Minsk "Surprise"

The 16-hour negotiations in Minsk to resolve the conflict in Ukraine broke all negotiation records of modern times. Accredited journalists, having received a card on which was written “Minsk. 11 February 2015 of the Year ”, of course, suspected that the negotiations could be delayed, but so much so! .. As a result, journalistic accreditation for 11 February after 3,5 hours after the start of the negotiations of the“ Norman Four ”turned out to be“ overdue ” . The lengthy discussions in the Minsk Palace of Independence, which by definition could not be simple, seemed to end with the appearance of “white smoke from a chimney” - recalling the tradition of electing the Pope of Rome. Some “white smoke appearances” did not wait and settled into an alarming dream right in the press center hall, someone was located on the floor in the hall of the Palace of Independence. As a result, “smoke” appeared, but its color was such that not everyone, even now, can state with a high degree of unambiguity whether it is white or black - did the “reset” take place and the choice of a peaceful solution, or did the negotiations result in nothing?

Not only those who tried to follow them in Minsk or in any other city of the planet were ambiguous estimated the results of many hours of negotiations, but also those who took the most direct part in the negotiations or represented the organizing side. Perhaps, to those people who exactly saw the “white smoke”, it is safe to refer President of Belarus Alexander Lukashenko, for whom the very fact of organizing a “Norman” meeting in Minsk is a big plus. Plus, considering the fact that the head of the Republic of Belarus, for years on end, called by the West “the last dictator” of Europe and receiving one portion of sanctions after another, February 11-12 became a handshake for the EU leaders - Germany and France. Smiles, flowers, everything ... How long? - a separate question, but the fact is that the rating of Lukashenko after the organization of such serious negotiations in Belarus has grown significantly in the eyes of the so-called world community.

Alexander Lukashenko after the end of the negotiations of the "Norman Four" said (quote "BelTA"):

They (Putin, Merkel, Hollande, Poroshenko - author's note) are just great, they have withstood this marathon, but you do not exaggerate the fact that these negotiations went on for such a long time. Questions of war and peace are solved for months, or even years, and here it was possible to reach agreement on suspending war for only 15 (16) hours. Well done!

This statement by Alexander Lukashenko, which seems to be positive, contains a key phrase, in essence, defining the outcome of the negotiations in the Belarusian capital: “we managed to reach an agreement on STARTING WAR.”

First, without any flowery diplomatic linguistic constructions, war is called a war. Secondly, what is even more important at the moment, it is only about “suspension”. That is, the whole point is that the war does not stop completely, and for some time it can be "frozen." What time is it? How long will the “suspension” last, and will it last at all? There were no answers to these questions before the start of negotiations, and not now.

However, on Thursday 12 February Kremlin official site опубликовал documentWhich is entitled as the “Package of measures for the implementation of the Minsk agreements”. In order to be able to evaluate the essence of this document in full, you need to submit the document itself, which is called paragraph by point, while taking into account that it is difficult to call a single document for a number of positions. The ambiguity is manifested in the first paragraph of the document, which was originally signed: Leonid Kuchma, Heidi Tagliavini, Mikhail Zurabov, Igor Plotnitsky and Alexander Zakharchenko.

1. An immediate and comprehensive ceasefire in certain areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine and its strict implementation starting from 00:00. (Kyiv time) February 15, 2015.

Ambiguity in the phrase "individual areas". I do not want to be engaged in literalism, but this is not a plan for holding the race in bags, but about human lives! It is clear that the document is preliminary, but if specific areas for a comprehensive cease-fire are not mentioned now, is it worth waiting for a real implementation of this item from the same Kiev in the future? Does this point mean that if some monitoring group will monitor its compliance, then this group will not have a fundamental possibility of monitoring the entire territory of Donbass, because we are talking about certain "certain areas". As the tragedy with the shelling of Kramatorsk shows, such an option can be used by punitive divisions, uncontrolled by Kiev, to carry out further provocations.

2. Removal of all heavy weapons by both sides at equal distances in order to create a security zone at least 50 km wide from each other for artillery systems of 100 mm and more, a security zone 70 km wide for the MLRS and 140 km wide for the MLRS "Tornado-S", " Hurricane "," Smerch "and tactical missile systems" Point "(" Point U "):

- for Ukrainian troops: from the actual line of contact;
- for the armed formations of individual regions of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine (oh, this political correctness ... - author’s note): from the contact line according to the Minsk Memorandum of September 19 2014.
The withdrawal of the above heavy weapons should begin no later than the second day after the cease-fire and be completed within 14 days.

Stop! Stop! Stop! The item is long - "blah blah blah" a lot. But what strikes the eye in the first sentences, so much so that the eyes are rounded and enlarged to the size of the Soviet metal ruble? - Tornado-S. What, sir, sorry? That same installation of volley fire "Tornado-S", which is in service with the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, and no one else, no matter how much? .. Paying attention to the fact that the document as presented on the Kremlin website, signed not only by Kuchma, but also by the heads of the DPR and the LPR, plus - by Mr. Zurabov, I would like to ask these people the question: how did this “Tornado” appear in the document along with the words about the need for its withdrawal? Honestly, after such an item it is foolish to blame the accusations of the Ukrainian side on the supply of Russian weapons the militia ... For now, even psaki has an official reason to declare that, they say, see: the document has been signed and published on the Kremlin’s website, which means that the Carpenter, Zakharchenko, and the Kremlin “confirm” that the weapons in service only the Russian army "Tornado-S" may well show up in the Donbass, and that these MLRSs must also be removed "from the line of contact."

Now try to prove that there are no Tornado-Ss in the Donbass ... If Poroshenko does not understand the military equipment, he said that Kramatorsk was fired from Tornado, then from Tornado - and no nails, let even the Ukrainian military tried to explain to him that the type of MLRS was completely different. It turns out that Poroshenko was the one who managed to push this clearly anti-Russian point into the document, and the leaders of the DPR and the LPR signed it? .. If they did not sign the document, then why was the wording issued on the Russian president’s website:

There is another point, to put it mildly, at this point: “withdrawal of the listed heavy weapons (blah blah blah) no later than the second day after the cease-fire”. What is the vicious circle? - Heavy weapons will be withdrawn after the cease-fire, but this fire is unlikely to be able to really stop, because heavy weapons are not diverted ... Or is it a matter of a cease-fire solely from weapons of smaller calibers?

Further in the text:
This process will be facilitated by the OSCE with the support of the Tripartite Contact Group.

3. To ensure effective monitoring and verification of the cease-fire regime and the withdrawal of heavy weapons from the OSCE from the first day of withdrawal, using all necessary technical means, including satellites, UAVs, radar systems, etc.

4. On the first day after the challenge, start a dialogue on the modalities of holding local elections in accordance with Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine "On the temporary order of local self-government in certain districts of Donetsk and Lugansk regions", as well as on the future regime of these regions on the basis of this law.

Immediately, no later than 30 days from the date of signing this document, adopt a resolution of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine indicating the territory covered by the special regime in accordance with the Law of Ukraine "On the temporary procedure of local self-government in certain districts of Donetsk and Lugansk oblasts" in the Minsk memorandum of September 19 2014

That is, it first talks about some particular areas of Donbass, and then about the fact that the Rada needs to adopt a resolution on what exactly these territories are and on which of them to hold elections. Rada, of course, will accept ... She thinks there every day, how can she accept ... a document on the temporary order of local self-government.

5. Provide pardon and amnesty by the enactment of a law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain districts of Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine.

Under this point, apparently, trying to push through the release of Nadezhda Savchenko, who in Russia is accused of involvement in the death of Russian journalists.

6. To ensure the release and exchange of all hostages and illegally detained persons on the basis of the “all for all” principle. This process should be completed at the latest on the fifth day after the challenge.

7. Ensure safe access, delivery, storage and distribution of humanitarian aid to those in need through an international mechanism.

8. Defining the modalities of the full restoration of social and economic relations, including social transfers, such as payment of pensions and other payments (revenues and incomes, timely payment of all utility bills, tax resumption within the legal framework of Ukraine).

To this end, Ukraine will restore management of a segment of its banking system in areas affected by the conflict, and perhaps an international mechanism will be created to facilitate such transfers.

9. Restoration of full control over the state border by the Government of Ukraine in the entire conflict zone, which should begin on the first day after the local elections and end after a comprehensive political settlement (local elections in certain regions of Donetsk and Lugansk regions based on the Law of Ukraine and constitutional reform) by the end 2015 of the year, subject to the implementation of the item 11 - in consultation and in consultation with representatives of individual regions of Donetsk and Lugansk regions within the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group.

“After a comprehensive political settlement” ... Does anyone really believe that? How do any of the right people believe that an item with the 10 number will work:

10. The withdrawal of all foreign armed groups, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under the supervision of the OSCE. Disarm all illegal groups.

This is exactly how Petro Poroshenko disarms the battalion “named after Dzhokhar Dudayev”, “Azov”, “Aydar” and expels Polish, Swedish, Finnish, Baltic, American and other mercenaries ... Peter Alekseevich’s powers are so extensive that he can afford letting one take it like that, and disarm all the mercenaries and turn them out of the "nenka" ...

11. Conducting a constitutional reform in Ukraine with the entry into force by the end of 2015 of the new constitution, which assumes decentralization as a key element (taking into account the peculiarities of certain regions of Donetsk and Lugansk regions, agreed with representatives of these regions), and the adoption of permanent legislation on the special status of certain regions Donetsk and Lugansk regions.

I don’t want to discuss the constitutional reform in Ukraine at all, because in terms of “observance” of the constitution, Ukraine is an outstanding state. Only in Ukraine you can make an unconstitutional coup, raping all the basic laws of the state, then use the same laws to come to power, then to declare that the current constitution is anti-Ukrainian, and it needs to be replaced by another ... Next - again in a circle ...

12. On the basis of the Law of Ukraine "On the temporary order of local self-government in certain districts of Donetsk and Lugansk regions" issues relating to local elections will be discussed and agreed with representatives of individual districts of Donetsk and Lugansk regions within the framework of the Trilateral Contact Group. Elections will be held in compliance with relevant OSCE standards when monitored by the OSCE / ODIHR.

"OSCE standards"? It's funny, isn't it ... This is not the standards on the basis of which Kosovo without a referendum was recognized as an independent state, and the Crimea on the basis of a referendum is still not recognized as Russian territory. Strong standards of this OSCE, and most importantly unambiguous - you will not say anything ...

13. Intensify the activities of the Trilateral Contact Group, including through the creation of working groups to implement relevant aspects of the Minsk Agreements. They will reflect the composition of the Trilateral Contact Group.

For some reason, after these negotiations and the document presented on the website of the Russian president, the feeling that at least one foot fell into dog shit doesn’t leave - and something not with the smell of lavender and daisies is dripping from above ... I would like to hope that such a bad feeling only the author of the material, and that in fact, everything is much more optimistic, because nobody spoke about the implementation ...

Comments

[rotmistr60]

I would like to hope that only the author of the material has such a nasty feeling, and that in fact everything is much more optimistic, because no one spoke about the implementation ...

I want to upset you. You do not have that feeling alone. Personally, I have an anxious feeling that Russia was once again divorced and, moreover, divorced in favor of Poroshenko.

[Letun]

I also can’t imagine the fact that Putin is a nightingale singing about the indisputable inviolability of the territorial integrity of Ukraine. Why, then, last year, was to pull up troops to the border and declare that if the database began, our Army would defend the civilian population? Actually why all the porridge was brewed. Or then he did not support territorial integrity? And why, then, has he changed his mind?
And I will say one more thing: if the West would want to tear away from Ukraine Yanukovych, for example, Western Ukraine, they would do it! They would hold elections (as they were in the Donbass), they would begin to repeat about the right of peoples to self-determination, democratic values, independent and freedom-loving spirit of zapadentsev, etc. And they would tear it as well as Kosovo from Serbia. And there would be no talk of territorial integrity.
In general, I do not see any advantages other than a ceasefire (which will not be respected) from this agreement. The West is putting pressure on Russia, and unfortunately it is becoming obvious that it is pushing successfully.

[drop1]

Quote: Letun

In general, I do not see any advantages other than a ceasefire (which will not be respected) from this agreement.

However, it seems merged Novorossia ...

[Alexander Romanov]

Quote: drop1

However, it seems merged Novorossia ...

Komenty in Russia-Putin leaked New Russia
Komenty in Ukraine-Poroshenko leaked Ukraine
Komenty in Europe -Oland and Merkel merged Ukraine

[sergey32]

I would rename Ukraine novopodpin Dosiya.

[GDP]

We definitely got divorced, excuse me, but it looks like our government was just intimidating ...
Ukraine has not yet made any of the key concessions, and the same thing in this document.
Not a word about federalization
Not about the status of the Russian language in Ukraine
About what guarantees will be in Donetsk and Lugansk
Disarm, give us control of the border, agree to be subjects of Ukraine, forget about everything that you fought for and MAYBE we will not destroy you and pursue you. And we need to believe in words ....

To follow all the points of the agreement is to surrender to the winner of Poroshenko and believe in his decency ...
All blood and suffering were in vain. The people of New Russia have not achieved anything.

[GDP]

By the way - Poroshenko commented today on the Minsk agreements and said that no social payments would be paid on the territory of Donetsk and Lugansk region, controlled by militias, until the sovereignty of Ukraine was fully restored over these territories ...

[GDP]

And one moment:

The Minister of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine Pavel Klimkin said that the president of the country does not intend to amnesty the leaders of the militia of the DNI and LC. Kiev, according to Klimkin, will conduct the procedure for the issue of prisoners of war and amnesty for prisoners in accordance with the law of the Verkhovna Rada adopted in September 2014. In this document, there is no talk of pardoning the leaders of the militias. At the same time, the document signed by the February 12 contact group refers to “pardon and amnesty of persons in connection with the events” in the Donbass.

But only one day has passed, and they already behave like masters in the Donbas - they execute, pardon, and interpret the agreement this way and that ...

[Botanologist]

Quote: GDP

Foreign Minister of Ukraine Pavlo Klimkin said that the president of the country does not intend to amnesty the leaders of the militia

And on the website censor.net, in general, Ukrainians say this, that it’s time to bring napalm to Kiev by echelons. SO WHAT? If you think that Putin needed the Minsk agreements for the sake of Ukraine or the DPR, you don’t rummage in politics at all, and don’t even dare to comment. Minsk-2 is a step in favor of the world of Russia and Europe. And that’s all. And in these agreements it was possible to write whatever you want, even though the first cavalry army was withdrawn from the Crimea, this is just a way to bend Gunpowder and show what we are concerned about. Do you think that you will immediately be presented with the new constitution of Dill, with additions and amendments.

Let’s not fuss, but drive into the topic. Sorry for the harshness, but tired of ... treat ... very smart from the mind.

[matross]

Botanologist Respect
Let me quote myself from yesterday: "The text of the agreement is not important at all. No one is going to observe it on any point. Negotiations, in the absence of the United States, were purely ritual in nature. Gathered around the fire, smoked a pipe of peace all night, and in the morning buried a tomahawk war ... "
The ritual was useful in that three (!) Pale-faced - two presidents and one chancellor - were in talks with the red-skinned leader of the savages, urging him to tie scalps from his fellow tribesmen. And he kept running to call the black master ...
That is, serious Europe has almost realized that it almost let the cannibals into the house, and quarreled over them with normal white guys ... It remains "a little bit" - to overcome the inertia and start calling everything by its proper names. So soon they will generally become bolder and begin to be rude to the black master)
Sorry for overloading allegories - Friday still)

[Botanologist]

Quote: matRoss

In the absence of the United States, the negotiations were purely ritualistic. Gathered around the fire, smoked a pipe of peace all night, and in the morning they buried the tomahawk of war ... "

Welcome . Friday, xnumx, sin not to drink.

As for the tomahawk of the war, they did not bury it, but agreed to implement the agreement on the burying procedure .... somehow.

[Russian063]

sort of Russian and some kind of words ... mattresses. or I ...

[Russian063]

well read ... allegory just right. nice to train mosk

[dsg345tdg]

I want to give one piece of advice on how to quit smoking in a week! I've already tried everything, and electronic cigarettes and pills, hypnosis - all this is complete nonsense. But he found salvation in this completely new way. Everything here is described in detail on the blog - http://smokenosov.blogspot.com

[NordUral]

And you think, where did he get such impudence.

[wolf7]

Accordingly, it follows that in a week or two, these agreements will simply wipe out one place and continue in a new way.

[svd-xnumx]

Accordingly, it follows that in a week or two, these agreements will simply wipe out one place and continue in a new way.

Judging by the situation they already wiped

[efimich41]

They will continue almost without stopping. The shelling will be conducted on Sunday 15.02.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX. At the agreement, even the paint does not have time to dry, as it will be broken by Kiev.

[oracul]

GDP !!! Do not sprinkle ash on your head. Of course, stupidity is always stupid (it's me about the Tornado). And for this kind of bloopers, figuratively speaking, heads should fly. But the main thing is different. I’m sure that Putin’s participation in the negotiations should be considered solely from the standpoint that Russia is ready to assist in finding peaceful ways to solve the Donbass problem, but firstly, it is not a party to the conflict, and secondly, GDP is hardly so naive that believe in the sincerity of Ukrohunta.
It was a chance for Poroshenko and he, in all his actions, most likely will not use it (whether he will or will not give it). In this situation, Russia shows the whole world only its goodwill.
We often recall that Russia has two allies - the army and navy. I would add time, but it is sorely lacking to rearm them. Any respite is for our good. It must be understood that the economic potential of the USA, the EU and their allies is incommensurably higher than ours, and besides, we have just begun to move forward under the continuous fire of sanctions. In my opinion, Russia does not have real allies today who are ready with it to resist the pressure from the West. China, India, Iran, Turkey have their own deep interests, and so far they are interested in an alliance with us, they are our supporters. And if not? That is the question? In politics, one must have a cold head and possess information in order to calculate everything correctly. This is not a sport: emotions here only harm.

[Alex20042004]

So, at least untie your hands !!!!!!!!!!

[Botanologist]

Quote: GDP

We definitely got divorced, excuse me, but it looks like our government was just intimidating ...

I read your comment and there is not enough evil. Here, take the paper and write what you had to AGREE with Merkel, Hollande and Potroshenko. I AGREE, I repeat, but not the priest to show how you want.
And then coordinate your silly cheap fantasies and tell everyone what a cool thinker you are.

Quote: GDP

To follow all the points of the agreement is to surrender to the winner of Poroshenko and believe in his decency ...

In more detail, where did you see the winner Potroshenko in the text. He leaves everywhere, and even has to pay for everything. Is this a victory?

[Russian063]

but only the powder leaves? or am I misunderstanding something?

[GDP]

In more detail, where did you see the winner Potroshenko in the text. He leaves everywhere, and even has to pay for everything. Is this a victory?

Read more:

Who will control the borders with the Russian Federation according to the agreement? Militia or APU? Who will leave the borders with the Russian Federation, Ukraine or the militia?
Now think how long the army of New Russia will use up its ammunition in case of warfare? Or do you really believe that militia echelons capture captured weapons every day?

Now please tell me where "he leaves" from the territory of the DPR and LPR? Maybe the Armed Forces of Ukraine liberated some settlements and they were occupied by the VSN?

And what will Poroshenko pay for? He made it clear that he would not pay salaries or pensions until the sovereignty of Ukraine was fully restored on the territory of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions ... That is, until Novorossia ceases to exist.

[Cynic]

Quote: GDP

Who will control the borders with the Russian Federation according to the agreement? Militia or APU? Who will leave the borders with the Russian Federation, Ukraine or the militia?

Mmmm, whose interpretation of this paragraph should you state, our president or Urkain?
Ali you are not up to date ?

[zenith]

It is not necessary to assess the scale of the planetary redistribution so straightforwardly, as an example of one action in Donbass. Everyone must have watched the "storm gates", and so there was a phrase, "yes losses, but we pulled them all over ourselves and ....". How do we know why it all started and what the tasks are. The military has its own tactics and strategy. Unfortunately, the peace in the world has ended and today who will impose on whom, squeeze and ultimately chpoknet has become a fact. And not only in Ukraine everything is decided. Ours are slowly laying around the US on their mainland. They are going to dig a canal in Nicaragua, and our bases are planning, for what do you think, well, not so that little green men get an even tan. With Cuba, movement, Argentina, etc. We are getting closer so that the desire for the pin camp is less, if anything, to disgrace the world. Bucks are banned everywhere - this is generally a specific hit. And the Crimea is sharp and dustless, if so is OUR, well, of course, do not go pin dos where you were not invited. (They built there, settled in, spilled their own blood? And this is a present from Rossei - you can sell it, a present is not a pity. Kukish to both. We, for sure, built there and spilled blood.) Right there stress in Donbass is a separate song. Cruel words, but everything seems to be systematically going for a big and decisive action. A resume "leaked" is too superficial thinking and it should look just like that. Nobody leaked anyone, and in a hurry you can only succeed with fleas. Everything is clear according to the newly developed plan. They are too straightforward and therefore they will not see success. Soon these shares will be perceived as an anecdote. "We signed an armistice for this with sanctions." It seems to me that VV is "seriously" talking about (sanctions) in order to avert their cloudy eyes, yes, like you gave us so bad luck, but we will catch our breath equally. Let them think it's like that, cool and they are damn peppers with sanctions. It looks like he is afraid to scare them away while they are a drill rod, before being swept away in bulk.

[zenith]

Blinnn gave me the eldest! Class, even though the sergeant jumped over here. Can I have a border guard, ah? Greens are more familiar to me. :)

[Hajduk]

Quote: GDP

To follow all the points of the agreement is to surrender to the winner of Poroshenko and believe in his decency ...
All blood and suffering were in vain. The people of New Russia have not achieved anything.

My call to the militia to go all the way and not give a damn about the ceasefire, and not listen to the anti-people power of the oligarchs, led by the gdp, which is essentially the Trojan horse of the west in Ukraine. help the heroes of Donbass

[U-47]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Komenty in Russia-Putin leaked New Russia
Komenty in Ukraine-Poroshenko leaked Ukraine
Komenty in Europe -Oland and Merkel merged Ukraine

There is also some discouragement on Georgian sites.
The Poles scream that M. and O. solved the economic troubles of their countries, and laid the rest of Europe.
The Balts suspect that they have seats in the stalls at Putin's show "Kuzkina's Mother in Courland."

[Woolfy]

In-in. Everywhere they write that they were leaked. Panic in all communities. I think that you just need to turn off the TV and not watch the press until the 15th. As they say in Odessa ... We will see! In the meantime, you should not upset yourself.

[U-47]

Quote: Woolfy

In-in. Everywhere they write that they were leaked.

Yes, I got sick of this plumbing whining. And here too ... Karlhorst was expected, or what? As a matter of fact, it’s clear that this is a propeller, and not "the final paper", as grilled by Prof. Preobrazhensky. The sanctions remained, the intention of the states to drain weapons from Afghanistan into the xox-dumpster did not go anywhere either. The change of the constitution in the UA, control over the border, the special status of the regions ... Everything is postponed for the long term. It is hard to believe that they will tie up the shooting, they will blame each other for the violation, but, of course, Putin will be to blame. Vaudeville.

[GDP]

In-in. Everywhere they write that they were leaked

And you read the clauses of the agreement and think about who will benefit from this agreement and who has achieved what. Only not with slogans, but with logic!

Slogans are also different and not only - "Putin leaked"
But also "oh, what fellows we are" "Putin has a plan" and so on ....

Think about what happens if, for example, Ukraine gains control of its borders and then resumes hostilities?

In the contract all the time are solid traps ...

Or are you so sure of Poroshenko’s decency?

[jjj]

Quote: GDP

Think about what happens if, for example, Ukraine gains control of its borders and then resumes hostilities?

Does it mean that Ukraine gets control over the border? You can say yes.
But as? Then, when it will carry out constitutional reform and become a federation. The word "federation" does not sound in the document, but the reorganization that needs to be done within the framework of the constitutional reform is federalization.
And when will Ukraine become a federation?
Never!
Therefore, control over the border will also never get

[GDP]

The word "federation" does not sound in the document, but the reorganization that needs to be done within the framework of the constitutional reform is federalization.

The answer is below:

On the first day after the challenge, start a dialogue on the modalities of local elections in accordance with Ukrainian law and the Law of Ukraine “On the provisional order of local self-government in certain regions of Donetsk and Lugansk regions”, as well as on the future regime of these regions on the basis of this law.

Immediately, no later than 30 days from the date of signing this document, adopt a resolution of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine indicating the territory to which the special regime applies in accordance with the Law of Ukraine “About the provisional order of local self-government in certain areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions»On the basis of the line established in the Minsk memorandum of 19 September 2014

You didn’t understand something, it’s not about the federation and in general there’s no question of any autonomy.
This is about temporaryself-government ...

Ukrainians promised this to the Donetsk people when they only stood with slogans in the square in Donetsk and peacefully asked for federalization. By the way, they also promised the Harkovites, they just forgot right away as soon as the security forces from Lviv and Kiev entered and took control of the situation.

They were promised it then, and not temporarily, but on an ongoing basis? Why? Because it does not oblige to anything.

And in the current treaty, there’s no even talk of permanent self-government within unitary Ukraine, and there’s no longer even talk of Donetsk and Lugansk region as a whole, we are only talking about a temporary transition period for the 1 / 3 territories of Donetsk and Lugansk regions ...

What is this temporary self-government you even know? Anything that any other region of Ukraine cannot afford is anything.
The status of the Russian language as regional? So it is allowed in other areas ...
Possibility of holding elections of the Governor? So only from the candidates approved by Kiev.
And how fair will these elections be? I assure you, tomorrow Kiev will hold a referendum in Donetsk and 90% of the population will vote for unitary Ukraine and Poroshenko’s support ...
And Europe recognizes these elections as fair and democratic ...

[jjj]

Just about to start talking on the topic. And in the 30-day period, the Rada should designate the territory. And then constitutional reform. Who can really think that Ukraine will do all this? So in Novorossia they believe that even before the vote in the Rada, the matter will not come. Therefore, all agreements will not have legal force. The situation will develop according to its scenario. But blaming, referring to the document, it will be possible to Ukraine

[saag]

Quote: jjj

Therefore, all agreements will not have legal force.

Even now they are legally insignificant, because they are not signed by officials who are not even in the civil service

[svd-xnumx]

But blaming, referring to the document, it will be possible to Ukraine

So Psaki to the question, Will there be sanctions for Ukraine for not fulfilling the Minsk agreements

The State Department considers it unlikely adoption of sanctions against Ukraine in case of violation of the Minsk agreements. This position, in response to a question from an AP journalist, was expressed by US Foreign Secretary Spokesman Jen Psaki.

“Of course, we urge both sides to abide by the agreement, but I think that this (sanctions against Ukraine. - Ed.) Is unlikely,” said Psaki. - Over the past six months, Ukraine has complied with the Minsk agreements, but Russia has not. This is what we rely on, - the representative of the State Department argued its position., Reports http://monavista.ru

Who did not understand, then Minsk-2 is the same as Minsk-1, in which ours introduced a step-by-step and with an approximate time indication of the procedure of reconciliation, counting on the fact that in the west for not fulfilling the first points by Ukraine (who hopes that they will be fulfilled , that complete optimist) Poroshenko pissed on ears.Ved on Minsk-1 all the requirements related only to Russia due to the fact that they did not "close" the border.No judging by the reaction of the Svidomites and any Psak, the new agreement will also be read from the bottom.

[VAF]

Quote: svd-xnumx

Who does not understand, then Minsk-2 is the same as Minsk-1

You are wrong, dear "urya-patriot"
You can watch Minsk-1 results on TV news on any program.
The results of Minsk-2 will be even worse. dill will increase the density of artillery per km, learn from amers and psheks and ... it will be like .. I will not write further .. look at the chronicle of the Second World War.
Therefore, dill is now "flopping" tirelessly. To show the population .. look. What will happen, but .. there will still be !!!

[vityanya.68]

JJJ I press five! And then leaked, leaked! No one, no one and no one merged! V.V.P. I did everything beautifully! We saw on the box how he smiled, that! Whoever was merged there and framed is Porash with Ukraine! All that is written in these agreements is not a dogma. Just a piece of paper! Russia Novorossia will not leave a hundred pounds !!! Back to turn on already very late !!! So leave alarmism and snot! We will see!

[U-47]

Quote: GDP

And you read the clauses of the agreement and think who will benefit from this agreement

and who said it should be beneficial to everyone? This would be the aerobatics of diplomacy, examples of which in recent history are not. And will not be. Someone always remains impaired. By and large, Russia has nothing to lose: the sanctions mechanism will not reverse this, the tension in the region will not remove. Presumably, mutual accusations of violating ceasefire agreements will also be. So, there will be peaceful deaths too. Through the mouth of Poroshenko, the States announced that the idea of ​​federalization is slag.

[woron333444]

Border control after the election, will there be elections?

[socrates7]

As soon as the negotiations entered a protracted stage, it became clear that the contact group had been idle. There could be no other. Zurabov, Kuchma - it’s ridiculous to expect something meaningful and serious from these people.

[Cynic]

Quote: sokrat7

The contact group idled.

Are you forgotten _

[Botanologist]

Quote: Woolfy

In-in. Everywhere they write that they were leaked.

It's like choosing a car. European - d ... mo, because there is no real Japanese quality. Japanese - d ... mo, because there is no real German quality. American - d ... mo, because there is neither Japanese nor German quality. etc.
Any patriot - even ours, even Ukrainian, what is he good at? Only because he needs everything, immediately and yesterday. And he sees only what is in front of his nose, and then only if you put it there with this nose ... you shove it.
I personally saw what -2 in Minsk:
- not a word about Crimea that is buzzing.
- Amnesty for the militia without reservations - which is also buzzing.
- Ukraine’s money should go to the DPR and LPR, and EUROPA has signed it.
- Of course, we will control the borders, then, probably, someday, only by whom ??? Probably, by the autonomous police and customs of the DPR and LPR. And who do we have there ??? Read who the DNR police are and calm down.
- of course, the militia in the format of battalions of Novorossiya such as "Somalia" and "Ghost".
- Of course, autonomy in the framework of constitutional reform.
“Well, foreign legions are being deduced.” On which Ukraine had high hopes.

And, I repeat once again, Ukraine should pay for this, under which EUROPA has signed,
and secondly, tell me at least one point that you would bring to the place of the President of Ukraine to Kiev and say - that's how cool I am. If Gunpowder is killed in the Rada, I will not be surprised.

So where is the sink? What kind of sink? In general, from the point of view of Russian-European relations, what is the problem there? Or do you want our President to sit and roam before Merkel and Hollande? He can do it even if he wants.

[Far Republican]

Novorossiysk needs time to restore human reserves. Prepare a fist for Kharkov, do not remove the lid from the boiler, cook and cook! Well, they cry out that you don’t comply, it’s a provocation. In the middle of April, it’s better to start a counter-offensive in early May.

[svp67]

Quote: Far Republican

Novorossiys need time to restore human reserves

First of all, it is necessary to TRAIN. The fights for the airport and Debaltseve were too heavy, on the verge of stability ...

[dobrjak]

Yes, a break as air is needed.

[Egoza]

Quote: Far Republican

In the middle of April, it is better to start a counter-offensive in early May.

LATE! No more negotiation! Act now, so that everything will end in March! In favor of Novorossmm, of course.

[U-47]

Quote: Egoza

LATE! No more negotiation!

Hollande doesn't think so. There, he doesn’t exclude a new meeting of the four.

[Alex]

Quote: U-47

Hollande doesn't think so. There, he doesn’t exclude a new meeting of the four.

Why not? It seems that Europe has found another tactic - the tactics of the fox: first, let the ponytail spend the night, then sleep on the bench, then ... Then the rabbit without a roof over his head remained.

[U-47]

Quote: Alex

Then the bunny without a roof over his head remained.

I don’t remember what happened next: the hare, like, then squeezed the hut?

[Russian063]

the hare suffered ... a rooster came and spread a fox on his fingers.

[Alex]

Quote: Russian063

I don’t remember what happened next: the hare, like, then squeezed the hut?

Quote: Russian063

a rooster came and spread a fox on his fingers.

I’m afraid it was all easier in the fairy tale, here you don’t have time to do it - there is no one to hope for, only for yourself.

[svp67]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Komenty in Russia-Putin leaked New Russia
Komenty in Ukraine-Poroshenko leaked Ukraine
Komenty in Europe -Oland and Merkel merged Ukraine

What's in America? Who has Obama leaked? In general, it may even be good that NO ONE is satisfied with these "agreements" ... it will be easier to refuse them.

[Ascetic]

Quote: svp67

What in America? Who has Obama leaked? In general, it may even be good that NO ONE is satisfied with these "agreements" ... it will be easier to refuse them.

"Chosen" from the empire of goodness in their repertoire

The United States and its partners will strengthen sanctions against Russia, if they decidethat she supplies weapons to the Donbass militia, a senior US administration official said.

US threatens to increase sanctions against Russia

That is, not on the fact of taking place or not ... but if they decide ...

[Tummyr]

to the point you said

[An60]

“Chief, everything is gone!” Everyone leaked everyone.

[NordUral]

I don't give a damn about Merkel and Hollande, I don't give a shit about Parashenko! I have a brother and sister in Odessa with children and grandchildren. And I don’t give a damn. what will happen to them and other sane citizens of Ukraine, wherever it is. And it’s scary for their fate, especially for Donetsk and Lugansk, where, if this treacherous agreement is realized, the massacre of Russians and Ukrainians will begin.

[zzz]

Quote: drop1

However, it seems merged Novorossia ...

These words mean that Putin leaked himself! Who among those present here believes that our president has decided to commit suicide?
The game is thin and very long. And the results will be visible at the very end of the path that Russia has just begun. It will seem to us that everything is going wrong, that if we were in power, we would have done everything differently, and perhaps even get lost, and we may have to return to the original point, and perhaps we will be wounded and we will end up in the hospital, but how did you want? Russia has not one enemy, and how many apprentices these enemies still have in the form of Poles and Balts! All with one blow and it is not possible to win at once. Therefore, shouting "guard" is not worth it. Putin is not a suicide.

[VAF]

Quote: zzz

These words mean that Putin leaked himself! Who among those present here believes that our president has decided to commit suicide?

And where did you manage to see some kind of suicide?

[zzz]

vaf, I just don’t see him.

[Morfius]

It will seem to us that everything is going wrong, that we, if we were in power, would do everything differently,

I believe that it should be so. So that the enemy did not guess. We will look at the results.

[DRA-88]

Quote: Morfius

I believe that it should be so. So that the enemy did not guess

Again HPP ?! if it did not concern the innumerable victims of New Russia, I would laugh about you or with you. And therefore, read paragraph 9 of the contract, mat.

[Magamed]

We will look at the results.
In my opinion, we’ve already seen enough of the results, Odessa Boeing Mir1 Kramatorsk Mariupol, journalists, death and torture of civilians, what else needs to happen to make it clear that negotiating with the scum of death is like that! And we are all looking for the pros again and again. Let's wait !!!
For a year now the thought has not left that Putin has no plan, but there is only a response from the fire brigade. It is clear that we don’t know everything, but there are no pluses. Will you say Crimea? Yes of course! But!

[78bor1973]

I do not know, but according to my GDP, it understands perfectly well that this agreement is like a "dead poultice" and on the front, the situation with the Armed Forces of Ukraine is not much worse, but the appearance must be done to get rid of the sanctions.

[97110]

Quote: 78bor1973

but the view must be done to get rid of the sanctions.

Are you seriously? It seems to everyone that the sanctions will not be lifted in the foreseeable future. Because this solves the problems of the JUS. And all the Caudle of their "allies" are run by managers hired by YUS. The lifting of sanctions does not depend on the behavior of the GDP and the RF as a whole. Depends on the decision of the leaders of the JUS, who will tell the maximum what he should do. there is only one option for lifting the sanctions - to force the sanctions. How is the second question. But while YUS rules Europe, there are no prospects. If Europe can become independent, even in parts - sanctions will fall down. Or with JUS some NS will happen. But it won't be soon.

[Tummyr]

as for me, to the point you said

[-Barbarian-]

The game is thin and sooo long. And the results will be visible at the very end of the path.

I, of course, can understand you, especially your hope for the strategic genius of the "great Pu", because only in this case some "light at the end of the tunnel" can await you. However, the real situation is far from your hopes.
1. Immediate Conflict is taking place inside Ukraine and the warring parties, especially the "republicans" and civilians, will not agree to live in the same house with their killers. De facto, these are already strangers.
Moreover, the practice and logic of the latest "peace agreements" on the part of the punishers (murderers of their own people) proves duplicity, lies and multivariate moral values ​​(a "special point of view" for all "interested parties" - EU, USA, RF, L-DNR , Ukraine).
2. The global conflict is between the United States (they are the main beneficiaries and manipulators) and the Russian Federation, however, at the negotiating table on the delimitation of zones of influence (responsibility) between the United States and the Russian Federation - no one is sitting and not going to sit ...
All this is due to the fact that the United States does not consider the Russian Federation to be either economically strong or entitled to indicate to the States, since the Russian Federation is perceived by America as the losing side in the 20 century of the Cold War, and accordingly, there is no question of any authority of the Russian Federation for USA itself. They don’t agree with the losers, they have been tearing the skin from them (i.e., from us!) For 24 of the year already ...
Therefore, all attempts to agree on a "peace" will always be discredited by the United States and its puppets (the list of them is huge)
But the other side of the conflict - the Russian Federation behaves as if the entire USSR with all its power and authority stands behind it. RF in every possible way runs into rudeness (conflict), not having ANYTHING behind its back! Except for the liberal team of thieves and effective managers who destroyed the legacy of the USSR and filled their pockets at our expense. The economy was "lowered below the plinth" by robbing the people once again:

* - Labor savings from 1986 to 1998 were simply reset in the 1998 year.
* - Then the same trick in a milder version was done in 2008.
* - Now my salary and the majority of Russians have been reduced at least by a factor of (the salary has certainly remained, but its purchasing power has decreased significantly - by 2 times).
* - The majority of Russians have already stolen the funded part of the pension with seniority with 1986 twice.

,
Social programs are reduced from year to year, but they build new tanks and planes for the saved money, which of course are needed, but what kind of thing is emerging here - for whom and for what interests do we have to fight ?! For the oligarchs? For the "medveputa" who has just now matured to the thought that EVERYTHING in our country was done and built wrong and now everything needs to be redone AGAIN at the national expense ?! Moreover, no one will answer for mistakes ... again!
In the Second World War, the people of the USSR knew why they were going to die - for their own country, but now we don’t even have an idea ... The country has been privatized, but the interests of the ruling authorities and the rich have remained ... Popular interests are not even discussed, since deputies have long been representing interests of their sponsors.

[-Barbarian-]

3. All parties to the Conflict - prefer to show ONLY their point of view without taking into account the interests of other countries, respectively, in every way they convince their population with frank propaganda. Thus, the world is divided into "friends and foes", and this is the main task in preparing the population for war, where everyone must know who the enemy is and who to shoot at. And this is not a "peaceful foundation." Therefore, cast aside your hopes for a possible peace, all countries are preparing for the Slaughter, since it is beneficial to almost all parties.
The West (which is actually bankrupt today) is writing off all debts, arranging Armageddon in Europe, Asia and Africa, while it will wait overseas or on the islands to come in the role of a savior and once again cash in on the grief and blood of the warring nations. China will share the no-man's thing on the sly, India and Pakistan will burn their lands to the ground. Africa - will burn like a torch (there are many sides and interests), Europe millet will die out, as they have become so "civilized" that they cannot really defend themselves, Russia will die out by half, since the bulk of the population lives in megacities and they will suffer first. Moreover, this will be beneficial to the surviving Moscow authorities (since this is only one city under a continuous umbrella of air defense), because the effectiveness of their management is not designed for the large current population of the Russian Federation - well, the government cannot cope even now! Plus, a gorgeous opportunity will open up to become kings in their destinies.
Of course, I am not a prophet, but such a scenario is not out of the question, as they are always making fires of hatred throughout the Earth.
4. If we take into account all of the above, then the situation that develops on the diplomatic front becomes clear. Where the thin diplomacy of the Russian Federation stumbles upon a stupid misunderstanding and rejection of the Russian position by the United States. They simply do not need it, and our diplomats will not understand it in any way.
As an example, I give the principles of "their" diplomacy:

The basic principles of war propaganda were outlined by the British diplomat Lord Ponsonby in Lies in War (1928):
1) We do not want war
The main thing is to convince people that the “bad guys” hate “us” and have already begun (or are ready to start) first.
2) The war is waged only through the fault of the enemy
These are “others”, “they” started the war, or dream of starting it any day. "We" are forced to defend themselves.
3) The leader of the warring country is a real devil
It’s not necessary to make all the people hate, ”wrote Ponsonby. - It is necessary to personify the image of the enemy, to show your population that the head, the leader of the “others” is a mentally ill, crazy, corrupt person.
4) We fight for a just cause, not for our interests
It should be kept silent that in every war economic goals are primarily pursued, emphasizing only humanitarian reasons.
5) The enemy deliberately commits atrocities, we are only by chance
It is necessary as quickly as possible to disseminate information about the atrocities committed by the enemy, explaining that such actions are peculiar to him.
6) The enemy uses forbidden weapons
7) Our losses are negligible, the losses of the enemy are huge
During the war, losses in manpower and equipment are called not actual, but guided by their own benefit.
8. Representatives of culture, art and intellectuals support our cause
9) Our mission is sacred
10) Anyone who doubts our propaganda is a traitor.

As you can see, modern media in many countries around the world actively follow the principles developed almost 100 years ago.

[lidiy]

Largely agree with Barbarian. It is strange to hear on TV how we angrily denounce this nasty west and at the same time allow the NATO inspectors to check our military units. Many of you know that under the 2011 contract they regularly inspect our units. At the end of January we were in Samara. And in February last year, an agreement was signed under which NATO planes fly through our territory to Afghanistan. A few days ago, this agreement was extended to 2015. It will turn out strange if weapons from Afghanistan are delivered to Ukraine through our territory. And at the same time, it costs our planes to appear in the international space and all the NATO countries raise their planes for interception. We must sit at home and not show our nose. But Putin back in 2007 made a famous Munich speech, how to explain these treaties?

[zzz]

Quote: -Barbar-

I, of course, can understand you, especially your hope for the strategic genius of the "great Pu", because only in this case some "light at the end of the tunnel" can await you. However, the real situation is far from your hopes.
1. Immediate Conflict is taking place inside Ukraine and the warring parties, especially the "republicans" and civilians, will not agree to live in the same house with their killers. De facto, these are already strangers.

-Barvar-, you can’t even imagine HOW I understand this ... Nobody is going to live with them in the same country ...

[-Barbarian-]

And since no one is going to live, then tell me why this "four" has the right to tell the "Republicans" how to act and where to go?
If Putin would be consistent in his actions, as in his words “Russia will protect Russians in any territory” ... (which gave the people of the republics great hope), and then quietly “closed” this topic after negotiations with the Swiss leader (apparently the one with which - that greatly frightened our "strategist") - then the situation would be like with Crimea (they voted, the Russian Federation would instantly recognize the republics, peacekeeping troops quickly entered, and everyone would quietly shut their mouths). And this would be so only for one reason - a strong position of the Russian Federation would appear on the board from which one could build on in any negotiations, justifying their actions as opposing Nazism, which again raises its head on the territory adjacent to the Russian Federation, and being invited by the legitimate President Yanukovych. And everything would be according to the law. And instead, having initially brewed porridge with Crimea (which could not be taken away, because this is a challenge to all states that do not want to put up with such "requests" from their oppositions, risking their territories leaving them - for nothing) - the leadership of the Russian Federation Russia was unable to oppose anything except diplomatic demarches and indistinct bleating. And this "mutton" position of the authorities has led to the fact that day after day, civilians are dying - compatriots, as "strategist Pu" said.
Knowingly they say: "said A, speak also B." And we see the constant dancing of the authorities, which are not going to recognize the new republics. And this fact is a red rag for the West - since the Russians are "afraid", then let's finish them off. So they pushed it to the point where our government advises the citizens of the Russian Federation to tighten their belts, explaining this by the fact that "overseas monsters" offend us, so the economy is falling down.
And now the situation is as follows: From morning to evening, TV channels are packed with news about Ukraine, which means that the focus of attention has been transferred from their problems (in the Russian economy) abroad ... BUT this is not a solution to Russian problems, is it ?! This is simply beneficial to the authorities, since attention is not directed to the authorities of the Russian Federation to correct their own mistakes in managing the economy and the country. But we have before our eyes a "bloodbath", which is unfolding right before our eyes - and "people hawala it" (forgive the jargon).
People who see the problems facing the Russian Federation directly shout to the authorities: "Stop, you madmen, before it's too late, otherwise the Russian boat will sink," but no one hears them, and those whom they hear are quietly hushed up, continuing to stuff the people with propaganda.
Hence another question arises: "Why did the Russian Federation decide that it has the right to decide for others, since it itself did not" fit in "for its compatriots, thereby allowing war?" I don't even remember the rest of the characters in this drama.
The ancients said: "The evil you have done will certainly return to you." It remains only to wait until something like this will already be in Russia, but others will already disentangle it, suffering for the stupidity of the current "elite". The evil has already been released, but NOBODY is going to correct the error. Neither here nor abroad. Because it is beneficial to all parties, except for the "Republicans". And no memoranda will close the Conflict, and all sane people understand this. However, we see only a SHOW with a set of pre-election balls "for trying to prevent further victims" ... And this show will not solve the problem, the name of which is War!

[Cynic]

Quote: -Barbar-

This begs the question

Natural question and even desire, open the flag of the host country, multi-wise You are our _

[-Barbarian-]

Oh, what a meeting, laconic you are ours! I was born in the USSR, more precisely the Ukrainian SSR, Voroshilovgrad region, now I live in the Russian Federation.
Tell me, Cynic, you needed this information in order to answer a question (at least express your position) or in order to write a post again, score a point ... and wasting someone else's time ?!
I would understand your efforts and questions, if you would oppose me ... And you, as usual ... "shot into milk"
Better find yourself a like-minded colleague and practice wit with him.
I have the honor.

[Cynic]

Quote: -Barbar-

Oh, what a meeting, laconic you are ours!

Meeting place can not be Changed .

Quote: -Barbar-

you needed this information in order to answer the question

Yes.

Quote: -Barbar-

I would understand your efforts and questions, if you would oppose me ... And you, as usual ... "shot into milk"

This is not given to you, to understand others, but as usual you utter absolute truths, forgetting that it is absolute only in your mind, you are our verbose accusatory-revealing one.
Sorry, but it seems that you are accustomed only to verbal battles, when the opponent can be overwhelmed with words and supposedly arguments.
The printed text is a little different; it lends itself to analysis and reflection.
So _

Quote: -Barbar-

the situation would be like with Crimea (they would vote, the Russian Federation would instantly recognize the republics, peacekeeping troops would quickly come in, and everyone would quietly shut up their mouths)

And then, well, no one will not understand, sir!

Quote: -Barbar-

Knowingly they say: "said A, speak also B."

And to whom was this B promised? As far as I remember, on the contrary, it was said DO NOT HURRY.

Quote: -Barbar-

And now the situation is as follows: From morning till night, the TV channels are full of news about Ukraine, which means that the center of attention has been transferred from its problems (in the Russian economy) abroad ..

Hmm, do you really live in Russia? And it turns out that we watch different TVs, but I agree, news channels and news releases of the main channels quite often cover events in Novorossiya and Urkain, but to say that television is clogged with this is to sin against the truth. On the contrary, it is often heard that they say little about it.
...
An intelligent rotten draws from all your words.

Quote: -Barbar-

Better find yourself a like-minded colleague and practice wit with him.

It is possible on cats _

Quote: -Barbar-

I have the honor.

In the sense that you and others like you talk about the Constitution among themselves, etc. ?

[-Barbarian-]

(Start)
I read your "review" and ... was not at all surprised. You again showed another intellectual idle talk from the category - "about nothing."

Quote: Cynic

This is not given to you, to understand others, you, as usual, utter absolute truths ...

If you are still sure that no one will understand you, then you have too high self-esteem, "exceptional" you are ours - this is the first thing.
Second. I have to tell you that in my comments I am doing OWN analysis of events. And it is based on many points of view, in contrast to your ideas based on watching TV and the conclusions that are imposed on us all. Moreover, the "other" opinion on our (RF) channels is trying in every possible way to "crush". Therefore, your "barbs" about my supposedly "absolute truths" - only confirm the fact that you are used to seeing ONLY one side of the events taking place. Refusing to me and "like me", as you "intellectuals" expressed, tell a different point of view from yours.
And if you do not like my vision of the situation, then, as they say in Odessa: "these are only your difficulties."

Quote: Cynic

... you are accustomed only to verbal battles when your opponent can be overwhelmed with words and supposedly arguments ...

The cynic, to your disappointment, is forced to remind you that here we are only doing what we are fighting in "verbal battles", proving to each other our idea of ​​what is happening. And you, apparently, forget about it and project your subconscious fears, presenting our communication in the form of some kind of "real battle battles", where people "like me", instead of a verbal answer, want to "clean up the face". As Churchill said: "When both sides run out of arguments, bombs start rattling." To paraphrase this maxim, we can say about you that since you are ready to reject the solution to the issue in words, then you are out of arguments. And this is unfortunate. This only convinces me of the conclusions made earlier about you - you need to learn to control yourself, otherwise from the outside you seem a little inadequate.
About my text and its "comprehension:
When reading a text, a cynic, learn to see what is written there, and not just what you want ...
If you exert yourself and remember the chronology of events, then you will see what Putin has said and done since March 14.
At first it was like this: “Russia reserves the right to protect the interests of the Russian-speaking population in the east and south of Ukraine, if the residents of the region are in real danger,” President Putin said in a telephone conversation with his American counterpart Barack Obama, Lifenews reports. Martha.
Then, at a March 4 press conference, Putin said about the events in Ukraine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMuYucxqiJg and then:
16 March 2014 - On the basis of the Declaration of Independence and the results of the referendum, the Republic of Crimea was proclaimed as an independent and sovereign state.
On March 17, the Crimean Parliament expeditedly prepared a draft international treaty on accession to the Russian Federation
17 March 2014 - Decree on the recognition of the Republic of Crimea by the Russian Federation was signed
On March 18, an international agreement was signed on the adoption of Crimea and Sevastopol as part of Russia.
19 March 2014 - A draft federal constitutional law on the adoption of the Republic of Crimea to the Russian Federation has been submitted to the State Duma.
21 March 2014 - Laws were signed on the adoption of Crimea and Sevastopol as part of Russia.
All this was in the Crimea, and now it is comparable with the Donbass.

[-Barbarian-]

During these "epically fast" events on the part of the Russian Federation, Putin said on March 18, 2014: "I will say that Russia will always protect the interests of Russian citizens in Ukraine."
And on June 24, on June 2014, Putin said that the repeal of the Federation Council’s decree on the use of force in Ukraine does not mean that Russia will abandon ethnic Russians living on Ukrainian territory.
After these words and events in June, Slavyansk began and its defense by militias ... Many people sincerely believed what Putin said and what was promised to the insurgent Novorossia ... But! Somehow everything went wrong ... Not with help, not with support. The war is still going on and shots do not subside. And what about Putin? Where is the protection of compatriots? where is the recognition of the referendum (even if he asked "not to rush, this does not in any way nullify the Opinion of the people of Donbass, which must be respected like the opinion of the people of Crimea, does it not)? Where is the recognition of the republics? Come on ... even his appointees - the current leaders of the "republicans" do not even recognize them, because according to the conditions of Minsk-2, both they and the "republicans" need to reaffirm their past decision by elections, although taking into account refugees, war, hunger, lack of medical, social, and other help - the number of people in Donbass has decreased by half ...
This is the kind of support for compatriots, so to speak "from the master's shoulder."
That is why I wrote: "said A, speak also B" - i.e. If Putin did in Donbass as with Crimea (even without being admitted to Russia, since this was out of the question at the referendum) - there would not be so much blood and devastation.
And about

Quote: Cynic

And then, well, no one will not understand, sir!

My dear fellow, re-read my commentary again, it says: "And instead, having brewed initially porridge with Crimea, which could not be taken away, because this is a challenge to all states that do not want to put up with such" requests "from their oppositions, risking that so that their territories would leave them - for no reason ... "For you, I will translate - they would not do this with Crimea - they would not have so much hatred from the West, which was provoked by the actions of our" strategist ", not to mention the economic problems that we have for today (polls say that the Russians pose the greatest threat to the local population). You will of course say that they are all zombified by the media (and I agree), BUT this is the Opinion of the people ... well, the same ... as in the Crimea. And not accepting it is a mistake.
It is clear that you cannot change history, but the "strategist" is obliged to bring his words and deeds to the end, and he is whirling and stirring up the situation. And this does not cause me any patriotic or any positive feelings. And if you think that the leader of the people should change his decisions "at the crossing", then with such a management, our large and so far united country, there is little time left.

[-Barbarian-]

- Regarding TV - I think that it’s already clear - you watch, but don’t see ... there are no problems in the economy, no devastation in all sectors of the Russian economy ... Well, that’s understandable - they don’t show it there! Therefore, you do not know. I can advise - take care to increase your horizons, otherwise your blinders will put pressure on your eyes and limit your perception of the world.
Quote: Cynic
Barbarian I have the honor.
In the sense that you and others like you talk to each other about the Constitution, etc. ?

Whoa! Yes, you, my dear, are not only a vulgar, but also a confusion (for you the translation is husband. (Colloquial neod.) A person who does not know how to correctly understand some issue, confusing himself and others). If you interfere with both insults and the Constitution (of which, by the way, there was no talk at all), then the conclusion about you, alas, wants to be the best. Do not climb "with a pig's snout in the Kalashny row" (quote from the classic) - do not show your bad upbringing, as this casts a shadow on your entire environment.
PS It is a pity that having managed to "grow" to the marshal's shoulder straps, the filling turned out to be, as you put it, rotten (apparently a Freudian slip). On closer examination, you have shown yourself to be an ill-mannered individual with a very limited outlook. I have nothing more to talk about with you.
I have the honor.

[Cynic]

Hmm, what a variety of arguments, allegories, allusions, that's just a small hitch, you say _

Quote: -Barbar-

presenting our communication in the form of some kind of "real battle battles", where people "like me", instead of a verbal answer, want to "clean up the face".

So, by definition, I don’t understand this, would I only have to clean the faces?
So for whom is all of these coloring ?
Do you practice narcissism?
Yes, even

Quote: -Barbar-

you look, but you don’t see ... no problems in the economy, no disruption in all sectors of the Russian economy ... Well, that’s understandable - they don’t show IT there!

Not the first time I met such statements, on various occasions, I never cease to be surprised at the people who express them _ Do you and others like you think that aliens are trying to open their eyes? Aw, we are here nearby and sometimes we live ... oh, worse than you, and you are trying to open our eyes ?!

Quote: -Barbar-

I have nothing more to talk about with you.

Purely rhetorically, for the future _ Do not tell others what they think, then they won’t tell you out loud what they think about you.

[lidiy]

You are probably on the site recently. The flag says absolutely nothing. I changed to American and, despite my complaints from the site administration, it hangs.

[vityanya.68]

ZZZ Beautiful, Healthy and Essentially said! I fully agree !!!

[larand]

Quote: drop1

However, it seems merged Novorossia ...

It is not clear yet about "leaked". The coming week will show.
What and who received after the Minsk agreement? The German woman, the franc and the dill were leaving together in an aura of peacekeepers. The German woman believes that she showed everyone that Putin is not as firm and decisive as everyone thinks. Frank thinks he has earned points for his ranking. Waltzman is generally convinced that he defeated both Putin and the separatists - he saved his group from defeat, he will receive 20 lard from the West and another respite for new battles. In six months, he hopes to re-arm himself with this money, continuing the "safari" in the Donbass, create real detachments of trained attack aircraft with the help of amers and finally crush the militia. However, if the West pays such an impressive "bonus" for the murder of several thousand Russians in Donbass, then how much will it promise Waltzman for the murder of Russians in the Russian Federation?
What did Putin get? The promise is either to soften, or to tighten sanctions.
New Russia was forced to sign an agreement that did not suit her and was deprived of the opportunity to destroy a large group of killers.
Here are the summary results. Yes, Lavrov was talking about some kind of "super", but what it is and who has it - a mystery.

[saag]

Quote: larand

What did Putin get? The promise is either to soften, or to tighten sanctions.

Well, it works in this direction, because it has not grown together with import substitution, strained with drugs, with equipment both for oil and gas (and this can be said to be the Russian Federation’s administration) and for the defense industry as well, work is underway to lift sanctions, at least for certain positions

[twviewer]

Quote: saag

for with import substitution did not grow together

I would say it didn’t start with import substitution, because once it starts, it will kill monopolists, govnobanki and other sucking state husks, it will take away unjustified income, so to speak. And in the appropriation of these revenues and the entire current carousel.

[U-47]

Quote: twviewer

for once it begins, it will kill ... govnobanki

this is how it will kill the banks in which it will be credited? Or are external loans already allowed?

[twviewer]

Quote: U-47

this is how it will kill the banks in which it will be credited? Or are external loans already allowed?

why does the state need commercial banks to build entire industries? enough development bank
private traders can’t build entire industries in any way.

[DRA-88]

Quote: larand

It is not clear yet about "leaked". The coming week will show.

Rescue operation to preserve the parachute took place!
Get out of the cauldron, and the parashka, right on the outskirts, send the "meat" for slaughter, shoot children, women, old people!
What do not you understand ?!

[Gagauz]

Do you think these agreements are printed on paper and published on websites? Or was Merkel’s voyage all over the planet needed for these two useless sheets of text? Have you ever heard from Lavrov the word SUPER after negotiations? And your delegation was in a good mood after the negotiations. Do not believe the pieces of paper - look at business.

[VAF]

Quote: Gagauz

Do not believe the pieces of paper - look at business.

Why watch and where to watch? Media + TV and there .. everything is clear .. "to tears" .. just "flew" again to Donetsk and Lugansk, until zero on the 15th shelling will continue. No amnesty for the leaders of the militia.separate areas of REGIONS Lugansk and Donetsk (I call it a reservation) etc. etc.
I don’t take barges and sanctions in general, because everything is clear there.
Why is it having fun?
Or "make a good face when playing bad"?

[Botanologist]

Quote: vaf

Or "make a good face when playing bad"?

Greetings, dear .
As always, with a saber. I hold a different point of view, since I proceed only from the fact that Ukraine, the LPR and the DPR are not at all a basic interest either for the United States with Europe or for Russia.
They kill people, everything is clear, and here the assessment is unequivocal - the killers are on trial. But ISIS doesn’t hurt your head like that, and especially no one is soared, the forums do not cut to death. Why? Yes, because Ukraine is painful, it’s practically us. And Iraq doesn’t really soar us, or rather, it has already evaporated, we ourselves won’t figure out who needs what there.
And from the point of view of world players, there is no difference between Ukraine, LPR, DPR, Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, Zimbabwe. And from the point of view of Russia's strategic interests, it is much more profitable to have an enclave like the DPR in Ukraine, which by the very fact of its existence will keep Ukraine in suspense no worse than a leash. This makes it possible to bring Crimea to the background, constantly push European politicians against each other, bargain over sanctions, show Kiev a "goat" whenever we want, and also have a topic for trade with America.
I well understand that my cynicism can cause negativity, and a reason to accuse me of not giving a damn about brothers and sisters. No, don't give a damn. Half of my relatives are in Ukraine. But I am speaking from the point of view of geopolitics, where peoples are a resource, and nothing more. This is a decision-making format - a "bridgehead", "zone of interests", "level of influence", "opportunities for the development of initiatives", etc.
Therefore, from this point of view, the poher that they signed there. The main thing is that the DPR and LPR have begun to recognize the subject of problems, they are ready to provide them with some kind of concessions there, and most importantly, we are with Europe like peace. That is, we formally start talking about friendship and the restoration of relations. EVERYTHING. The rest is lyrics, although (I wrote above) and it is in our favor.

[Cynic]

Quote: larand

and deprived of the opportunity to destroy a large group of killers.

And with what hangover did you decide that it was a reality, not your dreams?

[base66]

USSR merged Novorossia merge and merge Russia

[Lucigenius.]

Fuck you! everything will be fine! do not merge ...

[Dry_T-50]

Quote: drop1

Quote: Letun

In general, I do not see any advantages other than a ceasefire (which will not be respected) from this agreement.

However, it seems merged Novorossia ...

I noticed an interesting thing: on sites where both Russians and Ukrainians are, Russians say that HP styles, and Ukrainians "calm down" them, saying that they did not merge

[shtanko.49]

So many people died for the independence of Novorossia and Putin merged everyone, never expected such a thing from him. Everything fell into place, the raven will not peal out the raven’s eye, the head of the bourgeois state will not defend the rights of the People’s Republics.

[duke]

However, it seems leaked New Russia ... [/ quote]

I don’t think it was leaked, it is clear that the “document” is about nothing, but it was signed to show the Western public that it is possible to agree with Russia (although we are not a party to the conflict) and the DPR / LPR, that we are negotiable, but when the Giblets once again violate everything and everyone, then there will be an iron reason to say, guys, what a speech, we keep that word, but your protege Giblets have done it again ... why should they subject us to sanctions? It is clear that nothing will change, the Americans have not yet said their word, now they will begin to supply weapons and Giblets will itch their hands. Usual geopolitical toys + respite, though not in our favor ...

[duke]

Russian political scientist Yegor Kholmogorov commented on the results of the Minsk agreements and the peace plan.

"1. No discharge of New Russia is there at all. The agreement is a reprint of September, that is, unfeasible nonsense. All remain at their own (shelling, alas, too).

2. The assertion that the republics are recognized by Russia as part of Ukraine is a lie. Russia has never contested membership officially. And unofficially, Putin again spoke about the Donetsk and Lugansk Republics.

3. “Now Putin has signed.” Lying. Putin has not signed anything. A third-party contact group has signed. The communiqué of the powers is not subscribed.

4. The most important fact around which events will dance is the Unrecognized boiler. Poroshenko lied that there was no boiler. Therefore, the Armed Forces of Ukraine will throw masses of equipment and infantry into the attack, and there will actually be a meat grinder on the jumper, which is likely to frustrate the whole truce.

5. The most alarming signal is that part of the Russian media repeated Semenchenko’s lie about boiler release. That is, a 5–6 convoy is ready to merge for the sake of friendship with Poroshenko all the successes of the militias.

6. The EU will try, under the pretext of Minsk, to soften relations with the Russian Federation. Most likely the United States will not give them this. Even Mistral will not be given back. But it seems that Poroshenko completely discredits himself in the eyes of the EU. ”

[yiono47]

and what allland actually came to and Merkel put loops on their neck and gave the ends to the piston because they are the guarantors of his actions and Putin’s role to talk to the militia what they did and didn’t happen at all, just closed everything on the behavior of the Ukrainian army and not even powder

[Silhouette]

I am still at a loss.
Why did Russia allow a losing format of negotiations "three against one" in Minsk? In fact, negotiations were conducted by two parties - Russia and Ukraine with Germany and France.
Why did Russia thereby become a party to the conflict?
Complete loss to Russia at the diplomatic level. Diplomacy only harms the Russian interests and the interests of the rebels, which were not even allowed to the negotiation table.

[Boris55]

Quote: Silhouette

Why did Russia allow a losing format of negotiations "three against one" in Minsk? In fact, negotiations were conducted by two parties - Russia and Ukraine with Germany and France.
Why did Russia thereby become a party to the conflict?
Complete loss to Russia at the diplomatic level. Diplomacy only harms the Russian interests and the interests of the rebels, which were not even allowed to the negotiation table.

There is no loss to Russia! It was Europe that came running to us, not us to them! Europe, trying to isolate and strangle us with sanctions, cannot live without us. As they say, the fact is on the face. This is Putin's victory.

Guess who's the boss? Poroshenko on the edge of the chair, Merkel and Olond look in Putin’s mouth ...

You claim that thereby Russia became a party to the conflict? Does this mean that Germany and France have also become parties to the conflict? Do you seriously think that Russia is at war with Europe?

For your information: Any military units in any country are subject to political authority. From which it follows that the start of hostilities and their cessation of politics.

If as a result of these negotiations at least one human life is saved, it means they were not in vain!

[ROD VDVshny]

Quote: Boris55

Nor is there any loss to Russia!

Yes, there is no loss ... not without reason Offal during the negotiations said that there is no good news
-tried to push through the closure of the border and transfer it to the "care" of the kaklam and OSCE officials - a bummer.
The "President of the World" would immediately set up a small Gestapo on the site of Novorossiya ... otherwise everything is the same, from the military to the north wind.
- cease-fire guarantees are issued by "initiators" - the fuhlerfrau and the paddling pool. Now Giblets are deprived of the opportunity to "lace up ankle boots and beat in the teeth one time" - no way.
-Our President with all thoughts and deeds is completely positive
- I could understand that all this nonsense would spill over into a declaration of intent.

[Ivanovanych]

Rather it was

[zenith]

Merkel and Olond look in Putin's mouth ...
Yes, the constellation is cool, etiquette with meaning. There are 2 armchairs, 1 sofa and 1 chair. This sweet couple immediately on the sofa, and so look honestly like schoolchildren on it, Poroshenko is on the edge, as it should be - a hut from the edge. And BB on a hard chair, so judge for yourself. Nothing happens just like that. Merkel and Hollande it is clear that we arrived, raise their ratings below the baseboard raise. Already someone just did not look askance at them in their countries. Yes, to show that we are not puppets, but independent individuals — that’s already what the Obama scenario looks like, they’ll be in ruin everywhere today, the confusion will begin in the EU tomorrow, the ratings of regional leaders must be rehabilitated. I think they know better who the first with NATO will jump out at the steering wheel with Russia. Turkey for a gas club is not something that the EU and NATO are probably across the throat, Greece, too, I think is not their ally, Hungary, Austria, Italy is a big question. Their specific allies until then did not receive zvizduli? This mongrel from the Baltic states, Poland, and even a couple offended. In short, those who stink the loudest. It only seems to me or to others that if you have the most withered country, you are a complete sucker, a loser and a loser, but for a career you only need to yelp at an elephant (sorry bear) RUSSIA, as you will be noticed right there, you’ll be dressed up and you’ll not suction, even if you have fun. What do you think compatriots?

[zenith]

Merkel and Olond look in Putin's mouth ...
Yes, the constellation is cool, etiquette with meaning. There are 2 armchairs, 1 sofa and 1 chair. This sweet couple immediately on the sofa, and so look honestly like schoolchildren on it, Poroshenko is on the edge, as it should be - a hut from the edge. And BB on a hard chair, so judge for yourself. Nothing happens just like that. Merkel and Hollande it is clear that we arrived, raise their ratings below the baseboard raise. Already someone just did not look askance at them in their countries. Yes, to show that we are not puppets, but independent individuals — that’s already what the Obama scenario looks like, they’ll be in ruin everywhere today, the confusion will begin in the EU tomorrow, the ratings of regional leaders must be rehabilitated. I think they know better who the first with NATO will jump out at the steering wheel with Russia. Turkey for a gas club is not something that the EU and NATO are probably across the throat, Greece, too, I think is not their ally, Hungary, Austria, Italy is a big question. Their specific allies until then did not receive zvizduli? This mongrel from the Baltic states, Poland, and even a couple offended. In short, those who stink the loudest. It only seems to me or to others that if you have the most withered country, you are a complete sucker, a loser and a loser, but for a career you only need to yelp at an elephant (sorry bear) RUSSIA, as you will be noticed right there, you’ll be dressed up and you’ll not suction, even if you have fun. What do you think compatriots?

[Lucigenius.]

Everything is normal ... Why are there many "allies" in the negotiations? While the "allies" are trying to build a unified position, bargain with each other for better conditions for themselves, etc., Putin says only what he needs. We were in the negotiations on the rights of Merkel and Hollande, as a party with influence on the militias, and not as a direct participant in the conflict.
Nobody has ever allowed unrecognized authorities to the negotiating table of such a level. They spoke at the contact group level. So everything is fine here.
Plus, the conversation itself took place on the territory allied to us. Lukashenko whist earned in Europe, which also can not but rejoice. He has his own task in this big political game.

[zzz]

Quote: Silhouette

I am still at a loss.

Better and farther away.

[Dangerous]

Dadad, blablabla, Putin caved in, Putin passed Novorossia, etc. ... And what did he have to sign ?? First, they and Lavrov initially said that they recognize the integrity of Ukraine and Lugansk and Donbass will be in Ukraine. Secondly, the main task now for everyone is a ceasefire. It’s fun sitting at the computer to read how many tanks they burned and put down the Natsiks, and civilians, especially those who are now in the midst of the confrontation, are not laughing at all. Yesterday was a man, today is a homeless person, they don’t think about them here? Thirdly, the militia at least writes about double-digit casualties for ukrov daily, also not omnipotently. Look, Zakharchenko even went to extreme mobilization measures, and the offensive near Lugansk and Mariupol got stuck. So let them stop firing first, and then, as Lavrov said, they agree directly between themselves

[Silhouette]

Putin should not have traveled to Minsk at all. That would be the most correct. Minsk will not stop the war. And will not save anyone. Do not be mistaken. Nobody will stop shooting.

[Corsair]

Quote: Silhouette

Putin should not have traveled to Minsk at all. That would be the most correct. Minsk will not stop the war. And will not save anyone. Do not be mistaken. Nobody will stop shooting

Most likely it will not stop, but there is already an official signature on the document, which means that Poroshenko will be crushed by Merkel and Oland for their part, although of course even believing the signatures of EU official representatives is worthless. But here they have big risks of losing prestige.

[Reducer]

Quote: Silhouette

Putin should not have traveled to Minsk at all. That would be the most correct. Minsk will not stop the war. And will not save anyone. Do not be mistaken. Nobody will stop shooting.

Calm, Silhouette. What kind of tantrums? Partenit is already ours.

[zzz]

Quote: Dangerous

Dadad, blablabla, Putin caved in, Putin passed Novorossia and so on ...

Yes, and Lyashko confirms this: the people's deputy Lyashko accused Poroshenko of betrayal, and Obama - of cowardice

The leader of the Radical Party, the scandalous deputy of the Verkhovna Rada Oleg Lyashko criticized the negotiations in Minsk and the agreements reached by the leaders of the EU, Russia and Ukraine.

According to a statement by Oleg Lyashko, which he posted on his Facebook page, Ukraine only lost on the new “package of measures” adopted following the Minsk-2 talks, and Ukrainian President Petro Poroshenko exceeded his authority.

“President Poroshenko did not have the authority to bid the issue of the constitutional order of the country, since he is in the exclusive competence of the parliament and people of Ukraine. Moreover, the president violated the boundaries of international negotiations established by the parliament on my initiative in April last year in order to prevent any attempts of an external dictate on issues related exclusively to internal competence, ”Lyashko said.

In addition, the leader of the Radical Party criticized the positions of Western leaders, in particular, US President Barack Obama.

“I think many in Europe are ready to sacrifice Ukraine for the economic benefit of their countries. So US President Obama gladly took the opportunity to hide behind Chancellor Merkel’s female back and not too powerful figure of President Hollande to avoid the difficult decision for him to supply defensive weapons to Ukraine. I hope that our friends in America, whose circle and influence is growing every day, will convey to Mr. Obama the simple truth that such ostrich behavior is not worthy of a man, and even more so the head of state - a world leader, ”

- notes Lyashko.

At the same time, Lyashko did not specify what kind of “American friends” he was talking about, and what is the degree of influence of these personalities on the US leadership.

“Therefore, my conclusion: Minsk-2 is already a bitten off hand. Let’s bite off our head? The answer depends primarily on ourselves, ”concludes the people's deputy.

[uhu189]

There is nothing fun in the burned tanks, as well as in the death of the Russians on both sides of the front. Putin had to do only one thing - not to allow the situation so that such meetings were generally necessary. And do not wait for a million refugees, 50 thousand dead on both sides, a crisis in the Russian economy. Is this your activity as a great leader? When is he forced to react to a situation? And not even trying to act in advance. And as if we were not mocking at Psaki, Obama and the USA, but they are ahead of the curve after the Crimea. And we stupidly miss the time and exchange it for the lives of those who believed in the help of Russia and the Russian world. You can certainly argue that we don’t know anything, that we don’t understand and there is a plan or plans of varying degrees of cunning, but in fact for the year except Crimea in which we were able to replay the west? Can you name anything? I do not see them. Practice is the criterion of truth.

[ddd1975]

... I must admit that these negotiations, like all the latter with the west, are rotten. Definitely, they will wait for the warming and arms supplies of the USA and then caput of Novorosia or hello war in Europe ...

[Ascetic]

Quote: Letun

In general, I do not see any advantages other than a ceasefire (which will not be respected) from this agreement. The West is putting pressure on Russia, and unfortunately it is becoming obvious that it is pushing successfully.

It is rather a temporary truce, which will create an operational pause in hostilities before the spring campaign, for which the parties will begin to prepare after a possible ceasefire. There is a Russian proverb, chickens in the fall count. And the fact that they are crushing and will crush is certain. Already today, Merkel after the EU meeting announced the expansion of sanctions

Speaking to reporters in Brussels, she said that the EU sanctions against 19 individuals and 9 legal entities, including from Russia, will enter into force, as planned, on February 16, despite new Minsk agreements.

link

She is echoed by Hollande

French President Francois Hollande believes that the conditions for the transfer of the first Mistral-class helicopter carrier to Russia are still not met.
"The conditions are still not formed. I hope that one day they will be met," Hollande said at a press conference in Brussels.

link

so the struggle goes on and there can be no talk of any discharge or surrender.
In general, there are two options
1.Actual junta's refusal of agreement due to its unacceptability
2. Replacing the traitor and agent Putin Poroshenko with a true patriot
as if he couldn’t cope with the general line of the Washington Regional Committee for involving Russia in the conflict, for direct participants in the conflict are LDNR and Ukraine which, in fact, was what Lavrov sought at the diplomatic level, and about which Peskov constantly insisted when speaking about the Kremlin’s official position.

Lukashenko: Well, gentlemen, we are suffering here because of this stoned freak

[twviewer]

Quote: Ascetic

Lukashenko: Well, gentlemen, we are suffering here because of this stoned freak

five Stanislav, thank you amused

[zzz]

Quote: Ascetic

so the struggle goes on and there can be no talk of any discharge or surrender.

And do not forget that we have May 9 soon, and amid the hostilities to hold a parade, I don’t even know if this is good or bad?

[saag]

Quote: zzz

and amid the hostilities to hold a parade, I don’t even know if this is good or bad?

Actually, an interesting thing turns out - a parade dedicated to the 70th anniversary of the victory over fascism, and he lives in Ukraine

[Reducer]

Well, that’s the 71st anniversary to be held in Kiev.

[Reducer]

Good good! In the 41st held and in 2015 will hold.

[Dry_T-50]

It seems to me, or is Poroshenko holding a French flag?

[zzz]

Quote: Sukhoy_T-50

It seems to me, or is Poroshenko holding a French flag?

I don’t understand why they didn’t show anywhere that the dill flag in Minsk fell, which is behind the powder? SCHANDAL! But father fell out, probably ..)))))

[Ascetic]

Quote: zzz

I just didn’t understand why they didn’t show anywhere that the dill flag in Minsk fell, which is behind the powder? SCHANDAL! But father fell out, probably ..)))

On RT showed in the news and in Russia 24

[Loner_53]

Quote: zzz

I don’t understand why they didn’t show anywhere that the dill flag in Minsk fell, which is behind the powder? SCHANDAL! But father fell out, probably ..)))))

Old Man doesn’t scare such crap

[maxcor1974]

In my opinion, the conclusion of the Minsk agreements (which no one is going to comply with) can hardly be called our diplomatic victory. Most likely, the states and the EU will be the winners, which at the right time will once again be able to accuse Russia of insidious violation of the agreements after some provocation (the technology has been worked out). And Russia will again be under new sanctions, possibly in worse conditions than now.
The current situation is somewhat reminiscent of the Punic Wars: where in the role of Rome, the EU and the United States, and we are in the role of Carthage. Let me remind you that Carthage was destroyed as a result of repeated betrayal of the oligarchic government (in the form of diplomatic concessions to Rome after the 1st and 2nd Punic wars), which did not want to risk capital to continue the war even after Hannibal's military victories. And now, not funny thoughts come to my mind: what could Surkov persuade the leaders of New Russia for so long, who did not want to sign treacherous agreements for them? As far as I understand, he represents a group of "peacekeepers" among the president's entourage. So I don't know for sure, and if someone is more "in the subject" please express your opinion on this issue.

[Kite]

Quote: Letun

In general, no pluses other than a ceasefire (which will not be respected)

- But try to guess which phrase in the document is the main one, which at first is masked by the rest. All these words are not laws to control the action, but a demonstration of attempts to stop the ukrosamouicide on the edge of the abyss. It is useless to explain the consequences to him, but there is a chance to stop before the jump to understand the difficultly formulated (not understandable) sentence.
And let the tornadoes search to try to convict

[Alex]

Quote: Kite

And let the tornadoes search to try to convict

It seems that no one will even bother: they already "know everything" ...

[Kite]

Quote: Alex

........ and will not bother: they already "know everything" ...

- that's what we are talking about, with those who "know everything" to discuss the points of agreement is useless, they will still jump on the edge until they fall into the abyss. Let us calmly tell them in the trail: well, that's all!

[BM-13]

Quote: Kite

they will still ride on the edge until they fall into the abyss. Quietly tell them the next: well, that’s it!

Who seeks will always find. Who is glory, who is adventure on the fifth point.

[Gagauz]

Yes, no one will adhere to these agreements. Therefore, the points contradict each other. And the issues there were not resolved at all in Ukraine. Ukraine is just an excuse for everyone to solve the more pressing problems of both Russia and Europe

[SAXA.SHURA]

You know, there is a feeling that some kind of incomprehensible game is going on, as soon as the militia piles on these ukram, as right there, truce, negotiations and so on begin again. Why Putin does not react to such huge killings of civilians, he repeated many times in front of the cameras, "let them try", and that, not only try, but kill everyone indiscriminately. And we only in the person of Lavrov hear that we will rely on the common sense of our "partners" and nothing else. Yes, the whole WORLD should be good to scream and scare these Ukrainian bastards so that they would not have time for the war.

[berenika]

water wears away a drop of stone. do you want us to send our troops to Ukraine? they must deal with this themselves is their homeland. I have two sons, one officer, the second cadet. To fight for my country is one, and for the country where this was allowed Pordont's nightmare.

[efimich41]

I believe that Putin is absolutely confident that Kiev cannot fulfill the terms of the agreement on the peaceful settlement of hostilities in the Donbas, therefore, it agreed to the representatives of the DPR and LPR to sign this agreement. If it is violated, and no one doubts this, the war will continue, and Kiev will be responsible for this.

[kunstkammer]

responsibility for this will be for Kiev

Yes, who told you that this will be so? Again all the dogs will be hanged on the militias.

[Russian063]

I also shook hands with this ghoul.

[Timurabyi]

Do you somehow “argue apolitically, Mr. Dzhabrail!?” And I will say one more thing: if the West wanted to tear away from Yanukovych's Ukraine, for example, Western Ukraine, they would do it! We would have held elections (as we did in the Donbass), would have started repeating about the right of peoples to self-determination, democratic values, the independent and freedom-loving spirit of the Westerners, etc. And they would have been torn away, just like Kosovo, from Serbia. And there would be no talk about territorial integrity. "This is just your guess! Even if this were possible, Russia has something to answer to this! It's not even a matter of who and what is more, but in that NATO is getting closer and closer to the Russian borders!

[Kingfisher]

The actions of the Supreme Commander are not discussed, but executed.

[Normal]

Quote: Kingfisher

The actions of the Supreme Commander are not discussed, but executed

Orders Supreme Commander are executed, not activity.
The actions of one person cannot be performed by other persons at all, even if they are the actions of the Commander-in-Chief.
By the way, the President, in accordance with Article 87 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation, is the Supreme Commander ARMED FORCES Russian Federation, not the POPULATION.
For the peacetime population, Putin - President and his ACTION by civilians - DISCUSSED.

[Kingfisher]

I agree, thank you for the amendment. Emotions ...

[Normal]

Quote: Kingfisher

I agree, thank you for the amendment. Emotions ...

It happens.

[Cynic]

Quote: Normal

For the population in peacetime

As you well said, in peace.
Eh hehe, only where did you see peacetime?

[Normal]

Quote: Cynic

Eh hehe, only where did you see peacetime?

You know, the namesake ... in Russia, well, except for the places and time of the CTO.
If you have other information, then I ask you to give here the decrees of the President of the Russian Federation on the introduction of the MILITARY PROVISION, the beginning of the UNIVERSAL mobilization, the entry of Russia into the war or the declaration by the President of war of another state, a union of states, or even some political organization that uses to achieve its goals military or terrorist methods.
Even declaring war on Russia by other states will come down.
The main thing is that this should be an OFFICIAL document or at least an OFFICIAL DIPLOMATIC STATEMENT by the leaders of other states or persons authorized to do so. Sorry, I do not consider it otherwise possible to consider as evidence of the existence of war.
The President will announce the start of the war - I will consider him my Supreme Commander-in-Chief even without my personal appeal to the armed forces.
Not? So war is not. So I don’t have a Commander-in-Chief, but I have a President who ... we read the chapter 87 of the Constitution of the Russian Federation.
I am a civilian, I am not a member of the armed forces or law enforcement agencies and, therefore, I have every right to DISCUSS the actions of the authorities, which I also wish you.

[Cynic]

Quote: Normal

No? So war is not.

He could have laughed at the famous gopher, which is not visible, but it really is just fun, inappropriate here and now.
I can only say _

In reality, everything is not as it actually seems.

[Foxmara]

Read the analysis, motivation will become clearer. http://vk.com/tovsemenov?w=wall250425013_2664

[NordUral]

Donated to Donbass, why roll eggs. I am ashamed!

[kunstkammer]

West presses on Russia

these are Russian fat cats put pressure on Putin.
They are afraid of losing the loot in Western banks and their estates in the same place.
And Putin .. and what is Putin?
He "his" with their dough does not hand over.
So everything is "better than super!" as Lavrov said.
He didn’t tell us, he informed his billionaires.

[Yars]

Putin did not pull up troops to violate the integrity of Ukraine. I pulled it in order to cool the hot heads in Kiev that are ruled from outside. And the West will tear off western Ukraine, and the West does not consciously give loans to Ukraine, thereby confidently leading it to default after which certain regions of western Ukraine will break away from it, connecting with neighboring states (Poland, Romania, Hungary). this is my personal opinion

[1812 1945]

[quote = rotmistr60] Russia was once again divorced and moreover it was divorced in favor of Poroshenko. [/ quote]
[quote = rotmistr60] [quote] I would like to hope that only the author of the material has such a nasty feeling, and that in reality everything is much more optimistic, because no one spoke about implementation ... [/ quote]

Alas. Today the euphoria will subside among the staff "praise-gurus" and many will feel the true smell of what happened. But this is not the final act of the tragedy, but another fight under the carpet, where, alas - led by inveterate intriguers - the Anglo-Saxons, the Gay Europeans have become more skilled than ours ... What can not be said about their deeds on real battlefields. Those who say that the key to our common success lies in the heroism and military skill of the Army of Novorossiya are right.

[zzz]

Quote: 1812 1945

Right are those who say that the guarantee of our common success lies in the heroism and military skill of the Army of New Russia.

+ + + + + +

[Papakiko]

Quote: 1812 1945

Right are those who say that the guarantee of our common success lies in the heroism and military skill of the Army of New Russia.

For all 10005000% !!!

Quote: Ascetic

Lukashenko: Well, gentlemen, we are suffering here because of this stoned freak

If only it was so, then the waltzman had long ago died under the sign of "surgical waste".
And at the moment we have a massive delivery of weapons, ammunition and specialists with geese for the "Summer conflagration" to the outskirts. The summer company will be very, very bloody.

Quote: Ascetic

Already today, after the EU meeting, Merkel announced the expansion of sanctions

That's right, they went and are going in the "right" direction.

[k174oun7]

Nobody bred Russia. At a meeting of heads of state, Merkel pushed Poroshenko for a handshake. After this forced handshake, Putin made an eloquent gesture with his hands, as if shaking off the touch of a murderer and a weak-willed puppet from himself, and therefore from Russia. This gesture said more and more than many hours of talking and signing by others of an amorphous document. It was clear that according to a long-obsolete scenario, Russia once again required some kind of concession, a guilty plea, and repentance.
The Olando-Merkels are still thought in terms of categories from the time of Yeltsin-Kozyrev. To stop the war, first of all, a change of political regime in Ukraine is needed, at least relatively independent of Washington. In Ukraine, the next change in power figures is ripening. Who will be them, and most importantly, whether Mr. Putin will be able to conduct another brilliant operation — that is what the end of the war depends on.

[U-47]

Quote: k174un7

Merkel pushed Poroshenko for a handshake. After this forced handshake, Putin made an eloquent gesture with his hands, as if shaking off the touch of a murderer and a weak-willed puppet from himself, and therefore from Russia. This gesture says more and more than many hours of talking and signing

come on, the lyrics are all that. Wow - in a sign language they sent a message to the world ... But Putin broke a pen ... So what? What sign do you see in this?

[coolvoldik]

Interestingly, as a result of a change in political figures, will anyone come to power: Trupchinov or Yaytsenyukh?
What a brilliant victory! Maybe Biden, he looked so good in the chair of the president of "Ukraine".

[Proud.]

Quote: Far Republican

you and I have in a perverted form.

Do not attribute your pranks to others.

[VAF]

Quote: rotmistr60

You do not have that feeling alone. Personally, I have an anxious feeling that Russia was once again divorced and, moreover, divorced in favor of Poroshenko.

Absolutely! +! And not just lit, but .... "framed" so that now any .. "sound of hands" will be classified as "violation of everything and everything", and even more so that under these ..... "papers2 are signed President of the Russian Federation.
Immediately after arriving in Brussels, the "mackerel" announced that ... "let's see how the separatists will fulfill these agreements." , and "hot Finnish guy", so generally blurted out "now Russia will definitely be to blame. if what ...."
Those. VERDICT ALREADY DECIDED !!!! Examples are Volnovakha, Kramotorsk.
Generally .. I do not want to write on this topic ..... Author RIGHT! And you, dear, Gennady is the same!
Unfortunately, although expecting something "new" .. would be at least .. naive!

[SRC P-15]

And America said that if Ukraine does not fulfill the agreements, the United States will not apply sanctions to it - thereby showing that Ukraine is not a priori guilty.
But I think Putin has foreseen all this and most likely these Minsk agreements will not have to be applied at all. Now upon Poroshenko’s return home, he will begin the most important actions for him - he can be removed from power. And then all the agreements are worthless.

[zzz]

Quote: СРЦ П-15

And America said that if Ukraine does not fulfill the agreements, the United States will not apply sanctions to it - thereby showing that Ukraine is not a priori guilty.
But I think Putin foresaw all this

Therefore, sanctions again imposed that they did not agree with Putin in Minsk!

[alicante11]

And before he qualified differently? At least until Minsk-1, even after?
Those. nothing has changed, what is the divorce?
Or is lack of victory already a defeat?

[rotmistr60]

For VAF
I also agree with you. In any case, the West has one verdict - Russia is to blame for everything. Therefore, the statements of Merkel on sanctions, Olanda on the Mistrals are already following.

[coolvoldik]

How quickly the situation regresses can be assessed by studying your own comments (in the section my comments).
August commentary on the general deterioration of the situation.
In the middle of March we had:
1. The illegitimate anarchist power in Kiev.
2. Fully inefficient army of Ukraine.
3. The Society of Ukraine, split 50 / 50 and pronounced structured pro-Russian sentiments along the line Kharkov-Dnieper-Odessa.
4. Shock and confusion of the West after the Crimea.
5. A clear ideology that strengthened our sense of rightness is anti-fascism.
6. Lots of prepositions to make peacemakers.

What results do we have in 4 for a month of brilliant non-lead and non-provocative policies?

1. In Ukraine, there is an officially recognized president. This president is an enemy and a liar.
2. The army of Ukraine gained sufficient combat capability to fight with rebels barely supported by us.
3. The centers of the pro-Russian Russian resistance in Ukraine are suppressed by force everywhere except in the zone of the uprising.
4. The West has found the strings for which you can pull Russian foreign policy, consolidated the 5 column in the Russian elites, and developed a package of anti-Russian measures.
5. Our ideology has been destroyed for months of talking about "miners do not fight," "the main thing is not to succumb to provocations," "if their problems bomb them," and so on ... The message "Russians don't throw theirs" is completely erased by what they really threw.
6. A week ago, we could justifiably act as peacekeepers. They were deceived to the point that we were deprived of this position by provocation with a Boeing.
So, having on hand all the trump cards, for the 4 of the month to pro..rat all - this requires an extraordinary political intelligence and talent.
After another 6 months, the result is a semi-prostitution policy towards the republics of New Russia.
1.Donetsk, Lugansk, Gorlovka and other cities of Novorossia turned into ruins ..
2.The total irretrievable losses of the population of the Donetsk and Lugansk People’s Republic are not even worth assessing.
3. The situation of the people remaining in the cities resembles the situation of besieged Leningrad.
4. The military balance on the fronts does not bode well in the near future of any significant improvement in the situation in the Republics.
5. Western sanctions, with the support of the neoliberal government, began to bring tangible benefits in the destruction of our raw materials economy.
6. Real deliveries of NATO weapons to "Ukraine" began, and all types of military assistance were provided by instructors and mercenaries. Even Lithuania is kicking us, and one of the first to join in the “help”.
7. If you give control of the border to the Ukrainian fascists, then the Holocaust will seem like a child's game compared to the ethnic cleansing that Kiev will unleash in the Donbas.
Our political leadership has driven the situation into a dead end, and the West now, primarily Europe, has prepared for a military confrontation in Ukraine. If we compare the situation with March of last year, this is a complete defeat.
Remember the old joke about two news - one is bad and the other is good.
Bad - The bison went north.
Good one. - Shit is enough for everyone.

[GOGY]

You + for a competent alignment, sorry I can’t put more

[Normal]

Quote: coolvoldik

As of mid-March, we had: ....
What results do we have for 4 of the month of brilliant non-driving and non-provocative policies ......
If we compare the situation with March of last year, this is a complete defeat.

But "Putin has outplayed everyone" and "VVP plays long"
And for the analysis, plus.

[saag]

Quote: Normal

"GDP plays long"

And there or the padishah will die or donkey :-)

[Normal]

Quote: saag

And there or the padishah will die or

Will not die. He has half of this and another six-year term. It will be successful not to give power to anyone, but not die.

[Skif83]

Some of you are incredulous. How could they get Putin apart, don’t you mean it :)
Ponte is easier to pound, it is easier to spit in Stalin, it is easier to put oneself higher, and in fact, liquid-liquid ...

[pilot67]

Under Stalin, it was easier. There the tank armies would reach the English Channel in a few days, if in a few hours. Plus an airborne landing everywhere. The only deterrent could be atomic bombs. And this, provided that we would go on a march for a year that way. at 47.And at 45 to the puddle we would have gone as though hello. With respect, if you can contrast me with the opposite, that is, after May 9, we would not be able to fight further.

[GRAY]

Quote: rotmistr60

I want to upset you. You do not have that feeling alone. Personally, I have an anxious feeling that Russia was once again divorced and, moreover, divorced in favor of Poroshenko.

To start:

1. An immediate and comprehensive ceasefire in certain areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine and its strict implementation starting from 00:00. (Kyiv time) February 15, 2015.

I think that if the first point is not fulfilled, everything will end.

[rotmistr60]

I think so too. But at the same time, Kiev will receive at least a small, but respite. And, what follows then - time will tell.

[Vol50]

And what actually happened? DNI and LC ceased to exist? Kiev granted autonomy to New Russia? Militias laid down their arms? No, everything is as it is. The only thing that is really a truce. Who is doing this bad? Donetsk and Lugansk, which is subjected to shelling every day? No, not bad, the death of innocent people is bad. "The best war is the one that has not started." Sun Tzu is a Chinese strategist and thinker.

[maxcor1974]

Has a truce already begun? And where is the confidence that it will begin in 00.00 15.02.2015? For the time remaining before him, so much blood will be shed that not everyone can stop. Especially considering the non-control of the Terbats of the Moscow Region is independent.

[Corsair]

Why then immediately bred? Does anyone believe that you can stop the war just like that - having gathered four together and having talked for half a day?
Everyone understands that Poroshenko does not solve anything, the Armed Forces, the National Guard, some PMCs, and just mercenaries - do you think this is all controlled?
The truce is an attempt to temporarily freeze the war - everyone understands that the introduction of peacekeeping forces at the borders is necessary in the current situation to level the situation, creating a buffer zone. Also, all the figures that are decisive in this GAME are waiting for the one who could take the heaviest burden on himself, Poroshenko is not such a person, this blissful step cannot take a step without consultations from above, just like his government are the same clowns, but radically customized.
Who can I discuss the world with now? The issue of peace enforcement is very close, and most likely this will happen in the spring when Poroshenko, and Merkel and Oland, in fact, show their complete failure.
Ukrainians in the rest of the territory should understand that they are simply being sold to American oligarchs and the IMF, a year has passed and many begin to see clearly.
But Putin has leaked - it’s easy to say about sanctions too, you think the GDP does not understand the concept of these gayrope and Amer’s gopniks - give slack and you will be pulled on the glands. Look at Greece, they already offer German banks to sell the islands so that to pay for loans.

[UFO]

Quote: rotmistr60

Personally, I have an anxious feeling that Russia was once again divorced and, moreover, divorced in favor of Poroshenko.

Do not rush to get upset
People in the comments: some in the forest, some for firewood. Everyone is judged from the standpoint of patriots - "give us victory at once, but we will not agree to wait for less." But if you think about it ...:
Why is Poroshenko sad? Does he care about the fate of Urkaina, the terms of the contract? Of course not, he is concerned with his own skin! He already understands that he is a "Moor" and whose fate awaits him: Gaddafi, Saakashvili or Yanukovych? That's what his "hard thoughts" are about. He turned out to be not a "dick." And they clearly want to replace him with more decisive radicals. And with his "departure", his signature under the obligations becomes invalid, you can NOT FULFILL!
Why Merkel and Oland are "not ice"? Because they want to see their cities in ruins, but they still have voters, their own parties and sponsors, and obligations, etc. So they asked Babama for "the very, very last time" "to force Russia to peace and take all the blame on himself." Did not work out. But now they can shout at the entire Western people - what kind of peacekeepers they are and how they tried. As if they earned indulgences for themselves in the "eyes of the world community."
Why are Putin and Lavrov satisfied?
- Raised the level of legitimization of the DPR and LPR (there is no more talk about "bandits", "separatists", etc.)
- Novorossia does not have enough strength for a military victory, it takes time to mobilize, train, and coordinate. And catching up with "vacationers" more than militias is "not correct."
- The circle of "participants" and monitors is expanded - it's harder to blatantly lie.
- Russia "For Peace!" for all.
- Time works by default and a new Maidan with blood in Kiev.
- More and more truth about the role of all "stakeholders", the clearer the split in Geyrop and the awareness of the consequences of the rash expansion of NATO.
I, of course, did not mention everything, there is room for options, but if you understand that everyone signed an "incompetent" agreement and everyone knows that the war will continue until the defeat of the MILITARY! one of the parties, it becomes clear the position of each "participant".
And the control in the head: no one stopped the announced mobilization in the DPR and LPR to 100 thousand bayonets! As in Urkain. Time to hone your swords.

[saag]

Quote: UFO

his signature under the obligations

She is not there

[UFO]

Quote: saag

She is not there

Do not exaggerate, it’s understandable what this is about.

[duke]

The State Department considers it unlikely adoption of sanctions against Ukraine in case of violation of the Minsk agreements. This position, answering the question of the AP journalist, was expressed by the official representative of the US Foreign Ministry, Jen Psaki.

“Of course, we urge both parties to abide by the agreement, but I think that this (sanctions against Ukraine. - Ed.) Is unlikely,” said Psaki. - Over the past six months, Ukraine has complied with the Minsk agreements, but Russia has not. That's what we rely on, ”the representative of the State Department argued.

[avdkrd]

Quote: rotmistr60

I want to upset you. You do not have that feeling alone. Personally, I have an anxious feeling that Russia was once again divorced and, moreover, divorced in favor of Poroshenko.

It seems to me that not everything is so sad. Putin has never made himself an idiot before, and it is unlikely that he suddenly stupid or leaked the interests of Russia. The results of the negotiations cannot be implemented primarily by the Outskirts and, accordingly, the failure of the agreements will fall on Porosenko and the company. We should expect a further escalation of the conflict and in no case do not relax. Even now, the Ukro-European orchestra is playing out of place. Poros declares a unitary outskirts, and oland declares federalization. Poros is no longer a player - the party of war will sweep him. The entire fascist shushara of which the Rada consists is by no means interested in stopping the war. An enemy to whom it is possible to blame the anusoidal economic situation for an independent and monstrous cut - you can’t do anything.

[Aleksiy]

I agree, it is very disturbing in my heart. Like Ukraine with evil..maydans - on the same rake, so Russia with its truces in Chechnya and in Ukraine. Only the Russians are about to win, as the arrogant Saxons are right there, and they are forcing the Russian leadership to REFUSE the victory. Well, how much can you?

[ishkovam]

I agree. And in favor of the United States. At the same time, Merkel and Hollande were promoted as peacekeepers ... and Putin’s fate - which also suggests itself - will soon be accused of violating the peace treaty. As always, Moscow will be to blame for everything. The offensive of the Militia will be suspended ... besides - where will the militias go from the front line? For Donetsk ?! For the airport ?!

[cosmos111]

Quote: rotmistr60

Personally, I have a worrying feeling that Russia was once again divorced and, moreover, divorced in favor of Poroshenko

this is confirmed by analytics professionals ... like J. Kedmi .. the smartest person ...
and one of the few Anti-Fascists in Israel ...


info from: http: //iton.tv/vse-programmy/osobaya-papka/item/2313-ya-kedmi-ssha-popytaetsya-
vooruzhit-ukrainskuyu-armiyu-do-zubov

[KOMA]

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa! Do not bribe Yasha, we have not leaked anyone!

[Alexy]

It is difficult now to say who divorced whom, time will tell. But to negotiate with Kiev is useless - this is unequivocal. Obviously, Putin simply made Merkel’s concessions, so that later they wouldn’t accuse Russia of not agreeing. Although they still blame and impose new sanctions. It is necessary to negotiate with the United States.

[Will]

In order to "take" something, you need to "give" something.
Who and how much "loses" or "wins" at the same time is not so much a general question as it is subjective, because in mathematics it is impossible to take into account the feelings that can, as it were, add either pluses or minuses. For me, the contract carries more pluses precisely because it makes it possible in the future (and more than once) to "reproach" the same Poroshenko for non-fulfillment of the Minsk agreements, and even in many respects. Already today there is a discrepancy, but the most important thing is that Russia, Germany and France should understand the same what they signed, because only then they - Russia, Germany and the Faction - will be allies in barely ending the war on Ukrainian soil. Something like this. I think so.

[Blondy]

When I see the name of Zurabov, I have a similar feeling, but with nuances: we all got divorced - and this is not the West. And there is an understanding that we, the Russian people, were once again simply betrayed, and the fifth column acquires another surname, first name, middle name.

[Yars]

rotmistr if Russia had been divorced, it would be drawn into this conflict by introducing its regular troops in the Donbass and the war would cover the whole of Europe, as the United States expected. Putin is smart and did not make the same mistake as Nikolay 2 once got involved in the first world war that was organized for this.

[D_E_A_L_E_R]

I already wrote, but I repeat again: for me it’s not a contract, it’s FUFLO.

[sergey32]

The bottom line is to save lives. Silenok is not enough for a complete victory. And dill shares the opportunity to collapse on their own. IMHO.

[Defense]

Quote: sergey32

The bottom line is to save lives. Silenok is not enough for a complete victory. And dill was given the opportunity to collapse on its own.

This is a very correct thought!
Remember how long they could not destroy the boilers last year, they lasted 1-2 months.
This year, the offensive of the army of New Russia lasts almost a month, but there are no serious results.
Debaltsevsky boiler still can not be eliminated.
These examples show that the forces and means in the army of Novorossiya are not enough, which means that the "truce" is in favor of Novorossiya. During this time, it is necessary to dig up forces and when the junta violates its agreements, it will be possible to strike at the tonsils themselves. By that time, the people of Ukraine will see the light of hunger.
Yes, by the way, why doesn’t anyone write about the incident of Zakharchenko and Poroshenko ...

[Dangerous]

What do you want? So that they signed an agreement on the division of Ukraine and the independence of the DPR and LPR ?? Rave! These negotiations were aimed primarily at a ceasefire, which we managed to agree on

[Igor39]

So the fire has not stopped yet, let's see 15 in the morning.

[Loner_53]

Not a contract, but just some kind of muddy 16-hour seat, with the road to nowhere

[Karabanov]

Contractors got tired after a sleepless night, signed autographs and left. Poroshenko is satisfied.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Does everyone have a sense of deja vu? again to save the "cauldron" ... isn't it a dance on a rake? The Yankees gathered about 40 billion to throw it into the fire, not so that it went out.

[VseDoFeNi]

They will not give money. for them, the proverb has become urgent: a wedge is everywhere. Chess players call this zugzwang. This is not yet a riot on the ship, but the strike committees are already working.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

but the strike committees are already working.

the states will crush the riot, be sure that they will not let go of the leash.

[VseDoFeNi]

This is for now. Rest assured. Britain also released the colonies and lost its great power status. And the US will lose. This is not the first time Russia has buried other empires.

[U-47]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

This is not the first time Russia has buried other empires.

What do you mean?

[VseDoFeNi]

I mean the Ottoman Empire, for example. Hitler Germany aka Third Reich. Citizen of Napoleon, Swedes with Poles ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

I mean the Ottoman Empire, for example. Hitler Germany aka Third Reich. Citizen of Napoleon, Swedes with Poles ...

add the USSR ...

[U-47]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

add the USSR ...

Yurich, I don’t know why they are being minus. Personally, a plus from me.

[VseDoFeNi]

The Soviet Union, like the Russian Empire, was destroyed by the communists from the inside. Not the external aggressor, but stupidity, greed and gullibility are guilty of this.

[saag]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

The USSR, like the Russian Empire, was destroyed by the Communists from the inside.

Are you talking about Yeltsin? So he put a party card on the table under the USSR, probably someone Putin followed him, who served in the party’s front-line detachment - the KGB, an amazing thing is the faith of people in those who once betrayed their ideals

[VseDoFeNi]

This is about Kravchuk, and about Kuchma and about the millions of other communists ...
Today, under Putin, people in Russia live as RICH as they never lived in the foreseeable past. Vivid evidence of this is the courtyards of Russian cities, clogged with cars, many of which were bought with overpayment on credit. This indicates that people have money to overpay and the lack of intelligence, so as not to overpay.
And it was under Putin that Russia regained the status of a Great Power.

[saag]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

Vivid evidence of this is the courtyards of Russian cities, clogged with cars,

And during the times of the USSR, there were cars in the courtyards, and even during the times of the USSR there was a pharmaceutical industry, machine-tool building, a radio industry, an aviation industry, a light industry and many other "promos", can the Russian Federation boast such a developed industry or is it just a lot of imports?

[VseDoFeNi]

It was, but the Communists destroyed the USSR, as I have said this more than once, and I will remind you more than once so as not to repeat the same in the future. The hands of the Communists of the Russian Federation are just a splinter of the whole. You must understand that the dismemberment of even a person, even a state, is a big trouble for the dismembered. When trying to blame today's leadership, do not forget that he has to correct the consequences of the dismemberment of the USSR.

[Dry_T-50]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

The Soviet Union, like the Russian Empire, was destroyed by the communists from the inside. Not the external aggressor, but stupidity, greed and gullibility are guilty of this.

The Communists tried to save the USSR in August 91. And the Gorbachev band destroyed it

[VseDoFeNi]

Do not talk nonsense. In the USSR, the Communists had all power, which they mediocrely ruined. Voluntarily left all markets, both external and internal, depriving our industry of financing. Etc.
And the "Gorbachev gang" did all this to the applause and standing ovation of some communists and with the indifferent consent of others.

PS The number of "Gorbachev's gang" can you say and list by name?
A gang is a small group of people.

[vladkavkaz]

VseDoFeNi
Not for nothing that you have appropriated yourself such a nickname?
For chatter, there is no demand .. yes, and the flag on nickname, it would be worth changing, because here the flag is more needed, either American or English, it was profitable and joyful for them, and I look the same for you ..

When a country is destroyed not by an external adversary, but from within, by those who use all the power of a state machine, media of all kinds, the effect of a frog in a pot of water is obtained, she does not understand that she does not cook much ..
In the end, learn the realities, and do not spread myths that are beneficial to those who, as then, lied, distorted, contributed to the destruction of the country. And DOES it again, now.

Gorbachev and his gang. Having taken key posts, are the direct culprits of the tragedy. And you should not have rejoiced with a crooked grin, but understood, not the USSR, but Russia, which was Russia, in the form of the USSR in all its geographic and historical boundaries. .

[saag]

Quote: VseDoFeNi

"Gorbachev's gang"

Be consistent, call everything by their proper names in chronological order: "Gorbachev's gang", "Yeltsin's gang", whose gang is it now?

[U-47]

Quote: saag

now whose gang?

now - the elite. Political, financial and so on. This, of course, does not change the essence.

[saag]

Quote: U-47

now - the elite.

Symbiosis of power, business and crime, as they say "in tango three of us" :)

Paul Craig Roberts: Games with the West cost Putin a reputation http://politobzor.net/show-44600-pol-kreyg-roberts-igry-s-zapadom-stoili-putinu-
reputation.html

[VseDoFeNi]

Listen to them more.

[VseDoFeNi]

Now the leadership that brought Russia to the leading places in the world for various indicators. And it gave the people in Russia a richer life than before.

[berenika]

gullibility can be removed, and 1 and 2 multiplied by infinity

[SHILO]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Does everyone have a sense of deja vu? again to save the "cauldron" ... isn't it a dance on a rake? The Yankees gathered about 40 billion to throw it into the fire, not so that it went out.

Hello Andrey Yuryevich. I will tell you a very sensible observation. Deja Vu does not leave. In general, the word Minsk in the format of the above negotiations is high time to write with a small letter. Since I, for example, Minsk is no longer associated with the city. Associated exclusively with the next stage of the war.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Hello Shiloh! are you already in a new place?

[SHILO]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Hello Shiloh! are you already in a new place?

Yes. I am sitting near Eburg - I am making out. I’ll make out and I’ll probably go further ... To the Far East. Always dreamed ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: SHILO

Always dreamed ...

well, good luck to you! time to fulfill dreams.

[SHILO]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

Quote: SHILO

Always dreamed ...

well, good luck to you! time to fulfill dreams.

Thank. And you too!

[cergey51046]

Do not deceive yourself. Nothing was achieved. 16 hours to empty. Putin could not ride. Only prevented Novorossia protect their rights. There is nothing to talk with pawns about when the United States and Russia are fighting.

[orphan 63]

But Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky are satisfied:
"- We signed an agreement following the summit of the Normandy Four. We hope that now we can begin to rebuild our republics. I think that the adoption of this document is a great victory for the DPR and LPR," said Alexander Zakharchenko
The country itself and the people will change too. We know for sure that changes await Ukraine thanks to the residents of Donbass, - noted the head of the LPR, - victory will be ours. "
http://lifenews.ru/news/149776

[U-47]

Quote: Orphan 63

But Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky are satisfied:

And what? They signed the document as individuals. Have you ever been witnessed in an alcohol test? They were keenly interested in the fate of the patient who blew the breathalyzer?

[zzz]

Quote: cergey51046

Do not deceive yourself. Nothing was achieved. 16 hours to empty. Putin could not ride. Only prevented Novorossia protect their rights. There is nothing to talk with pawns about when the United States and Russia are fighting.

Yes, everyone understands this, even during the negotiations the Donbass was hollowed even more than usual. People are tired of the bombing, the militias are not sweet, they need weapons, and there are not enough people, a lot of losses. Russia's strategic task is to set the United States at the negotiating table.

[vladkavkaz]

zzz
You can explain why you and the one to whom you are so encouraging are repeating exactly the same thing that they are talking about on such an obviously anti-Russian resource as Echo of Moscow?
Here are their cries
http://maxpark.com/community/politic/content/3288719
How do they differ from the many screaming here that the mustache is gone?

[Tambov Wolf]

The strategic task of Russia is to heap the abyss of weapons into Novorossiya, to reach Kiev, to hang the entire Caudle, and to make from "Ukraine" a complete Novorossia, consisting of all the former regions of "Ukraine".

[VseDoFeNi]

Russia's strategic goal is to deprive the arrogant Saxons of great power, including free grandmas. And by and large, in the strategic plan, the main task is to build a fair society on the entire planet with the transfer of the global economy from degradation-parasitic to demographically driven with the restoration of the maximum of biocenoses and the transformation of the Earth into a flourishing planet. In creating a Garden of Eden on Earth, if you will.

[VseDoFeNi]

Russia's strategic goal is to deprive the arrogant Saxons of great power, including free grandmas. And by and large, in the strategic plan, the main task is to build a fair society on the entire planet with the transfer of the global economy from degradation-parasitic to demographically driven with the restoration of the maximum of biocenoses and the transformation of the Earth into a flourishing planet. In creating a Garden of Eden on Earth, if you will.

[BecmepH]

Are OURS bent?

[cergey51046]

Of course, read the developments.

[VNP1958PVN]

There is no particular joy from what happened. They saved the urkoyak in the Debaltsevsky cauldron; they are going to restore urban control over the border. Parsley began to give up everything right there, apparently he was going out to hang out. (And Lukashenko immediately began to smear alcohol-no one drank alcohol). As if all this did not result in even more blood.

[U-47]

Quote: VNP1958PVN

There is no particular joy from what happened.

Yes, it’s full. And what did you actually expect? In general, I doubt that someone prepared a box of firecrackers and booze to mark the results of Minsk.

[vladkavkaz]

VNP1958PVN
Dear, well, probably not possessing even a bit of knowledge about what is happening, except for the picture from the video and TV, it is impossible to take hasty conclusions and give them out as a final opinion?
Where is it about saving ukrovoyak? She is not.
On the line of demarcation, they don’t get into it, they will leave, only without all the weapons, and we don’t need extra corpses, we need this with America and England ..

How do you read the document?
On the other side of the sheet?
And paragraph 11, did not try to read and understand what is written there?
However, not only 11, but in general everything, points?
You then have a comprehensive recipe for a way out of this situation, do not share your masterpiece plan?
That Moscow’s Echo is yelling
http://maxpark.com/community/politic/content/3288719
Are you satisfied with these screams?

It’s not sad, it’s not pleasant, but we have to admit reality, UKROKHUNTA will not give up without a fight, especially since she is directly controlled by the United States and the conflict does not have a solution within 24 hours.

But even in the form in which the Ruin now exists, the country has a 404 error; it has no future and existence.
So, PEACE is yes, but it is worth accepting reality, the conflict will be long ...

[siberalt]

There are some misunderstandings about signing documents. Toli four agreed verbally, the felts put their signatures. I found a photo of these documents without signatures (possibly even before signing). And why does this declaration oblige the parties?

[siberalt]

And this is the second sheet (tail). I can not vouch for the authenticity of the photo. But that is, that is.

[CONTROL]

This document is not signed - it is a declaration of the participating countries ...

[lao_tsy]

The most interesting thing is that the implementation of this "agreement" is again entrusted to Russia. Not to Europe or Ukraine or the United States, which started all this, but to Russia. That is, what happens: the military formations of Kiev, which do not obey him, do what they want, and Russia is to blame.
"OSCE standards"? It's funny, isn't it ...
Here's what's funny. Found checkers. An organization that, in addition to the talk room and the implementation of the plan of Washington, was no different.
Anyway, Russia will be to blame!

[DMB-75]

... but it didn’t come to that ...

[SRC P-15]

Quote: DMB-75

... but it didn’t come to that ...

But then this could happen:

[Sunseich]

the stolen gas comes out ...

[Mikhail m]

Politicians live in a different reality, invented by themselves.

[farkop]

Stop. On the 12th, they rumbled across all media that Russia was taken out of the conflict. And Zurabov’s signature is like that. and where the signatures of the guarantors tobish Merkel and Hollande. and who is Kuchma the second president is he acting chtoli. with whom tell the favor this rubbish is signed.

[romashki74]

Quote: BecmepH

Are OURS bent?

Like last time.

[mik0588]

The main thing:
- Russia has not undertaken any obligations.
- Russia is not recognized as a party to the conflict.
- Russian aggression against Ukraine is not recognized.
- The presence of Russian troops in Ukraine is not condemned.
- There is no requirement to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine.
- Crimea is not mentioned at all in the adopted documents.
IMHO of course ...

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: mik0588

- Russia is not recognized as a party to the conflict.

by whom?

Quote: mik0588

- Russian aggression against Ukraine is not recognized.

by whom?

Quote: mik0588

- The presence of Russian troops in Ukraine is not condemned.

by whom?

Quote: mik0588

- There is no requirement to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine.

yah? tell the states!

[AndreyS]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

by whom?

Well, why are you holding out ?!

Quote: mik0588

The main thing:
- Russia has not undertaken any obligations.
- Russia is not recognized as a party to the conflict.
- Russian aggression against Ukraine is not recognized.
- The presence of Russian troops in Ukraine is not condemned.
- There is no requirement to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine.
- Crimea in adopted documents not mentioned at all.
IMHO of course ...

It’s clearly written here - in the adopted document! And please excuse me, dumb-headed states have nothing to prove and cannot.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

Quote: AndreyS

And please excuse me, dumb-headed states have nothing to prove and cannot.

dumbheads, these are not the states that know exactly what they want ...

[Lucigenius.]

So this is what they want to know, not only they, but everyone, including us ... That's why they break off! : D

[vladkavkaz]

Andrey Yuryevich
And actually, what are you unhappy with?
It was necessary to write point by point that Russia was guilty of everything, you would have become more pleased and joyful from this, and that in addition the USA would also have lips Psaki from the rostrum, squealed joyfully, WE SAY THE SAME, Russia is to blame for everything ..
Your skeptical, if not worse, comments are not clear ...

[CONTROL]

...By whom? those who "did not sign" (the Declaration) ...

[MMX]

Crimea is not at all involved. Negotiations are about the war in the Donbass.
As for the withdrawal of "Russian troops", there is this clause in the agreement (where it says about the withdrawal of all foreign troops and mercenaries from the territory of the DPR and LPR).

[AndreyS]

Quote: MMX

As for the withdrawal of "Russian troops", there is this clause in the agreement (where it says about the withdrawal of all foreign troops and mercenaries from the territory of the DPR and LPR).

I specify; "...ten. The withdrawal of all foreign armed groups, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under the supervision of the OSCE. The disarmament of all illegal groups ..."
Where do you see from the territory of the DPR ?! It all means allAmerican including!

[MMX]

I specify:
"Declaration of the President of the Russian Federation, the President of Ukraine, the President of the French Republic and the Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany in support of the Package of Measures for the Implementation of the Minsk Agreements, adopted on February 12, 2015
President of the Russian Federation Vladimir Putin, President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko, President of the French Republic Francois Hollande and Chancellor of the Federal Republic of Germany Angela Merkel confirm full respect for the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine... They are firmly convinced that there is no alternative to an exclusively peaceful settlement. They are fully prepared to take any possible measures, both individually and jointly for this purpose. "


RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/world/20150212/1047311428.html#ixzz3RbEjfryB

This is not taking into account the fact that the DPR and LPR are returning to the legal and financial-economic field of Ukraine, according to the same agreement to which you refer ...

[vladkavkaz]

MMX
You studied point 11 .. Well, at least something of the signed, read and understood that the conditions there are such that they, Ruin, CANNOT be met, well, why can’t this be understood .. And if you CAN’t, then what?
This means the END to the Ruin project, and the green light to the Novorosiya project in one form or another.

[U-47]

Quote: vladkavkaz

You studied point 11 .. Well, at least something of the signed, read and understood that the conditions there are such that they, Ruin, CAN’T fulfill

I agree here. UNIAN leads the dialogue Lyashko and Klimkin at a meeting of the Rada:
Lyashko: “I ask who gave you the right to trade the Ukrainian Constitution?”
Klimkin: “Any subsequent conversations regarding the special regime of Donbass will be carried out and implemented within the framework of the law that has already been adopted by the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine, and within the framework of the implementation of this law ... there are no obligations in any form - not legally binding, no, and I emphasize this, in political form, it was in this text that no one took it. "(c)
There will be no modernization of the xoxlyak constitution "for Donbass".

[MMX]

You will carefully study the clauses of the agreement, including 11. It is written there not about the Donetsk region or Lugansk region, but about their separate regions (!!!) in these regions. Those. those that are now controlled by the DNI and LC. Those. it’s not even about areas. And there you can enter local (I repeat, local, features) that do not affect the unitarity of Ukraine. You can easily carry out this item formally and then wait for the opponent’s reaction. That will be done, and then all the arrows on non-compliance with the agreements will be transferred to the militias and Russia.
Yes, actually this is happening.

[Cynic]

Quote: MMX

You can easily perform this item formally.

Who to do? National Guard will fulfill the Minsk Agreement?

[mpa945]

I specify; "... 10. The withdrawal of all foreign armed formations, military equipment, as well as mercenaries from the territory of Ukraine under the supervision of the OSCE. Disarmament of all illegal groups ..."
Where do you see from the territory of the DPR ?! To all this means everyone, including the United States!

Read carefully!
Did someone recognize Crimea as Russian?
We will not withdraw troops from the Crimea.
Formally ... An excuse for the ruins' failure to fulfill the terms of the agreement, and for their owners - to continue "punishing the aggressor."
Disarmament ... Someone will argue, WHO will the junta insist on disarmament?
National Guard and Terbats are already legalized.
The withdrawal of heavy weapons ...
There is also a lot of confusion here. Maybe I didn’t "grease the skis", but the assigned heavy MLRS and Points At the Ruins (IMHO) will finish up to the same Gorlovka, Donetsk and Lugansk. But the answer - definitely not!
And about "lightly armed" - there is no question.
Conclusion: God forbid for some time without shelling ... And then in question.

[saag]

Quote: mik0588

- Russia has not undertaken any obligations.

there is a signature under: the amnesty project, the disarmament of illegal groups (militias, that is), the withdrawal of heavy equipment

[Drmadfisher]

I agree, and Novorossia will not accept any documents where the boundaries of the regions until the outbreak of the conflict and, naturally, of any autonomy, only independence, are not clearly marked.

[U-47]

Quote: mik0588

- There is no requirement to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine.

there is a clause on the withdrawal of foreign troops

[Kombrig]

Quote: mik0588

Russia has not undertaken any obligations.
- Russia is not recognized as a party to the conflict.
- Russian aggression against Ukraine is not recognized.
- The presence of Russian troops in Ukraine is not condemned.
- There is no requirement to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine.
- Crimea is not mentioned at all in the adopted documents.
IMHO of course ...

- Russia did not kill Kennedy
- Do not drown the Titanic
- Did not capture the moon.
- Does not travel in time
The European Union and Ukraine have confirmed all these points, cheers the victory of our diplomacy ...

[qQQQ]

Quote: mik0588

The main thing:
- Russia has not undertaken any obligations.

It can be continued that for the first time almost all obligations were hanged in Ukraine, and financial ones too, and Merkel and Oland act as guarantor. It seems that if people read, they don’t get to the bottom of it, they write down to transfer border control, then everything is all in panic and everything ..... is it possible to read and think about the conditions of the transfer more carefully? The agreement is an absolute plus for both New Russia and Russia. There is nothing that obliged either to do or guarantee Russia. The fact that it will be respected will not be in doubt, it is obvious that Ukraine will start first and all responsibility will already fall on Powder, etc. All-crawlers were already tired, the main thing is that there is no reason for this.

[Unclean]

Ukrokhokhly will not begin to comply with all clauses of the contract. Right-wingers already in the past .. climbed, the nondisputant Lyashkin crooked holey mouth spits with saliva. And everyone yells in chorus that this is a betrayal of hohlostan. They will tear down this agreement, and it will be a dill failure, since no one will let them out of the boiler with weapons. So there will be a truce and the resulting rearrangement and again a fight. For it is not profitable for the Americans to keep quiet on our borders, and it’s time to put the Eurogames back, so it's all about to show the world whose hands are in poop.

[MMX]

Now experts will come running and will say what kind of "jewelry work" and "brilliant party" our Putin and Co. have done. They say everyone was killed by this agreement and put Ukraine and the United States under responsibility ...
By the way, the United States is by no means against and insolently just like that, and declared that they fully support and welcome the Minsk agreements. apparently, they don’t understand that the cunning Putin drove them into a trap ...
I am not saying that everything is lost. But the outcome of the negotiations, at least compromise, therefore, talking about victory is incorrect.

[Cynic]

Quote: MMX

talking about victory is incorrect.

Civilians almost stopped dying, the shelling of cities ceased, this is currently the main thing.
The rest is tinsel, under which anything can be hidden, at our level of awareness. The Hungarians’s GDP over there, has clearly laid out everything.

[siberalt]

Here about "Tornado S", it comes first.

[Cynic]

Quote: siberalt

Here about "Tornado S", it comes first.

Can this be considered confirmation of the adoption of the armament and the presence in the troops of this MLRS?
And then here I tried several times to enlighten on this issue and nothing ...
The only thing about Tornado-G is known, but about -C?

[ma_shlomha]

Personally, I have a worrying feeling that the fifth column and agents of influence do not leave Russia alone.

[Alexandr73]

There will be no peace and "one extreme" there. No matter what documents are accepted or signed. I somehow filled my neighbor's face (for the cause), so he did not talk to me for 3 years, now we seem to say hello, and this is just a face, after 2 weeks everything went away. And there? thousands of dead (from all sides), tens of thousands of wounded, maimed, disabled. Thousands of houses were destroyed, hundreds of thousands were forced to flee the country leaving everything and all this, by the wave of a magic wand, should people forget and forgive? IT'S IMPOSSIBLE!

[Normal]

Of course, you can admire the negotiation marathon and the "desire for peace" of its participants, but it seems to me that the mountain gave birth to a mouse.
What the heads of state agreed on for 16 hours can be destroyed with extraordinary ease by some "ideological" Ukrainian battalion commander.
And all of this is well understood, but they make the right face.

[Thunderbolt]

"Ideological" Ukrainian battalions do not exist, but even here you are very perspicacious, after that Kiev will receive considerable assistance from the IMF, and also against the background of continuing instability in the front zone, Poroshenko will increase its military capabilities (with the help of instructor, military-technical and logistical assistance I believe that if Putin arrived in Minsk where Obama did not bother to arrive, then this is a reversal. Fake. If our battalion tactical groups sit Barack Obama at the negotiating table, then something can be discussed there. But for now, the oligarchs the inner circle is groaning from sanctions and the freezing of their financial activity, putting pressure on the formation of our foreign policy. I am surprised that the hairy hand of the Russian oligarchy has not laid its paw on the secret civil echelons. I think they understand that if they merge, they will be the first to be raised to bayonets .. Still, the idea of ​​Comrade Kvachkov about the jurisdiction of the robbers of the Russian state and their stopping and punishment has not been killed among the people.

[Normal]

Quote: Thunderbolt

There are no "ideological" Ukrainian battalions

I put the word ideological in brackets. What is the "ideology" of the Ukrainian battalion commanders is not a secret for us.

[Snoop]

Nothing changed. How then they saved the APU in the summer from defeat after the Ilovaysky boiler, and now. And these talks are chatter without US involvement. If Obama's signature was in this document, it would be a completely different story. And so. Putin, as they say in the Western media, forced the militias to go to armistice. And after all the correct look. Why do they need a truce at the moment? It is necessary to pressure the boiler. It would be more correct to suppress the encirclement, and only then go on a truce. And then ... a shaky truce. Ukrainians will come to their senses. The Yankees will also deliver weapons, instructors for training personnel. And all over again.

[tol]

Just like 1 Chechen, only ours on the offensive, do not allow the enemy to regroup, and pull them back
So here, just surrounded, in the boiler and immediately Merkel and Oland arrived

[beer-youk]

History repeats itself (September). But! Now in the form of farce! Before the ceasefire, the boiler will be eliminated, the hahlyatsk idiots will be withdrawn from today's line (15.02), and militias from the September line. What is the size of the dimilitarized zone? That's it! At least the civilian population will breathe easier. The only fear is that hahlys will once again put on this arrangement.

[Tambov Wolf]

Then there was one guarantor, now another, but the things are the same.

[panin58.58mail.ru]

We do not have firmness and consistency, and indeed the mind is probably in upholding our interests.

[Andrey Yuryevich]

“For me it seems impossible. This is a patch, and I predict that it will not last even a week. (...) If this happens, the pigs will begin to fly, ”said the chairman of the US Senate Arms Committee John McCain.
- here's the answer to all your questions ... in short, a smoke break, and war ...

[Asadali]

In short, here is the result of the meeting of the "Normandy Four"

[fif21]

Quote: Asadali

In short, here is the result of the meeting of the "Normandy Four"

Yes, you quit! Minsk is a complete failure of Russian diplomacy. The West is pleased, Russia caved in with the pressure of sanctions.

[Asadali]

Let over the hill also think. I do not consider Minsk a failure. This is not the first time we read a failure, leaked, etc. etc., but each time after a while it turns out that the GDP did everything right. For example, about the deployment of troops to Dill. IMHO.

[Asadali]

Quote: fif21

Yes, you quit! Minsk is a complete failure of Russian diplomacy. The West is pleased, Russia caved in with the pressure of sanctions.

I’m even afraid to imagine what 1812 would have been written when Kutuzov surrendered Moscow to Napoleon, if there was Internet then.

[PPL]

Quote: fif21

Russia caved in with the pressure of sanctions.

If possible, then in more detail, what is the deflection? Even before this meeting, Russia owes nothing to anyone after it either. Once again, they tried to drag Russia into rotten showdowns, but nothing came of it. Sanctions without Minsk hang on Russia. So what is the failure? Or Putin and Lavrov were supposed to hang aylyuly on the "Black" gang? But it will not be diplomacy anymore ...

[saag]

Quote: PPZ

Even before this meeting, Russia owes nothing to anyone after it either.

the agreement is signed by the ambassador of the Russian Federation, so if you read it you will understand that something the Russian Federation should do there

[PPL]

Quote: saag

the agreement is signed by the ambassador of the Russian Federation, so if you read it you will understand that something the Russian Federation should do there

The ambassador’s signature is for one simple reason - Russia initiated a peace plan, which was discussed back in September at a meeting of the Tripartite Contact Group, where the protocol was signed from Russia by the plenipotentiary ambassador of the Russian Federation to Ukraine Mikhail Zurabov, from Ukraine - former president Leonid Kuchma, who had a mandate from the country's leadership, from the OSCE - Swiss diplomat Heidi Tagliavini. Having said A, we must say B, therefore this time the same parties signed the protocol of the agreement. Let me remind you that the full name of the document was: The protocol following the consultations of the Tripartite Contact Group regarding joint steps aimed at implementing the Peace Plan of the President of Ukraine P. Poroshenko and the initiatives of the President of Russia V. Putin. Based on the fact that the initiative is not a duty or coercion from outside, but a voluntary expression of will, Russia itself has the right to decide what it should do and what not. What has she been doing successfully lately. But to implement, i.e. in fact, it is Ukraine and its president that are obliged to fulfill international obligations for a peaceful settlement of the situation, no matter what name they carry.

[Silhouette]

Minsk is a complete failure of Russian diplomacy

1. The talks in Minsk were held in the format "Three against one", which means "Russia against Ukraine, Germany and France", or "Russia against Europe", and if we take into account the United States, then in general it will turn out "Russia against the world."
2. The Ukrainian government and the rebels of the DPR and LPR were to sit at the negotiating table. Germany and Ukraine did not even allow the rebels to the negotiating table.
3. Russia de facto recognized itself as a party to the conflict.
4. Russia put itself in the position of aggressor in this conflict.
5. The fighting will not stop, which means peaceful people will die.

[Asadali]

A number of Ukrainian deputies are already celebrating the triumph of Petro Poroshenko in the Belarusian capital. “Thanks to the death and courage of hundreds of our children near Debaltseve, near the airport, near Mariupol, we showed Putin that his efforts are absolutely useless. He, with all of huge Russia, which is thirty times bigger than Ukraine, with a population three times bigger than in Ukraine, could not defeat our guys with the participation of his regular army, ”says Ukrainian deputy Anton Gerashchenko. - The ultimate goal of the operation was to capture Slavyansk and Kramatorsk on February 10. This did not work ... Therefore, Putin lost on all fronts. " Smarter politicians are hiding - they are not in a hurry and are waiting for the outcome of the battles for the Debaltsevsky boiler. When the Ukrainian group is defeated there, they will get enough reason to accuse the president of flushing the interests of the country and try to sit him down.

If Kiev does not succeed in releasing Debaltseve, then the president, who has essentially surrendered almost all positions in Minsk, will have only one counterargument to prove his victory - the return of Hope Savchenko to Ukraine. According to Poroshenko, Putin promised to release her under the paragraph on the release of detainees. “I was informed that this should be done as soon as possible after the completion of the medical examination and the preliminary conclusions of the investigation. I requested that this be done immediately, and my appeal was supported by the President of France and the Chancellor of Germany. This was our joint position, ”said the Ukrainian president.

However, Poroshenko was not lucky - Moscow has a different point of view on this issue. “There is no automatic mechanism for the release of a person accused of complicity in the murder, in this case of a Russian journalist,” explained Alexei Pushkov, head of the State Duma’s Foreign Affairs Committee.

[Dembel77]

It seems that the long-awaited document has been signed, but my heart is still somehow not calm. The more you re-read and ponder each line in it, the more doubts arise that this agreement is a little different from what everyone was waiting for! Is this another truce? And after him again the war? I do not want to say anything, but why then we needed these 16-hour swings! In the Donbass, in my opinion, too, the same opinion, at least there is no trust. The leadership of the DPR in the person of Zakharchenko warns in advance:

In the event that Kiev violates the agreements reached on February 12 in Minsk, no new agreements will be signed anymore, said the Head of the Donetsk People’s Republic, Alexander Zakharchenko.

“All points of the signed document require additional approvals, therefore, in case of violations, there will be no new meetings and memoranda,” Zakharchenko said. He stressed that "all responsibility for any violation of the provisions of the memorandum will rest with Poroshenko."

[CONTROL]

it will still be necessary to prove that the agreements were violated by Kiev, and not ... "by illegal armed groups in the territory controlled by the self-proclaimed ..."
And so, in fact, Russia will "resume its aggression" in the coming days ...

[Roman 11]

Quote: Dembel 77

"All responsibility for any violation of the provisions of the memorandum will rest with Poroshenko."

That is, to the lieutenant! And he also has a lieutenant colonel - Obama, then a backstage with bearded aunts Well, I think you understand what it is about - to save the bowler .......

[guznorodov]

There is a subtle game here. When these republics receive the status of "Special", they will be able, according to the principle of Crimea (Autonomy), to secede from Ukraine and join Russia or at least Germany wherever the people want. Putin has planted a big time bomb. Ukraine will rewrite the constitution. The regions will receive broad powers and can also ask for autonomy. They will live for five years and begin to secede from Ukraine. But this will no longer be a way out with the help of weapons and defending one's interests, but with the help of a referendum. It is no longer necessary to recognize all these republics in accordance with world law.

[Roman 11]

Quote: guznorodov

The constitution will be rewritten in Ukraine. Regions will receive wide powers and may also ask for autonomy.

There will immediately begin rampant Ukrainization - you saw prisoners from the pits of the SBU? So besides going to Kiev, in the very near future, they have no options! A sweep is waiting for them both in Kharkiv region and in Odessa ....... but given that they raised weapons, it is tougher in the cube ...... and Putin is unlikely to introduce an army! So, if at least a little bit of mind is left, let Strelkov be invited and really hit before the Carpathians, as the history of the Bandera snows shows, it’s impossible to agree, a year ago Yanukkovych also signed in the presence of Western downs ....... What is the story repeated? ? Then this is a rake, and if so - if you please, ward No. 6, and not the chairs of the heads of the people's republics ... maybe it’s time to think with your brains?

[ermak.sidorov]

Regions will receive wide powers and may also ask for autonomy.

Yes, not a white root vegetable with a pungent smell ... there were pro-Russian activists in Kharkov, Sumy, Odessa, only they were either slow or poorly armed, they so buried their Bendera men with crushers that they still can’t dig anyone out and DO NOT WANT. ..if you look at February-May, the Benderites are not inferior to the number of processed new Russian regions in Ukraine, or even lead ... who will give pro-Russian people the second time power in the regions ... probably only HUNGER and a general paragraph government agencies

[T486]

I don't believe there have already been agreements and agreements. People (civilians) both died and die. Today I heard on the news: "Three children died in the DPR ...". What arrangements ...? Parashenko a bullet in the head, and preferably two !!!

[brelok]

it's only the beginning! Remember how they tried to disperse the basics? and this is only one battalion, what if everyone is dispersed? There is no money in Ukraine. This is recognized by everyone. Putin seems to have chosen from two evils - there is no need to engage in hat-making. We really do not have enough funds for everything

[Karevik]

I support the author in everything! That blah blah blah. And if you call a spade a spade, then our President passed the Donetsk team on all counts! Then for what so many people have been killed! It turns out that it is we Russia who hope in them and that is why they fought! And now we are the main culprits of the deaths of so many people, giving them hope and leaving them now! There was nothing to start! It turns out that ki like Sobchak and others like her were originally right! Shame on Russia!

[Klim2011]

Valeryanka, or motherwort drink glyadish and let go of a tantrum

[mamont5]

Quote: Andrey Yurievich

yah? tell the states!

And the states did not participate there at all. So these are their problems.

[Alex Nick]

Yes, they have warriors who do not obey anyone. So we'll see later what comes of this.

[nstarinsky]

This whole "peace settlement" smells really bad. The United States just recently admitted that it took part in the change of power. But they did not sit at the negotiating table. Okay - forgive, because Germany and France need to demonstrate to their voters that they do not dance to someone else's guitar. Russia, on the other hand, played here in the honorable role of a direct participant in the conflict, which was constantly denied at the highest level (? !!) The withdrawal of heavy weapons somewhere far into the distance is a thing in itself, seemingly peaceful. But we have already passed this. Foreign Legionnaires is a term for interpreting a completely wild imagination. So many lives were killed during this time! Do they want to regain control of the border? What are these gingerbreads? And most importantly, for what purpose? Fools are no longer here.

[MMX]

I agree. And most importantly, there are already so many people gone. And now they are declaring victoriously: well, it was, they say, what will you do ... The main thing is sanctions (which, as we know, we do not care) that would be lifted.

[fif21]

No agreements will be implemented. Death to the Nazis!

[regdan]

Bullshit all this document. No one will abide by the clauses of this agreement.

[Klim2011]

A bit of humor about the meeting

[reality]

Of all the images of the chariots, the one chosen is ruled by a woman. Bravo)))

[Sunseich]

so from whom the two-headed eagle was drawn ...

[kotan]

As a resident of Donetsk, I don’t believe in the world. Well, 90 percent of Donetsk people too) during the negotiations they fired on the city. After negotiations all night. And even now when I write this I listen to the cannonade. Here is such a world .......

[Magadan]

need a victory, that’s clear.
But so far I don’t see anything criminal in these agreements, except for this fucking point about the control of the border with the Russian Federation by junto-border guards. I am glad that this is only AFTER some constitutional reform there.
And I hope for the speedy creation of the Odessa, Kharkov and other people's republics.
Time does not work on the junta. And the more they mobilize, the worse it is for them - all this horde must be fed and dressed.
There is a war of attrition. So far, in favor of New Russia.

[Koronik]

Well, dear ones, they imagined themselves to be strategists, boilers, environments, destruction. And the old people in the basements, children there, instead of schools and kindergartens, miners and everyone working without salaries and daily under fire. I think that peace is necessary, and then the residents of the districts of Donetsk and Lugansk regions decided by voting how to live and with whom to be friends. (If the opinion has not changed)

[Magadan]

listen, let's just without "child's tears"!

Under this soul-catching platitudes, even more children perish in the terminal!
Or did you forget WHO burned people alive in Odessa ?! And without any Militias and war ?!

We did not imagine ourselves as strategists. There are obvious things for the last downs. And the fact that nothing but Victory will save the inhabitants of Donbass from the junto-satanyug, in my opinion, everyone already understands!

[anfil]

Now the LDNR also needs a truce, since during voluntary mobilization, people who do not hold weapons come and they still need to be taught how to handle them, while in "kuevo", 90 percent of the mobilization is trying to skip.

And the junta’s weapons are already being supplied, but the military headquarters is not asleep.

[Klim2011]

Folk humor

[Serzh73]

Quote: Klim2011

Folk humor

[Roman 11]

Yes, it was a fun scene from a general comedy - as they say, everything is for the front, for victory, and most importantly for the bearded aunts who ordered this performance! There is an impression that dill was taken at least Lugansk, and their commander alone in the universe does not know that part of the army got into the boiler ....... claiming that everything is fine marquise - to see they are eating Chernobyl mushrooms well There are only riddles with the signatures on this letter, ....... in short, the bearded aunts become impudent - soon the Negro will beat the Kremlin with a brow, you need another bowler hat

[pascal309]

I think it’s not so simple. Big politics is being done, and we don’t know much. For example, our management is well aware that Poros will not be able to fulfill half the points, for objective reasons. Here he will be caught not fulfilling the contract. This is no longer necessary for us, but for Europe. Europe’s initiative will be on our side, and we will be right in our actions, and even to what extent we will officially untie our hands. The main events are yet to come, this is not the end !!

[Yves762]

Filkin's letter from the same opera as all sorts of "Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" and others like that.
Arrangements adopted so that there is something to violate.

[wax]

Filkin letters, as you put it, sometimes allow you to save millions (not even thousands) of lives, which is what the Ribbentrop-Molotov Pact allowed to do, because he gave Hitler the opportunity to attack England, and eventually forced England and America to fight with us against their own protege Hitler. And imagine what would happen in a different scenario.

[Yves762]

Quote: Wax

And imagine what would happen in a different scenario.

Otherwise, Hitler would not have seized the industrial potential of Western Europe (the latter did not strongly oppose "seizure"). And I could not use it against the USSR. How much would It save millions of lives ???

[Leonidych]

why are you different .... Russia does not need a part of the outskirts, Russia needs the whole outskirts .... and this is the beginning of the accession of the entire outskirts to Russia ... think deeper ....

[Magadan]

here I agree. The recognition of the DPR / LPR makes it impossible for the further offensive of Novorossiya. I mean, they will then be officially accused of "aggression against sovereign Ukraine."
And in the wording "autonomous regions" - further attacking actions of the Novorossiys - just "continuation of the civil war."
So all sorts of statuses on paper certainly should not strain. The main thing is who has physical power over the territory

[Magadan]

What annoys me the most:
"Restoration of full control over the state border by the government of Ukraine in the entire conflict zone ..."

It is now dill will decide which from Russia to enter New Russia?
- Will the Natsiks now have their bases in the rear of Novorossiya? To help the dill start their next offensive? This time, according to the lightning-fast "Croatian scenario"?
- If shells for BCH are still being brought from Russia (and not produced secretly in the Donbass), then what is it then ?! The plum party defeated the Patriots? Slowly decided to strangle New Russia, leaving without ammunition? So was Surkov there?

The reassuring truth is that this point is being implemented after some constitutional reform in u-Krajina. But still, the feeling is disgusting

And more:
"DISARMAMENT OF ILLEGAL GROUPS"

How to understand? Maybe the Militia is also an "illegal group"? Or does this only apply to foreign troops? Will Motorola be disarmed too?

[tol_oper]

For Kiev, the militia is in any way an illegal military formation, since the DPR and LPR are not recognized by any states and they cannot have an army. And they will insist on its (militia) disarmament.

[saag]

Quote: Magadan

Maybe the Militia is also an "illegal group"?

Yes, from the point of view of the agreement and the recognition that all this is an internal Ukrainian matter, the Armed Forces will be the legitimate armed forces

[Silhouette]

Quote: Magadan

How to understand? Maybe the Militia is also an "illegal group"?

According to the logic of Minsk - yes, of course. Who can tell me why Putin has not officially met with the leaders of the DPR and LPR. For him, Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky are also terrorists? Or consumable?

[saag]

Quote: Silhouette

Or consumable?

This is the most

[Accidentally]

and you listen to John McCain's sworn enemy of Russia- The Minsk agreements will not last a week ...............

[Tamanskiy]

In my opinion, the document was signed only for the sake of signing. It will not actually be executed. The boiler will not lay down its weapons, and the right-wing people do not obey Kiev at all. The network has confirmation of an alternative general staff of "ATO".

[Alexdark]

The bullshit contract and all the agreements. And about Putin's statements about the integrity of the Outskirts, these are just words. Everyone says something, but they are going to do something different. I cannot take responsibility and judge about anything, unlike 80% of those who are here. It's just ridiculous when you read "everything has been leaked, gone, etc." Can I bring you this rope with a soap? It's strange to just hear any analytics or opinion from people who don't know a damn thing (like me) in these delicate and confusing matters. Let's wait, we'll see, we'll see.

[Magadan]

About leaked and lost here they do not say. But we are aware of how MUCH bastards in the Russian government work for the State Department. Or do you doubt it? And how do they, offshore bureaucrats, now kick the Department of State in the ass, demanding action to drain New Russia.
Therefore, it is not necessary for the people to happily harass. Everything must be approached critically, looking for flaws and raising the wave, exposing the likely treacherous steps.
We still can’t do more, anyway, except to form an OPINION

[Man1]

It seems to me that this negotiation process and the threats over new sanctions that were before the start of the negotiations and the same threats from the United States over the supply of weapons, all this is a provocation and a complete divorce from the West. The chances are not great that both sides will completely cease hostilities, and even more so in such a short time, and the West is well aware of this. And if, indeed, within the time period specified in the negotiations, the DBs do not stop, then they will definitely, under the pretext of "non-observance of the Minsk negotiations by Russia, the DPR and LPR," will do their dirty deeds. In the meantime, they pretend to be peacekeepers, you see, "we are so white and fluffy, and they (the Russian Federation and both republics), Kiev, as usual, do not enter there, acted treacherously, and therefore, like, against our own will, we are forced to impose additional sanctions against these scoundrels and weapons to Ukraine. "
Something like that.

[Silhouette]

Quote: mik0588

The main thing:
- Russia has not undertaken any obligations.
- Russia is not recognized as a party to the conflict.
- Russian aggression against Ukraine is not recognized.
- The presence of Russian troops in Ukraine is not condemned.
- There is no requirement to withdraw Russian troops from Ukraine.
- Crimea is not mentioned at all in the adopted documents.

1. Russia was seated at the negotiating table with Ukraine. This is the main thing. The rebels and the government of Ukraine had to agree.
2. Sitting at the negotiating table with Ukraine, Russia has become a de facto conflict party.
3. Having become a party to the conflict, Russia tacitly recognized itself as an aggressor. The negotiations were held in the format "Russia against Ukraine, Germany and France", i.e. - "Russia against Europe", and if we add the United States here, then "Russia against the world."
4. Dear, in order to condemn the presence of Russian troops in Ukraine or to demand their withdrawal, you must first prove their presence. No one has done this yet. Neither Ukraine nor Germany with France.
5. Yes, Crimea is not mentioned, but even this site considers it Ukrainian. Evidence of this is the Ukrainian flag of my nickname. I am in the Crimea.

[tol_oper]

Shame on the site.

[anfil]

Silhouette

1. Russia was seated at the negotiating table with Ukraine. This is the main thing. The rebels and the government of Ukraine had to agree.

According to your theory, it turns out that the paddling pools are not very aggressive, they were also sitting at this table.
Russia sat at this table in order to protect its interests, and not just LDNR!

[Silhouette]

Not at all. Paddlers with Fritz observers.

[Ramzaj99]

Quote: Silhouette

Having sat at the negotiating table with Ukraine, Russia became a party to the de facto conflict. 3. Having become a party to the conflict, Russia secretly declared itself an aggressor.

Stop crying already ....
You did not notice a small thing ...
The fact that the European leaders invited the leaders of the DNRLR to negotiations, thereby recognizing them as a party to the conflict. Let me remind you that before that they were just terrorists.
Another thing is that Parashenko was never able to put them at the negotiating table and this is practically the only thing they could not get him to do, but they were included in the working group, and believe me a lot !!

[Silhouette]

You see what is not. The leaders of the DPR were forced to negotiate in a contact group with some pensioner Kuchka there, and they really and humiliatingly kept them outside the door of negotiations. What was the point in two parallel negotiations? The point is you fight, and we will solve everything for you ourselves .... Some kind of farce.

[chimega]

This is a big policy .... like in chess - pawns beat each other on the board but with the wrong hands ...

[F.Vastag]

Raunchy Truce (not even Peace), which Kiev does not commit to anything (and does not impose any obligations). The states (through the mouth of Psaki) have already stated that in the event of a violation of Minsk-2 by Kiev (Waltzman), the United States will not make any claims (or even more condemnations) to the Ukro-Nazis. You need to fight to the end (after those monstrous atrocities, crimes and atrocities of Ukro-Punishers in Donbass) until Victory. But after the "exposure" (in Minsk) of such a type as Dudayev (Surkov) Aslanbek Andarbekovich ("twisting his arms" to the heads of the DPR and LPR) - it could not have been otherwise. It is no secret that Dudayev-Surkov is closely associated with the Oligarchic elite of Ruins (Akhmetovs and Co.); in the early 2000s, he (Surkov) personally invited such a scumbag as D Korchinsky to "lecture" ("On the war (battles) in the crowd.") "Nashists" on Seliger, and also worked closely with American youth organizations ( "exchanging so to speak (adopting) experience"; about the fraudulent (in the elections to the Duma-11) organized from his submission (in the elections to the Duma-XNUMX) after which he was "asked" from the then post (replacing with Volodin), I generally keep quiet. with the West) will influence decision-making in the Kremlin and Defeat-Raunchy truces - betrayals against the Russians (in the same DNR and LNR) will continue.It is enough just to read how he (his actions and his people) is expressed (even quite recently ) I. Strelkov (who explicitly declares that Surkov acts as an accomplice and agent of influence (Spy) of Valtsman and Co and has long earned the Mazepa Order of Merit for Khazaria-Ukraine) to understand that Dudayev-Surkov is simply Russophobe ( a la Brzezinski), Mra.j and Gni.a Casemate (andthere are a lot of people like him in the Russian government (its Economic Bloc) (since the Yeltsin era)

[Tambov Wolf]

This is already known to the whole world, only here on the site everyone believes in a good king. Then why are the boyars thieves, traitors and agents of the CIA?

[Vitaly Anisimov]

Here is the main result of the Minsk meeting, I think ... the LPR and the DPR nevertheless recognized in fact! Everything else is blah blah blah ..

[mihasik]

Quote: MIKHAN

Here is the main result of the Minsk meeting, I think ...

And I think that the Ukrainian Natsiks, murderers, rapists and just looters from the ass relieved, now they will not put me! After all, one of the conditions of the amnesty is all and all ....

[Oladushkin]

The document was clearly drawn up against Novorossiya; it was not for nothing that the LPR and DPR did not want to sign it at first. It was a little annoying that I saw somewhere that “Putin put pressure on the leaders of the DPR and LPR” and they only signed after that. I think they had a conversation somewhere behind the scenes “for three” and I think Putin reassured them, explaining that this document was initially impossible to implement. And accordingly, complete bullshit. And so we again have more trump cards in our hands - look, we signed all the documents that you approved, and he... (Poroshenko), this bastard, ruined everything again. This will cause even greater confusion in the enemy camp.

[CONTROL]

...did they ask the military? both the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Armed Forces of Ukraine?, not to mention the gangs - I beg your pardon - "territorial battalions of the National Guard... - the Guard, yes!"
The warriors seem to be against it! and even in the best of times they were not too subservient to the “commanders in chief”, and now - to lose such a feeding trough, stop drinking for free, rob with impunity... and what to do with the money squeezed from the “people” to support the ATO? They will ask you to report...and they may convincingly demand it! (to a much smaller extent, but the same thing is present in some places in Novorossiya...).
In any case: it is necessary to help those whose families were destroyed, their houses were bombed, their property was lost, they became disabled, etc. there’s no escape... our guys watched this “sit for 16 hours” and decided: we still have to! Ukraine will not restore anything from what it destroyed in Donbass, it will not help anyone, but we must continue to live...

[sunzhenets]

The Minsk agreement, similar to the Munich agreement!
Much has been said about the fact that Urkaina likes to step on a rake.
Is Minsk-2 not a rake? They put it on Minsk-1, but will they comply with it?
But this really outraged me:
2. Withdrawal of all heavy weapons by both sides to equal distances in order to create a security zone...
- for Ukrainian troops: from the actual line of contact;
- for armed formations of certain areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine from the contact line in accordance with the Minsk Memorandum of September 19, 2014.

That is, away from the Debaltsevo cauldron.
Negotiations with the fascists give them the opportunity to prepare and continue to kill civilians.

[Dragon-y]

Quote: Alexander Romanov

Quote: drop1

However, it seems merged Novorossia ...

Komenty in Russia-Putin leaked New Russia
Komenty in Ukraine-Poroshenko leaked Ukraine
Komenty in Europe -Oland and Merkel merged Ukraine

In Europe they comment incorrectly...
It would be like this:
-Oland and Merkel merged Europe...

[Pafos]

Expensive. Comrades, everyone needs to calm down. No one has leaked anyone :) nothing has changed, gee, since the morning they have been hammering at each other with artillery all the agreements, antlers for visitors, as soon as Ukraine is hit in the face by the militia, the Ukrainians immediately run to Minsk to the Necro-African in the White House. Remember one thing, this war is going to last for a long time, I live in a combat zone and I know what I’m talking about, in order to take control of the border Svidomo needs to disperse 100 thousand warriors of Novorossiya, shish crests, what will our military registration and enlistment offices be jam-packed with those who want a truce, Ukrainians need to see someone serious, they’ve been squeezed into a cauldron once They are trying to pull it out in such a way that the skin is not damaged. Why did the pig run to Minsk? Jumping? Before this, the boilers were simply drained, well, by the 15th the boiler will be finished off like in Ilovaisk :) our cause is just, victory will be ours!

[evgmiz]

Quote: tol

Just like 1 Chechen, only ours on the offensive, do not allow the enemy to regroup, and pull them back
So here, just surrounded, in the boiler and immediately Merkel and Oland arrived

...And our super-diplomats immediately gave them the militia, and the whole of Novorossia, in full, apparently counting on certain bonuses. Of course, not for the people of Donbass or the Russian Federation.

[Pinochetus]

Eh...Vladimir Vladimirovich, he extended his little hand to you, if only you could give him seoi-nage at that moment...but with fine-tuning so that he doesn’t kill himself, I know you can....

[Captain45]

Personally, I see the situation as follows: after the September truce, who started large-scale military operations in January? Ukrovoyaks. In response to the shelling of the Armed Forces, they began to move the border of the military base away from the cities, in order to at least reduce the possibility of artillery shelling and moved it back, so that the Debaltsevo cauldron was formed. But I must admit There wasn’t enough strength for what was planned, initially they planned to carry out an encirclement in the Svetlogorsk region, but it didn’t work out, and there was also limited strength for the resulting cauldron and its liquidation, but nevertheless there was an effect. It wasn’t the militia and Russia that asked for a truce, and the United States through gay European politicians. Consequently, everything returned to approximately the same point as in September, the only difference is the borders. This will be followed by 2-3 months of relative truce, during which both sides will build up their armed forces, and in May, when the steppe It will dry out, the green paint will go, everything will start all over again. It is possible that on May 9 the Ukrovoyaks will start a new war in order to ruin the holiday. Yesterday there was an article where they dismantled WWII boilers in the Donbass. So, if we consider the database in the Donbass by analogy Since the Second World War, then Stalingrad (boilers) has already happened, in the summer there will be the Battle of Kursk and a radical turning point, and by the fall we must wait for 10 Stalinist attacks (Kharkov, Mariupol, Dnepropetrovsk, etc.) for the final expulsion of the invaders from their native land. Time is working for us, people in ruin are slowly coming to their senses. Now for the IMF loan they will again begin to pinch the people in terms of pensions, benefits, housing and communal services, and the Ukrainians will hang themselves for pennies. They will begin to be indignant. Moreover, in the summer it is always easier to hold rallies. Sowing this year in 404 countries is really it won’t, but it wants to eat. By the fall, the protest will grow, which, coupled with the blows of the Supreme People’s Council, will lead to a change of power. That’s how I see it. And in general, we need to tune in to a long-term resolution of this situation. They will gather in Minsk more than once , the Normandy format, they will take a long time and tediously to sort out the situation. Russia will announce a bunch more sanctions, “Mistrals” will beckon. And again there will be cries that “Putins leaked”, “sold”. I just want to note that when drained, everything disappears very quickly, who doesn’t believe it, he can pull the toilet handle and make sure. And sell it? But who will buy it, I mean, Donbass. So calm down, comrades. We need to prepare ourselves for a marathon, not a sprint race.

[saag]

Quote: Captain45

They will begin to be indignant. Moreover, it is always easier to hold rallies in the summer. There will be no real sowing season this year in the 404th country, but there will be nothing to eat. By the fall, the protest will grow, which, coupled with the blows of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, will lead to a change of power. This is how I see it .

It’s an illusion, everyone said this last year and nothing happened, so it will be this year too

[Roman 11]

There is another, to put it mildly, oddity in this paragraph: “the withdrawal of the listed heavy weapons (blah blah blah) no later than the second day......... Maybe this performance should have been staged somehow simpler?? For example; part of the NATO military fell into the cauldron, they need to be quietly brought out, don’t think anything bad about us, we are not fools, we will pay Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky as they should Or has everyone forgotten how about a year ago Strelkov took NATO prisoners in Slavyansk??

[Igor Pushkino]

But what about the Debaltsevo cauldron? Even here it’s not clear: if they gave the go-ahead for a ceasefire from 00-00? So in these two days they will finish cooking it?
But in general: it didn’t work out well. They didn’t really decide anything. Everything is still the same. Something dark is happening in Debaltsevo.

[_umka_]

You can’t fool Putin; he doesn’t look at his own feet, but at tomorrow.

[Moncyber]

Not sure about this. It seems to me that you deify him.

[ivan.ru]

Quote: Silhouette

I am still at a loss.
Why did Russia allow a losing format of negotiations "three against one" in Minsk? In fact, negotiations were conducted by two parties - Russia and Ukraine with Germany and France.
Why did Russia thereby become a party to the conflict?
Complete loss to Russia at the diplomatic level. Diplomacy only harms the Russian interests and the interests of the rebels, which were not even allowed to the negotiation table.

Russia not only became a party to the conflict. It is the only party whose official representative, an entire ambassador, signed this document. On the Ukrainian side, it was signed by some pensioner who does not have an official position, and some ambassador, judging by the name, Finnish. He is here with what side? Holland and Merkel are not in business at all. So, they deceived Vova with all his cunning plans, sign and carry out. And regarding the fulfillment of the agreement, a paper that they are not going to fulfill, they do not accept for 16 hours

[Mestny]

Quote: MMX

Now experts will come running and will say what kind of "jewelry work" and "brilliant party" our Putin and Co. have done. They say everyone was killed by this agreement and put Ukraine and the United States under responsibility ...

Well, so far only yours have come running and howling about how Putins leaked.

[apro]

Well, they jumped, if what they signed there embodies Putin’s influence in Ukraine, there will be a blow among those who sympathize with reunification. As I understand it, Putin wants Donetsk to digest Kiev peacefully, but the other way around won’t work, the partners respect the rights but their own rights, as is Ukraine’s sovereignty over Donbass? Why did they fight? Why did they reassure people? Or is this a provocation and Putin is involved in it? Peace is possible only if the sovereignty of Donbass is recognized.

[denk20]

Results. In 17 hours, the Germans and French were put in their place and deprived of the right to even think about any territorial claims in Ukraine. A document was signed, which, in essence, talks about the conditions under which peacekeeping missions of the two brotherly Ukrainian peoples will be introduced. Compliance with the points of the agreement guarantees a fairly rapid restoration of the Ukrainian economy and its withdrawal from the control and management of overseas partners. Well, in the campaign against Kyiv, after the signing of this document, it will not be the DLPR’s fault.

[Thompson]

Quote: drop1

Quote: Letun

In general, I do not see any advantages other than a ceasefire (which will not be respected) from this agreement.

However, it seems merged Novorossia ...

Exactly - They leaked it anyway! Tough!
Our elite Traded their bright future for the lives of the children of Novorossiya...
In principle, what can be expected from those who silently watch how the results of the Second World War are distorted?
If they don’t care about those 27 million, what are thousands to them!?
Insatiable bitches!

[Artybyrd]

All the losers, a very strong surprise awaits you soon

[Moncyber]

No matter how negative the surprise would be...

[eztaeznii]

Only Russia is the guarantor of the existence of the DPR and LPR. And here there is a real feeling that you are in trouble. This morning from the fat-assed burgher - new sanctions, the dog is also on horseback. And in my soul it’s like a hundred cats don’t give a shit! But... Some facts suggest that “not everything is so simple.” . And, guys, GDP doesn’t seem to have “let us down” yet. So I think we need to wait. Although my soul feels lousy!

[ivan.ru]

Quote: Oladushkin

The document was clearly drawn up against Novorossiya; it was not for nothing that the LPR and DPR did not want to sign it at first. It was a little annoying that I saw somewhere that “Putin put pressure on the leaders of the DPR and LPR” and they only signed after that. I think they had a conversation somewhere behind the scenes “for three” and I think Putin reassured them, explaining that this document was initially impossible to implement. And accordingly, complete bullshit. And so we again have more trump cards in our hands - look, we signed all the documents that you approved, and he... (Poroshenko), this bastard, ruined everything again. This will cause even greater confusion in the enemy camp.

Poroshenko did not sign any documents, there will be no demand from him. And to whom are you going to make excuses - look, we are good, we signed the documents, forgive us. So what? Forget everything, abandon everyone and leave, taking the right position? But it looks like That’s what it’s all about, they just choose a pose so that Obama doesn’t feel too tired, and so that Putin is heroic enough

[S_Baykala]

Quote: Dangerous

Dadad, blablabla, Putin caved in, Putin passed Novorossia, etc. ... And what did he have to sign ?? First, they and Lavrov initially said that they recognize the integrity of Ukraine and Lugansk and Donbass will be in Ukraine. Secondly, the main task now for everyone is a ceasefire. It’s fun sitting at the computer to read how many tanks they burned and put down the Natsiks, and civilians, especially those who are now in the midst of the confrontation, are not laughing at all. Yesterday was a man, today is a homeless person, they don’t think about them here? Thirdly, the militia at least writes about double-digit casualties for ukrov daily, also not omnipotently. Look, Zakharchenko even went to extreme mobilization measures, and the offensive near Lugansk and Mariupol got stuck. So let them stop firing first, and then, as Lavrov said, they agree directly between themselves

Finally saw this comment. I'm not the only one who thinks so.
People, think about it: Novorossiysk people are waging war. Tens of thousands of their relatives and friends died. They have nothing much to fear anymore, and people who went through the war and are now living in it are much more determined and angrier than ordinary people. If they signed the agreement, they know better, which means they know something we don’t know. Don’t consider them dumber than you, they see all the pros and cons themselves. Maybe they need a break now more than anyone else?

[saag]

Quote: S_Baykala

Tens of thousands of their relatives and friends died. They have nothing much to fear anymore, and people who went through the war and are now living in it are much more determined and angrier than ordinary people. If they signed the agreement, they know better, which means they know something we don’t know. Don’t consider them dumber than you, they see all the pros and cons themselves.

Yeah, yesterday I saw Lavrov on TV saying something like the following - “we must achieve a cessation of hostilities and a political dialogue must begin between Donbass and Kiev.” Why didn’t this happen during the Second World War - a cessation of hostilities and the beginning of a political dialogue between Stalin and Hitler?

[ma_shlomha]

Stand! Hands behind your back! Face the wall!

[Man1]

It’s interesting whether Putin himself knows how unhappy the people are with these negotiations. I would like to know.

[Dean]

All these negotiations were probably needed only to get the troops out of the cauldron. This is where all the fuss between Hollande and Merkel began. and then everything will go as usual. The only consolation is Zakharchenko’s phrase that there will be no Minsk-3. Well, the position of Russia... is the position of the weak, who is forced to yield to external pressure.

[ivan.ru]

Quote: _umka_

You can’t fool Putin; he doesn’t look at his own feet, but at tomorrow.

it’s easy and sweet to tell the truth. And also, he is the best friend of railway workers, more precisely a railway worker, and even more precisely, Yakunin

[SOB]

I agree, wipe everyone’s snot.

[ivan.ru]

Quote: Captain45

Time is on our side, people in ruins are slowly coming to their senses. Now, for the IMF loan, they will again begin to pinch the people in terms of pensions, benefits, housing and communal services, and the Ukrainians will hang themselves for pennies. They will begin to be indignant. Moreover, it is always easier to hold rallies in the summer. Sowing season this year 404 the country won’t really have anything to eat, but it doesn’t want to eat. So by the fall the protest will grow

Remember the 90s here, the IMF, housing and communal services, pensions and benefits. Why the hell did they protest then? And in Ukraine, exactly the same people will remain silent and wait for favors from the authorities. So time doesn’t work for us, nothing works for us at all

[iury.vorgul]

The results of the negotiations leave a very strange impression. One can only hope that VVP and Lavrov are not boys after all and could not allow themselves to be deceived. We'll see.

[Dejavu]

Guys, stop whining about plums. For 15 hours people talked about something. About what? - WE DO NOT KNOW. But certainly not about any borders or other little things that can be discussed in 10 minutes. They were probably talking about a global change of helmsmen and further action plans. There is an opinion that the EU realized that they had them without Vaseline and some time ago they were offered to slightly change sides. The USA is now being gently pushed out on all fronts, from China to Latin America. True, slowly, but with enviable consistency. Parashenka in general is a random puppet at this celebration of life, representing in this case a technical character personifying the USA, whom no one gave a damn about because he is nobody and nothing, but is needed for the format. Therefore, relax. We will know the true results in a year or two. Europe will show who it is with and then everything will become clear. For now, let’s trust our president.

[Tanechka-clever]

“Ensure pardon and amnesty by enacting a law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with the events that took place in certain areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine.

Apparently, they are trying to push through this point for the release of Nadezhda Savchenko, who in Russia is accused of involvement in the deaths of Russian journalists."

The release of Savchenko... will demonstrate to the Russian community WHO IS THE BOSS OF THE HOUSE, and who WE are, or rather, where our state independence is.

And in general... EVERYTHING will be clear... SOON, although even today much is clear - the wait is NOT LONG.

[Uzzy]

For some reason I expected such an outcome... The agreement is absolutely raw and appears like a dark forest. And because already signed, the outcome looks somewhat gloomy. So much effort, so much blood...
Maybe too pessimistic, but so far I can’t get any other meaning from this. Let's watch what happens and hope for the best!

[Bubyr]

I don’t see the point in this “document” Everything will be decided on the battlefield!

[ma_shlomha]

Porsche, during the “4+1” negotiations to resolve the situation, left the hall where the leaders had gathered. Alone, he went to another room of the Palace of Independence, where negotiations are taking place.

For what? Fear for your destiny?

Exclusive footage behind the scenes.

[tolancop]

I read the text of the agreements. The first impression is unpleasant and big concessions to the “enemy”.
Then I read it more carefully, comprehending each point. Pessimism has diminished, although there has not been much optimism either.
IMHO, not everything is so scary and creepy... The document, as far as I understand, provides for the step-by-step implementation of points: until the 1st is completed, we do not move on to the 2nd. There are many points. Knowing the ability of ukrov to fulfill concluded agreements, I believe that the actual implementation of the items will not even reach the middle of the list... Incl. no one leaked anyone.

It’s disgusting to read the pseudo-patriotic cries “we must drive ukrov to Kyiv.” maybe it should. The big question is what forces (and at what cost!) will be able to capture large territories. And after the capture, an interesting question will arise: how to KEEP all this farm? Who and how will establish peaceful life in the “liberated” territories? A lot of competent managers will be needed. And apparently, in the territory NOW controlled by the DPR and LPR, this is not all right. If you bite off too much of a piece, you might choke.
Incl. No matter how sad it is, there will be no quick resolution to the situation. It would be good if it took ten years.

z.y. Out of curiosity, I looked into the “enemy camp”, at “Censor”, how do they evaluate the agreements? Not everyone believes that Poroshenko “leaked” Donbass, but there is definitely no talk of “victory”...
Incl. wait and see.

[Nehist]

Brief and to the point!!! Negotiations are about nothing! Well, the ceasefire will not be observed. And this puts an end to everything else! All this is reminiscent of our counter-terrorism operation in Chechnya. The APU in the boiler has been saved... In general, I’ll go and check the emergency suitcase, I feel it will soon come in handy

[Sunseich]

hmmm...sad...
I'll shut up until May 9th. And then we'll see. Unless, of course, someone declares war on us.
Should I dry some crackers? Or read on the Internet how Kalashnikov is going?... Or maybe look at the theory of satellite communications?
what a choice there is, otherwise some people are bored here

[anfil]

It’s not clear here, the militia should withdraw heavy guns from the line of September 19, does this turn out to be further than intended for the junta?

- for Ukrainian troops: ot of the actual line of contactI;
- for armed formations of certain regions of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine (oh, this political correctness... - author's note): from the contact line according to the Minsk Memorandum of September 19, 2014.

[Kovalik]

but after the negotiations they immediately decided to give the Mistrals back. That’s why the Frenchman came.
Yes, he put the blame on people’s sacrifices! The main thing is not to pay a fine for the boats!

[sverdlovsk]

Well, what did this give you???? Sanctions continue and new ones are introduced! They don’t give back the Mistrals, and neither do they give away the money for the penalty! The successes of the Armed Forces of Novorossiya have been undermined. And it was worth it!!!!

[Black]

Quote: vaf

under these....."papers2 there is the signature of the President of the Russian Federation.

The “all-breakers” are simply burning!!! Where have you seen the signatures of at least one president, especially ours???
They behave like sperm at the final stage of anal sex.

[Londa]

Everything according to Lenin is one step back, two steps forward!

[Bae likhte]

like a knife to the heart, that last time we signed agreements during the success of the militias, and now. disgusting!

[tank64rus]

It is unlikely that anything will come of this “truce”. Even Merkel and Hollande lost their smiles towards the end. Keep Surkov and others like him away from power. After all, in London they only threatened to check the money “acquired by back-breaking labor,” when all the thieves in power began to rush around. This scum, led by the hunchback, already destroyed Russia in the 90s. If you carefully read the document, one point contradicts another when they are implemented. As for the militia, there are about 20 thousand people who lost loved ones in the war and know how to fight. They understand perfectly well what will happen to them and their loved ones if the SBU and the Right Sector appear there. Amnesty, don't make the children laugh. And what will happen in Russia itself? If we think that we have forgotten “privatization,” then we are very mistaken. But if direct betrayal is added to this, the consequences can be unpredictable.

[Michael_59]

Quote: Woolfy

I think that you just need to turn off the TV and not watch the press until the 15th. As they say in Odessa... We'll see!

I would like to turn on the TV on the 15th, and there is “Swan Lake”... On all channels))

[_Krechet_]

How I see the situation:
Poroshenko was explained the situation, reminded of the fate of Yanukovych, and offered guarantees and refuge in the event of an aggravation and overthrow/persecution by the Right Sector. He (Poroshenko) must understand that the heating of society, in such conditions as in Ukraine, will sooner or later lead to an explosion. And he sits on the drain valve...
Based on this, I consider him sincerely interested in cooperation with Putin/Merkel/Hollande and objectively aimed at a peaceful solution.

[dmb]

Dear A. Volodin. Exactly. Finally, from bravura articles with a set of slogans, you move on to analytics. I wanted to add point 10 to your comment about the detachments of the republics, but I have already been beaten to it several times. And it’s good about implementation. It seems that this concept will now be mentioned by our leaders in all speeches, including those dedicated to increasing milk yield and making chapels.

[zzpop]

Here's an ally! Prove to me that this is a montage...Video: Poroshenko complained to Lukashenko after the Minsk negotiations
I couldn’t attach it, but you’ll find it... Poroshenko says: VVP is playing unfairly and dirtyly, and the ally says in response: I know, everyone there understood it...

[Tima]

Both Lukashenko and Parashenko are alike!