Ukrainian politician: "How much can you play in national independence and rush with Western Ukraine?"

"Yesterday, Ukrainian nationalists marched through the central streets of the Ukrainian capital. It was the UPA march, not in memory of the UPA ... Their program documents recorded" moskaliv, lyakhiv and zhidiv under the root of ниischchivati ​​"- and today they act under these slogans" , - Natalya Vitrenko, a representative of the Ukrainian branch of the IR, said in a speech at a working conference of the International Russia movement on October 15 in Moscow, a REGNUM correspondent reports.

“In the hands of Yanukovich, the most important card is the map of torpedoing Russia,” said Vitrenko. “In December 2007, a charter was signed between Ukraine and the United States on strategic partnership - then Yushchenko was president.” The politician turned to the text of the Charter: "Section 2, point 1: Ukraine will become a member of NATO. Section 3, point 2: Western control is established over the energy sector of Ukraine, gas transportation infrastructure, diversification of supplies for Ukrainian nuclear facilities is carried out."

According to Vitrenko, the current Ukrainian leadership pursues the previous course aimed at “having Ukraine become an enemy of Russia, a member of NATO, and that the transport infrastructure - the vein that connects Russia and Europe, was under American control. When Yanukovych became president, he had every reason to denounce this charter. However, the 15 of March 2010 was approved by the parliamentary majority (Party of Regions, the Communist Party of Ukraine and the Lytvyn bloc) (paragraph 5.5) that they pledge to comply with the Ukraine-USA charter on strategic partnership e. All Party of Regions deputies sign the coalition agreement, and 12 on April 2010, Yanukovych meets in US President Barack Obama in Washington and signs a joint statement, which begins with the words that Ukraine pledges to implement the Ukraine-USA charter on strategic partnership. That's what's happening in Ukraine. "

Vitrenko concluded: "Ukraine acts as a torpedo against Russia to please the West. And the West closes its eyes to the manifestations of neo-Nazism in Ukraine, and God knows what else."

She said that "today in 22 areas of 27 there are branches of" International Russia - in Crimea, Ternopil, and other regions. "" As soon as the structures of the Islamic Republic began to organize, this caused (the Ukrainian authorities) fear. And the fundamental article by Vladimir Putin - it generally made a stunning blow to foreign agents: "How dare the presidential candidate talk about the union!" And how not to talk about the union? How many years can you play in national independence? ", - said Vitrenko, referring to the statistics of the socio-economic degradation of Ukraine.

“Is it really not clear that people want an alliance? The Ukrainian authorities do not want this union: they have an enemy - Russia, they have capital in the West, they have an American umbrella,” Vitrenko said. - In May, the Institute of Sociology of the National Academy of Sciences of Ukraine Ukraine conducted a poll on the topic “Would you like Ukraine to join the union of Russia and Belarus?” And 2011% of respondents answered “yes”, 51% opposed. In Western Ukraine, the least willing is 21%. But how many of those in Western Ukraine? How much can you rush with her? ", - said the Ukrainian politician.

"How can we develop an economy without a single currency, how can we protect a single space without a single army? How can we achieve something in the 21st century without uniting in science, jointly improving technologies? We have enormous potential. And we need to fight for survival. And it means for an alliance. And today in Ukraine there is a struggle of the people against the power - the corrupt, pro-American power ", said Vitrenko

“Our mother Russia must be great, and we will be great and powerful together with it. And there will be a new union that no one can win,” Natalya Vitrenko summarized.

As REGNUM news agency reported, 15 of October in Moscow hosted a working conference (congress) of the international movement "International Russia" of the All-Russian Popular Front (ONF).

Comments

[Splin]

But there are no other politicians, or is she fed up as an example?

[His]

Great country Hohland. What to discuss here. Better show off at the borders moderate, do not cross the Finnish ....

[Superduck]

Keep SplinVitrenko is complete inadequate. Only in Ukraine no one guessed to appoint her vice-speaker of the Duma.

[vitvit123]

Yes, Yanukovych is probably like Lukashenko - both ours and yours.

[mind1954]

Behind Lukashenko, the country's industrial bourgeoisie
living by her own labor, and behind Medvedev -
- merchant bourgeoisie (mining, processing
and trading) stealing, selling, betraying
and destroying the country !!!
And for the fate of Lukashenko, the famous fascist clown
can not worry if he stops arranging
those who stand behind him, they will immediately remove him, as well as
KGB agent Shushkevich, without any advice from Moscow,
there are business and serious people, not puppets
transnational capital !!!

[Vadivak]

Ivan the Terrible wrote about these today's Ukrainian fascists: "All the holy fools and the poor should be exiled to the edge - there they belong to fools"

[vlbelugin]

Yes!!!!
Zemlyachek is not ours not Donbass. A real Donbass man would not behave like that.
Cossack mishandled. How did Makeyevka urki not see through him before?
Ukraine is sliding more and more, and not only economically, but mainly by the brains.
How can fascist marches be allowed in a civilized country, especially in the capital?
They should sit, not march.
I knew that they (x ... ly) with Pribabah, but what would it be!
It is necessary to introduce a couple of three divisions for the protection of gas and oil pipelines and protection Moskaliv, Poles and Jews .
So I think that the eastern regions will meet with flowers.
And Western is forced to peace.

[svvaulsh]

Do they need Westerners? Hai be independent.

[vlbelugin]

We don’t need an inch of a foreign land, but we won’t give up our tip.

[Tyumen]

svvaulsh, Hai be independent.

I’m even afraid to imagine what they’ll arrange for themselves.

[zczczc]

vlbelugin, on Wednesday he has a "day of admission to the pioneers" - either it will bend under the European Union, or is really worth something. From Europe, he was told in an informal telephone conversation that Yulia should be released by Wednesday, otherwise they would be offended.
They didn’t give 2 days in vain - during this time you will not have time to compose a second charge. And if he lets her go, then it is obvious that she will leave the country.

So let's see.

[Tolia]

Your first ones are being hanged by your Donetsk ones)))), because they don’t need Russians, for someone else to bother them with their Donbass flock to graze ...

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Perhaps you can do without divisions. Until.

The procession of freaks is one thing, and international politics is another. In Moscow, we also had gay parades.

And the authorities ... With them, if anything, and the Ukrainian people themselves will understand. Must at least.

Our government loot is also not in Sberbank. About umbrellas generally silent.

In short, do not escalate hysteria, time is the best judge, the best doctor and the best executioner.

[Ivan35]

I will support the banshee! I am confident in the wisdom of the Ukrainian people - they themselves will figure it out and understand what's what. Good comparison with Gay Parades

[Sergh]

It would be nice if the truth changed their minds, but it had already come to a funny point, not to themselves not to people. Well, not strangers, after all, it's time to think with your head, and not an asshole!

[vlbelugin]

There is a good Russian fairy tale - Fire, water and copper pipes.
It turns out that praise is much more difficult to overcome than fire and water.
Just imagine that these poor (x ..... m) all the time shout that the Ini are the most Ukrainian of the Ukrainians, that they are the most Slavic of the Slavs, that the unfinished Muscovites are around. And people are slowly getting used to it.
Hitler was able in his time, in the shortest possible time to make "supermen" from the Germans. A nation of philosophers, a cultured nation. How well he introduced the selectivity of the Germans to everyone's ears. They only came to their senses when our tanks were in Berlin. They were surprised that subhumans were able to defeat them.
Now the same thing is happening. on Ukraine.
And the Ukrainian people, especially the youth themselves already can not figure it out.
After all, even look at our website, in all our shortcomings and troubles, we baptize ourselves and our government.
They (h..ly) blame us for everything - Muscovites, Jews and surprisingly (explicit search not according to the scenario) Poles.
And by analogy with the Germans, I think that until the "lych" is received, they will not calm down.

[Splin]

For 4 months of reading comments, I just saw the opposite picture - an attempt to moral humiliation of Ukrainian citizens. Persistent proof of their inferiority. Yes. those who were born in the late 80s, it’s hard to imagine even the 90s, when neighbors from one street went on opposite sides of the showdown. Those who write any garbage about inferiority quickly drop out. And calling hoh-mi or mosk-mi is the most primitive insult, by a person who has not traveled further than the region. Do not be like the Americans who do not know geography and consider themselves the titular nation.

[vlbelugin]

Yes, I myself am Makeevsky. And the Bulgarian granny called me ka-pom because my dad is Russian. And daughter hoch..koy because her father is Ukrainian. And by the way, we had no national offenses.
Sorry, but the behavior of many of your fellow citizens and cause a sense of inferiority and have to be rude to put them in place.
Admit that in Russia there are no rallies, posters calling for the destruction of Ukrainians.

[Splin]

Therefore, do not be like them. These are more unreasonable children, as you correctly said earlier, but with the asymmetric answers in a similar style they offend the entire population of the neighboring state.

[Superduck]

Quote: vlbelugin

Admit that in Russia there are no rallies, posters calling for the destruction of Ukrainians.

Those. Do you mean that there are similar posters in Ukraine about Russians? And the courts, in your words, are a mass phenomenon? What a massive hallucination!

[slan]

Quote: Splin

Persistent proof of their inferiority

And what do you expect to receive in response?
If at your place any group of people obsessively and stubbornly proves their exclusivity day after day, not being shy to pour mud on the owners, then they inevitably beg for an assessment: either they are really exceptionally outstanding already by birthright, or they’re still unique nonsense .
If a freak is sitting quietly in a stroller, no normal adult would ever think of mocking his ugliness. But if the geek himself behaves defiantly in society, tries to assert himself by humiliating other people, there is nothing to rely on tolerance and condescension.

[Splin]

Quote: slan

If at your place some group of people is obsessive

One thing is not clear, what does "at home" mean?

[slan]

Quote: Splin

One thing is not clear, what does "at home" mean?

Metaphor. You see, if you are rude to a Russian in RuNet, this can be compared precisely with uninvited guests. I’m not specifically about you, again, I’m clarifying.

[Splin]

I am fluent in Spanish and English. Knowing Ukrainian, I understand almost all the languages ​​of the Western Slavs. But communicating with them on forums is like a deaf person talking to a blind person about music and painting. I speak and many speak with those who are closer to me in mentality and historical patterns (although I am 75% Greek). So are the rest. Therefore, you do not need to be the master! "At home." There are Ukrainian similar sites, but unfortunately you will not understand some of the statements in them without knowing the language.

[slan]

Splin, you perfectly understand what I meant. If you hate Russian culture, there is no need to force yourself into society with fellows in "mentality and historical regularity."
And do not belittle my fakin ukryte. You don’t even know me.
About "knowing Ukrainian, I understand almost all the languages ​​of the Western Slavs" I will tactfully keep silent, discuss this achievement on the sites where, in your opinion, I will not understand some of the statements.

[Splin]

One should not confuse the great Russian culture with the politics and the system that is now in Russia. And if someone considers himself "raped", he is either a masochist and homosexual who continues to write in the topics, or disappears from the forum.
And if I continue to write, I consider that an alternative adequate opinion is needed. And I appear only in those topics that I know of.

[slan]

Quote: Splin

Do not confuse the great Russian culture with the politics and the system that is now in Russia.

What ?! A little less pathos.
Maybe the great Russian nature is not to be confused with the weather that is now "located" in Russia?

Quote: Splin

And if I continue to write, I consider that an alternative adequate opinion is needed. And I appear only in those topics that I know of.

How much conceit in one paragraph. Are you definitely only a quarter not Greek?

[Splin]

Weather, nature, what does it have to do with it? And not only I, but also many others express an alternative opinion, which is why a dispute arises in many topics. And if it does not exist, then much can be considered true, but this is not so. The Americans are still convinced that this is only their victory in the Second World War and they dropped a vigorous bomb for humane purposes. And there no one seeks the truth (middle ground), because they are so happy. After all, we are not like that. Not yet ...

[slan]

Quote: Splin

Weather, nature, what does it have to do with it?

And you think it all the same. The analogy is just complete.

Quote: Splin

And not just me, but also many others

But who is against alternative opinions? Rudeness is simply not about you.

[Splin]

Quote: slan

Rude is simply not necessary

I support!

[vlbelugin]

What does "home" mean?
And that means that I was born in Makeevka, grew up, left the army. There is the grave of my father at the end of the ends.
And now some kind of fuckers ... shout that I have nothing to do with Muscovites on this earth.
This is my home and I’ll be back there. Our miners cannot put up with traps for a long time.

[Denis]

and who, thinking or more often not thinking, yelled "Russia is robbing us!"

[esaul]

Splin, and I just read your comment and the course of the controversy with Slan. I confess I am very impressed with your style of communication and argumentation! But it seems to me that you did not quite adequately interpret the comments where opinions are expressed about the inconsistency of political power in Ukraine and the friction arising on this basis. I think the reason is that it is, more, a reaction to attacks on the internet from the part of pro-Ukrainian opponents. There are a lot of examples, both on this site, on V&M and others. The closest thing - when discussing the history of relations between Russia and Poland, a certain hero rushed to prove that the USSR is the culprit of the Second World War (almost the only one!) And his opinion is true in the last resort. And reactions to such attacks are, sometimes, too emotional, but not devoid of common sense. And one more thing: I am sure that almost everyone who writes pejoratively "Ukrainians" does not burn with hatred towards the bulk of the people, who for us is BROTHERLY! Regards, esaul:

[Splin]

I will explain in this way. Russian site and opponents from Ukraine - if you try with the stubbornness of a ram, to prove that which is unacceptable to most respondents receive a negative rating. Interpretations must be shown so that they are understood by other parties. But so we live the last 20 years. I studied at school the Soviet interpretation of the history of Ukraine. My younger brother in Suvorov (military lyceum) taught history from the textbook of a Canadian Ukrainian, who was sent to them from there in the 93rd. After breaking up with the army in the early 2000s, I already taught history at the Faculty of International Relations in the third version. And two years ago, his wife passed on the fourth interpretation of history at the state. Therefore, those who received the bulk of information over the years have views that are coordinately opposed to those now in Russia.
PS But most of the people gathered on the site with an understanding and culture of communication. I sometimes read the Radio Liberty website or news from Inter. It all starts well, and then ... Mat on the rewind. Moreover, not only Russian and Ukrainian visitors to the sites come together, but also the East and West of Ukraine (where Kiev takes most of the city of Lviv, not Donetsk)

[esaul]

Splin, and you do not go to VM? I, sometimes, to cool down, after some Gosta or Sam, "go" there. A lot of smart guys and their judgments "hang out" on this site.

[Denis]

for all my nationalism, I dare say that the fairy tale is German or Dutch

[esaul]

Vibelugin, very well noticed! Bravo, a fellow countryman in the land of Donbass! I myself lived from 5 to 17 in Donetsk!

[sirToad]

bye! Yes, my relatives live there! and the uncle deceased worked at the Zasyadko mine!

[esaul]

Sir, accept my friendly bow with the most benevolent assurances! And my relatives live there - a cousin with my niece! And friends - "in a basket" live there! I am very glad to meet you! I already wrote that we are BROTHERLY peoples and connected by blood, but we easily follow the lead of politicians (not to be confused with politicians!). I shake your hand! Best regards esaul.

[sirToad]

interchangeably, also very pleased. I will say more - I have a sister in Zhitomir. and remember about colleagues - from Uzhgorod to Murmansk and from Krasnovodsk to Khabarovsk. And in Donetsk I visited with my uncle in the year 80. I then like horror. I remember the tram was pre-war with non-automatic doors. they sold live fish at every step. The lorry on the move was remembered. And also an event! match Ararat - Shakhtar. the miners then blew the bill I don’t remember. the uncle cursed said that the judges had conspired, because the miners played harder. How they played - I remember exactly what is stronger. straight hung at the gates of the Armenians. those won by penalty. But I forgot the score.

[Superduck]

Are you just sick or living in another dimension. If only people like you would not write anything like that, there would be no reason to even think about it.
RUSSIANS, TURN OFF THE TV IN YOUR HEADS !!!

[Tolia]

"We also held gay pride parades in Moscow."

What did you do? Russian march takes place every year ...

[Denis]

Yeah! the parade did not pass!
but people in Lublin passed!

[dimarm74]

Banshee is right ..... you don’t have to go there ... These haters of Muscovites and Antesimites will dig their own grave. Oh this g .... no need to get your hands dirty

[Denis]

But will the Pindos feed such a "gift"?

but they forgot about Nuremberg

[lightforcer]

According to Huntington, Ukraine is doomed to split. Not because some Muscovites, but others Bandera. West and East belong to different civilizations.

[Tolia]

And in Russia, how many civilizations? Yes, you have half the country hates the other, Caucasians, niggers like you still call them Mirolyubovo?

[lightforcer]

One. The rest are unborn civilizations.

[fellow misha]

Yes, friends, sincerely sorry for the Ukrainians, imagine the Vlasovites walked along the Red Square in full parade, as we then lived on in our house. I will never forget the stories of my grandfather how he fought in the second shock, then he was in captivity

[Splin]

Look on the Internet, in what Russian city there is a monument to Vlasov installed? In the defense of Moscow, his merit is also there. Learn to finally divide everything not only into white and black.

[nickname bj]

The president is not a tsar and not even the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee, this is a position, the executor of the will of the "customer" ...

[Splin]

Quote: nickname b

A resident is not a tsar or even the General Secretary of the CPSU Central Committee, this is a position, an executor of the will of the "customer" ...

And I know that they are kicking, but in Russia they are so accustomed to deciding everything the most important

[zczczc]

Splin, to some extent this is correct - the peasant mows, and the king decides. Only this is correct until the wishes of the peasant and king begin to diverge greatly.

[Splin]

I would not want people in cattle Russia to consider cattle. And those who are protesting at the Manege too. In Ukraine, a small percentage of nationalists, but they have the right to their opinion and are not worth persuading them by force. You can get the opposite effect. It is necessary to prove the best standards of life. The worse the economy, the greater their power. Look at Hitler's example. And today what is happening in Scotland. And the Basques in Spain are the poorest province

[zczczc]

Splin, I agree with this, but about cattle - no.
I believe that the Russian people have the most correct attitude to the issue of powers. It is the fact that we mostly hope for a "good king" and means an intuitive understanding among the people of important things:
- trust in authority (good tsar - trust, bad - riots);
- separation of powers (in Russia as it was - the villages lived in general poorly knew who the king was now, a peasant with a plow, a king with his head);
- high demand from the king (how and what can I ask the president? He will always say that the parliament limited me. The democratic regime, the so-called one, is a regime with legalized irresponsibility not only of elites, but also of direct power. You will never come and tell the head of state that he this and that, and you tell the king (hypothetically, through a retinue) and he will have nothing to cover).

In general, the monarchy has a lot of advantages:
- the responsibility of the king;
- the enforceability of laws is much higher;
- the king does not need to lie and be perverted - you can absolutely openly and honestly execute or have mercy. And the people can see from these "point actions" - what kind of king, what his aspirations, where he leads, what, in general, will be. And in a democracy, the law is just a screen behind which cowardly politicians hide, telling the people "well, we cannot influence the press!" or "formally, he did not violate anything!" But at the same time, when they need it, bypassing any laws, they will do anything and how they want. And they will be clean.

Compare these two models of behavior - democracy emerges as a deceitful two-faced system of manipulating the consciousness of the people, and the monarchy as an open and honest way of interacting with the people. And Stalinism was, of course, a monarchy, only without the last paragraph (about lies), because the sign of socialism did not allow. But the other features of the monarchy were - from there and the effectiveness of everything.

Arguments against are very welcome. If only because there is no one trite to discuss it with. And you can call it "you" - I have enough of these you that at least here in a simple way to communicate :)

[lightforcer]

Splin,
Well, in what city is the monument to Vlasov? Pruflink in the studio.

[Splin]

lightforcer
Ask those who were detained on Manezhnaya Square.

[Splin]

In his homeland (in Nizhny Novgorod), the house in which he was born was repaired, and they decided to make the Vlasov Museum in it!

[lightforcer]

Provocation. Firstly, this is the initiative of one Moscow businessman, secondly, the people are against, and thirdly, the governor still banned.

[Splin]

So be it. But there are those who consider Vlasov a hero. Yes, he is a traitor, but when in the first months of the war, he and his people fought against the Nazis in unbearable conditions, they did not consider him such. And why he later agreed to command the ROA, no wonder. We don’t know the truth anyway soon

[ereke]

"The truth is always the only one who spoke like this Pharaoh, he was very smart and for that he was called ... Tutankhamun" V. Butusov's song came to mind (just yesterday he was celebrating 50th)
So the truth is always one and the whole truth that Vlasov cheated on his homeland and not personally the Bolsheviks or Stalin. They fought in even more unbearable conditions, and earlier in the year 41, falling into circle and breaking through to their own in complete confusion and loss of connection between parts of the Red Army, and did not change their homeland, they always knew that their homeland was in danger at the moment and their death was not in vain German and allied forces slowed down their cause with their deaths and torments, enabling the USSR to carry out the necessary mobilization actions and preparations for a more organized defense.
Vlasov surrendered an entire army corps with all the brigades and divisions on the Volkhov front at 42 in more mild conditions and even winter was not an obstacle for selected units of the red army. And the disagreeing cambrig was shot by Vlasov’s minions. Here it is true. And there is no statute of limitations for the betrayal of the MOTHERLAND and no circumstances justify the actions of the change of the motherland. And no matter what new times come and even though the Communists are no longer at the helm of power and another democratic-capitalist power, anyway, the betrayal remains a treasure, as if the ROA veterans living in Argentina are not justified, they need to be caught and shot like treason to their homeland, without any justifying and mitigating circumstances that are not provided for in this article

[Splin]

I do not condone betrayal. There is no forgiveness for this. But on our part, those who defended their homeland were spread rot not only in filtration camps. After leaving the encirclement near Lviv with a tank corps, my grandfather proved for six months that he was not a traitor. But all was a lieutenant. And what about the general.

[ereke]

you tried to justify it at the beginning and led to this, let's not take apart the wartime error and the command now from the heights of modern time, then there were hard times suspiciousness and nervousness due to the failures of the first months. The conversation was about the fact of CHANGE to the Homeland (you probably distinguish between changing your country and serving the invaders) and not just betrayal. You can betray a friend, but he can forgive if you repent. And treason on such a scale is not forgiven

[Splin]

Mentioned - treason.

[ereke]

Spleen is the name of the Ukrainian music group. Dump means you are Ukrainian? or afrorasiyan ukr. origin. Actually, I respect the Khokhlov (I’m used to calling them, no offense, the guy Dudko from my department served in the army, that’s what we called him Khakhol as a joke and not always, then I saw a film of the 9th company here in civilian life Bondarchuk-prarap was called Khokhol, probably by army always it was so glorious, he was small, though he is Kazakhstani of Ukrainian roots) I have had more contact with Ukrainians in my life and am more used to them than to Russians. And the girls I remember from my youth were Khokhlushka, one in general, blondie Dotsenko, the beauty, at least stand, even fall. And still I regret that I parted from stupidity. She was a modest girl. so I respect Ukrainians, though the Ukrainian themselves have never communicated in life, these are all Kazakhstani))

[Tyumen]

Spleen is an English word. Blues, longing.

[Splin]

Quote: Tyumen 35

Spleen is an English word. Blues, longing.

It was right when I started to write., But it makes no sense to change anything.

[esaul]

When my son was a little over a year old, reading "Doctor Moidodyr", the words: "That's why I love you! That's why I praise you!" He said: That's why I love you la! HAVLULYA for that! "I remembered this after reading ereke's comment about Ukrainians, khokhlushek, etc. Lyrics? Well, what! Plus to him, even though he told me" ... not reconciled, hostile ... "

[Denis]

him to shoot himself!

it's not just shoulder straps and rations in the sumar you put, be kind and responsible

[Staff_]

Ivan the Terrible wrote about these today's Ukrainian fascists: "All the holy fools and the poor should be exiled to the edge - there they belong to fools"

[lightforcer]

This is not about them, the lands of the ukrofashists historically belonged to Poland after the collapse of Russia.

[stas52]

By the way, it was the outskirts, and not Ukraine, who correctly noticed. Well, never in history, except for the newest, such a state. And as for western Ukraine, before the fortieth, they were enslaved by the Poles and the union freed them, maybe again they want a yoke around the neck. By the way, if you dig around, you will find that the Ukrainians did not count the Ukrainians as people, put them on a par with the pigs.

[Splin]

There was no USA until the end of the 18th century. So what? Over time, it became almost a normal country. And South Sudan appeared three months ago.
Indeed, in the 39th year the Soviet army was met in Bukovina as liberators. But how it was necessary to turn people away from themselves for 2 years, so that they considered the Nazis as such in the summer of the 41st and met them with flowers. Then, finding out the truth that this mode is even more terrifying.

[Tolia]

But now Ukrainians are very respected in contrast to Russians (by the way, they also do not call Russians Slavs, they say ugrofin or just Russian-Mongols)

[Tolia]

... The difficulty with understanding the Russians is that we do not realize the fact of their belonging not to Europe, but to Asia, and therefore they think differently. We are not able to understand the Russians, just as we cannot understand the Chinese or Japanese, and having rich experience with them, I must say that I have no particular desire to understand them, except for understanding how much lead and iron are required to exterminate them . In addition to other Asian qualities of their character, the Russians do not respect human life - they are bitches, barbarians and chronic alcoholics ... "

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Is this someone's quote or what?

[Tolia]

Show erudition), one famous military commander ...

[esaul]

Look you ...! It turns out that Goebbels did not kill all of his children ...! Tolya's granddaughter has been drawn! That is disgusting, that is, "joy" - what a! And what a persistent heredity ...!

[stas52]

The only positive example is Australia, a state of criminals, but it doesn’t reach anyone and does not impose its opinion.

[lightforcer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aHlGG_Nk7is

[stas52]

looked, this is an ordinary banter, men just have fun

[APASUS]

Sitting on two chairs at the same time - tear your ass!

[URB]

stupid nationalists ...... and, by the way, not the whole west is =))

[Tolia]

Petr Khomyakov: “Wed @ Naya Raska will drown in shit”!



The political testament of Professor Peter Khomyakov, one of the leaders of the Russian resistance

It means that the FSB managed to lure me to Raska under this or that political or personal pretext. Such is the fate of the Russian patriot. Before me, this path to the FSB pre-trial detention center was Savenkov, Tyutyunnyk, Penkovsky. Does this mean that I, as Savenkov once said, should “respect the mind and power of the GPU (FSB)”?

No way! The GPU (FSB) in its fight against patriots uses the same technique - fraud on trust. Of course, I knew that Putin’s bloodhounds were snooping around in my midst. In court, if he is a vowel, I will name their names. But there are situations when a Russian is obliged to share the fate of his people.

The collusion of the Kremlin dwarfs and the attempts of the larger ones to climb into the presidency again - this is the collapse of Russia that I predicted. My arrest, as well as the introduction of censorship, gagging users of computer networks is a fear of truth. I am glad that they are afraid of me and you, my dear associates, and will try to match my reputation.

Match yours and you! Distribute my works. Being in immigration, I worked hard and fruitfully. My articles of varying degrees of completeness will be published on the sites of the Russian Resistance.

There is a positive side to my detention. Now I have an alibi. Do not hang on me everything that will happen to Raska in the near future. My experience with systems analysis tells me that a lot will happen. I ask you to consider the version of my suicide, death from a heart attack or cooperation with the regime as a dirty provocation of the Putin regime. Russians don't give up so fast!

I want to say goodbye to the words of the immortal Chubchik:

And what about Siberia? I'm not afraid of Siberia!
Siberia, after all, is also Russian land.
So curl, curly lump curly,
Be as cheerful as I am!

***

Recall, on September 27, 2011, in the Yaroslavl region of the Russian Federation, FSB officers arrested one of the leaders of the Russian resistance, the ideologist of the Russian revolution, the leader of the International Russians for the UPA movement, Professor Peter Khomyakov. The court chose a preventive measure - detention.

Professor Peter Mikhailovich Khomyakov (born April 17, 1950, Moscow) is a world-famous scientist and systems analyst, author of works on the crisis of the modern Russian state. Many consider him the author of the opposition political program National Liberation of the Russian People (NORNA).

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Quote: Tolya

Petr Khomyakov: “Wed @ Naya Raska will drown in shit”!

It shines more Khomyakov.

Quote: Tolya

The political testament of Professor Peter Khomyakov, one of the leaders of the Russian resistance

Political testament of a political corpse. Visiting in LJ from Georgia.

Quote: Tolya

It means that the FSB managed to lure me to Rashka under some political or personal pretext. Such is the fate of the Russian patriot.

Why was he lured out, stupid? Himself evil zombie ... would sit in Georgia ... It's warm there ...

Quote: Tolya

Being in immigration, I worked a lot and fruitfully.

Another Ulyanov found? From Georgia in a sealed wagon? Beauty ... But Ilyich, at least, approached funding issues normally, did not post web-wallets.

In short, it's clear ... UPA got out. The fact that there is a movement "Russians for the UPA" shows only one thing - the family has its black sheep.
Tolyan, you do not push too much, remember about 1949, how it ended. So, just in case. History rarely allows for repetition.

[Tolia]

The fact that the UPA fought happened! Ukraine is an independent state, time will pass and it will be cleansed of the NKVD sons who are pulling it to Asia. And for you personally, I will inform you of the last case of a clash with the UPA in 1964 and not in 1949, not to mention cases of uprisings in the camps. Where UPA fighters appeared in the Gulag camps, the lessons immediately became quieter than water, which saved a lot of Russian dissidents, which was written by the way Solzhenitsyn.

[Roman Skomorokhov]

In 1949 broke up. In 56, the last ones were finished / annoyed.

Quote: Tolya

Ukraine is an independent state, time will pass and it will be cleansed of the NKVD sons who are pulling her into Asia

Do not strain so, not in your life.

Quote: Tolya

That for fighting the UPA has happened!

Yeah, "We plowed," said the fly, sitting on the horse's seat.

Quote: Tolya

Where the UPA fighters appeared in the GULAG camps, the urki immediately became quieter than the water saved a lot of Russian dissidents, which Solzhenitsyn wrote by the way.

In-in ... One word -. If this bearded jerk would have crashed somewhere there, there would be more benefit. There is nothing clever to do ...

[Denis]

Roofing roofing is wrong, the collision, maybe not at all large-scale, I remember in 1997, when two fagots in independent "confederates" on our Nevsky ...
and then the guys did it later !?

[chehywed]

Tolya, in Ukraine already edited Solzhenitsyn? Well, you know the measure of spruce!

[Tolia]

Solzhenitsyn about Ukraine


And the Ukrainians? We have not said for a long time - "Ukrainian nationalists", we
we only speak "Bandera", and this word has become so abusive with us,
that no one even thinks to understand the essence. (We also say - "bandits" because
the rule we have learned that everyone in the world who kills for us are "partisans"
and everyone who kills us are "bandits", starting with the Tambov peasants 1921
of the year.)

But the essence is that although once, in the Kiev period, we were one
people, but since then it has been torn apart, and for centuries our lives have gone apart and at random,
habits, languages. The so-called "reunion" was very difficult, although
maybe a sincere attempt by someone to return to the previous fraternity. But
we have spent poorly three centuries since then. There were no such figures in Russia who
b thought about how to bring the stout 'Ukrainians and Russians together, how to smooth out the scar
between them. (And if there had not been a scar, they would not have become in the spring of 1917
formed Ukrainian committees and Parliament later.)

Before coming to power, the Bolsheviks accepted the issue without difficulty. AT
On June 7, 1917, Lenin wrote to Pravda: “we are considering Ukraine and other
non-Great Russian regions as annexed by the Russian tsar and capitalists. "
He wrote this when the Central Council already existed. And November 2, 17
was adopted "Declaration of the rights of the peoples of Russia" - is it not a joke? after all not
in deception they said that the peoples of Russia have the right to self-determination up to
branches? Six months later, the Soviet government requested the Kaiser
Germany to help Soviet Russia conclude peace and determine
exact borders with Ukraine - and on June 14, 1918, Lenin signed such a peace with
Hetman Skoropadsky. Thus, he showed that he was quite reconciled with
separation of Ukraine from Russia - even if Ukraine is at the same time
monarchical!

But it’s strange. The Germans had just fallen before the Entente (which could not have
influence on the principles of our attitude to Ukraine!), followed by the hetman, and
our strengths turned out to be larger than that of Petlyura (here's another curse:
"Petliurists". And these were Ukrainian citizens and peasants who wanted
to live without us) - we immediately crossed the border we recognized and
imposed their power on half-brothers. True, another 15-20 years then we
intensely and even with pressure they played on the Ukrainian mov and inspired the brothers that
they are completely independent and can be separated from us at any time. But how
only they wanted to do this at the end of the war, we announced them
"Bandera" began to catch, torture, execute and send to the camps. (AND
the "Bandera", like the "Petliurists", are all the same Ukrainians who do not want
someone else’s power. Learning that Hitler does not bring them the promised freedom, they are against
Hitler fought the whole war, but we are silent about it, it is also disadvantageous to us,
like the Warsaw Uprising of 1944)

Why are we so annoyed by Ukrainian nationalism, the desire of our brothers
to speak and bring up children, and to write signs on your mov? Even Michael
Bulgakov (in the White Guard) succumbed to a wrong feeling here. Since we are not
merged to the end, since we are different in something (it’s enough that they feel it
they are smaller!) - very bitter! but since this is so? time is lost and
most missed in the 30s and 40s, exacerbated something most not with
king, and after the king! - Why are we so annoyed by their desire to separate? Us
sorry for Odessa beaches? Cherkasy fruits?

It pains me to write about this: Ukrainian and Russian are connected with me in
blood, and in the heart and in thoughts. But a lot of experience in friendly communication with
Ukrainians in the camps revealed to me how their pain was. Our generation is not
Avoid paying for senior mistakes.

Stamp your foot and shout "mine!" is the easiest way. Immeasurable
harder to say: "who wants to live - live!" Not even at the end of the twentieth century
live in that imaginary world in which our last broke his head
the near emperor. Surprisingly, the predictions did not come true
Advanced Teaching that nationalism is fading. In the age of atom and cybernetics, he
somehow bloomed. And the time is right for us, like it or not, -
pay on all bills of self-determination, of independence - by ourselves
pay, not wait for us to be burned at the stake, to drown in rivers and
decapitate. Whether we are a great nation, we must prove not by vastness
territory, not by the number of wards of nations, - but by the grandeur of actions. AND
the depth of plowing what remains for us minus the lands that live with
they will not want us.

With Ukraine it will be extremely painful. But you need to know their total intensity
now. If it hasn’t been settled over the centuries, it means that it has been prudent
us. We are obliged to give the decision to ourselves - federalists or separatists,
which of them will convince whom. Do not give in - madness and cruelty. And the softer
the more tolerant, the more explanatory we are now, the more hope
restore unity in the future.

Let them live, try. They will quickly feel that not all problems
are decided by the department.


A.I.Solzhenitsyn. The Gulag Archipelago, Volume 3.




According to eyewitnesses, the first organized wave of resistance in the Stalinist concentration camps began precisely from the moment the insurgents arrived there: “They did a lot for this whole movement, and they moved the cart. The Dubovsk stage brought the rebellion bacillus to us. Young, strong guys, taken simply from the partisan path, they ... examined, were horrified by this hibernation of slavery - and reached for the knife “(A. Solzhenitsyn: GULAG Archipelago). The wave of mass riots that swept the camps of Siberia and Central Asia resulted in a softening of the regime, an end to the terror of criminals against political prisoners, international publicity, and the awakening of human dignity among the “convicts” terrorized by the regime.

[Denis]

what they then thought is really so important, because "... once betrayed ..."
and in Nuremberg they decided who the Nazis and their all kinds of "six" were

[ZHORA]

Whom whom? Did they betray? Partagition must be filtered, they were part of the USSR for less than 50 years, and all the time they fought for independence ... and when compared with Moscow, by analogy, she betrayed the golden horde ...

[chehywed]

"I do not know where - how (they began to cut in all the special camps, even in a disabled
Spassk!), And with us it began with the arrival of the Dubovsk stage - mainly
Western Ukrainians, OUN. For all this movement, they are everywhere
did a lot, and they touched the cart. Dubovsky stage brought to us
rebel bacillus.
Young, strong guys, taken directly from the partisan trail, they are in
They looked around Dubovka, were horrified by this hibernation and slavery - and reached for the knife. "

Tolya, didn’t you take a master class from Rezun? Here Solzhenitsyn writes not about resistance to the regime, but about nightly killings.

[Tolia]

If the borzoi were cutting their lessons and at night also ... the borzel administration flared uprisings ....

Kengir uprising - uprising of political prisoners in the 3rd lag. department of the Steppe Camp in the village of Kengir, now the city of Zhezkazgan May 16 - June 26, 1954. About 5,2 thousand prisoners took part in the uprising, most of them - Ukrainians convicted of military, serious and political crimes, as well as Russians, Baltic states, Jews , Belarusians and others. Prisoners demanded a meeting with representatives of the Soviet government. The Deputy Minister of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the USSR promised to do everything, thus paying off the vigilance of the rebels, and ordered to storm the camp. In total, 46% of Ukrainians were detained in Steplag - 9596 people, among whom there were many former members of the OUN and UPA fighters, 22,4% of the "forest brothers" from the Baltic - 4637 people, 12,8% of Russians - 2661 people).


Due to the limited availability of sources, the role of various prisoners in leading the uprising is difficult to objectively evaluate. It is common for some authors to attach greater importance to Hirsch Keller, a Jew who fought in the ranks of the UPA, for others to the Ukrainian nationalist Mikhailo Soroka, and for others (Solzhenitsyn, very subjectively) to Soviet officer Kapiton Kuznetsov.

On the 40th day, the uprising was crushed by the use of military force, including tanks; however, according to the testimonies of the participants in the events, hundreds of people were killed.

[Tolia]

Hot summer 53: what is said in a whisper, but what is not said at all

After the uprising of hundreds of prisoners in the camp of Ust-Usinsk in 1942, various riots and protests took place in the Gulag often. But with the departure of Stalin, they quickly gained a new scope and scale. On May 25, 1953, a riot began in six camps near Norilsk, which lasted 72 days. At least 20 thousand people participated in the strike. More than half of them are activists of the anti-communist, national liberation movement in western Ukraine, usually in the Soviet-post-Soviet press they are called Bandera. The young guys had military training, good physical fitness, trusted each other. They organized the first mass protest. Among the leaders of the riot was the former leader of the youth patriotic organization of the west of Ukraine, now alive Yevgeny Hrytsak. The prisoners presented the administration with both domestic, economic, and political demands.
Norilsk had no time to end when in August 1953 a new, even more powerful uprising arose in the Vorkuta region. The protest was well organized, so it’s extremely difficult to get information about it, the documents are still classified. But I was lucky, I listened and remembered the speech of one of the leaders of the Vorkuta people, Igor Dobroshtan, at the first Memorial conference in Moscow in October 1989. In combination with other sources, the following picture emerges of this rebellion. The core of the rebels were former Vlasovites along with Ukrainian anti-communist patriots. Such a union was too tough for either the camp administration or thieves in law. Secretly making piercing objects, the prisoners attacked the guards, destroyed it and took possession of the machine guns of the Vohrovites. One by one, all brigades were freed. Vlasov residents decided to move to Vorkuta in order to capture a powerful urban radio station and turn to the country. On the way, 10 thousand convicts freed several more camps. The NKVD units sent for interception could no longer stop the 100th convoy. Tanks directed against the rebels are stuck in the tundra. And only military aviation managed to stop and disperse the rebels 20 kilometers from the city. By this time, the entire Vorkuta party state activist was running or was urgently evacuated. According to I. Dobroshtan, at the first stage of the operation, at the request of the headquarters, some of the leaders were taken by plane to Moscow for negotiations with the highest party leadership.
The third in time and significance - the Kengir uprising - began in May 1954 and lasted 40 days. Information about him was more widespread, since Kengir was described by Solzhenitsyn in the “Gulag Archipelago”. Almost half of the rebels were members of the OUN and the UPA (leader - Mikhail Keller, a Jew from the UPA), and former “forest brothers” from the Baltic states and Vlasovites also participated.
It is not difficult to understand that Nikita Khrushchev, who received relevant information from the KGB and, possibly, from the headquarters itself, was left with despair. The power machine crumbled right before his eyes. It became clear: one or two uprisings, and the regime fell into collapse. Neither vkhory, nor taiga, nor the Kremlin walls will save the nomenclature. The authorities were forced to immediately stop the repression machine - new arrests ceased, a number of camp construction hastily stopped, and the dissolution and dismantling of the Gulag began.
It was this process that unfolded in the summer and fall of 1953. I emphasize that the significance of the uprisings led by Gritsak and Dobroshtan was not just the dissolution of the two links of the Gulag. The prisoners' revolution forced the authorities to dismantle the entire system of terror that had been created since October 1917. And by the time of the opening of the XX Congress, when the nomenclature was first proposed to officially condemn the Stalinist crimes, while preserving the name of Lenin untouchable, almost all political prisoners were already at large.

[stalker]

A Jew from the UPA? 0_o

[Tolia]

"A Jew from the UPA? 0_o"

That it was not indicated in the "patriot manual"?

Moisey Fishbein: "The Ukrainian Insurgent Army was the only army that fought for the independence of Ukraine. And provocations, nonsense, as if the UPA were destroying Jews. Tell me how the UPA could destroy Jews when the Jews were in the UPA? I was familiar with the Jews. who served in the UPA. For example, with Dr. Abraham Sterzer, after the war he lived in Israel. And Samuel Neumann (pseudo "Maksimovich")? And Shai Varma (pseudo "Violinist")? And Roman Vinnitsky (pseudo "Sam")? others? And Stella Krenzbach? Was born in Bolekhov. The daughter of a rabbi, a Zionist, was friends with the daughter of a Greek Catholic priest. In 1939 she graduated from the Faculty of Philosophy of Lviv University. Since 1943 she was in the UPA. Rozhnyatove. Prison, bullying, torture, death sentence. She was freed by the rebels. In the summer of 1945 she went with the rebels to the Carpathians. October 1945, 1 Stella Krenzbach made her way into the British occupation zone in Austria. Reached Israel. Slave. otala in the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Jewish State. In her memoirs, Stella Krenzbach wrote: "By the fact that I live today and have given all my strength to free Israel for 1946 years, I am grateful, probably only to God and the UPA. I became a member of the heroic UPA on November 38, 7.11.1943. In our group, I counted 12 Jews, 8 of them are doctors ... "I hope: the Ukrainian state will call them all by name. I hope that they, those who were not ethnic Ukrainians who fought for the independence of Ukraine, the Ukrainian state will call its heroes. "

[Denis]

Quote: Tolya

I hope: those who were not ethnic Ukrainians who fought for the independence of Ukraine, the Ukrainian state will call their heroes. "

I wonder if the author will venture to voice this on the current streets of Haifa or Tel Aviv?

[chehywed]

Tolya, you again distort. You are at the head of the camp riots Bandera and "forest brothers". And where are the Russians, yesterday's front-line soldiers?

An example of the Norilsk uprising shows that the resistance in the Gulag in the 1946-1952 years, despite all its sacrifices and all the tragedy, was not in vain.,
In September 1952, a stage of 1200 political prisoners, participants in recent protests in Ekibastuz and Tayshet, arrived in Norilsk Gorlag. At that time, the number of prisoners in the camp, consisting of 6 units, was 30-40 thousand people. The new arrivals were scattered in various departments, and they became a kind of catalyst for further events.

The Kengir camp camp of Steplag became the first free territory of Russia after the so-called Great Patriotic War. This uprising is hardly worth describing, since Alexander Isaevich said almost everything about him - you can only clarify the details. Prisoners of Kangir creatively mastered the experience of Norilsk, so a single leadership of the uprising arose in the camp. For the first time during a camp uprising, political prisoners managed to subordinate criminals to their will, whom the leadership of the Ministry of Internal Affairs placed in the camp in order to prevent popular resistance.
We will not describe the stages of the uprising that began on May 16 — read the Archipelago. The main thing is that public administration has been established. For six weeks, people in the camp lived as they wanted: services were held, amateur performances worked, prisoners and convicts entered into marriages, which were blessed by priests of different faiths. According to some reports, one of the leaders of the uprising, the Lithuanian Y. Knopmus, managed to assemble a radio transmitter and establish communication with the West.
Several conspiracy centers were created to lead the uprising. Knowing about the introduction of KGB agents into their ranks, the prisoners adopted the experience of clandestine organizations (NTS, UPA). Colonel of the Soviet Army K.I. became the official leader of the rebels. Kuznetsov (1913-to 1991 gg.). Many ethnic groups of the then existing USSR (Russians, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Jews, Lithuanians, Estonians, Latvians, etc.) managed to unite in this uprising. It should be noted that assistance to the rebels came from outside: the Chechens deported to Kazakhstan supplied the prisoners with bread.
This uprising was defeated, and the government was forced to attract a selective division named after Dzerzhinsky. Following Solzhenitsyn, we will not talk about the sacrificial struggle of prisoners who decided to become free people. Honor and praise to these participants in the popular resistance and a low bow to them.
So, the Kengir uprising marked the end of the Stalinist Gulag. But he collapsed, not only because the prisoners fought against him, but also because of his terrible inefficiency.

[Tolia]

Kuznetsov is found only in Solzhenitsyn’s, there were a little more than 1 out of 10 Russians ... I think he was introduced by the patriot Solzhenitsyn to somehow highlight the role of Russian political prisoners who were oppressed by thieves and the administration before the mass injection into the GULAG of the UPA ...

[chehywed]

The national composition of prisoners on 1 January 1939 year
According to a number of studies on the 1 of January 1939 in the Gulag camps, the national composition of prisoners was distributed as follows:
• Russians — 830 (491%)
• Ukrainians — 181 (905%)
• Belarusians — 44 (785%)
• Tatars — 24 (894%)
• Uzbeks - 24 (499%)
• Jews - 19 (758%)
• Germans - 18 (572%)
• Kazakhs — 17 (123%)
• Poles - 16 (860%)
• Georgians - 11 (723%)
• Armenians - 11 (064%)
• Turkmens — 9 (352%)
• other nationalities - 8,06%.
According to the data cited in the same work, on January 1 of 1951 in the camps and colonies the number of prisoners was:
• Russians — 1 (405/511 — 805%)
• Ukrainians — 506 (221/362 — 643%)
• Belarusians — 96 (471/63 — 863%)
• Tatars - 56 (928/28 - 532%)
• Lithuanians - 43 (016/35 - 773%)
• Germans - 32 (269/21 - 096%)
• Uzbeks - 30 (029/14 - 137%)
• Latvians - 28 (520/21 - 689%)
• Armenians - 26 (764/12 - 029%)
• Kazakhs - 25 (906/12 - 554%)
• Jews - 25 (425/14 - 374%)
• Estonians - 24 (618/18 - 185%)
• Azerbaijanis - 23 (704/6 - 703%)
• Georgians - 23 (583/6 - 968%)
• Poles - 23 (527/19 - 184%)
• Moldovans - 22 (725/16 - 008%)
• other nationalities - about 5%.

So where is 1 from 10? There were more than half of Russians!

[Tolia]

In those camps where there were uprisings, Ukrainians made up the majority .... where there were no Russian uprisings, they were oppressed by thieves and the administration ...

"In total, 46% of Ukrainians were kept in the Steplag - 9596 people, among whom were many former members of the OUN and UPA fighters," forest brothers "from the Baltic region 22,4% - 4637 people, 12,8% Russians - 2661 people)."

In fact, the massive injection of former insurgents into the Gulag "blew up" the GULAG ...

[Tolia]

So, in the places of detention there were 2 prisoners, and another 500 special settlers, also under the jurisdiction of the Gulag, should be added to them. Together, they represented a serious problem in terms of maintaining discipline and maintaining constant supervision. In 000, the Minister of the Interior, General Krugloy, worried about the constant decline in production using forced labor, began a wide-ranging examination of the state of the Gulag. The commissions sent to the field witnessed an extremely difficult situation.
The "special camps" contained the new "political" that appeared after 1945: Ukrainian nationalists and Baltic states, former partisans, defeated and captured on their territory; “Alien elements” from the republics newly included in the USSR, real or imaginary “collaborators” and other “traitors to the motherland”. All these were more clearly defined categories of enemies, in contrast to the “enemies of the people” of the 30s — the old party cadres, most often convinced that their conclusion was the result of some monstrous mistake. New political prisoners were sentenced to twenty or twenty-five years, with no hope of early release. There were no criminals in the special regime camps, which made it possible to start resistance, a rebellion against the authorities. As Alexander Solzhenitsyn emphasized, the presence of criminals, or rather a mixture of criminals with political ones, was the main obstacle to the development of solidarity among prisoners. Ukrainians and Balts with extensive experience in creating the underground were extremely active. Refusal of work, hunger strike, group escape, riots became more frequent. As studies of the events in the Gulag for 1950-1952, which have not yet been completely completed, show, many riots and serious strikes took place there, in which hundreds of prisoners took part.

[chehywed]

Have you read the entire "Archipelago", or just where is it written about Bandera? Solzhenitsyn was in a "special camp", was he the only one Russian?

[Tolia]

The fact is that where there were the most massive uprisings of Norilsk, Vorkuta, Kenigir, Ukrainians made up the majority ...

[chehywed]

Tolya, I probably understand your desire to prove that Western Ukrainians are the most heroic and warlike. I come from there myself, but I grew up in Russia. Therefore, I consider all the Eastern Slavs to be Russian (and myself too). And I do not need to invent the history of my Motherland, it is already replete with heroic and dramatic events. It seems to me that for years you are still young. Therefore, you still do not understand much. Namely: someone really needs to drive a wedge between the Russians, and so far it works. The older generation has some kind of immunity against this, so the main task is to trash the brains of youth in Ukraine, Russia and Belarus. After all, if we unite again, the potential of such a state will increase by several orders of magnitude, and the West does not want this. Beggars and gnawing with each other, we are nicer for them than the strong and proud of their Great Power. Think at your leisure.

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Solzhenitsyn is a Russian patriot ... survived.
Ladushki, a lecture on the resistance of the UPA heard / read.

Tolyan, would you go to x% y.

We are here somehow without the Bandera-Goebbels creeps decide who is the hero and who.

[SVD]

Damn, union-union. Feed your oligarch thieves - the back is cracking, so also Khokhlyatsky - so in general the back will tear! Give at least fat to eat, do not meddle with your alliances! Look at chocks in Chechnya loot pumped our shit-bucks - they are on the bones of our soldiers dancing lezginka, so we still put a break on the neck of loafers, and they will have to feed. In Soviet times, asphalt was built in almost all the republics at the expense of the central part of Russia, gas was laid, infrastructure, factories, factories, schools, hospitals were built - so these Russian bastards were called invaders. Now, slowly, Russia began to rise from its knees - immediately an alliance! Brothers forever!

[jamert]

In Soviet times, asphalt was built in almost all the republics at the expense of the central part of Russia, gas was laid, infrastructure, factories, factories, schools, hospitals were built - so these Russian bastards were called invaders.

So why do you want these bastards-parasites back to the Union? And our independence is always obs .... .... you? We have lived without you for 20 years and will live another 200. So no - do not give.

[baluru72]

And why do you think that you lived without us?

[kesa1111]

Based on the materials of "Soldier of Fortune": volunteers from UNA UNSO fought both Chechens against us. A street is named after one of them (he ambushed a company of the Airborne Forces). The story of the Holodomor is also revealing. Well, God be their judge. But here: in the Vykhino market, it is clearly not Ukrainians who sell Ukrainian goods. I asked, from Belarus there is a Ukry disappeared somewhere. A year ago there were.

[URB]

Quote: kesa1111

volunteers from the UNA UNSO fought both Chechen against us

hah)) smacks of delirium ..... you believe more

[Splin]

There were such, I talked with them. Ideological zombies. But didn’t the Slavs cut Bosco in Croatia to Muslims? Or the MiG pilots in Nagorno-Karabakh in Transnistria are also not Slavs by nationality. Nationality has nothing to do with it. Moral education is the price.

[kesa1111]

There were photos, and the magazine itself is a solid company.

[Pol]

"Now Russia has slowly begun to rise from its knees"
Has become, will rise and rise !!! And not a single mongrel dare to open his mouth !!!!

It inspired an analogy with the attacks of hyenas on a buffalo. Each dog bites from the pack, it seems not very much, but over time, the buffalo weakens and falls.

So, we began to stick patches on wounds faster than bites (which does not please many)! It's time to scatter hyenas in holes !!!!!!!

[Denis]

are on the Leningrads, busy with true purpose
all from 30 $

[jamert]

Vitrenko is a Ukrainian politician with a zero rating. She even cannot get to the regional council in her native Sumy region. And on this site it forever leads as an example.

[Splin]

I raised this question at the very beginning. Why only her?

[Sobibor]

0,3% of the rating is a politician?

[mind1954]

Politics is a concentrated expression of the economy!

They work at home for the crumbs, and go to the "Sabbath" for large
money, by home standards.
Currently there are 7.0 million shabashniki, mainly from
western regions of Ukraine, located in Poland, Czech Republic,
Italy, Spain, etc. , 1.5 million in the Russian Federation.
Everyone in "Europe" is in an illegal position.
Passports at home, there are villages where only
grandchildren, granddaughters, grandfathers, grandmothers.
It is this audience that is manipulated by the "orange"
Yulia and Yushchenko: If we join the WTO and NATO, then we are very
will soon be admitted to "Europe", and the fact that as a result the economy will collapse,
never mind. You can all rush to a legal position in
"Europe" "sabbat" for big money and get big
allowances in "euros". They are also trying to disturb the people in
Belarus. And, meanwhile, even Turkey is not going to accept
to "Europe" soon.
That's why Ukraine is hanging out like a hole in an ice hole,
and how long this will continue is unknown.
This is how politics grows out of the economy!

[Splin]

If you approach with your head, you can work perfectly at home. I know for myself.

[Roman Skomorokhov]

Quote: mind1954

You can all rush to the legal position in
"Europe" "sabbat" for big money and get big
allowances in "euros"

Yeah, the Romanians thought so too ... Remember how it ended? Sarkozy shop closed at one time. And - back to their homeland.

[SL.Kocegar]

Russian asks Ukrainian:
- Is it true that Ukraine is now a separate state?
- Truth! We have our own flag, coat of arms and anthem!
- And your language?
- Yes, Ukrainian Mova!
- And how is the hand in Ukrainian?
- Arm.
- And the leg?
- Leg.
- And the ass?
- Fuck.
- And what, because of one battle you have your own flag, coat of arms and anthem?

[Splin]

Nice anecdote. And you talk to Ukrainians, you won’t understand. In the early 90s, my cousin came to Zaporozhye from Mozhaisk to attend the funeral of my grandfather. So he did not understand the surzhik either. And a couple of years ago I was walking from the seaport, an elderly couple was standing in the passage. Then they said they were from Kaluga. Stuck. The sign is written in English and state (in misto - it means "to the city"). So they stood for 10 minutes until they knew how to get out into the city.
Languages ​​must be learned!

[SL.Kocegar]

Khokhlyatsky nationalism, a contagious thing. Recently a childhood friend arrived (he moved to Ukraine for family reasons) and began to explain to us what Muscovites were. If honestly, we were dumbfounded (His grandfather is drilled)

[Splin]

Quote: SL.Kocegar

(His grandfather is drilled)

Put a plus sign, a great example. But it is necessary to clarify. This is not nationalism, for that form of regime provides for a titular nation - but in Ukraine there is none. What they say there is is just a bunch of idiots saying. Well, a big bunch. Most likely he supported that form of government and organization, the country that exists today.

[Denis]

joke from life
We were looking for Budevelnikov street in Kiev, and for a long time, until we said, "guys, do not shrink, ask" Builders street "

hamsters and eat a hamster
yes forgive me for the details, who looked at a friend when she takes "by the cheek"? that's right, the same hamster, only worse
and in the spirit of trash

[vlbelugin]

That's interesting with these Ukrainians.
We have a third Belarusian people. From them no nasty things are heard in the address of the Russians.
He himself served there for 18 years and can’t remember what is negative about Belarus.
I consider the main property of BELARUS his people.
Remember, even in Soviet times, there were plenty of jokes and sayings about Ukrainians, but not about Bellarussians. At least I have not heard.
That there was not that Russian or Soviet power?
That there are no western regions that were under the Poles?
In short, God had three sons: Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine, wherever you go.

[Tolia]

And how many Russian jokes about Belarusians and Ukrainians ...

But Belarusians celebrate victory every year near Orsha)

Victory in this battle is the largest in Belarusian military history. On September 8, 1514, the 30-strong army of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania under the command of the hetman Konstantin Ostrozhsky defeated the army of the Moscow Principality, which was three times larger in number. Even in one of the Russian (!) Historical reference books, the Battle of Orsha is one of the hundred greatest battles in European history.

The battle of Orsha decided the fate of the independence of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and for many decades stopped the Russian expansion into our lands. The importance of this battle for us also lies in the fact that Belarusians, as a rule, gained other major victories with the support of the armies of other states, and the success of 1514 was wholly and completely at the expense of our ancestors. In addition, thanks to the image of this battle by an unknown artist, made several years later, we were able to learn about the white-red-white colors of the flag of the cavalry of the Grand Duchy.

By the way, the Ukrainian hetman Konstantin Ostrozhsky after this battle received the nickname "Scipio-Russian" As you can see Muscovy was not attributed to Rus then by contemporaries))))

[Alexei]

Tolya, about the victory near Orsha is this anecdote?) Cool)

[baluru72]

Listen to Tolya, honestly, you don’t understand what your head is like, fucked up, clogged up? And, damn it, where did Russia come from? Look at the map of those times ,,, I’m Russian, according to my passport, my last name is Ukrainian, I’m Kazakh Kubansky. Is it divided here? Russia is Ukraine, which has grown over time, Then, when there were times of turmoil, the Poles conquered the west of Russia ,,, Over time they returned ,,, and didn’t just return ,,, they themselves asked, because the Poles were tearing us, or you, ,, Why do I say so --- because I do not perceive Russia, Belarus, and Ukraine as something separate ,,, Well, I can’t ,,, Relatives both here and there ,,, I can joke like the Kuban Cossack about Khokhlov (although I myself am him) and about the Great Russians--, I’m a Nazi face, sov (because I myself am also him) In Europe it’s easier --- there are more or less nations divided, and where we are, in principle, brothers, try to duplicate this ideology ,,, Do not confuse internecine wars, and wars of conquest ,,, Never, NEVER WILL A SLAVE BE SURE TO LIVE, will not give, enemies will not give ,,, will litter, buy ,,, By as in those periods when we are strong, we are changing the world ,,, For the better or not, but changing ,,, And always with great progress ,,,

[chehywed]

Tolya, are you sure that it is the Belarusians who celebrate this date?

The battle of Orsha is the battle that took place on 8 of September 1514 during the Russian-Lithuanian war of 1512-1522 years, between the troops of the Russian state under the leadership of the commanders Ivan Chelyadnin and Mikhail Bulgakov, and the combined forces of the army of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and the Kingdom of Poland under the general leadership of the great hetman Lithuanian Konstantin Ostrozhsky and court hetman Janusz Sverchovsky. The battle ended with the tactical victory of the Polish-Lithuanian army and the retreat of the Russian army, however, the strategic importance of the battle was modest. The goal of the Polish-Lithuanian campaign — the return of the just-lost Smolensk — was not achieved, and success was limited only to the occupation of several small border fortresses. However, the battle was widely used by King Sigismund I for propaganda purposes to strengthen his authority in Europe.

It should be added that the number of troops was approximately equal, according to 12-15 thousand

[Roman Skomorokhov]

I wonder, how many Belarusians celebrate this date?
10? 20? 30? And Belarusians?
Specially climbed into the official calendar of holidays ... There is no such there.

And then, if such a booze went: ON - the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. This is clear. And what about Belarusians? Independent principality in the composition of the ON?

Quote: Tolya

The battle of Orsha decided the fate of the independence of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania and for many decades stopped Russian expansion into our lands.

Stopped, you say? And where is the great principality now?
Turn to historians ...

"The Grand Duchy of Lithuania is a state that existed in the northern part of Eastern Europe in 1230-1569."
"In 1569, the Union of Lublin was concluded, which finally formalized the merger of Poland and the Grand Duchy of Lithuania. The head of the new state was the Polish king Sigismund August (1548-1572). From that moment the independent history of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania can be considered finished."

Is that enough? You stopped the expansion of the Russians, but the Poles were no longer enough. Gobbled up with giblets. Congratulations.

Quote: Tolya

The Battle of Orsha decided the fate of the independence of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania

Yes, I delayed the full kapets on 55 years. Nothing will pull.

Quote: Tolya

The importance for us of this battle is also in the fact that other major victories of Belarusians, as a rule, were won with the support of the armies of other states.

Well, let's be honest ... The owner (Lithuanian, Polish) just scored as many slaves as he needed.

Quote: Tolya

and the success of 1514 of the year is entirely counted by our ancestors.

I would ask to clarify, and who are these ancestors? There, in the documents written about the combined forces of Poland and the Lithuanian princes. About Belarusians somehow not a word. So who are the ancestors, the Poles or Lithuanians?

Quote: chehywed

The goal of the Polish-Lithuanian campaign — the return of Smolensk, which had just been lost, was not achieved, and success was limited only to the occupation of several small border fortresses. Nevertheless, the battle was widely used by King Sigismund I for propaganda purposes to strengthen his authority in Europe.

Propaganda worked already then! Again it is not clear, Sigismund, the Polish king! What joy are the Poles - the ancestors of Belarus?

Yes, I also wonder WHAT one must be a Belarusian patriot to celebrate the victory of the Poles and Litvin ...
Probably the same Russian as those who celebrate the birthdays of Hitler. The analogy is somewhat drawn, but understandable.
Not, of course, the Belarusian people saw only good things from the Polish gentry, and only oppression and slavery from the Russians, everything is clear.

Just something in our time in spite of everything, the Belarusians in the union with the Poles do not break ...

[esaul]

Banshee arranged Tole Orsha! Wow!

[sirToad]

ah-ah! This is the same Tolya, whose main argument in the dispute is rudeness of the type, "himself"? well, rightly so! Before getting into disputes, I would have bothered to read books first!

[baluru72]

Where I wrote the Nazi face --- it was written - KA-TsA-PO-V, Yes, all of us and oh oh and K and Tsa -PY to some extent ,,,

Cant site probably

[SL.Kocegar]

Splin,
Splin, that's the problem, that history should be one, and not rewrite it to suit your own pleasure, I would have looked at a person who dared to rewrite "The Lay of Igor's Host" or "The Tale of Bygone Years"