Military Review

The history of the Kuril problem

22
The disputes over the four South Kuril Islands, which currently belong to the Russian Federation, have been going on for quite some time. As a result of agreements and wars signed at different times, this land passed from hand to hand several times. Currently, these islands are the cause of the unresolved territorial dispute between Russia and Japan.


Discovery of islands

The question of opening the Kuril Islands is controversial. According to the Japanese side, the Japanese were the first to set foot on island land in 1644. The map of that time with the notation “Kunashiri”, “Etorofu” and others printed on it was carefully preserved in the National Museum of Japan stories. But the Japanese pioneers, the Japanese believe, first came to the Kuril chain only in the time of Tsar Peter I, in 1711, and on the Russian map of 1721, these islands are called the “Japanese Islands”.

But in reality the situation is different: first, the first information about the Kuriles (from the Ainu language - “kuru” means “a person who came out of nowhere”) was received by the Japanese from the local people of the Ainu (the oldest non-Japanese population of the Kuriles and the Japanese islands) Hokkaido in 1635 year. And the Japanese themselves did not make it to the Kuril lands themselves due to constant conflicts with the local population.

It should be noted that the Ainu were hostile to the Japanese, and the Russians were initially treated well, considering them to be their “brothers”, because of the similarity in the appearance and methods of communication between Russians and small nations.

Secondly, the Kuril Islands was discovered by the Dutch expedition of Maarten Gerritsen de Vries (Vries) in 1643, the Dutch were looking for so-called. "Golden Lands". The Dutch did not like the land, and they sold a detailed description of them, a map to the Japanese. It was on the basis of Dutch data that the Japanese made their maps.

Thirdly, the Japanese at that time did not own not only the Kuriles, but even Hokkaido, only on its southern part was their stronghold. The Japanese began the conquest of the island at the beginning of the 17 century, and the struggle against the Ainu went on for two centuries. That is, if the Russians were interested in expansion, then Hokkaido could become a Russian island. This was facilitated by the good attitude of the Ainu towards the Russians and their hostility towards the Japanese. There are records about this fact. The Japanese state of that time did not officially consider itself a sovereign not only of Sakhalin and the Kuril lands, but also of Hokkaido (Matsumae), as the head of the Japanese government Matsudaira confirmed in his circular letter during the Russian-Japanese border and trade talks in 1772.

Fourth, Russian explorers visited the islands before the Japanese. In the Russian state, the first mention of the Kuril lands refers to 1646, when Nekhoroshko Ivanovich Kolobov gave an account to Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich about the campaigns of Ivan Yuryevich Moskvitin and told about bearded Ainas inhabiting the Kurils. In addition, the first Russian settlements in the Kuriles of the time are reported in the Dutch, Scandinavian and Germanic medieval chronicles and maps. The first reports of the Kuril lands and their inhabitants reached the Russians in the middle of the XVII century.

In 1697, during the expedition of Vladimir Atlasov to Kamchatka, new information about the islands appeared, the Russians explored the islands to Simushir (an island of the middle group of the Great Kuril Islands).

XVIII century

Peter I knew about the Kuril Islands, in 1719, the king sent a secret expedition to Kamchatka under the leadership of Ivan Mikhailovich Evreinov and Fyodor Fedorovich Luzhin. The marine surveyor Evreinov and the surveyor-cartographer Luzhin had to determine whether there is a strait between Asia and America. The expedition reached Simushir Island in the south and swore the locals and rulers to the Russian state.

In 1738-1739, the explorer Martyn Petrovich Shpanberg (Dane by origin) walked along the entire Kuril ridge, plotted all the islands encountered, including the entire Malaya Kuril ridge (these are 6 of large islands and a number of small islands that are separated from the Great Kuril South ridge -Kuril Strait). He explored the land up to Hokkaido (Matsumai), swearing in local Ainu rulers to the Russian state.

Later, the Russians avoided sailing to the southern islands, settling in the northern territories. Unfortunately, at this time there were abuses against the Ainu, not only by the Japanese, but also by the Russians.

In 1771, the Small Kuril Ridge was withdrawn from Russia and passed under the protectorate of Japan. To correct the situation, the Russian authorities sent a nobleman Antipin with a translator Shabalin. They were able to persuade the Ainu to restore Russian citizenship. In the 1778-1779 years, the Russian envoys brought more than 1,5 thousand people from Iturup, Kunashir, and even Hokkaido into citizenship. In 1779, Catherine II freed those who accepted Russian citizenship from all taxes.

In 1787, in the “Spacious Land Painting of the Russian State ...” a list of the Kuril Islands up to Hokkaido-Matsumai was given, whose status has not yet been determined. Although the Russians did not control the lands south of the island of Urup, the Japanese were active there.

In 1799, by decree of seyi-taysegun Tokugawa Ienari, he headed the Shogunat Tokugawa, two outposts were built on Kunashir and Iturup, and permanent garrisons were stationed there. Thus, the Japanese military method secured the status of these territories as part of Japan.

The history of the Kuril problem

Space image of the Small Kuril Ridge

Contracts

In 1845, the Japanese Empire unilaterally announced its authority over all Sakhalin and the Kuril ridge. This naturally caused a violent negative reaction from the Russian emperor Nicholas I. But, the Russian Empire did not have time to take measures, prevented by the events of the Crimean War. Therefore, it was decided to make concessions and not bring the matter to war.

7 February The first diplomatic agreement between Russia and Japan was concluded on 1855 - Shimoda agreement. He was signed by Vice-Admiral E. V. Putiatin and Tosiakira Kawaji. According to the 9 article of the treatise, "a permanent peace and sincere friendship between Russia and Japan" was established. Japan moved the islands away from Iturup and to the south, Sakhalin was declared a joint, indivisible possession. Russian in Japan received consular jurisdiction, Russian ships received the right to enter the ports of Shimoda, Hakodate, and Nagasaki. The Russian empire received the most favored treatment in trade with Japan and received the right to open consulates in the open ports of Russia. That is, on the whole, especially considering the difficult international position of Russia, the treaty can be assessed positively. Since 1981, the Japanese have been celebrating the day of the signing of the Simoda Treaty as the “Day of the Northern Territories”.

It should be noted that in fact the Japanese got the right to the “Northern Territories” only for “permanent peace and sincere friendship between Japan and Russia”, the most favored mode in trade relations. Their further actions de facto annulled this agreement.

Initially, the provision of the Shimodo agreement on joint ownership of the island of Sakhalin was more beneficial for the Russian Empire, which actively colonized this territory. The Japanese empire did not have good fleet, therefore, at that time did not have such an opportunity. But later, the Japanese began to intensively populate the territory of Sakhalin, and the question of its affiliation began to acquire an increasingly controversial and acute character. The contradictions between Russia and Japan were resolved by signing the St. Petersburg Treaty.

St. Petersburg Treaty. It was signed in the capital of the Russian Empire on April 25 (May 7) 1875. Under this agreement, the Japanese Empire transferred Sakhalin to Russia in full ownership, and in exchange received all the islands of the Kuril Ridge.


St. Petersburg Treaty of 1875 (Archive of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Japan).

As a result of the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905 and Portsmouth Peace Treaty 23 August (5 September) 1905, the Russian Empire, according to the 9 article of the agreement, ceded the south of Sakhalin to Japan, south of 50 degrees north latitude. The 12 article was an agreement to conclude a Japanese fishing convention along the Russian shores of the Sea of ​​Japan, the Sea of ​​Okhotsk and the Bering Sea.

After the death of the Russian Empire and the beginning of foreign intervention, the Japanese occupied North Sakhalin, participated in the occupation of the Far East. When the Bolshevik Party won the Civil War, Japan did not want to recognize the USSR for a long time. Only after the Soviet authorities in 1924 annulled the status of the Japanese consulate in Vladivostok and in the same year the USSR recognized the United Kingdom, France and China, did the Japanese authorities decide to normalize relations with Moscow.

Beijing Treaty. 3 February The official negotiations of the USSR and Japan began in Beijing in 1924. Only 20 January 1925 was signed the Soviet-Japanese Convention on the basic principles of relations between countries. The Japanese pledged to 15 May 1925, to withdraw their forces from the territory of Northern Sakhalin. The declaration of the USSR government, which was attached to the convention, emphasized that the Soviet government did not share with the former government of the Russian Empire political responsibility for signing the Portsmouth Peace Treaty of 1905. In addition, the convention enshrined the agreement of the parties that all agreements concluded between Russia and Japan before 7 November 1917 of the year, treaties and conventions, except for the Portsmouth Peace Treaty, should be revised.

In general, the USSR made big concessions: in particular, Japanese nationals, companies and associations were granted the rights to exploit natural raw materials throughout the entire Soviet Union. 22 July 1925 of the year a contract was signed for the coal concession to the Japanese Empire, and 14 of December 1925 of the year the oil concession on North Sakhalin was signed. Moscow agreed to this agreement in order to stabilize the situation in the Russian Far East in this way, since the Japanese supported the White Guards outside the USSR. But in the end, the Japanese began to systematically violate the convention, create conflict situations.

In the course of the Soviet-Japanese negotiations, which took place in the spring of 1941 on the occasion of the conclusion of a neutrality agreement, the Soviet side raised the question of liquidating Japan’s concessions on northern Sakhalin. The Japanese gave their written consent to this, but they delayed the implementation of the agreement during 3 years. Only when the USSR began to prevail over the Third Reich, did the Japanese government fulfill the agreement given earlier. Thus, 30 in March 1944 in Moscow signed a Protocol on the destruction of Japanese oil and coal concessions on North Sakhalin and the transfer to the Soviet Union of all Japanese concession property.

11 February 1945 year at the Yalta Conference the three great powers — the Soviet Union, the United States, and the United Kingdom — reached an oral agreement on the entry of the USSR into the war with the Japanese empire on the terms of its return to Southern Sakhalin and the Kuril Ridge after World War II.

In the Potsdam Declaration from 26 on July 1945, it was said that Japanese sovereignty would be limited only to the islands of Honshu, Hokkaido, Kyushu, Shikoku and other smaller islands, which would indicate the winning countries. The Kuril Islands were not mentioned.

After the defeat of Japan, January 29, 1946, by Memorandum No. 677, Commander-in-Chief of the Allied Powers, American General Douglas MacArthur excluded the Chisima Islands (the Kuril Islands), the Khabomadze Islands (Habomai), and Sikotan (Shikotan) Islands from Japanese territory.

According to San Francisco Peace Treaty from 8 September 1951, the Japanese side waived all rights to South Sakhalin and the Kurile Islands. But the Japanese claim that Iturup, Shikotan, Kunashir and Habomai (the islands of the Small Kuril Ridge) were not part of the Chisima Islands (the Kuril Islands) and they did not refuse them.


Negotiations in Portsmouth (1905) - from left to right: from the Russian side (the furthest part of the table) - Plunson, Nabokov, Witte, Rosen, Korostovets.

Further agreements

Joint declaration. October 19 1956, the Soviet Union and Japan adopted a Joint Declaration. The document stopped the state of war between the countries and restored diplomatic relations, and also spoke of Moscow’s consent to the transfer of the Japanese side to the islands of Habomai and Shikotan. But they should have been transferred only after the signing of a peace treaty. However, Japan was later forced to refuse to sign a peace treaty with the USSR. The United States threatened the Japanese not to give up Okinawa and the entire Ryukyu archipelago if they abandoned their claims to the other islands of the Lesser Kuril Ridge.

After Tokyo signed an Agreement on Interaction and Security with Washington in January 1960, extending the American military presence on the Japanese islands, Moscow said it was refusing to consider transferring the islands to the Japanese side. The statement was justified by the issue of security of the USSR and China.

In 1993, the year was signed Tokyo Declaration about the Russian-Japanese relations. It said that the Russian Federation is the assignee of the USSR and recognizes the 1956 agreement of the year. Moscow has expressed willingness to begin negotiations on the territorial claims of Japan. In Tokyo, it was rated as a sign of the coming victory.

In 2004, the head of the Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Sergei Lavrov, made a statement that Moscow recognizes the 1956 Declaration of the Year and is ready to negotiate a peace treaty based on it. In the 2004-2005 years, this position was confirmed by Russian President Vladimir Putin.

But the Japanese insisted on the transfer of 4 islands, so the issue was not resolved. Moreover, the Japanese gradually increased their pressure, so, in 2009, the head of the Japanese government at a government meeting called the Little Kuril chain "illegally occupied territories". In 2010-the beginning of 2011, the Japanese were so “enraged” that some military experts began to talk about the possibility of a new Russian-Japanese war. Only the spring natural disaster - the consequences of a tsunami and a terrible earthquake, the accident at the Fukushima nuclear power plant - cooled Japan’s ardor.

As a result, loud statements by the Japanese led to the fact that Moscow declared that the islands are the territory of the Russian Federation legally following the Second World War, this is enshrined in the UN Charter. And Russian sovereignty over the Kuriles, which has the relevant international legal confirmation, is beyond doubt. Plans were also announced for developing the economy of the islands and strengthening Russia's military presence there.



Strategic importance of the islands

- The economic factor. The islands are economically underdeveloped, but there are deposits of valuable and rare-earth metals on them - gold, silver, rhenium, titanium. The waters are rich in bioresources, the seas that wash the shores of Sakhalin and the Kuril Islands are among the most productive areas of the World Ocean. Of great importance are the shelves where hydrocarbon deposits are found.

- The political factor. The concession of the islands will sharply lower the status of Russia in the world, there will be a legal opportunity to reconsider other results of the Second World War. For example, they may demand to give the Kaliningrad region of Germany or part of Karelia in Finland.

- The military factor. The transfer of the islands of the South Kuril ridge will provide the Navy of Japan and the USA free access to the Sea of ​​Okhotsk. It will allow our potential adversaries to exercise control over strategically important pouring zones, which will sharply worsen the capabilities of the deployment of the forces of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Federation, including nuclear submarines with intercontinental ballistic missiles. This will be a strong blow to the military security of the Russian Federation.

Author:
22 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. dimarm74
    dimarm74 12 October 2011 08: 58 New
    +12
    What is there to argue ... who is stronger is right ... In the days of the USSR, the Japs sat quietly and did not blather almost ..... Only by force of arms can the territory be kept, there are no other ways ..... everything else is verbal fornication
  2. Styx
    Styx 12 October 2011 09: 13 New
    +2
    "In 1799, Catherine II freed those who accepted Russian citizenship from all taxes" - a typo however, Catherine II died in 1796. 1796-1801 - the reign of Paul I.
  3. sancho
    sancho 12 October 2011 09: 36 New
    0
    It is completely obvious that the Japanese should not be inferior in this matter, neither for political, nor for economic, and even more so for military reasons. Moreover, given the severity of the guilt of the Japanese before our dead soldiers!
    “Whoever comes to us with a sword will perish by the sword” - A. Nevsky.

    These islands are a small satisfaction for their aggression. Satisfaction - (lat. Satisfactio - satisfaction) - a form of international legal responsibility (a type of political responsibility), expressed in the fact that the violating state provides satisfaction to the affected state. Types S .: regret, assurance of the injured party of the inadmissibility of the like, apologies, punishment of the guilty, special honors to the affected state, other forms of moral satisfaction of the injured party. Depend on the damage done and the specific political situation. ;

    In general, for starters, let them ask Pindos from their territory.
  4. LESHA pancake
    LESHA pancake 12 October 2011 09: 43 New
    0
    crush the samurai as cockroaches necessary, dreaming of the island give them.
  5. Sergh
    Sergh 12 October 2011 09: 47 New
    0
    Nothing, never give Japs. This will be a punishment to the entire Russian people. And now just remember and see "Death Conveyor (Japanese concentration camp" Detachment 731 ")
    "

    http://ualand.com.ua/video/documental/1790-konveyer-smerti-yaponskiy-konclager-o
    tryad-731-2004-tvrip.html
    So it’s not a fact that this will not happen again !!!
  6. dimarm74
    dimarm74 12 October 2011 10: 13 New
    +4
    There is only one conclusion - you need a powerful Pacific Fleet! It seems that it will be there by 2015 .... 1 TARK pr.1144 (modernized Nakhimov), one Mistral, one Atlant pr.1164 (Varyag), 5-6 BOD pr.1155 .. and a pair of destroyers 956- x (unless they are written off of course). Well, not counting the underwater component. Maybe some of the new corvettes and frigates will be thrown .... Yes, and the Tu-22M3 is a serious argument in the dispute ... the squadron of "carcasses", if there is more than enough for all samurai with tactical nuclear weapons .... the tsunami will seem like childish talk ....
    1. ballian
      ballian 12 October 2011 11: 50 New
      +1
      "Needed" is needed - but in reality
      In the Pacific Ocean, Russia has 5 PLA, 7 PL, 1 cruiser, 1 destroyer, 4 BOD, 4 missile boats in service.
      The Japanese Navy has 19 latest diesel submarines, a light aircraft carrier (the second is being completed), 4 destroyer-helicopter carrier, 6 destroyers, 35 destroyers, 9 frigates, 9 missile boats, 2 minzag, 36 minesweepers, 7 minesweepers, XNUMX landing ships
      The Japanese Air Force 250 combat aircraft (latest generation)
      .

      The specificity of this theater of operations is that the compounds located on the islands are torn off from the rear. And no one will storm the islands proper without isolating and bleeding the Russian troops there.
      It is extremely unlikely that the Japanese side these days will decide to forcefully solve the problem of the so-called "Northern Territories", but hypothetical scenarios of a military conflict, if such a solution is made in Tokyo, will involve a landing operation, which will be accompanied by massive airstrikes. After the military infrastructure is destroyed, the Japanese may try to implement a landing scenario
      The Japanese fleet will maintain maritime communications, but the state of the Pacific Fleet of the Russian Federation is such that on the very first day of such a war, the Russian army’s formations in the Kuril Islands will be in complete blockade and their liquidation will only become a matter of time.
      1. Don
        Don 12 October 2011 14: 40 New
        +6
        First of all, you would first have to figure out the correct number of personnel, and then deal with the strategy. In the Pacific Fleet: 1 missile cruiser (the Japanese have more than one), 5 BODs in the ranks, 2 under repair, 7 small anti-submarine ships, 4 small missile ships , strategic missile submarines-3 (the Japanese have more than one), nuclear submarines with cruise missiles-5, nuclear torpedo submarines-4 and 3 under repair, diesel torpedo submarines-8. Moreover, in the next two to three years Admiral Nakhimov and Mistral will arrive at the Pacific Fleet.
        The Japanese have 2 helicopter carriers, 2 destroyer-helicopter carrier, destroyer-8, destroyers-32, frigates-6, submarines-18. Of all this, only the Congo destroyers can be considered serious.
        Quote: ballian
        The Japanese Air Force 250 combat aircraft (latest generation)

        Is this a generation, the fifth or something? Are you out of your mind?! Do you consider the F-5 (the Japanese have 15), or the F-202 (2), or F-44 (4) PLANES OF THE LAST GENERATION? The Russian Air Force many times exceed the quantity and quality of the Japanese Air Force. In the Russian Federation, the MiG-91 29 (270 in reserve) of which there are 300+ generation 4 vehicles, MiG-70 31 and 188 in reserve of them 200 generation 10 +, Su-4 27 and 310 there are 100+ generations of 4 aircraft in reserve, and 60 Su-9s are 30 + generation. And there are also strategic aviation 4 aircraft and front-line aircraft with about 294 mines in the regular forces and in reserve. It is foolish to assume that the Japanese will throw all their Navy and Air Force on the front is with Russia, and the Russian Federation will use only the Air Force and Navy OSK Vostok. Now, according to the strategy. The reason why Japan is extremely unprofitable for a protracted war even for several months is simple - Russia can launch missile and bomb strikes practically all over Japan with long-range aviation, most systematically destroying the Japanese economy. The Japanese have nothing to answer for such a move. Not to mention the fact that China will take advantage of such a situation here, which also has territorial disputes with Japan. Therefore, there is only one option - a blitzkrieg with the transition to the sphere of diplomacy. Thus, the task of the Japanese is reduced to several points
        1) To gain air supremacy over the islands and suppress air defense 18 PulAD
        2) Suppress coastal defense forces (PKKK and artillery), ensure the landing and block the area of ​​operations from the sea.
        3) Defeat 18 PulAD itself.
        All this must be done in a few days, otherwise the war will drag on and turn into a disaster. How real is it? To understand this you need to remember the wars of the last decade: Iraq, Lebanon and Georgia. On one point, I think the “Five Day War” will be most indicative. In this war, Russia, having overwhelming superiority in aviation (which can not be said about the Japanese), suppressed Georgian air defense in three days. The Japanese, however, will need to get through quickly. The Japanese will take no less time to the second point, since the artillery and coastal SCRC are mobile. They need to be tracked, and this time. The third point will take much more time than the first two, due to the fact that the implanted amount of heavy equipment, the Japanese will not be able to quickly transfer to the islands for technical reasons. And without heavy equipment, storming a fortified area is an ungrateful and dangerous thing for storming. Based on this, the capture operation will drag on for two or more weeks, even under favorable circumstances for the Japanese. But even this does not attract blitzkrieg. Conclusion - Japan theoretically can capture these 4 islands, but the victory will be a Pyrrhic one. At the same time, there is a great chance of destruction on their own territory and not capture anything.
        1. ballian
          ballian 12 October 2011 19: 27 New
          -4
          There is no talk of any fifth generation at all - Russia does not have it either .. - talk about modern newsletters.
          You know, “Don” look at what is listed in the Ukrainian army in the Air Force and what is really combat-friendly - Yushchenko once said in his hearts that really combat-ready aircraft in Ukraine are scanty compared to the registered ones (google his admission) so do not flatter yourself with officialdom. - look at how many planes the aviation has received over the past 20 years - and you'll understand.,
          .
          If Japan decides to fight with Russia - it will throw all its forces there - I don’t see anything stupid.
          .
          What can Russian aviation do in Japan - from the realm of fantasy. = - Japan is not Yugoslavia, but Russia is not NATO, Russia does not see any cardinal advantage just to wet Japan from the air.
          .
          In Georgia, Russia had the Roki Tunnel, on the Kuril Islands everything is much more complicated.
          ========
          Threat In general, all this is pure theorizing - it would not have occurred to any theorists that the Japanese fleet would destroy the Russian in Tsushima so incredibly easily (theoretically no weaker), and so on and so forth (history) ..
          1. Don
            Don 13 October 2011 13: 02 New
            0
            Firstly, Russia has 4 PAK FAs and 16 Su-35s of the 5th generation, and since 2013 these planes have been put into mass production. The Japanese have NOT ONE, they are only developing their own. Secondly, Yushchenko could not cite as an example. When Yanukovych became president, he was at the airbase in Crimea and told the whole country that only two planes were able to fly, but this is in Ukraine, where every year a minuscule is hardly allocated to the army for the army to feed and shoot a couple of times. In the Russian Federation, the budget of the Republic of Armenia is 1000 times larger (the 4th in the world if I’m not mistaken). New types of weapons are constantly arriving, albeit not in large numbers, but this is already progress and this is due more to the fact that the military-industrial complex is not able to produce the required quantity per year. How many BMP-3, T-90, Tigers, self-propelled guns Msta-S, Iskander, Mi-28N, Ka-52, Su-34 have already arrived, and how many MiG-29, Su-27, MiG -31, T-80 modernized. The Japanese, by the way, have only 4 generations of aircraft, and the Russian Federation already has 4+ quite a lot, and there will be a 5th soon. Pilots in Russia constantly fly, that's for sure I know that they also have combat experience. In Ukraine, they almost do not fly, but fall more often, near Lviv at an air show several years ago. Even if Japan decides to war with the Russian Federation, you DO NOT take into account long-range aviation, and that’s almost 300 aircraft, including modern ones such as the Tu-160, which penetrated into the United States on April 26, 2006 and weren’t noticed. And how many planes can be transferred to other Far East missiles in less than a day, and even military units. at the Vostok-2010 exercises. Strategic aviation of the Russian Federation, even with significant losses (despite the fact that the Tu-160 may not fly into Japan but launch a cruise missile) will destroy a significant part of the Japanese infrastructure. For example, several power plants, with such electricity consumption by Japan, they’ll begin to collapse there. Yes, and their air defense is weak. If you are even thinking about something in the economy, you should understand what will happen on world exchanges with shares of Japanese companies. So your fantasies about the mythical and leave the invincible Japanese army, which incidentally last fought almost 70 years ago, be with you. Any military analyst will prove the opposite to you. The Russian Federation may not be NATO, but its aria is larger than all European armies than the Russian MiG-29, Su-27, MiG-31, Su-34 worse than Harierov, Tornado, Eurofighter or Rafaley. Compare their performance characteristics.
            Quote: ballian
            In Georgia, Russia had the Roki Tunnel, on the Kuril Islands everything is much more complicated.

            And what about the Rokki Tunnel? The Russian Federation is unlikely to land on Japanese territory. And the Kuril Islands are well fortified and are still being strengthened. Buk-1M, T-80 have already arrived, armor, bastions and S-300 will come in. And howitzers have long been there, guns, Shilka, Arrows-10, MLRS Grads.
            Quote: ballian
            no theorist could have thought that the Japanese fleet would destroy the Russian in Tsushima so incredibly easily

            Actually, more than one came and many admirals told the tsar about the need to upgrade the fleet, but by 1904 they did not manage to completely upgrade and strengthen it.
        2. Banshee
          Banshee 13 October 2011 00: 17 New
          +2
          Don, do not pay attention to the baliana, this is an eternal crybaby, he is very, very bad.
          1. Don
            Don 13 October 2011 13: 10 New
            +1
            When a person writes nonsense, he sincerely believes in it and still tries to convince others of it, it’s hard not to answer. Not knowing the quantity and performance characteristics it comes to mind. He remained in the 90s with his thoughts. RA is now not the same, I many friends from Russia talked about this. Of course there are problems, but they are gradually being solved, and in principle there are problems in any armies of the world, even in Pindostan, even in Germany.
  7. Banshee
    Banshee 12 October 2011 10: 27 New
    +6
    And a little bit of rackets on these islands to stumble ... Just a little, but with the expectation, to drown the "Japanese aircraft carrier", if suddenly that.

    In fact, a lot is not necessary. it is necessary that the quality and at the time.

    And before that time, write to the UNs, all kinds of instances, put forward historically based counterarguments ... in short, pull the rubber.
    And there, either the japas themselves will suffocate, or once again the god of otfukushimit. And there will be no one stink.

    Actually, why a lot of weapons, if (apparently) everyone in heaven sees and immediately punishes? (The "accidentally fallen" bomb from the compartment of the "carcass" or the racket launched against Tokyo also suggest that we also consider God's punishment). wink
  8. Volkhov
    Volkhov 12 October 2011 11: 40 New
    -2
    The islands are close to the fault, only the mountain peaks are not flooded, mountain building, the impact of the fault gases. Small groups with good equipment and supplies should be left there, and the population should be taken to Kamchatka and BAM to the ridge region. The problem is that the authorities are committed to genocide, therefore, they are introducing a “defense” template, which they themselves do not believe in, because there are fewer troops in the region. Ultimately, the territories will go to those peoples who save people - the plans of the dead are irrelevant.
  9. lightforcer
    lightforcer 12 October 2011 11: 45 New
    0
    There is no Kuril problem, there is a problem in the heads of the Japanese. Unlike Nazi Germany, where the allies were denazified, they didn’t do anything like this in Japan, they simply occupied it. So the country is formally peaceful, but the people are the same.
  10. Styx
    Styx 12 October 2011 12: 33 New
    -5
    -1 is not a healthy reaction to a sensible remark. You can minus
  11. Volkhov
    Volkhov 12 October 2011 16: 51 New
    +3
    "Military Review" implies defense thinking, but not the commissar template "with the banner forward" - before you fight, you need to decide on the place, who is the enemy, who is the ally. They counted ships, planes, wished rockets, and the enemy - geophysics. The Japanese people need to explain the situation, the options: for example, not bad - the exchange of diasporas, that is, we accept for example 1 million Japanese in Eastern Siberia, and they help to accept 1 million Russians in the center of the Pacific Ocean, on the temporary mainland that will arise there - this Good location, large and relatively clean in terms of radiation. Such an approach will create reserve funds, as it were, and be safe, as it’s impossible to foresee everything. If the excitement of agitators in the peaceful course of public diplomacy, then the overall prospects could improve. And in governments - zombies, I checked.
  12. stalker
    stalker 12 October 2011 18: 04 New
    -1
    This is what it takes ..... we need to be that we came from Europe faster and mastered these lands than they did under ourselves under .. ..)) And their civilization is older than ours. And also Estonians say brakes, they are far from the Japs far)))
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 13 October 2011 15: 01 New
      +1
      It’s just that the Russian people ran away from the bureaucracy - to Alaska and California, and the "Japanese" newcomers on the islands - Ainu lived there, came from the Russian people in antiquity, the Japanese were able to oust them after long wars, when they received guns and lured the tip of the Ainu into samurai - approximately as it is now in Russia, there probably were exercises.
  13. ESCANDER
    ESCANDER 12 October 2011 19: 06 New
    +3
    Volkhov
    --- "The Japanese people need to explain the situation, the options: for example, not bad - an exchange of diasporas, we accept 1 million Japanese in Siberia, and they are 1 million Russian in the center of the Pacific Ocean"

    - Ale, is it Moscow?
    - No, however, Chukotka!
    - Chukchi or what?
    - Chukchi, Chukchi!
    - Well, how are you doing?
    - Yes, everything is fine, disconnect!
    - From whom?
    - From you, however!
    - Where are you joining?
    - To the Japanese!
    - And what, all “FOR”?
    - No, there are some and “AGAINST”!
    - And who is against?
    - Yes, the Japanese!
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 12 October 2011 19: 38 New
      0
      Humor comes in handy in April 2013.
      1. ESCANDER
        ESCANDER 12 October 2011 20: 26 New
        +2
        Why in 2013?
        Always come in handy. I’m laughing for 40 years, and whoever cried died a long time ago.
        And I advise you.
  14. Colonel
    Colonel 12 October 2011 20: 58 New
    0
    It seems that we are justifying ourselves to someone for standing on our land. It’s paid for the Kuril Islands, including with the blood of our soldiers (Yalta, Podstam and more ...) We like to draw parallels with Western “civilization”. At least one example in favor of transferring the Kuril to JVC ???
    For example: States apologize to Russia for buying Alaska (on occasion)
  15. ztk1
    ztk1 13 October 2011 00: 07 New
    +1
    Borders are written by military operations - (South Ossetia, Abkhazia - 08.08.08. Nap.) Therefore, until the samurai begin military operations to return the "northern territories", you can be calm about the islands - they will remain ours.
    And the war can diminish, or it can add fellow countrymen - about. Hokkaido will not hurt.
  16. cabin boy
    cabin boy 13 October 2011 02: 03 New
    0
    Latest news: "Russian troops in the Kuril Islands armed with new air defense systems and tanks"

    The Russian group of troops stationed on the islands of the Kuril ridge received Buk-M1 anti-aircraft missile systems, a T-80 tank battalion and modern communications equipment, Interfax reports citing a source in the Russian Ministry of Defense. In the future, the Buk-M1 can be replaced by the Buk-M2, and the grouping of forces on the islands of Kunashir and Iturup is strengthened by the Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile and artillery systems.

    http://lenta.ru/news/2011/10/12/tanks/
    1. Volkhov
      Volkhov 16 October 2011 15: 35 New
      0
      Composition for the electorate - even the Japanese do not protest. Look for the normal ports in the Kuril Islands or imagine the autumn landing of new equipment with the rear and personnel.
  17. LESHA pancake
    LESHA pancake 13 October 2011 15: 03 New
    0
    KURIL ISSUE NO. THERE IS A PROBLEM OF JAPAN. IT IS TIME FOR THE SAMURAI TO SPECIFY THEIR PLACE IN THE SORT.