Military Review

In the wake of IDEX 2015

51

Production of Turkish Kirpi MRAP is increasing


After a pause, the Turkish company BMC Otomotiv Sanayi ve Ticaret resumed production of its machine with enhanced mine protection Kirpi 4x4 MRAP, which was shown at the IDEX 2015 exhibition with an installed remotely controlled combat module.

According to the results of the competition, the command of the ground forces of Turkey chose Kirpi to satisfy its need for the first MRAP vehicle. The initial contract was placed on 468 machines, but after manufacturing the 278 pieces, production was temporarily stopped. Manufacturing of machines has now resumed and the company said that “approximately 600 machines have already been supplied and they are currently being successfully operated.”

Kirpi MRAP has been offered for export for several years now and Tunisia, which received about 40 machines, became the first buyer.

The Kirpi MRAP machine is distinguished by an all-welded single-volume body of armored steel with a V-shaped lower part, which provides a high level of protection from mines of improvised explosive devices, small weapons and shell splinters.

In an armored personnel carrier configuration, in addition to a crew of three, the Kirpi MRAP can accommodate up to 10 paratroopers. Standard equipment includes air conditioning and suspended seats with five-point seat belts that increase crew survivability.

Further work by the company led to the Kirpi 6x6 variant, which has many common components with the 4x4 serial machine, but a larger internal volume and carrying capacity and can perform a wide range of combat missions. The development of Kirpi 6x6 is completed, and after receiving orders, it can begin mass production.

BMC supplied approximately 5000 wheeled vehicles to the Turkish armed forces, including variants 2,5 tons and 5 tons (4x4), 10 tons (6x6) and 20 tons (8X8).

In addition to Kirpi 4x4 MRAP, the company presented its IDC 2015 tactical off-road truck BMC 380-26-P 6x6 weighing 10 tons with a cargo platform at the IDEX XNUMX exhibition; and this is just one of many options currently available to consumers.

In the wake of IDEX 2015

A BMC Kirpi (4x4) MRAP machine is fitted with a remote-controlled combat module, armed with an 12,7-mm machine gun


First Win. Armored excellence from Thailand


Chaiseri Defense, a leading Thai specialist in the field of military vehicles, has been engaged in the modernization and repair of armored vehicles for more than fifty years. Currently, the company has used its rich experience plus all the high-tech production capabilities to create the First Win 4x4 family of vehicles that meet the needs of many armies and security forces in an inexpensive but reliable vehicle.

In order to meet the various requirements of customers, First Win was conceived as a family of options with different levels of protection and mobility. The machine is easily configured for a variety of tasks of the army and security forces, for example, it can be a sanitary or reconnaissance option, a command post or an armored personnel carrier. Without any problems, the car can be transported by air, sea, rail or road. Various external armaments are installed on it, for example, 7,62-mm or 12,7-mm machine guns or 40-mm grenade launchers. Various internal layout schemes can be implemented, and with one driver, First Win can accept 10 infantrymen.

Protection of the crew and the assault is provided by an all-welded single-volume bearing V-shaped hull of armor steel. Not only the habitable compartment is protected, but also the engine compartment.


The First Win armored personnel carrier is equipped with a Cummins diesel engine rated at 300 hp; The machine has a high level of protection against mines and improvised explosive devices. As standard, the level of ballistic protection complies with the STANAG Level 2 standard, but it can optionally be raised to STANAG Level 3, while the machine has full mine protection corresponding to STANAG Level 3. This suggests that it can withstand an 8 kg of TNT exploding under the bottom and an 10 kg of TNT exploding under any wheel.

The first Win-E variant of a smaller size is equipped with an 250 horsepower engine. and independent suspension, which is optimized for dynamic reconnaissance operations. This option has a Level 2 anti-mine level of protection, but a slightly smaller mass compared to the standard First Win machine with a corresponding increase in mobility. Chaiseri also offers a lightweight version of First Win-L with an HP 200 engine. and standard protection corresponding to Level 1. Its main field of application is internal security forces, for which the threat of mines is not so relevant.

In the Thai army and the Ministry of the Interior, more than 30 First Win machines are already in service. Chaiseri currently offers its versatile and efficient vehicle for export, focusing on a high level of crew and landing protection and an affordable price.

Advanced version of the AMRAAM rocket


AMRAAM rocket fired from a NASAMS launcher. AMRAAM-ER will fly faster and farther

The company Raytheon Missile Systems said that it is developing a version of its advanced medium-range air-to-air missile Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missile (AMRAAM), which will have an increased range. The goal of this development is to expand the coverage area of ​​the National Advanced Surface-to-Air Missile System (NASAMS) national advanced missile system. The first AMRAAM-ER test launch is scheduled for the end of 2015.

Designed specifically for ground-based air defense missions GBAD (ground-based air defense), the AMRAAM-ER rocket will have a new propeller, which will improve the kinematics, which will allow to intercept targets at large distances and high altitudes.

“The new rocket will fly at a greater speed, it will be more maneuverable compared to the current AMRAAM,” said Mike Jarett, vice president of the air combat systems division at Raytheon. “Using many of the existing AMRAAM components, Raytheon can deliver AMRAAM-ER to the target quickly, at an affordable price and with very little risk.”

Raytheon integrates an extended-range missile into a NASAMS launcher. NASAMS was developed in collaboration with Kongsberg Defense Systems. This is the GBAD range of the near and medium range, in which the AMRAAM ground launch missile is used as the actuating element. The NASAMS system was sold to seven customers, to date more than 70 launchers have been delivered. For more than a decade, the system has been in service with Norway, NASAMS is also deployed in the metropolitan district of Columbia, Spain, Finland, the Netherlands, and in another unnamed country. It is also manufactured in Oman under a contract issued last year.

The NASAMS complex includes a multifunctional information management system module that integrates various sensors and launchers. Targets are determined and monitored by a 3D high-resolution, sharp-beam radar. In order to obtain real-time complete information about the air situation, several radars and the corresponding fire control centers can be networked via a radio channel.


AMRAAM rocket at IDEX 2015

Precision Missiles from Korea

2015 Korean defense companies took part in the IDEX 22 exhibition. One of them, the company LIG Nex1, presented its line of rockets at one of the stands.

First of all, from the presented exhibits of this company, it is worth noting the Chiron ground-to-air rocket with an infrared homing head, which is in service with the Korean army and received the Korean national defense award in 2004 year. The rocket has a two-color homing head, which well distinguishes the target from modern infrared false targets. The small mass and compact dimensions of the rocket make it portable and quickly deployable.


Shoulder antitank complex Raybolt

Also at the IDEX 2015, the Raybolt portable anti-tank guided missile was demonstrated. It is also quite compact and has a relatively small mass, which allows us to classify the complex in which it belongs to the portable class.

This weapon can be used in direct attack or attack from above, which allows you to direct it to the upper surfaces of armored vehicles that are most vulnerable. This rocket is smokeless, self-guided, which reduces the probability of detecting the operator and allows rocket launches inside the building.

LIG Nex1 also introduced a ground-to-air ground-based KM-SAM rocket and a new K-SAAM ground-to-air missile. Both vertical launch missiles, KM-SAM uses a radar guidance system. In K-SAAM, inertial guidance is used on the main course of the trajectory, and in the final part of the trajectory a dual microwave and infrared homing head operates.

The company also showed off its maritime perimeter security system, armed with Korean fleet. It uses a combination of distributed sensor elements: passive sensors for detecting targets in the external perimeter, magnetic and acoustic sensors for medium distances and active sonar, optoelectronic tracking equipment and radar for detecting threats inside the perimeter.

The executive director of LIG Nex1 announced the company's intention to expand its presence in the UAE market, which is of particular importance for the LIG Nex1.

Materials used:
www.janes.com
www.idexuae.ae
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  1. crazyrom
    crazyrom 2 March 2015 07: 04 New
    +1
    Well, I don’t know, it's all plain somehow, ours is much more like soldier
    1. andrkust
      andrkust 2 March 2015 10: 48 New
      +2
      This, of course, is a fact! But you cannot go far on beauty alone, in the literal sense of the word winked
    2. corporal
      corporal 2 March 2015 11: 53 New
      +3
      Quote: crazyrom
      ours is much more like

      Are our shoulder-mounted anti-tank systems cooler than Korean ones?
      Show me one so that I too will be proud.
      Z.Y. Patriotism is very good.
      Stupid Urya-patriotism - g ....
      1. Ivan_s
        Ivan_s 2 March 2015 12: 38 New
        +3
        most likely the Koreans have a homing head; Russian complexes have to be controlled manually, constantly adjusting the scope.
        1. Ivan_s
          Ivan_s 2 March 2015 12: 39 New
          +1
          although in the first Metis (he is not very large) it was possible to shoot from the shoulder, but it is difficult to hit the target
    3. PAM
      PAM 2 March 2015 13: 59 New
      +2
      Well, I don’t know, it's all plain somehow, ours is much more like soldier

      And they don’t fly laughing and, with a series (600 pieces) of trucks (for transporting soldiers) with such high protection against detonation, and with the ability to install remotely controlled combat modules with small arms, our country (unfortunately) cannot boast.
      1. cosmos111
        cosmos111 2 March 2015 14: 31 New
        +2
        Quote: PAM
        Our country (unfortunately) cannot boast of remotely controlled combat modules with light small arms.

        and our Russian av / light armored vehicles and no ....

        NIMR 6X6
        1. cosmos111
          cosmos111 2 March 2015 15: 19 New
          0
          and video from the IDEX 2015 exhibition

          infa from: http: //www.armyrecognition.com/idex_2015_news_official_online_show_daily_cover
          age / Page-2.html
  2. Noncombatant
    Noncombatant 2 March 2015 13: 58 New
    +1
    Here I thought that the 21st century will not bring peace to humanity. With an enviable tenacity worthy of better use, a person designs and produces mechanisms for the extermination of their own kind.
  3. cosmos111
    cosmos111 2 March 2015 15: 30 New
    0
    Turkish FNSS, presented at At IDEX 2015, a car and RXM (CBRN) ...

    on the BBM chassis PARS 6x6



    info s:http://defence.pk/threads/idex-2015.360798/
  4. Professor
    Professor 2 March 2015 18: 47 New
    +1
    Also at the IDEX 2015, the Raybolt man-portable anti-tank guided missile was demonstrated.

    Congratulations to Koreans on joining the 3rd generation ATGM manufacturers club which includes the USA, Israel, France and China. love
    1. svp67
      svp67 2 March 2015 18: 59 New
      0
      Quote: Professor
      Congratulations to Koreans for joining the 3rd generation ATGM manufacturers club which includes the USA, Israel, France and China

      hi Professor, what about Poland? She also produces your "Spikes" ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 2 March 2015 19: 54 New
        0
        Quote: svp67
        Professor, what about Poland? She also produces your "Spikes" ...

        IMHO collects more than produces.
    2. Ivan_s
      Ivan_s 2 March 2015 20: 26 New
      +1
      ... and the Koreans drew inspiration from Russian products ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 2 March 2015 20: 30 New
        0
        Quote: Ivan_s
        ... and the Koreans drew inspiration from Russian products ...

        How so. A mixture of Javelin and Spike. bully


        1. Ivan_s
          Ivan_s 2 March 2015 20: 38 New
          +2
          The Korean army purchased the 9K115-2 Metis-M missile system from Russia (KBP) as an interim solution, what exactly was taken from there for Raybolt is not said, but they do not deny the fact of the use of certain technologies.
          1. Professor
            Professor 2 March 2015 20: 43 New
            +2
            Quote: Ivan_s
            The Korean army purchased the 9K115-2 Metis-M missile system from Russia (KBP) as an interim solution, what exactly was taken from there for Raybolt is not said, but they do not deny the fact of the use of certain technologies.

            The Korean army purchased the Spike missile system from Israel (Rafael) as an interim solution, what exactly was taken from there for Raybolt is not said, but they do not deny the fact of the use of certain technologies.

            1. Ivan_s
              Ivan_s 2 March 2015 21: 01 New
              0
              The current arsenal of means of the South Korean Armed Forces to combat tanks includes the American heavy ATGM (anti-tank missile system) TOW, Russian man-portable missile systems "Metis-M", recoilless guns (BO) caliber 90 and 106 mm, anti-tank grenade launchers PzF-3 and disposable anti-tank M72 LAW grenade launchers. Of these, only the Russian Metis-M anti-tank missile systems and recoilless guns have not yet become obsolete, but these BOs are not able to penetrate the armor of North Korean main battle tanks, moreover, they are not equipped with night sights.

              October 14, 2014, SEOUL, report of the command of the ground forces of South Korea.
              1. Ivan_s
                Ivan_s 2 March 2015 21: 14 New
                0
                As a means of firing at enemy coastal artillery, the military of the Republic of Korea chose Israeli-made Spike NLOS missile systems. In mid-2011, the South Korean armed forces ordered about 60 such missiles and two launchers from Israel. According to the Joseon Ilbo newspaper, already at the stage of choosing missiles, the military made one major miscalculation. They did not conduct their own tests in their own conditions, but completely confided in the fact that Spike was tested by the British military. Such an absentee “recommendation” was considered sufficient. However, the negative consequences of such a step are now being clarified.

                First of all, some features of the Spike NLOS missile control system have been criticized by the largest South Korean newspaper. On one automobile or caterpillar (at the request of the customer) chassis four transport-launch containers with rockets and only one control system are standardly installed. The missile manufacturer, the Rafael concern, claims that the missile guidance can follow three methods: “shot and forget”, “shot, checked and sent” and “shot and brought to the target”. Not all conditions can completely entrust the guidance of missiles to automation, so the operator will have to not only search for the target and launch rockets. If the operator will have to independently “lead” each rocket, the rate of fire will not be high enough. For example, when firing from Yonphendo Island at coastal targets (a distance of the order of 12-15 kilometers) the rocket will reach the target only in 80-90 seconds. Thus, at the same time, only two guided missiles fired from two combat vehicles will be able to fly to targets on the coast, and the next such salvo will be possible only after some time. Finally, after all the ready-to-use ammunition is fired off, the calculations of both combat vehicles will begin reloading, which also takes time.
                1. Ivan_s
                  Ivan_s 2 March 2015 21: 16 New
                  +2
                  Another problem with Spike NLOS complexes was the inconsistency with the Korean Peninsula. There are often fogs in the area of ​​Yonphendo and Pennёndo islands and because of this it is difficult to direct missiles using only optical surveillance systems. According to a South Korean officer who shared his thoughts with the newspaper, mists dramatically reduce the combat effectiveness of missiles. It is worth noting that the scope of the Spike NLOS complex also has a thermal imaging channel, but its effectiveness is still the subject of controversy.
                2. Professor
                  Professor 2 March 2015 21: 27 New
                  0
                  Quote: Ivan_s
                  If the operator has to independently “conduct” each missile, then the rate of fire will not be high enough.

                  The flight speed of the rocket does not depend on the control mode.

                  Quote: Ivan_s
                  It is worth noting that the scope of the Spike NLOS complex also has a thermal imaging channel, but its effectiveness is still the subject of controversy.

                  Would you give a lot to see at least out of the corner of your eye how a Non-Line of Sight sight looks? wink

                  PS
                  The Koreans were so disappointed in Spikes that they created his clone. laughing


                  1. Ivan_s
                    Ivan_s 2 March 2015 21: 43 New
                    0
                    The flight speed of the rocket does not depend on the control mode, but the search for the next target and guidance on it is time.

                    about - the thermal imaging channel - is intended for observing objects in the infrared region of the spectrum, for the accurate detection of thermal objects, you don’t know ...

                    but as for copying the spike itself, I won’t say it; it’s more like a mixture of Americanos and himself, etc.

                    I don’t say that the spike is bad, I wanted to say that even the 3rd generation technique has disadvantages, and even better if there wasn’t any chance to confirm or refute the fears in practice.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 2 March 2015 21: 55 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      The flight speed of the rocket does not depend on the control mode, but the search for the next target and guidance on it is time.

                      Time, flight speed, distance does not depend on the guidance mode.

                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      about - the thermal imaging channel - is intended for observing objects in the infrared region of the spectrum, for the accurate detection of thermal objects, you don’t know ...

                      "sight" for the Non-Line of Sight system? Wonders. request

                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      but as for copying the spike itself, I won’t say it; it’s more like a mixture of Americanos and himself, etc.

                      Only Metis does not smell here.
                      1. Ivan_s
                        Ivan_s 2 March 2015 22: 12 New
                        0
                        if we are talking about the Spike NLOS complex - we mean the time spent by the operator to conduct the missile ("shot and brought to the target.")

                        I don't understand - "sight" for the Non-Line of Sight system? (remote control by two-way electro-optical image transmission system)

                        Do you think that Koreans suffered for a long time with their appearance? maybe the mestizo is not in the "launch system" ... but there is still a lot of interesting things
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 2 March 2015 22: 23 New
                        0
                        Quote: Ivan_s
                        if we are talking about the Spike NLOS complex - we mean the time spent by the operator to conduct the missile ("shot and brought to the target.")

                        The missile flight time does not depend on the guidance mode. The operator always at the initial stage "guides" the UFO missile if there is no illumination.

                        Quote: Ivan_s
                        I don't understand - "sight" for the Non-Line of Sight system? (- a question about soldering ???)

                        Yes. It is about him that you posted the opinion of a "specialist".

                        Quote: Ivan_s
                        Do you think that Koreans suffered for a long time with appearance? maybe a mestizo is not in the launch system ... but there is still a lot of interesting things

                        For example?
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 2 March 2015 22: 36 New
                        0
                        Quote: Professor
                        The flight time of the rocket does not depend on the guidance mode.

                        C'mon ... It depends. The fastest radio command

                        But here we are talking about the time spent on one goal. Time per cycle "detection - decision - defeat"
                        The YuKi believe that in terms of natural conditions, they would be more suited to a launcher with "Helfires" of the third generation.
                      4. Professor
                        Professor 3 March 2015 09: 52 New
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        C'mon ... It depends. The fastest radio command

                        For those who entered into a dispute without understanding what is at stake, I explain: regardless of the "fire-forget", "fire-correct-forget" or "fire-aimed" mode, the same rocket flies at the same speed. Moreover, even the slide or straight mode has practically no effect on the rocket speed.
                    2. Ivan_s
                      Ivan_s 2 March 2015 23: 05 New
                      +2
                      But it often happens that the refinement is in the process of flight, especially if the target moves at a low speed in smoke, fog is not important. During the flight there is an alignment or final guidance. So?

                      the name of this missile (up to 25 kilometers) - NLOS uses remote control using a two-way electro-optical image transmission system (type "sight") closed the question?

                      I can’t say (and no one will say) what kind of “mestizo” technologies the Koreans used to create their ATGM, but I think that this is quite possible ... these are just guesses
                    3. Professor
                      Professor 3 March 2015 09: 56 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      But it often happens that the refinement is in the process of flight, especially if the target moves at a low speed in smoke, fog is not important. During the flight there is an alignment or final guidance. So?

                      So what? Does she wind circles over the target?

                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      the name of this missile (up to 25 kilometers) - NLOS uses remote control using a two-way electro-optical image transmission system (type "sight") closed the question?

                      No not closed. Do not confuse the GOS and the sight, these are two big differences. The NSOL in its name implies a lack of line of sight and, accordingly, a sight. If you do not agree, then show a photo of the sight and close the topic.

                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      I can’t say (and no one will say) what kind of “mestizo” technologies the Koreans used to create their ATGM, but I think that this is quite possible ... these are just guesses

                      If you can’t say, then why catch your ears: ... and the Koreans drew inspiration from Russian products ... ??? request
                    4. Ivan_s
                      Ivan_s 5 March 2015 09: 56 New
                      0
                      Quote: Professor
                      So what? Does she wind circles over the target?


                      we are talking about the time that the operator spends, and not the rocket (until the first launched rocket hits the target, the second cannot be launched - a control feature of the complex)

                      Quote: Professor
                      If you can’t say, then why catch your ears: ... and the Koreans drew inspiration from Russian products ... ???


                      The Korean side praised the technical and operational capabilities delivered by the KBP SUE to the Republic of Korea Metis-M ATGM and reported on the existing intentions of the Armed Forces of the Republic of Kazakhstan in the additional purchase of the upgraded Metis-M1 complex.

                      The parties discussed issues on the agenda and agreed on the procedure and timing for the after-sales service of the Metis-M ATGM. The Korean side showed interest in carrying out activities related to the extension of the life cycle of the Metis-M anti-tank system after the completion of the technical suitability of the complex.

                      Well, what is not a reason for inspiration ..?

                      but what can you take from the Spike-NLOS "Tamuz" complex? The weight of such a complex - 70-71 kg - cannot be put on your shoulder ... the Koreans took it only because of the "range", after long refinements (during the first tests out of 10 new modifications launched, most of them failed to hit their targets), sheer disappointment ...

                      Quote: Professor
                      The NSOL in its name implies a lack of line of sight and, accordingly, a sight.


                      as such (there is no generally accepted sight) but the operator is looking at the monitor
                      (by means of a two-way electron-optical image transmission system) sees a crosshair this is what was meant by the word scope in this case.
                    5. Professor
                      Professor 5 March 2015 11: 33 New
                      0
                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      we are talking about the time that the operator spends, and not the rocket (until the first launched rocket hits the target, the second cannot be launched - a control feature of the complex)

                      No. The "fire-forget" complex means that when the missile seeker has captured the target, the operator can do whatever he wants, drink coffee or launch the next missile.


                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      Well, what is not a reason for inspiration ..?

                      Dear materiel, materiel. The presented complex is very reminiscent of Spike, not Metis, and according to your inspiration they scooped it from Metis. Hm ...

                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      but what can you take from the Spike-NLOS "Tamuz" complex?

                      GOS, algorithm, warhead, etc.

                      Quote: Ivan_s
                      this is what was meant by the word scope in this case.

                      No need to fantasize. "GOS" is "GOS", and "sight" is "sight".
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 2 March 2015 22: 38 New
        +1
        Quote: Professor
        The Koreans were so disappointed in Spikes that they created his clone.

        Are you sure this is not a Javelin clone?
        1. Professor
          Professor 3 March 2015 10: 04 New
          0
          Quote: Spade
          Are you sure this is not a Javelin clone?

          I’m not sure, however, SK does not have Javelin in contrast to Spike, and their system looks very much like Spike. request
          1. Ivan_s
            Ivan_s 5 March 2015 09: 58 New
            0
            I want to note the system acquired by the Spike NLOS Koreans is a long-range option. The SK has nothing to do with the shoulder complex.
          2. Professor
            Professor 5 March 2015 11: 34 New
            0
            Quote: Ivan_s
            I want to note the system acquired by the Spike NLOS Koreans is a long-range option. The SK has nothing to do with the shoulder complex.

            So nothing? GOS, algorithm, warhead ...
  • Professor
    Professor 2 March 2015 21: 16 New
    0
    Quote: Ivan_s
    Of these, only the Russian Metis-M anti-tank missile systems and recoilless guns have not yet become obsolete, but these BOs are not able to penetrate the armor of North Korean main battle tanks, moreover, they are not equipped with night sights.

    ATGM training firing third generation Spike by the armed forces of South Korea:


    Are the spikes out of date? wink
    1. Ivan_s
      Ivan_s 2 March 2015 21: 20 New
      +2
      you mean the Spike NLOS complex (The effective range of this missile is up to 25 kilometers. The weight of the missile in the packaging container is 71 kilograms.) According to reports, the South Korean military last year sent a list of complaints to Rafael. Since then, some work has been going on, but so far there has been no tangible shift. It is reported that test launches were made in the fall and winter, some of which were successful. In March, Israeli specialists managed to make three successful launches in foggy conditions. The Ministry of Defense of the Republic, according to which it is too early to adopt and purchase the new modification. According to this military man, tests in Israel were carried out in desert conditions, which is significantly different from the realities of the area where new missiles are to be operated.
  • 31rus
    31rus 2 March 2015 20: 29 New
    +2
    Dear ones, this proves once again without our developed electronics in the arms market, we will soon have nothing to do
  • Mentat
    Mentat 5 March 2015 18: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    Congratulations to Koreans on joining the 3rd generation ATGM manufacturers club which includes the USA, Israel, France and China. love

    Wearable anti-tank systems "3rd generation" are mostly marketing nonsense with exorbitant cost, which is what bring great joy and emoji with flowers to arms manufacturers. How much is the cost of a shot, $ 250? Accordingly, the appropriateness of the application is limited to high value goals. From Russian 000/2 + systems, you can fire at least at dugouts and huts in batches.

    In practice, in a real conflict, the advantages of "3rd generation" wearable systems are at least controversial.

    It is for reasons of expediency that Russian manufacturers decided not to launch homing missiles at this stage, and not because it is impossible, but we would urgently need to get into some great club.
    1. Professor
      Professor 5 March 2015 19: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      How much is the cost of a shot, $ 250?

      2.5 million wassat

      Quote: Mentat
      Accordingly, the appropriateness of application is limited by objectives high value.






      Quote: Mentat
      In practice, in a real conflict, the advantages of "3rd generation" wearable systems are at least controversial.

      Indisputable.


      Quote: Mentat
      It is for reasons of expediency that Russian manufacturers decided not to launch homing missiles at this stage, and not because it is impossible, but we would urgently need to get into some great club.

      Yah? Cars of class BMW and Porsche also simply decided not to produce "for reasons of expediency"? laughing
  • Mentat
    Mentat 5 March 2015 20: 31 New
    -1
    Quote: Mentat
    How much is the cost of a shot, $ 250?
    Quote: Professor
    2.5 million

    The cheapest shot $ 40 Continuing to shoot in batches?


    Quote: Mentat
    In practice, in a real conflict, the advantages of "3rd generation" wearable systems are at least controversial.

    Quote: Professor
    Indisputable.

    Your video just demonstrates the total nonsense of wearable 3rd generation ATGMs. Will each tank have a large target with a bold cross? Will there be a stationary launcher in battle? The problem with these complexes is that it is difficult to install a guidance head with sane characteristics on a missile of such dimensions, its resolution on the verge of minimally sufficient, which causes difficulties with aiming. This is where the fantastic cost of a shot arises (for a portable anti-tank system) of ~ $ 200 if they try to somehow solve this problem.

    In the above videos of gallant soldiers firing ATGMs in practice, you do not see the advantages of the "3rd generation type" at all. And the cost of a shot, let me remind you, is measured in tens of thousands of dollars least.

    Quote: Mentat
    It is for reasons of expediency that Russian manufacturers decided not to launch homing missiles at this stage, and not because it is impossible, but we would urgently need to get into some great club.
    Yah? Cars of class BMW and Porsche also simply decided not to produce "for reasons of expediency"? laughing

    Professor, judging by your comments, it seems that you are not a professor, but a troll. The consumer market and the military-industrial complex are radically different things, and they are developing almost independently. You kind of pretend to be some kind of involvement in the military-industrial complex, so why write such nonsense?
    1. Professor
      Professor 5 March 2015 21: 15 New
      -1
      Quote: Mentat
      The cheapest shot $ 40 Continuing to shoot in batches?

      How quickly rockets get cheaper. And how much is Cornet today? wink

      Quote: Mentat
      Will each tank have a large target with a bold cross?




      Quote: Mentat
      The problem with these complexes is that it is difficult to install a guidance head with sane characteristics on a missile of such dimensions, its resolution on the verge of minimally sufficient, which causes difficulties with aiming. This is where the fantastic cost of a shot arises (for a portable anti-tank system) of ~ $ 200 if they try to somehow solve this problem.

      These are your fantasies and nothing more. GOS is complicated (this explains its absence in Russia), but it copes with its work.

      Quote: Mentat
      In the above videos of gallant soldiers firing ATGMs in practice, the advantages of the "3rd generation type" are not visible at all. And the cost of a shot, let me remind you, is measured in tens of thousands of dollars at least.

      Well, lay out the 2nd generation ATGM combat shooting videos and compare. What about the cost of Cornet? wink

      Quote: Mentat
      Professor, judging by your comments, it seems that you are not a professor, but a troll.

      Convinced. Confirm your "arguments" about "It was for reasons of expediency that the Russian manufacturers decided not to release homing missiles at this stage" and we will continue our conversation. While it reminds of the fable "fox and grapes". request
  • Mentat
    Mentat 5 March 2015 22: 11 New
    -1
    Professor, your post is a collection of rubbish.

    1. “How quickly rockets are getting cheaper” - the problem is precisely that they are not getting cheaper, but are getting more expensive due to the described technical difficulties. GOS devoid of these shortcomings have an inefficient cost.

    "How much is the Cornet?" Several times cheaper. Depending on what exactly is cheaper, from 3 to 7 times. If you do not take into account expensive GOS without problems with resolution and image scaling. Compared to these economic “masterpieces”, the Cornet is 20 times cheaper.

    2.IDF Spike Missile Destroys Hamas Rocket Team ~ isis airstrike footage
    Are you the readers of Military Review you take for whom, for complete idiots or what?
    We are talking about portable anti-tank systems, you give a video of the use of a rocket from the air with an operator adjusting the course. There is a second option, of course, that you yourself don’t understand what you bring there, the main thing is that the crosses and crosses on the screen are thumping.

    3.
    - The problem with these complexes is that it is difficult to install a guidance head with sane characteristics on a missile of such dimensions
    - These are your fantasies and no more

    The fact of the matter is that these are the technological realities of today. There are no miniature thermal imaging seekers with sane characteristics. What they are setting now is a bunch of compromises with a rather big price.
    Problems from this arise: low resolution, which makes it difficult to aim, problems with scaling the image when approaching the target. Which in turn leads to the question of the applicability of these funds in a dynamic combat environment.
    The practical time per shot is increased.

    4. “GOS is complicated (this explains its absence in Russia)”
    This explains its economic inexpediency. Everything rests on the cost of a shot.

    In fact, of interest is only the idea of ​​a compact shooting system beyond the scope of the review. But at this stage of technological development, GOS for these purposes is unreasonably expensive. This is the only reason for the lack of such a serial complex in Russia.
    1. Professor
      Professor 5 March 2015 22: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: Mentat
      Professor, your post is a collection of rubbish.

      But your storehouse of fantasy knowledge.

      Quote: Mentat
      1. “How quickly rockets are getting cheaper” - the problem is precisely that they are not getting cheaper, but are getting more expensive due to the described technical difficulties. GOS devoid of these shortcomings have an inefficient cost.

      At first they cost $ 250 per shot, then they became $ 000 each. Both are much cheaper than a tank.

      Quote: Mentat
      Are you the readers of Military Review you take for whom, for complete idiots or what?
      We are talking about portable anti-tank systems, you give a video of the use of a rocket from the air with an operator adjusting the course. There is a second option, of course, that you yourself don’t understand what you bring there, the main thing is that the crosses and crosses on the screen are thumping.

      Well, how do I know? I’m a famous troll. Here you are now enlighten me and the whole forum how the guidance system of the portable Spike-SR and the portable Spike-ER, for example, differ. wassat

      Quote: Mentat
      Problems from this arise: low resolution, which makes it difficult to aim, problems with scaling the image when approaching the target. Which in turn leads to the question of the applicability of these funds in a dynamic combat environment.

      Imagine, I have a miniature high-resolution video camera on my smartphone, and on Spike with a total weight lighter than the Cornet there are two three-mode seekers. Wonders. fellow

      Quote: Mentat
      This explains its economic inexpediency. Everything rests on the cost of a shot.

      Everything rests on the technological backwardness of this country and no more. China, France, Korea, the United States and Israel themselves created third-generation ATGMs (they simply did not consult with you "), and another 3 dozen countries purchased these systems despite their" economic inexpediency. "Well, stupid ... fool

      Quote: Mentat
      This is the only reason for the lack of such a serial complex in Russia.

      Hungry godfather Fox climbed into the garden;
      In it the grapes of the brush were held.
      At the cinque, eyes and teeth were inflamed;
      And the brushes are lush, like sapphires, burning;
      Only trouble, they hang high:
      Wherever she goes to them,
      Though he sees the eye,
      Yes, tooth noumet.

      Having made it through the whole hour,
      She went and said annoyed: "Well then!
      At a glance, he is good,
      Yes, green - no mature berries:
      Immediately you will nag off. "

      PS
      Well, lay out the 2nd generation ATGM combat shooting videos and compare. What about the cost of Cornet? What is its price? How much in $?
  • Mentat
    Mentat 6 March 2015 00: 30 New
    -1
    Quote: Professor
    At first they cost $ 250 per shot, then they became $ 000 each. Both are much cheaper than a tank.

    It seemed to me not hard to guess that this is an approximate minimum and maximum.
    Tanks are cheaper, but in practice they do not differ in effectiveness from portable Russian products of generation 2+, and the latter have a higher resolution of the sight, and the cost is several times less. Where is the meaning of the mysterious "3rd generation"? This is not the third generation, this is a minor mutant.
    The only thing that Russia does not yet have is NLOS systems, but more on that below.

    Well, how do I know? I’m a famous troll. Here you are now enlighten me and the whole forum how the guidance system of the portable Spike-SR and the portable Spike-ER, for example, differ.

    You want to say that this is the advantage of a portable system? The advantage is that the transported complex has the same muddy picture as the fart for the close combat? This, Professor, is a fucking advantage!

    Quote: Professor
    Imagine, I have a miniature high-resolution video camera on my smartphone, and on Spike with a total weight lighter than the Cornet there are two three-mode seekers. Wonders. fellow

    Miracles begin when the user of the magical complex from the fable “Fox and Grapes”, who is sleeping and sees how Russia wants to get it, tries to make out something in the muddy picture in the sight.

    For some reason, the miraculous miniaturization of thermal imagers fails, unlike optical cameras. At the same time, the user shoots a suitcase with bucks at a pair of bandos with a grenade launcher of the sample of the 50th year. This is brave!

    Quote: Mentat
    This explains its economic inexpediency. Everything rests on the cost of a shot.
    Quote: Professor
    Everything rests on the technological backwardness of this country and no more. China, France, Korea, the United States and Israel themselves created third-generation ATGMs (they simply did not consult with you "), and another 3 dozen countries purchased these systems despite their" economic inexpediency. "Well, stupid ... fool
    Purchased by NATO standards. And NATO standards are created taking into account the appetites of the military-industrial complex.
    In addition, these countries do not have their own systems, which the West calls “generation 2+”. Where do they run, where to go? :)


    And now about NLOS-ah.
    The idea is attractive, no doubt. But let's try to create a hypothetical combat mission, where they may be required by the Russian Armed Forces today and in the near future.
    ... [Shooting tanks in the mountains?]
    ... [Eliminating Arabs behind a tripod in the desert without walking close?]
    ... [Play Worms in the Cador Gorge?]
    Result: no such tasks [or they are solved by other, cheaper and simpler means].

    Well, what for a goat button accordion?
    1. Professor
      Professor 6 March 2015 08: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Mentat
      It seemed to me not hard to guess that this is an approximate minimum and maximum.

      When it seems necessary ...
      How much is a Cornet? How much does Red Arrow cost? Your trilling is starting to bother.

      Quote: Mentat
      Tanks are cheaper, but in practice they do not differ in effectiveness from portable Russian products of generation 2+, and the latter have a higher resolution of the sight, and the cost is several times less. Where is the meaning of the mysterious "3rd generation"? This is not the third generation, this is a minor mutant.

      Your materiel is bad. At a distance of 10 km, the 2nd and 3rd generation complexes "see" the target equally poorly, however, as the 2rd generation ATGM approaches the target, it "sees" the target better and better, the XNUMXnd generation continues to "see" poorly. So much for the resolution.

      For the third and last time I ask lay out the 2nd generation ATGM combat shooting videos and compare.

      Quote: Mentat
      For some reason, the miraculous miniaturization of thermal imagers fails, unlike optical cameras.

      Learn the materiel. She already succeeded:
      I can put less wink

      Quote: Mentat
      Purchased by NATO standards. And NATO standards are created taking into account the appetites of the military-industrial complex.

      In your opinion, these 2 dozen countries in NATO:
      Australia
      Bahrain
      Georgia
      Finland
      Indonesia
      Jordan
      New Zealand
      Oman
      Qatar
      Taiwan
      United Arab Emirates
      India
      Azerbaijan
      Chile
      Colombia
      Ecuador
      Israel
      Peru
      Singapore
      South Korea
      China
      I realized they were all dumb or sawing a budget. laughing

      Quote: Mentat
      You want to say that this is the advantage of a portable system?

      I want to hear from a "specialist" about the difference between the guidance system of a wearable and a transportable ATGM, because I am "readers of "Military Review" for whom I accept, for complete idiots".
      We are talking about portable anti-tank systems, you give a video of the use of a rocket from the air with an operator adjusting the course. There is a second option, of course, that you yourself don’t understand what you bring there, the main thing is that the crosses and crosses on the screen are thumping.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 7 March 2015 15: 53 New
    0
    Quote: Professor

    How much is a Cornet? How much does Red Arrow cost? Your trilling is starting to bother.

    Would you still with some Pakistani dividing Cornet-Э compared.
    Your requirements resemble some kind of kindergarten with shorts on the straps - no one will disclose commercial information to you. Many times cheaper than the 3rd generation. Specific customers receive specific conditions.

    Quote: Professor

    You have a bad materiel. At a distance of 10 km, the complex of the 2nd and third generation sees the target equally poorly, however, as the 3rd generation ATGM approaches the target, it sees the target better and better, the 2nd generation continues to see poorly. There you have the resolution.

    Well, you, Professor, are simply amazed by the knowledge of hardware and horizons)
    Your wearable complexes do not shoot for 10 km, let's start from this, so go yourself and learn the materiel about your own products, lol.
    As you approach the goal, your products begin to have problems with scaling, because your phantasmagoric miniature thermal imagers are not able to provide a high-quality image due to their size.
    This is a well-known difficulty caused by downsizing, why are you trying to lie, that this is not so, it is not clear. Rather, it’s clear, but lying, Professor, is nevertheless not good. Face it, be brave))
    1. Professor
      Professor 7 March 2015 19: 07 New
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      Many times cheaper than the 3rd generation. Specific customers receive specific conditions.

      Specifically, how much? (I have information on the Javelins and the Spikes and the Cornets) wink

      Quote: Mentat
      As you approach the goal, your products begin to have problems with scaling, because your phantasmagoric miniature thermal imagers are not able to provide a high-quality image due to their size

      Confirm your fantasies with facts, links, videos ...

      Quote: Mentat
      This is a well-known difficulty caused by downsizing, why are you trying to lie, that this is not so, it is not clear.

      It was decided back in the distant 1990s by Dr. Liviu Singer, learn the materiel.

      Show the video again? wink

      Quote: Mentat
      Rather, it’s clear, but lying, Professor, is nevertheless not good. Face it, be brave))

      Let's face it together. On the face of problems with scaling laughing :


      Quote: Mentat
      Why clutter up a message? Hundreds of these videos on YouTube, write in the text what you want to demonstrate or give a demonstration video yourself, which demonstrates why these wagging?

      Hundreds? So it will not be difficult for you to lay out one indicative confirming your words?

      Quote: Mentat
      Sucks she succeeds.

      Have you learned the materiel? Have you considered a thermal imager? I'm happy for you.

      How is it about "They are purchased according to NATO standards. And NATO standards are created taking into account the appetites of the military-industrial complex."No comment? It's understandable.

      This was my last comment to you. I’m not going to feed you more. Learn materiel. hi
  • Mentat
    Mentat 7 March 2015 15: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Professor
    For the third and last time I ask, lay out the commercials of the 2nd generation ATGM combat shooting and compare.

    Why clutter up a message? Hundreds of these videos on YouTube, write in the text what you want to demonstrate or give a demonstration video yourself, which demonstrates why these wagging?

    Quote: Mentat
    For some reason, the miraculous miniaturization of thermal imagers fails, unlike optical cameras.
    Quote: Professor
    Learn the materiel. She already succeeded:
    I can put less wink

    Sucks she succeeds. Therefore, in fact, there is so far no particular sense in such missiles. The road and the special fountain are not visible.
    What is the capture time of Javelin, 30 seconds? Is this a joke or a mockery? In a fight, should a fighter capture a target for 30 seconds? And you still argue that the "3rd generation" is not a mutant freak?

    - Stay still, do not move, sneaky enemy tanks, mine will shoot at you now! - the brave Arabian cried out, trying to get hold of the target from the latest shaitan pipe, purchased to show off in front of his neighbors. This went on for half an hour, the enemy tank constantly drove for bushes and shacks. But capturing the target turned out to be an exciting electronic game on the display, so the brave Arab military did not get bored.

    The problem with the resolution has not gone away. She is, and you write with infantile obstinacy that there is none of this.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 7 March 2015 15: 55 New
    0
    Quote: Mentat
    Purchased by NATO standards. And NATO standards are created taking into account the appetites of the military-industrial complex.
    Quote: Professor
    In your opinion, these 2 dozen countries in NATO

    And did you buy large quantities? smile
    Especially China delivers. Of course, he bought a very large batch)) To take a closer look at your successes in miniaturization :)

    I realized they were all dumb or sawing a budget. laughing

    They are not stupid. Your ingenious microthermal imagers costing a suitcase of bucks are bought by research parties, and the backbone for the army is being recruited by 2nd generation systems: TOW, Predator, MILAN, HOT, Eryx.

    Quote: Mentat
    You want to say that this is the advantage of a portable system?
    Quote: Professor
    I want to hear from a specialist about the difference between the guidance system of the portable and portable ATGM, because I readers of "Military Review" for whom I accept, for complete idiots.

    Express your opinion directly what you want to show. Your products, you give a comparison or what you want to do.
    1. Professor
      Professor 7 March 2015 19: 11 New
      0
      Quote: Mentat
      And did you buy large quantities?

      Google to the rescue.

      Quote: Mentat
      They are not stupid.

      What then did they buy so expensive and stupid complexes? Indeed, 2nd generation ATGMs are more efficient ...

      Quote: Mentat
      Express your opinion directly what you want to show. Your products, you give a comparison or what you want to do.

      More as promised, I do not feed.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 7 March 2015 21: 18 New
    0
    Professor, I do not need a total exposure and tearing of the covers.
    Buyers, as you rightly pointed out, do not go * you, and they themselves perfectly understand what they are dealing with. For the numbers on the size of the procurement lots, you send to Google, because the hand itself does not rise to print this laugh, which is measured at best by dozens of complexes. As already written, these are research parties.
    The main purchases in the Western armies are made by complexes of the 2nd generation.

    In the video of the test (which is indicative of itself) launch that you once again cited, the very “scaling problem” is clearly visible. You either lack an elementary technical outlook to understand what it is about, or you just continue to brazenly lie in the hope that no one understands what it is about.

    Guidance missiles carried out on a memorized circuit. When approaching a target, if this target maneuvers, moves quickly, and does not stand still and a huge white cross is not painted on it, the picture on the thermal imager no longer coincides (and cannot coincide) with the memorized contour, and there is a high probability of a miss. In order to level it, it is necessary to make a “departure”, change the focal length. Your products do not know how to do this. Or use the electronic scaling operations with wide-angle optics, but this is impossible, because The resolution of the miniature thermal imager is too low. This is the problem of scaling. Fershtein, "Professor"?

    In addition, a huge time for capturing the target, up to comedy 30 seconds, during which there is still the possibility of disrupting this capture itself, lol.

    You can also add that the storage time without maintenance and control for 2/2 + generation rockets is 10 years, for 3rd generation rockets ~ 0,5-2 years.

    Conclusion: the “3rd generation” ATGM at the moment is nothing more than a technological toy for the military or, if more scientifically, a “working prototype”.

    I am leaving for the sim, as everything has already been said and everything on this topic is clear.
  • Mentat
    Mentat 7 March 2015 22: 17 New
    +1
    As a cherry for a cake, in response to your attempts to swell and imitate a proud spherical frog, let me remind you that Russia has Hermes complexes with a range of 100 km, several types of homing and a missile flight speed of almost 3M on the marching section, while your PTRK snails crawl at 150-180 m / s. Israel does not even dream of such complexes.
  • Ivan the Fool
    Ivan the Fool 9 March 2015 15: 47 New
    0
    There would be more pictures!