Pavel Sozinov, General Designer of the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern: "The fifth-generation anti-aircraft missile system C-500 will be able to solve the entire spectrum of air defense and missile defense tasks"
In early February, the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern was transformed into an aerospace defense concern by presidential decree. New perspectives are opening before the concern in connection with this event, how the subject of the developed anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense means will change, what capabilities the fifth-generation C-500 anti-aircraft missile system will have, told Pavel SOZINOV, general designer of the concern.- Pavel Alekseevich, now your concern has another important area - space. Already know which companies will deal with this topic?
- As for the space component, it was with us before, since the concern’s enterprises carried out and continue to play a pivotal role in integrating the detection systems for ballistic missile launches, including the space flight. Traditionally, Vympel was responsible for this trend in our concern. As is well known, the ground-level radar radar of the missile early warning system is mainly operated by OJSC RTI, space facilities and systems - the Central Research and Development Institute Kometa, and now the Corporation Kometa, which, in accordance with a presidential decree, is transferred to the VKO concern.
Our enterprises act as integrators of the space and ground echelons at command posts of the respective destination. This concerns the SPRN, the space monitoring system and some other specific tasks that arise in this field of activity.
In general, the space direction is very interesting, it is represented in the concern not only by “Comet”. Let not our enterprises participate in the manufacture of certain samples or components of the equipment, in particular, according to the GLONASS system, not as the head, but as co-contractors of other Roscosmos enterprises. There are components that are developed and manufactured by our enterprises, primarily the Russian Institute of Radio Navigation and Time, which is located in St. Petersburg.
GLONASS, as it is known, has both a ground part and an onboard one. This is a very important component, since modern systems largely use the navigation signal to accurately determine their own position, as well as time synchronization.
As for the formation of the EKO concern, there are two points that need to be realized. On the one hand, technically, organizationally for us, by and large, nothing changes, because we have been associated with decades of joint work with Roskosmos enterprises dealing with aerospace defense issues. "Comet", for example, came out of KB-1, later transformed into the Almaz Central Design Bureau (now the Almaz-Antey Design Bureau named after Academician Raspletin). Academician Anatoly Ivanovich Savin, who for many years headed “Comet”, now works in our concern as a supervisor of studies.
Another question is how to implement new plans when entering a concern, including the development of aerospace defense systems? This applies not only to the systems that “Komet” deals with under existing contracts, but also to some promising projects that we are developing in the framework of the work of the Joint Council of Chief Designers on EKR systems. This council has been operating for two years already; it includes leading enterprises of almost all concerns that today are related to the aerospace defense system. This applies not only to the space train, but also to electronic warfare, which is done by one of the concerns of the Rostec State Corporation.
- In addition to the main topics, your concern, as you know, is also engaged aviation and the maritime component of air defense and missile defense. Tell us about this area of work.
- This direction is also quite serious. If we talk about fighter aircraft, I would like to note that within the framework of the council we have closely organized work with the structures of the United Aircraft Building Corporation. First of all, with the design offices of the Sukhoi Design Bureau and the MIG RAC, since we are directly making control systems for fighter aircraft. In addition, our systems are used to solve the problems of joint work of fighter aircraft in the zones of action of anti-aircraft missile forces. Airborne radar facilities for Sukhoi Design Bureau aircraft, including those of the fifth generation fighter, are also being developed by our enterprises, in particular, the Tikhomirov Scientific-Research Institute of Aviation, which is also part of the Almaz-Antey Air Defense Concern.
In this case, integration is at the technical and organizational levels, we have no legal relations with aircraft companies, except for contractual ones.
The same goes for the shipbuilding industry. The ship-based air defense and air defense missile defense component is also developing. There are serious plans for the development of completely new products for solving problems of air defense and missile defense of ships of a heavier class, in particular, a class destroyer and higher. Such work is carried out in conjunction with the main designer - the Northern PKB, which is part of the United Shipbuilding Corporation.
By itself, the ship's subject matter is extremely interesting, since a huge number of our enterprises engaged in the development of anti-aircraft and anti-missile defense technology are involved here, with adaptation to ship-based deployment conditions. They are significantly different from those that were in the previous generation, where in the 80-e 90-e unification of missiles was almost one hundred percent. Now for the sea-based complexes are created, including special products.
Airborne radar systems on ships were largely borrowed from C-300 systems, Buk, Thor systems, etc. with some specifics of their placement on the ship. Fundamentally new technical solutions are now being applied that reduce the ship’s visibility, improve the noise immunity of the radar system, ensure electromagnetic compatibility, and solve a number of other issues.
This is a rather complicated project. The Americans in this part have a large number of technical solutions and projects that optimally accommodate a multifunctional management system. weaponswhere all location, radio engineering and electronic means, EW tools and, of course, missile systems like air defense and missile defense, and shock, are integrated. We are following the same way, especially since along with air defense and missile defense systems for ships we also develop attack complexes based on cruise missiles. This, in particular, deals with the Novator Design Bureau.
I would like to note that the current ship systems are in demand abroad. Russian enterprises carried out and are fulfilling the relevant contracts for the supply of ships with our weapons to the People's Republic of China, India and a number of other countries.
In the newest stories There are precedents when foreign weapons were installed on our ships, and vice versa, when our weapons were installed on foreign projects.
- How are things going with the creation of a new anti-aircraft missile system C-500. When can her trials begin? What is the fundamental difference between this and the existing SRS?
- The information on this system is largely closed and we prefer not to talk about this topic. But some points can be mentioned without disclosing TTH.
It is clear that the C-500 system, we call it the fifth-generation system, is fundamentally different from the "four-hundred" in the first place on technical and technological solutions that are laid in the radar and the new generation of anti-aircraft guided missiles. A new round of technological capabilities, which we have now begun to have, has led to the fact that we have the opportunity to put into practice the requirements of the Ministry of Defense to create a new generation system. We are, in fact, reaching the level where both for the aerospace defense troops and for solving tasks of the air defense forces in the near future, the unified C-500 system will be basic.
The second feature of this system is the expansion of missile defense capabilities. Here I can only draw some kind of conditional analogy. The closest analogue for the missile defense system for our new system could be a modernized and mass-produced mobile, or more correctly relocated, American THAAD missile defense system.
In terms of air defense, the Patriot PAC-3 can be considered the closest analogue, although in terms of a number of characteristics the American complex is significantly inferior to our systems, even now existing ones, such as C-300B4 and C-400.
In general, the C-500 system will be able to solve the whole range of air and missile defense tasks, taking into account the prospects for the development of aerospace attack weapons.
- You mentioned the C-400 Triumph, which is actually being delivered to the troops. Has the completion of the entire set of rockets for this system been completed or are it still using “300” missiles?
“This system comes to the troops with rockets of a new generation.” According to the "400", we have a certain program of further development, primarily based on the introduction of a new range of missiles, which are being developed on various topics, including shipboard air defense. At the same time, the main task is to ensure even higher fire performance, noise immunity, etc. That is, the most important properties that characterize the possibilities of using the system to repel massive strikes of modern aerospace attacks.
Our approach was originally the same - from any project that was developed for other orders, sea, land, and for air defense - missile defense of the new generation, we try to implement all useful technical solutions for missile products into other systems in order to broaden the spectrum of threats reflected, increase, including export potential. In this case, you can add up a certain system configuration, based on the possibility of using various products.
This approach is actually used throughout the world. Widely known are the solutions that the Americans implemented with the Europeans, where a number of spent missiles were being introduced into other complexes. In particular, on the ships. European complexes were installed there, but with American missiles and vice versa. There are joint projects where French missiles are used on American complexes. Those. This is a normal practice.
The same goes for the largely complexes that Israel is currently creating, which, along with the United States, is our serious scientific and technical competitor. At least in the class of complexes of short and medium range. Israel today has a number of proven technical solutions that must be reckoned with and somehow parry their ability to enter the foreign market, where we are already starting to compete quite toughly. If the Americans have restrictions on a number of countries, then Israel has no special restrictions, so they safely enter the traditional markets of Russia. One of the clearest examples is India, where Israel is widely present.
- Russia has recently been actively promoting the new Antey-2500 air defense system for export. What are the features of this system in comparison with C-300В, which was produced earlier?
- "Antey-2500" - conditional export name of the system C-300В4. The export version is slightly different from the base version, which was created for the Russian Armed Forces.
What is the principal difference between the C-300B4 and previous generations: firstly, a significant part of the equipment is made on a modern element base, which made it possible to significantly expand the characteristics with respect to the previous generation of C-300В systems.
Second, a new long-range missile has been introduced, which is capable of solving, among other things, the tasks of non-strategic missile defense. Significantly expanded the possibility of range of destruction. We already reach the 400 km. This greatly facilitates the combat use of all other systems, because it forces jammers to be at a safe distance.
Long-range radar patrol and control aircraft, such as the AWACS, now also cannot enter the 400-kilometer zone with impunity. Accordingly, the ability to control assault and fighter aircraft is reduced. The introduction of this kind of long-range missiles significantly alters the potential situation that may arise when the corresponding attacks are repelled.
The same ideology is inherent in the "400", other systems, including the fifth generation.
If we talk about the new properties of C-400B4, I would also like to note the higher adaptability of this system. If we consider the components, much had to be redone or re-done, which allowed us to ensure the necessary quality and volume of mass production. On this air defense system, for example, a specialized chassis has been introduced. When creating this system, as well as the Tor-M2 SAM system, we walked the path of not creating some elements of production, but creating new ones.
- Is the possibility of creating a modification of the C-300B4 on the automobile chassis?
- We already have a corresponding project, so if there is demand on the car chassis, we will launch it.
Initially, the Ministry of Defense proposed to carry out a local modernization of the C-300В to extend the service life and a small build-up of characteristics, but we managed to convince the military that it was not worthwhile to do local modernization. We need to make more modern designs, although we borrowed some solutions, but in general this is actually a new technique.
- What is the Vityaz C-350? It was reported that it is many times higher than in its combat capabilities system C-300. Is it really? Is this air defense system delivered to the troops or is it still undergoing tests?
- The system was developed in accordance with the terms of reference for the replacement of S-300PT-PS air defense systems, that is, the first generation of "three hundred". It is designed to solve the problems of combating, first of all, massive means of aerospace attack. Meaning with cruise missiles, manned aircraft, drones medium and heavy class, tactical ballistic missiles. That is, the full range of goals that were in the niche of the "three hundred" of the first generation.
What is the principal feature of the C-350 "Vityaz"? There are two of them. The first is that this system has the ability to review and fire on targets in a circular mode, and not only in the sector, as in the "three hundred". The second feature - in the new ZRS channel for simultaneously fired targets and guided missiles significantly increased.
The base missiles on the V-Kniaz C-350 are missiles with active homing heads. Their band characteristics, respectively, exceed the characteristics of the first-generation three-hundred-rocket missiles.
It is also important that the ammunition, which is located on one launcher, consists of 12 missiles instead of 4. It is very important to repel massive strikes. Not to mention the fact that the C-350 increased noise immunity, solved the problem of highly automated control. The main mode of operation of the tools is automatic.
The export performance of the Vityaz has been agreed with the Ministry of Defense, i.e. we have the right to export this system.
C-350 "Vityaz" is currently in the process of testing. In parallel, we are preparing mass production.
- How do you assess the opportunities for further improvement of the Tor-M2E short-range air defense system and the Buk-M2E medium-range air defense missile system?
- As for the Buka line, we have mastered the production of the Buk-М2 system. It is serially supplied both to the troops and for export. Completed the tests and mastered the mass production of the next generation of "Bukov" for the air defense of the Ground Forces. At this complex, we have dramatically, almost doubled, increased the mobile ammunition. Expanded the affected area in comparison with previous modifications.
The system has become fully consistent with modern requirements for air defense systems of medium-range military air defense. It also remained on the tracked chassis, but there is an option on the wheeled chassis. First of all for export. Today in the class of medium-range military air defense foreign counterparts of the Buk-М2 air defense system simply do not exist. The main feature of the new "Buk" is that practically from the march, you can solve the tasks of combat control and shooting. This is important because all systems of this class require a lot of time to deploy.
In the class of short-range air defense missile systems, the serial production of the Tor-М2 was mastered in several modifications, including with the new rocket. This complex also doubled the ammunition and canal. Significantly expanded the affected area. In fact, everything is done anew.
The interest of foreign countries in this complex is very large, there are a lot of applications for supplies, which allows us not only to look to the future with optimism, but also to start building next-generation short-range complexes.
- What are the prospects for developing air defense missile defense systems based on new physical principles? The United States, for example, recently closed its program to build missile defense systems using an airborne laser.
- If we talk about laser weapons or weapons of directed energy, as they call it, then we have been dealing with this topic for a long time. Therefore, I do not adhere to the term “new physical principles”. They were new in 60-70-s.
Ground-based laser weapons for solving the tasks of covering point objects, influencing various types of electronic systems, including those installed on airplanes, spacecraft, were actively created by both us and the Americans. In the US, they set themselves an almost unsolvable task - the interception of ballistic missiles launched from submarines. And on this they lost with their program ABL. But this does not mean that they turned off the aviation complex with a laser on board as unclaimed. Nothing of the kind, they simply switched to what is more realistic - to the suppression of space-based optoelectronic systems. We do that too.
- So we are going with them leg in a leg?
- I would not say that foot in a leg. Technologically, they are more advanced in this direction, but this does not mean that we have nothing. We are doing the appropriate experimental complexes, we are working. On the characteristics, I naturally can not speak.
If we talk about ground-based or ship-based systems based on lasers, which the US is now actively engaged in, then their effective practical use is still unlikely, since it requires a large amount of energy on board. To defeat, i.e. the physical destruction of cruise missiles attacking a ship or ground object at a distance of several kilometers requires power of about 100 kilowatts or more. We are talking about the radiated power, with regard to consumed, it is, respectively, even more - under megawatts.
Again, the effectiveness of laser weapons is very dependent on weather conditions. For example, on the coast of northern Africa, where meteovidability is very good - this is one thing, on our territory, closed, as a rule, in dense clouds - quite another.
The same applies to ships with laser installations. It all depends on where and for what purpose to use a laser weapon. If there is a task in the framework of anti-terrorist operations to shoot a boat or boat motor and immobilize a small craft is a very real task. Similar installations can be used also on balloons, hang-gliders. But to work from the ground for serious air targets is unlikely, because there are really huge energy losses in the atmosphere.
- We often say that our systems are superior to foreign analogues, and what are their real advantages over the same Patriot PAC-3?
- It is not entirely correct to compare our equipment with foreign ones, nevertheless, in a number of areas our equipment really exceeds foreign analogues. This is partly due to the fact that, due to various circumstances, they did not set themselves the task of achieving those characteristics, for example, by the range of destruction that our systems possess. The Americans, for example, limited themselves to missiles with an inclined launch and continue to do this, while the launch of our missiles is vertical, which creates certain advantages.
Americans have a huge number of fighter aircraft with missiles that have a “long arm”. Accordingly, they simply did not have a need for long-range anti-aircraft missile systems over 200 km. So they thought. We considered it a little different. But there is a fact - zone characteristics of our systems are higher. Nevertheless, it cannot be said that in this class we somehow enormously surpass the complexes created in the USA. By individual characteristics - yes.
True, now for the "Aegis" they create a SM-6 rocket with a hit area of the order of 400 kilometers. In 2016-2017, it will be ready and implemented on the ship. Then it will be possible to introduce it into the land complexes.
As for mobile missile defense, for example, THAAD (ground-based anti-missile complex for high-altitude over-atmospheric interception of medium-range missiles), by virtue of their characteristics, they began work on it in the 1991 year and are still funding. 25 years they were engaged in this topic before they created this complex. If we talk about Aegis, here, too, they practiced around 20 for years until they reached acceptable intercept characteristics in the class of medium-range ballistic missiles. That is, they had a background with huge funding. Of course, we didn’t have such a prehistory, because funding was not so long ago open, respectively, and there’s some lag.
- Do you have today problems with financing new developments?
“Thanks to the decisions of the President of Russia, some of the topics we deal with are classified as priority or super-priority, so here it’s not ours to complain. Financing is going well and I hope it will go fine. Unfortunately, not all topics are so funded. We understand that it would be good to conduct development on a broad front, but if there is not enough money, you need to determine priorities.
- Many Russian enterprises, especially in the aircraft industry, actively cooperate with Western companies for the implementation of promising projects. Take the same BrahMos or fifth-generation fighter, which we are creating together with India. Does the concern have similar projects with foreign partners?
- We also conducted joint projects in the anti-aircraft missile sector, in particular, with the South Korean company Samsung. The result of this work was the creation of a medium-range complex “K-MSAM”. By the way, the further development of this direction was the creation of the Vityaz anti-aircraft missile.
Koreans have worked with us for many years. They were grateful to us, and we also learned a lot from them, in particular, in terms of the approach to the design of equipment. Cooperation is often very beneficial not only from a commercial point of view, but also in terms of technology exchange. True, we are not entirely positive about cooperation with some countries, because they may turn out to be potential competitors for us.
- How critical have Western sanctions become for the concern? Do you use foreign equipment in your systems?
- Part of the equipment for equipping the production is indeed being purchased abroad, so the sanctions introduced some restrictions. But there is an alternative. Nowhere is it said that equipment must be purchased from Western companies. We began to more actively conduct purchases from Asian colleagues. This allowed to get away from sanctions without much loss. And somewhere even on the contrary to get something new.
As for the element base, the situation here is about the same. Firstly, we do not use anything supernatural from the import element base. In parallel, there is an import substitution program. We successfully replace a number of foreign components that are used in the manufacture of technology with domestic counterparts. After all, our electronics industry is also not standing still.
In addition, there is also an intermediate version, which we also use when the production of the element base is carried out abroad, and the development is with us. This avoids potential bookmarks. It is a normal technology. It, by the way, is actively used by both Americans and Europeans.
We do not set ourselves the task of building factories for the production of the entire spectrum of the element base and equipment. But the individual technological line - this is yes.
- Will the concern continue to be engaged in the development and production of air traffic control equipment, GLONASS ground equipment?
- In accordance with the presidential decree of the Russian Federation, we are the head structure for air traffic control centers. All integrated centers are equipped mainly with our equipment and software. Today we can say that there are already about ten such enlarged centers, which are created according to our technologies. Among them is the center in the Olympic Sochi. But it is not the largest object. The largest Moscow.
Now there is a trial operation of this center. Everything is difficult there, because the Moscow center is responsible for managing air traffic throughout the European part of Russia. Along with the fact that there is still a center in Kaliningrad and in St. Petersburg.
The Moscow zone is very complicated - there are many airfields, from which both civil and military aircraft fly. A huge number of flights of government aviation as well. This is a very complex system with extremely heavy traffic.
For about a year now, together with Rosaviatsia, we have been engaged in the certification of this system, we detect some errors, we are working on something in the process. We hope that the Moscow Center in all respects, including the functional one, will meet the highest standards of international standards. Moreover, there are some prototypes. Baseline data that are given to the Moscow center, correspond to what was created in Munich. There are no other prototypes. Even Heathrow in London doesn’t closely meet these requirements. The most modern system in Europe is now deployed in Munich.
In parallel, we are working on other enlarged centers.
In addition, we supply a huge amount of location technology that solves the problem of air traffic control at aerodromes and flight routes. Accordingly, we are engaged in integrating this information, including in the interests of the military.
A large number of meteorological radars that we developed ourselves, we supply in the interests of civil and military aviation, as well as for the meteorological agency. By the way, we won a tender for the supply of meteo-radars in the hardest struggle by foreign competitors.
According to GLONASS, we mainly manufacture equipment for special consumers, for aviation, for ships and civilian ships. Some of the supply abroad. In the required quantity we produce individual GLONASS receivers for the military.
We tried to enter the civilian market. About a year quite successfully competed with Western manufacturers. But still sank compared to the Chinese. The Chinese are pushing everyone out of the market, because the price is still one and a half times lower.
There are a lot of projects in other civil science-intensive areas in which we are engaged. Including the use of military developments. For example, by sonar very modern devices are doing. We produce a certain range of medical equipment that meets the latest requirements. True, to enter this market is extremely difficult. But we do not intend to give up. We must always look to the future, even when it seems that tasks are not feasible. This is the key to success in any business, not only in ours.
Information