Military Review

The National Interest: Should America be worried about “Almaty”?

143
Appearance of a new tank T-14 “Armata” became a real sensation. Since the appearance of the first data on the development of this machine, discussions have not stopped. It is noteworthy that not only Russian experts and amateurs of military equipment argue. The new Russian tank attracts attention abroad. The result is curious press releases.


30 in May, The National Interest published the American edition of Robert Farley’s article entitled Russia's Mighty T-14 Armata Tank: Should America Be Worried? (“The mighty Russian tank“ Armata ”: should America worry?”). The author of this publication is an adjunct professor at the Patterson School of Diplomacy and International Trade. Holding this position, R. Farley deals with issues of national and international security, including studying new military equipment. Thus, the recent publication in the American edition is of great interest.

The National Interest: Should America be worried about “Almaty”?
Tank T-14 "Armata". Photos Ru.wikipedia.org, Vitaly V. Kuzmin


At the beginning of his article, the author notes that the new Russian tank, which is part of the family of promising armored vehicles, really attracted attention. However, he has a question: is all this hype justified? This is exactly what the American specialist tried to figure out.

Earlier, The National Interest has already published several articles on new Russian developments in the field of armored vehicles. According to R. Farley, the Armat’s new family of equipment has little to do with previous Russian developments in this field. All these features of the new tank, as well as the very fact of its existence, lead to legitimate questions: is it worth it for the United States to worry about “Almaty” and how exactly should this concern be? Already, the new tank looks impressive. It is unlikely that he will face in the future in battle with American armored vehicles, but do not forget about the possible impact on the international arms market.

To assess the prospects for new technology you need to examine the available information. This is what Farley did. He recalls that the Armata project is developing a whole family of armored vehicles for various purposes, built on the basis of a common chassis. This feature of the project should improve various aspects of the operation of serial machines. In addition, according to the American specialist, the influence of the Israeli tank Merkava is noticeable in the Russian project. This fact is the key to understanding what the Russian military wants.

R. Farley gives a list of the main advantages of the Armata family tank project. It is a modern powerful armor, uninhabited tower and crew compartment of high security. It is noted that special attention to the level of crew protection indicates the desire of the military to preserve the life and health of the crew.

The author of the publication in The National Interest believes that the flexibility of the Armata family of equipment can provide him with a high export potential. Different customers have different requirements for technology, and the use of a common platform will allow you to build machines with the desired characteristics. In practice, this means that armies will be able to order equipment that best meets their requirements, for example, in a tank configuration for a so-called. conflict of low intensity or in the version of the "classic" main battle tank.

Then R. Farley makes an attempt to analyze the state of Russian tank construction. He admits that Russia can produce armored vehicles in large quantities. This, among other things, makes it possible to conclude multiple export contracts. However, it should be noted that the potential of the industry may be the subject of controversy. The fact is that in the early nineties, Russian enterprises massively built T-80 and T-90 tanks. The financial problems of the state by the end of the nineties led to the fact that only one tank remained in the series.

An additional reason for doubt is the breakdown of the T-14 tank at the Victory Parade rehearsal. According to R. Farley, this may be evidence of some of the political needs of the administration of V. Putin, but not proof of the high quality of the assembly of equipment. Indeed, the T-90 has established itself as a good and reliable armored vehicle, but in the case of the Armata, there are still reasons for doubt.

A typical problem of the Russian defense industry, according to R. Farley, is personnel issues. The workers of defense enterprises are aging, and the search for new personnel is associated with certain problems. Due to the dependence of the country's economy on the mining industry, other industries are unattractive for young professionals. At the same time, Russia maintains a good position in the international arms market, although this success is primarily associated with the modernization of old designs.

Also, the “Armata” project is associated with some production and technological risks. The most interesting features of the project are also complex in terms of production. R. Farley notes that the T-80 and T-90 tanks inherited much from the older T-72. The continuity of the new "Almaty" is much lower, which can accordingly affect the complexity of mastering production.

Russia has enough time to solve all the existing problems. Nevertheless, in the event of the emergence of new unexpected obstacles, in the opinion of the author of the publication in The National Interest, the situation with the new tank may become similar to the current state of the PAK FA project. R. Farley recalls that just a year ago, a promising Russian fighter was considered the most dangerous representative of its class in the world, not inferior in performance to the American F-22 and having a lower cost. Now the situation looks different. Russia is forced to cut plans for the purchase of this technology, and the Indian Air Force expressed various complaints about the project of joint development of a fifth-generation fighter.

In the past three decades, there have been intense debates about tank prospects. Existing machines, as rightly noted, do not always have the capabilities that the military would like to have. A typical main battle tank is heavy, noisy, visible and expensive to operate. Many modern conflicts require different qualities, primarily mobility and secrecy. Thus, it no longer makes sense to study and discuss hypothetical battles with the participation of the T-72 and M1A1 tanks at the European theater of operations.

However, in some cases, tanks retain their combat potential. Such equipment still plays an important role in the battles in Iraq or Afghanistan. In addition, R. Farley notes the successful use of tanks by Russian troops in Chechnya, Georgia and Ukraine.

At the same time, the author of the publication Russia's M-T-14 Armata Tank: Should America Be Worried? Emphasizes the experience of the operation of Israeli Merkava tanks. These vehicles retain a leading role in operations conducted in Lebanon or the Gaza Strip. This suggests that tanks with a high level of crew protection and good firepower, such as the Armata, still have great prospects.

R. Farley believes that the United States should think about the creation of a new main tank. The existing M1A2 Abrams retains a dominant position, but still needs to be replaced. Nevertheless, it is not yet possible to say that the Russian T-14 tank is a worthy reason for the development and construction of a direct replacement for the Abrams. A more pressing issue is the creation of a new infantry fighting vehicle to replace the aging M2 / M3 Bradley.


Tank T-14 "Armata". PhotoNationalinterest.org, Wikimedia Commons, Vitaly V. Kuzmin


What are the prospects of "Almaty" in the international arms market? Nicholas K. Gvozdev, whose articles are also published in The National Interest, suggests that in the future Russia may become an “arsenal of autocracy,” and the new Russian tank is capable of seriously affecting the world market. The manufacturer “Almaty”, the corporation “Uralvagonzavod”, is already studying the demand and is going to sell such equipment to various states of Central Asia or Egypt.

R. Farley does not exclude such transactions. However, he notes that after the end of the Cold War, the number of tanks exported by Russia was significantly reduced. So, India became the main buyer of T-90 tanks. Other countries have ordered less of this technology. Deliveries of new technology to the Indian military are now also in question. Earlier, the Russian industry supplied finished machines and assembly kits. Over the next few decades, the Indian army plans to switch to domestic armored vehicles. India spent a lot of time and effort to create its own Arjun tank, which may raise doubts about the possibility of ordering Russian T-14.

China has not been producing tanks for export for several years. For its army, the Chinese industry is building tanks "Type 99", which by their characteristics are close to the T-90. In addition, there is reason to believe that Chinese equipment is cheaper than Russian. So far there is no information about the development of China tank level Russian "Armata". At the same time, Russian tank builders have already expressed their concerns about a hypothetical contract for the supply of T-14 vehicles to China. The industry of this country is known for its zeal in copying foreign technology. Thus, by copying Armata, China will cease to be a profitable customer and turn into a serious competitor.

The American expert believes that the most important thing about the influence of “Almaty” on the market lies not in possible contracts. The anxiety associated with the transformation of Russia into an “arsenal of autocracy” leads to some conclusions. Thus, the United States, despite the political situation, continues to sell various autocratic weapons and military equipment. At the same time, Russia has advantages in the case of some similar countries, since it ignores their political position. Nevertheless, the number of such countries that prefer Russian weapons to American ones is constantly being reduced by changing the position and views of the United States.

Russia is updating its armored forces. At the same time, measures are being taken to develop the naval fleet and air force. The ability of the industry to cope with its tasks raises serious doubts. According to R. Farley, the successful implementation of all plans is hindered by the fact that Russia has to pay for active actions in Ukraine and the "occupation of Crimea." In addition, absurd programs such as the restoration of production of Tu-160 bombers may interfere with the implementation of plans.

Export prospects of the tank "Armata" are of great interest. If Russian designers succeed in creating a relatively cheap combat vehicle with high performance, then it will be able to win market share from other armor manufacturers. Nevertheless, it is still not completely clear whether the Russian defense industry will be able to cope with the task and create a combat vehicle with the required characteristics.

It is necessary to take into account that at the moment the amount of confirmed information about the Armata project leaves much to be desired. All this does not allow to fully assess the prospects of the new tank. As a result, at the moment all specialists and interested public are forced to operate with assumptions, unconfirmed information, etc.

A recent article by Robert Farley is a clear confirmation of current trends. Without the necessary information, the American expert is trying to speculate, which, however, may not correspond to reality. In addition, some points of the article “Mighty Russian tank“ Armata ”: should America be worried?” Suggest that its author does not fully use even open information. It should also be noted political implications of the publication, expressed in constant, including not always justified, criticism of Russian projects.

Nevertheless, the publication of The National Interest is of some interest, as it vividly demonstrates one of the points of view that exist abroad. It is obvious that in the USA and other foreign countries there are other views, but the article by R. Farley perfectly illustrates the most interesting opinions about the new Russian project.


Russia's Mighty T-14 Armata Tank: Should America Be Worried?
http://nationalinterest.org/feature/russias-mighty-t-14-armata-tank-should-america-be-worried-12999
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  1. Kibalchish
    Kibalchish 5 June 2015 05: 55
    +9
    Obviously, the hornet’s nest was stirred up - in the West they started talking about developing their new tank.
    1. Malkor
      Malkor 5 June 2015 06: 47
      28
      Is the T-90 not successful in exporting? Then abrams is a complete failure, something pin_dos completely lies. And the fact that Abrams dominates is complete crap.
      1. Malkor
        Malkor 5 June 2015 06: 50
        +4
        this is a challenge to the campaign
        1. Victor-M
          Victor-M 5 June 2015 11: 16
          +4
          Quote: Malkor
          this is a challenge to the campaign

          Abrams.
        2. Victor-M
          Victor-M 5 June 2015 11: 46
          +9
          Here is the Challenger

          And this I say "Abrams" laughing

          This is for you to compare.
          1. Malkor
            Malkor 5 June 2015 11: 54
            -2
            may be ))))
        3. rehev931
          rehev931 6 June 2015 22: 02
          0
          Challenger over the gun wicket! laughing
      2. Malkor
        Malkor 5 June 2015 06: 51
        +4
        Bradley is also on fire
        1. diver1977
          diver1977 5 June 2015 07: 31
          16
          Inappropriate, I think. The photo shows a man, a military man. This is never funny, and not funny, even if he is at least thrice American.
          Quote: Malkor
          Bradley is also on fire
          1. Malkor
            Malkor 5 June 2015 07: 44
            32
            Military, but maybe not a man, but an accomplice of the Ukronazists.
            And war is never funny.
            200000 civilians in Iraq killed these military pin_dos, it is doubtful that they are human
            1. iv_v virtual 3
              iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 11
              -52 qualifying.
              Oh you bunny.

              "The site is strictly prohibited:

              .

              b) Inciting ethnic hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, Khokhlyandiya, Jew, USA, bulbash, Talaponets, chock, khachik, Azerbaijani, cross-eyed, b, Rashka (in general, the mention of Russia and Russianness in a derogatory form) and other similar turns of unnatural speech "

              It is very successful, it seems to me that your statements, according to the site moderators, are not "incitement". At least, judging by the "face" of the site.
              1. Malkor
                Malkor 5 June 2015 08: 21
                36
                I'm not a bunny
                Nazi is not a person and does not have a nationality
                I express doubt that Nazi accomplices are human
                1. iv_v virtual 3
                  iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 31
                  -36 qualifying.
                  You should check which list you are on.
                  1. Ezhaak
                    Ezhaak 5 June 2015 10: 50
                    +5
                    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                    You should check which list you are on.

                    Take it easy, sofa warrior, hiding his name and place of residence. Here and their warriors more than enough.
                    As a rule, if a soldier has nothing to say, he looks for a reason to cling. The reason has nothing to do with the topic of the article. From my point of view, this is called "trolling".
                    I put a minus for trolling.
                    1. iv_v virtual 3
                      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 11: 34
                      -19 qualifying.
                      You can’t poke fun already.

                      I clung to a specific phrase about burning people. The position of Malkor completely repeats the position of various scum about the fire in Odessa last year. I do not consider this permissible.

                      You also do not agree with the rules of the site?
                      1. Ezhaak
                        Ezhaak 5 June 2015 11: 55
                        +9
                        Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                        I clung to a specific phrase about burning people.

                        No one laughed at a burning man! do not lie, my dear.
                        Malkor SU Today, 06:51 ↑
                        Bradley is also on fire
                      2. iv_v virtual 3
                        iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 12: 25
                        -9
                        Quote: diver1977
                        The person is on the photo.
                        ,

                        Quote: Malkor
                        dos, it is doubtful that they are humans


                        I am not tolerant of such statements.
                2. Terrible ensign
                  Terrible ensign 5 June 2015 14: 56
                  +1
                  Hello, first sort out your membership in all kinds of lists before recommending anyone to do anything. Virtual you are our ...
              2. igorka357
                igorka357 5 June 2015 16: 47
                0
                And here I completely agree and support!
                1. iv_v virtual 2
                  iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 17: 17
                  -8
                  Who exactly? Better quote.
                2. iv_v virtual 2
                  iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 17: 17
                  -4
                  Who exactly? Better quote.
            2. candy wrapper13
              candy wrapper13 5 June 2015 08: 38
              +7
              "The site is strictly prohibited:
              b) Inciting ethnic hatred. The use of words and derivatives such as: crest (former resident of Krajina, lives outside of it), Hohland (homeland of Ukrainians, non-Ukrainians, former residents Ukrainians tongue comic humor laughing ), a Jew (nationality ????), USA (country ???), Azerbaijani (nationality ????), cross-eyed (a person with slanting eyes) - wassat -mog YOU something SEEMS ???You do not consume krainsky nonsense? wink
              1. iv_v virtual 3
                iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 43
                -12 qualifying.
                Read the rules yourself. Understand how AutoCorrect works on a site.
            3. Altona
              Altona 5 June 2015 10: 31
              +3
              Quote: iv_v virtual 3
              b) Inciting ethnic hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, Khokhlyandiya, Jew, USA, bulbash, Talaponets, chock, khachik, Azerbaijani, cross-eyed, b, Rashka (in general, the mention of Russia and Russianness in a derogatory form) and other similar turns of unnatural speech "

              --------------------------
              For me, a short nickname based on ethnicity is not an insult, but a vivid expression of the mentality ... They are always used in everyday life, although often just the use of such a nickname is also included in everyday racism ... A normal person takes it calmly ... "Seriously , did you want to call me a redneck, a goof or a cattle, did you think to offend me? On the contrary, I wear these nicknames with pride, "they say in the southern states of the USA ...
              1. iv_v virtual 3
                iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 10: 45
                -5
                A quote was given from the forum rules. Your attitude to nicknames is your personal choice and cannot extend to the norms of communication with others.
            4. Victor-M
              Victor-M 5 June 2015 11: 18
              13
              Quote: iv_v virtual 3
              Oh you bunny.

              The promotion of piderastia is also prohibited by law, you are our nasty. laughing
              1. iv_v virtual 3
                iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 11: 19
                -16 qualifying.
                Are you a minor bestial?
                1. Victor-M
                  Victor-M 5 June 2015 12: 28
                  +2
                  Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                  Are you a minor bestial?

                  Why do you want to share your experience? wink laughing
                  1. iv_v virtual 3
                    iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 13: 05
                    -3
                    The word "bunny" does not cause any worries for me.
                    1. Victor-M
                      Victor-M 5 June 2015 17: 05
                      +2
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                      The word "bunny" does not cause any worries for me.

                      What can not be said about the "bunny". laughing
            5. major124
              major124 5 June 2015 15: 18
              +2
              What is there in words: crest, Jew and Azerbaijani?
          2. THE_SEAL
            THE_SEAL 5 June 2015 14: 33
            -4
            Quote: Malkor
            Military, but maybe not a man, but an accomplice of the Ukronazists.
            And war is never funny.
            200000 civilians in Iraq killed these military pin_dos, it is doubtful that they are human

            Are you a judge or something? The American in the frame is a living person. Fulfilled the order of his superiors. So our contingent in Afghanistan (1979-1989) can be recorded in the Nazis with this approach. In Afghanistan, a million civilians died.
            Such fighters with dill, being captured by them, begin to bleat that they didn’t mean it. That all Ukrainians are not fascists, etc. Objectively need to look at things. Not all Germans are Nazis, not all Italians are fascists, not all Americans are. Politicians are not doing good things. And from the side of ordinary Ukrainian warriors, shells and mines often arrive without fuses. The order is executed, but without harm. Another thing is the national battalions, where by the way I saw a guy with a beard from Moscow, who, according to him, went to fight Putin's Imperialism.
            1. igorka357
              igorka357 5 June 2015 16: 50
              -1
              That's right, totally agree, order is order!
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. aws4
              aws4 6 June 2015 03: 12
              +2
              are you an officer of the Ukrainian army?
            4. tupolev-95
              tupolev-95 6 June 2015 10: 43
              +1
              We have seen many times that dill begins to bleat when captured. About a kid from Moscow, events in Ukraine showed very well who is who in Russia and all these guys who care about banderlogs in one way or another should pray for the damned totalitarian Putin regime, because only thanks to him they haven’t yet been swept in the streets, but everything has its time. About the shells without fuses tell the residents of Donbass, they probably don’t know or most likely just don’t have time to notice, with a fuse or without a shell flying.
          3. igorka357
            igorka357 5 June 2015 16: 45
            +7
            Listen dear, I don’t like Americans ... but did you serve in the army? If the command orders you to go on the attack on the city .. where a bunch of civilians are hiding in basements and houses ... you refuse ... you’ll begin to refer what they may suffer ... drop your weapon and don’t go, in this case the road is in one direction in wartime! A military man has an order, and failure to comply with it is very strictly punishable by a tribunal, I don’t know how they are, but we have it in peacetime very tough, and in wartime, cowardice-desertion-betrayal ... is punished only in one way .. the highest !!! I ask you not to minus much ..))) but this is the essence of a military man, and remember .. the war starts not military, and in every herd there is a black sheep!
        2. kenig1
          kenig1 5 June 2015 08: 43
          14
          About the Germans killed near Moscow in 1941, still cry.
          1. iv_v virtual 3
            iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 09: 20
            -28 qualifying.
            The actions of the Reich in 1941 were declared criminal by international consensus, including Germany, which was formalized in the sentences of the Nuremberg Tribunal. Any US actions were not criminalized. The tribunals for these actions are held mainly in the format of talk shows on Russian TV. Separately, I note that

            1. The Wehrmacht soldier in the West is considered to be the victims of the Nazi regime. Their death is a tragedy, as well as the death of other WWII victims, with the discount that they were not non-combatants. The Wehrmacht, especially its rank-and-file composition, unlike the SS (except for the Waffen-SS), the leadership of the NSDAP, the SD and the Gestapo, was not recognized as a criminal organization. In Nuremberg, no one laid the responsibility for the crimes of the political leadership of the Reich on the 18-year-old German guys who had lived under Hitler since the 3rd grade.

            2. In the event of an international consensus regarding the actions of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine and an international tribunal in this regard, Russian soldiers will most likely not be recognized as criminals. No one (most likely) will hold the 18-year-old Russian guys who have been living under Putin for 3 years responsible for the (alleged) crimes of the country's political leadership.
            1. Altona
              Altona 5 June 2015 10: 23
              16
              Quote: iv_v virtual 3
              2. In the event of an international consensus regarding the actions of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine and an international tribunal in this regard, Russian soldiers will most likely not be recognized as criminals. No one (most likely) will hold the 18-year-old Russian guys who have been living under Putin for 3 years responsible for the (alleged) crimes of the country's political leadership.

              ------------------------------
              What "consensus" is this passage born with in your head? Firstly, 18-year-old guys in Russia are just finishing school, and secondly, why should they fight in Donbass (I am silent that at this age they do not even have a normal military profession) ... Thirdly, if in Donbass Russian citizens are at war, then they do it on their own initiative and their age is far from 18 ...
              1. iv_v virtual 3
                iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 10: 36
                -23 qualifying.
                Quote: Altona
                nor do it on their own initiative

                This is the position of the leadership of the Russian Federation at the moment. She can change. In the Crimea, as you know, Russian military personnel appeared about a year after the events of February-March 2014.

                Quote: Altona
                What "consensus" is this passage born with in your head?

                By consensus, the rank and file are not responsible for the actions of the commander in chief.
                If you have read Mr. Farley's article, you know that "The Russian Army has used tanks <...> now in Ukraine" is perceived by this author as a well-known fact. He's not the only one who thinks so. If it suddenly turns out that Mr. Farley is right, and Mr. Lavrov is lying, then it turns out that the persons who gave the Russian Army such an order are war criminals, incl. in accordance with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (Article 353, up to 20 years).

                Quote: Altona
                18-year-old boys in Russia are only just finishing school

                Glad for them. 21 year olds. This does not make sense.
                1. Cynic
                  Cynic 5 June 2015 10: 53
                  10
                  Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                  In the Crimea, as you know, Russian military personnel appeared about a year after the events of February-March 2014.

                  Nah, we don’t know. They were there and will be.
                  I remember our Defense Ministry voiced the figure of 25 ... 000 thousand troops of the Russian Federation at the time of the known events.
                  Base Black Sea Fleet however.
                  Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                  perceived by this author as a well-known fact.

                  Yeah, reinforced concrete argument _ Everyone knows that!
                  When asked about confirmation, usually _ Why. This is already known to everyone!
                  Although, at least, not everyone. For example, to me, my relatives, acquaintances ...
                  Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                  it turns out that those who gave

                  For the sake of interest, find out _ A permission of the Federation Council on the use of the RF Armed Forces outside the borders of the Republic of Belarus from 2008. effective or how?
                  By the way, if the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are already there, then what caused the panic on Urkain after the announcement of the recent extraordinary meeting of the Federation Council?
                  wink
                  1. iv_v virtual 3
                    iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 11: 15
                    -19 qualifying.
                    Quote: Cynic
                    Base Black Sea Fleet however

                    You should have seen the film "Crimea, the Way to the Homeland". "Polite people" were not part of the Black Sea Fleet. The actions of the RF Armed Forces went far beyond the agreements on the deployment of the RF Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.
                    Quote: Cynic
                    perceived by this author as a well-known fact.

                    Is this too complicated for you? People you know may have opinions that do not coincide with those of Mr. Farley. Nevertheless, I doubt that your acquaintances can claim the "international consensus". They should ask what countries and organizations consider Crimea to be a subject of the Russian Federation.
                    Quote: Cynic
                    And the permission of the Federation Council on the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation outside the borders of the Republic of Belarus from 2008. effective or how?
                    By the way, if the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are already there, then what caused the panic on Urkain after the announcement of the recent extraordinary meeting of the Federation Council?

                    It seems to me, or is your second question answering the first?
                    If possible, more details about 2008. I do not know that the Federation Council of the Russian Federation was asked about the Georgian events. If I am not mistaken, this was referred to as "strengthening the peacekeeping contingent."
                    No new decisions of the RF Federation Council will change the legal assessment of the actions of the RF Armed Forces from August 2014 (Ilovaisk) until the day of the meeting.
                    If the next Russian leadership sells the current leadership to gay Americans for a small price list (which, as it seems to many, the current leadership has no doubt), then support for the Federation Council of the Russian Federation can only increase the number of participants in this party.
                    1. Cynic
                      Cynic 5 June 2015 18: 08
                      +7
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                      The actions of the RF Armed Forces went far beyond the framework of agreements on the deployment of the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation in Crimea.

                      I understand that this upset you, the Kuevsky scenario for the democratization of Crimea failed.
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                      Is this too complicated a phrase for you?

                      That, just claims to knowledge always pin me up true truth . And these, not recognized. There were no such teams!
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                      Do not know

                      Your problems .
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 3
                      If the next leadership of Russia

                      No need to judge others by yourself. do not .
                    2. iv_v virtual 2
                      iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 18: 46
                      -9
                      I will answer for virtual 3
                      Quote: Cynic
                      I understand that it upset you, the Kuevsky scenario for the democratization of Crimea failed

                      I do not care, to be honest. I was not satisfied with the consequences for Russia.
                      Quote: Cynic
                      true truth

                      The word "truth" is not from my vocabulary. Farley's position is as he states.
                      Quote: Cynic
                      Your problems .

                      If there was no such permission - rather, yours.
                      Quote: Cynic
                      No need to judge others by yourself

                      Do you think Mr. Putin will have a calm old age? Happy for you. It remains to convince Mr. Putin of this.
                    3. Cynic
                      Cynic 6 June 2015 17: 39
                      +1
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      I was not satisfied with the consequences for Russia.

                      Are you worried about the consequences?
                      So everything has a price. Especially the action. By the way, inaction sometimes has a much higher price.
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      Farley’s position is what he says.

                      Hope this is true. But lately, the same people are changing their point of view, they just have to leave their public post.
                      And yet, as if I myself bring my own point of view.
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      If

                      And you read the law on defense and its interpretation. Very curious. It all comes down _ The right of the strong.
                      Here, I looked at the comments below _ pay attention to editing the law after 08.08.08
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      Do you think Mr. Putin will have a calm old age?

                      Are you worried about the calm old age of GDP ?!
                      Here I am, what, what, and already that ...
                      EBN, for example, lived quite calmly, and Gorbi only once got a bald head in my city, he no longer rides to us! Or do you hint that the more a man was a tyrant, the calmer he lived out his life? So this does not fit into your image of GDP.
                    4. iv_v virtual 2
                      iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 18: 43
                      -1
                      Quote: Cynic
                      So everything has a price

                      I have never heard that the issue of price was discussed.
                      Quote: Cynic
                      change their point of view, they just have to leave their public office

                      Do not understand. Are you talking about Farley?
                      Quote: Cynic
                      Law on Defense and its Interpretation

                      Read. Did you mean 10.2.1? Which of the cases indicated there can be adapted to the participation of the RF Armed Forces in the events in the east of Ukraine, if it suddenly turns out that it was? Let me remind you that the mention of the Federation Council of the Russian Federation was associated with the LPR / DPR, and not the Crimea.
                      Quote: Cynic
                      So this does not fit into your image of GDP

                      I don’t really understand how you managed to understand the post in this way.
                      Both BNU and MSG had a very tolerant reputation in the West and could not worry that on the day of the loss of immunity of the head of state, an FBI warrant would be issued for them. In the case of GDP, no one, including the Obama administration, can guarantee (even if he wants to). In my opinion, such a situation excludes the possibility of his lifetime retirement from his post and brings Russia's chances of developing the Argentinean (at best) option closer to 100%.
                    5. Cynic
                      Cynic 6 June 2015 19: 51
                      0
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      Did you mean 10.2.1?

                      No _
                      THE FEDERAL LAW
                      On amendments to the Federal Law "On Defense"
                      Adopted
                      State Duma
                      23 2009 October, the
                      .
                      President
                      Russian Federation
                      D.Medvedev
                      Read his interpretation.

                      Essentially _ You are truly Virtual.
                      I recalled _
                      Science is such - graphology.
                      Studying the character of a person in his handwriting.
                      They say even exact science. Like mathematics.
                      Curl to the left. Right - definitely.
                    6. iv_v virtual 2
                      iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 20: 14
                      -2
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      Did you mean 10.2.1?

                      Quote: Cynic
                      No_
                      THE FEDERAL LAW
                      On amendments to the Federal Law "On Defense"

                      Law N 252-FZ of 09.11.09 enters into force Article 10.1 and Clause 10.2.1 of the Law "On Defense"
                      Concentrate, read the "interpretations" and try again to answer the question, what relation this law may have to the events in eastern Ukraine.
                    7. Cynic
                      Cynic 7 June 2015 06: 22
                      0
                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      what relation this law can have to events in the east of Ukraine.

                      Detachment, but you are not a respected bot?
                    8. iv_v virtual 2
                      iv_v virtual 2 7 June 2015 08: 52
                      -1
                      Can't you read the law beyond the title? RAM issues?
                      In the head.

                      To amend the Federal Law of May 31, 1996 N 61-FZ "On Defense" the following changes:

                      1) article 10 2.1 add paragraph to read:

                      "2.1. In order to protect the interests of the Russian Federation and its citizens, maintain international peace and security, the formations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation can be used promptly outside the territory of the Russian Federation in accordance with generally recognized principles and norms of international law, international treaties of the Russian Federation and this Federal Law for solving the following tasks:

                      1) repulsion of an armed attack on the formations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, other troops or bodies deployed outside the territory of the Russian Federation;

                      2) repulsing or preventing an armed attack on another state that has requested the Russian Federation to do so;

                      3) the protection of citizens of the Russian Federation outside the territory of the Russian Federation from an armed attack on them;

                      4) combating piracy and ensuring the safety of navigation. ";

                      2) add Article 10.1 follows:

                      "Article 10.1. Operational use of the formations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation outside the territory of the Russian Federation

                      1. The decision on the operational use outside the territory of the Russian Federation in accordance with Clause 2.1 of Article 10 of this Federal Law of the formations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation shall be taken by the President of the Russian Federation on the basis of the relevant resolution of the Council of the Federation of the Federal Assembly of the Russian Federation.

                      2. The total number of formations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, their areas of operations, their tasks and the period of use of these formations are determined by the President of the Russian Federation.

                      3. The acquisition of formations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation by military personnel, civilian personnel, provision of material and technical means and the provision of medical and other types of support to their military personnel and civilian personnel shall be carried out by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

                      4. The decision on the early withdrawal of formations of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation shall be made by the President of the Russian Federation or, on his instructions, by the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. "

                      If we assume that "The Russian Army has used tanks <...> now in Ukraine", then what does this law have to do with what is happening?
      3. AID.S
        AID.S 5 June 2015 22: 01
        +3
        "If possible, more details about 2008. I do not know that the Federation Council of the Russian Federation was asked about the Georgian events."

        If you are “not in the know”, then “you need to check in the office.” More details - there was an attack by the Georgian army on the peacekeeping contingent of the RF Armed Forces.
      4. iv_v virtual 2
        iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 22: 20
        -4
        Quote: Cynic
        And the permission of the Federation Council on the use of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation outside the borders of the Republic of Belarus from 2008. effective or how?


        Apparently the answer is no.
      5. Cynic
        Cynic 6 June 2015 17: 45
        0
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
        Apparently the answer is no.

        Is Vicki silent?
  • Altona
    Altona 5 June 2015 12: 01
    10
    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    This is the position of the leadership of the Russian Federation at the moment. She can change. In the Crimea, as you know, Russian military personnel appeared about a year after the events of February-March 2014.

    -------------------------------
    As I know, in the Crimea, the Russian military was always included in the Black Sea Fleet of the Russian Federation, within the limit of 25 people, not getting much of this limit ... During the events of 000, about 2014 people were simply transferred, which in general remains within the limit of 7500 people ... I don’t know anything else, the rest can be commented on as part of media speculation ...
    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    By consensus, the rank and file are not responsible for the actions of the commander in chief.
    If you have read Mr. Farley's article, you know that "The Russian Army has used tanks <...> now in Ukraine" is perceived by this author as a well-known fact. He's not the only one who thinks so. If it suddenly turns out that Mr. Farley is right, and Mr. Lavrov is lying, then it turns out that the persons who gave the Russian Army such an order are war criminals, incl. in accordance with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (Article 353, up to 20 years).

    --------------------
    Officially, the commander-in-chief did not give any orders and officially stated this, if "as you know" other official sources, then refer to them ... An article of any gentleman is his private opinion and he can state anything in it in "order of delirium" ...

    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    Glad for them. 21 year olds. This does not make sense.

    ---------------------
    What does not change the meaning? That is, Russian (Abkhazian, Ossetian, Serbian, French) cannot, on its own initiative, stand up for the people of Donbass, and the American (Polish, Czech, German, Swedish) can fight with arms in hand on the side of Kiev?
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 13: 03
      -7
      Quote: Altona
      . During the events of 2014, about 7500 people were simply transferred, which in general remained within the 25000 people limit


      March 2014, cit. by http://top.rbc.ru/politics/09/03/2015/54fdb8879a79470d8658f970, press conference in Novo-Ogaryovo

      "If we make such a decision [on the use of troops] - only to protect Ukrainian citizens."

      Pay attention to the future tense.

      March 2015, cit at http://www.aif.ru/dontknows/actual/1467676, Crimea: the path to the Homeland:

      "on the night of February 22-23 <...> I <...> said that <...> we have to begin work on returning Crimea to Russia"

      "Therefore, I gave instructions and instructions to the Ministry of Defense - what to hide - under the guise of reinforcing the protection of our military facilities in the Crimea, to transfer there the special forces of the Main Intelligence Directorate and the Marine Corps, paratroopers"

      It is not difficult to notice, the position of the Commander-in-Chief has changed somewhat over the year.

      There can be different opinions regarding the legal integrity of the described situation. However, in my opinion, it is quite realistic to expect that statements by the leadership of the Russian Federation on the Ukrainian topic can also be disavowed, depending on certain circumstances.

      Quote: Altona
      The article of any gentleman is his private opinion and he can state anything in it in the "order of delirium"

      Of course. However, it is worth taking into account the fact that the opinion of Mr. Farley on this issue is widespread, including among the leaders of most countries - manufacturers of military electronics.

      Quote: Altona
      Russian (Abkhazian, Ossetian, Serbian, French) cannot, on its own initiative, stand up for the people of Donbass, and American (Polish, Czech, German, Swedish) can fight with arms in hand on the side of Kiev?


      In this case, it is important on whose side the internationally (including the Russian Federation) recognized government of Ukraine is. If the "people of Donbass" are not somehow withdrawn from Ukrainian jurisdiction, then the position of the Ukrainian government on this issue will remain the only one that matters.
      1. Altona
        Altona 5 June 2015 20: 50
        +3
        Quote: iv_v virtual 3
        There can be different opinions regarding the legal integrity of the described situation. However, in my opinion, it is quite realistic to expect that statements by the leadership of the Russian Federation on the Ukrainian topic can also be disavowed, depending on certain circumstances.

        ---------------------------
        Legally, the situation is impeccable - the results of the referendum were approved by the legislative assembly of the Autonomous Republic of Crimea and signed by the then legitimate President of Ukraine Viktor Fedorovich Yanukovych, that's all, the curtain ... that the legal procedure for separating Kosovo from Serbia is lame on all legs of any legality, you can check and is actually a voluntarist act, issued and signed by a handful of "legislators" and supported by KFOR bayonets ...
      2. iv_v virtual 2
        iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 21: 13
        -6
        Specify the details.
        So far, Russia has not recognized the sovereignty of Kosovo. In this regard, the appeal to the Kosovo precedent from Russia looks rather pale. Representatives of countries that have recognized Kosovo, in turn, argue that recognition of sovereignty and annexation are two big differences. The United States, as far as I know, did not declare Kosovo the 51st state of increased sacredness.

        As for the "legal procedure", you should familiarize yourself with the position of the President of the RF Constitutional Court on this issue.
        http://www.rg.ru/2015/03/23/zorkin-site.html
        “In this regard, Russia could not help but recall another, relatively new, Fundamental Principle of International Law, which has not yet been formally introduced into the UN Charter, but is generally recognized and is already widely applied. Namely, the Duty to Protect Principle, which requires the international community of direct protection of the citizens of a country that grossly violates the fundamental rights of its own citizens, including the right to life and security, and does not want or cannot stop these violations of rights. "

        Any person related to jurisprudence, after the phrase about the "new, Fundamental Principle of international law, which has not yet been officially introduced" about the "legal procedure" need not be told. A person who has read the entire article quoted can no longer be told about the existence of the Constitutional Court in Russia.
      3. Altona
        Altona 6 June 2015 10: 53
        +3
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
        “In this regard, Russia could not help but recall another, relatively new, Fundamental Principle of International Law, which has not yet been formally introduced into the UN Charter, but is generally recognized and is already widely applied. Namely, the Duty to Protect Principle, which requires the international community of direct protection of the citizens of a country that grossly violates the fundamental rights of its own citizens, including the right to life and security, and does not want or cannot stop these violations of rights. "

        -----------------------
        Nonsense ... Do you want to arrange Debaltseve in Crimea or what? Formulate the thought more clearly ... Or is Ukraine a beacon of legality for you? That is, contrary to its own Constitutions, it sends the entire army to the people ... You tell me, what do you want in the end-war of all against all? Under the guise of "legal" procedures ... you correctly designated yourself as a "virtual", because virtually anything can be assumed, and politics is the art of the possible ...
      4. iv_v virtual 2
        iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 12: 06
        -3
        Quote: Altona
        This makes no sense.

        Sorry, this is the direct speech of the chairman of the Constitutional Court of the Russian Federation. The "principle of law" which "has not been officially introduced" closes, in my opinion, the legal theme.
        Quote: Altona
        Do you want to arrange Debaltseve in Crimea or what?

        I would have been more comfortable with Dnepropetrovsk or Kharkov.
        But in general, I would be happy with any options that would cost Russia for free. I would consider this a domestic problem.
        The Debaltsev option is obviously not free for Russia.

        Your idea that the police of the 2 millionth region cannot cope with one train of marginals (and what was it?) Without the introduction of troops from a neighboring state does not seem indisputable to me.
        Quote: Altona
        sends the whole army to the people

        Yes, they did it. If I were a citizen of Ukraine, I would probably be bothered.
        By the way, Mr. Kadyrov, and not he alone, has something to remember about the relationship between the citizens of the Russian Federation and the Russian army in the context of the "constitutional order."
        Quote: Altona
        You say what you want in the terminal

        I don't know, to be honest. There are no win / win solutions anymore. It seems to me obvious that if Mr. Poroshenko is counting on Euro-Atlantic integration, then he will have to somehow "throw off" the balance of both Crimea and the DPR and LPR - with such baggage the EU and NATO will not be accepted. On the other hand, for integration, a lot of things need to be done that is not being done, so, apparently, he does not want so much.
        At the same time, there is an opinion that Crimea will not become a region of Russia until the position of the US State Department on this issue changes. So believes the leadership of Gazprom, Lukoil, Russian Railways, Sberbank, Aeroflot and most other large companies, which (so far) have something to lose. I do not expect this to happen in the foreseeable future.
        I fully understand that there may be people on the Internet who disagree with the lawyers of the above organizations. However, in my opinion, the opinion of people who are responsible for their decisions with money is of great interest.
        If everything remains as it is, then all these people (both in the Crimea and in the east of Ukraine), apparently, were not lucky. Like the Palestinians.
        Quote: Altona
        politics is the art of the possible ...

        That is what a completely drop dead masterpiece of political art looks like.
      5. Cynic
        Cynic 6 June 2015 17: 57
        +2
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
        So believes the management of companies ...

        The same seven-bankers passed.
        More precisely she passed .
        But on Urkain its version is carried out _ Khodorkovsky was not convicted.
        Well, Yanukovych does not have the features of GDP.
      6. iv_v virtual 2
        iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 18: 56
        -1
        Quote: Cynic
        Taki Semibankirshchina passed

        This may be interpreted differently. 4 out of 5 listed companies are state-owned, 5th semi-state.
        There is an opinion that the noisy and brainless head of the Russian eagle is in parliament and TV, and the thieving, but therefore relatively sane and perceiving the question of the price of their actions - in the executive branch and state companies. Over the past year, a patriotic head has won a number of convincing victories, but the second head has so far managed to hold separate bridgeheads of common sense. I agree with you that her situation is unstable. However, while it is what it is.
        Quote: Cynic
        at Urkain Khodorkovsky <...> was not convicted

        Who, excuse me, do you consider Ukrainian Khodorkovsky?
      7. Cynic
        Cynic 6 June 2015 20: 01
        +2
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
        This may be interpreted differently. 4 out of 5 listed companies are state-owned, 5th semi-state.

        You can interpret as you like, though, you are already playing with reality.
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
        Who, excuse me, do you consider Ukrainian Khodorkovsky?

        He who survives, do you hear a lot about others? And the candidate is one EXCLUSIVE!
      8. iv_v virtual 2
        iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 20: 17
        -1
        Quote: Cynic
        You can interpret as you like

        The ownership structure of these companies is a fact, not an interpretation. And their absence in the Crimea - too.
        Quote: Cynic
        And the candidate is one EXCLUSIVE!

        No. And they are all very far from Khodorkovsky in 2003. But try to suggest your option.
  • Cynic
    Cynic 5 June 2015 10: 37
    16
    Quote: Altona
    What kind of "consensus" was born in the head ...

    By this _
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 5 June 2015 13: 36
    +4
    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    Wehrmacht soldier in the West is considered to be the victims of the Nazi regime. Their death is a tragedy, as well as the death of other WWII victims, with the discount that they were not non-combatants. The Wehrmacht, especially its rank-and-file composition, unlike the SS (except for the Waffen-SS), the leadership of the NSDAP, the SD and the Gestapo, was not recognized as a criminal organization.

    These groans are especially good about victims of the Nazi regime look. if you recall - who carried out the protection of concentration camps for prisoners of war. Say Stalag 301 / Z.
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 13: 59
      -6
      Quote: Alexey RA
      these lamentations about the victims of the Nazi regime

      This is not a moan. This is the position of the Nuremberg Tribunal, which the Russian legislator does not recommend revising.

      The Wehrmacht was not recognized as a criminal organization. The Soviet side (unsuccessfully) offered to recognize OKW and the General Staff as a criminal organization, but not the Wehrmacht as a whole.
      The war crimes you described were attributed by the tribunal to the leadership of the NSDAP, which ignored the 1929 Geneva Convention.

      The Stalag you mentioned was not organized by tankers - conscripts. Yes, they are guilty that they did not run away from the draft in Switzerland, but the tribunal considered this excusable, you know.
  • tupolev-95
    tupolev-95 6 June 2015 10: 53
    +2
    Do you not know when they were recognized as criminal? What is stupid? ” . Regarding the second point, perhaps not soon, but there will be consensus, there will certainly be, as in May 2.
    1. iv_v virtual 2
      iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 12: 11
      -1
      Sorry, I did not understand your post. What "them" are you talking about? Try to be clearer if you can. Try using spaces between words, by the way.
      1. tupolev-95
        tupolev-95 6 June 2015 17: 25
        +2
        The spaces between the words in my post do not differ from yours, wipe your eyes. The actions of the German military were recognized as criminal, the investigations and the courts were after the Victory, your words are consensus. So here we will come to him. Repetition is the mother of the doctrine.
        1. iv_v virtual 2
          iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 19: 01
          -1
          Quote: Tupolev-95
          yours, wipe your eyes.

          Check your monitor settings. There is no auto-insert space after punctuation marks.
          Quote: Tupolev-95
          The actions of the German military were recognized as criminal

          You should not add on your own the decisions of Nuremberg. The legislator does not approve of this.
          Quote: Tupolev-95
          So we will definitely come to him

          You should find out how many people died on the road last time. And to formulate what exactly you want to pay this price for.
          1. tupolev-95
            tupolev-95 8 June 2015 11: 28
            +2
            Apparently you have some kind of interpretation of the Second World War and Victory, apparently, close to Bandera. This is an erroneous version and it will be fixed.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. iv_v virtual 2
            iv_v virtual 2 8 June 2015 22: 02
            -1
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            its interpretation of the Second World War and Victory, apparently, is close to Bandera

            I do not know what is the interpretation of WWII by the "Bandera". To be honest, I don’t know if there are "Bandera" people in nature.
            Quote: Tupolev-95
            This is an erroneous version and it will be fixed.

            Is it like that? Will they pass another law on the only correct version? Oh well.

            Or do you still learn to put spaces and tell me this correct version? You can try, suddenly I learn something new. Only without slogans, and propaganda bullshit, if possible.
  • igorka357
    igorka357 5 June 2015 16: 51
    +4
    And about those that cry, they came to our land and our grandfathers hung them on the least pampered!
    1. iv_v virtual 2
      iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 18: 49
      -8
      I didn’t understand why it’s difficult for you to extend your quite reasonable position regarding professional soldiers of the US Army to Wehrmacht conscripts. The offender is not a kid in a tank near Moscow, but a politician who directed him there.
  • Banson
    Banson 5 June 2015 14: 05
    +7
    Quote: diver1977
    Inappropriate, I think. The photo shows a man, a military man. This is never funny, and not funny, even if he is at least thrice American.

    Why isn't it funny? Very much. They burned us in Odessa and Khatyn. They burned entire towns and villages of Viet Nam with napalm. And nothing - it's normal for them. So "Fried Tommy" is not a shame.
    1. diver1977
      diver1977 15 June 2015 15: 41
      0
      Quote: Banson
      Why isn't it funny? Very much. They burned us in Odessa and Khatyn. They burned entire towns and villages of Viet Nam with napalm. And nothing - it's normal for them. So "Fried Tommy" is not a shame.

      It is in the photo that a living man, a military man, is fulfilling an order. And what does Khatyn have to do with it? Why bring everything together? For all their abomination, the Americans respect one thing - they always respect the interests of their country and this must be learned from them. By any means, they promote their interests everywhere.
      And on the subject - a soldier is burning, and whoever he is - this is not funny.
  • igorka357
    igorka357 5 June 2015 17: 05
    +1
    Yes, it’s if my memory doesn’t fail me and not an American ... I’m clean Brit, but it doesn’t change whoever enjoys such pictures, he himself did not go far from the Nazis !!!
    1. Banson
      Banson 5 June 2015 17: 19
      +7
      Now, if your relatives were burned in some House of Trade Unions, I would see how you would start talking about this "pleasure". There would be a reassessment of values ​​in an instant. The enemy is burning in the photo. Our sworn, centuries-old enemy. The purpose of which is to destroy us. And burn as well. And therefore, you may not need to enjoy - but to be glad completely. Serves him right. He deserved it 100%. Good must be with fists m-sie. Otherwise, the world will quickly plunge into darkness.
      1. igorka357
        igorka357 5 June 2015 17: 39
        -1
        Yeah, well then maybe you think it’s right when the Chechens put photos and videos of our tormented and burned up boys ..? But we are enemies for them too ... we would like to believe! And yes ... I saw ... not relatives, of course, but very close friends, and after that I was not going to burn anyone alive!
        1. Banson
          Banson 5 June 2015 17: 52
          +1
          Quote: igorka357
          Yeah, well then maybe you think it’s right when the Chechens put up photos and videos of our tortured and burned up boys ..?

          From their point of view, right. Given their education and worldview. Because:
          Quote: igorka357
          We are enemies for them too ..

          But with ours - of course not. I am not Chechen. And therefore - there is no wrong.
          Quote: igorka357
          would love to believe!

          Blessed is he who believes.
          Quote: igorka357
          And yes ... I saw ... of course not relatives, but very close friends, and after that I was not going to burn anyone alive!

          So did not see. Or your very close friends were not burned alive. And remember the postulates. There are four of them:
          1. Good in relation to good = Good.
          2. Evil in relation to good = Evil.
          3. Evil in relation to evil = Good.
          4. Good in relation to evil = Evil.
          1. iv_v virtual 2
            iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 18: 58
            -9
            You perfectly illustrated Mr. Hitler's ideas about the struggle between Good and Evil, thank you.

            My friends, faced with a similar situation about their relative in Odessa, expressed great displeasure that this clown for some penny gesheft not only got into this bloody boil, but also set up his own family. As you can see, there are also sane people among relatives of supporters of Ukrainian federalization.
            Quote: Banson
            I'm not Chechen

            In this case, you should admit that the warrior of Allah, who shot at the English BMP, was inclined to do this just in Chechnya. You should also find out how many Russian citizens have been killed by British soldiers over the past 100 years. Moreover, there is an opinion that the soldiers of the British army are much less dangerous for the citizens of the Russian Federation than the soldiers of Allah shooting at them from RPGs. Perhaps your thoughts regarding Good and Evil need to be clarified.
            1. Banson
              Banson 5 June 2015 19: 12
              +3
              Quote: iv_v virtual 2
              You perfectly illustrated Mr. Hitler's ideas about the struggle between Good and Evil, thank you.

              Actually, Hitler has nothing to do with it. Where did you get the connection?
              Quote: iv_v virtual 2
              My friends, faced with a similar situation about their relative in Odessa, expressed great displeasure that this clown for some penny gesheft not only got into this bloody, but also set up his own family.

              Well, anything can happen of course. And all sorts of relatives. So they "loved" the murdered man so much that they approached everything with mathematical logic and personal interests at the head. Set up your family? Well, yes - of course I framed it to some extent. Involuntarily. Got into all this bloody? How did he get in? Did he burn himself or what? There was a protest action against the Kiev junta, which seized power through an armed coup d'etat. These people were locked in the house of trade unions and burned by supporters of the Kiev junta and degenerates who joined them, poorly guided by what was happening, but at the same time passionately "wished for change." No - it wasn't he who got in. They killed him. In a cruel and barbaric way.
              Quote: iv_v virtual 2
              As you can see, there are also sane people among relatives of supporters of Ukrainian federalization.

              You have strange ideas about sanity. Although you are from Ukraine, it’s excusable for you here. If there mothers of their children are sent to kill innocent people (and in fact themselves for slaughter) i.e. the strongest maternal instincts have either suppressed or wondered at your position in general.
              Quote: iv_v virtual 2
              In this case, you should admit that the warrior of Allah, who shot at the English BMP, was inclined to do this just in Chechnya. You should also find out how many citizens of the Russian Federation were killed by soldiers of the British army over the past 100 years. Moreover, there is an opinion that the soldiers of the British army are much less dangerous for the citizens of the Russian Federation than the soldiers of Allah shooting at them from RPGs.

              What does it have to do with it? And how does this contradict my words? The English BMP with all its contents is a very clear and obvious enemy. And I don’t feel sorry for him. The Chechens were not so long ago; now, through the efforts of politicians, they have become potential enemies. Not explicit. But potential. Well, in my love for the Chechens, I also wasn’t noticed.
              1. iv_v virtual 2
                iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 38
                -3
                Quote: Banson
                Actually, Hitler has nothing to do with it. Where did you get the connection?

                Your posts are reminiscent of a translation from German.
                Quote: Banson
                did he burn himself

                He is still alive, but this does not please everyone. Relatives of my friends take a not so small gesheft as the late activists you mentioned. They are more in terms of press conferences.
                Quote: Banson
                If there mothers of their children are sent to kill innocent people (and in fact themselves for slaughter)

                You described the situation in any warring army.

                Quote: Banson
                And here it is?

                Despite the fact that the people who killed the Russian soldiers (and, most likely, will kill more, a matter of time), and not only the soldiers, shoot people who have never crossed and never intersect with Russian soldiers. Nevertheless, you consider the second, not the first, to be your enemies. Perhaps you should tie it to a TV.
              2. Banson
                Banson 5 June 2015 19: 59
                +2
                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                You described the situation in any warring army.

                And here is it? The only similarity is that the degenerates traveling to the southeast of Ukraine are ideologically motivated. But unlike the idea of ​​a good and just defense of the Motherland from external aggression, which makes the professional conscript army so strong, the kids from the west of Ukraine are partly simply zombified with the Russian threat, murder and violence. Well, and partly their "motivation" is based on just unmotivated hatred for Russia and for everything Russian and Slavic. Even though they themselves are part of this Slavic world. Well, or they were in the recent past at any rate. Hatred and argesia, unmotivated, so to speak, is not the most necessary and "correct" feeling, so to speak. And far from the best representatives of the world of homo sapiens suffer from it. This is a dead end and hopeless path. Therefore, the results of their "struggle" are as follows.
                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                Despite the fact that the people who killed the Russian soldiers (and, most likely, will still kill, a matter of time), and not only the soldiers, shoot at people who have never crossed and never intersect with Russian soldiers. Nevertheless, you consider the second, not the first, to be your enemies.

                Will explain. First of all, with regard to the Chechens, I think I made myself clear. I have no love or other warm feelings for them. Well, that's at least. Formally, they are not our enemies now. And in fact, so far too (well, more or less so). Taking into account the censorship, we will not develop this topic yet. Secondly, there is a saying - "Intention is worse than action." At the moment, the intentions of the Anglo-Saxon world in relation to me and my country are quite clearly formulated (in political language e-sno), backed up by rather specific actions in relation to Russia, and personally they do not cause any questions or illusions to me. Yes, of course - they cannot fight us directly - the guts are thin. But this does not change their essence. To harm us, they use all the means available to them. This is enough to rejoice at how the crew of the British BMP burned down, don't you think? And in battles, we still intersected with them. Although not as often as people think about it. For the same Crimea, for example, in the 19th century.
              3. iv_v virtual 2
                iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 20: 29
                -3
                Quote: Banson
                professional draft army

                What is this about?
                Quote: Banson
                good and fair defense of the Motherland from external aggression ... The Russian threat

                You really do not see the connection in your words?
                Quote: Banson
                Hatred and argue, unmotivated, so to speak, is not the most necessary and "correct" feeling, so to speak. And far from the best representatives of the homo sapiens world suffer from it.

                I appreciate your self-irony.
                Quote: Banson
                The enemy is burning in the photo. Our sworn, centuries-old enemy. The purpose of which is to destroy us. And burn as well. <...> Serves him right. He deserves it 100%

                It is amazing how sharply you moved towards humanitarian values ​​in just three hours.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Ramzaj99
          Ramzaj99 5 June 2015 22: 03
          +4
          Quote: iv_v virtual 2
          You should also find out how many Russian citizens have been killed by British soldiers over the past 100 years.

          What do you think ... Who is worse?
          Majadhead who shot a Soviet soldier in Afghanistan.
          Or the Briton who gave him a weapon, taught him to shoot and paid money so that this majahid would go and kill ?????? !!
          For me, so second! And do not be cunning about a hundred years.
          Their hands are up to the elbow in the blood. Moreover, Russian blood.
          1. iv_v virtual 2
            iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 22: 49
            -3
            You do not confuse the British and Saudis, no?

            Regarding the events you described, there is a UNGA resolution A / RES / ES-6/2 of January 14.01.1980, XNUMX, which calls the incident "military intervention and interference in internal affairs." If we agree with the position of the UN, then the claims to the leadership of the USSR, to no one else.

            By invoicing the US government and Great Britain for Afghanistan, there is an opportunity to run into a counter claim for Vietnam. However, in the United States, as far as I know, Vietnam is considered purely its cant. It’s a good idea.

            In any case, even if we consider the actions of the governments of the United States and Great Britain in this conflict to be indisputable (and there are sufficient grounds for this), I do not think that claims to the Thatcher government should be addressed to a 19-year-old guy (86, it seems, year of birth) .

            By the way, it is relatively in order, if I found it correctly.
            http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-1368391/Karl-Hinnett-Soldier-set-ablaz

            e-Iraqi-mob-running-52-marathons-year-raise-money-burns-unit-saved-life.html

            Moreover, a comrade who made good use of the Molotov cocktail, or whatever it was, may not turn out to be a hypothetical "enemy" who bears "historical blame", but a concrete killer of specific Russian soldiers and civilians. In this scenario, your accents seem wild to me.
  • aws4
    aws4 6 June 2015 06: 23
    +2
    re-read all the comas did not find those who laughed ....
    1. iv_v virtual 2
      iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 09: 17
      -1
      A post right under your
  • tupolev-95
    tupolev-95 6 June 2015 10: 22
    +1
    It is a terrible sight, but no one invited this person there and in the company of other "people" he killed a lot of people, and the region, thanks to their "democratization", will blaze for a long time.
    1. 232OUTRB
      232OUTRB 28 October 2015 09: 47
      0
      Quote: Tupolev-95
      It is a terrible sight, but no one invited this person there and in the company of other "people" he killed a lot of people, and the region, thanks to their "democratization", will blaze for a long time.

      Judging by your words, in the army, you yourself did not serve "this man was not invited there."
  • flSergius
    flSergius 5 June 2015 09: 39
    +3
    Bradley is also on fire


    Burn-burn-it’s clear that it doesn’t go out !!

    Judging by the photo, if the crew member survives, he will fry the yays like the second rapist in the Voroshilov Arrow. I wanted to cut the dough, helping to steal someone else's oil, but I became a non-man good And there is nothing to write about lowering to the level of Svidomo in gloating, etc. Maybe they have good people who themselves are against the behavior of their government, but are unable to do anything and just live their own lives, but this one is definitely not one of them - he went to the recruiting station, knowing how much and for what he would be paid.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 5 June 2015 16: 59
      -4
      Your brother must have said so confidently straightforwardly for him ... the right word is disgusting! Our burnt guys in tanks, in Chechnya ... maybe they also went for money? Before writing, turn on your brains! It could be a regular conscript, not burning a desire to go to war, but having an order from the command, for the failure of which he would go to the tribunal! It feels like all the scribblers here did not serve in the army! So he’s willing to offend ... he’s terrifying!
      1. Banson
        Banson 5 June 2015 17: 24
        +7
        Quote: igorka357
        It could be an ordinary conscript, not eager to go to war, but having an order from the command, for the failure of which he would go to the tribunal!

        Dear - the United States currently has a classic mercenary army. The one that is often called "professional" which is nothing more than a falsification of facts. In the mercenary army, people serve money. Mercenary armies, in contrast to the draft army, are poorly suited to defend the homeland, but are also well suited for punitive and police operations abroad. In the photo is her classic swatch.
        1. igorka357
          igorka357 5 June 2015 17: 36
          -1
          Well, first of all, this is not an American, but in the second and last, even in the US Army at a certain time, a call is made ... can you imagine ..))?
          1. Banson
            Banson 5 June 2015 17: 47
            +7
            Quote: igorka357
            even in the US Army there is a call ... can you imagine ..))?

            It was once. During the Vietnam War. Not anymore. Because they just do not need him at the moment. This is the first. And secondly - do not preach here your ideas of rotten liberalism. This is me to the fact that even this person is a conscript. In our, Russian, correct socialist and democratic psychology, I would say (not just what is now in fact) law groups of people take precedence over the rights of one person. So, from the point of view of two warring superpowers, two public institutions in the photo the enemy is burning... And the point. Without relative to who he is in ordinary life and what political views he has. Because with all this, it is the enemy who shot and crushed its citizens on his Warrior BMP in a foreign country. Regardless of whether military or civil. And following your rotten liberal logic, you can easily justify and make any maniac a "normal guy". Any cattle is finished. And attempts to do this are being made constantly. So take care and have pity on your own. And let the enemies die.
            1. Ramzaj99
              Ramzaj99 5 June 2015 18: 19
              +3
              Quote: Banson
              So from the point of view of two warring superpowers, two public institutions, the enemy is burning in the photo. And the point. Without relative to who he is in ordinary life and what political views he has. Because with all this, it is the enemy who shot and crushed its citizens on his Warrior BMP in a foreign country.

              From me +
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. iv_v virtual 2
              iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 01
              -8
              Quote: Banson
              According to our, Russian, correct socialist and democratic psychology

              Fuck. My example regarding "sane people" does not concern you. I remove all questions.
              1. Banson
                Banson 5 June 2015 19: 15
                +2
                What's wrong? Maybe a mistake in your mind?
                1. iv_v virtual 2
                  iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 40
                  -2
                  Quote: Banson
                  What's wrong?

                  Very long to explain. And, most likely, it is useless.
            4. igorka357
              igorka357 6 June 2015 04: 16
              0
              At certain times carried out ..)) !!! You know how to read!
    2. 232OUTRB
      232OUTRB 28 October 2015 09: 52
      0
      Quote: flSergius
      Bradley is also on fire


      Burn-burn-it’s clear that it doesn’t go out !!

      Judging by the photo, if the crew member survives, he will fry the yays like the second rapist in the Voroshilov Arrow. I wanted to cut the dough, helping to steal someone else's oil, but I became a non-man good And there is nothing to write about lowering to the level of Svidomo in gloating, etc. Maybe they have good people who themselves are against the behavior of their government, but are unable to do anything and just live their own lives, but this one is definitely not one of them - he went to the recruiting station, knowing how much and for what he would be paid.

      And you don’t pull on Fidel, you also most likely live your own life, a kind of commanded warrior. Death is an integral part of the war, but there is nothing fun in it.
  • Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 5 June 2015 10: 42
    +4
    Quote: Malkor
    Bradley is also on fire

    Everything burns, if you approach this wisely! :)
    Quote: diver1977
    This is never funny, and not funny, even if he is at least thrice American.

    No one claims to be funny. Leave your painful fantasies aside. Yes, this is a warrior burning out of armored vehicles, set ablaze by a competent shot. This is by the way about the unmatched quality and ability to protect the crew. Yes, this affects all armored vehicles, not only Russian, as some wise men try to imagine.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 5 June 2015 17: 00
      0
      Yes ...? But the respected "flSergius" thinks it's funny, and even sings along ...
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 5 June 2015 17: 14
      +2
      Quote: Hedgehog
      No one claims to be funny.

      Well, here he is - Banson RU Today, 14:05 ↑ New
      Quote: diver1977
      Inappropriate, I think. The photo shows a man, a military man. This is never funny, and not funny, even if he is at least thrice American.
      Why not funny? Very much.
  • Rimsler2014
    Rimsler2014 5 June 2015 14: 26
    +1
    Well, that's not Bradley, but British Thief
  • wanderer_032
    wanderer_032 5 June 2015 14: 42
    +1
    Quote: Malkor
    Bradley is also on fire


    This is a British BMP "Warrior".



    Here is the BMP "Bradley":

  • VEKT
    VEKT 5 June 2015 16: 09
    +1
    Yes, by and large, everything is burning, if you set it on fire, the only question is how to use it so that it would not be set on fire.
    1. uwzek
      uwzek 5 June 2015 17: 17
      +1
      Quote: VEKT
      apply that would not set fire.

      The only ninety-eight percent way is to not use it at all. In this case, it is very likely that they will not burn it ... In other cases, they will burn it for sure, the question is what costs.
  • Sibiriya
    Sibiriya 5 June 2015 20: 46
    0
    complete nonsense, to be honest, the article) is immediately visible written by a person who does not know the history of combat applications) At least the history of meetings of t-72 and Abrash in the same Syria. As a fact, the latter have always shamefully fled so as not to break their pseudo-advertising. And here compares with Armata))
  • Malkor
    Malkor 5 June 2015 06: 54
    +9
    carrot tower tore off
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 5 June 2015 17: 23
      +1
      Quote: Malkor
      carrot tower tore off

      Not only carrots lose their heads ...
  • Malkor
    Malkor 5 June 2015 06: 55
    +4
    photo too nothing
    1. inkass_98
      inkass_98 5 June 2015 07: 55
      +4
      Quote: Malkor
      Bradley is also on fire

      Everything is on fire. Everything that is done can burn. The video has already been set, but I repeat. Yes, this is not funny since the war. But there is no impenetrable tank, just as there is no all-penetrating projectile. The eternal struggle of armor and sword.
      1. Malkor
        Malkor 5 June 2015 08: 05
        +4
        agree with you
        only PR pin_dostana verbs the opposite
  • iv_v virtual 3
    iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 08
    -15 qualifying.
    It would be worth reading the article you are commenting on.

    "The United States undoubtedly needs to think seriously about a new main battle tank, the continued dominance of the M1A2 Abrams notwithstanding. However, it is hardly clear that the threat of the Armata provides sufficient independent justification to jumpstart that process. The US needs to worry more about replacing the Bradley than the Abrams "

    What are your photos for? To the fact that the technique can burn? The technique that does not participate in hostilities does not burn.
    1. Malkor
      Malkor 5 June 2015 08: 12
      11
      photos to the fact that a certain country claims that the abrams has no competitors, it dominates and there were no losses of abrams - at different times in different phrases and different minions
      1. iv_v virtual 3
        iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 34
        -6
        You do not know English, do I understand correctly? Use google translate. About the loss of Abrams in the article not a word.
      2. Falcon
        Falcon 5 June 2015 12: 12
        0
        Quote: Malkor
        photos to the fact that a certain country claims that the abrams has no competitors, it dominates and there were no losses of abrams - at different times in different phrases and different minions

        Nobody spoke a word about the losses. Of course, one can argue about dominance, but most likely we are talking about quantity with comparable quality. When compared with other Western counterparts. That is what is meant by dominance.
    2. Altona
      Altona 5 June 2015 12: 10
      +2
      Quote: iv_v virtual 3
      "The United States undoubtedly needs to think seriously about a new main battle tank, the continued dominance of the M1A2 Abrams notwithstanding. However, it is hardly clear that the threat of the Armata provides sufficient independent justification to jumpstart that process. The US needs to worry more about replacing the Bradley than the Abrams "

      -----------------------
      Why are these passages, which is more needed, an infantry fighting vehicle or a tank? The presence of armored vehicles in the army is determined by the military doctrine of the state and armament specialists, and not by sofa "iksperds" ... This is, firstly, and secondly, so far no one has been able to replace a competent crew in a tank ... And no equipment has yet replaced a specialist on the battlefield ... The other day I read an interesting phrase - "a mine or a shell flies into the barracks with tankers and expensive equipment in the regiment's park becomes iron trash" ... I also advise you to read the article "Myths about the US Army" to dispel some of my illusions about about the power and motivation of the US Army and USMS ...
      link, read-
      http://www.forum-mil.ru/publ/mif_ob_armii_ssha/3-1-0-200
      1. iv_v virtual 3
        iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 13: 32
        0
        Damn, I really do not understand this. There is a specific article by a specific author. In my opinion, since it was placed here, it makes sense to spend 10 minutes and figure out what exactly he writes. Unfortunately, for this you have to read the source, since the translation of Cyril does not particularly correspond to him.
        This author, in particular, writes that in his opinion the task of replacing MBT for USArmy is less important than replacing an IFV. This opinion is very widespread, as far as I know.

        This author does not raise questions of qualification of personnel at all.

        Your ideas about the level of training of the US Army personnel are understandable. If in your reality the American losses in the "Desert Storm" amounted to 1,5 thousand people. per day, as indicated by your link, it makes no sense to discuss all this.
  • Shiva83483
    Shiva83483 5 June 2015 09: 03
    +2
    My dear, never mind, the dog barks, the caravan goes ... well, you know.
  • Garay dgonson
    Garay dgonson 5 June 2015 11: 31
    -3
    And if you compare the losses of Iraq and T72 with the Abrams, the picture will change a little, right? And they helped the newest at that time Iraq and what is the advertising after that "who have no analogues in the world" hi
  • wk
    wk 6 June 2015 00: 24
    0
    Quote: Malkor
    Then abrams is a complete failure, something pin_dos completely lied

    Abramsy’s picture of a mine blast! .... which tank can stand? Russian and Ukrainian tanks burst due to sparks in the department ..... the miscalculation with a saber charge is fatal .... if Armata still has a slug charge THIS IS TROUBLE!
    stop copying all garbage .... yes the abrams, merkavas and other leopards of Leclerka make their way with the finger of the couch general, especially if he poked his nose or where else?
  • Houston
    Houston 6 June 2015 13: 48
    +1
    Quote: Malkor
    Is the T-90 not successful in exporting? Then abrams is a complete failure, something pin_dos completely lies. And the fact that Abrams dominates is complete crap.

    Apparently, soon there will be no adequate articles and comments left in the VO even in the "Armament" section (in the others, it has long been gone). Remain, something like this:
    - From Donald Cook, everyone in fear has gone awry.
    - Abrams - shit! Breaks through Saiga.
    - F-22, the same shit, but insanely expensive.
    - F-35, in general, shit and drank the budget.
    - M 16 - scary shit, wedges through time.
    And only the T-50, Armata and the future Russian aircraft carrier created, is this the crown of military thought without any analogues in the world!
    PS: Local experts, this feeling does not bother at all that they are comparing a serial Golf with a prototype VAZ.
    1. iv_v virtual 2
      iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 16: 14
      -1
      Quote: Houston
      soon on VO even in the heading "Armament" there will be no <...> adequate articles

      The article from The National Interest is quite adequate if you read it. Previously, I could not see such a balanced (I will not say that it is correct) statement on the prospects of "Armata"
      I am grateful to Cyril for the fact that he drew my attention to this article.
      1. Houston
        Houston 6 June 2015 17: 00
        0
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2

        An article from The National Interest is quite adequate if you read it.

        I read similar articles not only in National Interest. Well, what’s of them adequate? What are we talking about? About what is not in sight?
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2

        Previously, I could not see such a balanced (I will not say that it is correct) statement on the prospects of "Armata"

        And I have not previously been able to see a balanced statement on the prospects for the Avtovaz electric car. But he is. And on it Manturov dissects at his dacha. And calls it, bitch, "all weather." You see, "all-weather"! As if the 200th Land Cruiser refuses to start in the rain, and the AvtoVAZ miracle starts with a half kick.
        Quote: iv_v virtual 2

        I am grateful to Cyril for the fact that he drew my attention to this article.

        Brian Cyril is the head.
        1. iv_v virtual 2
          iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 19: 11
          -1
          Quote: Houston
          Brian Kirill is the head.

          Pancake. How can I make crossed out text here?
          Cyril as a translator is so-so. But I myself would hardly have climbed onto the magazine's website.
          Quote: Houston
          I read similar articles not only in National Interest

          Have you read the article in English? The tank is considered in an understandable and consistent coordinate system, with the author trying to rely on facts, and not on painful fantasies about a mysterious but terrible future. It turns out fresh, at least for me.
          If you know resources where you can read high-quality analytics on military subjects, advise, pliz. Reflections on ZOG I do not perceive.
          Quote: Houston
          And calls it, bitch, "weatherproof."

          This is roughly what I mean by the lack of quality analytics.
    2. Garay dgonson
      Garay dgonson 7 June 2015 08: 35
      -3
      Yes, all simply remained pocket poets, all the rest were banned and have long been spitting from the local pootriotov.
  • qwert
    qwert 5 June 2015 06: 56
    20
    I read the article. Farley speaks in an unrelated set of phrases, jumping from one to the other without saying anything good. Everything mixed up in a heap, Armata, Chinese, PAKFA, Evrem, Crimea, Merkava, and so on. The maximum conclusion: In Russia, a new tank has appeared, which may be good, or may not be successful, Russia will be able to produce it in series if it has mastered all the necessary technologies, and maybe it will not be able to produce in series if it does not overcome all technological difficulties. hi In short, Captain Evidence and unsuccessful astrologer in one bottle.
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 12
      -8
      Before commenting, you should read the article. Farley is expressed quite clearly and consistently. Translation (more precisely, retelling) is extremely unsuccessful.
      1. Altona
        Altona 5 June 2015 12: 46
        0
        Quote: iv_v virtual 3
        Before commenting, you should read the article. Farley is expressed quite clearly and consistently. Translation (more precisely, retelling) is extremely unsuccessful.

        -------------------------
        Dear, I strongly advise you not to read American newspapers, or rather, you can read it, but take what has been stated extremely critically, since the author's opinion strongly depends on the remarks in the margin of the editor-in-chief, who is guided by the official position on this issue of the main shareholders of this publication ... shareholders should largely follow in the wake of the position of the official authorities so as not to come into conflict with the law and be able to finance their activities normally and not have problems with the FBI and other law enforcement officers who will certainly begin to probe the publication for external influence and if they find at least a handshake with a representative of a "non-handshake country", then "burning a tank battalion" for this publication will seem like a cute prank ... Always keep this in mind and read the information in different sources ...
        1. iv_v virtual 3
          iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 13: 09
          0
          Sorry, this is a specific article.

          Quote: Altona
          Farley speaks in an unrelated set of phrases


          Farley speaks clearly and distinctly. He views Armata strictly as a commercial product.
          An unrelated set of phrases are attempts by uv. Cyril in a hurry to retell this article.

          How far Mr. Farley is right is another matter.
    2. Houston
      Houston 7 June 2015 06: 08
      0
      Quote: qwert
      I read the article. Farley speaks in an unrelated set of phrases, jumping from one to the other without saying anything good.

      To read such articles is to waste time. What ours, what, foreign. While that’s all, talk is nothing.
  • Sharapov
    Sharapov 5 June 2015 07: 13
    +8
    Again, share the skin of an unkilled bear .... Discuss better how many years it still takes to refine the tank to mind, especially with the prospect of replacing the gun with a more powerful one. Remember and compare the T-34-76 and T-34-85. Specialist warriors will understand what it is about, sofa-sitters will zamusuyut.
    1. bocsman
      bocsman 5 June 2015 08: 00
      +5
      So what's the problem ? For the forty-first year, the T-34 tank was raw, but there were few trained crews (it was written that there was no equal with a trained T-34 crew). The gun is quite effective. Improvement went on all the time both in terms of technology and in terms of combat effectiveness (representatives of the plant were constantly present in the troops, in addition, military specialists regularly wrote reports and comments). The Germans got new tanks and made a new turret with a more powerful cannon. And this during the hardest war. This is a normal process, any technique is being improved during operation! The same "Sherman" M4, how many modifications it had!
      1. bistrov.
        bistrov. 5 June 2015 10: 51
        +5
        Regarding the modernization of the T-34: it was very effective, a new cast turret with 85 mm was installed on it. gun ZIS-S-53, its armor penetration was 1,7 higher than that of the F-34; it was only slightly inferior to 88 mm. Thus, due to minimal changes in the design of the T-34, Soviet designers managed, not only without reducing, but even increasing the rate of production, to give the front a vehicle capable of fighting on equal terms with the new German heavy tanks "Tiger" and " Panther. "This became possible only thanks to the potential of modernization inherent in the design of the T-34, ahead of its time. The T-34 was withdrawn from service in the USSR quite recently, in the 70s, and in some countries it is used to this day. And I believe that the Armata tank will also be the ancestor of a modern family of tanks, which will be equal to the tank building of the whole world. And that tanks are still the main striking force of the ground forces, we have already managed to make sure in the East of Ukraine.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • NEXUS
    NEXUS 5 June 2015 08: 51
    +4
    Quote: Kibalchish
    in the West they started talking about developing their new tank.

    Talk and make very different concepts. The West doesn’t even have a project yet, and we are already deciding to put a 152 mm cannon on Armata. While the Germans will build a serial tank in a tonde with the French, our Armata will be run-in, modernized and put on stream. the West has 10-15 years on this issue.
  • THE_SEAL
    THE_SEAL 5 June 2015 14: 14
    -6
    In 1991, the USSR had more than 60 thousand tanks of various modifications. And the United States, using other weaknesses, destroyed the Union. Armata is not a panacea. And the money will be pulled from the budget. And not small. Is there really no other problem in the country?
    1. Alf
      Alf 5 June 2015 19: 04
      +1
      Quote: THE_SEAL
      In 1991, the USSR had more than 60 thousand tanks of various modifications. And the United States, using other weaknesses, destroyed the Union. Armata is not a panacea. And the money will be pulled from the budget. And not small. Is there really no other problem in the country?

      In the 90s, Yusovtsy already suggested that we disband the army to save money and join the world order. Only overseas people all the time forgot to say who would manage this order. And there are many problems in the country, but we recall the most ancient wisdom — the People who do not want to feed their army, WILL feed a stranger.
      1. iv_v virtual 2
        iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 47
        -3
        Quote: Alf
        In the 90s, Yusovtsy already offered us this.


        Such shocking statements should be supported by links.
        Quote: Alf
        A people who does not want to feed their army WILL feed a stranger

        You should bring this saying to the Bundestag or the House of Commons. Citizens of a country that borders Ireland by land and France by sea, this saying is difficult to understand. There was, of course, an example of the Falklands, but now less and less people understand what happened there.
        1. Alf
          Alf 5 June 2015 20: 26
          +1
          Quote: iv_v virtual 2
          Quote: Alf
          A people who does not want to feed their army WILL feed a stranger
          You should bring this saying to the Bundestag or the House of Commons. Citizens of a country that borders Ireland by land and France by sea, this saying is difficult to understand. There was, of course, an example of the Falklands, but now less and less people understand what happened there.

          I care about my country, I don’t give a damn about the Bundestag and the House of Commons. And I can only advise the country you are talking about not to get into your own business. It was about her that A.V. Suvorov used to say-Gadit, an Englishwoman, crap.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • URAL72
    URAL72 5 June 2015 15: 28
    +4
    Almaty Tower

    http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/567/pwgq794.jpg
    1. URAL72
      URAL72 5 June 2015 15: 31
      +3
      http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/114/hhqq556.jpg
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. URAL72
        URAL72 5 June 2015 15: 33
        +2
        http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/552/bnqt129.jpg
        1. URAL72
          URAL72 5 June 2015 15: 34
          +3
          http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/908/gmjh173.jpg
          1. URAL72
            URAL72 5 June 2015 15: 35
            +2
            http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/957/fhrh771.jpg
            1. URAL72
              URAL72 5 June 2015 15: 37
              +2
              http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/153/fjja132.jpg
              1. URAL72
                URAL72 5 June 2015 15: 41
                +3
                http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/447/rxxx568.jpg
                1. URAL72
                  URAL72 5 June 2015 16: 08
                  +5
                  Serial production of armored ceramics for the protection elements of the latest combat vehicles began in Novosibirsk, TASS reports citing the head of the armored ceramics bureau of the NEVZ-Ceramics developer Andrei Nikitin

                  “This year the tests of armored ceramics are completed, all the declared characteristics have been confirmed. Now began mass production "
                  Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/news/25551
                  1. dauria
                    dauria 6 June 2015 09: 21
                    0
                    Serial production of armored ceramics for protection elements of the latest combat vehicles began in Novosibirsk


                    Here is the main thing. Good Armata in its present form or miscalculated, time will tell. There will remain people and enterprises capable of making armor and engines, fuel and guns, electrics and microcircuits .. New cats will grow up among people. The main thing is to do it, and do it yourself. And mistakes - to hell with them. Without a bunch of unsuccessful pre-war light tanks, there would be no 34 matches. You can’t do it on the knee in the barn. We need production and people with experience, albeit unsuccessful. (Although a silly expression is a bad experience)
  • Balamyt
    Balamyt 5 June 2015 06: 19
    +7
    Should America be worried about Armata?

    No, it should not! She is MANDATORY!
    Moreover, we all remember that in the end, "America must be destroyed!"
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 14
      -20 qualifying.
      Mr. Farley does not think so.

      "The ability of the Russian defense industry, not to mention the Russian defense budget, to manage this is in serious question, especially given that Russia also needs to pay for active military operations in Ukraine, and for the occupation of Crimea"

      Perhaps it has a reason.
      1. Alf
        Alf 5 June 2015 19: 06
        +3
        Quote: iv_v virtual 3
        "The ability of the Russian defense industry, not to mention the Russian defense budget, to manage this is in serious question, especially given that Russia also needs to pay for active military operations in Ukraine, and for the occupation of Crimea"

        You are in the Russian forum. Please communicate in Russian.
        1. iv_v virtual 2
          iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 55
          -6
          I quote Farley's article.

          Ok, if you do not want to trash foreign words.

          "The ability of the Russian military-industrial complex, regardless of funding, to organize" serial production of fundamentally new tanks "raises serious doubts, especially in connection with the fact that Russia also has to pay for active military operations in / in Ukraine, as well as for the seizure of Crimea <rejection of international cooperation in the military sphere> "
          1. Alf
            Alf 5 June 2015 20: 29
            +3
            Quote: iv_v virtual 2
            <refusal from international cooperation in the military sphere> "

            And who cooperated with us? The only type of cooperation from the point of view of the NATO-Russians are fighting, suffering losses, ruining the country, and NATO is counting the profits.
            Russia also has to pay for active military operations in / in Ukraine,

            Evidence of the participation of Russian military units in the war in Ukraine in the studio. Please do not give photos from Call of duty.
            1. iv_v virtual 2
              iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 20: 51
              -3
              Quote: Alf
              Evidence of the participation of Russian military units in the war in Ukraine in the studio

              Do you disagree with the opinion of Mr. Farley that I quoted? You should ask for evidence from him.

              If I understood your point correctly, the Russian leadership managed to convince NATO, the EU, the British Commonwealth and a number of other countries (both the leadership of the countries and the media) that it was conducting an aggressive war, while doing nothing. This is a phenomenal result.

              Again. I am not going to discuss whether the RF Armed Forces are involved in the Ukrainian conflict or not. I affirm that the opinion of our West-Eastern partners on this issue has been determined and should be taken into account.

              Quote: Alf
              And who cooperated with us? The only type of cooperation from the point of view of the NATO-Russians are fighting, suffering losses, ruining the country, and NATO is counting the profits.

              Some controversial plan, do not you think? Nevertheless, while it works, perhaps.

              Specify Electronics Manufacturers on Indian T-90.
              1. Alf
                Alf 5 June 2015 21: 03
                +2
                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                You should ask for evidence from him.

                But such as farley evidence is not needed. The main thing is to blame Russia for all mortal ills and do it as loudly and more often as possible, without bothering yourself with evidence.
                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                If I understood your point correctly, the Russian leadership managed to convince NATO, the EU, the British Commonwealth and a number of other countries (both the leadership of the countries and the media) that it was conducting an aggressive war, while doing nothing. This is a phenomenal result.

                No need to ascribe to me what I did not say. This is precisely the leadership of Western countries that unprovenly accuses Russia.
                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                Quote: Alf
                And who cooperated with us? The only type of cooperation from the point of view of the NATO-Russians are fighting, suffering losses, ruining the country, and NATO is counting the profits.
                Some controversial plan, do not you think?

                This is exactly what the West is doing. Remember the first and second world wars.
                1. iv_v virtual 2
                  iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 22: 11
                  -5
                  Quote: Alf
                  The main thing is to blame Russia for all mortal troubles

                  He does not blame, but screws in the subordinate clause. Excuse me, but after Ilovaisk this issue is not considered debatable in the West.

                  And I would not expect that the situation in Donetsk and Luhansk regions is a "mortal disaster" for the American author.

                  Quote: Alf
                  This is precisely the leadership of Western countries that unprovenly accuses Russia.


                  It happens that proof is not required. This is called "reputation". This is also a fact to be reckoned with, although it may seem unfair to you.

                  By the way, Mr. Farley has enough evidence. And he is not the only one there, alas.
                  Quote: Alf
                  This is exactly what the West is doing. Remember the first and second world wars.

                  I remember both of them, and pretty well.
                  In the first case, Russia with rather absurd goals fit into this idiotic Serbian story. Then she capitulated rather inappropriately.
                  In the second case, the USSR did not have the slightest disagreement with the Reich until 22.06.1941/2/354.1, that is, the first XNUMX years of the war. Moreover, the economic and military (Poland) relations of the USSR and the Reich at that time allowed individual authors to draw conclusions falling within the scope of Article XNUMX of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation. After the war, this topic out of politeness was declared insignificant.
                  When in the 41st wise peace-loving policy of the USSR turned out to be indisputable, the West, specifically the USA, supplied the USSR with $ 160 billion worth (at the prices of 2015, according to Russia's enemies from Forbes Russia), for which he received $ 722 million, paid mainly in 2006.
                  It is often heard that the USSR paid for the Lend-Lease with the lives of its soldiers. Apparently, supporters of this idea believe that there would have been fewer victims in the USSR without Lend-Lease.

                  I would say that all this was an extremely unsuccessful business. Perhaps you know some other examples.
  • user1212
    user1212 5 June 2015 06: 41
    15
    They have claims to PAK FA. And no one claims F35?
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 16
      -12 qualifying.
      To F35 they have a lot of complaints. Claims to the PAK FA are for Indians, not Americans. Who pays for what, he has a claim. It seems normal to me.
      1. Evgeny_Lev
        Evgeny_Lev 5 June 2015 11: 08
        +7
        The Indians have only one claim to PAK FA - this is the lack of a proposal for its EXPORT
        1. iv_v virtual 3
          iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 11: 22
          -4
          Exactly. With a contract signed in 2007.
    2. Falcon
      Falcon 5 June 2015 12: 18
      -5
      Quote: user1212
      They have claims to PAK FA. And no one claims F35?

      they plan to do about 100 machines in the ranks and plan on 150 per year (about F-35) - no, I think they don’t. And the price is in 100-120 Lama per piece. comparable with the forecasts for PAK FA (which still have a long way to go) and the price of Eurofighter and Rafal, which are generally 4 ++ and not 5 ...

      I think for sure the claims against him are only among cheers of patriots, and not among specialists ...
      1. iv_v virtual 3
        iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 13: 37
        -4
        Present. Long, expensive, unnecessary. Ordinary parliamentary graters.
  • Sergey Sitnikov
    Sergey Sitnikov 5 June 2015 06: 41
    16
    What is he still writing about Cyril ??? Do not you think that hell cut from gossip / social networks and analyzes them? Assumption is the mother of error! I know the guys from UVZ, there is no personnel shortage there - drive the loot right and they will do everything, remove thieves from the office, etc. .. How can one analyze gossip and give a LONG-TERM forecast?
    1. Per se.
      Per se. 5 June 2015 08: 06
      +3
      Quote: Sergey Sitnikov
      Assumption is the mother of error!
      The fact that the earth is round was once also only an assumption. Suggest not to think, not to analyze? For the first time the emergence of the concept of "platform" in technology is credited with IBM, their principle of "open architecture" made it possible to popularize the product, to become the IBM PC one of the main computer platforms. Automotive corporations presented the platform as an opportunity to increase sales by diversifying the lineup on the basis of the adopted chassis. In both cases, these are marketing moves, where profit came first. What did Serdyukov bring in the process of promoting "platforms"? They put an end to the almost finished T-95 in 2010, took up the Armata platform, in this development of R&D and R&D, modernization of production, in 2011, according to Vladimir Putin, they invested 64 billion rubles, spent years. Now, having a crude product, with a price of about 14 million for one T-400, they want to make it a base for other equipment. Isn't it too dubious "economy", especially since, for example, the "Coalition" self-propelled gun can be produced (as seen at the parade) and on the cheaper and more developed T-90 chassis. Powerful armor is not required for ACS, as well as for other equipment, such as bridges, recovery vehicles and other equipment, which was also successfully produced on the basis of the T-72 for a long time. Who benefits from using an expensive chassis, what is the logic and economy? Commerce reigns supreme, and platforms, "for the first time in the world," are not about the army, they are about income. To do this, the hands are scratching as soon as possible to dispose of the stocks of "old" equipment. If you remember Israel, even captured T-54 / T-55s, like the outdated Centurions, were used for conversion into heavy armored personnel carriers. No one in the West is in a hurry to create "platforms", but on the basis of the same "Leopard", as we have on the basis of the T-72, a family of various equipment has also been created, including the heavy BMP "Marder". The whole T-95 chip was in a 152 mm cannon, for the sake of it and the garden was fenced, with an armored capsule and a vacant space for the gun, without it the advantages of the T-14 are doubtful over the T-90 in terms of price-quality ratio (and quantity) In general, there are two options , either isolate the crew from the ammunition by placing the crew in a cramped armored capsule, or isolate the ammunition from the crew. With a 125 mm gun, the solution used in the "Black Eagle" is much more logical, where the autoloader and ammunition were separated from the crew (the "tightness" does not interfere with the hardware), increasing the comfort of living and general protection without increasing the vehicle's gobarites. Only, someone had to get rid of the gas turbine engine, put an end to not only the "Black Eagle", but also the prospect of modernizing the T-80, bankrupt the Omsk Tank Plant. Such, here, is the economy under the monopoly capitalists. On the diagram "Black Eagle", the layout principle is clearly visible.
      1. uwzek
        uwzek 5 June 2015 19: 05
        +1
        Quote: Per se.
        Such, then, is the economy under the monopoly capitalists.

        It’s not so simple with the capitalist monopolists (by the way, I remind you once again that UVZ is a state-owned enterprise, albeit a monopolist).
        I agree that all "non-advanced" armored vehicles can (and should) be made on the basis of the T-72 (now the T-90 has long been already). But then there is a stupid song about "about a black eagle". Try to forget the stories about "bourgeois" WHEN DISCUSSING ABOUT TANKS. I confess, I hammered into the blind, did not notice that the capslok touched, and then, it was too lazy to interrupt ... None in the world (although, just, there are thousands of them, but only in virtual terms) does a new tank on its own - an extremely expensive allowance , which even cadres from the category of Abramovich and the Saudi princes never dared to (probably even in nightmares). You can decide on such costs, having serious guarantees of subsequent orders (in fact, having a government order in advance). No one deliberately bankrupted the Omsk plant - it went bankrupt itself, having no equipment that someone else bought. Tank is far from popcorn. We will not acquire a single tank in our entire life (firstly, you don't need nafig, and secondly, it's expensive). The Abramovichs and other oil princes have the same thing ...
        All manufacturers of military equipment depend on the customer. They have no opportunity to develop without the availability of production and R&D prepaid by someone (in our country, only by the state). UVZ was saved from the fate of Omsk only by the Indian contract of 2000, which made it possible not only to preserve, but also to restore production. And it is incorrect to compare the "eagle" with the T-90, in the same years UVZ was moving the T-95, which was not made in one copy, and was classified so that it was not allowed to attend exhibitions.
        For the simultaneous production of machines such as T-90 and "armature" at UVZ, there is not enough production space. New ones are almost ready, but who will invest in construction without a guaranteed order? is it billions of money?
        1. Per se.
          Per se. 5 June 2015 20: 54
          0
          Quote: uwzek
          Try to forget the stories about "bourgeois" WHEN DISCUSSING ABOUT TANKS.
          How can we forget, dear Andrei Ivanovich, if we have "liberal capitalism" and the state has done nothing to preserve the tank plant in Omsk. You are talking about guarantees for orders, why is our native bourgeois government willing to generously finance "platforms" of raw technology? Who will guarantee that "Boomerang", "Kurganets" or "Armata" will justify the hopes that they will be successfully brought to mind? How many years have we tested and adjusted the BTR-90, which was a logical continuation of the development of our wheeled armored personnel carriers, but "buyers" made sour mines from defense. "Boomerang", this two-story monster, is falling from the sky, and it is already assigned to be the basis in one of the "platforms", as an established model, and this miracle of capitalism has not passed full tests, has not been tested in the troops, has not been adopted at all! The same, fat-ass "Kurganets", before which "Bradley" became miniature, why is it better than the elaborated BMP-3 or the modernization of the BMP-2 ("Berezhok")? "Kurganets" is also already designated as the basis of the middle "platform", and also "pig in a poke". Let, in the T-14, the experience of working on the T-95 was used, so here, in fact, they have already designated the tank as the basis of a heavy platform, declared it the main one for the armored forces of Russia. At the same time, it was announced that the stocks of "old" tanks would be reduced by several times. We are embarking on a total rearmament, we are talking about reducing the number of tanks, and at the same time we actually have one tank plant. Famously! First, a new house is built, after the old one is destroyed, not vice versa. I did not compare the "Eagle" with the T-90, there was a comparison of an armored capsule for the crew (T-14 and T-95) and an "armored capsule" for an automatic loader and ammunition ("Black Eagle"). If UVZ, as you put it, stupidly lacks production space, it is all the more stupid to lose a tank plant in Omsk.
        2. wk
          wk 7 June 2015 21: 39
          0
          Quote: uwzek
          UVZ - state-owned enterprise

          this is not so at all! .... and this is the main thing!
    2. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 08: 26
      -11 qualifying.
      Perhaps, from the point of view of Mr. Farley, "the guys from UVZ", who expect that they will "get the right money", and especially the "thieves in management" - this is personnel shortage.
      1. uwzek
        uwzek 5 June 2015 19: 10
        +4
        Quote: iv_v virtual 3
        "guys from UVZ" who expect that they will "get the right money",

        Actually, we "guys from UVZ" are driving quite the right loot so far. They have driven you, dear, on a branch. Why continue to find fault with every word?
        1. iv_v virtual 2
          iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 10: 44
          -2
          Quote: uwzek
          Zagnobili you, dear


          The user virtual 3 posted about 30 comments on a variety of topics, received about 5000 negative ratings. In particular, he received more than 50 minuses per day for citing the rules of the forum and 5 minuses for reporting the decision of the Nuremberg Tribunal.

          The user virtual 2 received more than 20 minuses for presenting the thesis of the article by Farley, to which this topic is devoted.

          At the same time, I did not notice a single attempt at a meaningful discussion based on at least some sources and at least some detailed argumentation, except "You are all lying!" I am not ready to consider the link to http://www.forum-mil.ru/publ/mif_ob_armii_ssha/3-1-0-200 a source and argumentation.

          This experiment seems interesting and funny to me.

          Quote: uwzek
          we "guys from UVZ" are still driving the right loot


          Your, boy, labor successes, as I understand your message, are expressed in the minus of unpleasant posts on the Internet to you. I am glad that your work is paid. Mr. Farley believes that organizing engineering is a bigger challenge. Perhaps it has a reason.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Geemini
      Geemini 5 June 2015 10: 42
      +3
      It was embarrassing that he was leveling the t-80 and t-90, saying that after the 90s, Russia was building the t-80? O_o and the fact that this is the same tank! Only a person who does not fumble in tanks can say this.
      1. iv_v virtual 3
        iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 10: 53
        -8
        Sorry, he’s not leveling anything.
        "Russia used to produce a lot of tanks, and it used to export a lot of tanks. However, it's fair to say that the ability of contemporary Russian industry to mass produce a new tank is in some question. Into the early 1990s, Russia mass produced a pair of main battle tanks; the T-80 and the T-90. Fiscal pressures forced Russia to downsize to only one model in the late 1990s. "
        He writes that Russia from the early 90s produced only one model of the tank, and he doubts the ability to put the second into production. T-80 was made in Omsk. In any case, for the American author, Russia and the USSR can mean the same thing.
        1. Alf
          Alf 5 June 2015 19: 09
          +3
          Quote: iv_v virtual 3
          In any case, for the American author, Russia and the USSR can mean the same thing.

          For one American author, Austria and Australia were one and the same.
          1. iv_v virtual 2
            iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 57
            -1
            I thought that confusing the USSR and Russia would seem flattering to you. Even here I could not please, poor Farley.
  • iv_v virtual 2
    iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 07: 29
    -20 qualifying.
    After reading the article, I was in some bewilderment. Either The National Interest began to publish porridge recipes, or something. Fortunately, the author gave a link, which allowed to understand the topic.
    1. Armata is a more advanced design than tanks developed 40 years ago. This is trivial enough.
    2. The idea of ​​confronting Armata (as part of the forces of any state) and yusarmi is ridiculous to discuss. By definition, enemy tanks are not involved in a conflict with Yusarmi ground forces.
    3. Tanks are not mobile, expensive trash. Applied wisely, they can be useful.
    4. Armata may be of interest to countries that are not US customers. However, the largest of these countries will not buy this car for a number of reasons.
    5. Russia is currently not an industrialized country and is cut off from the supply of modern components. Armata is a fundamentally new and very complex design. The very possibility of its production in Russia raises great doubts.
    6. The US objectives in the field of GCV are in no way associated with the advent of Almaty.
    7. The role of Almaty in the RF Armed Forces is not considered due to the absence of any interest in the RF Armed Forces.

    Total Aroma is a potentially promising product in a relatively small market if it is possible to organize its production, which is almost impossible for the reasons described.

    It seems to me quite a reasonable look. I’ll add from myself that the success of a product on the market does not mean its profitability. It is impossible to imagine that during the development of Almaty issues of commercial effectiveness were given attention.
    1. ILDM1986
      ILDM1986 5 June 2015 08: 42
      +2
      and what is the problem with profitability? What is the conclusion that no one wants to buy?
      In general, there is a top-priority package of orders from the Russian Federation, then, when the capacities become free, the release of export modifications will be possible. Why should they sell to NATO countries, if they want, the tank has a modular structure, therefore, it will be relatively easy to build almost any vehicle on the basis of the basic model without unnecessary costs, up to a half-tank semi-BMP of the "Merkava" type. For export modifications, it will not be shameful to use foreign components, even 120 mm guns and an MSA for them, if only the bourgeois colleagues would sell. Likewise, the situation with sanctions and isolation of the Russian Federation will not last forever - their own orders for 3000 "Armata" for several years, if not for a decade, will take a queue at the plant - and by that time the prospects will already be visible. in any case, competitors will release an analogue no earlier than 5 years later, our tank will be repulsed by that time at least due to massive purchases for our troops, it will be possible to dump to some extent.
      1. iv_v virtual 3
        iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 09: 39
        -13 qualifying.
        Quote: ILDM1986
        What is the conclusion that no one wants to buy?

        Mr. Farley says no one. He writes about India and China. The heavy GCV market, which does not include NATO countries, the US allies, India and China, is rather limited and, in the author's opinion, will not justify the launch of fundamentally new samples.
        Quote: ILDM1986
        How much to sell to NATO countries, if they want

        Are you going to sell tanks in Germany? God help you.
        Quote: ILDM1986
        Also, the situation with sanctions and isolation of the Russian Federation will not last forever

        Google the “Jackson-Vanik Amendment.” Russia has achieved too much in the past year to quickly sink into the sand.
        Quote: ILDM1986
        our tank will be cut off by then

        UVZ is a 100% state-owned company. In this regard, profitability issues are addressed in a specific way. I do not know of cases when a Russian industrial state-owned company could offer a new commercially successful product.

        Quote: ILDM1986
        3000 "Armat"


        If I’m not mistaken, this is significantly more than the number of tanks used in NATO countries combined (excluding conservation). A great way to entertain yourself.
  • X Y Z
    X Y Z 5 June 2015 09: 06
    10
    The existing M1A2 Abrams retains a dominant position, but still needs to be replaced.


    I even think he's the best of all time on Discovery Channel. But no one has yet proved that in a battle with an equal opponent, he can dominate, and not burn like a candle.
    1. Garay dgonson
      Garay dgonson 5 June 2015 11: 37
      -5
      With what equal? T72 which is still the basis of the sun of the Russian Federation? This prototype, until the series reaches another 15 years, will pass, if at all, they can arrange production due to sanctions ...
  • Cynic
    Cynic 5 June 2015 09: 53
    +3
    An article about an article where the author crawls with a thought on the tree about Armata.
    It all comes down to a resume _ Not everything is so straightforward.
    1. flSergius
      flSergius 5 June 2015 11: 10
      +1
      An article about an article where the author crawls with a thought on the tree about Armata.
      It all comes down to a resume _ Not everything is so straightforward.


      This is the hallmark of the American way of doing business - presentationism. The ability to pour water, or rather an informational mess with pulling dozens of diverse opinions and references, while not enduring your personal thoughts (are they?) Or doing some generalized vanging ... But all this must be accompanied by presentations with visual pictures, as in books for retarded children and necessarily graphs with arrows climbing up, speak in the voice of a professional preacher and with a rehearsed, unobtrusive, supposedly sincere smile, be able to deftly shut up those who ask uncomfortable questions. It came from their proponents of "miracle mixtures" from the Wild West and nomadic pseudo-evangelical preachers. The devil is disgusting, because is spreading into the business areas of other countries.
  • Evgeny_Lev
    Evgeny_Lev 5 June 2015 11: 01
    +1
    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    The actions of the Reich in 1941 were declared criminal by international consensus, including Germany, which was formalized in the sentences of the Nuremberg Tribunal. Any US actions were not criminalized. The tribunals for these actions are held mainly in the format of talk shows on Russian TV. Separately, I note that

    1. The Wehrmacht soldier in the West is considered to be the victims of the Nazi regime. Their death is a tragedy, as well as the death of other WWII victims, with the discount that they were not non-combatants. The Wehrmacht, especially its rank-and-file composition, unlike the SS (except for the Waffen-SS), the leadership of the NSDAP, the SD and the Gestapo, was not recognized as a criminal organization. In Nuremberg, no one laid the responsibility for the crimes of the political leadership of the Reich on the 18-year-old German guys who had lived under Hitler since the 3rd grade.

    2. In the event of an international consensus regarding the actions of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine and an international tribunal in this regard, Russian soldiers will most likely not be recognized as criminals. No one (most likely) will hold the 18-year-old Russian guys who have been living under Putin for 3 years responsible for the (alleged) crimes of the country's political leadership.




    Stop living in illusions. Take it as a fact and start using the most important tool that nature has given to man - intellect
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 11: 23
      -5
      An exciting offer. Shine if you can.
      1. Victor-M
        Victor-M 5 June 2015 11: 34
        +3
        Quote: iv_v virtual 3
        An exciting offer. Shine if you can.

        They told you just start using, and shine it only later, when you learn to do the first. laughing
        1. iv_v virtual 3
          iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 11: 40
          -4
          Looked at your last comments.

          Checked out your ability to write phrases longer than 4 lines. Every word is gold.
        2. flSergius
          flSergius 5 June 2015 11: 45
          +3
          Why talk to him, the troll is visible, it is not even hiding. Ignore and ban!
          1. iv_v virtual 3
            iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 11: 53
            -8
            Initially, I tried to convey the position of Mr. Farley to people banned from http://nationalinterest.org/. Other topics - from fascism to fagot - were suggested by other users.

            I agree, I have a lot of free time today, but I can’t leave home.
        3. Falcon
          Falcon 5 June 2015 13: 39
          -3
          Zadolbali already these Kremlin trolls. One flood from them.
          Well, there is no argument, if not pyzhit, so at least nag @ dit.
      2. Garay dgonson
        Garay dgonson 5 June 2015 11: 39
        -3
        He already shone, and you didn’t notice laughing
    2. Cynic
      Cynic 6 June 2015 18: 01
      0
      Quote: Evgeny_Lev
      nature to man - intellect

      Hmm, what, what, and you are not deprived of an intelect. In the sense that spellchecking can be connected, and not what you thought about.
      laughing
  • The comment was deleted.
  • remy
    remy 5 June 2015 12: 24
    0
    in principle, if, as expected, install a 152 mm gun, then we will get another "Geocind", in the form of T-14.
    nor any dynamics (DZ Contact) will save from such a powerful projectile.
    This is where all the most interesting in the new SPG Coalition is revealed. The self-propelled gun sends to the target 2-3 shells at different altitude paths, for simultaneous destruction. Here even KAZ Afghanit will be strong without.
    Again, the T-14, the tower is not inhabited, this miracle (!) Does not threaten the crew.
    real combat use will show everything!
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 6 June 2015 00: 08
      -1
      In Almaty, judging by the front view, the armored capsule is very thin - the hatch of the tank commander is directly in tight to the side, and this armored capsule should be 10-15 centimeters thick but there it is much smaller.
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 6 June 2015 00: 27
        +2
        Quote: Vadim237
        In Almaty, judging by the front view, the armored capsule is very thin - the hatch of the tank commander is directly in tight to the side, and this armored capsule should be 10 - 15 centimeters thick, but there it is much smaller

        Um ..

        - 10-15 see .. not, but what not half a meter right away? wink
        - The main purpose of the armored capsule itself is to protect the crew from undermining the ammunition inside the tank. So there is no reason for her to be very thick.
        - for protection from "outside" there is KAZ, AZ and standard armor (this is a tank after all)

        Somehow
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 6 June 2015 11: 16
          -1
          A thin armored capsule will not save from exploding the ammunition load even if it is made of steel armor with a short tensile strength of 3000 MPa - only if its thickness is higher than 10 centimeters, everything below the 10 break by the shock wave is guaranteed - this is based on the calculation of the explosion of the full ammunition set.
          1. Cat man null
            Cat man null 6 June 2015 18: 58
            +2
            Quote: Vadim237
            A thin armored capsule will not save from exploding the ammunition load even if it is made of steel armor with a short tensile strength of 3000 MPa - only if its thickness is higher than 10 centimeters, everything below the 10 break by the shock wave is guaranteed - this is based on the calculation of the explosion of the full ammunition set.

            Contact NIISTALI, they will help you there .. if they don’t send right away, essno ..

            Do you have friends in NIISTALI? I have .. had, until recently. It was these friends, by the way, who invented and tested the armor, the one that Armata had on the tower ..

            About how laughing

            PS:

            Quote: Vadim237
            from the calculation of the explosion of full ammunition.

            Well, the calculation greatly depends on the initial conditions for the calculation .. What if Armata shoots off a tower in the explosion of a BC? Then what - also 10 see break?

            Do not tell sneakers, such things are calculated, and then they are tested. Repeatedly.

            My friend, who was engaged in armor, got tired of flying on business trips: first to the factory where the armor is being rolled, and then to the range - to shoot it, armor.

            And so about a year and a half. Voooot ...
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 7 June 2015 23: 48
              -1
              Calculation of the exact -internal space of the tank explosive action spreads over the entire area no matter whether the tower flies or not, NIISstal developed the armor, and neither the tank’s hull element, which is this armored capsule, which apparently protects only the front and rear, maybe there are 10 centimeters, but the sides of the walls of this capsule are thin - alas, the transverse position of the three crew members played a negative role in the security of the side projection, regardless of whether there is a DZ or not
    2. Cat man null
      Cat man null 6 June 2015 00: 23
      +2
      Quote: remy
      Here all the most interesting in the new SPG Coalition is revealed. The self-propelled gun sends an 2-3 projectile to the target along different altitude paths, for simultaneous destruction. Here even KAZ Afghanit will be strong without.

      Introduced into thoughtfulness ..

      - Afghanite stands on Armata, right?
      - The coalition starts firing at moving Armata .. three shells, under simultaneous cover to .. well, let her have 10 rounds per minute (I do not mind) - 12 seconds between the first and last shot, right?

      Questions to the speaker:

      - at what distance should Armata be from the Coalition firing at it, so that the first and third shells fired with an interval of 12 (in fact - more, obviously) seconds flew into Armata simultaneously?
      - What distance will Armata travel in these 12 + X (X = approximately another 12, at least) seconds?
      - What place and how should the Coalition aim to get to Armata? If you don’t know what’s going on in the head for the mechanic in the next half minute?

      In short: remy, not the most successful example you brought.

      IMHO.
      1. iv_v virtual 2
        iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 08: 14
        -4
        Another aspect raises questions for me.
        When, where and under what circumstances, in the opinion of the respected remy, shelling of "Armata" from the Coalition should be expected. Because any of our potential opponents have more advanced AT systems than a 6-inch SPG.
  • Spacemonkey
    Spacemonkey 5 June 2015 12: 24
    0
    Quote: Malkor
    Military, but maybe not a man, but an accomplice of the Ukronazists.
    And war is never funny.
    200000 civilians in Iraq killed these military pin_dos, it is doubtful that they are human


    In Iraq, 1 million people died, of which 500 thousand children.
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 13: 14
      -4
      The victims of Yusarmi and the victims of ISIS did not add up in one figure, an hour? And where does infa come from, if not secret?
  • Unclean
    Unclean 5 June 2015 12: 25
    0
    I wanted to read comments on the article and on the tank, but are you some kind of root crop from the mountain paraffin and where are the remarks in essence?
  • Sochi
    Sochi 5 June 2015 13: 00
    +3
    little article so-so ... Especially chatter about the "best" Abrams. Experts are still undecided which tank of the Second World War is better, due to the different approach to requirements. And here, in passing, declaring superiority, like we have all the best ...
  • VSkilled
    VSkilled 5 June 2015 14: 47
    +2
    ... R. Farley's article perfectly illustrates the most interesting opinions about the new Russian project ...


    Here, just do not confuse "God's gift" - with scrambled eggs ...

    The article "illustrates" opinions that are never interesting, but purely interested.

    Those interested in spreading a breakthrough in Russian development as much as possible a layer of guano. So - pushing ...

    Frankly, they no longer know what to find fault with: even the ever-memorable stop during the rehearsal of the parade, and that one - was worn out all over, in an attempt to suck up the "fried" thread.

    It turns out badly. The tank - convincing and good, and definitely - has a brilliant prospect, moreover (which causes special attempts and cramps of enemies), the perspective is strategic.

    "iv_v virtual 3" is another "handshake", he is also a Jew-kraakl and he is a "non-system oppositionist". All three of its designations are completely synonymous. Spit on any "non-systemic oppositionist" - you will certainly fall into the rest.

    There is no strength to look at how people like him "suffer and suffer", living in our "wild and backward" Russia. At the same time - a paradox: to smoke such people out of Russia is a "problem-problem". At least - sprinkle them with dust, diseases ...
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 15: 03
      -5
      Another commentator who has not read the article.

      Quote: VSkilled
      spread on breakthrough Russian development


      "The main battle tank configuration of the Armata has several strong points. It has a modern armor system, an unmanned turret, and a crew compartment protected from the most common types of enemy fire"

      What else do you need from an American observer?

      Quote: VSkilled
      Tank - convincing and good


      The word "maybe", which Farley points to, is missing.

      Quote: VSkilled
      strategic perspective


      Farley does not consider individual pieces of technology as a "strategic" perspective. This position may be reasonable.

      There is no strength to watch people like him "suffer and suffer", living in our "wild and backward" Russia


      I am touched by your sympathy. Thank.

      Quote: VSkilled
      our "wild and backward" Russia


      These are your words, not mine.
      1. VSkilled
        VSkilled 5 June 2015 15: 29
        +3
        These are your words, not mine.


        Quotation marks tend to express the author's special, underlined sarcasm. However, this is apparently too difficult for your perception. Specialist. boarding school for children with developmental delays - "finished"? Hydrocephalus? A large head does not always indicate the presence of a large brain in it. Rather - the opposite ...

        It is especially touching how you brandish your English. ZelO gives a provincial burp of the newly-minted "inhabitant of the capital".

        ... the word "maybe" that Farley points to ...


        The stump is clear - but what else can he rest against? In the absence of real information? Only - to sow doubts, otherwise it will be stupidly trampled from work. Everything to him is "God's dew". His job is so ...

        Here he is - "sowing", like that lady on tests of the first steam locomotive.
        Which at first shouted hysterically: "Will not go!". And then: "Will not stop !!!"

        All these "body movements" clearly indicate that the West is "Armata" really impressed. Some, even to wet pants.

        There is a poorly concealed hysteria.
        1. iv_v virtual 2
          iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 13
          -6
          Virtual 3 has technical problems, I will answer for it
          Quote: VSkilled
          gives a provincial belch of the newly-minted "resident of the capital"

          The real Petersburg intellectual can be seen right away.
          Quote: VSkilled
          you wave your english

          Not at all. I assumed that anyone who comments on Farley's article will read it. This position seemed offensive to many, for some reason.
          Quote: VSkilled
          but what else can he rest on? In the absence of real information?

          So you were not convinced to read the article. Because Farley is not bothered by the lack of information. He says well-known things:
          a) this is the first Russian tank not connected by Soviet developments.
          b) this is the first tank, after the T-90, the production of which is supposed to be established in Russia.
          c) this is the first GCV in the world, after the T-90, which is being developed by a country that does not have access to international cooperation.

          It is these considerations that Mr. Farley puts into his "maybe".
          1. VSkilled
            VSkilled 6 June 2015 12: 08
            +2
            Quote: iv_v virtual 2
            Virtual 3 has technical problems ...


            Yes, you sho? Yesterday I registered and already drowned in the minuses, a troler?

            Today you re-registered - to work off "30 pieces of silver"?


            Quote: iv_v virtual 2
            The real Petersburg intellectual can be seen right away.


            That's for sure. But at the same time, he - "never" looks like a blunt pouty turkey.

            A true intellectual admits such an opportunity as an opponent’s ignorance of a foreign language. Therefore, a true intellectual delicately voices his version of the translation.

            Quote: iv_v virtual 2
            This position [Farley] seemed insulting to many ...


            Have mercy, insulted at barking and howling of the duty journalist from the gate?
            But ...

            Do you still continue to consider yourself an intellectual? Voluntarily or not, but you cast a shadow on the mental capacity of this "class". Once upon a time, the "title" "intellectual" - meant an irresistible combination of education with a sharp mind. But, that was a long time ago ... Degeneration - you are a ruthless creature!

            Quote: iv_v virtual 2
            Farley is not bothered by the lack of information. He says well-known things:
            a) this is the first Russian tank not connected by Soviet developments.


            He's lying, you bastard. For, within the framework of the existing School (be it, it, Scientific or Tank), there can be no unrelated developments. Simply - "by definition".

            Quote: iv_v virtual 2
            b) this is the first tank, after the T-90, the production of which is supposed to be established in Russia.


            It would be more correct to say not "first", but "next". But in this case, the "poisonous-pretentious" "significance" and even the "tragedy" of the maxim disappear somewhere. And - completely.


            Quote: iv_v virtual 2
            c) this is the first GCV in the world, after the T-90, which is being developed by a country that does not have access to international cooperation.


            "International cooperation" is a fig leaf with which they are trying to cover up the shame of the so-called "globalization". Which, in turn, is a tool for the collapse and destruction of competitors' industries.

            And, therefore - "bow low", for - lack of "access to international cooperation."

            All that is needed - we will do it ourselves. Or - copy it. In vain, perhaps - we feed the spies? Including - "industrial". In extreme cases - "through third countries" - we will buy until our own - does not work.

            But if a "big turmoil" begins - all this "international cooperation" - in a big "side" - will come out. Try to figure out for yourself why, "Petersburg intellectual". I'm not sure if "chamu" is enough, but you - try it. Maybe - not all brain functions were affected, after liquefaction and subsequent drying out ...
            1. iv_v virtual 2
              iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 12: 52
              -3
              Quote: VSkilled
              Today you re-registered - to work off "30 pieces of silver"?

              Darn. Again laughed. Where can I get the money? Throw the link, plz, on cia.gov did not find.
              Quote: VSkilled
              utop in the cons

              Yes, that was an interesting experience. I spoke out on this topic in detail, I will not repeat myself.
              I do not confirm your hypothesis that virtual 2 and virtual 3 are one and the same individual, as this practice does not comply with the rules of the site.
              Quote: VSkilled
              a true intellectual delicately voices

              I never claimed to be honest, but I translated Farley quotes if asked. A digest of the article in Russian was also proposed and scored, by the present minute, 23 minutes without a single indication of any translation inaccuracies.
              Quote: VSkilled
              This position [Farley] seemed offensive to many

              You should not add my text when quoting. Offensive to many (including, it seems, you) my position seemed to me that it should be read before the comments on the article, moreover, in this case, in the original source, because the muddy text that hung by uv. Cyril, obviously could not appear in a quality magazine.
              Quote: VSkilled
              Degeneration - you ruthless creature!

              I would not be so pessimistic about things. More like an experimental test of the well-known theorem on endless monkeys with a typewriter. It’s just that the Internet made it possible to carry out this experiment on a large scale with the help of a large number of volunteers, which was impossible in the era of printed books. So far, the result is negative.
            2. iv_v virtual 2
              iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 12: 52
              -2
              Quote: VSkilled
              within the existing School

              Be careful with capital letters. Design and manufacturing issues should be considered separately. Information that the "Armata" is a modernization of the T-90 and can be produced on existing lines, I did not come across. If there is - give a link, plz. If possible, not to the internet forum.
              Quote: VSkilled
              It would be more correct to say not "first", but "next"

              In this case, it would be appropriate to indicate the production of which tanks had previously been organized in the Russian Federation (and not the USSR). I would not call the T-90 a fundamentally new development, torn off from the Soviet production base. Organization of production issues, including elemental base, in this case, were resolved in the USSR, and not in the Russian Federation.
              Quote: VSkilled
              "International cooperation" is a fig leaf with which they are trying to cover up the shame of the so-called "globalization". Which, in turn, is a tool for the collapse and destruction of competitors' industries

              Another supporter of Juche's ideas. God help you. I note that previously successful experiments of such a plan were not recorded.
              Quote: VSkilled
              Maybe - not all brain functions suffered

              Seems to be yes. This is very bad for the rating.
              1. VSkilled
                VSkilled 6 June 2015 15: 33
                +2
                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                Darn. Again laughed. Where can I get the money?

                This mockery is not accepted. Simply by virtue of the fact that you are "thirsty for gesheft" - just a mile away. And, the latter, in principle, can be obtained in different forms. For example - "greyhound puppies" ©.

                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                I do not confirm your hypothesis that virtual 2 and virtual 3 are one and the same individual, as this practice does not comply with the rules of the site.


                Funny ...
                It's funny when a podzabornaya whore tries to portray "innocence", desperately "replaying" at the same time.

                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                ... I translated Farley's quotes if asked ...


                A real intellectual (and not an "intellectual") will never wait to be asked, for example, to give up a place to someone, in transport. Someone who really needs it.
                Given that English is not the second state language in Russia, the lack of translation in your quotes stinks of cheap snobbery.

                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                You should not add my text when quoting.


                Well, here is another sign of an "intellectual" who does not know even the simplest things: square brackets are used to mark insertions that have nothing to do with the main quote.

                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                Offensive to many (including, it seems, you) my position seemed ...


                I don’t have a habit of being offended (and, moreover, offended!) By the rain because it is wet. Or - on feces, because they smell bad. This is the nature of things ...

                Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                Be careful with capital letters. The issues of design and production should be considered separately.


                If I had a device capable of measuring the degree of your flatulence, then it would probably have already burned out, from overload ...
                You have an undeniable talent in the field of pathosic dubbing of something — a thread quite trivial. The multiplication table solemnly recited - did not try? I assure you that there will be undoubted success!
                1. VSkilled
                  VSkilled 6 June 2015 15: 35
                  +2
                  Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                  I would not call the T-90 a fundamentally new development, torn off from the Soviet production base ...


                  "Attention! Sick! Open your eyes! How many fingers do you see on my hand? ” ©
                  This I mean - that we are here, actually - talking about "Armata".
                  And so and yes ... Preparing technological equipment for the production of "Armata" is not something extra-expensive and extraordinary. A fairly routine procedure, which, as a rule, goes in parallel with the main development. I say this with full knowledge of the matter. Only what is available in production goes into development. Moreover, if possible - with minimal costs.

                  That is why the West is in hysterics. More precisely, he experiences a strong butthurt. Because it was not "concepts", and not even "prototypes" that drove through Red Square. Passed, at least - the "pilot batch", i.e. practically - pre-production samples.
                  Me comprenez-vous?

                  Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                  Another supporter of Juche's ideas. God help you. I note that previously successful experiments of such a plan were not recorded.


                  In the 50s, in the USA, they released "a very effective cure for bouts of sickness for pregnant women."
                  And then - babies with congenital deformities began to be born en masse. As it turned out - the victims of this very "effective" medicine.

                  Capitalism is like that ...

                  First, the EU gobbled up the industry of the former Soviet Balts. As "ineffective." Aha ... The Greeks, too, got it ... The most efficient industry turned out to be in Germany. Therefore, everyone else was advised to die culturally.

                  And, suddenly ... (ta-dam!) ... appeared on the horizon - "transatlantic trade and investment partnership".

                  And now - the Germans, not without reason, see the very near demise of their industry. A curtain...
                  1. iv_v virtual 2
                    iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 16: 39
                    -2
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    For example - "greyhound puppies"

                    I do not agree. Only cache.
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    A true intellectual will never be

                    Your statements about the intelligentsia are charming. But statements on issues that you understand, for example,
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    bitch whore tries to portray

                    better.
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    irrelevant to the main quote

                    It's not a problem. The problem is that your subsequent text was related to your insert, and not to my quote.
                    Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                    it should be read

                    Quote: VSkilled
                    feces <...> smells bad

                    Interesting analogies.
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    For, within the framework of the existing School (be it Scientific or Tank), there can be no unrelated developments.

                    Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                    The issues of design and production should be considered separately.

                    The multiplication table is not available to everyone, unfortunately.
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    I say this with full knowledge of the matter. Only what is available in production goes into development.

                    Are you good at organizing production? It is felt. Apparently, you mean the VAZ 2101-2107 line. It illustrates well your idea that "Only what is available in production goes into development."
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    Greeks, too - got

                    Heard about the past successes of the Greek economy.
                    Quote: VSkilled
                    the Germans, without reason, see the very near demise of their industry

                    Yes, you understand the German economy? You are just gold.
                    Fortunately for the Germans, they are quite capable of sorting out their foreign trade without your expert opinion.
                    1. VSkilled
                      VSkilled 6 June 2015 18: 06
                      +1
                      Quote: VSkilled
                      For example - "greyhound puppies"

                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      I do not agree. Only cache.


                      "No, you are not a fool, far from a fool ... my lip." ©

                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      The problem is that your subsequent text was related to your insert, and not to my quote.


                      The whole "insert" consisted only of the name of the one to whom you here so desperately masturbate. And just to reduce the size of the comment.

                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      it should be read


                      It should not be read, simply because it is feces and it becomes clear not even from the first paragraph - from the first phrase: "Russia has a new tank ... maybe."

                      I am translating it literally for you: "The Russians have a new tank ... maybe."

                      Yeah ... "maybe" ... They say - do not believe your eyes. Well, the rest, everything - in the same spirit, in the style of a woman on the tests of the first steam locomotive (if she doesn't go, she won't stop!).

                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      The multiplication table is not available to everyone, unfortunately.


                      Your sad example reflects the tragedy of the fact that you never met her.

                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      Do you understand the organization of production?


                      Unfortunately for you, yes. And, so it is not necessary right away, "right off the bat" to confuse military production with civilian.
                      For immediately you discover all your nakedness, all the outright shame of your incompetence.

                      Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                      Yes, you understand the German economy?


                      I'm afraid there are enough experts there even without me. Otherwise, why would they protest there? In "Europe" in general and in "Fatherland" in particular?

                      Proof: "Thousands of Europeans went to rallies against a trade agreement with the United States" (http://lenta.ru/news/2015/04/19/miting/)

                      Didn't you "notice" this?
                      What a you, what, the right word - ubo_gy ...
                      1. iv_v virtual 2
                        iv_v virtual 2 6 June 2015 19: 34
                        -2
                        Your IP is changing for the 3rd time. It was Romanian, then American, now Kazakh. What are you using? This question is untied from the topic of discussion.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        The whole "insert" consisted only of the name of that

                        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                        Not at all. I assumed that anyone who comments on Farley's article will read it. This position seemed offensive to many, for some reason.

                        Try reading my quote 10 times. Then take a break for half an hour and read another 10 times. There is some likelihood that its meaning will reach you.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        no need <...> to confuse military production with civil

                        Apparently, organizing the first is much easier for you. Such specialists as you are supported by Russia. No matter how it is.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        For immediately you discover all your nakedness, all the outright shame of your incompetence.

                        Curly. Are you trying to work in the field of "intellectuals"? They don't write like that.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        http://lenta.ru/news/2015/04/19/miting/

                        If you read the material on your link, you would be aware that the (so far non-existent) treaty is criticized by the left on the grounds, first of all, that it is a "hurricane that will sweep away the rights of citizens."
                        In my opinion, the transition to the topic of protecting human rights can only mean that there are no rational arguments against this venture. However, it would be strange to expect you to distinguish between rational economic arguments and cheap left-wing slogans.
                      2. VSkilled
                        VSkilled 6 June 2015 20: 32
                        0
                        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                        What are you using?


                        Ничего, кроме OSI (https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A1%D0%B5%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%BC

                        %D0%BE%D0%B4%D0%B5%D0%BB%D1%8C_OSI)

                        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                        Try to read my quote 10 times ...


                        What "methods" do you have ... Do you take "hammering", therefore? That is to say - a stupid bison?

                        Eh ... Own "dumalka", therefore, is not functional ...
                        Therefore ble_votina "from Farley" and others like him is perceived with such ... reverence. With you - "everything is clear".

                        Nevertheless - you can say "sugar" 100 times, then take a break and repeat the exercise any number of times. It will not become sweeter - alas.

                        For those who have their own "cerebellum", such truths do not need experimental verification.

                        So with the article ... I assure you - if something looks like a piece of shit - it’s not at all necessary to taste it to make sure once again: yes, really - crap ...

                        Or is it stupidly insulting to you that you personally tasted, but the rest didn’t? Here, you are advertising it ...

                        Quote: iv_v virtual 2
                        If you read the material on your link ...


                        No, but this naive - just kicks a tear ... (I blow my nose loudly.)

                        Why "planet production" - in Southeast Asia (China, etc.)?

                        Because - it's cheap: salaries are small, there are no pension contributions, you don't have to pay for medicine, "for the environment".

                        Who runs the business there? US financial sector. (Money -> money, production itself has long been outside the United States).

                        What are the financial opportunities for this sector? Limitless (owed to the whole world + personal printing press for money).

                        Can the EU, or rather Germany, "compete on an equal footing" with the US (FRS)? Funny ... of course not!

                        What will happen when the US financially "utilizes" Europe? Manufacturing in Europe will become unprofitable.

                        With all the sad "consequences" for the bulk of the working people ... (even if everyone becomes "creative genius", there will still be SO MANY people to arrange there.)

                        So that the people are buzzing - it’s quite justified for themselves.

                        PS. The topic "Armata", as I see it, is not at all interesting to you. It is quite symptomatic for a "stoker" troll, called up exclusively "for throwing guano on the fan."
                        Bored with you. Farewell.
                      3. iv_v virtual 2
                        iv_v virtual 2 7 June 2015 09: 45
                        -2
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        except OSI

                        Not a very specific answer. Okay, I'll figure it out myself.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        stupidly insulting

                        Do not read long texts - this is your position in principle. I already understood.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        Why "planet production" - in SE Asia

                        Apparently, because you heard a lot of different clowns at the exit, like Mr. Khazin. If you were to perceive long texts, I could give you links to statistics. USA, EU and China are comparable in size industrial sectors.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        production itself has long been outside the US

                        This is just a lie.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        owe the world + personal printing press for money

                        You do not see the connection between your words? If the state takes money, which itself prints, then the debt is an accounting fiction. US debt - the right pocket owes to the left. As far as I remember, the only state that defaulted on debt in the national currency is Russia in 1998. But in the United States, fortunately, there are no such specialists.
                        As for the printing press, the only limitation on emissions is inflation. In the USA, it has only risen above 2008% since 2009, only twice (2011 and 2). Compare with the ruble. Why this happens is obvious enough.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        Can the EU, or rather Germany, "compete on an equal footing" with the US (FRS)?

                        As far as I know, the German government and German business perceive the situation differently. Apparently, they are less informed than you.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        production long ago outside the USA

                        Quote: VSkilled
                        What will happen when the US financially "utilizes" Europe?

                        Is the USA conspiring with the governments of Europe and the European Commission to destroy Europe in the name of Chinese dominance? You came up with an original theory, you have never come across before. Congratulations.
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        The topic "Armata", I'm looking - you are not at all interested

                        And what, did you say something about her?
                        Quote: VSkilled
                        Farewell.

                        Goodbye.
  • high school student
    high school student 5 June 2015 14: 52
    +2
    An article about tanks, but this is what interested me:

    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    2. In the event of an international consensus regarding the actions of the RF Armed Forces in Ukraine and an international tribunal in this regard, Russian soldiers will most likely not be recognized as criminals. No one (most likely) will hold the 18-year-old Russian guys who have been living under Putin for 3 years responsible for the (alleged) crimes of the country's political leadership.


    this:

    This is the position of the leadership of the Russian Federation at the moment. She can change. In the Crimea, as you know, Russian military personnel appeared about a year after the events of February-March 2014.

    Quote: Altona
    What "consensus" is this passage born with in your head?

    By consensus, the rank and file are not responsible for the actions of the commander in chief.
    If you have read Mr. Farley's article, you know that "The Russian Army has used tanks <...> now in Ukraine" is perceived by this author as a well-known fact. He's not the only one who thinks so. If it suddenly turns out that Mr. Farley is right, and Mr. Lavrov is lying, then it turns out that the persons who gave the Russian Army such an order are war criminals, incl. in accordance with the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation (Article 353, up to 20 years).
    and here it is:

    You should have seen the film "Crimea, the Way to the Homeland". "Polite people" were not part of the Black Sea Fleet. The actions of the RF Armed Forces went far beyond the agreements on the deployment of the RF Black Sea Fleet in Crimea.
    Quote: Cynic
    perceived by this author as a well-known fact.

    Is this too complicated for you? People you know may have opinions that do not coincide with those of Mr. Farley. Nevertheless, I doubt that your acquaintances can claim the "international consensus". They should ask what countries and organizations consider Crimea to be a subject of the Russian Federation ...
    end of quote.

    And in fact, what are you going to judge the Russian military for, no matter what the “international” tribunal is? During all the "Crimean" events, not a single person was killed by the actions of the Russian military. Then what is the corpus delicti of the jurisdiction of the tribunal? If you mean the territorial integrity of a country called Ukraine, then the Russian military has nothing to do with this issue. And the former citizens of Ukraine from among those who lived and live in the Crimea. What is the crime? One can argue in the international courts about the legitimacy of the referendum results without taking into account the opinions of the rest of Ukraine. But even in this matter in the existing international legal practice this opinion is not required to be taken into account. Then what is the fault of the leadership of the Russian Federation? What is a tribunal akin to Nuremberg?
    And about the international consensus. If someone’s opinion differs from the opinion of the “leading world powers”, then there is no “consensus”.
    1. iv_v virtual 2
      iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 25
      -2
      Virtual 3 has technical problems, I will answer for it.
      You apparently lost the thread of discussion. It's pretty messy, I agree.

      1. There was a thesis that military personnel are not responsible for waging an aggressive war, since this is the prerogative of the political leadership. Of this, no soldier, including a Wehrmacht soldier, can be considered a criminal only on the basis that he is a soldier and engages in an illegal war.
      2. In developing this thesis, it was said that the Russian military personnel, if the "common opinion" of Western countries about their participation in an aggressive war is considered by the tribunal, most likely will not be held accountable on the basis of collective guilt. Personal blame will be placed on the country's political leadership.
      3. To this, the user of Altona indicated that, according to statements by the leadership of the Russian Federation, employees of the RF Armed Forces do not participate in events in Ukraine.
      4. Virtual 3 drew the attention of the respected Altona, that the leadership of the Russian Federation can change its position on the availability of military personnel abroad, including retroactively. Therefore, the public statements of the commander in chief in this case are not something important for discussion.

      Specifically, the problem of the status of Crimea was not considered.

      Quote: high school student
      If someone’s opinion differs from the opinion of the “leading world powers”, then there is no “consensus”.


      The issue of price. Mr. Milosevic managed to buy from the government of Serbia for $ 1 billion, if I am not mistaken. Prior to this, there was no consensus, but suddenly appeared.
  • Thompson
    Thompson 5 June 2015 14: 53
    +2
    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    Quote: Alexey RA
    these lamentations about the victims of the Nazi regime

    This is not a moan. This is the position of the Nuremberg Tribunal, which the Russian legislator does not recommend revising.

    The Wehrmacht was not recognized as a criminal organization. The Soviet side (unsuccessfully) offered to recognize OKW and the General Staff as a criminal organization, but not the Wehrmacht as a whole.
    The war crimes you described were attributed by the tribunal to the leadership of the NSDAP, which ignored the 1929 Geneva Convention.

    The Stalag you mentioned was not organized by tankers - conscripts. Yes, they are guilty that they did not run away from the draft in Switzerland, but the tribunal considered this excusable, you know.

    I read you, read and ... did not understand. As in that joke, whose friend are you, mine or bear ???
    No matter how it looks from the LEGAL point of view, the annexation of Crimea (what I personally do not care!) Is much more important that it was the choice of its people, and not the whim of the GDP or someone else.
    Who does not like, let them strangle themselves!
    And if you are so truthful, let's discuss everything that has happened in the world recently. Iraq, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Yugoslavia .... What did the West forget in these countries ??? Was it once their territory, it’s a little chorus, were their citizens killed in them? simply put, you just got in and didn't know how to get out, saving your face. And rightly so
    1. iv_v virtual 3
      iv_v virtual 3 5 June 2015 15: 20
      -4
      Sorry, but you are trying to replace the facts with doctrines.

      There is no need to discuss from the LEGAL and even more MORAL point of view, all the events you indicated. There may be a lot of questions to them, but in all the cases you listed there is not a single player who would be interested in revising the results of the game. In the case of Crimea, such players are half a globe. "International law" is simply the consent of the major players to certain actions.
      Serbia recognized Kosovo’s independence and extradited its former president to The Hague if you aren’t in the know. Former Iraqi and Libyan leaders have not reached the Hague. Syria and Afghanistan are also not the best places to live now. I’m not sure that this is exactly the future that we would like for our country. I would at least not want that. And it will be very difficult for you to convince me that the leadership of the states you listed is not to blame for what happened to them.

      I have never been sensitive to the problem of finding the truth. More interested in the balance of interests. You're worried about my face in vain.
  • uragan114
    uragan114 5 June 2015 15: 52
    0
    Quote: Sochi
    little article so-so ... Especially chatter about the "best" Abrams. Experts are still undecided which tank of the Second World War is better, due to the different approach to requirements. And here, in passing, declaring superiority, like we have all the best ...


    Each sandpiper praises its swamp.
  • Free wind
    Free wind 5 June 2015 16: 38
    0
    Alas. I wanted to read who thinks about new tanks. Unfortunately, few people think, Oh well, all with the upcoming weekend, maybe I can annoy the garden.
  • Tusv
    Tusv 5 June 2015 16: 58
    0
    On May 30, the American edition of The National Interest published an article by Robert Farley titled Russia's Mighty T-14 Armata Tank: Should America Be Worried? (“Mighty Russian Armata Tank: Should America Worry?”).

    Here they stand, they must be afraid and tremble distinctly. The heavy platform of Artat is relatively light, therefore, on the BDK you can place equipment 30% more. Moreover, watercraft for this platform are being actively developed. o5 yet, purely theoretically independently can overcome the Bering Strait
    1. iv_v virtual 2
      iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 19: 19
      -3
      Quote: Tusv
      can overcome the Bering Strait

      Thank God! At least someone explained why they were invented!
      I lived in the dark.
  • Banson
    Banson 5 June 2015 17: 32
    0
    As for whether the United States needs to worry about the T-14, yes - of course it should. Despite the fact that the tanks of the M1 "Abrams" series have perhaps the highest survivability and safety among all existing serial tanks, it is certainly far from the T-14 level. In this respect. The same applies to protection and to the onboard equipment. The only thing that "Abrams" can still play on is a weapon. Since the opportunity to put a more powerful cannon (adequate for the T-1) in the M14 is apparently available. In any case, there are no visible obstacles to this.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 5 June 2015 18: 18
      +1
      Quote: Banson
      M1 "Abrams" have perhaps the highest survivability and safety among all existing serial tanks,

      And why did they offend the Chariot?
      And about survivability, few tanks that could boast. that they could fill up from the machine. from ordinary Kalash.
      1. Banson
        Banson 5 June 2015 19: 00
        0
        Quote: Cynic
        And why did they offend the Chariot?

        And what about Carrot? I talked about survivability and safety, and not about armor protection. In terms of armor protection, our T-90A is the most powerful. But survivability is a little different. Survivability is the ability of the tank to work or, in any case, save the crew’s life if the armor has already been pierced.
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 6 June 2015 18: 20
          0
          Quote: Banson
          I talked about survivability and safety, and not about armor protection.

          Everyone has the right to their opinion, I just became interested in such an interpretation of the technical characteristics of Abrams.
          But this is not the point, as far as I remember it is at Merkava that these parameters are categorical imperative, and not only her, but all their equipment.
          And how such an attack was missed by our worst friends ...
          By the way, you very arbitrarily interpret the basic properties of armored vehicles.
          Tank survivability - the property of a tank to maintain and restore its combat capability under the influence of the enemy. The ability to withstand the damaging effects of the enemy and maintain combat effectiveness is called protection. It is determined by the size of the tank as a target, the design of its armor protection, layout, the presence of protective systems that reduce the likelihood of enemy shells getting into the tank and their armored effect, the crew’s ability to use the protective properties of the terrain, etc. The tank’s ability to repair after combat damage is called recoverability (maintainability). It depends on its design, security and the capabilities of the existing recovery system.

          hi
  • Yuri from Volgograd
    Yuri from Volgograd 5 June 2015 17: 36
    -1
    I liked the article.
    All our articles are in the style of cheers of patriotism, and this is a one-sided option.
    PR, and more and more I want facts, not dreams.
  • Andr79
    Andr79 5 June 2015 18: 09
    0
    Fight will show
  • Banson
    Banson 5 June 2015 18: 18
    0
    Quote: Andr79
    Fight will show

    If he will. In addition, a bunch of factors can influence the outcome of a tank battle, which will largely distort the real capabilities of armored vehicles. I am personally firmly convinced of one thing - about no export of T-14. Or even partial declassification of its design is out of the question. And God forbid that these T-14s would fall into the hands of our stupid corks, but like "allies". Iraq, Iran, something else like that. Then those factors about which I spoke will declare themselves in full. We don't need a new Desert Storm. We still cannot wash off the old one.
    1. Zionist30
      Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 22
      0
      when tanks armata merkava leopard and abrams meet on the tank bodminton in the steppes of Ukraine or in the non-chernozem zone? we will look huh huh
    2. Zionist30
      Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 22
      0
      when tanks armata merkava leopard and abrams meet on the tank bodminton in the steppes of Ukraine or in the non-chernozem zone? we will look huh huh
  • Sasha75
    Sasha75 5 June 2015 19: 01
    0
    About Bradley is a comedic documentary based on memories and documentary facts, and the cost of its development is impressive. And do not forget that the Americans are not producing tanks now, but only repairing them, just as many weapons are only being modernized and repaired. In their doctrine that the next 25 years of the enemy, their abrams is not foreseen, as well as many weapons that they have in service, so the T14 certain plop in their doctrine needs to be somehow justified. But the country they have a lot of paper will print a lot of money will build a new plant, but that’s what they will do xs here and there is a reassurance of themselves.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 5 June 2015 23: 15
      0
      In their doctrine that the next 25 years of the enemy, their abrams is not foreseen, as well as many weapons that they have in service, so the T14 certain plop in their doctrine needs to be somehow justified.

      How does the T-14 interfere with their doctrine, may I ask? She, this doctrine, is focused on contactless warfare, when enemy tanks are cut from the air. Or does the T-14 have something to oppose the same Apache with a couple of packs of anti-tank missiles on board? I doubt something.
  • Zionist30
    Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 20
    -1
    [quote = Malkor] This T-90 is not successful in Magniera. 6 Iranian soldiers who arrived in Damascus are just the vanguard of a larger contingent, whose task is to close the gap created by the undisguised aggression of Turkey and other states in northern Syria. The Turks “crossed the red line” and this is what caused the deployment of Iranian and Iraqi units. A similar answer will be given to the “friends of Israel” in the south of the country.

    Arriving 6 thousand people have already been transferred to combat positions - in Deraa, Hama and Latakia. Their mission is to maintain control over what is happening until reinforcements arrive. These forces will not be used as the vanguard of counterattacks aimed at the return of territories and cities captured by Jabhat al-Nusra, ISIS or CCA.

    The representative of the operational headquarters of the “Axis of Resistance” forces in Damascus rejected rumors persistently spread in the opposition and Arab press about the coordination of the regime and ISIS: “This is a delusional statement that does not deserve comment. ISIS is the enemy of not only the Syrian regime, ISIS is the enemy of the whole world, primarily the countries of the region. Syria is not going to fight instead of the whole world with ISIS. On the contrary, the international community should join in and, together with Syria, make every effort to eliminate this organization. And if this does not happen, we and our allies will focus on strengthening and protecting the capital and the cities that remain under our control, and let ISIS spread outside Syria - to some countries in the Middle East, as well as to African and Islamic countries. ”

    The source said that a completely new situation has arisen in Syria, we are talking about a direct clash between Turkey and Iran in the north of the country. Turkey provided a logistics and support base for Jabhat al-Nusra, which acts as a Turkish proxy. As a result, Idlib and Jisr al-Sugur were captured. Syria has faced the same kind of problem in the south - in Kuneitra and Deraa, where Israel provides local forces with logistics, intelligence, and medical care for the wounded. That is why the Syrian leadership intends to completely reconsider the strategy of warfare and the deployment of troops on the ground, in particular, given the fact that in these areas, the Opp ”is sending more and more new units to Kalamun - without having to recall at least one of its officers from Damascus . A source said: “War plans are changing and adapting to reality on the ground, taking into account understanding.”
    1. iv_v virtual 2
      iv_v virtual 2 5 June 2015 23: 27
      -1
      Thank you for the news from a parallel world where Iran has a border with Syria.

      What was it all about?
  • Zionist30
    Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 26
    0
    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    Oh you bunny.

    "The site is strictly prohibited:

    .

    b) Inciting ethnic hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, Khokhlyandiya, Jew, USA, bulbash, Talaponets, chock, khachik, Azerbaijani, cross-eyed, b, Rashka (in general, the mention of Russia and Russianness in a derogatory form) and other similar turns of unnatural speech "

    It is very successful, it seems to me that your statements, according to the site moderators, are not "incitement". At least, judging by the "face" of the site.

    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    Oh you bunny. and I am silent I mute like a fish

    "The site is strictly prohibited:

    .

    b) Inciting ethnic hatred. This also includes the use of such words and derivatives as: crest, Khokhlyandiya, Jew, USA, bulbash, Talaponets, chock, khachik, Azerbaijani, cross-eyed, b, Rashka (in general, the mention of Russia and Russianness in a derogatory form) and other similar turns of unnatural speech "

    It is very successful, it seems to me that your statements, according to the site moderators, are not "incitement". At least, judging by the "face" of the site.
    1. Zionist30
      Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 48
      0
      and all our tanks are the best in the world and we will prove it
      1. Zionist30
        Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 53
        0
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYtM0WuiWS0#t=49
      2. Zionist30
        Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 53
        0
        https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VYtM0WuiWS0#t=49
    2. Zionist30
      Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 48
      0
      and all our tanks are the best in the world and we will prove it
  • Zionist30
    Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 47
    0
    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    A quote was given from the forum rules. Your attitude to nicknames is your personal choice and cannot extend to the norms of communication with others.

    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    A quote was given from the forum rules. Your attitude to nicknames is your personal choice and cannot extend to the norms of communication with others.

    Quote: iv_v virtual 3
    A quote was given from the forum rules. Your attitude to nicknames is your personal choice and cannot extend to the norms of communication with others.

    our tanks are the best in the world
  • Zionist30
    Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 50
    0
    Quote: major124
    What is there in words: crest, Jew and Azerbaijani?

    and if I write that the best tank in the world is Merkava M4 it is that inciting ethnic hatred or unconventional vocabulary is simply
  • Zionist30
    Zionist30 5 June 2015 23: 55
    0
    Quote: iv_v virtual 2
    Thank you for the news from a parallel world where Iran has a border with Syria.

    What was it all about?

  • Zionist30
    Zionist30 6 June 2015 00: 38
    0
    [quote = cynic] [quote = iv
    No need to judge others by yourself. no need. [/ quote]
    and still the best tanks in the world are our weapons of victory, more than once tested in battles
  • Alexy
    Alexy 6 June 2015 04: 06
    0
    I agree with the author. It’s hard to say whether or not a good tank. First you need to go through all the tests and run in a series. While the tank is raw. It is clear that he was brought to the parade with political overtones.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • gladcu2
    gladcu2 6 June 2015 19: 23
    0
    Yes, in general, no one argued that the tank is raw.
    There, the author skips a thought that as a commercial project with the possibility of selling abroad, the perspective of the same Indians is not visible.
    It seems to me that the statement has a rational link. No country buying a weapon will fund a pig in a poke.

    Discuss the t-14 from a technical point of view, I see no reason. All that is available is countless speculations of Internet experts.
  • Zionist31
    Zionist31 8 June 2015 00: 23
    0
    Quote: Malkor
    Is the T-90 not successful in exporting? Then abrams is a complete failure, something pin_dos completely lies. And the fact that Abrams dominates is complete crap.

    Israeli Deputy Minister of Regional Development, Druze and prominent functionary Likud Ayub Kara said in an interview with nrg: “We will not sit idly by when the massacre of our brothers begins in Syria. We are doing everything, and we will do everything possible and necessary in order to save them. I’m going to the Golan Heights to consult with community leaders in order to get the latest information about what is happening. ”

    Kara, when asked whether the Druze raised the issue of military intervention, replied: We cannot discuss such topics, we are doing everything possible to help. ”

    In recent weeks, Assad has suffered several serious defeats on several fronts - in the east, north and south of the country. According to reports from Syria, after the ISIS and Jabhat al-Nusra defeats in Idlib and Palmyra, the Syrian regime focused on protecting the western part of the country in the first place. Damascus, Homs and the coastal strip.

    Amid the withdrawal of the Syrian army, the penetration of jihadists began in the Druze districts. Last week, several ISIS gangs raided Jabal Druz, killing six community members. Druze are afraid of encirclement - from the east, from the Iraqi border, and from the west, in Kuneitra.

    The areas inhabited by the Druze are in the triangle between the borders of Iraq, Syria and Jordan and are actually the gateway to Jordan. Thus, the occupation of these territories will lead not only to the destruction of the Druze, but will create a direct threat to the northern border of Jordan, and even become a step on the road to Saudi Arabia.

    Saudi newspaper Al-Sharq Al Awsat, reporting these concerns, writes that Lebanese Druze leader Walid Jumblatt said he received a promise of direct intervention from Jordan in the event of a massive jihadist invasion of the Jabal Druz area. The newspaper, however, writes that Jordan has never made such a promise, partly because the Druze supported Assad and his Shiite axis partners in the civil war.

    Meanwhile, the actual destruction of the Druze community in Syria, according to reports on social networks has already begun. In Idlib, a province abandoned by Syrian troops, there are several Druze villages. Jabhat al-Nusra occupied 14 Druze villages in the region of Mount Samak, located 20 km north of Idlib. There was no resistance.

    After occupying the villages, Jabhat al-Nusra destroyed the Druze houses of prayer and demanded that they convert to Islam. Young men of draft age were hijacked to war with the Assad regime. At the moment, al-Nusra is busy destroying the culture and religion of the Druze - but she clearly will not stop before the physical destruction of members of the sect.
  • Garris199
    Garris199 8 June 2015 00: 32
    0
    She is already afraid. Armat, new frigates, ash trees, boreas, new ICBMs, fighters, etc. Otherwise, why all this mess in Ukraine, sanctions, etc.? To undermine the economy, break off the cooperation of the military-industrial complex, and thwart (severely slow down) the rearmament of the Russian army.