Military Review

Mud feat Panfilov not mess. Dmitry Yazov

210
In December of this year, not only the peoples of Russia, but also all citizens of the former Soviet Union will celebrate the 70 anniversary of the defeat of the Nazi troops near Moscow.


Having failed in the attempt to break through to Moscow, the Hitlerite command in the autumn of 1941 began active preparations for a new offensive, the main goal of which was the Soviet capital. The directive to carry out this operation, code-named "Typhoon", was signed by Hitler 6 September 1941 of the year. He saw this attack as the last, final blow of the united Europe on Soviet Russia. "In the band from the Far North to the Crimea, you are standing today along with the Finnish, Slovak, Hungarian, Romanian and Italian divisions ... Spanish, Croatian and Belgian formations are joining now, the rest will follow them," said Hitler in his October address to the soldiers Eastern Front. “The upcoming attack, for the first time, may be considered by all nations of Europe as a general action to save the continent ... Today, finally, a prerequisite has been created for the last cruel blow, which before the start of winter must crush the enemy, deal a mortal blow to it ...” .

Started historical The battle of Moscow, however, Hitler's plans were not destined to come true. At the end of October, the offensive rush of his troops ran out. Having reached the outskirts of Tula, Serpukhov, occupying Naro-Fominsk, Volokolamsk, Kalinin, the Nazi troops were forced to stop. Hitler immediately flew into the headquarters of Army Group Center, trying to figure out why his plans were slipping. As a result, the transfer of additional forces and assets from other sectors of the front and from Germany to the Moscow direction began.

November 16 attack on Moscow resumed, but this attempt to seize the capital of the Soviet state, as you know, ended in failure. Hitler's troops were stopped at the approaches to Moscow, and then thrown back on 100-250 kilometers. Under Moscow, 11 tank, 4 motorized and 23 German infantry divisions were then defeated. The Wehrmacht generals, including field marshals Brauchitsch, Bock, and Colonel-General Guderian, lost their posts to 35. These are undisputed historical facts.

It would seem that the question is clear. Thanks to the unparalleled resilience and heroism of the Soviet fighters and commanders, the commanding art of military commanders, the enemy at the walls of Moscow in 1941 was stopped and reversed.

Meanwhile, in some reputable periodicals, publications sometimes appear, seeking to defame the defenders of Moscow, questioning their feat in the fall of 1941.

So, 7 of July this year in Komsomolskaya Pravda under the general heading “Secrets of the State Archive” published an interview with the director of this archive, Doctor of Historical Sciences Sergey Mironenko, who, answering the questions of the correspondent, ridiculed the memory of the defenders of the capital, calling the feat of twenty-eight heroes Panfilov’s myth, asserting that “there were no heroically fallen Panfilov heroes”, referring to the fact that after the war “one by one people began to appear that were to lie in the grave”.

It turned out that not all "twenty-eight" were killed. Which of these? The fact that six of the twenty-eight named heroes, being wounded, shell-shocked, despite all survived the battle on November 16, 1941, is refuted by the fact that Dubosekovo was stopped at the junction tank enemy column rushing to Moscow? Does not refute.

Yes, indeed, it later became known that not all 28 heroes died in that battle. So, G. M. Shemyakin and I. R. Vasilyev were seriously injured and ended up in the hospital. DF Timofeev and I. D. Shadrin were captured by the wounded and experienced all the horrors of fascist bondage. The fate of D.A. Kouzhebergenov and I.E. Dobrobabina, also survivors, but for various reasons excluded from the list of Heroes and still not restored in this capacity, was difficult, although their participation in the battle does not cause the Dubosekovo junction doubt that convincingly proved in his study, the doctor of historical sciences GAKumanev, personally met with them. By the way, I recommend S. Mironenko to familiarize yourself with the book of Georgy Aleksandrovich Kumanev, “Feat and Forgery”.

By the way, the fate of these Panfilov heroes who were “resurrected from the dead” was the reason for writing in May 1948 a letter from the Chief Military Prosecutor Lieutenant General of Justice NPAfanasyev to the Secretary of the VKP (b) Central Committee A.A. Zhdanov, who was so shocked Director of the State Archive of the Russian Federation.

However, Andrei Aleksandrovich Zhdanov turned out to be more objective than S.V. Mironenko, who called himself an anti-Stalinist interview. He immediately determined that all the materials of the “investigation of the 28 Panfilov case”, set out in the letter of the Chief Military Prosecutor, were too clumsy, the conclusions of what are called “white stitches”. Employees of the military prosecutor's office clearly overdid it, trying to demonstrate their over-vigilance to the country's political leadership. As a result of the further course, the “case” was not given, and it was sent to the archive, where it was discovered by the historian Mironenko.

By the way, the correspondent of “Red Star” A.Yu.Krivitsky, who was accused of the fact that 28’s Panfilov’s exploit is the fruit of his author’s imagination, later, recalling the course of the investigation, said: “I was told that if I give up the testimony I completely invented the description of the fight in Dubosekovo, and that I did not speak to any of the seriously wounded or surviving Panfilov members before publishing the article, I would soon end up on Pechora or Kolyma. In such an environment, I had to say that the fight at Dubosekovo is my literary fiction. ”

Be that as it may, the feat of 28 Panfilov heroes during the war years played an exceptional mobilizing role. He became an example of resilience for the defenders of Stalingrad and Leningrad, with their name, our fighters repelled the fierce attacks of the enemy on the Kursk Bulge.

In my opinion, the feat of the fighters who stopped the enemy at the Dubosekovo junction is indisputable. Burnt enemy tanks speak for themselves. Another issue is that the number of heroes should not be limited to the number 28. In the defense zone of the 316 division, including at the Dubosekovo junction, the anti-tank defense system, created under the leadership of General Panfilov, effectively worked. Tank-dangerous directions were covered not only by tank destroyers, but also by artillery and engineering obstacles.

As a result, only in the defense zone of the 2 battalion of the 1075 rifle regiment that day the enemy’s 24 tank was destroyed and burned, and the enemy’s tank group was detained for more than an hour’s 4. At the same time, enemy tanks were destroyed in the area of ​​the village of Petelino and in several other places.

Today we kneel before the bright memory of the fighters and commanders who defended Moscow in the autumn of 1941, including the soldiers of the 316 Infantry Division of General I.V. Panfilov, the 32 and 78th Infantry Divisions of colonels V.I. .Polosukhina and APBeloborodova, the combined cadet school regiment them. The Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR Colonel S.I.Mladentsev, many other compounds and parts.

The “historian” Mironenko, who didn’t smell powder, dares to call the feat of the fighters and commanders of the Panfilov division who lost 9920 people (3620 killed and 6300 wounded) from 11 700, which were counted at the beginning of the battle, as a myth. By the way, the commander of the Army Group "Center" Field Marshal F. Bok in one of the reports of the 4 German Tank Group, General Colonel E. Hepner, called Panfilov "a wild division fighting in violation of all the charters and combat rules, the soldiers of which they do not surrender, are extremely fanatical and do not fear death. ”

In the battles near Moscow, thousands of Soviet soldiers gave their lives. Among them, the Hero of the Soviet Union, Major-General I.V. Panfilov, 22 from 28, well-known defenders of the crossing, Dubosekovo and many, many others. And this is the historical truth. Moscow was defended by people, many of whom laid down their heads in this terrible battle, this is not “fiction”, as S. Mironenko asserts in an interview with a reporter from a reputable newspaper, this is true, this is a bitter truth.

I deliberately put the word “historian” in front of the name of S. Mironenko in quotation marks, because I believe that a person who hates the history of his homeland, and judging by the publication of the “Komsomolskaya Pravda”, is just that, is hardly entitled to call himself a learned historian.

In the newspaper, an interview with S. Mironenko is illustrated with a reproduction of V. Pamfilov's painting “The Feat of the Panfilov Guardsmen” with the posting “other, real, and not made-up heroes defended Moscow in 1941.” Well, name these real heroes, tell about each of them - this is the task of the historian.
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  1. Foamas
    Foamas 16 September 2011 09: 44 New
    -20
    Yazov, how does one know how it really was? He did not fight near Moscow.
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 16 September 2011 11: 56 New
      0
      In, it surfaced ... In the forefront ... Right now, it will tell us how things really were.
      1. Foamas
        Foamas 16 September 2011 13: 25 New
        -7
        Tie the Irishman with rudeness, not in a tavern in his Voronezh. On the same site, there is an article with a different description of the events (http://topwar.ru/1225-28).
        1. Banshee
          Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 23 New
          -2
          1. I'm not Irish.
          2. I'm not rude.
          3. I do not care where and what else.
          4. I do not know where you come from, but it would also say.
    2. aleks
      aleks 16 October 2012 15: 19 New
      +1
      but Mirononenko fought only on whose side. And now he is fighting, on whose side? Vile. And mean.
  2. Isk1984
    Isk1984 16 September 2011 10: 38 New
    +11
    Yazov may not have fought, but it was probably not difficult for Marshal of the Soviet Union to conduct an objective study of materials from state archives, and it’s humanly that he was wrong that our heroes (and for me they are all heroes) stopped the enemy by displaying such qualities that we are so lacking today ...
    1. Marat
      Marat 16 September 2011 23: 52 New
      +3
      I support Isk 1984! The details are no longer important to me at all - the feat of 28 Panfilov’s may be embellished somewhere, but this is already a legend - an epic - a tradition - call it what you like - every nation has heroic epics - and this is our common epic

      All who "pick" are trying to "find the truth" to destroy the "myth" they are all of course enemies to one degree or another

      I pulled a fragment from the network - the 316th (8th Guards Rezhitskaya Red Banner Order of Lenin, the Order of Suvorov, the name of Hero of the Soviet Union, Major General IV Panfilov) a rifle division was formed in our city and it included fighters from Alma-Ata and Alma-Ata region.

      the park of 28 Panfilov’s guards is one of the most beautiful and most popular among us - and the monument to the Panfilov’s heroes is probably the most ambitious and impressive of the monuments in Alma Ata - it is very large and at the same time “airy” - “hanging”

      No wedding in Alma Ata is complete without laying flowers at the eternal flame at this monument. Today, a mass rally was advertised on radio and TV - the life and life of the Panfilov’s division were recreated in detail - uniform - tent camp - food - weapons -

      We all remember
      1. His
        His 17 September 2011 18: 50 New
        -2
        The main thing we broke them. And then the heroes would be the Nazis
  3. Rashid
    Rashid 16 September 2011 10: 41 New
    +8
    It is clear when the Europeans misinterpret historical facts - they almost all fought on the side of Hitler, but apparently this infection also penetrated the brains of our "historians". And this bacchanalia began back in the years of "perestroika", when in the magazine "Spark", other publications, articles began to appear revealing the "truth" about the Great Patriotic War, about other periods of our history. And this continues to this day! Articles, books, films - people are being processed continuously. It’s hard to confuse the adult generation (my father reached Prague, his uncle died near Smolensk), but the young people got the idea that the Germans would have won, we would have lived better. Maybe I'm wrong, you can’t speak for everyone, but if even a small part of people in Russia think so, it’s a disaster.
    1. Joker
      Joker 16 September 2011 10: 46 New
      +1
      I support. I don’t think that many people think so, but there are such people and this leads to conflicts within the country, within the people.
      1. ballian
        ballian 16 September 2011 11: 17 New
        -14
        Uh, ignoramuses - this epic tale about “28 Panfilovites” was exposed by the Soviet prosecutor’s office back in the 1948 year (in the USSR, of course, they didn’t publicly take it out), and one of the “28” even served as a police officer for the Germans
        http://magazines.russ.ru/novyi_mi/1997/6/petrov.html
        ===========
        Why Zhdanov did not give a course to the matter - obviously - and not at all because of "embroidery with white thread" as Yazov fantasizes (that is why the prosecutor turned to the Secretary of the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party of Bolsheviks, A.A. Zhdanov, so that he would give the go-ahead for the move affairs) What could Zhdanov “determine” from the report provided (by reference)? That's right - nothing.
        The fact that Krivitsky lied in three boxes is also obvious to anyone (but not for Yazov, who quotes his "excuses")
        The commander of the 1075th Infantry Regiment, Ilya Vasilyevich Kaprov, even then showed that everything described by Krivitsky was a complete invention, moreover, he did not even have the opportunity to find out what was real there.
        The regiment was defeated by the Germans in 4 hours and retreated with huge losses, the regimental authorities even wanted to judge for leaving positions and unjustified losses.
        1. ballian
          ballian 16 September 2011 11: 29 New
          -1
          Yazov’s fantasies - “In the defense zone of the 316 division, including at Dubosekovo’s junction, the anti-tank defense system created under the leadership of General Panfilov worked effectively. Tank-dangerous directions were covered not only by tank destroyer units, but also by artillery and engineering obstacles.”
          ___________________
          But what really happened, and not in Yazov’s fantasies. Kaprov - "The division was very poorly equipped, the situation with anti-tank weapons was especially bad; I had absolutely no anti-tank artillery in the regiment - it was replaced by old mountain cannons, and at the front I received several old French museum guns. Only at the end of October 1941 years, 11 anti-tank rifles were received on the regiment, of which 4 rifles were transferred to the 2 battalion of our regiment, which included the 4 company (company commander Gundilovich, political officer Klochkov) (...) The regiment had approximately 5 – 6 days WHO ozhnost burrow into the ground, as prepared positions were unusable, and we had to strengthen the defenses themselves, and, in fact, alter all over again. We have not had time to strengthen the position of "
        2. ballian
          ballian 16 September 2011 11: 33 New
          -10
          Yazov’s fantasies - “In the defense zone of the 316 division, including at Dubosekovo’s junction, the anti-tank defense system created under the leadership of General Panfilov worked effectively. Tank-dangerous directions were covered not only by tank destroyer units, but also by artillery and engineering obstacles.”
          ___________________
          But what really happened, and not in Yazov’s fantasies. Kaprov - "The division was very poorly equipped, the situation with anti-tank weapons was especially bad; I had absolutely no anti-tank artillery in the regiment - it was replaced by old mountain cannons, and at the front I received several old French museum guns. Only at the end of October 1941 years, 11 anti-tank rifles were received on the regiment, of which 4 rifles were transferred to the 2 battalion of our regiment, which included the 4 company (company commander Gundilovich, political officer Klochkov) (...) The regiment had approximately 5 – 6 days WHO ozhnost burrow into the ground, as prepared positions were unusable, and we had to strengthen the defenses themselves, and, in fact, alter all over again. We have not had time to strengthen the position of "
          1. ballian
            ballian 16 September 2011 11: 35 New
            -13
            testimony of the former commander of the 1075 infantry regiment, Colonel Ilya Vasilievich Kaprov, interrogated in the case of I.E. Dobrobabin 10 May 1948 year:
            .....
            “By November 16 1941, the regiment I commanded was on the left flank of the division and covered the exits from Volokolamsk to Moscow and the railway. The 2 battalion was defending: Novo-Nikolskoye settlement - Petelino settlement and Dubosekovo detachment. The battalion commanded Major Reshetnikov, I don’t remember the names of the political officer of the battalion; the battalion had three companies: 4, 5 and 6-I. (...) The fourth company was commanded by captain Gundilovich, political instructor Klochkov. (...) She occupied the defense - Dubosekovo-Petelino. In the company for November 16 there were 120 – 140 people. My command post was I’m driving around Dubosekovo at the crossing booth about 11,5 km from the positions of the 4 company, I don’t remember now whether there were anti-tank rifles in the 4 company, but I repeat that in the whole 2 battalion there were only 4 anti-tank rifles. On November 16, the division was preparing for an offensive battle, but the Germans were ahead of us.From the early morning of November 16 on November 1941, the Germans made a large air raid, and then strong artillery preparation, which especially hit the positions of the 2 battalion. At about 11 hours, small groups of enemy tanks appeared on the battalion site. In total, there were enemy tanks on the 10 – 12 battalion section. How many tanks went to the site of the 4 company, I do not know, or rather I can’t determine. By means of the regiment and the efforts of the 2th battalion, this tank attack of the Germans was repelled. In battle, the regiment destroyed 5 – 6 German tanks, and the Germans retreated. (...) Around 14.00 – 15.00, the Germans opened strong artillery fire on all positions of the regiment, and German tanks attacked again. Moreover, they went with a deployed front, in waves, approximately along the 15 – 20 tanks in the group. Over the 50 tanks attacked a section of the regiment, and the main blow was aimed at the position of the 2 battalion, since this section was most accessible to enemy tanks. For about 40 – 45 minutes, enemy tanks crushed the location of the 2 battalion, including the section of the 4 company, and one tank even went to the command post of the regiment and lit hay and a booth, so I could only get out of the way dugout; I was saved by the embankment of the railway. When I crossed the railway embankment, people who had survived the attack of German tanks began to gather around me. The 4 company suffered the most from the attack; led by company commander Gundilovich man 20 – 25 survived, the rest all died. The remaining companies suffered less. ”
            ....
            According to the same I.V. Kaprova, the number of German tanks destroyed by his regiment during their first attack was 5 or 6 vehicles. But the fact that during the second attack at least one more tank was destroyed, nothing is said. And this means that, most likely, this first attack was reconnaissance in battle, which allowed the Germans to identify the firing positions of Soviet artillery, which constituted the main threat to their tanks. And after all of them were destroyed by artillery fire, German tanks without any losses for themselves were able to break through the defenses of the 1075 rifle regiment.
            So for the German tankers this was the most common battle, not marked by any special losses. And therefore, they could hardly have known about the feat of the “28 Panfilov Heroes” who stood in their way.
            .
            And shortly after this battle against the command of the 1075 SP It was charged with unauthorized withdrawal from positions without an order and heavy losses to the regiment, which at that time could face the most serious consequences. (It seems that it was precisely because of this that A.L. Mukhamedyarov tried to equate the losses incurred by the regiment with the mythical losses of the enemy) However, this did not help: the commander and commissar of the regiment were removed from their posts, and another case was being prepared against them. And now it remains only to guess what fate could await them in the future, if not for the timely business trip of V. Chernyshev and V. Koroteyev to the headquarters of the 16 Army ... And if to be completely frank, we can safely declare that that their lives and their future careers were saved to a considerable degree by the myth published in the newspapers about the “28 Panfilov Heroes”, whose father commanders were I.V. Kaprov and A.L. Mukhamedyarov.
            .
            And about the “stopped” - I will quote Kaprov again: “.... Heavy battles broke out with German tanks, and the Germans had superior forces and equipment. In these heavy battles, the entire division and my regiment withdrew from superior enemy forces retreated to the Kryukovo station near Moscow. Departure continued until the first days of December 1941. "
            _________
            That is, after this battle, the division and this regiment retreated for two whole weeks. If the 4 hours that the Germans needed to defeat the regiment and turned it into a great feat, then the whole war can be called a solid feat.
            About the fact that even Yazov gritted his teeth through the teeth described by Krivitsky, although he continues to carry the old Soviet blizzard.
            1. подводник
              подводник 19 September 2011 12: 24 New
              -2
              AND WHERE FROM DO YOU SCOPE INFU ADVANCED FROM Pindosovsky SORTIER?
        3. Joker
          Joker 16 September 2011 11: 39 New
          +4
          I agree and supplement.

          I read this morning to the Herald of Democracy newspaper an article which was not there. They say (the most authoritative historians of Pindostana and the enlightened EUROPE) that there really was no Stalin either. And he was invented by Khrushchev to justify the creation of a nuclear bomb. However, the existence of Khrushchev in that article is also being called into question. It also says that Hitler was of course, but he was a scientist, and at the end of the war between Estonia and Spain (the Finns were in alliance with the Spaniards, and the Egyptians helped the Estonians) he was set up and made a world evil.

          wink
          1. ballian
            ballian 16 September 2011 12: 05 New
            -17
            I didn’t expect anything "smarter" in return. I didn’t think that on this specialized site there are so many ignorant people who are unable to find information and are not interested in anything other than "America parasha will be our victory."
            Well, the old man Yazov, who lives in the past, clearly can’t say anything sensible at the time, either he “stopped the enemy’s tank group”, “the enemy’s tank group was detained for more than 4 hours” —4 hours the time it took the Germans to defeat the regiment and continue the offensive. (details of the battle are known)
            You would at least have guessed on Wiki to type “Panfilovites” - ignoramuses.
            1. Smirnov Vadim
              16 September 2011 12: 21 New
              +11
              The trouble of Russia is, IMHO, that people like this ballian have divorced a lot in recent years - people with brainwashed do not believe what they understand, they see a catch in everything. Poor Russia!

              The patient will recover, drunk sober up, black-haired - will turn gray, but the fool will remain a fool.
              Sholom Aleichem
              1. Mesniy
                Mesniy 18 September 2011 09: 55 New
                -6
                Yes, you are brainwashed people. The Soviet ideology has grown a generation of zombies that can’t analyze anything at all! The person answered you specifically and reasonably, you answered stupid insults. You are not far-fetched limited people. And the realities of the past 20 years show - your fictional world collapses and shrinks like shagreen skin, all Sovdep myth creation has collapsed. Your air shock, internet sorry, is stupid and ridiculous. Now when the sources of information are open and available, people don’t get clogged with ideological rubbish, your behavior looks stupid and funny. your games in + and - that's all you have left.
                1. подводник
                  подводник 19 September 2011 12: 21 New
                  -1
                  WELL NOW ME ABOUT YOU EVERYTHING IS UNDERSTANDED!
            2. Joker
              Joker 16 September 2011 12: 22 New
              0
              You know, pouring mud, writing obscene articles about how bad everything is the easiest thing to do. Instead, it would be better to get down to business, for example, the restoration of events about exploits that are not known to the general public. There have been plenty of wars in which our people one way or another participated in the 20th century, so this is an uncultivated cornfield.
              1. Banshee
                Banshee 16 September 2011 12: 36 New
                -2
                Watering is easier. Nothing is needed for this. Breaking is not building. Spit - do not wash.
                Just okay, if the brain was washed, it even has something to wash ... There is a chance for recovery.
                And when something from the wiki was stuck in an absolutely virgin head ... All, drain the water, the march is over.
                The only consolation is that there are few.
              2. ballian
                ballian 16 September 2011 12: 36 New
                -8
                you couldn’t even help Post-Yazov admits that in the 48 year the prosecutor’s office dismantled all this - and you’re talking about some “Herald of Democracy” -
            3. hellbringer
              hellbringer 16 September 2011 12: 32 New
              +1
              Akhtung !!! An investigation is underway, who stopped the tanks near Moscow, from the aforementioned revelation from the Balan, the most plausible version of the alien democrats on flying saucers suggests itself ...
          2. Banshee
            Banshee 16 September 2011 12: 23 New
            +9
            I got too.

            Oh, what a pity that everything turned out so badly! There were no Panfilov heroes, there was no General Panfilov, there was nothing near Moscow except for a crowd of Asians, hastily sent from Uzbekistan and Tajikistan.

            And the Karpovs commanded them, who did not know how many fighters and anti-tank weapons they had that could not determine the number of the enemy (I wonder why intelligence is needed if they were digging for 5-6 days).

            And the guns were museum ... Here it is necessary to highlight in more detail: in 1, the world and civilians of the French, we did not seem to be observed. The British, yes, they were, I will not argue. The Germans were, Poles, Czechs. Probably, these guns were from the Museum of World War 1812 of the year. And they fired, respectively, cores. By tanks. Well, after the myth of the Polish cavalrymen who chopped up German tanks with drafts, I would not be surprised at anything.

            Further, according to Karpov. Fairly, apparently, they were going to judge. It is not clear what he did there
            Quote: ballian
            For about 5 – 6 days, the regiment had the opportunity to dig into the ground, as the prepared positions proved to be unsuitable, and we ourselves had to reinforce the defensive lines and, in essence, redo everything anew. We did not have time to properly strengthen the position, "

            That is, the regiment HAD the opportunity to strengthen, but did not, and during the 4 hour it was just that I had failed. Is logical. What did Karpov expect from the Germans? What will they come and ask if the Russians are ready for defense?
            You know, it was a war. There, you know, the one who is faster and smarter wins.
            Therefore, Comrade Karpov had to be shot just for the fact that he 6 days (the abyss by military standards) was engaged in the unknown.

            For comparison, go to the BUSU of any year and see what standard exists for digging fortifications. And it will become clear what Karpov was doing there. I think that I set up my personal dugout from which I had successfully escaped when a German tank that had broken through had set off the hay and the hut. The connection between the booth and the dugout is not visible, but it is possible to make a conclusion about Karpov’s moral and volitional qualities as a commander. Crap in full, then (I want to live it) began to weave tales.

            Just do not understand one. Let's go through the list:
            1. For the 6 days fortifications did not.
            2. Guns from the museum.
            3. From 50 tanks hit 5-6.
            4. The regiment was destroyed / defeated (by text).

            And now, attention, question:
            1. Where did the crushed regiment retreat 2 weeks?
            2. What did these 2 weeks of 45 German tanks, "roll out" the regiment of the coward Karpov? We consider that they spent 4 hours on this unfortunate regiment. What did they do the rest of the 336 watch?
            3. Why didn't they end up in Moscow? Who prevented all this? (Let's just no dull tales of frost, okay?).
            4. How did 2 of the week Karpov fought with the Germans? And How?
            5. Traditional. Why, if that was the case, did 9 December not have a flag with a swastika flying over the Kremlin? Why did he still (I understand your regret, but alas) find himself in the garbage in the streets of Berlin?
            1. Banshee
              Banshee 16 September 2011 12: 26 New
              +5
              It's simple. In addition to the carp, high, petrov were also Panfilov, Chernyakhovsky, Rokossovskie.

              Therefore, the last of the Third Reich can only shit on the Internet and water with poisonous saliva everything they reach.

              It is definitely people without a homeland, honor and dignity. Mud.

              P.S. I give the go-ahead: minus, bastards!
              1. Aktium
                Aktium 16 September 2011 16: 47 New
                -10
                And no one is "pouring mud." People are trying to figure out HOW really everything was. General Chernyakhovsky, for example, was the youngest general in the Red Army. Moreover, talented. The army of General Rokossovsky, by the way, consisted entirely of “penal battalions," like he himself. Or didn’t you know that he was sent to Moscow from the Soviet concentration camp?
                And your proletarian rudeness is already tired, in the end. The clowning is inappropriate. You are not shooting in the Soviet film, playing the role of a Bolshevik underground: "Shoot the fascists! Shoot the bastards!".
                1. Banshee
                  Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 57 New
                  -1
                  Do not like it - do not read. And there is nothing to scream.
                  Is it a style like that, putting on delusional facts (this is me about Rokossovsky) and considering yourself the most intelligent?
                  My so-called “proletarian rudeness” has bothered only a couple or three of the dirty themes of the past. Not like - exit in the upper right corner.
                  And do not teach me, somehow get along.
                  1. Aktium
                    Aktium 16 September 2011 17: 09 New
                    -10
                    Well, what are they crazy about? They don’t write about them in school textbooks? Only after you leave. The one who doesn’t want to study has no future.
                2. ytqnhfk
                  ytqnhfk 16 September 2011 23: 29 New
                  -2
                  Dear BEAUTY where it smells like German-Nazi sayings, you are like flies to honey, sorry not to honey, but to you, YOU understand !!!!!!!!!!!! How can they manage without you !! Well, and on the topic I’ll say BATTLES YES, I DO NOT WIN AT ALL !!! YES WE HAVE DRAWED HERE AND THIS ETC. And so on !!! And all sorts of ISSSTORIKI AND THEIR LIKE LET understand what they think up !!!
                3. vlbelugin
                  vlbelugin 17 September 2011 19: 37 New
                  -2
                  Penalties appeared in 1942
                4. подводник
                  подводник 19 September 2011 12: 27 New
                  -2
                  THERE IS ONE MORE!
              2. Banshee
                Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 59 New
                -2
                Thank you, once again confirmed ...
              3. Mesniy
                Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 02 New
                -5
                your hysteria is understandable and predictable. your fictional world is collapsing all the time. you see it but you’re even afraid to admit it. you have no arguments to deny the facts presented here. you start hysteria and insult. it’s stupid and unworthy. But it’s very funny that you expose yourself, it’s compensates for your inadequacy and has already smiled at me wink I think of others.
                By the way, here I plus or minus extremely rarely.
            2. ballian
              ballian 16 September 2011 13: 46 New
              -3
              What do you ask questions? You yourself can not find the Old? Do you have to report to you the battle course on the Volokolamsk direction and where should the 16 army retreat? Or do you think one regiment fought there?
              1. ballian
                ballian 16 September 2011 15: 06 New
                -3
                From the reference - report of the investigation of the case:
                .
                "The test in relation to this battle was carried out by the senior instructor of the 4 department of GlavPURKKA9 senior battalion commissar Minin, who in August 1942 of the year informed the Head of the Organizational Inspection Department of GlavPURKKA to the division commissar Comrade Pronin:
                "4 company of 1075 rifle regiment, in which 28 Panfilov heroes were born, occupied the defense of Nelidovo - Dubosekovo - Petelino.
                On November 16 of the 1941 of the year, the enemy, having preempted the advance of our units, went on the offensive at about 8 in the morning by large forces of tanks and infantry.
                As a result of battles under the influence of superior enemy forces 1075, the rifle regiment suffered heavy losses and moved to a new defensive line.
                For this withdrawal of the regiment, regiment commander Kaprov and military commissar Mukhomedyarov were removed from their posts and reinstated after the division left the fighting and was on rest and understaffing.
                .
                "museum cannons" - it is obvious that the regiment has in view - the old ones that are no longer being used in the army (apparently from the 1 world era), .- unsuccessfully "joke."
                1. Banshee
                  Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 13 New
                  -2
                  Quote: ballian
                  "museum cannons" - it is obvious that the regiment has in view - the old ones that are no longer being used in the army (apparently from the 1 world era), .- unsuccessfully "joke."


                  Very well. I climbed here, looked ... This is not hitting, enlighten, since you talk about it, then you have to think. For example, from somewhere, French guns came from us. Lay, you know in the museum, and outdated. Good. What are shooting from them? On the arms of the Red Army and the Soviet Army somehow there were no guns with caliber 75 and 105 mm. There were 76,2 and 100. And, if 100-mm projectile can theoretically be thrown into the 105 mm gun and at some point to shoot somewhere, then 76,2 in 75 is not a problem in any way.

                  What kind of a museum was opened for the sake of supplying the Karpov regiment, that there were French guns with ammunition lying on 75 mm?
                  1. Volkhov
                    Volkhov 18 September 2011 23: 49 New
                    -2
                    According to the memoirs march. art. Voronov, Stalin gathered artillerymen from the academy who had not yet been evacuated, and remembered that there remained 152 mm guns of the 19th century, which were approached by English shells of the 1st World War. The guns were buried on the hub and fired without sights at points selected in advance. The tank acted like a mine, the Germans preferred a detour.
              2. Banshee
                Banshee 16 September 2011 15: 59 New
                -2
                Hmm ... Why can't I ask a question? You have stated your point of view. Good. I do not agree with her, I have doubts about the testimony of Karpov, on which you rely. "Holes" in them a lot. That's why be kind, prove to me that I'm wrong, and indicate where.
                I announced my point of view.
                Let us now state your answer to my questions.

                By the way, they are not related to the Volokolamsk sector, not to the 16 army, but to a single regiment. Since we are talking about him. Complicated?
                1. ballian
                  ballian 16 September 2011 17: 06 New
                  -6
                  http://asww.org/content/view/176/34/
                  The gun is quite common, and also then in service in France, when near Moscow by November 41 of the year there were big problems with the equipment, they probably pulled the last out of the "bins" - if there is a gun there are shells for it.
                  Even assuming that he had everything really better with artillery - the fact remains - the regiment could not stand the Germans onslaught in this battle, suffered heavy losses and moved to a new defensive line - the regiment’s authorities were not going to judge blindly.
                  I quoted Kaprov above: "... In these difficult battles, the entire division and my regiment, under pressure from superior enemy forces, retreated to the Kryukovo station near Moscow. The departure continued until the first days of December 1941." what was there in the regiment, how it was replenished with personnel and means, let historians search.
                  Judging by the figures that are on the Internet - they are talking about - more than 1000 of total losses for 16 - 18 of November, since I haven’t reached the source, I won’t give them.

                  And why do you blame Kaprov - I don’t know in 1 whether he had the material capabilities and + time to build a full-fledged anti-tank defense, in- 2 - his immediate boss Panfilov - is he okay ?? He’s the commander of this division. He has Kaprov on the same side, and obviously more than once visited the regiment’s location — all the more so, “must he be shot”?
                  1. Banshee
                    Banshee 17 September 2011 16: 38 New
                    -2
                    Quote: ballian
                    if there is a gun there are also projectiles to it.


                    Hmm ... not a fact, you know, not a fact.

                    Quote: ballian
                    And why do you blame Kaprov


                    Fair? I did not like his testimony. Obviously otmazyvatsya.
                    1. Material capabilities (regiment) he had. No shovels? .
                    The time was also, 6 days, based on your material.

                    2. Maybe. Panfilov had to be aware of what was happening in his division.
                    1. ballian
                      ballian 18 September 2011 14: 55 New
                      -3
                      In your opinion, a full-fledged anti-tank defense can be created with only shovels? Huh :) And now since you are so competent in military engineering - give links - construction dates, the necessary equipment for vocational training ...
                      About the presence of French guns a little lower - Akzium 16 September 2011 16: 40 answered.
                      Nobody scolded Panfilov, it seems - on the contrary, the big hero came out - so there is no need to speculate and slander - it is difficult to understand that Kaprov "did not have time" there - he does not give details.
            3. Aktium
              Aktium 16 September 2011 16: 40 New
              -7
              The Banshee, the defeated regiment retreated to Kryukovo. Read more carefully. And on December 9, the flag with the swastika did not develop over the Kremlin, because on December 6 the counteroffensive began, prepared by the Headquarters upon the arrival of 22 divisions of the Far Eastern Far East. Or do you generally know the history of these events only from Soviet films or just fool around.
              French expeditionary forces were in Russia during the Civil War in southern Russia and in Arkhangelsk. French Renault tanks fought against the Bolsheviks. The first Soviet tank, Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin (as it was called), was repaired French tank Renault. The same French supplied the Army of Denikin and Kolchak airplanes and artillery. Consider the story, and not howl in the past, as the mythical banshees do.
              1. Joker
                Joker 16 September 2011 16: 44 New
                -2
                Quote: Akcium
                The "first" Soviet tank "Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin" (as he was called) was a refurbished French Renault tank.


                - and why did you get that?
              2. Banshee
                Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 46 New
                -1
                Put ... I did not ask you a question, nothing?

                Quote: Akcium
                And December 9 didn’t develop a swastika flag over the Kremlin, because December 6 launched a counteroffensive prepared by the Stake on the arrival of the 22 divisions of the Far Eastern Military District.


                What do you mean ... And I really thought that aliens intervened ... Oh, how it turns out.

                Quote: Akcium
                French expeditionary forces, were on the territory of Russia during the Civil War in the South of Russia and in Arkhangelsk


                This is not the answer to my question.

                Quote: Akcium
                French tanks "Reno" participated in the battles against the Bolsheviks. The "first" Soviet tank "Freedom Fighter Comrade Lenin" (as it was called) was a renovated French Renault tank.


                About the speech tanks did not go, did not notice?


                1. Banshee
                  Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 50 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Akcium
                  Also, the French supplied the Army of Denikin and Kolchak with airplanes and artillery.


                  So what?

                  You know, or answer the question, or keep quiet in a rag. I don’t need a heap of useless information in the style of Gorbachev. In your ability to use Google, I do not doubt at all.
                  But once got into someone else's dialogue - if you please meet. Brave somewhere else.
                  1. Aktium
                    Aktium 16 September 2011 17: 14 New
                    -7
                    Firstly, it’s not a stranger’s dialogue. Is this your personal website? Secondly, the information is not worthless - I’m talking about French guns and where they came from. Thirdly, I really know how to use Google - it was created for this.
                  2. Mesniy
                    Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 08 New
                    -2
                    Yes, they explained to you that all of the above was actually stored in warehouses, as they stored t-2000-34 and so on, as well as ammunition and so on, until 85. Well, why should I roll around and talk about the topic or doesn’t cook my head at all?
                    1. stas52
                      stas52 18 September 2011 18: 26 New
                      -1
                      you Mesny, Aktsium and Ballyan, I would recommend reading less Rezun
                      1. Aktium
                        Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 41 New
                        -3
                        Are you stas52 not tired of watching Soviet films? We at least read something, but you, apparently, have nothing but a zombie creature.
    2. подводник
      подводник 19 September 2011 12: 05 New
      -1
      ARE YOU SURE THAT THIS CITIZEN DOESN'T STILL HAVE ANY CITIZENSHIP? IT IS EXTRA POPULAR FOR THESE "PEOPLE" -THIS AND IT CAN BE EXPLAINED WHY THIS SUDDEN IT "BORN"
  4. voin-xnumx
    voin-xnumx 16 September 2011 11: 28 New
    +6
    When I pick up the rewards of my grandfather, I feel trembling in my hands. It was a great victory over rabble. The Russian people gather only at such moments and make decisions. I think such a minute will come soon.
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 16 September 2011 12: 28 New
      +2
      No, warrior. It was the Great Victory of the Soviet people over the whole of Europe. The war with the rabble is just beginning. You can see him not only here.
      And the victory over this rabble is more complicated than driving the Reich into oblivion. It will be more difficult for us for many reasons. But it is necessary to win, because we are talking about the future, no more and no less.
      1. Aktium
        Aktium 16 September 2011 16: 51 New
        -9
        So you decide between yourself - whose was the Victory. The Russian people or still the Soviet?
    2. Mesniy
      Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 12 New
      -3
      Well, "trembling hands" - at least the unbalanced psyche if you didn’t drink before. Again, you contradict yourself - it’s stupid to call victory “Great” if it’s over “rabble.” You’ll somehow decide. Well, what seems to you -. ..
      1. подводник
        подводник 19 September 2011 23: 20 New
        -3
        Well, shit!
  5. DAGESTAN333
    DAGESTAN333 16 September 2011 11: 38 New
    +10
    All my friends, all my nephews and nieces, everything around the younger generation absolutely understand - the European leaned on us, armed with a completely immoral ideology, which implied our complete extermination, or (graciously), for example, work in uranium mines. And our heroic army destroyed their inhuman dreams. Only a zombie will not accept this truth.
    Our task is to prevent the information defeat of our children.
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 16 September 2011 12: 32 New
      +2
      Dagestan, I am even afraid to ask: where is this promised land? Where can a whole generation understand such things absolutely exactly?
      I envy you!!!! To live surrounded by adequate people who do not try to throw mud at the honor and memory of their ancestors is wonderful.
      1. DAGESTAN333
        DAGESTAN333 16 September 2011 16: 33 New
        +2
        BansheeI mean our humble village. Perhaps the thinking of rural society is inert from the fact that not everyone here is interested in alternative Internet information (that is, they do not look at all those impurities that are offered in the form of information).
        Ask any high school student with us, and he will confidently answer that the USSR has freed Europe from fascism, and no Suvorov Rezuns are interesting to him.

        Selukha ......... what to take from it .............
        1. Banshee
          Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 43 New
          0
          Throw everything to hell and go to you ...
          1. DAGESTAN333
            DAGESTAN333 16 September 2011 21: 06 New
            0
            BansheeI think for you there is always a piece of land for building, although it’s difficult in the mountains with this.
          2. Mesniy
            Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 15 New
            -4
            Go, they will put you in a pit, you will jerk from morning to night, maybe your brains will be aired
            1. DAGESTAN333
              DAGESTAN333 18 September 2011 14: 31 New
              -4
              Eh ... Mesniy... sorry for you dude.
              1. Mesniy
                Mesniy 18 September 2011 22: 55 New
                0
                Yes, everything is fine dude, do not worry. You feel sorry for yourself. It was brought to your life, to look, bullshit bullshit
              2. Mesniy
                Mesniy 18 September 2011 23: 12 New
                -3
                Yes, relax, I’m all nonsense, but with what concepts do you call a modest village a makhachkala ?, "I mean our modest village," a shitty town of course, but still ...
                Decide where you are lying - when you indicate that you live in Makhachkala or in a "modest village"? Or are you everywhere you are lying, both in the account and on the site? It seems that way. That's really a pity you are some kind of "peasant" ...
                1. DAGESTAN333
                  DAGESTAN333 19 September 2011 00: 22 New
                  -1
                  Mesniy, everything is simple - I live in a village, and registration is here, but often I am in Makhachkala for a long time too. In order not to bother people, I did not write the name of the village, in which no more than 1000 households. But if it’s quite interesting, we can get to know each other better, and the village will say what’s called smile .
                  Honestly, I do not understand your aggression towards me. And anyway ... even you're always evil ...
                  1. Mesniy
                    Mesniy 19 September 2011 09: 57 New
                    -3
                    I have no aggression to anyone here personal, although a similar question could ask you.
                    I don’t like when people, for lack of arguments, turn to individuals (you are no exception). And the stupidity of some "bloggers" really infuriates (not about you).
                    I'm not evil, but harsh (maybe unnecessarily), But I am like that in life.
                    But your village is not interesting to me. I saw one thing - it means I saw everything. I did not like them ...
                    1. DAGESTAN333
                      DAGESTAN333 19 September 2011 12: 03 New
                      0
                      Mesniy, why shouldn't I get personal when you manage to insult all my people? You and I shouldn’t present our points of view without insults? I, for - a normal discussion. Your sharpness is okay (I don’t “suffer” manners too), but respecting the interlocutor is necessary, and the fact that the interlocutor has a different opinion from yours is not a reason for “canceling” respect.
                      But if you are not interested in all these "conversations" ....., I will say this - insulting on an Internet is not fair, even if you can insult me ​​in person - anyway, on an Internet - it's not fair.
                      1. Mesniy
                        Mesniy 19 September 2011 19: 54 New
                        -3
                        And when did I insult your people?
            2. Mesniy
              Mesniy 18 September 2011 22: 56 New
              0
              Yes, everything is fine dude, do not worry. You feel sorry for yourself. It was brought up to your life, to look,, delirium
        2. Mesniy
          Mesniy 18 September 2011 22: 58 New
          0
          Okay stupid
      2. Aktium
        Aktium 16 September 2011 16: 53 New
        -3
        Drive to SevKavkaz. There you will be shown the "promised land."
    2. Aktium
      Aktium 16 September 2011 16: 52 New
      -4
      Well, your "heroic Dagestan army" defeated and destroyed everyone. Especially in Moscow at the Ramadan this year.
      1. DAGESTAN333
        DAGESTAN333 16 September 2011 21: 11 New
        0
        Aktiumhow does our holiday relate to the fact that they are trying to belittle and nullify the merits of the SA soldiers in the fight against fascism?
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 16 September 2011 21: 41 New
          -8
          Now I’ll tell you how. I do not belittle and insult the soldiers who fought on the fronts. But, all the disadvantages of the “Sovdepii” affected the entire conduct of the war. It’s enough to recall that the Wehrmacht reached Moscow in three months, and Krasnaya The army (namely the Red, not the SA), crawled to the border of the USSR for three years. In this war, the Bolsheviks won due to mass sacrifices. Stalin’s speech read “Toast for the Russian people.” Last year, he was traveling from relatives from another city, 9 May. Arrived late. From the station, I went home by tram. After two stops, he entered, drunk in the trash, a proletarian, about 25 years old, in sweatpants, a shirt and a jacket, with a St. George’s ribbon folded into a large bow on his chest. It falls on four bones and begins to crawl along the floor, collecting the fallen trifle. The bow is dragging along the floor. "Winner" however. I can cite many such examples. What is happening on May 9. During the demonstration on May 1, I also personally saw the same thing last year, the Communists ate vodka in glasses, and after the demonstration they were still poured from a pulled-up loaf. Here is the price tag for Victory and the price of the Communists.
          1. mitrich
            mitrich 16 September 2011 21: 56 New
            -1
            Aktium,
            Listen, Aktsium. I don’t want to insult you as a person, but your comments are a mixture of some primitively defective consciousness. Listen, well, you can’t think so MUCH, you are a thinking person .... I myself am not a supporter of the Soviet regime (at least during the period during which I found it) - but you’re just a miracle, I just refuse to believe, that people like you still exist ...
            1. Aktium
              Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 16 New
              -2
              By no means. The ninth-graders who think besides hysterical statements cannot bring anything in defense of their positions.
            2. Mesniy
              Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 33 New
              -4
              believe me. they simply rarely unsubscribe on similar sites, I recommended this site to many of my friends who came in, there’s only one reaction: “well, there’s to argue and prove something,” your comments read, neighing ...
          2. figwam
            figwam 16 September 2011 21: 56 New
            -2
            What a horror! The Communists devour vodka! And the Lebirasts eat tequila. It's all gone!
          3. DAGESTAN333
            DAGESTAN333 16 September 2011 22: 14 New
            0
            Aktiumdrinking people - our common misfortune, it remains to hope that you do not gloat over this event.
            To account
            The Red Army crawled to the border of the USSR for three years.
            , I am convinced that I can also say that if there were a different system in Russia instead of the communist one, you would have to “crawl” not for three, but for five years, provided that you would have begun to “crawl” in general.
            1. Aktium
              Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 14 New
              -2
              Russian army in 1914 - 1917 she fought much better. Until her "comrades." And, I say again, if not for the October Revolution, there would have been no “Great Patriotic War”. Yes, and World War II too.
            2. Mesniy
              Mesniy 18 September 2011 23: 21 New
              -1
              be in Russia a different system - you didn’t have to crawl at all, neither from borders to borders, nor along your mountains
          4. ytqnhfk
            ytqnhfk 16 September 2011 23: 55 New
            -3
            I WANT TO ASK YOU A YOUNG MAN AND YOU WHO WANTS IN EXAMPLES ??? Who is your ideal, both in politics and in personal qualities? Who is your example ??
            1. zczczc
              zczczc 17 September 2011 00: 44 New
              -2
              ytqnhfk.
              I subscribe to the comment. Who!
            2. Mesniy
              Mesniy 18 September 2011 23: 25 New
              -3
              Abraham Lincoln, George Washington, Stolypin, Admiral Kolchak, Winston Churchill, de Gaulle, Margaret Thatcher
          5. Uncle Sam
            Uncle Sam 23 September 2011 04: 20 New
            -2
            Well said! All this fuss of the current government on the topic of May 9 is an attempt to distract people from the plight of the country, to stick to something route. If it weren’t for this, they would have celebrated the Kulikov battle, otherwise they would hand out some kind of ribbon
          6. Uncle Sam
            Uncle Sam 23 September 2011 04: 25 New
            0
            Well said! All this fuss of the current government on the topic of May 9 is an attempt to distract people from the plight of the country, to stick to something route. If it weren’t for this, they would have celebrated the Kulikov battle, otherwise they would hand out some kind of ribbon
      2. zczczc
        zczczc 17 September 2011 00: 34 New
        -2
        Aktium, Mlyn, climbed out - you'd better not climb with your Nazi attitude towards people ...
        1. ytqnhfk
          ytqnhfk 17 September 2011 01: 13 New
          -2
          I ALREADY WRITTEN ON THIS TOPIC !!
          1. Banshee
            Banshee 17 September 2011 16: 44 New
            -2
            By the way, did anyone pay attention to how the high-action shares in his opinion “act”?

            To the question "where is the Ramadan holiday here?" anything was thrown out except for the answer to the question. And some kind of drunk with a bow, and the Wehrmacht’s journey time to Moscow and back ... In short, anything but an answer to the question posed.
            By the way, I asked him questions about him. The result is the same: the release of "left" quotes and facts.

            He communicates with himself.
            1. Aktium
              Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 11 New
              -2
              If you, the Banshees, can read only diagonally, then no one is to blame but you. And I’m not always disposed to answer stupid questions (this is me about Ramadan). Someone who is smart will understand.
  6. Isk1984
    Isk1984 16 September 2011 12: 38 New
    0
    Here’s a balian, you understand what’s the matter, and war is always a feat from beginning to end, you think it’s easy to freeze in the trenches, you think it’s easy to raise your head and see how T-2, T-3. Are moving at you, watering everything around MG-34 fire, and 50-mm pieces and tools, how to throw a bunch of grenades from a distance of 10 meters (these are not the conclusions of historians, this is the story of my great-grandfather, who spoke about such things only after he drank well, otherwise he was silent and cried, you know, war is a tough test of nerves and reason), and so the truth is always in the middle, even considering your stated facts (although it’s disgusting to read to me like that), bow your head in front of people who even died in trenches under fire and inflicting damage on the enemy , I don’t think that you find yourself in a trench; don’t forgive me from crawling a claw you won’t conquer like a kid, but they may have howled but fought, and it’s not always that what they write is true, but blood and then victory was given, but sorry me, there are objective reasons for everything, I will add q and the highly professional and trained parts of the panzervafe were defeated as a result, and my glorious ancestors signed the Reichstag, respect history do not try to spoil it, if only for the sake of the memory of people who died on their land on frosty days, giving them their last duty .. .
    Think again, and you could be heroic there as you say ...
    1. Aktium
      Aktium 16 September 2011 16: 56 New
      -6
      Here's another pink patriot. Balian never crap anywhere. He just cited the facts.
      1. ytqnhfk
        ytqnhfk 16 September 2011 23: 48 New
        -1
        In truth, YOU SHOULD EXACTLY NEED TO COLLECT FOR A TICKET TO VORONEZH YES WHERE YOU MAY BE PLEASANT TO ARRIVE, YOU WILL BE MET WITH A HORSE IN YOUR EYES, BUT WITH A SENSE OF THE “UNDERLED” DUTY AND WITHOUT BEEN DONE A MAN ABLE TO TURN INTO PARTS you will see Alexander and you will have everything for life !!!
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 20 New
          -5
          Is it you, Neutral, “a person capable of tearing to pieces?” Something is not noticeable. However, having drunk vodka, you are apparently really capable of doing it. In the toilet. With a newspaper.
          1. ytqnhfk
            ytqnhfk 18 September 2011 19: 38 New
            -1
            Mistake Mistake! SUCH as I was thinking any Russian woman would have torn apart without having to bother too much !! According to your statements, it’s clear that you can only squeak; you don’t have real thoughts; Your statements are based on youthful maximalism and sheep’s stubbornness !!
            Half your country can illuminate your energy!
            1. Aktium
              Aktium 18 September 2011 22: 25 New
              -3
              How much I know Russian women - everyone loves me and not a single one is going to tear. If the facts are not reality, then what is reality then? Your hysterical squeals? Your "own analysis" is in your intestines. You cannot even write correctly (I I’m not talking about a culture of communication) - what other analysis are you discussing?
              1. ytqnhfk
                ytqnhfk 20 September 2011 16: 10 New
                -1
                The ability to analyze incoming information! -You’re a snotty boy, you need to explain everything “smart” you are ours !! Yes, and with nerves I have a norm, unlike you, literacy! Well, about women I’m talking about normal representatives of this fair sex and not rubber substitutes !! gray matter in the upper torso !!
      2. stas52
        stas52 18 September 2011 18: 40 New
        -3
        as for the patriots, as far as I remember, someone from your trinity said that if we lost it would be better. Honor Guderian, everything is well said in him, as if they would have won. As for my relatives, I can tell grandfathers both fists both fought, my father was stolen to Germany for three shoots, all were unsuccessful, pendosy were released, from there to our camps, three shoots, the third was good, but my father never said that it would be better if they won. He did not like the Communists, but did not see another alternative.
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 18 September 2011 22: 46 New
          -1
          "grandfathers both fists both fought" - let me ask: on which front?
  7. Vyalik
    Vyalik 16 September 2011 12: 57 New
    -2
    Even the fact that they managed to delay the advance of the Germans by 4 hours is already a feat. The feat of our fathers and grandfathers is beyond doubt.ballian,
    More than 50 tanks attacked the regiment’s sector, and the main blow was aimed at the positions of the 2nd battalion, since this section was most accessible to enemy tanks. For about 40–45 minutes, the enemy’s tanks crushed the location of the 2nd battalion, including the section of the 4th company, and one tank even went to the command post of the regiment and lit the hay and the booth, so I could only get out of the way dugout; I was saved by the embankment of the railway. When I crossed the railway embankment, people who had survived the attack of German tanks began to gather around me. The 4th company suffered the most from the attack; led by company commander Gundilovich 20–25 people survived, the rest all died. The remaining companies suffered less. ”
    Interestingly, as I understood it, the most dangerous tank direction was practically not covered. The command post was in a booth disguised as hay. And the regiment was dribbling for an embankment fleeing one tank. I do not want to say that he was scared, I do not have the right to, but I understand that he was not in his place. On ships there is such an expression "the captain who has lost confidence, loses power on the ship, he cannot be the captain."
    1. ballian
      ballian 16 September 2011 14: 18 New
      -1
      eme - but I have doubts? I just can't stand it when they lie and compose.
      Why suddenly revealing the truth somehow "bothers" the feat of those who died in battle, part of the soldiers captured there ??
      Well, let's continue to read the literary - artistic work of Krivitsky and admire - why do you need this?
      The only thing that is true in the story with Panfilov’s is that there was a battle at this place - everything else is speculation.
  8. 12061973
    12061973 16 September 2011 13: 30 New
    -4
    Soviet PR is an example to current political strategists, and they cannot come up with a national idea.
  9. Vyalik
    Vyalik 16 September 2011 13: 36 New
    -2
    There is still not much about his father. When I went into the army, he said such words to me “no matter what the battle is expected to dig into the ground, there is a spatula to dig with it, there is no digging with a helmet, there is no helmet digging with a spoon, there is no spoon biting your teeth but burrowing into the ground then it’s harder to kill you, and your chances of killing the enemy grow many times. ”To my questions what was most remembered at the front, he said“ the endless digging of trenches and communications ”. And what did the regiment do in preparing the defense for 6 days?
  10. Styx
    Styx 16 September 2011 13: 45 New
    -2
    It is terrible when they begin to delve into history, look for inaccuracies, refutations, etc., especially in such a topic as the Second World War. Sam himself repeatedly worked with documents at TsAMO, wrote a diploma on the participation of the Urals 30th motorized infantry and 117th tank divisions in the Bryansk offensive operation. I know that not everything is as smooth as presented in the official version of the presentation of the events of the Second World War. But do not try to discredit the bright names of people who fought in this war against fascism. No matter how bad or good they were. It is not known how each of us would act in their place. About the dead, either good or nothing ...
    1. Aktium
      Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 22 New
      -2
      Yes. And cry, watching Soviet films about the war. "You are on the right path, comrades."
    2. Uncle Sam
      Uncle Sam 23 September 2011 04: 27 New
      -1
      Convenient excuse shovels "historians, storytellers" at all times, no longer rolls.
  11. Crazyzy
    Crazyzy 16 September 2011 14: 12 New
    -3
    ballian
    How at that time the testimony was beaten out by everyone is well known.
    Many confessed to ties with German intelligence and treason.
    What the NKVD wished to hear from the lips of the accused, it did so.
    You yourself would have admitted that "He was preparing an assassination attempt on Stalin."
    Here i will support Banshee about the moral-volitional qualities of Kaprov as a commander "I crap in full, then (I want to live) I began to weave fairy tales."
    And about the exploits and heroism of our fathers and grandfathers is not for you to judge !!!
    1. ballian
      ballian 16 September 2011 15: 34 New
      0
      What other "confessed"? The case was initiated in connection with the fact that one of the “28” allegedly was killed in a criminal case for serving as a police officer, and during interrogation he said that he was listed in these 28 victims (later it turned out that at least five more were alive besides him ) - this is how it was worked out in the 48 year. Everything was proved there not at all through “confessions” - Krivitsky simply had no knowledge of taking how the battle went. - it was he who wrote the "fairy tales"
      .
      That's right - it's not for me to judge - the prosecutor’s office sorted it out.
      .
      And about the battle itself, too, it’s known from there - "From the reference - report of the investigation of the case:
      .
      "The test in relation to this battle was carried out by the senior instructor of the 4 department of GlavPURKKA9 senior battalion commissar Minin, who in August 1942 of the year informed the Head of the Organizational Inspection Department of GlavPURKKA to the division commissar Comrade Pronin:
      "4 company of 1075 rifle regiment, in which 28 Panfilov heroes were born, occupied the defense of Nelidovo - Dubosekovo - Petelino.
      On November 16 of the 1941 of the year, the enemy, having preempted the advance of our units, went on the offensive at about 8 in the morning by large forces of tanks and infantry.
      As a result of battles under the influence of superior enemy forces 1075, the rifle regiment suffered heavy losses and moved to a new defensive line.
      For this withdrawal of the regiment, regiment commander Kaprov and military commissar Mukhomedyarov were removed from their posts and reinstated after the division left the fighting and was on rest and understaffing.
      ==============
      I am amazed how people are unable to understand that Krivitsky simply had no place to get info about the battle,
      in addition, the "dead heroes" (whose death he described in detail) began to turn out to be alive one by one.
      1. ballian
        ballian 16 September 2011 16: 03 New
        -2
        In addition, you CrazyDog obviously didn’t even bother to read the investigation of the Prosecutor’s Office (by reference) - there Kaprov is just one of the interrogated defendants - really for people like you it’s worthless to weave fairy tales - eat and don’t choke.
        1. Crazyzy
          Crazyzy 16 September 2011 16: 41 New
          -2
          ballian
          I am at work and not all links are allowed to me. (I could not read it.)
          Remember the recognition of Dmitry G. Pavlov, Army General (commander of the troops of the Western Front). He admitted that he had collaborated with German intelligence since 1937 or 1939 (I will not lie).
          And in 1956 he was posthumously rehabilitated and reinstated in the rank.
  12. figwam
    figwam 16 September 2011 15: 52 New
    -4
    I would have looked at this billan with a rifle and a grenade in a snowdrift and frost under -30. For him, this would have been a feat.
    Sitting at the monitor alone, and giving life in a deep frosty forest, missing forever, is the greatest sacrifice.
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 52 New
      -2
      Yes, it could be no worse than others ... In such situations, people are quickly re-educated.
  13. Banshee
    Banshee 16 September 2011 16: 39 New
    0
    ballian, I understand in part your desire to "sort out thoroughly" in such matters. But alas, already figured out. Read Mukhin, he wrote well about it. Or rezuna-suvorov. Depending on which side you are on.

    Yes, we do not know the exact truth about the exploits of 28 soldiers. Someone ran, someone on the contrary, rushed under the tank with the last grenade. Time has passed a lot.
    There are many such examples of information warfare. And the Sailors was not the first, and his feat was inexpedient, because the machine gun will shut up for more than 10-15 seconds, then the body will be shoved stupidly and continued. And Talalikhin was not the first to commit a ram. And Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya did not cause damage to the enemy. Yes, during the war, our troops destroyed the 13 000 ACS Ferdinad, and 1300 was released ... Everything can be fooled.
    But what's the point?
    And the meaning is as follows. The people needed confidence that the army was fighting, and did not run when they caught sight of German tanks. That fighters shoot down enemy planes with a battering ram if ammunition ran out. That German tanks can be burned. That the partisans do not let the Germans sleep in the territory they captured. WHAT IS THIS FALSE? Accents are not so placed? No accuracy?
    Accuracy was one. 9 May.

    Yes, propaganda. Yes, distorted facts. So it was necessary to win, how do you stupidly do not understand?
    And if you wrote about the Karpovs who couldn’t dig trenches for a week, and others who preferred to save their own skin ... well, then the Germans would have quietly and peacefully settled on the Murmansk-Astrakhan line and the war would be over.

    Yes, there were feats and "exploits". And not everything the newspapers wrote about was true. Is it now in another case do? look at Libya in the news ...
    Breshut all. Both winners and losers. Only here the winners are not judged. And you try.
    What for? All the same, while we have not yet died, we will not give it. Be patient 25-30 and then go ahead.
    1. Aktium
      Aktium 16 September 2011 17: 18 New
      -6
      So they got to the point. "Winners are not judged." A little bit earlier. In 6 years, the Communist Party will die.
    2. Mesniy
      Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 43 New
      -3
      “Well then, the Germans would have quietly stopped on the Murmansk-Astrakhan line and the war would have ended” - well, if komunyaki, as in 1917, concluded a separate peace with the Germans, but just as the Germans were able to defeat the Germans without Russia in 1918, they were defeated in this war civilization always defeats perverted regimes, defeats Nazism, defeats communism, and your "potrezotism" wins
  14. Aktium
    Aktium 16 September 2011 17: 03 New
    -6
    Figwam, you really fmgvam. "With a rifle and a grenade in a snowdrift and frost-30" You, one might think, were sitting there "in a dense frosty forest." Moralists are bloody. Your “Marshal of the Soviet Union” Yazov was unable to defend the Emergency Committee in 1991, and then, as a “hero”, he apologized to Yeltsin.
    1. ballian
      ballian 16 September 2011 18: 19 New
      -3
      This is what terribly amuses me in Yazov’s run over .- The historian published an authentic document (which Yazov also admits) - and published a long time ago - the investigation of the SOVIET prosecutor’s office in this case. That is, the historian Mironenko is just a moderator-function.
      And Yazov took over this poor fellow.
      E, Yazov - if you are such a “defender” - go to court and prove that the investigation of the Soviet prosecutor’s office contains a lie - that you are barking in the wrong direction?
      But it won’t work, because he knows that as far back as 1948, they figured out everything - there is nothing to cover.
      Yes, at this place there was a battle in which those called "28 Panfilov" took part (in fact there were much more fighters) - everything else painted by Krivitsky in his monumental ARTistic work has nothing to do with reality.
      Why did they come up with this - this is also taken apart - then examples of courage were needed to follow.
    2. figwam
      figwam 16 September 2011 19: 54 New
      -2
      Of course, I didn’t sit there, but I carried out my service properly, with a machine gun in my hands, in -35 frost and the wind at night, in a sheepskin coat and felt boots even 2 hours later the frost penetrates, the water freezes in seconds. It’s better for keyboard practitioners to know what people felt then .Babblers are bloody.
      1. Aktium
        Aktium 16 September 2011 21: 45 New
        -3
        Here's what I noticed. They call it a “keyboard practitioner”, etc. You probably type something differently on your own. Or do you have a live broadcast? What do you say, is everything written by itself?
        1. figwam
          figwam 16 September 2011 22: 07 New
          -3
          In order to slander the soldiers who fought then, one must feel with his skin all the deprivations of military service.
          Young man, you can’t feel anything besides mazole on your fingers.
  15. Isk1984
    Isk1984 16 September 2011 18: 31 New
    -5
    Aktium, and what truth would you like to hear that the valiant German soldiers fanned with knightly courage and valor, trampled in the mud like chambers a red chase, a stupid redneck who is unable to hold a grenade in his hands and a rifle, or what.

    And the truth is that after the brutal defeats of 1941, the Red Army learned to fight, so that in the end Berlin defended the units of the foxessturm of the boys and grandfathers, and all because the vaunted and brave knights of the panzerwafe and the grenadiers could not withstand the blows (it’s impossible to knock the crowd out of the crowd building of professionals), so grandfathers and great-grandfathers were braver, bolder, more inventive, so they killed and destroyed the German car to the nines. And this is a story that you can’t cross out in any way.
    1. Aktium
      Aktium 16 September 2011 21: 47 New
      -3
      The crowd can. Another way. Personally familiar with the professional melee, who was simply "overwhelmed", three outfits of cops.
  16. mitrich
    mitrich 16 September 2011 18: 36 New
    +2
    The grandfather of my former colleague went near Moscow in October 1941 in one single attack. With a Mosin rifle in his hands, but without cartridges. He stepped on a mine, as a result of which he lost his leg. Woke up in a hospital. He didn’t kill anyone in that attack. In 1944 he was awarded the medal "For the Defense of Moscow", in 1945 - "For the Victory over Germany", 20 years later - with the Order of the Red Star (for the leg) and the Order of World War II degree. Is he a hero? In my opinion, the real one, like the millions of our fathers and grandfathers who honestly gave their lives and health in that war.
    As for the Panfilov’s, how many there were, the number of tanks wrecked and what political instructor Klochkov said before his death is not the point. And there is nothing because of this, for some users to poke a snotty nostril. Have you completed the combat mission? Have done. And the fact that the feat of the Kazakhstanis (the division was formed in Alma-Ata) became well-known - that’s all right, we needed examples of heroism, and the people got them. I also received thousands more unknown Panfilovites, about which newspapers had not written.
    And snotty noses write all sorts of shit on veterans and the history of the Second World War because they themselves would NEVER launch the only attack ...
    1. figwam
      figwam 16 September 2011 20: 02 New
      -2
      I agree, if a person took a weapon and went on the attack, he had already proved everything to himself and accepted a mortal battle, but he will remain young forever or live to a very old age only the creator knows.
  17. Sanzyro
    Sanzyro 16 September 2011 20: 21 New
    -3
    Something, each topic grows with trolls ... There are more and more of them ...
    1. figwam
      figwam 16 September 2011 20: 42 New
      +1
      And they are thrown, so to speak, into the most dangerous areas, the USA has long known what remains the last uniting our people, and they are working in this area.
    2. Aktium
      Aktium 16 September 2011 21: 01 New
      -7
      I agree. Red trolls celebrate each topic with their presence.
      1. Banshee
        Banshee 17 September 2011 16: 49 New
        -4
        Yes, they do. They have right tsiferki after their speeches completely red ...
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 06 New
          -1
          Well, you don’t need to think too much about it. You all have already developed a reflex. Even if the commentary on the topic is still minus press. Kindergarten.
          1. Banshee
            Banshee 18 September 2011 07: 12 New
            -4
            Yes, you have all the answers from one topic. With one color and smell.
            1. Aktium
              Aktium 18 September 2011 22: 54 New
              0
              Do you even smell through the monitor? Wow - to what extent the technique has reached.
  18. Aktium
    Aktium 16 September 2011 21: 02 New
    -5
    Your "proletarian" people are already on their last legs. Order stars on the graves, "comrades."
    1. mitrich
      mitrich 16 September 2011 21: 10 New
      0
      Aktium,
      while the thick one dries, the thin one dies, AKTIUM! So order them better yourself, my friend ...
      1. Aktium
        Aktium 16 September 2011 21: 48 New
        -8
        And on whose grubs are you, “comrades,” have you grown fat? The Kremlin dog is your friend, Mitrich.
        1. raf
          raf 16 September 2011 22: 08 New
          -4
          I wonder what the hell out of such shit as the Aktsium climbs!
          1. Aktium
            Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 07 New
            -3
            With people like the RAF, only in need and your place, "comrades."
            1. raf
              raf 17 September 2011 18: 51 New
              -5
              I'm not going to enter into a discussion with a bunch of donkey shit, which with its stench is trying to spoil the blessed memory of our soldiers! I said everything!
              1. Aktium
                Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 34 New
                0
                And no one is discussing. Your ancestors in the ravine horse eat up.
            2. Banshee
              Banshee 18 September 2011 07: 10 New
              -5
              All merged, my dear? Insulted passed? Why? Google knocks, quotes ran out?
              1. Aktium
                Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 36 New
                -1
                Well, for Banshee, I always have a couple of quotes in stock. For example, this one:
                “A ghost wanders around Europe, with a beard on a round ass. And mumbles this fuck: Poor pennies.” (Lev Losev, Russian poet. 1917, December.)
    2. ytqnhfk
      ytqnhfk 17 September 2011 00: 04 New
      -3
      NO WE WILL WAIT FOR YOU SEMI-DEAD TO TURN YOU AND SUCH AS FROM THE LAST FORCES TO SHOW !!!
      1. Banshee
        Banshee 17 September 2011 16: 50 New
        -2
        He (share) wrote: from the Russian nationalist.
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 28 New
          -2
          Banshee, if for you the Russian nation is a "need", what "bright feelings" can you declare? You are a typical "internationalist-communist" (as Lenin said: "The Russian intelligentsia is shit"). Your teachers are non-Russians, Lenin, Stalin and other "internationalists."
          1. Banshee
            Banshee 18 September 2011 07: 15 New
            -2
            Thank God, the Russian nation is not made up of just such "representatives", therefore, it is not a needs-seeker. In any barrel of honey will have its own spoon of shit. Like some here present.

            My teachers were not only Lenin and Stalin. But who were your teachers? Is there anything left of them in the story?
            1. Marat
              Marat 18 September 2011 23: 00 New
              -3
              I know that people like you are Banshee, like Ivan 35, like Figwam like Solodova, and so on, most and not only on this site - but also in Russia as a whole
              I hope that there will be less and less such “Nazis” as this Aktsium
              More and more people understand where our real enemies are and the need for unification.
              1. figwam
                figwam 18 September 2011 23: 13 New
                0
                You don’t even need to call such people as an Aktsum in police, they have long been waiting in line for how to serve the interventionists.
            2. Aktium
              Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 30 New
              -2
              Reference: "Banshee is a mythical creature. When meeting with travelers, he begins to howl and complain about the loss of the past. He attacks the sleeping people, trying to take hold of their body"
        2. Ivan35
          Ivan35 17 September 2011 18: 39 New
          -1
          There is an information war and each side destroys the propaganda of the enemy. - And the enemies - liberals, pseudo-intellectuals led by pendos and world masons successfully destroyed the propaganda of the USSR - and achieved the destruction of the Union.

          Now series No. 2 - an attempt to finish off everything that holds Russia and neighboring republics together - there is an attack in memory of the 1945 Victory and the heroes of that war (under the guise of "sorting out") - it doesn’t matter what was in the details! It is important to understand by position - where are the enemies and where are our

          And it’s not for nothing that the Aktion “nationalist” - under the cover of supposedly Russian national “patriotism”, such people call for the collapse of existing Russia (by the tune of pendos), not to mention the fact that they interfere with the ongoing integration of 3 republics
          1. Mesniy
            Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 50 New
            -4
            Yes, you can also answer - Hiding behind the alleged protection of the memory of the fallen, the achievements of the “great country” and blah blah blah, you are actually defending the ruling regime of the Komunyuk-shitheads who have been repainted by the Democrats.
          2. ytqnhfk
            ytqnhfk 21 September 2011 09: 19 New
            -3
            The attack is not on what holds Russia together, but on the fact that it is not pendosy and their economic situation (jo) .Attack on the current development and goals of the country, an attempt to destabilize politically and socially through the Internet and the media with the help of such ( guardians of freedom, crap democracy and national views), confusion and shouting erasing everything else that the Russian mentality and Russian consciousness of values ​​rests on. To trample, to pour mud, to erase any memory from the memory of Russians, so that they could not be proud of anything !!!
      2. Aktium
        Aktium 17 September 2011 17: 08 New
        0
        Neutral, have you consumed vodka or something?
        1. Banshee
          Banshee 18 September 2011 07: 16 New
          0
          Interesting, but what did you eat? Apparently, shit, he is already very active climbs ...
      3. Aktium
        Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 32 New
        0
        Hmm. They said that drinking is harmful.
    3. stas52
      stas52 18 September 2011 18: 55 New
      -3
      answer, but you live in another country, and you have a different people? The truth is that we have one people and it is precisely proletarian, and not capitalist.
      1. Mesniy
        Mesniy 18 September 2011 22: 49 New
        -1
        Well, which are proletarian - those pity of course, the proletarians fly by.
        Well, normal and normal in this country.
        Why do you live so badly? You need to work, do business, make money, and everything will be fine.
      2. Aktium
        Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 16 New
        -1
        This is where the people became proletarian? No, you are exactly all from Moldova.
  19. Sanzyro
    Sanzyro 16 September 2011 21: 04 New
    +1
    Some people have an unhealthy craving for historical facts ... Give them some kind of painful realism. I wonder how ?? How many years have passed ... And here it turns out - I do not believe that's all! How can you prove the exploits of many nameless heroes? Witnesses, you know, just not there! So what?? It wasn’t, you see, that’s all ... But if it wasn’t, then how did the German not reach the Urals? It turns out that they themselves stopped and turned back! In! So, probably it was ... And how else to explain? What happened in our war there? Well now? Yes, the camps, detachments of the NKVD, commies, were surrendered by the millions, one rifle for two, arrests in the rear, also millions, which I still forgot, and gentlemen trolls ?? Yes, I remembered - the stupidity of our genius, who does not know how to fight, the low level of combat readiness, intelligence, etc. etc. ... It is strange that for all this, our people won ... Some kind of fiction! Documents, archives ?? No, well, I understand everything perfectly - this is not a decree for you! This is commies all faked? So? The machinations of the evil communist propagandists! I guessed?? But still, Russia was lucky. There are you - holders of the highest rank! Tell us everything, show and teach us! Where are we, the simple-minded and the foolish ... Good luck in this difficult, ungrateful and archival enlightenment of our near and naive people! Older, overseas comrades believe in you !!! And they hope that you will not turn off the chosen path!
    1. ballian
      ballian 16 September 2011 21: 18 New
      -6
      Quote: Sanzyro
      Documents, archives ?? No, well, I understand everything perfectly - this is not a decree for you!

      Dear - there are documents and archives - ANYTHING similar to Krivitsky’s fantasies was found there.
      However, this is just one of such stories - then all sorts of feats were sculpted on an industrial scale, on paper - in the absence of a free press, by order of the authorities, it was as simple as that - only in this case they overdid it - the hero-policeman - they started digging too much .
  20. lin
    lin 17 September 2011 01: 47 New
    -3
    ballian tries to operate on facts in an absolutely inappropriate case for this. The vast majority accuse him of lack of feelings.
    1. zczczc
      zczczc 17 September 2011 02: 19 New
      -6
      Yes, what facts - distortion of facts is.
  21. asavchenko59
    asavchenko59 17 September 2011 05: 40 New
    +1
    The Marshal, who pissed off the USSR, now complains about everyone and everything!
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 18 September 2011 07: 06 New
      -6
      Here is another bot you know who. But unlike the one from whom it is copied, it does not even possess artificial intelligence. I was able to type one phrase, which is used everywhere. In an article about a letter against Serdyukov, his country was pissed away by the military, who were dissatisfied with the state of things, here it turned out that he had Yazov in one.
      Another white and fluffy.
      Wretched, would you at least read the posts of advanced opponents ...
  22. lin
    lin 17 September 2011 16: 50 New
    -2
    But what, Dmitry Timofeevich was supposed to arrange a massacre? The people prosral, the people.
  23. Evil Tatar
    Evil Tatar 17 September 2011 19: 05 New
    0
    Each of us has his own heroes, Aktium ... Heroic deeds or feats of girlfriend, each people evaluates differently and in due time, based on upbringing and life experience.
    My grandfather fought the whole war, came with rewards and wounds. 10 years did not live after the war ...
    My second grandfather went beyond the "frontier" to the Japanese throughout the war, sabotage, intelligence ...
    The cousin of Karatsupa’s colleague ...
    Eternal memory to all those who died in battle, captivity, died of wounds and old age ... For the districts, the winners of the Great Patriotic War !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Kingdom of heaven to them!
    I and many of my friends and acquaintances, like many of you Frumkans, were brought up on the examples of the Heroes of the Great Patriotic War.
    The father of one of my friends said that in 1972, their party leaders of large enterprises gathered in the Krai Committee of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and openly informed that a conflict was brewing, that tomorrow columns of tanks, all communists and volunteers would go to the armor, stand on the border , we take away the young border guards-boys ...- "let people know that if it starts, let them know that everything will lie there" ...
    And the columns went, one of them walked along my streets for about 3 hours (then I remembered) ...
    They gave PPSh to everyone, ammunition, rations ... They waited three days ... No one wavered ... No one mowed ... Everyone returned ...
    Can you imagine how the population felt, wives, children, who were destined to know what was happening?
    The adult generation of Russia today knows ... WHAT everyone will do if they start!
    God is with us and four machine guns!
    1. Aktium
      Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 22 New
      -1
      Well, quotes from films and I can rush .... I’m interested in, well, in 1972, there weren’t any Kalash’s, what was the PCA given to everyone? And who were you going to fight with? In Zimbabwe? Or went to suppress riots in Kaunas?
      1. Evil Tatar
        Evil Tatar 19 September 2011 02: 39 New
        -2
        Listen, boy, I think in 1972 you were still in the papa's egg, so you are not aware that in 1972 the tension was on the Chinese border.
        It’s a pity that your dad didn’t use a condom ...
        And about films, so you better read books, train your brain ...
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 09 New
          -2
          There was a Tatar muzzle in the egg, and I was already running to school. The conflict on Damansky has nothing to do with the mobilization of the Krai committees. And I don’t have to rub it here about this - removed swearing - red-breasted. You already got me pederastic with your fabrications. Suck a member from your red ghouls - Lenin and Stalin, Bolshevik bastards.
          1. ytqnhfk
            ytqnhfk 20 September 2011 09: 41 New
            -2
            And YOU are a pornographic fanatic, moreover, it is prone to necrophilia, with a sick head! Well, he does not answer questions! It is weakly normal to EXPRESS HAMLO JUNIOR or the nerves surrendered so go and cry to your own (to Hitler Goebels Bandera and the like creatures). BTW they would appreciate all the services you proposed to us to do !! especially since Hitler had specific problems with this !!!!
          2. Evil Tatar
            Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 14: 57 New
            -2
            Unique, oh ... Aktsium, in accordance with age, you must realize that by offering to suck a dick to men !, or by accidentally sucking from them, you treat you pederasts with the same name you call strangers ... At the same time, you don’t even suspect ( out of habit) that most masculine people do not belong to this category, unlike you ...
            And now you can talk about China ... The fact is that the cross-border relations of China and the USSR began to soften since 1978 after the economic reforms began in China, initiated by the wing of the pragmatists of the CCP, headed by Den Xiaoping. Initially, the reforms affected the agricultural sector of the PRC. These reforms continue to this day ...
            But you, my dear, buggers continue to interest ...
            Well then, Jedem das Saine ...
            I am sure the translation of this phrase is close and familiar to you ...
          3. Evil Tatar
            Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 15: 10 New
            -2
            I completely forgot to remind you that the Tatars, along with the mangols, trampled not only the Russian land, but some part of Central Asia and a considerable part of Europe ... I would like to note that they trampled not only the land, but also a part of the population of the peoples living on this land ...
            Therefore, speaking of the Tatar faces, take the trouble to look in the mirror, m ... eccentric ...
  24. mar.tira
    mar.tira 18 September 2011 08: 44 New
    -3
    It tells about the heroism of ordinary soldiers, and not about the mistakes of commanders and commanders. And not about the fraudulent facts of those and modern times. During these years, how many of them got out and found the ground in patriotically poor people. These facts are designed for such ballian. By the way, there is also the exploit of Matrosov, both exalted and humiliated, delve there. Only in that war, and in the following wars, people committed heroism in spite of the superiority of the enemy. They died in battle, preferring death rather than captivity and shame. we were always strong, indebted to our Motherland as defenders, devotees and not demanding anything in return. And such articles say, “Don’t believe, everyone betrayed, everyone ran, everyone lied, everyone stole, they went to the tanks with forks. And everyone for themselves, but the Germans defeated a severe frost, and the help of the Allies.
    1. Mesniy
      Mesniy 18 September 2011 10: 55 New
      -10
      Yes, they just got tired of the soviet myths, the Molotov-Ribentrop pact won’t reject the scoops utterly, as they kept the URGENT NOTHING! Because to admit means to share responsibility with the Nazis for the beginning of the Second World War, and then they found it in the archives, and had to wipe and admit.
      The scoop collapsed a long time ago, and the myths it generated are still alive, disgusting. But while it works against them, everyone will be debunked.
      1. figwam
        figwam 18 September 2011 14: 06 New
        +1
        You can’t imagine how tired you are of everyone here!
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 18 September 2011 23: 19 New
          -3
          Well, it’s true that it hurts my eyes. It’s good that I don’t like that. Bear with me.
          1. figwam
            figwam 18 September 2011 23: 29 New
            -4
            C'mon, what do we put up with, you are a minority, it was, it is, it will be so. You are a statistical error near us.
            1. Mesniy
              Mesniy 18 September 2011 23: 37 New
              -4
              Yes, this is so on this site, but in life it’s different. And people like you already will not change anything, you are the dust under the feet of the world progress, which has trampled upon your ridiculous cannibalistic regimes and anti-human ideology. Bear, you have suffered for life.
            2. Aktium
              Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 15 New
              -3
              The minority is you, red bastards. Your teacher, Lenin, was a passive homosexual, satisfied with Zinoviev in a hut. And Stalin, a pervert, was removed Ossetian, used Molotov and a buddy during a joint drunk at a dacha in Kuntsevo.
        2. Aktium
          Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 12 New
          -2
          Anyone? Red buggers?
      2. stas52
        stas52 18 September 2011 19: 02 New
        -3
        As for the pacts, the French were the first to sign it, then the British, in my opinion there were Poles who decided it was better for Hitler than to let the Soviet troops through their territory, for which they paid.
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 18 September 2011 20: 20 New
          -4
          Well, this is your opinion, because you are an ignoramus so as not to be funny, look on the internet, then write too.
      3. mar.tira
        mar.tira 19 September 2011 07: 27 New
        -3
        But weren't you born in the Soviet Union? Is it not your compatriots and friends who are not scoops. Grandfather, grandmother, father, mother, relatives. Veterans who fought not for Stalin, but for not being slaves, and saved your roots. Why are you so dirty about us and your past? Life failed, or dream of manna from heaven as abroad? Those who harass their past will not have their future. There was a lot of blood in the history of my country, but there are many facts for which I am proud of her, and I hope my children will be proud. But people like you want to destroy all the work and achievements that have been made blood, and then my ancestors. And they themselves tried to create something, sitting in a cozy room, and scribbling another dirt on the computer.
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 19 September 2011 19: 51 New
          -3
          My grandfathers fought not for Stalin and the other sniff, but for their homeland - the Kuban, although the Reds occupied it. And I created enough, I have something to be proud of. Life was completely successful, and in Germany I have a sister and other relatives, I would like to - I would live there without problems. But I am more comfortable here.
          1. подводник
            подводник 19 September 2011 23: 32 New
            -3
            Mine also fought! And they fought to death! And they fought for everyone, for the whole country! Well, what happened, what kind of homeland will the Kuban mare fight for? Probably for the one where it’s calmer, because the relatives live there, and then "FOR ANOTHER CLEANING" who will blow off? Here we will meet !!!
            1. oper66
              oper66 20 September 2011 15: 08 New
              0
              dear submariner, I ask you not to insult the inhabitants of the Kuban in the future and do not align us with this individual or individual, I’m waiting for an apology and I ask you not to break
            2. oper66
              oper66 20 September 2011 15: 13 New
              -4
              dear submariner, I ask you not to insult the inhabitants of the Kuban in the future and do not align us with this individual or individual, I’m waiting for an apology and I ask you not to break
            3. oper66
              oper66 20 September 2011 15: 15 New
              -4
              dear submariner, I ask you not to insult the inhabitants of the Kuban in the future and do not align us with this individual or individual, I’m waiting for an apology and I ask you not to break
            4. oper66
              oper66 20 September 2011 15: 18 New
              -4
              dear submariner, I ask you not to insult the inhabitants of the Kuban in the future and do not align us with this individual or individual, I’m waiting for an apology and I ask you not to break
              1. Evil Tatar
                Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 15: 33 New
                -3
                He certainly apologized, sure. But I think that in his phrase this is not about the inhabitants of the Kuban, but about the horse born there ... Metaphor, ...
                And the only one, along with the crooked-mouthed, is simply swaying, damn ...
                I don’t understand why they are wasting their time. Maybe someone pays them? Masochists by nature, marry them ...
                Better wagons were unloaded for free for the good of Mother Russia!
                1. oper66
                  oper66 20 September 2011 15: 45 New
                  -4
                  infa skipped on rambler that edrosyat launched paid trolls, and about these individuals as they are in Krylov’s fable "she praises the rooster for praising the cuckoo"
              2. Evil Tatar
                Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 15: 49 New
                -5
                He certainly apologized, sure. But I think that in his phrase this is not about the inhabitants of the Kuban, but about the horse born there ... Metaphor, ...
                And the only one, along with the crooked-mouthed, is simply swaying, damn ...
                I don’t understand why they are wasting their time. Maybe someone pays them? Masochists by nature, marry them ...
                Better wagons were unloaded for free for the good of Mother Russia!
              3. Evil Tatar
                Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 15: 49 New
                -5
                He certainly apologized, sure. But I think that in his phrase this is not about the inhabitants of the Kuban, but about the horse born there ... Metaphor, ...
                And the only one, along with the crooked-mouthed, is simply swaying, damn ...
                I don’t understand why they are wasting their time. Maybe someone pays them? Masochists by nature, marry them ...
                Better wagons were unloaded for free for the good of Mother Russia!
              4. Evil Tatar
                Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 15: 50 New
                -5
                He certainly apologized, sure. But I think that in his phrase this is not about the inhabitants of the Kuban, but about the horse born there ... Metaphor, ...
                And the only one, along with the crooked-mouthed, is simply swaying, damn ...
                I don’t understand why they are wasting their time. Maybe someone pays them? Masochists by nature, marry them ...
                Better wagons were unloaded for free for the good of Mother Russia!
              5. Evil Tatar
                Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 15: 50 New
                -5
                He certainly apologized, sure. But I think that in his phrase this is not about the inhabitants of the Kuban, but about the horse born there ... Metaphor, ...
                And the only one, along with the crooked-mouthed, is simply swaying, damn ...
                I don’t understand why they are wasting their time. Maybe someone pays them? Masochists by nature, marry them ...
                Better wagons were unloaded for free for the good of Mother Russia!
              6. oper66
                oper66 20 September 2011 15: 58 New
                -3
                Iveng for repetitions Comp suspended administration I ask to delete repetitions
              7. подводник
                подводник 21 September 2011 10: 23 New
                -4
                To the residents of Kuban, my apologies, with the exception of one MARE
            5. Mesniy
              Mesniy 20 September 2011 21: 46 New
              -1
              I am for the red-legged and their current lasts - medveputs, of course I'm not going to substitute my head
              GOAT you are underwater.
          2. Aktium
            Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 20 New
            -3
            Well done Mesniy !!! +100000 Respect!
        2. Aktium
          Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 18 New
          -4
          Our compatriots and friends are not scoops. You are the Stalin-Putin-Medvedev slaves. The last of the Bolshevik scum. Go pray in the mausoleum. Maybe your ghoul will prolong your life.
    2. Aktium
      Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 11 New
      -3
      Your Sailors - just a stupid person. Having two grenades, he could not suppress the firing point. Just like a vodka he devoured, a Komsomol donkey.
  25. Scworetc
    Scworetc 18 September 2011 11: 51 New
    +5
    The Germans captured Poland in two weeks.
    France capitulated for a month.
    The English expeditionary force was completely defeated.
    Under Dunkirk, Hitler stopped the advance of tank groups and entrusted all aviation.
    The British lost all their weapons and equipment, but were able to evacuate about 400000 sodat.
    The Red Army retreated with battles. Fighters and officers fought to the death, showed courage and heroism.
    The German army at that time was the most combat-ready.
    No one would then stand against the Wehrmacht.
    And what our soldiers did is a feat.
    And even if the Panfilov’s heroic deed didn’t, this was done by other unknown heroes, who had detained the Germans and prevented them from reaching Moscow.
    1. ballian
      ballian 18 September 2011 20: 49 New
      -3
      Ok, diplomas - look at the territory of France, Poland. Compare with the territory of the German offensive in the summer-fall of 41. compare the speed of advancement in the summer-autumn of the 41 year, and there - and you will see that the only thing that saved the USSR from defeat is a large territory. The first two echelons of the Red Army were mostly captured and destroyed - few were able to retreat. If not for the vast territory, the Germans would have boasted of their most outstanding victory right now.
      The political leadership of France capitulated - not France, and not a month later, and after xNUMX days, and Poland was captured in a month, (and not two weeks later, after a long time, with the help of the Soviet Army) If you start to compare on a relative scale, it turns out that the French inflicted much greater losses on the Germans in the 40 year than the Red Army in the 40 year.
      1. Scworetc
        Scworetc 19 September 2011 09: 34 New
        -1
        France, under pressure from England, declared war on Germany, and she understood what she was doing. September 3 at 11:00 England, and at 17:00 France declared war on Germany. On September 4, a Franco-Polish agreement on mutual assistance was signed, which in fact never received implementation. By September 4, mobilization in France was completed, and troops were deployed in positions.

        Nevertheless, on September 10, the French armed forces completed deployment in wartime states and numbered almost 5 million people

        The Polish state and its government virtually ceased to exist. Thus, the treaties concluded between the USSR and Poland terminated. Left to itself and left without leadership, Poland turned into a convenient field for all sorts of accidents and surprises that could create a threat to the USSR. Therefore, being hitherto neutral, the Soviet government cannot take a more neutral attitude to these facts, as well as to the defenseless position of the Ukrainian and Belarusian population. In view of this situation, the Soviet government ordered the Red Army High Command to order the troops to cross the border and take under their protection the life and property of the population of Western Belarus and Western Ukraine.
        (From your favorite wikipedii)
        1. ballian
          ballian 19 September 2011 21: 13 New
          -5
          Do not compose any 4 network of mobilization in France.
          No need to bring cheap Stalinist excuses here
          1) The leadership of the USSR was generally not aware of where the Polish government was located - read the “note” that the leadership of the USSR handed over to the Polish embassy on 3 on the night of 17 September.
          2) The documents are declassified - a directive with the DATE of the invasion of Soviet troops to Poland was sent as early as September 14.
          3) The same Meltiukhov, whom you can’t suspect of “liberalism,” says nowhere is clearer that the Polish government left Poland after the invasion of Soviet troops.
    2. Aktium
      Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 26 New
      -6
      Starling, the whole "feat" is the "mass" sacrifice of Russian people with red scum.
  26. Eugene
    Eugene 18 September 2011 13: 40 New
    +4
    Maybe enough about the “scoop”? For 20 years this sounds, and it is already clear that socialism is better than capitalism, with its cannibalistic ideology. This is not about that. About nameless heroes. We, in Crimea, have heard several stories, as during the evacuation 42 years covered the retreat. They stood to death. Or, for example. You are walking along the steppe, there is an obelisk-It is put in memory of the signalmen of the 51st army. Who was there? What happened there in the terrible May days? Or, the outskirts of the village, also a monument - Here are the quartermasters first rank (surname), second rank (surname) and 5 thousand soldiers of the Red Army! Ohrenet !! They fought as they could !!
    1. Mesniy
      Mesniy 18 September 2011 18: 16 New
      -5
      A scoop can be better than capitalism only for an infantile uneducated clumsy whose hands are growing out of the ass.
      I personally was happy when the social system collapsed, I have never regretted a scoop during this time, and I regret that in 91 Russia there was no trial of the CPSU like the Nuremberg tribunal.
      1. slan
        slan 18 September 2011 20: 53 New
        +1
        Mesniy, you must be humiliated at school ..
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 18 September 2011 22: 45 New
          -5
          no, why are there such amazing ideas? By the way, I didn’t feel bad with the scoop either, I had 87-550 salary in 600g. And then I’m all in shekolade. It’s probably someone who offended you, most likely God at birth, but maybe the midwife just dropped it ...
        2. Aktium
          Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 14 New
          -6
          And you, slan, probably in the kindergarten?
    2. Aktium
      Aktium 18 September 2011 23: 27 New
      -5
      And why is socialism better than capitalism? By staging a famine in Ukraine? Or by destroying strong peasant farms, driving everyone into collective farms and state farms? Or maybe by destroying all those who disagree with it? Or maybe because of the Russian people tear off the last piece and help the "fraternal countries" in Africa and Asia?
      1. Vadimburan
        Vadimburan 19 September 2011 02: 42 New
        -1
        At least by the fact that the Soviet Army is a model to which you can equal. This is a terrible enemy
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 30 New
          -3
          Is the Soviet Army a terrible enemy? She was alive while there were human resources. In general, it is not a member of an incapable formation.
        2. Uncle Sam
          Uncle Sam 23 September 2011 04: 45 New
          -1
          "Who served in the army - doesn’t laugh in the circus" of Soviet times, is there a proverb about this "circus" or something? In Chechnya, everything fell into place when the former shepherd-building battalions piled on "invincible and legendary"
        3. Uncle Sam
          Uncle Sam 23 September 2011 04: 50 New
          0
          "Who served in the army - doesn’t laugh in the circus" of Soviet times, is there a proverb about this "circus" or something? In Chechnya, everything fell into place when the former shepherd-building battalions piled on "invincible and legendary"
  27. Mesniy
    Mesniy 18 September 2011 23: 33 New
    -6
    without komunyak v17 coming to power, according to various experts' estimates, the population of Russia would now be at least 300 million people. Probably socialism-communism is so good that it halved the country.
    1. senya
      senya 18 September 2011 23: 55 New
      -3
      Do you hear ... how much the population of the USSR was? ... Freak ... count ... or teach arithmetic ... 300 mil. or maybe?
      1. Mesniy
        Mesniy 19 September 2011 09: 47 New
        -4
        you imbitsil read something you can? it is about the territory of Russia exactly. I do not care how much would have been breeding during this time on the national outskirts.
        The teacher is slanted.
        1. Banshee
          Banshee 19 September 2011 11: 18 New
          -6
          It’s a pity, they walked through the Kuban land sucks ... There clearly had to clean it up among the Cossacks ...
          1. Miracles
            Miracles 19 September 2011 13: 27 New
            -1
            Aren `t you ashamed! My great-grandfather of 3 war passed, the commander of the partisan detachment was, his wife was taken several times to hang. Grandfather guerrilla, then burned in the tank, reached Berlin, another grandfather in the occupation as a kid with hunger hungry for grass. One grandmother was hijacked to the Crimea on foot by work, another elevator was being restored, she was carrying a bucket of concrete to a 50-meter height. After the war, we all survived the terrible famine, they ate-removed. Then on the collective farms they plowed like damned, they restored the country for people like you. So that you walked so badly as in Kuban land and Cossacks.
            1. Banshee
              Banshee 19 September 2011 14: 28 New
              -2
              I am not ashamed, because I was referring to the brightest representative of the Kuban Cossacks, Mr. Mesniy.
              It was written under his post, if that.
              Do not rush without looking at each post, first read carefully what he writes and that I write. Feel the difference, so to speak.
              1. Mesniy
                Mesniy 19 September 2011 19: 45 New
                -4
                I’ve already answered you, I’ll add from myself - my grandfather fought from the age of 39 while he was at war - some of his relatives were fucked by komunyaki, his grandfather’s brother fought from the first days, got imprisoned, the Americans were released, he returned to the fools , received 10 years of camps, and died there.
                I don’t care for taps * razi and people like you * indicate creatures * thirsty.
                Die aphids, so that you are a scumbag walked like that.
                1. figwam
                  figwam 19 September 2011 23: 53 New
                  -3
                  No tantrums! My grandfather was also captured, the British were released. They sent to Siberia to live (because he was captured civilian) the family did not suffer in the post-war years, they lived like everyone else. The second grandfather went through the whole war was wounded, shell-shocked. Died prematurely, the effects of wounds.
                  Likely, if the reds were so terrible, then your father would not be able to live in the USSR, and you would not have been born. And you simply weren’t sent to the camp, you don’t agree on something.
                  1. Banshee
                    Banshee 20 September 2011 00: 57 New
                    -2
                    Mesniy, I’m great to disappoint you. I'm not red .. I am a descendant of the nobility of the Russian Empire. And before 1917, we had a lot of things: two houses in St. Petersburg on Vasilyevsky Island, and villages with people, a lot of things.
                    And my grandfathers fought as well as everyone for this country. And one of the grandfathers was taken prisoner, fled to the Americans, and for a year worked as a translator for them (since 5 knew languages). And I got 25 years for it and 10 rights disfavor.
                    Just unlike some calometes, I am an adequate person and do not let the foam on everything red. This is my country, and I do not care what it is called, the USSR or Russia.
                    And do not die, you will not wait.
                    And you, trupak political, howl and on, There is nothing left for you, alas.
                    1. Aktium
                      Aktium 20 September 2011 01: 12 New
                      -3
                      A nobleman was found. Hm. A joke is recalled. The reception of Peter the Great. The Tsar asks Menshikov: Who else is there? Alexasha replies: Georgian prince and lieutenant of the Russian Army. Answer: Lieutenant come on, and the Georgian Prince tomorrow ... Banshee, I’m wondering, where did your grandfather serve, if not a secret? By the way, we are trying to find a common language, and you and others like you are stubbornly agitating for communism. Somehow this does not fit with your noble past, albeit a "Georgian" one. In principle, indeed, it may not matter what the country is called. Only the people under the Soviet Deputies were killed a lot, unlike Imperial Russia. And if you are a nobleman, but campaigning for the Soviet Deputies, then what kind of "nobleman" are you. Excuse me, red -Remitted swearing.
                    2. ytqnhfk
                      ytqnhfk 20 September 2011 09: 52 New
                      -2
                      HOW POWERED IS AUTHORIZED, THIS IS ONE, BUT PEOPLE AND HOMELAND IS OTHER! And to those who do not understand this, they live very poorly here, on this earth, I mean PLANET! For you have NOTHING!
                    3. Mesniy
                      Mesniy 20 September 2011 21: 40 New
                      -2
                      Well, you’re like Pavlik Morozov, it explains a lot, and the corpses are fascist communists, your “great” social system left pathetic spitters, and they’ll disappear.
                      A red and a scoop I have harmed with 17let, and I teach children this.
                  2. Aktium
                    Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 38 New
                    -4
                    Yes bl.d. In which parts of your grandfathers fought? Say the number, -discussion-Krasnopuzye removed. Your words are not worth a jigger. Not a single fact. If it is already, mold.
                  3. Mesniy
                    Mesniy 20 September 2011 21: 29 New
                    -4
                    “But they just didn’t send you to the camp” - you’ve simply ram, there’s no reason to talk to you. You didn’t hold the book in your hands except
                    1. figwam
                      figwam 21 September 2011 00: 17 New
                      -1
                      Hear you fart old, I didn’t pass on personal insults. Now I will spread rot for YOU.
                      1. Mesniy
                        Mesniy 22 September 2011 11: 22 New
                        0
                        * Are you sick, by the way I'm still not old, I could have tapped you in the tambourine empty.
                  4. Mesniy
                    Mesniy 20 September 2011 21: 33 New
                    0
                    “But they just didn’t send you to the camp” - you’ve simply ram, there’s no reason to talk to you. You didn’t hold the book in your hands except
                  5. Mesniy
                    Mesniy 20 September 2011 21: 34 New
                    0
                    “But they just didn’t send you to the camp” - you’ve simply ram, there’s no reason to talk to you. You didn’t hold the book in your hands except
                  6. Mesniy
                    Mesniy 20 September 2011 21: 35 New
                    0
                    “But they just didn’t send you to the camp” - you’ve simply ram, there’s no reason to talk to you. You didn’t hold the book in your hands except
              2. Aktium
                Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 35 New
                -1
                This is how the red buggers are constantly justified. Worried commies.
              3. oper66
                oper66 20 September 2011 23: 47 New
                -1
                dear once again, I ask you not to take it seriously and not to trample the insults of the inhabitants of the Kuban all the more so the Kuban Cossacks — this individual is related to us only by the fact of growth on our land
      2. Aktium
        Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 34 New
        -1
        Hey, Senya collective farm, the proletarian cattle, the population of the USSR, according to official figures, was 200 million people. Remember the phrase by Zoya Kosmodemyanskaya, “We are 200 million, we don’t outweigh everyone.” By the way, the peasants themselves handed it over to the German authorities.
  28. senya
    senya 18 September 2011 23: 51 New
    -6
    it’s necessary not to Panfilovtsi ..... it’s necessary to write the Chechens .. so it’s more political ... the North Caucasian divisions saved the USSR ...
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 19 September 2011 11: 25 New
      -4
      Ty ryussky learn to write, right? there is such a stitch, a Word, there is a little red-haired being drawn when there is no place to poke ...

      North Caucasian, our savior obschiy ...
  29. Eugene
    Eugene 19 September 2011 08: 55 New
    -4
    It’s interesting, but in Georgia there were Panfilov’s, in August 2008? Has anyone heard?
    1. Aktium
      Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 40 New
      -5
      Panfilov’s weren’t there. But if the “dear Russians” had gone ahead, they would have raked the piz.yachek.
  30. Sanzyro
    Sanzyro 19 September 2011 09: 50 New
    -1
    They started about the Panfilov’s, they ended up incomprehensibly with what ... They only forget, comrades the trolls, that when the division commander began to learn about 28 heroes who had accomplished the feat, he replied that he knew nothing about this particular case ... Because the division was dead! He especially emphasized it !!! So, there were actually more trollites, Panfilov’s, and if you take the whole war, then it’s impossible to calculate such cases ...
    1. stas
      stas 19 September 2011 14: 32 New
      -2
      Indeed, some personalities with their swagger comments are similar to that careless mother who, after bathing her one-month-old baby, poured water from the bathtub along with the baby into the toilet.
      But, it is already useless to explain and prove something to them, all the same they are not given to understand this.
      1. Aktium
        Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 41 New
        -3
        Red grebe, with your comments the whole site is fucked up.
  31. Miracles
    Miracles 19 September 2011 12: 46 New
    0
    Read the book “Behind Us Moscow” by Baurjan Momysh-ula. The author was the commander of the battalion in this division, and when the commander of the 1073rd regiment was removed from his post, he was transferred to the command of the regiment (senior lieutenant). The war ended with the commander of the guard division. The division was multinational, but everyone fought for their homeland. It is not necessary to make an ethnic squabble out of a holy feat.
    1. Aktium
      Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 42 New
      -6
      Momysh-ouly is a fox of historical authority. You would still recommend Comrade Stalin to read.
  32. stas
    stas 19 September 2011 14: 06 New
    -2
    German Chancellor, Otto von Bismarck (1815-1898)

    The power of Russia may be undermined. To do this, you only need to find and nurture national traitors and, with their help, change the identity of one part of the great people to such an extent that they will hate everything Russian, hate their kind, without realizing it. Everything else is a matter of time.
    1. Banshee
      Banshee 19 September 2011 14: 19 New
      -2
      In general, it turned out. Examples can be found including here, among the writers. But with the matter of time - not a fact. The question is not only in the presence of haters, but also in the quantity and quality of those who oppose them.

      I translate: for %% tsya undermine. Although a lot of work has been done in this area, that line is coming, beyond which everything is already ...
      But it was at such boundaries that our people worked wonders.
      1. Aktium
        Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 44 New
        -1
        And you don’t need to undermine anything. You yourself will ruin everything.
        1. ytqnhfk
          ytqnhfk 20 September 2011 09: 56 New
          -1
          AHA, the main thing is that YOU would not help and would sit there somewhere behind a hill!
        2. Banshee
          Banshee 20 September 2011 10: 24 New
          -2
          And what, I'm sorry, are you doing so as not to fall apart? Perdit on the Internet and rejoice that there is a possibility for this?
    2. Aktium
      Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 46 New
      -3
      Can you tell me the source? Or is it another pearl of the "Soviet novelists"?
  33. dmb
    dmb 19 September 2011 14: 19 New
    -1
    There is such a category of people who are not completely mentally healthy who love to attract attention by expressing themselves contrary to facts, and doing so in an aggressively offensive manner. Believe me, the less we pay attention to the “local” ones, the faster they will “fade”. We have differences in positions and ratings, but we are sane people. So let's discuss this with each other without paying attention to petty provocateurs and embittered losers.
    1. stas
      stas 19 September 2011 16: 10 New
      -1
      I support, indeed these individuals have long been absenteeism written in psychiatric clinics, but they will not understand everything. It is not worth paying any attention to them until they show a certificate of sanity.
      1. mar.tira
        mar.tira 19 September 2011 18: 04 New
        -3
        We must pay attention! After all, an article about it! My former Minister of Defense at whom I demobilized, and writes about this. You can’t give a reason to mock the dead After all, they count on this that we will doubt that we are weak, that the state that we destroyed, we destroyed correctly. Now we must destroy the people, to drive into it the insecurity and despair that for how many years they served the Motherland, people, and not the CPSU served in vain, it turns out we did not know what was happening then. And in general we are insignificants in comparison with them, the guardians of Western democracy.
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 19 September 2011 19: 35 New
          -1
          Well, in principle, you wrote everything correctly. Everything is all bad.
        2. stas
          stas 19 September 2011 22: 29 New
          -3
          mar.tira, from the point of view of humanity and justice, you are absolutely right, but from the point of view of the psychology of those individuals who write their swag comments completely ignoring them will have a more effective and efficient consequence, they act on the principle of a show, which according to the same principle in the absence of spectators disappears from the scene itself.
          1. Aktium
            Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 49 New
            -1
            Toadstool is pale red.
      2. Aktium
        Aktium 20 September 2011 01: 17 New
        -2
        Psychiatric clinics, introduced by Nikita Khrushchev. Who promised to build communism by the 80th year ..
      3. Aktium
        Aktium 20 September 2011 02: 47 New
        -1
        You are what kind of fox psychozdorovye. Even trembling takes.
    2. Mesniy
      Mesniy 19 September 2011 19: 38 New
      -4
      No, you don’t distort, we are giving irrefutable facts, but you have nothing to say and you start to hysteria, I’ve just not offended the first, they are like you do. And with my psyche I’m all okay, the specifics of the other’s work allow, my nervous friend.
      1. подводник
        подводник 19 September 2011 23: 36 New
        0
        Yes, you hysteria unfinished petsik !!!
        1. Aktium
          Aktium 20 September 2011 01: 19 New
          -2
          Submariner, how is this unfinished Petsik? What did you mean by that? Are you probably also an indoor communist? Proletarian mold?
  34. Aktium
    Aktium 20 September 2011 01: 44 New
    -2
    I tried to put an article on the site. But apparently it’s completely red-bellied. So there isn’t enough evil yet to respond to pederastic moronic comments. not to give him a false rating. Any Banshees, Sanziro, Submariners, Stas, Mitrichi and other Bolshevik buggers do not matter to me, but what is happening on this pederastic site exceeds all moral and prudent standards. There are no objective data. One hysteria and squeals. The site supports Medvedev and former commies.
    1. Foamas
      Foamas 20 September 2011 01: 56 New
      -2
      There are really a huge number of admirers of Marxist-communist tales.
  35. zczczc
    zczczc 20 September 2011 03: 15 New
    -1
    Well it’s necessary to spoil the topic ... I went into a sump.
    1. LESHA pancake
      LESHA pancake 20 September 2011 04: 28 New
      -1
      IN BOURGEIN (AKTIUM) WAS BROUGHTING WATERING WITH ITS SNAPPERS TO ALL WHO WHO ARE NOT AGREED.
  36. Sanzyro
    Sanzyro 20 September 2011 10: 35 New
    -1
    And pay attention to the shoulder straps of "our" militant trolls ... Doesn’t resemble anything ?? True, sometimes he climbs out in such roundabout ways ... wink
    1. ballian
      ballian 20 September 2011 19: 15 New
      -2
      Do you and me consider you a "troll"? In general, if here I am commenting, it is only with arguments and facts.
      Why minus - even a fool is clear - the truth hurts his eyes.
      1. Banshee
        Banshee 20 September 2011 23: 26 New
        -3
        You water all the shit. Of course you're a troll.
        1. ballian
          ballian 22 September 2011 08: 16 New
          0
          Well, I'm not a fool to call my fingers like some if I agree with something already :))
          1. Banshee
            Banshee 22 September 2011 17: 44 New
            -3
            For a fool no one holds you.
      2. Sanzyro
        Sanzyro 20 September 2011 23: 42 New
        -1
        Truth - truth is discord ... And in bare facts you will find it a little ... How many defenders of the Brest Fortress kept ?? Based on the facts - well, ... I had to give up, right? A German was standing near Moscow, how many were captured - facts? Facts! So it was necessary, like a paddling pool - to wallow for a week and based on facts - paws to the top! Based on the facts, the war was almost lost. Hans, based on the facts, quite sincerely thought so. Everyone was perplexed - that these barbarians were rustling, because that's all, the end is already! This is something that people of pragmatic "realism" do not understand - how these things happened ... Contrary to the facts! Therefore, they are called- EXPERIENCE, and not some other word.
  37. Evil Tatar
    Evil Tatar 20 September 2011 15: 55 New
    -1
    I want to note, the villain Aktsium, that no one is campaigning for communism here, everyone is talking about their relatives and friends of the dead, missing, dead ... Heroes and not so much, civil and military, Russians and Tatars, and other Russians. And only your Kodla of the two insane provokes normal people to discuss with you topics that are gnawed, like a pencil from a portfolio that your asshole for some reason took out of a dusty closet. You throw it, your portfolio is in the trash, become easier or something, and then many will begin to understand what you want to say. And then on such a serious forum, and suddenly such scum ... Ahhhhhh!
  38. Banshee
    Banshee 20 September 2011 23: 25 New
    -1
    Quote: Akcium
    This is how the red buggers are constantly justified. Worried commies.

    Quote: Akcium
    Yes bl.d. In which parts of your grandfathers fought? Say the number, -discussion-Krasnopuzye removed. Your words are not worth a jigger. Not a single fact. If it is already, mold.

    Quote: Mesniy
    A red and a scoop I have harmed with 17let, and I teach children this.

    Quote: Akcium
    Hear you, Senya kolkhoz, cattle

    Quote: Akcium
    and do not undermine anything. You yourself ruin everything.


    He remembered the stories of his grandfather: "You sit in a trench, silence, you want to sleep, and then they start yelling because of a hillock in the mother-in-arms" Valiant Russian soldiers! The war you lost, soon the German army will be in Moscow, kill your commanders and political commanders and surrender! You will be fed and treated with respect! "And such anger takes, nothing is needed anymore, just to tear them to the last."

    In my opinion, very similar. It is a pity, Akcium, Balian and Mesnina, that you then had a horn. There would be the place for you. With all that it implies, in 45. Or earlier.
    1. Sanzyro
      Sanzyro 21 September 2011 00: 10 New
      -2
      Now this site has its own sonderkommand! It remains only to appoint non-commissioned. Offer Aktsium - a true Aryan, he said it himself! wink
  39. Banshee
    Banshee 21 September 2011 14: 11 New
    -1
    No, not Sonderkommando. Cool for them.

    Here an article flashed about the invention of a new miracle weapon in Israel -% of a number.
    Here is the calculation of this instrument:

    local - oberg% vakhmistrov, the commander of the calculation, as the oldest by age, that by rating, and the most poisonous;

    Ballian -% vnovakhmistr, gunner-operator;

    Actium - simply Mr.% Vnuk, shells carrier.

    Just right, in my opinion.
    1. Sanzyro
      Sanzyro 22 September 2011 08: 25 New
      -3
      I’ll clarify the third point - not only the carrier, but also their manufacturer! wink
    2. Mesniy
      Mesniy 22 September 2011 11: 20 New
      -1
      And from this glorious instrument according to your early Marxism-Leninism and proletarian internationalism, to everyone who is social and socialist, and to you and the like in the face at the same time. Eat.
      1. Sanzyro
        Sanzyro 22 September 2011 14: 07 New
        -4
        I look, I liked the post! Do not be shy ... By post you see what you liked.
  40. подводник
    подводник 22 September 2011 12: 50 New
    -2
    Mesniy-congratulations on the assignment of an extraordinary rank !!! With your boys will you wash?
  41. подводник
    подводник 22 September 2011 12: 52 New
    -3
    DMITRY TIMOFEEVICH YAZOV - MARSHALL OF THE SOVIET UNION !!!!
    1. Uncle Sam
      Uncle Sam 23 September 2011 04: 53 New
      -5
      He is an old senile, and in 91 - just a brake.
  42. Priest
    Priest 27 September 2011 23: 04 New
    -2
    TIN. From what you read (Slavic brothers go round and round), or maybe you shouldn’t do blind licking of a limited - surface info from the Internet? - but you should read a certain amount of literature, analyze, draw conclusions and speak your mind - but not "heard a bell - but not I know where he is. " smile