Military Review

Why is the "Armata" no twin machine gun?

103
Unlike most tanks world, with 2, or even 3 machine guns, the Russian T-14 is armed with only one 7,62 mm machine gun mounted on the roof of the tower. Lev Romanov in his article for Messenger of Mordovia trying to figure out whether this is a serious shortcoming.

Why is the "Armata" no twin machine gun?


“When the first photos of the T-14 tank with a declassified view of the turret appeared on the Web, many were surprised that, apart from being mounted on the roof of the turret, there was no twin machine gun next to the cannon. The refusal to deploy auxiliary armaments here is quite understandable. The fact is that the embrasure located next to the instrument is a very weakened zone. According to the experience of numerous wars and conflicts, this leads to the defeat of the tank, ”the expert writes.

He notes that non-classical tanks being created are usually not equipped with a coaxial machine gun. For example, he cites a photo of an American TTV tank pilot and Jordan-South African TARIQ Falcon 1.

Ttv

TARIQ Falcon 1


According to Romanov, the T-14 machine-gun unit "is in the most advantageous place, it allows shelling of targets practically in the radius of 360 degrees, moreover, the commander and gunner-operator can switch the work of the machine gun to themselves."

"For those who believe that the 7,62 mm machine gun is not effective enough for some purposes, it is worth mentioning that the T-14, like its older brothers T-90 of various modifications, will necessarily be equipped with a highly efficient system for remotely detonating a projectile on a trajectory," writes the author.

In addition, Romanov notes, at the current exhibition of weapons in Abu Dhabi, the T-90CM was demonstrated with a new remote-controlled machine gun installation of the 12,7 mm caliber. And this installation, according to the expert, in the near future may well appear on the Armata tank.
Photos used:
vestnik-rm.ru
103 comments
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  1. _Alexei_
    _Alexei_ 18 May 2015 10: 19
    +14
    I think they will put a more powerful machine gun
    1. Kars
      Kars 18 May 2015 10: 20
      +1
      Why? Because they drove)))
      it will be good if they put 20 - 45 mm quick shooter, but UVZ does not pull something on the creative.
      1. Muadipus
        Muadipus 18 May 2015 10: 27
        +29
        They’ll put it again. What was shown at the parade is essentially a blank. on the tower are clearly visible on the edges of the niche in which can fit both a grenade launcher and a 30mm cannon and machine gun. The main thing is that they created the base machine and the combat modules can be anything. This tank has a huge reserve for upgrades
        1. Kars
          Kars 18 May 2015 10: 37
          +1
          Quote: Muadipus
          What was shown at the parade is essentially a blank

          Then what is the essence of the show at the parade? Someone from the main blurted out, and had to strain that would be at least something for the holiday))
          The same zagoton of Ragozin about 152 mm is a new tank to do.
          1. THANK YOU ALL
            THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 10: 54
            +17
            Quote: Kars
            Then what is the essence of the show at the parade? Someone from the main blurted out, and had to strain that would be at least something for the holiday))
            The same zagoton of Ragozin about 152 mm is a new tank to do.

            It seems that this "quirk" has been pondered by UVZ engineers for more than one year and not only pondered.
            And the new module seems to be ready, as well as the gun.
            As for the new gun, there was already an interview with the UVZ designer, everything on the tank is modular and unified, the installation of a new gun is provided in advance.
            Do you think that "MEDIUM TANK"Is T 14 a mistake? laughing hi
            1. Kars
              Kars 18 May 2015 11: 04
              +1
              Quote: THANK YOU ALL
              It seems that this "quirk" has been pondered by UVZ engineers for more than one year and not only pondered.

              Honestly, it seems more and more what UVZ engineers think and become an oxymoron.

              Quote: THANK YOU ALL
              As for the new gun, there was already an interview with the UVZ designer, everything on the tank is modular and unified, the installation of a new gun is provided in advance.

              certainly necessary
              Quote: THANK YOU ALL
              Do you think that "MEDIUM TANK" T 14 is a mess?

              as if she would be the first one))
              1. Prapor-527
                Prapor-527 18 May 2015 11: 33
                +2
                Quote: Kars
                Honestly, it seems more and more what UVZ engineers think and become an oxymoron.

                What is an oxymoron, dear?
                1. just exp
                  just exp 18 May 2015 11: 41
                  +10
                  The oxymoron is that some, like this character, consider the "Stronghold" a tank, and moreover the best tank in the world, and this is allegedly "recognized" by Russian experts.
                  1. Kars
                    Kars 18 May 2015 12: 08
                    +1
                    Quote: Prapor-527
                    What is an oxymoron, dear?

                    In what designers think there. Who didn’t even put a coaxial machine gun, but for some reason everyone is sure that they should put it down once and consider the story about the weakened zone convincing))
                    not talking already about how you mentioned the 152 mm module on the back-track, although you could not put the coalition on the armature chassis, even the return of the system with a powerful muzzle brake will be less than the tank 152 mm on which the muzzle is not put.
                    Quote: just explo
                    the fact that some, according to the type of this character, consider the "Stronghold" tanko

                    And what do you think about Oplot, which has passed state tests, and which is already exported and operated by a foreign country.

                    Quote: just explo
                    Moreover, the best tank in the world and it

                    for experts didn’t come to me, but I know that he is the best for a long time)) at least two years

                    http://topwar.ru/23255-samye-luchshie-osnovnye-boevye-tanki-mira-na-2012-god.htm
                    l
                    1. Prapor-527
                      Prapor-527 18 May 2015 12: 32
                      +1
                      Time will tell...
                    2. THANK YOU ALL
                      THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 12: 34
                      +2
                      Quote: Kars
                      And what do you think about Oplot, which has passed state tests, and which is already exported and operated by a foreign country.

                      How many OPLOT units were delivered to the troops in total?
                      Quote: Kars
                      not talking already about how you mentioned the 152 mm module on the track

                      Search the web for this interview, I'm too lazy.
                      It said that the gun was ready and the AZ for it and the new ammunition, the platform and the LMS modular all quickly integrated with the new gun. hi .
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 12: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                        How many OPLOT units were delivered to the troops in total?

                        Thailand has already collected a dozen
                        Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                        Search the web for this interview, I'm too lazy.
                        It said that the gun was ready and AZ under

                        you can say anything
                      2. avt
                        avt 18 May 2015 13: 52
                        +6
                        Quote: Kars
                        Thailand has already collected a dozen
                        I will answer
                        Quote: Kars
                        you can say anything

                        But you have to come to terms with a simple thought - tank building on the territory of Ukraine, including the Morozov design school, will no longer exist. They can restore old T-64s from the backlog of Soviet corps, but they will not create them. As well as finishing off “Antonov”, this is an objective reality introduced into the sensation on Ukraine not by Putin, and because you don’t want to recognize it, it will not dissolve - a medical fact.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 18: 29
                        +1
                        Quote: avt
                        But you have to come to terms with a simple thought - tank building in Ukraine, including the Morozov Design School, will no longer be

                        You are too pisimisticheskih. There are still chances, but you naturally will not like it.
                      4. The comment was deleted.
                      5. gjv
                        gjv 18 May 2015 14: 01
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        Thailand has already collected a dozen

                        Quote: Kars
                        you have strange associations, I buy tanks only plastic and do not pay attention to the state of origin

                        April 13, 2015 Kharkiv State Enterprise "Plant named after VA Malyshev" completed the production of the second batch of five serial BM "Oplot-T" tanks under the 2011 contract with Thailand. News from andrei_bt.
                        Looking at the photo, we can assume that the tanks were ready at the beginning of 2015.
                        And four. One already with ... stayed? Or do they want to slip the Thai Komvzvoda Volga instead of a tank? bully Yes, and the rest there is no information about their dispatch to the Thai customer.
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 25
                        +1
                        Quote: gjv
                        for the rest there is no information about their sending to the Thai customer

                        which others?
                      7. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 12: 46
                        +5
                        Yes, to whom do you explain? Svidomitov only bone marrow, they do not understand anything that will not chew them and put in the head censor. yes or TSN.
                    3. just exp
                      just exp 18 May 2015 12: 45
                      +4
                      and what is the best stronghold? your DZ and steel are overtaken by the most do not spoil. it’s the best only in 3D renderings and that’s only with you.
                      I saw on YouTube YouTube’s strongholds of praise, do not stand up to criticism at all.
                      PS and in war, when will he show himself? or is he so good that he is not allowed into the war, they say he will immediately defeat everyone?
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 05
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        they don’t understand anything that willn’t chew them and put censor.da or TSN in their heads.

                        You did not notice that the article about the best Bastion was published long before TSN))
                        Quote: just explo
                        your DZ and steel are crap on the most do not spoil

                        It seems so to you, there is still no photo of armor breakdown under the triggered block DZ Knife. Well, the steel is still Soviet))

                        Quote: just explo
                        PS and in war, when will he show himself? or he’s so good that he’s not allowed to go to war

                        Darling, and he needs to be sent with the crew of test testers of Morozov Design Bureau, who will do it
                      2. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 13: 33
                        +3
                        1 steel is not entirely Soviet, its detsl processed at KhTZ
                        2 yes, there is no photo of the broken armor for the DZ Knife, because the tank fails after it is activated, this is one of the reasons why your military does not order more DZ for tanks.



                        "Contact" was developed in 1982 and began to enter service in 1984. It was stated that the protection is capable of reducing the effect of cumulative ammunition by 50-80%. But, unlike the newer built-in reactive armor, it does not work against armor-piercing sub-caliber shells, which are abundant in the ammunition of militia tanks. In addition, Contact is defenseless against tandem ammunition. And these types of weapons are widely used in the Donbass. There is an opinion that the Ukrainian military would be happy to install something more modern, but the use of Bulat tanks with the Knife reactive armor in an armed conflict has demonstrated that this DZ is redundant in its characteristics. It is so redundant that, when triggered, it disables not only the incoming ammunition, but the tank itself. Allegedly, this can be seen from the photographs of the destroyed Bulats posted on the Internet.



                        Destroyed BM "Bulat". The pictures show damaged fenders and tracks

                        Most of the tanks had their fenders broken and the caterpillar belts themselves damaged, just as they were hit by the “Knife” that had been triggered. Disappointed with the development of the Ukrainian defense industry, the Ukrainian military is forced to once again recall the Soviet legacy.


                        By the way, why is Oplot so supertank that the military cannot use it, that only testers can cope with it?
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        1 steel is not entirely Soviet, its detsl processed at KhTZ

                        and by chance not a Krmator metal plant? And what do you dislike in steel? If the torn hulls, then the tank, in principle, is not designed to withstand internal explosions.
                        Quote: just explo
                        2 yes, there is no photo of the broken armor for the DZ Knife, because the tank fails after its operation

                        This is not true, and your photo by the way does not prove anything.
                        and the excerpt is not subject to criticism. if I am not mistaken from the winter numbers of Equipment and weapons or reprint))

                        And by the way, what will suit you more than broken armor with splinters and jets entering the BO, or a damaged fenders?
                      4. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 14: 14
                        +1
                        look at the whole tank, the armor is not knocked out, and the tank is gone.
                        Is it not better to make such a DZ, which will remain the whole tank? After all, her goal is to save the tank?
                      5. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 30
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        Is it not better to make such a DZ, which will remain the whole tank? After all, her goal is to save the tank?

                        And for what reasons do you sin on DZ? The regiment could well be so damaged by tank explosions. And so on.
                        There is no evidence that the DZ Knife damages the tank and deprives it of combat effectiveness.
                      6. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 14: 43
                        +1
                        I saw this photo before, as well as photos of other tanks with not broken armor, but incapacitated, and think again about the fact that the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine refused to install the Knife.
                      7. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 14: 51
                        +2
                        I read about the fact that the MO has no money, but do they have money for the Contact they want? But does the modernization of the T-64 require no money? So are they?
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        , and think again about the fact that the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine refused to install the Knife

                        You think more about the pictures)) just open-mindedly. At least you can do it. If I’m Svidomo, then you’re no better than me in tenacity)
                      9. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 16: 06
                        +1
                        yes God is with you, we will not come to a common opinion, therefore you, as a citizen of Ukraine, just take an interest in your military, or rather, those who are fighting in the east.
                        they will explain you better.
                      10. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 16: 14
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        take an interest in your military, or rather those who are fighting in the east

                        The military has no claims to DZ Knife, in parts from Bulat DZ not removed.
                        Quote: just explo
                        they will explain you better.

                        Naturally. You obviously do not understand the topic.
                      11. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 31
                        +1
                        messed up the picture
                        ________
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 57
                        +1

                        __________
                      13. Tor hummer
                        Tor hummer 18 May 2015 15: 38
                        0
                        Quote: just explo
                        and what is the best stronghold? your DZ and steel are overtaken by the most do not spoil. he is the best only on 3 renders and that


                        And I would not call it the best based on 3-D renders, there are tanks that look much cooler in the pictures than Oploty. Even the same T-90 MC is much more beautiful, and there are still all sorts of Japanese K-2, etc.)))
                    4. Prapor-527
                      Prapor-527 18 May 2015 12: 50
                      +6
                      Quote: Kars
                      That designers there think. Who didn’t even put a coaxial machine gun

                      Here is an axumoron! They shouted to the whole world, but it was too much to do ... At least 10 pieces for the "Parade of Peremogi" in Kiev ...
                      1. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 13: 04
                        +3
                        if he still knew that their DZ itself, when triggered, deactivates the tank, then he would not puff about the best tank.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 40
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        if he still knew that their DZ itself, when triggered, deactivates the tank, then he would not puff about the best tank

                        If you still proved it))
                      3. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 14: 16
                        +3
                        the photo on the network is full and the very fact that the Ministry of Defense of Ukraine refused to install the Knife, what does it mean?
                        or do you have all the agents of the Kremlin in the MO deliberately harm? or do they know what you don’t know?
                      4. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        the photo on the net is full yes and

                        there is a photo, but there is no photo with evidence of exactly the guilt of the DZ knife
                        Quote: just explo
                        The Ministry of Defense of Ukraine refused to install the Knife, what does it mean?

                        about the lack of money
                      5. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 14: 47
                        +3
                        and what then disabled the tank, that the armor wasn’t knocked out, and the tank was completely stripped and disabled? machine gun gone? BMP fired?
                        here’s a photo of maybe another tank, look at the sidewall,
                        and in the next post I will post a photo of the same tank from the other side, also look at the sidewall, tracks and so on, and think about why it exploded, or was it hit from both sides that knocked out both sides?
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 15: 04
                        +1
                        http://lostarmour.info/armour/item.php?id=700
                        take a closer look, especially the other side, where the Knife didn’t work and the regiment is rotated. Well, it looks like the crew had a chance to survive.

                        and think about the fuel tanks on the fenders.
                      7. Aleksey_K
                        Aleksey_K 18 May 2015 19: 55
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        and think about the fuel tanks on the fenders.

                        These fuel tanks are for marching only, in battle they must be empty. Before the battle, everything is unnecessary from the tank, for which the shell can "catch on" is removed, and even more so the fuel.
                      8. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 20: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Алексей_К
                        Before the battle from the tank, in general, everything is unnecessary,

                        Well, maybe according to the charter it can be relied on, but not the fact that this is done. Especially in the local war with ambushes, and the like.
                      9. Aleksey_K
                        Aleksey_K 18 May 2015 20: 52
                        +2
                        I wonder what kind of marches can be discussed in a local war in small countries. A march throw with additional tanks and barrels is at 1000 km or more. In other cases, there are enough internal fuel tanks, especially since tankers are not suckers and they also want to live and it is not a charter, but a desire to live longer.
                        By the way, I didn’t set you a minus, but your reaction forces you to answer the same.
                      10. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 22: 41
                        +1
                        Quote: Алексей_К
                        but your reaction forces you to answer the same.

                        Yes, in this thread I haven’t set a single minus to anyone))))
                        Quote: Алексей_К
                        I wonder what kind of marches can be discussed in the local war in small countries.

                        And where does the march roll? Salyaru is poured to the maximum, how much is obtained, because then it either will not be, or it can be sold.
                        Quote: Алексей_К
                        that tankers are not suckers and also want to live, and it’s not a charter, but a desire to live longer.

                        Then tell me what happened to these shelves?
                      11. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 14: 48
                        +4
                        and here’s the second side, we noticed that the destruction goes where there is no longer DZ, and where there is DZ, the sides (more precisely, part of them) are whole?
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 18: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        noticed that the destruction goes where there is no longer DZ

                        But as you can see, the caterpillar is intact, and the shelf is 5 mm aluminum, and the armor behind the DZ is intact. It can be seen that either the tank exploded or the OFS flew in. At the same time, the main damage is farther than the missing extreme block of the DZ, and look - it is fixed from all sides, and the tower is in place, there is no internal explosion, etc.))
                      13. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 18: 55
                        +1
                        Then the campaign DZ knife, too, the shelves and the caterpillar turned?
                      14. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 06
                        +1
                        And why is there a photo of the T-72 export grade?
                        Quote: Prapor-527
                        and make the gut is thin ...

                        money, the RF is a rich oil-bearing country, and how many years Armatu built, and still has not completed.
                      15. Prapor-527
                        Prapor-527 18 May 2015 13: 16
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        money, the RF is a rich oil-bearing country, and how many years Armatu built, and still has not completed.

                        What, the US has run out of money? Or has everyone gone to dig an "anti-Russian" ditch?
                      16. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 41
                        +1
                        Quote: Prapor-527
                        Well, did the US run out of money?

                        Well, not the tanks, it’s easier to drop the Leoprards.
                      17. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 13: 26
                        +3
                        the armature began to be made in 2010, after refusal of about. 195, and this is a completely new tank, and not the modernization of old tanks (you should first look at (T-90MS, which has already radically changed), which other countries could do this?
                      18. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 42
                        +1
                        South Korea, Turkey, Japan
                      19. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 14: 20
                        +6
                        did they make new platforms? or do they have a classic tank?
                        and K2 began to be made in 1995, launching in a series in 2014, that is, 19 years.
                        Armata began to be made in 2010, now 2015, how many years have passed?
                      20. iConst
                        iConst 18 May 2015 14: 25
                        0
                        Quote: just explo
                        Armata began to be made in 2010, now 2015, how many years have passed?

                        Assembling prototypes is actually the final stage of development.
                        What we saw at the parade is no longer experienced, but pre-production.
                        So the development took a lot more.
                        The cycle of such high-tech products exceeds two decades.
                      21. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 16: 08
                        +2
                        there they used the developments on vol.195, as the Koreans used the developments on K1.
                      22. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 16: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        there they used the developments on the volume 195, as the Koreans used the achievements on the K1

                        Well, Koreans on Rokit generally raised the tank industry. And the Russian Federation has wide experience and not only 195. So for a long, long time two steps went back one in front.
                      23. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 36
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        did they make new platforms? or do they have a classic tank?

                        And what armata is a new platform right? A tower, tracks, a gun, everything is like a FSE. Starting with Renault 17
                        Quote: just explo
                        Armata began to be made in 2010, now 2015, how many years have passed?

                        somewhere 23-25 years)) after all, the predecessors were
                        Quote: just explo
                        and K2 began to be made in the 1995 year, launching in a series in 2014, that is, 19 years

                        The project budget amounted to $ 230 million for eleven years of development
                        I wonder how much UVZ mastered
                        and there probably was not in a hurry, no one promised to give out for the parade
                      24. just exp
                        just exp 18 May 2015 16: 09
                        0
                        it is clear that everything that is not in your favor will be denied. Even if God comes down now and explains that you are wrong, you just send him away and become a Satanist.
                      25. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 16: 33
                        +1
                        Quote: just explo
                        it is clear that everything that is not in your favor will be denied

                        I am generally a disinterested party, unlike UVZ.
                      26. Tor hummer
                        Tor hummer 18 May 2015 20: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        And what armata is a new platform right? A tower, tracks, a gun, everything is like a FSE. Starting with Renault 17


                        Yeah, if the Armata tank does not fly on an anti-gravity cushion and does not fire plasma, then the platform is not new. You have been understood.
                      27. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 20: 28
                        +1
                        Quote: Tor Hummer
                        Yeah, if the Armata tank does not fly on an anti-gravity cushion and does not fire plasma, then the platform is not new. You have been understood.

                        it’s good that they understood.
                      28. padded jacket
                        padded jacket 18 May 2015 15: 21
                        +7
                        What are you? Ukraine "world tank power" lol
                        And her "achievements" in this field will quickly "prove" to you here by prominent specialists from this state and experts from the friendly to the Kiev fascist regime territorial entity called Israel smile
                      29. Alexey-74
                        Alexey-74 18 May 2015 16: 16
                        +2
                        It is true that Ukraine is not a tank power, the USSR was the power, and Ukraine is a splinter, and it has not yet invented and has created nothing and is unlikely to ever create one!
                    5. The comment was deleted.
                    6. gjv
                      gjv 18 May 2015 13: 12
                      +2
                      Quote: Kars
                      In what designers think there. Who didn’t even put a coaxial machine gun, but for some reason everyone is sure that they should put it down once, and they consider the story convincing

                      Quote: bolat19640303
                      The advantage of the coaxial machine gun is its constant readiness for use by the gunner. He can choose how to hit the identified target - with a gun or machine gun. The T-14 declared the ability to control a machine gun on the tower as a commander or gunner. And if the commander hits the target from the flank of the machine gun and at the same time the gunner discovers a tank-dangerous target from the front

                      Quote: PRACTICE
                      I wanted to draw attention to some things that no one paid attention to:

                      Роguys, Leo Romanov and others like him, those who ss ... tsya that
                      T-14 is armed with only one 7,62 mm machine gun mounted on the roof of the tower
                      you should take a ruler and compare the diameters (photos of top views are available) machine gun trunks on the roof of the tower and the gun, and then you can safely continueThat: T-14 is armed with only one 76-mm gun mounted in front of the tower. fool
                      Sane guys understand that the module on the roof of the tower is installed Cord or similar 12,7 mm for working on helicopters and upper floors in the city. Regarding the pointing angles in the lower sector of the aiming, the post of the weather station sensors covers a sector of no more than 6 °, the KAZ emitter and the radio antenna are another 2 °. Their positions are fixed, therefore there are two methods - missed shots or reposition of the tower, as described below PRACTICIAN Ivanov I.I. (+).
                      1. The comment was deleted.
                      2. gjv
                        gjv 18 May 2015 13: 44
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        That designers there think. Who didn’t even put a coaxial machine gun

                        Ask the commander to "bend down"!

                        And look into this "hole", just first "make an agreement" with the gunner so that he does not press anything, otherwise you have "the tower will be demolished".
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 58
                        +1
                        Quote: gjv
                        Ask the commander to "bend down"

                        I would ORDER him not to hang out of the hatch in combat conditions, and there should be automatic equipment that prohibits both a shot from a cannon and a twin from open hatches. On the T-72-T-80 it definitely was.
                      4. The comment was deleted.
                      5. gjv
                        gjv 18 May 2015 14: 10
                        +2
                        Quote: Kars
                        I would ORDER him not to stick out of the hatch in combat conditions, and there should be automatic equipment that prohibits both a shot from a cannon and a twin from open hatches.

                        Yeah, twin found?
                        Quote: Kars
                        It was definitely on the T-72-T-80.

                        I don’t suppose that on T-14 our designers completely forgot about crew safety! soldier
                      6. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: gjv
                        Yeah, twin found?

                        Yeah. No.
                        Quote: gjv
                        I don’t suppose that on T-14 our designers completely forgot about crew safety!

                        Who knows.
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. gjv
                        gjv 18 May 2015 14: 27
                        +1
                        Quote: Kars
                        Quote: gjv
                        Yeah, twin found?
                        Yeah. No.
                        Quote: gjv
                        I don’t suppose that on T-14 our designers completely forgot about crew safety!
                        who his knows.

                      9. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 15: 07
                        +1
                        that you read the article? about the fact that on the T-14 there is no coaxial machine gun? that would .. there was no weakened zone ..?
                      10. Days
                        Days 18 May 2015 23: 02
                        0
                        Quote: Kars
                        I would ORDER him

                        Hmm, maybe you don’t bury your talent in the ground, but call on the brave military from the Armed Forces to fight on the invincible and new Bastions (at the same time, order to build at least one for the Armed Forces, dear admirer of KhBTRZ) against the unfinished and plywood T-14? smile As you know, Ukrainian cyborgs already beat Armata smile
                      11. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 23: 08
                        +1
                        Quote: Dagen
                        Hmm, you may not bury your talent in the ground,

                        That is, you for the tank commander to lean out of the hatch in combat conditions, by the way, this will not help him much when the video review fails, he will not have a circular view, as was the case for the tank commander in the tower.
                        Quote: Dagen
                        chaff the brave military

                        If they let me criticize) 0 I would have thought, but I’m not interested in going this way. Moreover, I served in the 55 art brigade, and there were no tanks there.
                        Quote: Dagen
                        new Bastions (at the same time order to build at least one for the Armed Forces, dear admirer of KhBTRZ) against the unfinished and plywood T-14?

                        I would release our factory against armata, which was shown at the parade.
                        Quote: Dagen
                        As you know, Ukrainian cyborgs have already beaten Armata

                        Well, the militia, too, saw the Black Panther near Shirokino))
                      12. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 15: 27
                        +1
                        take the line do not stand the same Samay turret then on the T-90 MS Tagil
                    7. Alexey-74
                      Alexey-74 18 May 2015 16: 00
                      +2
                      only the whole world does not know that "OPLOT" is the best ... negative
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 16: 11
                        +1
                        Quote: Alexey-74
                        only the whole world does not know that "OPLOT" is the best

                        Are you ready to be responsible for the whole world? And in principle, each tank-building country thinks its tank is the best.
              2. THANK YOU ALL
                THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 12: 07
                +3
                Quote: Kars
                Honestly, it seems more and more what UVZ engineers think and become an oxymoron.

                Why do you think so?
                1. Kars
                  Kars 18 May 2015 12: 31
                  +1
                  Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                  Why do you think so?

                  Many people who are familiar with my comments know my attitude to tanks. And they know how I personally waited, and I’m waiting for the next generation tank. And what I showed at the parade didn’t impress me. I didn’t see any breakthrough ideas from UVZ, just stomping on the spot with T-90, which was able to reach the level of T-80 and slightly surpass only in 2006 year
                  1. Altona
                    Altona 18 May 2015 12: 46
                    +7
                    Quote: Kars
                    Many people who are familiar with my comments know my attitude to tanks. And they know how I personally waited, and I’m waiting for the next generation tank. And what I showed at the parade didn’t impress me. I didn’t see any breakthrough ideas from UVZ, just stomping on the spot with T-90, which was able to reach the level of T-80 and slightly surpass only in 2006 year

                    ------------------------------
                    Reminds a joke about a Jew:"Moishe, buy caramels for the children. The children want sweets. -My children will not eat caramels, they are worthy of chocolates, but I have saved up for them!"
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 18 May 2015 13: 08
                      +1
                      Well, you have strange associations, I only buy plastic tanks and don’t pay attention to the state of origin of their prototype
                      .
                  2. THANK YOU ALL
                    THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 12: 46
                    +8
                    Quote: Kars
                    And what was shown at the parade did not impress me. And I did not see any breakthrough ideas from UVZ, just stomping on the spot

                    And what about the armor capsule for the crew?
                    A remotely controlled module?
                    A brand new diesel?
                    What about afghanit?
                    A new gun 125?
                    Not to mention the electronics of the tank.
                    A breakthrough idea is that an anti-gravity suspension, instead of a railgun gun, or a plasma blaster?
                    1. Kars
                      Kars 18 May 2015 13: 02
                      +1
                      Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                      And what about the armor capsule for the crew?

                      But it doesn’t seem to be there, they just combined the entire crew in the corps behind the VLD.
                      Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                      A remotely controlled module?

                      What is it? A German Donar with an uninhabited tower with 2009 as it is. Let the SPGs, but the dimensions of the tower are far from the armata.
                      Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                      A brand new diesel?

                      Fundamentally new? I certainly understand that everything that is not B-92 new, but straight fundamentally?
                      Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                      What about afghanit?

                      His work was not shown, and the very existence of KAZ is far from news
                      Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                      And the new 125 gun

                      and what's so new about it? A statement on 15 percent is better than German L55, so the Chinese even 5 years ago stated that theirs is on 40% better.
                      Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                      Not to mention the electronics of the tank.

                      Well, yes, in our time they were surprised by electronics. Better remember how many slops poured onto the bucket of the Oplot sight, which has been standing for 10 years, and on the barrel that is on Armata.
                      1. Prapor-527
                        Prapor-527 18 May 2015 13: 27
                        +4
                        Quote: Kars
                        Well, yes, in our time they were surprised by electronics. Better remember how many slops poured onto the bucket of the Oplot sight, which has been standing for 10 years, and on the barrel that is on Armata.

                        You, dear, are crazy about the fact that Russia managed to create such a tank, and Ukraine has to work with soviet past ... from which she denies in every possible way.
                      2. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 35
                        +1
                        Quote: Prapor-527
                        You, dear, are crazy about the fact that Russia managed to create such a tank,

                        I’m not a fan, but I’m disappointed that the Russian Federation has not yet succeeded in creating such a tank, maybe in a couple of years and a dozen billions of rubles something will come out,
                        Quote: Prapor-527
                        with the Soviet past ... from which she denies in every possible way.

                        Well, the T-80 platform has not yet developed all the possibilities. And the T-64 is normal for budget upgrades.
                      3. Prapor-527
                        Prapor-527 18 May 2015 13: 49
                        +1
                        It is impossible to create a modern tank "in a couple of years" ...
                      4. Prapor-527
                        Prapor-527 18 May 2015 13: 53
                        0
                        Quote: Prapor-527
                        Well, the T-80 platform has not yet developed all the possibilities. And the T-64 is normal for budget upgrades.

                        I agree. But you need to move on. The Soviet "armor" when it ends ...
                    2. iConst
                      iConst 18 May 2015 13: 32
                      0
                      My notes, for the sake of objectivity:
                      Quote: THANK YOU ALL
                      Quote: Kars
                      And what was shown at the parade did not impress me. And I did not see any breakthrough ideas from UVZ, just stomping on the spot

                      And what about the armor capsule for the crew?
                      - Definitely a breakthrough.
                      A remotely controlled module?
                      - Well, already applied on many products
                      A brand new diesel?
                      - What does "fundamentally" new mean? On other principles? Then it is no longer a diesel.
                      What about afghanit?
                      - All advanced armies have been active in defense for a relatively long time. The question is efficiency - but the parameters are not disclosed.
                      A new gun 125?
                      - Declared brilliant parameters for guns of this or similar caliber. This is a step or two forward, but not a breakthrough.
                      Not to mention the electronics of the tank.
                      “We know little about electronics.” This was traditionally a weak spot in the Soviet-Russian military industry. And if in terms of efficiency they approached foreign samples, then in terms of mass and size indicators they lost.
                      A breakthrough idea is that an anti-gravity suspension, instead of a railgun gun, or a plasma blaster?
                      “You forgot about another point: composite armor.” There can really be a breakthrough. But - hhhhhhh!

                      The main breakthrough is modularity and a high margin for modernization. Y. Kedmi, an Israeli analyst of Soviet descent, spoke highly of Armata, not failing to note that some of the solutions have already been applied in Merkava of the latest modifications.
                      1. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 39
                        +1
                        Quote: iConst
                        The main breakthrough is modularity

                        Modularity, does it definitely exist?
                        Quote: iConst
                        high stock of modernization.

                        Is this a brand new tank, and already nod to the reserve of modernization?
                        Quote: iConst
                        then some solutions have already been applied in Merkava of the latest modifications.

                        Modular Armor and Kaz
                      2. iConst
                        iConst 18 May 2015 14: 07
                        +3
                        Quote: Kars
                        Quote: iConst
                        The main breakthrough is modularity

                        Modularity, does it definitely exist?
                        - No, of course! Empty nests - so, for fun ... smile
                        Quote: iConst
                        high stock of modernization.

                        Is this a brand new tank, and already nod to the reserve of modernization?
                        “Something new will not be completely new.” Great is the husband who is looking forward ...
                        Quote: iConst
                        then some solutions have already been applied in Merkava of the latest modifications.

                        Modular Armor and Kaz
                        - And not only.

                        You fought for the Bulwark. In any case, it makes no sense to compare these combat vehicles because Oplot is an evolutionary machine - a continuation of the development of the "classic" Soviet school of tank building. Armata is revolutionary. I emphasize - it is not better or worse - Armata conceptually completely different in the layout of components and assemblies.
                      3. Kars
                        Kars 18 May 2015 14: 38
                        +1
                        Quote: iConst
                        Armata is conceptually completely different in the layout of components and assemblies.

                        which has yet to prove its worth.

                        and what is not only in merkava from Almaty or vice versa?

                        I didn’t see any empty sockets. And in what do you generally understand the modularity of the platform?
              3. Alexey-74
                Alexey-74 18 May 2015 15: 57
                0
                Yes, you’re a pessimist, my friend, however ...
        2. iConst
          iConst 18 May 2015 13: 13
          +1
          Quote: Muadipus
          They’ll put it again. What was shown at the parade is essentially a blank.

          Guys, you listen but don’t hear - Armata is a modular platform. And this means that if necessary, they will put a 12,7 machine gun or something else.
          Thus (I hope) it will be possible to "sharpen" a combat vehicle for specific tasks right in the troops.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. gjv
            gjv 18 May 2015 14: 16
            +1
            12,7 already standing - in the module on the tower.
            7,62 already standing - paired with a gun, look at the slot on the right in the gun’s casing.
            1. Kars
              Kars 18 May 2015 14: 39
              +1
              on the 7,62 tower is almost a copy with MS
              paired - no, it’s not visible, is it there or not, did you read the article?
      2. Altona
        Altona 18 May 2015 12: 31
        +5
        Quote: Kars
        Why? Because they drove)))
        it will be good if they put 20 - 45 mm quick shooter, but UVZ does not pull something on the creative.

        -----------------------
        You have already burned hundreds of "armatures" in Donbass ... Hence, perhaps your arrogance ... What then did half the world put in his pants after the parade?
        1. Kars
          Kars 18 May 2015 12: 48
          +1
          Quote: Altona
          You have already burned hundreds of armatures in Donbas.

          thousands of trifles.
          Quote: Altona
          Well then, half the world put in his pants after the parade?

          it seems so to you, or wants to seem. As they say the dreadnought made the battleship obsolete, but not the fleet of armadillos
          Quote: Altona
          .From here probably your arrogance ..

          it is rather a disappointment as a tank lover.
          1. Altona
            Altona 18 May 2015 13: 02
            +1
            Quote: Kars
            it seems so to you, or wants to seem. As they say the dreadnought made the battleship obsolete, but not the fleet of armadillos

            --------------------
            I don’t think anything, Facebook just exploded with comments after the Victory Parade ... There are several groups of tanks and armored vehicles created there, completely different people write comments like awesome, amazing, beautiful, powerful, shield of peace, American game over ... Well, you You are not interested in the English segment, so you do not need to know the meanings of these words about Armata ...
            1. Kars
              Kars 18 May 2015 13: 44
              +1
              Quote: Altona
              I don’t think anything, Facebook

              Facebook is an indicator))
              Quote: Altona
              awesome, amazing, beautiful, powerful, shield of peace, American game over ..

              there are always all props, not only in Russia are prosralopolymers))
              And I won’t be surprised that some military concerns may well beat money out of Congress or the Bundestag under this guise.
              1. Altona
                Altona 18 May 2015 15: 00
                0
                Quote: Kars
                Facebook is an indicator))

                ------------------
                For "measuring the mood in the world" it is quite an indicator, for more I do not use it ...
      3. Per se.
        Per se. 18 May 2015 13: 55
        +1
        Quote: Kars
        it will be good if they put 20 - 45 mm arrow

        Hello Kars! On the T-95 (object "195") there was a 30 mm automatic cannon 2A42 (as on the BMP-2 or BMPT). It was mounted in the combat module along with the main weapon. At the same time, the automatic cannon had its own drives, both vertically and partly horizontally. She could not turn 180 degrees, but in a certain sector she could work independently, a 30 mm rapid-fire cannon is an alternative to the excessive consumption of the main ammunition. Those targets for which it was not worth spending an expensive heavy shot (the "main caliber" of the T-95, the 152 mm 2A83 gun) could be hit from an automatic cannon. In the photo T-95 (clickable), 30 mm cannon is seen from the side-top on the turret. I do not want to comment on "Armata" already.
        1. Kars
          Kars 18 May 2015 14: 44
          +1
          hi
          Quote: Per se.
          I do not want to comment on "Armata" already.

          and what to do - troubles
          Gur Khan: A tank with an advanced control system, with powerful protection for the crew in the capsule, as well as with a 152mm cannon, the projectile of which "burns through a meter of steel", we could have been producing serially since 2010. The name of this tank is T-95. Someone will explain to me why the finished car was stabbed to death, but billions were spent on creating the same, but worse. Indeed, in the T-14 it is not easy to stick a 152mm cannon, no matter what someone says. To do this, you need to strengthen the shoulder strap, which means to change the booted sheet. And it remains to be seen whether the hull height will be enough for an AZ with longer ammunition. Thus, the rearmament of the T-14 results in the creation of a virtually new tank again. And the question is, why didn't they do it right away? Well, fuck it was a garden to fence - to waste time and money ???


          At the same time, somehow unexpectedly the conversation started about changing the concept of using tanks in general. Do you catch the thought? But then a little unexpected thing happened - on November 13, 2009, at the 31st arsenal of the Navy in Ulyanovsk, there was a fire in one of the shops where ammunition was being disposed of. People died. As President Dmitry Medvedev said at the time, the explosions in Ulyanovsk were the result of the negligence of those responsible for the disposal of ammunition. Several major generals flew from their posts at once, including Khalitov, who, among other things, did not remain unemployed for a long time - almost instantly moved to the chair of Uralvagonzavod's deputy general director for special equipment. Already in December, Prime Minister Putin arrives at UVZ in Nizhny Tagil, where he is reported (with a presentation) that almost all of our armored vehicles are complete, and even promising developments barely reach the level of Western BTT. As a result of this meeting, the approval of a new concept for the development of BTT, entirely written by "Uralvagonzavod" for themselves. The closure of a number of programs followed immediately, including the T-95 tank. In May 2010, i.e. exactly 5 years ago, the GABTU summed up the results of the "competition" of proposals for new platforms. It is not at all surprising that the competition was won by the UKBTM. After that, a contract is signed with him to carry out the ROC under the code "Armata" ... And now we are watching the film "The Pentagon Wars" and looking for parallels ...
          1. Per se.
            Per se. 18 May 2015 21: 52
            +1
            Quote: Kars
            and what to do - troubles
            Ungrateful business, "squeak" against the wind. Many strange things, however, are revealed in our technique. The more I think here, the more I get "disappointed" in our capitalism.
    2. Baikonur
      Baikonur 18 May 2015 10: 26
      +2
      Quote: _Alexey_
      I think they will put a more powerful machine gun

      Yes, of course! This is still a "raw" sample! Still state tests will begin only at the end of 15 years. The military will also express their wishes, and much more !!!
    3. 4elovek
      4elovek 18 May 2015 10: 37
      +6
      But what kind of remote-controlled unit can not be delivered?
      Or two?
      1. BABAY22
        BABAY22 18 May 2015 11: 14
        +5
        GSH-6-23? Rate of fire up to 10000 rounds per minute (167 per second). Helicopters and drones, if only.
      2. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 18 May 2015 12: 29
        +2
        Here is an air-cooled unit. Or do you hope that the T-14 will rush across the battlefield with an attack aircraft speed sufficient to cool 6 barrels?
        belay belay belay
    4. Prapor-527
      Prapor-527 18 May 2015 10: 39
      +5
      Quote: _Alexey_
      I think they will put a more powerful machine gun

      You can do it like this ...
    5. Lenin
      Lenin 18 May 2015 11: 07
      +2
      I agree. The point is to discuss an experimental batch, especially for a parade .... The T-14 series can go with more modern weapons.
      1. THANK YOU ALL
        THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 12: 10
        +1
        Quote: Lenin
        I agree. The point is to discuss an experimental batch, especially for a parade .... The T-14 series can go with more modern weapons.

        The party for the parade was shown to us, there is a competent opinion that about 100 pieces left for the troops of everything. For testing in various climatic zones.
        But this is simply not trumpeted by the media.
        1. Kars
          Kars 18 May 2015 12: 32
          +1
          Quote: THANK YOU ALL
          But this is simply not trumpeted by the media.

          Well, yes, all the soldiers were taken away their phones and closed their pages on social networks, as well as all railway workers and motorists.
          1. THANK YOU ALL
            THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 12: 49
            +4
            Quote: Kars
            Well, yes, all the soldiers were taken away their phones and closed their pages on social networks, as well as all railway workers and motorists.

            You do not compare the Ukrainian Bedlam, which by mistake is called the army, and the armed forces of Russia.
            Here, for a page in the social network with a secret photo, they quickly unscrew the head of anyone who needs it.
            1. Kars
              Kars 18 May 2015 13: 09
              +1
              Quote: THANK YOU ALL
              here for a page in the social network with a secret photo quickly unscrew the head who needs

              Of course of course.))
              Quote: THANK YOU ALL
              You do not compare the Ukrainian Bedlam, which by mistake is called the army, and the armed forces of Russia.

              then a photo-video arm for the parade on the network since February walk.
          2. just exp
            just exp 18 May 2015 12: 51
            +8
            oh my God, again, kakly get intelligence information on social networks, we are really not brothers, we weren’t stupid in our family.
            Threat pass nullovich (the one that brought you cookies, but forgot a barrel of jam) that the United States is wasting tens of billions of dollars on the CIA in vain, the states do not need them, because there are social networks and YouTube, there is all the secret information.
            The National Security and Defense Council there is so much evidence that Internet users have already cut short, because they know what fake accounts are and how they can spin up a group and spam and even create 10 thousand accounts is a day's work for a couple of three sensible coders who will later show that Zimbabwe attacked the outskirts and that the Zulus captured Lviv.
    6. st25310
      st25310 18 May 2015 13: 20
      +1
      Of course, they will put both a machine gun and a 152mm gun. Ours just decided not to upset the Western partners ahead of time.
  2. Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 18 May 2015 10: 21
    +20
    The tank is still in the process of testing, many things will change before mass production.
    1. oleg-gr
      oleg-gr 18 May 2015 10: 32
      +5
      I totally agree. These are only pre-production samples that are tested in the troops.
      1. Peter Timofeev
        Peter Timofeev 18 May 2015 12: 03
        +2
        Serial production of new Russian tanks T-14 "Armata" or T-99 "Priority" will unfold in 2015 and until 2020
        The Armed Forces of the Russian Federation will receive 2,3 thousand of these machines.

        The Russian Ministry of Defense actually refused to purchase T-90 tanks, and pending completion of work on the new combat vehicle of the Uralvagonzavod (the new Russian tank “Almaty”), the military department intends to support the combat effectiveness of the armored forces by deeply modernizing the “best tank of the second half of the 72th century” T- XNUMX. Russian tankers are invited to wait for another three years to enter the armament of the newest tank of the XNUMXst century.


        So far, the Russian Ministry of Defense has signed a contract with Uralvagonzavod for the modernization of 170 T-72 main battle tanks worth over six billion rubles.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  3. fedor13
    fedor13 18 May 2015 10: 22
    +4
    The tank is just "space". I wouldn't be surprised if it has several surface-to-air missiles.
    1. Simon
      Simon 18 May 2015 10: 29
      +1
      Or maybe they will put something and the other on "Armata". The main thing is a tank, but you can think of anything. The head of the designers is tricky. what
  4. Zverboy
    Zverboy 18 May 2015 10: 23
    -9
    When moving a tank in the forest, the top machine gun can simply be torn down by branches, in the residential area it can be overwhelmed with debris that collapsed from above, so a machine gun coaxial with a gun is simply a necessity.
    1. Locksmith
      Locksmith 18 May 2015 10: 33
      +18
      Quote: St. John's wort
      When moving a tank in the forest, the top machine gun can simply be ripped off by branches

      Yes, and even the trunk will bend branches, the bushes will tear off the caterpillars, no, you need a machine gun somewhere under the bottom, there no one will touch it! wassat
      1. Zverboy
        Zverboy 18 May 2015 11: 07
        0
        According to the experience of operating tanks in South Africa, the top machine gun in the forest breaks down two times. And the bottom line is that only one top machine gun is not enough.
        1. iConst
          iConst 18 May 2015 14: 19
          +2
          Quote: St. John's wort
          According to the experience of operating tanks in South Africa, the top machine gun in the forest

          You can not continue further. A tank in the forest is a good name for a thriller for tankers.

          If we assume that you just need to march through a safe section of the jungle (bush) - then a machine gun can be removed - not a particularly difficult task.
    2. flSergius
      flSergius 18 May 2015 10: 35
      +10
      the top machine gun can just rip branches


      Do you think plasticine is glued? Maybe the crow will sit down, grab it with its paws, tear it off and take it to the nest? fool And not to to harm when moving through the forest, the trunk is turned back.

      And the main question: why was the "Terminator" created? He will chase the infantry. And if this is not enough to replace 7,62 with a "cord" or a grenade launcher, maybe a small mortar like a "merkava".
    3. Mooh
      Mooh 18 May 2015 11: 18
      +3
      Quote: St. John's wort
      When moving a tank in the forest, the top machine gun can simply be torn down by branches, in the residential area it can be overwhelmed with debris that collapsed from above, so a machine gun coaxial with a gun is simply a necessity.

      There is a very simple method, tested by Jews and Americans. The coaxial machine gun is not installed in the mask of the gun, but is superimposed on its barrel from the outside.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. gjv
        gjv 18 May 2015 14: 24
        0
        Quote: St. John's wort
        And the bottom line is that only one top machine gun is not enough

        Quote: flSergius
        And if this is not enough, replace 7,62 with "cord"

        Quote: MooH
        Coaxial machine gun is not installed in the mask of the gun

        12,7 already standing - in the module on the tower, and this is most likely exactly Cord.
        7,62 already standing - paired with a gun, see right slot in the gun cover.
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 18 May 2015 16: 33
          0
          Quote: gjv
          12,7 is already standing - in the module on the tower, and this is most likely Kord.
          7,62 is already standing - paired with a cannon, look to the right the slot in the cannon casing.

          gjv, maybe not worth it so categorically?
          This slot is known, attention has already been paid to it.
          It is higher than the trunk horizontally.
          - it is possible to assume that the fluff and spark are not on the same line, but on parallel lines, but then the vertical of the slot should be larger (down) ...
          - it is possible to assume that the trunks are not paired at all, but synchronized, but in this case, imagine where the axis should be for mounting the cradle under the pair ... right at the embrasure.

          Once three of us considered this photo - there was no consensus.
          Xs.
  5. Loner_53
    Loner_53 18 May 2015 10: 23
    +2
    The main thing is that the series "Armata" would go and put everything that is needed, that's for sure smile
  6. GeorgeSev85
    GeorgeSev85 18 May 2015 10: 23
    +1
    Yes, wait with the conclusions .. they will also modify it ... I won’t be surprised if 30 mm is attached to the main gun. 2A42.
  7. polite people
    polite people 18 May 2015 10: 25
    +5
    We were shown the full dress. But in fact, it will still be.
  8. jaguarstas
    jaguarstas 18 May 2015 10: 25
    +1
    All these "subtleties" need to be solved by the results of running. I think the designers will be able to identify the flaws without us. And those that do not reveal immediately, let the tankers prompt.

    It is noticeable that the American TTV and the Old Man from South Africa have a much smaller tower than Almaty.
  9. prabiz
    prabiz 18 May 2015 10: 26
    0
    No need to rush, the modernization of the machine gun on Armata will not keep you waiting!
  10. Vatnik88
    Vatnik88 18 May 2015 10: 27
    +6
    "Why does a baby have no teeth"
  11. sir_obs
    sir_obs 18 May 2015 10: 27
    +4
    As grandfather Lenin used to say in one famous film: "one fool can ask so many questions that a thousand wise men will not be able to resolve."
  12. Hauptam
    Hauptam 18 May 2015 10: 32
    +2
    The question of the coaxial machine gun is the question of nothing! Case 5 minutes.
  13. Victor-M
    Victor-M 18 May 2015 10: 32
    +1
    Why is the "Armata" no twin machine gun?

    If it is not installed, it does not mean that it is not. God knows what else can be installed on the "Armata"?
  14. yushch
    yushch 18 May 2015 10: 36
    +9
    Sorry, that is not the topic. Then the news passed that Ukraine demanded compensation from Mongolia for the destruction of Kiev and the genocide of the Ukazin Tatars, in case of refusal, Ukraine would require the imposition of sanctions against Mongolia. The representative of the parliament of Mongolia assured the Ukrainian side that they are ready to compensate the victims and their relatives, let them provide lists and added that he did not meet documents on the existence of Ukrainians in the 11th century. =)))
    1. gans_sp
      gans_sp 18 May 2015 11: 17
      +2
      In general, it was a joke)
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Nayhas
      Nayhas 18 May 2015 12: 27
      -1
      Quote: yushch
      Then the news passed that Ukraine demanded compensation from Mongolia for destroyed Kiev

      Then it’s not Kiev, but Mankerman.
      PS: Do you have a phase shift in Ukraine? Wife in bed, too, about Ukraine vparivayte?
      1. yushch
        yushch 18 May 2015 13: 04
        0
        Quote: Nayhas
        Quote: yushch
        Then the news passed that Ukraine demanded compensation from Mongolia for destroyed Kiev

        Then it’s not Kiev, but Mankerman.
        PS: Do you have a phase shift in Ukraine? Wife in bed, too, about Ukraine vparivayte?


        In general, it was a joke, but if you are rude in life, I can only sympathize. Gaps in education are difficult to restore.
  15. greshnik80
    greshnik80 18 May 2015 10: 37
    -2
    The layout of the tower is unsuccessful. Right in front of the machine gun are two protruding elements that limit the firing sector. Plus an antenna at the back of the tower. In total, there is no way to shoot 360 degrees.
  16. saag
    saag 18 May 2015 10: 37
    -15
    Given: a tank with dynamic protection, radar installations providing an overview of the upper hemisphere, mortars with damaging elements, anti-jamming solution: ATGM with tandem warhead, radar absorbing coating, mortar launch, fiber optic control (option of an ammunition with electric drive), electronics minimum and it is in copper shielding, pneumatic rudders, the ammunition falls on the turret, the quiulative jet burns to the bottom, a strong fire occurs, everything that can detonate - detonates, the turret will fly away it comes to the pigs, a half-shell crew gets out through the bottom hatch, after which it falls under the action of small arms
    1. Moore
      Moore 18 May 2015 11: 30
      +9
      It's five.
      1.Minute start - is it to better see the location of the calculation?
      2. Optical fiber - yes, cool.
      3. Pneumatic drives - our FSO. PAD for them placed on a nearby flying pepelats or put a compressor?
      4. About radio absorption and the rest I, the student of the students, am silent.
      Isn’t it easier in Svidomov’s way: tear off the hatch and throw a lemon there?
      The minus is not mine. You sincerely pleased me.
    2. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 18 May 2015 12: 00
      +2
      for saag:

      KAZ type Trophy such ATGM flying from above, intercept.
      Perhaps on Armata a similar KAZ.

      That's about the interception of KAZ OBPSov developers, in my opinion, bent
      for advertising purposes: getting into a fast uranium rod is very
      difficult, damage - even harder.
      1. brn521
        brn521 18 May 2015 13: 25
        +2
        Quote: voyaka uh
        get into the fast uranium rod is very
        difficult, damage - even harder.

        Damage is not necessary, just stabilize the flight is enough. Then he will not be able to break through the armor, because for this it is necessary that its orientation clearly coincides with the direction of movement.
    3. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 18 May 2015 12: 20
      +7
      Quote: saag
      Kuiulyatnaya jet burns to the bottom

      Wah ... for this phrase, the teachers of the BTV & T department could have made me listen to a lecture in Potivogaz - to improve the assimilation of educational material.)))
      wink
      Quote: saag
      bottom hatch

      Just neighing ....)))
      Oh yeah, saag.
      hi
  17. lehalk
    lehalk 18 May 2015 10: 49
    0
    "For those who believe that the 7,62 mm machine gun is not effective enough for some purposes, it is worth mentioning that the T-14, like its older brothers T-90 of various modifications, will necessarily be equipped with a highly efficient system for remotely detonating a projectile on a trajectory," writes the author.

    What did the author want to say with this phrase? Personally, I didn’t understand well. I probably haven’t been taught military affairs in the present way.
    1. salavat
      salavat 18 May 2015 11: 01
      +4
      Maybe he meant shrapnel or OFS that can be used for infantry at close range?
  18. Eugene-Eugene
    Eugene-Eugene 18 May 2015 10: 50
    +4
    his older brothers T-90 of various modifications

    If they are brothers, only adoptive
  19. STALGRAD76
    STALGRAD76 18 May 2015 10: 50
    0
    I will assume that much in the shape of the tank will still change to its adoption ....
  20. pv1005
    pv1005 18 May 2015 10: 52
    +2
    it allows shelling targets in a radius of 360 degrees


    Excuse me, gentlemen, good, and since when did the radius begin to be measured in degrees ??? recourse And then I graduated from school a long time ago, maybe I missed something.
    1. Semen Semyonitch
      Semen Semyonitch 18 May 2015 11: 35
      +1
      Quote: pv1005
      and since when did the radius begin to be measured in degrees ???

      Half a liter in degrees is measured drinks
    2. pv1005
      pv1005 18 May 2015 11: 38
      +2
      Especially for minus victims of the exam.
      Radius (lat. Radius - wheel spoke, beam) - a segment connecting the center of a circle (or sphere) with any point lying on a circle (or the surface of a sphere), as well as the length of this segment. The radius is half the diameter.
    3. Corsair
      Corsair 18 May 2015 11: 46
      +2
      Quote: pv1005
      Excuse me, gentlemen, good, and since when did the radius begin to be measured in degrees ??? recourse And then I graduated from school a long time ago, maybe I missed something.

      laughing Duc not all engineers, there are guanitarii universities and schools graduate. The author apparently meant the sector of defeat. And the radius - how much will the 7,62 machine gun pull there? 1000-1500 meters if the sight is good, really several times less.
  21. Wolverine
    Wolverine 18 May 2015 10: 52
    0
    There will be two 7.62 and one 12.7, and much more tasty for the enemies.
    1. Vladislav
      Vladislav 18 May 2015 11: 48
      0
      Sorry, accidentally clicked!
  22. PRACTICIAN
    PRACTICIAN 18 May 2015 11: 19
    +2
    I would like to draw your attention to some things that no one paid attention to: 1 The size of the Armata's turret is actually smaller, and what everyone sees is protective body kits, something like an outer hull. Who does not understand, take a look at the leopard 1 tower of late modifications, on it from the front and from above you can see how a semblance of the outer case is mounted. 2 It has been said several times that the design of the tank is modular, which means that you can attach to it whatever your heart desires or the combat mission requires. 3 On the left side of the Armata tower there is a "niche", perhaps there are modules with a 30 mm cannon, a bullet or an AG., Similar to some variants of the Czech T-72.
    1. flSergius
      flSergius 18 May 2015 11: 44
      +3
      The size of the tower at Armata is actually smaller, but the fact that everyone sees this is a protective body kit,


      The armor seemed to be modular. So the Israelis are also modular. If you google pictures of "merkava", the entire tower outside is filled with casing sheets with cutouts for expanding the metal under the hot sun. And our experts from the opposition screamed "cardboard-plywood" from the opposition.
  23. bolat19640303
    bolat19640303 18 May 2015 11: 27
    +6
    The advantage of a coaxial machine gun is its constant readiness for use by the gunner. He can choose how to hit the identified target - a cannon or a machine gun. The T-14 declared the ability to control the machine gun on the turret by both the commander and the gunner. And if the commander hits the target from the flank with a machine gun and at the same time the gunner discovers a tank-hazardous target from the front (for example, a grenade launcher or an idiot with a Molotov cocktail), and an armor-piercing sub-caliber gun is in the barrel of the cannon - to hit from a cannon ?? A coaxial machine gun is not a luxury, but a harsh necessity.
    By the way, how many cars were destroyed by the defeat of the tower in the weakened area where the twin FCT is located? Negligible.
    1. Aleks tv
      Aleks tv 18 May 2015 12: 32
      +4
      Quote: bolat19640303
      The advantage of the coaxial machine gun is its constant readiness for use by the gunner.

      Well said, bolat.
      hi
      Paired FCT, as it does not sound strange, is the gunner’s main weapon. He is rarely idle. It’s like a hammer - which is constantly in work, fluff - a sledgehammer, which is used as necessary.
      It was annoying:
      - for modest elevation characteristics,
      - sometimes there was not enough caliber power.
      - not just conduct aimed fire at range strokes on the scope grid.

      The DUM on Armata is certainly good, just super. We’ve dreamed about this for a long time, but this is most likely a means of self-defense of the tank from all kinds of fans to carry the seven on the shoulder.
      To use it to the gunner - not comme il faut, will prevent the commander from working in the panorama.
      DUM is more a weapon of the commander himself, in order to destroy the targets associated with observation without distracting the gunner from the main work.
      Yes, the hole for the coaxial machine gun in the frontal armor of the tower - of course, this is not an ice ...
      We must somehow choose the lesser of evils.
      Why not mount it into the fluff mask itself? Yes, increase the caliber?

      Just a rumor, let's see which decision they make.
      1. Kars
        Kars 18 May 2015 12: 51
        +2
        Quote: Aleks tv
        Yes, the hole for the coaxial machine gun in the frontal armor of the tower - of course, this is not an ice ...
        We must somehow choose the lesser of evils.

        So it’s possible for some to break the template as well)) and even the trend of the uselessness of sparky is already infected)))
        1. Aleks tv
          Aleks tv 18 May 2015 13: 15
          0
          Quote: Kars
          So it’s possible for some to break the template as well)) and even the trend of the uselessness of sparky is already infected)))

          Darova, Andrey.
          For a long time did not communicate.
          hi

          A weapon spun down with fluff is certainly desirable.
          Without fanaticism, of course, by the number of trunks, but it should be. One gunner down is not enough.
          Here 12,7 there - just right, under the armor and tape to it it is possible to make a decent one.
          1. Kars
            Kars 18 May 2015 13: 47
            +1
            hi. Well, the topic was not particularly.
            12,7 - I like the IS-7 snout, just change the top from 14,5 to 20-30 mm. And the side ones on 12,7
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. bolat19640303
        bolat19640303 18 May 2015 12: 53
        +2


        Quote: Aleks tv
        DUM is more a weapon of the commander himself, in order to destroy the targets associated with observation without distracting the gunner from the main work.


        I absolutely agree with you, Alex. The gunner of the tank needs small arms in battle. Perhaps the T-14 coaxial machine gun in one form or another will be.
  24. st25310
    st25310 18 May 2015 11: 35
    +1
    Where did the Mechanic go?
    1. THANK YOU ALL
      THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 12: 15
      +2
      Quote: st25310
      Where did the Mechanic go?

      Apparently he drove a driver at the parade. laughing
  25. PRACTICIAN
    PRACTICIAN 18 May 2015 11: 46
    +2
    As for the impossibility of firing a 7,62 machine gun at 360 degrees - as they say, you can't hide behind a mop, and even if the distance is such that the target still "fits" behind the antenna, the problem is solved by turning the tower a few degrees. And in battle, in most cases, when firing from a machine gun, no one turns the barrel to the right to the left, because the sight allows you to hit a relatively small target at a great distance, and long bursts are used either to morally suppress the enemy, or to destroy an obstacle hiding target.
  26. uragan114
    uragan114 18 May 2015 11: 48
    0
    Quote: Lehlk
    "For those who believe that the 7,62 mm machine gun is not effective enough for some purposes, it is worth mentioning that the T-14, like its older brothers T-90 of various modifications, will necessarily be equipped with a highly efficient system for remotely detonating a projectile on a trajectory," writes the author.

    What did the author want to say with this phrase?Personally, I didn’t understand wellProbably I have not been taught military affairs in the present way.


    And this, what kind of phrase ??
  27. RiverVV
    RiverVV 18 May 2015 11: 56
    0
    What is the point of discussing what is not? The towers of the tanks shown at the parade are definitely temporary. Before starting the machine in a series, it is still to be cut and sawed. If a 152 mm fool is really put on her, then the appearance of the tower will be completely different and the body kit too.
  28. Wolka
    Wolka 18 May 2015 12: 01
    0
    what was shown at the Victory Parade doesn’t mean the final version, the defenders were also reinsured, why show everything right away, the key thing in the concept is the uninhabited modular tower, so draw conclusions that how many weapons will be included in the combat kits of this or that tank modification, after all, so far we have been shown only an updated chassis and a grain of weapons and defense systems, and what will happen later we will see ... and catch-up will also establish the production of high-speed mobile wedges (ersatz ATVs) with a crew out of 2 people ...
  29. Sochi
    Sochi 18 May 2015 12: 08
    0
    Tankers, why did the tanks abandon the coaxial KPVT machine gun? There are enough targets on the battlefield for which the gun is redundant, and the PKT is weak.
  30. ssn18
    ssn18 18 May 2015 12: 12
    +3
    What are we talking about? A minimum is known about the tank. How many manufactured? I think when the T-14 goes into production, it will be significantly different from the one shown.
    Well, do not forget the words of the general from the "partners": "Fear not what the Russians showed, but what they did not show!"
    1. saber
      saber 18 May 2015 12: 31
      +1
      exactly! from the same place and plywood elements. so they showed you straight what will go into the series, yeah ... I would generally ridicule any garbage, let the "experts" go off with ma, you bastards, why did the Russians invented it? laughing
  31. RUSIVAN
    RUSIVAN 18 May 2015 12: 24
    0
    The tank base was shown at the parade, and the body kits will definitely be there, as will the modernization and refinement of the tank, I believe the RUSSIAN engineer !!!
  32. saber
    saber 18 May 2015 12: 27
    +1
    Quote: Kars
    And what do you think about Oplot, which has passed state tests, and which is already exported and operated by a foreign country.

    T72 has also passed the tests and is exported
    1. Kars
      Kars 18 May 2015 12: 36
      +1
      Quote: Saber
      T72 has also passed the tests and is exported

      Someone denies that the T-72 tank?
  33. AzBooks
    AzBooks 18 May 2015 12: 40
    +2
    But seriously.
    Who participated in the database on the tank.
    Can you tell me how often a coaxial machine gun was used? Is it effective in modern databases?
    Without sarcasm and footsteps, just for information I ask.
  34. bender8282
    bender8282 18 May 2015 12: 43
    0
    after all, there will always be p.dr.il.you will put a cat minus !!!! tank, miracle! sofas and Pwoters!
  35. major124
    major124 18 May 2015 12: 44
    -1
    It’s interesting, but if the fire control system fails from the place of the gunner in the armored capsule? Is it possible for the gunner to get into the tower and work there? The tank is assembled with us, anything can be in terms of breakdowns ... I certainly don’t want to say anything bad about our defense industry, but .....
    1. THANK YOU ALL
      THANK YOU ALL 18 May 2015 13: 06
      0
      Quote: major124
      It’s interesting, but if the fire control system fails from the position of the gunner in the armored capsule? Is there a possibility for the gunner to climb into the tower and work there?

      Is.
      1. Kars
        Kars 18 May 2015 13: 48
        +1
        Quote: THANK YOU ALL
        Is.

        Who told you that? Is there a fighting compartment from the armored capsule?
        1. arutun
          arutun 18 May 2015 14: 23
          0
          Quote: Kars

          Who told you that? Is there a fighting compartment from the armored capsule?


          You are right, I think there is no such hatch, and there should not be, if it is a hatch, then it will be light for the gunner to open it, so this is a weak zone that does not protect the crew in the "capsule".
          The tower is not inhabited at all, and I am 99% sure that there will be no transition of the crew to the tower.
          Otherwise, almost any hit in the tower = the death of the crew through the passage hatch.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  36. PRACTICIAN
    PRACTICIAN 18 May 2015 13: 33
    +2
    In order for a machine gun or one of the machine guns to work synchronously with the launcher, it does not necessarily have to be paired with it, it can be attached, for example, in a container to the tower and work synchronously in normal mode, but if necessary, it can also work independently "mode. But the 7,62 machine gun at a distance of up to 200 meters (and maybe more) pierces the BMP-1 into the side (and maybe not only the BMP), but the enemy's manpower can be effectively shot (from the PKT) at a distance of more than 1200 meters, and you can also destroy a brick or block wall from it (not very thick and if you know how to shoot at it so that it collapses). Remote detonation of a projectile on the trajectory - probably means the possibility of detonating a HE shell in the air, at any required distance, when firing at the enemy's manpower, while the projectile explodes in front of or above the target, which increases its damaging effect. Well, the tank will be "tested - run in" all the identified shortcomings will be eliminated, something new and useful will be added. I know from experience that our weapon is the best in the world, and if the barrel of a weapon is bent and there is nowhere else to take it, you need to learn how to effectively use the existing one.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. gjv
      gjv 18 May 2015 14: 45
      +1
      Quote: PRACTICE
      and if the barrel of the weapon is curved and there is nowhere to take another, you need to learn how to use the existing one efficiently.

      Device for accounting for bending of the trunk DU-125. It is intended for automatic accounting of the thermal bending of the trunk in the HV and GN planes as part of the control system. Provides increased accuracy in calculating ballistic shells. On Armata this device is installed.
      And on the module is a 12,7 mm machine gun. And there is a coaxial 7,62 mm machine gun, look into the slotted slot in the casing to the right of the gun.
  37. abc_alex
    abc_alex 18 May 2015 14: 34
    +2
    Quote: Kars
    ...


    Here is shown on Red Square Armata. Everyone knows that she has not yet passed the tests. Tests in the troops did not even begin. The fact that for the parade specially brigades of factory testers trained several military crews was stuck in their teeth. There is not even an official instruction for the tank. The military said before the parade that during the tests all systems would be checked for compliance. Ie there is no tank as such yet.
    And the parade did not show the tank. Showed Armata heavy tracked platform and cars at its base. And they could not show either the engineering machine or self-propelled guns, showed only the tank and TBMP.

    Well, Ukrainian experts have already appeared who confidently declare that there are no armored capsules in Armata, and the capabilities of the machine-gun turret are insufficient.

    Dear, you did not even see this tank alive. You do not have reliable data, you even have rumors delivered through the tenth hands! You can even theoretically know less about this tank than about the same Merkava! So with what fright did you decide that you can talk about its design? :)
    1. Kars
      Kars 18 May 2015 15: 09
      +1
      Quote: abc_alex
      Dear, you didn’t even see this tank alive

      like most. And this does not leave them to say that Armata is a super duper and further on in the text, has no analogues, surpasses, at least as you noticed there were no state tests.
  38. shadow
    shadow 18 May 2015 14: 41
    +1
    And where did you get the idea that the T-14 at the parade would look exactly like that? Rogozin has already said that there will be a replacement gun from 122 to 152mm. Maybe the tower on the tank will be different, but this one was set up for the parade. T-14 it is a block tank, created from replaceable blocks. Nobody knows what it will look like in battle.
  39. pik-ussur-lev
    pik-ussur-lev 18 May 2015 15: 18
    0
    For any kind of surprise they are preparing ....
  40. PRACTICIAN
    PRACTICIAN 18 May 2015 16: 37
    +2
    About Thai tanks: Until recently, they were armed with old American and Chinese tanks. The country buys second-rate tanks because a tank in Thailand is nothing more than a means of supporting infantry units. It’s inconvenient to fight in a forest in a tank, only in some places they can come in handy and be effective. If Thailand were a less impassable country and tanks could play a decisive role there on the battlefield, then most likely their authorities would not even look at the Ukrainian miracle tank, but would buy something more serious from Western friends.
  41. PRACTICIAN
    PRACTICIAN 18 May 2015 16: 47
    0
    I wrote about the barrel of the curve, not necessarily about the tank launcher, it’s generally about any barrel and even about any problem in general. It means that in any situation you cannot give up in battle, but you need to find a way out of the situation. The Russian soldier is always resourceful and savvy, so he knows how to win with his bare hands.
  42. Cananecat
    Cananecat 18 May 2015 19: 40
    +1
    Not to mention the electronics of the tank.
    “We know little about electronics.” This was traditionally a weak spot in the Soviet-Russian military industry. And if in terms of efficiency they approached foreign samples, then in terms of mass and size indicators they lost.

    Those who answered the questions, "to put it mildly", are not in the subject of developments in Russian electronics. Well oooo to say the least hi