Iskander-M vs Pershing-2

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Iskander-M vs Pershing-2


The modern Iskander-M and the resurrected mobile missile system MGM-31C Pershing II. At first glance, they have nothing in common: the newest OTRK with a conventional warhead and a medium-range strategic missile created during the Cold War era.

But this is only at first glance ...

Both “toys” brought a lot of problems, horrifying opponents on both “sides of the barricades”. Both were created in difficult times with the hope of changing the traditional view of database maintenance. Both have a dismal reputation - A whole squall of international scandals is associated with the deployment of Iskander and Pershing.

Despite the difference in age and purpose, both missiles are very close in size (length / max. Diameter of the hull: Iskander-M - 7,2 / 0,92 m, Pershing-2 - 10,6 / 1,0 m), and the twofold difference in their starting weight (3,8 versus 7,4 tons) does not matter much from the point of view of their basing. Both complexes have the proper degree of mobility on the ground (“Iskander-M” - self-propelled launcher with 8x8 wheel formula, “Pershing-2” - semitrailer, truck tractor). And equally transportable by rail, sea and aviation by transport.

Despite a threefold difference in flight range (1770 vs. 500 km), the radius of impact of both ballistic missiles is quite large in the scale of compact Europe.



When developing both systems, accuracy was set at the forefront.

By virtue of its conventional equipment, the Iskander-M has the ability to directly hit the target (deviations in 5 ... 7 meters are compensated by the power of the warhead).

“Pershing-2” was intended for a surgical exact “decapitating” strike on the most important military infrastructure of the USSR: headquarters, bunkers, protected command posts, communications centers, etc. Hence the fierce pursuit of a radical decrease in the QUO.

As a result, both missile systems were equipped with a maneuvering head, and, by virtue of their exceptionally high performance characteristics, they were recognized as masterpieces in the field of rocket production.

And now two irreconcilable superheros suddenly got a chance to meet in battle:

“It is important to force Russia to return to the execution of the INF Treaty. For this, the US has not only diplomatic, but economic and even military response options in the reserve. ”

- Rose Gottemeller, Deputy State Secretary for Arms Control and International Security, December 10 2014

“You can, of course, return to the 80 years, deploy cruise missiles or Pershing in Europe. Now the Americans do not have them, but it seems that this is what is going on. Only the deployment of medium-range missiles in Europe can be regarded as the “military methods” of the answer. ”

- From an interview with the former head of the international contractual administration of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, Lieutenant-General of the Reserve Evgeny Buzhinsky.

Iskander the Great Warrior



It will fly from Kaliningrad to Warsaw in 2 min 22 seconds. During this time, NATO naval will not even have time to brush their teeth ...

Most of the flight path of the Iskander-M runs in shaky layers of the atmosphere at altitudes from 20 to 50 km (apogee). In the most neglected areas of atmospheric space, inaccessible to most of the modern air defense systems.

The speed of the warhead at the moment the main engine is shut off exceeds six speeds of sound.

The warhead is made with the technology of “stealth”. Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without aerodynamic surfaces of a large area. According to Western sources, on the outside of the warhead is additionally covered with radio-absorbing ferromagnetic paint. All this creates additional difficulties for its detection and interception by enemy air defense / missile defense systems.

Seven types of combat units for a wide range of tasks: cluster, high-explosive fragmentation, penetrating - weighing from 480 to 700 kg.



Maneuvering warhead with correction on all segments of the flight. The system of gas rudders in rarefied atmospheric layers and deflected rudders in the final part of the trajectory. Intensive maneuvering with 20-30g overloads at the terminal stage of flight is applied. There is a possibility of a vertical dive to the target at an angle close to 90 ° at a speed of 700-800 m / s. The KVO of the Iskander-M warhead reaches 5 ... 7 meters.

Mixed guidance system according to the inertial navigation system (INS) at the initial and middle part of the flight and optical sensors (DSMAC type) at the terminal stage. The issue of equipping warheads with a GPS / GLONASS based guidance system is being considered.

There is a project to equip warheads with its own EW system for the production of active jamming of the enemy’s air defense radar systems.



Its flight characteristics are on the verge of the capabilities of Western air defense / missile defense systems. High accuracy, coupled with a powerful missile warhead (in 1,5-2 times heavier than the Tomahawk warhead) allow the Iskander-M to change the “game conditions” by changing the situation in the theater of operations. Command posts and bases of the enemy, hangars, fuel storages, clusters of armored and aviation equipment, air defense missile systems, artillery batteries, bridges and power plants: all this will be subject to inevitable total destruction in the first minutes of the war.

“Seven minutes of flight to Moscow ...”

... Touching the stars at an altitude of 300 km, the warhead was rapidly returning to the atmosphere. In the depths of the body, reliably protected from heat, cold and overloads, methodically ticked off the seconds on-board computer ... 428, 429, 430 - the Karman line was passed. It's time! Guided by accelerometer and gyroscopic data, the Pershing-2 warhead was deployed in space perpendicular to the fall path. Brakes! Brakes! Plasma streams shreds off the slippery surface of the hull and are carried away into the purple mist of the stratosphere. At first, weak and discharged, the atmosphere is already confidently whistling overboard, swaying “canoes” in their streams, risking to defy the air of the ocean.



At an altitude of 15 km, the Pershing-2 extinguished speed to 2-3 speeds of sound, the INS once again oriented the warhead properly, and an exciting action began. The radar of the RADAG system came to life under the ablative plastic fairing. The warhead received an annular image of the underlying relief due to scanning around a vertical axis with an angular velocity of 2 rev / sec. Four reference images of the target area for different heights, recorded in the form of a matrix, each cell of which corresponded to the brightness of a given area in the selected radio wave range, were stored in the onboard computer's memory. Comparing the data obtained with the radar maps stored in the memory, the warhead determined its current position and the error of the ANN. Correction of the combat unit at trans-atmospheric altitudes was carried out using jet engines on compressed air; in the atmosphere - aerodynamic surfaces with hydraulic drive.

Having completed its task, the RADAG system was shut off at an altitude of about 1 km. Having received the last corrective impulse, the warhead swooped along a ballistic trajectory, conducting a point destruction of the intended target.

The small, deadly masterpiece of the Martin Marietta company dismayed the entire Soviet generals and party elite of the USSR. In the case of the outbreak of war, the Persing-2 MRSD “knocked out” in a few minutes all the most important military and civilian infrastructure in the territory of the European part of the USSR. There was no way to defend against a terrible threat. Nuclear parity has been broken.


Flight Path "Pershing-2"


By December 1985, MGM-108C Pershing II launchers were deployed in Germany. The effect of this was comparable to the current location of the Iskander-M OTRK in the Kaliningrad region. An international scandal flared up, which further cooled relations between the USSR and the USA.

The next few years, the country was looking for a way out of this situation. Neither side wanted to compromise. Unable to compete with the accuracy of its “Pershing-2” missiles, the Soviet Union, in retaliation, continued to deploy the PCM-10 “Pioneer” medium-range missiles (circular deviation from the target ± 550 meters against 30 m in “Pershing-2”) with the intention to disperse the grouping of NATO troops with solid thermonuclear fire. Each “Pioneer” carried three RGCH IN with a power of 150 kt against a monoblock “Pershing-2” warhead of low power (from 5 to 80 kt).


SS-20 Saber (RSD-10 “Pioneer”) at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington. To his right is baby “Pershing-2”

It all ended in 1987 with the signing of a treaty on the elimination of short and medium-range missiles (INF). By the summer of 1989, all of the “Pershing-2” missiles were removed from combat duty in Europe. Recycling took another few years, by burning at the stand of solid-fuel engines of both stages. Thus, the last “Pershing-2” was burned in 1991 year.

Of particular interest in this stories cause the technical moments of the American rocket. Such as a warhead targeting system: a primitive retro-electronics allowed to realize the incredibly small (even by today's standards) value QUO. Or a radiotransparent plastic radome of the radar antenna, which withstood heating of hundreds of degrees when the warhead entered the dense words of the atmosphere at eight speeds of sound.



“Pershing-2” has sunk into oblivion, taking its deserved place in the ranking of the most terrible inventions in history. And it was extremely unpleasant to hear about the possibility of its reincarnation using modern technologies.
154 comments
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  1. +10
    9 February 2015 07: 26
    Well, as I understand it, we have a good answer to cool the hot heads of the RS-26 Boundary which, along a flat trajectory, covers the whole old Europe
    1. +9
      9 February 2015 07: 57
      The fact of the matter is that only Europe, and America, as always, will dry out of the water
      1. +1
        9 February 2015 08: 08
        he will get from the Far East to America, he has the option to shoot at a distance of less than 5500 km, but the basis is work at ranges of more than 5500 km.
        1. +1
          9 February 2015 09: 55
          Quote: just explo
          he has the option to shoot at a distance of less than 5500 km

          "Option" is like OPA! and another 5000 km. flew on parole?
          1. gjv
            +3
            9 February 2015 11: 39
            Quote: just EXPL
            from the Far East to America, he has the option to shoot at a distance of less than 5500 km, but the basis is work at ranges of more than 5500 km

            Quote: Nayhas
            "Option" is like OPA! and another 5000 km. flew on parole?

            Why is it - "Option" is like OPA! There have been launches. Plesetsk - Kura (5740 km). Kapustin Yar - Sary-Shagan (2000 km). Here is the approximate range of "parole". It remains to decide where from the Far East "to talk honestly", ie. how mobile the installation is. For example, this route Providence - Chicago (5740 km). But at 2000 km from Providence it is more difficult to find an interesting route. For example, Gakon is only 1410 km. Could the RS-26 come so close?
            1. -9
              9 February 2015 12: 16
              Quote: gjv
              After all, there were launches. Plesetsk - Kura (5740 km). Kapustin Yar - Sary-Shagan (2000 km)

              If only in your imagination ...
              Even if we do not take into account the limitations of the INF Treaty, physically, rockets of the same size as 9M723 and 9M728 will not be able to cover the distance of 5500 km.
              1. gjv
                +4
                9 February 2015 13: 17
                Quote: Nayhas
                If only in your imagination ... purely physically rockets of the same size as 9M723 and 9M728 will not be able to cover the distance of 5500 km.

                Eugene, read carefully, without imagination. In comments from bmv04636 и just exp it was not about 9M723 and 9M728, and about the desire to respond using PC-26 Frontier. Hence my koment on your OPA!
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. +10
                9 February 2015 13: 42
                Quote: Nayhas
                If only in your imagination ...


                There are no fantasies. On the Frontier, the data is classified, but the good old "weaving" UR-100N UTTH shot in real life at a maximum of 11000 km and minimum less than 1000km this is no longer a secret.
                On October 26, 1977, flight design tests of the 15A35 missile with improved performance characteristics (UR-100N UTTH) began on Baikonur. This time they were carried out in full. A total of 68 test launches of the advanced missile were performed between September 28, 1977 and July 26, 1979. All launches during the LCI were carried out: in the Kura area, in the Aquatoria area (for maximum range), in the Kzyl area -Tu " (for a minimum range of about 1000 km).

                link

                the minimum range at which an ICBM of the Topol M type, YARS or a small-sized Rubezh is capable of hitting a target with a given CEP / data error of a ballistic computer / is approximately within 1000 km. Anything less you can close the OTRK. Therefore, Rubezh and in the future "Barguzin" with a range of over 5000 km will be able to solve the tasks of the MRBM formally without being such.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        9 February 2015 09: 19
        yes no and there are light elves too
        1. +6
          9 February 2015 10: 20
          Goblins, buddy, goblins .. what, to the demon, elves))))
          1. 0
            9 February 2015 11: 59
            sorry quotes forgot to put litter
      3. +8
        9 February 2015 09: 44
        For this, there are governors, boreas, poplars, blue stains and other carriers of good, light and warmth to the friendly American people.
        1. +4
          9 February 2015 20: 49
          Quote: Nick888
          For this, there are governors, boreas, poplars, blue stains and other carriers of good, light and warmth to the friendly American people.

          There, Yellowstone began to act again, as Vesti FM reported today, if it breaks out, then half of the US will be negative, the whole world will have a nuclear winter. Personally, I'm ready to live for a couple of years without summer, and to stock up on food.
          1. +2
            10 February 2015 03: 57
            You probably think nuclear winter is a couple of years without summer ..? We need to teach the materiel !!!!
      4. Nik S.U.
        +1
        9 February 2015 12: 14
        We have a Sarmat in store for the USA. In which 2/3 of the flight pass along a flat trajectory, plus the warhead hypersound
      5. The comment was deleted.
    2. +21
      9 February 2015 08: 16
      Well, something Oleg Kaptsov completely hit yellowness ...
      Quote: Oleg Kaptsov
      The small deadly masterpiece of the Martin Marietta firm confused the entire Soviet generals and the party elite of the USSR.
      Before the arrival of the labeled one, no one was swept away.

      Of course, these Pershing were somewhat unpleasant, but honestly they didn’t.
      To begin with, the declared maximum range of 1770 km (there were really no launches beyond 1400 km) was still lacking from the territory of West Germany to Moscow.
      Let us continue by the fact that, in the event of the beginning (or strong suspicion of the beginning) of a big mess, the Oka complexes from the territory of the German Democratic Republic and Czechoslovakia perfectly beat out.
      Quote: Oleg Kaptsov
      “Pershing 2” has sunk into oblivion, taking its deserved place in the ranking of the most terrible inventions in history.
      Oleg, excuse me, when they wrote, didn’t you forget to wear diapers?

      The article is another flight of fantasies of Oleg Kaptsov.
      It is impossible to compare Iskander and Pershing-2, if only for the reason that they belong to different classes (up to 500 and more than 500 km)
      The article is a solid fat minus.
      1. gjv
        +4
        9 February 2015 10: 33
        Quote: Wheel
        Of course, these Pershinges were somewhat unpleasant, but honestly they didn’t do the weather. To begin with, the declared maximum range of 1770 km (there were really no launches further than 1400 km) was still missing from the territory of West Germany to Moscow.

        The article "6 Pershings Strike Targets In Atlantic Tests" (March 25, 1987 By John J. Glisch of The Sentinel Staff) stated that 6 missiles launched from Cape Canaveral: LC16 "during heavy rains, flawlessly passed through the clouds and landed on undefined targets in the ocean about 1200 miles (1931 km).
        With such a range (if not flooded) they could get it! From Schnackenburg (Lower Saxony) to the Kremlin 1710 km. From Waldkirchen (Bavaria), they could also reach the western regions of Moscow. So not everything was so cloudless!
        1. +2
          10 February 2015 08: 57
          Quote: gjv
          The article "6 Pershings Strike Targets In Atlantic Tests" (March 25, 1987 By John J. Glisch of The Sentinel Staff) stated that 6 missiles launched from Cape Canaveral: LC16 "during heavy rains, flawlessly passed through the clouds and landed on undefined targets in the ocean about 1200 miles (1931 km).

          Americans from the very beginning of the ebony with Pershig-2 were shamelessly bluffing.
          To begin with, all launches over a distance of more than 1400 km were made with a lightweight mass-scale warhead model (this is so familiar with the Trident-2 example laughing ) With a weighted penetrating warhead, the range was generally barely 1000 km.
          As for the mentioned launches, there was not a song, but a whole hymn.
          I don’t know who there even thought up to launch missiles with radar guidance in the ocean, where there are no landmarks that you can catch on, but this was done ....
          Interestingly, the target area had an uncharacteristic size of 50x250 miles (usually limited to a square of up to 100x100), and the far end was located at a distance of 1200 miles from Canaveral, but warhead falls were noted at the near end.
          There was no need to talk about any accuracy, at least one blank fell not far from our observer vessel, which was naturally outside the "forbidden square", and the self-destruction of another blank was also noted.
          However, "landed on unspecified targets in the ocean about 1,200 miles away." laughing
          I must say that the yusers did not lie much here, because "unspecified targets", they are "undefined targets" anywhere.
          They only missed one thing: '' If the question is, 'Are we trying to send somebody a message?' the answer is no, '' Harris said. `` We did not come here because of what's going on in Geneva. ''

          In general, those launches allowed us to work out reliable registration of launches from distances from 500 to 2500 km and tracking the entry of warheads on a downward path.
          Perhaps the site has direct participants in that event, it would be interesting to hear them.
          1. -1
            10 February 2015 10: 30
            Quote: Wheel
            To begin with, all launches over a distance of more than 1400 km were made with a lightweight mass-scale warhead model (this is so familiar with the Trident-2 example

            Link lead you naturally shy
            Quote: Wheel
            with a lightweight mass-scale mock warhead (this is so familiar with the Trident-2

            Do you think domestic missiles set range records with a full set of warheads?

            Moreover, even with max. throwing weight Trident-2 flight range was amazing. About 8 thousand km - none of his peers could do it (with 2,8 tons)
            Quote: Wheel
            The users did not lie too much, because "unspecified targets", they are "undefined targets" anywhere.

            RADAG is useless over the ocean
            The water is the same everywhere
            1. +2
              10 February 2015 10: 57
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Link lead you naturally shy

              Here you got me. laughing
              I don’t have enough skills to build a link to the reports on my desk in those days. laughing hi
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Do you think domestic missiles set range records with a full set of warheads?

              Now I do not know.
              Previously, the real range for each warhead was indicated.
              We were rather understated than exaggerated.
              Hmm, and let's get to you, as cultured people?
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Moreover, even with max. throwing weight Trident-2 flight range was amazing. About 8 thousand km - none of his peers could do it (with 2,8 tons)

              To whom amazed?
              Specialists just took note, nothing more.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. +7
        9 February 2015 14: 09
        Quote: Wheel
        It is impossible to compare Iskander and Pershing-2, if only for the reason that they belong to different classes (up to 500 and more than 500 km)


        Yes, we like to compare warm with soft. laughing In order to compare, you need to know what technical specification was issued for the product and what performance characteristics it should correspond to. And this is unknown to us. The same appearance of the Mace is kept secret because the appearance can be used to determine the type of stage of breeding warheads. which means, according to the MGH, calculate its filling and the method of breeding the PKB / planning winged unit / or a ballistic warhead with a "bus" breeding system.
        Now START-3 does not prohibit, as START-1, the modernization of only one type of solid fuel rocket of a light class (and in extremely tight overall weight limits), provided it equipping with only one combat unit. Limited only total number of carriers and charges.Also there are no restrictions on the minimum range of ICBMs, only on the maximum over 5000 km.
        Another thing is that the same poplar or YRS is inefficient to use when shooting less than 5000 km. For this, smaller overall threshold ICBMs with an increased speed of overcoming autonomous missiles are needed, which was most likely asked initially when developing the Rubezh and Barguzin complexes.
      4. +3
        9 February 2015 15: 12
        Quote: Wheel
        Of course, these Pershing were somewhat unpleasant

        ... yes, they were just conditionally mobile, not like the Pioneers. Those. any of their exit from the place of deployment - could effectively be detected with the preemptive destruction of the Oka, and subsequently the RK Speed ​​...
        1. 0
          9 February 2015 15: 45
          Noticed by what and how? All the more effective.
          1. 0
            9 February 2015 16: 52
            Quote: clidon
            Noticed by what and how? All the more effective.

            RTR ... and the whole spectrum of other possibilities, including active opposition in all possible ways ...
            We had a law enforcement officer in REZM, who at one time began to serve in the GSVG and imprisoned for such things in the RDG ...
            1. +2
              9 February 2015 20: 45
              How can RTR detect rocket launchers moving into position (in radio silence mode) and bring them into launch mode? And there are no more operational "spectra" methods, except with legs and binoculars. Especially then.
              I'm not even talking about the fact that such "binoculars" -DRGs can operate only during the escalation period, when "access to the deployment areas", their dispersal and camouflage have already been completed.
              1. +1
                9 February 2015 20: 54
                Quote: clidon
                How can an RTR detect missile launchers advancing to positions (in radio silence mode) and bring them into start-up mode?

                Well, the intelligence is comprehensive. RTR is not omnipotent, although it is very useful, even by the fact that radio silence has begun in a certain area of ​​Suddenly some conclusions can already be drawn. And if the enemy begins to launch re-action activities to cover the extension of missile launchers, then in general - an alarm.
                And so. There are special reconnaissance stations, which are either thrown into the area of ​​interest, or are installed by RDGs, on possible routes of advancement, in addition, UAVs and AWACS aircraft have very great opportunities in this regard ... Yes, and "foot" reconnaissance, certainly not worth dropping from the shields ...
                1. +1
                  9 February 2015 22: 28
                  Intelligence has its limits and possibilities. Therefore, suddenly, there will be no radio silence - in this case, "empty" commands will simply be broadcast, and the real ones "in packets". And if the electronic warfare is only a cover for any other actions, even if the radio silence, even if the electronic warfare. Well, they began to move, hide, disguise themselves. Then what?
                  Special stations have very small coverage and are in fact an extension of the capabilities of pedestrian reconnaissance. And placing them (exactly like the DRG) in "glass" Germany, perhaps, is a more complicated thing than in the forests, on the route of the "Topol".
                  UAVs (what kind of "real-time" UAVs do we have in the 80s?), Aircraft, tank attacks, this is when the war and hands are free. And the "Pershing" is the same. And in fact, with these RSDs, the same option as the "poplars" by the "pioneers" appears, you can reliably find them and neutralize them.
                  1. +3
                    9 February 2015 23: 05
                    Quote: clidon
                    And the "Pershing" is the same. And in fact, with these RSDs, the same option as the "poplars" by the "pioneers"

                    ... one big difference - Pershing-2, unlike all our PGRKs, were LOW-MOBILE! For them, reaching the field positions was an out of the ordinary occupation. Therefore, any "movement" around them - it was an extraordinary event. Once an emergency - they knew about it very well. a lot of people, including outsiders "mothers of large 7 children" ...
                    And there were only a few cases in my memory of such exits.
                    And in reality, relevant events were planned for these cases.

                    And our PGRK in the same periods totaled hundreds of thousands of kilometers!
                    1. +2
                      9 February 2015 23: 48
                      Something like that is quite a frivolous level of discussion goes.
                      Does it really matter to us how the exit will be carried out in peacetime? The main thing is that the installations had the ability to disperse at high speed on order. At the same time, there is no super-difficulty in getting to the launch areas along public roads (and they did have exercises). In this case, all movement can be carried out by a written order. Even if some circle of people knew about it, it is not a fact that at least someone reported. But even if he said - "the installations have left", what's next?
                2. +2
                  10 February 2015 16: 50
                  He served in GSVG 84-86 in the special forces of the GRU, our targets were the Pershing in the deployment areas. Security, routes of advance, to the point that the photos of the commanders of the PU were memorized.
    3. +1
      9 February 2015 15: 03
      Quote: bmv04636
      to cool PC-26 hotheads

      we all the time forget about "Blue" and "Bulava" in combat mode of dagger launch point-blank from the coastal zones of 3,14ndostan. The impact time is less than 10 minutes. A salvo from 16 missiles with an interval of less than 20 seconds.
      The impact is not detected until the moment the rockets leave the horizon line ...
      Fast, simple and cheerful! The answer may not take place.
      1. +4
        9 February 2015 16: 07
        The question is that BDRM are not on duty in the coastal zones of the state you indicated. There is no need. But since the beginning of the 90s, "products" from these submarines have been flying on a flat trajectory without any problems. And the Bulava was not yet on duty in full. This is how they go to a full-fledged autonomous system, then you can put a tick.
        1. 0
          9 February 2015 16: 57
          Quote: Andrey NM
          The question is that BDRMs are not on duty in the coastal zones of the state you have indicated

          Interestingly, they themselves reported to you? :)
          Let's say the 300-700 mile is like how, to which zone does it belong? ...
          About the accident on the missile strategic submarine cruiser (SSBN) K-219, which occurred off the coast of America in October 1986, TASS reported just the next day after the tragedy. “A fire broke out on a Soviet nuclear submarine around 1000 kilometers northeast of Bermuda in one of the compartments,” was said in a short message. “There are casualties aboard the boat ...”
          1. +7
            9 February 2015 18: 11
            No, it's just that he autonomized himself on the BDRM. K-219, which you are talking about, is the boat of the 19th division from Gadzhievo. 4 people were killed. The sailor Preminin is known to everyone. The commander of the BC-2 Petrachkov died because of his beard, the mask of the self-contained breathing apparatus did not fit tightly, he breathed in pairs of components (this is what the rocket officers from the 19th division told me). This project 667AU boat carried the D-5U missile system. Its range was in the region of 3000 km, and the minimum range was about 500 km, plus or minus a little more (I can not vouch for super accuracy, I reproduce it from memory, it should be on the network), but you still need to keep the target in the depths of the territory, so I had to to approach the shores of a potential enemy, so there was still a headache that the firing sector was limited by a narrow angle, so there were features of maneuvering in designated areas, and the areas were very limited. It is difficult to explain on the fingers, you need to draw it. Those submariners were face to face with the amers' anti-submarine defense and still carried out their missions.
            The rockets were with shock absorber belts, they hooked a little incorrectly, the ribbons came off, the shock absorbers crumbled. And the warehouse cart is very uncomfortable, the drawbars bent like plasticine. "Lucky" to dig deeper with them a little. They were called 4K-10 and 3M-20 for D-5 and D-5U. Start only underwater and only in batches of 8 with a break (less is possible, more is not possible).

            But for BDRM, all these conditions are not needed, range allows you to shoot from protected areas, you can use flooring if necessary, which slightly reduces range, but reduces flight time, there are no restrictions on sectors. And 300-700 miles - very close.

            I am silent about the Mace, I know no more about it than you, I can only imagine.
            Something like that. I hope I clearly stated it? hi
            1. +1
              9 February 2015 19: 48
              Quote: Andrey NM
              I hope I clearly stated

              ...more than! bully
              But if the task is of a disarming blow, you need to - "put the revolver to the temple." laughing
              1-2 the boat is enough for this ...
              1. 0
                9 February 2015 20: 46
                If the task is a disarming strike, then risk a few boats, and even at the most disadvantageous line for launching missiles, the top wastefulness.
                That is why "if it happened" BDRMs will simply graze hard in their launch areas.
                1. 0
                  9 February 2015 21: 19
                  Quote: clidon
                  If the task is a disarming strike, then risk a few boats, and even at the most disadvantageous line for launching missiles, the top wastefulness.

                  ...it is your opinion.
                  Others may think and plan differently.
                  1. 0
                    9 February 2015 23: 50
                    So far there has not been and there is not a single sign that someone would decide in a frenzy to risk a few SSBNs? forcing them from a warm cozy "home" area to meddle through anti-submarine lines for ... for what?
                    1. 0
                      10 February 2015 00: 16
                      Quote: clidon
                      them from a warm cozy "home" area

                      ... are you kidding, Baltic and North?
                      1. +3
                        10 February 2015 05: 12
                        In the Baltic, nothing of the kind has existed for a long time. There were once diesel boats 629 and 929A of the project, based in Liepaja, they had missiles (3 pieces) placed in the wheelhouse. Firing range up to 1400 km. In 1985, I saw them in Liepaja, and once brought to us in Gadzhievo in 1988, I stood on the 8th pier for several days. People went to look like a museum exhibit. Where it came from and where it happened later remained a mystery to me.
                      2. +1
                        10 February 2015 09: 01
                        From the point of view of anti-submarine defense, our submarine North and Far East is exactly Sweet Home. There are no anti-submarine borders (but there are ours), the use of basic aviation is limited, there are ships of their own covered by coastal forces, there are no AUGs on a permanent basis, etc. I don’t want to be on duty.
              2. +1
                10 February 2015 04: 45
                To attach to the temple, as you say, there are various cruise missiles that can be equipped with heads for different purposes, both with nuclear warheads and conventional explosives. And once upon a time, options were considered for a kind of nuclear club in the form of a huge torpedo, which was supposed to be launched along the coast, but then this was abandoned, and the carrier had already begun to be made, so the 627 project boat appeared. Roughly on the same principle, they wanted to remake one of the old submarine ICBMs, then instead of the last stage they wanted to attach a nuclear superhead, the range decreased significantly, the boats would have to "crawl" in relative proximity to the coast of a potential enemy. Shooting was supposed in both cases at the coastal zone, the shock wave and tsunami from the explosion were supposed to sweep everything from the coast. But fortunately, there was no further talk and plans. These things were also described on the net.
                1. 0
                  10 February 2015 09: 03
                  To put it to the temple, when at least some kind of urgent response to the Pershing in Europe was needed, the 667th project was sent to the American shores to be on duty. Until one of them drowned in the Bermuda area. True, now, I agree, cruise missiles would be the best solution.
                  1. +1
                    10 February 2015 10: 07
                    And I agree and disagree with you. 667A or azukhs, as they are popularly called, simply could not be on duty otherwise, their missile systems are made like that. The range is relatively short, but you need to cover targets, so they were on duty in those areas. In fact, this is the first "combat" serial project of ships of this class. You can, of course, recall the 658 project, and the diesels of the 629 project, but there are so many difficulties in application. And even earlier there were boats with rockets on the launch pad before launch. I remember at the school they showed us a checklist for preparation for the start, there the command was: "Raise the launch pad at creeping speed!" And we laughed ...
                    1. +2
                      10 February 2015 10: 44
                      There is simply a nuance - the 667s really initially "worked" off the coast of the United States, then with the advent of long-range missiles they were transferred to "Euro" tasks with short exits, but from the beginning of the 80s they decided to drive again to the shores of the United States (through the SOSUS ), as a response to the RSD in Europe.
                      1. +2
                        10 February 2015 12: 52
                        Well, maybe I didn't serve at the basics, and who and where "wandered", we did not discuss. Exits to the Atlantic were called "walking around the corner", and the line from which the counting of checks (or coupons) began was called the "banana grove." laughing Somewhere my cover is preserved.
                      2. +1
                        10 February 2015 12: 56
                        Anchored cover? )
                      3. +2
                        10 February 2015 13: 40
                        ... and with the inscription "Checks of the USSR Vneshtorgbank". Each booklet is 25 rubles ...
                        And my classmate's father served as a midshipman, was a diver in Angola. Here he was paid with Birch checks.
                  2. 0
                    10 February 2015 14: 29
                    Quote: clidon
                    cruise missiles would be a better solution.

                    ... for one drawback - they are slow-moving, the 1,5 route goes beyond 2 with an extra hour ...
                    1. 0
                      11 February 2015 09: 57
                      Well, they are a difficult target for air defense.
    4. +1
      9 February 2015 17: 27
      SS-20 Saber (RSD-10 “Pioneer”) at the National Air and Space Museum in Washington.

      How shoud I understand this??? With mounted warheads especially ???
      1. +2
        9 February 2015 19: 45
        Quote: Civil
        With mounted warheads especially ???

        layout laughing
      2. +1
        9 February 2015 22: 20
        This is a mutual exchange between museums. "Pershing-2" is in the CMVS. With the same "warheads". )
  2. +6
    9 February 2015 07: 33
    Iskander M - Rocket Web Documentary 2014
  3. +5
    9 February 2015 07: 39
    Something I do not recall the scandals associated with the deployment of the Iskanders. There was hype in the media, but there were no international scandals, such as with Pershing.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +1
      9 February 2015 13: 41
      Quote: La-5
      There was hype in the media, but there were no international scandals, such as with Pershing.

      1. Comparing MGM-31C Pershing II and Iskander-M is not serious

      2. The scandal was Pershing, Temp-S and Pioneer:
      The Rubicon was crossed on 22 on November 1983, when the Bundestag of the Federal Republic of Germany passed a resolution by a small majority of votes on the start of the deployment of the Pershing-2 infantry-fighting infantry division in the country.

      The answer is in the Statement of Y. Andropov of November 24, November 1983 and at the December Plenum of the CPSU Central Committee. “For any attempt to break the prevailing military-strategic balance,” Y. Andropov said, “the Soviet Union will be able to give a proper answer, and its word will never go away.”

      1) the Soviet leadership recognized the impossibility of further participation of the USSR in negotiations on the limitation of strategic arms and nuclear weapons in Europe.

      2) The USSR also took a number of military measures. In particular, the moratorium on the deployment of Soviet medium-range missiles in the European part of the country was lifted, an additional amount of sea-based nuclear weapons was deployed. In addition, according to an agreement with the governments of Czechoslovakia and the GDR in the territories of these countries, several dozen launchers of the Temp-S operational-tactical mobile ground-based missile complex (PGRK) were deployed as part of the ground forces, created in the 60's and modernized at the end of the 70's.
      3) Work on the PGRK "Speed"
  4. -15
    9 February 2015 07: 40
    The KVO of the Iskander-M warhead reaches 5 ... 7 meters.

    "Unconfirmed KVO" or "declared" ....

    Enemy command posts and bases, hangars, fuel storages, accumulations of armored vehicles and aircraft, air defense systems, artillery batteries, bridges and power plants: all this will undergo inevitable total destruction in the first minutes of the war.

    There is a clear inflection here. "accumulations of armored and aviation equipment" with a warhead of 470 kg? Unless, of course, they are specifically collected in a bunch ...
    "artillery batteries" - Iskander's expensive pleasure in artillery batteries. You can immediately Topol by mortar calculation.

    IMHO Iskander is dangerous only with a special warhead. One F-16 carries "12 Iskander" ...

    Article "+". good
    1. +9
      9 February 2015 08: 08
      it also has a cassette warhead, so it can also gobble in the cluster.
      1. -19
        9 February 2015 08: 12
        Quote: just EXPL
        it also has a cassette warhead, so it can also gobble in the cluster.

        Of course, only little use will come of it. Armored vehicles are not affected by such ammunition, and aircraft in the open air are already not hold. So it’s better to protect such an expensive missile for more valuable and vulnerable purposes.
        1. +9
          9 February 2015 11: 51
          What a blatant lie about airplanes, he himself recently posted photos from airfields, "nirazUNEvAngare". It doesn't matter, runway damage will be quite significant. Armored vehicles on the ground are in grinding, the damage will be significant. And no one is going to shoot at the column on the march, so do not wander around and do not make yourself an idiot by thinking about how ridiculous it is to shoot at a tank in the field with an Iskander.
        2. +1
          9 February 2015 19: 12
          The missile needs a different one, in two variants - 499 km, so that the warhead is at least 1.5 tons, then you can put a single-block OD either 40 pieces of 35 kg cassettes, and the second option is a two-stage 5501 km with a 100kg neutron warhead.
        3. +1
          13 February 2015 18: 21
          There is a cassette warhead with homing cumulative elements that perfectly burn the armor. bully
    2. +2
      9 February 2015 08: 45
      Quote: professor
      IMHO Iskander is dangerous only with a special warhead.

      So.
    3. +21
      9 February 2015 09: 10
      Quote: professor
      "Unconfirmed KVO" or "declared" ...

      Where did you get such a skepticism from the professor at the Russian military industry

      It is clear that the losers, the majority of the "no-analogs" wunderwaffel, are militaristic nonsense and yet another bluff of the military-industrial complex

      But why bring to the point of absurdity, questioning the simplest things
      QUO 5 ... 7 meters with modern technology - sounds at least prudent
      Quote: professor
      "accumulations of armored and aviation equipment" with a warhead of 470 kg? Unless, of course, they are specifically collected in a pile ..

      cover the BTT column of the cassette warhead
      aircraft - not all planes are in protected caponiers

      Sheikh Isa Air Base, Bahrain. Accumulation of US Marine Corps, Operation Desert Storm. By the way, the base is located on an island in Pers. the bay, only 300 km from Iran
      Quote: professor
      "artillery batteries" - Iskander's expensive pleasure in artillery batteries.

      The cost of one 155 mm German howitzer?

      How about radar? SAM positions?
      Quote: professor
      One F-16 carries "12 Iskander".

      Why then do the Yankees actively use the "Tomahawks"?

      Mb because there is no threat of loss of the 100-millionth aircraft from unsuppressed enemy air defense or a threat with landing on the stake of a downed F-16 pilot?
      1. +7
        9 February 2015 09: 59
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        But why bring to the point of absurdity, questioning the simplest things
        QUO 5 ... 7 meters with modern technology - sounds at least prudent


        The whole trouble is that the KVO is calculated for the greenhouse conditions of the landfills and confirmed there.
        Realities are always worse by an order of magnitude, or even more.
        A classic example is the bombing of the Kalaya-Dzhangi fortress in Afghanistan, when out of nine (!) High-precision bombs, not one was hit ...
        1. +1
          9 February 2015 11: 14
          Quote: Wheel
          A classic example is the bombing of the Kalaya-Dzhangi fortress in Afghanistan, when out of nine (!) High-precision bombs, not one was hit ...

          More often the opposite happens - with one bomb to the target

          Otherwise, what's the point of precision weapons
          1. +3
            10 February 2015 09: 23
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            More often the opposite happens - with one bomb to the target

            Otherwise, what's the point of precision weapons

            About "much more often" you got a little excited.
            There were plenty of misses in Yugoslavia, and in Iraq, and in Afghanistan, and in Libya.

            The point is that there is a chance that it will not miss.
      2. -8
        9 February 2015 10: 13
        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        Where did you get such a skepticism from the professor at the Russian military industry

        In God We Trust: All others Must Bring Data

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        But why bring to the point of absurdity, questioning the simplest things
        QUO 5 ... 7 meters with modern technology - sounds at least prudent

        It is prudent when the system does not get up to tricks "according to the only known algorithm" with an overload of 30g, reaching an altitude of 50 km and having a very dubious system of "optical sensors". By the way, how does the presence of these sensors relate to "The warhead is made taking into account the stealth technology. Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without large aerodynamic surfaces"? Where do these sensors get target designation from?

        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        cover the BTT column of the cassette warhead

        You can and a gun on the sparrows. Moreover, sparrows are guaranteed to die from laughter. The Iskander on the BTT convoy is not very effective since the convoy is in motion and its submunitions will do little harm. To destroy the BTT, ammunition with a shock core and homing is needed.


        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
        aircraft - not all planes are in protected caponiers

        Where there is a real threat, then all aircraft are in protected hangars. For example, in Germany.


        In China, they are generally in bunkers:


        1. -13
          9 February 2015 10: 16
          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          The cost of one 155 mm German howitzer?
          How about radar? SAM positions?

          Iskander rocket is cheaper than MBT. Will we shoot Iskander single tanks?
          If the radar or air defense system is stationary, then it is possible with Iskander. If mobile, then I wish you good luck.

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Why then do the Yankees actively use the "Tomahawks"?

          Because the Americans have them. fellow

          Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
          Mb because there is no threat of loss of the 100-millionth aircraft from unsuppressed enemy air defense or a threat with landing on the stake of a downed F-16 pilot?

          F-16 not worth 100 lyamov- Current Price $ 47 million US
          F-16 on the rocks like dogs not cut


          F-16 does not always require a pilot.


          PS
          Take decommissioned Phantoms as a medium?
          1. +6
            9 February 2015 10: 54
            Quote: professor
            Iskander rocket is cheaper than MBT. Will we shoot Iskander single tanks?

            Apply Iskander to position art. batteries - a perfectly justifiable solution
            On that and operational tactical missile system
            Quote: professor
            If the radar or air defense system is stationary then you can

            I think so too


            Missile defense radar?

            Quote: professor
            If mobile, then I wish you good luck.

            Deploy on the ground, set up and prepare the battery of "Patriots" for firing - it will not work faster than entering GPS data (or coordinates + digital image in the infrared range) into the missile seeker

            Quote: professor
            F-16 not worth 100 lyamov- Current Price $ 47 million US

            Yes, of course, tell me about procurement, weapon or flyaway cost
            + the cost of the "body kit" (sighting and navigation containers of 10 lyamas apiece, conformal tanks, etc.)
            Quote: professor
            F-16 does not always require a pilot.

            In this form, they are flawed. There is no question of actions in the conditions of air defense and enemy aviation, the search for targets in the most difficult conditions of a real battle, only in the form of targets and false targets when breaking through air defense

            a smart drone of the X-47C level will pull all 200 lamas. I'm not against drones. But why risk an expensive car if there is a consumable in the form of tactical-tactical Iskander BR missiles or Tomahawk CD
            Goals are worth it
            1. -6
              9 February 2015 13: 18
              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Apply Iskander to position art. batteries - a perfectly justifiable solution
              That's what the operational-tactical missile system

              The battery is at the firing position for no more than 3-4 minutes. I wish you good luck in shelling the Iskanders.

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Deploy on the ground, set up and prepare the battery of "Patriots" for firing - it will not work faster than entering GPS data (or coordinates + digital image in the infrared range) into the missile seeker

              What will the target designation be?

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              Yes, of course, tell me about procurement, weapon or flyaway cost
              + the cost of the "body kit" (sighting and navigation containers of 10 lyamas apiece, conformal tanks, etc.)

              I can tell, but that will not make them 100 lyam apiece.

              Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
              In this form, they are flawed. There is no question of actions in the conditions of air defense and enemy aviation, the search for targets in the most difficult conditions of a real battle, only in the form of targets and false targets when breaking through air defense

              That is, as a target, he is for you not expensive (just 100 lyamas for a little thing), but how is the carrier (and reusable) tested in GBU battle expensive? Oh well... laughing
              1. 0
                10 February 2015 01: 42
                Quote: professor
                The battery is at the firing position for no more than 3-4 minutes

                In 4 minutes they don’t even have time to turn the fluff in the direction of the target
                Quote: professor
                What will the target designation be?

                see comment from opus
                Quote: professor
                I can tell

                So tell me !!

                Why bother to write "unit price $ 47 mln" if you know that the cost of state aircraft is calculated differently
                Quote: professor
                and that won't make them xnumx lyam apiece.

                The Defense Security Cooperation Agency notified Congress on 13 September 2010 of a possible Foreign Military Sale to Iraq of 18 F-16IQ Aircraft as well as associated equipment and services. The total value, if all options are exercised, could be as high as $ 4.2 billion.

                The Government of Iraq requested a possible sale of (18) F-16IQ aircraft, (24) F100-PW-229 or F110-GE-129 Increased Performance Engines, (36) LAU-129 / A Common Rail Launchers, (24) APG-68 (V) 9 radar sets, (19) M61 20mm Vulcan Cannons, (200) AIM-9L / M-8 / 9 SIDEWINDER Missiles, (150) AIM-7M-F1 / HM SPAR -50D / G / H / K MAVERICK Air to Ground Missiles, (65) GBU-200 PAVEWAY II Laser Guided Bomb Units (12 pound), (500) GBU-50 PAVEWAY II Laser Guided Bomb Units (10 pound), (2000 ) GBU-50 PAVEWAY III Laser Guided Bomb Units (24 pound), (2000) Advanced Countermeasures Electronic Systems (ACES) (ACES includes the ALQ-22 Electronic Warfare System and AN / ALR-187 Radar Warning Receiver), (93) AN / APX-20 Advanced Identification Friend or Foe (AIFF) Systems (without Mode IV), (113) Global Positioning Systems (GPS) and Embedded GPS / Inertial Navigation Systems (INS), (Standard Positioning Service (SPS) commercial code only), (20) AN / AAQ-20 SNIPER or AN / AAQ-33 LITENING Targeting Pods, (28) F-4 Advanced Airborne Reconnaissance Systems (AARS) or DB-9120 Reconnaissance Pods (RECCE) , (110) AN / ALE-22 Countermeasures Dispensing Systems (CMDS); (47) Conformal Fuel Tanks (pairs).


                4,2 / 18 = 233 million per aircraft. Given all of the above, this is similar to the cost of a life cycle (however, without the cost of fuel). This amount must be divided by the number of bombs dropped - and you will be surprised how expensive it is to drop one modern bomb.

                Pretending to argue that the modern F-16 costs less than 100 million apiece (for example, flyaway cost) you will again get an unpleasant result: it turns out that spare parts, PNK, PTB and ammunition surpass F-16 in value

                and this is the smallest and most primitive fighter!
                Quote: professor
                as a target it is not expensive for you (straight 100 lyamov for a little thing)

                The target is not worth 100 million
                1. -1
                  10 February 2015 08: 35
                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  In 4 minutes they don’t even have time to turn the fluff in the direction of the target

                  Note the time:



                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  see comment from opus

                  Looked, not convinced. See my answer.

                  Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                  The target is not worth 100 million

                  I am missing the above stated value as it is not relevant. So, how much is an F-16 target? And from the Phantom? And how much does it cost to hang a targeting pod on it, a dozen GBUs and, if necessary, SATCOM. Let there be 2 lemons. I rest my case.
                  1. 0
                    10 February 2015 10: 39
                    Quote: professor
                    Note the time:

                    What for?
                    Video-cutting of the highlights, most of the preparation was left overs

                    How much time did she take? In three minutes they won’t even have time to dismount and lower the stoppers
                    Quote: professor
                    So, how much is an F-16 target? And from the Phantom?

                    Once they were new at 100 million (in terms of current prices)
                    Now nothing targets in the form of targets. Disposal at a garbage plant will cost more
                    Quote: professor
                    And how much does it cost to hang on her targeting pod

                    A welder can handle a couple of hours, an arm, a pair of bolts
                    Get target with targeting pod
                    Quote: professor
                    Let it be 2 lemon

                    the simplest litening costs five, google
                    Quote: professor
                    I rest my case.

                    - Did you have a problem with your English?
                    - I do not have. The British had
                    1. -1
                      10 February 2015 14: 15
                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      What for?
                      Video-cutting of the highlights, most of the preparation was left overs

                      Yeah, for example, the M-113 (on the roller at the 30th second) stopped, fired, and after 10 seconds fell down. You are going to Iskander on it. Once again, good luck !!!

                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Now nothing targets in the form of targets. Disposal at a garbage plant will cost more

                      Thank God!!! Now here is a target that "costs nothing" turns into a reusable carrier of high-precision, BATTLE-TESTED weapons. Is that clearer?

                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      A welder can handle a couple of hours, an arm, a pair of bolts
                      Get target with targeting pod

                      You are mistaken. The bracket is used standard, and aluminum is not cooked on planes, but riveted.

                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      Let it be 2 lemon
                      the simplest litening costs five, google

                      I met a figure of one lemon for an Elop container.

                      Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                      - Did you have a problem with your English?

                      It was about no.

                      So, we take from Arizona a decommissioned phantom or falcon that "does not cost anything", weight it with GBU tested in battle and bomb the enemy ahead. And if it’s boring, then on a decommissioned phantom or falcon that “doesn’t cost anything,” I hang “targeting under”, put a satellite dish on the roof and now look for and bomb the enemy.

                      PS
                      How is it with the experience of the military use of Iskander?
                      1. 0
                        13 February 2015 10: 45
                        Quote: professor
                        for example, M-113 (on the video at the 30 second) stopped, fired, and after 10 seconds fell down.

                        strange comparison
                        the cannonade 155 mm howitzers and the only shot from a mortar that fired a mine anywhere
                        Quote: professor
                        a target that "costs nothing" turns into a reusable carrier of high-precision, BATTLE-CHECKED weapons

                        The cost of such a conversion
                        ?
                        Quote: professor
                        So, we take from Arizona a decommissioned phantom or falcon that "does not cost anything", weight it with GBU tested in battle and bomb the enemy ahead.

                        You probably wanted to say - throw GBU anywhere

                        Oleg, turning a target into a shock drone is still unsolved by those. task. In addition to the brackets and sighting equipment, you will need to equip the aircraft:

                        + protected satellite communication system with highly directional antenna. Two-way data transmission channel, whose width will allow the transmission of high-resolution "pictures" from the UAV in real time;

                        + wide-angle high-resolution video cameras;

                        + Dozens of other cameras and sensors - providing operators with a sufficient number of inf. when approaching and completing other complex maneuvers;

                        + a sufficiently powerful computer that connects data from all cameras and sensors into a single whole;

                        Moreover, the resulting child prodigy will be able to perform only the simplest tasks. She is not able even in theory to withstand aviation and fly into the air defense zone without consequences

                        Given the fact that the "free" target from the dump in Davis Monten is almost completely exhausted and it’s enough for a couple of sorties (otherwise, you have to capitalize the engine and the whole structure = investments will become equal to the cost of building the new F-16) - who cares?

                        Actually, the Pentagon also knows this, so no one is going to "hang the target with GBU bombs"
                      2. -3
                        13 February 2015 11: 28
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        strange comparison
                        the cannonade 155 mm howitzers and the only shot from a mortar that fired a mine anywhere

                        1. You are considering the tactics and technology of 1945 with the modern one. It is not right.
                        2. We discuss a specific artillery system, its performance characteristics, airborne missile defense, deployment and deployment time?

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        The cost of such a conversion?

                        http://www.ecnmag.com/articles/2014/01/how-boeing-converted-f-16s-unmanned-aeria


                        l-targets
                        Here they write that it is not expensive and that the next 126 (one hundred twenty six) decommissioned F-16s are next. The aircraft is replenished with several new systems and forward into the air. Targeting for (if needed) costs about a lemon. Satcom (if needed) is generally worth a penny. Catch GBUs with the coordinates of the target and your "target" immediately becomes a formidable weapon.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        You probably wanted to say - throw GBU anywhere

                        No. I wanted to say where it should be.


                        I repeat. Even if the plane is disposable, it carries 12-16 battle-tested Iskanders. All of the following awnings are optional and are not required for the GPS-guided GBU. 126 falcon is 1500-2000 Iskander ...

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        + protected satellite communications system with a highly directional antenna.



                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        + wide-angle high-resolution video cameras;



                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        + Dozens of other cameras and sensors


                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Actually, the Pentagon also knows this, so no one is going to "hang the target with GBU bombs"

                        The world is full of surprises. fellow
                      3. +1
                        13 February 2015 12: 02
                        Quote: professor
                        Tactics and techniques of the 1945 year with the modern. It is not right.

                        tell the armies of 40 countries about this)))
                        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/122-%EC%EC_%E3%E0%F3%E1%E8%F6%E0_%C4-30
                        Quote: professor
                        Here they write that it is not expensive and that the next 126 (one hundred twenty six) decommissioned Ф-16 are next in line

                        Make a target
                        и make a shock droneable to detect the target of the folds of the relief, in a real battle (weather / enemy opposition)

                        Different things

                        Enough to see how much any ripper
                        Quote: professor
                        Catch the GBU with the coordinates of the target and your "target" immediately becomes a formidable weapon.

                        Fill out a patent and sell it to the Pentagon)
                        Quote: professor
                        Targeting under (if needed) is near the lemon

                        how much will it cost to integrate into target avionics
                        Quote: professor
                        Even if the plane is disposable, it carries 12-16 battle-tested Iskanders.

                        And it costs the same

                        It is categorically not capable operate the air defense and enemy aircraft coverage area. That is the value of a ballistic missile.

                        And then you can bomb with F-16
                      4. -2
                        13 February 2015 13: 09
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        tell the armies of 40 countries about this)))

                        So it was under King Pea


                        and so the same guns look today

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Make a target and make an impact drone, capable of detecting the target in the folds of the relief, in a real battle (weather / opposing the enemy) different things

                        Why would a drone detect target folds of terrain? Iskander doing this? The Pentagon with intelligence is all right. The drone only needs to deliver its deadly cargo to the designated area, and the GBU will do everything themselves.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Enough to see how much any ripper

                        I repeat. A drone based on a decommissioned falcon should only deliver one way cargo. 126 drones have already been planned.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Fill out a patent and sell it to the Pentagon)

                        Made to me. fellow

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        how much will it cost to integrate into target avionics

                        I repeat. "Targeting for" is optional, as GBUs themselves know how to do their job. Itself "under" is under the lemon, integration of another 100 thousand. How much is Iskander worth? wink

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        At the same time, it is categorically incapable of operating the air defense zone and enemy aircraft. That is the value of a ballistic missile.

                        Hook on it an EW container already tested in battle, a couple of false targets, program to go at a criminally low altitude, donate 50% of carriers, use a dozen spice and hello air defense. Moreover, the range of this kamikaze is an order of magnitude greater than Iskander.


                        Why am I all? And besides, there is no perfect weapon, as they try to present here the lacking taxes in the world Iskander. It may so happen that there will be a cheaper and more effective weapon. I am sure that there are situations when Iskander is the most optimal choice, but there are not so many.
                      5. 0
                        14 February 2015 01: 00
                        Quote: professor
                        Why would a drone detect target folds of terrain? Iskander doing this?

                        1. then to know where to drop bombs
                        2. Yes. Like any precision weapon
                        Quote: professor
                        The drone only needs to deliver its deadly cargo to the designated area, and the GBU will do everything themselves

                        Who will illuminate the target with a laser
                        Quote: professor
                        A drone based on a decommissioned falcon should only deliver one way cargo. Such drones are already planned 126 pieces

                        Do not compose
                        It is only about radio-controlled targets
                        Quote: professor
                        integration of another 100 thousand.

                        tell it to the creators of MQ-9 Reaper
                        US $ 16.9 million (flyaway cost, 2013)
                        Quote: professor
                        Hook an EW container already tested in battle on it,

                        Cost of proven EW container
                        Quote: professor
                        program to go at low altitude

                        min dump height GBU 300 meters
                        What does it mean, you understand yourself
                        Quote: professor
                        Moreover, the range of this kamikaze is an order of magnitude greater than Iskander.

                        A much bigger advantage is the min. flying time and the possibility of striking in the enemy’s air defense zone
                        Quote: professor
                        There are situations when Iskander is the best choice, but not many

                        For a one-time drone with a cost, like a new fighter, they are not at all
                      6. -1
                        14 February 2015 08: 56
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Why would a drone detect target folds of terrain? Iskander doing this?
                        1. then to know where to drop bombs
                        2. Yes. Like any precision weapon

                        No, Iskander needs external target designation or previously explored targets. Moreover, GPS guidance is only on paper so far. JB tested in battle.

                        Equipping Iskander with electronic warfare equipment only on paper, GBU carriers proved their abilities in battle.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Who will illuminate the target with a laser

                        Not all GBUs require backlighting.
                        If necessary, drones from the size of a traitor to a mini-drone or an advanced observer from a neighboring farm can also illuminate.



                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Do not compose
                        It is only about radio-controlled targets

                        We are talking about unmanned F-16 capable of independently taking off, landing and flying a given route. "target" or "strike drone" - semantics.



                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        min dump height GBU 300 meters
                        What does it mean, you understand yourself

                        Understand. we’ll make a hill over the target or drop planned ammunition (they don’t need lights) at a distance of 100 km from the target and 12-16 killers will rush to their target from far away ... Hello Iskander. hi
                      7. 0
                        14 February 2015 11: 03
                        Quote: professor
                        Drones ranging in size from a traitor to a mini drone can also illuminate if necessary.

                        super drone needed an assistant Predator
                        sticking out for hours in the enemy’s air defense zone

                        interesting plot twist))
                        Quote: professor
                        or a forward observer from a nearby farm.

                        why, automation!
                        Quote: professor
                        fly the given route. "target" or "strike drone" - semantics

                        As a result, a combat system consisting of already two aircraft is required))

                        The traitor costs $ 4 million, while his marching speed is 30 times lower than that of the OTRK rocket - as long as it crawls into the given square, the war will end
                        Quote: professor
                        or reset planned ammunition (no lights required)

                        But what is the purpose of SDB?
                        infrared optical sensors !!
                      8. -2
                        14 February 2015 11: 23
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        super drone needed an assistant Predator
                        sticking out for hours in the enemy’s air defense zone

                        interesting plot twist))

                        It may be required, but not having an equivalent in the world Iskander is ALWAYS required. Feel the difference. wink

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        why, automation!

                        This platform, in contrast to the non-analogous world of Iskander, is very flexible. If you want by inertial, you want by GPS or laser. And most importantly, all this is tested in battle. What about the Iskander? wink





                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        As a result, a combat system consisting of already two aircraft is required))

                        The traitor costs $ 4 million, while his marching speed is 30 times lower than that of the OTRK rocket - as long as it crawls into the given square, the war will end

                        From your equation, you can safely remove the second aircraft of the Predator type, so in the case of Iskander it will also be needed ... For stationary purposes, one "worthless aircraft is enough. Isn't it? wink

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        But what is the purpose of SDB?
                        infrared optical sensors !!

                        There are several options, for example, in the optical image of the target, GPS, laser ...
                        What is the situation with a non-analogous world in Iskander?

                        "... 4 planes are carrying 74 (seventy four) 250 pound precision bombs."
                      9. -1
                        14 February 2015 11: 50
                        Quote: professor
                        May be required

                        The choice is small:
                        or carry out comprehensive work on the integration of aiming containers, high-resolution video cameras for visible and infrared ranges and secure satellite communication systems into the design of a "free target"

                        or use the services of a Predator
                        Quote: professor
                        Do you want by inertial, do you want by GPS or laser

                        ANN - does not provide a sufficient value of KVO
                        laser - see paragraph 1
                        GPS is the only option. But it will be necessary to equip the disposable target with a sophisticated sighting and navigation system.
                        Quote: professor
                        All this is tested in battle. How is things going with the Iskander

                        As with most samples of modern military equipment. when there is a need - will go to battle

                        The reputation of the Russian defense industry, earned by decades of painstaking work.
                      10. -1
                        14 February 2015 08: 58
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Cost of proven EW container

                        Less than similar equipment on the Iskander.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        tell it to the creators of MQ-9 Reaper
                        US $ 16.9 million (flyaway cost, 2013)

                        ... however, on the F-16, all this has long been integrated and tested in battle.
                        The cost of integration is to throw the pilot out of the cockpit.



                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        A much bigger advantage is the min. flying time and the possibility of striking in the enemy’s air defense zone

                        "min. flight time" is due to the fact that a tiny launcher must be dragged to the front line and exposed to attack. Hello Sayeret Matkal in Iraq in 1991. The ability to overcome missile defense so far is only on paper. "optical sensors" in the "Warhead, made with stealth technology."


                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        For a one-time drone with a cost, like a new fighter, they are not at all

                        Why wishful thinking? Cite your quote that "target is free"? wink
                      11. -1
                        14 February 2015 11: 17
                        Quote: professor
                        Less than similar equipment on the Iskander.

                        at such speeds and trajectories, he can do without it
                        Quote: professor
                        about everything has long been integrated and tested in battle.
                        The cost of integration is to throw the pilot out of the cockpit.

                        The cost of integration is seen on the example of the Reaper

                        Or 16 million was spent on the piston motor of this dragonfly?
                        Quote: professor
                        "min. flight time" is due to the fact that a tiny launcher must be dragged to the front line and exposed to attack

                        Under the blow of whom?
                        He will hit first

                        OTRK weapons of the first strike, knock out the most important targets until the enemy has suppressed air defense

                        So "dragging to the front line" is about nothing

                        about David's sling - Israel spends a quarter of its budget on defense
                        Unlike European countries, some kind of Turkey or Pakistan
                        They don’t even understand where they fell from.
                        Quote: professor
                        "free target"?

                        Paid system of target and Predator
                        Quote: professor
                        Why wishful thinking?

                        Oleg, admit that the idea with a shock drone based on the BPLV is purely your fantasy
                        and as it turned out, not the most successful
                      12. -1
                        14 February 2015 11: 30
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        at such speeds and trajectories, he can do without it

                        On paper.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        The cost of integration is seen on the example of the Reaper

                        weaponry ALREADY integrated on the F-16.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Under the blow of whom?
                        He will hit first

                        I know at least 2 states that also thought, but in the end received a preemptive strike.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Paid system of target and Predator

                        Intelligence is also needed for Iskander.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Oleg, admit that the idea with a shock drone based on the BPLV is purely your fantasy
                        and as it turned out, not the most successful

                        It would be mine, patented and wealthy. bully
                      13. 0
                        14 February 2015 11: 54
                        Quote: professor
                        On paper.

                        In logic

                        ballistic missile and slow drones
                        Quote: professor
                        Armament is already integrated on the F-16.

                        F-16 guidance systems linked to the eyes of the F-16 pilot

                        with a shock drone there is a mountain of those. of problems
                        Quote: professor
                        eventually got a preemptive strike.

                        The survivability of aviation during a preventive strike is not comparable with the survivability of the OTRK
                        Quote: professor
                        Intelligence is also needed for Iskander.

                        It's not about intelligence
                        It is about target designation at the time of the attack
        2. +6
          9 February 2015 10: 41
          Quote: professor
          In God We Trust: All Others Must Bring Data

          Thus, the characteristics of ANY technique can be called into question

          The candle was not held, the results of these tests are classified
          Data from the manufacturer in the form of advertising booklets - I myself can get these on any topic in Photoshop

          Not required believe. It is required to study and draw a conclusion
          It is for this purpose that a person has been given such an instrument as the brain: to find the truth by analyzing disparate source data, to take into account more reliable things, excluding less reliable information from the calculation - drawing conclusions based on one’s knowledge, experience and by virtue of mental abilities.
          Quote: professor
          the stem does not get up to tricks "according to the only known algorithm" with an overload of 30g

          Everything will depend on specific conditions, including accuracy
          Quote: professor
          In China, they are generally in bunkers:

          Here put and before entering the cave 500-kg charge of a powerful brisant
          Quote: professor
          where there is a real threat, then all planes are in protected hangars

          There are no rules there.
          War is always like a fire in a brothel during a flood

          There will not be enough caponiers at all, especially at advanced air bases, where all US aviation flies in a short time. During the Desert Storm, they were even put in civilian airports, wing to wing - despite the threat of all kinds of SCAD
          Quote: professor
          while having a very dubious system of "optical sensors"

          ANN, optics (DSMAC), GPS / GLONASS

          The ax, by the way, uses optics at the terminal stage, quite successfully
          1. -7
            9 February 2015 10: 57
            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Thus, the characteristics of ANY technique can be called into question

            This is exactly what you need to do, cast doubt on and study the experience of combat use.

            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            Everything will depend on specific conditions, including accuracy

            The ice has broken. Already, you are not so sure of the stated figures.

            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            There are no rules there.
            War is always like a fire in a brothel during a flood

            There are rules. Where there is a threat, planes hide there. Scuds never posed a real threat.

            Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
            The ax, by the way, uses optics at the terminal stage, quite successfully

            I can show you the Ax optics, and you can show the Iskander optics which are hidden in "Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without large aerodynamic surfaces"?
            What about target designation? Where does the picture come from?
            1. +4
              9 February 2015 11: 47
              Quote: professor
              This is exactly what you need to do, put in doubt

              Do not just question
              But analyze for reliability / inaccuracy based on existing knowledge

              Instead, Prof. issued "Unconfirmed KVO" and "Bring Data" (I would even say submit data) - with a hint of some official super-truthful source.

              Oleg, there is no such source in the public domain, murzilka about our and amers technique are drawn in Photoshop

              The only thing we know reliably:
              - the ancient Pershing-2 had a KVO of several tens of meters and therefore made the whole Soviet General Staff fight

              - There is a convention Trident-2 program. If the KVO were tens of meters, the program would have no meaning ($ 100 million into the void). Obviously, there is a real possibility of creating a maneuvering warhead with a several-meter air defense capability (this heavy 60-ton SLBM with a launch range of 11 000 km !!)

              - modern cruise missiles of the "Tomahawk" type have a KVO within a few meters - photographs from local wars, reliable facts of the combat use of high-precision weapons

              So why is there such distrust of the Russian Iskander ???
              All of his declared performance characteristics, at least, given the above facts, look reasonable. To doubt that the Russian military-industrial complex is capable of creating a DSMAC and a modern missile control system - ?? in the same way it is possible to prove the complete absence of Russia as a country, but this is not so
              Quote: professor
              learn the experience of combat use.

              Most types of modern technology do not even have it.

              But you need to study them
              See p.1
              Quote: professor
              Already, you are not so sure of the stated figures.

              Why all interfere in one heap in order to get a known absurdity

              There can be no "randomly maneuvering warhead"

              At the same time, the OTRK combat unit may experience overloads of more than 20g when flying along a ballistic trajectory

              The declared value of accuracy (KVO 5 ... 7 m) is achieved in a certain number of cases. No difficulty here

              In the case of camouflage / interference / weather / malfunctions in the GOS missiles - the beloved part of the BR will go into milk

              Quote: professor
              Scuds never posed a real threat.

              Why lie

              During the Persian Gulf War in 1991, Iraqis fired on modified P-17 territories of Israel (40 missiles) and Saudi Arabia (46 missiles) (according to other sources, 98 missiles were launched). According to the Israeli side, two-thirds of the missiles launched fell in uninhabited territory, the economic damage from the destruction amounted to 250 million dollars. 3300 apartments and other buildings in Israel were damaged or destroyed. 4 people became victims of rocket attacks in Israel, another 300 were injured. Only one attack was significant in terms of the number of victims - the rocket hit the American barracks in the city of Dharam, killing 28 American soldiers and injuring two hundred more.

              However, aircraft were openly set up at AB Sheikh Isa and at international airports
              Despite the fact that seriously beware of Scuds and "hunting for Scuds" has become one of the highest priority tasks of the MNF aviation
              1. -3
                9 February 2015 13: 40
                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Oleg, there is no such source in the public domain, murzilka about our and amers technique are drawn in Photoshop

                Reliably, we can know the effectiveness of the extreme GBU. Results on the face.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                So why is there such distrust of the Russian Iskander ???
                All of his declared performance characteristics, at least, given the above facts, look reasonable. To doubt that the Russian military-industrial complex is capable of creating a DSMAC and a modern missile control system - ?? in the same way it is possible to prove the complete absence of Russia as a country, but this is not so

                Distrust of him, not because he is Russian, but because even on paper, not everything goes well, not to mention the experience of combat use. What is only optical guidance through "Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without large aerodynamic surfaces."

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                learn the experience of combat use.
                Most types of modern technology do not even have it.

                There is. For example GBU, axes, Javelins, Cornets ...

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                There can be no "randomly maneuvering warhead"

                The rocket developers will not agree with you. According to them, the rocket maneuvers unpredictably.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Why lie

                I am a famous liar.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                3300 apartments and other buildings in Israel were damaged or destroyed. 4 people became victims of rocket attacks in Israel, another 300 were injured.

                Including apartments with cracked glass. Regarding the victims: 1 (one) person died directly from the rockets, there were victims of heart attacks and suffocated in gas masks because they did not pull out the filter plug.

                Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                Despite the fact that seriously beware of Scuds and "hunting for Scuds" has become one of the highest priority tasks of the MNF aviation

                For one simple reason, lest Israel take up the task of destroying the coalition with its presence.
                1. 0
                  10 February 2015 02: 03
                  Quote: professor
                  Most types of modern technology do not even have it.
                  There is. For example GBU, axes, Javelins, Cornets ...

                  KR Taurus Boat Virginia F-35

                  Eurofighter, Su-30MKI, S-300

                  Aegis naval air defense / missile defense system (the only victory in conditions close to combat - Iranian passenger Boeing)

                  Gripen, Raptor, MiG-31 ...

                  Most modern military equipment does not have combat use facts.
                  It remains only to analyze their performance characteristics based on similar precedents
                  Quote: professor
                  Including apartments with cracked glass.


                  Heavy damage and rubble from an Iraqi scud missile hit on Uziel street in Ramat Gan. מלחמת המפרץ. בצילום, הנזק הכבד שגרם טיל סקאד שנפל ברחוב עוזיאל ברמת גן. Photograph: ALPERT NATHAN, GPO. 26 / 01 / 1991

                  How many minutes to go from Ramat Gan to Tel Aviv?


                  Better comment on the case at the Amer base
                  Quote: professor
                  lest Israel engage in the destruction of its coalition.

                  Your personal speculation or conspiracy theology of the Israeli media

                  neither confirm (for my part - refute) this information is impossible, because you sincerely believe in it and will defend it in every possible way
                  1. -1
                    10 February 2015 08: 18
                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Most modern military equipment does not have combat use facts.

                    Some of the modern military equipment do not have the facts of military use, but Patriot, Javelin, Spike, ATMOS, Links, Delilah, etc. they have one.

                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    How many minutes to go from Ramat Gan to Tel Aviv?

                    Not at all, the distance is zero. However, only one person died. From kasamov died more.

                    Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                    Your personal speculation or conspiracy theology of the Israeli media

                    A fact known even to a local schoolboy. Links to the media, statements by the leadership of the country, as I understand it, will not suit you and you only need the original from the State Department? wink

                    Let’s better discuss where the digital IR image comes from.
                    1. 0
                      10 February 2015 10: 48
                      Quote: professor
                      Some

                      ABSOLUTE MAJORITY

                      Nuclear submarines, any thermonuclear weapons, fleets of all European countries, American Aegis cruisers and destroyers, all kinds of Eurofighter Gripen, domestic Tu-95, Tu-160, Tu-22, Amer B-2 (their raids to Iraq with a / b Whiteman - down the drain, mighty cars were not created to bomb Papuans) ......
                      Quote: professor
                      speeches by the country's leadership

                      Putin says a lot too
                      But that doesn't mean it's true.

                      And it would be interesting to look at the links confirming the hype of scad hunting associated with the danger of Israel entering the war.
                      Quote: professor
                      Let’s better discuss where the digital IR image comes from.

                      Reconnaissance aircraft - manned and unmanned

                      And do not forget about GPS
                      1. -1
                        10 February 2015 14: 15
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        ABSOLUTE MAJORITY

                        Nuclear submarines- participated, USA, UK
                        any thermonuclear weapon - God had mercy, enough nuclear
                        fleets of all European countries was the case. Gaddafi recently rolled up.
                        American Aegis Cruisers and Destroyers - Not Yet
                        all sorts of Eurofighter Gripeny - EMNIP then one of them bombed Libya
                        domestic Tu-95, Tu-160, Tu-22 used in battles by Iraq and Libya
                        amersky B-2 (their raids in Iraq with a / whitman - down the drain, mighty machines were not created to bomb Papuans) .....- the fact of military use, for example, in Yugoslavia remains a fact

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        And it would be interesting to look at the links confirming the hype of scad hunting associated with the danger of Israel entering the war.

                        Agreed, I will look and post. I will also lay out how the government of Israel justified itself before its people "why they are bombing us, and you are sitting idly by."

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Reconnaissance aircraft - manned and unmanned

                        And do not forget about GPS

                        Not okay. Unmanned at all in the subject behind its actual absence, the manned one showed itself in all its glory in Georgia, it seems they found out about the satellites ... I can show what the digital picture of the Su-34 looks like. GPS rests so that in order to hammer the coordinates into the rocket they need to be determined, and this is a problem (the film takes a long time to develop.)
                      2. The comment was deleted.
                      3. 0
                        14 February 2015 08: 16
                        Quote: professor
                        Nuclear submarines- participated

                        Sunk Cruiser of the Prehistoric Era
                        Moose shelled ground targets with tomahawks

                        There are no facts of combat employment in the face of enemy opposition; without all this, it is impossible to verify the basic quality of nuclear submarines - secrecy.
                        Quote: professor
                        all sorts of Eurofighter Gripeny - EMNIP then one of them bombed Libya

                        EMNIP marked Rafal there
                        moreover, air battles have not fought for 15 years
                        Quote: professor
                        fleets of all European countries was the case. Recently Gaddafi rolled up.

                        Do not make me laugh. AT 99% - merit of the U.S. Air Force
                        Quote: professor
                        B-2 (their raids in Iraq with a / whitman - down the drain, mighty cars were not created to bomb Papuans) .....- the fact of military use, for example, in Yugoslavia remains a fact

                        weakly
                      4. -1
                        14 February 2015 09: 06
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Sunk Cruiser of the Prehistoric Era

                        The fact of participation in hostilities is undeniable.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        EMNIP marked Rafal there

                        Royal Air Force (RAF) Libya ground attack by Euro Fighter

                        Below can be found some Operation Ellamy data shown at the briefing, related to the combined fleet of RAF Tornado and Typhoon
                        Sorties flown: 1.114
                        % Completed sorties on NATO total: 21%
                        Hours flown: 2.395
                        Average time: 2.14
                        % all NATO strikes: 15%
                        Typhoon ATO: 97%
                        Tornado ATO: 97%
                        Typhoon strikes: 91
                        Tornado strikes: 455
                        Overall success rate: 97%
                        The fact of participation in hostilities is undeniable.

                        JAS 39 GRIPEN IN AIR OPERATIONS
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Do not make me laugh. AT 99% - merit of the U.S. Air Force

                        Give your data about 99%, and after that I will lay out the real numbers.
                        The fact of participation in hostilities is undeniable.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        weakly

                        The fact of participation in hostilities is undeniable.
                      5. -1
                        14 February 2015 11: 28
                        Quote: professor
                        The fact of participation in hostilities is undeniable.

                        the sinking of the prehistoric Belgrano did not provide any data for assessing the combat capabilities of nuclear-powered submarines in modern submarine warfare

                        that's the whole significance of this "fact"
                        Like the bombing of Yugoslavia did not show any advantages B-2
                        Quote: professor
                        Libya ground attack by Eurofighter

                        The Predator could do the same, and even better, the ancient Phantom

                        Where is the justification for the cost of the 100 millionth fighter, its high performance characteristics, super-radars with headlights and super maneuverability.

                        Such facts of "combat use" are a mockery of these magnificent machines. They do not allow any conclusions to be drawn about the real capabilities of modern aircraft and ships.
                      6. -1
                        14 February 2015 11: 33
                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        the sinking of the prehistoric Belgrano did not provide any data for assessing the combat capabilities of nuclear-powered submarines in modern submarine warfare

                        The fact of participation in hostilities is undeniable.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        The Predator could do the same, and even better, the ancient Phantom

                        The fact of participation in hostilities is undeniable.

                        Quote: SWEET_SIXTEEN
                        Such facts of "combat use" are a mockery of these magnificent machines. They do not allow any conclusions to be drawn about the real capabilities of modern aircraft and ships.

                        The experience of combat use is invaluable, everywhere and always.

                        Namesake, it was nice to talk. Enough with this thread. All the best. drinks
            2. gjv
              +4
              9 February 2015 13: 38
              Quote: professor
              I can show you Ax optics, but you can show Iskander optics which are hidden in "Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without large aerodynamic surfaces"? How about target designation? Where does the picture come from?

              And what is so impossible in Iskander optics! (Photos, visible locks for the pres-cap and the camera under the glass dome)
              The ax flies at extremely low altitudes with an envelope of the terrain, of course, he often needs to look so as not to get lost.
              The Iskander missile flies along a ballistic trajectory. Where to stare at the sky "in a cage" ("in diamonds")? As the ballistic section ends on approaching the target, the protective pre-cap is thrown off: "But this street, this house ..." And the taxiing engines turn on, both lower and closer, closer to the "friend" balcony ...
              1. -2
                9 February 2015 13: 48
                Quote: gjv
                And what is so impossible in Iskander optics!

                "Impossible" is target designation and thermal stability in dense layers of the atmosphere. If the second is solvable, then let me ask where the picture comes from (from the Predator?) And how does it end up in the memory of the GOS?

                Quote: gjv
                Iskander's rocket flies along a ballistic trajectory.

                Quasibalistic and wagging with overloads of 20-30g. It’s a sin not to miss.
                1. gjv
                  +2
                  9 February 2015 14: 56
                  Quote: professor
                  where does the picture come from (from the Predator?) and how does it appear in the memory of the GOS?

                  Rather, with the Bees (who knows exactly where, he is silent, or subject to life ...). And in Tomahawk, too, it’s not a dude-artist who sits and stuffs pixels, but all the same through electronic channels (well, or via fiber optic links).
                  Quote: professor
                  Quasibalistic and wagging with overloads of 20-30g. It’s a sin not to miss.

                  The missile conducts intensive maneuvering with overloads of the order of 20-30 units in the initial and final phases of flight.
                  Intensive maneuvering in the initial section is a turn to enter the ballistic flight path to the target after a vertical launch from the launcher. Intensive maneuvering in the final section is turns to get off the ballistic trajectory and approach the target. Overload 20-30g - a natural-mechanical phenomenon for flight speed Iskandernew missiles 7560 km / h. The main thing is that Iskander withstand these overloads, i.e. the quality of production of serial samples entering the troops.
                  Another thing is the flight of the Tomahawk at a speed of up to 880 km / h. Of course, Tomahawk will not have such overloads, even when he wags around the terrain and sudden obstacles.
                  And yet for Iskander sin is to miss!
                  1. -3
                    9 February 2015 16: 25
                    Quote: gjv
                    Rather, with the Bees (who knows exactly where, he is silent, or subject to life ...). And in Tomahawk, too, it’s not a dude-artist who sits and stuffs pixels, but all the same through electronic channels (well, or via fiber optic links).

                    The bee does not patch so far, and the preparation of the Ax is a lengthy task, and the means of American intelligence are quite developed.

                    Quote: gjv
                    And yet, for Iskander, it’s a sin to miss!

                    Well yes. At a speed of 7560 km / h, actively maneuvering while avoiding missile defense, it will be with 50% probability to fall into a circle with a radius of 7-9 meters. I believe. wassat
                    1. 0
                      10 February 2015 23: 15
                      Quote: professor
                      Well yes. At a speed of 7560 km / h, actively maneuvering while avoiding missile defense, it will be with 50% probability to fall into a circle with a radius of 7-9 meters. I believe.

                      With a neutron warhead, the task will cope
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. +3
                  9 February 2015 19: 24
                  Quote: professor
                  Impossible "is target designation

                  1. The Iskander missile launcher is capable of receiving information about the target assigned to hit from a satellite, reconnaissance aircraft or unmanned aerial vehicle (Reis-D type) to an information preparation point (PIP). It is calculated flight mission for rockets and carried reference preparation information for rockets.
                  2. The target can be defeated according to the target’s location, the cartographic (radar) data of the standard and those obtained from the 9E436 optical seeker are compared (the correction of the trajectory for reconciling the digital terrain map in the correction areas with the radio altimeter data) or the radar correlation seeker
                  If there are no tectonic shifts, the defeat will be at a point in the terrain, where (according to intelligence) is the target. And not "on purpose" as it is believed

                  3. The same principle will be implemented as the P³I I-BAT (or maybe already implemented)



                  4. In any case, there is an IDN, possibly on ADXRS150 (300), ADIS16120 (16250) from Analog Devices (AD, USA)
                  SPU 9П78-1: jobs for the operator of the topographic and navigation system and the calculation commander

                  Quote: professor
                  wagging with overloads 20-30g. It’s a sin not to miss.

                  These are stupid statements by uneducated zhurnalyug.
                  1. At this speed, nothing wags, you lose speed and range, even at altitudes of 50 km
                  2. Here in a bend the fighter (pilot) experiences an overload up to 12g - what does it "wobble", and the Proton PN up to 9g? also "wags its tail.
                  Choose an active trajectory with traction in the 15km section and get 20-30g
                  Make a small correction with the aerodynamic rudders at a speed of flight speed of 2100 m / s and get 20-30g, or even more.

                  3.
                  Quote: professor
                  heat resistance in dense layers of the atmosphere.

                  -The time spent in the "dense" is very short, after turning to the target with a dive angle of 90g

                  -brakes (resistance), the speed at the target - 700-800 m / s
                  1. -1
                    9 February 2015 19: 56
                    Quote: opus
                    . The Iskander missile system is capable of receiving information about the designated target from a satellite, reconnaissance aircraft or unmanned aerial vehicle (Reis-D type) to the information preparation point (PIP).

                    Which satellite? What are you talking about? The reconnaissance aircraft must first land and show the film. Russian modern drones do not fly so far, and Flight D must also show a little film.

                    Quote: opus
                    2. The target can be defeated according to the target location, the cartographic (radar) data of the standard and those obtained with the optical seeker 9E436 are compared

                    optical correlation GOS 9E436 - developed by TsNIIAG (Moscow), the missile is guided by the reference image of the target, similar to the GOS missile 8K14-1F. GOS was first presented at Eurosatory-2004.
                    GOS weight - 20 kg
                    Flight mission input time - no more than 5 min
                    QUO - up to 20 m


                    Quote: opus
                    These are stupid statements by uneducated zhurnalyug.

                    Do you want to say that it doesn't "wag"? What about the super-duper interceptor deviations then?

                    Quote: opus
                    -The time spent in the "dense" is very short, after turning to the target with a dive angle of 90g

                    How much is heated from a height of 50 km?

                    PS
                    Why didn't anyone mention Iskander's "successful" debut in Georgia? request
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. +1
                      9 February 2015 20: 18
                      Quote: professor
                      Which satellite?

                      from "Tundra" to KOER "Persona" ("Quartz") through the space system of retransmission of digital information from the SC "Harpoon" ("Kosmos-2473")
                      Not everything is filmed on satellites of the "Don" and "Cobalt-M" (GRU) series, and they will soon be completely replaced by the "Person" component.

                      Quote: professor
                      and Flight D should also show a little film.

                      should not. Use old data
                      real-time transmission of information via the “Track-M” radio link.

                      As for Russian drones, it is not far away, except for them there are planes that are "far away."

                      Quote: professor
                      QUO - up to 20 m

                      So what?
                      Quote: professor
                      But what about super-duper deviations from interceptors?

                      Glutzposti, as well as maneuvering rz blocks of ICBMs.
                      In order to start wagging, you MUST KNOW that the radar is irradiating you.
                      And what will you "know"
                      There are of course (pre-programmed variations in deviation from a given trajectory, against missile defense. But this does not mean "wobbles"
                      It’s just that the speed is great, as is the height, with a relatively low EPR, there’s no way to intercept

                      Quote: professor
                      How much is heated from a height of 50 km?

                      Tell me how much time passes in the dense layers of the atmosphere and which section I will report.
                      On the knee: "+ 250gS"
                      Quote: professor
                      Why didn't anyone mention Iskander's "successful" debut in Georgia?


                      Did you have to?
                      There seems to be TRK TOCHKA-U was:


                      1. -1
                        10 February 2015 08: 05
                        Quote: opus
                        from "Tundra" to KOER "Persona" ("Quartz") through the space system of retransmission of digital information from the SC "Harpoon" ("Kosmos-2473")

                        EMNIP then "Tundra" is not yet in orbit, and "Person" was in orbit only 2 (two !!!) pieces, and the first was irretrievably lost in February 2009. This is not serious.

                        Quote: opus
                        real-time transmission of information via the “Track-M” radio link.

                        As for Russian drones, it is not far away, except for them there are planes that are "far away."

                        I doubt very much about flight-D, otherwise they would not have sent the Tu-22 to death in Georgia. EMNIP then on planes is still a film.

                        Quote: opus
                        QUO - up to 20 m
                        So what?

                        Duc even with GOS no longer write about the CVO in 5-7 meters.

                        Quote: opus
                        Tell me how much time passes in the dense layers of the atmosphere and which section I will report.
                        On the knee: "+ 250gS"

                        I am not an expert in this matter, but something tells me that from a height of 50 km at such a speed, the fairing should warm up more. I remember how the Scuds "shone". It was clearly over 250 degrees.

                        Quote: opus
                        Did you have to?
                        There seems to be TRK TOCHKA-U was:

                        However, the remains are attributed to the Iskanders:

                      2. 0
                        10 February 2015 14: 43
                        Quote: professor
                        EMNIP then on planes is still a film

                        Tu-214ON is no longer a film! Accordingly, the last Su ...
                      3. -1
                        10 February 2015 14: 46
                        Quote: Rus2012
                        Tu-214ON is no longer a film! Accordingly, the last Su ...

                        Tu-214ON over the battlefield? Oh well... wink
                        And what a picture on Su I myself saw.
                      4. 0
                        10 February 2015 17: 21
                        Quote: professor
                        And what picture on Su I myself saw

                        you could not see the latter in any way :)
                        Quite ...
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. +1
                        10 February 2015 17: 45
                        Quote: professor
                        EMNIP then "Tundra" is not yet in orbit

                        EMNIP:
                        - immediately launch 2 in 1 quarter2015, and 2 in 3 quarter and 4 quarter.

                        - while shooting iskanders not for anyone
                        = The IDF’s Air Force has long been studying the possibility of equipping air bases with micro-satellites, which can be launched in case of war. These are small satellites weighing no more than “several tens of grams”, which can be very quickly put into orbit.
                        We are "also studying"
                        -about "person":
                        = TsSKB-Progress has completed the assembly of another apparatus of the Persona series. Launch 1 Quarter 2015
                        = there is a “Meridian”, 14Ф138 “Lotus-S” and 14Ф138 “Lotus-1С”
                        = there are dual-use satellites (tn "civil")


                        Quote: professor
                        This is not serious.

                        1. When Israel started with Sherman M-51, now it is building Merkava 4
                        2. Israeli SG (such as Ofek-9 and TecSar) will not provide accurate guidance or guidance, however



                        Cope
                        3. I will repeat: guidance is not for the purpose, but for the LOCATION of the GOAL on the terrain (known and mapped), so it’s enough:
                        "In addition, the film shows how a saboteur, who was somewhere near this group of militants, most likely somewhere in 300 meters on the roof or in the window of the house, was" aiming "a missile at the target with a laser marker."
                        Just tell the coordinates of the target and what it is
                        4. The complex is not intended for shooting at moving objects.
                        Quote: professor
                        otherwise they would not have sent Tu-22 to death in Georgia.

                        it was a long time ago, 6 years have passed
                        - not to death, but to BZ.
                      7. The comment was deleted.
                      8. +1
                        10 February 2015 17: 47
                        Quote: professor
                        Duc even with GOS no longer write about the CVO in 5-7 meters.

                        Who?
                        Tactical missiles?
                        Well, and an example?
                        You are confusing with CD and with an air-to-ground missile
                        1. Ranges are not the same
                        2. The speeds are not the same

                        Quote: professor
                        I'm not an expert in this business,

                        Read about Trident 2 test shooting on a flat trajectory. Or I'll emboss the article if they miss.
                        Quote: professor
                        I remember how the Scuds "shone"

                        1.I don’t remember, I didn’t see
                        2. Determine the body temperature at which it is at ambient temperature t0 = 23 ° С radiated energy xnumx times morethan absorbed.


                        Quote: professor
                        However, the remains are attributed to the Iskanders:

                        OBS?
                        LIE! Shota, moreover, does not inspire confidence, the famous balabol, like Mishiko.
                        SIMPLY: study release and locations based on time and here is the answer
                      9. -1
                        10 February 2015 20: 59
                        Quote: opus
                        will launch immediately 2 in 1 quarter 2015, and 2 in 3 quarter and 4 quarter.

                        when they launch then we’ll talk

                        Quote: opus
                        Israeli SG (such as Ofek-9 and TecSar) will not provide accurate guidance or guidance, however

                        They cope by means of which Russia does not yet have.

                        Quote: opus
                        it was a long time ago, 6 years have passed
                        - not to death, but to BZ.

                        In 6 years, secret invisible drones have appeared? And then BZ was a clear death.

                        Quote: opus
                        guidance not on purpose, but on LOCATION OF GOAL on the ground

                        Here they are going to shoot at artillery batteries. laughing

                        Quote: opus
                        Who?
                        Tactical missiles?

                        Above in the article: By virtue of its conventional equipment, the Iskander-M has the ability to directly hit the target (deviations in 5 ... 7 meters are compensated by the power of the warhead).

                        Quote: opus
                        I don’t remember, I didn’t see



                        Quote: opus
                        OBS?

                        Even the photos spread:

                        9K720 Iskander - SS-26 STONE



                        Command-gyroscopic device (gyro-stabilized platform), automation unit and on-board computer (DAVU) on 9M723 missiles of the Iskander complex. Photo from the area of ​​the Georgian-Ossetian conflict (August 2008) and still from the films of the "Shock Force" series
                      10. 0
                        10 February 2015 21: 13
                        Quote: professor
                        when they launch then we’ll talk

                        In the meantime, let’s get over the GRU data, that’s enough. I assure
                        For convenience, we’ll take mapping from Germany, 87% is already completed in the highest resolution.
                        =======================
                        Americans, by the way, do not have so many "have"

                        Quote: professor
                        They cope by means of which Russia does not yet have.

                        American, in tihushku. In an arrogant claim that the United States "has nothing to do with it"
                        Quote: professor
                        Here they are going to shoot at artillery batteries

                        CASSETTE, opening height 2500м
                        Quote: professor
                        Above in the article

                        In the "article" the author, with some kind of prepug (or from a great mind), compares Pershing-2 with Iskander-M, only on the basis of the fact that both are on a wheelbase (different), I advised him to compare with Topol-M (silent, apparently looking for an argument)

                        "Video" Patriot Sun Scud.
                        EVEN NOT FUNNY.
                        1. Where is the "luminosity" of the heated body more than 250grC?
                        2. From everything that I saw, I see the torch of the warhead marshaler, or the "etching" of the residues to provide a given trajectory, or the "exhaust" of the TNA 9D21 (without afterburning), or the "exhaust" of the BIP generator, or all together.
                        In a skad, warheads cannot be separated from the body

                        Flight time - 165-313 s (50-300 km)
                        Active flight time - 90 s (maximum range), 48 s (minimum range)


                        Taking into account the height of the interception, it looks like they "hit" the 90sec zone.

                        And the speed is 1400 m / s (at the final stage). Here and "make it" glow ")
                        Flight time - 165-313 s (50-300 km)
                        Active flight time - 90 s (maximum range), 48 s (minimum range)

                        Quote: professor
                        Even the photos spread:

                        why only photos?

                        and Musolat, the same with, but in different ways.
                      11. -1
                        10 February 2015 21: 24
                        Quote: opus
                        American, in tihushku. In an arrogant claim that the United States "has nothing to do with it"

                        Their own. I even wrote articles about this.

                        Quote: opus
                        CASSETTE, opening height 2500м

                        With targeting a problem, no GRU will help. Here you need an eye in real time.

                        Quote: opus
                        .From everything that I saw, I see the torch of the warhead marshaler, or the "etching" of the residues to provide a given trajectory, or the "exhaust" of the TNA 9D21 (without afterburning), or the "exhaust" of the BIP generator, or all together.

                        It’s strange. This exhaust appeared when approaching the ground and the closer the brighter.

                        Quote: opus
                        why only photos?

                        There is no doubt that the Point was shooting there, but they claim that the remains are from the Iskander. request
                      12. 0
                        10 February 2015 23: 28
                        Quote: professor
                        Their own. I even wrote articles about this.

                        Yeah? Which ones?
                        Quote: opus
                        Ofek-9 and TecSar
                        Sholey?

                        Quote: professor
                        There is a problem with targeting,

                        Chew snot (in a circle). Guidance on the terrain, on the coordinates of the target LOCATED IN THE AREA.ATTACHED TO LOCALITY
                        In principle: everything is the same, well, taking into account our "wretchedness" essno.


                        And that the target appeared there, even a farmer can give a go-ahead on the mobile

                        Quote: professor
                        It’s strange. This exhaust appeared when approaching the ground and the closer the brighter.

                        For "those in the boat"
                        1. Not "at the ground" - no la-la. I shot and saw the falls live, and collected the "fall results", in the OZK, among other things, and the muzzle
                        2. What do you think is "Near the Earth"?

                        / height remind? /
                        3. I brought the original data for "Scud". As everyone (even Psaki probably) knows, Saddam's specialists "modernized" them.
                        what and how?
                        Well Duc "rummage" you will find, your friends have all the infa: I will not be surprised that the standard cutoff was absent and everything was squeezed dry, just to make shit (get it, that is)

                      13. The comment was deleted.
                      14. 0
                        10 February 2015 23: 41
                        Quote: professor
                        but here they claim to be the remains of an Iskander.

                        "A lot of things happen here." They say, for example, that the T-72 was scolded by a merkab (oh fuck 4 or 5 models?) Almost a dozen (or maybe more) and a couple of dozen Abrams in the same place (in all your conflicts)
                        And what to believe this?
                        / And Australia does not have pl /

                        / and special opinion about the 6 generation /

                        And "Thor" knocks down TR "Point-U"

                        someone claims that Central Design Bureau Almaz & Co. has no patents for Zubr

                        / It's a pity one of the "creators" is now on the operating table, but so that the epukhs were before the prosecutor's office of the Russian Federation
                        Do you believe all that "claim"?
                      15. -1
                        11 February 2015 08: 50
                        Quote: opus
                        Yeah? Which ones?
                        Quote: opus
                        Ofek-9 and TecSar?

                        Yes not ... Hermes, Girona and smaller birds.

                        Quote: opus
                        Chew snot (in a circle). Guidance on the terrain, on the coordinates of the target LOCATED IN THE AREA. ATTACHED TO THE AREA

                        Who is arguing about this? The debate is about how you recognize this artillery battery in this area, because in Germany there will not always be a local farmer who is also an experienced artillery worker whose GDP recruited in his youth. wink

                        Quote: opus
                        How do you think it is "Near the Earth"?

                        I do not know. However, Scud "near the ground" quickly slaps on it, then an explosion, well, as in the video.

                        Quote: opus
                        3. I brought the original data for "Scud". As everyone (even Psaki probably) knows, Saddam's specialists "modernized" them.
                        what and how?
                        Well Duc "rummage" you will find, your friends have all the infa: I will not be surprised that the standard cutoff was absent and everything was squeezed dry, just to make shit (get it, that is)

                        May be. I am not an expert and therefore I ask those who know more about me how much the fairing of Iskander or Scud is heated.

                        Quote: opus
                        someone claims that Central Design Bureau Almaz & Co. has no patents for Zubr

                        For the sake of accuracy, who is interested in whether there is a patent that has violated Ukraine and China, and as it turns out there is none since Russian law does not yet apply to the territory of the latter two, as some would not like. wink

                        Quote: opus
                        Do you believe all that "claim"?

                        In God we trust all others bring data
                        So these photographs personally I have some doubts that these are the remains of the Points ... hi
                      16. The comment was deleted.
                      17. 0
                        11 February 2015 12: 24
                        Quote: professor
                        Yes not ... Hermes, Girona and smaller birds.

                        1. This is not a satellite constellation.
                        2. They will not be able to work on the enemy's territory (unless it is Syria, which is being pinched from all over).
                        Georgia failed
                        -Ukraine does not pour in the Crimea.
                        -I so suppose that after a DECENT understanding of shkodlivosti they will be hunted by the Yak-52
                        -------------
                        Suitable for unpunished "treatment" of horseless (air defense, IA) Palestinians

                        Quote: professor
                        after all, there is not always in Germany a local farmer who is also an experienced artillery man whose GDP recruited in his youth

                        -Well, it won’t get to Germany (the author’s systematic mistake in comparing these missiles)
                        -To the position area SM-3 in Poland, according to the RCC battery in Poland, according to the administrative centers of the Young European = yes.
                        - about the "farmer": I can't "open up", in fact, everything is simple. wink

                        Quote: professor
                        who is interested in whether there is a patent that has violated Ukraine ... because Russian legislation is not yet applicable

                        - there are patents, I brought them (part). The fact that Feodosia was transferred to technological maps, which were slightly retouched and translated into their own language, after 8 years they spanked "their" patents.Does not mean anything.
                        Give me the same thing on the iron dome + supply of components and for 6 months there will be a Russian patent from 2015 for these creations, and the LCD will cover Donetsk or Lugansk
                        -GC RF, Chapter 72. Patent Law: Article 1385, Article 1394, Article 1395, Article 1396, Article 1397, Article 1401, Article 1405, Article 1406,
                        Federal Law "On the State Atomic Energy Corporation" Rosatom "(no need to think that there is only about the" atom ")
                        - Neither American nor Israeli legislation SAME DOES NOT ACT in the territory of Russia. And what?

                        Quote: professor
                        However, Scud "at the ground"

                        The video does not show the luminosity from the deceleration of air molecules at the ends of the modernized Scud TR.
                        At World Cup 50-70 km

                        Quote: professor
                        how much the fairing of Iskander or Scud is heated.

                        I wrote. There, not only the fairing, but the entire TR. If they TP flew at such a speed for a long time (as the SR-71 is permissible, then
                        Quote: professor
                        So these photographs personally I have some doubts that these are the remains of the Points

                        And you look at the FIRST photos of Tr that flew into the house of the genatsvali.
                        And ISKANDER WASN’t nearby: just see the schedule for setting up on the DB and WHERE.
                      18. -1
                        11 February 2015 13: 38
                        Quote: opus
                        1. This is not a satellite constellation.

                        Your videos were not made from satellites either.

                        By the way, Israel has its own satellites, and not as you allude to American.

                        Quote: opus
                        Suitable for unpunished "treatment" of horseless (air defense, IA) Palestinians

                        Shamanov complained that in Georgia drones flew with impunity. They are working quite successfully on Syria and Iran.

                        Quote: opus
                        Neither American nor Israeli legislation SAME DOES NOT ACT in the territory of Russia. And what?

                        But the fact that if tomorrow Russia will copy, say, the LCD despite its patentability in Israel, then shouting later on Russia's copyright infringement is simply stupid.

                        Quote: opus
                        The video does not show the luminosity from the deceleration of air molecules at the ends of the modernized Scud TR.

                        In your opinion, how much do they heat up? Are they aluminum?

                        Quote: opus
                        And you look at the FIRST photos of Tr that flew into the house of the genatsvali.

                        Looked. The point is this. However, the debris from another photo (and like a ball) is not from the Point.
                      19. 0
                        11 February 2015 22: 39
                        Quote: professor
                        Your videos were not made from satellites either.

                        primary guidance from satellites. So they say in Israel

                        Quote: professor
                        By the way, Israel has its own satellites,

                        What kind? Repeat:
                        Quote: opus
                        Ofek-9 and TecSar


                        Or am I missing something?
                        ALL INFU YOU ARE LITTLE AMERICANS

                        Quote: professor
                        Shamanov complained that drones in Georgia

                        It was ANOTHER country, ANOTHER army, ANOTHER president, finally.
                        Could you imagine (in 2008) that the DPR, LPR (in the aggregate 2,5mln population) and several tens of thousands of volunteers -GIVE TRENDULES, to a country (with 43 million population) HAVING 2 (I am not mistaken) in terms of number of army in Europe? And 5-6 in the world?
                        Me not.
                        Quote: professor
                        then shouting later about copyright infringement by Russia is simply stupid.

                        Israel still will be. Well, the Americans are shouting, ours about China.
                        By the way, I want to touch on the topic:
                        1. Russia Sun Georgia (received a spear). Israel helped before and after
                        Israel is all Syria, Russia wants to help Syria (and helps little by little) - ISRAEL SCREAMS. "Where is the truth Zin"?
                        2. Would it be worthwhile for Israel to help Georgia and spoil relations with Russia, when such a promising market is under its "feet"?
                        Doesn't Israel seem to sanction?
                        After all, I want to (I. would get a LOT)? YES! But the unknowing says the Washington Regional Committee.
                        And if you look in your Middle East, everything would be different if you hadn’t been IN.

                        Quote: professor
                        In your opinion, how much do they heat up? Are they aluminum?

                        250GRS-300GRS maximum. the time is too short., and the turn on the target is relatively high.
                        / So TR RK "OKA" "flew" - I don’t think that something has changed

                        (range scale of course conditional)

                        About Al. - I won’t say it. My opinion is not. But not fiberglass. I won’t say it again.
                        Judging by the scheme and photo (Point U and Iskander are very similar)

                        It seems not.
                        R&D "WAVE" can find ....

                        Quote: professor
                        (and like a ball) not from the Point.

                        This one?

                        1.This is not a "ball" but a hemisphere, the upper part of the solid rocket motor
                        2. Isn't 973 Explicit?
                        3.And why in some grass, without reference to the general plan, when ALL the rest of the tripe in the house?
                      20. -1
                        12 February 2015 07: 50
                        Quote: opus
                        primary guidance from satellites. So they say in Israel

                        This is not true. The width of Gaza is already 12 km. Balloons always weigh on the border, and at least 24 drones above Gaza itself 7/2.

                        Quote: opus
                        Or am I missing something?
                        ALL INFU YOU ARE LITTLE AMERICANS

                        If this were so, then Israel would not have spent hundreds of millions of dollars ON ITS satellites, after all, and so "ALL INFU USED BY AMERICANS."

                        Quote: opus
                        It was ANOTHER country, ANOTHER army, ANOTHER president, finally.
                        Could you imagine (in 2008) that the DPR, LPR (in the aggregate 2,5mln population) and several tens of thousands of volunteers -GIVE TRENDULES, to a country (with 43 million population) HAVING 2 (I am not mistaken) in terms of number of army in Europe? And 5-6 in the world?
                        Me not.

                        How different. Aircraft carriers, invisible drones, 3rd generation ATGMs, 18-month-long soldiers with KMB, etc. wink
                        And let's leave off topic who gives pretzels to the Ukrainian army and this open secret.

                        Quote: opus
                        Israel still will be. Well, the Americans are shouting, ours about China.

                        No, not screaming. China tore off Spike, and in Israel, peace and quiet. Iran tore off Hermes and again not a single charge.

                        Quote: opus
                        This one?

                        And this one?
                      21. The comment was deleted.
                      22. 0
                        12 February 2015 12: 43
                        Quote: professor
                        It is not.

                        For what I bought, for that I sell it. I read in Israel: the Americans gave the first tip (for those purposes in the video that we are discussing)
                        Quote: professor
                        then Israel would not spend hundreds of millions of dollars on its

                        1. hundred million $ is not that for "sputnikOV".
                        Launch 1 PH from 100mln $ + Mon itself
                        2. Get acquainted with the satellite group of Israel (in stock, not plans), and everything will be clear
                        3.Americans cannot (a priori) ensure Israel’s complete need for a satellite constellation: orbital inclination, American interests not always = Israeli interests, etc.
                        I put it wrong: Not "all", but "most" so more accurately
                        Quote: professor
                        How different.

                        Another. Remember the trek through the gorge. Everything has changed.

                        Quote: professor
                        and this open secret.

                        Also a secret to me. One chatter.
                        The presence of volunteers (personnel), by the way, I do not deny.
                        But the trendy people give nice local guys. Formed, something new (this is my opinion)

                        Quote: professor
                        No, not screaming.

                        Did not know.
                        Maybe Israel earns on the supply of components?
                        that's why it is silent

                        Quote: professor
                        And this one?

                        1.Do not know. All photos taken
                        http://militaryphotos.net/
                        and cut frames from the video series "Impact Force"
                        I think the installation
                        2.At the same time, Tochka-U and Iskander appear in strikes against Georgia. As if there are many "launches", but the result (hit) is almost one
                        What for?
                        3.The Iskander deployment was "far away"
                        4. First there is a Point, then Iskander pops up
                      23. -1
                        12 February 2015 16: 43
                        Quote: opus
                        For what I bought, for that I sell it. I read in Israel: the Americans gave the first tip (for those purposes in the video that we are discussing)

                        This is not true. There is no such need for Gaza. Take a look at the map. Everything is already visible there.




                        Quote: opus
                        1. hundred million $ is not that for "sputnikOV".
                        Launch 1 PH from 100mln $ + Mon itself

                        This is a lot for Israel, and if the United States supplied Old, then this money would have been spent on Ibirats.

                        Quote: opus
                        2. Get acquainted with the satellite group of Israel (in stock, not plans), and everything will be clear

                        I got acquainted. It exists to be independent of anyone in obtaining intelligence information.

                        Quote: opus
                        Another. Remember the trek through the gorge. Everything has changed.

                        Yeah. I believe. lol

                        Quote: opus
                        Did not know.
                        Maybe Israel earns on the supply of components?
                        that's why it is silent

                        It doesn’t scream for the simple reason that it is useless, and supplying spare parts for your stolen product is stupid and dangerous.
                      24. -1
                        12 February 2015 08: 03
                        By the way, I want to touch on the topic:
                        1. Russia Sun Georgia (received a spear). Israel helped before and after

                        After that, he did not help as Russia asked. She asked, not demanded. Russia, in turn, continues to supply weapons to Syria, "friendly" to Israel, and simply spat on requests not to supply Yakhonta, for example. This is the relationship. request

                        Israel is all Syria, Russia wants to help Syria (and helps little by little) - ISRAEL SCREAMS. "Where is the truth Zin"?

                        Israel screams when arms are being delivered that can fall into the hands of Hezbollah (namely, it assad and pays Nasrallah for support) and is able to change the balance of power. Russia spat on the cries of Israel.
                        "Where is the truth Zin"? Why Israel does not supply weapons to Georgia, refused to supply drones to Ukraine, and Russia spat on Israel's "shouts". Then Ukraine urgently needs to supply drones from the Sky Rider to Hermes, Spike, radars, Spiders and Derby, Keshet and Atmos, Samsons and Matadors ...

                        2. Would it be worthwhile for Israel to help Georgia and spoil relations with Russia, when such a promising market is under its "feet"?

                        When Russia asked not to help Georgia, Israel stopped helping, violating business agreements with Georgia.

                        Doesn't Israel seem to sanction?

                        ?

                        After all, I want to (I. would get a LOT)? YES! But the unknowing says the Washington Regional Committee.

                        Already received. Thanks no longer needed.

                        And in a difficult moment when Moscow helped the enemies of Israel to destroy Israel, it was the Washington regional committee that came to the rescue. Suggest forget it? Can you forget how Russia now votes in the UN Security Council on anti-Israeli resolutions?

                        And if you look in your Middle East, everything would be different if you hadn’t been IN.

                        On BV it will be as it will and nothing can be changed.
                      25. The comment was deleted.
                      26. 0
                        12 February 2015 12: 59
                        Quote: professor
                        After did not help

                        I did not know
                        Quote: professor
                        requests not to deliver for example Yakhont

                        Yachts against the Americans and Co. You that. Is Israel not going to participate in coalition operations?
                        Quote: professor
                        ?

                        in the sanctions against Russia is not involved?
                        Quote: professor
                        Already received

                        And what do we have to do with it?
                        I mean MONEY.
                        Israel (which, it must be admitted, has made significant progress in UAVs, GOS, FOG, compact AFAR), and which has a lot of its own (like the French), not related to the United States, could become the official "supplier of His Majesty's court"
                        Quote: professor
                        And in a difficult moment when Moscow helped the enemies of Israel to destroy Israel, it was the Washington regional committee that came to the rescue.


                        -I always thought it was a mistake, they put on the wrong "horse"
                        - "Be afraid of the Danes ..." Americans never do "just like that"
                        Quote: professor
                        Can you forget how Russia now votes in the UN Security Council on anti-Israeli resolutions?

                        Each year, the General Assembly unanimously adopts from 6 to 9 resolutions against Israel, hundreds gather dust in the archives
                        (300 resolutions against Israel, and against Israeli policies, the Security Council issued 225 resolutions on Palestinian territory, Lebanon and Syria that condemned this regime, but they were banned.) Everything is ignored / It reminds me of the game
                        -----------------------------
                        And what will happen on BV-xs. I definitely don’t understand this tangle.
                        I think many are already tired.
                      27. -1
                        12 February 2015 17: 19
                        Quote: opus
                        Yachts against the Americans and Co. You that. Is Israel not going to participate in coalition operations?

                        Seriously? Is there a friend-or-foe identification system installed on Yakhonts, and is it programmed to distinguish Israeli civil and military ships as "friendly"? wink

                        Quote: opus
                        in the sanctions against Russia is not involved?

                        So far, there are no sanctions in which Israel could participate.

                        Quote: opus
                        could become the official "supplier of the court of his majesty"

                        So that later the same weapons would be with the enemies of Israel? Already passed it. They delivered the SLA to South Africa, and then she sold them to Syria.

                        Quote: opus
                        "Fear the Danes ..." Americans never do "just like that"

                        And who said that they do it for free? Paid for everything.

                        Quote: opus
                        Everything is ignored / It reminds me of the game

                        "Ignored" because the US, not Russia, is vetting. Where is Russia's goodwill? Where is the protection of hundreds of thousands of Russians living in Israel?



                5. Alexiuss
                  0
                  14 February 2015 14: 44
                  The bear is a doctor, he suddenly calmed down,
                  In Israel, their abyss.
                  There are gynecologists alone,
                  Like dogs uncut.
            3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +4
      9 February 2015 10: 44
      "... IMHO Iskander is dangerous only with a special warhead. One F-16 carries" 12 Iskander "...
      You are comparing an airplane to a missile system. And how many then f-16 carries "whirlwinds"? They compared it to the wrong one.
      1. +4
        9 February 2015 11: 55
        He fell into the abyss of lies and contradictions himself (Either planes in the open air are not standing, then in the photo showed how many f-16s - and everything is dense in the open).
        Professor rot!
      2. +1
        9 February 2015 11: 55
        He fell into the abyss of lies and contradictions himself (Either planes in the open air are not standing, then in the photo showed how many f-16s - and everything is dense in the open).
        Professor rot!
    5. +6
      9 February 2015 12: 59
      That is, Israel would not mind having Syria's Iskander in conventional equipment?
      1. -4
        9 February 2015 13: 40
        Quote: clidon
        That is, Israel would not mind having Syria's Iskander in conventional equipment?

        Privative This complex will instantly be at Hezbollah.
        1. 0
          9 February 2015 14: 54
          That size and complexity? Does Hezbollah already have Mig-29?
          1. 0
            9 February 2015 16: 21
            Quote: clidon
            That size and complexity?

            Yes.

            Quote: clidon
            Does Hezbollah already have Mig-29?

            I do not see the connection.
            1. 0
              9 February 2015 23: 53
              And I see - for some reason, you think that the complexes of high complexity can end up at the Hezbollons, so why don't they immediately get a couple of planes at their disposal. It's all so simple.

              PS Remind me please - did Hezbollah have OTR "Luna" and (or) "Tochka", P-11 in service? Did they shoot them?
              1. -1
                10 February 2015 08: 24
                Quote: clidon
                And I see - for some reason, you think that the complexes of high complexity can end up at the Hezbollons, so why don't they immediately get a couple of planes at their disposal. It's all so simple.

                Airplanes cannot be hidden.

                Quote: clidon
                PS Remind me please - did Hezbollah have OTR "Luna" and (or) "Tochka", P-11 in service? Did they shoot them?

                Hezbollah even has analogs of Scuds in service, and this will be more serious for you OTR "Luna", "Tochka" and R-11. They haven't fired yet, but they promise to do so in the near future.
                1. 0
                  10 February 2015 09: 09
                  It will not work to hide, but to use it once, with great impact, yes. But for some reason everything is postponed. As well as the use of "Scuds". Everything is like the little things.
                  1. 0
                    10 February 2015 09: 30
                    Quote: clidon
                    It will not work to hide, but to use it once, with great impact, yes. But for some reason everything is postponed. As well as the use of "Scuds". Everything is like the little things.

                    But the pilots, then you will be flying simulators all this time, and the strip will be disguised as vineyards? wassat
                    1. 0
                      10 February 2015 10: 45
                      Well, the strip can be used once, and pilots in friendly countries will practice. But what effect is not on the freshest aircraft.
    6. +1
      9 February 2015 15: 18
      Quote: professor
      "accumulations of armored and aviation equipment"

      the clusters are destroyed by the Hurricane and the Smerch with a cassette warhead. Moreover, each cassette element is self-guided ...
      1. -1
        9 February 2015 16: 27
        Quote: Rus2012
        the clusters are destroyed by the Hurricane and the Smerch with a cassette warhead. Moreover, each cassette element is self-guided ...

        However, the range of the mentioned complexes is not comparable with Iskander.
        1. +1
          9 February 2015 17: 10
          Quote: professor
          However, the range of the mentioned complexes is not comparable with Iskander.

          ... the last, far beyond 120km
          Yes, and Iskanders are also equipped with this type of cassette :)
  5. -2
    9 February 2015 08: 04
    Pershing had another unpleasant ability.
    His warhead could penetrate the ground up to 100m and be blown up there.
    A seismic shock wave effectively and at a long range destroys underground defenses.
    1. +2
      9 February 2015 10: 51
      Quote: armored optimist
      Pershing had another unpleasant ability.
      His warhead could penetrate the ground up to 100m and be blown up there.
      A seismic shock wave effectively and at a long range destroys underground defenses.

      ... After the photos of our mine launchers got to the Americans, they increased the warhead power by an order of magnitude, since they were not able to destroy the mine even with a direct hit.
    2. +1
      9 February 2015 15: 26
      Quote: armored optimist
      His warhead could penetrate the ground up to 100m and be blown up there.

      ... these are the machinations of the Yankov MRCT.
      A nuclear warhead cannot penetrate 100 meters into the ground without consequences for the structure. Too high shock overloads, too "delicate" design of a nuclear weapon.
      If the surface is protected and reinforced with M1000 reinforced concrete, it will not penetrate even more than 10 meters, and without "initiation"!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +3
        9 February 2015 21: 01
        Quote: Rus2012
        Too high shock overloads, too "delicate" design of a nuclear weapon.


        The Pershing-2 rocket was supposed to use two types of warheads - the usual power of up to 50 kt and penetrating into the ground. The second option was distinguished by high elongation and high strength and was made of high strength steel. At the speed of approach of the warhead to the 600 target m / s, the warhead deepened into the ground at approximately 25 m.

        This is a regular (in the "casing") W85

        inside something like this:



        And the elongated earth-penetrator W86 was not shown to us ...
        But "the world is not without good people", here it is


        Tk power (according to TTX) varied in 5-50 kT so consider how much it was there, less than 50ct (which is natural, but more than 5 ct (which is understandable), the rest went to the generator


        Quote: Rus2012
        too "delicate" design of a nuclear weapon.

        Thermal test of Pershing II W86 Earth Penetrator
        This is what kind of charge reduction method to take. If spherical (highest efficiency), then yes.
        And if the cylinder-piston principle (for YaZMM-MARV) then do not care.
        You can even say the turnover, save on explosives


        ----------------------------
        100m friend of course bent, but 10 m special.
        1. +1
          9 February 2015 21: 50
          Quote: opus
          This is what method ...
          100 the friend certainly bent, but 10 m special


          in addition to the charge, there is a lot of delicate elemental base - sensitive to shock loads and overloads - batteries ... especially initiators.

          To "pierce" 10m of M1000 reinforced concrete (especially a granite massif), which the Yankees do not have and did not have, not even a super-hard steel alloy is required, but at least a tungsten monolith ...

          * At least the numbers of amers should be divided by 5
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. 0
            9 February 2015 23: 28
            Quote: Rus2012
            sensitive to shock loads and overloads - batteries ... especially initiators.

            let me recommend the "Fourth Protocol" for reading, although there is not a W86 Earth Penetrator, but the charge in it is practically the same.
            I wrote about the initiators: cylinder-piston, the compression during puncture of the obstacle will be less than with the explosion of the centuries.
            And not the battery there, but the capacitor.
            Electronics from the BIP, but everything has already taken off after the finish of the 2 stage

            about overloads ... I don't know how much Pershing has, Sprint has -99g

            Quote: Rus2012
            which the Yankees do not have

            Americans have: shotcrete, D2000
            With new generation heavy-duty concrete with low cement consumption, they have been working for a long time, from skyscrapers and bridges

            More than 500 thousand reinforced concrete road bridges with various spans were built in the USA (and we prefer cable-stayed, steel)
            and they were going to pierce OUR

            Quote: Rus2012
            not even a superhard alloy of steel, but at least a tungsten monolith ...

            Armor-piercing 2MB and GBU-28 (30м)

            (by the way: no electronics "fly")




            Quote: Rus2012
            * At least the numbers of amers should be divided by 5

            I don’t know. I didn’t "catch"
            These are not psaki opuses, for denyuzhku will ask and strictly
  6. +6
    9 February 2015 08: 10
    no matter what they say, but the perchings wrote at least how many bad songs about them, and the rocket really was a masterpiece, at first I thought that maneuvering warheads were our invention, I was surprised that at pershings it was still a bunch of bucks years ago.
    but if I’m not mistaken, the S-300V (?) were designed to fight Lance and Pershing.
    1. +1
      9 February 2015 10: 01
      Quote: just explo
      but if I’m not mistaken, the S-300V (?) were designed to fight Lance and Pershing.

      Well, then everywhere in the literature on C-300В Pershing was not mentioned, usually OTR Lance.
      Pershing 2 was really a splinter for the sake of removal of which they made terrible sacrifices.
      Unfortunately, now we have a "friendly" China at our side, which with its MRBM keeps at gunpoint all of our Siberia and the Far East, and we have nothing to answer ...
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. +4
        9 February 2015 14: 16
        Quote: Nayhas
        Well, then everywhere in the literature on C-300В Pershing was not mentioned, usually OTR Lance.


        Mentioned. But not C-300В. This is an army. Not his goal and task

        And Pershing and the Kyrgyz Republic (especially): С-300П, С-300ПМ
        and of course ZUR 48Н6

        Moscow missile defense could intercept Pershing -2: speeds are several times less than ICBM warheads, the EPR is similar. Problem: response time to start, several times shorter

        In accordance with the 1972 ABM Treaty, the Moscow ABM system could have up to xnumx anti-missile launchers, i.e. their number was comparable to the number of deployed infantry fighting system "Pershing-2"

        Quote: Nayhas
        Unfortunately, now we have a "friendly" China at our side, which with its MRBM keeps at gunpoint all of our Siberia and the Far East, and we have nothing to answer ...


        "Thanks" to Mikhail Sergeevich:
        First, what did M. Gorbachev come to power - stopped work on the creation of the complex "Speed". Ready for flight tests of the launcher and rocket samples were subsequently quietly destroyed. Naturally, the question of relocating the Pioneer PGRK launchers to Chukotka has never been raised again. The 99th motorized rifle division, forgotten by all, remained in Anadyr and remains there to this day.

        D. Ustinov and the then unchanged Commander of the Strategic Missile Forces V. Tolubko prepared another unpleasant surprise for the United States. In the process of preparing a surprise in 1984 in Chukotka, in the Anadyr region and the special underground construction Portal, the 99 Motor Rifle Division was preliminarily redeployed under the pretext of protecting strategic airfields in Anadyr, but its true purpose was different. The 99 Division was supposed to provide cover, guard and, if necessary, defense of the Pioneer PGRK units, whose emergency relocation to Chukotka by air and sea was planned to be carried out simultaneously with the deployment of the Speed ​​PGRK to the German Democratic Republic and Czechoslovakia.

        The Lightning radar station Clear of the Beamyus missile attack warning system (SARS) located in Alaska, the Cobra Dane SARS on Shemiya Island, the Parks SARS in North Dakota - virtually all the radars that control in the USA, the north-west missile direction, the Bangor nuclear missile submarine base near Seattle, is the most important similar facility on the west coast of the United States. AND?
        And China (North)

        Trigger detection ballistic missiles from high latitude arctic regions using satellites of the American space system Imeus located in geostationary orbit, difficult.

        And wherever it is, the Courier ICBM would help
  7. +9
    9 February 2015 08: 54
    I will also add on my own. Our designers have already made an analogue of Iskander! Then it was called the Oka Oka. Since Yabch, the range of destruction was 500 km. The complex did not fall under the treaty on medium-range missiles. But Labeled and Shevardnadze "merged" it to the delight of the Americans ...
    1. +3
      9 February 2015 10: 01
      and Oka is not Iskander’s grandfather?
  8. +1
    9 February 2015 09: 23
    It’s interesting how quickly Iskander can be reconfigured to a range of 1.5 thousand km.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. +2
      9 February 2015 15: 57
      Quote: bmv04636
      It’s interesting how quickly Iskander can be reconfigured to a range of 1.5 thousand km.


      Iskander-K But not with P-500, and with the "other" KR
      / Winning in range, losing in speed /

      The first launch of the R-500 rocket with the 9X78-1 SPU was made at the Kapustin Yar 29 training range on May 2007.

      Test launch of the R-500 missile of the Iskander-K complex, Kapustin Yar test site, probably 231 sites, May 29, 2007 (4 GTSMP MO of Russia, 2011)

      - 1998, - the state security agencies of Russia prevented the leak of secret documentation on the product P-500 Design Bureau of Engineering in Kolomna
  9. +3
    9 February 2015 10: 03
    Quote: Magic Archer
    I will also add on my own. Our designers have already made an analogue of Iskander! Then it was called the Oka Oka. Since Yabch, the range of destruction was 500 km. The complex did not fall under the treaty on medium-range missiles. But Labeled and Shevardnadze "merged" it to the delight of the Americans ...

    OKA is not an analogue of Iskander, rather the opposite. The maximum range of the OKI is 400 km. In general, the 9K714 "OKA" missile system was a successful replacement for the outdated 9K72 "Elbrus" or, in NATO terminology, "Scud-B"
    1. +2
      9 February 2015 10: 16
      400 km is with a high-explosive warhead, and with apple 500km. So both Oka and Iskander are similar in range. So Oka is Iskander’s forerunner. If it weren’t destroyed then Iskander would be a replacement hi
      1. +4
        9 February 2015 10: 43
        Volodya, I studied "OKU" both theoretically and practically. The range assault rifle is set to a maximum range of 400 km. In 1987, the Americans were shown the capabilities of the complex before destruction. A range of 407 km was specially introduced into the control system and the command did not pass.
        Range:
        - 50 km (minimum, 9М714)
        - 300 km (9М714К)
        - 400 km (9M714B, according to TTX)
        - 500 km ("Oka-U", up to 700 km at the design stage)
        The height of the upper point of the trajectory is 120 km
        The rocket speed at the end of the active section of the trajectory is 4 M
        Warhead speed at the final stage - 10 M
        As you can see, 500 km was at the design stage. soldier
        1. +2
          9 February 2015 11: 02
          Well, since there was practice, I take your word for it, Vyacheslav! Thanks for the correction. In some sources, the range from the apple is indicated by 500 km hi
          1. +2
            9 February 2015 11: 24
            drinks thank! It was nice to talk!
  10. mehmeh
    -2
    9 February 2015 10: 54
    You can only scare the hunchback with these perches.
    Yes, they needed more reason to surrender themselves
    They are about the possibility of counteraction and did not trade (
    Decided at the Politburo Yakovlev Shevardnadze humpback
    In a morgue, a country like that in a morgue.
    If Pershing would have found something else (
    A pig will find dirt everywhere. and a traitor an occasion to betray (
  11. +4
    9 February 2015 10: 58
    Quote: professor
    Of course, only little use will come of it. Armored vehicles are not affected by such ammunition, and aircraft are no longer held in the open air. So it’s better to protect such an expensive missile for more valuable and vulnerable purposes.



    Professor, study carefully the materiel. Among the warheads of the 9M723K1 missile there is a fragmentation-fragmentation cluster cartridge that perfectly affects armored vehicles. Do not consider our engineers more stupid than yourself, with anything, and they are familiar with the tasks of a tactical missile system no worse than you. In addition to this warhead, there is a very powerful volume-detonating, for which the most aircraft technology in caponiers.

    There is also exoticism - warheads with separate warheads of individual guidance, very effective in firing armored vehicles dispersed over a certain area.

    Of course, Iskander was not created to hunt for tank columns, but maybe that too. Although its tasks are airfields, radars, military equipment parks, and military infrastructure facilities.
  12. +12
    9 February 2015 10: 58
    The small, deadly masterpiece of the Martin Marietta company dismayed the entire Soviet generals and party elite of the USSR. In the case of the outbreak of war, the Persing-2 MRSD “knocked out” in a few minutes all the most important military and civilian infrastructure in the territory of the European part of the USSR. There was no way to defend against a terrible threat. Nuclear parity has been broken.
    There was no confusion. There was a concern. And there was some confusion in the West after Andropov stopped negotiations on the RMND in 1983, expressly stating that Pershing-2 and Tomahawks were being put under the guise of negotiations in Europe. And not just stopped negotiations, but took practical measures: the SS-20 divisions went to Poland and Czechoslovakia urgently. I remember those times well ....
    And I remember how, after the surrender of everything and everything to Gorbachev, statistics appeared on missiles destroyed by the launch method: a scanty number of emergency launches of Soviet missiles and the beyond at Pershing.
    Incl. Pershing's "masterpiece" could have been purely advertising, incl. and with the aim of creating "confusion among the Soviet generals and the party elite of the USSR" ..
    1. +2
      9 February 2015 15: 27
      SS-20 never went beyond the borders of the Union; it has nothing to do in Czechoslovakia and Poland. He from Belarus and Ukraine kept all of Europe
    2. +1
      10 February 2015 09: 46
      Quote: tolancop
      And not just stopped the negotiations, but took practical measures: the SS-20 divisions went to Poland and Czechoslovakia urgently. I remember those times well ....

      The "pioneers" in the socialist countries had nothing to do, but the supplies of the Oka under the Andropov decision were to the GDR, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Romania, with conventional warheads, of course.
      1. 0
        10 February 2015 14: 45
        Quote: Wheel
        but deliveries of the Oka according to the Andropov decision were to the GDR, Czechoslovakia, Bulgaria and Romania, with conventional warheads, of course

        ... besides this, there were their Oka in the Western groups of troops.
  13. +5
    9 February 2015 11: 03
    in fact, "Pershing" from a military point of view were not terrible for the USSR. The point was different - with a huge advantage of the USSR in conventional weapons, only Pershing and tactical nuclear weapons in Europe equalized the chances of an attack by the USSR.

    And they themselves are that in those years that now were only an object of concern for the air defense system, and their total number was quite tough for air defense.

    The situation changed only with the collapse of the USSR, when the preponderance in conventional weapons passed to NATO, and the presence of medium-range missiles and the Kyrgyz Republic began to play in favor of the Russian Federation.
  14. 0
    9 February 2015 11: 09
    Pershing and Iskander work differently:
    Iskander flies along a flat trajectory, and Pershing
    makes a "slide".
    Pershing can be intercepted on the lift site, and Iskander
    in the middle section.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. 0
      9 February 2015 15: 33
      Quote: voyaka uh
      and Pershing makes a "slide".

      What is a "slide"?
      Hop above the radio horizon, what would you want to catch the radio contrast target of the seeker?
      The hill before the attack of the ship, what would be used to overcome the ship?
      -------------------------------
      The flight path of Pershing-2 passes through three sections - initial (marching) - ACTIVE, middle and final (homing) - PASSIVE (correction only)

      Classic ballistic missile trajectory. With the apogee under 300km and flight time 7-8 minutes
      No slides
      Quote: voyaka uh
      Iskander flies along a flat path

      The stump is clear: the 9M723 (-1) rocket is single-stage with a non-detachable warhead, the sustainer solid propellant engine works almost the entire trajectory (like the Tochka- ")


      Quote: voyaka uh
      Pershing can be intercepted in the lift section, and Iskander in the middle section.

      This statement is tender.
      Pershing (on the lift) should be intercepted for 1700km?
      THAN? MIG-31 with air refueling?
      Iskander -M (in the middle section), taking into account that the "section" is from 400 km, the average is probably 100 km after the start and 100 km to the target. This is about 200-300 km to the target at altitudes from 26 km to 50 km).
      THAN?
      GBI? (direct from bases in California?)
      SM-3? (from Orly Burke, moored upira in Gdynia?)
      Patriot-3 cruising on the territory of Poland? - Bad luck: it will not capture, it will not intercept, it will not reach) ..

      --------------------------------
      Pershing is intercepted (theoretically) from С-300П (with missiles 48Н6) and missile defense of Moscow, at the final stage. Over target
      Iskander-M (9M723) maybe thaad. at the final stage. Over the target.
      If he will be there of course.
      Well, or RDG before starting
  15. +1
    9 February 2015 11: 34
    "... In the memory of the on-board computer, four reference images of the target area for different heights were stored, recorded in the form of a matrix, each cell of which corresponded to the brightness of a given area of ​​the terrain in the selected radio wave range. Comparing the received data with the stored radar maps, the warhead determined its current position and error of ANN ... "

    According to what has been written, we put in the supposed point of attack passive radio reflectors in the working range of the missile’s radar and ... the missile cannot determine its position.
    1. +1
      9 February 2015 11: 53
      Here, too, it seemed strange to me -Reb modern -strong thing ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +1
      9 February 2015 16: 19
      Quote: Avenich
      According to what was written, we put in the supposed point of attack passive radio reflectors in the working range of the missile’s radar and ... the missile will not be able to determine its position

      Even if you somehow manage to fool the system produced by Goodyear Aerospace (DSMAC, Automatic target recognition, Radar imaging, Topographic map), although I can’t imagine HOW I can SIMULATE THE RADAR image of the underlying surface and targets with the help of dipole reflectors, THE INS WILL STOP (inertial navigation system). And the rocket hits the target, though not with such accuracy

      DSMAC and other tricks- THIS IS ANS ONLY CORRELATORS
      Quote: Avenich
      the rocket cannot determine its position.

      ANN drum passive or active reflectors and other radars, as well as FAU-2
      1. +1
        10 February 2015 09: 56
        Quote: opus
        then ANS (inertial navigation system) will REMAIN. And the rocket hits the target, though not with such accuracy

        In Pershing, radio navigation was a priority.
        With a mismatch of the warhead pictures, let's say, it was somewhat "lost".
  16. +1
    9 February 2015 12: 03
    It’s interesting, but if we have a battle with EMP for Iskander
  17. +3
    9 February 2015 13: 55
    Quote: Author
    Despite the difference in age and purpose, both missiles are very close in size (length / max. Diameter of the hull: “Iskander-M” - 7,2 / 0,92 m, “Pershing-2” - 10,6 / 1,0 m), and the twofold difference in them starting mass (3,8 vs 7,4 tons) not is of particular importance in terms of their basing.

    From the point of view of their basing (according to the author's version), it is not very important to compare, one can compare the MGM-31C Pershing II and the Topol-M ICBM / Or YARs.

    It is necessary to compare MGM-31C Pershing II and Temp-S (9K76, OTR-22)



    Or PGRK "Speed" (but it surpasses Pershing in range) - "THE HORROR OF EUROPE"


    Quote: Author
    Despite three times the difference in flight range (1770 vs. 500 km), radius of destruction of both ballistic missiles large enough on a compact Europe scale

    What a garbage, "you think 3 (!) Times." Pershing could reach Moscow, and Iskander-M, at best, to Warsaw.
    Pioneer (SS-20) think 3 times further than Pershing -2 (and can break in London), they are the same (according to the author essno), within Europe. Moreover, the basing method is equivalent ....

    "radius of destruction" BR - WHAT? or how?

    Quote: Author
    It will fly from Kaliningrad to Warsaw in 2 minutes 22 seconds.


    And why in this Warsaw - do it?
    What did Iskander-M forget there? Polish Foreign Minister to be punished for the "Ukrainian front"?

    Quote: Author
    Smooth, streamlined ammunition with small dimensions, without aerodynamic surfaces of a large area.


    I don’t remember anything (except for the FAU-2 except that) TR with a nonsmooth with a streamlined body, with large dimensions and aerodynamic surfaces of a large plane








    Quote: Author
  18. +2
    9 February 2015 15: 06
    Sorry, but the author compared the ass with a finger.
  19. +2
    9 February 2015 15: 17
    There was talk of a certain R-500 cruise missile that could be mounted on the Iskanders. With a range of more than 2000 kilometers, it covers all of Europe.
    1. 0
      9 February 2015 15: 59
      Quote: Velesovic
      with a range of more than 2000 kilometers, it covers all of Europe.

      R-500 , 500 rangekm


      2014 September 20 - During the Vostok-2014 command-staff exercise, the Iskander-M missile system was fired for the first time in the Eastern Military District. Ballistic missiles of 9M723 type and 9M728 cruise missiles were launched by the 107th separate missile brigade (Birobidzhan). Range to the target according to the source was xnumx km - Both missiles successfully hit the target.

      Warhead mass - 480 kg
      Airspeed - 230-260 m / s
      Flight Duration - 24 min (when starting 29.05.2007 g.)
      QUO - about 1 m
      Deviation on the route - up to 30 m (when starting 29.05.2007 g.)
      ================================================== ============
      Do not make TP launch weight, kg - 3 800, with warhead 480 kg at a distance of 1500km with a LAND START
      1. 0
        9 February 2015 17: 16
        Quote: opus
        Do not make TP launch weight, kg - 3 800, with warhead 480 kg at a distance of 1500km with a LAND START

        ... with a starting mass of 3800x480 - maybe not, if without an accelerator ...
        And "long", especially 150kg - is easy :)
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. 0
          9 February 2015 18: 50
          Quote: Rus2012
          And "long", especially 150kg - is easy :)

          What does "long" mean?
          SPU 9P78-1 is limited in length


          for overall dimensions 9М728 can not get out (this was the question)

          And 150kg ...
          1. Not everything is so simple, a decrease in warhead mass by 3 times will not lead to an increase in the range of the complex by 3 times
          2.And you need to throw on 1500km warhead weighing 150kg?
          I don’t understand, of course, that Russia is the largest holder of tactical nuclear weapons in the world.

          And something like MADM W-45 weighing 181 kg per 15 ct is very easy to do (yes they are for sure) for 9M728.
          only now can they always be bullet?
          1. 0
            9 February 2015 19: 34
            Quote: opus
            "long"

            Compare the length of the P500 and the PK "Caliber" ...
            They are "single mode"
            1. 0
              9 February 2015 23: 33
              Quote: Rus2012
              Compare the length of the P500 and the PK "Caliber" ...


              So the caliber does not strike at 1500km ...
              1. +1
                10 February 2015 15: 34
                If my memory serves me, then back in 2011 firing from the Buyan was carried out at a target at a distance of 2500 km. Yes and why not? Oversized specifications are larger than an ax flying one and a half thousand kilometers, warheads are larger, there will also be a larger fuel supply. So why shouldn't some ZM-54N fly over 1500-2500 km?
            2. 0
              9 February 2015 23: 33
              Quote: Rus2012
              Compare the length of the P500 and the PK "Caliber" ...


              So the caliber does not strike at 1500km ...
              1. 0
                9 February 2015 23: 49
                And how much does he hit?
              2. 0
                9 February 2015 23: 50
                Quote: opus
                So the caliber does not strike at 1500km ...

                Club no, because export. Caliber Marine - Yes!
                Differs in length ...
  20. +5
    9 February 2015 15: 32
    Author! Do not be shy, otherwise you can hear panic notes and delight in the description of "pershing". One gets the impression that the author agrees to all concessions to mattress mats, just not to revive the missiles with new technologies?
  21. +2
    9 February 2015 17: 49
    Quote: Mercenary
    Author! Do not be shy, otherwise you can hear panic notes and delight in the description of "pershing". One gets the impression that the author agrees to all concessions to mattress mats, just not to revive the missiles with new technologies?

    I fully support it. On my own I want to add: there is no need to sprinkle ashes on your head - we are already preparing a response to a possible resuscitation of the Pershing. According to some reports, the Rubezh ICBM being developed with a missile defense penetration complex is capable of performing MRBM missions - with a certain desire, its range can be less than 5,5 thousand km. It is no coincidence that in recent years from the side of mattress makers cries have been heard about Russia's violation of the INF Treaty. Well, the appearance of Iskander showed that the task of bringing the air defense to a minimum level by our designers is quite solvable. So don't panic.
  22. +1
    9 February 2015 19: 44
    An interesting discussion. I have such a philistine question. By deploying the Pershing, the United States was clearly trying to upset the status quo not only in Europe, but in general, upset the balance of power, which Andropov mentioned. Why didn’t the issue of the new deployment of Soviet RSD in Cuba be considered as a response? After all, the situation is largely similar to the situation in 1962. If the deployment of Jupiters in Turkey caused an adequate response in the form of the deployment of RSD in Cuba, then why should the situation with the Pershing should not lead to a revision of the agreements made during the Caribbean crisis? If you are putting a muzzle to our temples, then we have the right to do the same, no?
    1. 0
      9 February 2015 21: 34
      Quote: Crabio
      Why didn’t the issue of the new deployment of Soviet RSD in Cuba be considered as a response?

      ... relations with Cuba were ruined. An adequate answer could only be - BR with nuclear submarines from the coastal zone.
  23. +2
    9 February 2015 19: 57
    Quote: Rus2012
    we all the time forget about "Blue" and "Bulava" in combat mode of dagger launch point-blank from the coastal zones of 3,14ndostan. The impact time is less than 10 minutes. A salvo from 16 missiles with an interval of less than 20 seconds.
    The impact is not detected until the moment the rockets leave the horizon line ...
    Fast, simple and cheerful! The answer may not take place.

    soon Sarmat will also replace the old Voevode ... then it will be very good
  24. +1
    10 February 2015 00: 13
    Quote: clidon
    But even if he said - "the installations have left", what's next?

    my classmate served on the Oka, carried a database in the western group, and they knew at any time of the day or night where their personal Pershing was ...

    Pershing-2 could not silently take and disappear, could not start from any point on the route, could not be in the field for a long time.
    In addition to the counted number of several batteries - for all the time they did not go out into the field ...
    1. 0
      10 February 2015 09: 16
      It sounds like fiction from a demobilization. How did he know what their goals were? Reported to them on the RAM?
      But it is good, even if such a miracle happened and the Pershing could not disappear - the Stirlitz and special forces discovered their loss, figured out where "all all" installations were hidden. And it is even known that they were brought to full combat readiness. The friend knows where his pershing is, everyone is waiting for the signal. And then the Pershing fires a volley, the war begins. They're first strike missiles.
      1. 0
        10 February 2015 13: 54
        Quote: clidon
        They are the first strike missiles. Everything flew!

        ... firstly, a fellow student, was a cadre.
        Secondly, the base of goals is constantly changing.
        Thirdly, the Oka, as it were, did not belong to the Strategic Missile Forces, although the principles of the database were similar.
        Fourth, how do you think it was necessary to treat the weapons of the first strike? Only preventive, before they leave the PU! By the way, several hours before that there were only a few hours-minutes ...
        Look, even in I-net there was a story about one case.
        Similarly, b. operate PGRK "Speed" (department of the Strategic Missile Forces).
        The Iskanders will also act against missile defense facilities and control centers ...
        Otherwise, what for they are needed.
  25. 0
    10 February 2015 18: 03
    Quote: TheMi30
    What a blatant lie about airplanes, he himself recently posted photos from airfields, "nirazUNEvAngare". It doesn't matter, runway damage will be quite significant. Armored vehicles on the ground are in grinding, the damage will be significant. And no one is going to shoot at the column on the march, so do not wander around and do not make yourself an idiot by thinking about how ridiculous it is to shoot at a tank in the field with an Iskander.

    I agree that during the flying time it’s not that they don’t have time to drive the equipment out of the park, even the alarm uniform is not a fact that they’ll put it on. Those. warheads will fall at congestion sites, full warehouses and sleeping barracks. At both sides.
  26. +1
    10 February 2015 23: 26
    The author compared tactical and strategic weapons. For this article I do not plus.
    In general, I always enjoy reading articles by Oleg Kaptsov
    1. John Silver
      0
      8 March 2015 16: 20
      I agree with the first part of +1. Minus article.
  27. John Silver
    0
    8 March 2015 16: 22
    The article is based on the articles of the Pravda newspaper and tells about the arms race, not about missile weapons. Basically, the Pershing were designed to contain the Pioneers and against the Warsaw Pact command centers, and the Pioneers were intended to destroy the strategic goals of NATO in Europe. Hence the difference in size, weight and power of the warhead. Iskander is a replacement for point-y, it can be used to neutralize Polish missile defense, but only conditionally, because Kaliningrad is easily covered by theater missile defense systems and Iskander may not fly out of there.
  28. 0
    24 November 2017 21: 07
    Do you think domestic missiles set range records with a full set of warheads?
    Moreover, even with max. throwing weight Trident-2 flight range was amazing. About 8 thousand km - none of his peers could do it (with 2,8 tons)


    Yes Yes.... laughing What about the P-39? Nervously smokes on the sidelines? tongue wassat