Recognition PNS is a mistake of Moscow. News from the Libyan front

Recognition PNS is a mistake of Moscow. News from the Libyan front Moscow’s recognition of the Libyan Transitional National Council, which took place on September 1, is a big, gross mistake of the Russian authorities. And the matter is not in Gaddafi himself, whether he is bad or good, it doesn’t matter, the main thing is the principle itself. The Russian Federation recognized the power of people who betrayed their homeland on the order of London, Paris and Washington. Those who led their country to civil war and plunged a fully prosperous Libyan state into the abyss of bloody war, bombardment of Western air forces and the death of thousands of people. The consequences of their actions are generally difficult to predict, given the factor that the Islamists are the main strike force of the PNS, current events are far from the final.


There are other reasons confirming the fact of the error of Moscow. Libyan rebels are artificially created by the Western world and completely independent political force. This is very obvious. The West has provided the most powerful information, political support, supplied weapon, ammunition, ammunition, provided his instructors, assisted in planning operations, helped his Air Force and Navy. In the end, seeing the low effectiveness of the actions of the rebel forces, even conducted an operation to capture Tripoli. Traitors were used in the army of Gaddafi, the special forces of Western and Arab countries, divisions of private military companies took part in the assault.

Their support is stupid, it is clear that the PNS will not fulfill the contracts previously signed by Gaddafi, since Russia doubted for a long time in the previous period. Thus, this action is not justified by economic considerations.

With this step, Moscow dropped the authority of Russia, both in the world and within the country itself. Respect and confidence in Russian foreign policy has become even less. Russia has lost its trump card in the “bargaining”, both with the future winners in the Libyan war and with their masters. Giving this recognition just like that. And so we could bargain for ourselves, at least part of the existing positions on Libya, for example: cooperation in the field of railways, the military-technical sphere, etc. It was necessary to take an example from China, to pull time. Gaddafi is not yet killed, the war continues. Contact and with the "rebels", promise recognition for contracts. Secretly in contact with Gaddafi, the world is amazing, what if a revolution begins tomorrow in the USA and they will not have time for Africa ?! So, Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua refused to recognize the NTC and did the right thing.

It was necessary to take time, let PNS prove its viability. After all, in a month the “Mujahideen” can seize power. They also recognize immediately? Civil war, revolution, the phenomena are complex, their feature is the fact that in the morning there can be one power, and in the evening another.

News from the Libyan front

Tripoli. Now, from the scattered data, we can put together a relatively complete picture, which gives an insight into how we were able to take the capital of Libya. Enemy agents were thrown into the city in advance (including under journalistic cover), the local Islamist underground was activated, the main forces were prepared to capture the capital in the special forces of Great Britain, France, Qatar, Jordan and the UAE, soldiers of private military companies (PMCs) and Al-Qaida's most combat-ready units. There is an opinion that American Marines took part in the landing. When this operation began, one of the generals of government forces opened the western sector of the city’s defense, while he was still able to arrest the officers he had allegedly assembled for a “meeting” and paralyzed defenses in this area with his orders. Therefore, the rebels were able to break into the western outskirts of the capital. At the same time, the enemy’s agents (several subversive units) and the fifth column made a speech in the city. But the main blow was inflicted from the sea; without it, the rebels did not take the city. Amphibious assault troops of NATO, PMCs and Islamists.

A large negative role was played by the factor that the deputy head of intelligence of the Jamahiriya was a traitor for a long time and worked all the time for the enemy. But it was not possible to take the city on the move, the battle for Tripoli was going on for a week. The army units and militia members who remained loyal to Gaddafi retreated to Sirtu to the east and to Ben Walid to the south from the capital of the Libyan state. Unable to capture and kill Gaddafi, his family, it was one of the main tasks during the capture of Tripoli.

Another fact speaks about the sad future of the capital and Libya in general: at present, different areas of Tripoli are ruled by several independent groups of local tribes, reports The New York Times. So, fighters from the western city of Zintan control the airport of the capital; Misurata rebels control the central bank, the port and the residence of the prime minister. And the Berber fighters of the city Yafran occupy the central square of the city. These groups designate signs on the walls of the territory that they control, arguing about zones of influence.

Tragedy sirta

Arguments.ru published excerpts from a letter from one of Gaddafi’s associates, a former Soviet and then Russian special forces unit retired Lt. Col. Ilya Korenev. According to him, aviation For several days in a row, NATO has launched powerful missile and bomb attacks on Sirt, who refused to surrender. The city is completely blocked by rebel checkpoints, which are supported from the rear by special forces of several Arab states, England and France.

Departure from Sirte is completely blocked. Rebels do not let out neither women, nor children. Men who are detained while trying to leave the city with their family are killed on the spot. Families are sent back to the city. Attempts to enter the city were repulsed by government units. According to a retired lieutenant colonel, “the situation is reminiscent of the terrible 95 in winter, when everything that moves is bombed. Without aircraft operators, without exact coordinates. Only Russian aviation had little fuel at that time - the intensity of the raids was much lower. Now NATO aircraft are in the air almost around the clock. ”

PNS managed to achieve delivery stronghold Gaddafi?

Rebel units who besieged the city of Bani Walid, where Gaddafi and his sons Seif al-Islam, Saadi and Mutasim were hiding under one of the versions, were allegedly able to agree on the surrender of the city. This is referring to the television channel Al-Jazeera, reports Reuters. In accordance with this agreement, on September 6, PNC representatives must enter the city, having received full authority over it. The city was blocked in early September, at the same time supporters of Gaddafi were given an ultimatum demanding surrender. But the first negotiations did not work out; Gaddafi’s supporters refused to lay down their arms; there were armed clashes.

Reaching an agreement on the surrender of the city with the representatives of the Varfall tribe, the PNS succeeded after Bani Walid left a number of supporters of M. Gaddafi. But the information needs confirmation.

Niger has become a haven for Gaddafi’s forces.

The Libyan military convoy, which includes 200-250 military vehicles, arrived in the evening in 5 September in the territory of northern Niger in the city of Agadez. This was reported by Reuters on the morning of September 6, citing sources in the French Defense Ministry.

According to the French military, who wished to remain anonymous, fighters from the southern units of the Libyan army arrived in the Libyan convoy in Niger, who remained loyal to Muammar Gaddafi. As suggested by the French, the route of the military convoy ran through Algerian territory.

The French military also said that, according to their information, the Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi and his son Seif al-Islam were considering the possibility of joining this convoy. The interlocutors of the news agency made the assumption that the final point of the route of the Libyan military is Burkina Faso - the state that offered asylum to the Colonel and his family members. In this case, the French reported that at the moment do not have information about the whereabouts of Gaddafi.

Earlier, 4 of September, it was reported that the commander of the "security brigades" (a kind of Gaddafi guard) of the Libyan armed forces of the pre-war period Mansur Dao arrived in Niger. It is believed that this column was taken and part of the gold reserves of Libya.

On the night of September 6, the official representative of Gaddafi, Musa Ibrahim, in an interview with one of the Syrian television channels, said that the leader of the Libyan Jamahiriya had not left his country. This news was voiced by Agence France-Presse. According to Musa Ibrahim: "Gaddafi feels great and is engaged in organizing the defense of Libya." He also said that the sons of the Libyan leader also remain in the state, helping to organize resistance and “willing to sacrifice themselves” for the sake of their homeland. M. Ibrahim himself, according to some assumptions, is located (or was, since the city is being prepared for surrender) in the city of Bani Walid.

There is no reliable information about the whereabouts of the Libyan Jamahiriya’s leader himself since the insurgents, with the support of NATO forces and the Arab enemies of Gaddafi, were able to take Tripoli.
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  1. SLAVA 7 September 2011 08: 02 New
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    Ndaaa ... no words! Dwarves with .... ki ...
  2. kagorta 7 September 2011 08: 06 New
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    The Chinese, as always, are wise and they will save their investments in Libya, I have no doubt, because this is their Chinese for them. And like normal communists, they have politics, a concentrated expression of the economy. First, we have politics, and then business. You can forget about our projects in Libya, and write off the costs.
  3. Sanzyro
    Sanzyro 7 September 2011 08: 56 New
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    Birds of a feather flock together...
  4. AlexTarov 7 September 2011 09: 15 New
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    This is not Moscow’s mistake. This is obscurity and betrayal.
    1. Foamas 7 September 2011 10: 10 New
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      No need to panic. Consider the situation from the point of view of the proverb - "And the wolves are full, and the sheep are safe ......... and the shepherd is eternal memory."
    2. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 17: 44 New
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      And who would doubt it !!!
  5. lokdok
    lokdok 7 September 2011 09: 32 New
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    Normal practical approach. After they were convinced that Gaddafi would not save anything, they tried to recognize the PNS as quickly as possible so as not to lose contracts. But China has already definitely lost its contracts. Therefore, it only remains for it to fight to the end, supporting Kadifi.
    1. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 17: 45 New
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      This is a grandmother in two said who lost and who gained
  6. hellbringer
    hellbringer 7 September 2011 09: 33 New
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    Yes, it’s Medvedev who doesn’t shuffle bureaucrats back and forth (from post to post), here political will is needed. If a person is political impotent, then he is not able to defend the interests of the state in principle ...
    1. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 17: 49 New
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      And who said that he is a bureaucrat shuffling? Knowing about the failure of our government, especially its individual ministers, he is not even able to remove someone. He only puffs sometimes, releasing steam. But how many of his instructions are carried out by the government and officials? Miser. The consequences of ours politicians in Libya no one can predict now.
  7. Cedric
    Cedric 7 September 2011 10: 53 New
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    I don’t see any problems. If the people want to live differently, if they cannot normally re-elect a leader who, it seems to them, makes the life of an ordinary person unbearable, then why not overthrow him by revolution? What difference does it make now that they did it with the help of Europe and the USA, the main thing is that they will live differently now. But this fuss for sharing the Libyan oil pie, who managed to go somewhere faster ... is simply disgusting. Any leader of the country should <u> DISCLAIMER </u> serve his people, I can’t say this about Gaddafi.
    1. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 17: 53 New
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      And who are the participants in this so-called revolution? We first called them rebels, and then dubbed rebels. So who are they? Or maybe US mercenaries? It will be more accurate. But how would we react if NATO supported Dudaev in due time? How do we feel about those who supported him?
  8. AlexTarov 7 September 2011 11: 25 New
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    Cedric, go nuts of course ... Do you even write about which country, or from which? Do you even know what happened and is happening in Libya? Generally in the Middle East, Arab countries? And what about the disinterested service of the people of the country's leader?
    1. ballian
      ballian 7 September 2011 12: 05 New
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      Quote: AlexTarov
      Do you even know what happened and is happening in Libya? Generally in the Middle East, Arab countries?

      Do you know what happened and is happening? Or consider yourself a very knowledgeable person?
    2. Mesniy
      Mesniy 7 September 2011 14: 08 New
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      But what, do you have any special information that is only available to you? You’re not imposing your worthless opinion on other people. He was crazy, you see! Figeye to a rag ...
  9. Splin
    Splin 7 September 2011 11: 39 New
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    There is a question to admit, go no - rhetorical. I can’t say anything about Russian interests, I’ll say about Ukrainian ones. Naturally, in Kiev they know that they will get a donut hole from the former contracts. But if you do not admit, then those of the Ukrainians who are right now in Libya are nobody. And the embassy is just a miserable mansion, not the territory of another state. The phobia in relation to the Slavs from the former USSR is great there. They are snipers and a poleaxe, that's all their fate. And so there is the opportunity to protect them at the state level. There were detained three dozen people 23 Ukrainian oil industry worker (sniper). You saw these "snipers" on the video. To dudes over fifty. and belly in half. If the PNS had not been recognized for a long time, their heads, like the Negroes, would have been cut off to everyone ...
  10. DEfindER 7 September 2011 12: 11 New
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    What Russia, what China, you just need to forget about the contracts, because the very meaning of this war was to throw these 2 countries out of this region of Africa! In general, I very much doubt the very existence of the rebels.

    Firstly, the standard of living in the country is the highest in Africa, and many Europeans would envy the Libyans.
    Secondly, the country had high stability, tribal relations, achieved by the leadership for a long time.
    Thirdly, the so-called rebels in their production interviews never said that they were not happy with Gaddafi’s regime.
    Fourth, the existing direct facts of the participation in the war of gangs of formations from other Arab countries of the opponents of Gaddafi.
    Fifthly, Russian citizens working in Libya, told everything as one that there were no demonstrations and there was no fierce suppression anywhere, but there was pure aggression by the militants. And the staged filming of rallies could be in the same Qatar where even the scenery was erected under Libya.

    From all this, a direct conclusion follows that the rebels are nothing more than detachments of separatists formed and armed abroad, which came out in order to overthrow the government.
    1. Splin
      Splin 7 September 2011 12: 17 New
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      So it is, the Core, and the rest are just "lost" people who said that black is white and vice versa. On Independence Square in Kiev in 2004, this also happened. Thank God there was no bloodshed
    2. ballian
      ballian 7 September 2011 12: 34 New
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      You yourself were in Libya to talk? Against the background of the rest of poverty in Africa, Libya is really “the richest country.” Where did you see stability there - if such a big mess flared up there? Of course, under the dictatorship, everything, outwardly, calmly, is why it explodes. What other "staging" are your "Russian citizens" who were hanging around at these rallies ?? They tell what they see on Gaddaf-TV. The rebels quite say that they are not happy - if you have not heard - your problems.
      Your conclusion is unfounded even on your own speculations.
      1. SLAVA 7 September 2011 12: 53 New
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        ))) Well, you yourself were there? To talk about the background and stability? Or can you only troll, in almost all branches? !!!
        1. ballian
          ballian 7 September 2011 13: 21 New
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          Here's an example of a big rebel interview
          http://tribuna.com.ua/articles/world/273796.htm
          .
          A series of reports by the Izvestia special correspondent from "their" rebel side
          http://www.izvestia.ru/story/191
          .
          Here, too, from their side.
          http://slon.ru/blogs/orkhandjemal/post/577428/
          http://www.kommersant.ru/Doc/1610044
          1. SLAVA 7 September 2011 13: 27 New
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            Yes, by the way, you forgot to attach the recent video "documents" on the capture of Gaddafi's sons in Tripoli, concocted almost at the Spielberg film studio !!!!!!!)))
        2. Mesniy
          Mesniy 10 September 2011 10: 53 New
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          have you ever been what are you gagging man shut up and hawai
      2. Splin
        Splin 7 September 2011 12: 55 New
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        The question is not for me, but I will answer too. I was not in Libya, I was in Venezuela, but my neighbor on the landing, a doctor, was in Tripoli and in Benghazi and in Misurat. And he also heard praises from him about the government that was in power. And the fact that the east of Libya, where the uprising began (essentially a coup), lived poorer than Tripoli, so Moscow also does not personify all Russian cities. In Vladik, the lights were turned off for a long time when the capital shone with lights.
      3. dmb
        dmb 7 September 2011 13: 11 New
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        And how is Gaddaf-TV different from NTV and the Western media. All of them show what their employers want to see. Or do you seriously think that Libya was bombed because of philanthropy and a heightened sense of justice. Then where were these feelings when there was a massacre in Sudan and a dozen countries in Africa. Something I do not remember the angry UN resolutions. reinforced by bombers. Maybe the whole "bazaar" is due to oil.
      4. DEfindER 7 September 2011 13: 27 New
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        Well, if you do not believe your compatriots, but prefer to believe the corrupt media that serve the aggressor, then I really have nothing to talk about with you!

        Against the background of what poverty, in Africa there are very poor countries, South Africa for example! Stability in Libya was due to the fact that people were guaranteed social rights and equality for all tribes, and they were all represented in the government. The "staging" of personnel with the rebels has already been discussed so many times and so many facts that many frames were shot not in Libya but, for example, in the same Qatar ..

        And even our citizens in Libya said that they were struck by the hypocrisy of the media that showed the city in which they were in the form of protests and pogroms, when they themselves see a calm and normal life!
        1. Splin
          Splin 7 September 2011 13: 36 New
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          Africa is not a poor continent at all. It’s just that the West, when it lost its colonies, began to ruin it with interstate, civil wars. religious., to buy all the resources on the cheap. South Africa is lucky - they achieved independence at the beginning of the 20th century. But they also had an eternal struggle between the races.
          1. ballian
            ballian 7 September 2011 20: 55 New
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            Quote: Splin
            Africa is not a poor mainland at all

            It’s okay to blame everything on the “colonialists” —the countries have already become free and independent — but no, the damned whites are to blame again :))))))))
            South Africa was "lucky" only because it was a European white state.
        2. ballian
          ballian 7 September 2011 13: 46 New
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          Which compatriots to believe? There, according to my links, there are also Ukrainian doctors - they do not bear any blizzard about the "staging" of what is happening and unrealistic salaries. That is, our media (my links) also serve the "aggressor"? Do you perceive anything other than Gaddaf propaganda?
          dmb- The difference between the media of a totalitarian country and the free one everyone who lived in the USSR remembers, in conditions when there are a lot of media, no one will drive out any snowstorm - why - it's easy to understand.
          Gaddafi did not refuse to sell his oil, and the same companies were extracted by Western companies. Moreover, France had the strongest positions.
          1. DEfindER 7 September 2011 14: 07 New
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            Gaddaf propaganda compared to pro-Western like a fly with an elephant, but nevertheless if you turn on the brains, and not stupidly believe the noskoprobny directorial supplies of the West, then it becomes obvious what is happening there.
            At the same time, you are right that the first time, and the Russian channels broadcast all this blizzard about Gaddafi, showing the plots of Western media, thank God then came to their senses and began to say everything is as it really is.
            And on the account of the sale of oil, of course, Gaddafi was selling it, but there was a problem in that he was the only one in the region who was not a puppet of the West, and wanted to unite Africa so that it was adequately represented in the world, and that the Pindos could not allow circumstances!
            1. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 18: 06 New
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              But, unfortunately, no one wanted to unite. It is difficult to get the local princes to go for it. Take our country - in 1991 they fled like cockroaches. Now unite them. Everyone wants to rule.
            2. ballian
              ballian 7 September 2011 20: 33 New
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              Is everything clear to you? Get fucked up. You must have been stoned by Starikov.
          2. Splin
            Splin 7 September 2011 14: 13 New
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            Well, I am a citizen of Ukraine and my neighbor on the site and we live in Ukraine and I have the opportunity to trust him more, because he saw everything with his own eyes. And about general information in the media. When I was still “playing” in the army at the end of the 99th, a French officer, after the Nth amount of moonshine in broken English-Russian (this also exists), argued with foam at the mouth that if NATO had not bombed Yugoslavia, then the Serbs all the Kosovars were cut.
            And some time later, the guys who were in Kosovo in KFOR said they saw with their own eyes how the Kosovars mocked the Serbs, but the Polish major who commanded them said not to interfere.
            1. ballian
              ballian 7 September 2011 20: 12 New
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              Get fucked up, how many friends here with the "seen" :))))))))
          3. dmb
            dmb 7 September 2011 14: 29 New
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            So, what about Sudan? But oil can be taken at a higher price, or cheaper. Since in the previous comments you are calling for specifics. I’ll remind you of a video of Chechen bandits. Negroes, Arabs and UNA-UNSO clearly do not belong to the indigenous population of Chechnya. As for the media. Let me remind you, the numerous native and foreign media outlets that stigmatized our army and praised the "freedom-loving" Chechen people. Then they unitedly transferred him to the category of "terrorists." So when and who drove the blizzard? See for you the concept of information war is an invention of the "evil commies." If so, then I feel sorry for you. You with good reason can be attributed to the "victim among the civilian population" from its consequences.
            1. ballian
              ballian 7 September 2011 20: 24 New
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              What is Sudan? Everything there ended with its division into the Arabian north and the Nigerian south. Just because the war in Chechnya has nothing to do with un-unso, blacks, Arabs - it’s clear to any fool, by the way the notorious Khattab seems to be a descendant of those who fled to the Ottoman Empire after the defeat in the Caucasus the war.
              You can call Chechen fighters "terrorists", "separatists", "freedom fighters" ,,,, - this does not at all change what happened there - it’s scoops used to being "explained" to someone who is "bad" or " good"
              Full of sources of information - no one is dripping on your brains.
              1. dmb
                dmb 8 September 2011 12: 12 New
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                I actually wondered why NATO in the Sudan was not bombed by "protecting civilians." Of course, I did not wait for an answer. Apparently you do not want to voice it. Insulting our people with “scoops”, you are insulting your parents as well. I am not familiar with them, and I can’t say whether they deserve it or not. Most likely no. I feel sorry for you. Regarding the "good and bad. Chechnya is my homeland, I was there in the 70 and the 90 and the 2000. Therefore, when you talk about the social base, you probably proceed from the views of Udugov. Concerning blacks and Arabs , you can be very dumb, but where do you get to filming the so-called "independent" media? I also did not hear a response from you.
          4. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 18: 03 New
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            It is in the conditions of the so-called freedom that they drive more snowstorm than in a severe storm. The snowstorm is obtained from zhurnalyug-idlers who are ready for anything for their rating. They do not care that they are deceiving everyone and everything. they are "free." They themselves, probably sick of their creativity, "but they drive by inertia ...
            1. ballian
              ballian 7 September 2011 20: 30 New
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              I will try to explain the dense scoop.
              The media that constantly carries the blizzard and lies will quickly cease to listen and it will die - there are plenty more professional and truthful.
              1. irony
                irony 7 September 2011 21: 02 New
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                Like the Air Force and CNN? )))
                1. Mesniy
                  Mesniy 11 September 2011 16: 45 New
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                  So.
        3. Sasha 7 September 2011 15: 51 New
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          what are you raving about South Africa after the overthrow of the apartheid regime in a deep ass.
          Quote: DEfindER
          our citizens in Libya spoke
          This of course is a weighty argument I will not even argue.
          I am far from a supporter of what is happening in Libya, but there’s nothing to exaggerate to anyone.
          I remember until recently, many shouted that now kakdafi will show odd not really shown.
        4. Mesniy
          Mesniy 10 September 2011 10: 54 New
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          I don’t believe my compatriots for 50 kopecks since the 80s, and I’ve never been mistaken
      5. irony
        irony 7 September 2011 20: 57 New
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        Interesting, ballian, what about Russian reality? We are fine? I, last year, was in Belarus. He traveled a lot and spoke to people. I listened to conversations in cafes (of which, for a poorly living country, an amazing amount). Watched, watched. And it was not clear to me where these masses of dissatisfied, which show on ORT and others like them? There is such an order that Russia has not seen for many years. And all because the country has a master! And by the way, there is no need for a passport when buying currency or buying train tickets. Somehow it does not fit with the image of a "totalitarian state."
        1. ballian
          ballian 7 September 2011 21: 20 New
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          Quote: irony
          I, last year, was in Belarus. He traveled a lot and spoke to people.

          Well dear, you missed a lot - in the NEW YEAR, unpleasant events took place in the economy there. - somehow you are behind the times.
          And in addition, do not think that those sitting here in Russia (or Belarus) in a cafe with their pants pulled up will run to vote for Putin.
          1. irony
            irony 7 September 2011 22: 53 New
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            Putin, for me, is not much different from Yeltsin and Gorbachev. A lot of words and little deed useful for the country, rather the opposite. This year, unpleasant events have occurred in several European countries, if my memory serves me right. Moreover - Western. Only no one rushed to fill their fire with loans in euros, as happened with Greece and Spain. Get away from the topic. I wrote that the media ARE NOT THE SOURCE OF RELIABLE INFORMATION. By the example of my experience.
    3. Mesniy
      Mesniy 10 September 2011 10: 52 New
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      yeah, in the spirit of 39 years. This is already in the last century, expelled, and you still chew
  11. figwam 7 September 2011 13: 02 New
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    In approving a forceful coup from the outside, we ourselves give the green light to such a practice, but if such an invasion affects us or our allies?
    1. Mesniy
      Mesniy 7 September 2011 14: 13 New
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      And it will certainly touch, the cunning has already touched. And it has touched Syria. And the rest of the ugly regimes will certainly touch. And our allies are just like that, because the current Russian regime is, to put it mildly, not beautiful, and many people don’t like it!
      1. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 18: 10 New
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        In general, before you call a regime ugly, you need to look at yourself in the mirror and compare ... It will not be in your favor.
  12. Patriot
    Patriot 7 September 2011 13: 03 New
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    DEfindER

    I agree. There were no rebels there.
    And what if several hundred or thousands of armed militants are thrown into our country, for example, in Chechnya, with the support of the West and the inaction of medical routes that will take city by city, FOR YOURSELF, THIS WILL ALSO BE OPPOSITION, which all countries will then have to reckon with of the world? Initially, it was a rabble - assassins and Islamic terrorists.
    1. Splin
      Splin 7 September 2011 13: 10 New
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      And what was wrong? There was a cloud of mercenaries. Everything was, with the exception of direct Western military support, because Russia has vigorous weapons and the army has not yet completely died. And the Russian soldier was already in Paris and in Berlin, so he knows the way there.
    2. ballian
      ballian 7 September 2011 13: 54 New
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      And who said that they were “thrown” and “armed”? Can you tell me that the “mishandled” and “armed” from the “west” fought in Chechnya?
      You yourself, by your example (Chechnya), let it slip that without a local social base this is pure fantasy.
      Nothing but pure "conspiratorial" speculations on this subject exists.
      1. DEfindER 7 September 2011 14: 10 New
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        Social base in Chechnya ??? What are you talking about? there were only frightened villagers who were executed in case of refusal to fight for the militants. The exact same picture in Libya, one to one, except for the bombing!
        1. ballian
          ballian 7 September 2011 20: 36 New
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          As for the "executed for refusal" - well, finally, I waited for DEfindER to simply impudently wishful thinking - like all gaddafodrocher dreamers.
          1. solodova 9 September 2011 12: 02 New
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            I know a woman, a Russian, who, with her two children, was hidden by Chechen families from terrorists. Under the threat of death, because if they had found, they would have cut everyone out, both Russians and Chechens.
        2. Mesniy
          Mesniy 10 September 2011 11: 08 New
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          They say about such people - "they are lying like an eyewitness!"
      2. Splin
        Splin 7 September 2011 14: 17 New
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        Nobody threw them. And of course there weren’t just some mercenaries. It’s more correct to say that they were there like a cat crying. But they and the “initiative group” of the Chechens were the pushing force that put thousands of Chechens under arms.
        1. ballian
          ballian 7 September 2011 20: 38 New
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          Splin, your personal fantasies are uninteresting.
          1. dmb
            dmb 9 September 2011 14: 51 New
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            A bit about fantasy. I want to share the events that I was an eyewitness and participant. In September of 1991, I had to be at the headquarters of Dudaev. There were also representatives of Gamsakhurdia and Arabs. They were engaged, as you know, not enlightenment. As for the social base, I recall that the standard of living in the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic was much higher than in the Volga region. However, neither Tatarstan nor Bashkiria took up arms. And if, the so-called federal government at that moment would want to put things in order, it would have brought it elementary. Moreover, the Chechens themselves would have done it, many of whom neither Dudayev, nor his gang were needed. Believe me, I was familiar with many. The truth is still I do not understand why our independent media called people who supported legal power in the Russian Federation called the opposition. But EB and his harlot were not up to them. And then it began. I want to remind you that at that moment, a third of the population of the Chechen-Ingush Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic were Russians, Ukrainians, and Armenians. the Jews. Ask these people what happened to their family and their property. I want to remind you that until November 1994 of the year, that is, before the introduction of troops, bandits captured entire classes in schools three times in various cities of the Russian Federation, exchanging them with the Government for money, after which they quietly lived in Chechnya. Do you think that a gangster enclave can be considered a rebellious people and, when tidying the territory of a gangster enclave with tough measures, use NATO aviation against our country? By your logic, yes. For in my opinion the Libyan PNS is no different from the Dudaevsky "government."
            1. Mesniy
              Mesniy 10 September 2011 11: 07 New
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              when “restoring constitutional order” in Chechnya, our army destroyed ethnic Russians more than chocks, bobbers and artillery strikes on squares, and just “shoot at what’s moving”, it’s not without reason that everyone, and chocks, and local Russian army and so on were called the same - “federals” "...
              1. dmb
                dmb 12 September 2011 09: 44 New
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                E that you are from personal experience, or S.A. Kovalev told Novodvorskaya?
              2. Mesniy
                Mesniy 13 September 2011 11: 27 New
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                Imagine from a personal ...
    3. Mesniy
      Mesniy 7 September 2011 14: 16 New
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      It’s clear - anyone who is against the current ugliness is “abandoned”
      To carry such a blizzard it is necessary to "attack" well!
      1. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 18: 13 New
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        It seems to me that someone personally hired you to say dirty tricks about everything and everyone. In fact, not a single positive thought. So who are you?
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 8 September 2011 22: 29 New
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          I express my opinion, and if you consider it dirty, I do not care, they write much more dirty things here, but with someone’s soul, and this suits many.
      2. roninas 7 September 2011 22: 15 New
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        such as you are empty-handed, capable of pouring out their anger only on the Internet. start feeding red caviar to everyone, so you will again be against it. What prevents you from simply leaving for another country where you will be curly ??? Correct, your worthlessness, for nobody you are not needed, fuckers, better than you are full and so
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 11 September 2011 16: 52 New
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          You scum, say yes, don’t talk, would you call me that when you met - I’d put your dumb ass in your ass.
          If I were 20 years old - I would leave and not think for 5 minutes. But I am not leaving, because I have business and obligations here, but you’re unlikely to understand this. You need to be a man for this. So that you don’t measure red caviar You need to let the yushka go, I hope they will let it go.
          I apologize, but podbesil - deleted - really, could not help but answer.
  13. Patriot
    Patriot 7 September 2011 13: 32 New
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    Splin

    because Russia has vigorous weapons and the army has not yet completely died. And the Russian soldier was already in Paris and in Berlin, so he knows the way there.


    Speak correctly. But for now. For, Dima with Vova and Perdyukov make titanic efforts to deprive us of the army. You will know them by their deeds.
    1. Mesniy
      Mesniy 7 September 2011 14: 18 New
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      And also, if I forgot, in Russia there are people who want to live a human life - tobish by Western standards! And they know the way to Moscow!
      1. Splin
        Splin 7 September 2011 14: 31 New
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        Yes, the French and Poles were in Moscow, they did not like her, there was too much light from the fires. But seriously, do not confuse Western standards with lifestyle. We are creating this way of life for ourselves, following the example of neighbors from the West. And the standards ... I suppose I hate those deputies who care about the good of the country for its equality in Western life, and they themselves go on vacation to Mallorca to follow individually those standards.
        1. Mesniy
          Mesniy 8 September 2011 22: 34 New
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          and I don’t find those who do not care about the welfare of the country. And who goes where - in half, having rest abroad is really better, and often cheaper.
          For example, in Turkey it is cheaper and better than in the Krasnodar Territory
          I know by hearsay
      2. DEfindER 7 September 2011 14: 35 New
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        Western standards are actually the same primitive system where the one who is stronger is right (or the one who is richer in a modern way) Money decides everything, but a person does not mean anything if he does not have capital.
        1. ballian
          ballian 7 September 2011 20: 41 New
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          You are unfounded - in the West everything is decided by the Law - and there are a lot of confirmations of this.
        2. Mesniy
          Mesniy 8 September 2011 22: 31 New
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          the primitive system was built by the communists in the years 20-30
        3. Mesniy
          Mesniy 10 September 2011 11: 02 New
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          Yes, you're a dude talking about Russia
      3. AleksUkr 7 September 2011 18: 18 New
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        And what is considered a Western standard? Previously, there were no bars on the windows of houses. Now up to the last floor. Is this the western standard? It’s full of beggars on the street, killings every day, planes fall more often than rain, pay wages through a stump deck - this is the Western standard. And there are many such examples. A solid negative life by Western standards. I feel sorry for you and your loved ones. they obviously don't like your western standards either.
        1. ballian
          ballian 7 September 2011 20: 43 New
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          vote for the Communist Party-no one forbids you
          1. AleksUkr 8 September 2011 17: 02 New
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            It is not a matter of voting for the Communist Party or not. You need to take a sober approach to real life and evaluate not with foam on the lips. We got freedom from duties. We wanted to say our rights, we beg, no begging. We are afraid to tear our heads off the pillow. Got the right to disgust? Got it. Go to any unguarded staircase - in a public toilet on the street cleaner. And we walk by and spit at our feet, in the hope that the neighbor will come. And our children are watching. We are ruining the young generation, if we have not already ruined. Look at how they relate to each other, older women. Apart from themselves, they do not want to see or hear anyone. And this is our fault, for chewing gum and ghostly freedom they lost their homeland. It's only the beginning.
        2. Mesniy
          Mesniy 8 September 2011 22: 36 New
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          All that you have listed has nothing to do with the west. There is no such thing.
          By the way, I have a house without bars, and my relatives too. Some of them live in the west, and pity those who are here.
  14. iulai
    iulai 7 September 2011 18: 02 New
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    Russia has always sold friends, its citizens .........
  15. Patriot
    Patriot 7 September 2011 18: 30 New
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    Mesniy Today,
    And also, if I forgot, in Russia there are people who want to live a human life - tobish by Western standards! And they know the road to Moscow!

    I remind you that we have not yet switched to you.

    And as for standards, It may happen that the so-called Western standards may not be worth a damn. I see you as a classic Muscovite. Which medveputi bombarded that everything in the country is OK. BEYOND MKAD, IT WOULD HAVE TO GO.
    1. Mesniy
      Mesniy 8 September 2011 22: 40 New
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      Well amused! I live from Moscow 1500 km! Although there are relatives there. And I often ride around the country. So with a finger to the sky ....
  16. irony
    irony 7 September 2011 21: 09 New
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    D.A.M. very reminiscent of Nicholas II. Mediocre and limp, but with ambition. He brought the empire to collapse, but where does this lead us?
    1. AleksUkr 8 September 2011 17: 06 New
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      If I had led it myself, and so in tandem. You don’t even have to make a claim to whom. And who will continue to finish off the advantages of grandmothers from them further? We are waiting for the EdRo congress. They will start to PR with some leader and we will swim to vote for him. Although there will be a party of thieves and crooks behind him. But we will not care. We are for the leader. Laughing at the Korean leader, and what are we better?
      1. irony
        irony 8 September 2011 23: 29 New
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        I do not think that we will "swim" to vote. In general, elections in Russia are a thing in themselves. "Potemkin villages" were a smaller farce.
        And the tandem is for Europe. DAM plays the president, and Putin spins his business. Only, here is this game, very bad at work. Therefore, they make analogies with Libya, describing the current situation in the country.
        1. Banshee 9 September 2011 11: 33 New
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          Quote: irony
          I do not think that we will "float" vote.


          They are counting on this, let's not poke a finger in the bucket. And each blank ballot will be filled in the right way.
          It seems to me that you can come and just spoil it, if you really don't want to vote for anyone at all.
          Everything is better than playing into the hands of the addors and the addressees.
  17. Splin
    Splin 9 September 2011 06: 48 New
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    And in Bulgaria, rest is cheaper than in Crimea. But this is not Mallorca or the Canaries, or even Cyprus. And in order to rest, it was cheaper in their homeland, it is necessary to popularize it, so that the locals would know that their income is not only 3-4 months a year.
    PS And then they are baked only in words.
  18. Patriot
    Patriot 9 September 2011 14: 12 New
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    sniy

    I'm already tired of recalling that we did not have a transition to you. You should respect your interlocutor.

    And, if you do not see the whole burden of the situation in which our country is. I can advise several things.
    1-clear your PINK GLASSES!
    2-imagine the situation when oil will cost $ 30-35
    3-also mentally imagine a situation of aggression on the part of a neighbor. The reasons for this may be different.
    And, think about what will happen to our country, which has remained almost without ECONOMY, OWN PRODUCTION AND THE ARMY!
    1. Mesniy
      Mesniy 10 September 2011 10: 58 New
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      if oil will cost $ 30-35, you can safely forget that the rashka finally existed
      1. Banshee 10 September 2011 20: 25 New
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        This is definitely not waiting for ...
      2. zczczc
        zczczc 11 September 2011 18: 23 New
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        But figs to you! At least zero. We have more people in the direction of buggers and their sweet speeches will not look.
  19. Rodover
    Rodover 10 September 2011 20: 21 New
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    Mesniy you do not touch Russia. You will rot, it will remain.
    1. Mesniy
      Mesniy 11 September 2011 16: 56 New
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      Well, I’ll figure out how to touch it myself and what’s not. By the way, in my memory, the scoop has disappeared, the whole eastern Europe has thrown off the komunyak, Yugoslavia has disappeared, and still why the hell. And I'm not old, I’ll live again ...