The development of a heavy ekranoplan of the ocean zone has begun.

In Russia, work has been resumed on the creation of large and heavy ekranoplanes. According to domestic media reports, a similar device is currently under construction with take-off weight at the level of 500 tons. Details of the project have not yet been disclosed, but it is already known that a promising machine can become the basis for various-purpose equipment designed to perform various tasks in the interests of military and civilian structures.

The development of the project of a promising ground-effect vehicle is engaged in the Central Design Bureau for hydrofoil vessels. R.E. Alekseeva (Central Clinical Hospital for SEC). Remarkable is the fact that the existence of a new project became known not from its developers, but from the management of a related organization. Georgy Antsev, the general director and general designer of the Morinformsystem-Agat concern, told us about the development of the new ground effect vehicle. In the future, the concern should take part in the creation of new modifications of promising technology.

According to G. Antsev, it is necessary to create ekranoplans capable of operating in the ocean zone. The take-off weight of such equipment should be at the level of 500 tons. Currently, the Nizhny Novgorod Central Design Bureau for the SEC is working in this direction. Now the specialists of the Central Design Bureau are carrying out a "reset of the Soviet period." Existing experience is being studied, certain research is being conducted, and the search for potential customers continues.

Details of the promising project remain unknown. From the words of G. Antsev, it follows that the development of such a machine is at its earliest stages. Specialists of the Central Design Bureau for the SEC have not even formed requirements for such equipment and therefore have not yet begun to develop technical documentation. Thus, it is too early to talk about any features of promising ekranoplanes.

Nevertheless, the director general of the Morinformsystem-Agat concern revealed some details of the cooperation between the two organizations. According to him, the Central Clinical Hospital for the SEC them. Alekseeva should develop and present a universal platform, on the basis of which equipment of a particular purpose can be built. Thus, the main goal of the Nizhny Novgorod designers can now be to study the prospects and create a basic version of a ground-effect vehicle, on the basis of which a special technique can be built, designed to perform certain works.

G. Antsev mentioned the possibility of creating modifications of a ground-effect vehicle designed for the Ministry of Defense, Frontier Service, the Federal Agency for Fishery, etc. Thus, a set of special equipment and, if necessary, weapons, corresponding to the intended tasks will be installed on the universal platform.

It is known that the concern "Morinformsystem-Agat" actively cooperates with the Central Design Bureau on the SEC them. Alekseeva. The concern develops, manufactures and supplies various electronic equipment: radar systems, control equipment, sonar systems, etc. Thus, the promising heavy wig of the ocean zone will be able to receive a large number of nodes created and released by the Morinformsystem-Agat concern and the enterprises included in it.

After a break of several decades in our country, interest in WIG reappears. This technique has several characteristic features that make it a unique means of solving certain problems. In this regard, various organizations regularly submit new ekranoplan projects for various purposes. In addition, there are even programs for the development of this field of technology.

At the end of October last year, a meeting of the expert council under the State Duma Committee on Industry was held. The event was attended by State Duma deputies, as well as representatives of the defense industry and various public organizations. One of the topics of the meeting was the proposed plan for the development and use of WIG, calculated to 2050 year. Details of this plan were not disclosed, but the meeting participants noted the importance of the proposed document and technology, the development of which it provides.

In addition, in August last year, a proposal appeared to use ekranoplans to solve one of the most pressing problems. So, the first deputy chairman of the State Duma Committee on Industry Vladimir Gutenev proposed the development of large ekranoplanes that can be used in civilian structures. Among other things, such a technique could solve the problem of communication with the Crimea. Flotilla ekranoplanes in the future may take on part of the freight and passenger traffic through the Kerch Strait, which will greatly simplify logistics and communication with the new subject of the federation.

The new project of heavy wig of the ocean zone, developed by the Central Design Bureau for the SEC them. Alekseeva, while in the very early stages. At the moment, probably not even defined the general features of the appearance of such a machine. For this reason, now representatives of the industry speak only about the approximate take-off weight, but do not name other characteristics of such an airplane.

News about the existence of some works on the subject of heavy ground effect vehicle are of great interest. At the same time, the lack of information is unlikely to keep specialists and interested public from trying to guess the appearance of such a machine. Indeed, the available information about domestic projects of ekranoplans, as well as data on the approximate mass of promising technology, allow us to make some assumptions.

In the mid-sixties under the leadership of R.E. Alekseeva was developed ekranoplan KM ("Ship-layout"). The construction of this machine was completed in 1966, after which its tests started. The maximum take-off weight of a ground-effect vehicle KM reached 544 t, which is slightly more than the weight of a promising vehicle, named G. Antsev. The CM had a length of 92 m and a wing span of 37,6 m. The mass of the empty machine was equal to 240 t. With the help of 10 turbojet VD-7 engines, the car reached a speed of up to 500 km / h. When flying at a height of no more than 10-14 m with a speed of 430 km / h, the practical range was 1500 km.

The dimensions and weight of a ground-winged vehicle CM make it possible to roughly imagine what a promising ocean zone machine can be. Naturally, an amendment should be made to the development of technology, in particular, to the difference in the characteristics of modern and outdated turbojet engines. Anyway, a promising WIG project with an take-off mass at the level of 500 t looks extremely bold and ambitious.

At present, preliminary work is underway to explore the possibilities and determine the approximate appearance of the promising heavy ekranoplan of the ocean zone. The deadlines for the completion of the preliminary work, as well as the time of the appearance of a full-fledged project, remain unknown. In addition, there is reason to doubt the very possibility of implementing such a bold project. Earlier in our country, attempts were made to build WIGs of various classes, but for the most part this technique has not left the test stage of prototypes.

For various reasons, both technical or technological, and economic in nature, all domestic projects of heavy ekranoplans have not gone beyond the testing stage. Some types of such equipment were built in small batches, but could not have a serious impact on the transportation and other areas where they were supposed to be used.

Now TsKB for SEC them. R.E. Alekseeva is making a new attempt to create a heavy ekranoplan capable of operating in the ocean zone. The timing of the creation of such a machine is unknown, the technical features of the project have not yet been determined or announced. Despite the lack of information, such news looks interesting and promising. It cannot be excluded that the program for the development of the construction of ekranoplans proposed last year in combination with some other projects will nevertheless open the way for promising technology.


On the materials of the sites:
http://ria.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://tass.ru/
http://airwar.ru/

Comments

[Imperialkolorad]

One word is handsome. As they say - a good technique should look beautiful.

[NEXUS]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

One word is handsome. As they say - a good technique should look beautiful.

for a long time it was necessary to resume these works, and not wait until the West begins to reduce the backlog in this matter.
A good and necessary "machine".

[vladkavkaz]

NEXUS
Who cares, here is the material.
http://razgromflota.ru/statya-25-istoriya-sozdaniya-i-konchiny-sovetskogo-ekrano
plana-lun /
And who is very interested here
http://ussr-kruto.ru/2013/01/29/ekranoplany-lun-i-orlenok-pokoriteli-vody/
And who is even more interested, answer your own question, we’ve been whining for three years in three pines of Russian quasicapitalism, but we CAN’t build what was done in the USSR. The system is probably rotten ...

[panfil]

In the distant nineties I read about these devices, the question was why they did not go into the series. On the one hand, they are very convenient for the military in that they fly at high speed almost 2 meters from the surface of the sea and therefore are not noticeable and can be a great danger to ships. However, their main problem is the extremely low economic efficiency. If 2 engines are enough for aircraft of similar sizes, then for an ekranoplan they require about eight. Accordingly, you need a lot of fuel, their operation is very expensive, unfortunately. This is probably the main reason why they did not go into the series. Although the devices were created chic.

[K-50]

Quote: panfil

On the one hand, they are very convenient for the military in that they fly at high speed almost 2 meters from the sea surface and therefore are hardly noticeable

They are hardly noticeable because the curtain of water dust dampens the radar signal very much when moving, the same effect with air cushion devices.

Quote: panfil

If 2 engines are enough for aircraft of similar sizes, then for an ekranoplan they require about eight.

Did you compare the load capacity?

[Throw]

It is not necessary to compare the carrying capacity, but the cost of transporting a ton of cargo.
If you take the limit, only for fuel, then in a conventional truck that goes on 7-10 thousands of meters, it is higher than that of EP in 5 meters. When ES is separated, the chandelier of the engines eats kerosene like a vacuum cleaner.
And if you calculate the full cost, with the service, special terminals for unloading and loading, which are not ...

[Nether Khan]

The ekranoplanes land perfectly on the water. There can be no criminal record of the terminals.

[Victor the Great]

What is the load capacity?
WIG, this is essentially a gain in load capacity, without loss of speed, but at the same time a huge territorial dependence on weather conditions, catastrophic fuel consumption (therefore, no one even plans to use such machines in theory in civilian life).
Do we need such cars? Personally, I doubt that I simply do not see the niche that they can occupy, while the means and efforts on them will go unreasonably.
...
[quote = K-50] [quote = panfil] the curtain of water dust dampens the radar signal very much when moving, the same effect with hovercraft. [/ quote]
What?
Does it bother you that ship locators can even detect low-flying planes and helicopters? Yes, their visibility may not be the same as that of aircraft carriers such as "nimits", but I would not count on their "stealth" either ...

[Shadowcat]

Pomoymu as "boats" of the coastal zone is even nothing. At least the poachers will definitely be kapets. After all, the patrol will "detain" only those who will catch up)

[Santa Fe]

Quote: ShadowCat

I can think of it as a "boat" of the coastal zone.

Helicopter?

[Renegade]

Quote: Victor the Great

... therefore no one even plans to use such machines in theory on a civilian ...

Representatives of the Chinese Civil Engineering University in Shanghai announced that they are completing the development of projects for several models of ekranoplanes. Pilot production of vehicles with a carrying capacity of 10 to 200 tons has already begun, and by 2017, more than 200 ekranoplanes capable of carrying goods weighing more than 400 tons will enter regular transport. Such ships will become an indispensable tool for high-speed passenger and cargo traffic between the islands of Southeast Asia.

[Nether Khan]

The ekranoplanes fly at the speed of an airplane, more economical than it, more load-bearing.
It’s easier to maintain, when the engines fail, they do not fall with a stone.
There are a lot of pluses, and in the series all sorts of Lysenkov legions did not go to the USSR.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Nether Khan

WIG flying at the speed of an airplane

Twice as slow

Quote: Nether Khan

more economical than him

8 Lunar engines vs 4 at An-124

Quote: Nether Khan

more lifting.

The weight of the best ekranoplanes was less than that of heavy transport aircraft of similar sizes

[Nether Khan]

In the USA, yes, but in the USSR it is just the opposite.
In the 90s, the Shtatovs pounced on the ekranoplan factory and bought documentation without specialists, although they were offered with specialists.
to the question of the deputy director.
Shozh you do, they also stick ekranoplanes like pies.
The director said after 50 years with our help, yes.
And now they have no brains.


So there is an ekranoplan fleet.

[Nether Khan]

Are you kidding me right? Wing craft have more cargo than comparable class aircraft, they are more economical than a plane and faster than a ship.

[xtur]

>> more economical than it
> 8 Lunya engines versus 4 for An-124

not all of these 8 engines operate after take-off, this is simply a consequence of the chosen model of take-off from the water. It can be done ekranoplan taking off from the runway, which will cost only marching engines.
And yes - the cost of Mriya is orders of magnitude greater than that of KM, given that KM was built without question and without tension somewhere in the 60s. Namely, the need to cover the cost of the main part of the operating costs of the aircraft, and not kerosene burned by engines

> The payload capacity of the best ekranoplanes was less than that of heavy transport aircraft of similar dimensions

built between the KM case in the 60s, it had a load-carrying capacity comparable to Mriya. This comparison is simply deadly for Mriya, built 20 years later with unlimited funding.
during the construction of the CM no one set out to build the maximum lifting capacity ekranoplan, it is impossible to judge which figure has a limited load capacity ekranoplan .

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Victor the Great

this is essentially a payload gain, without losing speed

How is it without loss?

The speed of any EC is 2 times lower than that of a transport aircraft of similar carrying capacity (An-22 / Il-76 / Ruslan)

And the flight range is three times less!

[Nether Khan]

Why is it so modest? Let's compare with the "1000 Years Falcon"? Or an underground boat.

In general, the payload capacity of the EC is 3 times higher, and they consume less fuel than an airplane of comparable classes, you are mistaken.

[Nether Khan]

So, without loss, the ekranoplan's carrying capacity is higher.
With a range, a range in general can be set to any.
For that matter, the ekranoplane and the calm will fly on electricity and will not lose in carrying capacity.

[xtur]

> The speed of any EC is 2 times lower than that of a transport aircraft of a similar payload (An-22 / Il-76 / Ruslan)

> And the flight range is three times less!

but how much ekranoplan cheaper than a similar-sized aircraft?

[Taoist]

Well, let's go. Landing ekranoplanes were built in series (although not enough). The shock Lun was to be built in series. But alas ... restructuring ... And the cars are very promising. I once dreamed of being transferred to serve them. And the engines ... actually, on the same Orlyonok there are three of them, despite the fact that two do not work in cruise flight mode. They are only needed to start. And cruising traction was provided by one turboprop NK12.

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Taoist

And the engines ... actually, on the same Orlyonok there are three of them, despite the fact that two do not work in cruise flight mode.

yes, they just fly with ballast

Quote: Taoist

And cruising traction was provided by one turboprop NK12.

from the strategic bomber Tu-95

when carrying capacity at the level of small An-12
at a flight speed 1,5 times lower than that of Antonov
and less than half the range

Quote: Taoist

And cars are very promising

Far more promising

[washi]

Quote: panfil

In the distant nineties I read about these devices, the question was why they did not go into the series.

And to which ministry should they be assigned? Sea or air transport? Development is promising, which means financing. So they did according to the principle: do not get to anyone, so as not to swear.

[S-cream]

There the biggest problem is the set of starting speed, i.e. separation from the surface to exit the screen. The graphs of the necessary power to speed have a characteristic hump at the beginning, but when it comes to the screen, it spends about a third of the power from that which is necessary for separation.
Recent developments of small (for 10-15 people) ekranoplanes partially solved this problem by combining ekranoplan with an air cushion, as well as rotary engines, which at the initial stage "blow" under the ekranoplan, and then turn to achieve maximum speed.

[Портал]

Quote: panfil

On the one hand, they are very convenient for the military in that they fly at high speed almost 2 meters from the sea surface and therefore little noticeable and can be very dangerous for ships.

The ancestor of such ekranolyts was created in the 60s and tested in the Caspian Sea. Amerami, from space, was immediately spotted and determined that the aircraft was flying very low above the water. In view of its bulkiness, the Americans nicknamed him "The Caspian Monster"

The article and the comments do not indicate the main drawback of such ekranoletov. They are only functional when calm or when there are ripples in the water. With waves, it seems a meter, their operation is impossible, not to mention stormy weather. That is why the ekranolet was tested in the Caspian Sea where sea unrest is much less than in open seas and oceans.

[Shadowcat]

Quote: Portal

The article and the comments do not indicate the main drawback of such ekranoletov. They are only functional when calm or when there are ripples in the water. With waves, it seems a meter, their operation is impossible, not to mention stormy weather. That is why the ekranolet was tested in the Caspian Sea where sea unrest is much less than in open seas and oceans.

Maybe. But once the idea that it is possible to fly like a bird, swim underwater like a fish seemed heresy. After it seemed like heresy an all-metal plane ... Well, etc. Explore and explore again.

PS
1. According to the analysis of the Americans, the construction of the CER did not have any economic and industrial value. Needless to say, the CER helped at least somehow defend the Far East from Japanese aggression and gave impetus to the Far Eastern industry?
2. The DBC is considered unpromising, ineffective in terms of security and easily traceable. But at the same time, he is asked to withdraw under the SAL agreement. Question - Why if he so milks the economy and is easy to track?
3. Shuttles are better than rockets. Needless to say, the number of shuttle / rocket launches is flying now?
4. WIG is not promising ....
That’s worth thinking about.

[Портал]

Quote: ShadowCat

WIG is not promising ....
That’s worth thinking about.

And what a heap. I mean, the prospect of ekranoletov depends on eliminating the lack of inability to operate in any weather.

[Ing40]

There was infa that the Caspian monster could rise to a height of more than 15 m. Google film on YouTube.

[Shadowcat]

You yourself learn the materiel! Comrade Daos has already explained that there is no shortage as such. Moreover, considering from a military point of view, not a single vessel with an excitement of more than three points does not land.

[Nether Khan]

And it is quietly operated in any weather, for it there is no non-flying weather except a storm.

[Taoist]

You confuse ekranoplanes with KVP ... The ekranoplan is just almost insensitive to excitement. The operating altitude for large ekranoplanes is 6-10 meters. well, a very strong storm is needed ... And the ekranoplanes do not have any "skirts" or other fences that contact the surface to prevent air leakage from the cushion. In the Caspian Sea, these ships were siphoned solely for reasons of logistics (they were delivered from Nizhny Novgorod by floating docks) and secrecy (there is less chance of running into a "foreigner") ... By the way, the ekranoplan (unlike an ekranoplan) is also capable of an "airplane" mode - which allows even more expand the geography of its actions.

An ekranoplan is essentially a KVP with a so-called "dynamic air cushion" - which allows them to be faster and more economical than any KVP - no one refuses KVP?

[tlauicol]

HOW will the "wave-insensitive" ekranoplan take off in a storm?

[Taoist]

Just like any similar ship with certain limitations ... Flying boats are surprising nobody - and their strength is lower and the wing is much more vulnerable.
For Orlyonok, for example, a take-off is registered in the RLE when waves are up to 2x meters.

[tlauicol]

2 meters is not a storm, but a seaplane and will take off from the strip. since he, EP, will take off? will wait by the sea for weather?

[Nether Khan]

Silently, like all seaplanes against the wind, perpendicular to the wave, how he would fly up a storm on his drum.

[Портал]

Quote: Taoist

You confuse ekranoplans with KVP ...

Thank. Explained. I'll know.

[Nether Khan]

He doesn’t care about the excitement, he calmly flies over the waves.

[Nether Khan]

Tales do not need fuel, they consumed almost half the size of an airplane.

[Astrey]

Quote: vladkavkaz

The system is probably rotten ...

On the whole planet like that. Nobody but Russia ...
And very vain, but a pity

[AzBooks]

Quote: vladkavkaz

, 30 years weaving in the three pines of Russian quasicapitalism, and we CAN’t build what was done in the USSR

So.
Actually, I would start not with an ocean ekranoplan, but with hydrofoil ships (also by the way the topic of the Design Bureau of Rostislav Alekseev) and restore passenger navigation on the Volga. An ekranoplan with a capacity of up to 200 passengers could make this passenger line (and there are enough millionaire cities and their satellites on the Volga) year-round.

[Nether Khan]

The sir of the USSR was a super-rich powerful country with a prohibitive economy.
Do not compare with the Russian Federation.

[Astrey]

Quote: NEXUS

It is high time

I agree!

[Bayonet]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

One word is handsome. As they say - a good technique should look beautiful.

Handsome, only this is not at all what the article is about - the apparatus is made of lungs and does not pull at "500 tons".

[Throw]

This is just an image
A lot of plans:

One of the topics of the meeting was the proposed plan for the development and use of ekranoplans, calculated before the 2050 of the year. The details of this plan were not disclosed, but the participants in the meeting noted the importance of the proposed document and equipment, the development of which it provides.

.. this, unfortunately, my friends, in Russian is called "drink ... delhi, parted" and "on the back burner" ..

[vladkavkaz]

Lance (3
What are you doing here specifically for the category of RFP.
And the reality is
http://www.rusnauka.com/28_PRNT_2011/Economics/6_94158.doc.htm

[Throw]

Did you understand something by reference with pseudo-crap?
There is a clear ECLANOPHILIA against the background of inhibition of brain functions

[vladkavkaz]

Throw
If you have problems with intelligence, then these are your problems. If yours is a suppression of thought processes that do not allow at least something to be understood, then what are you talking about?

[sub307]

I really hope that it turns out ....

[Civil]

Do we have commercially available turboprop engines for 500 tons of mass?

[Koshak]

Quote: Civil

Do we have commercially available turboprop engines for 500 tons of mass?

The "KM" and "Lun" were equipped with turbojet engines. On "KM" there were 10 pieces of RD-7, on "Luna" - 8 pieces of NK-87. Serial motors.

[Motherland Russia]

Not always...
The Americans had "handsome men", but they were not very effective.

[SERGEY UI]

Caspian monster version 2.0

[Wedmak]

Among other things, such a technique could solve the problem of communication with the Crimea. In the future, the ekranoplanes flotilla may take on part of the freight and passenger traffic through the Kerch Strait, which will greatly simplify logistics and communication with the new subject of the federation.

There the ferry goes about an hour. Strait in the widest place no more than 20 km. Even if you go from the Taman Bay, from the farthest edge, there will be no more than 40 km. What is ekranoplan to do there? He will not even have time to really accelerate. In the next news, hydrofoil ships are under construction. Here they will be just right.
But freight, on the roads to 1000-1500 km just right. Even in the summer, server delivery is quite suitable in the summer, due to the speed of delivery, you can make many flights. And ice doesn’t care for him.
True, the scope will depend on the characteristics of the new ship.

[tlauicol]

he with such har-mi from Murmansk to Dikson will not even reach. Pevek-Tiksi too. easier "Flying Island" to build. or read. And in settlements, the helicopter will work better on trifles.

[Rostislav]

Is it really so difficult to equip several jump airports / refueling points on the route?

[tlauicol]

cost will increase, efficiency will fall! and then, you agree to sit on a bump in the mosquito net, wait for the flight and by the sea weather at such a gas station? if so, for what money?

[Throw]

Small ekranoplanes also work well.
With heavy questions, why are they needed ..

[maai]

What are you speaking about? What are the characteristics !? The article gives the parameters of the first car in 1966. Already, materials and engines have gone far ahead.

In the mid-sixties under the direction of R.E. Alekseeva was developed KM ekranoplan ("Ship-model"). The construction of this machine was completed in 1966, after which her trials began. Maximum take-off weight of KM ekranoplan reached 544 tons, which is slightly more than the weight of a promising machine, called G. Antsev. KM had a length of 92 m and a wing span of 37,6 m. The mass of an empty car was 240 tons. Using 10 turbojet engines VD-7, the car developed a speed of up to 500 km / h. When flying at an altitude of not more than 10-14 m at a speed of 430 km / h, the practical range was 1500 km.

Otherwise, the article again says it all:

Details promising project remains unknown. From the words of G. Antsev it follows that development such a machine is in the earliest stages. Specialists of the Central Design Bureau in SEC have not even formed requirements for such a technique and therefore, have not yet begun to develop technical documentation. Thus, it’s too early to talk about any features.

[Vladimir.]

Ehh .... They would have installed anti-missile systems on him (automatic machine guns) and equipped them with cruise missiles! There would have been a beast!
The combat ekranoplans, along with the convertoplanes, is the future.

[scientist]

Let's hope that the designers will figure out how to make an ekranoplan from carbon fiber reinforced plastic and radio-absorbing coatings. Against such "Stealth" technology at sea, and even with such speeds and at extremely low altitudes, no AUG can resist.
For example, the maximum detection range of the Aegis type air defense system at an altitude of up to 50m is not more than 30-35 km. Thus, the ekranoplan’s time in the visibility zone will be no more than 4 minutes even without taking special measures to reduce visibility, electronic countermeasures and with the optimal approach parameter. The enemy, of course, will be able to raise AWACS aircraft, but the ekranoplan has the same speed as the AWACS, so it will be easy to avoid their detection zones.

[vladkavkaz]

scientist
What is standing in Kaspiysk armed with missiles, according to those who flew and serviced it, was guaranteed to drown the AUG, if the group used at least three cars.
And for the fact that we have not had such machines for 30 years, it would be worth asking the Yeltsin gang and the liberal gangster to ask the full extent of the Criminal Code.
And for designers and testers - Success and speedy commissioning of these machines at a new technological level and armament.

[Throw]

The same task for the AUG was then performed by the TU-22 / Kh-22 complex. Moreover, unlike Lunya, it is many times faster and further. And this was well understood in the Ministry of Defense, so one of a series of 8 cars was built. Even before Yeltsin ...

[scientist]

Quote: Lance

The TU-22 / X-22 complex then performed the same task on AUG

EPR TU-22 is more than 20 square meters and the flight is carried out at medium and high altitudes, where the detection range of air defense systems is more than 600 km. Even with supersonic speed, it is an ideal target for any medium and long-range missiles. Therefore, the armament of the TU-22 is appropriate, with a launch range far from areas of possible interception, it also needs to be deployed (turning radius at a speed of 2M at least 300 km). Further, the combat mission falls on missile guidance systems, which are practically defenseless against air defense and enemy aircraft.

Quote: Lance

it was perfectly understood in the Moscow Region, so one was built from a series of 8 cars. Even before Yeltsin.

If before Yeltsin they understood at least something, they would not have got involved in adventurous projects like Buran and Star Wars, and the Union would not have collapsed. At that time, together with the country, all breakthrough projects were destroyed and discredited along with scientists.

[alex86]

Quote: scientist

(turning radius at a speed of 2M as a minimum of 300 km)

If for the Tu-22M3, then let me disagree - the sources call the empirical formula R = V / 100-4 (km) with a roll of 60 degrees - from here comes 20 km. By the correct formula, R = V2 / g * tg B, i.e. R = 435 / 000 * 9,81 = 1,73 m (for 25M and roll 666 degrees). Close to empirical, but not 2 km. Sorry...

[Throw]

300 km is obvious nonsense, but the "sources" write the formula for something else: no bomber will be deployed at supersonic with a roll of 60 degrees - the glider will fall apart. It will gain altitude with a loss of speed, extinguish for subsonic sound, turn around, pick up NW at the peak and knock it out of the launch zone.

[alex86]

That is, no 300 km, which I wanted to emphasize - all these conversations that the territory of Georgia was not enough to turn around, have nothing to do with reality. It will fall apart - "not Copenhagen", but the maximum operating overload is 2,5; overload with a flight weight of 98 tons and a roll of 65 degrees - 2,0; maximum permissible overload 6,0. I would ask in practice how in reality ...

[maai]

Quote: Lance

The same task for AUG was then performed by the TU-22 / Kh-22 complex. Moreover, unlike Lunya, it is many times faster and further. And this was well understood in the Ministry of Defense, so one of a series of 8 cars was built.

You are comparing the incomparable! Why do you compare with airplanes, but you need to compare with the ships! In the context of modern combat, no ship can quickly appear on the horizon, give a salvo and leave.
In addition, in addition to military tasks, there are many civilian ones. Which, by the way, in the conditions of impassability, mudslides and our Russian distances, are just the same solved by heavy ekranoplans.

[Throw]

And that ekranoplanes in combat mode shoot down torpedoes like ships? Can even compare with submarines?
Or compare the "Eaglet" with a bus - that is, wheels!


I, unlike ministerial officials and some, do not suffer from a split of opinions, so I think that if something has wings, has stabilizers, eats kerosene, flies and looks like an airplane, then this, damn it, PLANE! The fact that he has a sealed belly with redan and an elongated chord of the wing to use the screen effect does not change the essence.
And "to appear quickly" from 500 km / h is not fast. This is so, neither fish nor meat ..

And what civic tasks are being solved by the EP in "muddy conditions"? Smooth on paper, but in the real world of Russia there are ravines, as well as forests, power lines, poles and buildings.
How will you fix the route for the EP, anti-submarine zigzugs? Or does he leave the screen every 10 km? What are the "distances" with such "savings" ...

Also, in response to the scientist kament above:
If the 22nd has 20 sq.m., can you imagine the EPR "Lunya" ?!
Since the 70’s Hokai AUGs have radars with the ability to detect targets on the underlying surface, and the EP we have come from which year?
As a result, the EP was detected when it was still like a crab before the launch zone of the Mosquitoes, so it had to be covered so that it somehow "broke through" the air defense. Supersonic Carcasses did not need to be covered then. Hence the question - why the heck goat button accordion.

In general, so as not to get up twice :) - I have set out all these things on heavy EP in the article and comments here: http://topwar.ru/61735-globus-s-ekrannym-effektom.html

[tlauicol]

I am sure that there will be hundreds of volunteers on the forum who will cut down millions of GA forests and equalize thousands of kilometers of mountains and hills for the sake of the Northern delivery by freight EP :))

[Throw]

At the same time, mountains will be poured in the Rostov region

[vladkavkaz]

Of course, it’s fun to talk about hills and ravines, but the great, without exaggeration, minds of the country, like wanting to spit on your laughs and did, do what you don’t have in mind and ability
http://warspot.ru/2356-9-etapov-razvitiya-ekranoplanov
Only this time, dispense with a wry smile; the same Bartini car also flew, so it’s your hills, absolutely not a hindrance.
And judging by such screams as you and the couple here crying about the uselessness of this class (classes) of cars, you don’t need a damn thing to do anything in Russia.

[Throw]

Oh, another jingo-techno-patriot has missed out on what’s there for someone with intelligence and ability. It’s not Senka’s hat to decide, especially, judging by the phrase about Bartini’s car, they didn’t enter the topic.

You don't like giggles - put a minus or in an emergency, and do not be nervous, otherwise you will wipe the "stripes" on the sofa

And on the projection theme "you don't need a damn thing to do something in Russia" already answered: http://topwar.ru/61735-globus-s-ekrannym-effektom.html#comment-id-3577101

[vladkavkaz]

Lance (3
And you, as is clear from your cries, from the category of all-propropanosept.alipolymers?
So your cries are of little interest to me.
At the same time, change the flag to yusovsky, it is closer to you than the Soviet one.
It is already available
http://www.aex.ru/docs/3/2010/10/31/1202/print/
There will be more, even yell here until blue.

[Throw]

Your cardboard attacks are also of little interest to me. There are no arguments on the topic - go to the censor with a bang-polymers))

[vladkavkaz]

Throw
You have no arguments; there is simply no-nonsense.
And why exactly nonsense and not knowledge, everything is spelled out here.
So keep quiet for a couple with tlauikol, it’s direct from you, to a stranger ...
http://riverforum.net/showthread.php?t=1545

[Throw]

In addition to links, I’m not able to write anything on the topic - keep quiet yourself in a rag, otherwise it’s already stupid

[Santa Fe]

Quote: Tlauicol

I am sure that there will be hundreds of volunteers on the forum who will cut down millions of GA forests and equalize thousands of kilometers of mountains and hills for the sake of the Northern delivery of cargo EP

[scientist]

Quote: Lance

As a result, the EP was detected when it was still like a crab before the launch zone of the Mosquitoes, so it had to be covered so that it somehow "broke through" the air defense.

The launch range of Mosquito is up to 120 km along a low-altitude trajectory and 250 km with a high-altitude flight profile. Substitute the detection range equation taking into account the curvature of the Earth and you will get that the ES must fly at a height of at least 1 km. But ES do not fly like that. Yes, Hokai is really capable of detecting targets against the background of the underlying surface at a distance of 200 - 300 km, depending on weather conditions and if it is capable of taking off. But for ordinary planes at medium and high altitudes, these ranges are 2 times greater! So, according to your logic, they are even more incapable of using anti-ship missiles.
In addition, as I have already said, ET is much easier to make using low visibility technologies than a 5th generation aircraft, especially since the requirements for permittivity against the background of sea water are much lower than in airspace. In principle, they are now doing so, of wood and plastic. So far, only engines have reflective power.
One can only guess why you are such an ardent opponent of the combat use of electronic signature.

[Throw]

After it is written that fighting 500 ton fools, dragging 6 anti-ship missiles and withstanding landing on water at 6 points, do "made of wood and plastic"... I think it makes no sense to explain the difference between the performance characteristics of the strike complexes of a subsonic low-altitude rocket launcher and a "conventional" supersonic rocket launcher with a launch range three times longer than an almost hypersonic missile. And the DIFFERENCE in the DIFFICULTY of defeat by AUG aviation of both.
You, sorry, some kind of humanitarian scientist or something?

And do not hang labels "opponents" and other nonsense. Read the link above for better.

[vkl-47]

I think there will be another modification of this machine. It is possible with anti-submarine weapons. But most likely it will remain a landing truck

[avt]

Quote: vkl-47

I think there will be another modification of this machine. It is possible with anti-submarine weapons. But most likely it will remain a landing truck

Amer wanted to trawl from them.

Quote: Fantazer911

Actually, there was a conversation that the ekranoplans would not be put on the wing due to their high cost and non-identifiability,

Well, since the beginning of perestroika, not only ekranoplanes - we all, together with the country, at the Gaidarovs' Witnesses' who worship the Holy Inquisition and the All-Regulating Market 'were ineffective, which did not prevent them from enriching themselves due to this very' inefficiency 'rather effectively. artificially and effectively slowed down the topic, and it seemed that our victory "- but no! We live!

[Fantazer911]

Actually, there was a conversation that the ekranoplans would not be put on the wing because of their high cost and non-identifiability, and here the projects are already ready, that is, they are already ready to start designing and putting on the wing, as everything is veiled !? then we don’t need an aircraft carrier, then we already need it, then we don’t need Mistral or we can take them, everything is really covert.

[krpmlws]

Quote: Fantazer911

Ie they are already ready to start designing and putting on the wing, as if everything is veiled !? we don’t need an aircraft carrier

Our country is so full of paradoxes and contradictions. We supposedly do not need aircraft carriers, but dubious monsters ekranoplans, please.

[vladkavkaz]

krpmlws
Doubtful ???
The performance characteristics of the Lun rocket are astounding. The length of the “Moon” is 74 m, the height is 19,2 m. With full refueling, the ekranoplan could cover a distance of 2000 km. With a wingspan of 44 mcranoplan can move above the surface at an altitude of 1-5 ms with a speed of up to 500 km / h. So, the distance from Sevastopol to Istanbul ekranoplan "Lun" is able to overcome in an hour. At the same time, even a strong unrest is not afraid of the ekranoplane. Its seaworthiness is estimated at 5-6 points. The movement is provided by 8 turbojet engines. They are quite enough to provide a war winged vehicle weighing 30,5 tons with a separation from the surface of the water and flight above it.
In NATO, the military ekranoplan "Lun" immediately earned the nickname "Aircraft Carrier Fighter." And not in vain. The ekranoplan carried 6 Moskit guided missiles on its hump and could easily sink a huge aircraft carrier. At the same time, it was impossible to detect the Lun with the help of the radar facilities that existed at that time. The car moved at great speed literally above the surface of the water. So not only radars began to “smoke”, torpedoes and minefields were powerless against combat ekranoplanes.

[opus]

Quote: vladkavkaz

At the same time, even a strong unrest is not afraid of the ekranoplane.

controversy

Quote: vladkavkaz

move above the surface at the height of 1-5 mso speed up to 500 km / h.

Seaworthiness of EP "harrier" - 5-6 points

7 Points - Strong
The sea is covered with white foamy ridges, which from time to time are torn off by the wind from the surface of the water. The height of the waves reaches 5,5 meters, the average height is 4,7 meters. Wind speed 13,9 - 17,1 m / s. Middle tree trunks swing, twigs bend.

8 points - very strong
Strong waves, foam on each crest. The height of the waves reaches 7,5 meters, the average height is 5,5 meters. Wind speed 17,2 - 20 m / s. It is difficult to go against the wind, it is almost impossible to talk. Thin branches of trees break.

9 Points - Storm
High waves at sea, reaching 10 meters; average height 7 meters. Wind speed 20,8 - 24,4 m / s. Big trees bend, medium branches break. The wind tears off a poorly fortified roof covering.
well and so on

Quote: vladkavkaz

The performance characteristics of the Lun rocket are astounding. The length of the “Moon” is 74 m, the height is 19,2 m.

+

Quote: vladkavkaz

8 turbojet engines provide navigation.

EPR is even more striking (19,2m + 5 m above the surface) + IR trace.
you can’t confuse such a goal with anything
+ trace for ECO incl. and kr

"at the same time, it was not possible to detect the ekranoplan with the help of modern available radar equipment ..."- Nonsense of the author

Quote: vladkavkaz

. So not only radars began to “smoke”

poor fellow radars, how do they cope with low-altitude anti-ship missiles (speeds from 870km / h) and with supersonic aircraft (up to 1,1M reaching the line of attack on the WWII)?
Probably not that "smoke" - they melt.
But yak.
here the ekranoplan above the destroyer with an EPR near 4000m2 + such a sweet Ik background, but a trace for the ECO, at a speed of 500km / h против RCC / LA with ESR 10-15 m2 at a speed of 900 -1200km / h ... you can go crazy

Quote: vladkavkaz

In NATO, the military ekranoplan "Lun" immediately received the nickname "Aircraft Carrier Fighter"

This is our invented.
And the T-4 was also called Russia's 'aircraft carrier killer' Varyag

[opus]

Quote: vladkavkaz

carried the Mosquito guided missiles on its hump 6 and could easily sink a huge aircraft carrier

As I understand it, after a volley by all mosquitoes, all of the 8 (or how many marching there are there) of the NK-87 turbojet engines can be thrown out, it is unlikely to reach the base

/ I remind you: Americans after each combat use 30-mm (50gr pulley, it seems) of the GAU-8 / A seven-barreled gun on the A-10 Thunderbolt II they CLEAN (in spite of pleasant other tricky measures) General Electric TF34-GE-100 turbojet engines,and here is the 10 meter 4 x ton bun with thrust at the start under 9tn (and the corresponding exhaust of the combustion products of PU and / or marshevik)

On 5 of October and 21 of December 1984, two launches were carried out layouts Mosquito equipped only starting engines.

After the first start, 9 tiles were damaged, after the second start - 2.

[Wedmak]

poor fellow radars, how do they cope with low-altitude anti-ship missiles (speeds from 870km / h) and with supersonic aircraft (up to 1,1M reaching the line of attack on the WWII)?

Radars can do it, but the means of destruction are not always the case. It is very, very difficult to bring down supersonic anti-ship missiles in the final section. Aircraft are good targets only because hitting a missile defense destroys their structure. Too it is not reliable to external influences. The ekranoplane, not only goes at an altitude of 3-5 meters above the waves, at a speed of 500 km / h and you still have to manage to get into it, it also has very impressive dimensions. Because of which small missiles with fragmentation warheads will not cause him special harm.

If you recall how not the largest Eaglet was tested:

In 1975, during the tests, the ekranoplan was planted on stones. Then the pilot turned on the airflow, and the car went into the water, took off and reached the base without incident. But the landing on the stones did not pass without a trace. The body of the pre-production "Eaglet" was made of K482T1 alloy - hard, strong, but fragile. Apparently, the blows against the stones damaged the hull, cracks appeared in the stern, which were not noticed during external examination. The next tests were carried out in rough seas. During takeoff from the water, from the impact of the damaged hull on the crest of the wave, the stern, together with the tail and the main engine, simply fell off. The pilots threw off the throttle of the bow engines in surprise. R.Elekseev, who was also sitting in the pilot's cockpit (the Chief Designer was personally present at almost all tests), was not at a loss, took control. He brought the bow thrusters to cruise mode, did not allow the ekranoplan to completely submerge in the water (and then the ship would inevitably sink - there is no stern), brought the Orlyonok to planing (!) And brought it to the coast himself. The people sitting in the ship got off with fright, but for Rostislav Evgenievich himself, this accident had much more serious consequences.

[vladkavkaz]

opus
An ekranoplan, not a ship, your wave crests are indifferent to it, but the wind force is slightly different, and proceed from this without writing out a pretzel.
It is your active rejection with a scream that strikes, but I would really like to see the trail after it, at a height of 10 m, someone is seeing something there. If you consider that cruise missiles on a low trajectory are difficult to see?
And for what demon ekranoplan to enter the affected area? Is it hard to think?
After the combat launch, you throw everything out, you yourself came up with, or who suggested?
Something test. And equally what they said those who flew on it, your nonsense does not confirm.
Experimental launches and experimental ones to take into account all cases when applied .. and here Amer’s thirty as an example .. magician however ..

[vladkavkaz]

Meanwhile

Meanwhile, Phantom Works' secret design unit at Boeing is developing a huge ekranolet under the code name “Pelican”. It is intended for the movement of large military contingents during overseas operations. Since the ships are too slow, and even the largest transport planes are too small. Today, one division may have more than 300 seventy-ton Abrams tanks, but even the huge C-5 Galaxy transporter (C-5 Galaxy, 126 in the US Navy) can take on board only two of these tanks. It is assumed that the Pelican will weigh as much (takeoff weight - 3000 tons) as seven fully loaded Boeing 747s, and at the same time it will be able to glide above the water and will be able to fly at a distance of 16 thousand km. Moreover, it is planned that this ekranolet will fly not only above the water, but also at the usual heights for aircraft. Well, he can land on airfields (in the project, the car is equipped with 76 wheels).

[Bayonet]

Quote: vladkavkaz

A huge ekranolet under the code name "Pelican" is being developed.

The Pelican project is a dead issue. After the first characteristics of the miracle ship were unveiled, in 2003 the Boeing leadership dispersed the “initiative group” of ekranoplan fans, and the Boeing Phantom Works research unit switched to developing the concept of the sixth generation fighter.

[vladkavkaz]

In December 2014, the Ministry of Industry and Trade signed a contract with LLC "Ekranoplanostroitelnoe association" ORION "for the implementation of the R&D project" Creation of an experimental model of a search and rescue high-speed amphibious ship-ekranoplan type "B" materials for search and rescue support in ice conditions of the Far North »Code" Sterkh-PSE ".

The ministry justified the need to develop such a technique:

In recent years, the intensive economic and social development of the Russian Federation, especially the regions located in the Far North, Siberia and the Far East, the development of the resource base of the Arctic zone, and the intensification of the use of the Northern Sea Route have made a number of transport complex problems obvious. There is a significant deficit in the capacity of transport corridors created in the inland water and marine areas in these regions. One of the constraining factors for the development of the transport complex, offshore development, fundamental and applied scientific research, especially in winter conditions, is the difficulty in implementing reliable and timely search and rescue support in ice conditions.
At the same time, the presence and growth of transport and infrastructure problems hinder the economic opportunities of the regions and significantly limit the pace of their development.
To solve these problems, it seems promising to use a new vehicle - a WIG type “B” catamaran scheme with a “composite wing”, which combines the high-speed qualities of an aircraft with seaworthiness and carrying capacity of traditional vessels and vessels with dynamic maintenance principles, with the possibility of all-weather operation day and night .
Creating a modern ekranoplane, and especially capable of operating in ice conditions, in conditions of high icing and low temperatures, high wind loads, low light, an undeveloped system of navigation, hydrometeorological and glaciological support is a complex integrated innovation project that focuses on the problems of materials science, engine building, aerohydrodynamics , instrument making, etc. Additional requirements for the design and equipment are presented by the target, search and rescue mission of the ekranoplan.
At the same time, it is advisable to use layout and structural solutions, structural materials and technologies for the manufacture of ekranoplan designs, including materials based on carbon fiber reinforced plastics, which are increasingly developed and applied in the world shipbuilding and aircraft industry, as well as requirements for stability and controllability, simulation results on simulation stand, on an integrated stand, obtained in R&D: “Clipper-50”, “Volga”, “Carbon”, “Sterkh-10”, “Stability” and “Clipper-KP”.
The proposed CSR will allow us to create an experimental model of a search and rescue high-speed amphibious ekranoplan ship (hereinafter - EE PSE) of type “B” catamaran scheme with a “composite wing”, on which a set of issues of using ekranoplan equipment for search and rescue support and emergency operations in ice conditions of the Far North.

[vladkavkaz]

The customer also indicates that as part of an integrated power plant it is necessary to provide for the use of domestic engines of the type TV7-117CM, TVD-10B (-M), TVD-20-01, TVD-1500, VK-2500.
Among other things, the ekranoplan must be equipped with:

- high-precision modern navigation and flight equipment;
- special airborne equipment providing safe operation and solving the problems of searching for those in distress;
- reliable communication system;
- a complex of rescue equipment, first aid equipment and other necessary equipment based on the modular principle of acquisition;
- small stroke engines;
- high-resolution radar and optoelectronic systems;
- control damping system;
- developed light-signaling equipment with a search headlight.

The deadline is October 25, 2016. The cost is 134 million rubles.
So, screaming, yelling and screaming, they say this technique is not needed, at idle, it must have the right to exist, regardless of your rejection of this class of technology.

[Magarych]

not really lived. The year 88-89, after publication in TM, the models themselves were built. At least once a ride.

[Sargard A.]

Do you have any problems?

[Sanny]

There are a bunch of projects, where are the results? Where is the serial production? To pump up billions again and to declare "unpromising niche product"?

[Engineer]

Quote: Sanny

There are a bunch of projects, where are the results? Where is the serial production? To pump up billions again and to declare "unpromising niche product"?

CDB Alekseeva develops its own "projects" at its own expense! So it's not for you to count them in the billions!

[Gromm]

Why so slow then? The commies were good guys, they didn’t grind to nothing. They did the business. And the current ones have loot in the palaces in London, but there’s the net, the infamies.

[0255]

Quote: Gromm

Why so slow then? The commies were good guys, they didn’t grind to nothing. They did the business. And the current ones have loot in the palaces in London, but there’s the net, the infamies.

In the eighties, the commies destroyed the USSR, in the nineties they became liberals and democrats, abandoning Marxism-Leninism and the Great Country at the same time. The ex-president of Ukraine Yushchenko, who accused the USSR of everything, was a communist in the Ukrainian SSR, a former acting President Turchinov also managed to stay in the Communist Party from 1990 to 1991. Lithuanian President Gribskunaite was a Komsomol activist in the Lithuanian SSR, she clearly kept her Russophobia. Do not think that every communist is automatically an honest person.

[Concealer]

A heavy ekranoplan is, first of all, a large landing ship. And here he has no equal. But this is a "long" project, albeit tempting with the possibility of delivering troops to anywhere in the world. Alternative to PAK TA.
But there is another possibility much more interesting in the technology of ekranoplanes. Why not create a small and light winged craft, and not equip it with a vertical landing and take-off system? Then technology will not be priced.
And for military purposes, in general, an irreplaceable thing.

[vladkavkaz]

Concealer
Research in the past showed the possibility of creating a machine capable of transporting one landing force to an infantry battalion and a company of tanks at a time.

[bmv04636]

It’s interesting if, for an ekranoplan, make a marine carrier, who will win the confrontation is an aircraft carrier warrant or an ekranoplan order. As I understand the armament and combat radius of ekranoplanes is higher than that of carrier-based aircraft.

[PROXOR]

Quote: bmv04636

It’s interesting if, for an ekranoplan, make a marine carrier, who will win the confrontation is an aircraft carrier warrant or an ekranoplan order.

This option existed. Project Lun. 6 anti-ship missiles on board.

Quote: bmv04636

As I understand the armament and combat radius of ekranoplanes is higher than that of carrier-based aircraft.

Invalid comparison. Deck aviation, although it has a wide range of capabilities, but has a very specific purpose. Cover ships from the air. Destroyers and cruisers. Which in turn are equipped with anti-ship missiles and Tomahawk-type land-to-ground missiles. The combat ekranoplan is precisely offensive weapons. They are comparable for AUG as torpedo boats for convoys. Their task will quickly approach the distance of the rocket launch and just as quickly get away from the retaliatory strike. The presence of such vehicles at least in the Pacific Fleet as a minimum of 20 vehicles, very specifically sober up Matrasnikov. The name is a combat radius of 900 km and we add 300 km of flight. Onyx we have 1200 km of the restricted area for AUGs from our shores.

PySy: if you place them in Tartus, Vietnam, Nicaragua and Cuba. The area of ​​action of AUGs will sharply decrease. The Mediterranean Sea will be banned for them and the 6th fleet of the US Navy will be disbanded))))

[Svetlana]

An amphibious vertical take-off seaplane can be made in the form of a flying saucer with a diameter of 50 m. A nacelle with a cockpit, two turbojet engines (turbojet engines), fuel tanks, and payload is fixed in the center of the saucer disk on an annular bearing with the possibility of free rotation around a vertical axis. equipped with rotary nozzles in order to redirect the exhaust through annular gas ducts and tangential nozzles into the skirt of the air cushion. To lift the seaplane above the start point, aerodynamic lifting force is provided along its perimeter with an annular blade crown of blades - biplane-type wings. The disk-shaped shell of the seaplane is untwisted by the reactive force of the exhaust from the tangential nozzles. The exhaust of the turbojet engine during takeoff is directed under the skirt of the airbag. During the flight with the auxiliary electric drive, the nacelle is rotated in the opposite direction with respect to the direction of rotation of the disk plate casing, so the nacelle remains stationary.
Start can be carried out both from the earth, and from water. The start can be vertical or using a short take-off scheme, when after rising to a height of an air cushion (0,5 m), the turbofan nozzles are deployed and part of their exhaust is directed to create horizontal thrust. The rest of the exhaust turbofan is used to create an air cushion and spin the disk of the plate shell. The blades of the annular scapular rim around the perimeter of the seaplane disk can be made rotary or retracted into the seaplane disk body after take-off.
See also http://topwar.ru/index.php?do=lastcomments&userid=55373

[K-50]

Quote: Svetlana

A nacelle with a cockpit, two turbojet engines (turbojet engines), fuel tanks, payload - is fixed in the center of the disk plate on a ring bearing with the possibility of free rotation around a vertical axis.

And if the bearing wedges?
That's the merry-go-round.
Something must be wrong, simpler. There is no need to untwist the huge skirt design with a big sail. IMHO

[Svetlana]

In a seaplane, a nozzle method of forming an air cushion is used when a mixture of air with exhaust gases pumped by a fan of a double-circuit turbojet engine is fed under the bottom through nozzles tilted inward and located tangentially along its edges. The exhaust of the tangentially located nozzles creates a moment of forces that untwist the disk with the shoulder blade. The rubberized fabric skirt, which has a large sail, (for example, in the amphibious assault landing ship on the Zubr project 12322) is not used in this device. The design is similar to the carriage of the Sapsan train, which has established itself as a very reliable unit. A Maglev bullet train carriage can also be used as the ring bearing. http://www.computerra.ru/70388/japan-maglev-500-kph/

[pensioner]

Well ... Well done! SUCH technique simply must be. Both our military and civilians.

[srha]

The main problem of the ekranoplan is its economic efficiency. Look at its predecessor "Caspian Monster" - "10 turbojet engines", and the carrying capacity (real under the load, not fuel), speed and range ~ 50 t - 430 km / h - 1500 km with a mass of ~ 540 t. that efficiency is better than an airplane - they lie. Since the ekranoplan works in two environments at once, water and air, it needs to ensure the strength of impact on water at a speed of 500 km. With such strength parameters, there can be no talk of economy even of an aircraft. In addition, he needs to ensure the separation of this safe from the water, which is even more expensive.
The second problem is dimensions and controllability. If the barge under the bridge passes quietly, then the ekranoplane at a speed of 500 km will never fit in sometime (it has a much stronger reaction than the ship’s side wind) and the turning radius is an order of magnitude larger - that means slowing down and sailing on the engines designed for other modes.

Therefore, its possible niche is only for special military applications on a deserted sea, but even there, these issues are still being resolved in cheaper ways.

Therefore, I join

Quote: Sargord A.

Do you have any problems?

[K-50]

Quote: srha

ekranoplan at a speed of 500 km will never fit

But to reduce the speed and sail under the bridge like an ordinary ship is not fate?
Tasks? I have them.
-High-speed freight and passenger (it is difficult to cross from the Sakhalin to the mainland and back, the weather is not flying, the sea is stormy, but here you can safely cross and at a fairly high speed.
- Rescue operations at sea the ability to quickly move to the area of ​​work.
- High-speed vessels for border guard.
- For military purposes (landing, carriers of missile and anti-submarine weapons).
There is much more that can be thought up, it would be something to harness.

[srha]

Quote: K-50

But to reduce the speed and sail under the bridge like an ordinary ship is not fate? laughing

Fate is destiny, you don't seem to have read it: "means to slow down and swim", - how the gift of writing awoke in you ...

"that sea is storming" - hee, do you really think that the stability of a vessel with wings is better than a vessel without wings in a “storm”? And "the weather is not flying" does not apply to the flyer over the sea?

I repeat, the problem is efficiency. All tasks listed by you cheaper, without ten turbojet engines - by other means and proper organization.

[gladcu2]

Mini submarine diversion boat, no longer range. Thanks to transportation using an ekranoplan, it can turn out quickly and not noticeably in the right place and at the right time.

A set of a pair of dozens of submarine robots to detect enemy submarines. They can be scattered in the previously set and collected back in view of the task.

[Metlik]

Quote: srha

Since the ekranoplan operates in two environments at once, water and air, it needs to ensure the strength of the impact on water at a speed of 500 km.

Modern technology allows you to make the case almost completely from composite materials. They have very high strength.

In my opinion, the most promising project is an ekranoplan with the S 500 system. It will be able to protect our submarines from the air, which means it will make our fleet much less vulnerable.

[Bayonet]

Quote: srha

Therefore, its possible niche is only for special military applications on the deserted sea, but so far these issues are being solved by cheaper methods.

During the transfer of troops to the Persian Gulf, huge transports could take on the Abrams 183 tank, 46 trailers with 20-foot containers, 1 million liters of drinking water and several million liters of fuel and lubricants. It is simply insulting to compare an ekranoplan with “Algol”.
By the way, the Algol military transports are by no means super-modern ships - their age has long passed in 40 years. Only old Dutch container ships, which have undergone a deep modernization in the 80-s. The shipping commanders often use this technique - so, at the beginning of the 2000's, the high-speed transport Lance Corporal Roy Wit, a former gas turbine fleet of the Black Sea Fleet of the type Captain Smirnov, came into operation.

But lovers of WIG hardly convince these simple truths ...

[vladkavkaz]

Bayonet (
Interestingly. How big will the bulg from Algol be if 8 pieces of Sunburns (NATO) fly in to it - A solar burn in Russian, Mosquito class?

[tlauicol]

How many flights does a 500-ton EP need to make in order to carry 180 Abrams? forty five. And all the specified cargo? several hundred flights subject to suitable weather. efficiency flies to hell, like safety. and he will make a bul-bul from one Sidewinder, a queue from a stormtrooper or a flock of flying fish that inappropriately took off at a heading. And no one will cover him, unlike the ship

[vladkavkaz]

tlauicol
Do you have problems with the Russian language?
They asked for a bulg Algol bul, and not for the transportation of your Abrams to the EP.
So do not sing here, pro-American songs.

[Throw]

The probability of a bul-bull depends on:
survivability
means of protection
defeat means
-the total time spent in the zone of the latter during the execution of the task (in this case, transport).

In all respects, the ekranoplane loses.
Amen.

[vladkavkaz]

Lance(3)SU
The ekranoplane of battle, for all of your intellects to spit deeply.
A volley of eight missiles and your Algol made a big boule, and the loss of one ekranoplan, compared with Algol, is a real trifle.

[Throw]

Well, if only the BATTLE ...
In general, it was hinted above) that the transports cover, in particular, destroyers, forming a layered air defense.
But you, when considering a tactical task, are not able to take into account the interaction of more than two types of weapons ...

[vladkavkaz]

Throw
If for the undoubtedly cleverest one it is not written that the ekranoplan acts in cooperation with the fleet and aviation, and not by itself, then undoubtedly the most powerful intellect begins to wedge and smoke, giving out bile and stupidity in the comments in the comments?

[bmv04636]

I wonder where this wonderful ship can unload all these 180 Abrams. It’s right to go to the port if it is busy, and if not, and there is active resistance from the coast. All these abrams with this big ship will go to the bottom.

[tlauicol]

Not right - Algol alone is capable of even unloading a tank division onto an unequipped coast, transporting it across two oceans.

By the way, how will the time be, read what the site should be for the same Eaglet, KM - the height, the slope in degrees, the relief, how Lun was based - the requirements are for wheelchair users (sorry, I didn't want to offend anyone). Leave tales about "the underlying surface does not matter" for kindergarten. And all for the sake of transferring two armored personnel carriers at 500 km?

[bmv04636]

from this photo you can clearly see that the ship at a glance and coastal complexes will turn it into a colander

[tlauicol]

In this photo with Algol it is clearly seen that there are no longer any shore-based PKBRKs.
this is a serious operation, not a game of "Zarnitsa"

but the "unique" capabilities of the amphibious aircraft - pay attention to the size of the cargo and the underlying surface (by the way, even such clean and flat landing areas were retrofitted)

and from you I will ever wait at least one photo of the Moon or Eaglet flying at least over trees, houses or power lines?

[Vadim237]

These healthy transporters are a good target for torpedoes and long and the draft is large.

[bmv04636]

And what prevents them from making ships based on such ships

[Vadim237]

Design and lack of engines.

[gladcu2]

After reading the comments I noticed a strange fact.

No one noticed that in the new project the ekranoplan has a biplane design.
Most likely, fuel consumption when separated from the surface of the water will be significantly lower.

Given the small area of ​​the wing of the biplane, this is still not a plane, but an ekranoplan. With its own height restrictions for ordered up to 100 m. But the stability and controllability of the biplane scheme is significantly better than the monoplane, as in the first examples of ekranoplanes.
Do not forget that the first images also suffered greatly from difficulty in management and stability.

The use of ekranoplanes is also important for the Ministry of Emergencies.

[PROXOR]

Ohhhh. I thought the topic had completely died. For me, it’s still a mystery why the Lun project with anti-ship missiles died. The ekranoplan is not heard by hydroacoustics, because it soars above the water. It is very difficult to detect them with radars, only the AWACS plane will see them in advance. The cruising speed of this car is 500km / h. Cost them much easier than ships. A swarm of 20 vehicles with at least 6 anti-ship missiles ONYX will not leave any chance for AUG.

WIG also has ample opportunity in civilian life. Take, for example, the question of saving people on the water.

[opus]

Quote: PROXOR

The ekranoplan is not heard by hydroacoustics, because it soars above the water

Here you think a bit.
The radar of the order (Destroyers, etc.) DETECTES the anti-ship missile system "hovering" at an altitude of 10 m, at a speed of 900 km / h (or even supersonic 2,5 m), which is also not "heard" by hydroacoustic systems, which has an EPR of about 0,1 m2 (let 1 m2).
And the MSA destroys it (the probability of 0,6-0,9) using regular missiles, or an air wing.
But PLUHU, with an EPR MORE THAN 100m2 (including PU RCC), slow (500km / h), at an altitude of 10m from the water + own height 19m (in total more than the Orly berk), and YET limited by a maneuver in the plane (combat radius of a turn of kilometers 15?) WHY CAN'T IT?
Where did the missiles go? Navy air wing?

My humble opinion of him (ekranoplan) can be hunted (and destroyed) by the Grumman EA-6 Prowler (even the A-6 Intruder carrier-based attack aircraft), if, instead of 2x (from 5), the ALQ-99 hangs an 2x AIM-9 container, or mm and / or 70 mm NURami ...

Quote: PROXOR

A swarm of 20 vehicles with at least 6 anti-ship missiles ONIX will not leave any chance for AUG.

The test run was only on the 1 (all 2) and then only the mock-up of the anti-ship missiles (without marshavik), they were rearranged from left to right (on the shore), cleaning the NK - 87, the tile flew (9 and 2 pieces), there are no turbine blades .

Quote: PROXOR

Take, for example, the question of saving people on the water.

when excited, more than 5 points will not sit down and will not take off.

[Vadim237]

All missiles have their own electronic warfare systems.

[Throw]

You will be wildly surprised, but hydroacoustic aircraft and helicopters are perfectly audible. Especially with submarines. And they can still shoot at them.
http://www.rae.ru/snt/?section=content&op=show_article&article_id=10003562

[uge.garik]

... With "Burany" - the same thing ... The question is strategic, Purpose and Means ...

[Spitfire]

Quote: panfil

In the distant nineties I read about these devices, the question was why they did not go into the series. On the one hand, they are very convenient for the military in that they fly at high speed almost 2 meters from the surface of the sea and therefore are not noticeable and can be a great danger to ships. However, their main problem is the extremely low economic efficiency. If 2 engines are enough for aircraft of similar sizes, then for an ekranoplan they require about eight. Accordingly, you need a lot of fuel, their operation is very expensive, unfortunately. This is probably the main reason why they did not go into the series. Although the devices were created chic.

The KM had 10 engines. But 8 of them were used at the start, 2 of the remaining were enough to maintain the cruising mode. About "similar size" - sorry, but their weight is the same - 544 tons? Only the AN-600 has a maximum speed of 225 tons. And A-380. The first has 6 engines, the second has 4. But do not forget that the latter has the most modern engines with a thrust of 31 tons each, and the KM has 13 tons each.

[gladcu2]

The biplane scheme will increase maneuverability, stability, fuel consumption and the time taken from the surface. Pay attention to the lower wings bent to the top. The turning radius can be up to 500 m.

[Vadim237]

It is necessary to create a seaplane ekranoplan, and not just an ekranoplan.

[maai]

Quote: Vadim237

It is necessary to create a seaplane ekranoplan, and not just an ekranoplan.

You said it without thinking. Everything is already thought out and included.

[Vadim237]

They are simply designing an ekranoplan - it will not have the opportunity to land on airfields and all the more so fly on an airplane - flight will be carried out only on the screen.

[gladcu2]

Well, this very scheme is shown in the photo to the article.
Biplane. With lower wings for ekranolet, and the upper is not a large area like an airplane. Small, because the main underground power will be due to the screen.

[xtur]

as a mobile platform for launching long-range supersonic anti-ship missiles ekranoplans very useful - within a few thousand kilometers from its shore, the ZGRLS can provide them with the coordinates of enemy ships, and they can fire at them without entering the coverage area of ​​carrier-based aviation.
If we compare them in this capacity with conventional heavy-duty aircraft, then it is obvious that ekranoplans airfields are not needed, which is a very important advantage for the North.

[Bayonet]

Quote: xtur

as a mobile platform for launching supersonic anti-ship missiles of long range ekranoplanes are very useful

A submarine is not better? Its main plus is stealth! A full-size ekranoplan will detect any patrol aircraft, even VISUALLY!

[xtur]

as far as physics of the screen effect can be understood, the main advantage ekranoplan lies in the very great cheapness of its manufacture, in comparison with aircraft similar in carrying capacity.

To build as an experiment / test / laboratory model in the mid-60s an airplane with the carrying capacity of "Mriya", which was built by the entire USSR 20 years later in the amount of one sample, speaks of the fundamentally different cost of building these devices. When the CM broke, they did not even try to lift / repair it, which speaks of its essentially bargain price. Try to imagine a similar incident with "Mriya" - given its cost, they would definitely try to fix it in any accident (of course, if the cost of restoration would not be equal to the cost of building a new one)

Obviously, it is the prime cost of building an airplane that is the main component of its operating costs, and not the cost of burning kerosene.

From what has been said it is obvious that 10 - 20 KM will cost much cheaper than any Ash, providing the same salvo, but having a completely different mobility. Of course, the security / stealthiness of the CM detachment will be completely different in comparison with the movements of the submarine, but mobility achieved at very low cost is too attractive not to try to find an acceptable way to use it.

[RuslanNN]

The ekranoplanes were not in vain called the killers of aircraft carriers. To arm against ship missiles, to use stealth technologies, even though a colossus flying so low by itself is very difficult to detect.

[Fedman]

Stealth technology? You look at this fool. Just by eye, estimate her drag with all these bulging engines, launchers and a boat bottom. Plus, add that it flies over the sea, where the air resistance is maximum. Now imagine what will happen if you add to all this the shape characteristic of stealth aircraft. Although it seems to me that with such a huge surface area, no stealth technologies will help.

[fa2998]

Quote: Vasya

Quote: panfil

In the distant nineties I read about these devices, the question was why they did not go into the series.

And to which ministry should they be assigned? Sea or air transport? Development is promising, which means financing. So they did according to the principle: do not get to anyone, so as not to swear.

Dear Vasya, back in the 60-70s, Soviet generals and admirals looked at the flights of ekranoplanes and came to the conclusion that the flight on the screen is a classic flight at low altitude, and takeoff and landing resembles a seaplane (a flying boat) .So, this is aviation, naval aviation. And why did not go into the series. The original problem was not invented. With economic efficiency, any plane will transport much larger cargo, at a higher speed, by any route (not tied to the screen). An even larger load, the ship can handle, not so fast, but it is cheap, and in any weather (in case of excitement, takeoff and landing on the electric drive causes strong loads and vibrations, hence the accident rate). I am not an opponent of the electric drive, if there is an original idea of ​​how to use them in a war, I am "FOR". Here efficiency rests ... RS Tut was told to use for communication with the Crimea-the best ekranoplan IT BRIDGE, which is being built.

[16112014nk]

WIGs need to be built and put into service. If they were at one time in the North. In the fleet, many sailors from Komsomolets could have been saved.

[Bayonet]

Quote: 16112014nk

If they were at one time in the North. In the fleet, many sailors from Komsomolets could have been saved.

Good as a lifeguard! The main thing here is not economy, but the speed of arrival at the accident site and the ability to save people. There was a project of the ocean rescuer "Mriya" + "Eaglet" with a very long range, but ....

[tlauicol]

but ... when they realized that he would not sit in the storm, then
an airplane without such a burden flies further and faster and discards life rafts in any excitement

[Bayonet]

Quote: Tlauicol

an airplane without such a burden flies further and faster and discards life rafts in any excitement

With strong excitement and wind, rafts are unlikely to fall as intended.

[Throw]

I’ll support pro rescuers - there must be two types: EP and a truck with a ramp for dropping rescue bots with crew.
Even in a strong storm, you can throw bots that pick people up, and when the excitement decreases, the EP can remove them.

[tlauicol]

the aircraft will deliver the bots faster and find people faster. EP will not be able to wait for the end of the storm for days. the ships will approach and begin to lift people before the end of the storm. what for then? will arrive later than everyone, see how people die and fly away? if at all able to take off

[Bayonet]

Quote: Tlauicol

an airplane without such a burden flies further and faster

The project envisaged seven bases around the world that would serve all areas of the most intensive shipping and marine fishing, guaranteed to deliver rescuers to the disaster site in two to four hours. With intermediate refueling, the system could deliver rescuers to anywhere in the World Ocean in no more than 12 hours. It was planned that seven such systems would carry out 210–250 rescue operations annually, saving 2700–3100 people.
Unfortunately, such an interesting project remained on paper. International companies that insure marine risks, which are responsible for rescue services, refused to invest in the project - it looked too exotic: it wasn’t a plane — it was flying, and not a ship — it was floating ... That's how sailors are saved in the old fashioned way. Who is in time.

[tlauicol]

This project did not provide for one thing - how not to fly an ekranoplane when landing in a storm ?!

[Bayonet]

Quote: Tlauicol

how not to fly ekranoplane when landing in a storm ?!

For this, there is a head; it will not land in a strong storm.

[tlauicol]

the head will say that the plane will come faster (by the way, the storm does not prevent the plane from taking off), and the EP will wait at the base for a week until the wave subsides, because it will not be able to take off stupidly before the storm ends. and people will die

[Fedman]

And what, in your opinion, is it better than an ordinary seaplane? That, firstly, is faster, and secondly, it is much easier for him to find people flying at high altitude.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Fedman

And what, in your opinion, is it better than an ordinary seaplane? That, firstly, is faster, and secondly, it is much easier for him to find people flying at high altitude.

The ekranoplan's seaworthiness is significantly higher than that of existing seaplanes, due to the more robust hull structure and smaller wingspan span. The low wing also plays the role of a wave suppressor, facilitating the transfer of salvaged from boats and boats. The ekranoplan can carry out rescue operations with waves up to five points inclusive, which would make it possible to use the An-225 / Orlyonok system in more than 90% of rescue cases, against 45–65% (depending on model) for seaplanes. By the way, the distinguishing feature of the "Eaglet" in comparison with the previous ekranoplanes was almost the ceiling of the aircraft - the ekranoplan was able to fly at an altitude of 3000 m and above!

[tlauicol]

(C) "the distinctive feature of the" Eaglet "in comparison with the previous ekranoplans was practically the aircraft ceiling - the ekranoplan was capable of flying at an altitude of 3000 m and higher!" - AHA - ON PAPER! IN PRACTICE? Are there facts?
Even if this miracle happened - to fly on the afterburner, using all engines, including accelerating ones, consuming fuel and abandoning the load, reducing the radius of action and cursing the aerodynamics - who could such a flyer save!

[tlauicol]

Instead of putting cons, they would show at least one ekranoplan or ekranolet capable of flying at altitude Yes, even one fact of such a flight can lead .
No and no again !
.

[vladkavkaz]

tlauicol
Where do you say that from your cries in rejection of this class of technology it clearly deceives?
You already got your screams.
Read and shut up.
http://riverforum.net/showthread.php?t=1545

[tlauicol]

I read your UAV-UAV and not for the first time - and again NOT A SINGLE FACT of the flight. In addition to "my grandmother told me", "I heard", the alleged performance characteristics, but he could, and this and that ..
I affirm: never, never a single EP has risen to a height of at least 100m and has not flown through an airplane, not to mention 3000m! Not a single test! It is a fact ! Can you refute?

[gladcu2]

It is very doubtful that the ini could jump to a height of even 25 m. For the lifting force of the screen effect is abruptly lost. The fact that this is most likely speculation.

With the loss of the screen effect, you need the right airplane wing with a typical plumage. And then there may be contradictions as opposed to the screen wing.

[Pauls_77]

The ekranoplanes are very urgently needed and necessary in the Far East. As they say isho yesterday. In the civilian direction, this is transportation from Vladivostok to Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, Kamchatka and Chukotka. At the cost of transportation, ships and ekranoplans are comparable. And also for the Ministry of Emergencies and the Border Service in general, a super universal tool. And for the military it is simply corny in order to transport goods and personnel in the same directions, it is very necessary. Not to mention the special projects of the ekranoplan as a scout, carrier rocket or torpedo weapons.

[maai]

Quote: Pauls_77

The ekranoplanes are very urgently needed and necessary in the Far East. As they say isho yesterday. In the civilian direction, this is transportation from Vladivostok to Sakhalin, the Kuril Islands, Kamchatka and Chukotka. At the cost of transportation, ships and ekranoplans are comparable. And also for the Ministry of Emergencies and the Border Service in general, a super universal tool. And for the military it is simply corny in order to transport goods and personnel in the same directions, it is very necessary. Not to mention the special projects of the ekranoplan as a scout, carrier rocket or torpedo weapons.

I don’t know who minus you .... probably an enemy of the Russian state. Align.

I add that along the northern borders of our vast homeland, these machines are also the place. Both cargo and passengers and security. Especially in conditions of the need for development and support of the northern regions.

PS About "gorging fuel"! Those who said about this should understand at least 3 things:
1 - That these machines are far ahead of their time;
2 - Preserved, or even put a cross on them - difficult times of the 90s;
3 - And the 90s passed and the engines stepped far.

PS2 These machines should not be compared with airplanes! And with the ships! The speed of delivery of anything anywhere they have is beyond any competition.
Weather!? Nobody pushes them into the open ocean with 8 and 9 ball waves. They go well above the essence. The most is the northern way to discover.

[tlauicol]

in order to go over land by plane it is just necessary to cut 10 ES engines, and in a storm too - if this is not fuel devouring, then what? he’s not even able to sit halfway. and if you compare with the ship, then the payload, and the cost of transportation from the EP just gold will come out

[abc_alex]

An ekranoplan cannot fly like an airplane. An ekranolet can fly And this is not "over land". This is great. The screen effect is indifferent to the underlying surface. By the way, it was also discovered when planes were landing at an airfield. Therefore, the ekranoplane "10 engines" should not be cut in over the land. Enough marching.
10 engines are cut only during acceleration. Moreover, when accelerating from water, when a huge fool of the same Moon picks up speed, semi-submerged in water, goes to glide, breaks off the surface and rises on the screen. Everything further on the march.

Further, not only an ekranoplan, but also an aircraft of similar dimensions, cannot land halfway. BUT! If we are talking about an ekranoplane scheme Lunya and KM. Alekseev, on the other hand, had a more progressive scheme - Orlyonok. And now there is an alternative scheme - Aquaglide. Absolutely nothing prevents these machines from "landing half-way", they are based on land. The eaglet, in general, can go ashore at near-zero speed and actually hang like a helicopter.

To compare the carrying capacity of an aircraft with a semi-submerged vehicle - what is the level of trolling? Or do you get different results when comparing a ship and an airplane? :) The ekranolet is more powerful than the plane and much faster than the ship. But not vice versa. :) This is not a flying ship or a floating plane. In general, his "naval origin" is a historical accident. The theory of flight on the screen is aviation, and the first ekranoplan was built by aircraft designer Bartini.

The transportation cost of the ekranolet is certainly higher than that of the ship. Ships generally have the lowest transportation costs, which is why they provide up to 70% of world trade. But when comparing with an airplane - this is a question.

And by the way, the ekranoplan is not afraid of the wave, it is inert enough not to fall between the waves. In any case, the Eaglet flew stably at 3-4 points in waves up to 2 meters high.

[tlauicol]

Well, tell me about "the ground effect is indifferent to the ground effect". at the same time, find on the map of Russia at least 100 km, where the 500-ton ekranoplan will not crash into a mountain, hill, building, power line or tree over land. At the same time, tell us about the conditions of basing and going ashore - you will be horrified why they even dream of building them.

and the storm is not 4 points, the storm is death for ekranoplan.

[Nether Khan]

"and the storm is not 4 points, the storm is death for the ekranoplan."

Yes, he does not care for the storm, he flies due to the effect of ekranoplana effect compressing the air under the wing so that he just stupidly fly a wave.

[Vadim237]

For ekranoplanes, engines must be created with high efficiency, and what is not suitable right now will have too much fuel consumption.

[Bayonet]

Quote: Tlauicol

- if this is not fuel devouring, then what?

On the "Caspian Monster" there were ten RD-7 turbojets from the Tu-22 supersonic bomber! Can you imagine the appetite?

[abc_alex]

No need to compare them with ships. Already compared in due time. As a result, the program was cheated.
An ekranoplan, or rather an ekranolet, is the same specific machine as a cruise missile among missiles. Like self-propelled guns or infantry fighting vehicles among armored vehicles or a helicopter among aircraft. She has her own niche, her own limitations. It is needed for specific purposes; they will never replace ships or aircraft. But he will perfectly fill the niche between them.

[Bayonet]

Quote: maai

And the 90s passed and the engines stepped far.

Well, here you said a lot ....

[moreman78]

Really sensible comments a bit. The rest is SLAG! Most do not understand anything in the subject, only the Internet users have read and let's scribble theories - about the destruction of the AUG, about the sowing path, about the oceans ... Kindergarten, in a word.

[vladkavkaz]

moreman78
Dear, and what murkers have you read that you so competently, sensibly and scientifically substantiated in your comment the claim to omniscience?

[xtur]

> to go over land on an airplane just need to cut 10 engines of the EP, and in the storm too - if this is not devouring fuel, then what?

hardly anyone knows the exact fuel consumption figures for comparable KM aircraft in terms of carrying capacity, and KM himself.

KM is a project and construction of the 60s of the last century, when there were no similar aircraft in terms of take-off weight. And now it’s impossible to compare the existing aircraft with KM, because the efficiency of modern engines has gone far ahead.

[NordUral]

Do we even imagine its price? And where will he fight? In general, the ekranoplans are already the last century, their time is gone.

[Nether Khan]

Ships before last century their time also passed.
And the ekranoplan will easily drown the aircraft carrier, and it will be beaten off from samalis.

[Semenov]

An absolutely correct and fundamentally correct decision. Fuel consumption is 40-50% less than the plane (Internet), the screen helps. In Siberia, the Far East and the North 1 person. for 5-10 sq. km., a power line from a helicopter cannot be found, but there is a sea of ​​natural resources. Technologies to work out for 500 tons, land development requires 1000, 10000 tons, due to the speed and unnecessary roads, investments will pay off instantly. If we manage to build something large-scale in a series, icebreakers will not be needed, the demand for ships, airplanes, trains (water or land - what's the difference?) Will decrease, and then along the chain. There is also a rumor that Thatcher (?) Came to Russia on this matter in the 90s to negotiate with Yeltsin or Gorbachev, we then far overtook them. A large-capacity high-speed "off-road vehicle" and "all-terrain vehicle" is needed by any country, and in military affairs it can be used in the form of a "flock" of small inexpensive missile boats as part of a radar boat, a missile boat, an air defense boat, etc., and destroy more large ships and ships.

[tlauicol]

beyond the Urals there is not even 50 km that the device could pass in screen mode - continuous hummocks, rocks, trees, hills. Taiga and tundra is not a table for you, and rivers are not a direct freeway. Mi 26 drags 20 tons of cargo or 150 reindeer herders (almost 70% of the weight) - any ekranoplan of comparable payload will break there in a flat cake, and will cost like a steamer. (The eaglet dragged only 27% of the weight - the same 20 tons). Flying in airplane mode means eating a bunch of fuel and giving up most of the cargo, reducing the radius of the flight - otherwise poor aerodynamics will not allow it. Now look at the settlements and estimate: even the Eaglet took one and a half minutes to take off, and the Moon 5 kilometers - what are we going to build them bases in the taiga? cut down the forest, straighten the riverbeds? or unload it right in the middle of the swamp?
A trifle 2-20 is local and is not worth building. North Helicopter needed!

[Bayonet]

Quote: Tlauicol

North Helicopter needed!

Better a hybrid of an airship and a helicopter. In the photo, the Boeing project.
Meanwhile -
In Germany, construction began on the world's largest airship with a length of 260 meters. Its carrying capacity is 160 tons, a range of 10 thousand kilometers. The authors of the project promise that this giant will go to heaven in two years.

[Semenov]

Central Siberian Plateau, West Siberian Plain, tundra 20%, taiga 50% - Russia (from Wiki). A straight cut of the type of power transmission line is preferably cut, and it does not matter what surface is on the highway (tundra, swamps, river, ravine, sea). Instead of an aerodrome - a lake or a flat plot of land, it is easy and fast (it can be done together); instead of the road, there is a direction; there is no need to straighten rivers, just like to unload in a swamp. And now the cost of the road is approximately - deforestation, gravel, drainage, bridges, maintenance, repair and more. What about the construction time? And so fast and stable communication with a remote village of oil workers / prospectors / builders in the wild. And there will be more people living in the Far East and the North. But the tonnage should be large so that a person of 500 reindeer herders climbed (preferably with deer). There is no need for BAM either; a convenient route has been laid - and forward.

[tlauicol]

tundra, coast, W-C plain, W-C plateau, taiga

[tlauicol]

For example: the length of railway tracks in Russia is 85,3 thousand km - while the part of the country that interests us is not covered by them. Do you propose cutting down at least one hundred million km of clearings 100 meters wide? start right now, and then to the next. you won’t have time for the millennium.
And these are just flowers. It is necessary to equalize the relief so that the height of the drops does not exceed 10 m, and a slope of 3 degrees - that is, remove and transport billions of square kilometers of rocky soil, earth and stones, dam or turn thousands of rivers, build hundreds of locks. Muisky Tunnel (15km) 25 years of construction - and then a tunnel, and not a highway in the mountains and hills of great width, depth and length! Plus a basing system for large ES. Neither KM, nor Lun, nor even Eaglet took off from the ground - we need a 5-km water surface. Will we transfer 9/10 settlements or dig huge ponds in permafrost and mountains?
Maybe it's easier to buy a helicopter? all the more, his weight return is 2,5 times higher

[bmv04636]

In Siberia, there are high-speed roads for ekranoplanes:
One of the riches of Siberia is its great rivers - Lena, Yenisei, Ob, Irtysh. The vast expanses of Siberia cross these rivers and carry their waters from southern latitudes to the north to the Arctic Ocean.
Ekranoplan all seasonal high-speed delivery of goods which is also not afraid of shallows.

[tlauicol]

Rivers are not a direct freeway - which means extra time and fuel consumption compared to aviation. And how to solve the problem of bridges? Shipping? Power line GRES? Finally, the basing of even a 500-ton EP implies the presence of a 5000m clean and direct water surface without islands and bends, without shipping for takeoff.

[bmv04636]

not necessarily even a 500 tone can be done for less, but what prevents the screenlet from jumping over platinum. But doesn’t GDP need to aircraft. Wormholes could establish a year-round northern delivery in Siberia, and not just in the summer. In addition, either last year or two years ago, it was difficult to import links with shallow water in the summer, and this is parallel to the screenlet as it is not so.

[tlauicol]

The ekranolet, like the starship, pepelats or the Imperial Cruiser, the dam in parallel - this is true.
But the truth is that they do not exist. None even climbed 100m ever! What prevented the so-called to fly the Lun fleet on the Volga to the Caspian Sea and back under its own power? Everything got in the way: bridges, barges, islands, locks and common sense.

Less than 500 tons are still not going in a straight line - they cannot be compared with a helicopter in speed, load-bearing capacity, or universality. Northern Delivery, they will not pull. So, only officials to go fishing / hunting.

So will I wait for at least one image of Elet at least over a forest or houses? I'm not talking about the promised kilometers of altitude

[Nether Khan]

The ekranoplan and should not rise above 5-6 meters, it has such a working height. The whole thing is that it is more economical than the airplane, more load-bearing, and the speed is quite comparable with it ..
And in the Caspian, with the exception of the Caspian monster, ekranoplanes did not fly like that.

[tlauicol]

the whole thing is that you are too lazy to open any site and see the performance characteristics of transport aircraft, comparable to EP weight. Speed, range, carrying capacity (here even ekranoplanes give helicopters) - EP is screwed up in all respects.
Don't be lazy - rummage right now. Start with the "weakling" IL-76 - it is even smaller than the Eaglet, and further in the weight category.
Myths should not be believed

[Nether Khan]

Eaglet is just a model. What is a working model to compare with regular machines?

[nightingale]

in Togliatti they made an ekranoplane with wennel engines, the engines were very crude, when they changed them to bmws they could rise twenty meters. even were able to fly over the forest.

[Von Ungern]

About ekranoplans, it seems, Alekseev, I read in the journal "Tekhnika-Molodyozhi" (earth rest in peace, it was a good magazine) in 1991. I can say the following: ekranoplans are much cheaper than similar aircraft (in my opinion, twice), more economical (40% percent), have a gigantic payload and are much more reliable, because they are much simpler avionics and control. At the same time, they are incredibly difficult to detect because they fly near the water itself (but do not touch the water surface). The pilots have such a trick - to reduce the likelihood of detection, they fly over the sea at an extremely low altitude. Here it turns out even cooler. What follows from this - we have the very flying ship from the cartoon, which NATO will not be able to detect in time. A sudden landing in the area of ​​radio patrolling of surface, underwater and air targets with a complete missile defense of a potential enemy. And the ekranoplan is not only difficult to detect, it is also almost impossible to hit it with an unguided missile or torpedo (a special “Shkval” -type missile is needed, which the Americans do not have yet).
The ekranoplan can fly over the mountains-forests if desired, but there is already a huge fuel consumption, after all, its purpose is to fly 5 meters above the water (the lifting force here seems to arise due to the surface of the water, from which it repels, but in the air it has use an airplane flight pattern, which is extremely difficult for an ekranoplan, and it is not necessary, in principle). We see one example of the principle of action of an ekranoplan in the usual "Meteor", a river motor ship on hydrofoils. This is also a kind of ekranoplan and "Meteora" was also invented by Alekseev.
Something like that.

[Von Ungern]

A small correction - the working altitude of the ekranoplane - 1-3 meters above the water (the effect of an air cushion between the wing and the surface of the water creates an advantage in carrying capacity and economy over similar aircraft). And it turns out that heavy ES in general cannot fly above the Christmas trees - only above the sea surface, where it has no equal.

By the way, in the Black Sea Fleet there is a ship almost ekranoplan "Bora", called. Well, it's true, he still floats on water more than flies. Although the speed of "Bora" is what a ship, which is interesting.

[Squirrel]

An explanatory thing was created by R.E. Alekseev. It is a pity that not all of his thoughts went to his followers. In fact, ekranoplanes have a great future.

[clansman]

Idiocy. It’s time for everyone to cancel pensions for the sake of guns, but except for the cops and the military, of course.

[candidate]

BRICS time is running out
The country is expanding
Need WIG here
To be in time here and there
------------------------------
Details and topic
http://ekranoplan-ru.narod.ru/

Very tempting to use
electric propellers like
E-Fun Hybrid Airliner

[polpol]

Continuation of the theme in October 2017.
https://topwar.ru/128250-v-rf-razrabatyvaetsya-sv
erhtyazhelyy-ekranoplan.html