“Su-30MKI” vs. “Rafale”: the battle for 20 billion dollars

130


The final stage of the fight for the right to re-equip the air forces of India with new fighters is unfolding in the Indian city of Bangalore. Price issue - 20 billion dollars. This money was intended for the French, but now they can go to Russian aircraft manufacturers

These days at the airbase, located in the suburb of the Indian city of Bangalore, is the tenth aerospace exhibition "Aero India-2015". More than 600 companies from 33 countries of the world producing military aircraft, anti-aircraft missile systems, communication systems, etc., present their products on it. But special attention in Bangalore is riveted to the French Rafale fighters and Russian Su-30MKI fighters, since they are at the epicenter of the scandal associated with the desire of the Indian military to re-equip their fleet with new fighters.

In Russia, it is considered that India is the most important and most reliable buyer of Russian weapons. Indeed, more than 70% of weapons, military equipment of the Indian army, air force, navy - Russian and Soviet production. According to estimates of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, for 2013 a year the volume of Russia's commitments to supply India with weapons and military equipment amounted to almost $ 5 billion.

But at the same time, recently, the Indians began to pursue a policy of diversification of arms suppliers. One of the consequences of this policy were the results of the tender for the supply of Indian fighter jets 126, which was held at the turn of 2011-2012. Russia offered Mig-35 for this tender (an upgraded version of Mig-29), but the French company Dassault Aviation won with the Rafale fighter.

However, over the past three years, no Rafale has ever appeared in the Indian Air Force. And there are several reasons for this. First, during this time, these planes for the Indian military have doubled in price - from 10 billion dollars to almost 20 billion dollars. Secondly, the parties could not really agree on the production of these machines in India, at the factories of the Indian company HAL. According to available information, the French, for example, refused to share with HAL the production technologies of some of the components of this aircraft, and refused to extend their warranty obligations to the machines that would be made in India. Thirdly, a lot has been said lately that when summarizing the results of this tender, the cost of operating these machines for an 30-40-year perspective was not accurately calculated.

“The Indian side made a mistake when calculating the costs of servicing Rafale during the whole period of their operation,” writes, for example, the Indian newspaper Business Standard. Finally, a completely unpleasant surprise for the Indian military was the position of France regarding the Mistral helicopter carriers, which were built for Russian money at French shipyards, but have not yet been handed over to Russia. That is, France in dealing with the “Mistral” proved to be a frankly unreliable supplier of weapons, which could not but push the Indian military to sad thoughts.

Therefore, back in November last year, Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar stated that “the most adequate proposal to meet the needs of the country's Air Force is the Su-30MKI fighter”. This Russian vehicle is already being manufactured for the Indian Air Force under a Russian license at the plants of HAL Corporation. Moreover, its cost is 3,58 billion rupees (57,5 million dollars) - this is half the cost of Rafale.

The Russian side was ready for such a turn of affairs. “Which plane is better is up to the customer. But we will respect any decision of the Indian side. Nevertheless, India produces our aircraft now, under them built factories. Documentation was transferred, airbases, infrastructure for the operation of these aircraft were formed, pilots and technical personnel were trained, ”said Yuri Slyusar, being in Bangalore, President of the United Aircraft Building Corporation. “If the decision is not in favor of Rafale, we express our willingness and ability to replace it with Su-30MKI. India has already deployed facilities for the production and maintenance of this aircraft, as well as for personnel training. And it will be much more economical for the Indian side, ”said Sergey Goreslavsky, Deputy General Director of Rosoboronexport.

As a result, the French drove three Rafale fighters to the exhibition in Bangalore this year and, sparing no fuel, they show the capabilities of these aircraft "in action" for almost a week. The Russians, for their part, on Aero India-2015 continue to convince their Indian partners of the need to deepen joint military-technical cooperation. February 19, for example, the Indian Air Force solemnly handed over the first Su-30MKI fighter armed with the air version of the BrahMos-A supersonic cruise missile (this rocket is the fruit of the joint work of Russian and Indian designers). The Indian government allocates more than 30 billion dollars for the purchase of these missiles for Su-1MKI.

The joint work continues on the creation of a two-seat, advanced Fifth Generation Fighter Aircraft multifunctional fighter (FGFA) and a multi-purpose transport aircraft. “The FGFA fighter is being developed on the basis of the Russian PAK FA in accordance with the technical requirements imposed by the Indian side. The development of the program provides for the design and development of a two-seat version of the aircraft and the integration of an advanced engine with increased propulsion. Cooperation in the area of ​​joint marketing of the complex to third countries is envisaged, ”said Anatoliy Punchuk, Deputy Director of the Federal Service for Military-Technical Cooperation, on FGFA prospects.

The final decision on the Rafale fighters, according to Indian Defense Minister Manohar Parrikar, will be made in early March, after the Indian military will receive a detailed analysis of the Dassault Aviation tender offer. But, obviously, this decision will not be in favor of the French. On the other hand, for Russians this storyprobably will serve as a good lesson for the future.
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  1. +58
    28 February 2015 06: 48
    Every effort must be made for the Su-30MKI to win this battle. Firstly, 20 billion do not lie on the road, and secondly, the slaps will get a deafening slap on the face.
    1. +9
      28 February 2015 06: 55
      Quote: silver169
      Every effort must be made for the Su-30MKI to win this battle. Firstly, 20 billion do not lie on the road, and secondly, the slaps will get a deafening slap on the face.

      The truth will triumph, but it is on our side. And the French have something to think about.
      1. +5
        28 February 2015 07: 28
        Quote: silver169
        make every effort for Su-30MKI to win this battle

        The French have already made every effort for us, we just have to watch and laugh how they destroy their defense industry.
        1. +8
          28 February 2015 09: 32
          Quote: crazyrom
          The French have already made every effort for us, we just have to watch and laugh how they destroy their defense industry.

          Why is it being destroyed? They quite successfully continue to work for themselves
        2. +5
          28 February 2015 11: 03
          Quote: crazyrom
          The French have already made every effort for us, we just have to watch and laugh how they destroy their defense industry.

          Directly interested, but what is it?
          Only by the end of 2014 grew by 17%?
          For 2015, good zakaz from Egypt. Codes are not bad at the end of AIR INDIA 2015. But if (most likely) a contract for rafals is added here, then everything is fine with them.
          http://www.janes.com/article/48908/french-defence-exports-rose-17-in-2014?from_r
          ss = 1
        3. 0
          28 February 2015 13: 52
          I totally agree.
        4. +11
          28 February 2015 14: 45
          Quote: crazyrom
          , we just have to watch and laugh how they destroy their defense industry.

          Just amazing self-confidence! In the Russian language there is a unique saying that is absent in other languages: “Laughter for no reason is a sign of foolishness.”
          1. +1
            28 February 2015 21: 30
            Quote: Bayonet
            “Laughter for no reason is a sign of foolishness.”

            Do not boast, going to the army! At one time it was - we’ll throw our hats, now WHY?
      2. +8
        28 February 2015 07: 50
        and Obama thinks for the French.
        1. +5
          28 February 2015 11: 03
          I have doubts.
          Or maybe it would be better for Russia to build more modern aircraft for itself?

          It would be nice to arm India, but we ourselves must first.
          1. +10
            28 February 2015 11: 18
            Quote: Sergey S.
            I have doubts.
            Or maybe it would be better for Russia to build more modern aircraft for itself?

            It would be nice to arm India, but we ourselves must first.

            Money is not taken from the air, dear
            1. 0
              28 February 2015 21: 36
              Quote: Pimply
              Money is not taken from the air, dear

              Economics = Mathematics, these are not even sciences, but determinants of the life that we deserve! Forgive me mathematicians! Invariance still exists!
      3. +4
        28 February 2015 14: 49
        Quote: silver169
        Every effort must be made for the Su-30MKI to win this battle.

        Quote: subbtin.725
        The truth will triumph, and she is on our side

        Nevertheless, the French have already made great concessions to the Indians and it is very possible that this contract is being deferred ...
      4. +1
        28 February 2015 21: 25
        Quote: subbtin.725
        .And the French have something to think about

        Where to get rubber products for protection against mattress collision!
    2. +13
      28 February 2015 07: 03
      Quote: silver169
      Every effort must be made for the Su-30MKI to win this battle.


      I would like to. However, the Indians have been pursuing a policy of diversification of armaments for several years. As one example, purchases of the much more expensive S-130 and S-17 transporters, instead of the inexpensive and reliable IL-76/476.
      Therefore, it is highly probable that the hype around Rafale is not so much the goal of rejecting the deal as a banal bargaining around the price and technology transfer.
      1. +8
        28 February 2015 09: 56
        I completely agree with you, and the competition was held for a light car, which is more concerned not so much with the MGH as with the prices of both the board itself and the cost of the life cycle. And according to the latter parameter, it is rather frivolous to compare "30k" with "Rafal". , Indians are traded in such an oriental manner.
        1. +1
          28 February 2015 10: 11
          Quote: Argon
          Most likely, Indians are traded in such an oriental manner.

          That's right. And they bargained as a result, the contract will be signed in April
          1. +4
            28 February 2015 10: 36
            Quote: Pimply
            That's right. And they bargained as a result, the contract will be signed in April

            Knowing the Indians, it is difficult to assert with full confidence that they will sign, nevertheless, it is probably more correct to "intend to sign" in April, but most likely they will sign it.
            The Indians need something to replace the Mig-21, which they have about 300 pieces, unfortunately the MiG corporation could not win the tender, the MiG needs to make a new light front-line fighter aircraft in the future, it seems like they have decided on the interceptor.
            1. +2
              28 February 2015 10: 46
              Quote: saturn.mmm
              Knowing the Indians, it is difficult to assert with full confidence that they will sign, nevertheless, it is probably more correct to "intend to sign" in April, but most likely they will sign it.
              The Indians need something to replace the Mig-21, which they have about 300 pieces, unfortunately the MiG corporation could not win the tender, the MiG needs to make a new light front-line fighter aircraft in the future, it seems like they have decided on the interceptor.

              I agree. But they managed to overcome the main disagreements - so most likely in April the topic will wrap up
            2. Kassandra
              +1
              1 March 2015 00: 21
              she could not participate in it - someone very "gifted" invented the requirement that the participating fighter should be in the arsenal of the producing country.
              that is, they don’t need the latest, they need an pepelats which has already started to become obsolete bully

              here on the T-50 for some reason there was no such requirement ...
              1. 0
                1 March 2015 00: 41
                Quote: Kassandra
                she could not participate in it - someone very "gifted" invented the requirement that the participating fighter should be in the arsenal of the producing country.
                that is, they don’t need the latest, they need an pepelats which has already started to become obsolete

                No, I just didn’t need a fighter that would be cool in theory.
                I chew on what the difference is, and why if 4 ++ is already taken, the client wants a tried and tested machine and at the same time at the limit of technology?
                1. Kassandra
                  0
                  1 March 2015 10: 43
                  they just needed to beat off the MiG-35, which in practice is superior to Raphael.
                  ancient MiG-29 and then it surpasses, but not so much

                  Again, how does such a strange approach correlate with India's interest in the "untested" T-50, which is just at the limit of technology? bully

                  no, it’s not worth it ... judging by your presentation, it’s clear whose Mumbai pseudopods there stick out in the strange conditions of this tender. laughing
                  1. +1
                    1 March 2015 10: 53
                    Quote: Kassandra
                    they just needed to beat off the MiG-35, which in practice is superior to Raphael.
                    ancient MiG-29 and then it surpasses, but not so much

                    What exactly?
                    1. Kassandra
                      0
                      1 March 2015 11: 50
                      in the calculated kill ratio, primarily due to the aerobatic characteristics (climb rate, turnover and maximum speed). in the long-range modification of the MiG-29 with conformal tanks, it is "about the same level".
                      in order for the strobes to begin to crawl out onto it, the French took 20 years.

                      this aircraft does not even appear on the MiG counterparts; it is closer to the F-18.
                      1. 0
                        1 March 2015 12: 05
                        in the long-range modification of the MiG-29 with conformal tanks, it is "about the same level".
                        Where Mig-29 caught up with Rafal: Rafal had a radius of action with PTB of 1700 km, Mig-29M 1300 with PTB, the difference of 400 km was well compared, the load of Rafal 9500 kg, of Mig 4500 kg the difference is more than 2 times, The Frenchman has 14 suspension points for the Mig-29, not to mention radar and electronics, only the real Mig-35, which will be better in development.
                      2. Kassandra
                        +1
                        1 March 2015 12: 16
                        it was written in which Rafale did not catch up with MiG bully

                        MiG will hit the rafalka - this is a fighter in the first place, not a drummer! do not even write about avionics, because the light of the B-2 in even the East German avionics of the MiG was a big surprise for the British in 1994 laughing laughing laughing
                      3. +1
                        1 March 2015 23: 14
                        Quote: Kassandra
                        it was written in which Rafale did not catch up with MiG

                        MiG will hit the rafalka - this is a fighter in the first place, not a drummer! do not even write about avionics, because the light of the B-2 in even the East German avionics of the MiG was a big surprise for the British in 1994

                        That's just an interesting topic - AFAR has Rafal among them at the moment, as well as a much more interesting range of weapons
                      4. Kassandra
                        -1
                        2 March 2015 11: 18
                        more interesting is that:
                        1. for actions on inconspicuous goals, it is better suited for the PAR, and
                        2. you again somehow missed the moment with B-2

                        armament nomenclature - separately, aircraft - separately.
          2. +1
            28 February 2015 17: 36
            Quote: crazyrom
            live all the effort

            The lovers of chestnuts and frogs are ready to mark anyone who is willing to pay them money for a far from outstanding product, but the Indians apparently forgot how to consider if they were interested in the rafaelka
      2. 0
        28 February 2015 17: 38
        And they were friends, they were friends - all of Asia was jealous ...
    3. +1
      28 February 2015 09: 11
      Quote: silver169
      Every effort must be made for the Su-30MKI to win this battle. Firstly, 20 billion do not lie on the road, and secondly, the slaps will get a deafening slap on the face.

      Firstly, 20 billion is the price for Rafaley, and secondly, more importantly, the Indians need technology specifically Rafaley
      1. +2
        28 February 2015 10: 41
        Quote: Pimply
        Hindus need technology specifically Rafaley

        So the question was precisely with the transfer of technology, the French do not want to transfer the technology. But the French almost won the consent of the transfer of technology almost immediately. The Americans immediately refused to transfer the technology and dropped out of the tender.
        1. +1
          28 February 2015 11: 13
          Quote: APASUS
          So the question was precisely with the transfer of technology, the French do not want to transfer the technology. But the French almost won the consent of the transfer of technology almost immediately. The Americans immediately refused to transfer the technology and dropped out of the tender.

          The main problem was not even that, but the requirement of the Indians for guarantees for production which is not carried out by the French - and this could be a huge cost
          1. +3
            28 February 2015 15: 26
            Quote: Pimply
            The main problem was not even that, but the requirement of the Indians for guarantees for production which is not carried out by the French - and this could be a huge cost

            Hindus surrendered, Dasso specialists will exercise control.
            1. -1
              28 February 2015 21: 37
              Quote: Nayhas
              Hindus surrendered, Dasso specialists will exercise control.

              Yes, in the know.
          2. Kassandra
            0
            1 March 2015 00: 28
            this is tremendous nonsense, especially considering Indian quality wassat
            type guarantee, and we nakosyach.
      2. +4
        28 February 2015 10: 51
        Quote: Pimply
        Hindus need technology specifically Rafaley

        Yes shazzzz ... They just need technology. And the French, unlike the Yankees or Rus, can be forced into technology transfer.
        1. 0
          28 February 2015 11: 19
          Quote: Rakti-Kali
          Yes shazzzz ... They just need technology. And the French, unlike the Yankees or Rus, can be forced into technology transfer.

          They need specific technologies to raise their own level. What does the technology work with. Rafal answered more than
      3. Kassandra
        0
        1 March 2015 00: 26
        But what kind of technology do they have there, even if they have nearby engines, although there was an opportunity to spread them? as ancient as the layout of this pepelats ...
        The same according to the scheme, the eurofighter was late too.
        if tried on to SAGEM, then it will not give anything to these lovers of golden antelopes from the latest.
    4. Denis fj
      +3
      28 February 2015 09: 11
      1) Not the latest fighter sold.
      2) In India, they obviously paid for the paw that French planes would buy. For they are twice as expensive, exploitation is more expensive, they do not want to produce in India, and nevertheless the decision was initially made in their favor.
      1. 0
        28 February 2015 10: 10
        Quote: denis fj
        1) Not the latest fighter sold.
        2) In India, they obviously paid for the paw that French planes would buy. For they are twice as expensive, exploitation is more expensive, they do not want to produce in India, and nevertheless the decision was initially made in their favor.

        Rafale - 4 ++ generation with Afar. Sold in the latest configuration.
        More expensive than what? And I recommend that you read about the characteristics of Raphael
      2. VAF
        VAF
        +6
        28 February 2015 14: 34
        Quote: denis fj
        Not the latest fighter for sale.


        We would have such ... "not the latest" fighters recourse




        1. +1
          28 February 2015 23: 27
          Quote: vaf
          We would have such ... "not the latest" fighters

          According to the video.
          As I understand it, in the bushes a fighter highlights with a laser?
        2. Kassandra
          0
          2 March 2015 11: 12
          and whom did this "newest fighter" of 2001 exterminate in the bushes there? MiG-35go?
      3. 0
        28 February 2015 21: 52
        Quote: denis fj
        and nevertheless, the decision was initially made in their favor.

        It seems that the Indians have good kickbacks when concluding contracts ?!
    5. +4
      28 February 2015 10: 49
      Quote: silver169
      Every effort must be made for the Su-30MKI to win this battle. Firstly, 20 billion do not lie on the road, and secondly, the slaps will get a deafening slap on the face.

      People, relax! The Indians, on this wave, pushed the French in terms of price and terms, after which they confirmed their intentions to buy Rafali.
      1. 0
        28 February 2015 13: 48
        Dunce Indians. They do not understand that no one will share technology with them - no one needs a competitor, not even a Russian one.
      2. KAB
        KAB
        +2
        28 February 2015 18: 23
        As far as I understand, the first batch of Rafale is already in India. The Hindus have pushed their demands, they need technology, their own car has a Duck scheme for a reason, in the future, all these Rafal technologies will be transferred to their own fighter. "Rafal" is an excellent fighter, in which there is not a single gram of excess weight and only for the assigned tasks can take on board a target designation container for a specific mission. Unfortunately, "Rafik" is too nimble in the air, in combat turns, cross-sections and considering that our MiGs are rotten, and if they are taken, then in trimmed, not full-fledged configurations, this does not add confidence. They will surely conduct many air battles (training) with both Sushki and MiGs. Interestingly, I watched the performance characteristics of the MiG-29 ship, why is the plane limited in overloads to 8G? I know that it is lightened, and the thrust has increased, or because of the folding wing, but the Su-33 seems to have no restrictions.
        1. VAF
          VAF
          +2
          28 February 2015 19: 56
          Quote: KAB
          but the Su-33 seems to have no limits.


          There are also su-27, SM, SM3, etc. soldier By CDS soldier
          1. KAB
            KAB
            +1
            28 February 2015 20: 46
            Got it, thank you vaf.
          2. 0
            28 February 2015 21: 57
            Quote: vaf
            but the Su-33 seems to have no limits.

            There is only one limitation - in Pilot physics!
            1. VAF
              VAF
              +2
              28 February 2015 22: 13
              Quote: Tol100v
              There is only one limitation - in Pilot physics!


              The maximum eksplutatsionny 8 units. According to the CDS in certain ranges is limited to 7,5 soldier
    6. +1
      28 February 2015 14: 11
      you RF need to answer (punish) the French for the Mistral. And the question of prestige is also important ...
    7. 0
      28 February 2015 23: 27
      The victory of the tender by Russia will be very beautiful, for we will receive enormous money for R&D expenses, only the cost of the maintenance, the strengthening of military-technical and economic-political relations between our parties, and we can direct all our capabilities to satisfy our own air forces during the rearmament.
    8. timer
      0
      3 March 2015 20: 28
      I agree with komentom.NADO TO WIN A TENDER AND A POINT!
  2. +12
    28 February 2015 07: 31
    What a belated article ... There’s nothing to even discuss ... The question has already been decided ...

    25.02.2015/24/XNUMX According to sources from the Indian Ministry of Defense, a contract was signed for the supply of XNUMX Rafale fighters to the French company Dassault Aviation, the influential newspaper The Times of India reports today.

    25.02.2015/126/15 French Defense Minister Jean-Yves Le Drian and his Indian counterpart Manohar Parrikar dealt with one of the key issues in concluding a contract for the acquisition of XNUMX Rafale fighters of the French company Dassault Aviation in the amount of XNUMX billion US dollars, defencenews.in reports today.
    1. +3
      28 February 2015 11: 01
      Quote: Nayhas
      What a belated article ... There’s nothing to even discuss ... The question has already been decided ...

      The French in the person of Dassault Aviation, this contract is very important and they will not miss it.
  3. +12
    28 February 2015 07: 58
    Here, Russia simply cannot win the competition, simply the Indians play the Russian card, for the greater accommodability of the West, but for a long time everyone has known the key position of the Indians - not to put all their eggs in one basket.
    Well, about the contract, my personal opinion is that it is lagging ever stronger. Rafal is a good fighter, but of the 4th generation, while Dassault (which produces 10-12 aircraft per year) will release the necessary quantity, while it will deploy capacities and transfer technologies to the Indians, etc. then only armed with Rafals, they will have to be replaced with something new, the contract is painfully slowly being implemented (and it’s still not at all clear whether the contract will be fulfilled, it's already the 15th year in the yard, and they are discussing something)
    1. Kassandra
      0
      2 March 2015 11: 23
      just the Cote d'Azur with its warm climate and villas built on the kickbacks is located in France and not in Russia. this is the highlight.
  4. +1
    28 February 2015 09: 06
    Chew snot, Rafal won, the French provided on a silver platter and production technology, moreover, Rafal is an excellent machine ... cheers patriots where are you ...
    1. +14
      28 February 2015 09: 29
      Rafal great car, but where does the patriots cheers? according to your logic, that if you shouted a laudation about Rafal, then you hate Russia. Do you hate Russia? Then I'm a patriot cheer.)
      Russia already won its contract when, in the hardest years, it was able to conclude a contract for the Su 30, which did not allow Irkut to die and gave bread to the designers.
      In this tender, Russia simply could not win, which does not detract from the merits of Rafal, of course, but if you look objectively, Russia simply attended this tender, without a chance, as it is now.
      Well, the Indians will not rely on the development of only one country, they have repeatedly stated this both verbally and in print)
      1. -10
        28 February 2015 09: 52
        Russia is like a horror story for the entire "enlightened" world ... the Indians made conclusions and became one step more high-tech in terms of aviation, at least ...
        1. +2
          28 February 2015 11: 10
          Quote: Lone gunman
          Russia is like a horror story for the entire "enlightened" world ... the Indians made conclusions and became one step more high-tech in terms of aviation, at least ...

          Rafal's plane is good, but the Yankees squeezed the entire traditional market for the West under themselves, which squeezed the independent French.
          On December 7, 2011, French Minister of Defense Gerard Longuet announced that the Rafale production would be curtailed (after the company completed a paid order for the French Air Force for 180 aircraft) if foreign orders for the fighter did not appear
          However, the victory in January 2012 in the Indian tender MRCA (English) Russian. for the supply of 126 multi-role fighters for the Indian Air Force, allowed a large export order and possibly saved the plane from discontinuation

          Perhaps there was some kind of secret agreement with the Russians.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. +1
        1 March 2015 10: 43
        For some reason no one writes that India has always pursued such a policy. Where did the Jaguars, Super Ethandars, Hawks and Harriers come from in India?
    2. +4
      28 February 2015 09: 31
      Quote: Lone gunman
      cheers patriots where are you ...

      On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.
      1. +14
        28 February 2015 09: 33
        Quote: professor
        On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov

        Good morning, professor!
        Here. I switched on EuroNews, and every 15 minutes I listen to a "symphony". laughing
        1. +3
          28 February 2015 20: 45
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          I switched on EuroNews, and every 15 minutes I listen to a "symphony".

          And every 15 minutes you tear an accordion? wink
          Greetings to the archangel from the Urals from the Saratov-Kazakhstan steppes! hi
          1. +2
            28 February 2015 21: 05
            Quote: stalkerwalker
            and every 15 minutes I listen to a "symphony". laughing

            belay Tie it up. Kudrin said that the tragedy is supposedly, but it’s not a problem what There are dozens of electricians in Russia, sometimes flying, sometimes disability, and not a fig, not any "symphonies", it's a disaster, however request И healthywhine Yes
            Quote: retired
            Greetings to the archangel from the Urals from the Saratov-Kazakhstan steppes! hi
            Zdorovichka, however belay This is your seven hundred UAZ what ?
            And I'm just out of the garage, it’s warm here, +0, Celsius feel
            1. +1
              28 February 2015 22: 06
              Quote: perepilka
              This is your seven hundred UAZ

              It has already turned out to be 1600 around UAZ: back and forth for 600+, there and there ... Here's something for me: I fell asleep and go ... I worked 3-4 hours yesterday, but today it's an hour and that's it. And drove 2 days from the steering wheel did not come off. ..
              Hi Vova! drinks
              1. +1
                28 February 2015 22: 24
                Quote: retired
                And drove 2 days from the steering wheel did not come off. ..

                Passed what , it’s not at all possible, on the side of the car, about 20-30 minutes you can drive right behind the wheel, you’ll rinse your face, or you will wipe it with snow in the future, most importantly, so that the machine doesn’t break down on the track, but you don’t think about yourself, your beloved, well , yes ZIL 157 ditch, it is necessary to manage. drinks
            2. +4
              28 February 2015 23: 08
              Quote: retired
              And every 15 minutes you tear an accordion?

              Quote: perepilka
              Kudrin said that the tragedy is supposedly, but it’s not a problem

              Hello gentlemen!
              "Their regiment has gone ..."
              And Chiava is not sorry ... not a bit ... fellow
              1. +1
                28 February 2015 23: 18
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                And Chiava-that is not a pity ... not a bit ... fellow

                Cho pity them then, the king, ugh, syshypy has a lot (almost tse), so "trifles, it's a matter of everyday life" (that's for sure, tse) smile
      2. +5
        28 February 2015 09: 56
        Quote: professor
        On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.


        ... it’s not a pity, the main thing is that without a tambourine, otherwise they will call the wrong spirit ...
      3. +3
        28 February 2015 11: 23
        Quote: professor
        On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.

        Today, in Russian politics, he did not play a serious role, his last statements are not in favor of the current Ukrainian government. Just leaked.
        1. +1
          28 February 2015 22: 19
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Quote: professor On a nearby branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.

          Well, it’s okay, they’ll catch up in Israel, so what? There are enough of these! A Kanachikova Dacha - no!
      4. +5
        28 February 2015 11: 56
        Quote: professor
        Quote: Lone gunman
        cheers patriots where are you ...

        On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.

        And who is dancing, I don’t think that his colleagues. Probably real patriots can only express sympathy for the relatives and friends of the deceased, and spit silently in the soul. Provocateurs dance. I answered you as a patriot and an old soldier of the 60s.
      5. +13
        28 February 2015 13: 37
        Quote: professor
        On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.


        It is the "free people" who are dancing right away in hot pursuit ... even the flowers were organized at 2 am supposedly by Muscovites. Even if we assume that these people learned about the murder at the moment of the shots, then after that you still need to put on, put on shoes, buy flowers, get to the scene and place them at least until 2-47 at night ... Just amazing efficiency ... At night, such bouquets can be bought promptly in the center near the Tverskaya, Arbatskaya and Taganskaya metro stations and that's all ... even in GUM you can't buy
        we observe a resonance. Per Minute:



        The State Department knows about everything even earlier than the head of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is at the scene.


        And these generally insomnia torment ..



        how touching ... So who actually organized the cynical bone dance?
        1. +6
          28 February 2015 13: 55
          How can it be? The Obama post dates back to four in the morning. Given the time difference, a sensational conclusion comes: Obama knew in advance that Nemtsov would be killed. How is this possible?
          1. +5
            28 February 2015 14: 00
            Quote: Basarev
            How can it be? The Obama post dates back to four in the morning. Given the time difference, a sensational conclusion comes: Obama knew in advance that Nemtsov would be killed. How is this possible?


            Moscow time in the United States at this time of day ...
            Here are the words of the famous military expert, aviation colonel Alexander Zhilin.
            “Pay attention to how coordinated and instantly barked at Russia in connection with the murder of Nemtsov Obama, Kerry, McCain and other evil spirits. As if they were ready for this event and were just waiting for messages from Moscow. And the time is chosen correctly. We have a night, information activity is zero. In the USA, it’s the other way around. And the whole disinformation wave went from the USA ...
            Nemtsov is a sacred sacrifice. The purpose of the murder is to destabilize the situation inside our country and provide an informational pretext for attacking the "bloody regime" again.

            And here are some more interesting things bloggers dug up



            link
        2. 0
          28 February 2015 22: 27
          Quote: Ascetic
          .. So who actually organized the cynical bone dance?

          There is such a thing as timing, which no one has ever been able to refute! And ALL is further only on the conscience of the State Department and its performers!
      6. +5
        28 February 2015 14: 45
        Hello, pfofessog. We are already here.
        And if without jokes, I’m a patriot (do not confuse with URA-patriots) I never regret Nemtsov, Berezovsky, Novodvorskaya and others. There are some rich guys who robbed the whole country and even spent a little time there. I do not mind them either. There were still many like him to regret only about him.
        1. 0
          28 February 2015 16: 27
          Quote: Maksud
          Hello, pfofessog. We are already here.

          Typo?
      7. 0
        28 February 2015 22: 12
        Quote: professor
        On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.

        Mocking is bad! About a person or so, or no matter how. Thank God this helped explain the Great and Mighty Russian language! Ah, steam or something, let Themselves out in another place. Recommend!
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  5. +1
    28 February 2015 09: 54
    France is an unreliable partner. Collaboration with the West does not bode well
    1. +2
      28 February 2015 10: 04
      Quote: kursk87
      France is an unreliable partner. Collaboration with the West does not bode well

      Who said that? France is the most reliable partner, she has a current after the times of De Gaulle with the sovereignty of the problem ...
      1. +4
        28 February 2015 11: 21
        Quote: Lone gunman
        Who said that? France is the most reliable partner, she has a current after the times of De Gaulle with the sovereignty of the problem ...


        Your response in the style of "spit in my eyes - white dew" laughing

        France reliable partner laughing laughing laughing

        Who said that? belay One only needs to remember how they kissed with Gaddafi, and then they bombed so that horns and legs remained from Libya !!! laughing
        1. 0
          28 February 2015 21: 41
          Quote: Dali
          One only needs to remember how they kissed with Gaddafi, and then they bombed so that horns and legs remained from Libya !!!

          Gaddafi thought that kicking Europeans and wiping their feet on them can be done calmly and with impunity. The fact that guys should not perceive polite smiles as a weakness - he is not the first to make a mistake in this way
          1. 0
            28 February 2015 23: 21
            But more specifically, when kicked and whom?
      2. picca2
        +2
        28 February 2015 20: 32
        Well ridiculed .... laughing laughing laughing
        So what is the RELIABILITY, if the sovereignty of the problem?
  6. +8
    28 February 2015 10: 01
    For starters, it's not about 20 billions at all. 20 billion Indians are ready to pay for Rafali and their technology.
    The second - the Indians agreed with the French. The defense ministers of France and India, Jean-Yves Le Drian and Manohar Parricard, agreed on the issue of controlling the quality of production and the complexity of the technological process of assembling Rafale aircraft in India, defencenews.in reports.

    The French company will receive expanded rights to control the quality of production. The parties also agreed on the amount of labor involved in assembling machines in India.

    The reason for the disagreement was the refusal of the developer and manufacturer of the aircraft, Dassault, to provide a guarantee on the quality of Indian assembly machines due to insufficient process control capabilities. In addition, the French manufacturer insisted on a smaller amount of standard hours spent on assembly aircraft.

    Reportedly, the parties reached a compromise on the terms of expanding Dassault's rights to control and manage the production process, on the one hand, and increasing labor costs, on the other. This decision is explained by lower labor productivity in Indian industry compared to French.
    1. +1
      28 February 2015 10: 08
      I didn’t want to, but + ... Yes
    2. +1
      28 February 2015 12: 00
      Quote: Pimply
      For starters, it's not about 20 billions at all. 20 billion Indians are ready to pay for Rafali and their technology.

      This is true, I would say that the bargaining oriental soul of Indian officials is bribed by the opportunity to buy a modern aircraft at the price of simplified versions of the F-18 or the usual F-16, especially since the AFAR production technologies have much in common with Rafal.
      BUT! On the side of the Euro contract, decent kickbacks and connections, and it is not easy to refuse it.

      Everything is simple with the Jews, she herself witnessed the start of negotiations with the Jewish delegation: Where to find a person with you who would decide everything for a certain bonus in favor of us.
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  7. 0
    28 February 2015 10: 14
    Well, and more news from the Indian defense industry:
    The Defense News portal reports citing sources in the Indian Ministry of Defense that the Indian and Israeli authorities have agreed to jointly develop a new generation of medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems.

    The agreement was signed during a visit to India by Israeli Defense Minister Moshe Ya'alon. The new systems should replace the Russian systems "Kvadrat" and "Osa-AKM", developed back in the 70-80s of the XX century.


    The Indian state defense research and development organization, as well as the Israeli state-owned aviation industry (TAA) and Rafael concerns will take part in the development. The systems will be manufactured by the state-owned Bharat Dynamics, Tata Power SED and Larsen & Toubro.

    At the first stage, the Indian army plans to purchase 18 systems for a total of 1,5 billion dollars, and a total of 6 billion dollars will be spent on the purchase of new systems.
    1. +3
      28 February 2015 11: 14
      Quote: Pimply
      Israel agreed to jointly develop a new generation of medium-range anti-aircraft missile systems.

      Quote: Pimply
      New systems should replace the Russian systems "Kvadrat" and "Osa-AKM"

      And when was the Wasp mid-range?
      1. -3
        28 February 2015 11: 54
        Quote: saturn.mmm
        And when was the Wasp mid-range?

        "Osa-AKM" - small and medium
        1. +3
          28 February 2015 14: 00
          Quote: Pimply
          "Osa-AKM" - small and medium

          He has a maximum of 10000 meters, you do not confuse with "Buks" by chance?
  8. +9
    28 February 2015 10: 36
    The Hindus played the Russian card beautifully. Drying was not originally tendered for a LIGHT fighter, and we (praise Poghosyan) have practically no alternative to Drying. If it were not for export deliveries, Migi would be completely "pounded". And Russia also needs a light fighter.
  9. -8
    28 February 2015 10: 54
    There is not much point in a manned fighter, especially when the pilot is careful! A full-sized drone will not leave a chance to any ace in a duel !!!
    1. +2
      28 February 2015 11: 27
      Quote: fktrcfylhn61
      A full-sized drone will not leave a chance to any ace in a duel !!!


      Very controversial statement. This is not chess for you, where they can already calculate everything ...

      "Women's Intuition" - Isaac Asimov. Have you read it? Do you think that there is already an artificial intelligence of this level?
  10. 0
    28 February 2015 11: 24
    And again, Pogostyan and Sukhoi put sticks in the wheels of Mikoyan-35, obviously his shirt is closer to the pope, but in its class (and Hindi know about it), the Mig-35 is better than a dry 30mka.
    1. +2
      28 February 2015 12: 03
      Quote: valokordin
      And again, Pogostyan and Sukhoi put sticks in the wheels of Mikoyan-35, obviously his shirt is closer to the pope, but in its class (and Hindi know about it), the Mig-35 is better than a dry 30mka.

      It seems to me that the Indians just need to maintain the size of the fleet, in this regard, planes with one engine are more optimal. Aka MiG-21. So far there is no such offer for us from them, and this is not good.
  11. +1
    28 February 2015 11: 29
    Quote: Lone gunman
    Chew snot, Rafal won, the French provided on a silver platter and production technology, moreover, Rafal is an excellent machine ... cheers patriots where are you ...

    Fine!!! So Russia will get access to French technology. :)
    1. -1
      28 February 2015 11: 55
      Why would, dear?
      1. +1
        28 February 2015 12: 07
        Do you consider the option of bash on bash?
        Or do you think we do not have technologies that we can change from Hindus to French .... without advertising the fact itself.
    2. +1
      28 February 2015 12: 04
      Quote: aleks26
      Fine!!! So Russia will get access to French technology. :)


      by the way, there is something in this) although if you look objectively, we don’t have much to learn from the French, but still
      1. VAF
        VAF
        +4
        28 February 2015 13: 57
        Quote: barbiturate
        although if you look objectively, we don’t have much to learn from the French, but still


        Yeah ... if you look objectively, how much French avionics and avionics cost on the Su-30SM and on the export options of the Su-30MK (I, A, M), as well as on the Mig-29 / M2 (Mig-35S and Mig -29K / CUBE), then naturally .. what can we learn from them? wassat
        Look, some have already tried to "start", with the "Sapsan" .. money "mastered" .... another barge can be bought ... in the end, no money, no "Sapsan" wassat

        By the way, the French even have Etandara's grandfather, and then on ... full of minced meat wassat than you can "boast of" urya-patriotic "-" there is nothing special for not studying " wassat



        1. VAF
          VAF
          +4
          28 February 2015 14: 04
          Quote: vaf
          By the way, the French even have Etandara's grandfather, and then on ... full of minced meat


          With "Atlis-2" the photo was not "attached" recourse

        2. +5
          28 February 2015 15: 10
          I don’t understand why publish photos of ethandars and claim that they are in full mincemeat? A hanging container gives them great opportunities and here we are really lagging behind, but otherwise, what shocked you so much in equipping the French?) Avionics of the same MKI were international, but the French did not put any great know-how there (sold) and there are similar Russian developments and analogues besides, no one has yet proven or even claimed that the French avionics, installed on the MKI or standing on the Rafals, is the best in the world. It is enough to recall that the MKI flew in 1997 and a lot, in the conditions of then-Russia, it was simply impossible to produce mass-produced and efficiently, so we got a solyanochka, but 18 years passed ...

          "what you can" boast of "urya-patriotic" - "not a student of anything special" wassat

          and this is what the hater of Russia can boast of, that the pictures learned to spank in a chat?)))


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                1. picca2
                  +2
                  28 February 2015 21: 31
                  Dear - look at your problems, maybe at least in the "year of the ram" will help.
                  He is more YOUR than ours. It is better for you to unload "wagons with trifles" than to pretend to be "advanced" here.
                  And we can read and write. So what about the great avionics? The reference is mainly there on the Su-30SM for India, obviously, in the form of connectors for the French equipment used. So what?
                  1. +2
                    28 February 2015 22: 13
                    Quote: picca2
                    the link is mainly there on the Su-30SM for India

                    SU-30SM for India ... at least stand still. This is since when SU-India has been delivered to India30CM??
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                      1. picca2
                        -5
                        28 February 2015 22: 26
                        So take it out of your mouth and spit it out ... or do circumcision do it, just go in cycles on rams. I can't help you here.
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                    2. picca2
                      +2
                      28 February 2015 22: 24
                      Yes, I paid, MKI naturally.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
                  3. -4
                    1 March 2015 06: 51
                    For a long time, REAL experts (and not this clown with an airplane on the avatar)) explained that Russia now acts like all other countries - manufacturers of aviation, namely, if various components like various microcircuits, cables and connectors (clown hello)) cost 10 or there are 100 basses for a handful, then no one will produce them himself, it’s easier to buy and this is no addiction, everyone does it and there are many manufacturers.
                    A real addiction is when the part that you put on your planes (for example) is produced by 1-2 suppliers all over the world, and then, in order to get rid of addiction, you need to develop and produce your own.

                    The list that brought the "hater of Russia" and the clown concurrently calling everyone rams in a row has nothing to do with dependence, because either Russian analogs of this not the greatest value of technological equipment are produced, or they can be bought from many companies and do not burn huge grandmothers ourselves to factories and production of this at home.
                    1. +2
                      1 March 2015 12: 09
                      The little list that the "hater of Russia" and the clown brought up, calling everyone rams in a row
                      You follow the bazaar, this is a "hater of Russia and a clown" as you put it for about 40 years, served in the Air Force of the USSR and the Russian Federation, participated in several wars and conflicts, unlike you.
                      1. Kassandra
                        0
                        1 March 2015 12: 20
                        was it about whom? and participated by whom?
                      2. +1
                        1 March 2015 21: 14
                        Quote: Kassandra
                        was it about whom? and participated by whom?

                        This is about VAF, he talked about himself on the site.
                        I did not go into details.
                      3. -1
                        1 March 2015 15: 40
                        Something very playfully he calls out all the rams for a 60+ year old veteran, here he just deleted his posts, so if you know him so well that you harness yourself here, teach him to follow the market and not write any nonsense
                2. +2
                  28 February 2015 23: 45
                  It’s not even interesting, everyone knows about the French avionics on the Su-30SM, and there are their own manufactures to replace all this wealth, KRET knowingly slurp their cabbage soup. I’m more interested in how it is with the Su-35S in the French part and who supplies the LCD displays to our sides, starting with the MiG-29SMT and ending with the T-50-5?
                  1. Kassandra
                    0
                    1 March 2015 12: 30
                    Well, in SSJ 3/4 of the imported one in general, and the engines were placed in an interesting way so that you can’t change them for Russian ...
                    and entirely new relatives, Il and Tu, were not launched into the series.
                3. +1
                  1 March 2015 06: 27
                  Well, first of all, "hater of Russia", "ram year" is the same mine as yours, this is especially evident in your numerous emoticons, you directly revel in your supposedly intelligence and literacy)) I already said, you are a balabol and a clown.

                  Quote: vaf
                  BTSVM RC-1 and on-board computer RC-2 from HAL
                  SAGEM SAFRAN navigation system SYGMA95NAA
                  black box THALES
                  ACER personal computer for test work)))
                  GPS / GLONASS antenna from SAGEM SAFRAN
                  MFD SMD55S THALES
                  MFD SMD66S THALES
                  On the MKI is the Israeli Elbit Systems SU967, but on our SM-HUD 3022 THALES
                  radio altimeter RAM-1701
                  friend or foe identification system IFF-1410A
                  INCOM-1012A communications system and Tarang HADF Mk.II radar warning system. "


                  And what does this prove? What Russia now can not and could not have done before a radio altimeter? or communication system? maybe our aircraft never had domestic warning systems for radar exposure?
                  or the technological greatness of france lies in "SYGMA95NAA navigation system by SAGEM SAFRAN, THALES black box"
                  Of all the equipment listed, I agree only on the MFD SMD55S THALES, MFD SMD66S THALES, ours did not make such indicators in 1997, when the Su 30 flew for India, but the Indians themselves simply assumed these indicators for upgrading the Migs and decided to stick on Su30.
                  If the Indians (and the client is always right, and especially in the 1997 collapse situation) wanted to supply some Western analogues of what was on purely Russian planes, then please, Sukhoi specialists were able to complete all the docking and debugging of equipment from different manufacturers, which is already worthy of respect.
                  It was originally spelled out in the contract that the Indians also wanted to supply their equipment, our digital computer was built on 486 percent, first we went, in the later batches they began to put the Indian one, does this mean that our own can’t do anything? Or the desire of the Indians to put something of their own?
                  Have you read the Rafale contract? Do you think that everything will be French?))
                  And what is your link to? Parts in the form of cables to the French equipment also supplies a company from France ?? oh my god, I'm shocked))) And what do you think, where are those components from which Rafal is made? like our Su30) Here, even the Americans conduct whole investigations, wherefrom their F-35 components from Asia))

                  Before you google pictures "hater of Russia" you just need not to revel in your "supposedly" mind, but try to critically comprehend what you read and compare, everything is learned in comparison, as I said, you are a clown and if pictures with French displays (and dozens of countries make them) symbolizes the backwardness of Russia for you, then I have bad news for you, you are just a "hater of Russia" and you)))



                  Quote: vaf
                  a .. I missed a problem with what would "think", but here I can not help anything, especially in your .. "ram year"
                  1. -1
                    1 March 2015 06: 49
                    PS I posted this post as a response under the message of a "hater of Russia" but for some reason it slipped here, but oh well, he still doesn't have enough brains to comprehend what I wrote
                  2. +1
                    1 March 2015 10: 50
                    Quote: barbiturate
                    on the Su30.
                    If the Indians (and the client is always right, and especially in the situation of the collapse of 1997) wanted to put some Western counterparts

                    I can’t understand one thing about the cy 30mki of 1997. What about the Su-30cm, the first flight of 2012?
                    The question is different why in one of the best aircraft for the Air Force, there are so many foreign components, if they are so easy to replace. After all, if tomorrow France stops supplying components, how long will it take to rework under analogs and why in 2012 did they build an airplane with foreign components?
                    1. +1
                      1 March 2015 12: 14
                      After all, if tomorrow France stops supplying components, how long will it take to rework under analogs and why in 2012 did they build an airplane with foreign components?
                      This has already happened in connection with the sanctions, the French hindered supplies for the Mig-29K which are for the Navy of the Russian Federation, so far 14 of the Mig-29k made so far have not been transferred to the Navy and for some reason our analogues have not been replaced.
                      1. Kassandra
                        +1
                        1 March 2015 12: 26
                        But is it known that they are precisely because of this not transferred?

                        if so, then they will be answered ... there will be analogues, the MiG-29K before that somehow flew without them at all.
                      2. +1
                        1 March 2015 12: 44
                        if so, then they will be answered ... there will be analogues, the MiG-29K before that somehow flew without them at all.
                        If you are hinting at the MIG-29K of the first 9-31 series, then they have the same name as the similarities between the Su-29 and Su-9 with the new MIG-41K of the 47-27 / 35 series. Series 9-41:
                        an improved airframe with a share of composite materials of about 15%; a digital integrated remote control aircraft control system with fourfold redundancy; On-board electronic equipment MiG-29K / KUB is built on the principle of open architecture based on the MIL-STD-1553B standard. It is possible to install infrared containers on the plane and laser sighting equipment for illuminating ground targets.
                        Do not tell me the analogues of containers with infrared and laser sighting equipment for illuminating ground targets, but why then if we have all the best, we ordered 29 French helmets for the Mig-24K.
                      3. Kassandra
                        0
                        1 March 2015 12: 56
                        I can’t tell you, but all this was still on the MiG-23/27 and is on the Su-24

                        then something is either cheaper (which is navryatli) or take the money out of the country, and at the same time take it for "soft".
                      4. +1
                        1 March 2015 13: 08
                        I can’t tell you, but all this was still on the MiG-23/27 and is on the Su-24
                        It stood and stands and put on the Su-34 and put it not bad, but for some reason it’s not modern, normal in containers for the Su-30/35, MiG-29/35 so far, although there have been a bunch of grandmas in it.
                        then something is either cheaper (which is navryatli) or take the money out of the country, and at the same time take it for "soft".
                        “This system was selected for installation on MiG-29K / KUB carrier-based fighters intended for the Russian Navy, since it successfully passed the run on this type of aircraft delivered to India, as well as MiG-29UPG fighters,” said the representative of the Russian delegation. By the way, for some reason, India during modernization, the Mig-29 also chooses the French and Israeli
                        MiG-29UPG (9-20) - modernization of the MiG-29B for the Indian Air Force. It includes the installation of an additional conformal dorsal fuel tank and equipment for refueling in the air, the installation of RD-33M-3 engines, the Thales inertial navigation system, the Zhuk-M2E weapon control radar, the OLS-UEM optical system, the helmet-mounted target designation system of the Israeli company Elbit , updating radio navigation systems, as well as a new “glass cockpit” with multi-function LCD displays. The range of weapons will be expanded with the Kh-29T / L, Kh-31A / P and Kh-35 missiles.
                      5. Kassandra
                        0
                        1 March 2015 13: 19
                        there is everything ... especially in a container it is as easy to put as a cannon. and why in the container when and so is in the case?

                        it means to spend money ... before this pribluda, it somehow stood its own, and the Indians choose French or Israeli, because "or" no one will sell Russian non-export to them - even that was their belenko ... bully and there were also plenty of Arab and even North Korean ones. they can simply admit "foreign specialists" to the technique, as even the Yugoslavs did in their time under Tito.
                        Indians until deneh are even more greedy than Arabs. both on average and individual representatives (especially among the lower castes). laughing
                      6. +1
                        1 March 2015 12: 49
                        The most interesting is the photograph taken in Lukhovitsy of a MiG-29KUB two-seat fighter (tail number “52 blue”) - the French helmet-mounted target designation system Thales TopSight is clearly visible in the pilot’s photo in the front cockpit. This is the first known image of the Russian MiG-29K / KUB with the TopSight system. The contract of MSC RSC OJSC with the Thales group for the supply of 24 units of the Thales TopSight helmet-mounted target designation and indication system for the assembly of the MiG-29K and MiG-29KUB ship fighters planned for the delivery of the Russian Navy was concluded on July 11, 2012. According to known information, Russia became the third customer of the Thales TopSight system after the French Air Force (where these systems are used on Dassault Mirage 2000-5F fighters) and India (where it is used on MiG-29K / KUB fighters and should be used on upgraded MiG-29UPG fighters) .
                      7. Kassandra
                        0
                        1 March 2015 13: 01
                        a film about the history of the creation of the Su-27 in 4 parts or about the MiG-29 in two, look at YouTube, there are such systems there (for the MiG-23 it was still a secret, although it was taken from the shot down in the Israeli museum). The USSR generally created such systems first, and led them (guidance over the pupil).
                      8. +1
                        1 March 2015 13: 17
                        a film about the history of the creation of the Su-27 in 4 parts or about the MiG-29 in two, look at YouTube, there are such systems there (for the MiG-23 it was still a secret, although it was taken from the shot down in the Israeli museum). The USSR generally created such systems first, and led them (guidance over the pupil).
                        Now where these systems are, the answer is no. And now, unfortunately, the leaders in this are the USA, France and Israel.
                      9. Kassandra
                        +1
                        1 March 2015 13: 22
                        Are you sure about this? Well, part of the technology went to them, but not all ...

                        maybe Lockheed has become a leader in vertical lines? bully
                    2. +1
                      1 March 2015 16: 07
                      I didn’t say anything about the Su30 SM, because the article is about the Su30x for India, there are a lot of Su 30CM in specialized forums and this is probably a separate topic).

                      Quote: iwind
                      The question is different why in one of the best aircraft for the Air Force, there are so many foreign components, if they are so easy to replace. After all, if tomorrow France stops supplying components, how long will it take to rework under analogs and why in 2012 did they build an airplane with foreign components?


                      If you want to know my opinion, then I brought it here, but you can again)
                      There are some systems that have already been mentioned, which are already being exported, there are no good systems and the main desire to produce everything at home leads to an economic collapse, why? For 18 years, we’ve got used to working with certain French avionics systems, there’s even a local manufacturing enterprise, so we decided why we need to pump huge grandmothers into our plants, because they will never pay off, because there are a number of large companies from which all manufacturers buy .
                      The solution may be ambiguous, but in my opinion, the right one, although of course, if everyone stops selling components to Russia, it will be a serious problem.) It will take years to organize production in Russia, but it will come to that)

                      And now the most interesting thing, because everything is known in comparison: who will give a 100% guarantee that everything is French on Rafale? They have good displays in the cabs, and who is the manufacturer of the matrices? Koreans, and plastic? China. And where do the French get the microcircuit and various mess of cables, connectors and other small things? China, Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and other and other. And it is right. In the era of globalization, so in any country where it is more profitable to produce there, which is more profitable, they will buy a separate system from a separate manufacturer. Even Americans are suffering, investigations are being carried out, why are there so many picking from Asia on the F-35?) And this is just capitalism and globalization
                      There is relatively little information on military aircraft, take the new Boeing 787 for example and see how many countries are involved in its development, but is it American? It is important who makes the whole product, who produces its most important components and assemblies, and small things can be bought this or that.

                      Well, the French will stop selling us something, which I doubt very much, they’re still in shoals, we will agree with Israel, for example, it’s doing no worse and it’s very simple to join the same MPI MIL-STD-1553)

                      You can still write a lot of things, but you yourself can read everything on the net, and the beetles are tired of typing))
                    3. +1
                      1 March 2015 21: 45
                      Quote: iwind
                      .Are we talking about it, it’s about the Su-30cm the first flight of 2012?

                      The fact of the matter is that 2012, the contract with the French was concluded even earlier, when Irkut concluded with the Indians, besides, Irkut should in India about 70 su-30MKI sets, the French would not deliver to Irkut, then Irkut would not deliver to Airbus.
                      What's the problem?
                      1. +1
                        2 March 2015 19: 33
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Quote: iwind
                        .Are we talking about it, it’s about the Su-30cm the first flight of 2012?

                        The fact of the matter is that 2012, the contract with the French was concluded even earlier, when Irkut concluded with the Indians, besides, Irkut should in India about 70 su-30MKI sets, the French would not deliver to Irkut, then Irkut would not deliver to Airbus.
                        What's the problem?

                        What military supplies does Irkkut supply to France? She is a citizen separately, so that they would stop posting it for now. Well, mestrali do not supply, where is the termination of any supplies to France? This year the contract for su -30mki will be completed, and it is far from the fact that Talovskaya avionics is being installed in Russia. Since 2015, the license and the full production cycle have been transferred to India. "Complete transfer of technologies from Irkut"
                        http://defense-update.com/20150216_su30mki_update.html#.VPR-7ozHnMI
                        As I think this is one of the reasons why they will hardly choose Mki instead of Raphale, there is no point in this, they can already "buy" Mki at any time
        3. picca2
          -3
          28 February 2015 20: 53
          This is where such "knowledge" of "minced meat" comes from ... Are you by any chance from the meat industry?
    3. The comment was deleted.
  12. +1
    28 February 2015 12: 04
    Quote: Pimply
    Why would, dear?

    Is there any doubt? It’s clear that it’s not official.
  13. +5
    28 February 2015 12: 10
    Organize a training fight between a frog and a bear. What is the problem? And see who will be on top ...
  14. crane13833
    +1
    28 February 2015 12: 11
    I still can not understand why we are selling the latest weapons that the troops themselves do not have or units for what?
    1. +3
      28 February 2015 21: 46
      Quote: gru13833
      I still can not understand why we are selling the latest weapons that the troops themselves do not have or units for what?

      Because money for purchases for troops is not taken from the air
  15. +3
    28 February 2015 12: 19
    All that is not done is for the best. For both sides. We need more initiative and awareness of our mistakes, less Indians experiments: with Pakistan, they put Pakistan in its place and got a new state, Bangladesh. Simple, inexpensive, reliable, what else is needed to adequately meet the aggressor ...
  16. +3
    28 February 2015 12: 30
    Quote: sabakina
    Organize a training fight between a frog and a bear. What is the problem? And see who will be on top ...

    These are DIFFERENT airplanes, each has its own tasks, it is not correct to compare them. Training battle involves solving only the tasks of gaining dominance in the air, and only if there are no more missiles. A very special case. In a real battle, the winner is the one with the best radar, missiles, electronic warfare, and much more not related to the maneuverability of a fighter
    1. +1
      28 February 2015 12: 53
      "It's a shame" of course, but this is the market, and the current won who is "stronger" or the one who gave a "bigger" bribe smile
      But now I think India, friendly to us, will not refuse its strategic partner and colleague in the BRICS of Russia to get acquainted with the equipment and weapons of this type of aircraft.
    2. +2
      28 February 2015 13: 25
      "Real combat is an extensible concept. From a long-range missile, where" super-maneuverability "is not too necessary. To a close," dog dump "where our Sushki have no equal. ...

      Recently, the term "supremacy fighter" has become less and less common. On the contrary, more and more "multifunctional" and "strike" fighters are being built.
    3. +3
      28 February 2015 15: 01
      Quote: aleks26
      . In a real battle, the winner is the one with the best radar, missiles, electronic warfare, and much more not related to the maneuverability of a fighter

      For me, yes! Why wave sabers if you can fill up with a pistol?
      1. Kassandra
        -1
        4 March 2015 13: 43
        Then again, we urgently need to return the guns to phantoms? bully
        treacherous these Russians ...
  17. +3
    28 February 2015 14: 39
    Quote: Ascetic
    Quote: professor
    On the next branch they dance over the body of Nemtsov. Let off steam there and catch up here.


    It is the "free people" who are dancing right away in hot pursuit ... even the flowers were organized at 2 am supposedly by Muscovites. Even if we assume that these people learned about the murder at the moment of the shots, then after that you still need to put on, put on shoes, buy flowers, get to the scene and place them at least until 2-47 at night ... Just amazing efficiency ... At night, such bouquets can be bought promptly in the center near the Tverskaya, Arbatskaya and Taganskaya metro stations and that's all ... even in GUM you can't buy
    we observe a resonance. Per Minute:



    The State Department knows about everything even earlier than the head of the Main Directorate of the Ministry of Internal Affairs is at the scene.


    And these generally insomnia torment ..



    how touching ... So who actually organized the cynical bone dance?

    I don’t understand why there is so much attention to this murder. Gref set off altogether saying that it was a terrible tragedy for Russia; people were generally useless. Both were in prison for a long time. Gref for investing in the US economy Russian money. Not one hundred billion bucks.
  18. +1
    28 February 2015 14: 48
    the battle for rafali is not over, it is in full swing!
  19. +4
    28 February 2015 15: 51
    Quote: ROMANO
    Recently, the term "supremacy fighter" has become less and less common. On the contrary, more and more "multifunctional" and "strike" fighters are being built.

    Because a highly specialized aircraft is very expensive and only a few countries could afford it - the USA, England and the USSR. England fell off for a long time, Russia and SSHA remained, and both of them depart from this.
  20. +1
    1 March 2015 07: 08
    Yes, our shame-3 years have passed, and the Su-30mki and Mig-35 are still not in the series with an active phased array !!!
    1. Kassandra
      -1
      1 March 2015 11: 26
      can I tell you in more detail who the MKI is for, and is there a MiG-35 in general?
      Radar Zhuk-A as it is ...
      1. +1
        3 March 2015 15: 15
        I think if we were with AFARM, we would have won the Indian tender, this is on the topic of the article, and not in the series, of course, which is worse than the worst ....
        1. Kassandra
          -1
          3 March 2015 21: 48
          would have won without him, therefore, not in the tender ...
          1. +2
            4 March 2015 04: 23
            Let’s in fact: -the man says that they buy sighting systems for the modernization of the Mig-29, you say we have ours (???)
            - enemy planes that have an advantage in the range of detection and tracking of the target, according to the characteristics of the aiming complex — will not come close for close combat — you rejoice with the hopes of maneuverable combat
            - in the tender were presented in 2008 MiG-35, Su-30 and one did not pass (not in the series), the other lost - you say you won "WOULD" ...
            CONCLUSION: you deny the obvious!
            1. Kassandra
              -1
              4 March 2015 12: 13
              Serdyuk bought a lot of things, even armored cars ... bully

              the gunless phantoms in Vietnam were approaching, it’s good that the Vietnamese did not have a Su-9 at all in the air defense, but the MiG-21 was small.

              "seriality" - i.e. "not novelty" (like the T-50 which is not serial but nevertheless for some reason is interesting to India) was the condition of participation in the tender itself

              with the same success, it was possible to set the condition that the aircraft participating in the tender should be single-kilometer - the MiG-35 would not have passed into it either.

              if the Su-30 lost to someone there (and that he also participated in all, because the Su-30 already exists in India), then this is simply a political issue, because Only the Scraptor can compete with the Su-30, and then only after its last modification launched in 2007.

              conclusion - you are simply busy here that rosin public brain.
              1. +2
                4 March 2015 15: 04
                If we wait for the Su-35 with the "Zhuk", then it will compete with Raptors, Raptors and others, but for now, I think, only enthusiasm ... And my brains are "rosin", because I completely agree with "Waf" about modernization of existing aircraft, in particular: the key installation of the AFARM radar! Cassandra is literate, but in terms of practical application and tactics, mishandled ...
                1. Kassandra
                  -1
                  4 March 2015 15: 10
                  Su-35 or MiG-35? MiG-35 even without Zhuk-A are not yet serial ...
                  back against the Raptor better headlamp laughing

                  and you, like vaf home-grown chtoli?
                  1. +2
                    4 March 2015 15: 22
                    Yes, I would vote for both, but it does not depend on me: the Su-35 in production with the Beetle-A - AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN THE SERIES, as far as I know! A MiG-35 plans only an order is not considered ...
                    Ahaha, where have you been raised? me in a flight school + as far as mastered types, so I have the right to an opinion))
                    1. Kassandra
                      -1
                      4 March 2015 16: 00
                      and the T-50 plans only to order - is it considered?

                      and who raised? at least fought? I was already on YouTube, one "sitting a cup" in something big, maneuverable BVB with a harrier "taught" ...
                    2. +2
                      4 March 2015 16: 03
                      Su-35 in production with the Beetle-A - AND THIS IS THE FIRST TIME IN THE SERIES, as far as I know!
                      On the su-35 is Irbis, not the Beetle.
                      1. +1
                        4 March 2015 16: 28
                        Well, passive, thanks for the amendment (!), Which is not encouraging, just with this lag we are "on fire" !!!
                      2. Kassandra
                        -1
                        4 March 2015 17: 03
                        what is wrong with the snow leopard? Why put in Su what gets into the MiG?
                      3. +2
                        4 March 2015 17: 17
                        what is wrong with the snow leopard?
                        It’s more correct to ask what is wrong with the Su-35, why the GI still hasn’t passed, although they promised to go to the GI in 2010 but entered in 2013 and so far only Shoigu has said that they hope that in 2015 the GI will finally pass through.
                        Why put in Su what gets into the MiG?
                        Speech about another USA put AFAR already on f-16,15,18, China, France, Japan, Izrail also begin to put pressure on all AFAR planes, and we are behind, and the fact that PFAR is better on stealth is nonsense, it’s a big plus that it cheaper.
                      4. Kassandra
                        -1
                        4 March 2015 19: 09
                        ask the GI commission ... maybe they want money for a signature. forward bully

                        The USA began to install the FAR after they bought in 2006 what Adolf Tolkachev did not steal.

                        nonsense at you - read why on stealth FAR better than AFAR. or just about the fact that she is better for this purpose.
                        but about the touching story, how the British in the GDR MiG-29 saw the B-2 before it was spotted by their large ground radars, what is it known?
                2. Kassandra
                  -1
                  4 March 2015 15: 46
                  1. Raptors are not first-wave strike aircraft, but aircraft that were made to penetrate the gaps of border air defense pierced by other aircraft (usually F-16) and then carry out strike missions in the rear of China and over Siberia, where the air defense radar is rare which, due to their smaller detection radius, could be relatively safe to fly around.

                  2. Otherwise, this F-16 except SEAD is just bullshit, and as an F35 fighter it will be even worse.

                  3. In the X-37 there is a system of automatic landing and maneuvering from Buran. the shuttle needed a pilot. Americans did not even master the approach system to the ISS - they docked all the time manually, then bought it in the Russian Federation. and here is the approach and landing on the strip from one run.

                  PS. Something like that I do not like that the DPR / LPR in the Russian zomboyaschik began to be called "self-proclaimed" - Perestroika is back?
                  and the same US who proclaimed? adm. Her Majesty, Lord Nelson?
                  or Ivan Fedorovich Kruzenshtern? bully
                  1. +2
                    4 March 2015 16: 44
                    I reveal the secrets of American non-nuclear deterrence: 7 thousand cruise missiles destroys previously explored targets, including Radar, air defense, manual.
                    But then we will find out why F-22,35 are multi-purpose --- they are just the first wave aircraft, which, using stealth (especially the front sphere), strike at operating stations that have survived s-300,400 at maximum distances, including on the oncoming fighters at the maximum launch distance without entering into a maneuvering battle!
                    Where from? -Tuples in Japan with the participation of f-22 ... They are just the first wave drums to knock out our active means!
                    1. +2
                      4 March 2015 17: 04
                      now we’ll find out why the F-22,35 multipurpose --- they are just the first wave aircraft, which, using stealth (special front sphere), strike at operating stations that survived the S-300,400 at maximum distances, including on the oncoming fighters at the maximum launch distance without entering into a maneuvering battle!
                      you are right, but why do you need to prove something to him? He has not read the application of f-117 in Iraq and lives in his own world where everything is fine and we have everything and will be if we want, but the truth is when you start asking for a name and a photo of the samples it starts to link that all this is secret, but still there laughing .
                      1. Kassandra
                        -1
                        4 March 2015 18: 09
                        in some strange little world you live.
                        After being used in Iraq, it was withdrawn from service ... it ran out of dibs for the Internet and therefore decided to throw it away? bully
                      2. +1
                        4 March 2015 19: 47
                        After being used in Iraq, it was withdrawn from service ... it ran out of dibs for the Internet and therefore decided to throw it away?
                        you forgot that it was used in Yugoslavia in 1999 where there was the first loss laughing and they took it off in 2006 or 2007, screwed up again, and in 1991 and 2003 in Iraq it flew off without loss.
                      3. Kassandra
                        -1
                        4 March 2015 21: 18
                        maybe you did not know that the first (or one of the first) of his losses was in Iraq in 1991

                        in 2003 the losses were about 15-18 aircraft, after which, without waiting for the next war, they took it off.

                        Do you even know that this is a subsonic plane? lol
                      4. +1
                        5 March 2015 04: 41
                        maybe you did not know that the first (or one of the first) of his losses was in Iraq in 1991

                        in 2003 the losses were about 15-18 aircraft, after which, without waiting for the next war, they took it off.
                        Evidence in the studio photo, video and confirmation from the United States that the f-117 was shot down in Iraq in 1991 wassat if nothing of this is not, but only links to a hurray-patriotic site, then just blah-blah, and everything that you are sending is a site from the category grandmother told me under the window, the same sites wrote about losses-B-2 to Yugoslavia and then miraculously it turned out that all planes fly. The same is true for f-16, all of his 45 victories are confirmed by the Syrians, I am waiting for confirmation from the United States that they lost a bunch of f-117 and f-14, I suppose they don’t want to admit your answer, do not tell me why they admitted all the losses that were confirmed by photos and video -16 and f-117 in Yugoslavia, the answer is one because they really were, and the rest is proto gossip in which you believe, for example, our Defense Ministry loves to lie, for example, in 2008 there is a video where pilots of downed planes say that they were on 24, and the Ministry of Defense still does not recognize losses. And about the F-16, this bad plane (in your opinion) sold 4500 units and is still being bought after 40 years from the first flight, even for the old they are willing to pay more money than for a new instant-29, think about it, and the answer is simple they have sarye upokovono better than our "unparalleled" you are right VAF brought a photo of super-etenders because the old etender is packed better than our mig-29K and su-30M2 the military.
                      5. Kassandra
                        0
                        6 March 2015 17: 07
                        What, right here and for everyone?

                        and about 3-5 thousand shot down Americans in Vtenama too?
                        in my opinion it’s better for you to engage in American propaganda on the site of another bully

                        not all aircraft (B-2) fly.
                        Syrians write about the F-15,
                        maybe our (and not yours) MO still lied at the July briefing?

                        the poor F-16 aircraft was sold in a large circulation so that countries would then fill up the positions of Soviet / Russian air defense systems with aluminum that remained from it (and it is a cheap single-engine low-speed SEAD).
                        Germany still occupied by the Americans, however, one cannot even have it ...
                        it’s just that if in some countries they buy the MiG-29, then the CIA will kill someone on the bridge. Germany, which got the GDR MiGs, was forced to give them to Poland, although it then had nothing but a tornado
                        countries "independent" but pro-Western take the F-18, from the aircraft of the usual scheme,
                        tailings for the American tail - F-15,
                        F-14 was allowed only to Shah Iran.

                        India somehow bought packed Dryers, would have bought MiG-29/35 in the option of soil-based but they do not.
                    2. Kassandra
                      -1
                      4 March 2015 17: 27
                      why such details?

                      F-22 is not a SEAD (first-wave aircraft, Wild Weasel), others are laying its way through ground-based air defense, it is already stealthily rummaging in the rear, using stealth. For Europe, they were not planned at all.

                      in addition to active air defense systems, there are still inactive ones that will hit them from the side view angles. 400-ka him and his nose.
                  2. +2
                    4 March 2015 17: 00
                    . otherwise, this F-16 except SEAD is just bullshit,
                    Yeah especially it talks about it
                    During the operation "Peace of Galilee" in the summer of 1982, the F-16 was one of the two main fighters of the Israeli Air Force. It was widely used in air battles with Syrian aviation, mainly by MiG-21, MiG-23MS / MF and MiG-23BN aircraft, gaining a total of 45 confirmed air victories.
                    The phrase read the confirmed victories, and not how you blah blah and all.
                    Raptors are not first-wave attack planes, but planes that were made to penetrate the gaps of border air defense penetrated by other aircraft (usually F-16) and then carry out attack missions in the rear of China and Siberia, where there is a rare location of air defense radars, which due to their smaller detection radius, they could be relatively safe to fly around.
                    This is what all specialist you prove. fool , f-22, initially could not perform strike missions, it was created as a fighter for gaining superiority in the air, and now it is limited in use on the ground, everything is clear with you another yap.
                    1. Kassandra
                      -1
                      4 March 2015 17: 37
                      maybe you will still learn the tactics of the Soviet Air Force on Goebbels' programs?
                      you have to go blah blah blah to hollywood, miraculously ...

                      almost all the victories available for the F-15 in fact. F-16s and Kfirs shot down almost exclusively Su-22s, not MiGs (even the 21st)
                      in the 1991 war, who shot down the coalition? F-16 or F-15? almost the same thing happened in 1982.

                      "specialty", read about the tender between YF-23 and YF-22, of which the second was chosen (although the first was better) because it could then be easier to convert into a fighter
                      they were both created as drummers to replace the F / A-117
                      1. +1
                        5 March 2015 05: 10
                        "specialty", read about the tender between YF-23 and YF-22, of which the second was chosen (although the first was better) because it could then be easier to convert into a fighter
                        they were both created as drummers to replace the F / A-117
                        Read carefully if you are given it.
                        In the United States, starting in 1981, research and development was underway, however, for the Advanced Tactical Fighter (ATF) program. Initially, the airplanes that were created as part of this program were primarily assigned the tasks of performing strike operations, the secondary function was to gain superiority in spirit. Attacks of the ground are rounder, which were at a great distance from the front, special attention was paid.

                        However, in 1984 the requirements for the airplane changed. The car was reoriented to solving problems of gaining superiority in spirit. One of the reasons for this was the creation of the Su-27 fighter in the Soviet Alliance - a worthy competitor to the Eagle F-15. US Air Force analysts evaluated the performance of the newly-made aircraft for perfection, despite the scornful ratings of the Su-27 fighter on the pages of the western air press. The appearance in the USSR of a newly made machine required the accelerated creation of a Igloo replacement.

                        Among the main requirements put forward to the newly minted airplane were: supersonic cruising flight speed when the engine was running at a jerky order; low visibility; the ability to operate from runways up to 915 m long (initially a length of 455-610 m was required); increased maneuverability at supersonic and subsonic speeds; superior performance in aerial combat. At the same time, the “shock” requirements from the US Air Force specification were completely withdrawn. It was considered that the majestic task of a fighter, for the sake of which its other functions could be compromised, is to conquer and maintain air supremacy.
                        Once again for you key phrases if you do not understand anything
                        At the same time, the “shock” requirements from the US Air Force specification were completely withdrawn. It was considered that the majestic task of a fighter, for the sake of which its other functions could be compromised, is to conquer and maintain air supremacy.
                        Now I hope that you will be able to master the power that the planes didn’t fully possess some of the shock functions, although I doubt very much that you understood something on the basis of this, you are carrying all nonsense in your comments.
                        On January 21, 2009, a group of US congressmen sent a letter to President Barack Obama informing them of the distribution of the S-200/300 air defense systems around the world, as the main argument for the continued production of F-22 Raptor fighters
                        but about its percussive capabilities maximum that can
                        adjustable bombs JDAM and guided high-precision bombs class SDB (Small Diameter Bomb) GBU-39
                        I hope overpower.
                      2. Kassandra
                        -1
                        6 March 2015 17: 16
                        Find the English text on the competition between YF-23 and YF-22, please do not disgrace.

                        it emphasizes the wording YF-22 won - more agile as a fighter

                        at first they were both stealth strike fighters, not current stealth fighters or air superiority (like the F-15)
                      3. +1
                        5 March 2015 05: 42
                        Both aircraft are rated as excellent fighters and pilots are happy to fly them. They are a highly complex weapons system, which is something more than the sum of its components and therefore it is useless to emphasize individual advantages.
                        It is necessary to consider the components of the aircraft weapons system in the complex. MiG-29 even in training close air combat proved superior to the F-16.
                        Both cars have their advantages and disadvantages. When using air-to-air weapons at close range, the MiG-29 is probably the best machine, at an average distance both fighters depend on the quality of the missiles on the plane.
                        Like the MiG-29 and the F-16 are outstanding aircraft for air combat, which can optimally perform their tasks. The differences between them are not so great that they could not be compensated by good pilots. Probably the decisive factor for victory is again what kind of training the pilot has.
                        If you ask the personal opinion of the author, the MiG-29 is slightly superior to the F-16. But, as already mentioned, this is a personal opinion with which one can argue wonderfully.
                        Remember the phrase
                        Like the MiG-29 and F-16 are outstanding aircraft for air combat
                        and more
                        If you ask the personal opinion of the author, the MiG-29 is slightly superior to the F-16. But, as already mentioned, this is a personal opinion with which one can argue wonderfully.
                        Planes are equal.
                      4. Kassandra
                        -1
                        6 March 2015 17: 22
                        yeah yeah ...
                        Quote: Sergei1982
                        Planes are equal.

                        LTX compare them, a miracle in feathers!
                        especially maximum speeds ...

                        in the MiG-29 they are, combat, "approximately equal" to the F-15
                        the radius is small, but at first it was intended to be based on unpaved airfields. bully
  21. 0
    1 March 2015 23: 23
    It would be great to tear off the fine for the Mistrals and their cost from the French, plus tear off the back so that they would certainly not be sold to anyone.

    And if we also replace "rafali" with our "drying" and 20 billion will fall into our pocket ....))))

    But the Indians decided to diversify their fleet not from a good life ... In 90, when our ability to maintain Indian Soviet and Russian aircraft was poor, the Indians made conclusions ... And we decided not to put our eggs in one basket, suddenly of this Russia, after a decade of stability, 90 will come again ... It's expensive, but India can afford it
  22. +2
    2 March 2015 09: 41
    a month ago I read in almost every Russian publication that India has already 100% refused! now the battle is still ongoing. in a week they will say that the Russian SUs were not offered to India at all. in short, you would not be in a hurry to pass off your fantasies as desired. Even now, the Russian press becomes as yellow as the Ukrainian press.
  23. The comment was deleted.
  24. 0
    12 December 2016 21: 21
    just a little 2 years is not enough before this news IN - is there nothing to print or a place to take?