Military Review

Fighter OKB HAZ - Grushin Gr-1 (IDS). THE USSR. 1940 year

36

One of the least known heavy fighters, created in our country on the eve of the war, was the so-called long-range fighter escort IDS created under the leadership of PDGrushin.

Peter Dmitrievich Grushin began working in the field of aircraft while still a student at the Moscow Aviation Institute with the construction of the aircraft "Steel" MAI. After receiving a degree in mechanical engineering in aircraft construction, Grushin was left at the institute and worked at the 101 (Aircraft Building) department, and then became the chief designer of the MAI design bureau. Working in this position from 1934 to 1940 year, he built a number of aircraft, among which the most famous was the BB-MAI light bomber.

In 1940, Grushin had the opportunity to prove himself at the real production base of the serial aircraft factory No. XXUMX in Kharkov, where he was transferred to the post of chief designer of the OKB KhAZ.
The main task assigned to the designer was the creation of a heavy long-range fighter as part of the overall development program for this type of aircraft.

Work on the project went pretty quickly. In December 1940 of the year, the non-built aircraft was given the name Gr-1, that is, Grushin-first.
Unlike the heavy twin-engine fighter OKO-6 built here, the IDS Grushin was designed for two liquid-cooled AM-37 engines designed by A.A. Mikulin with 1200 power HP. In terms of its aerodynamic configuration, the aircraft rather strongly resembled the German multipurpose fighter Messerschmitt Bf .110, which was well known at that time, and had overall dimensions close to it.

True, unlike Messerschmitt, Gr-1 was single, and the engine cooling system radiators were located under the center section of the wing and were made retractable. The exhaust manifolds of the engines were brought to the upper surface of the wing, as was done on the DIS of Mikoyan-Gurevich and TISe Polikarpov. The cockpit was armored. It is interesting to note that this factor was the basis for determining the crew size - one pilot or two. In terms of weight, the double version of the cabin with equipment for the gunner-radio operator was by no means heavier than an armored box welded from steel sheets and fully protecting the pilot. Nevertheless, Grushin gave his weights the task of analyzing the one and the other option, so it turned out that a fully booked single-seat cabin would be lighter on the 18 kg. And so this plane went single. Perhaps this decision was somewhat hasty, since the need for a second crew member on machines of this class was subsequently confirmed by the war.

The armament of the SID was powerful enough and in no way inferior to its main enemy - Bf.110. In the forward part of the fuselage there were two ShKAS machine guns, and above them were two 20-mm ShVAK cannons. Two more ShKAS were installed in the wing wings. All machine guns had 1250 ammunition for each barrel. The guns included ammunition for 300 shells. There was another lower ventral setting with two 37-mm guns with ammunition for 200 shells per cannon.
Under the wing of the aircraft, it was possible to install four girder holders for the suspension of eight 100-kg bombs or four missile shells PC-82 or PC-132. In addition, instead of the ventral cannon container on the inner suspension it was possible to place up to 500 kg of bombs.

Fighter OKB HAZ - Grushin Gr-1 (IDS). THE USSR. 1940 year

Despite the seeming similarity with the German Messerschmitt Bf.110, the Grushinsky IDS had a completely different design from it. The wing spars had a box-shaped cross section. Their walls and shelves were made of tapered steel strips welded in a closed loop. The knot connector spar had an original design with transverse combs.
The construction of the fighter, which received the designation Gr-1 in advance, was completed in just 9 months. Static tests on the strength of the structure took only a few days and, after the elimination of minor flaws, in the early spring of 1941, the prototype of the aircraft was sent to pass full-scale purging at TsAGI. For this, Gr-1 in June 1941 had to be disassembled and sent to Moscow. The assembly of the fighter was to be carried out at plant number XXUMX, but on the way from Kharkov, the train fell under bombing. The prototype was badly damaged, and all the project documentation was burned. In such circumstances, further work on the Gr-185 decided not to continue. In addition, by September the X-NUMX of the Pe-1 was already being built in series, and the Tairov Ta-1941 fighter was at the final testing stage and was also ready for mass production. But in the Gr-3 laid impressive flight performance.
According to Grushin's calculations, at the optimal height of 7200 meters, his fighter could reach a maximum speed of up to 650 km / h, and at a height of 5000 meters - 645 km / h. The practical ceiling of the Gr-1 was 11700 meters, the maximum range of flight (with full refueling of 2550 fuel liters) - 1890 km. At the same time, the plane had a run-up of just 400 meters and a mileage of 450 meters.

Even compared to the Ta-3, the Grushin fighter looked very promising, but it was not possible to actually confirm the high fighting qualities of the Gr-1. What was done with the damaged aircraft remained unknown. Perhaps, in order to avoid capture by the enemy, the remains of the prototype were completely destroyed.
Pd himself Grushin was sent to work at the plant number XXUMX, where he served as chief engineer and then deputy chief designer S.А. Lavochkin. After the war, he worked on the creation of anti-aircraft missiles and was subsequently awarded the title of twice Hero of Socialist Labor.


TTH:
Modification of Gr-1
Wingspan, m 16.80
Length, m 11.60
Height, m ​​3.88
Wing area, m2 42.00

Weight, kg
empty 5420 aircraft
normal takeoff 7650
1860 / 2550 fuels

Engine type 2 PD AM-37
Power, hp 2 x 1250

Maximum speed km / h
off the ground xnumx
at height 650

Ferry range, km 1890
Practical range, km 1380
Practical ceiling, m 11700

Crew, people 1

Armament:
four 7.62-mm ShKAS machine gun (for 1250 ammo)
two 20-mm guns ShVAK (for 300 cartridges)
Originator:
http://alternathistory.org.ua
36 comments
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  1. Gamdlislyam
    Gamdlislyam 16 November 2013 10: 09
    0
    The plane was not successful. The author, it seems, did not particularly strive to bring it to mind. With the outbreak of war, all work on the aircraft was discontinued.
    1. Alex
      Alex 16 November 2013 14: 05
      +2
      Quote: Gamdlislyam
      The plane was not successful.

      No one can know this, since he did not fly. What happened to the only instance built is in the article (you can also refer to Shavrov).
      1. Gamdlislyam
        Gamdlislyam 17 November 2013 10: 15
        +3
        Dear colleagues, to understand the history of this project (and others like that), you need to understand the situation that prevailed in the aviation industry in the USSR in the prewar years.
        On January 11, 1939, by the Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR “On the Separation of the People’s Commissariat of the Defense Industry of the USSR”, the People’s Commissariat for Aviation Industry (NKAP) of the USSR was formed from the First (aircraft) department of the People’s Commissariat of the Defense Industry of the USSR. People's Commissar appointed Kaganovich Mikhail Moiseevich (brother of the all-powerful member of the Politburo Lazar Moiseevich Kaganovich). With his submission to the NKAP, an interesting situation has developed in the design of aircraft.
        Being at aircraft factories, design teams (previously former branches of various design bureaus) have become virtually independent. The salary of designers (developers of aircraft in this case) was three to five times higher (if they were engaged in the construction of new equipment) than that of the engineering and technical personnel of plants or in other areas of activity. When developing new equipment, large funds were allocated to the plants under the graph - experimental aircraft construction. This led to the fact that almost all design teams at aircraft factories began to develop their own aircraft projects.
        Grushina P.D. appointed the chief designer of the Design Bureau of the Kharkov aircraft plant No. 135 (before that, he worked in a teaching position at the Moscow Aviation Institute and headed the student design bureau there). The main task facing Grushin in Kharkov was to ensure the serial production of BB-135 aircraft, the future close Su-1 bombers, at plant No. 2. At the same time, his new design bureau set about creating a distant single-seat escort fighter DIS-135 (Gr-1).
        The plane in mid-June 1941 was ready for the first flight. But because of the outbreak of war, he was transported for testing in the Moscow Region LII. There, during ground testing of motor installations, the plane was damaged and had to be evacuated to the Urals (Germans approached Moscow), to Perm, where the Kharkov aircraft factory had already been transferred by then. But in Perm it was not possible to prepare the Gr-1 for flights either - in January 1942 the plant was disbanded. Grushin was appointed deputy to Lavochkin and moved to a factory in Gorky. On this the story of this aircraft ends. But then there were myths about the bombed train and burnt design documentation.
    2. StolzSS
      StolzSS 17 November 2013 12: 25
      +1
      You are incorrect. The car didn’t even fly, and you already say which is worse. And okay, Pavel Osipovich Sukhoi would have said such a thing, or who of those great cohorts, and you couldn’t repair such a statement, if it could have been compared to others in the air, then it would have been clear, and since the device is promising, it’s not fate.
      1. Gamdlislyam
        Gamdlislyam 17 November 2013 13: 43
        +1
        Dear colleague Alexander, I did not say that "the car is worse". I wrote that "the plane was not successful."
        During the test, the aircraft first makes jogs on the airfield, then flies up, revealing handling flaws and defects, and only then goes on the first flight.
        In this case, I agree with you that they could not establish what this apparatus is, and Sukhoi P.O., and other Greats, even with some assumptions (and even more so).
        The problems of the DIS-135 (Gr-1) were with motor installations. During one of the motor races, a fire occurred. The plane was seriously damaged. And since the Order of the NKAP soon came out (due to the Germans approaching) to relocate all the prototypes to the East, Grushin’s plane was sent to Perm, where the Kharkov plant and Design Bureau Grushin P.D.
        1. carbofo
          carbofo 18 November 2013 15: 40
          0
          It reminds me of some pretty successful cars.
          De Havilland Mosquito

          American twin-engine fighter Light P-38
  2. svp67
    svp67 16 November 2013 10: 16
    +3
    And it's good that they did not accept ...
    ID Grushin was designed for two liquid-cooled engines AM-37 designed by A.A. Mikulin with a capacity of 1200 hp. According to its aerodynamic design, the aircraft quite closely resembled the then well-known German multipurpose Messerschmitt Bf .110 fighter and had overall dimensions close to it.

    They would have confused and knocked down their own, and history has shown that the engine of the "AM" series went to the "humped" Ilys, burying, for example, the MiG3.
    unlike Messerschmitt, the Gr-1 was single ... Perhaps this decision was somewhat hasty, since the need for a second crew member on vehicles of this class was subsequently confirmed by the war
    Controversially, the "Lights" fought the whole war single-seater ... Here, LTH is very important, especially in terms of maneuverability ...
    1. vanya
      vanya 16 November 2013 12: 00
      -1
      am-35 was put on silt
      1. Bosk
        Bosk 16 November 2013 13: 16
        0
        AM-37 at an altitude of 7000 m. It seems like 1400 horses gave ...
      2. Alex
        Alex 16 November 2013 14: 12
        0
        AM-38. AM-35 were on the MiGs. When they began to mass produce IL-2, the production of engines AM-35 and AM-37 was sacrificed in favor of AM-38. On planes with AM-35, -37 tried to replace them with others. The Tu-2 turned out well, on the MiG - no.
    2. Ilya Klementyev
      Ilya Klementyev 17 February 2020 13: 26
      -1
      instant 3 shit.
      1. svp67
        svp67 17 February 2020 13: 28
        -1
        Quote: Ilya Klementyev
        instant 3 shit.

        Have a personal experience of its operation? Share ...
  3. studentmati
    studentmati 16 November 2013 23: 53
    +3
    The very fact that in the 30-40s in the USSR a large number of aircraft designers were given the practical opportunity to create and bring their products to flight specimens indicates the presence of competition. I leave the topic of repression for another comment.
    In the aircraft industry of modern Russia, with its richest and unique developments of the times of the USSR, there is also competition, but the competition is not ideas and designs, but the competition of money. "He stole, drank, to jail, stole, drank, to jail ..." They just drink and steal, but no responsibility ...
    1. vtur
      vtur 17 November 2013 14: 37
      +1
      And what did we get as a result of such competition by 1941?
      1) The Yak-1 is the first, and, say, not very successful experience in fighters of a young talented designer who proved himself an unprincipled careerist.
      2) Yak-2 - the first and unsuccessful experience of the same designer in creating an analogue of the SB, which, supposedly, flew 100 km / h faster than the last with the same engines. Pasted up after the first wintering.
      3) LaGG-3 - "Royale" - The history of its appearance is known to all and is well described in the literature. I will add that not thanks to, but in spite of the efforts of the leadership of the aviation industry, this ugly duckling turned into a falcon in 1943.
      4) MiG-3 - a crude project of a lightly armed high-altitude interceptor stolen from Polikarpov.
      5) Pe-2 - a high-altitude fighter, which, by the will of the party, became a dive bomber with a low bomb load.
      6) Su-2 - I don’t even know what to say - in general, a good aircraft, but of a specific application.
      7) Er-2 - the brainchild of Bartini, who became "Ermolaev" - an unsuccessful attempt to use diesel engines.
      8) IL-4 - obsolete design, however, this aircraft was the main long-range bomber throughout the war.
      9) Pe-8 - could become an aircraft with outstanding performance characteristics, if the USSR could produce high-altitude engines with a TC for it. Unfortunately, it is very low-tech in production.
      10) IL-2 - without a doubt, an outstanding aircraft. One thing is bad - the low accuracy of the fire and the shooter, which was first removed from the aircraft altogether, putting an additional fuel tank in its place (arrow) in the armored hull, and then returned, but placing it outside the armored hull ...
      And what did not get? At a minimum, I-180/185 and Tu-2 are real aircraft with high performance characteristics that could (or were) in production by 1941.
      I do not want to discredit someone - I just urge you to really look at the events of that time. As an example, at the Gorky plant it was necessary to launch the I-180 into production, and not push its own fighter. Therefore, I would call what was happening then not in competition, but in leapfrog and squandering of resources and folk resources ...
      1. carbofo
        carbofo 19 November 2013 14: 31
        0
        Quote: vtur
        Raw project of a lightly armed high-altitude interceptor stolen from Polikarpov

        At that time it was impossible to steal everything was common, rather, the MiG simply transferred the topic for refinement, or they themselves took it as a basis for refinement.
        In principle, the plane was not bad, in good hands.
        In general, the term steal is quite vague, and for such a fact they could really send it to the bunk, so most likely a maximum of affair for the sake of transferring the project, formally this is the same theft but already legal.
        There was a lot of things there during the Soviet era, if there wasn’t enough trying to rake all the bulldozers.
      2. rubin6286
        rubin6286 19 November 2013 20: 10
        0
        You understand absolutely nothing in aviation if you give such a comment. How can you, who are not familiar with the concept of “party discipline”, write about A.S.Yakovlev in this way. The young aircraft designer (he was only 1939 years old in 33) by the decision of the Politburo of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks was appointed deputy people's commissar of the aviation industry. This was a period when the threat of an impending war required the adoption of urgent measures to strengthen the country's defense, especially since the lag of the USSR from European countries as combat aircraft, which emerged in the mid-30s, was not eliminated. Yakovlev had to be not only an aircraft designer, but also an organizer of the production of new aircraft, aircraft engines, instruments and equipment, materials, in a word, without which there is no aircraft industry as such. With the beginning of the war, under his leadership in the Urals and Siberia, Central Asia and the Far East, aircraft production was established at enterprises evacuated from the European part of the country. To do this was not at all easy, but to do it.
        Mentally put yourself in his place and think about what would happen to you if you could not cope? That's it. Stalin knew whom he set!
  4. Argon
    Argon 17 November 2013 01: 21
    +3
    It is very difficult to say something about this project, in general there is very little information. However, it is obvious that the diagrams and drawings (all existing) are made on the basis of one photograph (presented here), and yet it is far from the fact that it shows an airplane, rather a full-scale mock-up, if not a model on a relatively large scale. It catches the eyes of the disproportionately small engine nacelles, they are not like the AM-37 (35), but the M-105 could hardly have been shoved in (those who are interested can see the photo of Er -2 with a "wide" cockpit (AM-35) or Pe-2). Since the project was originally "institutional", they decided to use some kind of "own" motor installation (in my opinion), most likely based on a serial engine (most likely only M-100), with the installation of a drive compressor on it (the existing photograph of the model belongs to this time) Subsequently, when the project received the status of a state one, this "fantasy" was replaced, most likely by the promising M-106. This conclusion can be drawn from the fact that all twin-enginefighters (experimental) were built for a certain type of engine, and all promising engines were disassembled: Polikarpov (TIS) -M90, Tairov (OKO) -M88, Mikoyan (DIS) -AM37, Petlyakov (I-100) M
    105TK. When the M-106 died convulsively (mid-end 40g), it was replaced by the only one at that time, suitable in power (but not in weight) and produced by the experimental series (but far from being brought to mind) AM-37. Taking into account the weight of the latter , such a step, could not but lead to a radical alteration of the airframe, given the relatively small size of the machine, the next Yak-2 was obtained, this explains the delay in the project and the refusal to carry out further work. Do not forget about the two one-weight competitors, more authoritative authors (TIS and DIS), at the finish line to the series, both relied on AM37 but did not reach it, the war made its own adjustments. And in any case, you should not trust the photo given here. After reading the comments, I would like to try to correct the situation with By the end of the 30s, the USSR had a serial M-34 (TB-3, R-zet, ANT-25 was installed), the engine was mastered by the industry, confidently working out the declared resu pc, however, had a low specific power (the ratio of the mass of the installation to the rated power), which did not meet the requirements of the time. It was decided on its basis to develop a new generation, taking into account physical laws, the work went in two directions: a-high, the future AM-35 ( was installed on the Pe-8, MiG-1, MiG-3) b-normalized, the future AM-38, the main consumer of this engine was the Il-2, On the MiG-3, these engines were installed rather from the absence of 35x than out of a desire to increase the flight characteristics of the fighter, which is indirectly confirmed by the combined operation of the MiG-3 in the regiments (individual squadrons) of the Air Force, without taking into account the type of motor installation. The further development of the a-family (as we called it) was the AM-37, built in experimental series before the beginning of V.O. In less than 50 units were manufactured in the experimental aircraft industry (life tests did not pass), it was not transferred to the series. The next was AM-39.Mikoyan fighters of the 200th family), was not transferred to the series. The last one can be called AM-41, development began in the spring of 44g, 3 samples were made, I have no more information. for modernization-AM38f. The next was the AM-38, the last serial piston engine of this family (installed on the Il-42, Il-1, Il-8, Su-10), it reached the 6hp line.
  5. Moore
    Moore 17 November 2013 09: 02
    +1
    Had Grushin succeeded in time, perhaps he would have made a good lightweight high-speed bomber like "Mosquito"
    1. svp67
      svp67 17 November 2013 10: 20
      +1
      Quote: Moore
      Had Grushin succeeded in time, perhaps he would have made a good lightweight high-speed bomber like "Mosquito"
      Polikarpov would have done better anyway ....

      YEW
      Or his former employee - Mikoyan

      DIS-200 (MiG-5)
      1. Ilya Klementyev
        Ilya Klementyev 17 February 2020 13: 28
        0
        No, not better, but worse.
        1. svp67
          svp67 17 February 2020 13: 29
          -1
          Quote: Ilya Klementyev
          No, not better, but worse.

          Listening to your arguments ... Why? Until 1943, not one of our designers could reach the level of aircraft of Nikolai Nikolayevich ... Experience and talent, you know.
          1. Ilya Klementyev
            Ilya Klementyev 17 February 2020 13: 31
            0
            By LTX compare. The best Soviet fighters of the Second World War are Yaki and Lavochkin. The remaining Migi donkeys and other other hangars were guarded and dusted.
            1. svp67
              svp67 17 February 2020 13: 36
              -1
              Quote: Ilya Klementyev
              By LTX compare.

              What are you comparing LTH? Specify ... The speed of the MiG-3 is better than its "peers"
              Quote: Ilya Klementyev
              The remaining Migi donkeys and other other hangars were guarded and dusted.

              Now you have written what? Is that where you got it from? Surnames Pokryshkin, Safronov Do you know? What planes did they fight on?
              1. Ilya Klementyev
                Ilya Klementyev 17 February 2020 13: 44
                0
                Now you have written what? Is that where you got it from? Surnames Pokryshkin, Safronov Do you know? What planes did they fight on?



                On what they gave and flew, the refusal was equated with betrayal and immediately shot. Many Soviet aces preferred western planes.
                1. svp67
                  svp67 17 February 2020 14: 02
                  0
                  Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                  On what they gave and flew, the refusal was equated with betrayal and immediately shot.

                  You personally saw it, how did you shoot it, and right away?
                  Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                  Many Soviet aces preferred western planes.

                  How old are you? Where did you get such stupidity in your head? But what about your statement:
                  Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                  What was given on that and flew,

                  For the sake of interest, you read about how our pilots spoke about the "harrikeys", the same was an imported car.
                  But our most productive ace, Kozhedub, has never fought on "import" and nothing ... Like the third in the list of our aces - Gulaev
                  1. Ilya Klementyev
                    Ilya Klementyev 27 February 2020 14: 59
                    0
                    [quote] You personally saw it, how was it shot, and right away? [/ quote]

                    Read this order you will find out

                    [quote] [quote] For the sake of interest, read about how our pilots spoke about the "harrikeys", the same was an imported car. [/ quote]


                    And then, if Harrekeyn if he and the British almost did not fly and spoke badly?

                    [quote] But our most productive ace, Kozhedub, has never fought on "import" and nothing ... Like the third in the list of our aces - Gulaev [/ quote] "

                    This is their personal good and tactical quality. The guarantee of victory depends on the speed of engine and aircraft power by 60% and pilot experience by 40%. In specific cases, the experience of Soviet aircraft was one. Read how they prepared before the war.
                    1. Ilya Klementyev
                      Ilya Klementyev 27 February 2020 15: 03
                      0
                      Here's another read http://topru.org/28157/aerokobra-kak-simvol-ubogosti-sovetskogo-aviaproma/
                    2. svp67
                      svp67 27 February 2020 17: 50
                      0
                      Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                      Read this order you will find out

                      That is, you DO NOT KNOW?
                      Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                      And then, if Harrekeyn if he and the British almost did not fly and spoke badly?

                      What you just said is not true. During the Battle of Britain, in the Hurricanes
                      the British shot down more aircraft than on Spitfaers
                      Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                      This is their personal good and tactical quality. The guarantee of victory depends on the speed of engine and aircraft power by 60% and pilot experience by 40%

                      One pilot, in that war already did not decide anything.
                      1. Ilya Klementyev
                        Ilya Klementyev 28 February 2020 20: 34
                        0
                        That is, you DO NOT KNOW?


                        Order No. 270

                        What you just said is not true. During the Battle of Britain, in the Hurricanes
                        the British shot down more aircraft than on Spitfaers


                        Nevertheless, the British did not like this plane

                        One pilot, in that war already did not decide anything.


                        And in battle he could.
                      2. svp67
                        svp67 28 February 2020 20: 46
                        -1
                        Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                        Order No. 270

                        Well, well ... Let's see the order part of the order
                        I order:
                        1. Commanders and political workers who, during a battle, tear off insignia and deserting to the rear or surrender to the enemy, be considered malicious deserters, whose families are to be arrested as oaths and those who have betrayed their homeland deserters.
                        To oblige all senior commanders and commissioners to shoot on the spot such deserters from the commanders.
                        2. The units and subunits that were encircled by the enemy selflessly fight to the last opportunity, to protect the material part, as the eyeball of the eye, to break through to their backs of the enemy troops, defeating the fascist dogs.
                        To oblige each soldier, irrespective of his official position, to demand from a higher commander, if part of him is surrounded, to fight to the last possible opportunity to break through to his own, and if such a commander or part of the Red Army men prefer to surrender to the enemy instead of organizing a rebuff, - destroy they by all means, both ground and air, and the families of the surrendered Red Army soldiers to deprive of state benefits and assistance.
                        3. To oblige commanders and commissars of divisions to immediately dismiss battalion and regiment commandershiding in the cracks during the battle and afraid to lead the battle on the battlefield, demote them as impostors, transfer to rank and file and, if necessary, shoot them in place, putting in place brave and courageous people from junior command personnel or from the ranks of distinguished the Red Army.
                        The order to read in all companies, squadrons, batteries, squadrons, teams and headquarters.


                        Well, where about the pilots who need to be shot at the wing?
                        Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                        And in battle he could.

                        In that war, one pilot had little to decide. Everything was decided by the training and education system, as well as the tactics and organization of the battle. What is great is the same Pokryshkin.
                        By the way, as it was for a long time already sorted out the question of why the "Air Cobra" entered our Air Force so well and revealed its best qualities. And he agreed with the opinion of one of our pilots, who fought on them, that this was facilitated by the fact that in our Air Force there was such an aircraft as the I-16, and in terms of the nature of piloting these aircraft were similar, but the Cobras were certainly superior in performance. So they flew on it like on "donkeys", on the verge ...
                      3. Ilya Klementyev
                        Ilya Klementyev 28 February 2020 20: 59
                        0
                        Well, where about the pilots who need to be shot at the wing?


                        They were shot for not fulfilling the task before 46 or 48 years old, I don’t remember and for desertion therefore I say that they wanted to fly on what and couldn’t give what and fly on. Unless some ace pilots got such chances.




                        In that war, one pilot had little to decide. Everything was decided by the training and education system, as well as the tactics and organization of the battle. What is great is the same Pokryshkin.
                        By the way, as it was for a long time already sorted out the question of why the "Air Cobra" entered our Air Force so well and revealed its best qualities. And he agreed with the opinion of one of our pilots, who fought on them, that this was facilitated by the fact that in our Air Force there was such an aircraft as the I-16, and in terms of the nature of piloting these aircraft were similar, but the Cobras were certainly superior in performance. So they flew on it like on "donkeys", on the verge ...


                        Nevertheless, the symbol of the victory of Soviet aviation against the Nazis in the war was precisely the Aero Cobra Kozhedub.
                      4. svp67
                        svp67 29 February 2020 03: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                        They were shot for not fulfilling the task before 46 or 48 years old, I don’t remember and for desertion therefore I say that they wanted to fly on what and couldn’t give what on and fly

                        This is a lie. If there were any incidents, then they did it before the formation, and during the war it was a penalty battalion, if you are an officer or a fine rot, if an ordinary and sergeant. And after the war, a moratorium on the death penalty was generally introduced.
                        Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                        Nevertheless, the symbol of the victory of Soviet aviation against the Nazis in the war was precisely the Aero Cobra Kozhedub.

                        Well, yes ... you could not bring a more stupid example ...
                        Meet the true "Symbol of Victory" - LA-7 Kozhedub
                      5. Ilya Klementyev
                        Ilya Klementyev 6 March 2020 19: 11
                        -1
                        Well, yes ... you could not bring a more stupid example ...
                        Meet the true "Symbol of Victory" - LA-7 Kozhedub

                        In your dreams.
                      6. svp67
                        svp67 6 March 2020 19: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Ilya Klementyev
                        In your dreams.

                        And in yours?
                        For God's sake, enlighten ... show Kozhedub's "Airacobra"
            2. Ilya Klementyev
              Ilya Klementyev 28 February 2020 20: 55
              0
              Tupolev even once uttered a phrase and said ugly planes do not fly.
  • rennim
    rennim 18 November 2013 11: 16
    0
    Beautiful car.....