Abortion. To give birth or not to give birth? Orthodoxy and national security of the Russian Federation. Article 1

The head of the State Duma Committee on Family, Women and Children Elena Mizulina (1954), and the Head of the State Duma Committee on Regulations, Sergey Popov (1949), submitted a bill to the State Duma to remove abortion from the CHI (i.e., the abolition of free abortions) and carrying out abortions only in STATE medical institutions with amending the articles on liability for evading its implementation in the current administrative and criminal legislation.

Moreover, a free artificial interruption of pregnancy (ie, at the expense of compulsory medical insurance) in this draft law is allowed ONLY in the presence of MEDICAL (!) Indicators. (The number of such abortions in practice is disregarding (!) A little - 3%.) All other grounds for abortion, such as: rape (?), Under-age mothers, disability and death of the husband, etc. - Now the grounds for free abortion in the Russian Federation are not!

Moreover, a ban is also being introduced on the sale in pharmacies of drugs for artificial interruption of pregnancy.

What does all this mean?

1. First of all, the withdrawal of abortions from the CHI system means a departure - in violation of Article 41 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation - from free medicine in the Russian Federation and its transfer to paid services for Russians. In this case, for now, it is proposed to do this supposedly only in the field of artificial interruption of pregnancy. However, this precedent serves to unbalance the entire political system in the country in the field of health protection. For example, doctors say that there are many situations where, according to the principle “I am guilty!” Because of the so-called "Saving" money from a bourgeois state officials may refuse treatment at the expense of the MHI, for example: cancer and ischemic disease to smoking patients; injuries sustained in the accident, road accident perpetrators and occupational safety violators; in obesity, refuse treatment of cardiac pathology, etc. And so, in the end, to completely eliminate the entire free CHI system - i.e. treat people only for money.

And there really are “hotheads” who consider it necessary to rewrite the Constitution of the Russian Federation under the Mizuli draft law.

2. The very aboral activity in the country becomes the monopoly of the state, and its non-compliance will, of course, be punished by law.

In this regard, for carrying out an artificial termination of pregnancy, if these actions do not contain signs of a criminal offense, the Mizuli bill provides for the imposition of exorbitant fines: 1) for citizens (understand, for the abortion women themselves!) - from 150 to 200 thousand rubles ( now 3-5 thousand rubles.); 2) for officials (understand, doctors in medical institutions) - 500-800 thousand rubles (now 10-30 thousand rubles); 3) for individual entrepreneurs without a legal entity (understand, physicians of private practice and all kinds of "healers") - 500-800 thousand rubles (now 10-30 thousand rubles) or administrative suspension of activity for up to 90 days; 4) for legal entities (understand, clinics, hospitals - public and private) - from 500 thousand to 2 million 500 thousand rubles (now 100-150 thousand rubles) or suspension of activity for up to 90 days.

3. With such penalties and the essence of the bill, experts estimate it as the introduction of a complete ban on abortion for the most unprotected layers of women of childbearing age. The law explicitly and substantially ignores the socio-political-economic aspect of the matter.

Who can pay these fines? Namely.

First of all, few people know that the state is going to set an average abortion fee in the amount of 15 thousand rubles. (Now 5-10 thousand rubles.) - on the principle of introducing the absolute self-repayment of abortion with the provision of profit growth in the medical industry due to an increase in monetary fees from the population for an abortion. How much should a woman earn to pay 15000 rub. for an abortion?

With the subsistence minimum per capita of the working-age population for 4, the 2014 quarter, in the amount of 8885 rubles. in order to pay taxes COUNTRY and 15000 rub. for the abortion itself, as well as 13% tax - and even to live 1 a month - the nominal earnings of a worker should be on average about 27000 rubles. Or, taking into account the annual (!) Accumulation (!) Of an employee for abortion and paying taxes, the average monthly earnings of a worker should not be less than
(15000 rub. / 12 month. + 8885 rub.) X 1,13 = 11453 rub., Or 1,29 from the subsistence minimum of a worker.

According to 2013, the average monthly salary in the amount of 1,29 ÷ 2 of the WEDTING minimum for the RF as a whole in 2013 was received according to the order of 18% to 33% of all employees - http: //www/gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population /trud/obsled/trud2013.htm These are very poor and just poor people. Now - after the fall of the ruble at the beginning of 2015 of the year and the corresponding rise in prices - their number has increased to 40%. Mostly in this area of ​​wages are women. At the same time, the loss of an unmarried pregnant woman even of such work is equivalent to her irrational life disaster - that is, a catastrophe at the level of its biological survival, - the biological survival of a child is no longer objectively said here either.

In his “Explanatory Note” to the draft of this law Ye.B. Mizulina generally calls the desire of a woman to have an abortion no more than a “whim”! (True, she admits that more than 60% (!) Of women are forced to go for an abortion.)

As a result, the most unprotected mainly fall into the aboral group: sexually mature "women" - adolescents and young single women who still have no financial savings for the forced unemployed period, as well as women from poor families and women who the future child refused to support. .

What will happen to these women if the Mizulin bill is passed? Historical practice gives an exhaustive answer to this question.

First, restrictive measures to abort pregnancy always lead to the criminalization of aboral activity in the country, a surge in birth maternal death (70% of which are deaths from community-acquired abortions) and childbirth maternal mortality, a surge in disability of mothers and babies, a surge in medical corruption and in power structures, as well as a surge in infanticide.

Secondly, the surviving abortive women or mother-child-killers will replenish women's camps for prisoners, creating an additional reserve of slave labor in the Russian Federation for boring and hard work for women from the indigenous population of the country on the Russian labor market. Moreover, the convicts will serve as a marginal addition to foreign labor migration, dumping the cost of labor in the Russian Federation and lowering both labor productivity and product quality in the country.

In addition, forced labor must also provide financially! It will be necessary to further expand and financially provide the material and technical base and personnel of the penitentiary system. Etc. Penicular system in itself is worth a lot of money! Where does the money come from?

Previously, supporters of the Mizuli project were anticipating that the money collected in the form of fines from illegal abortions would be used to support children to needy mothers. (Large families and mothers of disabled children dream of it (!) Most of all.) These are illogical dreams. First, this money still needs to be collected! And secondly, even if this money is collected and the corruption rush in the country about this is not taken into account, then the birth rate in the country will increase by force, and hence the number of mothers in need of help will increase. Therefore, those mothers and fathers who dream of making money on the cannibalistic exploitation of corroded illegally aborted women who violate their constitutional rights under the Mizulian law to decide whether to give birth to them or not to give birth will receive a penny, if at all. In addition, with an increase in the birth rate, GDP per capita in the country will also fall. After all, workers in the country will not increase, but, on the contrary, will decrease (many women of working age will simply die from criminal samoaborts), and other children should still be raised. Russia will lose part of the adult female population - WITHOUT WAR! Unforgivable luxury! During the war, our men give their lives and health to protect and preserve their people, including a healthy, young and healthy female population!

As a result, in the “Explanatory Note” to the Mizuli draft law, ALL (?) Saved money on abortions for compulsory health insurance is offered (and this is supposedly of the order of 3 ÷ 5 billion rubles), and it must also be assumed that the money received by state clinics for an abortion for commercial basis, to allow for the maintenance of those pregnant women who were in the so-called. A “difficult” situation BEFORE the moment of childbirth; and, of course, the payment of maternity capital for 2-th, 3-th and more children. This principle of distribution is generally called - "Divide - and conquer!"

4. The disadvantage of the Mizuli bill is also the fact that, taking care of increasing the population in the Russian Federation indiscriminately (!), It excludes in principle the possibility of regulating the biological quality of its replenishment. Drug addicts and alcoholics, too, because "forced" to give birth. Well, they will give up their children who are stateless to the state — and what will happen? What kind of economic efficiency of this law in this regard can we talk about?

So, the Mizuli bill was supposed to be supported by an appropriate business project, in which all social — political and economic — business risks must be identified and calculated, and its scientific soundness and true effectiveness proved. Instead, in Mizulina, only the “Explanatory Note” on moral justifications and financial intentions, which are subjectively idealistic and false, is attached to the draft law!

First of all, the authors and supporters of the draft law in the form of some anonymous experts cannot agree on the source data necessary for a business calculation. They cannot decide on how many abortions are done in the Russian Federation in general, and separately for Russian women (!) And separately for so-called. foreign “labor” migrants (!). According to the Federal State Statistics Service (Rosstat), 2014 abortions were generally done at state clinics for the year in 881162, while observing the tendency for their steady decline over the past few years. Data on the number of abortions performed in private clinics in the Russian Federation does not exist at all. On this basis, you can speculate as many numbers as you want! For example, if doctors believe that along with private clinics in the country in 2014, only about 1 million 600 thousand abortions (Russian and foreign women) were done, then Orthodox sexual extremists everywhere spread rumors that supposedly Russian women make up to 5 -8 million abortions per year! Moreover, these are the numbers indicated by E. B. Mizulina in his "Explanatory Note" to this bill. I repeat: no evidence of these figures was provided! Therefore, we can say that this is not just nonsense - it is provocative profanation!

Moreover, this is the implementation of a strategy of passive aggression against Russia. Moreover, performed on the psychotechnology of the Adam Smith Institute (London). In this case, in particular, informal relevant sophism (introduction) was used - appeal to emotions, when the Machiavellianists force people to make decisions not with reason, but with feelings through forcing emotions. Emotions are more excitable than reason. For example, in the policy of migrant substitution of the indigenous population of Russia by the authorities, the Russians use a quite reasonable sense of fear that we Russians are numerically dying; and also a feeling of super mercy is instilled in people: that the fetus in the womb is also a human being (and the fetus is supposedly more human than the mother herself, therefore, the interests of the mother can be neglected), etc. And also used informal sophism (omission) - an argument for ignorance, i.e. when Machiavellianists, in order to impose a law unfavorable to the people, parasitize on the forgotten ignorance of new generations about the negative consequences of similar social practice in the history of their country. In this case, the negative results of the historical experience of previous generations of people on the ban on artificial termination of pregnancy both in the USSR and in other countries. Moreover, all the data of historical experience, all the evidence of professional eyewitnesses, if they do not fit into the construction of a new Machiavellian concept, the psychotechnology of the Adam Smith Institute recommends that the machiavellists simply stubbornly ignore. What Mizulina does with “Ko” whenever possible. At the same time, her incompetence and adventurism seem to remain behind the scenes.

In the end, more pragmatic people still ask realistic questions. For example. Why did the Church firmly attend to saving state funds, as if killing a future child for money was a lesser sin than the same action, but without payment? And why did the deputies, on the contrary, dive into moral issues, suggesting, in fact, a deliberate execution of a woman who decided not to give birth? What's happening? And here begins the most interesting. (To be continued.)

November 1.06.2015, XNUMX

Comments

[Oberon812]

Legislators suggest: first deal with child mortality, adolescent alcoholism and drug abuse, road deaths, etc. Then - with emigration. But after that - to solve the problems of demography by banning abortion.

[Penzuck]

Child mortality? Give me the digital. And bring the amount of money that the state allocates for all this. Teenage Alcoholism? And what can the state do? To force?

mortality on the roads, etc. - and how?

What about emigration?

Horses mixed up, people ....

[Oberon812]

The numbers? 6,5 per 1000 babies in 2015. Infants, i.e. up to 6 months. I think you will find the rest of the numbers yourself. Only, if possible, indicating the year and the target group, and not as in this beautiful picture.

>> What can the state do? Force?
An article about what the state wants to force to abandon abortion. But he cannot make children not drink. Logically ...

>> road deaths, etc. - and this is how?
A child up to 13 years old without a child seat - scrap right.

>> What about emigration?
Everything is fine with her, no one is leaving us.

>> Horses, people mixed up ...
What is the use of such a trinket? (the poet and verse are the same)

[datura23]

those. babies as if not people?

[Oberon812]

Infants are children up to a certain age, do not distort.

[domokl]

The article makes one think. Indeed, infanticide is disgusting. Everything seems to be correct. Just imagine the situation - a rich woman "flew". And what? They adopted a bunch of "terrible" laws. And she got on a plane and had an abortion abroad. That's all. She wanted to spit on these laws.
But the other one, the one that really "lives on a salary" from payday to payday, will be able to do this? Alas. So to give birth? Yeah. And what is the future of this child with the current level of assistance to mothers and families with children? What future awaits them?
We have already played maternity capital. What did you get? Children as a source of ephemeral wealth? Yes, that's right. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think that a large percentage of those born were born precisely as a "source of wealth"
The law has not been thought out and is largely populist. Indeed, a business plan is needed. Having children should become an economically profitable business. And in solving the "housing" issue, and in solving "credit" issues, and in solving educational issues.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: domokl

. Means to give birth?

So think! Before taking fines for not wearing a seat belt, who was thinking about safety? None. And for your actions you need to answer, and not only before God.
The author is not a very good person, while criticizing supporters of the abortion ban, she did not say a word about the harm to the health of women of these same abortions. Not to mention the moral side.
I would place Mizulina in the draft law - to equate the human embryo with the human legislatively. Abortion is essentially murder. Who can say when the soul appears in the human body?

[Darkness]

So, have you already proven the presence of a soul?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Darkness

So, have you already proven the presence of a soul?

But not refuted.

[Darkness]

Well, it's like having a god. Is it necessary to prove that which is not?

[Armax]

Quote: Darkness

Well, it's like having a god. Is it necessary to prove that which is not?

You don’t worry, you don’t have to prove anything, neither about God, nor about the soul.
In due time, each personally for himself will make this discovery, but alas, it will be too late to change anything.

[prav]

They say to the blind that the sun is, but he doesn’t believe in tupit.

[Volgroo]

To judge, one must be a woman. The fact is that it is necessary to raise a child i.e. to dress, feed, have living space for the child and provide education. Otherwise, a juvenile delinquent will grow up. Why do we need criminals in the country? The law is directed against the interests of Russia. For example, are you ready to take someone else's child to raise?

[ibnvladimir]

I think you have already proven.
PS How many children do you have, as with finances? I myself have a very acute question about children - and I want to, and pricks. If my wife goes on maternity leave, I will only have to go into slavery so that they can live. I love capitalism, his mother.

[Darkness]

Two. Finances are enough up close. I also do not like capitalism.

[Armax]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Abortion is essentially murder. Who can say when the soul appears in the human body?

For me, as an Orthodox person, this question is resolved: the origin of the soul occurs at the time of the merger of male and female cells.
And yes, abortion killing.

[Volgroo]

Suppose that upon refusal of abortion, they pay a woman an allowance of the average level of payment in the country until the child reaches the age of majority and introduce such a law. I think that the country is not yet economically ripe before it.

[Pissarro]

With this proposal, every woman who plans to give birth will come and refuse an abortion for the average payment in the country for 18 years in advance. Do you have any other suggestions? Maybe it’s easier to immediately immediately divide the foreign exchange reserves equally into all?

[ibnvladimir]

In my opinion, it’s absolutely true - populist law.

[ibnvladimir]

Save it. Child = miracle. There should be no talk of any money. It is better to make sure that a man can provide his wife a hut, food, etc. Then the peasant does not hurt Bosko - he knows that he will earn money until he is disabled. And the woman has no problems - give birth, as long as there is a desire. A working man will pull everyone.

[g1v2]

Abortion = killing a child and nothing else. And the punishment for him should be like killing children. If you can’t grow up, refuse the maternity hospital. After the civil and domestic regions, thousands of children grew up in orphanages and became people. Abortion is murder and is permissible only in one case - when there is a choice between the life of a mother and a child. Everything else is murder, and there is no excuse for him. All . Dot.

[Penzuck]

“In 30 years, we have reduced mortality by more than three times. The last indicator that we statistically have is the indicator 2012 of the year: a little over 10 per thousand born children, ”Skvortsova specified.
Is the tendency to decrease child mortality obvious? The state encourages healthy lifestyle - not enough?
Abortion = harm to health. Is it logical

Quote: Oberon812

A child up to 13 years old without a child seat - scrap right.

Hack so hack: Not fastened - to the scrap.

Quote: Oberon812

Everything is fine with her, no one is leaving us.

Iron curtain to bang and not let go?

[alicante11]

A child up to 13 years old without a child seat - scrap right.

Have you tried to squeeze a 12-year-old child into this chair? Well, at the same time listen to what he thinks about you and what his friends think about him, who will see it.
Or tried to put three children in chairs in the back seat?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: alicante11

Have you tried to squeeze a 12-year-old child into this chair?

Now, I was recently punished for 3t.r, for transporting a baby without an armchair. When asked how the inspector imagines this, he replied that it was not his problem. Found for myself the only way out - toned back.

[ibnvladimir]

Something smelled of dialogue about a drunk budget ... It's all from the same opera. I tend to agree with the comment a little higher.

[insafufa]

Well, we have from extremes to extremes as always
We still have the strongest surviving in the jungle
If a person has someone to support in difficult times, then an abortion will not be done by a person.
First of all, we need the peasants to begin to start thinking not with their heads, but with their heads, well, if they blundered and made a child, kindly bring them up. And then, as in a proverb, he sailor and threw in three boxes lying.
For me, abortion is infanticide no matter how much it takes him two days from the moment I conceive or three months. This is a living creature that has the right to life. You can’t help with business by banning the psychology of people, and especially the peasant.

[Darkness]

But on medical grounds - is infanticide or what?

[datura23]

The principle of mother’s life above applies

[insafufa]

Quote: Darkness

But on medical grounds - is infanticide or what?

Well, it’s different how it looks, if a child is dead, it must be removed before infection, then there is no problem.
You know what is used for injections for cosmetology (stem cells) are extracted from embryos after abortions only embryos that have been removed for medical reasons are not suitable for this purpose, pure bio material without defects is needed, this is used by unscrupulous "doctors" bringing the indications of perfectly healthy people to honey.

[Darkness]

Are you working in cosmetology or has Ren-TV seen enough? Do you have a medical education?

[insafufa]

Quote: Darkness

Are you working in cosmetology or has Ren-TV seen enough? Do you have a medical education?

No, after an abortion for medical reasons. Doctors diagnosed the inside uterine death of his wife, the temperature started, and then they cleaned it. Investigators came to us with interrogations. It turned out that a couple of doctors from that hospital received sentences after the investigation and found out that this was exactly what they were doing. But we were not lucky our case was. But they did it very poorly, the wife had to be treated and repeated the procedure cleaned up for money in the best clinic of the city and with the best doctors.
After that, it didn’t work for us for 5 years, we adopted the girl, they stood in line for the second, Allah helped and the son was born and left the line.

[Penzioner]

Well, men will start to think with their heads, not their heads. It turns out that in a year for a child, and sorry to feed them what? Or type you can’t feed, don’t do it? Erasers, so no one will undress them for free, and not even that. Spiral, mine crawled twice .Pills, so it is not yet known what is more harmful for a woman. So it turns out that we will breed poverty and increase the mortality rate among the most efficient women, increase the number of children who refuse to work, etc. But whoever has money to raise ten children (sectarians do not count), they will find an abortion too. such: "let him be alone, but he will have everything"

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: PenZioner

Gum, so no one will undress them for free, and it's not that

Sorry for the frankness, you need to remove it on time.

[insafufa]

Quote: PenZioner

Well, men will start to think with their heads, not their heads. It turns out that in a year for a child, and sorry to feed them what? Or type you can’t feed, don’t do it? Erasers, so no one will undress them for free, and not even that. Spiral, mine crawled twice .Pills, so it is not yet known what is more harmful for a woman. So it turns out that we will breed poverty and increase the mortality rate among the most efficient women, increase the number of children who refuse to work, etc. But whoever has money to raise ten children (sectarians do not count), they will find an abortion too. such: "let him be alone, but he will have everything"

I have a daughter at my very own, plus my own son, but there is no difference between them.
Head I thought before the wedding, another girl in my life was alone and this is my wife. There are many beautiful women, but it’s not worth jumping into the bunk for everyone. As for let him be alone, everything will not work for him when the whole burden of parental aspirations and Wishlist falls on one child, and the child’s life breaks. My brothers and I accomplished a lot; we studied well; we were more disciplined; we grew up as a big friendly family of four in adulthood; there is always someone who will support and help. And if he is the one who will help him and hold him even if he has everything.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: insafufa

There are a lot of beautiful women but it’s not worth jumping into the bunk for everyone

You can jump, but do not forget about the consequences!

[insafufa]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Quote: insafufa

There are a lot of beautiful women but it’s not worth jumping into the bunk for everyone

You can jump, but do not forget about the consequences!

I’ll tell you differently not to run afterwards from being a peasant and take the consequences

[self-propelled]

Quote: insafufa

I have a daughter at my very own, plus my own son, but there is no difference between them.

I have an older son, as you say adoptive (10 years) and daughter (native) will soon be 2 years old. and for me there is no difference my child (by blood) or not mine - for me these are my children! I love them both equally! Yes, I’m trying to instill in my son a craving for simple work (I started from this myself, and still don’t shy from simple dirty work), my little daddy is still (not even two years old) - for me it’s a little sun, but I also try not to pamper much (though and it's hard). it’s not about who gave birth, but who raised and raised! Now I’ll voice my little request for GDP - maybe you should pay a little more attention to the younger generation ?! worth a little effort and finance for the future of Russia! but our children will grow on fertile soil sprouts of a strong Russia !!!

[michell]

Quote: PenZioner

. So it turns out that a year for a child, but I apologize to feed them with what?

Regarding the welfare of large families ...
I have before my eyes several Orthodox large families - from four to eight children in each. In Orthodoxy, abortion is equated to murder with all that it implies, respectively, giving birth, as much as possible. So, about welfare. The Orthodox have a principle - "God gives a child - he will give to a child" - none of my familiar families is begging, while the men are not oligarchs, mothers are sitting at home - try with six different-sized ones. One of the families is the clearest illustration of the above principle. Both young people, from the countryside, came to the city, the wedding in the mid-90s, both are not geniuses, not oligarchs and not businessmen. Initially we lived with relatives in a wreck house in our local "Shanghai", gave birth to their first daughter, bought the first car - a "penny" shape-shifter after an accident. Further - the second daughter - a simple foreign car, the third son - a passless foreign car and his own apartment - at work (!) In installments (!) Absolutely inexpensive (!) Bought, admission to the university for correspondence. The fourth daughter is a job at a prestigious company, the fifth is her own business, a bigger car (a seven-seat one - for such a family of norms) and unrestricted, the sixth daughter is another job, exchanging an apartment for a large brick house in a good location, buying a second car. I repeat - both are not geniuses and not modern businessmen, but something like that. The eldest now graduated from the first year of the university (paid), the second is going to enter. And the rest of the families do not live in poverty - all have normal housing, almost all have normal cars.
Though zaminusuyte - it's just life observation of people with whom I personally know about fifteen years.

[ibnvladimir]

Yes, change the psychology as much as you want, but it’s really necessary to raise this little one now so much that you need income from 35 tr. (in Togliatti without his hut or mortgage) and uphill. With an average salary of 12 tr Spin, highly moral you are our sir.

[datura23]

what prevents to do at the same time?

[although]

And nothing to add.

[Darkness]

These tearful demotivators deliver.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Darkness

These tearful demotivators deliver.

And you in response to the video abortion expose.

[Darkness]

Abortion videos should be shown in schools. Constantly.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Darkness

Abortion videos should be shown in schools. Constantly.

Together with

tearful demotivators

[Darkness]

Without religious background.

[ism_ek]

Quote: Makar

And nothing to add.

Regarding Orthodox values. Have you eaten meat or milk today? And today the Petrov post began. If you have sinned, go and choke. :(

What to grab at once for abortion? Start by observing posts. Read the prayers. Go to church. And the problem of abortion will be solved by itself.

[Darkness]

And in general, they tell us here from the screens that we have a purely Orthodox country, and in abortion in the first place. How so?
Someone is clearly lying)))

[alicante11]

You are confusing warm with soft. Fasting is "asceticism", well, cleansing the body, and abortion is murder.

[Pissarro]

start by not teaching people who fast and read prayers.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Makar

And nothing to add.

He ran away ... people shot at him ...
Falling paw in the loose snow,
The wolf firmly knew: there will be no salvation ...
And the beast is no worse than the MAN ...

And at this moment for hundreds of kilometers,
The death sentence was executed ...
The girl is young there somewhere
Already the fourth had an abortion ...
The kid was screaming !!! But no one listened to the scream ...
He called for help: “Mommy, STOP !!!
Give me a chance to be necessary to you !!!
Give me the opportunity to live !!! I’m alive !!! ”

And the wolf ran ... the dogs tore their throats ...
People shouted drunk in the forest ...
He was almost completely caught up ...
The Wolf threw up its face and wiped away a tear ...

The kid screamed, bursting into tears ...
How terrible is not to give birth to die!
And trying to hide from a piece of iron,
He dreamed to look at his mother.
That's just "mom" does not need this ...
It’s not FASHIONABLE, you see, giving birth ...
She spends her soul on stupidity ...
To kill their children "not in the bastard" ...

And the wolf fell without strength ... it was so necessary ...
He took away from the she-wolf BARBAR ...
She remained alone with the wolf cubs,
When he took the verdict ...
The dogs were tearing his body to shreds!
But only the soul of the wolf does not break !!!
Soul of his happy rushed to the sky !!!

FOR CHILDREN, THERE IS SENSE TO DIE !!!
And who, tell me, the beast really?
And why is this century disgusted ???
But simply HUMAN BEAST US ...
And the beast is not more terrible than the MAN !!!

[sergey32]

I agree, there is no worse animal than man. How can one reason about the expediency of killing our children?
Seventeen years ago, when the wife found out that the pregnant woman was the second child, she cried for a long time. We had no housing, no normal income. He told her we can handle it. Today, the girl passes the exam in chemistry, a gold medalist, our pride. We have four, it’s hard, sometimes it becomes unbearable, but children are what it is worth living for.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: sergey32

Today, the girl passes the exam in chemistry, a gold medalist, our pride.

Hello Sergey. The ex-wife also wanted to "get drunk" during the second pregnancy, as a result, the daughter is the most beloved.

[insafufa]

Quote: sergey32

I agree, there is no worse animal than man. How can one reason about the expediency of killing our children?
Seventeen years ago, when the wife found out that the pregnant woman was the second child, she cried for a long time. We had no housing, no normal income. He told her we can handle it. Today, the girl passes the exam in chemistry, a gold medalist, our pride. We have four, it’s hard, sometimes it becomes unbearable, but children are what it is worth living for.

Yes, this is familiar to me. Mom also cried at night from an unsettled life, also four of them grew.

[ism_ek]

Quote: Oberon812

Legislators suggestion:

[alicante11]

Well, you nafig, with your European values. God grant that they are "not for us" as long as possible.

[alicante11]

Well, you nafig, with your European values. God grant that they are "not for us" as long as possible.

[Kombrig]

It would be wild if a man gave a lecture on the dangers of smoking, gently puffing on a cigarette, an uncle with a huge belly told us how to do push-ups, a malicious alimony taught the values ​​of family life ... wildly or funny (from the mood), in this matter everyone decides for yourself how to act, whether they will accept the law or not, there will always be ways to circumvent it, because the severity of state laws has always been compensated by their non-implementation .... If you do not know what to do ... act according to the law.

[self-propelled]

Abortion. To give birth or not to give birth? Orthodoxy and national security of the Russian Federation

Well, what's the question? to give birth or not to give birth? - I am far from down in development, but I cannot understand - Russia groans because of the small number of births. so maybe it is worth supporting the birth rate with some preferences ?! and yet - young people do not want to start a family because "this is another expense item." so why doesn't the state support young families ?! you see, other young families will look and also join. I think a real program for young families. and if decent conditions are made in the north too, I will be torn myself (in spite of the years). those. we draw conclusions - if the state (i.e. those in power) show will, it is possible to establish both the social and production sectors. just to support such movements

[forester]

Quote: Oberon812

Legislators suggest: first deal with child mortality, adolescent alcoholism and drug abuse, road deaths, etc. Then - with emigration. But after that - to solve the problems of demography by banning abortion.

it would be nice for those who introduce such bills to try to feed the child for the child allowance that they have established

[wanderer_032]

Quote: forester

it would be nice for those who introduce such bills to try to feed the child for the child allowance that they have established

In..opu this is the so-called "child benefit", better salary human and it is not needed at all.
We will raise the children ourselves, then. Without any "benefits" and "mat.capitalov".

[Andrey Yuryevich]

let people live with dignity, and the question will disappear by itself ...

[Penzuck]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

let people live with dignity, and the question will disappear by itself ...

How is it worth living? There are chronic alcoholics who sleep with drinking companions, do not think about themselves, nor about the future of children, nor about abortions, especially. They give birth to weak children who either die in infancy or join the ranks of drug addicts, prostitutes, and criminals. And those who live "worthily" are ready to have an abortion and damage their health but not give birth. No money for condoms? And on the other hand, 500 oblique maternal - is that not a bonus? Now it is easier for them to buy a new iPhone than to think about the family.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Penzuck

There are chronic alcoholics

there is, there is ... and there are also normal young people who dream of family and children, and look at mortgages and queues in kindergartens, and ... who wants to dangle in rented apartments with a child, from where they can "evict" at any time ???

[datura23]

excuse for cowardice

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: datura23

excuse for cowardice

this is common sense.

[alicante11]

there is, there is ... and there are normal young people who dream of family and children,

Sorry, but in 90% of cases it’s in words. My first wife said so - first a career, an apartment, a car, and then a child. But after the second stage, I'm tired of waiting. As a result, in the second attempt, the child was conceived when they lived in the apartment, but before the birth they moved to their own. And now the wife often says that if God gave the children, then he will give the opportunity to support them. Of course, I am an atheist, but, in principle, I agree with her.

[datura23]

do you have many friends with many children who live well?

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: datura23

do you have many friends with many children who live well?

generally no such friends unfortunately. my aunt (by father) has 11 children, adults for a long time, but they lived in the village, their own big house, and a huge garden, of course, any cattle, there is an opportunity to survive and grow. and now take a city with a killed economy, with a lack of work ... as they say, feel the difference. to the village with a kandachka, also don’t jerk, even for a start, considerable money is needed ...

[alicante11]

What do you think "live with dignity"?
If in order to have the most necessary things - housing, a car, the ability to properly feed, dress and teach children - then this is one thing. And there are many such families.
But if you go to the best, in Turkey and buy clothes from boutiques and change the car twice a year - then you are to the West. They don’t really like children there, they love themselves there.

[bionik]

Many want to give birth, but they don’t have enough money. Therefore, they have an abortion. For example, the same housing issue.

[Penzuck]

Yes, you sho. My grandfather lived very poorly. But he has 9 children. And each of them solved the housing issue, and got hold of education. And there was enough money for everything, although not rich. + Two died in childhood about an illness. Total 11. But now it’s such a time, such a time ... Straight well, neither live nor die. Shame on you?

Quote: bionik

Many want to give birth, but not enough money. For example, the same housing issue.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Penzuck

Yes, you sho. My grandfather lived very poorly. But he has 9 children.

did your grandfather also rent a house? and when they lived in caves, there were no problems at all!

[Stanislas]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

and when they lived in caves, there were no problems at all!

Now they live not in caves, but problems exist. They want to live not for the future of children, the city, the country and the world, but for themselves. They treat sex as a safe drug, the responsibility for the use of which is artificially lowered with the help of contraceptives, abortion and liberal sex education. Hence, not only the demographic problems of fertility and family, but also a number of other problems: health, education, labor migration.

[Penzuck]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

did your grandfather also rent a house? and when they lived in caves, there were no problems at all!

In crowded but not mad. He lived in a village. But many want an apartment in the city, and it is many times more expensive. Why an apartment? because there are a lot of nishtyak important. Clubs, hairdresser shops. My native village is being actively built up, kids are running around in crowds. But those who went to Penza, or went to Moscow for money, did not think about children, but almost every year they went to the emirates with Sochi. Not the cavemen, but the homo civilis paganus, which is translated as the ordinary urban man.

[insafufa]

Quote: bionik

Many want to give birth, but they don’t have enough money. Therefore, they have an abortion. For example, the same housing issue.

My parents didn’t live richly and the forks weren’t and the car wasn’t. And father, to feed us, worked at two jobs, and mother could not leave us because they were small. They didn’t live, but people began to raise four children; one was buried, died in the army at execution. Their life was hard and difficult, they lived in a tiny house, despite this they raised four of us. There would be a desire for opportunities, but excuses like there are no conditions and opportunities are not accepted. With us egoism from the beginning we think what the state should do for us, and then what we can do for ourselves and our homeland. Over the past 20 years, a whole generation of consumer egoists has grown, the search for pleasure is also consumerism. How do we differ from animals in that a person can consciously choose his path and does not live by instinct.

[Penzioner]

And my grandfather had 11 children. And as you say, the same solved the housing problem, but someone by the age of 35, someone 60. All of my uncles and aunts have three children and not all of us have solved the housing problem. me the vaunted mortgages still pay and pay. We have the same two, four, and four children, and many of them already have this housing issue. Have they seen housing prices, or reset the price list? Just don’t talk about heaps of programs, because 90% of these programs don’t work, or you need to give a part of the money to make this or that program work. This is not a question

[ism_ek]

Quote: Penzuck

Yes, you sho. My grandfather lived very poorly. But he has 9 children. And each of them solved the housing issue, and got hold of education. And there was enough money for everything, although not rich. + Two died in childhood about an illness.

How did it end. Most died in World War II? Because the country did not have the means to properly train the army?
Do not learn 9's children to the level that the modern industrial revolution requires.

History has shown that if a woman wants to have an abortion, she will do it. It will be clandestine, without the possibility of becoming pregnant again.

Fertility should be increased by other methods. Prohibition of abortion is not an option

[Pissarro]

History shows that in 99 percent of cases a woman does not make this decision, but goes to the peasant from whom she flew. That either gives her money for an abortion or forbids him to do

[alicante11]

Most died in World War II? Because the country did not have the means to properly train the army?

But the French also had no money in WWI, that they are larger in percentage terms than all other participants lost? Or in WWII when the Germans merged in a month, too, was there a problem with the dough? Yes, if these grandfathers did not have 11 children each, the Germans would pass Russia as well as European countries.

[Penzuck]

Quote: ism_ek

How did it end. Most died in World War II?

NET.

Quote: ism_ek

Do not learn 9's children to the level that the modern industrial revolution requires.

But the workers, drivers, and others are no longer suitable for your revolution? Excavators? Tractor drivers? Seamstresses? Teachers? Merchants? etc. With housing, the issue is resolved - twice for you.

Quote: ism_ek

History has shown that if a woman wants to have an abortion, she will do it. It will be clandestine, without the possibility of becoming pregnant again.

Did hysteria show you cheto? And we can Schizophrenia? Here you are Russian and nafig die out with such an attitude, my mother wanted to abort, so Thank God my aunt got sick (God had mercy), and my grandmother decided to give birth to a spare. Count 11 (9) Mordvins and 3 (4) Russians. That's all "free" choice. And now we cry - Russians are being genocide everywhere.

[Slobber]

Well, neither live nor die

Live where? An apartment or a house where and for how much you can buy / rent? And die? You forget how much land in cemeteries now costs.

[a housewife]

Where? In Moscow, one thing. In Ryazan, another. There’s a third in the village. I’ll say for sure that you won’t go abroad from the village, but you won’t be left hungry and without housing.

[Slobber]

I live in Moscow. I cannot move to the village, if only because my salary is scanty, there is nothing to save, and in order to move to the village, money is needed to settle down. And in general, it's good to talk about the village like that, but the "village" is dying out from something.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: housewife

you won’t go from a village abroad, but you won’t be left hungry and without housing

Easy. And you will remain hungry and from the house to the street can also be thrown into the lungs (given the current taxes and so on).
Modern rural life in pink light is seen only by those who themselves have never lived in these conditions.

[Maks111]

Many want to give birth, but not enough money

Have they heard about condoms? Children have to do with it?

There are chronic alcoholics who sleep with drinking companions, think neither of themselves, nor of the future of children, nor of abortion, much less.

And now what to kill children? Let them be taken from the orphanage, orphanage is better than killing. In this case, you need to reduce the amount of alcohol per capita, and not kill your own children.

[Darkness]

We are expecting a second child. We live in Khrushchev, odnushka. What is wrong with us?

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Darkness

We are expecting a second child. We live in Khrushchev, odnushka. What is wrong with us?

not so with social programs in the state. and you happiness!

[Darkness]

Thank you)))

[insafufa]

Quote: Darkness

We are expecting a second child. We live in Khrushchev, odnushka. What is wrong with us?

My wife and I also started with odnushka in Khrushchev, and now dvushka is there
So there would be a desire for the opportunity to find mat capital helped.

[datura23]

I support ourselves in this situation, but we are happy and do not want to justify our own egoism by the fact that there is no money for a family

[oldav]

Add mothercapital and buy a kopeck piece.

[Darkness]

Already in the process.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Darkness

We are expecting a second child. We live in Khrushchev, odnushka. What is wrong with us?

I live in a studio with my wife and child. We are going through a year after the second. Mat.capital - 450t.r, surcharge to kopeck piece in Togliatti about the same. What is the problem?

[Penzuck]

I believe that the “unprotected layers” can spend money on condoms if they don't want children. Also a sin. But less than the murder of unborn children.
15 thousand for an abortion? I would have obliged 100 thousand to pay, and would give this money to those who want children.

[Oberon812]

A lesser sin, a greater sin ... Where, according to your classification, is the defiled life of a sick child of alcoholic parents? Above or below the "murder of unborn children"?

[datura23]

why do you consider life without affluence fraudulent?

[Oberon812]

You about the abundance of what? Of money? And I'm talking about the well-being of such children.

[Pissarro]

Your proposal, as in Sparta, no health, fly off a cliff?

[Penzuck]

Quote: Oberon812

A lesser sin, a greater sin ... Where, according to your classification, is the defiled life of a sick child of alcoholic parents? Above or below the "murder of unborn children"?

Those. Do you offer forced sterilization of degenerate alcoholics? They themselves do not think about abortion.

[gaura]

The drunks ran away to have abortions. They are already the norm. And those who want to enjoy, and then at the expense of the compulsory medical insurance, have an abortion, let them turn on the thought before they spread their legs another time.

[alicante11]

Where, according to your classification, is the defiled life of a sick child of alcoholic parents? Above or below the "murder of unborn children"?

Such must be sterilized by force. In general - an abortion came a second time - for sterilization. And the children are not to blame.

[Darkness]

What to do with rape, teenage stupidity, etc. ?? Also offers to give birth?

[oldav]

Give birth and leave to the state, pay her compensation for the refusal. There are always those who wish for a baby, I plan it myself next year, after I finish building the house.

[Darkness]

MDA? Those. do not care about the woman’s opinion?

[oldav]

The opinion of a woman is one, but the life of an individual is different. The child in the womb is also a man and it is not his fault that his mother does not want to. By your logic, you can get rid of newborns, you need to take into account the opinion of the mother ..

[Darkness]

From what moment, by biological indicators, can an embryo be considered a full-fledged person?

[Stanislas]

Quote: Darkness

From what moment, by biological indicators, can an embryo be considered a full-fledged person?

They become a full-fledged person not by biological, but by moral and cultural indicators. Some adults, physically healthy individuals on these indicators do not pull on "full-fledged people". In biology, a disease-causing virus turns out to be more complete than a dinosaur - these are extinct, but it exists.

[Darkness]

Those. Is the one-week fetus and newborn baby the same thing?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Darkness

From what moment, by biological indicators, can an embryo be considered a full-fledged person?

And when does the SOUL appear at the embryo? Who knows? And the price of error is your soul!

[Darkness]

I'm an atheist. I don’t believe in fairy tales.

[Stanislas]

Quote: Darkness

I'm an atheist. I don’t believe in fairy tales.

An atheist is someone who believes in the absence of God. To substantiate his belief, he often tries to rely on the data of science, but science has no such data at all, since science does not study the supernatural and cannot say anything about its existence (or absence). Therefore, atheists have to either believe in pseudo-scientific tales composed by their predecessors, or compose them themselves in the hope that others will believe in them. The primitivism of the "argumentation" of atheists is often associated with the fact that they are confident in their mental superiority over the opponent; a believer seems to them, by definition, an idiot. Hence their belligerent incompetence. This is a common type in society, although, of course, there are different atheists.

[Pissarro]

can a newborn be considered a full-fledged person? He has no brains, no stomach, no intestines of a full-fledged person. What is the difference between a newborn and a fetus? only under development. There is no difference in killing both

[Darkness]

?????
You have problems in school education.

[Pissarro]

You have problems in school education, buy a biology textbook, and discover a lot of new things.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: oldav

after I finish the house.

and this is normal.

[Penzioner]

there is one family. Mom is a drunk, dad is a narik. They breed like mice. Children are like children (in appearance). I mean, what can they take in one thing, they don’t care, they will give it not expensive (a liter or two).

[oldav]

They must be picked up by the guardianship service and transferred to those who wish. And about nariks, they will still give birth, paid abortions or free.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Darkness

What to do with rape teenage stupidity etc.?? Also offers to give birth?

voooot ... + ..

[datura23]

yes you have to give birth! otherwise, the mother is no better than her who raped, and adolescents that are not full-fledged people? just have to mature earlier

[Darkness]

How many children do you have?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Darkness

What to do with rape, teenage stupidity

Ek you compared! Rape with teenage stupidity (criminal acts with gaps in education)! Was teenage stupidity different in the 70s and 80s? The culture was different, you need to remove any trash promoting glamor from the screens (see Bl .... in)

[Penzuck]

And if after an abortion she can never give birth, do you propose to take into account the opinion of a woman (young and stupid, or in a state of affect)?

Quote: Darkness

What to do with rape, teenage stupidity, etc. ?? Also offers to give birth?

Quote: oldav

MDA? Those. do not care about the woman’s opinion?

A minor undershot? And then there will be a sterile doll. Not only one trouble ...

[Darkness]

Voooooo ..... Already under-women appeared)))) who said that she would remain sterile? And if so, you have to pay for your mistakes.

[alicante11]

who said that she will remain sterile? And if so, you have to pay for your mistakes.

Well, let it go and pay - it gives itself all in order to raise a child. More and more benefits than childless nonsense ... oh vixens.

[insafufa]

Quote: Darkness

What to do with rape, teenage stupidity, etc. ?? Also offers to give birth?

For rape during a medical examination, give pills for free to prevent pregnancy. I had to help the victim call the police and then run to testify where and when I came to the call for help.

[Pissarro]

you cannot kill a child for someone else's stupidity. What does he have to do with it?

[alicante11]

Rape can be once. This is a solvable question, even with money, to take the same loan, but you must answer for teenage stupidity, sir.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: Penzuck

I believe that the "unprotected layers" can spend money on condoms if they don't want children.

can stupidly sterilize if income does not allow to live humanly?

[Penzuck]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Quote: Penzuck
I believe that the "unprotected layers" can spend money on condoms if they don't want children.
can stupidly sterilize if income does not allow to live humanly?

ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT AGREE FOR THIS VIOLATES THE RIGHTS OF ALCOHOLS. Maybe they will give up plump, realize their mistake and be cured? Can they be better treated? Even if forcibly?

[Kombrig]

Quote: Penzuck

ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT AGREE FOR THIS VIOLATES THE RIGHTS OF ALCOHOLS. Maybe they will throw a plump, realize their mistake and heal

.... look around, damn it, something is wrong with the country, let's change something, Herax and the new revolution ..)))))))

[a housewife]

It’s better to violate the rights of drunks than unborn children who will be injured by any means. And, besides, treating by force - will this not violate the rights of drunks?

[a housewife]

What, sorry, is a sin in a condom?

[oldav]

To prohibit abortions by nulliparous, stop killing your people. Russia comes first in abortion ,, a disgrace! The mother of the child does not want, let him leave it to the state, to pay her compensation so as not to blather. Today it is not possible to adopt a baby because they are not enough.

[Oberon812]

Why immediately baby? Why not a three or five year old? Or even a 13-year-old? There are a lot of them in orphanages, only give something to all babies.

[oldav]

Understand the problem! They try to adopt infants, and adults are taken under guardianship. These are different categories.

[Oberon812]

Do not distort. You can adopt a 10-year-old, and take a three-year-old under guardianship. How did this affect the number of children in orphanages, to which all do not really care?

[oldav]

The number of children in orphanages is sharply reduced. Near my house they closed recently and converted into a kindergarten. Stop listening to the liberals that they seem to be crowded, this is not the case for a long time.

[Oberon812]

Where did I say they are "crowded"? There is no overflow, but the language cannot be called empty either. Official statistics, Rosstat: http://www.gks.ru/free_doc/new_site/population/obraz/i-obr2.htm

>> Near my house was recently closed and converted into a kindergarten.
Since the collapse of the Soviet Union, the number of orphanages has tripled. Now the situation is improving, that's great. But “it’s better” is not “good” yet.

>> Stop listening to liberals
I have no habit of taking at face value information obtained from unverified sources. There are official statistics agencies, everything else in our age of informational garbage often has a price no more than an obscene painting. Therefore, by the way, it is very funny to listen to people who claim that the number of the same abortions has increased, against the background of a clear decrease: http://www.fedstat.ru/indicator/data.do?id=41696&referrerType=0&referrerId=94692
1

[oldav]

I listened to Astakhov’s interview, he said that in some orphanages for one child there are 3-4 staff members, they aren’t closed because a hundred people don’t want to fire them. In Chechnya and Ingushetia, not a single orphanage at all, for them it is a shame. Why am I talking specifically about babies? because the topic is about abortion. A woman first gives birth to a baby and not a 13 year old teenager. The demand for babies is great and they are immediately dismantled. That is, they get to where they are waiting and want.

[datura23]

and how many 10 children did you adopt?

[a housewife]

Both of them can be adopted and taken under guardianship, these are not different categories of children, these are legal different categories.

[datura23]

because I want to educate, not re-educate

[Maks111]

To prohibit abortions by nulliparous, stop killing your people. Russia comes first in abortion ,, a disgrace! The mother of the child does not want, let him leave it to the state, to pay her compensation so as not to blather. Today it is not possible to adopt a baby because they are not enough.

I completely agree. otherwise they justify their desire to live for themselves so that children can’t be fed. Of course, if you want an apartment in the center of Moscow and want your child to become a governor (no less), then no money will be enough. Nobody wants his son to become a welder or an electrician and live not in the center of Moscow in an 5-room apartment, but somewhere far away from Moscow. I have 2 great-grandmothers after the 5 war gave birth to nothing and gave me one more, and two orphanages total 7 people and no one complained about life and no one became an alcoholic or a felon and no one fluffed from hunger. Just ambitions were less. You say that the time was different before, but now I know large families in one 8 of children and parents are not businessmen and not ministers and people are decent and drunk and hungry under the fence no one is lying around. So this is a matter of one’s own desire, and the rest are justified excuses.

[oldav]

All right! I have several friends of 35-40 year old aunts who have never given birth but have only scribbled abortions. They were waiting for the prince on a white horse and great love. Now they can not give birth due to spoiled health, they are applied to alcohol from depression.

[Darkness]

Glad for them. Stupidity is a mortal sin.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Darkness

Glad for them. Stupidity is a mortal sin.

Now this nonsense is cultivated purposefully, through the "culture" of the mass media. In movies, music, talk shows.

[Bijo]

Quote: oldav

All right! I have several friends of 35-40 year old aunts who have never given birth but have only scribbled abortions. They were waiting for the prince on a white horse and great love. Now they can not give birth due to spoiled health, they are applied to alcohol from depression.

Moreover, an abortion costs somewhere around 1500 rub, and if there is no health 300 000 rub eco and then it's not a fact that something will work out. Where's the justice? For the murder of a child 1500r and all things. The women are greedy now, put 1.5 million rubles for an abortion. may give birth.

[insafufa]

Quote: oldav

To prohibit abortions by nulliparous, stop killing your people. Russia comes first in abortion ,, a disgrace! The mother of the child does not want, let him leave it to the state, to pay her compensation so as not to blather. Today it is not possible to adopt a baby because they are not enough.

Well, well, there are just no problems to adopt, but people have been waiting for years to find a girl of Slavic appearance. Because everyone needs a blonde with blue eyes. We have a girl mestiska therefore there was no one who wanted to offer us after half a year. As the case turned up.

[oldav]

You can still find those. This confirms that for a long time the children of the parents are not looking, they take it apart right away.

[Denis]

What does all this mean?

Means Duma verbal masturbation
Simulation of violent work

eliminate the entire free system of compulsory medical insurance - i.e. treat people for money only

Here they are with joy

E.B. Mizulina generally calls a woman’s desire to have an abortion nothing more than a “whim”!

Here is the existence of such a law-maker, living on a considerable freebie and her own well-groomed army of cosmetologists who forgot her face when they put her outside the MKAD, it must be considered harmful. Does she know how many people get below the living wage?
The chatter, the same as with the sterilization of domestic animals. It is necessary to sterilize other parasitic animals, such officials and deputies

[Darkness]

And how many children does Mizulina have? Where did he study, work?

[Denis]

Quote: Darkness

And how many children does Mizulina have? Where did he study, work?

She will ask the housekeeper, governess and others and will answer

[Uncle Joe]

Quote: Darkness

And how many children does Mizulina have? Where did he study, work?

Has two adult children [89] [90].

The son, Nikolai Mizulin, studied at MGIMO, abroad - at Berne and Oxford universities. Now lives and works as a lawyer (according to some sources - a co-owner of a law firm [92]) in the capital of Belgium Brussels, is a partner of the law firm Mayer Brown (Meyer Brown promotes marital equality and sponsors LGBT events; Meyer Brown LGBT initiatives - http://www.mayerbrown.com/aboutus/diversity/initiatives/lgbt-initiatives/). Two grandchildren Mizulina live in Brussels [22] [93]. Married to a Spanish citizen Patricia Gonzalez Antón-Pacheco, daughter of a famous Spanish writer.

Daughter Catherine also lives separately from her mother, and she has no children [93]. Mizulina’s daughter heads the Moscow Legal Capital Initiative Fund Legal Capital, which is engaged in financial intermediation, publishing and advertising [22]. According to press reports, the fund is owned by Elena Mizulina [94].

[Darkness]

By the way, are there any women in the comments? It is their opinion that is interesting.

[dmb]

In, in. We, as a rule, have the largest specialists on the discussed problem, men. Let us leave the solution to the problem for women (Mizulin, for obvious reasons, should not be reckoned among them). And our business is to provide women with the opportunity to give birth more and do not worry about the fate of children. That's just for this you need to change the current capitalist reality, along with its guides. A lot of children from Potanin and Zheleznyak will not solve the demographic problem.

[Anita]

There can be no unequivocal opinion on this matter. The line is so thin that a step to the right, a step to the left, can turn everything upside down. Personally, I am against abortion, but prohibiting them is a lot of stupidity.

[Aventurinka]

Is.
It’s hard to say for sure (we like to go to extremes).
As an option (my personal point of view) - exclude abortion without medical evidence from the compulsory medical insurance, make a decent fee, but include voluntary and mandatory (for alcoholics and drug addicts) sterilization.
Do not want to give birth, but you want *** - bandage the pipes, to e *** m and do not worry. And there will be no reason for abortion and there is no harm to health. Do not want to be sterilized - give birth. For you have been warned.
But even many women may not agree with my opinion. Fenimism, such feminism.

[Aventurinka]

Ah, one more thing.
To prohibit abortion, of course I really want to. All sorts of human feelings like pity, etc. But what will later tell you a baby (hundreds of thousands of children), who, due to this ban, will be abandoned by the woman who gave birth to him, will live for 18 years in terrible conditions in an orphanage, with virtually no chance of a family and a normal future?
I, as a mother, are against abortion. But, if you put yourself in the place of an abandoned baby, there is doubt that she would prefer such a life to relatively quick death.

[Pissarro]

show me the kid who would like to be killed? And if you want to die, take it and die, it will be your decision. When aborting, they kill without asking his desire

[Aventurinka]

Quote: Pissarro

abortion kill without asking his desire

They also give birth without asking.
All children go through the thought "And I did not ask me to give birth" in response to the parent's words - "you must".

[Mother Theresa]

And why should taxpayers pay for abortion? After all, this money is taken from other articles of expenditure, the author does not understand this. There is also the truth about smokers, why others should pay for your weaknesses.

[Darkness]

Why not? For the construction of religious buildings and holidays, then it is possible and necessary, but for abortions no way. So what?
Abortion is a woman's personal desire. Or again, women will be equated to the second grade, like "your business is to cook borscht and have children"?

[datura23]

What religious buildings and holidays did you have to pay for?

[insafufa]

I don’t know what about the churches in our mosque, we took off for about 10 years so the administration than helped to help so did not interfere simply

[Darkness]

For example, Vladimir is going to allocate 1 billion rubles to celebrate the baptism of Rus. Who is the sponsor?

[oldav]

Churches and mosques are built on the donations of citizens and not the state, and this is their own business. The temple carries only kindness and enlightenment. You atheists and God-seekers do not understand this. Send your wives to abortion like a bread store.

[Darkness]

Stop lying already.

[saag]

Quote: oldav

The temple carries only kindness and enlightenment.

Probably for the sake of enlightenment, the teaching of astronomy was canceled at school?

[Pissarro]

Did the church cancel it? NVP also canceled, too, the priests are to blame?

[Boris55]

Quote: oldav

The temple carries only kindness and enlightenment. You atheists and God-seekers do not understand this.

I must say right away - there is God and I believe Him. The problem is that there is no God in the church.
How did the church fight science and burn people for bonfires for this - no need to tell?

[oldav]

The Orthodox Church did nothing of the kind.

[Darkness]

Again not true.

[a housewife]

Do you remember the baptism of the Indians! What does the Inquisition and God have to do with it? They there in Europe generally hid the Bible from the people for centuries, because they themselves did not do anything on it, although all the time they referred. And now it’s the same: Gay people in their churches, and they say that God approves of it. So is God in their churches? And this does not mean that there is no God. They simply do not have God.

[Darkness]

Undoubtedly, in Russia the Bible was in every house and everyone could read.

[a housewife]

It is very interesting with Russia. On the one hand, in ancient times we had much more literate people than in Europe. On the other hand, there was practically nothing to read except spiritual books, there were still chronicles, merchant records and, as Novgorod birch barks prove, household records. In every house, of course, there were no books - it was expensive. Therefore, not all were literate. But princes, merchants, clergy are obligatory. And in Europe even the lowest clergy were not at all literate or barely able to read. And the Bible is in Latin. It could be read again by those who specially taught Latin - the higher clergy and scientists. In Russia, there was an ICON. Far from everyone could be an icon painter. And it was not a matter of talent. Even copying an icon could only be done with a blessing, and they studied this longer than painters in the West. Because the icon is a pictorial presentation of the Bible. The canons did not come from the ceiling. On the icon, every stroke and every color has both symbolic and narrative meaning. Hence, for example, there are so many versions of the icon of the Mother of God. From childhood, parents told children about what is depicted there and why. It was impossible to get confused. Unfortunately, with these retellings, the people turned on fantasy. Therefore, so many Orthodox rules "from grandmothers", the church does not support these rules, but does not particularly fight, unless this is superstition, because all these folk additions are always aimed at good. in fairy tales - Good must win.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: housewife

With Russia it is very interesting.

Yeah. Very interesting.

[a housewife]

And what? The pagans killed their children, killed the Orthodox, and then burned themselves. And where does God and literacy regarding the Bible? And even later, the schismatics burned themselves. Is this all, of course, God is to blame? And not the devil? And nowadays in Ukraine white brothers - remember? - how many people, children, mostly burned themselves! Several thousand! And what is happening in Ukraine now is Turchin sectarian, but pagans again are not your brothers ?, some then the rune-worshipers are generally a madhouse! They don’t even worship the gods, but the runes, that is, the letters! And most importantly, kill m ..... her! Kill the Christians! Destroy their churches! Their self-proclaimed patriarch asked the Americans for weapons - it’s not a sin to kill !! Are you one of those?

[wanderer_032]

Quote: housewife

And what?

And then. That Christianity in Russia was "planted" with fire and sword. That's what.
Those who did not want to voluntarily go through the baptismal ceremony were brutally killed for this. That is what.

And the Byzantine emperors and the Byzantine nobility stood behind the "planting" of Christianity in Russia. To put it simply, the geeks (in the literal sense of the word) who stupidly pro .. shit about their state and realizing that in the near future they will end, they decided to "prepare the ground" for their "expansion over the hill" (Does it look like anything?).
To do this, they chose Russia and began to do all sorts of dirty tricks. And one of these dirty tricks was the destruction of the ancient Slavic (Vedic) culture in Russia and its replacement with Christianity. Because the ancient Vedic culture gave people a higher consciousness, both individual and social.
All that we are told about the life of our ancestors in ancient Slavic times
(namely, the fact that they were all unwashed and uneducated go .. from) - complete nonsense.
All the troubles in Russia just started from the time when the Russian princes began to "promote to the masses" an alien culture that came from Byzantium.
All that was inherited from their ancestors was simply destroyed, and more than one century. And to this day they are trying to destroy, little has been preserved so that the Russian people never remember who their ancestors really were and where all the Slavs originate from. And people resisted this, and very fiercely.
They did not want to accept this alien culture and for that they simply exterminated them (just like today they exterminate the Russians in Ukraine, only because they are Russians).

Why was this needed?
But then, that with the mass introduction into the consciousness of Russians, a new religion is easier to manage. Since the previous culture (culture, not religion - a significant difference) which was in the minds of the population of Ancient Russia, did not give Byzantine degenerates such an opportunity.
Because in this culture it was completely denied that man is a slave. In every sense denied. And a certain group of people from Byzantium did not like this very much.

[Russian]

EVERYTHING is correct. Yandex. "Slavic pagan calendar", "Blow of the Jewish gods". GLORY TO KIND.

[Stanislas]

Quote: Darkness

this is a woman’s personal desire. Or again we equate women to the second grade

Are you Ellochka the cannibal ?! Nick from her dictionary. Women were not second grade, but girls with age and upbringing shared and continue to be divided into women and sluts. It’s just about not equating the first to second grade.

[Penzuck]

Quote: Darkness

Abortion is a woman’s personal desire.

1. Was so free. at first I wanted to give birth, for this I slept, was like 9 months and gave birth - this is a choice.
2. there was a second free woman, at first she wanted to give birth, slept, and then decided why? - abortion, harm to health. - like a choice, but really? pregnant women are generally inadequate.
3. there was a third who did not want to give birth, but slept with someone without getting in, did not swell at the right time, etc., and then decided not to give birth. Hyibrid paragraph 1 and 2.
4. I didn’t want, I didn’t sleep - choice.
5. didn't want to use a condom. - a choice.

[Bijo]

Quote: Darkness

Why not? For the construction of religious buildings and holidays, then it is possible and necessary, but for abortions no way. So what?
Abortion is a woman's personal desire. Or again, women will be equated to the second grade, like "your business is to cook borscht and have children"?

How disgusting you are! the first time I put it in VO minus exactly for you, before that I promised not to minus anyone. You can immediately see the pagan Satanist.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Bijo

You can immediately see the pagan Satanist.

As if I consider myself more a pagan, but not a Satanist. Nevertheless, categorically against abortion! A person must first be.

[a housewife]

The funny thing is that such a pagan is more Christian than many so-called ones. Christ said - whoever is not against us is with us. Everything is right - the most important thing is that you have to be a man!

[Pissarro]

In what place did Christ say such nonsense?

[a housewife]

Quote: Pissarro

In what place did Christ say such nonsense?

Did Christ say bullshit? Hmm ...
Gospel of Mark 9.40. "For he who is not against you is for you" Said to the apostles.

[Pissarro]

“He who is not with me is against me; and whoever does not gather with me scatters ”Matthew 12:30. The apostles are also told

[Darkness]

I will suffer a lot because of your minus.

[Alex66]

Give men the opportunity to earn and support a family, then women will be able to deal with children. And now we have to work both and this year all the money goes to the communal apartment, clothes and food.

[Darkness]

Good to juggle. If you wish, if not your hands are in place, you can always make money. Only "effective managers" whine constantly.

[Astartes]

How many hours a day do you work, and how much are you raising children?

[Darkness]

Thirteen hours, but what?

[datura23]

excuses such excuses, "give a man" a man does not ask, he goes and does, but a boy can ask ... from his mother ... a title

[RiverVV]

I read the article and did not understand what was wrong with the proposed law. And, for that matter, what does the expert of the National Public Committee for Combating Corruption have to do with it? This is the author, yeah. What side is corruption related to abortion?

Honestly, the problem itself is obscure to me. None of the women pregnant from me had an abortion. Four children, all girls ... Pity me somebody!

[Darkness]

And you, when you close your eyes, it becomes dark everywhere?

[BOLSHEVIK]

Quote: RiverVV

Four children, all girls ... Pity me somebody!

one word MARKER

[Stanislas]

Quote: RiverVV

What side is corruption related to abortion?

Abortion lobbyists contribute not only to the State Duma, so that the law, if passed, would have a high corruption component, which means it would leave everything as it is, only half the price, but also to various public and non-profit organizations (especially with foreign funding and working on "gray" schemes), which will torpedo this legislative initiative.

[RiverVV]

Not cut ... What does the high corruption component mean? Is she still against abortion, or against bribes?

[Stanislas]

Quote: RiverVV

What does the high corruption component mean?

This means that the law leaves much to the discretion of the official, and his discretion is most often corrected by me.

[gramatey]

Be satisfied! In our daughters, there is an equal share of hereditary material from father and mother. But in sons - in fact there is always more of a mother than a father. Comparison of X and Y chromosomes .

[bionik]

Quote: Penzuck

Yes, you sho. Shame on you?

Quote: bionik

Many want to give birth, but not enough money. For example, the same housing issue.

I don’t. I have two, 4 and 7.

[Penzuck]

Quote: bionik

I don’t. I have two, 4 and 7.

Yes, good to hang noodles on the ears ... You can't even get into the "answer" button .
But seriously - "it will not be enough" (c).

[bionik]

Are you responsible for the bazaar?

[Boris55]

"Devastation begins in the heads"

In all the media (books, movies, TV, etc.), we hear from early childhood that there is love. Having grown up a little, we learn that you can’t command your heart, that love is not eternal .. The media, we are given the usual attraction (lust) as love, but you cannot build a strong family for lust. The Western model of behavior imposed on us through the media leads to the destruction of the human race. Look at the USA or Europe - the white man is dying ...

Prohibitions cannot solve the problem - first thought, then action. How the media (books, movies, TV, etc.) will shape our thoughts - so will our actions.

[datura23]

why does the stereotype that prohibitions cannot solve the problem mean that prohibition is not necessary?

[Boris55]

Quote: datura23

why does the stereotype that prohibitions cannot solve the problem mean that prohibition is not necessary?

If we assume that a person is a brainless brute, then - yes, the prohibitions will work, and it is necessary to negotiate with a reasonable person. he is intelligent and quite capable of getting around all your inhibitions and besides, "the forbidden fruit is always sweet."

Agree that the attitude towards the life of "lovers" is somewhat different from the attitude of people creating a family.
Some of the "lovers" find out about it only in the registry office, and some do not even reach it ...

ps
The forceful way to solve the problem is the latest of all the available ways to control humanity. It is both fast and transient. There is plenty of information on the "six priorities of managing humanity" in the internet.

[Darkness]

Uncle said normally. Something I don’t recognize a movie ...

[Boris55]

Quote: Darkness

Uncle said normally. Something I don’t recognize a movie ...

Siberian rescued (1998)

"Proclaim the right to dishonor, and everyone will run after you" F.M. Dostoevsky.

I would not draw your attention to the words of the peasant, but to the action of his ex-wife. HONOR - the internal moral dignity of a person, valor, honesty, nobleness of the soul and a clear conscience. Having lost this - we get the most vile animal on Earth.

[Darkness]

The concept of honor changes over time. And not always in a bad way.

[oldav]

Liberal gentlemen! Why, when you give us examples of young European democracies, about how everything is great and developed with them, you do not mention the fact that abortion is generally prohibited in one of them, they can be done there only on medical grounds? I'm talking about Poland. Why, when we are trying to somehow regulate it, so immediately begins "dictatorship", violation of rights and freedoms, etc.?

[Engineer]

Bullshit initiative! They will do it underground, at the risk of a woman’s life, they will buy medicines that are not certified for interruption in the early stages. The law cannot force a woman to give birth. Well, she’ll give birth and what, she’ll hand over to the shelter? Is the state so it is good to take care of shelters here? And who is having an abortion? Obviously not a woman from a prosperous family, which means she will not have money for a legal abortion. For a woman to give birth, it is necessary to create favorable social conditions. Do this, gentlemen of the gangs ... deputies! And then you live in your little world in isolation from the people and think only about profit.

[oldav]

Or maybe they will wear something before this .. do. Knowing what lies ahead if not to be protected.

[Boris55]

Quote: oldav

Or maybe they will wear something before this .. do. Knowing what lies ahead if not to be protected.

What happens then ... Have you heard anything about telegraphy?
You are aware that the number of eggs in a woman is laid from birth and their further increase does not occur. You are aware that addictions affect the eggs of a non-drinker in different ways, and only once having tasted alcohol, a sick person is born, and a completely healthy baby can be born in a bulldog - depending on which egg was fertilized. All men who have contact with a woman, or even a woman who has mentally desired another, leave their genetic mark in the eggs of the woman. That is why two white people can have a black baby .... No need to encourage fornication then many questions will not arise.

[Begemot]

Therefore, we can say that this is not just nonsense

We have almost all legislation, with the exception of traffic rules and, in part, the Criminal Code, complete nonsense, but as one figure said: "People hawala!"
It’s time to take a closer look at this obese party in the State Duma, otherwise the person has not yet been born, but has already violated several laws. As for Mizulina, her gender initiative simply infuriated me at the time, if the law passed, I would go to the partisans.

[Metallurgist]

Hmm, the question is complicated. give birth or not give birth.
Everyone decides it for himself and individually. True, there are "girlfriends", friends, and so on and so forth ...
I’ll try to write my attitude to this topic.
NEGATIVE.
With the ban, the state will achieve nothing but an increase in "clandestine", so-called "criminal" abortions. Hence all the other delights: mother's death, infant mortality. The number of refuseniks will increase. Do not pour "patriotic" slogans about the happiness of motherhood into my ears and so on. Yes, there is happiness of motherhood, but only when it is conscious. And to force a person to "be happy" is simply impossible.
Consider the question further. Abortion alone is bad. It is very likely that a second pregnancy may not occur.
And now let's look at the other side, about which commentators mainly spoke here.
1. Social. So the baby was born. Suppose everyone is happy. We go to the store and what do we see there? We see prices there: 40 rubles (or even higher) for a jar of food from 3-6 months. But there are a lot of such jars. Diapers. See for yourself prices or suggest? Oh yes, we grew up in diapers. Baby detergent - to wash them, and the diapers themselves also have a cost. Stroller And they need at least two: the hospital, in which the child is still very small and the second, the so-called walking. Even further: crib. Clothes from which the child grows almost instantly.
Say that all this is not so expensive? Yes, it may not be so expensive, but the natural desire of parents to give their child the best wins. For a young family, and especially if not in Moscow, or another large city - this is a fairly large amount. Did you remember about grandmothers? Do they have millions in each in a small egg?
Do you know that almost 80% of newborns suffer from allergies anyway? Do not believe me - go to the children's clinic on the day when they take babies. Emphasize much of the new. And in the suburbs, an analysis of the first level of allergies: 1500 rubles. And then more, plus medicine.
The child grows, then kindergarten begins and ... and extortions. They will now give me a lot of examples, saying that extortion is a figment of my sick imagination, let it be. On your conscience. No, there are kindergartens where there are no levies, or they are minimal. But ... repairs, subbotniks, come and help - these are all from this series. And in large cities, parents work from 9 to 18, and from the kindergarten "take it to 17". There are kindergartens that are busy with children until 20:00. Low bow to these people, but they are few. And with the gardens, too, not everything is so simple, I mean their location. You simply will not get to many kindergartens, even if you live in the house opposite.
Go through the chain of command - tell me. Well go, your mother, go. And who will work for me? And the salary is not paid for the fact that you are listed. Talking to the authorities, even if you came there - bureaucracy and officials are a separate topic. In the end, you just spit on all this and "solve" the issue the way you are used to.
Oh yes, I forgot one more thing. They come (at least as declared) home from the guardianship authorities to watch: are the rights of the newborn violated? Does he have everything? But for some reason, they don’t come to families where there are real problems and need help.
After the kindergarten - school. I won’t write much about her. You yourself know everything.

[Metallurgist]

2. Public. And no one wondered, for example, tomorrow every family has three or four children. WHERE to study them? I do not mean schools and kindergartens. Although there at school, now almost everything is for money. To get a good education for free now is from the realm of fantasy. So WHERE to study? Where, your mother, vocational schools, technical schools? Where is the training of skilled workers? But she is gone. Do you think that all children will go to college? Naive! Do you have money? Maybe someone will go for free, and the rest?
And where should they go? Replenish the army of powerless Gaster? And they want to eat. Where are the new businesses and new jobs? The plans of the government? Well, let those who work in these plans remain there in the plans. There is no work, no salary, no children - in my opinion a direct dependence.
It's not enough to give birth, you need to grow and educate. In urban conditions, it's hard. I’m not saying that it’s too heavy, but hard. And it is not necessary to grow a "stomach" consuming food and parasitizing on the parents' neck, but to raise a CITIZEN. And here it is not only about the family, but about the state.
3. Political. It follows from the first two. The policy of the government and the president. which is aimed at internal problems more and more reminds me of two generals from Saltykov-Shchedrin's fairy tale "How a man fed two generals." The government and the state for some reason believe that without investing money in preschool, school and vocational education, somewhere "under the bush" lie turners, locksmiths, repairmen, installers, electricians. The education system itself is aimed at the fact that children can only read and write a little. And count to ten. It's easier to manage a blunt herd than people with a tower. And why did the state worry about fertility without solving other problems? What will it, the state, do with a huge mass of human potential? And they will give birth too.
In a word, Mizulina's initiative: hiding behind a "beautiful" wording to push through a law harmful to the Russian Federation.
Minus.
PS I have three children, if that.
PPS My opinion is final: abortion cannot be prohibited. Better a woman get qualified medical care than lose her last health.
PPPS The state has beautifully “appointed” those to blame for the demographic crisis, placing another burden on the poorest segments of the population. At the same time, it, the state, is completely unprepared to solve the pressing problems of those who, in its opinion, should increase and improve demography.
Now for sure, minus.

[oldav]

200-250 million people can freely live on the territory of the Russian Federation, we now have 146, so there is work for everyone who wants to.

[Metallurgist]

Do you understand what I wrote about?
Or, like the vast majority of the site, blurted out without thinking?

[oldav]

Of course he blurted out, no one reads such texts. You just don’t have to worry, the main thing is how you will raise your children, and then they will push their own way. There will still be no sharp increase in chiliness. My little son went to Ptu, so there is a shortage, no one goes, although then guaranteed employment.

[Metallurgist]

Are you from Novosib?
A beautiful city, there is work ...
WHERE will they make their way? Or do you think that if you didn’t "go to the zone," you made your way?
Well, if there is a guaranteed job after graduating from the same vocational school, I am sincerely glad. But something just tells me what for those pennies that we like to pay at the enterprises. he won't work there for a long time. Or he will go into private business, if he has hands, or "will go to the people" ...
In Soviet times, they went to the North for a long ruble, but now? Are we all going to Nerezinovaya? To St. Petersburg? To Ekat? And what to do with theirs?
Or, as you wrote there, 200 million? Or forward to the construction of the East? So only recently there was a scandal with non-payment of salaries, but I want to eat every day and several times.
Now, if you were planning a family, if a child was conceived by mutual consent - then give birth as much as you like. And three and five and seven. Those. you have an understanding of how to raise children, where they will then go to study, work. Where will they live ...
But to deprive a woman of the right to have an abortion, condemning both herself and her unborn child to poverty - I have no right. Yes, and you too. And even more so mislines with bears.
Want to fix demographics? Create jobs, infrastructure, decent pay. And women will give birth in two or more, and there will be no problems.

[oldav]

Yes, I'm from N-ska. Work was good before, now it's worse. My son is studying at a vocational school with guaranteed employment at a factory. The salary there is the national average for a beginner is not bad. So no one goes to this school because everyone wants to study law, and indeed there are very few of that generation (90s). And you say no where to study. In Soviet times, I looked at the statistics of abortion was 2 times more, with all that apparent prosperity. Now there are many opportunities for development and it is not necessary to say that everyone lives poorly, look at the number of cars in your city. Our entire city is under construction, you can buy an apartment for 700 thousand, so there are no problems with housing either. I see no reason to panic and say that everything is bad.
Abortion is, whatever one may say, murder, and the state must fight this, leaving what is is impossible.

[Metallurgist]

I am not saying that everything is bad, in the end, everything is solved by problems with children. I am talking about the fact that before declaring abortion outlawed, the state should concern itself with the question of what will happen a little further.
I live in the suburbs. And our job is bad, much worse than in the USSR. There are constant redundancies at enterprises. Almost everyone works at Nerizinova. Plus visitors. The average salary is 40-50 tr. And you can still live on this money. But I am constantly on business trips in the regions, and now everything is much worse there. They adapt there too, but it is precisely "they adapt".
If you, as a person, have the strength to fight, you are lucky. But as much as I personally saw the broken ones, which the next rise in price just kills - not to count. Parents concerned with the survival of themselves and their children cannot just physically devote a lot of time to them. That's the bad thing. And it’s not the fault of the parents that there is one plant in the city, for example, and there is a salary of 20 tr. of which a quarter goes to a communal apartment. And the children are growing. That is what it is about.
I do not call for abortions, God forbid. I just think that getting quality medicine, including abortion, is an inalienable right to receive medical services in general.
Don't want to be the first in the world in abortion? - work with children, educate. And the state here should play not the last role, and not self-deny, as happened in the last decade.
Want to be an Olympic Champion - train. So here - if you want a healthy nation with strong moral principles - work with children.
And to prohibit abortion - that’s why we have nothing more than additional hatred of the state (hatred of a government official is automatically projected onto the state) and we will not achieve increased mortality.
So you decide - either we build everything for a person, or we turn him into cattle, which is controlled by a mass of laws. Which does not think. Not giving anything in return, and only demanding, demanding, demanding.

[oldav]

I do not urge to ban. My opinion is that abortion should be limited to those who have not given birth or those who have less than two children. If a girl gives birth and refuses to somehow stimulate her from refusal or to buy her child from her. Mizulina simply offers to structure and tidy it up somehow. In the state clinic, as she suggests, a woman will have a conversation at least.
What you described about MO is so bad for me, for example, there are less salaries and I have enough with three children. The state gave us the capital and allowance for the third child, the elders study for free and attend sections, and there is practically no problem in kindergarten.
In Poland, for example, unemployment is getting much worse, but nonetheless abortion is prohibited there (except for medical indications).

[Metallurgist]

Mizulina just proposes to ban. Legislatively. And leave a few reservations when (it’s really scary, the child died in the womb) medical intervention is simply necessary.
Now for abortion in those who have not given birth and in those who have less than two children.
I believe that I will not open America if I say that the decree throws a woman very socially back. Employment problems. It's not a joke. Young girls are willingly taken only to brothels. In fact, it is difficult to find a job with a white salary if you have no connections. Especially for girls. And whoever says anything to me here, about the "social responsibility of business" - it remains only words, with extremely rare exceptions. Young means you will get married, give birth ... And we have capitalism, if anyone has forgotten, where profit is at the forefront, and not people.
You will be able to condemn a girl who had an abortion, realizing all its consequences, if she was faced with a choice: a career, or a decree, a child and that's it. Then you won't find a job. I cannot judge her. I have no moral right. About the fact that "the husband must earn" - I do not want to swear. We have raised a generation of stomachs and gigolos who cannot, do not want and do not know how to provide for themselves. The overwhelming majority of the so-called "men" are little boys who believe that their mother first solves their problems, and then their wife. Unisex. Maybe somewhere else - but in Moscow time there is already a very overwhelming number of gigolos, plus constant advertising about the "beautiful life" of gum.
We do not have free sections. In any school, kindergarten - requisitions (explicit or hidden). The state does not take any part and no help in raising children.
Seeing all this, the woman realizes that she simply can not stand it and goes on an abortion. Is sad And how many single mothers do we have?
This is it.
PS When my wife was pregnant with her second child, the mother capital was introduced. We, as a family, were deeply concerned about state aid, we are used to relying only on ourselves. So, my wife said that the gynecologist with whom she was seen cried because many mothers took directions for an abortion, since the child who was born did not fall under the "mother capital".
When the spouse came and said that she was pregnant with her third child, we did not even discuss the issue of abortion. But our situation is different and the upbringing is different. But I repeat once again: I can’t condemn a girl who has an abortion just because she herself cannot raise a worthy citizen. What does she understand that if she gives birth, then that’s all, her career has gone to zero.
And the mizulins take on the role of a judge, even somewhere in the Lord God - giving themselves the right to judge.

[oldav]

About young, unhappy single girls, this, of course, is in some sense true. But this is not an absolute indicator. In any case, she will raise one child and the state should help her in this, in return for the fact that she forbids her to have an abortion. Give for give as they say.
Basically, the first abortions are done for the following reasons; uncertainty about a guy, didn’t graduate from an institute, didn’t finish repairs in an apartment, didn’t go on vacation, a small apartment, I want to live a little longer for myself, wait until thirty, pay a mortgage, etc. Agree that is not a very significant reason to kill a living person? So my two friends were constantly putting it off for later and now they cannot have children.

[Metallurgist]

Among the acquaintances of my wife, of those who had an abortion, the reasons are only the following:
1. I do not want to give birth to a second (third) from this man - disappointment in her husband, but they do not get divorced for the same notorious material reasons.
2. No confidence in the future - the same reasons, but the view from the side.

Among young people, as I understand the situation, now to sleep (just to sleep, not thinking about the consequences) - like a glass of water to drink. And this comes from the fact that no one has ever explained to them what is good and what is bad. Those. the state has been working with children, deciding that mothers and father will cope on their own. As we see, they didn’t manage. I am talking about large cities, mainly Moscow time. An abortion due to non-payment of a mortgage - you know, this is essential. An agreement with a bank is such a tricky thing. And when you are thrown out into the street (by the way, the guardianship authorities will not help here - a fact, as they say in person) for debts and even with a small child ...
And everything else is apparently within the statistical error.

So the main problem is economic. Once this problem is solved, the fertility curve grows up.

[oldav]

Is there something you need to do? Mizulina offered, everyone pounced on her, suggest something else. The state, too, cannot take upon itself the 100% upkeep of a person simply because he decided to give birth. Mortgages, loans, single abandoned girls are present in all countries. But the statistics of abortions are the most depressing in our country.

[Metallurgist]

What to do?
Elementary.
1. Return pre-school education, including sections and kindergartens, for the MINIMUM or symbolic fee. Drive non-core dogs from former kindergartens to females.
2. Raise salaries in kindergartens, schools, raise salaries for trainers in children's sections.
3. To return the Soviet education system, according to the programs until 1988. If something was new and positive after 1988, turn it on.
4. Legally prohibit business from the category of "resale". In the same Soviet times, there were specialized state institutions that were engaged in imports. So let them do it.
5. Return the industry to state ownership. Really, it's funny when Severstal belongs to Lesha Mordashev. This is an example.
6. Equalize salaries in the regions. And not downward.
7. Return state regulation to food (bananas and oranges were also brought to the USSR, and there was nothing purchased) and medicine.
8. Leave two banks, the rest fuck - close.
9. The freed cadres (businessmen who in the USSR would sit down for specializations and other "effective" managers) - to build new enterprises, roads, hospitals, schools.
10. Strict censorship in all media, radio and television. I strongly doubt that many will suffer if they stop watching home and other rubbish.

This is only what comes to the head in the first five minutes.
But ... instead of returning to the socialist model, we propose to FORBID under the cover of beautiful phrases about "caring for the new generation and young mothers.

I did not mention programs for young families, distribution after graduation from universities and other professional educational institutions. I didn’t mention much. But these are the first and necessary steps. And then we can talk about demography.

[Darkness]

All this was. Why do you think this all disappeared?

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Metallurg

About the fact that "the husband must earn" - I do not want to swear.

The topic itself. Where is the normal work in the country?
One oil and gas sector only works. And everything else in the form of an appendage goes to him.
Where is the normal industry and developed agricultural production, with decent pay?
Which are the main engine and support of the economy of any civilized country, which does not even claim to be a "great power".
We love to criticize all sorts of Ukraine, etc., but we ourselves have left not far from them, in this.

I want to tell the lovers of job search tips right away. Go to the forest where you went.
I did not study for this and acquired four technical specialties in order to work as a clerk or loader in a store.

[Pissarro]

The defense industry is crying sobbing, there are not enough tens of thousands of engineers and skilled workers. But there are clerks and guards of all sorts. There are Tajiks and Uzbeks in the loaders, you would not be called there.

[Metallurgist]

The defense industry is crying, but does not want to pay a decent salary.
A simple example: will someone go to work from Moscow time to, say, Orenburg if in Moscow time the salary is 50 tr and in Orenburg at the defense industry enterprise - 23 tr? And the price tag is almost the same as in Moscow time.
Altruists somehow disappeared.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Pissarro

The defense industry is crying soberly, tens of thousands of engineers and skilled workers are lacking.

They need machine workers, not my profile.
All my specialties are related to direct work on technology.
Motor transport and special equipment.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: oldav

Our whole city is under construction, you can buy an apartment for 700 thousand

When Wed. salary of 15-18 thousand rubles is a very "real" topic. So after 100 years.

Buy a naked "odnushka" in which the same amount of money must be invested (for decoration, etc.), so that you can live there at all.

[Penzioner]

everything is just like that. And there’s nothing to minus here, well, if only for the truth

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Metallurg

Now for sure, minus.

Yes, why should you minus the comrade?
You have written everything so clearly and clearly that it is better and hardly anyone will write.
Plus you are huge for this.

[Zlyden.Zlo]

I completely agree with your conclusions. (Sometimes the thought skips that the slogan of our state is ... Multiply, we need slaves ...)
Child allowance up to 16 years

It is assigned to one of the parents (or the adoptive parent, guardian) for each child born, adopted, or adopted under guardianship until he reaches the age of sixteen years (if the child is studying in a general educational institution, then the allowance will be assigned until he graduates, but no more than until they are eighteen years old).

The amount of allowance for each child is 300 rubles per month.
Yes, unrealistic help from the state. Better we have the Olympics, World Cups

[oldav]

According to the article, you need to leave everything as it is and not touch anything. Let Russia remain in first place in the number of abortions, let everyone laugh at us, let the titular population continue to decline, let the number of infertile women grow, let the blood of innocent babies flow because = his mother doesn’t have enough to go to Egypt or new crossover. Well done gentlemen.

[Asily 50]

The idiocy of equating to * foreign *, you create conditions and only then demand. And the mother herself has the right to decide on her child. If the state cannot pay for motherhood, then there is nothing to go into this area.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: asilius 50

If the state cannot pay maternity

And the state is not obliged to do this, except for individual and exceptional situations. The task of the state is to create favorable conditions under which citizens themselves will give birth, raise, educate their children.

And these conditions are in ensuring the legislative and administrative framework that will work in priority for able-bodied citizens of Russia, and not for any gastrik and their slave owners.
Take for example the construction industry. And a good look at who works there today.
That's right, nothing has changed. The vast majority of workers are still there, those who come from Asian countries.
They still work under the same conditions, and the local population is still sitting idle. In addition, they have climbed into technology everywhere. Although they studied somewhere to work on it, I personally doubt it very much. They just bought documents and that's it.

And so, the alignment of such an industry as a whole throughout the country is barely breathing, agricultural production in deep .., at the construction site of everything and everyone in Asia, the majority of the local population survives as best as they can ... Oil painting - they sailed.

[Fibrizio]

To be honest, it was in connection with these events that I found out that abortions not for medical reasons were free. In my opinion, this is absolutely superfluous. It is really worth it to withdraw them, because it is a whim and not a medical condition.
Any sane person will find 10t.r. 2 tablets at an early stage. No, he’ll take a loan, 200 bucks is not space, parents will lend.
But the prohibition of abortion is stupidity. If for example people pay a mortgage? They still have to pay 3 years. They paid with the husband’s money, and lived on his wife’s salary. The wife gives birth, and after half a year the whole family is on the street. Great!
The next argument I consider is free will and choice. After all, this is an artificial ban. After all, the entire burden of content and education rests with the parents. In this regard, they must exclusively make an informed decision.
Next, we have socially disadvantaged groups. Students, schoolchildren. Of course it is so great when two first-year students at the age of 18 have twins. Both do not work. Mom and dad gift.
Not everyone can afford it.
You can scold me, but it is freedom of choice (even if it is incorrect) that determines the degree of freedom of a person.

[Darkness]

By the way, what about abortion in the USSR? Without any religious nonsense and worried deputies?

[wanderer_032]

Abortion. To give birth or not to give birth? Orthodoxy and national security of the Russian Federation. Article 1

And in general, what the hell is this article doing on Voenniy Obozreniye?

Head of the State Duma Committee on Family, Women and Children Elena Mizulina

In 1995, it joined the Yabloko association and the Reforms - New Deal movement. Since 1995, she headed the Yaroslavl regional public organization “Equilibrium
In December 1995, Mizulina was elected as a deputy of the State Duma of the XNUMXnd convocation in the Kirov single-mandate constituency (Yaroslavl) from Yabloko
In December 1999, she was elected to the State Duma of the 2000rd convocation from Yabloko. In July XNUMX, she headed the Yaroslavl Union of Democratic Forces, which included representatives of Yabloko and the Union of Right Forces
In February 2001, she announced that she was not going to confirm her membership in Yabloko [19]. In June of the same year she joined the Union of Right Forces [20]. Mizulin explained her departure from Yabloko by the fact that she “is personally ashamed to be in the party, which is gaining only 5% in the elections.” This has become a moral problem for me ”[21]. Former YB Mizulina’s associates in Yabloko and SPS, Sergei Mitrokhin and Leonid Gozman, explain Mizulina’s repeated change in political parties by following political trends [22] (that is, it’s just an adaptation without clear political guidelines IMHO )

Personal life
Married, has two adult children [89] [90].

Husband, Mikhail Yurievich Mizulin, Ph.D. (Philosophy), Associate Professor, Department of Political Science and Political Management, RANEPA. When Mizulina was a deputy from Yabloko, he headed the party cell in Yaroslavl [22] [91]. He was dean of the faculty of social sciences at Yaroslavl University [6].

The son, Nikolai Mizulin, studied at MGIMO, abroad - at Berne and Oxford universities. Now lives and works as a lawyer (according to some sources, he is a co-owner of a law firm [92]) in the capital of Belgium, Brussels, and is a partner of the law firm Mayer Brown. Two grandchildren Mizulina live in Brussels [22] [93]. Married to a Spanish citizen Patricia Gonzalez Antón-Pacheco, daughter of a famous Spanish writer.

Daughter Catherine also lives separately from her mother, and she has no children [93]. Mizulina’s daughter heads the Moscow Legal Capital Initiative Fund Legal Capital, which is engaged in financial intermediation, publishing and advertising [22]. According to press reports, the fund is owned by Elena Mizulina [94].
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CC%E8%E7%F3%EB%E8%ED%E0,_%C5%EB%E5%ED%E0_%C1%EE%F



0%E8%F1%EE%E2%ED%E0
(As the saying goes "oil painting". From all that is written above it is clear what it is)

[oldav]

Well done! gave birth and raised two children, which by today's standards is heroism.

[Darkness]

And she sent to study in the godly geyropu. Somehow not in the Orthodox.

[Stanislas]

Quote: wanderer_032

As the saying goes "oil painting".

In Pedivikia, there is no other way. And on Mizulina pidhomosexuals are especially angry.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Stanislav

There is no other way around pedagogy. And pidhomosexuals are especially angry with Mizulina.

For some reason, I don’t understand the people who live here and rush from one extreme to another ...

Either you understand all the "Yablochniki" and "SPSovtsy" they have a libero-eating offspring who are almost to blame for all the troubles of the country, then all of a sudden they have become Russia's benefactors for no reason or no reason. You already decide for yourself who you are with.

And the fact that such two-faced creatures like Mizulina and Co., with PGM out (to create a positive image among the masses, and not by any means because they are sincere and deeply religious people), hang out in the State Duma of the Russian Federation and write for everyone else, this is certainly excellent for the country.

And as for Mizulina and gays, she is so intolerant of them that she sent her child to study and live in the hotbed of gay "culture" - "GayES". Do not make me laugh.
By the way, she never denied this.

And whoever says anything, for me personally, such creatures like Mizulin and Co., ordinary opportunists who by any means got through to the feeder, were and remain those whom one needs to drive out with a filthy broom. And the faster, the better for the country.

Because it’s not today / tomorrow that any serious uncles / aunts (if they haven’t already taken) TAM of her son will be put into circulation, they will call mom on the phone and say:
Either you do everything that we tell you, or soon we will send you your child a parcel, in parts.

[Asily 50]

Yavlinsky, the creator of * apple *, was hiding in * DURK * from the army. Any follower of such an * ideologist * is the same.

[a housewife]

What a nasty little leaf? Who is trying to pass off this nonsense as something Orthodox? Everything is some kind of Western sectarian rubbish! One karma is worth it! Some kind of movement of the holy spirit (with a lowercase letter)! Which preachers have this fake taken from?

[wanderer_032]

Quote: housewife

What a nasty little leaf?

Memo to those with PGM (Orthodoxy of the Brain).

What is PGM?

PGM (Orthodoxy of the brain) is a memetic disease that affects the human central nervous system, a malignant form of PHM.

memetic-Mem (English meme, read like a mime), also known as a media virus - is an idea, image or any other object of the non-material world that is transmitted from person to person verbally, non-verbally, via the Internet or whatever else. A meme can change within the carrier, affect it and society as a whole. If you look more broadly, then there is such a mechanism for transmitting and storing cultural information that uses selfish entities that devour brains (memes) as its carrier, and people as memory cells.

FGM-phimosis (Greek. Φωμωσις - narrowing) of the brain (often also in the Kashchenite spelling: “phymosis of the goyle mosquito”, etc. [1].) Is the main mental illness that is treated in Kashchenka. A special case of FGM is Orthodoxy of the brain (otherwise - Christosis of the brain).

[wanderer_032]

Treatment:

The forecast is unfavorable. Shock therapy, antipsychotics, isolation are indicated: induced delirium is very likely, help in compensating for illiteracy, and stimulating the brain. However, due to the high prevalence of the disease and the lack of specialized treatment centers, the provision of medical care is difficult.
Science has established that morbid religiosity is a symptom of epilepsy, respectively, PGM can be treated surgically with brain surgery.

It should be especially noted that patients with PGM are socially dangerous, therefore their isolation from society is necessary.
In rare cases, self-healing is possible under the influence of the Internet. Cure at the terminal stage is impossible, the object loses its ability to adequately perceive information.
In rare cases, a cure is possible under the influence of harsh reality, about which any illusions are shattered. The collision of a patient with PHM with reality most often leads to the death of the first. If the patient survives, then the progression of the disease becomes the most frequent outcome and only in some cases there is a remission - the patient throws out any infected literature that contributes to the development of the syndrome and sends everything to ...
However, science has recorded precedents when, after recovery, the patient continued his Orthodox-oriented activity, not wanting (or not being able to) lose bonuses. Such cases rarely come to light, because the exposure of the "traitor to the Motherland" almost inevitably entails a loss of credibility and all the same bonuses. Therefore, having met with a person who brings "good and light to the masses", do not rush to conclusions: maybe this is just his job?

[wanderer_032]

All this applies to militant religious fanatics who suffer from PGM and of whom many have divorced in modern Russia.
To normal, mature and deeply religious people who do not stick to each and every one with the slogan "Have you already passed the baptism ceremony ?!" and they understand that our country is a secular multi-confessional state, this does not apply.

[strimmer]

Of course, not everything is smooth in the bill, but abortion really needs to be brought into the competence of only state clinics. We are ruining our gene pool with our own hands. And with the youth it is necessary to carry out explanatory work in order to understand what a child is and what to plan, and not just conceive in a hurry. The system is needed.

[Smol79]

I believe that if a girl, a woman can not support a child, then let him leave him in the hospital with a waiver of parental rights. And let him continue to festival or career. Infants will be adopted by those women who, as a result of early or repeated abortions, have lost the ability to bear, hundreds of thousands of times a year of such abortions occur in hundreds of thousands of abortions per year.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Smol79

I believe that if a girl, a woman can not support a child, then let him leave him in the hospital with a waiver of parental rights.

Yes, and those who give birth because of mat.capital do so.
If you think that the child will have a sweet life in a foster family, then you are mistaken. And seriously.
The blissful picture in the "box" about happy children in foster families is generally far from the harsh reality.
In addition, the orphans are not averse to "warm the hands" of all kinds of bureaucrats, starting from directors of children's homes, etc. After all, the state allocates considerable resources for their maintenance.
By the way, I suppose that not everyone who takes their children into a foster family does so out of pure and disinterested motives. This whole system has turned into a well-oiled business, where orphans are a living commodity and a "cash cow".

[a housewife]

Yeah, they destroyed their own, give them strangers. Then they will be told that abortion is normal. But women with primary infertility (who did not have an abortion) should be allowed to adopt such children in the first place. They will love and value these children, and will educate them correctly.

[tokens2]

a housewife

Yeah, they destroyed their own, give them strangers. Then they will be told that abortion is normal.

Do you generally understand that in the 90s (and based on the backlog from the Soviet years) people simply "took out" the brain with continuous propaganda and constant stress ????? from "chaos" - where the strongest wins. In what the strongest is just not clear.
In other words, there was ordinary genocide. Under the influence of the most advanced technologies.
And you can leave your opinion for your household.

[a housewife]

But you generally understand that about the 90s, for example, I completely agree with you. And that the law in this form is stupidity, too. Yes, I expressed my opinion. And for some reason you think that I have no right to this. The impression that the word annoys you is a housewife. That is, I have to find something for the brainless? A la hairstyle, makeup, fashionable handbag? Or does it infuriate you that I am Orthodox? I did not know that this was a crime or stupidity. And I do not teach anyone, but I express my opinion without scoffing at anyone. Fortunately, there are many more normal people here. And these are not necessarily Christians.

[corn]

In the article a mistake was made several times, instead of "abortal" the author writes "aboral" (this word means "opposite to the oral cavity").
The question raised in the article is much deeper than "to prohibit or not to prohibit abortion." The problem is that the number of Russians, as a state-forming nation, is constantly decreasing (like the population of Russia as a whole).
Small calculation:
The average life expectancy in Russia in 2014 is 66,05.
Number of births in 2002 -1,397 million, in 2012 -1,937 million, on average per year - 1,672. We multiply by 66,05 and get the figure of 110,44 million people after 66 years, i.e. population decline of about 0,5 million per year.
I do not like the legislative prohibition of abortion (and Mizulin too), but the calculation shows that emotions need to be thrust into an aboral place.

[Fibrizio]

Now no one will give you statistics on how many Russians give birth. Here are the Russians and can go to + in general. But about the Russians I doubt it very much. Rarely are two children, and I only remembered only one family as a Russian friend with 3 children.

[Fibrizio]

Now no one will give you statistics on how many Russians give birth. Here are the Russians and can go to + in general. But about the Russians I doubt it very much. Rarely are two children, and I only remembered only one family as a Russian friend with 3 children.

[oldav]

As chiliness decreased, it decreases. Other nations make statistics.

[corn]

Found a mistake, I consider it necessary to fix it.
It is written: in 2012 - 1,937 million, and it should be: in 2014 - 1,937 million.

[Rostislav]

The proposal is correct and reasonable. It is wrong for the state to cut the demographic branch on which it sits, paying for abortions. The family is the children. If you really want to "just have fun" - pay it out of your pocket.

[Zomanus]

Foolish law. It is correctly written that with the adoption of such a law there will be both infanticide and illegal contraceptives vigorous and clandestine abortion. Moreover, now it will not look so lively. And that’s it, the problem will close. Do police hangouts and machine gun halls roof? That abortion will protect. Dope is shorter. Actually, as Mizulin herself with her laws. Well, you don’t need so many children and people now. It is necessary to improve living conditions, and not slaughter the country with meat, scoring on living conditions. Start housing affordable, the population itself will go to growth.

[Darkness]

Usually they forbid something they don’t want to fight.
What prevents a high-quality abortion or in case of complications immediately warning a woman that she will not be able to have children anymore is not clear ....

[Dimka off]

A clear ban on abortion at all times. It's time to stop the terrible sin of infanticide. And conduct propaganda of responsible motherhood and fatherhood, chastity and large families.

[Fibrizio]

And with your logic, since Allah does not prohibit legalizing polygamy.

[Darkness]

Usually so say those to whom women do not give.

[Stanislas]

Those who oppose this legislative initiative. If you are consistent in defending the state’s attitude to sex as the best of drugs - safe (with minimal contraception costs) and irresponsible pleasure (abortion at the expense of society, you can abandon the child later without consequences for the biography), then they must support all the requirements of LGBT people: they want the same thing.

[oldav]

Statistics! In Chechen-Ingushetia, the number of abortions is 12 per 100 births, in the Novosibirsk region (mine) 129, the population growth is 19,2, nso-0,3. In terms of crime, last place, in terms of divorce, last place, there are no orphanages .. Let's learn from the smaller brothers.

[corn]

Quote: oldav

Let's learn from the smaller brothers.

Who do you consider "smaller brothers". Sounds very ambiguous in the context of your comment.

[Darkness]

Let's introduce Islam everywhere and everything will be fine right away, yes.

[Fibrizio]

Quote: Darkness

Those. Is the one-week fetus and newborn baby the same thing?

From the point of view of the law, if my memory serves me, the fetus becomes a child when it is born and can breathe on its own. And contrary to the opinion of some, this is an exclusively legal term.
And the last is already punished 105 of the Criminal Code.

[Darkness]

Those. he is considered a person exclusively from the moment of birth, and not conception. Contrary to the opinion of many stubborn.
If abortion is allowed only for medical reasons, euthanasia will also have to be allowed.

[Docent1984]

There is a lot and, in general, it is right to reason about laws, global things, the birth rate curve and other smart things ... But in my opinion, the problem should be considered from a different angle. And under what. After watching a couple of reports about different dysfunctional families, about five, six or seven children who "suddenly" have nothing to feed and nothing to wear, after listening to stories from the lives of people living near the poverty line, I came to the conclusion that 90% In such a contingent, children are born because "IT WAS THIS" - and with just such a formulation. That is, people do not even realize that intimacy leads to the conception of a child, it seems in 40% of cases. And they have no concept of responsibility from the word "absolutely". The problems of these children do not begin suddenly, but even before their birth, when the "parents" do not think at all how, where and at whose expense they will raise and support these children until the working age ... This is where the devil lies, and not at all in laws ...

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Docent1984

The problems of these children do not begin all of a sudden, but even before their birth, when the “parents” do not think at all how, where and at whose expense they will raise and support these children until they are of working age.

I completely agree with you. Personally, I have watched this many times.
One of the reasons that such a positive change does not occur in the mass consciousness of Russian citizens is that many citizens still do not realize the realities of the state structure under which they currently live.
And the authorities and the media contribute to this, which deliberately mislead people, that is, they are engaged in mass disinformation of the population on this topic.
At the same time, the first, among other things, are trying to do this, luring people with all sorts of "nishtyaks" such as mat.capital and so on with such pseudomers, not wanting to really change the very consciousness of people for the better, as well as demand from employers, for example, strict compliance with the law on payments to employees worthy salaries.
When citizens themselves earn decent money (regardless of the social status they occupy) and independently give birth, raise and educate their children for their own means, the birth rate problem in Russia will disappear by itself. Because it is a different level of consciousness of citizens, a higher level than the one that exists today.
Then the government itself will be able to realize social obligations (in the form of social benefits, etc.) only for those who really need it. This will significantly reduce the burden on the country's budget, especially in such difficult times as today.
And today's state policy regarding this topic is extremely wrong, all sorts of "mat.capitaly" just corrupted people. I personally know examples when young girls or women give birth to children, only in order to receive this social allowance (to feed and raise the rest, or spend this money on themselves, at their discretion). As soon as they are given all the necessary documents in their hands, they abandon their children, sign a refusal in the hospital (at best) or simply throw the children out into the street ... All this is sad.

[wanderer_032]

There is another kind of bad practice, this is when a woman doctors say in advance that she will give birth to a child with significant physical or mental disorders. And what do you think?
She gives birth to him calmly. Indeed, such a child relies on a practically life-long pension and all sorts of benefits, which can be well-established in low-income regions of the country. What is the use of such a citizen? He will never be able to work (here they don’t take healthy people everywhere), to serve in the army (unsuitable for all indicators), etc., etc. He is often a burden to society, a lifelong burden.
Employees of various government agencies that work on this profile (all kinds of boarding schools, homes for the disabled, etc.), often also do not mind warming their hands on this topic.
This can be seen if you take an interest in this topic separately. Remember how many such scandalous cases have come to the surface lately. But this is just a small part. Very small. The sphere of maintenance and service of such a category of citizens has long become a good and profitable business for some of the people. The interests of such children themselves, or already adults, do not bother any of them. They exist only to be a "cash cow" in the interests of others, who have everything in order with their physiology and psyche.
Therefore, it is expected that the birth of such people will only increase with time.
Are you still against any abortion?

In this case, the state simply throws the media "down the drain", such citizens will not be able to work, not to defend the country if something happens. And in hard times, they just die. They will not be able to survive on their own.
And what about this?

[Volgroo]

None other than this law is pushed by the enemies of the state. Let the FSB take a pencil. I agree with you.

[a housewife]

Hard times will surely come for a country that does not value an individual, but values ​​only healthy organisms. By the way, any sufficiently healthy and self-confident organism can suddenly turn into a cripple (no one is safe from anything), who cannot earn anything on his own. Will it be necessary to get rid of them so that their family does not experience moral and financial difficulties? Moreover, do not give the cripple the right to vote in any case. Once helpless, let others decide for you. For medical reasons.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: housewife

any healthy and confident body can suddenly turn into a cripple

Can. But not from birth, but as a consequence of a mutilation received somewhere. This is a significant difference.

[oldav]

Quote: corn

Quote: oldav

Let's learn from the smaller brothers.

Who do you consider "smaller brothers". Sounds very ambiguous in the context of your comment.

Yes, at least to learn from someone, worse than ours (Russian) no one has. Enough disgrace to the whole world.

[RuslanNN]

Madam Mizulina is engaged in populism. Does Amne want, since she cares about the swan of Russia, to pass a bill on normal payments for keeping children, providing kindergartens, free sports sections? Many do not have children because it is really very difficult to provide for them. So we must start not with prohibitions, but with real help to families.

[chunga-changa]

Abortion is now easier to cure than the flu. Influenza like you do not twist at least three for, and an abortion for half an hour. 4/5 husbands and do not suspect how many and when the wife does an abortion, it reaches double digits.

[Volgroo]

Well, in Russia, more than a dozen usually do not run.

[Polokirter]

The morality of society wants to be better. 1) Remember the history, when the Nazis attacked the USSR, the Germans studied young women, 90% were virgins, Hitler said that people with such moral foundations cannot be defeated. 2) What are the expressions: "to produce poverty", is it now poverty? People, come to your senses, what was it like to live in Russia in the first half of the 20th century? Two wars, famine, devastation, at that time it was possible to talk about poverty, but not now. 3) Scientists have long proven that the embryo is a new personality, it is not a woman's organ, as many like to say, it is a separate person who also wants to live, abortion is murder.

[Metallurgist]

If we compare the level of prosperity of a resident of the Moscow principality in the 17th century and at the beginning of the 20th? - where was better?
So it is here. Do not confuse the concept. To create poverty means impossibility to educate a child, impossibility to provide a child with the necessary minimum without depriving himself of his usual comfort.
No need to talk about cars, apartments and trips to the Maldives. This is now unavailable to the vast majority of people in the Russian Federation.
Habitual comfort: an apartment, a TV, a refrigerator in which no mouse was hung, the opportunity to buy new clothes for the child every three months, and then once every six months and decent food (fruits and vegetables, meat, poultry, fish, dairy products). This is the presence of a computer at home, possibly the Internet. This is a decent medical service, this is leisure after all.
So your comment in paragraph two is pure water populism.

[Pissarro]

This is not populism, this is a different value approach. The comrade wrote correctly, in the thirties and forties it was much worse in terms of life, hunger did happen, but they did not lose heart, they gave birth to children and built a country

[Volgroo]

At that time, the state was responsible for everything. (baby food, education, healthcare, etc.) Now a specific person is responsible and education is paid. Now without education it is difficult to become a person.
Return to reality from 30-40 years.

[a housewife]

So let the state remember that we are not Chinese, our country needs people! We need a population !!! Own, not migrants. With education not fake, with high-tech and well-paid jobs! And the state must ensure the health of its people! Then the country will be prosperous. It is impossible to have a prosperous country on oil, gas, weapons and fruit trade.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Pissarro

This is not populism, this is a different value approach. The comrade wrote correctly, in the thirties and forties it was much worse in terms of life, hunger did happen, but they did not lose heart, they gave birth to children and built a country

Because the entire population of the country had such a collective task in mind - to build a country. And these were not empty words, as today. These were very specific cases.

Then the working hands were sorely lacking. And they paid with dignity for the work.
Under Stalin, they would try not to pay what people really earned.
I would look at that.
For example, if the machine operator didn’t get decent money, on time and without fraud, this would threaten to disrupt the state plan. And for the failure of the state plan then they did not stroke the head.
There was criminal liability for this.

And the management of the enterprises then chased such people and cherished them so that the state plan was 100% fulfilled.
In agricultural production, the same thing happened. Because the products of the agricultural enterprise were also handed over according to the state plan. Those who worked well then earned with dignity. Old people confirm this as one.

What about today? And then, as in the famous proverb: "If you want this, but if you want to strike, you will still get - X ...!" And the point to strain?

[Pissarro]

Everything was written correctly. That's just the saying at the end of your post was invented in the Union, and not now, I remember it well

[Polokirter]

Dear, you must use the words correctly and understand what they mean: "The meaning of the word poverty - well. (From nothing, nothing?) Extreme poverty, squalor, poverty, need and lack; opposite. Wealth, abundance" (Dahl's dictionary). Our century, this time of egoists, think only of themselves: mine, for me, for me. First, they sleep with just anyone, and then they kill the children, and yell at the top of their lungs about their rights, and who will talk about the rights of millions of murdered unborn children? Look at the statistics, without a declared war we lose millions of people every year. What's this? Is this the 21st century of enlightenment and civilization? Animals don't behave like that.

[Metallurgist]

You do not understand what I wrote.
Those who sleep with anyone and shout about their rights are, in principle, also citizens. This is one point.
As for about breeding poverty.
Do you have children? Do you walk with them in the yard? Or maybe they tell you about school?
And that someone bought a new mobile phone for someone, but you cannot.
Someone provided summer for their child in the Crimea, while someone else simply in the yard.
Someone is buying new clothes, while someone is carrying over after others.
Someone riding a brand new bike, and someone running with a stick instead of automatic.
Children are very angry. And I have no right to condemn the mother who had an abortion due to fear that her child will not receive the minimum that almost everyone now has.

An example of the 30-40s is not about that. Everything was almost the same there. Without such a split in society into rich and poor, as it is now.
And which is better? To give birth, and not to engage in a child, so that he shies on the street and as a result with almost 100% probability becomes a drunk or a drug addict, or does he still have an abortion?
Low morals are you talking about?
And you start with yourself. You personally, you are ready to monthly unfasten 60% of your salary to those who simply gave birth to stupid things and are not thinking about anything. Leveling!
And about the rights of the murdered and unborn children, if you are not ready to unfasten their maintenance, you are not talking here. Sounds hypocritical. Virtually we are all Dartanyans, only when it comes to real - for some reason everyone is running into the bushes.

[Volgroo]

I agree with you.

[Pissarro]

to kill a child for fear of poverty? Tinplate
And while there will always be a difference in income, you will buy a new Toyota and a Ferrari neighbor. Instead of explaining to your child that this is not happiness, do you offer it right away so that you don’t suffer?

[Metallurgist]

Pissarro
No dirt and distortion.
You about one thing, you about the other. Those who are measured by machines - they are, as it were, from another world. I'm talking about the most necessary things.
You probably did not see how in the 90s people came to the market and bought 1 apple for a child in advance and 1 apple in pay? Did not see? Then be silent.
It is not your business to judge who is capable of what.
I would be extremely curious to see you personally. When, from hunger and cold, your moral principles begin to fall. Then we'll talk.
Sitting in a warm chair at the computer all the heroes.

[Pissarro]

we probably flew from outer space and didn’t live in the 90s. Our whole country went through poverty then, so before you write such posts, you should think and be silent yourself

Yes, and not you organized a computer for me and a warm place with him, but I myself

[Stanislas]

Quote: Metallurg

And about the rights of the murdered and unborn children, if you are not ready to unfasten their maintenance, you are not talking

Are you personally ready to pay a pension to disabled people? No?! Under their knife! Would you like to take on a couple of elderly (= disabled)? No? A couple of liters of gasoline and a match will help close the issue together with the Nursing Home. D'Artagnan, allocate 60% of your salary for abortions for pregnant women who do not know who the father of the child is, or go straight to their gas van?

[Metallurgist]

Turn off emotions.
From the point of view of the state - pensioners have a burden. Disabled - there is a burden. Cynically? - Yes, of course.
Support for orphanages and nursing homes comes from the state, and therefore from your taxes and mine.
But about this, that this is a burden - it is not customary to speak. Inhuman and so on.
A simple example: medical experiments on people in a concentration camp. Inhuman? ”“ Sure. Only for some reason, doctors around the world use the results.
So you need to calm your scream.

This is something completely different. So after this remark aside - either go back to the original topic, or don't write "sideways".
And then take a calculator and calculate: which is more profitable, pay for an abortion or keep a child under 18 in an orphanage.
By the way, according to our laws, the state is obliged, you hear, is obliged to provide them with housing.

[Stanislas]

Quote: Metallurg

And then take a calculator and calculate: which is more profitable, pay for an abortion or keep a child under 18 in an orphanage

I thought you were an accountant, not a metallurgist . Using the same calculator, calculate what is more profitable to burn the Nursing Home, or pay for the maintenance of 30 of its inhabitants, which, it is possible, can last even an average of 15 years. This is your accounting argument about the benefits of abortion.

[Metallurgist]

Stasik, you can keep your opinion of me with you.
And if you don't turn off your emotions, then think about the following question: if the state WILL NOT take care of pensioners - what incentive do young people have to live and work in this state? So your inclinations to "burn" - implement with your retired parents at your own dacha.
So go and teach materiel, although in your case you have to start from school. From the primitive concepts of "good" and "evil".

[Volgroo]

And how many times have you given birth and how many children do you have to judge this issue? )))

[Metallurgist]

Quote: volgroo

And how many times have you given birth and how many children do you have to judge this issue? )))

Check to whom you addressed the question.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Polokirter

Look at the statistics, without a declared war, we lose millions of people every year.

And we will lose further. If the authorities do not change the attitude towards citizens, at whose expense they actually exist.
So far, the economic situation in the country will not change radically. People no longer believe in fairy tales about how once in the distant future Russia will have a normal life.
It’s time to create this life ourselves. Another day before yesterday.

[Volgroo]

Scientists will be very surprised that the embryo is a person. Present evidence first. Or maybe the seed is also a new person, and not your secretion. ))) And then the seed lost once and committed a crime for killing a person. )))

[Volgroo]

In the USSR, morality was high, but the state was responsible for everything. The result is totalitarianism. Morality is possible with one's own choice. From time immemorial, a woman herself made such a choice. The state needs human resources for a large territory, and the church needs power and flock / money. I hope the Russian people are tired of being a "human resource". A person should sound proud, but for pride one has to become a person. And for this it is necessary to feed, clothe, warm the child (have a living space) and educate, and most importantly, physical and mental health is necessary, which is possible only in a full-fledged family. Otherwise, a defective personality with criminal inclinations will grow up (in a poor and incomplete family). I think the law on traffic is harmful to the country (at this stage). The worst thing is that the state does not need a healthy nation, but only slaves.
And in general, get the opinion of women. Who gives birth and brings up, he must decide this issue.

[a housewife]

The word is written through A. Abort. You are discussing what you can't even write correctly! Women sometimes make a choice exactly SDURU. Then they often regret it. And the men at this time where ??? These are their children !!! Instead of saying - my dear, the main thing is that he was born, I will do everything for you! - either "you have money, have an abortion", or an inarticulate muttering - "Well, this is a woman's choice, she has the right ..." And where are your rights? If your woman has an abortion, you are not quite a man at all, so you are a male. It's good that there are a lot of real Men! It can be seen even here!

[Fibrizio]

Quote: Darkness

Those. he is considered a person exclusively from the moment of birth, and not conception. Contrary to the opinion of many stubborn.
If abortion is allowed only for medical reasons, euthanasia will also have to be allowed.

It is not enough for him to be born, he must be viable. He is considered a child only when he independently took his first breath. Not earlier. Until this de jure, he was not a child.
And I don’t see a connection about euthanasia.

[Darkness]

Because euthanasia can be done for medical reasons. By the way, I am in favor with both hands.

[Stanislas]

Quote: Fibrizio

Until this de jure, he was not a child.

Do not put "de jure" above all else. Laws are usually adopted by not the most literate and honest people. Once upon a time, the slave was not de jure a subject of law (= "political animal" = man). It is about changing the law so that at the stage of intrauterine existence, the fetus is considered a child, and not the property of a woman, which she can dispose of according to the situation and at her discretion.

[Fibrizio]

Well, as soon as we stop putting the law in the first place, we stop living in a state of law with all the ensuing consequences.
If you equate the fetus with the child, then it will be illegal to have an abortion for medical reasons, because it will mean killing. For example, at an early stage of pregnancy, it was revealed that the fetus is sick with Down's disease. You have the right to decide whether to give birth to it or not, but with your highly moral logic this is impossible. You give birth to him, he will sit on your neck for a number of years, and when you die he will be handed over to a nursing home where he will be bullied and will quickly die in misery.
Do not think categorically. For the sake of the doctor’s interest, ask at what stage the fetus becomes rational. They will answer you rather cynically.

[Pissarro]

For the sake of the doctor’s interest, ask at what stage the fetus becomes rational. They will answer you rather cynically.

This is a very weak argument, the newborn does not have any reason at all. Reason is the ability to think, the newborn is not capable of thinking. The fetus of 9 months and the month-old baby are absolutely no different

[Volgroo]

I offer a test for everyone.
How much are you ready to pay per month from your funds for someone else’s born child when voting for the adoption of this law? Take the minimum for job loss at the labor exchange and the average salary in the city of a millionaire.
a) 4.500r
b) 20.000 rub

Second test.
How much do you think you need to spend per month on a child?
Your Answer ____________________________________________

[Pissarro]

it is fundamentally wrong to level and take a fixed amount from all.
There is maternal capital and there is a mechanism for the formation of this capital, it is necessary to improve it, and not deal with the financing of dependents. Practice shows that you can’t get a good citizen by dependency, but it’s right to help a normal family buy an apartment and educate children

[wanderer_032]

Quote: volgroo

How much do you think you need to spend per month on a child?

And here it’s not necessary to take it, the state itself has recently set a minimum of average to ensure the vital functions of all categories of citizens.



The government of the Russian Federation increased the cost of living
05.06.2015

The Government of the Russian Federation increased the cost of living The Cabinet, by its resolution of June 4, 2015 No. 545, approved the size of the cost of living per capita for the main socio-demographic groups of the population as a whole in the Russian Federation for the first quarter of 2015. The document was developed by the Ministry of Labor of Russia.
Thus, the subsistence minimum in Russia as a whole for the I quarter of 2015 per capita was set at 9662 rubles, for the able-bodied population - 10 rubles, for pensioners - 404 rubles, for children - 7916 rubles.
Recall that for the IV quarter of 2014, the subsistence minimum was determined in the following amount: per capita - 8234 rubles, for the able-bodied population - 8885 rubles, for pensioners - 6785 rubles, for children - 7899 rubles. Thus, compared to the fourth quarter of last year, the subsistence minimum per capita for the first quarter of this year increased by 17,1% for the able-bodied population, by 16,7% for pensioners and 20,1% for children.
In accordance with the Federal Law of October 24, 1997 No. 134-FZ "On the subsistence minimum in the Russian Federation", the subsistence minimum per capita and for the main socio-demographic groups of the population as a whole for the country is determined on the basis of the consumer basket and Rosstat data on the level of consumer prices for food, non-food products and services. Determination of the subsistence minimum is necessary to assess the standard of living of the population of Russia in the development and implementation of social policy and federal social programs, substantiation of the minimum wage established at the federal level, the amount of scholarships, benefits and other social payments, as well as for the formation of the federal budget.

http://seminar.bash.ru/index.php/news/1984-r-n-pravitel-stvo-rf-uvelichilo-velic




hinu-prozhitochnogo-minimuma-rn

Accordingly, for each child in the family should be minimum(i.e. from :) - 9489 RUB per MONTH

If you count a year, we get - 113 thousand 868 rubles, the minimum amount for each child in the family.

Now tell me, do many of you have wages that actually correspond to at least this minimum?

[wanderer_032]

Quote: wanderer_032

Now tell me, do many of you have wages that actually correspond to at least this minimum?

I want to add to this. To minimally provide with you a family of 3 people, at this time the head of the family needs to earn at least 30 tr, clean on hand.
And where is such a salary in the country? In addition to Moscow, St. Petersburg and the North.
The remaining regions leaves the country simply do not need, because. real Wed s / n in them 15-18 thousand, on hand.

So let Muscovites, Petersburgers and those who travel north on shift give birth. They also suggest not doing abortions. IMHO.

[Polokirter]

Yes, citizens, with such a worldview we will not go far. The value of human life is opposed to everyday life. One must think in advance before spreading his legs, then there will be no such discussions. Now many families are ready to take a child. Beginning, give birth, leave in the orphanage, but do not kill. This is my position.

[Darkness]

And, which is typical, almost some men are chatting))) and everyone decides what and how to do for women. If the "stronger" sex, for the most part, did not make it into the bushes at the first words - "you reap, we will have a child", there would be no need for misulin.
Look in the mirror, men.

[tokens2]

Most of all amuses me
"You will have a child"
from TV screens.
In a country with the wildest demography.
The cynicism of the highest standard.
Our people are doing everything in spite.
Just what an incredible symbiosis of interests of ordinary people and those who "look far away" somewhere out there.

[Russian]

When the sperm in the uterus combines with the egg, the Soul sent by God to the incarnation enters into this substance. Everything, there is a man. Without God's purpose (soul), the germ perishes. An abortion is a murder. This sin is practically insoluble. You can minus, but this was seen by a person who is cooler than Wangi and Juna. My savior. My humble friend.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: rus

Abortion is a murder.

Yes, this is a murder. But what pushes a person to do this?
The reasons may be different. And very different.
Someone makes an abortion for the reason to continue to lead a dissolute lifestyle, and someone out of compassion for a future person, knowing what awaits him in the future.
Because there is no medium, no opportunity to grow him a full-fledged person.

And the person will not answer for this before those who are in power on Earth, incl. and in front of clowns from the State Duma, such as Mizulina.
Who put themselves on a level with God, or even above him.

Who are they? The same people who commit the same sins and mistakes, like everyone else.
The social status of those sitting at the feeding trough does not give them any right to decide the fate of people.
They even at the elementary level cannot organize and arrange the life of people in the country so that elementary and understandable rules of life are respected.
What to say. Often they can’t even arrange their own life normally, but climb into strangers.

I suppose that if the state continues to interfere with the private life of the country's population, then over time it will actually cross that "red line" that will lead to its complete collapse.
Because such "experiments" on people have always ended very badly for the "experimenters" themselves.

[Pissarro]

Someone makes an abortion for the reason to continue to lead a dissolute lifestyle, and someone out of compassion for a future person, knowing what awaits him in the future.
Because there is no medium, no opportunity to grow him a full-fledged person.

What do you know about tomorrow? In a happy, wealthy large family, parents and hello need can die in a car accident at one point.

[wanderer_032]

Quote: Pissarro

Tomorrow, as one Ukrainian philosopher said, not everyone can watch

And at least I know what this "philosopher" is.

Quote: Pissarro

A single mother can fulfill herself by providing for her child, or marry successfully.

And what does a single mother have to do with it?

Quote: Pissarro

In a happy wealthy large family at one point, parents and hello need can die in a car accident.

Less driver's licenses should be sold to those who are not able to competently drive a car on the road and other idiots. Then people will die less in an accident. In our region three pedestrians have been shot down in the region over the past XNUMX hours. Two to death.

Quote: Pissarro

What do you know about tomorrow?

What I got to work. And that is a fact.

[gammipapa]

Situations are different, why scratch everyone under one comb.

For example, a recent case from my life. We decided to give birth to a third child, so rejoiced when everything turned out. It seems that this is not the time (the elders are already big), but they thought and decided, let’s feed them normally, but the elders will not die like that.
So what in the end, even for a short time, the spouse had a distance of 200, she just began to fade before our eyes. And now die to her ??? Well, someone will say, but what if everything worked out. Yes, it wouldn’t work, the fifth dozen, with a head, it seems everything is in order. I had to have an abortion. It was so sick at heart, almost a month like a lost walked.

[andrian]

Here our Dads and Moms gave birth and studied to us, lived on small salaries, and rented rooms, worked two jobs, rested in tents, played guitars. AND WE ARE !!!
And then they fanned it! Work, career, holidays on the islands, car, iPhone-phone with 10 cards, capitalism-socialism. And who do you have, and whether ????

[Aleksiy]

The question is sooo complicated. I can only share the experience of living in Canada and the children's question. In Canada, the state helps families depending on family income, the lower it is, the more help. Very much the state helps single mothers. Kindergartens are very diverse, I will say that I stopped at a private kindergarten, where teachers from Russia, Ukraine, cost 800 $ per child per month, the state kindergarten was terrible. Maternity leave is less than in Russia. In hospitals, no one here pokes abortion in the nose, even if there is a high probability that he will be born with abnormalities, by the way, even if doctors advise you to have an abortion - do not rush, maybe your baby will fall into that percentage of healthy children, and you will be comforted. Regarding the fact that the child will prevent you from making a career, or something else, in my opinion, if you started in your life ... well, then the child has nothing to do with it, as in the opposite case. When everything goes well, the child will not be some kind of anchor. The main thing to remember is abortion, it is an IRRUPTIBLE action.

[LM66]

Abortion killing, masturbation genocide

[Fibrizio]

Quote: wanderer_032

Quote: wanderer_032

Now tell me, do many of you have wages that actually correspond to at least this minimum?

I want to add to this. To minimally provide with you a family of 3 people, at this time the head of the family needs to earn at least 30 tr, clean on hand.
And where is such a salary in the country? In addition to Moscow, St. Petersburg and the North.
The remaining regions leaves the country simply do not need, because. real Wed s / n in them 15-18 thousand, on hand.

So let Muscovites, Petersburgers and those who travel north on shift give birth. They also suggest not doing abortions. IMHO.

There is another problem. I'm 25, and about 45 sn. And this is the initial sn, if I may say so. One BUT, in Moscow everything is more expensive. Simple counting. The rent is 6k, the fare is 3.5k, to eat at a minimum at work is 200r / day, let's say 500r for drugs per month, well, at least 10 thousand for food at home. In short, about 30k, it takes me only to service. And I’m not getting it at all yet.
Point number 2. I live in a communal apartment (room 19sq.m) with my family (mother, father, sister). The apartment costs at least 6 lyam. Please tell me where can I place children in these situations?
This is the question of the Muscovites.

[although]

Quote: Fibrizio

Quote: wanderer_032

Quote: wanderer_032

Now tell me, do many of you have wages that actually correspond to at least this minimum?

I want to add to this. To minimally provide with you a family of 3 people, at this time the head of the family needs to earn at least 30 tr, clean on hand.
And where is such a salary in the country? In addition to Moscow, St. Petersburg and the North.
The remaining regions leaves the country simply do not need, because. real Wed s / n in them 15-18 thousand, on hand.

So let Muscovites, Petersburgers and those who travel north on shift give birth. They also suggest not doing abortions. IMHO.

There is another problem. I'm 25, and about 45 sn. And this is the initial sn, if I may say so. One BUT, in Moscow everything is more expensive. Simple counting. The rent is 6k, the fare is 3.5k, to eat at a minimum at work is 200r / day, let's say 500r for drugs per month, well, at least 10 thousand for food at home. In short, about 30k, it takes me only to service. And I’m not getting it at all yet.
Point number 2. I live in a communal apartment (room 19sq.m) with my family (mother, father, sister). The apartment costs at least 6 lyam. Please tell me where can I place children in these situations?
This is the question of the Muscovites.

What a ridiculous ... I'm 33, and about 40, and this is the ceiling for a leading position in production in our region, rent 7+, travel on your own transport, 8 f / mo, for 200 eat only in the dining room .... you still well, you have good health ...
two are, and the third will be means will be and the apartments are in Balashikha ...
We do not whine, we live, Muscovites have come up with a fairy tale about "unassembled" if you feel so sorry for yourself, try to protect yourself, and not kill unborn children ...
Think your child is scraped into pieces with an iron scraper, you think, take your time to imagine the picture ... After all, this is your unborn child! And the point here is not religion, and not prosperity. Today you whine for abortion, tomorrow you will whine for euthanasia .... after all, feeding the elderly is so expensive ...

[Suvorovu]

The author of the article:

Let's pay a premium for turnovers - well, 100 thousand.
look, in 25 years there will be not 140 but 70 million, in another 25 years - 35 million, etc.
Stalin 10 years ago was an ENEMY, now he is no longer, but after the war he simply BANned the rotations and that’s it. And also thank him, because maybe thanks to him YOU were born into this world.