Military Review

Central Asia: a stumbling block or a ground for strengthening allied relations?

47
Among publicists of quite a certain type of activity, a fashion has recently emerged to “embroil” Russia and China. Say, the same Central Asia is an excellent occasion to arrange at least an ideological struggle for influence between the two Eurasian colossi. In fact, the cultures of both countries are strikingly different; they largely pursue different interests. But there is also the fact that they are rallying, so it is unprofitable for anyone to start a fire in the region.



Change of partners

Russia historically was the main geopolitical player in Turkestan. The territories that compactly formed the center of the Eurasian continent were the key to access to the same China, India and Arab countries. The first contacts between our country and numerous local khanates date back to the 16 century. From this moment begins the continuous accession of the arid Asian lands to the Russian Empire.

The doctrine of tsarism, if I may say so, presupposed the continuous Russification of the new states. In Central Asia, this process was rather soft, but by the beginning of the 20 century, most of the local residents were able to speak quite well in Russian. From a moral point of view, the advancement of Russian troops in the region was fully justified: the so-called “big game” was in progress, during which Russia and Britain figured out who would dominate the vast steppe spaces. If someone does not know, then our glorious warriors at least did not lose, having staked out the lands up to the Pamirs. Then, however, diplomatic negotiations began, during which our delegation made significant concessions, but this is a different matter. история.

After several years of chaos, Russians returned to the Caucasus and Central Asia, now as representatives of Soviet Russia. During this period, the industry, culture and major trade relations of the region were entirely connected with the northern partners. You can also say that it was the Russians who gave statehood to Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan. During the Great Patriotic War, Asian soldiers fought bravely for their common homeland and did not let them down - the Kazakhs especially distinguished themselves. In general, the presence of Russian influence here significantly limited the level of crime and drug trafficking, which the region is now so famous for.

But the collapse of the Soviet Union brought about irreversible changes. Partly with the exception of Kazakhstan, the rest of the countries decided to continue along the lines of the “senior partner”, whom Russia has ceased to be. States could become a partner. In the nineties and zero, Central Asian leaders actively mastered American grants and learned how to democratize society (or simply kept their people in a vice, which the overseas partners didn’t find fault with - it was enough that they actually worked on them). But over time, a third person intervened in the eternal opposition of the Great Russians and the Anglo-Saxons — the mighty China in the new communist guise.

Continuous expansion

The disappearance of the USSR from the political map of the world largely went to China in those years. The United States was building up its ties as a strong partner, almost without being offended by Tiananmen, the world was beginning to use goods from the Middle Kingdom, and this was good for everyone. And just after the emergence of the sovereign Russian Federation, a vacuum was formed in the political field of Asia, which was urgently required to fill.

The Americans could seize this region, plunder it, conduct several punitive military operations to destroy the civilian population and establish "democratic" control over the former Turkestan. But they would not have lasted long here. They could not understand the psychology of Central Asian society as China did. That is why he became his main political partner.

Today, the concept of “soft power” used by our Chinese comrades provides a continuous stream of money and contracts on the one hand, and natural resources with political concessions on the other. Without entering its troops and acting with the utmost care, China established ideal partnerships with Kyrgyzstan, invested tens of billions of dollars in Uzbekistan and Tajikistan, concluded an important gas supply agreement with Turkmenistan, and even reached Kazakhstan, giving Naznarbayev $ Billions of political preferences. It is important to understand that China will not stop by itself: it is an ally who is not accustomed to renounce its own interests and act "at random". But there are other methods.

Anti-Americanism and Central Asia

The interests of Russia and China really overlap directly in the region. But there is another power that has lagged behind the course of action and is eager to get even for it. As you may have guessed, we are talking about the United States of America, whose political leaders have changed the concept of external influence. Now color revolutions like the “Arab Spring” are taking place. Suffice it to recall the overthrow of Bakiyev in 2010: how cleverly overseas political consultants played on the ethnic and social contradictions of the people of Kyrgyzstan! This should not happen again.

I think that both Russian and Chinese diplomats are well aware that in the event of contention, the American democratizers will immediately come forward for positions that the dispute will go to. They still have plenty of leverage to influence the local population, which is especially true of the Internet and public organizations.

Perhaps, Russia and China should conclude a key agreement in the history of the region, which will allow it to develop peacefully and painlessly, without any unrest and social aggravations. This may be a line through the zones of influence - it is important to understand that in addition to Kazakhstan and, possibly, Kyrgyzstan, we now have practically no influence in Central Asia. And Nazarbayev often prefers solo to the orchestra, which is proved by his position in strengthening Eurasian integration. We have no better allies than those that we have, but you can play a good game with them. You can simply agree to cooperate in a peaceful manner, so that it is mutually beneficial both for the region and for our countries.

China, in any case, will continue its political expansion, increasing the dependence of Central Asia on its money tranches. The only question is, will we join this expansion, will we regulate it and will we get our part from Central Asia - or the great achievements of our soldiers, the plans of generals and the cultural achievements of Russian teachers will remain in the past, and we will say goodbye to Central Asia forever.

PS Anyway, the US is losing its influence in the region, and this is evident even in the comparison of America’s trade relations with countries in different years: they are now smaller and narrower than in the nineties. Let's see what the matter will turn out further - we have enough political and economic interests in Central Asia, which Russia should be able to protect.
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  1. blizart
    blizart April 2 2015 06: 39
    +22
    but by the beginning of the 20 century, most of the local residents were able to speak Russian reasonably well.
    Well, I think the Russians will be interested to know how things are now. I serve in the most "non-Russian" region of Kazakhstan. Part is deployed to a higher-level unit, i.e. there is an influx of replenishment mainly from the BIG hinterland, and all these conditions make it possible to make a kind of sociological cut, for the basis of which I take knowledge of the Russian language.
    They don’t know at all - No more than 5%
    They know poorly - about 20%
    Average knowledge - 50%
    They know well - 20%
    Media - 5%
    And this will be repeated in the outback of the south of Kazakhstan. Whether everything is optimistic for you, judge for yourself. I think, given your complete inaction in this area, everything is not so bad so far (keyword so far).
    whether we will regulate it and whether we will receive our part from Central Asia - or the great achievements of our soldiers, the plans of the generals and the cultural achievements of Russian teachers will remain in the past, and we will say goodbye to Central Asia forever.
    So this statement is more than relevant, especially for us.
    P.S. It is necessary to start with the Russian mass culture, the quality of which is very low, but among the Kazakhs it is even lower and therefore they are watching and getting better. Well, how to catch up, tady oh
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. siberalt
      siberalt April 2 2015 16: 29
      0
      The unstable "underbelly" of Kazakhstan. Maybe Nazarbayev was right that he moved the capital from there. winked
      1. Kasym
        Kasym April 2 2015 20: 31
        +4
        blizart. I served in 1987-1989, and so, the ratio was approximately the same among Kazakhs in terms of knowledge of Russian. yaz .. From the auls the guys did not know Russian well or at all. lang. and in the army, they "pulled up" him in two years.
        For Russians, I would also give facts for reflection. There are now approximately 25% of Slavs in Kazakhstan. And there are about 50% of Russian schools, and there are many Kazakhs studying there. Because in the future, parents try, under certain conditions, to send their child to study abroad. Popular Russian universities in Moscow, St. Petersburg, Tomsk, Novosibirsk, Omsk. Our main universities are located in Alma-Ata, Astana is catching up. So, for example, residents of Aktobe prefer to go to the Russian Federation, and not to Alma-Ata or Astana. The figure passed up to 20 people. study abroad. Of these, there are about 000 in the PRC (among them there are a lot of Dungans and Uighurs). In the Russian Federation, according to my estimates, it is 2 times more. Another fact about schools. 000 schools teach in Ukrainian, Uyghur, Tajik. and Uzbek languages. In over a hundred schools, 4 languages ​​are additionally taught as a main subject. minorities of Kazakhstan. In addition to Russian. and kaz. theaters are German., Cor., Uygursk. and Uzbek nat. theaters (the first three are the only ones in the CIS). For example, a new theater was built in Chimkent, and the Russian Drama was given to the old one on the square. Theater. "If a country builds theaters, then it develops successfully."
        That is, in cultural and educational terms, we have not far fled from Russia.
        Now on economics. Here's what's interesting. In my opinion, neither the PRC has rushed here (in Central Asia), but we began to establish relations. For instance. Silk Road. This idea came up for the first time not in Beijing, but here in Central Asia. Kazakhstan took out a loan in Japan and started building railway infrastructure on the border (my friend worked at this Japanese company, I remember at the invitation I went with them to Issyk-Kul to relax). It was only in the early 2000s that the PRC began to understand what prospects it promises. And now NAS is touted as the most "far-sighted and wise" politician. And it was he who ran during the EBN between Moscow and Beijing, building bridges (the National Academy of Sciences met with them separately 3 times more often than they did between China and the Russian Federation). And GDP immediately understood the role of China and what prospects are opening up in Asia for the Russian Federation. It was the NAS that ran through the pipelines in the PRC when the first Ukrainian gas war broke out, and the Russian Federation only began to work on this since 2010. Already one oil and two gas pipes have been thrown there (due to this, we began to gasify our south).
        1. Kasym
          Kasym April 2 2015 20: 32
          +4
          And now from the PRC side we will see. When they were offered the Shell Path (1993), they did not even lift a finger. But they realized that trade could greatly increase the XUAR. In 1993 at the first cultural delegation (the circus and our theater went there) that Urumqi (the capital of the XUAR) stood in clay huts (the delegation went there three days !!! I got there) - and now !? China simply could not neglect CA, because on the border live a whale. Uyghurs (XUAR). If they could not establish relations with the countries of Central Asia, then this would threaten to have to build fences on the border - God forbid, weapons would come to the Uyghurs. So China was vitally important to establish relations with the countries of Central Asia. All this served as a starting point.
          The PRC is a financial bag for us and a market for its raw materials. But we must pay tribute - the Chinese listen to our problems and needs. Of those 30 billion that is stated in the article, only 10 go to raw materials projects, the rest to industrial projects. We criticized them for investing only in raw materials projects. They had about 30-33% in our oil industry, now 25% (old fields). But the main thing for them, I think, is URANUS. 50% of all uranium raw materials are bought by the Chinese, the Russian Federation - 20%, the rest for other countries (Japan, France, England, etc.). That is, for us, the PRC has become one of the main trading partners (2nd place; 1-EU, 3-EAEU). Moreover, the PRC and the EAEU are approximately at the same level. Interestingly, the Russian Federation is the only country for Kazakhstan where we sell less than we buy (Germany with varying success). Kazakhstan has high hopes for the transit of cargo flows, so we have been building transit corridors for a long time. Plans: 2016 delivery of the PRC-Europe autobahn, the railway is ready and continues to develop, the airports are engaged, a project of a high-speed railway line Beijing-Urumqi-Alma-Ata-Astana-Moscow is being prepared (a grandiose project). From this I see that in Central Asia and all our neighbors (China and the EAEU), these highways and all sorts of pipelines will have to reckon with Astana. And whoever says that the PRC will go to war with the ROK does not understand the local realities. The PRC needs this last. Because the Chinese run the risk of losing what I wrote here, and moreover, there may be a threat of the XUAR spalling off. Therefore, the Chinese and the Russian Federation benefit from the "calm" development of Central Asia.
          Even if the Russian Federation invested in Central Asia in the same way as in Ukraine (up to 9 billion per year), then the economy. a rapprochement between Central Asia and China would have been inevitable. Because there are the main markets for us. RF does not need to panic in this matter, tk. Central Asia sees it as a guarantor of SECURITY and a transit country for the main export goods to the EU. Well, you don't even need to worry about the Republic of Kazakhstan - the EAEU did not invent the National Academy of Sciences for this purpose, so that later it would "burst" into China. Historically, Russia is always closer than the PRC - a Kazakh would rather fraternize with a Russian than with a Chinese (they have always been enemies for us - it's time to "tie"). hi
  2. Zymran
    Zymran April 2 2015 07: 10
    +16
    . In Central Asia, this process went quite smoothly, but by the beginning of the 20 century, most of the local residents were able to speak Russian reasonably well.


    Bullshit. (c) Massive command of the Russian language came only with the Soviet regime.

    Quote: blizart
    P.S. It is necessary to start with the Russian mass culture, the quality of which is very low, but among the Kazakhs it is even lower and therefore they are watching and getting better. Well, how to catch up, tady oh


    Russian mass culture is currently a bad copy of a foreign one.
    1. blizart
      blizart April 2 2015 07: 21
      +6
      Russian mass culture is currently a bad copy of a foreign one.
      Point addition
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. siberalt
        siberalt April 2 2015 16: 33
        0
        And where does the musculature. Maybe an example of Ukraine for at least someone from the former united will be a lesson?
    2. makarick
      makarick April 2 2015 08: 49
      +7
      In Uzbekistan, the situation is almost the same with respect to Russian mass culture. Russia pays very little attention to this issue, while those Slavic cultural centers that are open (led by local revolving Russians) are mainly engaged in making money, in particular on entering Russian universities. . no cultural program exists in principle (everything may be fine on paper). On the part of local authorities, pressure is not exerted on the national centers, and sometimes even vice versa, they are very strictly monitored.
    3. bekjan
      bekjan April 2 2015 13: 37
      0
      In Kyrgyzstan, Russian could be expressed only in a few regions in the north of the country, where a relatively large number of the Russian population lived.
      1. Egor65g
        Egor65g April 2 2015 15: 42
        +1
        It’s not true, everywhere they understood Russian. They spoke a little worse in the south.
  3. saag
    saag April 2 2015 08: 00
    +2
    "... Perhaps Russia and China should conclude a key agreement in the history of the region, which will allow it to develop peacefully and painlessly, without any unrest and social aggravation. This can be drawing a line along the zones of influence."

    I wonder what the Russian Federation should give in this time to China?
    1. Semurg
      Semurg April 2 2015 08: 44
      +9
      Quote: saag
      "... Perhaps Russia and China should conclude a key agreement in the history of the region, which will allow it to develop peacefully and painlessly, without any unrest and social aggravation. This can be drawing a line along the zones of influence."

      I wonder what the Russian Federation should give in this time to China?

      already conceded. simple example of roads and infrastructure. List what roads or oil, gas pipelines, etc., etc. have been built recently to improve communication between Sr. Asia and the Russian Federation? Almost everything that is being built in this area is all for the good of the Celestial Empire. For example, they are already building or have just built in our country the second Khorgos railway crossing and the economic zone on the border, the Western China-Europe highway, three gas pipelines, one oil pipeline, a fiber-optic superhighway, investments in natural resources and enterprises are a separate song and this is the case goes on increasing, and so on in all republics. If he is able to take the whole of Central Asia, why would he share with the Russian Federation, the more and more the Russian Federation itself is more and more falling under the influence of the dragon (the power of Siberia, Vosto, Altai, 50% share in the gas fields of Eastern Siberia and probably in Arctic projects in the future). Well, the "big game" of RI with England is history, and today's China is the present and possibly the future. The EAEU, in my opinion, is an attempt to somehow turn this vector on the part of the Russian Federation (GDP considers the collapse of the USSR to be the largest geo-political mistake) and diversification on the part of the Republic of Kazakhstan (the National Academy of Sciences does not like to keep all eggs in one basket), although it has not yet given a win, but only songs with a tambourine about a bright future.
      1. bekjan
        bekjan April 2 2015 13: 43
        0
        More than half of the state debt of the CIS countries in Central Asia belongs to the Celestial Empire. Central Asia becomes the "economic colony" of the "Dragon".
      2. kyznets
        kyznets April 2 2015 14: 45
        +1
        And why Russia Kazakhstan? With our 140 million people, having our own resources and vast areas. Russia has a place to invest, and at home - the sea is poured - from the Baltic and the Black Sea with the Sea of ​​Azov to the Pacific Ocean. Of course, it is beneficial for Kazakhstan to have Russia hang out with China for him, and from this he will eat the fish further along the text of the saying. Russia does not need neighboring territories, resources are also not needed, everything has its own. It is time for Kazakhstan to think about its future and make a choice. If he sees his future with China, then go ahead. Only China is not Russia, EVERYTHING IT GIVES BECAUSE WILL BE RETURNED WITH INTEREST. This is where one needs to think whether Kazakhstan is ready to become the province of China in the future, and not the fact that it is equal, as was part of the USSR? Long play on the conflicting interests of the two neighboring empires will not work.
        1. Semurg
          Semurg April 2 2015 15: 31
          +5
          Why was the Crimea needed? And the modern capitalist RF is not the USSR. Moreover, in the USSR, in addition to gingerbread and a stick, the Kazakhs had enough. Well, your choice is either we are humane Russia, or misanthropic China is a pearl from the agitprom. Or are you there in the "besieged fortress" and are going to conflict with China? And Che has already become an empire of the Russian Federation with a population of 140 million? Something I have not heard such a statement of the question from the leadership of Ros. Federation laughing . Or is it your personal visions, like Mazarin and the haberdasher is power and we will save France laughing .
          1. kyznets
            kyznets April 3 2015 16: 38
            +1
            Crimea has always been Russian. And Crimea is not Kazakhstan. What hurt you, Semurg? That you were offered to make a choice yourself, and not rushed to defend the advantages of Russia, not persuaded you? Or, what is the overwhelming majority of Russians not interested in Kazakhstan with its wealth? Or what Russia called an empire, so it was and will be an empire. I don't see anything bad in this. They have earned them for several centuries. And about philanthropy or hatred of man, I did not write a word, what manners, my words and bad thoughts to attribute. And getting personal is also not a sign of good upbringing, I'm not a haberdasher, but a blacksmith. And you have already called Russia a "besieged fortress". We are not going to conflict with China, especially because of people like you, Semurg. With Crimea, we took our own, as it does not spoil your appetite and sleep. By the way, Russia became an empire when the population was much less than one hundred million. And Kazakhstan entered it voluntarily, itself. Did they give you a stick in the USSR, Semurg, in addition to gingerbread? And the Russians were not given? This is generally a long story, too lazy to argue, and it's useless. How to live side by side and for good with people like you Semurg? You need to be simpler and kinder to people, then it will be easier for everyone to live.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. QWERTY
        QWERTY April 2 2015 16: 30
        -3
        What kind of beast is this "fiber-optic SUPERMINE"? Does not one cable lie (hang), but two? What is its supernaturalness?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. bekjan
      bekjan April 2 2015 13: 39
      +1
      The Chinese and Arabs are one of the few nations that it’s better not to mess with, even if they’re contacted, you need to consider that they stick a knife in the back at the most inopportune moment.
  4. Tungus
    Tungus April 2 2015 08: 12
    +6
    In my opinion, cultural integration between Russia and Kazakhstan continues to develop at the grassroots level, according to neighborly friendship. State policy in this direction is not clearly visible. However, I would like to note the wisdom of N. Nazarbayev in building good neighborly relations with Russia.
  5. Nomad
    Nomad April 2 2015 09: 13
    +11
    "We can also say that it was the Russians who gave statehood to Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan."
    Okay, this time we will not raise discussions on the topic that the Russians and the Soviet government are not the same thing. )))
    1. bazilio
      bazilio April 2 2015 09: 54
      +3
      Quote: Nomad
      "We can also say that it was the Russians who gave statehood to Kazakhstan, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan and Kyrgyzstan."
      Okay, this time we will not raise discussions on the topic that the Russians and the Soviet government are not the same thing. )))

      and we will not talk about how this statehood was "granted"
  6. Yeraz
    Yeraz April 2 2015 10: 25
    0
    I will never believe that by the end of the 20 century the majority owned Russian.
    1. Bombardier
      Bombardier April 2 2015 10: 55
      +3
      Quote: Yeraz
      I will never believe that by the end of the 20 century the majority owned Russian.

      They explained quite well (we won’t talk about grammar and cases - not every Russian is literate here), but in the cities you can say all 100% could speak Russian, and some spoke without any accent and were much more literate (I mean Russian) of many of my Russians friends (yes then we didn’t understand that it was possible to divide Russian or Kazakh or Uzbek, but also Koreans, Tatars, Jews, etc. ..) In the mid-90s I went to the hinterland more than once - there I spoke Russian only with the older generation, with young people, had to use the local language, the benefit was that they studied it at school and most importantly the friends were local boys, they talked mixedly - sometimes it was gibberish, but we understood each other. Even now I can ask simple things or tell how to get there .... It’s a pity that it’s not that friendshipthat was between nations, at least I think so - remembering those years.
      1. Egor65g
        Egor65g April 2 2015 15: 36
        +1
        Quote: Bombardier
        It is a pity that it is not the friendship that was returned between the peoples, at least it seems to me that way - recalling those years.

        I agree. You can even say about one Central Asian people smile
    2. Hleb
      Hleb April 2 2015 11: 18
      +7
      here you need to not believe and guess, but just know at least something about Kazakhstan.
      even to look at those Kazakhs that are written here, and of whom there were more at one time, so they explain themselves more clearly and more adequately than some "speakers"
      1. riegel
        riegel April 2 2015 17: 02
        +2
        Quote: Gleb
        here you need to not believe and guess, but just know at least something about Kazakhstan.
        even to look at those Kazakhs that are written here, and of whom there were more at one time, so they explain themselves more clearly and more adequately than some "speakers"

        At work today, the unit for Kazakhstan was being prepared for dispatch, so it was surprising that all the nameplates were in Kazakh and English, without Russian ... the first time this, before it was English and Russian. Strange of course, but it's their choice.
        1. Hleb
          Hleb April 2 2015 18: 27
          +4
          I haven’t been there for a relatively long time. I want to go to my parents' day, remember Batya. Batya, by the way, with Margelov (also Batya)) drank fifty grams.
          and it’s not a problem to go at all, a few hours, but life goes on, something is changing, parents are no longer there ...
          By the way, the ruble exchange rate is not a joy for us now. For me, a river near the house, a forest, friends who have not yet parted, that's what pulls. In general, there are no problems. Language or, as some say, "hostile attitude" - in general, I consider it nonsense . I come home. Comrades Kazakhs will still be offended if I do not come.
          I don’t know who and what they think about self-determination and rebirth, but for me the collapse of the USSR and separation is a real catastrophe. I really want us to be able to go to each other without any boundaries, buy houses without fomal delay, and then visit these houses, meet old friends, make new ...
          honestly, I’m driving through customs and I don’t feel in my heart that I’ve gone abroad. change of prices, money, a few other little things and that’s all. whoever says that they offended him, they will offend him everywhere, even at home
          1. riegel
            riegel April 2 2015 19: 45
            0
            [quote = Gleb] language or, as some say, "hostile attitude" -in general, I think for delirium. I'm coming home. Comrades Kazakhs will still be offended if I don't go. [/ qUote] I can tell you)))
    3. riegel
      riegel April 2 2015 12: 28
      +3
      Quote: Yeraz
      I will never believe that by the end of the 20 century the majority owned Russian.

      you have to believe it, because it's true, in the cities everyone spoke Russian, and right now little has changed.
    4. bekjan
      bekjan April 2 2015 13: 48
      +2
      In Kyrgyzstan at the end of the 20th century, more than 70% of the population owned.
    5. Talgat
      Talgat April 2 2015 19: 28
      +3
      Quote: Yeraz
      I will never believe that by the end of the 20 century the majority owned Russian.


      Believe Eraz, all - 100%! Kazakhs in the USSR Russified faster than all neighboring peoples. And some even began to forget their language - which is no longer good

      I always regret the death of our common Motherland, and all the consequences are simply tragic for all peoples
      But the fact that some of us at least remembered our native language, I must admit, is probably the only positive event after the collapse

      With future integration, it is imperative to take this lesson into account - you can be in close allied relations - but each nation must preserve its identity, language and culture - including Russians, by the way, too - diversity I think does not contradict the cohesion of the republics, vice versa will be the power of Eurasia
  7. Zymran
    Zymran April 2 2015 11: 06
    +4
    Quote: Bombardier
    in cities you can say all 100% could speak Russian, and some spoke without any accent


    It's true. At least for Kazakhstan.


    Quote: Bombardier
    Yes, then we did not understand that it can be divided into Russian or Kazakh or Uzbek, but also Koreans, Tatars, Jews, etc. ..)


    Well, well. lol
    1. Bombardier
      Bombardier April 2 2015 11: 38
      +1
      Quote: Zymran



      Quote: Bombardier
      Yes, then we did not understand that it can be divided into Russian or Kazakh or Uzbek, but also Koreans, Tatars, Jews, etc. ..)


      Well, well. lol


      I wrote from personal experience, we were friends tightly despite my nationality, and if I had to fight, I fought with the boys from another house (apartment building) - it was an inter-saber, so to speak, and if someone offended our boyfriend, in another quarter - they went all together by the side. this is the end of the 70s and the beginning of the 80s. Is not it? I can list the names of my friends - Nurzhan, Lyoshka Pak, Shukhrat, Sabit, Seryoga, Yegor, Shavkat, Dimka, Zorik .... yes it is, the most drugan memory came immediately.
      1. Zymran
        Zymran April 2 2015 11: 40
        +2
        Quote: Bombardier
        , were friends tightly despite their nationality, and if they had to fight, they fought with the boys from another house (apartment building), and if anyone offended our guy in another quarter, they all went together


        I don’t argue about this. True, I grew up in 90.
        1. Zymran
          Zymran April 2 2015 11: 43
          0


          A simple, but sincere song and clip.
        2. Bombardier
          Bombardier April 2 2015 11: 52
          +4
          Zymran KZ Today, 11: 40
          Quote: Bombardier
          , were friends tightly despite their nationality, and if they had to fight, they fought with the boys from another house (apartment building), and if anyone offended our guy in another quarter, they all went together

          I don’t argue about this. True, I grew up in the 90s.



          In the 90s, with the friendship of peoples, they did such things that now cannot be restored for centuries. I’m even offended for you - you didn’t find the times that I described. Here's an example- with Nurzhan, we grew up together in the same entrance, ate with one cup, the parents were friends ... But what is there ... You don’t understand this already - the 90s did their job.
          1. Zymran
            Zymran April 2 2015 12: 05
            +5
            Quote: Bombardier
            Here's an example- with Nurzhan, we grew up together in the same porch, ate with one cup, the parents were friends ... But what's there ... You don’t understand this already - 90 did their job


            I was also friends with Denis Belorussia and Sanya Korean, in 16 years I met with a Russian girl Svetka. All this happened in 90 and the very beginning of the zero.
            I don’t know what happened to the friendship of peoples. Can explain?
            1. Bombardier
              Bombardier April 2 2015 12: 18
              +1
              Quote: Zymran

              I don’t know what happened to the friendship of peoples. Can explain?


              Since ancient times, the law is one - Divide and rule!

              And you can find a pain point in everyone! The main thing is to throw a grain of mistrust and point out the culprit.
              1. Zymran
                Zymran April 2 2015 12: 39
                +2
                Quote: Bombardier
                And you can find a pain point in everyone! The main thing is to throw a grain of mistrust and point out the culprit.


                Let's be more specific.
                1. Bombardier
                  Bombardier April 2 2015 12: 48
                  +2
                  What do you want to hear from me? Like -M .. yaku on gilyaku? or what?
                  So I grew up internationalist.
                  1. Zymran
                    Zymran April 2 2015 12: 51
                    +2
                    Quote: Bombardier
                    What do you want to hear from me? Like - yaku on gilyaka? or what?


                    Here you are talking about the friendship of peoples in the 70-80-e years, I can tell the same thing about the 90-e. You claim that in 90 it became not so.
                    So I ask, why do you think so?
                    1. Bombardier
                      Bombardier April 2 2015 12: 53
                      +1
                      Quote: Zymran

                      Quote: Bombardier
                      Yes, then we did not understand that it can be divided into Russian or Kazakh or Uzbek, but also Koreans, Tatars, Jews, etc. ..)


                      Well, well. lol


                      I thought so after your comment. Aren't your words?
                      1. Zymran
                        Zymran April 2 2015 12: 57
                        +2
                        Quote: Bombardier
                        I thought so after your comment. Aren't your words?


                        All is correct. My majority of my classmates or neighbors were Russian; personally, no one ever tried to hurt me about my nationality. But in general, they could speak insultingly about Kazakhs, for example, or about Koreans.
                      2. Bombardier
                        Bombardier April 2 2015 13: 12
                        +4
                        You know, as a "Russian pig" I was forced to leave Central Asia "to my own Russia", but it is noteworthy that all the neighbors (most of them were no longer Russians) came out to see us off, the women cried, said that they would stay, did not leave , made a farewell pilaf for us .... the guys helped load the containers ..
                        On the whole, as you say, we were thrown into corners, and at the everyday level people always understood each other.
                      3. Zymran
                        Zymran April 2 2015 13: 14
                        +2
                        And if the neighbors asked you not to leave and stay, then who kicked you out?
                      4. Bombardier
                        Bombardier April 2 2015 13: 27
                        +3
                        I wrote a comment to you above not to find out why I left. And in response to your own comment
                        Quote: Zymran
                        But in general, they could speak insultingly about Kazakhs, for example, or about Koreans.


                        So, in general, we were "divorced" - the result is mistrust turning into enmity. The principle still works - Divide and Conquer!
                        Yes, on the example of our correspondence, you are trying to find a catch or some kind of insult, or something, in your direction ... Believe me, why not do this!

                        And the land where I was born and raised, with those people who lived then and live now on that land, I want to say thank you! And wish all the best!
                        I'm finishing the correspondence. Sincerely. hi
                      5. riegel
                        riegel April 2 2015 20: 09
                        +2
                        Quote: Zymran
                        And if the neighbors asked you not to leave and stay, then who kicked you out?

                        In the 90s, there was hidden crowding out, orders or just jobs purely for the titular nation, the rest only had to smoke bamboo and it remained just how many big-headed and arm-handed drunk or dropped before my eyes simply.
                      6. kyznets
                        kyznets April 2 2015 15: 17
                        +6
                        I have a story similar to Bombardier. Late 70s, early 80s my youth. Left for 94m. He left because he had heard from the beginning of the 80s that I was a stranger. I saw with my own eyes in the winter of the 86th for two days the uprising in the square, after the resignation of Dinmukhamed Akhmetovich Kunaev and the appointment of Kolbin (I don’t remember his name anymore). I saw how the attitude towards us, Russians, among our fellow Kazakhs changed in these 2 days. Then again, as if nothing had happened. And in the beginning of the 90s they wrote on the walls that we cleaned up for ourselves in Russia. So that the Kazakhs do not buy apartments from us, because they will get them for free. There was a lot of domestic nationalism and chauvinism in the streets. They took revenge on us. And yes, I sold the apartment for a penny. He went to Russia to start a new life. I do not regret, do not hold evil, although I remember everything. Thank you, low bow for pushing me to leave. I live in my homeland, everything is there, satisfied, happy. I recall with warmth my friends who remained in Almaty - Russians, Koreans, Kazakhs, Turks, Kurds, Tatars, Uighurs, Armenians, Chechens, Gypsies, Dagestanis, Germans, Jews, Ingush. God bless you, happiness to all of you and health!
              2. Semurg
                Semurg April 2 2015 15: 06
                +1
                Quote: Bombardier
                Quote: Zymran

                I don’t know what happened to the friendship of peoples. Can explain?


                Since ancient times, the law is one - Divide and rule!

                And you can find a pain point in everyone! The main thing is to throw a grain of mistrust and point out the culprit.

                Recently, there was a heated discussion on the internet on the issue of renaming Mirzoyan Street into Satpayev Street. And we have formed two camps 1) "Russians" do not touch the Soviet street names, if you want to name the street after the "next" Kazakh, build a new street 2) "Kazakhs" Mirzoyan personally approved the execution lists of the Kazakh elite and asked in secret telegrams from Moscow to increase the number shot and such a person has no place in the name of a street in the capital of the Republic of Kazakhstan, and Satpayev is not just another Kazakh but one of the pillars and founders of science in the Kazakh SSR. No agreement was reached on this issue, and who divided and who received power on this issue?
                1. Bombardier
                  Bombardier April 2 2015 16: 54
                  +1
                  Quote: Semurg
                  There was no agreement on this issue, and who shared on this issue and who received power?


                  I look here the blame was made of me for all the troubles in Kazakhstan ... laughing

                  They would come to a consensus and rename Mirzoyan’s street (I have no idea who it is) to, say, Twice Hero of the Soviet Union Talgat Begeldinov - and the question would be removed, I’m sure. I don’t want to offend Saptaev (I don’t know anything about him either) and I will trust you that he is a respected person - another street would be named after him. Kazakhstan as a whole would have won, if only the other problems that were more pressing were condemned in the net.
                  1. Talgat
                    Talgat April 2 2015 19: 39
                    +1
                    Dear Bombardier! In general, your position is that of an internationalist! drinks
                    With such Russians, we built our Soviet Kazakhstan once
                    We live with such people now - and maybe you shouldn’t leave in vain

                    As I understand it, Zymran says that even after the 90's nothing changed much and the Kazakhs began to look at Russians as worse
                    and he was trying to understand your position - do you think that some kind of split occurred in the 90?

                    I personally think that nothing has changed much - every day I see groups of kids on the streets - both Kazakhs and Russians mixed up - and I see groups of friends - all together - and teams at work - no one here shares
                    1. Bombardier
                      Bombardier April 2 2015 20: 31
                      +2
                      Quote: Talgat
                      .. that in the 90s there was some kind of split.

                      I personally think that nothing has changed much - every day I see groups of kids on the streets - both Kazakhs and Russians mixed up - and I see groups of friends - all together - and teams at work - no one here shares


                      If there is (on emotions) a conversation about the name of the street, while each side appeals to the nationality of the opponent - it means that something happened, don’t you find it? Even now, when actually sharing is not what!
                      just in case - I’m not blaming anyone, but stating a fact!
                  2. Semurg
                    Semurg April 2 2015 19: 48
                    +1
                    No question would have been removed. It's just that there are "Russians" on the principle against the Kazakh surname in the name of a street in the capital of Kazakhstan (don't find it a bit strange and funny). Bigeldinov is understandably a military hero, but Satpayev is a "bigger" figure for Kazakhstan, it is not for nothing that the city is named after him. Mirzoyan is Goloshchekin's replacement, the organizer of the famine in Kazakhstan (horseradish that is no sweeter than radish). No offense, but you lived in the Kazakh SSR and you do not know about Mirzoyan or Satpayev request , although why be surprised this is the opposite.
                    1. Bombardier
                      Bombardier April 2 2015 20: 18
                      +1
                      I did not live in Kazakhstan, excuse me!
                      1. Semurg
                        Semurg April 2 2015 20: 51
                        +1
                        Yes, this is my mistake, not you, but the blacksmith wrote that he lived in Almaty, excuse me request .
                      2. Bombardier
                        Bombardier April 2 2015 21: 08
                        +2
                        I was not offended! hi I propose to correct the situation in the friendship of peoples and start with good relations between us! What do you think about it?
                      3. Semurg
                        Semurg April 3 2015 06: 54
                        +2
                        so we didn't seem to fight. I did not write anything against friendship. and that means I have a positive attitude to it. True, it often happens that good-neighborly relations are understood in different ways, on my part it is equality and independence, then on the part of the "neighbor" for some reason, be sure to decide whether we or you. Which is puzzling.
                      4. kyznets
                        kyznets April 3 2015 16: 52
                        +1
                        Yes, not ... pa to you. Just live as you like, as you like, Russia has nothing to do with it? Be determined by YOURSELF. Friendship and cooperation you need no less than us. THIS IS A TWO-WAY ROAD. And here we may need less. We do without Kazakhstan. Russia is self-sufficient and resource and energy. And there is no need for us in Kazakhstan, except for the need to HAVE A FRIENDLY STATE in the neighborhood. And that’s it! Without subtexts and submissions. And we have the same relations and wishes with China - friendship. Well, no, and no trial!
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                  3. The comment was deleted.
                  4. Zymran
                    Zymran April 2 2015 19: 53
                    +2
                    Bigeldinov street in Astana already exists.
                    1. Bombardier
                      Bombardier April 2 2015 20: 22
                      +1
                      Quote: Zymran
                      Bigeldinov street in Astana already exists.


                      Well Bigeldinov just first came to mind, there might be someone else ..
                      Although by and large ... as you know, call it, this is not my country.
              3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Egor65g
        Egor65g April 2 2015 15: 44
        +1
        Similar situation hi
    2. bekjan
      bekjan April 2 2015 14: 03
      +1
      I have been living in Bishkek (the capital of Kyrgyzstan) for more than 15 years and I can definitely say that more than 90% speak Russian. Mostly only in big cities they speak Russian, and in the backwoods they understand Russian, the older generation who have visited the army (back in the USSR) in Russian cities, and young people in the south of the country speak Uzbek and Kyrgyz languages ​​and practically do not use Russian. In the north, the situation is different, half of the students receive education in Russian and the level of proficiency reaches 70%, which is reduced every year. And a very important factor, the Chinese language courses open like mushrooms after rain and the Chinese themselves are more than flies.
  8. Dimon-chik-79
    Dimon-chik-79 April 2 2015 11: 25
    +2
    Well, here you can’t argue with our friends from Kazakhstan. laughing But the trends are clear that in the near future in the Asian countries of the former USSR the population will be better spoken in Chinese than in Russian. And the reason is China alone purposeful, but we are not. China is strong and is expanding around the world, and it would be a sin not to do this at hand, but we are not. And we will be happy if we do not pass Ukraine, Belarus and Armenia. The country is witnessing a powerful patriotic upsurge, and no fundamental transformations of modernization and industrialization have been observed. Stagnation in one word.
    1. Talgat
      Talgat April 2 2015 19: 46
      +3
      We have a very strong, how to put it - "China-phobia" Let's say there are thousands of years of experience of communication with "variable success" - even a cartoon was shot about us - Mulan (how wild nomads attack and burn Chinese border villages)

      Therefore, we often do not share the current enthusiasm in Russia about the alliance with China against the United States - I personally look at China as a temporary ally

      But during these 20-30 years, we need to strengthen our Eurasian Union - all Slavs, the Caucasus and the Central Asian republics (+ Mongols) - the entire post-Soviet territory must form some kind of confederation with a common army and economy - in order to then speak on equal terms with a Chinese friend
      1. Zymran
        Zymran April 2 2015 19: 52
        +2
        Quote: Talgat
        We have a very strong, how to put it - "China-phobia" Let's say there are thousands of years of experience of communication with "variable success" - even a cartoon was shot about us - Mulan (how wild nomads attack and burn Chinese border villages)


        Kitaefobiya basically comes from the USSR after Damansk, etc.
  9. Asan Ata
    Asan Ata April 2 2015 13: 00
    +5
    There is one but. We have a normal attitude towards the Russians, disgustedly hated towards the Chinese.
  10. bekjan
    bekjan April 2 2015 14: 07
    0
    Now there is a very bad tendency that the Russian population is decreasing every year (1 child for two) and a large number of people in Kyrgyzstan have remained in retirement age, which is not reproduced, but there are no words about the Chinese.
  11. Humpty
    Humpty April 2 2015 15: 12
    +4
    Quote: bekjan
    Now there is a very bad tendency that the Russian population is declining every year (1 child for two) and a large number of people in retirement age remain in Kyrgyzstan

    And on this occasion, is at least one of the presidents in the CA even a little upset? In my opinion, the reduction of the Russian population and, by the way, of some other peoples of Russia is a focused moment in the internal state policy of the CA countries.
    Judging by the comments, the Chinese are an undesirable element, and they build roads, buy deposits, give loans and state bribes. officials, sell food cheaply and much more. Biting the giving hand is a sign of a hungry and ill-bred animal.
    If someone cannot pay money with them, then the Chinese are not squeamish, they can take it in kind.
    So is China to blame for the fact that, unlike Russia, it knows how to return its invested hard-earned money.
    It is not necessary to learn Chinese while waiting for the Chinese, they will also speak English when they need it.
    For 30 years the Russians have been trying to hammer in what we are here in the SA-guest. The Russians have never tasted, why would we be guests in our house. If we are guests here, well, maybe so. Then get ready for the return of the owner.
  12. Yereke
    Yereke April 2 2015 17: 11
    +2
    another "expert" from the blah blah series
  13. Ivan the Fool
    Ivan the Fool April 3 2015 17: 14
    0
    The average age of a Jew is 36 years old, an atheist is 34 years old, a Buddhist is 34 years old, a Catholic is 30 years old, a Hindu is 26 years old, a Muslim is 23 years old, an Orthodox Christian is 51 years old (!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!)
  14. Ivan the Fool
    Ivan the Fool April 3 2015 17: 15
    0
    Old data for 2012
    Country Percentage of pensioners to the population,% Number of pensioners, people Population of the country Retirement age
    M F
    Poland 36,64 14 000 000 38 208 618
    Испания 36,17 16 700 000 46 163 116 65 65
    Bulgaria 35,00 2 300 000 7
    Эстония 31,91 420 000 1 316 194 63 60,5
    Украина 29,41 13 400 000 45 560 272 60 55
    Россия 29,33 42 000 000 143 180 000 60 55
    Латвия 28,44 581 000 2 049 500 62 62
    Беларусь 26,22 2 480 000 9 457 500 60 55
    Австрия 25,08 2 120 000 8 452 835 65 60
    Япония 23,30 29 451 000 126 400 000 70 70
    Франция 20,00 12 680 000 63 400 000 60 60
    Германия 18,57 15 203 000 81 843 809 65-67 65-67
    Румыния 18,54 3 530 553 19 049 936 63 58
    Литва 18,23 544 785 2 988 400 62,5 60
    Швеция 18,00 1 706 580 9 481 000 61-67 61-67
    Италия 19,50 11 817 975 60 605 053 57-65 57-65
    Армения 16,78 520 257 3 100 236 60 58
    Венгрия 14,50 1 452 073 10 014 324 62 62
    Азербайджан 13,86 1 280 000 9 235 100 62,5 57,5
    Норвегия 10,51 526 631 5 006 000 67 67
    Kazakhstan 10,50 1 700 000 16 776 583 63 58 (already 63)
    Israel 10,20 800 000 7 836 000 67 62
    Таджикистан 7,19 561 000 7 800 000 63 58
  15. Aydin
    Aydin April 3 2015 17: 26
    +2
    Quote: bekjan
    And a very important factor, the Chinese language courses open like mushrooms after rain and the Chinese themselves are more than flies.

    I agree, the Chinese are rapidly settling in the Kyrgyz Republic, for example, in our city there wasn’t even a free garage, all the free are rented by the Chinese. They have come forever, building infrastructure for themselves under the guise of investment. Our corrupt authorities allow them all, of course it's a shame, but it’s already a fact that they will not leave.