Military Review

Russia will put in Egypt 46 fighter MiG-29

43
Russia and Egypt have agreed a contract worth about 2 billion dollars, providing for the supply of 46 fighters MiG-29, which can be signed in the near future, according to the publication "Vedomosti" with reference to own sources.

Russia will put in Egypt 46 fighter MiG-29


The article notes that earlier the possibility of supplying the upgraded MiG-29 to the Egyptian side was announced by the Director General of the Russian Aircraft Building Corporation (RSK) MiG Sergey Korotkov.

It is worth noting that in 2014, the Russian Federation and Egypt signed an agreement for the supply of an anti-aircraft missile system C-300В4 worth at least half a billion dollars.

Konstantin Makienko, an expert at the Center for Analysis of Strategies and Technologies, noted that the contract for the supply of fighters for RSK MiG will open up the prospect of working for years ahead, since this is the largest order for the MiG-29 for the entire post-Soviet period.

Currently, RSK MiG is working on the implementation of two contracts for the supply of MiG-29K / KUB carrier-based fighters for the Indian Navy (29 machines) and the Russian Navy (24 machines). In addition, in 2014, a contract was signed providing for the supply of 16 MiG-29CMT fighters for the Russian Air Force.
Thus, in the case of signing a contract with Egypt, the corporation’s order book will almost double, which will provide it with work until about the 2020 year.
Photos used:
http://www.vedomosti.ru/
43 comments
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  1. sever.56
    sever.56 25 May 2015 11: 14
    +24
    After many years of deflection under the USA and the West, people came to power in Egypt who want to pursue an independent policy. And our diplomats did a good job.
    1. makst83
      makst83 25 May 2015 11: 15
      +7
      Omeriga Negodue wassat
    2. insafufa
      insafufa 25 May 2015 11: 16
      +2
      This will help the moment to stay afloat, otherwise their crisis dragged on
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 25 May 2015 11: 25
      +4
      Is it a lot in rubles? And you bucks are almost free. Maybe a mistake crept in?
      1. STALGRAD76
        STALGRAD76 25 May 2015 11: 30
        +2
        For me, so if the calculation will be in rubles it is very cool .......
        Why is the ruble symbol inserted as a square ₽ ??? And the symbols of other currencies are $, €, £, no problem ???? "an accident? I don't think so! laughing "
      2. atalef
        atalef 25 May 2015 11: 56
        -1
        Quote: siberalt
        Is it a lot in rubles? And you bucks are almost free. Maybe a mistake crept in?

        No, and where did Egypt get 2 billion bucks?
        1. Jewish
          Jewish 25 May 2015 12: 10
          +1
          No, and where did Egypt get 2 billion bucks?
          amerika zaplatit
        2. tomket
          tomket 25 May 2015 15: 56
          0
          Quote: atalef
          No, and where did Egypt get 2 billion bucks?

          Saudis fork out.
      3. atalef
        atalef 25 May 2015 12: 08
        -2
        Quote: siberalt
        Is it a lot in rubles? And you bucks are almost free. Maybe a mistake crept in?

        no, here are the prices for mig-29 in 2010, now it’s even cheaper

        Military Parity. " The tiny former Soviet Republic of Moldova (eastern Romania) wanted to sell the entire fleet of MiG-29 fighters (31 aircraft), which it got after the collapse of the USSR. In 1997, 21 fighters were sold to the United States for training, technical analysis, these machines had equipment for the use of nuclear bombs. The price of each fighter was no more than $ 2 million.



        Four other fighters were sold to Yemen at the same low price. Now Moldova is trying to get rid of the remaining six MiG-29 fighters. These aircraft are not in good shape and are offered to potential buyers at a price of $ 1 million apiece. The new MiG-29 costs $ 40 million or more. But these production fighters of the 80s can be an attractive investment. But maybe yes, maybe not.

        At the end of 2008, Russia proposed to Lebanon to buy 10 MiG-29 fighters with a “big discount”, that is, for less than $ 2 million per car. It is worth noting that the annual operation of these machines (if they are still in a condition suitable for flights) can cost the same money
        1. Mikhaylych
          Mikhaylych 25 May 2015 14: 42
          0
          Egypt is unlikely to agree to the old MiGs, most likely the MiG-29M ++ (MiG-35 is being tested), in the amount of just two billion dollars. The price depends on the configuration. I rummaged around on an Internet, practically nothing remained of the Soviet stocks, which was not sold, rotted on "conservation", so most likely the planes are from scratch, and this is already expensive. If Egypt allowed itself "Rafali", then the MiGs can afford zero. The price is different, the old ones are one thing, and the new ones are completely different, and in terms of efficiency, these machines still have few rivals. The MiG-35 and the shipbuilder are not inferior to Western machines in terms of efficiency, resource and combat radius and combat effectiveness (and even more so in air combat) they surpass the F-16 and Hornet, their only rivals are Rafal and Typhoon. It was just that there was a time when the company was spreading rot (although now they do not give too much to run away). The MiG-29-9-12, for example, wins the BVB over the Su-30SM, the capabilities of the MiG-35 (MiG-29M2 +) are an order of magnitude higher, so they will not interfere with Egypt.
        2. tomket
          tomket 25 May 2015 15: 59
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          no, here are the prices for mig-29 in 2010, now it’s even cheaper

          This is what we are discussing for what the non-ferrous scrap costs. For example, if I tell you that Venezuela is ready to give up its F-16s at the price of $ 1, due to the fact that they are outdated and there are no spare parts for them, does this mean that both the Israeli "Sufa" are worth one dollar, and the Israeli pilots fly on uniform scrap metal, which all over the world yearn to get rid of?
    4. oleg-gr
      oleg-gr 25 May 2015 11: 50
      +1
      It's time to return to Egypt.
    5. The comment was deleted.
    6. NEXUS
      NEXUS 25 May 2015 12: 09
      +3
      Quote: sever.56
      After many years of deflection under the USA and the West, people came to power in Egypt who want to pursue an independent policy. And our diplomats did a good job.

      Here, I'm sorry, not to sentimentality. ISIS knocks on the door, so friendship is friendship, but everyone wants to live. Americans allies in the Middle East merged and gave up ISIS, and all this was felt and understood.
      MIG purchase is a matter of country survival.
    7. donavi49
      donavi49 25 May 2015 15: 02
      0
      This contract, as well as purchases in France, Egypt pays in the Arab tranche from the Saudis wassat .


      In general, Egypt is now following the Iraqi option. As the Islamists rage in the Sinai before the uprising in Fallujah and Anbar, they have already destroyed five tanks, captured several armored personnel carriers and promise to launch a general offensive this summer. On the other hand, in Libya, Islamists sworn allegiance to the Islamic State make their way to the Egyptian border - the port of Derna has been taken, there are battles for the air base and Rizan near Tobruk. Now IG Libya has two oil ports, Sirte and Derna.

      Today, by the way, again a smuggling ship going to Sirte was bombed (the Turkish ship turned out to be the last time, by the way, this one is still unclear)
    8. Pomah
      Pomah 25 May 2015 16: 37
      0
      the only question is ... again for beautiful words of promise or will they really pay for these devices?
    9. APASUS
      APASUS 25 May 2015 17: 24
      0
      Quote: sever.56
      After many years of deflection under the USA and the West, people came to power in Egypt who want to pursue an independent policy. And our diplomats did a good job.

      There was already an article about a similar deal between the US and Iraq.
      The United States is not ready to supply weapons so quickly and put forth additional political requirements that naturally do not suit buyers. So everything is logical
  2. silver169
    silver169 25 May 2015 11: 16
    +8
    What a news! Huge contract. He will greatly help the Mikoyanovsky Design Bureau, and indeed the whole country.
  3. Rakti-kali
    Rakti-kali 25 May 2015 11: 16
    +7
    Russia and Egypt agree on a contract worth about 2 billion rublesproviding for the supply of 46 MiG-29 fighters,

    Whose rubles? For even the MiG-29 at a price of less than a million dollars apiece is unscientific fiction.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 25 May 2015 11: 20
      +2
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      Whose rubles? For even the MiG-29 at a price of less than a million dollars apiece is unscientific fiction.

      Outstripped! The same question arose, the main thing that would not work as with Soviet loans, then write off. If India has all the rules with money, then at the expense of Egypt they are tormented by vague doubts.
      1. St Petrov
        St Petrov 25 May 2015 11: 21
        0
        our weapons are cheaper than analogues. Therefore, you can find money on it.

        This is not f-35 with helmets
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Mikhaylych
        Mikhaylych 25 May 2015 14: 44
        0
        I hope that we are talking about green rubles.
    2. Eugene-Eugene
      Eugene-Eugene 25 May 2015 11: 21
      +4
      A 2009 MiG cost $ 30 million. So you're right, we are talking about foreign "rubles". Unfortunately, this mistake is becoming common among Russian authors. Foreign people have been confusing billions with billions for a long time
    3. atalef
      atalef 25 May 2015 11: 59
      -2
      Quote: Rakti-Kali
      Russia and Egypt agree on a contract worth about 2 billion rublesproviding for the supply of 46 MiG-29 fighters,

      Whose rubles? For even the MiG-29 at a price of less than a million dollars apiece is unscientific fiction.

      This is not a fantasy, in general it turns out 10 times, at the price of the 1st Armata (as they say that the price of Armata is 400 million rubles)
      Mig is an outdated aircraft. It’s not possible to fight Egypt with Israel, But to drive the Bedouins around Sinai, just right against Ethiopia and Libya
      1. Mikhaylych
        Mikhaylych 25 May 2015 15: 04
        +1
        Give me the reasons why the MiG is outdated. The performance of his new models is unattainable even for cars such as the Rafale and Gripen. It surpasses all fighters in the world in terms of climb rate, and this is superiority in the BVB in the vertical plane. In Bulgaria, the MiG-29-9-12 gave a head start to the F-16 of the latest modification, even when, at the request of the F-16 pilots, the helmet-mounted guidance system was withdrawn from the MiG pilots (although in this case they seemed to have won several battles). So these are machines from the 80s, and new chances will not leave anyone. We, too, all said that MiGs were an anachronism and there was no place for them, then they still carried out training BVBs with the Su-30SM, they won the anachronisms (9-12), now Mr. Rogozin has calmed down. And since when did the cheapness of cars become a disadvantage? This has always been the advantage of Mikoyan's aircraft. The MiG-21 was at the price of the BMP-1, and how many western fighters it crumbled, and very expensive ones.
  4. pensioner
    pensioner 25 May 2015 11: 18
    +3
    Surely again on credit. Where did Egypt get such money from?
    1. St Petrov
      St Petrov 25 May 2015 11: 20
      +4
      the Saudis give them loot for weapons in the amount of several billion.
      I don’t know what is happening with Qatar in Egypt - but I think they are in the same sandbox.

      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 25 May 2015 14: 57
        0
        Saudis on Rafali give, but on Migi it is doubtful
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. gispanec
      gispanec 25 May 2015 11: 39
      0
      Quote: retired
      Surely again on credit. Where did Egypt get such money from?

      how do you know what is on credit? - this is one and two - are you the Minister of Finance of Egypt?)))
      1. atalef
        atalef 25 May 2015 12: 00
        -1
        Quote: gispanec
        Quote: retired
        Surely again on credit. Where did Egypt get such money from?

        how do you know what is on credit? - this is one and two - are you the Minister of Finance of Egypt?)))

        Egypt has no money, it never has and never will be - this is an axiom
      2. pensioner
        pensioner 25 May 2015 17: 48
        0
        Quote: gispanec
        How do you know what the loan is?

        I do not know. request Just a thought in the ear .- what
        Quote: gispanec
        one and two - are you the Minister of Finance of Egypt?

        three or four and take you to deputies. smile Will you gowink
  5. prabiz
    prabiz 25 May 2015 11: 19
    +3
    To protect our holidays in Egypt, he just needs MIGs!
  6. region46
    region46 25 May 2015 11: 19
    +3
    honestly the pace is not very large for 5 years
  7. Not served
    Not served 25 May 2015 11: 20
    +2
    The price somehow confused me. Maybe they made a mistake and mixed up the rubles with the dollars. 46 cars for 2 billion rubles are somehow not enough.

    Thus, in the case of signing a contract with Egypt, the corporation’s order book will almost double, which will provide it with work until about the 2020 year.


    And to expand production what does it ????
    1. veksha50
      veksha50 25 May 2015 11: 33
      +1
      Quote: Didn't serve
      And to expand production what does it ????



      Look at the information for the last 20 years - the scale of production of SU and MIGs ... In this case, MIGs are like stepsons ...
      1. U-47
        U-47 25 May 2015 12: 06
        +1
        Quote: veksha50
        the scale of production of SU and MIGs ... In this case, MIGs are like stepsons ...

        effective management. In the years of timelessness, Irkut not only held out on export orders, but rather confidently survived.
  8. Loki_2
    Loki_2 25 May 2015 11: 28
    0
    Quote: Not served
    The price somehow confused me. Maybe they made a mistake and mixed up the rubles with the dollars. 46 cars for 2 billion rubles are somehow not enough.

    Also confused by the price. 43.5 million rubles / MiG-29 is clearly not enough.
    Here the MiG-29 was sold for $ 30 million apiece http://english.pravda.ru/world/asia/24-12-2009/111368-mig29-0/
  9. Thronekeeper
    Thronekeeper 25 May 2015 11: 29
    +4
    Well, actually, they were arguing, arguing with American and Israeli visitors, and the Saudis, Franks and the USA washed beautifully.
    + Egyptians will not get anywhere from the Su-35, they really need it.
    And the Saudis will feed the Russian defense industry and pay for all the whims of Pharaoh Sisi, so that the strongest and most efficient army in the region would suddenly not remember the trans-Arabian route of Thutmose-3, Jedhor and the Ptolemies.
    Egypt has nowhere to get away from the package modernization of the T-62, the upgrade of the Apache fleet, which they have with the impotent version of the AN-64A, the purchase of "crocs", weapons for old Soviet and American fighters and strikers.
    Surely they will want "Yakhonts". And, in the long term, they will share with Bashar Hafizych how the Syria-Iran cross-re-export is going on now.
    No matter how the Saudis hate Assad (they don’t hate Sisi much less) they will pay, because they are less afraid of secular pro-Russian military dictatorships than Islamic revolutionaries and Shiites of Iran. Or the Egyptians will decide that Saudi Arabia needs a new king, and oil prices need to be raised. Putin can help. Polite KR.
  10. veksha50
    veksha50 25 May 2015 11: 31
    +7
    "the contract for the supply of fighters will open up the prospect of work for years to come, since this is the largest order for the MiG-29 in the entire post-Soviet period" ...

    Well, this is a good sign, at least for the MIG corporation, otherwise the Sukhoi Design Bureau is in favor, and light fighters are in the pen ... But both of them are needed ...

    Well, Egypt ... It has always been cloudy, and in our Soviet times ... I bought it - a flag in his hands ... ONLY DO NOT GIVE IN A DEBT !!! Otherwise it will be necessary again for some political reasons to "forgive" the debts ...
  11. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 25 May 2015 11: 41
    +5
    Russia will put in Egypt 46 fighter MiG-29
    On the one hand, the news is pleasant - MAPO "MiG" must be urgently raised, if not already saved, including through foreign orders. On the other hand, the intensification of IS militants in Sinai, where they managed to inflict several defeats on the Egyptian security forces. Plus the stable instability in Libya, on the western border and the participation of the Egyptians in the operation against Yemen, where another Saudi F-16 was landed yesterday. So, there will be no problems with sponsors - the Saudis and other Qatars will pay ... And for Israel, Egyptian aviation is not terrible, which it has repeatedly (4 times) demonstrated in practice. The logic of the Egyptian generals is incomprehensible, who, according to the nomenclature of combat aircraft, decided to compete with India, since at present the Egyptian Air Force is an insane mixture of "bulldog and rhinoceros" from aircraft, Soviet, American, French, Chinese and German:
    - X-NUMX American F-228 Fighting Falcon (16 F-178C, 16 UBS F-50D)

    - 18 French Mirage 2000

    - 82 Mirage V, various modifications

    - 34 F-4 Phantom II

    - 113 MiG-21 and its Egyptian clones Chengdu J-7

    - 14 light attack aircraft Alpha Jet and another 54 aircraft in the version of the TCB, assembled in Egypt under license

    - 120 Chinese K-8 Karakorum, of which 110 is collected in Egypt

    - 47 Czech L-59 Super Albatros, there are 10 L-39 Albatros
    - 54 Brazilian EMB 312 Tucano-assembled in Egypt.
    To all this "splendor" are added 24 French Dassault Rafale (the contract has already been signed), 48 MiG-29 and 12 American Air Tractor AT-802
    1. Thronekeeper
      Thronekeeper 25 May 2015 12: 15
      +1
      Anwar Saddat paid for the betrayal of the USSR not only with a bullet in a turnip, but also by turning the army into a dump of free American trash. There are phantom-makers and a bunch of absolutely ugly M-60 tanks. It was only under Mubarak that they began to receive a relatively modern thief from the United States, WTC - the last successful modification of Abramovich M1A1 with durable corundum ceramics, on HA and A2 there is already dioxiduranic sand, which holds the godfather better, but only dust flies from the OBPS. And the only remaining abrasive plant in the world (in the USA, production was discontinued in 1993), F-16 and Apache.
      By the way, in 2008 I saw in Hurghada - after all, this is one of the main air bases on which the international airport was closed up, a Su-22 with a delivery combination of outdated Shrikes and new Russian P-73s. In 2010, I already flew to Luxor - away from the bzdykh, closer to the antiquities of Wasit and the suburbs, and did not see military aircraft for this reason. Have they already been cut? It seems that this drummer has a considerable reserve of modernization, it was stupid to melt for duralumin.
      Well, training is training albatrosses.
      F-16 not all S and Sshnykh there are many "wrong systems" for radar and RVV. They will just be "burned". Although I do not like LFI in general, and the F-16 is the most LFishny - MiG-21 amers assemblies, they can operate in the same ranks with the flashers with some unification of avionics and RVV, say, for R-77, and with authentic ones, just not with a plate and with "sparrows".
      Rafali fed for free - good drummers will not interfere with nudyk.
      And another forty dry MFIs are simply needed, since Egypt is not Switzerland and will not go far on some LFIs.
      The bombers, in fact, Mirage-5 and LFI-shki of the 4th generation Mirage-2000 - in pharmacy quantities. But in terms of performance characteristics, they are close to F-16 and Migars.
      Of course, it was necessary to mess and buy heavy Russian Sushki yesterday, but it would not hurt us to rock the dying MiG and get grandmothers for a fifty FFI.
      1. atalef
        atalef 25 May 2015 12: 21
        +1
        Quote: Thronekeeper
        Anvar Saddat paid for the betrayal of the USSR not only with a bullet in turnips, but also with turning the army into a dump of free American trash

        Only before Sadat, Egypt constantly fought with Israel (regularly getting on the impudent face) And after Saddat - peace - maybe someone doesn’t like it, but the world, all the lands returned and is considered the main force in the BV
        Quote: Thronekeeper
        Only under Mubarak began to receive a relatively modern thief from the United States,

        So Mubarak somehow after Saddat came to power
        Egypt has no one to fight in the district (although graters are planned with Ethiopia over nilsa water, but Ethiopia is definitely not a rival to Egypt) but no longer with anyone, Israel has given the opportunity to send troops to Sinai, now they (Egypt) are quietly wetting the jihadists there, Egypt expensive weapons are not necessary, at any rate they are at war. He receives 3 billion a year from the states free of charge, and he bought the Mig-29 on a cheap basis.
        Everything is fine, everything is according to the concept and needs (and possibilities)
      2. atalef
        atalef 25 May 2015 12: 21
        -1
        Quote: Thronekeeper
        Anvar Saddat paid for the betrayal of the USSR not only with a bullet in turnips, but also with turning the army into a dump of free American trash

        Only before Sadat, Egypt constantly fought with Israel (regularly getting on the impudent face) And after Saddat - peace - maybe someone doesn’t like it, but the world, all the lands returned and is considered the main force in the BV
        Quote: Thronekeeper
        Only under Mubarak began to receive a relatively modern thief from the United States,

        So Mubarak somehow after Saddat came to power
        Egypt has no one to fight in the district (although graters are planned with Ethiopia over nilsa water, but Ethiopia is definitely not a rival to Egypt) but no longer with anyone, Israel has given the opportunity to send troops to Sinai, now they (Egypt) are quietly wetting the jihadists there, Egypt expensive weapons are not necessary, at any rate they are at war. He receives 3 billion a year from the states free of charge, and he bought the Mig-29 on a cheap basis.
        Everything is fine, everything is according to the concept and needs (and possibilities)
  12. svp67
    svp67 25 May 2015 11: 42
    +1
    That the Egyptian leadership has a great political will to get away from American hegemony is good, but there are a lot of questions about their possibilities. Too much they are financially dependent on the United States and its Arab allies.
    1. atalef
      atalef 25 May 2015 12: 25
      0
      Quote: svp67
      That the Egyptian leadership has a great political will to get away from American hegemony,

      He doesn’t have this, in order to get away from someone, he must come to someone, with the USSR his experience is so sad that 2 times they will not attack the same rake
      And do not forget, the same Sisi grew up on American aid, armaments and cooperation, he perfectly understands. just a little more and Obama will go to his Hawaii to pick bananas, everything will be all right with the Republicans
      Quote: svp67
      but a lot of questions in their capabilities

      They do not have opportunities, only for nothing or for loans - which will be written off --- HAHAHA cash - not in this country
  13. Valkh
    Valkh 25 May 2015 11: 46
    +1
    Quote: c-Petrov
    our weapons are cheaper than analogues. Therefore, you can find money on it.

    This is not f-35 with helmets

    And the MiGs have helmets !!! Only here, in my opinion, they made a mistake !!!! Probably the price of the contract in dollars is indicated?!? good
  14. tyras85
    tyras85 25 May 2015 11: 49
    +2
    After selling these MIG-29s (old version), we will be able to re-equip our 29s with new engines with variable thrust vector. The machine is a song! I think the second one, (MIG-21), Mikoyan’s song!
  15. Dimo No. 1
    Dimo No. 1 25 May 2015 11: 52
    +1
    Mursi executed and everything fell into place winked
    1. atalef
      atalef 25 May 2015 11: 54
      +2
      Quote: Dimo№1
      Mursi executed and everything fell into place winked

      They have not executed yet and I think they will not be executed, but it’s a pity
    2. atalef
      atalef 25 May 2015 11: 54
      0
      Quote: Dimo№1
      Mursi executed and everything fell into place winked

      They have not executed yet and I think they will not be executed, but it’s a pity
      1. Thronekeeper
        Thronekeeper 25 May 2015 12: 50
        -1
        It's a pity. Although, I’m a bit opposed to SC, and I believe that extrajudicial elimination helps better both as prevention and as treatment.
        Then Sisi with hemp products to them. Stolypin introduced 700 Salafi-Saudi litter. Moreover, it’s never the victims of the regime, but the real terror, which, given the anarchy of the Sharia-liberal-necrophiles, really blamed the Coptic Christians, the indigenous people and descendants of the ancient Egyptians, by the way, although they Islamized a lot.
        The question is that Mursi should have painted an olive tree during his arrest, but there seems to be no reason to "hang him up later" - there was no power in the country, and you can't sew a humanitarian catastrophe of the Copts and a hunt for "secular" Muslims.
        In the world of dofiga, there were and are only among current and retired state leaders candidates for a cannabis tie, if we count only war crimes. Barack Hussein, Saddam Hussein (he’s the same), Barack Ehud, Budak II, De Bill, Parashenka, Srakoshvili, your Benya Netanyahu.
        Mursi did not commit explicit acts of genocide or military crimes. That is, to liquidate, so that it is not proper - it was necessary earlier. It is difficult to pull on medical devices with secular law and the absence of a state of emergency (martial law). Thank God that Sisi smeared 2,5k Shariah Liberians on the Maidan Tahrir of groats. Bashar Hafizych with his fundamentalist .razi dealt proactively, it is a pity that it is not final.
        But I would quietly feed Yaneku a botulinum and dug it near Rostov because he did not do what Assad and Sisi did.
        1. Thronekeeper
          Thronekeeper 25 May 2015 18: 15
          0
          Uti ways. The kosher’s neck was combed.
          I do not think that with a logical development of the situation, even someone will be put up to the wall of crying, except for real war criminals. Not that precious cannabis translate into hemp.
          And in general, it is not clear why the Mega-Empire can experience something other than contempt and desire to slam to the geopolitical bug, and the Russians, in response to the hatred of the Israelis, can feel something like contemptuous hatred, especially for Kaluginoid whitewashed cutoids, like Prof. Dr. Shavkin Krugeorrom and
          9mm from "burglar" or "botulinum and where is your proof". Well, or after the attack with EMP-ammunition and KR of caliber and Yakhont, the UGIL members, fed by you, will finally resolve the issue of traitors from ear to ear.