Production of the Tu-160 will continue

A decision was made to resume the production of Tu-160 (White Swan) strategic bomber-rocket-carrying bombers, reports Rossiyskaya Gazeta With reference to the commander of the air force Viktor Bondarev.

“The special feature of the Tu-160 is the variable geometry of the wing, which allows you to select the optimum flight mode and save fuel. And the heavy strategist is distinguished by an unusually graceful contour of the fuselage and, one can say, graceful wings, ”the newspaper writes. In the west, he received the name Blackjack (Black Jack).

Main weapon modernized aircraft (Tu-160M) - "high-precision long-range cruise missiles, including with nuclear warheads." Maximum rocket-bomb load - 40 t.

A hypersonic cruise missile is being developed specifically for it, but now it is X-555 and the latest X-101 in non-nuclear equipment. The range of the last flight reaches 10 thousand. Km.

At the modernized Tu-160M, which will be launched by the Kazan Aviation Plant, only digital equipment is installed - dial gauges will be a thing of the past. They will be replaced by monitor screens.

There are no self-defense guns on the rocket carriers, but there are powerful EW systems - good, the dimensions of the machine allow it. With such protection, the aircraft becomes invulnerable to the vast majority of guided missiles.

“The EW is so powerful that it is not turned on to average power even during exercise,” say the experts. - Moreover, the enemy fighter radars will not see our swan at close range. The high-speed characteristics allow the heavy rocket carrier to get away from the interceptors long before reaching the visual contact. ”

Bondarev said that the Ministry of Defense will purchase at least 50 machines. "It will be purchased to recoup all the costs that will go to the reproduction of the Tu-160, at least 50 boards with time," - he said.

At the same time, he stressed that the purchase of “White Swan” will not affect the continuation of work on the creation of PAK DA. The project will not be suspended. “We have no right to do this,” he added.

Manufacturer Help: “The range of the Tu-160M with the maximum ammunition in weight is 10500 km. With a normal load - 14000 km. At the same time, the flight range of the cruise missiles that it carries on board reaches 10000 km.

The supersonic speed of the aircraft is over 2000 km / h. Ceiling -15600 meters. Crew - 4 person. Initially, the Tu-160 was to deliver long-range X-12 cruise missiles with fusion warheads to the 55 launch area. The upgraded aircraft will carry conventional missiles and bombs. "

Comments

[boa constrictor]

From pokon centuries, in Russia, the White Swan was considered a symbol of love and peace !! So be it - until the end of time !! More White Swans - and the world will be kinder !!

[Baikonur]

BE GOOD!
Of course, good news! Indeed - these are white swans!

[boa constrictor]

Although, once in the park, one swan beat me in the knee so beak !! And then he tried to drive me, a parasite !!

[afrikanez]

Well, they are jealous No need to pester the female!

[Eugene-Eugene]

to the end of ages !!

There is nothing eternal - read the basics of thermodynamics

[Reserve officer]

That's wonderful. The machine is decades ahead of its time, and with serious modernization it will serve Russia for a very long time.
And the name matches - just handsome. Well, combat capabilities are a separate story. No wonder our "White Swan" is called "Black Jack" among the staff ...

[Glaaki]

"Blackjack" is translated differently.

[gjv]

Quote: Glaaki

"Blackjack" is translated differently.

Our White "club"for theirs BarDaka.

[Dormidont2]

kr x-101 can be suspended on helicopters. (you can shoot from the depths of the territory of the Russian Federation, change positions at a time) so as not to violate the INF Treaty, it will be cheap and cheerful for foreign "partners")

[remy]

For some reason, no one touches on the possible modernization in the form of increasing countermeasures to fighter aircraft and AWACS aircraft. So for reflection !!! Perhaps the Tu-160M ​​will receive air-to-air missiles: ks-172, 9M317M. That is to say, long-range and over-long interception.

[Vadim237]

50 planes - they probably decided to launch our economy around the world, they will find an extra trillion rubles from us.

[Lenivets]

Well, not a trillion, but at least half as much.
And not at a time, but over the course of 8-10 years (i.e. no more than 50 billion a year).
So there is less emotion.

[Vadim237]

A plane will cost 16 billion - one NK 32 engine for mass production will cost one and a half billion rubles, plus another complete re-equipment of the plant with new machines, materials, training new personnel and support for all subcontractors - that’s a trillion rubles.

[gjv]

Quote: Reserve officer

Yes, and the name matches - just handsome.

Tu-160 "Alexander Novikov" board number 12, registration number RF-94109, probably Engels, 2013

[Lord of the Sith]

How much will they make 50 units? There probably a maximum of 3 will fit on the line ...

[FID]

Quote: Sith Lord

How much will they make 50 units? There probably a maximum of 3 will fit on the line ...

In Soviet years, KAPO produced no more than 4 Tu-160 per year, if suppliers did not fail. The factory was FULLY staffed. Next, think for yourself ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: SSI

In Soviet years, KAPO produced no more than 4 Tu-160 per year, if suppliers did not fail. The factory was FULLY staffed. Next, think for yourself ...

Maybe a new factory with assembly shops will be rebuilt for this business ... in order to execute the order in 50 machines relatively quickly, it is necessary to produce 10 machines a year, and for this the capacity of the existing assembly lines is clearly not enough.

[FID]

Quote: NEXUS

Maybe a new factory with assembly shops will be rebuilt for this business ..

New plant ... Who will say how many years the new plant will be built? Here, DAM instructed to build a new plant on the territory of KAPO ...

[NEXUS]

Quote: SSI

Who will say how many years the new plant will be built?

But in another way, it is not cost-effective and efficient to resume production for a small batch of these machines. Therefore, I see only such a solution: to create new assembly lines in a new plant. But then several questions arise.
First, where can I get specialists and engineers who will be in the subject?
Second, how long will the new assembly line be built?
Third, where to get the money from?
Fourth, the issue of import substitution.

[FID]

Quote: NEXUS

Fourth, the issue of import substitution.

With import substitution, there is nothing imported and there was nothing.

[NEXUS]

Quote: SSI

With import substitution, there is nothing imported and there was nothing.

I think, despite the exorbitism of this project, they will also rebuild the assembly line and start production. Moreover, I think so, if the conversation began, then it will all be very soon (if not already, somewhere at a shocking pace they are not building a new plant)
And later these new lines will come in handy in the construction of PAK DA.

[Iline]

According to my data, Bondareva simply carries in an incomprehensible direction on a level ground.
Money for defense orders until 2020 is allocated for the implementation of specific deliveries of specific types of weapons. Tu-160 is not in this list. The construction of 50 of these aircraft costs huge money and takes a lot of time. An hour per teaspoon in our situation will not work.
Where was he going to deliver them? Form new shelves? And where will they be based? In Ukrainian Uzin with Priluki or Kazakhstan Semipalatinsk? There are currently no suitable free lanes in Russia (the lane in Mozdok is simply killed in the trash, and it has become a bit close to the border in the current conditions).
Better work faster on PAK YES.

[Lenivets]

"You better work quickly on PAK YES."
Don't you think that a bird in your hand is better than ...
PACK YES this is not a locker to finish it faster.
This is a complex complex and it will be developed, tested, finalized, and adjusted by another 15-20 years.
And in this period it would be nice to have something in stock.

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: NEXUS

Quote: SSI

Who will say how many years the new plant will be built?

But in another way, it is not cost-effective and efficient to resume production for a small batch of these machines. Therefore, I see only such a solution: to create new assembly lines in a new plant. But then several questions arise.
First, where can I get specialists and engineers who will be in the subject?
Second, how long will the new assembly line be built?
Third, where to get the money from?
Fourth, the issue of import substitution.

To the point!
All of the above, unfortunately, is extremely relevant.
Even simply, there are practically no less specialized workers, given the described manners.
They can’t really collect the same Superjet (by the way, it flew by for the first time yesterday, the impression was from Lada Priora, but it’s great anyway, although it’s 70% imported), what can we really dream about Swans.
About construction sites, finance, import substitution is no less topical.
Alas, it is hard to believe. Too much is lost.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Alas, it is hard to believe. Too much is lost.

So let them try and make up. They will fail the "Swan" program how to drink - but they can at least prepare for PAK YES

[demon is ada]

At that time there were no these processing technologies and composite technologies, now you can rivet very smartly Well, not just like cars on an assembly line, but in much the same spirit ...

[ancient]

Quote: Sith Lord

How much will they make 50 units?

For the rest of my life !!! And not the mediocre "air specials from the media", but the entire plant !!!

Article BOLD MINUS !!!! Gentlemen ADMINISTRATORS ..... Are you ... you turn the sais into a piece of Yellow PRESS !!!
Stop typing NONSENSE ... otherwise people will honor and really believe that we have both the Commander-in-Chief and the Moscow Region and the High Command in general

Vladyka, +! The only correctly posed question!
Previously, you could only have one .... now 2 in the aggregate and one in the assembly ... IN THEORY !!!

Now, according to the "alleged" speech of the GAVKOM Here is what the Air Force Chief actually said - the Commander-in-Chief said that Cost-effective production of the NEW Tu-160 will be in the production of at least 50 units!
And the "grief journalist" blurted out that commander in chief announced the decision to buy 50 units

And there and then a pack of "urya-patriots" with joyful squeaks and squeals ... we will break everyone ... rushed !!!!

It is clear that "urya-patriots" we basically have everything well ... people are "official" or what .... but the same journalists are already taking EG graduates ????

[Harabad]

you can sit, plump, complain about corruption, etc. etc.
And already it was like that, no one believed either (whether Putin can do this, another question):

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: Charabad

you can sit, plump, complain about corruption, etc. etc.
And already it was like that, no one believed either (whether Putin can do this, another question):

And you ask Serdyukov. He probably has his own opinion for the fight against embezzlers and corruption and he knows more than all of us in the forums much more.
I’m afraid that the answer will be - They don’t leave their own ...

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

I'm afraid that the answer will be

... we are not 37 years old

[Aleksandr1959]

The Commander-in-Chief said that the production of the NEW Tu-160 will be profitable with the production of at least 50 units!
And the "grief journalist" blurted out that the commander-in-chief announced the decision to buy 50 units

Alexander, now it is clear where the figure of 50 units came from. It's good that you give real information on these "modernizations" and other journalistic crap.

[Lenivets]

"PRODUCTION OF NEW Tu-160 WILL BE PROFITABLE when producing at least 50 units!"
Please enlighten what is the cost-effective production of military equipment not intended for sale?
Or maybe it means that the price will simply drop to a more acceptable level (but these are different things).
Further, if they buy not 50, but 10-20, then better than nothing.
At the same time, they will establish a production line, relations with suppliers, and train personnel.
Why are you so outraged?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Lenivets

Please enlighten what is the cost-effective production of military equipment not intended for sale?

Factories do not sell military equipment to the state at cost, there is always a mark-up.
Profitability of sales - the ratio of profit from sales to the cost of sales. And the cost includes R&D costs as well.
In this case, it is more likely about payback. That is, when the profit of the plants exceeds the cost of R&D.

[Lenivets]

And then the factories, the state pays?
Plants, and so it is clear at a loss will not work.
So profitability should probably relate to the one who pays?

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Lenivets

So profitability should probably relate to the one who pays?

Profitability always refers only to the manufacturer. From a state point of view, they talk about efficiency.
Efficiency - the productivity of the use of resources in achieving a goal.

Quote: Lenivets

And here plants, that state pays

Factories produce products, we are talking about payback. When developing a new passenger plane, for example, a lot of money is spent on R&D, and this same plane pays off only after the release of a certain number of these airliners. When the net profit from the sale of airliners exceeds the R&D costs.

[Lenivets]

I will try again.
The plant will not operate at a loss and the state will pay for R&D (and much more necessary for the resumption of production).
Profitability refers to the one who invests, you are just trying hard to prove that the plant will do everything at its own expense, and the MO will pay only for finished products. This is, to say the least, unlikely.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Lenivets

I will try again.
The plant will not operate at a loss for R&D (and much more necessary for the resumption of production).

Today, the state invests money at the stage of production of prototypes, theoretical research and laboratory studies are carried out by the company's own funds. In the future, the state wants to transfer some enterprises to self-sufficiency, that is, a defense enterprise selling products abroad, and its own army makes a profit, which goes to research in the field of further development of armaments.

Quote: Lenivets

Profitability refers specifically to who invests

The state does not put the profit of the enterprise in its own pocket, so what kind of profitability for the state can we talk about? Only taxes are paid by the company to the treasury.

[Lenivets]

"Today the state invests money at the stage of production of prototypes, theoretical studies and laboratory studies are carried out by the enterprise's own funds." there is such a thing, but not for all developments.

"In the future, the state wants to transfer some enterprises to self-sufficiency, that is, a defense enterprise selling products abroad, and its own army makes a profit, which is directed to research in the field of further development of weapons." yes but not in this case. (they will not sell TU-160 abroad).

"What kind of profitability for the state can we talk about?" I also voiced this question.

[GSH-18]

Production of the Tu-160 will continue

[Lt. Air Force stock]

At least 50 new aircraft + 16 of those in service, total 66. Russia will have parity with the United States with B-1B over 60 aircraft.
Still, the Tu-22M3 aircraft 30 (+ to those 40 that are in service) to withdraw from conservation
and upgrade.

[Botanologist]

In this case, in fact, a swan is an extremely dangerous bird.
Firstly, one of the largest flying.
Secondly, in the arsenal of a swan there is not only a beak, but also claws (tarpaulin jackets tear with one stroke into the flaps), but the wing is the most dangerous. A blow of the wing (fold) breaks the jaw of a wolf.
So the world is peace, but it’s better not to succumb.

[Severomor]

And in the land of goodness and the stronghold of democracy yesterday an article about these carcasses. "Friends" know!)))

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/russia-set-triple-nuclear-supersonic-b


omber-force-12988

[Samaritan]

Better here, here in normal language :)

http://inosmi.ru/russia/20150529/228288694.html

[Throw]

From here I liked the comment:
"The thicker the Poplar grove and the more Swans in the sky, the quieter the scavenger will behave."

[NO PASARAN]

The most important task is to restore the production technology of the TU-160, and a deep modernization of the aircraft is necessary, after all, and for almost 30 years in operation.

[FID]

Quote: NO PASARAN

after all, and for almost 30 years in the ranks

30 years for an airplane is nothing, it’s time for maturity, but not old age ...

[aleks 62]

.... 30 years for an airplane - nothing, it’s time for maturity, but not old age ......

..... This is a lot ..... In those years when it was designed, the average resource was considered: calendar -20 years, flight 20 thousand hours, 5-7 thousand landings ..... The maximum is given for 30 years. ... Although there were also "strong" cars ... For example, in the GOSNII GA in Zhukovsky I was in the 80s IL-18 (laboratory), so it flew on the 3rd calendar (i.e. the actual flight time was more than 40 thousand flight hours) .... But this is more an exception than a rule .... What the plane turns into from the inside (closed cavities and compartments) after 10 years of operation can be seen in photos from repair plants (you can find it in Google). ...

[FID]

Quote: aleks 62

... This is a lot ..... In those years when it was designed on average, the resource was considered: calendar -20 years, flight 20 thousand hours, 5-7 thousand landings ..... Maximum is given 30 years ...

You lagged behind life a little ... IL-96-300 (in the AFL from the 89-90s of the last century) 60 lch, 000 landings, 10 years. It’s not enough for years, but a raid ... For the Tu-000, for landing, about half of the resource remained ...

[FID]

Quote: aleks 62

What the airplane is turning inside (closed cavities and compartments) after 10 years of operation can be seen in the photo from the repair plants (you can find it in Google) ....

I don’t need to google a climb, I work in aviation ...

[aleks 62]

...... I don’t need to climb Google, I work in aviation .....

...... To your health !!!! .... I already worked .....

[FID]

Quote: aleks 62

..... To your health !!!! .... I already worked ...

Thank you, but I’m already a pensioner, but I can’t live in retirement, so I’m working, and I’ll pass on my experience to my son, all the same, I’ve been working in aviation for more than 30 years, although in the USSR, I’ve been working more and more with long-range strategists, well, 154, and 62 little by little ...

[ancient]

Quote: aleks 62

: calendar -20 years, flying 20 thousand hours, 5-7 thousand landings ..... A maximum of 30 years is given.

For all airplanes and helicopters, upon release, resources and calendars are given: APPOINTED and CALENDAR and landing.
During operation, various bulletins are carried out, including strength bulletins (based on the data obtained on stationary tests from the SibNII ... where the plane flies "EVERNO" during station tests).
Therefore, during subsequent repairs to the aircraft, both CALENDAR and RESOURCE, including overhaul, increase.
An-12th for example .. there are already cars with an extension of up to 60 years according to the calendar ... and such machines as An-12PPS .. so they generally have a scanty bloom and do not consider themselves to be operated with a "load" .. dragged themselves their own "Beans" and "Bouquets" with "Azaleas" ... but what kind of "pants" did the guys make resonators and mufflers in general ... eternal !!!

[Rus2012]

Quote: ancient

where on station tests the plane flies "FOREVER"

Anything, BUT "the law of refusals from the resource" (the laws of distribution of refusals) has not been canceled, after 2/3 of the appointed, the costs of elimination will exceed the amount-that it is better to buy a new one!

[Rus2012]

Quote: aleks 62

calendar -20 years

Nah ... 25, four kapitalki through 5!

Quote: aleks 62

.What the airplane is turning inside (closed cavities and compartments) after 10 years of operation can be seen in the photo from the repair plants (you can find it in Google).

... so western Pepelats!
They have the same EU norm - on a car, the recommended resource is 5 years (it was = 8)
Manufacturers very good. I want the plants to spin!

On liners was also like ours = 25, but thanks to the efforts of lobbyists they’ve thought up something - they give airlines leasing for 10 years. Leasing ends - they are offered a new one, and used ones after capital - they are boarded up in third countries (Asia, Africa ... well, our companies were among them. Toko Aeroflot is trying to take it according to European and state standards).

Wait a minute - 10 will be made mandatory soon!

[Lenivets]

For an airplane, yes, 30 years is not age.
For the filling: radars, electronic warfare, communications, elemental base ... - this is not old age, but antiquity.

[URAL72]

The car is good, but very expensive to purchase, and most importantly in operation. We need a subsonic aircraft with an engine of the type developed by PD 14. The minimum weight at maximum range. Radar with AFAR, including in the tail. This will allow equipping the machine with long-range air-to-air missiles (as an option, a barrage interceptor, say for the Arctic and the Pacific Ocean). New EW tools. 24 t load. This is 12 KR for 2 tons each (for the future). The ability to base on runways from 1000-1200 m. The Tu-160 has none of this (except for electronic warfare), after a massive attack, it doesn’t have to sit down or fly up - 286 tons after all! I think you should not invest such a huge amount of money in reincarnation, while developing a new bomber. The only plus is the support and development of manufacturers, the preservation and training of personnel. But deep modernization must cope with this. In my opinion, this is a good disa, for our NATO ghana .. pid .. partners, oh!

[Lenivets]

"We need a subsonic plane"
Are you serious? Yes, he will fly to the goal for a week! He is not only interceptors, but even the maize will catch up.
"Radar with AFAR, including in the tail section. This will equip the vehicle with long-range air-to-air missiles."
That is, you do not need a strategic missile carrier, do you want an air cruiser with weapons for all occasions (trimmed in certain directions, but for everything)?

[prabiz]

Fly Swans - Fly!

[cardan]

I hope this is not another talk on the topic, but a real statement of the fact of the beginning of the restoration of production!

[FID]

Sorry, but this is just nonsense, not a statement of fact!

[Lenivets]

What do you think is nonsense - the number of aircraft or the possibility of restoring production?

[FID]

Quote: Lenivets

What do you think is nonsense - the number of aircraft or the possibility of restoring production?

In principle, both.

[kot28.ru]

Great news, Europe, in the person of the Young Europeans such as the Baltic states and Psheks, will fill the world with tears, Americans will poison the air with their cries of violating something else democratic later come up with what ,generally,Russia is getting up off its knees, it pleases! We look forward to the cry of our liberalism about the unleashing of an arms race by Russia!

[Funnels]

How I want to see a flock of "White Swans".

[boa constrictor]

And not one !! And so that they fly: back and forth !! With such - easy gurgling !! Lyapota !!

[sir_obs]

That's nice, the main thing is not limited to declarations, but just to do it.

[Ppsh]

50 boards Well, well, probably PAK-DA will be called Tu-160M, because our budget will not cope with 2 types of strategists ...

[Koshak]

Quote: PPSh

50 boards Well, well, probably PAK-DA will be called Tu-160M, because our budget will not cope with 2 types of strategists ...

While the PAK-DA is brought to the series, they will have time to make 50 "swans" and smoothly switch to the production of new aircraft.

[Vadim237]

There is not enough money for 50 swans.

[V.ic]

"And the white swan on the pond
Shakes a fallen star
....................
....................

In the meantime, not a stake
No yard and no garden, "

Felling "A white swan on the pond". Song Lyrics

[koksalek]

Good news! But nothing is said about the readiness of the material and technical base

[ancient]

Quote: koksalek

Good news!

Do you want one more? We have created a Huge Lunar Base and a whole squadron of Russian Intergalactic Cruisers is already based in Orbit and every man who is against us .. WE HAVE .. UNDER .. "CONTROL" !!!!
TRIENT, WE STAND UP WITH THE KNEE Well, etc. and in the same vein.

About what readiness ... what material and technical base ... what are you talking about ... do not drive into a stupor "urya-patriots", otherwise God forbid now ... "think" will start

[Yuri from Volgograd]

Quote: ancient

Quote: koksalek

Good news!

Do you want one more? We have created a Huge Lunar Base and a whole squadron of Russian Intergalactic Cruisers is already based in Orbit and every man who is against us .. WE HAVE .. UNDER .. "CONTROL" !!!!
TRIENT, WE STAND UP WITH THE KNEE Well, etc. and in the same vein.

About what readiness ... what material and technical base ... what are you talking about ... do not drive into a stupor "urya-patriots", otherwise God forbid now ... "think" will start

Well well, you ruined the whole surprise ... Asked not to tell!

[ancient]

Quote: Yuri from Volgograd

Well well, you ruined the whole surprise ... Asked not to tell!

I won’t be anymore

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: ancient

Quote: koksalek

Good news!

Do you want one more? We have created a Huge Lunar Base and a whole squadron of Russian Intergalactic Cruisers is already based in Orbit and every man who is against us .. WE HAVE .. UNDER .. "CONTROL" !!!!
TRIENT, WE STAND UP WITH THE KNEE Well, etc. and in the same vein.

About what readiness ... what material and technical base ... what are you talking about ... do not drive into a stupor "urya-patriots", otherwise God forbid now ... "think" will start

Be kind, do not provoke. Of course, the task is difficult, but adding fuel to the fire is an ungrateful task. Sincerely.

[veksha50]

The range of the Tu-160 itself is 10000 km, and even the missile range is 10000 km ...

It turns out very decently, it is not necessary to enter the air defense defeat zone ...

Will fly on alert, like a nuclear submarine ... always ready ...

And in an updated form - newer than the American ones, returned from the "stock", will be ...

[Aleksandr1959]

It seems that the Kazan plant will have to create the Tu-160 production in a new way.
Modification of aircraft is one thing, and the production cycle from scratch is another.
Let's hope that everything works out.

[ancient]

Quote: Alexander1959

Modification of aircraft is one thing, and the production cycle from scratch is another.
Let's hope that everything works out.

Sasha, hello +! Well, it can't be that you too .. "led" to this ... "hat"
They can't really modernize anything .. one barely "did" in 10 years, and then ... well, let's not talk about sad things, and the rest when, where and how ????
And then ... NEW ????
Not even funny

[Aleksandr1959]

Hello Alexander! Yes, I was interested in how KAPO named after Gorbunov is going to modernize both the PAK DA and new "seventy" rivets.
But in a new way, the production cycle should not even be restored, but created in a new way. And where are the experts ... By the way, this is the main question.

[FID]

Quote: Alexander1959

and new "seventy" rivet.

Have you encountered the "70 product"? Few know this cipher ...

[Aleksandr1959]

Back in 1980, I was a cadet of the Riga school in practice at the Kazan plant. There, at every step, there were posters: "We will fulfill the order of seventy ahead of schedule." Then in Akhtubinsk for several years before leaving for the department, he was a technician on the Tu-22M3. Then Tu-160 was called only "seventy".
And I saw it for the first time in Zhukovsky in 1983. I was an escort to pick up the load. Yes, and the hangar in the far lane was made for it ... those. the composition was trained in Zhukovsky .... but, faced with a number of problems with operation in Akhtubinsk, requiring large investments. For example, nitriding fuel.

[ancient]

Quote: Alexander1959

Back in 1980, I was a cadet at the Riga School in practice at the Kazan plant.

Then they were just going to "lay" the 2nd workshop ... the whole field was leveled ... I thought "I will still move the helicopter pilots."

[Aleksandr1959]

But the posters already hung in every workshop
Then the leaders of the practice brought us to the factory, warned VOKhR at the checkpoint so that the cadets would not be allowed out before 16:30 .... well, we went around everywhere ... where we were allowed.

[ancient]

Quote: Alexander1959

And where are the experts ... By the way, this is the main question.

Well, SSI for example .. in a pension .. for "citizens" works .. who is where ... the most important thing is Paton's institute .. ruined, but all the technologies and support for welding in "enormous sizes and volumes" .. were from there.

[gjv]

Quote: ancient

The most important thing is Paton's institute ... they ruined it, but all the technologies and support for welding in "huge sizes and volumes" .. were from there.

But technological installations and technical documentation on them at KAPO and Tupolev’s firm have not been preserved at all?

[Russian]

The best news in recent times!

[Engineer]

Great news! This whole industry is stirring now and adjacent to it. Aviation is a powerful locomotive of the entire high technology industry.

[Harabad]

I agree! Stalin made tanks for this, we will make White Swans. It is only necessary to understand that this super task will require the exertion of all forces. Is this about this? And on what resources will this new round of military modernization be implemented?

[xtur]

the production of 50 aircraft based on the payback of the project is already a serious application. It already looks like a decision to restore production. And then obviously no less than 50 PAK DA will be built, and we will get a long-range aviation fleet for 200 aircraft, which is very far from probable partners.

[atalef]

Quote: xtur

the production of 50 aircraft based on the payback of the project is already a serious application.

Payback project?
And how will they pay off?

Quote: xtur

And then obviously no less than 50 PAK DA will be built, and we will get a long-range aviation fleet for 200 aircraft, which is very far from probable partners.

How much profit will they bring?
Are you going to contract them for the transportation of potatoes or?

[Tanarri]

Payback project?
And how will they pay off?

They will sell half to China and India. What is not clear.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: atalef

Payback project?
And how will they pay off?

Very simple. Military equipment, like any other, is subject to business planning.
To begin with, let's understand that we do not have a goal to build 50 stratobombers. Or 3 aircraft carriers. Or 50 Ratnik sets. All this is not an end, but a means.
And the goal may be, for example, such - to incinerate the United States.
But as a rule there are several goals at once. For example, to be able to incinerate the United States in a nuclear conflict, ditch 2 AUGs that crept from any direction in a non-nuclear conflict, troll England and Japan in peacetime, and please Venezuela with a military presence.
You can build 100 mines of heavy ICBMs (we will incinerate the USA), a bunch of missile cruisers (troll England and Japan and participate in the destruction of the AUG) and aircraft carriers to cover the missile cruisers. It will cost some billion. You can build 50 Tu-160s - incinerate the United States, and in a non-nuclear conflict - kill the AUG (but there are also fighters for cover) in peacetime - troll England and Japan (Tu-95 vidmidiks are very good turns out) - it will cost so much billion.
In general, it is necessary:
a) Determine the range of tasks that we want to solve if necessary
b) Identify various options (that is, outfits of forces) for solving these problems
c) Determine the cost of these options.
d) Choose the best option in terms of "cost / efficiency" and implement it
Five Tu-160 will solve much less problems than 50 Tu-160. But at the same time, the plant must be built for at least 5 at least 50 aircraft. Accordingly, in the production of 5 aircraft, the price of completing the tasks that they can solve will become gold, but in the construction of 50, when the price of one aircraft falls, and the size of the tasks grow - that’s it :))

[atalef]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

Very simple. Military equipment, like any other, is subject to business planning.

Military equipment cannot be paid off a priori, you probably confuse a little, between the profit of the enterprise that produces it (you can be sure that you will not remain at a loss) and the customer - whose equipment this seems to be paid off , In your

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

You can build 100 mines of heavy ICBMs (we will incinerate the USA), a bunch of missile cruisers (troll England and Japan and participate in the destruction of the AUG) and aircraft carriers to cover the missile cruisers. It will cost some billion. You can build 50 Tu-160s - incinerate the United States, and in a non-nuclear conflict - kill the AUG (but there are also fighters for cover) in peacetime - troll England and Japan (Tu-95 vidmidiks are very good turns out) - it will cost so much billion.

So how ?
If they were released for a specific task, in accordance with a business plan
according to you - how, you, the plan is fulfilled or bankrupt - money wasted
Do not shy away from verbiage, pay off - this is to return (at least the money spent) - how military equipment can do it - maybe if only
in an alternate universe

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

but during the construction of 50, when the price of one aircraft falls, and the size of the tasks grow - that’s it :))

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: atalef

Do not contrive verbiage

My dear, you are talking with an economist with more than fifteen years of experience :))) That's when you get a couple of city-forming enterprises from losses to profit - then you will talk to me about verbiage :))) And maybe I will listen to you: )))

Quote: atalef

Military equipment cannot be paid off a priori, you are probably a little confused between the profit of the enterprise producing it (you can be sure that you will not remain at a loss) and the customer - whose equipment should be paid off belay, in your opinion

You confuse this, and not even a little bit, but a lot, and a lot of it.
Who orders military equipment? STATE. And what is a state?
It can also be likened to a commercial enterprise, it has its own costs and expenses, but in this case military costs are the security of the company. Moreover, the state is forced to spend much more (as a percentage) on its security than an ordinary company. Do you know why? Because a commercial joint-stock company is under the protection of the state and the law of this state - if it is unlawful - and the company can count on state support. Police, prosecutors, prisons ... But the State must take care of its own security.

Quote: atalef

If they were released for a specific task, in accordance with the laughing business plan
according to you - how, you, the plan is fulfilled or bankrupt - money wasted

In was such a Gaddafi. He had a decent country - Libya. A good firm, and earnings were good. But, alas, Muammar did not pay much attention to safety. And the evil raiders bankrupted the company, and Gaddafi himself was secured, and the once prosperous once-prosperous state - only ruins.
And so, for the general development - how long will a company called "Israel" hold out if it suddenly decides that the IDF cannot afford it? :)))

Quote: atalef

pay off is to return (at least the money spent)

This is the case with stupid Jews. And smart Jews pay off - this is to achieve their goals.

[ancient]

Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk

with an economist with more than fifteen years of experience:

Andrei, dear. So you are also an economist? I respect +!

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

Quote: ancient

Andrei, dear. So you are also an economist?

Eeee ... Yes :) I try, to the best of my humble industrial enterprises to give some life. Sometimes it even turns out what I'm proud of.
Still, the industry of the Power is its power and support, and over the past 25 years, the country's leadership on this support ... leaned on ... in full ... God, who am I telling ?! You might think you don’t know ... Well, the buffoon with him, with the government, will stand somehow. Russia seems to be not the first time.

[evge-malyshev]

You have already been asked to chat in some other place.

[xtur]

dear Azerbaijani friend - let's stay on the opposite side of the barricades, but silently. It is impossible to resolve our contradictions by talking. So it’s better for both of us not to comment on each other.

[Wedmak]

The news is good, but we are waiting for the solemn laying of the first batch. Three sides, at least!

[FID]

Quote: Wedmak

Three sides, at least!

Three center sections do not weld simultaneously. Previously, in the USSR, centerplans were laid in two to three months. There was only one chamber for welding a titanium center section at KAPO (now KAZ, it seems). What is it with now ??

[Wedmak]

There was one chamber for welding a titanium center wing at KAPO (now KAZ, it seems) was. What is happening with it now ??

But is it worth it to make another camera? And even a couple. After all, not only Tu-160 price plans will be cooked. In PAK DA go even a tighter construction. It’s also necessary to boil titanium.

[FID]

Quote: Wedmak

But is it worth it to make another camera?

The eternal question: where is the money, Zin? Aircraft factories eke out existence, they eke out ... After all, the infrastructure must be maintained, but remove kindergartens, dispensaries, etc. - who will go to work for a beggarly salary? Millions only tops get ...

[Wedmak]

Aircraft factories eke out existence, it eke out ..

Yes, I think without a kick from Putin everything will crawl like that. I don’t know why local authorities think that important projects can be stolen and braked. They spoil their country.
Here really it is necessary to return the article for sabotage. Moreover, with long periods, because it is done consciously and often by conspiracy.

[Aleksandr2012]

Tu-160 production will continue-here in Russian, they can’t write a headline without errors, and we wonder why rockets fall!

[Mountain shooter]

I always wrote, great car, well ahead of its time. and is now more relevant than ever. In terms of combat power, it is comparable to a nuclear submarine, but many times cheaper and faster. With a cruise missile range of 10000 km. (this is, for a moment, the range of the "Topol"), such a flying platform may not even leave the zone of our air defense!
And if anything, then you can cover Cuba in a matter of hours.

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: Mountain Shooter

I always wrote, great car, well ahead of its time. and is now more relevant than ever. In terms of combat power, it is comparable to a nuclear submarine, but many times cheaper and faster. With a cruise missile range of 10000 km. (this is, for a moment, the range of the "Topol"), such a flying platform may not even leave the zone of our air defense!
And if anything, then you can cover Cuba in a matter of hours.

And for what this minus to the people ???

[Iline]

People!
Do not be like fools to reporters. Well, it does not have an X-101, X-102 range of 10000 kilometers. Maximum 5500. And this is the maximum (anyone in the subject, he will understand).
and the news about the start of production of these aircraft left. Apparently, I wanted to wishful thinking.

[Boa kaa]

Good news, you can rejoice. Here are just a puppy’s delight borzapisets I can’t share:

there are powerful electronic warfare systems - fortunately, the dimensions of the machine allow this. With such protection, the aircraft becomes invulnerable to the vast majority of guided missiles.

And where will he defend himself from PRLS missiles aimed at active jamming stations?
Sucking the whole screen with "milk" is one thing. But to shoot a trap in time, or to turn on a towed one in time is completely different.
I don’t know how to do this without determining the distance to the rocket attacking you?

[Knight Rider]

It would be better if he said how much time it would take to prepare for the resumption of mass production and when about the first new serial (lead) aircraft made its first flight. From the 84th to the 87th, 4 production aircraft were built; from 1987 until the end of 1991, 19 new aircraft were put into service at the Priluki air base. And this is even under the mighty USSR, where there was a developed aviation industry and did not spare money for aviation. Now what? 50 planes, of course, is wonderful, but how long does it take you do not know? For example, Ulyanovsk Aviastar produces one, a maximum of two (this year), IL-476 per year, and today this is the limit, it is physically impossible to produce more. Here is such a reality

[Signaller]

For its part, as a power engineer, we will not allow blackouts, and in a good way. Always with you guys we’ll lie down with Kostya, but you will ALWAYS have electricity

[Pomah]

it means that in the next 10-15 years nothing new is expected ... maybe it is for the better. the parity arms race did a lot to knock down the USSR.

[dvina71]

Why not? PAK YES in its performance characteristics replacement for the old Tu-95 .., but no matter how TU-160 ..

[REXSTORZ]

All because the Americans were able to equip B1 with a cruise missile (as a nuclear warhead option)
Shortage of bombers + long development PAK YES
so the replacement of "Bear" is still needed

American cruisers "TIKHANDEROGA" 9500 displacement
122 launch containers for Tomahawk cruise missile (option to quickly equip a nuclear warhead)
so you can’t underestimate the enemy !!!!!

[FID]

the launch range of the Ax is about 2000-3000 ... Do you think they will sail along the Volga-Balt?

[sims2000]

It is pointless...

[Tanarri]

What are they needed for? There are enough carriers for a nuclear war, and no one will shoot at all terrorists with cruise missiles - it’s very expensive.

[Vadim237]

Looks like they want to replace the Carcass 95s, well, and catch up with the States in terms of the number of bombers and as a deterrent, too.

[Aslan]

They destroyed the aviation industry, now they realized it and decided to build strategists ?? the price of the issue is 2 yards per copy rubles if I am not mistaken. At least 100 yards for 50 pieces only the cost of aircraft in the conditions of the upcoming 15% optimizations in the Russian Ministry of Defense, which is already unobtrusively announced, is this or preparation for The third world war or spring stupefying the heads of some journalists.

[Ze Kot]

"The speed characteristics allow the heavy missile carrier to evade interceptors long before it makes visual contact."

Constantly in articles I see this phrase about eye contact. What a VISUAL CONTACT, if the range of detection and launch of missiles is tens of kilometers. Or are writing articles all dreaming of close maneuvering combat?

[Mishut37rf]

Quote: Vadim237

50 planes - they probably decided to launch our economy around the world, they will find an extra trillion rubles from us.

Let's not feed our "White Swans" - the survivors will feed the strangers ...

[Vadim237]

We will be able to build a maximum of 20 Carcasses, and then the budget will not pull, just at one time it was necessary to save 19 bombers in Ukraine, and now we, as fools, have to pay in tri-cost to return what was not so long ago.

[Crown]

If cruise missiles fly 10000 km., Then Tu-22, why not use them?

[Micross]

Class !!!))

[Mechislav]

The meaning of producing junk