What do we need Mistrals for?

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe announced that he was going, with this support, to change the most unfair articles of the Constitution imposed by Americans in 1947. This is primarily about the absolutely inappropriate in the modern conditions of 9 article, which provides for the rejection of the creation of the armed forces. Japan, Abe is firmly convinced, should become a normal country with a strong army, with which all neighbors will have to reckon.

Prime Minister Shinzo Abe

In principle, this fact alone is enough to understand: Russia needs Mistrals. And both on the Pacific Fleet. However, let me remind you that Russia has at least three potential sea points related to the need to protect its interests and sovereignty. These are the Western Arctic (Bely Island, Victoria Island, Franz Josef Land, etc.), the Eastern Arctic Region (Wrangel Island, Chukotka, and even Kamchatka) and the Far East, more precisely, the Kuril Islands and Fr. Sakhalin.

Leaving out the presence of an aircraft carrier fleet in the USA and Great Britain for operations in the Northern Hemisphere and the Western Arctic (as well as a number of helicopter carriers, warships of docks, floating military platforms, etc.) in other NATO countries and “conditionally neutral” northern countries, it is worth mentioning how the carrier fleet is developing a country that still has territorial claims against Russia. About Japan and the USA. Yes, the USA! If everything is more or less clear with Japan, then the territorial dispute between the United States and Russia is somehow not customary to widely spread either here or in the United States.

Let's start with Japan. And let's talk about the territorial claims of our main “partner” at the end of the article.

Despite the fact that Japan has been forbidden to have ships capable of operating far from Japan in 1947, and it is forbidden to have aircraft carriers (carrier fleet), however, Japan has an impressive arsenal of ships directly related to the carrier fleet - and this on the prohibitions that were circumvented very elegantly: it is not a helicopter carrier, but a destroyer! Or even better - the destroyer! In general, due to the conditions imposed by the Americans and tacit approval during the First Cold War, the classification of the Japanese Navy is very peculiar and worthy of a separate article.

(The Japanese Constitution contains an 9 article that explicitly prohibits the creation of naval armed forces, and Japan’s self-defense forces cannot have the technical means to conduct combat operations far from islands, such as aircraft carriers or strategic bombers.)

So, small Japan, which is part of 10 countries with the longest coastal line (slightly less than 30 thousands of kilometers), has 4 (four) aircraft carrier (helicopter) ships, not counting landing docks (8 ships: 4 type "Osumi" ( + 1 under construction), 1 of type “Atsumi”, 1 of type “Miura”, 2 of type “Yura”) and also 38 of warships capable of carrying from one to two helicopters: 8 destroyers (type “Asagiri”), 9 of destroyers (type Murasme), 5 destroyers (Takan type), 4 destroyers (Akizuki type), well, and 12 frigates (Hatsuyuki type).

Those. total 50 ships having the ability to land assault forces of various capacities from the horizon. Simultaneous use of all ships on, say, the Kuriles is unlikely, but still the most powerful are 4 helicopter-carrying ships: destroyers-helicopter-carrying ships of the “Hyuga” type (2 pieces: the Hyuga itself and its Ieter sistership with a standard displacement over XNXXX tons each) and destroyers of the Sirane type (also 15 pieces: Sirane itself and its Kurama sistership). But in addition to the Navy, there are also patrol boats of the Shikishima class, which are the largest in the world (at the moment, until China completes its “Haijian-000”), also carrying a pair of multipurpose helicopters in the hangar.

Patrol boat class "Shikishima"

And all of them are already being replaced by the most powerful helicopter-carrying flagship of Japan (or in addition, since the official departure of helicopters like Sirane has not been announced, and there is information that Izumo changes Sirane, only in analytical articles, publications completely equidistant from the offices of the Ministry of Defense of Japan) - the new helicopter carrier-destroyer (according to the perverted logic of the Japanese) Izumo, the lead ship of the series (tail number DDH183) already on the water and retrofitted with equipment (commissioned - March 2015 of the year), and the second ship (board howling number 24DDH) already on the stocks (entry into operation - March 2017 years).

So, 6 of August last year in Japan officially presented the largest military ship of those that were produced in this country after the Second World War. This is the Izumo helicopter carrier.

"Izumo" (center) in comparison with the normal aircraft carrier and the previous helicopter carrier

Key Features:

Displacement 19 500 tons (standard), 27 000 tons (full)
Length 248,0 m
Width 38,0 m
Height 23,5 m
Precipitation 7,5 m
Engines Combined GTU, 4 turbines General Electric LM2500
Power 112 000 l. with. (82,4 MW)
2 screw propeller
30 nodes travel speed
Crew 470 man (970 along with the landing force)

Armament:
Radar equipment radar OPS-28 and OPS-50, GUS OQQ-23
Electronic armament BIUS OYQ-12, electronic warfare station NOLQ-3D-1
Anti-aircraft artillery 2 × 6 - 20-mm ZAKMark 15 Phalanx CIWS
2 rocket armament × SeaRAM SAM
Aviation group - up to 14 SH-60K SeaHawk helicopters (on the next ship it is possible to base 2 MV-22 “Osprey” convertiplanes, as well as F-35B Lightning 2 VTOL aircraft)

Izumo laid 27 on January 2012 of the year. Launched 6 August 2013 of the year. Since that time, work was carried out on the installation of equipment. Interestingly, the official submission of the ship was scheduled for August 6, and on that day in 1945 there were completely unnecessary full-scale tests by the Americans weapons (the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki 6 and 9 August 1945, respectively). Representatives of the authorities noted that the coincidence of the date of the presentation of the vessel and the 68 anniversary of the nuclear bombing of the city of Hiroshima is pure coincidence.

It is assumed that the vessel will be used for search and rescue. In addition, it will protect the state borders of Japan. Official China reacted negatively to the message from Japan, saying that the latter is building up its military potential in violation of Article 9 of its own Constitution.

Let me remind you that the Constitution of Japan prohibits the commissioning of military equipment and weapons, which may allow to conduct military operations at a significant distance from the Japanese islands, including strategic bombers and aircraft carriers. In the construction of the ship was invested, according to various sources, 1,2-1,5 billion dollars.

The new ship of the Japanese Navy under the name "Izumo" has a deck and dimensions similar to the aircraft carrier Sekaku and Dzuikaku, which took part in the attack on the Pearl Harbor base of the US Navy in 1941 year, but the government still insists that it is not an aircraft carrier. With a length of about 250 m and a standard displacement of 19500 t "Izumo" is the largest ship in the Japanese Navy. 9 helicopters (or 6 convertiplanes) can simultaneously sit on its deck.

Now (for the first ship), the ship’s air group can be up to 14 helicopters, the standard composition is 7 anti-submarine helicopters and 2 search and rescue. In the foreseeable future, the main purpose of the ship will be precisely the fight against submarines, although the ship also has capabilities for transporting troops - up to 400 paratroopers with 50 trucks by 3,5 tons each. The possibilities for landing are certainly very limited, but it is worth remembering the recent joint exercises with the United States, during which the MV-22 Oprof helicopters landed on the deck of the Izumo helicopter destroyer of the Hyuga type.

Helicopter destroyer Hyuga ("Hyuga") at the joint Japanese-American exercises.

Nevertheless, the Ministry of Defense and the command of the Navy insist that this ship, launched last summer, is “just a destroyer capable of carrying helicopters.” The media in China and South Korea have stated that this “semi-avino carrier” is evidence of a heel to the right of Japan’s foreign policy. Military journalist Shinichi Kiyotani (Shinichi Kiyotani) said that "in accordance with the international standards of this class of ships" Izumo "- aircraft carrier.

"Izumo" - "helicopter carrier"

The government is afraid to admit this fact, as it fears political consequences. ” Meanwhile, the reputable British warship guide Jane's Fighting Ships, which is published annually, classifies this ship as a helicopter carrier. Izumo should replace the Sirane helicopter carrier with a standard displacement of 5200 tons. From which sources this respected British reference book took information about replacing Sirane with Izumo, was not specified.

It is assumed that vertical fighters, such as the F-35B, can be based on Izumo, but a high-ranking defense official said that “such an upgrade is possible, but practically impracticable, since it will require a huge amount of time and money, including for the purchase of fighters and the training of necessary personnel for their operation. " Certainly a senior official of the Ministry of Defense of Japan is cunning. On the first ship of the Izumo series, it is not officially possible to carry an VTOL of the F-35B. But in almost all the notes about the new (second under construction) ship it is said about the possibility of carrying the F-35B Lightning II VTOL in the future.

Resorting to Photoshop, artists turn Izumo into an aircraft carrier, the carrier of the F-35B fighter aircraft.

Again, in December 2011 of Japan decided to purchase a land modification of Lightning II with normal takeoff and landing. In addition, in many publications it is noted that despite the fact that the length of the flight deck allows F-35B to take off even without a springboard, the ship will need significant improvement - covering the deck with heat-resistant materials, probably strengthening elevators of aircraft lifters, installing systems for landing automation. And again, all this refers to the first ship of the series. During the construction of the second ship, these problems should not be technically insurmountable, and the question of the return of aircraft carriers to the Japanese navy will be a matter of policy.

"Izumo" on the stocks

The former commander of the Japanese Navy Yoji Koda (Yoji Koda) said: "Izumo" - a ship that is fundamentally different from an aircraft carrier. If appropriate conditions arise in the future and a decision is made to build an aircraft carrier, such a ship can be built only after explaining to the public what it is for. ”

Izumo and the public


How, where and with whom?

Now, after reviewing the profile media (above), we will critically think about Japan’s practical use of its Izumo.

Izumo and its predecessor

The Izumo aircraft carrier smooth upper deck (flat-topped). Theoretically, he can take not only helicopters, but also vertical take-off and landing aircraft. However, the AV-8B Harrier attack aircraft, which, for example, are armed with American universal assault ships of the Wasp type capable of performing the functions of light aircraft carriers, are now considered obsolete, their production has ceased.

They should be replaced by short-takeoff and vertical landing aircraft F-35B Lightning II. But in order for them to be based on the same Wasp UDC, it will be necessary to reinforce the deck and cover it with more heat-resistant material, since the high temperatures of the powerful F-35B engines literally can burn the ship. Therefore, talk about the fact that the Japanese helicopter carriers of the new generation will actually perform the functions of aircraft carriers, most likely - speculation. Yes, and how much they can take F-35B? Two or three, from strength - four. And against whom can these poorly armed "aircraft carriers" use?

In addition, the current constitution prohibits the Land of the Rising Sun from having ships of this class. Although everything is relative and changeable in this world. The same basic law of Japan prohibits Japan from having a naval force. But the ICJA created instead of them is, according to expert estimates, the second largest fleet in Asia after the Chinese in terms of combat capabilities. And if we put the nuclear component of the PLA Navy into the brackets, then undoubtedly, the Japanese fleet can be put in the first place, especially given the highest level of training of seafarers, the excellent quality of ships, and the well-balanced balance of the ISJA.

The aircraft carriers appeared as part of the ISSJ not yesterday. They occupy a special place in the structure of the Maritime Self-Defense Forces. The fact is that during the years of the “cold war” the United States clearly regulated the duties of its junior partners (and now they are trying to do the same, but with less success). One of the main tasks of the NJLI was to protect communications in the Far Eastern waters, including the detection and destruction of Soviet submarines in the event of war. Now this task remains, only the focus has been shifted mainly to the Chinese underwater threat.

As is known, the most reliable anti-submarine defense with simultaneous use of ship and aircraft detection and destruction. Developing this direction, the Japanese began to build helicopter destroyers, who began to play the role of leaders of anti-submarine formations. The first of them, Haruna, was put into operation in 1973. Like the Huey of the same type, it had a displacement of 6900 and represented a completely traditional destroyer of those times. With one exception - almost from the mid-section to the rear of the stern, there was an extensive landing area with a hangar for three HHS-2B Sea King anti-submarine helicopters, which were later replaced by three SH-60J Seahawk helicopters.

Helicopter destroyer "Sirane"

The experience of using Haruna-class destroyers has confirmed their high efficiency. Therefore, a second pair of ships of this subclass was built - of the type “Sirane”. Architecturally, they repeated their prototypes, only had a slightly larger size, and their full displacement grew to 7200 t.

In the late 90's. of the last century - the beginning of the 2000s The naval self-defense forces were replenished with three landing ships-docks (DKD) of the Osumi type with a total displacement of 14 tons and a 000-knot speed. They are designed for the transport by sea of ​​22 troops, 320 tanks Type 90 or 1400 tons of military cargo. Landing on an unequipped shore is possible with the help of two LCAC air cushion landing boats on board the DCD and two transport helicopters CH-47J, for which, however, the hangar is not even equipped.

On the other hand, for the first time in post-war Japan, these “paratroopers” received a carrier-free, smooth upper deck with an “island” on starboard, which facilitates the placement and maintenance of helicopters under heavy use.

Osumi Landing Ship Dock

Designers of helicopter destroyers adopted this design when creating the next pair of anti-submarine ships, which were intended to replace outdated destroyers of the Harun type. Thus, the destroyers-helicopter carriers “Hyuga” (DDH-181) and “Ise” (DDH-182) appeared in the Japanese fleet. Their full displacement is 19 000 t, length is 197 m, width is 33 m. They are able to carry up to 11 helicopters SH-60K and MHC-101.

In addition to helicopters, they have a fairly extensive arsenal of naval means of defense and striking submarines: the Evolved Sea Sparrow SAM and ASROC anti-submarine missiles in vertical Mk-41 launchers, two six-barrel 20-mm Phalanx artillery, two three-tube 324-guns torpedo tubes for firing anti-submarine torpedoes.

"Izumo" park to the extension wall

And now it was the turn of even larger ships, which will be replaced by destroyers of the Sirane type in the United States. They differ from the type of ships "Hyuga". And not only a large displacement, but also the nature of the tasks and weapons, which is limited only by means of self-defense. Two short-range SAM radar missile systems and two Phalanx artillery systems are all means of protection intended only to repel attacks of enemy cruise missiles in the near frontier. But the helicopter fleet increased to 14 units. In peacetime, it will consist of 9-11 vehicles: X-NUMX anti-submarine engines SH-7K, two rescue vehicles and two more minesweeper helicopters MHC-60. But these “destroyers” will also be able to receive transport helicopters to transfer army units to the shore, as mentioned above - 101 military personnel and up to 400 vehicles with a payload of 50 tons each.

In other words, universal helicopter carriers have been created in Japan capable of participating in anti-submarine, anti-mine and amphibious operations. They have high speed (maximum speed - 30 nodes, which is provided by the gas turbine installation under the scheme COGAG) and maneuverability. At the same time, Japanese officials say that these ships are designed to "protect borders, ensure humanitarian operations and eliminate the consequences of natural disasters." Yes, these "destroyers" can be used for such missions, but they are not priorities. We must pay tribute to: built "Izumo"in record time, which can only envy. From the bookmark to the presentation, that is, the official launch, passed less than three years.

But once again: these ships do not pull on the role of aircraft carriers, although they demonstrate the ability of the industry of the Land of the Rising Sun to build floating airfields. But do aircraft carriers need Japan? It seems that the time of these ocean giants passes.

New means of warfare at sea appear: anti-ship ballistic missiles, long-range hypersonic missiles, directional energy weapons and others. That is why, and not only because of the need to cut budget spending, the United States plans to reduce its carrier fleet. In the future, aircraft carriers, of course, will remain in the fleets. But what will be their appearance, while it is difficult to predict. One thing is clear: they must become universal, capable of fulfilling the tasks of controlling the sea, of staff, anti-submarine, and amphibious assault ships. And the appearance of the destroyer helicopter carrier "Izumo" - the movement in this direction.

And further. The Japanese are prone to all sorts of characters and hints. This fully applies to Izumo. Both the project of the ship, its name, and the time of the ceremony were not chosen by chance, but are a kind of encrypted messages "hail and peace." The 22 DDH project means that the helicopter carrier was laid in 2010, the 22 year of the reign of Japanese Emperor Akihito. Like, we remember the samurai traditions and honor the leaders. Nothing is forgotten.

The presentation took place on 6 August - the day of the 68 anniversary of the atomic bombing of Hiroshima. And although any intent in this coincidence is categorically denied, this, of course, is not accidental. Vice Prime Minister Taro Aso and Secretary General of the ruling Liberal Democratic Party, Sigheru Ishiba, that is, people from the first political line, took part in the magnificent presentation ceremony. Tokyo makes it clear to its senior partner that the Land of the Rising Sun has revived.

Of course, today in the face of the Chinese military threat and the challenges of North Korea, as well as the sanctions confrontation with Russia, Japan and the United States are doomed to be allies, but who knows what is happening in the minds and souls of the samurai heirs? Especially in light of recent statements by Prime Minister Shinzo Abe (at the beginning of the article). All the more unpleasant for Russia is the name of the entire project of these helicopter carriers, and the fact that this name was first removed from dusty archives since the Second World War.

Izumo Project

The name of the ship "Izumo", at first glance, is neutral, since it only means historical the name of one of the provinces is Izumo, which as an administrative entity has not existed for a long time. However, it is no coincidence that not one ship of the Naval Self-Defense Forces after the Second World War was given this name. It is too memorable, and not a good word. This was the name of the Imperial Navy armored cruiser, built by the British company Armstrong Whitworth in 1900.

He was one of the first and best ships of this subclass, which occupied an intermediate position between the squadron battleships widespread at that time and the armored cruisers. He had a fairly strong booking and powerful artillery, consisting of four 203-mm cannons, fourteen 152-mm and twenty small caliber guns.

As you might guess, Izumo was the first to take an active part in the Russian-Japanese war of the 1904-1905. He was the flagship of Vice Admiral Kamimura Hikonodze, who commanded the 2 fleet of the Land of the Rising Sun. The Izumo cruiser in August 1904 led the battle with the Vladivostok squad of Russian fleet cruisers, during which the cruiser Rurik was sunk and after which the Russia and Thundercruisers were forced to stop the raids on Japanese maritime communications. Here it is in the photo:

"Izumo" first

In that battle, Izumo received 20 hits of Russian shells, but Krupp armor securely protected the ship. Damage and loss were minor (two killed and 17 injured). The cruiser also participated in the famous Tsushima battle in May 1905. In it he received 12 hits (3 was killed and 27 people were injured). But then the Russian fleet paid a much higher price for its defeat.

The military fate of the first "Izumo" was surprisingly long. During the First World War, he chased German cruisers, but without success, reached the Mediterranean, where he escorted Entente transports. He recalled himself again in 1937, when Japan launched aggression against China. Izumo became the flagship of the 3 fleet operating against this country. And 8 December 1941, when Japanese planes bombed Pearl Harbor, Izumo in the port of Shanghai treacherously opened fire on a small British gunboat Peterel and a similarly small American Wake. The forces were unequal. Peterel went to the bottom, and Wake was forced to surrender. But the Americans avenged their shame. 24 July 1946. The aircraft from the US Navy aircraft carriers finally sank Izumo near Kure.

In other words, the name "Izumo" encoded the message to Russia, China and the United States. There is an unequivocal hint at the former power of imperial Japan and at the same time its possible revival. After all, from the possession of nuclear missiles Tokyo is just a step away. It is enough to revise several articles of the constitution of this country so that this step is taken.

As we see from the beginning of the article, this step has been taken. Most of the information about Izumo is taken from articles almost two years ago. Considering the current situation, it becomes clear that Japan has taken a long course towards strengthening the Navy.

In addition to the Kuril Islands, there is also the Arctic and Fr. Wrangel. By the way, there is no mention in the Russian version of Wikipedia that, according to some people in the US Department of State, Wrangel Island is the territory of the United States. It got to the point that there were demands for the US government to investigate the creation of the USSR by the GULAG camp in the US (here: http://www.statedepartmentwatch.org/GulagWrangell.htm).

Well, besides, the agreement on the sea border between the USSR and the USA (USA / USSR Maritime Boundary) has not yet been approved by the State Duma of the Russian Federation. And there are many controversial issues (created, by the way, by 1990 in the year by Foreign Minister E. Shevardnadze) - and the section of the Bering Strait, and the issues of the passage of ships and fishing, etc. Especially since the question is about the depths.

Here is a map, where the questions of concessions to the United States and Russia by the very same persons in the Senate to the US government are highlighted in color. The following is an English summary of the utility of. Wrangel as part of Alaska (!) For the United States. In addition, there is a whole movement to draw attention to the problem of. Wrangel, the Arctic territories of Alaska and the maritime boundary in the Arctic in the United States.

The essence of the claims of the American public is highlighted in red

"This is a new line-up of the X-Menum Seabeds." The amount of squares of the squares. (See shaded area of ​​map.) There is no quid pro quo for the American public or the State of Alaska. These seabeds are rich in oil, gas, fisheries, and other resources worth billions of dollars. The oil and gas potential is measured in the billions of barrels. The fisheries are in the country. The military strategic locations of the Arctic and Bering areas is obvious. It’s not a problem.

As you understand, in the case of claims from Japan to Russia and from the United States to Russia, the likelihood of a joint performance of the fleets of the two countries is more than high. Therefore, we (Russia) all the more need Mistrals, and it is on the Pacific Fleet. In the Pacific region, Russia is one of the largest players with a rapidly aging obsolete fleet (not yet weak, but already approaching this line).

Sources:
http://ajw.asahi.com
http://flot.com
http://www.statedepartmentwatch.org/AlaskaGiveaway.htm
http://www.nationaldefense.ru/)
http://www.statedepartmentwatch.org/FactSheet.htm

Comments

[Sergey Sitnikov]

concentrating enemy orders, warrants, squadrons will be an excellent target for tactical nuclear weapons!

[Evgen4ik]

I agree, we need helicopter carriers. And in the Pacific Fleet, and in the Baltic and the Black Sea. But we need more destroyers. Frigates are, of course, good, but now we do not have powerful ocean ships that are able to provide cover for the same helicopter carriers.
So we conclude. In any case, Russia is the winner !!!

[Ataman]

I did not understand the author, why are Mistral against Japan needed? From Vladivostok to Tokyo, 1000 km. All of Japan is in the area of ​​the Air Force. Are we going to land troops from Mistral and capture 127 million Japanese?
Highways are needed for the transfer of troops over long distances. They can be adapted to carry out any peacekeeping missions, if Russia is going to get involved in such.

[Varyag_1973]

For Ataman. Similarly, the author of the article wrote a lot of text, but absolutely did not substantiate the title of his article: WHAT FOR US NEED "MISTRALS" ?! What will they do at the Pacific Fleet ?! What kind of troops and where will they land ?! Are we really going to take California by storm or maybe Tokyo ?! In my opinion, "Caliber" will cope much better than any "Mistral", and we have enough of our own territories, we don't need someone else's! Or someone seriously thinks to land troops on the Japanese islands ?!

[yehat]

300 thousand polite tourists ...

[Flooding]

Quote: Ataman

I did not understand the author, why are Mistral against Japan needed? From Vladivostok to Tokyo, 1000 km. All of Japan is in the area of ​​the Air Force. Are we going to land troops from Mistral and capture 127 million Japanese?

Perhaps in order to ensure promptness in upholding interests on islands that the Japanese consider theirs?

[shtanko.49]

Instead of the Mistral, make the islands such unsinkable cruisers and aircraft carriers that they will solve all the problems in the area.

[zavesa01]

So it was once.

[Konst99]

it’s easier to evacuate all of our civilians from there and roll out any Japanese troops with Iskander.

[fif21]

Quote: Ataman

Highways are needed for the transfer of troops over long distances. They can be adapted to carry out any peacekeeping missions, if Russia is going to get involved in such.

Can i adapt for transportation of wood, grain, metal. And in maintenance, these galoshes are very whimsical like all foreign cars, and fuel needs SPECIAL. Their minuscule benefits, and there are a lot of bunts.

[Wedmak]

and fuel need SPECIAL

What special? With the invention of the diesel engine, all ships in the solarium work.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: Wedmak

Which special?

Rumor has it that the Mistral is very demanding on fuel quality, and is unlikely to work on our solarium. How grounded are the rumors - I do not know.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: Ingvar 72

Rumor has it that the Mistral is very demanding on fuel quality, and is unlikely to work on our solarium. How grounded are the rumors - I do not know.

These are rumors. In St. Petersburg, the Mistral was fueled with our fuel.
Yes, and diesels "Vyartsilya" at the Pacific Fleet are well known - they are on the same "Fotiya Krylov" (Finnish-built ACC).

[donavi49]

Well, it’s past maintenance, like a Tugboat with Vartsila, and they learned how to repair Vartsila with their own forces even in Kamchatka.

Plus, there are constructively 240 days in the campaign for the year. The main thing is not to put on a raid and not to knock out a resource like with Krechetami.

[WKS]

Quote: fif21

Quote: Ataman

Highways are needed for the transfer of troops over long distances. They can be adapted to carry out any peacekeeping missions, if Russia is going to get involved in such.

Can i adapt for transportation of wood, grain, metal. And in maintenance, these galoshes are very whimsical like all foreign cars, and fuel needs SPECIAL. Their minuscule benefits, and there are a lot of bunts.

It would be necessary for the French to return the money even without penalties, otherwise they would change their minds.

[Bayonet]

Quote: fif21

and fuel need SPECIAL.

Speculation!

[GRAY]

Quote: Ataman

. Are we going to land troops from Mistral and capture 127 million Japanese?

No, we are going to quickly deploy bases and strongholds on the islands.

[WKS]

Quote: Ataman

They can be adapted to carry out any peacekeeping missions, if Russia is going to get involved in such.

This "if" is very correct. In general, all these carriers are a sinkable thing, and at the same time they are also quickly drained. Only an airfield located on solid ground is unsinkable. All these things are good for the Japanese and only for a surprise attack without a preliminary declaration of war and against states like Mozambique. But it is inappropriate to use them against the Japanese. Japanese aggression is extinguished by two nuclear strikes on secondary cities. This was demonstrated by the United States in 1945.

[Fin]

Quote: Ataman

I did not understand the author, why are Mistral against Japan needed? From Vladivostok to Tokyo, 1000 km. All of Japan is in the area of ​​the Air Force. Are we going to land troops from Mistral and capture 127 million Japanese?

Reinforcements, ammunition to carry Iturup and Kunashir.

[3axap]

[quote = Ataman] I did not understand the author, why do we need Mistral against Japan? From Vladivostok to Tokyo, 1000 km. All of Japan is in the Air Force /
So maybe in order to cover their territories they are more needed. Sakhalin. Kuril Islands.

[Starley from the south]

I also did not understand why the Mistrals are needed? If we resist the danger from Japan, then the naval aviation, aircraft of the Tu-22M3 type, will better cope with this. Helicopter carriers are an easy and good target, especially not far from our shores. If the Japs are not completely stupid, then they are unlikely to use them against us. After all, in less than an hour our planes will send them to the bottom of the Pacific Ocean.

[starshina78]

I agree with the previous author! Helicopter carriers are needed, but in a slightly different incarnation, in which the Mistral is proposed. We have excellent experience - "Moscow" and "Leningrad". It is possible to combine two functions in our helicopter carriers - anti-submarine defense and amphibious functions, and at the same time the ship must have weapons that would provide for air defense and anti-submarine defense. And already the defense from surface ships and other threats should be carried out by escort ships. In the form in which the Mistral is proposed, it will require a large security group, but we “, alas, do not have one. So we need to build destroyers, TFR and BOD, and only then helicopter carriers and aircraft carriers.

[Wheel]

Quote: Evgen4ik

I agree, we need helicopter carriers. And in the Pacific Fleet, and in the Baltic and the Black Sea. But we need more destroyers. Frigates are, of course, good, but now we do not have powerful ocean ships that are able to provide cover for the same helicopter carriers.

In fact, we need powerful aviation in the Far East and Chukotka and powerful garrisons in the Kuril Islands.
About Wrangel Island - I can only imagine how Americans with yapes drive aircraft carriers with helicopter carriers there without ice-class ships.

Mistrals in the form that is still theoretically taking place are simply expensive toys that are not able to solve any problems in relation to a more or less serious opponent. And the point is not even in their quality, but in a banal quantity.
To land a decent landing on the Japanese islands, you need not 4, and even less than two pepelats, but at least 50 pieces.

And a lyrical digression regarding Yuser's claims to Wrangel Island.
I am extremely skeptical of the possibilities of military operations in the Arctic from the side of the democracy’s hotbed. Eggs frozen to the diaper tend to lower morale (already not very high) Yankees below the waterline.
Moreover, bombing someone there during the Stone Age is very problematic, due to the absence of objects of gossip.

Therefore, the article is a minus.

[alexey garbuz]

Why the hell are we a vessel for which 6 points of excitement are already critical. Let the money be returned with penalties for late commissioning.

[siberalt]

Dm. Rogozin spoke about the "Mistrals" - we can take "Mistrals", we can use money up to a penny. But the second option is better. And what is he wrong about?

[Varyag_1973]

I agree with Rogozin, we need money now more than these troughs! We need a TARKR of the "Peter the Great" type much more. this is a unique ship capable of destroying at least "Izumo", even "Nimitz", even though all their ships combined! Why do we need a trough, with a speed of 15 knots and a temperature limit? On what Pacific Fleet is the author of the article going to use them if he is rolling in relatively calm waters near Saint-Nazaire ?! Do you think with such a pitching that at least one helicopter can take off from the Pacific Ocean ?! For each "Mistral" you need a whole escort order, and this is for a second 5-6 ships and a couple of submarines !!!

Maybe I'm wrong, I do not claim to be the truth, I just express my personal opinion, correct me, only the facts please!

[Vasily Ivashov]

The navy has always existed to protect its own ports and to protect trade routes. Nowadays, this is added to the protection of the economic interests of their own companies in other countries, mainly in the third world countries, where armed struggle is always washing out, therefore there is a need to deliver their means and equipment to such a theater of military operations. For such purposes ships of the Mistral type are quite suitable.

[donavi49]

Our BDK including those under construction go slower Mistral and significantly on the economic course (10-12 against 16) and slower or also at maximum speed (17-18 against 18).

Appointment to the Kuril Islands is easy.

Introductory The Japanese landed on Shumsha - heavy fighting is needed, urgent reinforcements are needed or the island is lost, the landing is landed on Kunashir - reinforcements are needed, the navigable bay and exits suitable for the BDK are mined by Japanese submarines (a breakthrough is possible only on chamois boats / small boats). A strong storm between the Kuril Islands and Sakhalin makes it impossible to transfer reinforcements by helicopters and to transfer helicopters to the islands.

Your actions? The United States officially announced its entry into the war in the event of a conflict in the territory of island Japan or the use of WMD.

[Varyag_1973]

For donavi49. Any amphibious operation is a very complicated process! The Yapam themselves will have to overcome great difficulties in order to land troops on any of our islands! Do you think the Pacific Fleet will stand and watch as the Yapi troops land ?! Any ship, especially a large one, is an excellent target for "Granit" and "Mosquito", and ours will not even have to leave the bays, especially when the "Caliber" goes into service! Counteraction to the enemy landing is not only ships of the fleet, but also aviation! Placing mines around our island is not easy either! It's easier to land a trooper from an airplane than from a UDC!

[donavi49]

Well, here the Japanese from Hokkaido have a fishing schooner for landing reinforcements and a helicopter will do. Break through from Sakhalin even in the weather, not to mention the distance at times more difficult.

Granites in Kamchatka, Mosquitoes 90km range for low altitude and 200 range for mixed (but what kind of congo does it split in) and this must be included in combat combat with the Navy, plus bases are needed, for many RTOs it is Sakhalin with bad weather conditions. Mosquito carries 1 destroyer Pacific Fleet - Fast. The rest are undergoing repair due to the fact that the pipes burst and the boilers need to be replaced with pipes.

The Varangian is also alone. The BOD does not have striking means (shooting with Rastrub-B at the BNK is possible, but this is the target of the P-15 level without M).

Ships with a caliber will not be there for another 10 years, unfortunately. Bastion-P is not Caliber. And again, without normal support, he will not fight for a long time. Although he will collect his harvest.

[mike_z]

I completely agree with this. The picture is not very bright.

[Seaman77]

Quote: Varyag_1973

For donavi49. Any amphibious operation is a very complicated process! The Yapam themselves will have to overcome great difficulties in order to land troops on any of our islands! Do you think the Pacific Fleet will stand and watch as the Yapi troops land ?! Any ship, especially a large one, is an excellent target for "Granit" and "Mosquito", and ours will not even have to leave the bays, especially when the "Caliber" goes into service! Counteraction to the enemy landing is not only ships of the fleet, but also aviation! Placing mines around our island is not easy either! It's easier to land a trooper from an airplane than from a UDC!

I agree completely! The landing operation is a very complicated process! However, in 1943, despite the German opposition, my great-grandfather, being the commander of a sea hunter, transported paratroopers and supplies to Malaya Zemlya from February to September and took back wounded soldiers. And he did it very successfully.

[saag]

Quote: donavi49

exits suitable for BDK are mined by submarines of Japan

In this case, for Japanese submarines, since they appeared there, the Mistral is just a wonderful target

[Seaman77]

=== At which Pacific Fleet the author of the article is going to use them if he has pitching in relatively calm waters near Saint-Nazaire?! ===

I’ll tell you a secret, if you don’t become a lag to the wave, but bring it to your nose with a heading angle of 10-20 degrees, then it won’t swing!
verified. :)))

[pilot8878]

And the country initiating the nuclear strike -

Quote: Sergey Sitnikov

perfect target for

strategic nuclear weapons!
Why not get by with weapons that do not destroy the entire planet? Do not create your own superiority in conventional weapons?

[Denis fj]

I do not argue about the need or not the need for the Mistrals of Russia. But the author is somewhat unaware. Vladivostok port DOES NOT FREEZE. After the construction of a thermal power station in the early 60s, the Golden Horn Bay became frost-free. The Eastern Bosphorus Strait, if it freezes in especially severe frosts, then port icebreakers are enough for passage. In addition, near Vladivostok there are places of protected anchorage, which never freeze at all.

[Denis fj]

"Mistrals" are the long arm of the fleet not intended for defense, and especially for Russia, which has no intention of colonizing anyone, and even in peacetime. This long arm is only suitable in case of a big war. Therefore, if these very minus 7 degrees turn out to be a duck , then their only application will be found only in one case - in Alaska. The transit time is small, the landing is decent and is quite capable of crushing the American coast guard and seizing a vast foothold with the subsequent delivery of any equipment and missiles. This will at once remove the threat to the western border of Russia, eliminating the historical injustice in the sale of Alaska, as well as any threats from the the future. The world will return to NORMAL state.

[Basarev]

In general, this is all pampering. Here was the Eaglet - and there was order in the sea landing. But because of the damned Yeltsin region such a ship was lost ...

[gav6757]

Shevarnadze, together with Yakovlek and Gorbachev, were ready to give everything to mattresses, and then drunk Yolkin also helped to sell our land ...
Is this why our grandfathers shed blood? You can’t give an inch of land, Russia should only grow in different ways!

[TECHNOLOGY]

Mistrals, how many copies were broken on the site! The main half of those present were behind the Mistrals, and pressed minus a little of the rest. Now, the former support group of the Mistrals sharply pulled over to the side of those who half a year ago, they fumbled a year ago. What are the problems, "specialists"? Gingerbread was not given enough? A year ago, you were told about the indecency of this trough in the Russian Navy. Back in 2011, it was proposed to place an order at South Korean shipyards for the construction of 3 helicopter carriers of Korean design! Thought drowned on the sidelines of the MO. When it was posted on the site, it bloomed with red paints! On the site there are a couple of dozen smart guys. The rest are from the relatives of the "hat-haters" !.

[Dart2027]

Quote: TECHNAR

Back in 2011, it was proposed to place an order for the construction of 3 helicopter carriers of Korean design at South Korean shipyards

Are you sure that they would be given to us?

[TECHNOLOGY]

We have fairly normal relations with Korea. They are building at least a tanker fleet for us. And as far as I know, they have not joined the sanctions. And in Korea, at the moment, the most powerful shipyards in the World. They can (and are building) tankers with a deadweight of up to 350 thousand tons. And they will help us with the construction of something similar on the Far East. The agreement is signed.

[Dart2027]

Perhaps, but Korea is very closely connected with the United States, and here many questions may arise.

[Dinko]

Judging by what our Tofovsky sailors say, they will do well if something happens without such junk as the Mistral.

[sub307]

Exactly: "... our sailors from Tofov say ...", and our "couch strategists-theoreticians" "do not feed" bread ", but let one more time" beg "Temka -" are needed, unnecessary ".

[Alexey RA]

Uh-huh ... that's just among these sailors-specialists, for example, the former KomTOF, in which the ship composition of the fleet was reduced as after a big war. And the best ships of the auxiliary fleet suddenly found themselves abroad, leased for a penny on enslaving terms. "Photius Krylov" was scratched back 15 years.

[fax66]

I have not seen a single opinion that would boil down to the fact that we do not need helicopter carriers / landing bases (like new nuclear submarines, cruisers, etc.). Opinions are divided only on whether we need the Mistrals (which are not intended for operations in northern latitudes).
Who is the author and why is he persuading ???

[Per se.]

Naturally, Russia, as a great country, cannot do without a strong fleet. Yes, Japan's naval power is increasing (as, indeed, of our other neighbors and "partners"). And the problem is not in the Mistrals, for which we have already paid, and which the French do not give us, but why and how Russia has sunk to the point that our fleet is so weak, why our shipbuilding has weakened so much ... Why did we order these "Mistrals" from a potential enemy, a NATO member, and why did they choose the French UDC? Indeed, we do not need to be persuaded, the majority here are for a strong Russian fleet, I would like to hear who exactly is to blame for the wrecking decisions in the fate of the fleet and shipbuilding, and what prospects do we have in building our own UDC, or urgently ordering ships from reliable partners.

[mike_z]

Quote: Per se.

I would like to hear who exactly is to blame for the wrecking decisions in the fate of the fleet and shipbuilding

I think we will not hear that. We will not hear what we know. A sort of secret. And that's why we fidget on the spot that we will never recognize the names of mediocrity who make strategic decisions.

[41 REGION]

refusal to create armed forces.

What is the failure? About 5 years ago I saw the teachings of the coast guard of Japan - 56 six helicopters practiced joint flights to Hokkaido. Japan has long had an army only called differently

[Moore]

Impressive ... I think with my profane opinion, with such a development of events, the Mistrals will not make the weather ...
Aviation + coastal defense (artillery and coastal missile systems)? All of them, these airborne destroyers, you must drown, but will it be difficult to strengthen the group in the mess that will begin?

[Krsk]

I can’t understand with these Mistrals tattered .. then you don’t need it ... Yeah, as soon as Japan creates an army, then the first to attack it is us ... and we don’t have to stop them and you don’t have Mistrals what will be ... ay yay yay bida pichalka as soon as the captain on any of these ships that is pictured appear in terrestrial waters he will immediately have the thought: well, why am I here ... and in good terms, even terter will not reach ..

[Shmel-pchel]

The mains in the version in which they were ordered and built are tankers, timber trucks but not warships. Samotopot! Thank you Serdyukov! Yes, and what can you expect from the enemy? We need to build ourselves. I don’t think the Japs are so brainless to attack a nuclear power. Immediately Khan! And especially not have to spend money

[core]

depending on what power will be in the country, maybe the leberasty, we will raise the island's legs, and the Americans will grab Sakhalin, sort of for the safety of their citizens working on Sakhalin. to use nuclear weapons, "eggs" are needed both from the commander in chief and the operator of the launcher.

[donavi49]

Yah? The mass of regional conflicts in the world where WMD is not used. Right now, the Chinese and Japanese for the butting islands have already fired at each other both with water guns and with real guns over the masts. AND? Both sides are determined to defend their own. China is building jump bases for the Air Force in order to gain air supremacy in a future war, Japan is moving South F-15 and its F-16 + 4 Burke clones to the south;

The United States spoke out - that this is a border incident, China must seek its peaceful path, the United States has an agreement with Japan, but it does not apply to border disputes.

Above, I wrote an introduction to the Kuril Islands identical to the current situation with the China-Japan conflict, if it develops into a hot phase.

[fif21]

Not convinced! I didn't scare you. The Mistrals are landing ships, and Russia will not be the first to attack.

[donavi49]

Brothers border guards die on the islands, garrisons without reinforcements fight surrounded. Urgent tactical attacks by helicopters and reinforcements needed. The islands are blocked and all bays / beaches capable of receiving equipment not controlled by the Japanese are mined from submarines. Bad weather (which has not been possible to fly from Sakhalin to the Kuril Islands for six months) interferes with direct helicopter transfers and light aircraft. ILs do not have sufficient stability due to the high-altitude control of the Berks located at a distance.

What is your option? Immerse in VARIAG DIVISION AND LUCK? Landing ships are not needed.

[avt]

Quote: donavi49

What is your option? Immerse in VARIAG DIVISION AND LUCK? Landing ships are not needed.

YES ! On Daeeeee! Heroically, we’ll take it from cruisers. And to land the boats, the boats will warm up, the guys will be warm, and they won’t be visible - they are wooden, stealth however. And if greedy Frenchmen still give the ships instead of money - to drown this muck publicly in Okiyan this Serdyukov legacy is not needed they are to us! Not needed! LYes not to wait at all - just drown right now in Saint-Nazaire! Both! We have the right - paid!

Quote: Varyag_1973

I agree with Rogozin, we need money now more than these troughs! We need a TARKR of the "Peter the Great" type much more. this is a unique ship capable of destroying at least "Izumo", even "Nimitz", even though all their ships combined!

And just like the cruiser Krasny Krym, which the naval wits called a landing cruiser, and Krasny Kavkaz, some tactical landing force will be landing in the Patriotic War! In general - Semiuuundra, Yeah! Well, not really - if they could go to the Patriotic War - then now, yes, with the Japs, but in a nuclear reactor, and at least into orbit on "Petra", we will launch a battalion with heavy equipment, and if instead of "Mistrals" the money is returned with percentage - vaasche according to the behests of the LADIES - we will pay and the Japs, or whoever is there, for such loot they themselves will take, but at least the same US! What? When the marines landed in ports 38 parallel in 45m, they gave the amer a tank landing ship and minesweepers, but the first wave on Soviet torpedo boats landed. Topiiiit! To drown the Mistral !!!

[Alexey RA]

Quote: avt

And just like the cruiser Krasny Krym, which the naval wits called a landing cruiser, and Krasny Kavkaz, some tactical landing force will be landing in the Patriotic War!

Was KyrKav a "landing cruiser"? Especially after Feodosia, when he landed troops directly in the port occupied by the enemy, receiving in response from everything that was on the shore - from guns to mortars and machine guns. Zeebrugge # 2.
If it were not for the heroic crew of the second turret, which extinguished the fire in the fighting compartment after breaking through the turret armor (20-25 mm - as on a light tank), the KyrKav would have remained there.

[avt]

Quote: Alexey RA

Was KyrKav a "landing cruiser"?

He was, under the command of Gushchin, he was really heroic, but somehow “Krasny Krym” was driven more like and this nickname was only heard in relation to him.

Quote: Alexey RA

If it were not for the heroic crew of the second turret, which extinguished the fire in the fighting compartment after breaking through the turret armor (20-25 mm - as on a light tank), the KyrKav would have remained there.

Yes, in my life I had a chance to communicate with the foreman who served on him at that time.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: avt

He was, under the command of Gushchin, he was really heroic, but somehow “Krasny Krym” was driven more like and this nickname was only heard in relation to him.

It was believed that the "KyrKav", as a new KR, the command tried to protect. Although it was the same "Svetlana-Black Sea", only with MK-1-180 turrets.
"First pancake ..."

[avt]

Quote: Alexey RA

It was believed that the "KyrKav", as a new KR, the command tried to protect.

They really took care of the 26s and Molotov in particular, and these people carried the whole war on themselves, like Chervonka, if only after the appearance of the scout in Sevastopol, she changed her position - you look and the ship would have survived.

[Alexey RA]

Quote: avt

They really took care of the 26th and Molotov in particular, and these people took the whole war on themselves.

Judging by the history of the service - not particularly 26 and 26 bis and cherished. In the same way, both fled to Sevastopol with goods, fired from the bays of Seva, fired at the ports occupied by the Germans and supported the landing.

If they were cherished, they would not have received such damage:
"Molotov" caught a torpedo in the stern, after which he had to carry out a stern transplant from "Frunze" in unsanitary conditions with a crooked rusty knife - in a half-dock, without a normal SRH.
"Voroshilov" first caught 2 bombs in Novorossiysk (900 tons of water, yok steering), and a year later - 2 mines near Fidonisi.

Quote: avt

"Chervonka", if only after the appearance of the scout in Sevastopol, she changed her position - you look and the ship would have survived.

Well, yes, "KyrKyr" survived in the same conditions.
On the "Ukraine", EMNIP, in that arrival in Sevastopol, the commander was just changing on the ship. So we got it - seven nannies ...

[Dimsanych]

There was already one wise guy who opposed Russia in the 20th century ... Everyone knows how it ended. And the Japanese all the more tasteful. They themselves are like an atomic bomb, they are not even bombed inappropriately, they will wash off a couple of nuclear power plants and calm down

[avvg]

I read the article, thanks to the author! 5+ I think that in Japan, according to Article 9 of the Constitution, they did not have armed forces, but they increased their military potential every year. And what did we do in the 90s? destroyed, considered only friends around. The country was led by "Enemy or ...." (by the way, we are still installing monuments to them). Now we understand that Russia can only deal with its military forces, will ensure its security and sovereignty. "RUSSIA has two allies: its army and navy - ALEXANDER THIRD"

[Wolka]

a good historical digression of the problem and its modern development, to the author plus ...

[Velizariy]

Quote: fif21

Not convinced! I didn't scare you. The Mistrals are landing ships, and Russia will not be the first to attack.

Quote: fif21

Not convinced! I didn't scare you. The Mistrals are landing ships, and Russia will not be the first to attack.

You can land a landing without attacking first, but you can also preempt.

[fif21]

Quote: Velizariy

You can land a landing without attacking first

Do you seriously think that Japan or the United States will start a war with Russia in the east? Not having land borders with us! Now my friend is not 1905.

[Gardamir]

I think the author thinks in terms of the middle of the 20th century. This is the first. And secondly, can Russia not produce landing ships?

[Seaman77]

Quote: Gardamir

I think the author thinks in terms of the middle of the 20th century. This is the first. And secondly, can Russia not produce landing ships?

Theoretically, Russia can produce everything. But practically, unfortunately, no. How many years = Ivan Gern = cannot finish building! : (((

[89067359490]

Here you can’t do with Mistrals alone. It is necessary to strengthen the entire fleet, including full-fledged aircraft carriers.

[Dzhanych]

Quote: Shmel-pchel

The mains in the version in which they were ordered and built are tankers, timber trucks but not warships. Samotopot! Thank you Serdyukov!

I agree 100% Money down the drain!
http://topwar.ru/11079-zapadnyy-vete...a-mistral.html

[ALABAY45]

"Therefore, we (Russia) all the more need Mistrals, and it is at the Pacific Fleet"
Not a sailor himself, please clarify ... If the Mistrals are landing ships, then in the event of a conflict they will most likely perform their tasks in Kyushu and Hokkaido? That is, their appearance at the Pacific Fleet is a kind of horror story? Thanks in advance. Mossy tanker ...

[mike_z]

Mistrals can now be used more as control ships. In principle, there is something to deliver to the Japanese Islands with some unpleasant thing and other means of delivery. I am sure that the destroyer class surface ships, the cruiser in this situation is more necessary for us.

[taseka]

IN MY CONSIDERATION, this blackmail by the Mistrals of Russia is already tired of the procedure - international arbitration and drive money + forfeit in full and then they will howl and run the Bulgarians and ask us to take our own boats, and we think, we decide , weighed, it seems unreasonable, and the price must be X% off 30 !!!

[Mikhail m]

Given that the operation of the Mistrals is impossible without the technical support of one of the NATO countries, the question of their necessity disappears by itself.

[svp67]

includes 4 (four) aircraft carrier (helicopter) ships, not including landing docks (8 ships: 4 Osumi type (+1 under construction), 1 Atsumi type, 1 Miura type, 2 Yura type )

Yes, and what will ONE "Vladivostok" be able to oppose? We are thrown from one extreme to another, then we need Mistrals, have ordered, but now we don’t know if they are needed ... I think they are still needed, at least to assess the quality of such ships, and most importantly, this is a ready-made ship , which can very quickly become operational.

[Ivanhoe]

Germany until 1935 officially had army restrictions

[naGua]

An excellent article, written wisely, with a good historical perspective, I read it with great pleasure, however ... The class of ships to which the long-suffering "Mistral" belongs to the tasks of an expeditionary nature. Japan shares a border with Russia and is within the reach of existing means of engaging the enemy and delivering troops. Initially, such a class was developed to appease the "rebellious Zulu and Papuan tribes" in remote regions of the planet. By and large, it is a box carrying helicopters, which operates as part of a strike group. In my opinion, it is better to invest funds in the reconstruction and construction of aircraft-carrying ships or destroyers of a new generation, as well as to continue the program for the construction of submarines of projects 955, 885. As for the Izumo, it has boats of the project 949 Antey with somewhat outdated, but by no means that have not lost their combat effectiveness "Granites", there is "Onyx", including on 855 boats, a salvo and only the bulb will float

[Ruswolf]

Perhaps the UDC of Russia is needed, but not what we did in France.
And most importantly for what?
USA - it’s clear that the state is isolated by two oceans. Japan is an island nation and has conducted all wars on the mainland with the help of the fleet and landing. But why and for what?
If I am not mistaken, when the Frunze TARK was commissioned in 1984 It really created a panic among the "neighbors". So it is necessary to build up the groupings of heavy ocean ships.
It is ridiculous to fight Japan with the help of the UDC (Laperuso Strait - 45 km, Treason Strait - 2 km), to the USA? - also funny. At the speed that the Mistral gives out, pulling a whole armada for cover?
I think that the existing BDK, KFOR and TDK could well cope with the landing operations.
Again, Russia's military doctrine is aimed at defending borders, and not at military aggression against other countries.
IMHO

[Dart2027]

Quote: Ruswolf

existing BDK, KFOR and TDK can fully cope

Whether they are twenty years younger, it’s possible.

[bmv04636]

And we will make a catamaran of them big such (Hochma)

[Krsk]

Quote: bmv04636

And we will make a catamaran such a big one (Hochma)

Yeah, let the stools pedal.

[Dangerous]

Great article! The Japanese throughout their history have tried to expand at the expense of China and the Russian islands. Apparently, something similar was conceived

[another RUSICH]

I remember the words from the movie "Love and Doves": what are they, adversaries, then they all climb to us?

[Ivan 63]

Looking at the map, every citizen will be given a miracle, how the Americans have become so mad. I am not surprised, I will not be surprised at all if tomorrow Any point or territory on the map of present-day Russia turns out to be smeared with the same paint - I am not talking about the territory of the former Union. I invite all of us to repent. To repent, but not in what liberals of all stripes impose on us, but in real crimes, namely: in the collapse of the summit of the Russian Empire - the USSR, in the eternal looking to the West and worshiping their false values, in disrespect for their history and, therefore, the betrayal of their ancestors - dancing on their graves and bones. where is the trial of those responsible for the collapse of the Union? Why are the fosterlings of liberalistic and other Russophobic trends still pouring dirt and lies on us from TV screens? do we need "such a democracy"?

[romashki74]

We need them - like a hare stop signal. We need much more money now!

[wild]

Nuyen ice class fleet. Since the northern country we are not like Krkruti. Well, customize the names for historical facts, the favorite pastime of the Alaramists of all countries, and consider the same claims and globes.

[VNP1958PVN]

How much can you push this bullshit. Died, so died. Let the French drive grandmas.

[Kalmar]

I didn’t understand from the article: well, why the Mistral? Landing in Japan? Laughter, you can’t get by with two boats. Protection of the Kuril Islands? Here we need a strike fleet capable of sinking enemy ships and solving air defense / missile defense tasks; Mistrals have no work here.

[Wedmak]

Not convincing. It is much easier and more efficient to deliver ground-based anti-ship missiles to the islands, covering them with an air defense system and marines.

[yurikh]

How much can you knead about these Mistrals? We take money and basta.

[Sibiryak13]

These troughs will not be useful to us. But to get a lot of money for them, but let them go to the defense industry, this is the case.

[Viktor Kudinov]

For the money that Mistral costs, you can produce or buy weapons on the world arms market that can effectively withstand the same helicopter-aircraft carrier potential of Japan.

[Sibiryak13]

Hey Moder, I don’t understand what this pissing sheet does for me, instead of the Soviet flag. I had nothing to do with the liquid industry.

[Sibiryak13]

Hey Moder, I don’t understand what this pissing sheet does for me, instead of the Soviet flag. I had nothing to do with the liquid industry.

[Sibiryak13]

Oh, the flag has changed. Is this a joke?

[Eggor]

Sevastopol December.

[Magic archer]

The fact that the Pacific Fleet needs to be strengthened is already clear. And the Mistrals alone cannot get rid of it. Both destroyers and frigates are needed. I was struck with
rock construction! In January 2012 laid and already in August 2013 launched !!! A ship of this size in just a year and a half. There is something to learn from them ....

[Wedmak]

In January, 2012 was laid, and already in August, 2013 was launched!

Given that the stern was built with us, it’s not so impressive. Just a parallelization of production. How many shipyards can we build blocks of this size? Count on the fingers. Moreover, the shipyards are already inundated with orders.

[Fantazer911]

I invite Alaska to hand over officially to the country of the rising sun hi themselves deal with America and in their own way

[Zaus]

An interesting story about Japanese boats, with photos If the author had a different name for the article, such as "Japanese Navy", it would be more honest. And so, inserted the scandalous Mistral into the name, so that more people would buy .... How ugly ..

[Bongo]

After reading the publication, I still do not understand how a Mistral-class UDC capable of transporting 450 marines will help us defeat a fairly strong Japanese fleet, many times superior to the Pacific Fleet? Isn't it better to build corvettes and submarines with these funds?

[mike_z]

Yes, in my opinion, no one has ever argued that ships of a class similar to the Mistrals of Russia are needed. Actually, we now need ships of all classes! For, as we have already noted, our fleet is rapidly becoming obsolete. This is indeed the case and its update is proceeding slower than we would like and slower than it happened in the 80s, when we received two destroyer-destroyers per year, and in each fleet! I mean projects 956 and 1155. Not counting the smaller ones (pr.1135 and others like him). Nobody should have the euphoria about renewing the fleet and its strength. In fact, the fleet was destroyed and now it is being restored. And this is not the same as updating. But the Mistrals !? Our shipbuilding is quite capable of building ships on its own, no worse. Better yet, they would have repaired and modernized the Mitrofan Moskalenko at the Northern Fleet and the Ivan Rogov at the Pacific Fleet. These are excellent paratroopers! But they killed, s ... ki, good ships, and now they are flapping their wings.

[donavi49]

After Crimea and refusal of Politeness in the territory of Nikolaev - you can forget about 1174, even if there were lobbyists, it is already technically impossible. There, the tubrins must be capitalized and changed - Zorya, by order of the government, stopped not only the shipment of new units (which depended on the 5 turbines of the frigates under construction = 3x11356 and 2x22350) and even ZIPping for repairs.

[mike_z]

Quote: donavi49

about 1174 you can forget

I know it. The reason is not only this. "Mitrofan" was plundered until long before the Maidan and Crimea. Themselves. Without the help of enemies. But what a ship it was!

[donavi49]

Not really he was a ship, but he was, unlike Ivan Tarava from papier mache. Back in the USSR, they began to prepare Rogov for cancellation.

If we talk about replacing them today, then we need a ship of the 071 or Masakar level. That is, with a large dock camera, with a large capacity of equipment, with a single flight deck, convenient for operating a helicopter group.

Its really 10 years and 500 + green money for asking 7-8 years and 500 green money.

As an option, you can buy for example 4 071 which will be ready next year (well with 2016 alterations) - this will pull about 300 lyamov per ship. The Chinese offer and build it for export in 3,5 of the year.

[mike_z]

Quote: donavi49

Not really he was a ship, but he was, unlike Ivan Tarava from papier mache. Back in the USSR, they began to prepare Rogov for cancellation.

And yet I disagree. Although I did not serve in the landing division, I know "Mitrofan" nearby. By now, it may have become outdated, but it was ruined - stupidly and ineptly - much earlier, when it was a steamer meeting the times. The dock chamber on it is quite voluminous, the equipment could be loaded - the brigade, the power plant - the gas turbine, what else is needed. Why papier-mâché? I do not know.

[donavi49]

Ivan Tarava - what I wanted, from Papier Masha (because it was possible to build it only on one slipway - where the Krechetes and either he or the aircraft carriers built), and Rogov - that they mastered the crafts in metal.

However, a critical flaw was laid in Ivan Tarawa, as practice showed, KTU. If they had built it, they would have repeated the fate of 956 and would have already cut it.

[mike_z]

Quote: donavi49

Not really he was a ship, but he was, unlike Ivan Tarava from papier mache. Back in the USSR, they began to prepare Rogov for cancellation.

And yet I disagree. Although I did not serve in the landing division, I know "Mitrofan" nearby. By now, it may have become outdated, but it was ruined - stupidly and ineptly - much earlier, when it was a steamer meeting the times. The dock chamber on it is quite voluminous, the equipment could be loaded - the brigade, the power plant - the gas turbine, what else is needed. Why papier-mâché? I do not know.

[kress42rus]

Mistral created for warm latitudes, they will not pull the north

[Alexey RA]

Original French - yes.
But for the Russian Federation "Mistrals" were built according to an adjusted design (including ice reinforcement) - that is why, by the way, they cost more than the head "French".

[Alexey Boukin]

Quote: Varyag_1973

we don’t need a stranger!

But we will not give up our own!

[Throw]

Why did the author insert the word "mistral" in the title?
To increase the rating and readability or what?

Then it is necessary to call the type "Landing" Armata "from" Mistral "with naval" Ratniks "or over-the-horizon wars of the future with hypersonic support of the S-500 and underwater ekranoplanes"

Minus)

[demel2]

Quote: donavi49

Introductory Japanese landed on Shumsha

What time of year is it? If it’s winter, then the Mistral with a base in Vladivostok will stay there because the Laperouse Strait is frozen, and the Japanese are unlikely to miss Sangarsky, so here’s your introductory. And think about whether you need Mistral to Pacific Fleet?

[41 REGION]

Quote: demel2

Quote: donavi49

Introductory Japanese landed on Shumsha

What time of year is it? If it’s winter, then the Mistral with a base in Vladivostok will stay there because the Laperouse Strait is frozen, and the Japanese are unlikely to miss Sangarsky, so here’s your introductory. And think about whether you need Mistral to Pacific Fleet?

The Japanese are suicides? what to do on shumsha in winter without summer training.? If only to freeze with a snowdrift

[Quantum]

One thing remains: to increase the output of nuclear submarines-killers of aircraft carriers!

[brother2]

Read the comments of the Ministry of Transport sailors are unsuitable for swimming in these latitudes, bearing in mind the Pacific Ocean and the Barents Sea. There remains the BALTIC and the Black Sea Fleet which, in the event of war and modern weapons, can be blocked in their bases. It is necessary to develop a submarine fleet with one missile and no misral. France they have the Mediterranean Sea and we don’t go there at once the straits will bang and they will be blocked and the base in Syria will not hold out for days in case of attacks by the American fleets and its satellite.

[ermak.sidorov]

I apologize for the shortsightedness, but it only now dawned on me why our fighters at an accelerated pace and in large quantities on Wrangel Island made snot freeze

The following is an English summary of utility about. Wrangel as parts of Alaska (!) For the United States.

as they say in the hostel: "Who is the first, that and the slippers"

[Prussian]

The most unpredictable is the future war at sea, judging by the shipbuilding programs at headquarters, they see it as a continuation of the American experience of the Second World War in the Pacific. But today no carrier group can compare with the capabilities of a full-fledged ground air force, remember the Falklands and this despite the fact that 70% percent of anti-ship missiles from the Argentines simply did not explode. After the first real clashes, all these masterpieces of shipbuilding can share the fate of the dreadnoughts, who suddenly became suitcases without a handle.

[Precious Fluids]

Since when did the "Prussians" begin to understand something about carrier-based aviation?
Argentina lost the Malvins, and the Soviet Navy could not have completed such an operation as the British then.

[Noncombatant]

Destroyer-helicopter carrier Hyuga. For the Russian eye and ear, I think the translator was lying. The letter "u" is missing.

[Zomanus]

Mistrals, if needed, are only as supply transports. Of course, as part of the escort. And so it is possible to stab Primorye and the Kuril Islands with missile systems so that if something happens, the entire Japanese fleet will have to be raised from the bottom of the sea in parts.

[Djusha]

It seems to me that the choice is quite simple
Or we will have Mistrals here and now. Or nothing. Firstly, hoping that the European courts will be favorable to us and we will get all the money back, and even with compensation, is very naive. At best, it will take a lot of years to get the full amount. Secondly, if we build something of our own, then, according to experts, it will take at least 8 years before our ship appears. And we need it now.
For those who doubt the need for landing ships. Just open the list of naval personnel of the Navy and see what types of large ships are in first place in terms of quantity. These are not destroyers or BODs, these are BDKs!
And they all work like bees. And in the “Syrian Express”, and in exercises and long-distance campaigns.
Only now they are all old. So we may soon be left with nothing.

[barakobamych]

But getting money for them and using it for the defense industry is a matter of course.

To the point

[Anatoly_1959]

In this region there is a huge and unsinkable aircraft carrier of Russia - its Far Eastern coast. Both Japan and Alaska are practically nearby for flights even by front-line aviation, not to mention missiles. Why is it necessary to drive a hulking, unarmed “cow” into a narrow space like the Bering Strait? For what purposes are helicopters needed? For landing? Where? We are not going to attack, but how can a coastal group with much smaller forces stand up for itself than the first-class fleet showed in the defense of Okhotsk from the British in the Crimean campaign (19th century). It is necessary to develop coastal defense, arranging long-range artillery positions, with today's ammunition almost not inferior to missiles, missiles themselves, and a mosquito fleet of missile boats and landing craft, such as a naval variety of hovercraft or wings, following the example of Iran in the Persian Gulf. I think with the money from the Mistrals it is quite possible to build a whole flotilla of small but deadly ships.

[Andy1111]

Both Japan and Alaska are practically nearby for even front-line aviation flights, not to mention missiles

Yes you? from Vladik even to Iturup is 1250 km, and to Alaska in general 5000 km... In words - five thousand kilometers! At least check the scale of the maps. The greater the distance, the longer the response time to events, the lower the maximum possible number of sorties per day, the smaller the delivered combat load

Why do you need to drive a clumsy, unarmed “cow” into a narrow place like the Bering Strait?

Has your knowledge of geography ended on the Bering Strait? Do you think the Pacific Ocean basin ended with them?

For what purposes are helicopters needed? For a landing?

Not just for landing. Fire support for troops, delivery of reinforcements and ammunition.

We are not going to attack, but how can a coastal group with much smaller forces stand up for itself than the first-class fleet showed in the defense of Okhotsk from the British in the Crimean campaign (19th century).

Are you sure that no one will attack us? me not. Well, your example is simply ridiculous! Just think about what nonsense you are writing! Is it okay that it’s not the 19th century anymore? and ships sail not under sails but under nuclear reactors, and guns have long been firing not at 500 m and not with powder bombs.

It is necessary to develop coastal defense, arranging long-range artillery positions, with today’s ammunition almost inferior to missiles,

NONSENSE!

missiles themselves and a mosquito fleet of missile boats and landing craft, such as a naval type of hovercraft or wings following the example of Iran in the Persian Gulf

Go out into the Sea of ​​Okhotsk or the Kuril Straits in the fall on at least some kind of ship. There will be a lot of impressions - then you’ll wash your pants, and come and tell us about the mosquito fleet and hovercraft.

[thinker]

Well, in addition, the agreement on the maritime border between the USSR and the USA (USA/USSR Maritime Boundary) has not yet been approved by the State Duma of the Russian Federation. And there are many controversial issues (created, by the way, in 1990 by Foreign Minister E. Shevardnadze)

Eduard Shevardnadze signed such a generous Georgian-style agreement with US Secretary of State James Baker that about 50 thousand square meters were transferred from the economic zone of the USSR to the United States. kilometers of the Pacific Ocean.
"Line of Betrayal" by Shevardnadze http://nnm.me/blogs/modelius1/liniya-predatelstva-shevardnadze/

[Mercenary]

Mistrals in that form. what we don’t need for the Pacific Fleet, they are not suitable, they are too heat-loving.
It’s time to draw your own conclusion (that this is definitely needed) and at the same time create groups to support landing ships.

[Andy1111]

Quote: Mercenary

Mistrals in that form. what we don’t need for the Pacific Fleet, they are not suitable, they are too heat-loving.

People, finally study the question before you write this!!! One ram (Rogozin) blurted out nonsense and now it is buzzing around the Internet and the weak brains of armchair admirals.

This is not true. When based in our waters, the conditional Mistral will have no more problems (and due to the larger displacement and deck height - actually less) than the conditional Ivan Gren

[maxxlll]

I still don’t understand from the article why we need the Mistral. My personal opinion is that an aircraft-carrying cruiser is not needed.

[Andrei from Chelyabinsk]

excellent analysis. All that remains is to find out why the author needs the Mistrals? :)))
If, for example, Japan wanted to land on the Kuril Islands, it would do so under the cover of DOZENS of F-15 needles and other aircraft of its aviation, capable of, among other things, the use of anti-ship weapons. And what should Mistral do there?

[IAlex]

It's time for patriots to start drinking valerian and calm down about the Mistrals, which do not exist and will not exist...

[Navy7981]

Damn, with what pleasure I would have seen the trial of Shevardnadze and his execution... it’s a pity that he died, I hope he got what he “deserted”

[97110]

for operations in the Northern Hemisphere and Western Arctic

So I read up to the actions in the Arctic and spat angrily. Why talk about great things if words cannot be agreed upon.

[gammipapa]

Why do we need to spend extra money (of which there is already a lot) on aircraft carriers and helicopter carriers. It can be much smarter to improve and have in the required quantity on combat duty medium-range missiles with nuclear warheads (which we are very good at making) and not be ashamed to show them to the whole world. They say, keeping up with all of you will break your knees, we don’t have extra money and people, but if you struggle, you’ll get a lethal dose.

[aba]

I don’t understand... The author proposes to organize a naval battle between the helicopter carriers Izumo and Mistral?
What is it for?

[TECHNOLOGY]

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[B.V.G]

Japan can bring surprises...it became a great naval power precisely after the victory over the fleets of China and Russia. And no matter what they say at the General Staff of the Russian Navy, the relocation of Peter the Great and Kuznetsov to the Pacific Fleet is simply necessary.