The engine of the near future

41


When disputes about the prospects of the Russian defense industry reach tank industries, alarmists, as always, use a standard set of arguments. First of all, these are claims to “endless” upgrades of the “obsolete” T-90 and moaning about the Black Eagle tank, which, in their opinion, must go into series. Otherwise, everything is gone.



Still sometimes it is necessary to hear claims on a subject of engines. They say that a new diesel engine for Russian tanks has already been developed and is being developed for more than 20 years, but it will not be developed at all. And already on the basis of this statement, a whole logical construction is erected on the topic ... You know yourself what it is.

Only these very alarmists can only be called amateurs of technology, and professionals are directly involved in the development. Tank engines in our country are designed by professionals from the Chelyabinsk State Design Bureau Transdizel. It would be logical to ask about representatives of the enterprise on the topic of the engines of the future, and not on various amateur experts.

This issue and attended to the magazine “Arsenal. Military Industrial Review. In the fifth issue of the magazine for the current year, the words of the general director of Transdizel V. Murzin were quoted, according to which the new 2В series engine, designated А-85-3, already exists and has passed the whole series of tests, from endurance to running. At the time of the interview was made 16 new engines.



Recently, Transdiesel GSK has published the characteristics of the A-85-3 engine (sometimes referred to as 2А12-3, 12ЧНХ15 / 16 or 12Н360). This is a diesel four-stroke engine with liquid cooling. 12 cylinders are arranged in an X-shaped pattern and have a total volume of almost 35 liters. There is a gas turbine turbocharger. The mixture is formed by direct fuel injection. The compression ratio in the cylinders is 11. A-85-3 gives up to 2000 rpm. and develops rated power in 1500 hp If you use boost, the engine can produce up to 2,2 ths. Hp This indicates the possibility of "removing" boost, which reduces the power to 1200-1300 hp, but significantly increases engine life.

Let's face it, the characteristics are decent. However, the question arises: why these engines do not put on, for example, the new version of the T-90 with the letters "MS" in the title? In theory, this should further improve the tank: the modernization of any military equipment now, of course, still requires improvements not only in electronic equipment, but also in the mechanical parts of the machine. Of course, you can do so. If it were not for one "but." The A-85-3 engine was originally designed as a completely new power plant for completely new tanks, such as the upcoming Armata. You can equip them and T-90, but this step may not justify itself. Something similar was already in the middle of 80's. Then on an experienced tank "Object 187" tried to install the 16-cylinder X-shaped engine. The attempt in a constructive manner was a success, but it never went into a series. The fact is that the 2B-16 engine demanded large-sized radiators, which affected the size of the entire stern of the car. Maybe the “new thing” in some senses was worth it, but economically and technologically it turned out to be unprofitable. Subsequent work showed that diesel engines are more powerful than the 1600-1650 HP. they require a radiator of such size that it is much easier and more profitable to install a less fastidious engine, even at the cost of reducing power. And do not forget that existing engines, for example, the B-92C2 of the T-90 tank, fully meet current requirements and do not have serious complaints. On this occasion, we can recall the tests of the T-90С tank in Malaysia. Then the tanks drove on all types of roads, over rough terrain, in sand and flooded rice fields, they forced water barriers to a depth of one and a half meters and kept the engines idling for 8 hours. And all this in tropical conditions: temperatures around 40 ° and humidity up to 90-95%. After all these mockeries, the engines remained in a satisfactory condition, and all the problems could be eliminated by the crew using a portable set of spare parts.



Another argument against updating the power plant "old" tanks. Research in the field of engine building for armored vehicles has shown that in real-world operating conditions, the engine that provides power density within 20-25 hp / t is the most effective economically and technically. A smaller number of "horses" per ton of weight of the machine will not give the tank the desired mobility, and more will lead to overruns of fuel. For the T-90 tank with its 46 tons of combat weight, the thousand-engine B-92C2 engine and power density around 21-22 hp / t is enough.

So, on tanks already mastered in production, it is possible and necessary to leave those engines that already have or, in the long run, put on them modernized versions of “old” engines. And the motor A-85-3, as already mentioned, will be installed on promising machines.

But you can not get around and a fly in the ointment: why did the work on the engine took two decades? The answer is obvious: the first half of this period fell on the "merry" 90-s with their "love" for the defense complex and the stable and traditional underfunding. The consequences of those times are also felt in the engine industry. So, for example, V. Murzin, in 2007 year, in the corporate journal of the GSKB Transdizel noted that domestic engines are lagging behind foreign engines in the field of fuel and air supply systems. It is the development of these engine parts that allows foreign developers to improve the performance of the 70-80-s development engines of the last century to an acceptable level today. In addition, there is a clear trend abroad for the development of high-speed diesel engines with a relatively small volume. Murzin believes that it’s only possible to catch up with competitors in air and fuel systems only by creating separate design bureaus that will only deal with this “part” of engine building.

However, these are questions, even the closest, but the future, and A-85-3 is ready for mass production.
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  1. +5
    9 October 2011 14: 30
    If you put a new engine in a deformed version on the T-90, then the specific power will increase to 26-28 hp / t. which is close to optimal, besides, IMHO should significantly increase the speed and maneuverability of the T-90, and in the case of four-four tons of additional reservations you can hang, it is better to protect the crew and the most vulnerable spots of the tank.
    1. +3
      6 November 2016 08: 35
      under a more powerful engine, a new transmission should be just so you can’t put up the armor either; the transmission can pull on.
  2. sirToad
    +4
    9 October 2011 14: 37
    but it will not be easier to develop a new engine and a new car than to fit a new engine to the old model?
    1. +4
      9 October 2011 15: 27
      I think that it’s not easier, although I do not say so. The T-90 car has been tested for a long time, probably experts know its main vulnerabilities and know how to fix them, where to strengthen the reservation, where to put dynamic armor, etc. But engine power is already at the limit and an increase in the mass of the tank will reduce its dynamism. characteristics, and this will adversely affect its survivability and combat effectiveness.
      On a new machine, you can’t immediately reveal all the shortcomings, and even more so, you won’t immediately prepare the tech. solutions to eliminate them.
      It is necessary to take into account the time factor, what can be done faster? to increase the effectiveness of the combat use of the T-90 through modernization or to replace old tanks with a new machine (in the world it is now turbulent and how many relatively peaceful years are left for us?). It is of course necessary to consider and economical. feasibility and industrial capacity.
      It may be advisable to modernize old tanks and prepare a new car in series.
      In short, you need to study all the options and only then make the best decision.
  3. sirToad
    0
    9 October 2011 15: 53
    But what if the size of the engine compartment does not fit? it, of course, the nineties needs to be modernized, but if there is a new engine for it, it is reasonable and the car is new. so as not to shout "ah outdated ah abroad is better ah for scrap."
    1. +1
      9 October 2011 16: 29
      In no case do not say that you do not need to create a new car. I have to! I agree with you completely! I just feel offensive that there is already a new powerful engine, but it is not used due to the fact that there is still no new machine for it. The author claims that it is technically possible to put a new engine on the T-90. So why not use it for modernization? And besides, the earlier the engine production is put into series, the faster the technologies for mass production are developed, the shortcomings of the new engine in the process of operation are revealed (and they are always in new technically complex products), the faster they can be eliminated. In addition, the larger the series, the cheaper the cost of the product, and the provision of troops with spare parts will be simplified due to the unification of the engine.
  4. Superduck
    -2
    9 October 2011 18: 35
    It seems that the engine is too big and stupid in the 72nd series will not fit. Although then it turns out that if the armature is that it will be the size of an eclair?
  5. sirToad
    +2
    9 October 2011 19: 33
    so you’ll understand the hell. and you won’t get into the design documentation. so it remains to guess on the coffee grounds))
  6. Joker
    +1
    9 October 2011 20: 35
    Why do not X-engines of the new generation put on the T-90 and its modifications, the answer is below:

    The fiery heart of Russian tanks -3
    http://gurkhan.blogspot.com/2011/09/3.html

    "The first and second part of our message concerned promising engines of the 2B series, the so-called" X-shaped ". As some readers quite rightly noted in their comments, these diesel engines are not installed on T-90 tanks and, in particular, on the just presented T tank -90MS "Tagil". Why? Because these engines are sharpened specifically for completely different promising machines. To ensure the operation of this new engine, new systems are also needed. First of all, cooling, air cleaning, power supply, exhaust, etc., etc. Of course, they can be crammed into the MTO T-90, moreover, in the mid-1980s, this was already done on the experimental tank "Object 186". True, there was installed a more dimensional predecessor of the 2B-12th - 16-cylinder 2B -16, and in order to accommodate the radiators of an increased area, the tank had to roll back the stern even more, which is not very rational and effective, and above all from a technological and economic point of view. In the end, "X-shaped Ki "on the T-90 is simply not needed. Tanks of the T-72 and T-90 type are quite enough of the stock that the "old" proven diesel engines of the B-2 type still have. Their modernization potential is far from being exhausted. With the development of new technologies, including the now fashionable "nano", it is possible to continue increasing the capacity. Moreover, with regard to tanks of the 45-50-ton class, which include the T-72 and T-90, the further increase in capacity is not a priority. Studies carried out by leading Russian industry research institutes: VNIITM, NIID, 38NII MO RF, many years of experience in large-scale military operation show that the power density indicator is optimal in values ​​of 20-25 hp / t. Exceeding this value is unreasonable both technically and economically. Thus, the maximum required power for T-90 tanks will not exceed 1250 hp, which is fully provided by the existing series of V-2 diesel engines. For the power plants of T-72 and T-90 tanks, it is now more relevant to solve issues related to their resource, simplify operation, and introduce automatic control and monitoring systems. Thus, the realities of today are the engines V-92S2 - 1000hp, V-92S2F (aka V-93) - 1130hp, as well as in the near future V-99 - 1200 ... 1250hp ... In particular, a power plant with a V-90S92F diesel engine has been implemented on the new Russian T-2MS tank. "
  7. -2
    9 October 2011 20: 41
    "The A-85-3 engine was originally designed as a completely new power plant for completely new tanks, such as the upcoming Armada. You can equip it with the T-90, but this step may not justify itself .."
    From the words of the author of the article, it can be assumed that the mass-dimensional characteristics of the new engine are suitable for the T-90, only the power is excessive for the mass in 46 tons. So I propose due to add. power to add armor where necessary to reduce the vulnerability of the tank and crew.
    1. Superduck
      +2
      9 October 2011 21: 38
      You don’t understand correctly, if the engine interferes with, then excess power will produce excess thermal energy on the mountain, which needs to be diverted, this problem was mentioned, relatively free horses that are achieved by turbocharging, injection and electronics are very limited, the rest is afterburner and, accordingly, heating. Nothing happens for free. Moreover, excess engine power will require enhanced transmission. It seems to me that the mobility of the t-90 at the moment is one of the best, if not the best in the class, why all this. It is better to really increase maintainability, reliability, economy, throttle response and other secondary characteristics. After all, engine operators know that a power indicator in itself is a quantity that speaks little. A simple example: the engine of a kawasaki kayabutsu motorcycle is approximately equal in power to the tractor engine in Belarus. But this does not mean that the Belarusian will go with him as if he were a native. Believe me, the B-92 is not so ideal to rest on its laurels, I agree with the opinion that the 72nd line does not need anything revolutionary at the moment.
    2. Superduck
      0
      9 October 2011 21: 58
      Quote: CARTRIDGE
      Excuse me, what is kawasaki kayabutsu?

      This is a cult Japanese motorcycle in certain circles.
      1. 0
        27 December 2017 00: 37
        Quote: SuperDuck
        Quote: CARTRIDGE
        Excuse me, what is kawasaki kayabutsu?

        This is a cult Japanese motorcycle in certain circles.

        Amendment: - this is a cult in certain circles, a cool divorce of horses, on cool grandmas. Why? Yes, because the firm "Susuki", vparilat finger-fuckers unfinished tourist in KB design, under the guise of a hyperbike. Yes, and with a bunch of sores. We do not believe we read a mat. part and about "Silver Falcon" from the same company 2001-2004 model year.
  8. CARTRIDGE
    -1
    9 October 2011 21: 15
    I think the t-90 with its performance characteristics is already enough engine power, and let the new engine be prepared for a new tank, whose engine compartment will be designed for this engine. Someone writes as if to squeeze this engine into the t-90 and build up armor, but here The point is not in the engine and armor, but in the fact that our vehicles and bridges are sharpened for a certain mass and the increased weight of equipment will create difficulties in transportation
  9. CARTRIDGE
    -1
    9 October 2011 21: 50
    Superduck,
    Excuse me, what is kawasaki kayabutsu? smile
    1. Superduck
      0
      9 October 2011 21: 59
      Quote: CARTRIDGE
      Excuse me, what is kawasaki kayabutsu?

      This is a cult Japanese motorcycle in certain circles.
  10. Dimazick
    +1
    9 October 2011 22: 33
    "The compression ratio in the cylinders is 11."

    Was I confused by such a low compression ratio for a diesel engine? what
    1. Superduck
      +1
      9 October 2011 22: 38
      Really. In general, 11 is normal for gasoline, in theory, diesel fuel will not light at 11.
      1. CARTRIDGE
        -1
        9 October 2011 22: 51
        You can write the name of the model: for example, the kawasaki ZX-10R or ZZR-1400, otherwise the kayabutsu does not say anything, I just think maybe you messed it up
  11. vlakprof
    0
    9 October 2011 23: 01
    Well I do not know.
    In my experience, our tank diesel engines are just as ubiquitous as automobile ones.
    I served 96-98, 191Msp, 1tb - during one march ALL machines in the company were out of order.
  12. Cedric
    -3
    10 October 2011 11: 58
    I’m lying around with our engines. I understand that maybe the equipment doesn’t allow you to make a 12-cylinder X-shaped engine with the necessary tolerances (the task is nontrivial to get into all planes on all cylinders with minimal tolerances) so do modularly, three X-shaped engines four will give you the required 12 cylinders, two X-shaped motors will give a motor for an infantry fighting vehicle and a BRDM, four X-shaped motors will be a new engine for a promising tank. Each crankshaft is short - do it with the highest accuracy. Connect to each other on cotter pins or an electrofusion coupling, then the first motor becomes the starting motor for operation in the search and target search mode. If you lose power on the middle or extreme X-shaped motor, continue driving on one .
    Direct injection nozzles, remove from any Japanese engine, see how it's done, put (order) yourself the same. Cross honing, good oil ... forget about wear after 1000 km. run-in. The injection pump itself, on the Japs with the fist of an adult — put four, one standby. MTO - make it removable at the back, removing three motors and repairing a broken one is easier than removing one bulky one, it will also be an indicator that our tank is not disposable.
    Heat exchange.
    The bottom of the tank is airtight, inert gas is pumped in, pumps, we take excess heat through heat exchangers.
    I wish you success in domestic tank building.
    1. Joker
      +2
      10 October 2011 12: 19
      In theory, it can be beautiful, BUT no one has thought of a "collapsible" crankshaft yet. maybe they thought of it, but they did not embody it in metal. I'm certainly not a dvigatelist, but the idea is very doubtful IMHO.
      1. +1
        10 October 2011 20: 38
        Purely for reference and without any back thought. Collapsible crankshafts were used in TATR diesels, back in the 70s of the last century. These dump trucks were delivered to the USSR. And now I don’t know.
        1. Joker
          -3
          12 October 2011 04: 27
          I think that the load on the crankshaft of the Tatra and T-90 are slightly different. This know-how has not received wide distribution, I think not in vain. If there is any other infa, please share, I will be pleased to read it.

          Thank you for the info, though the first time I heard about such a decision, but I note, here it was a little about something else, namely, as I understand it, about a kind of collapsible-independent calender. Technically, designing such a node is not a problem, but in terms of resource and reliability, I think it will not even suit the acceptance of NATO with their liberalism.
    2. svvaulsh
      +1
      10 October 2011 19: 57
      Dear Cedric! Offer your services and knowledge in the design bureau of engine building and maybe soon we will have another reason for pride in our country, which made a revolution in engine building.
    3. +1
      10 October 2011 20: 34
      As the saying goes: "I'll divorce someone else's misfortune with my hands." Himself then at least realized what he wrote? What do you think, at the plant, engine engineers are made with a finger? There is such a word and concept as an arrangement, in this case a tank. Composition is the supreme art of connecting the unconnected. In order to understand this, you need to study at a technical university. If there is no higher technical education and at least 10 years of work in the design bureau, in this case in the tank, then there is no need to scratch your tongues in vain.
      1. 0
        April 30 2015 17: 02
        And for me - it’s quite a working idea for myself (despite the first design education in a car university). And it’s not at all necessary to make a composite crankshaft - they can just be made different by a different number of blocks - by 1,2,3. But for the steel parts of the cylinder-piston group there will be a fungibility ... And if you get completely dreamy, then in combat conditions the tank engine in case of failure of some minor parts (the main thing is that the crankshaft was intact) can be assembled from engines with another the technology is actually like a lego, on the knee ... Again, in production, the larger the production, the lower the cost of one part ...
  13. kesa1111
    -1
    10 October 2011 19: 06
    It would be necessary to make a modification of the t90 with a new engine and show the Indians.
    On the promising Arjun Mk2 is a diesel MTU 1400 l / s. They ask for a long time to increase power and therefore turned to the Germans.
    1. Joker
      +1
      12 October 2011 04: 30
      In its pure form, power does not mean much, Arjun Mk2 is initially heavier than our 90th, the question is in specific gravity. This is for the tank as a whole, and for the engine the amount of horsepower per liter, or if you simplify the number of horses in relation to the dimensions / mass of the engine.
  14. rise
    -3
    16 October 2011 05: 45
    everything has long been known that they were going to work out in kb in particular by air ??? the fact that the intake ducts must be sanded and free of inflows (judging by the casting of this pre-vehicle, Al is done without vacuum and ultrasound, on the knees of Uncle Vasya) in order not to create air resistance, an intercooler is installed after the compressor. There is nothing more to invent here. But high-quality manufacturing is what they are trying to achieve in the West even without opening extra. KB, people just work.
  15. Mr. tank
    +1
    2 January 2012 14: 27
    I just can’t understand - why did the Poles of V-2 manage to reach 1200, but they can’t do Chelyabinsk?
  16. combat 58
    0
    28 March 2014 15: 55
    raw engine, huge, there is a real opportunity to make it easier compact more economical and more powerful.
    in the tropics does not overheat in the North, half a turn can be started. It is possible even in the BMP even in the BTR
    not to mention tanks to install. Maintenance and engine replacement will become easier.

    [email protected]
  17. combat 58
    0
    28 March 2014 15: 55
    raw engine, huge, there is a real opportunity to make it easier compact more economical and more powerful.
    in the tropics does not overheat in the North, half a turn can be started. It is possible even in the BMP even in the BTR
    not to mention tanks to install. Maintenance and engine replacement will become easier.

    [email protected]
  18. combat 58
    0
    28 March 2014 18: 30
    and let me also note that how much not to build up armor, install different 'curtains' and others
    prichindaly is not an option. Someone will say there the engineers are sitting, technical universities you graduated where you climbed.
    Of course, I respect them, but I dare say they are in the wrong direction and look at the wrong angle.
    Israeli shells and various RPGs will not take on any. The penny cost, nature itself gives
    hint. Let’s look at the leopards Merkava Leclerc will take up or our tanks. If no one needs
    I will soon throw all the developments into the open network.
  19. combat 58
    0
    28 March 2014 18: 30
    and let me also note that how much not to build up armor, install different 'curtains' and others
    prichindaly is not an option. Someone will say there the engineers are sitting, technical universities you graduated where you climbed.
    Of course, I respect them, but I dare say they are in the wrong direction and look at the wrong angle.
    Israeli shells and various RPGs will not take on any. The penny cost, nature itself gives
    hint. Let’s look at the leopards Merkava Leclerc will take up or our tanks. If no one needs
    I will soon throw all the developments into the open network.
  20. 0
    10 June 2014 14: 20
    Attempts to transfer the technology of Formula 1 to armored vehicles can lead to a negative effect, we can get an army capable of fighting in local wars rather than defending a country, Russia and its territory cannot rely on the experience of the Pygmy countries, so let them first decide who and why to fight, and then we will see, the historical experience of the wars of Russia suggests that everyone in the country should be a soldier, and weapons should be appropriate, weapons that can be used by a child working in any conditions, with minimal maintenance, and maintainability using a Russian automatic key, but if we are going to wage local wars, we need other approaches to the army and its weapons
  21. +1
    April 29 2015 13: 48
    I drove today on a bike along Khodynka, where the military arranged a town with new equipment for the parade. The hangars are temporary, there is new equipment there. On the street there are only tractors and tankers. BUT! There were two armatures T-14. Look - I do not want! I saw it, even took a picture. The most interesting thing is that one of the tanks had an engine removed, and it feels like it is in a monoblock with a transmission. On the side there is some hefty generator or something, half a meter in diameter ... I looked - I looked, but I didn’t understand what kind of motor ... It seems like a 12N360 ... But not a fact .. To the old B-92 it seems like nothing at all .. I was looking at the removal of 100 meters ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      April 29 2015 18: 07
      The photo is not the best, as it turned out ...
      1. 0
        3 November 2016 12: 50
        looking at the pictures, start the engine if it suddenly airs the fuel system. with such a length of high pressure pipes will be a huge problem. on old tankers it was necessary to unscrew the pipes from the nozzles, and the pipes there are not shorter, but here it’s 2 meters .... and it’s impossible to reach the bottom row. Apparently, the x-piston has a piston group from old engines with all the sticking out consequences. Well, there is smoke rocker, huge fuel and oil consumption, it seems that the cylinder blocks are removable. Apparently, there was no place for a generator with a starter, most likely they will be on the box. Something is being sawed by this engine, the first show in 2004, it’s of little use. Well, our old Veshki won the Second World War, no doubt their honor and praise, but how much money can already be thrown out in these constructs? All upgrades boil down to installing more powerful turbines, and yes, the valve cover was made aluminum. remove the turbines and in front of you will be an engine from the T-34 tank model 37 years. even the Chinese understood this and modernized our B-2. they have it now monoblock. with forged crankshaft. On our crankshaft is welded, incredibly expensive.
        1. 0
          3 October 2017 11: 54
          I don’t understand about the welded crankshaft? They’re forging at Barnaultransmash, they’re cracking adjacent to the forge of the hull. Engines, though like D-6, D-12, UD. Sam assembled in ts190.
  22. 0
    4 November 2016 12: 05
    For those who looked into the MT-T-72: if you put an X-shaped diesel there, then how to service the nozzles of the lower cylinders? On the bottom of the hatches or something to cut? Most likely there will be other problems with servicing valves, heads on the lower cylinders. The whole engine must be pulled out or sent immediately to the battalion or to the tank repair plant.
  23. +1
    5 November 2016 09: 48
    Guys, read your comments, your indignation and moaning ... Create a new motor, still that hemorrhoids! The biggest time is spent on fine-tuning the engine to the required power and reliability. And now it is most noticeable! If earlier Toyota Motors were millionaires, then where did everything go now? A modern foreign car, it’s good if a thousand three hundred pass, and that’s it! Technology is improving, and resource and maintainability is falling. Because in the world no one is engaged in long-term refinement and resource testing of engines. Developed on a computer, the file was sent to a CNC machine, and then the part to be assembled, and in series!
    Therefore, it is not necessary to teach designers what and how to do it. No need to say that everything is better in the West. Not everyone! I work with large diesels myself, and I know what I mean.
  24. +1
    20 January 2017 20: 29
    Tank engines have the same problems as automobile engines: in Russia there is no design bureau that would be involved in the development of automotive engine systems for automatic regulation and control at the level of modern requirements.
  25. 0
    7 July 2019 15: 28
    This engine is not the future, but the past. )))

    The X-shaped sixteen-cylinder diesel engine of the newest Russian Armata tank was taken from the German Tiger- || (royal tiger) and this diesel was called Simmering SLA-16.
    It was created in 1942 by the company of the same name with the participation of the Porsche company. Zimmering capacity - 770 l / s.
    This engine was installed on all modifications of the royal tiger.

    "Everything new is well forgotten old ..."