T-14 "send to landfill" NATO anti-tank ammunition

Adoption tanks T-14 “Armata” will lead to the fact that the arsenal of anti-tank missiles available in NATO will remain effective weapons only against outdated models of tanks. Yes, and they are quite possible to equip a protective complex of the type of "arkhtovskogo," said the expert Lev Romanov. He writes about this in his article for Messenger of Mordovia.

“T-14 has an advanced multi-level security system. It is literally strewn with sensors that scan the space around the car. There are 10 attacking elements of the active defense complex (KAZ) against ammunition flying in what is called a direct ammunition. It was reported that the KAZ installed at Armata is capable of intercepting not only high-speed anti-tank missiles, but also armor-piercing sabots, ”writes Romanov.

“Another new product is a self-defense complex with two rotating launchers and a vertical launch system for special ammunition,” he notes.
Probably, this system is “designed to disrupt the attacks of Javelin-type missiles, self-aiming ammunition and other types of precision weapons,” the author believes. All in all, the tank arsenal around 50 of such ammunition.

A similar defense has heavy BMP on the basis of "Armata".

According to the expert, such systems can also be installed on T-72B3 and T-90 tanks. Technical difficulties should not arise, the problem is different - in price.

"In any case, we can already say that the protection of domestic armored vehicles has entered a new, significantly higher technological level," concludes Romanov.

Comments

[Petr1]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Oh well

Do not believe me?

[STOP VOINE 2014]

Well, a mirage ...

[ℳy ℒiƒℯ]

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

[Petr1]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Deleted the commit. Bravo moderators.

I deleted it myself, I didn’t want to beat my minute record

[science fiction writer]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

Yes, I got already with this Armata stalled.

[activator]

Quote: fiction

Yes, I got already with this Armata stalled.

A person has at least some kind of positive in life.

[Rus2012]

Quote: activator

Armata stalled.

about this the representative of uralvagon writes -

Tank "Armata": there are no problems with equipment!

The stop of the Armata tank on Red Square caused a stormy reaction from the public. Immediately there were many detractors who were ready to pour mud on new Russian developments. Meanwhile, this case is rather psychological, from the category of what is called the “general effect”, and has nothing to do with technology, unless it forces designers to improve the “protection against the fool”.

Uralvagonzavod, having shipped the tanks of the Moscow Region, and having conducted short-term training of the crews, suggested not to use conscripts as driver mechanics. He suggested replacing them with experienced factory test drivers. The latter not only know their machines perfectly, but also, being testers, are psychologically prepared to overcome all kinds of emergency situations. The reason for what happened today was not the soldier’s ability to overcome psychological stress and cope with panic.

Very little time was devoted to preparing to operate such a new and complex machine. Despite the fact that a lot of things in “Armata” are automated, and thus simplified, as it were, getting used to and developing skills is still required. With driving in columns - even more so. Because the car has excess power density, giving it crazy dynamics. Slightly gazanul ... and rushed forward, slowed down - pecked his nose - behind. Actually, this happened - a small change of gas - the tank rushed forward, then a sharp brake - it got up and died out. Moreover, in one of the videos, it is noticeable that the same jerk was not in the tank coming in front, or in the one nearby.

To stand in the middle of Red Square, in front of the Minister and many television cameras ... but how would you feel if you were in the place of this driver? The guy panicked, began to clutch and put pressure on everything that could be reached - headlights, wipers, air conditioning ... As a result, he himself did not notice how he put the tank on the mountain brake. That is precisely why “Armata”, an approaching “tow truck” - BREM-1, could not pull off. The video clearly shows how the latter polishes cobblestones with his trucks, and the T-14 at the same time stood up and stands like a stake.

The specialists of Uralvagonzavod could not instantly be at the tank that had stopped, but when they arrived, they very quickly understood what was the matter. I got a "cap" and drove, and the one who so unsuccessfully gave the command to drag the tank in tow - because at the same time they could screw up the transmission! "Uvezovtsy" without any problems removed the tank from the brake and started it. Everything is exactly as the deputy general director of the corporation Alexei Zharich described in social networks shortly after the incident. The only thing that took some time to figure out what was turned on / off there and bring the electronics of the tank control system to its original state.

It is thought that this significant case will force the military to be more attentive to the recommendations of the industry, and the organizers of the parades will be forced to change the rules for their implementation. In particular, it is necessary to reduce the number of trainings "in public", i.e. in the city - these rehearsals erode and undermine the whole meaning of the celebration. I think that it is quite possible to get by with just one dress rehearsal, and then at night. The rest is held away from prying eyes by onlookers and the press in Alabino. When it comes to events of this magnitude, the people do not need to know the whole background. After all, what turns out is like a usual technical patch during training, and what a tremendous reputation damage it did to both the Corporation and the Armed Forces, and to the State itself. As they say, "spoons were found, but the sediment remained!"

[Siberian1965]

Thank you for the detailed analysis of the incident. I am sure that everything was so. Based on the results of the comments, I am becoming more and more convinced that there are few people who are associated with technology and with real production in the country.

[gorge1945]

And what can you teach a conscript soldier for a year of service, with increased levels of technology. In 1964, I was drafted into the Navy from 4 years of service, 9 months of training in a training detachment. And now that the technical level of weapons has grown significantly, it’s not realistic to prepare a warrior for
year.

[Kaiten]

Quote: gorge1945

And what can you teach a conscript soldier for a year of service, with increased levels of technology. In 1964, I was drafted into the Navy from 4 years of service, 9 months of training in a training detachment. And now that the technical level of weapons has grown significantly, it’s not realistic to prepare a warrior for
year.

I apologize for getting in. I absolutely agree with you. I do not quite understand your system of training soldiers. A good soldier must be taught at least six months to a year. And when will he give the army, if he should serve only a year?

[scientist]

The more complex the armament, the more dangerous it is to let conscript soldiers. Only contractors should serve on such equipment. Or in general, while Armat is not enough to make commander’s staff cars out of them, so that only officers will be engaged in their operation and running-in.

[ty60]

I’m ready to object. The general level of development of today's youth is not comparable to ours. A young brain absorbs everything like a sponge. A year to get basic knowledge is complete. But for polishing to the level of MASTERY, I’m afraid it will take a couple more years.

[SgaSuperblade]

I'm afraid you overestimate the young brains of young people too much. The level of education in Russia is rapidly falling, every day scientists blow the fact that the world's population is getting dumber, where can we get the brilliant youth who are going through military service? All such equipment should be managed by officers or at least contract soldiers who went through an in-depth study of the subject

[Protos]

This is the brain, sho soaked in beer and pull the rims from condoms ??
Do not tell my horseshoes
Yes, the modern "young replenishment" is stupid, armless, thieving, lazy, and at the same time without any moral principles ..
Commanders are hung up because pre-conscription training at zero!
Of these, only in a YEAR something can already be done, in the sense of entrusting the equipment more difficult SL110CHK

[BLACK-SHARK-64]

therefore, the contractors ...

[4thParasinok]

Quote: ty60

A year to get basic knowledge is complete. But for polishing to the level of MASTERY, I’m afraid it will take a couple more years.

and to whom exactly do you answer? it was said above about the fact that the year is not enough: a year of training and then service.

[BLACK-SHARK-64]

I agree completely ...

[yugan]

A year, no less than that, provided that the fighter is constantly engaged in combat training, and not PCB, combatant, guard, etc. etc. Exaggerated of course, all this is also necessary, but the main emphasis is combat.

[Protos]

The first year is the transformation of a vegetable into a fighter - It is ONLY "pkhd, combatant, guard"
Because all this teaches you to order and self-discipline, the ability to live in a team, and, most importantly, to the ABILITY TO OBEY IMMEDIATELY, and not to ask "why am I?"
The service must be at least 2 years!

[demon is ada]

Very sorry everyone , the question is essentially
You can easily do it in six months, the question is who to call ... Graduates of technical universities are generally a fairy tale for command. For gummonetarnye , such as a military department and then in the style of ala infantry ...
The question is a qualitative rethinking of the role of the state and its priorities. That is, it is simply necessary not only affordable , and I would even say compulsory higher education at a good level ... As always, Jewish mothers remind their children to study and study ... Although you can’t twist or turn, what happens is life has a beginning, without it it’s just not to survive ... the farther, the worse. With the development of technology, simple household appliances will kill hundreds of thousands. Look at the statistics of car accidents, injuries at work, etc. ... in my opinion, the most sophisticated, veiled genocide ... So whoever pokes knowledge and prevents education is the enemy of mankind ...

[tundra]

The appeal of the 80th r \ tlg, constant training and under the dmb, platoon com says I need radio operators like you and you again to train young people on a demobilization. And then a year of service and laughter and sin.

[max702]

I never understood this fetish .. how you can put a conscript 18 years old for driving a car worth several hundred million rubles .. It’s not comprehensible to my mind. for example, 18 guys come to the enterprise and that after 1-2 months of study he will be entrusted with work on an expensive machine? or in a car dealership put on a brand new expensive car? NEVER! and why ? but everything is simple, in the civilian sector, the managers of the enterprise bear responsibility for the material part, and they will never trust a youngster with complex and expensive equipment because it is fraught with material losses. the army is not so there is nothing of its own, everything is state-owned. and therefore no one will screw up the "young" inexperienced technique is bad but not fatal if you can't fix it then write off the technique there are a lot of ways

[Roman 57 rus]

Tell me, in case of war you will also look for a trained contingent? The task of BT designers is to create a model that does not require highly qualified staff.

[northern]

It is customary to prepare for war in advance, and not to meet it with a bare ass. for this we need contract soldiers, reservists, military training. This is how this "trained contingent" is created. And the task of the designers is not to make a Flintstones' car, but a technique that surpasses that of the enemy (including in terms of economy).

[REZMovec]

Roman 57 rus, you are fundamentally wrong. In case of war, tens of thousands of tanks will be required, and the share of the "wunderwaffel", which is "Armata", will be negligible, even if they are released in the planned 2300 units. It is on this technique that, at least, warrant officers should serve - this is what they did in the Strategic Missile Forces, where the mechanics of launchers are warrant officers, but not conscripts and mobilized ones. For such a massive contingent, there is T-55/62/72. Even on the T-90 there is no point in planting a mobreserve.

[Setrac]

Quote: Roman 57 rus

The task of VT designers is to create a model that does not require highly qualified staff.

A tank is not our case, there are too few of them and professionals can be imprisoned.

[Roman 57 rus]

Correctly! Put the professionals in, so that in the future they can tell the KB what is wrong where, what needs to be fixed, add, transfer, redo, so that the equipment becomes as easy to learn as possible! (The simpler the more reliable S. Korolev)

[northern]

P7 is good, but by no means simple.

[Ile ham]

And in this case in the Russian Federation there is a system of conscription of reserve servicemen (fees of "partisans") - in order to remember that they could have forgotten, and to learn something new.

[BLACK-SHARK-64]

if the armature is handed over to a conscript every year, it will be scrap metal in 3 years, if a woman shook hands, this is no longer a woman, "fucking ---- d", also with equipment ... On such a tank there are only officers, and only so ... Because they are built on people's money ...

[BLACK-SHARK-64]

Only contract soldiers, and indeed on such tanks should be junior officers ...

[Serafim-k]

Quote: Siberian1965

that people associated with technology and with real production in the country are offensively few.

With Victory Day, this is first, and secondly ... look at the slopes of the frontal armor of the tower and want to leave it better .. but in Russian say shit, it reminds you of KV ... well, as we usually say, the war (plan) will show.

[SAXA.SHURA]

What kind of great special. on tanks?

[boris-1230]

the slopes of the frontal armor of the tower wish to leave the best.

Another enthusiast - "specialist" -designer! The slope of the armor is not according to Feng Shu. Did you try to teach "Progress" to fly?

[gromhal]

The KV tank was a horror for the Nazis. Panzer-1,2 pressed without noticing. That. that they were ineptly pissed away in the 41st - the fault of the "victory marshals" One KV held back Guderian's vanguard for 3 days, destroying 30 fascist tanks. Captured KV Hitler used in the defense of Berlin in the 45th.

[SgaSuperblade]

Another guest from World of Tanks who truly believes that tanks destroy by shooting at hatches on a tower

[gromhal]

Another mudlet from couch troops is trying to fart on the best tank of our time. Who will look at the ruins of Washington.

[Concealer]

What do you know about the KV tank? It was an excellent tank, but literate crews were sorely lacking for it. And of course he was fantastically complex in production. But he was worth it. Just look at the story, read the documents, WHAT exactly did the competent crew on the HF do. No one else in the world succeeded.
Another question is that it was effectively difficult to use it at the beginning of the war, but this is already a matter of strategy, and not the qualities of the KV tank.

[Ile ham]

By the way - remember Kolobanov ..

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: Concealer

What do you know about the KV tank? It was an excellent tank, but literate crews were sorely lacking for it. And of course he was fantastically complex in production. But he was worth it. Just look at the story, read the documents, WHAT exactly did the competent crew on the HF do. No one else in the world succeeded.
Another question is that it was effectively difficult to use it at the beginning of the war, but this is already a matter of strategy, and not the qualities of the KV tank.

And when did you need to use it efficiently? In the middle of the war or at the end? A tank is a tank, and it is always effective to use it whenever wherever

[am808s]

Have YOU dealt with real modern production or construction in recent years? I don’t know who said “cadres decide everything,” so it’s so only skilled workers, it’s like gold in the breed. 7 pots will come off until you find out. The trouble is that they are not very much appreciated "at the gates of the queue" and the tendency of "I am the boss YOU" prevails among the authorities more and more. Think about it, shouting Hurray! In the tank electronics heaped up And if on him as on "Donald Cook" - Will also die? And millions are thrown away? Will the frontal tracks be open? The tank is certainly beautiful! The crew is safely hidden But only the Boy can decide how much "Hurray!"

[iouris]

You are definitely right. It is the working class that is the foundation of the state. After 1991, all conditions were created for its destruction in accordance with the recipes of M. Thatcher, literally damned in his own country.

[gromhal]

Do you think a tank has been created for the parade? Read the characteristics, "expert". Electronics catches and is capable of destroying up to 10 of your javelins. It is impossible to protect tracks in principle.

[REZMovec]

am808s, Your words: - "They've heaped up the electronics in the tank. And if it is like" Donald Cook "- it also dies? And millions are thrown away?" - have a place to be understood. My friend served as the commander of the T-80U tank in the GSVG. So he says that there are 46 fuses on the tank (or so, I don't remember exactly), one "screwed up" and USYO until you find which one, until you eliminate the cause of the short circuit, the "sho cart" tank. And here everything is automated ...

[igor.borov775]

Hey. This is a clean car. In the parade is only a clean option. And those who saw photos of the prototypes should understand that there isn’t much on it that will be hung on a clean car. We must pay tribute to the child T-95 and the Black Eagle absorbed all the advantages from their ancestors.

[Throw]

It is not clear why the chopped notches were made on the "Armata" tower. Almost corner reflectors turned out. Especially for the radar station of sworn partners or what? ..
Secondly, once in the recess BOPS will not ricochet, so the whole impulse will go to the tower and turn it around ...

What will the Mordovian messengers answer to this "design"?)

[Samurai3X]

Do you still believe in the modern world such a thing as a rebound?

[Throw]

And what a rebound that the UN directive canceled ?!
Or do you naively think that armor-piercing at right angles always fall like a bomb into the epicenter?

[Samurai3X]

Do you know what the vast majority of tank losses in a modern war are?
On armor-piercing shells of other tanks?
The use of aviation and ambush from ATGM and RPG canceled our MO?
Tanks are made to strengthen attack aircraft (to clear the city), but not to fight with other tanks, although this is possible.

[AzBooks]

Quote: Samurai3X

Do you know what the vast majority of tank losses in a modern war are?
On armor-piercing shells of other tanks?
The use of aviation and ambush from ATGM and RPG canceled our MO?

KAZ does not affect ATGM and RPG?

[Samurai3X]

These systems appeared because tank losses were mainly from Helicopters, Aviation, and ATGMs. Therefore, KAZs appeared.
If there were losses within 13-15%, it would be unknown if such systems would appear.
I write that now tanks are a means of reinforcing infantry. Armored tank fists remained in 1945, and in some heads now. It is good that the military now understands the role of the tank and does not dream of hordes at the English Channel ...

[AzBooks]

Quote: Samurai3X

These systems appeared because tank losses were mainly from Helicopters, Aviation, and ATGMs. Therefore, KAZs appeared.

Tank losses from ATGMs are the first Arab-Israeli wars.
Losses from PT helicopters ... a lot has been written, but in real life I have not heard of such ones yet.

Quote: Samurai3X

I write that now tanks are a means of reinforcing infantry.

In fact, tanks are ALWAYS a means of reinforcing infantry. From the beginning of time (the use of tanks) to this day.

Quote: Samurai3X

Armored Tank Fists

In Ozerov’s films and fantasies of an ignoramus like Pavlov (for which, in the end, he was shot). Without infantry, a tank is a target, if not in the first line of defense, then in the second or third.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Pavlov ignoramus? you probably mixed up with Tukhachevsky, that one was so ignorant, along with Zhukov, who were pushing through the thunderous mechanized corps, and Pavlov was for tank divisions that were unlike mobile

[ARES623]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

Pavlov ignoramus? you probably mixed up with Tukhachevsky, that one was so ignorant, along with Zhukov, who were pushing through the thunderous mechanized corps, and Pavlov was for tank divisions that were unlike mobile
Reply Quote Report Abuse

Oorfene Deuce's soldiers were all made of wood, including the best ones. This is exactly how you reason. Strategist, m ... la! It would be nice to grasp the essence of the topic under discussion, for a start. To crush a loaf on Zhukov, you must at least win a "battle" with cockroaches in your head, not to mention more.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

The answer is about nothing, if you have no knowledge on this issue, why then comment?

[Kaiten]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

Pavlov ignoramus? you probably mixed up with Tukhachevsky, that one was so ignorant, along with Zhukov, who were pushing through the thunderous mechanized corps, and Pavlov was for tank divisions that were unlike mobile

Lack of command and control skills.

An idiotic march for hundreds of kilometers as a result of which many cars were lost.
He did not organize the provision of tanks with fuel as a result of hundreds of vehicles were lost.
Pavlov poorly used interaction with the Air Force, ground troops either did not have aerial reconnaissance data or the information was outdated.
Yes, one of the latest T-34 and KV tanks that were subordinate to him, it was possible to stop the German offensive with proper use. Pavlov commanded a huge force, but he was not able to use it properly. The fact that the Nazis took Kiev is largely his fault.
A little later, near Moscow, the correct use of the Soviet newest T-34 and KV tanks in tank ambushes showed the advantage of the new Soviet tanks. .

[SPQR1977]

Didn't Pavlov command the Western District? And Kiev is the South-Western direction in my Kirponos commanded. And from the teachings of 1940 did not draw the proper conclusions.

[My doctor]

Quote: Kaiten

Stupid march for hundreds of kilometers

...

Quote: Kaiten

The fact that the Nazis took Kiev is largely his fault.

Technique should not make throws for 100 kilometers? ... I divided your words with an ellipsis due to the fact that I do not want to replicate and even more so comment on your nonsense.

[Kaiten]

Quote: MyVrach

Technique should not make throws for 100 kilometers? ...

I also don’t want to get into discussion here about the initial period of the war - the topic is inexhaustible.
Technique should naturally perform marches. However, it is pernicious to know where we are actually going. Here's a quote for you:
“At 22 o'clock on June 22, the division received an order to move to a new area of ​​concentration - the station Valpa (eastern Bialystok) and the subsequent task: to destroy the tank division that had broken through in the Bialystok area. - for the indiscriminate retreat of the rear of the army from Bialystok (road service was not established.) The division, being on the march and in the concentration area from 4 to 9 o'clock and from 11 to 14 o'clock on June 23, was constantly under the attacks of enemy aviation. and being in the concentration area until 14:63, the division had losses: tanks were knocked out - 13, all the rear of the regiments were destroyed, in particular the rear of the XNUMXth regiment suffered.
8. The enemy's tank division was not found in the Belsk area, so the division was not used .... "

Taken from here:
http://militera.lib.ru/tw/pavlov_zheltov_pavlov/08.html

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Well, air supremacy was behind the Luftwaffe, and what did you want after that?

[Poppy]

equipment with a motor resource of 150 hours?
But in fact it was less

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

just made from Pavlov such a good red arrowman, Stalin and Zhukov will not admit their own mistakes

[Kaiten]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

just made from Pavlov such a good red arrowman, Stalin and Zhukov will not admit their own mistakes

Yes, they made a switchman. But this does not negate the fact of his incompetence. Why, if a regiment is advanced 30–40 km, intelligence will certainly advance. Why, if divisions are advanced, they are simply driven without any information support. Here is a diagram of the Bialystok-Minsk battle. Pay attention to the Soviet units with the Germans often go back-parallel courses. They simply do not suspect that the Germans have already gone far ahead. This battle is very little known, although in fact it can be called the general battle of the initial period of the war. If the Soviet troops could give a worthy answer in this battle, then, paradoxically, the war would have passed with little blood on foreign territory. And so they lost the bulk of the regular army.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

And what did you want? When you suddenly get hit on the head, you don’t always immediately get in touch, there was such a discord and misunderstanding

[igor.borov775]

What did YOU see here. In the first minutes of the war, 45 rifle and 75 rifle divisions covering the border were practically destroyed. No one had ever foreseen the concentration of artillery in such narrow places. And the number of tanks moving to broken positions even now is staggering. Or you did not know. More than 2 thousand. It was through these positions (45cd) and (75cd) that the Guderian and Gepner Tank Army Group rushed. It was they who went deep into the territory during the day of battles for 100 km or more. They suddenly appeared in front of the alarming parts of the second border cover echelons of troops. There was hell. Yes, and the headquarters did not immediately believe in such a reality. Deep in the rear, German tanks and motorized infantry were crushing the advancing divisions on the march. Specifically, the cover divisions with battles were withdrawing precisely from the fighting and not fleeing. Read Pavlov’s report on the first day war communications albeit not strong but was with all the parts that entered the battle. There is only information from 45sd and 75sd that the delegates sent did not return and did not give news. And one more thing. After the war, there was a Military Practical Conference on the outbreak of war. We studied all the documents and ours and the Germans. The whole color of our Army took part in it. For general development, read and questionnaires that were carefully collected from all who met the war on the border.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Why are there cover divisions on the border? They are these divisions and there are 300-500 kilometers from the border, they have nothing to do if they want to defend themselves, and if they attack then, then they should be located a couple of kilometers from the border

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

But why is it such worthless losses? So because they themselves wanted to attack, but it didn’t work out. They didn’t get ready for defense. If all the troops on the line, Stalin, all five and a half million on 21 were sitting on the defense, and they would keep the defense only for 500 km, and there already mobilization and another 10 million on the way, they would not have passed 000 percent beyond the Stalin line

[guard]

Today, 21: 17 ↑ New
But why is it such worthless losses? So because they themselves wanted to attack, but it didn’t work out. They didn’t get ready for defense. If all the troops on the line, Stalin, all five and a half million on 21 were sitting on the defense, and they would keep the defense only for 500 km, and there already mobilization and another 10 million on the way, they would not have passed 000 percent beyond the Stalin line


The fact that the Soviet Union wanted to attack Germany is a myth invented by the West and disseminated by the Russian liberal media. Why, in order to equate Stalin with Hitler, work is ongoing in this regard to this day.
As for the big losses at the beginning of the war, it seems to me that you can’t talk about one thing, I think many factors played here. I think the army had a lot of opponents of Stalin and his policies, the reason was the purge for 37 years, maybe the German intelligence worked flawlessly, maybe the British intelligence put a lot of effort into this, well, there weren’t enough qualified personnel officers, and the German army was the strongest the moment, the most equipped, and already run-in to capture the whole of Europe. They had enough experience in conducting a full-scale war, which cannot be said about the USSR, the Finnish war is a confirmation of this.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

And we that experience was not enough? Or was less equipped? Yes, many times more. And all were enough and everyone was superior to the Germans. And you think the Germans would have broken the Mannerheim line, but figs there.

[Setrac]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

And we that experience was not enough?

We did not have enough time to mobilize and deploy troops.
The frontier battle of 5.5 million Wehrmacht soldiers with satellites against 3.2 million Red Army soldiers.
Contrary to popular belief, Russian Europeans were filling up with meat.

[Protos]

Reindeer writing with quotes from the "creations" of the prostitute Viktor Rezun (aka Viktor Suvorov) should be banned immediately, they will start multiplying, then nothing will be eradicated

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: Protos

Reindeer writing with quotes from the "creations" of the prostitute Viktor Rezun (aka Viktor Suvorov) should be banned immediately, they will start multiplying, then nothing will be eradicated

What do you dislike about him? If you haven’t read his books, then why the hell are you discussing? And if you read and didn’t understand anything, then I sincerely feel sorry for you, you are incorrigible by its very nature. Read better than Zhukov’s memoirs, and similar military leaders, and modern subversives who want to hide the true truth from the people.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: guard

Today, 21: 17 ↑ New
But why is it such worthless losses? So because they themselves wanted to attack, but it didn’t work out. They didn’t get ready for defense. If all the troops on the line, Stalin, all five and a half million on 21 were sitting on the defense, and they would keep the defense only for 500 km, and there already mobilization and another 10 million on the way, they would not have passed 000 percent beyond the Stalin line


The fact that the Soviet Union wanted to attack Germany is a myth invented by the West and disseminated by the Russian liberal media. Why, in order to equate Stalin with Hitler, work is ongoing in this regard to this day.
As for the big losses at the beginning of the war, it seems to me that you can’t talk about one thing, I think many factors played here. I think the army had a lot of opponents of Stalin and his policies, the reason was the purge for 37 years, maybe the German intelligence worked flawlessly, maybe the British intelligence put a lot of effort into this, well, there weren’t enough qualified personnel officers, and the German army was the strongest the moment, the most equipped, and already run-in to capture the whole of Europe. They had enough experience in conducting a full-scale war, which cannot be said about the USSR, the Finnish war is a confirmation of this.

Do you think if the Germans attacked the Finns as Norwegians, then it would all become little blood to them? nothing like that, but the line of the mannerheim would not have passed at all.

[andj61]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

Do you think if the Germans attacked the Finns as Norwegians, then it would all become little blood to them? nothing like that, but the line of the mannerheim would not have passed at all.

The Mannerheim Line was on the border of the USSR with Finland. And if the Germans attacked, then from the sea and from the north, from Norway. What would the Mannerheim line help there?
The Finns began to fight stubbornly, because more recently they were part of the Russian Empire, and Mannerheim was a general of the Russian army and kept the portrait of the last emperor on the table until the end of his life. The Finns knew that the Bolsheviks would not forgive the Finnish Bolsheviks who had been destroyed 20 years before: in Finland, unlike Russia, the White won in the civil war. So they rested. And with respect to the Germans - everything would be exactly the same as with the Norwegians.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: andj61

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

Do you think if the Germans attacked the Finns as Norwegians, then it would all become little blood to them? nothing like that, but the line of the mannerheim would not have passed at all.

The Mannerheim Line was on the border of the USSR with Finland. And if the Germans attacked, then from the sea and from the north, from Norway. What would the Mannerheim line help there?
The Finns began to fight stubbornly, because more recently they were part of the Russian Empire, and Mannerheim was a general of the Russian army and kept the portrait of the last emperor on the table until the end of his life. The Finns knew that the Bolsheviks would not forgive the Finnish Bolsheviks who had been destroyed 20 years before: in Finland, unlike Russia, the White won in the civil war. So they rested. And with respect to the Germans - everything would be exactly the same as with the Norwegians.

I mean, if the Germans broke the line purely hypothetically. And if Stalin would not attack Finland and be friends with her. It is quite likely that she could be an ally of the USSR. Norway was given to Hitler not by little blood, and after the victory he was forced there was to hold 10 divisions because there was resistance. And those who went to Hitler to the service, and there were very few of them, were contemplated by all Norwegians, so it could be with the Finns, if it hadn't happened what really happened.

[Kaiten]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

So because they themselves wanted to attack, but it didn’t work out. They didn’t prepare for defense

Without intelligence, without air support, any war is doomed. The enemy will locally concentrate troops in a certain area with an advantage, break through the line of defense locally and end the rout with flank attacks. The Germans did just that, which is why the paradox at the beginning of the war turned out - the number of Soviet troops was more than German, more tanks. more planes - and the Red Army suffers defeat after defeat.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

So the whole catch is whoever hits first. If we were the first, then tens of thousands of captured Germans would go to our rear, and the clang of thousands of Soviet tanks would be heard already at the walls of Berlin after three months

[Setrac]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

So the whole snag is who first hits.

The Red Army PHYSICALLY could not strike first.

[Setrac]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

So the whole snag is who first hits.

How can you be so dense? The Germans were the first to hit and hit, their mobilization and deployment of troops is several times smaller, corny because of the shorter distances.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

and you about the hidden mobilization that began in the autumn of 1939, as I understand it, I didn’t hear anything. By the beginning of June 41. Soviet troops already had more than five million

[Setrac]

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

and you're talking about a hidden mobilization that began in the autumn of 1939, as I understand it, I heard nothing

Hidden mobilization was failed, the Germans knew about it. And in general, hidden mobilization is from the realm of fiction; it is impossible to hide it. And considering that the Wehrmacht was ALREADY MOBILIZED, how could the Red Army get ahead of it?

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

by the beginning of June 41. Soviet troops already had more than five million

By the beginning of the war, they managed to transfer 3.2 million, everything else - past the cash register, they did not have time and the Germans did not intend to give us time to transfer.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: Setrac

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

and you're talking about a hidden mobilization that began in the autumn of 1939, as I understand it, I heard nothing

Hidden mobilization was failed, the Germans knew about it. And in general, hidden mobilization is from the realm of fiction; it is impossible to hide it. And considering that the Wehrmacht was ALREADY MOBILIZED, how could the Red Army get ahead of it?

Quote: Oorfene Deuce's best soldier

by the beginning of June 41. Soviet troops already had more than five million

By the beginning of the war, they managed to transfer 3.2 million, everything else - past the cash register, they did not have time and the Germans did not intend to give us time to transfer.

do not say nonsense, nothing failed.

[Setrac]

Quote: Kaiten

the number of Soviet troops more than German, more tanks. more planes

It's a lie.
The Germans have more soldiers, the Germans have more tanks with anti-shell armor, the Germans have more modern aircraft.

[ruslan207]

Kaiten (1) -You look strategist!
Everyone hung on Pavlov’s dogs, but you don’t take into account that the Germans had all of Europe behind them and had great experience in waging war and the German soldiers were already fired. The sabotage groups operating in the rear destroyed the bridges, one of them was Brandenburg -800. It’s easy to judge behind steel

[Kaiten]

Quote: ruslan207

Kaiten (1) -You look strategist!
Everyone hung on Pavlov’s dogs, but you don’t take into account that the Germans had all of Europe behind them and had great experience in waging war and the German soldiers were already fired. The sabotage groups operating in the rear destroyed the bridges, one of them was Brandenburg -800. It’s easy to judge behind steel

Of course, everyone imagines himself a strategist seeing the battle from the side. I absolutely agree with you that the main, most powerful blow fell on Pavlov’s troops. The tactics of the German troops were innovative, and this is precisely what allowed them to conquer all of Europe, defeat France and Poland (far from the weakest country in Europe). The flight of the British troops to Dunkirk differs little from the defeat of the Soviet troops in the initial period. Pavlov most likely was a mediocre military leader holding too high a position that did not correspond to his abilities. This position should have been a man whose military talent is not inferior to the abilities of the German generals who acted against him. Pavlov acted too predictably and this ruined him.

[demon is ada]

Well, basically you’re right, the reason for the defeat is banal - it’s just that the leadership turned out to be people who are not capable of this type of activity. I do not say that they are generally useless ... for example, Taburetkin and Vasilyeva are a typical example of that time, he can be a wonderful furniture maker, and she is a creative person, but they have nothing to do in the Moscow Region . They were brought there by a system that arose from the tacit consent of people ... the punishment for this is very bloody ...
About

Quote: Kaiten

The tactics of the German troops were innovative, and this is precisely what allowed them to conquer all of Europe, defeat France and Poland (far from the weakest country in Europe).

The same Zhukov lectured them on this "innovative" tactic. before the war, and here he was considered a minor idiot, but the Germans took this seriously ...
Almost all of the German command was trained in the USSR, therefore, no one believed that they would climb to the place where they got the knowledge ... Mania of grandeur however ... they decided to become world gods ...
In fact, not only the Germans had delusions of grandeur, but also some leaders here ... this is generally a global problem for today ... it is impossible to take the place of the BG, it is corny immortal ... although if of course it’s ... but as practice shows, this is impossible, he always remains who he is, and woe to those who think otherwise

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: demon is ada

Well, basically you’re right, the reason for the defeat is banal - it’s just that the leadership turned out to be people who are not capable of this type of activity. I do not say that they are generally useless ... for example, Taburetkin and Vasilyeva are a typical example of that time, he can be a wonderful furniture maker, and she is a creative person, but they have nothing to do in the Moscow Region . They were brought there by a system that arose from the tacit consent of people ... the punishment for this is very bloody ...
About

Quote: Kaiten

The tactics of the German troops were innovative, and this is precisely what allowed them to conquer all of Europe, defeat France and Poland (far from the weakest country in Europe).

The same Zhukov lectured them on this "innovative" tactic. before the war, and here he was considered a minor idiot, but the Germans took this seriously ...
Almost all of the German command was trained in the USSR, therefore, no one believed that they would climb to the place where they got the knowledge ... Mania of grandeur however ... they decided to become world gods ...
In fact, not only the Germans had delusions of grandeur, but also some leaders here ... this is generally a global problem for today ... it is impossible to take the place of the BG, it is corny immortal ... although if of course it’s ... but as practice shows, this is impossible, he always remains who he is, and woe to those who think otherwise

Moreover, there was a sort of megalomania: Hitler was considered demon-possessed but was far from a nerd, he understood that he would hesitate a little longer and would erase him himself. He simply had no choice how to attack first, although he was not ready for war. But we prepared very well, we can say that it’s even chic. The key word here is who is the first and a huge advantage.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: Kaiten

Quote: ruslan207

Kaiten (1) -You look strategist!
Everyone hung on Pavlov’s dogs, but you don’t take into account that the Germans had all of Europe behind them and had great experience in waging war and the German soldiers were already fired. The sabotage groups operating in the rear destroyed the bridges, one of them was Brandenburg -800. It’s easy to judge behind steel

Of course, everyone imagines himself a strategist seeing the battle from the side. I absolutely agree with you that the main, most powerful blow fell on Pavlov’s troops. The tactics of the German troops were innovative, and this is precisely what allowed them to conquer all of Europe, defeat France and Poland (far from the weakest country in Europe). The flight of the British troops to Dunkirk differs little from the defeat of the Soviet troops in the initial period. Pavlov most likely was a mediocre military leader holding too high a position that did not correspond to his abilities. This position should have been a man whose military talent is not inferior to the abilities of the German generals who acted against him. Pavlov acted too predictably and this ruined him.

Innovative tactics, do not make laugh. The Germans took it from us. And they applied them first in June 39 on a halkin-goal. Pavlov was a good military leader, he proved it in Spain. It was simply put in such conditions from the very beginning that there even the genius of leadership talent, at least someone would probably not have done better. The troops were completely unprepared for defense, and no one taught them this. Because the offensive doctrine was planned, and not sitting on the defensive.

[Protos]

"Brandenburg 600"

[aleshka]

the best soldier urfin jusa ??? I mean, are you wooden ???

[Aqela]

Well, yes, well, wooden But what are you picking on?
Do you think that logging your opinion is not allowed?

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Akela missed the campaign ,,,,,,,,,,, Well, it's just from a lack of knowledge on the topic, no more

[igor.borov775]

Hello !! He is not wooden. He is just like the German soldier of that time. Truth in arrogance and lies he surpasses them.

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Quote: igor.borov775

Hello !! He is not wooden. He is just like the German soldier of that time. Truth in arrogance and lies he surpasses them.

But you surpass everyone here in your incompetence. And there’s nothing to boast of your narrow-mindedness about ignorance.

[Kaiten]

Quote: AzBooks

fantasies of an ignoramus like Pavlov (for which, in the end, he was shot). Without infantry, a tank is a target, if not in the first line of defense, then in the second or third.

100%

[Setrac]

Quote: AzBooks

In fact, tanks are ALWAYS a means of reinforcing infantry. From the beginning of time (the use of tanks) to this day.

This is not true. In armored forces, infantry covers tanks from enemy infantry, and not vice versa. Infantry provides tanks and not infantry tanks. And what you said is made by self-propelled guns and assault guns.

[glasha3032]

... "helicopters. aviation" ... - the last two wars - Chechnya and Georgia, the current one in Ukraine - aviation, alas, is not used ... Some ATGMs! Do not track events ...

[glasha3032]

Cons - deny the lack of aviation in these wars or outrage? I already wrote - to me minuses - nevermind, you answer the question. Or little motivation? Ochkuyte?

[RUSIVAN]

There is one motivation-Women's logic))), but it would not care about the cons I wouldn’t write about them))) ... once again write about the care about the cons))) and don’t forget to put a minus sign, I don’t care on them)))

[glasha3032]

Just wondering why you can put a minus (your disagreement) for the well-known and reliable fact? And the cons - really - do not care!

[demon is ada]

I react to cons ... but not emotionally, it's just an indicator that if I catch cons, I said that people don’t accept
This happens for various reasons, either I couldn’t explain something and they didn’t understand me, or the reality is simply scary for them and they are scared and simply ignore it. This is just feedback, nothing more. But the pluses are nicer, so I did my job well
But I rarely put cons, it’s rather the exception ... for an annoying comment I just don’t put anything but with the pros I have a complete toad ... smothers and smothers ... the infection ... , I put the pros for really life's problems ... well, I redneck ... what really ...

[maai]

Quote: Samurai3X

Tanks are made to strengthen attack aircraft (to clear the city), but not to fight with other tanks, although this is possible.

Do not strip, but crush! Cleans infantry.
Tank - a means of support, suppression and breakthrough.

[Concealer]

Quote: Samurai3X

Tanks are made to strengthen attack aircraft (to clear the city), but not to fight with other tanks, although this is possible.

Where did you read this ??? Tell this to the dead tankmen of the 16th Wehrmacht tank divisions, they will appreciate the joke. They learned all the charms of the city. Previously, this fact was even in school textbooks.

[AzBooks]

Quote: Lance

to the epicenter?

The accuracy of wording, concepts and definitions is the key to a correct understanding of what is happening.

Epicenter (Greek ἐπι - “nad-, pri-”, lat. Centrum - “center”) - perpendicular projection center point of a nuclear explosion or earthquake to the surface of the earth (cf. Hypocenter). The event can be underground (underwater) or above ground.

Wikipedia.

[Throw]

Pedantry

(from Italian. pedare, educate) - a phenomenon that occurs in various areas of life, but most often associated with learning and teaching. A pedant is a person who, because of his form, overlooks the content, jealously observes the usual order in small things and is completely shut off from mental development and forward movement.

Encyclopedic Dictionary F.A. Brockhaus and I.A. Efron

And if you explode in space, where is the epicenter
will be?
Or is it not written about this on the wiki?

[maai]

Quote: Samurai3X

Do you still believe in the modern world such a thing as a rebound?

I’ll add that in the era of the RPG-30 “Hook”, not only the tilt of the armor but also the active defense comes to naught))

[Throw]

Here are strange people. You write about BOPS, in response they write about "Hook".
Either they don’t see the difference, or to write something ...

[Afotin]

Modern BOPS are practically not susceptible to such a phenomenon as a rebound. The projectile, due to its construction, ricochets only if the angle of its meeting with the armor of the target is less than 40 degrees.

[andruha70]

It is not clear why the chopped notches were made on the "Armata" tower.

here I am about the same ... I will express my IMHO: it seems to me that the tower is "fake", and the recesses are for 30mm on one side and 12,7mm on the other ... in a few years, we’ll find out for sure.

[gjv]

Quote: Lance

The result was almost angular reflectors. Especially for the radar of sworn partners or something

Exactly. On planes, there was also such a method - the release of corner reflectors, "specially for the radar of sworn partners".

[fennekRUS]

Quote: Lance

It is not clear why they made chopped notches on the "Armata" tower

Let's look at the shape of the tower after weighing with blocks of DZ, it sometimes changes shape beyond recognition.

[sergey261180]

Quote: Rus2012

The only thing that took some time to figure out what was turned on / off there and bring the electronics of the tank control system to its original state.

We rebooted the "Windows". I think this tank works under Windows, that's why the electronic handbrake turned on. It will be possible to drive it in an unmanned version, straight from the "WOT" interface via the Internet via a 3G network.

[Sergey Vl.]

Rus2012
I absolutely agree with your conclusions, if it came to MO, it would be great! But Alfa-Bank threatens to file with UVZ in the Arbitration Court with the requirement to return the entire (!) Loan at once and declare it an insolvent debtor. I wonder who sits on the Board of Directors of this bank and whether this decision was brought from the banks of the Potomac from our "dark partner"? We need to figure it out and take action.

[fennekRUS]

Quote: Sergey Vl.

That's just Alfa Bank

- It’s time to burn, along with the whole fraternity, which has entrenched in it. Rotten bank through and through

[ochakow703]

And I am generally categorically AGAINST all these trainings in Red Square in this form. On the day of the holiday, the feeling is created that everything has already happened, and you are watching the recording. And there is always a way out, a way out. When filming films, cinematographers build entire cities, so is it really difficult to build "Red Square" in Alabino?

[Falcon]

Quote: Rus2012

Armata stalled.
about this the representative of uralvagon writes -

There is nothing wrong with the fact that the experimental tank stalls. He has not yet gone into the series, and at least it means that the engine there is not from the T-90, and this is already good!

Just listen to what the representatives of the Uralvagonzavod say, definitely not worth it! There is probably very little truth there, as in everything that state media and companies tell us:

Quote: Rus2012

Actually, this happened - a small change of gas - the tank rushed forward, then a sharp brake - it got up and died out. Moreover, in one of the videos, it is noticeable that the same jerk was not in the tank coming in front, or in the one nearby.

Great answer. Those. tank not with automatic transmission? Or how it can stall when braking. And in battle, too, you need to monitor how you slow down? Something here does not fit ...

Quote: Rus2012

The guy panicked, began to clutch and put pressure on everything that could be reached - headlights, wipers, air conditioning ... As a result, he himself did not notice how he put the tank on the mountain brake.

Well this is a primitive of course. It seems that the representative of Uralvagonzavod is not at all familiar with the construction of a mountain brake! This mechanism during movement closes the damper in the engine to brake the engine, and save the resource of the brake system.
This mechanism always has a reverse stroke, it cannot be turned on !!! You can only press and hold it, and as soon as you release it it turns off. And even in the last century, there was automation on the equipment, which did not allow the mountain brake to be turned on when the equipment was standing, so that it would not die out!
Or there’s no such automation on the armature, but I won’t believe it in my life!

Once again I repeat, there is nothing wrong with the fact that the technology that did not go into the series stalls, but we will never know the truth why this happened!

[soaring]

Even on Kamaz, there’s a mountain brake under your foot, which perfectly suppresses diesel ... Think the rest yourself, comrades.

[gladcu2]

On heavy trucks there is a 3 x position button. In any position at minimum speed, the engine continues to run.

Experienced drivers even manage to shift gears, both down and up without turning off engine braking. But only experienced. For beginners, before practice at 2 years old, it remains difficult to manipulate the gearbox. Even with 5 years of experience, there are incidents.

But the explanation of what happened is really a little tense.

[Falcon]

Quote: soaring

Even on Kamaz, there’s a mountain brake under your foot, which perfectly suppresses diesel ... Think the rest yourself, comrades.

The engine brake does not turn off with a mountain brake. Automation does not allow to do this on a standing machine. Only when driving slows down.
And to brake the car with a mountain brake so that it cannot be shifted - this is not possible at all. Since it is completely unconnected

[soaring]

It's not jammed in motion (I'm talking about Kamaz), but when you stand, no problem ...))) I don't know about tanks, I'm not a tanker. I am also not competent about heavy trucks with automatic transmission, I didn’t ride them. Kamaz "a little" I know, almost a familiar car!

[tundra]

That's why I believe him and agree with him.

[boozer]

Is it "stalled" ?! Here WHA if it stalled so stalled! And nothing, I go. "Who has read the Kamasutra" - he knows everything about sex! Whoever had a VAZ knows even more about sex! "

[nathanael]

In fact, for some reason, these mountain brake buttons are placed on a shelf right under your feet. The car accidentally stalled and stalled. It got into such an accident. BMP-1 mech-water

[ROD VDVshny]

Quote: Rus2012

After all, what turns out is like a usual technical patch during training, and what a tremendous reputation damage it did to both the Corporation and the Armed Forces, and to the State itself. As they say, "spoons were found, but the sediment remained!"

Competent comment
As a participant in 2 parades, I can add:
- the engines on all cars of the parade crew are "turned up", the speed of the XX century is much higher
- any action of a mechanic like "lagged behind - you need to catch up" in the usual way can not be performed, the car twitches, and to slow down ... it's not so simple.
- that is why during training it stank of cars and burned main clutches, and very heated engines
- I just keep quiet about the human and "general" factor HE HAS A PLACE TO BE!

But most of all I don't like "well-wishers". Such, when they farted on the first floor, and from the second to the ninth they already claim that they have done so thinly. OBS (one grandma said)

[AZ-YAR]

if Armata had not died out, then our parade would have been viewed by 4,2 million less Svidomites. The viewing by ordinary Bandera men has been increased 1,74 times, by the right-wingers -? (no data).

[glasha3032]

Fantasy and more! I remember that the enemy also had time, they wanted to beat on a foreign land, but with a powerful blow! Then, the truth ran 50 km a day ... from the enemy.

[glasha3032]

Cons set - go against the state policy of the truth about the war? There are doubts about the appeals of the 30s? What, wasn’t that? Do not want to beat the enemy on its territory? But what didn’t work out, in your opinion is not true? Prove it! And then scattered minuses ... I have minuses - for ... I can’t serve in the army, but you should be ashamed of perverting the state policy of the truth about the Great Patriotic War, whatever the truth!

[igorka357]

Anything else to prove?

[glasha3032]

Not yet motivated cons ... Is it weak to give reasons? Pissing? And I have iron support - this is a link to G.K. Zhukov, from where I got the quote! But of course you have not read books and have not realized where the quote comes from! You - "-". !

[Setrac]

Quote: glasha3032

.And give reasons - weak?

Quote: glasha3032

I remember that the enemy also had time, they wanted to beat on a foreign land, but with a powerful blow!

With little blood on foreign territory, this is propaganda among the masses. And at the command and staff exercises, the “west” regularly beat the “east.” In reality, URA, covert mobilization and other efforts aimed at ensuring that the Red Army does not lose the beginning of the war.
Stalin soberly assessed the meager chances of the Red Army to win the border battle, he was a genius, but you are not a genius, and by any criteria that you understand, you assess the chances of the Red Army as high.

[glasha3032]

Having won such a war with such a beginning, Stalin proved that he is a GENIUS! And starting to prepare for war, he clearly understood what advantage must be created for a certain victory. And an advantage was created for them. Further along Suvorov, Solonin, Beshanov and others like them ...

[northern]

I thought you were a Rezunoid, that’s confirmation.

[Setrac]

Quote: glasha3032

And an advantage was created by him.

The USSR did not have an advantage.

[gladcu2]

No negative. True or not. Next time.

Still a holiday.

[igorka357]

And then? And then they zagged this enemy, came to his house .. they killed someone who needed to be destroyed, who needed to be judged, and did everything they wanted in his house and his property, in short, our grandfathers had this enemy as they wanted! There was nothing to come to our land, how much this enemy of our dugout was harassing, but how much more lies ..!

[aleshka]

dear Glasha, and you, as I understand it, know the whole truth about the war ??? and how did you run 50 km? You have a stormy imagination! And Zhukov is not for you to judge!

[glasha3032]

The truth about the war - heaps! Only not all accept this truth, they do not need SUCH truth. About the flight of 50-60 km per day - wrote G. K, Zhukov in his memoirs. No matter how we all treated him differently, he knew what he was writing about and today it is completely stupid to deny THIS. Do you consider Zhukov a dreamer?

[the best soldier Oorfene Deuce]

Zhukov is still a dreamer, he zealously hides his mistakes, and God forbid strangers. He wanted to stay clean, like he had nothing to do with it, they are all them, and I'm such a good one.

[REZMovec]

Pinocchio, running to school, otherwise you will remain a "double")

[glasha3032]

Zhukov hides his mistakes in his memoirs not so much as he describes what was happening at that time (June 41) at the fronts. Read at least once a book .Nevertheless, sit behind a monitor and write nonsense ...

[darkriver]

Quote: glasha3032

The truth about the war - heaps! Only not all accept this truth, they do not need SUCH truth. About the flight of 50-60 km per day - wrote G. K, Zhukov in his memoirs. No matter how we all treated him differently, he knew what he was writing about and today it is completely stupid to deny THIS. Do you consider Zhukov a dreamer?

About the disaster of the 41st year, even amateurs from history know perfectly well, Greenland also opened it to me. And the minuses slapped you quite rightly not for quoting Zhukov, but for your shitty nature, which makes you leave such comments here on May 9th.

[glasha3032]

A good answer About the dead at 41 - silence and silence! There were none of them ... And they were the first who died defending their homeland! Your very nature is still ...

[REZMovec]

Psaki, Jen Psaki) You, young lady, it's time to get ready for childbirth, do all kinds of gymnastics, learn to breathe correctly, and you are talking about the war, about tanks ... Go buy pampers with diapers)))

[glasha3032]

Nice man! grabbed about the birth! I have been a grandmother for a long time! PS You’re also an excavator, but you read about tanks here!

[northern]

climax is a terrible thing, noticeably.

[aleshka]

Grandma go to sleep! or pray Novodvorskaya!

Quote: glasha3032

Nice man! grabbed about the birth! I have been a grandmother for a long time! PS You’re also an excavator, but you read about tanks here!

[Denimax]

I wonder if there is the possibility of re-equipping Armata to an ordinary tower, if not inhabited does not justify itself? The crew is still seated in places.

[STOP VOINE 2014]

That's why they were afraid of Petra, well done, well-timed, appreciated, admitted (won) ...

[Astrahanec]

and the girl was substituted for the minuses

[glasha3032]

There are honest people who do not change the truth about epaulettes!

[Nevsky_ZU]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

In the quote book below vodolaz, your hysterical delight from the fact that before the serial tank stopped at the rehearsal in the hands of the tankman, you can read that month as if at the helm. In Western countries, tanks in parades are often generally transported by trailers and trailers.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Nevsky_ZU

in the hands of the tankman, who is at the helm for a month, you can read.

they write about this -

Alex Ivanov7 May 2015, 22: 58. I fully confirm the words of Alexei - I have the same information. What’s more interesting, Shoigu offered the crews from conscripts - whoever sang for him that Armata and the child can handle it can be guessed from the information — all these conscripts are children of generals and all high-ranking officials from the defense industry — the conscripts were promised that the service would last not a year but only the time spent on training and plus two months after the Parade (not to mention all the rewards for mastering new equipment), they scored a solid thug ... But after all, initially they recruited 40 people from Eantemirovka - all the contractors contracted and replaced the offspring E ... Gral

... as expected :(
In fact, this is a classic minister's position on the part of very good clever instigators from the retinue - now you can replace the vodyatlov horseradish, if not the minister himself at the next "flashy and ugly stalling before bright eyes" during a real passage. CHTD ...

And before that there were "the replacement of footcloths with socks", more recently "Vlasov liberal stars" ... the next "flight" will just be the last pendel, since you do not know how to see the consequences ...

It's a shame ... :(

[ty60]

Resource engine save.

[GSH-18]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

Dear, if you even write there in opposition to an article claiming to be sensational, then at least read these "news" before broadcasting them here!
One of the 10 Armata MBTs stopped at the rehearsal for the Victory Parade on Red Square yesterday. And the would-be scribblers immediately rushed to write loud headlines without waiting for the end of the parade! And the point was that the stop was planned according to the script. A tractor drove up to Armata, indicatively, but did not cling to anything, then left, Armata started up and left after the others on its own.

[perfect100]

So it is. Present yesterday at a rehearsal on Red Square.
The T-14 really got up, twitching a little while driving. But not stalled. The engine was running. The parade was not stopped, the columns of equipment neatly flowed around the standing car. Then an ARV drove up, hooked up. With two attempts they tried to move. It was useless, only the BREM tracks were turning. BREM is gone. Another mechanic sat down and the T-14 quietly left. The motor worked all the way. I suspect that the mechanic has confused something in the transmission control and she got into the "parking lot". Goonies. It happens))

[wanderer_032]

Quote: perfect100

I suspect that the mechanic has confused something in the transmission control and she got into the "parking lot". Goonies. It happens))

If so, then everything is clear.
Someone will get good lyuley from the authorities ...

[Igor75]

From all this it follows that the tank is difficult to control and will become scrap metal in the hands of conscripts. It is not known how many of their pieces are riveted, but the crews must be contract soldiers.

[pilot8878]

In order to become a good TRACTORIST on the collective farm, more than one year needs to be worked out, and MTZ-80 or DT-75 will be simpler.

[Rus2012]

Quote: Igor75

the tank is difficult to control

about complexity - no data.
But, dear little thing, therefore nafih odnadushnyh conscripts! No brooms allowed!
Only contact and basta!

[ty60]

The contractor trained on the T-72-old man? Yes, it is often harder to TRAIN at times than to learn from scratch. Acquired skills are more difficult to transform than they are acquired.

[dmi.pris1]

But I wonder how many conscripts now serve as mechanical drivers of serious equipment? For a year of urgent service, you won’t get the skills to manage sophisticated equipment. Previously, DOSAAF trained specialists for the army, and the service was longer. Seriously trained crews should be landed on the T-14.

Quote: Igor75

From all this it follows that the tank is difficult to control and will become scrap metal in the hands of conscripts. It is not known how many of their pieces are riveted, but the crews must be contract soldiers.

[goblin xnumx]

so decide-clung and polished with trucks, as mentioned above or did not cling? who says what ....

[igor67]

Quote: GSH-18

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

Dear, if you even write there in opposition to an article claiming to be sensational, then at least read these "news" before broadcasting them here!
One of the 10 Armata MBTs stopped at the rehearsal for the Victory Parade on Red Square yesterday. And the would-be scribblers immediately rushed to write loud headlines without waiting for the end of the parade! And the point was that the stop was planned according to the script. A tractor drove up to Armata, indicatively, but did not cling to anything, then left, Armata started up and left after the others on its own.

Actually, watch the video on the Internet, the tractor picked up but could not budge Armata, most likely the automatic gearbox, the APC also died out, most likely a problem with the engine

[Rus2012]

Quote: igor67

most likely a problem with the engine

as gritso - "it was not the reel, the dolt was sitting in the car!"
see comments above from representatives of uralvagon and competent ...

[igor67]

Quote: Rus2012

Quote: igor67

most likely a problem with the engine

as gritso - "it was not the reel, the dolt was sitting in the car!"
see comments above from representatives of uralvagon and competent ...

Alright with Armata, a new car, and here?

[AzBooks]

Quote: igor67

new car, and here?

The gates are old. The rams are new.

[boozer]

Well, what happens from this? Technique she is technique! People break down ... and you still want something else from technology ?!

[AzBooks]

Quote: GSH-18

One of the 10 Armata MBTs stopped at the rehearsal for the Victory Parade on Red Square yesterday.

One of the ten "Armata" MBTs stopped during the GENERAL rehearsal, i.e. during a rehearsal, at which EVERYTHING should be as it was at the premiere (parade).
Do you think that at the May 9 parade it is planned to bring up the tractor, nothing "clinging" and leaving Armata on its own?

[glasha3032]

.No need to trick! Yes, it was not the first time (even at Khoroshevka during the stall run). Well, there are flaws, people will understand! And this screwing in ... somehow it looks bad, because everyone understands everything ...

[Efremushka]

Do not know, do not write nonsense, for this and minus.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S93ebaJXtXU

[glasha3032]

I don’t know what? In all the media it was stated that during training on the Khodynskoye field the "Armata" stalled 2 times! What about the speech?

[igordok]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

I am sure from this Armata will definitely become invincible.

A book to help.

[lelikas]

Quote: igordok

A book to help.

Where can I download ???

[STALGRAD76]

Well yes, let's friends without fanaticism ....

[mag nit]

Colonel Conchita?

[wanderer_032]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

So what follows from this, that the new tank is dead?
Forces BREMki and mech.voda T-14, the malfunction was fixed on the spot and the car on its own left from Red Square. This indicates the high qualifications of our tankers.

And the second video is where the T-15 BMPT is being driven to the trawl, is it generally to what topic was posted?
Well, the mech.vod couldn’t call the trawl the first time, so what?
The car is new, not yet fully mastered and run-in.

What was not possible to promote?

[Knight Rider]

Quote: wanderer_032

And the second video is where the T-15 BMPT is being driven to the trawl, is it generally to what topic was posted?
Well, the mech.vod couldn’t call the trawl the first time, so what?
The car is new, not yet fully mastered and run-in.

I drove later, everything is in order! ..

[bender8282]

and ears will be torn off if something pokotsat him! I understand the guy ...

[ty60]

Two people control the actions of the driver, one on the trawl, the driver does not see him. The second one duplicates the instructions for the driver of the first one. The delay in time leads to incorrect results. Nothing supernatural. The usual work of an unstable crew

[Rusich is not from Kiev]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Deleted the commit. Bravo moderators. The right way to go comrades

Here people express their thoughts, but not stumble.

[Joker]

And you wanted everything for you at once, for the 2 of the year they rolled out a tank that does not break and everything in it works properly. I advise you to read how many tanks in other countries do and how much to a less acceptable level they upgrade it later. Any technique, even the most reliable, can stall and break. What you see at the parade is just a prototype, let's say for demonstrating that the project has not died out, but they are working on it and will soon finish it + all the same it's nice to see new equipment for 70 years, though the veterans will not be happy yet. Therefore it is not necessary to inflate an elephant out of a fly. It is necessary to rejoice that it is now stalled in the exercises, the problem will be found and eliminated, it would be worse if he had died in a battle like this, there is no time for corrections. Therefore, I never understood the wild screams and hooves when prototypes or equipment just arrived at the test in the army breaks. They are called trials in order to find flaws. No one ever said that samples of equipment that will begin to arrive in the troops will participate in the parade.

[glasha3032]

In other countries they didn’t make new tanks, they didn’t beat the drums for 2 years! And here, they didn’t do so, they rumbled for two years!

[Ruslan67]

Quote: glasha3032

they’ve not beaten the drums for 2 years!

But once they beat us in a tambourine! Glasha! Would you go to milk the sheep

[glasha3032]

Crawl and crawl! Never get you off your knees ...

[Mikhail m]

Come on smooth, try hard. You will reach the black marshal first.

[glasha3032]

And let's compete, who will receive faster than the marshal (each his own, I'm black!)

[Tersky]

Quote: Ruslan67

Glasha! Would you go to milk the sheep

Glash I wouldn’t even trust the sheep ... Happy Ruslan, !

[Setrac]

Quote: Tersky

Glash I wouldn’t even trust the sheep ... Happy Ruslan,

Then the sheep will bleat "Heil Ukrainian".

[igorka357]

F-35 ... how much has been said about him ..)) there they’re not beating a tambourine about him, there they hammer in his head that he himself will be the most ..)))

[stonks]

Comrades really go the right way.
Both the active protection of the tank and the crew’s armored capsule dramatically increase the survivability of the tank. While I have not read anywhere how the protection of the bottom against mines is made. And this is a very important factor.
In general, the designers of the latest tank models go in about the same direction.

In 2011, KAZ was tested in combat conditions in Israel. Successfully.
In 2014, KAZ worked 16 times in combat operations. Successfully.

So KAZ sharply increase the survivability of tanks.

[sergey261180]

Quote: stonks

In 2011, KAZ was tested in combat conditions in Israel. Successfully.
In 2014, KAZ worked 16 times in combat operations. Successfully.

This is if the KAZ is real and without jambs. On Armata, the rear sector is not covered at all. For the upper hemisphere, the maximum is "Cloud" type smoke grenades, which theoretically can disrupt the guidance of the seeker. They may not be ripped off. Again, some half-hearted solutions.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

Apparently moderators are worried about those people who dishonestly do their job. On Victory Day, in the parade all this equipment will be stake, it will be a shame before the veterans, so they must have been removed in vain, if unscrupulous people looked at their shame.

That's what the cons set, it’s not Alexander messed up this technique, if you keep silent then nothing will move for the better, I don’t know how to make the new tank’s performance characteristics, but I personally didn’t impress me somehow and it seems like quality problems, at least a parade skated beautifully.

[IGS]

The power did not get up, the product left on its own, after a partial replacement of the crew. Why rejoice? Bad technique? Then I’ll hint, rejoice at the under-training of the crew (from conscripts! ON NEW TECHNIQUE!)

I don’t know how the technical characteristics of the new tank are, but I didn’t personally seem to be impressed, and it seems like quality problems, at least the parade was beautifully skated.

Do you need it? Get inspired by the contours of a BMW or a bitten fisherman , It will be clearer to you.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: IGS

Power did not get up, the product went on its own

It's great that everything is in order with the power unit.

Quote: IGS

Why rejoice?

You are mistaken, I am not happy.

Quote: IGS

Bad technique?

How do you know that the technique is bad?

Quote: IGS

Then I’ll hint, rejoice at the under-training of the crew (from conscripts! ON NEW TECHNIQUE!)

Under-training of crew among conscripts on new equipment?
In the Union, upon receipt of new equipment, fighters were trained in training for three months, until exams were passed to the technology and were not allowed to enter.
Anyone who sits an untrained fighter to drive expensive equipment is either stupid or a wrecker.

Quote: IGS

Do you need it? Get inspired by the contours of a BMW or a bitten fisherman

You do not say what to do, but I will not say where to go.


The new equipment should not run like that in the video on youtube "Russian BMP Armata creaks, smokes and barely rides." If there really is a malfunction, stop the car, adjust the trailer, load it and take it for repair, why finish it off?

[IGS]

on youtube "Russian BMP Armata creaks, smokes and barely rides."

Why youtube? The censor is much more interesting to read here. impose to bring.
PS Those who created this machine do not give a damn about youtube and others. And you? If youtube is a measure of objectivity for you ... perhaps I won’t tell you where to go ... there are many who will show you the right direction.

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: IGS

It’s much more interesting to read on the censor and to impose it here.

Good censor know? Do you have experience in imposing and bringing?

Quote: IGS

Those who created this car do not give a damn about youtube and others.

youtube

The site presents both professionally made films and clips, as well as amateur videos, including video blogs. According to the Rossiyskaya Gazeta, 2% of the service’s audience, or 51 million people, are Russians.

It is possible that the creators of that machine make up a video hosting audience.
This is not a censor; it is not a Russophobic website.
In this case, the problem is not in youtube, the problem is in the operation of some instances of new equipment, maybe the new BMP, which creaks smokes and rides a little, and it is still mercilessly forced to move on, is the conscript also guilty?
Maybe the first of two eternal Russian troubles?

[Dryuya2]

Quote: saturn.mmm

On Victory Day, at the parade all this equipment will be stake, it will be a shame before veterans

http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2015/05/blog-post_53.html
Tank "Armata": there are no problems with equipment!
The stop of the Armata tank on Red Square caused a stormy reaction from the public. Immediately there were many detractors who were ready to pour mud on new Russian developments. Meanwhile, this case is rather psychological, from the category of what is called the “general effect”, and has nothing to do with technology, unless it forces designers to improve the “protection against the fool”.
Uralvagonzavod, having shipped the tanks of the Moscow Region, and having conducted short-term training of the crews, suggested not to use conscripts as driver mechanics. He suggested replacing them with experienced factory test drivers. The latter not only know their machines perfectly, but also, being testers, are psychologically prepared to overcome all kinds of emergency situations. The reason for what happened today was not the soldier’s ability to overcome psychological stress and cope with panic.
Very little time was devoted to preparing to operate such a new and complex machine. Despite the fact that a lot of things in “Armata” are automated, and thus simplified, as it were, getting used to and developing skills is still required. With driving in columns - even more so. Because the car has excess power density, giving it crazy dynamics. Slightly gazanul ... and rushed forward, slowed down - pecked his nose - behind. Actually, this happened - a small change of gas - the tank rushed forward, then a sharp brake - it got up and died out. Moreover, in one of the videos, it is noticeable that the same jerk was not that of the tank coming in front, not that of those nearby (see below at 10:49)

To stand in the middle of Red Square, in front of the Minister and many television cameras ... but how would you feel if you were in the place of this driver? The guy panicked, began to clutch and put pressure on everything that could be reached - headlights, wipers, air conditioning ... As a result, he himself did not notice how he put the tank on the mountain brake. That is precisely why “Armata”, an approaching “tow truck” - BREM-1, could not pull off. The video clearly shows how the latter polishes paving stones with his trucks, and the T-14 at the same time stood up and stands like a stake (see below at 0:17).

[Dryuya2]

from there
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2015/05/blog-post_53.html
The specialists of Uralvagonzavod could not instantly be at the tank that had stopped, but when they arrived, they very quickly understood what was the matter. I got a "cap" and drove, and the one who so unsuccessfully gave the command to drag the tank in tow - because at the same time they could screw up the transmission! "Uvezovtsy" without any problems removed the tank from the brake and started it. Everything is exactly as the deputy general director of the corporation Alexei Zharich described in social networks shortly after the incident. The only thing that took some time to figure out what was turned on / off there and bring the electronics of the tank control system to its original state.
It is thought that this significant case will force the military to be more attentive to the recommendations of the industry, and the organizers of the parades will be forced to change the rules for their implementation. In particular, it is necessary to reduce the number of trainings "in public", i.e. in the city - these rehearsals erode and undermine the whole meaning of the celebration. I think that it is quite possible to get by with just one dress rehearsal, and then at night. The rest is held away from prying eyes by onlookers and the press in Alabino. When it comes to events of this magnitude, the people do not need to know the whole background. After all, what turns out is like a usual technical patch during training, and what a tremendous reputation damage it did to both the Corporation and the Armed Forces, and to the State itself. As they say, "spoons were found, but the sediment remained!"

[Dryuya2]

who are interested in a lot of photos and discussion of Almaty
http://glav.su/forum/5-military/157/offset/30740/

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Dryuya2

As they say, "spoons were found, but the sediment remained!"

The fact that the tank stopped then everything happens. I was upset by the third video on the links, about the BMP which creaks smoke and rides poorly.
In Armata, everything seems to be fine, but some details are honestly not very good, for example, niches in the tower.

[glasha3032]

About rehearsals - you are 100% right. About the tank - if there are such difficulties in control - will simple mechanic drivers master such complex equipment, if the factory ones (someone put forward a version) cannot provide normal driving?

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: Dryuya2

That is precisely why “Armata”, an approaching “tow truck” - BREM-1, could not pull off. The video clearly shows how the latter polishes paving stones with his trucks, and the T-14 at the same time stood up and stands like a stake (see below at 0:17).

It's good that at least four generals were able to solve the problem. And then they could have torn either Armata or ARV-1, and this happens.

[glasha3032]

But how can you not put the minuses. You are sowing doubts about the quality of our equipment! If only the vest on the chest was torn and shouted that "Armata" is our ALL !!! - already would be a Faldmarshal! Our people do not like criticism! Give us a MIRACLE-WEAPON!

[lewerlin53rus]

Attention! There was a similarity between Armata and Svidomo - and there and there an uninhabited tower!

[Su24]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Removed koment. Bravo moderators. The right way to go comrades. I am sure from this Armata will definitely become invincible.

I agree, why removed? Do visitors save morals?
Resource from this will definitely not become smarter.

[rJIiOK]

We are also sure that your comment would definitely solve all the problems of Almaty

[virung]

How do you know? Just to squeeze or on a salary?

[Aleksandr72]

Diluted here srach "Armata stalled! Horror !!!"
French tanks "Leclerc" and a few years after being put into service periodically stalled due to electronics failures. In order for these tanks to take part in parades on them (at least in Saudi Arabia), they turned off all the electronics, except for the one that is necessary for the tank to move across the area at the same speed. These problems have now been resolved. There is such a thing as "childhood diseases" that are characteristic of any new technology, especially as complex as modern tanks.
Especially for you - those wishing to moan the new "Armata":
"Military expert Viktor Murakhovsky in an exclusive interview for the Zvezda TV channel told about the equipment of the Armata tank, how it is protected and how it is controlled."
[media = http: //tvzvezda.ru/news/forces/content/201505090735-khct.htm#]

[phases]

I would very much like to hope that the tank will not only be "solid", nimble and stuffed with ultra-modern electronics, but will also be supplied in quantities greater than 10 units / year.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: FAZE

I would very much like to hope that the tank will not only be "solid", nimble and stuffed with ultra-modern electronics, but will also be supplied in quantities greater than 10 units / year.

But the active protection system was being developed back in the 80s, the first model was called "thrush". Why was it not installed on the T-90?

[Dormidont2]

the spotlights from the Curtain are not visible on t14, although it’s not long

[saturn.mmm]

Quote: FAZE

I would very much like to hope that the tank will not only be "solid", nimble and stuffed with ultra-modern electronics, but will also be supplied in quantities greater than 10 units / year.

In the USSR, UVZ produced more than 900 T-72 tanks per year.

[novobranets]

Quote: FAZE

will be delivered in quantities greater than 10 pcs / year

If a flabby hole will not interfere.

Earlier it was reported that Alfa Bank was trying to recover through the court from Uralvagonzavod and related companies more than 6 billion rubles and about $ 40 million.

... In turn, the deputy general director of the enterprise, Alexey Zharich, called the position of Alfa Bank unconstructive. According to him, the delay has been repaid at the moment, but the bank immediately presented the full amount for repayment, and now it is trying to bankrupt the corporation.

Read more on NTV.Ru: http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1405218/?fb#ixzz3ZZAZn7Xp

[Wheel]

Quote: novobranets

If a flabby hole will not interfere.

"Alfa-Bank notifies of its intention to apply to the arbitration court with a statement to declare UVZ insolvent (bankrupt)", - said in the message of "Alfa-Bank", published in the relevant section of "Kommersant". We will remind that earlier the media wrote that Alfa-Bank filed a claim for bankruptcy of UVZ's daughter ChTZ-Uraltrak, which is part of the corporation.

"This action of Alfa-Bank is connected with the admitted delay on the loan of ChTZ-Uraltrak LLC, which is currently repaid. Nevertheless, the bank immediately presented the entire amount to be repaid, and is now trying to bankrupt the entire corporation," Politonline officially announced. ru at Uralvagonzavod.

[Mark Alekseevich]

Quote: Petr1

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Oh well

Do not believe me?

Forgive me the moderator ...

MOSCOW, May 8 - RIA Novosti. The Presnensky court of Moscow on Friday appointed five years of real imprisonment to a key person involved in the corruption case in the Russian Defense Ministry, Evgenia Vasilyeva, a RIA Novosti correspondent reports from the courtroom.

Currently, the former head of the property relations department has been detained in the courtroom.

The accused herself clearly did not expect such a sentence, she even staggered after the court announced the term and decided to take her into custody.

[Umka1367]

But they counted house arrest! Here!

[AUL]

Wait a second, they’ll pass the sentence on appeal, but taking into account the exhausting home, and according to parole, in a couple of months it will be free with a clear conscience!
Another spit in the face of his people ...

[novobranets]

Quote: Mark Alekseevich

The Presnensky court of Moscow on Friday appointed five years of real imprisonment to the key defendant in the case of corruption in the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Evgenia Vasilyeva

I do not share the enthusiasm for the trial of this amoeba. This verdict is a spit towards the people. If only people were not outraged, after all, they "imprisoned". Five years for a crime against the state, at least that's ridiculous.

[glasha3032]

We do not believe. Against "Jewelin" only two launchers of 12 shells! By the way, is there a bulldozer blade? Is it somehow not shown in the pictures?

[Dinko]

What are you to say we don’t believe?

[glasha3032]

Yes, I, unlike you .in the SRI BT work in Kubinka as a cleaner! Where are you? lie on the couch or another pre-conscript?

[glasha3032]

Those who put minuses - counted more shells against "Jewelins"? If not, then why are you minus? It's bad with arithmetic - so it was not necessary to pick up bulls in the toilet at school, but to go to mathematics! Archimedes, damn it ...

[Fedman]

Of course, I am also very glad that we are developing such a cool technique, but I do not understand such wild enthusiasm.
All that is now available is a few "wunderwafels", which are clearly not yet completed and not really tested (correct me if I'm wrong, but the wiring should not stick out of the tank turret). No one really saw how it drives and shoots, and I would not trust 100% what the media say. To listen to them, in general, all our equipment is a miracle weapon and has no analogues in the world.
PS I really hope that this project will be brought to its logical conclusion, I just don’t understand why to boast about the unfinished work

[Falcon]

on "Armata" KAZ is capable of intercepting not only high-speed anti-tank missiles, but also armor-piercing sub-caliber shells, ”writes Romanov

Since when does KAZ act on sub-caliber shells? Their speed, mass and the absence of an explosive part makes it impossible to defeat KAZ. And the KAZ reaction time is much less than the speed of a sub-caliber projectile.
Or are there specialists who can explain their effect?

Where in general at the KAZ armature, someone found in the photo, I just can not figure it out?

[vodolaz]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Oh well

Armata stalled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHfqsC-yPxI

BMP Armata is trying to get in tow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kEY_kOT8nA

And when will you die and stop sleeping in different topics? What is so terrible that stalled is not yet a serial tank?

[vodolaz]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Shit in the toilet. And I express my opinion.

Aha, and what part of this is the "Rook" boat? I suggested there: we create a topic and discuss, not crap on the site.

[bort4145]

About rehearsal something like this

[BOB044]

A man walks and falls dead. And you want the technology to not fail. Everything happens.

[glasha3032]

Have you seen a lot of stalled T - 30, 72 at the Moscow parade in the past 80 years?

[Dry_T-50]

Quote: bort4145

About rehearsal something like this

And Malysheva here what side?

[Motherland Russia]

I agree with you.

Any technique is brought up and "Armata" will show itself in all its glory.
Our weapons are developing, and that's great. And this should be enjoyed by any Russian person.
It's not a mistake that he does not do anything.

But crap and rubbing hands to temporary setbacks can only scum ...

[Rider]

Maybe the driver was worried, he did something wrong. The clip is trimmed, what happened next.

[Friday]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Oh well

Armata stalled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHfqsC-yPxI

in Ukraine, for this reason, a holiday was appointed ?

[Ingvar 72]

Left on its own. Stalled due to inexperience of the driver, do not judge strictly. The first pancake is always lumpy, let's look further.

[glasha3032]

Inexperience times. Inexperience two. Inexperience three ... Not too much in a month?

[Pino4et]

And what? Critics of Almaty and Armata are united by one thing - an uninhabited tower.

[vodolaz]

Quote: Pino4et

And what? Critics of Almaty and Armata are united by one thing - an uninhabited tower.

Amused, catch a plus))))))))))))))

[_my opinion]

Quote: Pino4et

And what? Critics of Almaty and Armata are united by one thing - an uninhabited tower.

according to some reports, Armata was specially stopped to demonstrate the possibility of evacuating armored vehicles (the announcer-commentator spoke about this at that rehearsal of the parade). This is also supported by the fact that the "stalled" tank started on its own and left ...

[GSH-18]

Quote: _my opinion

according to some reports, Armata was specifically stopped to demonstrate the possibility of evacuating armored vehicles (the announcer-commentator spoke about this at that rehearsal of the parade)

Well yes! And so it was. It's just that some "friends" of Russia always really want to pass off wishful thinking and sarcastically and shit on little things.

[Setrac]

Quote: _my opinion

according to some reports, Armata was specifically stopped

This is such a subtle trolling. The Supreme Commander-in-Chief trolled sworn friends, and of the yellow-black decl.

[Corsair]

Quote: Pino4et

And what? Critics of Almaty and Armata are united by one thing - an uninhabited tower.

Judging by the gif - Junker fell from a fume of Potroshenkovsky, in aakurat after passing it, Petro does not bite to see.

[Executer]

Hehe. Romanian Moldovan replied ...

[ℳy ℒiƒℯ]

Romanian Moldovan replied ...

Not to the Moldavian, but to the Transnistrian.

[boris-1230]

ℳy ℒiƒℯ

... tell father so that he can protect himself from now on ...

[Linkor9s21]

In just a short 5 years, they created this tank, that you wanted it to be perfect, a year or two, and all the problems will be fixed.
And NATO will seem to forever ride on the same equipment.

[GSH-18]

Quote: Linkor9s21

And NATO will seem to forever ride on the same equipment.

They have, in principle, not a bad "Leopard-2", as always the Germans are at the head of the European military technological progress!
And the rest, like Abrams, Merkava, etc. or technologically not new, too heavy, or have small-town sharpening. They have yet to develop a true universal modern MBT. Amen!

[Foxmara]

so they have all the old stuff deeply modernized. Maximum 90th years the beginning of release.

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: Foxmara

so they have all the old stuff deeply modernized. Maximum 90th years the beginning of release.

Their Leopard had 17 modifications. And the Leopard 1 (1980) is not at all like the Leopard 2A7 +. This is about how to compare our T-54 and Armata (T-14). Well, since it all started with the T-34, we can say that Armata is a deep modernization of the old T-34. This is one line, by design, of tanks.

[Setrac]

Quote: Алексей_К

Their Leopard had 17 modifications. And Leopard 1 (1980) is not at all like Leopard 2A7 +

No one talks about Leopard 1 (1965), it is about Leopard 2 (1979), which is undoubtedly technically perfect, but remains a third-generation tank.

Quote: Алексей_К

Well, and since it all started with the T-34, we can say that Armata is a deep modernization of the old T-34.

And here you did not guess, they are similar only in that they are tanks.

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: GSH-18

They have, in principle, not a bad "Leopard-2", as always the Germans are at the head of the European military technological progress!
And the rest, like Abrams, Merkava, etc. or technologically not new, too heavy, or have small-town sharpening. They have yet to develop a true universal modern MBT. Amen!

The latest Leopard 2A7 + modification has a weight of 70 tons. Yes, this is a monster that can not move on Russian fields, roads, bridges and dirt. It’s even useless to talk about crossing rivers, they will remain at the bottom. I’m not sure that their sapper parts are provided with pontoon bridges corresponding to this weight. Those. crossing rivers in one tank to the entire pontoon bridge. Wow progress! Even III Reich refused from such progress at one time!
By the way, Merkava Mk.4 has a weight of 65 tons. This tank was designed specifically for war on hard ground with the Arabs, and not for Russian fields and dirt.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Linkor9s21

In just a short 5 years they created this tank

Now I looked at the pictures and it seems to me that on the case it’s not armor but iron sheets, even a gap is visible, so the box was just welded to the parade

[gjv]

Michael, try to re-read Tank T-14 "Armata" became the star of the Western media
http://topwar.ru/74466-tank-t-14-armata-stal-zvezdoy-zapadnyh-smi.html#comment-i
d-4478081
When it seems ...

[Corsair]

Are you a tank builder too? Above there are sheets with bullet and ballistic protection, covering in places DZ, in some places the sensors that the tank is stuffed with. They also had to be closed with armor in your opinion? Do you want to see a cast iron blank without joints, crevices and any panels?

[glasha3032]

There is a shooting of "Armata", but you most likely saw them, on Tverskaya, where there are TWO! "Armat" the stern of the tower, where the APU is REMEMBERED and REFINED! This is not even bulletproof armor, but a sheet of ordinary roofing sheet and nothing more! The armor is thin and our tanks are fast ...

[STALGRAD76]

Visit the forum dedicated to Armata section on the "Courage" website there everything is painted on this topic and with examples from the merkava and the leopard .....

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Linkor9s21

In just a short 5 years, they created this tank, that you wanted it to be perfect, a year or two, and all the problems will be fixed.
And NATO will seem to forever ride on the same equipment.

Interestingly, Russia is inferior to the United States in terms of the number of air forces and the Navy, and as regards the number of ground forces, for some reason no one wrote a single article on the site (there were dozens of articles about comparing the Air Force and the Navy) it would be interesting to read about the number of tanks and self-propelled howitzers, air defense systems, etc., etc.

[Penzyac]

Quote: Lt. Air Force stock

Quote: Linkor9s21

In just a short 5 years, they created this tank, that you wanted it to be perfect, a year or two, and all the problems will be fixed.
And NATO will seem to forever ride on the same equipment.

Interestingly, Russia is inferior to the United States in terms of the number of air forces and the Navy, and as regards the number of ground forces, for some reason no one wrote a single article on the site (there were dozens of articles about comparing the Air Force and the Navy) it would be interesting to read about the number of tanks and self-propelled howitzers, air defense systems, etc., etc.

And what's the use of comparing numbers? For example, Ukraine and the Air Force and ground forces are many times more than New Russia, so what's the point? ... The numbers themselves do not fight! ...

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

for some reason nobody wrote a single article on the site (there were dozens of articles about comparing the Air Force and the Navy) it would be interesting to read about the number of tanks, self-propelled howitzers, air defense systems, etc. etc.

http://topwar.ru/26035-sravnenie-vooruz.html

[glasha3032]

It is necessary to read about the number of NATO and Russian troops not on this site, but somewhere else. Sometimes very interesting analytical articles are published on Regnum.

[zennon]

Quote: Linkor9s21

a year or two, and fix all problems.

If only this did not work out:

[glasha3032]

Horror! The rocket fired already 10 meters from the target, but what an effect!

[Victor-M]

Quote: glasha3032

Horror! The rocket fired already 10 meters from the target, but what an effect!

What? It is not clear what forward detonated, either a rocket or explosives embedded in a tank for a video effect.

[Dinko]

Dear friend, watch less NATO NATO commercials for firing from the anti-tank missile system on T-72 tanks that are not mobile and filled with explosives.

[glasha3032]

Ege! Stop! Pturs worked at a decent height, contactless and THIS is no longer good! Active defense did not work and it evokes bad thoughts ...

[boris-1230]

These targets lack active defense, but are filled with explosives! This is a production video!

[glasha3032]

I had a smoke and decided to agree with you. There is no direct impact - why should the tank explode? But the shooting is certainly spectacular!

[REZMovec]

glasha3032 (1) RU Yesterday, 04:20 ↑
Ege! Stop! Pturs worked at a decent height, contactless and THIS is no longer good! Active defense did not work and it evokes bad thoughts ...


Well, to "crumple" horseradish with eggs in black ... the monkey's oop Psaki has already learned, she even went on maternity leave))) But I didn't hear anything about active protection, but it doesn't matter, the main thing is to SPOT louder ...

[glasha3032]

When they correct it, then we also ask for favors for the parade!

[ivankursk46]

The specialists of Uralvagonzavod could not instantly be at the tank that had stopped, but when they arrived, they very quickly understood what was the matter. I got a "cap" and drove, and the one who so unsuccessfully gave the command to drag the tank in tow - because at the same time they could screw up the transmission! "Uvezovtsy" without any problems removed the tank from the brake and started it. Everything is exactly as the deputy general director of the corporation Alexei Zharich described in social networks shortly after the incident. The only thing that took some time to figure out what was turned on / off there and bring the electronics of the tank control system to its original state.

http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2015/05/blog-post_53.html

[UzRus]

tank control electronics - Is there a BIUS or something?

[ATATA]

Quote: ℳy ℒiƒℯ

Oh well

Armata stalled

A typical example of a pseudo-patriot on a site.
Only marshals do not scorch so stupidly.
Ak Colonel they do not mind.
And this is the fault of the modernists and all those who like "hurray" to the patriots.
Soon the site changes will take over.

[Makarov]

it happens ... for this rehearsal and conduct, so that everything will be smooth later ...

[theadenter]

Rehearsal is needed to practice the parade: keeping the system, speed, crew behavior. But not for training in tank control - these are the basic fundamentals that are expected before allowing the crew to the parade.

[Makarov]

If a driver who studied and drove all his life to Moskvich 412th was transplanted into a modern supercar, it is not a fact that he will drive him ... moreover, not a fact that he will open it. so here .. is there anyone who studied what?

[theadenter]

That is, you approve that on PARADE was an untrained crew? Is it normal for you to learn to drive a tank in rehearsal?

Correct if I misunderstood.

[Makarov]

It’s like you live in another country ... it’s not normal, but it’s real and there’s nothing wrong with that) This is a strong Russian army - if you learn to drive a tank at a parade, what can you expect from these soldiers in battle ?!)) )))

[vit8180]

It’s hard to learn - easy in battle ....

[Stirlitz]

Just to blather, but no matter what

[Ross_ulair]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Oh well

Armata stalled
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHfqsC-yPxI

Armata BMP tries to get in tow
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kEY_kOT8nA

BMP Armata creaks, smokes, barely rides.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcSnTvuUh2k

PS From your minuses the tank will not get better

The meaning of such a comment? Fart in a puddle?
The tank is practically not run-in, there is no complete information about the features of the operation of both the machine itself and the components and mechanisms of the tank.
IMHO put on a parade in the light of the current political situation in the world (well, military too). Show the external (and internal) enemies of Kuzkin’s mother. I think not even after 5 years - in a year the car will be different, albeit not externally. Children’s sores always crawl out on new cars, be it a tank, plane, or a simple passenger car (the Germans brought their B6 Passat to mind only three years later). And here it’s not a model in the line of cars, which in 5-7 years will change on the conveyor - a full-fledged combat platform, developed with an eye on at least several decades in advance

[Sid.74]

The adoption of the Armata T-14 tanks will lead to the fact that NATO's existing arsenal of anti-tank missiles will remain an effective weapon only against outdated tank models. Yes, and they can well be equipped with a protective complex of the type of "Armatovsky", said expert Lev Romanov. He writes about this in his article for the Messenger of Mordovia.

A strange conclusion: KAZ at Almaty in the upper part of the tower is mounted, it is necessary to put the whole tower on other equipment!
The photo is clickable.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

View from the starboard side of the tank. Color marked:
1 - hatch of the tank commander, pay attention to the design of the armor
2 - active protection system "Afganit", bottom tubes of charges, above its radar
3 - elements of the active protection system of the upper hemisphere of the tank, on the roof - radiating antennas, below the square panels - receiving antennas, as well as a block of charges
4 - panoramic sight, combined with a machine gun
5 - review cameras
6 - feed niche.
Photo with a description from the site: http://army-news.ru/

[Lt. Air Force stock]

The tower on the right is larger. Color marked:
1 - review cameras
2 - receiving antenna of the active protection complex of the upper hemisphere
3 - radar of the active protection system "Afganit"
4 - charge block complex active protection of the upper hemisphere
5 - block of charges of the active protection complex "Afganit"
6 - rifle gap, from which the striking element KAZ "Afganit" flies out. The black cover is able to rotate 360 ​​degrees, directing the element in the right direction. Each tube contains several tens of charges.

[dustycat]

I already apologize wildly, but ...
The circuit you are referring to resembles a PC circuit in the toilet.

Because.
item 2 is more correctly called AFAR - an active phased antenna array of KAZ.
Item 3 is more similar to optical sensors for detecting optical guidance systems for anti-tank weapons, and there are both - an all-angle sensor (it is on top) and a wide-angle horizontal view (it is a narrow vertical slit from below - due to the simplification of work, it is faster and serves to guide an all-angle sensor that is already is able to give a picture of finding the sighting optical device already in the image on the ground). An example can be found in the description of the tank "Oplot" - why not on "strongholds"? So Crimea is ours. And the optomechanical factory that made them was exactly there. Although badly bankrupt.
Clause 4 is a mortar block of smoke masking charges of the Stor type (already the next generation :)).
item 5. Mortars KAZ. A maximum of three charges each (and not a few dozen as they are fantastically small-sized and flying out through the devil those looking at a rotating slot, but also capable of knocking uranium scrap off the trajectory :) yeah, right).
Although to place three charges in series in one tube, engineering talent is also needed. Neither Germans nor Japanese nor Israelis mastered.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: dustycat

I already apologize wildly, but ...
The circuit you are referring to resembles a PC circuit in the toilet.

All claims to the author of the article, I just copied the part with photos and a description of the devices.
http://army-news.ru/2015/05/chto-predstavlyaet-iz-sebya-tank-t-14-armata/

[sania1304]

Over the 6th number, he neighing heartily) Did you come up with this yourself? For the dull-witted - you wrote complete nonsense! And calling the weather station "an element of an active protection complex" is somehow not polite ...

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: sania1304

Over the 6th number, he neighing heartily) Did you come up with this yourself? For the dull-witted - you wrote complete nonsense! And calling the weather station "an element of an active protection complex" is somehow not polite ...

Once again I repeat for the gifted, I copied part of the article from here:
http://army-news.ru/2015/05/chto-predstavlyaet-iz-sebya-tank-t-14-armata/

[Lt. Air Force stock]

View from above. Color marked:
1 - external fuel tanks (do not be confused by their insecurity, these are camping tanks, the main ones are most likely hidden inside under armor)
2 - machine gun turret combined with the panoramic sight of the commander
3 - service hatch
5 - charge blocks of the active protection complex of the upper hemisphere
6 - the niche of the gunner’s sight or hatch for ejecting spent cartridges from the tower, until it’s clear
7 - removable composite armor blocks on supports set aside from the body
8 - exemplary angles of monitoring the radar system "Afganit".

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Front view. Color marked:
1 - the niche of the gunner’s sight or hatch for ejecting spent cartridges from the tower, until it’s clear
2 - a mysterious niche under add. a turret gun or a real ejection hatch.

[kamikaze]

even though you study the T-14, you need to hire a ride on the ground to sit in this tank and feel its engine power, its speed and patency. to shoot. then you can criticize to discuss. by killing the bear, we are trying to share his skin

[family tree]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

2 - a mysterious niche under add. a turret gun or a real ejection hatch.

The turret means more free space, and not the bunker embrasure, place it on top of the tower, count the circular shelling, at the expense of the ejection sleeve, this unreal hatch, in this place, in the frontal armor, we don’t make any hatches, they burned for 34 , with the driver’s hatch, the more so, the tower is uninhabited, not critical and without the release of pallets. One of the KAZ sensors, protected from accidental fragmentation and bullet damage and acting during frontal shelling of the tower, something related to the thermal imager and sight, or all together?

[ATATA]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

1 - the niche of the gunner’s sight or hatch for ejecting spent cartridges from the tower, until it’s clear

Sleeve ejection hatch in this place?
Are you friends with brains?

[Sling]

And they are thrown from an uninhabited tower into an armored crew capsule, or on a head popping out)

[gjv]

[quote = Lt. Air Force Reserve] Front view. Color marked:
quote]
1 - the niche of the gunner’s sight is clear
2 - "enigmatic"liner ejection hatch.

[gjv]

[quote = Lt. Air Force Reserve] Front view. Color marked:
quote]
1 - the niche of the gunner’s sight is clear
2 - "enigmatic"liner ejection hatch.

[Dormidont2]

at the stern of the t80-90 tower, you can install the t14 cas

[Sid.74]

Quote: Dormidont2

at the stern of the t80-90 tower, you can install the t14 cas

And hundreds of meters of wiring, and sensors and sensors, where to put all this into an inhabited tower?

[dustycat]

Hmm ..
About hundreds of meters of wiring and sensors smiled.
Where in the modern monolithic eighteen-story building I put 10 km of pipes I know.
Where to install the sensors on the tower (the radar unit and the primary analyzer of the received signal with four antennas of the PHAR type - the same cube on the roof) is understandable - there is a T90 with the same decoration on the tower. There is also an earlier version with a hex block.
Where to put the mortars of active protection - there is a variant of the T90 tower with them.
Where to stick hundreds of meters ??? A maximum of a hundred two-core to knockout mortar charge.
I do not think that a similar hitch on the Kurgan has drastically reduced the habitable volume.
Unless to make a radar calculator on lamps 6ZH3P and 6S45P. :)

[family tree]

Quote: Sid.74

And hundreds of meters of wiring, and sensors and sensors, where to put all this into an inhabited tower? what

Eugene, the sensors were outside, and hundreds of meters of wiring, shoved quietly, take a word from the old electrician, wires, such a thing, can be molded along any path, the speed of the electrons, this does not affect, it would have a normal cross section and reliable insulation Yes, there’s not even hundreds of meters, most likely.

[lelikas]

That inspired from the old -
If the tank in the parade stalled, do I need to put an emergency sign ???
Well, the new one -
At the parade, the tank stalled, everyone agreed: "Obama is a sucker!"

They’ll finish everything, don’t worry, it will fly like a T-90.

[NEXUS]

Quote: lelikas

will fly like a T-90.

like t-xnumx

[Serg 122]

The media have already called "Armata" a kind of "Bulava". In my opinion - a very unfortunate comparison, because "Bulava" did not fly very badly and was already put into service. And “Armata”, I am sure, will be fine!

[lelikas]

Quote: NEXUS

like a t-50 wink

If it’s cool as an airplane, but if it’s like a tank from the world of tanks, they will nerf;))))))))))))))

[NEXUS]

Quote: lelikas

If it’s cool as an airplane, but if it’s like a tank from the world of tanks, they will nerf;))))))))))))))

But what do you think? of course like PAK FA

[lom]

60_ton_ armata will be hard to get stuck in the mud

[toad]

Jam in the mud depends on the pressure on the ground and the pressure on the ground depends on the area adjacent to the surface of the tracks. But in general, weapons are checked by war, so disputes are stormy delights, and bitter tears are meaningless so far.

[the polar]

Quote: Toad

But in general, weapons are checked by war, so disputes are stormy delights, and bitter tears are meaningless so far.

Yes, I agree that so far the debate is about nothing. And the title of the article is kind of childish. When they fire at the entire NATO range of ammunition, then it will be possible to talk about something. Although, of course, at field tests, "strength testing" in some volumes should have been done, but no one announced the reports.

[K-50]

Quote: Polar

That's when they fire at the whole NATO nomenclature of ammunition, then it will be possible to talk about something

So probably they were already firing, since it came to production .. Tank models were firing at once, even at the design stage, so that it was possible to make changes quickly.

[STOP VOINE 2014]

Armata is easier than .... and .... which means it will be faster and in the mud at home!

[Casper]

It seems that they write Armat easier than Abrams and Leopard, but the engine is the same in power! Should not get stuck. After all the tests, there will still be changes. Maybe the appearance will even change.

[kotdavin4i]

Quote: lom

60_ton_ armata will be hard to get stuck in the mud

And nothing that "Abrams" - 63 tons, and leopard - 68, and somehow they run ...

[s1н7т]

Quote: kotdavin4i

Quote: lom

60_ton_ armata will be hard to get stuck in the mud

And nothing that "Abrams" - 63 tons, and leopard - 68, and somehow they run ...

And how long have we been looking at someone in tank building? They let them weigh 100 tons there, we make tanks taking into account our own needs. But, for my taste, 60 tons is a bit much. In our remote places I haven’t seen such bridges - everywhere is a limitation. So we will fight with the OPVT?

[kil 31]

Totally agree with you. Let the hostilities have changed, but we still have the guest tanks in the Defense Ministry about bridges and railway platforms. According to the press, it weighs 50 with a penny in full mincemeat. Who does not like can throw scales under the caterpillar at the parade or run up to the steelyard to weigh

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: c1n7

But, for my taste, 60 tons is a bit much. In our remote places I haven’t seen such bridges - everywhere is a limitation. So we will fight with the OPVT?

Armata tank will have a weight of not more than 50 tons, it is less than that of modern Russian tanks.
And about bridges - not a single commander will lead a column of tanks across the bridge. From the bridge, even if the weight allows, there will be nothing left. All troops will be stopped. Therefore, pontoon bridges are made for tanks, they organize crossings along the bottom (up to 5 meters).
When our (lighter T-55 tanks) entered Hungary and Czechoslovakia, they destroyed the entire transport system in these countries.

[family tree]

Quote: Алексей_К

about bridges - not a single commander will lead a column of tanks across the bridge. From the bridge, even if the weight allows, there will be nothing left. All troops will be stopped.

That is, in my engineer-engineer confusion, the basics of the correct laying of column tracks and the construction of wooden low-water bridges on frame and pile supports, with a lifting capacity, exactly 60? But TMM, it’s purely for small cars, tons up to 15, and no commander of tanks will lead the bridge, oh, all the shit

[Aleksey_K]

Quote: perepilka

Quote: Алексей_К

about bridges - not a single commander will lead a column of tanks across the bridge. From the bridge, even if the weight allows, there will be nothing left. All troops will be stopped.

That is, in my engineer-engineer confusion, the basics of the correct laying of column tracks and the construction of wooden low-water bridges on frame and pile supports, with a lifting capacity, exactly 60? But TMM, it’s purely for small cars, tons up to 15, and no commander of tanks will lead the bridge, oh, all the shit

And I, as a commander who was trusted by a tank company, was hammered all my life: If you do not want to be shot for destroying the bridge and disrupting the timing of the offensive, then look for a workaround, i.e. look for ford. And those temporary bridges made by sappers are not the reinforced concrete bridges of civil engineering. They can no longer be restored in a short time. Where can you find logs of such length and strength for the restoration of modern reinforced concrete bridges? You must understand that a dozen tanks will enter the bridge at the same time and this will be 600 tons. Not a single bridge can withstand this load. Vibrations from tanks are just like during an earthquake. Even on modern bridges, soldiers are still forbidden to keep up, and if the vibrations from the tanks coincide? On modern bridges, even trams do not stop during traffic jams, they simply don’t enter, and when they pass over the bridge they slow down. In general, do not confuse engineer bridges for crossing troops and civil engineering bridges. Minesweeper bridges are easily restored and laid directly under enemy fire.

[family tree]

Quote: Алексей_К

Minesweeper bridges are easily restored and laid directly under enemy fire.

Thank you, I understood and realized everything, and the science fiction writers invented Operation Bagration
http://pobeda.elar.ru/issues/operatsiya-bagration-chast-ii-osvobozhdenie-minska/
sapery-avangard-ataki /

[manguest]

And where is he in the geyrop that he will find dirt, tea is not a pig.

[Sura]

At the back of the photo you can clearly see what the width of the tracks, tread pattern and clearance are. The design bureau does not exist yesterday, they think what they are doing and they know in which country they live — I'm talking about the roads surrounding the landscape and generally winter and summer.

[toad]

Why did you put a guy down? Well, people don’t know that the tank presses on the ground less than a passenger car has not yet collided with armored vehicles.

[tuliak]

Tanks are not afraid of dirt !!! Especially Russian! This is not some American husk there that is even afraid of sand !!!

[Bepduct]

Actually 48 tons, where did another 12 come from?

[gjv]

Quote: lom

60_ton_ armata will be hard to get stuck in the mud

lomWithout knowing the ford, do not pop into the water. And the depth of mud check with a crowbar.
Our tanks are not afraid of dirt! Such a tradition!

[Yellow white]

Enough of gloating, the T-34s also broke, but they drove the Nazis to the grave!

[Sashka]

Not an esthete, nor an expert ... But something to me so far he is not particularly pleasing to the eye. Some kind of western or something. Not like Russian. Well, at least zaminusuyte! Maybe not used yet. The T-90 is beautiful, lean, flattened ... And this one ... I don’t like the MI-28 either, because it’s some kind of western one, the KA-52 is different. I’m not talking about performance characteristics, maybe of course they are on top! But Russian weapons always took even one of their kind !!! Good day to all !!!

[S-cream]

Mi-28-N is generally called Mickey Mouse.
In general, each century has its own beauty and aesthetics.
The rounded towers of old tanks - the last century, because new weapons they do not care deeply.
In the tank, I personally do not notice Westernism, but the correspondence to the century. Moreover, I see aesthetics in it. The harsh aesthetics of a warrior, fighter.

[iConst]

Such boastful statements are annoying.

[A-Sim]

A theory without practice is dead. Only field application will show.

[DOBROCOT]

If they say, then it is. That's what mattresses will be delighted ...
To look in business.

[RuslanNN]

Yesterday I saw them (new equipment) live on Tverskaya, although they are beautiful in the photo, but in life in general beauty, such power. Italian designers relax. Truly beauty is a terrible power. :)

[iConst]

Quote: RuslanNN

. Truly beauty is a terrible power. :)

Is terrible power beauty?

[ivan bogomolov]

Well, listen, the first wheel was also not quite round, give time and it will show itself, 100% will be the best.

[Welcome to hell]

The T-14 is not a heavy tank, but the medium and maximum weight with a dynamic protection of 48t

[Sura]

Now there are no medium-heavy, not just a main tank.

[kil 31]

I’m about this and I think maybe the promised gun 152 will be delivered and called obt. Probably I already pulled everyone up in the forum constantly reminding about gun 152. If anyone has the information they will bet or not give a link.

[Saratovets]

Medium tank up to 40 tons

[gjv]

Quote: Saratovets

Medium tank up to 40 tons

Medium tank is a superior light tank, but inferior to a heavy tank.
Typification by tank mass (specific numbers) is conditional and temporary, and is different in the Armed Forces of different states. Besides. apart from light, medium and heavy, there are also the concepts of "small tank" and "wedge". Domestic example.
TA-3 in 1932 belonged to heavy tanks, as it had a mass of over 32 t.
The most massive (by quantity) main battle tank second generation T-72 by weight 41 t in 1973 was average.

Order of the Minister of Defense of the USSR No. 0148, of 1973, “On the Adoption of the New T-72 Medium Tank by the Soviet Army”

[gjv]

Quote: Welcome to hell

The T-14 is not a heavy tank, but the medium and maximum weight with a dynamic protection of 48t

Quote: Sura

Now there are no medium-heavy, not just a main tank.

Quote: Sura

I’m about this and I think maybe the promised gun 152 will be delivered and called obt.

Current mass data T-14 48 t + 1 t with mounted modules DZ in preparation for the database. And if today the MO represents the T-14 as Medium tank "Armata"Of course, there is a high probability that a heavy tank will appear, for example, T-13 (so that the adversaries were afraid, well, or T-17). Let me remind you:

Heavy tracked unified platform (TGUP) "Armata" - A heavy tracked platform developed by Uralvagonzavod. The platform-based products will be presented to the general public at the Victory Parade in 2015.
On the basis of the unified Armata platform, it is planned to create a main battle tank, a heavy infantry fighting vehicle, a tank support fighting vehicle, an armored recovery and recovery vehicle, a chassis for self-propelled artillery installations and others. The Armata platform was created as a designer, with the help of which it is possible to create combat control vehicles, artillery and missile weapons, military air defense and rear support. In "Armata", you can change the location of the engine from front to rear, add and remove the necessary weapons and equipment. In total, there are about 30 transformation options.

It is believed that seven-base gives development potential up to 65 tons with acceptable performance characteristics. What 65 t? IMHO, of course, the new 152-mm gun 2A83, respectively, more powerful ammunition in mass, and most likely the new turret is larger and with a new AZ for decent ammunition (on the T-14 32 in the AZ + 13 in laying). However, I think that the heavy tank T-13 Armata is the task of the day after tomorrow. The task of the nearest today and tomorrow is to bring it to a combat-ready state and put it into mass production medium tank T-14 Armata. And the opportunities in it are by no means not "average"!
Happy Victory Day! Tremble, damned enemy and prepare your white flag!

[Barberry]

There is an exceptional need to improve heavy armored vehicles. Evolution! I BELIEVE IN THE GENIUS OF RUSSIAN INVENTION, ENGINEERING AND RATIONALITY! This is an important element of the security of our Russia! Happy Great Victory Day!

[bootlegger]

Apparently, the outer casing of the T 14 turret is 15-20 millimeters thick, and under it are the DZ blocks and main armor. The casing is apparently needed to protect the DZ from damage by large fragments and heavy machine guns. and DZ is always useful.

[Basarev]

Even more seriously annoying are the words that a handful of Armatov systems can be installed in seventy-two. Most likely, they will do so, and Almaty will remain only a small group of ceremonial tanks. Although in the minds of all tanks of previous generations, this junk of the times of Tsar Gorokh has one road - to Marten. And the only tank in service with Russia should be Armata. And the only armored infantry fighting vehicle should be Armata. The life of a soldier is superior to any buoyancy and airborne desantation.

[ma_shlomha]

The life of a soldier is superior to any buoyancy and airborne desantation.

I would hang such an inscription in each headquarters and in each of the ministries at the entrance.

[s1н7т]

Quote: Basarev

The life of a soldier is superior to any buoyancy and airborne desantation.

The words.
The cost of a soldier's life is equal to the task he is obliged to accomplish. From the Oath, it seems: "Not sparing his blood and life itself ...". Buoyancy, etc., are the means of achieving success, if they are none, then the cost of a soldier's life only decreases. So a compromise is needed here, no "above".
P.S. One exception: "The challenge is above all!" (And this is not discussed)

[noWAR]

Sorry for the offtopes, guys, but I don’t care about the Americans either: Belarusian hockey players due to dedication on Thursday May 7 were able to do what the Russians failed to defeat the US team at the World Cup. The score in the game is 5: 2. Now Belarusians have taken first place in Group B and are already preparing for a meeting with the Russian team, with whom to play on the important day of May 9. And you cannot say that on Victory Day Russian hockey players will have a special mood, because Belarusians will have the same mood. Once again, I ask

[Casper]

Glad the Belarusians punished the gring! What do you think we’ll play with on May 9?

[Vladimir Pozlnyakov]

Dishonest, but I want to DRAW!

[science fiction writer]

That’s what a bastard set Belarus and me on May 9th to play.
With the Germans and the Austrians it was necessary to set.

[noWAR]

Quote: Casper

Glad the Belarusians punished the gring! What do you think we’ll play with on May 9?

The main thing is that Russia would not offend us with zero, and so I do not care, because for me both are OUR.

[alexvdv78]

Let's lose. Because our players do not know how to tune in or do not want to play at this World Cup. The game that shines for us is the semifinal. And most likely after the quarter finals - home.

[Corsair]

Quote: noWAR

Sorry for the offtopes, guys, but I don’t care about the Americans either: Belarusian hockey players due to dedication on Thursday May 7 were able to do what the Russians failed to defeat the US team at the World Cup. The score in the game is 5: 2.

And this is not a special drain of "partners" to knock us head-ons with the Belarusians?

[serega73]

Damn, I watched the game completely. I am ill, of course, for Russia, but I liked the game of the Belarusians. Fast, technical and efficient. Our guys generally look paler. Well, let’s see, it’s only the beginning

[MMX]

Quote: noWAR

Sorry for the offtopes, guys, but I don’t care about the Americans either: Belarusian hockey players due to dedication on Thursday May 7 were able to do what the Russians failed to defeat the US team at the World Cup. The score in the game is 5: 2. Now Belarusians have taken first place in Group B and are already preparing for a meeting with the Russian team, with whom to play on the important day of May 9. And you cannot say that on Victory Day Russian hockey players will have a special mood, because Belarusians will have the same mood. Once again, I ask

Yesterday I almost organized a booze on this occasion. I watched the match from start to finish. He was rooting for the Slav brothers with all his heart. I also note that at the moment Belarus is now in first place in the group. Bravo! Uncle Kalyuzhny drags)))
It is a pity that on May 9 it is with Belarus that we play. I support both teams.

[Guntruck]

It's nice to read that, of course. But is it not too early to sing praises? After all, this technique has not even passed at the parade on Red Square. I’m not talking about military exercises, which she has not yet been led to, either, or even less about participation in a real battle.

[Performance]

Judging by the number of blown up brains of Western experts and "Svidomo warriors", Armata is already taking part in a real battle, and powerfully knocks down the enemy without firing a single shot yet!

[lom]

Quote: Welcome to hell

The T-14 is not a heavy tank, but the medium and maximum weight with a dynamic protection of 48t

On TV there was a mean info that the tank weighs 60 tons

[VadimSt]

Happy! But first you need to make it the main tank - not by definition, but by saturation in the troops.

According to the expert, such systems can also be installed on T-72B3 and T-90 tanks. Technical difficulties should not arise, the problem is different - in price.

And once they even sang: - "... we will not stand for the price." Either the right moment has not yet come, or capitalism is progressing and the principle is operating: - "money in the evening, chairs in the morning."

[An-mi]

This must be seen in battle. The picture looks beautiful, like a Yudashkin uniform for soldiers.
Donbass is a good place to test the fighting qualities.

[MolGro]

Apparently the author has already bought!

[Russian jacket]

New equipment has been brought in for years ... And then there is such a leap in equipment. You know, gentlemen, critics, when I was studying at a university in the 80s, our professor of machines and apparatus, who has several patents, said the following: "A machine that does not work at the first starts will be brought to mind. This is normal. If a complex system immediately earned, then expect trouble. Either at the acceptance in front of the State Commission will disgrace the creator, or in the series there will be a lot of defects. " It was a real techie who spoke, not an efficient manager. So let it be better to bring Arma to mind by techies , and let the journalist with the liberoid media fight in orgasm screaming "We told you" ...

[UzRus]

If the complex system immediately worked, then expect trouble. - Absolutely right. Or again: if everything is going well, then you haven’t noticed something.

[serega73]

Yes, there is such a thing - when defects come out before the selection committee. The so-called "visit effect".

[glasha3032]

Bring to mind - where? At the parade? If not at the parade - then there is nothing to let the flaw on the parade! We want to scare the enemy - show the reliability of Russian weapons! AK and Mi-8 - as an example! Now imagine the feelings of V.V., Putin in the face of enemies and friends, when the Armata once again stalls opposite the Mausoleum ...

[Russian jacket]

Well, what's the problem. I think that Putin is in the know of Almaty and has authorized it himself. And they will finish on the landfills. They want to brag, they must be ready for embarrassment. Take an interest in how BMP-1 was presented at the parade. Then you will understand the difference in approaches.

[Alexander 3]

Il 28 was a cannibal in the beginning, then it became the most reliable machine. New always requires grinding, fine-tuning. The main thing is that new technologies should not be sold abroad.

[aleks 62]

..... IL 28 at the beginning was a cannibal, then became the most reliable machine ....

..... The first jet bomber, and the pilots came with pistons ..... ..... Piston and jet - slightly different in their features of flying ....

[Mik-51]

Quote: UzRus

If the complex system immediately worked, then expect trouble. - Absolutely right. Or again: if everything is going well, then you haven’t noticed something.

Quote: aleks 62

..... IL 28 at the beginning was a cannibal, then became the most reliable machine ....

..... The first jet bomber, and the pilots came with pistons ..... ..... Piston and jet - slightly different in their features of flying ....

That's right!
IL-28 - at the school - the best memories.
After school - Yak-28. And the most incredible rumors about, then - the T-58, and in fact - the Su-24.
After 2 years, the division began to receive these, then still raw, Su-24s.
Military tests of the Su-24 took place in our 132 bad.
At first - yes, damp pearl, and aerodynamics, handling - no comparison with the Yak-28.
The first three years - three disasters per year.
Nothing, they've finished working, got used to it - they are leaving, until now, and Donadlds Cookies scare to shit and write reports about the dismissal of the "valiant" amersky soldiers.
So it will be with Armata.
Moreover, the platform is multifunctional and very promising.

[maxim947]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Romanian Moldovan replied ...

Not to the Moldavian, but to the Transnistrian.

Flag then change

[Lenin]

Whatever they say, this is a great idea. I think the next step will be tanks controlled remotely from fortified command posts (preferably mobile, you can make all the equipment the same). Let them try to figure out in which, say, of the 20 tanks the operator is sitting, that’s a funny task. It is necessary to take care of the soldier and it is very pleasing that our developers began to think about it.

[s1н7т]

Quote: Lenin

Take care of a soldier

It is not necessary to "protect" the soldier, but "to provide the necessary and sufficient level of security, allowing him to complete the task." This is not an armored car here, Comrade Lenin!

[VladimS]

And when will you die and stop sleeping in different topics?
What is so terrible that stalled is not yet a serial tank?

Exactly what.
Little of. We must understand the responsibility of those participating in the parade of people.
Understandable excitement. Moreover, it is necessary to move not just "gas to the floor", but strictly at a certain speed, very low, which is twice as difficult, without jerks and other deviations in the rhythm of the column movement.
When did you study a car ... did you immediately go like a real ace ??
And here such a colossus .. Have a conscience, critic!

[Makarych]

[quote = An-Mi] The picture looks beautiful, like a Yudashkin uniform for soldiers. / quote]

Photo in the studio. Something comes to mind only the parade, where everyone was dressed up in this "uniform". There was no greater misery to see.

[quote = Pino4et] Critics of Armata and Armata are united by one thing - an uninhabited tower. [/ quote]

But there is a reason to jump, crow about the next victory of Nalivaychenko (a successful admonition of the SBU Square). The armored personnel carriers themselves are turned over ("new"), people are crushed in cities with military equipment, missiles shoot down planes and fly into houses - this is normal, no reason for panic was noticed. The log in your own eye is never visible, gentlemen, svidimity. Don't be like a grenade monkey

[Rider]

Yes, spit on these Svidomitov, they all have induced psychosis there. Something to explain to them to convince is useless while the junta rules there.

[not Russian]

And the British in the parade without pants even go and nothing. And then the tank stopped so that it would be possible just to photograph it calmly and immediately screeched. And the Swiss have holey cheese

[K-50]

Quote: non-Russian

And the Swiss have holey cheese

And the Dutch themselves are full of holes

[loaln]

It will be sent, it will certainly be sent if our macroeconomists do not send it there!

[goose]

Quote: Basarev

Even more seriously annoying are the words that a handful of Armatov systems can be installed in seventy-two. Most likely, they will do so, and Almaty will remain only a small group of ceremonial tanks. Although in the minds of all tanks of previous generations, this junk of the times of Tsar Gorokh has one road - to Marten. And the only tank in service with Russia should be Armata. And the only armored infantry fighting vehicle should be Armata. The life of a soldier is superior to any buoyancy and airborne desantation.

Yes? Here is an example. Volga. Enemy at the gates of Stalingrad. The external enemy destroyed the bridge, there is no pontoon park, how to get to the other side? And there are many such rivers (and even steeper, for example, Amur, Yenisei, Angara, Lena, Tunguska, Ob, etc.) in our country, especially in Siberia and the Far East. But there are few bridges.

[Ruslan]

all the same, to say so, you need to buy these notorious javelins and make test firing on the tank. only then speak. I hope they were shooting at the tank tests, for example, from vampires.

[glasha3032]

And if the shooting from the "Jewelins" will not work, then what?

[Ruslan]

it means to redo everything.

[Chills]

The old principle of the Soviet school "achieving normal superiority" is at work.

[Asadullah]

Quote: Pino4et

And what? Critics of Almaty and Armata are united by one thing - an uninhabited tower.

Here's the thing, an uninhabited tower, not Russian know-how. Russia is only developing the experience of the Jews. And of course the future belongs to this type of technology. The second question is, from what does a certain spiteful company manifest itself in the Western media? The fact is that changing the armored line of weapons is a task that is feasible only for a very powerful power (for example, China) or a small developed country, where the amount of this equipment will be limited to a hundred others, and it will not be necessary to sacrifice a significant share of GDP. Now imagine that the Armata project will completely drain the European tank industry, and the United States will be forced to be drawn into an arms race, for which they are not ready, because real resources are required, not air propaganda projects. It is much easier to portray a laser running on a solarium and striking a hundred million missiles per second, or death rays forcing soldiers of the enemy army to plant potatoes until the rectum is exhausted, or to make another film about the landing of a gay couple on Mars. But tanks are a real product that requires the entire house book of the military-industrial complex, and for a new tank, a new "house book" and a new military-industrial complex. How will the United States meet this challenge? While I see the old scheme - pay the shribikus to bark as usual. Here it is very appropriate to say, well, well.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Asadullah

Now imagine, the Armata project completely drains the European tank industry

What prevents the modernization of equipment by installing more advanced protection systems? Or do you think Leopard is shit?
In any case, in the next 5-15 years, the T-72 and T-90 will remain the main tank.

[Zomanus]

Everything is fine, of course, the tank and the entire range are beyond praise. I hope that there are already thoughts on further modernization. But ... Let's first wait for the introduction of the flow and release in the troops at least the first hundred vehicles. I hope that by then everything will be broken in these tanks. what can only be broken and redone according to recommendations from the field.

[kuz363]

Yes, not a stream is needed, but tank tests in real combat conditions

[Archon]

how can one praise a technique if it has not yet shown itself in any real battle?

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Archon

if she hasn’t shown herself in any real battle yet?

So the t-90 did not fight, the S-300, Peter the Great ... a lot of things
But the technique is created taking into account the combat experience of not only ours but also the world.
By the way, the Chinese at the parade came with some interesting machine guns

[passenger]

There is an eternal struggle of shell and armor. It’s good that ours rushed forward. Now, foreign intelligence will go out to find out the real characteristics of Almaty.

[Pilat2009]

Quote: putnik

It’s good that ours rushed forward

Well, it is not clear whether or not they escaped, KAZs have been developed for a long time both here and abroad, it simply saves the state on its own

http://topwar.ru/31710-sistemy-aktivnoy-zaschity-bronetehniki.html

http://topwar.ru/40621-zaschita-bronirovannyh-mashin-chast-2.html

[lis-ik]

Quote: jarome

They would have to javelin a couple of Javelins and test them, and if all the rules were shown, show the interception on TV, then in Washington, and indeed in NATO, they would begin to destroy with bricks.

I think these Javelins have already been stolen, still at the development stage, and applied the stolen knowledge in the design of Almaty.

[Asadullah]

Quote: Archon

how can one praise a technique if it has not yet shown itself in any real battle?

They praise not technology, but a step forward. Re-equipment has already been announced, which means export options will appear. And perhaps even very soon, let's see how this technique works, for example in Syria.

And do you have to scold out of habit a priori? My will, for such a habit, would send bags to the barge to carry.

[RAA]

And that dump is called Syria!

[S_Baykala]

Quote: lom

60_ton_ armata will be hard to get stuck in the mud

Like 50 (48) tons were announced. Wiki also gives 48. I have not found a new one yet. And at 1500 l / s at 50 tons, the dynamics should be more than good, the cross-country ability at 50 tons should not differ very much from the t-90. The carrying capacity of a railway wagon is 60 tons, i.e. there will be no problems with the transfer of equipment. But Leo 2 - 63 tons, M1A2 - almost 70, Challenger 2 - 62.5, Merkava 4 - 65. Who has better cross-country ability and answer yourself (although it does not only depend on weight). They’re not fools at UVZ, but some of the best tank builders in the world.

[kaluganew]

Vasily’s five

[Lenivets]

Yes, the highest rating.
But it would be better evaluated on a 100 point scale.

[goblin xnumx]

as they could, they were tearing everything away from their people with tears, to give her :)

[goblin xnumx]

and not 5- but 2.5- and soon either amnesty or filed for udo

[33 Watcher]

Yes, they will run in, fire and shoot, another customer, m. five times the requirements will be adjusted. About two years later we will see the final version. I’m interested in another question: how much will we be able to do them, how quickly we will replace the park, and how quickly we will train the staff, so that we won’t get confused in managing the transmission ...

[starshina pv]

BEAUTY !!!!!

[sagitch]

It was not a bobbin, dolb..b sat in the cockpit!

Quote: lom

60_ton_ armata will be hard to get stuck in the mud

And this also depends on the gasket, between the levers and the seat, by 99%.

[raid14]

Ave novie-nostra ales. If you take it seriously, the vulnerability of the tank in its high technologies, namely, a special danger is presented by combined ammunition such as electromagnetic 100-152 mm shells, 40 mm, 105 mm and 125 mm rocket-propelled grenades, 122 mm warheads of unguided missiles that blind and damage electronics .

[S_Baykala]

Quote: lom

60_ton_ armata will be hard to get stuck in the mud

Like 50 (48) tons were announced. Wiki also gives 48. I have not found a new one yet. And at 1500 l / s at 50 tons, the dynamics should be more than good, the cross-country ability at 50 tons should not differ very much from the t-90. The carrying capacity of a railway wagon is 60 tons, i.e. there will be no problems with the transfer of equipment. But Leo 2 - 63 tons, M1A2 - almost 70, Challenger 2 - 62.5, Merkava 4 - 65. Who has better cross-country ability and answer yourself (although it does not only depend on weight). They’re not fools at UVZ, but some of the best tank builders in the world.
Ps on the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation the tank is named average (according to the classification of the USSR weighing up to 40 tons). Do not tell me why?

[logix1312]

In terms of speed and maneuverability, it corresponds to the middle class, in terms of protection and armament - to heavy.

[Mirth]

Quote: S_Baykala

Ps on the website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation the tank is called medium (according to the classification of the USSR weighing up to 40 tons). Do not tell me why?

Because the next victim of the exam has attached that caption to the picture. No longer medium tanks. There are basic combat.
The second option - in the depths of the Ministry of Defense the idea arose to revive the classification that existed before the appearance of the T-64. And if Armata is medium, then some unknown miracle with a 152 mm gun will be heavy. But, frankly, this is somehow poorly believed.

[Peacemaker]

One "highlight". This apparatus, the possibility of full automation and robotization ... In contrast to small combat robots - this is a real, highly protected tank with powerful weapons. He can do a lot of trouble to the enemy!

[Peacemaker]

One "highlight". This apparatus, the possibility of full automation and robotization ... In contrast to small combat robots - this is a real, highly protected tank with powerful weapons. He can do a lot of trouble to the enemy!

[iouris]

But why is he vulnerable? Weapons are becoming unconventional (as are gender relations).

[gameover_65]

my opinion about the armature seen so far is skeptical.
well firstly, if the tower is not inhabited, then what, it is not necessary to book? what we see is cardboard or tin cases. any armor-piercing and fighting compartment are no longer in the tower. everyone is alive, the tank is on track, but what's the point?
Secondly, two hatches for three people confuse me. how to leave a wrecked car? and if someone is injured or killed?
thirdtoo many boxes and knots outside. that’s all until the first shooting with small arms. after shelling with the same 12,7 and falling under shelling, not to mention 30mm, everything will be damaged there. yes alive, maybe the battle will be extended, but by the next day it cannot be repaired and the car will not be able to go into battle.

armored infantry fighting vehicles, what kind of fish is a hammer?)))

Kurgan generally tin. did you see its height?

in a boomerang, the mechwater protrudes above the armor, this is generally a glitch. obviously designed by striker fans.

so I hope so far that they showed some dummies, and not something that goes to the troops.

[mamont5]

Quote: fiction

Yes, I got already with this Armata stalled.

So what? This is a technique. And it can break. Moreover, the tank is only from the factory. There were similar cases in parades and not only here. Always the possibility of this is taken into account. Perhaps now they also wanted to work out a similar freelance operation with a new tank. It would be something to talk about.
"At one time, the participants of the parade on Red Square in the fall of 1945 said that even then, in case of equipment failure during the passage of the columns, tractors stood at the ready near the building of the Historical Museum. Then there were other precautions: the driver-mechanics drove in a fighting manner, with closed hatches , and inside each car there was a "man in civilian clothes" with a pistol.

“Throughout the history of the parades, there have been several emergency situations,” says military expert Vladislav Shurygin. - There is nothing like that. It's just that in this case, an evacuation was carried out, usually without even interrupting. In the 70s, the tank stopped and stalled. There was an emergency at the entrance. Actually, for this, training is carried out in order to identify the state of technology, to finally eliminate all the shortcomings, so that during the parade itself this situation will no longer exist. The unhealthy excitement around today's "Armata" stop only brought a smile to my mind. By and large, the Ministry of Defense went too far with PR training. Previously, they were closed, and the novelty remained as such. "
http://warfiles.ru/show-87603-vnezapnaya-ostanovka-armaty-vryad-li-vyzvana-probl
emami-s-tehnikoy.html

[Evilcat]

Superiority you say? Well, let's hope. Only after all in the article the conversation is somewhat not about that. Well, where does the author get such self-confidence? Poor, poor bourgeois will sit and cry over their "useless" shells? Yes, at all times there was a struggle between armor and artillery. What is the conversation about? It's just that Armata is on a horse right now. Well, the bourgeoisie will learn to fight in a few years, so Russia will have something new.

[rol66]

Yes, even this is not the case .. who will do it a. Old people whose hands are already shaking .. Strange people, are you saying A. well? Zeros are complete and there’s something to judge ... go to the factory, see what is there and how

[Normal ok]

Yesterday there was information on RBC that the state order for Armata was reduced. ???

[Dryuya2]

Quote: Normal ok

Yesterday there was info on RBC,

http://top.rbc.ru/business/07/05/2015/554b5e869a7947aa0808faaf
but there’s no way to read it yourself?????
In November 2014, the deputy head of the board of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation, Oleg Bochkarev, said that the cost of new Armata tanks is too high. According to him, the contract has already been signed, and the price of the equipment has been determined, but “we need to continue to work.”

In a January interview with RBC, the general director of Uralvagonzavod Oleg Sienko commented on the customers’ complaints: “We had only one complaint - the price. You can’t ask for a high-quality product at a price three times lower than its analogues.” “Inflation and exchange rates say that we made a good car at the best price, probably in the world,” he added, without disclosing the cost of the tank.

Deputy General Director of Uralvagonzavod Vyacheslav Khalitov, in a conversation with RBC-TV, said that “there will be no reduction, the contract has been fulfilled and is being fulfilled, there are no problems here.”

«If we are talking about price, then the price has been agreed upon with the Ministry of Defense, acceptable, corresponds to the methodology for determining the price of a contact, which is determined by all ministries and departments,” Khalitov said. “Now, of course, there is an increase in raw materials, materials, and purchased components, but we do not go beyond the overall price of products.”

In January, Khalitov told TASS that the price for the Armata “was developed according to the methodology of the Ministry of Defense, it is absolutely acceptable for a new generation vehicle and has been agreed upon with all military authorities.” “The cost is neither too high nor too low, it corresponds to this type of weapon, and the Ministry of Defense agrees with it,” he explained.

[maks007]

Quote: gameover_65

my opinion about the armature seen so far is skeptical.
well firstly, if the tower is not inhabited, then what, it is not necessary to book? what we see is cardboard or tin cases. any armor-piercing and fighting compartment are no longer in the tower. everyone is alive, the tank is on track, but what's the point?
Secondly, two hatches for three people confuse me. how to leave a wrecked car? and if someone is injured or killed?
thirdtoo many boxes and knots outside. that’s all until the first shooting with small arms. after shelling with the same 12,7 and falling under shelling, not to mention 30mm, everything will be damaged there. yes alive, maybe the battle will be extended, but by the next day it cannot be repaired and the car will not be able to go into battle.

armored infantry fighting vehicles, what kind of fish is a hammer?)))

Kurgan generally tin. did you see its height?

in a boomerang, the mechwater protrudes above the armor, this is generally a glitch. obviously designed by striker fans.

so I hope so far that they showed some dummies, and not something that goes to the troops.

I think you should read about 44S-sv-Sh, you can also find a screenshot and information about testing this 25 mm thick steel from the B32 armor-piercing bullet of 12,7 caliber.
I also think you should at least read the information
http://warfiles.ru/show-87599-chto-predstavlyaet-iz-sebya-bashnya-tanka-t-14-arm

this is about artillery shelling.

Screenshot from Tank T-90MS

[gameover_65]

maks007 in order to talk about tanks, you have to at least stand next to them))
Only motorized riflemen see more dirt than tankers.
look at the photo you attached. LCD display, a bunch of remote controls with buttons. and a guy with lumps of dirt on his feet stumbles in there, thoroughly staining everything)
Do you even have any idea what it’s like to press a button while moving? and the residential complex will definitely die in winter. It will just stupidly freeze and burst the screen. don't believe me? Leave the navigator in the car in winter at -20 for two or three days.

[kig]

I wonder how all these protrusions, turrets and antennas will behave in a real battle? Will he go blind without them?

[kuz363]

All these delights are just beautiful words. Was its qualities tested at testing grounds in conditions close to real ones? And is it worth that kind of money?

[Ross_ulair]

Armata is the most computerized combat unit in our army now. Cooler - only in aviation

The most important thing regarding components is whether we are able to fully provide Armata with all the necessary electronics? Or only import?
If the latter, then this is far from good. Even satisfactorily at a stretch. Today the PRC is friends and allies - tomorrow it is an enemy in a total war (remember only the USSR-Germany in the 20s - the first half of the 30s, and what happened then). And what will we do without Chinese electronics?

I believe that we can design and produce tank engines, transmissions, weapons, defense systems, and sighting systems at the global level - without the participation of imported components. But are we currently capable of providing the military-industrial complex with electronics ourselves? Completely eliminating imports.

Another point is the unification of all types of troops on the battlefield into a single network. The Yankees at one time made this revolution - the unification of all branches of the military into a single system, plus the high command in the Pentagon, with the ability to communicate with a standard field device, which every lieutenant has, even to the very top - if only there were the necessary codes.
In practice, this means computers on every piece of armored vehicles - in the future - on every soldier. And these computers must be assembled only from domestic components and be based on a domestic OS.


IMHO, the most important thing is complete import substitution of the entire military-industrial complex. Or import, but to a minimum - like Michelin tires on new KAMAZ armored vehicles. In peacetime - perhaps even cheaper than developing and producing domestic ones, in wartime - we will replace them with our own (like rollers with internal shock absorption in the first half of the war on thirty-fours)

[maks007]

Quote: ruslan

all the same, to say so, you need to buy these notorious javelins and make test firing on the tank. only then speak. I hope they were shooting at the tank tests, for example, from vampires.

Why shoot at a tank, just check the operation of the KAZ and Afganit.

infographics

infographics

[Vadim237]

The performance characteristics of the picture do not correspond to reality.

[artura0911]

Guys, what a fuss they made, any equipment can break. And new Mercedes and Ferraris sometimes break down, but this does not mean that they are of poor quality. And the Armata T-14 Tank is a real breakthrough in tank building. Well done, the Tank turned out great!!!!!!!!!!

[wanderer_032]

As they say, we waited. The “fifth column” project has begun to operate and is taking aim at the sacred:

Alfa Bank is going to declare Uralvagonzavod bankrupt

Uralvagonzavod may go bankrupt. Alfa Bank is going to file a bankruptcy claim. The bank has already notified all creditors of the company about this.
At the same time, the research and production corporation Uralvagonzavod believes that Alfa Bank’s intentions are unconstructive, TASS reports. Alfa Bank’s actions are related to the delay in the loan of ChTZ-Uraltrak LLC, explained the deputy general director of the enterprise, Alexey Zharich.
The debt has now been repaid. But the bank presented the entire amount for repayment at once, and now it is trying to bankrupt the entire corporation.
ChTZ-Uraltrak notified Alfa Bank that it was awaiting a decision on state support and implementation of the anti-crisis program developed at the enterprise. “The subsidies received from the state will also be used to restructure the enterprise’s loan portfolio,” assured Alexey Zharich. “In addition, the devaluation of the ruble and a number of government decisions made it possible to increase orders for civilian products. We consider this step of the bank to be unconstructive, and we hope to resolve the issue in line dialogue".
Uralvagonzavod is a Russian corporation engaged in the development and production of military equipment, road construction machines, and railway cars. The corporation includes research institutes, design bureaus and manufacturing enterprises. The head enterprise is the Uralvagonzavod plant, located in Nizhny Tagil, Sverdlovsk region. 100 percent of the corporation's shares belong to the state.
The products of Uralvagonzavod include and were the T-34, T-54, T-55, T-62, T-72 and T-90 tanks. Also a Ural development is a new product that will appear on Red Square during the Victory Parade on May 9, 2015 - the T-14 Armata tank.
On July 17, 2014, the US Treasury Department imposed sanctions against Uralvagonzavod in connection with the situation in Ukraine. As of April 2015, more than 5 thousand employees of the company are on forced leave.
http://www.vesti.ru/doc.html?id=2564584

[wanderer_032]

Alfa-Bank

Owners and management

The parent company is ABH Financial Ltd., registered in offshore in Cyprus [21].

More than 75% of the bank’s shares belong to Alfa Group (in fact, this package is indirectly owned or controlled by Mikhail Fridman (36,47%), German Khan (23,27%) and Alexey Kuzmichev (18,12%)); the remaining shares belong to to individuals, including 13,76% to the bank’s president Petr Aven, 4,3% to Alex Knaster and 4,08% to Andrey Kosogov.
https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Альфа-банк

[pots 56]

Yes! Very loud! People, should you use your brains? Vasilyeva is faced with Perdyukov and LADIES! Sheds on wheels!!

[kvs45]

Quote: c1n7

But, for my taste, 60 tons is a bit much. In our remote places I haven’t seen such bridges - everywhere is a limitation. So we will fight with the OPVT?

Where have you seen entire bridges during large-scale hostilities? Engineering support in the army should be at the level

[shadow]

That's what rehearsals are for. And there’s no point in shaming grandma here.

[bagRich]

Quote: logix1312

Loud statement! I really want to believe it! But in the title of the article one hears more emotion than common sense. Although I really hope that in the near future the T-14 tank will prove in practice (God forbid in war) its superiority over foreign models of heavy equipment.

Agree! It’s amazing the number of experts that have gone viral in the media and their unsubstantiated “authoritative” statements

[rol66]

So I’ll keep quiet about the moderators... are you sure that this is not cardboard A.?

[bagRich]

And in general, why all this cheap advertising with Almaty?? Everything began to irritate! As if some director had gone crazy and he had lost his sense of reality

[rol66]

This is a scribe before it is released... they are more on parade... at least they showed the test

[rol66]

What are you talking about? It's very sad to hear

It’s very sad to listen to such statements... what are they based on? Eh..., do you work in production or jerk off to the monitor?

[Alexxeg73]

What do “Armata” and the descendant of the great proto-Ukrainians have in common? Answer: - an uninhabited tower!

[HMR333]

What do Armata and Khokhlo-fascist have in common - an uninhabited tower! )))

[rol66]

What a fuck these armchair warriors are.

[bender8282]

not everything, guys, they didn’t show us everything! this is already a miracle, they will trick you and there will be a beast! like 34! I believe in it!

[Dinko]

The cars are very interesting; life and operation will show the rest, but now we can say that, at least conceptually, ours have left NATO far behind!

[Dinko]

Yes, I must add that, as experts say, the engine on Armata is not yet the same as planned, the so-called X-shaped diesel engine with a reduced output of unmasking exhaust gases. Its rows of cylinders are arranged in the form of, dare I say it, the letter ha Well, or if anyone notices something in this, the letters ex.

[Gvfrog]

Quote: glasha3032

In other countries they didn’t make new tanks, they didn’t beat the drums for 2 years! And here, they didn’t do so, they rumbled for two years!

But the F-35 has been getting PR from the moment it was conceived, but it never learned not to fly, not to shoot

[maks007]

Quote: gameover_65

maks007 in order to talk about tanks, you have to at least stand next to them))
Only motorized riflemen see more dirt than tankers.
look at the photo you attached. LCD display, a bunch of remote controls with buttons. and a guy with lumps of dirt on his feet stumbles in there, thoroughly staining everything)
Do you even have any idea what it’s like to press a button while moving? and the residential complex will definitely die in winter. It will just stupidly freeze and burst the screen. don't believe me? Leave the navigator in the car in winter at -20 for two or three days.

I personally have an idea. Don’t fool people, and don’t equate consumer goods with equipment for military purposes. You probably should know how state acceptance of this or that equipment for military purposes occurs at the plant, if not, then I sympathize with you.

With this logic about lumps of dirt, then we have nothing to fear; any Western technology that gets into our latitudes will then be a mess.

[Normal ok]

Regarding state acceptance: there was recently an article about the fall of Russian space rockets - state acceptance has degenerated into a formality.

[Normal ok]

Regarding state acceptance: there was recently an article about the fall of Russian space rockets - state acceptance has degenerated into a formality.

[Prisoner]

I would take it for state acceptance.

[Gvfrog]

Better than Mehlis!!!

[maks007]

Quote: Vadim237

The performance characteristics of the picture do not correspond to reality.

I think its true performance characteristics will not be known for a long time.

[Willywonka]

IMHO, of course there are positive changes, but only those that allow us to say that we are not behind forever. As far as I understand, one of the undoubted advantages is the change in layout, which, judging by the statistics of Donbass and other theaters of war, showed that Soviet tank building had gone wrong, to put it mildly.
About the shells... I don’t know whether Svinets2 has been tested with T14, or whether the new layout allows the AZ to be used with this type of ammunition. Since there is no analogue of the M829A2/3 in service, it is important to have the above-mentioned charges in service. Protection of the upper hemisphere from fragments - there are questions.
Well, for everything else, like the transmission/control system/ - I think they are behind...forever. The Rheinmetall gun must be compared with the T14, our service life was 2 times lower. We’ll take a look. The default engine is worse, but if they produce the declared power of 1500-2000 horses, we will lose in the transmission. Something like this. As for Design...in the European trend.

[Normal ok]

Here's some interesting information:
http://m.rosbalt.ru/main/2015/05/08/1396605.html
What will happen next to Armata?

[Normal ok]

Quote: gameover_65

maks007Only motorized riflemen see more dirt than tankers.

And artillerymen :)

[Prisoner]

Don't tell me! You have to watch it in battle and then draw conclusions. And he is so handsome - there are no words.

[Gvfrog]

I was very interested in this discussion, so I watched the Victory Parade very carefully, and I had a very strange feeling: you look at the Armata or the T-15, and a double picture pops up in your head on one side, a chronicle of military parades of the 30s with the majestic T-35 and footage of the film "We Fought for the Motherland" where German tanks depict Soviet T-55s scalded with sheet iron.

[renat.004]

again the liberal race is minus, let them profess themselves in all the holes of the creature

[renat.004]

anyone who believes that conscripts sit behind tanks is a loser

[Prisoner]

Did someone say conscripts? And what kind of sucker would imprison a conscript?

[Gvfrog]

I don’t understand why I was downvoted, maybe I couldn’t get the point across, sorry if I didn’t reveal my vision of the situation. I just wanted to express one sneaking suspicion (and if it is true, then express respect to the organizers of the parade) I am interested in the history of military equipment and noticed this pattern: all successful examples of military equipment look harmonious and beautiful, let’s take the WWII period Bf-109, P-51 (Mustang) , Yak-3, T-34-85, T-V (Panther). I just wanted to say that I had the idea that the main purpose of the show was not to show anything. If the combat module of the T-15 looks organic and expedient, then the mounted armor on the T-15 and the combat module on the Armata creates the impression of a welded dummy to mislead the adversary.

[Willywonka]

To GVFrog I completely agree about harmony, for example, ummm... For example, Leopard Revolution - without any parade it is said that nothing from Russian tank ammunition can hit the frontal projection area. And I believe...Umm, the gun, like the Abrams, like the K2, is Rheinmetall. I’m not very sure, to be honest, about the capabilities of the new Russian gun, as well as the shells, by the way. My confidence is based on the experience of using the SteyrManliher and the impossibility of producing a decent cartridge for this unit.
PS T34 is a very sad tank. You put him on par with the Panther. Without thinking, probably...Panther tankers had a funny reminder that when a T80 hit 34% of the frontal plane, the latter caught fire. Figli, the tanks are in the BO - a shell hit, get a hot shower from diesel fuel. And of course, the culture of manufacturing...towers in particular (hardening). Something like this.
About beauty...

[Gvfrog]

Let me disagree a little, perhaps we draw information from different sources, but the vaunted Panther was also not an ideal fuel system leak, and this is gasoline and not diesel fuel and asbestos gloves so that cartridges were thrown out often after the 3rd shot the fan broke, and when taking into account the characteristics of 85mm guns for T-34 and 75mm for T-V, whoever saw the enemy first survived. And how much can we compare tanks based on spare parts? Let’s look at the tank as a complex weapon system, and this includes the cost of production, the simplicity and ease of operation and repair, and the speed of mastery by the crew. Yes, the Tiger is undoubtedly cool and super optics and a super weapon and convenience for the crew, but but but for production you need a qualified workforce, a powerful production base, and this is the cost, and repairs in the field, and the chassis and the qualifications of the crew, because tankers need to be trained .

[Willywonka]

One more shot... Let's look, compare it with Armata... I think the whole world is already afraid. Armata, of course.

[Setrac]

Quote: WillyWonka

Let's look and compare with Armata...

And what is there to compare with? What's special about this tank? Is this Leopard-3 or another sleek modernization of Leopard-2?

[Willywonka]

Actually, what doesn’t exist yet. It’s as if they have something “unparalleled in the world”

[Wolka]

not delighted with what we saw, we were shown rather crude samples of new types of tanks and armored personnel carriers, which is quite understandable, politics demands its own, but how long will it take to bring these monsters to a truly perfect state is a big question, it’s good if by 2020 the defense industry will meet and satiate they have an army, but if people like Vasilyeva are at the helm, it’s unlikely...

[Willywonka]

sorry for the wiki "12-cylinder four-stroke uncompressor diesel V-2-34, Fuel - diesel, grade DT or gas oil grade "E" according to OST 8842" this is according to T34. I don’t argue about the dampness of the Panther in 1943, but still this does not cancel the general dullness of the T34. Especially after December 5, 1941, when the time for processing parts was reduced from 198,9 to 36 hours (S. Bely). After this, the throwing of metal began. Hardening the VLD entirely led to disastrous results. Are there test results for the T34 at the Aberdeen Proving Ground, please - http://topwar.ru/print:page,1,20559-byl-li-t-34-luchshim-tankom.html
As for Almaty. We have a lag in the production of BOPS by FSUE NIMI, a monopolist in the USSR, and now in Russia. IMHO, all Soviet/Russian BOPS have a “large parasitic mass” and they have not even reached the level of the M829A1. It is impossible to make BOPS in Western dimensions. Let's hope for Lead2.
According to Armata, the concept, IMHO, is not new. Discussed at VO http://btvt.narod.ru/3/blok3/blok3.htm
The concept itself, according to Hunnicutt, is the Concept M-6 presented at a competition in February 1953 in the USA. Let's see where this path leads. But implementation issues remain. I look at Revolution and Armata, and doubts creep in. I hope it's just doubts.

[Vadim237]

The Mango-M OBPS penetrates the frontal 560 mm combined armor of the T 72B tank at a distance of 2000 meters, and in the near future it will be quite sufficient to destroy all Western tanks.

[maks007]

Quote: Normal ok

Regarding state acceptance: there was recently an article about the fall of Russian space rockets - state acceptance has degenerated into a formality.

It was about

and the residential complex will definitely die in winter. It will just stupidly freeze and burst the screen. don't believe me? Leave the navigator in the car in winter at -20 for two or three days.

in the topic about tank structure. Let's not all fit the same mold, and this is a separate topic.

[Normal ok]

Quote: maks007

Quote: Normal ok

Regarding state acceptance: there was recently an article about the fall of Russian space rockets - state acceptance has degenerated into a formality.

It was about

and the residential complex will definitely die in winter. It will just stupidly freeze and burst the screen. don't believe me? Leave the navigator in the car in winter at -20 for two or three days.

in the topic about tank structure. Let's not all fit the same mold, and this is a separate topic.

You're pretending or you really don't understand. Read the previous comment. There they talked about state acceptance of tanks. They say state acceptance of Almaty = 100% quality. But in reality, even in the production of spaceships (where the production culture is incomparably higher and state acceptance must correspond), even there there are glaring mistakes. For example, the sensors were inserted the wrong way. They didn't even put it in, they hammered it in with a hammer.

[Target]

“The adoption of the T-14 Armata tanks will lead to the fact that NATO’s arsenal of anti-tank missiles will remain an effective weapon only against outdated models of tanks. And even those can be equipped with a protective complex similar to the Armatov one.”

Sounds doubtful, but what if it is? NATO will only create new missiles.
PS it smells like an overestimation of one's strengths.

[maks007]

Quote: WillyWonka

One more shot... Let's look, compare it with Armata... I think the whole world is already afraid. Armata, of course.

You just forgot to mention the year 2010 about screenshots (pictures).

The MBT Revolution demonstrated at the Paris show was a deeply modernized Leopard 2A4. The main directions of improvements designed to transform the tank produced in 1985-1992 into a modern combat vehicle capable of withstanding virtually all existing challenges

You might be interested in reading http://rufor.org/showthread.php?p=952
The main feature of the new T-14

...the main feature of the new Russian armored vehicles is remote-controlled weapons. The crews of "Armat", "Kurgantsev", "Boomerangs" and "Coalition" are protected by isolated armored capsules, and the weapons of the latest vehicles are concentrated in uninhabited combat modules...

And to catch up - for a complete comparison you need to at least know the performance characteristics of the new T-14 + what will actually go into production, after all the tests and modifications.

[Willywonka]

Quote: maks007

You just forgot to mention the year 2010 about screenshots (pictures).

I wanted to focus not on the year, but on comparing production culture.

[Moncyber]

Quote: y ℒiƒℯ

Removed comm. Bravo moderators. The right way go comrades. I am sure this Armata will definitely become invincible.

Bravo moderators! Please also delete his second comment and ban his friend.

[Willywonka]

Quote: maks007

You just forgot to mention the year 2010 about screenshots (pictures).
The MBT Revolution demonstrated at the Paris show was a deeply modernized Leopard 2A4. The main directions of improvements designed to transform the tank produced in 1985-1992 into a modern combat vehicle capable of withstanding virtually all existing challenges

AND....? Abrams was released in 1980, operation is expected until 2040. And as if nothing prevents it from being called the number 1 tank. The next modernization package is being prepared: a lightweight new gun, fire control system armor, etc. Leo is the same age as Abrams. Some things were better at first, some worse. The point is different, ABrams and Leo are tanks of the same concept - MBT70/XM803. They moved from the heavy tank initially, we moved from the breakthrough tank. The result is a sad statistic. All these T64 modifications have a common drawback - insufficient armor space. That is, certain restrictions on the engine, ammunition dimensions, etc. The restrictions are such that it makes no sense for NATO to say that they will “send all our power supplies to the landfill.” They and we have already done it. They are the development of their concept. We have reached a dead end.
Of course, there are changes to the layout for the better. I hope for successful implementation. The problem seems to me to be different. The new concept is of course good...but we have come to a point where the difference in culture is visible. Production culture in our case. Whatever we do, be it a fire control system, a gun, an engine, dynamic protection (dynamic protection), transmission, ammunition - we make it worse. You can argue, but it’s difficult to deny reality (except in materials and alloys...and then). 70 years ago this difference was noticeable, but not so scary. Now it's just huge.
Can a concept win if it's poorly executed? This is my question, dear forum users.

[Normal ok]

Quote: ruslan207

Kaiten (1) -You look strategist!
Everyone blamed Pavlov, but you don’t take into account that the Germans had all of Europe behind them and had vast experience in warfare, and the German soldiers had already been fired upon

So, after all, the Soviet troops, in the 5 years preceding the war, went through 3 wars: Spain, Khalkhin Gol, Finnish.

[Willywonka]

Quote: Vadim237

“The Mango-M OBPS penetrates the frontal 560 mm combined armor of the T 72B tank at a distance of 2000 meters, and in the near future it will be quite sufficient to destroy all Western tanks.

Yeah.. http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2014-03-28/1_artillery.html
or here's another from http://vpk-news.ru/articles/2915
"CONSEQUENCES OF INSUFFICIENT ARMOR PENETRATION

Testing of anti-tank ammunition is carried out against obstacles that simulate the frontal protection of foreign tanks. In this regard, the technical specifications for the BPS 3BM42 ("Mango") required the penetration of an armor plate with a thickness of 210 mm/60° (at an angle of 60° from the normal to the surface of the armor plate) at a distance of 2 km. It should be noted that the 210 mm/60° armor plate has nothing in common with the armor protection of modern foreign tanks. The angle of 60° is not typical for the angles of inclination of the frontal fragments of protection of tanks of the Abrams family and others. At the same time, we recall that the anti-ballistic armor resistance of the frontal protection zones of the M1A2 tank is 700 mm. Will the Mango BPS overcome such an obstacle? This projectile was tested only against monolithic barriers, while enemy tanks already had multi-layer armor. In this case, the development of protection for foreign tanks is being ignored when developing tactical and technical requirements (TTT) for this ammunition."
Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/2915
The main reason for the lag of our BOPS was announced above. The impossibility of creating BOPS with Western weight and size indicators. They cannot make a solid core. This all leads to photographs like these. 6 km seems to be too much... although for the 829A3 it may not be a problem. There is an opinion that Contact does not work when damaged by this BP.
By the way, this is indirectly confirmed by http://topwar.ru/22600-analiz-stati-t-72b-vs-m1a2-abrams.html. Read about Mango.

[Vadim237]

I don’t use all sorts of left-wing sources, but rely on tests from several research institutes.

[Willywonka]

Quote: Vadim237

I don’t use all sorts of left-wing sources, but rely on tests from several research institutes.

Left?...Hmm, this is a scan from a poster of the Scientific Research Institute of Steel. M829A3, there is an opinion, does not initiate the operation of either “Contact” or “Relic”. M829A3 - guaranteed defeat from 4 km, judging by the Persian Gulf (statistics can be found if desired). There is a Celli -2 hit from a distance of 5,35 in T55, or M60 (Israel) from a distance of 6,8, I think this is an exception.

[Willywonka]

For comparison, we can contrast something similar to the L55 or the Reinmetall M256 mod, is it a gun? Do we have analogues of M829A3 or DM53? Do we have analogues of Western CIUS or panoramas? Can we make AGT-1500? Transmission? In general, what remains is a top-secret alloy, an armored capsule and a new concept. Is this enough? Don't know. IMHO the closest competitors in the near future will not be Abrams or Leopard (they are far ahead), but Chinese cars.