Africa, the ZA-72 self-propelled anti-aircraft gun was created on the T-35 chassis, but by the French company GIAT 155 mm SAU.

On the basis of BMD created "Nona", "Sprut", "Shell". The equipment was also produced on the basis of other types, for example, on the successful MT-LB chassis. Nothing prevented the subsequent use of the T-95 base, be it adopted. Here, the way to create a vehicle on the basis of the existing one does not fundamentally differ from the options that are now being presented as platforms. Let's try to deal with these new "platforms".

Much has been said about the unification of new platforms. What is this expressed? Perhaps they were completely unified, if not with the available technology, then between the platforms themselves? No, the whole unification of new platforms implies this unification within its weight segment. Thus, the entire model range based on Armat will be unified mainly according to the Armat platform, the same can be said about medium and light platforms. Here, all innovation except in the novelty of the technology itself.

The allegations that the Soviet technology did not have wide unification and was flawed on this issue before the new platforms, to put it mildly, is very controversial. Unification has always been given importance in the Soviet Union. By the Soviet principle, now the same BMD-4М is unified with the BMP-3, as, respectively, and all the equipment based on them. NATO countries and the United States in particular did not and did not do more, it is unlikely the Americans created the whole family of wheeled combat vehicles "Stryker" and adopting the unified family of FMTV trucks (Family of Medium Tactical Vehicles) somehow distinguished themselves in this. Moreover, it should be noted that in the case of the Stryker it was not possible to fully realize this, their combat armored fire support vehicle with an 105-mm tank gun on the Stryker chassis turned out to be extremely weighted and capricious.

Such statements that, for example, our three infantry fighting vehicles (BMP-1, BMP-2, BMP-3) were on two structurally different chassis, quite natural for technical evolution, the same can be said about BMD or other equipment. Having a chassis once created for all times and occasions can be an economical, but very dubious decision. Unification is designed to reduce the cost of production, improve maintainability, but unification is not an end in itself at the expense of combat qualities and capabilities. A previously assigned “platform”, and not chosen during the operation, may not only reduce the cost of production, but also make the entire range of equipment unsuccessful on its base, which did not meet expectations.

Further, a lot is said about the "modularity" of new platforms. What is their modularity has a revolutionary difference? Combat modules have long been created and their appearance is not related to new understanding of platforms, for example, such as Berehok and Bakhcha for infantry fighting vehicles and armored personnel carriers or armored vehicles, Tagilsky Proryv and Omsk Burlak, designed to significantly increase the power and protection of T tanks -80 and T-72 / T-90. Various combat modules have long been used throughout the world.



Transformation of the engine from the stern to the bow location? It is also not a discovery, nor is it a fact that this is such an urgent need. On the basis of the Soviet T-64 (of which we had reserves), in Kharkov, they received a heavy infantry fighting vehicle by moving the engine in the tank hull. The Germans did this before on the Leopard chassis, creating the Marder BMP.



Finally, the most important thing for lean reformers. Savings issues. Let's look at profitability. As already mentioned, General Makarov set aside “eternity”, for five years, to create a fundamentally new technology, and it appeared, though not yet adopted, and even not having passed the entire test cycle. From the powerful T-95 tank with the 152-mm gun they refused, but according to Vladimir Putin, 64 of a billion rubles was invested only in the development of "Armata", OKRy and R & D, and the T-14 tank itself (already with the 125-mm gun) was estimated in 400 million apiece. We spent almost five more years to roll out the undecided T-14 of the Armata platform to the Victory Parade.

At the same time, it is proposed to make other equipment on this expensive chassis. How economically similar, if the same “Coalition” self-propelled guns, which do not need powerful armor, can quite successfully be produced on the developed, cheaper T-90 chassis (as seen in the parade)? Similar can be asked for various bridge laying, repair and recovery vehicles, all other equipment that does not need thick armor and a separate armored capsule for the crew. Finally, how reasonable is it at all to disperse forces, making instead of new tanks, of which there will not be enough of themselves, a vehicle based on it? Generally, if we talk about saving, then the same thrifty Israel would remember it, who used the Trophy T-54 / T-55 and the outdated Centurion to convert into heavy armored personnel carriers in their time, they remembered historywhen the Germans during the Second World War widely used tank chassis, even outdated and discontinued, for all their SPGs. We have all the stockpiles of armored vehicles are expected to significantly reduce, simply destroy.

What prevents the use of stocks of T-72 for alterations in BMPT, for their action together with tanks in the first line, what prevents to create on this tank base a similarity to the Israeli heavy armored personnel carrier Akhzarit for infantry? They don’t want to see unification and savings here, although there are already many interesting projects and developments.

They talk about the special protection of new platforms. The protection of the T-95, if it were put into service, would now be no worse than what is assumed on the T-14.
On the T-95, the separation of the crew into a separate armored capsule was largely due to the use of powerful 152 mm 2A83 guns, in an uninhabited tower and an additional 30 mm automatic 2XXUMUM gun. With the 42 mm gun (125А2-82М) on the T-1, this already raises doubts over the decision applied on the Black Eagle tank or the solutions in the new tank modules for existing tanks.





On the Orel, it was not the crew that was allocated to a separate armored capsule, but a new automatic loader and ammunition for the 125-mm gun, freeing up space inside the tank and strengthening its protection. The breaking of the armored capsule can lead to the death of the entire crowded crew at the same time. On the “Black Eagle” the crew, being in a spacious, well-reserved volume, was carried and had an individual hatch for everyone, breaking through the ammunition ammunition, leading the explosion through the expeller hatches upwards. Close decisions on the separation and separation of ammunition were also used on new tank modules already mentioned, Proryv and Burlak, when modernizing old tanks or releasing T-90MS. All this was cheaper and no less effective in the complex for arming the army.



The appearance in our army of a heavy infantry fighting vehicle T-15 of the Armata platform, presumably an event, for the sake of this had to fit the body of the T-14 tank to the possibility of the front and rear engine layout, but what's the point? It is unlikely that such violence over the layout has improved the dimensions of the tank itself, and in terms of economy (expensive tank base) and the combat expediency of a heavy BMP, not everything looks smooth.

The defeat of the tank in battle is fraught with the loss of the crew, we have three tankers, the defeat of a number of heavy infantry fighting vehicles, which is fraught with the loss of not only its crew, but of the entire infantry assault force, for the T-15 infantry fighting vehicles, it will be eleven people. Here, again, it is useful to remember Israel, whose emphasis on protection is so much loved by us to emphasize, advocating heavy BMPs. First, in the IDF they use not heavy infantry fighting vehicles, but heavy armored personnel carriers. Secondly, only the auxiliary machine-gun armament is put on the BTR, so that no one would even think of using them instead of tanks. Remembering the experience of others, we must remember that the same Israel is half the size of the Moscow region, that there is a dry climate and a low-water region, and the IDF operations in many respects have a police orientation against the militants. If you need a "police tank" for the special forces of the Ministry of Internal Affairs, perhaps there is a reason to do the BM-T-15 mastodons, as far as the army needs, the question.



In the USSR, for the first time in the world, the BMP appeared, a versatile and maneuverable machine. Also for the first time in the world, BMPT became a logical development of Soviet military thought, embodied in a heavy, well-reserved car, designed to help attacking tanks. Having the protection of not only inferior but superior tank, special equipment, lacking tanks, and shooters operators, instead of infantry from loopholes, BMPT and should have been the best alternative to heavy BMP. But, BMPT did not have a place in the army, which, as it were, did not specifically want to prepare for the opportunity to wage a large-scale war.

Speaking about the protection of "Kurgants-25", you can say the same thing as in T-15, adding that all of his increased booking can be nullified by its size, as a target.



The upgraded BMP-2 (“Earring”) in this seems even more preferable, both in terms of development, price-quality ratio, and reserves in the army.

The “Boomerang” platform, where special protection against explosions and unloading of infantry behind the vehicle is highlighted. Generally, this monster is impressive, if it was created only because the militants laid land mines on the roads of the marching columns of our equipment, so the land mine can always be laid more powerful, the marching columns will always be vulnerable here. The best defense of the column is its competent escort, good intelligence and skillful sappers, and not the endless reinforcement of the bottom of armored cars, under increasingly powerful land mines, especially since no one will fight on the minefields, as always only go marching columns on mined in rear roads.



What is the meaning of the new platforms, why our reformers in the field of this “ballet” with platforms in the army were ahead of the rest? For the sake of what "garden", all army armored vehicles from a clean slate were going to rewrite, billions were happy to spend on raw equipment, and decided to discard ready-made equipment and recycle thousands of pieces to start up?

Here again we have to remember the era of Anatoly Eduardovich Serdyukov (who had already forgotten - the Minister of Defense of Russia in 2007-2012). It should be noted that Vladimir Putin’s decision to appoint Anatoly Eduardovich can be explained by the fact that Serdyukov proved during his service at the Federal Tax Service (Federal Tax Service) the ability to control huge financial flows. The president then stressed that Serdyukov has experience in the field of economics and finance, and here it is necessary to control “huge budget funds” for the modernization of the armed forces. So, the first is “financial flows” in the military. To rearm them, they had to be identified and implemented.

In October, 2008, Anatoly Serdyukov announced the beginning of the transition to a "new look" of the Russian army. The transition to a new look is significant because in three years the Russian army ceased to be a reduced copy of the Soviet, mass mobilization for a big war was no longer envisaged (respectively, and the reserve equipment is not needed), just like the global armed conflict itself was considered unlikely. Russia had to get a compact, professional army capable of solving the tasks of various local conflicts and conducting anti-terrorist operations (for which the army equipment of the global war became less in demand for anti-terrorist equipment for police operations).

The size of the wartime army was set at 1,7 million versus 5 million in 2008, and the cropped, incomplete mobilized units were largely eliminated. This made the Russian army more similar to the separate armies of the small NATO countries and some of our other friends and partners. In 2008-2010, the number of officers was reduced from 350 000 to 150 000 (although it was decided to increase it to 2011 220 in 000), more than 1000 cropped units and storage bases were eliminated, 24 ground forces divisions were redeveloped in about 90 and the 72 air regiment and 14 air bases, to seven first and seven second air bases, the number of military schools reduced from 65 to 10.

In the same financial course, a grand sale of non-core assets of the Ministry of Defense, the transfer of supplies to outsourcing and the reform of arms procurement began.

The purchase of weapons, housing and materials were removed from Serdyukov from the control of the military, they began to deal with manned civilian structures of the Ministry of Defense. Anatoly Eduardovich, steering the financial flows, did not understand much in military affairs, for this was a reliable reform associate, a great innovator and tactician, the future winner of Georgia and Hero of Russia Nikolay Makarov. Plus a big fan of Mercedes and Leopards, Alexander Postnikov, plus someone’s patriot of interests, Vladimir Popovkin.


The theory of a compact army for local wars gained an idea, a single economical platform, a kind of armored transformer set. If common sense can be stepped over somewhere, then the laws of physics cannot be ignored, we had to divide the platforms into weight categories and decide on the track and wheelbase. It was announced that the main condition for the creation of families of armored vehicles is the maximum possible use on the chassis of all types of machines of unified components (assemblies, assemblies, assembly units). For example, the use of engines of the same size range. From this series, for machines of the middle category, its own structurally unified series based on a tank engine, and for light-duty vehicles, its own series based on the engine for the BMP. Respectively for systems of engines, transmissions and so on.

The principles of broad unification most fully dream to realize when creating the next enlargement, concern (holding) BTT or BTVT (armored weapons and equipment).

What is the fundamental innovation here, especially if you still have to divide the equipment into families?

Just bases for technology will be less, as expected, only four. Still old stocks that "pocket pull" will destroy, that's all.

It is noteworthy that foreign media happily commented on the emergence of new “platforms” at the parade, as if they recognized their “own” and saw their “native”. Thus, the Japanese publication “The Diplomat” enthusiastically noted: “Russian armored vehicles on the Armata platform demonstrate a complete break with the legacy of the Soviet era in weapons systems.”



Indeed, you look at the new “platforms” and think: hello, the capitalist relatives of the colonial expeditionary “Bradley”, “Warriors”, LAV-25 and “Strikers”, so now we can do that.
Farewell, "backward" Soviet tank school, your armored graceful children waiting for recycling.

However, before planning extensive cuts in their tanks, throwing money on new and indisputable ideas, it would be worthwhile to think hard about what we can build now only with pieces and dozens (even trying to sell for export), and are ready to dispose of hundreds and thousands. If not a local, but a large-scale war, there will be no time to make new tanks, nothing, and nowhere else. In fact, we already have only one "UVZ".

For your information, as reported, Omsktransmash (Omsk Tank Plant) was in bankruptcy proceedings since 2002. For almost 14 years, almost all of the assets of the company were sold in the process of being transferred to other owners or sold. Of all the assets left only two non-residential premises in Omsk on the street. Karelo-Finnish and 10-th Cheredova - for the price on which creditors insist, nobody wanted to buy them. Two more rooms on the street. Grizodubova, 20, sold, but for some reason the money was not received for them. To bring the bankruptcy procedure to the end and with a light heart to sign liquidation acts, the bankruptcy trustee of the plant Yuri Remizov asked the court to extend the bankruptcy proceedings for another six months. After examining the arguments presented, the arbitration agreed with him, but he shortened the requested period to two months. The end date of the bankruptcy proceedings, that is, in effect, the liquidation of one of the largest tank manufacturers in the USSR, fell, by a strange coincidence, on May 9 - Victory Day.

So, if we are to thank for the new platforms of Anatoly Eduardovich and his “brothers in arms”, it’s just that these platforms have not become imported, and that so far not all of the Soviet ones have been destroyed. In general, it is somehow difficult to believe in the good deeds of those who caused so much damage to the defense of our country. They always want “the best”, justifying short-sighted or criminal decisions. If we are talking about unification, this will bring the matter to the point of absurdity, and the good attempts of the reformers will turn into even greater problems for the army. If the economy, so under its slogans will throw away and squeeze billions.

Of course, there is no point in denying the benefits of the new and the modern, everything that is being done for the good of Russia, the whole question of when, who and how will do it. It is useful to remember that many technologies were lost, entire design schools died. In addition, the Ministry of Defense, while ordering new equipment, simultaneously eliminated its own scientific research institutes and test sites. But it is not enough to design and even build new equipment; it should be tested using specially designed programs, first in closed landfills, then in the military. Only after that make a decision, what is done is suitable for service in the army, or it requires serious improvement. The introduction of the new model in the system, it is a whole science, which for a quarter of a century has practically been lost. Much to revive.

The president gave the command to equip the army with armored novelties, but they are still raw. Now, in any case, all will take?

The enterprising gentlemen would not break the firewood here, would not this new-fashioned “platform” for our army have become a bitter “panel” in the interests of the selfish business; even worse, a fatal mistake of a grandiose experiment under a good excuse.

Any technique is aging, there is always something better, and one thing is to make replacements, having a more diverse technique, and another thing is if everything becomes obsolete at the same time, if you again have to rewrite everything from scratch. Is it good when single “platforms” start to be presented as a panacea for military progress? Recall the initial idea of ​​IBM (at one time each new Pentium, II, III, IV, buried the previous one, along with the already cracked dream of an eternal “open architecture”). It did not work out universal modularity for all times and all cases, even on the basis of a single computer platform. We will create a precedent, there will be more than one, even four platforms for armored vehicles, we will write off the “old” in the scrap. But these platforms will become obsolete, and the entire uncontested fleet of armored vehicles on it will become obsolete at the same time, even worse if the concept of such universal "economy" becomes outdated earlier or becomes untenable. At the same time, you will either have to return to the “diversity of types”, leaving the equipment from the previous platform, or each time start all over again, completely re-equipping with all the new “platforms”.

The security of the country, military equipment is hardly the level when it can be measured by the same standard as changing the population of mobile phones or updating the fleet of cars.

Naturally, I can be mistaken, sincerely mistaken and "carry excellent nonsense." There are doubts, inevitable questions arise, and it would be strange if those who make fateful decisions on Russia's security do not have questions. The war on the threshold is one thing, if I make a mistake, I will even set myself up as a fool here, we won’t lose the war, and it is incomparably worse if our leaders and commanding fathers make mistakes.

It remains to hope and simply believe that smart people will sort out everything and make the right decisions, both with the new and old equipment, and with a competent understanding of the defense of Russia in the war.

He said how he could, hardly many people will like my sad thoughts. Who cares, comment in the comments. Maybe something will change for the better from our thoughts, after all, the main thing is not personal ambitions, but order in tank units and strong defense of Russia. Peace to your home!

Used materials from sites:
http://www.vedomosti.ru
http://takya.ru
http://www.autoshcool.ru
http://3mv.ru
http://zasssr.info
http://omskgazzeta.ru
http://rufor.org
31 comment
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  1. +6
    23 June 2015 07: 34
    The right questions are raised by Comrade Pers. Sorry for the exact answers will not be
    1. +6
      23 June 2015 08: 29
      Quote: ps-1972
      The right questions are raised by Comrade Pers

      What are the right ones? Kamrad is very clearly nostalgic for the past and is intensely looking for flaws in the new technology. Naturally, there are still a lot of postpartum sores in them, and there are purely constructive flaws, but I personally did not see any reason for mourning in the development of new models. Especially here it delivered: "The best defense of the column is its competent security, good reconnaissance and skillful sappers, and not the endless reinforcement of the bottom of armored cars, under increasingly powerful land mines, especially since no one will fight in minefields, as well as forever only marching columns on mined in the rear of the roads. " As the saying goes, the men don’t even know.
      1. +1
        25 June 2015 23: 08
        The author of the article forgets that mine resistance is one of the main modern requirements for the BTR-BMP and light vehicles. And with this, the Soviet developments are very bad.
    2. +3
      23 June 2015 10: 03
      The right questions are raised by Comrade Pers. Sorry for the exact answers will not be

      Which ones? first he sucks the bmpt, saying that we don’t need it, then the bmp, saying that in Israel an armored personnel carrier with a machine gun decides everything (and this is the same BMPT), but how did it get to the armored personnel carrier, it scatters it for increased booking ... Yeah right questions for any liberal, and torso without brains.
      1. +3
        23 June 2015 15: 35
        Quote: TheMi30
        The right questions are raised by Comrade Pers. Sorry for the exact answers will not be

        Which ones? first he sucks the bmpt, saying that we don’t need it, then the bmp, saying that in Israel an armored personnel carrier with a machine gun decides everything (and this is the same BMPT), but how did it get to the armored personnel carrier, it scatters it for increased booking ... Yeah right questions for any liberal, and torso without brains.

        Apparently this is the reason that they delayed the purchase of BMPT - in fact, TBMP solves the problem of supporting the tank + makes it possible to transport troops. to allocate a heavy platform just for the sake of installing a 30mm gun and ATGM was really a bit silly. on the occasion that Israel does not use its "Akhzarits" on the front line, so this is the alteration of the T-55, in terms of security they do not reach the "Merkava 4", and why the "Merkava-4" BMP - is there also a troop compartment there? That is, again the author compared warm with soft and came to the conclusion that we do not need green ...
      2. -3
        23 June 2015 18: 02
        You have bad Russian. And with logic it doesn’t matter at all.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +2
      23 June 2015 15: 21
      The understanding of trends is not correct. Yes, the word "platform" is really more of a marketing than an engineering innovation, but it also reflects the idea of ​​developing our aircraft. Unreasonable fear due to the obsolescence of BTT - it proceeds an order of magnitude slower than electronics - remember that fundamentally new in armored vehicles has appeared over the past 30 years and compare the progress of the same processors - this is heaven and earth. The volume of purchases: if they are set in thousands of units, the corresponding capacities will be built, you do not need to count yourself smarter than others, the money allocated for re-equipment will be spent on this. The increase in the power of explosive devices is also stupidity, well, terrorists do not even have tens of kilograms of explosives, most often an IED is a 125-152 mm land mine - up to 10 kilograms of TNT, and you cannot secretly install any more. The only thing is that the questions about the rearmament / decommissioning of thousands of units of equipment, the elimination of military units remain a sore subject
    5. 0
      24 June 2015 11: 41
      Controversial article.
      About Armata - I agree, it is unclear why she is better than the Black Eagle or T-95.
      Boomerang, it seems to me, is a positive step in the field of armored personnel carriers. The BTR 70-90 family was not without flaws.
      BMPT is a very controversial decision in the form in which it was created. And in any case, many orders for them would not be. It would probably be better to make an assault tank with weapons similar to the BMP-3.
      TBMP T-15 - I agree, not a particularly effective monster. It was much more efficient to cut the T-55, T-62, T-72, T-80.
      T-64 into the furnace, for alterations is not suitable in comparison with the previous ones, to leave in warehouses as a mob tank or to make maximum BREM cars, engineering, tractors and artillery platforms.
      Nothing has been said about the light SUV and the army truck, but they are not. A little to finish the existing UAZ, and that would be unique.
    6. 0
      29 March 2016 11: 04
      There is an answer, and he is a simple-Persian miserable Judeo-liberal insignificance writing custom articles .. Putinslil and all the time, that's the whole point of his pseudo-expert writing)
  2. +1
    23 June 2015 08: 31
    What kind of tank is on the right in the 7th picture?
    1. +4
      23 June 2015 11: 23
      This is the T-64E.
      http://topwar.ru/4627-t-64e.html
  3. +14
    23 June 2015 09: 05
    A short comment from personal practice regarding the reduction of the so-called cropped parts. I had to serve a year in an art regiment in the Border District of Primorsky Krai. To the border with China, 20 km in a straight line. A little more than 200 personal. A large number of equipment in long-term storage (full ammunition, diesel fuel in tanks, put the battery in battle). In case of war, the fixed reservists will not have time to get to the military registration and enlistment offices, and the Chinese crews will already drive our equipment out of the boxes. Definitely, we do not need such parts. So, as usual, each minus has its own plus (and vice versa).
    1. wanderer_032
      +5
      23 June 2015 11: 43
      Quote: GOgaRu
      A large number of equipment in long-term storage (full ammunition, solarium in tanks, put the battery in battle)


      It happens only on paper, and when war breaks out, a commotion in the chicken coop begins.
      If 20 km. from the border, then the territory of this part will simply be covered with artillery fire and that's it.
      Buses / trucks with reservists will come to the charred little heads to meet the advancing columns of the enemy and most likely they will be shot from tanks or infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers.
      1. +2
        23 June 2015 21: 39
        Quote: wanderer_032
        It only happens on paper, and when war breaks out in a chicken coop. If 20 km. from the border, then the territory of this part will simply be covered with artillery fire and that's it. Buses / trucks with reservists will come to the charred little heads towards the advancing columns of the enemy and most likely they will be shot from tanks or infantry fighting vehicles / armored personnel carriers.

        Well, if we talk like that, we go further, the button is choked and that’s it. Hello microbes! So the author is right for 20 km the cropped part is nonsense and such parts are needed ..
    2. +1
      24 June 2015 21: 35
      Do not forget that before you stood the frontier post, frontier detachment, then the whole UR (on alert duty), then two more small and medium-sized businesses, and only then you are in Sergeevka. And the distance in a straight line was not 20 km.
  4. +10
    23 June 2015 09: 06
    In the "backward" of the USSR on the basis of the T-72 for a long time produced a variety of military vehicles.

    In the USSR, 3 MBT coexisted at the same time - T-64, T-72, T-80, in various modifications. And in some places, the T-62 survived. And on the basis of all these machines they created various equipment. To the delight of providing parts ...
    For example, the T-64 division is in service, and the MTU is based on the T-72.

    The appearance in our army of a heavy infantry fighting vehicle T-15 of the Armata platform, presumably an event, for the sake of this had to fit the body of the T-14 tank to the possibility of the front and rear engine layout, but what's the point? It is unlikely that such violence over the layout has improved the dimensions of the tank itself, and in terms of economy (expensive tank base) and the combat expediency of a heavy BMP, not everything looks smooth.

    A decision was made on the need for such a machine. Of course, it is convenient to make it on the same components and assemblies as the tank.
    In addition, if it is planned to create a whole family of machines on this platform, it is advisable to have both front and rear engine layout.
    As for the "combat expediency" - the military knows better, the KVM.

    A tank’s defeat in battle is fraught with the loss of crew, we have three tankers, a defeat of a heavy infantry fighting vehicle passing by is already fraught with the loss of not only its crew, but also the entire infantry assault force, for the T-15 infantry fighting vehicle, it will be eleven people.

    Well, of course, outside the infantry is much safer to advance ... They must still have their helmets and body armor removed - they are heavy and the soldiers quickly get tired. And they are expensive ...

    Here again, it is useful to recall Israel, whose care for protection is so beloved in our country, advocating for heavy infantry fighting vehicles.

    You know, there are people who should be banned from remembering Israel on this resource. At all. They do not understand how Israel and its theater of operations and the economy differ from Russia. And they make incorrect conclusions, to put it mildly.


    Also, for the first time in the world, BMPT became the logical development of Soviet military thought, embodied in a heavy, well-armored vehicle, designed to help attacking tanks. Having protection not only not inferior to but also superior to the tank, special equipment lacking tanks, and operator shooters, instead of infantry from the loopholes, BMPTs should have become the best alternative to heavy infantry fighting vehicles. But, BMPT did not find a place in the army, which it seems that they did not specifically want to prepare for the possibility of waging a large-scale war.


    T-15 has the same qualities, but also takes the landing.
    By the way - the best help to attacking tanks is their own infantry. They usually fight together. True, there is no infantry in WOT, and this complicates the work of analysts during the holidays ...
    1. +6
      23 June 2015 11: 34
      Quote: Mik13
      For example, the T-64 division is in service, and the MTU is based on the T-72.

      Yeah .. and IMR-2 at the same base.
      Plus BTS-2 or 4 "with a letter" on the basis of T-54/55.

      Engineers in general have a noble zoo - there is even a SU-122-54 chassis there.
      1. +4
        23 June 2015 15: 46
        yes ... you are right - the desire for unification led to de-standardization - and the fault was in our four tank plants / design bureaus, each of which produced its own vehicles. that is, it turned out that for MBT unification was not important, but for auxiliary / engineering equipment it was put at the forefront. Of course, there was a point in this, but such a strong variety and difference among MBTs was made in vain.
  5. +5
    23 June 2015 09: 07

    The upgraded BMP-2 (“Earring”) in this seems even more preferable, both in terms of development, price-quality ratio, and reserves in the army.

    Well, yes - especially the price .. Cheaper only on foot ... And safer.
    Perhaps we will configure BTR from T-26? it will turn out quite inexpensively ...


    What is the meaning of new platforms, why did our reformers in the field of this “ballet" with platforms in the army be ahead of the rest?

    Well - while Russia is a leading country in the world of tank building. Or do we have to wait until the Germans first tiger-3 zapilyat?

    For the sake of what “the garden was fenced”, they gathered to rewrite all army armored vehicles from scratch, billions were glad to spend on raw equipment, and decided to reject the finished and tested equipment and put it into scrap for thousands?


    because sooner or later any technology becomes obsolete and exhausts its modernization potential.
    And you need to start producing something fundamentally new - which in turn will live on the 50 years through the 3-4 major modernizations and many small ...
    By the way - we’re not talking about junk yet. will replace old samples with new ones as they develop a resource. Or they will sell it to Syria - there is demand.

    In general, the article is a minus.
    1. +5
      23 June 2015 11: 25
      Quote: Mik13
      Perhaps we will configure BTR from T-26? it will turn out quite inexpensively ...

      Yes, right now. Authentic running T-26 in our time will be more expensive than Almaty. laughing
  6. The comment was deleted.
  7. -1
    23 June 2015 09: 14
    Recentlybut I had a chance to read one comment on “Military Review”, the meaning of which was that, as the author put it, “thanks to the damned Taburetkin, Makarov, Popovkin (the kingdom of heaven to him), that in due time they set before the military-industrial complex a demand and an ultimatum to create new models tracked and wheeled armored vehicles. "
    Yes, do not blame everything on these Heroes of Russia, they carried out the order as they could.
  8. +1
    23 June 2015 09: 19
    Farewell, "backward" Soviet tank school, your armored graceful children waiting for recycling.


    why did our reformers in the field of this “ballet" with platforms in the army be ahead of the rest?


    I don’t even want to comment on this.
    You know, different opinions in one head are not pluralism, but a symptom of schizophrenia ...

    Naturally, I can be mistaken, sincerely mistaken, and "bring beautiful nonsense."

    The war is on the verge, it’s one thing, if I make a mistake, I will even make a fool of myself here, we won’t lose the war from this ...


    I strongly agree with these conclusions. drinks
    1. +3
      23 June 2015 17: 41
      Quote: Mik13
      Farewell, "backward" Soviet tank school, your armored graceful children waiting for recycling.

      why did our reformers in the field of this “ballet" with platforms in the army be ahead of the rest?

      I don’t even want to comment on this.
      You know, different opinions in one head are not pluralism, but a symptom of schizophrenia ...

      For the sake of justice, I think you have inattentively read these phrases, they are, in general, written in the same vein. hi
      1. +5
        23 June 2015 21: 31
        Quote: Vladimirets
        For the sake of justice, I think you have carefully read these phrases, they are, in general, written in the same way

        Possible.

        But it seemed to me that Armata was quite a brainchild of the Soviet school of tank building. With this concept in the USSR, various design bureaus have been worn since 50's. It’s just that the level of technological development has allowed to realize only now.

        Therefore, to make claims to Armata, referring to the forethought of the Soviet school of tank construction is somewhat inconsistent ...

        But I do not pretend to be the ultimate truth. hi
  9. avt
    +6
    23 June 2015 09: 29
    Anyone! Explain - what is the article about ??? The fact that - ,, The modernized BMP-2 ("Berezhok") in this seems even more preferable, both in terms of development, price-quality ratio, and reserves in the army. "--- like ,, Kurganets" is not necessary to bring raw? Well, the author missed it in life - the BMP-3 was ordered. Or they are also not needed - is it better to take a deuce from storage ?? I would write simply and a little - "Everything is gone, the plaster is removed, the client is leaving ..."
  10. +11
    23 June 2015 10: 17
    did not set neither + nor -.
    I will say this: unification in the world of capitalism is harm, because it excludes marketing, and this in turn reduces the profit of the same equipment manufacturers. By the way, if you take the whole world, then even such a segment as mobile phones, ONLY NOW, began to come to a single charging port (micro USB) and a headphone port (2.5 jack).
    Remember earlier Sony Ericsson (RIP) has one port, Samsung has a second, and there is Apple with its own "lightning".
    To come to unification, you need to get away from capitalism, and this is already a matter of state strategy and long years of "one's path".

    in occasion of Serdyukov: count him in the ass for the fact that he was reducing the officers, military schools, universities and academies. But the Soviet army was really cumbersome and sooner or later we would still have reduced both the fleet of vehicles and the number of the army itself, because she was imprisoned under a completely different.
    And it’s extremely difficult to maintain such a huge military machine, given the very difficult economic times for our country. And just agree that you cannot create something new or modernize it without destroying anything. You just need to do this with maximum accuracy and trepidation. This is the main claim to stool.
    But all the same, the principle and path, I believe, is true, because today everything is bad, but there are prospects for development, there is a clear command and its centers, there are military districts and a clear structure has been created. It’s impossible to do everything right the first time ... at least not with us wassat ... here we need attempts and bitter experience, which in the end will lead us to that ideal army shape that meets the threats to our country.

    and at the expense of platforms: I agree that the approach is controversial, since Indeed, it is not at all necessary to put the same art on the "armature", the T-90 platform would fit perfectly, BUT, as VVP said, if we are not able to put the army in order now, then there simply may not be such an opportunity. And here there is a grain of truth: we are entering a time of tough confrontation with the "civilized" West. This will last, I am sure, for a very long time, and Ukraine is just the beginning. Here, all stakes will be made on wear and tear, and carrying a load weighing in the old and good Soviet army, spending HUGE money on its maintenance, is extremely unreasonable.
    Conclusion (purely my IMHO + thoughts of the author of the article): it’s crooked and hard, not as we would like, during tough opposition, both from within and from outside, but still the army is being modernized. Yes, the terms, AS ALWAYS (but not only here ... the same F-35) are burning, but nevertheless, the Arctic is developing, there is a vision of the way. There is experience in the ground forces, there is in the air force, now the main thing is to go this way. And then we are just starting to build one, as elections are held, a new "player" comes to the throne, appoints a new cabinet of ministers and all over again, everything is new ... we need heredity and continuity both in the army and in politics with the economy. We need our own course and ideology. In short, the questions are global.
    Thank you for the attention. it was possible to convert this post separately into an article. hi
    1. 0
      24 June 2015 09: 05
      We switched to microUSB because in the EU the next commission decided to introduce a "green tax" on the sale of phones, as their chargers were flooded with garbage dumps. The Commission invited the manufacturers to decide on the "universal charging" themselves. As a result, salesmen (retail) began to demand unified charges from manufacturers and refused to buy ordinary ones (so as not to waste money on paying bribes for the sale). First, the transition to miniUSB was made, but it turned out to be too thick for the new generation of communicators and smartphones, and then the decision was made to create microUSB. Now they are finishing a new plug smaller, more convenient, more reliable, with greater speed and power.
      1. 0
        24 June 2015 10: 42
        also with HDMI. also sat down, scratched turnips and gave birth to a new port universal. And there is also a Display port, VGA, d-sub, in our high-tech age I saw some tulips even display a picture wassat and hell knows what
  11. 0
    23 June 2015 10: 30
    And it seems that the comrade for the Fatherland is pleased, but still the sediment remains. All mud, it is possible. Previously, everything was better - this is also correct. But you, comrade, for whom? For white or for red?
    1. +1
      23 June 2015 10: 53
      Quote: erofich
      For white or for red?

      ..For the "Internationale"!
  12. +4
    23 June 2015 10: 57
    The author of the article expressed his vision and his pain for the state and development of domestic armored vehicles. And they pounced on him. Is there any benefit to our defense capability from such "attacks"? And, in my opinion, the topic of the article is correct. And I have a simple question - are there a lot of professionals in our Armed Forces to make literate fateful decisions? Or are "effective managers" running the show again? I would like to read here balanced reasoning, and not shouts of jingoistic patriots. For victory in war, they are as useful as they are from obvious enemies.
    1. 0
      23 June 2015 19: 55
      Quote: okroshka79
      Are there many professionals in our Armed Forces to make literate fateful decisions? Or, again, effective

      To a simple question - a simple answer. Somewhere on the official website of the local MO there is a list of senior officials of the ministry (possibly with photos and a brief biography). It is these people who make decisions. Their fate does not depend on their literacy.
      This applies to any army in the world - in no army does one of the untreated with powers and ranks of the weather does. And this is not a flaw - this is a feature of the army ...
  13. wanderer_032
    +2
    23 June 2015 11: 27
    Question to the author.
    And why is the concept of creating standard tracked / wheeled chassis for the ground troops bad in his opinion?

    By the way, in the article not all the new military-industrial complex news on this topic are present.
    Not affected by automotive technology.

    I’ll try to make a brief review of the new equipment that has been designed recently under the concept of unification and for the needs of the ground forces of the Moscow Region, and not other law enforcement agencies.

    I'll start with automotive technology.
    In the class of light multipurpose military vehicles, several models appeared:

    1. A family of special vehicles "Tiger" (developed by AMZ Design Bureau)
    2. A family of special vehicles "Wolf" (which were designed for the same requirements as the heavy-class vehicles "Typhoon", developed by the AMZ Design Bureau)
    3. The family of multipurpose vehicles "Scorpion" (developer MK "Zashchita")

    Trucks:

    1. Family of armored vehicles "Typhoon" (developed by OJSC KAMAZ)
    2. Family of armored vehicles "Typhoon" (developed by OJSC "UaralAZ")

    The remaining samples of automotive equipment are modernization (partial or deep) of already mass-produced samples.

    Armored vehicles.

    1.Base armored wheeled chassis "Boomerang" (head developer AMZ Design Bureau)
    2.Base armored tracked chassis "Kurganets-25" (lead developer KB MK "Tractor Plants")
    3.Basic heavy armored tracked chassis "Armata" (lead developer UKBTM-UVZ)

    The remaining samples of armored vehicles are partial or deep modernization of mass-produced samples.

    As you can see all types of military equipment is not so much recruited.
  14. +1
    23 June 2015 12: 20
    I haven’t read the article, the law is not interesting, it’s too politicized. I have been reading your site for more than 5 years, I agree in some ways, in some ways I don’t, but I respect the position !!!! Regarding this publication. I’m not a paratrooper, I served in military intelligence for 13 years, and in this regard, it is surprising that there are no comments from those military personnel who directly exploit this equipment. Why! Of what you served, unfortunately you are either exaggerating or misleading. Therefore, I ask the owners of a fairly popular site for more objectivity and realism.
  15. +3
    23 June 2015 16: 19
    there will always be people who love everything old and don’t accept the new.
    it’s time to do our development of the Russian school and not the USSR. there is no such country anymore and the brilliance of ingenious designers is also not eternal. sooner or later such a turn was to come. and she stepped on. and this is good.
  16. +3
    23 June 2015 17: 19
    ... the army team said that the modernized T-72 would be the main tank in Russia ...
    ... Armata, I believe, is a transition platform for an "uninhabited" tank ...
  17. +1
    23 June 2015 22: 46
    yes, everything is simple, you need a T-14 and a larger number of T-90cm, one type of all tasks cannot be solved. How to use them is another matter, of course it is better to solve a wider range of issues on the basis of the T-90 and it’s not in vain that the modernization of the T-72M3 was ordered like a tank biathlon, as many as 300 cars, figured it out. That a very good mass tank turned out to be economical. For most tasks it’s very good, but you need cars from the big leagues. So everything is done right.
  18. vladimir1992
    0
    24 June 2015 19: 39
    In a word of Unification, he is trying to bury the main thing ,,,, Modularity ,,,, There is something but not so and why he decided that every time he would have to re-equip it by comparing it with IBM. Now you can take Pentium 4 and change the details there, etc. .d. Install modern games. Modularity is the main thing. Replaced the insides and everything, why change everything. Elementary thinking of our gunsmiths. Modularity. You take the old comp, you change the insides in it and this is the new comp. Everything is simple. It’s the same with the new weapon. the fact that it is possible to cook different parts separately suggests that the effectiveness of the weapon will clearly increase because it is easy to make and replace the old part