Revolutions in tank building, or Failed predecessors of “Almaty”

In the near future, it is planned to carry out the whole range of tests and adopt the latest tank, built on the basis of the Armata heavy universal tracked platform. The new combat vehicle has a number of features that have not yet been encountered in domestic production equipment. Including for these reasons, the new Russian Tanks "Armata" are the cause for numerous disputes, and also receive the most flattering reviews. They are often called the real revolution in tank building and the main hope of the Russian ground forces.

Unfortunately, it should be recognized that such praises are not new. All this we have already heard a few years ago. Back in the nineties, domestic tank builders developed two projects of promising tanks at once. Having received fame, these projects were also called the revolution and the main hope of the army. However, despite all the efforts and due to objective reasons, both of the new projects did not leave the test stage of the prototypes. As a result, the tanks "Object 195" and "Object 640" did not justify the hopes pinned, and the armed forces had to wait for the appearance of the Armata tank.

"195 Object"

"The 195 object" was one of the latest projects of promising tanks, the development of which began in the Soviet Union. Employees of the Ural Transport Engineering Design Bureau (Nizhny Tagil) began the development of the “195 Object” in 1988 in the framework of the research project “Improvement-88”. For various reasons, the construction of an experimental tank of this model began only in the late nineties. In 2001, the general public learned about the existence of the project.

Much of the information about the 195 Object project remained classified. At the disposal of specialists and lovers of military equipment there were only a few photos and fragmentary information about the new tank. However, this did not prevent the media from publishing some data about the project. For example, in the middle of the two thousand years it was reported that by the end of the decade the tank "Object 195" will pass all the tests and be adopted. In the future, the date of the proposed start of operation in the troops was moved to 2010-15 years.

Most information about the tank "Object 195" is still closed to the public. Nevertheless, various fragmentary information was previously published in different sources, which allows us to make an approximate picture and present the look of the tank under development.

Judging by the different photos, the tank "Object 195" in its dimensions should have been very different from the existing armored vehicles. The length of the car on the hull was estimated at 7,5-8 m, width no more than 3,5 m (rail restriction) and height about 2,5 m. It is noteworthy that in some photos, due to the canvas cover and various equipment on the roof of the tower, the overall height significantly increased, up to to 3-3,5 m.



Dimensions allowed to assume that the combat weight of the tank reached 50-55 t. Such a weight of the machine required an appropriate power plant. According to various sources, the tank "Object 195" was supposed to be equipped with a promising X-shaped engine. Several such power plants with a capacity of at least 1500 hp were offered. In such a case, acceptable mobility characteristics could be provided.

Different sources mention the use of non-standard layout for domestic tanks. In front of the hull it was proposed to place a habitable volume in which there were jobs for all crew members. Behind the habitable volume, an uninhabited fighting compartment was envisaged, in the stern - the engine and transmission units. The hull assembled in this way was completed with a chassis with seven supporting rollers on board.

Unfortunately, there are no clear photographs of the “195 Object” tank, from which it is possible to study the features of its design. However, the existing images confirmed the placement of the entire crew inside the hull. The exact number of tankers remains unknown. According to some data, the driver, the commander and the gunner were supposed to drive the car, according to others - only the driver and the gunner-commander.

It is known that the smooth-bore gun 2А83 of caliber 152 mm became the “main caliber” of the perspective tank. It was proposed to install the gun on an automated turret with an automatic loader and other equipment capable of operating without the direct intervention of the crew. Apparently, it was planned to install mechanized styling for 152-mm shots inside the body, and only some devices of the automatic loader and gun mounting devices should be placed in the tower above the body.

The additional armament complex of the “Object 195” was to include one 30 mm automatic cannon as an anti-aircraft gun and a set of PKT machine guns. According to other sources, a large-caliber machine gun was to be placed on a remote-controlled installation on the roof of the tower. In addition, a set of smoke grenade launchers was envisaged.

At about the beginning of the 2000s, an experimental tank was built in Nizhny Tagil with a 2-83 gun. The gun was installed on the original tower with a minimum number of units placed above the level of the shoulder strap. The basis for the experimental tank was the chassis of the serial T-72. Details of the test of such a machine remain unknown. Probably, the 152-mm gun demonstrated all its advantages, and also allowed to reveal the existing shortcomings.

Since the middle of the last decade, the media regularly reported on the progress of the 195 Project and the plans of the Ministry of Defense. It was reported that the new machine must pass the entire test cycle, after which it will be able to get into the troops. In addition, rumors were circulating about the possible appearance of an export contract for the supply of such equipment.

In the spring of 2010, representatives of the Ministry of Defense said that the main task of the tank industry in the near future will be the mass production of T-90 tanks. The full-scale production of machines "Object 195" while not planned. In the future, the promising project was mentioned several times in various reports, until it was announced that the Defense Ministry had stopped funding the development of a new tank. In 2011, the management of Uralvagonzavod expressed its readiness to continue work on the 195 Object on its own initiative, but new messages on this matter were no longer received.

"640 Object"

Another “revolution” that was actively discussed in the press and among lovers of military equipment was the promising tank “Object 640”, also known as “Black Eagle”. This project was developed by the Design Bureau of the Omsk Transport Engineering Plant and was a variant of the deep modernization of the main T-80U tank. As in the case of the "Object 195", in the design of the "Black Eagle" are widely used original and non-standard technical solutions.

The exact start date of the 640 Object project is unknown. The layout of the new tank was first introduced in the 1997 year. Two years later, at the next exhibition, both the model and the prototype of the new combat vehicle were shown. Assumptions were made about the approximate dates of completion of all the necessary work and the adoption of a new tank for service. The first serial "Black Eagles" could enter the army at the beginning of the two thousandth, but this did not happen.

As an upgrade option for the serial T-80U, the new “640 Object” should have retained its main features. The overall layout of the internal volumes of the hull remained the same: the front control compartment, the combat compartment in the middle and the engine-transmission compartment in the aft one. In this case, however, it was proposed to use some new ideas concerning the increase in the level of protection of the crew and other features of the machine.

In view of the serious processing of the tank design, the chassis had to be lengthened and the chassis redesigned accordingly. A pair of track rollers was added to the composition of the latter (seven on board). All rollers were equipped with an individual suspension with hydraulic shock absorbers. According to reports, the first prototype of the Black Eagle was equipped with a GTD-1250 gas turbine engine with an 1250 horsepower. Serial equipment of this type was planned to complete a more powerful power plant of a similar type.

At the heart of the updated fighting compartment lay a curious idea aimed at increasing the level of protection and convenience of the crew. The commander and gunner were asked to be placed at the bottom of the crew compartment, below the tank hull. Such a layout of the fighting compartment allowed to reduce the height of the tower and, as a consequence, the size of the frontal projection of the entire tank without sacrificing reservations and internal units.



The new tower had an original form, formed by several main body units. Thus, the frontal part of the tower was protected by combined armor and a set of dynamic protection units. The tops of the dynamic protection units “collapsed” into a surface that was close to conical and located at an angle of the order of 20-30 degrees to the horizontal. In the middle part of the tower, just behind the gun, there was a protruding box-like casing. Also, the tower was equipped with a developed niche for the placement of ammunition.

The tank "Object 640" received 125-mm smooth-bore gun-launcher with automatic loader. In view of the use of the original layout of the fighting compartment with the isolation of weapons from the crew, it was necessary to develop new devices for storing ammunition and feeding shells into the gun. The architecture of the tower allowed later to equip the tanks with guns of a larger caliber, up to 152 mm.

The ammunition of 35-40 shells (unitary or separate loading) and guided missiles was to be placed in the rear of the turret in the mechanized installation. According to some data, the feed niche was supposed to be a so-called. transport-loading container mounted on special mounts. Such an arrangement of units made it possible to simplify the preparation of the machine for battle: after the available ammunition was spent, the entire container had to be changed, after which the combat work could continue.

The location of the gun and the laying of ammunition in the same plane to some extent simplified the automatic loading. The mechanisms of the turret, according to the crew’s command, were to extract a shot of the desired type from the installation and thereafter send it to the cannon of the gun. The participation of the crew in the loading process was not provided.

In addition to the weapon, it was proposed to use a twin PKT machine gun and a large-caliber anti-aircraft "Utes" or "Kord" to hit targets. Also, the tank was supposed to carry several smoke grenade launchers.

In 1999, the first demonstration of an experienced tank "Object 640", later used in the tests. In the same year, Omsk designers presented a layout of the export version of a promising combat vehicle. In the future, mockups and an experimental machine appeared regularly at various exhibitions and became the subject of numerous discussions.

In 2002, information appeared about some of the economic problems, due to which the prospects for the 640 Tank remain questionable. The possible start of the mass production of such equipment was postponed for at least several years. A year later, during one of the exhibitions, an experienced tank, the Black Eagle, showed its combat capabilities.

History of the 640 Object project ended in the 2009 year. Omsk Transport Engineering Plant went bankrupt due to economic and other reasons. After all the changes in the future, this company became part of the corporation "Uralvagonzavod".

September of the same year, 12 received new information, which seriously surprised specialists and the public. The acting head of the military-scientific committee of armored armament and automobile equipment of the GABTU Colonel Vladimir Voitov, commenting on the project “Object 640”, stated that “there was no such work”. Known to the public images of an experienced tank, he called some photographs twenty years ago, which captured "the model of the combat vehicle of the future, in which someone suffers." In addition, V. Voitov said that he was aware of the existence of an experienced tank, however, according to him, there was nothing inside the tower of this prototype.

Such statements became cause for bewilderment. A promising tank was repeatedly demonstrated in the form of mock-ups and an experimental machine, but one of the leaders of the GABTU denied the existence of such developments in almost direct text. Apparently, Col. Voitov spoke about the existence of research work carried out by order of the GABTU. Its existence is not really confirmed by any sources. For this reason, a version appeared about the creation of the Black Eagle project on a proactive basis. It turns out that Omsk engineers developed this tank without a corresponding order from the Ministry of Defense.

Anyway, all work on the project "Object 640" were discontinued in the second half of the last decade. However, in past years there have been reports of the possible use of developments on this project when creating a new unified platform "Armat".

On the way to "Armata"

In the recent past, two new projects were being developed in our country at once, with which a great future was predicted. Prospective tanks "Object 195" and "Object 640" were called a revolution in tank design and the main hope of the armed forces of Russia. Despite this, both developments remained at the prototype testing stage. The emergence of a new domestic tank was postponed for several years.

It is not difficult to notice which of the recent projects is to some extent similar to the newest tank based on the Armata platform. Developed in Nizhny Tagil "Object 195" had a single volume to accommodate the crew, located in front of the hull, and was equipped with an uninhabited automated fighting compartment. At the same time, however, the Armata and the 195 Object have noticeable differences. For example, they have different weapons: the newer machine carries the 125-mm 2-82-gun. Probably, in the course of recent research projects, the military and tank builders came to the conclusion that the 152 caliber guns are redundant in mm.

Earlier it was claimed that the developments on the “Object 640” project will be used to create new types of armored vehicles. The appearance of the "Black Eagle" and "Almaty" does not allow us to talk about the direct borrowing of any ideas and solutions. It is impossible to exclude the possibility of using other developments that are literally hidden behind the body armor, but the details of this level are not yet available to the interested public.

Great hopes were pinned on the “195 Object” and “640 Object”, but these tanks could not leave the test stage. Now, in a similar way, specialists and the public perceive the new tank based on the Armata platform. It is hoped that this time the military and industry have every opportunity to fully implement the existing plans. I would like new Russian tanks, despite all the possible problems, to hit the troops and increase the potential of the ground forces.


On the materials of the sites:
http://armor.kiev.ua/
http://btvt.narod.ru/
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/
http://ria.ru/
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-311.html
http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-313.html

Comments

[Pakistan_007]

Not that the "failed" ones, they just appeared at the wrong time ...
However, they were not in vain, as it is correctly noted in the article, that "armata" consists of their developments.

[Per se.]

Quote: Pakistan_007

Not that the "failed" ones, they just appeared at the wrong time ...

The predecessors of the "Armata" are just successful predecessors. Former Defense Minister ID Sergeev was impressed by the object "195" with a 152 mm cannon (T-95) when he visited Uralvagonzavod, although Sergeev was a rocket engineer, he assessed the prospects of a new tank, almost ready. "Black Eagle" was also a completely ready and promising project of a tank with a gas turbine engine (deep modernization of the T-80). Both vehicles are fucked up, "economists" and "strategists" in the era of Serdyukov put an end to them, as well as on the T-80, as well as on promising work on tank modules of the "Breakthrough" type, which could significantly increase the power of the T-80 tank fleet and T-72 / T-90, as well as on the alteration of some of the old tanks in BMPT (work on BMPT began in Soviet times, taking into account the war in Afghanistan and the general assessment of the use of tanks with the massive use of anti-tank weapons by the enemy). There is no need for ready-made BTR-90 and BMP-3F (the marines have only wheeled armored personnel carriers here, they are "waiting" for a gliding armored miracle for "over-the-horizon landing"). Moreover, the media are already talking about the disposal of stocks of Soviet tanks. We do it in dozens, in pieces, we are ready to cut in hundreds, in thousands, so if a war happens, there is already nothing and there will be no time to make up for the lost. It feels like our intelligence, special services, do not track, do not analyze sabotage, sabotage, lobbying, stupidity, which harms the country's defense, how did fools and traitors in defense manage to settle down so successfully and satisfyingly for themselves? The equipment shown at the parade is still raw, not tested, but there is a decision of the president to move new items to the troops, including armored vehicles ... As they say, here - "melons, watermelons, wheat rolls, peaceful thirteenth year, they know in heaven only your angels, what awaits you, villagers "... It remains only to believe and hope.

[Pimply]

Quote: Per se.

Both cars are fucked up, "economists" and "strategists" in the era of Serdyukov put a cross on them, as well as on the T-80,

In fact, the funeral was long before Serdyukov

[Per se.]

Quote: Pimply

In fact, the funeral was long before Serdyukov

I would not say that, it was under Seryukov (he was Minister of Defense from 15.02.2007 to 6. 11. 2012), on 7 on April 2010, Deputy Minister of Defense, weapons chief Vladimir Popovkin officially announced the termination of funding for work on the “195 facility”, since he is allegedly outdated.

[Evgen_Vasilich]

195 just taburetkin poheril

[Engineer]

This is what you thought of here. Sergeyev did not even see this tank! The first closed show was in 2010, and Sergeyev left the post of minister back in 2001. The rest is in the same vein. The main lobbyist of the tank was Sergey A. Mayev, then - the head of the Main Armored Directorate of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation. The T-95 was not a finished tank, two prototypes were built and were going to build a third - the final version with the correction of all the shortcomings of the first samples. But it was not built. The gun, too, was not ready for serial production - on the first tank it was torn apart after 86 shots. And the object 640 was just a demonstrator in general - they lengthened the T-80 chassis for another roller, the engine remained the same GTD-1000TF, because there wasn’t another, the automatic machine and gun remained the same as the T-80. They carried the ammunition pack into the compartment behind the tower, but why, if the machine gun remained the same with the same arrangement of shells in it. So this crew did not add safety. The chief designer of the T-95 and Armata is Andrei Terlikov, so I have no doubt that Armata has absorbed all the best with the T-95 and as a more modern project stands a notch above it.

[Rex]

Quote: Engineer

The chief designer of the T-95 and Armata is Andrei Terlikov, so I have no doubt that Armata absorbed all the best with the T-95 and as a more modern project stands a notch higher

The comrade has long been praising 2 (although there were at least 3) unrealized projects, simultaneously criticizing the T-14 as an unfinished business.
In my, purely personal opinion, in the T-14, the roots of two projects can be traced even outwardly. In addition, there are rumors that the automatic loader is similar to the "Black Eagle".
Rather, it looks like they "assembled" one of 3 cars.

[Per se.]

Quote: Engineer

This is what you thought of here. Sergeyev did not even see this tank! The first closed show was in 2010, and Sergeyev left the post of minister in 2001. The rest is in the same vein.

Work on the tank has been going on since the times of the Soviet Union, and object 195 was shown to Sergeev in the late eighties. At the beginning of the 195s, with great difficulty Uralvagonzavod completed work on object 195. It was a prototype of a new generation tank, the car was assembled in metal, and it passed factory tests. However, the military budget did not have enough money to purchase these machines. The Ministry of Defense could not even carry out full-fledged proving grounds and, moreover, military tests of object 25. Under A. Serdyukov, the idea of ​​its unification and the creation of single combat platforms began to be realized. Everything that was in the troops seemed to the then owners of the military department to be an outdated legacy of the Soviet era, which should have been disposed of as soon as possible. At the same time, for some reason, it was not taken into account that the defeat of the domestic defense industry in the nineties was not in vain, that the connection between generations was broken - both in industry, in design bureaus and in science. Many technologies were lost, and design schools were dying before our very eyes. In addition, the Ministry of Defense, when ordering new equipment, for some reason simultaneously liquidated its own research institutes and test sites. Civilian top managers of the military department of the time of A. Serdyukov had no idea that it was not enough to design and even build military equipment, it had to be tested according to specially developed programs, first at closed training grounds, then in the troops. And only after that, make a decision: what has been done is suitable for serving in the troops, or requires serious revision. Under A. Serdyukov, they said directly: you cannot do what we need here and now, we will buy it abroad, and they bought the same Iveco from Mistral. How can you even talk about the adoption of equipment that has not even embarked on field tests ?! This also applies to "Armata", and "Boomerang", and "Kurganets-95". There was a dilemma for the T-195, or it was necessary to modify the "7th", adapting it to a new element base, with different electronics, optics, thermal imagers, or, on this machine, we put an end to, and insist that it is necessary to open an experimental design work on creating a new car. This option was adopted. April 2010, 195 - black date in the statement of Mr. Popovkin. Without finishing one car, we already want a "new" one. Without bringing this "new" one, we still want to make a "supernova". For KB, this option is most beneficial. If the state, of course, has money and is willing to pay for this eternal development work. When the General was replaced, the idea of ​​a "platform" was pushed through, and it is not a step higher, although it quite naturally relies on the achievements of the XNUMXth, but is presented as something revolutionary and "really breakthrough", but in essence, it is deevolution or even degradation in its universal budget essence.

[Cruorvult]

Again - a cow. That the author of the article, that you cannot argue whether they are successful or not, since they neither designed, nor created, nor tested, and also do not have any real performance characteristics. In general, my personal opinion is that in 80-90 to create a full-fledged tank with an uninhabited tower is generally a myth, since digital technologies were primitive compared to modern ones. These are now Oculus rifts and other devices, which can be used to feed images from different cameras, glue them together and get a panoramic image while sitting inside. And on account of the fact that 195th is much cooler than "Armata" - it is written in shafts on the water, we may never know.

[Rex]

Quote: CruorVult

What is the author of the article, that you can’t argue what they are, successful or not, because you have neither designed, created, nor tested, nor do you really have any technical characteristics

The commentator possesses either secret information (then he could share at least the dimensions of 195, 292 and 640 objects known to him).
Or sets out his own, unfounded speculation (then you can not respond to comments).

[Per se.]

Quote: Rex

The commentator possesses either secret information (then he could share at least the dimensions of 195, 292 and 640 objects known to him).

What do you possess, philosophizing slyly? Your "The comrade has long been praising the 2 (although there was a minimum of 3) of the unrealized projects, while criticizing the T-14 as an incomplete and cheap thing"If we talk about" chanting ", then I don’t sing about raw projects, you don’t have to sculpt it here. I don’t sing like you, T-14, really while a raw design, in comparison with it, the object" 195 "passed tests , there were some remarks from the military that could be eliminated. BTR-90, much more finished "Boomerang." BMP-3F has long been purchased by Indonesia for its marines and they are very satisfied with the machine. The much better "Kurganets-25" modernized BMP-2 ( "Berezhok") or BMP-3, you still need to look, especially since this project is unfinished and not accepted for service. I never objected in my comments to the modernization of the T-72 / T-90 and T-80, produced by T -90, while there is no replacement for him.If you are too lazy to think and look for information on the topic, sing further hosanna "Armat", not knowing anything about her, write slogans, "make friends" in a crowd of similar ones, and you may not react to my comments, the loss will not be great.

[Rex]

Quote: Per se.

What do you possess, philosophizing crafty?

Yes, the same as you - information from the media, which, for the most part, is not documented.
There is no complete objective data on any of the mentioned machines, but I’m coming for it, even chanting at least criticism of these samples - there is nothing to justify a flood.

[Per se.]

Quote: CruorVult

Again, the cow. What is the author of the article, that you can not argue what they are, successful or not, since you did not design

Why, the author of the article and I are up to you! ... You are such an erudite, why, according to your own logic, is the Armata (T-14) cooler than the T-95 (195)?
In March 2000, the then Defense Minister Igor Sergeev was at Uralvagonzavod. The gentleman under the nickname "Engineer" shook above "This is what you thought of here. Sergeyev did not even see this tank! "How many of you are there like that? Below is an excerpt from the news of Sergeev's visit.

AFTER visiting the military-industrial complex in Nizhny Tagil and Yekaterinburg, Russian Defense Minister Igor Sergeev said that a fundamentally new main battle tank (MBT) T-95 had been created in Russia. As it became known to the correspondents of "NVO", the leading tank-building enterprise of Russia, "Uralvagonzavod", presented to the Marshal a full-scale model of the new machine.
The fact that the head of the military department called it the T-95 allows us to conclude that a new tank can be delivered to the troops. It is known that such names are assigned to equipment already adopted for service - T-80, T-90, etc. Experimental and development machines are usually designated by the word "object" with the assigned number.
All technical characteristics, appearance and layout features of "object 95" are still secret. The only thing that a representative of Uralvagonzavod said in an interview with an NVO correspondent was that the tank was a completely new design, and not a modification of an existing model.
However, the main "highlight" of the new machine is a completely new layout of the combat compartment. The gun on the "95 object" is located in a small uninhabited tower. Traditional for Russian tanks of the last thirty-plus years, the automatic loader of a new design is located under the turret. The jobs of the crew of three - the driver, the gunner operator and the commander - are placed in a special armored capsule, fenced off by an armored bulkhead from the automatic loader and the turret. This solution allows not only to reduce the silhouette of the tank, i.e. make it less noticeable on the battlefield, but also significantly protect the crew.
Judging by the reports of experts, within the framework of "Object 95" it was possible to solve the second most serious problem of modern tank building, due to the fact that the power reserves of existing tank guns with a caliber of 125 mm (in Russia) and 120 mm (in the West) are completely exhausted. In particular, the domestic 2A46, installed on the T-72 and T-80, fully justifies itself in the conduct of hostilities in Chechnya, but it has insufficient muzzle energy to confidently defeat promising foreign tanks. The possible caliber of the T-95 gun is 135 mm. This is a completely new artillery system. Most likely, it will still remain smoothbore. Abroad, in particular in Israel, the possibility of equipping the next generation tanks with a 140 mm gun is being studied.

In fact, the T-95 was equipped with an 152 mm cannon and 30 mm paired with it (for secondary purposes, to save 152 mm shells).

[Cruorvult]

According to my logic, in what place I affirm something, there are customers, there are performers, one to decide what they need, the other to implement it, the third to follow, information from 195, that by t-14 really no, especially about the tests armor and guns, so that as usual you are engaged in some kind of speculation.

At the expense of the 30mm gun, how will it help to save the 22 projectile of the main caliber, if any modern armored personnel carrier in the frontal projection can withstand 30mm subcaliber?

[Per se.]

Quote: CruorVult

At the expense of the 30mm gun, how will it help to save the 22 projectile of the main caliber, if any modern armored personnel carrier in the frontal projection can withstand 30mm subcaliber?

This is not a question for me, the only thing that should be clarified is that "coupled" is not quite the correct definition, the gun had individual aiming degrees. As for any armored personnel carrier that can withstand 30 mm "sub-caliber" ... It depends on how you look at it, my former commander died in an armored personnel carrier, stitched with a burst from a large-caliber machine gun, however, into the side. There are claims that even the "Abrams" can be knocked out from the stern from a large-caliber machine gun somehow ... In any case, the 30 mm cannon is hardly superfluous, especially since this is practiced on the BMP-3 and BMD-4M (spark 30 mm with "weaving"). As for "there are customers, there are performers," the trouble is that now the customers may not be the army itself, but selfish gentlemen may well be that think not about the defense of the Fatherland, but about their dividends, about profit. According to "speculation", there are obvious things and facts, such as the collapse of the USSR, robbery by the oligarchs-brothers of Russia, the deplorable state of science and the military-industrial complex, the Serdyukovs, Popovkins, Makarovs. It was all there, and it gave consequences. I heard the opinion of a person who was involved in object "195", and, indeed, I agree that it was better to complete this project, and not waste time and money on a new one. It is better to blow on water here than to burn yourself with milk; criticism is much better than songs of praise in this. Let the turnips scratch, if they can, the T-14 is brought to mind, without adventurism in matters of national defense. If these are my speculations, well, I am sincerely sorry that I did not find a like-minded person here in your face.

[Irkutian]

Wow, the fork is cool. The best I've seen.

[prosto_rgb]

It is more correct to write not "failed" but "unlucky". The machines were successful, but their fate did not work out.

[Blondy]

The latest Russian tank based on the Armata armored platform, demonstrated at the parade in honor of the 70th anniversary of Victory in the Great Patriotic War, will receive a new 152 mm caliber gun in the future. This was reported to the newspaper Izvestia by Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin, who is responsible for the military-industrial complex.

“We have a projectile for this tank that burns a meter of steel, we will put it on Armata,” said the Deputy Prime Minister. He specified that tanks with a 125 mm gun were demonstrated at the parade - these were the first tanks that were put at the disposal of the Ministry of Defense. However, in subsequent batches a more powerful weapon will be installed.

If it were my will, I would solder ten years for disclosure, especially for advance. Silently, well, you can’t put it in any way. This is, firstly, and secondly - who is expected to be there on the battlefield with meter armor?

Well, if you blurt it out, it would be better to tell how the problems with the new gas turbine engine were solved there.

[Boris55]

Quote: Blondy

If it were my will, I would solder ten years for disclosure, especially for advance.

It’s not the first day that Rogozin is married and the information merges the one that needs to be merged.
We are not aggressors. The main thing for us is to intimidate the enemy so that he wouldn’t even dare to attack us.
And whether he said the truth or not, let the "strategic friends" scratch their turnips.

[Evgeniy667b]

Blondie! Gold words!!! Recently it has become a tradition in Russia. Before the technician has time to roll out of the gates of the production zone, the bell is already ringing. Super Duper. A pack of "Experts" and witnesses immediately creeps out. You are right, vyaknul, posted a photo or video, immediately 10 years for disclosure, without a showdown. And the most interesting thing happens next, they will build several units of popularized new technology and silence! And the Russian army, as it used the Soviet potential, will probably use it. Not only the above mentioned tanks can be recorded in this category. In aviation Yak-141, "Berkut" with forward sweep. And it looks like PAK FA is coming. To China or India, you are always welcome and in any quantity. Apparently our leaders have completely lost their orientation. What awaits Armatu, wait and see. It looks very much like the Russian government is fulfilling the order of the State Department to disarm its army. In words, there is a new, advanced technology = so you can cut old T-55, T-62, T-72. They will cut it easily, at the same time they will weld on scrap metal, they will not release a new one, except for samples ... And as a result, zero !!! I do not mention the fleet any more, they tried to ditch it in the first place. And let anyone say that one "Severodvinsk" can easily overcome a flock of "Virginias" - it's bullshit.

[Fafnir]

As I understand it, you are a great aircraft and tank builder? And do you have access to all test results? Ah Yak-141, ah S-47 such projects were cut. At least you wondered why these planes did not go into production. What are the objective technical unsolved problems, for example, the C-47, which you called "Berkut", has not solved the problem with wing twisting. And what a range the Yak-141 had! These were experimental machines, they worked out certain ideas and technical solutions, some turned out to be successful, some were not. Successful ideas are used in the following machines. Go to Kubinka, see how many interesting representatives of the "armored family" there are and compare how many of them went into the series! And draw the appropriate conclusions.

[Argon]

Well, why are you a fellow countryman in negative extremes? It's just that the time is different now, the government is looking at how to share all the technical risks of the development of new weapons (and they are not small) with someone. The same PAK FA was shown at the insistence of the Indians (whose money is actually and development is in progress). Economy is now one of the types of struggle. We have already played enough with secrecy. Remember the first shot down by A.I. Pokryshkin was the Su-2. With the "Armata" everything is not so simple, not one of the tankers "with big stars and stomach "has not yet spoken out, because they understand that its price actually puts the concept of the main tank in the position of" Lenin "- ie. On the one hand, Lenin is more alive than all living things, on the other, he is just a mummy. That is, they will be in the troops, in the same quantities as the T-90 today, and the T-72b3 will have to fight. Therefore, everyone is waiting for tests and investors.

[Vladimirets]

Quote: Evgeniy667b

Recently, Russia has already become a tradition. Before the machinery has time to roll out the gates of the production area, the ringing is already on. Super Duper.

Something I have not heard that any manufacturer of weapons in the world, after presenting his new development, said: "Well, some mediocre bucket of bolts has been dropped."

[Dimka off]

Quote: Blondy

and secondly, who is expected to be there on the battlefield with meter armor?

And there must be such a tank? Such a projectile suggests that the defeat of the enemy tank will be guaranteed the first time.

[Blondy]

Quote: Dimka off

And there must be such a tank? Such a projectile suggests that the defeat of the enemy tank will be guaranteed the first time.

You can, of course, put 200 mm too, but even 152 is already a somewhat heavy weapon - will the armature resource last for long? This is firstly, and secondly, with this money you can make a bunch of absolutely unarmored small drones that can carry a voluminous, or thermobaric, charge (also small) and now all this bunch of charges is undermined. And what will be able to oppose the Almaty when they are undermined?

[Fafnir]

This refers to homogeneous armor. That is, modern multilayer armor is taken and compared with a monolithic plate made of armored steel.

[Rex]

Quote: Blondy

Well, if you blurt it out, it would be better to tell how the problems with the new gas turbine engine were solved there.

I would also say if this projectile has a tandem warhead ..

[Cat man null]

Quote: Rex

I would also say if this projectile has a tandem warhead ..

better then ternary

With the tandem, EMNIP, modern DZ is quite able to .. agree.

[alovrov]

Silently in 41, t-34 and KV delivered troops to the troops, and the Germans were very surprised where they came from. They only wondered briefly and already several hundred kilometers from the border. Who needs such secrecy? I would solder for excessive secrecy over 10 years.

[Cat man null]

Quote: Blondy

who is there on the battlefield with meter armor expected?

Well, like this, for example:

Quote: Wiki

On serial tanks of other countries combined armor of various schemes appeared in 1979 — 1980 on the Leopard 2 and Abrams tanks, and since the 1980’s has become the standard in world tank building. In the USA, the combined armor for the armored hull and turret of the Abrams tank, under the general designation “Special Armor”, reflecting the security stamp of the project, or “Burlington”, was developed by the Ballistic Research Laboratory (BRL) for the 1977 year, and included ceramic elements [5 ], and was designed to protect against cumulative ammunition (equivalent steel thickness no worse 600 ... 700 mm), and armor-piercing feathered shells such as BOPS (equivalent steel thickness no worse than 350 ... 450 mm)

the keyword is "steel equivalent thickness". Anything is possible in this world

[Evgen_Vasilich]

I wonder how to put a more powerful gun on the platform, shoulder strap and in the tower designed for 125mm ????

[Magic archer]

rumors have been circulating about a gun of a different caliber for a long time. The French also wanted to put on the Leclerc 140mm or 155mm gun, which is almost 1.5 times more powerful than the 120mm, but after calculating the cost of everything (deployment, ammunition) plus a decrease in ammunition, we decided to leave it as it is.

[Dimka off]

Quote: Magic Archer

decided to leave it as it is

Well, let) We have a planned rearmament and they save money save

[Malkor]

Probably still the car turned out a little expensive, so they want to put a large caliber for the complete dominance of armata on the battlefield.

[Diviz]

in the armature T14 electronics will be improved and for all this is a big secret which pleases.

[Stone]

For this, they came up with modularity in order to change modules without altering the basis. I am sure they will create a new module with a 152 mm cannon (the shells will be unified with the Coalition CB), a tank with such a gun is most likely necessary as an assault, and with a shortened gun it will be good in urban conditions.

[veteran2007]

Voitov told the truth - there was no Black Eagle tank. It was an information duck, an empty T-80 hull, to which pieces for the seventh rink were welded. "Duck" was launched by Omsk tankers. They tried to develop the "filling" for the "Black Eagle" under the guise of "Burlak", but then "Burlak" was forced to work on serial tanks.

[alovrov]

Quote: Blondy

Quote: Dimka off

And there must be such a tank? Such a projectile suggests that the defeat of the enemy tank will be guaranteed the first time.

You can, of course, put 200 mm too, but even 152 is already a somewhat heavy weapon - will the armature resource last for long? This is firstly, and secondly, with this money you can make a bunch of absolutely unarmored small drones that can carry a voluminous, or thermobaric, charge (also small) and now all this bunch of charges is undermined. And what will be able to oppose the Almaty when they are undermined?

Will you shoot a small thermobaric charge at the tank? Oh well. Successes.

[veteran2007]

My observations show that a tank is created for an existing cannon, and not a cannon for a tank. On the basis of one gun, we made several models of tanks, but I don’t remember one tank with different guns (except for the T-34, but that’s another story). There will be a new tank gun - there will be an "armata". There will be no cannon - there will be another "Black Eagle".

[veteran2007]

My observations show that a tank is created for an existing cannon, and not a cannon for a tank. On the basis of one gun, we made several models of tanks, but I don’t remember one tank with different guns (except for the T-34, but that’s another story). There will be a new tank gun - there will be an "armata". There will be no cannon - there will be another "Black Eagle".

[alovrov]

Well then ... Abram with a different gun. They put the first one because there were a lot of shells for it. The economy however.

[yehat]

in one of the topics I was thrown with hats when I spoke of disappointment that there was not a 152mm gun on Armata. Then he talked with his brother-tanker, visited Kubinka, read something, saw Rogozin's comment that they would put a 152mm gun. Question: Well, where are all these provers that a 125mm gun without options is better? Now, after a deep check of the issue, I can say with confidence that the 152mm gun version has the right to life. What is more effective, I don’t know, because the guns are not in my barn, but I would like to hear the comments of all those who advocated the 125-mm 2A82 gun. I’m not going to dispute that it’s good, I don’t understand the categorization of such conclusions in comparison with the 152mm smoothbore gun.
As I understand it, the 152mm caliber has a number of obvious advantages: improved armor penetration due to less tendency to ricochet, improved efficiency of cumulative, high-explosive, high-explosive fragmentation shells, better barrel life, increased accuracy at long distances. Of the shortcomings, the quantity of BC and its non-standard and logistical difficulties were mainly called.

[yehat]

as for the rate of fire, I want to remind you that when the Germans made the yagdtiger, it didn’t really bother them and a rather effective device turned out.

[Izya Katzman]

152 mm drin has a number of decisive advantages: this is certainly a huge armor penetration by BPS, this is a new ATGM equal in terms of performance to the cornet-d (by the way, modern ATGMs have 125 mm lack of armor penetration for sure destruction of some modern MBTs in the forehead) also 152 mm is already quite childish power landmine. For all these buns you have to pay with a small ammunition load of 22 shells (at object 195), the developers decided to solve this problem quite radically - by installing a 30 mm gun (Kharkov object 477 and Tagil 195), by the way, installing such a gun will completely close the srach about 12.7 or 7.62 mm machine gun in a rotating turret in favor of the latter, a 30 mm automatic gun will partially make up for the absence of a coaxial machine gun on the t-14. The second serious problem of 152 mm drina is a much lower barrel resource, but as far as I understand, they have been working on the solution to this purely technical problem for a long time (from Object 292 - Project T80 with 152 mm gun)

[yehat]

as far as my brother brother explained, shooting from a similar drina, the resource of a 152mm gun on the contrary will be much higher
the presence of 30mm is a moot point - it started back about the BMP-3.
It is believed that the presence of a 30mm gun is excessive and enough guns and machine guns. BC and so little, and the gun adds mass and it also has BC.

[Izya Katzman]

Why is that? The same Khlopotov wrote that during the first tests of 2a83, the gun failed on 86 shots.

[Major_Vortex]

Now for the 30-mm guns brought to mind shells with remote detonation. Such shells explode exactly over the target - the enemy infantry kayuk.

[Izya Katzman]

can you link about 30 mm? I only read about the "Ainet" system for 125 mm land mines

[Major_Vortex]

Quote: Izzy Katsman

can you link about 30 mm? I only read about the "Ainet" system for 125 mm land mines

"Steel rain" can be google, or here: http://vestnik-rm.ru/news-4-11249.htm

[yehat]

30mm high-explosive shell ???
somehow not cool

[Izya Katzman]

not from a good life, we thought about 30 mm. 22 shells it will not be enough, considering that there are 3 types of them.

[Cruorvult]

If you look closely, then the 30mm gun on the 195 object is aimed with the main gun, that is, in any case, you need a movable turret. Yes, and a 30mm cannon is not a slave - it’s not meat, it is redundant against single targets, against small accumulations - a small high-explosive action, and the frontal armor of all modern armored personnel carriers holds 30 mm subcaliber, so in my opinion it's nonsense to say that with a small BC main gun 30 mm twin - exit.

[Tektor]

It seems to me that 152 guns for a tank are overkill ... He doesn’t have to shoot at 40 km, but at 3-10. The tank has other preferences: speed of recognition of the enemy in the line of sight and reaction time for its destruction (about 3 seconds : calculations, charging the desired shot, aiming, shot). And for other cases, the Coalition is suitable.

[yehat]

perhaps the right choice is to have both guns, to be able to replace them depending on the battle profile. But it’s clear that a 125mm gun isn’t quite enough to deal with the Chinese type99 and the latest modifications of carrots and abram, as well as possibly STRV.

[wk]

and Armata, what was a success? .... on Red Square a running mockup of the tank’s concept was shown .... in general, things are worse at UVZ than they seem ....

[Cruorvult]

The parade showed 5 samples undergoing tests, UVZ survived the 90s, and now it will survive everything for the most part, and you shuruet troll to the Censor.

[wk]

Quote: CruorVult

At the parade showed 5 samples passing

and from the beginning they promised 12 ... 7m died during rehearsals ...

[Rex]

Quote: wk

and from the beginning they promised 12 ... 7m died during rehearsals ...

It depends on how and which samples to count.
BMD-4 and BTR-MDM are also new. Barrow with two modules, etc.

[wk]

I meant 12 tons 14x ... count how many were at the parade .... even in 3 rows there was nothing to deploy!

[Rex]

Quote: wk

I meant 12 tons 14x.

Clear. Wording At the parade showed 5 samples passing tests misled.
The parade did not look at all. In a number of early photos, 6-8 cars came into the frame.

[yehat]

Uralvagonzavod is trying to spoil competitors for the production of cars, the tank workshop has nothing to do with it.

[wanderer_032]

According to vol.640.

"Black Eagle" is not just a deep modernization of the T-80U. This is practically a new machine, which differs from the T-80U (UK) machines significantly in its performance characteristics.

It was planned to install not only a new AZ on this machine and place a fuel refueling complex in the aft part of the tower. On this machine, it was also planned to install completely new SLA and surveillance equipment (for the tank commander) with remote control. The control and monitoring equipment itself was integrated into the controls, which, according to the project, were output to multifunctional control panels equipped with modern multifunctional LCD displays (similar to those used in aviation by KA_50 helicopters in the ABRIS system).
The whole system provided work for the tank commander and the gunner in multi-channel visual mode (day, HB and IR). As for the machine for searching and tracking targets, it is unknown, but I guess that with time we would have come to this. If there was financing of OCD and further in the required volume.

Jobs of the operator-gunner and tank commander were located not in the upper part of the tower, but in the armored hull, below the shoulder strap of the tower. What was supposed to provide protection for the crew members located in the BO, at a significantly higher level than on all types of tanks at that time in service with the RF NE.

Concerning AZ and TZK, experimental MBT about.640.

after the existing ammunition was used up, the entire container should have been changed, after which it was possible to continue combat work

Not certainly in that way. It also provided for the possibility of replenishing the refueling complex without dismantling it, through the technological hatches that were on it. In addition, through these hatches, the TZK conveyor could be serviced and field repaired.
When the gun’s automatic loading cycle, it didn’t have to be lifted up and placed on the loading angle, as on previous models of Russian MBT. The loading angle of the gun was very close or equal to 0 deg. vertically. Those. the gun could stand horizontally when loading it. This measure made it possible to reduce the time of the loading cycle of the gun when firing at the range of a direct shot (pr.1,5-2 km). That is, the speed of reloading the guns in a direct tank duel practically did not leave any chance for the crews of the enemy’s armored vehicles or when firing firing points at a range of a direct firefighting range the chances of defending the enemy’s manpower, even if the gunner was not highly skilled.

The new gas turbine engine for this 1500 hp car it was also practically ready, by the way, the plans also included a diesel version of the power plant with the equivalent power to the new gas turbine engine.
In the protection system, it was planned to establish not only KDZ, but also KAZ.
As a result, we could have got a great car for that time. And a very nimble and dangerous opponent for their counterparts abroad, of that period. And maybe even today.

A promising tank was repeatedly demonstrated in the form of prototypes and an experimental vehicle, however, one of the leaders of the State Academic Technical University refuted the existence of such developments in almost direct text. Apparently, Colonel Voitov spoke of the existence of research work commissioned by the GABTU. Its existence is really not confirmed by any sources. For this reason, a version appeared about the creation of the Black Eagle project on an initiative basis. It turns out that Omsk engineers developed this tank without a corresponding order from the Ministry of Defense.

This suggests that Omsk engineers are able to look beyond their noses and understand what kind of vehicles the tankers themselves need. More precisely, what capabilities should a truly modern MBT have.
And they saw it right after the Chechen events. Only they were not heard at the GABTU. Or pretended to be.
It is not surprising, considering who and where from then stood at the head of the country.

[Free wind]

BMP armature I really like !!!! Not new of course, but viable. Well, the engine is problematic .. well, let it be with them. HERE TANK, some questions. on the tank, this is an explicit layout.

[maestro777]

Quote: Per se.

Quote: Engineer

This is what you thought of here. Sergeyev did not even see this tank! The first closed show was in 2010, and Sergeyev left the post of minister in 2001. The rest is in the same vein.

Work on the tank has been going on since the times of the Soviet Union, and object 195 was shown to Sergeev in the late eighties. At the beginning of the 195s, with great difficulty Uralvagonzavod completed work on object 195. It was a prototype of a new generation tank, the car was assembled in metal, and it passed factory tests. However, the military budget did not have enough money to purchase these machines. The Ministry of Defense could not even carry out full-fledged proving grounds and, moreover, military tests of object 25. Under A. Serdyukov, the idea of ​​its unification and the creation of single combat platforms began to be realized. Everything that was in the troops seemed to the then owners of the military department to be an outdated legacy of the Soviet era, which should have been disposed of as soon as possible. At the same time, for some reason, it was not taken into account that the defeat of the domestic defense industry in the nineties was not in vain, that the connection between generations was broken - both in industry, in design bureaus and in science. Many technologies were lost, and design schools were dying before our very eyes. In addition, the Ministry of Defense, when ordering new equipment, for some reason simultaneously liquidated its own research institutes and test sites. Civilian top managers of the military department of the time of A. Serdyukov had no idea that it was not enough to design and even build military equipment, it had to be tested according to specially developed programs, first at closed training grounds, then in the troops. And only after that, make a decision: what has been done is suitable for serving in the troops, or requires serious revision. Under A. Serdyukov, they said directly: you cannot do what we need here and now, we will buy it abroad, and they bought the same Iveco from Mistral. How can you even talk about the adoption of equipment that has not even embarked on field tests ?! This also applies to "Armata", and "Boomerang", and "Kurganets-95". There was a dilemma for the T-195, or it was necessary to modify the "7th", adapting it to a new element base, with different electronics, optics, thermal imagers, or, on this machine, we put an end to, and insist that it is necessary to open an experimental design work on creating a new car. This option was adopted. April 2010, 195 - black date in the statement of Mr. Popovkin. Without finishing one car, we already want a "new" one. Without bringing this "new" one, we still want to make a "supernova". For KB, this option is most beneficial. If the state, of course, has money and is willing to pay for this eternal development work. When the General was replaced, the idea of ​​a "platform" was pushed through, and it is not a step higher, although it quite naturally relies on the achievements of the XNUMXth, but is presented as something revolutionary and "really breakthrough", but in essence, it is deevolution or even degradation in its universal budget essence.

The main thing is that there would remain specialists who can do this ....

[tchoni]

As for the T-14 armature, I will say this: The only thing that guards me in this tank is the small angle of the vertical aiming of the gun. And that’s all. To say that there were projects that 10 years ago would ensure the birth of a tank similar to the T-14 - I think it is not very correct.
What worked once at the training ground will not necessarily work in the troops.

[Signaller]

There is so much written darkness. Must read. Well, until the morning. The morning of the evening is wiser. I’ll get up, think, write. Good luck.

[Chizh]

In my opinion, the 152-mm gun is not needed or is needed only for export. The tank should not fight with the tank, it is intended to support infantry. Destroy the armored vehicles of the enemy should be artillery, aviation and infantry, as well as BMPT (tank support fighting vehicle). Reduction of ammunition due to the increase in caliber, it leads to a decrease in the presence in the area of ​​direct fire contact and the withdrawal of equipment, which will endanger the infantry. It is better to improve the power of ammunition and increase the ammunition. The times of armored armada battles have passed. Maybe they are possible in the desert, that's for them and 152 mm will come in handy.

[viktmell]

But situations on the battlefield are different - and the tank must be able to fight with the tank. And I'm sorry, having a cannon on the tank that can’t hit an enemy tank is stupid. If you fight purely with ATGMs, then really - why tanks? By the way, what if tanks disappear - why ATGM? We fight purely from sofas - drones !!!

[Chizh]

Good article Shells for Russian tanks.
gurkhan.blogspot.co.uk ›2014/07 / blog-post_14.html

[viktmell]

And I feel sorry for 80 ... I remember from the training grounds. Impressive.

[BARMEN628651]

Rosoboronexport would bring this project to the world market and the armada will drive us to the army