Military Review

The crash of the carrier rocket "Proton-M"

107
16 May another scheduled launch of a Proton-M launch vehicle with a spacecraft on board failed. Due to some, not yet installed, problems with the operation of some units, the payload was not brought into the calculated orbit. The rocket with the spacecraft burned in dense layers of the atmosphere. It was alleged that some debris could fall in the Trans-Baikal Territory.




The most common launch of the Proton-M rocket ended in failure, the goal of which was to launch the Mexican communications satellite MexSat-1 into orbit. To launch this device into geostationary orbit, it was planned to use the Proton-M launch vehicle and the Breeze-M upper stage. The spacecraft MexSat-1 was supposed to replenish the satellite constellation that provides communications in Central and South America. The MexSat-1 satellite is based on the Boeing 702HP platform, used as the basis for the construction of geostationary communications satellite.

Preparations for the launch was in accordance with the planned schedule. So, in the afternoon of May 13, Roscosmos announced the holding of a council of technical managers. Responsible persons heard reports from work managers, after which they decided to take the launch vehicle to the launch pad. The procedure of taking the Proton-M missile to the 200 site began on May 14 at 03: 30 Moscow time.

The launch of the Proton-M rocket with the Mexican satellite MexSat-1 took place on 16 in May at 08: 47 MSK. The first few minutes of the rocket flight took place in normal mode. According to Roskosmos, at the 497 second flight some problems occurred in the operation of third-stage engines. Shortly after receiving information about the abnormal operation of the engines, telemetry transmission ceased. The accident occurred about a minute before the scheduled moment of separation of the upper stage with the payload.

It soon became clear that the separation of the third stage did not happen and the satellite was probably lost. For the next few hours, the specialists of the rocket industry found out the fate of the launch vehicle and its payload, and also tried to establish the consequences of the accident. Literally half an hour after the loss of communication with the rocket in the domestic media, the first reports appeared about the accident, including with some technical details. So, RIA News With reference to a representative of the space industry reported that the satellite MexSat-1, most likely, will be considered lost. In addition, the source said that this device was planned to be put into orbit at an altitude of about 36 thousand km, but it did not even rise by one thousand.

In the afternoon of May 16, Roscosmos announced some details of the emergency launch. The approximate time of the cessation of the normal operation of the rocket systems, as well as other aspects of the accident, was mentioned. In 497 seconds of flight, the launch vehicle rose to an altitude of just 161 km. After the termination of the normal operation of the engine all the elements of the third stage and the payload, falling, burned in dense layers of the atmosphere. As of the date of publication of the news, Roscosmos experts did not record any incidents of unburned debris.

Possible causes of the accident were not called. It was alleged that the MexSat-1 spacecraft and its launch were insured by the customer. The Russian side, in turn, has insured its liability to third parties in advance. The investigation of the causes of the accident was to take a special interdepartmental commission.

According to Roskosmos, all the wreckage of the third stage of the Proton-M rocket and the Mexican satellite burned in the atmosphere. Nevertheless, in the morning there were reports of the fall of some fragments. RIA Novosti, citing a source in the emergency services, reported the fall of one of the fragments of the destroyed aggregates. In this case, the chip fell at a distance from the settlements. The place of his fall was not specified. Also in the morning on May 16, there were reports of a possible release of toxic propellant components that did not burn during the accident or the fall of debris.

By the evening of May 16 received messages from Mexico. Minister of Communications and Transport Gerardo Ruiz Esparza said that the loss of the satellite MexSat-1 will not affect the operation of communication systems. The operation of satellite systems in Mexico is guaranteed. In addition, the Minister noted that Mexico, developing satellite technologies, should be aware of the high risks in this area. Nevertheless, the risks are fully paid off by the benefits of launching and operating spacecraft. The satellite and its launch cost Mexico 390 million US dollars. The device and the launch were insured, which will allow the Mexican side to fully offset its costs.

The day after the accident, a commission was created, which is to be investigated. The chairman of the commission was the head of Roscosmos, Igor Komarov. Deputy Director General of the GKNPTs named for them. Mv Khrunicheva Alexander Medvedev. In addition to them, the commission included representatives of Roskosmos, the Ministry of Defense, the Board of the Military-Industrial Commission, as well as employees of various organizations in the space industry.

The causes of the accident have not yet been determined. The investigation will take some time, after which the commission will be able to name the prerequisites for the rocket crash. Without waiting for the conclusions of the commission, the public, experts and the press are trying to build their own assumptions about the possible causes of abnormal operation of third-stage engines.

Due to the lack of published information, the public and specialists who do not have access to the investigation materials are unlikely to accurately determine the causes of the accident. For this reason, at the moment there are different versions trying to explain the occurrence of prerequisites for the accident and the course of events on the 497 second flight.

The most plausible and plausible version is of any marriage made during the construction of the launch vehicle. This version is supported by the results of the investigation of previous accidents of Proton missiles. So, the cause of emergency launches 3 July 2013 of the year and 16 May 2014-th were the design of the launch vehicle and improper assembly. In particular, the cause of the 2013 accident of the year was the incorrect fixing of the angular velocity sensors: three of the six such devices were assembled in the wrong position when the rocket was assembled.

It is possible that some problems in the design of the launch vehicle or its individual components became the cause of the recent accident. However, the final conclusions should be made by an official commission. She has to examine all the available materials and conduct a full investigation. It may take from several weeks to several months to carry out all the necessary work. Roscosmos promises to report separately on the results of the commission’s work.


On the materials of the sites:
http://roscosmos.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://lenta.ru/
http://vz.ru/
http://svpressa.ru/
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  1. VEKT
    VEKT 19 May 2015 06: 40 New
    20
    Missiles fall like leaves in the fall, and not any new ones, but the Proton, time-tested. Maybe it's time to draw conclusions.
    1. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 19 May 2015 06: 44 New
      11
      It's a shame if spacecraft accidents are related to the human factor, namely, the drop in staff qualifications ...
      1. NEXUS
        NEXUS 19 May 2015 07: 55 New
        26
        Quote: Starover_Z
        It's a shame if spacecraft accidents are related to the human factor, namely, the drop in staff qualifications ...

        when a rocket crashes once, we can talk about the qualifications of the service personnel, design flaws, even the weather at the time of launch. But when the Proton falls THREEin a row, you can’t cover it with qualifications, and I think that we can talk about sabotage. hi
        1. Sanny
          Sanny 19 May 2015 08: 03 New
          15
          I would not advise you to close your eyes to production problems and blame everything on "sabotage" ...
          1. flSergius
            flSergius 19 May 2015 10: 20 New
            14
            I would not advise you to close your eyes to production problems and blame everything on "sabotage"


            If production problems were previously identified, but no actions were taken to prevent + preventive shaking of adjacent production lines, then this is also sabotage, only at a high level.
            1. uwzek
              uwzek 19 May 2015 16: 34 New
              -6
              If manufacturing problems have been previously identified but no preventive action has been taken
              The only production problem in the city of Moscow is that all the production is done by Tajiks who failed to become Moscow janitors ...
              1. Zuborez
                Zuborez 19 May 2015 16: 48 New
                +1
                Quote: uwzek
                The only production problem in the city of Moscow is that all the production is done by Tajiks who failed to become Moscow janitors ...

                Perhaps you have worked for many years in Moscow industry, since you make such authoritative statements?
        2. beeFrost
          beeFrost 19 May 2015 12: 54 New
          -3
          The Mexican satellite was built on a Boeing base this time; there was no separation of the third stage (i.e., the base of the Boeing did not separate from the proton) - these are two. .... diversion? - very possible.
          1. opus
            opus 19 May 2015 14: 32 New
            +4
            Quote: beeFrost
            there was no separation of the third stage (i.e., the base of the Boeing did not separate from the proton) - these are two. .... diversion?

            So for reference:
            1. Communication satellites Boeing 702GEM Satmex was on the upper (domestic) block "Breeze-M", and not on the "third stage".
            "built" the yoke of Boeing, not Mexicans on the "basis"
            2. Boeing BSS-702 and HS-702, Boeing 702HP and Boeing 702MP are produced with 1995.
            These are PLATFORMS for Intelsat-22, Inmarsat-5, DirecTV-10, NSS-8 satellites.
            25 pieces are running, 39 seems to be built
            3. Assembly and preparation for launching the Proton-M launch vehicle are held in the assembly and test buildings (MIC) 92-1 and 92А-50 on the territory of the “92 platform”.
            Whatever
            Quote: beeFrost
            sabotage? - very possible.
            it is necessary to "bypass" the fiber-optic system of remote control and monitoring of spacecraft (SC)
            - Blocks of the Proton launch vehicle are delivered to the 92-A50 MIC, where each block is checked independently. After this, the launch vehicle is assembled.
            -A fully assembled package of three stages is subjected to complex tests, after which a conclusion is given on its readiness for docking with the space warhead (CSC);
            -The container with the spacecraft is delivered to the 102 hall of MIK 92-A50where work is carried out to clean its outer surfaces and preparatory operations for unloading;
            - The spacecraft is removed from the container, prepared and refueled with fuel components in the 103A finishing hall.
            There are spacecraft checks, after which it is transported to the next 101 hall for assembly with an overclocking unit;
            - In the finishing room 101 (technical complex for assembling and checking the KCH), the spacecraft is docked with the Breeze-M RB;
            -KCH is transported to the finishing room 111, where the Proton-M rocket launcher is assembled and tested;
            A few days after the completion of the electrical tests, the fully assembled ILV is transported from the MIK to the fueling station for refueling the low-pressure tanks of the Briz-M upper stage.
            At the end of the refueling, a meeting of the State Commission is held based on the results of work performed on the Proton launch vehicle technical and launch complexes. The Commission decides on ILV readiness for installation on the launch pad;
            -RKN is installed on the launch pad

            4. RB "Breeze-M" since 2008 carried out 48 launches of the "Proton" rocket with it, of which four ended in accidents through the fault of the Breeze-M overclocking units.
            1. Falcon5555
              Falcon5555 19 May 2015 18: 23 New
              +1
              opus: it is necessary to "bypass" the fiber-optic system of remote control and monitoring of spacecraft (SC)

              Ie fiber-optic cables already laid in space?
              1. opus
                opus 19 May 2015 23: 34 New
                +1
                Quote: Falcon5555
                Ie fiber-optic cables already laid in space?

                ?
                And where does the "space"?
                Was the "sabotage" done in "space"?
                HVAC remote control and monitoring of spacecraft allows the customer and the State Commission CONTROL all the processes that I described above on-line.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. valentber
              valentber 20 May 2015 12: 08 New
              +1
              This is too much for chance! What is going on in the industry ?! Where can I find a clear analysis of the state of the space industry?
          2. washi
            washi 19 May 2015 16: 03 New
            -1
            Quote: beeFrost
            The Mexican satellite was built on a Boeing base this time; there was no separation of the third stage (i.e., the base of the Boeing did not separate from the proton) - these are two. .... diversion? - very possible.

            Maybe these are my dreams, but mostly missiles with foreign satellites are falling. Missiles and satellites are insured by foreign companies.
            Suppose, officially, we are bad, but foreigners incur losses. Especially with the Protons should soon say goodbye
            1. uwzek
              uwzek 19 May 2015 16: 38 New
              +5
              Quote: Vasya
              Quote: beeFrost
              The Mexican satellite was built on a Boeing base this time; there was no separation of the third stage (i.e., the base of the Boeing did not separate from the proton) - these are two. .... diversion? - very possible.

              Maybe these are my dreams, but mostly missiles with foreign satellites are falling. Missiles and satellites are insured by foreign companies.
              Suppose, officially, we are bad, but foreigners incur losses. Especially with the Protons should soon say goodbye

              And our burnt Glonasy?
            2. opus
              opus 19 May 2015 23: 42 New
              0
              Quote: Vasya
              Maybe these are my dreams, but mostly missiles with foreign satellites are falling.

              1.OUR is basically, even considering that the foreigners are still the main customers.
              It’s easy to dress up, it’s difficult to regain customer confidence.
              And it’s not about the money (0 insurance. Any spacecraft is launched on TIME, but is made (in case of loss) from 1 of the year .... Even on the Boeing 702HP and Boeing 702MP platforms (Boeing, in my opinion, has 14 pieces in stock ( no filling)
              2.
              Quote: Vasya
              are falling
              ours not less (in% ratio even more)
            3. valentber
              valentber 20 May 2015 12: 09 New
              0
              In any case, is it complete without outside interference?
          3. valentber
            valentber 20 May 2015 12: 06 New
            0
            I support the version of sabotage. Committees work poorly.
        3. opus
          opus 19 May 2015 14: 12 New
          +3
          Quote: NEXUS
          But when the proton falls THREE contract, then you can’t cover it with qualifications, and I think that we can talk about sabotage

          comrade !!!
          If you are not in the know, or too lazy to look at the statistics, do not write NONSENSE



          On May 17 of 2015 of the year, Proton-M launched 90 times (with 2001),
          of which 80 were completely successful (88,8%).

          Your
          Quote: NEXUS
          THREE contract
          de facto: 1 once a year failure at launches of 8-10 per year
          1. Rider
            Rider 19 May 2015 17: 42 New
            +2
            In theory, they should not fall at all.
            1. opus
              opus 19 May 2015 18: 34 New
              +1
              Quote: Horseman
              In theory, they should not fall at all.

              What "idea" and what kind of fright "shouldn't" be?
              1. The reliability of the means by which a person is able to reach the cosmos is far from ideal.
              (Rocket H is a complex structure, 90% or more consisting of explosive fuel, and sometimes self-igniting fuel).
              As an example of TNA (only him)

              oxidizing agent (usually −182,96 ° C), fuel (for hydrogen −259,14 ° C) and very close (centimeters) hot turbine gases (with reducing gas up to + 1200К, with oxidizing gas up to + 700К), a tricky sealing system and leaked, all this with nTNAG = 60000 rpm and higher ....

              In the Tk lines, the pressure is MORE than the pressure in the combustion chamber of the rocket engine (otherwise it will not leak)
              Why "should"?
              3.UR-500K - "dad" of protons:
              Accumulated value of statistical probability successful the launch of the launch vehicle amounted to the end of the 1971 year 0,548.
              4. "global" value of 5-8% of emergency starts = THIS IS VERY GOOD
          2. valentber
            valentber 20 May 2015 12: 13 New
            +1
            That is 11,2% - failures. This is too much for professionals (if they are still working). The impression is that dumbasses work in production, and thieves lead them. At the same time, everyone does not care !!!
          3. maai
            maai 21 May 2015 20: 57 New
            0
            Quote: opus
            de facto: 1n once a year failure at launches of 8-10 per year

            Do you think that 1 to 10 is the norm !? This is not broken pixels for the production of TVs!
        4. Antonov
          Antonov 19 May 2015 19: 50 New
          +4
          Quote: NEXUS
          But when the proton falls THREEin a row, you can’t cover it with qualifications, and I think that we can talk about sabotage. hi

          Proton is a time-tested rocket that has proven itself well. And if everything was fine with her before, and now the problems have begun, then there are only two options:
          - Decreased component quality
          - Reduced build quality of the rocket itself
          Rogozin will tell you why this is happening. After all, he is "the main skeet". And you should only look for saboteurs with pests and put them against the wall.
          1. NEXUS
            NEXUS 19 May 2015 20: 24 New
            +1
            Quote: Antonov
            . And you would only look for saboteurs with pests and put them to the wall.

            dear, if you carefully read my post, I said that I DO NOT THINK THE REASON TO DECREASE THE QUALIFICATION OF SERVICE PERSONNEL. And therefore, I consider Sabotage to be the most likely reason, but this does not mean that I exclude the option of low-quality components.
            And then put to the wall?
            1. Antonov
              Antonov 21 May 2015 09: 05 New
              0
              Quote: NEXUS

              And then put to the wall?

              Well, what about their ghouls - not to feed them with gingerbread. How was it all the time with the saboteurs: "In the Name of the Revolution ...!" and "According to the laws of wartime ...!"
            2. maai
              maai 21 May 2015 21: 00 New
              0
              Quote: Antonov
              And you would only look for saboteurs with pests and put to the wall.

              Quote: NEXUS
              I think Sabotage is a probable reason. But this does not mean that I exclude the option of low-quality components.
              And here put to the wall?


              Why not!? recourse Maybe diminished arrogant managers and incomprehensible people. Add brains and responsibilities!
          2. valentber
            valentber 20 May 2015 12: 16 New
            -1
            Rogozin everywhere positions himself as a strong and competent leader. And what does he command at all? Instead of clown flights, the NP pole would be better off putting things in order!
        5. The comment was deleted.
      2. sub307
        sub307 19 May 2015 08: 57 New
        +4
        "
        Errors in the production of the Proton-M launch vehicle could have caused it to crash during the May 16 launch.
        This is the opinion of Konstantin Kreidenko, editor of the GLONASS Vestnik.
        "In my opinion, the reason for what happened to the Proton-M launch vehicle is a manufacturing defect. Somewhere during the manufacture of the third stage, there was no appropriate control of technological, installation operations or there was no sufficient control of the materials that were used for the production of components and assemblies of the rocket. The reason must be sought in this ", - said TASS Kreidenko.
        In addition, the expert emphasized, the slow modernization of the ground-based control complex does not allow increasing the amount of observed and processed information from the launch vehicle systems during prelaunch preparations.
        "The operating test equipment of the technical and launch complexes of the cosmodrome is, apparently, an insufficient number of parameters of the rocket and space complex. At the same time, the product is delivered to the cosmodrome several weeks before launch for the necessary checks and tests. During this time, thanks to modern information technologies, it was possible to check the product more thoroughly, to identify defects that were not identified in the manufacturing process, "- explained the agency's interlocutor."
        In general, "this, yes,", and the result - well, "on the face", as they say ....
        1. anip
          anip 19 May 2015 09: 11 New
          +2
          Quote: sub307
          Somewhere during the manufacture of the third stage, there was no appropriate control of technological, installation operations or there was no sufficient control of the materials that were used for the production of components and assemblies of the rocket. The reason must be sought in this, "Kreidenko told TASS.

          The reason must be sought in the standard of living of the working people. There will be normal salaries, there will be another level of quality, then it will be possible to ask.
          1. Cosmos-1869
            Cosmos-1869 19 May 2015 21: 47 New
            +4
            Typical "office hamster" view of things on a paycheck.
            If Korolev, Glushko, Tikhonravov, Yangel, Chelomey worked depending on the salary, we would still be testing the German "V-2", as in 1947.
            1. Elk
              Elk 24 May 2015 08: 01 New
              0
              If Korolev, Glushko, Tikhonravov, Yangel, Chelomei would work depending on salary

              Here you hit the sky with your finger. And twice.
              1) You are confusing modern Russia and the USSR
              2) Salaries in the industry in the USSR were very high + supply.
              This is just your look at the things of a typical office hamster, who believes that a person should plow like a horse, having a salary of koy barely allows you not to die and at the same time announce the hassle to all the management.
          2. valentber
            valentber 20 May 2015 12: 19 New
            0
            Can’t you somehow protect your rights in parallel with quality work?
          3. maai
            maai 21 May 2015 21: 19 New
            0
            Quote: anip
            The reason must be sought in the standard of living of the working people. There will be normal salaries, there will be another level of quality, then it will be possible to ask.


            Regular song: Pay a little - do not work well.
            The usual answer: I do not like to quit. Go where you are better. Otherwise, be kind enough to carry out your duties at a professional level or sit down for negligence and sloppiness. Space - this is not a pan to press in the back of the household!

            So the salary level has nothing to do with it. His work must be done qualitatively with any reward. Or do not do it at all.
            We have a huge mass of beggars (yes, beggars!) Of people who in our rich country are doing their job for a penny qualitatively.
            And the newly minted workers, various drones and "migrant workers" who believe that "small salary" = "lack of responsibility" + "slipshod work", and the nouveau riche chiefs-crisis managers, who believe that if you have a low salary then you are s ** * 0 ** are just parasites, irresponsible people, temporary workers and criminals.

            Don't like the job? Don't like the salary? Well, for heaven’s sake, go where it’s better for you that you sit and moan, and red tape and carelessness produce? Go get rich.

            So either you do quality work - or you sit for negligence. You look over time when there are very few people who want to work for a penny or sit - the state will begin to pay as it should.

            The bosses will fly, the truly guilty and not the "appointed" ones - all at once will begin to return to normal. Theft, bribery and incompetence - these are the cornerstones of failures, especially in a long-established mechanism!
            1. Elk
              Elk 24 May 2015 08: 14 New
              0
              The usual answer: I do not like to quit. Go where you are better.

              Yeah, we also forgot to add that there are many behind the gates. That's just you and people like you forget that they leave and it’s hell when exactly the experts come back.
              We have a huge mass of beggars (yes, beggars!) Of people who in our rich country are doing their job for a penny qualitatively.

              Raise my eyelids, for I have never once seen exactly the quality work of such a contingent. Here either checkers or go. The work of a qualified specialist by definition cannot be cheap. Another conversation is how income distribution occurs.
              Don't like the job? Don't like the salary? Well, for heaven’s sake, go where it’s better for you that you sit and moan, and red tape and carelessness produce? Go get rich.

              Do not cry, poor you are ours (from the "employers" you see, sick). We are already leaving, leaving. Just what will you do when the last hard worker from the USSR dies?
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. anip
        anip 19 May 2015 09: 06 New
        18
        Quote: Starover_Z
        It's a shame if spacecraft accidents are related to the human factor, namely, the drop in staff qualifications ...

        Or maybe it's still easier? Since 1991, people have been told that they need to work more and better, then, they say, you will receive more. The people worked and worked, and the upper echelons (oligarchs, bureaucrats, ministers, administration, etc.) began to receive more and more.
        residents). And people just began to work on the road ..., because what's the point of working hard, anyway, no one will pay more than those who work carelessly next to them, but will pay more to their bosses? People simply became indifferent to the results of their labor, made it for a "tick" and okay. Moreover, the people began to work like this from five years ago, but on the basis of papers and reports everything came out rosy. And now, finally, all these fake "achievements" begin to slowly manifest themselves, because once this should have happened. The fall of missiles is one of the results of Putin's economy, no matter how much more "fun" it gets.
        ..
        Oh and Sanny below indirectly confirmed the same.
      5. kostik1301
        kostik1301 19 May 2015 09: 36 New
        -3
        In the ranks of ROSCOSMOS, "sent Cossacks" have been working for a long time, especially in the management ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. Dart2027
            Dart2027 19 May 2015 10: 39 New
            +5
            Quote: lev1201
            scientist convicted of high treason

            Is there evidence of his innocence? If a person is a scientist, this does not mean that he cannot be a traitor.
            Quote: lev1201
            More junta !!! More war !!!

            Do you not understand what is meant? Let me explain - this is a clear hint that we are so-and-so "occupied Crimea" and are waging a war in "innocent as a lamb" Ukraine.
            Quote: lev1201
            The priest who sprinkled the rocket has already been planted for negligence, I wonder?

            And that rockets fall because they consecrate?
            Quote: lev1201
            Our fathers observed the formation of the space industry in Russia.

            And if you recall how their fathers, and they themselves poured mud on everything that was in the USSR, poured mud on it.

            In general, the article is written in the spirit of Goebbels' precepts - "tell the truth, but not the whole thing."
            1. lev1201
              lev1201 19 May 2015 11: 30 New
              +5
              When in the combat-launch calculation there are as many as 3-4 priests with hairstylists - this, of course, is so Orthodox, spiritual, sobornichnoe ...
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 19 May 2015 12: 17 New
                +2
                Quote: lev1201
                When in the start-up calculation as much as 3-4 priests with hairstyles

                Can I find out the source of information?
                1. DRA-88
                  DRA-88 19 May 2015 14: 53 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Dart2027
                  Can I find out the source of information?

                  Here he is the first pop-navt!
                  He said "Let's go," he waved the Cross ....
                  Before the start, I definitely watched the "White Sun of the Desert" and left an inscription on the door of the psychological relief room ...
                  And it’s funny and sad .......
                  OBSCURANTISM!!!
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 19 May 2015 15: 35 New
                    +4
                    Quote: lev1201
                    in the start-up calculation as much as 3-4 priests with hairstyles

                    You want to say that she was controlled by the clergy?
                    From the fact that the priest came, said prayers and left - the rocket will not fall.
                2. DRA-88
                  DRA-88 19 May 2015 14: 55 New
                  +3
                  The Tale of Priest and his Worker Balda.
                  The official reasons for the incident have not yet been announced. However, at the source level, various versions continue to be called, including negligent sprinkling of a booster rock with holy water and consecration by representatives of the MP of the Russian Orthodox Church.
                  1. Jurkovs
                    Jurkovs 19 May 2015 16: 18 New
                    +3
                    Come Satan ?!
            2. dmb
              dmb 19 May 2015 12: 00 New
              +2
              Yes, they are not good on Echo, but they are not sucking the soil for such articles. but exclusively from government reports, usually victorious. How much relations correspond to the status quo, you can find out even without listening to "Echo".
              1. Dart2027
                Dart2027 19 May 2015 12: 22 New
                +4
                Quote: dmb
                they do not suck from the finger

                And so all the professionals work - a real fact is taken and absolutely left things are screwed to it. Actually, they first ruined RI, and then the USSR. Well, about the collapse of everything now and how it was before - I had to listen from senior colleagues at work about various miracles.
                1. dmb
                  dmb 19 May 2015 13: 48 New
                  +3
                  The trouble is that there are real facts, otherwise they would have remained unemployed. So, if they contribute to the collapse of today's harlot, misunderstood power, it is only to their own detriment. For they are with this power from a single dunghill that destroyed the USSR.
                  1. Dart2027
                    Dart2027 19 May 2015 14: 11 New
                    +2
                    Quote: dmb
                    The trouble is that there are real facts.

                    And such facts will always be. life is not a game on the computer and there will always be accidents, errors, corruption. That's only when someone starts screaming that everything is gone, you need to carefully look at who this person is.
            3. little man
              little man 19 May 2015 13: 01 New
              +2
              If it had not been consecrated, it would have fallen right at the start.
              1. valentber
                valentber 20 May 2015 12: 24 New
                0
                The word "man" is written with E. Learn to write WITHOUT grammatical errors!
            4. Bayonet
              Bayonet 19 May 2015 18: 09 New
              +1
              Quote: Dart2027
              Is there evidence of his innocence? If a person is a scientist, this does not mean that he cannot be a traitor.

              Yevgeny Afanasyev, sentenced to 12,5 years in prison for giving the Chinese special services secret information about the Bulava missile, died in a colony in the Ulyanovsk region.
              In the summer of 2012, the St. Petersburg City Court sentenced two professors of the Baltic State Technical University named after Ustinov "Voenmech" to 12 and 12,5 years in a strict regime colony for providing the Chinese special services with classified information about the Bulava missile. In particular, Afanasyev was sentenced to imprisonment for 12 years and six months, Svyatoslav Bobyshev - 12 years.

              According to the investigation, during a business trip to China, the professors took there "classified information constituting a state secret, where they transferred it to representatives of the Chinese military intelligence for a monetary reward."
              During the announcement of the verdict, the judge noted that the information transmitted to China related to research in relation to the Bulava-30 shipborne missile system and the peculiarities of the missile's movement. The judge said that the data that the convicts transferred to China can now be incorporated into the system for detecting Russian submarines.
            5. maai
              maai 21 May 2015 21: 26 New
              0
              Quote: Dart2027
              Is there evidence of his innocence?

              Yeah !!! The level of legal awareness and logic in society is just off scale.
              I have never heard of the presumption of innocence !?
              Well, open the Code of Criminal Procedure and the Code of Administrative Offenses, to get enlightened, is useful, and most importantly fair!
          2. Uncle
            Uncle 19 May 2015 16: 00 New
            +2
            Quote: lev1201
            Original here - http: //echo.msk

            I did not expect anything else from the echo. Forgot to add that Putin poisoned Novodvorskaya.
        2. valentber
          valentber 20 May 2015 12: 20 New
          0
          This confirms my suspicion that not everything is safe in the Danish kingdom! And where are the services looking? Sawing?
      6. The comment was deleted.
      7. scientist
        scientist 19 May 2015 11: 55 New
        +4
        Quote: Starover_Z
        falling staff qualifications ...

        This is not a drop in qualifications, but a real sabotage, at least in personnel matters. That, in fact, has already become a tradition for "effective managers" of the S. M.V. Khrunichev, who are used to solving problems with the help of corrupt schemes. By the way, after the loss of the Kazakh satellite KazSat-1, thanks to these schemes, which allowed the Khrunichev residents to win the competition from RSC Energia, Kazakhstan did not receive insurance.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. mervino2007
          mervino2007 19 May 2015 13: 20 New
          +2
          Quote: scientist
          This is not a drop in qualifications, but a real diversion

          In such a situation - constant accidents in recent years of vehicles that previously took off normally for decades, it is necessary to increase the volume and quality of pre-start checks of systems and workers. By the way, what is the wage of an assembler? Today.
        3. valentber
          valentber 20 May 2015 12: 29 New
          0
          It's amazing that the industry lasted so long in such conditions. It seems that Rogozin is not the person who will be able to curb this enormous corruption.
      8. Rus2012
        Rus2012 19 May 2015 12: 58 New
        +4
        Quote: Starover_Z
        It's a shame if spacecraft accidents are related to the human factor, namely, the drop in staff qualifications ...


        Not so simple...
        The "production and quality control system" has been lost since the times of the USSR.
        It's all here:
        - The elimination of military representatives (VP) in the workplace, including allies
        - the famous "triple control", which if it remains, it is only formally
        - the general level of staff qualifications is also low

        In these conditions, it is also not necessary to say that "technology tested over the years" is also not necessary, because regular "notices of permission" (simplifying production and expanding tolerances) constantly undermine the quality of the product itself. Those. The 2015 Proton is not the one that was, for example, under the Soviet Union ...
      9. Alexey Boukin
        Alexey Boukin 19 May 2015 13: 41 New
        -1
        It is difficult to justify a series of unsuccessful launches by the low qualifications of the personnel. I think the reason is different. And in what exactly, you need to carefully understand so as not to "find" the next switchman.
    2. mak210
      mak210 19 May 2015 06: 54 New
      21
      Have you tried to pay the salaries of the hard workers? Some pensioners stayed with files there, young people for that kind of money plus the regime did not want to work. But the top managers with golden parachutes ...
      1. tolmir
        tolmir 19 May 2015 07: 28 New
        17
        Recently, they started talking about raising the prestige of working professions. Even contests are held. But the result is zero !!! And it will remain so until the salary is scanty. You correctly named the main problem. Today's gap in the assessment of labor looks simply immoral!
        1. sub307
          sub307 19 May 2015 08: 59 New
          +2
          Exactly - "they started talking" ... only, but it was necessary to act "the day before yesterday" .... And we "reap" right now.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Uzzy
          Uzzy 19 May 2015 10: 10 New
          +6
          Correctly! There have always been many young people with huge minds and potentials in our country, but no one will work for a penny. The result - former Soviet and current scientists who left the country, now Nobel laureates or developers of the latest technologies in any industry, with a bag of money. This is because they are not indifferent to anyone!
          Ps As long as in our country there are Serdyukovs, Secheni, etc. (lovers of grabbing money in their pocket, and not for the good of the country) - this will continue!
      2. anip
        anip 19 May 2015 09: 11 New
        +6
        Quote: mak210
        Have you tried to pay the salaries of the hard workers?

        It seems that the "bumps" did not have such a thought.
      3. Alex rus
        Alex rus 19 May 2015 09: 28 New
        +7
        Top managers do not forget to conclude contracts that are beneficial for them for the purchase of second-rate microcircuits for control systems (the quality is questionable). This is how we live ... the rocket fell, the commission created top managers were transferred from one place to another ... that's just for all the time, except for layoffs, not a single "landing" of any top manager.
        1. valentber
          valentber 20 May 2015 12: 34 New
          0
          Correctly! Impunity is universal and universal! Stalin is not enough!
      4. valentber
        valentber 20 May 2015 12: 32 New
        +1
        The salary should be decent. But even with a high salary, young people will not immediately start "plowing"! The skill is developed over the years!
    3. siberalt
      siberalt 19 May 2015 07: 03 New
      0
      Already suggested that some kind of bearing failed. The roofing felts were put in the wrong place again during assembly, the roofing felts are Chinese quality.
      1. saag
        saag 19 May 2015 09: 15 New
        +4
        Quote: siberalt
        roofing felts quality Chinese.

        whether metal from Severstal :-)
        1. Zuborez
          Zuborez 19 May 2015 17: 01 New
          0
          Quote: saag
          whether metal from Severstal :-)

          Severstal makes tanks out of tanks laughing not so bad.
      2. Erg
        Erg 19 May 2015 09: 20 New
        +2
        Yes, Lavrenty Pavlovich would have something to work on. He would show them "management".
    4. Serafim-k
      Serafim-k 19 May 2015 07: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: VEKT
      Missiles fall like leaves in the fall, and not any new ones, but the Proton, time-tested. Maybe it's time to draw conclusions.

      It is strange that they have not yet been made .. belay , and if you look at the big picture as a whole, it turns out that the Vasilyevs and Serdyukovs have not yet been extinct ... drinks
    5. VseDoFeNi
      VseDoFeNi 19 May 2015 07: 14 New
      0
      The case smells like kerosene, that is, the Hangar and the Vostochny spaceport.
      1. valentber
        valentber 20 May 2015 12: 35 New
        +1
        I'm afraid it will be even worse there. There was information in the media that the strikers after the payment of their salaries were FIRED right there!
        1. Elk
          Elk 24 May 2015 08: 28 New
          0
          There was information in the media that the strikers after the payment of their salaries were FIRED right there!

          Ordinary situation. Bydlo, outraged by his position, should be punished! And then ish, the owners took the fashion to argue!
          The longer I live, the more I become convinced that our ancestors were not so excited in 1917 ...
    6. Sanny
      Sanny 19 May 2015 07: 58 New
      +3
      In general, I'm surprised what they wrote about the fall, I was waiting for another r about "flightless penguin f35" laughing
    7. Ascetic
      Ascetic 19 May 2015 08: 19 New
      11
      Interestingly, this 2013 assembly rocket was originally intended to launch a Russian satellite
      Express. Now the situation in the space industry is not easy. The leadership is changing, there are reductions, ineffective areas are closed, projects are transferred from department to department and from plant to plant. On Khrunichev, where Protons are assembled, rumors have been circulating for a long time that the plant will be closed altogether, production will be moved to Omsk, and the territory will be handed over for elite construction - Moscow is the same. Mergers and acquisitions are coming - these are the consequences of the consolidation of the URCS. And if earlier three factories produced three types, for example, star sensors, now we can expect that the sensor will be left alone, and the specialists left without work will be offered to move (at best), or just go outside. In the face of such career prospects, motivation and work culture do not improve in any way. And if the locksmith did NOT even deliberately brush a handful of metal sawdust into the fuel line with his sleeve, he will not deliberately reach to get them - the back is not official, if tomorrow you have to go to work as a loader on the market, now it is better to take care of yourself. crying Americans calculated that over the past six years there have been 13 major accidents in the Russian cosmonautics, 20 spacecraft have been completely lost, 3 satellites have been put off the wrong way. And these are “adult” satellites, worth tens and hundreds of millions of dollars, not some cubs there. In the USA, launches are one and a half times less frequent, and accident rates are four times lower. It’s just that, the most obvious example.
      1. anip
        anip 19 May 2015 09: 15 New
        +6
        Quote: Ascetic
        And if a locksmith didn’t even purposely wave a handful of metal sawdust into the fuel line with his sleeve, he wouldn’t specially get them out - his back wasn’t bribed, if tomorrow you had to go to work as a loader to the market, now it’s better to save yourself.

        Quite right, the working people are already tired of the tales that, they say, "you will work better, you will earn more."
      2. Erg
        Erg 19 May 2015 09: 45 New
        +2
        Yes, we urgently need to turn to the American experience. Almost 50 years ago, they were not just from the Earth - they "took off" from the Moon. And not a single failure. These are the masters wassat
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. mervino2007
        mervino2007 19 May 2015 13: 33 New
        +1
        Quote: Ascetic
        over the past six years, there have been 13 major accidents in the Russian cosmonautics, 20 spacecraft have been completely lost, 3 satellites have been put off the wrong way

        The process is led by people who do not match the complexity of technology. The beginning of everything is in the enormous difference between the wages of managers and technologists. We need a person who can break this ratio, redistribute money in favor of assembly \ technical control.
        1. Elk
          Elk 24 May 2015 08: 33 New
          0
          Need a man who can break this ratio

          Alas, the "vertical" will never allow Stalin's reincarnation.
    8. avt
      avt 19 May 2015 09: 11 New
      +4
      Quote: VEKT
      Missiles fall like leaves in the fall, and not any new ones, but the Proton, time-tested.

      Nowhere is newer - with components from the time of manufacture of the abolition of military acceptance. One hundred pounds of shit collected.
      Quote: Starover_Z
      It's a shame if spacecraft accidents are related to the human factor, namely, the drop in staff qualifications ...

      And with what else ??? Martians shit with the CIA? wassat
      Quote: NEXUS
      . But when the Proton falls THREE contract, you can’t hide it with qualifications, and I think that we can talk about sabotage.

      Quote: NEXUS
      . But when the Proton falls THREE contract, you can’t hide it with qualifications, and I think that we can talk about sabotage.

      laughing I ask you not to express yourself! Top manager - our everything! Not a 37 year old!
    9. Tambov Wolf
      Tambov Wolf 19 May 2015 10: 52 New
      +4
      Who should draw conclusions? We have not 37 years, but 2015, the heyday of liberal shit democracy, led by the Liberal.
      1. Tambov Wolf
        Tambov Wolf 19 May 2015 11: 22 New
        +4
        And one more "pleasant" news. The President of the Human Rights Council included the "respected" granny Lyudmila Alekseeva by the president. http://news.rambler.ru/politics/30249965/?track=main_newslist And you're talking about some "Protons". But who needs them.
    10. aleks 62
      aleks 62 19 May 2015 10: 59 New
      +2
      ..... and time-tested Proton. .....

      ..... He has a new overclocking unit .... There were no problems with the old ..... And there are always some adventures with this ..... bully
    11. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 19 May 2015 12: 35 New
      +2
      Quote: VEKT
      Rockets fall like leaves in the fall

      said famously! Do not work in the newspaper? http://newsland.com/news/detail/id/1207153/
      Technology fails at all.
      Of course, the qualifications of personnel have fallen, the machinery is worn out, but loud statements are inappropriate all the same IMHO.
      The problem is that they again screw up "Vanya", or "Dzhamshut", and not the one who invests money in the offshore
    12. opus
      opus 19 May 2015 14: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: VEKT
      Missiles fall like leaves in the fall, and not any new ones, but the time-tested Proton

      Nonsense
      The percentage of unsuccessful starts on 2013 even lowerthan during the 1957-72 period in the USSR.
      In Russia, the percentage of unsuccessful launches at the level of 5-6%, then it was already 13,5%!



      Detailed failure statistics for the last 20 years:

      1992-94 - 152, -> 3 unsuccessful (2%)
      1995-99 - 142, -> 12 unsuccessful (8,5%)
      2000-05 - 150, -> 10 unsuccessful (6,7%)
      2006-10 - 141, -> 6 unsuccessful (4,3%)
      2010-13 - 103, -> 8 unsuccessful (7,8%)
      5% failures are the standard norm for space launches around the world.






      Number of launches by year

      1. Cossack Ermak
        Cossack Ermak 19 May 2015 16: 03 New
        0
        Quote: opus
        5% failures are the standard norm for space launches around the world.

        Only China has suffered only one "failure." The European Union is not a single one.
        1. opus
          opus 19 May 2015 17: 07 New
          0
          Quote: Cossack Ermak
          Only China has suffered only one "failure." The European Union has not a single "failure".

          The law of transition of quantitative changes into qualitative ones in dialectical materialism is the universal law of the development of nature, the material world, human society and thought / F. Engels as a result of the interpretation of the logic of G. Hegel and the philosophical works of K. Marx.
          1. China suffered TOTAL (already) 11 failures, with 216 starts (MINER)



          "fresh"

          Quote: Cossack Ermak
          just one "failure"

          ???????????????????

          will make launches as much as we 3204 (on 2014) -LOOK

          2. Europe ... there’s nothing to talk about (244 start 16 are abnormal)
          see p1
          / compilation of popular tables, basic Gunter's Space Page, + other sources /
          Quote: Cossack Ermak
          The European Union is not one.

          "tales" of little-informed "specialists" like Rogozin.


          Russia for all time launched 987 408 t total starting mass aircraft 3204 launch vehicles, of which 161 launch was unsuccessful.

          For 1957 − 2014 into space was launched 5424 rockets, of them 347 did not reach orbit. The starting mass of the launched missiles is 1 777 537 tons, of the missed ones - 88 914 tons.
    13. Alex rus
      Alex rus 19 May 2015 14: 17 New
      +1
      Rogozin pointed out one of the reasons for missile launch failures is the moral decay of top managers ... I think these top managers should not be fired ... they should be planted.
    14. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 19 May 2015 17: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: VEKT
      Missiles fall like leaves in the fall, and not any new ones, but the Proton, time-tested. Maybe it's time to draw conclusions.

      Rogozin announced the initiation of 8 criminal cases of theft in the amount of 9 billion rubles at the center of Khrunichev.
      http://www.kp.ru/online/news/2059611/?geoid=28&cp=0#comment
    15. prosto_rgb
      prosto_rgb 20 May 2015 04: 00 New
      0
      Some comments are not numerous, compared with the first post on the site about the fall of the pH.
      What is there to argue then?
      The firmament decides. hi
      Or a little more expanded:
      Since, instead of astronomy, the law of God is taught in schools, the rockets simply hit the firmament of heaven ...
      What does a rocket not take off?
      And taking off - falls?
      Below the devils do not let go
      Above is God with a lamp!
      PS
      Here, who cares, links to articles on this topic:
      http://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/2253603.html
      (inside link to the article for 2008.)
      http://m-kalashnikov.livejournal.com/2255548.html
    16. maai
      maai 21 May 2015 20: 53 New
      0
      Quote: VEKT
      Missiles fall like leaves in the fall, and not any new ones, but the Proton, time-tested. Maybe it's time to draw conclusions.

      "conclusions" it is high time to plant! Tea is not guided by saucepans and basins.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. shishakova
    shishakova 19 May 2015 06: 50 New
    +2
    It is unlikely that a professional can fix something wrong. In addition, he is not alone there.
    Unfortunately, this is not the first case.
    Considering that, as Rostislav Ishchenko said, “Russia is already at war,” we are unlikely to know the truth.
    However, I want to believe that our space activities will continue to be successful.
    1. shishakova
      shishakova 19 May 2015 07: 27 New
      0
      Quote: shishakova
      However, I want to believe that our space activities will continue to be successful.

      Perhaps in the days of the USSR there were similar situations, too, but they were not written about.
      1. anip
        anip 19 May 2015 09: 16 New
        +5
        Quote: shishakova
        Perhaps in the days of the USSR there were similar situations, too, but they were not written about.

        There were, but not so much. And then this technique was new, but now, it would seem, well-tried and tested is falling.
      2. podpolkovnik
        podpolkovnik 19 May 2015 10: 00 New
        +3
        Quote: shishakova
        Perhaps in the days of the USSR there were similar situations, too, but they were not written about.

        Not sure about the USSR, but on Baikonur from 1995 to 2006 - I can on my fingers one hand(!) count.
        EMNIP, Soyuz in 1996, with a military satellite, and Zenit with Tselina a couple of times ... it seems that's all.
        But about "Proton" - this in general I don’t remember ...
        Because, like control, control and control again ...
        As now - I don’t know, I became quite far from this.
    2. Elk
      Elk 24 May 2015 08: 43 New
      0
      It is unlikely that a professional can fix something wrong.

      Humanum errarum est. So everything can be. Especially when a person’s head is full of questions on how to pay a mortgage, pay for children’s studies, pay for treatment of your beloved mother-in-law, and after that also don’t stretch your legs ...
  4. sherik
    sherik 19 May 2015 06: 51 New
    12
    Skilled old people retire and unfortunately no one to replace them. Here are the results
    1. anip
      anip 19 May 2015 09: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Sherik
      Skilled old people retire and unfortunately no one to replace them.

      And who will go to work at the plant for "good" salaries?
    2. gladcu2
      gladcu2 19 May 2015 18: 21 New
      +3
      The level of responsibility of old people is 10 times higher than that of young people. They were brought up in this way at school, in the family, at work. Films, Soviet songs. Download retro songs. Listen. But not "Time Machine" is heavy country folk music.

      And modern youth brought up by the phrase.

      " Nothing personal just business."
  5. saag
    saag 19 May 2015 06: 53 New
    +6
    Avtovaz ended up becoming Renault-Nissan with an import manager. How interesting will this “space” story end?
    1. Zuborez
      Zuborez 19 May 2015 17: 07 New
      0
      On the website of Khrunichev some commission on privatization is present.
  6. KOH
    KOH 19 May 2015 06: 53 New
    +2
    I don’t know, but it seems to me that this is sabotage ...
    1. podpolkovnik
      podpolkovnik 19 May 2015 10: 03 New
      +2
      Quote: CON
      I don’t know, but it seems to me that this is sabotage ...
  7. exalex2
    exalex2 19 May 2015 06: 54 New
    +8
    It's not about missiles, not about people, or rather, not only about them. The trouble is education. A whole generation of ignoramuses, managers and accountants. now it is necessary to educate a whole generation of workers without the USE in their heads, but in the "old" way, in the Soviet way. Otherwise, it will only get worse, you don't even have to guess
    1. anip
      anip 19 May 2015 09: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: exalex2
      A whole generation of ignoramuses, managers and accountants. now it is necessary to raise a whole generation of workers without the USE in their heads, but in the "old" way, in the Soviet way.

      So it is necessary not only to raise a generation of workers, but also to PAY them a normal salary, and not to make it appear that the salary is already good. In the meantime, the workers will not have a really decent salary, while the oligarchy will receive millions a day, while this Putin’s economy will be
      Quote: exalex2
      it will only get worse, you can’t even guess
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. 16112014nk
      16112014nk 19 May 2015 14: 47 New
      0
      Yes, these same rockets stumble upon the firmament of heaven. What is it, any graduate with the exam can prove to you!
  8. midashko
    midashko 19 May 2015 06: 56 New
    +4
    The industry is in crisis, that’s understandable. Just financial injections cannot solve this problem. Systematic work is needed starting with training and reviving related industries such as electronics and much more. Interestingly, but besides this, sabotage is being considered?
    1. RU-Officer
      RU-Officer 19 May 2015 07: 14 New
      +4
      ...and much more...

      It seems that the Specialists are not zealously modifying ... hi After all, if the "Protons" fall with such persistence, does it mean that someone needs it? bully
  9. lotar
    lotar 19 May 2015 07: 00 New
    +6
    These and other events, in particular the chaos at the Vostochny cosmodrome under construction, are links in the same chain. And as a rule, it breaks where the link is weaker. It’s just that the human factor is different for the human factor, since if it’s the fault of the collecting engineer, it’s one thing, and if this is the result of financial fraud of the responsible persons when purchasing various parts that have been accepted only on paper, then this is completely different.
    1. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 19 May 2015 14: 05 New
      0
      Quote: lotar
      if this is the result of financial fraud of responsible persons when purchasing various parts that have passed acceptance only on paper

      you yourself answered the question, then you can not dig (old Ockham)
  10. Vityok
    Vityok 19 May 2015 07: 08 New
    +5
    Once an accident, the second is a pattern. Here are the consequences of the 90s. We need professionals and not "managers" We need to increase the personal responsibility of everyone, from the bottom to the top managers.
  11. Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 19 May 2015 07: 11 New
    +3
    Children of the exam came to production. The results are obvious. In other industries, everything is not so obvious, but the situation is not better.
    1. anip
      anip 19 May 2015 09: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Mikhail M
      In other industries, everything is not so obvious, but the situation is not better.

      Yes, soon and in other industries will be more and more troubles to appear.
  12. kursk87
    kursk87 19 May 2015 07: 33 New
    +1
    Rocket engineering is that area of ​​production where errors should be excluded. All components should be only domestic production, of proper quality. Particular attention should be paid to the training of engineers and workers in this industry.
  13. Penetrator
    Penetrator 19 May 2015 07: 43 New
    +1
    For a month, two spacecraft accidents due to engine failure. Both are made at the Voronezh mechanical plant. Coincidence?
  14. Alexy
    Alexy 19 May 2015 07: 57 New
    +1
    Already very often recently accidents and this is all against the backdrop of international tension. I do not believe in marriage or negligence. Too many degrees of verification and control. As the leader of all peoples said: any problem always has a name, a surname and a middle name.
    1. anip
      anip 19 May 2015 09: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexy
      As the leader of all peoples said: any problem always has a name, a surname and a middle name.

      It seems that Lavrenty Pavlovich said: "Every mistake has a surname, name and patronymic."
      The truth is still attributed to Lazar Moiseyevich Kaganovich: "Every accident has a name, patronymic and last name."
  15. Cossack Ermak
    Cossack Ermak 19 May 2015 08: 23 New
    -1
    I think this is a diversion.
  16. Dwarfik
    Dwarfik 19 May 2015 08: 30 New
    +1
    Quote: CON
    I don’t know, but it seems to me that this is sabotage ...

    I think there is a "gray hand"! Qualification determines the ability to do something at the proper level, and then either marriage or sabotage is systematic! And again step 3, maybe it's time to narrow the circle of faces.
  17. Russian_Bear
    Russian_Bear 19 May 2015 08: 33 New
    0
    Hmm, survived.
    Two accidents in one month, well, how can that be?
    If we continue in the same spirit, we may lose the title of "space power"!
  18. The comment was deleted.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  19. fa2998
    fa2998 19 May 2015 09: 07 New
    0
    Quote: mak210
    Have you tried to pay the salaries of the hard workers? Some pensioners stayed with files there, young people for that kind of money plus the regime did not want to work. But the top managers with golden parachutes ...

    Okay, the plumber put the tap incorrectly, a leak has formed, he works in the housing office for 8000 rubles. But this is the SPACE INDUSTRY, for sure the salary is higher. And the "engineers" probably collect such a thing. Maybe the training, technical knowledge fell? Then where is the numerous check? I also want to say - Insurers will soon stop insuring our missiles, or will sharply raise prices for such services. Insurance is not a charity, and missiles fall regularly. hi
    1. Elk
      Elk 24 May 2015 08: 52 New
      0
      Probably a bigger salary.

      Well, 20-30 sput. Hardly more. Just do not compare, please, the qualifications of a housing engineer and rocket engineer.
  20. Internal combustion engine
    Internal combustion engine 19 May 2015 09: 11 New
    0
    I consider the main version of sabotage, sabotage ordered from abroad. Medvedev is frightening with the ruble, but not with the ruble, but with the restriction of freedom for at least 10 years. Billions of people's rubles are scattered in the wind. A fine of 50-100 thousand rubles will not frighten someone who for 5-10 thousand dollars pours metal shavings into the fuel line or deliberately cleans the joints poorly, referring to "fatigue" or "oversight". The link of direct executors must be covered in full, and not just managers. It is much easier, cheaper and more efficient for foreign special services to negotiate with a simple worker than with a soggy engineer.
    1. anip
      anip 19 May 2015 09: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: ICE
      Medvedev fears the ruble

      Who did he intimidate there? As the top rowing loot, and rowing. It looks like Medvedev's "ruble scarecrows" are being fully realized on workers.
  21. Lindon
    Lindon 19 May 2015 09: 31 New
    +2
    Everyone already understands - the crisis got to the holy of holies of the Soviet cosmonautics.
    Proton is a Soviet rocket where reliability comes first.
    The proton will be replaced by the Hangar as soon as it passes all the test tests.
    The trouble is that the Vostochny spaceport is far from complete and the Angara will wait.
    Meanwhile, Falcon 9 is being collected on the assembly line and the cost of 60 million from 100 million of the cheapest Proton.
    Do not be arrogant, but learn to make rockets with low cost.
    1. Zuborez
      Zuborez 19 May 2015 17: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Lindon
      Do not be arrogant, but learn to make rockets with low cost.

      R-7? It seems they were able to before.
  22. anip
    anip 19 May 2015 09: 35 New
    +2
    Quote: Lindon
    The proton will be replaced by the Hangar as soon as it passes all the test tests.

    Where is the guarantee that "Angara" will not fall as well as "Proton"?
  23. intsurfer
    intsurfer 19 May 2015 09: 43 New
    0
    medicine with education has already been nailed, now someone's greedy hands have reached space. :( No matter how they scolded Yeltsin and Gaidar, in those years the military-industrial complex lived relatively normally and the missiles did not fall twice a month. And, by the way, the promising "Angara" is also from the 90s.
  24. Yun Klob
    Yun Klob 19 May 2015 09: 49 New
    +2
    Quote: VEKT
    Missiles fall like leaves in the fall, and not any new ones, but the Proton, time-tested. Maybe it's time to draw conclusions.

    It's okay, they were insured. Although of course you can change some migrant workers to others. Not to hire expensive professionals, moreover, checked by the FSB (what do we have, the USSR in the yard?), In fact.
    1. podpolkovnik
      podpolkovnik 19 May 2015 10: 07 New
      0
      Quote: Yoon Klob
      It's okay, they were insured.

      Aha
      "Kind" uncle - the insurer will take money and put it out of his pocket just like that ....
  25. Caduc
    Caduc 19 May 2015 10: 13 New
    0
    Under the NKVD and the KGB, this would not have happened.
  26. sds87
    sds87 19 May 2015 10: 21 New
    0
    I fully admit that sabotage is taking place. Amer profitable to remove us from this market. But I also know for sure that you cannot make a feeder for fat uncles from the profiling areas. And the latest negative cases related to the space industry in terms of wages of workers show that the "effective" managers of Russian capitalism simply rob and destroy everything they can reach. Effectively destroy industry by industry.
  27. Justme
    Justme 19 May 2015 10: 27 New
    10
    When I entered the space industry in 1983, it already smelled of rot.
    The governing elite was frankly fixated on inter-clan games and hanging out at the ministry.
    Question - And who will redesign the engine block 17B14?
    Since everyone wanted then on vacation - the project fell on me - yesterday's student. And without any special support, I made it.
    But this is wrong (this is the look of today's professional). Where are these famous mentor leaders - Queens of the space industry?
    I made the project as a whole not bad - in comparison with others, I did not have a trach-droma in the workshop.
    But this is very bad - there is no noise around you - there is no career growth ..
    That is - what you select - you get
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 19 May 2015 18: 32 New
      +1
      Yes, there was such a thing. And immorality and careers were present. I confirm that I myself met with a similar one. But there were mentors. A project, of course, and the young could do. But the experienced one will always correct those subtleties that the young are not aware of. Otherwise, it will not fly, but crawl.
      1. Justme
        Justme 19 May 2015 20: 32 New
        +2
        The men and leaders of the lower level were different - and good and vice versa ..
        But I really didn’t have real mentors, although I myself sometimes helped the young ones ..
        One of the most serious claims to the space industry - I didn’t see at the top of the leadership (OKB Torch, NIIFI) technical leaders as in the movie about Korolev - those who led them could see the technical essence of the problems, create a climate of communication between like-minded people, would have physical and mathematical depth of vision.
        And what flourishes when there is such funding and there is no understanding - what is actually achieved there is done and achieved by technology below - this is the topic of a very big discussion
        1. Justme
          Justme 21 May 2015 12: 08 New
          0
          Why not speak more openly
          In the space industry, there has always been a whole bunch of serious problems in relationships. This is between specialists and managers, the top and bottom of the hierarchy, between organizational bureaucracy and the logic of solving problems.
          between the talented and the gray mass (first of all - the official technical "geniuses")
          The fact of these problems is ignored and the problems are growing.
          For example, I found a simple solution for myself - a couple of years ago I left to work in a private company.
  28. alone
    alone 19 May 2015 11: 08 New
    0
    The spaceport guard is to blame !! Hang the guard wassat
  29. jungler
    jungler 19 May 2015 11: 18 New
    +3
    You can quote the opinions of 2 people: Keldysh "Frequent change of leadership ... This is the loss of the technological production system ..." Mikoyan: "Every accident has a surname, name and patronymic ..."
  30. Stalnov I.P.
    Stalnov I.P. 19 May 2015 12: 09 New
    -1
    It has long been necessary to check that the snot chews, and they all fall, moreover, they fall with enviable constancy and no one draws conclusions, this suggests that there is simply wrecking, as well as the irresponsibility of the relevant services.
  31. loaln
    loaln 19 May 2015 12: 42 New
    0
    A complete bummer in a continuous fog with the dances of super-managers around an invisible bonfire of enthusiasm and competence.
    The lack of information, the occurrence of malfunctions at the junction of the last stage of separation from the launch vehicle of the upper stage or payload is alarming. Take a look at telemetry. It looks like its volume is not enough for analysis. Why not enough? Eliminate this problem, clarity will hatch. Maybe TM is first "cut down", and then all sorts of "miracles" happen? Then where is the triple control of control programs? Etc.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. mervino2007
      mervino2007 19 May 2015 13: 43 New
      0
      Quote: loaln
      Watch telemetry

      What about external influences? It can not be amerskoy EW?
  32. arlekin
    arlekin 19 May 2015 14: 14 New
    +3
    Blaming everything on saboteurs, pests, and spies is easy, pleasant, and patriotic; we have an envoy who has already accused the opposition in forest fires. However, the reality is that the process of devastation in the country is going on in all areas, just in space it leads to results that are very difficult to hide. I recently spoke with a friend who teaches at a medical university, according to him, they have a huge problem with teachers, there is simply no one to teach students. Old teachers leave, from life or to retirement, either nobody is in their place or people come, it is not known how (bought, found, presented) who received diplomas in the 90s. What they will teach students, and what will be the next generation of doctors is easy to guess.
    1. Alexy
      Alexy 19 May 2015 14: 38 New
      0
      We still have to pay a lot for the chaos of the 90s
  33. _my opinion
    _my opinion 19 May 2015 14: 48 New
    0
    read in the news:
    "Rogozin: Eight criminal cases have been brought up against former employees of the Khrunichev Center"
    MOSCOW, May 19. / TASS /. Eight criminal cases were brought against former employees of the Center. Khrunichev, damage to the enterprise by more than 9 billion rubles was revealed, Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin said at a plenary meeting in the State Duma on Tuesday.
    According to him, the deplorable state of the enterprise led to the need for a financial recovery program for the Center for 2015-2020. The program provides for financial support in the amount of 37,5 billion rubles, the conclusion of long-term contracts. In addition, the Center changed its leadership.
    "In the course of joint work with the FSB, the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the Investigative Committee of Russia, eight criminal cases have been opened. Acts of fraud, abuse of authority, forgery of documents have been uncovered, which resulted in economic damage of over 9 billion rubles to the enterprise," Rogozin said.
    "Given the high moral decay of the bosses, one should not be surprised by the poor quality of the products," he said.
    According to the Deputy Prime Minister, the low quality of the products of the Center. Khrunichev led to accidents of the Proton-M launch vehicle, which reduced its competitiveness in the world market.
    Rogozin also noted that the receivables of the Center. Khrunichev is 7,3 billion rubles.
    "As a result of the inventory of the company's assets, uncollectible receivables were revealed, which did not bring results, but expenses, shortages in materials and fixed assets, totaling 7,3 billion rubles," Rogozin said.

    taken here: http://tass.ru/kosmos/1978680
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. AlexA
    AlexA 19 May 2015 17: 23 New
    +4
    Quote: NEXUS
    can talk about sabotage

    Hardly. I worked for 35 years in rocket propulsion. Not from other people's words I can judge the required qualifications of manufacturers. This is the cornerstone of space rocket technology. For example, ISO-9001 quality standards, this is a simplified version of the quality assurance system that existed in Soviet rocket science since the beginning of the 60s. And now, again not from other people's words, I can argue that this SYSTEM has been lost over the past 23 years. The training system is destroyed. So all accidents are UNDERSTANDINGly vulgar systemic inability. The design of the rocket - nothing to do with. For 50 years of its use, all the shortcomings have been eliminated.
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 19 May 2015 17: 46 New
      0
      Quote: AlexA
      So all accidents are UNDERSTANDINGly vulgar systemic inability.

      that is, another year or two ago, there was a skill and Protons took off regularly, and then suddenly all the staff and specialists began to grow their hands from the wrong place somehow and the carriers began to fall?
      The question is, a year or two or three years ago, the training system was different or 5 years ago? And then the very "run-in" carrier suddenly began to fail systems and as a result, unsuccessful launches.
  36. AleXL-77
    AleXL-77 19 May 2015 17: 39 New
    +1
    Somewhere in the region of Plesetsk ...
  37. Falcon5555
    Falcon5555 19 May 2015 18: 47 New
    +1
    Workers and engineers, as well as quality controllers in the production of these missiles, are probably very tired of making them. 35 years of doing the same thing. For example, a 35-year-old worker tightens the same nuts, the controller observes and checks what he is checking there - they are probably tightened. And it's 35 years old! All brands of cars, household appliances and technologies, like all life, have already changed. The state is gone! But the rocket and the work are still the same. And young people cannot be interested in it. Maybe only if the salary is very good, so that you can come to it on foreign cars, and leave with relief upon a call - like "here's another day has passed - well, x .. with him." But she's hardly so good there.
  38. gladcu2
    gladcu2 19 May 2015 19: 02 New
    0
    Salary growth cannot be solved. Since there is no guarantee of feedback. They will take the salary, but no one will work.
    We need a serious set of measures to increase motivation. And who will do it? Clear pepper, top managers. Who have already received their salary and will not work to work themselves.

    Need project Yezhov 2.0, for rough cleaning. And then the Beria 2.0 project for fine, filigree polishing. So to speak, the carrot and stick method.

    And yet, probably the time has come when the GDP should take care of the fate of the DM, if not quiet, then at least with confiscation. For the slip in the work of the government is already an arrow, those are still Soviet tires.
    1. Falcon5555
      Falcon5555 19 May 2015 19: 21 New
      -1
      Stalinism is the last refuge of Satanists.
  39. Bayonet
    Bayonet 19 May 2015 19: 10 New
    0
    Beautiful picture ....
  40. kugelblitz
    kugelblitz 19 May 2015 19: 33 New
    +2
    I could not stand it and decided to register specially ...
    In general, I had a suspicion that GKNPC them. MV Khrunicheva simply drowns Proton-M. Well, judge for yourself that there is theirs A5 Angara, which they decided to move for a while.
    In addition, few people noticed that Angara just flew after a series of unsuccessful launches of the Proton in 2010-14. And the emergency protection system "proved to be excellent." And after some time, a heavier version flew, which should directly replace the Proton-M.
    Secondly, the RD-170 engine family is being promoted, as well as a new spacecraft and other whistle-flickers ... As mentioned above, they want to get rid of the Proton assembly shops.
    Those. it's just that Proton-M is TURNING - it interferes with EVERYONE. And how "successfully" the "sanctions" with Yuzhmash arrived to lobby Angara A3. And "in time" they cut down Rus-M, limiting themselves to the option of modernizing the old Union, which is kept solely as a backup option.
    Threat this is of course only a private opinion and no more.
  41. LM66
    LM66 19 May 2015 20: 15 New
    +1
    Quote: tolmir
    will remain as long as the salary is scanty

    I read an article about a recruiting agency, when asked what their most difficult vacancy was, they answered that they needed a milling cutter for some kind of super machine, a salary of 230 rubles could not be found with suitable qualifications
    1. gladcu2
      gladcu2 19 May 2015 20: 50 New
      0
      And where are the old machinists delhi?

      They lie about the salary.
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 20 May 2015 06: 26 New
        0
        Quote: gladcu2
        And where are the old machinists delhi?

        The old one is apparently out of date - in the sense of aging. smile
  42. Dan Slav
    Dan Slav 19 May 2015 21: 08 New
    +3
    On joke.ru they wrote:
    Just a couple of reforms in education and not only Protons will fall, but also lampposts!
    And in general, this is correct!
  43. Cosmos-1869
    Cosmos-1869 19 May 2015 22: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: JustMe
    When I entered the space industry in 1983, it already smelled of rot.
    The governing elite was frankly fixated on inter-clan games and hanging out at the ministry.
    Question - And who will redesign the engine block 17B14?
    Since everyone wanted then on vacation - the project fell on me - yesterday's student. And without any special support, I made it.
    But this is wrong (this is the look of today's professional). Where are these famous mentor leaders - Queens of the space industry?
    I made the project as a whole not bad - in comparison with others, I did not have a trach-droma in the workshop.
    But this is very bad - there is no noise around you - there is no career growth ..
    That is - what you select - you get

    You are a bit out of luck. I came to the space industry in 1986, and much of what you write about was also there. And a new project + maintenance of the current ones also loaded me.
    However, with the mentors lucky. So once at a time it is not necessary. The enterprises were different and different traditions.
  44. lilian
    lilian 19 May 2015 22: 30 New
    +3
    I do not think that such a small salary is for those who work in the space industry. Unless someone believes that all these workers should be millionaires.

    To be honest, the thought of sabotage or sabotage occurred to me when, one after another, accidents began to occur. But without any known facts, one can only gossip about how likely this is.

    And the education system in all CIS countries (maybe this is not so in Belarus) is degrading. I affirm as a person who worked a couple of years at school. Many seminars, advanced training courses, round tables, empty chatter are held so that more intelligent children become, and the result is 0! And the reason is unknown. Maybe it is simple - such a life has become.
    Kenedy, when he was presented with the result of an investigation into the reason for the withdrawal of the world's first Sputnik by the USSR, said: "If we do not immediately get down to physics and mathematics, we will have to study the Russian language."
    1. maai
      maai 21 May 2015 21: 35 New
      0
      Quote: lilian
      To be honest, the thought of sabotage or sabotage occurred to me when, one after another, accidents began to occur. But without any known facts, one can only gossip about how likely this is.

      Sloppiness and inaction are also crimes. Indirect intent. Sabotage through their encouragement is sabotage!
  45. twincam
    twincam 19 May 2015 23: 11 New
    0
    well, the reform of Roscomos has already begun.
  46. LM66
    LM66 20 May 2015 21: 41 New
    0
    Quote: lilian
    "If we do not immediately get down to physics and mathematics, we will have to start learning Russian."

    And you ask how many schools Google has closed in Russia over the past 10 years, and for laughs how many churches opened
    1. maai
      maai 21 May 2015 21: 32 New
      0
      Quote: LM66
      And you ask how many schools Google has closed in Russia over the past 10 years, and for laughs how many churches opened

      With such an education system as it is today, one has to rely only on the fear of these freaks before the final judgment.
  47. remy
    remy 1 June 2015 22: 46 New
    0
    sabotage, definitely! just whose question is it ?! most likely, our knight's move is so long and long ....
    so conceived!