Difficult question Donetsk friends

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On the Day of Military Glory (February 2), we celebrate the victory in the Battle of Stalingrad. This is a great holiday for Russian people, and not only Russian ones. However, just today, having accidentally watched a documentary about the heroism of the defenders of Stalingrad, I suddenly caught myself on the terrible thought that in the news a few minutes earlier I had already seen the same ruins in the Donbass. Donetsk land is also no stranger to me, because the best years of my youth were spent there - in the Donetsk Higher Military-Political School.

I am from the latest Soviet issues. After school I served, but found my place in the civilian world. Never lost contact with classmates, exchanged visits often, noted the round dates of issues. With great pleasure I always came to Donetsk to invariably hospitable friends who were more dear to many relatives. Thank God, while everyone is alive, however, there is something that I cannot understand, and given the latest events, especially. No, we do not “send” each other, but the difference in positions does not allow to discuss the situation freely.

I want it to be clear: now I’m not talking about those friends who are against this medieval obscurantism, otherwise I’ll have the opinion that everyone is like that.

It all started on 3 May, when the answer came to my text about the tragedy in Odessa: "Yes, Putin has crossed all the borders." For the next hours of 3 I was in a state of groggy. Then I was still naive, I did not understand that the transformation had already begun. Rather, the fact that the last couple of decades had been driven into the heads of even fairly independent-minded people broke out into hell of nonsense.

Next - everything according to plan, the whole trump “iconostasis”: militias - gopniks and homeless people, Russian troops, Tanks T-90, Chechnya, "squeezed the car", etc. To whom it is interesting, open any "Ukrainian truth". You will not find any differences.

So, this is still going on, when “friendly” ammunition is already flying on their heads. Already in the city center - at the headquarters of the park Shcherbakov, Leninsky district. Native Bosse, unhappy people in the trolleybus and on Kuprin Street, who happened to be nearby. By the way, the school is located on the street. Kuprina, meters in 400 from this place. Shop next to the arch, where we bought sausage, vodka and salad "Autumn" in glass bottles. What kind of life was it when it ended?

I remember the disputes with classmates - residents of the Soviet then Ukraine, who argued that their republic was feeding the entire Union. The arguments were not hot, we, who are from the RSFSR, didn’t mind too much, as the breadbasket, yes. However, the disputes were purely theoretical, as they couldn’t climb into the head of the cadet, which will happen literally in a couple of years. And not only cadet. Somehow about the breadbasket did not work, it turned out that the breadbasket was still at a different address. Like so much more.

This is much more - the memory of the ancestors who fought in the Second World War, Soviet songs and films that are now banned in nenka, common sense, rejection of Nazism, gay propaganda and the removal of children from their families, culture, the Olympiad and many other things that form the basis healthy society. Just do not be ironic about the thesis of a healthy Russian society, everything is known in comparison. However, this is a topic for another conversation.

Why am I doing this? The position of my three Donetsk friends seems to me a betrayal. The betrayal of their grandfathers, who fought against Bandera and the Nazis, for their Donetsk and Soviet lands. Now the APU through 70 years repeats the "exploits" of the Wehrmacht, and this is justified by them! Truly, through the looking glass! So we are enemies now? And as a friend, I do not have the right to such tough words? Probably not, but how then to be?

PS A couple of weeks ago, my son found through the Internet a submission to the order of one sergeant artilleryman, commander of a gun crew, dated February 1943 (Stalingrad). Sergeant Smirnov (real name) received his honored Order "For Military Merit" only in 1985 year. It was my son's great-grandfather.
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  1. +41
    3 February 2015 07: 32
    Comrade political officer. "For Military Merit" is a medal.
    1. +94
      3 February 2015 08: 00
      This one does not change the essence. Medal for Stalingrad. And the Mongol is proud of it. AND DOES CORRECTLY
      1. -59
        3 February 2015 08: 11
        How does it not change ...)))? The order will be higher in rank !!!
        1. nvv
          nvv
          +24
          3 February 2015 08: 49
          Sorry Mongol, but this mistake of yours does not cross out, but leaves some kind of sediment of mistrust. College graduate?
          1. +31
            3 February 2015 08: 54
            Guys, are you so petty? Order or medal: who cares? What does this change in essence? The fact that the rank of the award is different, changes the fact that in Ukraine, like many years ago, peaceful cities again bombed?
            1. avg
              +30
              3 February 2015 10: 31
              I completely agree with the article, but this error just cut it. In a professional environment, this is an indicator, roughly like the "oscilloscope needle" in Latynina. Mistakes like these breed distrust.
              And if in comments this is still permissible (people will correct), then when writing an article, you need to check the information.
              1. WKS
                +4
                3 February 2015 12: 21
                The position of my three Donetsk friends seems to me a betrayal. The betrayal of their grandfathers, who fought against Bandera and the Nazis, for their Donetsk and Soviet lands.

                The civil war is in this way different from the war with a foreign adversary. And it is good that in this case they are fellow students at the school, and not relatives or childhood friends.
                1. -11
                  5 February 2015 18: 28
                  Civil she would be in the USSR. Ukraine and Russia are two different states. Breaking the border in any direction is a crime!
                  Weapons on the road do not roll (at least in my city). In the posts of this site through the war of Russia and Ukraine.
                  1. +3
                    5 February 2015 20: 57
                    "The posts on this site show through the war between Russia and Ukraine"
                    Oh, how neglected it all is! Judging by your shoulder straps, you are still a young man. I don't want to offend you, but God forbid, this "war" could end with Ukraine becoming a noun and being written with a small letter...
                  2. Aspirin
                    +1
                    6 February 2015 00: 19
                    Quote: Nikolaev5
                    Civil she would be in the USSR. Ukraine and Russia are two different states. Breaking the border in any direction is a crime!
                    Weapons on the road do not roll (at least in my city). In the posts of this site through the war of Russia and Ukraine.

                    Ага.
                    Do you think Svidomo in Russia has forgotten your "exploits" in Abkhazia, Ossetia, Chechnya?
                    And recently, you’ve generally swollen already openly began to kill Russians, and even boast of it.
                    Chemoan station galicia svidomit.
                  3. Aspirin
                    +1
                    6 February 2015 00: 45
                    Why the hell are you still not in the trenches? Galician freebie in a quilted jacket danger go away from your madhouse. Who will feed you Ukrainians?
                    This is the fourth grave, and you are still not ready for the earth. lol
                    As usual, Ukrainians are ready to kill only the unarmed. And as a resistance, they immediately have a keel or a hernia. How can it not burn unarmed.


                    And do not puff about your place of birth. negative Byut, as you know, not in the passport, but in the face.
                    Many of you Nazi henchmen, using the stupid humanism of the Soviet regime, hid in Novorossia from Ukraine, so that they would not be recognized for crimes.
                    Now creep out.
              2. +4
                3 February 2015 13: 58
                I completely agree with the article, but this mistake just cut it.
                When you write in one breath, you can make a mistake. Especially when the error results in a minor inaccuracy (maybe the soldier was presented to the order, but received a medal. Maybe the medal was in a hurry called the order). Judging by the article - everything can be checked - there are dates and a name (this is especially doubtful). I am too lazy to do this personally - Smirnov is a very common surname and you can spend a lot of time on the "People's Feat" website. From my own example - I personally know 2 graduates of this school and one of them also bears the name SMIRNOV). So the emphasis should probably be on something else. And 85 in the USSR - the year of awarding veterans with the Order of the Great Patriotic War of the 1st and 2nd degree
                1. +2
                  3 February 2015 14: 44
                  Yes, my grandfather (he was wounded near Rzhev) was presented to the order, and received a medal. These are the zigzags of fate. Although on the spot, it was probably better known who deserved what. And they decided "at the top".
              3. +1
                6 February 2015 01: 31
                Mongol clearly wrote from the beginning that he just graduated from the institute, served a little and left for civilian life.... And then, many, many years later, his son found his great-grandfather's medal... If a person only saw medals and orders on TV, then there is no need to be angry with him... Just as his son told him, so he wrote... Well done for looking for relatives from the Great Patriotic War!!! I only found burial places in the archives from my own... And that was somehow joyful... I didn't lose... And here is an award! And regarding the article, I agree... I have a cousin there, so for them we were yamis - beggars, and did not even respond to postcards with congratulations! Honestly, I only saw them in a photo, my father told me: "if you don't want to spoil the opinion of the Ukrainians, don't go to them (relatives)"! And I didn't go... My service began in 88. in GSVG, and in November of this year DMB, 45 years old.... And for six months now I have been their "best friend".... I am in shock... They have trouble in their country, it seems, purely in Russian style why send...But I can't... I was born in the USSR...I'm proud of it...And I help as much as I can...But what can I do...We are Russians...It's like this: first we beat each other's faces, and then we drink to each other's health together...Time heals...There are some things that you should forgive your friends...And there are some things that you should remind them of periodically...
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. +4
              5 February 2015 17: 40
              "... Without looking into the distance,
              So I say: why do I need an order?
              I agree to the medal. "

              V.T. Twardovsky
              1. 0
                5 February 2015 22: 37
                Sorry, but it would be more correct to write
                Vasiliy Terkin
                Twardowski A.T.
          2. +6
            3 February 2015 08: 56
            that you attacked the author - the Mongol?
            there is such an order, established in 1945 .... in Mongolia !!!!
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. 0
              3 February 2015 09: 18
              It was established in 1945, but was it introduced in 1943? for Stalingrad?
              1. 0
                3 February 2015 11: 04
                What was established in the 45th? Do not tell me.
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. +3
                  3 February 2015 12: 30
                  For those who do not understand, I suggest.
                  The article says that:
                  "presentation to the order of one artillery sergeant, the commander of a gun crew, dated February 1943 (Stalingrad). Sergeant Smirnov (real name) received his well-deserved order" For Military Merit "only in 1985"
                  Question: how can one submit to an order which has not yet been established? (or the author of the article called the order a medal?)
                  1. +2
                    3 February 2015 13: 03
                    Quote: diz1975
                    For those who do not understand, I suggest.

                    Similarly, there is such a father among the awards. The awards did not reach many people, especially those who had fought since they were 41. For various reasons, even if they reached all relatives. But better later than never.
                  2. 0
                    3 February 2015 19: 33
                    Question: how can one submit to an order which has not yet been established? (or the author of the article called the order a medal?)
                    But it doesn’t say there that they presented it in 1943 specifically for this award; it was possible that they presented it for another one, but they gave it in 1985 “For Military Merit”.
                  3. +5
                    5 February 2015 09: 12
                    The medal "For Combat Merit" was established by Decree of the Presidium of the USSR Armed Forces dated 17.10.1938/XNUMX/XNUMX "On the establishment of the medal" For Combat Merit "."
                    What stuck like stubborn rams. I am also a reserve officer and also sometimes confuse orders and medals - so what ?!
              2. 0
                3 February 2015 11: 50
                Quote: diz1975
                It was established in 1945, but was it introduced in 1943? for Stalingrad?



                If only to blurt out? The person was awarded deservedly. Many orders and medals for valor, for military merit, were instituted after the fighting, and the blame for the late rewarding of the Heroes rests on the shoulders of slow, and under the hour cynical bureaucrats and rear rats, and not on people who gave their lives.
                1. +6
                  3 February 2015 12: 39
                  Quote: Victor-M
                  Quote: diz1975
                  It was established in 1945, but was it introduced in 1943? for Stalingrad?



                  If only to blurt out? The person was awarded deservedly. Many orders and medals for valor, for military merit, were instituted after the fighting, and the blame for the late rewarding of the Heroes rests on the shoulders of slow, and under the hour cynical bureaucrats and rear rats, and not on people who gave their lives.

                  If someone writes an article, he must be attentive and precise. Especially if he writes about the heroic deeds of our soldiers in the Great Patriotic War. Especially in our time, when there are bastards in the West who question the feat of our people, focusing on inaccuracies. They are now trying to rewrite history. And we must not allow this.
                2. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
          3. +4
            3 February 2015 09: 07
            [
            Quote: nvv
            Sorry Mongol, but this mistake of yours does not cross out, but leaves some kind of sediment of mistrust. College graduate?

            Just a typo IMHO hi
          4. +3
            3 February 2015 09: 14
            Yes, in Donetsk there was a political school of communications. I don’t remember the name exactly, I served with the graduates of this school. They produced quite decent political officers there, and as techies they were quite efficient, especially radio relay men.
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. 0
                3 February 2015 20: 26
                Exactly! Of the pearls of one graduate of KVVPAU (former Kurgan Higher Military Political Aviation School): "As the ancient Romans said: warned, then notified!" M, yes, earlier the commissars shouted: "Do as I do!", Political officials, later: "Do as I said!"
          5. pahom54
            +5
            3 February 2015 10: 43
            Quote: nvv
            College graduate?


            Especially - political ...

            Maybe the daughter of an officer?
            1. nvv
              nvv
              +2
              3 February 2015 11: 09
              Quote: pahom54
              Quote: nvv
              College graduate?


              Especially - political ...

              Maybe the daughter of an officer?

              Okay, Yura, let's not find fault with the "little things". Article "good, patriotic" Beat your own people so that others are afraid. The main thing I remember was the friendship through a nearby store where they took vodka. And now it is the enemy. Yesterday one gave out "carpet bombing !!!!" Fine. No man, no problem. And do not bother, but what happened to the people there? Why are you mad?
        2. +5
          3 February 2015 08: 50
          Do pride in ancestors and their memory have ranks?
          1. nvv
            nvv
            +7
            3 February 2015 09: 15
            Quote: Jack-B
            Do pride in ancestors and their memory have ranks?

            Eugene. Do you understand what I asked the Mongol? He reproaches his friends for making a mistake. A mistake is made by a graduate of a military school by confusing the medal with the order. Doubt creeps in. Graduate? Mongol if you are here. Explain. I'm sorry.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +7
          3 February 2015 11: 01
          Not always. The medal "For Courage" was valued above the order.
          1. +6
            3 February 2015 14: 09
            Quote: Sergey Trifonov
            Not always. The medal "For Courage" was valued above the order.

            and the Knights of the Order of Glory are fewer than the heroes of the Union, by the way, my grandfather deserved two, the third was diluted with a Red Star.
        5. lankrus
          +4
          3 February 2015 11: 41
          Quote: igorka357
          The order will be higher in rank !!!


          A rare order can be compared with the "Hero of the Soviet Union" medal.
        6. +5
          3 February 2015 12: 11
          Quote: igorka357
          The order will be higher in rank !!!
          The question is eternal ...
        7. +5
          3 February 2015 13: 13
          Remember, at Twardowski, in Turkin:
          - No guys, I'm not proud.
          Without making a distance
          So I say: why do I need an order?
          I agree to the medal.

          To the medal. And then not in a hurry.
          That ended the war,
          I wish I came on vacation
          On the home side.

          Will I still be alive? - Hardly.
          Then fight, not guess.
          But I’ll say about the medal:
          Give it to me then.
      2. +1
        3 February 2015 20: 00
        It changes! And how! Because of such "mistakes" and "typos", Poland (!) does not forbid us (!) to celebrate Victory Day. We have had enough, we have come to such a low point... If a political officer (in the Polish sense - a red commissar) confuses an order with a medal... I have the same problem, two grandfathers died at Stalingrad, without orders, without graves, only photographs remained. The "political officers", God forgive me, are the last to realize that Russia is now in full view of the whole world, mistakes are not allowed...
    2. +12
      3 February 2015 09: 10
      A small lie or mistake gives rise to great doubt.

      The deputy politician called the famous and worthy medal the order. Maybe he was wrong (which is very strange to me) or told a lie and then the rest of the article somehow fades and casts doubt on the sincerity and responsibility of the author.
      1. nvv
        nvv
        +6
        3 February 2015 09: 28
        THIS IS I WANTED TO SAY.
        1. +2
          3 February 2015 10: 08
          And I have relatives of a different orientation in Donetsk and Krasnoarmeysk.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. +1
      3 February 2015 11: 08
      And no one thought that he wrote this phrase in view of what he received the order for? Not the name of the reward.
    5. 0
      4 February 2015 16: 14
      '' Comrade political officer. "For military merit" is a medal. ”Zampolites, even in Soviet times, were distinguished by their“ education ”.
      1. +1
        5 February 2015 08: 54
        littered the article. order medal. the point is that healthy young men with trunks and women are standing in line for the evacuation. ashamed. running down the street after another shelling and exclaiming "DOCOLI" will this continue? I will answer, it will continue for a long time, while all sorts of pacifists there, will hope. that the war will pass them by, and victory will be won without his personal efforts.
        1. 0
          5 February 2015 20: 48
          What do you mean, "muddied" ?! More important to you is the "running" of healthy men with trunks ?! No, dear "Core"! When the "political officers" confuse the "order-medal", and then resent (from Russia) against the graduates who betray, this is where the question arises: "How long!"
          Three questions:
          1. Until, healthy men from Ukraine will begin, both to take hardships and not to hide in the territory of the aggressor.
          2. Until, graduates of numerous military schools of Ukraine, remember that they are officers.
          3. Until, Russia will cease to be an aggressor ...?
          Well?!
    6. The comment was deleted.
    7. sdg32dg
      0
      5 February 2015 07: 02
      I want to give one piece of advice! I quit smoking 100 times, probably to no avail, until I read about this method, after a week I already forgot what a cigarette is, everything is correctly painted here http://dimasmok.blogspot.com
  2. +11
    3 February 2015 07: 35
    Why am I doing this? The position of my three Donetsk friends seems to me a betrayal.
    Yes there are such. There were also those who immediately ran to surrender their neighbors under the dill authorities. There are enough chameleons. Unfortunately the traitors were always ...


    Order of Military Merit - ????
  3. +31
    3 February 2015 07: 37
    My father's friends at work came a long time ago from Kramatorsk for distribution and have been living in Nsk for 40 years. So, they can’t even talk on the phone with their cousins ​​and brothers who remained in Kramatorsk, because they mother their Putin agents and hang up. I can’t even feel what they feel.
    But this is scary and incomprehensible.
    1. +11
      3 February 2015 07: 48
      Our leadership will continue to chew snot pretending that the outrage in the Donbas concerns us, but only as an internal conflict in Ukraine, tomorrow people will turn their back on us and the last! Yes, they will not turn to Poroshenko, but they will turn away from Russia ...
      1. gorge1945
        +14
        3 February 2015 08: 40
        Dear, you want Russia to send troops into Nova Russia, change your mind
        this will lead to the fact that the US and NATO will instantly intervene in the conflict, they
        just waiting for it. We need help with equipment, food and
        medicines. If the US Congress decides to supply lethal weapons to Ukraine, we will be able to legally supply Novo Russia with its weapons, not to mention volunteers. The leadership of Russia is to blame for everything that is happening in Ukraine now, for 23 years they supported the Ukrainian economy with billions of loans, not seeing that there was a zombie of the Ukrainian population, so they got what we have for mediocre international politics.
        1. +7
          3 February 2015 09: 12
          ... but let’s take, for example, only and exclusively me! here I am personally (!!!) well, I’m never sure and very much doubt that the US and NATO will instantly intervene in the conflict,
          Do they intervene a lot in Georgia, Ossetia and Abkhazia? and there were American weapons and equipment - at least (in one place - Roskomnadzor banned!) eat! helped them their Poles (in the sense - the Georgians)? And now, with the resonance that the current conflict has acquired - even more so! ... Given Russia's demonstrative behavior in the field of reforms in the army and navy, and rearmament ...
          1. +2
            3 February 2015 10: 06
            Demonstrative behavior would not be only DEMONSTRATIVE. And the 5th column in power continues to collapse.
        2. +8
          3 February 2015 09: 21
          Nobody will intervene anywhere! Ukraine is a bunch of rotten potatoes to intervene in a war with a nuclear power for its sake! They will sing and die out!
        3. +5
          3 February 2015 09: 25
          Quote: gorge1945
          Dear, you want Russia to send troops into Nova Russia, change your mind
          this will lead to the fact that the US and NATO will instantly intervene in the conflict, they
          just waiting for it.


          Crimea? No, I do not remember?
          Russia introduced troops, even if they were not formally introduced, but were already there. But in order for the troops to leave their locations and take control of the territory, the order was apparently still given.
          Now imagine that this was not done, but it was what you propose i.e.

          help with equipment, food and
          medicines.

          What would happen now in the Crimea and Sevastopol? That's right, Donbass would be in Crimea now.

          Quote: gorge1945
          The leadership of Russia is to blame for everything that is happening in Ukraine now, the 23 of the year supported the Ukrainian economy with billions of loans, not seeing the zombies of the Ukrainian population,

          So do you propose to continue such a policy?
          1. +1
            3 February 2015 17: 55
            Quote: Normal
            What would happen now in the Crimea and Sevastopol? That's right, Donbass would be in Crimea now.

            Hmm, the word "Donbass" has already become a household word (
        4. +6
          3 February 2015 10: 28
          Quote: gorge1945
          think again
          this will lead to the fact that the US and NATO will instantly intervene in the conflict, they
          just waiting for it.

          But this, albeit hypothetical, possibility of the appearance of Russian troops is holding NATO back. As soon as everything is more or less settled down, we’ll get both bases and missile defense systems at hand.
          Quote: gorge1945
          If the US Congress decides to supply lethal weapons to Ukraine, we will be able to legally supply Novo Russia with our weapons,

          What is the law? By what law can we not openly supply DNR/LNR with weapons now? By what law will we be allowed to supply weapons after the American supplies to Kyiv?
          Quote: gorge1945
          So we got what we have for mediocre international politics.

          Here I agree completely.
          1. +1
            5 February 2015 09: 13
            Of course, there is no law banning the supply of weapons to Novorossia! But as soon as Russia openly supplies at least one batch of lethal weapons, instantly the LPR and the DPR will be recognized as terrorist organizations, and then even secretly supplying equipment will not be very legal. As soon as at least one platoon of our soldiers officially enters the Donbass, in the same instant Russia will be recognized as an aggressor by the country. What consequences will be of this, it’s already difficult to predict here, but it seems to me that it is already possible to give a damn about these consequences, it won’t get better anyway, and at least the death of Russian children, women and old people can be prevented.
        5. +1
          4 February 2015 20: 23
          do you want Russia to send troops

          as a military man with epaulettes (at least only on this site) must understand that the "troop" is only one side of the possible help for the fraternal people.
          There are many more possibilities to really influence the situation. It is from a military point of view.
          I will not list, as a sofa lieutenant colonel, I must "guess" ..
      2. +15
        3 February 2015 08: 42
        Quote: Finches
        Our leadership will continue to chew snot pretending that the outrage in the Donbas concerns us, but only as an internal conflict in Ukraine, tomorrow people will turn their back on us and the last! Yes, they will not turn to Poroshenko, but they will turn away from Russia ...


        You need to understand that humanitarian convoys, etc. - chewing snot?
        And in your opinion, to interfere in a country that has been hammered for the third decade that Russia is the main enemy, who sleeps and dreams of capturing Nenka and depriving Ukrainians of the opportunity to join the single family of European states, well, in short, "ALL IMAGINABLE AND UNIMAGINABLE BENEFIT". As soon as the Maidanites began to implement their hopes - Russia CAPTURES Crimea and starts a war in the South-East (this is what all the Ukrainian and Western media are broadcasting) - well, how can you not believe them all, they can't all lie. Constant hysterics that Russian troops are advancing, their valiant Nazis are destroying them in regiments, and they still climb in.
        And here you are accusing the government of chewing snot. In your opinion - do you need to confirm the media nonsense and get a real, popular war of Ukrainians against Russia? So you want us to trap the United States with all the ensuing consequences for the whole world? Do we need World War III, on Western conditions?
        1. +5
          3 February 2015 09: 27
          No, we need, as usual, for the enemy to stand against the walls of the Kremlin, then, then, we will start a fight with him on our terms!
          Understand the same at last, that the pragmatic West understands only decisiveness and strength, he perceives all other diplomacy and peacefulness as weakness! But the West will not fight with us now, because it understands that a full Tryndets will come to his quiet life - after all, Russia is not Libya! They even contact Iran piss ...!
          1. Andrejka
            0
            3 February 2015 13: 54
            Sorry, WEST-WEST, but the troops are being sent here to Ukraine, and the Slavs will fight and not the West! So you need to wait until the population of Ukraine is cooked in a mess of radicals, oligarchs, poverty of the population, rising prices, etc. - you need to wait for the boiling point when it begins to break the independence due to contradictions!
        2. +7
          3 February 2015 09: 47
          Quote: skeptic
          And in your opinion, to get into a country that has been hammered in for a third decade that Russia is the main enemy who is sleeping and sees how to capture Nenka
          But didn’t we get in when we decided to return the Crimea? What Donetsk and Lugansk here have less rights to self-determination, why did we recognize the Kiev junta and its pseudo-elections, but still have not recognized the choice of the people of New Russia? Already more than five thousand civilians have been killed, how many people have been wounded, crippled, millions of refugees, cities and villages have been destroyed, everything is on our border, and our relatives, neighbors, friends, acquaintances are being killed, Russians are being killed! What else was not monstrous in the Kiev junta? We cannot deliver air strikes against the positions of punishers who shoot at peaceful cities, but we continue to sell gas to their fascist government at a discount. We cannot recognize New Russia, but we are sending humanitarian convoys to the dying population ... Is this a great gas policy and brakes? Say and get a real, popular war of Ukrainians against Russiaand now what kind of war is going on? We would really get svidomites on the wort, would have already run the denunciations in the FSB to write to Bandera, and there is no need to scare the Third World, so we will get it sooner if we are shy of our rights and capabilities, we will lose time and initiative.
          1. +4
            3 February 2015 14: 35
            Those who agree to endure the humiliation of national shame in order to avoid war will ultimately receive both shame and war (c) Sir W. Churchill (on the Munich agreement of Chamberlain and Daladieu with Hitler)
          2. liberzonov.tryn
            0
            6 February 2015 01: 09
            I completely agree with Per se! Only I would call such a policy: "policy with an eye", which obviously assumes:
            - And how will we look from the outside?
            - And what will the world community say to this?
            - And how will they react to this in our country?
            And a lot more, but the main thing is that "whatever there is a war, we are for peace."
            But the war is going on and it has not stopped since 1914. It only seems to be different wars, different goals. And the only one goal is to destroy Russia as an independent state and destroy its people, which is its only defender. Now the last phase of this confrontation has come. It’s time for everyone to understand: It was the enemy who attacked us again! Only as always does everything with the wrong hands in the battle until he introduced his vanguard of Landsknecht-hirelings. Now there is a struggle for a strategic bridgehead -Ukraine. Rebelled against the junta Donbass like a bone in the throat of this whole new world order. But
        3. 0
          4 February 2015 20: 31
          hammered that Russia is the main enemy

          according to such a conclusion - the Soviet Union in 45 should not have finished off a fascist enemy in its den ...
          They also considered the Soviets as the main enemy and "defended European civilization" from the barbaric communists.
          All according to the laws of Goebbels propaganda.
          It is good that Stalin did not obey and "got into a trap ... with all the ensuing consequences for the whole world."
      3. Andrejka
        +1
        3 February 2015 13: 48
        Well, for starters, as I understand it, you are proposing to send Russian troops into the territory of Ukraine, where, thanks to ukroSMI, the population has been "zombified" for almost a year by the aggression of Russian troops, so don't you think that the introduction of troops will lead to a guerrilla war against the Russian Federation? Or do you think that there will be tanks with flowers?
    2. +7
      3 February 2015 08: 48
      But this is scary and incomprehensible.
      Indeed, in fact, it is very scary that this happened. Suddenly we found ourselves on opposite sides of the barricades. A whole multi-million people have turned into some kind of "zombie". And here neither friendship nor family ties play a role. How did this happen? Where does so much hatred and bile come from? Dialogue and any kind of compromise already seems impossible.
      I rarely go to the "censor", because the amount of negativity is not just off scale, but has no limit ... Here you are already tearing at the roof, you get embittered, and it seems like that unfortunate woman said - we will never be brothers.
      1. +1
        3 February 2015 10: 44
        Who, apart from friends, will tell ALL the truth? Even if it is impossible to serve with any sauce.
    3. 0
      3 February 2015 14: 29
      Quote: Konar
      But it is scary and incomprehensible

      What else does Barak Huseynovich need to calmly meet old age?
  4. +16
    3 February 2015 07: 37
    Everything goes to the fact that you still have to re-show the results of the Second World War. "Telling" does not reach ...
    1. +7
      3 February 2015 07: 52
      AND REWARE THE RESULTS OF COLD (HOW HER HER ALREADY CALLED THIRD).
  5. +25
    3 February 2015 07: 38
    I can say the same thing about some of my former friends from there ... We were together where sometimes they shoot. But right now we don’t communicate. Just because we don’t love traitors. We did not betray me. Our grandfathers betrayed. I betrayed the great one. Parents their betrayed, who worked in different regions of the country (USSR).
    Something terrible has happened to the Ukrainian people. It has already happened. And it will never be forgotten. Ukrainians have turned into Ivans (or whatever they call them in Ukrainian, Ivan) who do not remember their kinship...
    1. +2
      3 February 2015 11: 36
      Sold YOUR GREAT RUSSIAN SPIRIT for green papers and now we are to blame.
  6. +9
    3 February 2015 07: 42
    Yes, time has passed, during this period from the collapse of the USSR. Brainwashing was carried out with persistent stubbornness, otherwise the Maidan was not received.
    1. +12
      3 February 2015 08: 05
      Brainwashing was persistent
      This is exactly what you've noticed - I have the same - "Zombie" friends in Odessa - we, as usual, have completely lost the information war - 90% of Ukrainians hate Russians and Putin at the moment. How can this be fixed? I can't imagine. It can only be done through a trial of the Kyiv Junta and their other henchmen and an investigation of all their crimes - only then will they see the light, but for this we need to take Kyiv and arrest them all and judge them by the entire people! - there is no other way! And don't count on any international courts!
      1. 0
        3 February 2015 16: 51
        How to fix? Tanks!
    2. +4
      3 February 2015 08: 17
      Of course, they brainwashed them for a long time, right after WWII, but it was not at the same level as after perestroika, when they started talking about it directly.
      1. +7
        3 February 2015 11: 08
        Before, almost every year I went to Ukraine on vacation (Donetsk region).
        So already in 2005, the people of Ukraine were already firmly (politicized) zombied.
        On fishing, ordinary people talk about fishing, all sorts of stories and interesting stories tell. And in Ukraine, fishing talks only about politics, Russia and gas.
        It is true that he himself was present. And among friends of six friends, so to speak, two already strongly hated everything connected with the Russian world.
        And they always said "yaku on gylaku" kind of like humor, but there was no laugh in the eyes.
        Television works wonders with the people.
        1. +2
          5 February 2015 10: 36
          I have a friend who was born and studied in Ukraine. He is a citizen of Russia, a reasonable person. We worked together 5-6 years ago. Even then, when he was chatting with his friends on ICQ, he often argued with them on political topics. Because his comrades, people far from economics, constantly raised the issue of gas supplies and transit. Prices, like, are too high... the pipeline runs through our territory, we can block transit, we hold Russia by the balls. This is just on a mundane level. How it infuriated him... He told me that when he went on vacation, it almost came to a fight there, especially when they were sitting over a bottle.
  7. +6
    3 February 2015 07: 46
    Decathlon EN
    Comrade political officer. "For Military Merit" is a medal.

    I think now it’s not so important, it’s important that the recipient of this award is the DEFENDER of the Motherland, USSR, WINNER in that terrible war with by the fascists.
    1. +14
      3 February 2015 07: 58
      Yes, no, this is just what matters! If the awards of three grandfathers (mine and my wife) are stored in my safe, I know which order and which medal one of them received, when and for what. And there are not a lot of awards, but 21 (these are just military ones, not counting the anniversary ones). My grandchildren, not to mention my sons, will not confuse the order with a medal. There are no trifles in the history, moreover, in such a HISTORY !!! And the political officer should understand such issues, otherwise, what kind of political officer is he ?!
      1. +4
        3 February 2015 08: 12
        Honor and Glory to your near and dear ones, but you are too categorical. I am sure that all those who fought with the Nazis are worthy, brave people - EVERYTHING!
        And you do not admit that a person simply made a slip of the tongue, and not out of UNKNOWLEDGE, how the order differs from the medal, and WHAT specifically is his grandfather’s award?
        1. +5
          3 February 2015 08: 20
          May be. But, I am too anxious about the history of the country and the memory of my grandfathers. Therefore, I do not even allow reservations (especially on the part of a former military man). Moreover, the medal "For Military Merit" is one of the most so-called "military" awards and was considered very significant for a soldier.
    2. +1
      3 February 2015 13: 53
      But the matter is not in the person who received the award. But it is just the same if the political officer confuses the medals with the orders, what kind of tries is he .... political officer?
  8. +13
    3 February 2015 07: 50
    Thank you for your sincerity and relevance.
    In Moscow, and even among my friends, there is one lady "X" who wanted not Putin to win, but Mr. Prokhorov. “I like it,” she says, “when everything is in full swing in our country.”
    There are people who do not understand that even a scratch on the body can lead to death.
    It seems to me that you should not express your opinion (or rather, not even an opinion, but a play on words) if you are not sure that it will not harm others.
    1. +10
      3 February 2015 08: 05
      Quote: shishakova
      In Moscow, and even among my friends, there is one lady "X" who wanted not Putin to win, but Mr. Prokhorov. “I like it,” she says, “when everything is in full swing in our country.”

      Many people don't like Putin, and these many often vote for someone else not because they like this other person as a leader, but so that everyone understands: in our country, not everyone is unanimous in favor of Putin. There is no alternative to Putin in the country now: a real choice of ANOTHER leader is capable of rocking the country, it is better to let Putin stay. But Medvedev's government, in my opinion, has already gotten on everyone's nerves; it is simply unrealistic for this government to emerge from the current crisis without a radical increase in oil prices. What is needed now is a government similar to Primakov's government in 1998-99, and not the current liberals.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. +4
          3 February 2015 10: 31
          Quote: 70BSN
          Putin so far the only person who deserves his place

          Quote: 70BSN
          IN THE COUNTRY FULL SCRIPT

          Do not find contradictions in your statements?
          1. 0
            3 February 2015 14: 44
            And hello to you.
            No, I don’t find it because I'm talking about a person who is normal and trusts domestic politics to his friend Medvedev who does not understand what ..... And I also pointed out that it’s bad that he has a close circle of friends are not good .... Read those more carefully , and not you choose the moment of what you can complain about .....
        2. 0
          3 February 2015 11: 11
          And we all seem calm and even. Yamal
      2. +3
        3 February 2015 10: 52
        In our country, there is always no real choice besides what it is, but the authorities choose the one they want and they want poher for the population
  9. nvb
    nvb
    +11
    3 February 2015 07: 56
    And for me, they don’t even have to wash their brains. All of them, or almost all of them in the Soviet era were Natsik. It wasn’t very much in the 80s. Well, in the Soviet Army, there were a lot of jokes about Ukrainian sergeants. . You’ll come to any part, but I’ve seen a lot of them, almost all sergeants after training are Ukrainians. Because they can lay it down. Betrayal in their blood is still from Mazepa.
    1. +5
      3 February 2015 09: 25
      ... Because they can pawn. Betrayal in their blood is still from Mazepa.
      Significant amendment: not "can" but "love"!
    2. +2
      3 February 2015 11: 13
      And what funny jokes about Ukrainians. "I will not eat, but I will bite"
  10. 0
    3 February 2015 07: 56
    This political officer is not a military man. Military is for life, it is a state of mind. So, do not talk to him on military topics. Unfortunately, there are many of these.
    1. +10
      3 February 2015 08: 33
      the moderator works cool. I argued for 15 minutes, but I skipped 1,5 lines ... I would like to ask if this reflects my thoughts, if I want to publish "such"?
  11. +17
    3 February 2015 07: 59
    I work at a construction site. A lot of workers from Ukraine.
    There are some who are so stubborn that even while staying here, watching Russian TV, they claim that we have fascism, that we are robbing Ukraine, that our divisions are fighting there, that Americans true selfless friends, etc., etc.
    23 years of zombies is not a joke. It’s very hard to understand that you were deceived. It is very easy to blame someone for their troubles.
    1. +10
      3 February 2015 08: 21
      It’s very hard to understand that you were deceived
      It is very difficult to admit to being deceived. This is a certain assessment of the mental state that Ukrainians are afraid of like fire. I am sure that they understand what is happening, but they say what is now convenient. A character trait.
      Nobody wants to consider themselves a sucker.
    2. wanderer
      +9
      3 February 2015 08: 34
      Ukrainians are a very difficult nation, an envious nation ...
      All real and true features of a nation are manifested in the most difficult times.
      Here they are. It is a fact.
      1. +5
        3 February 2015 09: 01
        It is not for nothing that there is a popular saying: “When the crest was born, a Jew began to cry! Now it is fully manifested in such an extraordinary situation. For some reason, everyone owes them.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +6
      3 February 2015 08: 51
      Quote: armored optimist
      argue that it’s our fascism


      In concrete.
      1. +1
        3 February 2015 09: 26
        fascism has its own definition and crimes, for example, the basis of Ukrainian fascism, judging by the actions now in power.
        http://litrus.net/book/read/70957?p=8
        a reasonable answer to such statements - if in the Russian Federation fascism is in power, then in what way is it manifested.
    4. +7
      3 February 2015 08: 58
      Quote: armored optimist
      I work at a construction site. A lot of workers from Ukraine.
      There are some who are so stubborn that even while staying here, watching Russian TV, they claim that we have fascism, that we are robbing Ukraine, that our divisions are fighting there, that Americans true selfless friends, etc., etc.
      23 years of zombies is not a joke. It’s very hard to understand that you were deceived. It is very easy to blame someone for their troubles.


      I quote in full, because the most complete answer to those wishing to stick to Ukraine and "OPEN THEIR EYES".

      Only time and full feeling of all their mistakes and errors can change their point of view.

      For doubters, many who came even from the DPR and LPR live with us and curse us, because Russia got in and there is a war going on and they are forced to leave the chipped houses.
      1. +1
        3 February 2015 11: 34
        So it is !!!
        It will not be worse. It will be. lol
    5. +4
      3 February 2015 11: 20
      In search of the truth. Specially I began to watch through the Internet Ukrainian news and all kinds of programs (I understand the Ukrainian language) after a month of regular viewing (well, there in the evening after work and a little bit on the weekend)
      Damn, I don’t know where the truth is. Television is a huge force.
      Maybe not everything is true, which is shown by the news of Ukraine.
      Maybe really hail stands on the border in the Rostov region. and naughty where necessary ah?
      PS. and if you look, let’s say a year or a beer. Oh I don’t know, I don’t know.
      As they say: It will not be worse. It will be.
      1. 0
        3 February 2015 14: 22
        So you have doubts ... Can you imagine what happens in the non-stop, when 24 hours a day brainwash anti-Russian propaganda? A whole generation has grown up on this (it is probably already lost). Cognitive dissonance arises, the closest and kin people, to become the worst enemy. Nonsense.
        They will say, but nothing like that, they have always been like that ... Not true. This was neither in the USSR, nor in the Republic of Ingushetia (with the exception of the western regions, but those all their lives either under the Poles, then under the Hungarians, in short, the bandera does not count). Most have roots from there and many relatives in Ukraine (I myself am a quarter crest, and friends, acquaintances and even more. And frankly, I never shared and did not even draw the national border between Ukrainian and Russian).
        Nevertheless, with regard to the media, we must try to filter the information flowing into our ears. Personally, I am biased towards what I see on domestic TV and other media. Not to mention Ukrainian zombies ...
        An indicator of the chosen position (while not supporting the current regime) for me is our common suffering and bloodshed by millions of victims - history. How can one deny this? Only a traitor is capable of this.
      2. 0
        5 February 2015 16: 25
        Quote: Kondraty Kakiy
        Internet Ukrainian news and all kinds of programs (I understand the Ukrainian language) after a month of regular viewing

        Our cable operator has launched digital channels for testing, among them Lithuanian, Ukrainian, as for Lithuanian, they showed a film about the recently "liberated" Slavyansk in Russian, even without Lithuanian subtitles, the question is, for whom? As for Ukrainian... well, I don't know, firstly, listening to the riverman (press secretary) of the ATO, this was before the "Cheburashkas", willy-nilly, pride arose for our army, "Armata", S-350 beauty, about the great ideological victory in the form of two minutes of screen on Nevsky Prospekt (to which the Hyper-Berkut subsequently responded with several screens for the whole day in Kyiv) they talked for a month, the running line was touching, Putin's idiot box did not think of this: "coal in Ukraine remains for 20..17.. and then more days" - well, pure counter-propaganda good, the fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces had no problems before Ilovaisk, well, that's okay, but the report from the school in Sloviansk certainly killed me, I'm too lazy to look for it, there was a film from the late 60s about the occupation, of the famous actors Kalyagin plays a cowardly teacher, there an SS man comes to class and says "you may not like us... obey... and so on, so in the report an officer of the Ukrainian Armed Forces or the National Guard of the same build, also bald, only in "butane", and not in SS casual wear, says the same thing to children from Sloviansk am I don’t know, after such propaganda steps, if I were a resident of Ukraine I would like to get weapons and go to the forest! So, that’s not the point, either there was already rot, or something was being poured into the water pipes of many cities ... but I think that is the first.
  12. +6
    3 February 2015 08: 04
    Well, yes, another state. With its own desires, its own understanding of the vector of movement. Only we considered this state almost a part of ours. We looked after it in every possible way, fed it, protected it from everything. Trying not to notice that they were trying to break away from us, to get rid of us. Well, and then it happened. The young state broke free and started acting up. Well, like a first-year student who just broke away from his mother's care to go to the dorm. Someone went crazy and went to school. And someone went on a bender and didn't come out of it. In this case, they screwed up so much on the bender that they didn't even want to get dirty if they asked to go back. And they will definitely ask when the creditors put pressure on them and they really want to eat.
    1. +1
      3 February 2015 09: 11
      Quote: Zomanus
      Only we considered this state almost a part of our own. In every possible way they patronized, fed, protected from everyone.


      Oddly enough, this is most likely the reason. This can be seen, even in small - in the family. Nothing is more appreciated than what you get "for free". This is how a person is made.
      And in Ukraine, all the media shouted that it was she who was a "WIRE", but they did not spread that everything that was in the USSR was being poured there - as a result, they imagined themselves to be a navel, and therefore believed in their exclusiveness. Naturally, with the assistance of the West, these manias were unleashed. It is enough just to insert the "ENEMY", that would be on whom to blame, any shortcomings and we got what we have.
  13. +11
    3 February 2015 08: 04
    The author accurately noticed. The same events (disputes about who feeds whom) took place during my studies at the school, even it came to fights unfortunately .... then the truth was put up, of course. It was very sad in 1990 to hear that their coal is coalier than ours in Kuzbass, the water is cooler than in Baikal and the people are more populous than in Siberia. I don’t deceive a drop, for some reason it crashed into my memory .... Some of the comrades willows in Kiev and Odessa also remained, they naturally have a negative attitude towards us, and those who are currently serving in Russia on the contrary and at what are not common among themselves tsya ... Parents living in the Ukraine, who we are, my children find accomplices ..... That's it.
  14. +2
    3 February 2015 08: 08
    The remaining Ukraine, which apart from Donbass, is comparable to the mankurt from the famous work of Ch.Aitmatov. They had their brains altered by the "brilliant specialists" in the mattress brainwashing from the United States.
  15. +14
    3 February 2015 08: 09
    Quote: armored optimist
    I work at a construction site. A lot of workers from Ukraine.
    There are some who are so stubborn that even while staying here, watching Russian TV, they claim that we have fascism, that we are robbing Ukraine, that our divisions are fighting there, that Americans true selfless friends, etc., etc.
    23 years of zombies is not a joke. It’s very hard to understand that you were deceived. It is very easy to blame someone for their troubles.

    Then you deserve workers like these...we had one like that at work...they took him around the corner at the plant and said...if you bark any more they simply won't find you later...like he went home..))) That's how you should treat people like that!!!
  16. The comment was deleted.
  17. +8
    3 February 2015 08: 21
    When a friend stands up with arms against each other, brother against brother - this is called a civil war, and its essence is a split in society, which has been brewing for a long time. But someone who was interested in weakening Ukraine and making it a puppet had been quietly, cautiously and skillfully preparing this split for 23 years. The same incident could happen in our country. Slightly failed, the fish got off the hook and now an angry fisherman in wild rage whips the rod on the water! It’s clear who the fisherman is.
    1. 0
      3 February 2015 13: 59
      Civil ... and fratricidal, slightly different events!
  18. 0
    3 February 2015 08: 22
    It was clear that this people was not fraternal. There were “brothers Bulgarians who fought against us in all wars. It’s sickening to look at the aching women in Donbass, which our correspondents show endlessly. But in 91 they all voted for independence. And we had to let this independence be drunk to the end. They say, 300 yards were given for what? They decided to buy love? And they hate us and consider us fools. How long can these convoys drive. They themselves have complete collapse and no less confusion in their heads. They themselves are running away from the war on both sides.
    1. +4
      3 February 2015 09: 24
      Quote: bydanoff.val
      It’s sick to look at the aching women in the Donbass, which our correspondents show endlessly. But they are in 91g. all voted for independence.

      You bent it ... The question was resolved without their participation by three (m) blows in the Bialowieza forest. I myself am from one republic of the USSR, and I affirm that no one was interested in the opinion of a simple person.
      1. nvb
        nvb
        +3
        3 February 2015 10: 22
        They were interested, before that there was a referendum and the majority didn’t want to break up, but these politicians didn’t give a damn about the opinion of the people;
        1. +2
          3 February 2015 10: 28
          I'm talking about this and say that spit on opinion. And the collapse did not happen by will, but contrary.
      2. raven8888
        +8
        3 February 2015 11: 09
        bydanoff.val RU Today, 08:22
        ... But they are in 91g. everyone voted for independence ...

        Karabanov (2) SU Today, 09:24
        ... The issue was resolved without their participation ...


        At a referendum on Ukraine’s independence in the fall of 91, voted for independence
        Donetsk region-83%
        Lugansk region-83%
        Crimean ASSR-55%

        And this WITHOUT THEIR PARTICIPATION ?!
        These are the most loyal regions. The rest of your trash. Kiev-93 (95)%
        But in the whole country, 90% wanted freedom. Here is the opinion of a simple person!
        1. +2
          3 February 2015 11: 26
          I draw your attention to the referendum that you indicated was held on December 1, 1991, after the disappointment of the August failure of the State Emergency Committee and a week before the Bialowieza booze. And in the legality and methodology of counting the votes of yesterday's former secretaries tearing to power, I strongly doubt it.
          All-Union referendum on the preservation of the USSR March 17, 1991 showed results for - 77.85% (for the country), and 70,2% in Ukraine.
    2. The comment was deleted.
      1. 0
        3 February 2015 14: 01
        Yeah, especially with NATO they now have a penny))) !!
  19. +10
    3 February 2015 08: 24
    If you drink vinegar every day and say "it's SWEET", then in ten years it will be like that.
    "sweet" in the mouth. If you say, as you have been doing in Ukraine for the last 15-20 years, that Russia is to blame for all their (Ukrainian) troubles, then we will get an enemy of Russia. You don't even have to go to "granny" about this.
    What to do???? It seems to me that we should just spit on it and help those who consider us NOT ENEMIES. The same Donetsk and Lugansk. Help them to gain a foothold and defend their small Motherland. The rest of Ukraine????? Let it fall apart, well, that's where it belongs. We need to be simpler and the people will come around. Like in Germany after 45. Before, they considered us enemies, but after May 9, the people began to see the light. Time heals only such wounds, only time. The main thing is that NATO troops are not there. The rest - we will break through. The abscess must ripen and burst. Any doctor knows this.
  20. +3
    3 February 2015 08: 40
    Mongol, reading such a note, I come to the conclusion that you never said the main thing.
    What I wanted to say.
    If it dawned on you after the events in Odessa ... A flag in your hand.
    But what to do for those who knew what could end in Ukraine? (not "in Ukraine", "in the ass" can only be)
    Knew and waited.
    How am I, for example? wassat
  21. +5
    3 February 2015 08: 48
    "Ah, it's not hard to deceive me, I'm happy to deceive myself" (c) Not everything is so simple, propaganda does not fall on empty space. It seems that our country is a Paradise with jelly banks. We have more than enough difficulties, complications, jambs, oligarchs, corruption, lawlessness and so on, and on the other hand, there is gold-plated Europe and when you do not live there, but have only been on an excursion to Prague, skied in the Alps, then it seems that everything is a model. However, everything is expressed in only one envious and hackneyed phrase - people live ... You are promised that we will live the same way, but there is not enough brains, education to worry about the simplest question - how? However, within the country, no one thinks, blind faith - I will definitely be lucky. The degradation of society is inevitable under a capitalist system - this is the main reason for the controllability of the masses. A thinking person is replaced by a person who eats and shits, pardon me.
    1. 0
      3 February 2015 09: 44
      Quote: Azzi
      It seems that our country is Paradise with jelly shores. We have enough difficulties, difficulties, stocks, oligarchs, corruption, lawlessness and other things

      Yeah, a quiet clearing with swans ... The Russian and Ukrainian officials are no different from each other, except for individual feeders. And so, this is generally a separate caste existing simultaneously from the people and at their expense.
      Quote: Azzi
      The degradation of society is inevitable with the cap. the structure is the main reason for the controllability of the masses. A thinking man is replaced by a man who is eating and crushing, my pardon.

      But a thinking person is not profitable for their bureaucrats, not ours. And this is indicative of modern Russian education and the formation of pseudo-values ​​in their heads.
      In addition to frenzied and pathos patriotism with St. George ribbons, a culture is also needed, in the heads of which many simply do not.
    2. +1
      3 February 2015 09: 52
      My brother went to live in England, at first he sang such laudatory odes to the old woman. And after 8 years, he returned home, to his homeland, and he was scared glad, and not what kind of England is needed for hell.
      Koda settled down and understood the rotten essence.
  22. 0
    3 February 2015 09: 00
    Quote: Konar
    But this is scary and incomprehensible.


    I will support, but with the amendment, which was not comprehensible from the beginning. But now it has become not only natural, but also understandable. Ukrainians generally digest the information that is not just offered to them, but aggressively imposed on them. Therefore, now it is not surprising that many who had relatives in Ukraine no longer even want to talk to them on the phone. Although there are incidents. For several months Ukrainians who have been hailing diligently, with pressure from the Russians, call and in a gentle, quiet voice say: "Can we come to you for a while, otherwise they can take their son into the army, etc. How to treat such people?"
    1. +1
      3 February 2015 11: 00
      Send, specifically and on. Let scoop up with a full spoon all that has been welded!
  23. +2
    3 February 2015 09: 10
    Quote: Konar
    My father's friends at work came a long time ago from Kramatorsk for distribution and have been living in Nsk for 40 years. So, they can’t even talk on the phone with their cousins ​​and brothers who remained in Kramatorsk, because they mother their Putin agents and hang up. I can’t even feel what they feel.
    But this is scary and incomprehensible.

    It seems that being in the occupation under the Hoh-Ukroarmia, it would be very dangerous to conduct intimate conversations with relatives from Russia. I am sure that wiretapping works with a bang, and those who are suspected of lack of loyalty can immediately suffer. After all, the ideological successor of the Gestapo - the SBU is not asleep ...
  24. +1
    3 February 2015 09: 14
    Well, what can I say failure on ideological work over the past 25 years has been in person, although to be honest, my dad told me yesterday that they were talking when they went to Kharkiv in 86 to go to a wedding, then there were sharp jokes about her, an unreasonable Mordvina, and so on, despite all the dad’s sitting yesterday and talking, it’s necessary to collect relatives in Kharkov, otherwise they’ll row the men, we’ll feel sorry for them, but I think we’re compassionate people, we forgive everything ...
    And all the same, it’s a mystery to me how they became so zombie, and how the veterans live there, not in the Western part, in the same Kiev ...
  25. +3
    3 February 2015 09: 33
    Yes, it's very difficult to admit that you were fucked as a kid. I have direct relatives in Kiev. The older brother is still a normal tanker. But the nephew is a pipe case. I just want to give the sub-caliber on the tower. And he doesn't want to perceive anything. In response, only stupid - "kill your Putin"
  26. +3
    3 February 2015 10: 00
    My grandfather for Japan was introduced to the order. As a result, they gave two medals: for courage and for military merits.
    How can a graduate of the VVUZ mix up?
    A small discrepancy raises great doubts. Okay - we'll figure it out on the forum, and realize that this is just a mistake.
    And the Svidomites? The howling will start immediately: the Russians are being deceived, I'm a Nazi faceYou are lying to yourself.
    More careful, Comrade Mongol.
  27. +2
    3 February 2015 10: 17
    Yes, it's an ass. And unfortunately in Donetsk too. Fighting probably for a just cause is the lot of those "whose profession is to defend their homeland" and "those who are for ...". Somewhere in the Internet there was an article like "If tomorrow is war." So-so, liberal, but the question is asked straight - will you send your son. Mine serves, conscript, Strategic Missile Forces. He won't touch him yet ... I'll go myself, but he ... I don't want to think. But then to fight and die is already near. And dill ... There are a lot of them in Donetsk. We have arrived full. They were put on us. Now we are the getaway point. We remembered our relatives, 7th water on jelly, etc. Works in our department. Looks like a normal guy, but ... He's here, not there. And he is ready to say to give in the face to that grandfather who asked his wife "Why not there." Something like this. Normal, worries about his native Lugansk, but ... "In contact" and from Russia. It's about traitors, etc. Now he is looking for an apartment for friends who have not yet run away. The guys are in a hurry - Zakharchenko is preparing a mobilization ... This is reality. I tell my colleagues, look, they have where to run - we anyway - nowhere.
  28. 0
    3 February 2015 10: 17
    Quote: diz1975
    The deputy politician called the famous and worthy medal the order. Maybe he was wrong

    Vasily Terkin: 7. About the award
    - No guys, I'm not proud.
    Without making a distance
    So I say: why do I need an order?
    I agree to the medal. soldier
  29. m11
    +1
    3 February 2015 10: 19
    Quote: skeptic
    Quote: Finches
    Our leadership will continue to chew snot pretending that the outrage in the Donbas concerns us, but only as an internal conflict in Ukraine, tomorrow people will turn their back on us and the last! Yes, they will not turn to Poroshenko, but they will turn away from Russia ...


    You need to understand that humanitarian convoys, etc. - chewing snot?
    And in your opinion, to interfere in a country that has been hammered for the third decade that Russia is the main enemy, who sleeps and dreams of capturing Nenka and depriving Ukrainians of the opportunity to join the single family of European states, well, in short, "ALL IMAGINABLE AND UNIMAGINABLE BENEFIT". As soon as the Maidanites began to implement their hopes - Russia CAPTURES Crimea and starts a war in the South-East (this is what all the Ukrainian and Western media are broadcasting) - well, how can you not believe them all, they can't all lie. Constant hysterics that Russian troops are advancing, their valiant Nazis are destroying them in regiments, and they still climb in.
    And here you are accusing the government of chewing snot. In your opinion - do you need to confirm the media nonsense and get a real, popular war of Ukrainians against Russia? So you want us to trap the United States with all the ensuing consequences for the whole world? Do we need World War III, on Western conditions?

    I fully support... The US is already openly declaring that they are not going to fight Russia themselves, they will do it with the help of others, supplying weapons... and at the same time they will get rid of their protégés...
  30. +4
    3 February 2015 10: 20
    Another "correct article". To confuse a medal with an order? And this is a professional military man? A small lie gives rise to big suspicions. And on what Internet did the correct boy find the order for the award? A link to the Internet is like "British scientists have proven". In short - the author gets a solid 2.
  31. +1
    3 February 2015 10: 40
    Quote: bydanoff.val
    It was clear that this people was not fraternal. There were "brothers Bulgarians who fought against us in all wars. It is sickening to look at the aching women in Donbass, who demon of the end show our correspondents. But they are in 91. all voted for independence. And it was necessary to give to drink this independence to the end. They claim that they gave 300 yards for what? Decided to buy love? And they hate us and consider us fools. How much can these convoys be driven. They themselves have a complete collapse and no less than a mess in their heads. They themselves are fleeing the war on both sides.


    One question: who is the demon of the end? am laughing
  32. 0
    3 February 2015 10: 54
    That’s when Ukrainians begin to lead each other to the Gilyak, then there will be order
  33. +1
    3 February 2015 11: 03
    shitty professional selection in a good school was. Yes, and in other politukh. It is not in vain that among the punishers and their untalented propagandists there are so many products of politicheses.
  34. The comment was deleted.
  35. 0
    3 February 2015 11: 15
    Quote: Finches
    No, we need, as usual, for the enemy to stand against the walls of the Kremlin, then, then, we will start a fight with him on our terms!
    Understand the same at last, that the pragmatic West understands only decisiveness and strength, he perceives all other diplomacy and peacefulness as weakness! But the West will not fight with us now, because it understands that a full Tryndets will come to his quiet life - after all, Russia is not Libya! They even contact Iran piss ...!

    Conclusion - to land an landing immediately in Washington, Berlin, Brussels. Why do we have to fight with Ukraine? So that half of them surrendered to us? And the second half began to hate even more?
  36. +1
    3 February 2015 11: 26
    Yes, it so happened that not even young people raised by the fathers of the nation, "Ukraine is not Russia," but older people seem to have gone crazy. I was lucky - I have no one from the ruins. I can't imagine how I would talk to them, how I would look into their eyes. But what am I, how would THEY look into the eyes of their grandfathers and great-grandfathers if they stood up? What words would they say? And when that, I'm sure, will have to. You have to pay for everything you did. And how scary and pitiful it will be if your children or grandchildren pay for you!
  37. +3
    3 February 2015 11: 43
    Unfortunately, there are many such as friends of a respected author. But they are a drop in the ocean. Look at the results of referenda in the Donbass, and not at the private opinions of individuals. The referendums clearly showed that the absolute majority is for Russia. In other areas, the figure is lower, but from Kharkov to Odessa, most of the population is pro-Russian, not pro-Western. Here in Nikolaev yesterday the SBU took away the deputy of a regional council who declared that Nikolaev was preparing to meet Russian tanks. Yes, I am ashamed to admit - they frightened us, we lowered our heads, but clenched our fists. But we will avenge everything, be sure to avenge.
  38. +1
    3 February 2015 12: 06
    I started to read the comments and went nuts. Colleagues, why are you clung to the medal? The article is correct and necessary. Thanks to Mongol. I am more than sure that some of the commentators did not even receive the badge "Excellent Worker of the Soviet Army".
  39. Mongol
    +5
    3 February 2015 12: 11
    Hi friends. thanks for the feedback. I am not the daughter of an officer and not even a son. Muza Alekseevna, Colonel Katsyuk, the head of the Vorobyov school named Bordeur, the legendary Major Poleschenko (if he reads), huts on Odessa, self-propelled vehicles through Bakhmutka, etc. Who studied at DVVPU them. Army General Epishev knows about these personalities and places. This is not in the directories.
    I have not served for more than 20 years, so about the medal order, well, I'm sorry, the details are annoying, I agree. There are no excuses. And the ending when reading now is painfully pathetic. About the Internet - naturally in archival data to which access is now open, incl. Central Archive of Moscow Region in Podolsk.
    About the 95th year of release is not true, I did not write this anywhere - "from the last Soviet issues"I quote myself.
    Published for the first time, do not blame me. All for now, you need to work. Good luck to everyone and thank you.
    1. +2
      3 February 2015 12: 57
      Where does the homeland begin?
      From the picture in your letter,
      With good and faithful comrades,
      Living in a neighboring yard.

      Or maybe it starts
      From the song that our mother sang to us.
      Since in any tests
      We do not take anyone away.

      Where does the homeland begin?
      From the treasured bench at the gate.
      With the same birch tree in the field,
      Under the wind bending, growing.

      Or maybe it starts
      Since the spring funeral of the starling
      And from this road country,
      Which you can not see the end.

      Where does the homeland begin?
      From the burning windows in the distance,
      From the old paternal budenovki,
      That somewhere in the closet we found.

      Or maybe it starts
      From the clatter of car wheels
      And with an oath, which in his youth
      You brought it to your heart.
      What does the homeland begin with? ..

      Poems by M. Matusovsky
      Quote: Mongol
      I have not served for more than 20 years, so about the medal, well, I'm sorry, the details are annoying, I agree. There are no excuses. Yes, and the ending when reading now is painfully pathetic

      Pathetic? No . Your son now knows the value of the medal. The five-year-old granddaughter, taking the steel "Red Star" into her hands, said: "How heavy!" I am sure my grandchildren will know the price of military labor and Victory. I am doing my best.
      And what got you into the order-medal was that your fellow students forgot so quickly what they were supposed to teach in the political school. Commissars didn't work out. But it's not only your misfortune. Don't take it personally, but our political officer was called "shoelaces". So, fellow students-"shoelaces".
      1. +1
        3 February 2015 16: 34
        Alaverba, Mongol!

        Among the faded candles and evening prayers,
        Among the military trophies and peaceful fires,
        Lived book children who did not know the battles,
        Disheartened by her petty catastrophes.

        Children are always annoyed by their age and life,
        And we fought to abrasions, to mortal insults,
        But the clothes were patched to our mother on time,
        We swallowed the books, getting drunk from the lines.

        Lipli hair to us on sweating foreheads,
        And sucked under the spoon sweetly from the phrases.
        And the smell of struggle circled our heads,
        From the pages of yellowed flying to us.

        And we who didn’t know wars tried to comprehend
        For a warlike cry they took the howl
        The secret of the word "order", the appointment of boundaries,
        The meaning of the attack and the clash of war chariots.


        And in the boiling cauldrons of previous wars and unrest
        So much food for our little brains
        We are on the role of traitors, cowards, Judas
        In their children's games, they assigned their enemies.


        And the villain was not allowed to cool,
        And they promised to love the most beautiful ladies,
        And having calmed friends and loving neighbors,
        We in the role of heroes introduced themselves.

        Only dreams cannot be run away for good
        A short century of fun, so much pain around.
        Try to squeeze the palms of the dead
        And take the weapons out of their worn hands.

        Test while holding a still warm sword
        And wearing armor, how much, how much ?!
        Experience who you are - a coward or chosen one of fate,
        And taste the real fight.

        And when a wounded friend collapses nearby
        And over the first loss you'll make out, grieving,
        And when you suddenly have no skin
        Because they killed him, not you.

        You will understand that you recognized, distinguished, found
        He took a grin - it’s a grin of death,
        Lies and evil, look how rude their faces are
        And always behind the crow and coffins.


        If you didn’t eat meat from a knife
        If the arms are folded, watched from above,
        But he didn’t enter the fight with the scoundrel, with the executioner,
        So in life you have nothing to do with anything.

        If the path is cut through with my father’s sword,
        You are wound with salty tears,
        If in a hot fight I experienced that how much,
        So you read the right books as a child.


        If the grandfathers of Ukraine
        did not pass on to their children / grandchildren the Pain of Loss and Pride of Victory of all the peoples of the USSR in the Great Patriotic War,
        if you didn’t instill in your children / grandchildren, if not love, then at least respect and reverence for your brothers in arms,
        they didn’t give it on time in the face, and literally, after hearing from them for the first time "m..lyaku na g..lyakka" or "glory to bendera" ..........

        That nederta now brings down on zomboyaschik, on propaganda, and other "irresistible force".

        Let them be "proud of themselves" - Glory to the grandfathers of the Belarusian Ukrainian SSR, who raised two generations of moral freaks, free from the conscience of the country of traitors of Mazepa!
        1. 0
          3 February 2015 17: 55
          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MtG5I-ymgJM

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3exeyV1upNE

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_iziCv48YA

          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6AZjSt9A1c
        2. +1
          3 February 2015 21: 59
          If the path is cut through with my father’s sword,
          You are wound with salty tears,
          If in a hot fight I experienced that how much,
          So you read the right books as a child.

          ballad of struggle.

        3. +1
          4 February 2015 15: 18
          I agree with every word. I have a lot of maternal relatives in the Lugansk region. We began to talk more often we are scared for them. But they think weird, maybe they’ll resolve themselves. But it’s not the same when Ukraine separated, our parents quarreled for 3 years was a nightmare .
  40. +1
    3 February 2015 12: 17
    So, all this continues to this day, when "friendly" ammunition is already flying on their heads.
    Well, these "friends" are from "ideological", but this one, what moved? How much is she "ideological" and "svidomo"?
    1. +1
      3 February 2015 15: 04
      And this is another "cook" ...
    2. 0
      4 February 2015 22: 36
      The pelotka was moving.
    3. REGULUS
      0
      5 February 2015 10: 43
      Such should be allowed in a "circle" ... Sorry hi
  41. -1
    3 February 2015 13: 35
    Oh guys! We have already started dancing on other people's bones! Let’s cool down! Why does the author who MONGOL giggles silently? Author, in the studio, pzhlst!
  42. +3
    3 February 2015 13: 44
    And for which they got me cons))), I just said the difference between the medal and the order !!!
    1. +1
      3 February 2015 14: 01
      For lack of tact, colleague!
      1. +2
        3 February 2015 14: 42
        What tact))), I just said that the order is higher in rank than a medal))) !!! Whom have I offended, or can I misunderstand something))? Explain !!!!
  43. +1
    3 February 2015 14: 04
    Quote: diz1975
    For those who do not understand, I suggest.
    The article says that:
    "presentation to the order of one artillery sergeant, the commander of a gun crew, dated February 1943 (Stalingrad). Sergeant Smirnov (real name) received his well-deserved order" For Military Merit "only in 1985"
    Question: how can one submit to an order which has not yet been established? (or the author of the article called the order a medal?)

    The deputy politician does not name to which order Smirnov was presented. It never occurred to anyone that they represented Smirnov to some order, but were awarded a medal much later? This often happened in war.
  44. +1
    3 February 2015 14: 44
    It seems that the morons minus even without reading the article, but begin to read immediately from the comments !!!!
  45. The comment was deleted.
  46. SAVA555.IVANOV
    0
    4 February 2015 02: 09
    Yes, uv. the author, some became unrecognizable (politically), but basically these are the same people, otherwise that referendum would not have passed at all, of course not warriors, and capitalism has eaten into its skin all the time in my head "work work" and there is no time to call friends and say thank you that they are there is.
    Here I am looking at the site http://pomoshch-bezhentsam.ru/, my soul is bleeding, you are with us, you are helping us, I know for sure that it is not sweet for you yourselves, but you are with us just as we are with you because one society unites everyone. And it is not the "ukraine" who are to blame, but the Baptists and other obscurantists who have been processing people in Ukraine for 23 years, but despite all these efforts, we are still drawn to each other.
  47. +2
    4 February 2015 17: 50
    Quote: svd-xnumx
    Question: how can one submit to an order which has not yet been established? (or the author of the article called the order a medal?)
    But it doesn’t say there that they presented it in 1943 specifically for this award; it was possible that they presented it for another one, but they gave it in 1985 “For Military Merit”.

    In 1985, many front-line soldiers were presented with awards, to which they were presented during the Second World War, but for some reason (most often due to injury and subsequent referral to another unit) did not receive it at the front. They just handed exactly those awards to which they were presented during the war years. So my grandfather in 1985 received the Order of the Battle Red Banner for 1943.
    Each award, especially the military one, has a clear statute for which it is issued. And after the approval of the submission of the immediate commander, nothing changes. Maybe for the level of the Hero, orders of Lenin, Kutuzov, Ushakov, etc. something was different, but these awards are not for ordinary people (except for the Hero and Lenin).
    A plus article.
    I also graduated from a military school (in 1985) and also encountered such a strange bundle of my classmates. So far, I just stopped talking to such people. I don’t know what to do next, yet it’s not easy to cross out 30 years of friendship.
  48. 0
    4 February 2015 19: 53
    Mongol, a real political instructor! I put everything on the shelves! We need to end with Ukraine! Mockaly all "gobbled up" or what?
  49. 0
    4 February 2015 20: 41
    Quote: Karabanov
    we will never be brothers

    it seems that we also prodied the Soviet Union on the basis of the same lullaby - "all people are brothers."
    Softened like ...!
    They forgot the testament of Comrade Stalin that the struggle will only increase with the strengthening of the country.
  50. 0
    5 February 2015 07: 59
    In fact, the problem sits much deeper than we can imagine. The problem is in ourselves, of all. These former guys are now there, with a different mentality, they think they don’t understand that .. of course there are holy things that can never be betrayed. But on the attitude to things: you don’t have to go far: former friends who left the region to go anywhere, within of his country ... after a few years, it turns out that finding a common language is simply not possible. Why? Yes, because a person often loves to forget his past, he wants to disown him sooner. And this is a very frequent occurrence. Apparently, he is still accumulating dissatisfaction with life, getting tired, everyone is tired and tired of everything. It’s not easy to live happy and few people succeed.
  51. +1
    5 February 2015 10: 37
    I have a medal "For Military Merit" for Afghanistan, and I'm proud of it!
  52. -2
    5 February 2015 10: 53
    Dear Mongolian author! The article is a minus, I read it, the title is loud, but in fact it’s some kind of mess + memories of youth No. , I recognize the political officer’s handwriting soldier
  53. 0
    5 February 2015 11: 16
    Quote: igorka357
    How does it not change ...)))? The order will be higher in rank !!!

    Hey, you limited)))) narrow-minded idiots....it's okay to give me a minus because I wrote the difference between a medal and an order....there are simply no words))))) and I wanted to ban you...I've been reading VO for two years without registering and I'll be reading it for another hundred years!!!
  54. 0
    5 February 2015 12: 13
    Quote: dchegrinec
    There are sacred things that must never be betrayed.


    So.
    It's good that we know the history of our country. But Kulikovo Field and Borodino are “things of days gone by, legends of deep antiquity.”
    And the Great Patriotic War is “here and now.” Our grandfathers are leaving, but they lived with us, loved us, raised us...........
    And we are obliged to remember and explain to our descendants that they fought and died for us, for all of us. Physically, there would be neither us nor our children if it were not for our heroic grandfathers!
    And those who can betray this memory are no longer people - moral ur..dy! (censorship does not let them through!)

    Betraying grandfathers like these is an outrageous meanness!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8VHmQnKWgU
  55. +1
    5 February 2015 13: 42
    I wanted to briefly outline the topic “medal-order”
    any medal of the Great Patriotic War for us descendants of heroes is an Order.
  56. NBN
    0
    5 February 2015 14: 00
    As far as I remember, in 1985, those awarded the "For Military Merit" medal during the Great Patriotic War were nominated for the "Patriotic War" order (forgive me, I don't remember what degree). My grandfather called this order a ceremonial one. He considered his only "For Military Merit" medal to be his real award. He also had about five jubilee ones, but I don't remember him with them.
    Perhaps the article simply overlaps two pieces of information. This is not the point of the article.
    I believe that it is time for us to clearly and firmly define our position in front of Svidomo’s relatives and familiar friends from Ukraine.
  57. +2
    5 February 2015 14: 27
    The dispute is essentially, it is very important to decide whether it is a medal or an order? Well, I was mistaken, but this is a former military man, it happens. And what is happening in Donbass is secondary, nonsense in general. And the mistake is very serious, it crossed out everything that was written in the article. Holy shit! Shall we jump?
  58. SAVA555.IVANOV
    0
    5 February 2015 15: 25
    Not to the author. By the way, about Russians shouting about their patriotism on VO, on the VO Forum the topic "Where to send the family?" statistics 227 views and only two pieces of advice. So don't stutter about the Donetsk and others, dear commentators. You have changed no less.
  59. 0
    5 February 2015 15: 41
    “The debates weren’t heated, we, who are from the RSFSR, didn’t particularly object, of course, the breadbasket, yes.”


    And in vain!
  60. 0
    5 February 2015 22: 10
    What the hell difference does it make. An order, a medal, couch potatoes, motherfuckers... formal. informal. What's the article about? About the order? The wise men are picking on it. What did the grandfather earn on the Tashkent front? No, we should be happy for him...
    "for a military man"... etc. one such honestly earned medal is worth a jubilee iconostasis on the belly of some uniform-wearing ass-kisser
  61. 0
    6 February 2015 00: 58
    When the Lord God wants to punish a person, He deprives him of his reason..... Sometimes entire states fall under this....
  62. 0
    6 February 2015 09: 49
    Musical and patriotic addition