Let's honor the Soviet soldiers. They set us free (Česká Pozice, Czech Republic)

23


Did the Red Army liberate Czechoslovakia in 1945, or was it the beginning of the second occupation? This question was raised in the Czech Republic in connection with the May visit of President Milos Zeman to Moscow. In an interview, historian Jan Němechek speaks out against an anti-historical approach to the events of the end of the Second World War.

ČESKÁ POZICE: Recently here and there you can hear and read that in 1945, there was not liberation, but the beginning of the second occupation - the Soviet one. In a similar vein, Adrian Portmann recently spoke, for example, in an interview with Týden magazine (after the publication of this interview, Portmann stated that the journalist Týden had distorted his words - Ed.). What do you think of such reasoning?

Ian Nemeche: The mentioned theses would not hurt me like that if they sounded from the lips of an ignorant journalist. Then I would get off with just the advice to read the relevant literature and read the documents. But I am sorry that these statements are made by a historian. As a person who, together with colleagues, published 23 large volumes of documents about our stories In the first half of the 20th century, I was touched by the words that Czech historians do not like working with historical sources for too long.

I am sure that colleague Portmann will soon explain his position scientifically, and most importantly, the words “that this was not only liberation — it was also a forced occupation”. These words do not correspond to the historical situation in Czechoslovakia in the spring of the 1945 year (unless they were perceived from the point of view of Czechoslovak Germans who linked their lives to the fate of Nazi Germany).

- Portmann's position is not unique.

- Of course, this position is not unique. For example, Tomasz Klvanya backed her with even sharper judgments. In his opinion, there was no liberation at all - the Red Army simply conquered Czechoslovakia. But who did she conquer her from? Do Nazi Germany? Then the author accepts the thesis that Czechoslovakia was not an occupied country, that it voluntarily became part of the Third Reich. I consider this a completely anti-historical formulation that blackens the memory of all Czechoslovak citizens who sacrificed their lives for the freedom of their homeland. Such an ideological understanding of history presents a distorted picture of events connected with the Second World War.

- Do you admit that those who support such theses operate on rational arguments? Portmann talks about some aspects of the behavior of the Red Army soldiers on our territory, about violence and so on.

- Any stay of such large military formations on the territory of a foreign state, not only Soviet, but, say, American troops, as is known from history, always entails, rather, problems for the population, rather than advantages. Moreover, the simple Russian soldiers of the Red Army, especially its part of the second line, did not understand to which region they were sent, whether it was an enemy country or an allied one. Moreover, in some areas of Czechoslovakia there were many German settlements. And we should not forget one more thing: many of them have passed along the roads of war from Moscow and Stalingrad, in the most difficult conditions that one can imagine.

“But it's true that such topics as rape are on the periphery of the interests of historians.” Why?

- Because historians (as opposed to publicists, who need only a few testimonials) depend on the source base. And in such matters it is very limited, and it is impossible even to infer from it about what numbers in this area one can speak of. For most of the raped women, it was a lifetime trauma that they didn’t want to talk about. In fact, sources are limited to a narrow range of oral evidence and to those cases (also very limited) that have become the subject of investigations. On this basis, we can only say that this was a phenomenon that is typical of all the territories where the Red Army was located (and not only it: read Mary L. Roberts' book War and Desire. Sex and American Soldiers in World War II in France ", which caused a great resonance).

But the Second World War was a terrible conflict, accompanied by horrors that the world had not known until then. And which are still not fully described. But instead of a comprehensive study of the history of occupation and resistance, the problems of that time are considered separately, often according to a fashionable request. What do we know about dozens and hundreds of prisoner-of-war camps, concentration, labor and other Nazi camps and their parts in the protectorate? The last and essentially the only extensive work on this topic was published at the end of the 60-s of the XX century. Why are we not discussing the German massacres recently described by Jiří Padevet in his Bloody Finals?

- And if you put the question like this: did the Soviet troops behave like invaders?
?

- The question is what we mean by the "behavior of the invaders." This is a question not only of attitude towards the population. A much bigger problem was the question of the so-called trophies, that is, the property of the enemy, which the Soviet Union had the right to seize on the territory of Czechoslovakia. It was originally about enterprises that were rebuilt and belonged to German and Hungarian individuals and legal entities.

But in practice it turned out that the Soviet military authorities did not make large differences between Czechoslovak and enemy property (the problem was the property confiscated by the Nazis from the Jews), and quite a lot of property was taken out of Czechoslovakia, for which the Soviet side had no right according to the Czechoslovak-Soviet on the use of Soviet war trophies in Czechoslovakia from 31 March 1945. In this regard, it would be appropriate to conduct a comparative study of data from different countries that were freed by the Red Army.

- Immediately after the arrival of the Red Army on the territory of Czechoslovakia, there were not so few people - I suspect, the NKVD organs - exported to the USSR. Is it even possible to look at this fact through the prism of occupation?

- I do not think so. It is necessary to pay attention to which categories of people were exported. First of all, these were Soviet citizens who, during the war, joined the ranks of the Russian Liberation Army, parts of which failed to reach the American zone. They were arrested, some of them were shot, and others were taken to the USSR.

Also here are those whom the NKVD bodies wanted to use for espionage work (a classic example is the Gestapo employees). Those who took refuge in interwar Czechoslovakia after the arrival of the new regime in Russia (for example, General Sergei Voitsekhovsky) also came to the center of attention of the Soviet authorities. That is, these were people in whom the Soviet side was extremely interested.

But thanks to a detailed study by Mechislav Borak, today we can give answers to these questions, because the study gives exact figures. All this was not of Czechoslovak specificity - the Soviet authorities applied similar methods in all the territories through which the army passed. The Germans, the Poles, the citizens of the USSR, the Hungarians, the Italians, and the Czechs with the Slovaks were taken out. Most of them went to work in the USSR. Of course, in addition to members of Nazi organizations, Gleinek’s guards, informers, etc., some anti-fascists, as well as military personnel of the Czechoslovak army, were taken out in the USSR.

- There is another popular thesis about the “second occupation”, they say, “the second occupation” began in 1948 year, in February. The mention of 1945 of the year is only an extension of the term "occupation". How do you understand the concept of "occupation"?

- By this concept, I understand the seizure and establishment of domination in the territory of one of the warring parties by the enemy. In February, 1948, the Soviet troops did not enter the territory of Czechoslovakia. It was about the internal affairs of Czechoslovakia.

“But the Soviet Union played a significant role in these events.”

- Yes, he played an important role. But the Red Army left with the American from ČSR at the end of 1945 of the year. The occupation is 21 August 1968, when Czechoslovakia was occupied by Soviet troops along with troops from other Warsaw Pact countries.

- How would you comment, based on your type of argumentation, the question of the “second occupation” of Poland by the Soviet Union?

- Poland perceives this problem differently. For the Poles, this was indeed the second occupation. The Red Army from Poland (unlike Czechoslovakia) no longer left and, together with the NKVD, helped the pro-Soviet government in Warsaw carry out the Sovietization of Poland and eliminate the opponents of communism, in particular the participants of resistance linked to the Polish government in London. Therefore, 8 may not celebrate Poles in May: in Poland this day is not a public holiday.

- When you say that Poland perceives this problem differently, how do you personally look at it?


- As a Czech historian, I can say that I understand the different attitude of my Polish colleagues. The experience of Poland in relations with Russia, or rather with the Soviet Union, obtained in the course of national history, during Polish-Russian (Soviet) contacts and clashes, is diametrically opposed to the experience of Czechoslovakia. This is what determines the differences in view of the events related to the release in 1945.

- I will ask one actual question which, however, is connected with the previous one. Milos Zeman will go to Moscow to celebrate the end of the war. Should he go there?

“The Czech president is going to Moscow as a representative of a state that was occupied by a foreign force during World War II, and most of which was liberated by the Soviet Union. I think it is sad that the current events in Ukraine devalue this fact in the eyes of many people. If he wanted to go in this connection with London or Washington, then, of course, not a word would be said against this visit. We have no right to forget that the liberation of Czechoslovakia killed 140 thousands of Soviet soldiers, and 400 thousands more were injured. And we must honor and thank them.
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  1. +15
    April 23 2015 04: 52
    I don’t know how it is now, but in Soviet times I lived 3 of the year in a dorm room with Czechs.
    The mentality is approximately the following: yes, evil over the 68 year, yes they consider Russian as the basis for all Slavic languages.
    Regarding the war .. The Czechs and especially the Moravians were not against joining Germany. They worked hard on the 3 Reich (according to some reports, the production of tanks in the Czech Republic exceeded the production in Germany) Well, and also (I ask you not to throw rotten tomatoes strongly), they say shyly to Hitler, for the absence of Jews in the country
    1. +4
      April 23 2015 05: 27
      They are ashamed to blame their cooperation with fascism, shouting about the Soviet occupation for camouflage.
      1. +1
        April 23 2015 08: 59
        Quote: fiction
        They are ashamed to blame their cooperation with fascism, shouting about the Soviet occupation for camouflage.

        -------------------
        In general, then again, on a grain of reasonable thought, a pile of unscientific fabrications ... It looks like the revelations of a "repentant" collaborator ...
      2. P-38
        +5
        April 23 2015 10: 34
        Ours drove tanks to Prague for several days, without stopping. And early in the morning of May 9 they broke into the city. At one of the squares, a German knocked out a T-34 from the Faustpatron, the entire crew was killed. The tank stood and burned, suddenly a woman jumped out of some entrance and threw flowers at the red-hot armor. An hour later, the burning tank was littered with flowers.
        Then they remembered, and now they forgot. It is good that people who call to remember appeared in the Czech Republic itself.
    2. +9
      April 23 2015 09: 23
      On the territory of Czechoslovakia, 30% of all weapons of the Third Reich were produced, and at the same time, there was not a single case of sabotage recorded! That's it .. We worked wonderfully, and our people were killed with this weapon, how much we lost in the war 28 million; then, 9 million were killed with weapons manufactured in Czechoslovakia .. Yes, for one thing the USSR had to take control of Czechoslovakia forever, having carried out a very tough reading off and forcing to pay debts for many decades, so let someone imagine what would happen to a country that contributed to the destruction of 9 million Anglo-Saxons? And for 68 years they are offended, and this was a repeated betrayal, that's what the policy of forgiveness and non-collection of debts leads to ..
      pc: With the ruin, we step on the same rake .. understand and forgive ..
      1. 0
        April 23 2015 21: 25
        Czechoslovakia was generally the forge of the Third Reich. But this fact does not bother Chekhonians themselves at all. Unfortunately, over the centuries they have been formatted so that they cannot count on fraternal Slavic feelings.

        From 2003 to 2004, he lived there and learned this fact through bitter experience.

        Hand on heart, I’ll say - it’s a rotten nation ... At the same time with us - there are only a few bright and pure souls, and there are not many of them.
    3. 0
      April 23 2015 10: 09
      the last line in Russia would apply
    4. +1
      April 23 2015 10: 19
      Even the French refused to produce tanks and produced only trucks, Czechs for the Germans produced any weapons.
      1. +1
        April 23 2015 12: 14
        Quote: XYZ
        Even the French refused to produce tanks and produced only trucks, Czechs for the Germans produced any weapons.

        The Czech Republic after "Munich" was part of the Reich, unlike France, how could she say "no" ???
  2. +5
    April 23 2015 05: 10
    What is happening now in Europe has already been repeatedly. And it always ends in new blood. Rewriting historical facts in favor of another economic and political leader country leads to a new war for resources or markets. In short, the economy requires war.
    But in the modern version, the Europeans are betting on the wrong horse, the one that wins the race on another continent, in Asia.
    1. +1
      April 23 2015 05: 19
      Quote: domokl
      But in the modern version, the Europeans are betting on the wrong horse, the one that wins the race on another continent, in Asia.

      So they fled to the Asian Infrastructure Bank almost all together. They feel the near end of the hegemon. wassat
      Yes, and Frau Merkel sang the old song about the single economic zone from Lisbon to Vladivostok. This is ju-ju-ju july!
      Greetings, Alexander! hi
  3. +4
    April 23 2015 05: 16
    In difficult times, everyone looks to Russia as a savior. But why at other minutes they are looking in the wrong direction? Yes, because we do not promise all sorts of benefits, but only a peaceful life. And then yourself. But not everyone can.
  4. +16
    April 23 2015 05: 28
    The Czechs split today. Even the older generation is heterogeneous. I once went to an operation in Prague. I'm sitting in a line at the reception. Granny takes me. Well, that’s all, I think, the nagging complaints will begin now, they say the occupation and all that. Naturally, when asked where I come from. My answer is Russian. She tells me: - For the first time in my life, I tried chocolate and the hands of a Russian soldier. He pulled our children out of the basement and gave each of the children something in their hands.
    When I left her, she told me that she would never forget these moments, that only the Russians were given by nature such an attitude towards others, despite the horrors that the Russians themselves experience. I admit, I wanted to adopt a granny ....
    There are friends who have party cards and did not change their views. One of them speaks to them when talking about occupation with his young relatives. Like you do not understand sheep, what is occupation. The occupier, he does not knock on the door, he does not ask, he does not talk. The occupier just opens your gate with your foot and takes everything that he needs. But this is the old guard, which even when swallowing beer does not confuse the shore. Young people are in prostration. The struggle for minds continues even within this small country.
    1. 0
      April 23 2015 21: 32
      I must admit that you were lucky and I envy you, humanly.

      In Prague, in 2003, I came across an elderly uncle who turned out to be the son of a Russian White Guard officer. He said to me: "I am Russian and I sympathize with you, but God forbid you here, in Prague, on the street, to speak Russian. Everyone here is angry at us for 1968, and some of them are ready to break the Russian man into pieces. ".

      It was because of the bestial attitude towards my Fatherland and my compatriots that in 2004 I spat on everything, sold my 4-room apartment in Rudnits nad Labem and returned to the States, where I still live. I regret one thing - I would know in what stinking garbage dump - Chesland - I was going to move, I would then stay in America in 2003.

      I hate critters! am
  5. +8
    April 23 2015 05: 49
    "Zlata Prague, beauty of Prague,
    Moscow's Golden Friend "- I suppose they forgot ...
  6. 3axap
    +3
    April 23 2015 05: 56
    We all know the expression that history doesn’t like the word - if. But sometimes, after some politician gets stuck, one wants to say; Why, why did we release you? It was necessary that Hitler would humiliate and kill you for another 3,5,8,10 years. Ungrateful. And you understand that the story does not correspond, it is what it is. And in this story, our Grandfathers and Great-Grandfathers, nevertheless freed Europe from the fascist yoke. And even if not on their behalf, but from us they will hear words of gratitude and respect. hi
    1. +4
      April 23 2015 06: 14
      We must always say: not from the fascist, but from the Nazi. And then I look recently ceased to speak German. As a child, when we played war, we just spoke German. So in the Second World War it was - our soldiers a little that shouted: Germans!
      1. 0
        April 23 2015 06: 42
        We must always say: not from the fascist, but from the Nazi

        Then from the fascist European yoke under the control of Germany
        In other European countries, fascists were no less than among the Germans.
      2. -5
        April 23 2015 07: 51
        Quote: Goha
        not from the fascist, but from the Nazi.

        The dullness of this term, so beloved by Soviet propaganda, has always astounded. Very similar to modern Russian terrorist.
    2. 0
      April 23 2015 12: 16
      Quote: 3axap
      .Ungrateful. And you understand that the story does not correspond, it is what it is. And in this story, our Grandfathers and Great-Grandfathers, nevertheless freed Europe from the fascist yoke. And even if not on their behalf, but from us they will hear words of gratitude and respect.

      The author of the article is not a Czech, but a Pole. What are the claims?
  7. +3
    April 23 2015 06: 15
    The Czechs sometimes like to recall that Soviet soldiers were boundless in 1968. Although in fact there fought more fighters of the National People's Army of the GDR. Behind a sidelong glance, they immediately beat the butt in turnips. And in some settlements where their commandant’s offices were located, they shot the violators after a curfew.
  8. +2
    April 23 2015 06: 21
    Yes, their occupation continues, the European Union! Half of the industry belongs to the frizzy! That is where the thoughts and the European census of history grow.
    1. 0
      April 23 2015 21: 43
      Yes, more than half - Skoda, Hornbach ... Almost all large enterprises and retail chains ...
  9. +6
    April 23 2015 06: 21
    These squeals about the Soviet occupation are already zadolbali. If you adhere to this point of view, then the Americans are still the invaders of Japan, Germany, and Italy, etc. Where, about this, squeals and lamentations? I didn’t think that I would become like that, but in the light of recent events in Ukraine (I can’t write this letter with a capital letter), I just hated our little brothers to heartburn. With the Anglo-Saxons, everything is clear. We were, are and will be enemies. But so much shit to endure from fraternal peoples, I already do not have enough nerves. But kakly break all records, at first they carry vomit against Russia, then they look for work for us. This is what moral hat and need to be freed (from the word ur r d).
    1. +1
      April 23 2015 21: 47
      I fully support !!!

      Not fraternal, but bl ... kie ...

      Previously, all the so-called "Slavic" ethnic groups were Russians, and then they began to reformat and turn them into non-Russians. All these pshek, Chekhonians, Croats ... Only the Serbs managed to preserve the Russian soul, although not completely. For this, our eternal "Western partners" are flattening them ...
  10. +5
    April 23 2015 06: 27
    Today I am drawn to sayings: - "Do not do good deeds, you will not get even evil."

    Polish troops enter Czechoslovakia under the Munich Agreement of 1938.
    1. +5
      April 23 2015 06: 37
      WHERE THE YELLOW CHEKOV ABOUT POLISH OCCUPATION ??????
      1. -1
        April 23 2015 07: 53
        Quote: Siberian 1975
        WHERE THE YELLOW CHEKOV ABOUT POLISH OCCUPATION ??????

        Teshinsky conflict was settled in 1958. Why yell something?
        1. +3
          April 23 2015 08: 43
          How is it "why yell something"? How many times have we apologized to a gobat with a wrestling drunk for everything that was and was not? And all the claims have not been removed. So let them scream.
          1. -1
            April 23 2015 08: 55
            Quote: Sibiryak 1975
            So let them scream.

            In fact, the Czechs are going to give Poland 368 hectares as a territorial debt that arose in 1958. So the situation is exactly the opposite, comrade.
            1. +2
              April 23 2015 10: 44
              Then let the Poles scream laughing
  11. 0
    April 23 2015 06: 52
    there was no liberation at all - the Red Army simply conquered Czechoslovakia

    Then, logically, those who say this believe that the Germans in Czechoslovakia were legally. It's simple - more than one generation has grown up with the Nazi accomplices, brought up in the same spirit as their grandfathers.
  12. +2
    April 23 2015 07: 13
    Czechs from bell to bell worked for the German war machine, in fact, as the most ardent allies and the right to confiscation of the USSR was unequivocal. Now in the Czech Republic all means of production belong to the Germans and the Anglo-Saxons and this is considered freedom, freedom from property.
  13. +3
    April 23 2015 08: 25
    The article concerns the Czech Republic, but the question of Poland was also raised:
    - How would you comment, based on your type of argumentation, the question of the “second occupation” of Poland by the Soviet Union?
    - Poland perceives this problem differently. For the Poles, this was indeed the second occupation. The Red Army from Poland (unlike Czechoslovakia) no longer left and, together with the NKVD, helped the pro-Soviet government in Warsaw carry out the Sovietization of Poland and eliminate the opponents of communism, in particular the participants of resistance linked to the Polish government in London. Therefore, 8 may not celebrate Poles in May: in Poland this day is not a public holiday.
    and here on the topic of the liberation of Poland there is an interesting reference:
    REFERENCE
    about losses in personnel, weapons, military equipment and expenditure of material means by the Soviet Armed Forces during the liberation of Poland

    For the liberation of Poland from July 1944 to March 1945, the troops of the 3, 2, 1-th Belorussian, 1-th and 4-th Ukrainian fronts took part, as well as the Baltic Fleet.
    In total, the listed fronts at 1 January 1945 included 3 246 000 Soviet soldiers and officers and about 80 000 soldiers and officers of the 1 Army of the Polish Army.
    During the operation to liberate Poland, the Soviet Army suffered the following losses:
    - in people - irrevocable - 477 295 people, sanitary - 1 636 165 people, total - 2 113 460 people;
    - on airplanes - 2692 units, worth 963 620 000 rubles .;
    - in tanks and self-propelled guns - 2966 units, worth 688 557 000 rubles .;
    - in artillery weapons - 3960 units, worth 714 896 030 rubles .;
    - in vehicles - 7605 units, worth 100 385 000 rubles .;
    During the operation, the following was spent:
    - Ammunition 69 161 wagons, cost 10 319 000 000 rub .;
    - Aerial bombs - 27 412 tons, worth 137 060 000 rubles .;
    - aviation cartridges and shells - 24 792 tons, cost 137 196 000 rubles .;
    - fuel and lubricants - 992 906 tons, cost 697 666 000 rub .;
    - medical property on 150 000 000 rub.
    Losses of the Baltic Fleet:
    - people - 560 people;
    - aircraft - 129, cost 167 700 000 rub .;
    - armored boats - 10 units worth 13 000 000 rubles .;
    - submarines - 1, cost 18 000 000 rub.
    The costs of restoring Polish railways during the 1944 - 1945 period amounted to 211 335 000 rubles.
    In addition, 12 billion rubles were spent on the maintenance of the personnel of the Soviet troops participating in the liberation of Poland, its food and clothing allowance and utility costs.
    Thus, the total cost of arms and material resources in monetary terms for the period of the liberation of Poland is 26 720 959 thousand rubles.
    Colonel General Pokrovsky
    12th of November 1956.
    (see TsAMO USSR, f. 15, op. 725588, d. 30).
    At the time of the liberation, Czechoslovakia was certainly territorially smaller than Poland, but I do not think that the losses of the Soviet Union during the liberation of Czechoslovakia were much smaller. So all of Europe owes Russia (as the legal successor of the USSR) for the liberation from fascism by the grave of life, like the land of a collective farm.
  14. -2
    April 23 2015 08: 33
    In fact, the Red Army it was the Red Army of Angels, and so it is necessary to interpret the actions of this army during WWII.
    1. -1
      April 23 2015 08: 47
      Quote: alfons xv
      it was the Red Army of Angels

      pbc
      1. -3
        April 23 2015 09: 25
        but not in this form of the Red Angels bearing freedom and peace
      2. -1
        April 23 2015 09: 25
        but not in this form of the Red Angels bearing freedom and peace
        1. 0
          April 23 2015 21: 53
          Psheks are jackals of Geyropa. They hate everything Russian - in the blood.
  15. +1
    April 23 2015 09: 08
    To insult the memory of their ancestors, spit in the well from which your descendants will drink ...
  16. +1
    April 23 2015 13: 59
    Those who blame our Victory - after all, they are not winners, they, on the other hand, work for it.
    And we won the Great Patriotic War. So let them go to the bathhouse ...

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