About the Holodomor 1933 of the Year and the 2014 Genocide of the Year

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About the Holodomor 1933 of the Year and the 2014 Genocide of the Year21.11. Chairman of the SBU Valentin Nalyvaichenko, speaking before the cadets of the National Academy of the SBU, said that the Security Service would propose criminalizing the denial of the 1932-1933 Holodomor as a genocide against the Ukrainian people. The idea is not new. To imprison for denying the Holodomor, as genocide was wanted even under Yushchenko. The law of Ukraine on 28.11.2006 recognizes the Holodomor as genocide, but if someone does not agree with this, then he is not threatened with responsibility. Neither administrative nor criminal.

Nalyvaychenko wants to finish what did not work for Yushchenko. You do not recognize the Holodomor as genocide - behind bars.

What was the Holodomor?

This is a universal, apocalyptic catastrophe, which took away the lives of millions of people who have pulled out the last piece of food. But in no case can the Holodomor be considered a genocide of the Ukrainian people. The political circumstances of that time were determined by the fact that the Soviet authorities were resolving the main issue: the power in the countryside. For this, it was necessary to destroy everyone who could manage their own lives on their own, to provide for themselves. The blocking of agricultural areas in Ukraine took place everywhere in the villages where people who were economically independent of Soviet power lived.

All this does not detract from the Holodomor hypertragic. It really was a terrible massacre. But killed not by ethnic principles. According to the class.

Yes, during the Holodomor, most Ukrainians died in the ethnic dimension. And it is natural, because the Ukrainians constituted the majority of the population of our country. But does this mean that the purpose of the Holodomor was to kill just ethnic Ukrainians? What was ethnic cleansing? No, does not mean.

Without paying any attention to the nationality, the NKVD food detachments killed all independent peasants. To understand this is elementary. You do not want in collective farms, you do not like the Soviet government? Harvest surrender!

Therefore, the barriers were first blocked, and then the Czechs, for example, compactly living in the villages of Bohemka and Novoselovka of the Nikolaev region, were completely extinct from hunger. There were many Czech villages extinct from the Holodomor on the territory of the Zhytomyr region.

Famine killed the Poles - for example, in the villages of the village Sharovechka, Matskovtsy, Grechanyaya, Zazheche Khmelnitsky region. And, of course, let's not forget about the Russians, who lived on the territories of the East of Ukraine, and died in the Holodomor.

What Yushchenko and Poroshenko are trying to present the Holodomor?

The genocide of the Ukrainian people. Destruction of the ethnic group.

Why do they do that?

This is part of state propaganda, designed to zombie: ethnic Ukrainians wanted to kill and kill. This propaganda is built on a cynical and deceitful premise - the tragedy of the Holodomor, supposedly, should unite ethnic Ukrainians.

So I am against it. Against building unity on a lie. For the recognition of the ethnic character of the Holodomor - a terrible tragedy - is a crime against historical memory.

On a national basis, they are trying to divide the dead, and the dead, who will not protect themselves. I believe that they were killed not by ethnic, but by class principle.

The legal aspect of why the Holodomor is not genocide

The UN Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide of December 9 of 1948 states: In this Convention, genocide means the following acts committed with the intention to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group as such :

a) killing members of such a group;

b) causing serious bodily harm or mental impairment to members of such a group;

c) the deliberate creation for any group of such living conditions, which are designed for its full or partial physical destruction.

In other words, if the Holodomor 1932-1933 were defined not as a genocide of the Ukrainian people, only on the grounds that there were a majority of ethnic Ukrainians among the dead, but as a genocide of the peoples living in Ukraine, it would be much harder for me to object.

But the problem is much more complicated. Once again I will quote the definition of the UN Convention: “Genocide means the following actions committed with the intention to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group as such”.

In other words, it is necessary to prove the intention of Stalin and his people to organize the Holodomor in Ukraine according to the ethnic principle. That is, on the basis of closed archives, it is legally documented to establish that Stalin deliberately set and achieved the goal of killing not just people who are independent from the authorities in Ukraine, but ethnic Ukrainians.

I perfectly understand the small chances that such evidence can be found in the archives. Maybe they are not, or they were destroyed. But as long as Stalin’s intention to destroy the ethnic Ukrainians by the Holodomor has not been documented legally, the term genocide should be abandoned. Or - to demand a change in the UN Convention, deleting the word "intention" from there.

In two other cases, there is legally reliable evidence of the genocide.

Adolf Hitler's Work

20 January 1942 on Fr. Wannsee near Berlin at Am Großen Wannsee, d. 56-58, an official meeting of representatives of ministries and branches of power of Nazi Germany was held. Following this meeting, the official and legitimate authorities of the country adopted a legally impeccable, binding document: the final protocol.

He envisaged a final solution to the Jewish question, including the eviction of Jews and hard labor. This document is preserved. A copy of Luther, SS brigadeführer and participant of the Wannsee Conference was found in 1947 in the archive of the German Foreign Ministry.

So, there was a legally impeccable decision about the mass murder of Jews. It was accepted by the lawful authorities of Germany. Preserved the document. This is the proven intention, the proven intent to destroy the Jews on an ethnic basis.

The work of Petro Poroshenko

Poroshenko signed a decree on the decision of the National Security Council from 4.11. "On urgent measures to stabilize the socio-economic situation in the Donetsk and Lugansk regions." This document “instructs the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, together with the Ministry of Justice, to inform the Secretary General of the Council of Europe about the measures taken by Ukraine in certain territories in the area of ​​the ATO that deviate from the country's international obligations in the field of human rights and freedoms, but necessary in connection with the existing danger to the Ukrainian nation”.

Main among the measures "retreating from the country's international obligations in the field of human rights and freedoms" is the deprivation of pensions and social benefits of citizens of Ukraine living in the territories not controlled by Kiev in Donetsk and Lugansk regions. This is provided for by the UN Convention. Not ethnic, but social genocide: premeditated creation for any group of such living conditions that are designed for its full or partial physical destruction;

This is a deliberate creation of life conditions for a group of Donetsk and Lugansk pensioners, which are designed for their full or partial physical destruction. In my opinion, Poroshenko violated the Constitution, which Art. 24 guarantees equality of citizens of Ukraine before the law, as well as Art. 46., Guaranteeing the right to security in old age. All these pensioners are citizens of Ukraine, and the Constitution clearly speaks of their rights.

In my opinion, Poroshenko violated the law “On the protection of human rights and freedoms that were immensely legalized for the number of hours of occupation of the territory of Ukraine”, adopted under Turchinov. Even this extrajudicial act recognizes that “the time of the territory of Ukraine is paid off by the territory of Ukraine, by a part of the territory of Ukraine, the laws of the Constitution are to be expanded”.

It turns out that the laws of Ukraine ceased to apply to pensioners of Donbass. Two publications finally convinced me of the genocidal nature of the actions.

Irina Vedernikova quoted Poroshenko’s words about the residents of Donetsk and Lugansk regions in the Mirror of the Week issue: “we will have work - they don’t, we will have pensions, they don’t, we take care of children, pensioners will –– they don’t “Our children will go to schools and kindergartens — they will be in basements with them.”

Began to understand. It turns out that this is his speech at the Opera Theater in Odessa 23 October 2014. And here I find a publication on Victoria Syumar's website “Stop Fake”

http://www.stopfake.org/lozh-petr-poroshenko-poobeshhal-chto-deti-donbassa-budut-sidet-v-podvalah/

The site is supposedly devoted to the fight against untruthful information about events in Ukraine. In fact - this otmazyvanie words Poroshenko. See how they manipulate doing for the Russian-speaking reader:

“Poroshenko talks about the current situation in the Donbass, and not about a possible situation in the future. Therefore, Channel One not only took the words out of context, but also translated them inaccurately. Poroshenko speaks in Ukrainian “We have Robot bude - they don't have. We will have pensions, they won’t have any” (that is, not now). Therefore, when translated into Russian, it would be incorrect to translate this sentence as “We will have pensions, they will not have them” (in this case, in the Ukrainian version it would be “We will have pensions, they will not have any”), since due to such manipulation it can really create an erroneous impression that the president is talking about the future tense - that the residents of Donbass allegedly will not have pensions in the future.”

Here lies all, from the first to the last word.

“We will have pensions, they don’t have” is not translated, as Syumar suggests, “that is, not now.” There is no "that is." "Not much" means - no, it will not. If Poroshenko would like to say, “we will have pensions, but they don’t have them now,” he would have said in Ukrainian: “we will have pensions - they don’t, ZARAZ”. And about the future Poroshenko does not speak. In Ukrainian, the “future” is “Maybutn.”

You see, the people of Syumar are already beginning to otmzyvat Poroshenko's genocide.
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  1. +8
    24 November 2014 14: 12
    We, in the Russian Federation, also have an interesting article of the Criminal Code. It seems "Denial of the Holocaust". For public speaking with such a statement, you can receive a fine and be imprisoned. This is apparently the work of the Jews, of whom there are many in the State Duma.
    1. +2
      24 November 2014 14: 28
      21.11. Chairman of the SBU Valentin Nalyvaichenko, speaking to cadets of the National Academy of SBU, said that the Security Service would propose criminalizing the denial of the Holodomor of 1932-1933 as the genocide of the Ukrainian people. The idea is not new.

      . The spiritual leader of Iran in the city of Qum Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi emphasized that the future generation should know about the historical lies of the Holocaust. At a meeting with a group of students in the city of Kum Ayatollah, Makarem Shirazi emphasized that school textbooks should contain explanations of the Holocaust myth and noted that the West turned Jewish into a forbidden topic, but it is necessary to disseminate scientific research on this historical deception to tear the false curtain of the ban. Ayatollah Makarem Shirazi noted that the Holocaust is a historical lie that the Zionists abuse in their favor. Iranian radio
      Physical disgust. The Iranian president, known for his denial of the Holocaust myth, said on Iranian television that he did not care if he became “banned” in Western countries. It will even be better for him personally if he does not see the faces of Western politicians. "I tell you, I do not want to look into their eyes even." The Iranian president does not have a better opinion of the inner world of these individuals. He stated that he had previously thought that among them there were at least a few smart ones, but he was mistaken. “Unfortunately, I have to admit: looking for smart politicians in the West is a pointless exercise,” said Ahmadi-Nejad. Reuters
      http://modernlib.ru/books/graf_yurgen/mif_o_holokoste/
    2. +19
      24 November 2014 14: 34
      I don’t deny the fact of the Holocaust ...... But when they talk about it, they always somehow shade the genocide of the Slavs (Russians, Serbs, Poles .....) who were killed, many more Jews were burned. It doesn't look good.
      1. +1
        24 November 2014 15: 11
        Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
        I don’t deny the fact of the Holocaust ...

        This is not about denying the fact of the "Holocaust" but about the number of victims for which Germany paid Israel.
        http://modernlib.ru/books/graf_yurgen/mif_o_holokoste/
      2. +3
        24 November 2014 15: 24
        Then it turns out interesting! Genocide is the destruction of one nation by another, an example is the massacre of Armenians by the Young Turks. Well, in the leadership of the NKVD there were 90% of Jews. According to this logic, now Ukrainians should give an answer? laughing
        1. 0
          24 November 2014 15: 36
          Quote: Reinhard
          Well, the leadership of the NKVD was 90% of Jews

          now everything falls into place
          I’m talking about a Ukrainian plane shot down over the Black Sea
        2. erg
          +2
          24 November 2014 16: 38
          Actually, the NKVD in those years didn’t even exist or more precisely (the republican NKVD were liquidated). The All-Union NKVD was created in 1934. There were OGPU and other bodies (including military units, police) of state security reporting directly to the Council of People's Commissars. But at the same time, SNK did not carry out direct management, but supervising functions, coordinating the activities of territorial divisions. Directly on the ground, the security agencies were subordinate to the local, republican authorities, which could use them at their own discretion, not requesting permission from the center, but only informing it. Therefore, all excesses in the activities of security agencies in Ukraine during the famine are, first of all, the fault of the leadership of the Ukrainian SSR.
        3. -1
          24 November 2014 18: 43
          Well, in the leadership of the NKVD there were 90% of Jews. By this ......
          The Slavs living in the territories that once belonged to the Khazar Kaganate, here they were destroyed by the comrades-in-arms of Trotsky Leiba Davydovich [Bronstein]
      3. sertar
        0
        24 November 2014 20: 24
        But if you look in proportions, how many Jews lived and how many of them were killed there, then the proportion will show that there was a Holocaust.
      4. dubrovsky
        0
        26 November 2014 21: 28
        Jews are not enough, and they ask for more !!!
    3. +4
      24 November 2014 14: 45
      We, in the Russian Federation, also have an interesting article of the Criminal Code. It seems "Holocaust denial"
      There is NO such article

      Laws against Holocaust denial are enacted in the following countries:
      Austria - deprivation of liberty for a period of 1 to 10 years (in especially dangerous cases, up to twenty years).
      Belgium - imprisonment up to 1 year and a fine of up to 5000 francs. In the event of a repeated charge, the accused party may be deprived of civil rights in accordance with article 33 of the Belgian Penal Code.
      Hungary - up to 3 years in prison.
      Germany-imprisonment of up to 5 years or a fine.
      Israel up to 5 years in prison.
      Canada
      Lithuania
      Liechtenstein-imprisonment of up to 2 years.
      Luxembourg
      Poland
      Portugal-imprisonment for up to 5 years.
      Romania
      Slovenia
      France
      Czech Republic
      Switzerland
      On March 30, 2010, the Russian State Duma introduced a bill on liability for “approval or denial of the Nazi crimes established by the Nuremberg Tribunal’s verdict against the peace and security of mankind committed publicly”. It is proposed to supplement the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation with the article “Rehabilitation of Nazism”:
      “The approval or denial of the Nazi crimes established by the judgment of the Nuremberg Tribunal against the peace and security of mankind, committed in public, shall be punishable by a fine of up to 300 thousand rubles. or imprisonment for up to three years ”
      The same acts committed by a person using his official position or using the media, in accordance with the bill, are punishable by a fine in the amount of 100 thousand to 500 thousand rubles or by imprisonment for up to five years “with the deprivation of the right to occupy certain positions or to engage certain activities for up to three years ”
      The bill caused a mixed reaction among historians and human rights activists, there are fears that the application of the law could damage historical research and lead to judicial arbitrariness in connection with vague wordings.
    4. +1
      24 November 2014 16: 17
      Quote: MuadDib
      We, in the Russian Federation, also have an interesting article of the Criminal Code. It seems "Denial of the Holocaust". For public speaking with such a statement, you can receive a fine and be imprisoned. This is apparently the work of the Jews, of whom there are many in the State Duma.

      Do not compare horseradish with a finger! The Holocaust is internationally recognized as a crime, and the Holocaust has been sucked out of the thumb by the "great Ukrainians"!
    5. +2
      24 November 2014 16: 26
      The authorities in Ukraine want to show that the Ukrainians were the most oppressed in the USSR, which is not true, but just propaganda fabrications of manual Ukrainian media.
    6. +1
      24 November 2014 17: 19
      we don’t have such an article, we are a civilized country
      this is in europe
    7. +1
      24 November 2014 18: 11
      Quote: MuadDib
      We, in the Russian Federation, also have an interesting article of the Criminal Code. It seems "Denial of the Holocaust".

      I wonder if they ask me on the street, “Do you recognize the Holocaust?”, And in response I ask “What is this?”, Will they jail me or just be fined? The word Holocaust does not mean anything to me (let's say), let the same Criminal Code clearly define what exactly is meant. And that too to hell can be fitted under this concept.
      1. 0
        25 November 2014 06: 28
        Ignorance of the law is not an excuse. And I apologize. I misled the readers. There is article 354 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation - the rehabilitation of Nazism.
        1. 0
          25 November 2014 21: 00
          Quote: MuadDib
          Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.

          I know the law! I do not know what this law is about. Do you feel the difference? I didn't say "deny", I just asked "guys, what are you talking about at all ???" Where is the ignorance of the law? There is ignorance of history (well, or its interpretation). For what to plant ???
  2. +15
    24 November 2014 14: 17
    Few people know that in the early 30s of the 20th century a tragedy occurred in the United States, comparable in size to similar events in the USSR. In 1932, during the "reform of agricultural production relations" in the United States, 7,4 million people died of starvation.
    1. +8
      24 November 2014 14: 42
      So for sure ... from half a year ago there was a similar topic and I gave similar figures ............ Grain was drowned from ships in the sea ......... This and called capitalism! Its essence! And no one will convince me that he is more humane than socialism! (Yes ... this photo is from the USA during the Great Depression ... not Ukraine at all)
      1. -3
        24 November 2014 15: 26
        Yes, they slipped such photos in bulk! That is the Volga region. then the states!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. +2
      24 November 2014 15: 37
      Quote: pomegranate
      Few people know that in the early 30s of the 20th century in the USA ...

      I’ll tell you more, unfortunately this regularly happened, CX was extremely dependent on the weather, and then, in principle, there were problems with the storage of food
  3. +5
    24 November 2014 14: 18
    As always, a gross distortion is being made with the fact that the famine was only in Ukraine and applied only to ethnic Ukrainians. But what about wagons with bread starving the Volga? And the extermination by hunger of the Cossacks on the Don?
    1. +1
      24 November 2014 15: 07
      And this does not concern the world community and the progressive West. No one will remember about twenty-seven million Soviet citizens who died in the Second World War. Here you can see how some Germans relate to this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1iMb9_mfuAk&list=PLsqfFQP38KmxQGGg73KDGldlaLxt-F
      HPQ
    2. +1
      24 November 2014 15: 27
      That's it! And in Kazakhstan, what? Have a tasty meal? am
    3. 0
      24 November 2014 17: 27
      What is now there are no other important issues in Ukraine than to launch this hackneyed record.
  4. +4
    24 November 2014 14: 20
    My great-grandfather did not want to join the collective farm because he was seriously wounded in the First World War and did not want to be a burden for the collective farm. They came to dispossess him. And he hid the grain in a country toilet of the "outhouse" type. The Chekists ask the youngest child: "Where is the harvest?" And he answers: "In the toilet." The Chekists swore and left. They lived hard at that time, but somehow there was not even a thought that this was due to the fact that they lived in Ukraine.
  5. +1
    24 November 2014 14: 22
    Nobody even wants to think, not to return everything to their channel, I’m not even talking about restoring relations with our closest (real) neighbors, but just thinking about the future of our country. All are only occupied with insanity. After all, they have not created anything in their life. Only use the Soviet past. That's a madhouse. Another word for this has not yet been invented.
  6. +4
    24 November 2014 14: 24
    They are worn with the Holodomor as a written case, then the whole country was starving, the accident in Chernobyl can also be interpreted by virtue of imagination, documentary evidence is useless.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  8. +3
    24 November 2014 14: 28
    ! I have no words! Speculation on the dead! Apparently no one died of starvation at the parasail!
    No one exploits the famine in the Volga and Don regions for the sake of their ambitions. For people, this is a tragedy!
    A cursed country that has forgotten its true history and heroes, killing its citizens,
    brought scum to power! Ukraine is no more! There was a shameful dill!
  9. +9
    24 November 2014 14: 29
    It should be a shame to use the tragedy of the entire Soviet people for their narrowly political, base goals ............................. I do not want to seem heartless and somehow justify the surplus appraisal, but we must pay tribute that the last bread was not taken from the peasants so that they could buy yachts and houses on the Cote d'Azur .... all the proceeds from the sale of bread abroad went to the purchase of machinery and equipment. .in the industrialization of a backward, peasant, destroyed civil war and intervention (By the way, 14 countries destroyed and robbed our country .... they forgot the same thing)!
    1. dmb
      +7
      24 November 2014 14: 57
      And do not be them, in the sense of heartless. But it probably follows logical. And the logic is as follows. Since 1914, there was a war in the country, and the king-father introduced the surplus appropriation system. Are there ways to create a military economy solely by appeals and slogans? I do not know them in any country that is really at war on its territory. When they begin to remember together the "great-grandfathers" who suffered from the "sworn Bolsheviks" I want to ask a question, but where did the great-grandfathers start? As a rule, by pulling out furniture and a gramophone from a landlord's estate and a thresher belonging to a master. It is unlikely that the great-grandchildren want to return all this to the descendants of the master. When the Soviet government, having given land, demanded in return to support it with bread, the great-grandfathers began to rip open the bellies of its representatives, for which they were then (and not always) put up against the wall by the "bloody Chekists". I am writing all this not so much to you dear Igor as to the fornicator-author. He, like any political analyst, does not bother with objectivity and reduces all problems to the thesis: "We will find evidence, we will condemn". Stalin has something to reproach for, but to ascribe to him the deliberate destruction of his own population from not doing figs is the height of stupidity.
      1. +1
        24 November 2014 16: 37
        I add dear ones, regarding the bread - the USA and other Europioids refused to accept from the Soviets in payment for machines, technologies, steam locomotives, etc. everything except gold and grain! Industrialization was vital in the shortest possible time!
        Indeed, at first the village was asked to give or exchange part of the bread.
      2. 0
        24 November 2014 18: 44
        Quote: dmb
        how much fornication-author.

        The author was a "respected journalist" on TV during the times of Yushchenko and the orange "revolution" Then, after the "victory" he left TV (or did they?) Did not receive any special cookies, and immediately became "objective" ie he began to write critical articles. And now, apparently, it is changing course and adapting.
  10. +7
    24 November 2014 14: 30
    I repeat:
    In those years, the country (USSR) needed machine tools, machinery, equipment, and the country was ready to buy them from the West for real gold. However, "for some reason" the West refused to accept gold as payment and demanded grain ... There was a poor harvest in the country ... It is also significant that when it became clear that the USSR had not abandoned industrialization, the West became a payment. " suddenly "take gold ...
    Dill loves to compare the events in the Donbass with Chechnya ... therefore, it will be appropriate to recall that Russia did not stop paying pensions during the Chechen war.
  11. SamSeBse
    +8
    24 November 2014 14: 31
    Yeah. Unfortunate tortured in the Evil Empire lol
  12. -2
    24 November 2014 14: 33
    "Destruction of ethnos"
    Was he an ethnos ?! "Mother Polka Batko Nimets Sin is a pure Ukrainian" ....
    1. 0
      24 November 2014 18: 58
      What's wrong?! Digging in "ethnos" - zero sense ?!
  13. +1
    24 November 2014 14: 33
    This is the law for. People who know are well aware that no one has starved anyone, this situation has developed in the country because of the golden blockade.
    1. 0
      24 November 2014 18: 21
      Mareman Vasilich (2) RU Today, 14:33

      This is the law for. People who know are well aware that no one has starved anyone, this situation has developed in the country because of the golden blockade.
      By itself, nothing happens just like that, and since it happened, someone needed it. Everyone forgot about Trotsky and his ilk. There was a famine, but great Ukrainian politicians try to give the Russians the form of starving Ukrainians and thereby create a foundation of hatred for Russia
  14. +4
    24 November 2014 14: 41
    The very name of the Holodomor is the brainchild of Svidomo. There was no Holodomor, there was a large crop failure that spread throughout a significant part of the country, right up to Kazakhstan, covering, respectively, geography and the central part of Russia. If you recall the history, hunger was in Russia repeatedly and the masses of people died, regardless of nationality, there is no direction, on the contrary there is not even a class, but a social slice-peasants, those who live and feed at the expense of the land. In cities they did not die never, except for revolution and epidemics. This is a tragedy and you should not stick it out, like an allegedly planned operation against anyone. As you know, fists were fought not by executions, but by eviction to other places, where, by the way, other people lived completely voluntarily. For example, I was born and lived in Yakutia, a place of exile for many, but for Yakuts this is just a habitat. Everything is relative. None of those then were rulers, to kill those who could still be useful, albeit in another region. An example of this is the Essenians and Bandera, who have survived to this day, whose hands are in the blood to their shoulders. The time of the Holodomor is time to end, sin is a parasite on grief and death.
  15. GUS
    +4
    24 November 2014 14: 49
    And who in general put this word "Holodomor" into circulation? There was famine, a terrible famine throughout the country. And why is the deceased Ukrainian a victim, but the Belarusian, Russian, Tatar, Cossack who died on the same day. Who and when? The Armenians are still forced to prove that the Turks destroyed them, but they are in no hurry to believe them. And here on you, genocide. All this to the fact that more often it is necessary to spit on the "opinion of the world community", we won't be good anyway.
  16. +2
    24 November 2014 15: 11
    I will quote the wonderful, unfortunately late Internet author Stanislav Georgievich Pokrovsky about the "Holodomor" _ "Author: Stanislav Pokrovsky
    Date: 26.05.06 01: 54

    Horst wrote:

    > "The communists are not to blame, it's us, the people - shit ..." (c)

    Who is against it?

    By the way, the localization of undersowing and, accordingly, the Holodomor coincided with the zone of the widest spread of "green" banditry during the civil war.

    There is a character in the history of the civil war in Ukraine named Volokh.

    *** Volokh supported himself like peasant rebels and hated intellectual officers. He put on the Gaidam strike and social protest. Anti-Semitism was a component of the ideology of the chieftain. No wonder his Haidamaks were the organizers of the infamous pro-Proskuro massacre. ***

    *** Raising a red flag in the central square of Lubar, Volokh goes to the army headquarters to arrest Petlyura. But he left the town one hour before the rebellion towards the Polish border. Nevertheless, Volokh manages to capture part of the treasury of the army and the republic, which Petliura did not manage to take out. Volokh defeated the guard hundreds of headquarters, some of whose fighters went over to the side of the rebels. ***

    *** Volokh, calling on his rebels to fight against the “treacherous Bolsheviks,” leads them to Zhytomyr to “fight the Reds”. Unable to seize Zhytomyr, Volokh withdraws his troops to the Cherkasy region. In January 1920, he was already trying to return under the banner of Petliura. But this time, the republican leaders categorically refused Volokh, saying that they consider him only as an enemy and a traitor. ***

    *** In 1923-1925 Volokh became the head of the reception room of the chairman of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee G. Petrovsky. Volokh manages to gain the trust of his superiors, he is entrusted with responsible tasks. It was the heyday of “Ukrainization”, when yesterday’s enemies: M. Grushevsky, S. Efremov and Yu. Tklyunnik worked for the “Soviets”. Volokh was aware of all the secrets of power, and it seemed that his tenacious hand was about to grab the “tidbit” and he would sit somewhere in executive committees or regional committees. ****

    And who organized the Ukrainian peasantry into collective farms that they hated?

    *** In 1928-1930, Volokh took an active part in the campaign of grain procurement and collectivization, by force forcing peasants to join collective farms. The former gangster is elected secretary of the party, a member of the bureau of the primary party organization. ***

    Here is the type of the Ukrainian cadre elite with which Ukraine came to the famine. And the end of the famine and the return of Ukrainian villagers to normal labor surprisingly coincided with the arrest of Ukrainian national cadres. In the spring of 1933, our character Volokh was also arrested.
    I suspect that this is precisely why the Ukrainians did not have evil at Stalin for the Holodomor. They knew who was to blame for the famine, and who saved them from such superiors. However, Horst is right. All this riffraff, who betrayed 10 times, mercilessly killing her competitors, leading robberies, pogroms, basically had party cards for the Communist Party of Ukraine at the beginning of the Holodomor.


    However, those whom these "communists" brought to the Holodomor were not much better.

    *** At this time, peasants destroy the railways, twisting the rails into a ball with the help of carts of oxen. Entire areas were plundered not only by military [122] echelons, but also by passenger trains. This was the beginning of the village’s war against the city. *** (this is about 1919)

    Well, after such a profitable practice, who will plow and sow? - This is kind of zapadlo ... "How everything is repeated.
  17. calocha
    0
    24 November 2014 15: 18
    Part of the blame of the human pestilence of Belarusians, Russians, Ukrainians and other nationalities lies and ... on the WEST! J.V. Stalin in 30 declared that we need to catch up and overtake the Western countries, otherwise we WILL NOT! The course was taken on industrialization! They bought the West ... not gold, not platinum, but the West wanted it - GRAIN! Here the grain went there! Another HARVEST was imposed, which was several years in a row !!! all raw and boiled "! ....
  18. +2
    24 November 2014 15: 24
    And why the starving people do not remember that their current owners, the Yankees and Saxons, in those years of poor harvest, sold grain to Russia, only exclusively for gold, and even then in portions. Now shouting at the owner, like they can’t, is forbidden by Svidomo! am
  19. +1
    24 November 2014 15: 24
    Everyone has it - their own shirt is closer to the body. Greeks accuse Turks of genocide and vice versa, Jews - Germans and Ukrainians, but do not notice Turks, Armenians or Greeks. The Ukrainians, respectively, are Poles and everyone else, not noticing anyone else. It is just right for the Russians to submit claims to the Mongols, Tatars, Poles, Germans, and of course someone else ... Like in a movie - "... no one is to blame, but everyone's muzzles are broken ..."
  20. +1
    24 November 2014 15: 33
    the funny thing is that the famine was in Galicia, I wonder who organized it there? !!!
  21. 0
    24 November 2014 15: 41
    Quote: FREGATENKAPITAN
    It should be a shame to use the tragedy of the entire Soviet people for their narrowly political, base goals ............................. I do not want to seem heartless and somehow justify the surplus appraisal, but we must pay tribute that the last bread was not taken from the peasants so that they could buy yachts and houses on the Cote d'Azur .... all the proceeds from the sale of bread abroad went to the purchase of machinery and equipment. .in the industrialization of a backward, peasant, destroyed civil war and intervention (By the way, 14 countries destroyed and robbed our country .... they forgot the same thing)!

    Well done! And then here everyone thinks that the Holodomor was settled by evil stumbling, and not as the inevitability of that moment! Now it’s like the 21st century, we thought that the peoples were literate, educated, and it turned out like in Hohland. And the same economic blockade of Donbass and Lugansk IS THE SAME BUT THE THINKED HUNDRED! (because he has no economic justification and he’s just stupid and powerless revenge!)
  22. 0
    24 November 2014 16: 37
    just got to the place — the largest number of starvation victims was in uroin — I realized that they write from the center of the universe — parallel — where no seafarers rotate and the earth has no right. BSK is bullshit and not an article. Lying saloids are a great crop failure throughout the USSR ultimately reduced to artificial hunger in only one ukroin, and if there is still someone in other republics who died of hunger, ukrointsy also supported their seas by hunger. The famine is a lie in order to discredit both the USSR and the Russian people!
  23. 0
    24 November 2014 17: 02
    In one word, dill rewrite history, but in vain, the punishment of the Almighty is not far off. They don’t know the famine, but with the Euroassociation p ....
  24. The comment was deleted.
  25. +1
    24 November 2014 17: 39
    now, as a person born in the RSFSR, I can present Ukraine for empty robbery — we have empty store shelves, but it was normal in Ukraine, and for some reason 30% of Ukrainians were in power. Nalyvaychenko donkey ass, which proved again.
  26. The comment was deleted.
  27. Userpic
    0
    24 November 2014 17: 47


    On the graph, the red line shows the mortality of the entire population of the USSR in 1941-45. taking into account all military losses + loss of population from the hardships of war + natural mortality. Everything in ppm. How did this figure come about? I divided 26,6 million war losses into 4 years of war. It came out 6,65 million per year. 3,4 million people were added to this figure, who would have died in any case without war. This is 17 ppm of the pre-war number of the USSR in 200 million people. The sum of these figures is 10,05 million people, which, in terms of per million from 200 million, is 50 ppm for each year of the war of 1941-45. So, the mortality in ppm for the years of the Second World War, I found out.

    Now the only thing left is to put on these data (official data of the Central Statistical Bureau of the USSR, which also shows an increased mortality of 40,2 ppm in 1933), the figures of the ADH hypothesis on mortality of 70 ppm in 1933 ...

    What did we get as a result? That the mortality rate of 1933 according to the ADH hypothesis is higher by 20 ppm of the average annual mortality rate during the years of the war of 1941-45. That is, if we take this figure for the truth, it turns out that in 1933 the population of the USSR suffered an average loss of about the same as in a year and a half of World War II! And if we take into account that the famine in the USSR was not universal, but was local in nature, since it mainly affected Ukraine, the Volga region and the North Caucasus, it turns out that in these places the mortality rate should have reached 100-120 ppm!

    Do you still believe in 70 ppm (7 million) from ADH? Then turn on your common sense and remember the graves of the nearest cemetery: did you see a lot of those who died there in 1933? Personally, I do not recall anyone, although my village with the graves of my ancestors enters those places where famine allegedly raged. But those who died during the war of 1941-45. quite a bit of. Almost every family has losses. However, according to the official figures of the Russian Federation, then everything should be the other way around.

    http://burckina-faso.livejournal.com/808758.html
  28. +5
    24 November 2014 18: 53
    The Kiev historians consider the famine of 1932-33 to be the central event of Ukrainian history. They even came up with a name: “Holodomor”. Like, the Bolsheviks of Ukrainians starved.
    Every fourth Saturday of November, Ukraine marks a day of remembrance for its victims. This year the events are held on a special scale.
    The Holodomor as a historical phenomenon for nationalists is even more important than the Tripoli culture, when at the sunset of the Mesozoic era the first Ukrainians hunted the last dinosaurs. It is many times more important than the OUN-UPA, in the ranks of which Bandera fought along with the Nazis against the hated communists. Mazepa doesn't even want to talk about the hetman: who is he compared to the scale of the Holodomor?
  29. +3
    24 November 2014 18: 54
    about the famine
  30. +3
    24 November 2014 18: 55
    extension
  31. +3
    24 November 2014 18: 56
    and more about the famine
  32. +3
    24 November 2014 18: 56
    about the famine
  33. +3
    24 November 2014 18: 58
    continuation of the famine
  34. +3
    24 November 2014 18: 58
    continuation of the famine
  35. +3
    24 November 2014 18: 59
    and the last about the famine
  36. +2
    24 November 2014 20: 17
    We will increase ukraim to answer and prove something, how to throw beads in front of pigs.
  37. DPN
    0
    24 November 2014 20: 17
    Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
    Quote: pomegranate
    Few people know that in the early 30s of the 20th century in the USA ...

    I’ll tell you more, unfortunately this regularly happened, CX was extremely dependent on the weather, and then, in principle, there were problems with the storage of food


    IT IS SAID EVERYTHING TRUE THIS, MAY CONFIRM ANY GENERATION IN YEARS THROUGHOUT SANCTIONS SUCH THINGS HAPPENING. WHILE WITH THE WESTERN COUNTRIES, THE BREAD HERE AND HUNGER PAYED.
    Ukrainians Bombed the DNI and the LC if they don’t help anyone will have the same famine built by Kiev.
  38. 0
    24 November 2014 21: 58
    And why Ukrainians howl about their "Holodomor" yes it was, but what happened on the Volga was not the same, because there was cannibalism and we do not deny that they want compensation so because in power while as a rule there were local people in other matters and as of now. The question is, who is sitting in Kiev ???? Yes, the cannibals are the real ones which they themselves have now admitted to the authorities, why aren’t they asking them right now until they have dumped them over the hill, that they will again shout at the throat that the Russians are starving them ???? It hurts they love to distort the story.
  39. 0
    25 November 2014 01: 13
    I don’t have a link at hand, I read for a long time that during the Holodomor in Ukraine a positive population growth remained, just from almost half a million people it fell to about 100 thousand a year.
    but for the sake of objectivity, you still need to add the numbers of tractor growth in those years, if in the year 25 it was a piece of goods, in 30 it was hundreds of times, then after 33 years it reached the level of ... eleven thousand pieces. and they slaughtered the oxen - up, so as not to give it to the Bolsheviks, and if there is nothing to plow, then what to sow and what is then ???
  40. 0
    25 November 2014 01: 43
    Forced collectivization suggested that the villagers go to the collective farm in order to grow rutabaga and other rye on the state field. From 1917 they were invited to create common farms from their sole enterprises, and they were not just offered — the state subsidized the purchase of equipment — and a quarter of all Soviet peasants were collectivized without any coercion. But now everything has gone on a voluntary basis. We will not discuss now why such a decision was made, according to the logic of Stalin (and before him Trotsky and Preobrazhensky) it was absolutely necessary for carrying out a) mechanization p. x .; b) industrialization and c) weapons, without which a scoop is just a scoop, and not the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.

    In the overwhelming majority of cases, the cattle were not taken by the “Jewish commissars”, it was not clear where, but they were handed over to the collective farm with the equipment — simply put, they put the good in a neighboring barn. And this poet’s soul could not endure in any way, mass hysteria began. Most of the Selyuks flatly refused to take the cattle to the collective farm and preferred to slaughter it on the jelly. The same thing happened with the crops: instead of handing over stocks of wheat for an unjust state price, freedom-loving villagers hid everything to hell, trying to get as much as possible from the state collective farm field. A fun game of hide and seek began not in the thirties, but five years earlier, and by 1932 the state already knew that grain would not appear in a good way ......
    http://lurkmore.to/Голодомор
  41. 0
    25 November 2014 08: 46
    "Virgin Soil Upturned" by Sholokhov well describes this situation throughout Russia. Why was this film hidden on a shelf? Probably someone did not like it very much.
  42. 0
    25 November 2014 18: 43
    Well, I understand that the removal of grain in favor of the state was dictated by the issue of preserving the state itself. I admit, knowing the mentality of Ukrainians, that local bosses would curry favor with Moscow blocked the plan to hand over grain to the state at times and they did not give a damn about their people. But, maybe all the same it is necessary to admit the guilt of the state in the mass death of its citizens from starvation, which led to the actions of local authorities. And, if it doesn’t sound selfish, maybe it’s worth paying compensation to people?