Military Review

The Federation Council announced the possible withdrawal of the Russian Federation from the treaty on medium and shorter-range missiles (INF)

184
The head of the Defense and Security Committee of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation, Viktor Ozerov, said that Russia could withdraw from the Treaty on Intermediate-Range and Short-Range Missiles (INF) if the United States begins to build up its military grouping in Eastern Europe. At the same time, Viktor Ozerov noted that Russia is interested in the implementation of this treaty, but only if it does not negatively affect the security of the country. Victor Ozerov quotes RIA News:

If the United States begins to build up its grouping in Eastern Europe and the goals of this grouping are definitely not the third or fourth positional areas in the Middle East, but to the open Russia, then Russia has enough strength and means to adequately respond - starting with the actual exit from the INF and the strengthening of the Iskander factions along our western borders.


The Federation Council announced the possible withdrawal of the Russian Federation from the treaty on medium and shorter-range missiles (INF)


The senator noted that if the United States is not going to take into account Russia's regional interests, the Russian Federation is ready "for other operational measures."

It is hardly worth hoping that the United States, without any force majeure, can afford to change its own policy and begin to take into account someone’s interests, and especially the interests of the Russian Federation.

For reference: the INF Treaty was signed by M. Gorbachev and R. Reygan in 1988. The USSR and the United States, under an agreement called "indefinite," refused to manufacture, test and deploy ballistic and cruise missiles of medium (from 1000 to 5500 km) and short (from 500 to 1000 km) range.
184 comments
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  1. Vadim237
    Vadim237 5 June 2015 20: 54
    +31
    In principle, it is already necessary, otherwise these overseas cannot calm down.
    1. Baikonur
      Baikonur 5 June 2015 20: 57
      +26
      Moreover, they themselves do not comply with the agreements!
      1. Eugene-Eugene
        Eugene-Eugene 5 June 2015 21: 18
        +1
        The main thing is to suffer, time plays against all, but it’s far from us. This is the protection of the holozada of Europe, it will be a separate conversation with her.
        1. veksha50
          veksha50 5 June 2015 22: 44
          +11
          Quote: Eugene-Eugene
          The main thing is to tolerate, time plays against everyone,


          The fact of the matter is that not against everyone, but against Russia ...

          If Russia - I am 100% sure of this - does not attack the United States or NATO without declaring war, then the TA side can deliver a preemptive strike without warning - easily ... And they now have enough opportunities ...

          A good review was today in the news regarding our capabilities, a certain deputy expressed some fabrications ... A couple of faults in the earth's crust and the notorious Yellowstone are given, which Russia, without striking a specific territory of the United States, can make it so that the US territory is simply washed away. ..

          Nobody needs disasters, but the states should think about it ...
          1. Rus2012
            Rus2012 5 June 2015 23: 25
            +3
            Quote: veksha50
            If Russia - I am sure of this at 100% - does not attack the United States or NATO without declaring war, then the TA side can deliver a preemptive strike without warning - easily ...

            ... but how do you imagine a declaration of war and let's say the "launch at the appointed time" X "mode?
            It seems that no one has canceled this mode ...

            In fact, this means -
            if the country's top leadership is confident that all methods of preventing a nuclear war were used and they did not lead to the elimination of this danger, then it goes over to this regime.

            Regarding missile defense systems and the advanced deployment of US nuclear weapons in Europe, one must take into account the entire completeness of countering this threat.
            It just takes into account the proactive elimination of these threats. It is guaranteed to have time to destroy them before the take-off of these funds, i.e. preventively and regardless ...

            Accordingly, the option of a "mirror response" is also envisaged: the deployment of INF means on the OBD on distant shores - o5 Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua ...
            1. Eugene-Eugene
              Eugene-Eugene 5 June 2015 23: 45
              +4
              How did you get carried away ... What are you talking about? Are we waiting for the Apocalypse in the coming weeks? If it comes even after 10 years it will not change anything - everyone will be ashes, only a little later. I'm talking about something else: HEADLIGHTS, radar, electronic warfare, speeds, "stealth" - what creates re-equipment and, as a result, the ability to repel the FIRST strike. The picture of 2 MB has practically not changed from a technical point of view (only + an upgrade), but the WORLD has changed - we are all extremely connected. Retrofitting, like nuclear weapons, is not a guarantee of a future war, it is a way to avoid it.
              1. Kasym
                Kasym 6 June 2015 01: 19
                +4
                Maybe these events in Ukraine were aimed at placing shock rockets near the Russian Federation? There, to Moscow km. 800.
                But they are unlikely to have Ukraine already - the West does not intend to drag such a clamp.
                All this again looks like the Cold War - the barriers were set up in the form of sanctions, now they want to deploy the missiles.
                Build new pipelines and forget the EU for a couple of years, blocking all energy flows in response. Then we'll see. They strangled the USSR economically - it is possible to press them too - to open a loyal valve, sew others. And half an EU Iskander enough. lol
                1. 34 region
                  34 region 6 June 2015 04: 13
                  -1
                  Kasym! 01.19. Here you are a smart man (judging by your comments). I respect you directly for your balance. But! War is not only tanks and planes. Here explain how accounts between foreign banks and property in foreign countries with the closure of the valve are communicated to each other. After all, they can arrest both accounts and property. How to deal with this?
                  1. max702
                    max702 6 June 2015 10: 53
                    +2
                    Well, Duc and bourgeois ownership in Russia is full of full, this is the oil and gas sector (30-40%) and the automotive industry, and processing, and I don’t even want to talk about retail chains .. Losses in case of withdrawal of capital from both sides will be approximately equal, proof of this is such a fact .. What if the withdrawal of our capital by the West would have been profitable for a long time ... There they would not suffer sentiment but only a cold calculation.
                  2. Setrac
                    Setrac 6 June 2015 18: 03
                    0
                    Quote: Region 34
                    Here explain how accounts between foreign banks and property in foreign countries with the closure of the valve are communicated to each other.

                    Bank accounts are just numbers on computers. Real value - people, industries, resources.
                    Quote: Region 34
                    property arrest

                    Will the US send bailiffs to Russia?
                2. Vasiliev Yu
                  Vasiliev Yu 6 June 2015 06: 08
                  +3
                  If only it was so easy to refuse energy supplies. We are still dependent on them (on dollars from these supplies), and it is unrealistic to transfer all volumes to other consumers at once. And how many years and money will it take to build other corpse pipes? America, the EEC and use this, remember South Stream, Bulgaria. Until the policy of our "economists" changes, everything will continue. And when our "economists" see their light, how many more years will it take to build their own production to receive taxes from them, and not from the gas and oil pipes in the main?
                3. Bayonet
                  Bayonet 6 June 2015 06: 26
                  +1
                  Quote: Kasym
                  They strangled the USSR economically - it is possible to press them too - to open a loyal valve, to sew off others.

                  Having closed the valve, we will block the flow of money into our treasury! Since our economy is mainly raw (the Raw material economy is an economy oriented towards the export of hydrocarbons, oil, gas), who will strangle whom is another question. More likely themselves!
                  1. Kasym
                    Kasym 7 June 2015 01: 36
                    +1
                    Bayonet, 34 region. So new pipelines (China, Turkey) and liquefaction compensate for the loss from sales along the Ukrainian route. Therefore, I write - build new pipelines. And the arrest of real estate in the West to compensate for the arrests of immovables. app. companies in Russia.
                    The bottom line is that without cheap energy products, spare parts. comp. will take off due to expensive alternative supplies. I agree that the big players will survive, but the overall EU economy will suffer. And what sanctions can they still include? Long, cheap loans were cut off; some goods under the embargo. What else? They have reached the "bottom" - nothing else to beat. That is, after the construction of new infrastructure in Asia, the EU will need Russia more than vice versa. They should be especially worried about Altai, which is powered at the fields that "feed" the EU. In this light, the statement of Japan about its intention to build gas is interesting. pipes up to them. Also, the Korean version cannot be discounted - gas may simply not be enough. Therefore, it is interesting how relations with Iran will develop. After connecting it to its infrastructure, Gazprom will become a MONSTROM that will entangle the entire Eurasian continent and argue with it is more expensive for itself. hi
                4. ver_
                  ver_ 6 June 2015 08: 41
                  +1
                  .. ". we write two, seven came to mind." , you might think that we don't have short- and medium-range missiles .. - it's one thing the declared range and the real one ... these are two big differences, as they say in Odessa .. You can always make a small one out of a big one ..
                5. atalef
                  atalef 6 June 2015 09: 22
                  -6
                  Quote: Kasym
                  They strangled the USSR economically - it is possible to press them too - to open a loyal valve, to sew off others. And half an EU Iskander enough.

                  All this leads to a new year of arms, the USSR was already in it and it broke it.
                  Russia (in comparison with the USSR) is a much weaker state - at the same time, the West and the USA remained and I would say they developed much stronger
                  Where it leads ?
                  In my understanding of the war, because I don’t see another way to get out of this spiral.
                  Will Russia win? I think, yes, she already won once (USSR) - the results are still not clear.
                  Try to look even further - a rampant arms race, a decline in living standards, then a war (I hope not a bad one) - excuse the hegemony of Russia and its protectorates in Europe - there will be no a priori, since there will be no reason or strength to rule Europe and Russia (sorry), nor the flexibility of the mind, and the presence of the complex is not complete - only this will exacerbate.
                  shopping mall you can ride tanks in Berlin for a week or two, and then officials will have to establish local life and it is desirable that the new foreign citizens be satisfied
                  At the expense of whom? Will they love Russia after that? - No, Afraid - yes, the result?
                  Where the niches --- were already in this - the result is known, to step on the same grabs is wonderful.
                  Our parents were waiting for the arrival of communism (like grandfathers and great-grandfathers), but they did not wait, standing in line with string bags for a bright future
                  Prove nothing, increase armaments, introduce money to the non-production sector, save on your citizens (in dreams of a great victory) and think about the day that will be after the war.
                  To me that one, it more reminds a fairy tale about a fisherman and a fish.
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 09: 31
                    +2
                    Quote: atalef
                    All this leads to a new year of arms, the USSR was already in it and it broke it.

                    Excuse me, what broke the USSR?
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 6 June 2015 09: 40
                      -2
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Excuse me, what broke the USSR?

                      The wise leadership of the CPSU and the Politburo laughing
                  2. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 09: 32
                    0
                    tell me, why did you go to Israel?
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 6 June 2015 09: 41
                      +4
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      tell me, why did you go to Israel?

                      Because I'm Jewish wink
                      I hope that Jews should live in Israel, do you have any problems? hi
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 09: 54
                        +2
                        Quote: atalef
                        I hope that Jews should live in Israel, do you have any problems?

                        Well, actually a rare stupidity, a huge number of Jews live both in the states and in Russia
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 10: 03
                        0
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Quote: atalef
                        I hope that Jews should live in Israel, do you have any problems?

                        Well, actually a rare stupidity, a huge number of Jews live both in the states and in Russia

                        nothing more than stupid Russian living in Russia, because so many Russians live as in the States, Europe or Ukraine.
                      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 10: 41
                        0
                        let's decide immediately Israel and Russia two essence are different things to one another and one hundred years there is no second for a thousand
                      4. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 12: 33
                        -3
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        let's decide immediately, Israel and Russia are two different

                        The fact that things are different is for sure
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        one more and one hundred years there is no second for a thousand

                        Jesus probably lived in Russia laughing
                        How old is it from his Christmas today?
                        And you know, I’ll tell you a terrible thing, Israel was before Jesus laughing
                        The land of Israel (Hebrew Eretz-Israel) has been sacred to the Jewish people since the time of the biblical patriarchs - Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Scientists attribute this period to the beginning of the 2nd millennium BC. uh[thirteen]. According to the Bible, the Land of Israel was bequeathed to the Jews by God in order to become the Promised Land - here are all the sacred places of the Jewish people.

                        I wonder where Russia was 4000 years ago?
                        The first mention of the name “Rus” dates back to the same time as the information about the Antes, Slavs, Wends, that is, to the XNUMXth – XNUMXth centuries Describing the tribes that lived between the Dnieper and the Dniester, the Greeks call them Antes, Scythians, Sarmatians, Gothic historians - Rosoman (light brown, light people), and Arabs - Rus. But it is quite obvious that the discussion was about the same people.
                        Years pass, the name "Rus" is increasingly becoming collective for all tribes living in vast spaces between the Baltic and the Black Sea, the Oka-Volga interfluve and the Polish borderland. In the IX century. the name “Rus” is mentioned several times in the writings of Byzantine, Western and Eastern authors.

                        The ethnic definition of this people is a matter of debate, since in some sources Russia is identified with the Slavs, and in others it is very different from them. The history of Russia can be traced back to the 1st half of the 2th century, but its exact reconstruction remains unreliable due to the lack and contradictory nature of the sources. By the middle of the XNUMXth century, the “Russian clan”, which constituted a squad of fellow tribesmen led by the Prince of Kiev, united the lands of the Ilmen Slovens, Glades, Krivichy under its rule and made most of the other East Slavic tribal unions and a number of Baltic and Finno-Ugric tribes dependent [ XNUMX].
                        600th year, and some kind of horseradish from Kiev
                        that is, after they mentioned us for the first time somewhere, nobody noticed you like 2500 years, as science says. I'm sorry
                      5. stalkerwalker
                        stalkerwalker 6 June 2015 12: 48
                        +7
                        Quote: atalef
                        The ethnic definition of this people is a matter of debate, since in some sources Russia is identified with the Slavs, and in others it is very different from them. The history of Russia can be traced back to the 1st half of the XNUMXth century, but its exact reconstruction remains unreliable due to the lack and contradictory nature of the sources.

                        The first mention of Slavic tribes (sklavenah), belong to the second half of the II century A.D. These were tribes that stood out from their kindred tribes. ants и walled, and settled on the middle course of the Danube, where they raided the territory of the crumbling Roman Empire. The name Rus (Rossy, Rus) came later in another geography - at an intermediate segment "from the Varangians to the Greeks" from Novgorod to Kiev.
                        As for the people of Israel ... That current state, located on the eastern shore of the Mediterranean Sea, has only a toponomic connection with the people of the same name, which is mentioned in the Bible. The same applies to the Egyptians. Like the inhabitants of Rome. As with the current inhabitants of Greece.
                      6. hrych
                        hrych 6 June 2015 13: 41
                        +3
                        A thousand years BC, the name of the Etruscans - Rassen, Rosen, Rusny.
                      7. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 14: 23
                        -1
                        Quote: hrych
                        A thousand years BC, the name of the Etruscans - Rassen, Rosen, Rusny.

                        only a thousand?
                        Can I have some reference to the connection between the Etruscans and the Russians (only please, not from the website of the newspaper Tomorrow)
                      8. hrych
                        hrych 6 June 2015 14: 35
                        +2
                        Communication in self-name, as a linguistic community. The Russian language is Indo-European and this is enough, because Tyrrhenes in the language are typical Indo-Europeans.
                      9. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 15: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: hrych
                        Communication in self-name, as a linguistic community. Russian is Indo-European and that’s enough

                        This is you from the name Etrusci laughing
                        Zadornov to help you
                        The Etruscan language is an extinct Etruscan language whose origin is not established. Apart from the possible relationship between Etruscan and two other dead languages ​​- Retian and Lemnosian, Etruscan is considered an isolate language and does not have relatives recognized by science. One of the hypotheses about the possible relationship of the Etruscan is the version of S. A. Starostin and I. M. Dyakonov about the relationship of the Etruscan language with the extinct Hurrian and Urartian. Other scholars [who?] Continue to insist on the relationship of Etruscan with the Anatolian (Hitto-Luvian) branch of the Indo-European languages. Given the few known Etruscan words and only limited knowledge of Etruscan grammar, all these assumptions are very speculative to a very large extent.

                        Quote: hrych
                        because Typical Indo-Europe Tyrrhenes

                        belay
                      10. hrych
                        hrych 6 June 2015 15: 32
                        +1
                        That's just the Latin language, as the Romans actually descended from the Etruscans, anyone knows this, who has read the history of Rome. Of course, you can refer to some Palestinian academics, but the fact that the kings of Etruscan origin ruled Rome before the time of the republic is certain.
                      11. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 15: 58
                        -1
                        Quote: hrych
                        That's just the Latin language, as the Romans actually descended from the Etruscans,

                        Did you say that they are Russians? belay
                        that is, the Romans are descendants of the Russians, and the Latin is akin to the Russian.
                        I didn’t know, but I would say, and I could not think belay
                        Quote: hrych
                        read the story of Rome

                        I read it, and I’ve been there several times, and I’ll go again in October. I will look for traces of Russians in the Forum, the Capitol, in the Coliseum
                        Quote: hrych
                        You can certainly refer to some Palestinian academics

                        Why, refer to Zadorny, believe me - the authority is the same
                        Quote: hrych
                        but the fact that the kings of Etruscan origin ruled Rome before the time of the republic is certain.

                      12. hrych
                        hrych 6 June 2015 17: 53
                        +3
                        Firstly, it was not the ancestors of the Russians who were scattered, but the brothers, the Russians, lived on their land during the time of the reign of the scattered in the Mediterranean, and 15,5 thousand years before that according to the range of the Aryan haplagroup R1a, the center of which was in Russia. Who are, for example Tarquinia, you probably still need to read. Latin is the most common Indo-Aryan language and naturally very Russian is close, I had to study it at the university and have a solid four in the exam. Giving dare, twirling-twirling, miscer-stirring, etc., etc. Any eccentric knows why a group of Indo-European languages ​​is called that way and you don’t have to hatch your eyes and put an inappropriate fragment, just like the Semitic-Hamitic group African dialects.
                      13. Bayonet
                        Bayonet 7 June 2015 10: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: hrych
                        Who are, for example Tarquinia, you probably still need to read.

                        Clear stump! - Turkmens!
                      14. andj61
                        andj61 7 June 2015 11: 08
                        +2
                        Quote: atalef
                        Zadornov to help you

                        Alexander, you pile the cow in the bathhouse. Tell me, what are the current Jews of Israel related to the historical Jews of Palestine?
                        That they revived the Hebrew book language and are now speaking it? So the ancient Aramaic differs from the current Hebrew no less than the classical Latin of the ancient world from the medieval medieval Latin, which was spread in Europe even 400-500 years ago. And the first Hebrew-speaking Jew appeared only a little more than a hundred years ago, and not 4000 or 5000 years ago.
                        By the way, religion is different. Judaism today - the mainstream - is in many ways even different from what it was 70-80 years ago, and even from that ancient Judaism with temples it is very far away. In practice, Christianity has gone a little further from that ancient Judaism than modern Judaism.
                        You immediately tried to put people in their place in the discussion — they say that you, as a people, are only 1000, a maximum of 1500 years old — you do not need to be compared with us, the wise and ancient, who are somewhere around 5000, and maybe all 6000 years old! So the people began to cite the Etruscans as an example. Although this hypothesis is interesting, it was precisely the knowledgeable Slavic languages ​​that advanced in deciphering their written language.
                        The fact that the Romans stood out from the Etruscans is beyond doubt. But the Russians are unlikely to have any relation to this.
                      15. The comment was deleted.
                      16. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 14: 24
                        +3
                        Quote: atalef
                        Jesus probably lived in Russia

                        do not equate the ancient kingdom of Israel and the state of Israel, these are two different things
                        Quote: atalef
                        I wonder where Russia was 4000 years ago?

                        in the same place where now it can only be called differently and the Russians never left their land
                      17. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 15: 23
                        -3
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        do not equate the ancient kingdom of Israel and the state of Israel, these are two different things

                        Of course, and only Crimea with the Kuril Islands-- truly Russian

                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        in the same place where now it can only be called differently and the Russians never left their land

                        But to reinforce somehow it is possible (with a reference of some authoritative one), such a well-known fact cannot escape academic science. hi
                      18. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 15: 54
                        +5
                        Quote: atalef
                        Of course, and only Crimea with the Kuril Islands-- truly Russian

                        well, he became Russian only about 200 years ago, but this is more than the age of the state of Israel
                        Quote: atalef
                        And to reinforce somehow it is possible

                        what exactly can you reinforce that the Slavs lived here and did not leave this territory ?!
                      19. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 16: 05
                        -3
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        well, he became Russian only about 200 years ago, but this is more than the age of the state of Israel

                        25 again, read the story
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        what exactly can you reinforce that the Slavs lived here and did not leave this territory ?!

                        Well, let's start with this.
                      20. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 16: 07
                        +2
                        Quote: atalef
                        25 again, read the story

                        you can't read, do you need to read by ear ?!
                        Quote: atalef
                        Well, let's start with this.

                        why?
                      21. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 16: 11
                        -1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        you can't read, do you need to read by ear ?!

                        Yes, please explain why Russia has the right and connection with the Crimea and New Russia. and Israel has no modern and ancient?
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        why?

                        from when did you come and from where?
                      22. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 16: 27
                        +3
                        Quote: atalef
                        Yes, please explain why Russia has the right and connection with the Crimea and New Russia. and Israel has no modern and ancient?

                        probably because it was not the Jews who decided and created the state of Israel
                      23. andj61
                        andj61 7 June 2015 11: 16
                        0
                        Quote: atalef
                        Yes, please explain why Russia has the right and connection with the Crimea and New Russia. and Israel has no modern and ancient?

                        Why is it not? If we consider the Khazar Kaganate to be the heir to the ancient Jewish kingdom, then it is quite possible! a significant part of these lands was just part of the kaganate. Only on the territory of New Russia there were practically no people then, with the exception of nomad Turks, to whom, however, the Khazars also belonged.
                        So, it’s quite possible to justify historically Israel’s rights to Crimea and New Russia! bully
                      24. hrych
                        hrych 7 June 2015 12: 55
                        +1
                        There was a correspondence between Rabbi Khasdai and the Khazar King Joseph
                        Joseph unsubscribed:
                        "You ask me in your letter" from what people, what kind and tribe are you? "I inform you that I [descend] from the sons of Japheth, from the descendants of Togarma."
                        Those. descendants of Japheth - Aryans
                  3. Kasym
                    Kasym 7 June 2015 01: 46
                    0
                    Atalef. God forbid to fight. The point is that there is something to answer for the deployment of US missiles in the EU without new developments. And about the economic war, I had in mind the following. From its pipeline system, the Russian Federation is highly dependent on the EU (hence the receipt of foreign currency). And when the Asian one appears, integrated into the old, then this dependence drops. On the other hand. Because of the price, the EU needs pipeline, Russian energy resources. And if we talk about Eastern Europe, the dependence is very strong, both in gas and in oil. Namely, they are most Russophobic. It’s not enough to block that Poland and Romania. The Baltic states will not be delighted either. hi
              2. Moore
                Moore 6 June 2015 07: 42
                +2
                Quote: Eugene-Eugene
                Re-equipment, like nuclear weapons, is not a guarantee of a future war, it is a way to avoid it.


                Avoid the war, I think will not succeed. There are cases, such as a check to the king, when he is obliged to make a move.
                Japan was not going to fight the United States, but the shah, in the form of a ban on the import of oil and metal, put the samurai between choosing to attack or surrender right away. True, they did not have a joker in the sense of nuclear weapons ...
                In our case, the shah is unleashing a war no matter who in the PMR. I think it won’t reach the nuclear war, but it’ll have to pour blood over ...
            2. veksha50
              veksha50 6 June 2015 08: 57
              +2
              Quote: Rus2012
              ... and how do you imagine a declaration of war and let's say the regime "start at the appointed time" X "?
              It seems that no one has canceled this mode ...


              Out of 25 years of cadre service, 20 served in the Strategic Missile Forces ... I first heard about this "mode" only from you, being retired a long time ago ...
              1. Bayonet
                Bayonet 7 June 2015 10: 37
                -1
                Quote: veksha50
                Out of 25 years of personnel service, 20 served in the Strategic Missile Forces ... I first heard about this "regime" only from you,

                It looks like this mode is from some kind of computer "shooter".
              2. Moore
                Moore 8 June 2015 05: 50
                0
                Perhaps your interlocutor simply confuses the mode with a signal (order)?
                This is completely excusable, especially since he is not far from the truth ...
      2. GSH-18
        GSH-18 5 June 2015 21: 19
        -17
        Yo, what kind of idiocy? Already by FACT we left this logging agreement in March, by coincidence! Lohautor Che, do not know what ????
        1. GSH-18
          GSH-18 5 June 2015 21: 30
          0
          The site does not correctly position users unfortunately. Here, I am positioning myself for users in the Russian Federation, where ALWAYS I am and do not pay attention to the flag. I am in RUSSIA !!!
          1. Boa kaa
            Boa kaa 5 June 2015 22: 21
            +2
            Quote: GSH-18
            The site is not positioning users correctly unfortunately ... do not pay attention to the checkbox. I am in RUSSIA !!!
            I AM ALSO !!! IN RUSSIA !!!
            GeSha! For a long time already I "spat my hand" (as one good person said) on the flag of my avatar. Admins have already registered me in Foggy Albion! Although, to my regret, I have never been there! Apparently this is revenge for the caring attitude towards the inhabitants of the Jordan Valley! yes
          2. Bayonet
            Bayonet 7 June 2015 10: 40
            0
            Quote: GSH-18
            do not pay attention to the flag. I am in RUSSIA !!!

            It is clear without a flag ...
        2. Vasek Trubachev
          Vasek Trubachev 5 June 2015 22: 16
          +2
          American hawks will calm down when they receive a military threat on their borders. As long as the US does not threaten anything near their home, they will continue to set fire to the rest of the world.
          1. hrych
            hrych 5 June 2015 22: 32
            +3
            Oh, Vasek, Kurchatov and Trutnev, Korolev and Glushko did not sleep at night, creating intercontinental ballistic missiles with thermonuclear charges that deliver a package to anywhere in the world and on time, and it’s not necessary to climb to their borders.
            1. NEXUS
              NEXUS 5 June 2015 22: 53
              +8
              Quote: hrych
              and it’s not necessary to climb to their borders.

              But for example, it will be much nicer for us to place medium-range missiles somewhere in Cuba, or say in Brazil ... don’t you find it? At the same time, I don’t think that the United States will be as calm about this as if we have ICBMs at home would install in the Urals. hi
              1. hrych
                hrych 5 June 2015 23: 07
                +4
                Let's say, of course, it's nice, but the base needs to be serviced, keep a contingent, take care of air defense, waste energy, drive ships back and forth, etc. And here the package goes on its own right to the place and straight from the Urals. When missiles of the "Sineva" type appeared on the submarines and it became possible to shoot from the pier, their function even changed from an imperceptible approach to the adversary's borders, making his way through barriers and barriers, but simply going into the endless waters of the world ocean (especially under the ice of the Arctic), for a guaranteed response ... drinks
                1. Inok10
                  Inok10 6 June 2015 01: 14
                  +6
                  ... don't put your eggs in one basket .. "All Professions Are Needed, All Professions Are Important" .. drinks ..
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 6 June 2015 14: 21
                    +1
                    Our testicles in different baskets of the nuclear triad, besides mines, submarines, mobile unpaved ones, we also began to make BZHRK Barguzin, believe me a better pair of such trains than keeping a missile base in the tropics. But our White Swans, Bears and Fleet let them hang out with friends in Cuba and Venezuela, and even Clabs in containers will not hurt. hi
                2. novobranets
                  novobranets 6 June 2015 05: 00
                  +2
                  Quote: hrych
                  Say, of course, it’s nice, but we need to maintain the base, keep the contingent, take care of air defense, spend energy, drive ships back and forth, etc.

                  And to see how the mattresses twist on the navel, describe everything around with boiling water belay , and forget in longing for the inevitable and bleak future? crying It is also worth a lot. smile
                  1. ver_
                    ver_ 6 June 2015 08: 53
                    0
                    ... it’s not at all necessary - any civilian container ship can carry missiles in containers - large or small, and ... even deliver to the penguin’s territory and there will be a mini-missile base operating automatically with satellite control of some farmers or ideologists in reservations in the backyard and ... the time of approaching the target is a couple of minutes ..
                  2. hrych
                    hrych 6 June 2015 14: 15
                    +1
                    In the current confrontation (arms race), their thousand military bases that are entangling the world, their 11 aircraft carrier strike groups, become an unbearable burden and will help to dump their economy and their debt under 20 trillion confirmation, and when their only parachute - the dollar will collapse. ..
                3. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 6 June 2015 08: 39
                  +2
                  Quote: hrych
                  Say, of course, it’s nice, but we need to maintain the base, keep the contingent, take care of air defense, spend energy, drive ships back and forth, etc.

                  This is a matter of time of approaching the target and reaction to aggression. Launching a missile from Cuba to Washington, or to New York, in time it is incomparable with the launch of, say, the Voivode from the Urals.
                  Quote: hrych
                  departure to the endless waters of the oceans (especially under the ice of the Arctic)

                  Say everything correctly. But the fleet of submarines needs to be increased and updated for all this. So that the adversary does not entertain himself with illusions (as is happening now) about what can be unleashed and, most importantly, to win the nuclear conflict.
              2. Bayonet
                Bayonet 6 June 2015 06: 30
                0
                Quote: NEXUS
                But for example, it will be much nicer for us to place, somewhere in Cuba, medium-range missiles, or say in Brazil.

                And what will Cubans and Brazilians say about this? Or have we all decided for them?
              3. saag
                saag 6 June 2015 07: 06
                -1
                Quote: NEXUS
                But for example, it will be much nicer for us to place medium-range missiles somewhere in Cuba, or say in Brazil ... don’t you find it?

                Hunt once again to arrange the Caribbean crisis?
                1. NEXUS
                  NEXUS 6 June 2015 09: 06
                  +4
                  Quote: saag
                  Hunt once again to arrange the Caribbean crisis?

                  Do you think that now we have quiet and smooth relations with the United States? America places missile defense systems at our borders ... why isn’t aggression towards Russia? Or do you think that you need to sit quietly and not rock the boat? A Cuban came and offered so that Russia restores its base on the island, as well as the Vietnamese. And I think you can agree with Brazil in the BRICS format and directly.
                  There is nowhere to cling to its borders, and the Caribbean Crisis 2.0 is already taking place.
                  1. max702
                    max702 6 June 2015 11: 07
                    +1
                    Quote: NEXUS
                    and the "Cuban Missile Crisis 2.0" is already taking place.

                    That's right, the war has been going on for a long time and now the penultimate phase is before a sudden strike, troops are drawing to the borders, shock complexes under the guise of missile defense are being built up, the work of the genres of influence in the country and surrounding areas has sharply increased. Only the blind do not see this .. And it seems to me that the debt to Cuba was forgiven for a reason, but with interesting conditions that were not voiced. because otherwise the rustle that stands in the matter of building a fleet does not make sense ..
                    1. NEXUS
                      NEXUS 6 June 2015 12: 32
                      +2
                      Quote: max702
                      the war has been going on for a long time and now the penultimate phase is before a sudden strike, troops are being drawn to the borders, shock complexes under the guise of missile defense are being built up, the work of the genres of influence in the country and surrounding areas has sharply increased. Only the blind do not see this ..

                      Exactly so. That is, it turns out that we should be afraid and remember the Cuban missile crisis, and it seems like this does not concern amers when they place their "Tamaghawks" near our borders ...
                      It is necessary to react according to the size of the threat, and now the level of threat for Russia, looking at how the grouping of forces in Europe is strengthening, is extremely high. Plus, ISIS is heading towards the southern borders, and NATO co-workers with Aegis systems are "registered" in the Baltic and in the Pacific Ocean off our shores. How much longer can you ignore all this?
                2. Stanislas
                  Stanislas 6 June 2015 09: 40
                  +2
                  Quote: saag
                  Hunt once again to arrange the Caribbean crisis?
                  If it doesn’t reach the exceptional ones that you need to remove your axes away from the Russian Federation, then you need to arrange hunting or reluctance - we were not the first to start.
              4. atalef
                atalef 6 June 2015 09: 27
                0
                Quote: NEXUS
                But for example, it will be much nicer for us to place somewhere in Cuba

                It remains only to obtain the consent of Cuba
                Quote: NEXUS
                or say in Brazil ... don't you find?

                No . I don’t find Brazil’s reason to agree to this
          2. Grandfather bear
            Grandfather bear 5 June 2015 23: 00
            0

            Good news from the South!

            And not very from the Donbass:
            Russian Presidential Aide Goes to LPR

            Assistant to the President of Russia Vladislav Surkov will visit the LPR, the leadership of the Republic is preparing a summit.
            1. Sergius
              Sergius 5 June 2015 23: 25
              +2
              Do not expect anything good from the groundhog.
        3. GSH-18
          GSH-18 5 June 2015 22: 30
          +3
          look minus the news! and nehru minominus for the truth!
      3. soldat74
        soldat74 5 June 2015 23: 20
        +1
        Good evening forum users.
        Do you see the majority of the so-called the underworld population, and especially the Amers, have a deep conviction that whatever they do not do is necessary.
        Those. everyone, and especially Russia (Russians) is always to blame for everything. And it is simply necessary to punish them. Such is "their" "absolutely correct" opinion in their opinion. Ha got a pun. And the absolute majority of the American population is convinced of this.
      4. Charik
        Charik 6 June 2015 01: 49
        +2
        they comply just what they need
      5. 34 region
        34 region 6 June 2015 04: 02
        0
        Baikonur! 20.57. Contract? You can choke on your naivety. Treaty of the USA and the USSR. Let's find a thousand reasons for non-compliance with the contract. There is no USSR, there is a desire in Poland or Ukraine to buy prohibited weapons for personal use. After all, it’s not the USA that places something, but the USA-friendly countries. Well this is my naive train of thought. Can you do that?
        1. atalef
          atalef 6 June 2015 09: 28
          -3
          Quote: Region 34
          If Poland or Ukraine want to buy prohibited weapons for personal use

          Seriously ? There is a desire ?
    2. hrych
      hrych 5 June 2015 21: 01
      +11
      The INF Treaty is by no means in the interests of the United States, but ... exclusively of Britain. So draw conclusions.
      1. veksha50
        veksha50 5 June 2015 22: 47
        +2
        Quote: hrych
        The INF Treaty is by no means in the interests of the United States, but ... exclusively of Britain. So draw conclusions.



        Well, for some reason ... and the rest of Europe - too ... Especially - Poland, as the most ardent and obvious ...
    3. Army1
      Army1 5 June 2015 21: 03
      +6
      I would like to believe that a political elite has formed in Russia, for which the interests of the Russian Federation are in the first place and money, and without it, in any way, they have in Russia
      1. vsoltan
        vsoltan 5 June 2015 21: 18
        +2
        Army1

        Oh, dear interlocutor, I'm afraid you are mistaken. ...Alas recourse
      2. dmi.pris
        dmi.pris 5 June 2015 21: 31
        +11
        What political elite ????? .... As the clans ruled Russia, they also remained at the helm .. Kumovism and the impunity of those in power proves this. There are patriotic slogans and a little bit of economic impulses, which in fact mean nothing. Outrages the president's thesis, they say: "There are people there too," meaning those zombies living in Ukraine. By the way, those who pay for communal services are two times lower than ours (even after the tariff increase) ... Russia is not Moscow with a high standard of living, but thousands small towns and villages, the so-called "zamkadyshi" (according to the Moscow elite) with beggarly salaries. Here are the people ... Hey, President!
        Quote: Army1
        I would like to believe that a political elite has formed in Russia, for which the interests of the Russian Federation are in the first place and money, and without it, in any way, they have in Russia
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 5 June 2015 23: 33
          +3
          Quote: dmi.pris
          What political elite ?????.


          DEAR COLLEAGUE, please bring the country where there is another political elite ...
    4. MIKHALYCH1
      MIKHALYCH1 5 June 2015 21: 04
      +12
      It’s necessary to withdraw from all agreements ... Especially since the time of Gorbachev and EBN, the most important thing is from the moratorium on the death penalty! They steal reptiles godlessly ... You need to shoot, and then place the missiles where we want and how we want .. So I think! Roka Chubais are alive .. everything is useless!
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 June 2015 22: 30
        +10
        Quote: MIKHALYCHXNNX
        Reptiles steal godlessly ...

        "The problem of Russia is not to feed the poor, but to THAT THE RICH HAVE RICH!"
        Therefore, can it be faster and easier to "cut short? lol "
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Igor Polovodov
          Igor Polovodov 5 June 2015 23: 00
          +1
          Or rather, so that the rich do not overdo it, or else they get stupid ...
        3. ver_
          ver_ 6 June 2015 09: 12
          0
          ... or put on a stake - this is the most effective medicine - it was used very effectively by Dracula - no one even tried to pocket a gold coin lying on the road - KOL ...
    5. anakonda
      anakonda 5 June 2015 21: 04
      +7
      Compliance with this treaty, paradoxically as it sounds, was very beneficial for Russia, because if the Americans deploy their short- and medium-range ballistic missiles near the borders of Russia, then they can easily reach vital cities in Russia, while Russian missiles of similar range the main enemy will definitely not reach, you need to fight to ensure that this agreement is respected, Russia's withdrawal from the agreement on the RMND is beneficial primarily to the United States.
      1. hrych
        hrych 5 June 2015 21: 13
        +2
        Russia possesses the entire range of these missiles, namely Iskander and the universal mobile complex Rubezh, and the enemy has yet to develop and put them into series (with the exception of the Tamagavks). By the time they decide to create them, Big Ben will have a nuclear tornado demolished.
        1. Yeraz
          Yeraz 5 June 2015 21: 21
          +1
          Quote: hrych
          Russia possesses the entire range of these missiles, namely Iskander and the universal mobile complex Rubezh, and the enemy has yet to develop and put them into series (with the exception of the Tamagavks). By the time they decide to create them, Big Ben will have a nuclear tornado demolished.

          More depressing is another aspect of this issue, the arms race is increasing its pace, and as we remember the last time, this led to the collapse of the country ....
          1. hrych
            hrych 5 June 2015 21: 34
            +13
            The country was destroyed not from the race, but thanks to political bureaucratic traitors.
            1. Yeraz
              Yeraz 5 June 2015 23: 23
              +1
              Quote: hrych
              The country was destroyed not from the race, but thanks to political bureaucratic traitors.

              It was a whole system of problems. We cannot say that everything was due to political bureaucratic traitors. They simply did not want to, but only exacerbated all the accumulated problems.
              1. ver_
                ver_ 6 June 2015 09: 24
                +1
                .. well, of course, the All-Russian Pian Boriska Yeltsin refused the Crimea, although Kravchuk admits that he was not opposed to returning the Crimea to Russia ...
            2. atalef
              atalef 6 June 2015 09: 34
              -1
              Quote: hrych
              The country was destroyed not from the race, but thanks to political bureaucratic traitors.

              not only, but also because of the 5th column, punks, farce and young people running with their tongues sticking out behind their jeans.
              forgot, still because of the Jews hi
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 09: 56
                +2
                Quote: atalef
                more because of the Jews

                only if due to people like you
                1. atalef
                  atalef 6 June 2015 10: 04
                  +1
                  Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Quote: atalef
                  more because of the Jews

                  only if due to people like you

                  . Union I did not fall apart laughing
                  just explain to me why people like you didn't save it? tongue
                  1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                    Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 10: 43
                    +1
                    Quote: atalef
                    Union I did not fall apart

                    you including
                    Quote: atalef
                    why didn't people like you keep it?

                    and shame on me for that
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 6 June 2015 12: 37
                      0
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      you including

                      I definitely do not, because after serving in the SA (mind you honestly) - he left, leaving the country in the care of patriots like you hi
                      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                      and shame on me for that

                      Then start the comments with yourself
                      I’m such and such and like me, I didn’t oppose the course of Gorbachev (as I understand it, with a small bunch of followers) and like a herd of sheep (along with 250 million fellow citizens) - he gave himself to lead and put in a Western stall.
                      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 15: 16
                        0
                        Quote: atalef
                        because after serving in the SA (mind you honestly) - he left, leaving the country in the care of patriots like you

                        and was the oath taken in the army of Israel?
                      2. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 15: 18
                        0
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and was the oath taken in the army of Israel?

                        Of course.
                      3. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 15: 27
                        +1
                        so you old man traitor
                      4. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 16: 02
                        -2
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        so you old man traitor

                        I swore an oath to a country that is not.
                        You swore to her, you didn’t keep her (by the way, your president is one of them)
                        And as for betrayal (developing your thought) as with this
                      5. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 16: 09
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        I swore an oath to a country that is not.

                        and when did you arrive in israel?
                        But what about the golden eagle, do you think that they should continue to serve in Banderostan?
                      6. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 16: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        and when did you arrive in israel?

                        23 years ago, the USSR was gone
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        But what about the golden eagle, do you think that they should continue to serve in Banderostan?

                        I was not a regular military officer. But here we are talking about officers
                        So, it seems to me that the officers swear once (this can still be understood during the collapse of the USSR), but in no case
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        that they should continue to serve in banderostan

                        Then they will say, well, that I had to serve Putin
                        Betrayed once, betray and more.
                        Well, the former Ukrainian military in the Crimea is generally a song
                        My brother-in-law, the son of a classmate, was an officer in Donuzlav, well, of course, he went over to the side of Russia (and why defend what he swore to), but he is the local apartment.
                        Of course, he reassigned, he was very glad that he had returned to * his homeland *, as he said, and his dad was pleased, only he began to send all these reassigners of the RF Armed Forces to various garrisons in the territory of the new and great Motherland (and he does it right), and here he is went to warm the north in the Varkuta region with his hot body
                        Now, for some reason, she complains (it’s dad says - brother-in-law, dad, by the way, complains the same thing)
                        So, a case from life hi
                      7. Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 16: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: atalef
                        So, it seems to me that the officers swear once (this can still be understood during the collapse of the USSR), but in no case

                        and does the Jew say that ?!
          2. Senior manager
            Senior manager 6 June 2015 06: 39
            0
            What race, what are you talking about? Make up for the rout of the Army and Navy in the period of the 90s, nothing more. There is no time for fat, I would be living.
        2. dmi.pris
          dmi.pris 5 June 2015 21: 39
          +1
          How are we going to intercept the Tomahawks? For example, the Smolensk region, the air defense forces were withdrawn, they hope for the Old Man, or what? But the Belarusian Armed Forces need rearmament, there is a lot of junk, intercepting modern missiles with available weapons is problematic ..
          Quote: hrych
          Russia possesses the entire range of these missiles, namely Iskander and the universal mobile complex Rubezh, and the enemy has yet to develop and put them into series (with the exception of the Tamagavks). By the time they decide to create them, Big Ben will have a nuclear tornado demolished.
          1. hrych
            hrych 5 June 2015 21: 47
            +8
            From the Polish border to Moscow, the subsonic Tamagawk fly ... more than 2 hours, the task for the student is the distance by speed = time, and New York will burn out after 20 minutes, and London after 7. Moreover, Tamagavk goes around the terrain on the Russian Plain Does not roll, plus there is EW, which for this device collapses. Question: What kind of madman will commit suicide.
            1. atalef
              atalef 6 June 2015 09: 36
              -4
              Quote: hrych
              . Moreover, the Tamagavk goes around the terrain, which does not roll on the Russian Plain, plus there is electronic warfare, which for this device collapses

              so sure, Comrade Marshal.
              soldier
              especially when any ax, you can fill up EW, not directly getting up from the couch soldier
              1. hrych
                hrych 6 June 2015 12: 00
                +3
                One advantage of the subsonic Tamagawka, I repeat, in enveloping the terrain, at an altitude of more than a hundred meters, it’s an easy target, not even an air defense system, but ... interceptors, which according to this garbage should not even be spent on air-to-air missiles, but to be blown out of the cannon system ... Given the distances to our political and economic centers, hours fly ...
                Sneaking and hiding in the folds of the terrain, there are chances, but not on the plain, but also except for GPS (which is definitely blocked in the war of superpowers), using an altimeter radar it checks the parameters of an electronic terrain map, which our EW type Mercury easily copes with, conflict with the Palestinians, our sage
        3. atalef
          atalef 6 June 2015 09: 33
          -4
          Quote: hrych
          Russia has the entire range of these missiles, namely Iskander and the universal mobile complex Rubezh

          Iskander - a carrier of nuclear weapons? These missiles belong to the class of INF
          Quote: hrych
          and the enemy has yet to develop them and put them into series (with the exception of the Tamagavks)

          Well, then they have enough axes and somehow it seems to me to revive the Pershing (and to develop a new one) somehow they will succeed

          Quote: hrych
          as soon as they decide to create them, Big Ben will be destroyed by a nuclear tornado.

          Menacing fellow
          Especially for you
          1. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 10: 37
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            Iskander - a carrier of nuclear weapons?

            there is no bin, why turn on the fool, including a special charge
          2. The comment was deleted.
            1. atalef
              atalef 6 June 2015 12: 25
              -1
              Quote: hrych
              We have the glory of Ahura Mazda

              Mazda - Ahura? Is a new brand of car laughing
              or are you pers
              Quote: hrych
              The Arab world (which of course Israel swallows and does not choke) began to fall away from the center,

              Do we need more Arabs?
              Quote: hrych
              Egypt cleansed of pro-Zionist fanatics from the fraternity,

              ??
              Quote: hrych
              Syria holds on

              Syria is not long left (sorry), I did not give such a forecast for 5 years, it seems hour X has arrived
              Quote: hrych
              Iraq becomes Shiite

              Shiite Iraq - a new joke
              Quote: hrych
              . Congratulations soon on the Promised Land (where there is nothing besides desert stones and sewage hydraponics)

              exactly, some stones
              As of 2013, agricultural exports to Russia were estimated at approximately $ 80 million. Carrots, potatoes, greens, fruits, as well as organic products are in greatest demand here.

              Quote: hrych
              there will be crazy Ishilovites who will be knocked out from everywhere and they will return to the creator and cut some throats ...

              contradicting yourself, especially in one post
              Quote: hrych
              Arab world (which of course Israel will swallow and not choke)
              1. hrych
                hrych 6 June 2015 13: 57
                +1
                Persians - Iranian-Aryans, Ahura-Mazda - Aryan god, Zarathustra his prophet predicted Christ a thousand years before birth. The Zoroastrian sorcerers showed Christ to the world, having found it thanks to the Star of Bethlehem. Zodiac astrology hails from Zaroastrianism and Christ called the 12 apostles respectively. For a long time, until the Pharisees got into the church, the astrological symbol of Pisces was worshiped in Christianity.
                Quote: atalef
                As of 2013, agricultural exports to Russia were estimated at approximately $ 80 million

                Exclusively thanks to the lobby, your relatives have not yet been thrown out of distribution networks and wholesale bases. The taste and other characteristics of these products are insignificant and without lobbying are uncompetitive in European, Asian and domestic counterparts.
                Syria will outlive Israel, which is a pity.
                The unity and struggle of opposites and contradictions is rather your anti-philosophical blizzard.
                1. atalef
                  atalef 6 June 2015 14: 29
                  -1
                  Quote: hrych
                  Persians - Iranian-Aryans, Ahura Mazda - Aryan god, Zarathustra his prophet predicted Christ

                  the same as a reference to the original, if possible
                  Quote: hrych
                  Christ was revealed to the world by the Zoroastrian Magi, having found it thanks to the Star of Bethlehem

                  Zoroostrian Magi - Jews are now called that way, or what did they do in Judea?
                  Quote: hrych
                  Zodiac astrology originally from Zaroastrianism and Christ 12 apostles called respectively

                  do not remind me (such a stupid one) --- were the same apostles the same nostrils?
                  And only Judas - a Jew laughing
                  Quote: hrych
                  For a long time, until the Pharisees got into the church,

                  All according to the covenants of Christ
                  Jesus' Relations with the Pharisees are depicted in the Gospels On the one hand, Jesus speaks of the need to observe everything that the Pharisees teach, criticizing them for not observing what they are teaching: so all that they tell you to observe, observe and do; do not do their deeds, for they speak, and do not do ”(Matthew 23: 2). Jesus, like the Pharisees (and unlike the Sadducees - Acts 23: 8), preaches the resurrection from the dead and recognizes the existence of angels and spirits.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 6 June 2015 15: 03
                    +2
                    The first disciple of Christ - Andrew the First-Called, has an absolutely male, Greek name, which speaks of his Greek origin, it is naive to believe that fanatics of the Jews gave the names of the invaders, I recall Herod - of Macedonian origin and this territory went to the Macedonians during the division of the Persian (Zoroastrian) empire, and the population , respectively, was mixed and constantly feuding on ethnic and religious grounds. His brother Peter also bore the typical Greek name. Those. Christ's disciples were of both Macedonian and Jewish descent, just as religion did not matter, for the Macedonians, Hittites, Eruzeans, Amorites, and Romans worshiped their gods. Christ himself, in particular, is accused of contempt for the Sabbath, blasphemy and sorcery, i.e. in anti-Judaism, the whole question is closed, to Christaubians hell fire (thermonuclear).
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 6 June 2015 15: 36
                      -2
                      Quote: hrych
                      The first disciple of Christ - Andrew the First-Called has an absolutely masculine, Greek name

                      A long-known fact, the Jews (in the time of Christ) took the Greek and Roman names.
                      Like you, I think the name (either with Greek or Jewish) roots - but this doesn’t make you either Greek or Jewish
                      Quote: hrych
                      Greek name that speaks of its Greek origin

                      Brother (Simon is a Jew), and he Andrey is Greek laughing
                      that Andrei and his brother Simon (future St. Peter) were Galilean fishermen born and raised in Bethsaida (a city on the shores of Lake Genisaret); their father’s name was Jonah [4]. Having grown up, the brothers moved to Capernaum, where they acquired their own home and continued to engage in fishing.

                      and so, the last nail
                      St. Andrew, the first-called apostle of Christ, the son of a Jew named Jonah, brother of the holy Supreme Apostle Peter, was a native of the city of Bethsaida [1].

                      http://azbyka.ru/days/sv-andrej-pervozvannyj
                      Quote: hrych
                      His brother Peter also bore the typical Greek name. Those. the disciples of Christ were also Macedonian,

                      what nonsense in your head
                      Quote: hrych
                      Christ himself in particular accused of contempt for the Sabbath

                      Your not knowing the topic, it just has no boundaries (maybe you are certainly not a Christian), but the tenets of faith must be known
                      The Bible first mentions the special status of the Sabbath in the second chapter of Genesis, when God blessed the Sabbath and sanctified it (Genesis 2: 3). Previously, God blessed the fish, animals, and birds He created (Genesis 1:22), then man, and finally the seventh day on which He “rested”.

                      Proving that it is necessary to keep the Sabbath, and wishing to show its importance, those who fulfill it use the verses: "Woe to those who are pregnant and to those who feed suckers in those days! Pray that your flight does not happen in winter or on Saturday" Mat.24: 19-20. "In order to avoid immeasurable difficulties, Christians should have prayed that" there would not be an escape ... in winter. "And for reasons of holiness, they should have prayed that" there would not be an escape ... on Saturday. "

                      Quote: hrych
                      christ-killers hell fire (thermonuclear).

                      Can you have mercy, converge on the neutron?
                      All the same, Christ bequeathed to forgive his enemies wassat
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 6 June 2015 18: 11
                        +2
                        It is only among the Pharisees that the Jew Christ comes, takes the purebred Jew Shimon and renames him the Greek name Peter, amazing. Your fables must be read without fanaticism and discard such inserts. Plus, many do not know what the Old Testament is, but you and I know that this contract of man with the god Abram and Jacob is concluded by circumcision, this is the covenant belay , in the New Testament, and this is formulated by the concept of the Last Supper, the covenant is to eat bread and drink wine, as they say, feel the difference gentlemen drinks . Hence, such hatred and execution towards Christ, because he simply repealed all laws. The Macedonians owned this land, it is clear that before the advent of the Romans, the Greeks had a privileged position, there were uprisings when local peasants and slaves were tormented. This is indicative of the beating of infants, when Herod, respected by the Jews, cut all the children up to two years. It is not paradoxical, but fishing for the coastal Greeks is the most normal occupation, in contrast to herder-herders. I understand that for the veneration of Christ, we will not shoot at Jerusalem, the descendants of Ishmael will do this for them.
          3. Victor-M
            Victor-M 6 June 2015 14: 32
            +1
            Quote: atalef
            Iskander - a carrier of nuclear weapons? These missiles belong to the class of INF

            Don't be so sure our wikipedian friend. laughing
      2. scientist
        scientist 5 June 2015 21: 34
        +8
        Quote: anakonda
        It is necessary to fight for this treaty to be respected; Russia's withdrawal from the INF Treaty is beneficial primarily to the United States.

        The United States needed the INF Treaty in order to withdraw its NATO allies from a possible strike in the event of a military conflict. It was after this rash step by Gorbachev that NATO began to expand to the East, surrounding Russia with a belt of "controlled chaos." The threat to deploy Iskanders in the Kaliningrad region is a "dead poultry", these missiles will not reach the main US allies with nuclear weapons France and Great Britain. And to aim strategic missiles of the Poplar type at these countries is too much of a luxury. That is why European governments are now choosing the latter between their own security and American handouts.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 6 June 2015 09: 35
          +2
          ... Humpback - dull-headed Beast - it all began with him Everything is very "pleasant" .. for the USSR - a bribe taker, an agent of influence, a henpecked man and a narrow-minded person - like an ostrich hides its head in the sand, he tried to sit out in Foros - he didn't even have enough courage Boriska kutsepaly to take for zebras and calm - liberal cf.
          1. atalef
            atalef 6 June 2015 09: 43
            -3
            Quote: ver_
            Humpbacked - dull-headed Skotina - it started from him

            Well, something like that before Gorbachev - there was no complete chocolate
            You forget a little external factors, namely Reagan dropped oil to 5 bucks per barrel, imposed an embargo on technology --- and everything began to fall
            30 years have passed, but the methods have not changed
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 10: 39
              +1
              Quote: atalef
              Well, something like that before Gorbachev - there was no complete chocolate

              chocolate was just not very bad, unlike today's G
              1. atalef
                atalef 6 June 2015 12: 39
                0
                Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                chocolate was just not very bad, unlike today's G

                It was different, including soy, and today it is different, it just costs money.
                1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                  Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 14: 27
                  0
                  Quote: atalef
                  It was different, including soy

                  let's decide right away either we're talking about chocolate or other things, by the way that soy will give a hundred points ahead of the current "natural"
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 6 June 2015 15: 38
                    0
                    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                    let's decide right away either we're talking about chocolate or other things, by the way that soy will give a hundred points ahead of the current "natural"

                    Try Swiss or Belgian
                    hi
                    Often that. what you ate before and were sure that this is a natural taste, in fact, it was not.
                    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                      Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 15: 58
                      0
                      Quote: atalef
                      Try Swiss or Belgian

                      I tried, the Soviet one was tastier, excuse me
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 6 June 2015 16: 06
                        0
                        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
                        Quote: atalef
                        Try Swiss or Belgian

                        I tried, the Soviet one was tastier, excuse me

                        to taste and color request
            2. Victor-M
              Victor-M 6 June 2015 14: 34
              0
              Quote: atalef
              Quote: ver_
              Humpbacked - dull-headed Skotina - it started from him

              Well, something like that before Gorbachev - there was no complete chocolate
              You forget a little external factors, namely Reagan dropped oil to 5 bucks per barrel, imposed an embargo on technology --- and everything began to fall
              30 years have passed, but the methods have not changed

              Only now everything is falling from them when they are straining. laughing
      3. MIKHALYCH1
        MIKHALYCH1 5 June 2015 21: 49
        +2
        Quote: anakonda
        Compliance with this treaty, paradoxically as it sounds, was very beneficial for Russia, because if the Americans deploy their short- and medium-range ballistic missiles near the borders of Russia, then they can easily reach vital cities in Russia, while Russian missiles of similar range the main enemy will definitely not reach, you need to fight to ensure that this agreement is respected, Russia's withdrawal from the agreement on the RMND is beneficial primarily to the United States.

        Russia is big .. All will not be destroyed! The United States overlaid Russia with all these treaties and sanctions, like a bear in a den .. You can’t get out and get tired of sleeping .. Growl and suck your paw? While the forest is being cut down ...?
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 5 June 2015 23: 21
          +1
          Russia is big .. All will not be destroyed!

          And all is not necessary. We do not have many objects left on which the country rests. For example, to kill large gas pipelines in a dozen places - and we will start sooooo serious problems.
      4. maxcor1974
        maxcor1974 5 June 2015 22: 03
        +4
        In response to the deployment of rocket mattresses in Europe, it is necessary to place Poplars in the Far East. Now the extreme location of our Chita missiles. And from Kamchatka, Sakhalin, the Khabarovsk and Primorsky Territories to the western coast of the states at hand. Moreover, 3,14ndos will be guaranteed to be confident in their destruction even if they strike in the central part of Russia, and such damage is not acceptable for their star-striped thinking.
        For reference, from Sakhalin to Los Angeles about 7700km, from Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky to him-6630km.
        1. atalef
          atalef 6 June 2015 09: 38
          +1
          Quote: maxcor1974
          ado place Poplar in the Far East. Now the extreme location of our Chita missiles. And from Kamchatka, Sakhalin, Khabarovsk and Primorsky territories to the western coast of the states at your fingertips

          I am the same For, Nehru Romanova sleep soundly wassat
        2. ver_
          ver_ 6 June 2015 09: 38
          0
          ... and with the square in general with gulkin x .. - 100 km ..
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 June 2015 22: 50
        +6
        Quote: anakonda
        if the Americans deploy their short- and medium-range ballistic missiles near the borders of Russia, then

        1. They will be met by S-400, S-500 object defense.
        2. We must clearly, firmly and unequivocally (without politeness!) Openly, through the media, tell the people of the countries where these missiles will place that from now on their capital, the positions of the INF, and so on, are entered in the register of distribution of BB minimum average power.
        And there let the satellites explain why, for the sake of the Yankees, they gave their peoples to slaughter!
        3. Place the INF system - turn off the gas! Fortunately, China is ready to buy everything! Further Korea, Japan ... are ready to stick to our Power of Siberia!
        Well, something like that, Mlyn!
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 5 June 2015 23: 29
          -2
          1. They will be met by S-400, S-500 object defense.

          Have they already been adopted? They tried to intercept the INF? Will it work out exactly?

          2. We must clearly, firmly and unequivocally (without politeness!) Openly, through the media, tell the people of the countries where these missiles will place that from now on their capital, the positions of the INF, and so on, are entered in the register of distribution of BB minimum average power.
          And there let the satellites explain why, for the sake of the Yankees, they gave their peoples to slaughter!

          The problems of the Indians, as you know, the sheriff is not too worried. There will simply be a new wave of hysteria on the topic of evil Russian aggressors. Unfortunately, we are not able to wage information wars at the same level as the Americans.

          3. Place the INF system - turn off the gas! Fortunately, China is ready to buy everything! Further Korea, Japan ... are ready to stick to our Power of Siberia!

          Yeah, and put the teeth on the shelf. Where to get the money from?
          There is no need to look at China: it is actively buying up gas producing companies throughout Central Asia, so it is not particularly interested in our gas. The Chinese didn’t even want to participate in the construction of this “Power of Siberia”, they are waiting for us to lay the pipe ourselves. And, by the way, from those fields that are now working for European exports, to China, a new pipe will have to be pulled - and this is a very long and terribly expensive.
          1. hrych
            hrych 5 June 2015 23: 43
            +5
            Here it is liberal propaganda about teeth on a shelf. When under EBN (although also in the USSR) we depended on food for import in food, this was relevant, now Russia is a major grain exporter (the USSR, with the so-called breadbasket, bought grain from ... the United States) for self-sufficiency, while still serving beef. Russia is completely self-sufficient in everything absolutely.
            Where to get the money from?
            Money changers and moneylenders have convinced the naive for hundreds of years that this muck is necessary, all right when there was silver and gold, and now cut paper and not even it, but zeros in computers. They will not take hydrocarbons from us, and who will be left with what? We will remain with oil, gas, uranium, etc. And what about them? They will remain with cut paper, they don’t have a damn.
            1. 34 region
              34 region 6 June 2015 04: 38
              0
              Grunt! 23.43. We will stay with oil! ISIS also has oil. But there is no peace. But in the USA there is peace. Question. Your preference for a war with oil or a world with cut paper or a zeros computer? And for cut paper or zeros to be quoted, you need a quiet life. What the United States is doing today. Everywhere there is war (well, because), and in the USA there are advanced technologies (smart because).
              1. hrych
                hrych 6 June 2015 12: 39
                +1
                This is the blacks in the USA that need to be explained, they are now fed with free benefits and cheap crack, but periodically breaks through until they arrange general chaos. Advanced technology in the USA is over, because the migration of scientists from Europe has ended and the parasitic-stupid mafia has captured scientific laboratories, nothing has been invented for decades, the Nobel has been awarded for discoveries 20-30 years ago. At the technological level, they began to lose in all respects in rocket and space technologies, in the nuclear field, etc. All of their aviation breakthroughs turned out to be a dead end and now even the modest f-35 comes with a creak. For cut paper or noughts to be quoted, you need control over light oil (the production of which is always more profitable than competitors), which in Arabia has ended. The dollar can exist only as an oil dollar and not otherwise. Ukraine is their last chance to destabilize us, but the Crimea and Donbass are no longer theirs, so their plans have already collapsed. But getting dressed in police uniforms and filling up a couple of blacks and causing a real color revolution will not be a problem, I think our saboteurs are ready for the buildup of this scenario and in the near future the US will be swept by a racial war.
                1. Kalmar
                  Kalmar 6 June 2015 23: 06
                  +1
                  The dollar can exist only as an oil dollar and not otherwise. Ukraine is their last chance to destabilize us, but the Crimea and Donbass are no longer theirs, so their plans have already collapsed.

                  The dollar perfectly exists as a guarantee of stability: they say, keep your values ​​in dollars (read: in the US financial system), and everything will be smooth. You can drop the euro at any time, I’m generally silent about the ruble. The basis for the stability of the dollar is instability throughout the rest of the world. Americans have put this issue on the stream for a long time.

                  As for Ukraine, their plans are being implemented cheerfully and successfully there: the war on the borders of the Russian Federation continues and is unlikely to end in the foreseeable future. And this circumstance can be used in a whole bunch of different ways. Let's say, introduce new sanctions, or destroy some economic ties between the EU and the Russian Federation there (remember the South Stream).

                  And getting dressed in police uniforms and filling up a couple of blacks and causing a real color revolution will not be a problem

                  Nonsense. If everything had been so simple, revolutions in the States would have thundered continuously, because there, with enviable constancy, someone is knocking someone. To organize a revolution, we need competent and large-scale work with public opinion; and better than the Americans, unfortunately, no one can do this now.
                  1. hrych
                    hrych 6 June 2015 23: 45
                    +1
                    No nonsense, the film "12 Years of Slavery" was released, and after watching the African-Americans rushed to rob and kill, and the dark-skinned man killed by the police is an excuse, there every day there is more than one of these being felled. To give money to the Hollywood leftists for an even worse film, where slaves are fucked, in a couple of days expect chaos. Everything is much simpler, without large-scale work, like the Maidan, you need to splurge on pies with wild animals, and drink tea with ecstasy and the job is done, oh, and even a crowd of downs should be of the type of Banderlog. So this is not a problem ...
                    1. Kalmar
                      Kalmar 8 June 2015 00: 53
                      +1
                      No nonsense, the film "12 Years of Slavery" was released and here the African Americans after watching and rushed to rob and kill

                      ... and no revolution happened. Films about how poor black people are flattened and mucked - at least eat some booty. So what? You can still recall the films of the same Michael Moore - they generally describe in great detail how the current Amer authorities put cancer in their population. Alas (for us), revolutions do not do that; everything is much more complicated there.
            2. Kalmar
              Kalmar 6 June 2015 22: 55
              0
              Now Russia is a major exporter of grain (the USSR, with the so-called breadbasket, bought grain from ... the USA) for basic products, self-sufficiency is okrom while beef. Russia is completely self-sufficient in everything absolutely.

              Cute, only on the seed market (yes, including those from which the grain is obtained) Russia is a major importer (6th place in the world). At the moment, without import seed, it’s not enough to export; we are unable to feed ourselves. And you can also assess the dependence on imports, say, in industry - there are generally seams. So this absolute self-sufficiency of yours is a myth.

              They will not take hydrocarbons from us, and who will be left with what? We will remain with oil, gas, uranium, etc. And what about them? They will remain with cut paper, they don’t have a damn.

              They will stay with factories / steamboats. And they will certainly find someone else who can get hold of oil, gas and other joys (not only we trade them). But, let's say, you personally are going to do what with oil and uranium? Stove the stove in the country?
              1. hrych
                hrych 6 June 2015 23: 37
                +1
                If it were a myth, then you would have starved the lord, but the war of sanctions is in full swing. The seeds, for your information, are part of the harvest and no more and no less. In the industry, the seams are like how, apparently we are buying rd-180 engines from the states, apparently we are buying Iskander, Yars, we are buying boats from Borei, Su-34, etc., etc. We are building nuclear plants in Iran and so on, or you’ll only get a smelly Chinese iPhone yes Mercedes? The United States in space is not self-sufficient, we only have manned vehicles. For me, this industry is on the crest of the scientific and technical progress, and the household service where we did not succeed only for antlers. It’s like it’s not a crazy person, you know how to write, but you carry such rubbish that we don’t consume oil and oil products, that we don’t load our nuclear power plants, nuclear submarines and warheads with nuclear fuel, and what our missiles and planes fly on, and we use fuel and lubricants we don’t take abroad and there are enough oil refineries. With the current increase in consumption, there is only 10–20 years of oil around the world, even less uranium, and all this is like evil in the bowels of the sworn enemies of the West. Russia is the first in the world in oil production, this player will leave and with what to replace it, we supply a third of gas in the European market, so they swear and continue to take it, nothing to replace, that’s byala. The factories and parades of these poor fellows will stand up without raw materials, as Goering will cry, looking at a swarm of enemy bomb carriers flying over the Reich, when there are aces and there is nothing to refuel, so the Japanese emperor sobbed. Listen to you so Anglo = Saxons and no need to squeak and climb on Bl.Vostok, so apparently out of harm, and not suck at least a little dark brown liquid.
                1. Kalmar
                  Kalmar 8 June 2015 00: 48
                  +1
                  Ooooh, how it’s all running ... Well, okay, in order.

                  If it were a myth, then you would have been hungry, gentleman, but the war of sanctions is in full swing

                  Nonsense, the war of sanctions has not really started yet. They pressed several enterprises and a pack of bureaucrats on the list - this is all nonsense, a subtle, so to speak, hint of thick circumstances.

                  In industry, the seams are a type of how, apparently we are buying rd-180 engines from the states, apparently we are buying Iskanders, Yars, we are buying boats of Borei, Su-34, etc., etc. We are building nuclear power plants to Iran and so on ...

                  You will go through the enterprises that make all this joy: from equipment either antediluvian, still Soviet-made, or modern - imported. Bad luck, huh? In the same Iskander, according to rumors, not only the domestic filling costs. I bet that on the computer from which you scribble your furious post, from the Russian mouse and keyboard at best.

                  For me, this industry is on the crest of the scientific and technical progress, and the household service where we did not succeed only for antlers.

                  Well, if you select a couple of industries so accurately, then yes, everything is cool. But life is not only about flying into space and riveting tanks. Or do you intend to build houses and plow fields with RD-80s and Iskander?

                  you carry such nonsense that we do not consume oil and oil products

                  You seem to know how to read: where did I write this? We consume, of course, but my idea is different: you will not live on bare oil, you will not cook porridge from it and you will not build a house. If we do not change oil for all sorts of joys such as machine tools, technologies and all kinds of household appliances, life will become categorically sad.

                  Oil in the world with a modern increase in consumption remains 10-20 years, uranium and even less

                  Yes, yes, yes, I’ve heard this tale for about 20 years. Unconvincing. And if this is so, then in 10-20 years a great paragraph will come to our great country. This is already sad.

                  Russia is the first oil producer in the world

                  The first is Saudi Arabia, for that matter. Americans in oil production are not far behind us. Here from the audience they are also prompted that up to a third of our oil reserves cannot be developed without the help of American companies - we do not have the appropriate technologies. Think about it.

                  in the European market we supply a third of the gas, so they swear and continue to take, nothing to replace, here's the trouble

                  Only South Stream was drained and did not die. At this rate, transit through Ukraine will soon be closed, and by that time, new suppliers (the same USA) will hurry up. Demand creates supply and all that.
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 8 June 2015 02: 19
                    0
                    Quote: Kalmar
                    the sanctions war had not really begun. They pressed several enterprises and a pack of bureaucrats on the list - this is all nonsense, a subtle, so to speak, hint of thick circumstances.

                    Well, how to say .. as of now, (according to rumors), sanctions are arranged:

                    - the USA initiated them, but
                    - while the main losses are for some reason Europe ..
                    - at the same time, Europe already feels some inconvenience, and it’s not that introducing additional sanctions - the current ones are not a joy ..

                    Quote: Kalmar
                    you will not live on bare oil, you will not cook porridge from it and you will not build a house. If we do not change the oil to all sorts of joys such as machine tools, technologies and all kinds of household appliances, life will be categorically sad.

                    That is, it is assumed that the EU will categorically refuse to take oil and / or gas from the Russian Federation?

                    "This is unlikely" (c) Sukhov.

                    So to whom to sell - most likely will not go anywhere. And from where joy take it - you yourself said the above:

                    Quote: Kalmar
                    They will stay with factories / steamboats. AND they’ll certainly find who else can get hold of oil, gas and other joys (not only we trade them).

                    And now - correct, if I am mistaken:

                    - not the whole world has imposed sanctions against Russia
                    - in the "remaining unblocked" world there are many more countries that produce "all sorts of joys such as machine tools, technologies and all kinds of household goods"
                    - switch (if necessary) to them - a matter of technology, no more

                    It is clear that oil is oil in Africa, and you can’t find an analogue of the French (conditionally) thermal imager right away, but:

                    - no one promised it would be easy
                    - if you don’t find a thread at all, even under the Union there were cunning schemes for acquiring all kinds of very necessary nishtyaks, which the damned capitalists didn’t want to sell to the Soviets lol

                    For some reason, it seems to me that these schemes are now even easier to implement than under the Union .. well, it’s not at all more complicated

                    So not everything is so hopeless. IMHO.
                    1. Kalmar
                      Kalmar 8 June 2015 07: 16
                      0
                      Well, how to say .. as of now, (according to rumors), sanctions are arranged:

                      - the USA initiated them, but
                      - while the main losses are for some reason Europe ..

                      This is just normal - the Americans are once again fighting with the wrong hands. Everything is logical.


                      - not the whole world has imposed sanctions against Russia
                      - in the "unblocked" world, there are still many countries that produce "all sorts of joys such as machines, technologies and all kinds of household goods"
                      - switch (if necessary) to them - a matter of technology, no more

                      Not all. But to switch the same industry, say, from German machines to the same Chinese ones, is not just a matter of technology: not the same quality, not the same capabilities, not the same level of service. And then, this does not fundamentally change matters: we simply become dependent on another "partner".

                      - if you don’t find a thread at all, even under the Union there were cunning schemes for acquiring all kinds of very necessary nishtyaks, which the damned capitalists didn’t want to sell to the Soviets lol

                      According to such schemes, you can piecewise buy something once or twice. Massively and regularly - hardly.
                  2. hrych
                    hrych 8 June 2015 20: 41
                    +1
                    Quote: Kalmar
                    You will go through the enterprises that make all this joy: from equipment either antediluvian, still Soviet-made, or modern - imported. Bad luck, huh? In the same Iskander, according to rumors, not only the domestic filling costs. I bet

                    The so-called antediluvian, if it is capable of producing unique things, then it’s completely at a level, it’s impossible to go through these companies to all kinds of freaks - mode, however, but from the words ... everything there has long been at the level.
                    Read the statistics of the Russian Federation the first place in oil production dear http://wek.com.ua/article/83271/
                    The United States and the EU are buying, like us, mainly Chinese, Japanese, etc., and they don’t worry about anything, the normal division of labor, neither China nor India are going to participate in sanctions, but are only happy to get into vacancies.
                    Here is a small example on the grain http://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/63442/
                    The Russian Federation does not have a food dependence on imports, it goes without saying that it depends on raw materials, everything, as they say, dump, everything else is not essential, Germany will not sell machine tools and machines, it will sell South Africa, China and Korea.
                    I don’t want to argue about gas, apparently, what is the difference in the price of liquefied (with overseas transport wraps, requiring special gas carrier ships that the Turks do not let through the Bosphorus because of danger, and most importantly do not understand the network of liquefaction-liquefaction plants), plus the propaganda of the shale revolution among the liberals is the main argument, only the companies went bankrupt, but oh well.

                    All this is lyrics, and now answer, but you need some care, if you don’t like something you can get out of here, the borders are open. What's next? The sanctions war has not yet begun? So the thermonuclear war will begin soon and what's next
                    1. Kalmar
                      Kalmar 8 June 2015 23: 00
                      0
                      The so-called antediluvian, if it is capable of producing unique things, then it’s completely at a level, it’s impossible to go through these companies to all kinds of freaks - mode, however, but from the words ... everything there has long been at the level.

                      Yes, the milling machine and the sledge hammer are everything. So, I work in one large office related to metallurgy. And the equipment that is "at the level" is imported here (from decaying Europe). A reason to think.

                      The United States and the EU purchases as well as we, mainly Chinese, Japanese, etc., and nothing

                      First, the US and the EU, purchasing Sino-Japanese, can produce their own: there are technologies, and production, and personnel. It’s sad with us.
                      Secondly, no one will impose sanctions against the US and the EU, so yes, there is no need to take a steam bath.

                      will not sell machine tools and machines Germany, sell South Africa, China and Korea

                      Korea is dancing at the United States, so there can be any way. China, by the way, also exports more than 60% of its products to the United States: they, too, will not want to spoil relations with such a buyer.
                      I also note modestly that to buy all this stuff, you need dollars, which can only be obtained from the sale of oil / gas, which you still need to be able to sell ... Well, etc., we have already discussed above.

                      I don’t want to argue about gas, apparently, what is the difference in the price of liquefied (with overseas transport wrap ...

                      The point is not only in the wrapping, but also in the reliability of supplies. South Stream has been closed, transit through Ukraine is staggering due to the war. At this pace, the EU may come to the conclusion that it is somehow more reliable and cheaper to drive gas carriers. They won't come themselves - big brother will.

                      and now answer, but you need some rage, if you don’t like something, you can get out of here

                      Personally, nothing is from you, I just try to look at things soberly and share my thoughts about it. Fell - it is, of course, an option, but are you sure that this will fix something in the country?

                      So the thermonuclear war will begin soon and what's next

                      It will begin, it will begin, without fail, you just do not worry)
                      1. hrych
                        hrych 9 June 2015 18: 01
                        +1
                        No matter how difficult you are, there was no South Stream, there were preparatory measures and agreements of intent, the ukroprovod has already lost its relevance. Have they forgotten about the "Northern" and that through the White Russia they have increased the cross-country ability?
                        http://vz.ru/economy/2015/1/16/724679.html
                        First of all, I repeat, once again, it is necessary to build liquefaction plants in Europe, which, the goat understandably, should be in a port, and deep-water (a gas carrier is the size of a tanker), where if technically liquid fuel is easily pumped out, technically liquefied gas is completely different. the pressure is enormous. Further to this plant, a gas pipeline should be built and connected to the country's GTS system. The network of gas pipelines, branching from the main pipe, goes through mountains and fields, connecting cities, factories, power plants, and all this was built from our pipes for more than thirty years. Many of the EU countries do not have access to the sea at all, neither Austria, nor Hungary, nor Serbia (these are consumers of the former promising Yu.Potok), nor the Czech Republic, nor Slovakia, and even if there are pipes, then the direction of the flow is opposite and which one will reverse and what is needed for this. You just can't imagine all the nuances, because apparently far from this topic. The United States wanted to get hooked on its own gas, but even Britain is not engaged, the most important thing a third of gas in the EU is Russian, but 70% belay theirs and they need to raise prices for the profitability of overseas cranks, and some EU countries are stupidly living in transit of our gas, the same Slovakia and belay Germany. Unlike you, Europeans consider every euro-woman and increase the purchase of gas from us. Look at things more sober. And just take an interest in oil and gas production, their transportation, etc. The last Great War was for possession of the wells, the Japanese, Romel and the Italians in Africa tried to capture the wells, they were torn to the Caucasus, at that time our only source of oil and if we hadn’t burst anything it helped, and when the Romanians fell away, the Reich instantly died. The current pipe war is in full swing, because through Syria, d. pass the Qatari gas to Europe and Iran, but did not grow together, learn the pipeline business ...
        2. saag
          saag 6 June 2015 07: 11
          0
          Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
          ! Fortunately, China is ready to buy everything! Further Korea, Japan ... are ready to stick to our Power of Siberia!

          "Not everything is so simple" (C), those two fields are intended exclusively for China, the throughput capacity is 33 billion cubic meters per year, even if you double it, then this is not 150 billion that go to the EU
    6. The comment was deleted.
      1. anakonda
        anakonda 5 June 2015 21: 16
        +1
        Quote: siberalt
        So, Russia in this agreement is left alone, where to go then?

        The USA has not yet denounced this agreement, they have not yet withdrawn from it, but they really want it, and the senator I respect, as I said in Soviet times, unknowingly pours water on the enemy’s mill.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. siberalt
          siberalt 5 June 2015 21: 33
          +5
          If one of the parties in fact does not fulfill the contract (subject of the contract), the section "responsibility of the parties for non-performance" begins to apply. And if there is none, then this is not a contract at all in its legal sense. Gorbachev was also promised not to push NATO eastward. Or are gentlemen's agreements also being ratified? Something like this. hi International law has always been the right of the strong.
          1. Throw
            Throw 5 June 2015 23: 12
            +1

            MIKHALYCH1

            Russia is big


            You are not looking at a geographic map.
            And on the maps of population density, location of large administrative, industrial centers, transport hubs.
            Learn a lot)
            1. 34 region
              34 region 6 June 2015 04: 41
              +1
              Lance! 23.12/XNUMX. So what is the map? Loop inside the Moscow Ring Road, you won’t be mistaken.
              1. Throw
                Throw 6 June 2015 15: 41
                0
                Well, everything is not so bad, important infrastructure facilities not only inside the Moscow Ring Road))
                But localization, yes, is large, despite the overall size of the territory.
    7. siberalt
      siberalt 5 June 2015 21: 11
      +5
      So, Russia in this agreement is left alone, where to go then?
    8. Locksmith
      Locksmith 5 June 2015 22: 07
      +1
      Quote: Vadim237
      In principle, it is already necessary, otherwise these overseas cannot calm down.
      Reply Quote

      There is no longer any sense other than the political one. In fact, there used to be a problem with the delivery of "light and heat", now this problem has been removed, any more or less living submarine can easily realize its potential without literally leaving the "parking lot"
      And then it turns out that our "partners" in Europe will already be shaking the muds, the tip of the blow, as usual, is itself directed (forgive for the ridiculous pun) to a real goal (they themselves wanted, as the grandmothers say, "Let the seeker find him", I doubt that the current politicians are ready " to lay "the country under the forced, (we suffered very much before inflicting laughing ) strike, even if it’s just from an anti-aircraft missile = (who does not know this is generally a feature of our air defense bully )
      1. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 5 June 2015 23: 20
        +1
        Quote: Locksmith
        strike, even if just from an anti-aircraft missile = (who does not know this is generally a chip of our air defense

        And you think why Iran S-300P is still trying to get from us!
    9. Juborg
      Juborg 5 June 2015 22: 10
      0
      In principle, the United States continued to test and produce a similar class of missiles.
    10. The comment was deleted.
    11. Lenin
      Lenin 5 June 2015 23: 10
      0
      In fact, it is necessary to restore everything that was killed by Gorbachev. The glory of the USSR, there were no fools there, and the state firmly defended its interests in the world !!! The West understands only power !!!
    12. Zionist30
      Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 40
      +3
      Magnier, 6 Iranian soldiers who arrived in Damascus, are only the vanguard of a larger contingent, whose task is to close the gap created by the undisguised aggression of Turkey and other states in northern Syria. The Turks “crossed the red line” and this is what caused the deployment of Iranian and Iraqi units. A similar answer will be given to the “friends of Israel” in the south of the country.

      Arriving 6 thousand people have already been transferred to combat positions - in Deraa, Hama and Latakia. Their mission is to maintain control over what is happening until reinforcements arrive. These forces will not be used as the vanguard of counterattacks aimed at the return of territories and cities captured by Jabhat al-Nusra, ISIS or CCA.

      The representative of the operational headquarters of the “Axis of Resistance” forces in Damascus rejected rumors persistently spread in the opposition and Arab press about the coordination of the regime and ISIS: “This is a delusional statement that does not deserve comment. ISIS is the enemy of not only the Syrian regime, ISIS is the enemy of the whole world, primarily the countries of the region. Syria is not going to fight instead of the whole world with ISIS. On the contrary, the international community should join in and, together with Syria, make every effort to eliminate this organization. And if this does not happen, we and our allies will focus on strengthening and protecting the capital and the cities that remain under our control, and let ISIS spread outside Syria - to some countries in the Middle East, as well as to African and Islamic countries. ”

      The source said that a completely new situation has arisen in Syria, we are talking about a direct clash between Turkey and Iran in the north of the country. Turkey provided a logistics and support base for Jabhat al-Nusra, which acts as a Turkish proxy. As a result, Idlib and Jisr al-Sugur were captured. Syria has faced the same kind of problem in the south - in Kuneitra and Deraa, where Israel provides local forces with logistics, intelligence, and medical care for the wounded. That is why the Syrian leadership intends to completely review the strategy of warfare and the deployment of troops on the ground, in particular, given the fact that in these areas the opposition has a numerical superiority over the regime and its allies.

      A source said: “After a thorough study of the geopolitical and military situation, it was decided that it was impossible to hold on to everything, that the war would last for many more years, and it was necessary to save both human and technical resources. In this regard, it was decided to abandon areas such as Palmyra and Idlib, despite the propaganda effect generated by their fall. The most important thing is to keep Damascus so that the regime of President Bashar al-Assad always remains a part of the political equation. In this regard, a fundamental decision was made - to leave the vast agricultural and desert territories and the remote cities of ISIS and Jabhat al-Nusra - until the international community realizes the need to create a united front of the war on terror. "

      Therefore, the Syrian regime, Iran and Hezbollah decided that the best strategy would be to concentrate forces to protect specific areas - Latakia, through which the route for supplying equipment and ammunition to Damascus, Hama, Homs, Noble and Zahra is crucial. At the same time, the high mobility of the Syrian army will be supported, taking into account the gigantic territories that will have to be covered. You will also have to resort to the help of trained military specialists from Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan to organize new military bases.

      The source said that two Hezbollah battalions were deployed in Idlib. All the rumors that Hezbollah is exhausted are fake. Hezbollah is throwing more and more units into Kalamun - without having to recall at least one of its officers from Damascus. A source said: “War plans are changing and adapting to reality on the ground, taking into account understanding.”
  2. Alex rus
    Alex rus 5 June 2015 20: 55
    +3
    Timely and correct. The time has come to indicate to mattresses their place in a multipolar world.
  3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Altona
    Altona 5 June 2015 20: 56
    +3
    If we coordinate our actions with China to squeeze the United States out of Europe and the Pacific region, indicating its interests and "red lines", then it may turn out ... The United States can no longer have full-fledged military groups in many regions due to budgetary problems. ..
  5. Knight Rider
    Knight Rider 5 June 2015 20: 57
    +8
    The United States wanted to spit on anyone else's interests besides its own! In the open they are already threatening us with a missile strike, we have completely lost our fear! am
  6. Simon
    Simon 5 June 2015 21: 00
    +2
    What happens, Europe and the States are untying our hands? We have no chance, we will arm ourselves.
    1. Prank
      Prank 5 June 2015 21: 11
      0
      Quote: Simon
      What happens, Europe and the States are untying our hands? We have no chance, we will arm ourselves.


      In what time frame will the revival of missiles result?
      This is despite the fact that they are needed right now, like the BZHRK.
      1. Lyton
        Lyton 6 June 2015 04: 29
        0
        Quote: Stalker
        In what time frame will the revival of missiles result?

        You are aware that the states suspect us of creating such missiles and having them, but there’s a problem with the evidence, that’s why all this talk comes from, there’s no need for such missiles, they can only target them against Canada, but in Europe they’re very against their missile defense facilities important for us, here they are, they are relatively small, they will not be able to intercept them. They bought a bear’s labeled fool for a bead and thought that the agreement was eternal, apparently they didn’t read Bismarck.
  7. gelezo47
    gelezo47 5 June 2015 21: 07
    +2
    The ambitions of the mattresses overshadowed the reality in their eyes! The deployment of their missiles will not scare Russia. We have nowhere to retreat. We have already reached the borders themselves. We must understand that the retaliatory strike will not only hit the countries where the missiles will be placed, but also the mattress itself. angry
    1. tol100v
      tol100v 5 June 2015 22: 46
      0
      Quote: gelezo47
      It must be understood that the retaliatory strike will be not only on the countries where the missiles will be deployed, but also on the mattress itself.

      First of all, on mattress and arrogant Saxons! All the rest are vassals compelled to obey! Big Atlantic puddle of salvation from war will no longer give!
  8. Velesovich
    Velesovich 5 June 2015 21: 07
    +12
    The INF Treaty was signed in a completely different reality. There was a mighty Warsaw bloc, and the Soviet army could have dusted anyone without such missiles. Today, NATO actually borders on St. Petersburg and the Bryansk forests, which even in the worst nightmare could not be dreamed of by Soviet marshals. And in addition to this, in the east a monster grows worse than any NATO - China. This is without taking into account all sorts of different India-Pakistan-Iran-DPRK and other countries with missile programs. And Russia alone is bound by this stupid treaty. Americans are protected by two oceans, but today we need vitally cheap and at the same time extremely effective means of deterrence. Yarsov, Sarmatov and BZHRK are not enough for everyone, it will cost too much. So it's time to get out of the INF.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 5 June 2015 23: 34
      +2
      today we need vitally cheap and at the same time extremely effective means of deterrence. Yarsov, Sarmatov and BZHRK are not enough for everyone, it will cost too much.

      The pathos of the situation is that our industry already with great difficulty meets the needs of the Armed Forces in missiles of various types. Those. it will not work quickly to rivet a couple of hundred "Pioneers" of the new generation; the process will drag on for many years. And here it is appropriate to recall that the Americans did not destroy their medium-range missiles, but carefully disassembled and stored, and now they can also accurately and relatively quickly put them back together. It won't be funny.
  9. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
    Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 June 2015 21: 09
    +1
    In my opinion, the Federation Council has completely lost the adequacy of the people.
    The Medium and Lesser Missile Treaty is beneficial to the Russian Federation. Because it does not allow the United States to deploy MX missiles in Europe - with a flight time to Moscow of 15-20 minutes. Therefore, you need to be a uniform de.bi.lom to get out of this agreement. No matter what short-medium range uber-rockets we create, they do not threaten the United States, because America is far away, but their missiles stationed in Europe will be a big headache for us.
    1. hrych
      hrych 5 June 2015 21: 16
      +4
      20 minutes average flight time of our warheads to New York.
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 5 June 2015 21: 19
        +1
        AND? For large missiles, there are strategic offensive arms. RMND does not fall under START - that is, you can make 100500 missiles with nuclear warheads. Only the Americans are building up the potential for an attack on the European part of Russia, and the Russian Federation is building up the potential for an attack on Poland-Romania-the Baltic states which of course everyone is so sorry for.
        1. hrych
          hrych 5 June 2015 21: 32
          +7
          Just not for them, to take into account the jaws of tactical charges, the United States has masters who live in medieval castles filled with the works of Renaissance masters and trinkets stolen from Native American Maharajas and Native American emperors. The United States is a colony that does not have its own currency, unified laws for the states, and the condoms are either actresses or trained monkeys.
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 June 2015 21: 19
        +1
        Quote: hrych
        20 minutes average flight time of our warheads to New York.

        40
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 5 June 2015 21: 17
      +1
      And what is the US missile defense system deployed in Europe? Are you sure they do not have the function of short-range missiles? And who knows what heads there are on rockets? And the flying time is just as small.
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 5 June 2015 21: 22
        -3
        Quote: kuz363
        And what is the US missile defense system deployed in Europe? Are you sure they do not have the function of short-range missiles?

        Yes, I’m sure, because the SM-3 and the nuclear ballista are so different that there’s nothing to talk about. Only here the question is not in my confidence, but in observing the status quo. Do Americans do missile defense? We have a type of non-nuclear Iskenders. Everyone is happy. But the appearance of MX in Europe - it will be ... sad
    3. IAlex
      IAlex 5 June 2015 21: 35
      +1
      Have you moved? What 15 -20 minutes, from Latvia Pasiene, taking into account the dispersal, it will be in Moscow in 2-3 minutes ... The only plus is that it has an acceleration speed of the initial trajectory lower than that of the S-400 and S-500, with a decent detection range, including most likely they will have time to catch them before reaching the highest point of the parabola ... But there are too many conventions in this case ...
    4. lopvlad
      lopvlad 5 June 2015 23: 01
      +2
      The Medium and Lesser Missile Treaty is beneficial to the Russian Federation. Because it does not allow the United States to deploy MX missiles in Europe - with a flight time to Moscow of 15-20 minutes.

      you say so, as if in Europe there are no nuclear powers that are part of NATO and have short- and medium-range nuclear missiles in service (England and France).
      The INF Treaty is primarily beneficial to the United States, otherwise they would have come out of it long ago as a missile defense treaty.
    5. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 6 June 2015 00: 01
      +3
      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      The Medium and Lesser Missile Treaty is beneficial to the Russian Federation. Because it does not allow the United States to deploy MX missiles in Europe - with a flight time to Moscow of 15-20 minutes

      Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
      Everyone is happy. But the appearance of MX in Europe - it will be ... sad

      I stand on the asphalt, shod in skis.
      Either the skis don’t ride,
      whether I p.zanduty! (with)

      Guys, either I missed something, or you are deeply wrong:
      "In the USA, work on removing the MX missile from service was started unilaterally in 2003 and ended in 2005. D = 9000km, combat equipment 10X300kt." What is an INF missile? This is Piskiper - the strategist! Pershing-2 - yes, it was serious. Therefore, they signed, having launched 3 times more of their missiles under the gulyatine than 108 Pershing. So we didn't have the S-400 then. Iskandarov too. Now the situation is somewhat different. And GB at gunpoint "Aleksashka" should be in order not to rock the boat ...
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 June 2015 09: 07
        0
        Yes "Pershing", of course, I don't know why I confused it with MX. Eclipse is visible
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        Pershing 2 - yes, it was serious. Therefore, they signed it, launching 3 times more of their missiles under the guillineine than 108 Pershing. So then we didn’t have an S-400. Iskander - too. Now the situation is somewhat different.

        All the same, the presence of nuclerenbatons capable of reaching Moscow in a minimum of time is clearly not in our interests
    6. 34 region
      34 region 6 June 2015 04: 48
      0
      Andrey from Chelyabinsk! 21.09/XNUMX. And if our nuclear submarine with missiles launches near Washington? What will be the flying time?
      1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 6 June 2015 09: 57
        0
        Quote: Region 34
        Andrey from Chelyabinsk! 21.09/XNUMX. And if our nuclear submarine with missiles launches near Washington? What will be the flying time?

        Firstly, it would be extremely difficult for our nuclear submarines to approach Washington (in Soviet times, their nuclear submarines were also not easy to approach our coast, now, alas, this is not so)
        Secondly - well, you swam to Washington. Then what?
        In Moscow, we are the center in all respects, including the control of nuclear forces. And the Americans have their headquarters STRATKOM somewhere near Omaha, but not in Washington.
        And, finally, the most important thing - I can’t imagine a situation in which the Russian Federation would launch a surprise nuclear attack on the United States. But the sudden US nuclear attack on the Russian Federation for some reason looks much more likely
  10. The comment was deleted.
  11. kuz363
    kuz363 5 June 2015 21: 14
    0
    It's time to go out
  12. Major Yurik
    Major Yurik 5 June 2015 21: 15
    +5
    We must go out and not think. The world has changed a lot. Labeled one took the word of the West, the agreement does not spell out what one of the parties should do if the other party fails to fulfill the agreement, and this is happening all the time. With NATO, only in this way, otherwise they sit on the neck and still accuse us of violations. hi
  13. jovanni
    jovanni 5 June 2015 21: 16
    +3
    "... Russia has enough forces and means for adequate responses - from the actual withdrawal from the INF Treaty and ending with the strengthening of the Iskander groups along our western borders."

    Unfortunately, our similar answer for seshea is by no means adequate. Put them on the geyropu. Here is the deployment of missiles of different bases around the states - yes ...
  14. The comment was deleted.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 5 June 2015 21: 30
      +3
      Ok, consider. According to strategic offensive arms, the USA and the Russian Federation have approximately = strategic carriers (SSBNs, air, mine, mobile). No one is leaving START.

      The U.S. and the Russian Federation do not have RMSD (officially, in fact, not everything is so mild). The contract is broken.

      The USA can place in the first two years 100-150 mobile installations under Axes. You do not need to do anything, or rather, they have the whole system on ointments, but in canned food. Unless they take a new tractor, and then they’ll pick up the starting chassis from the old ones in canned food on the 200-300.

      Further, more complicated, the United States officially has no new developments on ballistic diabetes. Pershing, too, can not be returned like that right away, there you have to redo a bunch that will result in a new rocket. And this is a lot of time.

      RF - there are rumors that the ballistic missile SD is already flying. Plus all sorts of Iskander-K, but they will be in parity with the Axes.


      However, strategically:
      The Americans again place Axes in the Baltic states, Poland, Romania and Ukraine. Covering the entire European part. Let outdated, but massive missiles (400-600 missiles). All of them will fly directly to Russia, as a maximum they will cause significant damage to targets, at least they will contribute to the overload of the air defense system for the rest of the strike.

      The Russian Federation places Iskanders and a promising ballistic SD, but they cover targets in Poland, Romania, Ukraine, Germany and other Czech-Bulgaria. Which is a pity. Even with US bases under attack.
      1. IAlex
        IAlex 5 June 2015 21: 44
        0
        There is Nicaragua, Venezuela and Cuba, and it is not known about submarines. T.ch. a moot point ...
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 5 June 2015 22: 27
          +1
          Cuba is already a friend of the United States, read the news.

          Nicaragua - 1,5k to the nearest US point. And this is, in fact, only ballistic SD missiles reach the south of the United States. Plus, if you try to fire these missiles, there will be "Cuban Crisis".

          Venezuela is even further. Plus, the overlapping sector is narrow (that is, the main missile route).


          Submarines - so they are on START, those that are SSBNs. Those that are under the Pomegranate - so the Americans there have x40 advantage over missiles even by list, and even if you consider deployed ... We are talking about a sharp change in balance, at low cost.

          To weld up launchers, to put unified firing KPs with batteries on the truck chassis, order more serial unified missiles of the latest modification or take from the availability of not deployed = will significantly increase a single salvo at strategic objects, with a minimum of time and costs. Which will give you a significant advantage. The only reason why this has not been clearly done is the DRMSD. And then, the Americans have now begun preparations to withdraw from the treaty, while the media level, "The Russians are violating! They are testing a trick there and we are not allowed to take the parameters !!!" from the mouths of all sorts of generals, State Department speakers, etc. And with this statement, Ozerov is playing along with the trend of the Americans.

          And so, in theory, and two SSBNs can cause irreparable damage to the United States.
  15. A-Sim
    A-Sim 5 June 2015 21: 21
    +2
    "We will definitely bang. The whole world is in dust! ... but then."
    1. Yarik
      Yarik 5 June 2015 22: 25
      0
      And then ... and then, according to Darwin, p..sy without toilet paper, as is known from laboratory studies, they do not survive as a species.
  16. eskanderRUS
    eskanderRUS 5 June 2015 21: 23
    +3
    A bunch of scum in Brussels and Washington apparently are very eager to unleash a regional nuclear conflict against Russia. For them, the world is over, everything, the end of whom everyone wanted to be robbed and crushed, rested against the wall with horns, this wall is our country, the world of the Slavs and it infuriates them, for them we have a bone in the throat and let it be smashed now. Everything is finite, a comedy, the colonial animal begins to gobble and slowly roll up.
  17. ssn18
    ssn18 5 June 2015 21: 24
    +18
    Hello everyone! And now just think and analyze who ... this agreement was beneficial and who promoted it from the USSR.
    For the USSR, this was pure damage, since the union destroyed the SS-20 and what did not fall under this treaty at all (Oka OTRK) According to the INF Treaty, both sides could destroy up to 100 missiles by launching. And now, as Zadornov says: "Take a breath and feel the respect for your country." The USSR launched 90 missiles (45th Kan division + 45th Chita division), all of them hit exactly "count". According to the performance characteristics of 15Zh45 KTG missiles (technical readiness coefficient) 0,72. Those. out of 100 missiles, at least 72 were supposed to go away. The mattress did not start up, they burned out the engines fixing them on concrete monoliths. Guess not to screw it up.
    As a result, we buried what did not fall under the INF treaty and destroyed the 100% tested Pioneer complexes of two modifications. And all thanks to the marked Judas. I will never forgive this bugger.
    I think I will be supported by the officers who served on the BZHRK "Molodets". This complex of ICBMs did not exist at all, does not and will not be equal anywhere except Russia.
  18. Islander
    Islander 5 June 2015 21: 36
    +9
    RSD will come in handy in Managua on the basis of the Russian Federation, which will be created on the Chinese channel Atlantic-Pacific. (In Nicaragua under an agreement with China)

    The RIAC will come in handy so that people in Poland will remember what is written on the monument to the victims of Bandera in Polish: "May God turn away from me if I forget this."

    Enough to scare the Poles with apples - you need to remind them for their 100 killed. How Bandera nailed the children of Poles (and not only) with nails to a tree - this is the monument and that monster on the basis of which it was made.
  19. florist
    florist 5 June 2015 21: 48
    +1
    Europa is bad, Enti rockets for you wassat
  20. Barakuda
    Barakuda 5 June 2015 21: 50
    +3
    Politics, partners - it’s kind of a good thing. But judging by the way they try to omit Russia (but it doesn’t work out somehow), I would spit on all the agreements, and there is a legal background. Looks like Vova knows what he’s doing, it’s not just to break the Yeltsin Guard, Medvedev is not in vain a lawyer.
    Hodora lowered, Birch bent. And it is completely unknown what will happen to Vasilyeva. request
  21. HUMANOID
    HUMANOID 5 June 2015 21: 51
    +3
    Everything is clear with the USA, they are on another continent, and what are the European mongrel hoping for? From them, in which case, there will be no wet place. fool
  22. Mercenary
    Mercenary 5 June 2015 21: 53
    +3
    It was necessary to terminate this treaty back in the 90s, when NATO, having spat on its promises, began to expand, accusing Russia of approaching the borders of the bloc. It is a pity that war cannot be avoided, but one must be prepared to wipe this scum from the face of the Earth.
  23. uralkos
    uralkos 5 June 2015 21: 55
    +2
    Actually, there were also agreements on not expanding the NATO bloc to the East, which they violated with success. The United States replied to our claims that they signed agreements with the USSR i.e. in fact, with another country, for this they do not believe that they violated the agreements of the time of Gorbachev. We also need to interpret everything and put into service the hypersonic missiles CP and MR actions.
    I think that the Iskanders also need to be upgraded to hypersound, so that would be. Otherwise, there will be a repetition of Stalin's mistake with confidence in the Reich. Only this time, the consequences will be much worse, because the people in Russia already ended. And given the current education, at least 40% will avoid mobilization. Plus, on our territory, read the 5th column openly and again, in fact, there are no counteractions, except on paper.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 5 June 2015 22: 37
      0
      Well, so Iskander-M, if so, doesn’t threaten, even Britain and France, and even to Berlin only YaBCh and then hardly from the border of the Kaliningrad region. And Poland-Baltic-Romanians, well, it will be a pity, probably, maybe.

      Iskander-K, not cut for the DRMSD, finishes off to London and Paris with a ZVO (Pskov and Peter). However, subsonic CDs over the whole of Europe will thin out greatly. As for the hypothetical reciprocal ground Axes is also relevant. However, downed missile defense is also beneficial, since they oversaturated air defense systems and divert forces from other missile attacks.

      With hyper there is not so simple. And the work goes on with all the leading players in the subject.
      1. hrych
        hrych 5 June 2015 22: 44
        +2
        Iskander was originally created as a carrier of tactical vigorous charge. But then the dog is buried, the weight of an ordinary warhead is 500 kg and he throws it at 500 km. Again, the task for the student: if the tactical nuclear charge is 50 - 100 kg, how far will the combat unit be abandoned? The English women are completely versed in mathematics, hence the wild hysteria about this device, especially when he is in V. Prussi or ... in the Crimea.
  24. Days
    Days 5 June 2015 22: 09
    0
    At last
  25. Yarik
    Yarik 5 June 2015 22: 20
    0
    The Federation Council announced the possible withdrawal of the Russian Federation from the treaty on medium and shorter-range missiles (INF)

    Legislators matured. "They took", in fact. Well, okay.
  26. Wolverine
    Wolverine 5 June 2015 22: 34
    0
    And what if Europe completely lost fear.
  27. Ivan Ivanovich
    Ivan Ivanovich 5 June 2015 22: 41
    0
    quickly go out and immediately place ISKANDERS ...
  28. Plastun
    Plastun 5 June 2015 22: 48
    0
    They should know everyone will die ... but maybe we will die last ...
    1. MIKHALYCH1
      MIKHALYCH1 5 June 2015 22: 57
      +5
      Quote: Plastun
      They should know everyone will die ... but maybe we will die last ...

      They will die for sure .. They..But Russia will survive .. Our territory is large and there are a lot of things, tricky things .. And most importantly, our people are tenacious!
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 5 June 2015 23: 43
        +2
        Unfortunately, no one will escape from a nuclear fire - except for submariners and astronauts on the ISS.
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 6 June 2015 06: 56
      0
      Quote: Plastun
      ... but maybe we will die last ...

      Will you enjoy it? It’s worth living for this ...
  29. Garris199
    Garris199 5 June 2015 23: 40
    0
    First, quietly rivet rockets, and only then leave. Amerkos wildly dislikes surprises.
  30. x587x
    x587x 5 June 2015 23: 41
    +1
    It is necessary in Cuba to open a submarine base with nuclear weapons.
  31. Zionist30
    Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 42
    0
    [quote = GSh-18] look minus the news! And the hell of a minus for the incident The nightmare happened on June 4 with a resident of Ashkelon, Eugene Basin, and his girlfriend Margarita Shulman. According to the Mynet website, in the evening of that day, the couple was returning home by car from the center of the country when a group of people in civilian clothes stopped them at the northern entrance to Ashkelon. As it turned out, it was the police who were looking for drugs. The meeting with the guardians of the law cost the returnees dearly.

    Evgeniy recalls: “We drove up to the traffic jam, when suddenly, without any warning - I didn’t even notice how, - several policemen rushed to our car. We only later realized that they were policemen, because they were dressed in civilian clothes without any signs belonging to the police. ”They began to shout:“ Stop! Stop! Take out the key! Don't touch anything! "We were shocked, did not understand what was happening, but I immediately stopped the car and did not touch anything. I emphasize, I did not do any other action and tried to stay cool."

    As the couple recalls, the law enforcement officers began to break the windows of the car. And then it was the turn of the repatriates themselves: they beat both - both the guy and the girl. So much so that Evgeny had blood all over his face, and his head was splitting from blows. Fragile 26-year-old Margarita said that the police beat on the living ... with hammers. She was even more unlucky: when the blood-soaked couple was taken to the Barzilai hospital, she was suspected of having a fractured skull.

    But before calling the ambulance, the guardians dragged the battered repatriates out of the car, laid them on the ground and handcuffed them. The car was turned upside down. In response to a Mynet request, the police said they were looking for drugs, and acted on the basis of operational information and allegedly encountered resistance. They did not find anything.

    However, the beaten repatriates were not left alone. Margarita says that before they let the couple go to the hospital for an ambulance, they managed to hand in summons to appear for the investigation on Sunday, June 7. At the hospital, she had several stitches. The girl will have to be examined in connection with a possible penetration of the skull. Basin and Shulman intend to file a complaint with the Police Crime Investigation Division - the infamous MAHASH.

    Russian MPs tackle soldier beating incident - Ethiopian
    Avdute]
    1. AVA77
      AVA77 6 June 2015 00: 25
      +1
      What is this about?
  32. TOR2
    TOR2 6 June 2015 00: 07
    +1
    Like it or not, the INF Treaty will not live long and we simply need to prepare for new challenges. Perhaps funds will finally be allocated to create missile defense based on new physical principles, otherwise everything is limited to computer simulation in our country.
    About half a month ago I read an interesting article on the translation resource of the foreign press. Mattresses predicted a strike by long-range cruise missiles on their territory. Moreover, part of the missiles flew not in a straight line, but through the territory of Mexico. The result clearly did not please them.
    And at the end, their main defense must be turned against them. If we detonate "Kuz'kina's mother", what wave height will we get? Given their long coastline, a man-made tsunami will have some impact. And if the ammunition is not nuclear, it is generally a beauty.
  33. Yugra
    Yugra 6 June 2015 03: 02
    0
    It is time for us to bring missiles from nuclear warheads to Cuba and Venezuela ...
    1. Lyton
      Lyton 6 June 2015 04: 44
      0
      You have a strategist on your avatar, why bring missiles to Cuba, it is enough to resume combat duty along the coast of mattresses.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  34. tolmachiev51
    tolmachiev51 6 June 2015 03: 24
    0
    The Stars and Stripes mare took a bite at the bit !!! only a good kick in the ass can help. The policy of the gendarme has acquired a national trait, which can only be treated by Iskander.
  35. Vasiliev Yu
    Vasiliev Yu 6 June 2015 06: 15
    0
    This should have been done for a long time, then the nearby mongrels would have thought more than once before saying "tyav". And then, in my opinion, it would not have come to this (as it is now).
  36. Savai
    Savai 6 June 2015 06: 29
    0
    An adequate response of Russia to the Anglo-American war games. If the agreement threatens the country at least with some fire.
  37. Bayonet
    Bayonet 6 June 2015 06: 51
    +1
    The American astronomer Carl Sagan once compared the USSR and the USA with two people standing knee-deep in gasoline, one with three matches and the other with five.
    The result will be one, regardless of the number of matches, ...
  38. Sibiryak13
    Sibiryak13 6 June 2015 06: 56
    0
    It's time to withdraw from the contract. In addition, we are alone there. The Americans then do not comply.
  39. Vasiliev Yu
    Vasiliev Yu 6 June 2015 07: 13
    +1
    The former president of the American Chamber of Commerce in Russia, and now the head of the Washington-based Blacklin & Associates company, Scott Blacklin, a friend of Bill Clinton, was expelled from the country for some violations in Nizhny Novgorod. But before they let him through a special detention center for illegal immigrants in Nizhny. The fact that he was passed through a special detention center for illegal immigrants is beautiful !!! Maybe they have already begun to adequately respond to all the ill-wishers? I hope so, nothing depends on me, it remains only to hope.
  40. saag
    saag 6 June 2015 07: 25
    -1
    some kind of shiz "There were people like people, but they became cretins" (C) movie "Brother", hello, people, this has already happened, and once it almost ended, does it give pleasure to jump on the same rake? Can you read what happened to the Japanese after Hiroshima and Nagasaki and think about it - you need it?
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 08: 19
      0
      Quote: saag
      some kind of schiz

      what are you talking about?
      1. saag
        saag 6 June 2015 08: 30
        -5
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        what are you talking about?

        Yes, about the discussion of the use of nuclear weapons, some - yes, we’ll give a damn about Yellowstone, others are going to bump somewhere, one bang in my head, why people in the USSR understood what this would lead to, but now it’s as if they are playing a computer game or live on another planet? Why during the Caribbean crisis and in the 70s, during the confrontation of two ideological systems, people came to understand that it was impossible to resolve disputed issues in this way, and now, when the confrontation between the West and one man named Putin, people are ready to allow such a development of events?
        1. Vasilenko Vladimir
          Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 09: 26
          +2
          Quote: saag
          when the confrontation between the west and one man named Putin

          Are you serious?
          Do you really think that the West is opposed only to Putin? !!!
          1. saag
            saag 6 June 2015 10: 52
            -4
            Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
            Do you really think that the West is opposed only to Putin? !!!

            The social system in the West and in the Russian Federation - capitalism, therefore there are no fundamental, ideological differences, the only person who does not like the West is Putin.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 11: 42
              +4
              Quote: saag
              The social system in the West and in the Russian Federation - capitalism, therefore there are no fundamental, ideological differences, the only person who does not like the West is Putin.

              pffffff
              the West does not suit SAMA RUSSIA, whether it is communist, socialist or capitalist, with democracy or dictatorship, with a monarchy or some other ...
              She will arrange them only as a colony and us as dumb natives for glasses ready to kiss the sagibs in Zh ...




        2. AVA77
          AVA77 6 June 2015 10: 42
          +3
          Yeah, damn it, Putin is such a mess, and so we’re racketing you on the head but indiscriminately. Did you understand what you’re carrying? 80% of Russia's population supports Putin. Apparently you are not included in these percentages?
          1. saag
            saag 6 June 2015 10: 56
            -3
            Quote: AVA77
            80% of Russia's population supports Putin. Apparently you are not included in these percentages?

            During the referendum, more than 7 percent of the population of the USSR voted for the preservation of the USSR; is this a documented fact recorded in the ballots, where does the information about support in 86 percent of Putin come from? And yes, I’m not that I don’t support Putin, I don’t trust him, here and the fact that he put his party card on the table in 1991 and the strange death of Viktor Ilyukhin and the promise to stand up behind civilians and see, etc., I you know, I try to live with my own head, and not by the TV, which I always wish for others.
            1. Vasilenko Vladimir
              Vasilenko Vladimir 6 June 2015 14: 31
              +1
              Quote: saag
              during the referendum, more than 7 percent of the USSR population voted for the preservation of the USSR, this is a documented fact recorded in the ballots,

              Turnout - 80,03%
              Yes -77,85% (113 512 812)
              No - 22,15% (32 303 977)
              and now a link to your "documentary fact"
              1. AVA77
                AVA77 6 June 2015 14: 56
                -1
                Google to help you. What does the USSR have to do with it? And Putin understood that.
        3. Stanislas
          Stanislas 6 June 2015 11: 03
          +3
          Quote: saag
          confrontation between the west and one man named Putin
          The Department of State sent couch experts a training manual with a new mantra? Demand a better new sofa from them.
          1. atalef
            atalef 6 June 2015 12: 40
            -5
            Quote: Stanislav
            Quote: saag
            confrontation between the west and one man named Putin
            The Department of State sent couch experts a training manual with a new mantra? Demand a better new sofa from them.

            Padded jacket, this is for you. good
            1. AVA77
              AVA77 6 June 2015 13: 05
              +3
              Yes, a quilted jacket is about us. And what about you (......)?
  41. Sultan Babai
    Sultan Babai 6 June 2015 08: 26
    0
    Americans don’t think that the consequences of their escalation will be empty land ...
  42. Alex_59
    Alex_59 6 June 2015 08: 34
    0
    We do not need to withdraw from the INF Treaty. It is better to increase the means of its legal circumvention. For example, in the form of an increase in the number of ships of the 21631 type. Elegant solution to the problem and asymmetric response. The placement of medium-range missiles in watercraft is not prohibited.
  43. Million
    Million 6 June 2015 09: 39
    0
    It’s time, and it’s time, it was time to stop dancing to the tune of the United States, passing laws unfavorable for Russia
  44. Migor102
    Migor102 6 June 2015 10: 24
    0
    amerikasos already climb open ........ dory.pi ....
  45. Aleksander
    Aleksander 6 June 2015 13: 59
    0
    If the United States begins to increase its grouping in Eastern Europe and the goals of this grouping are clearly not the third or fourth positional areas in the Middle East, but openly Russia, then Russia has enough forces and means for adequate answers


    Well, if they say that the goals of this group will be the third or fourth positional areas in the Middle East, then what is it that’s easy to believe, is that all? Some nonsense ....
  46. asar
    asar 6 June 2015 15: 38
    +1

     ›VO, Events in the Federation Council announced the possible withdrawal of the Russian Federation from the treaty on intermediate and shorter-range missiles (INF)
    Yesterday, 20: 52Print
    Viktor Ozerov, head of the defense and security committee of the Federation Council of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation, said that Russia could withdraw from the Treaty on Medium and Shorter Range Missiles (INF) if the United States began to build up its military group in Eastern Europe.

    It is high time! Pay attention to their yapping!
  47. Straight
    Straight 6 June 2015 19: 19
    0
    The United States does not care about Europe, it is necessary to bring missiles directly to the territory of the United States.
  48. 9lvariag
    9lvariag 6 June 2015 22: 53
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    you can't read, do you need to read by ear ?!

    Yes, please explain why Russia has the right and connection with the Crimea and New Russia. and Israel has no modern and ancient?
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    why?

    from when did you come and from where?

    Aleph, but wouldn’t you go on a Eugene Facebook? Or the same google +!
    What you stupid Masonic propaganda spread here, here you are not a collection of Ukrainian shkolota and other admirers of Nazism.
    I also think that you shouldn't rattle about Christian shrines on the portal, to which "matzo eaters and Torah worshipers" are not a dream, not a spirit ...
    How old are you Aleph? I think that no more than fasting on the right - radical Ukrainian channels.