Tugging platform

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Russia, which was once the leader in the field of unmanned aerial vehicles, today has seriously lagged behind in the development and application of UAVs. The gap is great, it is difficult to overcome.

Unmanned models in Russia, of course, are. For example, the devices of the Izhevsk company ZALA AERO GROUP, Enix CJSC, Horizont OJSC, which, together with the Austrian Shibel (Schiebel), launched the production of Horizon Air S-100 UAVs based on drone S-100 "Kamkopter" (Camcopter) developed by "Shibel".



These are models intended for conducting reconnaissance. Heavy UAVs, designed for the installation of weapons, at various times tried to develop the company "Sukhoi" and the RSK "MiG", but did not make headway in this matter due to the lack of government order and, accordingly, funding. Now these two classes of devices are being developed under Sukhoi government contracts with the participation of RSK MiG and Transas in partnership with the Kazan Falcon OKB. The results of these works have not been announced so far.

Intelligence or shock?


Meanwhile, in leading countries of the world drones with aviation weapons are increasingly being used in real military operations. Even China demonstrates its own developments in this area at military parades and international salons. Recently, defense ministers of several European countries agreed to conduct a study on the possibility of creating a pan-European medium-altitude long-range UAV of the MALE type (Medium-Altitude Long-Endurance) based on existing national projects.

“F-35 will surely be the last manned fighter that the US Navy buys and exploits”
But, of course, the United States advanced the furthest in this area. American aircraft-type drones take off and land on the deck of an aircraft carrier by analogy with fighter jets, and the experienced X-47B drone of the aircraft has already made autonomous refueling in the air.

Now the US Department of Defense plans to organize a competition for the creation of the first combat deck UAV, which the Navy intends to include in the advanced integrated combat management system IF (Integrated Fires).

The request of the organizers of the upcoming tender for the development of the UCLASS (Unmanned Carrier-Launched Airborne Surveillance Strike) unmanned reconnaissance and shock apparatus is expected in the next few months, but the US Navy only at the last moment decided which specialization — reconnaissance or shock — should become the main one.

Just a few months before the UCLASS requirements were published, a number of senior US Navy officials began to treat this UAV as a surveillance, reconnaissance and information gathering (NRSI) platform, endowed with certain shock capabilities. In April of this year, Rear Admiral Mark Darra, executive director of unmanned aircraft and strike weapons programs of the US Navy, described the UCLASS device as a platform with combined capabilities of NRSI and target destruction. “The main payload is to perform observation, reconnaissance, and information gathering tasks, but shock capabilities will also be provided,” he said at the annual conference of the Association of High-Precision Arms Manufacturers and Operators in the city of Springfield, Virginia. In addition, Darra said that his management continues to work on the deck and ground components of the system, while the Navy all summer will conduct an assessment of the capabilities of UCLASS. Only after that, he noted, "we will be ready to move quickly with the implementation of the program."

Tugging platformAll this changed for the better the attitude to the program of legislators, as well as some of its critics who put pressure on the Navy, forcing UCLASS to return to the original status of a deep penetration strike platform.

A few months left before the opening of the tender for the UCLASS program. Recently, government officials said that the competition for the construction of a new UAV will start in the 2016 fiscal year - almost two years later than planned. Despite this, the Navy still expects that the device will be ready for adoption at the beginning of the 2020-s.

US Navy Minister Ray Mabus defended plans for UCLASS medium capabilities in May, but said that this new platform would serve as a bridge to the transition to the UAV, which would replace the deck version of the F-35 "Lightning 2" company. Martin "(Lockheed Martin). He noted that he was a supporter of a strike aircraft capable of overcoming the air defense system, and the UCLASS apparatus would be brought to such a level.

Thus, UCLASS will eventually cease to play the role of an intermediate option, which allows the Navy to carry out operations with the use of deck UAVs. Mabus said that the platform should become a full-scale autonomous attack aircraft, which is able to function in the difficult conditions of countering the enemy’s air defenses. The question of when UCLASS can be brought to such a state remains open.

Initial plans


Initially, UCLASS was conceived as an unobtrusive partner of a strike deck aircraft that hits targets in the deep rear of heavily protected airspace. It was also assumed that this UAV will provide observation, reconnaissance, information gathering, communication and be able to refuel in the air in order to increase the duration of non-stop flight.

The program appeared after the completion of the project J-UCAS (Joint Unmanned Combat Air System). Candidates for the J-UCAS contract were Boeing X-45 and Northrop Grumman X-47. However, in 2011, the UCLASS version of the deck strike aircraft began to develop. This was due to the fact that the United States Department of Defense's Joint Security Control Board, headed by the new Vice-Chairman, Admiral James Winnfield, began to direct the Navy's research towards a more accessible concept. When US President Barack Obama signed the 2011 Budget Control Act of the Year, the newly approved program costs reflected these adjustments. Nevertheless, the opposition faction inside the Pentagon, together with the militant lawmakers, continued to support the idea of ​​a low-profile, UCLASS apparatus equipped with powerful weapons.

The program was officially launched in 2013 by issuing four contracts for conducting preliminary R & D to Boeing, General Atomiks (General Atomix), Lockheed Martin and Northop Grumman. Each did not exceed 500 million dollars. The main characteristics asked at that time still reflected the need of the Navy for an autonomous deck-based unmanned combat vehicle capable of providing aircraft-assaulting connections with reconnaissance data and endowed with limited strike capabilities. It was assumed that at least 450 from 1400 kilograms of its payload will be weapon class "air-surface".

In August, Deputy Minister of Defense Robert Wark, co-author of the White Paper on Defense-2014, who favored the UCLASS variant with powerful weapons, reviewed the 2008 program. It was supposed that this would be the last stage of evaluation by the Ministry of Defense, however, the corresponding request to the tender has not yet been published.

Waiting for the tender

“UCLASS is now undergoing a special assessment of opportunities, and we are expecting results at the end of 2015 of the year,” Rear Admiral Mark Darra told 14 on April at the Sea-Air-to-Space exposition of the Naval League in National Harbor, Maryland. According to Darr, the tender is scheduled to be announced in the 2016 fiscal year, and the UAVs will be deployed in service at the beginning of the 2020s.

The admiral informed that two main questions still remain unanswered - about the ability of UCLASS devices to perform the tasks of blocking access and blocking individual A2 / AD zones (anti-access / area denial), as well as about the types of targets that he can hit. However, Darra lowered the chances of creating an unmanned platform with heavy weapons. “The times when the platform was planned, starting from an aircraft carrier with a range over 2000 kilometers and a mass of ammunition above 2000 kilograms, passed. “We have other systems that can do this kind of work,” he stressed. “This is called a promising integrated US Navy IF combat system.”

The admiral added that the naval forces will continue to increase the requirements for autonomy until artificial intelligence can work on the same principle as man. As an example, Darra cited an apparatus that needs to make a decision about conducting refueling in the air. This is a very difficult task with a number of variables that are not calculated by the computer.

22 of May of this year, the Navy successfully demonstrated fully autonomous refueling in the air of the Unrop X-47B of the Northrop Grumman UCAS-D unmanned Combat Air System (Unmonned Combat Air System).

“The X-47B test confirms the ability of prospective UAVs to perform standard tasks such as air refueling and seamlessly work with manned aircraft as part of an aircraft carrier wing,” said Captain Bo Duarte, program manager for the naval forces in this area.

X-47B was the first UAV aircraft scheme, operating from the aircraft carrier by analogy with manned aircraft. For the first time, X-47B made an ejection launch of 14 on May 2013 of the year from the atomic aircraft carrier CVN-77 “George Herbert Bush” (USS George HW Bush) of “Nimitz” class (Nimitz). May 17 UCAS-D completed nine landings with an immediate takeoff after touching a moving aircraft carrier on the deck. 10 July 2013 of the year X-47B flew from the US Naval Air Base Patuxent River and produced the first in stories UAV landing using aerofinishers.

The Navy said they were ready to close the UCAS-D program, in accordance with which all the tasks were performed, but some lawmakers insist on continuing to use this system. Subsequent research may be devoted to the autonomous selection of weapons, involves the leadership of the Navy, as well as the integration of UAVs in the wing of the carrier aircraft both on board and in operations.

Two directions of development


The Navy considers two possible directions for the development of the UCLASS apparatus. The first involves the creation of a reconnaissance and strike platform using mostly already developed technologies. According to the forecast of the weekly Janes Defense Weekly, the cost of R & D when choosing this option will be about a billion dollars. The final cost of the system is likely to be at the level of 25 million dollars. At the same time, if the Navy acquires for half of the existing 10 aircraft carriers one squadron each, including 6 – 12 devices, production costs can be reduced to the level of 0,9 – 1,8 billion dollars.

The second direction involves the creation of an unobtrusive UAV, twice the mass of weapons and the range of action manned shock platform. In this case, R & D costs can reach 10 billions of dollars, while the unit cost is 200 – 300 million dollars, including engines, and the production cost of 36 – 72 UAVs will be 7,2 – 14,4 billion dollars.

When choosing a less expensive platform, experts call General Atomics the most likely bidder for the contract. If the Navy follows the path of an unobtrusive UAV equipped with powerful weapons, the proposals of the other three candidates will probably be suitable. The work performed by Northrop Grumman under the X-47В program, of course, positions it as a favorite to receive a contract. And although the Navy stressed that the UCLASS program requires new development, undoubtedly, the autonomy technologies demonstrated by X-47В will be incorporated into the requirements, and Northrop's competencies gained in this area will help the company.

“Boeing” meanwhile, previously discussed plans to participate in the competitive struggle with the new apparatus, which includes Phantom Ray’s X-45C technology. Two test flights of this platform were funded by the company in 2011. “We tested a lot of opportunities during these flights that we wanted to explore,” said Dave Coopersmeath, vice president of Boeing Advanst Militar Air Air, a division of Boeing’s 2012. Since then, the company, however, has redirected funds to other projects.

Lockheed Martin is also developing promising technologies for participating in the UCLASS tender.

Last manned fighter


How can the Navy afford the second option with more complex UAVs, if now the Ministry of Defense is having financial problems? One of the budget articles of the Naval Forces in the aviation field is already a contender for a significant reduction in a very important period for the development of UCLASS. At the beginning of the year, the Navy announced plans to reduce purchases of the 5-generation F-35C carrier-based fighter by almost a third in accordance with the five-year FYDP defense program (Future Years Defense Program), which starts in 2016. The draft budget for the next fiscal year includes the purchase of four F-35Cs and an additional two, approved by congress at the end of 2014. Four more F-35C naval forces plan to purchase in 2017 year, and then increase the rate of purchases to 12 units by 2020 and get a total of only 38 fighters. Marine Corps plans include X-NUMX units F-83B.

Meanwhile, on the 2016 fiscal year, the Navy requested a budget of 800 million dollars for the purchase of new weapons used outside the enemy's air defense zone. The maximum plan for F-35C is 369 units. If this figure was confirmed during the fiscal year 2016 – 2022, 6,47 could save a billion dollars.

In April, US Secretary of the Navy Ray Mabus ambiguously stated that the F-35 would almost certainly be the last manned fighter to be purchased and operated by the Navy, and unmanned systems, especially fully autonomous, should become the new norm in an increasingly wider range of areas.

The US Air Force, given the need to deal with emerging threats with limited funding and the high cost of the F-35 "Lightning-2" aircraft, are exploring the possibility of creating an 6-generation fighter. “It is not necessary that it will be single,” said the head of the combat aviation command of the US Air Force, General Mike Hostage. “If I can simply and effectively destroy the enemy, I will approve this project.” The air force is ready to accept intermediate risks and to direct part of the funds allocated for the modernization of combat aircraft to create a sample of the 6 generation.

This aviation complex will be based on indicators of stealth, speed and efficiency of the equipment achieved in the X-NUMX generation fighter F-5 and F-35 Raptor. He will have to interact with a promising long-range bomber LRSB (Long-Range Strike Bomber) and drones. The US Air Force may be developing weapons built on the principle of directional power transmission. Hostage noted the promise of these technologies and the successes achieved in this area. However, the general did not specify the technical details and did not report on the timing of the availability of samples of such weapons.

Ray Mabus announced the introduction of a new post as deputy assistant to the Navy for unmanned systems and the formation of control N99. According to him, it is necessary to coordinate and support all developments of unmanned vehicles operating under water, on water, over water and projecting their capabilities from sea to land. Until now, UAVs were subject to the management of the information superiority of the N2 / N6 Navy and were classified exclusively as reconnaissance platforms.

Expert opinion


Back in September, Pentagon high-ranking officials criticized the level of funding for the UCLASS tender, the opening of which was delayed. When asked why the Department of Defense still does not disclose the task, Frank Kendall, Deputy Minister of Defense for Procurement, Technology and Logistics, said that the whole thing was in determining the cost. “This is due to the uncertainty about our future budget and the problems of the feasibility of the project,” he said at a conference on defense in Washington. - We check positions which, probably, are not provided with the budget. The feasibility of the project is an important aspect for us now, and any new initiative must be very thoughtful. ” Before turning to industry for bids, officials want to be confident that the program’s intentions are real, Kendall added.

Nevertheless, congress auditors from the main budget and control department of the GAO (Government Accountability Office) in May accused the Pentagon of indecision on the development of tactical and technical requirements for UCLASS, arguing that the delay increases the risks of the program. The report says: “Continuing debates about what specialization should become the main one for UCLASS UAVs — reconnaissance with limited strike capabilities or, conversely, shock with limited intelligence capabilities, delay implementation of the program.”

The GAO management noted that many key stages of the implementation of the program, including the reasonable date of the first flight, have been postponed for several years. The Navy is at risk because the results achieved so far may become irrelevant, added to the GAO.

But although GAO’s concerns about the deferments and risks of the program are justified, the debate over the protracted requirements shows that the Navy is still refining its vision of deck-type UAVs. Thus, a thorough strategic assessment of the capabilities and role that a prospective UAV will play in the IF structure is a wise course. Current financial difficulties, in particular the continuing sequestration of the defense budget, doom programs to fierce competition. The Navy must convincingly state their arguments, especially if they rely on the low-profile UCLASS UAV with powerful weapons.
72 comments
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  1. +1
    28 June 2015 07: 25
    In general, are I interested in the prospects of shock UAVs in real hostilities (not banana republics), even if Iran could neutralize an apparatus of this class?
    1. +17
      28 June 2015 08: 18
      Quote: Jack-B
      In general, are I interested in the prospects of shock UAVs in real hostilities (not banana republics), even if Iran could neutralize an apparatus of this class?

      Here the conversation can go on a different plane ... Destroy a single drone - special
      no problem. The problem of fighting UAVs occurs with mass raids ... Knock down a few thousand
      UAVs that attack at the same time - this is a problem for any air defense! Plus more economic
      problem ... Anti-aircraft missile may exceed the cost of destroyed object! And, perhaps,
      all means of air defense is not enough to repel one giant attack by UAVs!
      Need to look for a solution! It should be cheap, and have great efficiency!
      Perhaps it will be electronic warfare, or something new ...
      1. +3
        28 June 2015 08: 26
        Quote: Jack-B
        even if Iran was able to neutralize an apparatus of this class?

        If something Iran is ALREADY an exporter of its weapons, this is the way ...
        1. +4
          28 June 2015 09: 18
          To create a swarm of UAVs, a group AI system is needed. This is the main brain of this swarm.
          1. +3
            28 June 2015 12: 02
            Algorithms have been improving for a long time, because this is one of the most promising areas. But one thing is a laboratory, with sterility and standards, and a "field", with its unpredictability.
            1. +2
              28 June 2015 14: 23
              What's the problem? The main thing is that the "head UAV" has all the algorithms and all sorts of topographic references, the rest of the "swarm" will orient itself from it and from each other.
              1. +1
                28 June 2015 17: 54
                and why not give the whole swarm the opportunity of a head UAV, the whole swarm can duplicate each other in case of loss of a head UAV, the next one takes its place, etc.
          2. 0
            28 June 2015 17: 53
            Quote: mirag2
            To create a swarm of UAVs, a group AI system is needed. This is the main brain of this swarm.

            This is not necessary. A swarm of bees is a UTERUS + drones + working bees (something like that).
            Therefore, in a swarm of UAVs can be: command, reconnaissance, relay and attack drones.
        2. +1
          28 June 2015 14: 14
          Of course, Iran is not a banana republic. But far from a leader. There are no questions with banana republics; they cannot counteract drones. A vivid example of Afghanistan. But the level is higher and already UAV complexity. I can be mistaken, but in my opinion, at the beginning of hostilities in Iraq and Libya, the Americans did not risk sending drones there. All were flying entirely manned aircraft and plus tomahawks. Those. even against such miserable air defense strike drones are not able to work.
      2. +1
        28 June 2015 14: 05
        When it comes to attack drones, it is quite difficult to talk about a "swarm". These are rather bulky units, not much smaller than aircraft. Their cost is also considerable and the cost of such a "swarm" will be very severe. Managing it will be problematic, especially given the countermeasures of electronic warfare. Will an attack with these tools be effective? - a big question IMHO.
      3. +2
        28 June 2015 15: 21
        Quote: AlNikolaich
        The problem of fighting UAVs occurs during mass raids ...


        Those. talk about the unmanned UAV ...

        Quote: AlNikolaich
        . Anti-aircraft missile may exceed the cost of destroyed object!


        And you say that an anti-aircraft missile can exceed the cost of an impact UAV?
        Wounded UAV is a more complex and cumbersome device - due to which it will be cheaper ?! belay
        1. +1
          28 June 2015 20: 16
          An anti-aircraft missile is too expensive for massive drone raids. They must be met by the same massive swarm of "fire bees" ', a wall. I am writing allegorically, who needs to turn on the head.
      4. +1
        28 June 2015 15: 57
        There can only be one solution - the wave impact on the armored UAVs, anti-aircraft missiles are not enough, and modern American UAVs can rise above the MANPADS coverage area, which is enough.
        1. 0
          28 June 2015 20: 41
          Mankind has created so many weapons., So many different carriers, different shells and missiles, that if the head can work in the direction - to connect the awl and soap, then we are not brother.
      5. +1
        28 June 2015 19: 08

        “F-35 will surely be the last manned fighter that the US Navy buys and exploits”
        what Lyubov Milovanova, you’re unlikely to be convicted of addiction, who wants to meet in the sky even with ... Rusk 4+? I think that during a spectacle in Bangolore, many mattresses wanted rest ... pension ... islands ... wassat "northrop" and "lockheed", a well-worked out scheme for years ...
      6. +2
        28 June 2015 22: 01
        Quote: AlNikolaich
        Perhaps it will be electronic warfare, or something new ...

        Or an old, atomic explosion in the atmosphere for example. I read in foreign media that, according to their intelligence, Russian villains are considering the possibility of deploying a nuclear warhead on the S-300.
      7. +1
        28 June 2015 23: 21
        Quote: AlNikolaich
        The problem of fighting UAVs occurs with mass raids ... Knock down a few thousand
        UAVs that attack at the same time - this is a problem for any air defense! Plus more economic
        problem ... Anti-aircraft missile may exceed the cost of destroyed object! And, perhaps,
        all means of air defense is not enough to repel one giant attack by UAVs!


        Exactly ! If now they are stopped by the number of unacceptable losses among pilots, then in the case of robots this factor will not be decisive.
      8. 0
        29 June 2015 20: 43
        I talked here with the developers of air defense systems, everyone is concerned about the sharp development of the UAV level, but the problem, as I understand it, is not without attention ...
      9. 0
        7 July 2015 12: 56
        The issues of repelling mass raids were decided even during the Cold War - there were anti-aircraft missiles with nuclear warheads, EMR generators, etc.
        So if someone makes a cloud, countermeasures are already available.
    2. +1
      28 June 2015 12: 37
      Really interesting for combat use against high-tech opponents are only independently controlled unmanned systems with protected artificial intelligence.
      And this is a matter of the future, and very expensive. Impact drones - not our way for this and for a bunch of reasons.

      And as for Iran, you subtracted the level of its development from 60's.
      1. +1
        28 June 2015 14: 30
        Quote: NordUral
        Really interesting for combat use against high-tech opponents are only independently controlled unmanned systems with protected artificial intelligence.
        And this is a matter of the future, and very expensive. Impact drones - not our way for this and for a bunch of reasons.

        And as for Iran, you subtracted the level of its development from 60's.



        This is how modern NATO / Israeli UAVs function, or do you think they control their joystick? The operator controls only the camera, whose signals are transmitted via satellite communication, can give an order to turn home, but the main tasks are already laid down from the beginning, the points of overflight of the positions of the settlement, or the patrol perimeter. Attack UAVs have long been able to select targets, distinguish tanks from each other and from trucks. So it has long been present and dangerous not only for the "Papuans", but also for any army in the world.
        1. +1
          28 June 2015 17: 58
          Ai-ai-ay, of course, with a joystick, but not necessary, there is a flight along a given route, with GPS + positioning, there probably is pattern recognition (on a background uniform in the IR range - road, desert, sea). And there is no artificial intelligence there, but there is a primitive (relative to humans) automation system, not far from Buran.
          Actually, the current state of development of the AI ​​of transport management can be seen in the example of robot cars (see DARPA competitions of all kinds, etc.), while these robots drive very meeedely, they think for several minutes at each intersection. What planes are there! So, before real combat work in standalone mode, the UAV is still very, very far away.
          1. +1
            28 June 2015 19: 03
            With automation from Buran, the X-37 flies right now. tongue
          2. 0
            28 June 2015 19: 05
            Wait dear, the robot cars you mentioned have to deal with a lot more information! It's one thing to fly in space, it's another to move along the roads on the same plane, with a huge number of all sorts of factors. What the X-47B can do now, or at least serial UAVs with given GPS coordinates, is quite consistent with the tasks you mentioned and this is artificial intelligence. Not necessarily equal to human intelligence? The intelligence of a bee, roaring in search of honey (in our case, a UAV in search of armored vehicles) is absolutely enough to reach the target, to have an autonomous combat platform. The joystick on modern UAVs is controlled by cameras, not the aircraft itself. The UAV itself flies autonomously. So what else can modern UAVs do for you? They themselves fly, along a given route, they themselves have the ability to find a target, according to the principle of shells with a shock core like "Excalibur" or "Krasnopol", these shells contain a radar that is able to select targets such as armored vehicles. Therefore, in my opinion, exactly what you mentioned should be in the future for a long time already and not only in single copies, but in service with many countries.
            1. +1
              28 June 2015 20: 46
              Quote: Ay-yay-yay
              It is one thing to fly in space, another to move along roads on one plane, with a huge number of all kinds of factors.

              Not everything is so simple, the speed of movement differs by two orders of magnitude, and the plane cannot stop with the aim of "thinking".
              Quote: Ay-yay-yay
              The UAV itself flies autonomously

              Autonomously does not mean independently.
              Quote: Ay-yay-yay
              So what can modern UAVs still not be in your opinion?

              For example:
              He cannot change his route on his own, having heard on the radio (or through the military network) that, allegedly, intelligence has noticed new targets in such a square.
              He cannot recognize that in this square, this convoy of cars is militants with machine guns, and the other convoy is peasants with shovels, and the third convoy is its fighters, whom the defendant refused.
              But what about difficult situations, he stupidly can’t not only recognize that, but simply highlight at least something against a complex background.
              Quote: Ay-yay-yay
              "Excalibur" or "Krasnopol"

              This is from another opera - GPS and LTC.
              Quote: Ay-yay-yay
              they themselves have the opportunity to find a goal

              If you are talking about Javelin and Spike, then the recognition system there is very, very primitive - holding the captured image, they don’t recognize anything there (in the sense they don’t recognize objects, but hold some kind of geometric spot), for a drone this is not good at all.
              In general, a modern UAV is essentially a remote operator’s tool that automates some functions - such as automatic take-off / landing, automatic flight in a given direction, capture of the target’s image (indicated by the operator), and as of today, some kind of dull automatic refueling. I do not see point-blank intelligence here. A bee is incomparably more intelligent, for it is independent in its actions, confidently flies in an environment saturated with obstacles and difficult to interact with other bees.
              1. 0
                29 June 2015 10: 51
                Quote: Passing by

                He cannot change his route on his own, having heard on the radio (or through the military network) that, allegedly, intelligence has noticed new targets in such a square.
                He cannot recognize that in this square, this convoy of cars is militants with machine guns, and the other convoy is peasants with shovels, and the third convoy is its fighters, whom the defendant refused.

                I'm afraid to disappoint you, but manned platforms cannot do the above. No one will allow a combat unit "having heard something on the air" to abandon its mission on its own and fly to some left square. You will need an order \ permission \ target designation, etc.

                And recognition of targets in battle has been a sore point for hundreds of years, and increasing the technological effectiveness of the modern battlefield somehow did not particularly reduce the percentage of casualties from friendly fire.
                The percentage of civilian casualties, with each new conflict, is also only growing.
                This was earlier, when an attack aircraft could fly at low level over a column, there was still a chance for correct recognition (and even then not always), but now, with an increase in the range of destruction, the pilots do not hit militants with machine guns, and not "peasants with shovels" a bunch of pixels on the screen, and the pilot is physically unable to select targets visually.
                1. 0
                  30 June 2015 00: 40
                  Quote: psiho117
                  I'm afraid to disappoint you, but manned platforms cannot do the above. No one will allow a combat unit "having heard something on the air" to abandon its mission on its own and fly to some left square. You will need an order \ permission \ target designation, etc.

                  In manned systems, flight time is limited by pilot fatigue, so free hunting is not widely practiced, drones do not have such a problem, the patrol time of modern low-speed UAVs has already reached several days, for a UAV of the future, this mode as the main one suggests itself - i.e. a swarm of drones hangs over the area and gastites all appearing targets.
                  Quote: psiho117
                  the increase in the manufacturability of the modern battlefield somehow did not particularly reduce the percentage of casualties from friendly fire.
                  .. now, with the increase in the range of destruction, the pilots are not hitting militants with machine guns, and not "peasants with shovels", the fire is fired at a bunch of pixels on the screen, and the pilot cannot physically select targets visually.

                  Technologies have matured and are already making it possible to solve this problem. Forget the wretched Desert Storm pictures, the F35 now has 4K cameras, and by the time the real combat drones arrive, there will be even higher optical sensors.
    3. +1
      28 June 2015 13: 40
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      1. 0
        28 June 2015 21: 50
        I asked you to convey (by phone) to you all THANKS! From myself I will add a low bow to you forum users! hi
    4. 0
      28 June 2015 14: 22
      Quote: Jack-B
      even if Iran was able to neutralize an apparatus of this class?



      Rather, that drone flopped itself, and Iran gives it out as a controlled landing.)) Look at the photo that was presented in Iran, no matter how hard they tried to glue it, you can still see that there is not a single whole place on it. In Donbass, both sides use rather primitive drones compared to the average American ones, but they still bring a lot of problems to both sides and it is not so easy to shoot them down. And how do you even imagine it, to shoot down a drone with a wingspan of 4m, without any thermal signature, due to the absence of hot exhaust from an electric motor, with a pushing propeller? Moreover, it is not only not audible, but also not particularly visible. So the ZPU and MANPADS disappear. It is also almost impossible to grab a narrowly focused satellite signal, because it is not scattered like radio waves in all directions, but goes up to the satellite. Modern drones are a terrible weapon and not only against the "Papuans". And shock drones, even more so. Imagine 10 drones, each with 2 Hellfires on board, today they are able to independently select targets and destroy them. And even if a rocket is launched, this does not necessarily unmask the UAV, since the rocket motor can be started even after 1000m of free fall, and the UAV will already turn to the side and continue tracking, indicating targets for art, MLRS, or the Air Force.
      1. +1
        28 June 2015 17: 03
        Quote: Ay-yay-yay
        Rather, that drone itself flopped, and Iran gives it out as a controlled landing.))

        Does it honor Western technology, in particular American technology, that he himself plopped down? wink laughing
        1. +1
          28 June 2015 18: 01
          The UAV and TTX manufacturers clearly spelled out the minimum number of hours before an accident. Even the household appliances of leading manufacturers (not Russian) become unusable and break down.
          So there is nothing surprising, and there is nothing out of the ordinary in this.
      2. +1
        28 June 2015 17: 54
        Quote: Ay-yay-yay
        Rather, that drone itself flopped, and Iran gives it out as a controlled landing.))

        The fact that it was a controlled landing is unlikely. But even the Iranians did not describe it in such terms. As far as I remember there was something like "forced to land". And by the way, he obviously did not fall. Otherwise, the Iranians would never have been able to glue it together. About the 4th wingspan, you also bend it. The drone that was planted in Iran was for reconnaissance purposes. The drums are much more. Type in the search engine "drone UAVs" and see the photos. These are devices the size of a conventional combat aircraft. So they will be shot down with conventional air defense systems, maybe with some minimal specifics. But most likely they will not even be shot down, but simply "forced to land." It's easier and cheaper. And about a narrowly focused satellite signal is a funny fantasy. In your opinion, for each drone on the satellite there is a personal dish for the formation of a narrowly targeted signal? And of course, the drone also has the same dish to protect the control signal from interception. And American engineers are the most ingenious geniuses that they were able to fasten such a positioning system to these cymbals that the cymbal does not lose connection even during maneuvering.
        1. +2
          28 June 2015 19: 30
          Quote: Jack-B
          As far as I remember there was something like "forced to land". And by the way, he obviously did not fall. Otherwise, the Iranians would never have been able to glue it together.


          In the internet, forographies of that UAV are available, I see a drone broken but glued from pieces to them. Light amulets often fall and do not break into small pieces, in your opinion, if he fell, then into powder? The photo shows exactly the damage that the aircraft receives as a result of the crash.

          Quote: Jack-B
          About the 4th wingspan, you also bend it. The drone that was planted in Iran was for reconnaissance purposes. The drums are much more. Type in the search engine "drone UAVs" and see the photos.



          About the 4th wingspan, you also bend it. The drone that was planted in Iran was for reconnaissance purposes. The drums are much more. Type in the search engine "drone UAVs" and see the photos.


          Quote: Jack-B
          These are devices the size of a conventional combat aircraft. So they will be shot down with conventional air defense systems, maybe with some minimal specifics. But most likely they will not even be shot down, but simply "forced to land." It's easier and cheaper



          The size of a combat aircraft, such UAVs as the Global Hawk, for example, Israeli, or American Predators are a bit smaller. But not the point. I'm wondering what the air defense seeker will focus on? Or how are you going to "make you land"? This is not a radio-controlled model.

          Quote: Jack-B
          And about a narrowly targeted satellite signal this is a funny fantasy. In your opinion, for each drone on the satellite is a personal plate for the formation of a narrowly targeted signal? And of course, the drone also has the same plate to protect the control signal from interception. And American engineers are the most ingenious geniuses who were able to fasten such a positioning system to these plates that the plate does not lose touch even during maneuvering.



          Do you think the operators receive live pictures from their UAVs? You would at least take an interest in the principle of operation of modern UAVs. It is possible to transmit information in live time via satellite, or narrowly directed radio waves.
          1. 0
            29 June 2015 07: 44
            Quote: Ay-yay-yay
            In the internet, forographies of that UAV are available, I see a drone broken but glued from pieces to them. Light amulets often fall and do not break into small pieces, in your opinion, if he fell, then into powder? The photo shows exactly the damage that the aircraft receives as a result of the crash.

            Not broken but damaged. Hard landing damage. Broken down here:
            https://yandex.ru/images/search?text=%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B7%D0%B1%D0%B8%D1%82%D1%8B%

            D0%B9+%D1%81%D0%B0%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BB%D1%91%D1%82
            Try to glue.
            Quote: Ay-yay-yay
            The size of a combat aircraft, such UAVs as the Global Hawk, for example, Israeli, or American Predators are a bit smaller. But not the point. I'm wondering what the air defense seeker will focus on? Or how are you going to "make you land"? This is not a radio-controlled model.

            It is not only the size of an airplane. This is a natural plane only without a pilot. So, the GOS will be induced in the same way as on a plane. Why should it be induced differently? UAVs with electric motors do not have thermal radiation, but these are not shock UAVs.
            Quote: Ay-yay-yay
            Do you think the operators receive live pictures from their UAVs? You would at least take an interest in the principle of operation of modern UAVs. It is possible to transmit information in live time via satellite, or narrowly directed radio waves.

            You like talking about a narrowly directed signal. How is it formed you know? With the help of a "dish" - a reflective antenna. Have you seen dishes for communication with the control center anywhere on drones?
    5. 0
      29 June 2015 20: 52
      Now the author will tell you about Avtobaza, and that the bullet is a fool, and the bayonet is well done)
  2. +3
    28 June 2015 07: 29
    What is the article about? I don’t understand. If Russia’s lag in this area, then the essence is stated in one line of this article:
    Heavy UAVs designed for the installation of weapons were tried at different times by the Sukhoi company and the MiG RSK, but they did not advance far in this matter due to the lack of a state order and, accordingly, financing.

    There will be orders, there will be an interest of various departments in this matter - there will be their own UAVs. Now no one will "indulge" at a loss for the sake of creative interest.
    And let's not forget that the USSR was a pioneer in this field of aviation.
    1. -2
      28 June 2015 08: 19
      Quote: Iline
      What is the article about? I don’t understand.

      So to speak literary assorted.
      The quote about the last PILOTED fighter was especially surprised, very funny, by golly, a couple of years ago someone shouted about the last tanks, they say they have outlived themselves, and they have no place on the modern battlefield, given the modern weapons of defeat BT. But no, and the tanks are now useful, and everyone stirred in the light of the extreme Victory Parade.
      The same topic was present in print publishing houses, they say with computerization, and books will not be needed, and newspapers.
      But no, all this exists, and is printed.
      For me personally, it’s better to read from paper than from a monitor.
      So this is all like another informational misuse, as is the case with SDI.
      Well, at the expense of our lag, there would be no happiness, so misfortune helped.
      It’s easier to go along the beaten track without stepping on a rake, and given the mistakes of other manufacturers.
      Moscow was not built in a day.
      Everything will be fine)))
      1. +1
        28 June 2015 09: 42
        The same topic was present in print publishing houses, they say with computerization, and books will not be needed, and newspapers.
        But no, all this exists and is being printed. Yes, but the number of young people who read books is decreasing catastrophically, and tanks do not play such a role as in the 2nd World War, and unmanned fighters, the S-400 missile is essentially an unmanned interceptor fighter so not everything is so rosy
    2. +2
      28 June 2015 08: 37
      Quote: Iline
      And let's not forget that the USSR was a pioneer in this field of aviation.

      Unmanned aerial vehicles: start: http://www.bespilotnik.com/articles/bpla-first/
    3. +2
      28 June 2015 12: 47
      Quote: Iline
      What is the article about?

      An interesting article on military subjects.
      Quote: Iline
      There will be orders, there will be interest of various departments in this matter - there will be own UAVs.

      UAVs will be, but we’ll only be in the rody catching up ...
    4. +5
      28 June 2015 14: 38
      Quote: Iline
      There will be orders, there will be an interest of various departments in this matter - there will be their own UAVs. Now no one will "indulge" at a loss for the sake of creative interest.



      Would you like to say that that gigantic work of amers, the infusion of gigantic sums, developments, trials, decades of experience, all this is nothing, nonsense, this "self-indulgence" ?! What if they want to at the Sukhoi Design Bureau, then they will catch up twice, do it faster than the "stupid s"? On what basis, that the USSR, hoo, were the "pioneers" in aviation? Do you have any idea what it means to have no UAV, to fight with the enemy, who has their darkness, of all classes, to choose from, from 20g. a helicopter with a thermal imager, up to Global Hawk, the size of not a small plane? Do you think you will knock it down with a hat? Well, good luck, cho ..
      1. +2
        28 June 2015 14: 43
        Oh, for the lack of arguments, the minuses have gone! Do you want to become a marshal, shout urya! and "they are stupid"! So?
        1. 0
          28 June 2015 18: 09
          Are you here, not because of the pros? Do not pay attention to the little things.
          1. +3
            28 June 2015 18: 49
            No, of course, dear, but in my opinion it is possible to squeeze out those who have their own opinion on this site. I have been reading articles and comments on this site for a long time and have registered not for epaulettes of course, but to be able to ask questions to competent users, of whom there are not a few here. It would be a pity if I lost this opportunity due to the fact that some will peck with minuses and be banned.
            1. 0
              28 June 2015 19: 09
              Quote: Ay-yay-yay
              It would be a pity if I lost this opportunity due to the fact that some will peck with minuses and be banned.

              Sorry of course, but not fatal ..
      2. 0
        3 July 2015 10: 50
        Would you like to say that that gigantic work of amers, the infusion of gigantic sums, developments, trials, decades of experience, all this is nothing, nonsense, this "self-indulgence" ?! What if they want to at the Sukhoi Design Bureau, then they will catch up at once, do it faster than the "stupid s"? On what basis, that the USSR, hoo, were the "pioneers" in aviation? Do you have any idea what it means to have no UAV, to fight with the enemy, who has their darkness, of all classes, to choose from, from 20g. a helicopter with a thermal imager, up to Global Hawk, the size of not a small plane? Do you think you'll knock it down with a hat? Well, good luck, cho .. [/ quote]
        For about the giant infusions turned zilch. Read about the high-tech and very expensive Lockheed SR-71 Blackbird and the Mig-25, which put an end to this high-tech and expensive aircraft. Now, with regards to the war with the enemy, who has the darkness of UAVs. What kind of war are we talking about? Defensive or offensive. If we attack the enemy, then we can still speculate about something, but in the event of an attack on us, everything is decided by a simple electromagnetic pulse.
    5. +2
      28 June 2015 17: 47
      Quote: Iline
      What is the article about? I don’t understand. If Russia’s lag in this area, then the essence is stated in one line of this article:

      I think the article is not only about this. It is obvious, of course, that we are lagging behind in the development of drone UAVs for years on the 10-15 and this is true. There were some attempts by MIG KB with its Skat and Sukhoi KB also had work ... but Amer already has a drummer and they are all funding it intensely. You can recall the X-37V.
      An 10-20t shock UAV is vital for us and as soon as possible. Electronic warfare systems are of course a good thing, but we need to develop not only defenses, but also attacks.
      1. 0
        3 July 2015 10: 53
        Why does Russia need a strike UAV? For what purposes is it needed?
  3. +4
    28 June 2015 07: 38
    This is when Russia was leading in the field of drones?
    In my opinion, we are forever behind in this ...
    1. +5
      28 June 2015 08: 08
      Quote: Leader
      This is when Russia was leading in the field of drones?
      In my opinion, we are forever behind in this ...

      Yes, at one time we were leaders! In the seventies, the USSR was adopted
      several drone models! And in considerable quantity. Only one Tu-142 "Flight" of which
      worth it! I can’t say for shock drones, but reconnaissance vehicles and flying targets
      widely used!
      And now ... By the way, I suppose, first of all, we need to solve issues related to systems
      fight with drones! The most pressing issue!
      1. +3
        28 June 2015 10: 03
        Shuttle flight tests were manned, and Buran unmanned!
        1. -1
          28 June 2015 12: 49
          So what? So the fau1 and fau2 were also unmanned ... yes, any guided missile with an onboard computer is already a drone.
          1. +1
            28 June 2015 19: 09
            The fact that even having failed to make an automatic docking system in space, the atomics from Buran was bought by the USA for the X-37
            1. 0
              28 June 2015 20: 50
              Quote: Scraptor
              The fact that even having failed to make an automatic docking system in space, the atomics from Buran was bought by the USA for the X-37

              I can only congratulate you ... that's just how Makar does this apply to my comment?
              1. 0
                28 June 2015 23: 12
                Me you too - how does the "nonintelligent" V-2 automation, which is a little more complicated than that of a bipedal torpedo (and easier than that of an acoustic one), relate to a drone?
                1. 0
                  29 June 2015 14: 58
                  You’d better answer the question first, and only then ask yours in the answer ...
                  1. 0
                    29 June 2015 20: 56
                    I don’t think it would be better.
      2. +2
        28 June 2015 18: 21
        Quote: AlNikolaich
        Yes, at one time we were leaders! In the seventies, the USSR was adopted
        several drone models! And in considerable quantity. Only one Tu-142 "Flight" of which
        worth it!

        You can recall the Spiral project ... hi Amers X-37 would have appeared if it were not for our development of this big question. But unfortunately, at the moment the United States has this car, but we don’t have one. hi
  4. +8
    28 June 2015 07: 49
    In fact, the lag in drones was explained only by the inertness of the MO. The same MiG began to work on the Skat UAV on its own initiative, when no one in the Defense Ministry seriously thought about it. Now they have come to their senses, and began to finance this business.

    There are no directly unattainable technologies in heavy UAVs other than traditional military aircraft (and the main know-how is software), you just need to do this systematically.
  5. +1
    28 June 2015 08: 09
    Quote: Leader
    This is when Russia was leading in the field of drones?

    Read carefully
    And let's not forget that the USSR was a pioneer in this field of aviation.

    The USSR and Russia are a little spaced apart in time.
    And on this topic, you can read on this site http://topwar.ru/10048-otechestvennye-bespilotnye-letatelnye-apparaty-chast-i.ht
    ml
    To develop and really mass-produce are two different things.
  6. +1
    28 June 2015 08: 21
    The drone must have means of destruction of the jammer, at least ground
  7. +3
    28 June 2015 08: 46
    A very loud statement about the F-35 is the last manned aircraft, not everything is so simple, they will create something, and the functions performed by these machines will hardly be on the shoulder in comparison with manned vehicles, I also do not believe in the statements of an uav-cheaper air defense missile (which uav, which rocket?), it is necessary to develop this area in the country, only now it may not be cheaper to design new ones, but to use the same MiG and Su, only in unmanned versions, can create UAVs like the "Caspian monster 'reduced, of course, to protect the coast or on missile base, why catch up and chase? We have our own areas where we are leaders, so use them
    1. +2
      28 June 2015 12: 54
      Modern airplanes are capable of performing the entire flight on autopilot and making a target lock, there are no obstacles to allow "opening fire" ... So this statement is very far-sighted and sensible, given the development of electronics over the past decades, because technology is increasingly the pilot is the weak point.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. The comment was deleted.
  10. +3
    28 June 2015 11: 22
    It is no secret that modern aircraft are 100% electronically controlled, with the exception of the catapult. Automated systems of Rubezh 20 years ago, together with the flight and navigation equipment of the MiG-31 aircraft and on-board computer, could without a person take the fighter to the target and return to the airfield. The pilot had only to lift the plane into the air and press the start button to hit targets. Why aren't you UAVs? It is enough to remove a person from the cab and provide a reliable communication system.
    For Russian UAVs, there used to be a problem in organizing a reliable communication channel. But now, with the development of ultra-wideband communications, this problem is being solved quite simply. The problem remained in the development of compact and economical engines for UAVs of small and medium class. But in my opinion this is not so tragic, as the author writes. There will be a need, funds will be allocated and done.
    In any case, do not shout that everything was lost and headlong to chase after the Americans creating large shock UAVs. Afghanistan showed that such UAVs are much more likely to hit their troops and civilians. This type of aircraft has an undeniable advantage: low visibility in the radar and infrared ranges, low noise and cost. These invaluable qualities make it possible not only to break through the enemy’s air defense system, but also to strike in the deep rear, especially if it is impossible to obtain the exact coordinates of the targets.
    Therefore, now we need to make the most of the basic combat qualities of the UAV. It's too early to dream of "star wars" with their participation.
    1. +1
      30 June 2015 02: 48
      That's right, you wrote. hi
      The only thing I will correct at the expense of catapults. On the part of the Yak 38 (141) aircraft, they are also controlled not by a person (more precisely, the pilot himself can also eject), but by automation. Since the pilot will not always be able to make the decision to leave the aircraft during vertical flight / landing. With certain inconsistencies between the "roll" and the steering wheel (if the memory does not change +/- 20 degrees), which clearly indicates a problem, the catapult worked automatically, without the participation of the pilot.
  11. +1
    28 June 2015 11: 42
    We are closing the gap in the field of electronics and robotics - we’ll also catch up with drones.
    1. +2
      28 June 2015 20: 59
      Quote: friend of animals
      We are closing the gap in the field of electronics and robotics - we’ll also catch up with drones.

      And here, Grandfather Mazay, the most interesting. In the Soviet and especially in the late Soviet period, we had excellent algorithms, but the largest microcircuits in the world, which somehow made it possible to stay on the same level. But in the 90s, and without their own electronics, there were programmers who went west, who drank, who died, who changed their sphere of activity, and breakthrough software for a penny went to the side of the portners along with rights (for example, the Ka-50 the most perfect radio electronic support at that time, which Filipps got with all the rights). You can even figure it out, if time is given, which partners may not allow us to. And for modern drones of potential and probable opponents, especially when there are a lot of them, destroying a dozen launch Topol or Yars, even if they spent a hundred drones on it, would be a very acceptable result. And the suppression of air defense by drones is also a topic for deep thought.
  12. +1
    28 June 2015 14: 22
    Is it interesting that our electronic warfare systems are capable of repulsing not a single, but a mass attack of shock drones? Are such exercises conducted? Can our air defense reflect the mass launch of cruise missiles not from land and sea, but from air from small-sized carriers?
    1. +1
      28 June 2015 15: 40
      Quote: Smoke
      Interestingly

      In VA VKO and NII-2 in Tver there is a whole laboratory with a powerful modeling complex "Spectrum" and a large staff of military scientists. This is something like a game of strategy, only this modeling complex contains real performance characteristics of all available means of our own and the enemy, as well as a powerful mathematical apparatus. When I was studying there, we "played" mainly in the region of the Kola Peninsula. Apparently, it is precisely those calculations that are now used in plans for the creation of an Arctic group of forces and the priority development of electronic warfare means.
      The Strategic Missile Forces have a similar system, only it works almost automatically, in a split second it calculates the best option for a retaliatory strike. Therefore, Americans out of habit get upset, but they are really very afraid. Understand that in which case kirdyk them in any situation.
    2. +2
      28 June 2015 18: 16
      try to kill Tomahokov with an electronic warhead. If possible, you can drop a swarm of UAVs.
      1. +2
        28 June 2015 18: 29
        Quote: MACCABI-TLV
        If possible, you can drop a swarm of UAVs.

        Well, let's not be so categorical. First, this swarm of UAVs should be created, equipped with "brains", armed, and given sufficient survivability (speed, stealth, maneuverability). At the same time, communication and coordination within the swarm should be ensured. As well as communication with the command In general, an equation with an infinite number of unknowns.
        1. +2
          28 June 2015 19: 18
          Quote: NEXUS
          .This swarm of UAVs must first be created, equipped


          Quote: NEXUS
          At the same time, provide communication and coordination within the swarm. As well as communication with the command post. In general, an equation with an infinite number of unknowns.

          http://geektimes.ru/post/249140/
          unknown - a wagon and a small truck, but everyone is working on it, and the United States and ours, and Europeans.
  13. kara tabin
    0
    28 June 2015 16: 44
    As Minister of Defense, Sergei Ivanov vetoed the production of drones. And now he steers the head of the presidential administration. Mediocrity, a gray personality, doing nothing, caused such harm to the country!
  14. +1
    28 June 2015 22: 04
    Quote: AlNikolaich
    Perhaps it will be electronic warfare, or something new ...

    Duc that's just the point, these are UNMNs and they can't switch to manual operation with broadband jamming, so I think the problem is far-fetched from the sky, well, nobody canceled the topic of "Autobase" hi
  15. Dam
    +2
    29 June 2015 01: 37
    SOI already created? Does PRO also work? Another bluff
  16. +1
    29 June 2015 06: 21
    The article is controversial ....
  17. 0
    29 June 2015 15: 35
    And in my opinion, it is impossible not to underestimate catching up always worse than getting ahead or, in the end, having an answer to a possible threat. What about how long does it take to travel?
    Think of computers the size of a floor and modern phones with 4 cores that fit on the palm of your hand. All the way to the memory of the 70s generation
  18. -1
    29 June 2015 23: 26
    Yes, what kind of armher and swarms of drones. The article clearly states that the cost of one device reaches 200-300 lemons. They can’t deliver four dozens of ordinary aircraft to the B VS, and you are talking about thousands of millions of drones.
  19. 0
    30 June 2015 08: 34
    This I mean that they will not be able to massively use drones. And they will be knocked down by conventional means P V O.ONI, because there are pragmatic cruise missiles cheap e.
  20. 0
    1 July 2015 17: 08
    A UAV is remotely controlled by a person, respectively. An UAV does not need to launch expensive air-to-air missiles. It is enough to simply disable the UAV using electronic warfare equipment.
  21. 0
    5 July 2015 02: 21
    Quote: AlNikolaich
    Perhaps it will be electronic warfare, or something new ...


    Or recall the developments of the 50-60s, anti-aircraft guns of increased power with a high projectile speed. Especially now that there are good guidance systems.