Let's honor the Soviet soldiers. They set us free (Česká Pozice, Czech Republic)
Did the Red Army liberate Czechoslovakia in 1945, or was it the beginning of the second occupation? This question was raised in the Czech Republic in connection with the May visit of President Milos Zeman to Moscow. In an interview, historian Jan Němechek speaks out against an anti-historical approach to the events of the end of the Second World War.
ČESKÁ POZICE: Recently here and there you can hear and read that in 1945, there was not liberation, but the beginning of the second occupation - the Soviet one. In a similar vein, Adrian Portmann recently spoke, for example, in an interview with Týden magazine (after the publication of this interview, Portmann stated that the journalist Týden had distorted his words - Ed.). What do you think of such reasoning?
Ian Nemeche: The mentioned theses would not hurt me like that if they sounded from the lips of an ignorant journalist. Then I would get off with just the advice to read the relevant literature and read the documents. But I am sorry that these statements are made by a historian. As a person who, together with colleagues, published 23 large volumes of documents about our stories In the first half of the 20th century, I was touched by the words that Czech historians do not like working with historical sources for too long.
I am sure that colleague Portmann will soon explain his position scientifically, and most importantly, the words “that this was not only liberation — it was also a forced occupation”. These words do not correspond to the historical situation in Czechoslovakia in the spring of the 1945 year (unless they were perceived from the point of view of Czechoslovak Germans who linked their lives to the fate of Nazi Germany).
- Portmann's position is not unique.
- Of course, this position is not unique. For example, Tomasz Klvanya backed her with even sharper judgments. In his opinion, there was no liberation at all - the Red Army simply conquered Czechoslovakia. But who did she conquer her from? Do Nazi Germany? Then the author accepts the thesis that Czechoslovakia was not an occupied country, that it voluntarily became part of the Third Reich. I consider this a completely anti-historical formulation that blackens the memory of all Czechoslovak citizens who sacrificed their lives for the freedom of their homeland. Such an ideological understanding of history presents a distorted picture of events connected with the Second World War.
- Do you admit that those who support such theses operate on rational arguments? Portmann talks about some aspects of the behavior of the Red Army soldiers on our territory, about violence and so on.
- Any stay of such large military formations on the territory of a foreign state, not only Soviet, but, say, American troops, as is known from history, always entails, rather, problems for the population, rather than advantages. Moreover, the simple Russian soldiers of the Red Army, especially its part of the second line, did not understand to which region they were sent, whether it was an enemy country or an allied one. Moreover, in some areas of Czechoslovakia there were many German settlements. And we should not forget one more thing: many of them have passed along the roads of war from Moscow and Stalingrad, in the most difficult conditions that one can imagine.
“But it's true that such topics as rape are on the periphery of the interests of historians.” Why?
- Because historians (as opposed to publicists, who need only a few testimonials) depend on the source base. And in such matters it is very limited, and it is impossible even to infer from it about what numbers in this area one can speak of. For most of the raped women, it was a lifetime trauma that they didn’t want to talk about. In fact, sources are limited to a narrow range of oral evidence and to those cases (also very limited) that have become the subject of investigations. On this basis, we can only say that this was a phenomenon that is typical of all the territories where the Red Army was located (and not only it: read Mary L. Roberts' book War and Desire. Sex and American Soldiers in World War II in France ", which caused a great resonance).
But the Second World War was a terrible conflict, accompanied by horrors that the world had not known until then. And which are still not fully described. But instead of a comprehensive study of the history of occupation and resistance, the problems of that time are considered separately, often according to a fashionable request. What do we know about dozens and hundreds of prisoner-of-war camps, concentration, labor and other Nazi camps and their parts in the protectorate? The last and essentially the only extensive work on this topic was published at the end of the 60-s of the XX century. Why are we not discussing the German massacres recently described by Jiří Padevet in his Bloody Finals?
- And if you put the question like this: did the Soviet troops behave like invaders??
- The question is what we mean by the "behavior of the invaders." This is a question not only of attitude towards the population. A much bigger problem was the question of the so-called trophies, that is, the property of the enemy, which the Soviet Union had the right to seize on the territory of Czechoslovakia. It was originally about enterprises that were rebuilt and belonged to German and Hungarian individuals and legal entities.
But in practice it turned out that the Soviet military authorities did not make large differences between Czechoslovak and enemy property (the problem was the property confiscated by the Nazis from the Jews), and quite a lot of property was taken out of Czechoslovakia, for which the Soviet side had no right according to the Czechoslovak-Soviet on the use of Soviet war trophies in Czechoslovakia from 31 March 1945. In this regard, it would be appropriate to conduct a comparative study of data from different countries that were freed by the Red Army.
- Immediately after the arrival of the Red Army on the territory of Czechoslovakia, there were not so few people - I suspect, the NKVD organs - exported to the USSR. Is it even possible to look at this fact through the prism of occupation?
- I do not think so. It is necessary to pay attention to which categories of people were exported. First of all, these were Soviet citizens who, during the war, joined the ranks of the Russian Liberation Army, parts of which failed to reach the American zone. They were arrested, some of them were shot, and others were taken to the USSR.
Also here are those whom the NKVD bodies wanted to use for espionage work (a classic example is the Gestapo employees). Those who took refuge in interwar Czechoslovakia after the arrival of the new regime in Russia (for example, General Sergei Voitsekhovsky) also came to the center of attention of the Soviet authorities. That is, these were people in whom the Soviet side was extremely interested.
But thanks to a detailed study by Mechislav Borak, today we can give answers to these questions, because the study gives exact figures. All this was not of Czechoslovak specificity - the Soviet authorities applied similar methods in all the territories through which the army passed. The Germans, the Poles, the citizens of the USSR, the Hungarians, the Italians, and the Czechs with the Slovaks were taken out. Most of them went to work in the USSR. Of course, in addition to members of Nazi organizations, Gleinek’s guards, informers, etc., some anti-fascists, as well as military personnel of the Czechoslovak army, were taken out in the USSR.
- There is another popular thesis about the “second occupation”, they say, “the second occupation” began in 1948 year, in February. The mention of 1945 of the year is only an extension of the term "occupation". How do you understand the concept of "occupation"?
- By this concept, I understand the seizure and establishment of domination in the territory of one of the warring parties by the enemy. In February, 1948, the Soviet troops did not enter the territory of Czechoslovakia. It was about the internal affairs of Czechoslovakia.
“But the Soviet Union played a significant role in these events.”
- Yes, he played an important role. But the Red Army left with the American from ČSR at the end of 1945 of the year. The occupation is 21 August 1968, when Czechoslovakia was occupied by Soviet troops along with troops from other Warsaw Pact countries.
- How would you comment, based on your type of argumentation, the question of the “second occupation” of Poland by the Soviet Union?
- Poland perceives this problem differently. For the Poles, this was indeed the second occupation. The Red Army from Poland (unlike Czechoslovakia) no longer left and, together with the NKVD, helped the pro-Soviet government in Warsaw carry out the Sovietization of Poland and eliminate the opponents of communism, in particular the participants of resistance linked to the Polish government in London. Therefore, 8 may not celebrate Poles in May: in Poland this day is not a public holiday.
- When you say that Poland perceives this problem differently, how do you personally look at it?
- As a Czech historian, I can say that I understand the different attitude of my Polish colleagues. The experience of Poland in relations with Russia, or rather with the Soviet Union, obtained in the course of national history, during Polish-Russian (Soviet) contacts and clashes, is diametrically opposed to the experience of Czechoslovakia. This is what determines the differences in view of the events related to the release in 1945.
- I will ask one actual question which, however, is connected with the previous one. Milos Zeman will go to Moscow to celebrate the end of the war. Should he go there?
“The Czech president is going to Moscow as a representative of a state that was occupied by a foreign force during World War II, and most of which was liberated by the Soviet Union. I think it is sad that the current events in Ukraine devalue this fact in the eyes of many people. If he wanted to go in this connection with London or Washington, then, of course, not a word would be said against this visit. We have no right to forget that the liberation of Czechoslovakia killed 140 thousands of Soviet soldiers, and 400 thousands more were injured. And we must honor and thank them.
- Přemysl Houda
- http://ceskapozice.lidovky.cz/ucteme-sovetske-vojaky-osvobodili-nas-dyc-/tema.aspx?c=A150416_104448_pozice-tema_houd
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