Concern "Kalashnikov" presented a new gun on the "Army-2015"

259
The Kalashnikov Concern, part of Rostec State Corporation, for the first time presented the prototype of the new 2015х9mm PL-19 pistol (Lebedev's Pistol) at the International Military-Technical Forum Army - 14. The concept of a pistol was developed in conjunction with experts of the power structures of Russia and leading shooters - athletes of our country.



The key difference of the “PL-14” from other modern analogues is its ergonomics and balance, which most fully correspond to the modern concepts of human biomechanics and the production of an accurate shot. Special attention should be paid to the unique aesthetics of the gun.
"The universality of the gun will allow you to use it not only as a combat weapon for the army and the police, but also as a sports pistol for competitions of a different class - said Alexey Krivoruchko, general director of the Kalashnikov Concern. “For the variability of the use of the pistol by the arrows of the special forces, we intend to release various versions with altered characteristics of the firing mechanism, as well as to make modifications that will allow it to be used in sports competitions.”

The design of the gun takes into account the important parameters of the overall mass characteristics. The gun has a uniquely small thickness in comparison with analogues of this class: 28mm around the handle and 21mm in front of the gun. In addition, the two-way location and configuration of the “PL-14” controls allows you to control the weapon with both right and left hands and makes it comfortable to carry, remove and use. In the design of the gun integrated Picatinny rail.

The methods of calculating the automatics used during the creation of the gun give it a lot of resource, and in combination with the above-mentioned solutions in terms of ergonomics and biomechanics, they make it comfortable for the shooter in terms of recoil, the size of the weapon toss after firing and quick return to the aiming line. These factors contribute to the production of a quick re-shot at the target and the rapid transfer of fire to other targets.

Special attention is paid to the safety of the weapon: the applied solution of the firing mechanism ensures the impossibility of the spontaneous shot of a loaded pistol, even when falling from a great height onto a solid surface. In addition, in the basic version, the descent is made intentionally longer and with greater effort than usual, which will save the shooter from an accidental shot in a stressful situation while keeping your finger on the descent. In the modifications of the gun, intended for highly skilled users (experienced employees of special forces and athletes), the effort and the amount of descent will have smaller values.

In addition, the increased safety of handling the gun is provided by a highly efficient indicator of the presence of a cartridge in the chamber, allowing you to quickly and accurately determine whether the weapon is “groped”. In addition, the indicator has an additional function: in combination with the modified geometry of the chamber, it allows firing of defective cartridges in which the length of the sleeve does not meet the standard.

Caliber, mm 9х19
Length, mm 220
Height, mm 136
Thickness, mm 28
Barrel length, mm 127
Magazine capacity, cartridges 15
Weight without cartridges, kg 0,8
Weight with full magazine kg 0,99
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    1. +43
      16 June 2015 18: 13
      The pistol - for testing, and then replace it with the failed Rook, at which even the specialists with whom they handed him a laugh.
      1. +42
        16 June 2015 18: 30
        Makar they first replace because it is completely outdated.
        1. +82
          16 June 2015 18: 46
          "Kalashnikov" got down to work at Stakhanov's pace! Here you will find traditional automatic weapons, equipment for special forces, boats and drones. Here, we got to the pistols. It looks like the potential of the concern is very powerful. While it is difficult to say whether the mentioned sample turned out to be successful, but one thing is important here - EXPERIENCE! He is known as the son of difficult mistakes, but he is priceless !!! Experience is something that cannot be bought, traded, or stolen. And it is the experience that is especially valuable. Let our clever girls work. Let them try, think, construct. And experts in "Kalashnikov" gathered, apparently, not the most ordinary.
          We will follow.
          1. +39
            16 June 2015 21: 14
            Convenient grip immediately attracts attention - the main condition for accurate shooting. As a former master in bullet shooting from a pistol, I can confirm high-quality ergonomics. We made such pads on the handle ourselves, wooden, then it was quite possible to shoot decently from Margolin.
            By the way, when there was still sport shooting in the RP exercise (revolver), then we conducted a small experiment at the shooting range - we shot from a belt at a swinging tin can. So - nobody came from Margolin (guys - MS and CCM), everything from the revolver.
            That's what comfortable ergonomics mean when the trunk is an extension of the arm.
            1. +2
              17 June 2015 00: 25
              Yes, you immediately notice the departure to sports shooting in ergonomics, which is not a buzz, in fact.
              1. +10
                17 June 2015 01: 06
                I went over the Internet - everywhere they write the same thing about this gun (copy-paste of one article). I did not find on what principle of automation he was conceived.
                Short barrel travel, I think. This is seen through the ejection window of the sleeves, into which part of the barrel enters with a rise. The principle of fixing the barrel is not the same as that of the Swift (its larva moves up and down, while the PL-14 has the rear part of the barrel)


                It seems to be done very carefully than our armourers have not shone lately.
                1. -2
                  17 June 2015 04: 27
                  Barrel stroke ??? Maybe the shutter frame ... and the reflector window ???
                  1. +5
                    17 June 2015 06: 08
                    Judging by the description - complete junk. A tight descent may be necessary, but a long descent is a significant decrease in the quality of the shot and the accuracy of the hit. Whoever was shooting will understand me.
                    1. +4
                      17 June 2015 07: 48
                      Quote: Mahmut
                      Whoever was shooting will understand me.

                      I was engaged, did not understand wink
                      GSh-18 has a very tight and long descent, but nevertheless it is much more heapy than a Viking with a sports descent, a paradox however
                  2. +6
                    17 June 2015 12: 17
                    Quote: meriem1
                    Barrel stroke ??? Maybe the shutter frame ... and the reflector window ???

                    Interesting opinion winked Moreover, at least 3 people supported him.

                    If not difficult, tell me what automation schemes are used in pistols?
                    For example, in PM and Colt (1911)?
                    1. +3
                      17 June 2015 18: 56
                      Quote: Bad_gr
                      Quote: meriem1
                      Barrel stroke ??? Maybe the shutter frame ... and the reflector window ???

                      Interesting opinion winked Moreover, at least 3 people supported him.

                      If not difficult, tell me what automation schemes are used in pistols?
                      For example, in PM and Colt (1911)?

                      Like this always:
                      the specialist came in, threw the phrase about the "reflector window" and stopped sharing information on this sad and sideways asked questions ...
                    2. +1
                      19 June 2015 15: 47
                      In PM, the automation is based on the recoil of the free shutter, in M1911 - on the recoil of the barrel with a short stroke, coupled with the shutter. With a short stroke, the breech of the barrel lowers and disengages from the bolt, and then the bolt moves on its own ....
                  3. 0
                    19 June 2015 15: 42
                    What bolt frame? It's a gun, not an AK ....
              2. +4
                17 June 2015 08: 56
                What is not gut? That the shooter can shoot more accurately? Well, it depends on which side of the sight to be.
                1. 0
                  17 June 2015 09: 46
                  Suppose, "shoot more accurately" is just the right term for stand-ups. The long descent stroke was well noticed, this is one of the features of such structures, by the way. Take a look at the pistol series of Staher Mannlicher, for example. They suffered with Yarygin, with the PM spring, too, there were serious problems at the initial stage, a marriage of 2 to 1 and more often, this is then, after 10 years, they learned to stamp even without jambs. I am skeptical about this news also because in the first 3-5 years (this is the best case) it will be brought up.
            2. +2
              17 June 2015 07: 45
              Quote: Reserve officer
              As a former master of bullet shooting from a pistol I can confirm high-quality ergonomics

              Than something to pain in the eyes reminds works of Khaidurov wink
              1. 0
                17 June 2015 18: 25
                + IZH-XP30 / 31 reminded me too, but it looks more like IZH-35 (naturally outwardly)

                Py.sy. It’s better to open the picture in a separate tab, you can better see hi
                1. 0
                  1 July 2015 22: 17

                  Thanks for the illustration ... hi
            3. +3
              17 June 2015 08: 01
              "As a former master" ... There are no "former" masters wink
              1. +13
                17 June 2015 10: 39
                As a former master "... There are no" former "masters

                There are no former masters of sports. And former masters of shooting or other activities are. And the age is not the same, and eyesight is hooked. The proverb prowess cannot be drunk and it lasts 10-15 years.
                The skill remains, but the skill is no longer there.
                1. +4
                  17 June 2015 13: 09
                  That's exactly what skill as the sum of movements brought up to automatism is lost primarily due to age and lack of practice. And mastery as knowledge-skill remains for a long time, one can say, forever.
              2. +11
                17 June 2015 13: 01
                There are former masters. Not just because he wrote, this is my objective assessment of myself.
                Muscle memory remains, stance and breathing are also normal, but eyes ...
                I shoot purely on technology, plainly not seeing either the target or the fly completely. Glasses do not help. I hit the target, I don’t go out of the black circle, but I can’t talk about the result. This is no longer a skill.
                To my great regret.
                1. +3
                  17 June 2015 13: 16
                  Clarify the concept of "skill" for yourself. Mastery is what is in the brain and spinal cord.
                  "I shoot purely for technique" is skill.
                  1. +2
                    17 June 2015 13: 59
                    Mastery, do not drink))) drinks
                2. 0
                  18 June 2015 19: 25
                  sorry ... the same picture. I don’t go out of black, but when shooting at the silhouette it’s a very decent result, it’s a pity that the MP-8 was removed ... belay
            4. +2
              17 June 2015 10: 57
              I agree with you Alex. hi
              I also drew attention to the angle of the handle and the grip in many ways reminiscent of the "Glock" and "Parabellum" the flatness of the trajectory of the shot and the convenience finally became inherent in our gunsmiths. Of course, this is a "Rough" version, but I would like the main parameters (in terms of ergonomics) to be preserved in the final version. Another question about the caliber of the pistol ... 9 * 19 seems to be outdated, I would like to see this weapon under the caliber -
              9 × 21 mm (for the army). And 9 * 19 mm (reinforced 9 * 19) and 9 * 18 mm are good for employees of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
              1. +3
                17 June 2015 13: 28
                I once had a chance to hold in my hands a lot of things, including the REAL "Parabellum" during the war! In my opinion - only his grip angle and grip can serve as a model for any pistol! The rest - just do not hold out ...
                1. +1
                  17 June 2015 14: 01
                  My favorite is still Walter p-38. How can it become obsolete?
              2. 0
                1 July 2015 22: 18
                Like something like Berdysh from Stechkin?
            5. 0
              19 June 2015 13: 44
              I don’t know what kind of MC and CCM they were - from “Margolin” everything always went where I was aiming. Its ergonomics is much higher than that of the "Nagant". Although it's hard to miss from the latter ...
          2. +1
            17 June 2015 06: 37
            Quote: Stalevar
            Here you have the traditional automatic weapons, and equipment for special forces, and boats, and drones. Here, we got to the pistols


            This is not surprising, because a concern, which includes a bunch of enterprises, and not just Izhmash. The same can be said about UVZ - also a concern (correctly a corporation), also a bunch of enterprises (30 in 6 countries), and not just a site in Nizhny Tagil. UVZ also buys new (old) assets!
          3. 0
            17 June 2015 13: 56
            This, of course, can not but rejoice. But you should not keep all the eggs in one basket. The shoemaker bakes pies, and the stitch boots bake the pie?
          4. 0
            18 June 2015 11: 19
            Stalevar: Of course, I apologize that it’s not the topic, but the feeling that this blueish figs was sent to us by forum users. smile
        2. +13
          16 June 2015 18: 48
          The pistol concept was developed jointly with specialists from the power structures of Russia and leading shooters - athletes of our country.

          I am glad that direct users took part in the development.
        3. +17
          16 June 2015 19: 28
          Yes, a normal gun! I liked the PM! And open the beer and hit it with a handle if that. Also shoots!
          1. +22
            16 June 2015 20: 42
            Quote: boozer
            Yes, a normal gun! I liked the PM! And open the beer and hit it with a handle if that. Also shoots!

            Well, let's say, he shoots first of all ... And it's not very bad (if the hands are not out of jo ..) I have been serving with "Makar" for 20 years ... But I would like the "old man" to be replaced by GSH-18 ... At least in the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
            1. +4
              16 June 2015 21: 24
              It is necessary in GS-18 to apply those materials that are provided for by the design documentation and will not be equal to it.
            2. +3
              17 June 2015 00: 13
              I completely agree with the esteemed Prapor-527 there is a wonderful sample that has passed the PREDICTED GI (If anyone has any comments on working with the GSH-18, please respond ???). Implement, modify, no, they are inventing the "bicycle". will the lobby be formed? who will arrange kickbacks? Who needs it all? There is such a financial pie (GOZ) is divided.
              1. +4
                17 June 2015 04: 46
                Here is a review of an authoritative person on the GSH http://karden.livejournal.com/36711.html
              2. +2
                17 June 2015 22: 56
                Gesha - 18. An excellent tool !!! More than excellent !!!
          2. +1
            16 June 2015 20: 56
            You yourself prioritized the functions .... And shoots it all says.
            1. +12
              16 June 2015 21: 08
              If there was a discussion, then let's do this. What is a gun? Why is it needed. Definitely a weapon of self-defense! Worldwide. We will not go in cycles on features of this or that gun. All 20-25 meters have an effective distance. Bullet departure speed is almost the same for everyone. 350-360 m / s The use of 9mm bullets with energy up to 500kJ is more than enough for a stopping action. Simplicity and reliability. A poorly trained shooter can handle PM. Glock-17 standard, well, I don’t know, lightweight, plastic, no fuses, everything was simplified there ... PM is not worse. An old model who argues, but not bad, is true.
              1. +2
                16 June 2015 21: 39
                Quote: boozer
                The standard is Glock-17, I don’t know, it’s lightweight, plastic, there are no fuses, everything was simplified there ... PM is no worse. An old model who argues, but not bad, is true.

                As for the PM, one cannot but agree ...
              2. +2
                17 June 2015 16: 54
                Quote: boozer
                Standard Glock-17, I don’t know, lightweight, plastic, no fuses,

                Seriously?
                To ensure the simplest possible handling of weapons, the Austrians refused manual fuses, leaving only automatic fuses.
              3. The comment was deleted.
              4. +1
                19 June 2015 15: 46
                Quote: boozer
                The standard is Glock-17, I don’t know, it’s lightweight, plastic, there are no fuses, everything was simplified there ... PM is no worse. An old model who argues, but not bad, is true.


                I don’t agree on Glock’s score, I shot from many Glocks, 17, 19, 20. After Glock 19, Makarov seemed to me the best gun in the world! It is certainly lightweight, ergonomic, but its recoil is a nightmare!

                ps And in 2 different shooting galleries, the glock 17 wedged, with the rejection of the sleeve!
                1. 0
                  5 July 2015 17: 07
                  Quote: Geemini
                  ps And in 2 different shooting galleries, the glock 17 wedged, with the rejection of the sleeve!

                  ...
        4. 0
          18 June 2015 05: 10
          Quote: Alex_Rarog
          Makar they first replace because it is completely outdated.

          Alexander hi ! Makar was created for "his" time. Now there are other requirements and the war is no longer the same. Makar (patron) is only a plus for a minimum of recochet. IMHO!
        5. +1
          19 June 2015 15: 39
          Makarov is a very good pistol, of course it is not "modern" outwardly, but it is difficult to replace Makarov, very reliable and in the right hands, an accurate pistol, small in size. Makarov has only 1 very significant disadvantage! This is a store replacement! Of course, I understand that this is reliable, but quickly changing the store in battle is extremely difficult!
        6. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        16 June 2015 18: 54
        Quote: Basarev
        and then replace them with a failed Rook

        first, you still need to pass these tests. It is somehow not convenient even to remember about the "swift".
        1. +2
          16 June 2015 19: 01
          Quote: bunta
          first, you still need to pass these tests. It is somehow not convenient even to remember about the "swift".


          Purely visually, in the photo in the article an expensive and high-quality gun. Swift looks simpler. If the reliability and resource will be the case as with the appearance, then I will choose a black gun from this article.
          1. +5
            16 June 2015 19: 39
            Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
            The photos in the article are an expensive and high-quality gun.

            You read the article carefully:

            2015 first introduced prototype new pistol caliber 9x19mm "PL-14"


            It is necessary to explain what a prototype is and what letter has technical documentation on it?
            Let's remember other "prototypes" that the concern has been hanging out in the form of noodles since the defeat of Izhmash? For example bullpup AC-1 and AC-2?
            1. +5
              16 June 2015 19: 44
              Quote: bunta
              It is necessary to explain what a prototype is and what letter has technical documentation on it?
              Let's remember other "prototypes" that the concern has been hanging out in the form of noodles since the defeat of Izhmash? For example bullpup AC-1 and AC-2?

              Well, I’ve come - and all the raspberries ... There’s no bosom in life ... laughing
              1. 0
                16 June 2015 20: 05
                Quote: iConst
                Well, I’ve come - and all the raspberries ... There’s no bosom in life ... laughing


                It’s very difficult to break me, so don’t worry about it.
                1. 0
                  17 June 2015 14: 06
                  By the way! And what did the Chinese defile at the parade?
                  1. 0
                    5 July 2015 17: 15
                    QBZ-95, QBZ-97 ... Our Kalash bullpup ...
              2. +4
                16 June 2015 20: 32
                Well, here's another:
                Quote: iConst
                In addition, the indicator has an additional function: in combination with the modified geometry of the chamber, it makes it possible to shoot defective cartridges in which the length of the sleeve does not meet the standard.


                Changed chamber geometry? The geometry of the chamber is determined by the cartridge and what and how was "changed" there? But this is not the main thing. Here is:
                [b] the ability to shoot defective cartridges [/ b]
                that is, it is recognized that the cartridges [b] do not match [/ b. Interestingly, those glocks that purchased for the FSB at frantic prices have passed the test of cartridges that do not meet the standard?
                1. 0
                  16 June 2015 21: 31
                  So what about Swift, will he shoot or not?
                  1. +1
                    16 June 2015 22: 04
                    The expert merged ... laughing
            2. +2
              16 June 2015 19: 55
              It is necessary to explain what a prototype is and what letter has technical documentation on it?
              Let's remember other "prototypes" that the concern has been hanging out in the form of noodles since the defeat of Izhmash? For example bullpup AC-1 and AC-2?


              "Strizh" also went in prototypes for a long time. I see nothing wrong with good prototypes. And Strizh strains me with a non-standard locking scheme. How will she behave in operation? After all, no one knows this in advance. Remington also proposed his own scheme of sealing, fiddling with his customers and recalling the pistols in the end, and curtailed production. After all, such an option is possible?
          2. 0
            16 June 2015 20: 29
            Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
            then I will choose a black gun from this article.

            It's not about the color of the product, but about always hitting the "color"! Time will tell how much the presented copy will confirm its characteristics!
            1. +2
              16 June 2015 20: 42
              Quote: Tol100v
              It's not about the color of the product, but about always hitting the "color"! Time will tell how much the presented copy will confirm its characteristics!


              And where is the color? Just a black gun in the photo. Characteristics can expand due to special cartridges. Now there are already armor-piercing, and sub-caliber 9X19 calibers. The dimensions of a standard gun cannot be changed too much. There are certain size and weight restrictions for pistols.

              And the color ... the sig-sauer of all colors of the rainbow fires pistols. But first, they set up the production and sale of black ones, but of high quality. Paints are now produced in the most incredible colors and it is not a problem to repaint. You can also "rave" the old fashioned way.
      3. +23
        16 June 2015 19: 29
        I still hoped that they would accept GSH-18 ... Well, he loves me.
        1. +1
          16 June 2015 19: 40
          Quote: Prapor-527
          Prapor-527 RU Today, 19: 29 ↑ New

          I still hoped that they would accept GSH-18 ... Well, he loves me.

          I liked OTs 27 feel
          1. 0
            16 June 2015 19: 47
            Quote: Horst78
            I liked OTs 27

            27 is the essence of the cult (poop) classic in appearance. IMHO.
            1. +1
              16 June 2015 19: 52
              Quote: iConst
              iConst (2) IS Today, 19: 47 ↑ New

              Quote: Horst78
              I liked OTs 27

              27 is the essence of the cult (poop) classic in appearance. IMHO.

              More ChZ-75 / 85 reminds me more smile Also "cult" among "friends" hi
              1. 0
                16 June 2015 20: 02
                Quote: Horst78
                ChZ-75/85 reminds me more. Also "cult" among "friends"

                Well, yes, the classic trigger. Killer thing. hi
                1. 0
                  16 June 2015 20: 28
                  Quote: iConst
                  Well, yes, the classic trigger. Killer thing. hi

                  No wonder Tanfoglio transformed it into a sports model. smile increasing production accuracy to microns
              2. +2
                16 June 2015 20: 13
                And what does GSh-18 remind of? Externally or technically?
                1. +1
                  18 June 2015 14: 35
                  From this position it will be clearly visible how the bullet moves along the barrel.
            2. 0
              16 June 2015 20: 04
              Quote: iConst
              Quote: Horst78
              I liked OTs 27

              27 is the essence of the cult (poop) classic in appearance. IMHO.

              I like GS-18, OC-27 and SPS. Of automatic-OC-33
        2. +4
          16 June 2015 19: 43
          Quote: Prapor-527
          I still hoped that they would accept GSH-18 ... Well, he loves me.
          Why not ? GSh - 18 is still lighter and more compact than PL - 14, and there are 4 more rounds in the store. By the way, the American army refuses the "Beretta M9" precisely because of the large weight (980 g)
          Performance characteristics

          Caliber................................................. ............... 9 mm
          Chuck ....................... 9 × 19 Lugger, 7H31 and 7H21
          Mass of weapons without ammunition ....................... 0,59 kg
          Length................................................. ........... 183,5 mm
          Barrel length ................................................ ..103 mm
          Bullet speed
          at a distance of 10 m ............................... 535-570 m / s
          Combat rate of fire .......... 15-20 rds / min
          Magazine capacity ................................ 18 cartridges
          1. +3
            16 June 2015 20: 39
            I was also strained in the submarine "weight without cartridges 0.8 kg." Somehow a bit too much by modern standards
          2. +6
            16 June 2015 21: 16
            Quote: enot73
            Why not ? GSh - 18 is still lighter and more compact than PL - 14, and there are 4 more rounds in the store. By the way, the American army refuses the "Beretta M9" precisely because of the large weight (980 g)

            Gryazev P.V., Shipunov A.G ... It's just that the talent of these greatest gunsmiths puts the GSh-18 at a rank higher than other models ...
          3. 0
            18 June 2015 00: 49
            Quote: enot73
            By the way, the American army refuses the "Beretta M9" precisely because of the large weight

            as far as I know, they have not yet refused, but expressed a desire to increase the caliber by at least .40.
        3. +8
          16 June 2015 19: 53
          probably only "spetsure" will be left ... for them and made to replace "Stechkin" ... I like him too ...
        4. +3
          16 June 2015 19: 56
          I work with the GSh-Miracle machine!
          1. +1
            18 June 2015 14: 39
            Are you sure that you "work" with the General Staff? Here I had two of them (one after the other) somehow got rid of. Now I have a PY (6P35) and, oddly enough, I'm happy with it.
            I have already written about my epic with the General Staff in other articles on "VO" I will not repeat myself.
            1. 0
              18 June 2015 17: 16
              Quote: Hell Angel
              So I had two of them (one after another) somehow got rid of.

              And where are the weapons distributed? Directly at will, asked and given? Seemingly rich office ... And then even "Vympelovtsy" after the beginning of the FSB are running around to knock out "sweets", but they do not allocate money for articles, the law does not allow. And here, as simply took and got rid of, then got a new one, lafa and not service ... Do you give out there on demand?
              1. 0
                19 June 2015 10: 27
                FSB General Staff does not buy (and rightly so). And he did not "take it and get rid of it," but asked to be "removed" from me, that's all. It was just then that PYa and Glock arrived. For Glock, "the muzzle did not come out" and the PY was given.
                1. 0
                  19 June 2015 11: 31
                  Quote: angel of hell
                  FSB General Staff does not buy (and rightly so). And he did not "take it and get rid of it," but asked to be "removed" from me, that's all. It was just then that PYa and Glock arrived. For Glock, "the muzzle did not come out" and the PY was given.

                  This is generally some kind of extravaganza, not a security agency, but a "wish fulfillment bureau" asked to be removed, asked to be given. Do you have genies or goldfish who do not care about supply norms? Circus and nothing else. By the way, the FSOs in Novosibirsk have been armed with the General Staff since February of this year, and finally they were replaced by PMs. Hike you and "shooter54" kindred people, as they say, do not move sacks, but people are already eating, especially who are not in the know. Interestingly you have there probably a club for "interests". Who repubs whom **** t.
                  1. +1
                    19 June 2015 18: 29
                    Verum shouldn't be rude. There was already one such on this topic. Then he was convinced and seemed to shut up. By the way, one of these FSOshnikov my GSh and tested when the question of what to take on board was being decided. As you understand, the weight, dimensions and convenience of long-term wearing are almost in the first place for these guys. The General Staff of "our" has no competitors.
                    This is generally some kind of extravaganza, not a security agency, but a "wish fulfillment bureau" asked to be removed, asked to be given. Do you have genies or goldfish who do not care about supply norms?
                    Wiring by the way for snotty boys. Type throw in a personal photo that I believed, etc. Here, people like you are a little grazed. Which of you?
                    1. 0
                      20 June 2015 17: 32
                      Quote: Hell Angel
                      There was already one such on this topic.

                      That's just not one laughing
                      Quote: Hell Angel
                      . Then he became convinced and seemed to shut up.

                      What deals with a dreamer? yes, and quite a while ago. laughing
                      Quote: Hell Angel
                      Wiring by the way for snotty boys. Type throw in a personal photo that I believed, etc.

                      Let it be for you, this interests no one anymore, especially since the odd stationary IP from which you access the network during business hours is located in the Novosibirsk Municipal Administration - this is where modern people in black change clothes several times a day for Yarygin and then to Glock and back. laughing

                      Well, let’s, hunt the baiting off another heart-breaking story of the type as about a torn chamber in the IED or about the position of instructor in the Novosibirsk Practical Shooting Federation laughing
                      PS you finally found out what substitute cards are and the procedure for assigning weapons to employees, or still think that you can come to the uncle in charge of armaments by tapping your finger in the picture in the magazine and in a week he will bring it to you and just let it play until you get bored ? laughing
                    2. 0
                      28 June 2015 12: 24
                      Quote: Hell Angel
                      Which of you?

                      Of those who simply cannot be divorced! You will fill people not in the subject for "stoparik" in order to increase personal self-esteem. And there are plenty of talkers like you here, you can organize a board of "honor". It would be necessary to turn to the demiurge to mark the shoulder straps in this way in red.
                      Quote: Hell Angel
                      Then he became convinced and seemed to shut up.

                      I read the comments in which they tear you like a "hot water bottle", and how stupidly you throw commentators into the "black list", "a true fighter of a special training center", "a veteran of many companies and" shooter-instructor "IPSC Novosibirsk region" and this can be continued enough long.
                      Quote: Hell Angel
                      By the way, one of these FSO officers was my GS and tested when the question of what to put into service was being decided.

                      They made me laugh ... Only the servicemen have no right to choose what they give to those and fight. Even the FSO and other units of the FSB, for all their apparent steepness, have the weapons that are accepted for service and are controlled by the government, and for a non-standard barrel, you can then breed "three geese". And what "GSh" did you test? What awful dream? As I understand it, you were a tough pepper.
                      Quote: Hell Angel
                      Wiring by the way for snotty boys. Type throw in a personal photo that I believed, etc.

                      This is a wiring for "real guys", because they will never be able to prove their reality that they claim. And as far as I understand, of these "real guys" one of the "coolest".
        5. 0
          16 June 2015 20: 02
          By the way, yes, why didn’t the GSH go? They seem to have even been awarded ...
          1. +1
            18 June 2015 14: 40
            Awarded. I saw with the inscription ..... In short, the deputy.
        6. wanderer_032
          +6
          16 June 2015 20: 28
          Quote: Prapor-527
          I still hoped that they would accept GSH-18 ... Well, he loves me.


          Great gun. Only here is the additional equipment of the most common sample (under the Picktinni bar) there is nowhere to attach to it. In this he loses to more modern competitors.
          But only in this. Maybe it's worth finalizing the GSh-18 frame?
          1. 0
            17 June 2015 14: 12
            Gram 150 will dial)))
        7. +2
          16 June 2015 20: 51
          I also agree that it looks more comfortable in the hand. I shot from the PM, but I have a short and wide palm and it was inconvenient to shoot from it.
      4. +2
        16 June 2015 19: 48
        Quote: Basarev
        A gun for testing

        From the beginning - tests. But not by factory specialists, but by all power structures! But then, after an objective and independent ASSESSMENT, it will be possible to talk about its application and its aesthetics! Not to mention dual use! Or war, or sports! It doesn't work that way. This is a mockery of the "managers"! Either you make a good military weapon, or cheap and for sale! And if a good product is made, then you need to take it seriously. BUT again through trials! After all, who do not ask: -What will you take? (to work) TT and Stechkin, sometimes Beretta. Glock and GSH-18, where are THEY ?!
        1. 0
          18 June 2015 00: 10
          And who produces them? Who used in the field, in dust, in water with mud. Without regular lubrication. Pontoons of factory testers are not an argument. In Syria, check.
      5. +4
        16 June 2015 21: 03
        But I don't care about the comments, I'll try to speculate about the pistol itself based on the photo: The first thing that catches your eye is the very narrow rear part. So on the outstretched arm it will be at the level of the forearm as much as possible. That is to say, to be an extension of the hand. This means only one thing that the pistol will give a small return, and this accordingly increases the accuracy. Because the recoil will "go to the bone" Well, but about the rate of fire and reliability, I naturally cannot judge from the photo. Sincerely, Observer 2014.
      6. +1
        16 June 2015 23: 11
        The duck is also a good bird. Can fly, swim and walk. And what did the usual "makar" not please? Is that one third shorter and a quarter lighter?
      7. 0
        17 June 2015 06: 39
        Strange, I thought the Rooks had been replaced by GSH-18 ...
    2. +3
      16 June 2015 18: 14
      It looks original.
      1. 0
        16 June 2015 18: 49
        Quote: st25310
        It looks original.

        Oh?
        1. +5
          16 June 2015 18: 52
          But the location of the barrel and the angle of the handle of the PL-14 were reminded more of Steyr M.
          1. +1
            17 June 2015 08: 24
            So it reminded me too, they pulled out straight from under the "Claudia". It is, and it was produced in my opinion in the year 2001.
            The words "unique" and "unparalleled" are already beginning to irritate.
        2. 0
          16 June 2015 18: 56
          So, "its ergonomics and balance, which most fully correspond to modern concepts of human biomechanics," did not make any revolution.
          All hope for innovation in mechanics, reliability and cost efficiency. For the mass supply of troops, this will be more important than "biomechanics". And about the "insides" and really important characteristics in the article - not a word. winked
        3. 0
          17 June 2015 14: 17
          Quote: Vasek
          Oh?

          The caracal design has a rare guano. Izhevsky is much more elegant and stricter, here they correctly noticed the look of an expensive device
          1. +2
            17 June 2015 16: 40
            Quote: Locksmith
            The caracal design has a rare guano. Izhevsk is much more elegant

            Try the specifications to compare.
            I don’t advertise an Austrian product here, for me - my native Makarych, as part of the body, I’ve been with him for 25 years side by side.
            But the fact that Glock is the world champion today can only be a fool to dispute.
            And there’s nothing to be ashamed of learning from champions.
    3. +5
      16 June 2015 18: 14
      An interesting novelty. Weight, according to modern requirements, is too big. But not too much. Oh, to shoot!
      1. +2
        16 June 2015 18: 30
        More goods, good and different! good
      2. 0
        16 June 2015 18: 55
        Quote: Mountain Shooter
        An interesting novelty. Weight, according to modern requirements, is too big.

        Requirements - in the studio!
        How much is noona? smile
        1. +3
          16 June 2015 19: 01
          Judging by the appearance - the trunk is very low set to the index finger. So there will be less bullying.

          And the weight is normal - otherwise someone’s thread will have a frame printed on their forehead.

          There is a video on the net - a girl shoots from a DI .50 caliber and gets a lobeshnik - tin!
          1. +5
            16 June 2015 19: 04
            Quote: iConst
            There is a video on the net - a girl shoots from a DI .50 caliber and gets a lobeshnik - tin!

            He gets the job ... Well, who showed her such a stance?
            1. +4
              16 June 2015 19: 42
              It seemed to me, or is she in the elbow with the muscles of the Hulk? what belay
            2. +3
              18 June 2015 10: 14
              Well, excuse her wrong with the stance? The fact that a woman of this complexion got her nose after a shot from a hellish .50AE caliber pistol, in my opinion, is quite natural, but the fact that even after that she quickly removed her finger from the trigger and the barrel continued to look towards the target, and not where towards the operator, for example, this is what you need to pay attention to.
          2. 0
            16 June 2015 19: 10
            And the weight is normal - otherwise someone’s thread will have a frame printed on their forehead.

            and often the Glock frame is printed on the foreheads?
            1. +1
              16 June 2015 19: 31
              Quote: Sukhoi
              and often the Glock frame is printed on the foreheads?

              I do not know - + P did not try to shoot. One thread, but catch. smile

              Only at the 17th barrel 114 mm, and here 127. Glock, it turns out, should jump sharper.
              1. +1
                16 June 2015 19: 47
                Responsibly I declare to you - - with Glock everything is OK, the forehead is intact))
                1. +1
                  16 June 2015 19: 55
                  Quote: Sukhoi
                  Responsibly I declare to you - - with Glock everything is OK, the forehead is intact))

                  But I do not believe: send a photo! smile

                  17th nice machine. My daughter for the very first time naughty about half a hundred shots, and - nothing! smile
                  But from the M-16 could not - the strength was not enough ...
        2. 0
          16 June 2015 20: 41
          Just compare with the same GSh
      3. 0
        18 June 2015 00: 18
        * And you can load a 9 * 21 cartridge. I think that it was originally prepared for it.
    4. +3
      16 June 2015 18: 17
      Interesting machine. How will she behave in various conditions? I hope that, as well as the legendary AK. good
    5. +2
      16 June 2015 18: 18
      "Almaz" is developing a new ship based on the export project "Tiger" ... "Concern" Kalashnikov "presented a new pistol at" Army-2015 "...", Two types of digital devices for equipment "Ratnik" will soon be launched in series ... "
      Cheerfully! Impressive! Thank you, as in the time of L.I. Brezhnev is back .. crying Shocking, does not roll over ?! The next party congress, just around the corner ?!
      1. +3
        16 June 2015 18: 31
        All for science! By expanent!
        1. +2
          16 June 2015 19: 05
          The exhibitor is the only solution to the differential equation ...! hi To Russia, not applicable ...
          1. +1
            16 June 2015 20: 44
            Quote: ALABAY45
            The exhibitor is the only solution to the differential equation ...! To Russia, not applicable ...

            Diff the equations are not only not applicable, but also very dangerous for those who apply! They are weak in arithmetic! And you want to teach them, not even the Higher, but the secondary mathematics! Apparently the applicant will not pass the competition, his brains are either wrong or missing!
            1. -1
              17 June 2015 14: 24
              Do not tell)))) On our Avos Russia has been holding on for centuries)))))
      2. +1
        16 June 2015 18: 35
        I think they’re getting ready, in time ...
    6. 0
      16 June 2015 18: 19
      They didn’t really decide on the guns, but with the guns there was a big mess, a lot of options, good and different. Kalashnikovs preoccupied themselves.
    7. +2
      16 June 2015 18: 19
      quickly and accurately determine whether the weapon is loaded by touch. In addition, the indicator has an additional function: in combination with the modified geometry of the chamber, it makes it possible to shoot defective cartridges in which the length of the sleeve does not meet the standard.


      Additional amenities in battle save not only time, often life depends on them.
      1. +10
        16 June 2015 19: 07
        Quote: bronik
        Additional amenities in battle save not only time, often life depends on them.

        You yourself at least understand that praise. An indicator of the presence of a cartridge in the barrel was available on almost all trunks adopted for service, starting with Luger-08. Of course, the indicator is tactile, not LED or voice.
        The paragraph about the ability to shoot low-quality cartridges delights without specifying how much the cartridge case can be longer than the standard for the safe use of weapons (I hope not 5-7 times).
        Bringing some ergonomic advantages of the pistol grip there is ridiculous in that everyone has different hands. Serious companies provide a set of pads that can adjust the gun for themselves (approximately, understandably). For athletes - an individual fit. And the author has two sacred sizes that turn around the whole world organization (betrayed by a bastard!) ...
        Like the described one (of course, I’m just discussing an article that doesn’t describe anything at all, the author himself hardly had a gun in his hands), hundreds of models are produced in the world as a masterpiece ...
        1. +2
          16 June 2015 20: 55
          Quote: uwzek
          the author himself hardly held a gun in his hands

          That's for sure.
    8. +4
      16 June 2015 18: 22
      It looks really nice. No sharp corners. And they thought about the thickness. Even this ugly pmcatini got licked.
      1. 0
        16 June 2015 18: 33
        To naughty would be free to check out the whip!
    9. avt
      +6
      16 June 2015 18: 22
      request Is das you? It turns out that everything about PYa is complete shit, which they did not bother to bring to mind in high-quality production with the interchangeability of parts and stores from different manufacturers, the truth is ... They would have taken just OTs-27 Stechkin or something, or Pernach. , well, if the GSh-18 is slowing down, but the Izhevsk residents will never give up this topic to the Tula people, even if they make a blaster or something that shoots antimatter in a pocket version. No. negative Well, there is no REALLY independent competition on this topic and, again, INDEPENDENT tests, as well as strict control over the QUALITY of manufacture.
      1. +2
        16 June 2015 18: 51
        Quote: avt
        t, but the Izhevsk campaign for Tula residents is a pistol, they will never give it up, even if they make some kind of blaster

        Laser others have taken. what
        LT-110PYA - training "laser gun Yarygin" based on the MMG pistol Yarygin (with a laser emitter LT-510 - visible red beam, pulsed operation). Production of LaserTrade LLC (St. Petersburg, Russia)
      2. +1
        16 June 2015 21: 01
        Quote: avt
        Well, there is no REALLY independent competition on this topic and, again, INDEPENDENT tests, as well as strict control over the QUALITY of manufacture.

        Until these conditions are met, good weapons can not be expected! there will simply be a vested war on our internal arms market, which is already looking into the abyss!
    10. +7
      16 June 2015 18: 24
      It seems literate. It is immediately clear that the athletes participated in the creation. You can discuss for a long time about the angle of inclination of the handle, to make various arguments, but a combat pistol with a sports handle has the right to life. Now the shooter can train on sports weapons, and picking up a combat one quickly adapts to it. Although, opponents will throw stones and prove that universality suffers.

      I will remain of the opinion that a good weapon should itself be asked in its hands and help in aiming.
      1. +3
        16 June 2015 19: 13
        Quote: Mayor_Vikhr
        that a good weapon should itself be asked in hand and help in aiming.

        A good weapon should ALWAYS shoot, about where you aim. The rest is secondary, like gilding ...
        1. 0
          16 June 2015 19: 33
          Quote: uwzek
          A good weapon should ALWAYS shoot, about where you aim. The rest is secondary, like gilding ...

          If you know simple answers to difficult questions, then answer why American officers and athletes prefer a gun of the beginning of the 20th century to modern sophisticated plastic pistols of the latest generations? Modern doesn’t shoot about where you aim? laughing
        2. +1
          16 June 2015 19: 36
          Quote: uwzek
          A good weapon should ALWAYS shoot, about where you aim.

          Weapons of the future must shoot exactly where they thought. Kind of like in "Indomitable Planet" by G. Harrison. smile

          The main thing is to control your thoughts and not think badly about your mother-in-law. laughing
          1. +1
            16 June 2015 21: 07
            Quote: iConst
            Weapons of the future must shoot exactly where they thought. Kind of like in "Indomitable Planet" by G. Harrison.

            Thank you very much for the author’s memory! BUT! , It will be difficult for you even without a mother-in-law! You won’t stop a thought, but there goals, you won’t change your mind in a year!
    11. +1
      16 June 2015 18: 37
      All that has been adopted today ... in a fair fight, the PMM lost on the topic Rook.
      Appearance like a'la West, like a pseudo Glock ... mounting bar ... which prevents this from being done on PMM.
      In contrast, the PMM system has been tested for decades.
      The feeling that money is excessive, do not know where to go.
      1. +5
        16 June 2015 19: 19
        Quote: Strashila
        The feeling that money is excessive, do not know where to go.

        On the contrary. No money (in the sense of orders). That's why they are trying to offer something. PMM, by the way from the same series.
        There are so many good old PMs in the country that no one can offer the country such a tasty candy that it decides to replace it.
        Of course, if the country had a legal short-barrel market, the problem would be solved in a couple of years ...
      2. +1
        16 June 2015 19: 37
        Quote: Strashila
        such as the pseudo Glock ... mounting bracket ... what prevents it from being done on the PMM

        Interestingly, what does Glock and PMM have in common? Also with the barrel?
    12. +4
      16 June 2015 18: 38
      And what is better than macarka? Well, in a utilitarian sense. Nice is not an argument. Does it make sense to change 15-20 meters? Makar lies in his hand like a native, being repaired "on his knee". The machine is not essential in the TTD. Vitality in the field is a question! With the PM, everything is clear, if you dived, I did it in the sand. You know what to do. What about this? Ponty are not important. The transition to the revolver principle is still understandable. The revolver is trouble-free and is not afraid of misfires - the next cartridge will turn on further. And all this small-mechanical machinery will not forgive the lack of lubrication and the presence of sand in the mechanism. Moreover, when small parts are made of improper steel, there is generally a refusal on every third shot. Thanks! We ate! Eat it yourself!
    13. +2
      16 June 2015 18: 39
      Appearance is not bad, it doesn’t tear my eyes away, even if the characteristics were at the height would be, but I prefer open-trigger pistols.
    14. 0
      16 June 2015 18: 41
      Very nice....
    15. +4
      16 June 2015 18: 42
      Something he looks suspiciously like a deafening farted "Strizh" during testing. The tests will pass - you can write victorious reports, but it's too early.
      1. +1
        16 June 2015 22: 00
        I agree, the swift reminds strongly there, too, they boasted of a low "frame"
        1. +1
          17 June 2015 14: 44
          In Estonia, "Strizh" is sold in gun shops. The seller said that before the sale you have to sort out the gun, otherwise it does not work. In May, 8 units were sold in one of the stores. They take a try as an investment of money (weapons only increase in price over time), at the moment they are not high (450 euros). He held it in his hands - was not impressed - he was rude, unprepossessing, painted with a "brush", but sits well in his hand. By the way, the barrel is made of stainless steel, i.e. the resource is huge.
    16. +3
      16 June 2015 18: 42
      It looks cool, but:
      Weight, number of cartridges and fuse location - failure. The swift was hacked to death, GSh-18 too, the lame / oblique PYa was adopted and now here is another "replacement" of the PM. We got it already.
    17. +3
      16 June 2015 18: 54
      The weight and the number of cartridges is not the main thing. The most important thing is the correct weight distribution of the gun. The clearest example is the John Browning Colt 1911, which was in service with the United States Army until the end of the 20th century, and its modified versions are still in use. And all because despite with a powerful caliber and small magazine capacity, the gun has an almost perfect weight distribution and it is easier to shoot from it than from Makarov.
    18. +2
      16 June 2015 18: 54
      What are we arguing about? To pick up and try. Yeah .....
    19. +15
      16 June 2015 18: 59
      During the time of imperial Russia there was a remarkable thing.
      The officer could buy any gun included in the recommended list. I emphasize ANYWHERE.
      And in the future, he relied on his preference. Maybe ours take this method into service. Someone likes "Stechkin", someone "Rook" or GSH-18. That is, those who are entitled to a pistol according to the state will be able to choose for themselves based on performance characteristics, ergonomics, and finally just aesthetics. It is not necessary to clamp people on such a fundamental issue as the choice of personal weapons. To serve them and if something happens to protect us. So it's better to leave it to the professionals. hi
      1. +2
        16 June 2015 19: 04
        Quote: K-50
        Maybe ours take this method into service. Someone likes "Stechkin", someone "Rook" or GSH-18. That is, those who are entitled to a pistol according to the state will be able to choose for themselves based on performance characteristics, ergonomics, and finally just aesthetics.

        Here is the other side of the matter - is it like a "civilian" weapon? In combat conditions, as it were, a motley nomenclature of cartridges is not welcome ...
        1. +3
          16 June 2015 19: 14
          In combat conditions, like-be, a motley nomenclature of cartridges is not welcome ...

          With cartridges, it is all the less or less simple: 9.19
          But the maintenance and repair of all this zoo ....
          There should be one gun. And let him buy special equipment for specific needs whatever he wants.
      2. +3
        16 June 2015 19: 14
        For the pros, this is fair and correct, but in the line forces you still need to have a single gun. Simple and reliable.
        And this one looks good, but the final decision should be made by the army officers.
      3. avt
        +2
        16 June 2015 19: 16
        Quote: K-50
        The officer could buy any gun included in the recommended list. I emphasize ANYWHERE.

        Quote: K-50
        ... It is not necessary to clamp people on such a fundamental issue as the choice of personal weapons. To serve them and if something happens to protect us. So it's better to leave it to the professionals.

        But at least instead of body armor at your own expense it is hung with pistols and spare shops with different cartridges for them? What do we have? How should it be under Peter No. 1 and even earlier? There is a staff cartridge and under it there should be a staff gun and all this, after testing, should be taken into service in the army. Specialists are a separate song — they need imported weapons both for study and in general .... for work. And what they can buy separately is free circulation of weapons, which before the revolution was allowed not only for the officer corps.
        Quote: K-50
        buy any gun included in the recommended list.

        This, if you like, is a weak attempt to at least somehow regulate the variety of weapons sold, with their free circulation.
      4. 0
        16 June 2015 21: 22
        Quote: K-50
        So it's better to leave it to the professionals.

        The choice of weapons "specialists" for work has long been not limited by the framework. Just like the choice of shoes: some sneakers, some boots! The result is important! And boasts that we have all the best, too, is not necessary. And it is necessary to learn from them, adversaries! For example: diapers were very useful for snipers, not moss scraps!
    20. +3
      16 June 2015 19: 20
      Quote: Sukhoi
      Swift hacked


      Nobody chopped it. An objective approach to business showed everything at once.
      I bow to Uncle Gryazev, but there are a lot of questions to GSH-18 too. No less than to PY.
      Designing pistols is generally a high art. Many of the great gunsmiths who created excellent submachine guns, submachine guns and carbines completely failed in trying to create YOUR (and not copy Browning to the state of TT, like Tokarev) gun.

      Quote: K-50
      The officer could buy any gun included in the recommended list.


      And then army gunsmiths in front-line repair shops either hung themselves up or became brilliant self-taught, like the same Tokarev, for example. Still, almost all the weapons of the European theater of operations passed through his hands while repairing. Only the yard is not the beginning of the 20th century. Logistics is the basis of 21st century wars.
    21. +1
      16 June 2015 19: 21
      Quote: Alex_Rarog
      Makar they first replace because it is completely outdated.

      But for self-defense what is needed.
    22. +2
      16 June 2015 19: 24
      The gun is apparently good, because the power of the whole concern is behind it ... but where did our SWITCH go? In my opinion, Swift was a very successful machine.
      1. +5
        16 June 2015 19: 31
        Quote: NEXUS
        The gun is apparently good, because the power of the whole concern is behind it ... but where did our SWITCH go? In my opinion, Swift was a very successful machine.

        1. +2
          16 June 2015 19: 45
          Yes, there is nothing to be done. Let those who have the right to choose a weapon to their taste or hand. In my opinion this will be correct. Someone PY, someone Swift, someone GS. the main thing is that the caliber would be the same, however, for a second or personal weapon and this is not the most important. One, two full-time, the rest at their own expense. Why not?
      2. +1
        16 June 2015 19: 31
        Quote: NEXUS
        where did our Swift go?

        into the furnace. Reliability tests did not pass.
        1. +2
          16 June 2015 20: 03
          Quote: bunta
          into the furnace. Reliability tests did not pass.

          It seems they said that in terms of performance characteristics it is better than Glock19 request
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. 0
          17 June 2015 15: 58
          Two of my friends bought a SWIFT. The price bites 1000 Baku. The quality of workmanship, to put it mildly, is so-so. Quite so-so. The huge, thick handle is completely uncomfortable and long. No ergonomics (not in the hand and that's it). The descent is indistinct and not stable. On the third trip to the shooting range, one of the two pistols began to make pipes. Lyonka, a turner by profession, went through his napilingus - polishingus. He said that this pistol is absolutely raw and not modified. In a word, SWIFT semi-handicraft junk. If I had not disassembled it and did not shoot from it, I would never have said this. That is why he could not stand the army tests, because he could not stand it initially.
          1. +3
            17 June 2015 21: 57
            Did you come up with or who helped ??? Firstly, the quality of manufacture of export versions of the Swift is higher than that of the Glocks! The pistol is very reliable and not flimsy (especially in the full metal version) If you did not come up with it yourself, you could hear "stories" about the first versions of the Strizhv (there were many problems) And for information, all the versions of the Strizh that are sold were made and assembled at one of the company's factories in Italy - Russian factories have not yet been loaded because they have not received a license to sell abroad. The Italian branch was waiting for a license for a year - bureaucrats specially from foreign countries slowed down - they did not want to have such a competitor as Strizh in their market.
    23. +1
      16 June 2015 19: 39
      subjectively, but apparently I like ...
    24. The comment was deleted.
    25. 0
      16 June 2015 19: 41
      Regarding external aesthetic data ...
      Let all the declared characteristics do not detract from the expressive, well-balanced design.
      At the moment, of course, this is only a private opinion, this prototype loses its analogues in terms of external characteristics ...

      This is certainly not a plane ...
      quoting the famous catchphrase - "an ugly plane will most likely not fly" ...

      However, the current trend towards "beautiful weapons" can be changed on purpose. First of all, weapons as a means of defense! The aesthetics should be rough, almost repulsive, embodying the essence of the object and the intention of its use.
    26. +2
      16 June 2015 19: 49
      Quote: Alex_Rarog
      Makar to them at first to replace because it is completely outdated


      Only the outdated PM mattress was recently purchased in quantity of 1,5 million pieces, as a weapon of last chance. PM brought to mind 35 years. The oldest who was holding 1963. the youngest in 1978, the difference is striking. PI just baked what you wanted.
      1. 0
        16 June 2015 20: 09
        Tell us about the feelings between different PM.
        1. +2
          16 June 2015 20: 49
          The earlier one, as it is more licked, neater, sits better in the hand, there were no delays. The latter is somewhat rude, there were no delays. The first of the discs were torn on machines, polished. Apparently the tolerances and landings were different. The latter were manufactured by the method of high precision casting (powder metallurgy) with minimal mechanical processing. But now there is a lot of manual labor, especially in stores. Grannies are sitting with bloody hands from a burr.
      2. +1
        16 June 2015 20: 11
        Quote: ssn18
        Only the outdated PM mattress was recently purchased in quantity of 1,5 million pieces, as a weapon of last chance.

        No one says PM is bad. Each weapon has its own time.

        James Bond would take PM if he knew about him! laughing

        According to legend, his beloved Beretta was taken from him and put in PPK-S. Then he became his favorite.
        1. 0
          16 June 2015 20: 53
          Bond PM is not needed, then it was a problem to get it in small Britain, and Walter PPK is worthy of a replacement, although the resource is somewhat different, what can the market economy do, marketers work to eliminate overstocking of warehouses. There will be no profit.
          1. 0
            17 June 2015 19: 32
            PM Western experts have always attributed to the technological copy of Pi Pi Kay
    27. 0
      16 June 2015 20: 07
      "Strizh", LP-14, PYa, if you look closely, go on one topic: lowering the line of fire, as low as possible. The task is to avoid lifting the barrel when fired, i.e. increase the accuracy. The idea is good. But the principles of operation of automation are different for everyone. Again, the MTBF is also different. If for the SGA and Geyropa the norm is 1,5 thousand shots per pipe, then for the USSR the minimum was 3,0 thousand. Again, we must not forget that the PM was carried out for 35 years.
    28. 0
      16 June 2015 20: 15
      It looks like a working machine, wait and see.
      1. 0
        16 June 2015 21: 30
        Quote: Wolverine
        It looks like a working machine

        Working or not, another question! But wait and see?
    29. +1
      16 June 2015 20: 32
      Aiming range parameter is critical. Less than 100 m. - Do not roll, yesterday. And just he is not given. Therefore, Yarygin is subject to replacement - 50 m., Amphibious range. Second Makarov, with improved ergonomics. I do not understand why they do not take GSh-18. Someone else's lobby again?
      1. 0
        16 June 2015 21: 03
        Quote: Twice Major
        I do not understand why they do not take GSh-18. Someone else's lobby again?

        Maybe GSh 100m sighting range? feel
      2. +1
        16 June 2015 21: 05
        "Second Makarov, with improved ergonomics. I don't understand why they don't take GSH-18."

        1. By no means automation PM - free shutter speed, automation ПЯ-short stroke of the barrel. Stores of different capacities, different cartridges. ПЯ is focused on penetration of bulletproof vests. For the aircraft, an ammunition is normal, given that it is worn in the area of ​​the day, after its refinement, or rather, bringing the cartridges of different plants to uniform requirements. For prolonged wearing, there is no better PM.
        2 GSh-18 machine for specialists, a lot of plastic and the price is higher.
        Lobby, IMHO, nothing to do with it. Too many other nuances.
      3. Harvest
        0
        16 June 2015 23: 36
        Quote: Twice Major
        Aiming range parameter is critical. Less than 100 m. - Do not roll, yesterday.

        That is, for a pistol, the aiming range of less than 100 (???) meters is yesterday? belay
        And which models have an aiming range of more than 100 m?
        Mauser K-96. A very modern gun, right the gun of the future. laughing
        And at what distance does fire contact usually occur with the use of short-barreled weapons?
    30. +1
      16 June 2015 21: 09
      Ammunition mass 9x19 - the only thing that has the right to life. The munition was militia, then for lethal use they were not brought to trial. For police purposes, the ammunition is unacceptable. For military purposes, it is ballistically unsuitable, well, unless you get captured. Gentlemen, I dare to recall that the ammunition is primary, the weapon in all its glory is secondary. Ready for the minuses, well, it’s not a century to go older)))
    31. +1
      16 June 2015 21: 12
      "In addition, the indicator has an additional function: in combination with the changed geometry of the chamber, it makes it possible to fire defective cartridges whose case length does not correspond to the standard" - this is perhaps the key phrase! And then because of the shitty cartridges good pistols "write off"! They - see if - "stick at the first shots"! Let's learn how to make normal cartridges, and only then blame the designers!
    32. 0
      16 June 2015 21: 24
      shoulder recoil high. well. trunk will throw less will be. although my favorite trunk APS.
    33. 0
      16 June 2015 21: 28
      Still, our pistols cannot be confused with any others!))) But seriously, the first Yarygins also had a long (or wide, as you look at) front sight, but then it was shortened and the pistol seemed to look better (and cling for clothes too).
    34. 0
      16 June 2015 21: 36
      Quote: Daniel
      The pistol concept was developed jointly with specialists from the power structures of Russia and leading shooters - athletes of our country.

      I am glad that direct users took part in the development.

      "Direct users" also took part in the development of "Swift", but for some reason on tests at "TSNIITOCHMASH", he "immediately refused"! It turned out strange somehow. Where (and how, and who) this "Swift" was not advertised, but on tests, for some reason, he "immediately refused" !? Something's wrong, guys! "... can I change something in the conservatory"? )))
    35. 0
      16 June 2015 21: 39
      Quote: Horst78
      More ChZ-75 / 85 reminds me more

      No, it's brought to the absolute TT ...)))
    36. +1
      16 June 2015 21: 43
      So far, nothing better than the pistols than the TT-33 have ever been able to invent. Tokarev hammer.
    37. +3
      16 June 2015 22: 05
      We need new pistols, we really need them! Let them experiment, test, make mistakes, but do it. It’s not a sin to creatively apply the best constructive solutions to world arms science.
      Personally, I once saw Jericho 941 on the photo and, as they say, it is love at first sight. I am a purely peaceful person, but I have a pneumatic copy of this gun.
      1. +2
        16 June 2015 22: 13
        Quote: sounddoc
        We need new pistols, we really need them!

        WHAT FOR? And what does not suit the old? There are Americans - still run with the M1911 and nothing.
    38. +2
      16 June 2015 22: 27
      Quote: Stock Officer
      Convenient grip immediately attracts attention - the main condition for accurate shooting. As a former master in bullet shooting from a pistol, I can confirm high-quality ergonomics. We made such pads on the handle ourselves, wooden, then it was quite possible to shoot decently from Margolin.
      By the way, when there was still sport shooting in the RP exercise (revolver), then we conducted a small experiment at the shooting range - we shot from a belt at a swinging tin can. So - nobody came from Margolin (guys - MS and CCM), everything from the revolver.
      That's what comfortable ergonomics mean when the trunk is an extension of the arm.
      You correctly paid attention. Moreover, the lining is replaceable.
      But regarding everything else written in the article, I don’t know whether to cry or laugh. A single gun for the army and police? Really experience PM did not teach anything? And I wonder what kind of shooter with stress did the author mean?
    39. +6
      16 June 2015 22: 37
      Quote: Prapor-527
      And what does GSh-18 remind of? Externally or technically?

      Had to shoot from GSh-18. Made horribly, constantly wedges. The balance is disgusting and does not shoot comfortably. Shooting with double shots (flash) is very problematic due to a sharp toss of the barrel.
      He used to be very interesting to me, but now I don’t want to take it in my hands. Glock also has a sharp return due to the plastic frame, but he is much more obedient to GS. I had to shoot from so many pistols, including the GP K-100. Of the pistols with a plastic frame, the best is definitely S&W M&P. Although our PU with a plastic frame is very good. He only needs to improve the quality of iron. And of the iron pistols, in my opinion, the most comfortable shooting at STI (Colt) and CZ TS.
      I believe and am 100% sure that you can not refuse PM. It just needs to be modified a bit like Walter PPK. It is also important to revive at a new level TT with a native caliber of 7,62x28, but to increase the store's capacity.
      1. -4
        16 June 2015 23: 11
        Quote: strelok-54
        I believe and am confident at 100% that you cannot refuse PM.

        Why? This is a threshing floor. Puke from him pulls.
        Quote: strelok-54
        It is also important to revive at a new level TT with the native caliber 7,62x28, but increase the store's capacity.

        But I agree with that. Only not 7,62x28, but 7,62x25. The best pistol in the world of spruce. The current is not too safe. Well, matches are not a toy for children.
        1. +2
          16 June 2015 23: 49
          In vain)) PM machine is reliable and already this one it is not bad. Against most modern pistols, the PM has a fixed barrel. Only the shutter rolls back. And this is a great property. Second shot hole in the hole. It is necessary to lengthen the barrel in the base, cut the thread under it under PBBS and close the thread with a plug. Move the fuse lever to the frame. Move the store reset key up along the Koltovo system. Increase magazine capacity to 18 rounds. Such a reliable compact gun is also needed. Even the 9x18 cartridge is not so bad in its way. When shooting in closed rooms with concrete walls and metal fittings, you can piss yourself from your own ricochets. Pistols are tools. They are different. Is a locksmith cost one screwdriver? Recently shot from Stock II a hundred meters at a growth target. We wanted to see what this sports pistol is good for. I remind you 9x19 and 100 meters. Of the ten shots, 7 are in the target. But if you need to pick someone out of a residential building, with many rooms, then I would prefer two PM.))

          Yes, of course 7,62x25. From this Mauserian patronage never fired
          1. +2
            17 June 2015 14: 35
            Quote: strelok-54
            It is necessary to lengthen the barrel in the base, cut the thread under it under PBBS and close the thread with a plug.

            And why do this if there is a PB?
            Quote: strelok-54
            Move the store reset key up along the Koltovo system.

            The magazine lock button was invented not by Browning, but by Hugo Borchardt at the end of the 19th century, Luger improved it, so it is not "Kolt".
            Quote: strelok-54
            Move the fuse lever to the frame.

            And what should be the height of the frame to comfortably switch before?
            Dear, it turns out you are another gunner from Novosibirsk? What a lot of you ...
            1. 0
              18 June 2015 11: 45
              PM is good for its reliability. Only 25 parts. Never wedged when shooting. A couple of times used in combat. Distances no more than 2-3 meters. Wore - cartridge in the chamber, removed from the fuse. Three years, in general, did not part with him. In troubled times - the best friend - he never failed!
              Let other samples have more store capacity, better accuracy, ergonomics, etc.
              Is there anything similar and simple in reliability? What will the misfire mean in a short-range shootout? Can you provide the right grip in a stressful situation on systems like Glock or Zig-Sauer (otherwise after the first shot it will bite the sleeve in the window)? How often do you have to shoot a pistol at a distance of more than 5-10 meters? In my personal experience (albeit modest enough), according to the experience of specialists from the FBI, etc., most often the gun is used at a distance of 1,5 to 3 meters.
              The only thing in PM that is not inspiring is not a very powerful cartridge. But, everything has a price, as they say.
          2. 0
            18 June 2015 15: 11
            . When shooting in closed rooms with concrete walls and metal fittings, you can piss yourself from your own ricochets.


            That is why the police and special forces use ammunition that will not ricochet.
    40. +7
      16 June 2015 23: 00
      It's not the same for everybody. You get used to arms like a woman, then you can achieve something like this .... For 20 years I’ve been shooting from this until no other girl convinces)
      1. -5
        16 June 2015 23: 09
        Why is it interesting that some have such an enthusiastic attitude towards weapons? This is me talking about "special sensations when you hold it in your hands" or "pleasant heaviness" or "heady sensation". Where is it from? It's just a tool. A tool for not very good (albeit necessary) things, besides.
      2. +3
        17 June 2015 14: 38
        Quote: Asadullah
        I’ve been shooting from this for 20 years, until no other girl convinced)

        Dear, what is someone else's photo? From this forum:
        http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/world-firearms/nazi-p-640b-high-power-rig-12980/
        It was necessary to lay out his own, so to speak live!
    41. 0
      16 June 2015 23: 10
      Compact submachine guns (PP) are needed in the army (some military), and not pistols in the latest fashion ...
      Picatinny rail on this gun why?
      For specialists - let imported ones buy (cheaper); and in the army and PM it’s enough.
      What is the use of a pistol in battle?
    42. +16
      16 June 2015 23: 27
      I couldn’t take this PL-14 pistol into my hands, but from the photo I can try to describe those design nuances that were not mentioned in the article. If anyone is interested. So!
      The locking scheme is an upgraded Browning scheme with a short stroke and a skewed barrel. By type SigSauer P-250 and our PY. It's good. This scheme is the most reliable today and the most common. It differs from the classic Browning scheme by the reliance of the breech of the trunk on the extraction window. This is clearly seen in the characteristic slope of the breech and the shape of the extraction window. Thus, this pistol on this basis is an analogue of Glock and has nothing to do with Swift, PM or GS.
      USM - drum, as in Smith and Wesson M&P. But not a complete analogue. No fuse button on the trigger is observed. We see only a mechanical fuse with a two-way lever. The USM shock scheme allowed to reduce the axis of the barrel according to the Shteyr and Caracal type. It's also good.

      The frame is plastic. Although I am a supporter of the iron framework, for a service weapon a lighter gun is preferable. Nobody interferes with milling frames from titanium and aluminum in perspective.

      Disassembling the gun upsets. Again, some axis need to extrude? Although the photo on the right does not understand. It is possible that this is the rotary axis of the latch, as on SigSauer.

      In general, I approve the constructive concept and design. It looks like the right gun. I see the execution of the handle provides for removable rear pads. Ergonomics is definitely better than Glock. The elongated back of the frame forms a confident emphasis on the arch of the palm. Glock in this place without bemouthing by Beavertail always strives to bite the skin. Like ZZ levers (shutter lag) and on both sides also sunk into the frame. Glock suffers from the fact that an involuntary touch on the lever ZZ leads to the fact that the slider does not stand on hold when the store is empty.

      Personally, the trigger trigger is closer to me. I'm used to working with the trigger. It is clear when the gun is deactivated and it is possible to finish off the defective capsule with a second press. But our Army, of course, needs its own glock-like pistol. And even more so, this one is more thought out than Glock.
      But I wouldn’t even get off the count. This is a well-designed 90% gun. Only minor design flaws fix and improve production quality. Trigger models we also need.
      1. 0
        17 June 2015 00: 21
        Thank you for the detailed analysis with explanations. From me there are two pluses. good hi
      2. 0
        17 June 2015 14: 55
        Quote: strelok-54
        Glock in this place without bemouthing by Beavertail always strives to bite the skin.

        Dear you have a hand like a beer mug? The whole weapon is hiding in a fist ...
        Quote: strelok-54
        Glock suffers from the fact that an involuntary touch on the lever ZZ leads to the fact that the slider does not stand on hold when the store is empty.

        Did you read what you wrote yourself? How can you accidentally press the spring-loaded ЗЗ, ​​which is located in the recess on the Glock? And what such a detail of the "slider" pistol is, there is a "slide" in Russian for "bolt". Are the misprints accidental? It seems to me not. Another connoisseur of the "subject", but without reliable knowledge!
      3. 0
        18 June 2015 01: 01
        Quote: strelok-54
        The frame is plastic.

        If you enlarge the shot of the pistol, you can see that the front of the bolt frame is burnished to black metal (see the holster is tight)
        Metal, in general.
    43. 0
      17 June 2015 01: 36
      Granddaughter Makar’s cheerful granddaughter ... I hope he will have an equally long and glorious story ...
    44. 0
      17 June 2015 05: 09
      everything is relative, if it’s relative to PM, then yes, there is progress, but on the whole it’s an outright ordinary shooter, for the police and specialists it may come down, for the army something more powerful is needed ...
      1. avt
        0
        17 June 2015 08: 52
        Quote: Volka
        , for the army you need something more powerful ...

        laughing Generally, in the army, something more powerful "from personal weapons - an automatic machine, well, less" more powerful "-PP.
    45. 0
      17 June 2015 09: 57
      I’m not a shooter, and generally did not hold a shooter in my hands. But the first thing that comes when looking at the photo and it will not cling when pulled out? After all, the handle and the fact that behind it above (did not forget that I am a layman?) Form a good hook.
    46. 0
      17 June 2015 11: 14
      beautiful) asks for hands
    47. 0
      17 June 2015 12: 58
      What all are attached to PM. He is already asking for retirement for about 20 years. If such a successful scheme, then upgrade to a modern level and go. And so I agree with
      Quote: Banson
      This is a threshing floor. Puke from him pulls.

      Also, the cartridge is frankly weak.
      Quote: Banson
      I'm talking about "special sensations when you hold it in your hands" or "pleasant heaviness" or "heady sensation". Where is it from?

      And you shoot with several different pistols and understand. Some do not cause any emotion, and from some you get high.
      Quote: Banson
      There are Americans - still run with the M1911 and nothing.

      Because they run around that the gun is awesome. It's like an AK-47, only in pistols bully
      In the above sample, the work of industrial designers is already visible, which they took to work and this is buzzing. It is necessary to quickly test and modify it (if necessary) and take it.
      PJ turned out to be guano (most likely due to quality)
      GSH-18 not to be seen.
      Swift guano is similar in itself.
      Well, maybe this is a worthy option?
      And it is necessary to gash it in different calibers, at least 9x19 and 9x21 well, and FN Five-seveN in this, too, can be, instead of 7,62)))
      1. 0
        17 June 2015 17: 37
        Quote: MaoDz
        Because they run around that the gun is awesome.

        Why is he awesome? Healthy how unknowingly. The gun should allow concealed carrying.
        Quote: MaoDz
        In the above example, the work of industrial designers is already visible,

        There were no designers there ever. Not when developing the AK-47. Moreover, when developing M1911. They themselves turned out like that.
        Quote: MaoDz
        Well, maybe this is a worthy option?

        What? TT-33 is a great gun. APS is nothing, although the cartridge is dead, but under the new 9x18 PMM will come down. And nothing more is needed. The gun is the gun. Che prays for him or what?
    48. 0
      17 June 2015 16: 07
      Damn, melancholy. The situation resembles the eve of the First World War. Then, too, weapons were developed, submitted to competitions and those competitions were held in a similar way - on the basis of photos, drawings and brain-dissolving chatter. The French came up with a "universal gun" ...
      Who shot this pistol? Yes, not a couple of times ... Where are the impressions of specialists about shooting, disassembling, weight, ergonomics, etc. etc.? Video where? Is that perfume? Shoes? What is this stupid neglect?
      Or will MO buy anyway - have bribes already been distributed? Ugh ...
      1. 0
        18 June 2015 00: 52
        This is a major overhaul of your car. According to the photo ... lol
    49. Tor5
      +3
      17 June 2015 16: 18
      Only by picking up and shooting dozens of three stores can you make any preliminary conclusion ....
      1. -1
        17 June 2015 22: 26
        Words are not a sergeant but an officer !!!!
    50. +1
      17 June 2015 16: 35
      In addition, the indicator has an additional function: in combination with the modified geometry of the chamber, it makes it possible to shoot defective cartridges in which the length of the sleeve does not meet the standard.


      What these Russians just won’t come up with, if only they wouldn’t let out normal cartridges. (c) Japanese.
    51. 0
      17 June 2015 17: 20
      Quote: CRONOS
      Thank you for the detailed analysis with explanations. From me there are two pluses. good hi

      You are welcome))
      Today I found a photo of this pistol on the right side. Yes, the slider (shutter) is removed by turning the lock. It's a good news.
      And today, in photographs with magnification, I saw the axis on the trigger. Therefore, the trigger is closer to the M&P in terms of protection against accidental shots.

      It’s good that Smith and Wesson took this decision as a basis, and did not imitate Glock and General Staff.
    52. +4
      17 June 2015 17: 48
      Quote: Verum
      Quote: strelok-54
      Glock in this place without bemouthing by Beavertail always strives to bite the skin.

      Dear you have a hand like a beer mug? The whole weapon is hiding in a fist ...
      Quote: strelok-54
      Glock suffers from the fact that an involuntary touch on the lever ZZ leads to the fact that the slider does not stand on hold when the store is empty.

      Did you read what you wrote yourself? How can you accidentally press the spring-loaded ЗЗ, ​​which is located in the recess on the Glock? And what such a detail of the "slider" pistol is, there is a "slide" in Russian for "bolt". Are the misprints accidental? It seems to me not. Another connoisseur of the "subject", but without reliable knowledge!


      I don’t care about your opinion regarding the level of my knowledge about pistols.)) I also formed my opinion about your knowledge. "Slider" (literally slide) is a bolt in shooting jargon. Those who study pistols from pictures call this part "Slide" as it is written on the official diagrams. For example, position #40 on the Glock diagram.
      Hence your level of practice in shooting a Glock. If this practice had taken place dynamically and with a factory supplied pistol, then there would be an understanding of why shooters lift the handle as high as possible with their palm in order to control the recoil and return of the barrel to the firing line when shooting in twos. Then I would know why Glock produces and sells several models of “beavertails”, like no other pistol in the world. And if you were not a theorist, but a real Glock shooter, then you wouldn’t have to ask why sometimes your thumb touches the slide stop on a Glock. The answer is very simple, but “theoreticians” do not know it.))) But active shooters know it well. The reason is that learning to shoot is about developing a set of motor skills. And if the shooter has been shooting from a PYa or CZ or SigSauer for a long time, then when switching to a Glock this characteristic phenomenon appears - involuntary contact of the rear guard and braking of the shutter, which can lead to undershooting. It’s just that a person is used to controlling a frame with a different arrangement of controls. But how do you know this?))
      1. 0
        18 June 2015 15: 46
        Quote: strelok-54
        I don't care what you think about my level of knowledge about pistols.

        Dear, I don’t care about your opinion about me.
        Quote: strelok-54
        this is a bolt action in shooting jargon.

        Is there a difference between what I wrote “slide” and what you wrote “slide”? But between “slide” and “slider” this is obvious. Well, let’s go to the same Hansa and type “slider” - positive “0”, go to any shooters forum - “0”. So you can talk about the position according to the Glock scheme as much as you like. I can post 1013 firearms manuals alone. Or call any IPSC division.
        Quote: strelok-54
        Then I would know

        Dear, did I give you a reason to call me by your name? It seems like they didn’t drink during the Brudershaft...
        In this case, I can assume that my opponent is an immature young man, still very uneducated...
        Quote: strelok-54
        Hence your level of practice in shooting a Glock.

        My practice is about 300 rounds at the shooting range, and I formed my opinion about the Glock, not my weapon.
        Quote: strelok-54
        Why do shooters place the palm of their hand as high as possible in order to control recoil and return of the barrel to the line of fire when shooting in doubles?

        And your theme was taken from the Hansa by Alexey Khvatikov, whose hand is like a beer mug.
        And this is his grip, also from the Hansa:

        Quote: strelok-54
        Then I would know why Glock produces and sells several models of “beavertails”, like no other pistol in the world

        Not really? On 70% of modern pistol models, the linings are already included.
        You probably want to amaze the readers of "VO" with this? But the “beaver tail” was invented even before the Glock; on the same “1911” it is considered almost ideal.
        Quote: strelok-54
        And if you were not a theorist, but a real Glock shooter, then you wouldn’t have to ask why sometimes your thumb touches the slide stop on a Glock.

        Well, yes, this happens all the time... But it was also taken from the Hansa and there it happened 20000 times out of 10 rounds. All problems and shortcomings are simply attributed to the Hansa.
        For example like here:
        1. 0
          18 June 2015 16: 07
          And in order not to simply pour water, you can contact the Admiral. Otherwise, “VO” already has an IPSC Novosibirsk instructor, and now a shooter has appeared.
    53. -1
      17 June 2015 18: 41
      GUYS - STOP.. Do you even look carefully at the photo?????? This, if this is a real photo- PISTOL FOR LEFT HANDERS, Where is the safety, where is the magazine delay release.,?????????? Apparently they are taking us for suckers - or not????? Aw.... . Well, who can tell me their vision of the problem. I unsubscribed.
      1. 0
        17 June 2015 19: 07
        Quote: Signaller
        GUYS - STOP.. Do you even look carefully at the photo?????? This, if this is a real photo- PISTOL FOR LEFT HANDERS, Where is the safety, where is the magazine delay release.,?????????? Apparently they are taking us for suckers - or not????? Aw.... . Well, who can tell me their vision of the problem. I unsubscribed.

        Isn't it an option to connect the pistol control to both sides of the pistol?
        1. 0
          17 June 2015 19: 23
          Well, yes. They're taking us for fools. Are they available for left-handers and right-handers???
        2. 0
          17 June 2015 19: 26
          And everything else is in the lower topic.
        3. 0
          17 June 2015 19: 28
          The store is thrown away on either side. The trigger hook is also on both. Just remember the direction. But everything else???? It's kind of creepy. PM there is no such thing
          1. 0
            17 June 2015 20: 27
            Quote: Signaller
            The store is thrown away on either side. The trigger hook is also on both. Just remember the direction. But everything else???? It's kind of creepy. PM there is no such thing

            I won’t say anything about the slide stop (I didn’t pay attention), but the safety is installed on both sides. For example, Beret F92. And the magazine release and Swift buttons work from either side.
            PL-14 on both sides

            By the way, the AK-12 also has a “fire mode switch” on both sides of the machine.
            1. 0
              17 June 2015 20: 46
              Quote: Bad_gr
              PL-14 on both sides

              If you enlarge the photo, you will see that the left side of the pistol differs from the right only in the presence of a flag on the clip (for disassembling the pistol). All other pistol controls are duplicated.
    54. 0
      17 June 2015 18: 46
      If this is a reverse photo, then you need to write. Or a photo from both sides. Apparently their managers are very young. They don’t know how the gun is visible in the photo. I would say the Kalashnikava concern is swimming shallowly. Such a small thing, but unpleasant. Don’t stand still with the pistol shown. (The barrel must be turned to the left and everything will be a bunch of farts for the ignorant)
    55. +1
      17 June 2015 19: 36
      Quote: Signaller
      GUYS - STOP.. Do you even look carefully at the photo?????? This, if this is a real photo- PISTOL FOR LEFT HANDERS, Where is the safety, where is the magazine delay release.,?????????? Apparently they are taking us for suckers - or not????? Aw.... . Well, who can tell me their vision of the problem. I unsubscribed.


      There are so many miracles in the world!)))
      Type the name of the pistol into a search engine and you will find a photo of the other side.)) Where is the safety? Look, this is such a pimp on the handle.)) And no one will tell you where the “magazine delay release” is. Such a detail does not exist in nature.))
      Have you tried reading picture books instead of the series "The Boys"?
      1. +1
        17 June 2015 23: 29
        The pistol turned out futuristic and beautiful, I like it. But I don’t understand why they keep riveting more and more pistols. The main problem of the Russian rifle industry is the quality of manufacturing of weapons in mass production and the quality of gunpowder with cartridges, and not the shortcomings of the same guns.
        Especially for the army, where you only need a pistol to finish off or shoot yourself =)) It would be better to arm tankers with compact SMGs like the AEK-919K.
    56. 0
      18 June 2015 08: 58
      Quote: Bad_gr
      Quote: strelok-54
      The frame is plastic.

      If you enlarge the shot of the pistol, you can see that the front of the bolt frame is burnished to black metal (see the holster is tight)
      Metal, in general.

      I was looking wrong. We know the shutter is definitely made of metal. There is no other way to do this with this locking system. But there are doubts about the frame. I compared the black shades of the shutter and frame. They differ. And on the small reliefs of the shutter notches, glare is visible, while on the sharp edges of some reliefs of the frame, if it were made of metal, glare should also appear. But there are no glares, therefore the reflectance of the material is different. I think it's still plastic.
      1. 0
        18 June 2015 11: 11
        Quote: strelok-54
        But there are doubts about the frame. I compared the black shades of the shutter and frame.

        Yes, now I took a closer look - the bolt and body of the pistol are made of different materials. But the weight of the pistol is 0,8 kg - a bit much for plastic.
        I think the bolt is steel, the body is aluminum alloy (like the Beretta F-92)
    57. +2
      18 June 2015 09: 23
      Quote: CRONOS
      The pistol turned out futuristic and beautiful, I like it. But I don’t understand why they keep riveting more and more pistols. The main problem of the Russian rifle industry is the quality of manufacturing of weapons in mass production and the quality of gunpowder with cartridges, and not the shortcomings of the same guns.
      Especially for the army, where you only need a pistol to finish off or shoot yourself =)) It would be better to arm tankers with compact SMGs like the AEK-919K.


      I’ll tell you a terrible secret that not everything is as bad with us as someone told you. BPZ produces quite good cartridges with stable characteristics. They are inferior to luxury cartridges produced in the West with a brass sleeve, expensive gunpowder and a particularly high-quality bullet, but only when it comes to sports shooting. But this cartridge is purchased in large quantities by Americans, Finns, and Czechs for training. In Russia, shooters use green lacquered BPZ 9x19 cartridges in tons. Occasionally you have to finish off the primer by pressing it again, but this is rare. Mostly decent quality suitable for military needs.

      The quality of weapons manufacturing You are right - it has deteriorated. For some, the Gulag is not enough to raise the level of responsibility. But there is another reason - equipment wear. Everything needs to be solved comprehensively.
      Why does Russia need its own new pistol, although it could buy Glocks? I will answer. For the same reason why Russia needs to produce its own meat, potatoes, cars and space rockets.

      This is not only a matter of safety, but also orders for our own industry, and not feeding foreign companies and their workers.

      In this pistol, I also clearly see the desire to turn the situation around so that our shooters at international competitions stop competing with foreign Tanfoglio and Shadow. For those of us who don’t know, Maria Gushchina is already a four-time world champion in practical shooting. Her next victory with a Russian pistol in her hands would serve to strengthen the country’s image. So far, she has always been shooting from a Glock, a Grand Paeur, and now she is shooting from a Tanfolio. I support the idea of ​​creating her own high-quality sports pistol so that she can win the next World Championship with this pistol. And let it be sophisticated, beautiful, so that the leading shooters of the world will come, look and drool. ))

      Why a pistol in modern warfare? )) Do you think it's useless? Do you think that a machine gun will always help out, but the main shootouts with pistols take place up to seven to ten meters? )) But this does not depend on the pistol, but on the level of training of the shooter. I know quite a few shooters who, from fifty meters, will hit the head, the right or left shoulder, the leg, whatever you want. And shooting someone from 100 meters with a serial army pistol with a six-inch barrel is also not a problem. By the way, up to 3000 shots, a regular serial PYA is an excellent machine and can also do this easily. And if you make it from good metal with heat treatment and nitriding, then it’s no worse than any of the foreign pistols right now.
    58. 0
      18 June 2015 09: 31
      Beautiful machine ...
      Well done specialists.
    59. 0
      18 June 2015 09: 58
      Quote: Banson
      There were no designers there ever. Not when developing the AK-47. Moreover, when developing M1911. They themselves turned out like that.

      You misunderstood. I'm talking about this new pistol)))
      Although you can’t deny the beauty of a Colt or Kalash, despite their age.
      Apparently then the designers saw the form so successfully))
      Quote: Banson
      What? TT-33 is a great gun. APS is nothing, although the cartridge is dead, but under the new 9x18 PMM will come down. And nothing more is needed. The gun is the gun. Che prays for him or what?

      I talked about the pistol that is being discussed here, there’s an article about it and even a photo above, did you not understand me again? laughing
      Still as needed. Tell that to the guys who work with these pistols, and not talk about it on the Internet.
      You need a good, powerful, reliable pistol. Very necessary. And in the army as well.
      Quote: Banson
      Why is he awesome? Healthy how unknowingly. The gun should allow concealed carrying.

      Have you ever shot pistols?
      In addition to concealed carry, the pistol has a bunch of other characteristics. And it is not always worn secretly. Take the same military and police. This is hidden for structures like the FSO. There, yes. But their specifics are different; sometimes (and probably almost always) they don’t need much power. They generally have their own theme on weapons. Don't confuse warm with soft.
    60. 0
      18 June 2015 10: 19
      Modern pistols are designed as a platform. Because sufficient experience has already been accumulated and the designers know in advance that in addition to the basic army model, a compact service model will be required. Just as it happened when the Glock-17 was created, and later on the basis of it it was necessary to create the Glock-19 and Glock-21 for the FBI. And to protect the interests of the brand on the world stage, a sports model will be required, as the Glock-34 and Glock-35 were subsequently created.

      It has already been said in the news that this is exactly how the PL-14 line was conceived. There will be a shortened model with some 4-inch barrel, and there will be a sports model with a redesigned trigger, which will have a reduced trigger pull.

      A set of sighting devices will be created, for sure. With optical fiber, and possibly tritium. There will be a concealed carry service holster for the shortened model and a military style open carry holster similar to the Blackhawk Serpa. If the pistol is certified for IPSC, then DAA and Amadini will create their own versions of a sporting holster for this pistol.
    61. +1
      18 June 2015 10: 39
      This barrel must be practiced in comparison with the Swift and GSh-18.
    62. +2
      18 June 2015 14: 54
      We can often hear discussions about the power of cartridges of their caliber. What is the best caliber for a pistol? If anyone is interested, I can speak on this issue.
      As you know, our grandfathers won the World War armed with the 7,62x25 Mauser cartridge. This cartridge was fired from TT and PPSh. The caliber seems to be small, but the trajectory is flat and the destruction range is quite high. The legendary Mauser could shoot with the same cartridge at 100 m.

      The 45-caliber cartridge, with a bullet diameter of 11,43 mm, was popular among the Americans. I have shot large caliber revolvers and classic Colts with this cartridge. Contrary to expectations, the shooting turned out to be quite soft. But the supply of ammunition in the store is not enough.

      It is also often necessary to observe how at competitions the same targets are shot from a PM with a 9x18 cartridge and a PYa with a 9x19 cartridge. The difference is like heaven and earth. If a Parabellum cartridge knocks down a target, then a weaker Makarov cartridge only jingles and moves. The weight of gunpowder there is smaller and the energy of the cartridge is noticeably less. And many immediately say - Oh! The Makarov cartridge is weak, it sucks and is garbage. But I want to clarify to these people that he was created the way they wanted to be created. Do not confuse the army cartridge and the civilian police cartridge.

      The Makarov cartridge is weaker, but the recoil is also weaker. A skilled shooter will place the bullets hole in hole. This bullet can easily stitch through ordinary clothes. At the same time, a soft bullet is safer in the city in terms of rebounds.

      When someone brings steel core ammo to the range and they are shooting closer than 70mm, I recommend hiding somewhere. Once I was cut in the face by an ordinary shell bullet at a distance of 25 meters. It's good that I was wearing ballistic glasses.

      People are interested. Do we need cartridges like the Americans have the 10 Auto or 45 Colt? After all, they have a higher, as they say, “stopping effect.” But their returns are high. The magazine capacity is smaller. An ordinary nine is enough to solve all issues. If you need to sew armor, then there are bullets with a steel core and an increased amount of gunpowder. If you need increased expansion (stopping effect), then there are such bullets. 9x19 is the golden mean. There is no need to invent anything unnecessary and imitate the Americans. They have a craving for gigantism. They even try to shoot with 50 caliber. There is a video somewhere above of what it looks like. )))

      In the USSR, we developed an excellent, by the way, PSM pistol. If someday the law allows citizens to buy pistols, then I would recommend acquiring this particular model. Let the 5.45 caliber be small. But this caliber also has hollow-point bullets, which open like a flower in the victim’s body. It won't seem enough. And a bullet with a steel core made from PSM perfectly penetrates body armor, if I’m not mistaken, up to the second class. At the same time, it is a light and flat pistol for everyday carry.

      And I am also against forgetting our legendary cartridge 7.62x25. The TT needs to be revived at a new technological level in order to show the whole world the continuity of our weapons school.
    63. 0
      18 June 2015 15: 10
      Quote: kirieeleyson
      Suppose, "shoot more accurately" is just the right term for stand-ups. The long descent stroke was well noticed, this is one of the features of such structures, by the way. Take a look at the pistol series of Staher Mannlicher, for example. They suffered with Yarygin, with the PM spring, too, there were serious problems at the initial stage, a marriage of 2 to 1 and more often, this is then, after 10 years, they learned to stamp even without jambs. I am skeptical about this news also because in the first 3-5 years (this is the best case) it will be brought up.


      Once upon a time I first saw the Steyr M9-A1 in pictures and I really wanted to shoot with it. And as soon as such an opportunity arose on one of my trips abroad, I shot with it. My subjective opinion is that the gun is rubbish. This long, hard trigger ruins the shot. It’s as if the designer of the pistol considered it his main task to ensure that no one would shoot it.

      It is not necessary to invent such tight long-stroke triggers, but to train shooters in the correct handling of weapons.
      After I shot this vaunted pistol, I fondly remembered the release of Yarygin’s pistol. It's already pretty good in the database. And if you loosen the mainspring a little, it’s generally comfortable. You just need to take the “Yarygin Pistol” away from Yarygin himself and give it to this designer Lebedev for redesign.
    64. 0
      18 June 2015 15: 38
      Quote: Argon
      I completely agree with the esteemed Prapor-527 there is a wonderful sample that has passed the PREDICTED GI (If anyone has any comments on working with the GSH-18, please respond ???). Implement, modify, no, they are inventing the "bicycle". will the lobby be formed? who will arrange kickbacks? Who needs it all? There is such a financial pie (GOZ) is divided.


      If you are such a supporter of the GSh-18, then first find a GSh-18 in some shooting club and shoot with it. The euphoria will instantly disappear. Energy does not disappear anywhere with any locking system. If the gunpowder in the cartridge exploded and the bullet began to move along the barrel, then the energy was released and it was partially absorbed by the automatic mechanism of the pistol, and partially it went into the hand of the supporting hand. By the way, with a two-handed grip, the supporting hand for right-handers is the left.

      So, with the twist locking system, not everything is so simple either. On the one hand, the barrel moves strictly along the axis, but when it turns, it, through numerous teeth, slides along the grooves of the frame, which ultimately leads to its rotation. Torque is generated. In this case, the frame also receives an impact. And this impact is very different from what the shooter experiences when shooting pistols with the classic John Moses Browning locking system. If an ordinary Colt or Chezet throws up with the barrel lifting up, then when firing from a main gun you feel an incomprehensible, illogical bucking. It's like it's being torn out of your hands. And the MTP (mid-point of impact) is consistently shifted to the left, even if the trigger is processed carefully when firing.

      We have already learned how to deal with barrel bounce from classic pistols. The front part of the frame is weighted, or a weighted return spring guide is installed to shift the center of gravity forward. Sometimes they even hang weights on the picatinny frame. )) But you don’t have to do anything about this if the pistol frame is metal. Shooting will be quite understandable and comfortable.

      Yes, designers have proven that they can invent original designs. GSh-18 is unique in its own way. But few people can make friends with him and people simply lose interest in him after firing a dozen shots at him. This is what I recommend to you. Shoot it and then write here again about your feelings.
      1. 0
        18 June 2015 16: 39
        Quote: strelok-54
        On the one hand, the barrel moves strictly along the axis, but when it turns, it, through numerous teeth, slides along the grooves of the frame, which ultimately leads to its rotation. Torque is generated. In this case, the frame also receives an impact.

        Yes, dear, it seems that 18 degrees of rotation of the GSh-18 barrel is a big misunderstanding, especially when the rifling twists the bullet in the other direction... Well, the K-100 probably also twists out of your hand? And you also happen to be a practical physicist... Especially when the GSh-18 team performs with a pistol of the same name.
    65. 0
      18 June 2015 15: 49
      Quote: Bad_gr
      Quote: strelok-54
      But there are doubts about the frame. I compared the black shades of the shutter and frame.

      Yes, now I took a closer look - the bolt and body of the pistol are made of different materials. But the weight of the pistol is 0,8 kg - a bit much for plastic.
      I think the bolt is steel, the body is aluminum alloy (like the Beretta F-92)


      I have never seen all-steel pistols of standard military size lighter than 1100. Usually around three hundred kilos. I don’t remember exactly Glock-17, but somewhere around 650-680. If they start making the PL-14 with a frame made of hardened, high-alloy aluminum, I’m all for it. Made from titanium - I also support it. But the most technologically advanced frame and the most optimal in terms of production costs for steel pistols today is considered to be sintered from powder steel. The workpiece is sintered and then finished milled. This is how SigSauer is made.

      I don't really like the balance of plastic frame pistols. But some have a service where they have not used weapons for decades, but must carry them. These people need to be armed with plastic pistols. And those who shoot a lot will always be interested only in all-metal pistols.
      1. 0
        18 June 2015 16: 59
        Quote: strelok-54
        The workpiece is sintered and then finished milled. This is how SigSauer is made.

        Even modern Zig frames are still made of aluminum alloy or stainless steel. No powder alloys are used! You are probably confused with rubber arrows. You seem to write that you are an aircraft engineer, so why do you make such mistakes? The strength characteristics of powder alloys have not yet surpassed that of ordinary metal, or has strength been canceled for you?
    66. 0
      18 June 2015 16: 02
      Quote: Verum

      Well, yes, this happens all the time... But it was also taken from the Hansa and there it happened 20000 times out of 10 rounds. All problems and shortcomings are simply attributed to the Hansa.
      For example like here:


      I am not a reader of Hansa to copy anything from there. I came in a couple of times - I’m not interested in communicating with those who have never fired a pistol at all, or have shot less than 20 from one model.))
      1. 0
        18 June 2015 16: 12
        Quote: strelok-54
        I came in a couple of times - it’s not fun to communicate with those who have never fired a pistol at all, or have shot less than 20 from one model.


        Well, yes, they didn’t go in, but the shortcomings and flaws are all in a heap and like a carbon copy... You need to use a little imagination so that it’s not so obvious.
    67. +1
      18 June 2015 18: 15
      I went into the pavilion and touched the pistol. It fits perfectly in the hand and is much more comfortable to hold compared to the PY, although the weight is approximately the same. The materials are high quality, made to last. The descent is normal and comfortable. The bolt stop lever is quite tight, I think it will come apart over time during operation. The location of the fuse is, in my opinion, unfortunate; The pistol is not ready for instant shooting. Glock is doing much better in this regard, although its proprietary Safe Action system has been repeatedly criticized for involuntary self-inflicted shootings.
      In general, the pistol leaves a pleasant impression of itself, it is strong and moderately weighty. I would certainly like to get to know him better at the shooting range)))

      PS The article says about 15 cartridges, the booth employee mentioned 17. Perhaps the second one as an additional one. option.
    68. 0
      18 June 2015 18: 17
      Quote: Verum
      Quote: strelok-54
      The workpiece is sintered and then finished milled. This is how SigSauer is made.

      Even modern Zig frames are still made of aluminum alloy or stainless steel. No powder alloys are used! You are probably confused with rubber arrows. You seem to write that you are an aircraft engineer, so why do you make such mistakes? The strength characteristics of powder alloys have not yet surpassed that of ordinary metal, or has strength been canceled for you?


      Made of stainless steel and aluminum using MIM technology. Previously, at least the shutter was milled from a solid blank, but now the shutter is produced using MIM technology. For those who draw all their knowledge only from Hansa, I’ll explain: MIM is an abbreviation of the technological process and stands for “Metal injection molding”. Literally translated as "injection molding", but involves a sintering process. You can read it briefly in Russian here:
      http://emphasis-ltd.com/ru/powdered-metal-mim-ru.html

      You can read it in English here. A representative from S&W explains how they produce parts using this technology and why there is no need to worry about their strength:

      http://sigtalk.com/sig-sauer-pistols/8898-sig-quality.html

      In order not to search, here is the full text:
      "I have read with much interest the many comments in this [Smith and Wesson] forum pertaining to MIM, MIM Parts and the use of same in a S&W product. So far I have come away with several impressions and they are, "people in general don't like/trust MIM parts", and, "no one has said why." I will take a stab at this issue and see where it goes.

      As background to our decision to use MIM in some areas of our Mfg Process we took a long hard look at our "Life Time Service Policy". It was clear to us that any change in any of our products such as the use of MIM components had to show equivalent or better performance and durability to those components that were being replaced or the "Lifetime Service" would haunt us forever. The second consideration was to determine if the change was too radical a departure from S&W mainstream design.

      For the performance and durability issues we decided that if MIM could be used for the fabrication of revolver hammers and triggers successfully this would truly be an "Acid Test". There is nothing more important to a revolvers feel than the all-important Single Action that is established between the hammer and the trigger. Mechanically few places in a revolver work harder than at the point where the hammer and trigger bear against each other. If these surfaces wear or lose their edge the "feel" is lost. Initial testing was on these two critical parts.



      Herb [Belin,
      Project Manager, Smith & Wesson]
      ______________

      The Izhevsk plant also mastered this technology:
      http://www.baikalinc.ru/ru/info/mpm.html
      1. 0
        19 June 2015 09: 30
        Quote: strelok-54
        MIM is an abbreviation of the technological process and stands for "Metal injection molding". Literally translated as "injection molding", but involves a sintering process. You can read it briefly in Russian here:

        You don’t have to tell me about technology, it’s useless to show your level. In Russia, various ANIX pneumatics were produced using this technology.
        And what do you want to say that they write in the text about particularly loaded details? Not a word about the frame, but they only write “some components”, this is the first thing. MIM technology allows you to make parts that then do not require further processing, that is, even if it were a pistol frame, it was simply cast, and it would not require further processing; this is the essence of MIM technology. For self-education: http://www.baikalinc.ru/ru/info/mpm.html Balkan website, what can be done using MIM, and the MIM technology itself http://mim-technology.narod.ru/preimusestva.htm
        Quote: strelok-54
        The workpiece is sintered and then finished milled.

        And you, in turn, write about a piece of sintered metal for subsequent milling. It turns out they didn’t even get to the bottom of it...
    69. 0
      18 June 2015 18: 22
      Quote: Sukhoi
      I went into the pavilion and touched the pistol. It fits perfectly in the hand and is much more comfortable to hold compared to the PY, although the weight is approximately the same. The materials are high quality, made to last. The descent is normal and comfortable. The bolt stop lever is quite tight, I think it will come apart over time during operation. The location of the fuse is, in my opinion, unfortunate; The pistol is not ready for instant shooting. Glock is doing much better in this regard, although its proprietary Safe Action system has been repeatedly criticized for involuntary self-inflicted shootings.
      In general, the pistol leaves a pleasant impression of itself, it is strong and moderately weighty. I would certainly like to get to know him better at the shooting range)))

      PS The article says about 15 cartridges, the booth employee mentioned 17. Perhaps the second one as an additional one. option.


      Frame made of plastic or light alloy? Is the safety lever obviously too close and you have to reach with your finger, breaking your grip? Judging by the geometric dimensions, there cannot be 15 rounds of 9x19 caliber. The handle is like other pistols and, most likely, it is 17. Or the caliber is different.

      And another question. Is the trigger solid or hinged in the middle like the Smith and Wesson?
      1. +1
        18 June 2015 20: 34
        I’ll say right away that I have little understanding of the topic.
        Frame made of plastic or light alloy?
        - it doesn’t look like plastic either in terms of tactile sensations or weight.

        Is the safety lever obviously too close and you have to reach with your finger, breaking your grip?

        - in my opinion, that’s exactly it, perhaps he was just in a hurry, and there was a line behind him))), he didn’t “gropele” in enough detail

        The handle is like other pistols and, most likely, it is 17. Or the caliber is different.
        - this means there is an error in the article.

        Is the trigger solid or hinged in the middle like the Smith and Wesson?
        - I had never even held Smith in my hands, but the submarine literally turned it over in my hands for another minute and then ran on. If I come again tomorrow, I will try to ask the employees in more detail. I'm ready to relay your questions)))
      2. 0
        19 June 2015 08: 45
        Quote: strelok-54
        Is the safety lever obviously too close and you have to reach with your finger, breaking your grip?

        They seem to use the fuse as a “parking brake” in cars = like it’s not really needed there, but let it be for some cases. Judging by the slick design of the fuse and the safety lock - it’s clearly optimized for cocking the shutter with one hand from something - this is very clearly hinted at flanging of the shutter. Everything is done very elegantly, the 1.5 mm axes are especially touching, they were clearly designed on a computer, and this is a guarantee that they will do it on modern CNCs and the exhibition sample will not differ from the serial one. Well done, apparently the update of the machines at the factory was successful.
    70. 0
      18 June 2015 20: 57
      Some pistol experts. For example, I, as an ordinary “user,” like the super-ordinary PM. Small, at 10-15 meters, without strabismus, very accurate. And his rounded bullet... I don’t remember where or by whom, but after being shot in the forehead, the bull fell down and never got up again.
    71. 0
      18 June 2015 21: 19
      What's the use of a pistol in a fight?

      In 1975 in Angola, Junior Lieutenant Lawrence Van Vuuren, using a pistol with a magazine capacity of 9 rounds, killed 11 Cubans armed with AKs in one battle. This is an officially recognized record.
    72. 0
      18 June 2015 21: 22
      Star BS pistol and two 9-round magazines. The index finger of the right hand was broken before fire contact
    73. +2
      18 June 2015 22: 16
      On "Courage" they posted high-quality photos of the pistol in disassembly http://otvaga2004.mybb.ru/viewtopic.php?id=787&p=6
    74. 0
      18 June 2015 22: 31
      Happy Birthday!!!
    75. +1
      18 June 2015 23: 22
      Thanks to Slesar for the link. Now we clearly see that the PL-14 has indeed incorporated the best solutions from SigSauer and Glock. I'm pleased with the rotary lock for quick disassembly, like Zig's. The return axis is, however, very simple, without a buffer. But this can be solved by customization.
      There are no keys on the trigger and it is not composite, but “solid”, like Zig’s. The material of the frame is unclear. Most likely plastic, but maybe light alloy. Then the casting quality is excellent.

      If they had said right away that Kirisenko participated in the development, half of my questions would have disappeared by themselves.
      1. +1
        19 June 2015 16: 28
        Quote: strelok-54
        Now we clearly see that the PL-14 has indeed incorporated the best solutions

        guys, in the photo of the disassembled PL-14 you can see a strange detail on the frame - it looks a lot like a hidden trigger, doesn’t it?
        1. 0
          24 June 2015 19: 46
          Quote: Locksmith
          guys, in the photo of the disassembled PL-14 you can see a strange detail on the frame - it looks a lot like a hidden trigger, doesn’t it?

          Exactly, he’s the one, I found the information on Popenker’s website
          "The Lebedev PL-14 pistol uses automation using the recoil of the bolt engaged with the barrel, with a short barrel stroke. The breech of the barrel is lowered when unlocked by a figured tide under the breech of the barrel. The barrel bore is locked by engaging the protrusion in the upper part of the barrel with the ejection window sleeves in the bolt. The pistol frame is made of aluminum alloy, in the future it is planned to use a frame made of impact-resistant polymer. The shape of the weapon handle provides a comfortable and natural grip on the weapon, while the maximum thickness of the handle is only 28mm.
          The trigger mechanism is hammer-operated, with a hidden trigger and an inertial firing pin. Shooting is carried out in self-cocking mode for each shot (double-action trigger only), with a trigger force of 4 kg, and the full travel of the trigger is only 7 mm. Additionally, a manual safety has been introduced into the design, which, when turned on, disconnects the trigger from the hammer and has two flat, conveniently located levers on both sides of the weapon. The design provides an indicator of the presence of a cartridge in the chamber, made in the form of a pin protruding from the rear end of the bolt when there is a cartridge in the barrel."
    76. +1
      18 June 2015 23: 40
      View on the right in assembled form. How stupid our journalists really are! Everyone quotes the same text from the sign at the exhibition stand. And one photo on the left is in poor quality. It’s as if it’s difficult to take good pictures live at an exhibition and find out the details of the design and representatives of the plant. ((
    77. +1
      19 June 2015 00: 22
      I don’t argue that everything is good, but everyone has their own BUT.
    78. wk
      +1
      19 June 2015 02: 09
      I'm sick of this Kalashnikov concern, it wants to take over everything!.... to be honest, a year has already passed since the death of M.T. Kalashnikov... and for another 20 years he had nothing to do with the case... but he (sorry for talking about the dead man... talked a lot) and his AK 47... AKM... AK74 - MASTERPIECES! but to crush ALL small arms under your control is generally a crime! PK - sucks RPK - sucks 2 times PKT.... in short, I’m surprised how, with his lobbying, they were able to adopt the SKS... although there was an analogue of Kalashnikov... in general, with all his merits, a controversial figure in the military-industrial complex.... I know, I’ll type a lot of cons, but I haven’t said everything yet... not enough for one post!
    79. +1
      19 June 2015 05: 02
      Great news. The pistol looks simply super, and the long 5-inch barrel in the 9 Luger (only one for now) is the key to good accuracy. The landing of the barrel is very low; there will be minimal tossing of the barrel. This would be a 7,62/25 barrel with an increased magazine capacity. The proven scheme for locking the barrel behind the frame must withstand the harsh tests of the military. This is indeed probably the first pistol in decades that inspires hope that inevitably outdated or unreliable designs will be replaced by a new pistol, or rather a whole family of pistols on a structurally new platform.
    80. 0
      19 June 2015 07: 54
      This machine has one more good property in comparison with foreign prototypes. Due to the elongated rear part of the bolt, the aiming line is longer.
    81. +1
      19 June 2015 10: 29
      Quote: Locksmith
      Quote: strelok-54
      Is the safety lever obviously too close and you have to reach with your finger, breaking your grip?

      They seem to use the fuse as a “parking brake” in cars = like it’s not really needed there, but let it be for some cases. Judging by the slick design of the fuse and the safety lock - it’s clearly optimized for cocking the shutter with one hand from something - this is very clearly hinted at flanging of the shutter. Everything is done very elegantly, the 1.5 mm axes are especially touching, they were clearly designed on a computer, and this is a guarantee that they will do it on modern CNCs and the exhibition sample will not differ from the serial one. Well done, apparently the update of the machines at the factory was successful.


      Shooters often deliberately break an externally controlled fuse. I don’t know how the trigger works on this PL-14. Most likely there is some kind of internal automatic firing pin safety there in addition to the safety lever on the frame. It is introduced into the design as required by US law. You can't sell a gun there without such a safety feature.

      When I saw Andrey Kirisenko in the video, I understood the concept. ))) He is a representative of IPSC, and in the standard class, some fuse levers are cut off or immediately replaced with smaller ones. On PL-14 they are immersed in niches. I think this is good.

      But personally, I would prefer a hammer-operated model if I need to carry a round in the chamber. The deactivated trigger gives a complete and clear idea of ​​the degree of readiness to fire. The first self-cocking shot is normal. Or you can cock the hammer with your thumb before firing. The fuse is not really needed.

      For example, when I chamber a cartridge on a Glock, I know that the firing pin is pre-cocked and that the plunger is blocking it, but there is no feeling of complete security when you then put the pistol in the holster. Because there are no external fuses, the drummer is somewhere inside, you can’t see it. It seems that everyone knows that pre-cocking is not enough to puncture the primer. But still. ))
      1. +1
        19 June 2015 12: 48
        Quote: strelok-54
        , I know that the drummer is pre-cocked, that there is a plunger blocking it, but there is no feeling of complete safety, to


        I have a sad experience in the form of a shot through the scrotum recourse . It's good that the gun was gas fellow .
    82. +2
      19 June 2015 10: 52
      Quote: angel of hell
      FSB General Staff does not buy (and rightly so). And he did not "take it and get rid of it," but asked to be "removed" from me, that's all. It was just then that PYa and Glock arrived. For Glock, "the muzzle did not come out" and the PY was given.


      "Yarygin" is a good machine at its core. Using a file, slightly round off the sharp spots on the bolt so that your hands don’t get hurt. Then the treatment areas are coated with chemical bluing. There is such paint. Loosen the return a little. She's too tough there. The mainspring can also be installed easier. The descent of the PYa, even as supplied from the factory, is very good. The combat accuracy is excellent. In terms of comfort in the hand, no matter what anyone says, it is better than Glock. Nice gun. It’s a pity that they don’t make tritium sights for it like they do for Glock. With them you can shoot confidently even at night.
      1. 0
        19 June 2015 11: 21
        Quote: strelok-54
        Quote: angel of hell
        FSB General Staff does not buy (and rightly so). And he did not "take it and get rid of it," but asked to be "removed" from me, that's all. It was just then that PYa and Glock arrived. For Glock, "the muzzle did not come out" and the PY was given.


        "Yarygin" is a good machine at its core. Using a file, slightly round off the sharp spots on the bolt so that your hands don’t get hurt. Then the treatment areas are coated with chemical bluing. There is such paint. Loosen the return a little. She's too tough there. The mainspring can also be installed easier. The descent of the PYa, even as supplied from the factory, is very good. The combat accuracy is excellent. In terms of comfort in the hand, no matter what anyone says, it is better than Glock. Nice gun. It’s a pity that they don’t make tritium sights for it like they do for Glock. With them you can shoot confidently even at night.
        Finally, two loners met, a “shooter” and an “instructor” IPSC from Novosibirsk. Who don't even know each other...
        Quote: strelok-54
        Using a file, slightly round off the sharp spots on the bolt so that your hands don’t get hurt.
        Dear, have you even held “PY” in your hands? The quality of the military one is not even bad, but the sports Viking was made by trainees.
        Quote: strelok-54
        The mainspring can also be installed easier.

        Well, the mainspring has nothing to do with the trigger? Another supershooter mistake? But no, it’s just a person who’s all on the Internet... For example:
        Quote: strelok-54
        The descent of the PYa, even as supplied from the factory, is very good.

        Blame the mainspring and immediately say that the trigger is already good. You are bursting with contradictions!
    83. +1
      19 June 2015 11: 44
      Quote: Verum

      Blame the mainspring and immediately say that the trigger is already good. You are bursting with contradictions!


      All the contradictions in your head are due to an insufficient level of education and practical training. )) For those who study pistols from pictures, I’ll explain. As factory supplied, the PYa is designed for harsh operating conditions. Taking into account the fact that the shooter may find himself with this pistol in a swamp up to his ears in mud. When compared with other factory-supplied military pistols, the same GSh or Glock, the PY’s trigger can be considered comfortable and understandable. If the owner of the pistol assumes that there will be a lot of shooting and a rare opportunity to clean the pistol, then the return and mainspring should not be touched. The release and reloading are already quite good.

      If a person knows that his service does not allow him to go to a hot spot, but he needs to pass some standards or win service competitions, then he can change the springs and thereby increase shooting accuracy at distances of 25 m and above.

      But in practice, a good shooter has spare springs with him that can be quickly transferred to the upcoming situation.

      And stop writing nonsense on the forum about parts made using MIM technology. Even in open sources you will find confirmation that trigger parts are produced from them, in particular the trigger. Which cannot be called an unloaded part. But in fact, both the frame and the shutter for the P-220 are produced using this technology, it’s just not advertised in open sources. How do I know this? You don’t need to know.
      1. +1
        19 June 2015 14: 56
        Quote: strelok-54
        As factory supplied, the PYa is designed for harsh operating conditions.

        Wow, you turn out to be a true connoisseur and connoisseur. I won’t stop your verbiage, but for some reason the regulars of the IPSC shooting club in Novosibirsk from the Glock - Novosibirsk team did not notice a shooter with a Glock, who was also an aircraft engineer. And there is no such person who has a Glock assigned to him.
        Quote: strelok-54
        And stop writing nonsense on the forum about parts made using MIM technology. Even in open sources you will find confirmation that trigger parts are produced from them, in particular the trigger.

        Dear, are you being a fool or is this how you live?
        Quote: Verum
        You don’t have to tell me about technology, it’s useless to show your level. In Russia, various ANIX pneumatics were produced using this technology.
        And what do you want to say that they write in the text about particularly loaded details? Not a word about the frame, but they only write “some components”, this is the first thing. MIM technology allows you to make parts that then do not require further processing, that is, even if it were a pistol frame, it was simply cast, and it would not require further processing; this is the essence of MIM technology. For self-education: http://www.baikalinc.ru/ru/info/mpm.html Balkan website, what can be done using MIM, and the MIM technology itself http://mim-technology.narod.ru/preimusestva.htm
        Are these not my words or do you have distracted attention?
        Quote: strelok-54
        But in fact, both the frame and the shutter for the P-220 are produced using this technology, it’s just not advertised in open sources. How do I know this? You don’t need to know.

        The P-220 initially had a frame made of conventional aluminum alloy, which was considered modern for 1975. And MIM technology was still in its infancy; even now it is produced with a stainless steel frame. And you simply cannot know about the Zig production technology, even if you really want to.
    84. 0
      19 June 2015 15: 16
      Quote: Verum
      Quote: strelok-54
      As factory supplied, the PYa is designed for harsh operating conditions.

      Wow, you turn out to be a true connoisseur and connoisseur. I won’t stop your verbiage, but for some reason the regulars of the IPSC shooting club in Novosibirsk from the Glock - Novosibirsk team did not notice a shooter with a Glock, who was also an aircraft engineer. And there is no such person who has a Glock assigned to him.


      I see you are starting to get cocky, young man?)) Let's do it this way. When you come to Novosibirsk, bring a million rubles in cash with you. Okay, maybe not a million. Where did the boy get such a sum? Bring at least a hundred thousand. I open the gun safe in front of you and take out the Glock assigned to me. And I’m showing my previous Glock from the next case. Then I show my previous SigSauer. Then I show you my CZ.

      And only then you give me your million, kiss my shoes and modestly retire to your kennel, from where you had the imprudence to crawl out and say nonsense. ))

      If I don’t provide evidence, then I’ll give you my hundred thousand. Is it coming? Isn't it glamorous to make such a bet? ))) At the same time, I’ll introduce you to the FSO employees. You will tell them your knowledge about the General Staff. )))

      Since I know that you will not accept this bet, because it is a losing proposition, I recommend that you become more modest and more careful in your choice of words. ))

      But if anything, then my offer to make such a bet is valid. All forum readers are witnesses. We will film the process of presenting the Glock with my name and the minute of shame. ))
      1. The comment was deleted.
    85. 0
      19 June 2015 19: 56
      Quote: Verum
      Quote: strelok-54
      I see you are starting to get cocky, young man?)) When you come to Novosibirsk, bring a million rubles in cash with you.

      How much aplomb! And what delusions of grandeur! You have a wild imagination and cheap show-offs! Or maybe still by check? Only you know very well that no one will go anywhere because of Internet slaughter. But let's consider it hypothetically...
      Bet? Losing, but not for me. Because at this point a man named Gregory will come into play. And if you are an IPSC shooter in Novosibirsk, you should know him, and he should know you.


      How? ))) Hypothetically? ))) "In this place... Gregory"? )))

      Dear! A lot of words. What is required is a simple answer to a simple question. No need to wag your tail. A man must be able to answer for his words. Or be able to apologize for your words.

      Name the time when we will meet. How and who will open the weapon shop are my questions. Name the time and come with the money. Or apologize as publicly as you dared me here.

      Gregory will answer for him! Kindergarten. )))

      Beware of saying people's first and last names publicly on the Internet. No one will praise you for this. Including my brother.

      so what? Will we meet tomorrow or will we apologize? )))
      1. The comment was deleted.
    86. +1
      19 June 2015 20: 04
      Quote: Strashila
      All that has been adopted today ... in a fair fight, the PMM lost on the topic Rook.
      Appearance like a'la West, like a pseudo Glock ... mounting bar ... which prevents this from being done on PMM.
      In contrast, the PMM system has been tested for decades.
      The feeling that money is excessive, do not know where to go.


      There really is a reason. If we focus on the 9x19 caliber, then a blowback system, like the PM's, works with overload. There is excess energy for a free shutter. Works well on the 9x18 cartridge.

      Therefore, we were forced to consider other locking systems and other pistols.
    87. 0
      19 June 2015 20: 20
      Quote: Locksmith
      Quote: strelok-54
      Now we clearly see that the PL-14 has indeed incorporated the best solutions

      guys, in the photo of the disassembled PL-14 you can see a strange detail on the frame - it looks a lot like a hidden trigger, doesn’t it?


      Oh yes, Locksmith! )) He also says that he doesn’t know much about weapons. )) Indeed, I overlooked this detail. Just as I had convinced myself from the first photos that this was a purely striker-fired system, I still didn’t pay attention to the trigger.

      Indeed, it looks a lot like an internal trigger. That is, this is not a classic striker-fired trigger, like Glock’s, and not a trigger with an open trigger. It is a combination of these two mechanisms. But why did you need to hide the trigger if there is one and what does it give? Could there be increased protection against contamination?
      1. +1
        19 June 2015 21: 49
        Quote: strelok-54
        ... this is not a classic striker-fired trigger, like Glock’s, and not a trigger with an open trigger. It is a combination of these two mechanisms.

        I think so. The trigger appears to sit flush with the safety, quite far from the rear of the pistol. If you shorten the pistol so that the trigger is accessible from the outside, the pistol will become more dangerous. Or give him a beaver (?) tail, like a Colt

        By the way, the barrel of the PL-14 seems to be made of stainless steel
    88. 0
      19 June 2015 22: 04
      Quote: Bad_gr
      Quote: strelok-54
      ... this is not a classic striker-fired trigger, like Glock’s, and not a trigger with an open trigger. It is a combination of these two mechanisms.

      I think so. The trigger appears to sit flush with the safety, quite far from the rear of the pistol. If you shorten the pistol so that the trigger is accessible from the outside, the pistol will become more dangerous. Or give him a beaver (?) tail, like a Colt

      By the way, the barrel of the PL-14 seems to be made of stainless steel


      Definitely stainless. )) And the back of the bolt was deliberately pulled back. They closed the trigger and extended the aiming line. Maybe the bolt weight was increased for softer recoil. There may be a reason for this decision to make the design more cohesive, less clingy to gear. I hope someday we will read explanations from the author or authors themselves.
    89. 0
      20 June 2015 07: 16
      Quote: strelok-54
      Definitely stainless. )

      I'm willing to bet it's regular barrel steel.
    90. 0
      20 June 2015 10: 29
      Quote: bunta
      Quote: strelok-54
      Definitely stainless. )

      I'm willing to bet it's regular barrel steel.


      What is there to argue with here? )) What is “regular barrel steel”? Regular structural steel is St3 or St45. These are not used for making barrels, as the rifling will wear off instantly. "Stainless steel" is jargon. It is correct to say "corrosion-resistant alloy steel". Alloys differ from each other in the number of additives. And finished products also depend on the heat treatment method. The steel used to make barrels contains quite a lot of alloying additives that increase wear resistance and corrosion resistance.
    91. 0
      20 June 2015 10: 50
      Quote: Verum
      .. Unfortunately, I live a little far away, but I would have come to see such a legendary “personality”. Only even if I am present, your absence is guaranteed! Because applying coloring and testing the strength of your “personality” would be the highlight of the program.


      I almost thought that you live far from Novosibirsk. )) Otherwise, he wouldn’t have thrown around such words as “rosy behavior” and wouldn’t have been afraid to come to the club to get to know me personally.

      For reference. There is no instructor "Grigory Privalov" at the SSC "Sibir". It is a nickname.
      1. 0
        20 June 2015 17: 18
        Quote: strelok-54
        and was not afraid to come to the club to meet me personally.

        I stopped being afraid to go to a meeting with someone when I was a teenager, when people went out on the street. And the difference between what you wrote in VO and what you seem to have written in Hansa has global differences.
        Quote: strelok-54
        For reference. There is no instructor "Grigory Privalov" at the SSC "Sibir". It is a nickname.

        Did I write that he is an instructor? I can post all the IPSC instructors of the Novosibirsk region and even with their certificate numbers. And will this change anything? Unlikely! You will continue to raise your self-esteem on sites like VO, where 90% of readers are ordinary people who are not in the know at all!
    92. 0
      20 June 2015 20: 36
      Quote: Verum
      You will continue to raise your self-esteem on sites like VO, where 90% of readers are ordinary people who are not in the know at all!


      I think the topic is closed. I provided you with evidence that I have a Glock and had other pistols. There is no interest in discussing anything else with you.
      1. 0
        22 June 2015 02: 45
        Quote: strelok-54
        I think the topic is closed. I provided you with evidence that I have a Glock and had other pistols. There is no interest in discussing anything else with you.

        Only real evidence matters in life! And without evidence, everything is just words! Everything else is in PM. If I'm wrong, then I apologize for my words!
    93. 0
      23 June 2015 10: 45
      So, there was no data on firing from the PL-14 yet?
      Has anyone come across it?
    94. 0
      23 June 2015 12: 34
      Excites. Class.
    95. 0
      26 June 2015 22: 43
      Having processed the available information, I agree: the PL-14 will remain as a civilian weapon. It will not enter the army.
    96. 0
      29 June 2015 09: 06
      Quote: bunta
      Having processed the available information, I agree: the PL-14 will remain as a civilian weapon. It will not enter the army.

      What if it’s more detailed?
      What do you think are the reasons?
    97. 0
      29 July 2015 21: 21
      Quote: Stalevar
      "Kalashnikov" got down to work at Stakhanov's pace! Here you will find traditional automatic weapons, equipment for special forces, boats and drones. Here, we got to the pistols. It looks like the potential of the concern is very powerful. While it is difficult to say whether the mentioned sample turned out to be successful, but one thing is important here - EXPERIENCE! He is known as the son of difficult mistakes, but he is priceless !!! Experience is something that cannot be bought, traded, or stolen. And it is the experience that is especially valuable. Let our clever girls work. Let them try, think, construct. And experts in "Kalashnikov" gathered, apparently, not the most ordinary.
      We will follow.

      This is what “Public-Private” partnership means! A purely “state” enterprise takes years to create a product, spends years testing it, takes years to bring it to the consumer....as a result, an obsolete object!

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