Military Review

MANPADS "Verba" delivered units of the Ground Forces and Airborne

225
The Kolomna engineering engineering design bureau, part of the Vysokotochny Kompleks NPO, supplied the latest portable Verba anti-aircraft missile systems for the Airborne Forces units and the Ground Forces of the Russian Federation. The brigade kit was sent to servicemen of the Ground Forces, the divisional kit was sent to the Airborne Forces. Reports about it official website of the company.

MANPADS "Verba" delivered units of the Ground Forces and Airborne


At the end of the year, the 2 divisional and 2 brigade sets of “Verba” MANPADS Kolomenskoye KBM delivered to the Russian Armed Forces.
The kit includes combat tools, controls, detection, and target designation. In addition, it is a device for state recognition, maintenance tools and training components.

Press office of the company:
This will ensure the full combat readiness of army units, develop and maintain skills in the use of rocket complexes, and increases the effectiveness of their use.


MANPADS "Verba" - a complex capable of hitting not only the classic for all MANPADS goals, but also low-emitting air targets of the class of unmanned aerial vehicles or cruise missiles. Such a destructive ability is realized thanks to the super-sensitive “Verba” head.
Photos used:
vpk.name
225 comments
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  1. svp67
    svp67 30 November 2014 10: 20
    +46
    Another good news for the New Year good
    1. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov 30 November 2014 10: 24
      +50
      In Syria, to test them .. USA-Israel there are impudent!
      1. Petr1
        Petr1 30 November 2014 10: 36
        +10
        In Novorossia they already tested this summer, the Nazis did not really like them, and Syrian friends let them buy tons, we will only be happy.
        1. pahom54
          pahom54 30 November 2014 11: 58
          +23
          Quote: Petr1
          In Novorossia already experienced this summer, the Nazis did not really like them,


          Although I plus you, however, be careful in saying X. Do not pour water into the ukrov mill. After all, that they, that the Americans give out such statements of the visitors of the Internet for the truth ...
          1. Cristall
            Cristall 30 November 2014 16: 11
            -9
            Quote: pahom54
            Quote: Petr1
            In Novorossia already experienced this summer, the Nazis did not really like them,


            Although I plus you, however, be careful in saying X. Do not pour water into the ukrov mill. After all, that they, that the Americans give out such statements of the visitors of the Internet for the truth ...

            In VO and Russian media, it’s similar, someone writes on Facebook and VO screams as if the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry has officially announced that Russian passenger planes will be shot down
          2. Cristall
            Cristall 30 November 2014 16: 11
            -7
            Quote: pahom54
            Quote: Petr1
            In Novorossia already experienced this summer, the Nazis did not really like them,


            Although I plus you, however, be careful in saying X. Do not pour water into the ukrov mill. After all, that they, that the Americans give out such statements of the visitors of the Internet for the truth ...

            In VO and Russian media, it’s similar, someone writes on Facebook and VO screams as if the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry has officially announced that Russian passenger planes will be shot down
          3. Knifebot.
            Knifebot. 30 November 2014 23: 54
            0
            so what ? if they are not shy about glowing in front of the cameras, then koments on VO are unlikely to threaten conspiracy.
            PS

            Willow hardly experienced.
            1. Aqela
              Aqela 2 December 2014 11: 23
              +1
              What do you mean "hardly experienced"? Was it adopted without testing or was it not used in Ukraine? If the first is sheer stupidity, if the second is obvious.
              1. Knifebot.
                Knifebot. 2 December 2014 19: 11
                0
                obviously the second.
          4. insafufa
            insafufa 1 December 2014 08: 53
            0
            Quote: pahom54
            Quote: Petr1
            In Novorossia already experienced this summer, the Nazis did not really like them,


            Although I plus you, however, be careful in saying X. Do not pour water into the ukrov mill. After all, that they, that the Americans give out such statements of the visitors of the Internet for the truth ...


            All this is not really not where the new systems didn’t deliver, and especially the Verba MANPADS, the old kind needle and arrow-2 drove these fighters because there were cases of refusals from the MANPADS so the volunteers who used them wrote in other things
            1. Aqela
              Aqela 2 December 2014 11: 25
              +1
              That's what I'm talking about. I think that the stuffing about the use of "Verba" in Ukraine is elements of an information war with Russia (that is, in a simple way - slander).
        2. Viking
          Viking 30 November 2014 14: 14
          +4
          Are there any facts confirming the use of "Verba" in the battles for Novorossiya? No. "Arrow" and "Arrow-1" were, it is not who and does not hide. On account of "Eagle" is also a big question, whether they were or not. Well, of course, the air defense (at least during active battles) at the VSN was at the level. Attack aircraft (the target is very, very difficult) often shot down.
          1. Denimax
            Denimax 1 December 2014 00: 06
            0
            Igla-S has already worked there. It was shot down, like the AN-24 at the landing approach at night. And PNV appeared only for the first time at this MANPADS.
            And secondly, large-scale partisan actions cannot provide themselves with trophies. They are usually supplied or financed.
    2. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU 30 November 2014 10: 25
      +20
      if you believe the Ukrainian media, they allegedly "worked" in the Donbas in the summer ... Is it really difficult to shoot down the old Strela-24M MANPADS in order to shoot down the Ukrainian MI-2014, which until the summer of 2 rose once a year at best? Needle ", and not even" Needle-S "?! smile
      1. tomket
        tomket 30 November 2014 10: 33
        +28
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        Is it really difficult to shoot down the Ukrainian MI-24, which until the summer of 2014 rose once a year at best, it is difficult to shoot down from the old Strela-2M MANPADS and simply "Igla", and not even "Igla-S" ?!

        Well, this is a tradition when you don’t want to admit your shortcomings, so they begin to invent, then "Verba", then ion cannons, then positive emitters. By the way, remember how rumors went around after Tsushima that Rzhdestvensky fought with the English squadron, and not with the macaques. Or the Americans, who snatched away from the MiG-15 in Korea, immediately declared that the MiG-15 is entirely German development. Long-standing international traditions, so to speak.
        1. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 30 November 2014 14: 10
          +4
          Well, there is some truth ..... that the MiG-9-15, that the Saber F-86 had for the grandfather of Ta-183 Kurt Tank ..... although of course they were not copies
          1. Non-jumping
            Non-jumping 30 November 2014 14: 59
            +9
            It is reliably known that all key German experts in the field of aviation and rocket technology, together with documentation and even some samples, were secretly evacuated to the United States. Yes! They didn’t run, but they were evacuated as if they were their own. And since Russia is silent, then why not tell nonsense, including for the Russian population.
            1. tomket
              tomket 30 November 2014 15: 02
              +3
              Quote: non-jumping
              that all key German experts in the field of aviation and rocket technology, along with documentation and even some samples, were evacuated to the United States. Yes! Did not run

              According to the recollections of American engineers and designers, their tables in 45 were littered with so much documentation from Germany that it took a lot of time, just to simply put things in order.
              1. edeligor
                edeligor 30 November 2014 19: 32
                +3
                Quote: tomket
                their tables in 45 were littered with so much documentation from Germany

                And in the 90 years from the USSR, who had fallen into history! Now these celestials will rest on their laurels from their technological superiority, which is shy and depressed from all sides. Why are they better than the Xerox Chinese?
          2. tomket
            tomket 30 November 2014 14: 59
            +6
            Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
            Well, there is some truth ..... that Mig-9-15, that Saber F-86 had Grandpa Ta-183 Kurt Tank ..

            Work on the MiG 9 began in June 45, I don’t think that the captured documentation, not that it was processed, but even most likely has not yet reached the USSR. For Fury, the predecessor of the Saber, the work and sketches were also approved even before the end of the war. Research papers on the rifle wing in the USSR were published in 44. Directly whom they wanted to copy and whom they were equal to according to LTH was Me 262. Exotics like Ta 183 were studied, but only as scientific and cognitive material. If you are confused by the frontal location of the air intake, do not be embarrassed))))
          3. Wheel
            Wheel 1 December 2014 02: 52
            +3
            Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
            Well, there is some truth ..... that the MiG-9-15, that the Saber F-86 had for the grandfather of Ta-183 Kurt Tank ..... although of course they were not copies

            And that share of truth that Ta-183 had Mozhaisky’s plane for his great-grandfather .... although, of course, it was not a copy. laughing hi
            1. Aqela
              Aqela 2 December 2014 11: 46
              0
              And the Wright brothers, based on this logic, carefully followed the developments of Mozhaisky, who is nothing more than an apprentice of Leonardo da Vinci ...
          4. Aqela
            Aqela 2 December 2014 11: 37
            0
            Yeah. And the FW-190 is modeled on the Polikarpovsky I-16 ... And what? Outwardly similar! And the fact that similar technologies give similar results is of no interest to anyone ... Then it turns out that the StG-44 is made on the basis of SVT-38 - they even have the same shutter locking scheme, unlike AK ...
            I will allow myself a couple of quotes (from Wikipedia, as a source of elementary information, by no means expert):

            Focke-Wulf Ta 183 (German: Focke-Wulf Ta 183)
            German project of a turbojet fighter. The first flight - did not take off.
            In February 1945, the aircraft won the fighter competition held by the Luftwaffe High Command. The car was named Ta 183. The Luftwaffe ordered 16 serial cars of modifications V1-V3. The first flight was planned in May-June 1945, and the start of mass production in October of that year. But these plans were not destined to come true. On April 8, 1945, British troops captured the Focke-Wulf plants. Work on Ta 183 ceased and never resumed.

            MiG-15:
            First flight December 30, 1947
            Designing a new fighter was started at the end of 1946. On March 11, 1947, the Council of Ministers of the USSR approved a pilot aircraft construction plan for 1947, in accordance with which MAP Order No. 210 of Mikoyan Design Bureau was instructed to develop a front-line fighter with a pressurized cockpit and build it in duplicate. The same order stopped all work on the I-225 and I-250 fighters as having lost their relevance.

            Eh ... That's the "grandfather" ... If you count any _project_ of a turbojet or missile or rocket fighter with swept wings for the "grandfather" of the MiG-15, then something will be a bit too much grandfather.

            and about Tank:
            http://alternathistory.org.ua/otets-mig-15-foke-vulf-ta-183-germaniya
            During the Korean War, the Americans, with their mentality of world superiority, faced with an unexpectedly equal enemy, for propaganda purposes, blamed the success of the MiGs on the use of Russian German originals by the Russians. It is not surprising that the MiG-15 is now called the Russian modernization of the Ta.183 in foreign literature. However, in addition to being "illegally born", Ta.183 has a direct heir. In 1947, Kurt Tank, at the invitation of President Juan Perón, moved to Argentina, where he created a fighter based on his previous design with minimal changes regarding the engine and wing position. The first flight on the plane, named IA33 Puiqui II, was made in June 1950 by the Tank itself. Interestingly, its flight performance was lower than that of the Soviet MiG-15 or the American F-86.
      2. NKVD
        NKVD 30 November 2014 11: 30
        +10
        He and RPG can bring down a trained fighter
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 35
          +6
          In Mogadishu, the local gangs managed to overwhelm two helicopters. True, a lot of practice is needed here.
          1. edeligor
            edeligor 30 November 2014 19: 33
            +1
            Exclusively from a high-rise building on low-flying and WITHOUT cover!
        2. mamont5
          mamont5 30 November 2014 11: 44
          +4
          Quote: NKVD
          He and RPG can bring down a trained fighter


          And shot down in Ukraine. And it seems even with anti-tank systems.
        3. SEK
          SEK 30 November 2014 16: 07
          +2
          Motorola fighter with a machine gun failed drying.
          1. Aqela
            Aqela 2 December 2014 11: 57
            +1
            Link to the source, please! The fact looks doubtful.
            The fact is that the Su-25 is not easy to fill up even from MANPADS or ZSU - there is a good booking system. The machine gun has a rather low power and range for air targets. Already according to the experience of the Second World War, fourteen-caliber 14,5 mm guns were used, and 10 mm guns were put on the IL-20, since 7,62 and 12,7 were not powerful enough.
            Cases of the downing of the Ju-87 from a Mosin rifle are described, so his reservation was not so hot.
            From Wikipedia: “After the first year of the war, the high command of the Luftwaffe realized that despite the initial huge success, under the current conditions, the Junkers Ju-87B no longer met the requirements. The defensive weapons could not fight on equal terms with enemy fighters, and the armor plates could not withstand the increased anti-aircraft fire. "
            But PTRS - it’s quite possible for itself:
            "Anti-tank self-loading rifle arr. 1941 of the Simonov system (PTRS, GRAU index - 56-V-562) is a Soviet self-loading anti-tank rifle, adopted for service on August 29, 1941. Intended to combat medium and light tanks and armored vehicles at distances up to 500 m.Also, a gun could fire at pillboxes / bunkers and firing points covered with armor, at distances up to 800 m and by air at distances up to 500 m.
            ...
            Armor penetration: at 100 m - 50-60 mm, at 300 m - 40 mm. "
        4. The comment was deleted.
      3. Koshak
        Koshak 30 November 2014 12: 51
        +5
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        if you believe the Ukrainian media, they allegedly "worked" in the Donbas in the summer ... Is it really difficult to shoot down the old Strela-24M MANPADS in order to shoot down the Ukrainian MI-2014, which until the summer of 2 rose once a year at best? Needle ", and not even" Needle-S "?! smile

        This can also be brought down from the PTR of the times of the Second World War, but tests in combat conditions for real goals are very important. Again, the double benefit: the testing of weapons, and helping people.
      4. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 30 November 2014 14: 59
        +2
        Arrow-2m, it’s a completely working complex, the schoolchildren will cope with the turntables, the same story with the attack aircraft, only a salvo from two points, and the guarantee of hitting the target, if there are no problems, then the older Arrows will sing ...
    3. Denis fj
      Denis fj 30 November 2014 10: 26
      +2
      I understand that the complex can even shoot down aircraft models with internal combustion engines and, of course, remotely piloted aircraft, i.e. deprive a probable opponent of one of the promising types of instrumental intelligence.
      1. Nevsky_ZU
        Nevsky_ZU 30 November 2014 10: 32
        +21
        Quote: Denis fj
        I understand that the complex can even shoot down aircraft models with internal combustion engines and, of course, remotely piloted aircraft, i.e. deprive a probable opponent of one of the promising types of instrumental intelligence.


        One of the Verba's main advantages is the high probability of hitting low-radiation targets such as cruise missiles and unmanned aerial vehicles. In terms of their tactical and technical characteristics, these weapons are superior to the Russian Igla-1, Igla, Igla-S MANPADS, as well as their foreign counterparts, in particular the American Stinger Block-1, the British Starstrick, Chinese QW-2 and QW-3, Swedish RBS 70, French Mistral. "Verba" is a new generation of MANPADS, the improved characteristics of which are based on the use of a fundamentally new three-spectral homing head (the Igla-S has a two-spectral one) and a new instrument compartment.

        The sensitivity of the head was increased many times, its noise immunity was increased. As a result, the zone of target destruction has significantly expanded and the effectiveness of the use of the complex at long ranges has increased. The range of the missile from 500 to 6,4 is thousands of meters, the height of the lesion is from 10 to 4,5 thousands of meters, the speed of the targeted target is up to 500 meters per second. In this case, the mass of the warhead of the rocket is only 1,5 kg.
        The "Willow" is supplied as a set. The MANPADS includes: a missile, a launcher, a "friend or foe" ground radar interrogator, a mobile checkpoint, a small-sized radar detector, a planning module, a reconnaissance and control module, a portable fire control module (in a brigade kit), a built-in mounting kit (in divisional kit), a set of automation equipment for an anti-aircraft gunner, training equipment.

        The army notes that the quality and reliability of the complex has significantly improved, its maintenance has been simplified, and there is no need to conduct periodic inspections in the troops with cooling of the GOS with nitrogen. This made it possible to abandon additional equipment, storage facilities with nitrogen, to save human resources. At the same time, a high continuity with previous MANPADS was maintained in terms of combat work, operation, maintenance and training.

        http://www.rg.ru/2014/11/28/verba-site.html
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 30 November 2014 11: 00
          0
          One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???
          1. Nevsky_ZU
            Nevsky_ZU 30 November 2014 11: 05
            +2
            Quote: The same Lech
            One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???


            Are we going to shoot down our titanium armor attack aircraft? Or will the "Russian World" retreat to the East again, and God forbid people from Smolensk and Belgorod will start calling themselves Litvins, not Russians, while having the names Ivanov and Petrov, and speaking in Russian? (I will not survive this) Are there similar planes in the West? Yes, I'm sure that something powerful was pushed into the rocket into these 1,5 kg. what
            1. UREC
              UREC 30 November 2014 14: 39
              +5
              In Belgorod, no one is going to call themselves Litvins yet. Glory to the New Russia! glory to our guys! And our guys really need help, including driving new models in real life.
              1. sergio6769
                sergio6769 30 November 2014 19: 36
                +2
                Yes, and in Smolensk too smile Yes, and never called ...
                1. kolyhalovs
                  kolyhalovs 1 December 2014 08: 04
                  0
                  On the other hand, Novosibirsk has a doher of "Siberians" by nationality. I am not kidding. I processed the census materials. Our then governor (now the governor of the Krasnoyarsk Territory) is also from the "Siberians" - this is known from his interview.
          2. Lissyara
            Lissyara 30 November 2014 11: 10
            +12
            One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???
            Same lech, "throw" an ordinary 200-gram TNT block into the engine nozzle and see the result smile Here, one and a half kg + damaging elements.
            And more ... As you know, nobody canceled such a science as aerodynamics. Maybe you can't take off the first rocket, but "you will overhaul your wings."
            1. biron
              biron 30 November 2014 13: 12
              +4
              Sometimes, and in a collision with a bird, a khan’s plane comes bully
            2. FREGATENKAPITAN
              FREGATENKAPITAN 30 November 2014 14: 12
              0
              Sometimes a stupid bird of a dove caught in the air intake is enough ............................ am
          3. Professor
            Professor 30 November 2014 11: 32
            -41
            Quote: The same Lech
            One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???

            MANPADS do not pose a particular threat to jet aircraft. Their goals are light aircraft and rotorcraft. Lost about unmanned aerial vehicles. Today they are with an electric motor like Carlson. What is their thermal footprint? wassat
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 42
              +13
              Quote: Professor
              MANPADS do not pose a particular threat to jet aircraft.

              ?
              Yah? Tell it to the Americans.
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 November 2014 11: 43
                -11
                Quote: Spade
                Yah? Tell it to the Americans.

                They are in the know.
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 48
                  +3
                  Especially shot down pilots in the Vietnamese jungle? Definitely in the know.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 30 November 2014 11: 50
                    -17
                    Quote: Spade
                    Especially shot down pilots in the Vietnamese jungle? Definitely in the know.

                    Yes, they counted everything. And the number of starts and, accordingly, the effectiveness. Well they are bourgeois, what to take from them?
                    request
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 58
                      +16
                      Quote: Professor
                      Yes, they counted everything. And the number of starts and, accordingly, the effectiveness. Well they are bourgeois, what to take from them?

                      Well, imagine the numbers in Vietnam. Just not like last time when the number of launches exceeded the total number of all missiles produced in the USSR.
                  2. Hagalaz
                    Hagalaz 30 November 2014 12: 11
                    +7
                    Ukrainian were not in the know.
                    The plane may not be shot down, but it will force you to stop the combat mission. In the conditions of modern transient battle, more is not required. It’s like with anti-personnel landmines, where the minimum charge is capable of only relatively small damage. It is not necessary to kill a soldier or tear off his leg. It is enough to stop its actions at a specific time in a particular place.
                    1. Tyumen
                      Tyumen 30 November 2014 17: 56
                      +1
                      What antipersonnel can’t tear off a foot?
                      1. Hagalaz
                        Hagalaz 30 November 2014 20: 51
                        0
                        I mean COMPARATIVE small damage. Agree, a finger on the foot or even the whole foot, this is not the whole leg, and even more so it is not necessary the death of a person.
                        Like a damaged aircraft - not necessarily shot down.
            2. Vulpo
              Vulpo 30 November 2014 11: 53
              +6
              Quote: Professor
              MANPADS do not pose a special threat to jet aircraft

              I would like some arguments okromya ... deleted by the moderator ... fairy tales "!, and by the way," reactive "is too voluminous a concept !, maybe you wanted to say" supersonic ", otherwise you live there and don't know?
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 November 2014 12: 02
                -8
                Quote: Vulpo
                I would like some arguments okromya ... deleted by the moderator ... fairy tales!

                Then contact the address to MIKHAN for example.

                Quote: Spade
                Well, imagine the numbers in Vietnam. Just not like last time when the number of launches exceeded the total number of all missiles produced in the USSR.

                I have digits for BV. What numbers do you have? wink
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 30 November 2014 12: 06
                  +10
                  Quote: Professor
                  I have digits for BV

                  I heard. According to the stories of Israeli pilots, MANPADS were so often launched against them that the number of launches suddenly exceeded the number of all missiles produced.

                  It’s no good trying to make statistics based on hunting tales ... You can get stuck.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 30 November 2014 12: 13
                    -15
                    Quote: Spade
                    I heard. According to the stories of Israeli pilots, MANPADS were so often launched against them that the number of launches suddenly exceeded the number of all missiles produced.

                    At least Israeli sources (unlike Soviet ones) were not caught lying. And Egypt did not refute these figures. Well, about the number of missiles produced is nothing more than your fantasies. By the way, how much do you think MANPADS were used then? After all, you know once so confidently affirm it. wink
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 30 November 2014 12: 24
                      +8
                      Quote: Professor
                      At least Israeli sources (unlike Soviet ones) were not caught lying.

                      And how do you catch a fisherman on a lie who "caught a fish of 100 kg, but released it"?


                      Quote: Professor
                      By the way, how much do you think MANPADS were used then? After all, you know once so confidently affirm it.

                      Oh, you did the "reset" ... Go back to the last discussion, there are all numbers.

                      But about "the Egyptians did not refute" something new. Can I link?
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 13: 54
                        -9
                        Quote: Spade
                        And how do you catch a fisherman on a lie who "caught a fish of 100 kg, but released it"?

                        Reputation. This is called reputation. At Hale Avira she is not soaked.

                        Quote: Spade
                        Oh, you did the "reset" ... Go back to the last discussion, there are all numbers.

                        Googling again?

                        Quote: Spade
                        But about "the Egyptians did not refute" something new. Can I link?

                        The link of what was "not refuted"? Are you kidding? wink
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 14: 07
                        +14
                        Quote: Professor
                        Reputation. This is called reputation.

                        After the announcement that "5 thousand missiles were fired in 18 days, 35 hits were achieved, 4 planes were shot down and 3 damaged," the whole "reputation" is going to hell.


                        Quote: Professor
                        Googling again?

                        Are you completely lazy and decided to throw off the burden of proof of your statements on me?


                        Quote: Professor
                        The link of what was "not refuted"? Are you kidding?

                        No, I do as you do. "Prove that the brace can receive Radio Russia"
                      3. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 32
                        -3
                        Quote: Spade
                        After the announcement that "5 thousand missiles were fired in 18 days, 35 hits were achieved, 4 planes were shot down and 3 damaged," the whole "reputation" is going to hell.

                        Well, Jews can’t fight. They cannot by definition. If they talk about a dozen lost planes, then they lie, there were at least 1000 there. And if there weren’t so many physically, there were 1000 times less missiles fired at them and one missile shot down at least 3 planes, since two pilots immediately ejected. By the way, voice pliz your numbers once mine do not suit you.
                        wink

                        Quote: Spade
                        Are you completely lazy and decided to throw off the burden of proof of your statements on me?

                        Dismiss I have already laid out a link to the source of information. Not satisfied - indicate yours. However, you did not specify.
                        Maybe now tell us about the effectiveness of MANPADS. The topic seems to be suitable.

                        Quote: Spade
                        No, I do as you do. "Prove that the brace can receive Radio Russia"

                        I have never asked anyone for proofs like "show the link that there were no refutations."
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 04
                        +7
                        Quote: Professor
                        Well, Jews can’t fight. They cannot by definition. If they talk about a dozen lost planes, then they lie, there were at least 1000 there. And if there weren’t so many physically, there were 1000 times less missiles fired at them and one missile shot down at least 3 planes, since two pilots immediately ejected. By the way, voice pliz your numbers once mine do not suit you.

                        It is this impression that arises. Otherwise, why would you lie that more than half of MANPADS produced in the USSR suddenly found themselves on the fronts of the war with Israel.

                        Quote: Professor
                        Dismiss I have already laid out a link to the source of information.

                        This, dear, complete game. The source is not trustworthy because of the fantastic nature of its information.

                        Quote: Professor
                        Maybe now tell us about the effectiveness of MANPADS. The topic seems to be suitable.

                        1987 Illiterate Afghan peasants made 86 launches, shooting down 18 cars. The Air Force Command of the 40th Army, in order to avoid losses, was forced to almost completely abandon the use of helicopters in the daytime, and for air support use only attack aircraft and fighter-bombers from heights of at least 3000 meters
                      5. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 13
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        It is this impression that arises. Otherwise, why would you lie that more than half of MANPADS produced in the USSR suddenly found themselves on the fronts of the war with Israel.

                        Gaddafi stockpiled 20 MANPADS, but Egypt could not have 000? Oh well.

                        Quote: Spade
                        This, dear, complete game. The source is not trustworthy because of the fantastic nature of its information.

                        When will we see your source that is trustworthy in view of NOT the fantastic nature of its information

                        Quote: Spade
                        1987. Illiterate Afghan peasants made 86 launches

                        I repeat the question "Can you tell us now about the effectiveness of MANPADS". I hint, rotorcraft and light aircraft do not interest me. Remember?
                      6. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 27
                        +2
                        I gave you normal data. Not "6825 missiles per 10 aircraft shot down"

                        Not nonsense, but what really looks like reality.
                      7. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 37
                        -3
                        Quote: Spade
                        I gave you normal data.

                        No, they didn’t. What is the effectiveness against jet aircraft, it was about them that I spoke.

                        Quote: Spade
                        Not "6825 missiles per 10 aircraft shot down"

                        What are your numbers? Will we ever see them at all?
                      8. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 56
                        +3
                        Quote: Professor
                        No, they didn’t. What is the effectiveness against jet aircraft, it was about them that I spoke.

                        In 1987, Dushmans shot down 9 (nine) combat jets.

                        Since
                        January 28, 1987 combat loss of the Su-25 aircraft of the 378th oshap (Bagram). Attack of the stronghold of the Mujahideen in the area of ​​the settlement Host of the group. The presence in the target area of ​​a cloud layer with a lower edge of about 2500 meters required the pilots to approach at an altitude lower than a safe one, as a result of which the enemy was able to use Stinger MANPADS missiles. The plane of the deputy squadron commander, Mr. Eduard Ryabov, was struck, which successfully ejected and was picked up by PSO helicopters.
                2. Vulpo
                  Vulpo 30 November 2014 12: 07
                  +8
                  Quote: Professor
                  Then contact the address to MIKHAN for example.

                  laughing good I did not expect more! hi
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 30 November 2014 12: 13
                    -14
                    Quote: Vulpo
                    I did not expect more!

                    And then what did he write at all? No one to chat with? Loneliness?
                    1. Vulpo
                      Vulpo 30 November 2014 12: 20
                      +4
                      Quote: Professor
                      And then what did he write at all? No one to chat with? Loneliness?

                      laughing laughing Well, listen, stop completely discrediting your nation, with your "near" logic! I ask you! hi
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 13: 55
                        -8
                        Quote: Vulpo
                        Well, listen, stop completely discrediting your nation, with your "near" logic! I ask you!

                        You worry about your nation.
            3. i80186
              i80186 30 November 2014 12: 03
              +7
              Quote: Professor
              Quote: The same Lech
              One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???

              MANPADS do not pose a particular threat to jet aircraft. Their goals are light aircraft and rotorcraft. Lost about unmanned aerial vehicles. Today they are with an electric motor like Carlson. What is their thermal footprint? wassat

              Well, it may not be enough to shoot down, and the engine can be damaged and put out of order for sure.
              But with drones it is more interesting. What do you think, what kind of "battery" is needed to power a radio station capable of confidently transmitting information in conditions of massive electronic countermeasures for, say, 30 km? Moreover, keep this battery and the unit itself in the air for, say, five hours? I have it (with a transmitter power of 50W) somewhere in the region of 600A * h 12V. (Even if lithium is a thing weighing 300kg) And it is metal and is definitely visible on the radar. smile Only a complete psychopath will try to use something like this for military purposes. An internal combustion engine / jet is the only option for the military, at least for now.
              About mega lasers impaired guidance heads are generally ridiculous. Do you think if you are not shown missiles guided by laser radiation, then they are not? There, even complex cooled heads are not needed. smile
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 November 2014 12: 11
                -6
                Quote: i80186
                Well, it may not be enough to shoot down, and the engine can be damaged and put out of order for sure.

                How I like this "for sure". What is it backed up by? Reflection or real application?

                Quote: i80186
                An internal combustion engine / jet is the only option for the military, at least for now.

                Yah? The UAV developers, unfortunately, did not consult with you and made very decent battery-powered drones.


                Quote: i80186
                About mega lasers that damage homing heads is generally ridiculous

                Let's laugh together. For example, from the Russian system "President". They also did not consult with you.

                Quote: i80186
                Do you think if you are not shown missiles guided by laser radiation, then they are not?

                good
                1. i80186
                  i80186 30 November 2014 12: 35
                  +4
                  Quote: Professor
                  How I like this "for sure". What is it backed up by? Reflection or real application?

                  Well, let 0,3 be the probability of hitting, let 0,6 be the probability of engine failure. And we have seven launches, one - one plane. I think it’s normal in terms of value.
                  Quote: Professor
                  Yah? The UAV developers, unfortunately, did not consult with you and made very decent battery-powered drones.

                  Do you have many familiar UAV developers? They probably have other physical laws. Surely the guys from DARPA. laughing
                  Quote: Professor
                  Let's laugh together. For example, from the Russian system "President". They also did not consult with you.

                  Let’s, this is very funny, because in fact, after the appearance of air defense systems with radars, missiles to destroy these very radars, induced by their radiation, appeared almost simultaneously. smile
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 30 November 2014 12: 45
                    -8
                    Quote: i80186
                    Well, let 0,3 be the probability of hitting, let 0,6 be the probability of engine failure. And we have seven launches, one - one plane. I think it’s normal in terms of value.

                    No, not "let". Let's get the effectiveness of combat use into the studio.

                    Quote: i80186
                    Do you have many familiar UAV developers? They probably have other physical laws. Surely the guys from DARPA

                    I have two. Both work in the building opposite where they are developing drones. And you?

                    Quote: i80186
                    Let’s, this is very funny, because in fact, after the appearance of air defense systems with radars, missiles to destroy these very radars, induced by their radiation, appeared almost simultaneously.

                    Okay, laughed and that's enough.
                    1. i80186
                      i80186 30 November 2014 12: 55
                      +4
                      Quote: Professor
                      No, not "let". Let's get the effectiveness of combat use into the studio.

                      Well, who will give you that? This is a mystery. smile
                      Quote: Professor
                      I have two. Both work in the building opposite where they are developing drones. And you?

                      So take an interest in what conditions and what exactly they are developing.
                      1. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 13: 57
                        -5
                        Quote: i80186
                        Well, who will give you that? This is a mystery

                        Yes, this is not a secret. In any case, on BV, performance data has already been published.

                        Quote: i80186
                        So take an interest in what conditions and what exactly they are developing.

                        They make ICE helicopters. However, battery-powered drones have long been adopted. Even a "professor" like me wrote an article about it.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 14: 09
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        In any case, on BV, performance data has already been published.

                        Aha laughing laughing laughing
                      3. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 35
                        -6
                        Quote: Spade
                        Aha

                        Aha! Give your sources to refute these figures. Then we will discuss. And statements like "they could not have so many MANPADS" since the Soviet industry could not produce them so much "leave it for another public.
                      4. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 08
                        +7
                        Refuting what? Of the 10 missiles fired in the USSR, 6825 Strela-2 and Strela-2M missiles flew at Israeli aircraft. And no less than the same amount remained unused. It goes without saying that everyone else, including the Soviet Army, received virtual weapons, I apologize. "paper" rockets.
                      5. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 15
                        -3
                        So, dear, how many MANPADS and whose production were in service with Egypt? Call the number pliz.
                      6. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 30
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        So, dear, how many MANPADS and whose production were in service with Egypt? Call the number pliz.

                        2000. Moreover, most of them are own production,
                      7. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 37
                        -3
                        Quote: Spade
                        2000. Moreover, most of them are own production,

                        A reference to the studio pliz.
                      8. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 58
                        +3
                        Only after you provide the links. And then your unfoundedness has already begun to bother me.
                      9. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 16: 12
                        -3
                        Quote: Spade
                        Only after you provide the links. And then your unfoundedness has already begun to bother me.

                        I have already laid out the leverage on the "advisers". I repeat for those who are poor at reading the first time:

                        Group of Soviet military experts in Egypt

                        http://izvestiya.odessa.ua/ru/2013/02/16/sovetskie-voyska-v-egipte

                        After the untimely death of President G.A. Nasser On September 28, 1970, at the age of 52, Anwar Sadat was elected President, who almost immediately reoriented to the United States, setting himself the task of withdrawing the Soviet military contingent from Egypt. The main part of the twenty thousandth grouping of Soviet troops (according to other sources, 35 thousand) It was urgently withdrawn between July 17-27, 1972, although a limited number of Soviet military specialists remained in the Egyptian Armed Forces even after the withdrawal of the main Soviet military contingent until the October 1973 war.

                        Performance Link:
                        http://www.waronline.org/analysis/strela.htm

                        Now the turn is yours, not our unsubstantiated one. By the way, my movie rusts here with interception by KAZ TOU. How is it with your videos? wink
                      10. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 32
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        I have already laid out the leverage on the "advisers". I repeat for those who are poor at reading the first time:

                        Dear, this is not a link, this is complete nonsense. For example, 21 anti-aircraft missile battalion deployed in Egypt. Are these advisers? Definitely not.
                        2 Mig-21 regiment with technical staff. Advisers? Not.
                        The techies who re-opened the equipment and brought it to the BG. Advisers? No again.

                        So there will be a figure, how many advisers were there, or not?
                      11. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 16: 37
                        -3
                        Quote: Spade
                        Dear, this is not a link, this is complete nonsense. For example, 21 anti-aircraft missile battalion deployed in Egypt. Are these advisers? Definitely not.
                        2 Mig-21 regiment with technical staff. Advisers? Not.
                        The techies who re-opened the equipment and brought it to the BG. Advisers? No again.

                        So there will be a figure, how many advisers were there, or not?

                        Oh ... Lapatov was pressed against the wall and he began to cling to the words. As always, you are inattentive, the word "advisor" especially for you, I enclosed in quotation marks. Now what do you say? I have the wrong type of font?
                        In short, where are your numbers? Do you have them at all (rhetorical question)?

                        PS
                        Since today you didn’t troll for a long time, but you didn’t go to bed for a long time either. Finishing to feed you. Links I gave you (unlike you), study the material. hi
                      12. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 54
                        +4
                        Quote: Professor
                        Since today you didn’t troll for a long time, but you didn’t go to bed for a long time either. Finishing to feed you.

                        Merged? Well, as usual. It’s forever with you, puff up like hedgehogs. Which are strong but light.

                        Once again, 42 deaths in Egypt, two in Syria ... For groups of tens of thousands ... Tsakhal’s wilderness strikes
                      13. Panikovsky
                        Panikovsky 30 November 2014 19: 42
                        +6
                        Quote: Professor
                        http://izvestiya.odessa.ua/ru/2013/02/16/sovetskie-voyska-v-egipte

                        sorry, dear, but this shit will not work, the price of this source is like an inscription in a public toilet at the Zhmeren bus station.
                      14. picca2
                        picca2 3 December 2014 09: 19
                        -1
                        1) 2.000 MANPADS - does not mean that there were so many launches ...
                        2) The needle, and in the compartment, is used for subsonic targets, respectively, and the probability from here.
                        3) The probability of defeat decreases with the growth of means of combating MANPADS. Therefore, for 1970. could be 0.6-0.8.
                    2. starik80
                      starik80 30 November 2014 15: 29
                      +3
                      Jews can only fight with the Arabs, and when was the last time the Arabs won some kind of war?
                2. Aqela
                  Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 20
                  +1
                  About "battery-powered drones":
                  Parrot AR.Drone
                  Type - Unmanned aerial vehicle - Manufacturer France Parrot
                  Start of operation - 2010
                  Status - in operation
                  The main operators are civilians
                  Parrot AR.Drone is a remote-controlled quadrocopter equipped with video cameras, piloted using an application for iPhone / iPod / iPad, Android or Windows Phone devices. It is produced by the French company Parrot since 2010.
                  Dimensions:
                  With protective cover: 52,5x51,5 cm
                  Without casing: 45x29 cm
                  Weight:
                  380 g - with housing for the street
                  420 g - with a housing for the room
                  Flight speed: 5 m / s; 18 km / h
                  Maximum ceiling: limited by the radius of the wifi (50-120 meters depending on weather conditions)
                  Flight Duration: About 12 minutes (with standard battery)
                  https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parrot_AR.Drone

                  I do not think that such technical data will suit the military. So the previous speaker is right. And yours "made some pretty decent battery-powered drones." looks at least a stretch ...
                  In general, now there are a lot of promising developments, the use of which is limited only by the low efficiency of energy sources. So, for example, a rail gun on tanks or a laser gun on airplanes and ships would have long been concealed.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 2 December 2014 12: 25
                    0
                    Quote: Aqela
                    So - the previous speaker is right. And yours "made some pretty decent battery-powered drones." looks at least a stretch ...

                    Please, here is a sample that is purchased by the military from around the world like mushrooms.
                    UAV Orbiter
              2. And Us Rat
                And Us Rat 30 November 2014 15: 14
                +2
                Quote: i80186
                Only a complete psychopath will try to use something like this for military purposes. An internal combustion engine / jet is the only option for the military, at least for now.

                laughing laughing laughing

                Battery Drones:









                BATTERY MANAGED PLANE fellow :



                Battery Operated Manned Helicopter fellow :

                1. i80186
                  i80186 30 November 2014 15: 53
                  +2
                  Quote: And Us Rat
                  Battery Drones:

                  You can immediately see the harsh military equipment created for covert surveillance / attack in the conditions of the use of nuclear weapons and modern electronic warfare systems. Particularly impressed with the device launched by the rubber band. Yeah. laughing
                  Here you can even buy them and dominate the battlefield completely.
                  http://unmanned.ru/uav/
                  laughing
            4. Sergei1982
              Sergei1982 30 November 2014 12: 17
              +10
              MANPADS do not pose a particular threat to jet aircraft. Their goals are light aircraft and rotorcraft. Lost about unmanned aerial vehicles. Today they are with an electric motor like Carlson. What is their thermal footprint?
              Professor, if not mistaken Desert Storm:
              January 18, 1991 - OV-10A (OV-10D?) Bronco (No. 155435, 1st US Marine Corps Observation Squadron). Downed MANPADS "Strela 3" in the area of ​​Ras al-Mishab.
              January 31, 1991 - AC-130H (ser. Number 69-6567, 16th Special Operations Squadron of the United States Air Force). Downed MANPADS during the battle for Ras al-Khafji
              February 9, 1991 - AV-8B Harrier II (No. 162081, 231st US Marine Corps Assault Squadron). Downed by MANPADS southwest of Kuwait City
              February 19, 1991 - OA-10A Thunderbolt II (ser. Number 76-0543, 23rd tactical squadron of air support for the US Air Force). Shot MANPADS
              February 22, 1991 - A-10A Thunderbolt II (ser. Number 79-0181, 23rd US Air Force Tactical Fighter Wing). MANPADS
              February 22, 1991 - A-10A Thunderbolt II (ser. Number 79-0181, 23rd US Air Force Tactical Fighter Wing). MANPADS
              February 25, 1991 - AV-8B Harrier II (No. 163190, 542nd US Marine Corps Assault Squadron). Downed MANPADS in the Ali al-Salem area
              February 25, 1991 - OV-10A Bronco (No. 155424, 1st US Marine Corps Observation Squadron). MANPADS downed over Kuwait
              February 27, 1991 - F-16C Block 25F Fighting Falcon (ser. Number 84-1390, 10th tactical fighter squadron of the US Air Force). Shot over Kuwait, allegedly Igla MANPADS
              27 February 1991 - AV-8B Harrier II (No. 162740, 331th US Marine Corps Assault Squadron). Shot down by anti-aircraft fire or MANPADS "Strela-2" in the area of ​​Safwan. The pilot died.
              February 27, 1991 - OA-10A Thunderbolt II (ser. Number 77-0197, 23rd tactical squadron of air support for the US Air Force). It was hit by MANPADS and crashed while landing at an air base in the military town of King Khalid.
              There is no reactive.
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 November 2014 12: 42
                -12
                Quote: Sergei1982
                Professor, if not mistaken Desert Storm:

                Part is knocked out, part is lost, part is not clear what was fired at. But most importantly, it is not clear how many missiles were then used at all.

                Quote: Iline
                Following your logic and air defense systems are not capable of anything in the fight against jet aircraft. After all, that MANPADS, that the complexes solve essentially the same problems. Only everyone in their space.

                Have you compared the warhead of MANPADS and S-300? Kinetic characteristics of rockets? Their GOS?


                Quote: Iline
                This is the question of the futility of use against jet aircraft.

                The issue of utility reveals very well the experience of combat use. It just shows that MANPADS do not pose a serious danger to large jet aircraft. They and passenger liners are not always able to bring down. The warhead is not powerful enough.
                1. Iline
                  Iline 30 November 2014 13: 00
                  +5
                  Quote: Professor
                  Have you compared the warhead of MANPADS and S-300? Kinetic characteristics of rockets? Their GOS?

                  It is somewhat illogical to compare the complexes of the far defense zone and the battlefield cover by these criteria. And the tasks they solve are different. Not one fighter can hold the S-300 missile.
                  Quote: Professor
                  MANPADS do not pose a serious danger to large jet aircraft. They and passenger liners are not always able to bring down

                  I agree that large airplanes have more than one engine, but salting and preventing the MANPADS from completing a combat mission is quite within reach. Not every large aircraft can continue to operate normally with one engine out of order, not to mention two. Indeed, in this case we are not talking about the destruction of the aircraft (which would, of course, be the best option), we are talking about covering up our troops on the battlefield.
                  1. Professor
                    Professor 30 November 2014 14: 12
                    -3
                    Quote: Iline
                    It is somewhat illogical to compare the complexes of the far defense zone and the battlefield cover by these criteria. And the tasks they solve are different. Not one fighter can hold the S-300 missile.

                    Well, then why compare portable and portable air defense systems?

                    Quote: Iline
                    I agree that large aircraft have any more than one engine, but it’s quite possible to annoy and prevent the MANPADS from completing the combat mission.

                    Maybe annoy. The pilot’s nerves may or may not be surrendered. But with Patriot, I would not compare MANPADS.
                    1. picca2
                      picca2 3 December 2014 09: 31
                      0
                      - Well, then why compare portable and mobile air defense systems?
                      - Maybe annoy. The pilot’s nerves may or may not be surrendered. But with Patriot, I would not compare MANPADS.

                      A wealth of reasoning logic ...
                2. Aqela
                  Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 36
                  0
                  I think that the conditions of use and tactics should be taken into account here. Well, for example, if the plane is in an unstable flight mode, then a bird in the turbine will show him "how much is a pound of dashing", and only 1,5 kg of RDX and a 40-ton tank will not like it, although it will not, of course, be blown to smithereens ...
              2. Aqela
                Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 33
                0
                Moreover, the A-10 aircraft is not just a jet, not just an attack aircraft, but a jet attack aircraft designed for combat operations in conditions of strong anti-aircraft fire ... Shooting down such a "warthog" with titanium armor is not an easy task! belay
            5. Iline
              Iline 30 November 2014 12: 26
              +12
              Especially for the professor.
              Following your logic and air defense systems are not capable of anything in the fight against jet aircraft. After all, that MANPADS, that the complexes solve essentially the same problems. Only everyone in their space.
              Only now I have not heard that Israel abandoned the Patriots and their Iron Domes.
              And about "Verba" I will say this - it is very good when such models of weapons come into service with their army. The range, the height of the application, the speed of the targets hit is impressive. By the way, 500 meters per second is more than Mach 1,5 speed of the target. This is the question of the uselessness of use against jet aircraft.
              1. Aqela
                Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 41
                0
                According to this logic - the air gun is also not at all scary, but what? a projectile is only 200-400 grams ...
            6. Non-jumping
              Non-jumping 30 November 2014 15: 10
              +3
              Yeah. Do not represent. The main thing is not to fly low wassat wassat wassat
            7. The comment was deleted.
            8. Throw
              Throw 30 November 2014 19: 43
              +4
              MANPADS do not pose a particular threat to jet aircraft. Their goals are light aircraft and rotorcraft. Lost about unmanned aerial vehicles. Today they are with an electric motor like Carlson. What is their thermal footprint?


              It is reactive and represent because of their high IR visibility.
              And where does the provocation about Carlson's electric motor come from? According to the Swedish residency of the GRU, he used a heat engine that runs on a mixture of low molecular weight carbohydrates of oligasaccharides and multi-seeded fruits (jam))
          4. Koshak
            Koshak 30 November 2014 12: 57
            +7
            Quote: The same Lech
            One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???

            200 grams of TNT are derailed.
          5. Buran
            Buran 30 November 2014 13: 36
            +3
            One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???


            Well, BB is different. Here, the power of the substance and the damaging elements of the product are more important. Yes, and they are mainly used in groups. And about drones. Most likely, mean BP. For small ones, a bullet is enough. Well, or a couple of bullets.
          6. Non-jumping
            Non-jumping 30 November 2014 14: 46
            +5
            Enough. The experience of combat use in Afghanistan showed that the Su-25 armor does not help against MANPADS. Moreover, against any, including with a much weaker warhead (and there which were not used). A MANPADS shot was almost guaranteed to shoot down the plane. But the Mi-24, sometimes damaged, reached the base or made an emergency landing. There were even cases when one helicopter withstood the hit of several missiles of different types. But this is still rare. Moreover, it was not so much armor that saved the Mi-24's exceptional survivability, which came as a surprise even to its developers. And in general, if my memory does not fail me - of all Soviet / Russian MANPADS, only Igla-S has more explosives than Verba, and even then not by many. But since the Verba complex is newer and there is very little information on it, it is not a fact that its warhead is less effective than that of Igla-S.
            1. Professor
              Professor 30 November 2014 14: 53
              +2
              Quote: non-jumping
              Enough. The experience of combat use in Afghanistan showed that the armor of the Su-25 against MANPADS does not help. And against any, including with a much weaker warhead (and there which just weren't used). A MANPADS shot almost guaranteed to bring down the plane.

              Sorry, but then your post did not read.



              Su-25 attack aircraft in Afghanistan
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 31
                +8
                This cannot be. Fake, photo montage. MANPADS are safe for jet aircraft.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 30 November 2014 15: 39
                  -3
                  Quote: Spade
                  This cannot be. Fake, photo montage. MANPADS are safe for jet aircraft.

                  Where did I say safe? Aw .... wassat
                  Maloeffektiny as we see here. Charted and again the pilot on his horse in battle.
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 59
                    +4
                    Quote: Professor
                    Maloeffektiny as we see here. Charted and again the pilot on his horse in battle.


                    Are you sure that the plane completed its combat mission?
                  2. Non-jumping
                    Non-jumping 30 November 2014 16: 04
                    +2
                    Have a talk? Yes, I'm not sure that the plane is generally subject to recovery. And with smaller at first glance, the damage was written off. And you seem to have forgotten or are not aware that the Su-25 in terms of booking has no analogues. But what about the rest?
              2. Non-jumping
                Non-jumping 30 November 2014 15: 44
                +3
                Well, then there were cases of emergency landing almost on one wing. For every plane I can’t know. Nevertheless, the photo speaks for itself.
          7. dmi.pris
            dmi.pris 30 November 2014 17: 09
            +3
            MANPADS missile hits the unarmored part of the aircraft (engine, nozzle). Another thing is that the engines are separated and Grach flies on one easily. Although one and a half kilograms for the aircraft is enough.
          8. stoqn477
            stoqn477 2 December 2014 20: 13
            0
            Quote: The same Lech
            One and a half kilo EXPLOSIONS ..... will there be enough to bring down an armored SU-25 ???

            Enough to break one engine, with luck the shooter can successfully removed the plane. But specifically, the Su-25 as a whole could be difficult to remove. Good machine.
    4. Civil
      Civil 30 November 2014 10: 33
      +1
      They say they went by remaking an aircraft rocket? They say it can hit targets with the active use of heat traps ...
    5. Reasonable, 2,3
      Reasonable, 2,3 30 November 2014 10: 33
      +4
      Yes, and the head is not bad. I'm talking about "Verba". What did you think? Heat traps do not help, they go into the engine and ignore them.
      1. FACKtoREAL
        FACKtoREAL 30 November 2014 11: 18
        +5
        If the sensitivity of the GOS through the IR channel allows the selection of engine radiation from the radiated heat trap, then ... now it will be up to creating heat traps with characteristics that simulate engine radiation.
        It seems that in the 80s, work was carried out on the periodic detonation of the fuel mixture outside the engine’s combustion chamber, at a distance of 10-15 meters from the plane, if my memory serves me right ...
        1. Professor
          Professor 30 November 2014 11: 33
          -10
          Quote: FACKtoREAL
          .Now it will be to create thermal traps with characteristics that simulate engine radiation

          No need for this. Modern tools such as the President and MusicC laser dazzle the seeker.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 37
            +5
            Quote: Professor
            Modern tools such as the President and MusicC laser dazzle the seeker.

            How much are they capable of blinding missiles at the same time?
            1. Professor
              Professor 30 November 2014 11: 42
              -2
              Quote: Spade
              How much are they capable of blinding missiles at the same time?

              I will use the Lopatov method, I will answer the question with a question. And how many missiles were simultaneously used in a real combat situation?
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 51
                +5
                For one purpose? Up to 27 missiles at a time.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 30 November 2014 11: 52
                  -4
                  Quote: Spade
                  For one purpose? Up to 27 missiles at a time.

                  Why not 270 or 2700?
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 30 November 2014 12: 00
                    +6
                    Because so much can one battery run.
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 30 November 2014 12: 04
                      -3
                      Quote: Spade
                      Because so much can run one battery.


                      Quote: Professor
                      And how many missiles at the same time in a real combat situation was applied?

                      Repeat question?
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 12: 17
                        +7
                        I observe a clear attempt to get away from an uncomfortable question.

                        For example, the Ukrainian modernized Mi-24 is capable of simultaneously jamming two missiles with interference.

                        Can a battery equipped with Verbs with a control complex synchronize the launch of three missiles at such a target? Definitely yes.
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 12: 45
                        -5
                        Quote: Spade
                        I observe a clear attempt to get away from an uncomfortable question.

                        Is it really unpleasant when they communicate with you using your own methods?
                        wink

                        Quote: Spade
                        For example, the Ukrainian modernized Mi-24 is capable of simultaneously jamming two missiles with interference.

                        Elbit does not report the number of missiles withdrawn (at least I did not find). I was not interested in the Russian system.

                        Quote: Spade
                        Can a battery equipped with Verbs with a control complex synchronize the launch of three missiles at such a target? Definitely yes.

                        Again, "maybe"? Of course it can. Maybe 270 missiles can be launched if the map falls, but in a real combat situation, such a massive simultaneous launch of MANPADS was not observed. For example Syria. How many aircraft were shot down there, but more and more with single shots.
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 13: 52
                        +6
                        Quote: Professor
                        Is it really unpleasant when they communicate with you using your own methods?

                        Unpleasant? Give it up. I just do not shout in your style "merged", although I have every right to do so.

                        Quote: Professor
                        Elbit does not report the number of missiles withdrawn (at least I did not find).

                        Elementary. How many laser installations, so many and simultaneously suppressed GOS.


                        Quote: Professor
                        Again, "maybe"? Of course it can. Maybe 270 missiles to launch if the card falls

                        Can not. Because the PU in the battery is only 27


                        Quote: Professor
                        but in a real combat situation, such a massive simultaneous launch of MANPADS was not observed. For example Syria

                        How interesting ... And in Syria, MANPADS calculations were controlled by a unified automated control and target designation system? Can I have a reference?

                        It seems that you simply do not understand what a "Verba" is. And as a commander of an anti-aircraft missile battery, he can not only point several calculations to one target, but also synchronize the launch on it.
                      4. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 25
                        -2
                        Quote: Spade
                        Elementary. How many laser installations, so many and simultaneously suppressed GOS.

                        No, it’s not elemental. I haven’t read anywhere that the laser must accompany the GOS throughout the entire flight of the rocket.

                        Quote: Spade
                        How interesting ... And in Syria, MANPADS calculations were controlled by a unified automated control and target designation system? Can I have a reference?

                        I’m not telling you about the Spheritz-horse in a vacuum, but about the actual use of MANPADS. So, as far as I know, massive simultaneous shelling of one target was not. If I am mistaken, then correct. And the fact that you can put 10, 100, 1000 fighters and simultaneously fill up the board, such theories are not interesting to me.
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 14: 50
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        I haven’t read anywhere that the laser must accompany the GOS throughout the entire flight of the rocket.

                        Until departure from the trajectory, for sure. But an automated control system can lead to several missiles simultaneously

                        Quote: Professor
                        I’m not telling you about the Spheritz-horse in a vacuum, but about the actual use of MANPADS.

                        Right. Decentralized use of MANPADS.
                        And here you are engaged in "spherokonina", considering that the "wild Russians" cannot have anything new.

                        The battery commander can detect the target either by his own means, or receive target designation from the senior commander and transmit target designation to the helmet-mounted indicators of all his 27 anti-aircraft gunners (not "10, 100, 1000 soldiers", namely 27). After the target enters the affected area, give a command to fire at this target.

                        The platoon commander also has this capability. But he has only 9 launchers under his command and the radar detects targets at ranges of up to 40 km. And he has no optical-electronic detection station.
                      6. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 59
                        -4
                        Quote: Spade
                        Until departure from the trajectory, for sure.

                        And this is how much time? Second, ten?

                        Quote: Spade
                        Right. Decentralized use of MANPADS.

                        Please give an example of the centralized use of MANPADS. After all, this is exactly what I am asking, an example.

                        Quote: Spade
                        The battery commander can detect the target either by his own means, or receive target designation from the senior commander and transmit target designation to the helmet-mounted indicators of all his 27 anti-aircraft gunners (not "10, 100, 1000 soldiers", namely 27). After the target enters the affected area, give a command to fire at this target.

                        Yeah. Now multiply the number of fighters in the battery by the number of batteries ...
                        In practice, how many MANPADS were used at all and how much was not decentralized?
                      7. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 37
                        +6
                        Quote: Professor
                        In practice, how many MANPADS were used at all and how much was not decentralized?

                        And how many tanks were destroyed by the Israeli "Merkava 4". And is it necessary from the fact that this number is zero, to conclude that this vehicle is not capable of fighting the enemy's armored vehicles?

                        What kind of game, what combat use of complexes that only go to the troops?
                      8. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 42
                        -4
                        Quote: Spade
                        What kind of game, what combat use of complexes that only go to the troops?

                        This is what we are talking about. They only go to the troops, not that they did not smell gunpowder, and even nobody sniffed them, and you are already talking about their effectiveness. Well, almost like having no taxes in the world, the Armat supertank.
                      9. picca2
                        picca2 3 December 2014 09: 41
                        0
                        What kind of trol is it? When is someone else? Doesn’t belong to himself? fellow
                        At a construction site, a Russian and a Jew wear bricks. A Jew wears one at a time, and a Russian at six. The Jew is asked:
                        “Why is a Russian wearing six bricks each, and you one at a time.”
                        - So you know what Russian lazy, he too lazy to go once again.
                      10. Aqela
                        Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 52
                        0
                        I think that the professor is just trolling, mocking. Those "truths" that he utters in this discussion can only be taken as a mockery.
                      11. Aqela
                        Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 50
                        0
                        Or maybe make a coordinated launch of all anti-aircraft weapons of all anti-aircraft weapons of all the armies of the world in one helicopter? Something you started to manipulate, well, with very delusional assumptions ... But if there were also aerial explosions of all nuclear warheads of all strategic missile forces + the main cadiber of all US battleships ... wassat
                      12. sivuch
                        sivuch 30 November 2014 15: 21
                        +5
                        And what centralized management of MANPADS could have been in '82? If sclerosis does not change, then only PEPs appeared.
                        Even now, all this splendor, as in this photo, is only in a few teams.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 07
                        +6
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Battery ... MANPADS ???


                        Sure. It is in the Ukrainian army that MANPADS can lie in a spare parts box under the car, like on their newest "Bastions"

                        And we use MANPADS anti-aircraft missile batteries. Formerly regimental, and now brigade submission
                2. FREGATENKAPITAN
                  FREGATENKAPITAN 30 November 2014 14: 19
                  +2
                  And the plane, as I understand it, hangs and waits ????
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 30 November 2014 14: 27
                    +3
                    And who will ask him, the plane? Will give the battalion commander, and 27 missiles will fly to the target.
              2. ROD VDVshny
                ROD VDVshny 30 November 2014 12: 04
                +23
                Quote: Professor
                And how many missiles were simultaneously used in a real combat situation?

                Anything can happen fellow laughing

                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 30 November 2014 12: 13
                  +6
                  Competently. From different angles. Even without complex management.
                2. Professor
                  Professor 30 November 2014 12: 17
                  -7
                  Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                  Anything can happen

                  Already two rockets? The 27th is here scaring us. laughing
                  By the way, the plane is not jet, but turboprop.
                  1. ROD VDVshny
                    ROD VDVshny 30 November 2014 12: 40
                    +20
                    Quote: Professor
                    Already two rockets?

                    Look again laughing three missiles. From the first he dodged. Professor, I am touched by your self-confidence.
                    Your army is fighting, by and large, with the enemy of the cave level. Aviation flies with impunity, practically in the absence of any air defense, we can say - polygon conditions. I wonder what will happen if the enemy has high-tech weapons? Will armored bulldozers be so free to lug around the outskirts of cities? Fly aviation? When will the real and stubborn adversary be?
                    Even a tank biathlon showed who the Arabs are.
                    And the ancient Needles shot down jet planes, several attack aircraft and fighters in the Donbass destroyed good
                    1. Professor
                      Professor 30 November 2014 13: 44
                      -3
                      Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                      Once again, look at the three missiles. From the first he dodged.

                      I didn’t make out. However, this does not change anything. The goal is huge, slow and screw.

                      Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                      Your army is fighting, by and large, with the enemy of the cave level.

                      For example, the armies of Egypt (which were visited by up to 10000 Soviet "advisers") and Syria, armed at that time better than the Tsakhal.


                      Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                      Aviation flies with impunity, practically in the absence of any air defense, we can say - polygon conditions.

                      Egyptian air defense in the 1970s, Syrian air defense in 1982?

                      Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                      I wonder what will happen if the enemy has high-tech weapons? Will armored bulldozers be so free to lug around the outskirts of cities? Fly aviation? When will the real and stubborn adversary be?

                      Was already like that. For example, the Arab Legion is unlikely to reproach cowardice.

                      Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                      And the ancient Needles shot down jet planes, several attack aircraft and fighters in the Donbass destroyed

                      I’m not saying that MANPADS are harmless. I argue that it is ineffective. In the same Donbas, it is still necessary to understand what Ukrainian aircraft shot down.
                      1. Stypor23
                        Stypor23 30 November 2014 13: 50
                        +9
                        Quote: Professor
                        In the same Donbas, it is still necessary to understand what Ukrainian aircraft shot down.

                        Are you worried about your own? wink
                        As far as I know, in your army MANPADS are not particularly common.
                      2. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 21
                        -7
                        Quote: Stypor23
                        Are you worried about your own?
                        As far as I know, in your army MANPADS are not particularly common.

                        Correctly. Because over 40 years of constant hostilities we have become convinced of the special "effectiveness" of MANPADS.
                      3. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 14: 28
                        +9
                        Quote: Professor
                        Correctly. Because over 40 years of constant hostilities we have become convinced of the special "effectiveness" of MANPADS.

                        And put protection systems against inefficient MANPADS on airplanes for the sake of cutting?
                      4. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 40
                        -2
                        Quote: Spade
                        And put protection systems against inefficient MANPADS on airplanes for the sake of cutting?

                        Show me one, at least one F-15 Heil Avira with such a system. It is put on those aircraft, the probability of which is most likely to suffer from MANPADS. For example, helicopters and passenger liners. And then do not confuse "not effective" and "harmless"
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 16
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        Show me one, at least one F-15 Hale Avira with such a system.

                        Dear, they simply do not enter the zone of their fire. 1000 m at catch-up in height at a target speed of up to 950 km / h
                      6. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 18
                        -2
                        Quote: Spade
                        Dear, they simply do not enter the zone of their fire. 1000 m at catch-up in height at a target speed of up to 950 km / h

                        It turns out that Israeli jet planes are not afraid of MANPADS? wink

                        And those videos and photos of Israeli falcons over Beirut and Gaza editing?
                      7. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 39
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        It turns out that Israeli jet planes are not afraid of MANPADS?

                        No, it turns out that Israeli planes have to fly higher, so that it would be more convenient for them to hit other air defense systems
                      8. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 43
                        -1
                        Quote: Spade
                        No, it turns out that Israeli planes have to fly higher, so that it would be more convenient for them to hit other air defense systems

                        Quote: Spade
                        And those videos and photos of Israeli falcons over Beirut and Gaza editing?
                      9. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 12
                        +1
                        What "videos and photos"?
                      10. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 16: 17
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        What "videos and photos"?

                        Those where Israeli planes are practically on a low-flying flight bombing defenseless Arabs. am
                      11. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 34
                        +1
                        I have never seen.
                      12. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 16: 39
                        -1
                        Quote: Spade
                        I have never seen.

                        Who would doubt that. This is not a centralized use of MANPADS, these are top-secret footage distributed by Arabs ...

                        All the best. Today you are tired of me. Lost half a day ...
                        hi
                      13. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 57
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        All the best. Today you are tired of me. Lost half a day ...


                        However, without proving anything. Especially in terms of "ineffectiveness of MANPADS". Which are in service with almost all countries in the world.

                        Next time, try to develop the "snowmobiles are ineffective" thesis. Israel does not produce them either.
                      14. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 21: 01
                        0
                        However, without proving anything. Especially in terms of "ineffectiveness of MANPADS". Which are in service with almost all countries in the world.


                        Blah blah blah. There are 3 grooms for one donkey, and 0.5 diggers for one advisor. Question? How many "advisers" were there in Egypt. Answer: Lopatov does not know, but as usual he cannot admit that he is wrong, since he is "always right."
                        Yes, and you can’t prove anything since you are stubborn as [deleted].
                        -That’s the link to you, I’m saying.
                        -"I do not believe".
                        -Let's say it.
                        - "No".
                        -Here is the information.
                        -"Can not be".
                        -Get yours.
                        - "No, but you merged ..."

                        Approximately such a dialogue.

                        On the road: http://www.strategypage.com/dls/articles/Proof-That-Russian-Missiles-Are-In-Gaza


                        -11-6-2012.asp
                      15. Stypor23
                        Stypor23 30 November 2014 14: 32
                        +1
                        Quote: Professor
                        Right. Because over 40 years of constant hostilities, we have become convinced of the special "effectiveness" of MANPADS

                        And you shoot them down.
                      16. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 14: 10
                        +5
                        Quote: Professor
                        visited by up to 10000 Soviet "advisers"

                        And why not 100, 000, 1?
                      17. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 22
                        -7
                        Quote: Spade
                        And why not 100, 000, 1?

                        Probably there were not so many politically savvy. Sources say only about 10.
                      18. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 14: 29
                        +5
                        Sources can say 127 or 456778. You can safely throw a source claiming "10" in the trash.
                      19. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 41
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Sources can say 127 or 456778. You can safely throw a source claiming "10" in the trash.

                        Double your numbers. How many were there? Enlighten pliz. wink
                      20. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 20
                        +2
                        And then I have to prove that there were 1 person per 10 Egyptians in the Egyptian army military advisers?
                        According to the adviser, damn it, in each department ...
                      21. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 21
                        -1
                        Quote: Spade
                        And then I have to prove that there were 1 person per 10 Egyptians in the Egyptian army military advisers?
                        According to the adviser, damn it, in each department ...

                        How many were there. What is the number?
                      22. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 41
                        +1
                        Only after you. You stated, you prove. The exact figure, which is either equal to or greater than 10 thousand people.
                      23. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 45
                        -1
                        Quote: Spade
                        Only after you. You stated, you prove. The exact figure, which is either equal to or greater than 10 thousand people.

                        I called: 10. I can show the exile. You do not believe it, so show your number and the reference to the number of MANPADS in Egypt, otherwise I waited all.

                        PS
                        I made a mistake, I repent. There were 20 of them (according to other sources, 000 thousand)

                        http://izvestiya.odessa.ua/ru/2013/02/16/sovetskie-voyska-v-egipte

                        After the untimely death of President G.A. Nasser On September 28, 1970, at the age of 52, Anwar Sadat was elected President, who almost immediately reoriented to the United States, setting himself the task of withdrawing the Soviet military contingent from Egypt. The main part of the twenty thousandth grouping of Soviet troops (according to other sources, 35 thousand) It was urgently withdrawn between July 17-27, 1972, although a limited number of Soviet military specialists remained in the Egyptian Armed Forces even after the withdrawal of the main Soviet military contingent until the October 1973 war.
                      24. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 13
                        +1
                        Well, is this reliable data? Reliable are not indicated in thousands.
                      25. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 16: 16
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Well, is this reliable data? Reliable are not indicated in thousands.

                        Let’s already have your data, otherwise we’re tired of absolutely unsupported mess
                      26. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 46
                        +1
                        Do you have something "backed up"? Quotes from Wiki?
                      27. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 20: 46
                        0
                        wink
                        http://izvestiya.odessa.ua/ru/2013/02/16/sovetskie-voyska-v-egipte

                        After the untimely death of President G.A. Nasser On September 28, 1970, at the age of 52, Anwar Sadat was elected President, who almost immediately reoriented to the United States, setting himself the task of withdrawing the Soviet military contingent from Egypt. The main part of the twenty thousandth grouping of Soviet troops (according to other sources, 35 thousand) It was urgently withdrawn between July 17-27, 1972, although a limited number of Soviet military specialists remained in the Egyptian Armed Forces even after the withdrawal of the main Soviet military contingent until the October 1973 war.
                      28. tilix
                        tilix 30 November 2014 15: 51
                        +2
                        from wiki
                        By 1972, there were about 20 thousand military advisers from the USSR in Egypt.
                      29. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 53
                        0
                        Quote: tilix
                        from wiki
                        By 1972, there were about 20 thousand military advisers from the USSR in Egypt.

                        From the opponent we will not even see the wiki.
                        Group of Soviet military experts in Egypt
                      30. tilix
                        tilix 30 November 2014 16: 00
                        +2
                        Even:
                        http://www.rus-sky.com/history/library/w/w10.htm#_Toc2489838
                        RUSSIA AND THE USSR IN THE WAR OF THE XX CENTURY

                        LOSS OF ARMED FORCES
                        Statistical study
                        recognizes 15.000
                      31. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 24
                        +2
                        Well, finally, the first numbers, similar to adequate. 42 dead people. This is with the dominance of advisers in the army, almost one in ten.

                        Well, now choose: are the Israelis not able to fight, or was the number of advisers in the troops, to put it mildly, small?
                      32. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 16: 26
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        Well, finally, the first numbers, similar to adequate. 42 dead people. This is with the dominance of advisers in the army, almost one in ten.

                        Well, now choose: are the Israelis not able to fight, or was the number of advisers in the troops, to put it mildly, small?

                        Where are your numbers? Will we wait?
                      33. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 45
                        +3
                        Only over Egypt over the years have passed about 500 translators.

                        One translator accounted for one or two advisers. Hence the conclusion: for all the time, from 500 to 1000 military advisers visited the Egyptian troops. Moreover, not at once, it must be borne in mind that military advisers, like translators, were replaced after 2 years.

                        And then 42 victims are a quite adequate figure, given that the advisers were at brigade levels and above.
                      34. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 20: 45
                        0
                        Your conclusions are not interesting to me. I am interested in numbers, links and sources and information which you do not have. I finish the conversation with you on this topic due to the lack of information from the interlocutor.
                      35. ROD VDVshny
                        ROD VDVshny 30 November 2014 14: 27
                        +4
                        Quote: Professor
                        For example, the armies of Egypt (which were visited by up to 10000 Soviet "advisers") and Syria, armed at that time better than the Tsakhal.

                        Quote: Professor
                        Egyptian air defense in the 1970s, Syrian air defense in 1982?

                        ... do not crush the authority of the local resident and the affairs of ancient years. Do not pull certain facts out of events; I know about the events themselves from my father and his colleagues, and I believe them more lol
                        In addition, I had a chance to "teach" myself for some time, and I know the abilities of Arab soldiers.
                        Quote: Professor
                        it is still necessary to understand what Ukrainian aircraft shot down.

                        Who needs it? Do not humble yourself, Professor .. laughing
                        sergey261180 I did not play, I do not play, and I will not. I have other interests, well, shoot-outs do not attract me. Video from the militia website, and ask Leontiev yourself laughing
                      36. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 14: 37
                        0
                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        ... do not crush the authority of the local resident and the affairs of ancient years. Do not pull certain facts out of events; I know about the events themselves from my father and his colleagues, and I believe them more

                        What are you talking about? And they told you how the Arabs won all these wars ...

                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        who needs? Do not humble yourself, Professor ..

                        Specialists and advanced laymen.
                      37. ROD VDVshny
                        ROD VDVshny 30 November 2014 15: 03
                        +4
                        Quote: Professor
                        Specialists and advanced laymen.

                        Nonsense ... the ears of "choral singing" are visible to the naked eye laughing
                        Quote: Professor
                        What are you talking about?

                        That's what I say, what I said at the beginning ... stsykuny Arabs, and there are few soldiers among them. Technically developed poorly, do not know how to learn and do not want to. This is Israeli happiness, otherwise you would have long been in the "pose of a running Egyptian" wassat I repeat - they didn’t take the Israelites by the throat for real, they did not touch the airfields, logistics and logistics, the fleet and coastal infrastructure. So you hang around with impunity on bulldozers in Gaza.
                      38. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 09
                        -2
                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        Nonsense ... the ears of "choral singing" are visible to the naked eye

                        Well then, let's get statistics. What, where, how and by whom it was shot down. Boeing can leave for dessert.


                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        That's what I say, what I said at the beginning ... stsykuny Arabs, and there are few soldiers among them. Technically developed poorly, do not know how to learn and do not want to. This is Israeli happiness, otherwise you would have long been in the "pose of a running Egyptian" I repeat - they did not take the Israelis by the throat for real, they did not touch the airfields, rear services and supplies, the fleet and coastal infrastructure. So you hang around with impunity on bulldozers in Gaza.

                        So many words. Ask your father how many "advisers" were there and what they did. And also ask about the Arab Legion.
                      39. ROD VDVshny
                        ROD VDVshny 30 November 2014 16: 19
                        +2
                        Quote: Professor
                        Well then let's statistics

                        Don't jump off laughing I only have a shovel, for the dowry to Psaki ... she has a ready-made answer to everything, and your points of view surprisingly coincide.
                        Quote: Professor
                        ask your father how many "advisers" were there

                        When "there" I will be, and if I go through the same department - by all means.
                      40. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 16: 22
                        -3
                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        Do not just jump off my shovel, after giving to Psaki ... she has a ready-made answer to everything, and your points of view surprisingly coincide.

                        Then leave it all at the level of the OBS.

                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        When "there" I will be, and if I go through the same department - by all means.

                        ... but for now, be content with my data. Since there are no others.
                      41. And Us Rat
                        And Us Rat 30 November 2014 15: 50
                        -2
                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        I repeat - they didn’t take the Israelites by the throat for real, they did not touch the airfields, logistics and logistics, the fleet and coastal infrastructure.


                        Didn't take - doesn't mean "didn't try"
                        Didn't take it - it means "nobody succeeded"

                        We do not have a rear in the war, and therefore the enemy’s weapons capable of causing the above damage are destroyed first of all, even before operational deployment and often even in warehouses. For this, intelligence also eats its own bread - we know the coordinates in real time, of everything that can be a strategic threat, within a radius of several thousand km from our borders.
                      42. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 16: 26
                        +3
                        Quote: And Us Rat
                        Didn't take - doesn't mean "didn't try"
                        Didn't take it - it means "nobody succeeded"

                        They didn’t take it, which means Leonid Ilyich regretted
                      43. Aqela
                        Aqela 2 December 2014 13: 21
                        0
                        I think that there is useless argumentation. Guys, how will macaques soon be banana skins tossed about?
                        The fact that the Jews are not bad soldiers has long been known. Many of them are among the Heroes of the Soviet Union. So there is no need to play down the resilience of the army and special services of Israel with mockery. And the level of technical development speaks for itself at all. Another thing is that Israel cannot be an example. At least because of the small territory of the state and the large concentration of the population in it. So, what for, for example, the MANPADS Jews, if they have mobile systems, and stationary, in abundance block the whole sky?
                      44. sergey261180
                        sergey261180 30 November 2014 15: 00
                        0
                        Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                        sergey261180 I did not play, I do not play, and I will not. I have other interests, well, shoot-outs do not attract me. Video from the militia website, and ask Leontiev yourself

                        But in vain. In vain, in vain, in vain. Absolutely, inappropriately try! Great thing! These explosions immediately seemed familiar to me. Leontyev would ask, what's the point - he will lie as always. Gonilovo is his profession.
                      45. ROD VDVshny
                        ROD VDVshny 30 November 2014 16: 04
                        +2
                        Quote: sergey261180
                        But in vain. In vain, in vain, in vain. Absolutely, inappropriately try!

                        Never laughing Either I had run to my fill in my life, but these toys do not appeal to me stop I looked at my son’s computer ... not impressive.
                        Yes, and there is no time for them - I have other passions laughing
                      46. Maksim...
                        Maksim... 30 November 2014 14: 41
                        +1
                        In the same Donbas, it is still necessary to understand what Ukrainian aircraft shot down.

                        Tell me, dear professor, have you noticed any other air defense systems besides MANPADS and ZAKs? Not?
                      47. sivuch
                        sivuch 30 November 2014 15: 23
                        +1
                        For example, the armies of Egypt (which were visited by up to 10000 Soviet "advisers") and Syria, armed at that time better than the Tsakhal.
                        ----------------------
                        Which phrase refers to which year?
                        Yes, and in the continuation of the discussion, the search for Syrian air defense bases in Google gave a positive result?
                      48. Professor
                        Professor 30 November 2014 15: 28
                        -1
                        Quote: sivuch
                        Which phrase refers to which year?

                        And when was the war between Egypt and Israel? Take any of them and my statement will be true. The same is with Syria.
                        Yes, and in the continuation of the discussion, the search for Syrian air defense bases in Google gave a positive result?

                        Banned in Google? It happens. wassat
                        http://www.ausairpower.net/APA-Syria-SAM-Deployment.html
                        http://www.slideshare.net/ISWPress/syrian-air-force-air-defense-overview
                        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Syrian_Air_Force_bases
                      49. sivuch
                        sivuch 30 November 2014 16: 55
                        +2
                        I looked through all 3 of your filkin letters, sorry, links. In the first and third shells are not mentioned at all, in the second - by the edge of the ear, but, of course, without a specific location. So where is the required evidence that the Shells were in the Jormaya area at the time of the bombing?
                        ------------------------------------
                        And when was the war between Egypt and Israel? Take any of them and my statement will be true. The same is with Syria.
                        And this is complete nonsense. At least they had learned the materiel. Especially -82. In 73 it was better (for Egypt and Syria, of course)
                  2. sergey261180
                    sergey261180 30 November 2014 13: 30
                    -2
                    Quote: Professor
                    By the way, the plane is not jet, but turboprop.

                    Digital airplane! Take a closer look.
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 30 November 2014 13: 56
                      +4
                      It is intended.

                      No, dear, this is a simple camera and maximum zoom. Grab your cell phone, step out onto the balcony and you can see a lot of digital people on the street.
                      1. Maksim...
                        Maksim... 30 November 2014 14: 44
                        +1
                        Sergey is right. On YouTube, it is explicitly stated that this is a simulation of a downfall.
                      2. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 22
                        +1
                        Read carefully.

                        I tried to improve the quality - unfortunately this is the maximum.
                      3. Maksim...
                        Maksim... 30 November 2014 15: 56
                        0
                        Read:
                        They sent a unique video - shooting simulation An-26 or An-30 at maximum approximation.
                      4. sergey261180
                        sergey261180 30 November 2014 14: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Spade
                        No, dear, this is a simple camera and maximum zoom. Grab your cell phone, step out onto the balcony and you can see a lot of digital people on the street.

                        Good. Then where does the smoke go?
                      5. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 30 November 2014 15: 42
                        +1
                        Have you ever tried to greatly enlarge a picture?
                  3. Aqela
                    Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 58
                    0
                    That is, it turns out, in your opinion, a jet plane is more resistant to damage?
                3. sergey261180
                  sergey261180 30 November 2014 13: 24
                  -4
                  Quote: CONNECTING ROD VDVshny
                  Anything can happen

                  This game is taken from DCS LOCK ON? Or did Misha Leontiev fly? lol
                4. Aqela
                  Aqela 2 December 2014 12: 56
                  0
                  Mdya ... A convincing argument and not come up with ... Everything - with my own eyes ...
          2. almost demobil
            almost demobil 30 November 2014 12: 18
            +4
            Quote: Professor
            Modern facilities such as the President and MusicS laser dazzle the seeker.

            In order to blind a rocket, it is necessary to start the launch of that rocket first. And how to detect a missile launch from you with TGS? Maybe you know, so make it clear.
            1. Hagalaz
              Hagalaz 30 November 2014 12: 59
              +7
              Pay attention, the professor is engaged in verbiage. And in general, at first I requested data on the number of MANPADS shot down by modern jet planes, but received them (see above) prudently (for its part) is silent about it.
              Professor, now provide data on the number of MANPADS blinded by a laser. Maybe I will accept your point of view.
              1. Professor
                Professor 30 November 2014 13: 52
                -4
                Quote: Hagalaz
                Pay attention, the professor is engaged in verbiage.

                And then?

                Quote: Hagalaz
                And in general, at first I requested data on the number of MANPADS shot down by modern jet planes, but received them (see above) prudently (for its part) is silent about it.

                I asked for efficiency against jet aircraft.

                Quote: Hagalaz
                Professor, now provide data on the number of MANPADS blinded by a laser. Maybe I will accept your point of view.

                I do not have such data. I know that in Gaza this summer there were attempts to use PZKR against Israeli aircraft, but they were in vain. I do not have statistics.
                1. Hagalaz
                  Hagalaz 30 November 2014 20: 37
                  0
                  What?
                  What does it mean by efficiency? You were given the number and class of downed during one fairly short campaign. How many starts and how many hits? So nobody will tell you this. What practical effectiveness can we talk about under different conditions of use and a different level of skill of shooters?
                  Well, you see, you do not have specific information on the specific combat use of the systems you described. But I have a question, in conditions of intense combat, on the ground and in the air, with an abundance of fire flashes, how will these systems determine and determine the desired launch? What will be the effectiveness?
                  1. Aqela
                    Aqela 2 December 2014 20: 11
                    0
                    I especially liked the exact numerical statistical estimate. "there were attempts to use MANPADS against Israeli aviation, but they were in vain" ... I am delighted! And the average reliability? Median deviation? Dalta Sigma? Statistical sampling criteria? Still, maybe some statistical coefficients? Come on professor!
            2. Professor
              Professor 30 November 2014 13: 49
              +1
              Quote: almost demobilized
              In order to blind a rocket, it is necessary to start the launch of that rocket first. And how to detect a missile launch from you with TGS? Maybe you know, so make it clear.

              Using a thermal imager, they scan the lower hemisphere and see the launch of a rocket. Further, a matter of technology. The system has passed a series of tests, adopted and deployed even on civilian liners.

              http://megafon-news.co.il/asys/archives/158187
              1. Stypor23
                Stypor23 30 November 2014 14: 47
                +1
                Quote: Professor
                The system has passed a series of tests, adopted and deployed even on civilian liners.

                Here is the news. Listen, you Israelis, never cease to amaze. At this pace, you will make each passenger an ejection seat.
                1. Professor
                  Professor 30 November 2014 14: 56
                  0
                  Quote: Stypor23
                  Here is the news. Listen, you Israelis, never cease to amaze. At this pace, you will make each passenger an ejection seat.

                  At the expense of the catapult, I do not mind. laughing
                  1. Stypor23
                    Stypor23 30 November 2014 15: 07
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    Quote: Stypor23
                    Here is the news. Listen, you Israelis, never cease to amaze. At this pace, you will make each passenger an ejection seat.

                    At the expense of the catapult, I do not mind. laughing

                    Then immediately contact NPP Zvezda.
                  2. Aqela
                    Aqela 2 December 2014 20: 15
                    0
                    Yeah. And for each seat - a survival kit: a bulletproof vest, a helmet, a Galil machine gun, 120 rounds of ammunition, 2 defensive grenades of the F-1 type, a gas mask and a dry ration for 1 day. All this in a knapsack attached to the ejection passenger seat. And charming stewardesses give a short three-hour briefing at the beginning of the flight. If the flight takes less time, no one is released from the plane until the end of the class ... lol
                2. tilix
                  tilix 30 November 2014 15: 39
                  +2
                  And then:
                  http://www.jpost.com/Israel-News/Elbit-will-install-anti-missile-lasers-on-Germa
                  n-Air-Force-planes-382012? utm_source = twitterfeed & utm_medium = twitter
              2. Iline
                Iline 30 November 2014 17: 57
                +1
                In this matter, the professor is right. Our aircraft (Tu-95MS and Tu-160) are equipped with direction finders, which record the fact of the launch of any missile over 250 kilometers.
                Well, then a matter of technology. Everything is calculated, up to the type of aircraft that used weapons, air defense systems, etc.
            3. saag
              saag 30 November 2014 17: 00
              0
              Quote: almost demobilized
              And how to detect a missile launch from you with TGS?

              or millimeter-wave radar or thermal imager
          3. Reasonable, 2,3
            Reasonable, 2,3 2 December 2014 22: 06
            0
            Again he drew himself. Go home, professor.
    6. ya.seliwerstov2013
      ya.seliwerstov2013 30 November 2014 10: 35
      +2
      Quote: svp67
      Another good news for the New Year good

      In the name of peace, our armourer is working,
      In the name of national security,
      So that the power and strength of all of Russia,
      From afar were visible.
    7. sub307
      sub307 30 November 2014 11: 02
      +2
      And the characteristics are very "pleasant" (naturally for the "arlter"):
      Warhead weight, kg: 1,5
      Range of action, m: 500-6400
      Defeat height, m: 10—4500
      Target speed, m / s: up to 500
      MANPADS reaction time, sec .: up to 8
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 30 November 2014 11: 28
        +2
        Well, okay! Now there is something to recruit the enemy! wassat
    8. The comment was deleted.
    9. vodolaz
      vodolaz 30 November 2014 12: 55
      +1
      Yeah, it’s necessary to bring down some dill helicopters with thermal imagers.
    10. The comment was deleted.
    11. The comment was deleted.
  2. Giant thought
    Giant thought 30 November 2014 10: 20
    +1
    This Willow will cause many heads to bury in our land when falling after they are shot down.
  3. svetlomor
    svetlomor 30 November 2014 10: 22
    +3
    All the same, our gunsmiths come up with romantic names.
    1. tol100v
      tol100v 30 November 2014 11: 14
      +1
      Quote: svetlomor
      All the same, our gunsmiths come up with romantic names.

      Orthodox Christians also have a good holiday "Verbokhlest"!
    2. Aqela
      Aqela 2 December 2014 20: 17
      0
      Yeah. Very nice titles. Especially "Buratino" and "Medvedka".
  4. D-Master
    D-Master 30 November 2014 10: 23
    +2
    The article is quite old. This was reported in the media three days ago. But that doesn't change the great news. "Verba" is not inferior in characteristics to the American "stinger", and in my opinion it even surpasses it in range. The modernization of the army, with the introduction of new types of weapons, is going well, and this cannot but rejoice.
    1. mervino2007
      mervino2007 1 December 2014 12: 54
      0
      D-Master RU  "VERBA" is not inferior to the American "stinger" in characteristics.

      Stinger's range = 8000m. True, the source is the Israeli press.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 30 November 2014 10: 24
    +1
    As far as I remember from the performance characteristics, the reach of the "Willow" in height is 4.5 km! And from such a height it is no longer so visible, and not so apt.
  6. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 30 November 2014 10: 25
    +3
    At the end of the year, the 2 divisional and 2 brigade sets of “Verba” MANPADS Kolomenskoye KBM delivered to the Russian Armed Forces.

    However, it will not be enough, we need a lot, a lot.
    1. Revolver
      Revolver 30 November 2014 10: 28
      +3
      They put them in the wrong place. It was necessary to the militia in the Donbass, there is a chance to experience in real combat conditions.
      1. Boris55
        Boris55 30 November 2014 10: 34
        +2
        Quote: Nagan
        They put them in the wrong place. It was necessary in the Donbass militias ...

        Any action causes a reaction. Do not untie the West.
      2. xavbek7
        xavbek7 30 November 2014 10: 35
        +2
        so helicopters and airplanes fall at the dill, not themselves, after all))) maybe "Verba" helps ..
      3. tol100v
        tol100v 30 November 2014 11: 27
        +3
        Quote: Nagan
        , there is a chance to experience in real combat conditions.

        There we will not begin to test!
    2. The comment was deleted.
  7. killganoff
    killganoff 30 November 2014 10: 26
    +2
    The high sensitivity of the seeker can seriously affect noise immunity. it is interesting that here our craftsmen made up their minds?
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 November 2014 10: 49
      +2
      Any aerial target has a specific IR signature. Modern missiles with passive IR seeker can aim not only at "hot" targets. but also for those that are colder than the surrounding space.

      Accordingly, the IR traps being fired will not lead such a missile away. True, there are optoelectronic devices capable of clogging the seeker with interference, but the problem is solved by the group launch of several missiles from different angles. Start synchronization is carried out by a control system
    2. dauria
      dauria 30 November 2014 11: 00
      +1
      also thought about it ... Secondary signal processing gave a good increase in the probability of defeat. And processors now allow you to copy something like reflexes. A rough example: your hearing is being tested, you are facing the wall, the doctor mutters something in a whisper. You expect to hear Russian speech, namely numbers like "sixty-six". Under such conditions, a Russian deaf old woman will have a better recognition result than a young negro who speaks only English.

      I think this is not about the "classical" sensitivity (the minimum signal level until the required signal / noise is obtained), but in the analysis of signal behavior, its probable changes, and possibly signatures.
  8. Denis fj
    Denis fj 30 November 2014 10: 29
    +1
    Now you can arrange Palm Sunday not only once a year, but weekly and even daily. The dill from this willow will wither completely, and on nindoc.v it will act like incense on the devils.
    1. Penelope
      Penelope 30 November 2014 10: 40
      +1
      It’s good that the new weapons come to our army.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Koshak
      Koshak 30 November 2014 13: 20
      0
      Quote: Denis fj
      Now you can arrange Palm Sunday not only once a year, but weekly and even daily. The dill from this willow will wither completely, and on nindoc.v it will act like incense on the devils.

      And where dill pick up aviation on a daily and even weekly Palm Sunday?
  9. fomkin
    fomkin 30 November 2014 10: 41
    0
    Like a balm for the soul. And then by 20 or 25. The mood has risen.
  10. Vitaly Anisimov
    Vitaly Anisimov 30 November 2014 10: 43
    +6
    Where is the dill aviation ..? Boring something .. became (last half a year)))) bully
    1. almost demobil
      almost demobil 30 November 2014 12: 22
      0
      The photo is already outdated, the motorcycle helmet has changed soldier
  11. BOB044
    BOB044 30 November 2014 10: 49
    +2
    Good news. It's always nice to read that your country has become a little stronger. Nice to hell. good
  12. saag
    saag 30 November 2014 10: 51
    -2
    Since there are video complexes in harness with GPS that allow you to determine the coordinates of a ground target without the need to hover over it, I would have screwed the thermal imager and air-to-ground missile with the warhead to the drone as a counter to the bet, I bet it would be difficult for the MANPADS operators days :-) This sport would become deadly :-)
    1. Lopatov
      Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 10
      +1
      Quote: saag
      Since there are video complexes in harness with GPS that allow you to determine the coordinates of a ground target without the need to hover over it, I would, as a reaction, also screw a thermal imager and an air-to-ground missile with a warhead to the drone

      The thermal imager is cool. It's fashionable, it's trending ...
      But byala, the thermal imager is not able to unambiguously identify the anti-aircraft gunner until the moment when he, on command of the control system, picks up MANPADS before the launch.

      So I'm afraid your RP missile from a drone will hit only an abandoned empty TPK
      1. saag
        saag 30 November 2014 11: 34
        -1
        Quote: Spade
        But byala, the thermal imager is not able to unambiguously identify the anti-aircraft gunner until the moment when he, on command of the control system, picks up MANPADS before the launch.

        but it is not necessary, the thermal imager detects ground targets of the "human, as potential" type, from the moment the missile is launched according to the coordinates of the target an air-to-surface missile is sent, the missile warhead is detonated at a height of, say, 10 meters and the operator's corpse is found near the TPK
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 30 November 2014 11: 46
          +1
          Quote: saag
          but it is not necessary, the thermal imager detects ground targets of the "man

          And how many human-type targets are there in a motorized rifle brigade?

          Quote: saag
          from the moment the missile is launched at the coordinates of the target, an air-to-surface missile is sent

          If at this moment the thermal imager was aimed at the launch site

          Quote: saag
          A missile warhead is blown up at an altitude of say 10 meters and an operator’s corpse is found near the TPK

          Not far from the TPK, you can find a trench. Well, or the standard vehicle of anti-aircraft gunners BMP-2 (3) "Operator's corpse" cheerfully tells about the fact that "rumors about my death are exaggerated."
          1. saag
            saag 30 November 2014 16: 53
            0
            Quote: Spade
            And how many human-type targets are there in a motorized rifle brigade?

            it doesn’t matter, the whole team will not crowd on a patch
            Quote: Spade
            If at this moment the thermal imager was aimed at the launch site

            the field of vision is needed - the lower hemisphere and then not all
            Quote: Spade
            Not far from the TPK, you can find a trench. Well, or the standard vehicle of anti-aircraft gunners BMP-2 (3) "Operator's corpse" cheerfully tells about the fact that "rumors about my death are exaggerated."


            it may turn out to be a trench, only if a warhead is blown up at a height it may not save how lucky it is, but an infantry fighting vehicle is generally a great gift, a rocket with a cumulative warhead and greetings to anti-aircraft gunners
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 30 November 2014 17: 01
              +1
              Quote: saag
              it doesn’t matter, the whole team will not crowd on a patch

              Exactly. And follow everyone. Suddenly he will pick up a pipe from the ground ...


              Quote: saag
              BMP, so this is generally a gorgeous gift, a rocket with a cumulative warhead and hello to anti-aircraft gunners

              So high-explosive or cumulative?
              Do not forget, the UAV bomb load is not like that of the B-52
  13. sv68
    sv68 30 November 2014 10: 51
    0
    but at a price more expensive than a "needle", and if so, is it much more expensive or not? just a new weapon, even in a series, is rarely equal in value to an analogue. Therefore, I wonder about the cost of "willow".
  14. crambol
    crambol 30 November 2014 10: 54
    +2
    The kit includes .... state recognition equipment ....



    A miracle, not a rocket! He brought, and she in a human voice: Vasenka, dolbo. . This is ours!


  15. EGR
    EGR 30 November 2014 10: 55
    +1
    Quote: svp67
    Another good news for the New Year good
  16. Alser
    Alser 30 November 2014 11: 23
    0
    The correct question about the cost. 4 sets will not save the Russian Armed Forces, the Needles and Strela are too early to write off, they will still fight, if necessary.
  17. Grigorievich
    Grigorievich 30 November 2014 11: 25
    0
    Good news (although there was already an article on VO about this system), but why the name "Willow"? There were "Needle" "Arrow", and then "pussy willow", as there is no sequence.
  18. Tribuns
    Tribuns 30 November 2014 11: 25
    +1
    Ultra-sensitive head ... when aiming the projectile at the target, it's great! If the Yankees begin to supply Kiev with lethal weapons, then the "Verba" should decorate the "arsenal table" of the Donbass militias ... Moreover, the punitive forces plan to put into operation night-action MI-24P helicopters ...
    1. Vitaly Anisimov
      Vitaly Anisimov 30 November 2014 11: 48
      0
      Quote: TribunS
      Moreover, the punitive plans to put into operation night-action MI-24P helicopters ...

      Great goal!
  19. pahom54
    pahom54 30 November 2014 12: 01
    0
    In general, the Kolomo residents are good fellows who regularly issue good military equipment to the mountain, despite various difficulties. It would be like them, the whole industry worked for us! With agriculture in addition ... Dreams, dreams ...
  20. Dinko
    Dinko 30 November 2014 12: 13
    +1
    Good thing, does not respond to heat traps and is guided through three channels.
  21. Anchonsha
    Anchonsha 30 November 2014 13: 33
    0
    Wow, what a controversy unfolded among the sofa inmates about the new MANPADS "Verba". I will also add. If the Kolomenty armed units of our army with this MANPADS, then this is also adopted for service and therefore is considered the best of those that already exist. After all, no one will take into the army what is unnecessary under the current Minister of Defense.
  22. Prager
    Prager 30 November 2014 15: 22
    0
    more is needed, more, in all the troops! soldier
  23. Non-jumping
    Non-jumping 30 November 2014 15: 54
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    This cannot be. Fake, photo montage. MANPADS are safe for jet aircraft.

    Even useful laughing
  24. ZAM
    ZAM 30 November 2014 16: 28
    +2
    In principle, the step is expected ... The arrow is already a little outdated, but it is relevant for all those flying before. The willow will solve the problem and those that will fly. By the way, the "arrow" works well.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. gorsten79
    gorsten79 30 November 2014 18: 02
    0
    Someone tell me, the brigade kit for the ground forces and the divisional kit for the airborne forces, how many in numbers? And by the way, nobody knows the states of the motorized rifle brigade? (By the number of military personnel, by technology).
  27. ALEXXX1983
    ALEXXX1983 30 November 2014 18: 58
    0
    Quote: Viking
    Strela and Strela-1 were

    arrow 2 and 2m yes
    arrow 1 self-propelled complex, not portable No.
  28. Signore Tomato
    Signore Tomato 30 November 2014 19: 50
    0
    Quote: Vulpo
    Quote: Professor
    And then what did he write at all? No one to chat with? Loneliness?

    laughing laughing Well, listen, stop completely discrediting your nation, with your "near" logic! I ask you! hi


    No matter how much I watch the "Jewoid" nation, the only thing I see is the obstinacy that is called, "Like a ram on a new gate." It doesn't smell like any logic.
  29. IAlex
    IAlex 30 November 2014 20: 36
    0
    Something this MANPADS is somehow slowed down, 8 seconds from the moment the target was detected to the launch of the rocket - doooooooooooooooooooooooo long at a target speed of 500 m / s, it will leave the affected area in just 9 seconds ...
  30. Radikal
    Radikal 30 November 2014 21: 03
    -1
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Spade
    I heard. According to the stories of Israeli pilots, MANPADS were so often launched against them that the number of launches suddenly exceeded the number of all missiles produced.

    At least Israeli sources (unlike Soviet ones) were not caught lying. And Egypt did not refute these figures. Well, about the number of missiles produced is nothing more than your fantasies. By the way, how much do you think MANPADS were used then? After all, you know once so confidently affirm it. wink

    Back in Soviet times, I once had a chance to communicate with an interesting person in the same company. During the Syrian-Israeli conflict, he worked at our embassy in Damascus. And under a glass of tea he told a curious story. We are going, he says, somehow along the highway from Damascus to some settlement for work. The track passes through the desert, here, as usual, "itch"! Where to find a natural need? Not a single fence or barn around. On the highway, cars scurry back and forth. Somehow they reached some dilapidated building and ran there. We were engaged in an "important" business, and suddenly a voice from behind: "Guys, can you find a smoke?" In the purest Russian. (I omit their emotions) Look around - a character is standing, dressed according to the host country, with a Slavic ("Ryazan") face, and smiling. After the comrades have acquired the ability to speak, they ask him: "Man, where are you from, and what are you doing here?" Answer: "I am working." Where do you work and where is your job? He: "This is my work," and swept his hand around the neighborhood. And around .... here and there are wreckage of Israeli aircraft. These planes were returning after bomb attacks on the Syrian capital, on low level flight. The pilots, after a successfully completed mission, are naturally a little relaxed, and then "hello to you over the fence!" The man worked with "Arrows", of which there were few in the troops even then. Here's a story. This is to the question of testing in combat conditions, well, and the answer to the Professor. soldier
    1. Professor
      Professor 30 November 2014 21: 15
      -1
      Quote: Radikal
      And under a glass of tea he told a curious story.

      How I like these stories retold from the words of "eyewitnesses". Tomorrow at work I will tell the veterans like one frame in the forum told me how about 25 years ago, in a state of average alcoholic intoxication, another frame told him how he allegedly met a third frame in Syria who, with his words, shot down the relaxed Israeli pilots from MANPADS. Yes, he shot down so much that "here and there the wreckage of Israeli aircraft is lying around." bully
    2. IAlex
      IAlex 1 December 2014 17: 29
      +1
      Just so in a semi-desert in the sun at 50 - 55 degrees a man from Ryazan came from nowhere? It was necessary to smoke less to the dude who told it. And by the way, there all the officers who managed to sap vodaru in such a heat simply ended either from heart attacks or strokes ...

      There were a lot of Russians there, for example, I don’t deny this, including the military and builders, because the first and second of the Arabs somehow do not work out very well, do not give them anything, they will ruin everything ...

      By the way, I don’t know how it is in the Merkava, but I can honestly say that in our tanks and armored personnel carriers in Syria during the day it’s just a grill for people. Yes, and their leadership clearly was not like in the USSR, that in the army that in civilian life, if they decided to wet the Arabs, they would wet it, and not like shit in the hole, they cheeks are blowing, but they are afraid to do, as a result, we get a full G ...

      T.ch. I do not see the reasons for your pathos ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
  31. tilix
    tilix 30 November 2014 21: 28
    -1
    Grandfather, did you listen to the radical?
    And the price to those fables in the name of the storyteller, and what is characteristic, still have not been told
    about losses in 82 year.
    And the ambition - well, right by name.
  32. Mindaugas
    Mindaugas 30 November 2014 21: 30
    +1
    Good news. Here I dig some of those. data
    Engine - RTTT
    TTX MANPADS:
    Mass of warhead - 1.5 kg
    Range of action - 500-6400 m
    Foam height - 10-4500 m
    Target speed - up to 500 m / s
    MANPADS reaction time - up to 8 s
  33. Radikal
    Radikal 30 November 2014 22: 25
    0
    Quote: tilix
    Grandfather, did you listen to the radical?
    And the price to those fables in the name of the storyteller, and what is characteristic, still have not been told
    about losses in 82 year.
    And the ambition - well, right by name.

    I understand your and the previous commentator's offended patriotic feelings, and ... I sympathize, but I want to disappoint you, what I said was also mentioned in open sources, though without mentioning such details, details and specific persons. "Seek, and you will find!"
    1. The comment was deleted.
  34. Aandrewsir
    Aandrewsir 30 November 2014 23: 43
    +1
    Good news!
  35. tilix
    tilix 30 November 2014 23: 43
    -2
    I understand your and the previous commentator's insulted patriotic feelings
    What feelings, young man, are we glad to see you. Lie more, lie harder, lie harder comrades. What do their busurmans feel sorry for?

    "And all this is the price of shit!"
    Yaroslav Hasek. Adventures of the Good Soldier Schweik

    Would you tell the truth to the radical?
  36. Radikal
    Radikal 1 December 2014 00: 34
    0
    Quote: tilix
    I understand your and the previous commentator's insulted patriotic feelings
    What feelings, young man, are we glad to see you. Lie more, lie harder, lie harder comrades. What do their busurmans feel sorry for?

    "And all this is the price of shit!"
    Yaroslav Hasek. Adventures of the Good Soldier Schweik

    Would you tell the truth to the radical?

    "Jupiter you are angry, then you are wrong!" hi
    1. tilix
      tilix 1 December 2014 00: 48
      -1
      Who is angry? What a wretched manner of attributing to someone their narrow-minded fantasies? And all the radical?
      About times about Morals. There are also different sayings that are not relevant to the case but will help you to feel better. And you forgot about tenlaughing>. There are those who are considered the highest sign of rightness.
  37. Radikal
    Radikal 1 December 2014 01: 23
    0
    Quote: tilix
    Who is angry? What a wretched manner of attributing to someone their narrow-minded fantasies? And all the radical?
    About times about Morals. There are also different sayings that are not relevant to the case but will help you to feel better. And you forgot about tenlaughing>. There are those who are considered the highest sign of rightness.

    As I understand it, you have no arguments refuting my first comment, so you decided to arrange a competition of intellects and wit, and you completely retired from the topic. And this is understandable. It looks approximately like in the good old interlude between Ilchenko and Kartsev, where the first one demands - "Argument!", The second answers - "I argue!", The first - "How are you arguing ?!", the second - "Argуcop !!! ". That's about how you. wassat
    1. tilix
      tilix 1 December 2014 09: 00
      -1
      What are the arguments? For what?
      I heard that my neighbor’s neighbor, his cousin, when he was walking around Syria, suddenly stumbled upon a field and there hundreds of Soviet tanks were hit. And a little Jew stands nearby and says, all this I imposed and my comrades. And hell, the Jew is calling Avigdor Kahalani, and all this is confirmed. No, since I’m not lying to the radical writers. What are you arguing with your lies? Nothing. It seems in Russian it is called a star.
      And I don’t know, it’s living in Russia to grieve - after all, they will overwhelm the country, or rejoice that they do not overwhelm us.
      1. Professor
        Professor 1 December 2014 09: 04
        -1
        About Kahalani, this is no longer interesting, a classic. You tell them how Shaul Mofaz beat Iraqi tanks on the Iraq-Syrian border. Let them precipitate. wink
      2. IAlex
        IAlex 1 December 2014 17: 42
        0
        Do not worry, our storytellers-patriots are the same as yours ...
  38. Radikal
    Radikal 1 December 2014 20: 16
    0
    Quote: Professor
    About Kahalani, this is no longer interesting, a classic. You tell them how Shaul Mofaz beat Iraqi tanks on the Iraq-Syrian border. Let them precipitate. wink

    Ek, how you got it all! Well, your patriotism deserves respect. However, you go along a very widespread and easy way, think in a principle: what I don’t know, didn’t see, or don’t remember, it wasn’t! In an extreme case, contact the Mossad (if you have friends), there, unlike you, I think the objective gentlemen are comrades and have reliable information on this issue. I, for quite certain reasons, understandable to military people, are not going to help you! So that's it, comrades Einstein, and his assistant (or graduate student). hi
    1. tilix
      tilix 2 December 2014 17: 09
      -1
      Which Mossad? I’m telling you LIE for the third time !!! I called you a liar, but for obvious reason (you are a liar), you unsubscribe instead of evidence. Well, prove to us that your fantasies are not lies. We are waiting.