Military Review

Expert: Pending "Almaty", the Ministry of Defense should purchase T-90AM

42
It's no secret that one of the best shown at the parade in Moscow tanks modernity T-14 before launching the series expects a fairly long period of various tests. And the modern equipment of the Russian army was needed, as they say, yesterday. For light armored vehicles, the situation is clear - BTR-82 continues to arrive in the army while waiting for new products, a contract for BMP-3 deliveries is concluded. As for the purchase of tanks, the situation here is ambiguous, Lev Romanov believes in his article for Messenger of Mordovia.

Expert: Pending "Almaty", the Ministry of Defense should purchase T-90AM


“Despite the fact that a large number of modern versions of tanks were created in Nizhny Tagil, the military continues to buy the most budget version - the T-72B3 with very reduced characteristics,” the expert writes.

In his opinion, “the most vivid evidence of the mediocrity of the T-72B3 is that to participate in the tank biathlon last year, when the participation of the Abrams, Leopards and Arietta was expected, the new version of the combat vehicle, although T-72B3, but, in fact, was a completely new tank. "

According to military analysts, when “Armata” starts to enter the troops, it will not be easy for tankmen to transfer from T-72B3 and T-90А to T-14. This is a completely different level.

According to the author, “now an intermediate model of the tank is needed, which would be something average between the old cars and the Armata.” And there is already such a tank - this is the T-90CM “Breakthrough”. The next version of the tank, thanks to the installation on it of the same gun as the T-14, received the designation T-90AM.

“The radically modernized“ nineties ”, who had been deployed to the troops, would become a kind of“ training party, ”and they will be able to train future lieutenants and other commanders of tank units. T-90AM for a number of units and electronic systems are very close to Armata, the same repair services will understand what they can expect during the operation of T-14, ”writes Romanov.

In his opinion, it is also necessary to take into account that foreign buyers are more willing to purchase equipment that is already in service with the manufacturing country.





Photos used:
vestnik-rm.ru
42 comments
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  1. Dreiko11
    Dreiko11 25 May 2015 11: 09
    +18
    It looks really good, I like it.
    1. Baatyr
      Baatyr 25 May 2015 11: 10
      +15
      Breakthrough! It looks very decent. It is necessary to purchase.
      1. GSH-18
        GSH-18 25 May 2015 11: 18
        +17
        According to the author, "now an intermediate model of the tank is needed, which would be something in between the old machines and the" Armata ""

        No, well, if the author pays for it, then no problems!
        And in my opinion right now we need at least simulators in the troops for training under T-14! It’s cheaper (now it’s not a war) and after the simulator the crews can be put into real T-14, which will begin to enter the troops!
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 11: 23
          +8
          GSh-18 (
          Your faith in fairy tales, at the expense of the sword-treasurer and others, are certainly wonderful, but the trouble is, in reality, everything is not so.
          Tanks of the new series, now and immediately, in service?
          Simulators simulators?
          Well then, the World of Tanks, a funky tactical simulator.
          Cheaper and much more necessary, conducting R&D, testing and bringing to the required characteristics Armata and machines based on them, keep the T90 production as machines, along with the modernized T72, whose resource, as well as the crews for which there are still enough in the country.
          Otherwise, with your cries, come on, come on, you will definitely enter the situation of 1941, when the old ones have been increasing their resources, and the new ones are completely unfamiliar with a bunch of sores.
          1. GSH-18
            GSH-18 25 May 2015 11: 38
            +1
            Quote: vladkavkaz
            Your faith in fairy tales, at the expense of the sword-treasurer and others, are certainly wonderful, but the trouble is, in reality, everything is not so.

            That is, you want to say that the T-14 is such a complicated technique that to control it you need to graduate from the academy and practice on "cats" ??? While the T-14 parade was operated by regular military mechanics ...
            But this is bullshit! "Experts" apparently want to cut the state budget, so they are trying to talk about some mythical transitional models from the T-90 to the T-14. Think with your head request
            1. vladkavkaz
              vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 11: 47
              +6
              GSh-18 (5
              I want to say that the idiots got stuck about ARMATA, IT IS NOT STILL AVAILABLE and will not be in the troops for a long time in the required quantity.
              But the TANK, a thing in itself in the war, is a necessary land and if you yell, why do we need the T72-90 series, then you cry everything to the state of 41 years.
              So yourself, with your head at least sometimes think.
              And lastly, just below the clever comment svp67 SU Today, 11:39 ↑, read and Think, and not talk nonsense.
              Tanks such as ARMATA, it is advisable and necessary not to poke anywhere, but only and only in the Higher Brigade and higher formations, and that's the only way.
              And in units, motorized brigade and lower, to have tanks T72 (mod) and T90. Think at least sometimes, what are you shouting about.
              1. GSH-18
                GSH-18 25 May 2015 19: 19
                0
                Quote: vladkavkaz
                I want to say that the idiots got stuck about ARMATA, IT IS NOT STILL AVAILABLE and will not be in the troops for a long time in the required quantity.

                In fact, 10 pieces of T-14 are already undergoing military pre-production operation. They arrived there from the parade on May 9 of this year.
                But where did you get that T-14 "and will not be in the army for a long time" I can’t comment on this either, if you want to think so, it’s your right.
                Quote: vladkavkaz
                then you and your cries lead everything to the state of 41 years.

                What are the screams? What is the 41st year? Act, the war ended 70 years ago! Only the anniversary was celebrated. Do not be so nervous, otherwise write unconnected.
                1. vladkavkaz
                  vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 19: 23
                  +1
                  GSh-18 (5
                  How old are you?
                  You really don’t understand what is trial operation, product refinement, pre-production, installation lot and SERIES?
                  1. GSH-18
                    GSH-18 25 May 2015 19: 38
                    0
                    Quote: vladkavkaz
                    You really don’t understand what trial operation is, refinement

                    So I just understand. And you, I see, not really. Sincerely.
                    1. vladkavkaz
                      vladkavkaz 26 May 2015 07: 50
                      0
                      GSh-18 (5
                      I regret to have to disappoint you-DO NOT understand.
                      The desire to have something new and more understandable, but so far it does not correspond to reality.
                2. Aleks tv
                  Aleks tv 25 May 2015 20: 05
                  +3
                  Quote: GSH-18
                  But where did you get the idea that the T-14 "and will not be in the army for a long time" I cannot comment on this in any way, if you want to think so, this is your right.

                  Know that I'm interfering ...
                  hi
                  But in general, Vlad is right.
                  - State testing is about a year at best.
                  - Run through the climate zones and military tests less than a year to do - only gusli to mix.
                  And this is a very optimistic forecast, right through pink glasses.
                  If UVZ meets the deadline of two years, they have the utmost respect.
                  Plus the assembly line seems to be unfinished and the equipment for it is in the "boxes". There is no secret here, if yes, then Tagilians will correct me.
                  In the experimental workshops - you can’t make a lot of things.

                  Hurry up with the serialization of Almaty - this means releasing a crude machine into the troops.
                  FSE still remember the FIRST deliveries of the T-64 ...
                  The Figs were combat-ready units ... is it necessary again?

                  No, "we don't need a blacksmith", Mazuta has enough entertainment as it is.)))
                  wink
                  Let them bring the T-72Б3 to the required state and polish the file well with a file.
          2. svp67
            svp67 25 May 2015 11: 39
            +24
            Quote: vladkavkaz
            keep the production of the T90 as a machine, along with the modernized T72, the resource of which, as well as the crews for which there is still enough in the country.

            Everything can be made easier. There is no need to produce T90 on the main line of UVZ, which is now very quickly being rebuilt for "Armata", you can use the capacities of the Omsk plant. Where to arrange the modernization of the existing T72 by replacing the towers and other equipment in the T90AM. By the way, this could be done with the existing T80 fleet. By unifying our tanks in the fighting compartment. As a result, for the transition period, we could have a minimum of tank modifications with the maximum possible unification. And retraining, on "Armata" would be easier, and the main conveyor would not be distracted. By the way, it would not be bad to check the capacities in St. Petersburg in terms of carrying out such works. That is, to quietly return to the Soviet system, making temporary adjustments.
            1. vladkavkaz
              vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 11: 48
              +4
              svp67 SU
              That's it, thanks for the very clever and necessary commentary for understanding the situation.
        2. NEXUS
          NEXUS 25 May 2015 12: 14
          +4
          Quote: GSH-18
          And in my opinion right now we need at least simulators in the troops for training under T-14! It’s cheaper (now it’s not a war) and after the simulator the crews can be put into real T-14, which will begin to enter the troops!

          Simulators are already in the army. It's not a simulator. Until Armata is brought to the serial version (the conversation is about taking the 152 mm gun), until the series reaches the required quantitative levels, again, until all this is rolled in and fired at in the troops ... there is still time. And given all this psychosis and hysteria in the world, and serious preparations for war, the purchase of the T-90 is a very good idea. hi
      2. Imperial
        Imperial 25 May 2015 11: 28
        +3
        Baatyr EN
        Breakthrough! It looks very decent. It is necessary to purchase.
        What looks like is not an argument, but what’s between., Well, the very budget version 72B3 and Armata are a kind of vacuum, yes ... And the taste and color ..
        1. st25310
          st25310 25 May 2015 11: 37
          +14

          What is hidden in the "Armata" tower
      3. sub307
        sub307 25 May 2015 12: 36
        +3
        Yes, the T-90 is definitely preferable. However, when planning an order, the Defense Ministry proceeds from financial considerations, and for this reason "... the military continues to buy the most budgetary version - the T-72B3 with very curtailed characteristics." The tank looks good, but the budget is apparently not very good.
      4. Alekseev
        Alekseev 25 May 2015 15: 32
        +2
        Quote: Baatyr
        It is necessary to purchase.

        It doesn’t look at all, but in the fact that transdobols are circulating again ...
        Which desk? In some way, are the T-90AM very close to the Armata in terms of a number of units and electronic systems?
        Even analyzing the scarce information from the open press, we can conclude that the MTO (engine and transmission) is different, aiming and surveillance devices, too, AZ is not at all what it is.
        Platform not T-72, but Armata, However.
        And they wrote about T-72B3 more than once that they were being bought so that there would be enough tanks with satisfactory TTX available for the price and most importantly having ample supply motor resources.
    2. insafufa
      insafufa 25 May 2015 11: 13
      +4
      I also think that while it would be possible to buy T90 until they debug Armata
      1. Blondy
        Blondy 25 May 2015 11: 22
        +2
        Quote: insafufa
        I also think that while it would be possible to buy T90 until they debug Armata

        What, somewhere is preparing a tank breakthrough?
      2. GSH-18
        GSH-18 25 May 2015 11: 23
        +8
        Quote: insafufa
        I also think that while it would be possible to buy T90 until they debug Armata

        Armata passed factory tests. Debugging is complete at this point. Now it’s the turn of trial operation in the tank troops! Where did the first T-14s go right from the victory parade on May 9, 2015. What are the T-90s? WHAT then did Armata do? Now all the forces and means should be invested in the trial operation of the T-14 in order to launch its adapted version in the SERIES as quickly as possible! And not any BUT! angry
    3. max702
      max702 25 May 2015 11: 21
      +6
      And especially when you consider that one of the senior officials stated that in connection with the current dollar exchange rate, the t-90AM cost is slightly more than $ 2 million. For example, even 3 million will cost 1 billion 330 pieces, for Mistars they cost from 1 to 3 billion, this is from 330 to 1000 pieces. Something tells me that a 1000pcs T-90 is much more useful to us than an imported trough with vague prospects for combat use ..
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 25 May 2015 11: 30
        0
        And you need to get rid of all trash like T-72B3. Immediately and uncompromisingly. The world is full of underdeveloped countries, where seventy-two will be a great help. Meanwhile, riveting Almaty itself is not an experimental medium tank, but the main one, with 152 mm.
        1. Maxom75
          Maxom75 25 May 2015 12: 26
          +2
          I can even tell who exactly needs the T72B3 Syria and Iraq. Now they will be ready to take at least 1000 pcs. otherwise they cannot cope with ISIS. But don’t say that, but a tank is a fortress on the battlefield, and it’s mobile. They also need Pinocchio, Gorynych, and combat modules of the Terminators. In addition, you can help rooks and Mi-24. If we do not help Syria and Iraq now, then we will have to fight in Central Asia already with the horde of ISIS and the Taliban. This is clearly not necessary for Russia now.
    4. yushch
      yushch 25 May 2015 11: 43
      +1
      Definitely, these beauties will not be superfluous, even when the Fragrance goes into series. Such a reserve just will not pull a pocket. =))
      1. yushch
        yushch 25 May 2015 20: 43
        0
        Quote: yushch
        Definitely, these beauties will not be superfluous, even when the Fragrance goes into series. Such a reserve just will not pull a pocket. =))

        Fucking corrector in the tablet !!! Of course, handsome and Armata. =)
    5. Ruslan
      Ruslan 25 May 2015 12: 09
      0
      handsome, ugly, little devil :) looks very futuristic!
    6. pr 627
      pr 627 25 May 2015 12: 42
      +2
      Russian Ground Forces: 1400 T-72B / BA units and 150 T-72B3 units (additionally 7500 T-72, T-72A / B units stored) as of 2014. The T-90 is a deep modernization of the T-72B, created at the Nizhny Tagil UKBTM in 1989 under the leadership of Vladimir Potkin, chief engineer, as the “Advanced T-72B. Upgrading the T-72B to the T-72B3 level costs 52 million rubles in 2013 prices, of which 30 million is spent on the overhaul of the tank, the remaining amount is spent on the purchase of new devices selected by the customer. In 2010, the purchase price of the T-90 under supply contracts The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation amounted to 70 million rubles. As of 2011, the cost of the new T-90 increased markedly and amounted to 118 million rubles. Since the end of 2011, the purchase of T-90 tanks for the Russian Armed Forces has been discontinued. For me, the thoughts of the so-called expert are very stupid.
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 12: 49
        +1
        pr 627
        We take something for someone and see where these figures come from, but as at the AMZ, repair of 4 BTR 80 bridges in the army (42000r) is equal in cost to repair 2 bridges on the same BTR, and the difference in labor input is very, very large .
        And so everywhere, around where the private trader dictates his prices, often taken in the natural sense from the air.
        It begs itself, the military-industrial complex cannot belong to private traders, from their presence in this system only inflating their pockets with loot to the detriment of defense capability.
    7. Kent0001
      Kent0001 25 May 2015 13: 09
      0
      Yes, really a formidable and beautiful car, especially in full "stuffing".
  2. Roman 1977
    Roman 1977 25 May 2015 11: 10
    +18
    Expert: Pending "Almaty", the Ministry of Defense should purchase T-90AM

    Instruction to srachs about Armata / "Kurganets / Boomerang

    1) Running:
    - If the chassis 6-katkovaya - "it is outdated and does not have the modernization potential."
    - If the chassis 7-katkovaya - "it is redundant and eats up all the weight gain."
    2) Exhaust:
    - If the exhaust side - "unmasks the tank and weakens the protection."
    - If the exhaust is from behind - “prevents movement in the column.”
    3) Optical channel:
    - If there is a direct optical channel - "complicates and increases the cost of construction, indicates the backwardness of Russian electronics."
    - If there is no direct optical channel - "the system is unreliable, with the slightest malfunction the tank goes blind."
    4) Protection:
    - "Protection boards is insufficient." No options.
    - "Protection of the roof is insufficient." No options.
    5) CAS:
    - If KAZ is not present - “a tank without KAZ cannot be considered promising.”
    - If there is a KAZ - “it unmasks a tank and makes it difficult to interact with infantry, the radar stations are vulnerable”.
    6) DZ:
    - "Shitty." No options.
    7) COEP:
    - "Horseradish." No options.
    Sighting system:
    - "Horseradish." No options.
    9) Anti-aircraft machine gun:
    “If 12,7 is“ redundant, outdated caliber, clear posons put 7,62. ”
    - If 7,62 is “insufficient outdated caliber, clear posons put 12,7.”
    10) Armament:
    - If 125 mm - "insufficient and outdated caliber for a promising tank."
    - If 152 mm - "excessive caliber, indicates the backwardness of Russian shells."
    11) Cost:
    - If less than 5 million dollars - "one-time cheap."
    - If more than 5 million dollars - "drank."
    12) Dimensions
    - a large tank - easy to get into it, nowhere to hide.
    - the tank is small - it is difficult to get out of it, the grass is high in the way.
    13) Automatic Loader
    - there is - a tall black man charges faster, AZ fails, lomnlezet.
    - No - returned to the T-34, the Negro quickly gets tired.
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 11: 15
      +6
      Roman 1977 (
      Sorry, but now you are wrong.
      The T90 is a good car, as well as the modernized T72 with new modules, until the industry tunes the release of ARMAT in the required quantity, these tanks will last for many years. To discount these machines is stupid, and also criminal, and so some of them are already rubbing their palms, they say by utilization "obsolete" we will deal with.
      And more.
      T14 tanks, should be put into operation not anywhere else and everywhere, but in the newly created formations, and in parts, such as OMSBr, to have t90 and t72 after the corresponding modernization.
      1. Roman 1977
        Roman 1977 25 May 2015 12: 01
        +2
        Quote: vladkavkaz
        Sorry, but now you are wrong.

        Nothing to apologize for...
        Quote: vladkavkaz
        The T90 is a good machine, as well as the upgraded t72 with new modules, until the industry tunes the release of the APGM in the required amount, these tanks will last for many years.

        And this is not disputed, for there are no other machines on the horizon yet, and the production of "Armat" has not yet been established, and when Gd's message will be adjusted ... Plus the high cost, "childhood diseases", etc. etc.
        Quote: vladkavkaz
        To discard these machines is stupid, but also criminal, and so some part of them is already rubbing their palms, they say, we will deal with the disposal of the "obsolete".

        If we remove the T-72 / T-90 from the troops, then we will remain without tanks: T-64s are taken out of storage (2000 machines, according to Wiki), the same situation with T-80, which are planning to be removed from service this year in order to unify the tank park.
        But, there is one point, why release NEW T-90s, especially since of the 550 T-90 / T-90A units produced, 200 units are in storage. And this is not counting 1400 T-72B / BA units and 150 T-72B3 units (in addition, there are 7500 T-72, T-72A / B units in storage). Upgrade them, bring the T-72BZ to the level of the T-90. This can be done by RTZ without clogging the UVZ conveyor. And this article is a typical "order" from the "barons" of the defense industry complex, who grab orders and then regularly disrupt the implementation of the state defense order, such as our Nizhny Novgorod AMZ, so much so that Shoigu and Rogozin had to come to understand. The guys want to continue producing the T-90 and to train the T-14 "Armata". So sorry "Bolivar can't stand two." How many good cars have already been destroyed in this way ...
        Quote: vladkavkaz
        T14 tanks, should be put into operation not anywhere else and everywhere, but in the newly created formations, and in parts, such as OMSBr, to have t90 and t72 after the corresponding modernization.

        And they will go like this: the first parties to schools, then Tamanskaya and Kantemirovka, and only then to the troops. Remember 2008 and the war "888", when T-62s entered Georgia ...
        1. vladkavkaz
          vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 12: 23
          +1
          Roman 1977
          "when the T-62 entered Georgia" - from the 42nd mechanized infantry division, they were there just in place, new in those conditions was not needed.
          With regards to modernization, re-equipment at RTZ .. doubts take what they will do, then all the same, the Plant is needed and not a re-enterprise .. It cannot cope, for example, with the BTRZ Kuschevka with the stream of modernization.
          But what svp67 SU offers is Today, 11:39 ↑, it would be better.
          Again, only BUT-where will these same barons from the MIC, accustomed to snatch a piece of fatter, but nothing really done ??
          Shoigu and Rogozin would be worth strengthening the work on the withdrawal of the MIC from private raking little hands ..
          1. Roman 1977
            Roman 1977 25 May 2015 12: 44
            +3
            Quote: vladkavkaz
            "when the T-62 entered Georgia" - from the 42nd mechanized infantry division, they were there just in place, new in those conditions was not needed.

            Thank God that the Georgians turned out to be useless tankers and abandoned their tanks, and there were no big tank battles. For the Israeli-modernized Georgian T-72SIM-1 (new FALCON radio stations from Harris, a GPS-based navigation system, a friend-and-foe definition system, thermal imagers for the commander and gunner, mounted DZ), a very good car that could cause us many problems.

            Not without reason, according to some information, they were put into service with our army.
            Russia took for itself 44 Georgian tanks, captured by Russian peacekeepers in the zone of the Georgian-Ossetian conflict, Interfax reports on August 16, citing the assistant to the commander-in-chief of the RF Ground Forces, Colonel Igor Konashenkov.

            Quote: vladkavkaz
            With regards to modernization, re-equipment at RTZ .. doubts take what they will do, then all the same, the Plant is needed and not a re-enterprise .. It cannot cope, for example, with the BTRZ Kuschevka with the stream of modernization.

            Modernization of T-72B to the level of T-72Б3 costs 52 million rubles in 2013 prices of the year, of which 30 million is spent on tank overhauls, the remaining amount is spent on the acquisition of new devices selected by the customer. The cost of the T-90- 2,5 million is forever green at 1999 year prices; 2,77 - 4,25 million in 2011 of the year; T-90CM (export modification of T-90AM, which is referred to in the article) will draw on 4,5 million.

            Think for yourself ... Do not forget that the upgrade is being carried out in Omsk, where T-80 was previously produced, so that Tagil is not attracted to it.

            Quote: vladkavkaz
            Again, only BUT-where will these same barons from the MIC, accustomed to snatch a piece of fatter, but nothing really done ??
            Shoigu and Rogozin would be worth strengthening the work on the withdrawal of the MIC from private raking little hands ..

            Unfortunately Shoigu and Rogozin are not enough for everyone. And most importantly, the "school" of domestic producers, namely engineers and workers, was largely killed, when young people in the 90s went anywhere: to become bandits, lawyers, accountants, but not a factory. And plus the "weapons barons", the main task of which "grab" more orders in order to master more state money from the treasury, and then shrug their shoulders: "Well, I didn’t do it, I didn’t do it ...". Well, plus "the fish rots from the head":
            1. vladkavkaz
              vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 12: 52
              +1
              Roman 1977
              Hmm .. here is the last picture, exactly in place.
            2. vladkavkaz
              vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 13: 24
              +2
              Roman 1977 (
              By the way, while the GABTU is headed by a lover of gold plates and wine glasses, a certain gentleman Shevchenko and K, you won’t see anything sensible.
              Everyone who thinks something, this one, has long been gobbled up and shoved out of service .. As for example, the NBTS SKVO, Mr. M. Yu.
      2. g1v2
        g1v2 25 May 2015 12: 02
        +2
        The basis of our tank troops for many years is the T72 and its modifications. In my opinion, how to buy T90, knowing that there will be a rearmament for armature, it is necessary to upgrade as much as possible T72 to T72b3. In terms of characterization, it is equal to the usual T90, but for the price we can get more modern tanks than if we build from scratch. We have the most tanks in the world and are still in storage. The strength of our tank troops lies in their mass character. The main condition is to maintain this massiveness, and for this it is necessary to modernize these 9-10 thousand tons of 72 different modifications, which are in service and in storage. And then the tank troops will carry out any tasks that they will be assigned. T90 we have 350-500 pieces and plus or minus a hundred we will not do weather at all. In my opinion, you need to upgrade the old T72s - as much as possible and then gradually buy the armatures. It should be understood that the T72 armata will not replace another 15 years. They will be purchased at a hundred a year at best. By the way, this year they are planning to withdraw the T80 from service and our tank fleet will decrease by 600 vehicles, it would be nice to upgrade 700 t72 units for replacement.
        1. sclerosis
          sclerosis 25 May 2015 16: 17
          +1
          Unfortunately, the T-72B3, which is now entering the troops, is not T-90 at all according to its characteristics. This has been discussed many times in many sources. And it is for this reason that today's discussion has arisen. Not knowing the fullness of the economic and technological information, I venture to suggest that if for some reason the production of the T-90 is difficult or significantly more expensive (again, actual figures, calculations are required), it is instead of the miserable T-72B3 (not equal, as already it was said, the biathlon modification of the same name) to upgrade the existing T-72 fleet to a level adequate to today's day. Probably based on the biathlon version and equipped with all the necessary monitoring and communication devices.
      3. Lord of the Sith
        Lord of the Sith 25 May 2015 12: 42
        +3
        And where does the novel 1977? He generally quoted "whiners". And where did he say in his words that the T-90 is a BAD CAR?
      4. major124
        major124 25 May 2015 16: 12
        0
        And no one says that the T-72 with new modules or the T-90 is bad .... they say that they will not be taken ....
    2. Virek
      Virek 25 May 2015 11: 30
      -2
      Well, well ... this is how one "smart" mega-expert crumpled the work of a team of engineers ...
      By the way, the simplest thing in life is to give advice and criticize someone else's work ...
      "excess gauge" - how's that?
      "insufficient and outdated caliber" - what is this?
      I draw conclusions about our "mega expert" in his own words: "Shitty. No options."
    3. The comment was deleted.
  3. silver169
    silver169 25 May 2015 11: 14
    +11
    It would be very good if the Russian Ministry of Defense did so, would buy several hundred T-90SM or T-90AM. It will take a few more years until the "Armata" is finished (rather, it would be), and modern tanks are needed like air today. Especially considering the evolving international situation.
  4. prabiz
    prabiz 25 May 2015 11: 16
    +3
    It’s still far from using Armata, and new equipment is needed in the army, so a breakthrough is needed!
  5. Loner_53
    Loner_53 25 May 2015 11: 18
    +2
    It is necessary to buy, because until it comes to the "Armata" an intermediate machine is needed, the T-90AM will not be superfluous, and more is desirable
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 May 2015 11: 33
      +2
      Quote: Loner_53
      It is necessary to buy, because until it comes to the "Armata" an intermediate machine is needed, the T-90AM will not be superfluous, and more is desirable

      What will refuse for the sake of T-90AM? From the T-72B3? There is no chance - otherwise we will return to pre-Derduk times: 1-2 battalions of new tanks a year, and the remaining BTVs ride the Soviet legacy, constantly reviving it with the help of crowbar, sledgehammer and someone's mother. T-72B3 is not a conspiracy of the military and industry. This, unfortunately, is the only option to get relatively new tanks quickly and a lot. For the tank fleet of the Republic of Armenia is outdated and worn out in mass - and the homeopathic doses of T-90 in the matter of its recovery were that to the elephant.
  6. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 25 May 2015 11: 22
    +3
    According to the author, “now an intermediate model of the tank is needed, which would be something average between the old cars and the Armata.” And there is already such a tank - this is the T-90CM “Breakthrough”. The next version of the tank, thanks to the installation on it of the same gun as the T-14, received the designation T-90AM.

    5 types of MBT: T-72. T-80, T-90 "basic", T-90 "transitional" and T-14. Back in the USSR.

    In addition, UVZ will have to simultaneously produce the T-72B3, T-90AM and the first T-14 series. Because the army will not refuse cheap and massive T-72B3 - BTV is urgently needed, just yesterday, replace about 2000 tanks of the times of the USSR. Any other model simply does not provide the required pace of replacement.
    1. vladkavkaz
      vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 11: 27
      +1
      Alexey RA
      Exactly. So it is. In Russia, to have 1500-2000ARMAT is called to have nothing at all.
      I remember the whole liberal army was yelling, why the Union of 50000 tanks, as it turns out, is not a lot, especially when the need has pinned down, and there is nowhere to take, an example of Ruins, with their liberal stupidity regarding the state of both BTV and the ability to produce something.
      1. Basarev
        Basarev 25 May 2015 11: 34
        0
        In general, I am radical in this matter: it would be best if Russia had 50000 Armat and no other tanks. Because, frankly, other tanks are ancient rubbish, which are welcome only in Asia.
    2. Eugene-Eugene
      Eugene-Eugene 25 May 2015 11: 36
      0
      Of course you're right. The budget is not rubber. And what to do with the 72nd after the beginning of the admission of Armata? Everything is calculated correctly: to upgrade them to B3, even if it is a "cut-off version" of the 90s, but clearly better than the original design, as the T-14 becomes saturated, put it in reserve, it will be a good help in case of large losses. And in the Ukrainian conflict, we see that they are never small: the Armed Forces of Ukraine lost 514 T-64 (as of February 2015) out of 2 tanks of all types [http://voprosik.net/sostoyanie-armii-ukrainy-fevral-585 /].
  7. asadov
    asadov 25 May 2015 11: 22
    0
    From Ukraine, debts to shake here and the money for the T-90 will appear ....
  8. vkl-47
    vkl-47 25 May 2015 11: 26
    -4
    Let this fucking expert put his tongue in his ass
  9. 34 region
    34 region 25 May 2015 11: 27
    0
    Amused expression-budget tanks. Although for some reason there are no budget cars, salaries and apartment management. In general, a rather interesting situation with budget affairs (and not only in the military sector).
  10. KGB WATCH YOU
    KGB WATCH YOU 25 May 2015 11: 27
    +8
    When did the T-90SM (export, our AM) first appear there? It seems in 2011. Now, if the T-90AM would be purchased from the age of 11, it would be the norm. But instead, they started to do just the most finished of all possible modifications - T-72B3! The most ideal option for 2015 is modernization all T-90A to T-90AM, stop mocking the T-72, and start modernize according to the T-72B2 "Slingshot" project, and to prepare capacities for the production of T-14.
    T-90AM Breakthrough
    T-72B2 Slingshot
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 May 2015 11: 51
      +2
      Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
      Now, if the T-90AM would be purchased from the age of 11, it would be the norm.

      And don’t talk. Now, probably, a whole division would have been armed with a T-90AM.
      And the rest - would ride on the ancient T-72A or B (and even T-62 / T-55AM - there were such connections). If you would ride, and not even be afraid to sneeze at them, so that they do not fail.
      Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
      The most ideal option for 2015 is to upgrade all T-90A to T-90AM, stop mocking the T-72, and start modernizing the Slingshot T-72B2 project, and prepare the capacity for the T-14 production.

      Fine. And we again return to 60-100 new tanks a year. If necessary, emergency replacement of a minimum of 2000 cars.
      1. KGB WATCH YOU
        KGB WATCH YOU 25 May 2015 12: 15
        0
        According to my plan, we get 500 T-90AM + 500 T-72B2 + 1000/1500 T-14 (I do not believe about 2300 T-14 until 2020). Result: 2000-2500 new tanks + junk T-72B. Until 2020, there should be 70% of new equipment, hence 2500 new tanks and 750 T-72B (all approximately). Something like this.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 25 May 2015 12: 35
          0
          Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
          According to my plan, we get 500 T-90AM + 500 T-72B2 + 1000/1500 T-14 (I do not believe about 2300 T-14 until 2020). Result: 2000-2500 new tanks + junk T-72B. Until 2020, there should be 70% of new equipment, hence 2500 new tanks and 750 T-72B (all approximately). Something like this.

          70% of new technology until 2020. You know, I already saw a similar plan - in the report of Fedorenko in the spring of 1941 it was planned to have 30 new tanks by 000. Schedules of production and delivery were planned, and the states were drawn up. The result is known.
          And now the situation is even worse: if the USSR updated its tank fleet at least in parts of the first line, then we did not have a mass update before the start of deliveries of the T-72B3. While the T-90AM and T-72B2 (and even more so the T-14) would massively join the army, our BTV would turn into infantry.
          1. vladkavkaz
            vladkavkaz 25 May 2015 12: 45
            +1
            Alexey RA
            Conclusion?
            Leave everything as it is in anticipation of the miracle of Armata, or is it still the modernization of the existing one, including the release of t90?
            Debugged production and on-stream, or only adjusted and small-scale?
            Something like clumsy some kind .. there are new modules-Burlak or something like that, does it strengthen the tank or not?
            If yes, it strengthens and the characteristics increase, then why not streamline the modernization of existing ones, for example, in Omsk, and at UVZ already in this case the lines under Armata and its modular variations?
            It’s clear that it’s hard, but Leningradsky in this case, having pulled something to someone, something to restore, the same 80 in the conditions of the Arctic and the North in general, is much more preferable to diesel ...
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 May 2015 13: 44
              +1
              Quote: vladkavkaz
              Leave everything as it is in anticipation of the miracle of Armata, or is it still the modernization of the existing one, including the release of t90?

              Modernization. Good that tank corps The USSR has boiled so much that enough for everyone.
              The new intermediate tank, I'm afraid, will postpone the T-14 series. Because non rubber factory.
          2. KGB WATCH YOU
            KGB WATCH YOU 25 May 2015 12: 55
            0
            The T-72B3 is not a modernization, its only plus is some new MSA, which is worse than it seems on the T-90. Defense K-5 - useless old stuff, dviglo - old ("biathlon modifications" don't count), etc. B3 doesn't improve anything, a waste of money. The purchase itself was a mistake, it was necessary to buy B2. Now it would not be 600 B3, but 400-500 B2, is it bad? You gave an example of plans before the Second World War, but ... who will attack us from Europe? Germany with 200 tanks? The only enemy against which thousands of "B3s and the like of shit-modernization" are needed is China. Are we going to fight with China?
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 25 May 2015 13: 52
              +1
              Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
              You gave an example of plans before the Second World War, but ... who will attack us from Europe? Germany with 200 tanks? The only enemy against which thousands of "B3s and the like of shit-modernization" are needed is China. Are we going to fight with China?

              We are going to maintain the combat readiness of our BTV. And our worst enemy is time and wear. The basis of the tank fleet of the RA served for 20 years without replacement and modernization.
              Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
              The purchase itself was a mistake, it was necessary to buy B2. Now it would be not 600 B3, but 400-500 B2, is it bad?

              Ahem .. I’m embarrassed to ask - how much does the T-72B2 cost?
              1. KGB WATCH YOU
                KGB WATCH YOU 25 May 2015 14: 14
                0
                Quote: Alexey RA
                We are going to maintain the combat readiness of our BTV. And our worst enemy is time and wear. The basis of the tank fleet of the RA served for 20 years without replacement and modernization.

                Following this logic, you could just capitalize the T-72B / BA / BM smile Efficiency would be the same, only money would not be enough for 600 tanks, but 1200 for example.
                Quote: Alexey RA
                Ahem .. I’m embarrassed to ask - how much does the T-72B2 cost?

                No idea, in open sources no. To B3 screw "Relic", engine 1000 hp, cannon 2А46М-5 (as on T-90MS) and get "Slingshot".
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 25 May 2015 15: 14
                  0
                  Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
                  Following this logic, you could just capitalize the T-72B / BA / BM

                  And it turns out that way. They took the tank from storage, uncapitalized the chassis and dviglo, stuck a new DZ, communication and a budget version of the FCS - and here it is, the T-72BZ. For everything about everything - 52 lemons per tank and the existing plant area. UVZ also reported that in order to switch from the new T-90A to the modernization of the T-72BZ, the second shift had to be returned.
                  Quote: KGB WATCH YOU
                  No idea, in open sources no. To B3 screw "Relic", engine 1000 hp, cannon 2А46М-5 (as on T-90MS) and get "Slingshot".

                  Get a budget T-90A. Machines 100 per year MO will master. Those. 20 years to replace.
                  1. KGB WATCH YOU
                    KGB WATCH YOU 25 May 2015 15: 28
                    0
                    100 Slingshots vs 150 T-72B3 - I would choose the first soldier

                    What is being molded from the T-72 is wrecking, they put Contact-5, which protects the maximum from + - RPG-7, having virtually no protection from the BOPs, an old engine that is 100 years old at lunch.

                    The only plus is the SLA, and even the panorama doesn’t even have an automatic shutter laughing You have to unscrew the bolts with your hands.
  11. Aleks tv
    Aleks tv 25 May 2015 11: 41
    +9
    T-90AM is good for everyone.
    Run-in and well-known tank in the army, which made an excellent upgrade.
    Wah.

    Armata still drive around the ranges and prank on military trials.
    And there will be no instant saturation of linear parts with new machines, this is unrealistic.

    The truth is really that along with Armata another tank of previous generations will be in service, and it will be for a long timelong enough.
    What kind of car will it be?
    This question has long been asked at all levels. On this topic have been raised for more than one year.
    - Will it be T-90A? Then why not release new cars?
    - Will it be a T-80 family car? Yes, it seems they put on BHVT and CBRT.
    - Will it be a T-72 family car? Well, if together with Armata of years 10 the T-72 will be installed at the same time in the B3 configuration, then this is not at all ridiculous ... but for now it’s going to that.
    Bring to mind B3 ??? And why not finish it? What are we waiting for ?

    I am writing this to the point: somehow it is weak to believe that T-90AM will stand at the same time as Armata ... There is a dull silence on all fronts.
    That would be the best option. Eheh.
    He’s not cheap ...
    But good, very good, Handsome.
    feel
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 25 May 2015 11: 54
      +2
      Quote: Aleks tv
      The truth is really that along with Armata another tank of the previous generations will be in service, and it will be a long time, a long enough time.
      What kind of car will it be?
      This question has long been asked at all levels. On this topic have been raised for more than one year.
      - Will it be T-90A? Then why not release new cars?
      - Will it be a T-80 family car? Yes, it seems they put on BHVT and CBRT.
      - Will it be a T-72 family car? Well, if together with Armata of years 10 the T-72 will be installed at the same time in the B3 configuration, then this is not at all ridiculous ... but for now it’s going to that.

      T-80 will not be accurate. Tank production LKZ died. Omsk - went to UVZ. So the T-80 will be driven in a pair of formations until the resource is exhausted, podshamanivaya them from time to time by 61 BTRZ.
  12. Nehist
    Nehist 25 May 2015 11: 51
    +2
    And we still have t-55s in operation at OTB. We have been waiting for the promised T-80s for 12 years :(
  13. Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 25 May 2015 12: 00
    0
    I fully support !!! The troops need the T-90AM, if possible more. It is not known when Armata will go to the troops ... and when the saturation of the troops with new tanks will be even more foggy, and the "Breakthrough" is already ready and tested, a very good tank. Now it is up to the government, because this is finance and not small ones ... But this is really the best option.
  14. RiverVV
    RiverVV 25 May 2015 12: 05
    0
    What can I say? At one time, the T-34 was also accepted into service with a lot of imperfections and reservations. Neither the production of the diesel engine, nor the welding of the armor under a layer of flux was properly debugged, and the gear was switched by two mechanics and a radio operator. But the war was on the doorstep. The Wehrmacht was strengthening and even if the new tank was raw, it is better than none. Subsequently, the factories did not begin to transfer to the production of T-43 and T-44 because the front demanded exactly quantity, not quality. With the "Armata" in the same way it is still written with a pitchfork on the water. It can become a mass tank, or it can remain an experimental machine (although the latter seems unlikely).

    As for the latest T-90s ... I would not want to meet him sitting in a trench. Even if you have something anti-tank with you. For the good old "Fly" this machine is said to be practically invulnerable. Is that to wait for the collision and heroically bang in the bottom.
  15. wild
    wild 25 May 2015 12: 12
    -4
    But Shoigu was asked by experts what he thinks about this? And another most sacred question, where is the money Zin? Well this is how much dough you need to blow on the armature and on t 90? Or that we are planning a world war tomorrow? It is necessary to produce the best and breakthrough else to forget, and as the forum member rightly said, it is cheaper and easier to rivet simulators and train crews on them.
  16. Maxom75
    Maxom75 25 May 2015 12: 33
    +2
    For the transitional period of 5-10 years, the T-90Am makes sense to take, but for a longer time the issue is debatable. We will again go to a large number of platforms, and as a result, the effect of unification and cheaper services will disappear. After all, it is not enough to make armored vehicles - this is only the first item of expenses, and also operational, maintenance and modernization expenses. For this, they made Armata. T-90 and T-72 have already come to the peak of their modernization threshold, what to hang on them further? Moreover, our population is not like in China, we cannot sacrifice the lives of tankers like the Chinese.
  17. forumow
    forumow 25 May 2015 12: 39
    0
    Quote: Novel 1977
    there is one point, why release NEW T-90s, especially since of the 550 T-90 / T-90A units produced, 200 units are in storage. And this is not counting 1400 T-72B / BA units and 150 T-72B3 units (in addition, there are 7500 T-72, T-72A / B units in storage). Upgrade them, bring the T-72BZ to the level of the T-90. This can be done by RTZ without clogging the UVZ conveyor. And this article is a typical "order" from the "barons" of the defense industry complex

    +1
  18. Peacemaker
    Peacemaker 25 May 2015 15: 28
    +5
    Kind of weird. India in large quantities is armed with tons of 90, and Russia, bald, tons of 72 bz ... Looking at him, not proud, but want to sob.
    1. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 26 May 2015 13: 06
      0
      Quote: Peacemaker
      t 72 bz


      The last letter and number in the B3 index, for some reason, is associated as "toothless" or "defenseless", in short, you can't look without tears ... crying

      Since tanks are land cruisers, the song in the subject: