Military Review

Russian Defense Ministry refuses the idea of ​​creating a wheeled tank

115
Journalists decided to ask the representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Major General Mikhail Matveevsky about the development of the wheeled program tanks for the Russian army. Work on the possible creation of wheeled tank models (heavy cannon armored vehicles), according to reports from the main defense department, began in Russia several years ago. The fate of the program for a long time remained unknown. Major General clarified the situation on the radio station "Russian News Service":

The conditions in our theater (theater of hostilities - approx. "IN") are such that not everywhere on wheels can you drive successfully. All the pros and cons of testing this system have shown that it is better to have a tracked course.


Matveyevsky stressed that at this stage, the Russian Ministry of Defense refuses to implement the project of a wheeled tank for the Russian army and focuses on supporting work on the creation of other units of armored vehicles.

At one time, work on the wheel version of a heavy armored vehicle — a wheel-mounted tank destroyer “Sting-S” —was also conducted in the Soviet Union. However, even then the work on the program was curtailed, and the production of armored vehicles did not have time to become serial.

Russian Defense Ministry refuses the idea of ​​creating a wheeled tank


The first country to create a serial wheeled tank was France. This is a sample of the AMX-10RC, which has been manufactured since 1976. Today, this heavy wheeled cannon armored car is in service with both France itself and several other states: Morocco, Cameroon, Qatar.
The production of wheeled tanks and wheeled tank destroyers was conducted or is being conducted in Japan, Italy, South Africa, China, France, the Republic of China (Taiwan).
115 comments
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  1. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 17 May 2015 08: 40
    +25
    it’s better to have a crawler track.

    Yes, with our landscape and climate, a caterpillar track is preferable. Wheeled proven in the desert and flat terrain. Although we have very passable wheeled vehicles, they have a different purpose.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 17 May 2015 08: 50
      +28
      There was another meaning, in the strengthening of wheel joints. A caterpillar tank, even a light one, will not be able to keep the speed on the march, but a wheeled one on one platform can qualitatively strengthen the wheel connection in a breakthrough, for example.

      The idea of ​​creating such compounds took shape after Georgia. When all kinds of special forces on the BTR-80 went into the breakthrough and could not give them anything to strengthen.
      1. Simon
        Simon 17 May 2015 09: 14
        +4
        For that, tracked tanks have better cross-country ability where wheeled tanks will not pass, and we have a lot of such territories in Russia. The tank must walk not only where cars go, but also off-road. By the way, "Armata" in its driving performance is not inferior to wheeled tanks, and superior in armament. And try to strengthen the admissible armor or put a more powerful bunch on a wheeled tank, the wheeled tank will get stuck in arable land.
        1. Nehist
          Nehist 17 May 2015 13: 51
          +6
          Apparently you didn’t build up on the tank in the winter, and in the summer ... It’s worth to sit on a bluch and that’s all ... Wheel self-propelled guns are definitely needed in the same swampy areas
          1. Bad_gr
            Bad_gr 17 May 2015 21: 11
            +9
            I think this kind of self-propelled guns has a right to exist. More mobile than towed and no more expensive than armored car + towed gun, separately.

      2. Nick
        Nick 17 May 2015 09: 57
        +6
        Quote: donavi49
        There was another meaning, in the strengthening of wheel joints. A caterpillar tank, even a light one, will not be able to keep the speed on the march, but a wheeled one on one platform can qualitatively strengthen the wheel connection in a breakthrough, for example.

        The idea of ​​creating such compounds took shape after Georgia. When all kinds of special forces on the BTR-80 went into the breakthrough and could not give them anything to strengthen.

        I think, nevertheless, wheeled tanks will be produced here. At the initiative of enterprises, as an export option, and then possibly in the Russian army, as has happened more than once with some models of military equipment.
      3. hydrox
        hydrox 17 May 2015 10: 04
        +4
        Quote: donavi49
        nothing could be given to them in gain.

        Reasonably thinking: wheeled and tracked vehicles are different types of weapons. If tanks are infantry support in battles on the ground, then wheeled vehicles are REMOTE fire support tools and they don’t have to climb rough terrain at all, rather quickly move around the rooks. There was no such equipment in the Second World War - and it is a pity that our losses would have been much smaller.
        1. your1970
          your1970 17 May 2015 21: 37
          0
          Well, actually there were quite a lot of cannon armored cars in WWII
      4. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 17 May 2015 10: 46
        +18
        According to all charters, tanks with infantry fighting vehicles and self-propelled guns should have gone into the breakthrough, why it didn’t work out so soon for command. In addition, according to the same charters, those who advance forward on the armored personnel carrier should receive continuous air support from the dowry of the army aviation, why this did not work, the questions are the same.
        As the experience of Georgia has shown, our generals and marshals and the available equipment are not able to use them wisely, wheeled tanks will not affect this fact in any way, they will also establish them. If necessary, then this is wheeled self-propelled artillery and mortars, but certainly not a tank, as long as there are self-propelled anti-tank systems.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. The comment was deleted.
      7. Dimka off
        Dimka off 17 May 2015 15: 41
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        The idea of ​​creating such compounds took shape after Georgia. When all kinds of special forces on the BTR-80 went into the breakthrough and could not give them anything to strengthen.

        It seems that this is not a final decision - I'm talking about an article. After all, the platform is modular - I think that if necessary they will put the cannon on the largest. Already Bahchu will definitely be able to gash there.
    2. cosmos111
      cosmos111 17 May 2015 08: 51
      +13
      Well, here's the answer, NO ... it’s grown in another, but how will we fight with the IGL in Wed Asia ???
      or they don’t allow this in the Moscow region, doesn’t such a scenario develop out ???

      in addition to the wheeled tank, there should be an armored MLRS, infantry fighting vehicle / armored personnel carrier, logistics vehicle, san ... armored vehicle ...
      and that's it, on a single platform ...
      125 mm gun fire support vehicle

      with 120 mm mortar gun

      MLRS

      author from: http: //forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php? f = 6 & t = 174213
      1. mark2
        mark2 17 May 2015 08: 58
        +14
        But what difference does it make to us, how and on what will the Icelandic special forces fight with ISIS in the Middle East? Or are you already sure that Russia will once again harness for the interests of Europe?
        1. Mitek
          Mitek 17 May 2015 09: 15
          +21
          Quote: mark2
          But what difference does it make to us, how and on what will the Icelandic special forces fight with ISIS in the Middle East? Or are you already sure that Russia will once again harness for the interests of Europe?

          Brother, in the ass Europe. The problem is that crap like igil, namely the Taliban (confused the name cosmos111) came close to the borders of Tajikistan. Who do you think will fight them?
          1. pts-m
            pts-m 17 May 2015 14: 07
            +1
            igil can replenish his ranks only at the expense of the population where he arranges his provocations. so loyalty of the population to the government of Tajikistan is a matter of questions.
        2. _Brown_
          _Brown_ 17 May 2015 12: 35
          +3
          Think not quite correctly, comrade. Wheel tanks in the terrain and climate of the Russian Federation, of course, are of little use due to obvious difficulties. But to develop, create and produce such vehicles, I think, all the same, it would be advisable for two reasons: for sale to those who are interested in these vehicles (why lose the sales market?) And as possible examples of mobilization options for amplification and fire support of motorized infantry , but simpler and cheaper than full-fledged self-propelled guns.
      2. Mitek
        Mitek 17 May 2015 09: 02
        +16
        But there is no big sense in a wheeled tank. In Georgia, the landings and special forces left alone, they took a moment and moved forward on the shoulders of the enemy. This is the basics of preventing the enemy from organizing and creating a new line of defense, cutting off and preserving warehouses as much as possible, capturing headquarters and secret carriers. There simply was not planned such a breakthrough, and there is something to strengthen such a grouping. Grad on wheeled, towed artillery, KShM and electronic warfare equipment based on URALs, air defense on wheels is-Shell, Wasp. Now there are wonderful cars based on the Tiger, boomers will come soon. Plus it’s hard to put a serious cannon on a wheeled one, or to shoot strictly in front of you, or hydraulic mounts for shooting to the sides. After all, the recoil momentum is not weak, but enough to fight armored targets and cornets. Therefore, they refused.
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 17 May 2015 09: 36
          +12
          Quote: Mitek
          . Grad on wheeled, towed artillery, KShM and electronic warfare equipment based on URALs, air defense on wheels is-Shell, Wasp. Now there are wonderful cars based on the Tiger, boomers will come soon. Plus it’s hard to put a serious gun on a wheeled one, or to shoot strictly in front of you, or hydraulic supports for firing to the sides

          such a quantity of equipment, a nightmare for logistics ...
          but I'm not talking about that ...
          at the exhibition of weapons and military equipment "Eurosatory 2014" the German company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) first showed a prototype of an ACS ...
          A sample of a self-propelled artillery installation based on the GTK Boxer armored chassis and the AGM ...
          the AGM turret is equipped with the Rheinmetall 155 mm L52 gun. A similar gun is used on the German crawler self-propelled gun PzH 2000, operated since the late nineties. When using promising active rockets, this weapon can fire at a distance of more than 50 km. For the convenience of the crew of the combat vehicle, the AGM combat module is made uninhabited. All operations, including guidance and loading of the gun, are performed by automation. The tower is equipped with built-in laying on 30 ammunition caliber 155 mm ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. cosmos111
            cosmos111 17 May 2015 09: 52
            +5
            SPG OTO Melara of the new 155-mm / 39 self-propelled howitzer on a Centauro wheeled chassis ...
            1. avt
              avt 17 May 2015 10: 22
              +4
              Quote: cosmos111
              SPG OTO Melara of the new 155-mm / 39 self-propelled howitzer on a Centauro wheeled chassis ...

              what request You know - this is more like a dream of reason ..... Or maybe - "Wouldn't you be chasing cheapness", well, in the sense of being expensive on a tank chassis and decided to continue piling up on the poor "Centaur"? Or did they put some kind of super shock absorbers on it? In the photo, the hydraulic support is not visible. To be honest, I am not aware of this monster. It still seems to me that they have no ice with a caterpillar platform.
              Quote: cosmos111
              at the exhibition of arms and military equipment "Eurosatory 2014" the German company Krauss-Maffei Wegmann (KMW) first showed a prototype of an ACS ..

              Well, everything is clear - the client needs to sniff more "Boxers", and under this any scam about modularity and logistics will fail, again, someone from the countries will get a poorer sniff of the wunderwaffe. Practical Germans, after all, initially ordered for themselves what you mentioned in the comment
              Quote: cosmos111
              A similar cannon is used on the German crawler self-propelled gun PzH 2000, operated since the late nineties.
          3. hydrox
            hydrox 17 May 2015 10: 28
            +3
            Quote: cosmos111
            but I'm not talking about that ...

            And rightly so.
            We would now put the 100 mm Coalition on wheels and the beginning would have been
          4. Mitek
            Mitek 17 May 2015 11: 14
            +13
            Space, this gun is suitable for the European theater of war, where there is more asphalt than land, the Middle East, but not Russia. I wrote above that reinforcing the column so there is something. There is no nightmare for logistics, well, maybe I just don’t see it. In addition to what is written above, wheeled vehicles will not go apart from the caterpillar one horseradish. The speed of the columns up to 50 km / h in ideal conditions. But should they get off the highway, and after the rain ... The Italian half-horse, when tested in Russia, just got into the field and that’s it. Serdyukov, by the way, also wanted to buy them by Ivec. These machines are not for us ... But in my opinion, what can be done on the basis of a shell is a small RSZO (by the way there are interesting developments already in hardware) with a package of shortened guides. Not for 20-50 km bullet, but for 3-5. Although Nona also cope with this with the accuracy of an inaccessible MLRS. But there are times when you need to drag and run.
            For the Airborne, the Octopus was made on a crawler track, floating. But they need him. A tank to throw another crap. and the Airborne Forces are highly mobile units. And octopus, cornet, nona ensure the stability of these parts in battle, even with parachute landing. A new BMD with melon generally song.
            1. cosmos111
              cosmos111 17 May 2015 11: 45
              +4
              Quote: Mitek
              this gun is suitable for a European theater

              I don’t argue for myself ... but it’s possible to install 155 mm howitzer guns on the 8x8 wheeled chassis ...
              but this is not critical, you can get by with the 120 mm "Vienna" mortar gun with the modernized version of the 2A51 and the 125-mm 2S2 cannon. "Sprut SD" tower
              Quote: Mitek
              (there are incidentally interesting developments already in hardware) with a package of shortened guides.

              here they are on the 8x8 wheeled chassis ...
              brigade on a wheeled chassis 8x8, will have to operate autonomously, for a long time, in isolation from the rear / base ... in the territory controlled by the militants ...

              and the BBM project "Stalker" Logistic

            2. Alf
              Alf 17 May 2015 23: 50
              +1
              Quote: Mitek
              In addition to what is written above, wheeled vehicles will not go apart from the caterpillar one horseradish. The speed of the columns up to 50 km / h in ideal conditions. But should they get off the highway, and after the rain ...

              First reasonable thought. When citing the speed of tracked and wheeled BM, the authors constantly forget, or perhaps they simply do not know, that the maximum speed indicated in the performance characteristics is unattainable "on the field", and the staff officers carry out all calculations based on the operational speed. And it usually does not exceed 40-50 km / h.
              In addition, when comparing the passability of even 4-axle vehicles with tracked vehicles, many forget that the ground pressure on the tracked vehicles is evenly distributed over the entire supporting surface, and on wheeled vehicles the peak pressure, so that the chances of getting stuck on the BCM are more painful compared to the BGM when overcoming soft soils.
              1. Alf
                Alf 18 May 2015 00: 43
                0
                In addition, the range of T-80 = 500 km, range of BTR-80 = 600 km. The difference is not big.
          5. shvetsov
            shvetsov 17 May 2015 13: 54
            +3
            See the Bereg artillery complex. Very similar in meaning. Only better.
          6. Nehist
            Nehist 17 May 2015 13: 56
            +2
            I remember Czechoslovakia Dana made with our 152mm gun, not badly recommended itself.
            1. Signaller
              Signaller 17 May 2015 19: 48
              +1
              Where recommended ????? Facts in the studio.
      3. Lenin
        Lenin 17 May 2015 09: 29
        +3
        Well, in Asia, the caterpillars will roll normally, but the fact that we are not going to fight Germany and Europe is definitely ... Therefore, we decided to abandon wheeled high-speed tanks for autobahns ... laughing
      4. avt
        avt 17 May 2015 09: 51
        +12
        Quote: cosmos111
        Well, here's the answer, NO ... it’s grown in another, but how will we fight with the IGL in Wed Asia ???

        And what? Do you really want to? Are they going to go straight into a tank column packed in armor through the Hindu Kush? wassat The key phrase in this refusal is, Matveyevsky emphasized that at this stage, the Russian Ministry of Defense is refusing to implement the wheeled tank project for the Russian army and is focusing on supporting the creation of other armored vehicles. "----- Well, why the heck do the wheeled MBT? Again, from the three pictures presented by you, it makes sense to make a really lightly armored version of the SPG in picture # 2, as a continuation of the wheeled “NONA”. Well, perhaps, depending on the stability of the chassis, and a variant of a lightly armored wheeled self-propelled gun PT. Well, as an amera on the Stryker, they added 105mm, so that the good would not disappear. Here we also will have MBT with 152mm - 125 to fit on different SPGs. But with the rearrangement of the hull as a platform stable for the operation of the gun. That is, to create these most other examples of armored vehicles. And MBT on wheels as a whole will always lose to tracks.
        Quote: Mitek
        The problem is that crap like igil, namely the Taliban (confused the name cosmos111) came close to the borders of Tajikistan.

        When there was exactly the same situation under Akhmat Shah, but without amers, they just got ready to enter there and stupidly bombed, it was quite enough to give Masud and his Northern Alliance from storage bases in Tajikistan a dozen other T-54s, and without even painting over old Soviet license plates and in general they looked like green grasshoppers in gray dust, and no problem with the wheels. We completely drove on tracks to Kabul. Yes, returning to
        Quote: cosmos111
        , but how with IHL in Wed Asia will fight ???
        And so did the Jews in Sinai and in general around them on land. Somehow they, in spite of the hardness of the ground and the need to maneuver between the three directions of a probable impact, do not particularly bother that they have a "Carrot" on the tracks and they are in no hurry to screw the wheels to it. But remind me - do they have armored personnel carriers on wheels? Well, something like "Stryker" in large quantities?
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 17 May 2015 10: 35
          +1
          for avt
          not convinced ... then why such an armored vehicle "Sprut SD" for the Airborne Forces ???

          if you create a brigade on a wheeled chassis like "Stayker" then everything is logical ...
          rapid deployment team, flipped IL-76, in a few hours ...
          must have all heavy calibers, 125 mm, 120 mm, 152 mm .... keep up to the approach of the main forces on heavy armored vehicles ...
          Masood fought on his territory, mainly there was a positional war ...
          Quote: avt
          Jews in the Sinai

          peninsula area - about 25 thousand km2 ... Central Asia area according to various estimates from 5 to 6 million km2 ...
          and as far as I remember, "Carrots" did not fight on Sinai at all .. "Centurions" M-60 and wheeled-tracked armored personnel carriers ... now they are fighting in the Gaza Strip: 0.36 thousand square kilometers from our area, tanks and armored personnel carriers- T, they deliver them to wheeled tractors, almost to the place of deployment ...
          modern zahal is a bad example
          all the weapons of the Arabs and Israelis, in the Yom Kippur War
          1. avt
            avt 17 May 2015 11: 25
            +2
            Quote: cosmos111
            not convinced ... then why such an armored vehicle "Sprut SD" for the Airborne Forces ???

            ACS, not a light tank or MBT and with the possibility of landing, it became at least not required to travel on the ground to the point of discharge. In general, I'm not against the wheels and specifically the installation and a tank gun on a wheeled chassis, well, if this is a really stable platform for the operation of the weapon and the "rogue" is above average laughing .
            Quote: cosmos111
            Masood fought on his territory, mainly there was a positional war ..

            Come on ! She was positional exactly until the moment the technology appeared. In the same way, Dostom came to the tanks from the north with Najib and drove the spirits back to the mountains, and then, when the equipment got up without spare parts, the spirits walked in galoshes into Kabul and hanged Najib.
            Quote: cosmos111
            the area of ​​the peninsula is about 25 thousand km2 ..

            So what ? you think it will be like this -
            Quote: wasjasibirjac
            Jewish tanks travel a couple of hundred kilometers. and that's it, Israel is over. And if you have to arrange trips a thousand miles? in this case, the wheels drive

            Yeah - right now!
            Quote: wasjasibirjac
            it’s not without reason that tanks carry such distances on tank carriers. maybe really 125-152 mm. and not required

            I will say more - also by rail on the platforms. And more personally for
            Quote: wasjasibirjac
            wasjasibirjac

            Americans HAMVI and ,, Strikers "...... about HORROR! They take trains across the USA! wassat I even saw our Urals fastened to railway platforms! You don’t want to guess why? Maybe all the same, practical people try not to kill the motor resources of ANY army equipment and the wheels here are exactly in the same position as the tracks.
            Quote: cosmos111
            if you create a brigade on a wheeled chassis like "Stayker" then everything is logical ...
            rapid deployment team, flipped IL-76, in a few hours ...

            In principle, yes - it is logical ..... Do you need it? All the same can be done with the tracked vehicles of the Airborne Forces that are being adopted, especially since it is the Airborne Forces in our country that, in fact, are engaged in such operations. Wheels with heavy weapons for "light" brigades, and such a structure has the right to be, will win with a real advantage in the criterion "cost-effectiveness" and if such equipment is used correctly. Well, not as a replacement for MBT.
            1. cosmos111
              cosmos111 17 May 2015 12: 02
              +2
              Quote: avt
              But you must

              but this is for politicians, what kind of theater is planned ... and we need rapid deployment teams ...
              Quote: avt
              All the same can be done with the adopted caterpillar airborne equipment

              1. Not everything is possible Airborne Forces of the Airborne Forces ... what were the Airborne Forces fought in Afghanistan ??? from 86 of the year only on BTR-70 / 80, BMP-1 / 2 ... BMDs were generally withdrawn ((undermining the BMD on the 100 mine %, not repairable, cancellation, what was left)))
              2.wheel chassis, have mine protection and can cover significant distances, and having large calibers and operate independently, in isolation from the main forces ...
              Quote: avt
              , cost - efficiency "and if they will competently apply such a technique

              this is the main question --- the cost will not be small ((posted on the example of the Striker brigades)) but the efficiency will also be high ...
              Quote: avt
              Well, not as a replacement for MBT.

              I do not argue with this good just like a car, fire support ((direct-fired duval fell apart))), T-55 / 62 tank, bombard the homelesshead ...
              1. avt
                avt 17 May 2015 12: 56
                +1
                Quote: cosmos111
                1. Not everything is possible Airborne Forces of the Airborne Forces ... what were the Airborne Forces fought in Afghanistan ??? from 86 of the year only on BTR-70 / 80, BMP-1 / 2 ... BMDs were generally withdrawn ((undermining the BMD on the 100 mine %, not repairable, cancellation, what was left)))

                Who gave you a minus? And most importantly, why? Well, about Afghan - right. And why cut it constantly on BMD? We entered them quickly and that's enough - they caught up with heavy equipment. There, in general, TBMPs were needed with "Bakhcha", then there was no need to dress up the columns and tanks and the armored personnel carriers would have been, it hurts their angle for the mountains is small, and it would be just right, but ..... sad request
                Quote: cosmos111
                this is the main question --- cost

                good
                Quote: cosmos111
                ) but also the efficiency will be high ...

                No. not a fact - depending on the theater of operations at least. Yes, and the statement about the autonomy of wheeled vehicles is controversial.
                1. cosmos111
                  cosmos111 17 May 2015 14: 27
                  +1
                  Quote: avt
                  There, in general, TBMPs were needed with "Bakhcha", then there would be no need to dress up in columns and tanks, and the armored personnel carrier would have been, it was too painful for them to have a small angle for the mountains, and "Troichetka" would be just right

                  , YES "troichetka", this is a universal BM ... it would be uninhabited and it will not have a price ...
                  you can certainly refuse from the 125 mm caliber ... tanks of the homelessheads to sweep the ATGM ...
                  but is there enough power 100 mm OFS, when working on fortified positions ???
                  Quote: avt

                  not a fact - depending on the theater of operations at least. Yes and the statement about the autonomy of wheeled vehicles is controversial

                  maybe, but one Airborne Division, transplanted on wheels, it is simply necessary ...
                  quick response division ... not airborne ...
                  Yes, and the marines have large calibers, they are needed as air ((T-62 was withdrawn in exchange for ZZZ))) only 14,5 weapons were the KPVT machine gun ... you won’t get a lot of it ...
                  1. cosmos111
                    cosmos111 17 May 2015 14: 33
                    0
                    Even the computer is buggy ..

                    ATGM 8X8
                  2. cosmos111
                    cosmos111 17 May 2015 14: 37
                    0
                    BBM, for medical evacuation ...
                  3. cosmos111
                    cosmos111 17 May 2015 14: 43
                    0
                    BBM KShM, communications and management
                  4. cosmos111
                    cosmos111 17 May 2015 14: 48
                    0
                    anti-aircraft missile-gun system, type (ZRPK) "Pantsir-C1"
                    here are almost all the armored vehicles included in the structure of the light wheeled brigade
                    1. cosmos111
                      cosmos111 17 May 2015 14: 58
                      0
                      not all ...
                      artillery fire reconnaissance and control machine ..
                      Now a full-fledged light wheeled brigade ...

                      but just in case good BBM radiochemical and bacteriological intelligence ((homelessheads may have biological and chemical weapons ...
                    2. cosmos111
                      cosmos111 17 May 2015 15: 01
                      0
                      but just in case crying
                      BBM radiochemical and bacteriological reconnaissance ((homelessheads may have biological and chemical weapons)))

                      now everything soldier

                      and how much it will cost and what will be the tactics of application depends on the General Staff of the Russian Federation and the political leadership of the country ...

                      to all 3D BBM models hi respect, great job, here's the price: http: //forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php? f = 6 & t = 174213
                  5. avt
                    avt 17 May 2015 15: 36
                    +2
                    Quote: cosmos111
                    , YES "troichetka", this is a universal BM ... it would be uninhabited and it will not have a price ...

                    good
                    Quote: cosmos111
                    but is there enough power 100 mm OFS, when working on fortified positions ???

                    what In general, it would be possible to work with ammunition, again, no one has made a wunderwaffe anywhere, especially in one bottle - on one platform. That's why the means of reinforcement, the same "VIENA", "HOST", "NONA", and so on further down the hierarchy of subordination of means of reinforcement of different command levels.
                    Quote: cosmos111
                    maybe, but one Airborne Division, transplanted on wheels, it is simply necessary ...
                    quick response division ... not airborne ...

                    No. It’s better to give them a turntable on an ongoing basis - well, I already wrote - something like 101 USA.
                    Quote: cosmos111
                    Yes, and the marines are large calibers, they are needed as air (

                    recourse These are generally stepchildren now ... But there was a time when they were trained better than the fighters of the Airborne Forces divisions - according to the special forces method! By the way, they posted- ,, The Russian military-industrial complex is developing a new howitzer to equip units of the Airborne Forces (Airborne Forces ), most likely, it will be a self-propelled howitzer on a wheeled chassis, the head of the missile forces and artillery (MFA) of the RF Ground Forces Mikhail Matveyevsky said on the air of the Russian News Service radio station. "- I hope it will be 152mm
          2. Arikkhab
            Arikkhab 17 May 2015 14: 34
            +1
            In many articles, the IDF refers to the transportation of b / t on tractors ... why is it a minus? There are no railways developed in Israel, the distances are small ... then - why spoil the asphalt with tanks? it's not free. and the motor resource is not wasted
        2. wasjasibirjac
          wasjasibirjac 17 May 2015 10: 52
          +2
          Quote: avt
          And so did the Jews in Sinai and in general around them on land. Somehow they, in spite of the hardness of the ground and the need to maneuver between the three directions of a probable impact, do not particularly bother that they have a "Carrot" on the tracks and they are in no hurry to screw the wheels to it. But remind me - do they have armored personnel carriers on wheels? Well, something like "Stryker" in large quantities?
          Jewish tanks travel a couple of hundred kilometers. and that's it, Israel is over. And if you have to arrange trips a thousand miles? in this case, the wheels drive, not without reason the tanks carry such distances on tank carriers. maybe really 125-152 mm. and not required, but 100-120 mm. in wheeled battalions would not hurt.
      5. hydrox
        hydrox 17 May 2015 10: 18
        -2
        Quote: cosmos111
        , and how with IHL in Wed Asia we will fight

        It feels like our generals are going to replay 2MB ...
        And the Yankees are already concerned about the creation of REALLY mobile weapons systems, and in the pictures it can be seen.
        Okay, ours didn’t even forget the wheeled vehicles at all and it was visible at the parade, but we were shown only delivery vehicles equipped with some limited fire support equipment that weren’t able to fight even with 120-mm mortars.
        In real life, vehicles of a convoyed MARCH are needed, with the ability to deploy at any time to conduct a defensive battle (Pristina and Georgia have shown this well), but this has not yet reached the generals.
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 17 May 2015 12: 55
          0
          Quote: hydrox
          In real life, you need vehicles of a convoyed MARCH with the ability to deploy at any time to conduct a defensive battle

          but also offensive combat, to unprepared positions ...
          and so on 100% I agree good
          ((roughly speaking, 21 century cavalry, only large caliber instead of carts, BMP-30 mm gun, etc.)))
          all, wheeled armored vehicles, 125 mm, 120 mm, infantry fighting vehicles, armored personnel carriers, KShM, san ... etc ... should be combined into one team ...
      6. Aleks tv
        Aleks tv 17 May 2015 10: 24
        +2
        Quote: cosmos111
        in addition to the wheeled tank, there should be an armored MLRS, infantry fighting vehicle / armored personnel carrier, logistics vehicle, san ... armored vehicle ...
        and that's it, on a single platform ...

        Andrew,
        hi
        Plin, they talked yesterday)))
        And then Matvievsky came and ruined the FSE ...
        laughing
        The uncle is serious - steers artillery in the ground forces.
        Here the hell will understand this GS:
        - then he buys all sorts of Iveks with a screwdriver assembly, and the Centaurs chases through our landfills ...
        - then it’s all unnecessary)))
        Well, they have extremes - chtol stormy fantasy?

        The comrade made it clear that there would be no SMOOTH barrel for DIRECT support of troops.

        Well, it won’t, it won’t be so ... what to do with this GSH and GRAU ...
        At least in a nutshell, he said that they plan to put on "wheels", what kind of weapons they plan to give to the wheels.

        What do you plan to "fill" Boomerang in fact? What are going to strengthen?
        While meaningful silence.
        But if there are such interviews, then they think ... well, and then go ahead, think. You have big stripes - they think differently handy.

        ........
        ps

        One day he asks a stool at a driven training ground:
        - And why does the Centaur travel well abroad but not in Russia?
        - He is afraid of our dirt, simply shy. You, Comrade Minister of Defense, buy foreign mud abroad and scatter it over landfills - the Centaur will calm down and will definitely go ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. cosmos111
          cosmos111 17 May 2015 10: 59
          +3
          Lesh and good day to you hi

          I will continue my thought ... we need a full-fledged brigade, rapid deployment of the "Stryker" type brigades ...

          but, this is a very expensive pleasure ... the cost of 6 teams 12-15 billion $$$
          12 billion $$$ includes 6 teams worth 1,5 billion dollars and auxiliary equipment and 3 billion $$$ at MILCON (military construction)
          the remaining 3 billion $$$ is associated with price increases and unforeseen expenses ...
          Quote: Aleks tv
          what to do with this GSH and GRAU.

          In my opinion, they "think" by the place on which they sit....
          well, what world experience teaches, who really HEAD thinks ...
          Ratel Logistics 8x8 for supplying troops during raid operations
          1. cosmos111
            cosmos111 17 May 2015 11: 21
            0
            and why do I have the Icelandic flag ??? request

            I’ll continue, the Americans, were not the first to come up with a brigade on a single wheeled chassis ...
            with various weapons modules ...

            the Americans simply adopted the experience of South Africa ((before the appearance of the "Striker" they did not have wheeled armored combat vehicles at all, 8x8, only in the Lav-25 KMP)))

            and everything on a single wheeled chassis of the "Ratel" armored vehicle
            1. avt
              avt 17 May 2015 11: 49
              +1
              Quote: cosmos111
              Americans just adopted the experience of South Africa

              Well, the armored personnel carrier - the forerunners of MRAP, is also from there. However, returning to wheeled vehicles for light crews -
              Quote: cosmos111
              if you create a brigade on a wheeled chassis like "Stayker" then everything is logical ...

              Well, it’s logical - no doubt. And in life?
              Quote: cosmos111
              rapid deployment team, flipped IL-76, in a few hours ...

              Only here for this case -
              Quote: avt
              All the same can be done with the caterpillar equipment of the Airborne Forces that are being adopted, especially since it is precisely the Airborne Forces that are engaged in such operations in fact.

              Led by the Shaman, who, according to his statement, fought on caterpillars all the last time and does not want to get down - such a retrograde laughing .Ko yesterday's war is preparing? wassat . That's what comes out -
              Quote: cosmos111
              I will continue my thought ... we need a full-fledged brigade, rapid deployment of the "Stryker" type brigades ...

              but, this is a very expensive pleasure ... the cost of 6 teams 12-15 billion $$$
              12 billion $$$ includes 6 teams worth 1,5 billion dollars and auxiliary equipment and 3 billion $$$ at MILCON (military construction)
              the remaining 3 billion $$$ is associated with price increases and unforeseen expenses ...

              request If
              Quote: avt
              Wheels with heavy weapons for "light" brigades, and such a structure has the right to be, will win with a real advantage in the criterion "cost-effectiveness" and if such equipment is used correctly. Well, not as a replacement for MBT.
              1. cosmos111
                cosmos111 17 May 2015 13: 20
                +1
                Quote: avt
                A shaman who, according to his statement, has fought on caterpillars all the last time and does not want to get down - such a retrograde

                not always
                Quote: cosmos111
                Airborne in Afghanistan ??? from 86 of the year only on the BTR-70 / 80, BMP-1 / 2 ..

                secondly, logistics will be provided by wheeled vehicles
                as is customary with us, unarmored and without mine protection, simple KamAZ trucks and Urals, which will lead to losses of both people and cargo...
                Quote: avt
                ,, cost - efficiency

                it must be considered, but high-quality cheap, not when it does not happen ...
                and light brigades are needed ... and this is not only SR.Asia, but also peacekeeping operations ((jerk of the Airborne Forces in Pristen and occupation of the airfield, arrogant saxes and Americans on the goose were stupidly late, after which they began to arm themselves with wheeled armored vehicles))) .. .

                the main thing is mobility + a large motor resource, and this is money and not small ...

                stiker brigade ((although in structure and armament it is far from ideal)))
                клик

                1. avt
                  avt 17 May 2015 14: 33
                  +2
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  must be considered

                  Exactly !
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  but quality is cheap, when it doesn’t happen.

                  but high cost is not a guarantee of quality request
                  Quote: cosmos111
                  but also offensive combat, to unprepared positions ...

                  Quote: cosmos111
                  ((roughly speaking, 21 century cavalry, only large caliber instead of carts, BMP-30 mm gun, etc.)))

                  what It's all beautiful of course ... especially against the backdrop of jihadmobiles. But if it’s an adult on the scale of our army, then it’s better to spend money NOW on turntables and military coordination with the Airborne Forces in the framework of what the Amer did with the 101st division long ago. hurrying to cut out of the promising "Boomerang" .... And why only from the "Boomerang"?
                  1. cosmos111
                    cosmos111 17 May 2015 15: 21
                    +1
                    Quote: avt
                    ..particularly against jihadmobiles

                    in Syria, clearly lacking modern wheeled armored vehicles and BMP-T ...
                    Quote: avt
                    .The shaman does what he wants for the Airborne Forces, personal "turntables

                    then it’s better to immediately Corps Airborne Forces, with its aircraft, armored vehicles, etc.
                    but it’s obviously not pulling ...
                    Quote: avt
                    h ,, Boomeranga "? It is possible on the basis of the Typhoon

                    if "Typhoon" costs more than 1 ml of $$$, then how much will Boomerang cost about 3 $$$, no less ...
                    and the main question, when did mass production be launched ???
                    I agree with you "Typhoon" KAMAZ-63969, more suitable for the role of a multipurpose armored vehicle ...
                    1. avt
                      avt 17 May 2015 15: 47
                      +2
                      Quote: cosmos111
                      then it’s better to immediately Corps Airborne Forces, with its aircraft, armored vehicles, etc.
                      but it’s obviously not pulling ...

                      But they are already in fact a quick reaction corps subordinate to the Supreme, for which they Makarov and his predecessor after Pasha hated and tried to transfer to the combined arms command, and if they can then bring heavy combined-arms equipment from the storage warehouse, then a well-coordinated aviation unit including helicopter ones under the commander of the airborne forces - an urgent need.
                    2. strannik1985
                      strannik1985 10 June 2015 10: 14
                      0
                      As far as I know, Typhoon is not intended for operations at the forefront, all multifunctionality - delivery of cargo and cargo in the conditions of the near rear or conflict a la Chechnya - is not too high a price for a car whose functions are successfully performed by a truck with an attached reservation kit (in Since 2003, Chechnya have been rare raids, mainly undermining) and mine protection?
        3. hydrox
          hydrox 17 May 2015 11: 52
          +1
          Quote: Aleks tv
          What do you plan to "fill" Boomerang in fact? What are going to strengthen?
          While meaningful silence.

          Not meaningful, but confused. There are no arguments and facts pro vs contra, there are no even hints of the concept of "maneuver + fire", but even when the Debaltsevo cauldron slammed shut by the militia (!), The need for a quick maneuver (several hours!) To eliminate the breakthrough of the APU troops when leaving the cauldron could easily be done if there was a battalion of wheeled self-propelled guns of not the largest caliber, placed on the flank of the breakthrough.
          And now, positional wars are nowhere to be fought and I think that they will never be fought again.
        4. Bad_gr
          Bad_gr 17 May 2015 23: 34
          +2
          Quote: Aleks tv
          Here the hell will understand this GS:
          - then he buys all sorts of Iveks with a screwdriver assembly, and the Centaurs chases through our landfills ...
          - then it’s all unnecessary)))
          Well, they have extremes - chtol stormy fantasy?

          Alex, good evening!
          As I understand it, our military does not give up powerful guns on a wheeled drive, but refuse a wheeled tank. That is: from cars with a smoothbore gun, high energy. In other words, anti-tank.
          A type of "Nona", "veins" on the wheel drive may well appear.
          1. Aleks tv
            Aleks tv 18 May 2015 00: 58
            +1
            Quote: Bad_gr
            As I understand it, our military does not give up powerful guns on a wheeled drive, but refuse a wheeled tank. That is: from cars with a smoothbore gun, high energy. In other words, anti-tank.

            Good to hear, Vladimir.
            hi
            Yeah, the same thoughts.
            They are not interested in the fire at the range of the Direct Shot, but only Art.
            This is not bad and not good - just decided so.
            So the PT weapon will be different ... ahem - for any shot it’s not cheap.
            wink
    3. Sakmagon
      Sakmagon 17 May 2015 08: 58
      +16
      The author seems to regret:
      work on the wheeled version of the heavy armored vehicle - the wheeled tank destroyer "Sting-C" - was carried out in the Soviet Union. However, even then the work on the program was curtailed, and the production of armored vehicles did not manage to become serial ...

      A simple analysis of the information on the combat use of wheeled tanks with heavy weapons shows that their existence as one of the modern (promising) means is very doubtful. So, offhand from different places:
      - the mobility of wheeled BT is 23-47%, and in the period of spring and autumn thawing it decreases in some cases to 5-11%. For tracked BT, mobility is not lower than 48%;
      - it is impossible to achieve the required level of armor protection within the mass from 16 to 24 t .;
      - an advantage in speed - such cars do not ride alone. A speed pillars is 30-40 km / h, on paved roads - 40-50 km / h. When the column moves at night, the speed is limited to 20-25 km / h, while moving in the conditions of light masking it is limited to 10 km / h. And do not care whether you are on wheels or on geese.
      hi
      Shamanov: “... the Afghan experience, and the experience of three Caucasian campaigns clearly showed that wheeled vehicles behave capriciously even in medium-rugged terrain ... all the wars in which paratroopers have been involved in the last 30 years have clearly shown when the wheels "they drive off the highway to rough terrain, they immediately begin to have problems."
      1. vladkavkaz
        vladkavkaz 17 May 2015 11: 16
        +3
        Sacmagon (
        Something from the experience of driving columns, starting with the GSVG, where our regulation company spent five years carrying out columns, day, night, in any conditions, the speed of the wheel column was limited only by the order of the commander on the march.
        And the company’s convoy, we didn’t go badly at 70-80 km of speed either, on an armored personnel carrier.
        Repeatedly observed and the speed of German military convoys - at least 60 km / h and intervals in the convoy were observed perfectly and strangers did not meddle in the convoy were immediately kicked out of there in the natural sense of the word.
        Dirt roads, over landfills and so there you can’t accelerate along the tank route ..
        Primers, the trouble is that the directions are used both by tanks and wheels, the result is where the tank went, the wheels got up.
        Chechnya showed it, but where there were tank routes, at least a hundred meters away from the wheeled, there were no problems.
    4. Grandfather bear
      Grandfather bear 17 May 2015 09: 15
      +5
      Well, mulberries have one "but".
      The first is personal experience. If it were not for the BRDM arriving at the point 35 minutes faster than the "fifty" I would not have written here. Fact.
      Everything about landscapes is talked about here, but on the border with Kazakhstan? And the CSTO countries? The landscapes there are completely different. Or will we broaden the tracks and change the armies of the army, if so? How long will it take? Yes, and the speed of the breakthrough will decrease by multiple, I love. Read about Khalkhin goal. About the defeat of the Kwantung army in the recollections of tankers.
      And peacekeeping, say in Africa?
      In the geyrop?
      Anything can be. Of course, it is not worth storming the release of hundreds of wheeled vehicles. But, to have a backlog and a project, a certain amount of "for a rainy day" is quite businesslike.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 17 May 2015 10: 42
        +4
        Quote: Grandfather Bear
        , a certain amount of "on a rainy day" - quite businesslike.

        Reasonably, I support.
        Now we need to leave Armata alone (we have been provided with the main tank for 50 years, there is no need to stare further), but the wheel platform of the UNIFIED modular designer already needs to be dealt with today, taking into account, first of all, not combat contact, but the DISTANCE and COLLECTIVITY of the SPG destructive factor. Much has already been produced for direct support and delivery of infantry to the battlefield, but we do not have the means to implement the principle of "maneuver and fire" for a medium caliber. The coalition is good, but the jibs do not allow it to OPERATIVELY maneuver, towed by the D-30 and others like it is generally a defenseless anachronism that does not allow teamwork.
        So here to work and work ...
    5. hydrox
      hydrox 17 May 2015 09: 52
      +1
      Quote: rotmistr60
      but they have a different purpose.

      Well I do not know ...
      The mass production of AMX also says a lot, at least the running gear of wheeled vehicles is several times greater, as is the 3 times higher speed of movement and change of position. This, in turn, means a higher coefficient of firepower when maneuvering along the front and its rapid amplification in the preparation of offensive operations or reflection of a breakthrough.
      I'm not talking about the need to equip the airborne landing craft with more powerful fire support equipment, but it all depends on the concept of using the Airborne Forces and the Russian Military Doctrine.
      And then, this is not a technique for ensuring positional warfare, there will be no more such wars, but the principle of "maneuver and fire" has not yet been canceled: armored vehicles have not been driven through the swamps during the Second World War, and the state of the road network in Russia has been only improved - here's a "maneuver and fire", especially for the Coalition-SV.
      1. SkiF_RnD
        SkiF_RnD 17 May 2015 10: 45
        +3
        armored vehicles in the swamps and in the Second World War did not drive


        None of the wheels to pick up such shit per kilometer. And in Russia, more than half of the territories for wheeled chassis are impassable.
        1. hydrox
          hydrox 17 May 2015 12: 00
          +2
          What is shown in your picture is a defenseless target for an attack helicopter and the headlessness of commanders who studied poorly even at school, not like at the Academy.
          By the way, the price of a wheeled self-propelled gun will be 5 times lower than the price of a tank, and the production cycle is about 3 times shorter.
        2. twviewer
          twviewer 17 May 2015 16: 07
          +2
          Quote: SkiF_RnD
          And in Russia, more than half of the territories for wheeled chassis are impassable.

          strange logic, however, what is wrong with the fact that 7-8 standard armored personnel carriers will have one with a "gun"?
          or have you already transplanted all the infantry to tanks?
          1. twviewer
            twviewer 17 May 2015 16: 31
            +2
            .
            1. twviewer
              twviewer 17 May 2015 17: 01
              +3

              here is a Japanese wheeled tank, at the end of the video shooting under 90 "outright :)
    6. Civil
      Civil 17 May 2015 16: 38
      0
      Christy's wheeled tank is immediately remembered
  2. pensioner
    pensioner 17 May 2015 08: 45
    +4
    And if you do purely for export? Really will not be sold?
    1. Simon
      Simon 17 May 2015 09: 16
      +2
      If the customer orders, why not request
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 17 May 2015 10: 45
      0
      Quote: retired
      Really will not be sold?

      If it is a Coalition on wheels (at least a 100-graph paper), the line to Ryazan will line up!
  3. Kos_kalinki9
    Kos_kalinki9 17 May 2015 08: 45
    +13
    At present, it’s probably not worth spraying a budget. And so there are tons of good and necessary undertakings and reserves. It is impossible to embrace the immensity.
  4. Gardamir
    Gardamir 17 May 2015 08: 50
    0
    Maybe I'm mistaken, but the idea of ​​wheeled tanks from Italy arose under Serdyukovschina.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 17 May 2015 08: 54
      +6
      After 8.8.8. When the same group of 45 smallpox met with the armored group of Georgians and there were big problems, because 45 only had armored personnel carriers-80. And other groups in the breakthrough on wheels walked quite carefully, precisely because there was no gain.

      The idea came from there, to give wheeled units (and later developed into the idea of ​​creating completely wheeled brigades with wheeled artillery, armored personnel carriers, infantry fighting vehicles and tanks) wheeled tanks and artillery to solve the entire spectrum of problems in the face of a fast breakthrough.
    2. Simon
      Simon 17 May 2015 09: 18
      +4
      Serdyukov is well versed in stools, and not in tanks, well, also in women. lol
      1. Kos_kalinki9
        Kos_kalinki9 17 May 2015 11: 28
        0
        hi And in money, meaning money.
  5. Prank
    Prank 17 May 2015 08: 50
    +1
    Major General clarified the situation on the radio station
    the essence of the presentation is brief:
    This is the school of Solomon Plyar,
    Ballroom school, they say.
    Two steps to the left, two steps to the right,
    Step forward and two back.
  6. Arh
    Arh 17 May 2015 08: 50
    +1
    If it works out well, you can create competition in a series and in other countries !!!
  7. gcn
    gcn 17 May 2015 08: 51
    +1
    If the USSR abandoned that engineering human resource, it is probably justified
  8. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 17 May 2015 08: 53
    +3
    For export, systems that are not in service (and have not proven themselves) are not very much taken. And to us, off-road, cross-country, etc. - probably you really don't need a wheeled tank. All the same, this is a "nedotank", an anti-guerrilla vehicle, not for a serious war.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 17 May 2015 09: 05
      +6
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      And to us, off-road, cross-country, etc. - probably you really don't need a wheeled tank. All the same, it's a "nedotank"

      In general, true. If you plan to defend that on the western borders, that in the Far East, the terrain wheels are not ah. Now, if you still plan to throw to the English Channel, then along the way the roads are quite European, and wheeled vehicles can be riveted many times cheaper and faster than tracked ones.
      So let the Poles and the Balts calm down: the rollout of Russian armored columns through their territory has not yet been planned, and this news is another confirmation of this.
      1. hydrox
        hydrox 17 May 2015 10: 55
        -2
        Do you still think that modern warfare will have a continuous chain of defensive positions "in full profile" from sea to sea?
        Well, well, keep sleeping ...
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 17 May 2015 10: 53
      -2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      not for a serious war.

      Yes, you are right, this technique is not "the times of Ochakov and the conquest of the Crimea", this is a technique for mobile warfare.
      The one who is going to play a 2MB type war game (or today's Donbass) will be defeated instantly, because very stupid resources go nowhere for a stupid fart, the waste of which leads primarily to the ECONOMIC defeat of the poorer belligerent
      1. strannik1985
        strannik1985 10 June 2015 10: 01
        0
        hydrox
        Interestingly, operations up to several hundred kilometers deep are not a maneuver war. What about the development of the actions of the mechanized mechanized army of the SA in the post-war period?
        How does the type of equipment (wheeled or tracked) determine the nature of hostilities?
  9. b.t.a.
    b.t.a. 17 May 2015 08: 58
    +1
    Yes, there are probably more important tasks. Armata to enter the troops, Kurganets. If you fight in Europe, then you can use such a tank with their roads. Yes, in my opinion, such a tank was developed before the war. Well, if in the vastness of Russia, then I think it’s more convenient on the caterpillar track. To buy money for development and mass production, to fight for sales markets without confidence will be bought or not in my opinion at this time is not profitable.
  10. moskowit
    moskowit 17 May 2015 09: 01
    +1
    We are not going to fight on foreign territory, and heavy armored vehicles are not quite suitable for our natural conditions. And then we gained a lot of experience in creating heavy armored vehicles and wheeled-tracked tanks. BT-2, BT-5, BT-7, BA-5, BA-11 ...
    1. alone
      alone 17 May 2015 21: 01
      +1


      I think if this one drowned, then the wheeled one will disappear altogether))
    2. ma_shlomha
      ma_shlomha 18 May 2015 11: 54
      0
      We are not going to fight on foreign territory

      ?????

      The words of the March of Tankers before the war:

      The thunder of fire, sparkling with the brilliance of steel
      The cars will go on a furious campaign,
      When Comrade Stalin sends us into battle
      And Voroshilov will lead us into battle!

      Let the enemy who hid in ambush remember
      We are on the alert, we are watching the enemy.
      We do not want any land,
      But we will not give up ours.


      Words during the war:
      Thundering with fire, sparkling with the brilliance of steel,
      Cars are going on a furious campaign.
      Comrade Stalin sent us to formidable battle,
      Favorite marshal bravely leads into battle.

      The enemy will burn in the fire of freedom,
      He will be beat everywhere and everywhere!
      The full gas is powered by motors
      And in the forests, ravines and water.
  11. Lumumba
    Lumumba 17 May 2015 09: 03
    +14
    No freeway tank needed
  12. Crown
    Crown 17 May 2015 09: 06
    +1
    They would sell for export, and jobs.
  13. Lumumba
    Lumumba 17 May 2015 09: 07
    +2
    But the Japanese have come up with a foot tank
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 17 May 2015 09: 30
      0
      Like the Japanese? Is something created in dill, no?
  14. fomkin
    fomkin 17 May 2015 09: 10
    +5
    Do not tell grandfather. Another article weighs that the tank will be soon. There will be no tank on the next day. And who will believe the statements. Personally, I no longer believe.
  15. AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich 17 May 2015 09: 10
    +4
    Well, I don’t know what to say. It seems like we tested the Centaurus, and the result is so-so ...
    On the other hand, it seems like the Marines need a car ... A tank may never come out ...
    Looking forward to the incarnation of Nonna-ICS?
  16. Tusv
    Tusv 17 May 2015 09: 11
    +2
    And thank God.
    They didn’t give a chance to cut loot on the prodigy named after Serdyukov
  17. x587x
    x587x 17 May 2015 09: 13
    +4
    Wherever the wheeled unit passes, the tracked unit will definitely pass. And not everywhere where the tracked vehicles can pass the wheeled vehicle (we do not take into account the swamp vehicles on low pressure tires). So to produce "tanks" on a wheel drive is a waste of money. IMHO
    1. Alexander 3
      Alexander 3 17 May 2015 09: 34
      +1
      I agree with you. Russia is a big country where there are all kinds of terrain, tracked vehicles are universal. And Europe is used to driving along the highway. Let them drive there.
  18. Alexdark
    Alexdark 17 May 2015 09: 16
    +2
    Give a compromise solution. Both caterpillars and wheels at the same time! You can also fasten the wheelset from the train. We hide all this under the bottom, and put forward if necessary using hydraulics.
  19. Bayonet
    Bayonet 17 May 2015 09: 16
    +6
    If we consider it as a promising theater of operations from the Urals and further to Siberia, then yes - the tracks are better.
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 17 May 2015 16: 33
      +2
      You can see right away that you are not familiar with the staffing of the manning divisions of the BBO and ZVO. Artillery predominates in the BBO and armored vehicles in the West Military District. And in general, heavy armored vehicles in the swamps and taiga are not very useful.
    2. wanderer_032
      wanderer_032 18 May 2015 17: 13
      +1
      Quote: Bayonet
      If you consider it as a promising theater of operations from the Urals and further to Siberia, then yes - caterpillars are better.












      A variety of cargoes are transported through the taiga in the Urals. Including the forest. Such a timber carrier rushes on itself 15-20 cubic meters of forest (1 cubic meter of raw wood, pr. 750 kg) off-road.
      And these are just trucks. So all the creeping on the fact that the wheels are bullshit, everyone who says it just doesn’t know anything about it.
      1. wanderer_032
        wanderer_032 18 May 2015 17: 41
        +1
        Further. If ordinary trucks used in the national economy go off-road this way, what can we say about full-fledged military equipment.
        Better to just see.



        This is an APC in a complete "ass". He got out of it in just 10 minutes.



        Moving on the "intersection". Overcoming natural and artificial obstacles.



        On the bed of a mountain river.



        UNSH-10 and BRDM-2 are moving along the "intersection".



        BTR-90 movement along the range with overcoming obstacles.
  20. shinobi
    shinobi 17 May 2015 09: 25
    +2
    Wheeled combat vehicles are good on European theater. They have a road network for sight. But the wheels have a natural limitation on armor. That is, they are good only in police actions when the enemy has no serious weapons. The same French wheels in Africa could not withstand hits from Soviet DShK .So that...
    1. hydrox
      hydrox 17 May 2015 12: 15
      +1
      Quote: shinobi
      The same French wheels in Africa could not withstand hits from the Soviet DShK.

      Interestingly, and which headless uses a wheeled self-propelled guns as a tank, bringing contact to the distance DShK?
  21. Lenin
    Lenin 17 May 2015 09: 25
    +2
    That's right, are we going to fight only on asphalt roads ????
  22. Tusv
    Tusv 17 May 2015 09: 25
    +1
    Well, tell me the advantages of a "wheeled" tank?
    Toli case tank estate of Sergeant Bilko
    I drank the budget. For God's sake
  23. Cruorvult
    Cruorvult 17 May 2015 09: 29
    +3
    Personally, in my opinion, the author confuses the concepts of a wheeled tank and a light wheeled gun platform. IMHO in the world there was not a single wheeled tank, and to call a tank (tank destroyer) BTR / BMP with a gun is nonsense. So I agree with the RF Armed Forces that we don’t need a wheeled tank, but it’s quite possible to have a medium / light gun platform based on the Kurganets / Boomerang, similar to Sprut.
  24. Tusv
    Tusv 17 May 2015 09: 49
    +5
    Tremble
    http://topwar.ru/uploads/images/2015/241/zcqw593.png
  25. rus-5819
    rus-5819 17 May 2015 09: 51
    0
    The conditions in our theater (theater of operations - approx. “VO”) are such that not everywhere you can drive successfully.

    And the roads to Berlin and Brussels are just good! But, "we do not want an inch of foreign land" And that is why it is probably correct, in the mass such a tank is not needed.
  26. nagel_Oz
    nagel_Oz 17 May 2015 10: 31
    +2
    The wheeled chassis has a weight limit, so a full-fledged classic tank will not work out of such a machine.
    Practice, the criterion of truth: There are not many examples of wheeled tanks, and what was shown at the parade in my opinion fully satisfy the tasks of the army.
  27. Evil 55
    Evil 55 17 May 2015 10: 42
    0
    Wheel tank destroyers, I agree ... But a full-fledged tank on a wheeled chassis is a fantasy.
  28. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 17 May 2015 10: 56
    +1
    Wheel tanks start small countries with a developed road network or with a climate favorable for them, this is necessary for the rapid transfer of small armed forces to considerable distances on their own.
    We have strategic and operational transfers carried out by airplanes and railways, with the idea being such, they are transferring personnel, and the equipment is already waiting at the storage bases. On its own, equipment is moved only within the district, from the unloading station (storage base) to the places of concentration.
    Therefore, we can only be a consumer of a wheeled tank of the airborne forces and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, the army does not really need such equipment, with proper organization and management. Conventional tanks (the T-72, T-80, T-64 family) can be transported by the An-124 (3 pieces each), information has appeared that the Airborne Forces will have its own tank unit, but the Ministry of Internal Affairs (based on the experience of Chechnya) is quietly attached to army tank units .
    Conclusion, a wheeled tank is such a "Mistral" for our armored vehicles, of course an interesting thing, but there is no urgent need for it, and money can be spent on more necessary things.
  29. bocsman
    bocsman 17 May 2015 11: 57
    +1
    Quote: Nick
    Quote: donavi49
    There was another meaning, in the strengthening of wheel joints. A caterpillar tank, even a light one, will not be able to keep the speed on the march, but a wheeled one on one platform can qualitatively strengthen the wheel connection in a breakthrough, for example.

    The idea of ​​creating such compounds took shape after Georgia. When all kinds of special forces on the BTR-80 went into the breakthrough and could not give them anything to strengthen.


    And what are helicopters and attack aircraft for?!?

    I think, nevertheless, wheeled tanks will be produced here. At the initiative of enterprises, as an export option, and then possibly in the Russian army, as has happened more than once with some models of military equipment.
    All these are stillborn ideas. At least for now. The tracked platform as a medium for medium and large caliber artillery is more reliable and, most importantly, more stable and versatile than a wheeled one.
  30. Nehist
    Nehist 17 May 2015 14: 02
    +1
    At one time in South Africa, where by the way there were not many roads either (as I don’t know now) Wheeled self-propelled guns proved to be the best. Here a lot depends on the theater of operations, in wetlands, wheeled vehicles are preferable. All the same, even our Poplars are on wheels and not on psalms, which again proves that wheeled self-propelled guns have the right to life
    1. x587x
      x587x 17 May 2015 17: 27
      0
      Poplars move on known soils.
    2. cosmos111
      cosmos111 17 May 2015 17: 51
      +1
      Quote: Nehist
      At one time in South Africa, where by the way there were not many roads either (as I don’t know now) Wheeled self-propelled guns proved to be the best.

      etet for sure good

      armored car of fire support Sandok-Ostrel "Rooikat" ..
      its purpose is deep reconnaissance and the fight against armored vehicles ....
  31. Bene valete
    Bene valete 17 May 2015 15: 18
    0
    Quote: SkiF_RnD
    armored vehicles in the swamps and in the Second World War did not drive


    None of the wheels to pick up such shit per kilometer. And in Russia, more than half of the territories for wheeled chassis are impassable.


    In the photo, the tanks just "arrived" ... And the wheels are super on the swampy terrain.
    From the comments on something that is not clear ... we are talking about Russian roads, swamps, we are going to fight on our territory again ...?)))
    1. Nehist
      Nehist 17 May 2015 16: 24
      +1
      Well, we are a peace-loving country! First, as always, we’ll get the Lyuli, we’ll grunt a stack and go to the city to Paris, well, or somewhere else :) There are a lot of swamps in Canada! :)
  32. Saratoga833
    Saratoga833 17 May 2015 15: 56
    +3
    In my opinion, it is impossible to unambiguously decide - tracked or wheeled. Each has its own niche. If you approach wisely, then both tracked and wheeled vehicles will have their own task. There is no universal technique! Each machine is designed to solve its problems in very specific conditions. I think that wheeled vehicles will have a place in the Russian Armed Forces. Not to the detriment of the tracked.
  33. Pomah
    Pomah 17 May 2015 16: 12
    +2
    It will be difficult for Nuland to convince everyone that Russia is going to attack the Middle East ... and we don’t need wheeled tanks ...

    For example, the Japanese found tanks with a device for moving along the railway tracks of the Soviet gauge, which became one of the evidence of the intentions of the militarist military of Japan !!!!
  34. Vladimir111
    Vladimir111 17 May 2015 22: 40
    0
    A wheeled tank has the right to life reconnaissance, patrol, sabotage, escort. Heavy breakthrough, wheel bypass while the adversary butts heavy.
  35. Mentat
    Mentat 17 May 2015 22: 44
    0
    Quote: cosmos111
    wheeled chassis have mine protection and can cover significant distances, and having large calibers and operate autonomously, in isolation from the main forces ...

    Everything mixed up: centaurs, strikers, tanks (horses rode nearby) :)
    You brought pictures self propelled, in what other separation from the main forces will they operate autonomously ??

    If we are talking about a wheeled tank, it has poor cross-country ability in our conditions. In addition, due to stability issues, the choice of guns and calibers for such a platform is limited, and maneuverability in combat is even more limited. A wheeled tank is essentially a special technique, it is not very similar to MBT and is not intended for combat with MBT. The logic of its application is “hit-run”, but this requires roads or dense, even ground, or the suppression of weakly mechanized enemy clusters (dushman in the bush)), but a whole series of existing models of equipment can handle this well.
    T.O. The concept of a wheeled tank is redundant for Russian conditions.

    Since Russia does not currently plan mass military operations abroad, in conditions where such special equipment would be widely used, the wheeled platform is not optimal.
    Create the same technique only for export is not optimal in a cube.
  36. TsUS-Air Force
    TsUS-Air Force 17 May 2015 22: 58
    0
    it seems to me better reinforced armored personnel carrier of some sort than such a massive car as a wheeled TANK
  37. Zomanus
    Zomanus 18 May 2015 06: 33
    0
    At the parade, something passed wheeled from the new ones. And the light platforms on the tracks are not much inferior in speed to the wheels, I think. So tanks on wheels really are not really needed. It must be understood that those countries where wheeled tanks operate are located in almost the same climate zone throughout the country. And this is a very comfortable area ...
  38. Havoc
    Havoc 18 May 2015 19: 23
    0
    The vast majority of wheeled tanks, if not all, cannot shoot from the side projection, the tank will simply flip.
  39. iAi
    iAi 18 May 2015 21: 13
    0
    There is a wheeled tank: Nona-SVK. Yes, only for infantry. So what? But, maybe because of the horizon shoot.
    There is a tracked Sprud-SD.
    They cover needs.
  40. strannik1985
    strannik1985 10 June 2015 09: 44
    0
    Quote: cosmos111
    Lesh and good day to you hi

    I will continue my thought ... we need a full-fledged brigade, rapid deployment of the "Stryker" type brigades ...

    but, this is a very expensive pleasure ... the cost of 6 teams 12-15 billion $$$
    12 billion $$$ includes 6 teams worth 1,5 billion dollars and auxiliary equipment and 3 billion $$$ at MILCON (military construction)
    the remaining 3 billion $$$ is associated with price increases and unforeseen expenses ...
    Quote: Aleks tv
    what to do with this GSH and GRAU.

    In my opinion, they "think" by the place on which they sit....
    well, what world experience teaches, who really HEAD thinks ...
    Ratel Logistics 8x8 for supplying troops during raid operations

    Given the global experience? South Africa refused such cars (EMNIP 2 models were built) in favor of protected trucks.
    Naturally, it is necessary to take into account world experience, but with regard to Russian conditions. In South Africa, the savannah, a relatively dry and hot climate, can not be compared with Russian impassability.
  41. strannik1985
    strannik1985 10 June 2015 13: 31
    0
    Quote: avt
    Quote: cosmos111
    then it’s better to immediately Corps Airborne Forces, with its aircraft, armored vehicles, etc.
    but it’s obviously not pulling ...

    But they are already in fact a quick reaction corps subordinate to the Supreme, for which they Makarov and his predecessor after Pasha hated and tried to transfer to the combined arms command, and if they can then bring heavy combined-arms equipment from the storage warehouse, then a well-coordinated aviation unit including helicopter ones under the commander of the airborne forces - an urgent need.

    There is one nuance technique of the Airborne Forces being developed taking into account airborne desantination or air transportability. For example, at the end of the 70s, airborne aircraft from the Moscow Military District were transferred by BTA planes over 5 km to the border with China. Helicopters under their own power at such distances will quickly kill engines, how many heavy cargo vehicles we can take Mi-500?
    In the Union, until the end of the 70s (the second wave of the formation of LHF) there was a clear separation of airborne forces used in large airborne airborne forces (150-300 km in a non-nuclear conflict and up to 500 in the nuclear one), LHD in TakVD (company up to 10 km and up to 3 hours) for an operation, a battalion of up to 50 km and from 6 hours to 2 days), in the operational-tactical landing-DShBr (up to 100 km). At the same time, the tasks of the Airborne Forces are carried out by l / s of motorized rifle units, from VD-l / s of DShBr (they included their own helicopters, 132 vehicles per brigade, planned 1 brigade per HE, but until the end of the 80s there were only 3 for the entire Union). When forming 2 waves of juvenile infantry fighting forces, they did stupid things, disbanded 105 VDD (ironically, the most prepared for operations in Afghanistan), did a bunch of brigades, separate battalions, regiments for which there was simply no equipment, entered the battalion on the BMD which before the Mi-26 there was nothing to transfer. As a result, it was necessary to prepare a salvo for parachute transfer (the number of jumping battalions increased from 80 to 160, not counting the DDR of the MSD / TD ORB).
    Now there are no air assault units with their helicopters in the RF Armed Forces, their creation, even in the structure of the airborne forces, will be a big plus, but their effective use requires better interaction with the air forces (which always had problems), l / s of such units do not need to be taught jumping with parachutes (in 1968 a battalion was prepared for TakVD in 1,5 hours), they need their own equipment (weight up to 4 tons, and preferably 2-2,5, so that the Mi-8 can be transferred, with removable weapons and communications, is desirable own repair within an hour).